1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:05,560 Welcome to Judaism Demystified, a podcast for the perplexed. 2 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:09,320 Join us as we explore some of the most fascinating Jewish and 3 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:12,200 Torah related topics with our esteemed guests. 4 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,560 By tackling some of the biggest questions you likely won't find 5 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:19,000 addressed elsewhere, we aim to shed light on important issues 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,600 and inspire a return to the fundamentals. 7 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:27,760 Enjoy the show. Thank you for joining the 8 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:31,600 Judaism Demystified podcast. We are joined by Doctor Ruth 9 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,240 Calderon, the legend. We are so excited that this has 10 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,360 been months in the making. And before we begin, we'd like 11 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:40,960 to ask you to tell our audience a little bit about yourself and 12 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:43,960 your background. I want to say thank you for 13 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,720 having me here. I was looking forward. 14 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,320 So my name is Ruth Calderon. I'm in Tel Aviv. 15 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:57,640 As you can see, background I lived in, grew up in the same 16 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:04,760 apartment that I live in now. I studied in Tel Aviv. 17 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:12,480 I belong to the general public not not not to any religious 18 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:17,440 community in Israel. It's called secular, but not in 19 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:23,960 the American meaning of it. And I was intrigued by Judaism 20 00:01:23,960 --> 00:01:26,800 and was looking for a place to study. 21 00:01:27,320 --> 00:01:32,680 And Long story short, I found myself at the Talmo department 22 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:39,120 of Hebrew University, where I did my PHDI say sometimes that I 23 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:41,480 was the only one in the room without a beard. 24 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:46,120 And many things changed since then. 25 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:50,600 And today I'm the president of Alma, which is a home for Hebrew 26 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,640 culture in Tel Aviv. We do three studies. 27 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,040 We have a Batman draft that is just now beginning. 28 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,760 All the it's not exactly students. 29 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:08,440 The learners have come. And I'm part of the leadership 30 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,560 team in at the Mandela Institute in Jerusalem. 31 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:20,480 And I have a grandchild and the children and together with all 32 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:26,520 of us worried and sad and hoping that that there will be peace 33 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,680 soon and that everyone will come home. 34 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:30,840 Amen. Amen. 35 00:02:30,920 --> 00:02:35,280 We're all we're all with you. This is a terrible time. 36 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:36,680 Hopefully it's going to get better. 37 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,880 So leading I. Want to say the fact that we 38 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:44,080 are, that I know that you're with me and that we connect is a 39 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:48,200 great source of comfort. We are two alone here and every 40 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,920 meeting like this, and especially in studying Torah is 41 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:59,000 is a real boost of optimism. We feel the same way, you know, 42 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,160 we that we have people, you, you guys are the front lines 43 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,200 protecting us. You know, we're also, we feel 44 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,000 like we're in danger as well. There's some. 45 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:08,720 So many. The front line is moving. 46 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:09,920 Yeah. Yeah. 47 00:03:09,920 --> 00:03:11,880 Around the world, yeah. Absolutely. 48 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,320 So we wanted to now that you brought up your your upbringing 49 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,800 slightly, we'd like to get more into that. 50 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:23,160 You thank your father and mother for instilling you in you a love 51 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:27,120 for Torah in the dedication page of your book, A Bride for One 52 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:28,880 Night. Can you tell us about your back? 53 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,480 Tell us about how your mother and father instilled that love 54 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:36,120 of Torah in you. It's a very good question, but 55 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,040 I'm not sure I have such a precise answer. 56 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:45,120 How do we as parents, give our children any kind of, you know, 57 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:51,920 value or loyalty to something? I had parents from very 58 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,320 different backgrounds. My mother is Ashkenazi. 59 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,960 She came from Germany. She was brought up in Mana and 60 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,240 in Germany. Her parents came from Galicia. 61 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:06,480 And my father is the Sephardic Jew, grew up in Bulgaria. 62 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,720 His mother is from Turkey and his father from Bulgaria. 63 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:16,399 So the house was very rich in Jewish cultures. 64 00:04:17,519 --> 00:04:23,000 Different dishes, different different takes on holidays. 65 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:35,160 I was happy that both sides felt a bit like nothing inferior is 66 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:39,560 the superior for the others, so nobody got hurt. 67 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:43,200 The Bulgarians did not completely consider the 68 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:47,080 Ashkenazis as Jews, and the Jews didn't consider anyone who's not 69 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:50,080 from Germany as a member of culture. 70 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:54,800 So it was for me, it was funny. I think my, my mother took it a 71 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,680 little more. It was more challenging for her. 72 00:04:58,280 --> 00:05:03,400 And the thing I knew, although we were all not Alakhic, we were 73 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:07,360 traditional Jews in a way that is not Alakhic at all. 74 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:12,160 I know that the most important thing about who we are is that 75 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,600 we're Jewish. And there was a certain feeling 76 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:20,600 of loyalty and pride. My father would say, you should 77 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:22,720 know that you are the daughter of the king. 78 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:28,040 Like you wouldn't eat pork. You are the daughter of the 79 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,360 king. That was really, that was the 80 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:33,880 logic. And they never said this is not 81 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:39,120 allowed to us or forbidden. And I felt that for both of 82 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:45,360 them, being Jewish was a source of depth and and. 83 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,800 Identity. Identity, very deep identity. 84 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:55,800 And also because my father spent two years in the work camp for 85 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:00,160 the Germans in Bulgaria and my mother was a little kid in 86 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:05,080 Germany. They appreciated the, the good, 87 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:10,640 not not exactly good fortune, the gift of being able to live 88 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:16,280 in a free Jewish state and being feeling at home and raising us. 89 00:06:16,280 --> 00:06:24,520 As you know what they kind of looked up to Sabarim that we, we 90 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:29,840 feel safe and nobody hits us on the way back from school and 91 00:06:29,840 --> 00:06:32,480 that we have a flag and that we have symbols. 92 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:34,480 It was a very big deal for my father. 93 00:06:35,840 --> 00:06:40,400 Later, when I I did my service at the Knesset, I I thought that 94 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:47,360 he would be overwhelmed with the signs of Israeli serenity of the 95 00:06:47,840 --> 00:06:52,960 mineral wine, all its leaves. So they did not. 96 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,440 Both of them were very learned people. 97 00:06:55,440 --> 00:07:00,440 When there was a scientist in in agriculture, he was a specialist 98 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:05,640 of storage of agricultural products in the UN and of course 99 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,840 in Israel. And my mother, they spoke many 100 00:07:08,840 --> 00:07:12,120 languages. My mother read a lot and theatre 101 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:17,720 and and literature and so forth. But they know very little of 102 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,880 Jewish text. I think they know the stories. 103 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:25,480 Kaha kaha. Once a friend of mine called his 104 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:29,720 daughter Hagar. So my father said, how can you 105 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,680 call a, a girl in the name of a prostitute? 106 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,720 He said ABBA, she was not a prostitute. 107 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:42,040 So my dad said in the Bulgarian Bible she was a prostitute. 108 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,440 He did not get any Jews like serious Jewish education. 109 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:53,080 But he, I, we knew that that is the most important thing for 110 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:54,320 him. We did kidosh. 111 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:57,680 We couldn't go out before we come home and do kidosh. 