1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,960
Right. 
Eye money miners, very quick 

2
00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:06,200
quarterly wrap up coming up as 
quick as bloody MMS can get gear

3
00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:08,400
on your site to start moving 
open pit dirt. 

4
00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,000
That is how quick that is. 
Like we're doing this segment to

5
00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,400
highlight how quick they are 
because the gears there, the 

6
00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,960
gear can be moving dirt probably
lunchtime. 

7
00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:19,320
Pressure's on for us to be 
quick. 

8
00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,160
Yeah, yeah, I'm going to make it
quick because I won't be as 

9
00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,280
quick as them, obviously. 
Hey, boys. 

10
00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,960
Yeah, Travan JC had a bit of a 
special guest come in this 

11
00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,840
morning to shoot the shit a bit.
Yeah, we did. 

12
00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:31,560
We had Jake. 
I don't. 

13
00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:33,080
Know if you know it. 
Did you know him? 

14
00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:37,360
No, I can't cross him. 
Jake Klein, executive chair of 

15
00:00:37,480 --> 00:00:40,280
of Evolution Mining. 
He popped in the studio, had a 

16
00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:42,920
bit of a yarn. 
He's one of those big thinkers 

17
00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:44,440
in the industry. 
He's always got something a bit 

18
00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:46,920
kind of, you know, out there 
that he wants to talk about. 

19
00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,680
A few talking points. 
And today we went in the the 

20
00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:53,760
weeds of some of the, you know, 
very strange government policy 

21
00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:55,880
decisions that we've seen out 
there, like the rug pool of 

22
00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:59,320
Mcphillimy's and the 
implications that has obviously 

23
00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:01,560
he's evolution outrageous, but 
was happy to talk about it, 

24
00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,120
which, you know, I think was 
important also Australia's 

25
00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:06,800
relationship with China and kind
of the, you know, the the big 

26
00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,400
theme of de globalisation, what 
that means for for a lot of the 

27
00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:10,720
industry. 
And then, of course, I couldn't 

28
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help myself but ask about deals,
future deals. 

29
00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:15,200
So as. 
Joe predicted. 

30
00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,560
He gave you nothing. 
I reckon there's something 

31
00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:19,040
there, but I have to really 
listen. 

32
00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:24,520
Right now let's let's RIP in. 
First off, cap off the rank ass 

33
00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:29,080
Siona. 
Mate, Lithium Co Lithium, Yeah, 

34
00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:31,560
I just thought I'd point out, 
you know, just wanted to point 

35
00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,960
out kind of what stood out. 
This was just one of those ugly 

36
00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:38,360
waterfall charts, not much. 
And it looks very good it. 

37
00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,520
Looked all right until you read 
what the item was. 

38
00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:44,240
Yeah, yeah. 
You look opening cash, closing 

39
00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:46,240
cash, oh, cash went up. 
So you think oh did they make 

40
00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,360
money? 
But no, the ones that go down 

41
00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:51,960
include group underlying EBITDA 
-18 million. 

42
00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,360
But the thing that went up was 
this net working capital 

43
00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:57,800
movement of 46,000,000. 
What they put that down to is 

44
00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,640
customer prepayments and draw 
down of ROM inventory. 

45
00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,240
So you know it gets me a bit 
nervous because those 

46
00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:07,280
prepayments are now future 
obligations that say owner must 

47
00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:11,080
satisfy fire production and that
and delivery bears real cash 

48
00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,960
cost to the business and there's
risk that that will be the loss 

49
00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,320
making too. 
So yeah, I found it interesting 

50
00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:21,960
that is some hedging as well. 
But I like from what I kind of 

51
00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:25,040
pieced together, I think what 
they've done is that there's 

52
00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,720
some short dated contango in the
market. 

53
00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:30,720
They can actually get a, a, you 
know, a a bit of an uplift on 

54
00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,840
selling kind of near term, near 
term inventory as a result of 

55
00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:35,280
that. 
I wouldn't imagine it's it's too

56
00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:37,360
much, but. 
Yeah, it's certainly a limited 

57
00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,040
hedging, so. 
Yes. 

58
00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,120
And fun fact, I, I had someone 
tell me that that that Zion is 

59
00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,280
going to have to spend 22 
million this quarter on 

60
00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,240
exploration to be to get the 
flow through financing kind of 

61
00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:49,600
credits and all that sort of 
stuff. 

62
00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:51,560
Yeah. 
Oh, chestnut. 

63
00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:53,160
Yeah, right. 
Good summer. 

64
00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,320
But we're we're just going to 
talk about not the numbers, just

65
00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:02,080
shit that interesting shit in 
this Northern Star pretty flat. 

66
00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,320
It was all pretty stock 
standard, but hedge book is 

67
00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:09,080
interesting for FY20 6. 
As I, as I said in a call today,

68
00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:12,040
everyone starts talking about 
hedging in a rising gold price 

69
00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:13,920
environment. 
And as I said, hedging never 

70
00:03:13,920 --> 00:03:15,880
works in a rising gold price 
environment. 

71
00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,640
It's pretty, that's pretty. 
Can't say it any more simpler 

72
00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:20,760
than that. 
More about trying to guarantee 

73
00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,040
long term returns. 
Works great when you pick the 

74
00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,640
top you hedge right at the top 
and then Phew, gold price 

75
00:03:25,640 --> 00:03:29,040
forward. 
Sorry, because they've, they've 

76
00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,320
got it to 2 million oz for FY20 
6. 

77
00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,880
But nearly you look at the hedge
profile here, nearly third of 

78
00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:38,600
that is hedged at an average 
price of 3150. 

79
00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,600
So it's just, it's funny when 
you look at the numbers like the

80
00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:46,520
effect on large scale producers 
like this, I like hypothetically

81
00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:52,280
let's say gold was 4100 or 
stayed at this level all FY20 6,

82
00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,560
they realised price would be a 
bit below 3800. 

83
00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:59,880
So that's a hedge impactful. 
So almost $200 million just in 

84
00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:02,720
that. 
So or it could go down and it's 

85
00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:05,920
and it's all good. 
So but, but you think, you think

86
00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:10,880
of an average realised price of 
potentially 3738 hundred when 

87
00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:14,400
they were doing the KCGM 
expansion FID and everything, 

88
00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:16,720
they would have taken that any 
day of the week. 

89
00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:21,720
So it's yeah, it's just, that's 
what everyone talks about when 

90
00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:26,320
the price goes up. 
You can see the declining grades

91
00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:32,920
and oz output at Karasu Dam a 
little bit back down to 2.6 for 

92
00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,080
the underground grade. 
They did point out in the call 

93
00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,960
that it was part of the mining 
sequence. 

94
00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:42,400
It's easy one to say, yeah, 
obviously a high higher open pit

95
00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:44,400
material move. 
Not sure if there were cutbacks 

96
00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,920
or something, but like mill head
grade back down to like bang on 

97
00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:52,440
two grammes a tonne all in 
sustaining costs up 300 bucks an

98
00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:57,480
ounce 2100. 
Always wondering if this trend 

99
00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:02,200
were to continue for lowering 
grades, increase of costs, would

100
00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,680
it get northern start of the 
point when they would consider 

101
00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:10,400
off loading Karasu DM2 the 
logical buyer Amelius for their 

102
00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:15,800
Rebecca Rd project. 
It's. 2100, all in sustaining 

103
00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:20,160
costs almost a 50% margin, Yeah,
these days, so it could be 

104
00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:23,720
worse. 
But you can get that, you hear 

105
00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:25,760
in the episode later with 
Jackie. 

106
00:05:26,280 --> 00:05:28,680
Well, this is when you should be
selling assets, not buying them 

107
00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,600
in a gold price environment. 
Well, I think you've got the the

108
00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:35,040
marketing challenge of not 
hitting 2 million oz then, yeah.

109
00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,120
That's it, that's it And that 
that's why I guess and we always

110
00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:42,640
come back to that point of just 
seems like it's not never going 

111
00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,200
to happen, but not in the short 
term that they're ever going to 

112
00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,080
offline this. 
Yeah, yeah, playing the waiting 

113
00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:49,760
game for sure. 
You've been tracking the 

114
00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,360
declining great at John D Last 
time they reported too did. 

115
00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,400
You so it wasn't too I looked it
was 3 point. 

116
00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:55,760
Three. 
OK. 

117
00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,240
So yeah, yeah, that. 
Programme looked all right. 

118
00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:02,240
Yeah, it was pretty buddy. 
Yeah, it just doesn't as you 

119
00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,840
say, JD to where you take 2100 
at the moment. 

120
00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:09,320
So you would it's, they're not 
going to go on and give it away,

121
00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:10,960
that's for sure. 
Because the bargaining chip 

122
00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:15,680
they've got against Remelius is 
the the water infrastructure 

123
00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,960
installed by Greenlands from the
Southern Ball field. 

124
00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:19,360
Interesting. 
That's right. 

125
00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:20,680
Interesting. 
Tell me, Tell me about. 

