1
00:00:06,690 --> 00:00:10,530
Welcome to Judaism, Demystified,
a podcast for the perplexed. 

2
00:00:11,050 --> 00:00:12,930
We are joined by Rabbi Jeremy 
Weeder. 

3
00:00:13,370 --> 00:00:16,450
Rabbi Weeder is the Joseph and 
Gwendolyn Strauss Professor of 

4
00:00:16,450 --> 00:00:20,530
Talmud at the Rabbi Isaac El 
Hanan Theological Seminary of 

5
00:00:20,530 --> 00:00:24,490
Yeshiva University and an 
adjunct Professor of Bible at 

6
00:00:24,490 --> 00:00:27,730
Yeshiva College. 
He is the Scholar in Residence 

7
00:00:27,850 --> 00:00:31,730
at Congregation Kahilati Shurun 
in Manhattan, a graduate of 

8
00:00:31,730 --> 00:00:35,300
Yeshiva College. 
He was ordained by RIETS and 

9
00:00:35,300 --> 00:00:39,860
holds a PhD in Jewish Studies 
from New York University. 

10
00:00:40,460 --> 00:00:43,260
Rabbi Weider maintains an 
abiding interest in Tanakh and 

11
00:00:43,260 --> 00:00:45,300
leaning. 
He's published 2 complete 

12
00:00:45,300 --> 00:00:49,980
recordings of the full Torah and
Haftara cycle, one in Havarah 

13
00:00:49,980 --> 00:00:54,420
Ashkenazit and one in Havarasa 
Faridit, and is the voice behind

14
00:00:54,420 --> 00:00:59,050
the leaning on yutorah.org. 
He is a Rosh Yeshiva at the 

15
00:00:59,050 --> 00:01:02,570
Rabbi Isaac Al Hanan Theological
Seminary of the University 

16
00:01:02,570 --> 00:01:05,209
located in Washington Heights 
neighborhood of Manhattan, NY. 

17
00:01:05,850 --> 00:01:09,290
Rabbi Weider was one of the 
first Americans to win the 

18
00:01:09,290 --> 00:01:14,090
International Bible Contest and 
later graduated summa cum laude 

19
00:01:14,530 --> 00:01:19,970
from Yeshiva University in 1991 
and received an Ms. in American 

20
00:01:19,970 --> 00:01:23,130
Jewish History from the Bernard 
Revel Graduate School. 

21
00:01:23,420 --> 00:01:26,820
Of Jewish Studies. 
In 2005, he received a PhD in 

22
00:01:26,820 --> 00:01:29,660
Hebrew and Judaic Studies at New
York University. 

23
00:01:30,140 --> 00:01:34,500
He's a resident of Teaneck, NJ 
Every wieder has over 500 

24
00:01:34,500 --> 00:01:37,700
lectures on Judaism captured on 
media and available online. 

25
00:01:38,060 --> 00:01:40,060
He lives in Teaneck with his 
wife and two children. 

26
00:01:40,460 --> 00:01:42,860
Without further ado, Rabbi 
Wieder. 

27
00:01:50,500 --> 00:01:53,820
Thank you for joining the 
Judaism Demystified podcast. 

28
00:01:55,230 --> 00:01:58,670
Materialism is an existential 
issue that threatens the Modern 

29
00:01:58,670 --> 00:02:02,470
Orthodox community, from lavish 
Passover programs to over the 

30
00:02:02,470 --> 00:02:05,510
top parties to exorbitant 
yeshiva tuition cost that some 

31
00:02:05,510 --> 00:02:08,389
have called country clubs for 
the elite. 

32
00:02:08,710 --> 00:02:11,550
Can you assess the current 
situation in our communities? 

33
00:02:12,910 --> 00:02:15,190
So firstly, thank you for 
inviting me on. 

34
00:02:15,230 --> 00:02:20,950
It's a pleasure to be here. 
Once again, the our community is

35
00:02:21,070 --> 00:02:23,590
a very wealthy community, 
although the wealth isn't evenly

36
00:02:23,590 --> 00:02:27,280
distributed. 
And it like the rest of American

37
00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:30,280
Society particularly wealthy 
American Society but not only it

38
00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:34,520
is a very consumerist society 
and and that can and that 

39
00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,520
consumption fundamentally is 
very often conspicuous 

40
00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:39,400
consumption. 
It's not something that's behind

41
00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:45,280
doors that people don't see and 
and in some ways it is it's it's

42
00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:49,760
a bar to people entering when 
you have this type of wealth in 

43
00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:53,840
a community or this type of 
standard the. 

44
00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:59,280
Expectations in some parts of 
the community are to my mind 

45
00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,360
absurd. 
The expectations of what people 

46
00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,480
will spend on smoke, what people
will do on vacations. 

47
00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,040
And it's a problem not only for 
the people who stretch to make 

48
00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:10,800
those who really can't afford 
it. 

49
00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,640
And it's not only a problem for 
the people who are envious, the 

50
00:03:15,640 --> 00:03:17,840
have nots in the community, 
which is really terrible. 

51
00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,000
It's also bad spiritually for 
the people who are engaged in 

52
00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:22,800
this. 
So I would say that the 

53
00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,660
situation in. 
Many parts of our community, and

54
00:03:26,660 --> 00:03:29,500
I would say this is true for the
Ashkenazi community, It's true 

55
00:03:29,500 --> 00:03:31,980
for at least some parts of the 
of the society community. 

56
00:03:31,980 --> 00:03:34,860
I know the Syrian community. 
This is not a small issue. 

57
00:03:34,860 --> 00:03:39,300
I have a a friend who has worked
there as an educator for years. 

58
00:03:39,940 --> 00:03:43,260
The way he describes it to me is
that you can live in in Flatbush

59
00:03:43,540 --> 00:03:45,540
but you also have to have a semi
home and deal. 

60
00:03:46,010 --> 00:03:48,130
And that's not sufficient 
because you have to go to the 

61
00:03:48,130 --> 00:03:51,130
right vacation spots during the 
winter and if you don't, your 

62
00:03:51,130 --> 00:03:52,770
children are not going to have 
to do home right. 

63
00:03:52,770 --> 00:03:55,890
You have to, it has to be in VI 
Guess and VI Guess in the way I 

64
00:03:55,930 --> 00:03:58,010
would term it. 
And that's really, that's 

65
00:03:58,010 --> 00:03:59,930
terrible, It's terrible for 
everybody involved. 

66
00:04:01,130 --> 00:04:04,370
So I would say that is a very 
challenging situation. 

67
00:04:09,250 --> 00:04:14,530
So regarding, you know, the 
Torah mandates a redistribution 

68
00:04:14,530 --> 00:04:17,329
of wealth. 
Giving to Dhaka and Masa. 

69
00:04:17,730 --> 00:04:21,050
And on the other hand, America 
is a capitalist system that 

70
00:04:21,050 --> 00:04:24,930
focuses on the individual, seems
to counter the communal model 

71
00:04:24,930 --> 00:04:29,250
that the Tor requires of us. 
So there are those who are going

72
00:04:29,250 --> 00:04:32,250
to defend the opulent lifestyle 
by saying, hey, I check every 

73
00:04:32,250 --> 00:04:35,410
box of being charitable by the 
letter of the law. 

74
00:04:36,050 --> 00:04:39,010
What's wrong with throwing half 
of you know I can afford it. 

75
00:04:39,010 --> 00:04:42,250
I can have a big party. 
And there are those who say this

76
00:04:42,250 --> 00:04:45,330
attitude goes against Tor value.
So where do we draw the line? 

77
00:04:45,830 --> 00:04:50,230
And are the top like 10% that's 
A responsible for setting a 

78
00:04:50,230 --> 00:04:53,430
certain tone? 
That there's a lot there. 

79
00:04:55,030 --> 00:04:57,950
So let me before I talk about 
the last piece, I think it's 

80
00:04:57,950 --> 00:05:01,950
worth exploring very briefly the
assumptions, the beginning of 

81
00:05:01,950 --> 00:05:07,230
that question which the Torah 
mandates that a redistribution 

82
00:05:07,230 --> 00:05:08,710
of wealth giving mice and 
stocka. 

83
00:05:09,870 --> 00:05:14,070
I don't know if the if the term 
would be a redistribution of 

84
00:05:14,070 --> 00:05:16,640
wealth. 
I think if one were to step back

85
00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:22,040
and and take a broader view, the
Torah economic system originally

86
00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:26,560
that was designed to prevent an 
inequitable distribution of 

87
00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:31,120
wealth, namely the system of 
Yeova and the system of Schmita,

88
00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,040
both Schmita's carcas, but 
particularly Schmita's stuff in 

89
00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,800
the this out the the solution of
the loans at the end the Schmita

90
00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:40,640
cycle, the fact that all the 
fields went back to the original

91
00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:48,580
owners in the Yeova year. 
So that seems to be designed to 

92
00:05:48,620 --> 00:05:52,700
ensure that wealth, wealth and 
poverty are not entrenched. 

93
00:05:52,700 --> 00:05:56,660
They don't pass from, you know, 
extreme concentrators of wealth 

94
00:05:56,660 --> 00:05:59,180
and swing concentrations of 
poverty don't pass from 

95
00:05:59,180 --> 00:06:02,140
generation to generation. 
If you make a mistake, you 

96
00:06:02,140 --> 00:06:05,260
mishandle your finances. 
You have to sell your field at 

97
00:06:05,260 --> 00:06:08,460
the end of 50 years, either for 
you, at the end of most 50 

98
00:06:08,460 --> 00:06:10,380
years, for you, for your 
children. 

99
00:06:10,660 --> 00:06:14,230
Those fields are coming back. 
And something like you mentioned

100
00:06:14,230 --> 00:06:16,790
master and stock up a really 
step back first like at Chikhan 

101
00:06:16,790 --> 00:06:20,270
Peo, which is the are the 
tourists really original forms 

102
00:06:20,270 --> 00:06:22,390
of stock of the tourists 
certainly also mentioned stock 

103
00:06:22,390 --> 00:06:25,070
and purchase array, but 
originally it's the gleanings in

104
00:06:25,070 --> 00:06:26,990
the field, it's the things that 
you forget in the field. 

105
00:06:27,270 --> 00:06:30,070
So there's a really stopgap 
measures for people who have 

106
00:06:30,070 --> 00:06:31,350
become impoverished in the 
intro. 

107
00:06:31,350 --> 00:06:34,990
But in the long term, in the 
long term, the Torah designed 

108
00:06:34,990 --> 00:06:38,150
that economic system in an 
agricultural world that was 

109
00:06:38,150 --> 00:06:40,460
there. 
For preventing extreme 

110
00:06:40,460 --> 00:06:42,820
concentrations of wealth and 
maybe even maybe more 

111
00:06:42,820 --> 00:06:45,340
importantly or maybe equally 
importantly, extreme 

112
00:06:45,660 --> 00:06:50,020
concentrations of poverty. 
Now the terrorist system you 

113
00:06:50,020 --> 00:06:51,980
speak about America's a 
capitalist system. 

114
00:06:52,300 --> 00:06:54,180
America certainly is a 
capitalist system. 

115
00:06:55,140 --> 00:06:56,380
America's not. 
America's not. 

