1
00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:02,000
Great one was sitting there with
have you on. 

2
00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:04,560
They were the obvious buyer of 
the rest of have you on from 

3
00:00:04,560 --> 00:00:06,840
from Newmont. 
And if anyone bought that, why 

4
00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:07,920
the hell wouldn't you want 
Telfa? 

5
00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:10,600
You know, they, they haven't 
managed to push that decline in 

6
00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:13,320
as fast as people thought. 
How many tons do you get out of 

7
00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:14,880
an anagram? 
It's not going to fill Telfa. 

8
00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,760
So you know, something extra is 
required in that region. 

9
00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:19,440
You know, that's not just my 
view. 

10
00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:21,360
There's obviously enough people 
in the market who keep buying 

11
00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,240
Antifa. 
Right on Buddy Waters we had a 

12
00:00:24,240 --> 00:00:28,360
bloody impromptu surprise visit 
from a great friend of the show,

13
00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,080
Henley Widdip. 
Line selection, Kurt, good short

14
00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:34,680
notice recruit and Travis. 
What a lucky coincidence that he

15
00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:36,720
happened to be available in in 
town the exact same day I 

16
00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:38,120
messaged him. 
We had such a wicked 

17
00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,560
conversation about every school 
gold junior you can think of. 

18
00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:41,440
Maddie. 
We asked I. 

19
00:00:41,480 --> 00:00:44,800
Was surprised how many gold 
juniors you across. 

20
00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:46,800
Have you got a new? 
Found passion. 

21
00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,080
I cut my teeth in that sector. 
Maddie, I once you, once you're 

22
00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,720
across, once you do the gold 
comps in corporate finance, you 

23
00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:55,440
never forget the companies. 
They're all had Reg paid 

24
00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:59,840
histories, but yeah pretty much 
went through frigging everything

25
00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:03,360
other than a mid cap in guards. 
We can talk about them. 

26
00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,120
Yeah, and if they're potentially
producing or bloody, Yeah, he's 

27
00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:09,680
no, It was a frigging good yard.
It's awesome. 

28
00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,400
Keen to hear it guys, Maybe 
they'll last sort of get their 

29
00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:16,200
big day in the sun as we're 
starting to see. 

30
00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:18,760
Jade, have you heard if Vice 
aren't have thrown that offer to

31
00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:20,960
Gerard James yet? 
WA Waterboards. 

32
00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,520
Cannot confirm or deny Maddie 
but I've I've got a sort of 

33
00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,360
price that I think gets the deal
over the line in my mind. 

34
00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,320
What are you thinking? 
Mate, if you've got a contact 

35
00:01:29,320 --> 00:01:31,440
there, Matey reckons 30 mil 
would do it. 

36
00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:35,240
But based on the fact that the 
best bloody mud Rotary drillers 

37
00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,040
in the world are at WA water 
balls, they'll probably make 

38
00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,480
that in a year and a half. 
So that multiple doesn't even 

39
00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:42,720
make sense for me. 
So vice, Ange. 

40
00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:44,560
Checks. 
Checks the box for. 

41
00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,640
Open up the checkbook. 
I reckon you might be mate. 

42
00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,600
They they find water with gold 
in it in this bloody 

43
00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,080
environment. 
So we're talking bloody bore 

44
00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,160
field installations. 
You want to find water? 

45
00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,680
You want to fuck water off? 
You want to bloody do anything 

46
00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:03,240
water related mate. 
You can even drill paste tiles 

47
00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,680
in the underground with the WA 
water balls team and the bloody 

48
00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,000
vertical angle. 
Anything anything. 

49
00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,400
They are the absolute gurus and.
God will come out of them. 

50
00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,520
Pretty pretty much you can flush
it's gold straight up the bloody

51
00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,520
paste tile into your into the 
back of your truck if you want 

52
00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:22,440
go Gerard James, go vice on by 
and Gerard James open your. 

53
00:02:22,640 --> 00:02:24,800
Check. 
Let's let's do WA water balls to

54
00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:26,600
be clear. 
Yeah, yeah, but no. 

55
00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,040
Well, bloody maybe. 
One and the same. 

56
00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,480
Yeah, 2 transactions, righto. 
Let's get into it with headers. 

57
00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,560
Righto buddy. 
Miners Headley by Kay while the 

58
00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:40,440
sun shines, mate, this is your 
time to do as many podcast 

59
00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:46,080
interviews as you can. 
Oh, tell you what Headley, we're

60
00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,120
at Law and Selection Group. 
How are you mate? 

61
00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,120
I'm well, thanks, Maddie. 
And I must say it's a great 

62
00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,440
privilege to be sitting at this 
round table, which has become 

63
00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,440
quite famous. 
I've been, I've been blessed to 

64
00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:58,880
be on your podcast before, but 
never in this office. 

65
00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:00,360
So this feels like. 
Table mate. 

66
00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,880
Feels like a first time for me. 
It's, it's, it's pretty 

67
00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:05,360
impromptu and serendipitous. 
I sent you a text message this 

68
00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:07,120
morning and I said, mate, when 
you're in Perth next, I was 

69
00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:10,440
thinking like this is this is 
Gold junior time and you are Mr.

70
00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:14,080
Gold Junior and, and, and you 
replied and said, I just landed,

71
00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:15,560
I'm I'm here, do you want to get
a beer? 

72
00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:17,600
And I said, well, why don't we 
have a beer miked up and you've 

73
00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:19,080
popped in. 
Well, you said, you said when 

74
00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:20,720
you're coming to Perth, I 
thought, shit sounds like an 

75
00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:24,360
invitation, I'll book a flight. 
No such thing as a free lunch, 

76
00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:25,520
mate. 
I didn't want to have a beer. 

77
00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,120
We're getting an episode. 
Out I even managed to organise a

78
00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:30,720
site visit for tomorrow, so, you
know, legitimise the whole 

79
00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:32,400
thing. 
Awesome, I heard you're visiting

80
00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:36,080
a deposit with my my name. 
That's right, the mighty Ricky. 

81
00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:37,680
Ricky. 
The Murchison region. 

82
00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:40,360
I don't want to. 
Well, it sounds like. 

83
00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,120
I mean, you know, they say don't
kiss and tell. 

84
00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:43,280
I haven't even kissed this one 
yet. 

85
00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:47,040
So what's it like? 
So what's it like that you've 

86
00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,800
since we first interviewed you 
last year, you're one of the, I 

87
00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,560
guess, more publicized early 
movers seeing the value in 

88
00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:59,520
junior gold stocks And they're 
they've all had a bit of a run 

89
00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:03,240
and a lot of yours, most of 
yours have had a pretty good 

90
00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,400
run, some yet to probably run as
much as you like. 

91
00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,800
What's the vibe like? 
How do you feel about picking it

92
00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:11,320
and it's finally sort of 
happening? 

93
00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:17,720
I think I've been working in 
mining finance now for 18 years 

94
00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:19,399
and then there was 10 years of 
mining before that. 

95
00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,360
And I think one of the things 
which you recognise after that 

96
00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:23,920
long in the industry is how 
cyclical it is. 

97
00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,000
And you know, there's good 
times, but you got to recognise 

98
00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,600
when there is a good time 
because you need to, like you 

99
00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:30,320
said, make hay when the sun 
shines. 

100
00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,600
They don't last forever. 
At the moment we've seen the 

101
00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,320
gold price rocket away and we 
started buying into the junior 

102
00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,160
golds just thinking that they 
were the most depressed, as in 

103
00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,120
they've been sold off the 
hardest, particularly when 

104
00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,000
critical minerals were all the 
rage was like who gives the 

105
00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:48,080
stuff about gold? 
So we're investing in it at that

106
00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,400
time, feeling contrarian, but 
also feeling that the risk 

107
00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:55,120
profile across the entire junior
space was very much skewed. 

108
00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:57,640
And if you're paying a lot for 
critical minerals at that time, 

109
00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:01,120
you're also taking marketing, 
metallurgical, etcetera, risk. 

110
00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,120
And in gold, that is a risk 
which is generally much, much 

111
00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,120
lower, if at all, you know, you 
can dig gold up, separate it and

112
00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:08,560
sell it a lot easier than 
anything else. 

113
00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:10,880
So if you're getting it cheap, 
it's a great time to be in it 

114
00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,280
and then you wait and, and 
hopefully it goes up. 

115
00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:15,760
So that thesis played out and it
feels great. 

116
00:05:16,280 --> 00:05:19,760
But you know, now we start to 
think where does this lead? 

117
00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:22,200
And I guess nobody knows the 
answer to that, but I do feel 

118
00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:26,000
like quit quite early. 
Well, and it seems like a very 

119
00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,640
basic overview of it. 
It feels like they were so many 

120
00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:32,800
companies were stuck in the 
whole of very small market caps 

121
00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:37,920
beating up like anything 
inability to raise cap that much

122
00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:39,960
capital that can actually get a 
much. 

123
00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:44,320
Now there's actually a bit of 
equity and momentum in the mall.

124
00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:47,440
They're right. 
Like just the, the tailwinds you

125
00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:51,200
get from being able to raise, 
you know, 2 figure amounts of 

126
00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,680
money and now just set up. 
It just seems it's either one 

127
00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,880
end or the other and it just 
really feels like that's pushing

128
00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,520
them all at the moment. 
Yeah, well, I mean last year if,

129
00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:02,640
if, if you took the first half 
of last year and then even 

130
00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,640
trickling through into 
September, October, a big raise 

131
00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,160
was 10 million bucks if you're a
gold company and even if you're 

132
00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:09,760
really advanced. 
Replacement capacity. 

133
00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,800
Yeah, yeah. 
Well now I mean you've got 

134
00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,600
companies raising 30 million 
bucks every second day and and 

135
00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:17,680
not much has changed other than 
the gold price. 

136
00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:21,200
But yet, I think the, the, if 
you look at it from a a value 

137
00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,720
perspective, you're still a 
long, long way behind what you 

138
00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,360
would be buying in terms of 
dollars per oz or whatever 

139
00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,320
metric trick you want to use 
that kind of values what a 

140
00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,320
company might be able to produce
versus the producers. 

141
00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,720
The producers have benefited 
from the gold price, maybe not 

142
00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,880
as much as you would have 
expected in a 1980s style cycle 

143
00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,560
or a 90s or even naughties style
cycle where gold starts going 

144
00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,600
quite hard and and a lot of 
speculation starts to get built 

145
00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,160
into the equities. 
I think we live in a world now 

146
00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,840
where gold is being bought by 
such a large market, which 

147
00:06:50,840 --> 00:06:54,040
doesn't necessarily include a 
lot of Western speculators, 

148
00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:56,400
whereas it's the Western 
speculators in the Western 

149
00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:57,880
markets which need to purchase 
the equities. 

150
00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:01,880
So whatever is driving the gold 
price isn't also applied to the 

151
00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:03,520
equity price. 
And in the past, that leverage 

152
00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:05,200
would have been much more 
significant than what we see 

153
00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:07,200
now. 
And I think that has probably 

154
00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,760
had something to do with the 
lack of feed through into the 

155
00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,280
development space and the junior
space, although there's a lot of

156
00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:15,600
relevant recent history which 
probably has put people off of 

157
00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,920
taking those risks as well are. 
You are you still saying a 

158
00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:22,320
pretty substantial like 
disconnect between the the 

159
00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,360
equity valuations of the, you 
know, the undeveloped juniors 

160
00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:27,600
versus the producers and and 
kind of how are we quantifying 

161
00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:29,360
that? 
Yeah. 

162
00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,600
How do you how do you measure a 
whole sector? 

163
00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,320
Not so much in valuation that 
that that's a harder piece, 

164
00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,320
Although I would say 
subjectively, non empirically, 

165
00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:42,000
yes, I I see that that as a big,
big difference. 

166
00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,440
If I just took aggregate prices 
and the way that they trade and 

167
00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:47,720
you say, well, you know, if 
someone's got some good answers 

168
00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,880
to come out of the ground, then 
that group of companies with 

169
00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,440
good answers should be trading 
in a similar pattern to the 

170
00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:54,840
people who are producing good 
answers. 

171
00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:56,520
And there must be good answers 
because you're producing them 

172
00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:58,560
and you're making money. 
Some are better than others, but

173
00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:00,640
you know, there's good that make
money and there's bad that 

174
00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:01,960
don't. 
I suppose if you just draw that 

175
00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:03,120
very black and white 
distinction. 

176
00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,240
For the last three years, the 
gold producers have taken 

177
00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:12,120
advantage of a robust semi 
solid, now almost vertical gold 

178
00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,080
price and they've been able to 
expand their revenues. 

179
00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,800
They've been very fortunate to 
be doing that against a backdrop

180
00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:19,960
of prices not inflating all that
heavily. 

181
00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,360
Price inflation in the mining 
market has been driven by iron 

182
00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,760
ore in the naughties and coal at
the same time. 

183
00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:28,520
We've had the critical minerals 
boom and all these new lithium 

184
00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:30,960
mines that had to compete with 
the labor pool that wasn't 

185
00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,760
expanding, but the amount of 
mines wasn't contracting. 

186
00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,720
So that that pushed costs 
amazingly and that's not a 

187
00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:38,919
factor at the moment. 
A lot of those jobs are falling 

188
00:08:38,919 --> 00:08:40,440
away. 
So the gold industry I think is 

189
00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:42,799
able to make more money at the 
same time as costs not chasing 

190
00:08:42,799 --> 00:08:45,440
it up. 
And we haven't seen the kind of,

191
00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,040
you know, let's all push our pit
optimizations out and start 

192
00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:51,240
mining marginal material to make
more answers that make less 

193
00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,400
money. 
I'm sure that'll come, but we 

194
00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:55,720
haven't seen it yet. 
So the producers have runaway, 

195
00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:57,640
they've had that price trend for
three years. 

196
00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,320
In that same three years, the 
developers have been on a 

197
00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,520
downward trajectory, I would say
until very early this year or 

198
00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:09,040
late last year when the the 
junior slash Explorer class, if 

199
00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,600
you just take it as a whole and 
I'm sure you could pick out the 

200
00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:13,880
ones which are the better 
performance versus the worst 

201
00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:15,800
performance. 
But if you just take a median 

202
00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,560
across a very large group of 
maybe a hundred, 120 of them 

203
00:09:18,560 --> 00:09:22,760
that sit below a 200, two, 150 
mil market cap, that ticked up 

204
00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,960
as of last year and that broke a
very significant three-year 

205
00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,320
trend. 
So it wasn't the gold price 

206
00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,200
which pulled it out of that. 
I think it was money coming down

207
00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,280
from the producers and saying 
where can we take a bit more 

208
00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:35,360
risk to expose ourselves to a 
bit more performance. 

209
00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,480
So I feel like that corresponds 
with the raisings that got 

210
00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,080
bigger. 
You know, the two seem to go 

211
00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:43,480
hand in hand. 
So if I had to say, you know, it

212
00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:45,040
is now the time for gold 
juniors. 

213
00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:47,120
Yeah, I think we're into we're 
into that era now. 

214
00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,400
I. 
Think Connor bit bit devil's 

215
00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,720
advocate against what you said 
about the the labour pool and 

216
00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,640
everything dropping off. 
Like I agree with the the 

217
00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:01,760
lithium and the nickel providing
putting a lot more people into 

218
00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:03,640
the market. 
But I guess what's happened in 

219
00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,200
in parallel with, you know, with
gold, like you got more 

220
00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,040
obviously a lot more of a 
underground mining pool that you

221
00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:14,520
have to pick from and you know, 
word on the street the amount of

222
00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:19,520
people that Northern Star are 
consuming for this Kalgoorlie 

223
00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:23,040
expansion is really chucking a 
lot of pressure on the 

224
00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,040
employment pool at the moment. 
There was a lot available, but 

225
00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,880
it's like that expansion is 
really taking a lot of people 

226
00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:33,000
out of the market. 
So and, and when we get to the 

227
00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:37,560
point where like these prices 
are up here, they're not and and

228
00:10:37,560 --> 00:10:40,400
lithium's dead, like how how 
we're not producing as cheap. 

229
00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:43,240
Yeah, like those big operations 
are actually sucking a lot of 

230
00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:44,560
people. 
Well, that's true. 

231
00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,000
And I suppose that there will be
other gold projects which are 

232
00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,320
also expanding or you know, 
bringing more people on. 

233
00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,360
I'd just contrast that if you, 
if you were to take now and the 

234
00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,600
expansion of the Super pit, and 
perhaps that's another hundred, 

235
00:10:56,680 --> 00:10:59,640
150 people, I don't know, rough 
numbers, you might know better 

236
00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,080
than me. 
But I can think back to when I 

237
00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:04,560
was finishing up being a 
geologist and moving into mining

238
00:11:04,560 --> 00:11:06,440
investment. 
That was when iron ore was going

239
00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:10,320
from 40 bucks to 100 bucks. 
And that was a case of you used 

240
00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,920
to get paid 60 grand a year as a
truck driver and suddenly it was

241
00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,120
120 and then it was 150. 
And it was just they needed bums

242
00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,680
on seats and it was expansions 
that were bringing in thousands 

243
00:11:18,680 --> 00:11:23,960
of people, not not hundreds. 
So I think that you know that 

244
00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,640
and that was in a market which 
needed to expand in order to do 

245
00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,160
that. 
My sense would be that if 

246
00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:33,080
Northern Star or anyone else in 
the gold space says we need a 

247
00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,120
couple of underground operators,
we need a hundred of them. 

248
00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:37,920
You put an ad in the paper and 
you're more than likely to have,

249
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,000
you know, a large proportion of 
that pool that apply. 

250
00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,000
Have some experience that they 
can bring to it in which case 

251
00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:44,640
they can be picky. 
So it's probably not having to 

252
00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,440
expand the labour pool too much.
Whereas you know the the case of

253
00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:50,600
the truck drivers in the Pilbara
and the the naughties to the 

254
00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,480
late naughties, I would say 
there was very few of them went 

255
00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:57,760
with any experience. 
Got to ask had the if, if, if 

256
00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:00,760
the gold juniors have kind of 
picked up already and some of 

257
00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,640
them are fairway off their lows.
You know, some some of them are 

258
00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,480
are yet to really tick up yet. 
But certainly it feels like that

259
00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,320
tide's turned. 
Why, why are you not fully 

260
00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:13,520
deployed? 
I mean at 303131 Jan, you had 

261
00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:18,560
what was it $61.3 million in, in
investments, but cash and term, 

262
00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:21,880
term deposits of $47 million. 
Don't you wish you had that 

263
00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:24,520
deployed before or they just 
weren't like ways to actually 

264
00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:26,280
deploy in that size in the 
junior market? 

265
00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:27,880
Part of me does, but we're not 
traders. 

266
00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:31,120
So the part of me that wishes we
were deployed would also be the 

267
00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,800
part of me that was now sitting 
there going well, if I want to 

268
00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,160
top up in anything like a satin 
minerals, which we did 

269
00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,480
yesterday, sorry, yesterday was 
Sunday. 

270
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,280
So we announced that today if we
wanted to top up in anything, 

271
00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:43,800
we'd be needing to sell 
something and you'd be, you'd be

272
00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:45,960
crystallising a return. 
But when you go to sell anything

273
00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:48,600
to follow your money, you're, 
you're stressed and you might 

274
00:12:48,680 --> 00:12:50,080
not be making the best 
decisions. 

