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Welcome to Judaism Demystified, 
a podcast for the perplexed. 

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We are joined by Rep Yitzhak 
Berdugo. 

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Rep Berdugo was born and raised 
in South Florida. 

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He studied at Yeshivat Beth 
Moshe Khayim Talmudic University

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in Miami Beach and received his 
samikha under the auspices of 

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its Roshi Shiva of A Yochenan, 
Moshe Zweig, while further 

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studying in New York. 
Ever Berdugo received his Yoray 

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Yoray from Rabbi Eliahu Ben 
Khayim Roshi Shiva and Abit Dean

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of Badas Mukhor Haim, Queens, NY
followed by Kabbalah and Chihita

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and in long checking following 
the in the path of the 

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illustrious Rabanim of the 
Berdugo family. 

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Rabbi Berdugo has written much 
on Halakha and has authored his 

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own response of covering a 
variety of topics with great 

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admiration for the Hakamim of 
Sfarad. 

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Rabbi Berdugo has a passion in 
the translation and promulgation

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of their works. 
Currently residing in Miami 

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Beach, FL. 
Robert Verdugo served as the 

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Roche Kolel of the Bal Harbour 
Kolel and is pursuing his 

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Dianute qualification through 
the Eretzkremda Institute of 

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Jerusalem and Montefiore 
Endowment. 

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Without further ado, Rob 
Verdugo. 

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Thank you for joining the 
Judaism Demystified podcast. 

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Thank you Robert Verdugo for 
coming on. 

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We've been waiting for this for 
a long time and we want to hear 

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a little bit more about 
yourself, your background, your 

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education and your most recent 
project, your book, 

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Understanding Hazel. 
So take it away. 

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Thank you so much. 
Thank you for the honor and 

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privilege to be here with you 
guys. 

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Keep up the good work what you 
guys are doing. 

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Definitely much needed. 
So I'm taking it away from the 

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beginning, just about the book 
or about my. 

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Yeah, learn about your 
background before I guess. 

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No. 
Background OK, sure, no problem.

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So I'm born and raised here in 
South Florida, Miami Beach. 

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Then we moved to when I was 
younger, around 5-6 years old. 

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We moved to a place called 
Weston near Sawgrass Mall. 

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Big mall there. 
And then from there we went to 

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Parkland, actually. 
Unfortunately people know it 

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from the shooting there. 
Parkland, tons of the Jews 

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there. 
I don't know, I don't know most,

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but even in the school where 
they unfortunately that shooting

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was, it was filled with Jews, 
maybe 40% Jewish. 

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My cousins were actually there 
during the shooting, but we 

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were. 
I went to a private school, 

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private non Jewish school, 
secular school. 

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But again also most of the kids 
were Jewish. 

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A lot of even people Kohanim, 
last name Kohan and everything, 

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but they were gohim as well. 
But I had a traditional 

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upbringing from my father's 
side. 

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He came straight from Tangier, 
Morocco, when he was around 2423

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or 24 years old. 
And he also came from the the 

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Berdugo families, like a 
rabbinical family. 

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So he had a lot of very strong 
tradition traditions, but he 

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came here wanting to be a movie 
star. 

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Very interesting path, different
path than his his ancestors had.

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But did it work out? 
For him or. 

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No, he actually was. 
My father was on Miami Vice. 

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The show, a couple episodes. 
He's like the guy in the 

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background saying, Oh my God, 
you had a couple words there and

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a few episodes. 
Pretty funny. 

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So. 
But he married. 

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My mother was Ashkenazi Jew from
you know she's comes from a 

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chant of all different from 
Hungary, Poland, Russia, 

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everything you could think of. 
But they're already like 4 

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generations secular here in in 
America. 

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So it was very interesting. 
Two sides of of the the the 

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spectrum of the Sephardic 
traditional and very secular 

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Ashkenazi. 
But my dad, you know, he really 

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tried to raise this more 
traditional. 

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Our bar mitzvah was an Orthodox 
even though like we would go 

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maybe every now and then to like
a conservative reform show. 

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But my dad was very like no, we 
have to go Orthodox. 

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And the only Orthodox we had it 
was Habad. 

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And in in Khabbad we, you know 
we brought Tifili and my father 

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used to go and make sure you 
know every morning after my bar 

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mitzvah learned that, put on 
tifili and he made our house 

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crochet as well even though 
sometimes we would sneak in, you

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know things that we shouldn't 
have been sneaking in But 

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definitely a traditional 
upbringing And it was also very 

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just funny seeing the different 
sides of my mom's family. 

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Unfortunately even some of them 
married to let's say non Jews 

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and and and my father's family 
which a lot of them maintain the

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traditions and even beneath 
Torah are very religious. 

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So very 2 two different worlds 
clashing in in my house but 

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towards I would say like 
15/16/17. 

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Getting more into it I was I was
very into music. 

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I actually went to every summer.
I would go to Berkeley College 

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of Music in Boston. 
I got a full scholarship to go 

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there, to study there. 
But instead of that I during 

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that time I was getting more and
more into Torah. 

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There's not any crazy particular
story. 

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I don't went to RSMF for a 
little bit and there you hear 

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stories like, yeah, after I 
killed my teacher and went to 

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prison for five years, I I saw. 
Math is like a haven for for 

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interesting stories. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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I was like the only one that 
didn't have that. 

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I actually, I I met somebody in 
North MF that was supposed to 

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sign a contract as an offensive 
lineman for the Green Bay 

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Packers. 
And. 

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Came to study in North MF for 
like one month just because like

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he wanted to like kind of look a
little bit nose Jewish roots 

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before he goes off to the NFL 
world and he like quit the whole

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thing and you know like changes 
a lot. 

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Everyone has these stories all 
the time, so. 

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Yeah, yeah, I got crazy stories.
So from there yeah. 

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So very heavily involved in 
music. 

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I had bands, I was in bands we 
toured and we're gonna get. 

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Actually I even got they wanted 
me to join some some rock band, 

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whatever, but I didn't end up 
joining it. 

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But so by the same time I was 
getting definitely into more 

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into religion actually it 
happened to because my brother 

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was getting his bar mitzvah and 
and we had a habad, a rabbi that

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would drive like an hour away to
come and tutor my brother. 

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And then during that time as 
well I I kind of it's it's 

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pretty funny when you talked 
about that then you were at your

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Choquette. 
But at that time you know I'm on

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the I guess my generation was 
like the first real generation 

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to like use the Internet like 
crazy and just explore it. 

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Like even in school my my high 
school or my middle school was 

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like the first school to start 
using like laptops in class. 

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So like we were like the Dordea 
the generation of knowledge and 

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just like something like crazy. 
And randomly I found out about I

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I used the PETA. 
PETA, PETA. 

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PETA, PETA, right. 
PETA, the animal you know 

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organization for to to to be 
vegan etcetera. 

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And I saw some videos about 
Chehita and not sorry not 

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Chehita about how they kill 
animals and then the I chose 

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chose to be vegetarian. 
I'm like, you know, I'm not 

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gonna eat meat. 
But it didn't last so long 

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because we like to. 
We like to meet a lot. 

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Then I show my brother as well. 
I forced him to watch it as 

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well, and we didn't. 
We're like, OK, no more meat. 

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We thought, you know, meat grows
on trees or something. 

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We didn't know that it actually 
came from animals. 

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And then from then I couldn't 
keep it. 

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And my friend, he's like, oh, 
kosher. 

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The chiquita is much more, you 
know, humane, etcetera. 

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And don't worry, you know, you 
can eat meat now. 

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And I'm like, oh great, my dad 
always, you know, tries to 

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enforce us to be kosher, you 
know, Anyways, we have it, OK, 

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I'm going to keep kosher. 
And from there, with the rabbi 

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coming and teaching my brother 
for his bar mitzvah lesson 

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instead of learning for his bar 
mitzvah, we started just talking

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about this and that and random 
things. 

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And then my mom actually didn't 
like it so much. 

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She thought she was he was 
radicalizing us a little bit. 

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So she like told us, Rabbi, you 
can't come back anymore. 

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But because of this, the the, 
the computer, the Internet, I 

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had access to everything. 
There was websites, 

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askmoses.com, I don't know if 
they even had that anymore. 

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They had all these different 
websites, Wikipedia with all the

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history of everything. 
So we had knowledge. 

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We had you know the the access 
to to keep on learning and it 

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just kept on growing and growing
until you know I started wearing

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a a coupi in school probably the
only guy wearing a coupi in 

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school. 
And then as I continue to learn 

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instead of going to even when I 
went to Boston in this summer as

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I was performing with a keep on 
with my CC Don. 

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I remember I invited the Khabar 
Rabi to come to my concert and 

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instead of I didn't know about 
the Lahav Kalisha and I told him

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to come but the singer from my 
band was a was a woman singing 

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and and he's like well I can't 
come I can't listen to what is 

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this what are you inviting me I 
didn't know that but I already 

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was very inspired I don't know 
why I'm going through the whole 

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story of my history but it it 
actually leads to the book of 

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understanding Hazel so we'll get
there somehow. 

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I hope you guys don't mind if if
if it's Oh no please do so so 

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from there I went to a TCLI. 
It was my first time ever going 

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to Israel was to to was going to
study in yeshiva. 

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I never went there before. 
It's very different reality for 

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me going to Israel especially in
in my in the program. 

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I went to dare horse. 
I heard it was for Baltisha but 

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it seemed like my year and maybe
maybe years before it as well 

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they had a lot of just people 
coming from more modern orthodox

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schools. 
So it wasn't I wasn't year. 

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It was like that I. 
Also went to Dare Horse, as we 

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mentioned beforehand. 
There was a mix. 

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There were some people I felt, 
that came there and they were 

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already kind of established. 
Then you had people that came 

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there, like, you know, 
absolutely nothing. 

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It was like, it was like you 
said, like it's a troll into the

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different types of people. 
Right, So that was I. 

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Really loved it. 
Yeah. 

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You loved it. 
Yeah. 

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So when I was there, I it was 
like a reality shock to me 

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because I was the only I went 
there already, like black and 

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white. 
I had pale a little behind my 

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ear as well, ready to stag. 
But then like a lot of guys, 

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like I met them on the plane, I 
went on the group flight and it 

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was a shock reality to me. 
Like these are people that, 

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like, they didn't really want to
be so religious. 

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A lot of the people, of course 
there were a few that did, but a

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lot of people weren't so into 
it. 

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I remember the the the first 
time we go there, we had the 

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rabbi sis is down, you're not 
allowed to go to Ben Yuda. 

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OK, so And then we all go to the
dorms and I see everybody like 

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putting hair gel and getting 
dressed. 

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I'm like, where you guys going, 
Ben Yuda? 

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I'm like, what I just said we 
can't go to Ben Yuda. 

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So whatever. 
It was a little shocking for me.

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I had my ups and downs there, 
but Marukashem, towards the 

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middle of the year, I, you know,
a lot of people start growing 

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getting more into it. 
So I getting more into it as 

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well. 
The first time learning Gemara. 

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I never learned Gemara before, 
but it was definitely in the end

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a very positive experience. 
I stayed. 

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I went there again for Shana Bet
but for only half the year. 

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And then my father also 
pressuring that like you have to

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come back. 
You have to come back. 

