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Buddy, mine is the Q&A episode 
that was asked for a couple of 

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weeks ago. 
It's here, it's here, and who 

3
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better to bloody be the partner 
for it than salt Bush 

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contracting mine? 
Doesn't that just make sense? 

5
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The bloody the turnkey bulk 
college site support. 

6
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They handle everything once you 
mind the orgy say. 

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Yeah, once that all all's out, 
they'll look after everything 

8
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for you, right? 
That anything you want they will

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Polish the ore for you. 
And just remember when a job is 

10
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too hard on your mind site, you 
get fucking saltbush to do it. 

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That is the saying you should 
have in your head. 

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Whether it's building a road 
bloody mind rehab equipment 

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hire. 
Why buy it when you can get some

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off saltbush? 
Go saltbush. 

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Well done salt, and do you 
remember the questions for this 

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bloody while ago? 
Yeah, No, there was a bit, we 

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had a a little bit on. 
I remember we talked about 

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copper, we talked a little bit 
about Indonesian mining. 

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I think we we talked about ore 
body geometry. 

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Oh, that's true. 
I learned a lot about that. 

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That was cool. 
Well. 

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The the intricacies of what's a 
good and bad geometry for for. 

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Underground plunge and all 
plunge. 

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All these fancy words. 
There was actually some finance 

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lingo as well for the non non 
financy people too. 

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I'm devastated that there was a 
lot of macro stuff and it's two 

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weeks too early because like I 
am now a macro guru. 

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After all, the Trump. 
Stuff and I feel like I'm not 

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going to be reflected accurately
in this video to what my prowess

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is at the moment, but I'll I'm 
happy to wear that so. 

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I did a good learning curve in 
the last two weeks, hasn't it? 

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Right now let's get into the Q&A
or we could just talk about K 

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Drill, that's I got you on the 
chapters there didn't. 

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I not just an. 
RC and diamond drilling company 

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JC Drilling the holes is the 
easy part in exploration. 

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It's creating the K drill 
culture that the bloody drillers

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want to work for, that the 
offsiders want to sweat their 

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guts out for. 
And who else to do it for than 

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00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,400
Ryan O'Sullivan? 
He is the man that people want 

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to work for. 
And especially in this WA hate 

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we've been experiencing this 
summer, you know, so far, I 

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mean, that's a lot of sweat. 
Mate, you wouldn't do it for 

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anyone, but like the only way to
possibly become as good of a 

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driller, a manager and a bloke 
as Ryan O'Sullivan is to work 

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for Ron O'Sullivan. 
You might get close if you're 

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exposed to him. 
Just go help Kaydrill keep the 

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mining industry alive faster and
diamond experts. 

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Go Kaydrill. 
And just people, experts, 

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righto, we'll get into it now. 
Righto Muddy 1 is. 

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We asked you asked and we're 
about to answer. 

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That's that was the process. 
We asked for Q&A. 

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Users have given us Q and AJ CS 
gonna run AQ and. 

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A Let's. 
See how good's that? 

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No thanks to all the money 
miners that submitted a whole 

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bunch of different questions to 
us during the way. 

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Thank you for that. 
We've taken the time, I've taken

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the time to whittled them down 
to a few that we're gonna ask 

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the ask the time, all sorts of 
topics and companies, 

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commodities, the shit that's 
happening in general. 

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Please tell me there was a 
question about your stock 

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holdings. 
You know what? 

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There wasn't, and I'm so glad 
that gets talked about enough. 

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Ali's got all the power, though.
We wouldn't even know. 

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Oh yeah, we've gotta go through,
back through and check those. 

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You've intentionally withheld 
these questions from us, so 

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we're. 
Yes and so yeah, you guys 

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haven't seen the questions so 
it'll be your your first crack 

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at em so. 
This exposes me, Jason. 

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Now you'll be all right. 
You'll be all right. 

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I can still edit the video true.
Thank fuck for that. 

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So let's let's kick things off. 
So we had James and Aisha from 

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Twitter who asked about and 
actually a few others who asked 

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about what you guys think about 
the outlook for copper in the 

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sort of near term. 
And you know, James also asked 

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about, you know, there's, you 
know, not too many pureplay 

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copper plays left on the on the 
A6. 

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What were you guys thoughts just
on that and then the copper more

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generally for this year? 
She's pretty consensus long 

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right like that. 
That's the, the, the feature of 

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it that kind of scares me in a 
way that everyone wants it, 

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especially, you know, you have 
the, the mining sort of fundies 

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and then you have the, the 
generalist as well. 

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And when every man and the dog 
loves something, you're not 

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going to get it cheap. 
And you see it in all the 

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transactions. 
There's been some hot M&A deals,

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big mines, you know, many 
billions of dollars. 

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And when you have that many 
people looking at the, that many

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miners looking at the 
transactions, because every big 

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miner wants copper, you're not 
getting them cheap. 

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So you're really paying for that
narrative as opposed to buying 

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something that's deep into the 
cost curve where you might be 

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getting it on a a discount 
because everyone hates it and 

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everyone's running away. 
That's the sort of first thought

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that comes to my mind. 
Well, on the yeah, on the big 

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scale, it's like, you know, big 
Trump, he's gonna have a massive

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effect on, you know, China 
growth of China bloody and 

97
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'cause you know, China is the 
determinant on what copper 

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demands gonna be. 
And if there's any slowing 

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there, that's obviously you can 
pick the best stock you want, 

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but if the underlying price 
doesn't go up, good for bloody 

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bugger all. 
So but then on the yeah, pure 

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like getting pureplay of scale 
as well. 

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Like, you know, AIC for 
instance, like yeah, it's 

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pureplay copper, but it's not 
producing shit loads of copper. 

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You know, like to develop with 
Woodlawn and that lock. 

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It's not they're not going to be
like big, like they're not going

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to be at 50,000 tons of copper. 
Yeah, whereas what Mac they're. 

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45,045 get over 50. 
Yeah. 

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So it's like trying to find 
something of scale in here 

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without going to like a frigging
gown to the vicuna, like to a 

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porphyry or something. 
Yeah, that requires bloody shot 

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loads of CapEx. 
The lack the lack of copper ASX 

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names is reflective of the lack 
of quality in ASX in Australian 

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copper projects. 
Yeah, like you think I remember 

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scale at least. 
Well, de Grocer. 

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Was what were they, 6065 
thousand tons of copper? 

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Because it was, you know what, 
one half million, 1.6 million 

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tonne at near 5% copper. 
But to find that now like look 

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at like what half a billion 
dollar company, Firefly, that's 

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probably going to be 1 1/2% 
copper. 

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So that'll have to be like to 
get that to 4050 thousand tonne 

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of copper equivalent likes no, 
over 3,000,000 tonnes of ore 

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from a kilometer down. 
So it's to find that whereas you

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know, Mac, Mac is coming from 
what, 1.8 kilometers down. 

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But that's got the grade. 
It's got 5, 5%, yeah. 

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So I was a distressed asset for 
a reason, yeah. 

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So. 
Near term outlook for copper 

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probably about the same as where
it is right now. 

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And I think you're better off 
like like you said, it's the, 

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it's the corporates who are, who
are maybe maybe getting a, you 

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know, looking, looking on the 
outlook and saying there's a 

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shortage. 
And so they're paying high 

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multiples for the, you know, the
acquisition targets to, you 

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know, a bit of a tip to the 
person who asked the question, 

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those acquisition targets and 
not on the ASX. 

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Listen to that episode with Tom 
Orwreck and he'll he'll talk 

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about yeah, like maybe some of 
the, some of the other kind of 

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targets that could could get 
covered up, but they're by far 

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and above, yeah, skewed towards 
the, the, the North American 

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listings. 
And a bit of this is another 

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00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:32,520
question, but sort of related 
topic. 

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This is from Risk It for the 
Biscuit on Twitter. 

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I'm not sure if it's a he or a 
she. 

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Oh no Anthony, sorry Anthony. 
So I've just seen the name 

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there. 
Will 2025 be the year that the 

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00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,040
small medium Mount Isa copper 
projects start to gain 

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mainstream attention and 
traction? 

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One example is Glencore 
committing to a long term 

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partnership with Carnaby. 
Partnership's a funny word, 

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isn't it? 
You'll love you'll love to see 

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00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,120
the juniors use the word 
partnership with the commodity 

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trading houses. 
But it's always a bit more devil

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in the detail there, Al. 
Bancora rather on the way out 

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than on the way in to Mount Isa,
that's how to sort of think 

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about their approach to that 
area. 

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So I think you're hoping for a 
few things to go your way at the

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end of the day, they're they're 
higher cost assets and if the 

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copper price goes up, I've got a
lot of talk to the price, but 

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they are high cost and you're 
running the risk when you when 

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00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:31,080
you own them. 
Yeah, what? 

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00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:34,039
What would Glencore sell the 
smelter for and all that there? 

