Welcome to Judaism demystified a podcast for the perplexed.
We are joined by Rabbi Joseph. Dweck a right to work is the
senior Rabbi of the SP Sephardic community of the UK, the
country's oldest Jewish Community established in 1656.
He was elected to this position in 2013, with a 272 for vote
margin, believed to be the largest and UK synagogue
history. I would wreck is even born and
studied in Jerusalem at Yeshiva has on ovadia under the tutelage
of former Sephardic. Chief Rabbi revati Joseph, a
direct received his rabbinic ordination from Nevada under the
auspices of the Sephardic rabbinical College of Brooklyn.
Led by Rabbi Shimon aloof and Robert Harold Sutton.
He has a master of arts degree in Jewish Education from
Middlesex University in conjunction with the London
School of Jewish studies and he is working towards a master's in
Psychotherapy at Regent University London.
In this capacity of senior Rabbi he oversees its religious Works
rabbinic staff and the Safari bit Dean and the Safari kashrut
Authority is also the deputy president of the L SJ s, a
president of the Council of Christians and Jews and an
ecclesiastical authority to the board of deputies of British
Jews. Robert Drake also serves as a
member of the standing committee of the conference of European
rabbis. Right.
Direct is a sought after speaker and teacher.
Teacher in the UK and abroad. His digital presence has Global
reach through virtual classes, social media, activities, a
mobile application, and podcast. And of course he is, also the
founder of the Hub ra which I highly recommend to everybody
who's listening who hasn't heard of it to definitely check it
out. Without further Ado, About
Joseph dweck, Thank you for joining the Judaism demystified
podcast one question. We really wanted to ask someone
like you is does the maimonides and path lack spirituality?
Hmm. Well, first of all, you know,
I'm very grateful to be able to have an opportunity to speak
with you both and to be on the podcast.
And so thank you very much for having me on, you know, the
question about it honestly. I kind of find the question.
Very interesting because I wouldn't have even Occurred to
me, that there should be such a question, you know, that does
the maimonides and, you know, approach to Torah and mitzvot
and so, on, black spirituality for me, you know, in my
involvement with it, there's no question about that.
Of course, the question, whenever somebody speaks about
spirituality is, what do you mean by spirituality?
So, I would challenge you to explain that a little bit more.
What do you mean by spirituality?
Well, what I mean is what the common person would say is like
the roof new tablets. They like the cahsee dude has to
offer, you know, they have they have Amor, let's just called
inspirational Judaism where there's there's a constant
there's a constant need for inspiration, number one and
keeping people engaged. So inspiration is built right?
That word is in spirit to write it is that one has Spirit within
that's what inspiring me. And so I can get why it is that
you're saying that. And if you're looking at Achoo
ality as being a kind of inspiring experience.
In terms of the you know in terms of what it is that's being
taught in the framework of thought and practice.
I mean I honestly for me the most hands-down single greatest
inspirational teaching in my life is out on Bond and that is
because Adam Bomb teaches a life positive year.
Full framework of what it is to live as a member of Israel in
the world in Covenant with God. So if that is one's goal, right?
In other words, if one wants to be a full-fledged conscious
Jewish person in Covenant with God, my opinion is that you
can't get better than her MBA because what you need in order
to be able to do that is to be able to know what you're doing.
Right to understand what what is the framework of the Covenant?
What are we expecting? To do, how am I as an individual
scene within that govern? How is how am I as a member of
Cloudy Israel seen in that Covenant?
What do I relate to the mitzvahed of the Torah that are
presented to me? And there is no one and I say
that, you know, with pause and Consciousness, there is no one
like her MBA who has treated the entire Torah meaning, all of
them, it's vote and its framework in consistent approach
like he has and, you know, of course, yes, a person can study
through the entire tunnel mood together with the, you know,
Tasha back table. That's a very great ordeal and
the talmud itself is a vast sea of information and intricacies,
right? The Mustang daughter called
mosquito because their weaves essentially of thought and Law
and and it's very specific way of presenting ideas.
But it's also it's also left open, right?
It's also left. Kind of you know open to
interpretation the reality is and I say this frankly How Time
Bomb is much less open to interpretation people can always
put their projections onto whatever it is that they're
reading. But on bomb is a specific
approach in that. And the reason why the approach
is inspiring to me and indeed, spiritually, uplifting to me is
because if I'm living in this paradigm, My interest is to be
able to be the best that I can be right in this in this
endeavor. And how Time Bomb gives me tools
for that like no one else. So if it's a question of what
the law is in any particular situation, I always look to him
as An Origin because there's no law that is in June the Corpus
of Jewish law that on bomb. Does not in some way treat.
I mean, obviously there's a lot of modern law that unbounded
know about nor speak about, but the source of it all the
principles. All this presented by him and is
presented by him in very specific context in meaning and
therefore meaning and aarambam. Also, if you study the more than
double cream you have a very strong sense of the
inspirational. Covenant and relationship that
we have with a kadosh Baruch who and his attention to us and our
work in terms of developing that relationship and so on.