126
00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:25,000
This well, like you could say 
that probably adding 100 million

127
00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,560
to the price tag like because 
you look at all the work that 

128
00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,120
Greenlands did there at Carousel
Dam, like the bloody 

129
00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,520
redevelopment of the existing 
ball fields that like supply the

130
00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,840
ball pumps and the transfer pump
station, right. 

131
00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,920
Another example of generation 7 
AI driven Tele telemetry and 

132
00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:46,280
leak detection systems. 
Well, that's like unparalleled, 

133
00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,200
but how do you it's amazing the 
water and I've heard that the 

134
00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:53,240
water pipes I install are like 
those BMW car tyres, effectively

135
00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,800
self healing and puncher proof 
like that is like just state of 

136
00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,800
the art water infrastructure. 
So it'll be the first time in M 

137
00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,080
and A history where water 
infrastructure will have such a 

138
00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,080
large effect on the price tag 
and the outcome. 

139
00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,120
I believe so. 
Could have been something else 

140
00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,960
to keep in mind. 
Could be in the poison pill. 

141
00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,920
You know, we're gonna, we're 
gonna use Greenlands to just 

142
00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,160
make all of this super jazzy and
then they're, they're not going 

143
00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,560
to pay up for what this is worth
now as a result. 

144
00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,120
Yeah, when you're not working 
over a poison pill, they're like

145
00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,920
a yeah, Yeah, they're like a 
panadine Fort. 

146
00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:25,600
Oh, they just make everything 
better. 

147
00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,120
It's definitely better, yeah. 
Definitely better. 

148
00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:30,600
It's definitely. 
Better right Metals X. 

149
00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,000
Yeah. 
So, yeah, I think, I think it's 

150
00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,720
been a bit too long since we've 
spoken about the Mighty Meadows 

151
00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,280
X So worth worth a little 
chinwag again, they're trading 

152
00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,320
around 43 cents. 
They're doing all right at the 

153
00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:45,040
moment. 
Pardon me. 

154
00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,400
So Renison had a record tin 
production quarter. 

155
00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:50,480
So things are actually looking 
pretty good. 

156
00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,440
I'll just start quickly on the 
operational side of things, they

157
00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:58,920
mind two point or they produced 
rather 2.9000 tonnes of tin at 

158
00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:02,440
all in cost around 30,000 Aussie
per tonne. 

159
00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,480
Now tin average about 47,000 
Aussies that gives them about a 

160
00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:11,320
$17,000 margin per tonne. 
Obviously Middlesex owned half 

161
00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:15,160
of the the operation there. 
So about 1500 tonnes is their 

162
00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:18,680
share and that kind of equals 
net cash flow of 24 ish 

163
00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,280
$1,000,000 and there's a cut by 
the costs that aren't included 

164
00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:23,720
in that. 
That sort of runs at about $10 

165
00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:28,000
million per annum or two and a 
half $1,000,000 each quarter. 

166
00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,960
So 22 ish million is the cash 
flow. 

167
00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:34,360
The financials themselves 
aren't, aren't the cleanest 

168
00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:38,320
because of the the JV structure,
but those numbers I just said 

169
00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:40,799
are the ones that matter. 
Cash flow was better this 

170
00:08:40,799 --> 00:08:43,360
quarter than it was last 
quarter, which is also good to 

171
00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:47,560
see, especially in the face of 
the tin price being about $2000 

172
00:08:47,560 --> 00:08:50,480
on average lower over this 
quarter. 

173
00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,240
And there's there's one other 
detail to kind of look out for 

174
00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:54,360
you. 
It's kind of confusing when you 

175
00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:56,880
read it at first. 
They report renison 100%, but 

176
00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,520
they own half. 
So in the in the table that they

177
00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,120
show you want to half those 
numbers or just double check 

178
00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:07,760
what you're kind of looking out 
for there on the repurchasing 

179
00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,800
side of their their stock. 
Obviously it was a big deal four

180
00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,200
or five odd months ago when they
announced the buyback, they 

181
00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:18,640
bought back just under 10 
million shares, so about $4 

182
00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:20,040
million. 
I don't think we need to go 

183
00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:21,640
through again. 
They could probably do a bit 

184
00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:23,640
more on that front, but we've 
spoken about that. 

185
00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:25,920
One of the interesting things to
look at though is they paid up 

186
00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,360
to $0.40. 
So I'd be keen as the 

187
00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,520
announcements come out day by 
day and they keep buying back 

188
00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:33,920
the stock, whether they're going
to go over that $0.40 mark or if

189
00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:37,600
that's the sort of internal 
limit they've got in place. 

190
00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:43,200
And just looking at the the 
valuation, so $197 million in 

191
00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:47,360
cash, if you go through the the 
net receivables inventory on it 

192
00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:51,680
and revenue and and payables, 
there's around about $18 

193
00:09:51,680 --> 00:09:55,440
million. 
So a bit over $200 million. 

194
00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:59,480
You could kind of call that in 
cash market cap of 380 million 

195
00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:04,240
that gives you an AV of 170 
million gets a bit better than 

196
00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:05,880
that. 
They've obviously made an 

197
00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:08,120
investment in First Tin and 
they've got a few other in 

198
00:10:08,560 --> 00:10:11,520
investments in like Nico and a 
couple other companies out there

199
00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,280
that they mentioned in the 
quarterly. 

200
00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,080
But like most things it's sort 
of screens cheap for a reason. 

201
00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,160
They again talk about maybe they
will do M&A, they're looking at 

202
00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:23,480
base metals and a couple other 
things, but always a a super, 

203
00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,360
super interesting company to 
keep tabs on. 

204
00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:30,680
Yeah, you look at operating 
operating cash flow, it's 22.7 

205
00:10:30,680 --> 00:10:35,400
million go to annualize that you
get like yeah, ninety 90 million

206
00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:37,120
bucks. 
So that you know 91,000,000 

207
00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:41,600
annualised operating cash flow 
either you said 170 like net off

208
00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,320
the investments. 
You know, depending how you get 

209
00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:48,120
funky with the the the Cyprian 
con note and how you want to 

210
00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:49,600
treat that. 
We can we can just we can just 

211
00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,320
call it an actual EV call it 
call it 150,000,000. 

212
00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,440
Find me lower sort of EV divided
by an operating cash flow 

213
00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,320
multiple and the ASX for for any
company that has like a 10 year 

214
00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:04,800
reserves life. 
I'll be, I'll be shocked, but I 

215
00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,520
can save them for a while. 
It's like the big, the big risk 

216
00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:09,840
is that they, they spend their 
money on something silly and 

217
00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,000
that, you know, there's plenty 
of other risks that we've talked

218
00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:12,960
about in the past. 
But yeah, a. 

219
00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:18,400
Lot of potential though. 
Next cab and taper, the Minari 

220
00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:20,800
scoping study. 
Yeah. 

221
00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,000
So we, we won't run through all 
the numbers money miners can 

222
00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,000
just sort of have a have a 
squeeze through that at their 

223
00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:28,520
leisure. 
But there's a few sort of 

224
00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:32,120
interesting talking points. 
I guess we we spoke a bit about 

225
00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,440
it in the context of of great 
land infrastructure is one of 

226
00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:36,720
those interesting talking 
points. 

227
00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:38,400
The the roads are a bit cooked 
out there. 

228
00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:40,520
They need a bit of work on them.
Obviously. 

229
00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:45,640
The other key point to talk 
about is the, the fact or the 

230
00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:47,840
question rather, do they need to
build a mill? 

231
00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:51,560
So they're analysing a 3,000,000
tonne per annum stand alone 

232
00:11:51,560 --> 00:11:53,520
scenario here in the scoping 
study. 

233
00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:58,920
Pre production capital is 300 
million, about 1/3 of that goes 

234
00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,760
towards the process plant. 
They've got about 90 of that 

235
00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,680
going towards pre production 
mining capital. 

236
00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,640
So that that is a sort of point 
of debate and other people in 

237
00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,360
the area can sort of run their 
own numbers over it. 

238
00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,400
But the stock has had a pretty 
decent run of late. 

239
00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,280
You look, you know, zoomed out 
the past couple months and the 

240
00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,480
thing sort of 3X now. 
Obviously you got the great land

241
00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:23,040
deal happening in the vicinity 
there. 

242
00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:27,080
You've got Antapen themselves 
signing off the deal with Rio 

243
00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,120
over Citadel. 
That'll sort of net them 

244
00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:33,040
17,000,000 bucks in cash and 
then you've got gold price 

245
00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:37,560
running, so 3.1 cents. 
They kept at about $130 million 

246
00:12:38,560 --> 00:12:40,200
once they wrapped up that Rio 
deal. 

247
00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,680
Like I said, 17,000,000 that'll 
take their cash to 23 ish 

248
00:12:43,680 --> 00:12:48,000
million leaves them with an AV 
of $110 million. 

249
00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:53,160
There's also so that there's 4.7
billion shares outstanding 850 

250
00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:57,600
ish million options, 650 now 
well in the money now that the 

251
00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,960
the stocks run up a decent bit. 
So if the the stock holds up at 

252
00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:05,440
this level, wouldn't be sort of 
surprised to see about 14% 

253
00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:10,080
dilution over the period. 
Sort of they've got staggered 

254
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,280
expiry dates from 25 to sort of 
2026. 