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00:08:34,039 --> 00:08:35,520
Mount Ozer exposure? 
What's? 

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00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,760
The liability. 
Don't know it's. 

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00:08:40,039 --> 00:08:41,600
I couldn't tell you if the I 
wouldn't know. 

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Tough one. 
So yeah, you pretty much need 

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00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,320
some big dog to come in and 
consolidate the whole region 

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00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:49,840
because it appears, as you said,
Glencore's on the way out, so 

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00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,480
they don't want to do it. 
Like who will do it? 

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00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:56,760
Yeah, Glencore conscious of 
their social licence as well. 

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00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,960
They've still got enormous, you 
know, economic activity in 

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00:08:59,960 --> 00:09:01,480
relation to the coal mining in 
that state. 

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00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:03,960
They don't want to, yeah. 
They want to preserve their 

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00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,840
social licence in in Queensland 
too, So no. 

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00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,440
That's a good point. 
Bit of a change of tech. 

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00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:16,240
So I'll direct this to our 
finance gurus, Trev and JD. 

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00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:21,520
So hankle hankle Gogo up and 
rising staff and coming here. 

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00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:27,680
So Hankle Gogo from from Twitter
says, can you guys go over the 

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00:09:27,680 --> 00:09:31,920
terminology related to the ways 
of valuing companies like a back

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00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,760
to basics for some of the new 
money miners now, I mean the 

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00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:39,040
segment like this, you know, you
could go on for for hours, but 

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00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:43,760
why don't we do? 
Why don't we do a couple like 

182
00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,120
MPV? 
What what the Hell's MPV for for

183
00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:53,200
a very any intro to our finance?
I could zoom out a bit and I, I 

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00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:57,400
would like preface it with 
saying the way you value, you 

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00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:59,080
know, mining companies changes 
over time. 

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00:09:59,560 --> 00:10:02,400
You go from this like, you know,
in situ resource in the ground 

187
00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,400
and then, well, you know, 
hopefully blue sky discovery 

188
00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:08,440
people get ahead of themselves. 
And then as you get nearer and 

189
00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:10,120
nearer to cash flow, people use 
the DCF. 

190
00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,760
And whenever we're talking about
these multiples, we often like 

191
00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,880
say stuff like P NAV, well, 
we're just sort of shortening 

192
00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,480
things. 
It's price divided by the NAV 

193
00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:21,920
per share and that's what we 
mean by P NAV. 

194
00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,560
And then NPVNPV is a simple one.
You're working out what is the, 

195
00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,640
the net present value of the, 
the future cash flows from this 

196
00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:31,720
upper from, from this mining 
project. 

197
00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,120
What, what the NPV is kind of 
like a, a thing everyone looks 

198
00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:37,600
at in the, in the feasibility 
study or the PFS or even the 

199
00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,480
scoping study or PEA. 
And what's your CapEx out late 

200
00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,520
at the beginning? 
And then what are your your kind

201
00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,080
of free cash flows overtime 
taking into account the? 

202
00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:47,320
Time value of money, exactly, 
Yeah. 

203
00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,840
So that's why we always pick on 
the discount rate, which is the 

204
00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,120
percentage you use to discount 
those cash flows. 

205
00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,600
We talk pretty commonly, some of
the miners who you know will 

206
00:10:55,600 --> 00:11:00,320
reference EV to EBITDA multiple,
which is taking into account the

207
00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,160
the value of the company on the 
Stock Exchange, incorporating 

208
00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,840
their net debt and then 
comparing that with their 

209
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,040
EBITDA, which is a sort of crude
cash flow metric. 

210
00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:15,040
That's, you know, we sometimes 
use it often more often for 

211
00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:17,840
copper miners and so on. 
It's more of an industrialist 

212
00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,400
kind of metric. 
I think it's more preferred in 

213
00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:24,120
the mining space to use net 
asset value and that's related 

214
00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:28,360
to these projects having a 
definitive mine life. 

215
00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:31,560
Yeah. 
Plus the the corporate level, 

216
00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,320
there's often these adjustments 
for for your NAV as well-being 

217
00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,400
the cash and debt cap structure 
in the money options which are 

218
00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,800
reflected in NAV per share. 
Yeah, IRI is another one. 

219
00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:42,680
That's another one bankers will 
Chuck around. 

220
00:11:42,680 --> 00:11:46,360
And that's just similarly when a
study is being put forward, 

221
00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,480
trying to just put your returns 
into a percentage term so you 

222
00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,240
can understand what the returns 
might be, again taking into 

223
00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,000
account the outflows, the 
inflows of capital over time. 

224
00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,680
I guess the interesting thing, 
which I think we touched on in a

225
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:06,840
previous episode is with, with, 
with mining assets, you know, 

226
00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:12,760
especially really long life 
ones, because things like MPV 

227
00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,680
and IRS take into account the 
time value of money. 

228
00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,800
You know, you might have a, a 
copper producer, a gold producer

229
00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,720
that you know, produces for 50 
years or something. 

230
00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:26,040
But the MPV, because you're 
taking into account the time 

231
00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,160
value of money, penalises or 
doesn't penalise, but it makes 

232
00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,600
those cash flows that are 4050 
years out so small when 

233
00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,720
actually, jeez, if you can 
produce for 40-50 years, that's 

234
00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,800
like a, a great thing. 
But the the the, you know, the 

235
00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,560
Excel spreadsheet sort of 
doesn't give too much 

236
00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:43,760
recognition for that. 
Big time the thing that Excel 

237
00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,600
spreadsheet doesn't give you 
credit for is commodity markets 

238
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,960
are volatile and relatively 
frequently there are these like 

239
00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:53,280
short term shortages and price 
flexes up massively. 

240
00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,960
So, you know, miners might just,
you know, wash their face for, 

241
00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,320
for seven years and then have 
one year where they make 7 years

242
00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:00,640
worth of profit because the, the
price of their commodity shot up

243
00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,360
massively. 
That's, that's like, you know, 

244
00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,920
you get in the realm of, yeah, 
where the spreadsheet kind of 

245
00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:07,120
fails. 
It's just our, our, our 

246
00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,960
assumptions on pricing and how 
volatile and, you know, de 

247
00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,880
minimis earnings can be for some
periods and then highly 

248
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:14,760
lucrative for a very short 
period of time. 

249
00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,760
But people talk about the NPV 
not capturing the option value 

250
00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:22,840
of a mining asset or or or or 
longevity that comes from 

251
00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:26,720
enduring mining cycles. 
Coal assets over the 2022 period

252
00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,360
is the most recent example of 
that way. 

253
00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,360
That's a good example. 
Prices go through the roof and 

254
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,240
these companies just buy back 
their shares, issue dividends 

255
00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:38,000
and all sorts and it pays for a 
lot of the bad years. 

256
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:39,920
Yeah. 
Now, I think there's some good 

257
00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:44,280
things to sort of grains of salt
to take in when you're looking 

258
00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,160
at those sort of multiples and 
figures and things like that. 

259
00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:49,880
Moving on. 
Actually, you sort of touched on

260
00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:54,920
it before, Maddie. 
Lots of lots of questions about 

261
00:13:56,040 --> 00:14:00,600
Trumpy coming in and what that 
means for commodities, commodity

262
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,720
prices, things like that. 
I'll flash up a few of the 

263
00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,080
questions that came through. 
Neil asked the world of 

264
00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,760
commodities in the context of 
the new Trump presidency. 

265
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,600
How does the team see this 
playing out in 2025? 

266
00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,200
A couple of other ones were 
predictions for renewable 

267
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,720
commodities with the 
cancellation of the EV mandate 

268
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,800
in the USA. 
Also, any insights regarding the

269
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:26,480
drill baby, drill rhetoric in 
other jurisdictions you say like

270
00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,280
Australia and Canada, how that 
may affect prices. 

271
00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:34,000
I don't know if you guys had 
some high level views on what 

272
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,720
that might look like this year. 
Well, they're definitely, if 

273
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,560
you're an Aussie, Aussie miner 
in Aussie dollars, you're 

274
00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:43,080
definitely getting the good 
tailwind of an exchange right at

275
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,280
the, at the moment, like, you 
know, going from what, 6 within 

276
00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:48,800
1/4? 
It's going from 69 to 62 cents. 

277
00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:53,000
So if Trump's good for the US 
dollar, it's going to keep 

278
00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,320
strengthening that and the our 
realised price. 

279
00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:00,160
But then it's, you know, they 
talk about the if the there's 

280
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,520
still a lot of gold buying 
around the world. 

281
00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:08,800
The I think the ATF flies have 
always seemed to from what I've 

282
00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:13,720
been told of the US dollar, US 
gold price movement of always 

283
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,920
outweighed with the realised 
price that Australian miners get

284
00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,440
for it just with the the VNX 
funds and everything. 

