1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,200 Travis Ricciardo We've got a bit of a different episode today, 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:05,080 don't we? It is, it is a bit different. 3 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:08,680 We've we've coached our good friend Anthony Cavanagh, Cav as 4 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,880 as we call him of, of Chester. I think he runs the Chester 5 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,239 Opportunities Fund 1 of Cavs. You know, things he's been 6 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:20,680 talking about a fair bit. In fact, he, he alluded to this 7 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,240 stock and this company, this opportunity when we when we 8 00:00:24,240 --> 00:00:28,520 spoke to him a year ago when we did our like Fundy predictions. 9 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,880 This is a a, you know, a copper junior that Cav he's he's had a 10 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:33,360 long history with. We're going to peel that out. 11 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:35,960 Why it's interesting to him, why he's sort of, you know, why he 12 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,320 thinks there's a special situation on hand right now and 13 00:00:40,160 --> 00:00:41,480 probably just got to get out of the way. 14 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,800 Disclaimers upfront, mate. We own stock in this company, 15 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:46,600 which is have all the resources. Ding, Ding, Ding. 16 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:50,200 We're conflicted. Ignore any of our perspectives 17 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:52,280 from that angle, or just just take that grain of salt. 18 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:54,840 But I I think it's super entertaining for a number of 19 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:56,080 reasons. Kev has wanted to do this 20 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,400 episode for a long time. It's a fascinating company. 21 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,080 As he explains in the whole story, he got involved quite 22 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:04,319 some time ago, but he's just that's an interesting thinker to 23 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,240 understand and hear from him. How we try to sort of create 24 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,760 value here is both entertaining and insightful. 25 00:01:10,960 --> 00:01:14,360 And for that reason, I'm pretty keen to to share this story on 26 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:16,360 the back of obviously the deal with Sandfire that's come out. 27 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,600 Yeah, mate, I I totally agree. Hopefully money mind as you get 28 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:22,280 some value. We invite a bit of feedback on 29 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:24,240 this one. If you've got a a contrary 30 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,400 perspective to us and Cav, drop a comment, let us know. 31 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,400 Let us know why why our view might be with the wrong view. 32 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:32,000 I'm sure it'll come back one way or another. 33 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,840 Yeah mate, we've got a new partner as well, Switch 34 00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:36,880 Technologies. I'm very excited to share this. 35 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:38,240 Yeah. Tell me about switch mate. 36 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,960 Mate Switch, an engineering company based right in the heart 37 00:01:41,960 --> 00:01:43,680 of Perth. They've got 5000 square meters 38 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,280 in the middle of North Bridge. There's an old Toyota facility 39 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:50,360 there and what they do is really cool. 25 engineers working in 40 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,600 the company and they are a bunch of problem solvers mate. 41 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:55,760 So if you are running a process plant, you're at a mining 42 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,520 company in one form or another, and you've got problems you want 43 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,840 solved, which is the team you need to get in in touch with. 44 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,000 So they turn ideas into. Into solutions, that's it. 45 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,639 They execute the ideas and I'm sure there's people at mining 46 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:10,919 sites right now that have a bunch of ideas and they just 47 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,480 don't have the bandwidth to execute on them. 48 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:15,800 So Switch are the team you need to get in touch with. 49 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:18,480 They've got Mike's details in the show notes which you can 50 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:21,520 check out, but they've also got a bunch of solutions that 51 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:23,040 they've put into the market out there right now. 52 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,560 So they had this Wicked project with Pilbara Minerals. 53 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:31,560 They retrofit a CAT78550 ton dump truck, put this wicked 54 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:33,680 hybrid system in there. So a bunch of. 55 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:37,920 Really existing mechanical yeah truck with with a hybrid hybrid 56 00:02:37,920 --> 00:02:38,960 retrofits it's. Really. 57 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:40,080 What happening here in Perth mate? 58 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,400 Cost savings off the back of it. And that is that is a big part 59 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:45,480 of the message here, mate. These are cutting edge kind of 60 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,920 tech where there's a commercial business case and it saves 61 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,720 dollar per ton because this is their expertise, their 62 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:53,920 capability. JD, I thought here's here's 63 00:02:53,920 --> 00:02:56,680 here's my pitch to switch. This is to you, Mark. 64 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,240 I've got some gears myself on how you might be able to save 65 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,480 some dollars per ton in your processing facilities. 66 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,920 First one, I call this one the stop running it till it explodes 67 00:03:05,920 --> 00:03:08,560 alert system. So you have a little sensor box 68 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,320 and it warns you when a pump or a gearbox, it's about to become 69 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,240 a crime scene instead of being run proudly into the ground 70 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,360 because it survives, survived the last shift. 71 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,520 That sounds like a problem Switch can help you with. 72 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:20,520 Second one, I don't know if this ones better. 73 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:23,600 I call it the stop over grinding everything meal whisperer. 74 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,000 So it's just just a control overlay system that stops the 75 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,320 meal from, you know, turning decent 200 Micron feet into baby 76 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:31,480 powder. Not bad, not bad, I'm sure. 77 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,520 I'm sure the folks out there at the mine sites have hundreds of 78 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:36,120 these problems. They're probably better problems 79 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:38,200 than economic. They're probably very real world 80 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:40,480 problems mate, and it's a good thing we've got people like 81 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:41,960 Switch solving these problems for us. 82 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:44,240 If you've got an idea, just e-mail 83 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:48,200 mike@switchtechnologies.com. We will come up with well, that 84 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,400 will come up with the solution for your problems to save you 85 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:51,440 money. Go switch. 86 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:56,320 Go switch. All right, let's RIP in. 87 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:57,760 We've got a hell of a story to tell. 88 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,160 How do we, I don't know how to intro this story other than to 89 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:06,120 say, Kev, through knowing you've lured us into the appeal of a 90 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:11,040 very intriguing South Australian undeveloped copper stock called 91 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,000 Havila HIV. We are in stock in this. 92 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,120 We are conflicted. Anything that comes out of here, 93 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,920 like just assume that that, you know, we have every incentive 94 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:20,720 for the for, for an outcome higher than where the share 95 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,320 price is today. So just count everything we're 96 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:23,360 going to say from that perspective. 97 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:25,200 But we bought shares on market with our own money. 98 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:27,360 So hopefully there's some alignment on that front. 99 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,320 I don't even know where to begin here mate, because. 100 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:34,960 I actually did check my notes and I'm like, where did it begin 101 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,080 for me? Like it was kind of one of those 102 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,960 stories as a S Australian and someone who's caught up in the, 103 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,320 I guess the man year of copper and everyone trying to find a 104 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,920 copper asset to develop. You kind of look at everything 105 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:51,240 that's available, right? And it turns out the first I 106 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,480 guess instance that I had with the company was actually April 107 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:57,400 2022. And it was in kind of the 108 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,920 madness of it was one of the lockdowns in Melbourne where a 109 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:02,800 lot of people couldn't actually get out of the state. 110 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,600 And I was in Adelaide at the time with my family and UBS had 111 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,840 organised a, a visit to some Adelaide companies. 112 00:05:09,840 --> 00:05:13,720 A lot of them were at the time you'd say subscale and semi 113 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:15,680 economic. But amongst it, you know, when I 114 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:17,800 saw I was minerals and we saw an aspirin, a few of the other 115 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,680 larger plays, but in the mix was Havilah. 116 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,920 And so at the time it was like a $60 million company. 117 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,480 And I remember going out there and seeing all the optionality 118 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:29,480 of the assets and just turning to a few of the guys going. 