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Welcome to Judaism Demystified, 
a podcast for the perplexed. 

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Join us as we explore some of 
the most fascinating Jewish and 

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Torah related topics with our 
esteemed guests. 

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By tackling some of the biggest 
questions you likely won't find 

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addressed elsewhere, we aim to 
shed light on important issues 

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and inspire or return to the 
fundamentals. 

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Enjoy the show. 
Thank you Rabbi Eisen for 

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rejoining the Judaism 
Demystified podcast. 

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We're so honored to have you 
back everything you do and we, 

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we really just like we're sorry 
that we're constantly badging 

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you to come on, but there's so 
many requests to have you on 

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again. 
So thank you so much. 

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Blessing for me. 
So I'm very grateful to you for 

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the invitation. 
Thank you for your hospitality. 

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So we have a series of questions
and follow up questions, but I'm

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gonna just start with the first 
one which is Maimonides. 

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Theological system in the Guide 
for the Perplexed relies on a 

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medieval geocentric cosmology 
where Providence, revelation, 

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and miracles are mediated 
through the heavenly spheres and

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separate intellects. 
With modern science disproving 

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the geocentric model, a 
theological challenge arises. 

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A. 
Must the categories of 

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Providence, revelation, and 
miracles be abandoned because 

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the mechanism Maimonides 
positive no longer exists? 

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B. 
Alternatively, should a new 

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metaphysical system such as that
of Kabbalah be adopted to 

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preserve these categories 
despite the serious theological 

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problems Kabbalah introduces, 
namely its depiction of divine 

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multiplicity and metaphysical 
complexity, in contrast to 

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Maimonides strict emphasis on 
divine unity and simplicity. 

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OK, so I think the first place 
we should begin is indeed, the 

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question pertains directly to 
Rambam. 

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While it's critical for us to 
appreciate we're not just going 

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to be talking about Rambam. 
But with respect to Rambam, is 

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it true that Rambam presents to 
us a system that weds physics 

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and metaphysics? 
Yes, it is. 

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Is it true that Rambam 
introduces arguments that 

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pertain to the cosmology that 
was accepted at the time in the 

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context of his sparring with 
Aristotle? 

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It definitely is. 
However, is it true therefore, 

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that the whole system goes out 
the window, lock, stock, and 

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barrel because we no longer 
subscribe to the cosmology? 

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Of course not. 
There's I grant there is a far 

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more subtle and sophisticated 
endeavor that is incumbent upon 

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us. 
I like to liken it to 

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microsurgery because we tease 
apart the components that are 

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based upon an obsolete physics 
and cosmology to which we 

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unequivocally do not subscribe. 
Broadly speaking, we can note in

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much of Prakim, Gimel and Dalid,
chapters 3 and 4 fall into that 

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category. 
But does that necessarily mean 

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that we jettisoned the 
metaphysics? 

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No. 
And the metaphysics, of course, 

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is primarily what Rama presents 
in Peric Bed chapter 2, which is

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of course intended to address 
the fundamental theological 

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issues that need to be 
addressed. 

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And guide the perplexed. 
R.E.M. does so as well. 

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But ultimately, when we consider
the implications with respect to

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theology, the theology is not 
dependent upon the physics and 

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the cosmology and theology can 
certainly stand even if the 

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physics and cosmology are 
discarded. 

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And it's of course important for
us to appreciate this is 

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something that pertains by no 
means to Rambam alone. 

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We certainly see it enunciated 
by the gamut of the Richonim, in

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the sense of the need to define 
a theology that is sound and 

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categorically monotheistic, and 
simultaneously the extent to 

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which in varying degrees, and 
indeed among the recent 

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inventories, in varying degrees,
in varying reasons, except to 

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which this is on some level 
wedded to an Aristotelian 

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natural philosophy. 
Natural philosophy is what has 

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morphed into science. 
What we mean by science at what 

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was intended by natural 
philosophy in the medieval 

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period are two very, very 
different Belton Schengen. 

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I think a good way of expressing
the difference is This is, after

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all, long before Galileo drummed
into the scientific mind the 

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need for empiricism. 
But again, this is a That, of 

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course, is a far broader issue 
than what we're addressing right

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now. 
It's critical for me to 

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emphasize this is something that
is enunciated not only by 

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Rambam. 
Certainly we see this in Ravi 

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Dalevi and Sever Kuzari in 
varying degrees. 

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We see it in Bramban. 
We see another reshunting as 

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well. 
Ultimately, we see it in Kazal. 

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And it's important for us to 
appreciate this point because on

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the one hand, if you're going to
ask me, to what extent do we 

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derive A coherent theological 
system from Kazal? 

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My response inevitably is to 
invoke 3 words in one of the 

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most famous Hassagot critiques 
of Ravad with respect to what 

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Rambam states in Yohot Shuva in 
chapter 3, Halakhah 7. 

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The halakhah being where Rambam 
lists the various categories of 

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sectarians, those who are 
considered me name and thereby 

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forfeit their share in the world
to come. 

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And the third list is the one 
who believes in supposedly one 

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God, but one God that is 
corporeal. 

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And Rambam consider such an 
individual a mean who has 400 in

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the world to come. 
Ravad descents referring to 

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Dolin de Tobin Mimena, which we 
could either render as greater 

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and better than he, or greater 
and better than we. 

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But certainly presume we're 
talking about some very holy 

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people who embrace this view. 
The the critical problem in the 

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manner in which this comment of 
the Ravad is unfortunately 

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almost ubiquitously misquoted is
is the Ravad coming to justify 

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that view categorically? 
Not because we when he goes on 

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to state is they came to this 
conclusion based on what they 

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saw in Scripture and even more 
So what they saw in Agadot. 

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Hamishab shot it at the OTT and 
those last three words are 

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critical Agadot that confuse 
corrupt the mind and we should 

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take Ravad's warning very much 
to heart. 

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Obviously, Rambam appreciates 
precisely the same point and has

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designated a book to address the
the Rashot of the Khabim and 

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explain how to understand them 
correctly in his missionary 

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commentary. 
Unfortunately, that book becomes

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one of the most important books 
in all of history that was never

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written. 
So we don't have Rambam's 

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guidance in telling us how to 
read Ghazal. 

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But the the essential principle 
Rambam explicitly enunciates 

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that is to read what Khazal 
telling us literally is a 

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pathway that leads to the utter 
diminution of Torah and of us by

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completely misunderstanding what
they're saying and what their 

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gender wasn't saying it. 
That is these Agathot that Ravad

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rather ruthlessly describes as 
corrupting the mind. 

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We're clearly not intended to 
teach theology. 

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And if they were just there for 
corruption, then we would ask 

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why they're they're all 
together. 

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They're there to engender 
emotions, to enthuse us in our 

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divine service, but certainly 
not to learn theology from them.

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And anyone who tends to learn 
theology from them is completely

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misconstruing their agenda and 
coming to conclusions that will 

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be categorically heretical. 
It's important for us to 

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appreciate that, and that's why 
we have the guidance of the 

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racial name. 
And I can't emphasize this point

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enough. 
That's why we have the guidance 

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of the visual name. 
The visual name were essentially

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the first person, precisely 
because they were acting, 

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flourishing, writing in a period
in which Greek philosophy was 

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already relatively accessible. 
In particular, of course, we're 

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Speaking of Rishanis Vavad, 
where Arabic was the lingua 

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franca and the works of the 
Greek philosophers had been 

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translated into Arabic roughly 
between the 8th and 10th 

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centuries. 
And as a result, they 

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appreciated the critical need to
rigorously enunciate a theology 

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of Judaism to combat that 
threat. 

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To combat that threat, on the 
one hand, to not allow that 

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threat to undermine our belief 
in revelation, and 

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simultaneously, no less 
critically, to not allow the 

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retort to that threat to produce
some monstrosity in lieu of 

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Torah that would indeed embrace 
views that are categorically 

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unacceptable because they are 
theologically unsound. 

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So again, do summarize the way 
we need to relate to Rambam, and

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not just Rambam, but the gamut 
of the ritual name is, of 

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course, they express themselves 
in the terms of their time. 

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By the way, we do the same, just
our time is different. 

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But we give them the tremendous 
credit that they deserve for 

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having mastered the science of 
their time, having mastered also

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the philosophy that was the 
antagonist to their faith, in 

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order to be able to enunciate an
understanding of toga that would

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be timely in their time and 
cogent in responding to the 

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challenges of philosophy. 
And of course, we need to do the

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same. 
And what we need to do is reach 

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your name. 
And of course, I, I, I reiterate

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this point over and over again 
because it's something that my 

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life very much revolves around. 
We need to translate. 

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I don't mean linguistic 
translation, I mean conceptual 

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translation. 
Obviously they couched their 

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terms in terms that were 
relevant in their time. 

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We don't live in the same time. 
But there is no period with 

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which we bear a closer 
intellectual affinity than 

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Rishanis Farhad. 
Because our principal challenge 

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today is the challenge of a 
rationalist system that purports

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to do away with the need for and
even justification of belief in 

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revelation. 
And they did too. 

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Just the rationalist system in 
their time was near our 

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civilian. 
The rationalist system today is 

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what we could probably describe 
as scientism. 

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It's a different challenge and 
requires, of course, a different

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enunciation of the principles of
Torah. 

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But we ignore the guidance that 
we shown him at our peril. 

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Thank you SO. 
Much. 

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Thank you so much for the 
guidance. 

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Unfortunately, ignoring them in 
most quarters we do. 

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Thank you so much for that, for 
that explanation. 

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I wouldn't even call it for 
that. 

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Thank you so much for for 
bringing shedding light onto the

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importance of understanding that
the Shanim were were were 

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responding to their own to their
to their own challenges of their

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time, just like we respond and 
or should be responding to the 

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challenges of our time. 
I do want to. 

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Because it becomes a lot easier 
because we have their guidance 

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if we pay attention. 
OK. 

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And if we pay attention, we can 
model off of them into how we 

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would model into how we would 
respond to today's challenges. 

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That's fantastic. 
I do want to ask at the very 

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beginning, you, you mentioned 
that Rambam's theology does not 

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necessarily need the 
Aristotelian system in order to,

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to, to, to, to, to stand. 
It doesn't need to stand on an 

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Aristotelian system. 
I just wanted to know if you can

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demonstrate that a little. 
Let me. 

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Clarify that a bit further, 
because that's not precisely 

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what I said. 
What I said was it doesn't tinge

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upon Aristotelian physics and 
cosmology. 

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There are definitely components 
of Aristotelian metaphysics that

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realm in regards as sound. 
The question that we need to ask

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ourselves, and again, this is 
precisely why I speak of 

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microsurgery, is to what extent 
does the metaphysics go out the 

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window together with the physics
and cosmology. 

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So as a particularly significant
case in point, we speak not only

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from my mind and in perspective,
but certainly from my mind and 

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in perspective of the active 
intellect. 

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I'm emphasizing this point 
because I think there's a point 

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of profound misunderstanding 
among many students around them 

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today. 
It is inevitably a challenge for

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us to recast the concept of the 
active intellect in terms to 

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which we can relate to be 
perfectly rigorous. 

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In the Aristotelian cosmological
system, there is an incorporeal 

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intellect associated with each 
of the cosmological spheres, and

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there is to that extent a series
of spheres, if we can consider 

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them concentrically moving in 
from the outermost 

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all-encompassing sphere. 
That is the sphere associated 

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with the second 'cause that is 
the first derivative cause, from

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the first cause, which is the 
deity. 

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So that's the first level, if 
you will, of incorporeal 

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intellects that are derivative 
of the deity. 

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And that's the sort of 
all-encompassing sphere. 

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And the next concentric sphere 
is the sphere of the fixed 

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stars, then Saturn, then 
Jupiter, then Mars. 

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There's a little bit of a an 
ambiguity with respect to the 

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order of the next ones, but the 
dominant view is the next one is

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the Sun and then Venus and then 
Mercury and then the Moon. 