116
00:06:56,380 --> 00:06:58,820
Pure capitalism is. 
There's no no country that's 

117
00:06:58,820 --> 00:07:00,700
capitalist that is pure 
capitalism. 

118
00:07:00,860 --> 00:07:04,100
Each, every country basically in
the western world is some blend 

119
00:07:04,180 --> 00:07:05,890
of. 
If you want to use the term 

120
00:07:05,890 --> 00:07:08,530
socialism, it may not be 
Jordan's technical definition, 

121
00:07:08,810 --> 00:07:12,330
but some, you know, mixture 
between socialism and 

122
00:07:12,330 --> 00:07:14,770
capitalism. 
And I think it's fair to say 

123
00:07:14,770 --> 00:07:17,210
that that is certainly where the
Torah is. 

124
00:07:17,490 --> 00:07:19,890
The Torah may be a little more, 
I don't want to say, a little 

125
00:07:19,890 --> 00:07:21,850
more socialist. 
It's a bit more communitarian. 

126
00:07:22,410 --> 00:07:26,690
It's a bit more communitarian 
both in the legal sense, in the 

127
00:07:26,690 --> 00:07:28,690
philosophical sense, in the 
legal sense. 

128
00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,000
So there are, you know, the way 
what I originally described 

129
00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,280
Smith and Yovel, which again was
in a it was an Agricultural 

130
00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,680
Society, not in a capital based 
society, which is a little bit 

131
00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:39,400
tricky. 
How do you, how should we 

132
00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:43,240
translate the agriculture, the 
the, the philosophy that the 

133
00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:48,600
Torah is presenting in when we 
first entered ericseral and that

134
00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,320
entire world? 
How you translate that into 

135
00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,840
society based upon capital is 
admittedly not a simple matter. 

136
00:07:56,150 --> 00:07:59,150
But certainly the Torah's 
intent, what Torah envisions as 

137
00:07:59,150 --> 00:08:02,710
an economically just society, I 
think is certainly clearly 

138
00:08:02,710 --> 00:08:06,590
there, but it is certainly 
capitalist also in in many ways.

139
00:08:07,350 --> 00:08:09,870
Now the the other piece when I 
talk about communitarian is not 

140
00:08:09,870 --> 00:08:11,710
just the laws but 
philosophically speaking. 

141
00:08:12,630 --> 00:08:16,230
I think that the the premise 
which is laid out in in very 

142
00:08:16,230 --> 00:08:19,990
powerful and clear fashion by 
the tour in his introduction to 

143
00:08:20,030 --> 00:08:23,990
Hosadaka, he writes that when 
you give Stacca. 

144
00:08:24,850 --> 00:08:26,570
And I'll just put in my little 
pitch here. 

145
00:08:26,570 --> 00:08:28,930
The proper sheer of stucco, if 
you could afford it. 

146
00:08:28,930 --> 00:08:33,650
Is, is, is is a Homesh is 1/5, 
not, not a 10th, a tenth. 

147
00:08:33,650 --> 00:08:35,929
Isn't me debane on this 
According to the Shahrar, the 

148
00:08:35,929 --> 00:08:38,490
Shah Hanar, I think it's Simon 
Rishman tests and your Adea 

149
00:08:38,770 --> 00:08:40,610
rules that you're supposed to 
give a Homesh. 

150
00:08:40,610 --> 00:08:42,570
If you can't afford to give it, 
that's a different question. 

151
00:08:43,970 --> 00:08:49,850
But the the tour says that when 
a person gives stucco, they 

152
00:08:49,850 --> 00:08:51,530
shouldn't feel bad. 
They shouldn't look at as if 

153
00:08:51,530 --> 00:08:54,490
like how can I do this? 
Eh, eh, Sarmi Mamone. 

154
00:08:54,490 --> 00:08:57,410
And my, my, my bottom line in my
bank account goes down and I 

155
00:08:57,410 --> 00:08:59,690
feel bad about that. 
I'm I'm giving away my money. 

156
00:08:59,930 --> 00:09:01,730
So the tour says you're not 
supposed to look at it that way.

157
00:09:01,730 --> 00:09:03,650
You're supposed to understand 
that that what you have, 

158
00:09:03,690 --> 00:09:07,530
everything that you have 100% of
your money is basically a 

159
00:09:07,530 --> 00:09:09,610
picadone. 
It's a trust that was given to 

160
00:09:09,610 --> 00:09:12,090
you by God. 
You are just a trustee and you 

161
00:09:12,090 --> 00:09:14,810
could imagine the tour doesn't 
spell this out but if you you 

162
00:09:14,810 --> 00:09:17,330
know, if you knew had knew 
somebody who was worth, you 

163
00:09:17,330 --> 00:09:19,700
know, $100 million. 
And they die. 

164
00:09:19,740 --> 00:09:22,420
And you're a trustee on the 
state and you're not an heir. 

165
00:09:22,660 --> 00:09:26,300
And and the and the wealthy 
person who died designated that 

166
00:09:26,300 --> 00:09:28,980
money should be given this way 
to this person, that person to 

167
00:09:28,980 --> 00:09:30,780
this cause. 
It's not hard for you to give 

168
00:09:30,780 --> 00:09:32,620
that money away because it's not
your money. 

169
00:09:32,620 --> 00:09:35,580
So it doesn't bother you. 
So you're supposed to look at 

170
00:09:35,620 --> 00:09:37,700
your money. 
You're supposed to look at your 

171
00:09:37,700 --> 00:09:40,580
money that you have, and of 
course it's your money. 

172
00:09:40,660 --> 00:09:42,620
Halaha recognizes that there is 
theft. 

173
00:09:42,900 --> 00:09:45,300
You have, you have the rights to
your possessions in one sense. 

174
00:09:45,580 --> 00:09:47,820
But your perspective on that is 
supposed to be that it's not 

175
00:09:47,820 --> 00:09:51,340
really my money. 
I I think that in one particular

176
00:09:51,340 --> 00:09:55,100
area where this really shows up,
and I think this is maybe one of

177
00:09:55,100 --> 00:09:57,780
the most burning issues, is the 
way we fund our Ushiba's with 

178
00:09:57,780 --> 00:10:00,900
parents paying tuition and 
certainly in the Modern Orthodox

179
00:10:00,900 --> 00:10:03,780
community as opposed to perhaps 
the Ushiba community where the 

180
00:10:03,780 --> 00:10:05,740
bulk of the money is paid by the
parents. 

181
00:10:05,740 --> 00:10:08,060
It's not, it's not that wealth. 
Wealthy people give a lot of 

182
00:10:08,060 --> 00:10:10,220
money for buildings. 
They give some money to the 

183
00:10:10,220 --> 00:10:12,820
scholarship funds that certainly
people are very generous, but 

184
00:10:12,820 --> 00:10:17,060
the bulk of the of the tuition 
that the bulk of the dollars. 

185
00:10:17,500 --> 00:10:20,060
As far as I know in in most of 
modern Orthodox achievement is 

186
00:10:20,060 --> 00:10:21,460
coming from parents paying 
tuition. 

187
00:10:22,140 --> 00:10:26,740
Now Halaka does not see tuition 
as an individual's obligation. 

188
00:10:26,820 --> 00:10:29,660
A parent the father has an 
obligation to educate his child.

189
00:10:29,700 --> 00:10:32,460
Certainly is is such a myth such
an obligation. 

190
00:10:32,780 --> 00:10:36,300
But the Gaman Basra says that 
Yoshua been Gand law took that 

191
00:10:36,660 --> 00:10:39,380
individual obligation and 
basically saw that it wasn't 

192
00:10:39,380 --> 00:10:42,110
make her filled and he created. 
Communal obligation. 

193
00:10:42,110 --> 00:10:44,510
So fundamentally when you learn 
the Gammara, Bob Abbasser in the

194
00:10:44,510 --> 00:10:47,030
second pair of what you see, and
it's quoted in the Rabam and 

195
00:10:47,030 --> 00:10:50,030
it's quoted in the Shulkara. 
Fundamentally speaking, 

196
00:10:50,030 --> 00:10:54,390
education is a communal 
responsibility and that is not 

197
00:10:54,390 --> 00:10:57,190
the way. 
Orthodox Modern Orthodox, you 

198
00:10:57,190 --> 00:11:00,790
certainly think in in this 
country, we think our model is 

199
00:11:00,790 --> 00:11:04,270
like private schools, like 
Horace Mann, you know, in in 

200
00:11:04,270 --> 00:11:07,550
Manhattan, or White Englewood 
School in Englewood, which are 

201
00:11:07,550 --> 00:11:10,390
private schools, which are 
always which are paid for by 

202
00:11:10,390 --> 00:11:12,710
parents paying tuition. 
But in the United States of 

203
00:11:12,710 --> 00:11:15,190
America, that's not how most 
children are educated. 

204
00:11:15,190 --> 00:11:17,790
They're educated in public 
schools, which are paid for by 

205
00:11:17,790 --> 00:11:20,790
the seaboard, not by the parents
as they're sending their kids 

206
00:11:20,790 --> 00:11:22,070
there. 
And it happens to be that that 

207
00:11:22,070 --> 00:11:27,070
model is much more in tune. 
With the with halakhas model, 

208
00:11:27,070 --> 00:11:31,190
which is a communal obligation, 
we expect people to send their 

209
00:11:31,190 --> 00:11:34,630
children to yeshiva as they have
to in a sense, to be part of the

210
00:11:34,630 --> 00:11:38,750
community to educate their kids 
so that they perhaps don't 

211
00:11:38,750 --> 00:11:40,750
completely absorb the 
surrounding culture. 

212
00:11:41,190 --> 00:11:43,630
And yet in the United States of 
America, for the most part, the 

213
00:11:43,630 --> 00:11:49,590
only people who send their their
children to expensive private 

214
00:11:49,590 --> 00:11:52,190
schools are very wealthy people 
if you're not wealthy. 

215
00:11:52,700 --> 00:11:57,420
You move to a you move to a a, a
town which has good public 

216
00:11:57,420 --> 00:11:58,500
schools. 
You bought. 

217
00:11:58,500 --> 00:12:01,100
If you can't afford to, you know
houses, because those tend to be

218
00:12:01,100 --> 00:12:03,380
more expensive. 
You buy a small house and you 

219
00:12:03,380 --> 00:12:05,260
send the kids to your kids to 
the public schools and they get 

220
00:12:05,260 --> 00:12:08,420
a good education. 
So we have unrealistic our our 

221
00:12:08,420 --> 00:12:11,420
way of thinking about it is, I 
don't want to call it 

222
00:12:11,420 --> 00:12:14,540
capitalist, but it's modeled 
upon an it's modeled modeled 

223
00:12:14,540 --> 00:12:17,230
upon the wrong American. 
System of education, it's not 

224
00:12:17,830 --> 00:12:21,190
upon American private education,
not American public education. 