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You have to start university. 
But I'm like you know I want to 

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continue learning and I knew of 
a place that there's a yeshiva 

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in Miami called the Talmudic 
university rabbi's wife yeshiva.

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So I'm like dad I think I just 
want to study there instead of 

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going to university. 
I was already accepted to why 

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you also like I want to 
especially with the hash kafi in

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in or somewhere they they they 
they prefer not to go to Yu. 

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They prefer you know go to some 
other you stay there or more 

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other yeshiva Shiva's. 
So Robert Wise is a classic. 

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I don't know, it's like a Neri 
Sorrell Breakoff type of style. 

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So I studied there. 
I was there for 3-4 years, just 

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pure learning growing more and 
more. 

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00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:49,280
But as I, when I was there in 
yeshiva there quick funny story 

224
00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:52,040
about this Shahita just to go 
back and sorry my mind works in 

225
00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:56,200
crazy ways but I found out later
that that video from PETA who 

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was actually kosher Shahita that
I saw. 

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00:11:58,200 --> 00:11:59,920
Oh really. 
Yeah. 

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00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:04,560
So as it I'm also a Shahed 
certified for for Dakot and 

229
00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:08,800
Agasot as well and I did a few 
of them as well and Shahida is I

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00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,120
don't I wouldn't say I know a 
lot of cure rabbis say it's so 

231
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humane. 
This is not but I don't think 

232
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they were Shahadi members. 
Shahida is probably it's 

233
00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,360
probably not the most humane. 
You know for example you want a 

234
00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,720
quail they just cut off the head
that's how going to do it. 

235
00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,320
And us we have to you know find 
the two the kind of edition 

236
00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,800
there and then and cut it and 
you see the animal dying or a 

237
00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:27,520
duck you know it takes a couple 
minutes for it to die. 

238
00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,640
Is it the most humane? 
I don't think so but it's that's

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00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,600
the covenant we have with Hashem
we so we do it like that but. 

240
00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,400
Yeah, I wanna give you a quick 
shout out to our mutual friend 

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00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:39,720
about Adam Aziz. 
So he's he's a listener of the 

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00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,680
show, so just. 
Want to say really beautiful. 

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00:12:42,680 --> 00:12:43,800
Beautiful. 
Yeah. 

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00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:45,040
Yeah. 
He's a good friend of mine as 

245
00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:46,400
well. 
I have all this fadim as well. 

246
00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,240
And he does a Oh, no, sorry. 
Adam Aziz. 

247
00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:50,760
You're saying I saw Aziz. 
You're saying Adam Aziz? 

248
00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:54,200
He's also yeah. 
Also also also friend yeah. 

249
00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:55,400
Beautiful. 
Yeah. 

250
00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:56,920
Adam Aziz, as well as a good 
friend of mine. 

251
00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:58,600
He was. 
He came the year after I was 

252
00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:00,240
there. 
But that was Shana Betty Shana 

253
00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:05,440
Alice and just such fan and and 
the amazing person growing like 

254
00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:10,400
crazy and always, I'm sure. 
So yeah. 

255
00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,520
So that was just The funny thing
about the Shahita thing that 

256
00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:16,080
there was like what kind of got 
me into the kosher etcetera was 

257
00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,800
actually completely the opposite
in reality. 

258
00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,400
But OK, it turned out to become.
I turned out to be a show hit as

259
00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:26,360
well. 
For fun, we had a Codell here in

260
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:28,800
Bal Harbour and we learned for a
Woman's month. 

261
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,400
We were teaching them Shakita, 
so they all became certified 

262
00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:35,320
Shohatim there. 
So where was I last? 

263
00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,880
I don't. 
Actually understand I don't know

264
00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:41,340
if you're getting to this, but 
how you found your quote UN 

265
00:13:41,340 --> 00:13:42,760
quote dera? 
He's gonna get there, I think, 

266
00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:43,160
right. 
Yeah. 

267
00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:49,800
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
So, so in in the Ishiva you know

268
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,200
the in in in the most of the 
Shivish worlds like the Rambam 

269
00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:57,520
is like the you know, like the 
the final thing, the Shir Khali 

270
00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:59,960
you know every week let's say 
you have you're learning Sugiya 

271
00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:04,160
and then the Roshiba gives the 
Shir Khali the all-encompassing 

272
00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,840
shear. 
On on all the Sugiyati they give

273
00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,720
out a whole board of all the 
Mare Mekomot and then you get 

274
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,000
the that you hear the sheer for 
an hour or the sheer Khali just 

275
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,440
you know put the to mix Shalom 
with all the different 

276
00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,120
contradictions and and bring it 
home. 

277
00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:22,120
Fine tuning, yeah. 
The. 

278
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:24,840
Fine tuning of the Serbia. 
Fine tuning of the Serbia, 

279
00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,080
exactly. 
So most of the times it's on the

280
00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,880
Rambam. 
And especially the Rambam, you 

281
00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:32,880
know, he's very he doesn't bring
the Mekorot. 

282
00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:36,800
So Rabbis like to you know push 
in something into the Rambam. 

283
00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,360
So I was just always shocked and
like is this really what the 

284
00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:42,520
Rambam meant? 
This is what the Rambam meant in

285
00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:46,640
the Subiyao and this and and I 
said I'm like, I I want to read 

286
00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,360
the Rambam more and for some 
reason I always had this 

287
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,680
aspiration of the Rambam, this 
respect from and disrespect to 

288
00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:54,360
the Rambam. 
He was a doctor. 

289
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,000
He was a philosopher. 
And so my uncle as well, who's 

290
00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,680
a, he was a famous doctor in in 
in Spain, my father's brother, 

291
00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,680
he was always talking to me 
about the Rambam and just and 

292
00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,440
all just so I had this like 
affinity for the Rambam. 

293
00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,680
But when I read the Rambam as 
well and then also just reading 

294
00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:14,840
about probably online as well, 
the Misha Torah, what he did, 

295
00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,200
what he accomplished more than 
you know, pretty much any other 

296
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,920
who shown seemingly, you know, 
just the work of the the, the 

297
00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,320
the Misha Torah. 
And then of course you see in 

298
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:25,080
the Yeshivish world as well 
they're using the Rambam like, 

299
00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,120
you know this is the safer the 
best safer in the world, 

300
00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,200
etcetera. 
This is #1 safer. 

301
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:33,880
So I just said I'm like, you 
know what I'm going to Start 

302
00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,040
learning the Rambam. 
So like in yeshiva I just made a

303
00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:37,960
seder learning the ramen from 
the beginning to the end. 

304
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:40,960
And I started doing Hazara one 
time I was doing like 5 proc in 

305
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,080
a day Bah Bah, Bah, as much as I
could do. 

306
00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,040
I still give actually right 
before this I just finished we 

307
00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,760
do a share every night, a perk 
of the Rambam every night. 

308
00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,520
So they're starting learning the
ramen. 

309
00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:54,800
I'm bringing reading his 
Hagdamma as well that he's like 

310
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,720
saying like you only need this 
effort to understand the the 

311
00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:01,360
laha to know the torch about PE 
Of course he's not saying people

312
00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:03,120
misunderstand and they think 
like you're saying you could 

313
00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:04,040
throw away all the others 
fighting. 

314
00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:08,440
No, you're just saying if you 
want to know the what you need 

315
00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:12,120
to know as a halachic Jew, all 
you need is my sefer and that's 

316
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:13,680
it. 
So then I would be like, I don't

317
00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:15,080
understand. 
And he says he writes it like 

318
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:17,160
even, you know, children, women,
everybody can understand my 

319
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,680
sefer. 
So that I'm like, then I go to 

320
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,640
Sheer and I hear, you know, 
rabbis giving different 

321
00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:23,840
shooting. 
And we have guest speakers 

322
00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:28,960
coming into the words of the 
Rambam. 

323
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,520
And I'll be like, but I don't 
think this is what the Roman 

324
00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:33,960
meant. 
This is definitely not his 

325
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,440
covenant. 
So I started arguing, you know, 

326
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:38,440
and then I got, you know, 
looking online as well. 

327
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,240
I think I was like the only guy 
in my Shiva that had a 

328
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,760
smartphone in the first time, 
like, smartphones came out. 

329
00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,200
And I had a smartphone there. 
And I was doing it like in the 

330
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,440
dorms, you know, checking out a 
lot of stuff and and and like 

331
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,040
reading about the different, you
know, I started learning about 

332
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,720
the Yemenite Misura. 
RAF Kappa has a rough coffee. 

333
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,000
And I got to get into this. 
I even went when I went to 

334
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,320
Israel again, I bought his whole
set. 

335
00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,240
He has like 24 or something, 25 
volumes probably I'm the only 

336
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,200
one here in Florida that has the
entire set or even, I don't 

337
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,280
know, maybe there's one other 
rabbi you could think of but the

338
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,359
entire set of the Ravkappa. 
So I started, you know, taking 

339
00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,560
that, bringing it to the Shiva 
and then comparing it like how 

340
00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:15,680
let's say a rabbi. 
The rabbi is learning the 

341
00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:17,079
Sugiya. 
And the way I'm, you know, 

342
00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:20,680
Ravkappa is learning the Sugiya.
And many times I would be like, 

343
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,440
whoa, the Ramam Ravkappa brings 
down the Ramam. 

344
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:27,920
Explain this in a tishuva that 
he wrote exactly how he learned 

345
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:29,960
it, you know? 
Most of the time, by my 

346
00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,840
experience, most of the time 
Roufkafic will will point 

347
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:37,320
towards something in the parish 
of Michnaiot to elucidate. 

348
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,520
Which is interesting because in 
Yeshiva I've never once heard 

349
00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,160
parish of Michna of the Rambam 
being used in any sort of 

350
00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,000
fashion ever. 
You know what I mean? 

351
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:46,800
It's always based on the 
Nosikalem. 

352
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:50,680
But you know, when you learn the
Roufkafic's work on the on 

353
00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,640
Michnatura, you start to realize
that the Nosikalem happened to 

354
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,960
never have also learned the 
parish machine of the Ramam, 

355
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,520
which led to a lot of the meat, 
papillae and all that stuff. 

356
00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:00,440
So it's interesting. 
Exactly right. 

357
00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,480
Yeah, that's true. 
They sometimes bring parish 

358
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,040
machine if like you know, the 
cast of Michel brings it down or

359
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,560
somebody else brought it down, 
but like all the tissue votes 

360
00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,640
like barely ever sometimes also 
they're probably the same as 

361
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,640
Parish Machel, but like the 
tissue vote no, not so much as 

362
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,040
well. 
So seeing that and then 

363
00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,720
sometimes as well, you know, 
Rafkafa would just answer very 

364
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:20,640
easily. 
OK, that's the Ron Girsa and the

365
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,520
Rambam. 
Here's the Yamanite or 

366
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,240
manuscripts And that completely,
you know, destroys the entire 

367
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,200
people that that people would 
build on it or on top of it. 

368
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,000
Oh, there the there's a 
different gear set in the the 

369
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,760
the Gimbara of the Rambam look 
at the rabbi and Gimmara and had

370
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:37,480
a different gear style. 
And that's why there's no much 

371
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:38,480
lucky. 
You don't have to make a whole 

372
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:40,360
people on it. 
So, like, that was like my 

373
00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:42,560
awakening to like, whoa, there's
a whole nother world. 

