1 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:10,240 Welcome to Judaism Demystified, a podcast for the perplexed. 2 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:12,560 We are joined by Rabbi Michael Hatton. 3 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,560 Rabbi Hatton is a Master Teacher of Tanakh at the Partis 4 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:19,640 Institute of Jewish Studies in Jerusalem and serves as a 5 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,040 director of the Bait Me Josh for the Party Center for Jewish 6 00:00:23,080 --> 00:00:25,480 Educators. He started for rabbinic 7 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:29,480 coordination at Ushivatar Etzion and holds a professional degree 8 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:31,840 in architecture from the University of Toronto. 9 00:00:32,729 --> 00:00:35,010 Michael is the author of Passages, Text and 10 00:00:35,010 --> 00:00:39,050 Transformation in the Parsha and a number of series on the Israel 11 00:00:39,050 --> 00:00:42,930 Koshitsky Virtual Bait Me Josh. He has served as Scholar in 12 00:00:42,930 --> 00:00:46,530 Residence in many communities in North America and Europe and 13 00:00:46,530 --> 00:00:49,490 lives in Alon Chevut with his wife Rifka and their five 14 00:00:49,490 --> 00:00:52,050 children. Without further ado, Rabbi 15 00:00:52,050 --> 00:01:02,260 Hatton, thank you for joining the Judaism Demystified podcast. 16 00:01:02,990 --> 00:01:05,230 So, Rabbi Haddon, it's a pleasure to have you on. 17 00:01:05,230 --> 00:01:09,790 We're huge fans and we'd like to 1st hear a little bit about you 18 00:01:10,430 --> 00:01:14,510 and how you got involved with this amazing series on on 19 00:01:14,510 --> 00:01:16,870 Yoshua. Thank you. 20 00:01:17,790 --> 00:01:22,990 I studied at the Ishibat Harvezion in my youth when I 21 00:01:22,990 --> 00:01:26,510 made aliyah with my wife. It's actually been exactly 25 22 00:01:26,510 --> 00:01:27,990 years. I went back to the Ishiba. 23 00:01:28,830 --> 00:01:34,950 I learned in color for Smifa. And the Yeshiva has a very 24 00:01:34,950 --> 00:01:38,430 special approach in general to Talmu Torah. 25 00:01:39,590 --> 00:01:46,390 It is incisive, it is insightful, it is rational, it's 26 00:01:46,390 --> 00:01:51,110 careful, and it includes a broad range of texts. 27 00:01:51,150 --> 00:01:53,870 It's obviously focused on Kamara, but there's also a lot 28 00:01:53,870 --> 00:01:57,070 of attention given to Tana and given to Halaka. 29 00:01:57,870 --> 00:02:00,830 And I really think that it was in the Yeshiva and my exposure 30 00:02:00,830 --> 00:02:06,350 to certain Rabaim that very much began to shape my own approach 31 00:02:06,350 --> 00:02:10,910 to Tana. And since leaving the yeshiva 32 00:02:10,910 --> 00:02:14,350 and being involved in the world of Jewish education, I have 33 00:02:14,350 --> 00:02:17,310 taken that with me and and hopefully developed it in a good 34 00:02:17,310 --> 00:02:20,710 direction. Out of curiosity, you know, I 35 00:02:20,710 --> 00:02:22,590 have one son, he's two years old. 36 00:02:23,030 --> 00:02:24,630 And I dream for him to go to Hartzio. 37 00:02:24,630 --> 00:02:26,350 No, I'm serious. I dream for him to go. 38 00:02:26,790 --> 00:02:28,590 So I'm kind of just doing my own little research here. 39 00:02:28,590 --> 00:02:33,350 But I'm just wondering the the Tanaka, it's so everyone knows 40 00:02:33,350 --> 00:02:35,470 about Hartzio and and it's approached the Tanaka and you 41 00:02:35,470 --> 00:02:39,310 know the the the unique style that it employs. 42 00:02:39,830 --> 00:02:43,750 I wonder when it comes to Gamara, is there anything 43 00:02:43,750 --> 00:02:47,270 different about the way Hartzio learns Gamara from how you would 44 00:02:47,310 --> 00:02:50,590 maybe consider different types of the more mainstream style? 45 00:02:50,670 --> 00:02:55,310 I'm just wondering. The Shiva has a special there a 46 00:02:55,310 --> 00:02:57,510 special way of learning and Kamara as well. 47 00:02:58,230 --> 00:03:00,830 I think there is overlap actually in terms of you know, I 48 00:03:00,830 --> 00:03:03,270 have to knock his approach and hug my raz approached. 49 00:03:04,550 --> 00:03:07,670 So the short answer is yes, definitely has an approach. 50 00:03:08,230 --> 00:03:10,870 OK, so I'll look at. So there's. 51 00:03:10,910 --> 00:03:12,150 OK, Cool. Very cool. 52 00:03:12,270 --> 00:03:14,990 The sad. So even though you know my my 53 00:03:14,990 --> 00:03:18,870 years in Shiva, really, you know, formally ended a long time 54 00:03:18,870 --> 00:03:21,790 ago, I feel like I've taken what I've. 55 00:03:22,230 --> 00:03:25,470 What I've learned there and taken it forward to the other 56 00:03:25,470 --> 00:03:28,910 places that I've gone to. Fantastic. 57 00:03:28,950 --> 00:03:33,550 Amazing. So each book in Tanaka carries 58 00:03:33,550 --> 00:03:37,550 an overarching theme or message. If you were to select a main 59 00:03:37,550 --> 00:03:40,510 theme for the Book of Yoshua, what would it be? 60 00:03:40,710 --> 00:03:43,390 Additionally, could you provide examples from the text that 61 00:03:43,390 --> 00:03:47,270 demonstrates this theme? Okay, that's a that's a big 62 00:03:47,270 --> 00:03:50,550 question. So I'm going to try and address 63 00:03:50,550 --> 00:03:52,710 it by mentioning a couple of points. 64 00:03:53,310 --> 00:03:57,910 I think Safer Yohoshua fundamentally is about a theme 65 00:03:57,910 --> 00:04:04,150 of succession, which is to say, obviously Moshe is no more and 66 00:04:04,150 --> 00:04:07,670 Yohoshua now has to step into that leadership role. 67 00:04:08,390 --> 00:04:11,870 And whenever we have a succession there are going to be 68 00:04:11,870 --> 00:04:14,790 challenges. Some of those challenges will be 69 00:04:14,790 --> 00:04:17,950 foreseen. Many of them will be unforeseen. 70 00:04:18,430 --> 00:04:21,709 That's true of Yohoshua stepping into the role of Moshe. 71 00:04:22,470 --> 00:04:25,270 It's true of the people of Israel entering the land. 72 00:04:26,390 --> 00:04:29,630 It's true of Khalev. We meet him in the book. 73 00:04:29,910 --> 00:04:33,910 He makes a cameo appearance and will meet his daughter Aksa, who 74 00:04:33,910 --> 00:04:38,110 in some way will be succeeding him, along with her new husband 75 00:04:38,110 --> 00:04:42,070 Otniel Benknaz, who will ultimately succeed Yohoshua. 76 00:04:42,630 --> 00:04:45,310 So I think it's fair to say that it's a theme. 77 00:04:46,150 --> 00:04:48,830 Unless I said whenever we have succession, that means you're 78 00:04:48,830 --> 00:04:54,070 confronting challenges, you're overcoming failures, setbacks. 79 00:04:54,910 --> 00:04:58,310 Sometimes there are ghosts from the past that you have to face 80 00:04:58,310 --> 00:05:01,150 down. And maybe most importantly, and 81 00:05:01,150 --> 00:05:04,870 this is a related theme but very much tied in with the succession 82 00:05:05,190 --> 00:05:09,030 is a theme of taking initiative that's safe for Yohoshua. 83 00:05:09,270 --> 00:05:13,390 Yohoshua, as as a leader, is a man who takes initiative. 84 00:05:14,010 --> 00:05:16,970 And he's got to bring the people into the land and they have to 85 00:05:16,970 --> 00:05:20,210 take initiative as well. When I say taking initiative, 86 00:05:20,210 --> 00:05:23,450 what I mean is my faith is in God. 87 00:05:24,170 --> 00:05:29,130 I trust in Hashem's assurance, but I actually have to do the 88 00:05:29,130 --> 00:05:33,850 planning and I have to do the hard work in order to create the 89 00:05:33,850 --> 00:05:36,250 success. So I'm I'm almost tempted to say 90 00:05:36,450 --> 00:05:39,170 succession. Yeah, success, because they're 91 00:05:39,170 --> 00:05:42,410 sort of intertwined in this particular book. 92 00:05:44,100 --> 00:05:46,940 If I were to give an example, is that like appropriate? 93 00:05:48,060 --> 00:05:50,620 OK, so if I were to give an example of this theme in the 94 00:05:50,620 --> 00:05:56,820 book, if we follow the course of the warfare, the battles, it's 95 00:05:56,820 --> 00:06:01,860 absolutely clear to me that the people Yohoshua are taking more 96 00:06:01,860 --> 00:06:04,500 initiative as those battles progress. 97 00:06:05,060 --> 00:06:09,540 And Hashem is, as it were, stepping into the background in 98 00:06:09,540 --> 00:06:12,100 order to allow that to happen. So for instance. 99 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:16,760 The first battle against Urifo against Jericho, Empiric Vov, 100 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,280 Chapter 6. Basically, Hashem is responsible 101 00:06:20,280 --> 00:06:23,880 for the victory. All you have to do is follow the 102 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:28,520 iron, follow the arc, circle the city sound, the chauffeur rot 103 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:30,520 and the walls will come tumbling down. 104 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,920 There's no initiative that the people are really taking in 105 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:38,520 terms of warfare, except following Hashem's lead, the 106 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,320 next series of battles, which is against. 107 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,800 The Southern kings, they're going to have to take more 108 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:46,520 initiative. And they do. 109 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,840 And when God intervenes in the story, it will only be when 110 00:06:50,840 --> 00:06:54,600 those kings are in retreat. But the battle itself is 111 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:58,400 actually fought by the Naysail. And when they when they battle, 112 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:02,560 the Northern Kings and Perricade Oliphant, Chapter 11, Hashem as 113 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,160 it were, will retreat completely into the background. 114 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:10,040 So the victory will be theirs and the battle will be won by 115 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,920 the Naysail. So on the one hand, it's it's 116 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,560 sort of a doubleedged sword, because as soon as we have 117 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,840 triumph and success, which is a function of our own efforts, the 118 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:22,880 Torah tells us there's always a danger. 