1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,360 Six months ago lithium was in the doldrums and now I look at 2 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:04,760 the lithium equities and they are not in the doldrums. 3 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:06,440 Has the world changed? Is lithium. 4 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:08,119 Hot again. The change we've seen in six 5 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,720 months is quite amazing. So lithium has been running of 6 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:18,760 late and Travis Ricciardo, big mining, M&A is back on the 7 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:20,200 scene. Boy, have we got a bit to talk 8 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,600 about today. There's a couple stories that 9 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:24,800 are front of mine. Of course, nothing can trump the 10 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:29,320 the headline that is BHP coming back for Anglo, but not before 11 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:31,320 they've withdrawn. They're coming back for Anglo 12 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:33,200 already. I've got a hot take and that's 13 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:34,120 it. They'll come back again. 14 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:35,600 I'm keen to talk about that. Mate. 15 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:37,200 You've been going deep on lithium. 16 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:40,880 I'm excited to talk about lithium, mate A, you know, a 17 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,960 returning mine, the Jung Shi Wu mine, which has been wreaking 18 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:45,960 havoc in the lithium market for quite some time. 19 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:48,160 And we've got a few Agms that we ducked into. 20 00:00:48,160 --> 00:00:50,760 We might get on to them if we've got time later on too. 21 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:52,360 Keen to talk about those Agms JD. 22 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:56,120 Alrighty BHB Anglo mate. I will lead us in here and give 23 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,120 a bit of bit of context. So these these two famous 24 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:03,800 companies, the big Australian and South Africa's most famous 25 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:07,720 miner with a with a fantastic long and complicated history. 26 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:11,600 And it looks like BHB has come back to the dance floor on this 27 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:13,280 one. Or maybe they never left. 28 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,320 You know, so famously they were they were flirting with one 29 00:01:16,320 --> 00:01:19,720 another throughout 2024. BHB tabled an offer. 30 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,240 It was a very kind of public affair as it all kind of 31 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:24,520 emerged. That was version 1. 32 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,640 Then it was kind of put to bed. And then on Sunday, Bloomberg 33 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:31,040 broke this story that the deal is back on. 34 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:35,040 BHB has tried to engage with the Anglo board. 35 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,360 They have engaged, they've tabled an offer, but lo and 36 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:40,320 behold, they have been rejected. We find out within about 12 37 00:01:40,320 --> 00:01:41,800 hours. So it was good while it lasted. 38 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,080 We all sort of woke up here, Western time in, in Perth, in 39 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:48,640 Australia to seeing a kind of double take of headlines. 40 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,480 BHB is back on and then it's off again. 41 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,240 Now there's a few rules to know about this one, which we'll, 42 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,480 we'll kind of get into with the, the UK takeover rules. 43 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:02,240 But yeah, you've got a, you've got a hot take and a bit more 44 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:04,480 context to share on this one. So lead us in mate. 45 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:06,240 There's, there's quite a bit to this one. 46 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:07,720 Oh, and I'll add one more detail. 47 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:12,760 The the proposed deal that was tabled was a share, shares and 48 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,160 cash deal with no quantum being shared. 49 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:18,160 So we don't know what the exact value on that one was, but we're 50 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,840 going to try and infer a few things and spin a bit of yarn 51 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:22,400 about this one mate. Yeah, we don't know. 52 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,680 We don't know what the value was right, But we do know that that, 53 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,640 that the last deal that was sort of tabled, the implied value was 54 00:02:28,640 --> 00:02:32,000 like 4949 billion US for, for Anglo. 55 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:36,840 Now Anglo trades today around like 42 billion Anglo's embarked 56 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,320 on some sort of simplification like model since. 57 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:41,880 So look, look who knows? I, I think, I think the, the 58 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,040 implied offer was probably north of that, but, but while this 59 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:47,600 looks like a retreat on paper, mate, I'm not, I'm not buying 60 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:49,080 it. I think BHP is coming back. 61 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,320 So forget, forget the type UK takeover mechanics for just a 62 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:53,440 moment. Bear with me. 63 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:57,680 I'm going to talk about the rationale of why BHP needs this 64 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:01,720 or we'll, we'll, we'll do this. Look at the statement out from 65 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:05,040 BHP themselves. So Monday morning they come out 66 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,480 with this, this statement saying that, you know, they're, 67 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:11,560 they're, they're with no, that the deal is not on and, and what 68 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,600 are they, what are they state in this, in this kind of, in this, 69 00:03:15,640 --> 00:03:18,640 this one pager, they say. Whilst BHP continues to believe 70 00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:21,760 that a combination with Anglo American would have had strong 71 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,160 strategic merits and created significant value for all 72 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:28,360 stakeholders, BHP is confident in the highly compelling 73 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,320 potential of its own growth strategy, own organic growth 74 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,680 strategy. OK, so they talk about their own 75 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:37,760 organic growth strategy. Let's take a look at that 76 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,400 organic growth strategy because BHP themselves were very 77 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:44,160 transparent about their organic copper growth strategy. 78 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:46,920 In a Chile site, there's a copper deck 12 months ago, 79 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:49,880 almost exactly 12 months ago. And what they included in this, 80 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:54,040 in this deck 12 months ago that they put out publicly is this 81 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,640 slide showing the capital intensity of their organic 82 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:00,720 copper growth in Chile. Look at the cost of it roughly 83 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,440 and I'm rounding, I'm rounding here, but roughly 30,000 U.S. 84 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,480 dollars per incremental tonne of, of copper production. 