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I'm excited. 
I don't want to stop a sort of 

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do. 
I'm excited about uranium. 

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Yeah, for the last year or so. 
Bit of news out Friday. 

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Mate, there's lots to be excited
about today. 

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Just bringing you a Christmas 
present. 

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Oh no. 
Maybe, maybe, maybe not 

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aluminium. 
Aluminium, a bit of copper as 

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well. 
Super, super interesting news 

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coming out sort of Friday over 
the weekend, which we'll chat 

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about. 
Craig, you've got a couple 

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cashbox companies. 
Exactly. 

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Yeah, I came to talk about some 
funny special dividends from 2 

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separate cashbox companies on my
radar today. 

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Plus I've got 2 announcements 
for the money miners. 

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Maddie, first one along, you're 
thinking of Christmas. 

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We're going to have a Money of 
Mine Christmas party, which 

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basically means drinks at the 
pub. 

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If you're a money miner and you 
want to talk mining stocks and 

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just reflect on the weird wacky 
year and look forward to the 

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year ahead and maybe talk about 
some word on the decline, then 

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we want you to come along. 
It's going to be at Brew Dog on 

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the 3rd of December, 5:00 PM 
onwards. 

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It's pretty exciting. 
Tuesday night. 

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I'll happily talk about fishing 
or golf or something because I'm

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probably sick of mine and by the
end of this year, very right. 

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And the second announcement that
he is what's coming after the 

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end of the year, that's the fact
that JD and I are going to go to

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in Darba this year, which will 
be a first for us. 

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Fuck, sorry, I keep, I keep 
doing that. 

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I'm coming for it. 
It's 20/20/25. 

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We're going to in Darba. 
It's not just the fact that 

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we're going to go to a buddy 
mining conference in South 

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Africa that we're excited about.
We're very keen to visit a bunch

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of mining operations that are 
also in Africa on the back end 

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of that trip. 
So you know, we're, we're 

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literally, we're keen to do a 
bunch of site visits. 

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We're keen to see what mining is
like in in Africa. 

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We're keen to, you know, get as 
close as we possibly can to some

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really interesting kind of 
operations out that way and get 

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some cool content about it while
we're there. 

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So you know, if you have any 
suggestions or ideas or you 

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know, or even just contacts for 
us to help make that happen, 

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both from a logistics and a 
funding perspective, get in 

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touch with us at 
gc@moneyofmine.com. 

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I'm not going because it's not 
safe for me to be drum drunk and

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obnoxious in South Africa. 
It's better for the business, 

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boys. 
Let's get into it. 

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The Russian uranium enrichment 
ban, temporary ban that come out

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on Friday. 
So she's all up and green on 

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screen for uranium. 
So what's actually happening? 

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Also Ding Ding Ding, I'll do 
hold. 

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I have skin in the game for 
Uranium Paladin and Spa. 

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I never would have known you'd. 
Have had some exploration so 

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just letting you know God, if 
you wouldn't be this keen if I 

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wasn't exposed. 
So no, I would be right. 

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Let's let's paint the landscape 
of what this means before we get

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into the news and everything. 
So for those who don't know, US 

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relies on Russia for about 20% 
of their EUP enriched uranium 

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products. 
So Russia is responsible for 

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about 40% of global uranium 
enrichment. 

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So and this temporary ban is it 
is banning the export of 

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enriched uranium from Russia to 
the US. 

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And this was on the back of US 
previously announcing this year 

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that US would have to apply for 
waivers to import enriched 

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uranium from Russia. 
So that that was, you know, on 

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the back of, I guess, US backing
Ukraine for the Russia invasion 

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of Ukraine. 
And that was sort of the start 

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of this whole US really putting 
the foot down to separate itself

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from Russia. 
So it's retaliation to those 

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sanctions. 
Yeah, effectively. 

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So now I'll I'll just go into 
briefly the context of uranium 

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conversion and enrichment. 
So I guess like the platform of 

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what the flow on effects of all 
this is for might some of it 

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might be repeated for first time
listeners. 

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This is a mining podcast. 
If this is your first time 

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listening, anything you want to 
know about mining, this is a 

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place to be this. 
Is this is this is more dense 

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than mining mate conversion and 
enrichment? 

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Oh mate, mining, nuclear, 
fucking upstream, downstream, 

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bloody everything. 
We are the men Vertically 

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integrated, yes. 
OK, so uranium that comes out of

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minds, U3O8, that's the the 
powdered uranium product, they 

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call it yellow cake. 
But U3O8, it's actually the step

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after that it's a bit of an 
olivey thing. 

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So that's 99.3% U 238 and .7% U 
235. 

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So that is then sent to a 
converter. 

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You hear about converters, which
is turned that converts that 

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powdered shit into U F6, like 
the gaseous form. 

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Now the biggest ones that do 
this conversion. 

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So Iran has tricastanside in 
France. 

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You got the Honeywell uranium 
hexafluoride processing facility

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in Illinois in the US and that's
that partnership between General

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Atomics and Honeywell known as 
Convidon. 

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So you'll hear about Covidon. 
So that's that one that was, you

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know, recently turned back on 
Camico has got their Port Hope 

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conversion facility in Canada. 
So that's in Ontario. 

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And then you've also got Russia 
and Chinas conversion facilities

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as well. 
I think Russia is about 20% of 

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global conversion. 
Don't quote me on that. 

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Something like that. 
So then that U F6, the converted

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uranium is then sent to an 
enricher so that that's where 

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the centrifuges spin the fuck 
out of the gas to take away some

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of the U23A and increase the 
concentration of the U235. 

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So that takes that U235 
concentration from about .7 to 3

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to 5%. 
And that's the range it needs to

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be into work to go into a fuel 
fabricated indoor fuel rod to 

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power a nuclear reactor that's 
referred to as low enriched 

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uranium Lau. 
So as you can see, as I said 

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before, Russia's responsible for
40% of that global enrichment 

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and US relies on 20% of their 
needs for their nuclear power 

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plants from the Russian 
enrichment. 

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The rest, the rest of it is done
from like Urano and Uranco. 

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So enrichment expansion is going
on at the moment. 

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It's not all just fixed to 
Russia like that 40% to Russia. 

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So you've got your Ranko 
expanding their New Mexico 

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facility in the US. 
So that starts lifting in 2025. 

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Irano, they're going to, they 
announced they're going to build

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a new enrichment facility in 
Tennessee. 

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That's a bit bit away because 
these things are like freaking 

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football fields of centrifuges. 
They're huge by the sounds. 

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Irano also expanding their 
Tricaston enrichment in France, 

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30% left due in 2028. 
Euranko also expanding their 

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Almelo in facility in 
Netherlands by 15% in 2027. 

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So that's Uranco is the 
consortium of its UK Neil Dutch 

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and Germany. 
So they're, they're the main 

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ones, so. 
So that Euranko one in New 

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Mexico right now, my 
understanding is that makes up 

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1/3 of the enriched uranium 
demand that the reactors in the 

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00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:07,600
US need in the US, Yeah. 
And that expansion you're 

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talking about is just a 15% 
expansion by 2027, so? 

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So not, not there yet. 
And then obviously, so it's all 

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in the pipeline. 
And then from what they say 

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about that's the enrichment and 
then from what they say about 

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the conversion at the moment, 
like the conversion's going to 

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be like pretty skinny for the 
next few years. 

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Because you look at the actual 
like the U F6 price has 

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increased fourfold since 2022. 
Like the, which is essentially 

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the cost of conversion, like 
enrichment costs, prices tripled

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00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:43,360
in the same period. 
So you can see the graph of the 

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00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:47,720
relative increase in conversion 
in enrichment to the actual spot

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00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:51,160
price here. 
And it's like really started to 

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00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,760
started to sky rocket. 
But that makes the economics of 

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building one of these things 
better. 