119 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:25,720 Kohiva otsemia dia salia Takhail has it. 120 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:29,600 I'm responsible for my success. No, the Torah says don't forget 121 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,320 hashemma lo quefa who ha notain the hako aklaso trial. 122 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,950 God gives us the strength. In order to succeed, but 123 00:07:36,950 --> 00:07:40,630 embedded in, there is some sort of an idea that we have to take. 124 00:07:40,630 --> 00:07:46,030 The initiative, so it's interesting, so it didn't happen 125 00:07:46,030 --> 00:07:51,910 like in one swoop, but in in a sense like Yoshua and Hashem are 126 00:07:51,910 --> 00:07:56,310 sort of kind of slowly, slowly allowing that reality to unfold, 127 00:07:56,510 --> 00:07:58,870 battle for battle for battle, more and more and more 128 00:07:58,870 --> 00:08:04,390 initiative, kind of gently allowing that that reality to to 129 00:08:04,390 --> 00:08:09,050 come in. Listen, you are, you know, you 130 00:08:09,050 --> 00:08:11,770 are lovers of Rumbum, so I would say it's following. 131 00:08:11,770 --> 00:08:15,610 It's following a rumba model, which is to say that Hashem 132 00:08:15,610 --> 00:08:19,570 moves us in a particular direction incrementally, because 133 00:08:19,570 --> 00:08:25,090 to try and transform in a single swoop often will be unsuccessful 134 00:08:25,090 --> 00:08:28,130 and sometimes destructive. So, but they used to ill, you 135 00:08:28,130 --> 00:08:30,690 know, and his version of it have to be in the meat bar for 40 136 00:08:30,690 --> 00:08:32,809 years. Because that's going to be their 137 00:08:32,809 --> 00:08:37,289 opportunity to grow into the role of actually entering the 138 00:08:37,289 --> 00:08:41,929 land, embracing their destiny, taking the initiative and being 139 00:08:41,929 --> 00:08:45,730 successful. Amazing. 140 00:08:45,810 --> 00:08:52,170 OK, so we want to talk about the beginning parts of Ushua 141 00:08:52,170 --> 00:08:54,290 regarding the sending of the spies. 142 00:08:54,690 --> 00:08:58,090 The Ushua's decision to send the spies to send spies to the land 143 00:08:58,410 --> 00:09:00,890 before their conquest might surprise some. 144 00:09:01,230 --> 00:09:04,510 Given the past failure of the spies in the Book of Bhami Bar, 145 00:09:04,910 --> 00:09:07,470 could you explain Ushua's rationale behind sending the 146 00:09:07,470 --> 00:09:10,550 spies? What comparisons and contrasts 147 00:09:10,550 --> 00:09:14,630 can we draw between the earlier account of most most spies and 148 00:09:14,630 --> 00:09:17,470 the mission led by Ushua? And how did these differences 149 00:09:17,670 --> 00:09:21,510 help the second mission avoid the pitfalls faced by the spies 150 00:09:21,750 --> 00:09:25,110 in the Book of Numbers? Was Rakhav's and also was 151 00:09:25,110 --> 00:09:27,910 Rakhav's involvement part of the plan from the outset? 152 00:09:29,730 --> 00:09:32,090 OK, that's a great series of questions. 153 00:09:32,290 --> 00:09:36,330 I'll just begin by pointing out that Yohoshua was part of the 154 00:09:36,330 --> 00:09:39,610 original mission. He was one of those 12 spies. 155 00:09:39,890 --> 00:09:44,530 So that is an important point in terms of reflecting upon how he 156 00:09:44,530 --> 00:09:46,250 chooses to do things differently. 157 00:09:46,850 --> 00:09:49,570 Remember that Moshe spies, There were twelve of them. 158 00:09:49,970 --> 00:09:53,730 The Torah described them as Rashe Venesa Al Hema. 159 00:09:53,970 --> 00:09:58,450 They were leaders of the people. There was a public send off when 160 00:09:58,450 --> 00:10:02,050 they returned. They return to Moshe a Haron and 161 00:10:02,050 --> 00:10:05,850 call a dot, Benesweil, all of the people of Israel with their 162 00:10:05,850 --> 00:10:08,850 report. Now that's a dangerous move 163 00:10:09,410 --> 00:10:14,090 because if they return with a negative report, Moshe will not 164 00:10:14,090 --> 00:10:17,730 be able to do damage control because it's already out there 165 00:10:17,930 --> 00:10:20,010 and all the people of Israel know about it. 166 00:10:20,130 --> 00:10:21,930 And that's precisely what happens. 167 00:10:22,170 --> 00:10:25,010 The people lose the resolve. They lose their faith. 168 00:10:25,470 --> 00:10:28,870 And they say we cannot possibly enter the land and be 169 00:10:28,870 --> 00:10:32,390 successful. I'll point out Yohoshua spies. 170 00:10:33,310 --> 00:10:36,150 There were only two of them. It's a small group. 171 00:10:36,670 --> 00:10:38,390 We'll never find out their names. 172 00:10:38,870 --> 00:10:43,550 They remain anonymous. Their mission is a limited 173 00:10:43,550 --> 00:10:48,070 mission to spy out our it's the ETI reho, but they really only 174 00:10:48,070 --> 00:10:51,430 go to U reho. And I would argue, really what 175 00:10:51,430 --> 00:10:55,870 they're trying to ascertain is what is the mood of the people 176 00:10:56,150 --> 00:10:59,390 on the eve of the Israelite entry into the land? 177 00:10:59,390 --> 00:11:02,430 And that would explain, by the way, this is a question, Okay 178 00:11:02,750 --> 00:11:05,910 Did they go to Rahav intentionally? 179 00:11:06,230 --> 00:11:09,510 Was that going to be their base of operations or was it a 180 00:11:09,630 --> 00:11:13,350 coincidence that's where they ended up and the story unfolded 181 00:11:13,350 --> 00:11:15,230 from there. So I'd like to argue that 182 00:11:15,230 --> 00:11:18,430 Yohoshua actually planned to send them there very 183 00:11:18,430 --> 00:11:21,590 deliberately. Number one, because it affords 184 00:11:21,590 --> 00:11:25,110 them anonymity. You go to the House of a harlot, 185 00:11:25,350 --> 00:11:27,750 people are not going to be asking too many questions. 186 00:11:28,150 --> 00:11:30,550 Nobody's going to be revealing their identity. 187 00:11:31,070 --> 00:11:34,630 And there's probably also a lot of intelligence they that that 188 00:11:34,630 --> 00:11:38,950 they can actually acquire in that place because people talk. 189 00:11:39,630 --> 00:11:42,350 There's a whole bunch of different individuals that 190 00:11:42,350 --> 00:11:46,670 probably pass through there and if they are listening carefully, 191 00:11:47,110 --> 00:11:50,650 they can find out an awful lot. Which is precisely what happens, 192 00:11:50,650 --> 00:11:53,930 because when Rahab reports on the mood of the people, she 193 00:11:53,930 --> 00:11:57,130 makes it very clear we have lost our spirit, we've lost our 194 00:11:57,130 --> 00:11:59,690 resolve. So that's what they needed to 195 00:11:59,690 --> 00:12:03,250 hear. And here's sort of like the most 196 00:12:03,250 --> 00:12:05,250 striking contrast of all, I would say. 197 00:12:05,650 --> 00:12:09,090 Moshe spies spy out the land for 40 days. 198 00:12:09,650 --> 00:12:14,250 They go from north to South. They obviously encounter 199 00:12:14,250 --> 00:12:17,270 Canaanites. And in spite of that, we don't 200 00:12:17,390 --> 00:12:21,070 explicitly hear of them ever being threatened. 201 00:12:21,590 --> 00:12:23,670 Now in the Mead rush, it does come out rush. 202 00:12:23,670 --> 00:12:28,470 He mentions in Mead rush where the spies are sort of regarded 203 00:12:28,470 --> 00:12:31,350 as being, you know, ants in the vineyards in the eyes of the 204 00:12:31,350 --> 00:12:33,830 Canaanites. But in terms of the shuts, at 205 00:12:33,830 --> 00:12:40,550 least we don't hear about any sort of threatening, any any 206 00:12:40,550 --> 00:12:43,910 sort of threatening episodes during the course of their 207 00:12:43,950 --> 00:12:46,640 mission. And in spite of that, they come 208 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:51,640 back with this absolute sense that we cannot possibly succeed 209 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:56,240 in entering the land, right? Lo nukhala allot al haam kihazak 210 00:12:56,240 --> 00:13:01,520 ho mimen take the spies of Yahushua, who basically are like 211 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:05,120 one step away from being captured and probably executed. 212 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,280 And yet, when they return to Yahushua, they don't even 213 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,500 mention that. What do they say? 214 00:13:10,660 --> 00:13:13,580 Kinatan, Hashem, BIA de Nueta, Aretz. 215 00:13:13,580 --> 00:13:16,620 God has given us the land and they've all melted away. 216 00:13:17,460 --> 00:13:20,300 So how do we interpret that? I would say what that really 217 00:13:20,300 --> 00:13:24,820 points to is the transformation that the people of Israel have 218 00:13:24,820 --> 00:13:28,860 undergone during the course of the 40 years in the meat bar. 219 00:13:29,500 --> 00:13:34,180 They now have the confidence, the selfconfidence, the trust in 220 00:13:34,180 --> 00:13:39,500 Hashem that they can succeed and even when they are confronted. 221 00:13:39,780 --> 00:13:44,900 With threats or challenges, they will not be derailed and they'll 222 00:13:44,900 --> 00:13:49,180 say we can do this. Most of spies between you and 223 00:13:49,180 --> 00:13:54,020 me, are basically freed slaves. They don't have that same kind 224 00:13:54,060 --> 00:13:58,820 of emotional wherewithal, that same kind of psychological 225 00:13:58,820 --> 00:14:03,740 strength, and as soon as anything emerges which is a 226 00:14:03,740 --> 00:14:06,780 threat, then they immediately lose resolve. 227 00:14:07,510 --> 00:14:11,270 There's no way we can possibly possibly succeed, so I would say 228 00:14:11,430 --> 00:14:16,230 Yoshu is very careful to not repeat the mistakes of the past. 229 00:14:16,550 --> 00:14:20,310 When those two spies return, they report exclusively to him 230 00:14:20,710 --> 00:14:24,950 and to no one else, and then he can decide how to proceed based 231 00:14:24,950 --> 00:14:31,230 on the report that they have. And he probably, based on what 232 00:14:31,230 --> 00:14:35,750 you were saying, you should also has a pulse of the people and he 233 00:14:35,750 --> 00:14:39,030 understands that. These were not the freed slaves 234 00:14:39,910 --> 00:14:43,950 that Moshe had that that that, you know, with that was what 235 00:14:43,950 --> 00:14:47,310 Moshe had to deal with was freed slaves and people that had 236 00:14:47,670 --> 00:14:54,750 probably psychologically a lot of a lot of trauma, right. 