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00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:07,320
And then there is the sub lunary
realm. 

229
00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:12,160
So if you've been keeping track 
of the numbers, here we are up 

230
00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:16,080
to the 10th derivative cause, 
which is the active intellect. 

231
00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,320
Now, if you ask me, is this part
of Brahman system? 

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00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:24,480
Just looking here like that, 
Rahman gives you a list of 10 

233
00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,920
levels of malachim that is 
precisely intended to be 

234
00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:33,280
correspondent to the system. 
If you ask me, do we subscribe 

235
00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:39,040
therefore to the concentrous 
spheres of Palmic cosmology? 

236
00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,280
Of course not. 
Does this metaphysical system 

237
00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,280
necessarily go out the window 
because Palmic cosmology goes 

238
00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:46,920
out the window? 
Of course not as well. 

239
00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:52,920
That is, the system ultimately 
is one that we can regard as 

240
00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:57,560
sound, irrespective of the 
extent to which the fusion, the 

241
00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:04,440
uneasy marriage to cosmology, 
has been sundered and utterly 

242
00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,360
annulled by the metaphysics, and
still persist. 

243
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,720
And what of course is critical 
for our purposes, talking about 

244
00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:13,280
the act of intellect, the 10th 
level of Malachim Ramam tells us

245
00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:18,680
at the end of Halakhazain, 
again, chapter 2, Holocaust 7 is

246
00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:24,560
Ishim, Ishim so-called, because 
that is the level that communes 

247
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:26,760
with man. 
Now, we're not going to talk 

248
00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,080
about subliminary realm here. 
The way I'll describe it is that

249
00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:37,880
there is the intellectual slash 
spiritual content of our 

250
00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,720
universe. 
That's the accidental. 

251
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:47,480
Is that a concept that can be 
cogent without the physics and 

252
00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:52,040
cosmology unequivocally does 
rhyme subscribe to it and would 

253
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,880
he subscribe to it today? 
I have no doubt with respect to 

254
00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:57,520
the affirmative answer to both 
of those questions. 

255
00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:00,400
And then it's important for us 
what we treat what it gives 

256
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,680
roundabout now with respect to 
how we relate the active 

257
00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:05,200
intellect. 
This is a very complex question,

258
00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:06,120
understanding that we show 
named. 

259
00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:14,400
Ultimately, the argument over 
the extent to which the active 

260
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:20,440
intellect serves in a mediating 
role is the subject of one of 

261
00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:25,280
the most important foundational 
dissensions between Rambam and 

262
00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:29,680
Rambam, in particular revolving 
around the beginning of Parashat

263
00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:34,600
Vaiera Ramban in his commentary 
at the beginning of Bereshit 

264
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:39,480
chapter 18. 
This is a very long comment of 

265
00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,520
Ramban and it's important for us
to appreciate the domains in 

266
00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,920
which he a sense with Rambam in 
the domain she differs. 

267
00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:53,240
On the one hand, the principle 
that if someone sees a Mohach, I

268
00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,600
hesitate to use the translation 
Angel simply because we already 

269
00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:02,040
have in our mind's eye something
of a an idea of what angels are 

270
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:06,280
based upon the ceiling of the 
Sistine Chapel. 

271
00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:10,040
No, they are not fat naked 
babies with wings, they're 

272
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:14,200
incorporeal intellects. 
So, says Rambam, it's impossible

273
00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,520
to see an Angel with physical 
eyes because they are in 

274
00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:19,360
corporeal beings, just as Rambam
says. 

275
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:24,320
And yet there's a critical 
aspect of divergent Rambam says 

276
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,440
that anyone who is described as 
seeing a mouache is necessarily 

277
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,680
in the state of Nevada prophecy.
Ramban says there is a lower 

278
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:36,800
level of vision that is adequate
for being able to see a Mouache,

279
00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:41,240
to commune with Mouache that is 
not identical with prophecy. 

280
00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:44,040
And if you ask me what this 
dissension revolves around, 

281
00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,400
there are other aspects of what 
they're discussing. 

282
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:51,400
Rambam in Myrna Bakim in the 
second unit in chapters 41 and 

283
00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,640
42, and Rambam again in the 
beginning of Pasha Bahia in his 

284
00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:56,400
commentary on Bahishi chapter 
18, verse one. 

285
00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:58,720
Again, there's a lot going on 
there. 

286
00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,920
What I'm going to note for our 
purposes is what they have in 

287
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,280
common, and this is critical for
us to appreciate this point. 

288
00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:11,560
They both agree that there it is
a categorical divergent between 

289
00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,520
the level of Moshe's prophecy 
and the level of everyone else. 

290
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:21,720
Moreover, we also both agree 
that prophecy is categorically 

291
00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:29,000
distinct from what we describe. 
One could say in the parlance of

292
00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:34,000
if you will, Mismar Nun Aleph 
Psalm 51, but more critically in

293
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,840
the parlance of the Gemara as 
Guaqa Kodesh. 

294
00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:40,560
I'd rather leave that 
untranslated rather than say 

295
00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:42,760
Holy Spirit because again, we 
have associations with the 

296
00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:44,880
English translation that would 
definitely be distracting. 

297
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,120
So they both agree that Raka 
Kodesh and Nivvoir are 

298
00:17:48,120 --> 00:17:52,080
categorically distinct, indeed 
both Rambam. 

299
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,480
Rambam in the second unit of the
Moab in chapter 45 where he 

300
00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,040
gives us a typology of levels of
Nivvoir, and Rambam in this 

301
00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:07,480
comment utilize the example of 
Danielle as an exemplar of the 

302
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:09,040
level of Raja Pradesh. 
Is the thing from devoir? 

303
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:15,040
I'll note that Rabbi Hudalevi in
Severa Kusari in the first Amar 

304
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:20,760
in section 87 does the same. 
Is this something that is a 

305
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:22,320
unanimous consensus among to be 
shown in? 

306
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:27,920
NO, because there's still room 
to argue as to whether Raja 

307
00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:31,240
Kodesh and Devoir are separate 
categories in ghazal. 

308
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,600
There's definitely room to argue
about it simply because in the 

309
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:39,760
overwhelming majority of 
instances, Khazal used these two

310
00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:44,600
terms interchangeably. 
Tosetha Masekhat sota says we 

311
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:53,720
should make nevim acronym so you
see the same statement so 

312
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,320
referring to the same thing. 
So what the Rafa Kodesh is thing

313
00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:01,240
from the Bois is a Mahlocat 
vision him as a conspicuous case

314
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:05,680
in point, the military in his 
introduction to severity Lin 

315
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,920
this in descents with regarding 
them as separate and distinct 

316
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:11,240
levels. 
You know we tend to think of the

317
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,320
area as a Maimanadia and here he
critically descents with Rambam.

318
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:19,520
The reason I'm stressing this 
point is Rocha Kodesh. 

319
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,680
I think according to all those 
Vishonim who regarded as a 

320
00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:30,560
separate level from the Bois 
would cast Rocha Kodesh as a 

321
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,320
level of, shall we say, 
hypersensitivity to the 

322
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:40,480
spiritual intellectual content 
of our universe as opposed to a 

323
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,760
message from God. 
Nivua is a message from God. 

324
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,360
I mentioned Rabiudalevi, Rambam,
and Rambam. 

325
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,520
I've no doubt that all three 
would completely agree with that

326
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:55,880
statement. 
There's the additional dimension

327
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,960
besides the bifurcation between 
Nivua and Rafa Kodesh that we 

328
00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:02,880
need to ask with respect to the 
Nivua of Moshe. 

329
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,200
Is that something that is 
categorically distinct from all 

330
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:08,960
of them being? 
And again, I'm going to state, 

331
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,080
according to Alderishuddin, 
unequivocally, how do I know? 

332
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,400
Because it's an explicit Gamara,
Because the Gamara in track to 

333
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,600
give them up. 
Page 49 B tells us all the 

334
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,360
prophets gaze through uncleared 
glass and Moshe glazed through 

335
00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:22,200
cleared glass. 
And then we need to quantify 

336
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:23,920
what the nature of the 
distinction between these two 

337
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:30,480
levels is. 
So Rambam is far more focused on

338
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:38,040
the critical importance of our 
appreciating that Nuvoir is not 

339
00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:43,400
actually bringing God into this 
world, but ultimately everyone 

340
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:48,680
would agree with it. 
Ramban, as a case in point, is 

341
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,720
far more concerned with 
emphasizing that not only Moshe 

342
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,320
but also all other Naveen are 
getting a message from God. 

343
00:20:56,120 --> 00:20:58,920
So he diminishes the importance 
of speaking about what is 

344
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:00,960
unequivocally the qualitative 
difference between the level of 

345
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,040
nivua and the level of nivua of 
all the prophets. 

346
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,080
But he certainly subscribes to 
subscribes to the premise that 

347
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:07,560
such a qualitative distinction 
exists. 

348
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,160
Just as unequivocally. 
Rambam also maintains that nivua

349
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,040
is, as opposed to rakat is 
getting a direct message from 

350
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:16,680
God direct. 
Direct, not necessarily as in 

351
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,640
God being revealed directly in 
this world, but it is the 

352
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,160
content of the message is a 
message from God, even if it 

353
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:26,200
operates via intermediaries such
as the active intellect. 

354
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,480
They're going to ask me, do we 
have to subscribe to the being 

355
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,480
exactly 10 levels of malachim 
the way ramen presents it, Maybe

356
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:39,080
yes, maybe no. 
But the the idea of again, there

357
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:43,600
being such a thing as receiving 
a divine message, there being a 

358
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,520
distinction between the level at
which God communes with Moshe 

359
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,560
and he communes with other 
Naveen, and there being a lower 

360
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,600
level of revelation that is 
being resonant with the 

361
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,840
spiritual content of our 
universe as opposed to getting 

362
00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:02,160
an actual divine message. 
All those distinctions, again, 

363
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:04,840
we mentioned Rabi, UDA, Levi, 
Rambam and Ramban. 

364
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:09,960
I'm happy to, with very great 
elaboration, prove that each one

365
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,240
of them subscribes to all the 
premises that I just enunciated.

366
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:17,280
But you you made a point to say 
not direct a few seconds ago, 

367
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:18,360
right? 
Right. 

368
00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:21,640
And again, that that is all of 
them would also agree that the 

369
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:26,200
level of revelation to all other
prophets is qualitatively 

370
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,280
distinct from the level of 
revelation to Moshe. 

371
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:30,440
But they're still getting a 
message. 

372
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,920
It's not simply Rafael Kodesh. 
Indeed, that's precisely the 

373
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:39,040
point that all three in 
different ways stress that 

374
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,320
Rafael Kodesh is this thing from
the VOIS. 

375
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,560
Well, I'll add additionally, 
this is a point that of the 

376
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,200
three reviewed, Ali makes most 
explicit, although again, I'm 

377
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,200
still going to argue that all 
three subscribe to it. 

378
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,920
That what we mean when we talk 
about Rafael Kodesh is what the 

379
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:54,720
Neo Aristotelians mean when they
talk about prophecy. 

380
00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:01,440
If you want the excellent 
specimen of the idea of a 

381
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,720
prophetic voice among the 
philosophers, candidly, I have a

382
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:12,400
very lengthy dissertation to 
present on the subject of the 

383
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,400
prophetic voice to which 
Socrates refers twice in his 

384
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,000
trial. 
But again, I think I would take 

385
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,640
us too far afield. 
What I'm stressing is the Greek 

386
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,960
philosophers had no idea of an 
affirmative message that comes 

387
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:29,040
from God. 
Zachary speaks of a voice, he 

388
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:30,920
calls it a voice, but a voice 
that dissuades him from doing 

389
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:32,360
what he shouldn't be doing. 
You know, there's a 

390
00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:34,120
hypersensitivity to going out of
bounds, but there's no 

391
00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:36,280
affirmative message. 
There was an affirmative 

392
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,800
message. 
Everyone, everyone who's 

393
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,720
faithful to Torah believes that 
unequivocally. 