285
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:23,040
So but they'll, you know, be in 
the position where they got look

286
00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,160
at Regis. 
They got what nearly they're 

287
00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,440
going to rapidly have nearly 
bloody the 3rd to half of their 

288
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,320
friggin EV in cash so in a 
couple of years. 

289
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,440
So pretty phenomenal. 
I'll be just like metals accent.

290
00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,560
If you look at other sort of 
policies, ones that we spoke 

291
00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,840
about heaps over the past year 
and a bit like the Inflation 

292
00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:47,560
Reduction Act, IRA talk that 
they might trim that down, can 

293
00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:49,600
it, who knows. 
I don't think a lot of that 

294
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:53,480
value or the benefits was really
actually coming through despite 

295
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,280
all the talk about it to a lot 
of the miners. 

296
00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:02,080
Regardless of that anyway, the 
US for EVs is like 10 odd 

297
00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,480
percent of the global market. 
They're not, you know, more than

298
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,360
50% of global sales are actually
done in China for electric 

299
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,880
vehicles. 
So they're not a huge player in 

300
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,680
that market anyway. 
And who knows if they even, you 

301
00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,040
know, cancel. 
It remains to be seen. 

302
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,920
I think there will be shorter 
term volatile action as as Trump

303
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,760
and I guess he's kind of 
competitors in a way, Xi Jinping

304
00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:27,680
and stuff and how they kind of 
act on other sides. 

305
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:29,800
We saw it with aluminium in 
December. 

306
00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,720
We saw it with more niche metals
as well. 

307
00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,520
As they sort of posture about 
what's going to happen, they 

308
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,200
start flexing their muscles on 
the parts of the supply chains 

309
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,560
that they do have strength, 
Aluminium being a stronger point

310
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:44,840
in China, the US being more 
reliant. 

311
00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,080
So I think you'll see like sort 
of short term movements like 

312
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,600
that and then you'll see 50 
juniors talk about how they've 

313
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,360
got this niche metal in their 
backyard and all these kind of 

314
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:56,920
things. 
And yeah, well, remains to be 

315
00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,320
kind of seen, but I think 
there's a lot of a lot of talk 

316
00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,720
and you got to kind of wait to 
see what actually gets put into 

317
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,920
legislation. 
It's the interesting one which 

318
00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,280
has come out then the last week 
or so. 

319
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:12,040
Is this project Stargate that 
sort of 500 billion worth of 

320
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,440
investment into AI 
infrastructure? 

321
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,560
I mean, we're sort of you guys 
have touched on that in 

322
00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:22,640
interviews with a whole host of 
guests late last year around 

323
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,960
that driving, you know, you 
know, critical, you know, 

324
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,840
minerals demand as opposed to 
the, you know, traditional EV 

325
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:33,160
theme we've seen for a while. 
I mean that it's a lot of money.

326
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,640
Well, it's a lot of potentially 
a lot of copper, a lot of. 

327
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,680
Uranium. 
Uranium for this, because you 

328
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,760
know, the, I was watching, I 
think it was CNBC the other 

329
00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,920
night and it was just the first 
question that always comes up 

330
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,480
about that, about that Stargate 
was like, right, how are we 

331
00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:55,320
powering them? 
So and gas and gas and nuclear 

332
00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:59,000
are the essentially the only 
ways for things of that scale. 

333
00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:02,760
It's a solder, Yeah. 
Shit loaders market. 

334
00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,280
Shit loads are sold I. 
Reckon every single miner can 

335
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:10,200
wrap that around their narrative
and just plug in and play you. 

336
00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:13,160
You need every sort of 
electrification as well as 

337
00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:17,240
energy type to to get those 
sorts of things off the ground. 

338
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,440
And that's a bigger scale than 
we've ever spoken about. 

339
00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,880
It's a biggest scale than most 
people have ever spoken about in

340
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:28,120
a quicker time frame, so be 
suspect of how much of the 

341
00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:30,080
money's actually going to go 
into the ground over what sort 

342
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,520
of period. 
But regardless, it's a it's a 

343
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:37,400
huge kick up. 
I think the it's a it looks 

344
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,080
pretty convincing It's going to 
happen. 

345
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,960
Remember the what what, two 
years ago, the everyone's lot 

346
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,400
now the metaverse is the next 
thing that just died in the ass.

347
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:49,360
But I guess this data centre and
AI thing looks pretty convincing

348
00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:54,880
that it's it's heading down that
path and it's pretty good. 

349
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:59,000
Like how the variances in the 
the whole EV not bubble bit of a

350
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,680
lot, a bit of a nickel bubble 
really like the whole nickel 

351
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:03,160
thematic that didn't come to 
fruition. 

352
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:08,720
But this looks pretty set for 
yeah, copper energy, shit load 

353
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,240
of solder for the tin. 
So. 

354
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,160
So yeah. 
It's one point on the 

355
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,120
geopolitics stuff. 
It's like, it's like, it's so 

356
00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:20,440
hard to sometimes like, you 
know, think of all the 2nd order

357
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,240
impacts, all that sort of stuff.
But the general comment on the 

358
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:28,040
markets is like there's a lot of
froth in parts of the markets a 

359
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:32,240
a a lot, right, like you know. 
Speaking of froth, actually we 

360
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,320
did get a question from Nick on 
Facebook. 

361
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,160
Can we get a call on fartcoin 
for 2025? 

362
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:44,800
Also Trump and Melania coins. 
Oh, that's just America's 

363
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,640
bizarre. 
Yeah, but no, yeah, I think 

364
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,240
you're right, Trev. 
I mean, if I mean that that 

365
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:54,200
that's, you know, even in the 
main coin space as a, as a bit 

366
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,240
of a funny example, but yeah, 
no, just even more broadly as 

367
00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,080
well. 
It's just crazy, isn't it? 

368
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,120
I. 
Reckon on on that particular 

369
00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:05,000
call there's probably more 
chance of fart coin outperforms 

370
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,440
Trump and Milani just 
historically celebrity coins 

371
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:11,640
have not done very well nothing 
against Trump or Melania but 

372
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,760
yeah the long the long yeah but 
we'll see that the. 

373
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,240
But I do think there's a 
reflection to have on just the 

374
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,320
state of the market because when
things are really frothy, that's

375
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,280
usually a predictor of, you 
know, things being pretty like a

376
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,720
lot of turmoil. 
A lot of people are just like 

377
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,440
maximally deployed. 
But the reality is the best 

378
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:36,600
opportunities come in moments of
like a liquidity panic or crash.

379
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,440
Whenever a market crashes and 
all of a sudden some people have

380
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,200
too much margin or like funds 
blow up or whatever, they've got

381
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:43,840
to sell everything and they're 
for sellers. 

382
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:45,800
And those are wonderful buying 
opportunities. 

383
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,400
So I just think it's one of 
those years where like it's just

384
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,040
going to pay dividends to have 
like some dry powder to deploy 

385
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,360
if those events or an event like
that pops up. 

386
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,880
That's my that's my fuel. 
I think I've got to, I want to 

387
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,760
get my head around these other 
timeline for these data centres 

388
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,200
and the projects, how long it's 
going to take. 

389
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:07,480
Because if if they're so energy 
dependent, it's not going to be 

390
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,800
just uranium, it'll be powering 
them like fucking could be like 

391
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,520
could be huge for thermal coal, 
could like, could be lithium for

392
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:18,720
like extra storage, like could 
be a bit of everything needed to

393
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,680
power it. 
Look how cheap natural gas is in

394
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:23,480
the states. 
It's insane. 

395
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:28,880
It's it's 3 or 4 like $4.00 when
I last looked Henry Hub that 

396
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:30,720
that is crazy. 
Like everyone would be trying to

397
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:35,160
use that first and then 
complement it with things like 

398
00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:39,880
nuclear and other sources so 
they can meet the targets that 

399
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:40,880
they've put forward in these 
things. 

400
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,720
But they take a lot of time 
naturally S is much sort of 

401
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,880
quicker and reliable means of 
getting your power if you want 

402
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:48,840
it soon. 
So I'm completely with you 

403
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,160
though, very keen to see the the
timeline of these builds. 

404
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:52,760
Yeah. 
It could be could be diesel 

405
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,520
Jenny's powering at the start, 
which is like a fucking shit 

406
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,440
load oil, which is going to be 
the whole drill baby drill 

407
00:21:58,440 --> 00:21:59,240
thing. 
What is it? 

408
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:03,480
Land man says got to be between 
what is it 73 and 88 bucks a 

409
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:08,240
barrel for optimum conditions 
for the global economy. 

410
00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:12,760
Yeah, and, and look at Scott 
Bezant, the incoming peak for 

411
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,400
Treasury Secretary. 
Super interesting guys. 

412
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,400
Worked with Druckenmill and and 
Soros in his time in in the 

413
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,360
hedge fund world, ran his own 
hedge fund for a long time. 