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00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,520
Yeah, I would think from what 
they say at the moment, and I'll

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00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,840
get into this whole lot, the bit
of a U F6 bottleneck, you would,

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00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:09,160
it sounds like if people really 
need stuff converted, they have 

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00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:13,520
to pay through the nose, which 
you would assume flies into the 

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pockets of the converters for 
that. 

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So I think is if the conversion 
is that skinny at the moment and

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they're having to overpay to get
it done and we'll get into why 

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that is, I would imagine that 
would flow into the pockets of 

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00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,640
the converters. 
Yes, No, let's do another 

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episode on it. 
So I guess the big thing now, 

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now on that landscape of 
conversion and enrichment, the 

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00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:41,880
big thing to consider for this 
AUP, import ban, import export, 

156
00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,080
bloody Rusher and US ban and 
each other. 

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So when the US buys the AUP, the
enriched uranium from Russia, so

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00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:55,640
namely Rosatom, they have to 
send return U F6 feet. 

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00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,640
So that's a benefit for them. 
So they get the enriched 

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00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,160
uranium. 
Once they get it, they then have

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00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:06,160
to send back the U F6 that would
have been effectively needed to 

162
00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:10,040
create that enriched uranium. 
So it benefits them because it 

163
00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:13,600
delays that having the U F6 
first, they can get the enriched

164
00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:17,400
uranium, then send it back. 
But for the Western enriches 

165
00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:22,440
Arano in France and the Uranco 
consortium, they have to send 

166
00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:27,760
the U F6 first for them to use 
that U F6 to create the enriched

167
00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:31,360
uranium. 
So they need the U F6 sooner for

168
00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:36,080
that enrichment to to occur. 
So with this temporary being 

169
00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:40,600
being invoked, it's there. 
There is some there. 

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00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:44,160
They said there's some U F6 that
would be currently already 

171
00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:48,720
converted in the US that is 
owing to Russia for enrichment 

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00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:52,160
that they've already already 
received. 

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00:09:52,560 --> 00:09:55,320
And then so they have to send 
that back. 

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But then they also need to get 
more U F6 to presupply Iran on 

175
00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,520
your Ranko now that they can't 
get any more AUP from Russia. 

176
00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:09,320
So it's a bit of a double whammy
on that supply of U F6 and 

177
00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:11,720
temporary. 
Temporary is probably the 

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00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:15,480
keyword here as well. 
So I'm not heard commentary. 

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00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:19,400
Not sure if that temporary ban 
is in place because US hasn't 

180
00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:25,640
sent back all the U F6O2 Russia 
as part of that the return feed 

181
00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:29,680
contracts or if it's more in 
line with the fact that US have 

182
00:10:29,680 --> 00:10:32,880
import banned the import of 
Russian AUP and now Russia are 

183
00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:36,520
banning the export of it to US. 
So might be a bit from column A 

184
00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,520
and a bit from column B the. 
Big question, Mattie is, you 

185
00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:41,480
know, what does this mean? 
Like how's it impact? 

186
00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:43,440
Does it mean? 
Does it impact the equities, you

187
00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:45,360
know, the physical price, all 
that sort of stuff, right? 

188
00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:50,360
So as I said, pretty green on 
screen for the ASX 1, so Palatin

189
00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:54,320
boss, DPLA, Banneman all up 
between 68% on the ASX today 

190
00:10:54,800 --> 00:11:00,200
spot uranium price lifted from 
79 to 8250 on Friday. 

191
00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:08,080
As I said, spot is that I think 
it accounted for 15% of uranium 

192
00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:12,640
purchase last year. 
So majority 85% is from long 

193
00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:16,040
term contracts. 
So it's a thinly traded liquid 

194
00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,960
market. 
But the spot price does sort of 

195
00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:24,400
have have the role of like 
setting floors and ceilings and 

196
00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,520
what they're getting paid in 
those contracts based on its 

197
00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:29,880
fluctuation inside those floor 
and ceilings. 

198
00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,920
So it serves a purpose, but it 
is very thinly traded. 

199
00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,840
So if there is a bit of a 
bottleneck of U F6 currently, 

200
00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,400
because they've got to send some
back and they've got to create 

201
00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:46,520
more U F6 to send to the western
enriches like you can't make U 

202
00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:52,320
F6 without U three O 8. 
So it's the the question is, is 

203
00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:57,920
like will will there be like 
some short term movements in the

204
00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:02,880
spot market or however, for 
utilities having to buy get 

205
00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:06,720
uranium quicker to get the U F6 
created to get the enrichment 

206
00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,160
going. 
So like you can't can't have one

207
00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,120
without the other. 
So it's with that jump in the 

208
00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,400
spot price. 
I'll be interested to watch this

209
00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:18,880
week if this if that bottleneck 
is sort of a short term thing 

210
00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:24,600
that will require pounds to be 
actually produced earlier than 

211
00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:26,960
utilities expected to produce 
them. 

212
00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:31,480
Not sure that's that's the very 
because it's a pretty firm 

213
00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,960
fucking stance that's been put 
that like you cannot get AUP on 

214
00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:40,400
this anymore. 
There's 20% of U SS enriched 

215
00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,520
needs which they are no longer 
able to access from Russia. 

216
00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:45,760
Yeah. 
And even for the alternative 

217
00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,920
like enriches to be able to meet
the requirements, they might 

218
00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,160
have a pound shortfall in in 
order to even get that to there 

219
00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:54,760
is what you're saying? 
Yeah, well they got to yeah. 

220
00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,760
They just they need to get them 
U F6 quicker if they want the EU

221
00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,480
pay back quicker which they and 
they'll I would anticipate they 

222
00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,440
will need, but need to buy 
pounds quicker to create that U 

223
00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:06,720
F6. 
So it's going to be. 

224
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:08,280
Hence price up Oh. 
Maybe. 

225
00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:13,800
Maybe it's only one day and 
because this happened mid during

226
00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,920
trading on the Friday night in 
the US. 

227
00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,600
So just going to be going to be 
an interesting, interesting week

228
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,480
because you can't, you can't go 
on Twitter at the moment without

229
00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,840
saying something about maybe 
it's just who I'm subscribed to,

230
00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,880
but something about bloody 
nuclear data centres, Friggin 

231
00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:33,720
Elon Musk promoting nuclear. 
Like it's all friggin, it's wild

232
00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,520
at the moment, but this whole 
data centre talk, it's like it's

233
00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:40,720
not really, it doesn't really 
affect uranium supply and demand

234
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,240
today. 
Like it's, these are obviously 

235
00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:45,760
long term things. 
It's all like good for the long 

236
00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:49,680
term nuclear sentiment and, and 
the whole flavour of it, but 

237
00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,160
it's, it's still a long way 
away, still need reactors built 

238
00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,560
and all that. 
Like it seems like the short 

239
00:13:55,560 --> 00:13:58,720
term things like the Three Mile 
Island race start that we heard 

240
00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,280
not long ago, that seems to move
the needle because it's doesn't 

241
00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,200
take as long to restart an 
existing plan as to build a 

242
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,360
whole new one. 
So that is shorter term pounds 

243
00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:11,720
that are needed to be purchased.
So it's it's a bit more bullish 

244
00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:13,240
like that. 
I saw an interesting just on 

245
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,360
that one quickly Maddie, a sort 
of vote from the, the local 

246
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:18,000
people that live around Three 
Mile Island. 

247
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:23,040
So 57% said they were in favour 
of a restart, 43% said they they

248
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:26,560
were not in favour, which is 
kind of interesting number that 

249
00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:30,280
kind of stood out at me just on 
in terms of that one getting 

250
00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:32,200
going again just to get a feel 
for the sentiment. 

251
00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:34,720
Well mate, if it was a scheme of
arrangement it wouldn't get 

252
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,400
through 5757 in US or Australia.
It's. 

253
00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:39,640
True. 
This is true. 

254
00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:41,680
It's greater than 50. 
That's a good start. 