255
00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:16,840
But yeah, I think that'd be a 
bit more dilution. 

256
00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:18,840
But all like it's still pretty 
interesting to look at. 

257
00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,280
And I think the, the real kind 
of chat to have here is like 

258
00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,480
what, what happens next? 
So we've heard a couple rumours 

259
00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,240
that Great Land, oh, I think 
Antipa would put these ones out 

260
00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,880
there that Great Land might use 
them to make their way onto the 

261
00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,800
ASXI Think there's sort of 
various tax reasons and other 

262
00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,040
sort of implications why that 
might not be the, the most 

263
00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:42,760
sensible kind of way to go for 
Great Land to get themselves on 

264
00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,120
to the ASX. 
Also sort of worth noting, this 

265
00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,360
is just a, a scoping study. 
I know it's in the area, but 

266
00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:51,920
the, the numbers are ±35 odd 
percent. 

267
00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:56,320
So yeah, I mean it's. 1-2 
hundred percent since since the 

268
00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:58,360
Greatland deal a month ago, 
which is, yeah, kind of 

269
00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:02,280
remarkable, yeah. 
Yeah, I mean, in the in the, in 

270
00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,040
the context of gold price 
running hard as well, maybe a 

271
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:09,160
few of these sort of juniors 
having a bit more attention put 

272
00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:10,960
on them. 
But it feels like all of a 

273
00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,480
sudden a heap of people are 
looking at at that sort of 

274
00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,280
Patterson province and, you 
know, maybe gold sort of 

275
00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,560
developers or small caps more 
broadly, right? 

276
00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:22,560
I reckon there's no mill getting
built there. 

277
00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,960
It's going to Telfer, that's 
just 100% certain. 

278
00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:29,080
Yeah, I reckon that that that 
did like whether whether there's

279
00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,560
a merger with Ireland or not, I 
reckon it all depends on like 

280
00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,080
realistically what are what is 
the time frame you could 

281
00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,800
actually get that that fade into
the middle like other permitting

282
00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:40,240
challenges that are actually 
going to blow out. 

283
00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,360
And when you've got a bit of a, 
you know, a fall off in the 

284
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:44,800
mining schedule that could be 
filled. 

285
00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,200
Can you actually get the anti 
war in there at that point in 

286
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,280
time? 
If not, then wait longer. 

287
00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,080
Yeah. 
And I'd be good to sort of say 

288
00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,040
where whether they kind of go 
like scoping study. 

289
00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,320
The, the, the historical sort of
timeline from scoping study to 

290
00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,680
to getting something in 
production in, in racing times 

291
00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,360
is quite a few years. 
So we came to see if they sort 

292
00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,520
of expedite things, Maybe they 
sort of skip a study phase or 

293
00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,680
something like that and really 
start putting some of that that 

294
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,800
money they got in the ground and
use some of the new found love 

295
00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,600
to maybe raise a bit more in 
time and really hit things hard.

296
00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:21,160
Kind of say, I'm sure. 
Yeah, the conversations have 

297
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,600
picked up a bit of pace in in 
recent times in the boardroom 

298
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:25,720
there. 
I think it's you think it's 

299
00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:27,320
simple. 
You think right, they're just 

300
00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:31,040
going to mine it, crush it, 
truck it to Telfa, no cyanide, 

301
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,440
no process, play it, no tailings
management, anything. 

302
00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:40,280
But speaking to a person like an
MD going through the the same 

303
00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,440
process at the moment, they 
think you think it's simple, but

304
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,880
it's still waiting in line, 
waiting for the permits in the 

305
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,760
department to review it. 
And you're just like might take 

306
00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,720
six months to for a movement to 
look at it even if it's simple. 

307
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,200
So that's the headwinds those 
companies have got in our great 

308
00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:58,920
country. 
Crazy. 

309
00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,480
I mean, I do think these guys 
have plenty of work themselves 

310
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,760
that they they need to be done 
in the in their own time. 

311
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:09,320
But even when we get to that 
stage, yeah, it's just bloody 

312
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,240
hard work, right? 
Should we get into the? 

313
00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:16,480
You have a good summary at the 
start. 

314
00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:18,240
To Jake. 
Yeah, we actually talk a little 

315
00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:20,600
bit about some of that, you 
know, government stuff going on.

316
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:21,760
So you'll, you'll enjoy it, 
Maddie. 

317
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:24,360
Let's do it. 
Let's go. 

318
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,160
Jake Klein, thank you for for 
coming. 

319
00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,360
Last time we spoke was in, I 
think was in the front bar of 

320
00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,680
Debos. 
Actually, I felt I was like, and

321
00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:34,560
here we are now you're sitting 
in front of our bar in our 

322
00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,400
studio. 
Welcome to money of mine. 

323
00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:39,880
We're yeah, stoked, stoked to 
speak with you again. 

324
00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,120
Thanks, Travis. 
Really happy to be here, shows 

325
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,960
you the success you've had. 
We're now in a proper studio. 

326
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,600
It's very professional. 
I appreciate that. 

327
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:52,320
Yeah. 
No, we, yeah, not, not in Kaggol

328
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:54,400
anymore. 
But last time we spoke as well, 

329
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,040
you were you were pitching the 
merit of, of gold to be cool 

330
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,720
again. 
Gold is now cool again. 

331
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,960
It's very cool. 
So you know, keen, keen to keen 

332
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:08,000
to know what's on your mind 
again now that you know your 

333
00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:10,280
your prophecy to make gold call 
again is actually true. 

334
00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:12,160
It might be a bit too sexy. 
I don't know what your thoughts 

335
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:13,680
are on that. 
Yeah. 

336
00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,560
I mean, I think, you know, 
there's lots of reasons why we 

337
00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:20,079
can debate why the gold price is
going to go higher and I think 

338
00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,920
it may well, but from a gold 
miners perspective, we're 

339
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,079
entering kind of a high risk 
phase for gold miners. 

340
00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:31,440
This is the time, you know that 
gold miners have proven 

341
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:35,040
themselves when the gold price 
is as high as this to be poor 

342
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:39,560
custodians of capital, and I'd 
hate us to do that again. 

343
00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:45,960
So I think I'm nervous because 
the 4th $4000 gold price is 

344
00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:50,840
phenomenal, but I think 
investors still remember the 

345
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,760
skies they have from the last 
time the gold price is high. 

346
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:57,040
The sector weren't good 
custodians of capital and we've 

347
00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:58,560
got to prove them wrong this 
time. 

348
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,400
Do you think, do you think the 
sector will be able to do that 

349
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,080
or do you think that, you know, 
human behaviour was just, it's 

350
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,480
just the way it is. 
People are short term instead of

351
00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:10,640
our short term motivated short 
term thinking and they want 

352
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,560
growth for growth's sake because
they're incentivized on 

353
00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:15,360
production targets or or 
whatnot. 

354
00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,400
I'm concerned because the 
narrative that we've heard from 

355
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,480
investors, even if you look at 
say evolution where it was, you 

356
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,920
know, we've been through a tough
period for the last couple of 

357
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:26,880
years. 
We've had a decent couple of 

358
00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:28,920
quarters. 
This last quarter was 

359
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,120
particularly good. 
We're making money and the 

360
00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:34,040
narrative wins a little bit from
some investors. 

361
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,680
You know well done, you've 
delivered, but how you going to 

362
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:39,920
grow now? 
And I think that's high risk 

363
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,920
from our perspective. 
We just want to bank that money.

364
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,480
If you look at Evolution and you
think we're producing 750,000 

365
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:53,760
odd ounces of gold and the gold 
price is $700.00 higher roughly 

366
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:57,840
than what we planned, we should 
have $500 million more cash in 

367
00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:01,280
the bank in 12 months time if 
the gold price stays like this. 

368
00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,040
And I think that to me is going 
to be the asset test from 

369
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,840
investors. 
Can gold miners convert the high

370
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:09,960
gold price into money in the 
bank? 

371
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:12,560
Yeah. 
Or you know, even more 

372
00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:17,080
explicitly, can they convert it 
into returns to shareholders as 

373
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,840
a, you know, as opposed to a 
kind of, yeah, I think, I think 

374
00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,200
the gold industry in particular 
has a tendency to want to want 

375
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:28,240
to grow via acquisition or, or 
or you know, expansion or 

376
00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:31,760
etcetera, all these kind of 
other inorganic or organic 

377
00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:33,960
potentials. 
But they don't often think about

378
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:38,080
use of capital in in dividend, 
dividends and buybacks and 

379
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,440
afterthought in industry. 
We have generally been put 

380
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,360
custodians of shareholders 
capital. 

381
00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:48,880
When the gold price is high, we 
tend to spend it quickly and 

382
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,800
then realise when the gold price
is low, maybe we spent it too 

383
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,080
quickly. 
So evolution is very focused on 

384
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,240
trying to be counter cyclical. 
That's what we've said right 

385
00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,400
from the beginning. 
You know, when the gold price is

386
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,840
high, we should be banking the 
cash and that's what we're 

387
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,120
trying to do. 
Now the gold price is low and 

388
00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:07,960
you've got potentially some 
distressed or motivated sellers.

