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Welcome to Judaism Demystified, 
a podcast for the perplexed. 

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Join us as we explore some of 
the most fascinating Jewish and 

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Torah related topics with our 
esteemed guests. 

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By tackling some of the biggest 
questions you likely won't find 

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addressed elsewhere, we aim to 
shed light on important issues 

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and inspire a return to the 
fundamentals. 

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Enjoy the show. 
Thank you for joining the 

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Judaism Demystified podcast. 
Rev Groom it. 

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It's an honor to have you on. 
But we're big fans of your book.

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Ben. 
See if you can hold up his book 

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Genesis. 
I we highly recommend this book 

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by Genesis. 
And off camera, you were just 

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telling us how you are actually 
going to be publishing a book on

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Shamot. 
So yeah. 

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So tell, tell us a little bit 
about that. 

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Tell us about yourself before we
get started with the questions. 

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OK, so first of all, you 
mentioned the book on SHMOT. 

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It's going to press like within 
the next couple of weeks. 

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You know, people ask me how long
it, how long it took me to 

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write. 
So it's a hard question. 

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You know, from the time I 
actually started writing, it was

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a couple of years, but the ideas
percolate for many decades 

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before. 
Before you sit down to write, 

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tell me a little bit about 
myself. 

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You know, I'll, I taught in the 
states in, in high schools or 

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for a number of years, I in the 
New York area and, and then they

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made all the 23 years ago. 
I, you know, I'm just going to 

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add one thing. 
When I was teaching in, in the 

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Shiva high school, basically in 
those days, I taught anything 

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that had Hebrew letters. 
But that's what they want to 

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teach mission, you're teaching 
Mishnah, you're teaching Gemara,

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you're teaching Halacha, you're 
teaching Tanakh. 

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You did. 
But if it had Hebrew letters, 

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Phila, you're teaching it. 
And after about after about 8 

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years of doing that, I realized 
that I wanted to get really good

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at something 'cause I had to get
a little bit of this and a 

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little bit of that and a little 
bit of this. 

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And I decided that that I wanted
to concentrate on on Tanakh. 

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And that's why I'm here today. 
So you know, when I, when I 

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left, when I left the States, I 
came here to Israel. 

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I work in a center at Berlin 
University for Jewish education.

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It's called the Lukstein Center 
for Jewish Education. 

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We work with Jewish schools and 
teachers all over the English 

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speaking world. 
Actually now even we're working 

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a little bit in France and in 
Germany and, and in Russia. 

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Interesting. 
Russia and Ukraine in, in, in 

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both of those. 
It's very interesting, 

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interesting kind of work. 
And up until this year, I I 

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taught for 20 years at Yeshivat 
Erezatsvi here in Ushalayim. 

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It's a post high school yeshiva.
This year I stepped back and. 

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Amazing. 
That's, that's right, I I've had

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the real honor and luxury of 
being able to teach what I love.

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Amazing. 
And, and choosing, how did you 

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get to choosing like focusing on
on Tanakh? 

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I mean, we don't see that so 
often. 

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It's it's amazing. 
But you know, nowadays, 

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obviously people are focused on 
many other things and we always 

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like Bensi and I are always like
attracted to those who are, you 

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know, putting out work on 
Tanakh. 

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That's it's really like the 
mage, the people. 

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So how did you get drawn to 
that? 

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Like basically as someone 
teaching in the yeshiva high 

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schools, I taught in Frisch and 
I taught them Hafter and I spent

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nine years at TABC in Teaneck. 
And what I felt was I, I wanted 

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to become a Jewish educator 
because I wanted to be able to 

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reach teens. 
And I really sensed that Tanakh 

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was a natural place where teens 
could connect back with their, 

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with, with their Jewish sources 
and they could, by reading 

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Tanakh, they could see 
themselves in the, in those 

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texts. 
I so I, so I, I thought that 

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that would be the best for me, 
the best tool that I could use 

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in order to be able to bring 
kids to want to learn. 

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That was really good, yeah. 
Yeah, I was going to say that, 

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you know, it's, it's baffling to
me because we always before we 

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get to the questions, but we 
always, you know, notice that 

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people when they read the 
parsha, they hear the rabbit 

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give a speech and she'll you 
always hear people say like, oh,

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I, I feel so connected to this 
week's parsha. 

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Like, isn't it amazing how it's 
reflecting what's happening now 

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in our lives? 
You always hear that, but then 

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like for some reason, we, we 
look back at our, you know, 

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yeshiva education, we just 
stopped learning it really on a 

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deep level at a very young age. 
And like, it was almost like 

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high school was an afterthought.
So it's I, I, I'm hoping there's

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and I'm, I'm seeing it, but I'm,
I'm advocating for a resurgence 

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in, in learning in Tanakh. 
So that, that's a very welcome 

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thing that you're doing. 
So thank you for that. 

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OK, so we're going to get into 
the introduction of your book, 

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which you frame Genesis as a 
narrative of God's search for a 

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meaningful relationship with 
humanity through an 

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establishment of a covenant. 
How does the Torah portray the 

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biblical patriarchs Avran, 
Mitzak, and Yakov and Yosef as 

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engaged in this process? 
And how does the recurring use 

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of the word tol doth contribute 
to this overarching covenantal 

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theme? 
OK. 

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So you're asking it that That's 
a very big question and I'm 

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going to only going to answer 
half of it. 

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The look Seifer Brasheat begins 
with Hashem creating the world 

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and and people, right? 
He's interested in people, 

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right? 
And he tried, he really tried. 

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And the story in the beginning 
of Seifer Brasheat basically is 

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the story how Hashem tried but 
but was unsuccessful or maybe 

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only only so limited success at 
after 20 generations of that. 

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And I'm not making this up. 
Meaning if this goes back to to 

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the beginning of, you know, the 
the of the Perak of Perk, a vote

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by the 10 generations, right? 
And then the next 10 

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generations. 
Some of these ideas were first 

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formulated, at least first to 
me, by Martin Buber. 

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But the the the basic idea that 
Shem wants to have a 

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relationship with people, it it 
became clear that having a 

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relationship with all humanity 
was was not going to work right.

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So we had one failed attempt. 
It ended with the Mabul. 

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We had the second failed 
attempt. 

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It ended with the story that 
people call Migdal Bavelle. 

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Eventually Ashram says, OK, you 
know what, let me find one guy 

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because that that's what he did.
What you know, was before about 

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one. 
Let me find one guy, one family.

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I said guy is going to turn into
a family. 

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That family is going to be the 
family that through which I am 

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going to communicate my message 
to the rest of humanity and hope

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that that family can become the 
the bridge between me says God 

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and the rest of humanity. 
That's Avraham Venevahuvah 

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Komish pahota Adama. 
Avraham is supposed to be the 

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source. 
That's how Avraham is going to 

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be the source of, of bracha for 
all of all of mankind, right? 

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He's going to bring God's word 
to them. 

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He's going to bring them closer 
to God there. 

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I mean, Rashim that talk about 
about being, you know, people 

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closer, closer to, to, to 
Hashem. 

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So, so Hashem chose Avraham and 
then and then there's there's a 

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a winnowing process. 
So Alram has two kids, only one 

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of them for all sorts of 
reasons, but only one of them 

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turns out to be fit in Hashem's 
eyes to carry on the covenant. 

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The breed Yitzhak has two kids. 
Interesting question as to why 

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Asaph was not included for very 
different reasons than Ishmael I

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I actually think it was it was a
self selecting choice. 

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I actually think that Asaph 
chose himself out, but that if 

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you we, we can talk if if you 
want to, we can talk about that 

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in the meaning he was not 
rejected. 

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Asaph was not rejected. 
He rejected himself and as a 

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result of his self rejection. 
So, so Hashem says, OK, we'll go

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with that. 
And then on to Yaakov. 

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The part that this is the part 
where it gets where it gets 

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tricky because there's very 
little that the avote have to do

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in order to be become part of 
this breed. 

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All they need to do is to agree,
and that agreement is expressed 

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through breed milah. 
Aside from that, they're 

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passive. 
Hashem gives the breed to 

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Avraham, He doesn't have to do 
anything. 

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He then gives the breed to 
Yitzhak. 

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He thought doesn't have to do 
anything. 

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He gives the breed to Yaakov. 
Yaakov doesn't have to do 

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anything. 
They're all passive the first 

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time you get to anybody playing 
an active role. 

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But a seriously active role is 
Har Sinai, which by the way, is 

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in my next book. 
It's coming out and you know, 

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hopefully very, very soon it's 
going to press almost 

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immediately. 
But so Har Sinai and and that's 

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the big deal about. 
And he's still standing there 

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with Har Sinai and saying, yes, 
because it's the first time in 

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human history that Hashem has a 
brief that's actually bilateral 

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with a greed voluntarily. 
And they have an active role to 

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play in that. 
Avram, Yitzhak and Yaakov are 

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passive participants. 
OK, So the part that I'm not, I 

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thought what active role did 
Avram play? 

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So that's I don't think he 
played an active role in in that

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particular piece in terms of in 
terms of the word tol do. 

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So this is something really 
interesting. 

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I you know, one one of my one of
the books that sits right next 

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to me all the time is a 
concordance. 

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Concordance is is a great book. 
If you're not familiar with it, 

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it tells you we're every single 
occurrence of every word in 

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Tanakas. 
And I had this hunch about the 

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word tol dolt and I looked it up
in the concordance and that and 

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the hunch paid off. 
The word toldot as in ayla 

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toldot, these are the toldot. 
And I'm not even going to define

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what that means right now 'cause
it's a whole complicated thing. 

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But that phrase Ayla toldot is 
that is that safer toldot 

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appears 13 times in all of 
Tanakh. 

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Eleven of those are in safer 
brace sheet. 

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OK, that that says I need to be 
explained right. 

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And, and the word tol dolt, 
I'll, I'll give you this what I 

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think is the simplest 
definition. 

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Tol dolt means what came out of 
this, right? 

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Like the phrase MI EDA Mae LED 
yo, what's what, what, what will

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the day give birth to? 
What was the end result of this?

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So we start the very beginning 
of safer bruh, Rashid parekh 

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Beit pasu dalid zeh safer tol 
dolt no Ayla tol dolt 

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Hashimayevaritz right now it 
can't be children because 

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Shamayevaris didn't get married 
and give birth to children, 

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right? 
So it must mean something else. 

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What was the net result of, of, 
of, of the creation of 

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Shamayevaritz? 
And when you take a look at it, 

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Safer Brace is basically a book 
that's comprised of 11 

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collections of Toldot and each 
one of them ends right before 

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the next one. 
And when you look at it that 

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way, you can look at each book 
of Toldot and say, oh, So what 

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was the net result of the 
creation of Shamayevaritz? 

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The net result was right. 
It's actually after the story of

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Kine and Hebel. 
The net result was some people 

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mess up that there's a 
possibility for Chuva, and it 

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ends with it ends with Shait us 
who called the kroba shame 

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Hashem. 
That's when people started 

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calling out in God's name, which
means that the net result of the

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creation of Shanghainva Aritz 
was that there is potential for 

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people to mess up. 
There's the possibility for 

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Chuva and people have the 
capacity on their own to find 

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God. 
That's that's that's the net 

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result of the first, the first 
brick of Toldot. 

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The second book of Toldot, 
right, is Toldot. 

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Is that safer Toldot Adam right?
Beginning of parakae of safer 

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brace sheet, right? 
That's a much shorter one. 

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And that one basically ends with
the preamble to the Mabul OK, 

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which is a like the first book 
of told of us with a very 

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positive feeling. 
The second one leaves us the 

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very negative feeling where 
Hashem basically regrets 

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creating the world, creating 
humans, right? 

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With one exception, the Noah 
Masakhane Beni Hashem, there's 

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possibility over here, but it's 
really limited, right? 

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Meaning humans have the 
capacity, but there's something 

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that's missing there. 
And when you go through all of 

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safer Gray sheath and you look 
at it just from those, just from

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the the perspective of the Tol 
Doat, you realize that Hashem 

224
00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,320
starts off thinking about all of
humanity, then limits it to Noah

225
00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:14,280
and his kids, then limits it to 
Tarah and his kids. 

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00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,240
Interesting, right? 
There's a total of Tarak and 

227
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,480
before that there's a total of 
shame, right? 

228
00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,520
There's a total of Noah, total 
of shame, total of Tarak. 