255
00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,440
Don't forget, I haven't heard, I
haven't been able to confirm, 

256
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:49,120
but I haven't seen anything to 
say that Olympic Dam has resumed

257
00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,080
operations after they were 
smashed by a tornado. 

258
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,240
Tornado, so that was mid 
October. 

259
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,880
So that was another. 
So that's about, they're about I

260
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,480
think 5% of global supply, 
uranium around £8 million. 

261
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:04,680
Did say it was just going to be 
out for five to seven days. 

262
00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:06,320
No, but there's nothing. 
Didn't say the restarting. 

263
00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:09,920
Nothing to say that it hasn't 
that it's restarted yet and I've

264
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,280
heard I've heard come true. 
They'll say and it was still 

265
00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:13,400
down. 
I'm not I'm not sure. 

266
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,960
So I can't confirm that, but 
that's that's a some pounds that

267
00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,560
have been taken out. 
So yes, it's going to be very 

268
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:24,760
interesting this way to see what
they say you pan in this U F6 

269
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:28,120
feedstock thing has on the 
market. 

270
00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,400
So it's because I've heard I've 
heard people saying as well, 

271
00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:35,000
like everyone just puts a 
friggin a graph up to find 

272
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,120
something to support their 
thesis. 

273
00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,000
They're like you're right, I'll 
bring up the graph. 

274
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,520
You're right. 
Uranium spot prices back at the 

275
00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:46,120
same .1 year ago before it went 
on the run from eighty to 105. 

276
00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,400
And so it's just a perfect craft
to support everyone's thesis. 

277
00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,840
Good time on to reflect on what 
actually caused that last year 

278
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:55,800
and you can weigh up what's 
happening now and what's 

279
00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,560
happening then. 
So, so that was sort of November

280
00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,640
to February when it had its run 
last year, because I because 

281
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:07,320
September 4, that's when Kamiko 
announced 2023. 

282
00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:11,240
Kamiko announced challenges at 
Cigar Lake, Key Lake, MacArthur 

283
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:15,000
River and drop production 
guidance by about £3,000,000 on 

284
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:20,360
100% basis that the political 
upheaval in Nigeria commenced. 

285
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:24,080
So that disrupted uranium 
shipments to European nuclear 

286
00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,440
plants. 
So that because Iran, I was 63% 

287
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,120
owner of that Samir operating 
the Alec mines, that was about 

288
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,840
5% of global supply. 
Yet Russia's invasion of Ukraine

289
00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,560
was ongoing. 
So the everyone trying to D 

290
00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:42,240
bottleneck from Russia day 
couple from Russia, sorry. 12th 

291
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,600
of Jan 2024, This was the big 
one. 

292
00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:48,520
That's when Khazadimprom 
announced adjustment to the 2024

293
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:52,320
production due to sulfuric acid 
supply issues and construction 

294
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:54,400
delays. 
And then, you know, three days 

295
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,800
after, that's when the spot 
price actually peaked at 

296
00:16:57,800 --> 00:16:59,960
$105.00. 
So that's everything that 

297
00:16:59,960 --> 00:17:03,560
happened back then and this is 
where we are now. 

298
00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:06,200
So another one. 
You missed one there. 

299
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,800
Another like, yeah, well, 
December 9th, 2023. 

300
00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:13,000
That's when Daesat released 
their new All Terrain vehicle 

301
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,560
for Remote Gravity Survey. 
So that was that was in that 

302
00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,800
period developed by their in 
house engineering business 

303
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,240
extreme fabrications might all 
wouldn't underestimate Daish 

304
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:27,640
that's influence on the uranium 
spot price at all got it it it 

305
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,000
it was in that window it. 
It happened then. 

306
00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:32,160
Yeah. 
That just want any sort of GFS 

307
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:34,520
work They can do it all hey? 
Well, they had just got planes 

308
00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,760
and helicopters JD there they 
can go on the ground for 

309
00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:41,920
magnetics, gravity and seismic. 
Bloody Nathan Daish is the man 

310
00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,320
you need to call his numbers in 
the show notes and most 

311
00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,040
importantly, he is AGC. 
Do you think JF is? 

312
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,840
Do you think Dashet? 
JC authority vehicles, 

313
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,400
helicopter gravity control, 
that's all you need to know. 

314
00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:56,160
So going to be interesting. 
Wait for the ubles. 

315
00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,240
I love being I'm in a Twitter 
chat now with all the ubles a 

316
00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,040
lot. 
What do you what do you think? 

317
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:04,400
Well, just to flesh out the kind
of bear, the bear side of it. 

318
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:08,560
It's, it's another fragile point
in the whole nuclear supply 

319
00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:10,640
chain. 
Like not only do you need to 

320
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,320
race out or build all these 
reactors as well, but you now 

321
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,120
realising if you're in the 
States, hey, we should 

322
00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:20,560
definitely be building our own 
converting and enrichment 

323
00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:24,240
capacity because we can't rely 
on the, the current, you know, 

324
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,000
status quo. 
Yeah, yeah. 

325
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,280
And I think and it is happening 
with the New Mexico and 

326
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,400
Tennessee, interesting one's 
going to be the you'd say it's 

327
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:37,040
the DLA of uranium is the laser 
enrichment as well with Silex 

328
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,080
and that I haven't dug too deep 
into that. 

329
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,120
But they're up more than any of 
the uranium miners today. 

330
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,040
Silex How much are they up? 
15 odd percent. 

331
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,160
Yeah, yeah. 
So that's going to feed into 

332
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,760
that. 
But that's, yeah, now that it 

333
00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:52,520
was interesting talking to 
listening to that. 

334
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:57,680
Mark Alcon did a potty on that 
triangle investor and you know, 

335
00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:01,920
the whole fantasy around SMRS 
and everything reckons that in 

336
00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:06,000
their models they don't 
attribute anything to SMRS just 

337
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,720
purely based on the fact they 
don't know when they're going to

338
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,200
come online, how much they are 
like, when are they going to 

339
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:14,960
work as good? 
Like don't attribute anything. 

340
00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:19,120
I mean, obviously Mike Alkin is 
extremely bullish because he's 

341
00:19:19,120 --> 00:19:21,800
Mike Alkin. 
He'd have to, he'd have to learn

342
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,640
too much other shit to go 
bullish on something else. 

343
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:26,520
So. 
Very interesting that. 

344
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:27,800
Was a good, that was a good 
yarn. 

345
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:33,200
So yeah, there we go. 
That's Bob back and relax. 

346
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,240
Yeah. 
There's actually a bit of a 

347
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,440
geopolitical kind of theme to 
the show today. 

348
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:42,080
So going to talk about aluminium
and a bit of copper as well. 

349
00:19:42,120 --> 00:19:45,320
Now. 
Now this time it is China US as 

350
00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:49,560
opposed to Russia US. 
But you guys might have seen on 

351
00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:54,120
Friday, the aluminium price 
pumped over 5% on the LMA and 

352
00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:56,360
futures were up almost 8 1/2 
percent. 

353
00:19:56,360 --> 00:19:58,560
I think they settled about 6% 
higher. 

354
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:02,160
And conversely, the aluminium 
price in China fell a couple 

355
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,520
percent. 
So here on the ASX Alcoa, the 

356
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,360
CDI that trades here up 7% is 
32, up over 5%. 

357
00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:12,040
And, and I think if there were 
more names kind of like the 

358
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:16,280
uranium space that are in this, 
you know, supply chain, then 

359
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,240
people would be talking a bit 
more about it. 

360
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,280
But there's just. 
Not quite as much attention and.

361
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:25,080
My memory of the we've been 
watching the aluminium price 

362
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,760
expecting it to tick up in the 
same way that we've seen the 

363
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,920
alumina price, you know, just 
just soaring up amid the 

364
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,960
fragility in that supply chain 
as we've sort of discussed with 

365
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,200
with Alan Clark and been 
following that since, but the 

366
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:39,880
aluminium price hadn't really. 
Moved. 