389
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:10,080
That's when we should be 
acquiring things. 

390
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:15,720
So I think my. 
Mantra is there is a time for 

391
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,680
deals and there is a time for 
making money and now is a time 

392
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:23,960
for making money. 
We had some questions for you as

393
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,160
well, Jake, around just some 
some broader issues in the, in 

394
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:31,000
the mining sector. 
You know, it feels like we're a 

395
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:35,360
bit of a crossroads here in 
Australia between where, you 

396
00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:38,400
know, in action and trying to, 
you know, achieve these sort of 

397
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:42,120
green ambitions. 
And then, but actually, you 

398
00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:45,280
know, developing and investing 
in the, in the mining sector and

399
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,000
downstream capabilities and, and
things like that. 

400
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,160
If, if there's inaction, it's 
going to cost us. 

401
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,840
It feels like everyone knows 
that this is something we should

402
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:59,720
be doing, but no one's really 
taking charge And there's not, 

403
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:05,840
doesn't seem to be a very long 
term view or approach or plan. 

404
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,520
Do you think we're getting the 
politicians are getting too 

405
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,880
caught up in politics? 
Is it the the private sector to 

406
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:15,240
drive? 
How do you how do you sort of 

407
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:20,120
think about all this? 
I think we're at a a fork in the

408
00:21:20,120 --> 00:21:23,880
road. 
We've become obsessed about 

409
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:28,880
short term decision making. 
Maybe it's our election cycle, 

410
00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:31,720
but there are very few things 
that we can agree on on a 

411
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:36,440
bipartisan issue and and a 
bipartisan approach. 

412
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,640
So if you think about it, the 
last 30 years have been 

413
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:42,680
incredibly successful for 
Australia. 

414
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,080
China merged as our largest 
customer. 

415
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:49,560
We've been selling iron ore and 
coal to China and they've had 

416
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:54,160
insatiable demand for it. 
You know, the got the, the, the 

417
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,040
iron ore price when I first 
started in the business 30 years

418
00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,120
ago was 25 bucks a tonne. 
And Australia's producing about 

419
00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:04,160
120 million tonnes a year. 
And today we're producing almost

420
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,800
a billion tonnes and selling it 
to China. 

421
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,880
And the oil price is $100 a 
tonne. 

422
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:14,720
So that's 33 times more in terms
of revenue. 

423
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:20,320
The mining industry has 
delivered $365 billion in fiscal

424
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:26,440
tax windfall to the government 
of Australia and that has put 

425
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:31,400
Australia, you know, at the very
top of global GB GDP per capita 

426
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,120
rankings. 
We are a rich and wealthy 

427
00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:36,680
country. 
My concern is how do we future 

428
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,680
proof the next 50 years because 
our resources are going to get 

429
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:42,720
more difficult and challenging 
to mine. 

430
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,040
The world seems to have changed 
where globalisation is 

431
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:52,640
effectively over and China is 
has emerged as a very 

432
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,200
significant competitor in terms 
of resources. 

433
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,320
If you look at the companies 
that they've created, Zigene is 

434
00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:03,200
a $67 billion company. 
This is a company that was a 

435
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:08,760
state owned enterprise 20 years 
ago and they have a very good 

436
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:13,440
access to cheap capital. 
They very ambitious and they 

437
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:14,960
have very strong government 
support. 

438
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,120
And so if you're in Africa today
and you're trying to secure 

439
00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:20,800
ground in Africa, your biggest 
competition is going to come 

440
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:25,600
from Chinese competitors. 
It's one of the, yeah, one of 

441
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,680
the one of the few places a with
excellent ore bodies, but where,

442
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,440
you know, the Chinese are 
allowed to actually still still 

443
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,320
acquire projects as well. 
Yeah. 

444
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,240
So if you think about it, I was 
involved in China in the in in 

445
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,360
the 90s and 2000s in a period of
amazing collaboration and 

446
00:23:41,360 --> 00:23:43,840
cooperation between China and 
Australia. 

447
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,680
It was like a sense that, you 
know, China's definitely going 

448
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,400
to integrate into the world and 
it it didn't happen and it 

449
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,360
hasn't happened. 
And China has used that period 

450
00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:58,320
to create these companies, 
fortify itself and kind of go 

451
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,480
almost on a separate path. 
Maybe they've been more 

452
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,760
successful than we have, but our
incapacity of being able to 

453
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:09,200
think any longer than one 
election cycle seems to be a 

454
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,440
massive disadvantage to us if 
we're dealing with a competitor,

455
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,480
strategic competitor, that is 
thinking long term and investing

456
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:19,760
long term. 20 years ago feels 
like such a a different time as 

457
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,560
well, right? 
Because that the when when you 

458
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:29,320
were running Sino gold, the 
yeah, this is an an ASX 100 

459
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:33,760
company at the end which which 
had mines in China. 

460
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:38,320
It's kind of a bizarre thought 
these days that, you know, that 

461
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,800
sort of vehicle would even exist
on on the ASX. 

462
00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:43,960
Yeah, it was. 
I mean it was an amazing 

463
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,960
experience. 
It was crazy. 

464
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,280
There are, it was formed by a 
few investment bankers from 

465
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,200
Macquarie in the 90s, myself and
Nick Curtis and a couple of 

466
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,240
people, we went to China. 
We knew nothing about mining and

467
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,520
we knew nothing about China. 
And Nick is an amazingly 

468
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,120
optimistic entrepreneur. 
He said, you know, do you think 

469
00:25:08,120 --> 00:25:11,280
we can build gold mines here? 
And we think we must have been 

470
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:15,520
at a bar because we said yes and
one thing leads to another and 

471
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:17,200
eventually Sign of Gold was 
formed. 

472
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,520
Anyone like Jake out there 
thinking of bloody building 

473
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,360
mines in China anytime soon? 
That's bloody CRE insurance on 

474
00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:25,760
the blower straight away. 
Jesus Christ. 

475
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,560
It took him some minerals to go 
on bloody do that didn't it? 

476
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,880
Saw no gold journey it was. 
A different time mate. 

477
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,080
No one, no one in Australia. 
He's going to be building a mine

478
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,400
in China anytime soon, but they 
will still be looking in places 

479
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,800
where you need bespoke risk to 
be priced. 

480
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,120
The new China's, I mean mate, 
Jackie must have had Steve Tarr 

481
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,440
holding his hand through that 
process. 

482
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,160
I can't think of any other way 
that you would have felt 

483
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,480
comfortable taking that amount 
of risk like some some 

484
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:55,080
sensational insurance breaking 
was in place. 

485
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,760
Like Tari, it's got Tari's name 
written all over it. 

486
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,360
Like as Pete, miners shouldn't 
be scared of international 

487
00:26:01,360 --> 00:26:03,080
mining. 
You don't need to be. 

488
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:08,360
You give Tari a call in CRE 
Insurance Perth headquarters and

489
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,280
it is an international mining 
insurance expert and which means

490
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,520
Australian mining. 
He can just do it with his eyes 

491
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,520
closed, blindfolded, facing the 
other way. 

492
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,040
The more bespoke the risk, the 
the more excited he gets. 

493
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,280
He loves, he loves the SO Derek 
stuff. 

494
00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:24,760
But he still will do the boring 
Australian stuff. 

495
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,000
If you need. 
Him but he does it that quick it

496
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,280
doesn't matter. 
CR insurance, give him a call. 

497
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:31,440
He run his eyes over your 
report. 

498
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,040
Right now. 
Just let him have a look at 

499
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:33,960
yours. 
Free. 

500
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,880
Free. 
So back then the view like it 

501
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,440
was a real, you know, 
globalisation agenda, China was 

502
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,600
opening up to foreign 
investment, you know, like you 

503
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,480
know, the the investment 
community was trying to embrace 

504
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,280
that and capitalise on that. 
Was that the kind of? 

505
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,360
It was but kind of being or 
thinking we were smart Macquarie

506
00:26:53,360 --> 00:26:55,760
bankers, we were thinking about 
an arbitrage. 

507
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,200
So if you think about a plan 
system, which China was at that 

508
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:05,920
time, where the geology wasn't 
really viewed from a market 

509
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,120
perspective. 
So answers in the ground weren't

510
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,680
valued from a market perspective
though, only looked at as units 

511
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,000
of production in a planned 
system. 

512
00:27:14,360 --> 00:27:20,120
So we went to Ginchuan nickel 
mine, which is in the Gobi 

513
00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:22,720
Desert. 
This was in 1994. 

514
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,200
And we were have one of the 
plates of that was served for 

515
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,880
dinner was a camel's foot, which
we were told was a delicacy. 

516
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,880
I'm still trying to get over it,
but there are obviously a lot of

517
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,520
three legged camels in the 
desert. 

518
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:38,360
But it really was a camel's 
foot. 

519
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,800
And we are being told in all 
seriousness by the president of 

520
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,880
this organisation who is wearing
a mouse suit. 

