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Righto money miners. 
Half the content in the episode 

2
00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:05,720
today is because of MMS move in 
the dirt. 

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00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,480
We got, we got, we're going to 
have a big yarn about all things

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00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,360
happening, category processing 
facilities and like categories, 

5
00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:15,120
a bunch of money. 
Sandfires put out a quarterly. 

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00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:17,760
I'm going to spin some shit 
about the Anglo coal sale 

7
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investment process and jade is 
going into diamonds. 

8
00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,440
Diamonds. 
Diamonds and Vault reported. 

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00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:24,800
To where we where we starting 
today? 

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00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:28,040
Guys, MMS, they're a diamond of 
a company, I can tell you that 

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00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,000
much. 
The diamond of open pits go in 

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00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:32,600
there. 
Oh, right where we start. 

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GC. 
Bit of bloody Sandfire. 

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Sandfire Dip. 
A company close to my heart. 

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Glad they recovered after I 
left. 

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No, they're doing just fine. 
So no, they they've put their 

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00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:49,160
quarterly report out today. 
So, so this quarter they had 

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00:00:49,160 --> 00:00:52,200
group copper equivalent 
production of around sort of 

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00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:56,320
38,000 tonnes. 
They reiterated guidance and 

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that production result was very 
much largely in line with 

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00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,600
expectations. 
So that was 27,000 tonnes of 

22
00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:04,879
copper, 21 1/2 thousand tonnes 
of zinc. 

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00:01:04,879 --> 00:01:07,400
So fairly similar to last 
quarter. 

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00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,280
We'll just splash up the chart. 
You can say what they've done 

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this quarter sort of compared 
against other quarters 

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production and costs and things 
like that. 

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So they did just shy of 24,000 
oz copper equivalent at MATSA, 

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which is a a slight increase on 
the previous quarter and 

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maintain their annualised 
processing right there at 3.6 

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00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,360
million tonnes per annum. 
And there was an improvement in 

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in copper and zinc recoveries, 
which saw that copper equivalent

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production go a little bit 
higher. 

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00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:33,680
Why is Mateo down quarter on 
quarter? 

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Just looking at that chart out 
there, I thought that was 

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ramping up. 
They did have a plan shut down 

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00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:39,400
there. 
Right, Yeah. 

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So there was a plan shut down 
and then they also had some 

38
00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:47,520
slightly lower head grades for 
that quarter as well. 

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00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:52,560
So they they did 14.3, 1000 
tonnes of copper equivalent at 

40
00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,680
Matthea as well. 
And just at Matsa, they also 

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received an environmental 
approval for a new tailings 

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00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,480
facility there. 
So construction of that is sort 

43
00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:05,640
of scheduled to commence Q4 FI 
25. 

44
00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,120
So that that's obviously driven 
by the 'cause they still said 

45
00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,480
they maintained their annual 
processing, right, but the grade

46
00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,440
obviously smashed them there. 
Yeah, Yeah, that's right. 

47
00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:16,840
So then cost performance was 
mixed. 

48
00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:21,120
So MATSA was a lot of these 
numbers, I'm speaking here AUS, 

49
00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:25,840
so $1.88 per pound versus $1.54 
last quarter. 

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00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:29,800
They sort of attribute that to 
sort of lower by product volumes

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00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:31,840
and prices. 
But then sort of looking forward

52
00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,880
beyond that sort of those 
treatment and refining charges 

53
00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:40,120
component of cost is likely to 
decline in the sort of second 

54
00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:44,120
half of the financial year is 
sort of benchmark rates reset 

55
00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,440
with sort of what's happening in
the market at the minute. 

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00:02:46,640 --> 00:02:51,680
Is that does the costs there for
copper and zinc mines work the 

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same as gold and copper? 
A lot of the zinc gets taken off

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00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,920
the cost like an. 
All of the product credit, yeah.

59
00:02:58,920 --> 00:03:00,280
Is that so that OK? 
Yeah. 

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00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:01,720
So that's not the, that's not 
the. 

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00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:05,000
IT works the same as someone 
that's selling a copper con for 

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00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,280
a gold project. 
I think so, it's sort of quite 

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00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:08,480
similar. 
Let's run with that. 

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00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:13,040
And then Mattheo slightly a 
slight improvement of the 

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00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,520
previous quarter down to $1.42 a
pound. 

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00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:21,040
But probably more importantly, 
you know, the the net debt has 

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00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,400
reduced again by you know, US 
$51 million down to US 

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00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:28,120
345,000,000. 
You know that was, you know, 

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00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,160
largely attributable to, you 
know, operating cash from mats 

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00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:38,080
of US 73 and Mattheo US 65 mil 
and they had group CapEx of US 

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00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:39,840
55. 
So you know, they're continuing,

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00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,840
you know, quarter on quarter to 
sort of daily lever this balance

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00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,200
sheet and you know, they could 
be in, you know, net cash pretty

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00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,720
soon if they continue at this 
rate. 

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00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:50,800
This is actually has to be one 
of our favourite waterfall 

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00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:52,280
charts. 
Look at this just sort of 

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00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,560
explaining from the start to the
end of the quarter and then 

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00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:59,600
providing that extra bit of 
detail even on the the the CapEx

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00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:01,720
components there. 
So no good work on the. 

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00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:03,200
Waterfall. 
I like chucking the dead in. 

81
00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,240
I like that. 
Yeah, no, it's just you can see 

82
00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,400
like where, where things are, 
you know, from start to finish 

83
00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,040
not rather than just an 
aggregated, you know, net debt 

84
00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:14,080
number or net cash number, 
whatever it might be. 

85
00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:15,000
Go, Sam. 
Fine, go. 

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00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:17,160
Sam, I do find I. 
Told them to do that one, yeah. 

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00:04:17,959 --> 00:04:19,880
They're quite, really 
interesting, like like look at, 

88
00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,120
look at the relative 
contributions of both Mateo and 

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00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,160
Matsa now. 
One of them they paid a lot of 

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00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,320
money for, the other one they 
did not pay very much money for 

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00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,520
at all. 
Like Even Stevens episode on 

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00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:33,960
Jerry on Seinfeld. 
Yeah, yeah, bit of it. 

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00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:37,200
I think Mataos turned out to be 
a Ripper acquisition. 

94
00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:41,280
I think, you know, like that's 
a, you know, in time, you know, 

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00:04:41,280 --> 00:04:43,840
it requires the elevated cup of 
price to sort of backfield the 

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00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:45,080
what they actually paid for 
that. 

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00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,200
Yeah. 
And it you know and that is 

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00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:49,280
reflecting in the in the PNL as 
well. 

99
00:04:49,280 --> 00:04:54,080
So they generated USA 121 
million of of underlying group 

100
00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:59,640
EBITDA for this quarter. 
So just for reference, FY24 

101
00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,960
group EBITDA was US 362. 
So there's about a, you know, 

102
00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:07,720
1/3 of that, you know, sand fire
currently kept about Aussie 4.8 

103
00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:11,720
billion. 
So adding on that net net debt 

104
00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,800
US 350 roughly is AV of about 
say 5.3 billion. 

105
00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,960
If you were to, I know this is 
very back of the envelope mass, 

106
00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,720
but if you annualise that Q1 
EBITDA, it's sort of is trading 

107
00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:27,640
on an AV to FY25 a but I'm 
multiple for of about 11 times. 

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00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:33,360
So it's still a little bit EXE, 
but we'll get to it in a minute.

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00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:37,440
But you know what else has 
happened for for Sapphire during

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00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,400
sort of past quarter, not a 
whole heap. 

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00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:44,440
I mean they've they updated the 
Mattheo resource and reserve 

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00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:50,400
they put out like a a Portugal 
expiration update on this Alva 

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Lade joint venture apology for 
pronounced that completely 

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00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:54,960
wrong. 
Now I reckon that spot. 

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00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,400
I like it. 
But interestingly they were 

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00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:01,000
added to the ASICS 100 during 
the quarter. 

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00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,240
So that was effective from the 
23rd of September. 

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00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:07,200
So they're up 15% since they've 
been added to the index. 

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00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,920
But they are year to date. 
I think at least last time I 

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00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:16,400
looked at least sort of 4445% 
which it's far you know 

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00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,320
outperformed. 
It's sort of other a sixes copy 

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00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:24,040
peers, not that there's much 
anyway, but yeah, no, that's 

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00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,360
pretty much the the update on 
sand Farm. 

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00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,440
You look at that, that, that, 
yeah, trading mode that you 

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00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,520
mentioned the LA 1111 times 
EBITDA, it's pretty, pretty 

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00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,240
full, right. 
That's pretty full like you 

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00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:37,200
would. 
I imagine management is going to

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00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,400
be pretty damn motivated to use 
their script while it's got a 

129
00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:44,000
got a bit of a bit of full value
in it as a result of going into 

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00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,240
the index, blah blah blah. 
Especially before a couple of 

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00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,720
prices go up if they do. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,880
Yeah, Aqua, you got the best of 
both sides there. 

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00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,800
Yeah, the the, the so they'll 
be, they'll be wanting to do a 

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00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:57,360
deal. 
I'm, I'm almost certain of that.

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00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:59,880
The challenge is just like. 
Everyone. 

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00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,520
Everyone wants to do a couple of
deals, but, you know, this is 

137
00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:05,680
this is the time when creative 
deal doers can come. 

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00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,040
Like, can really. 
Yeah, have a big impact. 