275
00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,480
So I know that's probably a weak
defence for not being fully 

276
00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:54,680
deployed. 
I must say it's difficult to 

277
00:12:54,680 --> 00:12:56,640
time when you think a market is 
really going to run. 

278
00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:00,680
But what we've been focused on, 
I mean, we, we exited the market

279
00:13:00,680 --> 00:13:05,360
to a large extent in 20/21/22. 
We went to 90% cash. 

280
00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:07,560
We felt like we were at the top 
of the market. 

281
00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,000
There was opportunities to sell 
some big investments and I don't

282
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,680
know, opportunity meets 
preparation I guess. 

283
00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:15,800
But at the same time, you're 
probably only half clever. 

284
00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:19,080
You're also very lucky and but 
you know, found ourselves in a 

285
00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,320
situation which I don't think 
too many other asset managers 

286
00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:23,760
were to be fully cashed at the 
top of market. 

287
00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,280
And then as that market and our 
market is the juniors fell away,

288
00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:28,840
the purchasing power of that 
increases. 

289
00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:32,360
So the temptation to be coming 
into the market was always 

290
00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,520
there, but it was also met by, 
are you going to be investing 

291
00:13:35,560 --> 00:13:38,000
too, too far before that market 
turns around. 

292
00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:43,480
And because we feel that the the
investment return which we're 

293
00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,680
hoping to get off of this pool 
of assets is going to be over 

294
00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:48,160
let's say three to five years 
in. 

295
00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:49,960
In practice, it could be longer,
it could be a bit shorter. 

296
00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,920
But I suspect 3 to 5 is probably
fairly near to what the ultimate

297
00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,360
boom phase might be. 
And to crystallise value, some 

298
00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,520
of them are going to have to 
make discoveries, extend their 

299
00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:05,080
deposits, develop mines. 
We can't be looking to sell once

300
00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:06,120
we've had the return that we 
have. 

301
00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,480
So I think in that same 
quarterly it would have said 

302
00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:10,400
we'd invested about 31,000,000 
bucks. 

303
00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,160
And that pool of money which has
been invested just in Australia 

304
00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,400
was up about 52% at that marker.
It's up by more now, but you 

305
00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:19,520
know the, the, the market is 
fortunately moving. 

306
00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,080
We can follow that money and 
every single one of those 

307
00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:24,520
companies. 
They're gonna need more. 

308
00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:26,360
Is is at risk of needing more 
capital? 

309
00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:27,960
There's one. 
There's one I don't think they 

310
00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,200
will, but the rest of them do. 
So let's say across the 

311
00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,160
portfolio, we need to be 
prepared to follow our money. 

312
00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:34,800
And when you're following your 
money, you're probably waiting 

313
00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:38,760
for another low price move 
marker because no one, you know,

314
00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,240
very few companies in that space
get it right where they go 

315
00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:44,320
right, we've gone from 10 to 50.
Let's raise all the money we 

316
00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,320
need now. 
You know, they, they kind of get

317
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:48,520
to a point where they come issue
and if they'd hit 50, they'd 

318
00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:50,880
come right back to 35 before 
they raise money again. 

319
00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,200
So you're, you're probably 
always getting a bargain when 

320
00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,520
you're putting fresh money in. 
So we're very conscious of 

321
00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:00,080
following our money to that 
extent because our position as a

322
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,680
visible shareholder is sometimes
something which can influence 

323
00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,600
the success of a raising as 
well, particularly in a market 

324
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,400
which is not yet roaring it. 
I think it's going well, but 

325
00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,480
we're also cognizant that if 
we're, you know, a 10% 

326
00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:13,640
shareholder in something 
someone's raising money and we 

327
00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,840
go, we're not interested. 
You know, that book might not be

328
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,240
as full, it might put pressure 
on the price. 

329
00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,080
And it's, it's often something 
that we're either there and 

330
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,600
we're investing or we're finding
a way not to be there. 

331
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:26,960
And there's not too much in 
between that the market will be 

332
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:28,520
happy with if there's a raising 
on it's. 

333
00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:33,360
Probably a weird question, but 
with the market I, I, I guess 

334
00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:37,680
yeah, rewriting to some extent. 
Is your investable opportunity 

335
00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,720
set bigger or smaller than it 
was 12 months ago? 

336
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,560
Well, the investable opportunity
set has probably got most of the

337
00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,320
critical minerals in it now, 
whereas 2 years ago I would 

338
00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,480
argue they weren't. 
And it's, you know, there's no 

339
00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,240
objective marker. 
It's what I think because if I 

340
00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,040
decide I'm not interested, then 
I won't do the work, right. 

341
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,800
So, so I think, you know, 
there's some of those which I 

342
00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,120
could be quite skeptical about, 
but if someone came in with a, 

343
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,880
what is obviously a large and 
attractive, you know, sector 

344
00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,840
leading lithium deposit or rare 
earths, I'm, I'm happy to have a

345
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:09,680
look at that. 
I'm happy to think contrarian. 

346
00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,080
It might not be something that 
we put a large amount of our 

347
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,480
money into, but it's something 
that we're very happy to think 

348
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:15,960
about and see how that's going 
to play. 

349
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,200
Because if the lithium price 
starts to move, the most 

350
00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,640
leveraged thing that you can be 
in is the biggest, best grade 

351
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,000
undeveloped deposit that's in 
that space. 

352
00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,360
And that's that's where we often
try to put our money. 

353
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:29,680
So I mean, we'd put money into 
rare earth and that was the 

354
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:31,520
mentality we had. 
Look for that. 

355
00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:33,120
If it doesn't exist, don't do 
it. 

356
00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,360
But so that's, I would say that 
that opportunity set has 

357
00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,040
broadened. 
Now it's easy to say when the 

358
00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:43,960
gold price is almost doubled in 
that period of time that the 

359
00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:45,480
critical minerals couldn't 
possibly do that. 

360
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:49,000
We've seen them all come off 
quite horrendously in many cases

361
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:50,840
and probably been the worst 
performers across much of the 

362
00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,880
commodity market. 
So how can you be so contrarian 

363
00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,320
about that when, you know, gold 
was maybe a bit obvious? 

364
00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:58,480
We're biased by the performance 
that we've seen. 

365
00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:01,360
It's difficult to make that 
comparison, so I'm open minded 

366
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,320
to looking at them. 
But the other thing to think 

367
00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:05,720
about with gold is that, like I 
said before, they tend to be 

368
00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,720
lower risk. 
So if you've got 10 bucks to 

369
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,040
spend in the mining market and 
you want to do 10 stories, 

370
00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:14,640
there's a pretty good chance to 
have all the things you assess. 

371
00:17:14,839 --> 00:17:18,040
Four or five of them are going 
to be gold that race to the top 

372
00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:19,560
just because of pure weight of 
numbers. 

373
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,240
And if you're risk influenced, 
if you want to hold something to

374
00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,240
three, three to five years and 
see it grow, see the project be 

375
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,920
successful and the value which 
you've, you know, come up with 

376
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:31,000
in an empirical way is realised 
by the market because it's time.

377
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,680
You need to have that time for 
that to play out, which means 

378
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,400
you can't, you can't take an 
institutional approach to 

379
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,480
something that starts off being 
capitalised at 10 or 15 because 

380
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:42,280
you might be right, but then 
you're trapped in a lobster 

381
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:43,680
trap. 
And, you know, if it's just new 

382
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,080
liquid stock, you might never 
get price discovery. 

383
00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,160
So we've, we've, there's a lot 
we've got to manage in that 

384
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,680
sense. 
And we, you know, we often get 

385
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:53,960
shareholders will often come in 
and say, oh, did you see this 

386
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:55,240
trade? 
You know, I made a lot of money 

387
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,080
off of it. 
And it's buying an esoteric 

388
00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,600
option in a company which was, 
you know, a death's door and 

389
00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:01,600
something happened and squeezed 
and the options went great. 

390
00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,520
It's like, well, you know, 
there's about 50 or $0.60 of 

391
00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:07,440
liquidity in that I wanted to 
put half 1,000,000 bucks in 

392
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:09,680
would have swamped it. 
It's it's impossible, couldn't 

393
00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:11,440
get in, couldn't get out. 
So there's a lot that happens in

394
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,280
the junior space where, you 
know, for an institution to 

395
00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,280
invest, you have to be very 
careful about what you pick just

396
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:20,200
because that money can influence
prices in the wrong way as well.

397
00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,800
Right, you want to extract 100% 
of these bloody resources that 

398
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:27,360
headers is talking about? 
You need a pace plant. 

399
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:29,880
You need, you need an EPC 
contract in a designer pace 

400
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:31,880
plant. 
Quite your bloody pace plant, 

401
00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,360
you know. 
Oh, they quattro, they, as you 

402
00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:38,560
said, design engineer construct 
and that pace has to go 

403
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:41,800
somewhere, goes into the pace 
fill Retik pipes underground, 

404
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,600
they put those in that goes 
through a quattro pace diverter 

405
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,640
valve to optimise the flow of 
this pace so you don't have to 

406
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:52,160
bloody turn the plan off. 
I think in the future that the 

407
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:58,200
generic word Pace Phil will be 
termed Quattro Phil because they

408
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:02,520
have just freaking taken over 
the world of Pace Phil and it's 

409
00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,040
going to be like Band-Aid or Red
Bull. 

410
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,000
There is no underground 
engineering that these guys have

411
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,440
not, you know, wrapped their 
their fingers and hands around. 

412
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:12,160
This is this is their bread and 
butter. 

413
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,080
They are, you know, just Jeremy.
What, what, what? 

414
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,360
An entrepreneur starting a 
company, having a crack, 

415
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:19,400
building something special with 
Quattro Get around. 

416
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:23,040
Them mate, they've been it's 
decades long now, so absolute 

417
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:27,240
APC gurus keep an eye on them 
for at underground operators 

418
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,840
conference and get them to tell 
you how good they are instead of

419
00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:32,040
me. 
Don't Quattro as well. 

420
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:36,880
Let's get back into it. 
What do you think about if 

421
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,760
you're going to split up the 
gold juniors at the moment, the 

422
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:44,760
ones that have performed well, 
performed not as well as those 

423
00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:48,040
who are well in terms of the 
information they have out. 

424
00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:52,280
I'll pluck a few names, ones 
that have really outperformed of

425
00:19:52,280 --> 00:20:00,400
light, like Medallion, like 
Astral Maker. 

426
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,280
They all have like a there's a 
bit of there's a study, there's 

427
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,720
some numbers that you can wrap 
your head around of like 

428
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,600
hopefully what will happen. 
One that probably hasn't 

429
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:13,040
performed as well and starting 
to go is probably great. 

430
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,120
Boulder doesn't have a study yet
that looks like they're trying 

431
00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:19,360
to get to 1,000,000 oz before 
they actually wrap a plan out. 

432
00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:22,440
Another announce the other week 
that you know, bring on some 

433
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:27,520
people to progress studies and 
everything is that is that 

434
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:29,920
influencing the performance of 
these juniors. 

435
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,320
If you like, they've got some 
got some numbers for the 

436
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,440
investors to sign up that makes 
sense or don't want a bar of. 

437
00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:39,880
It well, short answer is yes, I 
think that's very important. 

438
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,000
But I think you've also got to 
take step back and I've seen 

439
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,440
some very clever people in the 
mining space. 

440
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,320
I'm not going to give you their 
names, but you'd probably guess 

441
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,520
it pretty quickly. 
They know their story back to 

442
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:51,040
front. 
If you put them in front of a 

443
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:54,120
purely retail audience and you 
say you've got 15 minutes spewed

444
00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:56,280
out, they'll hit you with 
grades, they'll hit you with 

445
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,640
tons, they'll hit with 
timeframes and costs and all 

446
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:00,360
this other stuff. 
And the retail people just go, 

447
00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:02,280
what the hell are you talking 
about? 

448
00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:04,920
I don't understand. 
Like it, there's no relativity 

449
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:09,120
around a parcel of 10,000 oz. 
There's no relativity around how

450
00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:11,040
many millions of dollars it 
costs you to produce that. 

451
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,080
So studies are useful because it
gives you the basis to announce 

452
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,640
something and then to put that 
into a layperson's terms. 

453
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,440
And I think that's probably 
where the magic is, is having a 

454
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,360
story where you can genuinely 
say we have done the study. 

455
00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:26,400
So if you've got the time and 
the intelligence, go and read it

456
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,080
and digest it. 
Come back with questions if you 

457
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:30,600
like. 
But but I can say with 

458
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,840
confidence that this is what 
we're going to do. 

459
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,320
And I think those companies 
which have proceeded, sorry, 

460
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,800
have have really flourished in 
this market have been ones who 

461
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,800
can say things like we have a 
plan a la a study. 

462
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,560
We are advancing and they've 
made tangible progress towards 

463
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,760
being in cash flow and in many 
cases they've been able to 

464
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,040
procure some kind of a surprise 
or at least a step down in terms

465
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:54,000
of how much it was going to 
cost. 

466
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,440
So they're not standing before 
the market and saying it's going

467
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,640
to cost us half a billion 
dollars to build a project and 

468
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,000
that is all we can do. 
You know, we're, we're a small 

469
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,880
company and one day we're going 
to need that capital in the case

470
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,800
of Medallion, which is I like 
talking about that because we 

471
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,480
put 1,000,000 bucks in at $0.10 
and last I looked it was 20 

472
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,160
something 20. 5 1/2 tonight. 25 
There you go, they. 

473
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,240
IPO D at 25 yeah, come back they
I think it went down as low as 

474
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,080
like 3. 
Yeah, but we didn't get any in 

475
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,840
the IPO and we didn't get any at
3, but we did get some at $0.10 

476
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:24,440
not long ago. 
So what they did was you know 

477
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,760
they had a study and it showed 
we're going to go into 

478
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:28,400
production. 
We've got a great inventory and 

479
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,480
it I think it's a very well 
drilled deposit. 

480
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:32,760
You know, it's well understood 
from a geological perspective. 

481
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,440
It's not a new resource and that
there's an advantage in that, 

482
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,520
but one of the disadvantages, 
it's been sitting in the ground 

483
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,560
for a long time and people say, 
well, what what straw needs to 

484
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,520
break this camel's back to pull 
it out of the ground. 

485
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,000
And I think in this case, the 
straw that broke the camel's 

486
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,400
back was stepping away from, we 
have to spend, I can't remember 

487
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,800
what the CapEx was going to be, 
you know, was it over 150 to 

488
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,560
build a brand new plant? 
And by the time you're doing 

489
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,800
that for one deposit, which has 
copper with gold oxide, 

490
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,320
transitional and fresh, you need
to be able to try to come up 

491
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,840
with a CapEx solution which 
meets as many of those 

492
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,200
requirements. 
And as you know, I mean, if it's

493
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,880
plain gold, you can use one 
plant reasonably simple. 

494
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,280
By the time it's copper, you 
need to think flotation. 

495
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,840
And by the time you add 
weathering into that it, it can 

496
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,920
be a nightmare. 
The nickel collapse happened, 

497
00:23:20,120 --> 00:23:23,880
IGO found many of its operations
unsustainable. 

498
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:25,280
So they've been able to get 
access. 

499
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,160
Well, they've got an option on 
the Cosmic Boy plant, which is 

500
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,720
150 odd KS by Rd. which is, you 
know, it's not next door, but it

501
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,080
it still makes sense when you're
taking. 2 grand. 

502
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:35,880
Yeah. 
Oh, yeah. 

503
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:37,560
I think it's a bit more than 
that that comes out of the 

504
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,880
ground. 
But it, it enables them to go in

505
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,520
with a smaller development 
footprint, smaller CapEx and get

506
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,760
into business. 
And I think there is an element 

507
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,000
of the market which in the last,
I would say call it two to four 

508
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,120
years has been much more open 
to, you don't have to develop 

509
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:53,480
something which is going to be 
100,000 oz per annum because 

510
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,480
there's so many deposits which 
were shoehorned into that. 

511
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,280
And they should have been longer
life, smaller capacity or, or 

512
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,120
whatever. 
But you know, some of the 

513
00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:02,680
mistakes I've seen in the market
that that's probably part of the

514
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,960
reasoning in the medallion case,
You know, they've found a way, 

515
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,240
it looks as if they found a way 
into production, which cuts the 

516
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:10,800
CapEx back that they need to 
raise. 

517
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,440
And you know, by the time they 
get to it, well, how much do 

518
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,320
they need to raise? 
They need to exercise an option.

519
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,680
There's a, there's a net off for
the the environmental 

520
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,320
rehabilitation cost. 
And what they've told the market

521
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,920
is that, you know, it's AI think
it's a $50 million option. 

522
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,600
So they're not going to have to 
pay 50. 

523
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,120
It'll be reduced by a, a 
liability amount. 

524
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,880
And then they need to pay the 
CapEx to, to do the bits and 

525
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,480
pieces to make that plant work 
for gold. 

526
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,200
So, you know, instead of the 
original. 

527
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,560
And I can't remember what it 
was, but maybe it was 150 

528
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,080
million bucks. 
It's now, you know, sub 100. 

529
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,520
So it's a it's a big reduction, 
but the other advantage of doing

530
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:50,160
it that way, well, not everybody
can is instead of saying we need

531
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,440
to build all of this from 
scratch, which means you've got 

532
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,360
to raise all that money in one 
go. 

533
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:56,640
It's not like you can do a 
raising one year and buy your 

534
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,720
crusher in your camp and then 
come back the next year. 

535
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:00,440
You know, you need once you're 
committed, you've got to do it 

536
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,440
all. 
In this case, it's like they 

537
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,280
they raise the money to to pay 
for the option, raise the money 

538
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,760
to do do a bit of the cap ex 
raise the money to put yourself 

539
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,160
into production of this couple 
of bite sized chunks there, 

540
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,240
which make it eminently more 
manageable. 

541
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,440
And because you're scaling up 
your market cap each time, you 

542
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,680
know, you've got a much bigger 
rump to to raise money off of. 

543
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,280
So I think that's probably part 
of the success and that that 

544
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,040
applies to some extent to some 
of the others. 

545
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,400
Astral is probably the odd one 
out there and that they don't 

546
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:31,400
seem to have an easier way into 
production other than than 

547
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,440
building their project. 
But they've very successfully 

548
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,800
demonstrated to the market. 
And you know, it's up to Mark de

549
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:38,520
Clair. 
Some call him Chocolates de 

550
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,040
Clair. 
I quite enjoy introducing Mark 

551
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,600
to conferences and he's not here
to stare at me or send me rude 

552
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,960
text messages now. 
But I'm sure I'll hear about 

553
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:50,320
this when it goes to it. 
Have you ever get a picture of, 

554
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,000
if you Google Alex Perry, the 
fat fashion icon with 

555
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,080
sunglasses, you got to stipulate
sunglasses. 

556
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,480
Just tell me what it looks like,
because when Mark De Clair calls

557
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,000
my phone, that's the picture 
that comes up. 

558
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,920
So Mark Mark has very 
successfully compared their 

559
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:09,360
project to something like a like
what what Capricorn did with 

560
00:26:09,360 --> 00:26:12,480
Kalawinda. 
And basically it's it's not high

561
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:16,480
grade, but it's large tons, it's
stable costs, it's stable 

562
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,000
throughput. 
It's a very bite size meal. 

563
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,160
You know, you're buying 
everything is vanilla in terms 

564
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,200
of putting it on the ground with
CapEx, you're not taking too 

565
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,520
many technology risks or 
anything like that. 