414
00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:24,520
And one of the the pillars of 
his sort of policy he's putting 

415
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:29,520
forward is 3,000,000 more 
barrels of oil coming out per 

416
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,040
day in the States. 
And that would be enormous. 

417
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,400
That would bring down costs. 
And obviously he's saying that 

418
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,520
to make industry hum even more 
in the states, see if they can 

419
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,560
sort of get there. 
But that is one of the three 

420
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,480
explicit targets he's put 
forward, as well as a, you know,

421
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,480
the other targets on GDP and 
these sorts of things. 

422
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:48,160
This is this Treasury Secretary,
by the way. 

423
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,840
He's a fellow that in the past 
who stated that he thinks the, 

424
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:56,720
you know, the US dollar like US 
will default in this debt like 

425
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,640
the reign as the supreme 
currency will end like. 

426
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:02,640
Yeah, Golden bugs. 
Want to want to get a hard on? 

427
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,040
Go listen to his. 
He did an awesome chat on the 

428
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,920
Capital Allocators podcast. 
Yeah, it's called Macromave, and

429
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,880
it was fascinating. 
The guy's got decades and 

430
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,440
decades of history in the game. 
And yeah. 

431
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,000
He's fun. 
There's plenty of gold in it, 

432
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,000
Yeah. 
I think what was Musk? 

433
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,720
Musk obviously puts it very 
simple, but what's he saying? 

434
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,280
Very soon the interest will be 
the same cost as the whole 

435
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,560
defense budget or something like
that. 

436
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,160
Just Yeah, I. 
Think it might have just edged 

437
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:31,760
it out last year. 
Yeah. 

438
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,000
Yeah. 
And that is a big military 

439
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,440
spend, yeah. 
Oh, Speaking of Gold Phone, you 

440
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,920
guys talking about that? 
We've got Nathan from Twitter 

441
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:45,080
who asked Gold Junior developers
which ones can realistically, in

442
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,080
your opinions, fund and move 
into production themselves, 

443
00:23:48,360 --> 00:23:50,960
Which ones will be taken out and
which ones are pretenders? 

444
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,440
I mean, that's worthy if it's 
all home, you know, for the 

445
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,600
episode. 
But you know, we could perhaps 

446
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,880
look at a few company examples, 
but perhaps maybe the 

447
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:05,680
characteristics that you tend to
say in the ones that can move 

448
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,400
into production themselves or 
you know, you know, attractive 

449
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,680
for a take out and, and, and 
things like that. 

450
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,640
You guys have any thoughts? 
Ali, this is this is one for 

451
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,600
you. 
I reckon this is your bread and 

452
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,200
butter. 
Or or I think. 

453
00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:20,680
I'll have something to say, 
yeah. 

454
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,640
Nice. 
I reckon the well and look the 

455
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,760
best performing producer last 
year I think based on our chart 

456
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,760
the other week was catalyst into
just terms of share price 

457
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:36,720
performance and you know they're
growing printing cash. 

458
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:41,480
I think they'd be looking for a 
for a deal or would they maybe 

459
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:46,440
look at broad stuff for the same
Stein because that's going to 

460
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,240
need a lot of capital to get 
that because that's potentially 

461
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,560
not a bad hub coming up for some
big pits. 

462
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,360
But it's going to need a plant, 
likely need a plant. 

463
00:24:56,360 --> 00:24:59,120
Makes sense to put a plant at 
the sandstone project. 

464
00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:03,520
So yeah, I think catalysts might
be looking around to like, you 

465
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,320
know, they're makers down the 
road from them, but just don't 

466
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,680
know if it's got the long term 
scale. 

467
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:16,000
We touched on in our in our 
first week back the Bullet 

468
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:22,440
bullying deal that will be 
trading again in April, a few 

469
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,360
years away from production. 
It'd be a developer with an 

470
00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:28,040
asset just need to go through 
the the studies and everything. 

471
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,520
But more generally, those kinds 
of deals are the assets that to 

472
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:32,960
be honest. 
Are off your radar. 

473
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:35,360
Completely off my radar. 
I had no idea about it 

474
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,280
happening. 
They're really interesting ones 

475
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,160
and I'm sure there's more than a
few that people are working on 

476
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,400
in the background. 
But yeah, very keen to see how 

477
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,600
that that trades. 
I'm sure it'd be interesting 

478
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,000
when it when it comes back 
online I think too. 

479
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:53,920
Things I've learnt, particularly
in the from last year as well, 

480
00:25:53,960 --> 00:26:01,800
is as far as the, the speed and 
the sort of most streamlined 

481
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,120
path forward you can get from, 
you know, being a developer to a

482
00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:09,840
producer, I think is having 
optionality and having your 

483
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:16,200
permitting under control. 
Just those having those two 

484
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:23,200
things I think so important, you
know, just, you know, it's times

485
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,160
to get, you know, MLS and then 
native title agreements and 

486
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,200
environmental approval, 
especially if you have to build 

487
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,800
a, you know, a processing plant 
and things like that. 

488
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,280
They take a lot of time. 
An optionality. 

489
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,080
I mean, yeah, I could do it 
myself. 

490
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,520
Yeah. 
I could get taken out by, you 

491
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,560
know, a big neighbor down the 
road. 

492
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,120
Yeah, I could do this. 
The more optionality you've got,

493
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:50,000
you've sort of got I think a bit
more firmer ground to put your 

494
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,680
two feet on and go actually no, 
this is how I'm going to 

495
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,000
maximize the value out of, you 
know, this asset, this company 

496
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,280
sort of thing a bit more. 
Feel like you're leading into an

497
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,960
MMS plug or something? 
One more. 

498
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:07,120
That kind of comes from, I'm not
a classical developer, but Wolf,

499
00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:09,040
they've got, they're building 
Kiaka that's going to be 

500
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:14,320
producing in half a year's time 
and they're no longer trading at

501
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,200
the level they were when they 
just had Zambrado. 

502
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,000
But I mean in share price, they 
did a capital raise and 

503
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,520
everything added sort of 60-70 
cents from the level they kind 

504
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,760
of were. 
But there's a step change again 

505
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,880
as they start producing over 
400,000 ounces, probably a 

506
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:31,800
year's time once things have 
ramped up and everything. 

507
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,480
So that's that's one I'm sort of
watching, obviously with a 

508
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,080
massive caveat of risk in the 
area that's in some countries 

509
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,920
heightened in recent times, but 
that's the opportunity that 

510
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,080
throws up for other people. 
You think like this, this scale,

511
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,560
the scale premium or like the 
fact that they've got 2 

512
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:49,920
operations? 
I mean, even if they're getting 

513
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,240
marked on the same sort of cash 
flows or whatever that they were

514
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,760
going from one asset to to 
doubling that way more Oz coming

515
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,520
at the ground, the cash flow 
jumps up substantially. 

516
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,360
Yeah, we'll kind of see in time.
But I think people have 

517
00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:06,320
definitely been risk off in West
Africa over the past year. 

518
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,760
And I think that's an 
opportunity for other people 

519
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:10,640
that can play with that sort of 
risk. 

520
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,160
It's Ding Ding on that one for 
me. 

521
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,160
I. 
Reckon now we're gonna yeah 

522
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:20,200
enter an era of of cash 
takeovers in the in the gold 

523
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,360
space. 
Cash takeovers, yeah, I mean, if

524
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,440
you just like look at the lay of
the landscape, the gold miners 

525
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:30,360
are increasingly unhedged cash 
generative and sitting on large 

526
00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:34,280
cash balances without growth 
projects, it's going to be 

527
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:38,760
competitive to buy stuff and 
yeah, just we haven't seen cash 

528
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,360
takeovers in a fair while in the
gold space. 

529
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,240
I expect that to come back this 
year. 

530
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,600
I also think that the the 
there'll be some really good 

531
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,440
opportunities for larger gold 
miners to sell assets in this 

532
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,800
kind of market too, for them to 
like rationalize their 

533
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,840
portfolio, maybe sell some of 
their higher cost stuff because 

534
00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:59,720
they'll get really good value 
for it. 

535
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:04,000
And there are now all the mid 
tiers really cashed up to to pay

536
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,080
up for, you know, maybe, you 
know, the not so best asset in 

537
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,080
the larger company's portfolio. 
I. 

538
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,920
Think Newmont's a good example 
of that over the past six 

539
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:13,320
months. 
Just Bang, Bang, bang. 

540
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,000
I mean, they've been working 
overtime, but just the speed at 

541
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,240
which they knocked out all the 
the non core assets. 

542
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,760
And I think by and large they'll
be getting more money than 

543
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,200
consensus was begging it for. 
Yeah. 

544
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:28,320
Single asset producers, I think 
a bit vulnerable to because 

545
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,680
they're, yeah, somewhat 
discounted because they're so 

546
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,640
much more exposed to single 
asset risk and and maybe 

547
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,560
they'll, you know, trade skinny 
enough that people will, yeah, 

548
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,400
find value there. 
OK. 

