1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,800
Righto buddy Miners is I tipped 
all the bloody MD's out there 

2
00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,200
today 'cause it's right across 
the screen. 

3
00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:10,360
I'd start drinking. 
You'll feel you'll feel better. 

4
00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:12,680
Oh, I feel better every time I 
talk. 

5
00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:16,480
Just say the word axis mine and 
technology, the trusted advisor 

6
00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:18,760
and drill all survey 
instrumentation. 

7
00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:20,720
But you can't. 
Oh, we'll be selling them an 

8
00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,720
idea too, right? 
Everyone's gone to idea Special 

9
00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,200
Special mentioned coming. 
The one company that doesn't 

10
00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:30,040
have a bad day. 
Access, Access never just NE all

11
00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:33,000
day long, right? 
We're getting to the end of 

12
00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,440
earnings and holy snap and duck 
shit, there's some, there's red 

13
00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:38,360
on the screen even for people 
that didn't have bad 

14
00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:40,680
announcements, but and there's a
few that we're going to go 

15
00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,160
through that just aren't really 
hitting the mark. 

16
00:00:44,160 --> 00:00:47,440
You'd say, unfortunately, we've 
got Trav. 

17
00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:49,480
You're going to no doubt do min 
Reds. 

18
00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,120
Mate, I'd call it a lot worse 
than not hitting the mark. 

19
00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:56,600
I call it a reckoning. 
JD you got CR 32. 

20
00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,200
Yeah, a bit, a bit lighter on 
and then I think Ali's going to 

21
00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:01,280
get into the Goldies. 
Very good. 

22
00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:05,280
Bitter red and bitter West gold.
I'm I'm a light start today, so 

23
00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:08,080
I'll just be here cracking 
jacks. 

24
00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,480
And we've got a bit of a copper 
chat coming out tomorrow, which 

25
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actually is. 
Yeah, it was. 

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00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:15,920
It was good fun with former 
guest Ahmad. 

27
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So that was a good one. 
Look out for that. 

28
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He's an easy ring in, isn't he? 
Like love you. 

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00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:22,000
Love your bloody work, Ahmed. 
Absolutely. 

30
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Later away, Trav min raise. 
You got up early for the call 

31
00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:29,080
this morning and she's down, 
what, 10% on the Spark chart? 

32
00:01:29,320 --> 00:01:31,320
Mate, it's. 
That's a fucking lot of money. 

33
00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,000
It's brutal. 
It's, it's a, it's a horrible 

34
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intraday move for a company that
big on it, on it, you know, 

35
00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,080
results, you know, and keep in 
mind results will come a month 

36
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after a quarterly. 
You, you hope a lot of the, the 

37
00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:45,840
bad news, you sort of cleansed 
and then you deliver your 

38
00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:47,680
results and you're down 10% 
more. 

39
00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,640
So there's a few wrinkles today.
And it's, I think it's, it's a 

40
00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:53,800
big evolving story. 
What's what's going on at 

41
00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:55,400
Minres? 
And I'm keen to unpack it in the

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best way possible, Maddie. 
But you know, I don't want to, I

43
00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:59,880
don't want to kind of understate
the significance either because 

44
00:01:59,960 --> 00:02:03,440
I just think this is, yeah, this
is, this is a big deal. 

45
00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:06,560
Maybe a quick caveat on like 
the, the differences between the

46
00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,440
the quarterlies and just about 
and the earnings because you, 

47
00:02:09,479 --> 00:02:12,960
you might notice the, the 
majors, the the BHBS of the 

48
00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,640
world, they'll come out with 
the, the annual and the half 

49
00:02:15,640 --> 00:02:17,320
year. 
They're not under the same 

50
00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:21,000
basket as a lot of the juniors 
that we see who are required to 

51
00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,000
come out with these 
announcements, which is kind of 

52
00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,480
specific for oil and gas and 
Hard Rock mining exploration 

53
00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:30,200
businesses. 
They come out with the 

54
00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,680
quarterlies, but you know, you 
get a much deeper look into the 

55
00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,920
financials of the business when 
the the annual results and the 

56
00:02:36,920 --> 00:02:40,320
half year results come out. 
And then of course like a min 

57
00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,920
res, we'll do quarterly numbers 
and you'll get the update on the

58
00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:45,920
the broader strokes. 
What happened on a financial 

59
00:02:45,920 --> 00:02:47,520
front. 
Do you know the, the operating 

60
00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,240
costs these sorts of things as 
well as the, the production 

61
00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:52,000
numbers for the, the yeah 
commodities? 

62
00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:54,480
And guidance is a big one too. 
The market's forward looking. 

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00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:57,920
Guidance and more clarity on 
debt more than phone. 

64
00:02:57,920 --> 00:02:59,680
Yeah, exactly. 
Way more deep, yeah. 

65
00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:00,960
Yeah, exactly. 
You get the balance. 

66
00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,280
Sheet and you get cashless trade
payables and stuff matters. 

67
00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,320
Yeah, right now what's paint 
picture, mate? 

68
00:03:07,920 --> 00:03:10,080
I'm a Ding Ding on a mini Oh. 
Allergy. 

69
00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:12,320
So allergy so. 
So I've got a red red. 

70
00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:14,000
That's why I've got a red wine 
today. 

71
00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:17,960
I mean they, they, they reported
the full year results 

72
00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,040
aftermarket yesterday. 
They let analysts kind of digest

73
00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,080
them overnight and then they 
held a webcast in Sydney where 

74
00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,480
presumably you know, the team 
are fronting institutions. 

75
00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:29,200
They're in stock over E there. 
We like we we saw how kind of 

76
00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,640
grim the numbers were in the in 
the results and we were, we were

77
00:03:32,640 --> 00:03:35,240
looking on screen to see where 
the share price opened this 

78
00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,240
morning. 
JD was it was brutal in the 

79
00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,600
spark chart, down 10% in no time
at all. 

80
00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:42,280
Share price made its way into 
the 30s. 

81
00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,640
It's floating just north of 40 
bucks as we record at the 

82
00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,040
moment. 
If you, if you zoom out on the, 

83
00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:50,720
on the, you know, longer term 
chart, the stock is down about 

84
00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:54,080
50% since May. 
And like you and I both listened

85
00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,120
to the call JD, we, you know, 
we've both looked at the numbers

86
00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,600
and we both agreed that that the
sell off's probably justified. 

87
00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:01,760
It was. 
I actually liked that they came 

88
00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:03,760
out with the numbers. 
You know you get a bit more time

89
00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:05,560
to digest. 
They did that with the quarterly

90
00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:06,520
as well. 
They have done this in. 

91
00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:11,600
Yeah. 
And look, I've, you know, 

92
00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,200
privately between US and sort of
you know, some somewhat publicly

93
00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,399
a little bit too. 
I've just been kind of getting a

94
00:04:18,399 --> 00:04:21,680
bit louder about how nervous I'm
getting with with Minres and as 

95
00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,480
Chris would call it being a 
nervous Nelly 100%. 

96
00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:26,600
I'm 100% nervous about the 
company. 

97
00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,320
And and it's because like 
there's a lot worth being 

98
00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,800
nervous about if, if you're a 
shareholder in this business as 

99
00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:35,720
they advance over the next 18 
months in particular, I want to 

100
00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:37,520
talk about the most important 
things. 

101
00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,880
So I think the the balance sheet
would be the the place to kind 

102
00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:44,400
of start that, right. 
Number one, balance sheet 100% 

103
00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:48,440
despite what, what, what Chris 
kind of speaks to in the call 

104
00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,840
and you know, like Minres is a 
cyclical business. 

105
00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:56,440
Like it's, you know, I mean he, 
he often talks about having, 

106
00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:58,200
having durability through the 
cycle because the mining 

107
00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,840
services business has these like
long term contracts with low 

108
00:05:00,840 --> 00:05:03,240
cost clients in Reagento 
etcetera, etcetera. 

109
00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,560
But it, it's a sick Minarez is a
cyclical business. 

110
00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:08,680
They're exposed to the commodity
cycle and I don't think there's 

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00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:10,120
any kind of skirting around 
that. 

112
00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,600
And being a cyclical business, 
they found themselves in the 

113
00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,600
unfortunate position of getting 
the cycle wrong from an 

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00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,560
investment perspective. 
In, in a, in a, in a cyclical 

115
00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,600
industry, you want to be counter
cyclical with your investment. 

116
00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,760
You want to be spending money in
CapEx in the, in the downturn 

117
00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:27,560
the, the extent you can, you can
fund it and then you know, 

118
00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,600
reaping the rewards in the, in 
the good times. 

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00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,840
Because to put it simply, 
they've, they've loaded up about

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00:05:33,840 --> 00:05:38,200
a billion dollars in other 
lithium investments at at the 

121
00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,440
height of the lithium, the 
lithium boom to put it simply. 

122
00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,920
And that's just all lithium is 
just unwound as everyone knows. 

123
00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,960
And they are, as you said, 
extremely exposed to that at the

124
00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:50,960
moment. 
Yeah, it's it's, it's probably 

125
00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,760
more than just the specky like 
lithium investment stuff that 

126
00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:55,880
they did. 
I mean that, you know, I mean 

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00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:59,920
Onslow kind of it's like $3.3 
billion in CapEx there. 

128
00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,360
There was, there was a lot of 
CapEx into their existing 

129
00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,240
lithium operations as well to 
you know enhance and improve and

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00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:06,960
expand, you know. 
I don't. 

131
00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,520
I don't think that billion 
counts what we don't know was 

132
00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,680
paid for Bald Hill either. 
Yeah, it's north of a billion, I

133
00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:14,880
think. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

134
00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:20,360
And I mean, look, they've, 
they've, they've like, because 

135
00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,800
the, the, the prices of the two 
commodities that they produce 

136
00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,440
iron ore and lithium, they have 
come off tremendously a long 

137
00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,440
way, leaving them with a giant 
level of, of debt and 

138
00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:32,200
increasingly challenged task of 
servicing that debt under the 

139
00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,600
kind of status quo scenario that
the company exists today. 

140
00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,400
Specifically, let's, let's talk 
about some of the, the numbers 

141
00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:38,560
relating to the balance sheet, 
right? 

142
00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,320
The quarterly announced last 
month, they stated the net debt 

143
00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,200
was 4.4 billion US. 
Now like I know the, the 

144
00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:48,160
accounting technicality, but the
like the $600 million prepaid 

145
00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,360
like was, was not classified as 
as debt, But if it, if it walks 

146
00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:53,520
like a dark and it cracks like a
dark, it's debt. 

147
00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:59,240
So call it $5 billion net debt. 
Now net off the cash and the, 

148
00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,640
you know, and, and, and the 
statements today break it down a

149
00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,040
bit. 
There's, there's this 5.4 

150
00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,760
billion in drawn gross debt at 
the moment, $500 million of that

151
00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,360
is, is asset financing kind of 
which popped up a bit out of 

152
00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,520
nowhere, but hadn't heard 
anything reported anyone had. 

153
00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:19,200
And to kind of put it into 
perspective, like that's a $5.4 

154
00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,840
billion of drawn gross debt. 
That's, that's literally the 

155
00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:26,200
same as the, the equity value of
men's market cap today in U.S. 

156
00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,880
dollar terms. 
So exact same amount of debt is 

157
00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,560
the got equity right now. 
If you just kind of think and 

158
00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,760
like when, when you, when you 
think of comparable like mining 

159
00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,640
companies, how often do you ever
kind of see that, that ratio 

160
00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,080
for, for a miner this big? 
It's a, it's a pretty kind of, 

161
00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:44,360
you know, rare, rare occurrence,
especially in modern history is 

162
00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:47,360
like a lot of the larger miners 
have have wanted to, you know, 

163
00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:49,560
maintain lower, lower debt 
levels. 

