Welcome to Judaism Demystified, a podcast for the perplexed.
Join us as we explore some of the most fascinating Jewish and
Torah related topics with our esteemed guests.
By tackling some of the biggest questions you likely won't find
addressed elsewhere, we aim to shed light on important issues
and inspire a return to the fundamentals.
Enjoy the show. Thank you for joining the
Judaism Demystified podcast. We are honored to have AMI
Kozak, comedian and host of the AMI's House podcast, Am I
Correct? Correct.
So that is a really, really funny and enlightening podcast.
And you are a personal hero of ours because of your nuanced,
thoughtful, courageous takes, and also just being somebody who
stands up for our people in such a such a pleasant and elegant
way. And it's really just an honor to
have you on. Oh, thanks guys.
I appreciate it. I look forward to demystifying.
All right, off to a good start. So I mean, I've watched a bunch
of your episodes and you know, we're we we see you often on all
these different channels like Candace Owens and and other
celebrity kind of podcast. We never we never really get a
chance to hear about AMI Kozak. Like what drew you to comedy
initially and how did you decide to pursue this career in comedy?
So it goes back to the roots of my creative endeavors were
actually music. I'm a musician, professional
musician. I've been doing music for 15
plus years. I've been saying 15 plus years
for a while. So it's probably longer than
that, but maybe I'm just forgetting my age.
But anyway, I'm a professional musician.
I studied music at the Berkeley College of Music.
I have a band called Distant Cousins and we've done a lot of
original music albums. Music for film and television.
I've composed for television shows, commercials.
My band has done work for DreamWorks and Netflix and we've
had a lot of songs and television shows.
And we recently actually are doing our first hybrid Hebrew
English album. The two other members have are
pretty big names in the Jewish world, Dov Rosenblatt and David
Swarski. Dov used to be in a band called
Blue Fringe. Divid is in a band called
Moshav, and the three of us started a band in LA when I
moved there back in 2011. So for the past many, many years
I've been very active on the music scene.
And recently there was sort of the neglected child of mine,
which was comedy. Comedy was always this thing I
did socially. It was a part of my personality,
but it wasn't really anything I was doing professionally for a
long time, mainly because there wasn't really an outlet for it.
You know, in the entertainment business, a lot of these things
are sort of siloed off. There are different lanes you
can pursue, but they don't really overlap, you know?
So I was really head on in the music business and doing music
professionally, doing it full time.
Comedy was always something I had as part of my identity, but
it wasn't until I started taking to social media, mainly TikTok
and then eventually YouTube and Instagram.
But back when TikTok was sort of fairly new, I sort of took the
opportunity to approach it slightly differently than I had
used social media before previously.
And I mainly used it as a promotional tool for the music
for the band to try to announce when shows were happening or
things like that. But all the creative stuff I was
doing was outside of social media.
So I decided to look into social media more as a creative tool
than a promotional tool and the easiest thing I could do.
After experimenting with a little and doing some musical
stuff, I started doing impressions on a daily basis and
showcasing that skill I'd always had but never had a public
outlet for. And once I started doing that
consistently, eventually several impressions popped off and
people got to see that whole other side of me and that child
that I had neglected, which was comedy started to get attention.
And yeah, built up a nice organic audience, especially
during COVID when a lot of stuff on the music side, sort of on
the live performance side shut down.
Things were all recalibrating. Built up in a really a nice
organic following on TikTok, which eventually translated over
to YouTube and Instagram till this day.
So once I once COVID ended and I was in LA for a little while
longer, I started doing more stand up and then moved to New
York and dove head first into the stand up scene there.
And then of course with the Jewish community, there's only a
few people out there who can do real Jewish, authentic Jewish
comedy. And that's when I started to
take advantage of my intimate close connection to the Jewish
community and knowing that world intimately as a Modern Orthodox
Jew, started the J sketch comedy trio.
And then post October 7th, everything kind of leaned in
full on onto the Jewish stuff. And that identity really took a
front and center approach where the advocacy and speaking out
about these issues with regard to Israel came in.
But that was more of a recent thing.
But in any event, that's sort of how it all came to be in the
podcast. Along the way was a nice
extension of allowing me to explore the different elements
of everything that I'm doing. But that's the long or short
story of my. Is music still like 1A or is it?
Has it moved kind of behind? Because I think most people now
know you for your comedy. Yeah, I mean, it's just the,
it's, it's, it's not moved. It's just the it's moved.
It's made room, you know, and I think publicly, yeah, because of
the power of social media. You know, it's interesting.
Social media with comedy was a little bit easier to do and
complimentary because the video that I post is the is the final
product of what I'm trying to do with music.
Often you're making records and you're performing and you're
writing and then you have to figure out how to social media
eyes it into a video creation thing.
With comedy, those things are sort of one in the same.
So it was always a little bit easier one.
It's like a solo thing that I'm just doing when I want to do it,
but also the what I'm doing in a, in a, if I'm putting together
some kind of thing like a video, the impression that is the
social media post where as a song performance, you know, that
exists outside of the video of recording of it.
So I think a lot of bands struggle with social media for
that reason because a lot of the creative energy is put into
writing, recording, performing, really working on the craft.
But video content creation is a whole other thing.
So learning that craft is, is necessary, I think, to succeed
on social media. So always working at that and
posting about it. And I think there's going to be,
there's some nice overlap as people are discovering because,
you know, it's funny. I mean, I've been doing music a
lot longer. But yeah, as you said, the the
attention that's garnered a lot more recently is the is the
shtick, which is great. It's all good.
Who would you say are your influences comedically?
I really like, you know, I mean I identify with the polymath
type comedians, guys who like are multiple sort of multi
purpose in terms of their skill sets, you know, even if their
comedy itself isn't my necessarily my style, but like a
Bo Burnham or a Reggie Watts or even Jamie Foxx.
Jamie Foxx Him does impressions, he sings, he acts.
He he he's an actor. He.
