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Welcome to Judaism Demystified, 
a podcast for the perplexed. 

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Join us as we explore some of 
the most fascinating Jewish and 

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Torah related topics with our 
esteemed guests. 

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By tackling some of the biggest 
questions you likely won't find 

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addressed elsewhere, we aim to 
shed light on important issues 

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and inspire a return to the 
fundamentals. 

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Enjoy the show. 
Thank you for joining the 

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Judaism Demystified podcast. 
Before we begin, I would like to

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first introduce our guest, Jesse
Fishbein. 

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So Jesse is actually a friend of
Rabbi Matt Schneeweiss, who 

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recommended you to us. 
When I asked him the first time 

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I had him on, we actually 
discussed, you know, the 

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rational approach to prayer. 
And I asked him after the 

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podcast, I'm like, who's someone
you recommend? 

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We, we have a whole podcast 
about that. 

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Who should we have on? 
And he right away said your 

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name. 
So I, I got your book and I 

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thought it was unbelievable and 
I thought it was really amazing.

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We're going to talk about that. 
But before we begin, I'd like 

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just for you to tell the 
audience a little bit about 

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yourself and your background. 
OK, my name is Jesse Fishbein. 

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I, I don't know that I have any 
official background other than 

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I've been in Henoch for about 
20, more than 20 years at this 

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point. 
So I guess that's a background 

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right there. 
But that's not my background and

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it's Fila in prayer. 
We'll talk more about that. 

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But my, I started teaching I 
think in 99, started teaching 

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high school and I mainly was a 
hummus teacher for many years. 

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I give local shurim. 
I get classes wherever I go, 

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wherever I travel for Shabbos. 
I always do you if can I speak 

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in the neighborhood. 
I love speaking to different 

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Jewish communities, just sharing
Torah, seeing what they have to 

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say. 
I really enjoy that I 

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homeschool. 
I'm a homeschooler, so that's a 

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kind of a side that's or my main
thing or my side thing, 

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depending on how you look at it.
The whole time that I was 

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teaching in high school, I also 
was simultaneously homeschooling

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my my own children. 
And right now I'm translating 

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for Alatorra. 
I'm working on the before shore.

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So that's my current project. 
Yeah. 

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And I was, I was scared to do 
it, honestly, but he, he pushed 

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me and I said fine, you take the
heat 'cause I'm not, you know, 

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if I get things wrong, it's on 
your head. 

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You 2 have final say. 
So I'm doing what I can and, and

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you know, that last 10%, the 
hard part, I leave that to him. 

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But it's a lot of fun, very 
interesting and, and my, I hope 

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to my next big project. 
I really want to write a book on

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prayer in the Bible. 
So you kind of got me before my 

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big project, but this is my 
introductory book. 

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So we'll we'll talk more about 
that. 

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So so we got you before you got 
famous. 

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That's so anyway, so I want to 
just get right into it because I

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think this this is such an 
important topic and I know I 

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know people who are going to be,
you know, very interested in 

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listening to this episode. 
The topic is infertility and 

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it's a very, it's a deeply 
personal struggle for people and

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what makes your book Infertility
in the Bible, how the matriarchs

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change their fate and how you 
can too. 

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And what makes it stand out is 
it's informal, accessible style 

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and inclusivity beyond just 
Jewish and theistic readers. 

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I, I, I love the fact that you 
wrote in a way that it was for 

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everyone and you have tried to 
explain basic concepts for 

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anyone who's reading, whether 
they're skeptic or atheist, 

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which is really beautiful. 
What inspired you to write this 

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book, first of all, and how have
readers who struggled with 

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infertility responded to it? 
OK, well, I'll, I'll answer a 

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little bit out of order. 
I really particularly wanted to 

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write it for everybody. 
I wanted it for all human 

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beings. 
I wanted it to be for anybody 

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who had any interest in the 
topic about what the Torah has 

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to say about infertility and 
what Judaism has to say. 

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I wanted to be accessible to 
everyone, and being a high 

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school teacher, I did end up 
speaking to so many people who 

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are really in a part in a time 
of life where they're just not 

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sure what they believe and 
they're really unsure about 

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things. 
And I wanted to be able to speak

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to everyone wherever they were 
at. 

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So that was that decision I 
started. 

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There were so many stages of my 
life. 