229
00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:28,720
There's no total of Avram, which
I think is fascinating and 

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00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,680
anybody wants to they can look 
at a book they can and then they

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00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:33,080
can they can learn more about 
that. 

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00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:37,040
And then we get to total of 
Yitzhak Yildo to Ishmael, the 

233
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:41,320
other way around, Ishmael 1st 
and Yitzhak then you have and 

234
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:45,160
and that basically takes us 
through the entire book of 

235
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breisheet. 
It starts with Hashem creating a

236
00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,840
world humanity. 
He wants a relationship with 

237
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humanity and eventually gets 
narrowed down. 

238
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He realizes that that's not 
going to work with all humanity.

239
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He has to work with one 
individual who's going to become

240
00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,280
a family. 
And eventually it's Yaakov's 

241
00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:10,240
family that that create the core
of of the people that Hashem is 

242
00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:15,040
going to use as his as his 
partners to spread his word to 

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00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:19,080
the rest of humanity. 
And one of the one of the unique

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00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,320
things about your book is, is 
that when it comes to the vote 

245
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:26,080
and really any character, you 
don't hide. 

246
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:27,840
You didn't hide. 
It's the wrong word. 

247
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:34,000
You are not shy in viewing the 
text as, let's say, Avraham 

248
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:40,520
having certain challenges that 
need to be overcome, right? 

249
00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,320
You don't, you don't in a sense 
put them on a pedestal. 

250
00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:49,000
You actually really zoom in on 
the flaws of certain characters 

251
00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:52,280
of Rami Takiakov. 
Everyone, almost everybody has 

252
00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:56,480
this deficiency, which in a 
sense needs to needs to be 

253
00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,600
improved upon and reach. 
It's like redemption arc in a 

254
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:06,520
sense, right? 
So so even though the covenant 

255
00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:11,800
was given, I took that to mean 
that the vote and the characters

256
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,440
that need to characters is a bad
word. 

257
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,640
But I'm just using that the the 
characters that need to live 

258
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,680
they receive the covenant also 
have to live up to it and and 

259
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,880
and grow in order to to assume 
that. 

260
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:30,160
So I, I look, I I, I start with 
a few basic assumptions. 

261
00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:35,160
One of them, one of them is I 
assume that Hashem says what he 

262
00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:37,840
means. 
He doesn't play games. 

263
00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:42,360
Hashem tells us he, he like he 
wrote the Torah. 

264
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:48,760
So, so he, he wanted it written 
that way, right, right. 

265
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,400
He's trying to tell us something
and I'm not the first to, you 

266
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:56,440
know, to read the you look at 
the wrong ban or, or, or others,

267
00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,120
you know, they're, they're not 
afraid to look at the Torah to 

268
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:03,320
say this is what the the words 
actually say, right? 

269
00:17:04,599 --> 00:17:07,359
And I think the there's great 
power in that. 

270
00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:10,560
I'm not looking for flaws. 
I'm looking to to understand 

271
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,920
what Hashem is trying to say. 
Hashem is the one who tells us 

272
00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:16,359
the flaws. 
You don't need grommet to do 

273
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,640
that. 
Hashem tells us what the flaws 

274
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:25,480
were. 
What what I'm looking for is my 

275
00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:30,440
assumption is, and one of my 
assumption is that great 

276
00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:35,240
characters are not born great, 
they become great. 

277
00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:41,040
Nobody is born inherently great.
Everybody has to become 

278
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,320
something. 
You got to work for it. 

279
00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:49,600
Look, even take for example, 
Avraham, when we first meet him,

280
00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:54,960
his name is Avram. 
He's not Avraham takes all of 

281
00:17:57,120 --> 00:18:04,120
which is 14 years, right? 
Hashem Meesa when he's 75, the 

282
00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:08,000
end of leche, he's 99 right? 
14 years. 

283
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,760
He's talking to Hashem and his 
name hasn't changed yet from 

284
00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,720
Avraham to Avraham. 
Why not? 

285
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,320
Well, because he hasn't 
developed into Avraham yet. 

286
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:23,000
Hashem is not ready yet to, to 
to graduate him to the next 

287
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,320
stage. 
So he has to become that the 

288
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:31,760
greatness of of of all the great
characters in Tanakh is that 

289
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:33,640
they made themselves who they 
are. 

290
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,840
They made themselves great and 
every single one of them had 

291
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,880
challenges, right. 
I mean people who use the word 

292
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,480
flaws, I say challenges. 
They all have to they have to 

293
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,080
overcome those challenges. 
Their greatness is how they deal

294
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,880
with their challenges. 
You know, there's, there's, 

295
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:55,000
there's that face famous Pasuk 
Titane and met Liakov Hassan the

296
00:18:55,000 --> 00:19:00,040
Abraham. 
So Titane, please Hashem, give 

297
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:06,920
it's fila, give Yaakov the mida 
avemet he had to work for. 

298
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,360
It didn't come easy. 
That was something he was 

299
00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:13,200
seriously challenged with. 
I mean, you take a look at the 

300
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:16,400
stories of Yaakov when we first 
meet him, he's seriously 

301
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,760
challenged by by the mida 
avemet. 

302
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,600
It takes him a long time to 
finally embrace that. 

303
00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:26,600
And when he finally does embrace
it, Hashem says, OK, now you're 

304
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:31,680
ready to beat Israel, right? 
So Avraham is the same thing 

305
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:35,360
Avraham is. 
You have to, you have to embrace

306
00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:38,360
your challenge and learn to move
past it. 

307
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:43,320
So Avraham's greatness was that 
he, he understood his challenge 

308
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:49,600
and he grew past it. 
So I, I think to me it's just 

309
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,160
truth because that's what the 
Torah is saying. 

310
00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:57,400
That's number one. 
Number two, it it doesn't, I 

311
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:01,120
don't think it diminishes the 
status of the avote. 

312
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,040
I think it actually elevates the
status of the Avote. 

313
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,320
Look at what they overcame in 
order to become who they are. 

314
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:13,920
And 3rd, it actually makes them 
characters that we can aspire to

315
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:19,240
because they had challenges. 
They overcame well, who amongst 

316
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,280
us does not have challenges? 
Nobody. 

317
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:24,320
Who? 
Who amongst us doesn't have 

318
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:26,240
things that that that holds them
back? 

319
00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:31,680
And I think part of the profound
message of the Torah in 

320
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,080
presenting all of the all of 
these characters, everybody 

321
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,920
without exception, you know, 
Avram Yitzhak, Yaakov Yosef 

322
00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:43,560
Moshe Aaron Tavich, I mean, 
every one of them has challenges

323
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,080
they need to overcome. 
The Torah points that out to us.

324
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,800
It wants to let us know these 
can be your role models. 

325
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,600
If they're born perfect, they 
can't be role models for 

326
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,360
anybody. 
Yeah. 

327
00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:57,000
And I think. 
What's also amazing, just if I 

328
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,720
may add to that, is that we 
don't have one central figure 

329
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:01,920
that we look at as like, oh, 
this is the hero. 

330
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,600
I think that we every, it's a 
kind of like a, you know, 

331
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,480
there's, it's like a whole 
family of people we can learn 

332
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,360
from and everybody has their 
strengths and weaknesses. 

333
00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:14,640
And, and it's that to me is 
like, those are true heroes 

334
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:18,640
because I can, I can understand 
the humanness of these people 

335
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:20,680
and how they're, how they have 
to overcome this. 

336
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,280
And then it inspires me to try 
to, you know, see like, hey, if 

337
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,200
they can do it, I can do it. 
You know, it's sometimes if 

338
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:32,600
you're if, if the hero is too 
supernatural or perfect, it, it 

339
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,640
kind of makes you think like 
you're a different species and 

340
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:37,920
like you can't even overcome 
your own problem. 

341
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:39,440
So I think that's very 
significant. 

342
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:43,520
And also I love how the the 
total aspect of that you were 

343
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:48,480
talking about before, how you 
translated that as as a like a 

344
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,560
legacy. 
Legacy, I think fits perfectly 

345
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:56,000
like you mentioned it it in the 
first told don't mention it 

346
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,040
wouldn't make sense to be called
offspring. 

347
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,200
So that was a very interesting 
point And Ben, see if you could 

348
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,640
take so. 
You outline a unique threefold 

349
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:06,760
understanding of history in 
Genesis. 

350
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,240
Can you describe their approach 
and how it informs your 

351
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:13,960
interpretation of the patriarch 
of the of the narratives of that

352
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:15,200
vote? 
Yeah. 

353
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,480
This is the part that I thought 
would get me into a lot of 

354
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:26,320
trouble. 
And again, it it comes from 

355
00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:30,920
reading from reading the text. 
I break history down and all 

356
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:35,600
three parts are are evident in 
say Fabreciate basically takes 

357
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:40,280
us from through the first stage,
the second stage and and and 

358
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:45,600
begins the third stage. 
The the first stage I call 

359
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,080
prehistory. 
It talks about literally the 

360
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:54,000
things that happened before 
history was possible, before 

361
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,480
people were writing anything 
that that's the definition of 

362
00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:02,200
prehistory. 
It and the prehistorical section

363
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:10,240
of of the Torah to me includes 
the sections in which the world 

364
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:16,080
doesn't look at all like the 
world that we know, right? 

365
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,000
Gunneden Gunneden doesn't look 
at all like the world that we 

366
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:24,920
know. 
Life spans of people, people 

367
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:30,640
living 900 plus years doesn't 
look anything like the world 

368
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,920
that we know. 
Like 900 plus years means 

369
00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:39,120
they're almost gods like a 1000 
years because was considered in 

370
00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:41,080
the ancient world. 
If you live the fact the gods 

371
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,160
lived 1000 years and more, 
right? 

372
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,600
So and and nobody goes to 1000, 
right? 

373
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,680
It's all they're all under 1000,
right? 

374
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,880
The point being is that it's 
it's describing prehistory. 

375
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,000
It's a world that stopped 
existing. 

376
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,040
The Mabul. 
The Mabul erased everything. 

377
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,760
So there's no history, It's all 
prehistory, right? 

378
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,600
So the Mobuli erased everything.
The story of McDonald Bevel 

379
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,920
basically erased everything that
came beforehand. 

380
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,440
They completely reshaped the 
entire world as we know it. 

381
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:20,920
And it's probably one story 
afterwards. 

382
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:26,280
I think the destruction of Sodom
is also one of these, you know, 

383
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:27,920
one of these stories that I 
would consider like a 

384
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:32,920
prehistorical story. 
The, the section of the Torah 

385
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:37,000
that's prehistory is not 
necessarily meant to be taken at

386
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,800
face value. 
You're not supposed to. 

387
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,920
I, I, I don't think the ages 
there are so that we can create 

388
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,560
a timeline and figure out 
exactly how old the world is. 

389
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,360
The ages are all symbolic. 
It all means something. 

390
00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:55,960
The fact that they all live in 
those first 10 generations, 900 

391
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,440
plus years, with a few 
exceptions, right? 

392
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:00,800
So let's take some of the 
exceptions. 

393
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:05,120
You have a guy called Lemech who
lives 777 years. 

394
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:13,000
That's not an accidental #770 
it's like 7 sevens. 

395
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,120
There's something about it. 
And Lemech was the 7th 

396
00:25:16,120 --> 00:25:19,240
generation, right? 
That Lemech was right. 

397
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:21,640
You have somebody else called 
Hanoch. 

398
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:27,120
He lives for 365 years. 
Exactly a year it's a. 

399
00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:31,160
Year of years, right? 
Those are symbolic numbers, 

400
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,200
right? 
So Hanoch is meant to be a 

401
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,840
symbolic character. 
Lemic has a symbolic character 

402
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,920
and all of it, all the 
characters in the in the in the 

403
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:45,760
world of prehistory. 
So were there individuals who 

404
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,400
existed? 
Sure, I'm sure there were. 

405
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,800
I'm sure. 
But it does make a difference, 

406
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,440
right? 
The story is there, especially 

407
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,080
in parachat. 
Brief sheet in parachat. 

408
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:59,320
No, all the stuff that you have 
there is not to teach us what 

409
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:05,000
happened, but is there to give 
us almost a biography. 

410
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,600
Who's God? 
What's man? 

411
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:16,640
What does it mean to be human 
and what are the limitations of 

412
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,320
being human? 
What's the definition of being 

413
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,120
human? 
What's the nature of 

414
00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:22,880
relationship between Hashem and 
people? 

