Welcome to Judaism Demystified, a podcast for the perplexed.
We are joined by Rep Yitzhak Berdugo.
Rep Berdugo was born and raised in South Florida.
He studied at Yeshivat Beth Moshe Khayim Talmudic University
in Miami Beach and received his samikha under the auspices of
its Roshi Shiva of A Yochenan, Moshe Zweig, while further
studying in New York. Ever Berdugo received his Yoray
Yoray from Rabbi Eliahu Ben Khayim Roshi Shiva and Abit Dean
of Badas Mukhor Haim, Queens, NY followed by Kabbalah and Chihita
and in long checking following the in the path of the
illustrious Rabanim of the Berdugo family.
Rabbi Berdugo has written much on Halakha and has authored his
own response of covering a variety of topics with great
admiration for the Hakamim of Sfarad.
Rabbi Berdugo has a passion in the translation and promulgation
of their works. Currently residing in Miami
Beach, FL. Robert Verdugo served as the
Roche Kolel of the Bal Harbour Kolel and is pursuing his
Dianute qualification through the Eretzkremda Institute of
Jerusalem and Montefiore Endowment.
Without further ado, Rob Verdugo.
Thank you for joining the Judaism Demystified podcast.
Thank you Robert Verdugo for coming on.
We've been waiting for this for a long time and we want to hear
a little bit more about yourself, your background, your
education and your most recent project, your book,
Understanding Hazel. So take it away.
Thank you so much. Thank you for the honor and
privilege to be here with you guys.
Keep up the good work what you guys are doing.
Definitely much needed. So I'm taking it away from the
beginning, just about the book or about my.
Yeah, learn about your background before I guess.
No. Background OK, sure, no problem.
So I'm born and raised here in South Florida, Miami Beach.
Then we moved to when I was younger, around 5-6 years old.
We moved to a place called Weston near Sawgrass Mall.
Big mall there. And then from there we went to
Parkland, actually. Unfortunately people know it
from the shooting there. Parkland, tons of the Jews
there. I don't know, I don't know most,
but even in the school where they unfortunately that shooting
was, it was filled with Jews, maybe 40% Jewish.
My cousins were actually there during the shooting, but we
were. I went to a private school,
private non Jewish school, secular school.
But again also most of the kids were Jewish.
A lot of even people Kohanim, last name Kohan and everything,
but they were gohim as well. But I had a traditional
upbringing from my father's side.
He came straight from Tangier, Morocco, when he was around 2423
or 24 years old. And he also came from the the
Berdugo families, like a rabbinical family.
So he had a lot of very strong tradition traditions, but he
came here wanting to be a movie star.
Very interesting path, different path than his his ancestors had.
But did it work out? For him or.
No, he actually was. My father was on Miami Vice.
The show, a couple episodes. He's like the guy in the
background saying, Oh my God, you had a couple words there and
a few episodes. Pretty funny.
So. But he married.
My mother was Ashkenazi Jew from you know she's comes from a
chant of all different from Hungary, Poland, Russia,
everything you could think of. But they're already like 4
generations secular here in in America.
So it was very interesting. Two sides of of the the the
spectrum of the Sephardic traditional and very secular
Ashkenazi. But my dad, you know, he really
tried to raise this more traditional.
Our bar mitzvah was an Orthodox even though like we would go
maybe every now and then to like a conservative reform show.
But my dad was very like no, we have to go Orthodox.
And the only Orthodox we had it was Habad.
And in in Khabbad we, you know we brought Tifili and my father
used to go and make sure you know every morning after my bar
mitzvah learned that, put on tifili and he made our house
crochet as well even though sometimes we would sneak in, you
know things that we shouldn't have been sneaking in But
definitely a traditional upbringing And it was also very
just funny seeing the different sides of my mom's family.
Unfortunately even some of them married to let's say non Jews
and and and my father's family which a lot of them maintain the
traditions and even beneath Torah are very religious.
So very 2 two different worlds clashing in in my house but
towards I would say like 15/16/17.
Getting more into it I was I was very into music.
I actually went to every summer. I would go to Berkeley College
of Music in Boston. I got a full scholarship to go
there, to study there. But instead of that I during
that time I was getting more and more into Torah.
There's not any crazy particular story.
I don't went to RSMF for a little bit and there you hear
stories like, yeah, after I killed my teacher and went to
prison for five years, I I saw. Math is like a haven for for
interesting stories. Yeah, yeah.
I was like the only one that didn't have that.
I actually, I I met somebody in North MF that was supposed to
sign a contract as an offensive lineman for the Green Bay
Packers. And.
Came to study in North MF for like one month just because like
he wanted to like kind of look a little bit nose Jewish roots
before he goes off to the NFL world and he like quit the whole
thing and you know like changes a lot.
Everyone has these stories all the time, so.
Yeah, yeah, I got crazy stories. So from there yeah.
So very heavily involved in music.
I had bands, I was in bands we toured and we're gonna get.
Actually I even got they wanted me to join some some rock band,
whatever, but I didn't end up joining it.
But so by the same time I was getting definitely into more
into religion actually it happened to because my brother
was getting his bar mitzvah and and we had a habad, a rabbi that
would drive like an hour away to come and tutor my brother.
And then during that time as well I I kind of it's it's
pretty funny when you talked about that then you were at your
Choquette. But at that time you know I'm on
the I guess my generation was like the first real generation
to like use the Internet like crazy and just explore it.
Like even in school my my high school or my middle school was
like the first school to start using like laptops in class.
So like we were like the Dordea the generation of knowledge and
just like something like crazy. And randomly I found out about I
I used the PETA. PETA, PETA.
PETA, PETA, right. PETA, the animal you know
organization for to to to be vegan etcetera.
And I saw some videos about Chehita and not sorry not
Chehita about how they kill animals and then the I chose
chose to be vegetarian. I'm like, you know, I'm not
gonna eat meat. But it didn't last so long
because we like to. We like to meet a lot.
Then I show my brother as well. I forced him to watch it as
well, and we didn't. We're like, OK, no more meat.
We thought, you know, meat grows on trees or something.
We didn't know that it actually came from animals.
And then from then I couldn't keep it.
And my friend, he's like, oh, kosher.
The chiquita is much more, you know, humane, etcetera.
And don't worry, you know, you can eat meat now.
And I'm like, oh great, my dad always, you know, tries to
enforce us to be kosher, you know, Anyways, we have it, OK,
I'm going to keep kosher. And from there, with the rabbi
coming and teaching my brother for his bar mitzvah lesson
instead of learning for his bar mitzvah, we started just talking
about this and that and random things.
And then my mom actually didn't like it so much.
She thought she was he was radicalizing us a little bit.
So she like told us, Rabbi, you can't come back anymore.
But because of this, the the, the computer, the Internet, I
had access to everything. There was websites,
askmoses.com, I don't know if they even had that anymore.
They had all these different websites, Wikipedia with all the
history of everything. So we had knowledge.
We had you know the the access to to keep on learning and it
just kept on growing and growing until you know I started wearing
a a coupi in school probably the only guy wearing a coupi in
school. And then as I continue to learn
instead of going to even when I went to Boston in this summer as
I was performing with a keep on with my CC Don.