237 00:14:55,150 --> 00:14:58,870 You sure probably had a pulse of the people that he was leading 238 00:14:58,870 --> 00:15:02,350 in and felt that it would, it would, you know, they had the 239 00:15:02,350 --> 00:15:04,350 inner strength to be able to handle it. 240 00:15:04,350 --> 00:15:05,750 And they did. And they did. 241 00:15:06,580 --> 00:15:09,700 And by the way, you know, Yohoshua and Kaleb were part of 242 00:15:09,700 --> 00:15:12,620 that original mission. So it's not always the case, 243 00:15:12,620 --> 00:15:15,500 even if people experience trauma that they can't overcome it. 244 00:15:15,900 --> 00:15:19,140 But it typically takes a special kind of person with special 245 00:15:19,140 --> 00:15:22,900 resilience and most of us perhaps are not, are not sort of 246 00:15:22,900 --> 00:15:25,620 like constructed with that kind of ability. 247 00:15:26,060 --> 00:15:29,940 So obviously, and this is again coming back to the Rumbum. 248 00:15:29,940 --> 00:15:33,140 This is how the Rumbum ultimately understands the 40 249 00:15:33,140 --> 00:15:35,180 years in the ME bar. It's not a punishment. 250 00:15:35,790 --> 00:15:39,430 For Haitamara Glim, it's an opportunity for the people of 251 00:15:39,430 --> 00:15:43,870 Israel to grow into their role and to acquire the confidence to 252 00:15:43,910 --> 00:15:45,990 actually enter the land when the time comes. 253 00:15:46,710 --> 00:15:49,910 The actions of the spies just showed that they were just not 254 00:15:49,910 --> 00:15:51,550 ready. Simple as that. 255 00:15:51,990 --> 00:15:53,790 Correct. Amazing. 256 00:15:54,110 --> 00:15:56,710 And what I find so interesting about what you pointed out is 257 00:15:56,710 --> 00:16:01,310 that the resolve of the people on either side is so critical to 258 00:16:01,310 --> 00:16:06,120 their success that you know our own like it's not even just our 259 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,400 resolve, it's it's the enemy's resolve that matter that that 260 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,120 kind of is important. So when they hear that, it's 261 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,520 like okay, we got this, you know, I find that to be very 262 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:17,160 interesting. It's. 263 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:21,040 Yeah, it's an excellent point because obviously it's sort of a 264 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:25,400 two way St. here and you know there's a there's a beautiful 265 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:27,440 Ebenezer. I'll just point it out because I 266 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,840 think it, I think it's part of this idea, Ebenezer says. 267 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:35,230 You know, at the young Souf. The people of Israel were faced 268 00:16:35,230 --> 00:16:41,030 down by by Pharaoh's Chariots. There were 600 Chariots, OK? 269 00:16:41,030 --> 00:16:43,190 And there's a there's a serious fighting force. 270 00:16:43,470 --> 00:16:49,750 But Vinaysville #600,000 men of military age, even as you says, 271 00:16:49,990 --> 00:16:54,910 in spite of that, we didn't hear a single voice saying let's 272 00:16:54,910 --> 00:16:58,030 fight the Egyptians, Vinaysville said. 273 00:16:58,030 --> 00:17:00,870 We don't stand a chance. Why did you take us out of 274 00:17:00,870 --> 00:17:03,670 Mitraim? In order to die, right. 275 00:17:04,430 --> 00:17:07,950 Even as it says that that's that highlights the fact that that 276 00:17:07,950 --> 00:17:10,270 they have what he calls Nephesh Shifala. 277 00:17:10,829 --> 00:17:12,950 We'd call it an English, a slave mentality. 278 00:17:13,510 --> 00:17:15,910 That's what the names for LR when they leave me trying, and 279 00:17:15,910 --> 00:17:19,310 I'm not blaming them, obviously that's appropriate for where 280 00:17:19,310 --> 00:17:24,550 they are in their development. So they're not able to even 281 00:17:24,550 --> 00:17:28,820 imagine fighting the Egyptians. What a transformation now that 282 00:17:28,820 --> 00:17:31,420 the nays will have prepared to enter the land, right? 283 00:17:31,460 --> 00:17:35,540 And yes, that's being reflected and how their enemies are also 284 00:17:35,540 --> 00:17:39,980 relating and reacting to them. Beautiful. 285 00:17:40,580 --> 00:17:43,500 So I want to switch gears. I don't actually want to go back 286 00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:47,300 to Rakhav. So Rakhav, obviously that the 287 00:17:47,300 --> 00:17:49,580 gamar famously says she's one of the most beautiful women who 288 00:17:49,580 --> 00:17:53,140 ever lived and she was, you know, she married Yoshua. 289 00:17:54,010 --> 00:17:56,930 Everyone's familiar with those, you know, tales. 290 00:17:56,930 --> 00:18:01,650 But the story of Rakhav in the book of Yoshua is also, you 291 00:18:01,650 --> 00:18:07,970 know, just the shot is very well known and your analysis of 292 00:18:07,970 --> 00:18:11,650 Yoshua, you delve deeply into various aspects of the story. 293 00:18:11,810 --> 00:18:15,850 Was Rakhav truly a harlot? And why does the text not pass 294 00:18:15,850 --> 00:18:19,650 judgment on her profession? If it is indeed accurate? 295 00:18:20,420 --> 00:18:22,780 What might Rakhav have been thinking throughout this entire 296 00:18:22,780 --> 00:18:26,500 ordeal, and did she go? Did she undergo some form of 297 00:18:26,500 --> 00:18:28,900 transformation during this experience? 298 00:18:30,020 --> 00:18:33,940 So it's very interesting that you know throughout Tana to be a 299 00:18:33,940 --> 00:18:38,580 Zona or is Newt is never looked upon favorably and often when 300 00:18:38,580 --> 00:18:41,860 benei so else straight from Hashem that's the imagery that's 301 00:18:41,860 --> 00:18:45,970 employed. So this is a striking anomaly 302 00:18:45,970 --> 00:18:49,970 where we have this woman who is who is identified from the get 303 00:18:49,970 --> 00:18:54,130 go as a zona and the shot is a prostitute. 304 00:18:54,130 --> 00:18:56,330 That's the shot. I know the mid rush will say 305 00:18:56,450 --> 00:19:00,610 she's an innkeeper and it'll actually be based on a clever 306 00:19:00,610 --> 00:19:02,730 rereading of the root of the word. 307 00:19:02,730 --> 00:19:06,170 You have zana and you have a zone right? 308 00:19:06,170 --> 00:19:09,390 And they kind of look similar. So she's a Zona. 309 00:19:09,390 --> 00:19:12,550 Maybe that's related to mazon, which is in keeping or providing 310 00:19:12,550 --> 00:19:16,990 food, but the shot is, and Rashi himself acknowledges this, that 311 00:19:16,990 --> 00:19:21,590 she is in fact a prostitute and often keepers were also played 312 00:19:21,590 --> 00:19:24,590 the dual role of being you're offering them as or not, but 313 00:19:24,590 --> 00:19:29,870 also being the the zona good. So there might be a connection 314 00:19:29,870 --> 00:19:35,430 on that level as well. So I think it actually you know 315 00:19:35,510 --> 00:19:38,480 if. If and when we read Rahab has 316 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,000 has or not as Rahab the prostitute, that's when the 317 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:46,320 story actually is meaningful, as what it's offering us is one of 318 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:50,160 the most important ideas in Safe with Yoshua, which is that 319 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,480 transformation is possible, right? 320 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,240 We've seen this idea of succession, right? 321 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,640 Succession comes along ideally with some sort of a 322 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:02,400 transformation, whatever that whatever it is that I am growing 323 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,950 into. Indicates that I'm leaving 324 00:20:04,950 --> 00:20:08,310 something behind and I'm great. I'm embracing something else in 325 00:20:08,310 --> 00:20:11,230 its place. And I think Rahab absolutely 326 00:20:11,230 --> 00:20:15,630 illustrates that point. Maybe it's not the absolute 327 00:20:15,630 --> 00:20:19,150 shot, but it's certainly appropriate to read between the 328 00:20:19,150 --> 00:20:21,470 lines that that's in fact what's taking place. 329 00:20:22,350 --> 00:20:29,110 Why does she choose to betray her people, betray her king, and 330 00:20:29,110 --> 00:20:31,670 embrace the enemy? So you might say, well she's 331 00:20:31,670 --> 00:20:34,710 making a calculation. She figures Benet Stroller going 332 00:20:34,710 --> 00:20:36,150 to win, so she'll be on the winning side. 333 00:20:36,270 --> 00:20:37,710 And I think that's definitely part of it. 334 00:20:38,270 --> 00:20:41,430 But the way she expresses it indicates that there's something 335 00:20:41,430 --> 00:20:44,910 else which is taking place. And I'll just point out that 336 00:20:44,910 --> 00:20:50,910 when she speaks of God, it's in contrast to the gods of Yuri Ho, 337 00:20:51,310 --> 00:20:54,510 she speaks of God as being the God of Hashemayim. 338 00:20:54,670 --> 00:20:58,950 The quote is Ki Hashema lo queheim Hua lo Kim Bashamayim 339 00:20:58,950 --> 00:21:04,690 Mima Hal the al Haaretz Mitaha. Your God is the God in heavens 340 00:21:04,690 --> 00:21:09,050 above and on the earth below. I would argue two more words. 341 00:21:09,050 --> 00:21:12,090 She's quoting Moshe Rabenu, which is ain't odd. 342 00:21:12,250 --> 00:21:15,010 There is no more. That's how we say it in Alainu, 343 00:21:15,010 --> 00:21:18,530 that verse from sacred Devarim. But she is basically saying 344 00:21:18,530 --> 00:21:23,050 something about how the God of Israel is different than the 345 00:21:23,050 --> 00:21:26,730 gods that she's familiar with. I would argue in the text 346 00:21:26,730 --> 00:21:32,490 reports that Rahab dwells in the Huma in the wall of the city. 347 00:21:32,930 --> 00:21:35,690 That's also a statement about her marginalization. 348 00:21:36,530 --> 00:21:39,410 Because whoever dwells on the outskirts of a city, especially 349 00:21:39,410 --> 00:21:42,410 coast close to the wall, which means when the enemy attacks, 350 00:21:42,410 --> 00:21:45,210 they're going to be in the first line of defense. 351 00:21:45,450 --> 00:21:48,450 Typically, those are the people that are the weak and the 352 00:21:48,450 --> 00:21:51,850 vulnerable and the marginalized. And that's what she is. 353 00:21:51,850 --> 00:21:55,850 Because every prostitute is that even today in our modern 354 00:21:55,850 --> 00:21:59,680 societies who tends to be involved in that profession, 355 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:04,440 Very few people will do it as a function of choice. 