164
00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:55,720
So the, the big thing investors 
are looking for, you know, what,

165
00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:57,920
what cash flow can actually be 
used to service that debt 

166
00:07:57,920 --> 00:07:59,840
because you've got to pay that 
down eventually. 

167
00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,880
Sure you might, you know, sure 
you can kick the can down the 

168
00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:08,320
road and and of course they 
don't have any, any principal 

169
00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,280
repayments or whatever until 
like FY20 7. 

170
00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,480
But even if you refi it, you've 
still got to pay the interest. 

171
00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:17,600
So the big question is like do 
they have the the free cash flow

172
00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,600
or are they going to have the 
free cash flow available to pay 

173
00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:22,400
the interest expense on the 
debt, right? 

174
00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:24,800
Is that is that all they have to
pay the interest? 

175
00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:26,440
Is any of that interest 
capitalised? 

176
00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,240
These are these are bonds like 
you know you've got a yes it. 

177
00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:32,480
Does not. 
Not capitalised, Yeah. 

178
00:08:33,799 --> 00:08:36,039
Yeah. 
I think, I think when you say it

179
00:08:36,039 --> 00:08:42,960
like if they did not have the 
mining services division, that'd

180
00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:45,360
be completely bloody rooted like
that's. 

181
00:08:45,560 --> 00:08:48,440
Mining services is the is the 
driver of this business, yeah 

182
00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:53,560
And like I actually kind of have
the thing I want to 

183
00:08:53,560 --> 00:08:57,720
contextualise is like where's 
the free cash flow in FY24? 

184
00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:04,200
Because if you, if you just look
at the, the, you know, the, the,

185
00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,880
what they report as kind of 
operating cash flow, they, they 

186
00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:12,720
report sort of 1.3 or $1.4 
billion of, of operating cash 

187
00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,800
flow, right? 
But included in that for FY24 

188
00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,880
was a build up of $1.3 billion 
in, in working capital. 

189
00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:22,360
Basically trade payables growth 
right now. 

190
00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:24,600
That's, that's not, that's like 
you got, you know that that 

191
00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:26,560
stuff unwinds over time. 
You got, you should net that off

192
00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:28,840
sort of really think about kind 
of thing. 

193
00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,160
So if you net that off like 
where's where's the operating 

194
00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:36,000
free cash flow in this business 
in FY24, it was basically non 

195
00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,080
existent. 
I'm not talking about any money 

196
00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:39,520
spent on financing on cash 
flows. 

197
00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,440
I'm not talking about any money 
spent on CapEx or investment. 

198
00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:46,240
This is operating cash flow. 
It's quite simple to think about

199
00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,200
in the context you know, of iron
ore and then breaking down 

200
00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,920
lithium. 
Yogan doesn't make money at the 

201
00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:53,320
current prices. 
They're shutting it down. 

202
00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:57,000
The Pilbara hub, you know, isn't
really making money. 

203
00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,720
And then you can just see from 
the numbers they put out on Bald

204
00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:04,400
Hill, Mount Marion and Wagner, 
they are just not making money 

205
00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:06,440
at these prices. 
And Chris said it himself, you 

206
00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:10,280
know, he said I didn't think 
lithium would fall below 1000 

207
00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:14,920
U.S. dollars for spot 6%. 
That would speak to EBITDAR and 

208
00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,920
and PAT, but those are you don't
pay, you don't repay debt with 

209
00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,560
EBITDAR and PAT, you repay your 
debt with free cash flow. 

210
00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:23,960
So, you know, we're going to 
talk about real numbers here, 

211
00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:27,240
not the other numbers, 
accounting numbers. 

212
00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,920
So yeah, I just, I just think 
it's, you know, it's kind of, if

213
00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,760
you think about FY24 as well. 
So you've got a year where like,

214
00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,640
you know, after I make that 
deduction, where was the free 

215
00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:37,360
cash flow? 
I don't know. 

216
00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:41,280
Now since FY24 have commodity 
prices going up or down for 

217
00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:42,800
their commodities. 
They've they've come 

218
00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,400
substantially lower for the 
commodities that they're exposed

219
00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:47,480
to what they would have realised
in FY24. 

220
00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:51,040
So just adds a big shut like, 
you know, a big, a big amount of

221
00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,120
uncertainty on the on the 
durability of their business to 

222
00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,000
actually generate free cash flow
to service their debt. 

223
00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,960
It's not just the the free cash 
flow you're specifically honing 

224
00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,720
on in FI 24 as well, because 
it's no surprise that free cash 

225
00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:04,160
flow was hugely negative last 
year. 

226
00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,520
They sunk a phenomenal amount of
money into Onslow. 

227
00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,680
It's you know, so it's no 
surprise that cash went back 

228
00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,680
massively. 
But even operational cash flow, 

229
00:11:12,680 --> 00:11:15,840
if you're not taking into 
account the money spent on 

230
00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,320
investing, you know, in that 
section of the cash flow 

231
00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,160
statement, you're still kind of 
scratching your head a little 

232
00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:23,240
bit. 
You know like it like we've sort

233
00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,880
of said he'll point to mining 
services being AI think $550 

234
00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:30,960
million EBITDA business, but you
know the the lithium and the 

235
00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,360
iron ore assets are are very 
much struggling. 

236
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,200
I've got sort of probably four 
other big talking points. 

237
00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:40,400
What second one is that no 
dividend. 

238
00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,880
That's kind of unexpected 
because just, you know, you 

239
00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,920
always just sort of expect, 
yeah, it's run by a founder that

240
00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,960
owns 11% who likes a dividend. 
You know, you kind of expected 

241
00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:52,600
to be even even a minor 
dividend, but. 

242
00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,320
And then the other major 
shareholder, which is what the 

243
00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,600
other founder lot the, I 
remember in the last call, he 

244
00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,640
says we're not stopping paying 
the dividend 'cause we like 

245
00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:01,600
that. 
Yeah. 

246
00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:03,640
That's a. 
That's a big call. 

247
00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,920
It's look like I commended in 
the circumstances for sure 

248
00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:08,520
'cause I think like, you know, 
what we're seeing here is a 

249
00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,440
theme of basically austerity at 
the moment, which is, you know, 

250
00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,800
the right move. 
It might be like come, come 

251
00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:16,640
later than we that should have, 
but it's the right move. 

252
00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:21,160
And So what else we got .3. 
I think there's a theme of cost 

253
00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:24,760
cutting, but, but you know, 
pretty bulky chunky CapEx ahead,

254
00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:28,080
which makes you kind of a bit 
more have a nervous nally on the

255
00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:30,280
on the on the, on the debt 
front. 

256
00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:32,920
So like, you know, Chris in the 
call, he's pretty emphatic about

257
00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,400
the cost minimization wording, 
you know, around the business. 

258
00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,880
I think the, the fact remains 
though, that CapEx guidance for 

259
00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:44,200
FY25 is a staggering U.S. 
dollars 1.95 billion. 

260
00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,520
That's a hell of a lot more 
money that still needs to be 

261
00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,040
spent. 
So, you know, your net net debt 

262
00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,400
kind of is going to grow even 
further and kind of get even 

263
00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,480
more out of whack and it's going
to require even more, you know, 

264
00:12:57,680 --> 00:13:01,800
free operating cash flow like 
to, to, to service it over time,

265
00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,640
which that's where the fragility
kind of lies, right? 

266
00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:10,360
So, and I, I think that kind of 
leads into, you know, point, 

267
00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:14,720
point #4 and that's that the, 
the Onslow ramp up sort of seems

268
00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:19,080
to be readjusting there's. 
And I think this goes to the 

269
00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:20,760
point of my guidance changing 
and everything like that. 

270
00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:25,640
FY25 guidance for, for Onslow 
tonnes on a, you know, 100% 

271
00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:27,480
basis is now about 80 million 
tonnes. 

272
00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:29,600
Previously that number was 20 
million tonnes. 

273
00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,160
So so there's a readjustment in 
what what Onslow is going to do,

274
00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:37,440
you know, FY25 now that's a 
downgrade a month ago. 

275
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,760
They they actually even spoke on
the yeah, a month ago on the 

276
00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:43,800
call about accelerating to 50 
million tonnes per annum 

277
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,840
nameplate, you know, faster at 
Onslow and that that's 

278
00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:50,360
completely on ice now, but it's 
on ice after having put these 

279
00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:52,520
down payments and pre orders in 
for more transshippers to 

280
00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,520
service it. 
So, you know, don't know what 

281
00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:59,640
what happens to that money now. 
And I, I just like, you know, 

282
00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,440
with this, with this 
readjustment of, of Onslow's 

283
00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,400
ramp up, that's kind of the 
fragility. 

284
00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,160
What's, what's the cause of it? 
Why, why the downgrade? 

285
00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:11,080
You know, these things that that
might actually, you know, 

286
00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,160
inhibit nameplate to some 
extent. 

287
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,400
And and because the ability to 
service that debt all depends on

288
00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,920
Onslow kind of coming online and
and ramping up the plan. 

289
00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,000
In fact, there's not much room 
for error. 

290
00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,560
There's so there's so many 
moving parts with it, like with 

291
00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:29,160
the with the haulage and the 
shipping outside of the just the

292
00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:33,960
mining, there's a lot, a lot of 
party that's that whole Rd like 

293
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:35,520
that has to be humming. 
Yeah. 

294
00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,160
And it's I think it's important 
to to note like the whole roads 

295
00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:39,680
not finished. 
Yeah. 

296
00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,840
So they're what they're, you 
know, trucking and shipping at 

297
00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,760
the moment is because they're 
using this this service road and

298
00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,320
and that presents it's own kind 
of challenges. 

299
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:52,360
Like you can see this kind of 
awful picture here. 

300
00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:55,640
If if one of their their trucks 
is sort of, you know, tipped 

301
00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:58,680
over on the on the service Rd. 
Fucking the drum was all right. 

302
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:03,360
So I mean, there's this, yeah, 
you obviously are faced with an 

303
00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,040
enormous amount of limitations 
when you're when you, you know, 

304
00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,520
you're trying to reach crazy 
kind of tonnage rates using, 

305
00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:12,800
using a road like that instead 
of, you know, the proper built 

306
00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,320
road. 
And then if you, if you just 

307
00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:17,000
like think of, OK, how much do 
you need it? 

308
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,520
How much does min res need to 
produce to sort of service that.

309
00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:24,840
Now Chris likes to talk about a 
$25 margin on on Onslow tonnes. 

310
00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:28,440
Personally, I think that's going
to be pretty hard to achieve. 

311
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,280
But like, let's take his his 
word for it. 

312
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:34,880
So $25 margin on Onslow tonnes, 
assume it's a real number like 

313
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:39,000
then it's it's spot prices, you 
know, min needs at least kind of

314
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:40,880
15,000,000 tonnes coming out of 
Onslow to pay the interest 

315
00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,800
expense on the debt. 
And if final prices compress 

316
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:49,000
even more than you know. 
And if, if you kind of, if you, 

317
00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,040
if you take some of his numbers 
with a bit more of a grain of 

318
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:55,200
salt, like how much, how much 
fat do you kind of have in 

319
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:56,920
there? 
You know, how like how fragile 

320
00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,520
is is the the the the ability to
service this debt kind of 

321
00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:02,840
especially when you think you've
had challenging it is to bring a

322
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:04,680
new mine online. 
Like we've just seen so many 

323
00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:07,200
instances where you know, things
aren't as novel or as 

324
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,920
straightforward as our kind of 
Excel spreadsheet suggests. 