I remember I invited the Khabar Rabi to come to my concert and
instead of I didn't know about the Lahav Kalisha and I told him
to come but the singer from my band was a was a woman singing
and and he's like well I can't come I can't listen to what is
this what are you inviting me I didn't know that but I already
was very inspired I don't know why I'm going through the whole
story of my history but it it actually leads to the book of
understanding Hazel so we'll get there somehow.
I hope you guys don't mind if if if it's Oh no please do so so
from there I went to a TCLI. It was my first time ever going
to Israel was to to was going to study in yeshiva.
I never went there before. It's very different reality for
me going to Israel especially in in my in the program.
I went to dare horse. I heard it was for Baltisha but
it seemed like my year and maybe maybe years before it as well
they had a lot of just people coming from more modern orthodox
schools. So it wasn't I wasn't year.
It was like that I. Also went to Dare Horse, as we
mentioned beforehand. There was a mix.
There were some people I felt, that came there and they were
already kind of established. Then you had people that came
there, like, you know, absolutely nothing.
It was like, it was like you said, like it's a troll into the
different types of people. Right, So that was I.
Really loved it. Yeah.
You loved it. Yeah.
So when I was there, I it was like a reality shock to me
because I was the only I went there already, like black and
white. I had pale a little behind my
ear as well, ready to stag. But then like a lot of guys,
like I met them on the plane, I went on the group flight and it
was a shock reality to me. Like these are people that,
like, they didn't really want to be so religious.
A lot of the people, of course there were a few that did, but a
lot of people weren't so into it.
I remember the the the first time we go there, we had the
rabbi sis is down, you're not allowed to go to Ben Yuda.
OK, so And then we all go to the dorms and I see everybody like
putting hair gel and getting dressed.
I'm like, where you guys going, Ben Yuda?
I'm like, what I just said we can't go to Ben Yuda.
So whatever. It was a little shocking for me.
I had my ups and downs there, but Marukashem, towards the
middle of the year, I, you know, a lot of people start growing
getting more into it. So I getting more into it as
well. The first time learning Gemara.
I never learned Gemara before, but it was definitely in the end
a very positive experience. I stayed.
I went there again for Shana Bet but for only half the year.
And then my father also pressuring that like you have to
come back. You have to come back.
You have to start university. But I'm like you know I want to
continue learning and I knew of a place that there's a yeshiva
in Miami called the Talmudic university rabbi's wife yeshiva.
So I'm like dad I think I just want to study there instead of
going to university. I was already accepted to why
you also like I want to especially with the hash kafi in
in or somewhere they they they they prefer not to go to Yu.
They prefer you know go to some other you stay there or more
other yeshiva Shiva's. So Robert Wise is a classic.
I don't know, it's like a Neri Sorrell Breakoff type of style.
So I studied there. I was there for 3-4 years, just
pure learning growing more and more.
But as I, when I was there in yeshiva there quick funny story
about this Shahita just to go back and sorry my mind works in
crazy ways but I found out later that that video from PETA who
was actually kosher Shahita that I saw.
Oh really. Yeah.
So as it I'm also a Shahed certified for for Dakot and
Agasot as well and I did a few of them as well and Shahida is I
don't I wouldn't say I know a lot of cure rabbis say it's so
humane. This is not but I don't think
they were Shahadi members. Shahida is probably it's
probably not the most humane. You know for example you want a
quail they just cut off the head that's how going to do it.
And us we have to you know find the two the kind of edition
there and then and cut it and you see the animal dying or a
duck you know it takes a couple minutes for it to die.
Is it the most humane? I don't think so but it's that's
the covenant we have with Hashem we so we do it like that but.
Yeah, I wanna give you a quick shout out to our mutual friend
about Adam Aziz. So he's he's a listener of the
show, so just. Want to say really beautiful.
Beautiful. Yeah.
He's a good friend of mine as
well. I have all this fadim as well.
And he does a Oh, no, sorry. Adam Aziz.
You're saying I saw Aziz. You're saying Adam Aziz?
He's also yeah. Also also also friend yeah.
Beautiful. Yeah.
Adam Aziz, as well as a good friend of mine.
He was. He came the year after I was
there. But that was Shana Betty Shana
Alice and just such fan and and the amazing person growing like
crazy and always, I'm sure. So yeah.
So that was just The funny thing about the Shahita thing that
there was like what kind of got me into the kosher etcetera was
actually completely the opposite in reality.
But OK, it turned out to become. I turned out to be a show hit as
well. For fun, we had a Codell here in
Bal Harbour and we learned for a Woman's month.
We were teaching them Shakita, so they all became certified
Shohatim there. So where was I last?
I don't. Actually understand I don't know
if you're getting to this, but how you found your quote UN
quote dera? He's gonna get there, I think,
right. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so in in the Ishiva you know
the in in in the most of the Shivish worlds like the Rambam
is like the you know, like the the final thing, the Shir Khali
you know every week let's say you have you're learning Sugiya
and then the Roshiba gives the Shir Khali the all-encompassing
shear. On on all the Sugiyati they give
out a whole board of all the Mare Mekomot and then you get
the that you hear the sheer for an hour or the sheer Khali just
you know put the to mix Shalom with all the different
contradictions and and bring it home.
Fine tuning, yeah. The.
Fine tuning of the Serbia. Fine tuning of the Serbia,
exactly. So most of the times it's on the
Rambam. And especially the Rambam, you
know, he's very he doesn't bring the Mekorot.
So Rabbis like to you know push in something into the Rambam.
So I was just always shocked and like is this really what the
Rambam meant? This is what the Rambam meant in
the Subiyao and this and and I said I'm like, I I want to read
the Rambam more and for some reason I always had this
aspiration of the Rambam, this respect from and disrespect to
the Rambam. He was a doctor.
He was a philosopher. And so my uncle as well, who's
a, he was a famous doctor in in in Spain, my father's brother,
he was always talking to me about the Rambam and just and
all just so I had this like affinity for the Rambam.
But when I read the Rambam as well and then also just reading
about probably online as well, the Misha Torah, what he did,
what he accomplished more than you know, pretty much any other
who shown seemingly, you know, just the work of the the, the
the Misha Torah. And then of course you see in
the Yeshivish world as well they're using the Rambam like,
you know this is the safer the best safer in the world,
etcetera. This is #1 safer.
So I just said I'm like, you know what I'm going to Start
learning the Rambam. So like in yeshiva I just made a
seder learning the ramen from the beginning to the end.
And I started doing Hazara one time I was doing like 5 proc in
a day Bah Bah, Bah, as much as I could do.
I still give actually right before this I just finished we
do a share every night, a perk of the Rambam every night.
So they're starting learning the ramen.
I'm bringing reading his Hagdamma as well that he's like
saying like you only need this effort to understand the the
laha to know the torch about PE Of course he's not saying people
misunderstand and they think like you're saying you could
throw away all the others fighting.
No, you're just saying if you want to know the what you need
to know as a halachic Jew, all you need is my sefer and that's
it. So then I would be like, I don't
understand. And he says he writes it like
even, you know, children, women, everybody can understand my
sefer. So that I'm like, then I go to
Sheer and I hear, you know, rabbis giving different
shooting. And we have guest speakers
coming into the words of the Rambam.
And I'll be like, but I don't think this is what the Roman
meant. This is definitely not his
covenant. So I started arguing, you know,
and then I got, you know, looking online as well.