374
00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:47,920
And then from that approach, you
know, I started seeing like 

375
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,440
another approach that people 
were, that a lot of people hold 

376
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:54,000
is that the Roman himself 
doesn't matter what he intended.

377
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,920
Because once I'm sure you guys 
heard this before and people can

378
00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,320
relate that people say that once
the Roman wrote something down, 

379
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,440
it was written with Ruach 
Hakodesh and therefore that 

380
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:08,200
became, you know, the sefer. 
And we can now nip up to 

381
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:09,880
whatever you want into that 
sefer. 

382
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,000
So I was like, that's really 
hard to really, you know, 

383
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,360
understand that Then like on top
of it, wait a second, there's 

384
00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:21,120
multiple Girsa odds. 
My daughter just woke up and I 

385
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:25,400
feel like that it's OK. 
So I was saying that, you know, 

386
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,200
the approach that people were 
saying that everything that 

387
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,840
wrote with was Ruha Kodesh. 
So the question was that I was 

388
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:37,360
asking is like, but which Girsa?
Because the Rambam we know 100% 

389
00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:41,840
that he will retract from his 
many times in Pirish Krishnaiot 

390
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,800
he kept on retracting from what 
he wrote previously. 

391
00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:48,600
You know, he finished it when he
was 30, something years old and 

392
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:50,600
throughout he was. 
Like 20, right? 

393
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,560
He started when he was like 20. 
Yeah, he was. 20 He added it 

394
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:55,600
three times or something. 
Yeah, so many. 

395
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:57,800
Like we don't even know because 
it just whatever kids they are, 

396
00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,160
we can find and he kept adding 
it. 

397
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,200
Then you're adding it and 
changing based off new. 

398
00:20:02,360 --> 00:20:04,600
You know, because Halaqa evolves
and a person. 

399
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:07,680
Hazard boy. 
Throughout the Gemara people the

400
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:09,320
rabbis are retracting from what 
they said. 

401
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:10,520
So why? 
Why should the Ramba be 

402
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:12,600
different? 
And even in the Girsalt and the 

403
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:16,120
Rambam we have different of his 
own Kibiya, we have different 

404
00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:18,320
Girsalt. 
And pretty much many times 

405
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,320
because he just retracted from 
what he said in the Ravkopa 

406
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:23,200
action is Hagdama. 
He says that the Yamanites would

407
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,640
send different scholar to maybe 
we should look him every year to

408
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,560
go and and and meet the Rambam 
and see get the latest updates 

409
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,000
on, you know, on the different 
new updates that he did the 

410
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:34,880
Tikkunin that he did on the the 
Rambam. 

411
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,120
So my question was like, which 
one is the one that's, you know,

412
00:20:38,120 --> 00:20:40,720
written with Ruha Kodesh? 
Then I remember reading in the 

413
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,160
Rambam himself and mournivukine.
It's like the mahi writes, it's 

414
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,560
so important that when you read 
a work, you have to try to 

415
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:48,880
understand the intent of the 
author. 

416
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,360
You know he is stressing that 
and then you know, the way we're

417
00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:55,600
reading it is not like that. 
So this is my kind of like, you 

418
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,000
know, like, you know, I'm like, 
whoa, this is a very different 

419
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,640
style than what's being taught 
out there and how to read the 

420
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:06,720
Rambam. 
And I just see that people read 

421
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,640
the Rambam. 
Oh yeah, somebody just told me 

422
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,040
this joke. 
My money. 

423
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:12,920
Why is it called Maimonides? 
Maimonides. 

424
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:14,800
You heard that one before? 
Yeah, of course it comes up a 

425
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:15,880
lot of our podcast. 
Doesn't it? 

426
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,000
Oh, it's different. 
I just read it like last week in

427
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:20,200
Maimonides. 
People are reading. 

428
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:21,760
With the party man late to the 
party. 

429
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,320
Not late to the party. 
OK, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

430
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,160
It's like, I'm sure you guys 
know that famous joke when what 

431
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,360
was the the smarty guy who goes 
up to or the Rama music? 

432
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:31,960
Shamayim. 
You know, that joke. 

433
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:33,840
Oh, no. 
Oh, OK. 

434
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,320
So I tried to say I'm sure 
there's like 1000 different 

435
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,400
variations of the story. 
But one time I think it was the 

436
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,360
IT was the Briska Rav and the 
Rambam with Shamayim. 

437
00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:44,800
And they're learning a Rambam 
and the Rambam learns it like 

438
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:46,320
that. 
And the Briska Rav says you 

439
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,360
don't know how to learn it. 
Yeah, Swarti, you know you don't

440
00:21:48,360 --> 00:21:49,720
know how to learn a Rambam. 
Here is Swarti. 

441
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,640
I didn't say it properly. 
There's sometimes a joke like 

442
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:54,840
that you don't know how to learn
the Rambam. 

443
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:57,240
But. 
And The funny thing is like now 

444
00:21:57,840 --> 00:21:59,160
the more I'm reading like it's 
tissue. 

445
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:04,640
What like for example, you read 
the you just read the the the 

446
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,760
the tissue what did the ramen. 
The limit was very simple Pashu.

447
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,600
It's very how you understand the
Sugiya is not no, no people they

448
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,120
didn't have that. 
It was very simple the shot 

449
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,400
structure. 
Very structured. 

450
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,200
Very structured, claudine and 
your language. 

451
00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:21,520
Also. 
Clarity was was extremely 

452
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,680
important for this very, very 
important clarity, which is 

453
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:28,440
interesting because today it's 
like clarity is looked down upon

454
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:32,520
to some extent like it's all 
about being able to you know. 

455
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,000
All the all the smart, if you 
show me more, very much into 

456
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:37,600
grammar. 
Grammar was so important to. 

457
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,480
That grammar, clarity, 
structure, Dick Duke, 

458
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,800
everything. 
Proper results, everything. 

459
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,120
Yeah. 
Absolutely, yeah. 

460
00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:48,400
And just as I see like you know 
how the people are learning 

461
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,880
their rhythm, where however they
want, they're making their money

462
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:52,640
on monities. 
Even today. 

463
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:58,840
I was in the bit Knesset today 
and somebody they they open up 

464
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:00,840
the Ramba. 
I mean he'll quote me lahim 

465
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,760
about how the Ramam says he 
brings down from the Gamar and 

466
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,160
Kitu bot that somebody who lives
in El Srel is like all his 

467
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,080
Averota mohel and somebody who's
also buried in El Sisel. 

468
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,080
All his Averota are are gone. 
So he's telling me like, yeah, 

469
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,320
you know you can be the biggest 
Russia all your life as long as 

470
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,040
you're buried in El Srel. 
You're gonna be good to go. 

471
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,280
I'm like, no, you that's not 
what the Roma meant. 

472
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,200
I think they can't be the ROM. 
You have to know that if you, if

473
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,120
you know the Rambam and you read
the ramen for the Rambam, that's

474
00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:30,000
not going to come. 
As I have Amina in your head, 

475
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,480
the Ramam is just coming to give
Shiva, Kaveri Tisrael to show 

476
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,280
the importance that pretty much 
is Hakamim. 

477
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,360
We're doing that, you know, to 
give the Shiva, that's how they 

478
00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:38,640
spoke. 
That's their lashon. 

479
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,880
But not to take a literal like 
you can be like a like a Nazi 

480
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,240
and then at the end of your life
because you're buried or you can

481
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:46,840
be a Nazi and you're living in 
ariasis all your life. 

482
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,120
So therefore you're OK to go. 
That's not there's no cheap 

483
00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:51,320
Sigulot and tricks you know with
Hashem. 

484
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,400
And it was just like I'm telling
you like we were in synagogue 

485
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,320
yelling at each other today 
about this and then you know you

486
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,280
have to speak their language. 
So what's the. 

487
00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:03,240
I went, I opened up the the 
Nosekilim on the Rambam and I 

488
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,120
found Baruch Hashem de Leche 
Mishnah on the side and he 

489
00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:12,240
writes the Rambam. 
He went with Rav Rabi Eliezer. 

490
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:16,280
I forgot Rabi Lazar but really 
he should have went with Rava on

491
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:21,120
the Gamara who's a Batra he came
after and but according to the 

492
00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:24,280
later opinion they don't learn 
that pursuit talking about 

493
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,280
you're going to be more held by 
living in actually so that's 

494
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,520
talking about you Surin. 
So the lechemist the right there

495
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,280
ah the Roman. 
What he meant he just bringing 

496
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:33,640
this in because it's not 
Sakalaha. 

497
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,240
It's just he's giving us Israel 
and don't take it like Sakalaha.

498
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,120
And then after of course I went 
to and he of course he says that

499
00:24:40,120 --> 00:24:41,600
straight up on the on the on the
spot. 

500
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,080
But you can't bring, you know 
that when you're talking with 

501
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:45,480
people that come from a 
different background. 

502
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,080
So you bring the Lechemist, 
you're like, OK, OK they still 

503
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:49,320
wanted to argue with me on 
something else. 

504
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,520
But the mindset that when you're
reading a certain, you know when

505
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,760
you're reading the Rambam, 
you're reading it how you want 

506
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,200
to read it and not what the 
Rambam meant. 

507
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,720
So because of that you know 
trying to understand the Rambam,

508
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,520
you know where else will you go 
besides reading the Rambam's 

509
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:03,920
works. 
You want to get the closest 

510
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:05,520
source as well as Rabin Avram in
a Rambam. 

511
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,560
So now after that whole how 
every minute's whole story, 

512
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,680
that's how we get the Rambam. 
Just a natural. 

513
00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:15,520
You know if you that natural 
desire to know the Rambam, that 

514
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,280
at least the best second hand 
source we can get is Rabin Avram

515
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,720
in a Rambam. 
And it's actually it's funny in 

516
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,920
my Shiva that I went to there's 
a one rabbi there that he 

517
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,600
himself translated. 
He's Ashkenazi Rabbi H Rabbi 

518
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,240
Winslbert. 
He translated the Hamaspik lo of

519
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:32,960
the Hashem. 
I'm sure you guys are familiar 

520
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,200
but just for the the viewers 
that Hamaspik lo of the Hashem 

521
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,520
it was his Magdalen Lopez a 
humongous collection of of of 

522
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,960
his writings that he wrote not a
collection but his his his his 

523
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,360
safer that he wrote. 
We don't know how big it was 

524
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,240
unfortunately we lost most of it
and we're just finding fragments

525
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:56,640
or we have some fragments of it 
this so this safer the one that 

526
00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:04,320
we published with the dot press 
that was a pedic in his safer 

527
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:09,480
people didn't know that but from
now now we're pretty much 100% 

528
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,160
sure that it's a it's a fragment
from I must speak of dasham. 