139
00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,440
You've got, you've got funding 
capability, you've got capital 

140
00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:14,960
market support like the, the 
deal makers need to get creative

141
00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:17,440
and, and find out where they can
maybe carve out even just like a

142
00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:19,960
minority interest in an 
established asset, things like 

143
00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,560
that, that just, you know, the 
other, the rest of the market 

144
00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,760
might not really say as as an 
option, like do funky deals like

145
00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,480
that and, and, and you'll get 
rewarded, especially with a 

146
00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,120
script like this. 
With something in lot the Kalari

147
00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,640
copper belt make the most sense,
like, you know, getting 

148
00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:35,880
something else because I've 
already got obviously same for 

149
00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,600
America, like they're obviously 
spread over vast across the 

150
00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:43,880
world at the moment and even 
coming back into Australia's 

151
00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,920
like you know, that's 4 
jurisdictions they're operating 

152
00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,600
in, but it sounds like pureplay 
copper companies have to. 

153
00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:52,440
Yeah, yeah. 
I think you don't want to be 

154
00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,640
stretched across too many time 
zones and I think even heard 

155
00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:56,720
Brendan Harris speak words for 
that effect and I called before,

156
00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:00,080
but yeah, that's right, 11 sale 
process is documented at the 

157
00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:00,640
moment. 
That's right. 

158
00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,480
In their backyard is the port, 
those Portuguese assets, JD. 

159
00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,040
Nevas Cuvo, yeah, that's the, 
that's the one I've sort of got 

160
00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:11,680
my eyes on in, in Portugal 
saying that Siberian pyrite belt

161
00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,200
there. 
There was sort of talk about Mac

162
00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,520
having a look at it. 
So we're not sort of breaking 

163
00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,800
ground on that conversation. 
The assets owned by the London 

164
00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,600
Mining Group. 
So I think that is 1, you know, 

165
00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:25,840
they'll have, they'll have run 
the ruler over in the past. 

166
00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,040
No idea where they're kind of at
with that. 

167
00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,600
But yeah, Brendan Harris of all 
people will know the, the value 

168
00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,000
of his company's script right 
now. 

169
00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:36,679
So very keen to see the other 
opportunities they're kind of 

170
00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,320
looking at. 
Dumb question with probably 

171
00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,760
smart answers coming. 
Are there any copper Atfs? 

172
00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:46,600
Yes. 
I'm sure they would be. 

173
00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:50,080
Which ones? 
What ticket for one of them is 

174
00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:55,000
wire I think. 
Do you think we will say more of

175
00:08:55,000 --> 00:09:00,760
them in the future if the 
thematic gets a bit of momentum 

176
00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:02,880
behind it? 
Probably. 

177
00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,040
I think you see the way you get 
the best multiples is if you're 

178
00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:10,800
the pure black copper listed on 
there NYSE all I guess like free

179
00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:12,840
no one can get multiple like 
Freeport. 

180
00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,400
It's just amazing. 
You know, southern copper's sort

181
00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,160
of similar so there's others 
too. 

182
00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:22,560
The. 
The ETF on the ASX is ticker Y. 

183
00:09:22,560 --> 00:09:27,320
It's one of those global X ones.
AUM right now is 265 odd million

184
00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:29,920
Aussie dollars. 
But what you'd really want to 

185
00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:34,160
see to conversations we've had 
in the past, Maddie is like AUS 

186
00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:38,960
one or a lot of US kind of money
goes and that attracts capital 

187
00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,720
from from all over. 
But I do agree with what what 

188
00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,520
Trev said report being one of 
those sort of stand out 

189
00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,560
examples. 
The pure plays have attracted a 

190
00:09:48,560 --> 00:09:51,960
lot of capital in the past. 
The generalists, those big the 

191
00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:54,760
big companies just pull in the 
money from the funds that look 

192
00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:56,680
at the first name on the list 
when they turn to mining. 

193
00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:58,880
Yeah, interesting. 
It'd be interesting to say if we

194
00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,680
say that'll get a bit of bloody 
mongrel behind copper. 

195
00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:08,000
Speaking of copper, but not 
copper for this mob, Anglo coal 

196
00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,880
asset divestment. 
Ding Ding Ding for me on this 

197
00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:12,800
one. 
Yeah. 

198
00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:17,200
Not technically a shareholder, 
but I have exposure. 

199
00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:21,120
Yeah. 
So there's, there's been a bit 

200
00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,160
of a bit of a straight talk 
conjecture about the sale 

201
00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,520
process of Anglo's Queensland 
coal portfolio, which is, yeah, 

202
00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,040
anchored by the Moran Bar and 
Governor mines. 

203
00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:31,040
Yeah, I probably just want to 
mention we're going to talk 

204
00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:33,240
about Anglo American and Yankel,
which Maddie and I are Ding, 

205
00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:34,840
Ding, Ding respectively on that 
one. 

206
00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,120
The the crux of the article in 
the Fin is that the bidders in 

207
00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:42,320
the in the sale process of of 
these assets have very little 

208
00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:46,800
information in relation to the 
status of Grosvenor where a fire

209
00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,640
earlier in the year saw that 
operation got shut down. 

210
00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:52,720
A bunch of CapEx is going to be 
required to remediate and get 

211
00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:54,960
that back online. 
It's going to take a long time. 

212
00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:59,520
It couldn't be the worst bloody 
time for a fire at a coal mine 

213
00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,600
in terms of when this happens in
BHP deal and like. 

214
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,560
Super, super average timing. 
Yeah. 

215
00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:07,560
Yeah. 
I'll, I'll read this bit out 

216
00:11:07,560 --> 00:11:09,480
here, it says. 
Sources said Anglo's data room 

217
00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,880
contains reams of documents on 
Grovner's geology and how coal 

218
00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,760
can be extracted. 
However, it's all theoretical, 

219
00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,400
and Anglo has carefully sidestep
making any implicit legal 

220
00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:20,920
guarantees to buyers. 
Since it could be years away 

221
00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,920
before the mine is again up and 
running. 

222
00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:27,120
I think that that revelation in 
itself sort of, it's not the end

223
00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,280
of it, like a, you know, a sale 
process like this. 

224
00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,120
Anglo's a pretty motivated 
seller given the circumstances. 

225
00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:35,840
And I think the, the 
practicality of, of bidding in a

226
00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,520
sale process like this is it's a
pretty simple solution. 

227
00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,400
You, you just structure 
contingent consideration around 

228
00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:45,200
the, the, the, the, into your 
deal mix that you, you provide 

229
00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:46,640
to Angler. 
You, you'll have some contingent

230
00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,360
consideration in relation to the
time it takes to get governor 

231
00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:51,240
back online and what the 
ultimate budget is. 

232
00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,440
And, and then you can have kind 
of kind of a scale accordingly. 

233
00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,120
And everyone wins in those 
circumstances. 

234
00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,800
And you have a alignment on the 
seller and the buyer as a result

235
00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:00,800
of that. 
Similar, similar to Woodlawn in 

236
00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,400
a way in terms of first 
production is payment. 

237
00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,360
Yeah, well, that's a. 
Deferred consideration, I'm 

238
00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:11,000
talking contingent like you. 
You tied again, deferred, yeah. 

239
00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,360
On an outcome happening. 
Yeah, contingent on first 

240
00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,080
production. 
Like, yeah, I mean, I would, I 

241
00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,120
would, you know, I don't have 
like a sliding scale and some 

242
00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:21,920
the variables on both the time 
it takes to get it back online 

243
00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:23,880
because that's a big impact on 
value. 

244
00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:26,120
Yeah, yeah. 
And also the amount it costs you

245
00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,240
to to get it back online too. 
Yeah, yeah. 

246
00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,600
But yeah, I mean, bankers can 
structure stuff around like 

247
00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,720
things like this all the time. 
It's not out of out of the 

248
00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:37,240
wheelhouse just from a sale 
process. 

249
00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:43,960
But you know, I, I, I think I 
want to talk about like the the 

250
00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:45,720
bidders that are in the mix 
here, because not all the 

251
00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:47,520
bidders in the mix are, are made
equal. 

252
00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,240
The bidders remaining according 
to a street talk are Yankel 

253
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:53,280
Peabody. 
I'm going to group the next 

254
00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,840
three together because they're 
kind of all affiliated and 

255
00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:59,960
resources Stanmore and 
Indonesia's with Jar Jar family.

256
00:12:59,960 --> 00:13:02,400
Not saying that wrong. 
Then there's an Indian 

257
00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:06,120
consortium led by Avid Sys Group
and of course Glencore. 

258
00:13:06,680 --> 00:13:10,040
So when I group the some of them
together, there's basic 5 

259
00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,880
independent bidders left, right.
The most motivated to pay top 

260
00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,560
dollar, I agree with Street Talk
is Yankel. 

261
00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:19,840
They've got a whopping $2 
billion in cash, no debt. 

262
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,000
They've signalled that they want
to bid on these assets and the 

263
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,960
parent company of Yankel be 
supportive of that. 

264
00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,520
They even turned off their 
dividend to be able to bid as 

265
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:30,520
much as possible in this sale 
process. 

266
00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,160
But there's just one catch Ferb 
approval. 

267
00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,520
Bingo. 
Recently, like we've seen Ferb 

268
00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,800
just just dragged their feet 
with approvals on, on minerals 

269
00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:43,200
projects that are, you know, 
sign boasted to be sold to, to 

270
00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,240
majority kind of Chinese 
entities. 

271
00:13:45,560 --> 00:13:48,520
And, and what you know, what 
they, what Ferb has done in 

272
00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:50,760
these situations is they just 
keep, they simply keep extending

273
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:52,960
by a month, they extend by 
another month, they extend by 

274
00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:54,880
another month. 
They don't definitively say we 

275
00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,280
don't approve, but it's just the
death by 1000 cuts off extending

276
00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,200
another month. 
It's it's in effect what they've

277
00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,720
they've done in the past when 
you know, it's stalemate and it 

278
00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,160
looks like they've done that 
again in relation to CZR 

279
00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,280
resources. 
It's been 10 months now and no, 

280
00:14:08,680 --> 00:14:12,560
no determination from Ferb yet, 
although other deals get Ferb 

281
00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:14,720
determination pretty quickly 
when there's no Chinese entities

282
00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:16,960
involved. 
And I think it's that timing 

283
00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:21,520
uncertainty which kills deals. 
And personally, I think it'd be 

284
00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:25,760
a pretty brave thing for an 
advisor to do to, to recommend 

285
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:30,400
Angler actually engage with the 
angle as as the preferred bidder

286
00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,960
in a sale process when without 
having certain clarity on how 

287
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,520
fair will determine the 
acquisition and how long it will

288
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:38,640
actually take to make that 
determination. 