I think I was like the only guy in my Shiva that had a
smartphone in the first time, like, smartphones came out.
And I had a smartphone there. And I was doing it like in the
dorms, you know, checking out a lot of stuff and and and like
reading about the different, you know, I started learning about
the Yemenite Misura. RAF Kappa has a rough coffee.
And I got to get into this. I even went when I went to
Israel again, I bought his whole set.
He has like 24 or something, 25 volumes probably I'm the only
one here in Florida that has the entire set or even, I don't
know, maybe there's one other rabbi you could think of but the
entire set of the Ravkappa. So I started, you know, taking
that, bringing it to the Shiva and then comparing it like how
let's say a rabbi. The rabbi is learning the
Sugiya. And the way I'm, you know,
Ravkappa is learning the Sugiya. And many times I would be like,
whoa, the Ramam Ravkappa brings down the Ramam.
Explain this in a tishuva that he wrote exactly how he learned
it, you know? Most of the time, by my
experience, most of the time Roufkafic will will point
towards something in the parish of Michnaiot to elucidate.
Which is interesting because in Yeshiva I've never once heard
parish of Michna of the Rambam being used in any sort of
fashion ever. You know what I mean?
It's always based on the Nosikalem.
But you know, when you learn the Roufkafic's work on the on
Michnatura, you start to realize that the Nosikalem happened to
never have also learned the parish machine of the Ramam,
which led to a lot of the meat, papillae and all that stuff.
So it's interesting. Exactly right.
Yeah, that's true. They sometimes bring parish
machine if like you know, the cast of Michel brings it down or
somebody else brought it down, but like all the tissue votes
like barely ever sometimes also they're probably the same as
Parish Machel, but like the tissue vote no, not so much as
well. So seeing that and then
sometimes as well, you know, Rafkafa would just answer very
easily. OK, that's the Ron Girsa and the
Rambam. Here's the Yamanite or
manuscripts And that completely, you know, destroys the entire
people that that people would build on it or on top of it.
Oh, there the there's a different gear set in the the
the Gimbara of the Rambam look at the rabbi and Gimmara and had
a different gear style. And that's why there's no much
lucky. You don't have to make a whole
people on it. So, like, that was like my
awakening to like, whoa, there's a whole nother world.
And then from that approach, you know, I started seeing like
another approach that people were, that a lot of people hold
is that the Roman himself doesn't matter what he intended.
Because once I'm sure you guys heard this before and people can
relate that people say that once the Roman wrote something down,
it was written with Ruach Hakodesh and therefore that
became, you know, the sefer. And we can now nip up to
whatever you want into that sefer.
So I was like, that's really hard to really, you know,
understand that Then like on top of it, wait a second, there's
multiple Girsa odds. My daughter just woke up and I
feel like that it's OK. So I was saying that, you know,
the approach that people were saying that everything that
wrote with was Ruha Kodesh. So the question was that I was
asking is like, but which Girsa? Because the Rambam we know 100%
that he will retract from his many times in Pirish Krishnaiot
he kept on retracting from what he wrote previously.
You know, he finished it when he was 30, something years old and
throughout he was. Like 20, right?
He started when he was like 20. Yeah, he was. 20 He added it
three times or something. Yeah, so many.
Like we don't even know because it just whatever kids they are,
we can find and he kept adding it.
Then you're adding it and changing based off new.
You know, because Halaqa evolves and a person.
Hazard boy. Throughout the Gemara people the
rabbis are retracting from what they said.
So why? Why should the Ramba be
different? And even in the Girsalt and the
Rambam we have different of his own Kibiya, we have different
Girsalt. And pretty much many times
because he just retracted from what he said in the Ravkopa
action is Hagdama. He says that the Yamanites would
send different scholar to maybe we should look him every year to
go and and and meet the Rambam and see get the latest updates
on, you know, on the different new updates that he did the
Tikkunin that he did on the the Rambam.
So my question was like, which one is the one that's, you know,
written with Ruha Kodesh? Then I remember reading in the
Rambam himself and mournivukine. It's like the mahi writes, it's
so important that when you read a work, you have to try to
understand the intent of the author.
You know he is stressing that and then you know, the way we're
reading it is not like that. So this is my kind of like, you
know, like, you know, I'm like, whoa, this is a very different
style than what's being taught out there and how to read the
Rambam. And I just see that people read
the Rambam. Oh yeah, somebody just told me
this joke. My money.
Why is it called Maimonides? Maimonides.
You heard that one before? Yeah, of course it comes up a
lot of our podcast. Doesn't it?
Oh, it's different. I just read it like last week in
Maimonides. People are reading.
With the party man late to the party.
Not late to the party. OK, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's like, I'm sure you guys know that famous joke when what
was the the smarty guy who goes up to or the Rama music?
Shamayim. You know, that joke.
Oh, no. Oh, OK.
So I tried to say I'm sure there's like 1000 different
variations of the story. But one time I think it was the
IT was the Briska Rav and the Rambam with Shamayim.
And they're learning a Rambam and the Rambam learns it like
that. And the Briska Rav says you
don't know how to learn it. Yeah, Swarti, you know you don't
know how to learn a Rambam. Here is Swarti.
I didn't say it properly. There's sometimes a joke like
that you don't know how to learn the Rambam.
But. And The funny thing is like now
the more I'm reading like it's tissue.
What like for example, you read the you just read the the the
the tissue what did the ramen. The limit was very simple Pashu.
It's very how you understand the Sugiya is not no, no people they
didn't have that. It was very simple the shot
structure. Very structured.
Very structured, claudine and your language.
Also. Clarity was was extremely
important for this very, very important clarity, which is
interesting because today it's like clarity is looked down upon
to some extent like it's all about being able to you know.
All the all the smart, if you show me more, very much into
grammar. Grammar was so important to.
That grammar, clarity, structure, Dick Duke,
everything. Proper results, everything.
Yeah. Absolutely, yeah.
And just as I see like you know how the people are learning
their rhythm, where however they want, they're making their money
on monities. Even today.
I was in the bit Knesset today and somebody they they open up
the Ramba. I mean he'll quote me lahim
about how the Ramam says he brings down from the Gamar and
Kitu bot that somebody who lives in El Srel is like all his
Averota mohel and somebody who's also buried in El Sisel.
All his Averota are are gone. So he's telling me like, yeah,
you know you can be the biggest Russia all your life as long as
you're buried in El Srel. You're gonna be good to go.
I'm like, no, you that's not what the Roma meant.
I think they can't be the ROM. You have to know that if you, if
you know the Rambam and you read the ramen for the Rambam, that's
not going to come. As I have Amina in your head,
the Ramam is just coming to give Shiva, Kaveri Tisrael to show
the importance that pretty much is Hakamim.
We're doing that, you know, to give the Shiva, that's how they
spoke. That's their lashon.
But not to take a literal like you can be like a like a Nazi
and then at the end of your life because you're buried or you can
be a Nazi and you're living in ariasis all your life.
So therefore you're OK to go. That's not there's no cheap
Sigulot and tricks you know with Hashem.
And it was just like I'm telling you like we were in synagogue
yelling at each other today about this and then you know you
have to speak their language. So what's the.
