1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,160 Right on buddy Waters. It's a it's not a bloodbath 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:08,280 everywhere but mate, is it? Is it bloody risk off today JDI? 3 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:11,800 Think it could be mate seems to be the the feeling in the 4 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:12,960 market. We're going to chat a bit about 5 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:15,880 it. There's a few big moves and a 6 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,480 few more more subtle ones. But I think, I think we're we're 7 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:21,400 going to talk about the, the mood in the market. 8 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,480 Mate, it was risk on when you were in Darba, mate, the the 9 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,960 punting was the best ever. It was all gold. 10 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,560 You know when like everything's about gold exploration, she's 11 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:32,320 risk on. But when people are. 12 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,120 Honed in on $5 million market cap companies then. 13 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:39,560 It's all go that all was, but look, uranium down most things 14 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,800 down near 10% overnight in the US and that's flying through 15 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,000 those X. And anyway you're going to go, 16 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:47,880 we're going bloody. We've got a macro segment from 17 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:53,400 JD and we've got a Uranium 1 from me. 18 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:55,280 To very, very excited to listen to that one. 19 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,760 It's a huge move in Encore. Oh no, but like and because I 20 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:02,160 suppose that encore story is headlined around, you know, 21 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,280 these project restarts. A lot of these aren't 22 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,680 greenfields operation. We're seeing them in every 23 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:14,160 commodity, JD but don't do a restart project and keep the 24 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:17,320 shitty camp get grounded to sex it up for you. 25 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:21,640 But that is number one bloody rule and a lot of these restart 26 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:25,160 issues could be the fact that the people want a better camp. 27 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,120 It's true. They're just so might just make 28 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:30,040 the smart choice. They'll work harder, you'll make 29 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,200 more money and your share price probably won't go down. 30 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:34,720 So. When I crack open one of these 31 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,160 DF s s, you know, and they're talking about a restart or maybe 32 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:40,440 they call it an optimization or what have you grounded. 33 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:41,440 They're the words I'm looking for. 34 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:42,880 Oh, no. And the words that follow that 35 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,840 JD grounded that because they it's built on trust and 36 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,960 delivered with Sicilian excellence by Paul Natali. 37 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,880 Yeah. So anyway, Encore Energy 38 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:57,000 absolutely hammered last night down 46%. 39 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:00,160 I was actually just before I went to bed watching the the 40 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:05,320 open and I think they were down 18%, but then just continued 41 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:07,040 through the night. So yeah. 42 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:08,960 And you can so I. Listed up in North America for 43 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,560 those. Yeah, they're on, They're on. 44 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:13,840 Can't find it? And they're on the TSXV and the 45 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,560 NASDAQ. Yeah, so project in Texas. 46 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:19,240 Oh yeah, that's they got a big gun. 47 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:23,000 They got a big gun on down 62% in the past year. 48 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:28,320 So now what has actually happened, like there was the the 49 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:34,200 production miss and the fact that they had to essentially 50 00:02:34,640 --> 00:02:38,840 sell pounds they purchased to fulfil contract obligations. 51 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:45,320 But the last line of the actual announcement let me. 52 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,680 Was a kicker. Oh my, I'll I did this every 53 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,240 time user away now mobile view I'm sorted. 54 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,480 You say the last bit here, I'll bring up the board of directors 55 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:57,400 appointed Robert Willett, the colour current Chief legal 56 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:03,760 officer as acting CEO effective immediately and the existing the 57 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:10,160 previous CEO Paul Goranson just says no longer serving as I say, 58 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,800 all the board of directors, no context, no nothing given and 59 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:19,240 like from what you hear, Paul is very well regarded in the US out 60 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:23,680 of 30 years in the industry was yeah, you look at yeah done a 61 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,720 lot of ISR work. So it was came across very 62 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:29,280 negative to the market as you see. 63 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:33,960 So I'll think, yeah, I think the, I think the share price 64 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,880 decline is much more weighted towards this than the actual 65 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:41,520 production. So possibly both whatever. 66 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,920 So yeah, like because, you know, they're appointing a, a lawyer 67 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:47,320 to be the CEO of this ISR company now. 68 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:51,280 So it yeah, so it was sent tremors across. 69 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,040 But then, and I'll get into it later, like, like, you know, 70 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,920 next Gen. was down 10%. Like everything was down 71 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,840 significantly because you had a bit of word coming out of the 72 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,800 Trump office for a change regarding tariffs, but we'll get 73 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,320 into the impacts of that. So for the Encore side 74 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,440 specifically, it said, it said for 20. 75 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,280 So this is a lot of the Q4 results and then the full year 76 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:16,120 results that they released in tandem with announcing the 77 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,760 change in management. So it said they, they had sales 78 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:24,880 totalling 720,000 lbs at an average sales price of 81 bucks 79 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:28,880 a pound. But they used 580,000 lbs source 80 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,120 from purchased uranium to, to fulfil that. 81 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:37,480 So because I actually acquired 825,000 lbs during last year. 82 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,440 So they've, they've got £358,000 left in inventory. 83 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:45,120 But it just shows the the missing production and the I 84 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,840 guess the struggles they're having in the ramp up and 85 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,360 considering they actually had contracts in place to to fulfil 86 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:54,400 so. Yeah, that's when it really 87 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,760 comes back to to bite you and you see that in the strategy 88 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:58,680 with a few of the other race that players have. 89 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:03,080 They're leaving themselves some some breathing room for the 90 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:04,640 potential misses and these sorts of things. 91 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,400 So you're not locked in similarly to how we've spoken 92 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,680 with people that have to hedge, you know, to get the financing 93 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:12,760 and these sorts of things. When you you're obligated to 94 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,640 make it and you can't make it, maybe that hedge book becomes 95 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:19,280 100% of your production as opposed to 30%, whatever. 96 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,760 Anything like that, you know, can really swing around your 97 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,280 numbers. Yes, very much, very bloody much 98 00:05:25,280 --> 00:05:28,280 size. So well I'll give a just, we've 99 00:05:28,280 --> 00:05:32,160 talked about them before because Encore are the ones that Boss 100 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,720 have done the JV with at the project level for the Alta Mesa 101 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:40,400 project in South South Texas. So they're in they've it's a one 102 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:44,800 and half £1,000,000 project per annum that ramping up to that 103 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,400 not there yet. And they've got like 3 separate 104 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:52,360 processing facilities there, 2 of race started, there's a third 105 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:54,480 one scheduled. And then they've they've also 106 00:05:54,480 --> 00:06:00,120 got development projects in South Dakota, Wyoming, New 107 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,760 Mexico. So there's a, there's a bit 108 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:07,120 going on, but they've just been absolutely hammered so. 109 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,480 So this Alta Massa project was sort of slated to hit nameplate 110 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,120 Route 26. Yeah, Yeah. 111 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,240 So it was it was it was destined as a slower ramp up. 112 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:21,680 But like, I think you could you could just tell the fact that 113 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,280 they've had to sell a lot of the pounds they've purchased for 114 00:06:24,280 --> 00:06:26,520 inventory. It just shows the ramp up is 115 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,840 like and the considerable amount of them just shows it's not 116 00:06:29,840 --> 00:06:31,960 really not really hitting the mark. 117 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,520 And look, you can I guess when we're talking about US mining 118 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:37,960 projects at the moment and saying the market moves, you got 119 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:41,040 to think right, how much is influenced by the mining itself 120 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,680 and how much is influenced by big Trumpy because there was 121 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,320 plenty of news out from him last night as well. 122 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:52,040 So because is essentially moving forward with the 25% tariffs on 123 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:56,240 Mexico and Canada slapped another 10% tariff on China on 124 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:57,920 top of the 10% that was already there. 125 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,640 And you got the 25% tariffs for steel and aluminium imports 126 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,160 kicking in in March 12. And then also paused bloody 127 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,560 military aid to Ukraine after that. 128 00:07:08,280 --> 00:07:11,080 The what would you say, the Oval Office cluster fuck? 129 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,040 God how many good AI videos have come out of that? 130 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:15,600 The less said about that, the better. 131 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:19,000 Mate, Yeah. So if we can then tie that into 132 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:23,640 US uranium or even just North American uranium and the effect 133 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:27,320 that because as I said, uranium just got absolutely hammered 134 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:33,200 last night on the equity side. And it's a look, it's been on a 135 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:39,360 decline in the spot price, which is it's just the the weirdest 136 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,400 how you get your head around it. Term prices, even term prices 137 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,920 stayed flat even though there was only apparently one term 138 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,280 contract signed in February. But the spot the term price 139 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,000 hadn't moved. Spot prices continue to go down 140 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,640 since it's at about 20% below the term. 141 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,960 So that's obviously feeding the equity sentiment. 