112 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:06,240 I told you the reason to never eat work, at least in public you 113 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,440 would say so. It was not electric, but it was 114 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:14,840 very different. We are and and I. 115 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:20,760 Without speaking about it too much, I inherited both of them 116 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:28,480 and at the very early age I became very saccharinite. 117 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:33,000 Curious. Curious what is it exactly that 118 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,720 they have and we don't have We got a lot of Israeli education 119 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:40,480 and we knew the names of the birds and the flowers and we 120 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,159 took trips all over the country and you know we did all the 121 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,840 connecting to Yadiyata. It's not knowing the land in an 122 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:52,840 intimate way, but I felt they have something that is more 123 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:58,000 grounded, that is more with more gravitas and I wanted to learn. 124 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:03,320 And so they, Although finally, when I would come back from 125 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:07,080 school from the university and my father would ask me, So what? 126 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:12,160 Khalid Mishna is Talmud or Talmud is Gamala or he never got 127 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,680 that exactly right or maybe he was joking. 128 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:21,400 But I knew that I'm making them happy, although they were a 129 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:26,600 little afraid that I would go too far and away from them. 130 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:33,960 But I'm here in the middle. That's very beautiful. 131 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:35,720 Yeah. And and you're, you're, you're 132 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:37,800 describing basically a Sephardic household. 133 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,520 I was thinking about that. I was thinking about that. 134 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,640 Yeah, and only when you meet Ashkenazi religious Jews. 135 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:48,800 Did I ever hear that I am secular. 136 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,440 My dad would never say secular about himself. 137 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:54,480 Is a Jew? Is a traditional Jew? 138 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,280 No, we don't have that concept. It hurts us when these labels 139 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:01,880 get thrown like it's really something that is, it's it's not 140 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,040 something that's faradim that, you know, we, we resonate with, 141 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:09,160 we just don't it's a it's, it's a shame. 142 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,560 It's, I think we've spoken about this before, but it comes from 143 00:10:12,560 --> 00:10:15,800 like a denominational influence from Christianity. 144 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,040 And, and that's what we believe at least we're like, everything 145 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,440 has a category, right? And and you know the the famous 146 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,160 joke that when 2 Ashkenazis get into an argument, they're open 3 147 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:29,280 shuls, you know like. The one they don't go to. 148 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:31,560 Yeah. We, we, we don't, they don't go 149 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,560 to exactly. So we, we, we just don't have 150 00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:36,120 that. We don't relate to that at all. 151 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,560 So. And I enjoy being with Jews that 152 00:10:38,560 --> 00:10:43,000 are not like me. I don't want to be in a silo of 153 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,360 Jews that are all the same. What's the point? 154 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,040 I enjoy. Maybe because my mom was like 155 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,800 this and my dad, you know, the different grandparents. 156 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,920 But you know, the sweets in the Ashkenazi house are not like the 157 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:58,760 sweets in the safari house. I wrote a children's book about 158 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:06,240 the safari, the Dubishwat, the the little bag with a with a 159 00:11:06,680 --> 00:11:10,280 fruit, the fortas that we got when we were little. 160 00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:16,520 And maybe I'll show you some of my children's books were were 161 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:20,960 translated into English by PJ Library, but this one, I'm not 162 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,200 sure that was translated yet. I actually received, I think I 163 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,440 received that book from them actually, I guess it's. 164 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:32,480 Called the Sukichel Gagua something of longing about the 165 00:11:32,560 --> 00:11:35,720 little photos that I go I. Think I recall that book. 166 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:37,520 That's so. I didn't even put it together 167 00:11:37,680 --> 00:11:39,120 that it's you. That it's cool. 168 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,200 Did you get it when you were little kids? 169 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,920 A little bag with a date and a carob and. 170 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,600 School they would give us, they would give us like carbs and and 171 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:49,800 fruits. Yeah, for sure. 172 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:54,040 'Cause my grandfather would travel with two buses from 173 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:56,960 Holland to bring me the little plastic bag. 174 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,920 And I remember as a child that I thought that must be very 175 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:06,520 important to him to travel in two buses to give me one carob 1 176 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:11,760 date and one mish mish. Like what And and how 177 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:17,400 generations pass on even without so many words and not scholarly 178 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,480 discussions. What is really important to 179 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,640 them? To their grand grandchildren? 180 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:31,320 Very wise words. So we want to get into your book 181 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:32,720 a little bit. I have it right here. 182 00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:37,120 Ruth Calderon, a bride for one night. 183 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:40,480 You know why I love the the cover? 184 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,120 Look at the picture. So you have here a girl that 185 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,400 seems that she's a OK, so just for the audience, because you're 186 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:51,240 going to talk about it. It's an American photographer 187 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:55,600 from the 50s, Ruth, he'll tell me what's her name, What's the 188 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,840 last name. It was very expensive to get her 189 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,800 picture, so I wanted it very much. 190 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:07,000 It's called an American woman in Rome or in Italy, the picture 191 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:12,840 and you see a young woman walking in Italy with sandals 192 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:18,040 and she's kind of strong, but the only man in the street on 193 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:26,600 Vespas and, you know, so saying things to her and, and I felt 194 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:29,040 that first of all, I thought it's a beautiful picture. 195 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:34,040 But I felt that being a woman studying Talmud when I started 196 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:39,720 studying was like going in a street with all men and you are 197 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:44,760 trying to keep your balance. Also call it the barefoot 198 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:49,600 reading and she's with sandals there and staying on your track 199 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:54,560 and enjoying the company as as opposed to being scared of them, 200 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,240 so I'll tell. You something though, recently 201 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:01,600 we've had an explosion of of incredible women that have 202 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:05,000 written incredible things. We just recently interviewed 203 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,280 Gila Fine, Yael Ziegler. I don't know if you've heard of 204 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:11,000 her, Yael Ziegler, many more that don't come off the top of 205 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,720 my head, but really the the contribution of women to both 206 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:19,440 Tanakh and Talmud has been it's a big. 207 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,040 Revolution. I mean, I saw the the classes 208 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:25,640 where there was no woman in the room. 209 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,880 It was professor varied Noah. She was before me and she was my 210 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:32,680 teacher and friend. But then there were no women. 211 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:37,160 And today, like in every other profession, when they come in, 212 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,400 they they know how to. Work and having a female 213 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:42,160 perspective of things is important. 