415
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:28,560
You make in your introduction, 
you make a point which really 

416
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,800
hit me when you wrote it, in 
that you see that the Torah 

417
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,440
doesn't even refer to those 
times similar as it would for 

418
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:40,240
instance, by the snake talking. 
It's considered as if nothing's 

419
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,480
happening, like it's a. 
It's a normal event, unlike the.

420
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:44,280
The donkey, the talking when the
donkey. 

421
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,280
'S talking when we're back into,
you know, actual history, right?

422
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,960
It says, and God opened the, 
the, the that one's mouth 

423
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:52,720
because it's, it's an irregular 
event. 

424
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:57,120
It's pointing that out, yet with
the snake, it's talking and 

425
00:26:57,120 --> 00:27:01,360
it's, and it's just, it's, I've 
assumed it's a casual, you know,

426
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,520
when, when you put that in 
there, I really thought about 

427
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,800
it. 
I'm like, wow, that is a really 

428
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:08,680
important. 
If a person really thinks about 

429
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,320
that, it really frames things 
for you. 

430
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,280
It's almost like the Torah is 
framing it for you, right? 

431
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,400
Just read what's there. 
It's, it's, it's telling you 

432
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:16,840
without telling you. 
You know what I mean? 

433
00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:19,200
I just wanted to add that point 
you made 'cause I think it 

434
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,360
really you, you backed up your 
point with that very well. 

435
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:24,960
OK, so. 
So that, so that's the 

436
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,920
prehistory. 
And then I'm gonna, I'm gonna 

437
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:33,200
jump from the prehistory right 
to history, right, where 

438
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,120
people's lifespans are just 
about the same as we have now. 

439
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:44,240
Where the events are, are events
that are for the most part 

440
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,560
natural events except where 
Hashem intervenes. 

441
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,320
And like you just said, Ben C 
and he tells us that he's 

442
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,120
intervening, right? 
Like the Makotin Mitzrayim. 

443
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,640
So I believe the Makotin 
Mitzrayim are at this part of 

444
00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,920
the historical portion of of 
Tanakh. 

445
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,400
I think the historical portion 
of Tanakh actually begins with 

446
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:09,400
Yosef. 
His life really follows. 

447
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,120
It's a, it's a natural path. 
There's dividing guidance in 

448
00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:14,640
there. 
We know over the divine 

449
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,440
guidance. 
Yosef's challenge, by the way, 

450
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,200
is he has to discover the divine
guidance. 

451
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,200
Everybody else around him sees 
it except himself. 

452
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,080
Takes him a while to figure that
out, right? 

453
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,400
But Yosef, I think, is the first
really historical figure that we

454
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,360
have. 
And then you know everything 

455
00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:34,960
that comes afterwards and when 
Hashem intervenes, when there 

456
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,200
are Makoto Mitzrayim is Kriyat 
Yamsuf. 

457
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,960
Those are supernatural. 
And Hashem is not ashamed to say

458
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,800
the supernatural and not ashamed
to say I did something 

459
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:49,600
supernatural right and and right
and, and, and those are the, the

460
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,360
signs that Hashem is, is, is 
intervening in the, in the 

461
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,640
affairs of, of humanity. 
So you have the historical 

462
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,360
portion of portion of Tanakh, 
which is most of Tanakh starting

463
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,480
at the end of safer breath sheet
and going onwards, you have what

464
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,640
I call the prehistorical portion
of Tanak where the world doesn't

465
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,680
look anything at all like like 
we know. 

466
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,800
And what's interesting is that 
in those first 10 generations, 

467
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,720
people live 900 plus years, 
except for those two exceptions.

468
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:23,800
And then after the Mabul, 
there's a transitionary period. 

469
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:29,080
Instead of living almost 1000 
years, people living almost 500 

470
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:35,400
years, time spans are halved. 
And after the story of Bevelle, 

471
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,640
right, the big doll bevel about 
what people say or the city of 

472
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,560
Bevelle, may I like to say it, 
life spans are halved again. 

473
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:52,880
OK, so they go from from almost 
1000 to almost 500 to 200 in the

474
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:54,560
range of 200. 
That's the way it is for a few 

475
00:29:54,560 --> 00:30:00,240
generations and then, right. 
So it is clearly a transitionary

476
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,360
period and and the Torah is 
trying to let us know that we're

477
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:08,400
transitioning from prehistory 
into what I call protohistory. 

478
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,280
If you ask me to define 
protohistory, it's really hard. 

479
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,560
It's something between the 
prehistorical section of Tanakh,

480
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:21,480
which I don't feel compelled by 
any stretch of the imagination 

481
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:26,400
to take, to take literally, have
to read it literally in order to

482
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:30,200
understand it. 
I can't just take the words and 

483
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,520
say they mean something to no, I
read it literally, so I so I 

484
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,200
understand it. 
But the messages are universal 

485
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,200
messages of in in the prehistory
prehistorical period. 

486
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,840
When we move out of the 
prehistorical period, we move 

487
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:51,920
into what I called protohistory.
I would be hard pressed to find 

488
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,360
exactly what that means. 
It's something between 

489
00:30:54,480 --> 00:31:00,200
prehistory and and history. 
It's where the events look and 

490
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,400
sound very much like the world 
that we know. 

491
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,800
The one difference is the 
lifespans are basically double. 

492
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:12,640
People live to 170 years. 
OK, our lifespans are 85 years. 

493
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:17,360
We live to 150 years, right? 
So it the the lifespans are are 

494
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:23,360
basically double and that's that
that to me says the message is 

495
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:32,000
this looks almost like your 
world almost right. 

496
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:37,760
And the characters of that proto
history are the prototypes. 

497
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,800
So it's not just proto history, 
but they're all, everyone of 

498
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,760
them is a prototype. 
And we call them the avote. 

499
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,440
Yeah, both in the EMA Holt are 
the prototypes. 

500
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,920
The prototypes are what the 
Torah describes to us in the 

501
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,240
section of the homage. 
That's proto history. 

502
00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:01,320
So they're not just individuals,
but they're also, they're also 

503
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:08,080
the prototypes for, for really 
the foundations of who we are, 

504
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,360
who we are as individuals and 
who we are as a people. 

505
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:13,560
The. 
Ramban I think also goes with 

506
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,080
that, right? 
The Ramban also characterizes 

507
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:20,280
them as prototypes 100%. 
I I look that and and that I 

508
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,920
think is the definition of what 
it means to be one of the Avote 

509
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:31,480
Yosef has never never called one
of the Avote Yosef is not a 

510
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,440
prototype. 
He's an individual. 

511
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,400
And you see that also he lives 
to 110. 

512
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,480
He doesn't live like, like his 
father or his grandfather, 

513
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:45,400
right? 
110 is already really, really 

514
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,400
close to the, to the world that 
we know. 

515
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,120
So I that's why I say Yosef is 
the first really historical 

516
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,360
character into. 
The it's very interesting 

517
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,800
because you know, at the you 
know, the during the Mabul, I 

518
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,560
mean there's this pronouncement 
that people won't live till 

519
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:07,000
after 120 years and we see 
continue people are living 

520
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,040
beyond that until Yosef. 
So it's very, very interesting 

521
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:11,520
point that you. 
Make. 

522
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,840
Yeah. 
So now just shifting gears. 

523
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,520
How do you deal with biblical 
criticism in your book while 

524
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,800
remaining rooted in traditional 
frameworks? 

525
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,440
How do you balance critical 
analysis with the reverence for 

526
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,320
the text? 
And how do you differentiate 

527
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,240
between Shot and Josh in your 
approach? 

528
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,040
That, that, that, that that's a 
lot of questions. 

529
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:37,240
I'm worried about that. 
That's OK, That's OK. 

530
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:42,800
So let let me look when it comes
to biblical criticism. 

531
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,480
So there are a lot of different 
kinds of biblical criticism. 

532
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:51,720
And you know, I'm, I'm not a, 
I'm not a great scholar of 

533
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,000
biblical criticism, but I do 
read some of some of their 

534
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,240
stuff. 
I think the questions that they 

535
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:01,200
ask are usually extraordinary 
questions. 

536
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,680
Not always. 
Sometimes they're really poor 

537
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,000
questions because they're just 
not reading the text well. 

538
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,719
But I think often the questions 
are really good and they force, 

539
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:19,600
they force me to think the 
questions force me to think the 

540
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:24,840
the answers that the biblical 
critics offer usually leave me 

541
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:31,040
saying that's not possible and 
not possible. 

542
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,400
Because if you say that, then 
the Torah becomes meaningless. 

543
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,960
It just robs the Torah of any of
its meaning. 

544
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,239
And I find a lot of it to be 
highly speculative. 

545
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,360
They're theories. 
They're, they're all theories. 

546
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:58,800
And I find, I just find the, 
the, the approach is really 

547
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,440
highly speculative, often not 
grounded. 

548
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,040
So I'm familiar with the 
biblical criticism. 

549
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:11,960
It doesn't interest me as much 
as it helps to inform me of what

550
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,200
I should be looking at in the 
text, what are the questions to 

551
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,640
be asking? 
And for that, I think, I think 

552
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,040
it's been, it's been very 
helpful. 

553
00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:25,920
So that's not really something I
spend a lot of a lot of time on.

554
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:32,640
But critical analysis, well, we 
do critical analysis in every 

555
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:36,080
other thing that we do. 
And truth is, you know, you look

556
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,720
at all that we've shown you, all
that we've shown you did 

557
00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:41,800
critical analysis of the text. 
They. 

558
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,320
Read it really carefully. 
That's what critical analysis 

559
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:46,520
is. 
They read it really carefully. 

560
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,920
They look for patterns, they 
look for things, they look for 

561
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:53,320
anomalies for things, if for 
things that stand out and things

562
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,960
that jump out. 
You know some of them are 

563
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,880
looking for for grammatical 
things, some of them are looking

564
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:03,240
for patterns of words. 
Hazal did that in the midrashim.

565
00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:10,120
You know the take take the the 
all the stories of Yaakov. 

566
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,120
So you know I can write 2 
chapters on it. 

567
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:14,880
Hazal will say it in one 
midrash. 

568
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,360
They'll have they'll have a 
single midrash that talks about 

569
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:24,840
the the phrase Hakirli. 
Well, hakir na hakir na Yakov is

570
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:31,880
the first one to say hakir na 
right or or meaning in the story

571
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:36,760
of him taking the brachot right 
for Lohiki Roach and that that 

572
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:41,480
Yiska didn't recognize him and 
that that Lohiki ro comes back 

573
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,280
to haunt Yakov afterwards. 
Let me drop some comments on 

574
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,320
this. 
I didn't make this up, right? 

575
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,800
It comes to haunt to me 
afterwards, right? 

576
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,120
It haunts to me afterwards with 
the switching of Rachel and 

577
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,040
Laya. 
I haunts to me afterwards when 

578
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,200
they sell, when the brothers 
sell Yosef and they bring the 

579
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:03,280
Katunet to Yaakov. 
Hakuna Hakunet Binuka, right, 

580
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,840
comes up with a story of you who
then Tamar, right? 

581
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:15,400
Hakuna the Miyako right? 
So though that that's critical 

582
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,000
reading, that's critical 
analysis. 

583
00:37:17,720 --> 00:37:19,400
You're you're looking and you're
looking carefully. 

584
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:26,000
What, what, what choices did 
Hashem use in writing this and 

585
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,600
why did he make those choices? 
Was he trying to communicate 

586
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:30,800
through those choices? 
That's critical reading. 

587
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,280
That's critical analysis that 
biblical criticism is reading 

588
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,280
critically. 
Everybody who learns Gemara 

589
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,760
reads learns to read critically.
Everybody learns Rashi learns to

590
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,280
read critically. 
Why shouldn't we be be learning 

591
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,480
how to read critically in Humash
also? 

592
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:47,880
I'm not, and again, I'm not 
talking about the academic 

593
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,880
biblical criticism. 
I'm talking about just reading, 

594
00:37:51,120 --> 00:38:00,840
reading the Tarah the way it is 
so, so and, and, and, and that 

595
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,840
reading critically is the way 
you show reference for the text,

596
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,280
because if you don't read it 
critically, then you're saying 

597
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:11,640
that the words don't make a 
difference. 