119 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,160 That was really interesting. But like, it's a $60 million 120 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:33,960 company. Like, what the hell is going on 121 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,360 here? And as a family member of mine 122 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:39,480 who'd previously mentioned it to me and I called them up and I'm 123 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:41,760 like, what? What were you telling me about? 124 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:44,480 Haven't they like, oh, yeah, it's my only PA position and I 125 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:45,560 think you should really take a look at it. 126 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,000 I'm like, oh, look, it's probably too small for us, 127 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:52,560 really subscale. And on that same day, we saw Oz 128 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:54,920 Minerals later in the Arvo. And Oz Minerals was talking 129 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,000 about how they've done these deep dives and all the copper 130 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,440 assets literally globally, not just in Australia. 131 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,440 And I couldn't help but think to myself, maybe there's something 132 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:05,120 in it. Like the conversation we'd had 133 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:09,640 from Havilah needing a big capital partner to help develop 134 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:13,640 that asset to Oz Minerals needing a ready to develop 135 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,040 copper asset that literally had done all the exploration work, 136 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:17,240 they just needed to get into production. 137 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:19,880 I was kind of like, at the time, it was one of those thoughts you 138 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:21,760 never really do anything about. It's just like, geez, there's 139 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,880 something probably there, but nothing's going to happen. 140 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,200 And I can't remember when exactly the deal got 141 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,880 consummated, but it would have been say six months later down 142 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,720 the track that OZ Minerals ended up kind of putting an offer on 143 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,880 to that asset in Kakaru. Yeah, there's an option, an 144 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,880 option agreement that they they entered there from memory. 145 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:42,560 Yeah, 100%. And at the time I was just like, 146 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,320 wow, like one of those instances where just fortuitously you saw 147 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:48,800 the two companies in the same day, both South Australian 148 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,120 companies. You thought maybe you'd be great 149 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,320 synergies to see those two together, one needing capital, 150 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:56,280 one with capital, one wanting a growth project, 1 needy 151 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,800 desperately a growth partner. And then they come together and 152 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:01,240 you're like, oh, wow, we were there. 153 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,040 And I'll send a message to some of the guys that are on the same 154 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,280 site because they're going. Isn't that neat that that kind 155 00:07:05,280 --> 00:07:08,360 of happened together and kind of nothing came of it at the time. 156 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,360 And just like, yeah. And I mean, I think at the time 157 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:13,200 it was probably around a $400 million deal. 158 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:14,800 I know there was different structures to it. 159 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:16,520 The, the recent Samphi deal has been announced. 160 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:20,640 But lo and behold, obviously the BHP as minerals takeover 161 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,600 occurred and in the mix was kind of like this small asset that 162 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,160 probably didn't really fit within the BHP portfolio, 163 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,720 obviously didn't the way kind of transpired. 164 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,920 But at the time you're like, what's going to happen with the 165 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,440 with that asset? And I started getting interested 166 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,080 probably as the potential investment thesis when I've got 167 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,560 a feeling that Havilah had gone to $0.27 at the time, which 168 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:47,680 would have been, I'm going to say about 100 million market cap 169 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:49,440 maybe. No, no, probably even less. 170 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:54,160 When it was kind of almost, it felt to me 5050 almost where the 171 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,520 BHP was going to kind of progress with that option that 172 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,120 that OZ Minerals originally entered into once they'd taken 173 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:04,200 over OZ Minerals. But yeah, and then BHP kind of 174 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:09,280 reneged from that option. And it kind of, I think I, I, I 175 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,000 should pull up my chart, but from memory, Haveler went down 176 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,200 to like, I think 15 or 16 cents. And everyone just thought 177 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,920 there's, there's nothing here. But all the information that I 178 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,600 was hearing from everyone involved was that Haveler was 179 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,640 going to be, well, technically it stood up. 180 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,000 It's just that it was too small for BHP. 181 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:31,400 It had no technical flaws. There was a lot of interest in 182 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:35,000 the asset because of the grades, because of the oxide layer that 183 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,480 sat on the top, because the location and because of some of 184 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,480 the exploration hits nearby that almost, you know, became a 185 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,760 province play in have a look. But it kind of nothing really 186 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:50,200 was ever going to happen at that stage because it just was became 187 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:52,520 one of those small cap companies that just didn't have the 188 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:57,160 capital and didn't have the eyeballs And no offense the 189 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:58,840 management team, but I don't think it was marketed 190 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,160 appropriately. So we I'm having to have to go 191 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,120 whatever direction you want to take those kind of comments, 192 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:06,120 but. I remember, I remember you first 193 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,840 like mentioning it to us like, yeah, must must have, must have 194 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:13,760 been subsequent to that option lapsing that would that BHP let 195 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:15,600 lapse. And I remember you saying like, 196 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,080 I still think it was a good trade because you know, what was 197 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:20,800 the probability that BHP exercised that option or not, 198 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:22,280 yada, yada. And even if the stock failed, 199 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:24,640 like you still remember articulating to ask that you 200 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,680 still thought that was a good, a good, a good bet to have made. 201 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,320 Then another bit of context on this. 202 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:36,520 I'd heard from someone that the, the, the BHP, like, you know, 203 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,640 deal with Oz Minerals is part of the rationale why OZ Minerals 204 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:41,640 signed the option agreement in the 1st place. 205 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:43,920 Would have like maybe, maybe that option agreement was 206 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,840 actually part of the defense, you know, value negotiation 207 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,440 stance from, from Oz minerals in the 1st place. 208 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:52,640 Maybe they didn't actually necessarily have the view to 209 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:54,720 exercise that option, but at least having that on the table 210 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,480 gave them some links to negotiate an uplift in price 211 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,880 from, from BHP, which ultimately did come to fruition. 212 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:05,040 But you still zoom out and you think there were two 22 copper 213 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,760 projects in Osmond's backyard that they could have chosen 214 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:09,920 from. And, and the knock on both of 215 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,160 them for the longest period of time is that they haven't come 216 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,240 knocking on, on either of them. And that was that was Rex 217 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,280 Mineral Hillside and that was Havilus Kalkuru. 218 00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:23,160 And the one that they they did A at least a paper deal on was was 219 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:27,080 Havilus Kalkuru. Yeah, I I definitely heard 220 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:30,600 something similar. So in amongst my interest in 221 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,960 this company, I've spoken to most of the key players I think 222 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,840 that have been involved with it. Excellence Mineral staff 223 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:41,200 members, other people associated with the deal, geologists who've 224 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:43,280 who've looked at the data, people within the South 225 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,920 Australian government, all types of different parties. 226 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,200 Just to understand why this asset still sat there as like 227 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,280 this undeveloped asset that has approximately .9% copper 228 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:53,640 equivalent grade for another pit. 229 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,600 It almost became a semi obsession of mine to understand 230 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:58,680 why this asset was still left undeveloped. 231 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,520 I think it might have those conversations might have 232 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,640 progressed one night over dinner when there was another money in 233 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,880 mine guest that kind of been on your show when I was discussing 234 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,120 with him what his thoughts were and potentially trying to 235 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,920 progress a deal with them. And, and I could, I could take 236 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,560 you through a story, but I don't necessarily want to reveal who 237 00:11:17,560 --> 00:11:19,800 that was in case they, they don't necessarily want their 238 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:24,920 name to be associated with it. But certainly worked our own 239 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,040 angle to try and help the management team, I guess 240 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,520 liberate value from this asset. And there was probably, I would 241 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:36,680 say at least three different approaches so that for the 242 00:11:36,680 --> 00:11:42,240 management team of this company between let's say 2020 like 2023 243 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:47,640 and probably early to mid 2025 in different forms. 