367
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:41,160
Yeah. 
It's just sort of single digits 

368
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,320
up this year. 
And was this the first time you 

369
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,160
kind of like we sort of actually
said responded to just the lag? 

370
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:48,920
Yeah, it is. 
But it's, it's not because of 

371
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,800
those reasons. 
It's because something else has 

372
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,520
come in. 
So should, should flesh out what

373
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:58,160
what exactly has happened. 
On Friday, China came out and 

374
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,680
said they're going to reduce the
export tax rebates for a bunch 

375
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,360
of products. 
So you've got some refined oil 

376
00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:09,080
products, batteries, 
photovoltaics, these were at 13%

377
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:10,640
roughly, you know, different on 
some. 

378
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,560
And for those products they're 
going down to 9%. 

379
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,800
Whereas for aluminium and 
copper, again, all about 13% 

380
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:20,360
rebates, they're being 
cancelled. 

381
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:24,920
So, you know, depending on the 
specific semi finished product 

382
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,600
that you're exporting, there was
a slightly different percent 

383
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:32,280
rebate, but they've been wiped. 
So traders on the LME have 

384
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,920
essentially bet that less 
rebates means there will be less

385
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:39,640
Chinese aluminium exports, hence
lower global supplier value. 

386
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,680
And on the back of that, you see
a price bump on the 

387
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,720
international prices. 
Again, like I said, not in 

388
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,080
China. 
The the world's just not getting

389
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:49,680
along at the moment, are they? 
I was thinking. 

390
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,680
No one's, no one's working 
together. 

391
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:53,680
How much, how much easier would 
it be if we all just got a lot 

392
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,200
of things would be cheaper? 
They need to get me in there. 

393
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,120
Get some good vibes. 
We'd have nothing to talk about 

394
00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:01,160
though Manny. 
So these changes are coming into

395
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,760
effect pretty quick. 
In two weeks time, they'll be in

396
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,560
effect December 1st. 
And like you say, Trav, this has

397
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,680
all come at a time when bauxite 
and aluminium markets have been 

398
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,760
pretty heavily disrupted. 
A lot of that came from what 

399
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,680
we'd seen in Guinea straining 
supply at the bauxite end. 

400
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:22,040
We'd seen stuff in, in WA with, 
you know, Kwinana being shut 

401
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,080
down across the world. 
There's been quite a few 

402
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,840
disruptions. 
So like I said before, aluminium

403
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,520
prices up single digits sort of 
under 10%. 

404
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,600
Guess how much the alumina price
has been up this year. 

405
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:38,680
I'm. 
Going to guess 45. 45. 70 fine, 

406
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:39,920
that's way off. 
Yeah. 

407
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,960
So consensus expectations right 
now take take these with a pinch

408
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,720
of salt because it's pretty hard
moving and you don't know when 

409
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,440
these disruptions come and sort 
of get get resolved. 

410
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,760
But the expectations are that a 
bunch more alumina will come to 

411
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,880
the market and ease this price 
spike that we have seen in the 

412
00:22:57,880 --> 00:22:59,920
next few months. 
Early 25 a lot of people were 

413
00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:03,280
sort of pointing to but you 
know, we'll see sometimes it can

414
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,800
take quite a while for these 
things to to work their way 

415
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,000
through the market all. 
Right that that China aluminium 

416
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,120
output is a very NE trending 
thing, O isn't. 

417
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,800
It it is pretty incredible. 
Yeah. 

418
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,800
So I mean, it, it kind of leads 
to a bit of a chat about the the

419
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:19,560
history. 
I found this pretty interesting 

420
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:21,760
digging into why China set these
up. 

421
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,600
So they, they set these tax 
rebates up in the 80s with the 

422
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:28,520
goal of just offering Chinese 
products at lower prices across 

423
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,240
the world, you know, targeting 
international customers. 

424
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,440
And that would obviously, like 
you see in that chart, Maddie, 

425
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,720
boost their export volumes as 
well as economic growth in the, 

426
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,680
in the country. 
This year specifically, the 

427
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,080
exports have been particularly 
strong for, for one reason 

428
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,400
that's weaker domestic demand 
for products, leading these 

429
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,920
people to to look elsewhere. 
I know we'd sort of spoken in 

430
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:51,760
the past, we'd seen it with 
steel. 

431
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,120
You've had people like Bluescope
here in Australia complaining 

432
00:23:55,120 --> 00:23:58,680
that the Chinese steel makers 
are just dumping steel across 

433
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:02,520
the world, lowering the prices, 
making it a bit tougher, you 

434
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,520
know, for companies like 
Bluescope. 

435
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,680
See the same for the domestic 
steel producers in, in America 

436
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,880
as well. 
On aluminium specifically, in 

437
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,640
the first half of the this year,
exports were up 13%. 

438
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,480
Like, I mean, just look at the 
trend on that chart. 

439
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:18,960
These are, these are big 
numbers. 

440
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,040
This has been going on for 
decades now and to still have 

441
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:26,000
1/2 year, we're up 13% on 
copper, which had, you know, 

442
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:30,320
similar sort of story overnight 
on Friday with the, the rebates 

443
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:34,360
being cut, the exports of 
unwrought copper were up 38% 

444
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,400
year on year. 
So a lot going on. 

445
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,480
And these are, these are big 
numbers on trends that have been

446
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,720
going on quite a while. 
There's pretty, pretty eye 

447
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,680
opening, not the sort of stuff 
I'd expected to see. 

448
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,200
And this has led to a bunch of 
tensions with a lot of people 

449
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,800
saying, hey, we need to slap on 
tariffs on all the products 

450
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,840
there they're exporting because 
it's just making it super 

451
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,240
uncompetitive for our domestic 
industries. 

452
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,200
You've seen that. 
All over the world. 

453
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,920
Cause the whole Trump tariff 
thing is nothing's really been 

454
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,920
announced yet. 
It's all just theories and 

455
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:07,240
everything, isn't it? 
Yeah. 

456
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,000
I mean, it's all just what he 
sort of chipped up and and kind 

457
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,800
of said, who knows what actually
gets put into legislation, but 

458
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,800
that is that is why we've seen 
this from the Chinese. 

459
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,640
They didn't say specifically why
they've actually cut the 

460
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,040
rebates, but you'd have to 
imagine it's exactly that. 

461
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,080
So we've seen similar stuff with
gallium, germanium a little 

462
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:30,160
while ago, Antimony, obviously, 
they're much, much, much smaller

463
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,240
markets like the aluminium 
market, the copper market, they 

464
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,880
are huge. 
And if you just sort of think 

465
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,960
about the implications of of 
what these guys are doing, they 

466
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,840
know around the world there's 
pretty limited capacity to grow 

467
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,920
aluminium production. 
You know that that you can't 

468
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,480
just turn that on overnight. 
So they know that the Chinese 

469
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,880
will be able to pass on some of 
these costs. 

470
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,880
And the the direct result of 
that is the cost of 

471
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,360
manufacturing products, say in 
the US, say if you're a car 

472
00:25:57,360 --> 00:26:00,680
maker that needs aluminium, is 
it's going to increase your 

473
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,040
input costs. 
It makes it more expensive. 

474
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,000
And maybe that gets passed on to
consumers as well. 

475
00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:08,720
And you and you feel the pinch. 
So it's the sort of starting 

476
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,360
point of the negotiations 
between the Chinese and the US 

477
00:26:12,360 --> 00:26:15,480
when, you know, it comes to 
comes to your country and you 

478
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,200
realise everyone's paying a bit 
more and they bought themselves 

479
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,400
a bit of leverage, right, And 
might have to negotiate the 

480
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,000
other way. 
A lot of this is also targeting,

481
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,240
there was a whole bunch of other
medals being targeted too often 

482
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,720
those sort of jewel use ones, 
which are both civilian and 

483
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,240
military in their application. 
So that's just kind of something

484
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,160
that that jumps out and is a bit
interesting. 