214 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:47,040 You're getting a very there's a there's a lot that there's a lot 215 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:51,120 that men don't either don't think about or not or not 216 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:55,440 concentrating on specifically. But a woman does have certain, 217 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:02,040 how do you say it like they have certain which, which, which 218 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:06,200 really contribute, but not just from just from the intellectual 219 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,080 standpoint, of course, that, you know, doesn't make a difference, 220 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:10,800 man or woman, right. So there's an intellectual 221 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,960 contribution, but specifically also from being a woman like 222 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,880 Gila Fine, what she did and whoever listened to the podcast, 223 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:23,880 which we hope you read her book because it's what she did it you 224 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,200 have to have a woman that's really looking at that. 225 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:28,200 You know what I mean? It's it's very difficult. 226 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,840 It's a perspective that only a woman can really dig into. 227 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:34,080 Exactly. So you know I wrote an. 228 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:39,720 Article in the 80s I was 20 something and I called it it's 229 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:46,760 it's a take on on Bialik and I said only half the people read 230 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:51,480 the book and it was given to what was given to 100% of us not 231 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:56,520 only to 1/2 and the Torah I wrote them is looking for is 232 00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:00,720 waiting for the woman's perspective of reading and I 233 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:06,840 mean and I think during the last 30 years I'm seeing it it's 234 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:08,680 really amazing and beautiful there's so. 235 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:09,960 Many. You're a big part of that 236 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:11,920 movement, I think. Yeah, to give you credit. 237 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,760 We're going to we're going to talk about that, that in your 238 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,720 your the Knesset speech, which we'll we'll talk about later, 239 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:19,880 which was revolutionary in its own right. 240 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:25,400 But now regarding your book, so in the introduction to your book 241 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,400 A Bride for One Night, you expressed that you are not 242 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:32,600 reading the Talmud religiously, academically or even 243 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:36,840 educationally, but rather as texts that have the ability to 244 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:41,680 move us, namely as literature. This was also the catalyst for 245 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,160 your plea in your legendary Knesset address, which we will 246 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,480 will speak by later, that the Talmud should be a part of the 247 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,760 Israeli curriculum and culture, regardless of religious 248 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:54,920 ideology, as these texts have something to say to the modern 249 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,080 Israeli. Indeed, whether you view Agada 250 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,800 as sacred or not, the author's desire to move us is an 251 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:05,040 unquestioned truth. Can you elaborate on your 252 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,160 methodology and those who inspired it? 253 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,800 Wow, it's like a question of tell me about your life. 254 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,280 Yes, I I was amazed when I met the Talmud. 255 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:23,200 I was 20, something very young, just of out of the army and for 256 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:29,320 the first time at Oranim College with Menachem Hirschmann, Mark 257 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:33,480 Hirschmann, he was our teacher and he made us learn by heart 258 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:39,480 the Rashi Tosvot and the the chapter we studied. 259 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,040 And I was just amazed that this text exists. 260 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,280 And I've never, I never met. I didn't know that. 261 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:50,360 It's so incredible. And what really moved me most 262 00:17:50,360 --> 00:17:58,080 was the literary depth, the language, the humor, the, the, 263 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:03,120 the, it's sometimes wild. It's kind of radical. 264 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:08,760 And like, who knew that this is what the rabbis are studying in 265 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:12,760 the Shibata all the time. They don't look like radical 266 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:20,000 literary. We must I and I felt like like 267 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:24,040 I'm finding a treasure and I have to bring it home to my 268 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:30,880 people, to the people in the Israeli community of literature 269 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,720 and art and music and film and so on. 270 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,760 It's like when you read a good book and you tell your friends 271 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:43,000 you must look at this. It's so, but the methodology, I 272 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,760 was a student of Professor Yonah Frankel. 273 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:50,960 He was, I think the first one at Eber University that studies the 274 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:58,120 legends as works of art. He would say it's, it doesn't 275 00:18:58,120 --> 00:19:00,200 matter if they put it in this sugiya. 276 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,200 It's not that it doesn't matter, but I don't read it as only 277 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:07,560 belonging to this sugiya because it it existed before it was put 278 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,040 in. It's like a it's like poetry. 279 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:14,240 You don't need to know anything before you start the story and 280 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:16,160 you don't know need to know anything after. 281 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:20,920 It's a work of art. And that amazed me. 282 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:26,720 And then he would just read with us these small jewels of I 283 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:30,400 remember the day he taught us that accord Safui. 284 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,720 And you know, you say it in Israel. 285 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,280 It's like something that you say 1,000,000 times in school. 286 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:41,320 And he said the courts are full is not that everything is 287 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,160 predicted, but that everything is seen. 288 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,240 There's the speech. Someone big eye is seeing 289 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,640 everything. And still you have the right to 290 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:56,760 decide what you're doing. Simple, just good serious 291 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:01,000 readings to the bottom of the text and I love that. 292 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:05,440 I was also studying with Ari Elon who was student of Franklin 293 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:13,680 few years before me and he wrote Almadid small short but not 294 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:19,800 small book of reading legends and I studied with both of them 295 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:26,320 and learned that meeting a short story in the Talmud. 296 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,640 Is the beginning of a relationship. 297 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:35,400 It takes a while to let it. It's like you get something very 298 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:41,840 intense and you need to fill it with water in order for it to 299 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:47,520 come to its right size. So, so as a student of Frank, 300 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:54,680 and I think at the time, again, it was in the 80s, early 90s, 301 00:20:55,520 --> 00:21:01,080 nineties, he was very different from all the other teachers of 302 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,720 the Talmo department. He was in the literature 303 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,800 department because they did not learn agada in the Talmo 304 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:09,640 department. That's Hebrew University 305 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:14,120 politics. But where in all the other 306 00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:20,600 classes we studied, you know where the sources are from and 307 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,320 is there a mistake in the you then maybe there's another 308 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:30,560 manuscript and so on, but did not touch the deep meaning of 309 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:35,160 things as such. It was much more technology. 310 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:41,040 Frankel got went straight into the values and that moved me. 311 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,280 And so I understood that we are taking all our tools from 312 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:49,040 literature. I did not study in the academia 313 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:56,360 literature, but that was that is what I love and and work with 314 00:21:56,360 --> 00:22:01,680 the same tools on Talmud. And it's funny to say today it's 315 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:09,400 a given for you, but it was new. And so I went and many of the 316 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,520 stories were not no one wrote about them yet. 317 00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:17,800 For example, I was very a young student still in Owani. 318 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:23,960 I noticed that Rabia Kiva and his wife the classic story of 12 319 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,880 years and 12 years that it comes with 24,000 students. 320 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:36,280 It reminded me of something and I thought that it is similar to 321 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:41,840 a very, very classic script play played by Nathan Alderman, who 322 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:48,560 is our greatest poet and and writer that is called Pundakal 323 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:53,960 Hot the Pundak. How would you say it in English? 