142 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:00,920 So we're. Talking to mid 60s spot. 143 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:02,160 Yes. Yeah. 144 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:06,200 So I guess right? What's, what do these tariffs 145 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,680 mean for a bloody if you're looking to invest in a frigging 146 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:13,360 US uranium producer, like I think there's two sides and you 147 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,080 don't know what balance, which way it's going to bloody tilt 148 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,560 the, the scales. Because you could say that, OK, 149 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,760 if it's all about right, if you're not US, you're going to 150 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:23,840 be tariffed. So that would think, right. 151 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:26,440 If you're buying AUS based project, you're like, OK, there 152 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:29,960 should be demand to buy US based projects because you are going 153 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:35,320 to have better conditions, not tariffed to sell internally 154 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,960 within the US and you will be a preferred supplier of whatever 155 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:43,000 product you're making. Could that lead to increased 156 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:47,400 investment in US bloody operations or companies or 157 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:49,880 whatever? But then you got, OK, if those 158 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,920 companies are, you know, building a project or restarting 159 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:57,520 a project and they're relying on imports from other parts of the 160 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:03,800 world for plant equipment, bloody any other material, OK, 161 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:05,760 Well, they're getting tariffs. So that's going to probably what 162 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:07,760 lift their CapEx and OpEx for that. 163 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,520 So that's a that's a negative. You could have supply chain 164 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:12,680 disruptions because of those tariffs. 165 00:09:12,680 --> 00:09:15,960 Like we don't even know yet what the trade retaliation is going 166 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,520 to be from other countries against the US. 167 00:09:18,560 --> 00:09:22,200 So there's just a lot of a lot of uncertainty and it could go 168 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,440 either way be a bloody positive or negative for AUS company. 169 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:29,800 So short summary, I don't know. But not just. 170 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:31,680 Do you know JD? Not just you mate, there's a 171 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:33,920 there's a lot of question Marks and a lot of water to go under 172 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,680 the bridge. And I think the other one, we 173 00:09:36,680 --> 00:09:39,840 haven't talked about it yet. The I think it was over the 174 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,240 weekend we saw and in terms of what's happening in Canada, we 175 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:48,240 saw the Supreme Court of Canada dismissing the Saskatchewan 176 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:52,080 government's appeal against the medic nation of Saskatchewan. 177 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:56,080 So I guess assuming there that's a lot the one of the traditional 178 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:01,080 owner groups so that was allowing them to proceed the 179 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:05,240 medicination proceed with legal action against the province over 180 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,360 these are the words alleged inadequate consultation 181 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:13,320 regarding uranium exploration permits issued to Next Gen. near 182 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,360 Patterson Lake in 2021. So this. 183 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,360 This Rook 1. Yeah, not Rook one. 184 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,280 There's a lot because there's a mutual benefit agreement with 185 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,440 medicine and next Gen. for the development of Rook one. 186 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:29,640 They sound like they're separate exploration permit permits does 187 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:34,200 set a bit of a precedence going forward and in giving a bit more 188 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,800 power probably to the traditional owners for this, 189 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:40,880 these negotiations for other projects that don't have these 190 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:44,280 mutual agreements yet like Paladin's PLS project for 191 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,640 instance. But didn't say Paladin really 192 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,400 get hammered on the back of this? 193 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,040 There's still a bit of uncertainty of what this 194 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,000 actually means. But anyway, if you put all that 195 00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:00,880 together and we look at the actual financial state of Encore 196 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,840 and whether they're thinking right, is this bloody massive 197 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:08,360 drop in Encore share price takeover target opportunity for 198 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,840 them or not? Or what the investment sentiment 199 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,360 is like for those U.S. companies, they've got their 200 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,520 market caps going from 1 billion Canadian in November to about 201 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:23,640 368 Canadian as of last night. So and they've only got US 202 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:28,480 Piplow 40 million in cash in cash equivalents in regards to 203 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:34,480 the 200,000 lbs that they owe Boss Energy that was loaned to 204 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:39,200 them when BOSS did the 30% investment into the Alta Mesa 205 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,600 project. That was actually that loan 206 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,720 agreement was amended on 21st of February. 207 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:47,160 Then I'll bring up the SEC filing here. 208 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:51,560 So based on the dates that said February 26th, which is you know 209 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:57,400 last week they would would have paid BOSS US 11.8 million cash. 210 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:01,320 So that 40 million US cash is based on December 31st. 211 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,720 So they've had another 11.8 million cash go out the door 212 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:12,200 because and that that was paid 119,000 lbs of uranium at 100 213 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:16,240 and $100 a pound, which is what the price was agreed on when 214 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:20,880 they actually loaned it to them. And then they've also got to pay 215 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:26,600 another 100,000 lbs outstanding at $100 a pound before June 216 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,640 27th. And then at the election of boss 217 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,480 will be if that's either paid in physical uranium or the 218 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:38,680 equivalent cash value. So unless the uranium spot price 219 00:12:38,680 --> 00:12:44,440 goes up above $100 by March 15th, which is my birthday by 220 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:49,440 the way, I'd say that I'd say that boss will be taking that in 221 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:51,160 cash. So I think you, you put that 222 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,360 together, they don't have doesn't allow have any debt 223 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,040 besides that because they did have the previous debt with 224 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,040 Energy Fuels after which so they bought Ultimates off. 225 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,720 But that's I think 40 million of that was repaid of the 226 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:07,200 convertible debt and then 20 million remaining was converted 227 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,240 into Encore shares. So that's all been finalized. 228 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:14,160 So you look at that down out the door and the ramp up dramas 229 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,640 outside, they're under a bit of financial pressure at the 230 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,800 moment. I mean to get to the the crux of 231 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,640 your point on whether they're a takeover target though, I think 232 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,360 there's a lot of unanswered questions on the production miss 233 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:27,800 today, what the read through is and what that really means for 234 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,440 the assets that they hold, whether they don't quite stack 235 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:32,280 up. You know it's quite UN quote 236 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,800 cheaper now that The thing is halved but the assets nowhere 237 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:37,920 near as good as you thought. Then it's not really cheaper 238 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,080 exactly. And and you don't know what what 239 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,120 contracts they've committed to either like going forward, I'm 240 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:48,880 not sure if that is fully like if the markers of the 241 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,720 contracting market. So I'd Pike, we don't know if 242 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:52,800 they're what they're committed to. 243 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:56,280 So like if you go in as you said, like you're struggling 244 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,920 with ramp up, but they've got a shit load contracted out to 245 00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:04,240 these utilities and you want to take them over and take on those 246 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:05,400 contracts. What do you what? 247 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:09,400 Do you think of the opacity in in contracting and do you think 248 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,320 it's right for companies to withhold that info from 249 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:13,480 shareholders? It's not. 250 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:15,200 It's not up to them, it's the utility. 251 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,640 Like it's all dictated by the utilities because the, because 252 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,360 the utilities don't want everything they're doing known 253 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:25,200 by the market because it could have such an impact on what 254 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,880 they're going to pay for their next bit of bit of uranium. 255 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,800 So whether it's, yeah, it's actually not the company's 256 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,920 choice is my understanding. It's all in the when they do 257 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:38,280 these contracts, the utilities all say what they can and can't 258 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,920 disclose. The the different one was what 259 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,680 next Gen. were able to disclose when they did. 260 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,200 I think it was a contract last year, but they're obviously 261 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,200 allowed to disclose that. I've seen I've. 262 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:51,960 Seen that, you know, that sort of disclosure a bit more. 263 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:55,000 Not nothing too specific, there's just ranges and sorts of 264 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,960 things, floors and ceilings. But yeah, it's, it's an 265 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,720 interesting one. I find it frustrating if you 266 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:06,120 know as a say, prospective uranium shareholder to not have 267 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,080 a firm understanding of what the company could own. 268 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:09,960 You know, it's the top line, it's the top line. 269 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,280 You're kind of keen to know what that could look like. 270 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:13,840 Well, and that. That's why they all have to 271 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:15,600 raise capital a lot. Not many of them can. 272 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,880 I think it's very hard to get debt as a uranium developer 273 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:21,920 'cause you've got, no, the lender hasn't got foresight of 274 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,440 what you're actually going to be selling everything at whether 275 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:26,680 the contracts are in place yet or not. 276 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:30,080 So, and whether that's disclosed or not. 277 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:34,360 So anyway, like, you know, what are they, they got one and a 278 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,920 half million pounds hopefully eventually coming out of the the 279 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,040 South Texas operations at Alta Mesa. 280 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:44,160 That that's from the Alta Mesa bit the the Rosita plant that's 281 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:48,120 licensed for £800,000 a year, which is expandable under the 282 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,120 current license, but I can't find how much it's expandable 283 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,680 by. They've also got that Kingsville 284 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:57,560 dime ISR plant, part of the South Texas that's licensed. 