485
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,480
But yeah, I mean, like, like we 
kind of said, I think when Trump

486
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,960
takes office at the at the end 
of January, I'm sure this would 

487
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,360
be one of the top sort of 
talking point or one of the 

488
00:26:44,360 --> 00:26:47,280
talking points in a bunch of 
heaps that they're talking about

489
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,120
when they're sort of setting 
these tariff levels that Trump 

490
00:26:50,120 --> 00:26:52,680
has spoken about. 
You know, said 100% of time, 

491
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,840
said 60% at other times. 
Who knows where, where things 

492
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,960
will add up. 
But ultimately, it does kind of 

493
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,560
make things a bit more 
expensive, at least in the 

494
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,520
interim here. 
Is do you reckon those tariffs 

495
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,440
are going to be like a blanket 
across the board thing or is it 

496
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:10,200
going to be different tariffs 
for different items? 

497
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,880
Like would aluminium and copper 
be different to other things? 

498
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,720
You would think you would take 
them differently depending on 

499
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,480
what you can produce internally.
So you don't want to make your 

500
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,800
own people suffer too much. 
You kind of want to set the 

501
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,480
tariffs to protect your 
industry, but if you don't have 

502
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,800
an industry to sort of speak of 
in the certain production of 

503
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,120
whatever product that might be 
and it's only going to hurt you 

504
00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:36,680
to to ramp it up so. 
Aluminium would have to be a 

505
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,600
case there because it is so, so 
bloody China. 

506
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,680
Yeah, I mean China is more than 
half the the global production 

507
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,560
of aluminium. 
No, no surprises on on that one.

508
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,760
You're dead right so. 
Rare earths would be another 

509
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,720
one. 
Like, yeah, control they've got 

510
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:50,360
there. 
Yeah. 

511
00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:53,640
And it's not just. 
It's not just and commodities, 

512
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,000
it's a whole range of things. 
You know, finished products, 

513
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,360
yeah, like electric vehicles 
will come into the discussion. 

514
00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:01,400
Heaps of different products will
come into it. 

515
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,200
So to be. 
I think it's pretty much 

516
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,240
legislation and I think it's, I 
think it's more than just 

517
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:07,520
talking points. 
I think there's like some 

518
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,920
fleshed out kind of proposed 
policies that were a part of his

519
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,560
campaign which, yeah, have 
nuance to it. 

520
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,680
So I should buy BYD right now 
before the price? 

521
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:17,880
Comes up. 
I don't know if Australia will 

522
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,960
follow. 
Yeah, yeah. 

523
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:22,880
I don't know if Australia will 
Chuck on there. 

524
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:24,760
We don't have a car industry to 
protect, Yeah. 

525
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,200
Yeah, Yeah, we might. 
So their their tariffs won't 

526
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,680
affect, do you think they'll 
affect the price of things for 

527
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,680
us at all? 
Or potentially prices might all 

528
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,280
trend north and just inflation. 
But yeah, in terms of like the 

529
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,040
the relative discrepancies in in
EVs, I don't know if where is it

530
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,720
like if Australia is as at as 
much of A risk of having tariffs

531
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,800
put on Chinese EVs as the US? 
Yeah, again, just just one 

532
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,520
product. 
So we'll, we'll wait and see, 

533
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,240
but it's a very, very 
interesting time. 

534
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,760
Fun fact about aluminium, I 
didn't, I didn't know this. 

535
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,320
Aluminium is like especially in 
coal mines. 

536
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,240
It's like a bit of a frowned 
upon, not allowed, heavily 

537
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,640
regulated thing because 
aluminium if it if there's 

538
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:09,080
aluminium alloys and they strike
steel, it could create a spark 

539
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,840
and there's heavy regulation 
around how much aluminium can be

540
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,000
in things. 
Risk of a fire Risk of fire and 

541
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,200
the. 
Gas or stuff, No, so I didn't 

542
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:20,720
know that. 
I didn't realise that aluminium 

543
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,920
was a bit bloody, a bit bloody 
Voodoo chat, cheap. 

544
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:28,440
BT has actually informed me upon
this discovery that there is no 

545
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,800
indication that Sandvik uses 
aluminium in their ground 

546
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:33,840
Support Solutions. 
No, no. 

547
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,320
I did try to call to confirm it,
but I don't know. 

548
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,360
So I think based on, you know, 
if you're thinking that possibly

549
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:45,480
aluminium, no prices could lift 
with this China playing silly 

550
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,160
buggers, I don't think it's 
going to impact the ground 

551
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,160
support division of Sandvik. 
No, I don't think. 

552
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:51,760
Do you know what what is in 
there? 

553
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,000
Alloys that Sandvik's ground 
support division uses that Pixie

554
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,360
dust magic? 
It it's just that is why they 

555
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,160
are the best ultimat you could 
ever use. 

556
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:03,400
Yeah. 
That's something that doesn't 

557
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,200
change. 
And it's quite the metaphor, 

558
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:06,920
isn't it? 
Because like, even if China are 

559
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,760
playing silly buggers, the 
durability of Sandvik's ground 

560
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,240
support division is as durable 
as the bolts themselves. 

561
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,480
What they could like 1MCM VMDX 
Bolt couldn't hold up the weight

562
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,040
of the underground mining 
industry. 

563
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,960
Like I'm getting philosophical. 
Talk about heavy shoulders for 

564
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:25,440
Derek. 
Oh. 

565
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,200
Yes, just and like when you 
think seeing the ground support 

566
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,080
division, you think Derek heard.
Give yourself a Christmas gift. 

567
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,640
Get an order in. 
Oh, get him in before bloody 

568
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:36,560
even. 
It doesn't matter when you put 

569
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:37,920
it in, they'll just get it to 
you anyway. 

570
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaking of Christmas gifts, 
Maddie, couple of unexpected 

571
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,680
special dividends from some 
listed cash boxes that I caught 

572
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,760
my eye today. 
I found a pair of announcements 

573
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,480
which were kind of interesting 
this morning because they're 

574
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,680
both along the vein of, you 
know, these listed kind of 

575
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,880
cashbox companies paying out a 
special divvy to to 

576
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:56,680
shareholders. 
How so? 

577
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,280
I've got two companies to talk 
about and they both became 

578
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,040
cashbox companies in in in 
pretty different ways. 

579
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,400
So I thought, I thought there'd 
be a story to tell on both of 

580
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:04,720
them. 
Oh. 

581
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,160
Take it away. 
First one is Red Heel Minerals. 

582
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,640
This is the the company that 
previously held a 40% interest 

583
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,520
in the Red Heel iron ore joint 
venture. 

584
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,480
That is the project that Minrez 
did the deal on and that is what

585
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,600
is, you know, Onslow Iron Ore 
project today. 

586
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,600
When we, when we talk about that
project, Minres paid, you know, 

587
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,160
all up $400 million for that 
project in the deal. 

588
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,960
And Red Heel they basically 
retained, in addition to getting

589
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,880
paid that much money, they 
retained a 0.75% FoB royalty 

590
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,240
over, you know, over the project
too. 

591
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,000
Now Red Heel because they got a 
bunch of cash in the door from 

592
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,760
these big chunky payments from 
from Minres They've they've 

593
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:43,480
actually paid a series of 
special dividends to 

594
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,440
shareholders to kind of 
distribute a good chunk of the 

595
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,520
cash it received. 
Today's announcement was that 

596
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,080
they they're basically paying a 
fully franked 30 cent special 

597
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,440
divide to shareholders and you 
know the stock price ticked up a

598
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,520
little bit so the shareholders 
were happy with that one. 

599
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,480
These days I find the company 
kind of interesting, one of 

600
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:04,560
those interesting vehicles 
because like the shoe mine oil 

601
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:09,360
prices are USA $100 a tonne. 
Then you you'd expect Red Hill 

602
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,800
Minerals to get about 25,000,000
Australian per annum in royalty 

603
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,120
revenue from the Onslow project.
So that's already interrupt that

604
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,520
30 cent per share divvy, what's 
the share price, how much 

605
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:21,120
percent, what's the yield on 
that? 