356 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:10,000 They are somehow abused, or they're addicted, or they are 357 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,640 manipulated and they get into that place and there's no way 358 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:17,880 out. And Rahab knows very well she 359 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,000 can turn in those spies and be a hero for a day. 360 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,000 When that day is over, her life is not going to change. 361 00:22:25,910 --> 00:22:30,550 The only way her life can change is if in fact there's something 362 00:22:30,550 --> 00:22:36,430 other than the gods of Urico, because the gods of Urico look 363 00:22:36,430 --> 00:22:40,070 on her a basement, and they don't have a problem with it, 364 00:22:41,310 --> 00:22:44,190 typically in and. And we're sort of not. 365 00:22:44,670 --> 00:22:48,110 We're not sensitive to this. In idolatry, especially in the 366 00:22:48,110 --> 00:22:54,770 ancient Near East, justice and kindness and compassion are not 367 00:22:55,050 --> 00:22:58,810 values. There might be some gods out 368 00:22:58,810 --> 00:23:02,570 there that care, but by and large they're not enough to win 369 00:23:02,570 --> 00:23:06,050 the day. In the entire corpus of the 370 00:23:06,090 --> 00:23:10,930 ancient Near Eastern literature, there is nothing which remotely 371 00:23:10,930 --> 00:23:15,930 resembles what we call a serata. Dibrut Thou shalt not murder. 372 00:23:16,570 --> 00:23:19,850 How is that possible? Because an apolytheistic system, 373 00:23:20,050 --> 00:23:22,400 There's no such thing. There's a God of good. 374 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:23,960 There's a God of bad. There's a God of night. 375 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:25,520 There's a God of day. There's a God of evil. 376 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:27,040 There's a God of good. There's a God of the sea. 377 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,120 There's a God of the sky. Whatever, do what you want. 378 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,720 There are gods out there that are going to be on your side. 379 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:39,320 So we never hear the pantheon, the Canaanite pantheon saying, 380 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,640 guess what, people oppression. Oppression is wrong. 381 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,800 Marginalizing the vulnerable is wrong. 382 00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:49,720 Forcing a woman into this profession is wrong. 383 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,260 You'll never hear that. You can't. 384 00:23:53,220 --> 00:23:58,460 Now Rahhab meets these curious visitors who represent the 385 00:23:58,460 --> 00:24:02,100 different God. What sort of a God is it? 386 00:24:02,820 --> 00:24:06,660 It's a God who cares about the orphan, the widow, the 387 00:24:06,660 --> 00:24:11,020 vulnerable, the oppressed. And she says to herself, wow, 388 00:24:12,340 --> 00:24:15,340 maybe that means that somebody cares about me. 389 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,160 So I would argue what she actually experiences in the 390 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,960 course of her conversation with these Israelite spies is, for 391 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:28,760 the first time in her life, the possibility that her life could 392 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:32,440 be something else. And that's also part of her 393 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,520 embrace. It's not just the calculation 394 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,560 that the Israelites will win and the people of Yuriko will lose. 395 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:45,220 It's that if I join this people and their God, then I can leave 396 00:24:45,220 --> 00:24:48,460 my life behind and become something else. 397 00:24:49,580 --> 00:24:53,380 By the way, this is how Hazel read her, interpreted her. 398 00:24:53,540 --> 00:24:57,260 It might be me drastic, but it's also the shut in the Mihilta. 399 00:24:57,540 --> 00:25:03,500 Hazel tell us there's sort of this August group of converts in 400 00:25:03,500 --> 00:25:06,380 our tradition. Yeetra was one of them. 401 00:25:06,860 --> 00:25:11,980 Now Aman is one of them. But Hazel say Rahab surpasses 402 00:25:11,980 --> 00:25:16,920 all of them. Rahab Hazona ho da Otan 403 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,600 Viyotare. She acknowledged God to a 404 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,320 greater degree than any of the other converts. 405 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,080 And the the verse that I quoted earlier, Hashema lo Kehem 406 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:30,520 Huelokim Bashamai Mima al the al Haaretz Mitaha. 407 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,720 So I think in many ways Rahab becomes a paradigm for us. 408 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,760 We can also transform. Everyone can transform and 409 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,800 everyone has challenges, everyone has difficulties, 410 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,320 everyone has things that they want to change and it's never 411 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,880 easy, It's never easy, but it's possible. 412 00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:54,880 I think also what it teaches us is that, you know, you shouldn't 413 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,600 judge a book by its cover. Because in the ancient world, if 414 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,640 you're a, you know, a single mother or whatever it is, or 415 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,480 just a woman who's divorced or widowed, chances are you're 416 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,000 going to have to end up in Harlow Tree. 417 00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:11,320 So she she's in this world, but at the same time, this. 418 00:26:11,570 --> 00:26:16,930 This story is showcasing her integrity that she actually has, 419 00:26:17,730 --> 00:26:20,210 you know, she actually has good, yeah, she has words, she has 420 00:26:20,210 --> 00:26:23,970 good qualities. And Hashem listens to the voice 421 00:26:23,970 --> 00:26:27,010 of people who are, you know, the downtrodden in society. 422 00:26:27,450 --> 00:26:31,370 And that is I think, a very, you mentioned in ancient Near East. 423 00:26:31,810 --> 00:26:35,610 That is a stark difference from what you see in in the other, 424 00:26:35,610 --> 00:26:38,930 you know, stories where usually the greatest heroes are like 425 00:26:38,930 --> 00:26:42,590 demigods. But here, the hero of the story, 426 00:26:42,870 --> 00:26:46,590 the me, Josh mentioned that she marries Yoshua, I think to point 427 00:26:46,590 --> 00:26:51,270 out the fact that, look, how great of an achievement a person 428 00:26:51,270 --> 00:26:53,230 can make if they have this kind of integrity. 429 00:26:53,230 --> 00:26:56,630 And not only does she have integrity, but she put her trust 430 00:26:56,870 --> 00:27:01,030 in in these two random people with the Crimson string. 431 00:27:01,030 --> 00:27:04,590 And you know, how does she know that they're not going to just 432 00:27:04,830 --> 00:27:06,950 okay, We got what we wanted and we're going to kill everybody 433 00:27:06,950 --> 00:27:10,210 anyway. And again, those two spies have 434 00:27:10,210 --> 00:27:14,130 to get that information to Yoshua and make sure that all 435 00:27:14,130 --> 00:27:18,050 these soldiers are gonna be fall in line, protected and 436 00:27:18,050 --> 00:27:21,370 protected. That is an extra layer of 437 00:27:21,410 --> 00:27:23,730 integrity that she has. Beautiful. 438 00:27:24,370 --> 00:27:25,970 I'll go. I'm gonna build on what you 439 00:27:25,970 --> 00:27:27,570 said. She also saves her family. 440 00:27:28,130 --> 00:27:31,170 Yes, not just about herself. She saves her siblings. 441 00:27:31,170 --> 00:27:35,220 She saves her parents, right? So clearly she has some kind of 442 00:27:35,220 --> 00:27:37,900 nobility associated with her. I I honestly think you mentioned 443 00:27:37,900 --> 00:27:40,460 the Crimson cord. It's a powerful image. 444 00:27:41,340 --> 00:27:45,460 Basically what you have, you have some sort of a portal and 445 00:27:45,460 --> 00:27:49,020 you have this Crimson cord which is hanging in it, and that's 446 00:27:49,020 --> 00:27:51,740 going to be the source of her survival. 447 00:27:51,740 --> 00:27:55,300 That sounds to me like an exodus story, right? 448 00:27:55,500 --> 00:27:59,540 You place the blood on the lintel and on the doorposts, 449 00:28:00,120 --> 00:28:02,560 right? And Hashem will sweep through 450 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,560 and will preserve you. And when you cross that 451 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:10,440 threshold, you will be entering a new chapter in your life. 452 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,600 So it's almost like it's a personal you'd see it's trying, 453 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:18,240 so to speak, for a Havazona, or it's yet to be home. 454 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:19,920 Maybe would be a better way to characterize it. 455 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,640 Yeah. And the red kind of represents 456 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,080 their, you know, this security, the safety net that they have. 457 00:28:26,700 --> 00:28:29,380 In both in both stories and I always wondered like you know 458 00:28:29,380 --> 00:28:32,980 the red string ladies in the near the hotel like if that's 459 00:28:32,980 --> 00:28:35,620 where the origin of that comes from even obviously we we don't 460 00:28:35,620 --> 00:28:38,060 believe that it's has any religious significance. 461 00:28:38,340 --> 00:28:41,340 But it's interesting that that also is like a protective thing, 462 00:28:41,340 --> 00:28:44,420 and it probably builds off of that Crimson court. 