285 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,280 They've got that Dewey book thing in South Dakota. 286 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:05,440 So that's going to be £1,000,000 a year for a £17 million 287 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:06,960 resource. But then it's got like, you 288 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:11,760 know, pre production CapEx there of US 86 million still needing 289 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,520 final API approval. And there's a couple other 290 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:16,800 projects in New Mexico and Wyoming. 291 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:21,920 I suppose the logical, the logical player based on their 292 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,520 involvement already will be boss considering they have the ISR 293 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,200 experience. They've got 30% of Altimasa 294 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,720 already. But look they're they're sitting 295 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,920 under A1 bill market cap and if you weigh up a bloody merger 296 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:40,280 ratio on that and they got to pay over frigging 5600 mil 297 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:43,400 Aussie for Encore, it's like and they're already struggling. 298 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:48,480 It's like, would they see actual benefit in it or not with 2/3 of 299 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,440 a pro forma or less? Like who knows? 300 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,240 Who knows? And based on everything that 301 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,520 we've said, we don't know. Like in terms of the US 302 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:03,840 companies still like, yeah, who knows, Like God that they might 303 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:05,800 get bloody bought back by who they bought it off. 304 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,520 Who knows, but depends how. They they view the value of 305 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,119 their own paper as well. Obviously that's fluctuated 306 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,160 massively over the past year. I think when I look this morning 307 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:19,640 we're sort of around 2 bucks 40, but they'll you know, that'll 308 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:23,000 that'll form a key part of how they approach any M&A and 309 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:27,160 whether that's a, you know, a heavy use of paper in that M&A. 310 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:32,360 But like I say, remains to be seen in this kind of an occasion 311 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,800 uranium environment it's. I would love to know a bloody 312 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,680 over the ditch tariff expert if like your first pass analysis of 313 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,880 everything right now. Do you want to own Would U.S. 314 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:48,600 companies want to own more US assets or less at the moment? 315 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:53,600 What's the first pass thoughts. Send me your ideas because it 316 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:55,480 sounds like it could be either way. 317 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:59,360 It just the ball bank was on bloody some follow out of the 318 00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:03,080 Trump administration was on Oh, CNNI think the other night 319 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:05,560 saying, oh, this we're going to start the next nuclear 320 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:07,960 renaissance in this administration. 321 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,000 So you got that that sort of those bullish comments and then 322 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:15,200 the like, as you said before, the thesis has never been better 323 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:19,560 for uranium. But look, the underlying well, 324 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:23,040 you you you could say the underlying price has gone down, 325 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:25,360 but the spot price isn't really the underlying price. 326 00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:29,600 I'd say the term, the fact that the term price has gone up is 327 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:34,560 even more positive, but it's just these, the equities haven't 328 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,600 gone back to what they were the other year. 329 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,360 So yeah. I'm not sure I'd say the the 330 00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:44,400 broader narrative has has never been better. 331 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,680 You know, since the last friggin. 332 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:48,800 Yeah. Yeah, there's, there's a sort of 333 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,160 long, long history there. But it is, it is rather enticing 334 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,120 and it's much more enticing now than it was last year. 335 00:18:56,120 --> 00:18:57,920 I think that's exactly how I'd say it. 336 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,680 But. Yeah, that's why you need a CFD 337 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:02,680 hedge fund, JD. You got to you got to hedge this 338 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,160 risk out fucking Long Island. It's risky stuff. 339 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:06,000 Yeah. I. 340 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,480 Mean, I think the, the real lesson is just to understand if 341 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:11,960 you are going to invest in these companies where you sit in the 342 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:16,240 cost curve and be predicted by that seeing how brutal downturns 343 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,360 in in uranium can be and how long they can kind of last. 344 00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:21,040 So you need, you need protection. 345 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,320 And I think by nature, these these restart projects are 346 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,400 always a bit riskier. So you want to make sure you're 347 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,840 sitting in Q1Q2 and you're buying those projects at an 348 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:33,360 attractive price just to sort of protect your investment because 349 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:38,240 commodities are super sort of cyclical and uranium is as 350 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,680 opaque as they come. But I think even if you're at 351 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:44,240 the front of the cost curve and uranium shits itself, you still 352 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,840 fucking lose money anyway. Absolutely. 353 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:48,880 That was in the context of if you're. 354 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:50,800 In it or you're not. That's in the. 355 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,800 Context of if you're going to be in uranium, you know, you need 356 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,120 to understand where you are in that curve. 357 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,640 Yeah, if you want. To have not 0 and liquidate if 358 00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:04,000 you want to, if you want to stay alive anyway, we'll I think 359 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,320 there's going to be plenty more coming out of I'll be interested 360 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:11,600 to see what happens on on. On call tonight on the TSX and D 361 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,760 and the NASDAQ under the. Cent mate, there's one certainty 362 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:17,920 in the world of ISR mines. What's that? 363 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:20,200 That. Certainty is that you need mud 364 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,440 Rotary for the well fields and there is one name to go to for 365 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,480 all this right and. It doesn't even make sense at 366 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,840 the moment, but it will. WA Waterboards Gerald James is 367 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:32,440 back in the house and he is up for a name change if needed 368 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,920 because he's the foundation of mud Rotary for him come from 369 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,120 find him water for everyone. But his skills can be 370 00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:43,120 transferred as you said JD to RIP it into paleo channels for 371 00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:44,600 ice art. So maybe you want? 372 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,400 To get ahead of the curve as well mate, right? 373 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:50,440 Can you imagine? Gerald James said to me, I am 374 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:54,560 not dying until I drill a well field in WA. 375 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:59,000 So maybe if that gets changed this century, Gerald James is 376 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,200 ready to go. He'll do it when he's 110 if he 377 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,280 has to, but he's not. Then go out, not go on and. 378 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,600 Shake the big follows end up top until he's smashed at Paleo 379 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:11,200 Channel in WA. So mate, WA water balls. 380 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,120 They're back bigger than ever and they're ready to take on the 381 00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:16,240 world of water and uranium drilling. 382 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:17,440 Go, Jerry. James, good. 383 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,000 Thanks. For coming back mate. 384 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:24,480 I bloody missed it, right JD? Great title and it says exactly 385 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,560 what this topic is about. Macro risk off question mark. 386 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,760 But I was, I was looking at the screens this morning and there 387 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,400 was there was a bunch of drilling results out there was a 388 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,200 few production numbers as you kind of spoke to there overseas. 389 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,960 But what, what sort of really grabbed my attention as well as 390 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,400 over the weekend was what's happening in a macro level and 391 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:49,080 the sort of change in, in nature or the change in attitude toward 392 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,600 risk. And I think there's no shortage 393 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,640 of standbytes and interesting events. 394 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,040 And I think we kind of in part got a step back from those 395 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,440 things because it can be pretty, pretty interesting what's coming 396 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,560 out of the White House and other parts of the world. 397 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,560 But I thought it'd be kind of handy from a personal 398 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,520 perspective to boil down my thinking and do a bit of 399 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,440 digging, kind of organize my thoughts in a few areas. 400 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,240 So firstly I'm. Sorry to interrupt, but I feel 401 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:14,840 you would. Whether you are hosting a 402 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:16,880 podcast or not, you would have done this anyway. 