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I wrote this book. 
I think right now I started 

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investigating this topic about 
20, five years ago. 

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This book, I think was is 
published almost 17 years. 

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It was published in 2005 and my 
second child, so at the time I 

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had one child came very easy, 
thank God. 

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And then when I was trying for 
my second child, it took a few 

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years, took a couple of years 
and I found that I was looking 

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for inspiration. 
I was looking to the Torah. 

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I was looking for things to I 
was looking for books to read on

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the topic other than the actual 
Torah. 

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And I found that the books that 
I was looking for did not exist.

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So I started studying the 
stories in the Torah because 

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obviously infertility is a huge 
theme in Torah, especially Sarah

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Rifka, Rakha, Leia to some 
degree, Hana Miha, all this, all

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the the people that I mentioned 
in my book. 

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And as I started, I started 
gathering information just for 

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myself, just to understand the 
topic because I was in so much 

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pain and I was looking for 
inspiration and I was looking 

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for help and how to handle this 
emotionally, how to handle this 

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spiritually, how to handle this.
What am I supposed to do with 

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myself? 
Does the Torah have an answer 

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for me? 
Is there, is there anything I 

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can do? 
Am I just, am I just helpless in

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this situation? 
So obviously, aside from 

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medically, the medical things 
that we were pursuing and, you 

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know, what does the Torah have 
to say about it? 

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And so I found an approach. 
And of course, since at the time

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I mostly was a teacher, I, I 
wasn't necessarily, I've always 

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been a writer, but I was more a 
teacher. 

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So I imagined that I would set 
it up as a, as a series of she 

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or, and when I had it all 
together. 

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So then my daughter was born. 
My first two kids are 5 1/2 

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years apart and when my daughter
was about two years old, I had 

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this outline and I had all my 
notes and, and one of my friends

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suggested to me you should make 
it into a book. 

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You have it all there, just 
write it up. 

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So I wrote it up and 
interestingly enough, so she was

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about two at the time when I 
started writing and then when I 

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finished writing it. 
Then there was the process of 

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finding a publisher and then 
there was, I was in the middle 

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of editing. 
So at around 22, around 2 years 

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old, you're usually trying for 
the next kid. 

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I actually went into an even 
worse and even more painful 

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situation of infertility. 
My first stage of infertility 

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was that I was unable to get 
pregnant and I was just doing 

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the normal treatments that 
fertility treatments. 

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My second stage of infertility, 
which is while I was in the 

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middle of editing this book, was
pregnancy loss, late stage 

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pregnancy loss, trimester 
pregnancy loss. 

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So I had, I think I'm trying to 
think I was in the middle of my 

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third in a row. 
I think was the first I was 

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pregnant. 
I was pregnant after having 2 

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mid trimester pregnancy losses. 
The night that I gave a speech, 

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I think my first speech for this
book, and that was the night 

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that I spoke to someone in the 
audience who was also a 

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recurrent miscarrier. 
She gave me the name of a doctor

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and that's the doctor I found 
who who helped me with with my 

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subsequent children. 
So, and it was in the middle of 

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that that I wrote the chapter 
on, on David Hamelich, on King 

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David and how he dealt with the 
loss of his infant because I, I 

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felt that I hadn't experienced 
that up to that point. 

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And I wanted to add that 
chapter. 

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And so I sent that to my to my 
editor publisher, and they put 

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in that last chapter there at 
that point. 

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Well, now that you bring that 
up, for those who are 

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unfamiliar, can you give us a 
little bit about that, that 

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story of Davida Melech and his 
and his infant loss? 

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The story is well, I mean really
that's part of the whole story 

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of David and Bacheva with the 
famous David and Bacheva story 

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that David did sin and David and
Bacheva she she got pregnant 

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from that, which is why he ended
up doing the cover up and 

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killing Oria. 
And Hashem sent the prophet 

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Nathan and he was told that this
baby is going to die. 

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And he knew going in that the 
baby was going to die. 

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And he knew going in that it was
a sin. 

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It was because of a sin that he 
did a punishment. 

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And he, he spends a lot of time 
crying over that baby and, and 

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praying and hoping that the baby
would survive. 

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And the baby did not survive. 
He did do tuba. 

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He did, he was told, OK, you'll 
live, but David himself would 

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live. 
But the baby was going to die. 