529
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,680
I just dealt with one pic on how
to understand the mamrim of 

530
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,320
Hazel but you have other ones 
that we have So Rabbi Wenzelberg

531
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,360
and the Ishiva there he 
published a different one more 

532
00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:26,280
on talking about his body do 10 
and I think it's called the the 

533
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,480
guide for serving God. 
I think it's published by the 

534
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:30,440
guide. 
I think it's called the Guide 

535
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,080
for Serving Hashem. 
I forgot what it's called the 

536
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:37,920
English name that they used but 
and that's it's more about the 

537
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,400
talking about the that which 
individual can get close 

538
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,560
connection to Hashem. 
So I got very into that as well,

539
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,280
reading that and then started 
reading let's say his tissue, 

540
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:50,280
what we got Avraham and just any
time he could find that he talks

541
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:56,520
about what the Ramam said 
especially, I'm sorry, I never 

542
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:58,840
knew about that. 
They need they're very outdated 

543
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,160
like the the, the Girsa. 
The text is very bad. 

544
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,720
There's actually a a good 
Yemenite friend of mine Ravi 

545
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,440
Sharabi. 
He's working on doing a new one 

546
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:06,440
with a new. 
I didn't. 

547
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:07,600
Know about this? 
Awesome. 

548
00:27:08,120 --> 00:27:10,040
Let me know when that comes out.
I'd I'd like to get there. 

549
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:16,040
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 
So, so seeing whatever I can can

550
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,560
find about Ravin Ravima Rahman, 
there's actually a Ravmoshi 

551
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,680
Maimon in Muncie. 
I think maybe he lives in 

552
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:22,920
Lakewood. 
I'm not sure where he lives now,

553
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,800
but he put out these beautiful 
blue books as well on. 

554
00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:29,040
His name is Rabbi Moshe Maimon. 
That's cool. 

555
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,280
Moshe Maimon. 
He is his family. 

556
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,920
They claim to be descendants of 
the the Ramam as well. 

557
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,720
They're from Turkey though, so 
he put out on, you know, on on 

558
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:41,680
on Beta sheep. 
Oh, these are emotional. 

559
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,920
Yeah, it's unbelievable. 
These are amazing. 

560
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,120
They also have on the Mama. 
Mama Kazal as well. 

561
00:27:49,120 --> 00:27:52,480
So he I I was in contact with 
him and he actually he gave me 

562
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,120
the his Hebrew version that he 
used which is actually the 

563
00:27:55,120 --> 00:27:59,680
Hebrew version that Rabbi 
Winselberg used and using 

564
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,880
helping with a a Yamanite rabbi 
as well of Korach and Ertz 

565
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,680
Israel and it's the one that was
really worked on by a Rabbi 

566
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,600
Moshe Meiselman in in in Israel.
I think it's the ishiva. 

567
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:12,840
You guys know what Ishiva it's 
called. 

568
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,360
I don't know. 
I forgot what it is. 

569
00:28:18,360 --> 00:28:21,640
It's a it's a lot of American 
yeshiva there he he wrote a 

570
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:29,680
sector called Torah Hazel in 
science. 

571
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,480
Oh, I've seen that around. 
That's worth it. 

572
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,480
So, he wrote. 
He actually brings the entire 

573
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:42,680
Girsa in the back of the of the 
safer because he's trying to the

574
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,360
the pretty much the entire book.
It probably was a a book to go 

575
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,800
naked Rav Nathan Slifkin. 
That's why this whole book was 

576
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,440
probably pretty much written. 
I've seen a back. 

577
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:53,800
Yes, that's what it is. 
Yes, yes, on his. 

578
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,440
On Slifkin's, I was Slifkin's 
side. 

579
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,440
He has like a kind of like a. 
Critique. 

580
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,000
Yes, So pretty much the whole 
thing. 

581
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,960
And and the problem that the 
leader of this movement of of, 

582
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,360
you know, ha HAMIM can make 
mistakes in science was, you 

583
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:12,480
know, seemingly at least because
that had people had access to it

584
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,000
for hundreds of years was Rabin 
Rahmanirami because of this 

585
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,640
Mahmud of Hazel because it was 
printed in every single Eniacov 

586
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,440
in the beginning of the Eniacov 
they bring it down, this whole 

587
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,840
Mahmud of Hazel stating that 
Hakami make mistakes in science.

588
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:30,240
So you know, people from the 
morgue Shivish world, they 

589
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,960
didn't like that so much. 
So Rabbi Meiselman, he goes out 

590
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,600
to get the using the girsel that
they found the new, the new 

591
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,360
kitveyad they found in 
Mitzrayim. 

592
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,120
And it was interesting because 
the parts, the very, the more 

593
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:48,320
controversial parts were not 
found in the Kitveyad. 

594
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:53,760
Only the, let's say more 
classic, more conventional, 

595
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,480
more, you know, orthodox. 
Yeah, soundable parts for 

596
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,640
certain people were found in 
were found in the Kitveyad. 

597
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,760
So they found around maybe let's
say 2/3 of the of of the entire 

598
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,200
mahammar in Caviad. 
But the 1/3, which is the 

599
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,560
beginning of the sepher, which 
really gets into the whole thing

600
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:12,800
about the ha hamim erring in 
science, let's say. 

601
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,440
And again, it's very important 
to know that in the world of the

602
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,320
Rabbin Rabbi and Rahman, the 
Rahman as well, they look at 

603
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,520
this like ha hamim. 
They make mistakes and they 

604
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,680
admit to it and it's sheva and 
it's beautiful. 

605
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,680
And they were using the advanced
science at their time and it's 

606
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:29,040
not from the science. 
But so Rabbi Meisman on the 

607
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,840
other hand is trying to show 
that you know, it's probably 

608
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:33,840
Mizzou yaf that whole 
introduction part. 

609
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,000
The whole bit not the intro in 
the beginning of the Mammar is 

610
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:37,880
Mizzou yaf. 
It's not from it's forge, it's 

611
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,240
not from Rabin Rabin or Rahman. 
Impossible. 

612
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,560
So Ramos Shimaiman, he dealt 
with it well, very well in his 

613
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:45,880
book. 
He didn't really call out to 

614
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,720
Rabin Mazemin but in in in the 
English, safer in the 

615
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,520
understanding Hazel. 
I brought in a lot of the quotes

616
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,240
that rabble mazamin, Rabbi 
Mazamin proved while it's 

617
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,320
incorrect this that it's it's 
forged. 

618
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,280
And I was just trying to defend 
and show that you know this is 

619
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,760
exactly the Shravov, the Rambam 
himself and not only that is the

620
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,400
Shravov. 
So many of the Gaonin that came 

621
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:12,200
before their approach to major 
shame and and and also these 

622
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:16,520
certain sayings or or certain 
scientific sayings that say that

623
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,120
you know they they didn't held 
that there was a luckily binding

624
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,360
nor was it something that they 
received on RC9. 

625
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:26,400
And on top of it there's so many
acronym as well that other rich 

626
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,760
rhonym and other Afronym that 
held the same Ashrafa as well. 

627
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,240
So that's pretty. 
It's not a it's not a new thing 

628
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,120
that's that's the thing people 
think that it's like it's like a

629
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,800
like a dat Yahir. 
It's It's really not. 

630
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,040
Yeah. 
Well, it's the, it's like the 

631
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,160
most traditional approach 
actually that we have. 

632
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:43,920
It's the most traditional 
approach. 

633
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,280
It's just, you know, in, let's 
say in the world of the Balletto

634
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,080
Safote, etcetera, they didn't 
have that approach at all. 

635
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,360
It was a very different approach
and that became the more 

636
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:57,640
mainstream approach. 
But for me, at least in this 

637
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,600
world and living in a generation
where let's say I came from, 

638
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:02,360
it's important to know my 
background. 

639
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,960
I guess that's why I said it. 
Coming from a world where I'm 

640
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:10,640
from that generation loving to 
watch the debates between with 

641
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,040
Sam Harris and we're all these 
atheists. 

642
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:13,400
The. 
The. 

643
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,800
Christopher Hitchin. 
Dawkins, Hitchin, Dawkins, 

644
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:21,320
fighting, let's say great 
Christian apologetics like 

645
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,760
William, like Crane, Craig, 
William, Craig, all these great 

646
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,040
guys. 
Like I love watching the debates

647
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,040
and seeing these different 
things. 

648
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,560
And you know there is knowledge.
There is Huffman Lego in with 

649
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,200
there is definitely knowledge. 
And how do we deal with it? 

650
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,920
How we, you know, if you want to
have a Judaism that can actually

651
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,960
survive in university on a 
university level, you know, be 

652
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,680
able to argue with the 
professors and you know, say my 

653
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,680
Judaism stands and you know I 
can be a orderly goem even 

654
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,240
nowadays and with my Judaism and
teach you, even if you want to 

655
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:50,880
accept evolution, no problem, we
can. 

656
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:52,760
We can work with evolution. 
You don't want to. 

657
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:54,640
OK, whatever. 
Whatever it is, we can work with

658
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:56,120
it with this approach, Because 
you're not. 

659
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,640
You know, not married to 
anything. 

660
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,880
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
You're not exposing your Judaism

661
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,360
because you're accepting because
when you accept certain things 

662
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,240
as dogma and saying that it's 
harsi nay and that every you 

663
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,320
know the the way that people 
understand torch about PE 

664
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,960
nowadays is it's just so 
all-encompassing torch about PE,

665
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:14,720
every single thing was torch 
about PE. 

666
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,200
Therefore, now you actually are 
exposing your duties because you

667
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,920
know if you find something that 
doesn't fit with it and the 

668
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:22,560
whole thing can fall. 
But when you have the 

669
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:24,920
conception, there's a 
misconception by a lot of people

670
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,280
like that they think that 
everything we have today was 

671
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:32,040
originating in Harsi nay. 
And it's really like it's 

672
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,840
problematic because you you run 
into these kind of issues all 

673
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,480
the time. 
All the time yeah I mean you you

674
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:42,800
you open up the the Rambam like 
you had a few of them 30 

675
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:48,200
something of them and and he 
lists them and everything else 

676
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,880
most of torch about page is what
the San Hedren chose because 

677
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,000
they had new situations came up 
they had a Mach locate and they 

678
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,240
voted on majority and that 
became part of the you know 

679
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,600
Torcia Balpe that is Torcia 
Balpe it's an ongoing evolution 

680
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,960
of nuke situations happening and
the hamim being posek what's 

681
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,120
allahab based off a majority 
vote and that's Torcia Balpe but

682
00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:11,639
everything. 
Else in the system, yeah, the 

683
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,800
system is what's exactly and and
what we got in RC 9 is really 

684
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,520
the the foundation, it's the the
basis of all the mitzvot. 

685
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,480
But obviously every generation 
has to build off of that because

686
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:25,159
things change, times change. 
So we have these courts, you 

687
00:34:25,159 --> 00:34:27,360
know, like you mentioned. 
So I think that's just something

688
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,000
that's important for us to 
mention here because, you know, 

689
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,199
people don't always have that 
understanding. 

690
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:34,679
Absolutely, yeah. 
I'm telling you and it's it's 

691
00:34:34,679 --> 00:34:40,440
very when you have this approach
you are able like last week I've

692
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,880
been a guy, some a person, a 
friend of mine. 

693
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:45,000
Now he became a good friend of 
mine. 

694
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,679
He was trying. 
He was becoming Jewish for many,

695
00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:49,679
many years, converting 5-6 
years. 