403 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,160 It was a long weekend. I had a bit of time you could be 404 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,800 on to something there. What I wanted to get into, 405 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:28,800 Maddie, was how the the market's attitude toward risk is changing 406 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,400 what the kind of temperature is right now on that regard as well 407 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,280 as just a broad kind of China deep dive. 408 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,480 And of course, pulling that back into to metals and mining 409 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,040 specifically on the investment side as it kind of relates to 410 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,320 what we talk about all the time on the podcast and kind of just 411 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,520 see where it got got me. And I'm, I'm not sure I have any 412 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,120 more clarity at the end of that process, but I thought I'd chat 413 00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:52,920 about it regardless, mate. And is this. 414 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,560 Today. Today. 415 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,280 Well, this is what the temperature is today that you 416 00:22:58,280 --> 00:22:59,280 feel. Yeah, I'm, I'm. 417 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:03,040 Kind of the, the school of thought of big macro calls are 418 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,920 incredibly hard. I've, I've got as little chances 419 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,080 as anybody or perhaps less chance of, of calling these 420 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,480 things, but I think it's much easier to, to kind of get a 421 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,520 feeling of where we are right now as opposed to what's going 422 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,160 to happen in, in six months, in 12 months. 423 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,080 That's, that's an incredibly hard game to play. 424 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,680 But you can get a bit of a gauge for, for what different people 425 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:24,880 are saying, what different companies are saying, what 426 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,280 different countries are doing and the actions they're kind of 427 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:31,160 taking right now to sort of get your bearings about yourself 428 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:31,720 right. I'm. 429 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:33,520 Lied on me, JD. Well, I thought. 430 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:35,240 I'd sort of go around the grounds and sort of call out 431 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,560 what we've seen in various markets and indexes over the 432 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,000 past little while. So to start with the NASDAQ down 433 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:43,800 8 1/2 percent over the past couple weeks. 434 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:49,600 NVIDIA great proxy for risk assets is down 19% in the past 435 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,760 couple weeks. You've got the S&P 500, so 436 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,680 perhaps not quite as frothy, not quite as sort of tech centric, 437 00:23:56,040 --> 00:24:01,080 down about 5%. The ASX 200 is down 5% as well. 438 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,400 And you know, perhaps to an extent people are thinking that 439 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,600 buying the likes of CBA and other type businesses at 26 440 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:12,280 times earnings is a a bit steep as sort of Romano spoke about on 441 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,240 our show and many other people have spoken about and is. 442 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,160 That is that DM 5% in because there haven't been many big 443 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:24,600 XTV's come through for your big big caps which can drive the ASX 444 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,600 200 down but that they. They haven't come through in 445 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:29,760 this period. A lot have been announced but 446 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,720 they'll only get, you know, they'll only go ex dividend in a 447 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,080 month ish, maybe six weeks or so. 448 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:35,920 True 5. Percent. 449 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,440 Yeah, that's the sort. Of total return kind of basis on 450 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,840 which I'm looking at it, you've got Bitcoin as well, down 18%. 451 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,640 I think that's one of the best risk proxies you can get out 452 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:47,800 there in the market. And then on the other side of 453 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,000 that, gold in U.S. dollar terms down just a smidge in Aussie 454 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,560 dollar terms. That's a very impressive looking 455 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,120 chart. We are at 4640 bucks in Aussie 456 00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:01,360 dollar terms, which is, you know that's a hell of a gold price. 457 00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:03,200 So every. Gold miner should make money 458 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,560 this quarter every. Gold miner should make money 459 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,120 this quarter. Yeah, there's there's very 460 00:25:08,120 --> 00:25:09,960 little exception for that one. What? 461 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,560 What do you reckon, Maddie? You, you speak with a lot of, 462 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,000 you know, brokers and heaps of people in the market, in and 463 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,800 around markets. You, you know, you had a 464 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:19,800 conference a couple weeks ago. That's always a great place to, 465 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:21,920 to get a feel for what the, the mood is like. 466 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,080 And, you know, we were chatting just before how the, the moods 467 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:26,360 kind of changed in the last two weeks. 468 00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:27,400 What do you reckon? Oh. 469 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:32,280 And as I said, when user in and DABA, it was just and you had 470 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:36,800 those three few gold exploration companies RIP, which is what 471 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:42,400 Ozorum, Kalgold and Caprice like that was just it just you could 472 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:46,240 just feel the bloody. There's like, Oh, this is risk 473 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,040 on time, like this is really, really pumping and whether it 474 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,040 wasn't dictated as much by something on the macro. 475 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,080 So I but it's just like it just felt like gold was really 476 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:58,960 pumping. Then you even like on the back 477 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:03,120 of, you know, just even Hastings rare earth thing with Wiley 478 00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:04,800 lights. Oh, rare earths are back on. 479 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,320 And then there's, you know, more talk about bloody batteries and 480 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,560 people bullish of the lithium turning around. 481 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,480 Like you just felt that. But then like just within 482 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:17,040 fricking 2 weeks and and this room today reminds me of 483 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,640 diggers. Remember the Japan stuff that 484 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,920 diggers and like there was just bloodbath. 485 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:23,360 It was carry. Trade meltdown. 486 00:26:23,360 --> 00:26:23,960 Yeah. And it was. 487 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,760 Just two days worth of bloodbath and there's just if there's 488 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,160 unless there's like some big macro theme and whether it was 489 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:36,480 the tariffs last night that just overtake everything from 490 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,160 individual commodity base, it just and I feel that market 491 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,960 temperature today, just today feels like that's what's 492 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:45,360 happening. But then you look at, you know, 493 00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:48,120 BHP and Ray are pretty flat today. 494 00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:53,240 I think they're .3% downside whether the hey flower funds 495 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:58,040 from the specky to the big stuff to which is sorted a bit of the 496 00:26:58,040 --> 00:26:59,920 hemorrhaging out there. But I'll just yeah, I'll just 497 00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:03,240 feel as it. Do you think this time of the 498 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,920 market, with just the fact that Trump's in and then the 499 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:11,440 geopolitical stuff with US, China, Russia, Ukraine, 500 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,480 everything, do you feel like this is one of the hardest times 501 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,200 to have some sort of macro outlook because it's such a 502 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,800 freaking dynamic environment globally I'd. 503 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,960 Probably say no. Times are times are always 504 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:26,040 interesting. They're always tough. 505 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,680 Things are always hard to call. There's always, you know, 506 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:30,280 there's 8 billion people on the planet. 507 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,120 There's always interesting stuff going on. 508 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,320 It's it's never easy. And you know, funds management 509 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,960 is a super hard industry, super competitive because there's so 510 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,120 much stuff going on, so many people competing for a sort of 511 00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:45,040 limited set of opportunities. So I think it's, you know, a bit 512 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,640 out there to say it's the the hardest time ever, but it's, you 513 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,160 know, it's still not easy. It's never easy. 514 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,960 It's never easy. There's, there's always a lot to 515 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:59,560 kind of taking and I think, you know, stepping back and seeing 516 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,480 what the big picture is, you know, the, the, the tariff 517 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,600 stuff, for instance, China's been talking about this forever. 518 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,640 Like it's, it's not new. It's almost like this is the the 519 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,640 thing to point to right now. Is it because? 520 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,680 He's taking action, but it's a bit different now perhaps. 521 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,160 Perhaps, Yeah, I think, I think you could be right. 522 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,960 And I think that's a good sort of segue into into China because 523 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,640 heaps is going on in China. There's loads we could talk 524 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,800 about on this front. Just just this morning they came 525 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,960 out with some retaliation tariffs after the US slapped on 526 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,120 those 10% tariffs. Obviously there was the stuff in 527 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,040 Mexico and Canada as well. But China's got their biggest 528 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,160 political get together starting today. 529 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:38,640 It's called the sort of two sessions. 530 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:42,640 There's kind of two government bodies meeting that's sort of 531 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:47,320 overlap in timing and they are sort of outlining the strateg, 532 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,880 the strategy for the nation. There's an expectation the 533 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,680 government will set the bar at 5% growth over this year to help 534 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,640 them hit that target. It's anticipated that they will 535 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,720 move their official budget deficit target to a three decade 536 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,120 high by they're going to borrow more money to to fund this. 537 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,600 And you can sort of see it on the chart we're showing now on 538 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,520 YouTube. If you're hone in on that fiscal 539 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:14,560 deficit to GDP number, they're talking about lifting it to 4% 540 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,280 from 3%. People that are sort of steeped 541 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:22,040 in this will will know we're at about 7% in a similar ratio in 542 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,240 the US. So we're far below that. 543 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,000 You can also look at it from this augmented fiscal deficit 544 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,040 number, which is approaching 17%. 