566
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,680
And I think that that story has 
been well told and persevered 

567
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,720
with and you know, as one 
institution comes bit of 

568
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,960
success, another institution 
come, you know, so that one been

569
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,400
built up a bit more piece at a 
time there. 

570
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,440
And I wouldn't say that there's 
been a breakthrough other than 

571
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,840
Mark convincingly telling that 
story. 

572
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,440
Not everybody can do that 
because you know there's a, 

573
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,760
there's a circumstance, 
audience, timing, all the rest 

574
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,440
of it that comes into that. 
Today, and like all those two 

575
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:53,160
companies specifically and 
everyone else, they all grinded 

576
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:57,920
it out in the absolute dog shit 
time of exploration being hated.

577
00:26:58,120 --> 00:26:59,800
Yeah. 
And it just make more sense if 

578
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:01,880
that went to an expanded 
Higginsville mill. 

579
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,520
That project have just wrapped 
up Maximus I think. 

580
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,560
Yeah. 
That went yeah, yeah. 

581
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:09,160
Well, there's been Pulsory 
acquisition. 

582
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:10,960
I mean, there's been trucks go 
further than that. 

583
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,160
Not even that far to. 
Take material to the Saint Ives 

584
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,560
mill, which. 
Yeah, well, that's a logical 1 

585
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,480
for them, but. 
If you ever flew over St. 

586
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,640
Ives in a helicopter, I'm not 
saying I'd do that very often, 

587
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,960
but I did it once and there was 
nothing on the romped. 

588
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:24,640
I used to work there so I know 
what the romped should look 

589
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:25,240
like. 
So they've. 

590
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,040
They've been put in crushed heap
ledge through that, you know, 

591
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,200
semi recently I believe. 
Yeah, yeah. 

592
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:35,000
I believe so, I think. 
The thing on Medallion now, the 

593
00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:37,480
one thing you didn't mention is 
the fact that they can market 

594
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,520
the copper now. 
Yep, because copper was the 

595
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,240
taboo for that stock. 
They're like, how are you going 

596
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,920
to deal with the copper? 
And that was the whole thing. 

597
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,280
And now they can put drill 
results out that say 5% copper 

598
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,080
because they've got the 
processing solution. 

599
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,680
So they've got extra, you know, 
firepower in the perception of 

600
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,000
that stock. 
Well, and 10 years or maybe not 

601
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,840
ten years ago, but in the last 
market where copper was, you 

602
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:04,160
know, hitting choppy levels, 
TCR, CS and what you'd have to 

603
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,480
pay away in a copper concentrate
was a much, much higher value in

604
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,560
proportion of the value of the 
of the ore. 

605
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,880
So you know, if you were selling
5% copper or 5% ore going into a

606
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,640
concentrate and going off site, 
you know, you would still see a 

607
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:18,720
material cost that you pay in 
that. 

608
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,320
There's been so many smelters 
built, you know, Glencore is 

609
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,560
tracking some of the shittest 
concentrates in the world up the

610
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,680
train line 2 man iser to keep 
that smelter full. 

611
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,680
So there's arsenic going to 
places where I think probably 

612
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,400
need not go, not saying it goes 
up that train line, you know 

613
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,280
couldn't substantiate that. 
But there is a demand for copper

614
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,440
concentrates now and if they are
good quality they are in high 

615
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,640
demand for blending. 
So I would say that that's 

616
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,680
something which is also inflated
that copper story for them in 

617
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,600
that that can enable finance. 
So what I said the other day was

618
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,960
that have a number of off take 
interests and some of them are 

619
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,920
offering debt terms alongside 
the the off take contracts. 

620
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:56,600
And if you can do that, then it 
means you don't need to deal 

621
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,600
with the bank. 
And the more gold in it, the 

622
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,320
more they'll take. 
That's right, yeah. 

623
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:04,880
Another portfolio company that 
has really bounced and it was a 

624
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,760
catalyst Antipa. 
It's not like 300 ish ish 

625
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:13,400
percent since Greatland acquired
the rest of of Haveron and 

626
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,600
Telfa. 
Talk us through you know how you

627
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,520
how you see Antipa in their 
recent performance well. 

628
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:23,240
We invested in Antipa. 
I can't remember the exact date,

629
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,680
I'd say it was, it was 
definitely before Diggers and 

630
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:27,280
dealers because I remember 
talking to them about it 

631
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,080
afterwards. 
So let's say that was mid 2024 

632
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,640
and at that time we were looking
at something where I think 

633
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:35,160
they're raising about 6,000,000 
bucks. 

634
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,240
They already had a reasonable 
size inventory and where they 

635
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,760
were was in the Patterson. 
And you know, I, I cast my eye 

636
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:47,840
across WA, rest of Australia, 
the most heavily developed part 

637
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,560
of Australia for common 
infrastructure would which would

638
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,200
be useful to so many people 
irrespective of where the 

639
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,000
tenement boundaries are is 
probably the yield gun. 

640
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,520
And you know, the central area 
of the Gulf fields around 

641
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,240
Kalgoorlie, the Murchison, 
etcetera. 

642
00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:01,920
The Paterson is not heavily 
developed. 

643
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,680
In fact it's quite remote, but 
it's very close. 

644
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:06,280
Well, Telfer is in the heart of 
it. 

645
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,160
And, and Telfer is a pin up 
operation. 

646
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,840
It's very large, has been a very
large gold project. 

647
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,000
So we were looking at Antipa 
thinking these guys have a big 

648
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,560
inventory. 
And if you take a 5 year view, 

649
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,720
particularly if the market turns
around and turns into a boom, 

650
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,080
this is something which should 
become interesting either the 

651
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,360
people that want to build 
projects or for these guys to be

652
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,200
able to fund it. 
And at the time we were looking 

653
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,120
at it thinking, you know, it 
could be a stressful financing 

654
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,320
as their market cap at the time 
we entered was about 60. 

655
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,640
But you know, give the passenger
time and add a boom to it, 

656
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,320
market caps can increase. 
So we sort of took that risk on 

657
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,520
our thesis was definitely A2 
fold 1 though. 

658
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,680
And one thing that we've tried 
to be a lot more cognizant of 

659
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,120
in, in this generation of 
investing in the last, let's say

660
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,000
five years is you're not just 
investing in the project and, 

661
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,480
and that has to be successful 
because that's always something 

662
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,720
you look for. 
But if you can have a second 

663
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,160
exit point which is just you 
know, is there a factor which is

664
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:06,080
close to that could procure a 
development pathway or an exit 

665
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:10,520
for you from the stock even that
that takes all the project risk,

666
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,720
development risk off the table 
and M&A is one of those. 

667
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,320
So we weren't buying Antipa 
because we thought there's M&A 

668
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,160
in this. 
It was more there's a very 

669
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,680
obvious process facility there. 
It's 20 odd, 22 odd million tons

670
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,200
per annum. 
It's like 12 mils. 

671
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:25,080
Yeah. 
Well, it's in one. 

672
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,560
I mean you think of a big, a big
mill in the yield gun is 3 to 5 

673
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,800
million tonnes, right? 
And so here's one which is 4 to 

674
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,640
five times larger than that 
which you know, great 

675
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,000
efficiencies in that all the 
rest. 

676
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,680
But Telfer has had a very long 
life and found itself with a 

677
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:41,920
very little actual law. 
In fact, when Newmont sold it, 

678
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,760
it had 0 reserves. 
So that that picture is changing

679
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,680
now with Greatland having got 
hold of it and investing in all 

680
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:50,360
the rest of it. 
But we took the view that 

681
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,840
whatever happens with Telfer, 
there's a good chance that the 

682
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,080
anti parole there is of great 
use. 

683
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,600
And we clearly, you know, it's 
hard to escape the obvious 

684
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:00,200
story. 
We we didn't know it at the 

685
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,840
time, but Greatland was sitting 
there with have you're on. 

686
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,360
They were the obvious buyer of 
the rest of have you're on from 

687
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,640
from Newmont. 
And if anyone bought that, why 

688
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:08,760
the hell wouldn't you want 
telephone? 

689
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,640
So we thought, well, if you do 
that, how hard is have you're 

690
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,440
on? 
We were speculating a bit, but 

691
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,400
it looked like something which 
the development maybe hadn't 

692
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,880
stalled, but it come to the most
challenging part of the 

693
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,680
development of it. 
You know, they, they haven't 

694
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,240
managed to push that decline in 
as fast as people thought. 

695
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,240
How many tons do you get out of 
an anagram? 

696
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,080
It's not going to fill Telfa. 
So, you know, something extra is

697
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,760
required in that region other 
than have your own. 

698
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,880
They've done a great job of, of 
expanding the resources at Telfa

699
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,120
since they've owned it. 
And I think the thesis still 

700
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:41,760
fits. 
But, you know, that's not just 

701
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:43,160
my view. 
There's obviously enough people 

702
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,480
in the market who keep buying 
Antipa who either they share the

703
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,840
thesis that it's a developable 
project or I would say given, 

704
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,000
you know, the apparent 
ferociousness of buying in the 

705
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,400
stock, it's probably more like 
they also share the M&A view. 

706
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,320
So you know, I think that's 
something which a lot of people 

707
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,480
are talking about. 
But it the thing with M&A is it 

708
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,600
it's so difficult to deliver 
into because it's all 

709
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,400
speculation until it happened. 
And you know, we I know you guys

710
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,680
talk about M&AA lot. 
The thing I often smile about is

711
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:13,280
that we all sit outside of an M 
and a deal and talk about what 

712
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,040
the obvious factors must be. 
When you're on the inside of it,

713
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,800
those obvious factors are 
sometimes really difficult or, 

714
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,600
you know, just no on impossible 
and you try to deal with them. 

715
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,640
But you know, I think so in, in 
something like this, you look at

716
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,800
it and go, well, there's a mill 
there, there's a deposit there. 

717
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:27,760
There's a gap. 
Just go on there. 

718
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:28,840
Go there. 
Go and do it. 

719
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,000
Yeah. 
But I mean, you know, greatly 

720
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:32,320
needs to list in Australia 
first. 

721
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,520
Yeah, I think that's that's 
something which they need to do 

722
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:35,880
and. 
And Tipper needs approvals to 

723
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:37,080
fill that gap in the mine plan, 
too. 

724
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:37,720
Right. 
That's right. 

725
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,240
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
But meanwhile, and Taper got one

726
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,520
of the exploration JV's back 
from Newmont that already had a 

727
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,920
ripping target on it and and off
they go. 

728
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,680
They're going to be trying to 
drill that fairly shortly. 

729
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,400
They raised money and it was a, 
it was confusing to me because 

730
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,960
they, they were pretty cashed up
because they'd sold the 

731
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,240
remainder of the JV with Rio 
back to Rio and that had to 

732
00:33:58,240 --> 00:33:59,480
cash. 
And then they raised money and I

733
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:00,920
was like, well, didn't see that 
coming. 

734
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,120
Are you as a shareholder 
comfortable with that raise 

735
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,000
because it just gives them a bit
more? 

736
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,240
Yeah. 
We participated in that raise 

737
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,480
and it was priced at, or they've
reconstructed the price price, 

738
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,280
but that was priced at $0.20, 
which seems a long way in the 

739
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,480
rearview mirror from 40 odd or 
the mid 40s where we are at the 

740
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,639
moment. 
The thesis at the time was 

741
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,040
they'd been, you know, they've 
been doing Rd. shows, they're 

742
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,159
always doing Rd. shows. 
And one of them I think was the 

743
00:34:25,159 --> 00:34:27,080
first foray overseas. 
It might not have been the first

744
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,560
foray overseas, but it was they 
presented to a lot of North 

745
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,800
American institutions. 
And this was in the lead up to 

746
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:33,920
Christmas. 
So there was this question 

747
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,719
around where's gold going? 
It was starting to feel quite 

748
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,480
pleasant, like a lukewarm bath. 
But you know, we all knew we 

749
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:41,440
were going to the hiatus of 
Christmas and anything can 

750
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,480
happen over that period of time.
So that had this interest. 

751
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,400
And I think I think what they 
felt was that in the book, they 

752
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,639
were going to get some interest 
from North American institutions

753
00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:53,040
which were ready to go, ready to
pay a good price. 

754
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,040
And they would be able to come 
out to the market and say, look,

755
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,520
we're funded right through we we
can actually do everything we 

756
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,360
want to do. 
And if you think about that in 

757
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,920
the context of developing a 
project, it's very defensible to

758
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,160
raise the money to say we don't 
need to raise any. 

759
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,400
But that's that's the second 
most powerful thing you can say 

760
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,240
other than we've just dropped 
the CapEx is we don't need to 

761
00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:15,600
raise any more money for a long 
time. 

762
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:17,760
The only way to get those shares
is to go on market and buy it. 

763
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,160
So I think it was a good thing 
for them to do in that case that

764
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,280
regard. 
If you think that there is any 

765
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,200
MNA coming and I know no better 
than anybody else does here, but

766
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,440
if that was to occur, you want 
to give yourself the longest 

767
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,200
possible time to, we've got to 
work through that. 

768
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,640
And so having an expanded Kitty 
there also puts them in a very 

769
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,480
strong position to be able to 
say, look, we're, we're 

770
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,480
drilling, we're doing our PFS. 
You know, if someone's 

771
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,360
interested here, then let's 
talk. 

772
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:46,160
But the, the worst time to enter
into an M and a discussion and 

773
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,760
I've, I've been a part of this 
is when you know, you need to 

774
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,400
raise money in the next 6 months
because once that M&A discussion

775
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,920
starts, it's incredibly 
difficult to raise money. 

776
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,760
And once that Ave. is taken 
away, it takes away a real 

777
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:58,960
platform of strength. 
You can be you can be starved 

778
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:01,520
very rapidly. 
While we're talking about M and 

779
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:07,120
A2 of your portfolio companies 
merged very recently in Bright 

780
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:11,600
Star and and Alto, was this, was
this a, you know, a deal you 

781
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,240
were pretty, pretty keen to see 
happen as a, as a shareholder of

782
00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:19,440
both and kind of encouraged. 
Definitely blessed it. 

783
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,800
Yeah, we were. 
We were very happy to see that 

784
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:25,840
as an outcome. 
And the the pure, the biggest 

785
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,800
reason for that is that the 
operating assets which Bright 

786
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,880
Star have, I mean Bright Star 
had nothing in it at that point 

787
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,280
which was extremely large, high 
grade or anything like that. 

788
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,400
It was a scatter of smallish 
things. 

789
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:41,400
And by smallish I mean up to a 
few 100,000 oz but quite close. 

790
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:43,200
M&A that company. 
Yeah. 

791
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,560
Well, I mean, one, one thing 
which I would say Alex 

792
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:49,160
recognised very, very well a 
couple of years ago when he 

793
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,760
stepped in to be the MD was he 
said these might not be 

794
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,040
glamorous gold deposits, but 
they are so close to other 

795
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,600
people's process facilities 
don't need to build 1. 

796
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,840
So to get into business, we need
only a small level of CapEx. 

797
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,560
And that's, I think that's been 
a very good thing for him it 

798
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,200
because he's gone through a few 
transactions. 

799
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,560
I would say that the market is 
saying, well, you show me that 

800
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:11,480
you can make money now, but you 
know, he's making money poured 

801
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,720
gold the other day. 
So I suspect that you give it a 

802
00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:17,480
couple of quarters of delivery 
there and the market will start 

803
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,880
to listen and we'll start to 
say, well, let's talk about 

804
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,000
growth. 
All of a sudden the, the growth 

805
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,560
story which they now have is 
that the cash flow they make 

806
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:29,120
from those small assets and 
this, this, this, this trend of 

807
00:37:29,240 --> 00:37:32,320
commercializing small assets has
become possible in the gold 

808
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,840
market because there's so many 
big mills around. 

809
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,680
There's a lot of capacity to be 
processing parcels of all. 

810
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:39,880
I mean, I, I know that's a glib 
remark. 

811
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:41,880
Not every single one has 
capacity and it can vary in 

812
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,080
time. 
But it wasn't possible 10 years 

813
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:47,960
ago. 10 years ago, if you had a 
gold deposit, you had to build 

814
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:49,360
your own mill. 
That was just the way it worked.

815
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,160
And it was almost a disgrace to 
go to the market and say, no, 

816
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,080
we're just going to dig it up 
and sell it to make a little bit

817
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,280
of money. 
Now, if you do it, you can 

818
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,360
achieve a pretty reasonable 
valuation off of the back of 

819
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,000
doing that, and you can make 
good cash, particularly if 

820
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,120
you're doing it today. 
Yeah, so. 

821
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:05,800
Then you can risk share like you
don't even have to stump up the 

822
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,280
CapEx to do it. 
Like we're drinking stubbies of 

823
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,440
of MMS, right? 
Like, yeah, and and they're one 

824
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,120
of The Pioneers. 
Of that model funny you should 

825
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:13,440
mention it. 
You guys are usually pretty 

826
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:14,720
quiet about your sponsors, 
aren't you? 

827
00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:18,440
So no, we're he's. 
Given you the layup mate, have 

828
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:21,080
we done them this way? 
But it's it. 

829
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,080
Is interesting, right? 
Like, I mean, I mean, you know, 

830
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,560
they're one of several who 
who've been willing to come on 

831
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:29,160
the scene and, and, and really 
provide an Ave. for cash flow 

832
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,400
for these gold juniors by taking
like wearing a fair bit of risk 

833
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,720
in the process, but sharing the 
upside, the equity upside. 

834
00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:36,880
And in a rising gold market, 
everyone's very happy with that 

835
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:38,200
situation. 
Including shareholders and 

836
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,560
therein is the is the the point 
as well. 

837
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,080
So all of a sudden you can do 
these small gold deposits. 

838
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,600
The thing is that for anyone who
owns a small gold deposit, you 

839
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,840
know, if they go to 
institutional investors and say,

840
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,440
well, we're a $15 million 
company, we've made $8 million 

841
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,720
of cash in the last 12 months, 
aren't we wonderful? 

842
00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:55,600
You should buy us. 
The institution goes, well, 

843
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,200
that's great, but what next? 
I mean, you've made that money, 

844
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,960
you've got nothing left, what 
are you going to apply it to? 

845
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,720
So that's the question with a 
lot of these companies. 

846
00:39:03,720 --> 00:39:06,200
And for us, Bright Star was 
something we wanted to get 

847
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,320
involved with because we saw 
this commercialization over a, 

848
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,400
you know, it was, it was a good 
million oz that we could see 

849
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,200
were possible between the in the
Menzies area. 

850
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,600
And that's over a period of time
that that would generate a 

851
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:19,560
reasonable amount of cash. 
But at the start, and that was a

852
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:23,240
smaller investment for us to 
start with, there wasn't the big

853
00:39:23,240 --> 00:39:26,480
growth asset. 
So when Alex's approach to us 

854
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:30,080
was to say we'd like to do 
something with Alto, that's 

855
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:31,440
where the growth project came 
in. 

856
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:35,280
So, you know, to fund Alto all 
on its own, there's dilution to 

857
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:36,560
shareholders. 
You got to take that into 

858
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:38,760
account with whatever return 
profile you think you're you're 

859
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,000
expecting from the asset. 
And if you put that into a 

860
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,680
company which has the ability to
fund it without having to raise 

861
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,400
money, then all of a sudden that
just gets squeezed into the 

862
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:47,520
amount of shares which are on 
issue. 

