1 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:10,160 Welcome to Judaism, Demystified, a podcast for the perplexed. 2 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:13,200 We are joined once again by Professor Jeffrey Rubenstein. 3 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,960 Professor Rubenstein is doing a three-part series on Alicia 4 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:20,400 Benabuya, otherwise known as Achar, on this podcast. 5 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,240 The previous episode, Episode 80, was the first part of this 6 00:00:24,240 --> 00:00:27,600 series. It was the stories of Alicia 7 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:31,520 Benabuya in the Tosefta. In this episode we're going to 8 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,840 be discussing Alicia Benabuya in the Shami tradition. 9 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:47,120 So without further ado, Professor Rubenstein, thank you 10 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,240 for joining the Judaism Demystified podcast. 11 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:53,000 So this is Part 2 of the series on Alicia Benavuya with 12 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,920 Professor Jeffrey Rubenstein. Professor, Take it Away. 13 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:00,880 OK, thanks. So in in this Part 2 we're 14 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:06,280 continuing the exploration of the figure of Alicia Benavuya in 15 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,360 the rabbinic sources here in the Urushami. 16 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:14,400 Last time we part one, we looked at the first in the original 17 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,920 source of Alicia Benavuya's life, which is a very cryptic 18 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:22,520 passage in the Tosefta. It was had to do with mysticism 19 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:24,320 and this form of early mysticism. 20 00:01:24,320 --> 00:01:28,560 Heikhalo der Merkava mysticism and the Tosefta itself was very 21 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:34,200 hard to understand, but it seemed even more that the the 22 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,200 Tosefta wasn't understood by the rabbis in the times of the 23 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,960 Urshami or the Bavli. They took it in slightly 24 00:01:39,960 --> 00:01:43,560 different directions and in a very interesting way they 25 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:48,400 interpreted the Tosefta to generate events in the life of 26 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,640 Alicia Benavuya. So this is, this kind of thing 27 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:56,880 is much more common in Midrash, where verses in the Torah are 28 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:00,280 elaborated on, or the stories of the Torah are interpreted to 29 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:02,840 generate more stories about the biblical characters. 30 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,640 It's very rare in rabbinic sources, but that seems to be 31 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:10,720 what happened now that gave part of the stories in the Urushami 32 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,040 and in the Boboli two different stories about Alician Venezuela. 33 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,080 And we're going to continue now with the rest of the story in 34 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,520 the Urushami, which I'm actually going to argue is a different 35 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:22,240 story. They're really two different 36 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:24,600 stories in the Urushami, although sometimes they're 37 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:26,840 conflated. So I'm going to get the text up 38 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,040 here and we'll follow along with this text. 39 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,840 Here we go. OK, so this, this is the text in 40 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:44,440 your Xiaomi in in English. And just to give us a brief 41 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:48,760 overview, it's it's it really divides itself into five parts. 42 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:58,120 You can see part A, this is going to be Part B, CD and E and 43 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:02,480 one thing we should appreciate is that this is this story in 44 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:07,320 the Urshami is I think the most highly developed rabbinic story 45 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:11,520 in all of the Urshami. It's among the longest, and I 46 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,840 think it's the most sophisticated from a literary 47 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,320 point of view, from a narrative art point of view. 48 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,600 Now why that is I'm not sure, other than the fact that the 49 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,640 Rabbis were apparently very interested in the story and 50 00:03:23,640 --> 00:03:26,720 worked over it and worked over it such that it became a real 51 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,720 gem. We don't really have statistics 52 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,400 on the length of stories in either the Babli V or Xiaomi. 53 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:36,240 No one's looked at that yet. It's a good topic if anybody 54 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:40,080 wants to, to go into it. But again by my judgement I 55 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,480 think this is is probably the longest or certainly among the 56 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:47,440 top few stories in terms of length in the Urushami and 57 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,040 really kind of the heights of rabbinic storytelling. 58 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,720 So. So to get right into it Part A 59 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:56,960 is actually what I call here. Part A is actually what we 60 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,880 looked at last time. That is, this is the Urushami 61 00:03:59,960 --> 00:04:03,400 interpretation of the Tosefta. You can see right at the top 62 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:07,040 here, it says Akhar gazed and cut the shoots, which is a 63 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:11,040 citation from the Tosefta. And then you have what we we 64 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,160 dealt with last time, the Yurashami interpreting the 65 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:17,040 Tosefta to generate this one story about Alicia and a very, 66 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,120 very negative story. In this story, he kills young 67 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:25,520 students of Torah, and he also advises persecutors how to force 68 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:30,200 Jews to violate the Sabbath. So he's construed in a very, 69 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,000 very negative way. And I emphasize this because 70 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:37,160 we'll see in this story, we'll look at now the continuation of 71 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,400 the Yurashami. He's not portrayed in quite as 72 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,640 negative a way and I think this is one of the indications that 73 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:48,520 we really have two separate stories, even though biographers 74 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:53,440 who take these stories as biographically accurate 75 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,240 traditions or more or less accurate traditions tend to 76 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,600 conflate them. You know, they say they see them 77 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:03,600 as two sources about the real life of Alicia, Benabuja and 78 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,160 acid Driven Leaf. And other people who kind of 79 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,400 take these sources more historically or biographically 80 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,240 are forced to put these together in a very awkward way. 81 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:16,200 But if we understand that these are not biographical traditions, 82 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:19,240 these are rabbinic didactic fictions. 83 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:21,080 These are meant to teach lessons. 84 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,920 And you know, really they might have a historical kernel, that 85 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:25,880 they're not biography in our sense of the term. 86 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,920 We can understand that different people told different stories 87 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,840 about Alicia in different ways, and they don't necessarily go 88 00:05:31,840 --> 00:05:36,320 back to any historical persona. And anyway, what we saw about 89 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:38,520 Part A was that it's not historical, it's an 90 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,880 interpretation of Sosefta. So that that should totally free 91 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,080 us from this problem. But you can see the end of Part 92 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:52,960 A actually concludes right here with the last part of the 93 00:05:53,280 --> 00:05:56,200 Tosefta. Rabbi Akiba entered in peace and 94 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,880 went down in peace about him. Scripture says, draw me after 95 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:01,560 you. So the Yerushalmes makes very 96 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:05,920 clear that this source is over. You know, it goes on to the next 97 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,320 section of the Tosefta, the quotation about Rebbe Akiba. 98 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,200 And that's all Tosefta, you know, it's not a continuous 99 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,200 narrative before we get to Part B. 100 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,360 So I probably shouldn't have even called this Part B except 101 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,360 that I was dealing with this whole text. 102 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,440 This should be, you know, up above. 103 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:24,800 I should have called it one, and then I should have called this 104 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,200 Section 2. But that's how I did it. 105 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,560 So that's how I have it here. But the point is that we had one 106 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:34,120 totally separate story, and now we're getting into a different 107 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,840 story that the Urshami tells. Far more interesting one about 108 00:06:37,840 --> 00:06:40,480 Alisha Benabuya. Now, the source of this story is 109 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:42,640 unclear. The source of that first story 110 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,160 was the Tosefta. The source of this, the source 111 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:46,560 of this story, we just don't know. 112 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:51,440 So that is a bit of an enigma. You know, apparently they had 113 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,680 other traditions about him and we just can't trace the those 114 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:58,760 back past the Urushami. So we'll look at this story and 115 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:00,760 we'll just try to understand it on its own terms. 116 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,920 That is, what is the story that Yurashami's telling and what are 117 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,000 they trying to accomplish by telling this story Now, just to 118 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,400 give you my thesis or just so we sort of have an overview before 119 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,440 we work through the whole story. What I think is going on in this 120 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:17,880 story is that Yurashami is actually dealing with a 121 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,920 theological problem that troubled the rabbi, so that they 122 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,680 were interested in it. And that theological problem or 123 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:32,320 sort of series of theological questions issues was is the 124 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:38,800 merit that you earned from the study of Torah absolute or can 125 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,760 it be lost? Can it be counteracted? 126 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:47,160 That is, if you sin, do you lose your merits for study Torah? 127 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,480 I mean in general we think of on Yom Kippur, you do good deeds, 128 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:54,920 you do meets vote, you get some merit, you do sins, you get some 129 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,560 you know punishments. And these kind of are balanced 130 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,280 off and in the end to see if you're a good person or not a 131 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:03,640 good person. But Torah for the rabbis had 132 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:07,920 such incredible status, they sort of believed that the they 133 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,560 had trouble believing you could really lose the merit of Torah 134 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,920 or they were they were interested in that question. 135 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:17,000 Is it like sort of other meets vote or could you really if you 136 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,840 sinned enough, would you lose that merit for studying Torah? 137 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,200 Or to put this in slightly different terms, could you have 138 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:31,320 a person who is a great master of Torah, a great rabbi, and yet 139 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,679 was a Sinner? Because the Torah itself was 140 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,440 supposed to give you merit, like it was supposed to protect you 141 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,280 from sin? If you knew a great deal of 142 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,000 Torah, you knew God's power, you knew the greatness of Torah. 143 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:43,919 How could you possibly be a Sinner? 144 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,120 I mean that that's the way they, you know, at least one stream of 145 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,000 thought. On the other hand, you know, 146 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,760 they might have known people who were great small collars of 147 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:55,840 Torah and they threw it away. I mean, we ourselves probably 148 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:57,760 know people like that. They lost faith. 149 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:00,840 You know, they went astray in one way or another. 150 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,200 In the Middle Ages, we know they were rabbis, great scholars of 151 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,160 Torah converted for various reasons. 152 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:08,520 You know, so the rabbis are interested in this question. 153 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:11,200 So what What they what they're doing throughout the story to 154 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,520 give us a kind of bird's eye view from the beginning is 155 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,920 constructing someone it was a great master of Torah but is 156 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:21,840 also a Sinner. And then trying to figure out 157 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,400 what happens to him. Does the sin counteract the 158 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:27,040 Torah? Does the Torah outweigh the sin? 159 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:31,480 What happens in the end? Does he get olam haba, the world 160 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,400 to come, or does he lose his portion there? 161 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:36,760 Yeah. OK, so when you're saying 162 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:43,200 constructing the source of Lucia Benavuya in general is in the 163 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:47,200 Tosefta so that you're so. So when you say constructing, 164 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,520 you're not, you don't mean necessarily constructing the 165 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,760 entire thing from scratch, but basically constructing the 166 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:58,520 existing Tosefta in a way that shapes their more immediate 167 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:03,520 theological conundrums that they're trying to shed light on. 168 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,720 Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, I think here they are 169 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,360 actually departing from the Tosefta completely. 170 00:10:09,680 --> 00:10:13,440 There seems to be very, very little connection between what 171 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:18,560 we saw before and the way Alicia is portrayed in the Tosefta, the 172 00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:22,040 Yurasami's interpretation of the Tosefta, and this story. 173 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:26,640 The one thing that they do take is the fact that you had a 174 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:28,720 rabbinic figure who did something. 175 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:30,840 Terrible. Uh huh. 176 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,280 OK, it's it's that way. Then you just say gotcha. 177 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:36,040 Gotcha. So now they, they say, OK, we 178 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,680 have this idea there's a, there's a rabbinic figure. 179 00:10:38,680 --> 00:10:41,880 For reasons we don't even probably understand, he did 180 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,240 something terrible. Now we're going to just take him 181 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:50,240 to construct and I mean make up to, you know, invent a character 182 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,640 who is a great master of Torah. We'll call him Alicia Benabuya. 