394
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,280
Rambam as well. 
Anyone who claims otherwise 

395
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,800
isn't really Rambam. 
Yeah, unfortunately you, you may

396
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,400
have just alluded to this, but 
there are, you know, I, I 

397
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,840
appreciate you, you mentioning 
the Rachel name because there's 

398
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,960
a tendency to say that Rambam is
like a you know, dat yahir He 

399
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,920
he's a singular thinker. 
And you know, like as if to say 

400
00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:02,040
that he doesn't see eye to eye 
with a Rachel name and they 

401
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:03,640
don't see eye to eye with him. 
And I think that's. 

402
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:05,440
Copy, show name. 
It's important for us to 

403
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,280
appreciate you. 
You don't believe Mahalkit. 

404
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,840
That is, there are 
disagreements, but it's 

405
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:11,800
important for us to appreciate 
the disagreements are far more 

406
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,880
subtle then I I suspect is 
generally conceived. 

407
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:20,480
If I may just interject the very
recent citation, Ruff Cook 

408
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:25,560
decried the superficiality of 
people who draw facile 

409
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:30,000
distinctions and cubbyhole 
different rishonim in different 

410
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,680
categories without appreciating 
the nuances that on the one hand

411
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,280
distinguish between them and of 
course on the other hand, in 

412
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,120
large measure unite them. 
But of course you only get a 

413
00:24:40,120 --> 00:24:42,000
sense of that when you study 
them seriously. 

414
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,640
What he was decrying was the 
fact that in Ishibot nowadays 

415
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,320
almost no one does, and the ones
who do study them seriously 

416
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:51,360
don't have an agenda of abode 
audition. 

417
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:56,440
Because as I think we've noted, 
in other contexts, The Academy 

418
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,920
Is academic. 
Academic is an adjective that 

419
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:07,760
has two meanings that might seem
unrelated but are inexorably 

420
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:12,200
conjoint pertaining to the 
Academy and divorced from the 

421
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:16,080
realities of life. 
So the reason we never wrote 

422
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,360
academic works? 
Their philosophy was all means 

423
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,200
to avodah tashem, and they need 
to be studied that way. 

424
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,600
And that applies absolutely to 
all the reasoning whom we've 

425
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:28,800
cited. 
Absolutely. 

426
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,920
So there's just one thing I want
to get some clarity on because 

427
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,920
the second part of the the first
question, which was about 

428
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,360
Rambam's strict emphasis on 
divine unity and simplicity. 

429
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,560
The question is whether a system
of Kabbalah could be useful, 

430
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,440
because if you ask most, you 
know, experts in Kabala, they'll

431
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,440
say all this is metaphoric and 
so on. 

432
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:50,360
So what would be the issue? 
What where is it? 

433
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,120
Is there a distinction still? 
Well, I'll note with respect to 

434
00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:57,040
Kabbalah, I don't by any means 
pretend to be an expert on the 

435
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:01,520
subject, but first and foremost,
it's critical for us to 

436
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:08,560
appreciate that Kabbalah is 
enunciated, formulated as means 

437
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,360
to Avodah. 
Certainly taking it literally, 

438
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,560
it can by no means be the basis 
of a system of theology, but 

439
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:17,840
simultaneously, I'm not going to
say that it is irreconcilable 

440
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:19,720
with the system of theology. 
It's only when you take it 

441
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,400
literally that it is that. 
So as a case in point, I'm going

442
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,200
to note in particular, and I 
believe I've cited him in 

443
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,960
previous meetings of ours, one 
of the greatest Jewish 

444
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,720
philosophers of all time, who no
one recognizes was a Jewish 

445
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:36,320
philosopher, Rabbi Mosa Isilish,
the Rama in Sepia Tarata Allah, 

446
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,040
which is one of those profound 
works of philosophy I've ever 

447
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,600
read. 
And one of the agendas of the 

448
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,000
Rama, they didn't call him the 
Rambam of Poland for nothing. 

449
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:52,320
One of his agendas was not by 
any means, I'll even say that's 

450
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,040
the Khalila to read Rambam, 
Rambam as if Rambam is in Kabal.

451
00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:59,600
Rambam is not written in Kabal, 
but simultaneously on the 

452
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,280
premise that Jewish philosophy 
is cogent and the Rama certainly

453
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,120
regarded as being so, and that 
the Kabbalistic system can also 

454
00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:09,520
be cogent. 
There needs to be some way of 

455
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,400
bridging what seemed like an 
unbridgeable gap between them. 

456
00:27:12,120 --> 00:27:17,880
And of course, inevitably one of
the most thorny issues is what 

457
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:22,920
do we mean by spirit? 
Obviously, if they are construed

458
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:27,360
in any literal sense as 
pertaining to the realm of the 

459
00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:34,560
divine, that's polytheism and 
what their map proposes. 

460
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,600
An approach that I personally 
wholeheartedly embrace is that 

461
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,000
we relate to this field as Tariq
Ulot. 

462
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,840
That's the concept, of course, 
that Rabiudalevi addresses in 

463
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,200
the second Mamar Sava Kuzuri in 
Siman bed that Rambam addresses 

464
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:53,880
in the 50s in the first unit of 
the guide beginning in chapter 

465
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,200
52. 
Tariq Ulot, as all the reason I 

466
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,960
recognize will be multiple. 
It's describing God in terms of 

467
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,120
the manner in which we perceive 
His actions manifest in this 

468
00:28:03,120 --> 00:28:05,000
world. 
That doesn't, of course, in any 

469
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,360
way imply multiplicity in the 
realm of the divine. 

470
00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:12,800
They're simply recognizing that 
we believe God acts from our 

471
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,080
perspective in a manner that we 
perceive in this world. 

472
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,120
And we describe the manner in 
which which we perceive with 

473
00:28:18,120 --> 00:28:21,160
those manifestations using 
various adjectives, various 

474
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,280
divine attributes. 
Here we are very much the time 

475
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,720
of year of focusing upon the 
Yudh Gilami, Dota Rahami, and 

476
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:33,000
they are perhaps even in all, 
certainly the best majority 

477
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,400
tolerate a lot. 
You're describing Goddess 

478
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,160
compassionate, forgiving. 
What do those words mean? 

479
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,520
That mean that we observe 
manifestations in this world of 

480
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,320
what we would describe were we 
to ascribe those manifestations 

481
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,040
to a human agent as being 
compassionate and being 

482
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:49,160
forgiving and so on and so 
forth. 

483
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,440
But we aren't in any way 
implying that this is an 

484
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:58,440
identification of Khasa Khalila,
some component part in the realm

485
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,440
of the divine. 
That's a critical point for us 

486
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,840
to appreciate and and of course 
to that extent it's important 

487
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:09,920
for us to relate to whatever one
chooses to appropriate from the 

488
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,240
Kabbalistic system in a manner 
that will indeed cohere with 

489
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,200
theology. 
So I guess I certainly present 

490
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,560
the Ramada's perspective as one 
that to me is not just 

491
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,560
compelling, but as a lifesaver. 
There could be other systems as 

492
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,160
well, but certainly to 
understand Kabbalah in a manner 

493
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:30,920
that contravenes the essential 
principles of irreducible 

494
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:35,400
absolute divine unity and 
simplicity is something that we 

495
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,440
regard as heretical. 
So I would say that most people,

496
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,920
I, I don't want to spend too 
much time on Kabbalah because 

497
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,440
the bulk of this really is we 
want to, we, we want to focus 

498
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:50,600
on, on Harman that is shown in 
but just on your .2 points, 

499
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:57,000
actually, most people that have 
a superficial or cursory or sort

500
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:03,040
of, you know, not not fully 
informed or, you know, just a 

501
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:04,840
casual, let's say, acquaintance 
with Kabbalah. 

502
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,680
For the most part, people will 
employ that type of terminology 

503
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,440
and understanding. 
You ask, you know, an average 

504
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,400
person who doesn't, you know, 
study Kabbalah, but like, you 

505
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,120
know, you know, but has like a, 
you know, it's in his tongue, 

506
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:19,400
but it's not something he's 
really delved into. 

507
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,400
Let's say these are the medot 
that we, you know that we that 

508
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,120
we see from from OK. 
But it's again the critical 

509
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,200
question to ask. 
Is what No, they mean that 

510
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:31,440
actions, which yeah, what I'm 
saying is is that a, a casual, a

511
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:37,560
casual person for the most part 
would would hopefully likely not

512
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,840
go beyond that because divine 
simplicity is something that is,

513
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,600
you know thrown in our thrown in
people's they're they're told 

514
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,720
about divine simplicity all the 
time right so I. 

515
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:48,280
Would hope so. 
I'm not. 

516
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:49,520
Well, no. 
The. 

517
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,880
Capitalists do that, though to 
be fair, the capitalists always 

518
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,440
try to differentiate between, 
you know, you know, they do, 

519
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,000
they do. 
There, there is those 

520
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,800
differentiations that are that 
are put on the table. 

521
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,040
What I was going to say was, was
that there's really two ways to 

522
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,840
go about Kabbalah. 
You can either try to discredit 

523
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,280
Kabbalah or like you just 
suggested, you can actually just

524
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,840
repackage Kabbalah like like 
Dharma did right into a way 

525
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:17,360
which will not not go into a 
heretical position and and 

526
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,040
purport that understanding. 
What would you suggest? 

527
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:24,680
How would some of the best way 
to go about it to go? 

528
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,840
So on some level, however 
pedestrian and cliche this 

529
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,480
answer might appear, different 
strokes for different folks. 

530
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,120
By which I mean there are those 
who feel a tremendous resonance 

531
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,560
with Kabbalah and they're 
certainly not going to come to 

532
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:40,800
negate it. 
In particular, once we 

533
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,760
appreciate that Kabbalah 
unequivocally has a venerable 

534
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:48,160
tradition. 
That is Saifabahir is a work 

535
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,520
rather than where we can cast 
cast aspersions on it's 

536
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,720
description to Rabina Khanna. 
But it certainly is a very 

537
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,160
venerable, very old work. 
And we appreciate that the 

538
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:02,040
tradition of Kabbalah that 
Ramban as a case in point 

539
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,280
possessed certainly don't begin 
with Ramban. 

540
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:13,360
On some level presumptively 
trace it back from Ramban to he 

541
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:19,040
himself being a Tamit of his 
father, he himself being a Tammi

542
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,080
of his father-in-law. 
It's a little bit difficult for 

543
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,680
us to identify specific names 
with the couple of tradition 

544
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,280
earlier than that. 
But unequivocally, there's some.

545
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,280
There is a venerable tradition 
here which I certainly am not 

546
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,200
going to come to belittle 
simultaneously. 

547
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:36,840
What I don't know is the manner 
in which the Ritva, the Ritva 

548
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:43,720
being one of the foremost heirs 
of the baby Joshua Ramban, being

549
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:45,600
one of the foremost Tamil name 
of the Rashba, was one of the 

550
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,840
foremost Tamil name of Ramban. 
The Ritva famously, maybe not 

551
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,120
sufficiently famously but should
be famously, wrote a slim volume

552
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:59,080
called Sefirazi Karon for the 
express purpose of responding to

553
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:03,480
all of Ramban's critiques of 
Mohim in Ramban's commentary on 

554
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,960
the Torah. 
And even says to himself, you 

555
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,560
could say, if I can render it in
an English idiom, I'm sticking 

556
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,720
my neck out for something I 
don't even embrace, because the 

557
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:13,720
Ritva is definitely party to 
believe in Kabbalah. 

558
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:20,800
Simultaneously, the Ritva in 
defending Rambam says we still 

559
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,880
need to appreciate that Rambam 
has a consistent system and was 

560
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,040
justified in half. 
I guess whether and Aretha 

561
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,400
admits 2 possibilities here, 
whether the tradition of 

562
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,600
Kabbalah is something that 
Rambam never heard or that he 

563
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,920
heard it and rejected it, and 
the regard was both of those 

564
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:37,200
possibilities are completely 
acceptable. 