85 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:13,120 So that is, that is the reality of their organic copper growth 86 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:15,760 pipeline. Incremental tons are extremely 87 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:19,560 capital intensive. Now if BHP could lock in that 88 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,520 that cost, just say commit and know with certainty that they're 89 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:26,960 going to pay $30,000 per ton US additional organic copper growth 90 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,120 or copper production. So for those for those kind of 91 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,760 wondering, we're talking about the upfront CapEx you need to 92 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,040 spend to get these tons incremental. 93 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,040 Ton and these are brownfields expansion too. 94 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:39,600 But but the reality of, of that capital is it is uncertain. 95 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:41,920 You're making an estimate based on the best information you have 96 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,240 at a point in time, right? And and if they could, if they 97 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,760 could have certainty around that, maybe I would believe the 98 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,840 rhetoric that the BHP is not coming back again. 99 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:54,520 But but I but, but these are, these are numbers with 100 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:58,800 uncertainty and it's just the reality of, of capital projects. 101 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,680 The real cost is uncertain and it almost always blows out. 102 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:07,160 BHP is starkly aware of this too, because in the exact same 103 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:11,400 presentation, they include this slide which shows the rapid rate 104 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:15,320 at which brownfields expansions are getting starkly more expense 105 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:17,000 expensive over time. Like this. 106 00:05:17,280 --> 00:05:21,520 This chart shows you Latin American capital intensity of 107 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:27,760 copper growth for brownfields projects has soared by 65% in 108 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:30,040 real dollar terms. So, you know, adjusting for 109 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:35,360 inflation over the last decade. In other words, organic is not 110 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:37,400 cheap and it's not getting cheaper. 111 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,160 It's slow, it's political, it's uncertain and it's capital 112 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,160 heavy. Anglo's copper is here today. 113 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,960 It's quicker, it's cleaner, it's more scalable. 114 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:52,680 BHP's organic copper intensity is skyrocketing and by the, and 115 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:54,160 this is by their own admission rights. 116 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:58,640 So buying existing copper tons from Anglo or by buying Anglo, 117 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,400 in my opinion, it's rational. It's not necessarily 118 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,080 opportunistic. This is rational and the 119 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:08,160 opportunity cost of walking away on the other hand is actually 120 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,880 quite high, which is which is why I don't believe this is a 121 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,360 genuine walk away. Here's the other thing too, 122 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:15,720 right? Remember when the Anglo Tech 123 00:06:15,840 --> 00:06:19,800 deal emerged and one of the slides there talks about the, 124 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,760 the annual synergies of of $800 million per annum of our 125 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:27,640 supposed synergies in the Anglo Tech deal because of the, the, 126 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,720 the operational synergies between QB and Colossi. 127 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:34,080 Well, there's no doubt in my mind that those synergies are 128 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,080 available to an interloper like BHP 2, because it's clearly 129 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,720 going to be very like very clear economic rationale for JV to 130 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:42,840 exist there now. So yeah. 131 00:06:42,840 --> 00:06:44,280 Just need to get all the parties online. 132 00:06:44,280 --> 00:06:46,160 It's not like those synergies are exclusive to these two 133 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:51,520 companies merging. So why should the market assume 134 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,440 this isn't a genuine walkway to to kind of elaborate on, on the 135 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,520 point you've just made and maybe just touch on the, the UK 136 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:59,960 takeover rules which we've we've alluded to there? 137 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:05,840 So UK, UK takeover laws, it's like put up, shut up, and yet 138 00:07:05,840 --> 00:07:08,160 you're effectively you're sidelined for six months for 139 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:13,760 making another, another bid. There are exceptions to that as 140 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:17,240 well, right? The code itself lists the escape 141 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,680 hatches. So there's like board consent, A 142 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,720 rival firm offer, or a Rule 9 waiver proposal that fails. 143 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:28,640 Plus, Angler sort of lets them. Plus like the other thing to 144 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,080 think about here too is that the, the timeline on the tech 145 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:36,040 angler deal itself, this is a deal that's not going to be 146 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,840 complete in six months. There's a very long period of 147 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:43,000 time that this deal is kind of like, you know, in, in the mix 148 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,400 just because of the, the lengthy approvals that are required from 149 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:51,080 various different, you know, regulatory, you know, 150 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:53,760 competition, etcetera, all of these different approvals that 151 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:55,000 they need. So I think there's still 152 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,600 probably like 12 months to go before this deal completes. 153 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:02,200 So BHP can come back in six months and mount, you know, more 154 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:03,520 shareholder pressure in the interim. 155 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:06,960 And I think make a, make a, make another, another go at this. 156 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:11,240 So BHP they've turned up twice and you don't do that unless the 157 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:13,880 the strategic itch is very real and strong. 158 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,880 The long term kind of copper narrative inside BHP has not 159 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:20,640 changed in 24 hours. I think like situations like 160 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,600 this, they, they almost never present themselves. 