289
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,800
So absent that certainty, I 
think for now we've got to put a

290
00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:43,080
line through. 
Yeah. 

291
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,280
And Cole and look at the rest of
the field there. 

292
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:53,120
Is can can you get any clarity 
on Ferb prior to going with you 

293
00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:54,760
and Carl? 
I don't know. 

294
00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,040
I think you you engage with Ferb
early and you can get some kind 

295
00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:01,120
of in principle guidance. 
But I think the reality of it, 

296
00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:04,600
yeah, I'm not an expert, but I 
think the reality of it is you 

297
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:06,920
don't actually get any 
determination and it's all 

298
00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:08,680
subject to change and blah, 
blah, blah, blah, blah. 

299
00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:13,720
So, yeah, as a result, I, I just
kind of think, you know, unless,

300
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,480
unless you had certainty on what
Fed would do, you can't, you 

301
00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:18,680
can't, like you can't advise 
that. 

302
00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:20,120
Yeah, they should be your 
preferred bidder, even if 

303
00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:22,600
they're willing to pay a billion
dollars more than the next 

304
00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:23,920
bidder. 
Yeah, yeah. 

305
00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:27,560
So I've heard that on the street
a bit that that is the obstacle.

306
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,080
That is the thing with Gann 
Carl, after it got hammered, it 

307
00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:34,080
has has recovered a bit since 
then, but it's like, yeah, that 

308
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,560
overhang and like because the 
cash hasn't gone anywhere. 

309
00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:38,480
Cash hasn't gone and there's 
other, there's other assets for 

310
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,400
sale like you got olive Downs, 
which is, yeah, like they could 

311
00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:44,880
bid on as well. 
But like for all intents and 

312
00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:46,520
purposes, Kestrel now too, by 
the way. 

313
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:53,480
So yeah, then then I want to 
talk about Glencore, right? 

314
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:57,560
They stand out in the rest of 
the field because I do hear that

315
00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:59,840
they're pretty motivated to pick
out these mines, but they'll be 

316
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:02,040
disciplined on on price. 
They're not. 

317
00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:04,040
They're Glencore after all. 
They're, you know, they're going

318
00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:06,880
to be pretty sensible. 
Word on the decline is that they

319
00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,800
won't pay any more than US $3 
billion for, for the mines 

320
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,560
given, you know, Glencoe's own 
trading multiple isn't sort of 

321
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,000
reflecting their, their 
intrinsic valuation. 

322
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,840
So, you know, they, they or 
their shareholders believe that,

323
00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:21,040
you know, it might be more 
creative for them to simply just

324
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,960
buy back their own stock instead
of actually spending 3 billion 

325
00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,440
bucks getting these. 
These new mines would otherwise 

326
00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:27,720
be a higher multiple if they 
paid more. 

327
00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,400
Because there's there's 
ordinarily back to the stage 

328
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,160
they're trading a bit above 
before when lot Tribeca went 

329
00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:37,000
activist on them. 
Are they that a bit of a RIP 

330
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,600
after that, but they're, you 
know, back down at 4-4 bucks 

331
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:41,800
now. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

332
00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:44,720
And Metcall prices have come 
down, they've get on the balance

333
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,320
sheet to acquire Oak Valley, 
which in time I think will be a 

334
00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:48,440
roofing acquisition. 
That one. 

335
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,520
The, the, the rest of the field 
I don't really have a tonne of 

336
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,600
insight on other than to say the
acquisition price is, is a 

337
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,440
pretty big bite size relative 
to, you know, the market caps of

338
00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:01,400
those other kind of listed 
entities in the field. 

339
00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,119
So like, you know, funding an 
acquisition is going to be a 

340
00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:08,480
tough task without a lot of debt
or, or using Anglo's balance 

341
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,079
sheet or bringing in a partner 
into the mix to sort of, you 

342
00:17:11,079 --> 00:17:12,440
know, have some sort of 
consortium funding. 

343
00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:14,560
All of those are possible 
outcomes by the way. 

344
00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:18,119
But you know, I think for now 
there's one more thing in this 

345
00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,119
IFR article I wanted to to bring
up. 

346
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,839
Firstly, the, the, the opening 
sentence in the article is it's 

347
00:17:23,839 --> 00:17:27,160
two weeks until Anglo American 
collects binding offers for its 

348
00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,480
Queensland called assets. 
And then the second last 

349
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,560
paragraph says the auction was a
direct result of BH PS 

350
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,280
unsuccessful hostile takeover 
approaches earlier this year. 

351
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,360
Of note, British takeover laws 
permit the big Australian to hit

352
00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:41,960
back with a fresh bid at the end
of November. 

353
00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:44,320
So just just contemplate this 
for a moment. 

354
00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,760
Final bids for this sale process
are due in two weeks and BHP is 

355
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,680
allowed to bid for Anglo again 
in four weeks. 

356
00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:56,320
Combine that with the FTS big 
scoop 2 weeks ago that Mike 

357
00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,200
Henry and his Chief Development 
Officer was spotted in South 

358
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,680
Africa and even met with Anglo's
second largest shareholder, the 

359
00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:03,840
South African state owned 
manager. 

360
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:08,520
PIC like as you can see here. 
Call me stupid, but if I if I 

361
00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,120
was running Anglo and I and I 
wanted to be as sensible as 

362
00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:13,720
possible and value creation or 
optimization. 

363
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,080
Like are you really in a rush to
wrap up the sale process on the 

364
00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,200
Queensland coal assets before 
BHP is statutorily allowed to 

365
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,760
bid again for the entire 
company? 

366
00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,520
Given the fact that they appear 
to be, you know, getting ready 

367
00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:28,400
to make another bid? 
It looks looks like that's what 

368
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:29,720
they're doing by going South 
Africa to me. 

369
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:34,960
Remember, BHP wanted Angler to 
keep the coal assets where, you 

370
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:36,400
know, they have pretty 
attractive synergies. 

371
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,520
BHP, they've got a bunch of rail
and port infrastructure and they

372
00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,240
can, you know, certainly kind of
achieve some like very real 

373
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,760
synergies via acquiring Anglos 
Queensland call assets. 

374
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:50,120
However, BHP at every 
opportunity has told the market 

375
00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:52,120
they're not participating in the
sale process, they're not going 

376
00:18:52,120 --> 00:18:54,920
to bid for these call assets and
they're not named to sort of, 

377
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,040
you know, still being in the 
data room or anything like that.

378
00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:01,280
But what if the sale process 
drags out for a few extra weeks 

379
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:05,360
to the point where BHP is 
allowed to bid for Anglo again? 

380
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:10,360
So that's November 29th then do 
you really sell those call 

381
00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:13,600
assets to any of those, you 
know, parties in the in the list

382
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:20,280
if you get an NB I/O from BHP on
November 29th and November 30th 

383
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,440
and it's a fair value and one of
the conditions is you keep the 

384
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,000
call because they're going to 
get synergies from. 

385
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:31,480
Are they trying to do this to 
for whatever reason to get BHP 

386
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,840
away? 
I think there's a well, a lot of

387
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:38,400
what Anglo strategy has been, 
has actually been like all of 

388
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,880
the things that BHP wanted them 
to do other than sell the coal. 

389
00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:43,840
So they're, you know, they are, 
they are, you know, divesting 

390
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:45,880
the platinum. 
They're looking for a strategic 

391
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:49,320
option for the diamonds that 
like, you know, the halted CapEx

392
00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:54,240
on wood Smith, which you know, 
like all of the other parts, all

393
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,440
the other things that you know, 
Anglo is doing is kind of in 

394
00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,720
line with the things that BHP 
wanted them to do conditionally 

395
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,880
on getting a deal over the line.
I just think like. 

396
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,680
Yeah, I think BHP is going to 
pay more for Anglo if those coal

397
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,400
assets are still in the 
portfolio versus divested. 

398
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:13,200
I don't think you're maximising 
value if your ultimate end game 

399
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:18,080
is selling to BHP by divesting 
them, you know, after a fire at 

400
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:19,960
Grosvenor. 
Like I just think you keep in 

401
00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,320
the BHP will pay more. 
But how much? 

402
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,560
Why do you put in towards the 
coal assets for BHP in contrast 

403
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:30,000
to the copper of Anglo? 
It's a it's a, it's 100% like 

404
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,120
like secondary. 
This is, it's about like, you 

405
00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:36,080
know, big juicy long life coal 
assets, but sorry, cop assets. 

406
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,960
But don't discount the 
phenomenal cash flow generation 

407
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,720
that is these like, you know, 
unbelievable coal mines as well.

408
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:47,400
And yeah, the like BHP is a 
funny one because everyone talks

409
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,880
about our BHP once, you know, 
cut like cut more copper in its 

410
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,000
portfolio, blah, blah, blah. 
Yeah, I know. 

411
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:54,920
And the Met call are going to be
it's like cash printers for a 

412
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:56,920
long time. 
Yeah, yeah. 

413
00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:01,400
I guess taking it as a set back,
you know, how strongly do you 

414
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:05,840
feel or rather how likely do you
think it is that BHP will on the

415
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:11,200
29th or or 30th of November make
another, you know have another 

416
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:17,520
crack at Anglo And but at a 
level that does say that that 

417
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,080
better value sort of attributed 
to the coal versus it being 

418
00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:22,920
divested to sort of someone 
else. 

419
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,920
I'm not sure I think like if you
read the FT article, they try 

420
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:30,360
and suggest that sources close 
to BHP say that, you know, BHP 

421
00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:33,560
won't actually make another move
until like Anglo has further 

422
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:35,440
simplified its portfolio. 
So it may be divested. 