565
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:39,800
The read about regards both of 
those possibilities as 

566
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:45,000
acceptable in as much as he does
not by any means consider only 

567
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:46,800
the Kabbalistic system to be a 
coach for that's the whole 

568
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:51,120
purpose of Seth Razi Karam. 
So again, there can certainly be

569
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:55,840
a gamut of views on this score, 
as long as it is subordinate to 

570
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,920
the Verity that we are beholden 
to enunciating a theology that's

571
00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:02,120
consistent with Torah. 
The problem, the problem is, is 

572
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,520
if you go and if if you try to 
repackage like what Dorama tries

573
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:10,520
to do, which is very honorable 
and to repackage it as you know,

574
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:16,960
actions which we, which we in 
our own mental framework 

575
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,639
interpret as certain type of 
qualities. 

576
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,520
The problem here and doesn't 
relate to anything within God. 

577
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,840
The problem here is at least the
problem as I see it is, is that 

578
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:31,080
that could work and should work 
and probably would work if we're

579
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:35,320
talking about 50 years ago, 100 
years ago, 150 years ago, even 

580
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,719
as far back and maybe even 20-30
years ago when people didn't 

581
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,040
have much access to a lot of 
works like we do today. 

582
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,080
You go right now into a farm 
store. 

583
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,159
Every Hasidic book is not just 
printed, but it's printed with 

584
00:34:47,159 --> 00:34:50,080
like with commentaries and 
annotations and footnotes. 

585
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,840
And So what happens is, is you 
have like the Ram Khal who who I

586
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:56,320
tremendously have respected Ram 
Khal. 

587
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,000
But you, you go into his works, 
you will see that there's a 

588
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,920
discussion about, right, the 
spirit as it pertains to God, 

589
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,520
right. 
So what I'm trying to say is, is

590
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:11,680
that as a as a standalone, the 
Rama is a wonderful, wonderful 

591
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,440
way to repackage and to put 
Kabbalah into a, let's just say,

592
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,600
quote UN quote, kosher light. 
But I worry that there's too 

593
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,080
much out there right now that 
get into get into Kabbalah too 

594
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,960
deeply meant for the average man
to read for that to really 

595
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,920
stand. 
I can't disagree with your fear.

596
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,000
That is, I think it's critical 
for students first to be well 

597
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:37,200
grounded in directioning, in 
particular in the theology that 

598
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,520
we learn from them. 
I could say through them from 

599
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,880
Khazal in order to ensure that 
the Kabbalistic perspective is 

600
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,800
not going to in any way draw 
them in heterodox directions. 

601
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:56,400
Yeah, I think I also need to 
stress here, there certainly is 

602
00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:59,800
a critical line of demarcation 
that needs to be drawn between 

603
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:01,360
Kabbalah to be shown in Kabbalah
Akharoni. 

604
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,680
Absolutely, yeah. 
I'd rather not elaborate upon 

605
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:11,120
that, but what I certainly do 
feel compelled to stress is, you

606
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:17,160
know, we have no further to go 
then the Mishnah of of Talion in

607
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:27,960
the first Paracle of Piuqueta. 
Now if on some level not 

608
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,400
already, I want to say this, but
on some level we could ascribe 

609
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,200
that warning. 
Sages, be careful with what you 

610
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:41,760
say even to Antigonus Isocho for
having bidden us to serve the 

611
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,040
Master without thinking of 
reward, and that was 

612
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:48,960
misconstrued by Sadok and Baitos
his students to imply there is 

613
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:50,800
no reward and there's no such 
thing as the world to come. 

614
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:56,200
Then I think it's safe to state 
as a Kalbachammer all the more 

615
00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:02,440
so, so many authors over the 
last centuries who wrote works 

616
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:04,880
maybe very much along the lines 
of what you're proposing. 

617
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,120
Maybe they never expected these 
works to be broadly 

618
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,520
disseminated, and if they would 
never been disseminated, they 

619
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:11,960
wouldn't have been this danger. 
Not even disseminated, but 

620
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:16,480
analyzed and and and built upon 
and and made made readable to 

621
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,520
the To a layman person, it's 
like. 

622
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:19,680
Yeah, I, I, I don't know if I 
can. 

623
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:25,120
I don't know if I can justify 
all of these works by blaming it

624
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:29,160
on the contemporary editors. 
I think there are works that 

625
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:30,640
already were very much when they
were written in. 

626
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,280
Violation, but I was just I was 
just pointing towards the fact 

627
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,680
that today you can look, you can
pretty much take any kabbalistic

628
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,120
safer and get a a commentary on 
it. 

629
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,320
That will, that will, that will,
that will explain it to you. 

630
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:44,240
Almost like an art squirrel on a
Gomara. 

631
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:46,760
So who's failure? 
So who's failure is that? 

632
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:52,960
That is the failure of UCP, of 
education that does not provide 

633
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:59,120
students with a firm, thorough, 
cogent grounding in theology, in

634
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,360
what we're supposed to believe. 
Yeah, based upon the ritual. 

635
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,320
Name great point because they 
had it great point so much focus

636
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,400
on Mara Moussa, which is all 
important Mara Moussa, but 

637
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,640
there's no the fundamentals 
aren't they don't if you. 

638
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:11,080
Don't on the ritual name. 
Then how are you supposed to be?

639
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,240
There's a there's a little 
mitzvah, a little mitzvah. 

640
00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:15,080
That's a great point. 
And several mitzvah is the first

641
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:20,840
one, which is idiyatashem. 
If you don't study this a 

642
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:25,760
little, point little. 
No, but yeah, I didn't want to. 

643
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:27,400
We didn't want to. 
People can. 

644
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,480
Construct a vision of Judaism 
that is categorically 

645
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,360
antithetical to the Torah. 
And unfortunately it's not. 

646
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,080
They can, they do. 
This is a terrible danger that 

647
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,280
we encounter today because 
people aren't grounded in 

648
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,760
understanding Torah through the 
prism of our masarat. 

649
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:45,440
That's really what it goes down 
to. 

650
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,600
How is it that people understand
very well that when it comes to 

651
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,720
halakha, there has to be some 
concept of masarat and you don't

652
00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:57,640
come up with some newfangled 
idea that has no grounded in in 

653
00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:59,720
our early sources. 
But when it comes to theology, 

654
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,320
when it comes to Idiatashem, 
they have no qualms about 

655
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:09,000
completely discounting our 
mentors, the Rishonim and 

656
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:10,800
ultimately Khazao, because the 
original explaining Khazao. 

657
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,640
It's a fairpoint. 
That's a fairpoint. 

658
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:17,720
It's a point that we we 
belabored here a lot. 

659
00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:22,520
If I can just stress one 
particular idea that is really 

660
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,080
enunciated repeatedly in the 
mitrash, but it is of such 

661
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:29,520
critical importance and 
unfortunately so roundly 

662
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,640
ignored. 
The mitrash in the Rashid Rabba,

663
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,560
which of course is one of the 
earliest mitrashi, worked in 

664
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:40,880
parasha 68 in paragraph 9 on 
Vaif Gabba Macomb. 

665
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:45,600
This is on the Rashid chapter 
2028, verse 11, whom Ikomo shel 

666
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:50,240
olam the EN olamo MI como, that 
we refer to God as Macomb as the

667
00:39:50,240 --> 00:39:52,720
place, usually translated as the
omnipresent one, but literally 

668
00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:54,800
the place because he's the place
of the world and the world isn't

669
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:58,320
his place. 
Meaning he is absolutely 

670
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:02,360
transcendent of the world and 
the world that is the entire 

671
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,240
universe. 
Everything is entirely subsumed 

672
00:40:05,240 --> 00:40:07,160
within him. 
When I say everything, I don't 

673
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,240
mean planet Earth. 
I don't even just mean the 

674
00:40:09,240 --> 00:40:12,840
physical universe. 
I mean all of the realms that we

675
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,960
would describe as spiritual. 
Everything is subsumed within 

676
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,440
Kibyaho. 
God and God transcends it all. 

677
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,680
And that absolute categorical 
transcendence, of course it's my

678
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:24,000
mind at the end. 
It's not just my mind at the 

679
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:25,400
end. 
It's kazal. 

680
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:27,560
It's kazal. 
And everyone subscribes to this.

681
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:32,080
There's no white way that anyone
can be faithful to Torah belief 

682
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:37,360
as the sages of the Madras 
taught us, as the Rishonim 

683
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:39,800
taught us, and not appreciate 
this point. 

684
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,840
And this midrash has has a huge 
number of cognates in other 

685
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:44,560
midrashic works. 
I'm not going to start listening

686
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,240
to them all because I realized 
that would take us too far 

687
00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:50,560
afield. 
But the the principle that he is

688
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:55,080
the place of the world Olamot 
Philalov enhu TA fell olamo in 

689
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,680
the formulation in Midrash Tilim
on Psalm 90. 

690
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:00,600
So I I I feel anything. 
Else is accessory. 

691
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,280
God is transcendent. 
Yeah, I think the the whole idea

692
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,760
of God being transcendent is 
something that people struggle 

693
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,360
to understand when it comes to 
like how miracles were. 

694
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:11,040
And we discussed this on the 
podcast as well. 

695
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:15,920
But also like the the messaging 
that I met Moshe got at Harcini,

696
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,720
the experience at Harcini, like 
what what exactly happened 

697
00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:21,160
there? 
If it's not direct, how, how do 

698
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,480
we explain in in on one foot, 
obviously what it is that's 

699
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,000
going on because obviously 
there's no direct interaction. 

700
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,120
So you know what? 
What comes to mind perhaps most 

701
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:36,600
immediately with respect to that
question is a discussion between

702
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:38,920
the Kazakh king and the Javert 
and separate Kuzeri. 

703
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:45,920
That is already noted that Rabbi
Levy speaks of the uniqueness of

704
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:52,320
Nivois versus the concept of 
prophecy that is invoked by the 

705
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:56,200
Greek philosophers in the first 
treaty specific rosary in 

706
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,560
section 87 where he speaks at 
length about Mohammad Har Sinai.

707
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,680
The Theophonic Sinai is what 
drummed into AMI Israel the 

708
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,080
realization that prophecies on a
completely different level of 

709
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:08,280
ontology and not at all 
incidentally by consequence of 

710
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,520
this, the manner in which 
Rebuttalibi casts the king. 

711
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,640
Of course, Rebuttalibi is the 
author of the whole shebang. 

712
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:16,440
He wrote both sides of the 
dialogue. 

713
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:21,320
The manner in which he casts the
king responding to this 

714
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:25,800
description of the Revelation at
Sinai is anyone who hears your 

715
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:30,960
words will inevitably ascribe to
you belief in divine corporal 

716
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:32,600
reality. 
But you can't blame you either 

717
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,560
because after all, you saw these
astounding visions that were 

718
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:41,040
palpable and the resounding 
response of the Javert. 

719
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:43,440
I suspect we'll be returning to 
this response later on in this 

720
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,600
discussion. 
But the the first line Khalila 

721
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,680
la El mihasheke omashekhal Malik
otovi simihal sheke. 

722
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:53,240
God forbid that we should 
believe in something that is 

723
00:42:53,240 --> 00:42:55,760
false or the intellect rejects 
in regards as false. 

724
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,480
We don't believe in anything 
that is categorically illogical.

725
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,800
What he goes on to emphasize is 
that we aren't speaking about 

726
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,600
divinity being manifest, but 
rather again the the manner in 

727
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:09,560
which we connect with these 
derivatives that God has 

728
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,960
established. 
Whether it is that God creates 

729
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:17,400
an, an acoustical vibration in 
the air that we hear as the 

730
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,160
words of the Decalogue or some 
other mechanism. 

731
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:26,680
He doesn't limit the explanation
to one particular course of 

732
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:30,280
events, but that obviously we, 
we maintain our categorical 

733
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,760
belief in divine transcendence. 
And what we're affirming is that

734
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,840
this manifest through this 
process, if you will, of 

735
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:37,680
emanations. 
So what does that mean? 