325
00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:14,160
And, and when you have just a 
very high, very large debt 

326
00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,520
quantum, it puts a lot of 
pressure on the equity. 

327
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,280
So, you know, they need 
everything to go perfectly from 

328
00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:20,960
here. 
And, and, and there's the risk. 

329
00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,080
What what if there's a cyclone 
this wet season? 

330
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,000
What if, you know, they get a 
bunch of rain up there? 

331
00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,080
Usually it's a cyclone Every 
Yeah, wet size. 

332
00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,520
And I think we've had a few 
decent like yeah, seasons 

333
00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:35,560
lately, you know, might be true.
For one, they're just fragility,

334
00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:37,720
right? 
And and and it makes equity 

335
00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,080
holders nervous. 
Now these which brings me the 

336
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,120
the fifth point, like you 
touched on, Maddie, I think 

337
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,320
they're just a lithium 
reckoning, you know, like, and 

338
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,760
this was a pretty sombre part of
the part of the coal jetty he 

339
00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,040
opened talking about like the 
lithium market. 

340
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,280
Personally, I think Minres has a
lot of explaining to do to 

341
00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,000
justify their market behaviour 
here. 

342
00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:03,280
You know, we were talking about 
like the lithium market with 

343
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,720
last year as as sort of Minres 
was kind of, you know, aping 

344
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,400
into all of these kind of hot 
copper lithium stocks, like at 

345
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,280
the top of the market and 
lithium prices were were far off

346
00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:17,640
the top then. 
But I mean it was min res and 

347
00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,520
you know, and Gina in some 
instances that were kind of, you

348
00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,200
know, buoying up the the WA 
lithium. 

349
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,640
Yeah, the the. 
Equities didn't pull back 

350
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:28,800
proportional to the lithium. 
Because there was this, there 

351
00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,480
was this M&A, yeah. 
Like there was AM and a bloody 

352
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:32,960
premium on it all. 
So like what? 

353
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,360
Why? 
Like why was there FOMO at the 

354
00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:37,840
top? 
You know, it just, it's very 

355
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:41,440
strange capital allocation like 
in it just, I think it just 

356
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,840
requires some introspection and 
A and A and a bit of an 

357
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,600
explanation to shareholders. 
But I think if you look at it 

358
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:49,760
like, yes, it's, it's, it's shit
now. 

359
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:54,440
But if they're if they've got 
this fundamental long, long term

360
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:58,320
view on lithium, like might be 
something in five years time, we

361
00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,480
come back and discuss and say, 
look, they fuck about they they 

362
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:03,400
they struggled like fuck after 
it. 

363
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,680
They paid a lot of money for 
these assets, but they did get 

364
00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,120
their foot on them and they 
whether they'll reap benefits if

365
00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:13,160
the lithium does rebound in the 
future, we don't know yet. 

366
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,400
It's like might be a lot of 
short term pain for long term 

367
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,680
gain, but we just don't know. 
But it's survival during this 

368
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,240
short term, as you said, just to
be able to service debt that is 

369
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:24,920
the is the biggest risk. 
Big time. 

370
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:30,120
And I would argue that it's not 
appropriate to, to make those 

371
00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:34,160
sort of bets when you're, if 
you're, if it means you're 

372
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,800
adding like further unnecessary 
pressure to your balance sheet 

373
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:41,240
that could, you know, I just, I 
just think like, you know, could

374
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,880
a BHP do that? 
Because it's just a fuck, it's a

375
00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,080
rounding error. 
It's not going to actually move 

376
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,920
the needle to the equity. 
I just think it's a yeah, I 

377
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,920
think there's a a different kind
of mentality you need to have 

378
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,280
when you're forecasting. 
At the time they were 

379
00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:57,000
forecasting their, you know, 
peak net debt to kind of be this

380
00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:58,600
this half year we're in right 
now. 

381
00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:00,400
And you know, what have they 
done? 

382
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,240
They've just kind of amplified 
that made everything more 

383
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,360
fragile. 
And you know, because iron ore 

384
00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:07,960
prices have, have, have come 
down, then all all of a sudden 

385
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,560
everything looks pretty grim and
they can't couldn't sell what 

386
00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:12,520
they all that lithium stuff, 
what they paid for it. 

387
00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:18,600
I'd argue his mentality is 
possibly not saying he doesn't 

388
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,080
care about the debt, but he just
knows he can either get more 

389
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,440
debt or raise money or he'll do 
whatever it takes to get his 

390
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,400
hold on, get his foot on as much
things as possible for the long 

391
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:32,400
term plan for min rez. 
And it's yeah, I don't think he 

392
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,440
lies when he goes off about his 
view of what others are saying 

393
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:38,600
about his debt. 
I think he's like, I Will 

394
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:40,120
Survive. 
Although honestly, I think he 

395
00:19:40,120 --> 00:19:42,320
thinks that. 
Yeah, I think you're probably 

396
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:43,400
right. 
He probably does have a few. 

397
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:48,880
It's just, it's just not, it's 
not like it's not sound capital 

398
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:54,000
allocation, you know, it's like,
yeah, that that. 

399
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,000
Reminds me of Ford. 
It's Fortescue early 20 tens. 

400
00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:59,160
They're in sort of the same 
position. 

401
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,280
Like they'll fucking levelled up
way more than. 

402
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,880
This they were but but the 
difference is like Fortescue 

403
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,960
kind of built in a, in a in a 
down market and they reaped the 

404
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:13,960
rewards over time. 
You know, they, the, the, the 

405
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,360
Onslow expansion and, and the 
other thing too is like 

406
00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:20,840
Fortescue actually built rail, 
which like obviously produced at

407
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:22,800
a much lower cost than, you 
know, road. 

408
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,080
And, but they had, they had the 
commodity cycle on their side. 

409
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,760
They had, they expanded and, and
grew into the, the growth of 

410
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:35,320
China. 
And like these, these companies,

411
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:36,880
our industry timings, 
everything. 

412
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:38,240
You know, you can't get the 
cycle wrong. 

413
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,520
And if you get the cycle wrong 
with a, with a bunch of debt, 

414
00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:45,680
it's, it's a really challenging 
outlook for the equity like, 

415
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:51,360
which is interesting because you
hear this is one of the more 

416
00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:55,000
fascinating kind of snippets. 
I think this was, you know, 

417
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:56,920
Speaking of the difference 
between the, the debt and 

418
00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,360
equity. 
I think, you know, Chris had 

419
00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:01,960
something to say about the, the 
different mentality between his 

420
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:03,200
shareholders and his 
bondholders. 

421
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:07,080
Have a listen to this guys. 
The time I get to this time next

422
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,520
year, you'll go. 
You'll be like my bondholders in

423
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:11,760
the US. 
They go, what's the problem? 

424
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:15,280
What are these guys not getting?
And I go, you need to go talk to

425
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,360
them. 
I mean, when I go to the US and 

426
00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:20,600
go to the bondholders, we just 
sit around and talk about 

427
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,800
fishing and they go, we love the
business, it's amazing. 

428
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,160
Can we lend you some more money?
And all right now I've got a 

429
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,040
nervous bunch of money in 
Australia. 

430
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:31,080
Count me one of those nervous 
numbers. 

431
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:34,160
So good. 
What a legend. 

432
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:39,800
Talking about fishing. 
But that but that's where the 

433
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,600
the whole the Min Reds thing, 
the story and the belief and 

434
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,880
everything, it's because he's 
like he gets on there and says 

435
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:49,520
like that he's he's relatable. 
Like he's, he's, he's got such a

436
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,320
fucking brand behind him. 
I think that buys you time, but 

437
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,760
it, it doesn't help you run away
from an inability to service 

438
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:59,240
debt, you know, like it. 
You know, he's, he's, you looked

439
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,960
at the share price sort of like 
5 months ago and tremendously 

440
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:03,760
resilient. 
It did the face of kind of, you 

441
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:05,440
know, challenging kind of 
commodity markets. 

442
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,640
And I think a bit of that is 
just like this, this, this real 

443
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,440
vehement belief that kind of 
Chris will figure it all out. 

444
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:16,800
And I don't know, I just, I 
just, I sense, I sense a bit of 

445
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:20,600
a, a, a change in sentiment 
there as well, you know, broadly

446
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,960
in the market. 
What else you got from the call?

447
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:29,240
I I think it's worth just kind 
of pondering about about end 

448
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:33,200
game a little bit like like, how
do they, how do they navigate 

449
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,440
out of this situation? 
And like how do they deliver the

450
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,800
balance sheet further right? 
Because like, you know, so well 

451
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,440
and could to say in hindsight, 
but like, fuck it, 90 bucks a 

452
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:43,880
share. 
They should have raised equity 

453
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,360
and, you know, put the balance 
sheet question to bed and just, 

454
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,760
you know, wrote out the cycle 
kind of without the worry of the

455
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,160
debt. 
But you know, that didn't happen

456
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,360
And, and we're here, but what 
are their what are their 

457
00:22:54,360 --> 00:22:56,960
options, right? 
Because like, personally, I 

458
00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:01,600
don't think like status quo or 
hoping commodity prices sort of 

459
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:07,080
just rebound from here is like 
a, a, a corporately appropriate 

460
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,440
plan. 
AI think like, you know, we, we 

461
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,560
have to talk about the, the 
levers that they have to, to, 

462
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,400
you know, at that their disposal
to actually address the, the 

463
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,560
balance sheet issue. 
First one asset sell down. 

464
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:21,000
That's right. 
Like they sold down half of the 

465
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,480
whole Rd. 
Like what else could they could 

466
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,200
they do? 
And I want to play a bit of a, a

467
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,720
snippet here that kind of Chris 
had at the beginning of his arm 

468
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,040
of his of his of his chat today 
when we get a. 

469
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:36,880
Project like Onslow Iron or 
Mount Marion, we own the mining 

470
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,840
services on those projects. 
At any given time, if we choose 

471
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,720
to, we can go and sell our 
shareholding in the in the iron 

472
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,480
or the lithium. 
But those projects that we got 

473
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,560
for mining services are life and
mines. 

474
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,920
So Onslow Iron, it's probably 
around 50 years plus. 

475
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,080
So it's kind of. 
Like a sub point to what he was 

476
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,760
sort of saying, but to me it 
felt like he sort of slipped out

477
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,760
that there is this, you know, 
potential that they're looking 

478
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,800
at. 
Yeah, just retaining the mining 

479
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,200
services contract at at Mount 
Marion or Onslow. 

480
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,520
Never said anything. 
Like that before, I don't think,

481
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,800
I know he's always said he's got
a lot of levers to pull, but I 

482
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,680
don't think he's ever mentioned 
selling down parts of projects. 

483
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:15,480
Yeah, specifically. 
To my. 

484
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:16,560
Memory. 
Yeah, well. 

485
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,760
He has talked about the fact 
that their their mining services

486
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,320
contract's a life of mine and 
they stay even if they they 

487
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,520
don't withhold it. 
But that the wording that time 

488
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,040
just felt a bit more like, you 
know, a realistic labour that we

489
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,360
could pull is actually yeah, 
like, like like selling the so, 

490
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,840
so I just, if you just think 
about their portfolio of assets,

491
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,360
like what, what could they sell 
and what could they get for 

492
00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:41,200
them, right? 
Like you think Wodgina, that's 

493
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,440
their best asset, right? 
No, no, no, no denying. 

494
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,360
I think that like if who would 
buy that they'd be bidders? 

495
00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:50,880
Like I'm sure Pilgrim would 
would love to have it. 

496
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:55,600
And I mean, I mean, heck, 
Albemarle might even might even 

497
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:57,480
have to sell their stake as 
well, the way things are going 

498
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,440
for them. 
So 100% of it might be. 