598
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:16,600
They're not important. 
When you read it critically, 

599
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,600
you're actually saying this is a
work that's so important that 

600
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,880
you have to pay attention to 
every word, every phrase, right?

601
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,200
And what what it's doing there 
and, and what are the patterns? 

602
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,960
The patterns aren't accidental. 
What are the structures in this 

603
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,040
safer than that accidental. 
The structures teach us a 

604
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,600
tremendous amount. 
All of that is part of critical 

605
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:38,840
reading, and you learn so much 
from that. 

606
00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:41,960
I would not do the same thing 
with a novel that I pick up. 

607
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:49,800
And you know, it that that's 
something I always maybe it's 

608
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,920
just me, but you know, like 
people giving like, you know, 

609
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,800
warts and like nice to our 
Torres, which I'm not, I'm not 

610
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,600
criticizing it like it's not not
a bad thing. 

611
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:03,840
But what I see is like almost 
like the text becomes just like 

612
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:09,440
a, like a canvas just to throw 
in project some ideas, you know,

613
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:14,600
and this taking the text 
seriously is is a lost ark 

614
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:16,920
which. 
Recently. 

615
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:20,240
Has started to to pick up more 
steam and we see it being done 

616
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:25,080
more and more. 
But you know, my, my memories 

617
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:29,120
growing up was always that I 
always felt almost like it's 

618
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,680
almost like that It doesn't like
you said it literally the way 

619
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:33,440
you said it like it's almost 
like it doesn't matter what it 

620
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:37,760
says, you know what I mean? 
We just take the an idea or a 

621
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:42,560
vort or a drusha or a midrash. 
You know, even midrash needs to 

622
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,040
be critically analyzed like you 
mentioned, right? 

623
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:50,040
It's not, it's not just, you 
know, you know, so one of the 

624
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:54,560
most refreshing things about 
your book and a lot of the 

625
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,560
authors of Ghosh is that like 
you said, they take the text 

626
00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,640
seriously. 
And now you really are grappling

627
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:03,000
with the text. 
And, and like, I think like you 

628
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,400
say that that that that 
encourages more reverence 

629
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,640
because because you're actually 
you're, you're, you're zooming 

630
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:12,440
in on what the Torah is saying 
and you're not just zooming in 

631
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,640
on a projected idea. 
You. 

632
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:19,440
See the complexity of it all and
how, how it's, it's not just by 

633
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,040
accident. 
There's, there's a lot. 

634
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:25,960
It's just structured in a way 
that it's clearly sophisticated 

635
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,320
and pointing at being 
intertextual and all that. 

636
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,320
So yeah, it's an excellent 
point. 

637
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,320
May I? 
One second, go back to the 

638
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,000
previous question. 
I just wanted to clarify 

639
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,800
something for myself if that's 
regarding the history, so the 

640
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,320
proto history, I just want to 
clarify. 

641
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:46,920
So when you're saying that's not
history, like in the terms of 

642
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,520
yourself, I'm just trying to 
make sure you don't mean 

643
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,720
necessarily that 
Avramitsakanyakov didn't exist 

644
00:40:52,720 --> 00:40:55,120
at all or that these stories 
didn't exist at all, but that 

645
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,520
the way the Torah is bringing 
out these stories, there is 

646
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:02,120
elements that are being put in 
that are not necessarily meant 

647
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,040
to be historical. 
But pointing, like you said, the

648
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:06,880
ages, right? 
Or are you saying that the 

649
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:11,680
entire in in your estimation is 
the entire all the stories 

650
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,520
universal without any historical
backing tip? 

651
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:22,640
So, you know, I, I I hesitate 
being too precise, not because 

652
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:26,800
I'm scared too, but because I'm 
not sure exactly how to define 

653
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:30,160
this. 
Fair enough. 

654
00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:31,800
And that's that's why I 
hesitate. 

655
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,240
Do I believe that there was a 
character called Abraham? 

656
00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:41,200
Absolutely. 
OK Yeah. 

657
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:45,760
If you try pinning me down to 
say, OK, do I believe that 

658
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,000
Abraham lived exactly that many 
years? 

659
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:53,280
And so, you know, could it have 
been Abraham? 

660
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:57,480
Could it have been could there 
have been Abraham? 

661
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,800
And I, I, I don't know. 
Yeah, it it's. 

662
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:04,000
And that's why I, I don't like 
to define it because I really 

663
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:05,480
don't know. 
I. 

664
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,600
Know that it's. 
I know that it's not in the 

665
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:11,680
prehistory, and I know that it's
not I I I, I sense. 

666
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:15,320
I shouldn't say I know, but I 
sense that it's not part of the 

667
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,400
historical portion of Tanakh. 
And yet the I believe the 

668
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,040
characters lived. 
I, I, the stories. 

669
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:25,720
I I, the stories that happened 
to them are true and yet, and 

670
00:42:25,720 --> 00:42:27,800
yet. 
There's something about it in 

671
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:32,680
the way the homage presents it, 
even if only their ages, but 

672
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,120
there's something about it that 
says that these characters are 

673
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,400
larger than life and not just 
individuals. 

674
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,480
I I. 
Totally see that actually, if 

675
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,160
even we've talked about this 
before with the Rambam 

676
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,040
explaining like every time 
angels are mentioned in the 

677
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,200
story, it's it's a nivoir. 
I mean, the Torah says also 

678
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:53,000
talks about dreams. 
You know, that's how prophets 

679
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,280
receive prophecy. 
But we get introduced to Avraham

680
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:59,400
through a vision, right? 
He's he's, he's meeting these 

681
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:00,800
angels. 
And then throughout there's 

682
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,320
appearance of an Angel in Saddam
and Akada and all these things. 

683
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:10,040
So it's almost telling us that 
this is not, this isn't there's.

684
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:11,440
More than Angel, right? 
Right. 

685
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:12,960
There's. 
More that's going on. 

686
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,360
It's not just this, you know, 
pointing towards. 

687
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,480
There's a, there's a mysterious 
to, to all of it in a sense. 

688
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,680
There's a, there's a mysterious 
overtone to everything. 

689
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:26,160
So what? 
So and, and that's, that's fair.

690
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:30,960
So, so we, it's almost like we, 
we sense that they exist, but we

691
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,680
also sense that there's that the
tour is, is, is is telling us 

692
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:37,160
more than just that, that it's 
one beyond than just a 

693
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:38,920
historical retelling. 
And like you said, there's a, 

694
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,760
you know, universal aspect 
that's being, in a sense, 

695
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,440
inserted into these characters, 
into these stories and into 

696
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,880
their lives. 
I just wanted to clarify that I 

697
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:49,280
thought it was important. 
Sorry if I OK. 

698
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:51,080
No problem. 
We. 

699
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:52,720
We. 
Hope you have more time. 

700
00:43:52,720 --> 00:43:56,720
But we we wanted to get into the
Garden of Eden as a covenant 

701
00:43:56,720 --> 00:43:59,320
narrative, that the Garden of 
Eden's story is often seen as a 

702
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,120
foundation, as foundational to 
human divine relationships. 

703
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,520
How do you interpret this 
narrative in light of the 

704
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:13,040
covenantal theme? 
So you know, one, one of the 

705
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:18,800
things they argue is that is 
that there's actually a 

706
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:24,280
covenant, there's a breed in the
Torah that predates any of the 

707
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,160
breed totes that are actually 
listed. 

708
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:28,120
The first breed in the Torah is 
the breed with Noah. 

709
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:30,080
That's the first one that's 
explicit. 

710
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:34,880
And yet when you take a look, 
you know the verb that the Torah

711
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:40,720
always uses for establishing a 
breed is this wrote breed to cut

712
00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:44,000
the Hakim breed means to uphold 
it. 

713
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,320
So if you take a look at the in 
the beginning of Parashat Noah, 

714
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,160
Hashem tells Noah what's going 
to happen. 

715
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:57,280
He says Bahaki moti ET briti ETA
I will uphold my my breed 

716
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:03,040
through you, right. 
This is before the Mabul after 

717
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,040
the Mabul. 
He establishes a breed with with

718
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:13,000
Noah, but but beforehand he says
I will uphold the breed through 

719
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:15,080
you. 
That suggests that there's a 

720
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,680
breed which is implied that 
predates Nawakh. 

721
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:21,800
That breed, I think is inherent 
in creation. 

722
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:33,120
The breed is that Hashem creates
a human and and the human has 

723
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:37,880
the capacity for good because 
the human has Selim and leukem, 

724
00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:41,600
but the human also has a 
capacity for not good because of

725
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:45,960
Celame leukem. 
And the breed that Hashem that 

726
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:49,920
sort of implied is that Hashem 
is going to create this human 

727
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:56,000
and let that human survive even 
if the human doesn't do with his

728
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,200
celame leukem what Hashem wants 
him to do. 

729
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,680
That's, that's the implied 
covenant, right? 

730
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,080
Because normally, you know, I, I
have a deal with somebody and 

731
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:11,440
here's a, here's $100. 
I want you to invest it for me. 

732
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:16,920
And if you blow it, then our 
relationship is over, right? 

733
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:20,400
But here Ashem says, I'm going 
to give you this celame leukem. 

734
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:27,480
And even if you blow it, I'm not
giving up on you that. 

735
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:31,080
And that's the implied breed in 
which is I think, implied in the

736
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:37,240
very nature of creation with 
this comes out in a slightly 

737
00:46:37,240 --> 00:46:40,560
different in a slightly 
different way in the story of 

738
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:45,080
Gun Aiden. 
I when I read the story of Gun 

739
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:52,160
Aiden it, there are there are 
parts of it that seem seem too 

740
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:56,080
difficult to read at face value,
not just about a talking snake, 

741
00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:01,960
but when you look at at the way 
the story is structured, Hashem 

742
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:06,040
and and this is basically the 
story of bait and peri gimmel of

743
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:13,040
of Brisheet. 
Hashem creates a garden and then

744
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,440
puts the crazy human to put into
the garden. 

745
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:18,320
OK, And in this garden are two 
trees. 

746
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:26,760
What's that all about? 
This is a human who right now 

747
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,600
does not have the capacity to 
choose between Tov and Rob. 

748
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:36,200
And he gives the human an 
instruction and says, OK, don't 

749
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:40,520
eat from that tree. 
And you know what happens? 

750
00:47:42,240 --> 00:47:46,920
Nothing. 
You know in in in the story that

751
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:50,080
the Afghan Aiden, there is no 
sense of time. 

752
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:55,240
Time is all over pericolephant 
sacred breachit. 

753
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,760
You have you have days, right? 
You have Daisy. 

754
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:01,440
Forget about what those days 
mean, but there are days. 

755
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:03,480
There's Yom and Leila and there 
are days. 

756
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:07,480
There's a sense of time in the 
second in, in in bait, bait and 

757
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:10,520
parakumo. 
There's zero sense of time, 

758
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:19,080
which means that I'm just it is 
possible that that first human 

759
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:23,680
Adam, the man, he's a he doesn't
have a name yet. 

760
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:27,320
He's just the man, he's the 
human, but he doesn't get a name

761
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:29,480
until much later where he's 
called Adam. 

762
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:32,480
And that's a, that's the, you 
know, at the end of the story, 

763
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:39,760
but he's just the man and he's 
in there in the garden and it's 

764
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,720
a perfect world and nothing 
happens. 

765
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:51,520
Maybe it was like that for a 
million years nothing happened. 

766
00:48:52,240 --> 00:48:53,880
Why? 
Because Hashem said don't eat 

767
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:55,400
from that tree. 
So of course he didn't eat from 

768
00:48:55,400 --> 00:49:00,080
the tree. 
He doesn't have the capacity to 

769
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:03,000
betray that. 
I said don't. 

770
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:08,040
OK, it's off limits, that's all.
If you read this story that way 

771
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:11,720
and you understand that humans 
are basically immortal right 

772
00:49:11,720 --> 00:49:14,280
before they leave Ghanaid, then 
humans are basically immortal, 

773
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:16,760
right? 
The Aidsaheim they can eat from,

774
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:22,000
it's not a problem because 
they're immortal anyway, right? 

775
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:26,720
But it's the 8th Tovara, which 
is problematic right there. 

776
00:49:26,720 --> 00:49:29,480
There's a lot more to this, but 
I'm just sort of, you know, 

777
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:33,320
trying, trying to give you a 
like a, a short version. 