545 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,960 So it's kind of up and to the right this this deficit in China 546 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,600 as well as the US, although in the US it's on a bigger scale 547 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,240 that has been for some time now isn't. 548 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:44,480 It, I'll just remember how China was touted as always the 10% 549 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,160 growth in China. And you just say by that graph 550 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,280 here, that is just gradually now becoming 5%'s the number. 551 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,920 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And which like you know, on a 552 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,640 percentage terms like a global scale, that is a lot of stuff 553 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,520 that affects a lot of countries, specifically Australia one 554 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,000 point. 3 billion people it sure is on on the inflation side as 555 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:06,880 well. They, they are lowering their 556 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:11,160 target from 3 to 2% and inflation, very different to the 557 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,880 Western world, has come in beneath the target every year 558 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,240 since 2011, which is kind of mind boggling if you're sitting 559 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,160 here from Australia or if you're in the US and thinking about it 560 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:22,120 on the stock market side of things. 561 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,240 You'll remember we spoke a bunch about this sort of September, 562 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,400 October last year when they were talking about these big stimulus 563 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,840 projects that we're going to do. They're going to boost the 564 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,960 equity markets, which was a very different take for the US and 565 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,560 their markets have performed really strongly. 566 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:40,960 So Shanghai has sort of held its level after that 25% surge in 567 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,360 the space of a couple weeks last September. 568 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,760 If you look at the Hong Kong index that is up about 21% in 569 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,360 the past six weeks alone. Now if you if you zoom out and 570 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:55,000 you're looking on a on a 20 year horizon, it doesn't look that 571 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,120 stellar. But there is a, you know, 572 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,120 there's a, there's a moment in time now where things are 573 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,760 looking quite positive on, on that front in. 574 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:04,440 China. So what about if you're going to 575 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,760 go down a level to the metals themselves? 576 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,880 JD Yeah. So to to reference that 577 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,840 discussion we had back in September and October, again, 578 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,360 there was a lot of focus and a lot of desire from people in the 579 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,960 middle's world to want to see big fiscal stimulus as opposed 580 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,960 to this monetary action. They wanted to see 581 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:24,400 infrastructure projects getting built. 582 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,800 They wanted to see property projects going ahead because 583 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,960 this needs a lot of vinyl, a lot of METCO and all these sorts of 584 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,240 things to build things. And that would be the kicker 585 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,200 that all last get by punting on on mining stocks. 586 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,880 So a bit has happened on that front. 587 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,160 So the local government debt ceilings have been relaxed and a 588 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,200 few other things are going on. But right now we're not 589 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,480 expecting any massive stimulus because of that trade war. 590 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,160 They want to keep a bit of ammo up their sleeve to see what 591 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:51,680 happens over the next few months. 592 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,680 You know, Trump is coming out, he's whacking them around and 593 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,440 that's, that's the sort of ammo that's how he operates. 594 00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,840 And they'll have this big get together. 595 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,680 She and Trump will meet in I think in May or sometime. 596 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,000 And they want to sort of soften them up before they before they 597 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:07,800 shake hands and and knock out a deal. 598 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,800 So they're going to keep a bit of ammo up their sleeve is what 599 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:15,480 I'm sort of saying there. In in short, the fiscal stimulus 600 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,960 does have competition from another angle as well, though, 601 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:23,000 and that's the Chinese desire to reduce their reliance on 602 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,360 property and infrastructure and focus on other parts of their 603 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,640 economy. They want to build out tech, 604 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,800 they want to build out manufacturing, they want to 605 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,560 build out healthcare and all these other parts of the economy 606 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,840 and they just don't use as much materials as property and 607 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:40,880 infrastructure. Not to say they don't use 608 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,680 anything but that. That's so weird to say like 609 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:45,640 that. You say that like they're going 610 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,280 to build that out more in there, but they're so renowned for 611 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,880 being the place everywhere goes for tech and manufacturing. 612 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,120 So to think they're going to expand on that's pretty, it's 613 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,560 pretty confronting to hear exactly. 614 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:00,920 What you've just said really speaks to what they've done in 615 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,960 the past decade or two and the, the dominance that they've built 616 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,520 by honing in and focusing on those industries. 617 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,280 It's, it's fascinating. Like I still think there will be 618 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,240 lots of say, infrastructure investment. 619 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,080 They need to build out the grid. This uses lots of copper and 620 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,240 those sorts of things. That's a part of their, you 621 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:18,680 know, independence from the rest of the world. 622 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,520 I think it's really guided by this policy of wanting to be 623 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,520 self-sufficient. They don't want to have to rely 624 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:25,400 on any other country for for anything. 625 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,160 That's why they've gone so hard at EVs. 626 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,040 They, you know, take the reliance. 627 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,880 And and I assume uranium as well to take the reliance of 628 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,840 importing coal exactly. Nuclear, you can say the same 629 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,480 for, you can say the same for a whole bunch of other sectors. 630 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,600 They don't want to be reliant on anyone and that's how they get 631 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:44,880 themselves there. Mattie, you spoke about robots 632 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,440 last week. Check out this chart for for 633 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:52,240 people listening to the Potty. You can see on the on the Y axis 634 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,400 the amount of industrial robots installed in the top five 635 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,560 countries around the world and we're looking at a sort of 15 636 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:02,960 year time on the X axis. China. 637 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:07,040 Just wipes the floor. They clean up Japan, the US, 638 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,040 South Korea, and Germany. It it looks like those countries 639 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:11,600 haven't even haven't even gone forward. 640 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,159 Maybe they're sort of double while China has 10X over the 641 00:34:15,159 --> 00:34:17,480 past 15 years. Yeah, it's it's just crazy. 642 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:19,120 Build it out. Even more, that's phenomenal, 643 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:20,400 the build out. Is happening it's just not 644 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,840 happening in the West. It's it's crazy and yeah, I mean 645 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:28,320 on on EVs and tech specifically, it is insanely impressive what 646 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,440 they've done. And, you know, we think of them 647 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,000 as a sort of socialist country, but it's the most capitalistic 648 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,960 top system. That kind of is, especially if 649 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,960 you compare it to the big three auto manufacturers in the US or 650 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,679 the the the European auto space who are sort of begging for 651 00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:46,280 handouts from the government at the moment to protect themselves 652 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,560 from what was an industry with hundreds and hundreds of car 653 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,440 makers. That has been sort of whittled 654 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,440 down as the government kind of turns the screws on a you've now 655 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,080 got the the best car makers in the world. 656 00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,000 The best cars are coming out of China. 657 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,240 You know, they might not have that luxury brand associated 658 00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:06,320 with them just yet, but they are making the the best electric 659 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,960 vehicles in the world. They they make an. 660 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:10,480 Ayds around here. You. 661 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:11,280 You. Sure do. 662 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,400 And they're in in some parts of the world, they're cheaper than 663 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,400 ICE vehicles. It's seriously impressive what 664 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:18,840 they've done. And to your point, Maddie, 665 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:19,760 they're doing the same in nuclear. 666 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:21,120 They're going to do the same in batteries. 667 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,520 They've already done it solar. That's another great example of 668 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:26,800 where they've done it. It is it's crazy. 