499
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:00,960
Yeah, I'd be. 
I'd be. 

500
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,440
Interested to know if like if 
Wodgina is the best asset on a 

501
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,960
mining front. 
I'd like to know if if it is the

502
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,720
best asset asset on cash flow 
for them. 

503
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:14,200
Like the fact that with Mount 
Marion, just what they earn from

504
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,480
the mining services Afghan 
thing, even though it's a the 

505
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,080
mining, the mining and the 
product isn't as good. 

506
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,120
I'd be interested to know if 
that is sort of a better asset 

507
00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:24,400
for them. 
Yeah, well. 

508
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,200
Let's think of the the 
perspective of a buyer who's 

509
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,720
going to have to buy an asset 
with min as the mining 

510
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:31,400
contractor. 
So you're kind of left with 

511
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,080
whatever economic upside there 
is that min don't take for 

512
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:38,240
themselves as contractor. 
In that case, you know, wasn't 

513
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:39,760
it probably be the pick of the 
bunch? 

514
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,600
And I'm sure like wasn't it 
would be worth a fair bit in the

515
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:47,000
portfolio of Pilbara because 
they traded a pretty hefty kind 

516
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,720
of sum themselves for, for what?
For what their cash flow is. 

517
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,760
But yeah, so like that's a 
lever, but he didn't say Wodgina

518
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:54,920
on on the call. 
Then he mentioned Mount Marion 

519
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,440
and he mentioned Onslow. 
And if you think of Mount 

520
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,440
Marion, like, yeah, when you 
when you remove like I don't 

521
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,920
think Ganthang can buy anymore 
like this, you know, fair. 

522
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,480
But get in the way of that. 
Would you would you want to own 

523
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:12,360
half of Mount Marion? 
Like if, if, if Min was a mining

524
00:26:12,360 --> 00:26:14,680
services contractor? 
I don't know, just, you know, 

525
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,520
you might just be a bit worried 
about what's kind of left for 

526
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:22,960
you in that scenario. 
Onslow it's just the value of of

527
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,600
that if they were to sell down 
for that like what are they on 

528
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,960
is this kind? 
Of TV 70. 57. 57 yeah so ish. 

529
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,760
And it all hinges on the the 
performance of the whole Rd, 

530
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,240
which is, which is currently 
unproven. 

531
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,760
We need to wait for that. 
There's just kind of contingent 

532
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,520
value that is a little bit 
unproven until we see how the 

533
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,160
whole Rd holds up because some 
people are uncertain about that.

534
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,360
The gas like I don't I don't see
how they could kind of get more 

535
00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:51,080
than 500 million bucks for for, 
you know, from a partner for 50%

536
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,040
yeah, like 50% of the gas asset.
That could be wrong. 

537
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,360
But you know, I'd like to be 
wrong, but it's just my gut feel

538
00:26:57,360 --> 00:27:00,320
on that one. 
So other options maybe they 

539
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,000
could, they could, they could 
actually do a sell down of 

540
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,360
certain business units. 
Like I could see a world where 

541
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,120
they they, yeah, brought, 
brought in a, a shareholder who 

542
00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:14,760
bought, let's say a 20% interest
in just their mining services 

543
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:15,440
business, right? 
Yeah. 

544
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:20,680
And they've added and that. 
Would be pretty easy one to do 

545
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,560
like, like there'd be some 
competition for that because 

546
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,560
it's obviously it's a very 
proven business. 

547
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,160
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
And that's an interesting thing.

548
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,480
Maybe like, you know, someone 
mentioned to me that could spin 

549
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:31,680
out their mining services 
business. 

550
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:33,600
I think that's just a 
challenging thing to do, like in

551
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,440
a bit of a cash grab or whatever
along the way. 

552
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,360
But I just think that's too 
challenging because you leave 

553
00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:41,600
this strange miner with menace 
with a, you know, just, yeah, I 

554
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,160
just don't think the pro forma 
quite works out if you did that.

555
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,800
But you know, they could even 
like, let's say they bundled all

556
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:49,920
their lithium business unit 
together and again, did it 

557
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,640
didn't minor like maybe they 
could sell sell the entire 

558
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,560
business unit or they could 
simply just sell, you know, 49% 

559
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,320
of it. 
But they were, they were they 

560
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,320
keep the rest. 
You know, I think those are 

561
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,800
those eruptions and they might 
they might be explored in the 

562
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,360
kind of the asset sell down 
space. 

563
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,400
The glaring other one is, is 
raising equity. 

564
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,120
What most kind of, you know, 
companies do is they, they have 

565
00:28:12,120 --> 00:28:13,560
sort of balance, balance sheet 
stress. 

566
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,160
There's, there's a couple ways 
they could raise equity, right? 

567
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,600
One is typical capital raise. 
You see them all the time at a 

568
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,400
discount. 
I mean, they're in the 40s 

569
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:25,440
today. 
Like I don't know when they, 

570
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,440
when, when they pulled the 
trigger on that because, yeah, 

571
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,000
there's like a lot of to, to 
admit you've got to raise equity

572
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,520
is a, is a challenging thing to 
do. 

573
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,320
And especially if you've, if 
you've talked about not 

574
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,800
diluting. 
So I I just don't know if if 

575
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,320
they'd be as kind of sensible 
about the, the timing to do that

576
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:45,840
as as you might might see 
otherwise he'd he'd only. 

577
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,520
Have to if they raised a 
billion, he'd only have to tip 

578
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,880
in 100 himself to keep you 
prior. 

579
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:52,560
Rather, he's probably he's. 
Probably. 

580
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:58,440
Got 100 Yeah, I. 
Don't know, but the, the yeah, I

581
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,840
think he'd probably just get 
deluded to be fair, because I 

582
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,520
don't if he runs his business 
that levered, I don't know. 

583
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,680
Anyway, the, the, the other 
thing I think of though is 

584
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,800
instead of doing a raise at a 
discount and, and, and in stores

585
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,360
and all that sort of stuff is, 
you know, there's, there's a 

586
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,160
strategic kind of come come to 
the rescue a little bit. 

587
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:20,440
And maybe, yeah, maybe end up 
owning 20% of min res or 

588
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,760
something like that with a with 
a big cash injection. 

589
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,000
And I'm thinking of like like a 
Gena, something like that. 

590
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:28,800
You know, I wouldn't, I 
wouldn't, I wouldn't rule it 

591
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:29,920
out. 
I think you'd just never quite 

592
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,720
rule out Gena. 
Yeah, yeah. 

593
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:37,200
And and with that, a lot of the 
project sell downs and it's, 

594
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,640
it's just like this. 
It's all part of this long term 

595
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:40,840
plan. 
It's like it's all there, 

596
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,440
everything's there for a reason 
and it's like up to the position

597
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,280
now where they have to possibly 
alter the long term plan just to

598
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:52,080
pay service debt. 
But yeah, I, I just, I think 

599
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,400
one, you probably didn't mention
you'll, you'll just get more 

600
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:56,800
debt. 
I. 

601
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,480
I think the upper bound of that 
is pretty stretched. 

602
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:04,600
Like I, yeah, like, like it's a 
good point you make, but I just,

603
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,840
I like, you can't just leave her
up forever. 

604
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,400
You know, like the, the more 
debt you have to capital 

605
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,960
structure, the more fragility 
you add, especially if you don't

606
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,800
have the cash flows. 
I'm personally surprised that 

607
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,080
the, the bonds that they've got 
in the US aren't trading 

608
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,400
impaired yet. 
You know, like, like I'm, it'd 

609
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,080
be interesting to see when the 
US market opens, but they're 

610
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,360
still kind of trading like as if
they're going to be kind of, you

611
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,760
know, repaid entirely on the 
whole and everything like that. 

612
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,360
They're not, they're not trading
like they're impaired yet. 

613
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,320
So that that's one to watch, 
right? 

614
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:36,320
Because the moment that happens 
comes a increasingly challenging

615
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,920
to add add any more debt to 
capital structure and the 

616
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,120
incremental amount of more debt 
you add, you have to pay higher 

617
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,320
and higher interest rates on 
that and becomes increasingly 

618
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:48,080
challenging to ever generate a 
return sufficient to ever pay 

619
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:49,640
higher and higher interest rates
off. 

620
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:52,880
So because they're not. 
Like they're not like knocking 

621
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,240
out assets a lot, a lot of them 
like the the the onslide thing, 

622
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,040
the value lot, the Onslow on to 
be yeah, that's we'll hopefully 

623
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:01,760
make cash once the price goes 
up. 

624
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:06,000
But it's if that area that 
district expands and they click 

625
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,920
the ticket on every person using
that haul ride, whether they can

626
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,400
get enough, there's enough time 
to get the trucks on there 

627
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,000
because it's going to be that 
flat out anyway there. 

628
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,200
There's so much value in that 
for them in the future. 

629
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,640
So it's, yeah, I think it's 
obviously under underappreciated

630
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,200
how bloody valuable that 
services division is. 

631
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,200
And they're little 
infrastructure jobbies. 

632
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,480
I think that strategic. 
Equity investment at the Headco 

633
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:39,200
makes a lot of sense and I think
most would probably say from a 

634
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:44,000
shareholder perspective might 
find that more palatable than 

635
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,680
sort of divesting or selling 
down assets and it'd have to be 

636
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,000
a placement. 
Yeah, like it's a so it's a 

637
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,880
placement to a new cornerstone. 
Yeah, Yeah. 

638
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,520
I don't know if the interest. 
Is there to be honest, like, but

639
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,360
you know, it's, it's, it's an 
option for sure. 

640
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:01,440
I doubt he'd want to lose 
control. 

641
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,800
Or have that, have that in that 
influence. 

642
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,120
Yeah, that'd be a big one. 
Totally it. 

643
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,360
I mean, there's. 
None of these options are good 

644
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,760
options, right? 
There's nothing you're like, oh,

645
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,640
this is great, but you know, 
it's it's a predicament that 

646
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,640
they're in because of pro 
cyclical investment, not counter

647
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,400
cyclical investment. 
And that to me is like corporate

648
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,480
finance one O 1 in cyclical 
businesses. 

649
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,280
Yeah, that was summed up really 
well. 

650
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,640
By Glenn Lawcock the question he
sort of asked and I think the 

651
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,200
the response from Chris was kind
of telling how he. 

652
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:37,920
You know he sort of without. 
Saying it, he kind of 

653
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,960
acknowledged that they'd 
missteps perhaps in in the past 

654
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:45,120
year or so and they've found 
themselves in or, you know, in 

655
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,480
between a rock and a very hard 
place and that that 

656
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,320
acknowledgement. 
Was important, you know, like I 

657
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,920
think it was the first call that
I've listened to where the tone 

658
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:58,280
had changed to, you know, there 
was a recognition that austerity

659
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,000
is required now. 
Whereas beforehand, every kind 

660
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,440
of call where Chris has been a 
part of it's been we're going to

661
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:04,440
do this, we're going to grow 
this. 

662
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,240
We're we're adding this, we're 
adding this where, you know, 

663
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:11,120
everything was kind of, you 
know, we're going as fast and 

664
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,560
hard as we can. 
And I think this time was the 

665
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,280
first call where it was there 
was an ounce of introspection 

666
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:21,200
and acknowledgement that like, 
like you just need to trim all 

667
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,280
costs and see things through 
right now. 

668
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,800
Not yeah, strangle costs. 
Yeah, wonder if he'll. 

669
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,240
Not that you get much money for 
him now, but he might like 

670
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:35,280
whether he'll start unwinding 
somehow those all those minority

671
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,200
stakes in the lithium companies,
yeah. 