161 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:27,040 This is this is a global diversified major under pressure 162 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,200 mid transformation with a world class South American copper 163 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:33,799 footprint and it's in play. If you want this portfolio, you 164 00:08:33,799 --> 00:08:36,799 have to be bold and you have to move while it's in play. 165 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:41,120 Because think of BHP for for over a decade they've been 166 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,560 shouting from the rooftops how horny they are for copper. 167 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,920 In in October 2026, they even published a piece titled The 168 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:52,640 Bullish Thesis for Copper. 2016, yeah. 20/20/2016 So they've 169 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:55,240 deviated like this has been over a decade that they have been 170 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:59,000 like shouting how how much they how bullish they are copper. 171 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:00,800 We spoke about it with Hugh Makai, Yeah. 172 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,520 It's, it's clear, it's clear that, you know, internally this 173 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:06,880 is the commodity that, that they want more of. 174 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:13,800 So look, am I supposed to believe that in the, in the very 175 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,360 short window that, that a phenomenal world class cup of 176 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:21,240 portfolio becomes gettable that the BHP is gonna, gonna, gonna 177 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,960 let it get away from them? I, I, I don't believe that this 178 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:26,800 is a, yeah, a world class portfolio. 179 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:28,880 They're going to have to open the wallet and pay an 180 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,680 uncomfortable price to get it. Now that's the, that's the bit 181 00:09:31,680 --> 00:09:33,920 the BHP is going to have to contend with is paying an 182 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:37,240 uncomfortable price. But I'm going to wager that will 183 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,080 do just that. JD I like it. 184 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:43,240 I'll also wager that it'll be worth it, but you know, time 185 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,240 will prove that wrong or right. Time, time indeed will prove 186 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,680 that one wrong or right. Yeah, the, the capital intensity 187 00:09:48,680 --> 00:09:51,360 is a fascinating point that needs to be obviously contrasted 188 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:53,680 with what you're paying to get the assets. 189 00:09:53,680 --> 00:09:58,680 And yeah, there's a bit of detail in what BHB would do with 190 00:09:58,680 --> 00:10:01,240 the assets that they don't want within, within Anglo. 191 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:05,000 Obviously Anglo's kind of try to RIP themselves apart to on the 192 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,560 back of the BHB deal last year, but a lot to play out there. 193 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,480 They've made themselves more attractive in the process. 194 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,520 They've they've, I mean, they've divested the PGM business at 195 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,000 cyclical lows. They've clearly got something in 196 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,320 the works with the beers, which, you know, we'll see that kind of 197 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,960 business divested. Got close to I met Cole and met 198 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,960 Cole. Yeah, I mean, they fumble the 199 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:29,440 footy a bit, but but it's, you know, it's, it's, it's there 200 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:31,440 for, it's there for BHP. They're gonna have to make their 201 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:35,040 mark. But I yeah, I think this is, I 202 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,400 think this is the kind of do you regret not doing rather than 203 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,120 regret doing. That's that's my hunch. 204 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,160 What do you reckon? You hate paying out for stuff, 205 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:42,560 don't you? I do. 206 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:45,520 Indeed, I do indeed. Eyes on tech as well though and 207 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,680 see what would happen out of the the back of disruption here 208 00:10:48,680 --> 00:10:50,520 whether somebody else tries to well. 209 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:54,480 BHP coming for Anglo makes Rio getting going for tech a lot 210 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:55,720 easier. Exactly. 211 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:57,760 Exactly. I think there's a lot of water 212 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,040 to go into the bridge. And yeah, just like you said, 18 213 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:01,800 months from when the deal was first announced that they 214 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,680 thought it would get done, which is a long, long time. 215 00:11:04,680 --> 00:11:08,280 And a deal like Anglo BHB would have a lot of approvals and 216 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,960 hopes to jump through as well. But we'll sort of wait and see. 217 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:14,400 Six months, yeah, it's not that long in the scheme of things in, 218 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:16,600 you know, to, to emphasize the point you made. 219 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaking about how short six months is made, six months ago 220 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:22,960 lithium was in the doldrums and now I look at the lithium 221 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,480 equities and they are not in the doldrums. 222 00:11:25,560 --> 00:11:28,160 Has the world changed? Is lithium hot again? 223 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,000 You know, I was thinking about what's going on in lithium and 224 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:33,960 what you've just kind of said there is how I kind of tied up 225 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,240 this story. The the change we've seen in six 226 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,160 months is quite amazing. I'll start from the the 227 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:41,640 beginning though. So lithium has been running of 228 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:43,560 late. And in particular, one week ago, 229 00:11:43,560 --> 00:11:47,000 we saw the chair from Young Fang Li Liang Bin come out with these 230 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:51,000 very, very punchy comments talking up specifically the ESS, 231 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:55,040 the energy stationary storage component of lithium demand. 232 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,840 And he, he pretty much said the price is going to boom, it's 233 00:11:57,840 --> 00:11:59,800 going to double in the next year. 234 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,480 And everyone got excited the, the defects, which is these 235 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:07,200 Chinese futures for, for lithium, they shot up limit up 236 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,680 9% on the day. So they've obviously performed 237 00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:14,360 very, very strongly. You had further good news with 238 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,640 the Minarez deal. People quite excited about the 239 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:21,560 price that Minarez got for the 30% sell down of their operating 240 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:23,960 assets there. So I think there was sort of 241 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,360 positive sentiment all around. And if you look on the focus 242 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:30,840 charts right here, mate, we're showing Lyontown, IGO, Pilbara 243 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,040 and Allevra, which is the old say Sarona. 244 00:12:33,560 --> 00:12:37,480 And just look at the share price tier between call it N10 and 245 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,480 N20. Lyontown is you know, it's 246 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,520 closed above $1.60 for the first time in a long time. 247 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,200 Hilbra's traded over 4 bucks. 