Righto Money Waters, Welcome back to another week brought to
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news. The Australian government.
Oh Jesus Christ, we're getting political these days.
Holy snapping duck shit. It's a bit of a bit of a sad day
for the mining industry, I'd say.
Yeah, she's buddy. Talk about some potential
precedents being set for the future.
Maybe. Fucking lot happening.
Lot happening. We'll, we'll get it.
We're talking about the Bloody Mcfillimy's Regis project in New
South Wales, pretty much getting the foot put on it by the
environment environmental minister after they pretty much
did everything asked for him. So asked of them.
So crazy. Yeah.
So we're going to get right into that.
This will be the. This is the headline for the
day. Bloody.
Yeah. There's a lot of moving parts
here, JD. You've even got a bit of silver
chat. Yeah.
Good. Silver, I mean, it's a it's a
pretty similar story at at silver mines also in NSW also a
project that's not going to be going ahead anytime soon.
So I think we can wrap the, the two stories in and around each
other and then just have a good discussion about the, the
ramifications. I mean, you, you say perhaps a
precedent for the industry. Let's let's kind of hope not,
right? Yeah, God, we're literally
talking about everything in NSW. I've even got a sneaky one at
the back about antimony which is yeah another NSW 1 mate.
Fucking as a proud New South Welshman and we've won the State
of Origin but only God they could do better on the friggin
mining front. Far out driving me nuts.
I think that Antimony one has a strong bit of China about it.
Yeah, interesting to chat about it.
But it's in NSW, Yeah, anyway, anyway.
Yeah, Yeah. No, no, no, yeah.
It's where I cut my teeth, Jardo.
Right. Let's, let's get into it.
So Regis's, Mcfilmy's project, the, I think we've talked about
it a bit. It was, you know, going to be
their, their growth story you'd say, but you know, the DDFS sort
of come back with, you know, pretty hefty CapEx grade was
sort of, you know, it's like A1 gramme joby.
It's going to be a big operation.
They're going through a big process with getting all the
approvals for a lot of years. Then there's Section 10.
Come along. That was the I guess 3.
Four years ago, big. Overhang and effectively now the
environmental minister Tanya Plibersek has pretty much put a
foot on it and said parts of the project which are is essentially
where the TSF has to go. Tiling storage facility is can't
go there because of cultural significance of the land to a
set of traditional owners. But there's a lot to go through.
It's a lot. Of nuance.
Oh right, so for those who don't know this Mcfillummy's project,
this has they Regis actually bought this back in 2012 from
Newmont and Alkane. 150 million bucks all in shares at 4 bucks
20 a share. So the share price is now $1.60
today. PFS was done in 2017, DFS come
out this year 2024. So look at 7 million tonne per
annum operation for about I think average 187,000 oz a year.
You know, CapEx was sorted up in the billions.
It was one of those ones even at a, you know, high gold prices, a
bit of a lower IRR project. But for this project to if it
was ever gonna work it, you know, it has to all be in the
one spot and it doesn't it's not like a you can just truck a bit
up the road sort of thing. And but we're in a rising gold
price environment. So but this was this is just
really put a bit of a temporary, temporary Nile in the coffin,
unfortunately. Yeah, but look, shit load to go
through. So 'cause they went into Regis,
went into the trading halt on Friday morning bit after lunch
Sydney time, Yeah. And announcement out today
detailing that as we said, the Federal Minister for Environment
and Water, Tanya Plibersek, she was, she was appointed in June
2022. So she's bloody made a
declaration of protection over part of the approved Mcfillimmys
Gold project, which applies primarily to freehold land
ultimately owned by Regis but under section 10 of the
Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Heritage Protection
Act. So pretty much where that TFTSF
scan can't put it there because of these, I guess the start of
these, this river, the river's name.
And this game is like a huge surprise to everyone, including
Regis, who who had a call today to sort of brief everybody about
this. I mean, this project had already
been assessed and approved under both state and Commonwealth
legislation. So this, this announcement sort
of over the weekend from Minister Plibersex essentially
overridden conclusions that were already made at those state and
federal levels, including her own office.
Yeah. The first part that comes
through earlier last year was the IPCI think Independent
Planning Commission. So that went through that whole
process that was approved. Then you had the EPGEPBC Yep,
part of it, which was actually which was approved by you guess
the the head of NSW and ICT environment and water, which is
actually a, you know, part of blipper second Chris Bowen's
body division. So they've they've actually
approved it, but then she's come in now and actually just shit
canned the whole thing effectively, but claiming that
this will not stop the mine. Just saying they have to find a
another location for the TSF. But if it was that friggin
simple, you'd do it like Jim by went through in the call about
you can't just move it like that.
That area for the TSF being assessed like geotechnically,
water floor and fauna safety and everything is the most
appropriate place for that TSF. And to go through the whole
process again of finding another spot for approvals is like
essentially another five to 10 years.