736
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,400
On some level, I'll say, well, 
whether we take the approach of 

737
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,200
the philosophers or we take the 
approach from Qalim, we're going

738
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:44,160
to speak in some sense in these 
terms. 

739
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:46,360
The, the transcendence is 
maintained. 

740
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:49,360
The Qalim also speak about the 
insof. 

741
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,240
There's this dimension of 
transcendence and simultaneously

742
00:43:52,240 --> 00:43:54,000
there's something that we will 
experience in this world. 

743
00:43:55,720 --> 00:43:59,000
So, so just just to end this 
segment, I want to just get some

744
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,560
clarity on one, one point, which
is, and I, and I've asked this 

745
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,040
question, I think to Len 
Goodman, but this is a question 

746
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:08,160
that has come up before on the 
podcast, which is Moshe, He 

747
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:12,720
writes the, the first four books
of the, of the, of the Torah, As

748
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,040
you know, from is God's 
dictation, right? 

749
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,640
And it's the same person with 
the same mind getting the same 

750
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:20,800
level of nuvoir. 
But then what does it mean that 

751
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:25,640
he wrote the varim from his own 
mind, from his own words? 

752
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:27,120
Like what? 
How do we make? 

753
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:34,360
How do we square that circle? 
What I well state as a two word 

754
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:39,480
synopsis of the answer is the 
way the Torah describes Moshev 

755
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:44,800
in Parasha Ish Elokim. 
Meaning what? 

756
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,520
No, that doesn't mean the 
concept of a man God. 

757
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:51,640
That's not Judaism. 
But what it does signify is that

758
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:54,920
there is the potentiality for 
human being to become so 

759
00:44:54,920 --> 00:45:00,040
rarefied by his connection to 
Hagar Daswarako that he indeed 

760
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:04,000
becomes a faithful conduit for 
what Hagar Daswarako wants to 

761
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,120
instruct us evenly, speaking in 
his own voice. 

762
00:45:07,720 --> 00:45:09,440
And some of us, Shrinamida, bear
with me, talk to you. 

763
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,400
Or not. 
Which is also causal, so that 

764
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:17,840
there is some nuance of 
distinction between dictation, 

765
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:22,680
which if anything mandates of 
Moshe, the utmost level of 

766
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:29,440
passivity receive, and the 
dimension that is manifest in 

767
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:36,880
mishnetogra with Moshe as 
Ishaiah Hakim, that he as his 

768
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,960
persona is faithfully conveying 
to us Dwar Hashem. 

769
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:43,760
Now ultimately this is a 
singularity in Moshe, but not 

770
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,440
entirely singularity. 
I say not entirely singularity, 

771
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,840
because, you know, ultimately 
I'll say that's precisely the 

772
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:55,560
point that the dimara makes on 
the second pasuk of the Helium 

773
00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:06,280
in Maseka Daudazara, page 19 A, 
The pasuk reads his desires in 

774
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,200
the Torah of God and his Torah. 
He articulates their night. 

775
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:12,000
And of course, inevitably the 
question which grammatically is 

776
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:15,040
ambiguous, is his Torah. 
Whose Torah? 

777
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:20,080
What's the antecedent? 
You could of course, proposed at

778
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:21,600
the end to say that this is 
going to be God and we're 

779
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,720
talking about God's Torah. 
But the Gemara's proposition is 

780
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:28,920
it starts out being described as
torat Hashem, and becomes 

781
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:34,320
torato, the Torah of the student
who is articulating it. 

782
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,920
This ultimately is the whole 
dynamism of Kenyan Torah. 

783
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:41,520
You don't really study Torah, 
you acquire Torah, you 

784
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,560
internalize Torah, you integrate
Torah, you become transformed by

785
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:46,840
toga. 
This is also the same principle 

786
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:51,880
that the Gemara enunciates in 
asking the question famously in 

787
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:56,640
Kedushin page 40 at the end of 
the first chapter, Talmud Gadola

788
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,160
Mahse Gadol. 
And the answer that ultimately 

789
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:02,200
the Gemara provides is Talmud 
Gadol Shah, Talmud Mehbili de 

790
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:04,680
Masah. 
Talmud is greater than deed 

791
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,800
because it leads to deed. 
Not if it leads to deed, not to 

792
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,320
the extent that leads to need. 
Not insofar as it leads to deed.

793
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:11,680
If it doesn't lead to deed, it's
not tumbled. 

794
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,960
What does that mean? 
That the only part of Torah that

795
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:16,720
I should be studying is of 
course not. 

796
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,600
But that shutara is 
transformative. 

797
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:22,960
If you become a different 
person, obviously everything you

798
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:24,600
do is going to be different 
because you are different. 

799
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,920
That's the quest in the 
integration of Torah into 

800
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:30,680
ourselves. 
So we each do it in varying 

801
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:32,920
degrees. 
Ultimately, we each pray. 

802
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:39,040
We pray every day, every time we
say the amida the 10th. 

803
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,640
The one who achieved this to the
utmost degree is Moshe, and to 

804
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:46,800
that extent he can give us torad
Hashem. 

805
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:49,960
We talk Grono, which is Saifa 
Mishnah Torad. 

806
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:57,320
Just to go back when we finished
the the the the original 

807
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:59,720
question. 
So if I understood you 

808
00:47:59,720 --> 00:48:04,840
correctly, what you were trying 
to say was you accept the fact 

809
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:12,080
that, that there has to be some 
sort of mechanism that it cannot

810
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:16,000
be direct because that would be 
an impossibility. 

811
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:22,960
But we meaning so whereas the 
Lambam using the, the, the 

812
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:26,760
philosophy of his time and it 
worked for him to to create that

813
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:28,120
mechanism. 
That's what he did. 

814
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,920
But now that the mechanism 
doesn't work, OK, so we don't 

815
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:35,240
use that mechanism. 
We just accept the fact that 

816
00:48:35,240 --> 00:48:41,040
there's a mechanism which we 
won't understand or know of, but

817
00:48:41,240 --> 00:48:44,000
but because of the logical 
impossibility of there not being

818
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,400
a mechanism, we just accept 
there's a mechanism without 

819
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:49,080
fully understanding it. 
And then? 

820
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:51,680
We're not going to go that way. 
First of all, I have. 

821
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:53,200
I have. 
I wanted to get it clear. 

822
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:56,440
OK, so I have two, if I will. 
If I May 2 critical critiques of

823
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:58,000
the formulation. 
First of all, it's not only 

824
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:02,200
logic, it's also masarat. 
Again, I reiterate the mitraash 

825
00:49:02,720 --> 00:49:04,400
God transcends the world and is 
not consumed within it. 

826
00:49:04,720 --> 00:49:08,720
That is integral to our belief 
in Torah, and anyone who claims 

827
00:49:08,720 --> 00:49:12,640
some conception of divine 
imminence that violates that is 

828
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:16,280
enunciating some ISM. 
But it isn't Judaism. 

829
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:18,760
It's not Torah that 
unequivocally. 

830
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:23,520
Additionally, I'm going to again
stress that what Rama is 

831
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:27,920
providing us is a metaphysics 
that can still be cogent even if

832
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,240
the physics and the cosmology go
out the window. 

833
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:32,840
So when Rahman I read it, when 
Rahman talks about the active 

834
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:36,840
intellect, I have no problem 
enunciating the possibility. 

835
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,560
I'll say possibility because as 
a case in point, Rabiu da Lebi 

836
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:41,280
is not so big on the active 
intellect for a number of 

837
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:45,120
reasons. 
But nonetheless, the Mahmana, 

838
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:48,800
the perspective of enunciating 
this concept of an intellectual 

839
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:50,960
slash spiritual content of our 
world, that is the active 

840
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:53,440
intellect and the services of 
the mediation of spirituality 

841
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:55,960
coming into this world, it's 
still a caution possibility. 

842
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:58,160
I can understand what that means
and I could give a whole 

843
00:49:58,160 --> 00:49:59,640
dissertation on what means by 
it. 

844
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:04,400
And the fact that the cosmology 
and the physics are obsolete 

845
00:50:04,720 --> 00:50:06,080
doesn't make the metaphysics 
obsolete. 

846
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:08,280
Does that mean that I have to 
understand things in this 

847
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:09,720
manner? 
Again, I'm going to reiterate 

848
00:50:09,720 --> 00:50:13,400
no, because indeed we find other
reasoning enunciating other 

849
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,640
formulations, but it's important
for us to emphasize we aren't 

850
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:20,840
taking some kind of, I'm not 
quite sure how to describe it, 

851
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:25,200
but some kind of phytistic 
proposition that there's 

852
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:27,480
something enigmatic going on 
here and we don't know what's 

853
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:29,520
going on. 
But we just, we have to have 

854
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:31,320
some cogent way of, of 
explaining to ourselves what 

855
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:32,680
we're talking about. 
If we don't have any cogent way 

856
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:34,600
of explaining to ourselves what 
we're talking about, then we're 

857
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:36,240
not talking about anything that 
can be described as Jewish 

858
00:50:36,240 --> 00:50:38,960
belief. 
This is categorical, 

859
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:45,200
foundational in Gangnam in 
particular, stress in the first 

860
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:50,200
unit of the guide in Chapter 50 
that being able to formulate 

861
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:54,160
something in words is of no 
avail whatsoever if you don't 

862
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,320
understand what it means. 
And I think I should stress here

863
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:03,880
in particular that what Rambam 
employs as the most obvious 

864
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:11,360
illustration of the violation of
this principle is Speaking of 

865
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:16,160
some equation of three and one 
Trinitarian belief. 

866
00:51:17,240 --> 00:51:20,320
Now, I can understand where 
Christians are coming from from 

867
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,400
their perspective, but it's 
definitely not going to be 

868
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:24,840
admissible in Judaism. 
Judaism is not fedeistic. 

869
00:51:25,240 --> 00:51:30,120
The concept of belief in Judaism
necessarily is something that I 

870
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:35,080
can explain and understand. 
And if I can't, if it does not 

871
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:38,680
make sense for me, then it's not
an Annunciation of belief at 

872
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:40,320
all. 
This random states again in the 

873
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:45,280
first unit in chapter 50, but I 
should stress here as perhaps 

874
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:49,240
one of the most important, 
implicit, admittedly not 

875
00:51:49,240 --> 00:51:54,400
explicit, but implicit citations
of this formulation in Rambam 

876
00:51:55,240 --> 00:52:00,600
what Ramban presents at the end 
of the vikoch, that is, at the 

877
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:01,840
end of the Barcelona 
disputation. 

878
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:06,720
Ramban describes in his Ma 
Mahavikoch that the following 

879
00:52:06,720 --> 00:52:11,800
Shabbat, Shabbat Mahamu 1263, 
Public Christianity, Demach 

880
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:16,880
Shimabazukro and his entourage 
come into the main synagogue in 

881
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:21,400
Barcelona, and he starts 
delivering a dissertation. 

882
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:29,840
The darash Binyan has shilush. 
And Ramban cannot keep silent 

883
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:33,360
here, of course, And he 
challenges what this conception 

884
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:40,360
of the Trinity is. 
And after the whole barrage of 

885
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:44,200
Ramban's critique, which is 
enunciated in exquisitely 

886
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:49,160
rational terms, public 
Christianity gets up and he says

887
00:52:49,720 --> 00:52:53,920
he believes in Yehud Gamora, 
complete monotheism. 

888
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:58,080
And nevertheless, yes, 
Boshilouche, there is a Trinity,

889
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:05,840
the Hudaver, A mock and 
something that's so deep that 

890
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:11,720
the malachim and the the 
heavenly officers as the divine 

891
00:53:11,720 --> 00:53:16,680
entourage don't understand gets 
up Rabban and without missing a 

892
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:23,120
beat, it is manifestly clear 
that a person cannot believe, 

893
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:25,720
but he doesn't know. 
So according to you then the 

894
00:53:25,720 --> 00:53:27,280
malakim don't believe in the 
Trinity either. 