With Bo Burnham, yeah. Yeah, he can do anything and not
in that way really well. And I feel like in that sense,
when I see Jamie Foxx able to do all that kind of stuff rather
seamlessly, it's pretty inspiring to me.
Stand up wise as I mean, I love everyone from from the Bill
Burr, Louis CK, Patrice O'Neal and even the clean air comics
like Gaffigan. I say Seinfeld I really enjoy
most as a commentator of comedy. I really love his takes on
things. So I love what he has to say
about comedy. Trying to think of who else.
I always feel like I missed the I always that questions hard.
But comedically, yeah, there's, I mean, the whole range of of
different stand ups, the roast comics, Andrew Schultz, Tony
Hinchcliffe. So I'm I'm sure you're into like
then I actually recently saw Shane Gillis.
I saw Louis CK at MSG last year. I saw Bill Burr in Pharstons so
that was a pop bucket list. I like performance.
I like guys who are pretty like, you know, animated Sebastian
Manos. Picalco's are really, yeah, I
really love Sebastian. I love a lot of that stuff.
So I'd say the stuff that isn't my style, I appreciate the
writing of it, but like the generally the more deadpan, so
to Nate Bargatzi, those kind of stuff, the writing is great.
Stylistically, it's not my thing, but, you know, I can
appreciate it. But the the more mellow stuff, I
like the bigger bombastic stuff more generally.
Or like the real cutting or crass or, you know, yeah, but I
saw Jim Gaffigan live more recently and it just, it was
just incredible. So when you see guys really who
are just like alpha at their best peak at the so the top of
the game, it's it's really cool to watch Mark Mark Normand is
another one Mark. Normand he's great comedy.
Yeah, he's one. Of the comedy.
Get mystified. Got to get mysty mystified.
It's getting gross. OK, comedy.
Yeah. One, one of my favorite Jewish
comedians is Gary Goleman. He's like a word short.
He's he's he's fantastic. And and I think like among the
Orthodox, I think it's just like basically you and Elon Gold.
Am I missing anybody really in that in that world?
You got Modi, you got up and comers, you got Ellie Leibowitz,
who's a colleague. And he does your skits, he does
the. Skits, skits with me Dovey.
Neuberger's up and coming. You'll you'll be seeing more of
him. He was on mislabeled for a
while, that guy he. Was on his label, yeah.
You guys, are you on a game with mislabel impressions or is that
gonna get you in trouble? Yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna,
we're gonna get to the impressions at the end.
So he's. On yeah, Dovey and Mikey and all
the guys in sort of a there's a cool scene.
There's like, you know, I think people are really
unapologetically Jewish now and it's not uncool anymore.
And I'm and I'm glad to see that, you know, I don't think
it's hierarchical to be who you are.
It used to be especially for Jews.
We're such a people that we don't want, we always want to be
like, we don't want to be too Jewish for the masses so that
they we want them to like us. And I I really in a post October
7th world, it's like we have to stop doing that.
And, and, and there, there there's some first of all,
obviously you mentioned Seinfeld.
He's just stepped it up like in a huge way.
But people like Jon Lovitz have been so outspoken about Israel
and, and his pride of being Jewish.
And it's so inspiring. And, and you know that that to
me is just has been a revelation and I'm so happy to see that
happening. Why do you?
Think even like for even the from Jews, I, I, I credit guys
like Ben Shapiro who's rocking at Keepa the whole time.
It's like, you know, there's always this notion that like
even the most religious Jews, you know, it's, it's best kept
secret. By the way, did you know he's
Orthodox? So I think those days not
judging anyone, but like I, I have felt that I know a lot of
people feel that like, hey, I'm not I'm not going to ever.
I'm not going to violate Shabbos and I'm not going to go on
Shabbos or tour and I'm always going to keep kosher, but it's
just something people know about me privately.
And I think certainly post October 7th, there's there's
been a bit of a enthusiasm around just being proudly
Jewish, whatever form that is. And Orthodox especially like
which have been them, because the Orthodox Jew sort of has the
most to sort of have to contend with in terms of compromise and,
and things that come at odds with practice that you have to
negotiate and whatever. So, you know, I grew up in the
generation where you didn't wear your Yamaha to work.
I mean, everybody knew you didn't come in Fridays, you
know, you never compromised anything.
But you know, Yamaha to where you didn't rub it in people's
faces. And I find that, you know, you
know, today it's sort of like, I think stepping out of that a
little bit. And I, I, I think that's a
positive thing. And I think it also, I mean to
defend those people, obviously, I think it, you feel like when
you wear a keeper, it comes with a lot of responsibility.
And maybe you don't feel like you're on the level or
especially if you have a voice and people listen to you like
they're they're you're, you feel like you're being scrutinized.
So you have to be even more careful when you're in Kipa.
So like, you know, if you're, if maybe you feel like you're not a
Talmid Hassan, you shouldn't be, you know, saying what you want
to say. And, and I don't think that's
correct. I actually think what you're
saying is absolutely true. And it's a great, it's one of
the positives that has come out out of a post October 7th world.
Yeah. And it's a complicated thing
because in theory that sounds right, but then what are we
really saying? We're saying we're all not just
going to act up to this standard, but maybe, maybe we
should look internally and say maybe, maybe as a community, we
can leave a little room for people of different stripes to
still be connected to still sporty yarmulke if they want to.
And maybe that's our own judgment that needs to be
tweaked, or our own judgmentalism.
Yes, absolutely. Yeah.
And, and obviously, you know, like we know this, that there's
so many different labels put on Jews today and among, you know,
just from ourselves what we put on other people.
Just like, you know, there's the the rationalist and the, and the
Mystic and the hussid. And these are just ridiculous
labels. And I'm I'm happy that you know
this is being addressed finally. Perhaps it's perhaps it's not
the the fact of wearing a Yamakan public and worrying
about what might happen is really being worried about the
community's judgement upon thee and upon oneself.
And maybe the community needs to be a little less judge mental.
Not to say we shouldn't have standards, but maybe everyone
needs to chill so that way more people can wear a Yamaka proudly
without fear of misstep, you know?