324 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,880 The spirit Pundak is like an inn. 325 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:03,280 It's a classic story about a violinist that is very poor 326 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,920 living with his wife and he's leaving her at night without 327 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,960 saying anything because he wants to be a famous musician. 328 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,120 And they're too poor. And she wakes up and she says, 329 00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:16,040 no, don't go in hiding, I'll give you the money and go. 330 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:21,040 And he goes for 12 years and he comes back and he hears her. 331 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,120 Someone is mocking her. And she says, if you would ask 332 00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:27,240 me, can go for another 12 years. And he goes for another 12 333 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:28,960 years. And when he comes back, he's the 334 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,080 most famous violinist in the world. 335 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:35,560 But when he comes back to meet her, she already is coming from 336 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:40,040 the cemetery. It's it's too late. 337 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:45,680 And no one ever mentioned that this is the same story of Rabi 338 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:50,520 Akiva, 12 years and 12 years. And Rabi Akiva says, if I, if I 339 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:54,840 would have, I would give you Jerusalem of gold, which goes to 340 00:23:54,840 --> 00:24:01,160 the famous song Alterman says I would give you wings of gold. 341 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:08,240 I, I, I wrote an academic little essay saying this is the midrash 342 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,040 of that. And at that time, the secular 343 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:15,120 people that knew Pundako hot by heart didn't know of Akiva. 344 00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:16,120 They. Couldn't trail it. 345 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,760 Back of Akiva from kindergarten, never heard of. 346 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:24,400 So that connection is I feel where I work to connect this 347 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:30,400 treasure with these wonderful artists and people, not only 348 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,880 religiously and not educationally. 349 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:39,120 I meant I don't want to be like a kindergarten teacher that 350 00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:41,160 tells you what's right and what's wrong. 351 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:47,200 The text is much more cool and radical than that. 352 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,280 It's not a text of the good kids. 353 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:54,440 When Rabi Akiva says, when there's a question on what 354 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,120 ground can you divorce a woman and Betty Lennon that she might 355 00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:02,680 say if they if she cheated on you or if she burned your food. 356 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,360 Rabi Akiva says even if you found someone more beautiful 357 00:25:06,360 --> 00:25:09,440 than her, just don't stay here out of pity. 358 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:13,040 If you want to go, go. That is not educational. 359 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:21,400 Oh, it's not something, you know, not banal. 360 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,920 They're very not banal. And I feel that unfortunately, 361 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:31,000 many times when they are taught, they're taught in a kind of 362 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:39,200 Hamish not, not as wild as they are. 363 00:25:40,120 --> 00:25:44,400 I think that's what I meant. And also, you know, I'm not, I'm 364 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:49,840 not a rabbi. I am not telling people, giving 365 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,480 advice what to do. I'm appreciating a beautiful 366 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,240 piece of art together with with others. 367 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:03,240 And so I'm trying to understand the young woman that wrote it. 368 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:07,800 It's not me anymore. It's a what? 369 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,480 What are your thoughts about the fact that as far as 2000 years 370 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:20,960 ago, these these stages had the abilities and the and 371 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:26,200 specifically the methods of such rich literary texts, the way the 372 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,040 way they they presented, what does that tell you about them 373 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:34,920 from your perspective? They're a big mystery to me 374 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,960 because we don't exactly know who they are. 375 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,520 The most of their Godot are not signed. 376 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:47,360 There's like a hypothesis of hypothesis that they might be in 377 00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:50,920 the 5th century and maybe they're in Babylon, but who are 378 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:55,120 they exactly? And I imagine some kind of a 379 00:26:55,120 --> 00:27:00,000 literary circle like what is it called in New York? 380 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:07,240 The like a kind of a circle of people that had a language 381 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,480 together. In my PhD, I tried to claim that 382 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:15,920 if you see the hundreds of short stories or miniature stories, 383 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:22,920 they share language in the sense of wherever you will find a 384 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:28,480 cave, there would be a few dozens caves in stories. 385 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,480 In most of them, someone will go through transformation. 386 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:38,760 It's like a topo, and everywhere the matronita, the Roman matron 387 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,840 will appear, she's always the same character and what happens 388 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:47,840 to the rabbi with her is usually something vis A vis body, 389 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:53,880 sexuality, sin. When they meet the poor man, it 390 00:27:53,880 --> 00:28:00,640 would always be meeting chaos, meeting the other, meeting fear, 391 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:05,680 Sometimes the Angel of death, they would be the home owner 392 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:10,320 meeting the the other when they meet a baby. 393 00:28:10,360 --> 00:28:14,960 So I think that they created not only these beautiful stories, 394 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:21,040 these deep, profound stories, but a kind of a network of a 395 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:26,040 Gothic language and also landscape, as I wrote there in 396 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,960 the book that there is, it's like a map, it's like a world, a 397 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:35,120 little universe where all the stories happen between the bath 398 00:28:35,120 --> 00:28:40,120 house, the bed with rash and the bedding, the field, the house, 399 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,680 the second Storey of the house, the roof. 400 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:49,800 It's only there you can film the whole series in a little, you 401 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,360 know, scenery. And that's very modern. 402 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,800 It's very ancient, but it's very modern artistically. 403 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,760 Usually in every scene there'll be only two characters, a rabbi 404 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:06,640 and someone. Someone liking Greek tragedies 405 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:12,880 could be a group of someones, but it's always 2 and many, many 406 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,120 other things. I'm thinking about them a lot, 407 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,840 although someone will. Want to, well, you're basically 408 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:23,320 you're saying that, that, that you can track an internal, 409 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,600 internal logic and internal sort of language and world that they, 410 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,080 that it's almost like they created their own little 411 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,200 internal mental map that they, that they, that they, that they 412 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:38,520 used for to, to to channel through their values and ideas. 413 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:44,360 And but they did it within a, a sort of like an internal 414 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:45,520 language like you're saying, yes. 415 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,760 Like a whole world maybe. I don't know what it could be be 416 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:56,720 similar to, but that the people that knew the stories, the 417 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:03,200 audience didn't only know this rabbi and the the Roman matron 418 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,320 from this story, They remember. It's like a series. 419 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,120 The you know, the the beautiful and the brave, you already know 420 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:15,200 them. And in the seventh season, you 421 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:16,800 don't have to introduce them again. 422 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:21,840 If someone will come. We know that the coves, the the 423 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:28,560 person that washes the clothes that smells bad is the lowest 424 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,960 rank of professions you So it's a series like today. 425 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,880 Maybe you know, when we see on television. 426 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:41,160 And so there's something about this group. 