895
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:35,720
And two word postscript 
Ushtakuhu Kavirov and his his 

896
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:39,920
Dominican colleagues shut him up
because they realized he was 

897
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:41,600
just making more of a more and 
more of a fool of himself. 

898
00:53:42,240 --> 00:53:44,680
But that's critical. 
Rabban manifestly in this line, 

899
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:47,440
even though he doesn't the 
context didn't allow his saying 

900
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:48,920
I'm getting this from that was 
the point. 

901
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:51,720
The point is manifestly clear, 
but clearly he's appropriating 

902
00:53:51,720 --> 00:53:54,280
the formulation around them. 
You cannot believe something you

903
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:58,080
don't understand, so one way or 
another, you have to be able to 

904
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:00,360
enunciate your beliefs in a 
manner that makes sense to you. 

905
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:01,640
Does that mean proving it? 
Of course not. 

906
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:04,880
But it means sense. 
It means you know what you're 

907
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:05,960
saying. 
Not at all. 

908
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:07,840
Incidentally, and this is a 
critical point to appreciate, 

909
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:12,680
Unit 1, Chapter 50 is a 
critically important piece of 

910
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:17,800
real estate in Types of 
perplexed because chapters one 

911
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:23,200
through 49 are on the subject of
divine incorporeality and 

912
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:29,560
chapters 51 could say 51 that is
the next chapter through 70 on 

913
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:33,280
the subject of divine unity. 
Chapter 50 is the introduction 

914
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:38,160
to the section of divine unity. 
Rama did not feel a need to 

915
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:42,840
insert chapter 50 before chapter
1, because people, at least in 

916
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:45,560
Rama's time, I hope that's still
the case, have enough of an 

917
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:49,680
intuitive sense of what 
incorporeality means to not 

918
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:54,120
adulterated with ideas that are 
manifestly irreconcilable with 

919
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:55,880
incorporeality. 
So he's enunciating the 

920
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:57,960
principle of doing 
incorporeality and applying it, 

921
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:00,240
of course, and understanding how
to read and so on and so forth. 

922
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:02,760
But he doesn't need this 
introduction for the chapters on

923
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:03,960
divine unity. 
He does. 

924
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:12,120
Because let's just say Christian
transparent belief is not the 

925
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:18,800
only example of a statement that
is manifestly in violation of 

926
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:22,320
what we mean by divine unity, 
but could be erroneously 

927
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:26,160
portrayed as divine unity as 
long as you avoid the critical 

928
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:27,880
condition of understanding what 
you're talking about. 

929
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:32,040
So you need to understand what 
you're talking about. 

930
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:33,600
You always need to understand 
what you're talking about. 

931
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:35,320
And if you don't understand what
you're talking about, you are 

932
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:37,640
not talking about anything and 
you don't believe anything. 

933
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:39,600
So we need to make sure we know 
what we're talking about. 

934
00:55:41,240 --> 00:55:45,280
Very well said and OK so I just 
want to get more clarity on what

935
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:49,400
feedeism is and why Judaism for 
our Christian listeners and we 

936
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:53,400
have Noah head listeners as well
to understand why Judaism 

937
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:55,840
rejects the idea of 
incarnationalism. 

938
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:58,760
OK, so first a question of 
definitions. 

939
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:03,560
If I can share a dictionary 
definition of feedeism, reliance

940
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:06,000
on faith alone rather than 
scientific reasoning or 

941
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:11,000
philosophy in questions of 
religion, and till exacerbate 

942
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:17,120
that somewhat further if I can 
share another definition of 

943
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:18,920
phidias in the cast. 
In more in philosophical terms, 

944
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:21,720
it is an epistemological theory 
which maintains that faith is 

945
00:56:21,720 --> 00:56:25,360
independent of reason, or that 
reason and faith are hostile to 

946
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:28,120
each other and faith is superior
at arriving at particular 

947
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:30,800
truths. 
That's a Wikipedia definition of

948
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:37,640
Phidias, and it's important for 
us to appreciate why it is 

949
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:41,480
wholly reasonable for classic 
Christianity to be fedeoistic 

950
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:46,760
and not Judaism, not Torah. 
And perhaps the best way to 

951
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:52,560
present this is by going back to
one of the early church fathers,

952
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:57,000
Tertullian. 
Now I must note that there is a 

953
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:01,800
line that is commonly ascribed 
to Tertullian that is of 

954
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:04,880
uncertain origin and that he 
probably never said, which is, I

955
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:07,640
believe, because it is absurd. 
So that's not going to be now 

956
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:10,720
we're evidence because I'm not 
convinced that the line is in 

957
00:57:10,720 --> 00:57:15,120
any way authentic. 
Simultaneously, if I may quote 

958
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:21,760
from on the flesh of which is a 
composition of Tertullian, the 

959
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:25,040
Son of God was born or 
crucified, depending on the 

960
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:26,840
version of the text. 
There is no shame because it is 

961
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:29,360
shameful the Son of God died. 
It is wholly credible because it

962
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:31,640
is unsound and buried heroes. 
Again, it is certain because 

963
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:35,080
impossible. 
So it's not exactly the same as 

964
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:39,040
I believe because it is absurd, 
but there certainly is a thread 

965
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:42,320
here of antagonism between faith
and reasoning, and embracing 

966
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:46,440
faith over and in opposition to 
reasoning. 

967
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:51,200
To cite one additional statement
from the same composition by 

968
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:53,760
Tertullian, in as much as you 
suppose that it was within your 

969
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:56,360
competence to decide, it can 
only have been that your idea 

970
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:59,000
was that the God nativity is 
either impossible or unseemly. 

971
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:01,120
I answer that the God nothing is
impossible except, but it's 

972
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:03,120
against His will. 
So then we have to consider 

973
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:05,280
whether it was His will to be 
born, because if it was, he both

974
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:07,280
would be, could be, and was 
born. 

975
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:11,000
OK, This is again a classic 
review enunciated by 

976
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:12,680
Christianity. 
We'll still need to consider why

977
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:15,600
we regard this as so 
categorically unacceptable from 

978
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:17,480
the purpose, from the 
perspective of Judaism. 

979
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:23,120
But what it is perhaps most 
directly germane for us to note 

980
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:25,800
here, and I say this 
respectfully, and I've also 

981
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:28,480
shared these thoughts with many 
Christian theologian friends, I 

982
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:31,040
think they've agreed with me, is
that there is in this regard a 

983
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:34,720
critical difference between 
Torah, Judaism, and Christianity

984
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:39,560
in that Christianity from its 
inception always had very much 

985
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:43,280
of A transcendentalist focus. 
Transcendentalist meaning that 

986
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:46,200
this world was really not of any
great significance. 

987
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:48,120
The focus was on the world to 
come. 

988
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:50,480
If the focus is on the world to 
come and you don't really take 

989
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:57,320
this world too seriously, then 
having a set of beliefs that is 

990
00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:01,600
incompatible with your 
conception of the reality of 

991
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:05,200
this world arguably isn't such a
big problem. 

992
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:09,040
Because after all, the focus of 
your attention is on this world.

993
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:13,120
And on some level you could even
say, And it's definitely a view 

994
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:15,520
that is enunciated elsewhere by 
Turtilian and also by others, 

995
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:23,120
that they order. 
The vehemence of your faith is 

996
00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:26,960
tested at the Crucible of your 
embracing beliefs that you 

997
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:29,520
regard as absurd. 
Because this world really 

998
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:34,480
doesn't matter, and all that 
matters is the set of beliefs, 

999
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:38,320
and the set of beliefs needs to 
be consonant with an other 

1000
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:42,520
worldly realm, not this one. 
Again, in classic Christianity, 

1001
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:46,880
to whatever extent Christianity 
is transcendentalist in its 

1002
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:49,480
orientation, that has varied 
over the course of time. 

1003
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:51,960
But nonetheless, to the extent 
that that is from the inception 

1004
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:54,080
of Christianity, a critical 
component to the deadrock of 

1005
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:56,320
Christianity, it works. 
It's not going to work for the 

1006
00:59:56,320 --> 01:00:01,160
Torah. 
The Torah is so categorically 

1007
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:08,680
focused upon this world. 
Even though I can and have given

1008
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:12,960
a full sure on why it is 
impossible to read the Torah 

1009
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:15,760
without the presumption of 
everlasting life, how many 

1010
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:17,120
places does the Torah explicitly
invoke it? 

1011
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:19,920
Zero. 
Why not? 

1012
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:24,000
Maybe the most cognitive answer 
there are several is the one 

1013
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:26,200
that implicitly arises in 
Cephora Kwosuri. 

1014
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:30,720
It doesn't because talking about
another world would be a 

1015
01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:33,640
distraction. 
All that matters as long as you 

1016
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:37,080
are in this world is what you 
are doing in this world, and 

1017
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:40,840
otherworldly spirituality is a 
distraction from spirituality of

1018
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:44,880
this world that needs to be 
coherent with this world. 

1019
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:51,120
So what can fly in Christianity?
Again, we can respect as within 

1020
01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:54,080
the rubric of Christianity. 
I'll note that Rabiu da Levi 

1021
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:56,480
does not in any way, anywhere 
it's ever, because I read, 

1022
01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:01,400
explicitly come out 
antagonistically with respect to

1023
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:07,320
Christian beliefs, and presents 
them fairly fairly coherently in

1024
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:09,240
the statement of the Christian 
in the beginning of Sephir 

1025
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:11,760
Coseri. 
That's not going to be our set 

1026
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:14,000
of beliefs because that's not 
what terrorists teach. 

1027
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:19,080
Us So being that you just 
explained that Judaism is not a 

1028
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:25,840
phidistic religion, how would 
that play into the philosophical

1029
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:28,320
ideas of can God do the 
impossible? 

1030
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:33,600
OK, of course, an excellent 
question, and undoubtedly the 

1031
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:37,000
first place that we should begin
here is with Rambam. 

1032
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:42,600
This is an idea that Rambam 
enunciates at great length in 

1033
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:46,680
the guide. 
I'll stress in particular unit 2

1034
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:52,240
chapter 13, but even more so 
Unit 3 chapter 15, where Rambam 

1035
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:55,040
unequivocally annunciates that 
that which is a logical 

1036
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:59,680
impossibility is impossible, 
meaning it's not real. 

1037
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:04,880
So if you believe that God is 
real, then you believe that he 

1038
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:09,880
can't be unreal in doing that 
which is excluded from reality 

1039
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:11,880
because it is a logical fallacy,
a logical falsity. 

1040
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:16,840
Another one quickly states this 
again in these two chapters, 

1041
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:22,160
especially in unit 3 chapter 15,
when I'm going to stress, and 

1042
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:25,000
this is an idea that is 
particularly enunciated by 

1043
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:30,680
Rambam in the latter in unit 3 
chapter 15, Islam himself leaves

1044
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:37,760
something of a domain of 
ambiguity open, gaping. 

1045
01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:41,960
I wonder whether this gate of 
research is open so that all may

1046
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:44,360
freely enter. 
And whilst 1 imagines a thing 

1047
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:46,840
and considers it possible, 
another is at liberty to assert 

1048
01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:48,920
that such a thing is impossible 
by its very nature. 

1049
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:51,560
Or whether the gate is closed 
and guarded by certain rules so 

1050
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:54,200
that we are able to decide with 
certainty whether a thing is 

1051
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:57,920
physically impossible. 
Let's see Friedland translation,

1052
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:00,440
which I I think is apartment. 
Just understanding what Rambam 

1053
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:04,880
is getting at here, and the the 
thrust of the distinction that 

1054
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:10,160
Rambam attempts to draw but 
still is admittedly uncertain 

1055
01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:12,280
with respect to the exact 
placement of the line of 

1056
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:17,960
demarcation, is that a logical 
impossibility is unequivocally 

1057
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:21,720
impossible for God as well. 
It is impossible that God should

1058
01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:25,600
produce a being like himself. 
Well, it's impossible because 

1059
01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:29,720
God is unconditional reality, 
self mandated existence. 