183 00:10:53,680 --> 00:10:55,400 They could have called him anything else too, for, you 184 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:57,520 know, for this purpose. But probably because they had 185 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,840 the Tosefta, they had this notion that there was a guy, 186 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,160 Alicia Benabuya, and something terribly wrong happened. 187 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:06,440 So we're going to use that name in this figure to construct, and 188 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,200 we'll see how they do it. Someone who knew a great deal of 189 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:13,160 Torah and yet then became a Sinner. 190 00:11:13,560 --> 00:11:16,960 So we had Torah and we had sin. And then the question becomes 191 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:22,160 what prevails in the end? So let's look at the story and 192 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:26,280 we will see how this happens. So the story begins, Rabbi Mayor 193 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:30,000 was sinning and expounding in the House of Study in Tiberius, 194 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:34,840 the Bateman, Grash and Tiberia. His master Alicia passed by 195 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:36,920 riding on a horse on the Sabbath. 196 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,840 They came and said to Rabbi Mayer, behold, your master is 197 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,840 outside. He ceased his homily and went 198 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,400 out to him. So we're so right from the 199 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,160 beginning we we are presented with the two characters who are 200 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:53,040 going to be central to this story, Rabbi Mayer and Alicia 201 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:55,160 Benavuya. And again, this is part of the 202 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:56,560 reason why it's a separate story. 203 00:11:56,560 --> 00:12:01,360 Rabbi Mayer doesn't appear in the in the success at all So and 204 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:06,520 Rabbi Mayer is portrayed as the student of Alicia, so Alicia's 205 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:08,680 Rabbi Minger's master, his rabbi. 206 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:13,400 But we're immediately surprised because Alicia is doing 207 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,160 something not just that the rabbi shouldn't do, but no Jew 208 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,440 should do, right? He's riding his horse on the 209 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:21,840 Sabbath. Now riding a horse is prohibited 210 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,720 on the Sabbath. It's not the worst kind of 211 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,800 Sabbath infraction. If you think of like technically 212 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,320 by the laws of Shabbat it's not an Abdullah Ka. 213 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:35,560 But we do know that even from non other non rabbinic sources, 214 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,480 riding a horse on the Sabbath was sort of the way it had. 215 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,240 It had much greater symbolism. It's the way you came out and 216 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,880 said I'm kind of renouncing Judaism. 217 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,840 So it's very symbolic in this sense. 218 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,680 Obviously Alicia is sinning and yet he's called Rabbi Mayer's 219 00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:53,920 master. So the story already sets us up 220 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,040 with kind of this conundrum. What is going on? 221 00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:01,640 How is Alicia the Sinner from the get go, Rabbi Mayer's 222 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,560 master? And how did this all happen? 223 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:06,480 And there's actually a nice word play. 224 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,560 And again, I want to, I want to lastly go through these stories, 225 00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:11,640 pay attention to the literary aspects. 226 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:13,800 You know, this is something that really interests me. 227 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,640 And again, this is part of the reason we know these stories are 228 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:18,840 kind of more fictional compositions. 229 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:23,480 It's because of that use of word play and reversals, the kind of 230 00:13:23,560 --> 00:13:27,280 narrative techniques we tend to associate with great fictional 231 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,000 writing. It's very hard, much harder to 232 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,720 do when you're writing history and biography, but so pay 233 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:35,880 attention to that so you can see it's it says his master Alicia 234 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,880 passed by riding on his horse Avar. 235 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:43,880 Now the word avar over, of course, does mean to pass by. 236 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:45,840 What else does the word avar mean? 237 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:47,720 Avera sin? Sin. 238 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,680 So this is double entendre. It could mean his master Alicia 239 00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:54,520 sinned riding a horse on Shabbat. 240 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,440 So the the story's already telling us it's a Sinner if we 241 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:02,360 didn't even know that. And that just makes the the, the 242 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:04,600 conundrum kind of greater. So what? 243 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:08,240 And then then Reverend Mayer ceases his homily, he ceases his 244 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,120 Russia, and he goes out to to to meet him. 245 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,400 So we want to know what's going on and why Reverend Mayer is 246 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,000 apparently wanting to engage with Alicia. 247 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,680 You know, if Alicia's sitting like this, he could have 248 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:24,760 abandoned him. I mean, he could have said, OK, 249 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,720 you know, this is my rabbi, he went astray, but he doesn't say 250 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:29,920 that. So what happens now what we're 251 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,000 going to get, and this is part of the literary artistry, is you 252 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,560 can see the story has a very set tripartite structure. 253 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:40,320 Each of these five parts, I mean part A from the Toseftas 254 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:46,680 interpretation and then BCD and E are divided into 3 parts one. 255 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:52,920 You can see I've illustrated them 1-2 and and then three and 256 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,400 we'll get to see also has 1-2 and three. 257 00:14:55,400 --> 00:15:00,120 OK, so we have a very, very set structure and what happens in 258 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:05,040 this section is that Alicia is going to ask Rabin Mayer what he 259 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:07,200 was expounding. That's how it starts. 260 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,920 He Alicia said to him, what were you expounding today? 261 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,440 And then in Part 2 he says, what were you expounding again? 262 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,240 And part three, what else were you expounding? 263 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:21,240 So it it includes 3 Dreschot of Rabin Mayer, followed by some 264 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,200 conversation about them, all of which is significant. 265 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,880 So Alicia asked Rebbe Mayer. Oh, here you were in the Bate 266 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:29,400 Midrash. I was outside. 267 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,720 What were you expounding? What were you talking about in 268 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:36,320 the Bate Midrash? And Remy Mayer quotes him this 269 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,280 verse. The Lord bless the latter days 270 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,560 of Job's life more than the beginning. 271 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:44,840 OK, that's what that happened to me, is text. 272 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,560 And he said to him, Alicia says to him, How did you begin it? 273 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:54,720 And he said to him, the Lord gave Job twice what he had 274 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,800 before, that he doubled his money. 275 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,000 OK, so this book, this quote from the book of EO, from the 276 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:07,320 book of Job, At the end the verse said, God bless Job more 277 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:09,200 and at the end of his life than his beginning. 278 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:14,080 And the Lord said and and and another verse there says he gave 279 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:17,720 Job twice what he had before. And Alicia says he doubled his 280 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,800 money. Now, this is not the greatest 281 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:26,960 Russia, if you think about it, because Rev Mayer is basically 282 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:28,960 just explaining exactly what the verse says. 283 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,800 He's not really adding anything. There's no novel insight. 284 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:35,160 What does it mean? The Lord gave twice what he had 285 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:36,880 before that he doubled his money, you know? 286 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,080 OK, that's what the verse means. So what? 287 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,440 What's going on here is the the story's trying to make very 288 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:48,880 clear that Alicia Benabelia is still Rev Mayer superior, So 289 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:53,320 we'll see that because Alicia says to him, Alas for things 290 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,520 lost and not found, this is some kind of lament, right? 291 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,360 Atiba, Your master did not expound it like that. 292 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:05,319 Rather, the Lord blessed the latter days of Job's life more 293 00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:09,760 than the beginning on account of the meets, vote and good deeds 294 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:11,079 that he had done from the beginning. 295 00:17:11,079 --> 00:17:16,560 So this is a much better Russia, because it it's it it, it takes 296 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,079 the verse to in a new way. It's a novel insight. 297 00:17:19,319 --> 00:17:23,319 What is actually drushing is the last word more than the 298 00:17:23,319 --> 00:17:27,720 beginning. May reishito the mem there. 299 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,720 The shot of it is more than the beginning, that's how we 300 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,920 translate it. But the preparation mem can mean 301 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,640 different things and and Alicia's interpreting from the 302 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:41,640 beginning or on account of the beginning. 303 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,120 So what does it mean? The Lord blessed the latter days 304 00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:49,280 of Job's life, Mehre Chito. It means he blessed them from 305 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,920 the beginning in the sense of an account of the meets vote and 306 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:53,760 the good deeds that he done from the beginning. 307 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:57,920 So this Alicia Benabuya has already established himself as 308 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,960 superior to mayor. He knows Akiba's tradition he he 309 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:06,040 attributes this to Akiba but he knows this tradition and Rabi 310 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,440 mayor doesn't and it's a much better to Russia. 311 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:14,320 So what we have initially is again kind of this more of a 312 00:18:14,360 --> 00:18:17,360 enigma or more questions surprise at the beginning. 313 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:19,640 Here's Rebbe Mayer, the head of the Bateman. 314 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:23,360 Russian tavaria looks like Alicia Benabuya the Sinner. 315 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,080 And yet Alicia knows more Torah and he knows Akiba's Torah, 316 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:31,760 which mayor doesn't know. Also, I want us to think about 317 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,160 this Russia. I don't think it's accidental 318 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:38,880 that they quote this verse about the latter days in the beginning 319 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,680 and an encounter that meets voted good deeds that he'd done 320 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,080 from the beginning. I think all of the dress show 321 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,160 we're going to see a really self referential. 322 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,520 That is, they're not random teachings that happened, you 323 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:51,560 know, they're just quoted for the sake of being quoted. 324 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:55,640 But these all are going to also apply to the story of Alicia 325 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,400 Benavuya and to the question the rabbis are trying to figure out. 326 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:04,240 So here the question is, let's say you do become a Sinner and 327 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:08,280 you do lose credit, Let's say for some of your meets vote 328 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,960 still do, the ones you did at the beginning of the life, do 329 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,400 they? Does the merit for those still 330 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,720 still accrue to you? Would those still be a way to 331 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:23,720 get to Alam haba? You know, Jove lost his merits 332 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,320 or he lost the things he had. He didn't really lose his 333 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,080 merits, you know, because of this funny story in the book of 334 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:33,040 EO with Satan and so on. That's not exactly the same as 335 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:37,520 Alicia of course, but this story is kind of asking that question. 336 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:41,760 Can you lose the merit of Torah that you've got in the beginning 337 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:45,080 of your life if you go astray or or do you still get it? 338 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:50,280 OK, so that's Russia #1. So now Alicia says to Rebbe 339 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:52,920 Mayer what else were you expounded? 340 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,400 And he said to him the end of it thing is better than its 341 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,720 beginning. Now this verse from the book of 342 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:02,440 Cohelate Ecclesiastes, you notice it also ends. 343 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,480 Then it's beginning. It ends with the same word as 344 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:11,160 the previous verse from Job. The end of The thing is better 345 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:15,360 than its beginning me Reshito. And he said to him and how do 346 00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:18,360 you begin it? You know, how did you start your 347 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,920 Russia? And now Rabbi Mayer gives a 348 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:24,920 slightly better Russia than he did before. 349 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:29,080 He gives us 3 parables again. You can see this tripartite 350 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:34,240 structure AB and C3 subunit. So Rabbi Mayer said he said to 351 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,200 him to Alicia, I was doing my Russia. 352 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:41,720 I was explaining this this verse by comparing it to a man who had 353 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,760 children and his youth who died and his old age who live. 354 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:47,560 Behold, the end of it. Thing is better than its 355 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:49,520 beginning. What is this verse talking 356 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:51,520 about? It's talking about this kind of 357 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:55,600 man or comparing it to a man who did business in his youth and 358 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,320 lost money and it's in his old age and earned money. 359 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,800 Behold, the end of it thing is better than its beginning. 