10 line town. 248 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,720 Sorry, IGO has traded well north of 7 bucks. 249 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,080 This is this is boom times again. 250 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:56,680 Despite the price being in the low one thousands, Kilbra is up 251 00:12:56,680 --> 00:13:01,240 nearly four times from its lows a little while ago, and it's 252 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:05,720 trading at an enterprise value of 12:00-ish billion dollars. 253 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:12,320 Like some of these numbers are truly kind of astounding to for 254 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:14,960 the the lithium price environment in which we're in. 255 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,320 Is this, do these valuations make sense or is this just 256 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:20,840 muscle memory of of people who remember you know where things 257 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,960 go in? They they make no sense. 258 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,080 They make no sense to me personally, but I'm sure there's 259 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,440 lithium bulls out there with would completely justify. 260 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:30,720 But there's a lot more interesting stuff that has 261 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,440 happened in the market. So Min Res and Lintown have 262 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:39,160 talked about selling parcels at about 12:50 SE-6 equivalent that 263 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,600 line Town 1 was dated for for January. 264 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,960 So that's one more interesting kind of anecdote that we've 265 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,080 seen. But you've also got kind of 266 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,760 cautious buyers of the physical product in the market reading 267 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:55,280 the kind of Chinese trade blogs and what what's out there. 268 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,720 A lot of people physically were were stepping back from the 269 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,080 market not wanting to to pay up, which is another kind of 270 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,280 interesting detail to to jot down. 271 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,520 That said, we are kind of seeing destocking of of infantries more 272 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:11,120 more broadly. Add to that a lot of investment 273 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,480 banks now we've we've kind of shared our thoughts on on 274 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,320 commodity price forecasting in general a whole bunch in the 275 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:21,560 past, but Baron Joey of note lifted their forecast to 3250 276 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,360 bucks next year. That's almost the 3X from where 277 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:25,680 we are today. Bold. 278 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:27,720 That is very. Bold to say the least. 279 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,440 Another interesting detail, a particularly interesting detail 280 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:36,880 is that Gangfang and Tianchi, their stocks have not flown like 281 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:39,640 the Western names have. So Gangfang over the last month 282 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,400 is down 10% and Tianchi is roughly flat. 283 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,400 Compare that with the names I just mentioned as well as SQM, 284 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:51,240 which is up 30% over the past month and Albemarle pretty 285 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:55,080 similar since early November that that's a real divergent and 286 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,360 that's there's something quite, quite interesting to to kind of 287 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,200 think about and and try and understand. 288 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,320 So there's obviously a number of different factors apply, one 289 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,680 being the short interest. We've seen a real ratcheting 290 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,920 down of the short interest in the Aussie Lithium names. 291 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,280 You've also got the the retail shareholder interest, which is 292 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,160 very strong in the Aussie lithium names. 293 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:19,120 And I think that's one of the reasons why we've seen a real 294 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:23,840 beating up of of their equities. And the last detail is that that 295 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,200 anti involution kind of component when it comes to the 296 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,080 Chinese names. We spoke about this specifically 297 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,440 in the context of the Jiang Shiwu mine, which is cattle's 298 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:36,040 mine, which is a pretty decent scale operation in the scheme of 299 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,520 global lithium production. Some people call it kind of 3% 300 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:43,880 ish of global lithium supply. Now, what I'm talking about 301 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,240 there is that that that whole story we spoke about a few 302 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:49,840 months ago of the the Chinese government stepping down and 303 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:52,920 saying how you need to ratchet up your environmental processes, 304 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,800 all these sorts of things. Essentially clamping down on 305 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,800 kind of a bit more wild behavior and, and professionalizing 306 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,600 industry and stopping at the end of the day, the the crazy price 307 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,600 wars that Chinese players were were having with one another. 308 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,200 Now, not everyone kind of buys into that, but that was a 309 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,800 narrative that was very kind of prevalent throughout the 310 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,840 industry, so. What what are we what are what 311 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:20,240 are we missing then mate that. Well, the, the, the bow to all 312 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:22,840 of this kind of narrative of this beautiful sentiment and 313 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,320 lithium running up is that over the weekend cattle come out and 314 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,400 say, hey, you know what, we're going to restart Jungshi Wu. 315 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,640 We might be able to do it next month if if all our ducks kind 316 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:36,800 of line up and all of a sudden the GFX futures are limit down, 317 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:41,000 spot falls almost 8%. All the lithium names in on the 318 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,040 ISX and and abroad just get hammered. 319 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:46,880 So yeah, a wild, wild kind of couple weeks. 