225
00:12:21,350 --> 00:12:23,790
So I I assume you probably have 
more questions to talk about 

226
00:12:23,790 --> 00:12:26,710
that, but I think just in 
talking about what is the Taurus

227
00:12:26,710 --> 00:12:29,870
perspective. 
So the Torah is much much more 

228
00:12:29,870 --> 00:12:34,990
communitarian than certainly the
conservative economic view in in

229
00:12:34,990 --> 00:12:38,270
the United States. 
Now going to the more specific 

230
00:12:38,270 --> 00:12:42,310
question of I give my to doctor,
let's say this person gives 

231
00:12:42,310 --> 00:12:44,310
their homage, they give their 
20% and. 

232
00:12:44,770 --> 00:12:47,210
Technically speaking, under 
ordinary circumstances you're 

233
00:12:47,210 --> 00:12:48,930
not allowed to get more than 
20%. 

234
00:12:49,210 --> 00:12:52,290
Although if you were, if you 
were making $100 million a year,

235
00:12:52,290 --> 00:12:55,010
you were an executive, some 
firm, and you came to me, I 

236
00:12:55,010 --> 00:12:58,090
would probably be willing to 
give you a coula and allow you 

237
00:12:58,090 --> 00:13:01,250
to get more than 20%. 
And if you were, if when you 

238
00:13:01,250 --> 00:13:04,450
were called on your Yom Hudin 
before Ribona Shalom and you 

239
00:13:04,450 --> 00:13:07,530
were called to, you know, to 
account for that, I will accept 

240
00:13:07,530 --> 00:13:10,130
the punishment laws okay. 
But generally speaking, let's 

241
00:13:10,130 --> 00:13:13,330
assume that you get 20%, you 
give 20%. 

242
00:13:13,740 --> 00:13:16,940
So now the question you ask is, 
well, can I spend on anything 

243
00:13:16,940 --> 00:13:19,260
else that I want? 
And from a technical 

244
00:13:19,260 --> 00:13:27,740
perspective, the answer is yes. 
And my wife always reminds me in

245
00:13:27,740 --> 00:13:29,300
talking about this issue, it 
tells it. 

246
00:13:29,300 --> 00:13:32,460
There's a story of Hasidic rebel
who one of the video comes to 

247
00:13:32,460 --> 00:13:35,820
him and says Rebbie, you know, I
eat every night for dinner. 

248
00:13:35,820 --> 00:13:38,420
I just have stale bread and and 
and water. 

249
00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:40,640
And that's what I eat. 
He wants to show that he's like 

250
00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,720
the spies person and the rabbit 
says no, no, you need to eat, 

251
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,240
you know filet mignon and you 
need to drink fancy wines. 

252
00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,360
That's what you need to do. 
So when that when the veer 

253
00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:51,280
leaves so somebody that one of 
the people turns to the rabbit 

254
00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,200
says why do you tell him that? 
He said because if he is himself

255
00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:58,160
consuming stale bread and water 
for dinner what do you think 

256
00:13:58,160 --> 00:13:59,480
he's going to think the poor 
people should. 

257
00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,480
So there is a you know there is 
a piece that. 

258
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,880
It's fair that if you want 
people to be charitable, they 

259
00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:07,480
have to be a little charitable 
with herself. 

260
00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:09,960
But I I would say that a little 
charitable with themself. 

261
00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,960
I think that when you talk about
a certain kind of conspicuous 

262
00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:15,480
consumption, that's out of 
control. 

263
00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:17,920
So it doesn't matter whether 
you've given Stuck or not. 

264
00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,560
There's one of the most 
fundamental to our values that's

265
00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:23,760
missing from this discussion is 
the concept of kadusha and 

266
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,960
kadusha, I think in our 
community, even even in the 

267
00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,280
Orthodox community. 
Perhaps outside the area of 

268
00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:34,120
sexuality is nonexistent and 
it's a tremendous, tremendous 

269
00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:39,400
challenge because we live in a 
culture, we are surrounded. 

270
00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,360
We by a culture. 
We are certainly the Modern 

271
00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,840
Orthodox community and probably 
even beyond. 

272
00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:49,840
Even other parts of Orthodoxy 
are very much enmeshed in a 

273
00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:52,960
Western culture that is 
described by, you know, 

274
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,160
currently moral psychologists, 
the term weird, Western 

275
00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,240
educated, intellectual, rich and
democratic. 

276
00:14:58,870 --> 00:15:02,750
And that particular demographic,
which is a tiny slice of America

277
00:15:02,750 --> 00:15:07,070
and an eager, tinier slice of 
the world doesn't amongst its 

278
00:15:07,070 --> 00:15:08,830
values. 
You simply don't have the 

279
00:15:08,830 --> 00:15:12,190
concept of Cadusha. 
In fact, I think if you were to 

280
00:15:12,190 --> 00:15:14,710
go around the fact that I'm 
saying this from experience, not

281
00:15:14,710 --> 00:15:18,430
simply by guessing, you would go
around to large numbers of 

282
00:15:18,430 --> 00:15:22,030
people in our community, young 
and old, and ask them what is 

283
00:15:22,030 --> 00:15:25,590
Cadusha and they will struggle 
for a definition and probably 

284
00:15:25,590 --> 00:15:28,430
not get to the correct 
definition and. 

285
00:15:29,030 --> 00:15:32,150
And that's because the culture 
that we are surrounded by in the

286
00:15:32,150 --> 00:15:34,790
United States, secular culture, 
is fundamentally AS2 

287
00:15:34,790 --> 00:15:37,190
characteristics. 
It's materialistic and it's 

288
00:15:37,190 --> 00:15:39,670
hedonistic. 
It's seeking goods and seeking 

289
00:15:39,670 --> 00:15:42,990
pleasure. 
And so in that culture, if you 

290
00:15:42,990 --> 00:15:45,310
don't harm anybody else, if 
you're not hurting anybody else,

291
00:15:45,350 --> 00:15:48,670
everything is okay. 
But Kadusha is so central to 

292
00:15:49,270 --> 00:15:51,790
almost every aspect of Torah, 
and we don't talk about it, we 

293
00:15:51,790 --> 00:15:54,150
don't think about it. 
What Kadusha means in a 

294
00:15:54,150 --> 00:15:56,730
nutshell. 
If if I think of a three 

295
00:15:56,730 --> 00:15:59,530
sentence definition, is that 
human beings we believe are 

296
00:15:59,530 --> 00:16:02,250
comprised of two parts. 
Our angelic side like the 

297
00:16:02,250 --> 00:16:04,370
Malakhaya Sharis and our animal 
saw. 

298
00:16:04,890 --> 00:16:08,410
And Kadusha means to be a little
bit more angelic and a little 

299
00:16:08,410 --> 00:16:11,130
bit less animal like. 
It means to be precious as the 

300
00:16:11,130 --> 00:16:13,970
Ramban describes. 
It means to be a little bit to 

301
00:16:13,970 --> 00:16:17,610
lessen our emphasis on the 
physical, on the physical world.

302
00:16:18,170 --> 00:16:22,250
So even even if technically 
speaking I, I the media is the 

303
00:16:22,410 --> 00:16:24,770
old glat kosher, everything is 
glat kosher. 

304
00:16:25,290 --> 00:16:27,650
So the as the Ramban says, you 
can be Zola, the sofa, you can 

305
00:16:27,650 --> 00:16:31,010
be a guate and you can drink a 
drunkard and the the wine's got 

306
00:16:31,010 --> 00:16:33,970
a hashka on it's muvosal, it's 
got 7 hashkahas on it. 

307
00:16:34,210 --> 00:16:37,490
You have the meat which is is 
glot kosher, you know with with 

308
00:16:37,490 --> 00:16:41,010
the badats and and the OU and 
everybody on it and you're a 

309
00:16:41,010 --> 00:16:43,810
novel brishore satora. 
It misses the entire point of 

310
00:16:43,810 --> 00:16:46,250
Judaism. 
So it's not that you should be 

311
00:16:46,250 --> 00:16:49,410
in a Senate and completely 
refrained for any enjoyment in 

312
00:16:49,410 --> 00:16:51,930
the world you know it might be 
that A1 sided nauseir is 

313
00:16:51,930 --> 00:16:54,100
considered a hotel. 
On the other side and us, you're

314
00:16:54,100 --> 00:16:56,380
supposed to be a codosh. 
So what, We are somewhat 

315
00:16:56,380 --> 00:17:00,180
restrained in our behavior when 
we don't engage in excessive 

316
00:17:00,180 --> 00:17:02,260
consumption. 
That is fundamentally an act of 

317
00:17:02,260 --> 00:17:04,180
conducial. 
So even if it's true, 

318
00:17:04,619 --> 00:17:07,420
holacically speaking, you've 
given you can afford to give 

319
00:17:07,460 --> 00:17:10,780
Homesh 1/5, you've given Homesh 
and now you say, well I can 

320
00:17:10,780 --> 00:17:14,940
consume whatever I want. 
So yes, if you were to just look

321
00:17:14,940 --> 00:17:17,720
at the lines in the Chauhanara. 
But if you don't read between 

322
00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:20,720
the lines of the Chakonara, if 
you don't see as a metaphor I've

323
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,440
used in other context. 
If you don't see the forest for 

324
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:25,839
the trees, you're kind of 
missing, kind of missing the 

325
00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:28,840
whole point of thorough duties. 
I would even, I would even add 

326
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:33,160
sneut to to that because sneut 
is is actually a concept that 

327
00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,400
people are very, you know, 
strict about when it comes to 

328
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:41,120
like covering their elbows. 
But women specifically, women 

329
00:17:41,120 --> 00:17:45,400
specifically, it's a big part of
like the conversation of being 

330
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,680
religious today. 
But it's actually missing the 

331
00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,880
overall point of like what does 
this actually mean? 

332
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,920
Like it's it's actually it 
should be defining a character 

333
00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,440
trait, not some a physical, you 
know, covering of the skin, 

334
00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:58,960
right? 
Right, So, So it's new. 

335
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:02,320
It is one of the most important 
concepts and I've said a number 

336
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,080
of times publicly it's basically
become a bludgeon to hit women 

337
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,120
with. 
But snew, it is for everybody, 

338
00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:11,520
equally, men and women. 
And and it is not just a bad 

339
00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,680
dress, it is very much about 
consumption. 

340
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,520
And if you want to understand 
the cross between these two, 

341
00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,000
there was an article recently 
someone sent me. 

342
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,160
There was an article in one of 
the Jewish newspapers about a 

343
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:25,200
new restaurant opening in 
Manhattan and it was going to 

344
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,840
have the gold like leaf coated 
hamburger. 

345
00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,240
It was 100, it's supposed to be 
$185 I think. 

346
00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,880
It hasn't opened yet and I I 
will give the owner the credit 

347
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,200
of stating in the article I'm 
sure that hamburger. 

348
00:18:36,540 --> 00:18:38,620
It probably tastes good, 
depending upon your taste. 

349
00:18:38,860 --> 00:18:42,140
It probably doesn't taste any 
better than a good hamburger. 

350
00:18:42,140 --> 00:18:44,140
Someone who knows how to make a 
hamburger on their home grill. 

351
00:18:44,500 --> 00:18:48,380
But the owner was interviewed 
and said this restaurant, I 

352
00:18:48,380 --> 00:18:50,460
think this hamburgers for those 
who want to be seen. 