1060
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:32,640
Anything created is not. 
So by definition God cannot do 

1061
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:35,800
something like himself or an I 
like to purify or change himself

1062
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:38,080
because that which is self 
mandated existence cannot be any

1063
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:40,160
of those. 
The power of God is not assumed 

1064
01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:41,840
to extend to any of these 
impossibilities. 

1065
01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:49,520
So logical impossibilities 
unequivocally bound reality 

1066
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:55,840
simultaneously physical 
impossibilities, if you will, a 

1067
01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:59,160
violation of the law of 
conservation of energy, we don't

1068
01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:01,640
regard as categorical 
impossibilities because we don't

1069
01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:02,800
believe in the possibility of 
miracles. 

1070
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:05,920
There's an author of of nature. 
He is a sovereign over nature 

1071
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:07,440
and therefore miracles can take 
place. 

1072
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:11,040
Exactly what the what the 
dynamism of miracles is is a 

1073
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:12,560
more complex question. 
I've already intimated that 

1074
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:15,640
Rebbutalevi considers more than 
one possibility in the first 

1075
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:19,400
mammoths ever, because already 
in section 89 Rambam likewise 

1076
01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:22,160
has something of a complex view 
of matters. 

1077
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:26,600
We touched on this in our 
previous session together, 

1078
01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:30,840
great, back in Rambam in the 
second unit of the guide in 

1079
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:32,720
chapter 29. 
We obviously aren't going to 

1080
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:36,240
rehash that territory at 
present, but what we'll note, 

1081
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:42,080
certainly as presumptive in this
arena is that which is to our 

1082
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:45,760
minds of physical impossibility,
simply betrays our limitedness 

1083
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:50,320
in that to which we are or are 
not accustomed and doesn't 

1084
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:53,040
necessarily constitute A 
categorical impossibility. 

1085
01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:55,000
A logical impossibility 
functions on a different plane. 

1086
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:58,640
Rama unequivocally argues that 
logical impossibilities are 

1087
01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:01,000
categorically impossible for God
as well. 

1088
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:06,520
And this definitely is a view 
that we see enunciated among the

1089
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:08,840
Richonim. 
Simultaneously, I'd like to 

1090
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:12,880
share proposition. 
I'm sharing it tenuously. 

1091
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:18,600
I can't state unequivocally that
what I'm about to say is indeed 

1092
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:23,120
the meaning of the passages I'm 
about to cite, even though I 

1093
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:27,160
inclined in this direction in 
the two passages in Sepfrakosari

1094
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:31,280
in which Rabiu da Lebi most 
directly addresses this .1 we 

1095
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:36,320
already mentioned in the first 
treatise in section 89, the 

1096
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:39,280
other in the first section in 
section 67. 

1097
01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:44,400
In I should let me let me recast
that in the first treatise in 

1098
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:52,200
Section 67. 
In both of them there is a turn 

1099
01:05:52,200 --> 01:05:56,200
of phrase that Rabiudalevi 
employs as vindicated in all the

1100
01:05:56,200 --> 01:05:58,000
translations, even if they're 
not being the Arabic itself. 

1101
01:05:58,680 --> 01:06:02,720
That I think we need to consider
at greater length in the 

1102
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:09,840
formulation in the first 
treatise in Section 67, when 

1103
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:12,280
Rabiudalevi is addressing the 
question of the extent to which 

1104
01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:14,960
we need to feel beholden to 
Aristotle. 

1105
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:21,040
What he states is khalila la El 
shtava torabenashi de hege ayah.

1106
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:25,320
O Moffett, God forbid we should 
believe that the Torah should 

1107
01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:33,560
include encompass that which 
ayah reasonable evidence Moffett

1108
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:38,200
logical syllogism dictates. 
He goes on to employ precisely 

1109
01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:41,080
the same distinction that Rahman
does, that with respect to 

1110
01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:44,480
miracles and transmutation of 
physical nature. 

1111
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:47,720
That's not a problem because 
it's simply betrays our own 

1112
01:06:47,720 --> 01:06:50,320
limitedness in that to which we 
are accustomed. 

1113
01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:54,080
But there won't be anything in 
the Torah that flies in the face

1114
01:06:54,080 --> 01:06:56,560
of logic. 
And in very similar terms we 

1115
01:06:56,560 --> 01:07:00,360
already noted in the first 
treatise in Section 89, Khalila 

1116
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:03,120
El miyasheke, Masha sekhal 
Mihasheke. 

1117
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:08,520
God forbid that we believe in 
that which is false or that 

1118
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:10,320
which the intellect rejects in 
regards as false. 

1119
01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:12,520
And of course, inevitably, the 
turn of phrase I'm going to 

1120
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:17,800
stress in both of these 
citations is God forbid, a turn 

1121
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:21,000
of phrase that, needless to 
know, is conspicuously lacking 

1122
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:26,040
in Rambam's formulation as well.
In Rambam's formulation, it 

1123
01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:28,720
should be lacking. 
After all, would you ever say 

1124
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:30,360
God forbid, 1 + 1 should equal 
3? 

1125
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:35,200
No, 1 + 1 doesn't equal 3. 
There's not God forbid about it.

1126
01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:37,120
It's something that is 
categorically false, remains 

1127
01:07:37,120 --> 01:07:38,480
false, and you're not saying God
forbid about it. 

1128
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:42,240
And the fact that Rbidoli does 
invite this possibility, that 

1129
01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:46,640
Rbidoli may be giving us a more 
nuanced perspective with respect

1130
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:50,160
to impossibilities and 
conceivably even including 

1131
01:07:50,200 --> 01:07:53,640
logical impossibilities, because
Khalil applies to the both. 

1132
01:07:54,480 --> 01:08:00,760
Namely, we don't have the way 
with all to be able to clearly 

1133
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:07,400
enunciate what is or is not 
within the realm of divine Ken 

1134
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:12,640
because God is beyond our Ken. 
And to that extent, can we 

1135
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:16,800
categorically state that our 
understanding of logic limits 

1136
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:19,359
God? 
No, we certainly can't ascribe 

1137
01:08:19,359 --> 01:08:22,920
to God. 
What we understand is logically 

1138
01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:25,319
an impossibility. 
But we can't state that this is 

1139
01:08:25,319 --> 01:08:28,080
something that necessarily 
circumscribes the realm of the 

1140
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:31,040
divine in the same categorical 
terms that Rahman would use. 

1141
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:35,319
But what we can state is the 
Torah would never ask us to 

1142
01:08:35,319 --> 01:08:38,040
believe such a thing. 
And this, if anything, is an 

1143
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:40,720
even more critical statement 
because what essentially is what

1144
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:43,319
we believe is stating. 
I'll argue what he's stating is 

1145
01:08:43,319 --> 01:08:45,000
precisely what we said just a 
few moments ago. 

1146
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:48,680
That in as much as the whole 
orientation of Torah is 

1147
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:55,520
spirituality in this world, God,
the Torah would never place us 

1148
01:08:55,880 --> 01:09:02,600
in the intolerable position of 
having to live in a tension of 

1149
01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:04,840
our conception of reality and 
our conception of our faith 

1150
01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:08,600
being mutually exclusive. 
That won't work in Judaism. 

1151
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:09,840
Again, it could work in 
Christianity. 

1152
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:11,680
It can't work in Judaism. 
You can't work on the Torah. 

1153
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:14,040
The Torah is all about how we 
live in this world, and you 

1154
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:17,600
can't have a belief system that 
is going to serve as your guide 

1155
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:21,680
for how to live in this world 
that is excluded by being in 

1156
01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:26,200
this world. 
So no, nothing in Torah is a 

1157
01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:29,960
logical impossibility, either 
because as Rama imposite, 

1158
01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:33,120
because that which is logical 
impossibility is patently unreal

1159
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:37,399
and our beliefs are real, or 
because God would never demand 

1160
01:09:37,399 --> 01:09:42,399
of us believing in something 
that could not confort with our 

1161
01:09:42,399 --> 01:09:44,760
conception of reality. 
But then why? 

1162
01:09:44,800 --> 01:09:46,800
But then why? 
But then some might say, then 

1163
01:09:46,800 --> 01:09:50,399
why does the Torah employee 
like, for instance, Al Ramsingh 

1164
01:09:50,399 --> 01:09:52,399
the angels? 
Yes, it needs to be 

1165
01:09:52,399 --> 01:09:55,440
interpretation and we do that, 
but if the Torah doesn't want 

1166
01:09:55,440 --> 01:10:00,360
that, then why give room for it?
No, because again, we can 

1167
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:03,600
unequivocally understand that 
that's precisely what Rampan 

1168
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:07,360
stresses at the end of that very
long comment at the beginning of

1169
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:09,360
we have an alternative way of 
looking at things. 

1170
01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:11,160
That alternative way of looking 
at things is one that Rambam 

1171
01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:16,480
definitely rejects. 
But what Ramban proposes is that

1172
01:10:16,640 --> 01:10:19,480
even as malachim are 
categorically incorporeal 

1173
01:10:19,480 --> 01:10:23,200
intellects, there is this 
concept that exists in Kabbalah 

1174
01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:26,840
and unequivocally does not exist
in Rambam, that an incorporeal 

1175
01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:31,680
intellect can take on a physical
garb, if you will, in the same 

1176
01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:34,120
sense that the puppeteer 
operates the puppet, so you 

1177
01:10:34,160 --> 01:10:35,000
don't. 
See the Puppeteer. 

1178
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:36,640
Because the puppeteer is Bond, 
then it doesn't become 

1179
01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:38,400
impossible in the realm of 
exactly exactly. 

1180
01:10:38,440 --> 01:10:40,640
And, and it's important for us 
to stress this point because 

1181
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:42,480
Ramban is not going to say, 
well, we're not going to have a 

1182
01:10:42,480 --> 01:10:43,960
problem because we can believe 
in nonsense. 

1183
01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:46,760
No, Ramban has to give you a 
cogent formulation. 

1184
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:48,800
Even if it's not going to be a 
formulation that's acceptable to

1185
01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:50,720
Rambam, it's a cogent 
formulation to say this such a 

1186
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:55,120
thing as Lavouche. 
Excellent. 

1187
01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:57,040
So if you. 
Couldn't have that formulation, 

1188
01:10:57,880 --> 01:11:01,280
You have a problem because then 
again, Rambani, after all, is 

1189
01:11:01,280 --> 01:11:04,400
the one who appropriates 
Ramban's formulation in the 

1190
01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:08,440
first unit, Chapter 50, lock, 
stock and barrel, in going to 

1191
01:11:08,440 --> 01:11:12,320
battle against Pablo Christiani 
and his band of Dominicans. 

1192
01:11:12,680 --> 01:11:17,040
And it's important for us to 
appreciate what Ramban's agenda 

1193
01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:21,640
there is and the extent to which
we necessarily must resonate 

1194
01:11:21,640 --> 01:11:25,360
with that agenda today. 
On the one hand, from Ramban's 

1195
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:29,160
perspective, do we necessarily 
have the wherewithal to 

1196
01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:31,000
understand everything in the 
rambles of the divine? 

1197
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:32,840
No, and according to Rambam, we 
do. 

1198
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:35,480
Of course not. 
Rambam emphasizes this point in 

1199
01:11:35,480 --> 01:11:39,000
the lesson Ramban. 
Just consider Rambam in the 

1200
01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:44,480
first unit of the guide in 
chapter 32 in warning the reader

1201
01:11:44,480 --> 01:11:48,240
against the fallacy of thinking 
you have not prove you have 

1202
01:11:48,240 --> 01:11:50,640
proven what you have not proven 
and what you are unable to 

1203
01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:52,440
prove, or thinking you have 
disproven what you cannot 

1204
01:11:52,440 --> 01:11:54,400
disprove. 
Recognizing the limitations and 

1205
01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:56,960
not exceeding them, recognizing 
that their ideas that are beyond

1206
01:11:56,960 --> 01:11:59,000
their can random understands 
that full well. 