I went, I opened up the the Nosekilim on the Rambam and I
found Baruch Hashem de Leche Mishnah on the side and he
writes the Rambam. He went with Rav Rabi Eliezer.
I forgot Rabi Lazar but really he should have went with Rava on
the Gamara who's a Batra he came after and but according to the
later opinion they don't learn that pursuit talking about
you're going to be more held by living in actually so that's
talking about you Surin. So the lechemist the right there
ah the Roman. What he meant he just bringing
this in because it's not Sakalaha.
It's just he's giving us Israel and don't take it like Sakalaha.
And then after of course I went to and he of course he says that
straight up on the on the on the spot.
But you can't bring, you know that when you're talking with
people that come from a different background.
So you bring the Lechemist, you're like, OK, OK they still
wanted to argue with me on something else.
But the mindset that when you're reading a certain, you know when
you're reading the Rambam, you're reading it how you want
to read it and not what the Rambam meant.
So because of that you know trying to understand the Rambam,
you know where else will you go besides reading the Rambam's
works. You want to get the closest
source as well as Rabin Avram in a Rambam.
So now after that whole how every minute's whole story,
that's how we get the Rambam. Just a natural.
You know if you that natural desire to know the Rambam, that
at least the best second hand source we can get is Rabin Avram
in a Rambam. And it's actually it's funny in
my Shiva that I went to there's a one rabbi there that he
himself translated. He's Ashkenazi Rabbi H Rabbi
Winslbert. He translated the Hamaspik lo of
the Hashem. I'm sure you guys are familiar
but just for the the viewers that Hamaspik lo of the Hashem
it was his Magdalen Lopez a humongous collection of of of
his writings that he wrote not a collection but his his his his
safer that he wrote. We don't know how big it was
unfortunately we lost most of it and we're just finding fragments
or we have some fragments of it this so this safer the one that
we published with the dot press that was a pedic in his safer
people didn't know that but from now now we're pretty much 100%
sure that it's a it's a fragment from I must speak of dasham.
I just dealt with one pic on how to understand the mamrim of
Hazel but you have other ones that we have So Rabbi Wenzelberg
and the Ishiva there he published a different one more
on talking about his body do 10 and I think it's called the the
guide for serving God. I think it's published by the
guide. I think it's called the Guide
for Serving Hashem. I forgot what it's called the
English name that they used but and that's it's more about the
talking about the that which individual can get close
connection to Hashem. So I got very into that as well,
reading that and then started reading let's say his tissue,
what we got Avraham and just any time he could find that he talks
about what the Ramam said especially, I'm sorry, I never
knew about that. They need they're very outdated
like the the, the Girsa. The text is very bad.
There's actually a a good Yemenite friend of mine Ravi
Sharabi. He's working on doing a new one
with a new. I didn't.
Know about this? Awesome.
Let me know when that comes out. I'd I'd like to get there.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, so seeing whatever I can can
find about Ravin Ravima Rahman, there's actually a Ravmoshi
Maimon in Muncie. I think maybe he lives in
Lakewood. I'm not sure where he lives now,
but he put out these beautiful blue books as well on.
His name is Rabbi Moshe Maimon. That's cool.
Moshe Maimon. He is his family.
They claim to be descendants of the the Ramam as well.
They're from Turkey though, so he put out on, you know, on on
on Beta sheep. Oh, these are emotional.
Yeah, it's unbelievable. These are amazing.
They also have on the Mama. Mama Kazal as well.
So he I I was in contact with him and he actually he gave me
the his Hebrew version that he used which is actually the
Hebrew version that Rabbi Winselberg used and using
helping with a a Yamanite rabbi as well of Korach and Ertz
Israel and it's the one that was really worked on by a Rabbi
Moshe Meiselman in in in Israel. I think it's the ishiva.
You guys know what Ishiva it's called.
I don't know. I forgot what it is.
It's a it's a lot of American yeshiva there he he wrote a
sector called Torah Hazel in science.
Oh, I've seen that around. That's worth it.
So, he wrote. He actually brings the entire
Girsa in the back of the of the safer because he's trying to the
the pretty much the entire book. It probably was a a book to go
naked Rav Nathan Slifkin. That's why this whole book was
probably pretty much written. I've seen a back.
Yes, that's what it is. Yes, yes, on his.
On Slifkin's, I was Slifkin's side.
He has like a kind of like a. Critique.
Yes, So pretty much the whole thing.
And and the problem that the leader of this movement of of,
you know, ha HAMIM can make mistakes in science was, you
know, seemingly at least because that had people had access to it
for hundreds of years was Rabin Rahmanirami because of this
Mahmud of Hazel because it was printed in every single Eniacov
in the beginning of the Eniacov they bring it down, this whole
Mahmud of Hazel stating that Hakami make mistakes in science.
So you know, people from the morgue Shivish world, they
didn't like that so much. So Rabbi Meiselman, he goes out
to get the using the girsel that they found the new, the new
kitveyad they found in Mitzrayim.
And it was interesting because the parts, the very, the more
controversial parts were not found in the Kitveyad.
Only the, let's say more classic, more conventional,
more, you know, orthodox. Yeah, soundable parts for
certain people were found in were found in the Kitveyad.
So they found around maybe let's say 2/3 of the of of the entire
mahammar in Caviad. But the 1/3, which is the
beginning of the sepher, which really gets into the whole thing
about the ha hamim erring in science, let's say.
And again, it's very important to know that in the world of the
Rabbin Rabbi and Rahman, the Rahman as well, they look at
this like ha hamim. They make mistakes and they
admit to it and it's sheva and it's beautiful.
And they were using the advanced science at their time and it's
not from the science. But so Rabbi Meisman on the
other hand is trying to show that you know, it's probably
Mizzou yaf that whole introduction part.
The whole bit not the intro in the beginning of the Mammar is
Mizzou yaf. It's not from it's forge, it's
not from Rabin Rabin or Rahman. Impossible.
So Ramos Shimaiman, he dealt with it well, very well in his
book. He didn't really call out to
Rabin Mazemin but in in in the English, safer in the
understanding Hazel. I brought in a lot of the quotes
that rabble mazamin, Rabbi Mazamin proved while it's
incorrect this that it's it's forged.
And I was just trying to defend and show that you know this is
exactly the Shravov, the Rambam himself and not only that is the
Shravov. So many of the Gaonin that came
before their approach to major shame and and and also these
certain sayings or or certain scientific sayings that say that
you know they they didn't held that there was a luckily binding
nor was it something that they received on RC9.
And on top of it there's so many acronym as well that other rich
rhonym and other Afronym that held the same Ashrafa as well.
So that's pretty. It's not a it's not a new thing
that's that's the thing people think that it's like it's like a
like a dat Yahir. It's It's really not.
Yeah. Well, it's the, it's like the
most traditional approach actually that we have.
It's the most traditional approach.
It's just, you know, in, let's say in the world of the Balletto
Safote, etcetera, they didn't have that approach at all.
It was a very different approach and that became the more
mainstream approach. But for me, at least in this
world and living in a generation where let's say I came from,
it's important to know my background.
I guess that's why I said it. Coming from a world where I'm
from that generation loving to watch the debates between with
Sam Harris and we're all these atheists.
The. The.
Christopher Hitchin. Dawkins, Hitchin, Dawkins,
fighting, let's say great Christian apologetics like
William, like Crane, Craig, William, Craig, all these great
guys. Like I love watching the debates
and seeing these different things.