360 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,320 There's another way to understand this verse, or what 361 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:09,400 this verse is talking about, by comparing it to a man who 362 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:13,000 learned Torah in his youth and forgot it and in his old age and 363 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,120 fulfilled it. Behold, the end of The thing is 364 00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:18,440 better than its beginning. So I think this is, you know, a 365 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,120 slightly better Grusha Bradley Mayer's not just repeating the 366 00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:24,760 verse, he's actually illustrating it. 367 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:31,040 But nevertheless, these are rather routine interpretations 368 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:32,640 of the verse. I mean, it's basically what the 369 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:37,840 verse says and it's not. It's not so insightful. 370 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,160 I mean, obviously these things are are better than its 371 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:41,760 beginning. The end is better than its 372 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,760 beginning. If we look at this third one 373 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,320 again, I think this is where we see the self referential self 374 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:53,160 referentiality of it too. A man who learned Torah and his 375 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,640 youth and forgot it in his old age and fulfilled it. 376 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,840 Again, it doesn't apply directly to Alicia because what we're 377 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,480 going to see is Alicia. It's not that he forgot his 378 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,120 Torah. As we can see, he actually knows 379 00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:06,760 his Torah, but it's someone who basically threw out his Torah, 380 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,640 you know, before his old age, someone who rejected his Torah. 381 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:16,720 And so it's kind of asking again about how does that play out, 382 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,920 You know, how does this situation play out in Alicia? 383 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,760 Is the end of the thing better than its beginning? 384 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:27,520 Will he still get to Lamaba or, you know, has he lost it? 385 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,520 OK, but it's so it's a very subtle illusion. 386 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,160 But again, I think it's cluing us in as to that's one of the 387 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:37,400 questions here. And in case Alicia now responds 388 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,520 to Meyer as he did before with the same lament. 389 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:47,080 Alas for things lost and not found, Akiba, your master did 390 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,960 not expound it like that. Rather, the end of a thing is 391 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,160 better than its beginning, when it is good from the beginning. 392 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,640 OK, so here's again a better Russia, because it's not just 393 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:00,840 giving you the simple explanation. 394 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:02,680 It's not just repeating what the verse says. 395 00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:05,160 It's again playing on this, that mem. 396 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,080 What does it mean? The end of The thing is better 397 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:13,080 than its beginning, Mei reshito. It means from its beginning when 398 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:14,320 it's good. From the beginning. 399 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,640 The end of The thing is better only if it's good from its 400 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,800 beginning. And now Alicia actually, very 401 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,880 surprisingly, makes it explicitly referring to him. 402 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,880 Here's the self referentiality being explicit. 403 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:35,040 And this matter happened to me. Abuya, my father, was one of the 404 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:39,640 notables of Jerusalem, one of the elites, one of the rich of 405 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,280 Jerusalem. On the day he was to circumcise 406 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:47,000 me, he invited all the notables of Jerusalem and seated them in 407 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,320 one house. Or it could be one room. 408 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,640 The word by each refers to house or room. 409 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,160 He invited Rabi Elias and Rabi Yeshua and seated them in a 410 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,280 separate house. Or maybe we should say in a 411 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:01,000 separate room or separate place in the house when they were 412 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,240 eating and drinking and singing and clapping and dancing, That 413 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:09,040 is, Alicia and his friends Rabbi Eliezer said to Rebbi Yeshua. 414 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,760 As long as they are busying themselves with their own 415 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,240 business, let us busy ourselves with ours. 416 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,840 They sat and busied themselves with words of Torah from the 417 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,200 Torah to the prophets and the prophets to the Writings and 418 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,560 fire came down from heavens and encircled them. 419 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,480 So they were engaging in Torah with such passion and such 420 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,960 energy that actually fire, you know, came down from from 421 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,560 heaven. And Abuja said to them, my 422 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,440 masters, have you come to burn down my house upon me? 423 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,920 They said to him, God forbid. But we were sitting and turning 424 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,280 Khosrin, and I want us to pay attention to this word because 425 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:52,040 the word khosrin khosair is going to appear over and over 426 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:53,800 again. It's actually a keyword to this 427 00:24:54,880 --> 00:25:00,680 composition, to the whole story. So we were sitting and turning 428 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,760 words of Torah from the Torah to the prophets, from the Prophets 429 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,560 to the Writings, and the words rejoiced is when they were given 430 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:11,160 at Sinai and fire enveloped them as the fire enveloped them at 431 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,400 Sinai. At Sinai they were given 432 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,680 primarily in fire, and the mountain was ablaze with flames 433 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,480 to the very skies. And so here too, the fire came 434 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,280 out, And Abuya my father said to them, my masters, if that is the 435 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:29,280 power of Torah, if this son of mine prospers, Nikayem, if he 436 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,160 survives, I will dedicate him to Torah. 437 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,200 And now the narrator or or Alicia continues, since his 438 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,480 intention was not for the sake of Torah, for not for the sake 439 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:41,800 of heavens. It's my mask. 440 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,640 My father Abuyah's intention was not for the sake of heaven, 441 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,600 therefore did not prosper lo Nikai move for that man meaning 442 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:55,600 for me. In other words, Abuyah said, I 443 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,360 see this power of Torah. You guys were engaging in Torah 444 00:25:58,360 --> 00:26:00,280 and this fire just exploded there. 445 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,200 Look how powerful Torah is. So I'm going to dedicate my son 446 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,400 to Torah, but he wasn't dedicating him to the for the 447 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,280 right reasons. He was dedicating him to Torah 448 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,280 just because he he saw this kind of fire, you know, these 449 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,960 pyrotechnics. It wasn't out of real piety and 450 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,880 a sense of worship of God and commitment to Torah for its own 451 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,520 sake. And because of that, it did not 452 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,360 prosper for that man. That is for me, Alicia, 453 00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:28,360 Benabuya. I was kind of ruined from the 454 00:26:28,360 --> 00:26:31,480 start, you know. And that's what that comes back 455 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,240 to the illustration of the verse. 456 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,440 The end of The thing is better than its beginning, when it's 457 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,520 good from the beginning. But he, Alicia, it wasn't good 458 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,600 from the beginning. It was lo la shame, shame, we 459 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:49,320 would say So. Alicia, here is giving a little 460 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,440 account of what went wrong. His father was this, we would 461 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,280 say, a kind of assimilated Jew. I mean, not totally assimilated, 462 00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:00,080 but not not the most pious Jew. He's he's hanging out with these 463 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,960 notables. They're rejoicing in some ways. 464 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,440 They have the rabbis in a separate section. 465 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,240 It looks like he's got these rabbis there just kind of to 466 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:14,040 honor him or to honor his son for some reason, but not 'cause 467 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,640 he's really committed to them. He sees their power and that's 468 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,720 when he makes his dedication of his son to Torah, but in a kind 469 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,640 of midah connected to midah or measure for measure way. 470 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,800 Yeah, he he dedicated him Nikayem, right? 471 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:35,080 He wanted him to succeed. But lo nikayem, he didn't really 472 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:36,640 succeed. He didn't prosper because it's 473 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,600 fun. The wrong reason, as the verse 474 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:39,880 says. Now what? 475 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:44,160 What's a very important here is the rabbis are beginning to 476 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:49,680 construct how the figure of a sinning sage could develop. 477 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,320 How could it be, as we said from the beginning, that someone who 478 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,520 knows a great deal of Torah would go astray or would turn 479 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:02,280 out bad or would become a Sinner because Torah should protect him 480 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:04,160 and he should know the power of Torah. 481 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:09,040 So what this explanation is saying is, is that it was kind 482 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,960 of faded that way. It's like if we have a a genetic 483 00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:18,080 flaw in our body so that we're going to develop, you know, some 484 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,840 disease, whatever it is, there's nothing we can do about it and 485 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,480 sort of built into us from our genetic makeup from the 486 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,840 beginning. And Alicia Benabuya, the 487 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:32,360 storytellers are saying Alicia had that built in flaw because 488 00:28:32,360 --> 00:28:36,560 his father's intention was wrong from the beginning and therefore 489 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,600 he turned out to be a Sinner. So we can understand now, we can 490 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:44,040 begin to understand how you could get a sage who was a 491 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:45,640 Sinner. It's because right from the 492 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,360 right from the Greco, it was doomed. 493 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,920 It was, it was fated, you know, not to come out to be a 494 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:54,760 righteous person. Yeah, yeah. 495 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,120 They're trying to present it in the most realistic way possible, 496 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,680 from their perspective. Yeah, I wouldn't say realistic, 497 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,240 but in a plausible way or what we might say what 498 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:08,160 verisimilitude, the way that kind of makes sense, right for 499 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:09,720 the. Area that would sit well with 500 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:11,200 the people. Huh. 501 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:13,720 A way that would sit well with the people. 502 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,160 Well, it said, well, to the other rabbis would say it makes 503 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:17,680 sense. To the rabbis themselves, they 504 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,600 would say look and think of yourself. 505 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,120 If you think of a great Tommy Hakam, you know, one of these, 506 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,920 the great rabbis today, how would he go? 507 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,640 How would he become a Sinner? It sort of doesn't make sense. 508 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,640 So what they're saying is, no, this is a way that does make 509 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:33,720 sense. It makes sense because from the 510 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:38,440 beginning he was he was doomed to go astray because the 511 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:43,120 intention of his father it was Lola Shem Shamain, and so he 512 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,960 turned out Lola Shem Shamain. Now again you can say that that 513 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,000 that idea doesn't make sense to me, or I don't like it, or you 514 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,880 know, we shouldn't be punished for the sins of our father, But 515 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,040 the storyteller apparently believed that was plausible. 516 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,520 So in his world this was a way of making sense of it. 517 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,400 As we'll see, he works harder to make more sense of it. 518 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,360 Bull. He wasn't totally satisfied with 519 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,880 this, but this was his initial salvo to explain how sin and 520 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,920 Torah would coexist. He became a great master of 521 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,880 Torah because elite because Abuya dedicated him to Torah. 522 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,200 But he was going to become a master who sinned because his 523 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,200 attention was bad. It wasn't for the sake of Torah, 524 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:27,560 it was just for the sake of his power he saw OK, so again we see 525 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:31,120 Alicia Benabuya, you know is superior really to A to Rebbe 526 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,000 mayor. First of all, he knows Akiba's 527 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,520 interpretation. It's a better Russia. 528 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,880 It plays on the it's not simply the simple explanation of the 529 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,600 verse illustrated in parables. And actually it's got a real 530 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,920 life application. So whereas Reverend Mayer gives 531 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:50,440 us hypothetical parables illustrating it, Alicia Benabuya 532 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,720 gives you a real life example. You know, he lived it in this 533 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:55,880 way. He exemplified the verse. 534 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,160 OK, so now we get to the third part of this section. 535 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,640 So he said to him, Alicia says to him, what else were you 536 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,200 expounding? He said to him gold and glass 537 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,920 cannot match its value. OK, so now we have a different 538 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,840 verse, not, not one that deals with the beginning, but a 539 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,520 different book from the different verse from the book of 540 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,720 EOV of Job. Gold or Glass cannot match its 541 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,640 value. Now in context, this is a 542 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,000 section of chapter 28 here that deals with wisdom. 