672
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,400
I mean, and that's you're not 
going to get those forum. 

673
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,120
But like. 
Might have to. 

674
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:45,720
And the optics is a. 
Challenge as well, sort of 

675
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,000
having only, you know, invested 
in them a year ago and then 

676
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,520
having to unwind them so quickly
without sort of realising the 

677
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,200
probably the full potential that
they they wanted all those 

678
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,560
assets and companies if you 
bought the optics of an equity. 

679
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:00,840
Race is way worse though. 
Yeah, well I get them and get 

680
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:02,800
the cash, but yeah, heck can you
find a buyer? 

681
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:04,760
You know, it's not like you can 
just sell these things on market

682
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:06,760
considering you bought Delta. 
At $0.90. 

683
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,600
Kelly Metals at 70 like you 
know, what do you so you could 

684
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:16,080
you could group those stakes and
all of your your ownership in 

685
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,639
your lithium assets kind of 
together and call it, you know, 

686
00:34:18,679 --> 00:34:22,199
your min res lithium business 
and do a do a 49% sell down of 

687
00:34:22,199 --> 00:34:23,239
that. 
So someone could have an 

688
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:27,320
indirect 49% interest in those 
shares potentially, but yeah. 

689
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,400
Yeah, we're white non lithium. 
We're white non lithium. 

690
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,840
That's that's the I think got a.
Kicker. 

691
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:35,679
You're right. 
What do you reckon? 

692
00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:39,719
'S more sensitive lithium price 
or on oil price to them, so I 

693
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,080
think. 
Iron ore just, it's just like a 

694
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,960
volumes thing. 
I think the, the, the biggest 

695
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,360
sensitivity then price is a big 
deal. 

696
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,880
Like your final goes to 150 and 
stays there for the next three 

697
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:53,480
years. 
Like things will be OK, right. 

698
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,640
But but the biggest sensitivity 
is actually just, it's just 

699
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,160
going to be that the time 
dependency of, of Onslow, like 

700
00:35:01,720 --> 00:35:05,400
we've had a recalibration now 
of, of tonnes and and meanwhile 

701
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,400
they've already the pre selling 
future production at the same 

702
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,280
time. 
So think things in the next sort

703
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,920
of 18 months, especially sort 
of, you know, 2-2 year, three 

704
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,480
year period. 
That's that's kind of that's 

705
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,040
kind of peak, peak risk in my 
opinion. 

706
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,600
Because, because if, if if 
anything goes wrong at Onslow, 

707
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,920
like it just yeah, leverage 
amplifies the upside and the 

708
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,960
downside in in ways that, you 
know, can be wonderful and and 

709
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:30,400
horrible. 
But as he said in the. 

710
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:34,440
Paper It's a shitty time to be 
an MD, shitty time to be in 

711
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,080
business. 
And like. 

712
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,120
Especially what they've done to,
you know, I don't know, the 

713
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,360
whole rise's not finished yet, 
but all that trend, the trend 

714
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,080
shipping stuff and like getting 
that online, that's pretty 

715
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,720
bloody impressive. 
But just to come out the back 

716
00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:49,840
end with, yeah, prices dropping,
it's hard work. 

717
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:50,680
It's freaking. 
Hard. 

718
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,200
Work. 
Fuck, of that I think stories A.

719
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,760
Lot a long way from finished and
I'm very interested to see how 

720
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:01,240
the next yeah little period goes
because I, I think this could be

721
00:36:01,240 --> 00:36:04,200
the corporate story of our 
generation, you know, like yeah,

722
00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:06,960
I, I, I, I know I say that sure,
I sure hope it isn't. 

723
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:08,200
Yeah, like it? 
No it. 

724
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:09,360
Could be. 
It could be either way. 

725
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,040
It could be the corporate story 
of our generation. 

726
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:12,320
Either way. 
You know, like, people have had 

727
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,240
very similar, like, sentiment 
about Fortescue, like you said, 

728
00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:16,280
Maddie. 
And they come out the other 

729
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,640
side, you know, could, but it's,
you know, time before that it 

730
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,400
was Sons of Gwalia, you know, 
like this is the story of our 

731
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,480
generation, in my opinion. 
And I'm just I'm hooked. 

732
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:26,680
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

733
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,280
All bloody rooting for them 
because all the bloody people 

734
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:34,440
that work there, yeah, just want
to see you just just fuck it. 

735
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,320
Just want everything up, 
everything. 

736
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:37,480
As if I miss. 
Billionaire. 

737
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,040
Said alright. 
Good work Trav. 

738
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,400
Sensational dissection there 
mate. 

739
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:49,640
S 32 JD Yeah bloody we'll be a. 
Bit lighter on here but I mean S

740
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,560
32 are not. 
Going to be the corporate story 

741
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,880
of this generation, Gara tell 
you that. 

742
00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:01,120
Maybe well, the crux of today's 
announcement is that you know, 

743
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,400
you can see it in the share 
price versus the share price of 

744
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,960
in res S 32 was kind of flat, 
marginally up. 

745
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:12,360
It wasn't a massive change on 
expectations, no massive misses 

746
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,600
or anything like that. 
I still think it's it's 

747
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,640
interesting to see the decision 
making for this this kind of 

748
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,600
company, what they've done in 
selling Illawarra and how that 

749
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,440
kind of plays out over time. 
I mean, essentially all the 

750
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,040
money they're getting upfront 
for selling Illawarra like US 

751
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:32,160
roughly a billion has been sunk 
in the past year and through 

752
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:37,160
FY25 into MOSA. 
So that is just kind of 

753
00:37:37,240 --> 00:37:40,720
astounding to to think about the
the kind of bit they're they're 

754
00:37:40,720 --> 00:37:44,600
putting on on that one. 
Obviously it's not quite a, an 

755
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,600
Allison or Minres scale of bit, 
but it's, it's a big decision. 

756
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,480
So, yeah, I mean, let's get into
the the numbers today and sort 

757
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,760
of see where this business is, 
is kind of that they did 

758
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,320
revenue. 
This is taking, you know, 

759
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,280
underlying numbers here. 
So taking into account the 

760
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,360
period that in which they owned 
Illawarra because the sale 

761
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:08,120
completed today, but 8.3 billion
in revenue, underlying EBITDA, 

762
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:12,680
1.8 billion and underlying EBIT 
of $890 million. 

763
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,040
Now Illawarra made up 50% of 
that that. 

764
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,000
So that's that's pretty 
fascinating and it wasn't 

765
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,360
without its problems. 
It needed a heap of capital to 

766
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,160
be sunk into it, you know, last 
year and in the foreseeable 

767
00:38:25,240 --> 00:38:29,520
future, you know, so we've sort 
of spoken from a stance of, you 

768
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,920
know, a positive outlook on the 
commodity met coal. 

769
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,840
But Illawarra wasn't, you know, 
without faults. 

770
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,440
It it needed a lot of capital 
would be sunk into it. 

771
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,360
There was a long one move that 
was done in the past year, but 

772
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,240
its contributions. 
Were sort of like heavier in 

773
00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:49,360
that year kind of as a result of
the aluminium aluminium market 

774
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,640
kind of being pretty soft right 
exactly so if. 

775
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:55,040
You're, if you want to take a 
snapshot in time from FY24, 

776
00:38:55,240 --> 00:38:57,800
ignoring Illawarra to get a feel
for what the business is looking

777
00:38:57,800 --> 00:38:59,720
like. 
We're talking about, you know, 

778
00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:03,400
top line revenues, 60% coming 
from alumina slash aluminium, 

779
00:39:03,720 --> 00:39:08,200
10% copper, 10% zinc, 10% 
nickel, 10% manganese. 

780
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,360
They're all rough numbers, just 
to kind of simplify how to think

781
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:15,000
about South 32 and weird that 
it's not. 

782
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,880
Silver anymore, you know, 
Cannington used to be the 

783
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:19,480
highest grade silver mine in the
world. 

784
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:22,800
Obviously doesn't contribute 
much now. 

785
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,960
Yeah, I mean, I think. 
Zinc. 

786
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,960
Zinc is you know that attribute 
is. 

787
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:31,400
Why is that zinc? 
Like a zinc equivalent? 

788
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,280
Yeah, so in hang. 
On. 

789
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:39,680
I think they produce a lot of 
silver at that KGHM, the the 

790
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,760
Polish line that they've got as 
well. 

791
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,320
There's a lot of silver there. 
How's the how's the balance 

792
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,360
sheet right mate? 
It's looking a whole lot better.

793
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,600
Than than min res is, but you've
got to kind of take it with a 

794
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,280
huge pinch of salt given that 
they've sold Illawarra and 

795
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:52,600
they're getting all the cash in 
the door. 

796
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:58,320
So they announced a dividend US 
140 million in divvies as well 

797
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:02,440
as AUS $200 million buyback. 
So obviously having the. 

798
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,880
The sale of the asset changes 
their balance sheet massively. 

799
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:10,640
They were June 30th before the 
asset sale had gone through in a

800
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:12,960
net debt position to the tune of
760 million. 

801
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:17,400
But that is on a sort of pro 
forma basis roughly US 100 

802
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,600
million in net debt taking into 
account the cash as well as the 

803
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,440
dividend and the buyback. 
So the business is in, you know,

804
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,320
great health if you if you kind 
of call it that. 

805
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,960
But they've foregone a lot of 
future earnings. 

806
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,800
And, you know, you can kind of 
look at that with the context of

807
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,600
Min Reyes, who we've just spoken
about, and imagine what things 

808
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,360
could kind of look like if if 
they had, or maybe if they do 

809
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:44,120
have to sell an asset and they 
can get a decent price for it. 

810
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:46,920
You know, yeah, things will all 
of a sudden look a whole lot 

811
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:48,520
better. 
But you've sold a a decent 

812
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,160
amount of what your future 
earnings are. 

813
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,600
So the next thing I was pretty 
keen to zoom in on was 

814
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,640
Australian manganese, given 
everything that's kind of gone 

815
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:02,040
on there in the past six months 
or so, and that that had some 

816
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,640
pretty positive announcements. 
So they got some insurance money

817
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:06,720
coming in. 
Oh, does that come in? 

818
00:41:06,720 --> 00:41:08,600
Pretty quick. 
That has come in very. 

819
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,280
Quick quicker than 29 metals. 
Must have been ACRA Jobby has 

820
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:13,960
has to. 
Must have been if it's that 

821
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:15,080
quick. 
I don't. 

822
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,720
Yeah, well, I don't know who 
else actually helps out with 

823
00:41:17,720 --> 00:41:19,400
mining insurance these days, 
mate. 

824
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,600
I was. 
I was a standard A. $125 million

825
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,560
just like that. 
Yeah, that's Dave. 

826
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,080
That's got Dave Harrison's name 
written all over it. 

827
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:26,840
So do you. 
Yeah. 

828
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:28,400
If there, if there's other 
people doing insurance, they're 

829
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,360
probably not getting me. 
He calls today or is CRE is the 

830
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:35,560
phone is off the hook, mate. 
Morning insurance only done by 

831
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:38,160
one company these days. 
Yeah, Yeah. 

832
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,440
Good job on that CRE. 
I'll assume it was you. 

833
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:45,400
Well said so. 
They, you know, there's two 

834
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,560
parts to it actually. 
There's the CapEx, 125 million 

835
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,240
is the CapEx, they're 60% that 
they have to sink in. 

836
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:54,720
And then yet you know you're 
still working on getting the 

837
00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:56,960
cash back for the the lost 
revenue. 