423
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,680
It's it's, it's platinum 
business. 

424
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,000
BHP took issue with with Kumba 
as well, which is the the iron 

425
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,480
ore business there too. 
So like, there are parts that 

426
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,680
are attracted to BHP, parts that
aren't based on what Anglo is 

427
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,120
doing. 
But yeah, it looks like they're 

428
00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:52,680
coming back. 
You don't go to you don't fly to

429
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,280
South Africa with your chief 
development officer, meet with 

430
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,400
government officials and you 
know, the the state money 

431
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:04,760
manager unless you're pretty 
motivated to find a sensible 

432
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:06,240
path forward and do it the right
way this time. 

433
00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:08,960
But but wouldn't they? 
They could literally put forward

434
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,520
all the same previous 
conditions, just on a better 

435
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,800
ratio, couldn't they? 
For for an improved. 

436
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:16,320
Bid yeah. 
And I think it's like it's a 

437
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:17,920
combination of both things 
because they're going to have to

438
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,480
convince Angler shareholders as 
well. 

439
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:22,200
And part of that's like 
definitely valued. 

440
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,280
The other thing too is like 
Angler shareholders might get 

441
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:29,120
pretty disgruntled with the lack
of value uplift from a share 

442
00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:31,920
price perspective since their 
kind of gold a loan strategy. 

443
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,880
And it's like for Duncan, we've 
given you like six months. 

444
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,160
Like how long do we have to give
you before you like create some 

445
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,360
value here? 
Like we're net down since BH, 

446
00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:42,320
since before BHP bid like bid 
like what's going on? 

447
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:44,600
Copper prices up like. 
Yeah. 

448
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,800
So. 
I sort of agree with with most 

449
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,720
of what you said there Trevor, 
think it it all kind of makes 

450
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,040
makes sense. 
The one thing I just sort of add

451
00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:57,280
as kind of info for for money 
miners is Anglo sort of they're 

452
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,200
down 10% on you know looking 
back the last six months now 

453
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,520
kept at US 33 billion. 
Remember that in includes 

454
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,840
everything the stakes and the 
other businesses and all £33 

455
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:13,400
billion. 
So that is 65 billion Aussie and

456
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,040
if you're taking the US 3 
billion value of the coal 

457
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:20,480
assets, 4 1/2 billion sort of 
puts into context the the stake 

458
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,360
of what the market's valuing 
that at I guess post the the 

459
00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:27,520
growth and fire and whatnot, but
just interesting to kind of 

460
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:31,120
think about. 
Yeah, it's, I'd assume 

461
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,440
Australia's coal expert for this
sale process, Adam Batista's 

462
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:40,360
being consulted so far regarding
this sales process. 

463
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,040
Is there anything about CR 
insurance being engaged? 

464
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:45,720
I'd assume. 
I'd assume so. 

465
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:47,840
I think it's quite a sensible 
thing to do. 

466
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:53,560
Yeah, Yeah. 
I mean, yeah, like I imagine any

467
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,360
potential bidder in this sale 
process is going to want to 

468
00:23:56,360 --> 00:23:58,520
ensure that they have adequate 
coverage for business 

469
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,680
interruption on any of these 
mines because we've already seen

470
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,480
how bad things can be when there
is business interruption at 

471
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:04,960
Grosvenor. 
Yeah. 

472
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,960
Yeah, and like, because like, 
and that probably goes to the 

473
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,760
point, you know, why Adam loves 
coal insurance so much, breaking

474
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:13,240
those policies. 
It's a big coal man. 

475
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,760
Fucking hard work. 
He goes for runs with a coal hat

476
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,360
he loves. 
It he loves it. 

477
00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:21,160
They, they like CRE, operate 
like a Millennium or a citadel 

478
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:22,600
in a way. 
They're in pods. 

479
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:24,760
Yeah, well, Adam's your coal 
pod. 

480
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,920
Dave Harrison's your bloody 
construction engineer and 

481
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:30,840
manufacturer and probably 
renewables. 

482
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:32,080
So that's his pod. 
Yeah. 

483
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,360
Steve Tarr. 
Hardware pod. 

484
00:24:35,360 --> 00:24:40,720
Australian, African, rest of the
world Hard Rock mining insurance

485
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:42,320
pod. 
Yeah, right. 

486
00:24:42,360 --> 00:24:46,680
Yeah, you know CRE is the first 
3 letters in creative, credible 

487
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,040
and cremate 'cause that's what 
they do to the insurance 

488
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:51,960
competition. 
Create them. 

489
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,320
Not that good. 
We call 5 lbs. 

490
00:24:54,360 --> 00:24:55,760
We. 
Call 5. 

491
00:24:56,120 --> 00:25:01,880
Guys CRE well right? 
Ally JC Black cat, yeah it's 

492
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:07,080
raised a good chunk of dosh. 80 
bucks at $0.52 and considering 

493
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:11,320
what they were trading that pre 
gold being awesome, she's a 

494
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,600
bloody good chunky rise at a 
pretty good price. 

495
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,120
Yeah, no, like you said Maddie, 
you know, huge raise $80 

496
00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:21,440
millionbucks.52. 
So why have they you know raised

497
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,400
all this money for. 
So I'll just flash up the the 

498
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:29,520
sources and use of funds here. 
So in a nutshell, they want to 

499
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,840
accelerate the construction, 
acquisition or refurbishment of 

500
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:38,320
an enlarged processing facility 
at one of their projects, Cal 

501
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,920
East and sort of bringing that 
forward by 12 months and they 

502
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:43,400
want and. 
They can only do that because 

503
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,240
MMS ripped The Dirty outside 
quick. 

504
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:46,920
At Murray, Yeah, that's right. 
Exactly. 

505
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,280
And so they want to increase, 
they initially designed that at 

506
00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:53,360
point 8 million tonnes per and 
they want to increase that to, 

507
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,560
you know, over 1.2. 
So as part of this race, they've

508
00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:00,680
set aside $35 million as they've
labelled it as the equity 

509
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,760
contribution of a calise plant 
installation acquisition. 

510
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,640
It sounds like they're currently
own some major mill components. 

511
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,840
So we'll revisit that in a bit 
and they're sort of currently 

512
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,480
envisaging mining operations 
with this sort of acceleration 

513
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,400
in mind. 
You know commencing mid 2026, 

514
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,440
there's another 20 million that 
they've attributed to the sort 

515
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,200
of the remaining Paulson's 
restart costs. 

516
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,920
They want to drill $10 million 
across sort of all their 

517
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,800
operations and then there's 
around $33 million left in sort 

518
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,360
of working capital and and 
balance sheet sort of 

519
00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:38,920
restructuring. 
So it's sort of by doing this, 

520
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,320
Rose, it sort of removes the 
need for their, you know, 

521
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,840
previously play and secured debt
with Nabari and the associated 

522
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,760
warrants with that. 
And it also enables them to 

523
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:52,840
repay their existing convertible
notes with Sunday, which are 

524
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,400
worth just shy of $10 million of
principal and interest. 

525
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,200
And they're apparently permitted
to, you know, make an early 

526
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,000
repayment without penalty. 
I think this is like the 

527
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,800
branding in the gold sector at 
the moment, debt free and 

528
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:07,120
unhedged. 
Oh no. 

529
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,760
They're the two big words. 
Right, like the balance sheet 

530
00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:13,680
like not much fragility in it 
like that's I think that's. 

531
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,560
Why balance sheet strength? 
That's what the money's looking 

532
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,960
for at the moment. 
No, very much so. 

533
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,920
And so by the time you wash all 
of that, you know, through what 

534
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,160
does this pro forma cash kind of
look like now? 

535
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:30,080
So that $18 million at at 30 
September, if you had the gross 

536
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:34,800
proceeds of the cap raise of say
$80 million, take away the 10 

537
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,680
million that they're intending 
to repay to Sunday for those 

538
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,640
convertible notes, that leaves 
around $88 million in, in cash 

539
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,480
in the bank. 
This is obviously before capital

540
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:45,840
raising costs and things like 
that. 

541
00:27:46,120 --> 00:27:48,560
There's no more debt, no more 
convertible notes. 

542
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,080
And going forward, like what are
they actually planning to do? 

543
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,640
There's there's still mining and
producing it at Myri and 

544
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:59,200
boundary at at Cal East. 
They're expecting first gold at 

545
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,440
Paulson's later this year. 
They want to start doing more 

546
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,880
drilling at Calise to help, you 
know, sort of backfill this, you

547
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,600
know, expanded processing 
capacity. 

548
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,640
They're they're looking at sort 
of having and also drilling and 

549
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,280
studies at one of the other 
projects, Coyote to accelerate, 

550
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,400
accelerate its restart by 
another one or two years. 

551
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,440
That's a tonne of my one. 
Yeah, yeah, that's the one. 

552
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,560
And so you know in the next year
they want to be producing around

553
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,000
100,000 ounces pranum, so I 
guess. 

554
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,480
Between the two. 
Between Paulson, Kelly. 

555
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,440
So that's right, yeah. 
It's funny, I know remember like

556
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,200
I remember we talked about black
cat in the early money of mine 

557
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,960
days, such different gold price.
But like talking about, you 

558
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,760
know, very like very, I know 
it's a small part of the mine 

559
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:47,720
plan, but like, you know, the 
riskiness of the Gabrovane areas

560
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,040
and everything, but it's like 
when it's freaking unhedged and 

561
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,560
selling it over 4000 bucks an 
ounce, Holy shit, there's a lot 

562
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,320
of wiggle room now. 
And like stringers in dry, like 

563
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,200
people talk about all the 
reserves and all that sort of 

564
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,000
stuff. 
Like places like Paulsons, 

565
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,560
They're just there's, you know, 
potential stringers everywhere 

566
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,360
you could go and Chuck a jumbo 
drive in like you there's so 

567
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,920
it's so forgiving and it's like 
you can't put all that shit in 

568
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:15,640
reserves. 
You like your mind. 