And you know there is knowledge. There is Huffman Lego in with
there is definitely knowledge. And how do we deal with it?
How we, you know, if you want to have a Judaism that can actually
survive in university on a university level, you know, be
able to argue with the professors and you know, say my
Judaism stands and you know I can be a orderly goem even
nowadays and with my Judaism and teach you, even if you want to
accept evolution, no problem, we can.
We can work with evolution. You don't want to.
OK, whatever. Whatever it is, we can work with
it with this approach, Because you're not.
You know, not married to anything.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not exposing your Judaism
because you're accepting because when you accept certain things
as dogma and saying that it's harsi nay and that every you
know the the way that people understand torch about PE
nowadays is it's just so all-encompassing torch about PE,
every single thing was torch about PE.
Therefore, now you actually are exposing your duties because you
know if you find something that doesn't fit with it and the
whole thing can fall. But when you have the
conception, there's a misconception by a lot of people
like that they think that everything we have today was
originating in Harsi nay. And it's really like it's
problematic because you you run into these kind of issues all
the time. All the time yeah I mean you you
you open up the the Rambam like you had a few of them 30
something of them and and he lists them and everything else
most of torch about page is what the San Hedren chose because
they had new situations came up they had a Mach locate and they
voted on majority and that became part of the you know
Torcia Balpe that is Torcia Balpe it's an ongoing evolution
of nuke situations happening and the hamim being posek what's
allahab based off a majority vote and that's Torcia Balpe but
everything. Else in the system, yeah, the
system is what's exactly and and what we got in RC 9 is really
the the foundation, it's the the basis of all the mitzvot.
But obviously every generation has to build off of that because
things change, times change. So we have these courts, you
know, like you mentioned. So I think that's just something
that's important for us to mention here because, you know,
people don't always have that understanding.
Absolutely, yeah. I'm telling you and it's it's
very when you have this approach you are able like last week I've
been a guy, some a person, a friend of mine.
Now he became a good friend of mine.
He was trying. He was becoming Jewish for many,
many years, converting 5-6 years.
He became much like a Tamil Hakam or as the Ramam said Tamil
Hakamim. He was a became a scholar.
He never converted. But because of you know, the
atmosphere in the in the, in the approach of the Jews, he was
around. He decided you know what, it's
not for him and he became a Muslim, but a very devout
Muslim. Yeah and and and so we we have
now it's like once a week we talk and he tries to prove Islam
to me and I maybe he's going to listen to this later.
But I his arguments, they don't work at all.
When you come with an approach from the Rambam, that style of
the approach of the Gammonin, because we don't have that we're
not bound to certain things that they have to be bound to that
other people are bound to no. And and at the same time too if
there's something that ha hamim say that's not talaq, you don't
have to say, we don't have to say it's you know it's we have
to follow that type of hashcuff or even if it's let's say it is
halakhic for example that I talk about in the book there could be
things that were let's say scientific the Hakamim were
posaic and we have to follow it. But that's just for example
let's say the Ramam says in in that there are certain things
nowadays we see the animals they're surviving much more than
one year and therefore why is it a problem?
The Ramam says it doesn't matter we can't add or we can't remove
because that was something that was goes there by the Hakamim.
So until we have a new based in there's a technicality we just
can't change the law even though if it's not scientifically you
know sound at the moment or for example Ralph Herzog he held
about killing Kiniman Shabbat lice.
You know in the entire world people believe in spontaneous
generation and that lice came out of nowhere until the the
invention of a microscope and people can see oh wow lice they
actually don't spontaneous generate they actually have
period rivia. Therefore maybe we can kill them
nowadays because the Gemara says the Mishnah says you can kill
Kenny man Shabbat because they don't come from they spontaneous
generate so the Halaka is you're allowed to kill they're almost
poset like that. So are we still nowadays Alaka
killed Who can should we be mahmir or not kill.
So the approach if I recall correctly of Rough Hertzog is
like, no, we can actually still kill them because that's the
Halaka and that's how Halaka is formatted.
You know the the Supreme Court divide me, Sir.
Let's pull second like that. So we still have to follow that
law because of the technicality. If the new bid didn't come
without the shame when all the rabbis get to act together we
want to make a new Sanhedrin. And that's the only way we could
have a unified Halaja is when we have a Sanhedrin.
Then things can change but not until then so it doesn't your
Judaism is so much more concrete and able to defend yourself in
this way. I see it all the time.
I there's also there's a very big Jew for Jesus.
His name is Doctor Michael Brown.
Yeah, they see the mustache. Yes, the guy with a mustache and
he unfortunately I see him, he he argues with the rabbis and he
defeats them, you know? Know why?
Actually, I saw him, even a guest on our previous guest on
our show, Rabbi Told You Singer. The reason why he defeats him is
because he kind of uses mudrash as his.
He argues against mudrash. Is this what you're going to get
to? And and the rabbis, what do we
do? You know, because now he kind
of, like cornered us. The problem is like hello.
Don't you understand? Hello.
Exactly, exactly. I mean he he really, I love to
be a singer but he cornered to be a singer in one place.
He actually, you know have to be a singer said that if maybe we
should edit this after I don't know.
But he said that. He said that you know, if you,
if you can, if you can prove me this, that one rabbi held in
that in in in Isaiah 52 or 53 that it was talking about the
Messiah and not Tami. Surreal.
Then you know, I'll convert to Christianity.
And Doctor Michael Brown actually found a Rishon that
held like that. But for us, it doesn't it
doesn't it? Doesn't the needle in any way?
It's not. It's it's not.
Oh God, yeah. Oh, I'm telling you, I actually
I started, I bought, I have his Doctor Michael Brown series on
like, you know, trying to disprove torture balpe and
trying to prove this and that. I mean, when you have this, this
Hashka FA of of like of the Rambam or let's say the later of
Haham Fawar, at least you can destroy these guys in a second
one second. Besides the fact that their
entire religion, Christianity is like, it's like Midrashim,
literally their whole religion, the New Testament is all about
demonology. Basically a midrash.
I mean, there have been big, big rabbis who actually were OK with
studying the New Testament as a midrash.
You know it's not. Big Midrash and it's all about,
you know, the Bukim and and people being possessed with the
devil and him taking it. It's all magic and sorcery, you
know, The whole thing is like that.
So this approach is just so it's unbelievable.
And I'm telling you I can you can argue with anybody when you
have this and you're already you tasted it, you're you watch his
debates and be like. You just want to jump in there
and you know, I think what Rabbi Toby Singer is doing is
unbelievable to dedicate his life to this.
But I think that's part of the the issue why he wasn't able to
answer that question, because I think he's been so immersed in
this specific topic that maybe he's not as nuanced in those
areas of understanding, let's say, what the goanim said about
Midrash. He's niche, yeah, he's very
that's his focus, but. A lot.
Of but overall I think his he does so much good for like 99%
of what he says just. He can no the he knows the
entire New Testament balpe and he can destroy them in the New
Testament. It's unbelievable.
And he knows Tanakh more than you know.
Unfortunately, a lot of Orthodox Jews don't want enough at all.
And he's just holding and he's there to defend us and he's
lesson and. Another thing about about Amen.
Another thing about you know the the debating with Christians.