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And it's a it's a very poignant 
story because the baby dies and 

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everyone's afraid to tell him 
because he's been crying and not

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eating for a week. 
And he says, you know, he gets 

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up and he and he goes to and he 
goes to the base of Miktash and,

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and they his, all the people. 
His response is very different 

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than than even his servants 
expected. 

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So they were expecting a him to 
be destroyed, but instead he was

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the opposite of the short. 
He was like, OK, I'm going to 

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pick myself up, which is 
something amazing. 

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That's really an inspiration. 
And and they they couldn't 

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understand. 
They said, why are you behaving 

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this way? 
You know, we thought you'd be 

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completely wiped out from this. 
You were so upset. 

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And he said, look, when I 
thought that there was something

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I could do, I was vomiting, I 
was crying, I was weeping. 

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I I thought maybe I could change
something. 

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But now that I can't change 
anything, OK. 

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And it's time to move on to the 
next to the next. 

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You know, he says, I'll I'll go,
I'm, I'm going to him, I'm going

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to him in death. 
He's not coming back to me. 

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So it's a very interesting 
statement. 

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And I think even when I wrote 
that, I wrote this in my 20s and

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I've since realized now I have 
grown children. 

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You know, he went through a 
rough time in his life with, 

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with his older children. 
So I really, I don't think I, I 

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even appreciate it. 
I hadn't had older children yet,

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but dev it enough like. 
So my main thing is that I was 

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really trying to draw 
inspiration from every Tanakh 

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character that I could when I'm 
dealing with pain and suffering.

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I, I wasn't just, I was writing 
this in the framework of 

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infertility, but really I was, I
wanted to make it broader than 

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that. 
I wanted to make it a book for 

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anyone who is dealing with any 
category of suffering and what 

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does the Torah say? 
How to handle suffering? 

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And especially I think the 
problem is that I think a lot of

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people get nervous and it's 
reasonable. 

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It's, it's a proper approach 
when bad things happen. 

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The first thing you have to ask 
yourself is did I sin? 

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So, but I would like to, I 
specifically was looking at the 

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infertility situation. 
I, I have a small chapter with, 

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with Mihal because Mihal, it's 
clear that her situation was 

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because of Aveira, because of 
sin and David enough also 

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because of sin. 
But I think a lot of times, 

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specifically with regard to the 
matriarchs, it is not because of

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sin. 
That's not, that's not the cause

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at all. 
So I think it's very important 

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when things are happening that 
when you're suffering. 

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So of course you have to do that
introspection. 

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You have to look and see, is 
there anything that I've done? 

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But unless a prophet comes and 
tells you you did something 

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wrong, there has to be another 
approach here. 

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Because a lot of times the type 
of suffering that we're going 

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through, like your basic 
categories of suffering, 

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financial losses, health losses,
different penalty with children,

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those types of things, they're 
the same types of there's like 

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universal pains out there. 
And you could look around and 

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you could say I'm suffering like
I'm having these miscarriages, 

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babies dying over and over and 
over. 

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And I'm trying to do 2. 
I'm trying to become better. 

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And like, I don't think that I'm
that much worse than the people 

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around me. 
So, so is this, is this a, is 

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God smiting me? 
What is it smiting me? 

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Like what's happening here? 
So I need it. 

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I was looking for some type of 
an approach from the Torah for 

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this type of a situation in a 
broad in a broad sense. 

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Amazing, yeah. 
Think that from like you 

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mentioned, from the stories of 
the mouth, you can also look at 

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Ferdin Eov, majority cases 
actually in the Torah is it's 

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not necessarily coming direct, 
direct from a sin unless like 

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you said, a prophet comes in and
mentions it. 

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You know, the Torah will find a 
way to make it clear if so. 

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But we see a lot of times that 
suffering is kind of part of a 

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plan, I guess, right. 
And I think today it's become 

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like common. 
It's been common to link 

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everything with sin, which like 
you say, if it's about you 

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looking at yourself and trying 
to improve yourself, great. 

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But I think that what's also 
happening is, is there's like 

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people are just, you know, 
freaking out, like, you know, 

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did I do something wrong? 
What did I do wrong in the 

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almost like a, like a guilt way 
instead of a let me improve 

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myself because that's, that's a 
good way to get meaning from 

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something that has gone wrong 
instead of trying to, you know, 

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improve by by attaching meaning 
to your experience. 