669 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,600 It's crazy impressive in my in my eyes to to put that 670 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,040 infrastructure slash property sector stimulus in a bit more 671 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,440 context as well. It's worth talking about the 672 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,280 consumption side of GDP. You know, when you when you 673 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,840 learn economics one O 1, you kind of think of consumption 674 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:51,560 plus investment plus government spend plus net net exports to to 675 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:58,520 kind of get to your view of GDP And the a western style economy 676 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,720 focuses much more on that consumption part. 677 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:05,280 That's pretty services heavy. Think of things like Netflix and 678 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,840 stuff in China. For a long time, it's been much 679 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,320 more investment heavy, these projects to build roads, to 680 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,040 build property and these sorts of things and they want to move 681 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,200 themselves away. Last year actually saw 682 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,840 consumption being the lowest part of that GDP makeup in over 683 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,720 20 years. So why I'm sort of mentioning 684 00:36:21,720 --> 00:36:26,400 this is it's just another kind of the headwind on that that 685 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,440 property and investment, that property and infrastructure side 686 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,720 of things. And again, it's not as metals 687 00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:34,400 heavy. You're wanting to build out an 688 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,520 economy that's more focused on services and these sorts of 689 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:38,840 things. It has a a little bit less 690 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,080 metals demand than the alternative might have. 691 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,480 But who knows if the if the aggregate grows, metals demand 692 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,920 could be still marching forward. So it's just another kind of 693 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,920 lens to to look at this at they. Still got the restrictions on 694 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,040 how many kids they can have over there, weren't they? 695 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,880 Wasn't it what you could so? It was one for a long time, then 696 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,560 for a brief moment in time it was 2, I think the space of a 697 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,040 few years. And then they lifted it up to 698 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,120 three. I want to say they've wiped it 699 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,200 completely. The the demographics don't look 700 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:08,280 great. And that's why people sort of 701 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,560 frame it. It's frame the debate in this 702 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,640 like will they get rich before they get old? 703 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:16,680 Context. And everyone compares it with 704 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,240 with Japan. Yeah, getting a bit out of my 705 00:37:20,240 --> 00:37:23,840 pay grade, but could listen to people chat about that for a 706 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:25,520 long time because it's really fascinating. 707 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,040 Well, it sounds. Like from what you're saying, 708 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,160 with the rise of the robotics over there, they could build out 709 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,040 of expand a lot of these industries without needing shit 710 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,800 loads of people in the country to facilitate the expansion. 711 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:37,400 Yeah. And the. 712 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,600 Knock was, you know, that label was always much cheaper there. 713 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:41,320 But that's not really the case anymore. 714 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,840 If you're you're going to look at building a factory around the 715 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,160 world, you want to do it where the cheapest labour is. 716 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:48,680 China's not top of the list anymore. 717 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,400 They're they're competent and they're really effective 718 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,720 factories that can do it at an efficient price, not purely 719 00:37:55,720 --> 00:37:58,320 because of that cheap labour component. 720 00:37:58,320 --> 00:37:59,800 They're just good at what they do, Yeah. 721 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,000 Yeah. And now are you? 722 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:06,240 Oh God, few times I'm, I'm starting to understand a lot of 723 00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:08,720 stuff that you've said. Historically, it was all over me 724 00:38:08,720 --> 00:38:10,160 head. I'll get there one day. 725 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:14,520 JD, the Belton Rd. initiative, yes, that you've spoken about 726 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,600 before. The Belton Rd. initiative is 727 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:23,120 it's, it's massive. It was China's way of building 728 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,080 infrastructure and trade across the world. 729 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,680 It was this sort of strategy to to do this. 730 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:32,360 It was launched by XI, the the current president back in 2013. 731 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,160 It was designed to sort of influence trade and build 732 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,440 relationships all around the world and sort of took the form 733 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:44,280 of loans, the construction deals and project purchases and that 734 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,440 sort of metals and mining. Think buying copper projects and 735 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,360 all these sorts of things all around the world and getting the 736 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,240 off take, securing the supply. That's how it's really relevant 737 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,760 to to our world. And I think it's super, super 738 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:56,320 interesting. Just recently the numbers came 739 00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:01,720 out for the investment in 2024. So I thought it was worth, I 740 00:39:01,720 --> 00:39:04,080 thought it was worth sharing a few of those numbers and kind of 741 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:08,040 chatting through them with, with you to, to help us kind of grasp 742 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,560 what they've done and just the scale of their investment 743 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,040 overseas. So you got 2024 being the 744 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:18,280 highest ever engagement for China through its Belton Rd. 745 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,080 initiative. So 51 billion U.S. dollars was 746 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,440 made in investments and 71 billion in construction 747 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,760 contracts. They're the two baskets and oil 748 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,040 and gas, that's the the biggest component of this with metals 749 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:34,960 and mining coming in seconds. So $22 billion mostly made-up of 750 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,640 investments. So that's them going and buying 751 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,680 copper mines of copper, cobalt mines, all these sorts of things 752 00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:43,960 all around the world. And I'll just point out quickly 753 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,400 that coal, they do a fair bit in coal as well, but that's sort of 754 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:50,160 put under that energy basket. So in actual fact, mining if you 755 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,360 can in coal is, is even bigger. The numbers are even even 756 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,200 bigger. The energy side, which is 757 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,640 massive is often made-up of construction spend as well. 758 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,240 Whereas in mining you're buying those those stakes. 759 00:40:01,240 --> 00:40:03,520 So whenever we've talked about these Chinese companies often 760 00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:07,880 state owned entities doing M&A that will fall into this basket 761 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,080 of. The Belt and Road Initiative, 762 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,320 yeah, right. If you, if you zoom out and look 763 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:14,880 all around the world where they're focusing on where 764 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,920 they're focused over 2024, you've got Latin America hitting 765 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:23,080 its lowest point in 10 years and the Middle East taking out 766 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:24,920 number one spot. So the most amount of dollars 767 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,320 went into the Middle East, which is very interesting. 768 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:32,080 The three countries to hone in specifically by investment was 769 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,280 Indonesia. That's the nickel investment. 770 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,840 Obviously Saudi Arabia, they're big energy projects that they're 771 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,440 doing there and Kazakhstan actually. 772 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,360 So I thought that was pretty interesting. 773 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:43,840 And then the biggest thing is the. 774 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:48,120 Kazakhstan it'd be, would any of it be in the fat lot, the 775 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,040 farming and agriculture industry? 776 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,240 Because I know that's. Absolutely. 777 00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:56,840 That is bigger than the uranium industry because they got the 778 00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,240 preference for sulfuric acid. So, yeah, so. 779 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,880 I'll check out this chart now and you can see on the right 780 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:07,560 hand side there's 2024 how the investment is split out by 781 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,040 sectors. So like I said that green is the 782 00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,800 the biggest one that's energy projects, the the darker colour 783 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:18,200 there is metals and mining tech swung up massively transport, 784 00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:21,640 you know, roads, these sorts of infrastructure type projects, 785 00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:23,880 massive as well. And then you've got sort of 786 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:26,600 smaller ones, chemical plants, these types of things. 787 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:30,720 So. So energy is the the chunky. 788 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:33,520 That's a good chunk of it. That's the biggest, yeah. 789 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,160 And it was a lot bigger. But yeah, it shows you how much 790 00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:40,680 metal, metals and mining still less than energy, but it's 791 00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,120 really frigging amped up. It's massive. 792 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,120 It's. Massive because it's so core to 793 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,960 what they do back home because they want to secure that that 794 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,040 supply. Interestingly, the the the 795 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,440 country that shot up the most year on year was Guinea. 796 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:55,680 That's obviously on the back of SIM Andu yeah. 797 00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,240 So that went from, you know, next to next to nothing because 798 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,320 23 yeah and it's you know, it's year on year. 799 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,840 So it's always you're comparing it with the year before. 800 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,240 If the year before with quite small, then you've got a a 801 00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:09,600 blowout year, which is pretty crazy. 802 00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:11,080 I don't think I. Don't think the predictive 803 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,960 investments going to swing the needle much compared to what 804 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:15,560 Samando did. Not yet. 805 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,920 Not yet. In terms of the the scale, you 806 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:20,760 know, if you, you want to try and quantify what they've 807 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:25,040 invested purely investments, not construction over the the past 808 00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:29,160 11 years, we're talking about half a trillion U.S. dollars in 809 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,720 investments. So that's, that's chunky and I'd 810 00:42:32,720 --> 00:42:35,280 love to see if you combine the Western world's investment, what 811 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,160 that comes out at. I don't think it'd be coming out 812 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,280 quite as high, but I, I don't know the numbers on that front. 