463 00:28:44,420 --> 00:28:45,940 Just thought about it as an anecdote. 464 00:28:47,260 --> 00:28:50,620 This is very this was a very enlightening chapter and 465 00:28:51,180 --> 00:28:53,740 amazing. This whole Rahav story is just. 466 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:55,440 Unbelievable. It was. 467 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,480 It was your chapters on Rahab in the book that when I got it, 468 00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,160 when I started reading that, I was like, I was like, whoa, 469 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,400 wait, wait, wait, like this. Like you, you like you got my 470 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,040 attention. It was it was it was really well 471 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:06,000 done. Thank you for that one. 472 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:14,320 In Yehushua 513 to six one, it recounts the appearance of the 473 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:19,160 Angel of the Lord to Yoshua. What similarities does this 474 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:23,200 encounter share with previous previous occurrences in the 475 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,730 Torah? What overarching lesson or 476 00:29:25,730 --> 00:29:29,370 message could this Angel have been conveying to Ushua, and by 477 00:29:29,370 --> 00:29:30,930 extension to the people of Israel? 478 00:29:31,810 --> 00:29:37,570 So I think in context, you know the 1st 5 chapters of Uhoshua 479 00:29:38,090 --> 00:29:42,690 are about the succession theme. They're about confronting some 480 00:29:42,690 --> 00:29:45,010 of the traumas of the past and overcoming them. 481 00:29:45,010 --> 00:29:49,530 They're almost like preparation, but the story of the kibosh of 482 00:29:49,530 --> 00:29:52,530 the Conquest actually will begin with Chapter 6. 483 00:29:53,170 --> 00:29:57,330 The appearance of this malach is the bridge between the two. 484 00:29:58,770 --> 00:30:04,090 The image is very similar to the Angel that appears to Moshe at 485 00:30:04,090 --> 00:30:08,770 the Sneh, at the burning Bush in Safer Schmuck, and in both 486 00:30:08,770 --> 00:30:13,370 situations the malach or Hashem speaking through the malach says 487 00:30:13,490 --> 00:30:16,650 Shalna Alekha. May al Raglekha remove your 488 00:30:16,650 --> 00:30:19,330 footwear because you're standing on holy ground. 489 00:30:20,050 --> 00:30:24,870 So that's a way of teeing us in to the connection between the 490 00:30:24,870 --> 00:30:26,670 stories. You might say. 491 00:30:26,670 --> 00:30:30,430 Both of these moments are moments where the leader will 492 00:30:30,430 --> 00:30:35,030 now take on the mission that they have been assigned for 493 00:30:35,030 --> 00:30:38,310 Moshe Sitsy at Mitsraim. For Yoshua, it's bringing the 494 00:30:38,310 --> 00:30:40,830 people into the land. But that's also a study. 495 00:30:40,830 --> 00:30:45,310 In contrast, because Moshe was absolutely reluctant to do so, 496 00:30:46,350 --> 00:30:49,750 he went through a whole series of arguments why he's not the 497 00:30:49,750 --> 00:30:53,490 right person for the job. In the end, Hashem sent him 498 00:30:53,490 --> 00:30:55,850 anyways. We don't hear any of that 499 00:30:55,850 --> 00:30:59,330 reluctance with Yohoshua. Yohoshua embraces the mission 500 00:30:59,570 --> 00:31:02,170 and he's going to take it out. So that's like 1 fundamental 501 00:31:02,170 --> 00:31:06,970 difference I think. Additionally, when Mache goes to 502 00:31:07,770 --> 00:31:12,050 the mid bar to the wilderness and encounters this Malak Hashem 503 00:31:12,050 --> 00:31:17,090 at the snap, he's a shepherd and that means that his tool of 504 00:31:17,090 --> 00:31:22,490 trade is the Matek, the staff. That's what he's going to use by 505 00:31:22,490 --> 00:31:25,610 the way, to do all of the autota, all of the signs and the 506 00:31:25,610 --> 00:31:28,250 wonders. When the people are in Egypt and 507 00:31:28,250 --> 00:31:31,090 he is doing the miracles and the plagues in order to free them, 508 00:31:31,250 --> 00:31:36,530 the mate will always be the the symbol of that divine 509 00:31:36,530 --> 00:31:41,050 intervention when you who sure meets the malach. 510 00:31:41,170 --> 00:31:45,490 The Malach is holding a sword, the Harbosha Lufabiado. 511 00:31:47,260 --> 00:31:50,140 When Yohoshua fights battles later on in the story, he will 512 00:31:50,140 --> 00:31:52,660 be holding a key done, which is a spear. 513 00:31:54,300 --> 00:31:56,220 That's also a fundamental difference. 514 00:31:56,700 --> 00:32:01,740 Moshe holds a matte. Yohoshua holds a weapon because 515 00:32:01,740 --> 00:32:03,340 that speaks to their different missions. 516 00:32:04,260 --> 00:32:07,140 Moshe's mission is to take the people out of me, so I'm to lead 517 00:32:07,140 --> 00:32:09,100 them out like a shepherd leading the flock. 518 00:32:09,620 --> 00:32:12,460 Yohoshua's mission is to bring them into the land, which means 519 00:32:12,460 --> 00:32:13,660 that they're going to have to fight. 520 00:32:14,820 --> 00:32:19,590 By the way, Sartsva Hashem was originally announced in the 521 00:32:19,590 --> 00:32:24,550 Torah itself in Safer Schmutt. Hashem told Moshe Hine Anokhisho 522 00:32:24,590 --> 00:32:29,310 Dekh Malakh Lefanerha vishmor haba dera Vilha via ha El Hama 523 00:32:30,430 --> 00:32:35,960 comma shera he NT. So many of the commentary say 524 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,840 that's precisely who appears at this moment at the end of 525 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,440 Perricade, the beginning of chapter 6, the eve of the 526 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,960 conquest of Yuri Ho. Because we are now at that point 527 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,960 in the story, it's been a 40 year delay, but we're now at 528 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:55,600 that point of actually engaging the Kaname in battle, and 529 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,840 therefore the assurance that we need is that in fact victory 530 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,920 will belong to Benestra Hill if they can only find the inner 531 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:05,900 strength and the reliance on Hashem. 532 00:33:06,700 --> 00:33:10,540 One last difference I would say the idea of of removing one's 533 00:33:10,540 --> 00:33:15,220 shoes when Moshe or sandals when Moshe is told Shalda Alejami al 534 00:33:15,220 --> 00:33:18,460 Ragleja. Presumably it's because he is 535 00:33:18,460 --> 00:33:24,500 encountering Hashem's presence. It's Giluish Fina, even though 536 00:33:24,500 --> 00:33:29,060 it's in the wilderness. Yoshi is now about to enter 537 00:33:29,060 --> 00:33:34,130 Eritsistril, engage in conquering air. 538 00:33:34,130 --> 00:33:37,970 It's Israel that's a different kind of chidusha, that's a 539 00:33:37,970 --> 00:33:41,410 different kind of holiness. So the removal of the of the of 540 00:33:41,410 --> 00:33:45,410 his footwear here is both an acknowledgement of the fact that 541 00:33:45,410 --> 00:33:49,970 this being is somehow an emissary of God, as well as 542 00:33:49,970 --> 00:33:54,290 saying something, I think, about the holiness of the land that 543 00:33:54,290 --> 00:33:56,370 they are about to be conquering and settling. 544 00:33:58,340 --> 00:34:02,820 You know what's also interesting about this vision of Yoshua 545 00:34:02,820 --> 00:34:06,220 seeing a man in armor is that there seems to be like a common 546 00:34:06,220 --> 00:34:09,820 thread whenever anybody's having a vision of an Angel that 547 00:34:09,820 --> 00:34:12,900 they're seeing a kind of getting. 548 00:34:12,900 --> 00:34:15,100 It's a reflection of their subconscious mind. 549 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,520 And everything they've experienced through their own 550 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,400 framework. So for example you have Abraham 551 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,120 with, you know, the the angels who come to visit the sick. 552 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:26,920 They're they're they're angels of hesset. 553 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,880 And he's a man of hesset. And then you have even to Ishai 554 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,360 Yahoo, you have a man on a throne which is really 555 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:36,920 reflecting his you know, job working in the palace. 556 00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:40,120 They're they're they're seeing things from their own 557 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,960 perspective because that's how they experience in that. 558 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,820 You mentioned the same thing. This the story of of. 559 00:34:47,860 --> 00:34:50,580 Every Navi is unique. Every Navi is unique and also 560 00:34:51,540 --> 00:34:57,220 like brings to mind the the encounter between Yakov and the 561 00:34:57,260 --> 00:35:01,020 Angel who's described as the Angel of Essab, because that's 562 00:35:01,020 --> 00:35:02,860 what he was. He was about to face off with 563 00:35:02,860 --> 00:35:05,140 his brother, but he's been living in his brother's shadow 564 00:35:05,140 --> 00:35:10,420 his whole life. And this story, in a way, like 565 00:35:10,420 --> 00:35:14,780 you said, shows the contrast between Moshe and and Yoshua. 566 00:35:15,380 --> 00:35:17,420 One is a shepherd and one is okay. 567 00:35:17,420 --> 00:35:20,060 This is the new age. Now we need to fight. 568 00:35:20,100 --> 00:35:24,220 Now we need to be warriors. So I think that's in, you know, 569 00:35:24,420 --> 00:35:28,780 a very interesting idea that you see with prophecy. 