606
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,840
About four low 4 bucks. 
OK. 

607
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,080
So I'll be a bit less than 10%, 
yeah. 

608
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,600
Up up 8% when I looked on the 
day. 

609
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,000
God, that's not bad. 
Down, up, up after you release a

610
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:34,600
dividend A. 
Pleasant surprise for 

611
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,160
shareholders. 
You don't say that. 

612
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,440
Yeah, yeah. 
Gotcha. 

613
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:39,480
Continue. 
Sorry. 

614
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,200
Yes. 
So they'll, you know, if all, if

615
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,280
all goes well at Onslow, then 
you can imagine Red Hill 

616
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,280
Minerals getting kind of $25 
million in in royalty revenue 

617
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,440
per year. 
At the same time, they're using 

618
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,920
some of that royalty revenue to 
advance some greenfields 

619
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,000
expiration programmes in their 
portfolio. 

620
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,160
So you can kind of imagine this,
this vehicle, they're spending 

621
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,120
about $6 million a year on 
Greenfield's expiration. 

622
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,800
They receive a lot more of that 
in the in the royalty revenue. 

623
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,640
And so then, you know, I imagine
they'll probably pay like a 

624
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,160
handsome kind of dividend to its
shareholders in addition to 

625
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,480
doing it's, it's some expiration
endeavours along the journey as 

626
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,400
well. 
It's kind of like Talisman, if 

627
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,560
you if you, yeah, which kind of 
comes to mind just from that 

628
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,440
royalty funding, the expiration 
sort of sort of a model. 

629
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,880
Bloody a high a yielding 
exploration company that's 

630
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,600
bloody that'll be on. 
Oh, there you go. 

631
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,960
I never heard of it. 
Any other any other similarities

632
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:36,640
to the Great Talisman and? 
There's there's other 

633
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,000
similarities, Matthew. 
So they're both both, like we've

634
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,960
talked about Talisman before, 
both both both Red heel and 

635
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,160
Talisman, they kind of got these
things, you know, major 

636
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,000
shareholders, which are also the
the chair people of those boards

637
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:50,120
and they've been pretty 
successful in the mining 

638
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:51,480
industry. 
For Talisman, it's obviously 

639
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,880
Carrie Armanis of Jubilee fame. 
For Red Hill Minerals, it's the 

640
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,080
lesser known fella by the name 
of Josh Pitt. 

641
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,920
And while you probably haven't 
heard of Josh before, he's being

642
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,800
associated with three 
discoveries in WA, Golden Grove,

643
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,600
Thunderbox and Bounty. 
So a fair bit more successful 

644
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,520
than most punters out there. 
Bounty, one of the most I've 

645
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,920
heard, one of the most seismic 
underground minds. 

646
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,040
It was they were Yeah, right 
frigging off, it said. 

647
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,440
You people that worked at 
Bounty, wow, I didn't job. 

648
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:31,120
She's not opens, brother is. 
He the other similarity to 

649
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,760
Talisman. 
So both Red Hill and Talisman 

650
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,440
got their royalties thanks to 
Minres. 

651
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,560
For Talisman, it was one Mara 
royalty that paid the royalty 

652
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:41,719
income and that funded the 
expiration. 

653
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,960
That's actually coming to an end
if you read Talisman's latest 

654
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,960
announcement. 
So they're going to no longer 

655
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,040
have that, that royalty paying 
their their revenue to fund the 

656
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,480
exploration. 
In the case of Red Heel, it's 

657
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,800
yeah, the Red Heel Lion or JV, 
which has a pretty extensive 

658
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,240
mine life ahead of it. 
So that that that bloody that 

659
00:34:59,240 --> 00:35:01,440
was IGN was today, wasn't it for
a deal? 

660
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:06,320
It was, and yeah, being 50 
metres away from Money Mine HQ, 

661
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,280
the Country Women's Association,
I popped my head in Maddie. 2 

662
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,400
reasons why I went one. 
Scones. 

663
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:15,120
I had, I had. 
No, it was. 

664
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,640
It was sandwiches and wraps. 
Not bad, not bad. 

665
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:24,080
So 1, I just find it an 
interesting vehicle, right? 

666
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,680
Like when you can fund 
expiration with the royalty, but

667
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:28,240
also you have it, it's kind of 
interesting. 

668
00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:31,120
It's only 64,000,000 shares on 
issue with this company. 

669
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,520
You can see they don't raise 
money. 

670
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,400
It's not like, you know, the, 
the 64,000,000 is not there 

671
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,440
because they've had to do a 
consolidation of shares. 

672
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,320
They don't raise money. 
Major shareholder owns like 40% 

673
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,120
of the company, you know, so 
it's an interesting vehicle from

674
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,640
that perspective. 
Second reason I'm trying to 

675
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,880
learn as much as I can about the
Onslow project because of the 

676
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,240
significance it has to to the 
min res situation right now. 

677
00:35:53,240 --> 00:35:56,600
So obviously, you know, these 
guys have no shit load about 

678
00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:00,200
that project being it was in 
their portfolio for a very long 

679
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,480
time. 
So I spoke with people and had a

680
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,400
yarn about, with people who are 
all, they're all pretty 

681
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:07,600
optimistic, to be honest on that
front in relation to us about 

682
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,800
this, Albeit they do have a, you
know, a royalty that will pay an

683
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,600
annuity like income from, from 
that project, but they seem 

684
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,680
pretty confident in the cash 
flow generation potential of the

685
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,040
project. 
But, you know, they're, they're 

686
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,880
candid and they talk about if 
you even read their kind of AGM 

687
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,480
addresses over the years, like 
they, they talk about, you know,

688
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,920
they recognise that the project 
has, is low grade and has 

689
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:29,640
impurities. 
Like they're, they're well aware

690
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:31,800
of all that sort of stuff. 
It's, yeah, it's not like a 

691
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:33,800
glowing, glowing review on that 
front. 

692
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,760
But they but you know, it's 
they're positive about its 

693
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,760
ability to make good free cash 
flow when optimistic about 

694
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:41,720
Munoz's prospects, too. 
Very good. 

695
00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:44,520
Now, now the cashbox Trav. 
What else have you got in the 

696
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,800
Cashbox box? 
The second one was Indiana 

697
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:49,480
Resources, a bit different to 
Red Heel. 

698
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,280
They didn't become a cashbox by 
selling a project for a lot of 

699
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,880
money. 
Instead they they had their 

700
00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:00,640
project expropriated by the 
Tanzanian government and in a 

701
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,080
lengthy arbitration process, the
courts have ruled, you know, 

702
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,240
that, that they're in favour of 
getting a healthy payout. 

703
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,600
There's US $90 million 
settlement owed to the 

704
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,680
claimants, of which 60 million 
has been paid so far. 

705
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,720
The final 30 million is to be 
paid by 30 March next year. 

706
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:24,880
Indiana said that their, their 
cash balance as of Friday last 

707
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,200
week was was $48 million in 
Australian dollars. 

708
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:29,920
So what they're doing is they're
paying out a special dividend 

709
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,480
that accounts for 32.6 million 
bucks and you know, hence 

710
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,600
retaining a cash balance of of 
15.4 million. 

711
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,720
Speaking with some shareholders,
they, they kind of have high 

712
00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:45,840
expectations that there'll be a 
decent distribution at the back 

713
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,160
end once that kind of final 
payment is made as well, you 

714
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:52,680
know, to so, so let's hope 
shareholders get what they're 

715
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:54,280
they're hoping for in that 
front. 