521
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,240
And I think the ore body, it's, 
it's one of the massive nickel 

522
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:57,640
ore bodies in the world that 
their production crew minds one 

523
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,600
level every couple of years. 
And the development crew, you 

524
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,640
know, develops 2 levels a year. 
And we kind of said, like, you 

525
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,680
know, how many levels ahead is 
the development crew? 

526
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,720
And he, we worked out, it was 
kind of like 12 years. 

527
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,560
They developed the mind 12 years
ahead of where they're going to 

528
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:15,880
produce. 
And we kind of said why? 

529
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,800
And he said, well, you know, the
development crew develops and 

530
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,320
the production crew produces and
that's how it works. 

531
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:27,520
So they were really in a planned
system at the time and we kind 

532
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,240
of saw that as an arbitrage. 
You know, if we could get people

533
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,040
to understand the value of 
what's in the ground, then 

534
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,280
there's clearly a a value 
uplift. 

535
00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:42,560
I think what we underestimated 
is how smart China China was and

536
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,480
how they weren't going to sit do
what Russia did, which was 

537
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,480
privatise all of their assets 
and, and, and basically put it 

538
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,160
into private hands. 
They allowed us to experiment, 

539
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,360
I'd say on kind of B grade 
deposits and build the first 

540
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,240
foreign owned gold mines in 
China. 

541
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:05,040
The safety standards that we 
implemented at our first mine, I

542
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,040
think have formed the foundation
of the National Safety standard.

543
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:13,880
So people were learning, 
listening, utilising and yeah, 

544
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,720
it, it was amazing. 
But you know China today has 

545
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:21,960
learnt not only from US but from
going outside of China and these

546
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,960
companies like Zijin Jajin, 
Shandong Gold or formidable 

547
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,160
competitors. 
Yeah, wow. 

548
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:32,040
So it's funny you went there 
with a view because you thought 

549
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,040
there was an arbitrage because 
they didn't know how to mine 

550
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,800
properly. 
But really, the Chinese were 

551
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:38,960
using you as the arbitrage to 
learn how to mine properly and 

552
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,400
apply it everywhere. 
Else, I think that's well said. 

553
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,680
We didn't realise it, but yeah, 
we thought we we were doing the 

554
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,480
smart thing. 
Yeah, yeah. 

555
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:54,880
And I guess in contrast to 
Australia and, and, and policy, 

556
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,560
you know, making and, and 
affecting policy here. 

557
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:03,120
Do you think and just sort of in
reference to sort of the Regis 

558
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:07,040
situation earlier this year with
Mcphillimy's, do you think our 

559
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,880
government is adequately 
educated and informed about the 

560
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,400
the practicalities of mining and
how mining actually works in 

561
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,600
order to actually put these 
policies in place and and affect

562
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,120
them appropriately? 
No, I don't. 

563
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,720
I, I think that was a terrible 
decision and I think it's 

564
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,480
something we've got to address 
that something so late in the in

565
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:32,840
the process comes up and causes 
the project to approvals to be 

566
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,800
rescinded because NSW has one of
the most rigorous approval 

567
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:41,440
processes in the world and Regis
went through that only to have 

568
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,920
it overturned at the last hurdle
by a federal decision. 

569
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,480
So I don't think so. 
I think the other thing that we 

570
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,960
as a, as an industry need to do 
more of is educates, 

571
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:57,600
particularly E coasters, about 
the value that mining is 

572
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,800
contributing to this country. 
It only employs 2% of the 

573
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,200
workforce, but our contribution 
is in double digits. 

574
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,640
And this country just would not 
be where it is today without 

575
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,360
mining. 
So I, I don't think we sell it 

576
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:17,240
well enough and I don't think 
our reputation is what it should

577
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:23,600
be in decision makers who have, 
who have the ability to do to 

578
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,880
make decisions like this. 
I mean, the, yeah, the, the, the

579
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,160
Regis ones like the, the 
standout, you know, but there's,

580
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,720
there's other examples of sort 
of similar stuff happening here 

581
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:39,440
in Australia elsewhere as well. 
And it, it, it feels like a 

582
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:43,760
complete disconnect from, you 
know, the, the big thinkers who 

583
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,840
set the policies or enact the 
policies versus what's actually 

584
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:49,960
required from a certainty 
perspective to make an 

585
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,920
investment decision. 
Yeah, I'd, I'd say that 

586
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,800
Australia's still, you know, 
once you have the permits and 

587
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,440
once it's approved, you can 
sleep easy at night that you own

588
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,560
the asset. 
You know, in China I had plenty 

589
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:02,920
of sleepless nights wondering 
whether I was going to wake up 

590
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,080
the next morning and we didn't 
own the asset. 

591
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,320
So it is a great mining 
jurisdiction, but I think we 

592
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,720
have the opportunity to make it 
greater and decisions like what 

593
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,480
happened with Regis detract from
that. 

594
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,120
Yeah. 
Would you say Australia is 

595
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,760
getting sovereign risk? 
No, wouldn't I? 

596
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,160
I still think Australia is a 
great place to mine. 

597
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,920
Yes, it may be becoming more 
difficult to permit, but I think

598
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:31,240
again, we need to do more as an 
industry to educate E coasters. 

599
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,720
I have young adult children, you
know, and their peers, they 

600
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,840
don't understand mining other 
than it paid for their schooling

601
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,800
and education, my kids. 
But I, I, I think we can do more

602
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:48,000
to, to, to get them to recognise
that mining is so critical for 

603
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,440
this green energy future that 
we're all talking about and 

604
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,880
committed to. 
Mining is critical to the 

605
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,640
success of this country and is 
part of the future of this 

606
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,680
country. 
And do you think that's also 

607
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:05,920
quite a large contributing 
factor to sort of the not the 

608
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,960
the talent pool that probably 
isn't growing as fast as it 

609
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,920
should be entering into the 
mining industry as well sort of 

610
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:16,040
this wokeness in in some ways? 
Yeah, I do. 

611
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,880
I think it's terrible that there
are fewer positions in 

612
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,680
universities today in the 
geosciences and mining 

613
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,640
engineering than there was a 
decade ago. 

614
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:30,600
That's that's terrible. 
It's not setting ourselves up 

615
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,600
for the future. 
If you think about opportunities

616
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,720
in Australia, you think about, 
you know, what can we do to 

617
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,600
value add these metals that 
we're mining? 

618
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,240
Why are we happy to kind of ship
everything offshore and have it 

619
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,480
processed elsewhere? 
Education, I think is an 

620
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:52,400
opportunity for us to be the 
kind of the Ivy League standard 

621
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,080
of education globally. 
Same with capsule markets. 

622
00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:00,320
If you think about resources and
the fact that the tech space has

623
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:05,280
grown so much that resources is 
kind of less relevant to a New 

624
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,080
York fund manager, but in this 
country, it's so important. 

625
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:12,080
We could be the epicentre of 
capital and debt markets for 

626
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,960
global capital raising. 
So I think there's a tremendous 

627
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,480
opportunity. 
I'd love people in the tech 

628
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,480
space, young people who are 
thinking about the next 

629
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,159
breakthrough in technology, to 
be thinking about mining, but 

630
00:34:24,159 --> 00:34:25,400
they're not. 
They're thinking about 

631
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,040
deliveries, you know, from pizza
restaurants. 

632
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,239
I even think of it like, you 
know, if you're a young and 

633
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,480
hungry young person, you always 
want to be running in the 

634
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,679
direction where like everyone 
else is running away from. 

635
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,639
So way easier to compete in a 
small pond like. 

636
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:47,480
Yeah. 
Well, you guys are have 

637
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,199
recognised that and have done an
amazing job in building this 

638
00:34:50,199 --> 00:34:52,199
business. 
So you know why and more people 

639
00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:56,239
seeing the opportunity which you
saw in the mining space to not 

640
00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:00,040
necessarily be miners or or or 
or a mining company or mining 

641
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,280
contractors, but here's a is 
podcasting technology. 

642
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:05,880
Yeah, I think so. 
Media. 

643
00:35:06,240 --> 00:35:09,360
Technology, you guys have done 
that and and you've created a 

644
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,800
business. 
So more people doing this would 

645
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:13,800
be fantastic. 
Yeah, don't, don't encourage the

646
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:15,360
competition, Jack. 
No, no, I did. 

647
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,280
I did. 
I did hear, I think Michael 

648
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,320
Vaughan was telling me on our 
way in here that he was talking 

649
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,000
to someone overseas who said 
yeah, they always listen to your

650
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:23,880
podcast. 
Yeah. 

651
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,600
You mentioned the, the building 
out the sort of downstream 

652
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,800
capabilities or you know, those 
other pieces of the value chain 

653
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,960
which you know, certainly aren't
as present in Australia compared

654
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,600
to you know, China and other 
places. 

655
00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:41,800
You know, we've seen, you know, 
some companies make an attempt 

656
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,840
at it and it's just proved 
hopefully, you know, expensive 

657
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,360
and taken a lot of time and 
things like that, which 

658
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,520
certainly doesn't incentivise 
much, much others to go about 

659
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,320
it. 
But you know, it certainly needs

660
00:35:55,320 --> 00:36:00,480
to needs to happen. 
So do you think does the 

661
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:05,360
government sort of step in here?
Do do private, you know, the 

662
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:07,720
private sector just need to just
go for it? 