244 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,120 And that's three from three from you and and your group Kev, not 245 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,800 to mention the the others that we correct that have sort of, 246 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,440 you know, we've been inferred that have approached the company 247 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:01,160 with with alternate proposals. Yeah, correct. 248 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:05,720 So I would say that I, I kind of almost had a investment 249 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,840 consortium and I was inspired by someone I'd saying that put 250 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,760 together a few deals of a similar type of, I guess 251 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:14,600 methodology to what I was thinking. 252 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,080 And that like, if we could help them, I guess build out their 253 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,560 management team a little and also kind of help capitalize the 254 00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:22,840 balance sheet. It might give them a bit of a, a 255 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:27,000 stronger footing to go approach the investment community with a 256 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:31,160 more institutional type of company than than what they, 257 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,160 what they have. I mean, they've, they've 258 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,480 operated a pretty shoestring budget as long as I've known 259 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,040 them and gone by piece meal with their own drill rig. 260 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:41,960 And I kind of thought to myself, well, if you can actually have 261 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:46,120 the money behind this company and actually be well capitalized 262 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:50,360 with a pathway to getting a, a fee completed with your own 263 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,440 capital and you actually bulk out the management team. 264 00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:55,040 You know, there was a few guys at Oz Murals. 265 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,240 I would have loved to say that we were able to get Andrew Cole 266 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,560 and convince him to come join the, the board or the, OR the 267 00:12:59,560 --> 00:13:01,600 management team of Haveland, which was my original, original 268 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:03,640 thought. It wasn't to be, but there was a 269 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:05,960 few guys in the mix. And I don't, I don't want to say 270 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,320 who they were in in case they didn't want to be named either. 271 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,800 But we've spoken to a few guys that we thought might have been 272 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:14,320 appropriate to, to help with the management team there and, and 273 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,840 thought what, what we had was a good proposal, including maybe a 274 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,440 corporate that might have given some added credibility to the 275 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:25,200 project and to the asset. And so, yeah, the most recent 276 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,520 approach, and I might have alluded to it on your Christmas 277 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,200 crackers special like I, I did mention the fact that I was, I 278 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,800 was pretty interested in a couple of cover plays and, and 279 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,280 one of them was this potential deal that we were, we were 280 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:40,760 thinking about at the time. But obviously that deal didn't 281 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:42,200 eventuate. And at the time I was kind of a 282 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,920 bit confused as to why management would rebuff such a, 283 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,280 such an approach. I mean us potentially helping 284 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,480 them fund their balance sheet and and take that project to A 285 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:56,960 to a PFS level and also do some further exploration drilling, 286 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:58,840 which is kind of what the Sapphire dealers look like. 287 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,320 So maybe they did learn something from from our our 288 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,240 approaches is kind of what the Sapphire dealers kind of come 289 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,960 out with. But we were going to help them 290 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,720 to basically develop that to a, to a PFS sage themselves or to a 291 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,840 prefit Sage themselves. Yeah. 292 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:21,560 So there's a lot to it, but what I think is transpired ultimately 293 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,120 is that there's been a lot of people that have have looked at 294 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,720 the asset and most of the feedback I've had is that 295 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,960 there's been no technical flaws with the asset, which is the 296 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,720 same feedback that we've had from our independent technical 297 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:34,880 experts that have looked at it they've. 298 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,240 Had an open data room for for a very long time here, right? 299 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,280 Yeah, correct. They have had an open data room 300 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,480 and there's been quite a number of parties I believe that have 301 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:48,480 gone through that data room. Our fund had personally been 302 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:52,560 approached by two or three of those parties asking for 303 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:57,360 opinions, advice, asking for someone that might actually be 304 00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,560 able to push management in a certain direction. 305 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,760 So I was certainly around diggers expecting that maybe 306 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,160 something might occur of, of this type of standing. 307 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:09,720 That's not to say we're 100% happy with the price or the way 308 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,680 the share price has reacted since, but there's certainly 309 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,280 been a number of parties that have expressed interest and done 310 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,760 the detail as far as I'm aware on, on the asset. 311 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:23,280 And I mean, my, my, my business colleague and I, Rob, we, we 312 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,200 were in Perth 12 months ago, I'd say now. 313 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,000 And I remember having the meetings with most of the 314 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:32,400 companies in Perth. You know, your, your standard 315 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:35,320 companies and you know, your S 30 twos, your sand fires, your 316 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,800 even some of the gold names. And the consistent feedback we 317 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,840 kept getting was that everyone would have loved a developable, 318 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,560 developable copper asset in Australia, right? 319 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,480 And it just was consistent over and over again. 320 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,440 Oh, we just love a 50,000 tonne per annum asset in Australia for 321 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,040 copper. And obviously, you know, Mac was 322 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:57,960 there, but you know, that was already developed and you, you 323 00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,880 had to pay a pretty full price tag is what we're seeing in 324 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:02,680 Harmony to acquire that asset. But everyone just consistently 325 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:04,640 said we'd love a developable copper asset in Australia. 326 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:07,360 And I just kept thinking to myself, well, has anyone 327 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:11,040 actually looked at this asset? I mean, I know that there's been 328 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,000 some assets up in Queensland that have transacted and 329 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:17,160 obviously the Rex Minerals deal. But my understanding of Rex is 330 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,320 it's, you know, probably more pristine pastoral land than than 331 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,720 what they have in Broken Hill. The Gray is probably a little 332 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,920 bit lower and it's probably a bit bit more complexity in the 333 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:31,000 build it at Rex's project and there is a Kakaruso it was it 334 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:31,560 was that. Coming. 335 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,760 Yeah, it was that Rex deal that got JD and I very interested in 336 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:38,120 Havelock because the moment you saw this, you know, yeah, $400 337 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:41,160 million deal for Rex, it was like, well, if Oz thought that 338 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,040 Havelock was the better asset then and and this company's got 339 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,800 a market cap, I think at the time was like 6065 million bucks 340 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,400 or something like that. We touched on the the winner one 341 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,040 as well, which you. Know has got. 342 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,280 Strengths to it, but. You stole my winner Thunder, 343 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:54,960 right? I think I was half the winner. 344 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:56,760 Deal got announced. I think I sent you a message 345 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:01,560 similar to the line of if we know he's worth XXX, then Kakaru 346 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,760 is worth dot dot Don. I think he used that and put out 347 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:06,720 a tweet at the time. But at the time you were trying 348 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,079 to kind of, I guess yeah, he he discrete the fact that like 349 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:12,880 paddler and Kakaru were the companies and the and the copper 350 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:14,280 name that I was talking about in my Christmas crack. 