716
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:58,920
And there is like a, a healthy 
second distribution in, in due 

717
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:00,960
course. 
If you, if you look at both Red 

718
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,800
Hill and Indiana, both of these 
sort of cashbox companies, they,

719
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,400
they have a separate expiration 
agenda that they're trying to 

720
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,960
pursue. 
One of them is able to 

721
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:11,280
consistently fund that with the 
royalty. 

722
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:15,320
But you know, if you just look 
at the the the two exploration 

723
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,720
agendas, you know, Red Hills 
team, at least with some 

724
00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:21,400
discoveries, have a few more 
runs on the board with their 

725
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:25,320
greenfields exploration though 
versus Indiana, but interesting 

726
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:26,760
nonetheless. 
Their share price was flat 

727
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:28,280
today. 
Very nice trap. 

728
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,120
Good digging mate. 
Would never find that if you 

729
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,560
paid me for. 
It that that is a Jeremy rapper 

730
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:35,080
company. 
That's why it's on my agenda. 

731
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:37,400
An interesting one. 
Right. 

732
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:42,120
But news out a update from 
Resolute on the back of last 

733
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:46,720
week with the detainee of the 
seat with three employees, one 

734
00:38:46,720 --> 00:38:49,280
being the CEO in Mali. 
What is going on? 

735
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,320
Yes, we got an update today, 
Maddie from from Resolute. 

736
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:56,200
They went into a trading halt a 
few days ago pending the update 

737
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,320
that we saw this morning. 
Unfortunately, the three 

738
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:02,720
employees still being detained, 
Resolute reported that they're, 

739
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,200
they're safe and and all is 
well, but hopefully they are 

740
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,040
released shortly. 
But Resolute, the company has 

741
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,040
signed an MOU with the 
government of Mali. 

742
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:15,320
So there's a protocol that will 
set out a framework to migrate 

743
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,800
their assets in Mali to the 2023
mining codes. 

744
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,080
That's the most recent mining 
code. 

745
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,240
There'll also be a couple 
payments totaling US $160 

746
00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:29,920
million. 
US one US 80 million is the 

747
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,960
initial payment that's already 
been made and that will settle 

748
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:37,520
all outstanding debts between 
Resolute and the government of 

749
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,920
Mali. 
So you'll see a further US $80 

750
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:41,560
million to be paid in the coming
months. 

751
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,680
And this will also be paid from 
the existing liquidity sources 

752
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:50,280
that Resolute say they've got. 
So just tapping into the the 

753
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,160
funds that they've got, Resolute
said that cash and bullion at 

754
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:55,360
the end of the last quarter of 
USA 188,000,000. 

755
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,280
So 80 million of that is gone. 
They also had US 43 million in 

756
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,920
drawn debt plus the company had 
140 million. 

757
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,000
This is all in US in external 
debt facilities. 

758
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,320
They were with Ned Bank and 
Citibank. 

759
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,920
I don't know about this, but I'd
be curious about the bank's kind

760
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,800
of positioning and lending any 
further cash. 

761
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,320
I don't know if they've got any 
sort of claims or can tell the 

762
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,400
company they don't want to, you 
know, if they want to pull that 

763
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,840
sort of financing for further 
cash to go in that's a sort of 

764
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,320
open ended. 
Kind of question, but is that 

765
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:33,320
140 undrawn that yeah, that US 
140 is undrawn. 

766
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,880
OK, Yeah. 
So not, not yet called upon. 

767
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:40,240
So that the company now has an 
$830 million in Aussie dollar 

768
00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:44,600
terms market cap net debt after 
the second payment assuming that

769
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,760
goes through in a few months 
time of US 15 ish millions, you 

770
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:52,080
can call it an EV of about $850 
million. 

771
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,320
So it's in an interesting 
position and the share price is 

772
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,480
less than half of what it was 
about a week ago trading in the 

773
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,520
off a couple percent on on the 
news today. 

774
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,400
So just looking into the the new
mining code and trying to get a 

775
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,440
feel for how things might look 
going forward. 

776
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,720
And you know, importantly, what 
resolute might do the decisions 

777
00:41:11,720 --> 00:41:15,560
they might kind of make. 
So the new mining code outlines 

778
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,520
a minimum 10% free carried 
interest plus the option to 

779
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,080
purchase a further 20% for the 
government. 

780
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,760
That is obviously and it's not 
yet clear on what terms you'd be

781
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:29,160
purchasing that extra 20% like 
in the cases, so. 

782
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,840
That's going up to 20% on top of
the 10. 

783
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,960
So to go to 30% total or to go 
to 20% total? 

784
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,400
Yeah. 
So that is how it will be for 

785
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,240
new projects in Mali with Siama.
There is already a 20% 

786
00:41:41,240 --> 00:41:44,760
government interest there, 
although they have another 

787
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:49,120
deposit sits at 35 kilometres 
away, Tabacaroni that provides 

788
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:53,800
oxide feed to Siama that is 90% 
resolute owned. 

789
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,000
So that might be the first spot 
we see a bit of change on in 

790
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:58,000
country. 
Yeah. 

791
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:02,280
So and as you said how who 
determines the price for the 

792
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:06,120
extra well 10% in that one, but 
other ones 20%? 

793
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:08,880
Yeah, it's kind of interesting. 
It's tough bartering. 

794
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:10,480
Yeah. 
And these are the sort of big, 

795
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:12,520
big talking points. 
There's also an obligation to 

796
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:17,040
give 5%, a further 5% to local 
Malian investors. 

797
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,840
Again, pretty ambiguous what 
sort of terms that would be on, 

798
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:23,640
but they they stand out as the 
big kind of talking points 

799
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:25,720
because a lot of these changes 
in the mining code, they're more

800
00:42:25,720 --> 00:42:28,280
applicable to new projects 
coming online. 

801
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,280
You're talking about tax 
holidays after you build a 

802
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,400
project, all those sorts of 
things. 

803
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:36,640
So for projects already in play,
you know, bearing in mind that 

804
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:39,520
they were under the assumption 
that they were grandfathered, 

805
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:40,880
that clearly hasn't been the 
case. 

806
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,200
There's a few more open ended 
kind of questions and it kind of

807
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:45,960
leads me to think what what is 
resolute going to do? 

808
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,520
What's what's the the sort of 
philosophy of the company going 

809
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,600
to be on investing further cash 
in country there. 

810
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:55,640
So they have expansion plans 
already underway. 

811
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:59,680
The Siama sulphide conversion 
plant is being constructed as we

812
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,640
speak scheduled to be 
commissioned in mid 2025. 

813
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,200
That was a $55 million CapEx 
project. 

814
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,880
This was the avenue to get Siama
from 210,000 ounces to 250 odd 

815
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:14,320
1000 oz and they'd already 
outlined plans to get themselves

816
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:18,320
up to that 400,000 oz per annum 
number at Siama. 

817
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,400
I I wouldn't be shocked if they 
sort of put those bigger 

818
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:28,120
expansion plans on ice, but 
it's, it's a kind of delicate 

819
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:29,480
position. 
You know, maybe Mali will be 

820
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:33,240
like, no, we want to see you 
continue to invest in country or

821
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:35,200
we'll put the squares on a bit 
tighter. 

822
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,600
So that's pure speculation on my
end. 

823
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,480
I don't really know. 
Resolute had sort of spoken 

824
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:42,360
about other growth projects. 
Obviously they're mining in 

825
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:46,480
Senegal as well. 
They have sort of advanced ish 

826
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:51,640
exploration projects in Guinea 
and they've also spoken about 

827
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,360
exploration in Cote d'Ivoire. 
So maybe those things, you know 

828
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,320
that it's a long process that 
these are exploration plays. 

829
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,560
We don't know where it goes. 
Maybe they look at sort of 

830
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:03,440
smaller scale given the sort of 
trading values of some of the 

831
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:05,440
peers. 
There's not heaps out there, but

832
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:07,880
I wouldn't be surprised if 
they're looking more at Cote 

833
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:11,920
d'Ivoire Ghana, places they 
think they might feel a bit 

834
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:13,560
safer in. 
That sort of said, they're not 

835
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:15,920
completely flush with cash at 
the minute. 