One of the things that I think they use as a weapon against a
lot of rabbis and I think they also corner a lot of Jews with
with the Kabbalah. And again if you if you hold
like the Rambam you won't fall into those traps because
Kabbalah really does not apply and and and they use it if you
go to the Jews or Jesus website. I mentioned this before in the
podcast. Almost all of their arguments
are based on Midrash and Kabbalah.
Absolutely. They'll find, they'll find, you
know the ABBA IMA Zaryan pin and show that there's a Trinity in
Kabbalah and they'll do all these things like these like
mental gymnastics using that, those ideas.
And you're just like, OK, well most, many, many Jews don't
accept Kabbalah, right? So it's wrong.
Point. It's wrong point, You know, I
don't know if you guys read the Vikuach of the Ramban with Pablo
Christiani, he added. In And there it's actually
fascinating. The the, the, the, the, the
Christian, unfortunately. Pablo Christiani?
Yeah, Pablo. Christian.
He had to stay away from the Kabbalah stuff.
It wouldn't help the cause, yeah.
Yeah, but you always keep attacking the Ramban with
Midrasheen, Yeah. And what did the Ramban say?
I actually quoted in Understanding Azal.
He's saying what is Amidrash. He told him he's like, what is
Amidrash? Amidrash is Let's say one of
your popes come up and starts giving a dirasha on something.
That's what Amidrasha is. Each Rabbi comes and says
something. He doesn't source it saying that
he got it from his rabbi that got it from his Rabbi.
Rabbi, there's no, they're not saying I received it.
You know, all the way from here it's he's giving a dirasha
exposition on something and that's it.
So I don't have to know. All the Ramans says I don't have
to know. Sometimes he would say in the I
don't know this Midrash #1, because there's any of our so
there's so many midrash. We're even finding more.
You know the Midrashian, so many Midrashian, thousands.
We know when certain Midrashian were written or not.
And on top of it, I you can argue with the midrash, that's
what the Ramans said if that's what.
And then he would still try to speak their language and show
even within the Midrash that you know you're incorrect.
But it's a very important principle to know that too.
You know when you don't take Midrash?
Ramban uses strictly rational arguments there.
He doesn't tap into Kabbalah because that's opening
Pandora's. Box doesn't help the cause.
Yeah, we mentioned it recently on other podcast recently.
It's like okay, you wanna refute the Trinity.
If you're gonna introduce this sphero, even if you have a very
conservative and kosher kind of understanding of it, it's still
you're just creating bigger problems than solutions, you
know? Oh yeah.
Oh no. And these Christians, they know
that you, you start telling them about, you know, the Trinity.
Is that what a Zara? They're going to get you with
the Spherot and they're going to show you why the Trinity.
They can explain very easily why the Trinity is not the Burazera.
You know, they they can explain they had beautiful.
Yeah, they really explain it and they know they have.
I mean, you know, you know, you grew up in the yeshiva world and
you think like, you know, these guys don't know anything.
These guys know a lot. They're very.
Extremely first of all. It's a misconception that I've
only recently started realizing like in the past few years.
Like. To me, the Trinity made
absolutely no sense. Only like only a few years ago
did I realize that I was literally thinking Trinitarian
without even realizing it all the time.
Literally didn't even realize what I was doing.
We're actually going to have a, we're going to have a podcast
soon. We're going to be recording it
tomorrow. I don't know when we're going to
release it, but on the now they're on the topic on
Gnosticism and its influence on both Christianity and Judaism.
We didn't took Kabbalah. So it's a very important people
to understand you know it's it's really because like we said if
you go with Rambam and this this approach to to hashkafa you
really don't run into any problems.
It's just like even even the we were we had a rabbi, Rabbi my
roof on and we did an episode about Spinoza and I I recommend
everybody check that out and he basically shows throughout even
the atheist today all the problems that people have
against the idea of God. If you have the Rambam's
approach to To God, it's more it's something that even a
thoughtful kind of atheist would be open to accepting, because
it's it's so it's so like, reasonable, yes.
And you know, I I see this happen all the time because I
have a lot of friends, let's say they got Smika and certain Kuru
of Kodalim and they try to go and do Kuru of Rehokim.
And it's not so easy for them because the P, the generation
now, the people, the kids nowadays, they're even, they're
10 times more educated than I was.
They have in in a second. They know they're holding
everything about everything. Regular people, they're
listening. What's that famous show that
everybody listens to, Joe? Rogan.
Everyone's people, yeah. People love the the, the science
is flowing. People love it.
Elon Musk is the new Yashka. You know, people love the
science. People are they, they love this.
People are so educated. And in the religious world, it's
just like completely opposite. You know, you ask,
unfortunately, big rabbi is Gadolin.
You know, tell us the difference between a neuron and electron
and all the What's the protein or how does it matter?
Maybe what's the difference between chemistry and biology?
Basic stuff, we. Don't know.
It's a very big problem and you know.
Gadolin Yeah, yeah, it's. Actually, I think like what
people should look into is Ralph Cook, what he says about
atheism. Atheism is kind of forcing
Judaism to look itself in the mirror and sanitize itself.
And kind of like you can't have an atheist who believes in,
like, superstition and and you know this kind, this kind of
nonsense. So it forces Judaism to become
kind of more refined and sophisticated and intelligent.
No longer it has to drop all of the all the crazy stuff that has
attached itself to Judaism over the years.
It's forcing Judaism to become kind of like back to its roots,
back to the fundamentals. It's part of why our podcast
appeals. We've we've seen the people who
reach out to us. A lot of them are like, excorate
them, excrecide them, who didn't think there was a Derek for
them. They found find Judaism to be
very like, kind of arcane and and superstitious.
And they're like, oh wow, it's actually a Hokhmah.
There's a, there's a tradition, there's a Rambam.
We only heard we learned Rambam through the eyes of a different
rabbi. You know, like.
Which is what? We were talking about.
So this stuff, deathbed confessionals, all these
different. Confessional.
I can't stress it enough. This generation now, now you
have this artificial intelligence chat.
What chat? What's it called?
You want any information? It's right there in front of
you. This is a generation door, Di.
It's like to the extreme now and you know we're up for a battle
now. It's a big battle we can do all
the Jews that are already in Orthodox Judaism, OK for sure.
The bubble's getting, you know, the Bible, it's getting becoming
more a bigger bubble. I don't know how you say bigger
or smaller bubble, but they have to keep in their bubble more
because you know to fight this world.
And if you're not prepared to really deal with this, the
reality that people know the knowledge that's out there and
if you don't have the proper tools for it, it's it's really,
it's it's very dangerous. So that's very.
Optimistic about, you know, like like even you see the interest.
Like Lex Friedman podcast, also another famous podcast.
He's having like Muslims on Jordan Peterson, having
Christians on all these people having these conversations all
these years, for centuries, all these religions have kind of
been at each other's throats the first time.
There's this kind of place where everyone could just have these
conversations and it's bringing knowledge of God to the world.
Like even even though Christianity, we don't believe
Christianity or Islam is the truth, but they contain a lot of
truths and they're positive developments for mankind
according to Rambam, where it's like, you know, they're kind of
pushing the idea of Hashem to the world, even if it's not
exactly the way. But it's still for the Goem.