569
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,880
It's sort of reactively and as 
you go. 

570
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,360
And it's just the landscape has 
changed so much since the start 

571
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,800
of this year for places like 
this with a freaking mill and a 

572
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,680
existing brownfields operation. 
So. 

573
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,880
And that's why you'd say it all 
in the friggin share prices of 

574
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,120
these companies. 
Yeah, it's yeah, yeah. 

575
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:37,640
It's go gold. 
Yeah. 

576
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,760
And, and even just, you know, 
getting rid of the debt from 

577
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:44,840
the, from the balance sheet. 
Like I, I always feel really, 

578
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,240
really just nervous when you've 
got a like a marginal producer 

579
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,440
that has sort of like even a 
modest debt quantum as they're 

580
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,680
going through what is a, you 
know, a tricky phase of ramping 

581
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:57,040
up. 
And, you know, a lot of 

582
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,080
unexpected things come your way 
having no debt. 

583
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,360
Like I think in the long run, 
you know, is the right risk 

584
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,120
adjusted thing thing to do 
because, yeah, you know, you 

585
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,440
don't have to then, you know, 
pay out your debt by raising 

586
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,200
your equity. 
If you, if you encounter one of 

587
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:14,320
those hiccups, you kind of 
you've got the yeah, the, the, 

588
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,760
the equity only kind of balance 
sheet, which makes me more 

589
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:19,040
comfortable. 
And yeah, and you're so 

590
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,760
protected against if the gold 
price goes down. 

591
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,920
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
You'll still be operating at a 

592
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:27,840
loss if the gold price went 
down, and then, you know, I 

593
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:29,680
don't have to pay debt as well. 
Exactly. 

594
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,040
Yeah, exactly. 
You don't copy it both ways. 

595
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,360
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
So, yeah, just on on those 

596
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,200
points really about that sort of
switch from, you know, having a 

597
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,840
debt component and you know sort
of and other or wrap the 

598
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,000
convertible notes in there too, 
you know a more equity funded 

599
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,160
strategy. 
I mean, so they, they actually 

600
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,000
entered into a credit approved 
term shape with Nabari on the on

601
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,560
the 5th of August for US 20 and 
a half million dollars, three 

602
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,920
years sort of senior secured 
debt facility had an interest 

603
00:30:54,920 --> 00:31:00,120
rate essentially of a, a base 
plus a 8.75% margin and, and a 

604
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,840
bunch of warrants as well. 
That facility was actually like 

605
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,400
all the docks and everything 
like that was due to close this 

606
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,320
month's. 
But you know, like we said, 

607
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,480
what's changed since since then?
Higher share price. 

608
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,200
I mean, look at the spark chart,
you know, early August, the 

609
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,200
black, it was trading in the 
early 30s and since then, as you

610
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,680
know, practically doubled in a 
few months. 

611
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,720
It's currently trading in the 
mid 50s. 

612
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,080
Aussie gold prices going up 10% 
in that time as well. 

613
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,560
And so they've obviously gone 
through some sort of assessment 

614
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:34,080
process and gone OK, what's the 
cost of equity? 

615
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:35,880
OK. 
I mean, you know, dilution 

616
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:42,720
versus debt and you know and the
much you know higher share 

617
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,840
price, gold price, all the rest 
of it and they've obviously gone

618
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:47,560
well. 
No, let's take advantage of the 

619
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,600
the current environment and and 
equity fund. 

620
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,920
Well, it's good to even after 
like what, a couple of months 

621
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,400
later you I'm sure there's a bit
bit of work that goes into that,

622
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,160
but acknowledging like right, 
even though we've put all in the

623
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,320
work, share price is good. 
Let's just fucking clear it now.

624
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,080
So that's that's a good move. 
And so as a, as a reminder for 

625
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,280
the money miners, so that the 
Cal E feasibility study update 

626
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:15,000
which bucket released early this
year shows around a 50,000 oz 

627
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,840
per annum production profile 
over an initial mine life of 

628
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:23,200
around 7 years at all a 
sustaining of around 1700 bucks 

629
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,920
an ounce for pre production 
capital of 98,000,000. 

630
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,720
There's also an additional 123 
million of of future development

631
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,160
capital. 
I'm not sure at what point in 

632
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,240
the the mine life this occurs, 
if it's sort of spread out of a.

633
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,880
Couple of that. 
But either way, Calise will 

634
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,080
still need some more funding to 
get completely up and away. 

635
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,720
But today's raise, you know, the
35,000,000 that they've set 

636
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,720
aside for the meal side of 
things is certainly a good 

637
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,640
start. 
And you know, future cash flow 

638
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,200
from Paulsen's and, and the 
current operations at Murray 

639
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,280
could help contribute to, to at 
least some of that balance of 

640
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,360
the remaining, you know, funding
pace too. 

641
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,600
I did actually notice in the 
Calais study update they they 

642
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:12,160
noted that all the firefight 
personnel are are likely to be 

643
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,480
accommodated in an existing 
mining camp located at Mount 

644
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:20,520
Munger Pastoral Station, 15 KS 
of one of their deposits. 

645
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,480
Majestic. 
Don't you don't want to drive 

646
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,560
that far each day, do you JC? 
No. 

647
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:26,920
I mean, do you think they've 
considered just getting a 

648
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:28,840
grounded camp right there on 
site? 

649
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:30,880
They should now, after you've 
said that, yeah. 

650
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,040
So I mean, look, we've shown 
everyone a lot what these 

651
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,200
grounded camps look like from 
the outside, but check out the 

652
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,080
inside. 
Look at this. 

653
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:44,200
Double beds, blackout blinds, 
better acoustics and security, 

654
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,640
larger showers and TV's. 
I mean, how good is this? 

655
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,880
You might even catch Paul Natoli
and the team they're serving 

656
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,480
your fresh Sicilian pasta and 
cannolis on arrival. 

657
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,840
But. 
You see the you see the soap at 

658
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:56,920
the front of the bed there? 
There's gonna be some bloody 

659
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:58,760
custard cannolis sitting there 
as well. 

660
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,200
Just right there for you. 
You know the best thing about a 

661
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,320
double bed on a mine site? 
What's that? 

662
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,240
You can sleep a different side 
each night. 

663
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,600
That's the best. 
That is the best thing. 

664
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,239
It's funny you say they should 
build a new 115 days away mate 

665
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:13,600
ground. 
They also upgrade existing 

666
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,159
facilities so that they're more 
luxurious. 

667
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,400
They could upgrade the Bloody 
Mount Manga Pastoral station 

668
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:18,920
though. 
You got. 

669
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,719
There's two options available. 
You got all the options you 

670
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,040
need. 
To a Sicilian quality. 

671
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,199
Yeah, with the Sicilian service 
cannolis. 

672
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:31,320
Seven star mining camps love it 
with cannolis. 

673
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,520
This is all very interesting, 
Ali. 

674
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,280
The thing I think about always 
like the like, so there's a 

675
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:40,120
little bit of equity side post 
of processing like solution like

676
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:44,000
at least which throws into the 
question, well, where are they 

677
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:45,920
gonna process the callers? 
Cause at the moment MMS are 

678
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,320
doing they're, they're sending 
it, I think to Paddington. 

679
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:49,880
Addington. 
I hear Paddington is kind of 

680
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,239
chock a block at the moment with
a bunch of different talk. 

681
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,239
In fact, all of the kind of, you
know, milling infrastructure 

682
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,160
that is, you know, you can 
you're able to talk stuff doing 

683
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,120
in in around the goldfields. 
He's like chockablock at the 

684
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:00,960
moment. 
So it. 

685
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:02,560
Costs more to do it. 
Yeah. 

686
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,720
Like, yeah, yeah. 
And even Norton Goldfields are 

687
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,640
making money out of it. 
Yeah, on a processing front. 

688
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,360
Even even like Piggy Butler's 
effort, like I'm pretty sure 

689
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,800
that Middle East is chockablock 
with Northern Star like demand 

690
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:16,720
for the next like 12 months too,
which is what's that that's. 

691
00:35:16,720 --> 00:35:21,200
The Greenstone 1, is that right?
I think Greenfields, Greenfields

692
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,040
or whatever it is, I think 
greenstones another. 

693
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,800
Yeah, yeah, it's like, 'cause 
and they, as I said, talking 

694
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,920
about acquisition of a mill, it 
is interesting because another 

695
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,080
one I've heard is, you know, if 
you say that one's chockablock, 

696
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,520
I've heard Lakewood is being 
underfed. 

697
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,520
OK, Beta hunt. 
So it sounds like, it sounds 

698
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,120
like at the moment, like a lot 
of that could go to 

699
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,160
Higginsville. 
So I'm not sure if West Gold 

700
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,280
would ever flog off Lakewood 
because I think it is. 

701
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,640
I think Higginsville is the 
better mill than Lakewood. 

702
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:57,720
Blackwood's only got 7 years of 
of tail, like there's racing 

703
00:35:57,720 --> 00:36:01,440
down one more tails lift and 
seven years left that you know, 

704
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,440
capacity there and that's it. 
There's no more. 

705
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,480
There's no more. 
You can't do another lift after 

706
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:08,440
that. 
That is the maximum. 

707
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,320
You can't get seven years. 
Worth out of that. 

708
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:14,440
All right, So what? 
Why is that permitting? 

709
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,080
Yeah. 
So if you wanted to sell the. 

710
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,360
Opportunity to. 
No, that's it. 