1207
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:06,400
But simultaneously, there are 
beliefs that we can coherently 

1208
01:12:06,440 --> 01:12:10,520
articulate as nonsensical and 
those we will never be summoned 

1209
01:12:10,520 --> 01:12:12,800
by the Torah to believe. 
And that is categorical. 

1210
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:16,440
And that indeed summarizes in a 
nutshell the distinction between

1211
01:12:16,600 --> 01:12:20,360
beliefs that in Christian 
transcendentalism are possible 

1212
01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:24,360
and beliefs that in torrid 
Judaism are not and will never 

1213
01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:26,520
be. 
So the miracles in in and of 

1214
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:27,720
itself is not doesn't play 
intent. 

1215
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:30,440
Miracles aren't the problem. 
If the miracle a miracle is a 

1216
01:12:30,440 --> 01:12:34,120
miracle, there's no issue here. 
Again, the the the realization 

1217
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:36,440
that a physical impossibility 
ultimately is not an 

1218
01:12:36,440 --> 01:12:38,520
impossibility is a reflection of
that to which we are accustomed,

1219
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:40,840
that and and that to which we 
are unaccustomed. 

1220
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:44,680
In the same vein altogether that
obviously science undergoes 

1221
01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:48,120
revolutions when there is an 
accumulation of body of evidence

1222
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:52,560
that does not jive with the 
existing paradigm for 

1223
01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:54,640
understanding the science. 
And it's the whole foundation of

1224
01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:56,520
Thomas Kuhns The Structure of 
Scientific Revolutions. 

1225
01:12:57,000 --> 01:12:59,040
Yes, we recognize that there 
there are a phenomena that we 

1226
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:02,360
don't understand and that will 
defy our faceted understanding. 

1227
01:13:02,360 --> 01:13:05,920
Obviously the case of the 
supplanting of one scientific 

1228
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:08,520
paradigm by another is a purely 
natural process. 

1229
01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:11,240
Natural in the sense that we 
aren't talking about something 

1230
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:13,760
miraculous taking place. 
A miracle is a different story, 

1231
01:13:14,680 --> 01:13:16,360
as we noted. 
We discussed this, of course, in

1232
01:13:16,360 --> 01:13:19,160
our last segment, A Miracles 
from M's perspective, can be 

1233
01:13:19,160 --> 01:13:23,040
subsumed within the rules of 
nature, but they still are, from

1234
01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:25,600
our perspective, categorically 
anomalous. 

1235
01:13:25,880 --> 01:13:28,480
We don't understand how they are
natural phenomena, even if on 

1236
01:13:28,480 --> 01:13:32,280
some level they are Physical 
impossibilities are not really 

1237
01:13:32,280 --> 01:13:35,080
impossibilities from R.E.M.'s 
perspective. 

1238
01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:38,320
We will state that if we can 
understand something to be 

1239
01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:41,240
illogical, it remains illogical 
because that bounds reality. 

1240
01:13:41,240 --> 01:13:43,200
Period. 
From Rabbi Delhi's perspective. 

1241
01:13:43,200 --> 01:13:44,800
Again, I'm saying this 
conjecturally because I have no 

1242
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:47,920
basis for definitively stating 
that this is Rabbi Delhi's 

1243
01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:49,880
perspective as opposed to that 
of Rambam. 

1244
01:13:50,200 --> 01:13:54,200
But again, the the turn of 
phrase khaliwala El leads me to 

1245
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:57,800
this proposition that Rabbi Eli 
would would say, yeah, holy oath

1246
01:13:57,800 --> 01:14:00,960
could be, but the Torah would 
still never ask us to believe in

1247
01:14:00,960 --> 01:14:03,160
such a thing because it is 
irreconcilable with our 

1248
01:14:03,160 --> 01:14:06,080
conception of reality. 
And our conception of reality is

1249
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:09,720
the critical, undergirding the 
critical basis of our Abu 

1250
01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:11,240
Dhatashem. 
And again, it's of course 

1251
01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:14,480
critical for us to remember 
Avodah Tashan serving God. 

1252
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:17,840
That connection. 
Through our lives is the goal of

1253
01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:19,600
all this. 
We aren't armchair philosophers 

1254
01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:24,440
engaging in abstract cogitation,
and the avodah necessarily 

1255
01:14:24,440 --> 01:14:27,640
entails having a belief system 
that is coherent with that 

1256
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:29,560
realm, which is this world in 
which we are engaging in that 

1257
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:31,320
avodah. 
Right. 

1258
01:14:31,320 --> 01:14:33,560
So, so I think that the point 
that you've been making and we 

1259
01:14:33,560 --> 01:14:36,320
appreciate so much all the time 
that you've put into elaborating

1260
01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:39,760
all this, I think that the 
approach that you have been 

1261
01:14:39,760 --> 01:14:45,960
giving here is instead of trying
to answer questions technically 

1262
01:14:46,240 --> 01:14:50,680
or via, you know, pound for 
pound, logic for logic, yes, no,

1263
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:54,480
maybe the approach that you've 
been giving today is, is that 

1264
01:14:54,480 --> 01:14:57,960
it's a matter of the focus and, 
and what our religion focuses 

1265
01:14:57,960 --> 01:15:00,680
on, right. 
So when it comes to can God do 

1266
01:15:00,680 --> 01:15:02,440
the impossible? 
Maybe, maybe not. 

1267
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:05,520
But what I think you've been 
saying is it's irrelevant 

1268
01:15:05,680 --> 01:15:13,160
because the Torah has a a, a, a,
a wants us to be able to use 

1269
01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:17,800
Sehel in order to connect to 
God, not to erase our sehel in 

1270
01:15:17,800 --> 01:15:21,080
order to connect to God. 
And therefore trying to answer 

1271
01:15:21,080 --> 01:15:24,240
this question is sort of not the
point, which is what you're 

1272
01:15:24,240 --> 01:15:26,320
trying to get at. 
I believe it's not the point to 

1273
01:15:26,320 --> 01:15:29,600
try to get into that tick for 
tat on a, on a academic level of

1274
01:15:29,600 --> 01:15:32,680
whether it's possible or not 
possible, but rather what does 

1275
01:15:32,680 --> 01:15:35,520
Torah want of us? 
And then how should we approach 

1276
01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:39,720
it regardless of, of, of where 
the academics plays out or 

1277
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:42,920
doesn't play out? 
And I think that's a, it's a 

1278
01:15:42,920 --> 01:15:45,720
very important approach. 
It's a very important point. 

1279
01:15:46,240 --> 01:15:48,920
I hope that the listeners 
understood that. 

1280
01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:53,000
And, and for sure we, this, 
this, everything needs to be 

1281
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:55,760
continued in a sense. 
And, and I'm sure we'll get to 

1282
01:15:55,760 --> 01:15:57,960
it. 
But but I wanted to just just to

1283
01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:01,600
just to wrap it up with that in 
terms of to try to put into a 

1284
01:16:01,600 --> 01:16:05,120
few sentences what I consider to
be the main ideas that you were 

1285
01:16:05,120 --> 01:16:08,240
giving out from if. 
If I if I may just this this 

1286
01:16:08,240 --> 01:16:13,120
eval any credit for that, to 
whatever extent I have, I hope, 

1287
01:16:13,440 --> 01:16:14,960
succeeded in conveying that 
point of emphasis. 

1288
01:16:15,240 --> 01:16:21,560
It is solidly simply as a humble
student of the Rishonim is we 

1289
01:16:21,720 --> 01:16:23,320
always have to keep our eyes on 
the ball and they did. 

1290
01:16:24,480 --> 01:16:27,280
I'm going to reiterate what to 
me is just such a foundational 

1291
01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:29,680
point that the Rishonim never 
wrote works of abstract 

1292
01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:31,960
philosophy. 
All the works of philosophy are 

1293
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:35,320
as means to advancing us in our 
Abu Dhatashan. 

1294
01:16:36,120 --> 01:16:41,160
That Sehel necessarily plays a 
critical role is something that 

1295
01:16:41,160 --> 01:16:44,320
none of the regional name at all
would reject. 

1296
01:16:45,240 --> 01:16:48,320
That's just a case in point. 
Rabi Hudalevi in the third Namar

1297
01:16:48,320 --> 01:16:52,080
of Sephirozari in section 19 and
considering the order of the 

1298
01:16:52,440 --> 01:16:55,240
supplications of the Amidah, 
notes the first supplication 

1299
01:16:55,240 --> 01:16:59,840
pertains to say hell and 
understanding in our service of 

1300
01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:04,800
God, because through them a 
person is able to come closer to

1301
01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:07,720
God. 
Obviously that that perspective 

1302
01:17:07,760 --> 01:17:13,840
is axiomatic and fundamental in 
Rambam is a point that is so 

1303
01:17:13,960 --> 01:17:17,640
clear it would almost be an 
insult to elaborate upon it. 

1304
01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:19,520
Because it's so obvious it's 
also joined Rambam. 

1305
01:17:20,040 --> 01:17:23,280
There's the emphasis in unsafe 
in Rambam, clearly foundational,

1306
01:17:23,640 --> 01:17:26,320
has a lot to do also with his 
whole veltenchong and has an 

1307
01:17:26,360 --> 01:17:29,560
understanding of the Torah the 
the role that even Ezra's 

1308
01:17:29,640 --> 01:17:32,560
commentary plays for him as the 
second most frequently quoted 

1309
01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:34,000
commentator in his parish of the
Torah. 

1310
01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:35,920
Obviously there's something upon
which we can elaborate at far, 

1311
01:17:35,920 --> 01:17:38,480
far greater length, but 
certainly for our purposes, the 

1312
01:17:38,480 --> 01:17:41,240
critical bottom line is to keep 
the eye on the ball, to 

1313
01:17:41,240 --> 01:17:44,920
recognize that we are coming 
into Arabo dadashem as the Bali 

1314
01:17:44,920 --> 01:17:46,880
Sekhal that God has created us 
to be. 

1315
01:17:47,520 --> 01:17:48,880
That's not to say that we're 
only Bali circle. 

1316
01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:50,840
That's not to say that intellect
is the beyond end all of 

1317
01:17:50,840 --> 01:17:52,400
existence. 
There may be different views, 

1318
01:17:52,400 --> 01:17:56,040
legitimate different views on 
that subject, but but we never 

1319
01:17:56,280 --> 01:18:01,040
ever toss out circle like the 
the trash. 

1320
01:18:01,400 --> 01:18:05,360
It's something that will always 
signify, from our perspective, 

1321
01:18:06,160 --> 01:18:11,200
on the lapse of the Rishonim 
critical bedrock upon which we 

1322
01:18:11,200 --> 01:18:14,080
stand in our Abu Dah, in our 
divine service. 

1323
01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:16,080
Thank you so much. 
Thank you. 

1324
01:18:16,080 --> 01:18:18,440
This was amazing. 
This was amazing. 

1325
01:18:18,440 --> 01:18:20,400
Rabbi Eisen, really you're, 
you're unbelievable. 

1326
01:18:20,400 --> 01:18:23,640
We really just we hope that we 
can have you on again. 

1327
01:18:23,640 --> 01:18:27,800
And we want to urge our viewers 
to check out your channel. 

1328
01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:29,920
If you could just quickly plug 
your your YouTube channel. 

1329
01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:34,440
Jewish Philosophy matters. 
YouTube channel Jewish 

1330
01:18:34,440 --> 01:18:36,000
Philosophy Matters. 
And of course, that's a double 

1331
01:18:36,000 --> 01:18:39,520
entendre, and I hope we are able
to to actualize matters as both 

1332
01:18:39,520 --> 01:18:41,520
a noun and a verb. 
Amen. 

1333
01:18:41,520 --> 01:18:42,560
Thank you very much. 
Appreciate it. 

1334
01:18:42,560 --> 01:18:42,880
Thank you.