570 00:35:28,780 --> 00:35:35,060 So I want to get into the next question, which is in Yoshua 627 571 00:35:35,060 --> 00:35:38,500 to 726. It narrates Israel's initial 572 00:35:38,500 --> 00:35:41,660 setback during Yoshua's leadership in the incident 573 00:35:41,660 --> 00:35:45,710 involving Akhan's transgression. And in your insightful analysis 574 00:35:45,710 --> 00:35:48,630 of the narrative, you explore the failure of the I ambush 575 00:35:49,350 --> 00:35:53,550 Yoshua's profound despondency, God's revelation of a wrongdoer 576 00:35:53,550 --> 00:35:58,070 in the in their midst as a the cause, and Akhan's tragic fate. 577 00:35:58,350 --> 00:36:01,550 Could you highlight some of the subtleties within this narrative 578 00:36:01,550 --> 00:36:04,510 and elucidate the ultimate lesson we should derive from 579 00:36:04,510 --> 00:36:08,430 this tragic chapter in an otherwise positive book up to 580 00:36:08,430 --> 00:36:10,110 this point? Wow. 581 00:36:10,270 --> 00:36:14,730 So let's not forget that the the, the command ringing in the 582 00:36:14,730 --> 00:36:19,690 ears of Bene Swel after the triumph over Jericho is do not 583 00:36:19,730 --> 00:36:25,770 take from the spoils. That's like absolutely critical. 584 00:36:26,010 --> 00:36:30,370 Do not take from the spoils. Because the way to interpret 585 00:36:30,370 --> 00:36:35,050 that is it's Hashem's victory. Benesville didn't fight. 586 00:36:36,050 --> 00:36:39,530 It was the Iran that was responsible for the conquest of 587 00:36:39,530 --> 00:36:43,600 the city. So we acknowledge that by not 588 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,160 taking from the spoils that otherwise would have been taken 589 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,880 by the armies that defeated the enemy, but instead they're 590 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,760 turned over to God. That's the backdrop. 591 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,240 They go on to the eye, which is now moving from the Jordan 592 00:36:57,240 --> 00:37:00,480 Valley into the Hill Country. And by the way, that's a 593 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,560 strategic move on Yohoshua's part. 594 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:08,240 He's intending to divide the Hill Country in half to split 595 00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:11,640 the north from the South so he can take on these Canaanite 596 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:17,370 kings, not as a unified front, but as somewhat broken up into 597 00:37:17,370 --> 00:37:20,930 more manageable parts. They get to the eye and as you 598 00:37:20,930 --> 00:37:22,890 pointed out, there is a set back. 599 00:37:22,890 --> 00:37:27,410 They are defeated in the initial battle and Yoshua's reaction is 600 00:37:27,690 --> 00:37:30,610 is overwhelming. He can't believe what's going 601 00:37:30,610 --> 00:37:33,010 on. We should have remained on the 602 00:37:33,010 --> 00:37:37,090 other side of the Arden. So obviously that's a way of 603 00:37:37,090 --> 00:37:40,130 saying Yoshua was absolutely not expecting this to happen. 604 00:37:41,050 --> 00:37:44,290 As it turns out, we will discover that Ahan is 605 00:37:44,290 --> 00:37:46,610 responsible. How so? 606 00:37:46,770 --> 00:37:48,490 He took from the spoils of Yuri home. 607 00:37:49,410 --> 00:37:52,450 The way the text phrases this though is very, very 608 00:37:52,450 --> 00:37:56,370 significant. When God tells you Hoshua that 609 00:37:56,650 --> 00:37:59,890 the Ney Israel are responsible, he doesn't say Ahan took from 610 00:37:59,890 --> 00:38:03,610 the spoils. He says Khattai Israel, the 611 00:38:03,610 --> 00:38:05,610 people of Israel took from the spoils. 612 00:38:05,970 --> 00:38:11,400 They took from the Pharam from that which was banned, the gum 613 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:15,920 gun avu, the gum kikhashu, the gum samu be shlehem. 614 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:17,560 They took. They denied. 615 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,920 They placed it with their possessions and they will not be 616 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:25,160 victorious until this forbidden matter, this karem, is removed 617 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:27,640 from their mitts. And then we go through this 618 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:32,280 whole lengthy process of singling out who the perpetrator 619 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:37,440 is. 1st we will designate the tribe by lot, and then we'll 620 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,990 designate the batea vote and the mishpakha. 621 00:38:41,110 --> 00:38:46,790 And finally, after, like a whole series of winnowing effects, we 622 00:38:46,790 --> 00:38:50,670 will arrive at the perpetrator, who is Akhan, and then he's 623 00:38:50,670 --> 00:38:53,350 punished. What's that all about? 624 00:38:53,790 --> 00:38:56,990 Why do we have to go through this elaborate selection of 625 00:38:56,990 --> 00:39:01,230 Akhan in which we start from the large group and we basically 626 00:39:01,230 --> 00:39:03,790 narrow it down until we get to him? 627 00:39:04,670 --> 00:39:06,830 So the book I think is presenting us with the really 628 00:39:06,830 --> 00:39:11,820 important idea, which Hakhanem expressed in a different context 629 00:39:11,820 --> 00:39:15,900 using different words. They said call Ystrael or Ravim 630 00:39:15,940 --> 00:39:20,660 Zebazar, all of Benestrael are coresponsible for each other. 631 00:39:21,300 --> 00:39:25,020 We have some sort of a collective destiny, which means 632 00:39:25,180 --> 00:39:29,260 when Akhan makes a decision, even though he thinks he's only 633 00:39:29,260 --> 00:39:33,660 acting for a Han, that decision is going to impact on all of the 634 00:39:33,660 --> 00:39:36,060 people around him. It's going to impact on his 635 00:39:36,060 --> 00:39:39,550 family and on this tribe and on the people of Israel at large. 636 00:39:39,750 --> 00:39:44,390 And especially that is true when you're dealing with some sort of 637 00:39:44,510 --> 00:39:50,990 a military context and literally your life as a warrior depends 638 00:39:50,990 --> 00:39:55,150 on the warriors around you. You can't make a personal 639 00:39:55,150 --> 00:39:58,190 decision because if you make a personal decision, you're 640 00:39:58,190 --> 00:40:02,750 jeopardizing everybody else. So we're beginning these wars of 641 00:40:02,750 --> 00:40:06,230 conquering the land. Part of that is you need. 642 00:40:06,870 --> 00:40:08,710 Absolute discipline in the ranks. 643 00:40:09,430 --> 00:40:13,670 So Akhan takes from the spoils. It's not just him, but it's the 644 00:40:13,670 --> 00:40:15,670 people. They're the ones that actually 645 00:40:15,670 --> 00:40:19,070 suffer the the consequence of that decision. 646 00:40:20,510 --> 00:40:23,190 And ultimately that's the process by which we will 647 00:40:23,350 --> 00:40:27,030 separate him out. Because we want to show a Shem 648 00:40:27,030 --> 00:40:30,190 wants to show that the safer wants to show that all of 649 00:40:30,190 --> 00:40:35,070 NASRAEL are intertwined and there's no such thing as one 650 00:40:35,070 --> 00:40:38,630 person making a decision in a context like that and it not 651 00:40:38,630 --> 00:40:40,310 having an impact on everyone else. 652 00:40:41,950 --> 00:40:45,030 I think even another way of looking at it would be that it's 653 00:40:45,030 --> 00:40:50,030 giving an opportunity for Tishuva because it it's not like 654 00:40:50,110 --> 00:40:54,110 he was outed immediately and fact is when he came forward it 655 00:40:54,110 --> 00:40:55,750 was too late. It was like okay, you've been 656 00:40:55,750 --> 00:40:57,630 busted already. So what does it mean? 657 00:40:57,790 --> 00:41:00,950 Doesn't mean anything your your confession or you know it 658 00:41:00,950 --> 00:41:02,270 doesn't. It's meaningless. 659 00:41:02,870 --> 00:41:07,870 So I think what it's also giving him the opportunity to step 660 00:41:07,870 --> 00:41:21,550 forward. Would that have made a 661 00:41:21,550 --> 00:41:11,150 difference, Do you think? You're going through every okay. 662 00:41:11,150 --> 00:41:14,030 Which one of you people did it and which one of you people, 663 00:41:14,030 --> 00:41:16,950 It's a process that they're going through that he had that 664 00:41:16,950 --> 00:41:19,150 chance to kind of change his destiny. 665 00:41:19,550 --> 00:41:23,630 Would it have the? We'll never know. 666 00:41:25,270 --> 00:41:29,970 I like to think that it would have, in the sense that it's 667 00:41:30,010 --> 00:41:34,650 it's always best to to come forward rather than to be, like 668 00:41:34,650 --> 00:41:39,530 you said, outed, right. It's interesting that there's a 669 00:41:39,530 --> 00:41:41,810 Mahloka, there's a disagreement among the commentaries. 670 00:41:41,810 --> 00:41:43,450 What was the fate of his children? 671 00:41:44,410 --> 00:41:48,570 Were they also destroyed as he was or were they only present in 672 00:41:48,610 --> 00:41:52,970 order to witness it? And part of that perhaps has to 673 00:41:52,970 --> 00:41:55,930 do with what, what exactly was their role in terms of being 674 00:41:55,930 --> 00:41:59,040 accomplices? Because it's true that Ahan took 675 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,760 from the spoils, but you can't just sort of like, do that 676 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:05,160 without people around knowing about it, without family knowing 677 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,320 about it. He hit it in his tent after all. 678 00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,040 Right. So clearly there are other 679 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:12,920 people that perhaps are aware on some level of what's going on 680 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,320 and what's their responsibility. Really what I'm saying is 681 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,080 somebody makes a decision, There's like these concentric 682 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,360 circles that are going to be impacted. 683 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,200 And the closer you are to that decision maker making, the poor 684 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:29,500 decision, you might argue the greater responsibility is also 685 00:42:29,500 --> 00:42:36,060 born by by the people that that are there, that are around and I 686 00:42:36,580 --> 00:42:38,780 love. The point you made with how 687 00:42:40,500 --> 00:42:46,540 they're now starting military conquests and and when you are 688 00:42:46,540 --> 00:42:49,180 starting military conquest a person has to understand that 689 00:42:49,180 --> 00:42:53,220 he's no longer an individual. You're only a group that that's 690 00:42:53,220 --> 00:42:55,300 that you know till today. That's how it works. 