838
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,640
Again, this is held within 
Chemco, which they own 60% of, 

839
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:02,920
but essentially that's going to 
be spent over the next few 

840
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,800
quarters. 
And, you know, they just submit 

841
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:09,280
the thing and CRE pays him out. 
So pretty, pretty easy down 

842
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,520
there. 
But you know, of, of note, 

843
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,360
there's the, the Wharf that 
needs to be fixed. 

844
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,520
We've seen the, the photos and 
everything at the time, but they

845
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,160
actually stressed themselves 
that it's not just the Wharf 

846
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,080
that needs to be fixed. 
You've got bridges on, on Groot 

847
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,600
Island there that need to be 
fixed as well as dewatering. 

848
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,360
And they were, you know, showing
off a few photos that that's not

849
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,800
a, you know, a super simple 
task. 

850
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:34,280
There's a a lot of water. 
They spoke about the number was 

851
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,720
36 gigaliters. 
Interesting to put that into 

852
00:42:37,720 --> 00:42:40,440
context. 
They say they get 10 gigaliters 

853
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,680
annually on average. 
So it is a place again like 

854
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,200
we're saying with minres that 
gets a lot of downfall. 

855
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:50,000
It gets, you know, cyclones 
coming through every year and 

856
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,720
you know, that's, that's just 
part and parcel of operating in,

857
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:57,200
in that part of the world. 
So in terms of guidance and 

858
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:00,760
getting this one back online, 
they got it to 1,000,000 wet 

859
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:06,920
metric tonnes which is under 30%
or roughly 30% of what your pre 

860
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:11,080
cyclone operating levels were 
and that's FY25. 

861
00:43:11,720 --> 00:43:16,080
They reiterated that it'd come 
online in Q3 of this financial 

862
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:19,080
year. 
And interestingly, they will 

863
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,560
pose the question, given 
everything going on at, at Anglo

864
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,400
and the trouble that they're 
kind of in, which became to kind

865
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:31,880
of scoop up their 40% of Gemco. 
And yeah, the, the answer was, 

866
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,080
yeah, we'd we'd have a look, 
we'd be interested. 

867
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:35,760
So nothing's happened on that 
front. 

868
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:39,440
And they, you know, being a 
being the kind of organisation 

869
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:43,120
they are, they were very, you 
know, they spoke very positively

870
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,680
of Anglo, said they'd been great
partners, yada, yada, yada. 

871
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:48,600
But I think they would be 
interested in, you know, talking

872
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,480
about kind of forced sellers. 
Anglo's another one that kind of

873
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:53,840
falls in that basket, I'd love 
to say on an earnings. 

874
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:58,640
Call where they say they've got 
a shit partner, Is that ever 

875
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:00,480
been? 
Said Chris Ellison. 

876
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:05,200
He said it about. 
Albemarle, you know it, he he 

877
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,200
said kind of, you know, that 
they're not a complete shit 

878
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,880
partner, but this was a, a 
specific example where he was 

879
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:14,840
pissed off and he, you know, he 
said it on the the earning 

880
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:16,360
school and he said, oh, the one 
today talking. 

881
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:18,760
About how they turned, stopped, 
turned off a trial. 

882
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,640
I was back back in. 
Yeah, last cycle, kind of. 

883
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:23,120
Yeah, that's what I said. 
I didn't agree. 

884
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:24,200
With that. 
But he said don't put that in 

885
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:25,640
the. 
Papers so we, you know, just 

886
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:27,400
this didn't it didn't happen. 
It didn't happen. 

887
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:30,560
This was one from. 
Yeah, he was talking about the 

888
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,400
same issue, but when he'd spoken
about it at the time maybe 3/4 

889
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:37,800
ago, if I take, he was a bit 
more worked up about about 

890
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:41,200
things and about their kind of 
execution capability I guess. 

891
00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:44,160
And how's how's Worsley? 
Going JD, that's a really 

892
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:45,440
interesting. 
One, and there were a lot of 

893
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,080
questions on this. 
This was one of the big 

894
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:49,960
takeaways we had coming out of 
Diggers, just how hard getting 

895
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,480
things permitted is in this day 
and age in Australia. 

896
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:57,320
And you know, this is, this is 
WA with a lot of people kind of 

897
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:01,480
throwing stones at NSW and, and 
Victoria, but this is very much 

898
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,440
in our backyard here. 
And he had a few interesting 

899
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:09,120
things to say to, to kind of sum
it up, the, the take away, my 

900
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:13,120
kind of gut feel was that they, 
they get a positive outcome to, 

901
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:14,880
to give people a bit of a 
reminder. 

902
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:19,240
There were a lot of conditions 
put on the approval that they 

903
00:45:19,240 --> 00:45:23,000
got given, and essentially they 
said that they're shackled by 

904
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:26,520
those conditions and they just 
can't operate effectively with 

905
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,720
them. 
So yeah, he he was alarmed about

906
00:45:30,720 --> 00:45:33,520
a lot of things that were kind 
of pointed out, but things are 

907
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,600
being kind of worked out. 
They spoke about getting a 

908
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,720
result in early November and, 
you know, they were very 

909
00:45:39,720 --> 00:45:42,600
explicit in saying that we need 
a timeline by the end of this 

910
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:44,480
calendar year to to make a 
decision. 

911
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,360
So it does sound like things are
progressing on that front. 

912
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,560
Why I kind of say my inclination
was that there would be 

913
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,840
something positive that comes 
out about it is you put it in 

914
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:57,360
the context of everything that's
happened in WA about the lithium

915
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:01,280
industry, the nickel industry. 
You know, Yogan, a lot of jobs 

916
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:06,240
are being rolled off and there's
an election in WA next year. 

917
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:10,360
You know, job losses aren't good
for political, you know, the 

918
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:14,520
incumbent political party. 
And I think with a sort of 

919
00:46:14,720 --> 00:46:16,560
veiled threat of we don't want 
to lay off. 

920
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:21,480
I think 1800 people was was the 
number that they can come to an 

921
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:24,360
agreement. 
And yeah, there's a few phases 

922
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:25,800
to this. 
There's, there's always a nuance

923
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,360
with these things, but hopefully
things get get worked out in a 

924
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:34,560
sort of appropriate 
environmental front as well as a

925
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:37,160
appropriate kind of business 
front and they can kind of find 

926
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:39,640
common ground that that works 
for everyone. 

927
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,680
And that's S 30. 
Two, good on your JD. 

928
00:46:44,240 --> 00:46:45,640
The election. 
Remember, we're a liberal 

929
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,400
podcast, JC. 
Now you're working, you've got 

930
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:49,960
to like Liberal, but we're an 
apolitical. 

931
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,960
Podcast. 
Ally JC. 

932
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:55,480
You're back. 
Oh, all the. 

933
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:57,920
Bloody YouTube. 
Fans will be very happy. 

934
00:46:57,960 --> 00:46:59,840
Oh, very. 
Where's GC? 

935
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:02,640
Where is GC? 
Oh, she's back. 

936
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:07,400
So no, I'll just finish off the 
day with a couple of the the 

937
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:12,320
Goldie's annual annual results. 
So starting with West Gold. 

938
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:18,400
So FY24 is yeah, bit of a what's
been described by some as a 

939
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,560
watershed year for them. 
Big transformation from 

940
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:23,480
probably, you know, one to two 
years ago. 

941
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:29,680
Everything up financially, 
notably free cash of 86 mil 

942
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:34,280
versus you know only based 
basically break even last year 

943
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:38,240
they achieved the revised 
production and cost guidance 

944
00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:44,320
sort of producing 227,000 odd oz
at just shy of 2200 an ounce 

945
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:48,640
Aussie and they're now 
completely unhedged and and debt

946
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,720
free. 
Interestingly, they had a slide 

947
00:47:51,720 --> 00:47:57,720
on the fact that total all in 
sustaining costs had reduced 

948
00:47:57,720 --> 00:48:01,520
year on year. 
But actually on and per oz basis

949
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:06,640
those costs are higher, about 
almost $200.00 an ounce higher, 

950
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:11,600
larger because due to lower 
production with mining suspended

951
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:16,200
at Paddy's flat and they're 
paying out a 2.25 cents per 

952
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:18,040
share dividend which was 
previously flagged. 

953
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:23,080
I think the interesting one to 
look at which was raised on the 

954
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:27,360
earnings call today is, is the 
cash build and the net credited 

955
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:30,440
position. 
So cash and bullion went up from

956
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:37,240
192 million in FY23 to $263 
million this year, so up about 

957
00:48:37,240 --> 00:48:40,800
37%. 
Interestingly, net creditors 

958
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:45,120
doubled from 72 million to $141 
million. 

959
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,000
So the increase in the cash is 
almost equivalent to the 

960
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:52,800
increase in the net creditors. 
Now note this is 3 merging with 

961
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:56,920
Corolla, so this doesn't. 
Include what Corolla's payables 

962
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,480
will be as well. 
Because that transaction 

963
00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:02,600
completed after the the year 
end, Yeah. 

964
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,600
And look, admittedly they had 
quite a big growth CapEx year. 

965
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:12,080
They spent $157 million so that 
you know, sort of cheques out 

966
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,520
with the higher sort of little 
level of net creditors to to 

967
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:17,840
some extent. 
Here's here's what they said on 

968
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:22,040
the call. 
And he is asking a question 

969
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:26,520
about trade payables. 
He's noticed an increase from 78

970
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:30,280
to 148 million. 
Tommy, would you like to comment

971
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:33,400
at all on trade payables and, 
and the reason for the increase?

972
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:34,800
Absolutely. 
Thanks. 

973
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:37,680
Shane and thanks, Mark for the 
question. 

974
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:43,520
Essentially as you see in FY24, 
it has been a heavy investment 

975
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:47,320
year on our growth projects in 
Great Fingal Fender and the Big 

976
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:50,760
Bell long haul open slope. 
Naturally, the creditors and 

977
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:54,000
payments will increase as a 
result of that investment. 

978
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:58,080
So as. 
We said, you know, totally fair 

979
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:00,880
comment on the growth CapEx. 
It's, it was much higher than 

980
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,560
our previous years. 
But surely higher CapEx would 

981
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:07,560
just mean your cash build 
wouldn't be say as much or 

982
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:11,600
perhaps neutral during this 
period however, and the whole 

983
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:15,640
cash build thing's been quite a 
big selling point for West Gold 

984
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:18,320
the last few quarters. 
They're really, really 

985
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:22,080
emphasised on the call and sort 
of previous presentations that 

986
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:26,800
that built, built net cash every
quarter for the last six 

987
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:28,680
quarters and the assumption in 
the market. 

988
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:31,440
'S been and that's driven by 
operational efficiencies and and

989
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:34,440
high margin on your high gold 
price and all that sort of 

990
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:36,640
stuff. 
But if it's if, if one of the 

991
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:39,640
drivers is actually just, you 
know, delaying payment if you 

992
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:42,920
have your creditors and that's, 
that's not as admirable. 

993
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:44,240
Yeah. 
So I think. 

994
00:50:44,240 --> 00:50:47,520
One of the main reasons you 
know, for this reported, you 

995
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:50,840
know, net cash field for you 
know, the last half a dozen 

996
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:54,960
quarters, you know, a, a 
potential main driver of that is

997
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:58,320
actually because the payment of 
the trade payables is being 

998
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:01,040
stretched out. 
Now why would you know, you 

999
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:05,760
might want to do that? 
They have to pay or if they 

1000
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,960
have, they probably already paid
it actually the cash component 

1001
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:14,040
of the KORA transaction. 
So that's like $125 million. 

1002
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,920
They've got the dividend that 
they've just, or they've 

1003
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:20,760
previously flagged that's worth 
around 20 million bucks and 

1004
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:22,760
they've obviously still got to 
run the business as well. 