427 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:45,600 It's not just personal stories. It's it's a, it's an amazing 428 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,240 creation. Yeah, they're, they're going off 429 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:53,800 of like known cultural motifs that people are familiar with 430 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,880 and they're constantly reusing those as like the the, the 431 00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:59,640 backdrop, right of the story. So. 432 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,280 In their special way. So a cave is not anymore just a 433 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,400 cave. The Israeli cave in the 434 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:11,440 Palestinian Talmud would be a cave with bats and flies and 435 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,880 smell the Babylonian cave. It is a magical cave. 436 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:24,720 It's a Walt Disney cave with the the the we seem the that the 437 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:29,040 carrot tree grows and the miracles and the water comes and 438 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:34,560 it's like sabbatical in I don't know what would be your 439 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:41,040 Greenland that you with your son and you it's so The Cave comes 440 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:46,160 out of what it really is in their history and their time, 441 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:50,760 and it becomes the Talmudic cave and yeah. 442 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,520 It's very interesting because you bring up The Cave, but I, I 443 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,480 was just thinking about always comes to my mind when I read 444 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,120 like the, the story of ABI Shimon going into The Cave. 445 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:01,960 They're similar. There's something similar that 446 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,320 connects it to Plato's cave, the store of famous Plato's cave. 447 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,120 And you know, because in Plato's cave, for those who don't know, 448 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,360 I might be butchering it, but the the idea is, is that there 449 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,080 are people who are facing a wall in The Cave and there's there's 450 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:20,240 light behind them and they're seeing these people who are 451 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,480 walking behind them. They're casting shadows on the 452 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,920 wall and the all tied. In. 453 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:27,000 Their hands all tied. Yeah. 454 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,840 They can't come out. And then one person escapes. 455 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:30,600 And then when he escapes, he sees, oh, my God, there's a 456 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,400 world out here that's unbelievable. 457 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,560 And he comes back to tell them that you guys are missing out. 458 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,320 There's really, like, there's an amazing world out there that you 459 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,440 don't even know this. These are all just images. 460 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,600 These are just imagination. This is not the real thing. 461 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,600 These are projections and they like laughed him off and like 462 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:48,160 you don't, you don't know reality. 463 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,440 We know what we see. We know this, this is our life. 464 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,400 And it's reminds me of almost like kind of like the rabbits 465 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,720 are in a way. I don't know if they were, I 466 00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,160 know they were exposed to to, you know, Hellenism and so on. 467 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,520 But they when they came out, whenever he's showing comes out 468 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,080 of The Cave, he also thinks he, he perceives reality a certain 469 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,680 way that that is not correct. And then he has to go back into 470 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,880 The Cave to, to contemplate and then come back and then 471 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,760 understand the reality for what it really is. 472 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:21,520 And I found that The Cave motif is kind of building off of the, 473 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,000 the Greek, you know, explanation of it. 474 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:26,320 I don't know if you if that resonates. 475 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:30,800 I, I believe, I'm not sure, but I believe that they looked up to 476 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:35,280 the Greek philosophy and myth and they absorbed it like we 477 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,600 know what's happening in the world today, but then they take 478 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,880 it in and they make something new of it. 479 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,160 They make it their. Own. 480 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:43,960 They make it their own. Their own. 481 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:49,280 And what happens to Shivan Bhai is that he goes in to The Cave a 482 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:54,480 rebel and a zealot and he says about the Romans, whatever they 483 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,560 know they did for their own good and he's against them. 484 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,560 After 12 years and another year that God puts in there to think, 485 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:07,400 he comes out and he says, can I let the can, Can I do something? 486 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:12,719 And that transformation and becoming an adult and taking 487 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:17,320 responsibility is something very interesting of people changing 488 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,239 The Cave. They like a butterfly. 489 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,360 They become something. The next stage of the it's it's 490 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:28,000 interesting when we as that would I got the readers when we 491 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,480 all know the stories, we can start talking not about not only 492 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:36,760 about a specific story, but about the the top post that the 493 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,120 symbol that is like, for example, The Cave. 494 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:44,400 So I'm still waiting for to have enough colleagues to talk about 495 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,679 that. You know, nobody reads your PhD. 496 00:34:46,679 --> 00:34:53,280 So maybe one day. So in your introductory chapter, 497 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,560 The Imaginative Map, you discussed literary landscape 498 00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,440 used by our sages in telling over agatic stories. 499 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,520 You mentioned that modern academics have always been, 500 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,760 quote UN quote, embarrassed by the unconventional depictions of 501 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:08,680 time, space, and reality in these stories. 502 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,120 What is your understanding of the imagery, imaginary map of 503 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:17,520 the sages and the consequential consequential error of modern 504 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:22,520 academics in understanding it? You're talking about academics 505 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:28,640 30 years ago, 20 years ago, and I think today there's so many 506 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:33,360 colleagues that have joined us. But I felt at the time and back 507 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,640 many years before me, in the beginning of the reason shaft in 508 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:41,480 the student terms, they were embarrassed with Agada and 509 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:46,200 something childish. Maybe it's folklore, it's not 510 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:53,160 serious and only Alaka is legal work that they used to say it 511 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,240 doesn't have embezzle basal, it doesn't have meat on it. 512 00:35:56,240 --> 00:35:59,480 It's just agada, fluffy women's stuff. 513 00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:04,160 And today I think people realise that it's all literature. 514 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:12,280 Alaka is also literature and Agada is so well made, so deep 515 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:17,720 and profound and precise and today it deserves and it's 516 00:36:17,720 --> 00:36:22,960 getting it's academic attention and many more scholars from 517 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:26,720 different fields came to to know it and to study it. 518 00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:32,760 So it's not only Talmud is not only legal, it is there is there 519 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:39,560 are legal many legal discussions, but I wouldn't say 520 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:43,760 that it's more than 1/2. That's a big question. 521 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:49,920 The Eniaco, you know, different people will count differently, 522 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:56,480 but there's no question, I think that the maybe the smaller half 523 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:05,400 of Agadda this and not just let's let's jump beyond it and 524 00:37:05,720 --> 00:37:10,640 go to the next electric chapter. Yeah, it's it's treated more 525 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,960 like a science today, like there is so much to unpack. 526 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,680 And before it was kind of overlooked, not really so 527 00:37:18,720 --> 00:37:21,840 focused on and and totally I think in many circles. 528 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,800 In the in the picture book. Yeah, I mean. 529 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,040 Pictures. What I love about the academic 530 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:34,720 world today with regards to these agadotta, is that I find 531 00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:39,120 that they're the focus on it. It's it's actually unique 532 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,280 because you don't always experience that depending on the 533 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:43,560 yeshiva you go to. Usually you kind of just like 534 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,240 brush off or you you kind of run through the Agadoth. 