663
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,480
You know, how do you sort of see
that going forward in Australia?

664
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,600
I don't think the private sector
will just be able to go for it 

665
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,880
because at the moment those 
projects don't make the returns 

666
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,600
which private capital requires. 
So it needs some sort of 

667
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,120
government support. 
And there's a debate to be had 

668
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,480
as to where that government 
support should be. 

669
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,120
But fundamentally, if you think 
about, and this is a maybe a 

670
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,320
strange way to look at it, but 
maybe the paradigm has changed. 

671
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,120
You know, in the in the 70s, 
Australia had a manufacturing 

672
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:40,240
sector that all got, you know, 
demolished really by China's 

673
00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:42,200
emergence. 
And everything now is 

674
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,680
manufactured and produced in 
China essentially. 

675
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,800
But if if you think about 
technology in the next 20 years 

676
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,240
and you think about our 
aspiration, maybe we can 

677
00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:55,000
actually deliver it on green 
energy, which should be cheaper 

678
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:59,400
once it's been built. 
If you can provide cheap green 

679
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:03,200
energy and you can use 
technology, maybe manufacturing 

680
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:07,960
or processing, downstream 
processing is not as far out of 

681
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,360
reach as we think. 
But it requires a different 

682
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:14,040
paradigm and it requires a 
commitment from government to 

683
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,920
support that sort of initiative 
in things that really 

684
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:21,200
strategically are well thought 
through and then can deliver 

685
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,680
returns on capital. 
Yeah, I'm, I'm a, I'm a cynic on

686
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:27,920
that one. 
Yeah, yeah, I I just think that 

687
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,680
like history is littered with 
times where government has tried

688
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,960
to, to prop up a, a sector that 
doesn't stack up in the private 

689
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,080
markets. 
And then you you are the lead to

690
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:43,000
inevitable like subsidies that 
never end, like regulatory 

691
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,480
capture, all the things that 
don't actually create a 

692
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:47,720
competitive industry in the 1st 
place. 

693
00:37:47,720 --> 00:37:50,560
Think government should do 
everything they can to make the 

694
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,480
private sector returns better by
investing in infrastructure that

695
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:55,960
could, you know, reduce the 
cost? 

696
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,640
But I will perennially advocate 
that the government doesn't sort

697
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,800
of, you know. 
So I think, I think, I think, I 

698
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,520
think that's a fairpoint. 
But so part of the 

699
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,080
infrastructure is this 
transition to green energy. 

700
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,480
So if you think about all the 
commitments we have at the 

701
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,840
moment in terms of delivery of 
that green energy, I, I think we

702
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,720
need to have a conversation 
about the time frames which 

703
00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:21,080
people expect to be delivered 
and the cost of it, because 

704
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:25,360
we're talking about the 
replacement of a significant 

705
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,000
piece of national 
infrastructure. 

706
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:33,560
At the moment we have federal 
targets, but the delivery of 

707
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:38,000
that federal target is actually 
is dependent on each state 

708
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:42,080
delivering to their target, 
which is not necessarily in 

709
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:43,840
aligned with the federal 
targets. 

710
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,840
So if you take the federal 
target, I think it's 43% 

711
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:52,520
reduction by 20-30. 
I think NSW is 50% by 2030. 

712
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:58,240
I think Queensland is 75% or 80%
by 2035. 

713
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,640
If you think about the Snowy 
Hydro projects, it started with 

714
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,080
a $2 billion budget and it's now
at least 12, maybe 14, and who 

715
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:11,360
knows what it's going to cost to
finish All of the projects to 

716
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,120
deliver those targets should 
have been started now, and none 

717
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,960
of them have. 
So if we committed to, you've 

718
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,640
got to build out 32 gigawatts of
power, I think in each of the 

719
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,920
next three decades, and 32 
gigawatts is a lot of power. 

720
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:29,240
You've got to put transmission 
lines across a lot of Australia 

721
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,560
because you're talking about a 
dispersed grid. 

722
00:39:32,720 --> 00:39:35,280
Just as an example, at Mount 
Rawdon, we're talking about this

723
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,320
converting our project to a 
pumped hydro project. 

724
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:42,000
There's a transmission line of 
27 kilometres which covers 15 

725
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,800
land owners and it's taken us 
two years of extensive 

726
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,720
engagement with those land 
owners to get about 14 of the 15

727
00:39:49,720 --> 00:39:53,680
on board. 
Yeah, it's not a hold out, but 

728
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:55,200
we can, we can take it around 
there. 

729
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,720
But it's taken 2 years to talk 
about 27 kilometres of 

730
00:39:58,720 --> 00:40:01,680
transmission light. 
My point is, is that there's 

731
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:06,160
only two ways that this that the
energy can be funded either tax 

732
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,280
today. 
Or higher power price prices 

733
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:12,280
later, which is unacceptable. 
So, you know, we've got to pay 

734
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,680
for the infrastructure, we've 
got to agree who's going to pay 

735
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,920
for it. 
But then it should be cheap 

736
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:22,120
green power in the future. 
Should be, should be, yeah, 

737
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,560
Should be, should be, should be.
But yeah. 

738
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,680
And there's a, there's a trade 
off on the capital intensity of 

739
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:29,800
the infrastructure investment in
the 1st place. 

740
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:34,640
Like, you know, if if we adopted
A and and and nuclear strategy, 

741
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,280
then that's arguably less 
capital intensive. 

742
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,040
There's less transmission lines 
required. 

743
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,520
Yeah. 
And, and I'm all supportive of 

744
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:42,920
everything being put on the 
table. 

745
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,600
My, my issue at the moment is 
that we have these targets, but 

746
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,000
we have no real plan as to how 
we're going to deliver those 

747
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:50,520
targets. 
And we don't understand how much

748
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:54,320
it's really going to cost. 
Governments are there and, and 

749
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,240
just going back to your point, 
governments are there to 

750
00:40:57,240 --> 00:40:59,520
implement and deliver that 
infrastructure. 

751
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,320
Now, you know, nuclear should be
on the table. 

752
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,160
All of the stuff should be on 
the table and we should have a 

753
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:10,040
comprehensive nationwide plan, 
not a kind of target announced 

754
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:13,760
before an election with no 
understanding of how to deliver.

755
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:18,840
Yeah, while we are, while we 
still got you, Jack, I can't, I 

756
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:22,840
can't let you leave without 
talking about deals. 

757
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:28,960
Evolution is a, you know, a 
company that's got a reputation 

758
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:32,200
for being, you know, like a deal
doer both, both acquisitions, 

759
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,280
divestments, you know, the whole
works. 

760
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,920
And the company's been awfully 
quiet since the acquisition of 

761
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,400
North Parks. 
And, you know, like for it was 

762
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,440
about about 12 months ago that 
that acquisition was announced 

763
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,400
maybe December last year, 
December, December. 

764
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,440
So yeah, nearly nearly 12 
months. 

765
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:53,720
And there was, you know, like a 
bit of a shaky period in the 

766
00:41:53,720 --> 00:41:57,400
market there share price, you 
know, fell off bad quarterly 

767
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:02,360
came out in in January, then 
gold rebounded strongly and kind

768
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,360
of the the, the balance sheet 
sort of fears faded And you 

769
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,280
know, the business is pretty, 
pretty cash generative again and

770
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:12,320
sort of happy days. 
Does that mean that you know 

771
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:17,080
deals are back on the table? 
Not really because I think if, 

772
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:20,760
if we think in a kind of 
cyclical way, you know, now is 

773
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,240
not a time to be doing deals. 
The gold price is high, the 

774
00:42:23,240 --> 00:42:25,800
copper price is high. 
There's no distressed sellers 

775
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:27,760
out there. 
They're anxious buyers. 

776
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,320
I think in this type of market, 
you've been better off being a 

777
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,920
seller than a buyer. 
But just going back to the North

778
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,400
Parks acquisition, you know, we 
think it's it's an outstanding 

779
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:38,920
deal. 
I think investors are starting 

780
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,440
to understand it. 
But it was a pretty bruising 

781
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:42,960
deal. 
Like if you're doing deals kind 

782
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:46,920
of cyclically, you know, people 
aren't cheering necessarily at 

783
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,520
the time you do the deal. 
So you really have to have some 

784
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:51,360
fortitude. 
And, and I was surprised because

785
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:56,400
I thought it was going to be a 
really well received deal and it

786
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,240
may have been a whole bunch of 
factors related to it, but it 

787
00:42:59,240 --> 00:43:01,840
was a pretty tough deal to to 
get across the line. 

788
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:06,400
Yeah, like when you acquired 
Cal, everyone thought you paid 

789
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:07,760
too much for that as well, 
right. 