1005
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:28,680
So I'm thinking perhaps they may
have sort of gone about it that 

1006
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:31,840
way to make sure they've got 
enough cash to sort of tickle 

1007
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:36,200
those things off without having 
to draw on their corporate, you 

1008
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:38,920
know, revolver facility. 
So it'll be interesting to say 

1009
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:42,160
how this sort of washes through 
the next periods financials with

1010
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:47,120
which would now incorporate, you
know, Korora, perhaps it's just 

1011
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:51,240
a blip in time. 
And it'll be interesting to say 

1012
00:51:51,240 --> 00:51:54,760
whether they sort of can ride 
through, especially with, you 

1013
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:56,680
know, rising gold prices and 
things like that. 

1014
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:01,520
And that will tie them over. 
But just an interesting one 

1015
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:02,720
there. 
I thought. 

1016
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:05,160
You think God with? 
God, with where it's at at the 

1017
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:08,400
moment and then being unhedged 
there, you couldn't ask for a 

1018
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,720
better set up in terms of, oh, 
absolutely got the. 

1019
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:12,800
Opposite of Min Rez. 
Yeah, no, they've got. 

1020
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:17,960
The the, the balance sheet there
is as far as the hedge, no 

1021
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:21,760
hedging and no debt certainly 
helps a lot on that front and 

1022
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:24,920
the drill, drill hits. 
Coming out of Fletcher looked 

1023
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:26,800
pretty, pretty promising as 
well. 

1024
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:30,320
So if they can get that up and 
gown, you know, hopefully 

1025
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:32,560
compliment the other ones when 
great fingers gown. 

1026
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:34,440
That's yeah, you can say the 
path they're on. 

1027
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:36,000
But yeah, exactly. 
Yeah. 

1028
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:40,440
And as far as FY25 guidance 
goes, we haven't seen anything 

1029
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:43,000
just yet. 
They did comment on the call 

1030
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:46,840
that they're updating all their 
sort of reserves and resources 

1031
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:50,880
sort of corporate Carora and you
know, just general updates in 

1032
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:54,920
early September, which is 
literally a week away, which 

1033
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:58,920
will be should shortly followed 
by the FY25 guidance. 

1034
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:02,160
But I mean, we've all seen in 
the presentations, you know, 

1035
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:05,200
they talk about themselves now 
as a, you know, plus 400,000 oz 

1036
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:07,640
producer. 
But as far as what that means in

1037
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:11,560
a sort of exact terms and costs,
that'll be interesting. 

1038
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:14,840
The other interesting thing will
be to see at their maker 

1039
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:18,720
operations net because of the 
absence of Paddy's flat, how 

1040
00:53:18,720 --> 00:53:22,280
that's sort of offset with more 
ore from Blue Bed S Junction, 

1041
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:25,080
which they just sort of put out 
a reserve and everything for 

1042
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:28,400
those sort of talked about 
having, you know, targeting at 

1043
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:31,480
least 1.2 million tonnes per 
annum by the end of this year 

1044
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:34,960
from there, you know, sort of 
displacing ore that they were 

1045
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:38,920
previously getting from Q. 
So they should definitely save 

1046
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:42,000
on some costs there. 
And then the other thing as 

1047
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:45,760
well, they'll be should be 
fitting in some ore from ore 

1048
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:48,640
Gold's nearby Crown Prince, 
which they're currently 

1049
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:53,200
negotiating an OPA for, which is
pretty high grade open pit dirt.

1050
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:55,400
And I'm a Ding Ding on that 10 
that's in the allergy. 

1051
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:56,160
So. 
Small cap. 

1052
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:59,440
That's small cap, yeah. 
That's small cap OTF. 

1053
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:02,960
And. 
So between those extra all 

1054
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:07,280
sources in and around Maker that
will allow them to expand the 

1055
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:11,000
capacity of Bluebird from what's
currently 1.6 million times 

1056
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:15,520
round up to 2.2 without sort of 
spending too much money at all. 

1057
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:20,240
And that's larger because it's 
just easier with softer open pit

1058
00:54:20,240 --> 00:54:24,120
or. 
And he, Wayne and the team also 

1059
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:28,080
sort of talked about increasing 
the utilisation of the Corolla 

1060
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:31,960
mills and upgrades in hybrid 
power Higginsville to reduce 

1061
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:34,880
operating costs as well. 
So definitely a few different 

1062
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:40,040
leaves there they can pull from 
sort of a all source and sort of

1063
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:42,880
cost basis as well. 
Yeah, I love these annual. 

1064
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:44,320
Reports because they're so 
bloody long. 

1065
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:48,840
So I like a good control F and 
the term I was looking for in 

1066
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:51,760
the West Gold one which none of 
these come up or couldn't have 

1067
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:54,360
believed it. 
Smack, variable speed, secondary

1068
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:57,040
ventilation or VSDS weren't in 
the annual report. 

1069
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,480
Couldn't bloody believe the 
electrical partner of West Gold 

1070
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:04,960
saving them millions, millions, 
bloody millions staying in the 

1071
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,760
door from the bloody power 
savings from the VSDS. 

1072
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:09,160
They didn't shout them out. 
Isn't it? 

1073
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:12,440
I remember. 
When, when we visited Marty Law 

1074
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:16,640
at, you know, at his, you know, 
marvellous buddy, great, great 

1075
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:18,040
warehouse. 
He's got everything going on. 

1076
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:22,480
He said to me, I am certain that
these will be adopted in the 

1077
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:24,520
industry over time. 
It's just a matter of time. 

1078
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:28,320
And like, you know, the, the, 
the reputation that the, the 

1079
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:31,120
1000 Volt ones have, you know, 
he's like, he's got a solution 

1080
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:33,360
to overcome that. 
So it's kind of like you just, 

1081
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:36,680
you've got to try it out. 
I think it's kind of like if you

1082
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:39,120
if you know what I think it is. 
It's like, I don't think it is. 

1083
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:41,240
Just put it on. 
They've just done this. 

1084
00:55:41,240 --> 00:55:44,040
Merger with Corolla, right? 
They've got these new assets 

1085
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:47,040
that don't have the VSDS in them
yet and they want first dibs. 

1086
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:49,320
They want it. 
They want to fill out all, you 

1087
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:51,640
know, Beta hunt and the like 
down there 1st and that's why 

1088
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:53,560
they don't want to call them out
because they know everyone else 

1089
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:55,360
in WA will be on to it just like
that. 

1090
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:57,240
Oh no. 
The como factor. 

1091
00:55:57,240 --> 00:55:59,720
Well, you do have to pay for. 
Them upfront but the amount of 

1092
00:55:59,720 --> 00:56:02,760
cost savings like SMEC are 
effectively giving you money 

1093
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:05,600
they might even. 
They might even give you a buddy

1094
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:09,000
an upfront and they can actually
they could do a financing model 

1095
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:12,000
where they just give it to you 
and then with the cost savings 

1096
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:15,240
get repaid over time maybe. 
That's a wonder if Marty will do

1097
00:56:15,240 --> 00:56:18,760
that. 
You don't know if you don't ask.

1098
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:23,720
You don't know if you don't ask.
Red 5 Bloody vault. 

1099
00:56:23,720 --> 00:56:26,080
Sorry. 
Yes, good old vault. 

1100
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:31,600
Bloody vault with AV but he off 
12% today. 

1101
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:33,680
Yeah, scraping duck. 
Shit, so we'll. 

1102
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:36,480
Probably get into. 
The reasoning for that to say a 

1103
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:38,240
lot of things. 
Are fucking off today, but this 

1104
00:56:38,240 --> 00:56:40,160
is an awful lot particularly 
off. 

1105
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:42,640
Yeah, so. 
So what were the highlights? 

1106
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:46,360
From the financial year gone to 
to start with Ellie so their 

1107
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:48,960
underlying. 
EBITDA was just shy of 200 

1108
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:52,800
million bucks and underlying 
profit of around 50 million 

1109
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,160
bucks. 
Production costs were pretty in 

1110
00:56:55,160 --> 00:57:00,240
line with guidance, so 223,000 
oz at around just over 2000 

1111
00:57:00,240 --> 00:57:03,640
bucks now all sustaining which 
was already previously flagged. 

1112
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:09,280
The net creditors were up a fair
bid, but but essentially that 

1113
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,760
reflects the business basically 
doubling with the the 

1114
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:14,760
Silverlight merger complaining 
in June. 

1115
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:20,320
They closed the year with cash 
and bullying of around 450 

1116
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:24,400
million bucks. 
But post year end they paid off 

1117
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:28,840
all the remaining debt from the,
you know, the Red 5 original 

1118
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:32,520
days. 
And also they received proceeds 

1119
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:36,800
from the block trade they did of
their own shares, which, you 

1120
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:41,360
know, silver like acquired, you 
know, the strategic stake in Red

1121
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:44,200
when prior to that merger. 
So by the time you sort of 

1122
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:47,080
figure that all out, they 
basically have just shot $500 

1123
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:49,760
million cash and bullying and no
debt. 

1124
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:54,040
Something I thought was appears 
small, but I thought it was just

1125
00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:58,720
interesting of more so the 
location of this statement, a 

1126
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:01,560
statement of basically what 
their tax losses were on the 

1127
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:04,320
front page and one of the key 
highlight, you know, bullet 

1128
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:06,080
points. 
So they've said they've got 

1129
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:10,920
Aussie tax losses of 381,000,000
and Canadian tax losses of 

1130
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:14,680
Canadian 255,000,000. 
I mean the Aussie ones will 

1131
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:17,880
certainly come in pretty handy 
as they go into sort of cash 

1132
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:19,760
harvest mode at King of the 
Hills. 

1133
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:23,640
Not sure how much those tax 
losses will be getting. 

1134
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:26,480
Utilise it, you know, sugar zone
anytime soon. 

1135
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:27,880
Maybe it signals they're going 
to buy. 

1136
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:29,800
Something in Canada or it or 
they? 

1137
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:31,680
Might be buying something. 
Oh, you know, either 

1138
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:32,560
jurisdiction. 
Really. 

1139
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:36,480
I just thought that was a really
strange thing to put on the 

1140
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:40,440
front page of your annual annual
results. 

1141
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:43,360
God bloody. 
Jeez, you'd have to have some 

1142
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:44,840
balls to buy something in 
Canada. 

1143
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:46,720
The market reaction to an 
Aussie. 

1144
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:50,440
Another Aussie gold miner bought
in North American asset as a 

1145
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:54,920
producer or like that's a big 
gamble that's. 

1146
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:58,080
Yeah, they're Speaking of cash. 
You know, and we we spoke about 

1147
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:00,440
this a couple episodes ago, you 
know, what are they going to do 

1148
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:04,880
with, you know, half a billion 
dollars cash, no buybacks, 

1149
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:08,800
dividends or a hedge book 
cleanup or sugar zone race that 

1150
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:12,120
has been flagged just as yet. 
You know, those are all 

1151
00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:14,280
potential options. 
Maybe it's a that's. 

1152
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:16,360
Why it's called a vault? 
Like it stays in there, it 

1153
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:19,520
doesn't come out for dividends 
or buybacks like the cash just 

1154
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:21,640
stays in the vault. 
They can keep some in the vault,

1155
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:22,920
but they've. 
Got to let a little bit. 

1156
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:27,960
Every now and then. 
But the the financial year 25 

1157
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:32,280
guidance does give us some sort 
of initial clues and this is 

1158
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:38,160
arguably probably the reason why
the stock is off so much today. 