691 00:42:55,300 --> 00:42:59,590 No man gets us behind and. You know, and this is, it's 692 00:42:59,590 --> 00:43:03,070 almost like besides from a moral standpoint, it's also 693 00:43:03,070 --> 00:43:05,670 educational, right. Because they they have to 694 00:43:05,670 --> 00:43:10,750 understand what it means to to be a unit and and going in and 695 00:43:10,750 --> 00:43:12,950 conquering and fighting and wars. 696 00:43:12,950 --> 00:43:15,550 It's not a joke. And they have to they have to 697 00:43:15,550 --> 00:43:18,550 sort of grow up fast. You know what I mean? 698 00:43:19,870 --> 00:43:24,150 That that little detail you added there with that just when 699 00:43:24,150 --> 00:43:26,270 you said that I was like wow, you know that's a. 700 00:43:27,050 --> 00:43:28,650 Yeah, we see an important subtle point over. 701 00:43:28,650 --> 00:43:30,250 There we see that even with the. Modern. 702 00:43:30,810 --> 00:43:33,250 It's also important. We see that even with modern day 703 00:43:33,250 --> 00:43:38,410 Israel, where you know somebody, a soldier or some Jew, anywhere 704 00:43:38,410 --> 00:43:40,970 in the world is in trouble, they'll do whatever it takes to 705 00:43:41,530 --> 00:43:43,970 go after them, you know? And happy. 706 00:43:43,970 --> 00:43:46,930 And it's it's an unbelievable thing that I think a lot most 707 00:43:46,930 --> 00:43:52,410 nations wouldn't, you know, do whatever it takes to to remedy 708 00:43:52,410 --> 00:43:56,510 the situation good. And of course that means that 709 00:43:56,510 --> 00:44:00,430 there's a flip side right now. There's as much as we care that 710 00:44:00,430 --> 00:44:03,550 that also means that we're going to suffer the consequences of 711 00:44:04,790 --> 00:44:09,190 another Jews poor decisions. Yes, again, especially in the 712 00:44:09,190 --> 00:44:11,590 military context. Yeah. 713 00:44:11,590 --> 00:44:15,190 And I think what you're saying is it's a very practical take 714 00:44:15,190 --> 00:44:21,380 because like you mentioned the. Did the sons, you know, pay the 715 00:44:21,420 --> 00:44:23,420 consequences? But, you know, the Torah 716 00:44:23,420 --> 00:44:26,420 famously says that no son will die for the sins of the father. 717 00:44:26,420 --> 00:44:28,940 And. But what about when they're 718 00:44:29,020 --> 00:44:30,300 accomplices? Right. 719 00:44:30,300 --> 00:44:37,460 So, and it's, it's very illuminating to, you know, point 720 00:44:37,460 --> 00:44:39,900 out that they may have been accomplices because we see also 721 00:44:39,900 --> 00:44:42,780 with Cora and his sons that it's not the same situation. 722 00:44:43,180 --> 00:44:46,140 So I thought that was a very important point that you made. 723 00:44:47,020 --> 00:44:50,020 Listen, I think you know the the Kora contrast is fantastic 724 00:44:50,020 --> 00:44:54,460 because of Nick Kora Lometu. So obviously they they made a 725 00:44:54,460 --> 00:44:58,220 different decision and therefore their father's rebellion did not 726 00:44:58,340 --> 00:45:01,300 impact on them. So it could work either way. 727 00:45:01,500 --> 00:45:07,140 It's a great point. Lastly, and I wish we can, I 728 00:45:07,140 --> 00:45:09,980 wish we had time to do the whole book, but that's not going to 729 00:45:09,980 --> 00:45:12,300 happen. But lastly, what are your 730 00:45:12,300 --> 00:45:15,180 reflections on the seemingly indiscriminate? 731 00:45:15,580 --> 00:45:18,460 Slaughter of the Kanani inhabitants. 732 00:45:18,820 --> 00:45:22,100 The moral complexity of these events challenges challenges us 733 00:45:22,100 --> 00:45:25,780 in today's Westernized world. The common explanation tributes 734 00:45:25,780 --> 00:45:28,820 these actions to the ancient, ancient rules of warfare, 735 00:45:29,020 --> 00:45:30,940 characterized by harshness and brutality. 736 00:45:31,180 --> 00:45:33,500 This was how things were done back then, right? 737 00:45:33,780 --> 00:45:37,180 However, is this approach the accurate, accurate way to 738 00:45:37,220 --> 00:45:40,880 address the moral dilemma? Great question, I think. 739 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:45,240 You know, especially as moderns, my experience has been in, in 740 00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:48,320 teaching safety of ashua, that this is probably one of the most 741 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,960 challenging questions. So I want to point out a couple 742 00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:56,320 of things, and I'm not sure we can fully resolve it or that 743 00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,000 it's resolvable, But I want to point out a couple of things. 744 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,080 Number one, I think it's important to note that the war 745 00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,840 against the Canaanites is not a is not an ethnic war. 746 00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:09,850 It's an ideological war, which is to say the following The fate 747 00:46:09,850 --> 00:46:15,330 of Yuri Ho is that Yuri Ho is slaughtered and the city is 748 00:46:15,330 --> 00:46:18,130 banned, right? It becomes fair and nothing can 749 00:46:18,130 --> 00:46:22,250 be enjoyed from the spoils, and it must remain destroyed until 750 00:46:22,250 --> 00:46:25,410 the end of time. That's what's described and safe 751 00:46:25,410 --> 00:46:26,930 for Yoshiwa, I'll just point out. 752 00:46:27,170 --> 00:46:31,210 That's exactly what's described as the fate of what's called the 753 00:46:31,210 --> 00:46:34,790 ear honey dahat. The Israelite city that succumbs 754 00:46:34,790 --> 00:46:38,550 to idolatry suffers the same fate exactly. 755 00:46:39,190 --> 00:46:42,470 Everyone is put to death, the city is burned. 756 00:46:42,950 --> 00:46:45,150 No one is allowed to partake from the spoil. 757 00:46:45,150 --> 00:46:48,550 So what does that really say? The issue is not whether you're 758 00:46:48,550 --> 00:46:52,390 Israelite or Canaanite. The issue is where you is, 759 00:46:52,390 --> 00:46:53,910 whether you're an idolater or not. 760 00:46:54,350 --> 00:46:57,230 That's the issue. So I would say the war against 761 00:46:57,230 --> 00:47:01,740 the Kanaanim was a war against idolatry, not a war against a 762 00:47:01,740 --> 00:47:05,580 particular ethnic group. Which is why, by the way, Khazal 763 00:47:05,580 --> 00:47:09,980 and the Rishonim, especially the Rambam and the Ramban both 764 00:47:09,980 --> 00:47:15,500 understood that a Canaanite who accepts Sheva mitzvah penne 765 00:47:15,500 --> 00:47:22,380 Noah, the seven Noah hide laws, this entire, this entire war of 766 00:47:22,380 --> 00:47:24,380 destruction does not apply to them. 767 00:47:25,100 --> 00:47:29,500 Lo takhaya Kona Shamma does not apply to Knanim who accepted 768 00:47:29,500 --> 00:47:32,020 chef and meets what Beninova, the seven Noah hide laws. 769 00:47:32,260 --> 00:47:34,620 Now again, is that the shot? Harder to say. 770 00:47:34,860 --> 00:47:38,740 There are indications in the story clearly that not all the 771 00:47:38,740 --> 00:47:42,540 Canaanites were put to death. I'll just point out there are 31 772 00:47:42,540 --> 00:47:46,380 kings that are mentioned. Most of these kings are really 773 00:47:46,380 --> 00:47:49,620 city states. That's the list in chapter 12 of 774 00:47:49,620 --> 00:47:53,220 Safer Yohoshua. That leaves an awful lot of 775 00:47:53,220 --> 00:47:56,500 towns and villages and cities which are not destroyed. 776 00:47:57,020 --> 00:48:00,540 And we know that because in Safer shop theme, the kanaanim 777 00:48:00,540 --> 00:48:04,340 will be very much around and their culture will be informing 778 00:48:04,340 --> 00:48:07,100 the people of Israel. So on the one hand, I would 779 00:48:07,100 --> 00:48:10,860 argue the goal was for the people of Israel to be able to 780 00:48:10,860 --> 00:48:17,220 carve out some small place where they could actually achieve 781 00:48:17,380 --> 00:48:22,910 their mission as monotheists, and at the same time, most of 782 00:48:22,910 --> 00:48:25,550 the Canaanite population was not destroyed. 783 00:48:26,670 --> 00:48:30,390 The battles in safety of Hoshiwa are primarily battles against 784 00:48:30,550 --> 00:48:34,830 military coalitions. That's who's described as 785 00:48:34,830 --> 00:48:38,390 fighting against them. The king of Kevron, and the king 786 00:48:38,390 --> 00:48:41,950 of Yushalayim, and the king of Lakhish in the South, and a few 787 00:48:41,950 --> 00:48:46,110 more, and the king of Hatsur and the king of various other places 788 00:48:46,110 --> 00:48:49,060 in the north. And that's who they're fighting. 789 00:48:49,100 --> 00:48:52,700 Which is another way of saying Yohoshua's wars are not against 790 00:48:52,700 --> 00:48:57,700 the civilian population per se, but against the military 791 00:48:57,700 --> 00:49:01,620 alliances. Now, it is true that some of 792 00:49:01,620 --> 00:49:05,780 those cities are destroyed when their armies are destroyed. 793 00:49:06,300 --> 00:49:10,140 That's true, but I'm not sure that that was necessarily the 794 00:49:10,140 --> 00:49:12,740 point. The point was to defeat the 795 00:49:12,740 --> 00:49:17,470 Canaanite armies first, and then whatever else is necessary in 796 00:49:17,470 --> 00:49:21,310 order to be victorious. One other thing that I want to 797 00:49:21,310 --> 00:49:23,630 point out, which as I think are very important. 798 00:49:25,470 --> 00:49:29,030 First of all, yes, it's difficult to make a one to one 799 00:49:29,030 --> 00:49:32,950 comparison from what's reported in Safer Yoshua to our own 800 00:49:32,950 --> 00:49:36,630 experience today. But I'll just point out, as much 801 00:49:36,630 --> 00:49:41,790 as we like to think that Modern Warfare is more humane, I'm not 802 00:49:41,790 --> 00:49:45,480 sure that that's the case. Certainly in the 20th century, 803 00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:49,320 10s of millions of civilians lost their lives. 804 00:49:50,240 --> 00:49:54,840 America dropped two atomic bombs on Japan, which incinerated 805 00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:58,760 150,000 civilians. Now you might argue, yes, but 806 00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:03,320 that prevented a larger casualty list, because if they would have 807 00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:06,480 had to invade the Japanese and mainland, then there would have 808 00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,400 been more casual Whatever. It's a calculation that's made. 809 00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:15,040 But there's no such thing as a war in which civilians are 810 00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:18,600 spared. They shouldn't be the deliberate 811 00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:21,040 target, and I don't think they are in state for Yoshua. 