778
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:39,040
If you take a look at the way 
this story is written, at some 

779
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:44,360
point, Hashem says, Oh, this 
isn't good low tof. 

780
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:48,600
It's the first low tof. 
All of Bresci Pericola is Ketov.

781
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:52,680
All of a sudden he creates the 
human, puts him into the garden 

782
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:54,920
and everything's perfect. 
And Ashem says low tov. 

783
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:00,680
Well, of course it's low tov 
because the human isn't really 

784
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:04,320
fully human yet. 
The rest of the story of 

785
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:09,280
Ghanaian is how Hasheman gets 
the human to become human, as 

786
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:12,920
human as as we know it right at 
this point, that human is more 

787
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:15,120
more like an Angel than he is 
like a human. 

788
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:18,640
He does exactly as he's told 
that that's the, to me, the 

789
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,560
definition of what Amalah is, is
a shaliak. 

790
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:25,000
That's what that word malach 
means doesn't mean a heavenly 

791
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:27,040
being. 
It means a Shaliak. 

792
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:28,920
He has a mission. 
He follows through on the 

793
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:33,840
mission and that's it. 
He can't do anything outside of 

794
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:39,480
that mission. 
So that's low toe because Hashem

795
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:44,120
has basically created a flesh 
and blood version of a malach, 

796
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:48,000
which is worthless. 
It's like me running a computer 

797
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:53,440
program that says Gromit, you're
amazing and I program it in to 

798
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:59,040
flash every 3 seconds. 
As long as my electricity 

799
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:02,520
doesn't go down, I'm amazing. 
But it's worthless to have a 

800
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:04,400
computer program tell me that 
I'm amazing. 

801
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:08,200
That's meaningless. 
And remember, Hashem wants to 

802
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:12,600
have a relationship with people.
That means for what becomes 

803
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:17,760
meaningful is for someone to 
say, Hashemi, you're amazing and

804
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:23,640
do so out of choice, not do so 
because they're programmed to do

805
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:28,080
so. 
That's, that's greatness. 

806
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:31,240
That's, that's true relationship
with unions. 

807
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:35,360
That's true Sheva Rashem. 
When we hear the midrashem 

808
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:37,680
talking about the malachim 
singing God's praises, that's 

809
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:40,680
worthless. 
He told them to do it. 

810
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:43,120
Of course they get into it. 
They have no choice. 

811
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:47,840
It's like Hashem praising his 
singing his own praises. 

812
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,600
But for a human to do that, 
that's unbelievable. 

813
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,120
This human is not capable of 
that. 

814
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:59,400
Yet this human is nothing more 
than a programmed being. 

815
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,120
He said don't eat from the 
Azadat tovara. 

816
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:03,760
He doesn't eat from the Azadat 
tovara. 

817
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:08,680
And he says this is not working.
Low tov, it's not working. 

818
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:13,080
You know what? 
Let me let me find a way to get 

819
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:16,440
him closer to that. 
Oh, sorry. 

820
00:52:18,240 --> 00:52:20,760
So. 
It the way the story is actually

821
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:26,000
set up, every step of that 
story, Hashem is taking one more

822
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:30,480
step to get the human to eat 
from the tree that he said don't

823
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:35,880
eat from because he wants that 
human to become human, but he 

824
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:39,520
wants the human to own the fact 
that he became human. 

825
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:47,480
So, Loto, you need a helper. 
Azer Kanegdo. 

826
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,480
Well, guess what? 
We don't know how long that 

827
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:53,400
lasted either. 
Before. 

828
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:56,720
Before Ashem intervenes yet 
again. 

829
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:00,480
She's there. 
He told her you can't eat from 

830
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:01,760
the tree. 
She didn't eat from the tree. 

831
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:03,560
He didn't eat from the tree. 
They went on the merry way. 

832
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:07,240
Could have lasted a million 
years, or 7 billion years. 

833
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:09,600
Or 15 billion years. 
I don't know. 

834
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:14,000
Right, because time is 
meaningless when you have no 

835
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:16,400
lack of time and you have 
Infinity. 

836
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:18,840
So time is meaningless. 
And that's why there's no time 

837
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:21,240
there in that whole story, 
because it's completely 

838
00:53:21,240 --> 00:53:25,160
meaningless. 
It's only half the words that 

839
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:28,840
Hashem introduces. 
The third character, that 

840
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:33,600
character is a nahash. 
What does that nahash do? 

841
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:35,960
That nahash doesn't go to the 
man. 

842
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:41,280
The man can't be swayed because 
he got a direct command from 

843
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:45,240
Hashem. 
The woman, however, never got a 

844
00:53:45,240 --> 00:53:50,480
direct command from Hashem. 
The woman got an indirect 

845
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:54,240
command from the man. 
So he says something. 

846
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:56,320
The snake says something 
different. 

847
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:59,560
She now has to weigh in her 
head, well, which one's right? 

848
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:02,600
That's an intelligent being who 
speaks. 

849
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:05,160
He says that if he eats from the
tree, you're going to die. 

850
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:08,200
This one says, is there also an 
intelligent being? 

851
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:10,680
It speaks and it says, no, if he
eats from the tree, you're going

852
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:13,280
to become God. 
Like you can become a Yudea 

853
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:17,320
Tovara. 
And she has to every day she has

854
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:21,720
to decide which one's right. 
And maybe that conversation 

855
00:54:21,720 --> 00:54:33,160
happened a million times, right?
So it so the story of Ghanaian 

856
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:35,280
is the story of how humans 
become human. 

857
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:39,000
And it's precisely because 
humans become human that Hashem 

858
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:40,440
established as a covenant with 
them. 

859
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:44,040
And. 
The the punishment is actually a

860
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:46,680
sense of time, right? 
Death means that there's a 

861
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:50,080
limited amount of time, which so
which goes with what you were 

862
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:53,560
saying, yeah. 
So yeah, I'm, I'm hesitant to 

863
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:55,640
use the word punishment because 
the question. 

864
00:54:55,720 --> 00:54:58,320
Is leading the question of yes, 
yeah, it's. 

865
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:01,240
It's almost a natural 
consequence, correct? 

866
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:04,160
You become a Yodea Tovara, 
right? 

867
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:06,640
So therefore you cannot be 
immortal anymore. 

868
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:09,880
That's my definition, that's 
right there. 

869
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:13,480
There is a being, by the way, 
that can be immortal and Yodea 

870
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:18,720
Tovara that session. 
Uh huh. 

871
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,480
He's he's infinite, but he 
carries me. 

872
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:25,280
But he has he's not, he's not 
limit. 

873
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:28,720
He's not limited to meaning from
from his infinitude. 

874
00:55:29,240 --> 00:55:30,320
That's correct. 
That's. 

875
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:32,560
Interesting. 
You know, and I was thinking, as

876
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:35,680
you were saying this, the 
concept of Ezra Kenegdo. 

877
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:39,280
I mean, I think just on a very 
practical level, you know, 

878
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:43,840
people with relationships mostly
with, with, with their, with 

879
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:47,520
their wives or conversely with 
their, with their husbands, You 

880
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:50,920
know, we kind of want like a, 
like a, you know, someone who's 

881
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:53,600
gonna sit there and tell you how
amazing you are every day, you 

882
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:57,320
know, but but you know, real 
growth is when you're actually 

883
00:55:57,360 --> 00:55:59,600
connected. 
Meaning for Hashem to have an 

884
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:02,120
actual meaning with humanity, he
needed to give them that. 

885
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:04,760
He needed he needed them to be 
able to oppose him. 

886
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:10,360
Interestingly, when it comes to 
marriage or joining of the man 

887
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:15,600
and the woman, that's that that 
opposition is also used as a 

888
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:19,040
connecto and that opposition is 
also a good meaning to our 

889
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:21,040
relationships and also like. 
So we shouldn't. 

890
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:24,920
Be looking for like you know the
the you know the yes man yeah 

891
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:26,640
build. 
Building off of that, Yaakov 

892
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:30,120
this week's partial that we just
went over, which was Yaakov 

893
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:32,040
blessing his sons. 
It's not the blessing that we 

894
00:56:32,720 --> 00:56:33,960
what we consider blessings, 
right? 

895
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:36,520
But it's more like a insight 
into the character of his sons. 

896
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:38,960
He's critiquing them, giving 
them constructive criticism. 

897
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:41,680
The only way to really grow is 
to know your strengths and your 

898
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:44,440
weaknesses, right? 
You, that's the biggest bracha. 

899
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:47,520
I'm telling you what you, what 
you're capable of doing, both 

900
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:50,720
good and bad. 
I think that also ties into this

901
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:54,880
message and, and, and on another
note, it just this whole 

902
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:58,560
narrative really, I think for 
me, the Rambam's explanation 

903
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:00,440
really speaks to me because 
clearly this is about the human 

904
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:03,160
condition. 
This is a very universal 

905
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:04,280
message, as you mentioned 
before. 

906
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:07,880
But in the second section of the
Moray he discusses, you know, 

907
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:11,360
Adam being the soul and Khabab 
being the body and the Nahash 

908
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:17,720
Nahash's desire and right, the 
whole punishment is that Hashem 

909
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:21,440
is not punishment, but when, 
when, when, when they sin, 

910
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:24,760
right? 
He, he says, how can you, why 

911
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:26,760
are you blaming me? 
Blame the woman that you gave 

912
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:29,920
me, which, and on a spiritual 
level, it kind of makes sense 

913
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,840
because it's saying that, you 
know, I have a body, right? 

914
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:35,120
And the body naturally will have
desires. 

915
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:40,800
So how can you punish the soul 
for the for the, the desires and

916
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:43,080
the physicality and the 
materialism that you gave me? 

917
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:44,440
That's naturally going to 
happen. 

918
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:48,000
So I think that there's so much 
to unpack. 

919
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:51,000
Obviously here this, we can't do
it justice in one podcast or 

920
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:53,960
probably in a million podcast, 
but I just find that there's so 

921
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:57,360
many layers and deep, you know, 
messages here that we can 

922
00:57:57,360 --> 00:57:59,160
unpack, which is really 
exciting. 

923
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:03,440
The the whole thing with Hashem 
being infinite yet carrying 

924
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:06,040
caring meaning is like something
that's blowing my mind as I'm 

925
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:09,120
thinking about it right now. 
OK, so I, I never thought about 

926
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:12,880
it like that. 
On to Abraham. 

927
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:16,600
So Abraham's journey is central 
to the establishment of the 

928
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:20,160
covenant. 
Personally, what I'm asking you 

929
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:22,200
to speak about is probably my 
favorite part of the book. 

930
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:26,440
It's just everything in your 
book is incredible, but just 

931
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:30,080
something about this, really. 
It was like everything about it.

932
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:33,680
So how does this challenge 
evolve in the transition from 

933
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:36,560
Laca to Vieira, particularly 
with the news of Sarah's 

934
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:42,040
pregnancy? 
OK, so this this is one of my 

935
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:44,520
favorite pieces. 
I mean, I have a lot of favorite

936
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:48,240
pieces in, in Sacred Brexit. 
This is one of my favorite 

937
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:52,360
pieces in Sacred Brexit. 
You know, growing up, you 

938
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:54,000
described how you were taught 
homage. 

939
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:56,440
I was taught homage probably the
same way that many of you were 

940
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:59,640
taught homage. 
And you know, we learned how 

941
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:03,760
much with Rashi. 
And you know, Hashem tells 

942
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:06,480
Abraham at the end of how he's 
going to have a kid, and Abraham

943
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:10,880
laughs and Hashem doesn't get 
upset. 

944
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:21,160
And Sarah laughs when she hears 
the news and Hashem does get 

945
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:24,520
upset and Rashi gives his own 
his old explanation. 

946
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:26,600
If even though it's the same 
exact word that's used in the 

947
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:29,640
Hebrew, Rashi says no one of 
them would meant it was happy. 

948
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:32,960
And the other one means that as 
she was mocking. 

949
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:38,720
And you know, given that it's 
the same exact word and two 

950
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:43,400
Prakhim 1 exactly right after 
the other, I was always, always 

951
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:46,280
distressed by that. 
And you read the story really 

952
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:49,240
carefully. 
It turns out that Hashem is not 

953
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:51,920
upset with Sarah for laughing. 
He doesn't rebuke her. 

954
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:55,480
He's upset with Avraham for the 
fact that Sarah laughs. 