543 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:31,880 Wisdom or Hochman was this kind of idea in the ancient Near 544 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:33,840 East. It's not just in Judaism of a 545 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:41,160 kind of personified, you know, wisdom that that different sages 546 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,000 kind of could access or it almost had a kind of angelic 547 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,000 force to itself. It was considered kind of like 548 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,040 an Angel. But in any case, the rabbis 549 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,400 associated this Kokomo with Torah. 550 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,960 So in context, they understood this verse to be talking about 551 00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,400 Torah, gold or glass cannot match its value, the value of 552 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,880 wisdom or the value of Torah. So Rabbi Mayer is expanding this 553 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:06,160 verse. He said to him. 554 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,920 And how did you begin it? Alicia asks him. 555 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,040 He said the words of Torah are as difficult to acquire as 556 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:17,240 vessels of gold, and it's easy to lose as vessels of glass. 557 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,880 All right, so that's why it's kind of an interesting metaphor 558 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,600 or image. Why is gold or glass mentioned 559 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,840 in this verse compared to Torah? It's because words of Torah are 560 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,360 difficult to acquire like gold. They're easy to lose. 561 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,880 Is glass. Glass shatters very easily, as 562 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,680 we know. So that's what the images. 563 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,200 But just as vessels of gold and vessels of glass are broken, one 564 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,840 can return and make them vessels as they were. 565 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,120 Like one can return. The word from word for return is 566 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,520 Luxor again. We saw that word above. 567 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:57,960 We're going to see it again. So a sage who forgets his Torah 568 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,240 can return Luxor and learn it at the beginning. 569 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,200 And so this is actually a very nice structure. 570 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,960 Rabin Mayer has raised his game by the 3rd Russia. 571 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:15,360 Here he's explained why gold and glasses is compared to the value 572 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,840 of Torah. But why they're not equal to 573 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,080 Torah, But why they're mentioned in the same verse? 574 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,360 Because Torah is hard to acquire. 575 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,920 It's easy to lose, but you know if gold or glass breaks, you 576 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:28,560 can. You can put it together again. 577 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,000 You could heat up the glass. You could melt the gold and and 578 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,040 restore it as it was. And so too a sage who forgets 579 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,440 his Torah can learn it as the beginner. 580 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,720 Now at this point we have a variation of what we saw before. 581 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:48,080 This time Alicia does not say as he said, in both parts one and 582 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,640 two. Alas for the things that are 583 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:56,560 lost and not found, right? Saying how said it again in the 584 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,360 first one. Ativa, your master did not 585 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:00,960 expand it like that. In the first cases he showed he 586 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,920 was a better rabbi than mayor. But here mayor has raised his 587 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,760 game. But now Alicia says something 588 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,960 different. He says to him enough mayor, the 589 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,880 Sabbath limit is up to this point. 590 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:18,840 In other words, we've already walked a certain distance. 591 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,960 You're only allowed to travel a certain distance outside of your 592 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:26,360 place of residence on the Sabbath. 2000 Amot is known as 593 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,639 the Tkhub Shabak, not measured from exactly where you are, but 594 00:34:29,639 --> 00:34:31,040 measured from the limits of the city. 595 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:35,920 But apparently they walked 2000 cubits already out of Tiberius, 596 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:41,920 Alicia riding on the horse and Rabbi Mayer following behind 597 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,199 him. And Mayer says to him, how did 598 00:34:44,199 --> 00:34:46,440 you know this? You know, I mean, they didn't 599 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:50,440 have ways or you know, Fitbits there, they didn't know how far 600 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,920 they travelled. So Alicia says to him from the 601 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,280 steps of my horse, which I've been counting, and he's walked 602 00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:01,240 2000 cubits, Which again should tell us how great Alicia 603 00:35:01,240 --> 00:35:03,160 Benabuya is. Because while he's having this 604 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,760 discussion of Toro with Ravi Mayer, he has simultaneously 605 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:12,280 been monitoring the steps of his horse and keeping count on them. 606 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:14,760 And he knows that they've gone this far. 607 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,640 Which again, shows you just how observant he is, how great a 608 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,040 sage he is. I mean, he's been aware of this 609 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,440 all the time. You know, had he been someone 610 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,120 who wanted to observe this law, he could have observed this law. 611 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:29,920 As we're saying, he doesn't want to do it. 612 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,480 But you can see it's to portray him again as such a great safe, 613 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,480 which is what Rabbi Mayer says. He said to him, you have all 614 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,360 this wisdom, yet you will not repent, will you not, Hazar? 615 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,440 So here's this play on Hazor, right? 616 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,480 If you forget your Torah, you can return and get it. 617 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:51,360 And we saw it up above that they were returning, 'cause reading 618 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,840 the words of Torah. And of course, what else does 619 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,680 the word kosair mean? As in kosair bechuva, it means 620 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,640 repent. So we've got this word play 621 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:03,320 going through this whole section. 622 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,000 And now Rabbit Mayer makes it explicit, right? 623 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:11,760 He he, Alicia, tells mayor to turn back so he doesn't violate 624 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:16,000 Shabbat. And the mayor says to him, well, 625 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,040 why don't you turn back? Why don't you repent? 626 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,800 Why, why, why are you continuing as a Sinner? 627 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,680 And Alicia now says I cannot. And he explains, he said to him, 628 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,760 why he said to him, Once I was passing by the holy of Holies, 629 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,520 riding my horse on Yom Kippur that fell on Shabbat. 630 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:40,920 So this is the holiest time Yom Kippur, not just Yom Kippur, but 631 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,640 Yom Kippur and Shabbat together. And it's the holiest place. 632 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:50,680 It's by the Kurdisha, Kurdishim, And he was sinning. 633 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,120 He was riding his horse, which of course you're not supposed to 634 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,640 do. I heard a heavenly voice come 635 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,600 out of the holy of Holies and say, return rebellious children. 636 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:04,120 Shuvu, Banim Shuvavim, a call to repentance. 637 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:08,120 Shuva except Alicia Benabuya, for he knew my power and 638 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:13,560 rebelled against me. So this, this is the point of 639 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,800 view that where you talked about earlier when we started this, 640 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:21,440 that once you do a certain amount of sins, you can't come 641 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:22,080 back. That's it. 642 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,120 It's over. Well, see, that's that's the 643 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,360 point here that I think this is what that's exactly the question 644 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:31,080 that the the story is trying to preclude right here. 645 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,240 Your question is excellent. You know what's the the simple 646 00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:39,160 solution for a sinning sage, for a rabbi who sins is to do chuva 647 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,480 to Jose. That's exactly what Rabbi Mayer 648 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:44,800 says. And normally we say you can 649 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,800 always do Chuva. You can do Chuva on Yom Kippur. 650 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:49,680 You can do Chuva any day of the year. 651 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:52,560 You can do chuva by just before you die. 652 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,360 You know, the gates of Chuva are always open. 653 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:59,600 So yeah, let's say Alicia Benavuya violated Shabbat, and 654 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,280 let's say he lost his face. So he should do chuva. 655 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,440 And the Torah, he knows, should even give him an impetus to do 656 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,800 chuva. So what's happening in this 657 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:13,240 section is it's precluding that simple solution. 658 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,560 Alicia Benabuya is a is a is an exception. 659 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:21,360 He can't do Chuva because he heard this voice and the voice 660 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,000 said you're not allowed to do Chuva. 661 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,440 So for Alicia Benabuya, there's no solution. 662 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:30,840 And the Torah that he learned in his youth and the sins that he's 663 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:35,040 done are going to coexist until he dies, or they're just going 664 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,520 to continue in that mode until he dies because he can't do 665 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,360 Chuva. Now, is it fair that he can't do 666 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,520 Chuva? Well, apparently, again, by the 667 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:47,280 logic of this of the story, it is normally, you can always do 668 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:48,960 Chuva. But if you ride your horse, 669 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:54,560 Tafka Kapor Dafka in the Holy of Holies right next to the Holy of 670 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,640 Holies, that is such a rebellion, right? 671 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:01,080 This is what the verse says. You know, you knew my power, you 672 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,800 were a great rabbi, and you rebelled against me. 673 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:08,560 So I'm rejecting you. So Chuva is not an option. 674 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:13,160 So the rabbis have now successfully, or the storyteller 675 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,840 has successfully constructed this figure, a great master of 676 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:22,880 Torah, but a Sinner. And we can't solve it by doing 677 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,400 chuva. So we're going to, you know, 678 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,480 eventually see what happens when he dies. 679 00:39:27,720 --> 00:39:29,480 Does he get a llama bad? Does he not? 680 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,200 Does he get the merit for the Torah? 681 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,480 You know what happens. Yeah, so. 682 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:40,240 So by constructing by by, by inserting this whole point of he 683 00:39:40,240 --> 00:39:43,520 can't do truva. It sets the stage for the 684 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,760 ultimate question being posed. Exactly. 685 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:50,000 Is the is the merit of the Torah absolute so that even though 686 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,960 you've you've recruit all these sins, you still get that merit? 687 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,360 Or is it? Is it you know, can it be lost? 688 00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,640 Like the verse kind of says, you know, words of Torah could be 689 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:01,520 lost or you know things can be lost. 690 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:03,240 Can it? Can it be? 691 00:40:03,240 --> 00:40:05,360 Can it be lost? But you can't solve the the 692 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,040 problem by doing Tuva because Tuva is not an option. 693 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:11,440 All right, good. Everyone good. 694 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,120 So so just one one other point before we go on. 695 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,640 You can see how beautifully this section of the story is 696 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,920 constructed because how did it start? 697 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:23,200 It started with Reverend Mayer was in the House of study 698 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,840 expounding and leash a passed by riding his horse on the Sabbath. 699 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:34,320 And how does it end? It ends with a flashback to when 700 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:39,320 Alicia Buna Bouya was was riding his horse on the Sabbath and Yom 701 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,280 Kippur. So you know, those kind of two 702 00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:46,000 moments of horse riding converge right? 703 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:50,720 The present riding the horse and the past riding the horse. 704 00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:53,760 That was one factor that led to the whole problem. 705 00:40:54,440 --> 00:41:00,080 And and you can see there's a very artful construction of 706 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,920 time. Again, the present moment, you 707 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,920 know where we're in the story, the time of the story is Alicia 708 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,720 and Abuya travelling, you know, a leash on his horse, Rabbi 709 00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,560 Mayor walking together and having these discussions. 710 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,360 But meanwhile we have two very interesting flashbacks. 711 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:21,480 There's one to Abuya and the birth of Alicia and then another 712 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:26,960 flashback to Alicia when he when he heard the the voice from the 713 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,400 Holy of Holies precluding repentance. 714 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,640 So the the storyteller you know is, is is really using 715 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:38,200 flashbacks and in in a very, very complex narrative way. 716 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,560 He could have told the story in a different order. 717 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,920 He could have started with a booyah scene one and the birth 718 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:45,840 of Alicia. And then he could have had 719 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:47,760 Alicia growing up and learning Torah. 720 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:51,560 And then he could have had him you know, going astray and 721 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,160 rejecting in this scene and then he could have had it the mayor. 722 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,520 But he doesn't do it right. He he does it in a in a 723 00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:58,720 different way. And again, this is just part of 724 00:41:58,720 --> 00:42:01,880 the beautiful narrative art of the Torah, of the of the story, 725 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:04,280 and just one other. I I have a question. 726 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:08,400 So when he for he knew my power and rebelled against me. 727 00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:11,760 The power is corresponding to the story about his father, 728 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:13,920 correct? I think the power here is just 729 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,880 the power of Torah in general. That is, the greater the Rabbi, 730 00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,880 the more Torah he knows. He knows the greatness of Torah, 731 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,960 the greatness of God. So you knew my power. 