Well said. And so, so why do you think
there's been like a historically, there's been a
historically disproportionate number of Jewish comedians and
how has your Jewish identity influenced your comedic style
and like material? Certainly a history of pain and
suffering necessitates coping mechanisms in humor is a coping
mechanism to deal with the tragedies of life.
So when you're a historically oppressed people, you develop
good mechanisms for lifting each other's spirits through dark
times, you know, So that is probably a big factor.
Immigrant populations with large families is another one.
Italians are probably pretty funny too.
You know, anyone who's got a big family, you know, knows that you
got to develop thick skin, and you got it in order to fend off
attacks from siblings and hold your own.
And if you have a lot of younger siblings and the younger and
younger, down you go. The research shows that, like,
the younger siblings have to be funny to stand out for
attention. Older siblings tend to be a
little more stoic. Oldest children certainly take
on responsibility, but the youngest child is usually the
funny one. I'm the youngest child, so I
think that's a part of it. Having big families, having
communities that are cohesive and close knit allows for people
to be comfortable and people to be sort of open and honest with
each other so that one can be, you know, the whole riffing and
roasting and being able to take a joke as a sort of core Jewish
characteristic I think is a product of tight knit
communities that have made it through the ages when a lot of
people have sought to do harm to those communities.
So art is a lot of times born out of suffering.
Comedy as well, and learning how to be adaptable.
I mean, humor and charm and those skill sets socially that
Jews have had to use in order to survive have certainly developed
over time. Combined with robust education
and being informed, which humor requires, as well as a certain
sort of basic level of intelligence and insight.
The combination of scholarship, social adaptability, to be able
to survive in various environments that were hostile.
That's just a hunch of as to why we've cultivated such a strong,
sharp sense of humor. And then when you're raised in
that culture that values that you tend to lean into the things
that your community values. So the competition to be funny
or to be able to hold your own verbally has probably developed
a that's probably one of the been the contributed factors.
These are all just kind of insights, I'm not like basing
this on. Deep.
Deep scholastic research, but it seems to be the case that, you
know, I don't know, I remember, you know, you're growing up and
even for my own story, you got a bunch of grandparents around
and, and they just basically sit around and schmooze all day.
That's like all they do or they play cards and, and, and, and
when you do that, like, what are you doing to keep each other
entertained? You're joking around and they're
doing it in Yiddish. And then that translates.
And then the, the, the sort of admiration for comedy, for
skills I used to have to, I'd be, I would constantly be
summoned to do impressions for my parents, friends and things
like that. So that's culturally encouraged
too. And then you have the whole, you
know, the Jewish sort of impact on building up Hollywood and
entertainment and the arts and things like that.
So, you know, it's all those things that sort of foster a
culture that brews comedy. That really brings to mind, you
know, one, one of my favorite movies, which I think every
generation can relate to and every culture can relate to is
My Big Fat Greek Wedding. And you, you can, you can see
them as like a Sparty family, an Italian family, Greek.
And like you said it, it has a lot to do with, you know, being
from a culture that has its value of like a family unit.
That's such an important part of it.
And it's just like it. The message is, you know,
universally felt by everybody. Yeah, So absolutely.
Let me ask you, have you had any challenges being an Orthodox Jew
in that comedic culture and world in?
What sense like because things get like dirty or raunchy or
stuff like that. No more.
Maybe like more like anti-Semitism or just people
making like uncomfortable comments to you or just the fact
that you're loud and proud Jew in that world, because there is
that fine line. Yeah, you're taking you have to
take a joke. But at the same time sometimes
like is this personal? Is it?
Anti-Semitism is not a problem in comedy.
You know, that's where everything is OK, because people
are joking around and people aren't being serious.
So it's when it's when people are being serious that it's a
problem. You know, Chappelle, Chappelle's
Holocaust jokes or first couple of jokes in his monologue about
Rosh Hashanah. It's Shanna tomorrow I want to,
I want to take off. You know, those were funny.
Like those Jewish jokes he was making were funny.
They were jokes. It's when he got serious about
halfway through the monologue that things got very disturbing.
You know, it's all the sudden when, when someone's not joking
and they're just making a point. And there's no punchline that
you become suspect. Like, what's that supposed to
mean? Like, you know.
Well, he's kind of like a philosopher slash social
commentator. Also, it's like his jokes to me
at least they don't he he makes you think.
It's like George Carlin kind of you're not you're you're he's
when he speaks, he he he's not just a comedian.
So I think sometimes. That yeah, yeah.
But but even Carlin, even the commentary stuff, it is, is, is
revealing kind of truthful elements.
But they they are, they are and they're provocative.
But like, that's different than that's different than like just
making a serious point Stump, like just making a serious
point, you know, so you don't see it when you're a comedian
and people make Jewish jokes that even if they're like
disparaging or making fun of Jews, that they're making fun.
That's the point. Like you're trying to make fun
of each other for and then it's, you know, ascribing malicious
intention. Malice has to do with intention
and not what people are saying, but what they what their
intentions are. You know, if somebody in a club,
you know, called me a money grub and Hebe as a joke, it might I
might laugh because it might be funny.
Lisa Nunpinelli had a set where she made fun of everybody in the
crowd, including the money grub and heebs.
But it was hilarious because she had this whole like, what's the
worst thing I could say about each group kind of thing?
And that's a nasty line. And that's what's funny about it
because it's like trying to think of creatively the worst
versions of what people could say.
But they're not. I don't come from a place of
hate or malice. They come from a place of humor.
So that's what sometimes makes you go, oh, because you reveal
certain truths about the world, but your intentions are to make
people laugh about them. But comedy has to have tensions
of truth. So stereotype jokes, racist
jokes, you know, racial jokes, I should say, not racist jokes,
racial jokes, Holocaust jokes, you know, jokes about death,
jokes about life, jokes about kids, jokes about the worst
elements of society and the best things.
They're all jokes. And that's the point.