So it just ain't that simple. It might be to someone, to the
government, but practically it just doesn't work like that.
Yeah, we can. We can keep that IPC in mind.
They'll they'll come into play with the the silver mines story
in a little bit as well. And to wrap a bit more kind of
narrative around a lot of people asking, you know, why can't you
just sort of fence off this area if it if it is like that on on
the call. And just for people wondering
why or what the answer to that might be, it is essentially the
whole tailings area. There is no way around this.
Interesting looking at the like, you can't help but look at the
political side of thing of this, because when one person just
puts a foot down, you got to look at the history of it.
So this Tanya Plibersek, Minister Plibersek seems like
there's been a bit of done a bit of both and Create had a bit of
backlash last year because she actually in terms of blocking
mines because she blocked Clive Palm as that central QLD coal
project in 2023, citing potential pollution of the Great
Barrier Reef, which is 10 KS away.
Also rejected another two coal mines in central QLD last year.
But she also approved 4 coal mines last year.
But as a result of that, she and the two companies that she
approved and for Whitehaven and Mack were then taken to the
Federal Court by this Central Environmental Council of Central
QLD. Regarding the expansion of the
the Narrabri underground and the Mount Pleasant mine, both in
NSW, They'll sort, they're talking about Great Barrier Reef
protection, but those mines are in NSW, so I can't figure that
one out. And then she also approved 151
coal seam gas wells in Queensland this year for the
Cenex Atlas project, which is Gina Rinehart backed.
So whatever's going on here after like, you know, approving
that thing, going to court and then not approving ones, it's
like what is actually happening, especially considering leading
into a federal election either at the end of this year or the
start of next year. So not consistent as we said.
No. And I mean even like looking at
the the the media release from the the IPC, this is from a from
a state level back in March of last year.
It says the Commission finds that on balance, the project
this is Macphillum is is in the public interest and the
application is consistent with the objectives of the
Environmental Planning and Assessment Act.
And that the Commission noted found that the positive impacts
resulting from the project, including employment, training,
investment and additional economic activity will outweigh
the negative impacts. So, and then you've had the the,
the further approval here from the Department of Climate
Change, Energy, Environment and Water as well also proved May of
last year. That's the sub one under bloody
the the ministers for that are Plibersec and Chris Bowen.
Yeah, yeah. And like, and you look at it
there, it says like decision approved controlling provision,
listed threatened species and communities and signed off by
the branch head for environmental assessments in NSW
and ICT. And I think I think there was a
mention in the Regis announcement here, what they're
citing now wasn't even talked about or mentioned as part of
the whole approval process prior to this.
This has just come out now. Yeah, from what I remember.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you spot on. Maddie.
I can read a little snippet from the announcement that kind of
relates to that one, the referral made by Regis under the
EPBC Act, including an assessment on Aboriginal
cultural heritage, which at the time the Minister's delegate did
not note as a point of concern for the project.
Like back in the like the Section 10 back in October 2020,
like as we said, this was they deemed like that any potential
harm to Aboriginal heritage can be acceptably managed through
conditions of consent. It was assessed and approved in
May 2023 by the by the delegate delegate.
And then you had the Orange local Aboriginal Land Council
were engaged in the process and they're the actual and we'll get
to this bit. They're the actual statutory.
They hold the legal authority to speak for this.
Land that part, that part of the land.
And then so the the traditional owners that they're talking
about today are actually different.
They're not part of that orange one.
I think these ones are closer to to Bathurst.
So it's like a different set of traditional owners that have
like, you know, laid claim to this being of cultural
significance. Like to my understanding,
there's no like actual like physical artefacts or, or
anything that it is just like a cultural significance.
So Regis are essentially claiming that, you know, the,
the decision by the minister is essentially unprecedented 'cause
it's like contradicts both the EPBC and the IPC approval
process that was done by our own department, the EPBC.
And it's just vetoed them the whole thing.
And it's, it's worth tying into that, Maddie, that they were
pretty eager on the call to stress that this is freehold
land, essentially land owned by Regis, which is, you know, used
for, for grazing cattle and whatnot, as it has been for a
couple 100 years now. It's not Crown land.
That was just something that really stuck out from the, you
know, from the call today. Yeah.
So essentially cattle have been eating there and shitting in
that river for bloody hundreds of years.
And this, this what they've put in place today.
And the the way it seems like the way and Jim mentioned it on
the call, the way they interpret it that even now what because of
this, you can't even have cattle on the land, which has been been
there for ages, hundreds of years.
You can't do you can't even essentially got to fence it off
and protect it. So it was all, all on the basis
of the, the mining side. So and that's setting a
precedent for I know. And look, we talked about like
last year when that was potentially we're going down
this road in WA about the whole, what was it like the traditional
owner approvals for everything, which could have applied for
bloody farmers and, and everything to get all these
surveys done. And like, this is essentially
pretty similar. Yeah.