732 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,560 You were such a great rabbi, and yet you rebelled against me. 733 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,640 So you know, you're not like someone who was a tinook 734 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,000 shanishba. You know, a Jew never learned 735 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:33,640 anything. You didn't know much about 736 00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,440 Torah. You know, those people go astray 737 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:38,680 or rebel. We might understand it. 738 00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,640 But, you know, of all the people in the world, you should. 739 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,680 You knew my power. So this is you rejected me. 740 00:42:44,720 --> 00:42:47,680 You rebelled against me. I'm going to reject you. 741 00:42:47,720 --> 00:42:50,000 It's kind of again the midaka negative Bidah got. 742 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,160 It. And and notice also this I mean 743 00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:59,440 there's the imagery is is very important he he he he you know 744 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:04,880 he he tells Rebbe Mayer turn back the Sabbath limit is here 745 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:10,200 and Alicia Vandebujian is going to go forward on his horse 746 00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,520 beyond the Sabbath boundary. So again, it's symbolic of him 747 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:19,160 leaving the community of Torah, you know, leaving the meets 748 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:23,240 vote, He's taking himself outside there, riding outside, 749 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:28,680 violating Shabbat, not just by riding the horse, but now by 750 00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:33,120 leaving tum Shabbat. And there's the the separation, 751 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:35,320 the barrier. I mean, again, it's it's 752 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,640 invisible, but you know, he's. Concerned, he's concerned about 753 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:40,440 his talmid. And. 754 00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,280 And the fact that he is, he doesn't want him to sin in a 755 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,080 way, because he's like, there's still hope for you. 756 00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:47,640 I I already went too far. He's already doubling down. 757 00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:51,160 He's riding on Shabbat again. Yeah, and and his student, you 758 00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,760 know, he's like, listen, you still have hope I I already went 759 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:55,840 too far. Yeah, I mean, that's right. 760 00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,120 That's why I'm saying it's almost like saying there's 761 00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,760 nothing I can do. That's what, you know, even if I 762 00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:04,360 wanted to do Chuva, maybe I do want to do Chuva, but I can't, 763 00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,960 you know, 'cause I went too far. But, you know, I I am concerned 764 00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:09,440 about you. Exactly. 765 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,040 That's a nice way to put it. And you shouldn't, you know, you 766 00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,920 shouldn't violate Shabbat. This is, by the way, why I think 767 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,440 this is an independent story 'cause if we go back to the 768 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:21,720 first section, Alicia Benabuya, killing young students of Torah 769 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,920 and sending them away from Torah and telling the Romans or 770 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,160 persecutors how to get Jews to violate Shabbat, that just 771 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:33,360 doesn't fit with Alicia here, who's who's telling mayor? 772 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:35,920 You know, you don't violate Shabbat. 773 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,400 You know, I'm rebelling against God, but I'm not harming 774 00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,880 anybody, you know? I think it's also symbolic, 775 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,200 possibly that the riding of the horse on so that you're going 776 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,200 too far represents going too far, like he's gone too far with 777 00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:52,080 his ideas and his actions. Yeah. 778 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,360 And we don't know exactly what they were, but whatever they 779 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,240 were, he's now beyond the pale. You know, that's symbolic 780 00:44:57,240 --> 00:45:00,480 boundary. OK, so that's, that's the second 781 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:04,880 section. Now see, you know, the third 782 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,240 section, or I think we could say the second section of this 783 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:12,760 second story now actually asks a question, why did all this 784 00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:16,280 happen to him? And we're going to get again 3 785 00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,480 answers, 123. Now, I actually think this 786 00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:23,800 section might have been yet another tradition about Alicia 787 00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:26,480 Ben Abuja. And it's not really part of the 788 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:32,760 story we just saw because we already got an explanation of 789 00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,680 why this happened to him. Why did this happen to him? 790 00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,440 It happened to him because of his father Abuja's bad 791 00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:41,560 intention. That was not Lashem Shamayim, 792 00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:46,600 and then because of this episode by the Holy of Holies. 793 00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:52,000 So in a way where we might be getting some other traditions 794 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,320 here. But I think what's going on is 795 00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:59,240 the storyteller is really bothered by this question of how 796 00:45:59,240 --> 00:46:01,920 could a master of Torah go astray and sin. 797 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,320 So he's working super hard to construct that figure, to 798 00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:09,200 explain it and he's got to provide many explanations. 799 00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,760 You know, a lot of things went wrong to get to this position. 800 00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:15,000 So let's look at these explanations. 801 00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:20,720 So, so why did all this happen to him Once he was sitting and 802 00:46:20,720 --> 00:46:22,560 learning in the plain of geniserat. 803 00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:26,880 Geniserat is what the geniserat is. 804 00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:28,840 The key narrat. You know the key narratus. 805 00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:34,160 OK. The, the, the GUR in and the 806 00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:37,040 clerk sometimes switch. OK, so in in Christian 807 00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,640 literature, in Greek literature, it's called the geniserat, but 808 00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:41,960 it appears in rabbinic literature too. 809 00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,920 OK, so once he was in the plain of the kinarit, he was up there 810 00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:49,000 in the Galilee, and he saw a man ascem to the top of a palm and 811 00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,200 take the mother bird together with their young and descend 812 00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:57,080 safely from there. And what's wrong with this? 813 00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:00,200 We know there's a mitzvah. Actually, it's going to be 814 00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:03,040 quoted right here. The next day he saw a man ascend 815 00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:04,760 to the top of the palm and take the young. 816 00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:08,000 After shooing away the mother, he descended from there and a 817 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:12,680 snake bit him and he died. He said that, as Alicia said it 818 00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,360 is written, do not take the mother together with her young. 819 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:18,080 Let the mother go and take only the young in order that you may 820 00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:20,760 live well and have a long life, that you're not supposed to take 821 00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:22,800 a mother with her eggs or with her chicks. 822 00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:25,360 So you're supposed to shoo the mother away. 823 00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:30,280 And that's exactly what this person did who died, whereas the 824 00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:35,120 first one who took the mother and her young, nothing bad 825 00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:38,280 happened to him. And what's what are you promised 826 00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:42,760 if you actually, you know, it's usually seen as kind of ethical 827 00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,480 sensitivity to the mother bird, though sometimes they don't like 828 00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,280 us to see this. But in any case, you know, what 829 00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:50,800 are you promised for observing this mitzvah in order that you 830 00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,160 may live well and have a long life, but this man died. 831 00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:55,520 So he says, where is the welfare of this man? 832 00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:57,240 Where is the long life of this man? 833 00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:02,920 So in other words, Alicia Benabuja had a problem with what 834 00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:06,240 we call theodicy, the justice of God or the suffering of the 835 00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:08,600 righteous. Here is a case where the wicked 836 00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:13,640 prospered the man who took the mother with the young and the 837 00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:16,520 righteous man suffered the one who shooed the mother away. 838 00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:20,000 And the Torah promised him a long life, and he didn't get a 839 00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:24,960 long life, so he lost faith. And of course, this is a very 840 00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:28,080 serious problem. Who doesn't have a an issue with 841 00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:29,800 the Odyssey, with the justice of God? 842 00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:32,920 It's something with we struggle over and over again, you know, 843 00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:35,120 especially after the Holocaust, but really all of Jewish 844 00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:38,520 history. So this is a plausible 845 00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:41,920 explanation for why you could lose faith, you know. 846 00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:47,120 Again, This is why you could understand a Torah scholar going 847 00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:51,600 astray and becoming a Sinner, you know, because I think the 848 00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:54,720 storyteller is working very hard to try to make that plausible. 849 00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:59,120 Now the storyteller throws in. He did not know that rebel 850 00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:03,000 Yaakov had previously expounded it in order that you may live. 851 00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,600 Well, when the verse says don't take the motherboard in order 852 00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:10,560 that you may live well, it means in the world to come that it's 853 00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:14,040 all good and have a long life in the future. 854 00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:18,000 That is all long. OK, so Alicia Benabuya, it was 855 00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,080 unfortunate, didn't know the real meaning of this verse. 856 00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:24,760 When the verse promises you a long life, it means an Alamaba 857 00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:28,640 in the next World. That's where if you do this 858 00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:33,320 mitzvah, you'll get your reward. So storyteller saying Alicia 859 00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:40,320 Benabuya tragically didn't know this explanation, so he thought 860 00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:42,240 the Torah was false. He thought the Torah had 861 00:49:42,240 --> 00:49:44,840 promised this man a long life and then he ended up dying. 862 00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:48,240 And had he had known this, maybe he would have gone astray again. 863 00:49:48,240 --> 00:49:51,240 I think this might. This is a little bit in tension 864 00:49:51,240 --> 00:49:54,640 with the section we saw before that portrays Alicia Benabuya, 865 00:49:54,720 --> 00:49:57,280 Such a great sage. He even knows Akiba's 866 00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,080 explanations that may or didn't know. 867 00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:01,480 And here he doesn't seem to know. 868 00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,680 A kind of basic explanation for this verse. 869 00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:08,840 But OK, you know for the story, sorry, tell his point of view. 870 00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:11,920 For whatever reason he took the verse literally and then he then 871 00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:15,680 he lost his faith because he saw the righteous were were 872 00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:18,120 suffering, dying in the in the wicked were prospering. 873 00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:23,520 So that's one way he might have gone astray or, you know, one 874 00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,680 way one, the reason he did go astray, you know, it makes it a 875 00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:30,040 plausible reason. And then secondly, some say it 876 00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:34,000 happened to him because he saw the tongue of Rebi Yehuda, the 877 00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,520 Baker, dripping with blood, dripping blood in the mouth of 878 00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:40,080 the dog. In other words, this was a great 879 00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:43,760 rabbi and he had been martyred. Usually this is interpreted 880 00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:48,800 during the Barkochba rebellion. And the rabbis, you know, the 881 00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:51,920 asarah, haru, Gaya, Mal flutes that we say on Yom Kippur, the 882 00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,880 10 martyrs. I don't know if it really is, 883 00:50:54,880 --> 00:51:00,360 but you know, some martyr, this great rabbi who was killed and 884 00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:05,560 then his body was humiliatingly, you know, eaten by a dog. 885 00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:09,280 His body was thrown to the dogs. He said this is Torah and this 886 00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:12,000 is its reward. This is the tongue that used to 887 00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:13,720 bring forth fitting words of Torah. 888 00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,800 This is the tongue that labored in Torah all of its days. 889 00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:20,720 It seems that there is no giving of reward and no resurrection of 890 00:51:20,720 --> 00:51:23,520 the death. So because of this incident 891 00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:26,240 again he lost faith. This is again this the righteous 892 00:51:26,240 --> 00:51:31,000 suffering and he couldn't understand how a great rabbi 893 00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:34,920 should have this faith. I mean where is the reward for 894 00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:39,080 Torah? And maybe seeing his his, his 895 00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:44,680 head or his tongue in the mouth of a dog suggested to him there 896 00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:46,240 was no resurrection for the dead. 897 00:51:46,240 --> 00:51:48,840 I mean the the connection there is not totally clear. 898 00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,680 But any case, he he lost faith because of this event. 899 00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:58,160 By the way, again, I think this could be self referential. 900 00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:00,840 That is, I think this is the Torah and this is its reward. 901 00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:04,840 This question that Alicia Benavuya asks is the question 902 00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:07,640 the storytellers are asking of Alicia Benavuya himself. 903 00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:12,720 You know, we're any great stage. Once you learn Torah, are you 904 00:52:12,720 --> 00:52:15,440 guaranteed a reward? Or if you sin, can you lose that 905 00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:18,720 reward? But OK, here it's in, you know, 906 00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:22,360 Alicia Benavuya's mouth, supposedly because of this 907 00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:25,280 incident he saw. And then we have another 908 00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:27,320 explanation. And some say that when his 909 00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:31,680 mother was pregnant with him, she would pass by houses of idol 910 00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:34,640 worship and smell that stuff. That is, she smelled the 911 00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:41,520 incense, the sacrifices that were offered to idols, and the 912 00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:45,120 aroma seeped into his body like the venom of a snake. 