351 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,920 But anyway, yes, what will be will be, but unless we see that 352 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,599 today, I mean, we could we could delve into the deal because I'm 353 00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:23,359 I'm still sitting here going. Before the deal, let's talk 354 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,319 about the the share registry of have a lot like why has there 355 00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:29,920 been an impediment to to, I don't know, do a deal like 356 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:31,600 what's the the shareholder dynamic and the influence on the 357 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:32,840 company. And it's not necessarily like a 358 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:34,960 bad one. There's just a hold out on on 359 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,040 value, yeah. Someone actually asked me about 360 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:40,520 this today and they're like, oh, what can you tell me about the 361 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,480 the havless share registry? And I'm, I'm like, well, he's 362 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,680 pretty devoid of institutions. I think there might be one or 363 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,320 two. Some of them aren't necessarily 364 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,520 institutions in your black and white scheme of institutions. 365 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:55,960 There's an interesting character called Bob Johnson. 366 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,640 And I, I don't think we've got enough time to go through the 367 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:04,280 whole history of Bob, but Bob was the founder of, of Haveler, 368 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,040 also the founder of Chemical Map Tech, the company. 369 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:08,800 The company. Yeah. 370 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,560 And Bob has a lot of influence within the company to the point 371 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:15,200 where I had presented to the board previously some of my 372 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,160 thoughts on on Habler and Bob was in the room at the time, 373 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:23,960 which I thought was interesting because I think he he's 374 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,800 basically as a material shareholder and an ex founder of 375 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,160 the company, he still has a fair bit of sway with the with the 376 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:31,520 current board and the management team. 377 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:36,040 So sometimes to the point where it's extremely influential. 378 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,960 So and he's his position on the share register has been 379 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,400 questioned at times in terms of how much stock he actually 380 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:46,400 controls. So I think that's an interesting 381 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,800 aspect to the whole register. And I think sometimes the 382 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,240 companies end up doing some things that aren't necessarily 383 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:55,640 interested of all shareholders might be the best interest of 384 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:57,920 Bob. But when you're a founder of a 385 00:18:57,920 --> 00:18:59,680 business, sometimes that's what happens. 386 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,640 We've seen plenty of examples of founder LED businesses doing 387 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,680 some things this, this year in particular that might not 388 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,240 necessarily be for all shareholders, but I think he's 389 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,440 gotten really interesting past Bob. 390 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:15,560 And I think I, I believe when I presented to him and the board 391 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:19,000 that we shared some similar philosophies and into what 392 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:23,000 Haveler and Kakaru could be for particularly SA and, and the 393 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,320 industry at large. I generally see kind of Kakaru 394 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:28,480 and the province that they're in has kind of almost been a 395 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:32,120 foundational asset for copper in SA beyond obviously there's 396 00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:36,840 Olympic dam, prominent hill and Carapatina, but I, I think SA 397 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,800 could be a lot more than that. And, and this province, the 398 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,640 Carapatina province that sorry, the Kunamara province that 399 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:48,120 they've got has the potential for a couple of Kaparu look 400 00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:49,480 alikes. I mean, we've seen some really 401 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,000 interesting hits that have been there that just haven't been 402 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:53,600 followed up because they've had the capital to drill. 403 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,840 And I'm really excited as to what could actually transpire 404 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:58,920 from some of the some of the drill holes that might be 405 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,920 drilled with the expiration money that Sanfi is throwing it 406 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,160 at the province. So, yeah, like, I mean, there's 407 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:09,280 so much, so much to it, but I think that, yeah, Bob. 408 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:13,400 Bob Johnson is very super. Interesting to, to, to the the 409 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:17,520 credit of management, it's not like they were like spending a 410 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,960 crazy amount of money and, and diluting, diluting existing 411 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,000 shareholders a massive amount along that way. 412 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,960 They've just been there's been a holdout for a deal that has been 413 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,440 somewhat comparable to the one that was was tabled by by Oz 414 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,440 Minerals. And and now as of a couple weeks 415 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:35,480 ago, we've finally gotten a deal that is comparable to the the 416 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,960 one that was tabled by Oz Minerals in 2022, which you want 417 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:42,400 to run us through what what that deal was Kev with sapphire? 418 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:44,640 Yeah. I think, I think as to your 419 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,080 point, some of the challenges have been that like that deal 420 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:52,000 being a couple of years old now, that was at a copper price I'm 421 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,840 guessing now about 3 bucks, 50 a pound and obviously we're about 422 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,400 5 bucks today. And I'd say gold prices are 423 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,560 probably 1500 US and and we're you know 4th around 4000 today. 424 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:05,480 So you've had a pretty strong commodity price environment 425 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,720 since the OZ Minerals deal when the deal implied was $400 426 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:10,920 million. So I can understand management's 427 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,080 I guess anchoring to thinking that maybe they should be 428 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,560 holding out for a $600 million type of price tag. 429 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,920 But this probably comes to your original point, Trev, when you 430 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,200 mentioned that some people had suggested that HAVA was almost 431 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:27,280 used as a bargaining chip to BHP where some people might have 432 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,400 suspected that maybe the price tag that which OZ Minerals have 433 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,080 struck that that deal might have been probably 100 or $200 434 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,680 million higher than. So what might have otherwise 435 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,360 been the case if BHP wasn't lurking there as a, as a 436 00:21:38,360 --> 00:21:40,520 takeover bidder that they were trying to I guess push in One 437 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:42,840 Direction. So that probably created some 438 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,120 issues for management and the expectations from I guess 439 00:21:45,120 --> 00:21:49,560 shareholders and even themselves going well, geez, $400 million 440 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:53,280 price tag with copper price and gold price now higher, you know, 441 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,440 how can we how can we transact on anything in you know, and 442 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,640 some of the price tags that I suspect have been floating 443 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,480 around have been two $300 million, right. 444 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:07,160 So this this deal that they've now got with, with Sandfire $105 445 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:11,440 million upfront script and cash. So that 105 does swing around a 446 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:15,160 bit with a Sandfire share price that literally gets them an 447 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:19,800 option to potentially acquire another or 80% of the asset for 448 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:24,240 another $105 million. So that in itself is I think 449 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,440 extremely interesting for have the shareholders. 450 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,800 I think the price tag itself, even though the headline looks 451 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,880 like it's $210 million for 80%, you've got to remember they're 452 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:38,760 also funding Atfs which could be anywhere $50 million, I think 453 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,240 could be a little bit higher than that even they're they're 454 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,360 putting $30 million into expiration into into ground that 455 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,000 otherwise wouldn't have seen that that type of capital spent. 456 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,080 And then at the end of all of that, people have said to me 457 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,280 that the biggest risk is that Sam file might do all that work, 458 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,440 work and then walk away. I mean, if they did spend that 459 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:02,000 money, let's call it 100 and what, $185,000,000 including the 460 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:06,680 PFS costs and the expiration costs and then walked away, I 461 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,240 mean, is that a risk to tablet? Because then they would end up 462 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,760 with 100% of this asset, right, That has had a fair bit of 463 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,040 interest beyond just sand, fire and oz minerals. 464 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,360 That upfront is non is non refundable. 465 00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:19,680 They get to keep. Worth, yeah, 100% is binding, 466 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,360 yeah, and it's non refundable as long as at the EGM the 467 00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:25,200 shareholders vote for it to occur, right. 468 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,520 So yeah, that is itself extremely interesting. 