353
00:18:50,780 --> 00:18:54,340
I think that said it all that 
really he hit the nail on the 

354
00:18:54,340 --> 00:18:55,780
head you got, I got to give you 
credit for that. 

355
00:18:56,500 --> 00:18:59,060
The question is why is a 
community, is there room for 

356
00:18:59,060 --> 00:19:01,220
this in our community? 
Why is anybody interested in 

357
00:19:01,220 --> 00:19:03,100
That's I think what your 
question is pointing to. 

358
00:19:03,100 --> 00:19:05,740
But it is the quintessential 
violation of Kadusha. 

359
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,600
Even if technically speaking it 
might be more. 

360
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:12,560
So, so my question really was 
about that person who's in the 

361
00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:17,600
top 10%, Are they responsible in
a way for like setting the tone 

362
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,920
for our values because obviously
there's social media today and 

363
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,520
then there you know that's new 
thing comes up there as well. 

364
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:28,920
What work, what do we expect 
from kind of that part of our 

365
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:33,320
community? 
So I think we we have a right to

366
00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:35,440
expect, we don't it's not a 
Holacic. 

367
00:19:35,910 --> 00:19:38,550
The issue we have a right to 
expect that people who are in a 

368
00:19:38,550 --> 00:19:42,870
position of influence set an 
example for others. 

369
00:19:42,990 --> 00:19:46,430
Right you can be there's 
something called I'm not I don't

370
00:19:46,430 --> 00:19:48,710
want to equate this exact in a 
fashion but there's something 

371
00:19:48,710 --> 00:19:52,070
called Jose Omar Desarabin, you 
you bear with the great 

372
00:19:52,070 --> 00:19:54,590
responsibility for the behavior 
that you induce in others. 

373
00:19:55,390 --> 00:19:59,190
So yes I think that in the same 
way that Tommy de Hahman have to

374
00:19:59,190 --> 00:20:02,590
be a role model has to have 
impeccable personal behavior 

375
00:20:02,590 --> 00:20:06,260
personal integrity so. 
I don't think people always 

376
00:20:06,260 --> 00:20:09,460
expect that from Kviram. 
But Kviram do set a tone in a 

377
00:20:09,460 --> 00:20:11,940
community, especially in the 
areas that their specialty. 

378
00:20:12,580 --> 00:20:17,500
So if the wealthy people choose 
to not engage in excessive 

379
00:20:17,500 --> 00:20:20,620
conspicuous consumption, it 
lowers the bar for everybody 

380
00:20:20,620 --> 00:20:22,140
else. 
If they choose to do so, it 

381
00:20:22,140 --> 00:20:23,500
raises the bar for everybody 
else. 

382
00:20:23,500 --> 00:20:25,820
It's a chain reaction. 
So. 

383
00:20:26,260 --> 00:20:29,580
So I think that, again, from a 
holaic perspective, does it. 

384
00:20:29,660 --> 00:20:32,260
Can I point you to the line of 
the Shulkaner violates? 

385
00:20:32,260 --> 00:20:34,780
No, but it violates everything 
between the lines. 

386
00:20:36,110 --> 00:20:40,270
I just want to say from from a 
middle class perspective, I 

387
00:20:40,270 --> 00:20:45,150
think a lot of the social media 
and the, you know, lack of mute 

388
00:20:45,230 --> 00:20:47,990
in the context that we're 
discussing, I think a lot of the

389
00:20:47,990 --> 00:20:51,310
motivation has to do with the 
idea of trying to get your kids 

390
00:20:51,310 --> 00:20:53,110
married off. 
I think that's the prime 

391
00:20:53,110 --> 00:20:57,270
motivation and a lot of lot of 
things that go on a lot. 

392
00:20:59,750 --> 00:21:01,470
Yes. 
And I might point out that that 

393
00:21:01,470 --> 00:21:04,030
is very Darwinian. 
Right. 

394
00:21:04,030 --> 00:21:06,990
It's a suggestion that I have 
resources and therefore I make 

395
00:21:06,990 --> 00:21:09,470
it desirable. 
Late and the way I've often 

396
00:21:09,470 --> 00:21:12,150
described the Kadusha and what's
called the Kadusha conundrum. 

397
00:21:12,470 --> 00:21:15,830
But we have our Darwinian side 
and we have our angelic side and

398
00:21:16,110 --> 00:21:20,110
and we're supposed to, you know,
we're supposed to emphasize the 

399
00:21:20,110 --> 00:21:24,670
angelic side, not the other one.
Absolutely. 

400
00:21:25,030 --> 00:21:29,390
OK, for the third question, one 
of the most troubling outcomes 

401
00:21:29,390 --> 00:21:31,790
of living in a materialistic 
community is that it creates. 

402
00:21:32,300 --> 00:21:34,740
Unrealistic expectations and 
people feel that they have. 

403
00:21:34,780 --> 00:21:37,700
They have to live beyond their 
means in order to keep up. 

404
00:21:37,980 --> 00:21:40,900
People do not want to leave 
their family and community in 

405
00:21:40,900 --> 00:21:42,860
order to afford a modern 
orthodox lifestyle. 

406
00:21:43,260 --> 00:21:46,580
Most people aren't making 
$300,000 a year and even those 

407
00:21:46,580 --> 00:21:50,460
that are 100, they have to spend
100,000 even in Shiva bills and 

408
00:21:50,460 --> 00:21:52,620
live month to month. 
Even with that salary, which is 

409
00:21:52,740 --> 00:21:56,460
insane, sadly yeshiva tuition is
arguably the most effective, 

410
00:21:56,780 --> 00:22:00,170
effective form of birth control.
If you make a middle class 

411
00:22:00,170 --> 00:22:03,130
American salary, you cannot 
afford to live a modern Orthodox

412
00:22:03,130 --> 00:22:05,610
lifestyle, which is mind 
boggling. 

413
00:22:05,930 --> 00:22:13,130
Can anything be done about this?
That's a big question. 

414
00:22:14,090 --> 00:22:18,690
I think that the answer is, let 
me break this issue down into a 

415
00:22:20,010 --> 00:22:21,970
sort of three components. 
I always used to say it was 

416
00:22:21,970 --> 00:22:24,690
true, but unfortunately in the 
post COVID world, I think 

417
00:22:24,690 --> 00:22:28,180
there's a third. 
There are three things that make

418
00:22:28,180 --> 00:22:31,140
it really, really hard 
economically on modern Orthodox 

419
00:22:31,140 --> 00:22:33,780
Jews. 
The one that's most recent, 

420
00:22:33,780 --> 00:22:36,780
which has always been there, but
it's gotten much more extreme in

421
00:22:36,780 --> 00:22:38,540
post. 
COVID area I can speak just in 

422
00:22:38,540 --> 00:22:40,980
my own community in Teaneck is 
the cost of housing. 

423
00:22:41,340 --> 00:22:44,460
The cost of housing was already 
expensive before COVID, but 

424
00:22:44,460 --> 00:22:48,340
something happened and things 
really skyrocketed and while in 

425
00:22:48,340 --> 00:22:50,060
the while. 
You know, there probably are 

426
00:22:50,060 --> 00:22:52,380
still some places. 
Let's say, just take an example.

427
00:22:52,380 --> 00:22:54,620
I live in Bergen County. 
There are communities which you 

428
00:22:54,620 --> 00:22:56,700
will probably still find the 
smaller house that's a little 

429
00:22:56,700 --> 00:22:59,060
bit more affordable. 
It's gotten much, much harder. 

430
00:22:59,060 --> 00:23:02,460
I think before COVID it was 
again you you had to make 

431
00:23:02,460 --> 00:23:04,900
certain sacrifices, but it was a
little bit easier to do. 

432
00:23:04,900 --> 00:23:07,740
Now that that particular problem
is a function. 

433
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,480
Is not really a function of our 
community other than that Modern

434
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,680
Orthodox Jews, by the nature of 
their professions and by the 

435
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,640
nature of their roots, tend to 
be concentrated in areas that 

436
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,760
are very high cost of living. 
But fundamentally, that housing 

437
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,520
cost piece is American problem. 
It's not just a Modern Orthodox 

438
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,200
problem like America's face. 
America has a housing shortage 

439
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,360
all over in in the city, big 
cities that people want to move 

440
00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:31,840
to. 
It's particularly acute. 

441
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,400
It's a totally separate topic of
what has led to that. 

442
00:23:34,910 --> 00:23:38,230
But it's a real problem. 
But it's not a Jewish or 

443
00:23:38,230 --> 00:23:40,950
Orthodox problem per se but it 
makes it hard. 

444
00:23:41,470 --> 00:23:45,750
The two that are our problem and
it's not one of them. 

445
00:23:45,750 --> 00:23:48,750
It's not only our problem but 
it's in our control are the 

446
00:23:48,750 --> 00:23:52,470
question of it's opting for a 
materialistic lifestyle and you 

447
00:23:52,470 --> 00:23:55,630
Shiva tuition and. 
I want to, for the moment, 

448
00:23:55,630 --> 00:23:57,790
separate the two of those. 
I think that they have sort of a

449
00:23:57,790 --> 00:24:02,150
common route attitudinally or 
the problems that we have stem 

450
00:24:02,150 --> 00:24:03,910
from a common attitude towards 
money. 

451
00:24:04,030 --> 00:24:06,350
But for the moment, separate 
them for the following reason. 

452
00:24:07,750 --> 00:24:13,750
If I choose, I can live in a 
small house, I can drive used 

453
00:24:13,750 --> 00:24:17,630
cars, I cannot go on vacation or
I could go on the most minimal 

454
00:24:17,630 --> 00:24:19,630
vacation I could go into the 
city and. 

455
00:24:19,970 --> 00:24:21,050
Get a ride to Staten Island 
Ferry. 

456
00:24:21,050 --> 00:24:24,010
Okay, that's a little extreme, 
but you know, and go go to 

457
00:24:24,010 --> 00:24:26,730
places in the city and not spend
a whole lot of money. 

458
00:24:28,370 --> 00:24:32,970
And I can live a modest 
lifestyle, but that doesn't 

459
00:24:32,970 --> 00:24:34,370
solve the yeshiva tuition 
problem. 

460
00:24:34,370 --> 00:24:37,450
The yeshiva tuition problem is 
the problem that I can't solve. 

461
00:24:37,450 --> 00:24:39,330
The only way to solve that is 
not really an acceptable 

462
00:24:39,330 --> 00:24:42,010
solution as the semi kids to a 
public school, but that kind of 

463
00:24:42,010 --> 00:24:45,430
undermines the whole point. 
So the the reason I I 

464
00:24:45,430 --> 00:24:47,710
distinguish between these two 
because one of them is an 

465
00:24:47,710 --> 00:24:49,310
individual's problem on sun 
level. 

466
00:24:49,310 --> 00:24:50,470
One of them is a comical 
problem. 

467
00:24:50,470 --> 00:24:52,950
Now I understand that even 
materialism spills over because 

468
00:24:52,950 --> 00:24:55,350
it's very hard to raise your 
kids in a community where they 

469
00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:58,070
turn, they look around everybody
else is going to Aruba on 

470
00:24:58,070 --> 00:25:02,390
vacation and and they you know 
they go to Vanson Park that is 

471
00:25:02,390 --> 00:25:06,430
very difficult but at least you 
can choose to live with those 

472
00:25:06,430 --> 00:25:08,630
difficulties and make that 
choice. 