955
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:00,880
You know, it's one thing for 
Avraham to hear from Hashem 

956
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:03,480
directly. 
You know, laughter, by the way, 

957
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:06,520
makes sense. 
He's 99 years old. 

958
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:09,360
He's childless. 
I mean, he has used my ill, but 

959
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:12,520
he's basically childless. 
And, you know, in terms of 

960
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:14,520
Sarah, and Hashem tells him 
you're going to have a kid from 

961
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:16,280
Sarah. 
She's 90 years old. 

962
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:21,240
She's barren. 
And Avraham laughs because 

963
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:23,880
that's what we that's our 
response when we hear something 

964
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:28,120
absurd. 
That's what laughter is. 

965
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:31,160
It's a response to something 
that it's so absurd it's funny, 

966
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:34,520
right? 
Avraham thinks that message is 

967
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:37,720
absurd and he laughs. 
Hashem doesn't get upset with 

968
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:43,680
him because that's a normal, 
healthy response to hearing 

969
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:45,960
that. 
Your barren wife who's post 

970
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:50,560
menopausal, not just barren, but
she's barren and she's after 

971
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:53,440
menopause that she's going to 
bear a child in another year. 

972
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:56,560
It's it's just an absurd 
message. 

973
01:00:56,800 --> 01:01:00,280
Doesn't mean that Avram doubted 
whether Hashem could do that or 

974
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:03,200
not. 
It's just an absurd, right. 

975
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:06,480
It's hard to wrap your head 
around it. 

976
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:08,960
Yeah. 
So it it's it's just absurd. 

977
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:16,280
Sarah hears it not from Hashem 
and not from Avraham. 

978
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:18,640
She hears it from three 
strangers. 

979
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:24,120
She overhears a conversation 
between three who thinks, she 

980
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:27,080
thinks are three normal 
travellers. 

981
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:31,000
And these three normal 
travellers tell Avram that Sarah

982
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:32,880
is going to have a kid. 
And she laughs. 

983
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:36,600
That's a perfectly normal 
response. 

984
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:43,280
There's no reason for Hashem to 
get upset with that response, no

985
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:46,960
more than if somebody knocked on
your door and said, by the way, 

986
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:51,640
you just won the lottery, here's
a billion dollars, but I didn't 

987
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:56,720
play, right. 
You see you're laughing already,

988
01:01:58,080 --> 01:01:59,160
right? 
Sorry, I didn't play the 

989
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:01,320
lottery. 
And somebody knocked on her door

990
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:02,880
and said you want, you just won 
a lottery. 

991
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:09,160
It's absurd. 
The reason Ashem gets upset is 

992
01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:11,120
why is this the first time that 
she's hearing this? 

993
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:20,760
Why didn't Avraham tell her? 
If he would have told her, maybe

994
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:24,040
she wouldn't have laughed. 
But the fact that she's laughing

995
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:26,840
points to something. 
Avraham didn't share this with 

996
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:31,280
her. 
And you know, even though the 

997
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:33,560
two, the two proc you are 
written right next to each 

998
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:35,640
other. 
And now she following the 

999
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:38,440
Midrash says, you know, there 
was this was three days after 

1000
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:40,760
the brief milah. 
I think if you read the care of 

1001
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:42,600
the text carefully, it's 
actually three months. 

1002
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:47,360
You can tell it's three months 
because in the previous Parekh 

1003
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:50,320
Hashem says a year from now 
she's going to give birth. 

1004
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:53,720
And here these three guys say 
kait haya. 

1005
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:58,240
Kait haya literally means in the
time it takes to give birth, a 

1006
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:02,360
kait is a pregnant woman. 
So Kait Haya is in, in the 

1007
01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:06,440
period of pregnancy, nine months
from now, she's going to, she's 

1008
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:09,480
going to bury your child. 
So there were three months. 

1009
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:13,960
But in those three months, Avram
told Sarah that my name is 

1010
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:16,800
changed to Avraham, your name 
is, is changed to Sarah. 

1011
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:19,280
He's told her all sorts of other
things that Shem came and 

1012
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:20,840
established with this covenant 
with me. 

1013
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:25,960
I'm, I'm going to do some 
surgery now on myself, on 

1014
01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:28,800
Ishmael and all the other males 
in our household. 

1015
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:33,960
So we've had time to do all this
stuff and he forgot to tell 

1016
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:37,200
Sarah that she's going to give 
birth, that she's going to have 

1017
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:41,480
a child. 
So Hashem comes and rebukes 

1018
01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:44,040
Avraham. 
That's what I think was the 

1019
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:47,880
whole purpose of that. 
That entire scene is to rebuke 

1020
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:57,160
Avraham for not sharing with 
Sarah and that that scene is 

1021
01:03:57,160 --> 01:04:01,600
actually inserted right the 
opening of the story and Rambam 

1022
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:04,680
points this out and all the 
partial name point this out that

1023
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:07,520
the opening of the story seems 
like it has no continuation by 

1024
01:04:07,520 --> 01:04:09,240
you. 
I love Hashem beggar name Amre 

1025
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:14,080
and there's no conversation. 
So Rambam has there's an. 

1026
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:18,440
Interruption, right? 
I read that as an interruption 

1027
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:23,720
and after this scene with the 
three guys is over, Vashem Ammar

1028
01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:28,000
Hashem said. 
That is why that takes us right 

1029
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:32,240
back to the beginning. 
Avraham A Sharaniyosa. 

1030
01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:39,600
What I am doing as a, as, as a 
covenantal partner with Avraham 

1031
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:43,200
is I am sharing with him the 
important things. 

1032
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:46,200
I'm about to destroy Saddam. 
He's my partner. 

1033
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:50,200
I have to tell him, well, I'm 
modeling that for you, Avraham. 

1034
01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:53,720
But before I do that, you know, 
I have to let you know that 

1035
01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:56,560
you're supposed to have included
Sarah and. 

1036
01:04:56,600 --> 01:04:59,680
And you didn't. 
And that's the rebuke. 

1037
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:04,120
It's such an incredible trap. 
Yeah. 

1038
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:05,960
Really amazing. 
Amazing stuff. 

1039
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:09,960
So jumping to the next part, 
which is Yitzhak's role in the 

1040
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:11,720
covenant. 
Yitzhak is often viewed as a 

1041
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:14,000
transitional figure in the 
patriarchal narrative. 

1042
01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:17,560
What is his unique covenantal 
challenge and how do you begin 

1043
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:19,920
to see his character arc unfold 
in Genesis? 

1044
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:24,040
And just to piggyback of what 
you just said, this lack of, you

1045
01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:29,360
know, conversation between 
Avraham and and Sarah, we we see

1046
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:33,040
like it's almost it's very 
striking that Yitzhak and Rifka 

1047
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:35,360
don't communicate. 
That's that's just something 

1048
01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:37,960
that jumps out. 
Yes, it. 

1049
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:40,600
Does jump out. 
Yitzhak, by the way, is the only

1050
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:42,640
one of the upvotes whose name 
doesn't get changed. 

1051
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:44,720
Yeah, I was. 
Thinking about that when you 

1052
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:46,040
were mentioning the name 
changes. 

1053
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:49,320
Right. 
And I, I think that's 

1054
01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:53,280
interesting when you take a look
at the Yitzhak story. 

1055
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:57,400
And again, there's a, there's a 
lot to try to pack into a, you 

1056
01:05:57,400 --> 01:06:01,400
know, a, a podcast over here 
when you take a look at the 

1057
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:07,320
Yitzhak story. 
What's interesting is I'll just 

1058
01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:09,560
going to try to do this really 
briefly. 

1059
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:14,280
The opening of Yitzhak's story 
is he copies Avraham. 

1060
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:22,120
The closing of Yitzhak's story 
is he copies Avraham, right? 

1061
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:25,360
But there's a difference. 
In the beginning, he copies 

1062
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:32,360
Avraham blindly, without 
thinking, and he fails 

1063
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:35,600
miserably. 
He goes down to Guerrero and 

1064
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:38,080
tries passing off his wife as 
his sister. 

1065
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:40,280
And how do you explain the twin 
boys? 

1066
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:46,640
And he doesn't know that you're 
supposed to close the window 

1067
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:51,440
shades, right? 
So that Abby Miller doesn't see 

1068
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:53,640
that you're doing things with 
your sister that people don't 

1069
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:57,400
usually do with their sisters, 
right. 

1070
01:06:57,400 --> 01:06:59,080
Meaning he, he just doesn't get 
it. 

1071
01:06:59,840 --> 01:07:03,320
And then afterwards, so this is 
a year of famine. 

1072
01:07:03,880 --> 01:07:08,120
There's a drought in the land. 
And Yezhak invests in farming. 

1073
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:11,440
He's the only one of the alvo to
farm. 

1074
01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:17,360
Everybody else with shepherds. 
Yezhak invests in famine in 

1075
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:21,560
invests in farming. 
In the year of famine, there's 

1076
01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:23,240
no reason for him to have 
succeeded. 

1077
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:29,080
Any success he has is not due to
his own credit. 

1078
01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:30,920
It's because Hasha made him 
successful. 

1079
01:07:31,240 --> 01:07:34,600
He got back 100 times his 
investment. 

1080
01:07:34,960 --> 01:07:37,120
He became instantaneously 
wealthy. 

1081
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:40,560
So Yitzhak is doing a lot of 
things there. 

1082
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:44,760
And then he starts digging wells
and he does re digs his father's

1083
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:48,400
wells, His father, Doug Wells, 
The police team stuffed them up.

1084
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:50,800
He goes and re digs them, calls 
them the same names. 

1085
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:52,120
You wouldn't even know what 
those names are. 

1086
01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:53,880
Calls them the same names that 
his father. 

1087
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:59,440
He's just mimicking his father. 
That's, that's the beginning. 

1088
01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:04,840
That's early Yitzhak, right? 
Late Yitzhak. 

1089
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:07,080
He, he actually ends up doing 
the same thing. 

1090
01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:10,120
He digs wells, but now he's not 
digging his father's wells. 

1091
01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:16,560
He's digging his own. 
And he gives them names and 

1092
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:21,479
eventually he digs well, when 
the name sticks and was actually

1093
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:25,439
a name that his father had given
and it didn't stick and Yitzhak 

1094
01:08:25,439 --> 01:08:29,720
made it stick. 
OK, So in terms of Yitzhak's 

1095
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:33,359
personal character, right? 
I think what Yitzhak really 

1096
01:08:33,359 --> 01:08:37,880
represents, he's very passive. 
There's only one Perak in all of

1097
01:08:37,880 --> 01:08:39,560
Tanaka, which Yitzhak is really 
active. 

1098
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:43,160
And that's the story of the 
Wells signs that Yitzhak is 

1099
01:08:43,160 --> 01:08:46,680
primarily a passive guy. 
Things are done to him. 

1100
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:49,920
Things are done around him. 
He doesn't do a lot of the 

1101
01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:52,200
doing. 
This is the only place where we 

1102
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:56,120
see him doing the doing. 
This is where Yitzhak becomes 

1103
01:08:56,120 --> 01:09:01,160
his own person, and the person 
he chooses to become is the 

1104
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:06,359
carbon copy of Abraham, meaning 
he goes from copying Abraham 

1105
01:09:06,359 --> 01:09:11,800
blindly to saying no, my job is 
to follow in my father's 

1106
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:15,160
footsteps. 
There's an element of greatness 

1107
01:09:15,160 --> 01:09:20,680
in that right saying, no, I am 
not going to innovate. 

1108
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:22,319
I am not going to do something 
new. 

1109
01:09:22,319 --> 01:09:23,880
I'm not going to blaze my own 
path. 

1110
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:29,080
My father created a good path. 
I am going to actively choose to

1111
01:09:29,080 --> 01:09:32,800
follow that path. 
And that's who Yitzhak becomes 

1112
01:09:34,520 --> 01:09:38,600
that that captures it. 
Avraham has to, you know, we 

1113
01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:41,439
need, we need 10 procurement 
about Avraham to find it, to 

1114
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:45,000
figure out who he becomes. 
And Yitzhak takes just a single 

1115
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:49,520
Perak. 
He becomes the link, which is so

1116
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:54,000
powerful because how many of us 
are going to become innovators 

1117
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:57,040
in the world? 
So right, or leaders in the 

1118
01:09:57,040 --> 01:09:58,920
world. 
You need followers too. 