549
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,920
It'd be interesting to see if 
Gold Fields gets active in 

550
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,200
Australia again, if they sort of
just stick to what they've got 

551
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,840
or they divest or invest because
there's definitely a lot of 

552
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:55,680
options for them and lockers and
Anglo Goldishani with I still 

553
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,840
think, you know, with the cash 
that Regis is generating and you

554
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,800
look at the deal that Greatland 
got off Newmont, Regis could 

555
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:10,960
pull 100% of trop out of Anglo 
Goldishani AGI, which they would

556
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:15,280
have first ride on is that'd be 
that'd be a big play for them. 

557
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,960
And because there's a, you know,
a lot of future there once that 

558
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,680
a lot of underground potential 
there after the sort of pit 

559
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,800
finishes in a couple of years. 
So it'd. 

560
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:27,560
Be worth a lot of money. 
Hey that. 

561
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,680
Should be big, but do you reckon
you if you're going to get the 

562
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,920
best deal possible you'd 
probably get it out of a big 

563
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,440
company then a small one? 
Especially if you've got the pre

564
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,960
emptive, Yeah, that's a lot. 
Yeah, but they're stay paid. 

565
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:45,920
They paid 900 million for 30% 
when gold price was like 3000 an

566
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:46,920
ounce, I think. 
I want to say yeah. 

567
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,200
Yeah, I'd be I'd be interested 
to saying, but that a lot of 

568
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,880
that was probably paying for 
like, you know the big pit and 

569
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,760
and everything. 
I think if the not as much as 

570
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,800
proven up underground and it 
knows that there's going to be a

571
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,800
lot more capital to go into it 
with a downsized and cutting the

572
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,480
mill in half. 
It's like, well, whether they 

573
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,640
might be might be able to get it
a bit cheaper because you've got

574
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,080
to they mightn't want to AGI 
mightn't want to put the capital

575
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,320
in sure what? 
Do you reckon on goldfields 

576
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,800
more, less or sort of equally 
involved in Australia in a 

577
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,000
year's time? 
Just so slow moving. 

578
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:24,040
Well, it's you don't know it's 
like like, you know, I think 

579
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,040
it's a pretty pivotal year for 
Bellevue if they're going to 

580
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,480
like because the gold's there 
like it is a freaking high grade

581
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:32,440
mine. 
It just as I said, just needs 

582
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,800
that reset or Ding Ding Ding as 
well. 

583
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:41,320
But just, yeah, it's just 
whether someone will look at 

584
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:46,120
this pricing environment, think 
not yet 1 1/2 bills, you know, 

585
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:51,960
we'll pay that or we're going to
wait for a bit more distress if 

586
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,680
they can't pull a couple of 
quarters together and try get 

587
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:59,840
them for 1.2. 
Not sure, but I think I reckon 

588
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:03,120
that that company would be 
amenable to it for a liquidity 

589
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:07,720
event for the major holders. 
You know, BlackRock a bloody 15%

590
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,440
shareholder now in it. 
So I think, yeah, I think it's 

591
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,520
going to be, that'll be 
interesting this year. 

592
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,880
Yeah, we remember gold fields, 
they were revealed to have tried

593
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,320
their luck at getting hold of 
Corolla subsequent to West 

594
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,480
Golds. 
I think this, the scheme 

595
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,960
implementation deed was signed, 
but they tried to, they had bank

596
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,000
local bankers and we're trying 
to get hold of that. 

597
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,440
They're going for a site 
inspection. 

598
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,520
Yeah, well, that the, the 
scheme, the scheme, but with the

599
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,120
information circular revealed 
that they, they loved a beard at

600
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,560
a better, a better price, but 
more conditionality. 

601
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:47,200
And the, they did have a change 
of, of, of management a bit 

602
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,600
before that, I think maybe six 
or eight months before that. 

603
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,640
So yeah, my God, is that they're
they're much more amenable to 

604
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,640
doing things in WA. 
Not that we've seen it yet. 

605
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,320
It was interesting in that 
region I just saw announced 

606
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,840
today the new non executive 
director for Pantoro is Stuart 

607
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,800
Matthews from Goldfields. 
He was one of the senior 

608
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,240
Goldfields. 
OK. 

609
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,440
So which and then there's, you 
know, there's been the talk 

610
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:15,720
about, you know, wet potentially
W Guild Pantoro with that, you 

611
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,560
know, sort of consolidating that
Southern Goldfields region a 

612
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,080
bit. 
So oh, nice. 

613
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:24,920
Very nice. 
We're going to change tech of 

614
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,880
jurisdiction and commodity now. 
So we've got palm tree capital 

615
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,600
and ASICS commodities investor 
from Twitter asking about 

616
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,640
Indonesian mining. 
So Indonesian mining, in 

617
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,440
particular ASICS listed 
companies, massive resources of 

618
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,880
gold, nickel, copper, low cost 
environment and but you know, 

619
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,160
still close to Australia, but 
you know, there's still, you 

620
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,040
know, risk factors around 
Indonesians growing rapidly. 

621
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,200
And then ASICS commodities 
investor asked Nickel, what's 

622
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,600
your outlook by mid year given 
Indonesia scaling back 

623
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,680
production in conjunction with 
the various operations that were

624
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:03,720
mothballed last year? 
Close to Australia, but a very 

625
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,280
different jurisdiction. 
Yes, it was interesting to see, 

626
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,320
I think over the past week or so
that they were talking about 

627
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,760
giving out less permits, making 
a bit less happen in the nickel 

628
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:20,239
space so that, you know, they 
can stop the just huge boost in 

629
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,440
supply that's come out over the 
past few years. 

630
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,520
So they want to find a, a, a 
price level. 

631
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,440
I think they're just playing a 
balancing act, right, where they

632
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,719
can disincentivize anyone from 
doing any more production around

633
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:36,120
the world, but get the biggest 
bang for buck that they possibly

634
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,239
can. 
And yeah, I mean, so much money 

635
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,120
has gone in, it's already sunk 
there that the nickel is going 

636
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,120
to be pumped for for years and 
years and years. 

637
00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:48,120
As for the the other commodities
you mentioned, they're obviously

638
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,639
done a heap of work in copper to
they've forced Freeport. 

639
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:56,840
Freeport spent 1.2 billion US 
this quarter in CapEx choices, 

640
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:01,040
mainly getting the smelter, the 
smelter at Grasberg that they're

641
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:05,280
forced to do because they're no 
longer able to export, just 

642
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,480
concentrate. 
So they need to make, they need 

643
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,680
to go a bit further downstream, 
very similar to what we saw with

644
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:13,800
nickel. 
Indonesia wants to get more bang

645
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,440
for their buck across the the 
board there and Freeport weren't

646
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:18,800
going to walk away from 
Grasberg. 

647
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,480
So it's a balancing act. 
Lots of other countries have 

648
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,640
tried that unsuccessfully. 
They've managed to do it OK. 

649
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,320
When you have enough of the 
market or whatever, you can kind

650
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:34,400
of do it too, right? 
Like Guinea's the the other 

651
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,640
example who are, who are, you 
know, following a similar path 

652
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,880
in relation to the bauxite, Add 
more, more, more refining, 

653
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:46,160
smelting in country even, which 
they're going to be able to do. 

654
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:51,280
And yeah, it's, that's actually 
a good thing for the for the 

655
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,920
miners strangely enough to 
globally because you you have a 

656
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,480
surplus of refining and smelting
capacity, which means like lower

657
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,360
TCLCS on you, Yeah, which means 
you bank a bit more of that 

658
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,040
margin. 
Freeport's going to get active. 

659
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,680
Look, oh, they produced what, 
400,000 tonne of copper this 

660
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,640
quarter and you know, has said 
tried it, such a bloody good 

661
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,400
multiple, good paper. 
Do you think they're going to 

662
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,120
they never really get talked 
about for copper acquisitions. 

663
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:21,000
It's always like, you know, BHP,
Rio, Glencore and the names that

664
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,240
get thrown around like. 
Yeah, it's Freeport. 

665
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,320
Yeah, I think it's a worthy 
conversation. 

666
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:33,520
There's Grasberg's unpalatable 
to Rio and BHP, just the the 

667
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,480
fact that the the the tailings 
run off into the ocean down 

668
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,200
there, down the mountain. 
BHP got good history with Yeah. 

669
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,280
OK, Teddy, Not sure how you say 
that one, but Teddy. 

670
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:45,280
Yeah, Teddy. 
Yeah. 

671
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,920
And Rio had the original pseudo 
royalty on Grasberg itself, 

672
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,720
which they had to divest 
tragically because of the 

673
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,800
pushback from the the tailings 
of of the operation. 