So it may be true that if people are questioning that there may
be a little bit, they may be lacking scholarship, a little
bit in terms of how Time Bomb you know what is they're looking
for or they'll They may be looking for something else,
right, outside of what it is that I've just described, they
may be looking for just some kind of motivational pep talk or
something in order to be able to get through.
Which I also find out of bombs works, you know, it's very rare
that the end of a set of Holocaust will not have an
inspirational and meaningful encouragement and framing of, of
what it is that we're doing. Given the, you know, the set of
laws that are being presented. So, I don't I don't recognize
the question right to begin with.
And if there is a question for people, I would say.
One of two things, I would question whether indeed that is
what their goal is, Right? Meaning to be able to live in
full Covenant, with akos bottle who in Clarity of its framework
and our personal personal position within that if that's
what their goal is. I think everything is there.
And and if not then maybe there's something else and the
second is it just me? Scholarship.
Right? I mean how dumb bombs works are?
They don't have pages of inspiration.
In other words, you didn't right here is a book of inspiration.
Yeah. Which may be what hussy, dude.
Kind of attempted to do in its own way, given the
circumstances. Yeah, but you, if you read
through on a bomb and you have to find the, you know, what's
written about, you know, approaching a relationship with
him and what's open to mankind. Like he writes at the end of
shemitah. VO, Veil or you talk about you,
you listen to what he writes about Happiness and joy in life
at the end of a whole new love or you listen to about what he
writes about, the meaning of Mitzvah that the end of.
He'll hold Maryland. Also Tamara you need to you need
to read it, you know, you need to, you need to be able to find
it but it is in the study of his of his whole work that one finds
this. So for quick fixes or for kind
of you know, A Treatise on inspiration.
Yes one might be wanting, you know, in terms of how it is a
time, bomb puts things out but if one is consistent, Studies
the entire framework as he presents it.
In my opinion, there's nothing more inspiring and nothing more
profoundly moving. I've mentioned several times in
various, you know, kind of classes that I've given her
talks that I've said, I mean, when I held a page of the Mirena
Bohemian, my hand. When I visited Cambridge and the
kinesia, they put this paper in my hand, right?
It was basically held in thin plastic.
They put this and I of course, recognize on bombs handwriting,
I didn't know what. It was, I thought maybe it was a
letter or something, and I looked out in the person said,
that's a page from the motor in the movie, I started crying.
I was so deeply moved that. This man who had spent all of
this time to write for me, such wisdom, such guidance, such
profound. Truth to me Generations later
right now obviously, not to me personally, but knowing that
somebody might, you know, and of course I was moved to tears.
So I You know, I do, I'm not sure that I recognize the
question. But so I think I think if I had
have to give it a little bit more detail and again, obviously
it's not our view, but it's the view that we hear from many
people is that there seems to be this since there's this feels as
if there's a distance between man and God versus let's say the
kabbalistic and Hasidic tradition where God is immanent.
And there's this people feel like they can't connect to the
The god of rambam because it's maybe too distant and there's a
unbridgeable gap too hard to get there.
Yeah. Yeah I think that's also false.
I think that if people study Kabbalah appropriately, they
recognize that. Any even in Kabbalah, the
relationship with a kadosh Baruch who has to do with our
commitment to the relationship with a kind of Sparkle right.
There is I don't want to get into the, you know, the
nitty-gritty details of halacha but there is definitely even a
concept with regards to this if he wrote and how it is, they
Facing manifest in hushed. Aha, that there is a withdrawal
of spirit, right? There's it's called klat klat
bit lot, right? At the, the, which essentially
is a collage, but whose engagement and involvement,
touch kaha just recedes your own based on the pursuit lawyer,
Guru Cara, right. That, that that evil cannot
touch you a color. So in terms of Kabbalah hours,
it's like, I don't know what draws in the Torah itself.
It talks about his Stephanie right on the, a steel pan.
I mean, what does that mean? That It means that we have to
work in order to be able to build close relationship with a
kadosh Baruch. Yes, of course, there is a
default of briefed for every single member of cloud.
He's right. But that's the default.
So of course I do you torture don't say I am moving a lot, o
lovers O, A kadosh Baruch who will not just forsake his people
but that's the enter private Enterprise of Israel, right?
That is the corporate entity that is cloudless Ryan but you
and me is individuals, of course, there's A requirement
and an expectation that we build in terms of that relationship,
consider the fact that if the relationship was always full on
right, the highest levels, there would be no room really to talk
about our relationship would just be status quo, just be what
is? So that's the case with every
relationship and what people believe is that ha molds, that
it's very difficult to get in contact with.
I gotta wash bottle and that's false It's just that on a bun
takes it very seriously, right? He talks about the relationship
as we would any meaningful and serious relationship of our
life. Right.
And that is expected. That's part of it.
We are meant to extrapolate the relationship dynamics that we
have with deep intimate loves the as we would with a kadosh
Baruch, right? That was how those relationships
would run with us as we would run with a collage bottle.