473
00:25:08,950 --> 00:25:12,590
You can't not pay you Shiva 
tuition it's not an option and 

474
00:25:12,590 --> 00:25:14,990
so. 
I I think that both of them 

475
00:25:14,990 --> 00:25:21,310
require extensive attention and 
and and particularly part of the

476
00:25:21,310 --> 00:25:23,190
rabbit and talking about these 
issues. 

477
00:25:23,870 --> 00:25:26,270
But I want to at least focus on 
the Shiva tuition question 

478
00:25:26,270 --> 00:25:28,190
because that's that I called the
pig in the steak. 

479
00:25:28,190 --> 00:25:29,910
That's what's breaking people's 
backs. 

480
00:25:31,270 --> 00:25:34,710
And let me first begin by 
stating that I want to dismiss 

481
00:25:34,710 --> 00:25:36,830
the people have said that that 
the problem with the Shiva 

482
00:25:36,830 --> 00:25:39,830
tuition is a values crisis, not 
an economic crisis because 

483
00:25:39,830 --> 00:25:41,350
people want to spend money on 
other things. 

484
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,560
I'll grant you that there may be
some people who fetch about 

485
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,520
yeshiva tuition. 
Some people try to cheat on the 

486
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,200
margins and they like to live 
high but not pay issue with 

487
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,240
tuition. 
I think that's a very, very tiny

488
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,280
slice. 
I think that you have to think 

489
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,240
about a large number of people 
in the community for whom are 

490
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,640
not living high, and that's not 
what they aspire to. 

491
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,040
They aspire just to survive it. 
If there's one thing they want 

492
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,480
to be able to spend money on 
would be putting it away for 

493
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,320
retirement. 
Put it away for retirement, 

494
00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:07,440
which is not, I don't think 
should be considered a luxury. 

495
00:26:08,340 --> 00:26:10,900
You know we have someone has 
pointed out we have a retirement

496
00:26:10,900 --> 00:26:13,460
price is coming Also all the 
people who couldn't save because

497
00:26:13,460 --> 00:26:16,300
of having pay Shiva tuition and 
they weren't going to Aruba and 

498
00:26:16,300 --> 00:26:18,180
they weren't going to Miami 
Beach for vacation. 

499
00:26:19,380 --> 00:26:21,540
But if you just do the 
arithmetic, you know you said 

500
00:26:21,740 --> 00:26:24,220
you said $100,000. 
I disagree with you at least 

501
00:26:24,220 --> 00:26:27,300
depends where you are but in 
Bergen County if you have 4 kids

502
00:26:27,300 --> 00:26:29,900
in yeshiva, OK, maybe you were 
maybe that number assumes 3 

503
00:26:29,900 --> 00:26:31,380
kids. 
If you have 4 kids in yeshiva, 

504
00:26:31,660 --> 00:26:33,740
you're talking about a tuition 
bill easily. 

505
00:26:34,410 --> 00:26:37,170
It could be very much in the for
most people, $100,000, which 

506
00:26:37,170 --> 00:26:42,370
means to pay that you have to 
earn 150 pretax just to pay that

507
00:26:42,370 --> 00:26:45,530
yeshiva Commission. 
That doesn't count a single 

508
00:26:45,810 --> 00:26:48,170
penny. 
A single penny for anything 

509
00:26:48,170 --> 00:26:51,490
else, For food, for shelter, for
transportation, for insurance, 

510
00:26:51,490 --> 00:26:57,050
for retirement, to get 
vacations, anything, $150,000, 

511
00:26:57,730 --> 00:27:00,850
we could talk, we could spend 
hours talking about what the 

512
00:27:00,850 --> 00:27:02,610
implications are. 
So we have to kind of limit 

513
00:27:02,610 --> 00:27:05,180
ourselves. 
But you ask can anything be done

514
00:27:05,180 --> 00:27:08,260
about this? 
And the answer is yes, the 

515
00:27:08,340 --> 00:27:11,540
answer it. 
It's a huge, huge lift, but it 

516
00:27:11,540 --> 00:27:13,700
can be done. 
It's not a financial, it's not 

517
00:27:13,700 --> 00:27:17,220
financially difficult, it is 
educationally difficult. 

518
00:27:17,220 --> 00:27:19,380
It's about teaching a community 
to think differently. 

519
00:27:19,820 --> 00:27:22,980
Take a very simple proposal. 
And I don't, I haven't been able

520
00:27:22,980 --> 00:27:25,700
yet to crunch the numbers, but I
am actually working on this with

521
00:27:25,700 --> 00:27:29,060
other people. 
But if every family and again 

522
00:27:29,140 --> 00:27:31,980
there, there you can ask 100 
questions and how it would work.

523
00:27:32,730 --> 00:27:34,770
There are smart people can solve
all those questions. 

524
00:27:34,970 --> 00:27:38,850
I have one issue and I get 
people to fund the yeshivas 

525
00:27:38,850 --> 00:27:40,850
commonly. 
And if every family in Bergen 

526
00:27:40,850 --> 00:27:44,770
County gave, let's pick a 
$20,000 to a central yeshiva 

527
00:27:44,770 --> 00:27:48,850
fund, I suspect that maybe the 
number needs to be 1000 or 2000 

528
00:27:48,850 --> 00:27:50,370
more. 
Maybe it's a tiny bit less. 

529
00:27:50,810 --> 00:27:53,850
That could pay, certainly for 
the entire annual budget of all 

530
00:27:53,850 --> 00:27:57,130
the schools. 
Now there are two advantages. 

531
00:27:57,250 --> 00:27:59,250
If everything again, there are 
some families who can't, 

532
00:27:59,250 --> 00:28:02,570
retirees might not be able to. 
But if you go to anybody who's 

533
00:28:02,570 --> 00:28:05,370
got young kids or is anywhere in
the tuition cycle and you tell 

534
00:28:05,370 --> 00:28:08,250
them could you pay $20,000 a 
year, the answer is sure, I can.

535
00:28:08,970 --> 00:28:11,810
Now what you have to have in 
this, for various reasons, is 

536
00:28:11,810 --> 00:28:14,690
you have a small tuition. 
It might be a couple $1000 that 

537
00:28:14,690 --> 00:28:16,970
might there might be some more 
complicated system. 

538
00:28:16,970 --> 00:28:20,050
But in principle, in principle, 
let's say let's say we only have

539
00:28:20,050 --> 00:28:21,650
one school. 
But you know, it's more 

540
00:28:21,650 --> 00:28:23,090
complicated because we have many
schools. 

541
00:28:23,410 --> 00:28:27,530
You pay a couple $1000 a child 
and then every year the one, 

542
00:28:27,530 --> 00:28:31,160
they're like regular tuition. 
And then every year, as you're 

543
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,240
living in the community from 
before your children are in 

544
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,200
school till after your children 
have graduated and they have 

545
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,800
their children, you pay $20,000 
a year, which would be tax 

546
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,560
deductible. 
We can't mandate it. 

547
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,400
That's part of the challenge to 
achieve a fund, and that would 

548
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,080
fund the yeshivas if we were to 
succeed in doing that, which is 

549
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:53,120
going to require educating 
people, showing people why it's 

550
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,840
a much better system, not only 
because the Torah, the Torah 

551
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,600
values issue, but because what 
it would do. 

552
00:28:58,990 --> 00:29:02,390
Potentially for the quality of 
spiritual and even physical life

553
00:29:02,870 --> 00:29:06,030
for people in our community, 
that's a game changer. 

554
00:29:06,470 --> 00:29:08,150
The arithmetic is not hard to 
work. 

555
00:29:08,150 --> 00:29:11,590
It might be that you that your 
amount is not $20,000. 

556
00:29:11,590 --> 00:29:14,630
I I like the idea that it's it 
may not be the same amount but 

557
00:29:14,630 --> 00:29:17,030
it's tied to your real estate 
taxes in some way. 

558
00:29:17,070 --> 00:29:20,510
It's it's it's scaled to your 
real estate taxes which are both

559
00:29:20,510 --> 00:29:22,910
public information. 
Number one, what you pay real 

560
00:29:22,910 --> 00:29:26,510
estate taxes and #2 it's a 
indicator of what you think 

561
00:29:26,510 --> 00:29:32,080
you're able to spend on. 
That money goes, you know, 50% 

562
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,600
further than regular tuition 
dollars because it's tax 

563
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,760
deductible and and and you, as 
you realize it's really funding 

564
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:40,640
like public schools, right? 
It's over the course of a 

565
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,240
lifetime, not in the 
concentrated period. 

566
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,320
That changes the community in so
many ways. 

567
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,120
It means, I'll start with the 
following It means to be a 

568
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:53,880
Modern Orthodox Jew, you only 
need to earn $20,000 more. 

569
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,160
And if you're paying tuition and
add another ten, $30,000 more, 

570
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,530
really. 
Then people will send their kids

571
00:29:59,530 --> 00:30:01,690
to public schools. 
Think about what that means 

572
00:30:01,690 --> 00:30:04,490
right now. 
In your peak years of tuition, 

573
00:30:04,970 --> 00:30:07,410
you've got to be making $150,000
more. 

574
00:30:07,690 --> 00:30:09,290
What kind of professions? 
Pay that? 

575
00:30:09,770 --> 00:30:12,090
But now say you know what it 
costs to be an old Manor of 

576
00:30:12,090 --> 00:30:14,930
docs, two, $30,000 more than 
your neighbors. 

577
00:30:15,650 --> 00:30:19,090
That changes the entire game. 
It changes the professions our 

578
00:30:19,090 --> 00:30:22,010
children can go into. 
It changes the stresses. 

579
00:30:22,300 --> 00:30:24,060
And not at the time when their 
kids are young. 

580
00:30:24,220 --> 00:30:26,380
When you have all sorts of those
kinds of stresses in life, 

581
00:30:26,380 --> 00:30:28,900
you're not on and you're not at 
your highest earning, Typically 

582
00:30:29,420 --> 00:30:31,820
you're not crushed under this 
burden of tuition. 

583
00:30:32,620 --> 00:30:35,940
My only concern, my only concern
though, is that like you see it 

584
00:30:35,940 --> 00:30:39,220
in Florida, where there's now 
government subsidies going 

585
00:30:39,220 --> 00:30:42,060
towards yeshiva tuition or some 
of it is tax money. 

586
00:30:42,300 --> 00:30:45,020
Is that the more money? 
You know, like the more 

587
00:30:45,020 --> 00:30:46,940
opportunity there is there for 
them? 

588
00:30:47,020 --> 00:30:50,060
Oh, yeah, Sorry, No, no. 
No, I know what you whatever 

589
00:30:50,060 --> 00:30:53,230
question you can ask. 
Smart people for your dances 

590
00:30:53,230 --> 00:30:54,950
you're going to talk about 
probably is going to drive up 

591
00:30:55,110 --> 00:30:57,350
tuition right. 
There's more money. 