674
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:57,960
Yeah. 
I mean, remember we spoke about 

675
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:02,000
last year nor just wouldn't 
invest in them because of their 

676
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,040
interest in in Grasberg. 
Yeah. 

677
00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:05,960
Oh yeah. 
But do you think Freeport will 

678
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:10,760
invest in about like a will it 
will you say done more in South 

679
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,640
America and stuff? 
I'm sure they're looking at it 

680
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:18,480
as much as anyone and you know, 
potentially they've got more 

681
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,880
richly valued paper to to kind 
of do a deal with given they get

682
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,440
all these kind of general funds 
and all these sorts of things. 

683
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,880
But I mean talking way out of 
what I kind of know. 

684
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:34,320
Didn't they used to own 10K? 
They they sold it in 2016 

685
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:36,680
because they did all these oil 
and gas deals at the beginning 

686
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,880
of the 20 tens almost went tits 
up in 20/15/16 when every 

687
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,840
commodity came off and they were
fighting for their life and that

688
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,240
to sell some some really good 
assets. 

689
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,680
We fired it with the Lundin. 
They both sold out, yeah. 

690
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:51,000
But yeah, it's a good one, 
Maddie. 

691
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,680
Very interesting. 
So we've got Ian from Facebook 

692
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,760
asked how to spot lifestyle 
companies. 

693
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:03,880
What are some good rules of 
thumb or sort of screens or red 

694
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:08,840
flags that you guys like to use?
When you say looking at a 

695
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:10,640
company, are you going through a
quarterly or something? 

696
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,000
They go like this is a smells to
write. 

697
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:20,240
Probably a lifestyle company. 
Too many, too many corporate 

698
00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:26,840
videos and podcast interviews. 
High, high sort of amounts of 

699
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,800
related party transactions. 
They're not all bad, you know, 

700
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,840
but just look into the, the 
details on them. 

701
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,400
If there's, you know, hiring 
your, your brother's firm to do 

702
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,720
this, your uncle's firm to do 
that, those sorts of things. 

703
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:41,920
Just look into the the weeds 
there. 

704
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:46,400
Yeah, if you own a, a junior and
it's in there the business of, 

705
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:50,720
of expiration, you're owning it 
because you, you expect a 

706
00:38:50,720 --> 00:38:53,320
catalyst to move its share price
from where it is now. 

707
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:58,160
You're fighting gravity because 
the company has a burn rate and 

708
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:02,240
that burn rate is it's overheads
to keep the lights on and pay 

709
00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:04,880
all the bills and all that sort 
of stuff, which means that, you 

710
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,280
know, a couple times a year 
they're going to knock the door 

711
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,320
for, for new funds from 
investors. 

712
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:13,520
And if they're a very small 
company, then sometimes the 

713
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,320
dilution is so extortionate just
to keep the lights on rise. 

714
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,040
If they're 5 million market cap,
they got to raise too. 

715
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:19,880
That's a lot. 
That's a lot of dilution, right?

716
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,920
I think I do that twice a year. 
You know, quickly you're, you're

717
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,280
1% interest in the company 
becomes like a .1% interest in 

718
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,920
the company just because they've
diluted the, the shares so much.

719
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,640
So what you, I think you really 
should be looking for is like, 

720
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,560
are they doing anything to get 
to the catalyst you're expecting

721
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,280
them to do? 
Or are they, are they simply 

722
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,000
just dormant? 
Like are they, there's, there's,

723
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,320
there's not much work happening,
there's not much news flow. 

724
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,160
There's, you know, there's 
pretty substantial overheads 

725
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,880
which are going to result in the
need for new capital to come in.

726
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,800
If they can manage the, the 
capital spend, like if they can 

727
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:54,440
manage the overheads, then 
that's not so bad a thing. 

728
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:56,400
If they got like decent cash and
that and they keep they're 

729
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,600
running things really skinny, 
then you can you can wait a bit 

730
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,200
longer if you got to wait for a 
different kind of price cycle 

731
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,840
for the catalyst to come. 
Yeah, and I think I'll caveat 

732
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:11,920
that new slow with planning this
or thinking about this and and 

733
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,240
you know people are you see a 
lot of companies put 

734
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,280
announcements out like you know 
about that sort of stuff. 

735
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:22,200
It's like OK, but like when have
you are you actually drilling on

736
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,760
the ground? 
Have you completed AGF survey? 

737
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,560
Have you actually done all of 
these things? 

738
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,440
Some companies just ship me when
they put, oh, we're thinking 

739
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,320
about this evaluating this, 
which look, you have to do. 

740
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,400
But if like if that's the only 
news flow and then you've got 

741
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,080
like you say, Trav, this 
corporate spend just going on in

742
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,800
the background just to keep the 
the lights on. 

743
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,760
It's it's frustrating, that's 
for sure. 

744
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:49,160
But yeah, looking at the in the 
quarterlies, it, you know, does 

745
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,160
split it out, you know, 
corporate admin spend, you know,

746
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,400
exploration spend, you know, all
all that too. 

747
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:59,280
So, you know, he has, you have 
periods with all ebbs and flows,

748
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,400
but if it's, you know, pretty 
consistently very minimal on the

749
00:41:02,720 --> 00:41:07,040
operational activities front, 
it's probably worth looking to, 

750
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:07,800
that's for sure. 
Yeah. 

751
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:09,600
What are you getting for that 
burn rate? 

752
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:11,400
You know, yeah. 
That's right. 

753
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,080
This one's for you. 
Specifically for you, Matthew. 

754
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,880
So this is from No Pants Vance 
from Twitter. 

755
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:22,960
It's I will flash up his 
question on the screen. 

756
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:27,760
But I think the the crux of what
he's trying to understand is how

757
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,800
does all body geometry? 
So that's, you know, the shape 

758
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,520
of, you know, the BLOB of metal 
that's in the ground. 

759
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:39,200
How's that important? 
When you then go from, say, like

760
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,960
a resource definition stage to 
go, OK, now we've got to RIP 

761
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,840
this thing out the ground and, 
you know, build a pit or build 

762
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,080
a, you know, underground mine 
that wraps around it. 

763
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:54,320
You know, how can the geometry 
affect the engineering side of 

764
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:58,160
things given your, you know, 
sort of previous life experience

765
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,560
in that world? 
I'll try not to blab on with too

766
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:08,880
much shit, but well, open, open 
pit wise, like if you got to 

767
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:13,760
start with a pit, you know, the 
more vertical the ore body, the 

768
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:18,120
sort of you can't have a pit for
as long because you're the 

769
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,360
deeper you go, the, you know, 
the more stripping is required 

770
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,120
to sort of follow that down. 
So you look at, you know, the, 

771
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:25,800
what are the, some of the great 
pits? 

772
00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:31,080
Look at Capricorn Karla window. 
Like that's just the, it's just 

773
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:35,240
pretty much the pretty flat 
plunging sort of ore body that 

774
00:42:35,240 --> 00:42:38,360
the the pitch just follows and, 
you know, low strip at the start

775
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:39,720
and they just keep following it 
down. 

776
00:42:39,720 --> 00:42:44,440
It's obviously very consistent 
and good continuity and like 

777
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,280
that's why they've made good 
money. 

778
00:42:47,240 --> 00:42:48,880
So you know, mount Gibson will 
be different. 

779
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:50,000
Well, that's, you know, 
vertical. 

780
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,000
You see that there's not big 
massive pits that we go on 

781
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:58,600
underground a lot quicker. 
Then I guess when you do get 

782
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:03,400
underground, it's the the dip of
the ore body is the most is the 

783
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:07,160
the biggest factor at play. 
So obviously it's nice having a 

784
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:11,680
not a vertical a vertical ore 
body is just easy because it's 

785
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:15,280
just not as soon as as soon as 
there's a bit of angle on it. 

786
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:19,000
You got to you mind the Stokes 
to to that angle, but that that 

787
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:20,800
hanging wall. 
The more angle, the more chance 

788
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,240
you've got of that falling in 
and diluting the grade. 

789
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:29,320
So you know you're simplest 
minds like you are a bander for 

790
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,120
diverse or Ding Ding Ding as 
well. 

791
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,720
Just vertical like. 
Daisy Milano that was like thin 

792
00:43:36,720 --> 00:43:40,400
and vertical, but it was a lot 
faulty like that was that 

793
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,760
created a lot of issues trying 
to stay on the ore body. 

794
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,840
But just yeah, just you just 
nice vertical, just follow the 

795
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:49,320
vine. 
Just nice and simple. 

796
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:54,000
That's what a lot of a lot of 
Northern Stars narrow vine mines

797
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,480
that they've had over the years 
were just like that. 

798
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:01,240
So and then like so you look at 
the mines around like your 

799
00:44:01,240 --> 00:44:04,840
Leonora where they go down 
instead of being 90°, they're 

800
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:09,680
like, you know, 40° thirty. 
So Gwalia is like 40°. 