812 00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:25,800 But it's unrealistic to expect that somehow you're going to 813 00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,360 defeat the enemy army and the civilians are going to be 814 00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,120 unharmed. What does the Torah say? 815 00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:36,840 The Torah says when you conquer a city, first you you you offer 816 00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,680 a terms of peace. Does a Mahlok it does this apply 817 00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:42,200 the to the kananim or not? Again, the Ramban will say that 818 00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:44,800 it does. So the way the Ramban reads the 819 00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:48,560 story, just like what happened with the Guibonim right? 820 00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:50,920 There's an opportunity for them to be spared. 821 00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:56,280 When we finally get to the list of the Canaanite kings that are 822 00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:59,040 defeated, it's a list of 31 kings. 823 00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:03,680 Chapter 12 of Se Priya Hoshua the the Hakamim call that Shira. 824 00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:08,520 It is a song, but there's nothing in there which is 825 00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:11,400 triumphalist. There's nothing in there which 826 00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:16,000 is celebratory as much as safer. Yoshua describes the defeat of 827 00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:18,720 the Kananim, it never celebrates it. 828 00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:24,520 It's never some grotesque kind of gloating over the destruction 829 00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:26,920 of the enemy. So I would say that's an 830 00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:29,840 incredibly important point. If you know anything about 831 00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:33,840 ancient literature, ancient mythology, it's full of 832 00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:37,120 celebrating the defeat of the enemy, often in very grotesque 833 00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:41,040 terms. Like brings to mind Ramseys the 834 00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:44,600 seconds war against the battle of Khadish, right? 835 00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,680 It's wanting and all that stuff, Absolutely. 836 00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:54,440 I think that to add to your point, the Torah also speaks 837 00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:58,650 very hyperbolically. Oftentimes, like the way we 838 00:51:58,650 --> 00:52:01,370 would speak today, when a team in sports beats another team, 839 00:52:01,370 --> 00:52:04,450 they say what they wiped the floor with them, you know, or 840 00:52:04,450 --> 00:52:06,850 they they utterly destroyed them. 841 00:52:07,170 --> 00:52:11,490 So a lot of times the tour will use that language because we 842 00:52:11,490 --> 00:52:16,250 don't even know it might be using, you know, cultural, you 843 00:52:16,250 --> 00:52:20,490 know, kind of like what it did with for example, Biyad Kazuka 844 00:52:20,490 --> 00:52:23,650 was running to ya these a language that was used in that 845 00:52:23,650 --> 00:52:25,410 time. So it would. 846 00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:31,240 Kind of adopt that, and the Torah kind of exaggerates in 847 00:52:31,240 --> 00:52:33,680 certain situations. So I think that's an important 848 00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:37,720 point to make. When it comes to this utter 849 00:52:37,720 --> 00:52:41,200 destruction of your recall, I don't think that it's 850 00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:43,120 necessarily literal like you said. 851 00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:46,240 So I thought that was something that I wanted to point out. 852 00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:52,680 Excellent .1 thing that that maybe I'll just add is if we're 853 00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:57,960 going to take it literally, which I suppose you could, then 854 00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:01,440 I think it's only fair that we take the rest of it literally, 855 00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:07,040 which is the Torah's constant refrain about the Canaanites 856 00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:10,280 being willing to sacrifice their children to their gods. 857 00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:16,480 And sort of the report of the kananim in the Torah is not a +1 858 00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:21,720 okay. So whatever ideas they represent 859 00:53:22,390 --> 00:53:25,630 obviously are not just threats to monotheism, but they're 860 00:53:25,630 --> 00:53:30,950 threats to sort of what we might term moral living. 861 00:53:32,590 --> 00:53:38,390 Okay does that Society, society. Yeah, we're gonna be living. 862 00:53:38,750 --> 00:53:41,470 If we're gonna be living side by side with people who sacrifice 863 00:53:41,470 --> 00:53:44,470 their children, that's gonna influence, that's gonna 864 00:53:44,470 --> 00:53:51,390 influence the Jewish residents. And I think that this is. 865 00:53:51,860 --> 00:53:54,900 Showing the difference between our nation and the other nations 866 00:53:54,900 --> 00:53:58,780 is that the Torah was the first of any nation to actually 867 00:53:58,780 --> 00:54:02,580 announce that we don't own our children, we don't sacrifice our 868 00:54:02,580 --> 00:54:05,460 children to the gods. That Akadas famously is about 869 00:54:05,460 --> 00:54:08,220 that. So the significance of that, I 870 00:54:08,220 --> 00:54:11,860 think people today don't appreciate the historical 871 00:54:11,860 --> 00:54:14,860 context of what was happening in those days. 872 00:54:15,420 --> 00:54:17,300 You know, it's it's just brutality. 873 00:54:17,300 --> 00:54:19,980 And people treated their their wives and their children like 874 00:54:19,980 --> 00:54:24,150 cattle. So I think that is very you. 875 00:54:24,190 --> 00:54:25,910 You point that out. It's a very important point to 876 00:54:25,910 --> 00:54:34,670 make. Rob, I had and I wanted to just 877 00:54:34,670 --> 00:54:38,830 say, you know, it's safe for Ushua. 878 00:54:38,830 --> 00:54:43,550 It's kind of like the book that like people, kind of like, you 879 00:54:43,550 --> 00:54:46,270 know, when you grow up and safe for ushua, some people might 880 00:54:46,270 --> 00:54:48,630 find it boring a little bit. You know, there's more 881 00:54:48,630 --> 00:54:51,270 interesting ones like you know show team is full of like, you 882 00:54:51,270 --> 00:54:53,990 know, like war and you know well not that this doesn't have war 883 00:54:53,990 --> 00:54:57,870 but like a little more brutality maybe played into the played 884 00:54:57,870 --> 00:54:59,590 into the wars. And you have like Shmuel is like 885 00:54:59,590 --> 00:55:03,230 the drama and then you have like you know Melahim with the kings 886 00:55:03,230 --> 00:55:05,950 and and everything that goes on in the political, you know, 887 00:55:05,950 --> 00:55:07,870 monarchy and splitting of the kingdoms. 888 00:55:08,310 --> 00:55:10,350 I feel like you should kind of maybe gets a little bit in the 889 00:55:10,350 --> 00:55:13,110 back burner, which is why I think that your book is so 890 00:55:13,110 --> 00:55:17,390 incredible because you know, you have to start at the beginning. 891 00:55:17,660 --> 00:55:21,700 Right, the beginning of setup of Yoshua and reading your book 892 00:55:21,780 --> 00:55:25,900 really made the entire book of Yoshua meaningful, interesting, 893 00:55:26,660 --> 00:55:30,860 engaging and I highly, highly suggest I don't. 894 00:55:30,860 --> 00:55:37,300 Do we show the I highly, highly suggest The Book of Yoshua and 895 00:55:37,300 --> 00:55:42,060 Shoftim that Robert Haddon brought out for my publishing. 896 00:55:42,260 --> 00:55:45,150 It is an incredible read. And you speak so wonderfully as 897 00:55:45,150 --> 00:55:47,550 well, so elegantly. Thank you so much. 898 00:55:47,550 --> 00:55:50,270 We really appreciate it and what it by the way, do you have a, do 899 00:55:50,270 --> 00:55:51,710 you have a project coming up soon? 900 00:55:53,390 --> 00:55:56,670 Project coming up soon? I'm working on something, yes. 901 00:55:57,790 --> 00:56:01,150 OK, so God willing, we'll get to do another podcast with you. 902 00:56:01,230 --> 00:56:03,430 There's rata sham, There's rata sham all. 903 00:56:04,070 --> 00:56:05,550 Right. Thank you very, very much. 904 00:56:05,550 --> 00:56:07,510 We appreciate your time and your insights. 905 00:56:08,030 --> 00:56:11,870 Thank you both very much and just keep up your good work. 906 00:56:12,580 --> 00:56:13,460 Thank you. We appreciate it. 907 00:56:13,460 --> 00:56:15,420 Thank you. All right. 908 00:56:15,420 --> 00:56:16,300 I'm not so bad. Bye. 909 00:56:21,820 --> 00:56:24,100 Hey guys, thanks so much for tuning into the Judas and 910 00:56:24,100 --> 00:56:27,060 Demystified podcast. We really appreciate all your 911 00:56:27,060 --> 00:56:30,940 support and your feedback. If you want to help us grow the 912 00:56:30,940 --> 00:56:32,980 podcast, keep spreading the word. 913 00:56:32,980 --> 00:56:35,700 Share it with your friends, family, or whoever you think 914 00:56:35,700 --> 00:56:38,940 would be interested. We also opened a Patreon. 915 00:56:39,410 --> 00:56:42,370 So you can become a patron, contribute any small amount 916 00:56:42,370 --> 00:56:45,050 you'd like, which would really help us grow the show. 917 00:56:46,250 --> 00:56:52,450 Our Patreon is www.patreon.com Judaism. 918 00:56:52,690 --> 00:56:56,210 Pretty easy to remember. Thank you again and we hope to 919 00:56:56,210 --> 00:56:58,010 keep putting out great shows for you guys.