What what's happening here? So because like, this land is
owned by owned by Regis. So yeah, buddy.
Oh, so it's, we're fucking learning a lot at the moment.
JC Learning. A lot talking.
About politics, politics, I never paid an interest till I
did this. And this is, interestingly, on
the back of just recently, the whole Jabiluka thing.
As well, Yeah. Very only a couple of weeks ago,
like bloody putting their foot on that side.
Now that's going into Kakadu National Park.
We're just making the decision right now and there's another
questions about who is actually being properly engaged in this
process. And who is the right people to
engage as part of this process? Because I think one one comment,
which which is quite important is this is not so much an
argument of, you know, whether a site is sacred and should be
protected. We're all for responsible
mining, doing things the right way and working collectively
with the traditional owners. This is more so a discussion
about the process. How can you say this is OK and
approved and then it's not? That's what I don't understand.
If this was identified as part of these, these processes that
are set up by the government, say, hey, look, I know we've
identified a few sites for ATSF, but this is not one that you can
do. Regis would have then, you know,
done the work to, you know, advance other alternatives at
that time. But that's already been and gone
now. So why are we talking about that
now? Again, I'm just, I'm also
confused if there's this, there's a process that's been
followed and you know, supposedly the right parties
have been engaged, consulted as they should and then this has
happened. I just don't understand.
MMM and and cause the the were were Rogery people that she's
cited as the you know, the T OS that she's engaged with here.
But it sounds like then this orange local Aboriginal land
council that were the people that Regis were engaged with.
I'm not not sure if this the were Rajory people were if Regis
engaged with them or they didn't know that they were gonna claim
ownership of that part of the land.
Like to say like. Yeah, they couldn't.
Sounds like like Regis could not have done any more than they
possibly could have done in terms of very much following the
regular true process. And.
That's that's super well said, Ally.
Yeah, I totally agree with what you've said there.
And I'll, I'll put a pin on it 'cause I think we can chat about
it more after the, the silver mines 'cause I think there's
heaps of comments to be made about the the process.
I just add that readers still don't have a heap of
information. They're they're still waiting on
the, you know, sort of quote unquote official ruling or
whatever it's called from the government to understand what
exactly is gone down and what they can do going on forward
from here. Because you look at the, I guess
we'd say the site, the impact of it, the social and economic
impact. So they're saying 500 and 80
full time jobs in construction, around 290 when in production,
about 200 million bucks worth of state royalties to the state.
The directed indirect benefits it can provide to local
indigenous communities benefits and opportunities to local
businesses, local communities like You can just see the impact
that a decision from 1 politician can have a. 100% and
you even had the the head of a MEC, Warren Pierce sort of
echoed these comments as well in an Amex statement.
And it was also in the AFR around the decision sort of
claiming that sort of, as we discussed before, Indigenous
groups in NSW had differing views about the significance of
the side question if the right people had been listened to.
And as Warren said, this decision affects the local
community of Blaney. The traditional owners and the
mining industry described it as a lose, lose, lose situation.
That's when it's 3 + 3 + 1 = 1. -5 or.
Something it's it's three. So yeah, anyway, this has been
going on for frigging years. Like as you said, asset purchase
in 2012, PFS from 2017, a bits. A bits happened since 2017.
I mean, Trump has been and gone, COVID has been gone, Brexit has
happened. You were still on the jumbo.
I was just learning the jumbo. You were just learning the
jumbo. Me and JD were young
whippersnappers at Argonaut still.
I mean a lot's happened since then compared to other sort of
major projects and their approvals in Australia as well.
So guys, sort of taking all that information in, what do you
think this ultimately means for Regis going forward with
Mcfillemys? The the first thing that kinda
springs to mind and I mean we're, we're at 2024 now this
investment was made in 2012 a $150 million.
Of course it was in in script like, yeah, you guys said at the
beginning there. But it doesn't scream out as a
stellar investment. And, you know, was this project
really going to go ahead? We can kind of have another
debate about that. We we spoke about this when the
DFS came out and the numbers didn't look too good just a
month or so ago. What do you reckon, Maddie?
Oh, and it look, it's to the point it's like nearly the
project is irrelevant in this this story today in terms of
just the whole process and the precedents it sets.
Like it's heavily wided to. I guess to say it's a a poor
investment is sort of impacted by the fact of how long the
approvals and how difficult it's been and the time and money
they've had to spend on that side of things that it sounds
like was fucking out of their control.
Absolutely agreed. Yeah.
Yeah, but, and I do agree it's like, and we'll get into the
like what other options they've got, but it just looks like this
project is for it to work, it has to all be there.