That's why She-Ra She-Ra him as rambam rights in the end of a
local tissue bhama. Shalu, lot of our Z, right?
All shearing is essentially a, you know, a metaphor for the
relationship. They were regulars who and
although she regime is a story about This deep intimate love
between a man and a woman. So of course, relationships are
serious and meaningful. These are not, these are not,
you know, I don't want to use the word childish, you know,
because that makes child. You know, childlike things not
valuable but they are not. They are not Elementary.
Yeah, they are. They're complex.
They're sophisticated and the more that we take, seriously,
the relationship that we have with a kadosh Baruch, who, of
course, the more deep and intimate, it will be, but no, I
got those people who even according to our own bomb is not
far off somewhere. Is there he's imminent, it's
there, he's waiting for us, he's relationship ready.
He's interested in us being engaged with him and Harem Bond
rights in Hill. Hutou Shuba.
There is nothing that stands in the way of tissue about
anything, even though the worst thing ever at issue is always an
option for us. Yeah.
So, again, very inspiring, very moving very meaningful.
But her mom also does not. You know, does not treat the the
relationship with God and end the Torah itself for that
matter. As a kind of an elementary minor
negligible thing, it's very serious for him.
It's a very real thing and in the same way that when we love
someone everything matters more not less.
When you love someone or when somebody loves you and you're in
a loving relationship with somebody, they don't say good
morning. It means something.
You know, we have a co-worker who forgot to say good morning
to you. All right?
At the end of this at the end, Yeah, I'm going to sit there
unless, you know, you've got kind of concerns about that
General. You not going to sit and
ruminate on it all. But if your wife, or your
husband, or your, or, or a deep love of your life, doesn't say
good morning to you, that's catastrophic.
It's catastrophic so things change.
So, you know, saw it so hard. Yes, relationships are difficult
either responsibilities, they bear weight and so on.
So so, so I disagree that it's harder.
As far as huh. Her about her mom gives us, he
writes constantly that are kadosh Baruch who is there and
available and interested and wanting.
He said, I am constantly, but he doesn't water down the reality
of the nature of the relationship.
Relationship requires commitment.
Dedication work. Yeah, beautiful.
Thank you. Okay, we wanted to ask the rav
if we were wondering. How would a maimana Dean
Community look like there. There's not much at least not
that we know of. There's not too many maimonides
in communities today. You know most people that
subscribe to the path of the rambam, it's more individualized
to themselves. What would be?
How would, how would the parameters?
And the how would we want to implement?
Realistically a maimonides in community today.
Right. Well, I mean, I guess that they
were probably, there are probably two aspects to that
really inherent in what it is, you're asking because there is a
philosophical aspect and then there's a lock aspect right?
Not to divorce the two. I mean for how Timebomb, they're
not divorced, right? The same, which again, is part
of the beauty of his old approach, but I think that in
modern normative Judaism today, It's been quite some time since
autumn bottom sealed. His magnum, opus, the machine
and Torah, and so so much has happened since then, right?
So it's important. First of all, one of the major
things that happens is I was ashore on our rule.
Yeah, that might have been abusive caromar on.
He wrote his Honolulu and the show Haruka, was not a minor
wave in the world of Jewish law and practice, right?
So you know, one, your question would without saying it would
Kind of assumed that we would kind of, like, park has Shalom.
I'm not saying we should do that.
I like what I park the show. Hannah rules take, take the
missionary to rise the predominant, you know, legal
challenges. Those are, those are, those are
not minor issues, right? Those were very, very, very
serious things. And I'm not even advocating for
that. I'm not necessarily saying that,
that's what it is, we should do. Because I think also that the
process of history of the Jewish people is not a minor thing
either. Right.
I mean, we have to take into consideration the effects, you
know, and the manifestations of These things and that's, that's
obviously its theological. It's been esoteric.
I get that. I'm, you know, I'm putting out
forth and there are many, many, many people that would disagree
with me, many significant Scholars Rock.
I mean, that would disagree with me and probably some even that
would call me off my rocker for saying that.
But what I'm saying is that, the historical developments of the
Jewish people are not negligible, right?
The fact that bitterness have Caro, his work came To be within
us as it did not saying that there aren't issues kind of that
we struggle with sometimes, but it is what it is.
It's there. And I certainly would not
Advocate kind of disregarding that hospital, you know, not
only that but what, you know, in my opinion would be a tremendous
lack of covered. Covered Haka mean any harm?
Our on, think about a man. I Envision a man sitting at a
desk with a can Duel at night and a quill in his hand, Euro
writing the bitch or say, you know, for that work alone, you
know, takes a bit of, you know, reverence and and deference for
that matter to him. So we're not practically in a
situation and I will say on the back of that, which I think is
important is that How do I frame them without getting too long
with it? Remember, That the Bedrock
Covenant with the Jewish people is the Covenant of Abraham
abena. It's worth everything is built
upon everything every subsequent, breathe, every law.
Everything is built on the Breda Brahma Bean, and the breed of
Abraham urbino is not with Ibraham and his student.