It's it's it's great. Even for you know the way of the
Rambam right now I'm actually translating a safer, even
Falaquera. I mean they they were learning
from the going. They were best friends with the
Rahman, learned so much from the Sufi Muslims.
He said that they they they contain some of the misorah that
we lost, you know, the the. Way they pray.
They pray, etcetera, certain style of life.
So I mean, there's so much in Islam.
You know, I talked to like say my Muslim friend or other Muslim
friends and they're like, you know, they're more than me.
I'm like, wow. You know, I got, you know,
sometimes you can relate to them like wow and and and it's such a
copy of Judaism Islam very. So we can.
We can. Learn a lot from from them as
well. I think that there's a lot of.
World, yeah. And there's a lot of
similarities, of course, a lot of big differences.
And you know when we have our that the proper approach and
foundation that, you know Baruch Hashim, you guys are pushing
for, we're able to show and really be on top of this game of
our religion. But there's definitely so much,
you know, we're definitely in the same boat in a lot of
matters, for sure. Absolutely, yeah.
I mean, I actually, I'm going to be releasing a podcast with I
had with Imam, so look forward to that one.
That's beautiful. Beautiful.
I also think that the the, the bubble system, how long can it
really last in this day and age? I don't think they can really
last. I mean it's it's a, it's a type
of, it doesn't end well, these type of things.
People, people, you can't constrict people for too long
eventually. And we've seen it.
You know, we've seen it. You know, you've seen it like
this year with people that you know in that world, right?
That you. Know the dostora kind of
mentality is falling apart at the and it seems and it's it's
it's only a matter of time till people have to choose.
You know, do they still want a Judaism that is based in truth
and tradition? And reality.
And reality, right? Or or are we going to keep
playing this, you know, game that it's just put your head in
the sand, you know? And it's a caval because like
you say, like if people would open their open their minds to
the to the Rambam and to the hochman the loose in general,
you know the world is your friend.
Knowledge is your friends door to your mind.
Man. It's AIDS us, you know, So it's
it's Mamasha Kaval. And you know, the whole point of
this podcast is to try to open people's eyes to to that Derek.
Science is not like you mentioned earlier.
It's not a threat. It's it's our friend.
It's. A.
The the creator of the world is also the you know, the author of
the Torah is also the the author of the world.
It's there's they're not two separate categories.
Absolutely no. Well, you said it.
It's true because you know how much can this bubble go for in
in history it it does repeat itself.
There was, you know, unfortunately 90 something
percent of all Ashkenazi went off the day when, you know,
Napoleon allowed, you know, he's opened up the world to them.
And how were they, how was the Hashka before that, when when
Napoleon allowed them to start becoming, you know, included in
society? I think maybe I'm getting
history wrong, but I thought it was Napoleon.
But you know it it 90 something percent of all Jews, you know of
Ashkenazi Jews completely went off.
You know nowadays you know does history repeat itself again if
so many. The bubble, the people, the
closed mindedness of people is getting more and more closed the
way they they they're, they're so intolerable to certain ideas
if you even quote. I remember my brother once
quoted he was even at the Vartora.
My brother's also a rabbi and he actually just translating the
he's publishing coming out a couple of weeks, the grandson of
of the Rambam, Nagid, Davida, Nagid, Peruchon and Pircavot.
But he told me that once he gave Adela Shah and he quoted
antinones not maybe I forgot who it was.
He quoted some some philosopher and the the crowd, one rabbi
there like yelled at him and told him to sit down and he went
nuts at him because of that. So it there, it's really like
the bubbles getting. Really, really, you know, I
don't know. Attention is really there.
It's it's cabal. It's.
Sad intention's there and. Because, you know, they only
knew that, like picquet a vote is basically based on on
stoicism, the Greek Stoicism. Marcus Aurelius.
Epictetus, you know this is this is the.
Wisdom. Crazy.
So many similarities. Like the some lines are the
exact dire quotes. You know, exactly quotes.
There's this idea. That, like Judaism can't look.
That's the whole beauty of of Torah.
Is that the hazard? They they would see wisdom of
the world and they would they would bring it into Judaism.
Kind of like show that it's compatible.
You know, like when there's wisdom, wisdom is wisdom.
Doesn't matter what source it comes.
From objective. Yes, not.
And that's people, like they say, like, oh, the Talmud is
filled with astrology, It's filled with, you know,
demonology, all these different things.
So like, you know, in the Rambam, they attack the Rambam
all the time. So there's an opposite way to
look at it. Like if you know the history
back then, astrology, back then, demonology, these were like,
these were like these were the top, you know, society.
If you want to be a cultured person, a sophisticated person,
this is what you had to believe. So to say that, you know, oh,
how couldn't, how could they believe in these things if it
was wrong that that's, that was a science of their time.
Again, in the this was a Halachala machine.
I don't believe in these things, no.
But even Ramban, when he believed in, you know,
necromancy, he says the science of necromancy, meaning he
understood it as part of like the the laws of law of the laws
of. Nature.
Well, he says more than that, He he clearly doesn't call it
Missouri, because he actually says that he went and tried to
discover for himself whether it's true and he saw it with his
own eyes, meaning he performed what in his mind was a
scientific, you know, procedure in his mind to to to realize the
truth of it or not. He did not say, like I received
from my, you know, my rabbi or this or that.
That was not the the Ramban's words.
He says that it appears to Huma somewhere, I don't remember
where, but that's what he said. So he he actually verified for
himself through his whatever means he he felt, you know
compelled him and but he verified for himself so.
You find. The men as well.
Oh, I didn't know about that one.
Yeah, the men as well. He tried.
He, he tries to prove certain, you know, things, this heebie,
jeebie stuff, let's say based off certain science realities
that, you know, he said that the whole world accepts during his
time certain things that can't be explained by nature.
And nowadays, you know, we can really explain a lot of it, you
know? Yeah, so.
Yeah, like someone you know 200 years ago would would you know,
they would think he's having a exorcism, but really it's.
Just a. He's just having an epileptic
seizure, you know, throwing holy water on him, you know, But
today there's medication. So there's, you know, it's just
how do we deal with there's, there's discoveries that we make
over time and the rabbis are always trying to give an
explanation, a scientific explanation for those things.
Yeah, you know, so we can't fault them for that.
That's absolutely. And there's two ways of like
looking at there's another approach is that Hakamim?
I mean the Robin himself in in a Tisha about astrology.
He explains that it was like a it was a small minor opinion of
that believed in astrology, but the Rabim Rov didn't believe in
it. That's one approach.
Another approach is that is that the Hakami themselves, they
didn't believe in these things, but they allowed certain things
like within the in the cipher as well.
Like why did they allow certain, let's say, amulets to be used,
carried on Shabbat, etcetera? The conceited ideas.
People believe in it, so they allowed certain they also.
Have the trade, trade approach or the trade approach, Yeah they
sort of they they find it like almost like how would you.
Yeah, they're using, for example, they'll see like
shedim, right? And they'll say that they didn't
really believe in demons, but they were appropriating these
ideas from their culture because it was a commonly understood
kind of idea. And really, they're just using
it to kind of give over ideas. It's or it's scientific science
of the. Time also that I think they also
hold that there's certain sarcasm involved.
Yes, yes. I think that's what it was.
There's a sarcasm involved, like the one with the demons by the
mountain and night. What was?