It has to probably all go right. It has to like there's a, there
is issues with it in terms of like it's a 0 discharge.
So that's a lot of capital has to go into, you know, ponds and
can't just like run water out of it.
What they went, they went through all that to try and
like, and it's a, you know, it's a big capital investment, but
potentially, potentially long life and you might make your
money back from it eventually. But it's, it seemed to has to be
done this way to work. So yeah, it's why they could
have got the weather dependent on the bloody gold price and how
they fund it. And if there's bloody hedging in
place, determines whether they're going to whether it'd be
a very profitable operation at the moment.
But yes, it wasn't a wasn't screaming out as a like a a low
risk play? No.
But that's low risk from an operational standpoint, right?
Yeah, yeah. So I guess they're two separate
issues in a way. Yeah.
And even like financially, right as as you said JD, you know, I
think a lot of people out in the market sort of discounted
Mcfillimy's as a true growth option for for Regis on the on
the basis of, you know, financials at least anyway.
I mean consensus NAV for Mcfillimy's was about $0.20 or
$150 million, which is about 12% of Regis's market cap.
And you know finally that Regis Mcfeely contributes about 60% of
Regis's reserve. So, but I think there could be
as as difficult as as A and shocking of the news as this is,
you could see it as a silver lining for Regis.
I mean, given the sort of the financial and the operational
elements, you know, was it better for Regis to go, hey,
we've done the work and we've actually got more interesting
and attractive options over here.
So we're going to kill this one or have the government kill it
for you to give, to give you a good sort of, you know, not
excuse, but a reason to focus your attention elsewhere rather
than making that call themselves.
Yeah. And it's, it's a go, it's a gold
price bet. Like, you know, if gold's bloody
4000 bucks an ounce by the time this is mined and they haven't
got too much hedging commitments.
And you know, they probably would make good money out of it
just because of the because of the scale of it.
But it's like, you know, a billion dollars worth of CapEx
to get it there. And and a lot of that CapEx is
tied up in what the water pipeline to get the sufficient
amount of water there to well, I think it was about 100 odd mil.
And then as I said, the ponds because of the 0 discharge the
mill like that there was about 6 or 700 million just in that sort
of key infrastructure to process it and maintain the site.
So that's what the question is right.
Is there any other option outside of this because this
comes back to the hole. It sounds like it's freaking.
It is becoming increasingly difficult, and in this case near
impossible, to build and permit processing plant.
Even if you do. It by the book in Australia.
So it's it's like the only one the only one near there is
Cadia. It's about 40 or probably 5040
to 50 KS away. You know, big 36 million tonne
per annum plant owned by Newmont.
Look would could Regis bloody just they it sounds like they
could mine this mine. They just can't put ATSF in
there, which means you can't put a mill in.
Could they actually mine it truck it bloody 50 KS.
If you negate, you know, half a billion dollars worth of CapEx
to do that, would that work? I think with the sounds like
they'd still have to put in a lot of that pond infrastructure
'cause it's a 0 discharge site, 1 gramme dirt tracking it 50 KS
probably too small for a bloody Newmont to even consider.
So it's probably just the economics just don't really add
up. It just as I said before, it
sounds like if this operation was gonna work, it has to be all
in the same spot run efficiently on a big scale to actually bring
in the chalkies. So it's they're very they're
essentially being they're on hold until there's a bloody
either doesn't look like there's going to be a backflip on the
decision from this government. They're literally be hoping for,
like they said, they're going to go down the legal route with it.
But it'd either have to be a change in government that would
actually put this throat or something in the High Court to
actually overturn it. Which gigs you'd be bloody.
That could take freaking years. Yeah.
And I guess so. I mean, what's what's next?
I mean, there was sort of a lot of questions on the call today
with with Jim about sort of, you know, as how does you know,
capital get reallocated potentially from, you know,
Mcfillimmys to their other sites and things like that.
But they're I think they're just trying to understand the
situation themselves and get some sort of definitive plan and
timing on what this actually means full of them.
But you know, of course we can, we can certainly speculate about
what what that means for them next.
I think my conclusion is it's pretty much put an L in the
coffin for their growth project, whether you believed in it as a
growth project or not. They are even more desperate for
for something outside of you know, Dukeden and Tropicana.
What it could be, I don't know. Is it, is it organic?
Is it more work at, you know, Dukeden, you know, that is their
only asset that they operate. Tropicana they've got a non
operating interest in. Do they do something inorganic?
You know, do they buy something in and around their area or
around that Laverton, Leonora region?
Who knows? Yeah, God, that bloody God.
They could buy a spa, but that's like fuck, that's like 1 1/2
billion dollars there. So and then you've got to put
the capital in as well for the for the mill and everything.
So it's like, yeah, there, this is definitely the right, the
right disco Cos this is not going to be a like if it did get
overturned or whatever, like that's years down the road.