I cannot stress that enough. It is not with Ibraham in his
students as with Abraham and his children, it with his family.
And that means that if there is any core element of the Jewish
people of the of army Israel. It's the people.
And that means that to some degree.
We must recognize that being part of the people as they are.
Is in and of itself a value right now.
That's not to say that if we see the collective going wrong,
right? Or we see the collective is
going on a path that isn't necessarily righteous or
appropriate. That we shouldn't say something
do something, fight it, you know, and so on and I cannot me,
there's no, there's no lacking of that in Jewish history, you
know? I mean, how do guys that for all
intents and purposes, you know, we literally celebrate that
Annika, but Still being part of the cloud is not a minor value.
And the cloud has accepted certain things, right?
And even on bomb, recognizes that there is a certain value to
the Kabbalah Tara beam. Right?
What it is, that the role of a row of Israel?
Right? How is it?
We have, we have approached things, so I'll give an example
of this. You know, he in the mission in
torrevieja rambam, rarely ever write anything that Not his
understanding of the established law of the talmud like that.
That's not a natural. That's what did you put some
English? Etc.
And interesting of all laws and who fought for America, right?
Which I said is a is a is a more add that recognizes the fight of
one group of Jews against other group of Jews in the Vindication
of the group of Jews that are fighting for Torah, you know,
over those that wanted to leave the room.
So he writes how it is that we're supposed to do the
lighting of the narrowed, right on how to log on his he presents
his understanding. Of the sugiyama adrene and
hundred mean, I'm Adrian. Right?
The ones who beautify them is about do this.
And once we beautified further, do this, and he gives his whole
analysis of the Segura, how it's supposed to be practically
understood and then at the end of that, he says, however Mina
had before Laredos feraud, he says, however, the actual
practice in all of our cities, Inspiron is not like, I'm
writing is like this, and he puts it into the machine, a
Surah, he concludes that. Was this you can argue and say,
yeah but you're hot on bomb, you understand that?
So guys, this that's the demon truth and that's how it should
be forget about them in hug, why doesn't he come back them in a
hug and said, hey, I got, this is what we do, right?
This is what everybody doesn't. There's value to the fact that
the collective has decided that this is what it is that we're
doing. And then there's certain things
that, you know, we we wait for history to be able to determine,
but think about the Jewish people as well.
The Jewish people are the most most individualistically minded
people, right? We we don't take things easy.
Easily. We don't do things in unison.
Well it's a challenge for us, you know, it's like the old joke
about to the two shoes, you know?
And so on and so forth, you know, you've got one guy in a
desert island. There's a sure that he goes to
another shoulder. He doesn't go to the to find
given that, that kind of, you know, tongue-in-cheek reality
things that have spread across the Jewish World in practice and
accepted in unison. Is again, I'm suggesting is not
minor. I'm not saying that it should be
hungry Louisville removal but it's not minor.
So I wouldn't necessarily Advocate creating a community
that is solely and completely based on the missionary Torah,
rambam lived, when he lived and there's been development in the
People since and we have to recognize when I can erase, you
know, hundreds of years of History post on Mom just to be
able to to establish that. And that's not to say that.
I don't I don't certainly Advocate recognize, I don't,
nobody needs me to do that. Iíve certainly not the guy doing
that. I mean how how come over?
Yeah. You'll save in his introduction
to the shallow to toward parador, which are true.
Both of our MBA, which was put out by his son.
Whom the video said, haha, Baba Yaga writes that if there is a
tissue bother, we find of her MBA that goes against the sack
of the Shahrukh. We go like the tissue around
bomb over the passage on aruch. Because if we could say that if
Moran saw the trevorrow Bobby people sick like the tissue
Baba. So there's no question that even
with the shot, I will grab a very major.
It's a major 80% of your honor has just the words of a number.
So look, I mean, you know, there are adjustments that happen
there. There are elements that on bomb
was Passaic in his understanding of the Sue.
Guilt of the talmud that in general.
We don't, we don't do we follow rather how it is that, they're
trying to rule established it and and I say that to be part of
Cloudy Israel and to practice as the majority of the cloud are
practicing, unless it's something that is my mush mush.
Absolutely, you know, wrong and against how it is, if there's no
possible way to understand the taboo that way, which is usually
not the case. We shouldn't forsake that we
shouldn't forsake that easily. Yeah, I'm not saying should
never be done, but we shouldn't easily Forsaken, and I think
that the Creator a community that is solely.
Practicing, her mom is not necessarily the best thing to do
again. I say that knowing that there
are many rambam necks out there, that think I should be burned in
effigy for saying that but nonetheless, that is my private
opinion. However, I would say that, then
in general, the philosophical approach of rambam to Dora and
Tim, it's voted to the again I use the word framework of
Jewish. Practice, and thought, as the
framework should be advocated and that should be done.
When I do think that it's happening, you know, it's
happening in various places. That's one of the reasons why
I'm very proud of the humble Rock.