535 00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:49,560 You're not really analyzing them so much all the time depending 536 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,280 on the yeshiva, obviously. So it's really like a breath of 537 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,120 fresh air. Like we were discussing off 538 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,360 camera professor Jeffrey Rubenstein, who like, I feel 539 00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:58,960 that should be like yeshiva curriculum. 540 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,040 You know, people should must learn that before to really 541 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:06,200 appreciate Agadah and his contribute his contribution is 542 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:11,040 so it's so refreshing. And our own our our Rabbi is the 543 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,680 one who who got us into him. Rabbi Joshua Maroof. 544 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:15,360 We have to give him credit for that. 545 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,000 And it just opened up a whole world for us. 546 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:19,080 You know we. Really did. 547 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,000 Because we, we studied Gemara since we were like in what, 5th 548 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,840 grade, 6th grade. And we never, never even 549 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:26,600 considered this. But we never no, no. 550 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,800 No, it we learned it in a very It was. 551 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:29,720 It was not. It was. 552 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:31,560 Yes. But I envy that too. 553 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,520 But you know, we all all the world of the studying Maha is 554 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:41,800 studying in a Lithuanian way, which is a kind of a way that 555 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:49,560 they decided back there that we will study law and which is a 556 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,440 fine way to study. But all the part of the time 557 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:55,560 that doesn't go doesn't pack into that. 558 00:38:55,560 --> 00:39:00,560 They just kind of let go. And Jeffrey Rubinstein is is 559 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:04,440 doing an amazing job in doing it academically. 560 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,840 So nobody can say a word. It's not. 561 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:13,520 It's not only he is not only literary, he's very 562 00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:16,400 scientifically showing and proving it. 563 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,680 And so, yeah. It's undeniable when you, when 564 00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:24,000 you start to see if you in his book Talmudic stories, he, he'll 565 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,680 start charting for you and showing you how these stories 566 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:31,280 have chiasms and, you know, parallel, parallelisms to other. 567 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,440 And it's once you like, you know, it's, it's undeniable when 568 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,120 you see it. And I don't think that that 569 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,560 needs to take away from the religious message for people who 570 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,920 are religious that might get intimidated by such things. 571 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:43,680 I say the opposite. I think that it actually 572 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:47,240 enriches the religious aspect if you so choose that way. 573 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:52,800 It's it's it, it, it shows you that it shows you that these 574 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:57,720 were very, very structured, pointed, specific. 575 00:39:57,960 --> 00:39:59,560 There's something to unpack here. 576 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:04,360 And the sages, you know, they were at least for in their 577 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,400 minds, they're giving a religious message. 578 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:10,120 There's no reason why a religious person can't should 579 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:14,760 get intimidated or think that. The fact that Agadot or or have 580 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,120 a literary structure, it somehow devalues it. 581 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,200 I think it increases the value. It's just, it's just a matter of 582 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,840 learning how to reframe and like, you know, shape your lens 583 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,760 in a different way. And then you actually it becomes 584 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,080 even more enriching than you'd ever imagined. 585 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,960 So Javal, you know. That you mentioned that, I mean, 586 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,240 I felt it, but we never actually said it. 587 00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:41,240 I think that I wouldn't say religious because religiosity is 588 00:40:41,240 --> 00:40:44,800 something that is not divided between Alaric and non Alaric 589 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,520 people, but traditional religious, you know what I mean? 590 00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:53,960 People maybe we're intimidated by the freedom of literature. 591 00:40:54,280 --> 00:41:00,280 It's not summed into, but for me that is religious text because 592 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:04,440 they move your deepest heart. Absolutely. 593 00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:10,000 Appreciate this world and and what kind, what is expected from 594 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:14,200 you as a human being and what it is to be a Jew and what it is to 595 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,840 be human and what does God want from us and. 596 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,320 Absolutely. The the the word religious that 597 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:21,960 I used was the wrong wording. It wasn't. 598 00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,400 I didn't mean to. That's the wrong wording that I 599 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,560 chose. My point was instead these were 600 00:41:27,720 --> 00:41:32,520 these are stories that are speaking to the to the depth of 601 00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:36,640 the of the human condition and depth of of the Jewish 602 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:41,200 consciousness. And I, I always respect fear 603 00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:46,520 when people are intimidated. I try to understand what is what 604 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,840 is frightening here. And usually they have a point. 605 00:41:50,720 --> 00:41:55,120 But in this case, I think it's funny to say that it's time to 606 00:41:55,120 --> 00:42:02,640 study the whole Your Mama and not only the few traditional 607 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,440 chapters that she would do. Yeah. 608 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,720 And, and actually you mentioned that it there's, it's very 609 00:42:08,720 --> 00:42:13,040 creative, which is different than a lot of the other fields 610 00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,840 of study within Judaism where everything is kind of like black 611 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:18,880 and white and not black and white in a sense where there's 612 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,720 no depth, but but like it's, there's a. 613 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:23,360 Clarity. Is clarity and it's 614 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,320 systematized, right? Everything is systematized. 615 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:30,400 So you, you progress in your understanding as you learn it 616 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,680 more and more, right? But for example, Midrash, when 617 00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:38,280 you learned Midrash as a kid, you never really develop that, 618 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,600 that skill of honing and understanding and unpacking A 619 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,520 Midrash. You're really learning it when 620 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:46,160 you're 6 years old, the same way you're learning it when you're 621 00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,320 26 years old. But for some reason, you know, 622 00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:53,240 for some reason Agadam Midrash stays in that place and, and 623 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,520 every other feel like Gemara and everything else you study, 624 00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,800 you're constantly developing and evolving and, and, and deepening 625 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,480 your understanding. And it's a shame because you 626 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:05,400 know, I, but it, like you said, it's, it's, we understand that 627 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,440 there's, you know, people have these fears for a good reason. 628 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:10,000 You know when there's something too creative. 629 00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,920 If you don't understand how to work with it, you might go too 630 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,360 far. Yeah, I think that's what you 631 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,320 meant when you said I don't, I don't, I don't look, I don't 632 00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:21,920 that you don't look at it. You don't teach it 633 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,000 educationally, meaning you don't want it to be something that, 634 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,240 you know, this is Kaka, the Kaka. 635 00:43:27,240 --> 00:43:29,920 And you know, that's it. It's supposed to open something 636 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:31,160 up. That's that's the that's the 637 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,440 idea of an artistic expression, right? 638 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,760 It's supposed to, it's supposed to create something versus just, 639 00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:40,520 you know, sitting in a classroom and ABCDEFG and goodnight. 640 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:44,560 I agree. And also as you say, you said a 641 00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:49,480 lot of the vision, vision shaft, the study of Jewish studies of 642 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:54,560 the 19th century was objecting. You learn something and then you 643 00:43:55,280 --> 00:44:00,960 divide it to three levels and four answers in here you go 644 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:06,760 through something happens to you it it's not something that 645 00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,880 you're objective about. The story touches you and I feel 646 00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,680 changes me, wakes me up. Like in the Knesset, I wanted to 647 00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:19,000 say something to the ultra Orthodox and to the secular. 