Well, after the time they need the friggin gold.
But even if it was overturned, you'd think like, what's the,
what's the chance like something like this could happen again and
not just within, you know, we'll probably touch on a bit more
later, not just within regions portfolio, but other companies
portfolios as well. It does.
It does make you a little nervous.
Yeah. So it's like I think the whole.
Even if you are trying to do the right.
Thing what's been thrown around Gold Rd's, the one that keeps
getting thrown around for Regis tying up with them.
As I said, whether something around that Laverton district.
We run the ruler over Bloody Magnetic the other week and that
doesn't look like the most that's that's two years away if
someone decides to mine that 'cause it's hasn't even got a
mining licence yet. No it doesn't.
It needs a bit more work. So unless it's something L's
pretty bloody left field. JDJBD you got any bloody punts
on you? Well, Jim seemed pretty fed up
with Australia and its entirety, so I wonder.
If you don't blame him. Looking overseas, the other
thing I'd add to your comments earlier, Ali on the NAV,
obviously you know consensus we're quoting there comes from
the sell side calling it kind of 12% of the market cap for 150
million bucks. It's interesting to parallel
that with the share price today. It's it's flat the, you know,
the buyers of the owners of the stock clearly didn't attribute
too much value to Mcphillimy's. So you know, that kind of bodes
with what we'd said about it in, you know, on the back of your
analysis of all the undeveloped projects out there and then
going back a little bit before that on the back of the DFS as
well. Yes, on a on a more positive
note, CRE insurance let's make that isn't positive, that's just
more positive. Holy snap and duck shit.
I never thought I'd I'd think of Africa as a mining jurisdiction
to be similar to Australia. It's bloody similar parallels
today. Since Australia's becoming like
Africa due to the police like CR ES, African insurance expertise
is going to be bloody handy for this Australian mining industry
going forward. Bloody JD, you heard about the
offer? Mate inform me and all the money
miners please. Any of these mining companies
out there that just just feel a bit bloody, they're a bit risky
adverse, give a give bloody Dave Adam or Atari a bloody call from
CRE. They'll do a free audit on your
existing insurance that you have in place.
So if you've got any gaps or exposures that you might not
even know about, that's awesome for free.
And you just take it and say cheers lads.
That's the bloody mate. Caught up with them last week.
I've vetted them as JCS Jesus Christ, I know insurance.
I've never been so interested in insurance in my life.
I love it, love insurance. Oh, I got got a couple extra car
policies last week. I'll just I've got the bug so in
about to take a look for you phone numbers in the show notes
and one of the owners picks up. Go.
CRE Love it JD. Another interesting Regency
style story. Silver Bonds.
No, it's let's not keep the good times going.
The company, just the company. So SPL on the ASX, so similar
like you say to, to Regis mate, also in New South Wales and also
a kind of project that won't be going ahead anytime soon.
We'll start this one up by flashing up the spark chart to
people can get a feel. And here, you know, what you
really notice straight away is a massive Candlestick down and the
risk of being a single asset company.
That's where Regis has a, you know, a bit of a saving grace.
So they have lost over 60% of their market cap in a couple
months. They lost you know about 50% of
that market cap in a couple days.
So they're around a $250 million company just last week and
they're now sort of 120 million ish market cap company.
Yeah, right, buddy. So what's what's actually what's
the sequence of events here, JD? So I'll give you a bit of the
sort of legalese type first to talk through what's happened in
the courts and then we'll give a bit of background on what's
actually happened. But essentially early last week,
they came in saying we're going to get our, you know, an update
on these proceedings that have been going on for a few months
now. And on Friday they went into a
trading halt and then came out with what had actually happened.
So they've got this group called Bingman.
They had essentially been challenging the development
consent, which is essentially their right to get development
underway for the the project. Where in this project it's also
down similar area is it JD? Down near Mudgee, isn't it?
Yeah, exactly. So 30 KS from Mudgee, 260 odd KS
from Sydney. Yeah.
So we'll, we'll Chuck up a map
and people can, can have a look. Now, I said that IPC group, the
Independent Planning Commission, before now they were involved
here because that's who Bingman was challenging as well as, you
know, silver mines in the same sort of process.
And you know, lo and behold, the appeal comes through and the
court has upheld the challenge put forward by Bingman.
And what this essentially means is that silver mines cannot
develop the project. They need to go back to the
drawing board. But to to get into the details
of what has actually gone on here and what the kind of point
of debate is, I think it's worth fleshing out what the project is
all about. Because similar to what we've
just spoken about before with Regis, you're in, you're in
farming country, you've got towns nearby.
It's not like in the, in the Outback in WA, there's, there's
a bit more to it. It's rolling kind of countryside
and we're talking about a silver mine with a lead zinc byproduct.