801
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:14,720
So it's obviously dilution. 
Controlling the dilution becomes

802
00:44:14,720 --> 00:44:18,200
a problem recovering the ore on 
the foot wall because it's one 

803
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:19,800
thing controlling the dilution 
there. 

804
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:23,720
But when it's laid right over, I
think the natural angle of 

805
00:44:23,720 --> 00:44:27,880
repose for dirt to run down a 
hill is 55°. 

806
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:32,400
So essentially once it goes past
55° and it's flatter, the ore 

807
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,680
will sit on the foot wall and 
you either have to wash it down 

808
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:39,600
or you have to take more angle 
out of the football and take 

809
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:43,960
waste to get to that, you know, 
5560° to get to get it to real. 

810
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:48,920
So you can bog it. 
And then the more it dips over 

811
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:54,760
the, you have to do a lot more 
sort of you have to do you have 

812
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,400
to, you have a lot more 
development per vertical meter 

813
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:01,640
in the OR drives. 
Because if you had 20m level 

814
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:06,120
spacings, but it's dipping at 
45°, it's like a 30m drill hole 

815
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,360
to reach the other level. 
So you have to condense the 

816
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:14,800
levels a lot closer. 
So, and which could be it's less

817
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,640
decline development, but it's a 
lot more operating development 

818
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:19,400
too. 
But it's and it's just, it's 

819
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:23,800
just a bit more difficult and 
then so that's, that's deep. 

820
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:27,240
But then like, look, while 
they've been doing it for 

821
00:45:27,240 --> 00:45:30,720
frigging, you know, 1000 odd 
meters vertically, I don't 

822
00:45:30,720 --> 00:45:32,520
under, I don't think it was like
that the whole time. 

823
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:36,240
But they've, you know, once 
rinse and repeat, they get it 

824
00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:40,240
down pat and they've obviously 
got a way to recover it the best

825
00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:43,000
they can, but then proven up the
answers. 

826
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,680
The other one is plunge that we 
talk about the shape. 

827
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:48,960
So Gualia has a big plunge, 
Paulson's had a big plunge. 

828
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,840
And that means there's your dip 
of your body looking this way. 

829
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:56,760
But then if you spin around 90°,
it's where where the ore body's 

830
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,320
going. 
I'm also like, is it just going 

831
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:01,800
like? 
This or is it turning around 

832
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,800
going that way? 
So like Agnew Warunga for 

833
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,400
Goldfields that was like just 
dead vertical, like it's just a 

834
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:09,480
decline that just spiraled next 
to it. 

835
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:12,720
Paulsen's for instance, had a 
has a big plunge. 

836
00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:14,960
I think Fireflies one has a big 
plunge. 

837
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,480
Gualia has a big plunge. 
So what happens there is to 

838
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,920
actually infill drill as you go 
down to get the confidence in 

839
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,880
the ore body becomes more 
difficult because if it's got 

840
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:29,360
the big plunge to drill 300 
meters below, if you were just 

841
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,560
drilling from next to the ore 
body to get the angle on it is 

842
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:34,560
impossible because it's so far 
away. 

843
00:46:34,720 --> 00:46:38,360
So you've got to develop these 
long exploration drives to get 

844
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,240
over the top of it to get a 
better angle. 

845
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:44,120
So that obviously costs more, 
but then it's trying to get the 

846
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:48,120
geological confidence to 
geological confidence is what 

847
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,840
drives your guidance for the 
next year because you got to 

848
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:54,000
know pretty bloody close what 
the grade is. 

849
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:57,160
So you tell the market we're 
getting 200,000 oz. 

850
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:03,480
But if you the apple a factor in
the grade doesn't come out of 

851
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:05,880
that number. 
So plant plunge is another one. 

852
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:10,000
And then for that's why Gualia 
doesn't have it, doesn't have a 

853
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:14,320
shaft in it because they never 
got to the point. 

854
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:16,800
It just kept it obviously kept 
going and going, but they never 

855
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,760
got to the point to say, right, 
we have enough confidence in the

856
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,680
ore body down here and we're 
going to pick a point to put the

857
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:26,240
shaft in here because because 
the ore body is plunging, you 

858
00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:29,680
can't like it's too hard extend 
the shaft later on because the 

859
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:32,000
ore body keeps getting further 
away from the shaft. 

860
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:33,920
So you have to pick a point to 
put it in. 

861
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:37,800
There you go that. 
Was actually very interesting. 

862
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,560
But 10? 
Percent of bloody everything 

863
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,920
you'll need to know there, yeah.
But the take away basically 

864
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:50,200
being that I sort of got from 
that is basically the the all 

865
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:54,280
body geometry depending on what 
sort of if you're developing as 

866
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:58,560
an open pit or an underground 
can impact basically your 

867
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:00,440
material movement. 
And the more material you're 

868
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,240
having to move, the more that's 
going to cost and also the 

869
00:48:03,240 --> 00:48:07,080
logistics that's involved with, 
you know, more difficult 

870
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:08,800
material movement at angles and 
things. 

871
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:13,000
Like that well, and geometry is 
also if you look at where the 

872
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:19,720
location as well, because let's 
look at Spartan Spartan's got 

873
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:24,960
never never then you know, 
Peppers right next to it then is

874
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:27,400
at 4. 
They got 4 pillars sort of up 

875
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:30,280
strike from that. 
And they're sort of all lined up

876
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:32,080
next to each other. 
And they've got the decline 

877
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:36,240
coming in from the pit and 
they'll just go past each ore 

878
00:48:36,240 --> 00:48:40,280
body and then keep going down 
and sort of they can piggyback 

879
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:44,440
off off the infrastructure, like
off the ventilation, the 

880
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:47,200
pumping, the power as they sort 
of go down. 

881
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,560
And they're accessing multiple 
ore bodies all from sort of the 

882
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:52,920
one entry point, what from the 
one decline. 

883
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:56,240
Whereas Bellevue, for instance, 
like Bellevue's got, you know, 

884
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:58,480
crack and grade crack and ore 
body. 

885
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,080
But there's a bit over here, 
there's a bit over there, 

886
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,800
there's a bit bloody behind me. 
So you've got sort of 

887
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:07,040
independent mining areas 
accessing all these places with 

888
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:11,880
which need independent 
infrastructure like like pumping

889
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:15,160
ventilation power. 
And you got to sort of spread it

890
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:18,600
out everywhere, which is you 
would anticipate why they're, 

891
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:22,320
you know, struggling to get the 
answers out of the hole is 

892
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:27,840
managing the complexity of the 
constraints of infrastructure. 

893
00:49:28,240 --> 00:49:33,120
So once you once you pile all 
that together, they all, there's

894
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,880
good bits of it and bad bits of 
each of it, you'll figure out is

895
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:38,240
it good or not? 
Yeah. 

896
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:41,640
Or or or you you have a vote on 
whether it's good or not. 

897
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:45,440
Alright, no, that was a very 
comprehensive one there like 

898
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:46,640
that. 
Well, I was only there for 

899
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:50,680
bloody 14 years and I know about
10% of what I need to know. 

900
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,920
So it's just that's why when 
someone's been mining for 30 or 

901
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:56,280
40 years, you're frigging listen
to what they have to say. 

902
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:00,840
Absolutely, yeah. 
But Trev, we've got one from 

903
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:05,960
Nick Huntley, who are Stam. 
So this is for those who don't 

904
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,200
know Stam. 
As Samuel Terry Asset Management

905
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:11,560
in their last quarterly noted, 
they're now holding a gold 

906
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:14,040
producer. 
Who do you think it is? 

907
00:50:15,240 --> 00:50:17,360
Well, actually did not know 
that. 

908
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:19,520
I didn't read the last 
quarterly. 

909
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:22,960
I read the one before that. 
That's a great question. 

910
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:26,240
Who would stand by there? 
They didn't name it. 

911
00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:30,880
They didn't name who. 
Yeah, apparently don't know, 

912
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:34,080
according to Nick Nye. 
Knowing those guys, it'll be 

913
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:36,440
something funky where there's a 
bunch of latent value that the 

914
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:39,240
market's not quite seeing. 
Yeah. 

915
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:42,760
Like they're, they've got a good
eye, Those those guys. 

916
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:46,000
Not entirely they, they hold a 
bit of gold bullion as well. 

917
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:47,280
Jada. 
Yeah, I could be wrong. 

918
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:49,880
They did last time I read one of
their reports. 

919
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:53,720
Yeah, pretty sure. 
So I, I don't know Ally, I don't

920
00:50:53,720 --> 00:50:55,440
know it'd be. 
Someone left field wouldn't. 

921
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:57,560
It it would be 100% would be 
left field. 

922
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:02,240
They yeah, just find value where
you usually just look past it. 

923
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,720
Value and sort of catalysts 
where they can kind of make 

924
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:06,880
something happen in a way. 
Catalyst is a big one. 