I'm so I don't experience that in the from comedians
necessarily. Now in the entertainment
business as a whole, you one could argue that like the on the
industry side of things, less so the creative.
But you know, post October 7th it gets more complicated.
I have seen obviously you have your like pro Palestinian
comedians who are annoying and who, you know, I've lost some
respect for, for some of the views I've seen people take, but
like not because they've made bad jokes, but because they have
bad takes and bad positions outside of their comedy in the
industry as a whole. The general apathy and
spinelessness and moral confusion or cowardice of the
general apparatus has been really disappointing and kind of
pathetic to see so many people thinking that it's complicated
or brave or courageous to speak out against anti-Semitism, as if
that takes some sort of bravery sort of as indicative of like
what is wrong with the general like culture and sort of
entertainment And, and outside of it, like the fact that there
are certain only few people you can pick out of a handful that
would that are willing to say anything.
So that's disappointing. But that's less about like being
a comic and being around other comedians.
I mean, comedians also want to be able to say what they want.
So they value free speech. They value things that really
don't fall on the whole woke left agenda.
It doesn't comport so well because the people who I think
are the most anti humor right now in our society politically
is probably the woke left. Some on the far right sure, but
woke left ideas are much more ascendant in the culture.
And who is the most? Where is the place where humor
goes to diets to me in wokeness, where speech is violence and
violence is resistance. So.
Yeah, I mean, it's often viewed as the comedy is often viewed as
like one of the last bastions of free speech.
So you have an important role to play in society.
I think comedians today have a very unique role in society,
like people like Bill Maher and and, you know, others like that.
Yeah, I mean, Bill Maher's also kind of toes the line between
comedian and and like a commentator.
I mean, you know, I I actually like his show.
I've been fan for a long time, watching for many years.
His comedy is just like, but I don't, I'll wait till you laugh,
you know, I don't know, you know, like they're just kind of
his takes. But I appreciate the format, you
know, so yeah, yeah, I appreciate that format.
It was sort of podcasting before there was podcasting is what the
real time is. You know, it's a little before
it's time, but I always appreciate the format.
So your plan, I'm assuming your plan was not initially to get
into politics at all, but because of October 7th that kind
of catapulted you into this, you know, this world of, of let's
say, get it going on podcast like Daily Wire, Candace Owens.
Is that something that like you wanted to do early on your
career, Like I, I want to become kind of like a social
commentator or was it just something that just happened
naturally? Not really.
Yeah. I mean, I always had a polit.
I always had opinions amongst, you know, friends and I I always
liked ideas. And I was a hobbyist about
economics and politics, but that wasn't what I wanted to do from
an entertainment standpoint or to build an audience around.
And I find that sometimes, no matter which side of the aisle
you're on, when you create a whole audience around those
ideas, you really become trapped by your confirmation biases and
your audience capture very easily because people want you
to retain and hold certain positions, which makes you
inflexible to listen or to be open to anything other than the
ideas that reinforce your audience.
So it's a tricky game. Today, as I started doing more
podcasting and building up that audience, I was able to expand
more and talk about more ideas. And, you know, it's, it's a
little more of a range of things that can go deeper on particular
issues. But yeah, I, I don't, I still
don't consider myself really political.
I'm not going to, I don't, I don't feel compelled to go on
and talk about JD Vance necessarily or an abortion bill
or whatever. That's not really what my public
persona aims to do. But after I told her 7th, it was
a, it wasn't a political stance, it was a moral stance.
It was like, you can't exist in the world of entertainment or
content creation that doesn't respect basic morality and basic
humanity. And if people couldn't see what
happened on October 7th clearly as a battle between good and
evil, you know, I felt like comedy's days were numbered.
And I'm not going to not do comedy, but I felt the need to
speak out about it. And obviously it's close to
home. So this was my issue as opposed
to other issues that may have been politically charged that
weren't close to home. Everyone's entitled to have
particular issues that resonate with them in a different way,
you know? And I'm sure if I was, if I was
a Uyghur Muslim and I would have spoken out about that on my
comedy channel earlier or something, just because I would
have been closer to that issue. Or if on a whole whole host of
issues, if something hit close to home, maybe I would have
drawn that line there. But again, yeah, post October
7th to me just seemed like a real earth shattering moment of
not just the event itself being so horrific, but the world's
reaction to it, both in apathy and support.
Which led me to understand in a very kind of dark way, but
crystallizing way how, how, how, how the Holocaust itself was
justified and happened. All you have to do is tweak the
language and tweak the purse tweet and confuse people enough
to think that evil is good and good is evil and everything was
backwards and convince them that they're doing something virtuous
by supporting Camas or and calling it resistance.
So it just felt like we all kind of woke up in a in a world we
suspected may have been there, but certainly realized was worse
than we thought. No matter what side of the
political spectrum you're on. Certainly the Jews left the
center had a massive wake up call.
Those are the right kind of had a told you some moment.
But I think it's it was even worse and more shocking than any
of us could have imagined to see people in the streets of New
York City or across Europe or the West or our universities
praising October 7th and Hamas as a glorious day of resistance,
which we saw so explicitly that how could, how could anyone not
say anything was was something you could not, you could not
avoid. The the scary part is, is that
there is there are intelligent people that are taking these
lines. You, you went on with Candace
Owens, you know, she she's an intelligent person, you know,
and it's hard to understand how things got here.
You know what I mean? Like it kind of, I guess, I
guess the keen observer can can see the, the build up to this.
But like if you're just looking at it, it just seems like all
this just happens. It's it's weird.
Yeah, I mean, we take for granted how close we are to the
issue in a sense. And there's a lot of informed
knowledge and there's a lot of stuff that you've come to
understand is propaganda and, and the perversion of language
that to a complete lay person who's totally ignorant on the
region, the history, you know, if you look at it like another
Russia, Ukraine and you think Israel's Russia or vice versa,
You know, when Russia, Ukraine happened, I remember thinking to
myself, oh, so everyone's just putting up Ukrainian flags now
because it seems very obvious who the good guys and the bad
guys are. And I'm not taking a position on
this, but I remember seeing that.