469 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:31,760 If then Sand Fire wants to progress with the 80%, they then 470 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,440 need to spend another $105 million in cash and script, 471 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,280 which is in itself extremely interesting. 472 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:42,200 So that then sets the price tag 85 plus 105, he goes, what 473 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,480 what's that 200 and a bit, let's call it $300 million for round 474 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,400 numbers and that's for 80% of the asset, right. 475 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,920 So then Havla are then free carried on the remaining 20%, 476 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,680 almost like the Onslow situation for the joint venture partners 477 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,120 to min res. Now you'll need to pay back the 478 00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:01,120 capital. So let's let's say that this is 479 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:06,280 AI don't know $1.2 billion project 20% of that, you're then 480 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,920 going to be talking $250 million that needs to be repaid from the 481 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,440 cash flow of the asset might take two years to to repay it if 482 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,240 I'm I'm being optimistic and generous, but. 483 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:15,960 Importantly, Havlet don't have to fund that. 484 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,080 They don't have to. Havlet don't have to fund right. 485 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,880 So you're talking about a company that's, you know, 486 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:22,360 literally gotten by on a shoestring. 487 00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:24,760 And you rightly pointed out that I think management have done a 488 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,280 really good job in controlling costs. 489 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:28,240 Like people can call this a lifestyle company, but it's not 490 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,040 a lifestyle company that's going been going out there and 491 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,160 spending a lot of money. I think Chris has done really 492 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:33,880 well for the the budget that they've had. 493 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,360 I just, I just think maybe at times they could have been a bit 494 00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:39,920 more market facing and kind of driven a lower cost of capital 495 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:41,640 for themselves and had the ability with more capital. 496 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,880 But what will be, will be that's in the past, but they've done 497 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,560 really well with the, with the budgets they've got. 498 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,120 They're now in a position where they're going to be fully funded 499 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,960 for that asset, don't have to put any dollars in themselves, 500 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,000 gets to a point where they're going to have 20% of it. 501 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:57,880 That's free carry, don't have to put in any capital. 502 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,840 And you're getting a 20% stake in what is originally going to 503 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,280 be probably a 40 to 50,000 tonne per annum project, maybe could 504 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,120 get upscale to an 80,000 tonne per annum project with a 20 505 00:25:07,120 --> 00:25:08,680 million tonne per annum mil. I don't know. 506 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:13,120 But at the same time, in a small cap copper space, you know, as 507 00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:15,240 well as I do, there aren't a huge amount of ways to play it 508 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,120 like we're playing develop because you know, we, we love 509 00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:20,720 everything that Bill's doing. Maybe not so much the Woodlawn 510 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:22,360 ramp up today, but I think it's going to come good. 511 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,480 But there's not, there's not many ways to play copper, right. 512 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,080 And this is kind of almost to look through it a stand fire 513 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,880 type of asset, a non operated position in an asset that's 514 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,440 operated by Sand Fire in Australia. 515 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:41,720 So yeah, I still think at these prices, if the look through 516 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,240 before you even think about the 20% is $300 million for that 80% 517 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,840 stake. And then that 20% stake you'd 518 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,680 assume would get transacted close to MPV. 519 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,880 You know if you've got Japanese or Korean money looking to buy 520 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,480 into that project when it gets to an FID decision, I'd assume 521 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,720 it a transactor close to NPV. Now our MPV are the project 522 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,000 using gold prices close to where they are now and and long term 523 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,320 commodity prices in line with consensus like a copper price of 524 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:12,320 4:50 to 5:00, we get $1.5 billion Australian and 10% 525 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,680 whack. So that 200, so that 20% sorry 526 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,240 could be worth as much as $300 million in its own right, which 527 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,720 gets you to about a $600 million type of valuation. 528 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,360 Now, this is a small cap company that has always struggled for 529 00:26:23,360 --> 00:26:26,680 capital and, you know, has got a, an interesting register, as 530 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,000 you said in the management team that I guess a lot of people in 531 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:30,400 the market don't necessarily bat. 532 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,120 So you've got to trade a discount to that $600 million. 533 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,000 But I was still seated today and I think I said it to you guys 534 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,000 the day of the deal. I thought the day after the, 535 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,120 the, or the day the deal had been announced, particularly 536 00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:44,400 when it opened up at I think 3334 cents was cheaper than it 537 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,960 was the day before. Even I was up 30%. 538 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,440 I think it's a funny thing to say, but on a risk reward basis 539 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,880 when the asset is potentially now going to be operated by sand 540 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:56,320 fire with a clout that they have and and their ability to develop 541 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,280 projects as as we've seen with Mathiary, I I just think it's a 542 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,200 completely different company to what it was before. 543 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,080 So Kev, with, with all the work you did over over the years 544 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,560 looking at it, the the proposals you put together, what did you 545 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,040 actually think of the deal that that Sandfire and and the 546 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:14,400 company agreed to? I've had a couple of people ask 547 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:20,760 me this and I, yeah, I, I don't want to go too detailed as to 548 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,520 why I got asked this by someone in particular, but I actually 549 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,720 said to this person, I, I thought it was a really good 550 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,360 deal. I thought it was a really good 551 00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:33,000 deal in the fact that Sand Fire have entered into a binding 552 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,040 situation. Whereas the Oz Minerals deal, 553 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:36,800 there was an option over the asset for one or two years. 554 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:38,280 He kind of was sitting half pregnant. 555 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:43,040 Whereas this, once the EGM gets voted on, assuming it hasn't 556 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,600 been an interlope bar, then it's binding, right? 557 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,320 So Sand Fire are obligated to give Havilah that that that 558 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,560 capital upfront. Yeah, you can still say there's 559 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,800 a question mark where they're going to take the other 80%, but 560 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,440 that puts Haveler in a very strong position at that point. 561 00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,920 I would say that the the the fact that they've still been 562 00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:02,560 able to retain some of the southern tenements 100% owned 563 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,440 like that was one of the sticking points with anyone 564 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,640 trying to approach the company for a full company takeover. 565 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,360 Is that the management team and and Bob genuinely believe in the 566 00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:14,200 southern tenements. There is going to be a cavalry 567 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,680 look alike. Now I haven't seen all the data. 568 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,000 I, I, I can't confirm or deny whether that's going to be the 569 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:24,240 case, but like Bergscape for them stands as a really 570 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,840 interesting prospect. And, you know, they almost have 571 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:28,480 dreams that it could be bigger than Kakaru. 572 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,560 I think the fact that they're still able to retain a stake in 573 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:33,480 Muturu, which I haven't even mentioned when I was talking 574 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,920 about the $600 million in value they've potentially got at 575 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,880 Kakaru. Muturu for me, you know, 20 576 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,560 million tons plus, you know, one plus percent copper or some 577 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,320 cobalt and a little bit of gold I think stands as a really 578 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,480 interesting asset as well. And JX Advanced Metals from 579 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,560 Japan have been negotiating with them on that asset. 580 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,320 I think the exclusivity period has expired on that, but I still 581 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,400 think there's optionality for a deal to occur there and maybe 582 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,360 that could be $100 million of value in its own right. 