711
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,760
That's so if you wanted to get 
value for, for that 

712
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,240
infrastructure and you did want 
to sell that, I think you, you 

713
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,000
know, you, you do it while 
there's still like capacity in 

714
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,320
that. 
Yeah, yeah, So that'll be and 

715
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:34,440
because if for the West Gold 1 
is that's if they did just send 

716
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,440
everything to Higginsville. 
The other, the other thought, if

717
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,400
my little astral prediction 
comes through like that, 

718
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:44,480
probably like what's not big 
enough to probably take there's 

719
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,200
you wouldn't be trucking open 
pit dirt up there anyway. 

720
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,000
So it's like it might become 
redundant if they bought that 

721
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,760
and added 2,000,000 tonne base 
food coming from pits there. 

722
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,840
Probably build an enlarged 
facility there and take and take

723
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,360
beta hunt there. 
That's one option there. 

724
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,560
Well, the other one there's 
plenty of mills in the friggin 

725
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,920
district, but it's size. 
If they want to go to one half 

726
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,760
1.2 to one half million tonne, 
you need the size. 

727
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,760
Like I think the the Northern 
Stars are Jubilee processing 

728
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:13,440
plant. 
That's not care of maintenance 

729
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,080
one. 
Point 2,000,000 tonne, but I 

730
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,520
think that's what probably 50 
mil reefer but least or circuit 

731
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,160
plucking numbers out there. 
That's interesting because they 

732
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:22,800
said they wanted to go up to 
1.2. 

733
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,320
Didn't they 1.2? 
At least 1.2. 

734
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,000
That fits the. 
That fits the description. 

735
00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:30,720
Yeah, well, but it's all I guess
it's on the other side 

736
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,000
interesting ones. 
KB, Kanana Bell, Yep, for 

737
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,760
Northern Star. 
So because it's 2,000,000 tonne 

738
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,120
still pumping the they're still 
got it looks full based on the 

739
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:45,840
last quarterly. 
But you would assume when KC 

740
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:50,360
KCGM expansion is done buddy, 
Kanada Bell, South Cal 

741
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:54,120
operations, everything will go 
to KCGM. 

742
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,560
You would, I would assume, I'd 
assume that just turn everything

743
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,640
off and just Chuck everything to
feed 27,000,000 tonne through 

744
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,760
KCGM. 
So do you reckon will KB come 

745
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:05,720
onto the table? 
Tonight there's. 

746
00:38:05,720 --> 00:38:06,840
Have they talked about that, 
Maddie? 

747
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:08,320
Have they? 
Have they said it like that? 

748
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,080
No, ChatGPT said there was 
comments but. 

749
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,880
I couldn't find it. 
KB has such. 

750
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:15,640
A. 
But they have talked about like 

751
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:17,720
sending everything. 
I. 

752
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,200
Swear I've talked about 
centralising everything just 

753
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,200
straight into KCGM lot. 
Fuck if you got 27,000,000 tonne

754
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,800
why wouldn't I now? 
Ever remember him saying S Cal 

755
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:31,000
stuff would probably go there? 
I don't know if that was in an 

756
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:36,200
announcement or at a pub. 
And that's 27 by 2029, is that 

757
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:37,320
right? 
Yeah, I think. 

758
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:38,800
It's gone off memory from a good
while ago. 

759
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,720
Yeah, I think it, I think it 
gets to 24 or 25 before that and

760
00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:44,760
then yeah, it is obviously 
staged. 

761
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,480
But yeah, don't, I don't know if
that had ever come onto the 

762
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:52,960
table, but it's probably not 
short term enough. 

763
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:55,920
I wouldn't imagine, but he had 
to be. 

764
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,600
I'm sure it's been sure it's 
been looked option. 

765
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,240
I reckon because you get all 
these efficiencies from sending 

766
00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:04,960
like, you know, deposits here 
and there depending on how far 

767
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:06,800
you're trucking it and all that 
sort of stuff would come in and 

768
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,680
you've got to track it a bit 
further from from like, you 

769
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,640
know, KB to the, to Finniston. 
Yeah, but. 

770
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,360
Depending on where you're from. 
Manning as well, yeah. 

771
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,880
Bigger mill, less like. 
You've got to have a whole extra

772
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:22,320
bloody whole level of 
management, you know, operating 

773
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,280
that processing plant where you 
can like centralised it in one. 

774
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,040
I think there's there'd be a lot
it's I think every day of the 

775
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:33,280
week you'd save cash trucking it
to a big massive meal with less 

776
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:34,400
personnel work in there. 
I. 

777
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,040
Think I'd be a tonne can be the 
lot like the last roaster in WA.

778
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,880
They're still operating too. 
That the gidgy. 

779
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:42,760
The Gidgy. 
It's not, it's not GIDGY. 

780
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:44,560
Yeah, it's Canal. 
Barrel's got a roaster. 

781
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:47,360
Yeah, I know. 
I know they were. 

782
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:51,000
But that I think as part of this
expansion, I remember a comment 

783
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:55,960
1/4 or two ago that was trying 
to get it to the stage sooner 

784
00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:00,000
where all the roasting, all all 
the, you know, use of the 

785
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,400
refractory was going to be done 
at the KCJM and not at the I 

786
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,800
think GG one or something. 
I don't know, I should research 

787
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,160
more. 
But yeah, my point is just that 

788
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,160
that roaster in and of itself, 
it is a pretty interesting kind 

789
00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:16,480
of has a fair bit of value 
because that is a processing 

790
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,120
solution for a fair few old 
bodies in and around the region 

791
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,400
which don't have a processing 
solution. 

792
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:25,800
Think of Ephradi which is in 
Genesis portfolio beautiful or 

793
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,640
body underneath the road but 
needs needs a roaster. 

794
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:33,040
Yeah. 
What was the, what was the other

795
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:34,800
one? 
Now that's the main one. 

796
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,440
What's our Zoroastrian? 
That's the non refractory one, 

797
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:39,840
yeah. 
And then that's, I mean, 

798
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:45,040
bringing it back to, you know, 
sort of black Cat and Callie's 

799
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,800
and try and sort of address this
in the next, you know, year or 

800
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,320
two, whether. 
And you know, some of those 

801
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:54,440
options might be too long, long 
dated to to to suit them. 

802
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,840
And, you know, will they have to
perhaps construct something. 

803
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,120
And then, you know, what's the 
timing and the permitting and, 

804
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,920
you know, everything, you know, 
associated with with going down 

805
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,640
that path as well. 
So just something else to have 

806
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,480
in the back of the mind. 
But then yeah. 

807
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:13,240
And then separately, I mean they
they've got some options 

808
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,200
expiring sort of within the next
year, which are which are pretty

809
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:18,880
in the money at the moment. 
So they might have some other 

810
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:24,440
cash potentially coming in the 
door just to help towards that, 

811
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:26,240
you know that funding pace as 
well. 

812
00:41:26,240 --> 00:41:27,720
So that's. 
About 6,000,000 bucks. 

813
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,800
Yeah, sort of that expiring, you
know, in the next year and 

814
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,640
there's sort of a bunch of other
unlisted ones at various 

815
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,480
exercise prices expiring in the 
next few years as well. 

816
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:42,320
Yeah, no, great to see, you 
know, mine's mine's getting 

817
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,960
built and, you know, accelerated
and all of that. 

818
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,720
So I'll. 
Suppose to touch with the saying

819
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,560
the saying it's been accelerated
till the bloody government gets 

820
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:52,960
involved. 
Yeah, we shall say. 

821
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,040
Yeah, it's right. 
Next up, Vault. 

822
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,840
First time we've flashed up the 
Vault logo I think. 

823
00:41:57,840 --> 00:41:59,680
Yeah, look at that. 
Looks slick, doesn't it? 

824
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,200
And I'm a Ding Ding on Vault as 
well. 

825
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,840
They're and they're a Ding, 
Ding, Ding of a lot of cash. 

826
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:10,480
So vault the old Red 5 
Silverlight thingamajig you'd 

827
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,000
say. 
So I sold a bit over 100,000 oz 

828
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:20,600
for the quarter, 102 1/2 at an 
average sale price of 3162. 

829
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:22,680
We'll get into their hedging a 
bit later. 

830
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:27,600
So yeah, lot the open pits are 
sort of ramping up at Mount 

831
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:29,280
Monger. 
It looks like the underground 

832
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:32,720
for side of things at Daisy and 
that's starting to drop off as 

833
00:42:32,720 --> 00:42:35,760
they said they got like six 
years of base load mill feed 

834
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:39,920
coming out of the pits there. 
You know, deflector, deflector 

835
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,080
out a Ripper of a bloody thing. 
But over 30,000 ounces of gold 

836
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,560
producers are pretty 1820 all 
and sustainable. 

837
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,280
Remember they got the copper 
that comes off that as well. 

838
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:54,320
So Leonora, so king of the hills
and so that's Leonora refers to 

839
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,960
King of the hills and Dallas. 
So a bit below 50,000 oz for 

840
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:04,280
their so it looks like they're 
in a bit of a big pre stripping 

841
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,600
mode for King of the Hills. 
So they're limited. 

842
00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:11,840
I think that limited mining 
fronts lot of you see the amount

843
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:16,920
of extra waste moves. 
So like they be total BCM moved 

844
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:21,360
of the Orem waste was, you know,
significantly a good chunk ahead

845
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:23,760
of what had been done in the 
previous quarter. 

846
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:28,040
So it says, I don't think till 
about second half FY25 they get 

847
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,600
to sort of access the the new 
newer mining areas once a lot of

848
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:35,560
that the next stage expansions 
done. 

849
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:39,480
So and hence you say the mine 
grade dropped from .7 down to 

850
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:43,960
.54 for King of the Hills. 
But they're obviously going well

851
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,240
with the the throughput and 
everything. 

852
00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:48,440
God, I lost me bloody thing. 
Here we go, I'm back. 

853
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:53,560
But yeah, operating about, you 
know, the 4.3 million tonne run 

854
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,640
rate for that mill. 
So she's all taken along talking

855
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,720
about expanding it to 6,000,000 
tonne per annum. 