592
00:30:57,350 --> 00:30:59,310
I agree so that that's the 
problem with American colleges 

593
00:30:59,550 --> 00:31:01,870
government the federal 
government made so much in funds

594
00:31:01,870 --> 00:31:04,670
available so instead of saying 
oh now we don't have to charge 

595
00:31:04,670 --> 00:31:07,430
tuition now you know 
administrators university say oh

596
00:31:07,430 --> 00:31:10,510
we have another revenue stream 
if the government is helping 

597
00:31:10,510 --> 00:31:12,670
fund people well we can charge 
even more tuition. 

598
00:31:12,950 --> 00:31:15,990
So there have to be there are 
there are 100 questions this 

599
00:31:15,990 --> 00:31:18,670
that's an easy one to answer. 
The answer is that when you. 

600
00:31:19,220 --> 00:31:22,900
When you taking these communal 
funds, you get probably, you 

601
00:31:22,900 --> 00:31:24,340
know the communal fund says 
Okay. 

602
00:31:24,340 --> 00:31:26,980
This is the amount of tuition 
per kid that we're sending to 

603
00:31:27,020 --> 00:31:30,140
school wherever the parents 
enroll the child And you as a 

604
00:31:30,140 --> 00:31:33,060
school, if you want to get that 
you can't charge more the next 

605
00:31:33,060 --> 00:31:35,700
tuition, you know a very smart 
person I know and finance said 

606
00:31:36,140 --> 00:31:38,060
given the differences in New 
York this might be a New York 

607
00:31:38,060 --> 00:31:41,180
thing where you have such a 
broad range of I mean you have 

608
00:31:41,460 --> 00:31:43,940
some very expensive schools. 
You might have something of a 

609
00:31:43,940 --> 00:31:46,900
sliding scale tuition but at the
bottom would be this most of the

610
00:31:46,900 --> 00:31:48,980
schools. 
That would you you pay 2 or 

611
00:31:48,980 --> 00:31:53,340
$3000 a kid for tuition and and 
if the school wants to charge 

612
00:31:53,340 --> 00:31:55,260
$20,000 they're going to be 
forfeiting money. 

613
00:31:55,420 --> 00:31:57,260
They're like vouchers. 
It's like creating our own 

614
00:31:57,260 --> 00:31:58,740
vouchers. 
But there's no question then 

615
00:31:58,980 --> 00:32:01,820
that has to be that you know 
there are 100 rules to work out 

616
00:32:01,900 --> 00:32:04,460
that I, I I figured out 100 
questions. 

617
00:32:04,460 --> 00:32:08,140
I I hear, I've rarely heard from
people a question that I haven't

618
00:32:08,140 --> 00:32:10,700
really thought of that's going 
to be difficult to work on but 

619
00:32:10,700 --> 00:32:13,140
my feeling is that we don't have
another choice. 

620
00:32:13,300 --> 00:32:16,810
And if if we if. 
If those who are in the position

621
00:32:16,810 --> 00:32:20,330
to influence others, both 
Rabonen and Balabatan, who are, 

622
00:32:20,330 --> 00:32:22,850
I'll call the connectors, using 
Malcolm Gladwell's term with the

623
00:32:22,850 --> 00:32:26,090
term he borrowed, if we can 
change the way people think 

624
00:32:26,210 --> 00:32:29,810
about paying for it, and 
particularly those of us, I'm in

625
00:32:29,810 --> 00:32:32,850
that position, we're not paying.
You see the tuition anymore, 

626
00:32:33,810 --> 00:32:36,090
understand, Even though I paid 
it, I will, I will pay. 

627
00:32:36,090 --> 00:32:38,930
I will be happy to create a 
future for my children, for my 

628
00:32:38,930 --> 00:32:41,010
grandchildren, for other 
people's children, other 

629
00:32:41,010 --> 00:32:44,090
people's grandchildren in the 
community by changing the way we

630
00:32:44,090 --> 00:32:45,890
do that, so. 
Your question is a good 

631
00:32:45,890 --> 00:32:48,130
question. 
I agree 100% that one I can 

632
00:32:48,130 --> 00:32:50,170
answer easily. 
There are harder questions to 

633
00:32:50,170 --> 00:32:52,730
answer. 
We will figure those out if we 

634
00:32:52,730 --> 00:32:55,290
can convince people that this is
what you have. 

635
00:32:55,330 --> 00:32:57,250
This is the way to fund our 
issues, yeah. 

636
00:32:58,010 --> 00:33:01,130
I think right the persuade the 
hardest part. 

637
00:33:01,130 --> 00:33:02,810
For sure. 
The persuasion is the hardest 

638
00:33:02,810 --> 00:33:05,090
part. 
I understand. 

639
00:33:05,450 --> 00:33:09,410
Look, I found in conversation I 
did an event in Bergen County. 

640
00:33:09,690 --> 00:33:12,650
I had a very close friend who 
you know. 

641
00:33:12,910 --> 00:33:15,430
Who they They're incredible. 
They're not high earners. 

642
00:33:15,470 --> 00:33:17,030
They struggle to pay you sheet 
of tuition. 

643
00:33:17,110 --> 00:33:21,430
They did and now they're done. 
And they're not living high. 

644
00:33:21,430 --> 00:33:24,110
But they like now you're turning
and saying that will you give we

645
00:33:24,110 --> 00:33:27,630
can we give $20,000 a year? 
And I said two things in that 

646
00:33:27,630 --> 00:33:29,230
presentation. 
I wasn't aiming at him that he 

647
00:33:29,230 --> 00:33:32,470
said really made him rethink his
his opposition. 

648
00:33:32,750 --> 00:33:35,270
One I said this is the Torah way
of doing things. 

649
00:33:35,590 --> 00:33:38,310
The fact that we've done things 
wrong until now doesn't mean we 

650
00:33:38,310 --> 00:33:40,270
should continue to do things 
wrong, as the gamar says. 

651
00:33:40,610 --> 00:33:43,370
Misha achal shun berejo know 
Dave, if you ate garlic and your

652
00:33:43,370 --> 00:33:45,130
breath smells terrible, what 
should you do? 

653
00:33:45,130 --> 00:33:46,810
Eat more garlic. 
So. 

654
00:33:46,850 --> 00:33:49,570
But I understand that people 
have, some people have struggled

655
00:33:49,610 --> 00:33:51,250
and they paid and it's a hard 
ass. 

656
00:33:51,250 --> 00:33:54,250
But the second thing I said, and
again this doesn't affect them 

657
00:33:54,650 --> 00:33:57,450
but it affects others, is that 
as I mentioned to you before 

658
00:33:57,730 --> 00:34:01,770
this means that in theory you 
need to earn 2020 $5000 more 

659
00:34:01,770 --> 00:34:04,330
than anybody else in order to be
a matter of orthodox Jew. 

660
00:34:04,730 --> 00:34:06,450
If we can do that, that's 
incredible. 

661
00:34:06,490 --> 00:34:10,480
It's a it's a game changer. 
And it brings questions with it.

662
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,920
Someone asked me last night and 
said ah, but wouldn't that free 

663
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,920
up income for some people when 
now they could spend on anything

664
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,880
they wanted. 
And on one level I would say So 

665
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,360
what as long as nobody has to 
struggle to pay you sheet the 

666
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,040
tuition and #2 I agree we have 
to talk about Kaducha and 

667
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,440
materialism. 
It's not it's not an either or 

668
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:30,880
but if if the price I had to 
pay. 

669
00:34:31,310 --> 00:34:33,830
For solving the yeshiva tuition 
crisis and getting all those 

670
00:34:33,830 --> 00:34:36,989
people who want to take six 
vacations to Aruba and Costa 

671
00:34:36,989 --> 00:34:38,510
Rica and everywhere else during 
the year. 

672
00:34:38,949 --> 00:34:42,469
If the price for that, which 
they're doing anyway now is that

673
00:34:42,469 --> 00:34:45,670
nobody has to struggle. 
If that's the price for nobody's

674
00:34:45,670 --> 00:34:49,190
struggling paying yeshiva 
tuition, it's much better than 

675
00:34:49,190 --> 00:34:52,750
what you have now. 
So it's not it's the Toba Cher 

676
00:34:52,750 --> 00:34:54,830
tejos baze Vagami's out on our 
so that. 

677
00:34:55,270 --> 00:34:57,910
But I really think we need to 
focus on that yeshiva tuition 

678
00:34:57,910 --> 00:34:59,830
question because that's really 
the game changer. 

679
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,480
Absolutely Bent. 
So you want to take the next 

680
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,880
question, the 4th question? 
Sir, you mentioned on another 

681
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,880
show that the financial stress 
is a big deterrent for converts 

682
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,200
and Bali Juva. 
They have a hard time with the 

683
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,520
process gouging of holiday 
supermarket shopping. 

684
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:17,520
Can't afford to go on vacations 
to begin with. 

685
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:22,280
Do you see a breakup of 
families, the single crisis, the

686
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:26,560
singles crisis and substance 
abuse as direct consequences of 

687
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:31,330
this anxiety or is those? 
Are those unrelated phenomena? 

688
00:35:32,370 --> 00:35:35,090
Well, you're asking me to 
prognosticate here, which I will

689
00:35:35,210 --> 00:35:38,210
gladly do for you, but I 
introduced it with the caveat 

690
00:35:38,210 --> 00:35:40,570
that these are only my 
prognostications. 

691
00:35:40,570 --> 00:35:43,090
I cannot obviously speak with 
any degree of certainty. 

692
00:35:43,570 --> 00:35:49,050
I don't see those US families, 
singles crisis and substance 

693
00:35:49,050 --> 00:35:52,290
abuse. 
So I'm no expert here that if I 

694
00:35:52,290 --> 00:35:55,890
were guessing, substance abuse 
is more likely to be a people 

695
00:35:55,890 --> 00:35:57,850
who have too much money than 
people who are struggling. 

696
00:35:58,460 --> 00:36:00,500
I mean, I think it's true 
generally substance abuse you 

697
00:36:00,500 --> 00:36:03,340
will find in the very wealthy 
and then in the people who have 

698
00:36:03,340 --> 00:36:05,540
no hope. 
But I don't think so much in our

699
00:36:05,540 --> 00:36:08,980
community we have very wealthy. 
I I'm not saying people aren't 

700
00:36:08,980 --> 00:36:11,660
struggling under the way, but 
they're not the people who can't

701
00:36:11,660 --> 00:36:15,260
find any job, you know are in 
are in rural America, you know 

702
00:36:15,260 --> 00:36:17,100
who are struggling, which is 
different kind of crisis. 

703
00:36:17,100 --> 00:36:19,940
So I think if anything 
materialism is the cause. 

704
00:36:20,260 --> 00:36:23,980
Materialism or materialism is a 
sign of emptiness, typically 

705
00:36:23,980 --> 00:36:25,020
speaking in other words, 
people's. 

706
00:36:25,450 --> 00:36:26,850
Lives are empty. 
They're trying to fill it with 

707
00:36:26,850 --> 00:36:29,810
something and substance. 
Substance abuse is another way. 

708
00:36:29,810 --> 00:36:33,970
Alcohol, marijuana and worse are
ways of filling an empty voice. 