648 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:26,320 And the story was so relevant that sometimes when the right 649 00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:31,320 story comes in the right time, for example, now when we went 650 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:37,520 through this horrible war in the 7th of October and we lost our 651 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:39,560 concept. Concept. 652 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:43,960 Yeah, they say in Israel we something about what what's 653 00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:48,440 happening here was kind of lost. And I felt that it's very 654 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,160 similar to the giving of the Torah. 655 00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:56,560 And when Moses comes down and breaks it, and then there's a 656 00:44:56,560 --> 00:45:03,160 time without Torah and there is a time of just being quiet and 657 00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:06,160 waiting to realise what what's going to happen. 658 00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:11,000 And then God says to Moses, come now, you will write the Torah 659 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,880 again. You're not going to get a Torah 660 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:16,680 made by heaven. You're going to write it 661 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,640 yourself. And I felt about Israel that we 662 00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:27,120 are now in a, in a time between Torah and we have to heal and 663 00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:31,080 write the Torah ourselves, even if it's not perfect and it's 664 00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:37,240 it's with this wound inside it. And many times the the text is 665 00:45:37,240 --> 00:45:41,800 holding some deep meaning that until you don't get to the point 666 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,360 that you need it, or for example, the Agadakis that God 667 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,480 is crying. I learned it so many years ago, 668 00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:53,840 but I, I was impressed by it. But I know when, what did they 669 00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:59,400 feel when they wrote it? God is crying and and the Angel 670 00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:01,280 is saying to him, please don't cry here. 671 00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:05,120 I will cry and you don't cry. And God says, no, if you don't 672 00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:09,480 let me cry here, I'll go to my room that is called my misterim 673 00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:14,680 and I'll cry there. And again last year I felt that 674 00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:20,200 God is crying and that there are moments to just say, you know, 675 00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:24,640 that's where we are now. And if I wouldn't have that 676 00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:30,240 text, I would feel lost. There's something that the sages 677 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:38,840 have left us, this treasure of human responses to life that 678 00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,560 thank God we don't need all of them all the time. 679 00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:46,160 But when we do, I felt like coming home to I, I go back to 680 00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:50,640 them like, you know, you go to your grandparents to, to learn 681 00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:54,880 some wisdom and get some comfort. 682 00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:56,640 Amazing, Amazingly said. Wow, what? 683 00:46:57,240 --> 00:46:59,000 I got chills from that example that you gave. 684 00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:03,960 That's really beautiful. And now that you touched on your 685 00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:08,360 Knesset speech, we'd like you to tell our audience first of all 686 00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:12,720 what that was about and what led you to that moment. 687 00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,480 And before you, before you talk about it, I just want to say if, 688 00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:22,040 if the, if anyone in the audience has not heard Ruth's 689 00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:24,960 Knesset speech runs about, I believe it was about 1520 690 00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,560 minutes or my or something. It's about 15 to 20 minutes. 691 00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:35,680 Her Knesset speech trying to trying to promote Talmud to the 692 00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:39,320 wider Israeli society. It is one of the most incredible 693 00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:43,920 speeches you will ever hear. Everyone should go on YouTube. 694 00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,480 Everyone needs to listen to it. It is incredible. 695 00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:49,400 OK, sorry now. Thank you very much. 696 00:47:50,240 --> 00:47:51,800 It's so moving that you heard it. 697 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:54,320 It was very simple. We came. 698 00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:56,360 I was only maybe a week in the Knesset. 699 00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,680 And also Sheila, one of the guys that was in charge, he said, 700 00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:02,200 tomorrow you have to introduce yourselves. 701 00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:06,760 You have 10 minutes, 15 minutes. And I thought, can I be next 702 00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:08,760 week? And he said no tomorrow. 703 00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:13,040 So I went home and I thought, how will I introduce myself? 704 00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:16,800 What, what do I know how to do? And he said to myself, I'll read 705 00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,360 the story. And I thought, what could be 706 00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:21,960 relevant for today in the Knesset? 707 00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:27,880 There's all this, you know, tension between this and that. 708 00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:31,560 And I thought of this beautiful story of Robert Khomeini's wife, 709 00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:37,120 and I brought my Talmud, and then they told me you're not 710 00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:40,720 allowed to hold anything when you're talking to the Knesset. 711 00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:44,680 So I kept it very low, and I started teaching. 712 00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:48,920 Now, usually not very many people listen. 713 00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:53,760 They do other things. So I was teaching, but then the 714 00:48:55,360 --> 00:49:01,080 speaker, the Knesset that day was from Shas Vakhman is his 715 00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:06,200 name Vakhman, and he is a traditional Jew. 716 00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:09,360 So he was interested and he heard that I'm reading the 717 00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:10,880 Taliban. He started talking to me. 718 00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:16,680 So the the more secular people in the Knesset thought that he's 719 00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:18,320 attacking me. So they woke up. 720 00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:22,200 So the ultra Orthodox in the Knesset thought that we're 721 00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,680 fighting. So they woke up while we were 722 00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,840 really enjoying studying together. 723 00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:32,640 And so I really read that story about the wife and the husband 724 00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,760 that forgets to come back home for young people. 725 00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:41,800 I'm afraid to ruin the beauty of the story, but there's a very 726 00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:51,640 deep, it's not exactly something to learn, but something that the 727 00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:56,920 story touches on that if you rely on someone and you stand on 728 00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:01,640 their soldiers shoulders, you should be very sensitive to 729 00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:03,640 their needs. And if they break, you will 730 00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:07,720 break with them. And it's, it's so true about 731 00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:12,440 America and Israel, about the Middle East and us, about 732 00:50:12,720 --> 00:50:19,040 different groups of Jews. When you rely on someone, you 733 00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:23,640 have to see if you didn't push them just a little bit more than 734 00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:27,000 they can take because if they will collapse, you will 735 00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,440 collapse. And the story is so beautiful 736 00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:34,000 because you can see both sides as the wife and both sides as 737 00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:36,880 the husband. It's not just one sided. 738 00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,920 So I didn't know it's taped and I didn't know anyone would put 739 00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:44,360 it on online. And then I learned what an 740 00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,120 amazing world it is. Well, you didn't know that it 741 00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:50,160 was going to be on. No, I was first week I didn't 742 00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,240 know everything was dead. I. 743 00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:56,280 And I mean, was the reaction in the audience because it's such 744 00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:58,960 a, you know, divided audience. Not often times. 745 00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:03,360 And like, I felt like, you know, you, you really, it was just 746 00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:07,640 such a unique reaction, you know, I thought it was amazing, 747 00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:10,200 so. Actually, I think the connection 748 00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:13,880 with Vaknin that was special because we come from 2 two 749 00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:17,240 different worlds and they would expect us to be rivals. 