813 00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,880 So you know, that I, I, I found that really interesting reading 814 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:45,880 through that, getting an understanding for it. 815 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,120 And, you know, there's a, there's a lot of critics of the 816 00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:50,920 Belton Rd. initiative as well. Obviously a lot of them would 817 00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:54,720 come from competing countries. Not all those loans that the 818 00:42:54,720 --> 00:42:59,400 countries received were, you know, the the best loans. 819 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:01,240 You know, there was a lot of accusations that China is 820 00:43:01,240 --> 00:43:04,280 putting these sort of debt traps on smaller countries, 821 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:07,480 undeveloped nations who won't be able to pay them back. 822 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:11,000 And China, I'm sure dusted a fair bit of money in the 823 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:12,680 process. A lot of them would have gone 824 00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,560 bad. And maybe they scoop up some 825 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:19,880 sort of security on on the loan itself, but that's not really 826 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,560 what they were there for. So it's it's refined its 827 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:24,280 approach over time. It has looked at actually 828 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:28,000 smaller projects to what it did back in 2013 when it came out 829 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,160 with just these enormous projects all around the world. 830 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,640 And they have looked a bit more at ownership in the past couple 831 00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:38,440 of years as opposed to this construction type contract, 832 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:42,080 which is another interesting kind of trend to to to think 833 00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:43,280 about. So. 834 00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,880 Based on all of that, I assume is your conclusion sort of is 835 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:52,360 the West doing it, not doing it wrong, but just really falling 836 00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:56,440 behind the rise of China in all those areas or it's it's? 837 00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:59,840 Like you, you know, you'd get this as much as anyone, Maddie, 838 00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:02,000 we're, we're watching this stuff every day, but it just doesn't 839 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:03,760 feel like that much of A priority here. 840 00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,400 People talk about it here and there and we're, we're very 841 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,760 honed into the industry and we're, we're looking for people 842 00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:14,280 to say these things in a way, but it, it just doesn't stack up 843 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:15,960 that high as a priority for the West. 844 00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,120 You know, Australia's not really going to do this. 845 00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,640 And if it ever does, it's a very small extent, even even the US. 846 00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:26,600 Like it was interesting hearing the US Secretary of State, Marco 847 00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:30,760 Rubio talk about this last week. And he sort of said that Trump 848 00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:34,560 is looking to sort of forge more of these deals around the world 849 00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,800 to counter China's dominance. So they're not, you know, 850 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,320 they're, they're seeing what China has done and they, they 851 00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:43,000 want to kind of counteract that and they want to be pretty 852 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:44,640 strategic about it. They've sort of put a bit of 853 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:47,920 pressure on Panama as an example and got Panama to back out of 854 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,520 the the Belt and Road Initiative. 855 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,920 But I'm not convinced on the whole, it's a big enough 856 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:57,440 strategy and maybe a big enough priority rather. 857 00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:59,760 And maybe it comes back to, to bite us in a few years. 858 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:05,160 But yeah, it's, it's a very, it's a very hard one to, to kind 859 00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:09,760 of ping governments on when there's a lot of problems in, in 860 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,120 your own backyard. That's certainly what the US is 861 00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,520 talking about a lot lately. They're trying to sort out their 862 00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:18,800 own shit in, in the States, you know, look after jobs and these 863 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,200 kind of things in their budget deficit and all these sorts of 864 00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,440 things. And soon as you go overseas and 865 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,920 start buying copper mines and all these, you, you run the risk 866 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,760 of being accused of getting everyone at home. 867 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,120 And China had this as well. They, they had people in China 868 00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:37,000 accusing the government of being more focused on creating jobs 869 00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,000 and all these sorts of things overseas. 870 00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:44,200 And yeah, that in a, in a country like the, the US or here 871 00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,400 where you have a sort of Free Press, I'm sure those, those, 872 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,880 those cries will be even louder. So who knows? 873 00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:53,680 But is it? What about, like, how much of a 874 00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:57,720 factor do you think what the government's stability plays 875 00:45:57,720 --> 00:45:59,120 into it? Like, you know, I look at China. 876 00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:03,360 How Long's Jay been the premier president? 877 00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,520 President. Yeah, over a decade now, getting 878 00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:08,160 on 13 odd years and it doesn't look. 879 00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,520 Like he's like, there's going to be anything that's going to get 880 00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:14,520 rid of him so he can he can commit to a a long term plan. 881 00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,880 Whereas, you know, Australia, like each government's bloody 882 00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:19,880 whatever decision they make is just freaking. 883 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:23,840 You got the news is hammering them from the other side, the 884 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:25,960 opposition, and it's just like back and forth. 885 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:30,360 And it's like, what long term decision for? 886 00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,120 Like it's like they can only make something that's going to 887 00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,200 benefit us for four years. Yeah. 888 00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,320 And we'll get, we'll get real philosophical, Maddie, but 889 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:40,920 finding out what the the best type of government is and the 890 00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,000 best structure is a, is a huge question. 891 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:44,720 And no one's clearly perfected it. 892 00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:48,720 But there's clearly benefits of the way that China operates. 893 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,280 And, you know, and she came in he he wasn't meant to hang 894 00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,160 around this long. He changed the rules so that he 895 00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:56,600 could he could still be here and be in power today. 896 00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:00,120 So, yeah, there's there's obviously downsides to it, but 897 00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:02,240 there's, there's certainly pros about it. 898 00:47:02,240 --> 00:47:04,840 And the the strategy that they've had and the way they've 899 00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:07,440 been able to build out these industries like the electric 900 00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:11,440 vehicle and the other ones are ratted off before is very, very 901 00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:13,200 impressive. And I think there's a good shot 902 00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:16,400 you could say it's more capitalistic than what we've 903 00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:18,320 done in in many industries in the West. 904 00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:22,200 But yeah, I'm sure that's a that's a sort of point or a 905 00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:24,880 question for somebody far smarter to to speak to and 906 00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:26,360 there's. You can't say it's better to 907 00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:31,040 have it public or private because you look at, you know, 908 00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:35,760 when we've tried to do things, China was like the Kwinana, 909 00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,680 Kwinana facility. Like that's obviously hasn't hit 910 00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:40,320 the mark yet. And that's obviously got a lot 911 00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:45,160 of press from because, you know, RGI is a public company. 912 00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:47,880 Like, there's obviously been a shit load of investment into 913 00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:50,760 rare earths, but that's yeah, money money. 914 00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:53,160 Doesn't just on its own solve the problem? 915 00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:54,240 No, that's. Where I've learned from. 916 00:47:54,240 --> 00:47:58,400 But then even if it's, you know, not to do with public companies, 917 00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,800 look at snowy hydro like that's blown out from what, 2 billion 918 00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:06,880 to 12 billion and still hopefully like so, yeah, I don't 919 00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:08,120 even know what the answer is there. 920 00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:10,800 You need you need it like bloody Chinas hydro. 921 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:14,160 I was watching because, you know, it's Snowy's pumped hydro, 922 00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,720 whereas that China one, the the next expansion they're looking 923 00:48:17,720 --> 00:48:19,440 to, I think it's a $60 billion project. 924 00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:22,840 They're just going to hopefully bloody smash this tunnel through 925 00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,600 a mountain from the top part to the low part. 926 00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:29,520 And it's just all free flowing hydro from the top of the Tibet 927 00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:31,760 mountain. So yeah, I mean you. 928 00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:35,480 You need to have a certain type of geography to be able to to 929 00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:37,640 pull that off. But I mean, yeah, three gorgeous 930 00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:41,440 dam and another type infrastructure projects such as 931 00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:42,480 insane. Oh mate. 932 00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:45,200 I can't wait to be if bloody, if there's a government changing, 933 00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:48,080 imagine if that nuclear thing happens in Australia, that's 934 00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,560 going to be the next big talking point if there's bloody huge 935 00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:52,720 talking. Point, I've got a yeah, a lot of 936 00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:55,680 a lot of thoughts about that. It's a yeah. 937 00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:57,960 It'd be be a really interesting one. 938 00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:00,520 And you, you said yourself about the snowy hydro challenges and 939 00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:04,640 the, I think we're currently at a 6X cost blowout on that one. 940 00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,160 And Can you imagine if, if the government kind of has to do 941 00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:11,280 something that's on many multiples of that sort of scale, 942 00:49:12,240 --> 00:49:14,880 what a cost blowout would do to our government budget would be 943 00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:19,200 pretty catastrophic. So it's a really, really 944 00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,600 interesting and important topic to talk about. 