696
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:54,239
He became much like a Tamil 
Hakam or as the Ramam said Tamil

697
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,400
Hakamim. 
He was a became a scholar. 

698
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,840
He never converted. 
But because of you know, the 

699
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:03,520
atmosphere in the in the, in the
approach of the Jews, he was 

700
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,360
around. 
He decided you know what, it's 

701
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,560
not for him and he became a 
Muslim, but a very devout 

702
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:15,040
Muslim. 
Yeah and and and so we we have 

703
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:19,200
now it's like once a week we 
talk and he tries to prove Islam

704
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:24,400
to me and I maybe he's going to 
listen to this later. 

705
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,400
But I his arguments, they don't 
work at all. 

706
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:31,160
When you come with an approach 
from the Rambam, that style of 

707
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,440
the approach of the Gammonin, 
because we don't have that we're

708
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,120
not bound to certain things that
they have to be bound to that 

709
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,520
other people are bound to no. 
And and at the same time too if 

710
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,680
there's something that ha hamim 
say that's not talaq, you don't 

711
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,360
have to say, we don't have to 
say it's you know it's we have 

712
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,280
to follow that type of hashcuff 
or even if it's let's say it is 

713
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:56,040
halakhic for example that I talk
about in the book there could be

714
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,280
things that were let's say 
scientific the Hakamim were 

715
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,520
posaic and we have to follow it.
But that's just for example 

716
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,280
let's say the Ramam says in in 
that there are certain things 

717
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,600
nowadays we see the animals 
they're surviving much more than

718
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,160
one year and therefore why is it
a problem? 

719
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:13,640
The Ramam says it doesn't matter
we can't add or we can't remove 

720
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,440
because that was something that 
was goes there by the Hakamim. 

721
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,160
So until we have a new based in 
there's a technicality we just 

722
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,240
can't change the law even though
if it's not scientifically you 

723
00:36:23,240 --> 00:36:25,960
know sound at the moment or for 
example Ralph Herzog he held 

724
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:28,840
about killing Kiniman Shabbat 
lice. 

725
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,160
You know in the entire world 
people believe in spontaneous 

726
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:37,520
generation and that lice came 
out of nowhere until the the 

727
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,520
invention of a microscope and 
people can see oh wow lice they 

728
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,720
actually don't spontaneous 
generate they actually have 

729
00:36:42,720 --> 00:36:45,920
period rivia. 
Therefore maybe we can kill them

730
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,520
nowadays because the Gemara says
the Mishnah says you can kill 

731
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,120
Kenny man Shabbat because they 
don't come from they spontaneous

732
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,760
generate so the Halaka is you're
allowed to kill they're almost 

733
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,680
poset like that. 
So are we still nowadays Alaka 

734
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:00,480
killed Who can should we be 
mahmir or not kill. 

735
00:37:00,720 --> 00:37:03,000
So the approach if I recall 
correctly of Rough Hertzog is 

736
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,880
like, no, we can actually still 
kill them because that's the 

737
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,240
Halaka and that's how Halaka is 
formatted. 

738
00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:10,120
You know the the Supreme Court 
divide me, Sir. 

739
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,120
Let's pull second like that. 
So we still have to follow that 

740
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,320
law because of the technicality.
If the new bid didn't come 

741
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,720
without the shame when all the 
rabbis get to act together we 

742
00:37:16,720 --> 00:37:19,120
want to make a new Sanhedrin. 
And that's the only way we could

743
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,480
have a unified Halaja is when we
have a Sanhedrin. 

744
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:26,560
Then things can change but not 
until then so it doesn't your 

745
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,080
Judaism is so much more concrete
and able to defend yourself in 

746
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:31,040
this way. 
I see it all the time. 

747
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,520
I there's also there's a very 
big Jew for Jesus. 

748
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:36,680
His name is Doctor Michael 
Brown. 

749
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,560
Yeah, they see the mustache. 
Yes, the guy with a mustache and

750
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:45,000
he unfortunately I see him, he 
he argues with the rabbis and he

751
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,280
defeats them, you know? 
Know why? 

752
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,040
Actually, I saw him, even a 
guest on our previous guest on 

753
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,040
our show, Rabbi Told You Singer.
The reason why he defeats him is

754
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,600
because he kind of uses mudrash 
as his. 

755
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:58,720
He argues against mudrash. 
Is this what you're going to get

756
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,120
to? 
And and the rabbis, what do we 

757
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,160
do? 
You know, because now he kind 

758
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,760
of, like cornered us. 
The problem is like hello. 

759
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:06,840
Don't you understand? 
Hello. 

760
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,480
Exactly, exactly. 
I mean he he really, I love to 

761
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,840
be a singer but he cornered to 
be a singer in one place. 

762
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:17,000
He actually, you know have to be
a singer said that if maybe we 

763
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:18,040
should edit this after I don't 
know. 

764
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,440
But he said that. 
He said that you know, if you, 

765
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,400
if you can, if you can prove me 
this, that one rabbi held in 

766
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:32,080
that in in in Isaiah 52 or 53 
that it was talking about the 

767
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:33,640
Messiah and not Tami. 
Surreal. 

768
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:35,480
Then you know, I'll convert to 
Christianity. 

769
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,040
And Doctor Michael Brown 
actually found a Rishon that 

770
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,360
held like that. 
But for us, it doesn't it 

771
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,400
doesn't it? 
Doesn't the needle in any way? 

772
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:43,520
It's not. 
It's it's not. 

773
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,200
Oh God, yeah. 
Oh, I'm telling you, I actually 

774
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,600
I started, I bought, I have his 
Doctor Michael Brown series on 

775
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,120
like, you know, trying to 
disprove torture balpe and 

776
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,480
trying to prove this and that. 
I mean, when you have this, this

777
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:01,120
Hashka FA of of like of the 
Rambam or let's say the later of

778
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:05,200
Haham Fawar, at least you can 
destroy these guys in a second 

779
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:07,160
one second. 
Besides the fact that their 

780
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,840
entire religion, Christianity is
like, it's like Midrashim, 

781
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,920
literally their whole religion, 
the New Testament is all about 

782
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:14,760
demonology. 
Basically a midrash. 

783
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,240
I mean, there have been big, big
rabbis who actually were OK with

784
00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:20,320
studying the New Testament as a 
midrash. 

785
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,720
You know it's not. 
Big Midrash and it's all about, 

786
00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:27,480
you know, the Bukim and and 
people being possessed with the 

787
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,160
devil and him taking it. 
It's all magic and sorcery, you 

788
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:31,960
know, The whole thing is like 
that. 

789
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,000
So this approach is just so it's
unbelievable. 

790
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,520
And I'm telling you I can you 
can argue with anybody when you 

791
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,440
have this and you're already you
tasted it, you're you watch his 

792
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,760
debates and be like. 
You just want to jump in there 

793
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:48,480
and you know, I think what Rabbi
Toby Singer is doing is 

794
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,280
unbelievable to dedicate his 
life to this. 

795
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,800
But I think that's part of the 
the issue why he wasn't able to 

796
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,920
answer that question, because I 
think he's been so immersed in 

797
00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:00,280
this specific topic that maybe 
he's not as nuanced in those 

798
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,840
areas of understanding, let's 
say, what the goanim said about 

799
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,240
Midrash. 
He's niche, yeah, he's very 

800
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,120
that's his focus, but. 
A lot. 

801
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:12,160
Of but overall I think his he 
does so much good for like 99% 

802
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:16,960
of what he says just. 
He can no the he knows the 

803
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,560
entire New Testament balpe and 
he can destroy them in the New 

804
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:20,720
Testament. 
It's unbelievable. 

805
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:22,560
And he knows Tanakh more than 
you know. 

806
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,000
Unfortunately, a lot of Orthodox
Jews don't want enough at all. 

807
00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:27,400
And he's just holding and he's 
there to defend us and he's 

808
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,200
lesson and. 
Another thing about about Amen. 

809
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,280
Another thing about you know the
the debating with Christians. 

810
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,600
One of the things that I think 
they use as a weapon against a 

811
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:43,000
lot of rabbis and I think they 
also corner a lot of Jews with 

812
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,840
with the Kabbalah. 
And again if you if you hold 

813
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:49,080
like the Rambam you won't fall 
into those traps because 

814
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,880
Kabbalah really does not apply 
and and and they use it if you 

815
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,440
go to the Jews or Jesus website.
I mentioned this before in the 

816
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:57,640
podcast. 
Almost all of their arguments 

817
00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:59,520
are based on Midrash and 
Kabbalah. 

818
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:01,680
Absolutely. 
They'll find, they'll find, you 

819
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:05,360
know the ABBA IMA Zaryan pin and
show that there's a Trinity in 

820
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,320
Kabbalah and they'll do all 
these things like these like 

821
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,000
mental gymnastics using that, 
those ideas. 

822
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,880
And you're just like, OK, well 
most, many, many Jews don't 

823
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:15,520
accept Kabbalah, right? 
So it's wrong. 

824
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:16,840
Point. 
It's wrong point, You know, I 

825
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,360
don't know if you guys read the 
Vikuach of the Ramban with Pablo

826
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,440
Christiani, he added. 
In And there it's actually 

827
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,080
fascinating. 
The the, the, the, the, the 

828
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,280
Christian, unfortunately. 
Pablo Christiani? 

829
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:29,120
Yeah, Pablo. 
Christian. 

830
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:30,480
He had to stay away from the 
Kabbalah stuff. 

831
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:31,520
It wouldn't help the cause, 
yeah. 

832
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,240
Yeah, but you always keep 
attacking the Ramban with 

833
00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:37,080
Midrasheen, Yeah. 
And what did the Ramban say? 

834
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:38,560
I actually quoted in 
Understanding Azal. 

835
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,280
He's saying what is Amidrash. 
He told him he's like, what is 

836
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,200
Amidrash? 
Amidrash is Let's say one of 

837
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,920
your popes come up and starts 
giving a dirasha on something. 

838
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,360
That's what Amidrasha is. 
Each Rabbi comes and says 

839
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,400
something. 
He doesn't source it saying that

840
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,360
he got it from his rabbi that 
got it from his Rabbi. 

841
00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:58,160
Rabbi, there's no, they're not 
saying I received it. 

842
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,400
You know, all the way from here 
it's he's giving a dirasha 

843
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,000
exposition on something and 
that's it. 

844
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,760
So I don't have to know. 
All the Ramans says I don't have

845
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:07,240
to know. 
Sometimes he would say in the I 

846
00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:10,440
don't know this Midrash #1, 
because there's any of our so 

847
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,320
there's so many midrash. 
We're even finding more. 

848
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:15,800
You know the Midrashian, so many
Midrashian, thousands. 

849
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,280
We know when certain Midrashian 
were written or not. 

850
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,480
And on top of it, I you can 
argue with the midrash, that's 

851
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:23,000
what the Ramans said if that's 
what. 

852
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,600
And then he would still try to 
speak their language and show 

853
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:29,000
even within the Midrash that you
know you're incorrect. 

854
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:31,240
But it's a very important 
principle to know that too. 

855
00:42:31,240 --> 00:42:32,440
You know when you don't take 
Midrash? 

856
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:37,160
Ramban uses strictly rational 
arguments there. 