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It's becoming more of like this,
like paranoia, almost like, you 

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know, guilt ridden thing and 
it's really unhealthy. 

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00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,600
Yeah, I think it's, I think it's
not productive to do that. 

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I remember this is years ago, I 
remember a friend of mine, she 

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had leukemia and we, she was 
trying to figure out why God 

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would do this to her. 
And, and I said, like, I really 

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don't think that that is the 
approach. 

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I think, you know, I said, what 
if you find out in, in 10 years,

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we, this is even before we knew 
we had, I don't think we had the

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human genome yet. 
Like what if you find out that 

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this is genetic, like right now 
you're doing this tremendous 

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00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,320
clutch bone on nefesh about, 
about, you know, why is God 

256
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hurting me in this? 
What is God trying to tell me? 

257
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And she's saying things like, 
'cause she watched Sex in the 

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City or something like that. 
And, and I said, I said, you 

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know, millions of people are 
watching Sex in the City. 

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I actually, personally, I only 
watched the movies with my 

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00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:25,320
mother-in-law. 
I went with her, but I, I don't 

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think I, I really saw an 
episode, but you know, Even so 

263
00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,120
you're going to say that that 
Hashem is punishing you by 

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giving you leukemia for sex in 
the city. 

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When, when like, maybe it's 
genetic. 

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Maybe it's genetic. 
Like you have to, you have to, 

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you have to have safe help 
because otherwise you're ending 

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up like you said, you have this 
guilt. 

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It's not productive. 
You feel terrible. 

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And what are you? 
The the goal of Yusurim, the 

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goal of negative things 
happening is to promote growth 

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according to Judaism and greater
growth, greater insight and 

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00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:03,280
feeling just bad about yourself 
is not is not the approach I was

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00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:05,000
trying to. 
Do and, and, and people, you 

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00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,640
know, unfortunately today 
they're even not just blaming 

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themselves, but sometimes 
they're blaming like external 

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factors that are just imagined. 
Like they'll say, Oh, it's, it's

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00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,200
must be iron Hara or it must be 
that they're trying to pin it on

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something else instead of, like 
you said, focusing on maybe it's

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00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:23,200
a medical thing. 
Maybe it's just something you 

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00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,440
can actually look, look into. 
You could find out if you have, 

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if you're genetically 
predisposed to something, you 

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00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:29,240
have to go see the right 
doctors. 

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00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,880
And you know, I think that, you 
know, that's part of the reason 

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00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,200
why I want to do this podcast 
because there's a lot of people 

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00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,880
like you mentioned Avita Mella 
and I wanted to go go into that 

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00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,840
because specifically in that 
story, like you mentioned, he 

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00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,920
says, I will, I will basically 
be reunited after I die, right? 

289
00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,040
That, that whole idea, even 
today, you see a lot of people 

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00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:48,920
will say like when they go 
through a tragedy and they lose 

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00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,240
a family, I would say they'll, 
they'll complete these ideas of 

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00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:56,280
like Ulan Haba with Mashiach and
resurrection and say when, when 

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00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:58,760
Mashiach comes, I'm going to be 
reunited with my child. 

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00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:02,280
And it, it can also be kind of 
like fault it, it, you're 

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00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:05,280
setting yourself up for, for, 
for a disappointment, right. 

296
00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:10,120
And we want people to have a 
very not, not just kind of like 

297
00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:14,480
have an imagine imaginary view 
of things, but actually stick 

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00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:18,840
to, you know, rational thought 
and our tradition and so on. 

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00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:23,440
So I feel like your your points 
are very, very important here. 

300
00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:32,120
So you present a rational 
approach to prayer or addressing

301
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,560
a common struggle. 
Why pray if Hashem is 

302
00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,760
unchanging? 
Your perspective is refreshing. 

303
00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:42,480
Can you clarify what prayer 
truly is and how it different? 

304
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,240
How it differs apology from 
common misconceptions? 

305
00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:53,880
Yes, OK, so I think that my idea
of prayer when I was a kid, I 

306
00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:58,560
just kind of felt like, I 
imagine, I guess a, a, a king, a

307
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,400
human flesh and blood king or 
someone that you're, you're 

308
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,160
throwing yourself on the mercy 
and you're begging really hard 

309
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:05,520
and you say please, please, 
please. 