I mean, you know, one of the reasons we started the humble
Rao is because we wanted to be able to put the thought out,
right? To be able to have a framework
of thought to be able to understand their approach to the
burrito kadosh Baruch hu to being part of cloud.
He's right that I think is zero. No, the I use the analogy of the
volume has been turned down on it for a very long time and I
want to turn the volume up on that and be able to give that,
you know, opportunity for people to be able to kind of be part of
that thought world, right? That frame of thought.
If that if that I hope that answers and stare and it's
actually Iranians I think it's a great answer and I think really
when we talk about a community we're not really talk.
I wasn't at least talking about instituting the halacha of the
rambam because even Our on, you know, mentions that if you're a
community that follows our album, you shouldn't you
shouldn't stop yet. So so it's not really about
that. It's really about the
philosophy. It's really about the Outlook
because fine today that there are communities that adopt a lot
of let's say practices that are kind of shaky or a little bit
superstitious not from the classical tradition.
So yeah that's really where I want to understand.
How do we we kind of because it feels like almost he was
alluding to Bentley. Was alluding to is that there is
kind of like a hesitant hesitation because people feel
like you know by by introducing my monody in like philosophy
living your kind of attacking you know, the traditional
modern. Yeah.
So now I honestly as far as that's concerned, I have to say,
look to Guru me finish, right? You can't be afraid.
You have to, you have to recognize that and that's one of
the Reasons. Also, I love reading on a bomb
bomb, bomb wasn't afraid bottom set it, like it was, he didn't
care, you know, he was straight out.
So first of all, I think the self-consciousness that you are
describing, right about how it is that people will respond the
way that people that is, is helped by greater learning.
Right? So the more that one, learns and
understands that this is this is the way that things should be
and why? It has drawn reinforcement for
it, you can't see another way. I mean, you can't even allow
yourself to really be able to engage in.
And not only do not you recognize how serious it is.
To do an alternative right to behave in the alternative and
how much it shouldn't be done right now or, you know, and
that's truth. And so what we need, first of
all, is a lot of a lot more learning.
Which again I don't mean to plug it but I'm grateful and proud of
the hubba-wha that it's their right and that people use it.
It and that it's that it's available and it does provide a
good framework, but you also need to consider who it is that
you're hiring or who it is that you're asking Fleet, right?
So, so it requires leadership and requires strong leadership
and, and brave and courageous leadership.
But it also has to come that bravery and courage has to come
from very well. Rooted strong old principles and
that's one of the things that we do with the Harbour.
We point to the sources. It's not just, oh, this is, you
know, one some idea where we want to be rational.
We ought to be rational rational is overrated.
Obviously, I'll tell you, it's not about rationality because
rationale is he fails in many areas?
It just doesn't want, you know, there's certain things that
rationality doesn't function for in the world but it's not about
that. It's about what is our dentist?
What is our way in Toronto? And our way is old.
It is old. It is, it is populated by some
of the greatest hakama mold time and it Something we should be
proud of not afraid of something.
We should be proud of. We should know, is well-founded
it's not new, it's not some new way of ideas that were coming
in. Putting out, because we want to
be modern, has nothing to do with that.
It's old, it's well-established, populated by great, great minds
and very courageous leaders. And we are simply part of that
tradition. And we're forwarding a
traditional one has to be proud of that.
And if one is not proud of it, one is self-conscious about it.
Well, then they're not ready. You're not ready and they need
to learn more, right? So how do you feel about, you
know what, people? Some people say about the Derek
of our embalmer, we see there are some pockets of my monody
and kind of communities. Where people say, you know, it's
very it seems kind of elitist or like Ivory Tower Judaism, where
it's not, it's not kiru oriented and so on.
You know, do you ever hear those kind of arguments?
I do hear those kinds of arguments.
And you find them to be. I find them to be ill placed.
Okay, great. I find them to be ill placed
because first of all, I don't know, you know, key roof?
I don't know, I'm not a cure of person.
I mean, Baruch Hashem, I'm grateful that I've had this a
hoot to to bring people closer to Toronto to vote.
I mean, that I'm not afraid to say I'm grateful that that's
been part of my life and please God, I, you know, I hope to be
able to do that in my life. So whether You know, there's a,
the country live, you know, people to bring people closer.
I don't know who's not, who she, why should we not do that?
To me, is part of its part of the whole thing.
The Cure of movement, I'm not. I mean, I'm familiar with, but
it's not my, it's not my, it's not in my circle, I'm not
educated in that movement and Norm.
I trained in that movement and it's not, it's just not my, I'm
not, I'm not familiar with it. In terms of my own practice in
my own, my own way. I mean II.
So that's all. I'll say about that.
I so I don't want to speak about something that I'm not you know
personally aware of and properly educated him but to say that
Harem bombs approach is not opened and to keep you know to
Bringing people closed I think that's also a it's either a
failure in scholarship and and literacy and hot on bombs
writings or it is maybe an elitist reading of Autobahn.
It is true that harm bomb does hold a A high bar, right?
In other words, that there are various levels that a person can
achieve. It does her mom does right that?