863
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,480
So that, that was the investment
thesis that saw us build our 

864
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,320
position when that deal took 
place. 

865
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,400
And I, I still think it was a 
fantastic deal. 

866
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,600
So interestingly, you know, 
Bright Star has traded fairly 

867
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,760
flat since that deal took place.
And I think when you buy 

868
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,040
something and you issue a lot of
shares, there's indigestion. 

869
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,320
So a lot of those get turned 
over style, shareholders, 

870
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,880
whatever. 
Consolidation of shares too, so.

871
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:10,320
I think so too, yeah. 
Yeah. 

872
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:12,520
But but you know, they've, 
they've done that. 

873
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:14,680
I think they've got a lot of 
that hard work in the market 

874
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:16,840
behind them. 
They're now concentrating as far

875
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:20,800
as I can see on develop on 
delivering that, that first part

876
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,000
of the story. 
And you know, for them to be 

877
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,760
able to work aggressively on a 
project like that sandstone 

878
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,400
project, which Alto had that 
needed that was living on 2 to 

879
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,920
$3,000,000 a year of exploration
and spend, which is not enough 

880
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,120
to be doing it justice. 
I think the market won't sit 

881
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:39,480
there and be patient and say 
we'll reward you for that. 

882
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,720
If you're spending between 5:00 
and 10:00, that's where you can 

883
00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:45,080
start to meaningfully grow 
resources and do it in a period 

884
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:48,160
of time where the market can see
that and go this is getting a 

885
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:49,880
lot bigger. 
And I mean, that's, you know, 

886
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,480
there's, I think there's been 
about 5-4 to 5 million oz 

887
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:56,800
produced over that sandstone 
greenstone belt, which Bright 

888
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:58,800
Star don't own the whole lot of,
but between them and the 

889
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,600
neighbor, they have most of it. 
That's a hell of a lot of gold 

890
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,280
for one greenstone belt. 
And I mean, the average depth of

891
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,120
drilling is like 70 or 80 
meters. 

892
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:11,360
So, you know, you extrapolate 
that to 200 and what's the 

893
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,240
inventory going to look like? 
You know, you're still well 

894
00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:15,320
within open pitable depth and 
there's some pretty big 

895
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,680
footprints in there. 
So that that is an exploration 

896
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:21,200
and growth story is amazing. 
So I mean, if you're asking me 

897
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,800
and this is not informed by what
they've told me, I'd cast my eye

898
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,080
over the maps and, you know, use
my own imagination. 

899
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,680
They bought something at 
Sandstone between that and the 

900
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:34,640
Gateway Gold tenure which was 
dealt in, which is about one, 

901
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,120
one and a half million oz. 
So for that to turn into a two 

902
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,400
and a three, I think can happen 
reasonably rapidly and in the 

903
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,640
sense of, you know, 1-2 or three
years. 

904
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,080
And by the time you've got 
3,000,000 oz sitting in that 

905
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,000
part of the world, which is 
ringed by Mills, but no one in 

906
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,840
the middle, it's like, well, 
it's a 3,000,000 oz asset, which

907
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:51,960
would be very attractive. 
It's in. 

908
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:53,880
The middle. 
But it's not very, very good 

909
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:55,280
news. 
It's pretty much dead, yeah. 

910
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,440
Yeah, by by process facility, I 
mean something that you can put 

911
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:00,400
ore into and then gold comes out
the other end. 

912
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:02,520
Well, do you think they're 
probably and do you think 

913
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,720
they're probably getting 
penalised because they 

914
00:42:05,720 --> 00:42:08,320
essentially have to build a mill
there? 

915
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,840
Like what The the only two 
options I can think of that have

916
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,360
enough potential scale close 
enough by will be Kirka Locker 

917
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,240
and Walluna. 
And they're both pretty 

918
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,520
trackable. 
It's trackable, but it's still a

919
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:22,960
good chunk. 
So there. 

920
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,400
Do you think they know that 
there's a big, it is a growth 

921
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,200
story, yes, but they're going to
have to build it. 

922
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:32,120
Well, I think that they're in 
business elsewhere and their 

923
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,440
intention is to apply the cash 
flow. 

924
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,160
They're getting to 
reestablishing cash flow out of 

925
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,760
their own process facility at 
Laverton, which would mean 

926
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,160
they're an owner operator and 
you know, they they would have a

927
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,280
lot more control over their own 
destiny than from the Labourton 

928
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,000
perspective. 
Might they just keep giving it 

929
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:47,920
to RAL? 
Well, they. 

930
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:52,120
Couldn't wouldn't be a lot of 
because that's a until Genesis 

931
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,520
get their, you know, get their 
own operations up and go under 

932
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,680
the to feed, you know, 
potentially 4 million tonne 

933
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,400
through that Mount Morgan's 
mill. 

934
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,760
Like they'll be crime for dirt. 
Well, I would have thought so 

935
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,240
too, but I don't know how 
rallied feel about me saying 

936
00:43:07,240 --> 00:43:08,600
that He's desperate for that 
dirt. 

937
00:43:08,720 --> 00:43:11,840
I don't know if it's quite so 
simple, but you know, there's 

938
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:16,160
bound to be a playoff between 
how much it costs to, you know, 

939
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:20,320
have the dirt process there 
anywhere else or to bring your 

940
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,680
own facility along. 
Now, if there wasn't a an 

941
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,000
existing facility at Laverton, 
the bright star could 

942
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,520
rejuvenate. 
Different decision, you know. 

943
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,800
So clearly it gives them that 
optionality which can be very, 

944
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:36,160
very helpful in discussions. 
But I suppose if in, I don't 

945
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,120
know, let's say it's three years
from now, they start saying what

946
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,320
should we do at Sandstone? 
If you've been operating for 

947
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,640
that long, you've built your 
market capitalization to a 

948
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:47,480
certain level. 
Yeah, you'll, you'll have to 

949
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:50,200
build a new milling facility, 
but how will you do that? 

950
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,320
Well, I would expect you'd have 
a much bigger market cap to be 

951
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,320
able to raise money off. 
So it might not be as 

952
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:56,760
dilutionary. 
You may have the cash flow to, 

953
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,800
to fund your equity and your 
ability to raise debt is going 

954
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:01,400
to be, you'll have far more 
flexibility. 

955
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:05,440
So I, I don't know if that 
penalisation would be occurring 

956
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,120
now. 
If I had to say what's what's 

957
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,320
holding Bright Star back, it 
would be there's been selling of

958
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,160
former Alto shareholders and 
there's probably been a 

959
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,400
perception that there's been a 
couple of deals to pull things 

960
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:17,640
together. 
Is there any more of that? 

961
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:19,800
And they just need to settle 
into a rhythm of delivery. 

962
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:21,480
And it looks to me like that's 
what they're doing. 

963
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,040
What about the Menzies stuff 
like do you think they need to 

964
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,760
probably simplify the business a
bit and divest because it's, 

965
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,520
it's, there's a lot going on and
it's probably, it's a bit hard 

966
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,160
to actually wrap your head 
around of, you know, what's, 

967
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:34,960
where's all this shit coming 
from? 

968
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:39,320
I've introduced Alex at a couple
of situations recently where I 

969
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,840
think he had 15 minutes and in 
both situations I was standing 

970
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,160
next to him at about the 17 
minute mark. 

971
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:49,000
Go mate, are you finished? 
So he has a big story to tell. 

972
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:52,280
So I mean your point around 
simplification, you know, if 

973
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,000
someone offered to take it off 
your hands, would you do it? 

974
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,040
I, I don't know. 
I as a shareholder, I'd say, 

975
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:00,520
well, if there was value coming 
in, you'd, you'd be foolish not 

976
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:04,360
to think about it. 
But they, they had produced from

977
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:08,280
Menzies in the last 12 months, 
which I, I think that probably 

978
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,440
shows you that. 
But for getting the resources 

979
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,760
set up in a milling arrangement,
they could do that again. 

980
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,520
In which case, if you think you 
can make money from it, then the

981
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:18,760
impetus to be trying to do 
something with it might diminish

982
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:22,200
pretty quickly. 
So I, I guess, you know, if 

983
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,680
people are talking about it, 
then they'd be weighing up 1 

984
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,240
alternative against the other. 
But I think I mean from from 

985
00:45:27,240 --> 00:45:29,160
chatting to those guys and 
keeping in touch with them, they

986
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:31,760
seem pretty focused on 
delivering gold and there's 

987
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,600
probably far more kudos in doing
that than there would be on 

988
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,840
executing more deals unless they
were ridiculously priced. 

989
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:42,440
So and. 
You've got another gold junior 

990
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:47,160
which has probably, yeah, not 
had a real run like some of the 

991
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:50,960
other portfolio ones. 
Saturn who yeah to that to 

992
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:53,280
announced today raised 23 
million bucks. 

993
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:56,920
You guys tipped in another 4 and
you you kind of maintain that 17

994
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,240
1/2 percentage shareholding of 
the company. 

995
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:01,880
You speak to people and 
historically there's there's 

996
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,600
been a, you know a knock on 
Saturn that it's 10 million ton 

997
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:06,360
per annum heap leach. 
So everyone's scared of it 

998
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,760
because it's massive size and 
also like how many 10 million 

999
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:11,400
ton per annum heap bleach is 
going around that's a lot of 

1000
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:15,480
dirt to move yadda yadda, but at
these gold prices probably makes

1001
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,680
a fair bit of money. 
Are you not worried about any of

1002
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:21,440
the, the, the, the logistical 
kind of nerves that, that a lot 

1003
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,400
of the market has here? 
No, not so much. 

1004
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:27,360
I mean, I think, I think the 
Western Australian mining 

1005
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,400
industry is very familiar with 
bulk operations. 

1006
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,920
What they're not familiar with 
is bulk operations in a gold 

1007
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:34,600
mine. 
And that's because in most gold 

1008
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,320
mines, you need to be extremely 
selective because your gold, 

1009
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:39,640
your gold zone, you know, could 
be somewhere between half a 

1010
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,480
meter wide and 10 meters wide, 
you know, 10 meters in a great 

1011
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,200
case. 
And if you leave half a metre of

1012
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,760
that behind or put it in with a 
waste or take too much waste, it

1013
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,360
can be a real problem for you in
the Saturn case. 

1014
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,400
I mean, one of the reasons which
we really like Saturn and this 

1015
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,040
is our biggest investment by 
funds deployed. 

1016
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,240
So it's something that we've 
demonstrated a fair bit of 

1017
00:47:00,720 --> 00:47:03,000
commitment to. 
And I think by the time you've 

1018
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:06,080
invested that much money in it, 
your futures are somewhat 

1019
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:07,800
intertwined. 
I mean, if we decided tomorrow 

1020
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,760
that we're sick of Saturn, the 
ability to sell that for us is 

1021
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:14,400
it's a moot point. 
So you know, we are, we think 

1022
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:18,040
very highly of those guys. 
The reason to be there, the 

1023
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:20,040
feeling of longevity is all is 
all present. 

1024
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:24,120
But looking at the project, take
your point about heat bleaching,

1025
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:26,800
if that project was in North 
America, we wouldn't be having 

1026
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:28,920
this discussion. 
We'd be talking about how they 

1027
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,480
started producing 6 months ago 
and the resource is still 

1028
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:34,840
growing. 
I think it's a, it's a market 

1029
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,240
that that isn't as familiar with
heat bleaching. 

1030
00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:39,520
And I get that, you know, that's
just a, that's a bridge that 

1031
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:41,840
needs to be crossed. 
But the important thing about 

1032
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:46,200
that deposit is inside of a pit 
design, the strip ratio is about

1033
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:48,640
1 1/2 to 1. 
So you look at any other gold 

1034
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:52,400
mine in WA and how much waste do
you have to move to get a tonne 

1035
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,200
of ore to the wrong? 
And it's probably the average is

1036
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:56,400
going to be between 5:00 and 
10:00. 

1037
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,760
In this case it's 1 1/2. 
So you're moving a lot less 

1038
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,400
waste. 
So the tonne, dollar per tonne 

1039
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:06,000
cost of moving ore of generating
ore is just like a fraction. 

1040
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:10,440
Plus, you know any other open, 
most other gold open pits, you 

1041
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:14,360
might blast 10 metres of of of 
material then to mine it, 

1042
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,760
whether it's oral waste, you 
take it in 2 1/2 meter flitches,

1043
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,760
maybe 5 if you're really being 
aggressive in order to be 

1044
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:21,280
selective. 
In this case, you know you blast

1045
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,840
10 and you'll mine it with a 
face shovel rather than needing 

1046
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,600
you use a digger. 
So the, the efficiency of moving

1047
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:30,360
that material and, and the need 
to be selective, just being so 

1048
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:32,440
much less. 
I think he's a big protection 

1049
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:34,400
because you don't, you just 
don't face that risk of 

1050
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:36,320
accidentally throwing the ore 
away because you're going to be 

1051
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,280
in awe for three days, not for 
half an hour as you are in most 

1052
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:41,960
open pits. 
And then heap leach processing. 

1053
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:44,320
I mean, the, the risk you have 
on heap leach processing is will

1054
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,920
the recovery work and will the 
heaps stand up in a geotech 

1055
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:50,720
sense to the height that you 
need them to in order to 

1056
00:48:50,720 --> 00:48:55,200
efficiently irrigate them? 
I think it's 44 odd percent of 

1057
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:58,000
gold is produced in the world 
comes out of heap leachers. 

1058
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,800
This is this is a technology 
which is not new. 

1059
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:03,760
It's very, very well understood.
So I think, you know, we feel 

1060
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,320
like we've been buying something
which is poorly understood in a,

1061
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:08,120
in a market which really gets 
gold. 

1062
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:11,760
So, you know, I'm a bit puzzled 
as to exactly how that'll come 

1063
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:14,560
about. 
But I know that there are there 

1064
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:16,720
are foreign companies that drop 
in and say hello and they're 

1065
00:49:16,720 --> 00:49:18,760
like, jeez, mate, you've got 
something special there. 

1066
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:23,320
So if there's that kind of eyes 
on it, these companies, you 

1067
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:24,920
know, aren't operating in the 
Australian market. 

1068
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:28,280
But if they needed an excuse to 
having the right size asset, you

1069
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:31,000
know this is 120,000 oz per 
annum for 10 years or more. 

1070
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaking like a 7 1/2% 
shareholder. 

1071
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:35,520
There. 
What do you say? 

1072
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:37,800
Ding, Ding, Ding. 
Yeah, yeah, Must disclose it, 

1073
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:39,240
but. 
We're gonna have to say a few of

1074
00:49:39,240 --> 00:49:41,960
them when we talk about ally 
stocks, which, yeah, Shorty 

1075
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:43,600
chop. 
Can't believe you haven't 

1076
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,160
mentioned 1 yet. 
Yeah, we'll get there. 

1077
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:48,040
We'll get there. 
She did give us her To Do List, 

1078
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:49,600
didn't she? 
So yeah, could you put a good 

1079
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:50,880
word in for? 
Yeah, exactly. 

1080
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,480
And I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm 
looking at your portfolio and, 

1081
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:57,560
and we're kind of there's, you 
know, there's a couple of names 

1082
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:00,040
I'm not very familiar with, to 
be honest as well, like Coon, 

1083
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,960
Coonberry Gold and you know, in 
addition to them Sunshine 

1084
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,320
Metals. 
Run me through what you what you

1085
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:08,960
see there with those names. 
Well, Cunenbury first we 

1086
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,800
invested in Cunenbury when it 
had one project, it's namesake, 

1087
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:15,680
which is in northwestern NSW, 
Cunenbury project. 

1088
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:18,720
It's a, it's an area where 
there's been a very substantial 

1089
00:50:18,720 --> 00:50:21,560
amount of alluvial gold mining. 
So there's been shedding of 

1090
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:24,680
Nuggets which don't look like 
they've travelled very far for a

1091
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:27,920
long period of time. 
It's sort of had a gold rush in 

1092
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:31,160
the era of gold rushes, but very
remote, very dry, very difficult

1093
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:34,360
to get to, and close enough to 
Broken Hill that when people 

1094
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:37,640
started finding gold, there was 
also a big silver rush to the 

1095
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:39,960
Broken Hill area. 
So it kind of was found and then

1096
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,920
forgotten. 
I think there's been a lot of 

1097
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:47,320
modern prospecting success and 
there's been a few Hard Rock 

1098
00:50:47,720 --> 00:50:51,360
intersections and, you know, 
golden quartz samples picked up.

1099
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:54,320
So there's all this smoke. 
We invested in that at a 

1100
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:55,880
valuation which was incredibly 
low. 

1101
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:58,760
I think it was like an EV of 
about 1.2 million bucks that the

1102
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:01,640
day we first invested. 
So we put money in effectively 

1103
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:03,600
buying into a shell which had a 
project in it. 

1104
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:06,080
It had a chance. 
It had fantastic management. 

1105
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:09,760
I think very highly of the, of 
the MD there and also the board 

1106
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:14,280
and off they went to explore. 
That wasn't to be they, they 

1107
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:15,560
just didn't get the instant 
success. 

1108
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,360
And you know, exploration, 
sometimes it can cost you 

1109
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:19,480
1,000,000 bucks to find 
something. 

1110
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:21,160
It's just you don't know if it's
going to be your first million 

1111
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:23,040
bucks or yeah, 100th, 1,000,000 
bucks. 

1112
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:26,440
So in their case, they wisely 
said, you know, rather than 

1113
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:29,840
keeping being aggressive with 
this, they came across a deal to

1114
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:33,040
deal into some effectively a 
back door listing of selection 

1115
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:36,720
of NSW exploration portfolio. 
And there were some real 

1116
00:51:36,720 --> 00:51:39,040
crackers in this. 
I mean, this was some ex Newmont

1117
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:40,600
guys. 
They put together some big 

1118
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:42,600
targets. 
They had some JVS with Newmont. 

1119
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:46,040
They had a high grade gold 
situation up close to Armadale 

1120
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,600
that got vended in and and from 
there I think I think that 

1121
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:52,440
stocks up about 4 1/2 times. 
So it's been a fantastic 

1122
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:57,520
performance off the back of that
deal in and the new slow which 

1123
00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:00,160
can come from that and you know 
fantastic valuation that had 

1124
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:02,360
occurred at as well. 
So it was not one of those silly

1125
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:05,000
deals where it it happens in an 
enormous number and then it 

1126
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,040
trades backwards because 
everybody realises how greedy it

1127
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:08,600
was. 
It was exactly the other way 

1128
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:11,680
around to that. 
So Coonabri to us when we invest

1129
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:13,600
in early stage exploration, you 
can't value it. 

1130
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:15,320
You're you're trading on 
speculation. 

1131
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:16,640
You don't know what's going to 
happen. 

1132
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:18,320
You can have all the hopes in 
the world. 

1133
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:19,800
You can have magnificent 
science. 

1134
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:21,760
It can happen on a really nice 
weather day. 

1135
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:24,680
You can be as lucky as you want.
But you know, in the end, if it 

1136
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,560
doesn't produce a discovery that
really gets the market going, 

1137
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:28,720
then you don't get your price 
return. 