320 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:48,280 And who kind of knows where this goes. 321 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:50,480 Who knows how serious the Chinese government is about 322 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,880 these permits and everything. There was a a price tag floating 323 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,040 around of what cattle would have to pay to get the permit and all 324 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,240 of that in aligned. But I think the the more 325 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,640 interesting kind of point to make is especially in the 326 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,760 context of Barringer putting this pretty, pretty ballsy price 327 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:09,440 target out there is like, is China going to be OK with the 328 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:10,640 prices just running up like that? 329 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,680 Again, Remember that narrative we spoke about for quite some 330 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:15,240 time? Or China would just turn the tap 331 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:17,800 on And they're always going to be be able to put that lipid 332 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:21,040 light supply back into the market to hamper down to damper 333 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,000 down supply rather to make sure that the price doesn't run away 334 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,040 so that downstream the EV makers, all these players out 335 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:28,880 there don't get washed away on price. 336 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:32,640 So that that is one thing in the back of my mind and it makes it 337 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:34,720 makes me particularly curious to see some of these investment 338 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,560 banks come out with real strong price targets for the pretty 339 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,240 immediate future. When I sort of, you know, air 340 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:43,200 out all these kind of thoughts. What do you kind of take on 341 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,800 board mate? What do you think of the the 342 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,480 pretty astounding run up we've seen in in some of these lithium 343 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:53,320 names? I think it's fun like, yeah, I 344 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,440 like I, you know, whether whether the valuations make 345 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:03,000 sense or not, like it almost doesn't matter as much because 346 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,520 lithium for as long as I we can remember it. 347 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,400 So it's these stocks have traded so much on sentiment and, and 348 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:13,200 like, yeah, where where people think that prices are going to 349 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,760 go or where where people think that investors or speculators or 350 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:18,640 retail are going to move to or whatnot. 351 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:22,480 And I think, I think, I think it's just the same old, same old 352 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,400 here. I hope it's I hope it's a true 353 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,600 balance, but you never know, mate. 354 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,680 I. I think that's that is what the 355 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:33,800 market has done more broadly as well over the past five, 1015 356 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:35,400 years. Things just trade on flows, on 357 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:39,000 sentiment, on liquidity, and lithium does that more so than 358 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,080 most others flushing out there. They're definitely sorry. 359 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,880 They're definitely people like we know who like, maybe weren't. 360 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,840 Yeah, like, like, like invested to the extent that they thought 361 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:51,760 they should have been in the last likely people market. 362 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,440 And then they say green shirts. And like, this is the moment, 363 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,720 you know, better, better, better buy like and get long. 364 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,960 And you're buying on valuations that are maybe pricing in, you 365 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,560 know, prices that are beyond where they are right now. 366 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,320 However, like the market is so small, it doesn't take too much 367 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:07,360 demand to really move the needle. 368 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,200 Couldn't agree more. That's the point I want to close 369 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,080 on. When you, you know, open the 370 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,400 segment you asked about, you know, is it a time to buy and 371 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,840 these sorts of things? Six months ago was the time to 372 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:18,600 buy all this stuff. That's when it was hated. 373 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:22,080 And I know we we come from a real, a real value lens when we 374 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,240 look at these these opportunities, but. 375 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:25,960 You could have bought a month that got pretty good valuations, 376 00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:28,480 but. Right now you're flushing out 377 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,160 already 1500 plus on a lot of these names. 378 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,480 So you are, you know, baking in upside. 379 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,520 But what do we know, mate? We'll we'll see what the the 380 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:41,080 flows and the sentiment does around these names and maybe 381 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:42,720 we'll be proven wrong over the coming months. 382 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:45,880 No, we're, we might, we own a lithium stock now. 383 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:47,440 So we're actually OK for happy for it to go. 384 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:48,120 Up. Ding Ding, Ding. 385 00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:50,240 We do. All right mate, Speaking of 386 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:52,920 things that people should own, people should own Sandy Ground 387 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,280 support. They should, they should, they 388 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,120 should get long, Derek Heard, the fantastic team at Sandy 389 00:19:58,120 --> 00:20:01,640 Ground support servicing the entire Australasian market from 390 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:03,080 none other than Newcastle, Australia. 391 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:04,960 It's not just the entire Australasian market. 392 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,160 This is a this is a global mining division of Sandy which 393 00:20:08,360 --> 00:20:11,800 provide well keep keeps people safe by putting ground support 394 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,840 in underground mines. It is an absolute essential mate 395 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,680 across the globe and any time that we ever think about bolts, 396 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:20,960 I think of Derek. Any time we think about ground 397 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:24,200 support, I think of Derek. And when I think of Derek, I 398 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,120 think of Sandvik. When I think of Sandvik, I think 399 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,600 go, Sandvik, go. Sandvik If you want the greatest 400 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,240 ground support in the industry at your Mind site, get in the 401 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,600 show details, click on Sandvik Ground Support or download the 402 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:36,920 app. There's an app. 403 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:38,080 There's an app, mate. Oh. 404 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,000 Jeez, hang on, two seconds. Got the app. 405 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,560 There we go, mate. All right, Agms, it's AGM 406 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:46,880 season. Shall we talk? 407 00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:48,440 We've got a couple to talk about here. 408 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:50,080 Should we go? Should we go? 409 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,560 Min raise to start well. Hey, let's just, let's lead in. 410 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,560 We, we, we made an effort this this year to go to a bunch of 411 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,640 Agms. And these are, yeah, we've got a 412 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,360 bunch in our diary that we haven't gone to yet that we're 413 00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:03,800 still going to go to in the last week of AGM season. 