Yeah, I mean that there's but again, those levels are valuable
and important because if we just expect that no matter what we
do, we are at the same space With God all the time, it also
cheapens the relationship that we have with God the Pete that's
a that's part that's something that people don't take into
consideration. There's another side of that
coin. Yeah.
And You know. So, so I think that there are
many, many entry points to approaching uncle those
powerful. And her mom talks about
dedicated to Shiva right there are Pathways to tissue back and
he says there are many Pathways and he'll write me directly at
issue among the pathways of tissue bar this and among the
pathways are of tissue by this. He writes in more than one other
places other than him called tissue box.
You know, he says this is me Dirk at issue, Bahu, right?
This is something that we do as a way of getting close.
It goes from. So he writes that many things
that were supposed to do should do could do in order to be able
to engage with other. I mean, there's a yeah, I mean,
so there's a hunter Bond made made concessions as well.
Yeah, I mean, he he, he writes in the machine in Toda that we
have to do the Hazara, right. And I'm Eda, and he writes in
the tissue by that. They didn't do the hospital
because nobody was answering a man.
And so he took that out, right? Because not covered ice, talk
about the colors, but we will do that, right?
Okay. Let's could you imagine, you
know, I mean, Ian today that's been doing how they're all the
time and all of a sudden said, you know, something people are
entering, what is that? You know, I could imagine all
kinds of, you know, drama and and political upheaval happening
as a result of social. So, you know, again, it's it may
not be what it is, that people are In the used to.
But I don't think that it's true that on bomb is not that in
studying his his his presentation of Torah to us that
there is there some kind of law you know Ivory Tower in which
the total has held that you know, only the select few are
able to achieve that's just patently false Well said I'll
say one thing. I will say another thing, you
know, in this photo ID in this photo ID certainly at least the
Middle Easterns for the mini hug there.
Is it when we take this Hypnotoad, I out of the house on
there. We have the Romani in which are
the bells, right? The silver, you know, the silver
and we usually will give that to a child.
A lot of times give that to a child to be able to Crown this
effort aura. And and there's a rulers like an
unspoken rule, right? That the person who's holding
the sephiroth Torah is not allowed to lower their say, fair
to the child, so the child could put their ammonium on the
cirfairy. You have to lift the child up to
the surface so that they can put the ceremony when the Torah.
And that is an analogy in general, right?
We don't lower the breed. We don't lower the Torah to
somebody who's not yet able to reach it.
Either lift them up right we give them boosts right and give
them. Give them steps tools to be able
to get there or we wait till they grow to the point that
they're able to do it but we don't lower it in order to be
able to get to the people. And that's a very important
principle that people forget. And sometimes I'm concerned that
people do that in their eagerness to be able to give
people connection. They lower these bars right?
They lower the values in order to be able to have have access
rather than assisting, an escorting towards the The higher
level that people can get to and we don't want to do that.
We don't want to cheapen it that way.
Excellent point we want to also, ask and this question is
targeted more for teenagers when we're going to ask this
question. For teenagers today that are
surrounded. I would say maybe with you no
wool culture that focuses on the individual Miiverse.
We, you know, there's How do we? Properly present Torah to
teenagers that are accustomed and being trained.
And kind of kind of being surrounded with this very
Miiverse, we individualistic, you know, kind of society that
that's that's that's surrounding them.
How do we how do we, how do we go about that?
Right. So, I mean, as I understand your
question, you know, there is an assumption in your question.
If I understand you correctly. And that is that the me is
problematic. And I reject that, I don't think
that the me is that all problematic.
The only time that the me is problematic is when the me is
void of recognizing that the nature of an individual.
Certainly a human individual is by definition socialistic,
right. In other words, it is a socially
inclined existence. So the best line for this the
most pithy succinct clear line for this as healer as I can.
And it's one of honestly it's one of my favorite lines.
In Fazal which is, you know, that's just me.
And he lived as a kid was was one who spoke about this in
various ways, right? This was very much something
that he'll has a kin held and that is that he said very
famously to the point that it's almost cliche but it should
never get to be that because it's much deeper and profound.
People may give it credit for and and that is he in a melee
melee, right? If I am not going to be for me,
which means if I'm not going to live my life, Life.
If I'm not going to take care of me, if I'm not going to be me as
I am, then who will. And what he's saying?
Is that nobody will write, it's just will not happen.
And if we disregard that we are disregarding a fundamental
principle in table right next week in parishad kadosh.
When we know how I won't get to see.
We're going to read the very famous pursue have started akka.
Come Oka. And the end of it.
And that's really it's a, it's an odd passuk because if the, if
the Torah wanted to Simply tell us to love others than it should
have simply said that I have done a NASA and he a shit.
No, the referent is komaki. You have to love others as you
love you. Which is expecting that there is
this value of loving oneself, right?
And then / kappahd, second paragraph, people are reading
per cow but now between Pairs are and show what we're likely
in the second period, right? There's two things.
And yeah mum on, Hover ha ha V Valeo.