836
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,680
After there's, there's, there's 
something on the cash that 

837
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,200
you're missing there and that's 
there's a contingent payment 

838
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:25,720
that will be due to them upon 
the sale of of Ravenswood, which

839
00:44:25,720 --> 00:44:28,680
is expected Q1 next year. 
And I think it's like, it's like

840
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:30,240
100 million bucks or something 
like that. 

841
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,480
Yeah. 
So there's a fair bit of money 

842
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,080
coming in the door for them too.
But all accounts, this is a 

843
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,280
pretty fucking disastrous 
announcement in my opinion. 

844
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,480
Yeah. 
Like they've just been. 

845
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,000
Yeah. 
They've just like the government

846
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,560
has basically put the the knife 
to their throat, demanded more 

847
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,080
money and more ownership and 
they've gotten gotten their way.

848
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,280
And the the execs are still are 
still detained. 

849
00:44:52,720 --> 00:44:54,400
Yeah. 
It's a, it's a, it's a 

850
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:57,880
disastrous outcome, I think. 
And I'll be interested to know 

851
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:01,640
how quick the process would be 
to get CAT if they did choose to

852
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,560
sell. 
If Marley took up the option to 

853
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:06,960
buy the extra stake in the 
project, how long would it take 

854
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:08,480
for that cash to get into the 
door? 

855
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:13,120
What that process looks like? 
It's, it's very, very tough. 

856
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:16,880
It would also be interesting to 
see what, what the other 

857
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,160
companies in the country are 
going to do. 

858
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,800
You know, we, we saw the sort of
warning shots and some of them 

859
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,000
try to sort of play ball and 
write some cheques and stuff. 

860
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:28,000
But that barrack is operating in
a much bigger scale and they 

861
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,680
didn't kind of pay anywhere near
this much so. 

862
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,520
They paid it earlier, but. 
Exactly so. 

863
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:36,120
Is there something to read 
through there? 

864
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:39,400
Who knows? 
I mean, I saw with some media 

865
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:41,760
outlets sort of reporting this 
was a warning shot to Barrack, 

866
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:43,960
which is kind of interesting on 
the back of what had kind of 

867
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:46,560
happened. 
But what, what are you really to

868
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:47,920
do? 
You just got to keep on going. 

869
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:52,280
Once you've invested that sort 
of capital and do what you can 

870
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:54,960
work with the government, try 
and make it a sort of cordial 

871
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,680
relationship and beneficial to 
both parties. 

872
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,440
But if you just fly in the 
country and they they detain 

873
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:04,400
you, you know you're in a in a 
rock and a hard place. 

874
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:06,800
Yeah, I'd, yeah, I'd be 
interested enough. 

875
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:11,480
There was anything in the lead 
up if they were asking not as 

876
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:13,240
forcefully for money in the 
lead. 

877
00:46:13,240 --> 00:46:14,600
Up, well they absolutely were 
you. 

878
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,800
You go back and look at the 
quarterly report from Resolute 

879
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,200
and there's wording to to that 
effect. 

880
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,080
There is, you know, tough 
negotiations going on in Mali 

881
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,440
and Senegal as well. 
And, you know, we expect these 

882
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:30,200
discussions to continue, these 
challenges to kind of continue. 

883
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:34,320
So there were thing, you know, 
tax audits or whatever you like 

884
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:36,480
to call it, ongoing in the 
background. 

885
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:39,640
They could have been pretty 
forceful, who kind of knows. 

886
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:41,360
But obviously if you're if 
you're going to go in the 

887
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:43,720
country and you'll see you've 
got some sort of confidence that

888
00:46:43,720 --> 00:46:48,640
you're not going to be detained.
So yeah, it's a it's a very 

889
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:50,640
tough position. 
I'm sure that you know the 

890
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,400
company wouldn't want to really 
be operating there anymore, but 

891
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,000
it's not not really a viable 
option. 

892
00:46:57,840 --> 00:46:59,720
I'm not sure if you could really
sell this thing for anywhere 

893
00:46:59,720 --> 00:47:00,960
near what you think it might be 
worth. 

894
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:04,680
But you'd think with those 
expansions and everything like 

895
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,000
it's obviously in both sides 
best interests if those 

896
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:11,480
expansions go ahead and like if 
that expedites Mali taking 

897
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,040
acquiring a stake to give 
resolute the cash to then fund 

898
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:16,840
those expansions. 
Like that looks like a win win 

899
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:18,600
for both sides. 
But is it that simple? 

900
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:20,280
I don't know. 
Is it the best use of your 

901
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,880
capital as well to like to keep 
allocating your capital in a 

902
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:28,560
country where yeah, you've 
you're expropriating more of 

903
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:31,440
your resource? 
I suppose, but when you're when 

904
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:35,360
you're already there and you're 
already operating versus going 

905
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:39,160
to build or yeah, greenfields 
elsewhere that that's the way 

906
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:40,840
up. 
I imagine that's something out 

907
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,400
of different countries as much 
as possible, yeah. 

908
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:46,080
Every country is different 
though, so you got to you got to

909
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:48,480
weigh it up on its on its own 
sort of propositions. 

910
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:50,800
They don't want to paint all of 
the countries there with the 

911
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:53,120
with the same brush. 
A lot of them have operated in 

912
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:56,040
Africa and different countries, 
you know, sustainably for a for 

913
00:47:56,040 --> 00:48:00,320
a long period and and done well.
Mali is a particularly tough 

914
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,920
spot to operate and it's not not
gotten any better over the past 

915
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:05,840
few years. 
Was it good two years ago? 

916
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,920
But it it. 
It's been on a, on a downward 

917
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,400
trend and it wasn't, you know, 
stand out to start with. 

918
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:14,360
Yeah, that's how you kind of put
it. 

919
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:16,920
Yeah, yeah. 
Yeah. 

920
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:19,800
So I mean, just fingers crossed 
they they, they release the 

921
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:23,040
people and everyone is sort of 
safe and sound and we'll sort of

922
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:27,080
see where it goes from there. 
Drive the merchants or not? 

923
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:29,920
Bit of a sombre note to wrap it 
up on. 

924
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:32,000
Yeah, very much so. 
Oh God. 

925
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,480
Well, thank you to the partners.
It's hard to like after talking 

926
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:38,960
about that, just to put the 
energy into the partners, but 

927
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:43,480
that is a go team, go team. 
December 3rd as well. 

928
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:46,120
Remember it's up. 
Yeah, that's it. 

929
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,560
Down to the pub. 
Hook, JD and Trav up with some 

930
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:51,400
site visits for In Darba. 
Yes, Touch. 

931
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:52,200
Another good shout out. 
I don't. 

932
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,480
Want to go to Mali though. 
Or the conga, no. 

933
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:57,160
Kids go to DRC. 
Definitely. 

934
00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:58,040
Go on. 
Yeah, DRC. 

935
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,200
We're going, Yeah, yeah. 
That's actually, that's actually

936
00:49:00,240 --> 00:49:01,080
safe. 
Is it? 

937
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:01,600
Yeah, that's fine. 
Oh. 

938
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:05,320
Good on you. 
Anyway, we've got a couple 

939
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,200
partners of that. 
Stone site for West birth, 

940
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:11,600
mineral mining services, 
grounded cross boundary energy, 

941
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:16,720
same big ground support. 
CR sure it's catral, Dosa and 

942
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,880
Hoodoo money miners. 
Information contained in this 

943
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,640
episode of Money of Mine is of 
general nature only and does not

944
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,280
take into account the 
objectives, financial situation 

945
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:28,320
or needs of any particular 
person. 

946
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,680
Before making any investment 
decision, you should consult 

947
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:34,720
with your financial advisor and 
consider how appropriate the 

948
00:49:34,720 --> 00:49:38,400
advice is to your objectives, 
financial situation and needs.