It seemed very clear to me, but I know that there were people
who were like, and as time went on, people were like more
sympathetic to Russia. And there were people who were
like, no, no, no, you don't really understand what's going
on here. Now, I'm not taking a position
because I'm not that informed on the issue or what led up to
Russia invading. And it seemed very clear to me
that Russia was invading a sovereign country.
But I think people were mindlessly throwing up Ukrainian
flags in the same way they're mindlessly throwing up
Palestinian flags. I'm only equating the fact that
people are taking positions publicly with very little
knowledge of an issue. And Candace is very, very
uninformed on the issue. And that was very.
Passionate about? She's very passionate about
something she's not informed about.
Well, no, she's, she's very, she's very passionate about not
being pressured into believing something that or, or agreeing
with something that she doesn't know much about.
So it's really, and I'm not defending, I'm explaining it's
that if, if you are in an environment that's telling you
that, that there's a consensus around.
I think a lot of her in, in her case, there was a, it's more of
an issue of temperament and ignorance.
So if she feels a certain pressure and then lacks a
certain understanding of the issue, she gets very reactive.
And then if she gets attacked for the wrong reaction, gets
very defensive and it's sort of spirals and then gets more
provocative and then double s down.
So I called her out for a very ignorant tweet.
And then she invited me on. And then we continued the
conversation, which I thought was at least, you know, the
first time we spoke was a pretty constructive one.
And most people thought like, oh, you know, they tried to give
me the win like you, you know, for, for winning the
conversation. But I didn't, I didn't actually
take it that way because most of the time to my points on our
first conversation, she just said, oh, oh, I, I didn't, I
didn't know that. I didn't think about that.
And if you watch the conversations, it often times is
very much drawn out that, you know, where when I'm engaging
with someone like her, you know, there we have two ways to
approach objectionable speech. You know, we can go into our
siloed corners in the Jewish community, write a smear
article, pat ourselves on the back and say, haha, called her
out. Or we can have the intellectual
strength and fortitude and confidence to either engage with
these people directly but not be afraid of objectionable speech.
It doesn't make it less objectionable, less wrong.
But how can we do it? Can we go in our corners, give
ourselves high fives and try to run away or whatever?
I mean, there's obviously I draw the line at certain points and
there's certain people I wouldn't engage with who are
just purely malicious and purely hateful.
But when we hear objectionable speech, to engage with it,
challenge it, is not to condone it.
It's the opposite. And I think it's, you know, we
have two ways you can go about it.
What do you think is going to do more harm or more, more good?
Like what makes what makes a better case?
Did the idea stand on their own? We we shouldn't be afraid.
And are we, are we so fragile that if we see something like,
oh, even something as like silly as some Holocaust minimization,
which is atrocious and terrible to do.
But if it comes from a place of ignorance and not hate, maybe
it's easier to fix by by addressing and engaging it.
Because hate is harder to fix than ignorance.
And I've maintained for a while that a lot of it is rooted in a
lack of understanding and lack of awareness, and certainly an
insensitivity. But if you scream at that and
then write hit pieces and don't agree and and don't engage, then
you may just make the problem worse, not better.
I don't know. I can't say definitive
definitively, but we've seen both approaches, so you tell me.
I think the flip side of the whole woke culture is kind of
this red pill culture on the right, which is like where I
feel like, especially after, you know, COVID, there's there's
this feeling of like, Oh, well, one conspiracy turned out to be
maybe true. So now that leads you into kind
of believing in every single conspiracy.
That's why you start hearing innuendo from people like like
Candace Owens about like Francis and Sabatin's.
But Oh, I'm not talking about Jews, but but I am talking about
Jews, but I'm not saying Jews or the Rothschilds and all these
things start, you know, coming out into the open as if like,
like when have you ever met a Jew who like says I like George
Soros, but like that's always used against as if he's the
prototypical Jew. And the issue I had with like
having you on is not only do I feel like the her audience is
kind of dead set on, you know, basically conspiratorial
thinking because the comment section just overwhelmingly is
anti Jew it seems like at least. Yeah, yeah.
But she would have someone like, well, I had my token Jew on, OK,
or some rabbi who's kind of, I'm not going to say names, but you
know, the rabbis that she has on her kind of like clown shows.
So she has these people like kind of set up to lose in a way
or look like fools. And then she has a comedian on
and then Norman Finkelstein. So how'd you should bring on
like Benny Morris or like Coleman Hughes?
Not, not, not, not a obviously you did a great job.
But I'm saying that at first when I saw it was like, why is
she bringing Norman Finkelstein and a Jewish comedian and saying
this is like equivalent. So to me, it always felt like
there was a slant over there that was very, very there was a
lot of innuendo. There's a lot of, you know,
conspiratorial kind of messages, but she gaslights in a way
where, you know, if you if you even question her, she has this
type of like, you see, Jews are so sensitive Jews.
It's always about anti-Semitism. And now slowly, slowly it's
coming out, you know, she's putting out these new videos
mocking Jews and the way they talk.
And it's just like, you know, I don't know, is it worth it to to
engage with these people when, you know, like the audience is
kind of set in their ways, you know what I mean?
Yeah, I do. I mean, like, I don't do her
booking. So yeah, I don't know what, you
know, you're responding to a persona and not a person
necessarily. You know, you see a lot of
theater and it's perfectly legitimate to react that way.
I certainly would if I didn't, if I wasn't on the inside.
As far as like, you know, when we see Twitter theater and when
we see social media theater, it's going to give a certain
impression. But what if I told you it's just
like, all right, so let's who else can we have on?
Is there anyone else who's like Jewish but pro Palestinian?
OK, Norman Finkelstein, who's the ISO professor.
OK, let's talk to him. OK, what anything else?
Oh, there's this cool story about this.
OK. Like a lot of this stuff is a
little a little less thought out than you think in terms of
trying to send a message or trying to be so shrewd.