310
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,800
And they have, I guess mercy on 
you and they give you what you 

311
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,400
ask for. 
And what I find so fascinating 

312
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:17,640
about prayer is that if you look
at our Judaism's understanding 

313
00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:19,880
of Hashem, like none of it makes
sense. 

314
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:24,280
The whole concept of prayer is, 
is like it's very difficult to 

315
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,240
understand. 
It's it's, it's almost 

316
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,119
nonsensical because what are you
actually doing? 

317
00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,760
The first thing, the first 
problem is, is that Hashem knows

318
00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:33,360
everything. 
He knows everything. 

319
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:35,920
He knows what I'm about to say. 
I could stand there. 

320
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,880
I could walk into his office, so
to speak, and say not a word. 

321
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,960
And if Hashem is omniscient, 
then he knows exactly what is 

322
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:43,800
what I'm going to say. 
He knows everything that I'm 

323
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,080
thinking, everything. 
So what am I actually doing? 

324
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:53,280
That's the first question. 
Another aspect of it is that if 

325
00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,600
Hashem is perfect, as Torah 
Tamim Pauloki called Rahad 

326
00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,800
Mishpat, if Hashem is running 
the world perfectly, what am I 

327
00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:02,320
doing here? 
There's not, there's no point in

328
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:03,760
asking anything. 
Everything has already worked 

329
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:05,880
out perfectly. 
So what am I doing? 

330
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:08,240
What do I have a job to do in 
domining? 

331
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:09,800
What am I, what am I trying to 
do here? 

332
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:12,920
Am I trying to say that Hashem's
world is not perfect? 

333
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:15,440
Am I trying to change the way 
that Hashem already made its 

334
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,760
decisions? 
So, and yet we know for sure in 

335
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,200
the Torah that there's so much 
prayer in the Torah. 

336
00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,480
So we know like Moshe Arbedo, 
you could ask that that's and 

337
00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,320
Moshe Arbedo. 
And so Hashem says with the 

338
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,200
golden calf, I'm going to 
destroy them. 

339
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,920
So Hashem knows everything. 
So is he right? 

340
00:18:32,120 --> 00:18:35,040
What is, Who's Moshe to say? 
No, no, no, I don't think that's

341
00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,760
a good idea. 
It's like I love the I don't 

342
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,760
call it the arrogance of humans,
but it's like Hashem is inviting

343
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:43,360
us. 
I won't say to be arrogant, but 

344
00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:47,480
I would say NASA Adam, that we 
should do this together, that 

345
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:52,000
Hashem puts us in a situation 
where we have a contribution to 

346
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,280
make to our situation. 
You you actually see that all 

347
00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:59,680
over with Abraham, Yona, Elio, 
Navi, to some extent I'm 

348
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:01,680
forgetting off the top of my 
head, but it's almost like the 

349
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,920
prophets are constantly in a 
dialogue with God. 

350
00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:06,040
Yes. 
Yeah. 

351
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:07,120
Yeah. 
So. 

352
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,440
Even with some klutzpah, 
sometimes you know. 

353
00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:11,360
Absolutely. 
I mean Khan is my favorite with 

354
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,640
klutzpah. 
But yes, so, so I think I mean 

355
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,280
she she taught us klutzpah in 
domining particularly. 

356
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:23,360
But the question is, what are we
trying to do? 

357
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,120
If, if it's already, if Hashem 
is perfect, then he already 

358
00:19:26,120 --> 00:19:28,400
knows what's best. 
So what are we trying to do? 

359
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:30,760
And then I'll just throw this on
the side. 

360
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:33,080
It's a side question. 
But like we have this idea that 

361
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:34,520
Davini is called avoda Shiva 
life. 

362
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,200
It's service. 
So I'll just throw it in. 

363
00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:40,360
Why are we serving Hashem? 
Hashem's not an egomaniac. 

364
00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:42,160
He doesn't need our service. 
He has no needs. 

365
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,360
So what does that even mean that
we're doing service? 

366
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:46,440
But that's that's to do with 
carbonos and the base. 

367
00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:48,440
And it's all the same. 
It's all part of the same 

368
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,960
question, but it's just the 
whole, the whole area of Davin 

369
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:56,640
is a very large, difficult, 
difficult philosophical area. 