414 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,400 But we've been to like 6-6 or so like already. 415 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,320 And and we've gone like we've picked out Agms of companies 416 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:14,200 that that we generally don't see too much of from an investor 417 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,400 facing perspective because they don't do quarterly calls. 418 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,920 But they they sort of weren't, you know, our attention because 419 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:21,760 they're they're large, they're corporately active, they're 420 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,280 doing stuff. And so we picked out a bunch of 421 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,680 Agms that we've been to, we're going to min rest doesn't fit in 422 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,600 the category of of being being hard to find out investor stuff. 423 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,560 I mean, the AGM streamed and everything that we just want. 424 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,840 That's just like a must attend. We had to go to that one. 425 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:39,280 Yeah. So we went to a bunch of others 426 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:43,200 and to your point, learn stuff at each one of them, learned a 427 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,320 lot at every single one of them. So it's well worth going and to 428 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:50,840 the point you made a few weeks ago on the show, Get down if you 429 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,400 own shares and one of them get down because there is stuff to 430 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,120 be learned. I reckon we should kick off by 431 00:21:55,120 --> 00:21:57,640 sharing a couple of thoughts on Minres. 432 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,800 Yep, Yep. So the big story is Ellison's 433 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,000 staying. Was that that wasn't that wasn't 434 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,680 really a story from the IT. Was it was confirmation from the 435 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:06,920 company? I didn't. 436 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:07,960 I don't think that was a headline. 437 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,440 Like, I know it was a headline, but I don't think that was like 438 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,960 news, if you know what I mean. What, what kind of tops that 439 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,400 coming out of it? To be honest, I just thought 440 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:22,240 that the company turn around like tops that yeah, like we we 441 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,600 were there 12 months ago, very different situation like a lot 442 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,720 more uncertainty, ambiguity that state of the business. 443 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,800 Clearly, clearly the the the business is in a lot better, a 444 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:33,400 lot better health. Like there's a lot a lot of the 445 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,600 uncertainty stuff is there over the hill in in a lot of respects 446 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,840 that the balance sheet looks like, you know, especially in 447 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,200 the wake of the the 30% sell down of the lithium business 448 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,160 deposit code. Like it looks it looks 449 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,600 completely out of control. And I think, I think things are 450 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:50,560 on the up from a, from an operational performance 451 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,440 perspective and, and financial performance perspective. 452 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:58,280 And there's just a lot, lot less uncertainty on the, on the, the 453 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,040 ramp up kind of deliverables there. 454 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,760 Yes, we're going into summer. But the thing I keep thinking 455 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,680 about is, you know, even when they were doing repairs on that 456 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,640 road, their ability to get tons to ship tons really surprised 457 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,320 me. The upside and these iron ore 458 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,640 prices, they're they're, they're killing it. 459 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,680 Yeah, I think you've hit all the notes there. 460 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,400 They've fetched a greater price than the street thought they 461 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,440 would for that sell down of the lithium business. 462 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,960 That does wonders for the balance sheet. 463 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,000 It's, you know, it's still a stretch, but no longer as bad as 464 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,840 it once was. There's been a lot of turnover 465 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:34,240 at the board. That's, that's kind of no 466 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:38,040 secret, but I thought Mal Bundy did a great job and I think he's 467 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,880 really reassured a lot of investors out there. 468 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,160 And the, yeah, the whole, the whole vibe about the place was 469 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,720 it was quite different. I think the, the business is in 470 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,360 a much steadier footing and what they've delivered today at 471 00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:53,880 Onslow, it has been nothing but but impressive. 472 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,720 And let's see how that kind of continues and let's see how they 473 00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,600 execute on some of the growth goals which we know they've all 474 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,120 got deep down and on what they want to do with Onslow. 475 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,920 Yeah, yeah. So to your point on on Allison 476 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,480 staying or leaving, I did go to Joe Aston's breakfast on Friday 477 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,560 last week in Perth and he alluded to a situation in which 478 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,720 he does leave, but I'll see if that one pans out before I 479 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,480 speculate on it. More to be said on that one. 480 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,840 OK, deep yellow. Next up, we weren't allowed to 481 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,360 intend this one. No visitors were allowed to 482 00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:29,040 intend attend this one, but there has been some interesting 483 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,400 kind of shenanigans that this business of late hasn't there. 484 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,840 Yeah. So, so like this first came when 485 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:36,400 our radar is an AGM worth going to. 486 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,680 Well, OK, John Boshop's departure in the lead up did 487 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,080 seem clearly like suspicious and abrupt. 