1119
01:10:01,320 --> 01:10:03,600
And, and Yitzhak is the 
prototype of the follower. 

1120
01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:07,560
He's the prototype of the person
who chooses to follow because 

1121
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:12,800
that's what they will do best. 
Beautifully said. 

1122
01:10:13,080 --> 01:10:14,480
Beautiful. 
All right. 

1123
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:19,520
And. 
So moving on to Yaakov, Yaakov's

1124
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:21,400
path to establishing the 
covenant is fraught with 

1125
01:10:21,400 --> 01:10:24,040
personal and relational 
struggles. 

1126
01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:27,240
What role does Raquel play in 
his journey, and how does her 

1127
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:29,360
presence shape the covenant? 
The legacy. 

1128
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:34,200
So you like the shadowing? 
Of course you like that piece. 

1129
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:40,800
This is also the truth is this 
is more about Raquel than about 

1130
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:45,680
Yaakov. 
Raquel is when we, when we meet 

1131
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:48,800
her, she's a little bit of a 
troubling character. 

1132
01:10:52,200 --> 01:10:54,560
You know, Yaakov loves her. 
It never says that she loves 

1133
01:10:54,560 --> 01:11:01,000
him. 
You never see that, you know, 

1134
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:05,040
and the Mid Rashim, I think the 
Mid Rashim do her tremendous 

1135
01:11:05,040 --> 01:11:07,200
disservice. 
You know, the Mid Rashim that's,

1136
01:11:07,200 --> 01:11:11,440
you know, talk about how she 
helped, she helped Leia deceive 

1137
01:11:11,440 --> 01:11:15,200
Yaakov in order to protect 
Leia's dignity. 

1138
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:17,960
The Keys. 
The the signs. 

1139
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:24,760
Yeah, that with the the signs. 
So, you know, it's, it's a true 

1140
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:28,080
act of Chester to her sister, 
but a true act of cruelty to 

1141
01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:33,120
Yaakov. 
How can you do that to him? 

1142
01:11:34,320 --> 01:11:38,720
So Rachel is a is a, is a is a 
difficult character. 

1143
01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:41,400
What Yaakov sees in her is not 
clear. 

1144
01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:45,320
I think when you look in the 
humash, what he sees in her is 

1145
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:51,560
that she's a shepherd. 
She's like him now. 

1146
01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:52,800
And now I'm going to frame 
something. 

1147
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:54,360
I don't think I've ever framed 
it this way. 

1148
01:11:54,760 --> 01:12:00,280
So he thinks that she's just 
like him, and it turns out that 

1149
01:12:00,280 --> 01:12:04,240
she's actually not like him. 
Yaakov, by his nature, is not 

1150
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:06,080
devious. 
He was forced into that. 

1151
01:12:07,880 --> 01:12:11,960
Raquel by her nature is devious,
right? 

1152
01:12:12,200 --> 01:12:14,400
And that's where I think the 
Madras is coming from, which is 

1153
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:17,400
she played a very active role in
that whole in in that whole 

1154
01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:18,840
deception. 
Amazing. 

1155
01:12:19,080 --> 01:12:20,440
Never thought. 
About it, that is amazing. 

1156
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:24,360
OK. 
OK, so and this goes back to 

1157
01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:26,160
Ben, See what you were talking 
about earlier. 

1158
01:12:27,400 --> 01:12:31,240
He thought she was going to be 
his Azar the best way. 

1159
01:12:31,240 --> 01:12:34,920
To help was by being a negative.
Right. 

1160
01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:41,200
And so when you don't, when you 
don't understand that she's a 

1161
01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:45,360
very troubling character, she 
turns to Avraham out of 

1162
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:50,320
bitterness and say, Gimme kids. 
Well, honey, I'm trying. 

1163
01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:55,960
You know, it's not all up to me.
What do you mean, Gimme kids? 

1164
01:12:56,320 --> 01:12:58,880
Does she think he's holding back
on her in some way? 

1165
01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:02,400
Right there, there. 
There's something that that that

1166
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:05,800
doesn't sound, I mean, it sounds
childish and petulant to me. 

1167
01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:08,760
And then, you know, they, I, I 
want the flowers on Reuven's 

1168
01:13:08,760 --> 01:13:11,560
flowers. 
Like there's something about 

1169
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:14,480
that that bothers us, Like we 
don't understand it, which is 

1170
01:13:14,480 --> 01:13:17,080
why all the all the mafershim 
have to, you know, come up with 

1171
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:19,400
explanations that are going to 
sound less troubling. 

1172
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:23,000
But the Hamas presents it 
presents this as a a little 

1173
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:26,960
troubling. 
I think the redemption, Raquel's

1174
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:31,320
real redemption, comes when she 
uses her deviousness for good 

1175
01:13:31,320 --> 01:13:36,080
things, when she uses it to 
undermine Yaakov in a way that 

1176
01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:38,000
Yaakov can never thank her 
enough for. 

1177
01:13:39,680 --> 01:13:45,160
You know, when, when Yaakov 
Yaakov, what we can actually say

1178
01:13:45,160 --> 01:14:01,000
about him is you until, until 
the end of of of which parsha by

1179
01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:03,240
Yeatsay, until the end of 
Parashat by Yeatsay. 

1180
01:14:03,480 --> 01:14:10,760
Yaakov avoids all conflict. 
He runs away from conflict at 

1181
01:14:10,760 --> 01:14:12,760
the end of a Yeatsay, he 
confronts Lavon. 

1182
01:14:14,280 --> 01:14:19,000
That's the first time you see 
Yaakov engaging actively, right?

1183
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:20,720
Why did that? 
And, and from that point 

1184
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:25,120
onwards, he actually engages. 
He, he engaged Lavon, he's going

1185
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:30,960
to engage Asav, right? 
He's going to engage Hamor of 

1186
01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:35,440
Isham in his own way and Rachel 
gets all the credit for that 

1187
01:14:35,440 --> 01:14:37,080
turn around. 
He forced his. 

1188
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:38,720
Hands. 
Basically yes. 

1189
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:44,040
Because they they were going to 
sneak out of Lovan's house And. 

1190
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:49,960
And Lovan, right. 
Lovan catches up to Yaakov. 

1191
01:14:49,960 --> 01:14:51,760
You look at the speeches really 
carefully. 

1192
01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:57,920
Lovan gives a speech to Yaakov, 
and Yaakov basically backs down.

1193
01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:03,600
Yeah, he says, OK, search me, 
search my house, search 

1194
01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:07,120
everything you want. 
How many of us would have invite

1195
01:15:07,120 --> 01:15:10,360
somebody to come into our house 
and open our drawers and go into

1196
01:15:10,360 --> 01:15:15,800
our intimate spaces? 
That's the the ultimate act of 

1197
01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:25,360
submission. 
But what happens as a result of 

1198
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:28,680
that scene? 
Lavan had accused Yaakov of 

1199
01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:33,360
stealing his truffim, his gods. 
And when it turns out that there

1200
01:15:33,360 --> 01:15:37,520
were, that nothing was to be 
found, that's when Yaakov 

1201
01:15:38,240 --> 01:15:42,760
unleashes a very powerful speech
on Lavan. 

1202
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:47,880
And that is Yaakov's first time 
that he confronts somebody. 

1203
01:15:49,960 --> 01:15:52,640
That's his turn around. 
And one who forced that was 

1204
01:15:52,640 --> 01:15:54,520
Raquel. 
She was the one who took to the 

1205
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:57,120
truffim. 
Everybody wants to know why she 

1206
01:15:57,120 --> 01:15:59,640
took picture of fame. 
You know, her motives were this,

1207
01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:05,160
her motives were that they, when
you read the text, it looks like

1208
01:16:05,160 --> 01:16:09,640
her motives were to force Lavon 
into a confrontation with Yaakov

1209
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:14,120
in which Yaakov would would just
rise up in rebellion. 

1210
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:18,480
She I, I think she anticipated 
all that stuff happening that 

1211
01:16:18,480 --> 01:16:22,040
Obama's going to come chase them
and everything Lavon said to 

1212
01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:26,840
Yaakov, Yaakov didn't have any 
response to he basically gave in

1213
01:16:26,840 --> 01:16:28,560
to Lovan. 
But when Lovan says Llama 

1214
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:31,800
Ganafda Dalai, why'd you steal 
my gods? 

1215
01:16:33,240 --> 01:16:36,240
And it turns out that it, it was
a false accusation. 

1216
01:16:36,720 --> 01:16:40,360
I mean, it was, it was a true 
accusation, but it, but you 

1217
01:16:40,360 --> 01:16:42,880
know, he, well, only the reader 
knows that it's a true 

1218
01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:46,560
accusation, right? 
Even Yaakov didn't know there 

1219
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:52,160
was a true accusation. 
So in the end, it turns out that

1220
01:16:52,160 --> 01:17:00,160
that is what when Yaakov is 
accused of theft, for 20 years, 

1221
01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:03,360
Yaakov has been running away 
from the accusations of theft. 

1222
01:17:03,920 --> 01:17:07,880
And after 20 years of being more
honest than the Pope, Yaakov, 

1223
01:17:09,160 --> 01:17:11,080
right? 
I'm not saying anything about 

1224
01:17:11,080 --> 01:17:16,760
the Pope, but but after 20 years
of being accused of, of having, 

1225
01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:20,240
you know, look over his 
shoulder, right, of of who's 

1226
01:17:20,280 --> 01:17:24,360
honest and who's dishonest in 
this relationship, and now he's 

1227
01:17:24,360 --> 01:17:28,600
being accused of theft. 
Yakov's been trying to reclaim 

1228
01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:31,360
his reputation as a decent guy 
for 20 years. 

1229
01:17:31,640 --> 01:17:34,520
And now Lovan accusing and Yakov
loses it. 

1230
01:17:35,040 --> 01:17:38,600
And for the first time he pushes
back really hard against Lovan. 

1231
01:17:39,280 --> 01:17:42,560
That's the Connecto that Raquel 
created. 

1232
01:17:43,920 --> 01:17:45,560
Yeah. 
And by the way, the, you know, 

1233
01:17:45,560 --> 01:17:49,520
later on in their book you tied 
in, which I never really thought

1234
01:17:49,520 --> 01:17:51,400
of. 
And I thought this was this was 

1235
01:17:51,400 --> 01:17:53,720
mind blowing for me, but it's 
almost like mind blowing because

1236
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:57,680
I'm like, how did I miss this? 
But you know, when the brothers 

1237
01:17:57,680 --> 01:18:02,040
later on are are, you know, 
they're being accused of 

1238
01:18:02,040 --> 01:18:05,880
stealing the goblet of, of 
Yosef, right? 

1239
01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:10,440
And he, he basically, he, he 
plants it in the bag of you know

1240
01:18:10,440 --> 01:18:13,040
what I mean? 
The test, I was, I was OK. 

1241
01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:16,440
They're testing to see his, you 
know, the, the loyalty of the 

1242
01:18:16,440 --> 01:18:17,920
brothers towards Benjamin, 
right? 

1243
01:18:18,560 --> 01:18:22,600
But what was the real like it's 
not fair to Benjamin that he 

1244
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:25,920
should be accused of theft. 
Why theft, right? 

1245
01:18:26,480 --> 01:18:31,520
Because his mother, her 
reputation was, was that she 

1246
01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:36,160
stole the Trypheme. 
So this is a this is an ultimate

1247
01:18:36,160 --> 01:18:39,760
test because now they want to 
see if they had any respect of, 

1248
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:42,720
of Rachel, right as, as the 
beloved. 

1249
01:18:42,760 --> 01:18:45,880
And we see very clearly in 
Yehuda's speech at the end that 

1250
01:18:45,880 --> 01:18:50,360
he mentions his beloved Raquel. 
So they acknowledge that his 

1251
01:18:50,520 --> 01:18:53,280
that, that Raquel was the most 
loved by, by by Yaakov. 

1252
01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:56,880
So I think the way you tied all 
that in and that's what I love 

1253
01:18:56,880 --> 01:19:00,120
about your book. 
It's just like one thread that's

1254
01:19:00,120 --> 01:19:03,800
just the tapestry that's just 
constantly like unpacking and 

1255
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:05,840
and showing us like the 
connections. 