It well, there's always, every time demons are showing up,
there was an isolation. Correct, yes.
So there's. So he says it's that's where
that's your imagination. It's teaching us about, you
know, don't let your imagination run wild.
Because what happens is that that's the imagination is the
seed of idolatry. So if you put yourself in
situations where you're in an abandoned building or you're
alone at night and you're, you're gonna start, Yeah.
If you're isolated on a mountain, on a island somewhere,
you're gonna start potentially talking to yourself or hearing
voices in your head. So you kind of have to.
Like it's another approach, it's another approach.
It's another approach. But there's many approaches,
yeah. Yeah.
One one thing that's very important that I want to just
add in is that you know sometimes when you get to this
more rational approach unfortunately they your your
religious level kind of, you know that inspiration that that
spark and you kind of can can go down and and then also your
halachic following and your observance just also kind of
goes down. So something about the Rabbin
Rabbana Rambam that is just for me just such a Jehizuk and why I
I love him so much is that he was like Hasid, let's say he was
you know doing hit body dude. He talked about hit body dude
before anybody, just going in the middle of the nowhere and
praying and leaving everybody else and and and still at the
same time with such religious devotion.
And the Rama as well, you know he would go to the mikveh every
time he had to carry. He talked about it in his
teshuva. You know they were he was a
Hasid as well in halacha very pious medakdek and everything
but at the same time they were they would follow halaja without
you know the I'm sure you guys are aware that they don't have
all the culotte that let's say the Valitos of what come up with
you know based off oh Battel battel tan Battel halaja you
know Battel gazera. And they didn't they didn't have
that concept. You know there's the culotte you
find in others in other school of thoughts.
But Rambam rabim a so maybe perhaps we're a lot to dance
like the the Rama brings down. Let's say no, the Rama doesn't
matter. That's a gizzard.
Ah that's the law. We have to follow it.
There's 100% commitment to a la ha at the same time super
spiritual as well like Rabin Rahman and Rama at the same
time. So rational, so rational.
Top of the size. Top doctors in the world the.
Idea of of not being spiritual is so wrong, 'cause I feel more
since I became. Yeah, yeah.
Since we became like we used to study Kabbalahasi, dude.
Since we became rational quote UN quote.
I hate to use the term but there's we've been so inspired
because when you get that flash of like wisdom and like that aha
moment because it's not it's not a world of abstraction like the
you know like the more mystical kind of streams.
It's a it's a world of of understanding.
Everything builds on it's on the other thing, right.
It's like a it's an amazing system of of knowledge that we
never even knew existed. And to me, it's the most
inspirational thing. We don't.
We don't lose that inspiration. I'll tell you.
I'll tell you something when someone who is.
Look, I myself, I admit it all the time.
I studied Kabbalah and hasidut for a long time, mainly Hasidut,
not so much Kabbalah. I wasn't very big into like
Kabbalah, Kabbalah, I was more into hasidut and inspiration and
stuff like that. Kabbalah also, but I'm saying
like more. My focus was more on that.
From that end, there's a certain addiction that.
That develops over time, where you get a little bit addicted to
a certain way of thinking, of way of getting inspired.
You need to adjust your mindset. That is a little bit difficult
in the beginning. You have to adjust your mind.
You have to adjust the way you see things.
You have to adjust the way you approach things.
But if a person is willing to take that leap, you know,
because a lot of people are scared, because a lot of people
are happy with their inspiration and with their abstractions and
with their, you know, imaginative.
You know what I'm saying, right? People are happy with that
because it it does feel good and it feels like you're getting
close to God in your own imagination or whatever.
But if a person can can pass that, leap that and adjust their
mind frame on the other side, there's just as much
inspiration. It's just learning how to get in
in a different way. You have to learn how to get in
a different way. It takes, it's an adjustment,
but it's it's available. You just have to take the leap
in a way. Absolutely.
And it's important that we, you know I think this is a
especially in the safari world you know most of the our our
parents grandparents and everything they weren't part of
this as you can. I don't like to use the term as
well rational world as well. But now this generation there
are a lot of people that are becoming like this.
You see in London the Habura started.
These are the last smarty guys that are you know all like
minded people like us. So we're kind of like a new into
this and it's important for us to make communities get together
kind of you know help structure and help help each other out in
this path of being committed Halakhi Jews 100% creating Tami
de ha hamim writing sfarim writing tissue world writing
everything and and and at the same time spiritual and we have
to we have to you know we have to work with each other.
We all have to. Help.
We need to build. We need to.
Build. And we also need to, you know,
reach out and have conversations with people outside of our
bubble because it's very, you know, like that's one thing we
do and maybe we get criticism from it, from like the purists.
But the truth is we we want this idea, these ideas to spread.
We want it to be, you know, it's a revive.
There's a real need and a real desire for people right now to
to find something that's rationally based.
Everybody craves it. We live in like we live in the
age of skepticism and reason and and and the age of information.
People desire this. They just don't know that it
exists. So I think that you being part
of this is really like, you're a pioneer.
What you're doing right now is unbelievable.
And we want we want to connect with people like you to, you
know, get people excited again and to understand that there's
there's revolution happening in Torah.
So we want to thank you for coming on.
And if you can quickly plug your book again and just tell
everybody where they could find it, that would be great.
So much thank you for having me the book, see if I have one
here. Yes, understanding Hazan, it is
available on the on Amazon only or you can actually go to dot
dot press DAAT dot PRESS and we have the links there for the
safer as well we. Can add, yeah, we're going to
add a link. Add a link.
Description for that press for anyone.
So really, we, we want to thank you so much.
It was a great conversation. We're happy to get to know you
and we hope to do this again. Amen.
Chavoto, thank you guys for the opportunity.
All the best, really appreciate it.
Thank you. Hey guys, thanks so much for
tuning into the Judas and Demystified podcast.
We really appreciate all your support and your feedback.
If you wanna help us grow the podcast, keep spreading the
word. Share with your friends, family,
or whoever you think would be interested.
We also opened a Patreon so you can become a patron, contribute
any small amount you'd like, which would really help us grow
the show. Our Patreon is
www.patreon.com/judaism. Pretty easy to remember.
Thank you again and we hope to keep putting out great shows for
you guys. Before we go, we want to thank
our Patreon supporters by name. Those are the supporters that
are helping make this show happen because frankly Benci and
I are full time workers who don't really have so much time
on our hands because we have families, we have kids and it's
just a passion project that got way bigger than we expected.
So we're dedicating more time to this and obviously our
production value up until this point hasn't been great
considering that we film this in Benci's basement using a green
screen and a crappy little microphone and not such great
equipment to be honest, I'm sure you all realize that.
So we are hoping to up our quality and get better equipment
and part of that process is going to be due to you guys, the
listeners and supporters. If you go to our Patreon page,
patreon.com/judaism, you will see all the different tiers of
ways you can help us out. So first of all, we want to
thank our super patron Jordan Carmeli, our platinum patron
Craig Gordon, our Gold patrons David Haye, Abram, Khayev, Laser
Cohen, Travis Kruger, Vasily Volkov, Silver patrons, Ellen
Fleischer, Daniel Maximov, Rabbi Penny Rosenthal, and Jeffrey
Wasserman. Thank you all for supporting the
show and we hope you guys enjoy.