488 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,440 You know, you don't have a tenured kind of person like like 489 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:47,960 John Boshop just depart effective immediately without 490 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,160 knowing that this guy was showing the door. 491 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,320 So why was he showing the door? What did what did the board 492 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,560 disagree with him about? All mysterious and never really 493 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,760 got answered. And then you see yeah, like a 494 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:02,440 few days before the AGM 33 kind of, you know, high profile 495 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:08,440 shareholders all, all kind of lodge an initial substantial 496 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,240 shareholder in concert together. Because they, they basically, 497 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,920 you know, in this, in this, in this announcement or in this, in 498 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,120 this disclosure reveal that they have an intention to, to 499 00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:20,880 requisition a shareholder meeting to vote on a change in 500 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,080 the board, which is a Section 249-D effectively. 501 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,400 So we're thinking, OK, shareholders are having a, 502 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,280 having a crack here and they want to, they want to air their 503 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,520 frustration in the, in the, in John Borscht's departure. 504 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:36,360 Then we see this article in the, in the AFR as well where David 505 00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:37,600 Paradise, one of these three shareholders. 506 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,240 So he paired up with Sol Patz and McMillan. 507 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,600 David Paradise, who doesn't speak up very often, by the way. 508 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:47,000 Like, I wouldn't describe Paradise as an activist or even, 509 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,240 like, you know, really much of A vocal publicly shareholder. 510 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,240 But he says, I'm sending a few of our people to go and have a 511 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,560 crack at them tomorrow. That's a big statement from 512 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:57,680 David Paradise, I thought. I like that. 513 00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,800 It was good, good, good. Unfortunately we couldn't 514 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,960 witness the the crack that was had at them because we weren't 515 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:04,320 allowed in. By the way, I think this is an 516 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:10,000 absolute load of shit to any any company that just like blocks 517 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,160 out visitors or not or non shareholders from actually 518 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,160 coming along to the to to to an AGM or an AGM. 519 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,600 I've seen it three times only and all three times they were 520 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:20,880 hiding something mate. So. 521 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:23,240 Yeah, I couldn't, I couldn't agree more. 522 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:28,200 It's, it's deplorable to to not let visitors or media, whoever 523 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,320 come on down and, you know, whether that be from from nerves 524 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,760 from the board or, or whatever, just let the people in, you 525 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,760 know, you've, you've got to stick by the decision you've 526 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,440 made. Will John Borshoff return? 527 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,360 I think it's the bigger kind of question to be answered here. 528 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,520 And yeah, I think I think there's kind of question marks 529 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,800 to that one because obviously the shareholders got together on 530 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,920 that point, but they haven't called an AGM yet. 531 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,880 They haven't gone that step. We saw the voting come at the 532 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,600 back and we'll flash it on the on the screen so you can see how 533 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,080 how shareholders actually voted. So we're talking 20% against a 534 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,080 couple of directors, 40% against another. 535 00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:04,760 And then there's a couple loans that copped a heavy vote 536 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,480 against, but that's not enough. I did. 537 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:14,560 Jump Borsroff's loan shares. Yeah, none of that is enough for 538 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:19,120 any of those directors not to be reelected or anything like that. 539 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,280 And now we kind of sit and wait and see whether they do put 540 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:26,240 forward an AGM Section 249-D and try and have another crack at 541 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,720 overthrowing the board and perhaps invite a few more 542 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,240 investors onto their ticket to to vote against these things. 543 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:33,480 open-ended question there. TBA, right? 544 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,960 A couple of a couple of gold companies we went to their their 545 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,080 Agms because we've talked about them plenty and we don't really 546 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:42,360 never really met some of these people. 547 00:27:42,360 --> 00:27:47,280 So like vault in Genesis, the the whole battle for Leonora 548 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,960 was, you know, at the time fault was called Silver Lake. 549 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,120 But but that's the management team. 550 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:53,880 We we never, we never met these people. 551 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,480 We never met Luke Duncan. I don't think you can find video 552 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,800 footage of Luke Duncan online. Like maybe you can, maybe you 553 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,240 can't, but but we never hear his voice in any calls or anything 554 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,520 like that. Like when when Silverlight 555 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,480 merged with Red, he didn't speak in that on that call or 556 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,560 anything. No diggers, prezzos, nothing 557 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:14,080 like that. So, but yeah, so but then it was 558 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,480 his last AGM because he's announced his resignation and he 559 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,880 was quite likeable, mate. He was actually, he was. 560 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,720 He won a sofa. I, I learnt a lot at both the 561 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,880 Genesis and the Vault Agms. And I thought, you know, to your 562 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:32,200 point on Tonkin, the way handled, you know, a plethora of 563 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:36,000 questions from, from investors and investor in particular was, 564 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,960 yeah, it was fascinating. Love the opportunity to speak 565 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,640 with management of these companies after the meeting to 566 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,360 ask a few questions and these sorts of things. 