856
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,800
Wow, that's big, yeah, just go 
big. 

857
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:05,200
Just go big. 
Go to 88's good, 8 million's 

858
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:12,120
good cash and bullion on hand, 
523 million buckaroos. 

859
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:15,920
So underlying free cash flow for
the quarter of 35 mil. 

860
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:19,680
So it actually went, it 
increased 70 mil, but that the 

861
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:23,160
sold the shares in themselves 
and and all that sort of stuff. 

862
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,160
So there's a bit of post merger 
stuff. 

863
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:26,880
Out of Treasury shares, yeah, 
yeah. 

864
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:31,880
Yeah, so, but yeah, so the so 
the hedge book, which is 

865
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,160
obviously the the legacy stuff 
that come from, you know, King 

866
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,600
of the Hills being debt funded, 
it's one of the ones where it 

867
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,000
was debt funded, get hyper 
hedging. 

868
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:43,440
Then you had to do a hyper 
capital raises and it's all 

869
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:45,120
being cleared. 
But you have to keep the hedging

870
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,480
unfortunately, which they just 
got, which they're like you're 

871
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:50,280
debt free. 
We'll just we'll get rid of the 

872
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,360
hedging for you. 
They, they said, they said when 

873
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:57,760
they did the old like, OK, we've
got access to Silver Lakes cash 

874
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:01,600
opportunity synergies include 
paying out the hedge, closing 

875
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:04,480
out the hedge book without cash 
or, or accelerating growth of 

876
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,520
cost. 
And it looks like they've chosen

877
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,920
accelerating growth of cost with
the cash instead of closing out 

878
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:11,520
the hedge book, but with gold 
price running. 

879
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,320
Yeah, yeah, it's like, it's like
maybe two months ago, but but 

880
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,120
you don't know, you close it out
now and the bloody gold price 

881
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:19,160
goes down. 
Like you. 

882
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:23,720
As I said, you need to get about
5% lift in it just to negate the

883
00:45:23,720 --> 00:45:26,240
interest you would have earned 
on that money in the gold price.

884
00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:29,520
So because they got pretty much 
40% of their forecast of 

885
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:34,840
production for FY25 hedged 
122,000 oz at 2734. 

886
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:40,520
Remember gold price is sitting 
in over 4000 FY20 622,000 oz 

887
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:46,440
again at 20802882 per oz. 
That's about 31% of their 

888
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:51,600
production beyond FY20 6, pretty
much unhedged. 

889
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,680
I think they got 10,000 oz 
hedged at 2797. 

890
00:45:54,680 --> 00:46:01,240
So it's getting them which looks
like it will line up to no. 

891
00:46:01,240 --> 00:46:05,320
So when do they get, they get 
into the high grade areas FY25 

892
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:07,760
end of FY25. 
So yeah. 

893
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:09,520
So they'll have a, it's one of 
them ones. 

894
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:13,880
Do you close it out now or they 
just ride the wave and get to 

895
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:18,480
FY20 6 when she was start start 
raining a bit end of FY20 6 

896
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,400
which starts raining a bit more.
So yeah, bit. 

897
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:24,320
Of a tricky 1 because yeah, 
you're trying to take a bet on 

898
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:26,800
the commodity price rather, you 
know do you believe it's going 

899
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:32,200
to continue going as high as it 
has you know, in the last year 

900
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:34,840
or if you. 
Because you know, you could take

901
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,600
it out like you say, Maddie, and
then if the gold price doesn't 

902
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:39,760
move or it goes lower, well 
then, you know, what was the 

903
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:41,560
sort of point thing? 
And you know, perhaps is there a

904
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:45,280
better use of capital to, I 
mean, they're obviously, you 

905
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,600
know, looking at expanding cost 
further. 

906
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:53,040
You know, they're due to put out
their, you know, their capital 

907
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:57,360
sort of management, you know, 
programme or sort of a plan 

908
00:46:57,720 --> 00:47:01,600
imminently as far as you know, 
you know, maybe that'll be, you 

909
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:05,200
know, returns to shareholders 
like a buyback or a dividend or,

910
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:07,440
you know, things like that as 
well. 

911
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:11,720
So is they've got, I guess the 
fortunate position is they've 

912
00:47:11,720 --> 00:47:16,040
got, you know, a fair bit of 
cash and and at present no debt.

913
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:20,520
Yeah, to to sort of service and 
work through those hedges. 

914
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,640
Yeah, yeah. 
I think the best way to minimise

915
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:28,040
the amount of the percentage of 
production that is hedged get 

916
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,760
more Oz merge with Genesis 
already. 

917
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:33,440
They don't have. 
They don't have to keep frigging

918
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:35,480
talking about it. 
It's going to happen sooner 

919
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:37,040
rather than later. 
Easy. 

920
00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:41,040
Yeah, that'll just yeah. 
Then it'd be like 20% of their 

921
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:43,040
production piece of piece. 
There you. 

922
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:48,800
Go God. 
Diamonds, JD. 

923
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:52,720
Let's talk a bit about diamonds.
On man you're the biggest 

924
00:47:52,720 --> 00:47:56,040
diamond in Washington mining 
commentary that is sub 30. 

925
00:47:56,040 --> 00:48:00,480
JD tell you that, Matt. 
Mcblash mate, have have we 

926
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:02,520
spoken about diamonds? 
I was trying to think before. 

927
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:05,680
I'm not sure if we actually have
in any sort of great detail 

928
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:07,960
besides Burgundy. 
To beers with Anglo. 

929
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:09,640
Yeah, really. 
Yeah, Yeah. 

930
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:11,440
That was the one that briefly 
came to mind. 

931
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:16,960
So Burgundy, you know, bar Rio 
like is the the only way you can

932
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,360
get it's the only way you can 
get direct exposure on the ASX 

933
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:21,120
and there's a bit of a new 
vehicle. 

934
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:23,640
So I'll sort of preface what I'm
going to say here that I've got 

935
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:25,960
Pretty Little knowledge of the 
diamond space. 

936
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:30,320
I'm keen to learn more keen to 
get an expert in the field on. 

937
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:33,520
But I thought the the quarterly 
that came out today was worth a 

938
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,720
peek for a few reasons. 
So first and foremost, 

939
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:40,400
Burgundy's got some, you know, a
decent management team with some

940
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:42,680
big names sort of in their 
ranks. 

941
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:47,360
So first up you've got Michael 
O'Keefe, he's of Riversdale and 

942
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,920
Champion Iron fame, sort of made
a lot of money for himself and 

943
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,240
shareholders. 
Previous to that, he was the the

944
00:48:53,240 --> 00:48:56,400
boss of Glencore Australia. 
He's the non exec chair at the 

945
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,600
company owns about 5% of the the
stock. 

946
00:48:59,960 --> 00:49:06,760
These guys bought the eccarty 
mine 15 months ago and on 23 

947
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:10,280
numbers, it's the sixth biggest 
diamond mined globally. 

948
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:13,520
And it's the only one that kind 
of sits in the hands of a, you 

949
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:17,880
know, a small cap. 
BDM is capped at 150 million net

950
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:22,000
debt of that's Aussie dollars 
here, net debt of Aussie 34. 

951
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:24,160
But they've got diamond 
inventories. 

952
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:29,560
These are carried at cost at 
Aussie $108 million. 

953
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:33,560
So the balance sheet has changed
quite a bit since these guys 

954
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:37,240
took control of the company. 
All the while the stock is 

955
00:49:37,240 --> 00:49:40,200
actually halved. 
So the the chart isn't pretty 

956
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:42,960
and that's sort of in the face 
of a a diamond industry that's 

957
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:45,360
struggling. 
Make my interest, JD. 

958
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:48,360
Yeah. 
And you know, I was thinking the

959
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:50,320
exact same. 
It's it's a hated space. 

960
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:53,240
There's complexities to it, but 
it's enough to sort of get 

961
00:49:53,240 --> 00:49:55,600
interested. 
So diving into the actual 

962
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,840
quarterly result today, the the 
outcome is kind of so, so 

963
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,240
they're doing a lot of mine life
extension work. 

964
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,720
A lot of this work did disrupt 
the actual mining. 

965
00:50:04,720 --> 00:50:08,360
They also transitioned from the 
Sable open pit to the Point Lake

966
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:11,680
open pit. 
Recoveries were a bit lower than

967
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:13,120
expected. 
That was sort of on the back of 

968
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:16,000
the grades process being a bit 
lower as well. 

969
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,920
But on the cash front, I'll 
Chuck up the waterfall charts so

970
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:20,520
you guys can have a bit of a 
look. 

971
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:25,360
Now they did US 23 million in 
operational cash flow before 

972
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,440
working capital comes into 
account, whilst the revenue per 

973
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:32,320
carat dropped 20%. 
So you've got the commodity 

974
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,480
price not not going in your 
favour. 

975
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,480
You're at the the sort of lows, 
if you like, in a commodity 

976
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,520
price whilst you're still making
money on an operational front. 

977
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:45,600
They did pay back a condo. 
So like I said, cleaning up the 

978
00:50:45,720 --> 00:50:48,920
the cap structure to the tune of
US $23 million. 

979
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,920
They also spent US 36,000,000 
bucks on CapEx, 2/3 of that 

980
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:57,960
going towards waste stripping. 
So overall EBITDA it was down a 

981
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:00,760
couple million to US $22 
million. 

982
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:03,120
And yeah, just just pull up the 
waterfall chart. 

983
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:06,120
There's a lot of numbers are 
sort of slung out just then. 

984
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:10,160
But bearing in mind that the 
commodity hasn't done so well, 

985
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,320
it doesn't look all that kind of
bad. 

986
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:16,440
And we're expecting a strong 
finish to the year because these

987
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:19,720
guys actually give revenue and 
EBITDA guidance. 