709
00:36:33,970 --> 00:36:37,690
So, So I think that's different.
But if you talk about breakup of

710
00:36:37,690 --> 00:36:40,570
families, I think there are 
many, many causes to that. 

711
00:36:40,690 --> 00:36:42,930
I I've been told by people with 
sitting in the Shiva tuition 

712
00:36:42,930 --> 00:36:45,450
committee it happens. 
I don't know if that's the 

713
00:36:45,450 --> 00:36:49,330
primary driver or not. 
I I always believe, I like to 

714
00:36:49,330 --> 00:36:52,410
say that I'm 1/2 Marxist, 
meaning I buy all the cautions 

715
00:36:52,410 --> 00:36:56,570
but I don't buy all the answers.
I think economics explains lots 

716
00:36:56,570 --> 00:36:58,730
and lots of things. 
And when you have in a world in 

717
00:36:58,730 --> 00:37:02,210
which it's ish tahaska no ish 
tahas Dana, so it's a much 

718
00:37:02,210 --> 00:37:04,450
easier world. 
It's worth noting that money is 

719
00:37:04,450 --> 00:37:07,610
one of those things that too 
little or too much are both bad.

720
00:37:07,890 --> 00:37:09,530
I'm not going to decide which is
worse. 

721
00:37:10,010 --> 00:37:13,210
Most people are really poor. 
Would say, give me the saying of

722
00:37:13,210 --> 00:37:14,810
too much wealth. 
But I have to tell you there are

723
00:37:14,810 --> 00:37:17,650
people, probably there are some 
wealthy people, who would have 

724
00:37:17,650 --> 00:37:19,530
been much better off being poor.
They would have had more 

725
00:37:19,530 --> 00:37:22,600
meaningful lives. 
So I think economics or or as I 

726
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:24,920
like to say that's, you know 
offer my audience that was 

727
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,960
getting two young tigers 
understand James Carville's 3 

728
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,640
words written and written on the
War room board and the first 

729
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,360
Clinton campaign was 3 words. 
The economy's stupid. 

730
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,280
And I think economics explains a
lot of everything that's going 

731
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:38,920
on in this country. 
Almost everything can be 

732
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:42,760
explained by economics. 
But so does that contribute to 

733
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:43,840
the family breakup? 
Yes. 

734
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:45,720
But there's there are lots of 
other pathologies too. 

735
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,680
But the singles crisis to me is 
weird way the most interesting 

736
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:51,920
one. 
Very briefly, because that's 

737
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,280
it's a different topic. 
The primary problem in the 

738
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,440
singles crisis is a demographic 
imbalance. 

739
00:37:57,720 --> 00:38:01,000
There are far more from young 
women looking for a should have 

740
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,040
than young men. 
Now, there aren't more from 

741
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:07,880
young women born than from young
than from men, because the birth

742
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:09,880
rates in our community are 
roughly 5050. 

743
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,280
And I'm not 100% sure, but my 
sense is that if you look at day

744
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:17,040
school graduates, roughly the 
same number are graduating boys 

745
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,080
and girls from yeshiva high 
schools in the Mador Fox 

746
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,320
community. 
So the question is what? 

747
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,720
Where did all the young men go? 
That that's the $64 million 

748
00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:27,000
question you can ask. 
Spend all the money you want on 

749
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:28,880
singles events and shot condos 
and so on. 

750
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,480
It doesn't help you short of I 
say this jokingly of being not 

751
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,320
through the Herme Rabina Gero 
show, because short of that, 

752
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,000
there just aren't enough bodies.
It's a game of musical chairs. 

753
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,760
Again, I want to emphasize I say
that only tongue in cheek. 

754
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:43,280
Nobody. 
I'm not suggesting that we 

755
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,360
should be not through the Herme 
Rabina Gero show, but. 

756
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:47,880
But it's it's it's a it's a 
numbers game. 

757
00:38:48,230 --> 00:38:51,190
It's simply a numbers game and 
what I think is clear to a lot 

758
00:38:51,190 --> 00:38:55,990
of us, there is certainly more 
gear, more conversion and more 

759
00:38:55,990 --> 00:38:58,150
Bali chuva. 
It appears amongst women. 

760
00:38:58,150 --> 00:39:00,870
I know when it comes to gay was 
far more women than men. 

761
00:39:01,030 --> 00:39:03,190
Far. 
I mean in, you know, multiples 

762
00:39:03,350 --> 00:39:06,430
3-4 times the number of women, 
men and many of them are not 

763
00:39:06,430 --> 00:39:08,430
coming because they're attached 
to Jewish men. 

764
00:39:08,430 --> 00:39:11,230
Some are. 
And my sense amongst Bali Chuva 

765
00:39:11,230 --> 00:39:13,870
also talking to people in the 
field, at least in the matter 

766
00:39:13,870 --> 00:39:16,190
Orthodox world, is there far 
more women than men? 

767
00:39:17,310 --> 00:39:20,550
But it's not just that it it 
seems to be pretty clear that 

768
00:39:20,550 --> 00:39:23,270
they're far more younger men 
dropping out than young women, 

769
00:39:24,350 --> 00:39:27,990
and that requires its own 
sociological study. 

770
00:39:28,110 --> 00:39:31,190
If I were a betting man, it's 
not the only factor, but the 

771
00:39:31,310 --> 00:39:35,070
looming economic albatross 
around the necks of young men, 

772
00:39:35,070 --> 00:39:37,870
especially if they're not like 
the superstars or really they're

773
00:39:37,870 --> 00:39:40,230
going to go into finance for 
those who sort of can't hack 

774
00:39:40,230 --> 00:39:41,630
those careers. 
They're not. 

775
00:39:41,630 --> 00:39:43,710
They're not. 
Students enough to get into 

776
00:39:43,710 --> 00:39:46,030
medical school. 
They're not going to get jobs in

777
00:39:46,030 --> 00:39:49,190
finance, I would imagine. 
I don't know. 

778
00:39:49,190 --> 00:39:51,670
I would imagine for many of 
them, it's just much easier to 

779
00:39:51,670 --> 00:39:54,750
check out than to face that 
lulling burden, because it's 

780
00:39:54,750 --> 00:39:57,270
just enormous. 
Anybody can do the arithmetic 

781
00:39:57,510 --> 00:39:59,990
before you even get the issue 
with the wishing's expensive. 

782
00:40:00,390 --> 00:40:02,870
And then if you're smart enough 
to do the arithmetic a little 

783
00:40:02,870 --> 00:40:05,550
bit beyond that, you realize how
impossible it is. 

784
00:40:06,310 --> 00:40:09,960
So I I think I don't know. 
I would like to believe, because

785
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,440
I'm an optimist, that if we 
solved the issue with tuition 

786
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,400
issue and we did a little bit of
work on the materialism issue, 

787
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,680
we'd have lots of fewer young 
men dropping out. 

788
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,920
Because at least that I think 
there are other pressures on 

789
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,840
them too. 
But I think that this I imagine 

790
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,240
again, I don't say this 
certainty, that this is a 

791
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,360
significant piece of what's 
intimidating, what's and and 

792
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:30,960
what makes it just easier for 
them to say check please. 

793
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,760
That's the sense that I get. 
You know, I speak to a lot of 

794
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:37,670
single guys and. 
Just the pressure of the 

795
00:40:37,670 --> 00:40:40,510
expectations, it's just 
overwhelming. 

796
00:40:40,510 --> 00:40:42,990
So I I definitely think that 
you're onto something there. 

797
00:40:43,310 --> 00:40:46,710
And for the last question is 
kind of ties in financial 

798
00:40:46,710 --> 00:40:50,190
pressure causes some people to 
cut corners or get involved in 

799
00:40:50,190 --> 00:40:52,550
businesses that don't have any 
social utility. 

800
00:40:53,630 --> 00:40:56,550
I feel that you should vote 
should provide classes on home 

801
00:40:56,550 --> 00:41:01,590
economics, accounting and career
guidance that prepare students 

802
00:41:01,590 --> 00:41:04,910
on what they should expect. 
In terms of being able to afford

803
00:41:04,910 --> 00:41:08,790
a modern Orthodox lifestyle, are
we pushing our children in the 

804
00:41:08,790 --> 00:41:17,550
right direction career wise? 
There are several pieces there, 

805
00:41:18,070 --> 00:41:20,030
and let me first talk about 
cutting corners. 

806
00:41:22,990 --> 00:41:26,750
True story, I was at a wedding 
relatively recently after I had 

807
00:41:26,750 --> 00:41:29,600
done a. 
A podcast on this topic that got

808
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:33,880
around a little bit and a fellow
walks up to me, you know, in the

809
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:39,600
schmore time, introduces himself
and he says that he's an agent 

810
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:43,600
for the IRS. 
So my first response is I paid 

811
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,160
all my taxes. 
I didn't do anything wrong, but 

812
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,880
he was coming over to express 
his appreciation. 

813
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,040
And one of the things that he 
said to me was that he works in 

814
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,680
whatever particular group and 
he's the visible Jew. 

815
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,690
He's wearing his key pot. 
And the guys in his unit say to 

816
00:41:59,690 --> 00:42:02,410
him like, what's going on here 
now? 

817
00:42:02,410 --> 00:42:04,730
What? 
I I didn't ask him for details 

818
00:42:04,970 --> 00:42:06,570
and I didn't ask him for 
demographic. 

819
00:42:06,570 --> 00:42:08,370
But what you what? 
What I walked away with 

820
00:42:08,370 --> 00:42:11,210
understanding is there are many 
ho shakey pop. 

821
00:42:11,290 --> 00:42:13,330
I don't know which stripe of 
orthodoxy. 

822
00:42:13,330 --> 00:42:16,370
It could be all stripes of 
orthodoxy who are running into 

823
00:42:16,370 --> 00:42:18,570
enough trouble with the IRS 
because they're cheating on 

824
00:42:18,570 --> 00:42:21,650
their taxes Now are they cheat? 
The truth is are they cheating 

825
00:42:21,650 --> 00:42:24,010
on their taxes just to cut 
corners because they can't make 

826
00:42:24,010 --> 00:42:26,690
it otherwise? 
Because lots of wealthy people 

827
00:42:26,690 --> 00:42:28,850
cheat on the taxes. 
In fact, I would. 

828
00:42:29,130 --> 00:42:31,290
I would bet that it might be 
even more common there. 

829
00:42:31,770 --> 00:42:34,650
And I would certainly say that 
people who are salaried can't 

830
00:42:34,650 --> 00:42:36,370
really cheat on their taxes. 
I mean, you can cheat on the 

831
00:42:36,370 --> 00:42:37,490
margins. 
You can't do very much. 

832
00:42:37,490 --> 00:42:39,850
It's the people who tend to be 
very wealthy people who are in 

833
00:42:39,850 --> 00:42:42,090
business. 
Some are not so wealthy but who 

834
00:42:42,090 --> 00:42:44,090
tend to cheat more. 
I don't know whether it's 

835
00:42:44,090 --> 00:42:46,410
cutting corners to survive or 
it's cutting corners because of 

836
00:42:46,410 --> 00:42:49,330
grief. 
So I I can't really say for 

837
00:42:49,330 --> 00:42:53,770
sure. 
But but then the next question 

838
00:42:53,770 --> 00:42:55,990
is. 
What kind of professions the 

839
00:42:55,990 --> 00:42:59,870
people choose to go into, and 
that I think is a real concern. 