It's always the Reverend, the Reverend is always the cell and
there is always an expectation that there is going to be a love
of self and if one does not have a love of self and I and what I
mean by that is the genuine self that one is that a kadosh Baruch
created you to be, which is unique Right now goes, well, who
didn't create cookie cutter people?
Because those one, who created absolutely Unique Individuals
and that is part of the expression of the who the Beret,
right? The fact that a shame is it had
his Creations. The one ubiquitous stamp on
creation is the unique individuality of creation.
You don't have to leaves on a tree not to snowflakes, not
fingerprints, all of that right we see identical twins and we
freaked out because we can't imagine that there's two people.
That look the same. It's impossible for us to
absorb. So the fact that the modern
culture is moving into a very heavy, me identity is not a is
not a necessarily necessarily - it is a very important
development because in Western Society we went from being a
very very rigid communal system, right?
I encourage people to read And Erich fromm's, book Escape from
freedom in the u.s. called escape from freedom.
In the in the UK is called fear free and where he developed, he
shows the development of Western Society, from a very Collective
kind of society where everybody had their place within the
society and everybody knew their, their, their connection
to the broader fabric of society into a very individualistic
capitalistic move. Now, the truth of the matter is,
is that I quoted only one half of he Statement.
All right, the second half of he little statement is Akshay
neela. It's me money.
And then, I didn't say shannaenealy, right exemption,
he lets me when I am only for myself, right?
When I am by myself. Well, then what am I right?
I'm feeling to recognize that I as an individual exist in in
intricate connection with the rest of society.
So there are various aspects of self and one of the aspects of
Elf is in Torah, right? And this is wonderful show of
the balance of torahs recognition of the individual
within the collective and one should not shift for the other.
Yeah, it's like you know the whole of shovel with everybody,
call everybody agrees, there's a whole discussion, the gemara,
what it, how do you celebrate, how do you spend the day of
Shavuot? And, you know, some say, a cool,
a shame Corolla so on and so forth.
And everybody agrees that on Shavuot you need to have left
him You have you need to have you time right on someone the
whole goes together, I'm gonna get into it right now, you can
look it up but that's that's a major issue.
It says that when the Haka meme would complete, a sugiyama s
also be a time of circuit or they would complete their
learning. They would have celebrations on
for themselves rights as a POC, had enough sure he would say,
right? He would say oh I'm so happy,
you're people say that. I've completed my study goes, if
it wasn't for my study, come on your sake up.
You got how many Jose are there? Is Average Joes are there out in
the street. Yeah, so there's these
celebrations of individuality that are kadosh Baruch hu
imprinted in all of us that we must actualize and for a very
long time, in Western society, and it still goes in eastern
Society, right? But for a very long time, in
Western Society, the individual was erased to a very high
degree. So, of course, any time the
individual raises his or her head, there is an accusation.
Ation of selfishness because people don't necessarily know
how to be themselves and not be selfish, right?
So that's the difficult Edge, right?
And the reality is that if a person is working on achieving
oneself, sometimes your needs to be private time for that.
And sometimes they need to be able to pull away from the clown
in order to be able to search. Now, that's why he put the
duties of thing, right? The casino as he do, brought
that Barack Obama, it's the same thing.
On a bottom rights in the marina bull cream that there is a
precious, he called its money Mia.
Caribe, the most precious times are the times when you're alone.
And you can just consider your life.
Your thought will you are, what are your struggles?
And that's so I think that in society, especially with the
younger generation, we're seeing a pendulum swing.
And yes, the pendulum is swinging to an extreme.
There's no question about it but again, how Time Bomb writes that
as well and hold their own sometimes, in order to be able
to find balance in the middle, we moved to the extremes before
were able to calibrate it and everybody hates it right there.
Looking at it because the older generation is like we were
Selfless, we gave ourselves we Supply.
We put until we were all part of communities.
We are part of The Sisterhood. We are part of God's creation,
what? Yeah, you're right.
Those are wonderful things and they should continue.
But right now, we're looking at the he'd put the dude, right?
There's a lot of that going on and it's true that the society
can't run. If everybody's going to be
spending a bunch of time, on their own, you know, doing their
own thing, and the Pendulum will swing back, because not
sustainable. It's just not sustainable, but
II don't think it's evil. He's other words it gets to a
very bad place and the truth of the matter is the source of evil
is in isolation, right in not sensing empathy and Care in the
need to be able to support and embrace those around us in love
and compassion and societal building.
Make no mistake. I don't want anybody to think
that I'm not recognizing those values.
What we need to do is we need to hear the teaching of he'll as a
king. And the first is very clear him
in a melee melee, if I do not achieve who it is, that I am and
I do not fight for my own individual life and existence,
as I am uniquely as a kadosh Baruch who created me, then
really ain't nobody gonna do that, nobody has the ability to
do that because you cannot control other people, right?
We are we have a hard enough time trying to control ourselves
and that's ultimately a major goal and on the back of that.
Okay, I need to answer me. Money.