1138
00:52:28,720 --> 00:52:31,440
So to do it, you have to feel 
like you're doing it at a 

1139
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:34,520
absolute rock bottom value and 
you have to be able to see a 

1140
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:38,280
transformational outcome to it. 
So in Canonbury's case, we 

1141
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:41,520
reasoned that it, it wouldn't 
take as much to produce a 10 or 

1142
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:45,840
20 times return from, I think 
we're about $600,000 in there 

1143
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,840
from that level of investment. 
And, and so it was something 

1144
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,080
where we could feel, well, 
there's, there's a really good 

1145
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:54,680
possible return. 
We can see many, many, many 

1146
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:57,880
opportunities for that to occur.
And we're doing it at a cheap 

1147
00:52:57,880 --> 00:52:59,040
level. 
So there's, there's not a lot 

1148
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:01,800
holding back that return if, if 
they get lucky with the result. 

1149
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:06,560
And Sunshine, Sunshine is 
probably the opposite of that. 

1150
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:10,080
Damian Keyes, the managing 
director, is a guy I've known 

1151
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:12,480
since uni. 
He was a year above me at uni. 

1152
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:14,960
Casey wouldn't thank me for 
saying he started a couple of 

1153
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:16,760
years ahead of me and I, I 
didn't catch up. 

1154
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:17,880
It's, you know, he took his 
time. 

1155
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:24,400
So Casey's going on to, I mean, 
he has been behind some fabulous

1156
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:28,200
project pull togethers. 
So probably the best one is 

1157
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:31,120
Penny W, which was a chemical 
spectrum got taken over by 

1158
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:32,680
Remilius for about 300 million 
bucks. 

1159
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:36,240
And Casey had been involved in 
the pull apart of the geology 

1160
00:53:36,240 --> 00:53:37,200
and then putting it back 
together. 

1161
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:40,200
And that's what Casey does. 
Fantastic with data sets, 

1162
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:42,360
fantastic with working with 
people in that environment. 

1163
00:53:42,720 --> 00:53:47,760
And he was exploring in North 
QLD Red River had gone into 

1164
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:50,760
administration and there. 
We just spoke about them that I 

1165
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,720
on the back of Hillgrove, OH. 
I haven't, I haven't listened to

1166
00:53:53,720 --> 00:53:55,040
that one that yeah, just. 
Just got up. 

1167
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:58,640
Poor, old, poor old River went 
out of business at just the 

1168
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:02,600
wrong moment there. 
They had a, they had a troubled 

1169
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:06,520
operation at Falanga. 
And by troubled, I mean they'd 

1170
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:09,560
run into all kinds of financial 
problems and, and Falanga had 

1171
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:11,640
brought that operating entity to
its knees. 

1172
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:14,440
So it was put into 
administration shortly before 

1173
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:16,760
the whole of Red River went to 
the administrators. 

1174
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:21,120
So Casey and Sunshine dealt with
the administrators of Red River 

1175
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:23,480
to purchase this. 
And what was attractive was the 

1176
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:26,280
Thalanga project gets pulled 
out, you get everything else. 

1177
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:28,360
So you take no liabilities, 
you're not operating. 

1178
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:31,080
But there is a hell of a lot of 
money had been spent in the data

1179
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:32,880
set. 
And I think, you know, the 

1180
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,720
replacement value of the data 
which they acquired in that move

1181
00:54:35,720 --> 00:54:38,960
would have been probably 40 or 
$50 million worth of years and 

1182
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:41,600
years and years of soil work, 
geophysics, drilling. 

1183
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:44,560
There was an existing resource 
at a project called Lyontam. 

1184
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:47,920
They've grown that by about 50%.
I think it started at about 4 

1185
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:49,400
million tonnes. 
It's now 6,000,000 tonnes. 

1186
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,720
And it was a mixed metal. 
So it's AVMS, it's got zinc, 

1187
00:54:52,720 --> 00:54:55,480
copper, gold. 
They drilled a few holes. 

1188
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:57,840
But the, the, the wonderful 
thing which Casey did yet again 

1189
00:54:57,840 --> 00:54:59,920
was pulled the geology of pieces
and said where are the high 

1190
00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:03,000
grade shoots? 
You know, first we invested in 

1191
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:05,760
this as a base metals investment
wanting to diversify our 

1192
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:09,840
commodity sort of exposure. 
And I think the second or third 

1193
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:12,640
result that he had was about 20 
odd metres at 19 grams gold. 

1194
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:16,280
And it was like this is supposed
to be our base metals exposure. 

1195
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:18,200
So they performed strongly off 
of that. 

1196
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:21,560
They repeated it with another 
hit and this was drilling into 

1197
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:25,600
high grade shoot in the deposit.
So it didn't, you know, it 

1198
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:27,720
didn't reflect what the rest of 
the deposit look like. 

1199
00:55:27,720 --> 00:55:33,120
But they've done a wonderful job
of fleshing out exactly what 

1200
00:55:33,240 --> 00:55:35,520
loads of which and, and I don't 
think that have been 

1201
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:37,840
particularly well done. 
So they now have a resource 

1202
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:39,680
which I think has been upgraded 
in terms of quality. 

1203
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:42,520
It's been expanded. 
But in that same period of time 

1204
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:44,720
they've also brought many, many 
targets forward. 

1205
00:55:44,720 --> 00:55:48,520
So we bought into that for circa
a $10 million EV. 

1206
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:52,280
It's more or less been the same 
each time we've invested and we 

1207
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:55,280
put a bit of money in another 
half $1,000,000 in recently. 

1208
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:59,000
And and the thesis was Lion Town
is not far from being the scale 

1209
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:00,840
that it probably could be 
thought about to be developed. 

1210
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:04,720
No one is thinking outside of 
probably the heartland of WA 

1211
00:56:04,720 --> 00:56:07,320
about how you can put your roar 
into someone else's mill. 

1212
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:10,760
And that's a very well developed
area, the Charters Towers area. 

1213
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:13,800
So there's you know, four or 
five plants or former plant 

1214
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:16,400
sites. 
There are, there are some 

1215
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:19,920
tailings opportunities which 
would be quite valuable that I 

1216
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:22,800
think probably feed into the 
critical minerals piece in 

1217
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,440
Queensland. 
So that doesn't exist in WA, It 

1218
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:28,320
does in North Queensland and 
there's a clean up that goes 

1219
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:30,960
along with that. 
So sunshine has a very dynamic 

1220
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,280
outlook there. 
But they they have something 

1221
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:34,840
which is very valuable in the 
ground. 

1222
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:37,960
I think it is developable. 
They're going to add to that in 

1223
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:40,120
the next couple of years and you
know if you're going to back 

1224
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:42,920
anyone to look in the right 
place, easy to be one of the 

1225
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:44,480
very few people that I'd choose 
to do that. 

1226
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:46,160
And he's operating in a data 
rich environment. 

1227
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:49,760
So that one continues to go 
under the radar of the market. 

1228
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:52,000
But everybody has their moment 
and I think that one, that one 

1229
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:53,840
will probably set up really 
reasonably soon. 

1230
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:55,200
Like it? 
It's our sunshine soon. 

1231
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:57,760
Yeah, yeah, it'll have its day 
in the sun. 

1232
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:02,040
We should we should pick your 
brain Headley about, you know, a

1233
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:04,880
lot of the the gold projects 
that aren't even in your in your

1234
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:07,560
portfolio, but I'm sure you've 
you've run your eyes over them 

1235
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:10,480
and and have a view. 
And there's there's no shortage 

1236
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:14,400
of, of companies that have a 
fair endowment that yeah, like 

1237
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:17,840
maybe go under the radar or, or 
or or or maybe you're going to 

1238
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:19,920
have their moment or have had 
their moment in the past. 

1239
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:23,240
But Ozgold's Katanning really 
comes to mind. 

1240
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:25,480
Been around a long time. 
You know, there's, there's 

1241
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:30,920
3,000,000 oz resource there. 
Will it, will it be a, you know,

1242
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:33,280
will it get developed in the 
midst of this gold cycle? 

1243
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:34,840
Do you think? 
Are you, are you kind of on the 

1244
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:38,360
on the sidelines watching? 
Well, everything that has an 

1245
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:40,720
established inventory now has 
the best chance that it's going 

1246
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:42,600
to have, right? 
Because when the gold market 

1247
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:45,000
comes, your ability to raise 
money comes with it. 

1248
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:49,720
I think one of the things, and 
particularly in WA is there are 

1249
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:51,840
a lot of people who look at a 
project and then go, what's it 

1250
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:53,360
near? 
Who could take it over? 

1251
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:55,520
Where's the tension? 
Is there another mill? 

1252
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:57,680
You know that and that in this 
current market that's a big 

1253
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:00,200
feature. 
Osgold sits out there on its 

1254
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:01,440
own. 
That project was originally 

1255
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:03,720
called Boddington South by some 
of the original management, 

1256
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:06,800
which you know, it is South of 
Boddington, but bloody long way.

1257
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:10,000
So, you know, it's not like you 
can consider it a, an extension 

1258
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:13,360
or even analogous. 
It's just in the vague region. 

1259
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:16,000
You might as well call it 
fucking Perth South or 

1260
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:19,400
something. 
But you know the originally as 

1261
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:20,400
well. 
I can remember some of the 

1262
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:23,480
intersections that came from the
first management team after that

1263
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:26,600
company listed and it went from 
about a $8 million IPO to being 

1264
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:29,880
160 mill market cap company. 
I remember writing due diligence

1265
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:31,720
on it and scratching my head 
just going, they've got an 

1266
00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:34,120
incredibly small deposit. 
Why is this going to such a 

1267
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:35,640
value? 
A lot of border under the bridge

1268
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:39,520
since then, but things that sort
of get a run on and then fall 

1269
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:41,720
flat on their face, which is 
what happened many, many years 

1270
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:44,880
ago. 
That rejuvenation is always 

1271
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:47,800
challenged because anytime you 
get a run of luck, there's 

1272
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:50,080
always someone style that just 
goes, oh, I don't trust you 

1273
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:51,840
anymore. 
And you know, your price goes 

1274
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:53,240
up, comes straight back down as 
they sell. 

1275
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:56,280
So I don't know if that's still 
a factor, but it, you know, it 

1276
00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:58,760
is distal. 
So it needs to develop itself 

1277
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:00,480
all on its own. 
It needs to find that scale. 

1278
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:04,160
And I think that's probably one 
of the things, which is what the

1279
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:06,720
market would be thinking, do I 
fund them or do I fund something

1280
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:08,480
where there is that bit of 
tension? 

1281
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:11,720
Now, having said that, they have
a register, which is pretty 

1282
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:13,480
impressive. 
You know, Dundee's a big 

1283
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:15,320
shareholder there. 
They're a global gold investor. 

1284
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:17,840
They know what they're doing. 
They've put representatives on 

1285
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:19,480
the board. 
And John Dalwood's been around. 

1286
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:22,440
He, he's operated in some very 
tough parts of the world as 

1287
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:24,320
well. 
So, you know, if you want to 

1288
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:26,360
give something a good chance, 
give it a gold, a good gold 

1289
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:28,080
market and give it the people 
who know what they're doing. 

1290
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:31,760
So, you know, if you could pick 
that up, which I know you can't,

1291
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:34,320
and put it right next to 
Kalgoorlie, it wouldn't be in 

1292
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:36,760
the ground anymore. 
So I'd say the fact the reason 

1293
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:40,680
why it's undeveloped is, is 
because of where it is, and 

1294
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:42,640
that's one of the things that 
I'll need to overcome it. 

1295
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:45,600
Was it was a historic mine, 
right Like there is there is 

1296
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:47,160
like, you know, historic open 
pits there. 

1297
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:48,520
So at some point it was mine, 
but. 

1298
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:51,560
It's Peter Alexander who was 
Dominion at the time. 

1299
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:55,520
I remember bumping into him. 
It would have been 10 or 12 

1300
00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:58,880
years ago and I, I happened to 
mention to him that I've been 

1301
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:01,280
looking at and he goes, I 
remember mining that and it was 

1302
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:03,080
probably 30 years ago at that 
point. 

1303
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:06,600
So Dominion Once Upon a time. 
Is he not the follower that made

1304
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:09,160
the pyjamas different? 
Peter Alexander. 

1305
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:11,720
I asked him that. 
I asked him that myself once, 

1306
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:14,520
and he he was suitably 
ambiguous. 

1307
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:16,080
But no, I don't think the two 
are connected. 

1308
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:18,680
You're right. 
Or if you're a bloody speaking 

1309
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:23,000
because back to Medallion 
though, you know, pushing the 

1310
01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:25,120
story around the exact same 
time. 

1311
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:27,360
Do you think Alkane are going to
act on them? 

1312
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:29,800
They wouldn't have went in there
for no reason. 

1313
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:34,200
Well, Alkane's invested in a 
number of companies in an equity

1314
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:37,200
sense. 
I've been involved in companies 

1315
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:40,160
where the name's been mentioned.
So you wouldn't be the first 

1316
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:42,120
time they bought equity in a 
company and they haven't taken 

1317
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:44,840
one over yet. 
Callitus, Genesis, historically.

1318
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:48,040
Yeah, Yeah, yeah. 
Now that doesn't, I mean that 

1319
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:49,440
all that is, is a pattern, 
right? 

1320
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:52,000
And patterns can evolve in 
interesting ways because 

1321
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:54,520
sometimes you try something and 
try something and try something 

1322
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:56,800
and then you do it and you 
succeed at what you were going 

1323
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:58,000
out there to do. 
And I don't know what they're 

1324
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:00,240
trying to achieve. 
I, I would say they're not an 

1325
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:02,760
investment company because they 
are a gold mining company and a,

1326
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:06,320
and a mining company, in which 
case you can see some of the 

1327
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:08,560
reasoning. 
Now I look at the pattern of the

1328
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:12,160
things which they had done. 
And Genesis was before RAL, they

1329
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:14,120
were backing something where I 
think they probably felt they 

1330
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:16,680
could import some mining 
expertise. 

1331
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:19,600
Then the deal came together, 
which created the modern Genesis

1332
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:22,800
and Rally came in with it and 
what Caddell came at then if 

1333
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:25,120
they were value oriented, they 
probably said, well, you know, 

1334
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:29,880
the equation has changed Caledus
long way from the heartland of 

1335
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:31,840
gold. 
So I think they'll probably 

1336
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:36,520
around the edges going where is 
the something where we can see 

1337
01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:38,200
value. 
We might be able to aid with our

1338
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:40,840
balance sheet. 
So, you know, maybe if you and 

1339
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:44,520
then in Caledus's case, it, it 
probably tipped the other way 

1340
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:47,480
and he knows maybe they looked 
at it after it after it fell 

1341
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:50,000
over. 
But so medallion, you know, fits

1342
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:54,120
that that that pattern of it's 
on the edge. 

1343
01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:56,000
It's something where all came 
probably felt that they could 

1344
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:57,160
add value. 
And I'm guessing at that. 

1345
01:01:57,160 --> 01:01:59,800
I don't know those guys, but 
yeah, probably felt they could 

1346
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:03,000
add value. 
So does the equation evolve from

1347
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:06,560
here? 
The fact that it looks to have a

1348
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:12,120
milling solution which reduces 
CapEx of developing it has 

1349
01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:14,440
changed the share price. 
But does that change the way 

1350
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:16,240
that you look at it as a 
potential acquirer? 

1351
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:17,520
I don't know. 
It probably makes a few things 

1352
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:19,640
easier. 
So I, I think it's probably too 

1353
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:22,160
early to, to conclude which way 
they might go. 

1354
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:25,240
And I don't think there's any 
evidence to say whether they're 

1355
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:27,840
coming or going at the moment. 
So, you know, we can only 

1356
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:30,880
speculate and I love it when 
people speculate because Ted's 

1357
01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:32,880
people pay a lot more for 
something that they don't 

1358
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:35,960
understand than what they do. 
So long may that go on. 

1359
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:43,160
Rocks you and me yeah had a 
pretty pretty hefty raise 

1360
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:47,000
recently and Hawks points been 
really patient and and and 

1361
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:49,840
continue to to put capital into 
it sort of you know their 

1362
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:52,240
patients certainly paid off with
or abandoned recent history. 

1363
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:54,040
Will it? 
Will it repeat with rocks? 

1364
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:58,600
And Capricorn, they, yeah, from,
from sitting and sitting and 

1365
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:00,040
sitting. 
They, they've done well with 

1366
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:02,200
some projects which have, which 
have flourished. 

1367
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:05,080
Look, I, I don't know. 
You've got to be careful. 

1368
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:09,360
Any investor looking into 
something, whether it's genius 

1369
01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:10,920
or luck, it wears off sooner or 
later. 

1370
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:12,440
So you got to be careful 
following people into 

1371
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:14,840
situations. 
And I think in the the case of 

1372
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:18,240
rocks, they do have an 
established resource base. 

1373
01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:20,240
There's a hell of a lot of money
been put into drilling there. 

1374
01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:22,920
It is high grade, you know, just
compared to anything, it's 

1375
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:25,720
highest grade. 
You guys did a fantastic session

1376
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:27,800
with Rob. 
I think you called him 

1377
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:30,320
Refractory Rob at the time. 
It's extractory, Rob. 

1378
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:32,880
Extractory, Rob. 
In addition to that, we did a 

1379
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:35,240
met episode with Nathan Stewart.
He's now joined the board too. 

1380
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:37,960
Yeah. 
Well, I mean, rocks has kind of 

1381
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:40,240
changed its tempo recently had 
it, hasn't it? 

1382
01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:44,160
And I think sometimes it might 
not be that a management team is

1383
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:47,240
doing the wrong thing. 
It's just that they do they 

1384
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:49,760
March along the strategy pathway
that they've agreed and 

1385
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:52,800
sometimes that just doesn't 
float the boat of the market. 

1386
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:55,800
And you know, so I think it's 
possible to say that with Rocks,

1387
01:03:56,240 --> 01:03:58,520
the market was just not in the 
groove of that. 

1388
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:02,240
And by changing the management 
and in doing so changing the 

1389
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:05,200
pathway and they've more or less
said, right, let's raise money, 

1390
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:07,240
let's start dewatering this 
thing and we'll go for it. 

1391
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:10,600
I think that probably portrays a
sense of confidence to say we 

1392
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:13,640
think this is going to work. 
Follow us, you know, and and 

1393
01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:15,640
you'll you'll find out one way 
or the other right now. 

1394
01:04:16,080 --> 01:04:18,160
Gold price obviously turned it 
it was. 

1395
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:20,720
I think that's a lot of. 
Coincided with the time as well 

1396
01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:25,160
where all juniors started going.
Well, it hasn't been all, but I 

1397
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:27,800
think the point is that if you 
are putting yourself in a 

1398
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:31,600
position to show, you know, 
we've got this, the shape works 

1399
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:35,080
for us, we think we're going to 
make it work, then it yet the 

1400
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:37,160
market is more likely to follow.
So I think that's how they've 

1401
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:41,560
hitched themselves. 
Yeah, and the incentive package 

1402
01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:45,120
that just got announced for the 
MD is heavily focused around 

1403
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:47,840
pouring concrete and building 
something Yep as well. 

1404
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:49,400
Hopefully they pour gold as 
well. 

1405
01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:57,120
Yeah, magnetic. 
So lady, lady Julie, they've had

1406
01:04:57,120 --> 01:04:59,760
AI think it's lane four or 
something like that. 

1407
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:01,800
Is a is, you know, a new 
discovery. 

1408
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:08,520
Yeah, interesting, interesting 
lack of of reserve to to date, 

1409
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:12,160
but you know, not, no, no lack 
of kind of revelations of we've 

1410
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:13,480
got a data room open. 
Yeah. 