857
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,720
He doesn't tap into Kabbalah 
because that's opening 

858
00:42:40,720 --> 00:42:42,320
Pandora's. 
Box doesn't help the cause. 

859
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,040
Yeah, we mentioned it recently 
on other podcast recently. 

860
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,800
It's like okay, you wanna refute
the Trinity. 

861
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,880
If you're gonna introduce this 
sphero, even if you have a very 

862
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:55,160
conservative and kosher kind of 
understanding of it, it's still 

863
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,640
you're just creating bigger 
problems than solutions, you 

864
00:42:58,640 --> 00:42:59,080
know? 
Oh yeah. 

865
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:00,240
Oh no. 
And these Christians, they know 

866
00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:02,800
that you, you start telling them
about, you know, the Trinity. 

867
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,080
Is that what a Zara? 
They're going to get you with 

868
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,720
the Spherot and they're going to
show you why the Trinity. 

869
00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:10,320
They can explain very easily why
the Trinity is not the Burazera.

870
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,280
You know, they they can explain 
they had beautiful. 

871
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,440
Yeah, they really explain it and
they know they have. 

872
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,280
I mean, you know, you know, you 
grew up in the yeshiva world and

873
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:20,120
you think like, you know, these 
guys don't know anything. 

874
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:21,720
These guys know a lot. 
They're very. 

875
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,600
Extremely first of all. 
It's a misconception that I've 

876
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:28,040
only recently started realizing 
like in the past few years. 

877
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:29,560
Like. 
To me, the Trinity made 

878
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:33,960
absolutely no sense. 
Only like only a few years ago 

879
00:43:34,240 --> 00:43:38,240
did I realize that I was 
literally thinking Trinitarian 

880
00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:39,720
without even realizing it all 
the time. 

881
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:41,960
Literally didn't even realize 
what I was doing. 

882
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,200
We're actually going to have a, 
we're going to have a podcast 

883
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:45,760
soon. 
We're going to be recording it 

884
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:46,840
tomorrow. 
I don't know when we're going to

885
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,120
release it, but on the now 
they're on the topic on 

886
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,640
Gnosticism and its influence on 
both Christianity and Judaism. 

887
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,320
We didn't took Kabbalah. 
So it's a very important people 

888
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:01,360
to understand you know it's it's
really because like we said if 

889
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:07,680
you go with Rambam and this this
approach to to hashkafa you 

890
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:09,200
really don't run into any 
problems. 

891
00:44:09,240 --> 00:44:13,000
It's just like even even the we 
were we had a rabbi, Rabbi my 

892
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:17,160
roof on and we did an episode 
about Spinoza and I I recommend 

893
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,720
everybody check that out and he 
basically shows throughout even 

894
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,240
the atheist today all the 
problems that people have 

895
00:44:23,240 --> 00:44:25,720
against the idea of God. 
If you have the Rambam's 

896
00:44:25,720 --> 00:44:30,160
approach to To God, it's more 
it's something that even a 

897
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:33,880
thoughtful kind of atheist would
be open to accepting, because 

898
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:37,600
it's it's so it's so like, 
reasonable, yes. 

899
00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:45,200
And you know, I I see this 
happen all the time because I 

900
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,760
have a lot of friends, let's say
they got Smika and certain Kuru 

901
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:52,600
of Kodalim and they try to go 
and do Kuru of Rehokim. 

902
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:57,960
And it's not so easy for them 
because the P, the generation 

903
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:02,240
now, the people, the kids 
nowadays, they're even, they're 

904
00:45:02,240 --> 00:45:03,880
10 times more educated than I 
was. 

905
00:45:04,240 --> 00:45:06,720
They have in in a second. 
They know they're holding 

906
00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:09,440
everything about everything. 
Regular people, they're 

907
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:11,320
listening. 
What's that famous show that 

908
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:13,240
everybody listens to, Joe? 
Rogan. 

909
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:18,080
Everyone's people, yeah. 
People love the the, the science

910
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:19,840
is flowing. 
People love it. 

911
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:23,240
Elon Musk is the new Yashka. 
You know, people love the 

912
00:45:23,240 --> 00:45:24,880
science. 
People are they, they love this.

913
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,600
People are so educated. 
And in the religious world, it's

914
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:29,760
just like completely opposite. 
You know, you ask, 

915
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:32,720
unfortunately, big rabbi is 
Gadolin. 

916
00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:34,880
You know, tell us the difference
between a neuron and electron 

917
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:36,800
and all the What's the protein 
or how does it matter? 

918
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:38,520
Maybe what's the difference 
between chemistry and biology? 

919
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:40,520
Basic stuff, we. 
Don't know. 

920
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:41,960
It's a very big problem and you 
know. 

921
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:46,680
Gadolin Yeah, yeah, it's. 
Actually, I think like what 

922
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,120
people should look into is Ralph
Cook, what he says about 

923
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,760
atheism. 
Atheism is kind of forcing 

924
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:57,000
Judaism to look itself in the 
mirror and sanitize itself. 

925
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,560
And kind of like you can't have 
an atheist who believes in, 

926
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,760
like, superstition and and you 
know this kind, this kind of 

927
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:07,200
nonsense. 
So it forces Judaism to become 

928
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:11,000
kind of more refined and 
sophisticated and intelligent. 

929
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:15,200
No longer it has to drop all of 
the all the crazy stuff that has

930
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:17,040
attached itself to Judaism over 
the years. 

931
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,360
It's forcing Judaism to become 
kind of like back to its roots, 

932
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:23,960
back to the fundamentals. 
It's part of why our podcast 

933
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,040
appeals. 
We've we've seen the people who 

934
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:28,120
reach out to us. 
A lot of them are like, excorate

935
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:30,880
them, excrecide them, who didn't
think there was a Derek for 

936
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:32,200
them. 
They found find Judaism to be 

937
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,240
very like, kind of arcane and 
and superstitious. 

938
00:46:35,240 --> 00:46:37,240
And they're like, oh wow, it's 
actually a Hokhmah. 

939
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:39,040
There's a, there's a tradition, 
there's a Rambam. 

940
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:42,640
We only heard we learned Rambam 
through the eyes of a different 

941
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:43,560
rabbi. 
You know, like. 

942
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:45,200
Which is what? 
We were talking about. 

943
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:51,360
So this stuff, deathbed 
confessionals, all these 

944
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:55,200
different. 
Confessional. 

945
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:58,000
I can't stress it enough. 
This generation now, now you 

946
00:46:58,000 --> 00:46:59,560
have this artificial 
intelligence chat. 

947
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:00,720
What chat? 
What's it called? 

948
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:04,640
You want any information? 
It's right there in front of 

949
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:07,120
you. 
This is a generation door, Di. 

950
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:10,440
It's like to the extreme now and
you know we're up for a battle 

951
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:12,560
now. 
It's a big battle we can do all 

952
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:16,040
the Jews that are already in 
Orthodox Judaism, OK for sure. 

953
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,040
The bubble's getting, you know, 
the Bible, it's getting becoming

954
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:20,880
more a bigger bubble. 
I don't know how you say bigger 

955
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:23,760
or smaller bubble, but they have
to keep in their bubble more 

956
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,400
because you know to fight this 
world. 

957
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,440
And if you're not prepared to 
really deal with this, the 

958
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,200
reality that people know the 
knowledge that's out there and 

959
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:34,760
if you don't have the proper 
tools for it, it's it's really, 

960
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:36,440
it's it's very dangerous. 
So that's very. 

961
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:41,120
Optimistic about, you know, like
like even you see the interest. 

962
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,360
Like Lex Friedman podcast, also 
another famous podcast. 

963
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,880
He's having like Muslims on 
Jordan Peterson, having 

964
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:49,360
Christians on all these people 
having these conversations all 

965
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:51,800
these years, for centuries, all 
these religions have kind of 

966
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:54,640
been at each other's throats the
first time. 

967
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,600
There's this kind of place where
everyone could just have these 

968
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,560
conversations and it's bringing 
knowledge of God to the world. 

969
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:03,920
Like even even though 
Christianity, we don't believe 

970
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:07,200
Christianity or Islam is the 
truth, but they contain a lot of

971
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:09,360
truths and they're positive 
developments for mankind 

972
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:13,040
according to Rambam, where it's 
like, you know, they're kind of 

973
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:16,720
pushing the idea of Hashem to 
the world, even if it's not 

974
00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:19,240
exactly the way. 
But it's still for the Goem. 

975
00:48:19,240 --> 00:48:22,920
It's it's it's great. 
Even for you know the way of the

976
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,880
Rambam right now I'm actually 
translating a safer, even 

977
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,720
Falaquera. 
I mean they they were learning 

978
00:48:28,720 --> 00:48:30,560
from the going. 
They were best friends with the 

979
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:33,040
Rahman, learned so much from the
Sufi Muslims. 

980
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,960
He said that they they they 
contain some of the misorah that

981
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,080
we lost, you know, the the. 
Way they pray. 

982
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,480
They pray, etcetera, certain 
style of life. 

983
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:44,800
So I mean, there's so much in 
Islam. 

984
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,840
You know, I talked to like say 
my Muslim friend or other Muslim

985
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,720
friends and they're like, you 
know, they're more than me. 

986
00:48:50,720 --> 00:48:52,560
I'm like, wow. 
You know, I got, you know, 

987
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:55,080
sometimes you can relate to them
like wow and and and it's such a

988
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:58,280
copy of Judaism Islam very. 
So we can. 

989
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:00,240
We can. 
Learn a lot from from them as 

990
00:49:00,240 --> 00:49:01,480
well. 
I think that there's a lot of. 

991
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:03,200
World, yeah. 
And there's a lot of 

992
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:06,040
similarities, of course, a lot 
of big differences. 

993
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:09,120
And you know when we have our 
that the proper approach and 

994
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:11,440
foundation that, you know Baruch
Hashim, you guys are pushing 

995
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:15,200
for, we're able to show and 
really be on top of this game of

996
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,960
our religion. 
But there's definitely so much, 

997
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,160
you know, we're definitely in 
the same boat in a lot of 

998
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:22,200
matters, for sure. 
Absolutely, yeah. 

999
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:26,000
I mean, I actually, I'm going to
be releasing a podcast with I 

1000
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:29,680
had with Imam, so look forward 
to that one. 

1001
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:32,560
That's beautiful. 
Beautiful. 

1002
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:36,480
I also think that the the, the 
bubble system, how long can it 

1003
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:39,520
really last in this day and age?
I don't think they can really 

1004
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:42,640
last. 
I mean it's it's a, it's a type 

1005
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:45,760
of, it doesn't end well, these 
type of things. 

1006
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:50,040
People, people, you can't 
constrict people for too long 

1007
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:52,320
eventually. 
And we've seen it. 

1008
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,600
You know, we've seen it. 
You know, you've seen it like 

1009
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,120
this year with people that you 
know in that world, right? 

1010
00:49:58,120 --> 00:49:59,960
That you. 
Know the dostora kind of 

1011
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:04,400
mentality is falling apart at 
the and it seems and it's it's 

1012
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:07,920
it's only a matter of time till 
people have to choose. 

1013
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:12,040
You know, do they still want a 
Judaism that is based in truth 

1014
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:13,720
and tradition? 
And reality. 