But if I don't recognize and I'm a social animal those about who
created me with in a fabric of society and I need to learn how
it is that I contribute of myself, my unique self to that
Society I don't exist and they will find that they yearn for
that connection, right? So so they will have all kinds
of connections that work for them on a superficial level.
But at the end of the day, there's nothing that replaces
genuine real human connection and that that will then We need
certain things to happen. We need people to be able to
compromise aspects of their self, in order to be able to do
that. And people are fighting so hard
to have themselves right now, that they're not yet ready to be
able to compromise. So, to answer your question,
after all of that, I would certainly speak to them about
the value of self and Torah because that speaking their
language and if you can speak the first half of helium, has a
kid into them, you can then speak the second half of him as
a kid too, but if you don't Recognize the reality and truth
of the first half. You will not be able to get in
because that's what they're focusing on right now.
Right there, meditating on the Main and mealy mealy, and that's
perhaps the motto of the generation.
So if you can't expound upon that, from a Torah perspective,
the chenille Ox Mema and he will never get a seat at the table.
That's how I would suggest very, very well said.
And the last point, I want to get into is the Hub Aurora
because to us, it's such a valuable tool.
I want to know. We want to know what it is.
That inspired you to start such a movement, why was it
necessary? And also, where do you see it
in, you know, five ten years? What is your goal?
Well, I certainly cannot take all the credit for it because it
wasn't mine. If it was left up to me would
never happen. I've always, I mean, over the
years my students have Me, what do we read?
What do we learn in order to be able to get the perspective that
you have robbed, right? They would ask me, like, well
how do we, how do we, why do you have to just read?
There's a lot to read and lots of know, a lot to, you know,
there's a lot of things and we disagree that and during covid
my dear friend and tamid Sinha kind, Said, you know, we could
do this. This is way we can do it.
And yeah, I mean, it was just the right time because during
covid everybody was online and I tried to do things online before
covid. I wanted to very very much do
them before but just people didn't even know what Zoom was.
You know? They they no idea you know had a
kind of and if they did they you know it wasn't something that
was easy. So we took advantage of that and
so I was kind of able to provide the framework for it and the you
know, the curriculum for It and kind of what is it wanted to
teach and Cinna, just amazingly as he is, you know, in all that
he does just amazingly facilitated your to me just he's
he's blessed with that tremendously.
So I'm very grateful to him for that.
What ended up happening is result.
So the goal you know was to be able to put out this teaching
and have people you know, have an ability to learn but what
ended up happening to my great delight and surprise is that it
ended up creating a virtual community.
All right, so thankfully we're in 26 countries.
Now the Cobra and when I go around and I and I speak and I
was just recently in Great Neck and I met you guys and I was in
New York, I was in Chicago. I was recently in Seattle in La.
I'm going back to Mexico City in May thankfully everywhere I go
people come up to me and say they're members of the Hubble
Rock. And what it has done is created
a virtual community of people who who, who are are drawn to
who feel at home in this approach to Torah which I've
said already. This is very old.
You know, we're doing it in a very new and modern way but it's
Only very old and it's very authentic.
So that has been a delight, you know, I'm so glad and grateful
that there is, you know, I when I was growing up and when I was
going through my learning, I felt very alone.
You know, with regards to it was very it was a handful of people
that I knew were like-minded and that was it.
But this is giving it an. It's facilitated people that
otherwise were isolated to really connect with each other
and feel that they are part of a greater community and that gives
energy Gee, you know, if nothing else, it gives energy, you know,
to people, and it gives a central element of it that, you
know, I think it's helpful and five years I have no idea.
I'm always hesitant when people ask me what I think is going to
be in five years, because I'm going to be 48 years old, which
is not 80 years old, but I've lived enough five year Cycles.
My life to know that five years A lot can happen in five years.
So I have no idea what will be in five years.
What do I hope also? I'm afraid to dream too small.
I don't want to, I don't want to do that either.
But, you know, I do hope that it'll grow that will be able to
have perhaps, you know, centers. You know, visits the online
thing is great but I hope they'll be physical centers
because like I said, the physical connections between
people is very valuable, we're going to be opening here, a bit
me, Josh in London, there's another shame in the
not-too-distant future for the camera and the S&P.
So I'm very excited about that but I just you know whom Allah
has seen the goal is to You know, to be able to allow to
facilitate people to be able to do a kadosh Baruch who as much
as they can. And if we can help with that,
then he named October. And however it isn't manifested
manifest. So I encourage people to be able
to take part in it, if they can and to share it.
But yeah, I mean, I just hope that it's it goes my refined
It's really an amazing thing and we benefit from it a lot and
great. We want to thank you so much for
all that you do and your wisdom, your courage.
We really look up to you. And we hope only good things for
yourself in the hubba-wha and hopefully we can do this again.
One day, she should be, she Flynn was a her Lon.
It means so much to me to hear that and it's a tremendous
encouragement. And I, you know, please got a,
you know, a little bit of what you said I could hope to, you
know, to fill But I'm very grateful for it and please God
will be able to continue to do it.
Thank you so much. Yeah, what's up, what's up?
All the best. What up, what up?
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