583 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:02,280 We certainly see value 100 plus particularly thing come up with 584 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:06,160 a an infrastructure solution. So I actually think the deal 585 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,560 picks a lot of boxes in my mind. I would have loved to see a 586 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,680 higher price, but at the same time, you know, compared to the 587 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,280 Oz Minerals deal, you know, we can, we can argue how I've just 588 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,920 cut it that maybe there is $600 million worth of value here, 589 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:24,760 which you know, means that Bob and Chris did the right thing 590 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,960 in, in not kind of selling out the company for a cheaper price 591 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,480 or selling the asset at a cheaper price than what they 592 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,560 have. Because you know, if they if San 593 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,600 Fi can get this project to an FID decision. 594 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,280 And then if they did want to sell that 20% stake, which is 595 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,880 free carried and maybe you can get 200 million plus for it, 596 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,640 then yeah, maybe we can see five $600 million worth of value, 597 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:46,640 which with where the share price is trading. 598 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,280 Like I get it's a small cap. I get that there's been a 599 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,800 discount for this team and and everything associated with it, 600 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,600 but I don't know what the appropriate discount is. 601 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,080 I just think it's way too much at the moment, right. 602 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,320 Like, yeah, I mean. I think of the data trading the 603 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,920 day the trade was announced, it was $0.34 and the upfront 604 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,840 consideration alone was it's $0.30 per share on the on you 605 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,120 know, it's just it was a it's a table banger. 606 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:16,160 And now it's like like trading like 4340 ish 4344 cents per 607 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,480 share. And yeah, the C, the C through 608 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,800 even after tax you can you can be constructive on and. 609 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:24,800 But yeah, yeah, $150 million, right. 610 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,680 So, you know, you're literally paying for the upfront capital 611 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,880 and maybe mood row not even like you're paying for the upfront 612 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:33,560 capital, you're paying for the expiration that you're going to 613 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,640 spend and you're paying some of it TFs costs. 614 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:41,400 So yeah, like you've literally got a free option at their 20% 615 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,120 free carried holding. You've got a free option that 616 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,400 sand fire comes on, gives them another $105 million, which was 617 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,440 what's that is $0.22 I think. Yeah. 618 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:56,480 So like I, I still see kind of a dollar as being reasonable line 619 00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:00,920 in the sand, right? And that's 350 million bucks at 620 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,000 this stage of where they're at. But maybe the market's waiting 621 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,720 for the EGM vote to go through. Because I know if you look back 622 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,400 at the the history of this company, there has been some 623 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,280 some funny situations with assets in the past where deals 624 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,600 have been voted back. But yeah, I mean, it's extremely 625 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,000 interesting where it's sitting today There's. 626 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:21,800 An EGM vote end of Jan and and if there's, if there, if there 627 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,200 were any other like interest in the asset, you've effectively 628 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:31,360 got a you've got to move before that EGM. 300% So like when I 629 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,080 said I like the deal, I think another aspect I like about the 630 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,120 deal is there's been question marks whether the process that 631 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,440 they've run has been as thorough as it could be and whether it's 632 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:40,680 create enough competitive tension. 633 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,160 I don't know the insurance and outs of that whole process 634 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,240 because it's you know, subject to confidentiality agreements. 635 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,320 But now we've got a very live option, right. 636 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,920 So if you are really interested in this asset and you want to 637 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:54,720 acquire it, you've got until the end of January. 638 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:59,280 And what will be will be, right as as a shareholder, like if no 639 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,200 one else bids for the asset and it comes the end of January, 640 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,080 I'll say then Sanfi won the auction and fair play to them. 641 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,480 It's still a really good price and the share price certainly 642 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:07,720 doesn't reflect what that price is. 643 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,400 But if someone else is interested, then we're gonna 644 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,360 find that out hopefully before the end of January. 645 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,720 And yeah, and and and we'll see what what will be. 646 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,520 One, one of the other interesting details here is that 647 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,400 the stock just doesn't trade that much. 648 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,440 The, the liquidity is pretty low and obviously you've got the 649 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,160 massive shareholders and, and a few others speaking for a good 650 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,440 few percent here and there, which all culminates in a good 651 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,320 few. But as always is the case on the 652 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:33,920 day of the deal, you see heightened volume. 653 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,440 But even on that day it wasn't massive. 654 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,520 It's, it's a few percent of the company and that's completely 655 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,840 died down. So to that end, if, if somebody 656 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,560 were to come in and, and try and buy a stake there, they're not 657 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,440 going to have an awful lot of luck without pushing the share 658 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,920 price up, in my mind at least. Do you see that the same way? 659 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,440 Yeah, I think that's right. And I think, yeah, what can I 660 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,440 say? I would suspect that maybe 661 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,840 parties might have tried to consider acquiring the whole 662 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,080 company and, and maybe that might have been a bit too hard. 663 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,720 Hence they've had to negotiate in this type of fashion. 664 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,400 Like if, if I was San file, I would have thought it'd just be 665 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,440 easier to, to try and acquire the whole business, right? 666 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,320 And I, I don't know if they approached him with that 667 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,320 proposal. I, I know other parties in the 668 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:22,120 past have done so and it's been harder because of like some of 669 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:26,960 the desires of and Chris and, and you know, they pretty much 670 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,440 don't want to see this asset go at almost any price, but 671 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:31,360 eventually they've got to realise the limits of their 672 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,680 capital and, and, and other shareholders desires. 673 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:38,680 So, yeah, I think that the right, if the right approach was 674 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,120 made, I think they'd have to entertain the consideration of 675 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:42,680 the whole company being acquired. 676 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,560 But I mean, if we can see $600 million worth of value in that 677 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,840 deal, like you're going to have to see a price a fair bit higher 678 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,080 than where it is today to at least entertain an offer. 679 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,040 Can we talk about Knox? Knock Knox to the thesis, Kev, 680 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,320 One that comes up a bit is, is is met? 681 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,320 What do you say to that critique? 682 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,120 I'm just going to say I'm, I'm not technical, I'm, I'm not a, a 683 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,480 Geo, I'm not a, I'm not a engineer or any, any stretch of 684 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,800 the imagination that the people that I have spoken to and, and I 685 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:18,400 have kind of, I wouldn't say what's the, what's the correct 686 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,639 word. I've certainly asked a lot of 687 00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:24,000 people who've looked at this in detail, their opinions and 688 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,719 people that I trust, family members that have the expertise 689 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,520 and the technical know know how. And I'd say that a lot of the, 690 00:34:29,639 --> 00:34:31,639 the commentary that I received back is that a lot of the, lot 691 00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:34,600 of the mistakes that get made is that people just think you can 692 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,159 just blend the oxides and the sulfides at the same time, the 693 00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:40,440 carbonates and the sulfides. And it just, that's probably 694 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:41,719 where you're going to get tripped up. 695 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,040 Like you, you probably need 2 separate processing circuits for 696 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:46,480 the oxides and, and for the sulfides. 697 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,840 And if you are to process them separately, it's my 698 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,400 understanding and, and all the, the work that has been done on 699 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,600 recoveries and even probably the work that BHP did that supports, 700 00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:58,880 you know, some reasonable recoveries. 