750 00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:21,000 But he's a safari Jew. I don't want to fight with him. 751 00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:25,360 I like him and he didn't have nothing to fight with me. 752 00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:28,040 He he was intrigued. Let's study some time. 753 00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:34,200 And you have to sit there as a, as a speaker for four hours or 8 754 00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:36,880 hours. I I joined him afterwards to be 755 00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:38,600 here. So so you. 756 00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:41,440 Give you gave that speech, the room was stunned. 757 00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:45,960 You could see they were stunned it it was a stunning speech and 758 00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:49,200 they were stunned. What happened after? 759 00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:51,600 Did what what? What was the? 760 00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:57,880 Did it have an effect or or or or did it not have an effect or 761 00:51:57,880 --> 00:51:59,960 what What? What was the the events that 762 00:51:59,960 --> 00:52:03,320 followed? Things don't happen very. 763 00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:06,600 Quickly, of course, that was the nature of the world. 764 00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:08,080 That was the nature of the world. 765 00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:15,320 But I did feel that that I broke the line in some ways and I 766 00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:19,400 could form coalitions with not only with the people that are 767 00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:23,320 supposed to be on my side, because politics is very much 768 00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:24,960 either you're here or you're there. 769 00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:30,320 And some surprising people came to say Charcoar. 770 00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:37,880 And it comes granted from the in the outside of politics, but 771 00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,400 inside, it's very hard to break the lines. 772 00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:47,200 And so unknowingly, the Talmud was really a source of help here 773 00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:49,840 and we managed to do some things. 774 00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:55,400 And I also want to say that I believe in politics and I think 775 00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:59,880 good people should go and give service for a few years if they 776 00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:03,440 can, because if you're not at the table, you're on the table. 777 00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:07,080 And we always leave it to other people and then we complain. 778 00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:12,560 So I was surprised how well the Talmud was accepted there. 779 00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:16,120 But I mean, that's what we do every day. 780 00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:21,040 But suddenly in that scene, everything was surprising and 781 00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:25,320 and different. And for me, it was amazing to 782 00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:27,200 meet people like you that heard it. 783 00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:30,800 And suddenly I had connections with Jews in the world that I 784 00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:34,200 don't know. And that also made me feel how 785 00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:38,880 the language of the Talmud is such a potential connector. 786 00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:41,360 Uniting factor. It could be a uniting factor. 787 00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:45,200 So yeah, a lot, I'm assuming a lot of women sort of knocking on 788 00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:47,280 your door to teach us at that point, huh? 789 00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:51,160 Not women dafka. Really. 790 00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:52,000 OK. Not women dafka. 791 00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:56,960 No, it's it's not a good thing. It's. 792 00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:00,760 A It's a great. You're you. 793 00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:05,080 You, you have an incredible life where you're trying to bring 794 00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:09,520 back our ancient roots and trying to connect it with our 795 00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:15,400 modern times. You, you, you have you, You, you 796 00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:21,760 want the our our traditions to be a force of unification, not a 797 00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:26,040 division. You, you, we share in your 798 00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:31,600 vision that one day our ancient texts will not be relegated to a 799 00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:35,400 specific group or specific, you know, ideology, but that the 800 00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:38,240 ancient texts of Israel belonged to the people of Israel 801 00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:41,440 regardless. It's going to be the night of 802 00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:43,080 Shavuot. We all were there. 803 00:54:43,240 --> 00:54:46,520 I remember standing there when we received it to our it was all 804 00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:49,960 of us women and men and there was number different. 805 00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:54,520 There was number secular or not secular or religious there, and 806 00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:59,000 we should all live with it. And I feel I just met 60 young 807 00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:04,480 people from a machina program for the Army, and they're great 808 00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:08,880 young people today. And they asked me about, you 809 00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:11,080 know, the project that I'm trying to work on. 810 00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:15,920 And I told them that our life is shorter than the moves of 811 00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:20,440 culture and history. And I tried to, together with my 812 00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:24,600 friends and my generation to push the rock a little bit 813 00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:27,960 forward. And it's not moving so fast, but 814 00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:33,640 maybe something is changing. And I do feel that in Israel it 815 00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:36,640 is. And unfortunately, in this last 816 00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:41,440 very hard two years, many more people are looking for meaning, 817 00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:46,840 for identity, for that. Yeah. 818 00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:51,080 I feel here at Alma that we have more and more people that come 819 00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:55,720 to study young people and and older people and everyone. 820 00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:58,040 Change. Change is always slow. 821 00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:03,120 That's the nature of the world. Maimonides actually says that 822 00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:08,760 the reason why Hashem God made made the Jewish people wander 823 00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:11,640 for 40 years in the desert was because being that they were 824 00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:15,280 just, they were slaves for all those years. 825 00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:20,360 It was, it was not, it was, it was not practical to take a 826 00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:24,520 slave minded people and just, you know, immediately throw them 827 00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:27,640 into Israel as a, you know, a, a, a, a country and a nation and 828 00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:31,240 a political. They needed to have a time to, 829 00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:36,720 to readjust Exactly. Change comes slow, but change 830 00:56:36,720 --> 00:56:39,880 does happen. And the explosion, as I was 831 00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:44,800 saying before, the explosion of, of incredible, incredible works 832 00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:51,360 of, of, of, of Talmud and Agadah and Midrash and all these, it is 833 00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:54,000 what's going on in Israel. There's like a renaissance of 834 00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:57,200 sort. And it's just a matter of time. 835 00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:01,600 It's a matter of time that, that it will, it will, it will, it 836 00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:05,760 will, it will spread into all, all the different, all the 837 00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:09,120 different places. It's and, and we appreciate so 838 00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:14,920 much your contribution to that vision and, and we so much, we 839 00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:18,920 appreciate the time that you gave us Kolakavod, keep doing 840 00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:22,840 what you're doing and keep inspiring Israelis towards 841 00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:25,280 towards connecting with our ancient texts. 842 00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:30,240 Thank you so much. It is so moving that that I feel 843 00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:33,840 that we are connected like in a minute because we we share the 844 00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:38,640 the love of this and that even if things move slowly, knowing 845 00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:42,800 that this is our job and that we do it and that we have partners, 846 00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:47,680 even ones that we didn't know until today is a very warm 847 00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:48,760 feeling. Thank you. 848 00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:51,400 Thank you for having me and thank you for being there. 849 00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:52,920 Absolutely. Thank you. 850 00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:54,000 It's our pleasure. Thank you. 851 00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:56,360 So joining your audience. Thank you. 852 00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:03,240 Shavuotov and be safe and. Happy Shavuot, and maybe we may 853 00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:10,280 we be Zakahim who is worthy of the Torah that we keep 854 00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:11,000 receiving.