And my, my understanding is a lot of the stuff in the Internet
world is, is sort of more shooting from the hip and just
being intellectually curious. But like, like, that's a
gracious way of putting it, but I, I think you, you're
attributing a lot of these things.
Like, we know everything about Norman Finkelstein because he's
old news to us. We've watched him debate
Dershowitz since 2001. I don't think Candace did
necessarily. That's my hunch.
I think she was looking. And of course he was willing to
come on. I don't know if Coleman would be
willing to come on. I would like to see that.
Or maybe it's a waste of time because maybe it's just too
theatrical and whatever, but I don't care about the tokenism.
Look, everyone's like, why are you platforming her?
Why are you doing that? I didn't build the platform.
You could talk to other people about that.
Other people built her platform, not me, you understand.
And I don't have to name names here, but we all know how that
came about. So don't talk to me about the
fact that there's millions and millions of people now that take
that are there responding and that she's having impact on and
they're there. So it's there.
So I'm going to go and make a case and if I don't feel like
doing it or I don't feel it's going to be constructive, I
won't do it. But you can only assume someone
has you on in good faith if you're actually going to go on.
Otherwise you're just performing a conversation.
If you go there with an agenda or to try to see the hidden
meaning behind things and not actually forget about
questioner, but ask real questions like what's what do
you, what's really going on? If you notice by the end of our
conversation, she said obviously like Hamas is terrible and
obviously like Israel should do what it has to do.
I just like I'm apathetic to it because I'm not connected to the
issue. Yeah, I remember that.
Now, she would never say that to anyone else necessarily.
She wouldn't make that kind of concession necessarily because
everyone's coming at it from an attack position and not a
conversational position. And so the defense mechanisms go
up, but I consider it a success and constructive for for her to
say something like that, which she didn't stress for a long
enough, which made it better, I think, which I think eroded the
trust with the Jewish community in a lot of ways.
So for her to say that at the end of our conversation and sort
of understand where I was coming from, at least in that moment,
it felt constructive. What happened since then I can't
speak to. And yeah, it's disappointing to
see obviously exposes about Holocaust stuff and Mangala and
all those things. But I think a lot of that stuff
is also, you know, yeah. I mean, I don't control her
editorials and her booking and who she chooses to have on.
But yeah, skepticism for skepticism's sake without
critical thinking and evaluation can lead you to some places.
But we're big boys here, you know, we're big boys and we're
big girls. And we can say that's that's if
you believe in free speech, it doesn't mean you condone by
engaging. And we can call it out and we
can say, yeah, that's wrong or that's incorrect, and here's
why. We've had this conversation
before, but the audience is already there.
And I didn't build it, so you know.
You did an incredible job. It was it was just amazing to
watch that conversation. As a community, we all thank you
because it was it was needed, it was important and it was time.
It was a very important juncture also in terms of the war and
what she was going through. And you know what I mean?
It was beginning with a breakup with, well, it didn't happen
yet, but at that time, yeah, you know, a lot was going on in her
life, too. It was like a critical moment.
And it was. It was a great interview.
Yeah, thank you. I mean, so where it leads, you
know, what can I tell you? I don't know.
It was I I certainly know what happens if you do nothing or if
you certainly silo yourself off into a corner, pat yourself on
the back, give your own people who already agree with you a
high five and and completely ignore it when there's someone
who is possibly engageable and curious enough to hear you out.
You know, she had me on the show, you know, uninterrupted
for an hour, unedited. I will.
You know what I mean? So.
With those opportunities coming, you can actually try to
understand what's going on, you know?
For the out of curiosity, just out of curiosity, have you had
any follow up kind of communication with her sense or
that was it? Oh, she's here?
Yeah. Candace, you want to talk to
her? Yeah.
No, just Pesach, Sater and a Finchamus, but otherwise I'm.
I think I'm going there actually for Rosh Hashanah.
No, I no, I was on the show twice actually.
So the first time was November and then the second time I had a
debate with another comedian and we talked about it and then we
had a Part 2 of that conversation was all filmed at
once. But but you know, I do think if
I'm going to say anything like she is sort of that like free
speech absolutist, more speech. So she's like willing to talk to
anybody and sometimes to a flaw to a fault where like there's
certain people that just, you know, I think in the free speech
and in the response to cancel culture and wokeness, sometimes
the free speech absolutism of everybody, just because somebody
can say something legally means everything they say has some
legitimacy. I don't think it's true or has
is worth listening to. I don't necessarily think it's
true. So there's confusion there that
sometimes happens in the circles of sort of the reactionary
position to the cancel culture where you can't say anything or
any joke or comment must be deemed evil or violent.
On the opposite extreme of that is every single view is
legitimate and must be heard out, you know, and that's where
you sort of get to that pendulum.
But assessing where it things are in between and how far
things are going before they go down a full on rabbit hole is
sort of a, you know, a personal choice.
I get, I get that people don't want to that don't find it
productive or engageable and that's that's their prerogative.
I get it. But.
I think what you're you're what you're doing is unbelievable.
And I think that, you know, we live in a unique time where
people have become like the brands and people like
influencers have a real voice like your, your next door
neighbor's mother, you know, is has a 20,000 followers on
Instagram. And those are the voices now you
hear coming out advocating for the Jewish people, advocating
for Israel in a time where we kind of feel like we need to.
Where is this where the rabbis who are speaking for us and why
is that rabbi speaking for us who I don't feel represents me?
So it's really, it's really unique to have, you know, people
like you, you know, have such a powerful voice today.
I just wanted to say that, you know, Thanks.
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So and the the last thing before
we get to the last, we're going to get to the next segment.
But before we get to the final segment, I just wanted to ask
you what message you have for young American Jews and non Jews
during this challenging time of rising global anti-Semitism and
anti Zionism. Quick Yeah.
I mean, it's a spooky time because you never really know at
what point in the history chart you're at.