913 00:52:46,240 --> 00:52:51,240 OK, again, we had a snake. And part of the thematic unity 914 00:52:51,240 --> 00:52:54,960 right here was the snake who bit him and he died. 915 00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:58,120 Snake bit him and he died. Snake always the symbol of evil 916 00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:02,480 or the symbol of of sin. So in this case, what happened? 917 00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:07,040 His mother inhaled idolatrous sacrifices when he was in utero. 918 00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:13,440 And it kind of again caused a genetic, you know, problem for 919 00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:19,200 him, a kind of genetic mutation such that he was programmed to 920 00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:22,920 go astray. He was programmed to go to lose 921 00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:28,520 his faith or lose Torah and, you know, become an idolater or or 922 00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:30,920 reject God. So we have these three 923 00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:32,920 explanations. Now again, the fact that his 924 00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:36,200 mother was pregnant with him, I don't know, seems to contradict 925 00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:39,720 or stand in tension with the one about his father. 926 00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:43,360 Abuja is the reason to blame. But at least again it gives you 927 00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:48,000 an explanation that takes the to blame or makes it a plausible in 928 00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:51,360 the rabbi's or the storytellers point of view way that you could 929 00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:54,840 get a great tourist scholar who went astray or became a Sinner. 930 00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:59,560 Because from the beginning he was he had this you know this 931 00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:03,720 idolatrous substance inside of him because his mother had has 932 00:54:03,720 --> 00:54:08,000 gotten too close and smelled it. So I think the storyteller is 933 00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:12,600 working very hard to explain how we could get a great sage, a 934 00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:16,440 great scholar of Torah, and yet someone who he becomes a Sinner. 935 00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:19,080 You know, the these explanations, you could 936 00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,400 harmonize them with what we saw with the booyah. 937 00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:25,160 You could say, yeah, his father had the bad intention, Lolashem 938 00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:27,320 Shamayim. So he knew he was going to come 939 00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:29,240 out bad. He knew he was going to become a 940 00:54:29,240 --> 00:54:31,760 Sinner. And then this is how he became a 941 00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:34,200 Sinner. This was what precipitated it. 942 00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:36,760 It was how what happened to Alicia himself. 943 00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:39,360 He saw this event. He lost his faith. 944 00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:42,440 He saw the martyrdom. He lost his faith. 945 00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:47,480 His mother was also, you know, had this problem and all these 946 00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:50,160 things kind of together made him reject Torah. 947 00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:53,000 And then you had that voice by the holy of Holies. 948 00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:57,360 So there we have it right. The master of Torah, the sinning 949 00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:03,440 sage, can't repent, rebelled against God, went astray because 950 00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:06,520 of this terrible theological issue We all, we all struggle 951 00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:09,480 with because of the sins of his father and mother. 952 00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:13,160 And now the question is what happens Torah? 953 00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:16,320 Does Torah prevail? Does he get the merit of Torah, 954 00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:18,080 or does he lose it because of his sin? 955 00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:21,880 OK, so we'll go on to Section D Just one other point. 956 00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:28,880 Notice again there's a deep interest in in mothers and young 957 00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:31,640 or parents and children, right? The mother bird and the young 958 00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:36,840 chicks. Alicia, Booyah's mother, And 959 00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:40,800 being pregnant with him and his father and his circumcision, 960 00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:42,320 right? These parents and children, 961 00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:45,080 these issues keep coming up. Again, there's themes. 962 00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:47,960 It's just a very tightly held story, right? 963 00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:51,040 The same motifs and themes, and there's a great amount of 964 00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:53,320 thematic unity in this narrative. 965 00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:57,640 Also, the maybe it's not connected, but the theodicy 966 00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:01,480 brought up in this section corresponds potentially to EO, 967 00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:04,440 which is It is the book on theodicy. 968 00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:07,240 Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 969 00:56:07,240 --> 00:56:10,240 I mean, there could be a sort of allusion to that in those books, 970 00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:13,320 in the verses quoted from Joe from the book of EO. 971 00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:19,600 Yeah. OK, so let's see what happens. 972 00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:26,520 OK, so Section D now takes place years later. 973 00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:30,240 Alicia became sick. They came and said to Remy 974 00:56:30,240 --> 00:56:32,080 Mayer, behold, your master is sick. 975 00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:35,840 He went to desiring to visit him and found him sick. 976 00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:38,800 And he said to him, will you not repent? 977 00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:42,240 OK, so this section again starts similar to section B. 978 00:56:42,240 --> 00:56:46,720 Remember Reverend Mayor was sitting and he's founding in the 979 00:56:46,720 --> 00:56:49,440 House of studying Tiberius. His master Alicia passed by. 980 00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:52,040 They came in this section. They came and said to Reverend 981 00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:54,320 Mayor, behold, your master is outside. 982 00:56:55,120 --> 00:57:00,680 OK, so now in section D, behold your master, they came and said 983 00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:03,080 to Reverend Mayor, Behold, your master is sick. 984 00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:07,000 So again, you can see this is these repetitions tell you. 985 00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:10,560 It's a very cohesive story. It's all part of the same story. 986 00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:15,080 So here we are later in in Alicia's life. 987 00:57:15,240 --> 00:57:17,280 He's sick. They tell Rabin Mayer, he goes 988 00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:22,240 to visit him and he still wants Alicia to repent, just like he 989 00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:24,240 asked him to at the end of Section B. 990 00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:28,000 Maybe now he's sick. It's the end of his days. 991 00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:32,880 And now Alicia says he said to him, if one repents isn't 992 00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:38,760 accepted. You know, can Alicia's asking 993 00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:43,400 Rabbi Mayer, can I repent at this point, you know, so close 994 00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:47,840 to death or maybe in my state, you know, having been a Sinner, 995 00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:50,920 it's not totally clear. But he's asking Rabbi Mayer, 996 00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:53,520 it's a little bit of a reversal of what we said before, when 997 00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:57,080 Alicia knew all the answers and he knew the better dress out. 998 00:57:57,480 --> 00:58:00,680 But now, years later, Reverend Mayer has become a great rabbi 999 00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:02,840 and Alicia has kind of been weakened. 1000 00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:07,000 So we we have a little bit of a reversal of of the positions. 1001 00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:10,080 Now Alicia asked Rabbi Mayer the question. 1002 00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:11,920 I mean, Rabbi Mayer asked him, will you repent? 1003 00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:13,600 But Alicia says it's an accepted. 1004 00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:15,840 And Rabbi Mayer says basically yes. 1005 00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:20,560 He said, is it not written, You return man to dust, you decreed, 1006 00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:23,520 return you mortals. He quotes him a verse from 1007 00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:28,800 Tehillim Psalm 93. Until life is crushed, it is 1008 00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:31,760 accepted. So in other words, this verse 1009 00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:36,560 that says you return man to dust and then tells humans to do 1010 00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:41,240 chuva, you said return to new mortals means you can do chuva 1011 00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:44,520 until man returns to dust. You know, until you're dead, you 1012 00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:51,520 can always do Chuva, yeah? So by the response of Mayor, it 1013 00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:54,280 seems to be that his original question was regarding his 1014 00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:58,000 state, not his sins, because he's answering and it's not 1015 00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:02,360 until you die, meaning it's not too late even in your old age. 1016 00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:05,320 Yeah, Rabbit Mayer seems to believe no matter what your sins 1017 00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:09,240 are, you can do Chuva until you die, right? 1018 00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:11,400 He he. Rabbit Mayer didn't hear that 1019 00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:16,320 voice from the Holy of Holies that excluded Alicia Only Alicia 1020 00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:18,280 excluded, you know, heard that voice. 1021 00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:21,920 So from Rabbit Mayer's point of view, he's still holding out 1022 00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:26,880 hope in general. You can do Chuva until you die. 1023 00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:30,120 So he's saying to Alicia, yeah, you can, you can still do Chuva, 1024 00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:33,080 and he's hoping he'll still do Chuva. 1025 00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:38,440 He's not convinced that Alicia can't do Chuva. 1026 00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:43,480 Now at that point, Alicia wept and passed away and died. 1027 00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:47,840 Rabbi Mayor rejoiced in his heart and said, it seems to it 1028 00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:49,760 seems that my master died repenting. 1029 00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:54,280 So, you know, I think there are two ways to take the weeping At 1030 00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:57,240 that point, Alicia wept and passed away and died. 1031 00:59:57,640 --> 01:00:01,240 Rabbi Mayer seems to understand the weeping as chuva. 1032 01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:05,520 We actually know that crying is part of doing chuva. 1033 01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:08,040 There are different ways to do chuva, one of which is to to 1034 01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:10,760 cry. So he thinks that Alicia's 1035 01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:15,920 weeping is a sign that he did chuva and he's happy about that. 1036 01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:19,440 But there's another way to take it, and I think we could take 1037 01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:23,320 it. That Alicia is weeping at the 1038 01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:27,280 bitterness of his fate, that is, it's not meant as Chuva, because 1039 01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:30,480 Alicia himself knows that he can't do Chuva because he heard 1040 01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:35,320 that voice from the holy of Holies, precluding him doing 1041 01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:38,280 Chuva. So Alicia now has heard a drush 1042 01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:41,360 of it says any human being can do Chuva till the moment of his 1043 01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:44,920 death. It's never too late, except for 1044 01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:47,560 me. And he's weeping at the 1045 01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:51,880 bitterness of of that fate. And we'll see That seems to be 1046 01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:53,640 what's happened. That is, it seems that Reverend 1047 01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:57,840 Mayer is wrong because it says after they buried him, fire came 1048 01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:00,440 down from heaven and buried and burned his grave. 1049 01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:05,240 They came and said to Reverend Mayer, behold, your master's 1050 01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:09,600 grave is burning. So what is a burning grave 1051 01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:14,000 symbolize? These are the fires of dehennum 1052 01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:15,880 or something like that. He's being punished. 1053 01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:22,360 So it looks like and at this point he's not getting the merit 1054 01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:25,960 from his Torah and he's not getting Allahabad. 1055 01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:31,920 The opposite, he has lost his hoot, he has lost his merits and 1056 01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:34,920 he's rebelled against God and and since he can't repent 1057 01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:38,680 anymore, at the end of the day all he's got is sins on his 1058 01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:42,880 Ledger for those sins outweigh his his Torah. 1059 01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:44,800 But that's not the end of the story. 1060 01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:47,880 So what happens? What did he do? 1061 01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:50,960 What did mayor, mayor do? He took his cloak and spread it 1062 01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:55,080 upon it. He put his own cloak on Alicia, 1063 01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:59,040 Venezuela's grave. And he said, and now he's going 1064 01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:01,720 to give Adrusha based on the book of Ruth. 1065 01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:05,800 OK, so the book of Ruth, if you remember, there's the scene 1066 01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:08,960 where Boaz spreads his cloak on Ruth. 1067 01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:12,840 He comes upon her, you know, in the in the fields. 1068 01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:19,080 And then he says that he's going to redeem her and do the kind of 1069 01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:23,360 ye boom ceremony. Because remember, Ruth died and 1070 01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:26,440 Ruth's husband died, and he's the nearest kinsman. 1071 01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:29,520 But but Boa says there's one mirror kinsman. 1072 01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:31,560 So I got to see if that kinsman will redeem you. 1073 01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:34,080 If he does, that's fine. Otherwise I'll do it. 1074 01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:36,720 So he says to Ruth, stay the night. 1075 01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:40,080 Then in the morning, if he will act as a Redeemer, good. 1076 01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:43,680 If the other guy will redeem you and marry you, that's good. 1077 01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:47,200 But if he does not want to act as a Redeemer for you, I will do 1078 01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:52,480 so myself as God lives. Now the now mayor is going to 1079 01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:55,720 make a drush on this verse, as the rabbis often do by totally 1080 01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:58,800 decontextualizing it. So forget the context in the 1081 01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:02,240 book of Ruth. If you just look at these words, 1082 01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:06,840 as this verse is kind of a free floating thing, stay the night 1083 01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:09,640 in the morning if he will act as a Redeemer, good. 1084 01:03:09,640 --> 01:03:12,160 But if he doesn't want to act as a Redeemer for you, I'll do it 1085 01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:14,880 myself. Hey, this is how Rabbi Mayor is 1086 01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:17,240 going to interpret it. Nothing to do with the book of 1087 01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:21,240 Ruth, but as thus showed, often worked, totally decontextualized 1088 01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:26,520 as a kind of free floating verse stay the night in this world 1089 01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:31,080 that is similar to night. So you, Alicia Benabuya, stay in 1090 01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:32,680 this world that's similar to night. 