So that lead byproduct was a a point of debate amongst the the
local community there, although that isn't actually what you
know, ultimately stops the the the project from going forward
on Friday all. Right.
So give us what's the what's been the timeline so far, how
it's gone? So kind of like Mick Philomy's
this has taken ages to you know go through all the steps in 2018
feasibility study came out, the EIS was completed and
development application was submitted in mid 2020.
State approvals came through in April of 23, so last year and
they were going to launch, you know their final investment
decision later this year. So they were they were pretty
far along. And then you get this appeal in
in March and silver mines win that appeal to start with,
although or they they win the initial proceedings and then
Bingman come in and appeal it. And that's what's you know,
Chuck to spanner in the works just on on Friday to give a bit
of. Detail Who is actually this
Bingman group? Who are they?
Thanks for breaking me up, Ali. They're, they're a group that
came around in the in the 90s. They're, they're a group that's
sort of local to the region there.
And what they're kind of putting forward is that the, the
potential environmental and, and health disasters that kind of
relates to lead and all these, you know, other aspects of the
mine dust and so on would hamper the, the farming nature of the
region as well as the tourism in the region.
But it's, it's much more of like a kind of technicality on why
the project isn't going forward. They put this environmental
impact statement forward in, in 2020, like I said, but they
didn't include this transmission line.
So there's this 13 kilometre transmission line and that
wasn't included in the assessment.
And then the the Supreme Court Justice has come out and said,
you can't go forward with this because the plan of what you
actually want to do doesn't include that transmission line.
And one way or another, whether it's positive or negative, that
transmission line is going to have an impact.
So that previous ruling is, you know, to no effect.
And here we are the the company's share price is halved.
They're going to speak with their lawyers and all these
things. And then on the flip side,
you've got the group that you just raised their alley talking
about like, hey, this isn't really what we actually wanted,
but we'll take the win. You know, and you know, to be
clear, it's it's not done and dusted because these guys could
potentially still look at other power options.
But kind of like Jim was saying at Regis that that is a lengthy
process. You know it takes ages to
knuckle down on on what you want and the plan you want to put
forward. To ultimately decide and to
reject that whole plan can take years.
It's interesting. It's power lines, the things
that have squashed it. Considering how many fucking
power lines are going to go in for all these renewable plans,
Sure, we have the bloody state through all these transmission
corridors they've got to put in to make this whole renewable
thing work. So it just completely
contradicts that. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I I don't. Think this one.
Those haven't hit me up. Yet I, I don't think this one,
Maddie is, is as grim as what you went through with Regis.
I think there's, there's still options, but you're in a you're
in a rock and a very hard place. They're picking between to
pretty bad outcomes for for these mining companies.
Yeah, I don't know the best. I like silver mines.
What's that? Well, the best thing about mine
and silver, it's the same colour as these.
Check these out. That's a TSI.
Bolt a bloody DSI friction bolt and a DSI posi mix bolt but
bloody sent to us. They're silver.
They're silver in colour. These these look like some of
the bolts I tried to put in like after.
A back in the day get the. Fuck out of them and then
snapped them off and there just wasn't much left.
Bloody, bloody brilliant. If you think, if you think
silver, you think DSI. You know why?
What is that? Silver is like gold.
It's a safe haven DSI. It is the safe haven for ground
support supply. Mate, do you know silver is also
the best conductor of electricity as out of all the
metals? Oh, better than copper, better
than bloody aluminium. It is the best.
Just like DSI is the best ground support supplier in the world.
All exactly the same. Don't think Silver, think DSI.
Think the best. Think the.
Best cheers for the donation there.
Love it. Oh God, we got to put some
bloody. That's why we've got to have
bloody sponsors. We've got to bring some
positivity to the mining industry.
Fuck me dead God, that's that's what the economy's backed on.
Hopefully the mining companies can bring the positivity next
time, Maddie, But I think we should get into a bit of
discussion. I've, I've spoken about, you
know, enough what has actually happened specifically.
But I think it's sort of time to to wrap the two together and
have a bit of a yarn about what this kind of means.
And I know you've sort of spun up some thoughts about
investment, you know, investor confidence in Australia.
Would that be, you know, foreign direct investment or just local
funds and whatnot, look into the mining industry.
What have you sort of come to on on that front?
Well, I think we'll probably quote old Warren Pearce from
AMEC, who's obviously Amec do a bloody shit load for the mining
industry and with this sort of stuff as the, I guess the, you'd
say, they're industry body. They're an industry body, the
middleman. So they're bloody heavily
involved in this and they do a lot of bloody good work.
Forgive them for not giving us the award that at that ceremony
they outweighed that boy getting involved in this.
So this is what Warren Pierce said.
So this is incredibly disappointing decision.
This is in regard to Regis incredibly disappointing
decision that lacks reason and common sense and sets a truly
terrible precedent for investment risk in Australia.