840
00:42:59,870 --> 00:43:02,430
One of the things that's 
happened in Yu, just as an 

841
00:43:02,430 --> 00:43:06,590
example, in the last 10 years. 
But there was a point where the 

842
00:43:06,870 --> 00:43:09,950
one of the people who had gone 
to Israel, you know, one of the 

843
00:43:10,710 --> 00:43:13,270
rabbinic administrators who gone
to Israel came back and said to 

844
00:43:13,270 --> 00:43:16,510
us for the first time, Sy Sims 
is larger than Yeshiva College. 

845
00:43:16,510 --> 00:43:20,350
Shiva College is the kind of 
humanities, humanities and 

846
00:43:20,350 --> 00:43:23,350
sciences, whereas Sy Sims is the
School of Business. 

847
00:43:24,150 --> 00:43:27,830
And, you know, and premed 
amongst the young men has 

848
00:43:27,830 --> 00:43:30,670
shrunk, really shriveled up in 
Yu, which is kind of astounding 

849
00:43:30,910 --> 00:43:32,750
in my day. 
You want to make a lot of money.

850
00:43:32,750 --> 00:43:33,710
You went to medical school, 
right? 

851
00:43:33,710 --> 00:43:36,070
It was really a challenge, you 
know, getting a near perfect 

852
00:43:36,070 --> 00:43:39,070
GPA, doing well on your M cats. 
You got at the medical school, 

853
00:43:39,190 --> 00:43:40,830
you had a lot of years of 
training, but then you had it 

854
00:43:40,830 --> 00:43:42,950
made. 
It's not whether, it's whether 

855
00:43:42,950 --> 00:43:45,350
medicine is not exactly what it 
once was. 

856
00:43:45,550 --> 00:43:48,550
The perception now is you can't 
make enough money as a doctor, 

857
00:43:48,590 --> 00:43:51,450
which is insane. 
But it also means that more and 

858
00:43:51,450 --> 00:43:54,450
more guys feel, and I know that 
there are many students who feel

859
00:43:54,450 --> 00:43:56,010
they have no choice. 
Not because they want to. 

860
00:43:56,210 --> 00:43:59,010
They have to go into finance, 
broadly speaking. 

861
00:43:59,010 --> 00:44:02,490
Yeah. 
And there is an important 

862
00:44:02,770 --> 00:44:08,530
there's certainly a meaningful 
need for capital in a capitalist

863
00:44:08,530 --> 00:44:11,050
society. 
I think it's also pretty clear 

864
00:44:11,050 --> 00:44:15,410
that the financial sector has 
taken on an outsized role in our

865
00:44:15,410 --> 00:44:16,890
economy and has done a lot of 
damage. 

866
00:44:16,930 --> 00:44:19,930
And there's a lot of what's done
that has no social utility on a 

867
00:44:19,930 --> 00:44:22,010
good day. 
And it's truly anal safety. 

868
00:44:22,010 --> 00:44:25,170
You should be sure and are young
people, many of them, those, 

869
00:44:25,290 --> 00:44:28,250
those who have the shot, feel 
like they have no choice but to 

870
00:44:28,250 --> 00:44:29,330
do that. 
And that's terrible. 

871
00:44:29,890 --> 00:44:33,250
If someone loves finance, if 
there's that, you know, leaves 

872
00:44:33,250 --> 00:44:35,170
them dreaming at night thinking 
about it, okay. 

873
00:44:35,370 --> 00:44:37,450
So that that's what that's what 
they're really interested in. 

874
00:44:37,450 --> 00:44:40,120
They should behave ethically. 
Hopefully find the parts that 

875
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:41,760
are a little and more social 
utility. 

876
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,240
But so many young people are 
being forced into careers that 

877
00:44:45,240 --> 00:44:47,240
they don't want to be in. 
And if there's one place that 

878
00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:50,000
this is even the crisis is, it's
not looming. 

879
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,400
It's here is we can't get 
educators. 

880
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:56,000
It's true in America generally, 
but it's acute in the in the in 

881
00:44:56,000 --> 00:45:00,080
the Orthodox community. 
And what I have been told by 

882
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,400
heads of school is that it's not
Once Upon a time. 

883
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:05,200
It's hard to find modern 
Orthodox educators. 

884
00:45:05,830 --> 00:45:07,990
And Modern Orthodox is high. 
God forbid your child will be in

885
00:45:07,990 --> 00:45:11,150
the high or rabbi. 
That changed for a long time, I 

886
00:45:11,150 --> 00:45:12,830
think in the 90s and the early 
aughts. 

887
00:45:13,190 --> 00:45:17,430
And I think that after the 2008 
recession where the wealth gap 

888
00:45:17,430 --> 00:45:20,030
started to really accelerate in 
America and in our community 

889
00:45:20,030 --> 00:45:23,470
too, it became seen as less and 
less viable to go into clear 

890
00:45:23,910 --> 00:45:26,550
career of Clay Codesh. 
There is a shortage in the 

891
00:45:26,550 --> 00:45:31,190
pulpit, there's a real shortage 
in schools and they can't find 

892
00:45:31,190 --> 00:45:32,830
teachers. 
And not just from the Modern 

893
00:45:32,830 --> 00:45:35,540
Orthodox community. 
From Lakewood, from the yeshiva 

894
00:45:35,540 --> 00:45:40,460
world, It's harder to harder to 
find and and if and I was told, 

895
00:45:40,460 --> 00:45:43,620
I didn't verify this first hand,
that the Russia yeshiva and 

896
00:45:43,620 --> 00:45:45,980
Lakewood told their students 
that they shouldn't marry 

897
00:45:47,100 --> 00:45:48,900
teachers because they don't make
enough money. 

898
00:45:48,900 --> 00:45:52,940
They should marry OT's and PT's.
And if that's true and whether 

899
00:45:52,940 --> 00:45:54,620
it actually happened or not, I 
don't know. 

900
00:45:54,620 --> 00:45:57,340
But I'm, I'm told from other 
places that the young women 

901
00:45:57,340 --> 00:45:59,740
don't want to go with the 
teacher anymore first, whether 

902
00:45:59,740 --> 00:46:02,300
or not because of things that 
Russia yeshiva might have said. 

903
00:46:03,490 --> 00:46:05,890
That means there aren't going to
be teachers and the shortage is 

904
00:46:05,890 --> 00:46:07,650
here. 
The short it is already a 

905
00:46:07,650 --> 00:46:10,690
desperate shortage, and it's 
only going to get worse if you 

906
00:46:10,690 --> 00:46:12,930
change the economic model of our
community. 

907
00:46:12,930 --> 00:46:16,010
If you she the tuition which 
even granted educators get a 

908
00:46:16,010 --> 00:46:18,650
discount on, but in many places 
it's still, it's not like it's 

909
00:46:18,650 --> 00:46:23,850
100% off. 
But if you change that model and

910
00:46:23,850 --> 00:46:26,450
your end you have to address the
material of this issue, you 

911
00:46:26,450 --> 00:46:28,810
might find that you have a lot 
more people are interested in 

912
00:46:28,810 --> 00:46:30,850
going into Hinoch and Favo de 
Sacodesh. 

913
00:46:32,450 --> 00:46:36,290
So, so I think that and so to go
to your last question, I mean 

914
00:46:36,290 --> 00:46:38,170
which I agree 100%. 
We don't have financial 

915
00:46:38,170 --> 00:46:40,090
education in our schools. 
It's a disaster. 

916
00:46:40,130 --> 00:46:42,930
It needs to be done. 
There are curricula out there. 

917
00:46:42,930 --> 00:46:46,810
It has to be we, we need a 
financial education for Torahash

918
00:46:46,810 --> 00:46:48,650
Koffa about finances and 
economics. 

919
00:46:48,890 --> 00:46:52,970
We need financial education for 
practice to know exactly how it 

920
00:46:52,970 --> 00:46:55,130
is to be financially 
responsible, to understand all 

921
00:46:55,130 --> 00:46:56,850
the vehicles of savings 
etcetera. 

922
00:46:57,450 --> 00:46:59,130
We have to construct different 
ethics. 

923
00:46:59,700 --> 00:47:01,980
I think business if people are 
getting you know unfortunate 

924
00:47:01,980 --> 00:47:04,740
there's a small segment who are 
getting involved in like cash 

925
00:47:04,740 --> 00:47:08,660
advance and these kind of you 
know, you know I don't but 

926
00:47:08,660 --> 00:47:11,300
that's that's an example of 
people getting desperate and 

927
00:47:11,300 --> 00:47:14,220
trying to make a big a quick 
buck and they don't realize that

928
00:47:14,420 --> 00:47:18,580
the anti-Semitic you know can 
that they're kicking down the 

929
00:47:18,580 --> 00:47:20,460
road that's going to eventually 
come back to haunt. 

930
00:47:20,780 --> 00:47:24,660
There's enormous need for 
everything related to money in 

931
00:47:24,860 --> 00:47:28,900
our fin of system because right 
now we have virtually not. 

932
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:32,960
Virtually none. 
And both from a practical and a 

933
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,920
spiritual Holacic perspective, 
we need a lot of it. 

934
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:39,840
We need both of those sides. 
So yes. 

935
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:42,040
Well, thank you so much for 
this. 

936
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,640
I think this is a great 
conversation starter, and I I 

937
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:49,520
urge everybody who's listening 
to listen to Rabbi Weider on 

938
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:51,960
other podcasts. 
He talks about this. 

939
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:54,360
You're on the kosher what is it 
called? 

940
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:56,680
Kosher money? 
Podcaster Money, Podcast. 

941
00:47:57,430 --> 00:48:01,150
And other podcasts like this. 
So thank you so much for coming 

942
00:48:01,150 --> 00:48:03,270
on again and I really appreciate
your time. 

943
00:48:03,270 --> 00:48:04,750
Thank you guys so much for 
having me. 

944
00:48:05,630 --> 00:48:14,030
Thank you. 
Hey guys, thanks so much for 

945
00:48:14,030 --> 00:48:16,350
tuning in to the Judas and 
Demystified podcast. 

946
00:48:16,350 --> 00:48:20,350
We really appreciate all your 
support and your feedback if you

947
00:48:20,350 --> 00:48:22,620
want to help us. 
Grow the podcast. 

948
00:48:22,820 --> 00:48:26,060
Keep spreading the word, Share 
it with your friends, family or 

949
00:48:26,060 --> 00:48:27,460
whoever you think would be 
interested. 

950
00:48:28,260 --> 00:48:31,820
We also opened a Patreon so you 
can become a patron. 

951
00:48:32,020 --> 00:48:34,820
Contribute any small amount 
you'd like, which would really 

952
00:48:34,820 --> 00:48:38,300
help us grow the show. 
Our Patreon is 

953
00:48:38,660 --> 00:48:44,820
www.patreon.com/judaism. 
Pretty easy to remember. 

954
00:48:45,220 --> 00:48:48,380
Thank you again and we hope to 
keep putting out great shows for

955
00:48:48,380 --> 00:48:53,650
you guys. 
Play song.