701 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,240 You're not talking high 90s, but you're talking 90% types of 702 00:35:01,240 --> 00:35:05,600 recoveries comes from processing those in, in, in separate kind 703 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,480 of circuits. But yeah, I mean, a number of 704 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:14,360 people have mentioned it, but it's not a like the reason why 705 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,880 the asset is where it is. It's is, it's not as simple as 706 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,480 as it could be. You know, if it was an amazing 707 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:21,520 piece of geology and it was an A grade asset, it would have 708 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,760 already been like bought by someone. 709 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,760 I would say that we've heard plenty of other, I guess assets 710 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:33,400 that, you know, during certain markets that most people 711 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,280 question them, right. Like I think we've thrown out 712 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,520 different examples where people questioned Doug Ranger, people 713 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,840 questioned, you know, Capricorn's color window asset, 714 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:42,560 right? Like a slow grade, it's, you 715 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,840 know, tough ore body, whatever. But like in the right 716 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,680 environment and the right operators, you find solutions to 717 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,240 these types of things, right? There's plenty of examples 718 00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:54,080 where, you know, in the right priced environment that these 719 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:58,080 assets work. You know, at gold prices of 1000 720 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,360 bucks an ounce and copper price of 3 bucks 50 today, maybe 721 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,400 Kakaru would be a bit more of a challenging asset. 722 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,760 But like with that oxide layer that they've got on top, there's 723 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,760 500,000 oz there that's in the pre strip. 724 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,320 But if you can get the right processing circuit, that can 725 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,720 create a pretty attractive income stream to help you do the 726 00:36:14,720 --> 00:36:16,320 pre strip. That can help you get into the 727 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,320 sulfides that you know. Then hopefully you can process 728 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:26,320 at the right economics. The the do you get get any 729 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,720 comfort out of the fact that like, you know, sand fire under 730 00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:31,120 under Brendan Harris has obviously been looking at a 731 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:32,280 bunch of different growth options. 732 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,800 This is the first first deal that they've, you know, publicly 733 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:40,920 come out with since since Brendan's been MMD there, you 734 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,080 wouldn't think that they they pay themselves upfront non 735 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,120 refundable component of of of one O 5 without having some 736 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,240 degree of comfort on on the met themselves, even if they 737 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,440 they're, you know, proven to be wrong over time, like they 738 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,040 themselves must have a view that they're constructive on on the 739 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,680 met to pay a non refundable one O 5, right? 740 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,360 Yeah, I mean, I get that everyone wants to have an 741 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,080 opinion, but sometimes I'm I'm almost surprised that like guys 742 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,360 on X who'll come out and and knock the project fail to 743 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:14,120 recognize the fact that Oz Minerals, BHP, Sandfire and 744 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,680 probably at least three or four other parties that maybe can't 745 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,920 name at the moment have gone and done the network and said, you 746 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,120 know, give them the thumbs up. And yet, you know, they've 747 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,920 looked at old feasibility studies and some of the data 748 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,800 that they've seen and, you know, from from old announcements and 749 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,360 going, oh, the Met doesn't work. And it's like, well, to your 750 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,160 point, yeah, Sandfire invented a non binding agreement, right? 751 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,680 And people say, Oh yeah, it's $105 million, it's an option. 752 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:40,480 They'll go, yeah. But this is what they're putting 753 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,200 their name to, as you said, like they've, they've looked at, I 754 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,360 don't know how many projects they've looked at, but quite a 755 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,800 number of projects. And Oz Minerals, I, I sat down 756 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,400 and they've literally looked at every single copper asset that 757 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,760 was available. And, and whether or not it was 758 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,400 just a bargaining chip for BHP, you're not going to enter that 759 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,040 type of agreement if you didn't believe in it and you hadn't 760 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,800 done the work. So, yeah, yeah, I agree. 761 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,200 Like there's, there's, there's enough credibility and behind 762 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,480 the names that have put their name to it to go, well, you 763 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,840 know, there's enough detail to show that it does work. 764 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,200 So, so you've, you know, you've made the, the opportunity pretty 765 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:15,840 clear to us. We've spoken about it a bunch, 766 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:17,520 Cav It's it's super kind of interesting. 767 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,560 I'm, I'm really curious to hear about how you think about 768 00:38:20,720 --> 00:38:24,360 sizing, positioning in, in the name right now, because we've 769 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,320 spoken about it for so long. But the story has really changed 770 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,240 the the past couple weeks. And you've always been very 771 00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:32,920 disciplined about how you think about sizing and, and the like. 772 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,080 But obviously we touched on the fact that we, we personally 773 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:37,840 bought more after the the deal came out. 774 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,960 How do you think about that? Yeah. 775 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,960 I mean, like we kind of think twos, fours, sixes in our in our 776 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,680 fund and and this is this sits within our smaller opportunities 777 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,640 fund rather than a big fund that at times when we were talking 778 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:53,640 about potentially helping them with a capital solution, we were 779 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,480 entertaining the idea of, of, of maybe entering into our our 780 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,400 larger fund. But within our smaller 781 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,640 opportunities funds. It was originally a kind of a 3% 782 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:05,400 position. Like when we got comfort that 783 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,280 maybe they were going to come along and and potentially accept 784 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,320 our proposal to kind of fund the the company. 785 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,120 Then with with the capital raise, then we're thinking of 786 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:16,560 potentially taking it higher because I could see the 787 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,200 potential on the day of the announcement, even though I was 788 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,840 only a 3% position. I just, we just thought it was 789 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,320 just too attractive an opportunity with the risk reward 790 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:28,000 having improved from the deal and potentially like at least a 791 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,000 dollar worth of value sitting there at you know, 30-3 cents 792 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:35,080 that we just had to upsize it. Now whether it stays in the 793 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,400 upsize state. So it's got, it's gone above a 794 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,120 4% position now, which is one of the larger positions in that 795 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,720 opportunities fund. But yeah, it's not, we haven't 796 00:39:43,720 --> 00:39:46,080 bet the absolute farm on it. We're not taking a 10 to 20% 797 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,200 position because that's just not how we we position size at 798 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,160 Chester, but it is one of the larger positions just because we 799 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,240 say the risk, risk reward is extremely attractive. 800 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:55,760 Yeah, I like it. Kev. 801 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,320 Is there is there anything in the, in the narrative, in, in 802 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,400 the story or in the thesis that we that we kind of haven't 803 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:05,800 touched upon? I'd love for you to guys do a 804 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,680 deep dive on Bob Johnson and and some of the interesting kind of 805 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,200 history that he's had with map tech because it is a pretty 806 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,240 interesting story. I think the whole map kept story 807 00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:16,480 and then I think there was some interesting kind of court cases 808 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:20,760 that might have evolved revolved around Bob and I'm not quite 809 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:22,880 sure where they all got to, but there was there was certainly 810 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,120 some late night reading that I did that was pretty interesting 811 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,040 on the matter. I'm not sure how much that has 812 00:40:28,240 --> 00:40:33,000 impacted havless decision making positively or negatively, but 813 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,800 there's certainly some interesting features around him 814 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:39,160 and what else, what else around the story? 