370
00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,280
So, and yet, and yet we are, we 
do it. 

371
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:02,200
We do it every day. 
We do it three times a day. 

372
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:08,280
What are we doing exactly? 
So that was, I think kind of 

373
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,280
something that I just enjoy 
thinking about so much. 

374
00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,000
I love these little puzzles that
are some kind of throws out to 

375
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:18,200
us in the Torah and, and it's 
very, very practical to me 

376
00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:20,400
because. 
I found, and I think it's 

377
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:24,480
practical to everybody, humans 
have needs and we need things 

378
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,920
and we cannot achieve them by 
ourselves. 

379
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:31,440
We can't. 
So pretty much any large area of

380
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,040
need that you could think of are
not so making a living, health, 

381
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:41,960
relationships, children, any 
huge area which like the 

382
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,480
brothelus encompass war, all 
these things, peace. 

383
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,040
Humans are actually not in 
charge of anything. 

384
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,360
Like the classic example is, is 
a farmer, a farmer has to plant,

385
00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:55,680
but whether or not his plants 
are going to grow or her plants 

386
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,160
are going to grow is really, 
there's so many things that can 

387
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,040
go wrong, blight and the weather
and just so many things. 

388
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,760
I, I like to garden and, and I, 
I feel that like some years I 

389
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:06,880
get these, one of these tomato 
horn worms. 

390
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:08,760
They're like crazy things happen
in the garden. 

391
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:10,960
So you, you, you do it. 
And, but if you don't plant, you

392
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,320
get nothing. 
But if you do plant, it's not up

393
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,320
to you. 
So, so we have a situation where

394
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:21,400
we need things and so obviously 
we're going to ask Hashem for 

395
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,680
our needs. 
We're going to ask the one who 

396
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:29,480
can provide, but at the same 
time, why are we asking when 

397
00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:35,280
whatever his decision is, isn't 
that the best decision? 

398
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:39,800
What are we trying to do here? 
And can I really change anything

399
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,080
if Hashem is unchanging? 
That was the question that you 

400
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:44,560
asked me, if Hashem is 
unchanging. 

401
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,120
So one of the things that's very
important philosophically is 

402
00:21:48,120 --> 00:21:51,960
that we call Hashem Ocano. 
Hashem is ahad, so if Hashem is 

403
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,880
ekhad, that means that he's, 
he's 1, he doesn't have parts, 

404
00:21:56,120 --> 00:22:00,440
so he, so he's not going to be 
like if I beg him hard enough, 

405
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,560
he's going to feel compassion 
for me that he didn't feel a 

406
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:06,200
minute ago before I started 
begging. 

407
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,160
Hashem had that information 
before. 

408
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,080
He's not emotionally moved by 
me. 

409
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:11,800
He's not a human being. 
So what? 

410
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:13,960
What has changed in the 
situation? 

411
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,360
I'm not changing Hashem. 
So what's going on? 

412
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:24,280
So I think that like the the 
classic example that that is 

413
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,400
given is really from the Rambam.
I brought it in my book, the 

414
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,120
Rambam in the mourn of Uchem, 
which I I looked up this 

415
00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:34,040
morning. 
It's it's in Part 1, chapter 53.

416
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:38,520
So and it talks about Hashem is 
a fire, an example. 

417
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,040
It's a metaphor. 
It's not Hashem is not actually 

418
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:47,320
a fire, but and it said that how
can we have a concept where 

419
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:52,800
Hashem is unchanging and yet 
Artfila does something when 

420
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:54,760
Hashem doesn't change? 
That's the question. 

421
00:22:55,520 --> 00:23:00,920
So the answer is there, there 
are really 2 aspects to it. 

422
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,920
The first thing is, and I, and I
really go back to Moshe Ribenu 

423
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,040
on this and I, I've done a lot 
of thoughts like when, when 

424
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,640
Moshe Ribenu is asking Hashem to
not kill the Jewish people after

425
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,640
Haida ego, after the golden 
calf. 

426
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:20,360
So what has to change in order 
for Hashem to not destroy the 

427
00:23:20,360 --> 00:23:23,120
Jewish people? 
Like at that moment the Jewish 

428
00:23:23,120 --> 00:23:25,360
people sinned and they're going 
to be destroyed. 