567 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:47,880 And yeah, it was fantastic to put faces to a lot of the names 568 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,240 that we've spoken so much about over the past couple of years. 569 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,480 Genesis another one where unless you go to the AGM like it's, 570 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,960 it's hard to to to tune into the what's going on at the company 571 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,880 unless you're, you know, and and insto who gets to that the 572 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:06,200 rundown very frequently. But but also that was that like 573 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:07,880 that was that was very informative for me. 574 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,680 And, and subsequent to the, to that AGM, they did get a, a, a, 575 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:17,720 you know, a rail user agreement, agreement to, to, to shorten the 576 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,520 length of the, the rail, the rails of the terminus is, is 577 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,680 earliest effectively allowing Tower Hill to kind of move 578 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,600 forward in, in, in, in the full kind of stage 1 and stage two 579 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,760 way down the track, which, which is, which is really transformed. 580 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,640 And that's going to be their best or body that they'll have 581 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,280 to mind. It was the first time I thought 582 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,920 maybe Genesis isn't expensive, maybe because I understood the 583 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,400 business in a better way. What a contrast in management 584 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,920 styles between Vault and Genesis. 585 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:44,880 Totally, Yeah. That that really stuck out to 586 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:46,840 me. But but both valid, you know 587 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,880 like yeah. Absolutely each set around. 588 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,840 The other reason we went to Genesis and Vault it is of 589 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,000 course because I keep speculating that there's going 590 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,960 to be a merger between these two companies. 591 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,760 JD hasn't happened yet. Maybe my timing is off, but it's 592 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:02,960 going to come. And here's my here's my thesis, 593 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,800 right? Well, the thesis as well is 594 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,920 obvious the synergies, but but here's my thesis of why I think 595 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,360 it happens like sooner rather than later. 596 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,920 When we were at the vault AGM, even though Tonks was over, 597 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:19,840 there was no mention of a succession plan, no mention of 598 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,560 an executive search to find a new MD, no mention of like, you 599 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,840 know, even internal, like the whole topic was just like not 600 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,920 addressed. So that's one piece of 601 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:32,400 information. I wonder if they're actually is 602 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,480 going to be, you know, a new MD after Tonkin or if it's really 603 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:40,120 his departure is just like a timer to an inevitable deal with 604 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,000 with Genesis. The other thing too is bolts 605 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,040 gone like owner operator on a bunch of on all of their assets. 606 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:52,080 So deflector king of the hill. So they moved to go like owner 607 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:53,760 operator. There is that because you've got 608 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,000 Genesis mining services, so you can just port over their own 609 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,680 existing owner operator model when and then measure genesis. 610 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:03,200 That's another thing in my head and what else has been going on? 611 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,160 OK. So imagine if black these two 612 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,160 companies had discussions in the past and they couldn't quite get 613 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:11,600 there on like on on bid R spread or subsequent to that Vault's 614 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,960 done this like announced A buyback stock re rated it's sort 615 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,040 of outperformed Genesis on since the buyback. 616 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,720 So maybe that's like the the premium that happens before a 617 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,800 deal to enable kind of like a more nil premium kind of merger 618 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,400 between these two companies? Make it more palatable to. 619 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,440 Vault shareholders, Maybe. Maybe. 620 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,600 Anyway, these are the things ruminating in my head, and I'd 621 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,600 convince myself that we were going to say something before 622 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,360 Christmas. Now I no longer think that, but 623 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:39,680 you never know. You just never know. 624 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,560 Tower Hill getting closer to being milled. 625 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:45,720 Makes a lot of sense to send that up to King of the Hills. 626 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,520 I I think so. I think so. 627 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:50,720 I'm preaching to the converted here. 628 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,920 Yeah, by the way, we we spoke about the good news on on Tower 629 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,920 Hill, like it sounds like, you know, Vault vault might have 630 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,840 some good news on on the way in relation to Sugar Zone as well. 631 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,600 Yeah. So wins all around hopefully on 632 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,920 on unlocking these these into projects which have been 633 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,360 awaiting a bit of an approval or or a permitting sort of 634 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,080 situation. Taking a while to get there, but 635 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,760 I think so. Yeah, beautiful mate. 636 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,960 Well, that kind of that's that's my, that's my like deal. 637 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,640 Watch for the for the for the week out of the way. 638 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:23,360 We'll see if Cavs got some more deal. 639 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,520 Watch for us. Looking forward to Christmas 640 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:27,240 mate. Emma, Dave Looking forward to 641 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,000 Christmas, mate. We're in the festive season. 642 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,000 A massive thank you to Sandvik Ground Support Focus the 643 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,120 platform by market tech, Introlinks and switch 644 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,400 technologies, right Hodoru Hodoru. 645 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,320 Now remember, I'm an idiot. JD is an idiot. 646 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,720 If you thought any of this was anything other than 647 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,400 entertainment, you're an idiot and you need to read out a 648 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:46,920 disclaimer.