790
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:14,480
And in time sort of Yeah, The, 
the, Yeah, the, I'm, I'm 

791
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:18,280
certainly guilty of this. 
I'm quite critical of, of, yeah,

792
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:20,960
deals where it just like, you 
know, on a multiple perspective 

793
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,920
or even like on a, you know, you
know, peanut perspective or 

794
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,360
whatever. 
It might appear pretty 

795
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,520
expensive, especially if it's a 
competitive sale process as 

796
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:30,440
well. 
I'm like, well, you have to pay 

797
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,720
up for that. 
And then, you know, what I'm 

798
00:43:32,720 --> 00:43:36,000
learning to appreciate of time 
is that the, the, the assets 

799
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,320
that have quite like a very long
life, no expose himself to the 

800
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:42,920
the Super profit period of time 
and pretty prices like flex up 

801
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:46,360
and down and and pay handsomely 
thanks to that. 

802
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:47,800
And you have longevity through 
the cycle too. 

803
00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:50,360
I think so. 
So, you know, I mean, Cal was 

804
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:53,400
actually bigger than our market 
cap when he bought it, but it 

805
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:55,840
was an asset that was really 
going to transform the company. 

806
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,440
And we'd done the deal a couple 
of years earlier or a year 

807
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:02,280
earlier with Najib Sawiris in La
Mancha and he underpinned the 

808
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,040
equity rise. 
And it was always with the 

809
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,920
strategy that he got involved to
try and get this company into a 

810
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:11,400
better space. 
And Cal came along and I don't 

811
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,120
think we could have raised the 
$400 million if he had 

812
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,400
cornerstone it with the $100 
million. 

813
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,160
But just going back to kind of 
what deals make sense, we've 

814
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,240
always said, you know, we'll 
only do things that improve the 

815
00:44:23,240 --> 00:44:26,720
quality of the portfolio and 
that are creative to 

816
00:44:26,720 --> 00:44:28,680
shareholders. 
And I think each deal we've done

817
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:30,960
has. 
But if you're looking at how do 

818
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:36,200
you create value in these deals,
the easiest and best ways from 

819
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:40,400
geological discovery, because 
you're pretty much modelling 

820
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:45,960
what is there and you know, what
is it that gets you that 

821
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,840
geological upside? 
And that's a geology call where 

822
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:52,640
our team has been really good. 
And you know, majors generally 

823
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,920
put themselves in places which 
are geologically most 

824
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,360
prospective. 
And that's been our kind of 

825
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,000
hunting ground buying from 
majors that have established 

826
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,560
themselves. 
But maybe the asset has not been

827
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,840
courted them and they've they've
been a bit distracted and the 

828
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:08,880
asset comes available. 
It's happened at Ernest Henry 

829
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:14,560
with Glenn call Cal from Barrack
N Parks from Seymour and and all

830
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:19,160
of them I'd put in that category
where the real upside is through

831
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,600
the discovery and the and the 
better geological setting then 

832
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,600
people understood because the 
asset has not really been 

833
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,360
profiled. 
I mean, just going back to, you 

834
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:32,840
know, the analysis piece which 
you guys are, are are expert at,

835
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:36,800
you know, one of the things 
which I think is, is challenging

836
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:45,560
is that an NPV model always 
prioritises capital upfront and 

837
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:48,920
penalises long mine life in some
ways. 

838
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:53,600
Because beyond 10 years at a 
discount rate in what 7% you're 

839
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,320
not really getting value for 
anything beyond 10 years. 

840
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,960
And there's always, your model 
always looks better if you can 

841
00:45:59,960 --> 00:46:02,720
bring forward capital and 
accelerate production, which I 

842
00:46:02,720 --> 00:46:04,960
don't think is right from for 
the business. 

843
00:46:05,240 --> 00:46:10,120
Kaepernick put out a, a, a, a, 
yeah, a written piece on that. 

844
00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:12,160
Just that very point, I think. 
Last week I didn't see it. 

845
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:16,560
Yeah. 
But yeah, you're, you're right. 

846
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:18,000
And there's, there's the 
optionality pace. 

847
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,520
Can you accept like what, what 
if you were just to purely 

848
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,440
maximise NAV on a, on a long 
life asset, then you get a NAV 

849
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,800
that's much bigger, but you're 
not going to, you know, all the 

850
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:28,800
cash flows come in, in a 
different phase of life. 

851
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:30,920
And there's, there's a bunch of 
factors. 

852
00:46:31,240 --> 00:46:33,680
But the strategy of, of 
evolution has always been to 

853
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:40,080
like gradually over time make 
the portfolio have lower cost 

854
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,560
assets that have longer life. 
Yeah, everyone wants to do that 

855
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:48,440
and not everyone does do that. 
The the, the, the, but part of 

856
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:51,280
that too is also divesting the 
assets that are in the portfolio

857
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,960
that have the high cost and 
short short of life too. 

858
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,800
So we've divested of three of 
our assets Mandroy and which is 

859
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:00,920
coming to the end of its life as
a gold mine and being converted 

860
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:04,280
to a pumped hydro is the only 
asset that remains from the 

861
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:06,520
original five that we started 
evolution with. 

862
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:09,800
So, you know, we have been happy
sellers of assets. 

863
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,520
We've always tried to keep some 
insurance to make sure that if 

864
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,240
we were wrong that we got paid 
for it. 

865
00:47:15,240 --> 00:47:19,520
And and you know, Cracker, Edna,
May, Pajinga or all assets which

866
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,840
still pay us a royalty or some 
sort of upside given that 

867
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:26,240
they're still operating. 
And how do you find you between 

868
00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:32,080
that sort of approach to your, 
your asset portfolio, how do you

869
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:34,920
sort of balance that with the 
pressure from say investors and 

870
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,200
shareholders to say, oh, what's 
the next step? 

871
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:40,680
How are you going to get bigger 
when getting bigger mightn't 

872
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:43,880
necessarily fit with the 
internal strategy? 

873
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:48,000
Yeah, it's a it's, it's an 
interesting one because I mean, 

874
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:50,560
I think, you know, the most 
important thing which is really 

875
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:55,040
difficult to do is to not listen
to the noise and listen to your 

876
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,520
shareholders because they are 
the owners of the business, but 

877
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:00,320
try and not be distracted by the
noise. 

878
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:03,400
You know, we've had this very 
clear strategy. 

879
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:05,080
It's work. 
The challenge for us at the 

880
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:08,000
moment is that we've actually 
put ourselves into some really 

881
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:12,440
good assets where as you get 
better assets, the degree of 

882
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,080
difficulty in finding assets 
which are better than the assets

883
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,080
that you have is increasingly 
difficult. 

884
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:18,880
And you know, that's the 
challenge. 

885
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,680
So we see a lot of organic 
growth in our portfolio at the 

886
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,960
moment, right at the moment it's
you know, if you think about the

887
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:28,160
processes that are being run for
assets and the values that are 

888
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,240
being obtained for the assets 
that they seem, they seem 

889
00:48:31,240 --> 00:48:35,280
expensive. 
There's 11 like reflection I had

890
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:39,760
when sort of going through the 
the the the history of deals of 

891
00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:43,280
of evolution. 
And it's a shame we don't see 

892
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:48,040
like, you know, deal making is 
as as riveting as as this 

893
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,920
anymore. 
But you know, even even the the 

894
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,080
initial deal which created 
evolution, a lot of ways you 

895
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:57,040
were at you were at conquest, 
which like I think when you 

896
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,360
joined it just had what the 
feasibility study on on Mount 

897
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,160
Carlton. 
You picked up a jingo, but then 

898
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:04,760
you know, you know, an 
interconditional merger with 

899
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,280
Catalpa, which had Edna May and 
30% of Krakow. 

900
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:11,280
But on the exact same 
announcement of that done this 

901
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:14,600
equity raise bring in, you know,
New Crest as a major shareholder

902
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:18,200
and you acquire the other 70% of
Krakow from New Crest plus Mount

903
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:21,560
Rawdon at the exact same time. 
You don't see, yeah, you just 

904
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:23,040
don't see deals like that 
anymore. 

905
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,960
But and then over time, like in 
in evolution and this period of 

906
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:30,040
just like super funky deal 
making, like real funky deal 

907
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:34,280
making, you know, the the like 
La Mancha stuff like, yeah, all 

908
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:35,880
like all of that was like very 
funky. 

909
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,920
But then over time the deal like
the deal making get gets a bit 

910
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:41,760
less sexy, a bit less sexy. 
You know, you're just buying 

911
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:43,720
stuff in sale process and all 
that sort of stuff. 

912
00:49:43,720 --> 00:49:45,240
But that's just a comment on the
whole market. 

913
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:46,960
Deal making is a bit less sexy 
now. 

914
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:50,920
Yeah, I, I'm not sure. 
I mean, just going back to 

915
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,520
Conquest, I mean, we've had a 
really interesting time like so 

916
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:57,280
the, the reason we got involved 
in conquest is because it was a 

917
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:02,120
high, high, high sulfidation 
epithermal deposit, which had 

918
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:07,040
had a feasibility study done on 
it that used a Biox or roasting 

919
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,920
process and found that it would 
be uneconomic. 

920
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:14,200
So we actually in China had 
built a very similar mine where 

921
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:17,400
we'd run out of money and we 
figured out that we could only 

922
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:20,880
sell the concentrate in China. 
So we sell the concentrate and 

923
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:25,920
one of our colleagues who is 
still in evolution ran the Zhang

924
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:29,480
Cha Ling mine it for us in China
or was involved in it. 