815 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:44,160 I mean, I, I just think that maybe we might see some other 816 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,880 interlopers, maybe. I mean, that data room has been 817 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,800 open in a long time. And, and you know, we were 818 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:51,600 personally approached by a few parties that were, were 819 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:53,920 interested in that asset. And the conversations we'd had 820 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,280 with other parties in Perth suggest that maybe there are 821 00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,040 others that are extremely interested. 822 00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,400 And I don't, you know how things, these things work. 823 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,520 When one person's interested, all of a sudden you've got other 824 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:05,400 people interested. You know, like I remember when I 825 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,120 was a single guy, as soon as you had one girl that was interested 826 00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:10,160 in you, all of a sudden you get a few more other offers. 827 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:14,120 So yeah, mate, maybe there's going to be a couple of parties 828 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,600 that come out, but I mean, you know, we've got two months and 829 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:18,720 it'll be interesting over Christmas to see what unfolds. 830 00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:21,440 You know, if not, if nothing else unfolds, then I'm pretty 831 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,480 happy with the way that Sanfi deal looks on on paper, right. 832 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,320 And and hopefully we'd see that de risk over time as as people 833 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,760 see them kind of I guess enter into that, that binding and you 834 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,680 get hopefully get a Sanfi share distributed to you as a, as a 835 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,960 HABLA shareholder or, or, or whatever it is and see how 836 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,960 things play out from there. Yeah, absolutely. 837 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,840 How the the company goes about allocating the the funds is is 838 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,240 the kind of next step to think through if if no interloper 839 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,800 emerges. Kev, it's always awesome to to 840 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,160 have you on the show to to chat through your ideas and your 841 00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:52,400 thinking. So appreciate you coming on 842 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:56,200 again mate. I, I do like to say that I, I, I 843 00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,280 don't usually like to peg myself to one stock, but I mean, I did 844 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,080 promise you guys during the Christmas cracker special that 845 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,000 like whenever something transpired with this company, 846 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:05,320 because I was a bit mysterious about it. 847 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:06,800 I don't like being too mysterious. 848 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:08,640 I'm usually pretty transparent with everything that I do. 849 00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,800 But I did say that when something happened with this 850 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,520 company that had come on. So this was as, as I promised, I 851 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,240 didn't expect to honestly take November till it occurred. 852 00:42:17,240 --> 00:42:19,200 I honestly thought it was going to be a couple of months away at 853 00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,520 the time when we filmed it. But as you know, with all these 854 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:23,600 things, sometimes everything takes a little bit longer than 855 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:25,680 you hope. But let's see what happens. 856 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:27,960 I, I seriously think there might be another chapter to this 857 00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:29,880 story, but there certainly will be. 858 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:31,880 But it's just whether or not there's another chapter in 859 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,240 between kind of the end of end of January in terms of another 860 00:42:35,240 --> 00:42:37,280 bid. So fingers crossed and let's see 861 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,400 how we go. Fingers crossed mate, let's see 862 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,080 if the the next Christmas prediction is as good as this 863 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,000 one. Crossed for a for a special gift 864 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,160 from Santa this Christmas. I don't even mind if it comes in 865 00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:48,760 January. Well. 866 00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:55,360 Yeah, I don't know what I mean, Maybe maybe getting an M and a 867 00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,800 specialist on to to figure out what's the best kind of time to 868 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:00,640 lob a bid. But I know some people that have 869 00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:02,640 tried over Christmas when it's, it's hard work. 870 00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,000 It's it's pretty, it's pretty inconvenient for some people. 871 00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,320 But you know, it certainly puts pressure on other parties during 872 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:08,800 that time. So we'll see what happens. 873 00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,440 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it absolutely does 874 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:13,240 put pressure on. No, Appreciate, appreciate. 875 00:43:13,720 --> 00:43:16,440 What's the next Havilah, Kev, you got anything else in the 876 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:18,000 works? Anything for us to study? 877 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:19,400 Up. Oh, I can. 878 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:21,360 I can recycle some of the old names that we've got. 879 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:23,120 I mean, like we still think there's a deal to be done on 880 00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,760 Comet Ridge and I, I get what you're saying about the trim 881 00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:28,720 through, but I, I seriously think there's still a deal to be 882 00:43:28,720 --> 00:43:31,480 done there. I think, you know, 400 BCF worth 883 00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:34,840 of gas that you know, is still unencumbered apart from one 884 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:38,200 small contract on it. I'm also really interested in 885 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:40,320 this Equus gas that's coming into the market in December. 886 00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:42,120 I think that looks really interesting. 887 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,920 You know, it's almost 2 TCF worth of gas with 40 million 888 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,400 barrels of condensate that's coming on with a, oh, an EV of 889 00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:51,920 maybe twenty $25 million, which I think might be a bit 890 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:53,520 mispriced. I think it's complexity with 891 00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,440 that asset as well. But I think the price tag that's 892 00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,480 coming on that is it's pretty attractive. 893 00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,280 I still think there's a lot to come from, from developing bill 894 00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:05,200 or just was without a Woodlawn. I guess I did kind of make a 895 00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,040 joke about his, his ramp up, but I, I think that's back on track 896 00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:09,760 now. I think I think the, the ramp up 897 00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:11,960 is looking pretty good and I'm, I'm looking forward to the next 898 00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,360 couple of quarters that they produce there. 899 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:16,880 Oh, what else? There's, there's quite a few. 900 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,520 I mean, Antifa, we're still waiting on some, some resolution 901 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:21,040 there maybe. So there's a few. 902 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,280 There is indeed, mate. I need to read up on there, 903 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:26,160 appreciate. Appreciate you. 904 00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,800 Yeah, being being willing to Bang Bang the table on this. 905 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,160 One mate, there's there's one thing I'll I'll never stop doing 906 00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:33,920 that's banging the table on on the on the stocks. 907 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:35,920 I know I should have, I should have done the big Ding Ding 908 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:37,880 Ding, but obviously you can tell I'm a shower, so. 909 00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,000 Ding Ding Ding around. If that is not completely 910 00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,080 obvious, just. Put the dinging gong through the 911 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:45,800 whole episode, all right? Just make sure that people 912 00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,400 realize that this is a completely biased opinion. 913 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,320 Yeah, but. Like brought to you by biased 914 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:52,800 people. Yeah. 915 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,760 Like I'd love to, I'd love to hear some retort like because 916 00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:58,320 when you see it on paper and you see it's binding and you see 917 00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,360 like the deal that's been struck, I mean, obviously there 918 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,480 are retorters because people are selling the stock at 4243 cents. 919 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,960 But I just kind of think the risk water here is pretty 920 00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:08,320 pretty. Pretty attractive, I think 921 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,440 putting your views out there is the best way to get the feedback 922 00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:12,000 mate. So keen to hear what comes back 923 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:13,080 our way after. This I'm sure. 924 00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,120 I'm sure I'll get some stuff. One way or another. 925 00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,320 See how we go. Ding Ding Ding if it wasn't loud 926 00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,480 and clear. There we go mate. 927 00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:23,000 Fantastic to have Cav back on the show. 928 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,880 It's been far too long. I always love chatting with our 929 00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,640 good man and all made possible thanks to our fantastic 930 00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:30,400 partners. Switch Technology new one at the 931 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,280 beginning of the show there as well as the classics sandwich 932 00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:36,040 ground support focus the platform by Market Tech and 933 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,440 Infralinks. Hoodoo money minus hoodoo. 934 00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:43,520 Now remember, I'm an idiot. JD's an idiot if you thought. 935 00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:45,720 Any of this was anything other than entertainment. 936 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:47,920 You're an idiot and you need to read out of.