1411
01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:18,080
What do you make of the deposit?
Well, aggregate numbers all 

1412
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:22,360
appear quite interesting. 
You know, every so often a 

1413
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:25,960
project comes along and you sort
of think, wow, tons of great 

1414
01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:29,360
grades, great. 
Those numbers on costs look like

1415
01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:30,720
they're a bit lower than I would
have thought. 

1416
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:33,680
You know, I haven't gone through
their estimate in a great deal 

1417
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:35,880
of detail. 
Whenever, you know, sometimes 

1418
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:39,160
you look at a project at a point
and Northern Star was a great 

1419
01:05:39,160 --> 01:05:40,800
example of this going back many 
years now. 

1420
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:42,960
You look at it at any point in 
time, particularly when they're 

1421
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:44,960
raising money and you think, 
shit, you've really got to 

1422
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:48,520
perform to to match this price. 
If I just go by my estimates, 

1423
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:51,920
and it's not that you demand 
perfection, but you've you've 

1424
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:55,200
got to perform quite well. 
And Northern Star did so, you 

1425
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:57,920
know, over the raisins that they
did in the way they executed. 

1426
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:00,920
And I think probably magnetic is
one of the ones that every time 

1427
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:02,960
I've looked at it, when there's 
been an opportunity come along, 

1428
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:07,080
I've thought there's other 
opportunities which which I can 

1429
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:10,040
probably find a larger position 
for the same money. 

1430
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:12,560
And for that reason, I see value
elsewhere. 

1431
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:16,720
Now having said that, what I'm 
missing clearly is that at a 

1432
01:06:16,720 --> 01:06:18,920
larger market cap, you can raise
more money, which means that you

1433
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:21,560
can progress faster. 
So, you know, that's where 

1434
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:25,400
they've been successful. 
So my lens doesn't quite work on

1435
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:27,480
that one. 
I'm looking for the deeper value

1436
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:31,120
and, and the deeper value takes 
delivery risk out of it to some 

1437
01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:34,320
extent. 
But to, to, to adequately remove

1438
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:36,640
delivery risk, you also need to 
remove funding risk. 

1439
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:39,480
And they've removed funding risk
better than many of the ones 

1440
01:06:39,480 --> 01:06:41,720
that I've looked at. 
So I suppose, you know, there's 

1441
01:06:41,720 --> 01:06:44,200
a collection of comments there. 
But one thing that I've sort of 

1442
01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:47,560
lacked is just an understanding 
of the detail. 

1443
01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:51,720
I mean, if I take a Saturn 
presentation for example, you, 

1444
01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:55,440
you look at that and any gold E,
any gold BD team of a major in 

1445
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:57,640
the world is going to go, OK, we
understand this one quite 

1446
01:06:57,640 --> 01:06:59,400
thoroughly. 
We know where to stop next time 

1447
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:01,560
we're in Perth. 
Other companies, prezzo's, you 

1448
01:07:01,560 --> 01:07:04,040
look at them and you just think,
still don't know what it means. 

1449
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:07,280
And some of them have big 
numbers, but which appeal 

1450
01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:08,800
probably more to a retail 
audience. 

1451
01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:11,760
So Magnetic's one of those ones 
that I'd probably need to go and

1452
01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:14,400
sit with them and go through the
sections to feel like I 

1453
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:17,280
understand it myself. 
And when business has been quite

1454
01:07:17,280 --> 01:07:19,200
busy, I just haven't had the 
opportunity to do that. 

1455
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:22,080
So I'm afraid I can't really 
offer the sophisticated view on 

1456
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:24,840
that one. 
What about assets that have been

1457
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:29,400
purchased off the mid caps that 
have come to the end of their 

1458
01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:32,080
mid cap life and that are sort 
of getting rejuvenated? 

1459
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:35,800
Well, God, obviously Gorilla 
Gold's like a self fulfilling 

1460
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:39,040
prophecy at the moment that just
keeps going up for after they 

1461
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:42,520
got Vivian. 
But Lewin Metals purchasing the 

1462
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:46,000
martyr assets from Remelia so 
that they're being a bit 

1463
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:47,920
quieter. 
It looked like there wasn't much

1464
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:49,840
happening until the deal 
actually went through. 

1465
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:54,280
It's gone through these projects
that are on, you know, on mining

1466
01:07:54,280 --> 01:07:58,280
leases, permitted mining leases 
that have a bit of exploration 

1467
01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:02,600
potential to find some 
extensions or take some take 

1468
01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:05,440
some crumbs where which might 
not have been at the, you know, 

1469
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:08,800
appetite of the Remelius. 
That's what do you think of that

1470
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:11,120
one? 
Well, I mean those things 

1471
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:15,520
they're always interesting 
because you know, any midcap 

1472
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:18,880
which is working a set of 
assets, if it starts to slip in 

1473
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:21,279
terms of scale and what's, 
what's the sensible scale to 

1474
01:08:21,279 --> 01:08:23,720
operate those, I don't know. 
It's probably smaller than the 

1475
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:26,600
Remelius threshold. 
So at that point there's 

1476
01:08:26,600 --> 01:08:29,120
probably an effort where they 
go, well, we either drill and 

1477
01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:32,319
find enough to go on or we go, 
well, we'll leave a little but a

1478
01:08:32,319 --> 01:08:33,960
little bit of meat on the bone 
for somebody else. 

1479
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:37,600
So I think you could probably 
you know, you can look at those 

1480
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:40,240
assets and say, is there a way 
to make a success of those? 

1481
01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:44,319
And just because they've been 
sold by a Remelius, I think can 

1482
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:49,720
can often provide a an overview 
which isn't quite correct really

1483
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:51,160
they. 
Sold some valuable assets in the

1484
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:53,319
past. 
No, they they sold Kathleen 

1485
01:08:53,319 --> 01:08:55,840
Valley, the lion town for 400K 
or whatever. 

1486
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:56,760
Yeah. 
Is that right? 

1487
01:08:56,760 --> 01:08:58,680
Yeah. 
There you go. 

1488
01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:01,160
I I had AI had a long 
discussion. 

1489
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:05,439
Well, I, my first job as a 
geologist was a proper geologist

1490
01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:07,880
was working at Mount Keith, 
which is a nickel mine, which is

1491
01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:12,399
developed by Western Mining. 
And every so often on weekends, 

1492
01:09:12,600 --> 01:09:15,359
you know, we'd grab a couple of 
four wheel drives and find a 

1493
01:09:15,359 --> 01:09:16,960
picnic spot in the Bush or 
something like that. 

1494
01:09:18,399 --> 01:09:20,000
Kathleen Valley was one of the 
places. 

1495
01:09:20,040 --> 01:09:22,680
There's an old shearer's Hut 
near there, which was a not a 

1496
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:24,279
bad place. 
There was a nice stone fireplace

1497
01:09:24,279 --> 01:09:25,560
in there. 
So in any way that you could go 

1498
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:28,560
in and have a fire and have a 
couple of beers and you just get

1499
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:30,120
your crib out of the out of the 
mess. 

1500
01:09:30,760 --> 01:09:32,359
So we would have driven over 
that Pigma type. 

1501
01:09:32,359 --> 01:09:35,080
This is cars full of geologists,
you know, and there's quite a 

1502
01:09:35,080 --> 01:09:37,960
few people I think have kicked 
themselves for that opportunity.

1503
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:41,359
You know, buying it at that 
point gave you the opportunity 

1504
01:09:41,359 --> 01:09:43,760
to run with it. 
That's been an interesting 

1505
01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:45,920
operation, hasn't it? 
I mean, you guys have done a lot

1506
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:49,359
of diagnosis of that. 
I got a mate who is a fantastic 

1507
01:09:49,359 --> 01:09:52,399
project guy. 
Like he, he, he, he devours 

1508
01:09:52,399 --> 01:09:53,760
everything that companies put 
out. 

1509
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:57,960
And we talked about, I reckon we
talked about that asset over 

1510
01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:00,280
dinner once and we were, you 
know, we were getting quite 

1511
01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:03,000
feisty about it. 
And he was like, I can't believe

1512
01:10:03,080 --> 01:10:04,720
that they sold it for that. 
I should have bought it. 

1513
01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:08,400
And I said to him, well hang on 
mate, after the conversation 

1514
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:12,480
we've just had, would we, if you
and I had bought it, we've just 

1515
01:10:12,480 --> 01:10:15,720
disagreed on, you know, 
orientations and how easy it's 

1516
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:18,080
going to be and how many jumbos 
you're going to need and how you

1517
01:10:18,080 --> 01:10:20,120
process it and all the oil 
qualities. 

1518
01:10:20,120 --> 01:10:22,640
And this is always some stuff we
know now we would have fallen 

1519
01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:24,360
over at the first hurdle. 
We probably would have sold it 

1520
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:25,680
to someone else after we'd 
bought it. 

1521
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:28,160
So, you know, you you need to 
buy it with the vision. 

1522
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:31,120
And Remilius is a gold company. 
They're not a, they're not a 

1523
01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:33,600
lithium company and. 
It was, there weren't even drill

1524
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:34,880
holes into that Pegmerton at 
that point. 

1525
01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:37,760
It was just Rockship samples. 
And yeah, so I mean, it was 

1526
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:39,480
like. 
Lithium wasn't really a thing. 

1527
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:41,920
Yeah, yeah, it didn't. 
It didn't hurdle out of the 

1528
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:43,480
blocks either. 
So yeah, yeah. 

1529
01:10:43,720 --> 01:10:47,360
So no, I mean things like things
like Marta, I haven't looked at.

1530
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:50,160
I think the, the, the 
exploration prospectivity of 

1531
01:10:50,160 --> 01:10:52,880
those things is interesting. 
A look at a lot of them which 

1532
01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:57,440
are here's an asset which comes 
out of a a largish company plus 

1533
01:10:57,440 --> 01:10:59,400
or minus a mil. 
That's often problematic because

1534
01:10:59,400 --> 01:11:02,280
you got, you got to pay for the 
value of the processing facility

1535
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:04,680
which might come with it. 
Don't think it did in that case,

1536
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:07,400
but there's another one I looked
at recently which did. 

1537
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:10,800
So you're paying, I don't know, 
AV of 20 ish to have some sort 

1538
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:14,080
of process capacity there. 
But if it comes with no or where

1539
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:15,720
you got to go and explore, it's 
worthless. 

1540
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:17,760
You know, you have the mill, but
you got to keep it in good 

1541
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:20,080
working order. 
So you know, this complexity 

1542
01:11:20,080 --> 01:11:22,600
that comes with it, this huge 
option value, anything you find 

1543
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:24,800
you might be able to act on, but
there's also a threshold 

1544
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:28,240
consideration. 
So just because it's been done 

1545
01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:30,600
by someone bigger doesn't 
sterilize it. 

1546
01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:33,720
But at the same time, that 
option of being on a mining 

1547
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:37,800
lease and everything else can 
sometimes be a poison chalice in

1548
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:40,400
that, you know, you, you might 
have higher expenditures. 

1549
01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:44,400
So the exploration picture needs
to hurry and hurried exploration

1550
01:11:44,400 --> 01:11:46,920
is always the hardest. 
It's you need time to sit back 

1551
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:49,120
and think about it and consider 
what you're doing so that you 

1552
01:11:49,120 --> 01:11:51,200
don't you don't drill in the 
wrong place just because you're 

1553
01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:55,040
hurrying. 
What a bit juniors that are on 

1554
01:11:55,040 --> 01:11:59,160
their way to production there or
pre development at the moment 

1555
01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:02,760
there's a few of them. 
Is there any that stand out that

1556
01:12:03,680 --> 01:12:06,960
your flag is a bit of a risk of 
not executing? 

1557
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:09,960
Well. 
Only given you the heebie 

1558
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:11,800
jeebies. 
There's. 

1559
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:15,360
Obviously ones you don't I'll. 
Because I yeah, yeah. 

1560
01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:16,560
Because that's why we don't hold
them. 

1561
01:12:17,440 --> 01:12:21,000
No, there's, there's plenty that
we haven't invested in that I 

1562
01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:23,200
wouldn't, I wouldn't say we've 
kind of come up with a negative 

1563
01:12:23,200 --> 01:12:25,000
value on it, a negative 
impression. 

1564
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:27,960
It might be that we've, we've 
had our hands full with 

1565
01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:29,800
something else. 
So something came in last week 

1566
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:31,880
and I was thinking, geez, I'd 
love to have a better look at 

1567
01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:34,000
that. 
But I'm just finishing my paper 

1568
01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:36,840
on Saturn for the board. 
And you know, I know that if I 

1569
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:38,720
put two things in front of my 
board, they're just going to 

1570
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:41,560
say, mate, one at a time now 
we'll do none. 

1571
01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:43,960
So we've got to manage that 
carefully. 

1572
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:46,360
And that's often the reason why 
we might look something over is 

1573
01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:50,120
just to remain focused. 
But I'd say one of the biggest 

1574
01:12:50,120 --> 01:12:52,080
factors, and this is a 
roundabout way of answering your

1575
01:12:52,080 --> 01:12:55,000
question, one of the biggest 
risks that many investors who 

1576
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:58,960
are peripheral to the gold space
would perceive in gold at the 

1577
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:02,200
moment is that there's been a 
long history of, of failed 

1578
01:13:02,200 --> 01:13:04,840
projects. 
And it's not that they developed

1579
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:07,480
something which was absolutely 
shit and wouldn't work. 

1580
01:13:07,880 --> 01:13:10,520
It's that the financing 
decisions that they made, the 

1581
01:13:10,520 --> 01:13:13,360
hedging decisions that they 
made, the, the production 

1582
01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:17,520
forecast decisions that they 
made have it some of it, the 

1583
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:21,200
mining of it at some stage have 
brought them unstuck. 

1584
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:25,040
So, you know, was was Caledus a 
story which should never have 

1585
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:26,680
been mine? 
Well, I understand that that's 

1586
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:29,200
producing quite a lot of money 
now that the balance sheet 

1587
01:13:29,200 --> 01:13:32,320
issues have been extinguished 
via an administration process. 

1588
01:13:33,320 --> 01:13:36,320
Bellevue has been a very 
successful story in the market 

1589
01:13:36,320 --> 01:13:40,480
from whatever it was when it 
bought that asset to its peak 

1590
01:13:40,480 --> 01:13:42,760
price. 
Is it going to be a success from

1591
01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:45,680
its peak price to wherever it is
now and whatever happens next? 

1592
01:13:45,680 --> 01:13:49,800
Well, the problem is that's 
another part of the promise 

1593
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:52,240
making to the market which has 
been broken and I think 

1594
01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:55,680
indelibly marks the sector 
Western Australian gold project 

1595
01:13:55,680 --> 01:13:58,720
developments, you know, is there
a tainted promise that that 

1596
01:13:58,720 --> 01:14:03,040
comes with all of them? 
So I think the more you squeeze 

1597
01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:05,920
your economics, there's a lot of
projects that I look at where 

1598
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:08,400
they're trying to be 80 to 
100,000 oz per annum and really 

1599
01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:09,960
what they need to be is 50 to 
60. 

1600
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:13,280
But there's this feeling that if
you're not producing at a 

1601
01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:15,800
certain rate that institutions 
won't look at you. 

1602
01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:17,840
I think that's, I think that's 
flawed. 

1603
01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:20,680
You look at what happened with, 
I mean the history of Vault, 

1604
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:24,720
right? 
Vault was essentially brought 

1605
01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:28,480
about by bringing two companies 
together, Doray and Silver Lake.

1606
01:14:28,480 --> 01:14:30,000
They were both small asset 
companies. 

1607
01:14:30,360 --> 01:14:32,600
As soon as they did, they found 
themselves above the threshold 

1608
01:14:32,600 --> 01:14:34,680
of being able to be bought by 
institutions because they're in 

1609
01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:38,080
an index game that beautifully 
doubled their price and they've 

1610
01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:40,240
dealt through M&A from there as 
well. 

1611
01:14:40,240 --> 01:14:42,320
So I think small assets can 
work. 

1612
01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:44,760
It's more about the 
commercialization process and 

1613
01:14:44,760 --> 01:14:47,440
how you then go on from there. 
So it's. 

1614
01:14:48,160 --> 01:14:51,080
One of those things, Maddie's, 
you know, a reflection I have is

1615
01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:53,240
like, you know, nobody has a 
natural rate it should be mined 

1616
01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:54,400
at. 
Yeah. 

1617
01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:56,120
Yeah. 
Well, as your guiding post, 

1618
01:14:56,120 --> 01:14:59,520
rather than the broker telling 
you you need a, you need 100,000

1619
01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:01,760
oz scenario for me to go and 
raise the money for you. 

1620
01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:04,440
Yeah. 
And you can't easily just get 

1621
01:15:04,440 --> 01:15:08,240
20% above it, but you can very 
easily get 20 plus percent below

1622
01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:10,520
it by not doing it right. 
Yeah. 

1623
01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:13,400
And the problem is that so many 
people in the market who might 

1624
01:15:13,400 --> 01:15:17,320
be tempted to buy the shares are
wowed by the output that you 

1625
01:15:17,320 --> 01:15:19,400
think you can generate from it 
and the numbers that you can put

1626
01:15:19,400 --> 01:15:21,760
on a piece of paper and don't 
understand the difference 

1627
01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:24,600
between that and what is 
probably a more natural right. 

1628
01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:29,000
So look, I can't think of any 
which are howlers and there 

1629
01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:31,200
might be a bit of personal 
danger in it for me if even if I

1630
01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:35,600
could think of a great example. 
But maybe maybe I should say the

1631
01:15:35,600 --> 01:15:38,440
most attractive things that I 
see in pre development gold 

1632
01:15:38,440 --> 01:15:43,720
juniors at the moment are you've
got a reasonable size inventory 

1633
01:15:43,720 --> 01:15:46,280
to sponsor growth. 
So you know, there's a, there's 

1634
01:15:46,280 --> 01:15:49,160
a prize, which if you make those
answers more valuable, if 

1635
01:15:49,160 --> 01:15:50,960
there's a lot of them, then 
you've got a great leverage 

1636
01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:52,680
effect. 
You've got a way into 

1637
01:15:52,680 --> 01:15:57,480
production, which might not be 
the huge CapEx route as well as 

1638
01:15:57,720 --> 01:16:00,600
you know, if you if you grow 
your market value that that big 

1639
01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:02,200
CapEx route is available to you 
as well. 

1640
01:16:02,200 --> 01:16:05,400
So it being in a situation where
permit pathways and stuff aren't

1641
01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:07,480
a blockage. 
So if you're on some sort of a 

1642
01:16:07,480 --> 01:16:10,840
mining lease, great start. 
And if you can, if you can come 

1643
01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:14,080
to the market and say we've 
found a way to be in business 

1644
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:16,200
without having to raise that 
full amount, that's a great 

1645
01:16:16,200 --> 01:16:19,240
surprise for the market. 
But being in a part of the world

1646
01:16:19,240 --> 01:16:22,400
where some sort of MNA 
speculation can be helpful. 

1647
01:16:22,400 --> 01:16:24,640
I'm not saying want to buy in 
things that have that 

1648
01:16:24,640 --> 01:16:26,280
speculation. 
It's just that if there is 

1649
01:16:26,280 --> 01:16:29,680
another mill that needs that 
ore, then there's that tension 

1650
01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:33,080
which exists and no one can deny
it might not come true, but it 

1651
01:16:33,080 --> 01:16:34,320
helps a lot more people look at 
it. 