945 00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:24,000 But what do you think our scale is? 946 00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:25,880 Australia. We're just such a small player 947 00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:27,720 compared when you class the West. 948 00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:31,600 We're just such a small player compared to what the US can do 949 00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,440 to day China themselves, compared to what we can do to 950 00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,520 day China ourselves, what we just don't have the money to. 951 00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,840 Yeah, we don't have the money to do it obviously at the at the 952 00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,960 scale of the US, but I think in a way it's a bit of a cop out as 953 00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:46,680 well. Everyone's kind of got to do 954 00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:47,840 your part and you're doing it for yourself. 955 00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:50,360 You're not necessarily doing it for the US. 956 00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,360 You've got to tackle the challenge that you face and 957 00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:55,960 tackle it head on, right. You can't wait for the US to 958 00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:58,840 help you out. Maybe you can spare them along 959 00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:00,880 and try and have a chat. That might not be the easiest 960 00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,520 conversation to have, but you just got to think about it. 961 00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:05,480 I'm not, I'm not saying definitively the answer is for 962 00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,720 us to go and invest overseas and buy these projects and do all 963 00:50:08,720 --> 00:50:10,280 this sort of stuff. That's yeah. 964 00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:13,480 That's not I mean. Investing locally to build out 965 00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,160 as China similar China stuff yeah, it just. 966 00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:20,760 Needs a a strategy that's very well thought out and yeah, sort 967 00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:24,640 of more speaking to what, what I notice at the moment as opposed 968 00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:27,360 to any sort of solutions out there right now. 969 00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:29,840 But we're we're bloody good at mining and maybe that's what we 970 00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,360 should hone in on. And maybe thinking about how we 971 00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:35,840 permit projects and speeding up that side of things is the way 972 00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:41,320 we tackle this this China dominance and go about future 973 00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:44,440 proofing out ourself. There's, there's very different 974 00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:46,680 ways to do it. And the playbook that works for 975 00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:48,680 the States and the playbook that works for China is not going to 976 00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:49,680 work for Australia. Yeah. 977 00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:54,160 Last question from me, JD, since we're on macro, this is going to 978 00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:55,680 really get philosophical for you. 979 00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:59,320 I reckon you've thought about it, all this Dodge stuff that's 980 00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:05,760 happening, all this claims of fraud and, and talking about 981 00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:10,240 listen to Musk on Joe Rogan, which is, you know, a macro 982 00:51:10,240 --> 00:51:15,280 podcast talking about like finding $1.8 billion that was 983 00:51:15,720 --> 00:51:19,800 funding some NGO by the government, which is effectively 984 00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:22,600 a government funded organization, not an NGO. 985 00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,760 Like all those like, yeah, add up all this savings that they're 986 00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:29,440 going to make and all this spending to people that it's 987 00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:34,080 going somewhere, it's going to someone when they stop giving 988 00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:36,760 all this money out and reduce their debt. 989 00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,960 Is it, what do you think the effect globally is on all these 990 00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:43,960 places around the world or people around the world that 991 00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:47,600 aren't getting this money now? Is it going to flow in a 992 00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:49,400 positive or negative way globally? 993 00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:55,240 Try to tread carefully, not get into into politics. 994 00:51:55,240 --> 00:52:01,400 Why not? I think, I think that the broad 995 00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:03,160 strikes are a positive trend, mate. 996 00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:05,160 That's, that's kind of how I think about it. 997 00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:08,160 I think about the, the cleaning up. 998 00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:13,840 I think the overarching desire to, to fix up for the, for the 999 00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:16,600 US, you know, obviously not American, so they can do 1000 00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,520 whatever they want, but their desire to fix up their balance 1001 00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:24,040 sheet is, is a good thing. I think that's a direction the 1002 00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:28,640 country should, should kind of head in for the, for the, for 1003 00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:31,200 the future of the country. And I think we've been, we've 1004 00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:33,720 been very lucky in Australia. We don't face problems to the 1005 00:52:33,720 --> 00:52:37,000 same extent. Our debt to JDP ratio is nowhere 1006 00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:40,680 near as extreme as it is in the, in the US. 1007 00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:42,840 But we've seen what can kind of happen if you spend beyond 1008 00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:44,920 humans. And I kind of think spending 1009 00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:48,920 within humans is, is the way to go, especially in, in times that 1010 00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:51,800 aren't super tough, you know, quote, UN quote, like we're not 1011 00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:55,480 in a recession and not in a downturn or anything like that. 1012 00:52:55,480 --> 00:53:01,160 So to have your, your deficit to GDP being 7% is, is pretty 1013 00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:03,240 crazy. But they've got, they've got 1014 00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,760 problems they need to tackle in the very, very near future. 1015 00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:11,360 You know, they need to refinance 1/3 of their like $35 trillion 1016 00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:14,720 in, in government debt within the next year. 1017 00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:18,080 And, you know, the way you kind of want to go about that is to 1018 00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:21,320 do it obviously at the lowest rate as possible for as long as 1019 00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:25,440 you can, you know, term it out as as the people on Wall Street 1020 00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:27,760 kind of say. But that is a pretty tough thing 1021 00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:30,040 to do when rates are where they are. 1022 00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:31,560 You know, it might have been a whole lot easier. 1023 00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:34,760 You would have done it two or three years ago, but no use kind 1024 00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:36,600 of thinking about that. So I think what they're trying 1025 00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:42,440 to do cut down their spending is is a is a positive move for the 1026 00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:43,640 country. Well, the current. 1027 00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:49,560 What about globally? I mean, yeah, that the, the US 1028 00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,360 is a strong ally of Australia, right? 1029 00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:55,520 And my thinking sides much more with their thinking than it does 1030 00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:59,760 with Chinese thinking. So I think a strong US is, is a 1031 00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:03,240 good thing to kind of have. And yeah, for for that sort of 1032 00:54:03,240 --> 00:54:05,440 matter, you kind of hope Europe does the same and sort of sorts 1033 00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:07,400 their their problems out as well. 1034 00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:09,760 Bit less confidence on on that front. 1035 00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:12,560 But I think for a sort of Western world that it would be 1036 00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:18,120 very much in our interest to to have the US get there, get their 1037 00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:22,160 house in order and have that remain the sort of status quo, 1038 00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:23,720 Then it would be the alternative. 1039 00:54:23,720 --> 00:54:27,400 But this is it's very sort of big picture, big, big thinking 1040 00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:28,680 stuff. So just. 1041 00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:31,240 Feels like if they're saving money, someone else is going to 1042 00:54:31,240 --> 00:54:34,400 lose money. I'll just be interested to see 1043 00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:37,200 if someone files on the back of them spending a lot less around 1044 00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:39,520 the world, yeah. Maybe it's an opportunity to 1045 00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:42,200 sort of reorganize and everyone can sort of think about their 1046 00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:44,600 own business or whatever it is. I mean, NGOs are kind of 1047 00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:48,440 different type example, but if you're a newspaper, which some 1048 00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:51,440 newspapers were getting getting funding, maybe you need to think 1049 00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:53,520 about things a bit differently and think about your business 1050 00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:55,600 model a bit more and a bit more innovative. 1051 00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:58,760 Yeah, just tackle the problems as they as they come toward you. 1052 00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:01,040 I've never. Been so interested in this shit. 1053 00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,400 It's like I'll just, I'll just think if let's pay less, money's 1054 00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:07,680 going out, unemployment in somewhere is going to rise 1055 00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:10,840 significantly perhaps. In the short term, but in the in 1056 00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:13,360 the long term, it's a it's a better trend in my eyes. 1057 00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:17,520 Maybe that is the the short term answer, but it it creates a new 1058 00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:19,560 playing field and you just go forward from there. 1059 00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:22,640 Love it. JD Bloody The new playing 1060 00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:25,200 field's being set by Mineral Mining Services in Open Pick 1061 00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:28,840 Contracting. I want to And before I say that 1062 00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:31,920 I'll be checking out the underground playing field in 1063 00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:35,680 Adelaide, 7th to 9th of April. The underground operators. 1064 00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:37,200 It's a playing. Field you want to be 100. 1065 00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:40,760 Bucks off your tickets MOM 100 is the code link of the shy 1066 00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:44,280 Knights mate grounded sort out the bloody camp field bloody 1067 00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:49,560 Sandvik ground sport, Loveland CR insurance, kaydrum, Gerald 1068 00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:54,400 Jones and WA water balls swig 70 million meters what Rd. project 1069 00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:57,160 engineer and cross boundary energy and they are the partners 1070 00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:01,080 that bloody love Odoro Odoro say how quick I'll finish that off 1071 00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:02,160 for you. Like it? 1072 00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:06,400 Information contained in this episode of Money of Mine is of 1073 00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:08,480 general nature only and does not take into account the 1074 00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:12,080 objectives, financial situation or needs of any particular 1075 00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:14,120 person. Before making any investment 1076 00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:17,200 decision, you should consult with your financial advisor and 1077 00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:20,320 consider how appropriate the advice is to your objectives, 1078 00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:22,520 financial situation and needs.