1091 01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:36,280 And then in the morning this is the world to come that is 1092 01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:40,840 completely mourning. So in the world to come, if He 1093 01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:43,560 will redeem you, good. This refers to the Holy One. 1094 01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:47,840 Blessed be see who is blessed be He who is good, as it says He is 1095 01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:51,520 good to all, and His mercy is upon all these creatures. 1096 01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:57,680 So the Word, if He will redeem you, good is He's reading it as 1097 01:03:57,680 --> 01:04:02,320 if Mr. Good will redeem you. And who is Mr. Good? 1098 01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:04,840 That is God, because it says He is good to all. 1099 01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:07,840 So if God will redeem you, that's good. 1100 01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:10,440 If God will redeem you, Rebbe Mayer, in the world to come, 1101 01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:13,960 that's good. But if he does not redeem you, I 1102 01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:18,920 will redeem you myself. As God lives, you know, I, Rabbi 1103 01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:22,160 Mayer, will redeem you. I will get you into a llama Bah. 1104 01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:27,680 And it was extinguished. Now it's a remarkable Russia. 1105 01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:31,120 And I have to say, I don't even understand exactly how it works. 1106 01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:33,400 It's almost like Reverend Mayer is blackmailing. 1107 01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:37,360 I've got his Baraku here and he's saying, you know if you 1108 01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:40,760 Akadishbar who will redeem Alicia Benabuya, great, go ahead 1109 01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:43,760 and do it. If you'll get him out of of to 1110 01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:46,720 have him and take him to Alamaba and if you're not going to do 1111 01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:48,760 it, I'll do it. Now I don't know how he plans to 1112 01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:52,720 do it, what what he would do if God says no, I'm not going to do 1113 01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:53,800 it. He rebelled against me. 1114 01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:57,440 That's it. The bodily will will will give 1115 01:04:57,440 --> 01:05:00,040 us a little bit of a hint how this might occur, but your 1116 01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:02,080 Psalmic doesn't. But in any case it doesn't need 1117 01:05:02,080 --> 01:05:03,640 to because the fire is extinguished. 1118 01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:07,560 In other words, God listens. So this this kind of strong arm 1119 01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:11,960 tactics of revving mayor using this verse from the the book of 1120 01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:18,840 Ruth convinces God or prevails upon God or or ends up getting 1121 01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:25,120 getting Alicia Benabuya out of the flames of Gehenna and 1122 01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:29,920 presumably to Alam Haba. So I think part of the answer 1123 01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:35,200 the rabbis are giving us in this story is one of the ways that 1124 01:05:35,880 --> 01:05:38,440 the merit of Torah is actually absolute. 1125 01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:41,520 I mean this is the direction that it's going in that the 1126 01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:45,040 merits of Torah will actually kick in that you can't 1127 01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:50,600 completely lose the merits of Torah despite sin is because of 1128 01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:53,400 your disciples. You know, your Torah has a kind 1129 01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:59,040 of afterlife and because you've taught that Torah, it ends up 1130 01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:03,320 getting you some credit because you're, you know, in this case, 1131 01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:07,720 your disciples really end up fighting for you and and you 1132 01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:09,880 know there are, there are all those traditions as you know 1133 01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:14,960 about the the lips of the sage moves in the grave when someone 1134 01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:17,680 quotes traditions in his name and you get a kind of 1135 01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:19,840 immortality when your Torah is quoted. 1136 01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:24,760 So part of the narrative Torah, part of the way it confers a 1137 01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:28,800 kind of afterlife with immortality or a llama BA, is 1138 01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:32,680 through the Torah, continuing to exist in the mouths of the 1139 01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:34,600 disciples. You know, we have a kind of more 1140 01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:38,640 concrete representation of this. Rabbi Meyer actually goes to 1141 01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:42,640 bat, you know, goes to fight for Alicia Benabuya, but ends up 1142 01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:45,720 saving him. And then they make this point in 1143 01:06:45,720 --> 01:06:48,600 the story even more explicit because they said, they said to 1144 01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:51,160 Rabbi Meyer. And again, you notice the 1145 01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:54,680 beautiful literary construction, three parts. 1146 01:06:54,680 --> 01:06:57,680 They came and said to Rebbe Mayer, your master is sick. 1147 01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:01,440 And then they came and said to Rebbe Mayer, your master's grave 1148 01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:04,200 is burning. Then they said to Rebbe Mayer, 1149 01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:06,320 right. So three kind of questions of 1150 01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:10,280 Rebbe Mayer, if they say to you in that world, whom do you 1151 01:07:10,280 --> 01:07:12,960 desire to visit? And again that's a repetition. 1152 01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:15,960 Does he went desiring to visit or trying to visit? 1153 01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:18,440 Desiring to visit him when he was sick? 1154 01:07:18,440 --> 01:07:23,240 Desiring to visit his grave? If they say to you, whom do you 1155 01:07:23,240 --> 01:07:26,360 desire to visit in that world? So we get a little bit of a 1156 01:07:26,360 --> 01:07:28,720 flash forward. We have these flashbacks again, 1157 01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:32,760 this very artful use of time. Your father or your master. 1158 01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:37,480 When you Rev the mayor get to Alamaba, who will you honor 1159 01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:39,520 more? Will you honor your father or 1160 01:07:39,520 --> 01:07:43,080 will you honor your master? Here's another father, parent, 1161 01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:47,320 child reference that we've seen before, he said to them. 1162 01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:50,120 I will first approach my master and then my father. 1163 01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:52,800 OK, so I'll go first to Alicia Benabuya. 1164 01:07:54,720 --> 01:08:00,240 He will still be my master even though he was a Sinner because 1165 01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:03,640 he taught me Torah, he didn't lose that status. 1166 01:08:04,520 --> 01:08:06,440 And they said to them, will they listen to you? 1167 01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:09,240 You know, I don't know who the day is, but the people in charge 1168 01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:13,560 of Alamaba or the angels or, you know the police up there, you 1169 01:08:13,560 --> 01:08:15,440 know will will they listen to you? 1170 01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:20,200 Will they let you honor your your spiritual father, Alicia 1171 01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:27,000 Benabuya, before your biological father because he taught you 1172 01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:28,600 Torah? That is your spiritual father 1173 01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:32,840 Alicia told you Torah and he says, Rabbi Mayer says, did we 1174 01:08:32,840 --> 01:08:36,000 not learn they saved the casings of the scroll? 1175 01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:39,840 With the scroll, the casings of the phylacteries of the filling 1176 01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:43,680 with the filling? They save Alicia Akher for the 1177 01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:46,600 merit of his Torah. I mean, I think this first of 1178 01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:50,600 all, this last line just is the key to the whole story. 1179 01:08:51,319 --> 01:08:52,680 You could just sum it up that way. 1180 01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:55,920 You know, ultimately Torah is absolute. 1181 01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:58,840 It does prevail. Alicia Benabuya will be saved 1182 01:08:59,200 --> 01:09:01,439 despite his sin because of the merit of his Torah. 1183 01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:07,200 But but Rabbit Mayer proves this by quoting a really opposite, 1184 01:09:07,200 --> 01:09:10,640 really appropriate Mishnah. There's a Mishnah that says they 1185 01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:13,600 save the casings of the scroll with the scroll, the casings of 1186 01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:16,319 the filling with the filling. What it's talking about is if 1187 01:09:16,319 --> 01:09:20,000 there's a fire on Shabbat and it's burning up a shawl, or it's 1188 01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:24,680 burning up a house, you're allowed to carry out sacred 1189 01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:26,880 objects. You can carry out the tourist 1190 01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:30,840 scrolls, you can carry out filling, even though normally 1191 01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:33,640 that violates Shabbat. Carrying from a private to a 1192 01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:36,880 public domain you're not allowed to do on Shabbat. 1193 01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:43,160 But if you're saving holy writings from fire, you're 1194 01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:44,840 allowed to do it on Shabbat, right? 1195 01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:48,120 That mitzvah supersede Shabbat. And then the Mishra says you can 1196 01:09:48,120 --> 01:09:52,080 also take the scroll of the Torah out and the and the casing 1197 01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:53,600 of the trilling. In other words, you don't have 1198 01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:56,120 to. You can even violate Shabbat by 1199 01:09:56,120 --> 01:09:59,400 taking the Torah casing and the trilling boxes out. 1200 01:09:59,400 --> 01:10:02,120 It's not just the scroll that you can save, you save 1201 01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:05,800 everything all together. So they save Alicia for the 1202 01:10:05,800 --> 01:10:08,800 merit of his Torah. So he's got that Torah inside 1203 01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:14,240 him and ultimately like the casing around him, maybe he's 1204 01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:17,360 got some sin around him or his bodies around that. 1205 01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:23,040 But because it contained the Torah that ultimately he can 1206 01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:27,360 ultimately be saved, saved from the fire of Gehenna. 1207 01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:31,040 So he was saved from the fire of Gehenna ultimately because of 1208 01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:35,160 the Torah that he contained. Just like the Torah scrolls are 1209 01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:38,480 saved with the casings or the casings are saved with the 1210 01:10:38,480 --> 01:10:41,520 scroll and it's filling boxes with the filling. 1211 01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:45,120 It's by the way very, very unusual to have a Mishnah quoted 1212 01:10:45,160 --> 01:10:50,160 in a story, in an A gothic story, basically a Hawaii, you 1213 01:10:50,160 --> 01:10:51,840 know, Mishnah for a Gothic purposes. 1214 01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:55,920 Again, it's one of the really neat, fascinating things in this 1215 01:10:55,920 --> 01:10:57,920 story, makes it really distinctive. 1216 01:10:58,200 --> 01:11:01,640 Apart from all the drashot and the verses, beautiful use of the 1217 01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:04,040 Mishnah being drushed. You know, you don't get that 1218 01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:06,920 that often. So here Ravi Mayor kind of 1219 01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:13,080 explains to everyone basically why Alicia Benabuya was saved, 1220 01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:18,960 why he adopted these tactics, why ultimately Torah should 1221 01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:21,040 prevail. By the way, this mention of 1222 01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:23,360 Akhir here is probably a scribal error. 1223 01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:27,920 I don't think Akhir no other ever appears in the Yurushami, 1224 01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:30,840 that's what. That's a bodily term might 1225 01:11:30,840 --> 01:11:33,240 appear in the Tosefta again under influence of the bodily, 1226 01:11:33,240 --> 01:11:35,920 but in any case it seems to have got in the Yurushami here. 1227 01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:37,880 Anyway, that's a very, very minor point. 1228 01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:43,400 So the the question, the mentioning of his choosing his 1229 01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:47,640 rabbi over his father is really just to It implies that his 1230 01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:50,880 father didn't give him Torah but his Rabbi did so therefore. 1231 01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:55,600 Right, because you have a lot of sources where the rabbis say 1232 01:11:55,600 --> 01:11:58,840 like if you find if they're who do you honor more, your father 1233 01:11:58,840 --> 01:12:03,400 or your master. If you find a lost object, you 1234 01:12:03,400 --> 01:12:05,760 return it. Or two lost objects, do you 1235 01:12:05,760 --> 01:12:08,760 first return the one to your master or to your father? 1236 01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:10,480 In other words, who takes precedence? 1237 01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:14,400 And their general answer is your rabbi should take precedence 1238 01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:17,640 because he gets you to Alamaba and your father brought you into 1239 01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:20,560 Alamaze. But you know that world, the 1240 01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:23,520 next World versus this world. But So what this part of the 1241 01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:28,360 story is saying is that Alicia remains Rabbi Meyer's master. 1242 01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:32,920 He doesn't lose that status. And therefore that's another 1243 01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:35,480 reason why his Torah ultimately prevails. 1244 01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:39,440 His Torah ultimately gets the merits from it and you can't 1245 01:12:39,440 --> 01:12:41,320 lose it. He doesn't lose it. 1246 01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:46,000 So that's the basic answer to our story. 1247 01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:49,920 This is how the Rabbis answer it. 1248 01:12:50,360 --> 01:12:52,800 I mean, it's a little complicated because Alicia, you 1249 01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:56,200 know, we did kind of require some help from Rabbi Mayer, from 1250 01:12:56,200 --> 01:12:59,280 his disciples. But ultimately the message is, 1251 01:13:00,280 --> 01:13:03,320 you know, the the you can't lose your scoot, you can't lose your 1252 01:13:03,320 --> 01:13:06,440 merits for studying Torah. And then that message is 1253 01:13:06,440 --> 01:13:09,760 rehearsed in the last part of the story, a very brief part. 1254 01:13:10,520 --> 01:13:13,040 This is often the way rabbinic stories work. 1255 01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:18,120 They kind of repeat themselves in different ways to emphasize 1256 01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:21,440 things, but since it's in a narrative mode, they give you 1257 01:13:21,440 --> 01:13:23,600 another story or another part of the story. 1258 01:13:24,080 --> 01:13:28,840 So years later, the daughter, his daughters, Alicia Benabuya's 1259 01:13:28,840 --> 01:13:33,480 daughters, went to ask for arms alms charity from Rebi Yehuda 1260 01:13:33,480 --> 01:13:36,120 Nasi. OK, so we're talking about the 1261 01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:42,240 next generation, the daughters of Alicia and the student of 1262 01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:44,520 Mayor. I mean, Rev Yehuda Nasi is not 1263 01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:47,960 explicitly stated as a student of Revie Mayor. 1264 01:13:48,200 --> 01:13:50,280 There are a couple sources to that effect. 1265 01:13:50,600 --> 01:13:53,880 But we do know Revie Huda Nasi's Mishnah was based on the mission 1266 01:13:53,880 --> 01:13:57,000 of Revie Mayor, so I think it's fair to call him a student. 1267 01:13:57,000 --> 01:13:58,480 I think that's really what's going on. 1268 01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:03,880 That's the storytellers idea. So Rabbi, Rabbi, Rabbi Huda Nasi 1269 01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:09,040 decreed and said may no one show him mercy, may none pity his 1270 01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:11,920 orphans. So again quoting a verse from 1271 01:14:11,920 --> 01:14:17,160 tahilim and there's a section in this chapter of tahilim about 1272 01:14:17,160 --> 01:14:20,200 the wicked man and it goes about all the things you shouldn't do 1273 01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:23,040 to a wicked man, you know, all these things should happen to 1274 01:14:23,040 --> 01:14:27,200 him and no one should show him mercy and no one should pity his 1275 01:14:27,200 --> 01:14:31,400 orphans. So Rabbi, Rabbi Yuda Nasi is 1276 01:14:31,480 --> 01:14:35,880 initially saying we can't give any charity to his daughters 1277 01:14:36,480 --> 01:14:40,160 because he was a wicked man and that wickedness, his sins 1278 01:14:40,920 --> 01:14:45,520 continue after his death and even affect his daughters. 