1652
01:16:34,320 --> 01:16:36,840
And the more people look at it, 
probably more people are going 

1653
01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:38,480
to convert into buyers. 
So it's good for the price. 

1654
01:16:38,720 --> 01:16:41,800
I've got a few more companies 
that maybe tick at least a 

1655
01:16:41,800 --> 01:16:46,360
couple of those boxes. 
Vault Allejo say Ding Ding Ding.

1656
01:16:46,520 --> 01:16:47,720
Yeah. 
And Remelius for her. 

1657
01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:53,440
And Remelius. 
So Bart and Gold they're they 

1658
01:16:53,480 --> 01:16:56,320
put in a study last year and it 
was like 1 to one kind of MPV to

1659
01:16:56,320 --> 01:16:58,040
CapEx ratio of a gold sword 
since then. 

1660
01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:01,440
So there's, you know, real kind 
of talk, talk in the, in, in the

1661
01:17:01,440 --> 01:17:03,400
we. 
Haven't had a talk for a while, 

1662
01:17:03,400 --> 01:17:05,560
have we? 
No, bring it back, but I don't 

1663
01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:07,040
think might talk great again. 
Exactly. 

1664
01:17:07,400 --> 01:17:10,640
I don't think the equities kind 
of really propelled yet, but 

1665
01:17:11,400 --> 01:17:14,520
there is a big endowment there 
SA, what do you think? 

1666
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:19,000
Well, they have 2 interesting 
deposits. 

1667
01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:21,840
One's not so big, but it's 
reasonably close to their 

1668
01:17:21,840 --> 01:17:25,120
process facility. 
So if and I always get them 

1669
01:17:25,120 --> 01:17:27,600
mixed up because they are so 
close in namesake. 

1670
01:17:27,800 --> 01:17:30,640
And Takula. 
Takula is within tracking 

1671
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:33,440
distance of the old Challenger 
plant which Dominion built. 

1672
01:17:33,840 --> 01:17:36,680
So, you know, if you find any 
answers there, which are, which 

1673
01:17:36,680 --> 01:17:39,640
are economic, then you've got a 
way to commercialize them. 

1674
01:17:39,640 --> 01:17:42,280
So they might be off to be able 
to generate cash flow. 

1675
01:17:42,360 --> 01:17:44,320
That I've always found 
interesting about Barton is that

1676
01:17:44,320 --> 01:17:46,880
that's a part of their story 
which you know, could come to 

1677
01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:48,520
fruition very quickly. 
There's not a hell of a lot of 

1678
01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:53,640
permitting etcetera required. 
And then Tan Killia, which is 

1679
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:57,520
the big one. 
In fact, I, I did work 

1680
01:17:57,520 --> 01:18:02,520
experience, I think as a year 11
student in 1995 in the offices 

1681
01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:04,720
of JB Weir, which was when my 
father was working at the time. 

1682
01:18:04,840 --> 01:18:07,720
And the week I was only there 
for a week, but the week I was 

1683
01:18:07,720 --> 01:18:12,600
there, a company called Helix 
its first hole into Tonkilla and

1684
01:18:12,600 --> 01:18:14,600
discovered it. 
So I've always, I've always felt

1685
01:18:14,600 --> 01:18:16,760
like I had a personal connection
to that deposit just because I 

1686
01:18:16,760 --> 01:18:18,120
remember the day it was 
discovered. 

1687
01:18:18,120 --> 01:18:20,680
And when I'm talking about it, 
my girlfriend thought I was a 

1688
01:18:20,680 --> 01:18:25,920
Dick head because no one talked 
about that at our school anyway.

1689
01:18:26,480 --> 01:18:27,920
So I mean, big amount of 
answers. 

1690
01:18:28,120 --> 01:18:29,560
It's sat in the ground for a 
long time. 

1691
01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:33,360
And you know, it's one of those 
assets which will really benefit

1692
01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:35,480
from a gold price running 
because all of a sudden the 

1693
01:18:35,480 --> 01:18:38,560
CapEx that you need to to pre 
strip is more available. 

1694
01:18:38,560 --> 01:18:41,720
But I, I think, you know, 
combining those gold assets in 

1695
01:18:41,720 --> 01:18:44,640
the same company has been very 
wise because one could very well

1696
01:18:44,640 --> 01:18:47,280
lead to the other, maybe not in 
terms of a process solution, but

1697
01:18:47,280 --> 01:18:50,560
in terms of being able to stay 
around long enough, generate 

1698
01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:53,400
some cash flow that might help, 
but it also builds a bigger rump

1699
01:18:53,400 --> 01:18:56,200
of market cap in order to fund 
yourself. 

1700
01:18:56,240 --> 01:18:59,120
So I think, you know, if that 
was my strategy for them and I, 

1701
01:18:59,480 --> 01:19:00,680
I don't think they're too far 
off that. 

1702
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:03,600
Although, you know, Alex is a 
clever guy who thinks about 

1703
01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:05,480
economics in a different way 
than most other people that I 

1704
01:19:05,480 --> 01:19:08,560
know than the gold market. 
So he seems to have avenues to 

1705
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:11,280
connections which might be 
useful for financing, which 

1706
01:19:11,680 --> 01:19:12,880
might might be different as 
well. 

1707
01:19:13,240 --> 01:19:17,600
Yeah. 
Golden Horse Minerals recent, 

1708
01:19:17,600 --> 01:19:21,080
recent IPO, but they're, they 
were like a ATSX company, but 

1709
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:22,640
they're in the, we're talking 
about the Southern Cross kind of

1710
01:19:22,640 --> 01:19:25,560
gold field. 
Now there is a mill nearby. 

1711
01:19:26,360 --> 01:19:28,880
Do you think they've got a an 
endowment that warrants 

1712
01:19:28,880 --> 01:19:30,480
interest? 
Well, the thing I found 

1713
01:19:30,480 --> 01:19:33,520
interesting about that is Nick 
Anderson used to be the CFO of 

1714
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:38,280
an unlisted company which had 
been involved in processing ore 

1715
01:19:38,360 --> 01:19:41,640
at that mill. 
So struck me, yeah, struck me 

1716
01:19:41,640 --> 01:19:44,120
that he and there was a 
collection of other companies 

1717
01:19:44,120 --> 01:19:47,600
sort of around that. 
So you know, the that consortium

1718
01:19:47,600 --> 01:19:50,000
wasn't particularly successful 
in executing on its business 

1719
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:52,920
plans, but Nick knew the area 
quite well. 

1720
01:19:52,920 --> 01:19:56,320
So that struck me as interesting
that he was agglomerating these 

1721
01:19:56,320 --> 01:19:59,240
assets. 
They look as if they haven't 

1722
01:19:59,240 --> 01:20:00,560
been particularly deeply 
drilled. 

1723
01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:03,600
And you know, when you list a 
company you want your first few 

1724
01:20:03,600 --> 01:20:05,960
holes to be a success. 
So I'd say they've had a good 

1725
01:20:05,960 --> 01:20:07,360
think about where's the best 
place to put them. 

1726
01:20:07,360 --> 01:20:09,000
But I think. 
I think they've pulled out some 

1727
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:11,560
pretty reasonable thicknesses 
and grades, so it's on my list 

1728
01:20:11,560 --> 01:20:15,560
of things to keep an eye on. 
But at the moment, you know, 

1729
01:20:15,560 --> 01:20:19,000
you're speculating on Oz 
inventory accumulation. 

1730
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:22,360
If if I'm going to buy 10 things
across the market, the 

1731
01:20:22,360 --> 01:20:24,600
speculative ones where I don't 
know what they're going to find,

1732
01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:27,520
I need to see real cheap. 
And the ones which I want to get

1733
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:30,360
into, which have answers, I want
to be buying those answers cheap

1734
01:20:30,360 --> 01:20:31,720
as well. 
And then he sort of sits in an 

1735
01:20:31,720 --> 01:20:34,200
unusual place in between because
he's not dead cheap, he's just 

1736
01:20:34,200 --> 01:20:37,320
listed. 
But at the end of the day, he 

1737
01:20:37,320 --> 01:20:39,720
needs to find them. 
So I'm, I'm sort of watching 

1738
01:20:39,720 --> 01:20:42,720
that for, for how that evolves. 
If the situation overtakes the 

1739
01:20:42,720 --> 01:20:44,960
value, then it might it might 
slip on the list. 

1740
01:20:45,080 --> 01:20:47,480
I think of a company where the 
the answers are certainly cheap 

1741
01:20:47,480 --> 01:20:51,240
because the company trades with 
a negative AV after you factor 

1742
01:20:51,240 --> 01:20:56,920
in the cash, but the liquidity 
is completely absent. 10 of my 

1743
01:20:56,920 --> 01:21:00,600
gold Oh. 
It's been so long since I've 

1744
01:21:00,600 --> 01:21:03,160
looked at that one. 
Yeah, It seems to have been a 

1745
01:21:03,160 --> 01:21:05,320
part of the world where it's 
just been exceptionally 

1746
01:21:05,320 --> 01:21:08,520
difficult for anyone to 
commercialize anything that's, 

1747
01:21:08,920 --> 01:21:11,000
you know, of an ordinary scale 
you need. 

1748
01:21:11,200 --> 01:21:13,560
I mean, Newmont has some 
excellent assets in that part of

1749
01:21:13,560 --> 01:21:15,880
the world so that it's a remote 
place. 

1750
01:21:15,880 --> 01:21:17,920
I think that adds a lot of 
expense and difficulty. 

1751
01:21:18,600 --> 01:21:22,720
Northern Star bought 10% more of
that JVI think last year for 

1752
01:21:22,720 --> 01:21:27,320
like 15,000,000 bucks and yet 
you know, so 10 of my gold, I 

1753
01:21:27,320 --> 01:21:31,160
still have 50% of it, $30 
million market cap and 30 odd 

1754
01:21:31,160 --> 01:21:33,960
million cash, yeah. 
Is Metals X still on the 

1755
01:21:33,960 --> 01:21:35,640
register for? 
Them oh they own a little bit, 

1756
01:21:35,640 --> 01:21:38,800
but most of it's with AIPAC who 
own I think it's over half I. 

1757
01:21:38,800 --> 01:21:45,240
Can remember there there was a 
year when metals X and Northern 

1758
01:21:45,240 --> 01:21:48,120
Star were maybe it wasn't an all
out bidding war, but you know, 

1759
01:21:48,120 --> 01:21:51,400
one of them had made a proposal 
and then metals X had made a 

1760
01:21:51,400 --> 01:21:54,680
proposal and northern star came 
over the top and seemed to win 

1761
01:21:54,680 --> 01:21:57,920
out. 
And I think Peter Cook got asked

1762
01:21:57,920 --> 01:21:59,600
about it, the diggers and 
dealers and I was sitting in the

1763
01:21:59,600 --> 01:22:03,160
audience and he said something 
like we'll just like sunshine be

1764
01:22:03,160 --> 01:22:06,840
the disinfectant on that one. 
So I don't know what he meant 

1765
01:22:06,840 --> 01:22:09,360
because you know, it's sort of 
all gone quiet. 

1766
01:22:09,360 --> 01:22:12,000
But I mean the thing I've always
found interesting about it was 

1767
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:15,720
you've got two big companies at 
that time and Peter Cook and and

1768
01:22:15,720 --> 01:22:17,680
Bill Beaman at the time. 
You know, they they understand 

1769
01:22:17,680 --> 01:22:19,520
gold projects. 
No mugs. 

1770
01:22:20,920 --> 01:22:24,320
Northern Star has done so many 
things in that time other than 

1771
01:22:24,320 --> 01:22:27,200
making Tanamar success. 
I can't help thinking that 

1772
01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:30,920
something has held that back. 
And I mean, Northern Star bought

1773
01:22:31,880 --> 01:22:34,800
bought into Platonic. 
They subsequently off sold that 

1774
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:37,160
and it's, it's taking 
consolidation of that field for 

1775
01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:40,640
that to be a success. 
Under Catalyst, you know, 

1776
01:22:40,640 --> 01:22:43,520
Northern Star grew from 
Paulsen's, which no longer fit 

1777
01:22:43,520 --> 01:22:47,440
their, their portfolio profile. 
So, you know, Tantami might not 

1778
01:22:47,440 --> 01:22:50,280
necessarily get the the capital 
allocation that it needs 

1779
01:22:50,280 --> 01:22:52,400
perhaps, but I can't help 
thinking that there's been 

1780
01:22:52,400 --> 01:22:54,520
another reason. 
I don't know what it is, but I 

1781
01:22:54,520 --> 01:22:58,120
think it sounds difficult just 
on that basis, and that's me. 

1782
01:22:58,520 --> 01:23:00,720
There's a huge tendency in 
financial services and brokers 

1783
01:23:00,720 --> 01:23:02,600
are the worst at this, that if 
you ask them a question and they

1784
01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:05,080
don't know the answer, the 
answer will be no or the answer 

1785
01:23:05,080 --> 01:23:06,720
will be it's shit, or it'll be I
haven't heard of it. 

1786
01:23:06,720 --> 01:23:09,560
I'm not bothered. 
So I could be falling into that 

1787
01:23:09,560 --> 01:23:11,840
bias tendency of saying, look, I
don't know enough about it so 

1788
01:23:11,840 --> 01:23:14,320
I'm not going to, I'm not going 
to go out and be too optimistic.

1789
01:23:14,640 --> 01:23:16,240
So I could be being quite unfair
there. 

1790
01:23:17,440 --> 01:23:21,240
Word I. 
Word I I I did say I wouldn't 

1791
01:23:21,240 --> 01:23:25,720
kiss and tell, didn't I? 
So one thing I think that's 

1792
01:23:26,160 --> 01:23:28,800
interesting about Warridar is 
they've drilled out a reasonable

1793
01:23:29,000 --> 01:23:30,960
gold inventory now and they're 
still going. 

1794
01:23:32,000 --> 01:23:34,280
It's a very long structure. 
I mean, they've got about, I 

1795
01:23:34,280 --> 01:23:38,240
think it's about 2526 kilometres
of one structure. 

1796
01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:40,640
There's a couple of places there
where that structure doesn't 

1797
01:23:40,640 --> 01:23:42,640
look particularly well 
understood and it's undercover. 

1798
01:23:43,080 --> 01:23:45,280
They've got a couple of shallow 
holes that say, hey, you know, 

1799
01:23:45,400 --> 01:23:47,160
you, you change your 
interpretation. 

1800
01:23:47,200 --> 01:23:48,280
You might have missed the mother
load. 

1801
01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:50,200
I don't know. 
One day we'll know. 

1802
01:23:50,200 --> 01:23:53,160
But there's there's gold dotted 
all up and down that. 

1803
01:23:54,200 --> 01:23:57,280
So it hasn't been closed off. 
The previous owners of it were 

1804
01:23:57,280 --> 01:24:01,200
fascinated with oxide ore. 
So there's been a lot of 

1805
01:24:01,520 --> 01:24:04,240
unfinished geological business. 
That's what attracts me is that 

1806
01:24:04,240 --> 01:24:05,520
it's wide open. 
Now. 

1807
01:24:05,520 --> 01:24:09,840
What is also interesting is that
they've they've found 

1808
01:24:09,840 --> 01:24:13,560
significant antimony, which is 
semi associated with the gold in

1809
01:24:13,560 --> 01:24:15,800
the fresh rock position. 
And at the moment antimony is a 

1810
01:24:15,800 --> 01:24:18,520
bit of a buzzword. 
I don't know if that's a good 

1811
01:24:18,520 --> 01:24:21,400
thing or a bad thing or just a 
mutual factor for the asset, but

1812
01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:24,440
I suppose I look at Waradar as 
being something that has a very 

1813
01:24:24,440 --> 01:24:26,600
reasonable. 
It's probably got the scale, 

1814
01:24:26,600 --> 01:24:29,800
it's definitely got starter 
scale gold asset. 

1815
01:24:29,800 --> 01:24:32,200
And then you've got this 
optionality from from the 

1816
01:24:32,200 --> 01:24:35,640
antimony that could give in a 
moment and you just I don't 

1817
01:24:35,640 --> 01:24:37,800
think anyone really understands 
how well that could work. 

1818
01:24:38,840 --> 01:24:40,680
It might not work at all. 
But you know, getting an option 

1819
01:24:40,680 --> 01:24:42,520
for nothing is always 
interesting. 

1820
01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:45,600
But of those answers, they've 
shown that some of the fresh 

1821
01:24:45,600 --> 01:24:47,680
rock answers are going to need 
flotation. 

1822
01:24:48,280 --> 01:24:50,480
So they're to some extent 
refractory. 

1823
01:24:50,600 --> 01:24:54,080
Now, if there was no rocks 
developing, you and me, you'd 

1824
01:24:54,080 --> 01:24:58,400
say, or that might be a bit 
tough if you float some answers 

1825
01:24:58,400 --> 01:25:01,200
into a concentrate there, it 
sounds like there could be a 

1826
01:25:01,200 --> 01:25:03,840
process pathway which exists in 
WA where you could take those 

1827
01:25:03,840 --> 01:25:06,200
the extra step. 
This golden Grove, which is just

1828
01:25:06,200 --> 01:25:08,600
up the road as well, which you 
know the base metals mining 

1829
01:25:08,600 --> 01:25:10,880
there won't last forever, so 
that there may be a flotation 

1830
01:25:10,880 --> 01:25:12,720
plant. 
There are some free milling 

1831
01:25:12,720 --> 01:25:15,280
answers there as well, and they 
will I think probably grow a 

1832
01:25:15,280 --> 01:25:18,000
free milling inventory so. 
Deflector as well. 

1833
01:25:18,400 --> 01:25:21,080
That's Yep, that's closer to 
Geraldton. 

1834
01:25:21,400 --> 01:25:24,080
There's been times when that was
pronounced deceptor, but yeah, 

1835
01:25:24,440 --> 01:25:28,160
it's got a, it's got a flotation
NCIL process facility there. 

1836
01:25:28,160 --> 01:25:30,880
And I mean you've got a question
that could come a time where 

1837
01:25:31,320 --> 01:25:33,920
that is subscale for Volt. 
So, you know, perhaps there's a 

1838
01:25:33,920 --> 01:25:35,440
consolidation in the area that 
makes sense. 

1839
01:25:35,440 --> 01:25:38,200
But waving my arms around there,
all I'm saying is that on that 

1840
01:25:38,200 --> 01:25:40,880
one I can see one or two 
different pathways where in many

1841
01:25:40,880 --> 01:25:43,320
companies you only have one and 
they have 1-2, maybe 3. 

1842
01:25:43,480 --> 01:25:46,360
So I think it's interesting, I 
think very highly of Amanda. 

1843
01:25:46,360 --> 01:25:49,120
She's a colleague of mine on 
another board in an unlisted 

1844
01:25:49,120 --> 01:25:50,880
company, which we didn't do any 
Ding dinging on. 

1845
01:25:50,880 --> 01:25:52,080
They don't have an inventory at 
all. 

1846
01:25:52,080 --> 01:25:54,080
That's just completely 
speculative exploration. 

1847
01:25:54,720 --> 01:25:57,280
But Amanda is a a deep thinker, 
a very hard worker. 

1848
01:25:57,280 --> 01:26:00,640
So I was excited to go for a 
look when the opportunity came 

1849
01:26:00,640 --> 01:26:02,720
up. 
And Kairos. 