925
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,880
I think they are, yeah, 
exceptionally good at creating 

926
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:11,400
catalysts. 
Yeah. 

927
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:17,640
Like, yeah, if anyone wants to 
look up a just look up Nam on 

928
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:19,960
the ASX, it's Namwa Cotton. 
Namwa Cotton. 

929
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:23,880
Oh, yeah, check, check. 
Just just go over the the series

930
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:26,880
of that company's announcements 
over the last 12 months and I 

931
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:30,320
think you'll kind of see the 
value creation stem are capable 

932
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:34,600
of of creating for shareholders.
It was an announcement almost 

933
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:36,000
every week, so I have a fair 
bit. 

934
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:43,880
Of rating and I'm going to do 
one last quick round table each.

935
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:48,680
I've got a question for each of 
you and after you played a lot 

936
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:50,960
of golf over the summer. 
Break I did. 

937
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,040
Tito trades from 2:00 to US. 
What's Maddie's handicap? 

938
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:57,640
I was 15. 
I got 2 I think sort of. 

939
00:51:57,920 --> 00:51:59,000
Sort of. 
Yeah, yeah. 

940
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:04,600
Now I think I hit 17 the other 
day playing on 15, about 15. 

941
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:06,880
Very good. 
Bloody volatile. 

942
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:13,880
It's like, what stock would I 
compare my golfing to? 

943
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,120
Nah, but the shells I ain't get 
in at the bottom. 

944
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:20,360
What I think is the bottom. 
What would you compare it to? 

945
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:23,360
A. 
Certain uranium company you 

946
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:27,800
hold. 
Maybe yeah it's on and I'd be 

947
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,680
one day the drivers gone good 
and the irons are fucked, then 

948
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:34,080
next day the bloody drivers 
bloody shit itself and I'm 

949
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:37,760
smashing the irons and then 
usually the pot is fucked the 

950
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:38,600
whole time. 
So it's. 

951
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:40,120
Like. 
Good fun. 

952
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,080
Anyone that wants a game on a 
Friday from Galford hit me up I.

953
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:45,640
Love it. 
Actually, I had on a separate 

954
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:47,080
thing I had to think about the 
other day. 

955
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:49,720
We were talking about what's 
like the, the, the finance or 

956
00:52:49,720 --> 00:52:53,600
the the West Perth equivalent of
of word on the decline. 

957
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:55,720
And I think I've thought of it. 
Oh, what is it? 

958
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:57,840
I think it's the WhatsApp on Hay
Street. 

959
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:00,840
What'sapp on Hay Street? 
Yeah, that's good. 

960
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:03,200
I love it. 
That can be for finance Goss. 

961
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:05,800
We can do WhatsApp on Hay. 
Street, Yeah, 'cause everyone's 

962
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:08,560
like. 
WhatsApp send anything on 

963
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:14,840
WhatsApp, it's safe. 
This guy, the guy's one of the 

964
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:17,280
biggest insider trains. 
Yeah, it was in Australia. 

965
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:19,280
Like, don't worry, it's all 
good. 

966
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,400
We're talking on WhatsApp. 
But that's what they wrote in 

967
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:22,800
WhatsApp. 
It's fully. 

968
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:25,400
Encrypted. 
And then you got the Australian 

969
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:29,280
Federal Police reading it all. 
Oh, it's golden. 

970
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,840
Crazy JD, what was your favorite
book you read over the summer 

971
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,200
break? 
Not sure anyone's going to chase

972
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:38,320
me up on this one, but I read a 
book called Kaput. 

973
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:40,120
I spent a bit of time in 
Germany, got family and stuff 

974
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:44,400
from there, and it's on the the 
struggles of the German economy 

975
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:46,760
going forward. 
We've spoken about the energy 

976
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,840
problems, reliance on Russia and
all these sorts of things. 

977
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:54,240
So it was seriously interesting 
talking about a, a lack of 

978
00:53:54,240 --> 00:53:57,880
investment in appropriate 
industries, a lack of sort of 

979
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:02,000
resilience in critical parts of 
your economy. 

980
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:04,280
Yep. 
And getting a bit sort of 

981
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:08,880
sidetracked by certain 
ideologies and and those sorts 

982
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:09,480
of things. 
It was. 

983
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:11,160
It was really interesting. 
Awesome. 

984
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:14,880
And finally, Trev, what was your
favorite dog friendly pub you 

985
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:18,880
visited over the summer? 
Oh, I didn't go to any dog 

986
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:20,480
friendly pubs over there. 
Oh no, I did. 

987
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:24,880
Yeah, it went down to 
Bridgetownish area. 

988
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,480
There was a cider cidery in 
Nanup. 

989
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:30,480
There's like a very cool, No, 
it's Bridgetown. 

990
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:31,760
Bridgetown cidery. 
Yeah, that was. 

991
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:33,080
Just on the outskirts of town 
there. 

992
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:36,400
Yeah, yeah, yeah, years ago. 
It's awesome spot down there. 

993
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:37,560
Yeah, Yeah. 
So that was good. 

994
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:38,840
But what took once there? 
Yeah, it's. 

995
00:54:39,240 --> 00:54:39,760
Good. 
Love it. 

996
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:42,920
Very good guys. 
Thanks for answering all those 

997
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:45,440
questions from the the money 
miners on the fly that. 

998
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:47,120
Was you? 
You hosted so well. 

999
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:48,120
JC No. 
I don't. 

1000
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:50,480
It's such a good body Q&A. 
Moderator. 

1001
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:53,080
They take the. 
Spot at conferences. 

1002
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:59,320
Righty there we go, well 
facilitated as JC. 

1003
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:02,160
You could just dead set consult 
yourself around Perth and the 

1004
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:05,880
Greater Australia being AQ and a
facilitator. 

1005
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:08,600
Oh, that was so well. 
Done so well done. 

1006
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:11,520
Learn tapes too, so. 
What a job we have. 

1007
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,920
I know if today is anything to 
go by. 

1008
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:17,400
We get paid for this. 
It's amazing. 

1009
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:20,080
But. 
Go to the mining industry. 

1010
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:22,840
Oh mate, pay yourself a favour 
as well and get a freaking 

1011
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:25,840
underground operators ticket and
you can pay. 

1012
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:29,600
It's effectively paying yourself
100 bucks because you get $100 

1013
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:34,400
off using the code MOM 100. 
Lincoln is in the show notes the

1014
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:36,720
greatest underground conference 
in the world. 

1015
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:39,520
April 7th the 9th in April in 
Adelaide we've. 

1016
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:42,440
Got to thank the. 
Greatest open pit mining 

1017
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:44,520
contractor ever Mineral mining 
services. 

1018
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:48,320
Greatest camp builder ever 
Grounded. 

1019
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:53,720
The greatest The greatest source
of keeping the rock up 

1020
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:54,960
underground. 
Sam. 

1021
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:56,360
Big ground support. 
Yep. 

1022
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:58,920
Definitely the greatest 
insurance brokers ever. 

1023
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:04,200
See our insurance K drill. 
Like you could say the greatest 

1024
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:07,280
driller ever, but you you would 
say Ron O'Sullivan is the 

1025
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:09,920
greatest bloke ever. 
As well, Yeah. 

1026
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:13,880
Salt Bush contracting the 
greatest bulk college specialist

1027
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:18,240
and the greatest do any shit job
specialist on your mindset. 

1028
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:25,560
Salt Bush contracting sweet jeez
possibly 78 million drill 

1029
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:28,360
meters. 
Possibly the greatest 

1030
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:31,800
underground diamond driller ever
outside Quattro project 

1031
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:34,680
engineering based on everything 
they've invented. 

1032
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:39,280
Just the greatest engineering 
firm ever cross boundary energy.

1033
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:43,800
Well, Tim Taylor's the greatest 
bloke ever that has provided 

1034
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:51,680
independent power solutions and 
on AGC you're the greatest, just

1035
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:53,760
the greatest sidekick on a 
bloody. 

1036
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:55,680
Podcast. 
Outside this week. 

1037
00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:57,360
Good. 
Work. 

1038
00:56:57,360 --> 00:56:59,880
You've been the greatest partner
I've had in the podcast this 

1039
00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:02,800
week. 
This week, your only partner. 

1040
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:07,160
Have a good weekend. 
Money miners tutoring money 

1041
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:11,240
miners. 
Information contained in this 

1042
00:57:11,240 --> 00:57:14,000
episode of Money of Mine is of 
general nature only and does not

1043
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:16,640
take into account the 
objectives, financial situation 

1044
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:18,680
or needs of any particular 
person. 

1045
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:22,040
Before making any investment 
decision, you should consult 

1046
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:25,080
with your financial advisor and 
consider how appropriate the 

1047
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:28,800
advice is to your objectives, 
financial situation and needs.