1279 01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:50,240 They said to rabbis to Rebbeyuda Nasi do not look at his deeds, 1280 01:14:50,240 --> 01:14:54,360 look at his Torah. So they appeal to Torah, meaning 1281 01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:57,880 again, symbolically they're committed to Torah and again 1282 01:14:57,880 --> 01:15:00,520 they appeal to exactly what Rebbey Mayer was talking about. 1283 01:15:00,880 --> 01:15:03,920 The sins are less important than his Torah. 1284 01:15:04,360 --> 01:15:09,280 The Torah should have merit and his deeds are outweighed by that 1285 01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:12,280 Torah. At that point Rabbi wept and 1286 01:15:12,280 --> 01:15:14,400 decreed that that beast they'd be supported. 1287 01:15:15,040 --> 01:15:20,840 Hey, so he retracted and he gave charity to the daughters on the 1288 01:15:20,840 --> 01:15:27,200 basis of their father Alicia's merit his Torah Again, here we 1289 01:15:27,200 --> 01:15:30,200 have the parents and children like fathers and daughters. 1290 01:15:30,200 --> 01:15:35,200 Again we have sons and mothers. He said to him, if this one who 1291 01:15:35,200 --> 01:15:39,320 labored in Torah not for the sake of heaven, see what 1292 01:15:39,320 --> 01:15:43,000 children he raised. He who labored in Torah for its 1293 01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:45,520 own sake. How much the more so the 1294 01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:52,280 Alicia's daughters, despite his labor in in Torah, Lola Shem 1295 01:15:52,280 --> 01:15:54,960 Shamain, not for the sake of heaven, Despite his came to 1296 01:15:54,960 --> 01:15:57,600 Torah, his daughters came out good, you know. 1297 01:15:57,600 --> 01:15:59,920 They appealed to Rabbi on the basis of his Torah. 1298 01:15:59,920 --> 01:16:03,480 They talk about Torah. They were pious. 1299 01:16:03,480 --> 01:16:05,760 You know, someone who labours in Torah. 1300 01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:07,680 How much? The more so, how much the more 1301 01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:11,200 so will he have pious children? So again, this kind of rehearses 1302 01:16:11,200 --> 01:16:14,480 the whole message of the story. In the next generation. 1303 01:16:14,760 --> 01:16:19,200 We have Alicia's daughters, We have mayor, student. 1304 01:16:19,680 --> 01:16:22,880 Initially they're not supported. The sin sign seems to outweigh 1305 01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:26,040 the Torah, but then Rebbe is convinced they should be 1306 01:16:26,040 --> 01:16:33,560 supported because the Torah ultimately confers merit it and 1307 01:16:33,560 --> 01:16:37,720 outweighs the deeds. Look at his Torah, not at his. 1308 01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:41,320 Look at his Torah, not at his deeds, not at the sins. 1309 01:16:41,720 --> 01:16:45,840 And therefore ultimately the merit does prevail. 1310 01:16:47,080 --> 01:16:50,200 So I think this this little section basically says what we 1311 01:16:50,200 --> 01:16:54,000 saw before with Reverend Mayer and Alicia Benabuya himself, you 1312 01:16:54,000 --> 01:16:56,040 know, in a slightly different way. 1313 01:16:57,800 --> 01:17:00,160 Again, the sin versus Torah and the Torah prevails. 1314 01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:03,880 So overall, what the Torah, what the what the story of the 1315 01:17:03,880 --> 01:17:09,960 Yershami is telling us is when you you know Torah is is is of 1316 01:17:10,280 --> 01:17:14,560 such high status, right? Torah is so great. 1317 01:17:15,280 --> 01:17:18,760 And of course the Rabbis have other expressions of this Tamu 1318 01:17:18,760 --> 01:17:22,520 Torah kinegat kulam, tamu Toro is as great as all the other 1319 01:17:22,520 --> 01:17:25,480 mitzvos and there's no greater mitzvah than Torah and so on. 1320 01:17:26,400 --> 01:17:31,240 But it's so great that its merit will ultimately save you no 1321 01:17:31,240 --> 01:17:34,960 matter what. So even if there is such a 1322 01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:37,840 figure, even if there's someone who learns Torah and ends up 1323 01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:41,000 sinning for whatever reason and those reasons, it's hard to 1324 01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:44,720 understand how that figure would actually exist. 1325 01:17:45,240 --> 01:17:48,760 But the rabbi's work and the storytellers work in figuring 1326 01:17:48,760 --> 01:17:52,880 out the plausible construction of someone who knows Torah but 1327 01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:57,840 sins can't repent. He's stuck in that odd 1328 01:17:59,120 --> 01:18:02,640 configuration of two like oil and water, things that shouldn't 1329 01:18:02,640 --> 01:18:03,840 go together. But they do. 1330 01:18:04,160 --> 01:18:09,440 But if that does happen and you do ultimately sin, lose faith, 1331 01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:15,040 rebel, violate Shabbat, no matter what you do in the world 1332 01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:17,520 to come your your Torah will ultimately prevail. 1333 01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:22,000 You cannot lose that merit. And and it's absolute, yeah. 1334 01:18:23,400 --> 01:18:28,680 Incredible breakdown. I just want to few points that I 1335 01:18:28,680 --> 01:18:31,120 want to bring out. I just want to make sure that 1336 01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:34,760 comprehending the methodology that you're placing. 1337 01:18:35,200 --> 01:18:40,360 So essentially the way to attack in Agada. 1338 01:18:40,960 --> 01:18:43,120 I don't know if it would work for every single one, but at 1339 01:18:43,120 --> 01:18:46,680 least for a large corpus of Agadotes, right? 1340 01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:54,840 I think that we tend to try to read it or learn it linearly. 1341 01:18:54,920 --> 01:18:58,000 If I'm if that's the wrong word, maybe, I don't know, Meaning a 1342 01:18:58,200 --> 01:19:01,000 lot of times you know you go through when I got done and each 1343 01:19:01,000 --> 01:19:05,600 points like you know you'll start to try to derive a lesson 1344 01:19:05,600 --> 01:19:09,800 or go into that point. What you're doing is you're more 1345 01:19:11,080 --> 01:19:15,840 creating a general theme of a premise, let's call it that. 1346 01:19:15,920 --> 01:19:19,080 That premise is not obvious. You have to in a sense extract 1347 01:19:19,080 --> 01:19:24,480 out that premise and then every step of the story is basically 1348 01:19:24,880 --> 01:19:30,080 you're reading how the Rabbi's constructed a story with 1349 01:19:30,200 --> 01:19:38,080 literary techniques to achieve to achieve that premise that 1350 01:19:38,080 --> 01:19:41,360 they're looking to create via this character and then answer 1351 01:19:41,360 --> 01:19:42,800 it within that structure as well. 1352 01:19:43,040 --> 01:19:45,840 So really it's one point if you what I'm trying to say is so if 1353 01:19:45,840 --> 01:19:48,000 you're getting stuck in the details of the story 1354 01:19:49,120 --> 01:19:54,360 independently or trying to get something kind of outside of 1355 01:19:54,360 --> 01:19:58,000 this structure out of maybe a certain point in the story, 1356 01:19:58,000 --> 01:20:01,280 that's kind of a waste of time because essentially what you're 1357 01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:05,040 what you're doing is you're you're you're reading it as one 1358 01:20:05,040 --> 01:20:06,840 whole unit from beginning to end. 1359 01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:09,360 Yeah, I think that's a good way of putting it, I think. 1360 01:20:09,360 --> 01:20:12,640 I think you want to. I mean, first of all you have 1361 01:20:12,720 --> 01:20:17,480 to, you have to see that the storyteller was telling a 1362 01:20:17,480 --> 01:20:20,760 cohesive and coherent story. And one of the way you see that 1363 01:20:20,760 --> 01:20:24,800 is the repetition and themes, repetition and language. 1364 01:20:25,120 --> 01:20:28,320 You can see he wants you to make these connections. 1365 01:20:28,840 --> 01:20:33,120 And yeah, those are clues, those are way of of making it hang 1366 01:20:33,120 --> 01:20:36,800 together. And then what's also important 1367 01:20:36,800 --> 01:20:39,600 is the structure, you know that I divided it and it's not just 1368 01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:40,880 me. I mean people who analyze 1369 01:20:40,880 --> 01:20:43,960 stories in this way. You can see the five parts and 1370 01:20:43,960 --> 01:20:48,120 the sub units of each part and and once you appreciate the 1371 01:20:48,120 --> 01:20:52,280 structure exactly like you say, you don't have to read the story 1372 01:20:52,480 --> 01:20:56,680 in a purely linear way. One Section 2, Section 3, 1373 01:20:56,680 --> 01:21:00,160 Section 4, Section 5. That's normally how we would 1374 01:21:00,160 --> 01:21:03,440 encounter a story and read it. But you can relate different 1375 01:21:03,440 --> 01:21:05,240 sections to different other sections. 1376 01:21:05,240 --> 01:21:10,320 Section D is actually more related to section B and section 1377 01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:13,960 E you know then comes back to section D but with the father 1378 01:21:13,960 --> 01:21:16,560 and children. It has some motifs in common 1379 01:21:16,560 --> 01:21:19,600 with the other ones. So you want to be able to take 1380 01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:23,720 different sections out of their linear order and see how they 1381 01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:26,400 relate to other sections in the story. 1382 01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:29,720 So it's very useful to make structures. 1383 01:21:29,720 --> 01:21:33,080 If you look at my books or you know, the books of other 1384 01:21:33,080 --> 01:21:36,920 scholars of rabbinic stories now, this is one part of the 1385 01:21:36,920 --> 01:21:40,960 method of reading and analyzing stories. 1386 01:21:40,960 --> 01:21:43,720 So you're right, you don't want to look at each detail and sort 1387 01:21:43,720 --> 01:21:48,720 of get bogged down on, you know, what is exactly does the horse 1388 01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:52,880 imagery mean And look at every other case of a horse on Shabbat 1389 01:21:53,080 --> 01:21:55,560 right within the story. You try to figure out what it's 1390 01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:59,040 doing and how it relates to the other sections of this story. 1391 01:22:02,160 --> 01:22:03,880 Right. Relates to the other sections of 1392 01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:05,000 the story. That's the key. 1393 01:22:05,320 --> 01:22:07,280 That's that's the key point. Right. 1394 01:22:07,280 --> 01:22:08,720 So we're we're. Yeah. 1395 01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:11,880 And you're right. And it's such an important point 1396 01:22:11,880 --> 01:22:15,680 because I can tell you myself, and I can tell you in general, 1397 01:22:16,160 --> 01:22:23,040 people tend to kind of read each part of the story and kind of 1398 01:22:23,040 --> 01:22:27,200 just go off a tangent with them not really realizing. 1399 01:22:27,200 --> 01:22:30,160 They'll they'll go like full pill pull on it, you know 1400 01:22:30,400 --> 01:22:33,520 they'll. Pill pull or even even a lesson 1401 01:22:33,520 --> 01:22:36,600 per Southeast. Like the way I understood it, 1402 01:22:36,840 --> 01:22:39,520 it's not Even so much about the lesson, it's it's about trying 1403 01:22:39,520 --> 01:22:42,920 to get to the story, to a certain place where they can 1404 01:22:42,920 --> 01:22:46,600 address the grand question. Yeah, yeah. 1405 01:22:46,600 --> 01:22:50,440 I mean, I I I don't totally say that you know, different parts 1406 01:22:50,440 --> 01:22:53,960 of the story cannot be analyzed on their own terms and kind of 1407 01:22:53,960 --> 01:22:57,480 related to other stories or holistic issues. 1408 01:22:57,480 --> 01:23:00,680 I mean, there's tremendous amount you could do with every 1409 01:23:00,680 --> 01:23:04,360 single, every one of those brush should be looked at in terms of 1410 01:23:04,360 --> 01:23:08,880 all the other readings of that verse and similar Dreschund and 1411 01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:11,680 so on. But what often happens is what 1412 01:23:11,680 --> 01:23:14,280 you're saying is people lose sight of the story as a whole. 1413 01:23:14,520 --> 01:23:18,200 So it shouldn't be mutually, it's not mutually exclusive, but 1414 01:23:18,200 --> 01:23:22,400 sometimes you know that you lose sight of the entirety of the 1415 01:23:22,400 --> 01:23:24,400 story. So you want to look at the story 1416 01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:30,280 also as kind of an integrated narrative unit and unity and, 1417 01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:33,560 you know, not loose, not sort of just go astray with all this 1418 01:23:33,560 --> 01:23:36,800 kind of pimple and kind of digressions all the time. 1419 01:23:36,800 --> 01:23:41,880 It's OK sometimes that'll then feedback into the overall, you 1420 01:23:41,880 --> 01:23:45,240 know, the overall story. But it is, it is one textual 1421 01:23:45,240 --> 01:23:48,480 unit and it is one integrated story. 1422 01:23:48,480 --> 01:23:51,760 So you have to read the whole thing to try to understand what 1423 01:23:51,760 --> 01:23:53,320 the storyteller is trying to tell us. 1424 01:23:53,640 --> 01:23:56,440 And just to make one final point, you could see by the end, 1425 01:23:56,440 --> 01:24:00,320 I think there's a relatively sympathetic portrayal of Alicia 1426 01:24:00,320 --> 01:24:04,320 Benavuya in this story. He's crying by the end, Rabbi 1427 01:24:04,320 --> 01:24:07,760 Mayer's trying to save him. Maybe he even does Tuva. 1428 01:24:07,760 --> 01:24:12,080 It's very hard to harmonize with that first story, the one the 1429 01:24:12,080 --> 01:24:16,480 interpretation of Docefta, where he kills children, you know, and 1430 01:24:16,480 --> 01:24:19,560 collaborates with persecutors. It's very hard to see Rabbi 1431 01:24:19,600 --> 01:24:24,520 Mayer like going to bat with A to bat for a person like that in 1432 01:24:24,520 --> 01:24:27,600 this story. His rebellion is against God, 1433 01:24:27,640 --> 01:24:29,520 right? He loses faith in God because of 1434 01:24:29,560 --> 01:24:32,800 theodicy. All his sins are de Madame 1435 01:24:32,800 --> 01:24:36,000 Macomb, you know, he's, he's, he's going outside the holy of 1436 01:24:36,000 --> 01:24:38,320 Holies on Yom Kippur. He's not harming anybody else, 1437 01:24:38,800 --> 01:24:40,400 you know. So every mayor is trying to 1438 01:24:40,400 --> 01:24:43,800 redeem him in that sense. I I guess it's a question you 1439 01:24:43,800 --> 01:24:46,400 could ask is well, what happens if he did more heinous things? 1440 01:24:46,400 --> 01:24:50,440 What happens if he, you know, if this Sinner actually did kill 1441 01:24:50,440 --> 01:24:53,440 young students of Torah, well, that jeopardizes merit of Torah. 1442 01:24:53,480 --> 01:24:56,440 But you know, I I don't know, the Bavli actually does flirt 1443 01:24:56,440 --> 01:24:58,520 with that a little bit. We'll see that when we when we 1444 01:24:58,520 --> 01:25:00,760 get to the Bavli. But at least the Yurasami's 1445 01:25:00,760 --> 01:25:05,600 answer in in this story is that you know this this rather mayor 1446 01:25:05,600 --> 01:25:09,560 who did the sins that he did in this story no matter what they 1447 01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:10,880 were. Although again they didn't see, 1448 01:25:10,880 --> 01:25:14,480 they seemed to be morbid on Nama Macomb never learned, lost his 1449 01:25:14,480 --> 01:25:18,320 merit for the study of Torah. One last question. 1450 01:25:18,440 --> 01:25:22,760 So in relation with Tosefta, you see the Tosefta, it doesn't 1451 01:25:22,760 --> 01:25:25,920 really give you an inkling of his personality. 1452 01:25:27,000 --> 01:25:30,720 All Dershami comes and we have a full-fledged personality on it. 1453 01:25:36,120 --> 01:25:40,800 So how do we understand? So, so the so the Tosefta is 1454 01:25:40,800 --> 01:25:47,360 really the Tosefta is really just focused on entering the 1455 01:25:47,360 --> 01:25:52,880 parties and you know the the fallout of of of trying to jump 1456 01:25:52,880 --> 01:25:57,120 too far in the, you know, mystical tree and Yoshami sort 1457 01:25:57,120 --> 01:26:01,520 of goes a whole different direction, not interested on 1458 01:26:01,800 --> 01:26:04,760 that at all and just comes into a whole. 1459 01:26:04,880 --> 01:26:08,120 New. Like, you know, designed story 1460 01:26:08,640 --> 01:26:11,120 that really has no at all to the Tosefta anymore. 1461 01:26:11,560 --> 01:26:13,880 Yeah, that section of the Yoshami is just interested in 1462 01:26:13,880 --> 01:26:17,720 interpreting the Tosefta. He gives us 3 interpretations, 1463 01:26:17,720 --> 01:26:21,280 does the best it can do. It's very hard to make sense of 1464 01:26:21,280 --> 01:26:24,880 because it's such a cryptic tradition, knows something bad 1465 01:26:24,880 --> 01:26:27,720 happened and plays with different scenarios and then 1466 01:26:27,720 --> 01:26:30,360 it's done. And this story, we don't really 1467 01:26:30,360 --> 01:26:33,640 know the origin and starts in medius race right in the middle 1468 01:26:33,640 --> 01:26:37,000 of the whole episode. Alicia Benabuya is coming by the 1469 01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:40,520 baby garage and he's already become a Sinner and he's already 1470 01:26:40,520 --> 01:26:44,520 Reverend Mayer's master. You know, that's all in the 1471 01:26:44,520 --> 01:26:46,600 background. But we don't know where this 1472 01:26:46,600 --> 01:26:50,480 tradition comes from. Yeah, we just can't trace it 1473 01:26:50,480 --> 01:26:51,520 back. It's here. 1474 01:26:51,520 --> 01:26:55,160 It appears to be Roshami, but already in a very, very highly 1475 01:26:55,160 --> 01:26:57,600 developed form. I mean, it's like I said, you 1476 01:26:57,600 --> 01:27:01,960 can see such a sophisticated narrative, which I think tells 1477 01:27:01,960 --> 01:27:05,080 me that the, the rabbis and Roshami were interested in this. 1478 01:27:05,080 --> 01:27:06,440 They were interested in this problem. 1479 01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:09,480 They were interested in this theological conundrum. 1480 01:27:09,880 --> 01:27:13,520 And at some point, they began telling the story and it 1481 01:27:13,520 --> 01:27:17,640 developed and it developed and it became this very highly 1482 01:27:18,160 --> 01:27:22,320 sophisticated, literally polished narrative that's also 1483 01:27:22,320 --> 01:27:24,680 very, very deep from a theological perspective. 1484 01:27:26,400 --> 01:27:29,200 Amazing. Professor, thank you so much. 1485 01:27:29,600 --> 01:27:33,320 We really enjoyed this and we look forward to the final 1486 01:27:33,320 --> 01:27:38,040 segment, God willing, which which is the story of Alicia 1487 01:27:38,040 --> 01:27:42,680 Gonabuya in the Talmud Bhavli. So we hope to see you soon. 1488 01:27:42,680 --> 01:27:44,320 Sounds good. Thank you both. 1489 01:27:44,560 --> 01:27:46,560 Thank you for your. Thank you. 1490 01:27:46,560 --> 01:27:48,560 Good. Night. 1491 01:27:54,440 --> 01:27:56,720 Hey guys, thanks so much for tuning into the Judas and 1492 01:27:56,720 --> 01:27:59,680 Demystified podcast. We really appreciate all your 1493 01:27:59,680 --> 01:28:03,560 support and your feedback. If you want to help us grow the 1494 01:28:03,560 --> 01:28:05,600 podcast, keep spreading the word. 1495 01:28:05,600 --> 01:28:08,600 Share with your friends, family, or whoever you think would be 1496 01:28:08,600 --> 01:28:12,320 interested. 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