429
00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:28,680
They deserve destruction. 
They did a Dollar Tree 40 days 

430
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,360
after they got the Torah. 
They're they're sliding for 

431
00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:34,000
destruction. 
So Hashem tells Moshe, leave me 

432
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:35,280
alone. 
That's Moshe's hint. 

433
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,120
You could maybe make a change 
here. 

434
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:39,600
What is happening here? 
What is going on? 

435
00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:41,960
The people are not doing chuva 
yet. 

436
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,680
The people have not done Chua. 
Moshe somehow makes a change in 

437
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:52,800
the in the situation before he 
ends up getting the people to do

438
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,640
tuba because we know after that 
he goes down and he smashes the 

439
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,040
Lucos. 
But but he's having this 40 days

440
00:23:58,040 --> 00:23:59,240
before. 
What's he doing? 

441
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,360
So the answer is Hashem is not 
changing. 

442
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,320
Hashem is not changing in this 
whole situation. 

443
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:09,720
So you look like you're thinking
you want to share some? 

444
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,040
Thoughts. 
I mean, yeah, no, I'm thinking 

445
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:13,400
about it. 
Are you trying to say that 

446
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:14,680
Moshe? 
I'm. 

447
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,120
I'm just, I, I don't, I don't 
know the answer in advance for 

448
00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:20,920
the I'm just trying to, I'm, I'm
kind of going with it as you're 

449
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:25,040
going. 
So Hashem is not changing, but 

450
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:31,080
perhaps Moshe is thinking of 
ways that he will improve the 

451
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:36,720
people by creating that reality 
of of him having an approach to 

452
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,840
improving the people, The 
people, the the reality around 

453
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,240
the people might change. 
And I, I would give, I would 

454
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:47,680
give my, my answer as the, the 
previous situation in the Torah,

455
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:49,760
because we see obviously the 
same words being used like 

456
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,440
corruption. 
We see that in the story of 

457
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,040
Noah. 
And Hashem is basically saying, 

458
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,600
I'm going to start all over 
again with one person. 

459
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:02,240
And Noah is just content, right?
He's not trying to do anything. 

460
00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:05,720
But I think he wants to see what
kind of leader this is. 

461
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,160
And this is a leader that's 
willing, McCain and I is willing

462
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:13,400
to to like erase himself. 
So he, Moshe, Moshe is is 

463
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:17,960
basically like correcting, you 
know, what leadership should be.

464
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,320
And he's saying I'm not going to
basically he's saying I'm not 

465
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,960
going to let them fall. 
So like, you have to give them a

466
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,720
chance. 
Yeah, I like both of those 

467
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,920
answers and both of them really 
fit into this paradigm that 

468
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,280
we're talking about, both of 
them that Hashem is not 

469
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,760
changing, but Moshe is, is 
changing or figuring out the 

470
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:42,520
situation so that the situation 
is not the same as it was when 

471
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,360
Hashem brings to the issue. 
When Hashem brings to most of 

472
00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:46,800
the issue, the people need 
destruction. 

473
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:52,080
Moshe has the ability to make a 
new situation and as a leader as

474
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,520
his understanding and he spends 
the next to prakim really 

475
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,400
negotiating and negotiating with
Hashem and and changing and 

476
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,320
molding on this level of hash. 
We want this amount, we want 

477
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:02,800
this type. 
I need more information. 

478
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,360
Give me the Gimmel Mitos like 
everything that he's doing is to

479
00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:09,920
help him lead the people, his 
own understanding of Hashem and 

480
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:14,040
how Hashem interacts with the 
people and it's lessons for us, 

481
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,280
you know, for forever. 
But this is all based on Moshe 

482
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:22,600
making a change. 
And that's really what you find 

483
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:24,960
is the most amazing thing. 
So that's what I was saying 

484
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,640
this, this, this metaphor of the
fire, that the fire doesn't 

485
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,160
change, but depending on what 
you put into the fire, different

486
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,760
metals go into the fire and, and
there are different things like 

487
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,840
I always like to use, you know, 
marshmallows versus wood because

488
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:39,920
I like, I like roasting 
marshmallows. 

489
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,840
But I think in, in chemistry, if
you ever took a chemistry class,

490
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,200
there's a lot of different 
depending on the elements that 

491
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,040
you put into the fire. 
Some make a purple flame, some 

492
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,440
make a green flame, some make a 
blue flame, some make sparks, 

493
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,360
some things turn to coal, some 
things melt something smoke. 