1850
01:26:05,840 --> 01:26:09,280
In the Pilbara, yes, yes, well, 
they're an interesting 1. 

1851
01:26:09,360 --> 01:26:12,560
So I look at them the other day 
they did the rounds of Melbourne

1852
01:26:12,640 --> 01:26:16,520
and I kind of had them in my 
head as being something which 

1853
01:26:16,520 --> 01:26:18,600
was kind of in the slightly, 
it's a difficult basket. 

1854
01:26:19,200 --> 01:26:24,080
What I realized is that they 
have gold which is associated 

1855
01:26:24,080 --> 01:26:27,440
with arsenopyrite and sulfides. 
And when someone says that to a 

1856
01:26:27,440 --> 01:26:29,960
geologist, you think or 
refractory and that, I mean, 

1857
01:26:29,960 --> 01:26:32,320
you're going to be careful with 
the R word because it can 

1858
01:26:32,320 --> 01:26:35,480
stretch from refractory means 
that the gold is just, you know,

1859
01:26:35,520 --> 01:26:37,640
encapsulated in something. 
And you can break that very 

1860
01:26:37,640 --> 01:26:40,880
simply just by cracking it. 
You can break it by oxidizing it

1861
01:26:41,240 --> 01:26:43,200
in various ways. 
You can do that in this case, 

1862
01:26:43,640 --> 01:26:47,120
the test work that that's been 
done in previous years, if they 

1863
01:26:47,120 --> 01:26:50,120
grind it and it's not even super
fine, I mean, it's a fineish 

1864
01:26:50,120 --> 01:26:52,800
grind, but it's not ends of the 
earth and you're grinding, 

1865
01:26:52,800 --> 01:26:54,920
you're fine grinding sulfides 
rather than the whole rock. 

1866
01:26:55,160 --> 01:27:00,360
So that that that shows a very 
reasonable pure cyanide recovery

1867
01:27:00,440 --> 01:27:02,720
off the back of that. 
So it made me think this is 

1868
01:27:02,720 --> 01:27:04,600
worth looking at. 
The other thing which was 

1869
01:27:04,600 --> 01:27:08,120
interesting about them is that 
they sold some tenure to Pilbara

1870
01:27:08,760 --> 01:27:11,000
for 20 million bucks. 
I think 10 of that has been 

1871
01:27:11,000 --> 01:27:13,040
paid. 
So they're well funded for now. 

1872
01:27:13,040 --> 01:27:17,520
They've got about 22,000,000 
bucks of liquidity, 10 still to 

1873
01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:19,080
be delivered, but there's no 
reason to think it won't. 

1874
01:27:19,080 --> 01:27:22,240
So you know, if you if you have 
a reasonable size gold inventory

1875
01:27:22,240 --> 01:27:24,400
and they swap some tenements. 
So it looks like they can follow

1876
01:27:24,400 --> 01:27:27,440
their trend onto pilgrade ground
and who knows, that might grow 

1877
01:27:27,440 --> 01:27:29,320
to scale and they look like 
they're funded to do it. 

1878
01:27:29,320 --> 01:27:31,960
So it's an interesting one. 
It's on my list to look at, but 

1879
01:27:31,960 --> 01:27:34,280
I haven't come to a landing on 
it yet. 

1880
01:27:34,720 --> 01:27:37,560
And I don't customarily sort of 
say, hey, I'm looking at this 

1881
01:27:37,560 --> 01:27:38,560
one. 
I'm really excited. 

1882
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:41,640
But I look at a lot of things 
and you know, the excitement can

1883
01:27:41,640 --> 01:27:42,880
wear off pretty quickly on a 
few. 

1884
01:27:42,880 --> 01:27:46,080
But those were the points which 
really grabbed my attention with

1885
01:27:46,080 --> 01:27:48,120
them and I thought it was well 
worth spending a bit more time 

1886
01:27:48,120 --> 01:27:50,040
and. 
How are you? 

1887
01:27:50,040 --> 01:27:52,080
What's going to be your best 
performance stock this year, 

1888
01:27:52,080 --> 01:27:54,120
Hadley? 
And we're going to hold it 

1889
01:27:54,120 --> 01:27:55,280
against you at the end of the 
year. 

1890
01:27:55,720 --> 01:28:00,400
Well, last year it was Saturn 
and there's a there's a fund 

1891
01:28:00,400 --> 01:28:04,200
manager in Melbourne who he's a 
journalist. 

1892
01:28:04,280 --> 01:28:06,880
I don't know if he doesn't sound
like the kind of person I'd go 

1893
01:28:06,880 --> 01:28:10,040
to Christmas parties with, but 
they have a famous Christmas 

1894
01:28:10,040 --> 01:28:12,360
party and they have it after 
Christmas so that they make sure

1895
01:28:12,360 --> 01:28:14,160
that everybody goes. 
Maybe that's just his character.

1896
01:28:14,760 --> 01:28:17,120
He's famous, he's giving people 
cars and all this stuff, like 

1897
01:28:17,120 --> 01:28:19,960
for someone gives him a tip and 
if it goes really well for him, 

1898
01:28:20,040 --> 01:28:21,920
that's how he rewards them at 
his Christmas party. 

1899
01:28:22,240 --> 01:28:25,880
So I thought, well, when we have
our AGM, we invited Saturn 

1900
01:28:25,920 --> 01:28:28,880
Bright Star and Platonic, which 
is an unlisted company, to 

1901
01:28:28,880 --> 01:28:31,200
present at our AGM just to talk 
to our shareholders and say what

1902
01:28:31,200 --> 01:28:32,840
they're all about. 
And then we had a dinner 

1903
01:28:32,960 --> 01:28:36,040
afterwards for the those 
speakers and the board and a few

1904
01:28:36,040 --> 01:28:39,400
of the largest shareholders. 
So I was thinking I just need 

1905
01:28:39,400 --> 01:28:41,400
some sort of silly shit to talk 
about over dinner. 

1906
01:28:41,920 --> 01:28:45,480
And we had these these medals 
which were cast many years ago 

1907
01:28:45,480 --> 01:28:47,080
from some silver which we'd come
across. 

1908
01:28:47,440 --> 01:28:49,560
And they've got a, they've got a
lion image on it. 

1909
01:28:49,560 --> 01:28:52,000
So I was giving them each one as
a token to say thank you. 

1910
01:28:52,000 --> 01:28:54,760
But I wanted to stir one of the 
MD's up. 

1911
01:28:55,120 --> 01:29:00,720
So I am Ian Bambra from Saturn. 
Actually he and I have quite an 

1912
01:29:00,720 --> 01:29:03,560
interesting personal story that 
has crisscrossed. 

1913
01:29:03,800 --> 01:29:05,760
Ian and I were born in the same 
hospital in the north of 

1914
01:29:05,760 --> 01:29:07,520
England. 
I don't, I think there's only 

1915
01:29:07,520 --> 01:29:09,080
three geologists have ever come 
out of that. 

1916
01:29:09,080 --> 01:29:13,000
That's my dad, me and him. 
And he also likes Land Rovers. 

1917
01:29:13,000 --> 01:29:16,280
I like Land Rovers. 
So I made-up this crap and I, I 

1918
01:29:16,280 --> 01:29:18,920
don't know, I probably went on 
for about 5 minutes and I said 

1919
01:29:18,920 --> 01:29:22,560
all this other fund manager who 
buys people cars. 

1920
01:29:22,560 --> 01:29:25,880
So for the best return in our 
portfolio this year, I've bought

1921
01:29:25,880 --> 01:29:28,560
them a car and, and it's his 
favorite sort of car. 

1922
01:29:28,560 --> 01:29:32,480
And I had this little Hot Wheels
Matchbox Land Rover which I gave

1923
01:29:32,480 --> 01:29:35,560
him. 
And we we, Ian and I swaps swap 

1924
01:29:35,560 --> 01:29:39,800
photos where I put one of my toy
Matchbox Land Rovers on a rock 

1925
01:29:39,800 --> 01:29:42,000
and take a picture to show him 
where I've been. 

1926
01:29:43,040 --> 01:29:46,560
So, so Ian won a Land Rover that
was that was our best performing

1927
01:29:46,560 --> 01:29:49,440
stock last year. 
I hope that it's sat in this 

1928
01:29:49,440 --> 01:29:51,120
year. 
And I couldn't tell you what 

1929
01:29:51,120 --> 01:29:52,600
it's performance has been since 
that point. 

1930
01:29:53,360 --> 01:29:55,240
I think it's done quite well in 
this gold market. 

1931
01:29:55,240 --> 01:29:57,880
But satin I think has an awfully
long way to run on its value. 

1932
01:29:57,880 --> 01:30:01,760
But it's going to struggle to 
compete against Antipa and 

1933
01:30:01,760 --> 01:30:05,480
Medallion in terms of return to 
date in a very short period of 

1934
01:30:05,480 --> 01:30:07,320
time. 
And I mean, short returns can, 

1935
01:30:07,680 --> 01:30:10,280
you know, you can't extrapolate 
that trend too far, but both of 

1936
01:30:10,280 --> 01:30:11,400
those look like they could have 
stuck. 

1937
01:30:11,400 --> 01:30:14,720
So who knows, maybe Antipa won't
exist by the time we have our 

1938
01:30:14,720 --> 01:30:18,320
AGM in 2025 and Medallion, who 
knows. 

1939
01:30:18,320 --> 01:30:20,320
I mean, we were speculating 
about M&A for both of those. 

1940
01:30:20,320 --> 01:30:22,960
So I'd love to give them a Hot 
Wheels of their choice. 

1941
01:30:24,760 --> 01:30:27,280
And yeah, we'll be definitely be
inviting a few stories to come 

1942
01:30:27,280 --> 01:30:30,760
and talk at our AGM as well, 
just to spice it up and provide 

1943
01:30:30,760 --> 01:30:32,000
a different event for our 
shareholders. 

1944
01:30:32,440 --> 01:30:35,360
I mean, congratulations on, you 
know, really timing the the 

1945
01:30:35,400 --> 01:30:37,720
thematic really well. 
I shouldn't be surprised you did

1946
01:30:37,720 --> 01:30:40,320
invent the mining clock. 
So I can't let you go without 

1947
01:30:40,360 --> 01:30:42,760
asking you where we are on the 
the clock, right? 

1948
01:30:42,760 --> 01:30:47,280
Now I would I have to give full 
kudos for the creative concept 

1949
01:30:47,280 --> 01:30:51,040
of the line clock to my father 
Robin, who used it as an an 

1950
01:30:51,080 --> 01:30:53,000
analogy when he was working at 
JB Weir. 

1951
01:30:53,000 --> 01:30:55,680
So it probably dates back to pre
9. 

1952
01:30:56,440 --> 01:30:59,640
Let's say pre 97, it'd be maybe 
mid 90s. 

1953
01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:03,840
And I think he had observed that
in the period of time there, 

1954
01:31:03,840 --> 01:31:07,040
they'd done, you know, they'd 
all got involved at, at a part 

1955
01:31:07,040 --> 01:31:09,240
time in the market without doing
small raisings that are hard 

1956
01:31:09,240 --> 01:31:10,480
work. 
And then all of a sudden the 

1957
01:31:10,480 --> 01:31:12,800
metals prices came along and 
they're doing big raisings. 

1958
01:31:13,480 --> 01:31:17,240
And then they formed line many 
of that management team so that 

1959
01:31:17,240 --> 01:31:20,000
that concept is carried. 
And from that time, I would say 

1960
01:31:20,000 --> 01:31:22,520
that was probably fairly 
subjectively set at that point. 

1961
01:31:22,960 --> 01:31:26,000
Now we monitor it and and the 
underlying theory is that 

1962
01:31:26,000 --> 01:31:28,320
liquidity which is money coming 
into the market or going away is

1963
01:31:28,320 --> 01:31:31,200
what sets the time. 
The last time we published it, 

1964
01:31:31,360 --> 01:31:33,800
it was 4:00. 
Now the boom starts at six. 

1965
01:31:34,400 --> 01:31:38,840
And I think that we might look 
back at now and say we were at 

1966
01:31:38,840 --> 01:31:41,440
six. 
What we're going to do in our 

1967
01:31:41,440 --> 01:31:45,240
next quarterly, which will be 
published in May will be to set 

1968
01:31:45,240 --> 01:31:48,120
the clock at 5:00. 
And I think the reasoning around

1969
01:31:48,120 --> 01:31:50,080
that is liquidity has definitely
increased. 

1970
01:31:50,080 --> 01:31:53,200
But the signal which we're 
getting to 6 or going through 6 

1971
01:31:53,200 --> 01:31:55,640
is that we're starting to see 
things like IPOs starting to 

1972
01:31:55,640 --> 01:31:57,640
happen. 
And as much as things like 

1973
01:31:57,640 --> 01:32:01,000
greatly and gold are coming to 
Australia, shit big IPO, but 

1974
01:32:01,000 --> 01:32:04,360
that you know, that's a one off 
very unusual story. 

1975
01:32:04,360 --> 01:32:07,000
And the reason they want to come
here is to migrate their 

1976
01:32:07,000 --> 01:32:09,200
listing. 
So I think we need to see 

1977
01:32:09,200 --> 01:32:12,000
exploration IP OS coming to the 
market and I can see them 

1978
01:32:12,000 --> 01:32:13,640
developing. 
I want to see that stick. 

1979
01:32:13,640 --> 01:32:16,840
So I think, you know, we might 
look back at now and say boom's 

1980
01:32:16,840 --> 01:32:19,640
on good chance of that. 
And if we don't look back at 

1981
01:32:19,640 --> 01:32:22,120
now, then it could be some other
time in 2025. 

1982
01:32:22,120 --> 01:32:25,040
But I think that's where we are,
which is a great time to be 

1983
01:32:25,040 --> 01:32:27,920
investing. 
If you invest in pre development

1984
01:32:27,920 --> 01:32:29,640
things, you need to be able to 
follow your money. 

1985
01:32:29,720 --> 01:32:32,680
So if you miss those 
opportunities when they have a 

1986
01:32:32,680 --> 01:32:36,240
distressed raising, it affects 
your investing experience 

1987
01:32:36,240 --> 01:32:39,000
incredibly. 
So you know back to me not being

1988
01:32:39,000 --> 01:32:41,880
fully invested that's we will be
investing right through to 9 

1989
01:32:42,160 --> 01:32:43,640
until we start trying to 
harvest. 

1990
01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:47,720
Two, it's probably dependent on 
lithium because there's too many

1991
01:32:47,720 --> 01:32:52,040
lithium shells from the 2021 
IPOs that are getting used for 

1992
01:32:52,040 --> 01:32:53,840
gold. 
So unless lithium comes back, 

1993
01:32:53,840 --> 01:32:55,640
there's too many shells for IPOs
to happen. 

1994
01:32:55,640 --> 01:32:58,880
Actor ammo, Yeah. 
I noticed that Core came out 

1995
01:32:58,880 --> 01:33:02,160
with some announcements recently
of a massive gold trend in the 

1996
01:33:02,160 --> 01:33:04,160
NT site. 
You don't say you had a big 

1997
01:33:04,160 --> 01:33:06,360
lithium project and now on the 
exact same ground you got a big 

1998
01:33:06,360 --> 01:33:07,920
gold project you said nothing 
about before. 

1999
01:33:07,960 --> 01:33:08,760
Oh. 
They got both. 

2000
01:33:08,880 --> 01:33:11,280
Bloody great, they. 
Bought the crusher from Minrez. 

2001
01:33:12,320 --> 01:33:15,120
90 million bucks. 
Yeah, pretty interesting Got. 

2002
01:33:15,880 --> 01:33:17,960
To be careful what you pay 
sometimes, don't you? 

2003
01:33:17,960 --> 01:33:21,200
So that's. 
Not a bad break for you, it's 

2004
01:33:21,360 --> 01:33:24,960
all. 
Right, very good headers. 

2005
01:33:25,040 --> 01:33:27,440
Thanks very much mate. 
Thank you very much for having 

2006
01:33:27,440 --> 01:33:28,000
me. 
Thank you for the. 

2007
01:33:28,000 --> 01:33:30,440
For you, because if you're going
up, I'm going up. 

2008
01:33:31,840 --> 01:33:33,240
We'll kick up this. 
Crap my stocks. 

2009
01:33:33,280 --> 01:33:37,040
They're way too specular. 
Is that why you never Ding, 

2010
01:33:37,040 --> 01:33:39,680
Ding, Ding, Yeah. 
You'll be like oh you're a Dick 

2011
01:33:39,720 --> 01:33:41,880
head. 
Jeez, brother. 

2012
01:33:42,080 --> 01:33:43,800
Thank you so much. 
Thank you for having me, guys. 

2013
01:33:43,800 --> 01:33:45,560
It's been fantastic. 
Right. 

2014
01:33:45,640 --> 01:33:47,520
Oh, there you go Jay. 
So you missed that bloody 

2015
01:33:47,520 --> 01:33:48,880
episode. 
That was right up your. 

2016
01:33:48,880 --> 01:33:51,760
Alley, Oh I. 
Know I now it's I'm sort of 

2017
01:33:51,760 --> 01:33:54,440
doing a bit of a you I haven't 
quite I haven't watched it yet 

2018
01:33:54,440 --> 01:33:55,760
but I. 
Can't. 

2019
01:33:55,800 --> 01:33:58,360
Wait to it was I'm sure it was 
amazing. 

2020
01:33:58,360 --> 01:34:00,440
So they're probably a bit small 
cappy for you. 

2021
01:34:01,360 --> 01:34:03,000
Actually small. 
Cappy, I love it. 

2022
01:34:04,360 --> 01:34:06,920
Right, let's RIP through bloody 
everything on offer at the 

2023
01:34:06,920 --> 01:34:10,960
moment. 
We're JRX Conference Brisbane 

2024
01:34:10,960 --> 01:34:15,280
May 2020 Second, get your bloody
tickets exclusive discount by us

2025
01:34:15,840 --> 01:34:20,440
and I'm going now. 
I'm going, I'm going, I'm going 

2026
01:34:20,640 --> 01:34:23,840
full conference mode this year 
and that's after Oz IMEM 

2027
01:34:23,840 --> 01:34:28,280
underground operators next week.
And so you can still get tickets

2028
01:34:28,280 --> 01:34:31,480
for that with our exclusive card
in our thanks to all the 

2029
01:34:31,480 --> 01:34:34,480
partners Mineral Mining 
Services, Grounded TAB, Ground 

2030
01:34:34,480 --> 01:34:39,240
Sports, TRA Insurance, WA, Water
Balls, Quattro, KCA Sort 

2031
01:34:39,240 --> 01:34:43,600
Services, Black Diamond, Cross, 
Boundary Energy and K. 

2032
01:34:43,600 --> 01:34:45,840
Drill. 
ODRO. 

2033
01:34:46,120 --> 01:34:48,640
Money. 
Information contained in this 

2034
01:34:48,640 --> 01:34:51,400
episode of Money of Mine is of 
general nature only and does not

2035
01:34:51,400 --> 01:34:54,040
take into account the 
objectives, financial situation 

2036
01:34:54,080 --> 01:34:56,080
or needs of any particular 
person. 

2037
01:34:56,400 --> 01:34:59,440
Before making any investment 
decision, you should consult 

2038
01:34:59,440 --> 01:35:02,480
with your financial advisor and 
consider how appropriate the 

2039
01:35:02,480 --> 01:35:06,200
advice is to your objectives, 
financial situation and needs.