1015
00:50:13,720 --> 00:50:16,680
And reality, right? 
Or or are we going to keep 

1016
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:20,360
playing this, you know, game 
that it's just put your head in 

1017
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:22,840
the sand, you know? 
And it's a caval because like 

1018
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:26,200
you say, like if people would 
open their open their minds to 

1019
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:28,880
the to the Rambam and to the 
hochman the loose in general, 

1020
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:30,960
you know the world is your 
friend. 

1021
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:33,480
Knowledge is your friends door 
to your mind. 

1022
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:38,680
Man. 
It's AIDS us, you know, So it's 

1023
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,120
it's Mamasha Kaval. 
And you know, the whole point of

1024
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:45,040
this podcast is to try to open 
people's eyes to to that Derek. 

1025
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:46,800
Science is not like you 
mentioned earlier. 

1026
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:48,760
It's not a threat. 
It's it's our friend. 

1027
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:49,360
It's. 
A. 

1028
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:53,440
The the creator of the world is 
also the you know, the author of

1029
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:55,280
the Torah is also the the author
of the world. 

1030
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,040
It's there's they're not two 
separate categories. 

1031
00:50:58,720 --> 00:51:00,320
Absolutely no. 
Well, you said it. 

1032
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:03,520
It's true because you know how 
much can this bubble go for in 

1033
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,400
in history it it does repeat 
itself. 

1034
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:09,240
There was, you know, 
unfortunately 90 something 

1035
00:51:09,240 --> 00:51:11,320
percent of all Ashkenazi went 
off the day when, you know, 

1036
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,400
Napoleon allowed, you know, he's
opened up the world to them. 

1037
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:19,120
And how were they, how was the 
Hashka before that, when when 

1038
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:22,720
Napoleon allowed them to start 
becoming, you know, included in 

1039
00:51:22,720 --> 00:51:24,800
society? 
I think maybe I'm getting 

1040
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:26,080
history wrong, but I thought it 
was Napoleon. 

1041
00:51:26,240 --> 00:51:31,840
But you know it it 90 something 
percent of all Jews, you know of

1042
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:33,320
Ashkenazi Jews completely went 
off. 

1043
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:38,600
You know nowadays you know does 
history repeat itself again if 

1044
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:40,560
so many. 
The bubble, the people, the 

1045
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:43,840
closed mindedness of people is 
getting more and more closed the

1046
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:46,880
way they they they're, they're 
so intolerable to certain ideas 

1047
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:49,040
if you even quote. 
I remember my brother once 

1048
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:51,320
quoted he was even at the 
Vartora. 

1049
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:55,880
My brother's also a rabbi and he
actually just translating the 

1050
00:51:56,400 --> 00:52:01,120
he's publishing coming out a 
couple of weeks, the grandson of

1051
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:07,160
of the Rambam, Nagid, Davida, 
Nagid, Peruchon and Pircavot. 

1052
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:10,000
But he told me that once he gave
Adela Shah and he quoted 

1053
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:13,880
antinones not maybe I forgot who
it was. 

1054
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:18,400
He quoted some some philosopher 
and the the crowd, one rabbi 

1055
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:21,440
there like yelled at him and 
told him to sit down and he went

1056
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:25,240
nuts at him because of that. 
So it there, it's really like 

1057
00:52:25,240 --> 00:52:27,600
the bubbles getting. 
Really, really, you know, I 

1058
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:29,760
don't know. 
Attention is really there. 

1059
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:30,800
It's it's cabal. 
It's. 

1060
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:35,040
Sad intention's there and. 
Because, you know, they only 

1061
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:39,720
knew that, like picquet a vote 
is basically based on on 

1062
00:52:39,720 --> 00:52:42,440
stoicism, the Greek Stoicism. 
Marcus Aurelius. 

1063
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:45,320
Epictetus, you know this is this
is the. 

1064
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:46,840
Wisdom. 
Crazy. 

1065
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:49,080
So many similarities. 
Like the some lines are the 

1066
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:51,640
exact dire quotes. 
You know, exactly quotes. 

1067
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:54,240
There's this idea. 
That, like Judaism can't look. 

1068
00:52:54,240 --> 00:52:55,880
That's the whole beauty of of 
Torah. 

1069
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:59,720
Is that the hazard? 
They they would see wisdom of 

1070
00:52:59,720 --> 00:53:02,440
the world and they would they 
would bring it into Judaism. 

1071
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:04,600
Kind of like show that it's 
compatible. 

1072
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:07,000
You know, like when there's 
wisdom, wisdom is wisdom. 

1073
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:08,160
Doesn't matter what source it 
comes. 

1074
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:09,960
From objective. 
Yes, not. 

1075
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:14,600
And that's people, like they 
say, like, oh, the Talmud is 

1076
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:17,640
filled with astrology, It's 
filled with, you know, 

1077
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:19,120
demonology, all these different 
things. 

1078
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:22,400
So like, you know, in the 
Rambam, they attack the Rambam 

1079
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:24,960
all the time. 
So there's an opposite way to 

1080
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:26,600
look at it. 
Like if you know the history 

1081
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:29,520
back then, astrology, back then,
demonology, these were like, 

1082
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,400
these were like these were the 
top, you know, society. 

1083
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,240
If you want to be a cultured 
person, a sophisticated person, 

1084
00:53:36,240 --> 00:53:39,040
this is what you had to believe.
So to say that, you know, oh, 

1085
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:41,680
how couldn't, how could they 
believe in these things if it 

1086
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,240
was wrong that that's, that was 
a science of their time. 

1087
00:53:44,240 --> 00:53:45,840
Again, in the this was a 
Halachala machine. 

1088
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:47,720
I don't believe in these things,
no. 

1089
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,840
But even Ramban, when he 
believed in, you know, 

1090
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:53,800
necromancy, he says the science 
of necromancy, meaning he 

1091
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:58,280
understood it as part of like 
the the laws of law of the laws 

1092
00:53:58,280 --> 00:53:58,640
of. 
Nature. 

1093
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:01,840
Well, he says more than that, He
he clearly doesn't call it 

1094
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:05,480
Missouri, because he actually 
says that he went and tried to 

1095
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:08,520
discover for himself whether 
it's true and he saw it with his

1096
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:12,520
own eyes, meaning he performed 
what in his mind was a 

1097
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:17,960
scientific, you know, procedure 
in his mind to to to realize the

1098
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:20,600
truth of it or not. 
He did not say, like I received 

1099
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:23,240
from my, you know, my rabbi or 
this or that. 

1100
00:54:23,240 --> 00:54:25,280
That was not the the Ramban's 
words. 

1101
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:27,760
He says that it appears to Huma 
somewhere, I don't remember 

1102
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:31,840
where, but that's what he said. 
So he he actually verified for 

1103
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:35,560
himself through his whatever 
means he he felt, you know 

1104
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:38,280
compelled him and but he 
verified for himself so. 

1105
00:54:38,720 --> 00:54:41,280
You find. 
The men as well. 

1106
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:42,240
Oh, I didn't know about that 
one. 

1107
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:43,760
Yeah, the men as well. 
He tried. 

1108
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:47,520
He, he tries to prove certain, 
you know, things, this heebie, 

1109
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:52,040
jeebie stuff, let's say based 
off certain science realities 

1110
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:54,200
that, you know, he said that the
whole world accepts during his 

1111
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:56,640
time certain things that can't 
be explained by nature. 

1112
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:58,640
And nowadays, you know, we can 
really explain a lot of it, you 

1113
00:54:58,680 --> 00:54:59,800
know? 
Yeah, so. 

1114
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:04,320
Yeah, like someone you know 200 
years ago would would you know, 

1115
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:07,560
they would think he's having a 
exorcism, but really it's. 

1116
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:09,320
Just a. 
He's just having an epileptic 

1117
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:13,040
seizure, you know, throwing holy
water on him, you know, But 

1118
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:16,600
today there's medication. 
So there's, you know, it's just 

1119
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:20,480
how do we deal with there's, 
there's discoveries that we make

1120
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:23,680
over time and the rabbis are 
always trying to give an 

1121
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:25,640
explanation, a scientific 
explanation for those things. 

1122
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:28,040
Yeah, you know, so we can't 
fault them for that. 

1123
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:30,920
That's absolutely. 
And there's two ways of like 

1124
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:32,840
looking at there's another 
approach is that Hakamim? 

1125
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:36,600
I mean the Robin himself in in a
Tisha about astrology. 

1126
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:39,720
He explains that it was like a 
it was a small minor opinion of 

1127
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:44,720
that believed in astrology, but 
the Rabim Rov didn't believe in 

1128
00:55:44,720 --> 00:55:46,000
it. 
That's one approach. 

1129
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:50,280
Another approach is that is that
the Hakami themselves, they 

1130
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:52,920
didn't believe in these things, 
but they allowed certain things 

1131
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:54,480
like within the in the cipher as
well. 

1132
00:55:54,720 --> 00:55:57,960
Like why did they allow certain,
let's say, amulets to be used, 

1133
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:00,880
carried on Shabbat, etcetera? 
The conceited ideas. 

1134
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:03,840
People believe in it, so they 
allowed certain they also. 

1135
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:08,560
Have the trade, trade approach 
or the trade approach, Yeah they

1136
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:13,400
sort of they they find it like 
almost like how would you. 

1137
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:15,400
Yeah, they're using, for 
example, they'll see like 

1138
00:56:15,720 --> 00:56:18,520
shedim, right? 
And they'll say that they didn't

1139
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:22,440
really believe in demons, but 
they were appropriating these 

1140
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:26,120
ideas from their culture because
it was a commonly understood 

1141
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:29,480
kind of idea. 
And really, they're just using 

1142
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:34,480
it to kind of give over ideas. 
It's or it's scientific science 

1143
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:36,040
of the. 
Time also that I think they also

1144
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:37,600
hold that there's certain 
sarcasm involved. 

1145
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:39,520
Yes, yes. 
I think that's what it was. 

1146
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:42,680
There's a sarcasm involved, like
the one with the demons by the 

1147
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:44,320
mountain and night. 
What was? 

1148
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:47,240
It well, there's always, every 
time demons are showing up, 

1149
00:56:47,240 --> 00:56:49,240
there was an isolation. 
Correct, yes. 

1150
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:52,440
So there's. 
So he says it's that's where 

1151
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:54,520
that's your imagination. 
It's teaching us about, you 

1152
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:56,480
know, don't let your imagination
run wild. 

1153
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:58,800
Because what happens is that 
that's the imagination is the 

1154
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:01,200
seed of idolatry. 
So if you put yourself in 

1155
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:03,760
situations where you're in an 
abandoned building or you're 

1156
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,000
alone at night and you're, 
you're gonna start, Yeah. 

1157
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:07,920
If you're isolated on a 
mountain, on a island somewhere,

1158
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:10,440
you're gonna start potentially 
talking to yourself or hearing 

1159
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:12,440
voices in your head. 
So you kind of have to. 

1160
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:14,160
Like it's another approach, it's
another approach. 

1161
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:16,760
It's another approach. 
But there's many approaches, 

1162
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:18,000
yeah. 
Yeah. 