Like are you, are we at the point where the Jews were like
comfortable, but things were coming in 1938 and they have to
bounce and they got to leave where they're at and leave the
land that you're comfortable in and go to the land that I will
show you. Because this is like happened
many, many times before in our history where anti-Semitism
reaches the threshold where it's time to go, like stay in fight
or time to go stay in fight or time to go supposed October 7th.
When you're looking at a world like that, what are what are we
to make of the UK and France and maybe down the road the United
States? Obviously you don't want to be
hyperbolic and hysterical and everything still feels like, you
know, we live in a world where social media sort of exacerbates
the sense of of our of like that that reality is actually, you
know, a dangerous place for Jews because Sam Harris like was in
an interview and said there was a poll of Americans recently
done. You know, if you want just watch
social media within social media, you get one read on like
the percentage of who supports the enemies of Israel and who's
and the anti-Semitism that's rising on Twitter.
But then you poll like 70% of Americans think Israel should
destroy Hamas completely and should be nothing but
successful. And that we for the most part,
the majority of Americans support the Jewish people and
support Israel. So we have sort of two different
realities. The reality that exists outside
of the digital world and the digital world itself, which
gives you sort of a false, you know, skewed perspective of a
false read of where things are at and everything is
exaggerated. Now, at the same time, it
doesn't take much in terms of a cultural shift for for, you
know, you can have a majority population that feels fine with
the Jews and then small focus minority that doesn't.
And things can change rather quickly if they're active
enough. So you have to keep your
antennas up. I think don't call everything
anti-Semitic that isn't anti-Semitic.
I think a lot of Jews on the left that through their, you
know, alliances and, and, and solidarity with groups that were
calling everything racist when it wasn't racist.
And adjacent to that, calling things anti-Semitic that weren't
anti-Semitic, you know, calling Whoopi Goldberg and Richard
Spencer the same thing doesn't make any sense.
And eventually it loses its cultural power.
And in a sense. Well, no, it goes both ways
because they also they called Donald Trump a Nazi, but then
when he gets shot, the president, the former president
is wishing him well. Why are you wishing Hitler well?
You. Know so I would say as Jordan
Peterson said be precise in your speech and make sure that when
you use intense labels to to to identify something it better be
worth the name. And so otherwise you're, you
know there's the cry wolf scenario where we if you call
everything something we, we can't see anything and we can't
determine what is really a problem and what is not if
you've spent years and years. I mean I'm not trying to victim
blame. This is only certain substance
of the Jewish community that I think have have have
participated in that where they use the terms too loosely.
But save it for people who really deserve the term and, and
don't be afraid to speak out. Not in a way where you shy away
from these things or just shun them and pretend they don't
exist. But if these things are out
there and they're gaining momentum, then you got to tackle
them. And you got to tackle them with
courage, pride and confidence and not with this sort of
reactionary siloing our ourselves away into an echo
Chamber of people who only agree with us.
You have to get a little uncomfortable sometimes.
And in terms of a rising anti-Semitism, I think the more
that the Jewish individual asserts his or herself as a
proud Jew in the same way the the Jewish state asserts itself
as a proud Jewish state, people get upset, but they respect it.
So, you know, it's like any relationship with any individual
between individuals. People get very resentful when
you don't let them use you or you don't let them abuse you.
They get upset, but that doesn't mean they don't respect it.
So collectively and individually, asserting yourself
and being proud and unapologetic and precise and honest and
having integrity might not have everybody like you, but it will
have everyone respect you. That's a great way of putting
it. And actually to touch on what
you said about, you know, 70% let's say are polled and saying
that they're pro Israel and they're and they want to come
off to be destroyed. But I think what is dangerous
and what we're seeing is like through, through, through social
media and through academia, they're like in engineering the,
the young generation to, to shift.
And I, I think those polls show that there's actually a shift
going on at least against Israel.
Like there's like, I think it's like 5050 right now.
It was never that to that point. So that is, that is definitely
terrifying. And when we see what's happening
in France and the UK, it's, it's terrifying.
Benci and I, we, we come from, you know, the machete Persian
community and our, our ancestors like a century ago were forced
converts and they were crypto Jews for, for a century.
They were, they were basically outwardly Muslim and they were
keeping their Judaism in secret. And, and then, you know, in
791979 during the rise of the Ayatollah and, and the, there
was a revolution in Iran, a lot of people, like you said, they
thought they were comfortable there.
And then all of a sudden they, they had to leave, they had to
move, not knowing the language. So like we're, I feel like
history has prepared all of us to have this like 1 foot out the
door readiness at the same time, like, like you said, where are
we on that, on that point? Because it's really it's.
It's hard to know. But your dad married an Oski for
sure. I mean, look at you.
There's no way. No, you're full on.
It's a It's a wonder. It's a wonder.
Somebody explained that to me. Are you kidding me?
You had to find out who the milkman was?
I have no idea. What is happening?
Some Eastern European dropped into into Tehran or what?
Machadi is different than Tehrani, right?
We have a lot actually we have we have light skin and and red
hair Machado. I thought that was the Syrians
who were the white passing sparred.
They have some we have. We have a bunch of light skin
machetes, so yeah. Not a lot, though.
You're not a lot. But we we have a decent amount
this new generation for sure. OK, you fooled me, but yeah.
So now the last segment we want to do just to, you know, just to
end on a funny note, is to to showcase your impression skills.
So we want to ask you questions in the character of certain
people you do impressions of. So the first one is going to be
for Jordan Peterson. So Mr. Peterson had Doctor
Peterson. How do you think individuals can
find meaning in their lives during such chaotic times?
Well, you know, I don't really like the way the question is
formulated. You know, it's like, well, you
know, that's that's that's quite something.
You know, there's chaotic times and orderly times.
You know, they exist on a fine line that exacerbates the
anthropological studies that beyond human existence that
leads to a spiritual realm between the dimensions of the
heavens above beneath the abyss below.
So to survive in that environment, man, that's going
to take basically everything you got.
So what else are you going to bloody do?
That's what I would say. Oh my God.