If any project, no matter how thoroughly consulted,
negotiated, supported NSS can be knocked over by the objections
of only a few people and at the end of the process, then how can
any company or investor have confidence to invest in
Australia? So as he said, like one like 1
government official in this case of Regis has contradicted the
entire approval process buy and just put a foot down.
And it arguably under parallels to friggin it feels like we're
in North Korea or Congo or bloody Sierra Leone at the
moment. Fuck me.
Like to think that you'd, you'd class Australia to have
sovereign risk due to like approvals and permits is friggin
absurd. With mining's the like the
biggest contributor to our economy.
It's it's just mad. Yeah, I just think it's friggin
mad. So what do you what do you
think, Jada? Mate, I, I couldn't agree more.
I think talking about mining investment in, in Australia, in,
in NSW specifically, I mean, there were so many fascinating
call outs in the call put on by Regis.
And it was interesting the, the concern they had about operating
projects and it was very raw, you know, the, the core, it's
obviously been a, a very busy weekend for the guys there.
But the, the concerns they had about projects already in
operation, who knows? You know, like I said, they
haven't got the official docs and all that sort of stuff.
So maybe we'll sort of reserve our judgement on that front.
But if this throws into risk projects that are operating that
have been operating for a number of years, then I think it's a
sort of serious cause for alarm. And I mean, we, we need to look
at this whole process. I think that's the the takeaway
from our discussion today for both these sorts of companies
like these are processes that take years and years and years
already way too long. What gives anyone the the
confidence to go forward with these once they receive the
approvals and then they can still have the project or the,
the approvals or the permits or whatever it might be.
There's so many different angles to it pulled off them.
Who's going to come and and do business in Australia?
Yeah, and and I'll just I'd hate to think that this like this on
the back of the Jabiluka thing and how abrupt all that stuff
was and the timing. I'd hate to think this is actual
just political gamesmanship going into an election.
Like just. For.
Strategy and I wouldn't fucking be surprised what these bloody
clowns get up to and like, but the, the work that goes in by
these mining companies, which is, you know, fucking funded by,
you know, operations, but shareholder money as well.
And the time that goes into these processes and then they
friggin treat it like this is that fucking disrespectful and
demeaning to the to the mining companies that fucking work
tirelessly. And they're coming from people
that have got no friggin mining or business experience at all
running the country. Drives me fucking nuts.
What we spoke about Nimb ISM in, in the Western world and we
spoke about it in the context of Serbia not too long ago and
Canada before that. It's a, it's a similar story in,
in so many different countries. And we've spoken about it with
various guests on the show in every single nook of the, you
know, the, the so called Western world.
And obviously every project shouldn't be developed.
There should be a rigorous approvals process to get
projects online, but you shouldn't have a small minority
of people over ruling projects that have already received their
approvals processes because it can shatter the investment
confidence. And you know that that might
happen bit by bit. You might chip away at that
investor confidence slowly, but all of a sudden, you know,
you've wasted so much capital, so much human capital, so much
energy and time from, from people that it just, you know,
I'm a bit perplexed by the whole thing.
It's, it's super frustrating. And I think the pro, the
processing approvals, you know, timeline needs a, a serious
reassessment in Australia. I mean, look at, look at the,
the NSW government royalties and, and what they've kind of
done on that front. Mining brings in $6 billion in,
in royalties in NSW alone. Now 90% of that comes from coal
projects. And you know, they've again been
increased from the 1st of July 2024.
That's not specifically what I want to talk about here.
But the, the repercussions of this, you know, it, it shortens
the life, it, it lifts them on the, the cost curve, it makes
them a bit more uneconomic. And, you know, maybe it's, it's
right to have them adjusted over time, you know, with inflation
and all these short sort of things.
But it gives a, a sugar hit to the government.
It, it gives a bit of a, a sugar hit, but it, it puts into
question all the, the jobs, you know, 40,000 people in New South
Wales are directly employed by mining, another 7000 people in
the supply chain. And whilst I think some of these
ministers think there isn't a serious repercussion or there
isn't a repercussion beyond just the the company they're talking
about, I think there actually is.
I think, you know, it's not just that company, it's not just
Regis in this case, it's not just silver mines, but it is all
the other, you know, the majors around in the world that might
look to come and invest in the state and the thing and hang on,
we might not do that. And that, you know, 6 billion of
royalties, I know hits of it comes from coal.
But sooner or later those projects will, will run out.
And that's going to be a big hole.
And like we, we probably don't even need to get into the, the
government debt that's exploded fourfold in NSW alone over the
past few years. But it is a key source of
revenue, royalties, taxation, income from the employees there
that has heaps and heaps of flow on effects that I just feel
haven't been totally taken into account in this scenario.