1256
01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:08,680
It's, it's really, I'm, I'm not 
doing it justice right now, but 

1257
01:19:08,680 --> 01:19:11,400
I, I, I get chills, you know, 
when I read these parts, it just

1258
01:19:11,400 --> 01:19:17,480
like blows my mind. 
To finish off, we want to talk 

1259
01:19:17,480 --> 01:19:22,480
about Yosef and his brothers. 
The culmination of Genesis 

1260
01:19:22,480 --> 01:19:23,840
focuses on yourself and his 
brothers. 

1261
01:19:24,120 --> 01:19:26,880
How did their struggles and 
reconciliation reflect the 

1262
01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:30,520
process of achievement achieving
the covenant, and how does their

1263
01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:42,200
journey signal its success? 
So, you know, for years, for 

1264
01:19:42,200 --> 01:19:48,240
many years, I, I felt like the 
end of Vayigash and Parshad 

1265
01:19:48,240 --> 01:19:50,960
Vayehi were sort of just like an
appendage. 

1266
01:19:52,880 --> 01:19:57,000
It was just hanging on there. 
The story, you know, when they 

1267
01:19:57,000 --> 01:20:02,200
did the play, you know, Joseph 
and the technical Dreamcoat. 

1268
01:20:02,600 --> 01:20:06,320
So the story ends with the with 
the family reunification. 

1269
01:20:07,200 --> 01:20:09,520
Everybody thinks that that's the
happy ending. 

1270
01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:12,040
That's not the happy ending at 
all. 

1271
01:20:13,840 --> 01:20:17,760
That is a false happy ending 
there. 

1272
01:20:17,880 --> 01:20:20,680
There's a whole nother story 
that happens that happens 

1273
01:20:20,680 --> 01:20:25,960
afterwards. 
That happy ending, though, is 

1274
01:20:25,960 --> 01:20:29,200
the precursor to it comes 
afterwards. 

1275
01:20:29,560 --> 01:20:32,280
And, and the reason that the 
happy ending is so is so 

1276
01:20:32,280 --> 01:20:41,480
important is if the family 
doesn't hold together, then, you

1277
01:20:41,480 --> 01:20:43,960
know, I'm going to go back to 
where we started. 

1278
01:20:43,960 --> 01:20:46,880
Hashem create creates people. 
He wants relationships with 

1279
01:20:46,880 --> 01:20:51,160
people. 
And, and it didn't work, didn't 

1280
01:20:51,160 --> 01:20:52,960
work once it didn't work a 
second time. 

1281
01:20:52,960 --> 01:20:55,680
He chose a different path. 
I'm going to start with one man.

1282
01:20:55,880 --> 01:20:57,920
He's going to have a family, 
finally get the Yakov. 

1283
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:01,200
We think that this is the family
that's going to OK, this is 

1284
01:21:01,200 --> 01:21:02,640
this, this family is going to do
it. 

1285
01:21:02,960 --> 01:21:06,760
And then there are problems. 
There's a problem with Ruhuven, 

1286
01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:10,240
the problem with Shimonon Levy, 
the problem with Yehuda. 

1287
01:21:10,520 --> 01:21:13,200
There's a problem with Yosef. 
Yaakov basically almost lost, 

1288
01:21:14,080 --> 01:21:16,800
right? 
He almost lost the whole thing. 

1289
01:21:17,360 --> 01:21:19,720
Yosef is the one who actually 
pulls it together. 

1290
01:21:20,840 --> 01:21:23,840
That that's the great irony. 
The one who is the most rejected

1291
01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:26,240
amongst the brothers is the one 
who actually creates 

1292
01:21:26,240 --> 01:21:31,120
unification. 
It's the unified family that 

1293
01:21:31,120 --> 01:21:35,000
becomes the core of the nation. 
If you take a look and safer 

1294
01:21:35,000 --> 01:21:38,080
British sheet nations are 
basically formed when people 

1295
01:21:38,080 --> 01:21:44,840
have 12 kids. 
Karan has 12 kids, Ishmael has 

1296
01:21:44,840 --> 01:21:49,480
12 kids, Yaakov has 12 kids. 
Asav is more complicated because

1297
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:54,480
he actually he has 13 because he
becomes two nations. 

1298
01:21:54,720 --> 01:21:59,400
He becomes two nations that are 
emerged Asav and Adom and emerge

1299
01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:04,000
so so Asaph is is is a little 
bit more complicated there. 

1300
01:22:04,240 --> 01:22:07,520
That's where there are two told 
oath of Asaph is told oath of 

1301
01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:12,000
Asaph who Adom and Asaph Avi 
Adom, the father of the nation 

1302
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:14,680
of Adom. 
I guess he basically merges 

1303
01:22:14,880 --> 01:22:18,840
himself, his nation together 
with Sahir and that that's, 

1304
01:22:18,840 --> 01:22:31,880
that's the end of but the coming
together as a family is, is not 

1305
01:22:31,880 --> 01:22:37,720
the end, but it's what allows 
the covenant to continue through

1306
01:22:37,720 --> 01:22:41,320
this family. 
That in itself is not a 

1307
01:22:41,320 --> 01:22:44,360
confidental statement. 
But now that we have a nation, 

1308
01:22:44,680 --> 01:22:48,640
now Hashem says, OK, well, we 
have the the kernel of the 

1309
01:22:48,640 --> 01:22:50,200
nation. 
The 12 is the kernel of the 

1310
01:22:50,200 --> 01:22:53,240
nation. 
Now this kernel has to grow into

1311
01:22:53,240 --> 01:22:54,960
a nation. 
This is going to be the people 

1312
01:22:55,240 --> 01:22:58,040
that are going to be my 
messengers to the rest of 

1313
01:22:58,040 --> 01:23:00,240
humanity. 
This is, by the way, what I talk

1314
01:23:00,240 --> 01:23:03,440
about in in my next book, which 
is coming out very soon. 

1315
01:23:03,680 --> 01:23:08,000
That's Harcini by pericute tetev
Seifish Mote attempt to use the 

1316
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:11,200
Mamlukhat Kohanim Vigori Kadosh.
What are kohanim? 

1317
01:23:11,520 --> 01:23:14,800
Kohanim with the bridge between 
God and and and people. 

1318
01:23:15,400 --> 01:23:18,200
But if the whole nation is a 
nation of Kohanim, so who are 

1319
01:23:18,200 --> 01:23:19,080
they? 
Who are they? 

1320
01:23:19,080 --> 01:23:20,800
The bridge between bridging to 
the world. 

1321
01:23:21,280 --> 01:23:22,960
Right. 
A bridge between Hashem and the 

1322
01:23:22,960 --> 01:23:26,760
rest of the world, right? 
That starts when we have the 

1323
01:23:26,760 --> 01:23:29,680
kernel of a nation. 
The kernel of the nation happens

1324
01:23:29,680 --> 01:23:35,640
when all 12 are together. 
Yosef is the one who engineers 

1325
01:23:35,640 --> 01:23:37,440
that. 
It's a long story. 

1326
01:23:37,440 --> 01:23:40,720
We all know that. 
And as I see, if you read the 

1327
01:23:40,720 --> 01:23:43,960
books, then you know that the 
story is actually even longer 

1328
01:23:43,960 --> 01:23:49,720
than we think, right? 
But but that's, that's the role 

1329
01:23:49,720 --> 01:23:52,680
that that plays. 
It's they they become the kernel

1330
01:23:52,680 --> 01:23:58,360
of the nation and that that's 
not the confident, but it is the

1331
01:23:58,360 --> 01:24:00,640
family. 
This is the family that is the 

1332
01:24:00,640 --> 01:24:03,880
kernel of the nation that Hashem
is going to then build his 

1333
01:24:03,880 --> 01:24:06,280
relationship through them to all
of humanity. 

1334
01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:10,560
Amazing. 
I, I think that one of the 

1335
01:24:10,560 --> 01:24:14,520
lessons I take from all of this 
is that us OK, so this is the 

1336
01:24:14,520 --> 01:24:18,320
message to Amisrael, right? 
This whole book that that we 

1337
01:24:18,360 --> 01:24:23,240
are, we may, we may, you know, 
go astray for a while and we may

1338
01:24:23,880 --> 01:24:27,120
be violating the covenant, but 
Hashem is constantly waiting for

1339
01:24:27,120 --> 01:24:31,120
us and giving us opportunities 
to be part of this partnership, 

1340
01:24:31,120 --> 01:24:33,880
right? 
It's not, but it's on us to 

1341
01:24:33,960 --> 01:24:35,160
keep. 
We have to keep our end of the 

1342
01:24:35,160 --> 01:24:37,240
bargain. 
And as long as we keep our end 

1343
01:24:37,240 --> 01:24:40,600
of the bargain, then we, we are 
now, we are following in the 

1344
01:24:40,600 --> 01:24:43,840
footsteps of the Evolt, right? 
We are, we are carrying on their

1345
01:24:43,840 --> 01:24:45,280
legacy. 
We can't carry on their legacy 

1346
01:24:45,280 --> 01:24:48,960
if we're not, you know, 
observing the breeds and and 

1347
01:24:48,960 --> 01:24:51,840
maintaining the breeds. 
So I think for us, the message 

1348
01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:53,960
is very powerful. 
You know, especially in a world 

1349
01:24:53,960 --> 01:24:57,720
that says, oh, the Jews are no 
longer part of the breeds and 

1350
01:24:57,720 --> 01:24:59,480
all that the breed is a is a 
choice. 

1351
01:24:59,480 --> 01:25:01,720
It's an active choice that we 
can make at any point. 

1352
01:25:02,600 --> 01:25:08,320
So to me, I think that that just
speaks to me, if you. 

1353
01:25:08,320 --> 01:25:12,920
To take a look at the end of the
toka in in beautiful Kotai, 

1354
01:25:14,560 --> 01:25:17,080
you'll see almost that exact 
message. 

1355
01:25:18,040 --> 01:25:21,040
The very, very end of the Torah,
right? 

1356
01:25:21,040 --> 01:25:24,720
That all the bad things that 
happened are not because Hashem 

1357
01:25:24,720 --> 01:25:27,560
has rejected us, but exactly the
opposite. 

1358
01:25:27,920 --> 01:25:33,680
He rejected us. 
He wouldn't care if he's if he's

1359
01:25:33,680 --> 01:25:37,840
doing these things to us, it's 
because He does care, because he

1360
01:25:37,960 --> 01:25:39,560
never gives up on us. 
Never. 

1361
01:25:39,600 --> 01:25:42,360
Not till the end when we're 
constantly messing up. 

1362
01:25:42,400 --> 01:25:44,560
I think that's another amazing 
feature of Tanakh. 

1363
01:25:44,560 --> 01:25:47,440
We're constantly messing up. 
He's constantly staying with us 

1364
01:25:48,000 --> 01:25:49,840
and he's giving us. 
It's like the way we would be 

1365
01:25:49,840 --> 01:25:52,440
with our own children. 
You know, it just makes sense. 

1366
01:25:52,800 --> 01:25:54,720
They can keep messing up, but 
they're always going to be our 

1367
01:25:54,720 --> 01:25:57,120
children. 
So, you know, we're not going to

1368
01:25:57,120 --> 01:25:58,640
leave them. 
We're not going to abandon them.

1369
01:25:58,880 --> 01:26:00,400
I, I, we really want to thank 
you. 

1370
01:26:00,400 --> 01:26:01,920
This was unbelievable. 
Appreciate it. 

1371
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:03,160
Very. 
Much you know you're. 

1372
01:26:03,160 --> 01:26:06,160
You're you're like I said 
before, you know, I keep singing

1373
01:26:06,160 --> 01:26:09,200
your praises, but your your book
is one of the best I've read on 

1374
01:26:09,200 --> 01:26:12,160
on old Genesis. 
And I highly recommend that 

1375
01:26:12,160 --> 01:26:16,840
everybody get this book. 
It's just amazing. 

1376
01:26:16,880 --> 01:26:20,240
You know, it gives it gives you 
chills on almost every chapter. 

1377
01:26:20,240 --> 01:26:23,880
So we really want to thank you 
for that and thank you for 

1378
01:26:23,880 --> 01:26:26,560
joining us. 
My pleasure Javlotov. 

1379
01:26:27,520 --> 01:26:29,720
OK. 
Chevroletov And it was wonderful

1380
01:26:29,720 --> 01:26:31,960
talking to you guys, meeting you
and talking to you guys. 

1381
01:26:32,400 --> 01:26:33,400
Thank you very. 
Much.