1163
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:20,280
One one thing that's very 
important that I want to just 

1164
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:22,600
add in is that you know 
sometimes when you get to this 

1165
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:25,520
more rational approach 
unfortunately they your your 

1166
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:28,680
religious level kind of, you 
know that inspiration that that 

1167
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:32,360
spark and you kind of can can go
down and and then also your 

1168
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:36,760
halachic following and your 
observance just also kind of 

1169
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:38,560
goes down. 
So something about the Rabbin 

1170
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:42,640
Rabbana Rambam that is just for 
me just such a Jehizuk and why I

1171
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:47,960
I love him so much is that he 
was like Hasid, let's say he was

1172
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:50,120
you know doing hit body dude. 
He talked about hit body dude 

1173
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:53,000
before anybody, just going in 
the middle of the nowhere and 

1174
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:56,640
praying and leaving everybody 
else and and and still at the 

1175
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:59,280
same time with such religious 
devotion. 

1176
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:01,640
And the Rama as well, you know 
he would go to the mikveh every 

1177
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:03,280
time he had to carry. 
He talked about it in his 

1178
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:05,320
teshuva. 
You know they were he was a 

1179
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:08,600
Hasid as well in halacha very 
pious medakdek and everything 

1180
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:13,880
but at the same time they were 
they would follow halaja without

1181
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:17,400
you know the I'm sure you guys 
are aware that they don't have 

1182
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:19,760
all the culotte that let's say 
the Valitos of what come up with

1183
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:23,600
you know based off oh Battel 
battel tan Battel halaja you 

1184
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:25,720
know Battel gazera. 
And they didn't they didn't have

1185
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:27,920
that concept. 
You know there's the culotte you

1186
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:30,200
find in others in other school 
of thoughts. 

1187
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:42,040
But Rambam rabim a so maybe 
perhaps we're a lot to dance 

1188
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:45,360
like the the Rama brings down. 
Let's say no, the Rama doesn't 

1189
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:46,320
matter. 
That's a gizzard. 

1190
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:47,800
Ah that's the law. 
We have to follow it. 

1191
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:51,280
There's 100% commitment to a la 
ha at the same time super 

1192
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:54,040
spiritual as well like Rabin 
Rahman and Rama at the same 

1193
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:56,480
time. 
So rational, so rational. 

1194
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:58,960
Top of the size. 
Top doctors in the world the. 

1195
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:02,840
Idea of of not being spiritual 
is so wrong, 'cause I feel more 

1196
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:05,440
since I became. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1197
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:08,800
Since we became like we used to 
study Kabbalahasi, dude. 

1198
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:11,840
Since we became rational quote 
UN quote. 

1199
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:15,880
I hate to use the term but 
there's we've been so inspired 

1200
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:19,400
because when you get that flash 
of like wisdom and like that aha

1201
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:24,840
moment because it's not it's not
a world of abstraction like the 

1202
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:27,800
you know like the more mystical 
kind of streams. 

1203
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:30,880
It's a it's a world of of 
understanding. 

1204
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:33,120
Everything builds on it's on the
other thing, right. 

1205
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:39,000
It's like a it's an amazing 
system of of knowledge that we 

1206
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:41,840
never even knew existed. 
And to me, it's the most 

1207
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:43,080
inspirational thing. 
We don't. 

1208
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:44,600
We don't lose that inspiration. 
I'll tell you. 

1209
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:47,320
I'll tell you something when 
someone who is. 

1210
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:50,640
Look, I myself, I admit it all 
the time. 

1211
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:54,880
I studied Kabbalah and hasidut 
for a long time, mainly Hasidut,

1212
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:57,560
not so much Kabbalah. 
I wasn't very big into like 

1213
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,400
Kabbalah, Kabbalah, I was more 
into hasidut and inspiration and

1214
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:02,560
stuff like that. 
Kabbalah also, but I'm saying 

1215
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:04,280
like more. 
My focus was more on that. 

1216
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:06,920
From that end, there's a certain
addiction that. 

1217
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:11,000
That develops over time, where 
you get a little bit addicted to

1218
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:14,400
a certain way of thinking, of 
way of getting inspired. 

1219
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:20,120
You need to adjust your mindset.
That is a little bit difficult 

1220
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:22,600
in the beginning. 
You have to adjust your mind. 

1221
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:23,760
You have to adjust the way you 
see things. 

1222
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:25,640
You have to adjust the way you 
approach things. 

1223
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:30,200
But if a person is willing to 
take that leap, you know, 

1224
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:32,120
because a lot of people are 
scared, because a lot of people 

1225
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:35,680
are happy with their inspiration
and with their abstractions and 

1226
01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:37,000
with their, you know, 
imaginative. 

1227
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:39,960
You know what I'm saying, right?
People are happy with that 

1228
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:42,680
because it it does feel good and
it feels like you're getting 

1229
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:45,640
close to God in your own 
imagination or whatever. 

1230
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:51,120
But if a person can can pass 
that, leap that and adjust their

1231
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:53,880
mind frame on the other side, 
there's just as much 

1232
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:56,360
inspiration. 
It's just learning how to get in

1233
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:59,000
in a different way. 
You have to learn how to get in 

1234
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:01,080
a different way. 
It takes, it's an adjustment, 

1235
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:03,960
but it's it's available. 
You just have to take the leap 

1236
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:04,560
in a way. 
Absolutely. 

1237
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:08,240
And it's important that we, you 
know I think this is a 

1238
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:12,360
especially in the safari world 
you know most of the our our 

1239
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:14,520
parents grandparents and 
everything they weren't part of 

1240
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:16,520
this as you can. 
I don't like to use the term as 

1241
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:20,040
well rational world as well. 
But now this generation there 

1242
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:22,120
are a lot of people that are 
becoming like this. 

1243
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:24,040
You see in London the Habura 
started. 

1244
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:26,620
These are the last smarty guys 
that are you know all like 

1245
01:01:26,620 --> 01:01:29,880
minded people like us. 
So we're kind of like a new into

1246
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:33,600
this and it's important for us 
to make communities get together

1247
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:37,560
kind of you know help structure 
and help help each other out in 

1248
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:41,920
this path of being committed 
Halakhi Jews 100% creating Tami 

1249
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:45,240
de ha hamim writing sfarim 
writing tissue world writing 

1250
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:48,520
everything and and and at the 
same time spiritual and we have 

1251
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:50,840
to we have to you know we have 
to work with each other. 

1252
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:51,440
We all have to. 
Help. 

1253
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:52,800
We need to build. 
We need to. 

1254
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:54,480
Build. 
And we also need to, you know, 

1255
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:56,880
reach out and have conversations
with people outside of our 

1256
01:01:56,880 --> 01:02:00,680
bubble because it's very, you 
know, like that's one thing we 

1257
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:03,200
do and maybe we get criticism 
from it, from like the purists. 

1258
01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:07,720
But the truth is we we want this
idea, these ideas to spread. 

1259
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:10,360
We want it to be, you know, it's
a revive. 

1260
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:14,000
There's a real need and a real 
desire for people right now to 

1261
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:17,000
to find something that's 
rationally based. 

1262
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:19,680
Everybody craves it. 
We live in like we live in the 

1263
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:23,960
age of skepticism and reason and
and and the age of information. 

1264
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:27,720
People desire this. 
They just don't know that it 

1265
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:30,240
exists. 
So I think that you being part 

1266
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:32,840
of this is really like, you're a
pioneer. 

1267
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:34,680
What you're doing right now is 
unbelievable. 

1268
01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:39,000
And we want we want to connect 
with people like you to, you 

1269
01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:42,000
know, get people excited again 
and to understand that there's 

1270
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:44,880
there's revolution happening in 
Torah. 

1271
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:47,800
So we want to thank you for 
coming on. 

1272
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:50,280
And if you can quickly plug your
book again and just tell 

1273
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:53,240
everybody where they could find 
it, that would be great. 

1274
01:02:53,560 --> 01:02:57,240
So much thank you for having me 
the book, see if I have one 

1275
01:02:57,240 --> 01:03:00,400
here. 
Yes, understanding Hazan, it is 

1276
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:04,000
available on the on Amazon only 
or you can actually go to dot 

1277
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:09,840
dot press DAAT dot PRESS and we 
have the links there for the 

1278
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:12,880
safer as well we. 
Can add, yeah, we're going to 

1279
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:13,560
add a link. 
Add a link. 

1280
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:14,920
Description for that press for 
anyone. 

1281
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:17,560
So really, we, we want to thank 
you so much. 

1282
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:20,040
It was a great conversation. 
We're happy to get to know you 

1283
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:22,080
and we hope to do this again. 
Amen. 

1284
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:24,400
Chavoto, thank you guys for the 
opportunity. 

1285
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:26,800
All the best, really appreciate 
it. 

1286
01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:36,400
Thank you. 
Hey guys, thanks so much for 

1287
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:38,720
tuning into the Judas and 
Demystified podcast. 

1288
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:41,760
We really appreciate all your 
support and your feedback. 

1289
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:45,840
If you wanna help us grow the 
podcast, keep spreading the 

1290
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:48,320
word. 
Share with your friends, family,

1291
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:49,880
or whoever you think would be 
interested. 

1292
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:54,920
We also opened a Patreon so you 
can become a patron, contribute 

1293
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:57,720
any small amount you'd like, 
which would really help us grow 

1294
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:00,640
the show. 
Our Patreon is 

1295
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:07,200
www.patreon.com/judaism. 
Pretty easy to remember. 

1296
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:10,720
Thank you again and we hope to 
keep putting out great shows for

1297
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:21,720
you guys. 
Before we go, we want to thank 

1298
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:26,160
our Patreon supporters by name. 
Those are the supporters that 

1299
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:29,400
are helping make this show 
happen because frankly Benci and

1300
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:32,880
I are full time workers who 
don't really have so much time 

1301
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:36,120
on our hands because we have 
families, we have kids and it's 

1302
01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:40,040
just a passion project that got 
way bigger than we expected. 

1303
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:43,960
So we're dedicating more time to
this and obviously our 

1304
01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:46,520
production value up until this 
point hasn't been great 

1305
01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:50,960
considering that we film this in
Benci's basement using a green 

1306
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:54,760
screen and a crappy little 
microphone and not such great 

1307
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:57,720
equipment to be honest, I'm sure
you all realize that. 

1308
01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:03,240
So we are hoping to up our 
quality and get better equipment

1309
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:07,240
and part of that process is 
going to be due to you guys, the

1310
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:11,160
listeners and supporters. 
If you go to our Patreon page, 

1311
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:16,160
patreon.com/judaism, you will 
see all the different tiers of 

1312
01:05:16,160 --> 01:05:18,160
ways you can help us out. 
So first of all, we want to 

1313
01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:22,600
thank our super patron Jordan 
Carmeli, our platinum patron 

1314
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:27,320
Craig Gordon, our Gold patrons 
David Haye, Abram, Khayev, Laser

1315
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:32,800
Cohen, Travis Kruger, Vasily 
Volkov, Silver patrons, Ellen 

1316
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:37,240
Fleischer, Daniel Maximov, Rabbi
Penny Rosenthal, and Jeffrey 

1317
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:39,600
Wasserman. 
Thank you all for supporting the

1318
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:42,400
show and we hope you guys enjoy.