No, I agree with you, JD and even just Minister plebiscite's
comments about, oh, well, they've identified, you know, 4
four other options for a, for a TSF to put there.
So it's just move the TSFI think that's sort of what come across
in that statement is a bit of ignorance.
Oh, just move the TSF and it's sort of, it's, I'm not, you
know, affecting the mind like it's fine.
It's sort of like, well, actually there's a lot more
involved than just moving the TSF and for all the reasons Jim
outlined in his call that it's not just that straightforward.
There's just, I don't know, a bit of seems a bit of ignorance
with respect to how this practically can impact a mine
site or the mining industry more broadly.
Yeah, complete ignorance. They wouldn't even know.
They probably know they would never have worked on a mine
site. And speaking about royalties,
JD, they need all the help they can get.
Look at all the royalties the government aren't getting from
the durries now since the vipes are coming.
Like that's we need the mining industry to bring the royalties
back because bloody champion Ruby ain't bloody getting sold
like it used to be. That's mate.
We could talk for hours about government debt, but I think we
should steer clear of that one for today.
All right, bit of a random one to finish on this is saw this.
Antimony. Yeah, antimony.
Saw this article in the last week that China are placing an
export ban on antimony. So antimony's widely used in
ammunition and other military applications.
I think it's flame retardant as well.
It's on the Australia's critical minerals list and it sparked my
attention because the first ever mine I worked at was the Hill
Grove mine near Armadale, NSW. It's a gold antimony mine.
It's the largest antimony deposit deposit in Australia at
this stage. And it recently got so I was
there when it was Straits, which then I think Straits went into
Eris got put on care and maintenance and sort of had a
had a bit of a like a pilot plan he set up sort of thing.
Recently got bought by Lavato resources who they that would
explore them for lithium down in bloody South of WA.
Recently bought the hill Grove mine and it's had a few few
people have a crack at this thing, but the antimony price,
I'll bring up a chart has doubled in the past few months.
So in La Voto, up 50% today on the news, they've got reserve
grades of 1.2% Stibnite and then you've also got Southern Cross
gold. That's the bolter, that's.
Been dealing with. Expiration down in Victoria.
So they've they're gold antimony as well.
So their results today are .9% and 1.7% Stibnite.
So Stibnite is the antimony mineral.
So it's amazing how one news article can come out and you
start looking at the grade of antimony just like that.
So no, that was interesting. Something that mineral that
never gets talked about, but it's doubled.
So and there's not many options for it in Australia.
So that's fine. Very interesting.
The only good news story come out of NSW.
Oh, that was good. It was bloody.
God, of course I was literally that was the first ever joined
on. So I'm walking around with two
left feet as per usual and oh, it's bloody.
Yes, I'll cause more harm than good there, no doubt.
It's a fucking pain in the ass. Sorry to all those people that I
worked with, shout out Jeremy Rowlands.
You know that is a is a fun fact.
The the Superintendent there, the foreman.
He was part of the rescue crew for Beaconsfield.
Oh, the the trap miners, Yeah. Oh wow, he got he assisted
getting the two guys out of there.
What a legend he was on the he was overseeing putting the pilot
hole in and everything. So.
Yeah. So.
Love getting a an insight into the young adulthood of Maddie
Michael. Back in the day.
Back is fucking. Cold there?
Yeah. It's only an hour and a half
from your hometown in Burrell. Oh, good on ya.
Hmm, OK, I might go back to get it going.
Sure, love. I'll get me on the jumbo there.
Go back down the D, Clyde. Oh, very good.
Alright, that's bloody. Bit more of a downbeat episode
to find something. So positive.
It's good to talk about. Tomorrow, but we're yeah, it's
downbeat, but we're fucking sticking up for the mining
industry. We're sticking up for Australia
too, mate, and Australia, hopefully things can sort of
come to their senses. Don't like getting too political
on the show and, you know, really want to talk about it
from a yeah. But you, you want to talk about
it from a, you know, a non partisan sense.
You want common sense in in government.
I don't care who's who's in power for that.
You just want, you know, policies and procedures that
make the most of the the time and effort and capital that gets
sunk into these things. You know what else is common
sense, JD? Using access mining technology,
Yeah. Pretty.
Great segment, top of the show. They're pretty much the anti
government. That just makes sense.
Yeah, yeah, that's it. A.
Common sense. Who else makes sense to you,
Jay? So ohh.
Mineral mining services. That's, yeah, a lot of sense
there. Verify obvious smack power and
technology. Did that make much sense to you
when you were getting? Explained.
Initially no, but now yes. DSI earlier in the show,
Silverstone CR insurance at the top of the show as well.
Greenlands equipment K drill and you spark.
Ohh Hodoro money miners. Hodoro.
Go Australia. Australia.
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or needs of any particular person.
Before making any investment decision, you should consult
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