That was epic. Oh my gosh.
Donald Trump, what's your take on the current political climate
in light of the recent attempt on your life?
Well, you know, I don't believe in climate change except for one
thing. The climate's going to change
politically because they love me.
They love me so much. You know, in, in 2024, we're
going to have a political climate change that's going to
come in so strongly. You know that, right?
Because they love me, these people, they love me.
They tried to take my ear off, but that's OK.
I grew it back. You know, I can regenerate like
a lizard, even though the Democrats are the lizard people.
Gavin Newsom, he's a lizard. He, it's, it's weird.
He's weird. He's, he's a lizard person.
So is Kamala. She's she talks weird, she talks
in rhyme. You know that, right?
She talks in, she talks in rhyme like a poetry teacher.
It's terrible. And we're going to come in
strongly with a huge climate change like you've never seen,
but not the kind of climate, a political climate change.
But we're going to unleash American energy.
We're going to unleash it so strongly and we're going to,
we're going to clean up this border.
The borders is terrible. We're going to destroy, they're
going to destroy this country. If she wins, if you're a Jewish
person and you vote for Kamala or Biden or any of these people,
you should have your head examined because they don't care
about you. She doesn't care about her
husband. She beats him every night with a
stick. Nobody knows this but Doug,
Doug, Doug, Doug, what is it, Amorph?
What's his name? But he's a bait.
He's a beta male. They call him a beta male.
She beats him every night with a little stick.
I know this because they, I've heard from so many people.
We all know this. So that's what's going to
happen. We're going to have a political
climate change, not the real climate change nonsense the
Democrats are talking about. So that's good.
I need to breathe now. So, Douglas Murray, how do you
perceive the cultural shifts occurring in the West,
especially on college campuses? Well, I don't really speak
publicly about it, but so many people understand what's going
on here that on the universities, it could come as
no shock or surprise that the fall of the West rests at the
hands of these preposterous administrators that have been
poisoning the minds of young people for generations.
And I, for one, I'm getting sick and tired of it.
The public is very sick and tired of as well.
So I think that we're not really coming on to it and it's not
going to continue as long as the West sees rotten decay and moral
depravity. It's very strange, very strange
indeed. I don't understand why.
Yes and yes. Tell me why these faculty who
wear nothing but short sleeve button down shirts with unkempt
hair think they can educate an entire population that's going
to be completely I'll kept and unwell.
I'm tired of this ilk of these people who think they can run
society for us like philosopher kings.
I for one resent and I think most people in the West resented
as well is. Unbelievable.
Wow. Oh my gosh.
All right. Rabbi David Bashefskin.
Bashefskin, former former guest on our show as well.
What is the biggest challenge facing Shiva buckers today?
Well, The thing is dealing with Jewish particularities and all
of the things that the bucker of the dealing with.
I find that if you're going to hold in on the particular issue,
and you're talking about the shop types V in particular and
the messianic era in which people are striving to find a
way to these buckarib are doing nothing but pounding chilled
every single day. They're gaining weight like
crazy. There's a shit of crisis because
they don't understand the difference in social dynamics
between friendships and relationships, intimacy,
sexuality, particularity, unificality, unificality,
Asiatic, rabbinic. There's all sorts of very added
issues and I think tackling that together as a community, both at
an institutional and communal level, is where we're going to
find common ground. Oh gosh.
Oh, that. Was good.
OK, well. Last started off a little wonky,
but I found my way. Oh.
No, you found that was. That was probably the best one.
OK so label Wiener of mislabeled.
Who makes better food, Ashkenazim or Sephardim?
Well, I mean, a lot of people think that's why I make so much
food, but I don't know why I like it so spicy spine.
I mean, if there's so much spices, I I like the voltage.
I like John. Like show me a smart pier.
You can compare. You can compare swarming food
and Ashwagi food. I don't take Ashwin food every
day, every day, only anytime anyway.
If you can't make a good, then you're not like a real Joe,
sorry. All right, and last one, Prince
Harry, how do you think public figures can use humour to bridge
cultural and societal divides? Well, I would say that humour
can be very helpful. So you have to be careful,
especially between various cultures.
You know M and I, I live in a multicultural household and any
kind of jokes related to my family can be very helpful.
So we need to stop joking and take it very seriously because
unconscious bias is there in every single joke that I hear
and it's very hurtful. And I love my brother and I love
my family, but it's hurtful. God, it's so good.
You know, you know what I love about your impressions And I
appreciate certain impressionists who not, they
don't do the exact impression, but they find something in the
impression and they kind of like exaggerate it a little bit.
Like I think like Will Sasso, for example, he's like an
obscure kind of comedian, but he he does these amazing
impressions. They're they're like so
exaggerated, but they're funnier because he found something in
the in the impression that like no one else found, you know what
I'm saying? You know what I'm saying?
So I feel like you, you have that, which is really amazing.
And before we go, if you could just tell our audience where
they can find you. Yeah, I love will Sasso too is
his adjust event tour is incredible.
You know, I I used to live in the Bomji where I would do you
know he's great. I had five dogs and 67 catch.
Do you know about the Gulf of Tonkin?
His is better than mine. You can find me at AJ dash
comedy on Instagram. AJ dash comedy on TikTok.
Also, AMI Kozik officials names are synonymous AJ Dash comedy or
AMI Kozik official on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube.
You can follow me on Twitter at AMI Kozak.
My podcast is called AMI's house, the AMI's house pod AMI's
house on YouTube and my band is called Distant Cousins, Distant
cousins official on Instagram. We're releasing an album
actually in August. It will be on tour with
Matisyahu at the end of the summer, so stay tuned for that
and more stand up shows coming up this summer and throughout
into the fall. Follow on social media for all
of your updates. I mean, thank you for for
bringing joy to people. Thank you for standing up for
our people. Thank you for coming on to our
humble pod. We appreciate everything and
just keep growing, keep going, keep growing.
Amen. Thanks boys.
Thank you so much. Well, Tooth.
Yeah.