1159
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:42,440
So they actually released FY25 
guidance for the first time 

1160
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:49,680
midpoints 410,000 oz at 2350 
announce all the sustaining 

1161
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:54,880
mixed reviews from the Street, 
particularly on or more so 

1162
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:59,800
negative views on the higher 
OpEx compared to FY24, which 

1163
00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:04,080
was, you know, about 300 bucks 
an ounce lower and higher than 

1164
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:06,520
expected CapEx. 
So what's that CapEx? 

1165
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:07,560
Yeah. 
So they. 

1166
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:09,960
I'll put up the screen grab 
here. 

1167
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:12,440
You can sort of see how that's 
distributed across the 

1168
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:16,720
portfolio, but the main piece is
sort of an accelerated waste 

1169
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:20,240
stripping at at cost than Matt 
Munger expected to be around 

1170
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:24,680
$105 million in addition to the 
all in sustaining costs. 

1171
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:27,600
And then there's $25 million of 
growth CapEx. 

1172
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:30,920
They're also doing studies on 
cough mill expansion, which is 

1173
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:33,920
again one of those things that 
we flagged as an area where they

1174
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:36,720
might redirect that cash, still 
spending a bit of money. 

1175
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:38,560
Sugar zone as well, that's 
pretty elevated. 

1176
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:42,160
That's the one I was 
particularly surprised about 33 

1177
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:47,320
to $35 million to maintain 
operational readiness and 

1178
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:50,240
includes follow up, you know, 
follow up drilling to you know 

1179
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:52,280
update the the mineral resource 
there. 

1180
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:54,560
There wasn't. 
If they updated that, it's. 

1181
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:58,760
Putting like 100 kilometres, 
Well, however many I think 

1182
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:01,400
they're doing. 
More follow up drilling based on

1183
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:04,480
the results of that drilling to 
then sort of culminated in one 

1184
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:07,200
big sort of updated resource. 
Yeah, to do. 

1185
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:09,240
It not not updated, yeah. 
So that. 

1186
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:12,320
Out, yeah. 
So and there wasn't much 

1187
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:17,760
indication in the in the results
today about when or if that'll 

1188
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:20,680
get restarted. 
But I just felt that was, look, 

1189
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:25,280
I'm not a minor, but 30, three, 
$35 million to basically sort of

1190
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:27,800
have an asset and care and 
maintenance is, is is pretty 

1191
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:29,760
chunky. 
Yeah, I think. 

1192
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:34,280
It rates of the old silver like 
a bit like how people have 

1193
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:36,240
explained the history lot. 
They're they're all in 

1194
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:39,720
sustaining cost guidance and 
whatever was always higher than 

1195
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:42,880
most, but they just seem to 
always deliver into. 

1196
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:45,640
It seem to always. 
Deliver and always hoard more 

1197
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:48,880
cash than most companies. 
Like they're obviously good cash

1198
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:51,080
generator. 
So it'd be simple interesting to

1199
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:53,760
see if that's going to be red 5 
as well. 

1200
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:57,320
Yeah, as you said, the cost all 
in stone so spooked everyone, 

1201
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:01,600
but I just wonder in a years 
time if it all won't be that 

1202
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:02,640
sort of come together. 
Yeah. 

1203
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:05,840
And look and they'll be 
spending, you know, up to $20 

1204
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:09,720
million in expiration as well. 
So look from now getting into 

1205
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:13,000
that cash harvesting mode, 
particularly at cough. 

1206
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:19,240
So I I'm really keen to say 
them, you know, do something 

1207
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:22,160
with all this cash, not keep it 
all in the vault as we said. 

1208
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:26,520
So I mean, you know, Perseus is 
pack perhaps an example to look 

1209
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:29,120
at. 
You know, they've got US $587 

1210
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:31,640
million in cash. 
They're making lots of cash. 

1211
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:35,520
They they did a strategic stake 
in predictive that it doing $100

1212
01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:37,680
million buy back. 
They're doing a $0.05 per share 

1213
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:41,240
dividend and they're investing 
CapEx into developing the Yori 

1214
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:45,760
underground and, and Nanzaga. 
So obviously, you know, it's got

1215
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:47,440
to make sense. 
You shouldn't just spend that 

1216
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:51,400
money just just because. 
But I feel like they, you know, 

1217
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:54,120
there's probably some labours 
they could pull there for sure 

1218
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:57,240
before this podcast. 
Ever finishes in history. 

1219
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:02,240
I want a guest request for Luke 
Tonkin to do an investor call. 

1220
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:03,560
I'd love. 
I'll just. 

1221
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:06,080
I'll wait. 
That'll make my day. 

1222
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:08,320
Come on, Tonks. 
We want to hear from you. 

1223
01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:10,040
Oh, goodness. 
So. 

1224
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:14,560
I think that's some. 
I'm saying. 

1225
01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:18,320
I'm keen to, yeah, say keen to 
say what they do with that cash.

1226
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:20,880
And so we'll be keeping our eyes
peeled. 

1227
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:23,280
I've got another final. 
One for the Goldie's just I 

1228
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:29,720
found this this radio segment 
that's what I was looking for 

1229
01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:34,960
radio segment from in regards to
Mcfillimy's Ben Fordham on 2GB 

1230
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:38,440
last week regarding the Tanya 
Plibersek's decision regarding 

1231
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:41,600
Regis's goldmine over there. 
Have a listen to this. 

1232
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:44,280
This is. 
I found this very interesting. 

1233
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:47,200
Tanya Plibersek. 
The Federal environment minister

1234
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:51,320
says she cancelled the mine to 
protect Indigenous heritage as 

1235
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:53,440
requested by the Warajiri 
people. 

1236
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:57,600
In secret conversations, it 
turns out that only a tiny 

1237
01:03:57,600 --> 01:04:01,160
Aboriginal group made up of only
18 people are against it. 

1238
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:05,160
It's led by an artist called 
Nyree Reynolds, who calls 

1239
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:09,160
herself a proud Weragerie elder.
But here's where it gets 

1240
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:12,280
interesting. 
We've called around members of 

1241
01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:14,880
the Indigenous community and 
spoken to a lot of Weragerie 

1242
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:17,920
figures and elders. 
And the ones we've spoken to 

1243
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:21,400
have never heard of Nyree 
Reynolds, who calls herself a 

1244
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:24,600
Weragerie elder. 
For example. 

1245
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:28,320
We've spoken to Uncle Graham, a 
Weragerie elder, he's never 

1246
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:31,560
heard of her. 
We've spoken to Auntie Chris, a 

1247
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:36,200
Weragerie woman, she's never 
heard of Nyree Reynolds either. 

1248
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:40,280
We've spoken to James, a local 
Weragerie man, he's never heard 

1249
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:43,200
of her. 
And we've spoken to Roy RCA, 

1250
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:47,440
Weragerie elder and the former 
chairperson of the NSW 

1251
01:04:47,440 --> 01:04:52,080
Aboriginal Land Council. 
And you'll never guess Roy has 

1252
01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:54,240
never heard of Nyree Reynolds, 
too. 

1253
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:58,280
And Roy's on the line right now.
Who is Nyree Reynolds? 

1254
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:02,560
I asked the minister. 
Because I don't, I don't know. 

1255
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:05,880
I, I was born and bred on the 
banks of Macquarie River. 

1256
01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:09,920
I'm a Radri traditional owner. 
And we've never heard of this 

1257
01:05:09,920 --> 01:05:11,200
lady. 
I'm sorry. 

1258
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:13,760
I just, I'm just being truthful 
and I'm being honest. 

1259
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:15,800
We've never heard. 
I've never heard of her. 

1260
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:19,320
Sorry, Roy. 
Can I just say this having seen 

1261
01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:22,840
the video of Nyree Reynolds on 
Tanya Plibersek's Instagram 

1262
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:25,480
page, and I don't know whether 
you've seen the video, but she 

1263
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:28,800
looks white. 
Nyree Reynolds says that she's 

1264
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:33,480
heard the voices of Aboriginal 
ancestors asking her to help 

1265
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:36,400
cancel the mine. 
Oh, come on. 

1266
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:37,960
Like, you know, say you didn't 
commit. 

1267
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:39,640
And you know what this does, 
Ben? 

1268
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:43,920
This makes a mockery of my 
people, my old people that 

1269
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:46,400
fought, fought for. 
Rights in this country. 

1270
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:49,520
And now it's about economic 
empowerment for us as Aboriginal

1271
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:51,520
people. 
Right, there you go. 

1272
01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:55,920
I found that fascinating. 
Good digging. 

1273
01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:58,000
Benny Fordham what a time to be 
alive. 

1274
01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:01,440
Yeah, yeah. 
Oh, we're like we'll finish off 

1275
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:03,320
bloody. 
We haven't even covered ERA yet.

1276
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:06,120
We'll just the the did we cover 
that? 

1277
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:07,680
I think they're coming out on 
their day off. 

1278
01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:11,080
You said they're going. 
Ahead with that big .002 cents 

1279
01:06:11,080 --> 01:06:12,040
I. 
Hope you didn't buy shares 

1280
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:14,920
before that party. 
Hell we've got our eyes peeled 

1281
01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:17,320
there. 
Interested to see with the 

1282
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:21,200
pending court case. 
If real putting the foot down 

1283
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:26,040
now and forcing people to tip 
money in into something with a 

1284
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:30,560
pending court case. 
So see Go Corporate Australia. 

1285
01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:32,840
Oh, corporate Australia. 
As far, yeah, we'll keep you 

1286
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:35,040
posted on that one, right? 
Oh, good work. 

1287
01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:38,280
Bloody team, sensational 
dissection lot going on. 

1288
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:41,920
Happy to contribute nothing and.
We we, we skipped that many 

1289
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:43,560
companies today because it was 
too much. 

1290
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:45,960
Same for my IGO cost much others
anyway. 

1291
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:49,840
Oh yeah, I think. 
There's a possibly a correction 

1292
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:52,840
to the director's special this 
morning. 

1293
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:58,040
I got informed of I think the 
IGO net debt wasn't 80 850, it 

1294
01:06:58,040 --> 01:07:02,360
was 797,000,000 I think. 
Got that? 

1295
01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:05,080
Got a bit of mail in Roger from 
the Big. 

1296
01:07:05,080 --> 01:07:08,320
Dog all. 
Righty guys, right? 

1297
01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:10,720
Oh, thanks to. 
Someone we didn't skip and we're

1298
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:14,520
never going to bloody skip. 
Is Axis mining Technology the 

1299
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:17,360
trusted advisor who asked you a 
lot? 

1300
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:19,080
Do you reckon people are saying 
that in their head? 

1301
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:22,280
Trusted Advisor Drill survey You
saw the the. 

1302
01:07:22,280 --> 01:07:24,720
Email from the the fellow I 
walked past in car. 

1303
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:28,120
What did he say? 
He. 

1304
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:31,320
He. 
Mentioned three of our sponsors 

1305
01:07:31,640 --> 01:07:33,560
in an email legend. 
Oh, good idea. 

1306
01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:36,960
Did he mention MMS? 
He would've verified. 

1307
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:38,320
He would've mentioned three of 
these did. 

1308
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:40,280
Yep Yep. 
Verify spec power and 

1309
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:44,240
technology, DSI underground, 
Silverstone, CRE insurance, 

1310
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:48,120
Greylands equipment, K drill and
get a spark chart up here. 

1311
01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:51,200
The information contained in 
this episode of Money of Mine is

1312
01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:53,400
of general nature only and does 
not take into account the 

1313
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:57,000
objectives, financial situation 
or needs of any particular 

1314
01:07:57,000 --> 01:07:59,040
person. 
Before making any investment 

1315
01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:02,080
decision, you should consult 
with your financial advisor and 

1316
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:05,240
consider how appropriate the 
advice is to your objectives, 

1317
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:07,440
financial situation and needs.