988
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:24,080
Now that guidance was revised 
lower, but given where we are 

989
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:27,200
and where they said they'll 
still get to, the numbers should

990
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:30,800
finish quite strongly. 
So all our cash flow side of 

991
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:35,000
things, very interesting from my
perspective to see operationally

992
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:38,080
a bit of cash coming in the door
while things have been pretty 

993
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:40,040
beaten up. 
And this this next chart I'll 

994
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,040
show you here. 
It's quite an interesting one 

995
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:43,800
for those listening in and not 
looking at the chart. 

996
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:46,480
It breaks out over, I think, the
last sort of five quarters or 

997
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:50,600
so, a few different balance 
sheet items, and you can just 

998
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:51,920
sort of get a feel for the 
trend. 

999
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,120
So firstly, it's a good sign to 
see that the company's focused 

1000
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:57,240
on what's kind of important, and
it's good to see how they're 

1001
00:51:57,240 --> 00:51:59,560
kind of working towards them. 
So I'll give a couple of 

1002
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:01,600
examples. 
One of them is diamond 

1003
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:03,120
inventory. 
These guys have had a lot of 

1004
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:07,240
money tied up in inventory, and 
they're aiming to reduce that. 

1005
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:10,160
Another pretty straightforward 1
is reducing your debt 

1006
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:13,800
obligations. 
So again, working well to clean 

1007
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:17,280
up these sorts of things. 
They also said that in the 

1008
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:20,320
quarter that we're now in, 
they're going to put aside US 

1009
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:22,920
$22 million for an environmental
trust. 

1010
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:26,560
This is a a pretty common thing 
we've kind of seen with the the 

1011
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:29,920
Canadian miners. 
It's your cash, but it's not 

1012
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:31,040
your cash. 
You know, you've got to have it 

1013
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:34,360
tied up in a trust and there's 
some tax benefits to that. 

1014
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:36,720
The company said as well. 
So. 

1015
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:39,320
Really interesting mate. 
The, the, when I think of the, 

1016
00:52:39,720 --> 00:52:42,480
you know, the whole diamond 
industry, it's like the, the 

1017
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:46,360
price has been under pressure 
because lab grown diamonds 

1018
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:49,560
coming way lower on the cost 
curve and people have been, you 

1019
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:53,400
know, willing to accept them as 
it's literally the same thing. 

1020
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:55,480
It's just. 
It's not the same. 

1021
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:59,160
It's like. 
It's like Bush weed and hard 

1022
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,520
drive basically. 
It's not the same. 

1023
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:05,920
What would you have done if if 
Paul proposed with a with a lab 

1024
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:06,760
grown rock? 
Oh. 

1025
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:09,680
Take it back. 
Take it back. 

1026
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:11,760
No, Yeah. 
Oh, no. 

1027
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:12,360
It's. 
I don't know. 

1028
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:14,440
There's something romantic about
a real diamond. 

1029
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:15,920
That's interesting. 
See I've I've had the. 

1030
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:18,560
Just the engaged. 
Woman I've had. 

1031
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:21,120
The chat with all my mates, 
granted all my mates, you know, 

1032
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:25,000
knuckleheads, but lab grown 
rocks like everyone's a lab 

1033
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:26,520
grown rock. 
I've had the chat with brides. 

1034
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:28,120
She's happy with the lab grown 
rock like. 

1035
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:32,160
I mean, like chemically, it's 
like it's basically the same 

1036
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:34,680
thing. 
It's just formed, you know, in a

1037
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:37,440
lab. 
Yeah, Go to the last picture 

1038
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:39,680
I've got here, guys. 
We'll flash it up now for those 

1039
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:41,680
listening. 
And you can see obviously the 

1040
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:46,800
company addresses this head on 
and obviously the company talks 

1041
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:51,520
about growing demand for mined 
diamonds as opposed to lab grown

1042
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:54,760
market, lab grown diamonds. 
And you can sort of see they 

1043
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:59,320
talk about a bifurcation in the 
diamond market and you obviously

1044
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:01,040
they have put their own numbers 
to it. 

1045
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:04,040
It's from the sort of analysts 
that they kind of use, but it's 

1046
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:07,520
interesting to see the size of 
the mined diamond market 

1047
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:11,280
relative to the diamonds that 
are grown in labs. 

1048
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:15,680
So again for those listening, I 
will say the 2023 numbers is $43

1049
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:22,720
billion of demand for those that
are mined versus a lab grown 

1050
00:54:22,720 --> 00:54:26,720
market of seven. 
So mind is still bigger and you 

1051
00:54:26,720 --> 00:54:29,280
know, it ties in with what 
you're saying, Trev, we're at 

1052
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:33,840
that kind of Inflexion point 
now, which makes it a very 

1053
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:37,320
interesting debate because you 
know that the debate wasn't a 

1054
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:39,880
really fair one to have 10 years
ago, five years ago, because the

1055
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:42,840
costs were so different. 
So that outweighed anyone's sort

1056
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:46,320
of feelings to the emissions or 
anything else that's sort of 

1057
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:49,560
tied up in the the purchase of, 
you know, what's been a pretty 

1058
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:51,520
big purchase for a lot of 
people. 

1059
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:54,400
So that is one of the big knocks
on the company. 

1060
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:57,240
And there's another couple that 
we should kind of address as 

1061
00:54:57,240 --> 00:55:01,160
well, short mine life that, you 
know, wakes you in the face when

1062
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:02,680
you kind of look at it. 
And again, the company's doing 

1063
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:04,880
heaps to kind of address that. 
Lots of drilling. 

1064
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:07,960
Like I said, it sort of 
disrupted their, their quarter 

1065
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:10,080
just gone. 
But that's also on the flip 

1066
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:13,840
side, a big catalyst, Misery, 
the the Kimberlat pipe pipe at 

1067
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:17,240
Misery is the, the big one, the 
high grade one. 

1068
00:55:17,240 --> 00:55:20,560
If they can extend that beyond 
2026, that's a bit of a 

1069
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:23,080
catalyst. 
And they've got a bunch of other

1070
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:25,400
deposits that you'll have seen 
in the map before. 

1071
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:28,640
If they can extend the mine life
beyond where it kind of sits 

1072
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:33,080
right now trailing off in 2029, 
then that's a sort of big bone 

1073
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:35,440
for the company. 
And the other kind of knock is 

1074
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:39,840
single asset miner in a 
relatively remote part of the 

1075
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:42,840
world does come with it's fair 
share of risk. 

1076
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,640
But on the positive side of 
things, like I said, management 

1077
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:49,160
team that looks the goods on 
paper, cap structure that's 

1078
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:53,120
being cleaned up, an asset 
that's being optimised for 

1079
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:55,440
varying sort of degrees. 
So they're, they're a bunch of 

1080
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:58,240
the, the positive boxes that 
these guys are checking. 

1081
00:55:58,240 --> 00:56:01,720
And yeah, I mean, that's all in 
a sort of hour of digging into 

1082
00:56:01,720 --> 00:56:03,560
the company. 
I think there's more than enough

1083
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:06,600
for us to kind of get interested
and speak with some experts in 

1084
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:08,680
the in the space and learn a bit
more about it and. 

1085
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:11,440
I was under the like, yeah, I 
think I've made the comment 

1086
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:12,600
before. 
I think the diamond mark is 

1087
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:13,560
fucked. 
But I think like, you know, 

1088
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:17,160
heck, Alex V. 
There in itself is evidence that

1089
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:21,120
there is like demand for plenty.
Plenty of people have different 

1090
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:23,400
consumer preferences, right? 
And, and there's a subset of 

1091
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:26,000
consumers that are going to want
buying diamonds and they're 

1092
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:27,960
willing to pay a lot more for 
them as a result, because more, 

1093
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:31,360
more like, you know, more sexy, 
more prestigious, more romantic,

1094
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:35,400
but. 
Buy shares in friggin family 

1095
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:39,280
lawyers because bloody those 
homegrown diamonds might result 

1096
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:43,040
in a shit load of divorces in 
the future. 

1097
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:46,000
Yeah, mate, that's bloody. 
Where the coins going to come 

1098
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:47,280
in? 
Yeah. 

1099
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:49,760
I mean, I think the the other 
part of the debate with De Beers

1100
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:54,640
back when we spoke about them is
like the they're kind of a 

1101
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:59,240
luxury retailer as well. 
So it goes in De Beers case, 

1102
00:56:59,240 --> 00:57:01,040
that is. 
It's not the exact same case for

1103
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:05,200
Burgundy, but there's definitely
nuances to it. 

1104
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:08,520
We need to get a Dominic spit 
on. 

1105
00:57:09,240 --> 00:57:11,000
We do. 
I've reached out to 1 so it's 

1106
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:12,320
going to happen soon. 
Love it. 

1107
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:15,360
Beautiful. 
Oh, very good. 

1108
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:19,760
Well, we better mention all our 
homegrown, our sorry natural 

1109
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:24,600
diamond partners, not homegrown,
we only have natural diamond 

1110
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:28,400
partners from the Earth Mineral 
Mining services. 

1111
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:32,320
Grounded at the top of the show 
and CRE at the top of the show 

1112
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:33,120
as well. 
Oh. 

1113
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:36,520
God, I feel like I feel like 
getting engaged now, talking 

1114
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:39,840
about all these people. 
Cross boundary energy. 

1115
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:43,720
Sandy ground support, freelands,
equipment, K drill, MMTS, 

1116
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:46,040
Australian earthworks and 
haulage and get a spark drop. 

1117
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:49,960
Yeah, Huda. 
Root that's good. 

1118
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:53,800
Information contained in this 
episode of Money of Mine is of 

1119
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:55,880
general nature only and does not
take into account the 

1120
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:59,480
objectives, financial situation,
or needs of any particular 

1121
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:01,520
person. 
Before making any investment 

1122
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:04,560
decision, you should consult 
with your financial advisor and 

1123
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:07,720
consider how appropriate the 
advice is to your objectives, 

1124
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:09,920
financial situation and needs.