925
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:35,640
And he went off to China with a 
few bags of concentrates samples

926
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:39,840
from Mount Carlton and got us an
off take contract which allowed 

927
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:42,920
us to build Man Carlton without 
any of the downstream 

928
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:46,320
processing, you know, the Biox. 
And we just sold concentrate, 

929
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:49,840
which was amazing because Man, 
Carlton made like $100 million 

930
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:52,040
for a few years until it ran out
of gold. 

931
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:56,320
But yeah, I, I don't know. 
I think you know, what are the, 

932
00:50:56,320 --> 00:51:00,120
the, the sort of attributes you 
need in a, in a, in a good deal.

933
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,640
You need a motivated seller. 
And probably at the moment 

934
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:05,880
they're not motivated sellers in
gold and and copper, they're 

935
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:07,040
motivated buyers. 
There's. 

936
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:09,400
A lot of motivated buyers. 
Maybe in lithium there's some 

937
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,120
motivated sellers, but. 
We're not going into. 

938
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:15,560
Lithium, you know, you need a, a
view on the geology. 

939
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,640
And then, and then I think one 
of the challenges in the sector 

940
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:23,000
is I, I, I think people 
management teams have inertia 

941
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:26,760
about doing deals because 
everyone thinks that they're 

942
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:29,840
undervalued and the person 
approaching them is overvalued. 

943
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:34,000
And there needs to be a bit more
kind of collaboration and 

944
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:37,800
boldness in getting deals done. 
That really makes sense for all 

945
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:42,120
sets of shareholders. 
So in that, in that example, 

946
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:47,920
Catalpa, they had the 30% of of 
crack out, which had a right of 

947
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,800
refusal on the other 70% which 
came in from you guys. 

948
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:54,080
But at the same time Qatarpa was
under like St Barbara had had 

949
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:57,040
bid for that a month earlier. 
And then yeah, you know, sorry, 

950
00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:59,120
St Barbara not doing that deal, 
we're doing this one instead. 

951
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:03,000
It's like three parties coming 
together thinking this is the 

952
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:06,720
best outcome and the pro forma 
sort of benefited everyone in a 

953
00:52:06,720 --> 00:52:09,320
lot of ways who got to ride the 
benefit over time. 

954
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:11,560
Do you think there's less 
collaboration for those sorts 

955
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:13,680
of? 
Once again, that was kind of 

956
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:17,960
done with a major so new Crest 
with a counterparty. 

957
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:20,880
I went to go and see when they 
bought Lahir and Greg Robinson 

958
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:25,480
listened and sort of understood 
that Mount Rawdon and cracker 

959
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:28,760
his 70% of cracker were not 
going to be cool and he kind of 

960
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:33,200
bought into OK, well, I loaned 
33% of this new vehicle, but he 

961
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:36,400
said, you know, in order for it 
to get done Katelpa have this 

962
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:39,400
pre emptive over my 70%. 
So go and see them and get it 

963
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:43,880
done with them. 
But he, he lends in and helped 

964
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,200
us get catalpa over the line as 
well, because once they'd 

965
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:51,000
endorsed it, a major, you know, 
I think it did have an 

966
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:55,280
influence. 
So he, he he was very supportive

967
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:57,360
of the deal and, and created 
evolution. 

968
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:01,440
And Laurie Conway, who's now the
CEO of the business, actually 

969
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:04,760
was the non executive director 
appointed by new Crest. 

970
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:08,440
So I, I think if you're dealing 
with groups that, that 

971
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:12,120
understand how value is created,
it, it can be done, but you need

972
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:15,040
it, you know, you, you need to 
think a bit out of the box. 

973
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:19,920
And if you do everything that 
every investment bank banker 

974
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,120
walks in and says, you know, 
here's a great deal for you, 

975
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:24,040
you're probably going to end up 
in tears. 

976
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:26,280
I'm not an investment banker, 
but I've got a deal for you. 

977
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:31,960
Yeah, I'm always, always. 
I'm sure it's I'm sure it's at 

978
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:34,960
the top of your shopping list. 
Anyway, Yeah, you like you've 

979
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:38,360
eat the East Kendana joint 
venture. 

980
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:43,080
You know, you've, you've picked 
up sort of Northern Star's share

981
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:44,920
of that. 
Now surely there's a motivation 

982
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:47,480
to wrap up the entire thing with
random tribune of these funky 

983
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:50,400
sort of strange and sex 
companies that are mostly 

984
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:53,520
bullion. 
Pretty sure they'd like yeah. 

985
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:55,800
Negative EV if you net off the 
actual bullion. 

986
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:58,520
Then if that fits in the funky 
category, it just sounds like a 

987
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:03,040
purchase. 
Yeah, we own 20% of Tribune. 

988
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:09,160
I think that the, you know, the 
Tribune and Rand companies, you 

989
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:14,680
know, have been somewhat 
esoteric to investors their, 

990
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:18,680
their shareholders or on you 
know, not institutional 

991
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:21,080
shareholders. 
So I think we, we've gone with 

992
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:24,440
that and is, is to try and 
engage with them, collaborate 

993
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:29,040
with them and and maximise the 
value at, at the EKJV where the 

994
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:33,800
51% owner of the joint venture, 
their material, that material 

995
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:38,000
gets processed in our plans. 
So our approach has been to try 

996
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:40,640
and collaborate and maximise the
value for both shareholders. 

997
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:45,320
Again, I think, you know, if you
said is it a deal that I could 

998
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:48,240
genuinely say is accretive to 
our shareholders, I think based 

999
00:54:48,240 --> 00:54:50,760
on value expectations, the 
answer's no and therefore 

1000
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:53,160
unlikely to be done. 
So sorry. 

1001
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:58,840
Oh. 
You would say that you got any 

1002
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:00,880
more Ellie? 
No, no, that was, that was 

1003
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:02,560
fantastic. 
Thanks for your time, Jake. 

1004
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:04,280
We really appreciate it. 
Thank you. 

1005
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:06,040
Thank you so much for coming in.
Thanks. 

1006
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:10,160
Good stuff, Trav and JC, you 
know, fun random factor. 

1007
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:13,760
You know that the term holy snap
and duck shit got recently used 

1008
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:17,680
in a corporate review meeting? 
No, really. 

1009
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:20,840
Anyway, back to I've heard word 
on the decline. 

1010
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:22,480
Anyway, back to Jake and 
Evolution. 

1011
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:26,600
Good, John I trap. 
Yeah, it was. 

1012
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:27,520
It was. 
Yeah, it was good. 

1013
00:55:27,720 --> 00:55:29,880
It was good. 
Yeah, it was pretty interesting.

1014
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:31,120
I did. 
I did enjoy it. 

1015
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:32,440
I did enjoy it. 
What are you? 

1016
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:34,600
What are you? 
What do you reckon he gave you 

1017
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:35,760
that you didn't think he gave 
you? 

1018
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:41,120
On the deal front, well, you 
know what I was thinking when he

1019
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:44,640
said a deal can't be done with 
random tribute, but he accepted 

1020
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:46,880
that they're trading at negative
EVI don't understand how that 

1021
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:50,080
works unless, unless the major 
shareholder or controlling 

1022
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:52,080
shareholding interest actually 
just has stars in their eyes 

1023
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:55,240
because like, yeah, you know 
what I mean? 

1024
00:55:55,240 --> 00:55:58,240
Like anyway. 
Who knows? 

1025
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:01,360
Yeah, who knows? 
Who knows? 

1026
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:03,680
I know where. 
The mess of the best I can fit 

1027
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:06,280
mine in contractor in the world.
That's a fact. 

1028
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:09,840
That's like there's no Rand or 
Tribune bloody cryptic messages 

1029
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:12,120
there. 
It's like fact, fact, fact. 

1030
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:15,720
Hey, what else is going on? 
Where's the bloody where's the 

1031
00:56:15,720 --> 00:56:18,120
sponsors going are? 
You testing me? 

1032
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:21,200
I think we know them. 
We've got a couple others. 

1033
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:23,480
We've got the. 
Grounded Construction Group, 

1034
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,800
we've got cross boundary energy,
we've got the Sandy Ground 

1035
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:30,240
Support Division. 
GRE insurance that we mentioned 

1036
00:56:30,240 --> 00:56:32,120
in the show. 
Greenland's equipment. 

1037
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:36,640
McMahon Mining Title services, 
Strange earthworks at Haulage, 

1038
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:39,600
Bloody cage drill just punching,
arson and diamond dolls 

1039
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:43,880
everywhere and our bloody 
beautiful friends at Spark. 

1040
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:50,600
If you're an active sex trader, 
the information contained in 

1041
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:53,400
this episode of Money of Mine is
of general nature only and does 

1042
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:56,200
not take into account the 
objectives, financial situation,

1043
00:56:56,240 --> 00:56:58,240
or needs of any particular 
person. 

1044
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:01,600
Before making any investment 
decision, you should consult 

1045
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:04,640
with your financial advisor and 
consider how appropriate the 

1046
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:08,360
advice is to your objectives, 
financial situation and needs.