494
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,080
So what you put the fire is just
the fire. 

495
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,880
Fire is just fire. 
But what you put into the fire, 

496
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:08,520
you get out something different.
So in that sense, Hashem is 

497
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,560
unchanging. 
But what we are putting into the

498
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,280
situation we are getting, we are
changing. 

499
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,440
The situation changes as a 
result of that, what we put in. 

500
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,120
And that's what I call, I fed 
some my understanding of the pus

501
00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:25,560
that karov Hashem lokhol, karov 
lokhola, Sherry, krugubbeness. 

502
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,200
If you call out to Hashem in 
truth, then Hashem is close. 

503
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,760
Now what does that mean close? 
Does that mean necessarily that 

504
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:34,840
you're going to get the answer 
that you want? 

505
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:39,080
Not necessarily, but part of 
what we're doing with tefila. 

506
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,360
So we need things and we ask 
Hashem for things. 

507
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:47,560
But it's almost an irony of 
Tefila that the actual goal, if 

508
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,760
you approach feel a certain way,
the goal is not actually to get 

509
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:52,680
your needs met. 
That's a nice side effect if 

510
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,080
that works, and that's good. 
And it's a tool. 

511
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:57,360
It's a tool. 
It's a tool. 

512
00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,560
Yeah. 
But your main goal, your main 

513
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,600
goal is that you have a broader 
perspective, a greater 

514
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,800
understanding that your, your, 
your soul is improved. 

515
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,560
Your understanding is improved 
that that you are different now 

516
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,400
and that you have created a 
different reality and a way of 

517
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:20,520
being in the world that's closer
to to understanding how how how 

518
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,360
things work and how Hashem what 
Hashem wants in the world. 

519
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,560
So to your point, the word lahit
palel, if I'm not mistaken as a 

520
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,400
reflexive verb, reflects a verb,
so it's actually something that 

521
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,960
you're doing unto yourself, 
grammatically speaking. 

522
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,920
To evaluate yourself to. 
Evaluate yourself dramatically 

523
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:42,520
speaking, yes, so so so based on
what you're saying, what prayer 

524
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:49,360
is is we're trying to broaden 
our awareness of the divine and 

525
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:54,080
that like confrontation that we 
elevate ourselves into is 

526
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:59,200
supposed to affect us, change 
us, make us evaluate ourselves, 

527
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,200
change ourselves, improve 
ourselves. 

528
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:07,520
It's, it's, it's, it's not, it's
not a direct dialogue as much as

529
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:13,520
it's broadening your own 
horizons of the divine of 

530
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,440
Hashem. 
And thereby now you are 

531
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,000
affecting a change. 
You shouldn't be affecting a 

532
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,000
change in the. 
Changing the relationship by 

533
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:22,600
changing. 
Changing the relationship. 

534
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:24,240
And by that, things actually 
change. 

535
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,480
The story changes, Reality 
changes. 

536
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,440
Everything changes. 
Yeah, I mean, I, I kind of, 

537
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,080
before I taught high school, I 
taught preschool for a number of

538
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:33,160
years. 
And I don't know if this is the 

539
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,560
best example, but it's kind of 
the example that I started this 

540
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:37,840
with. 
And I always go back to it. 

541
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,080
I imagine like a kindergarten 
classroom, 'cause that's why I 

542
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,440
was a mower for a few years. 
And the kids, there's a lot of 

543
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,400
things on the shelves that you 
have, and we'll call those the 

544
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,960
laws of nature. 
And the kids can go and they can

545
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,560
play with the art and they can 
play with the cars and they can 

546
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,560
play with the blocks. 
And those are all the things 

547
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,480
that you see that you have 
access to. 

548
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,760
But there is actually a closet 
in the back. 

549
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,520
And if a child would go over to 
the mower and say mower, I have 

550
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:06,760
an idea and I want glitter. 
Now the glitter is not out. 

551
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,000
But if you want glitter and, and
you come over and you may code, 

552
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,080
you get all excited with the 
more to the more and you have a 

553
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,400
project that you want to do and 
you have this idea, then you can

554
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,480
go ask and the more will open 
the closet and take out the 

555
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,320
other things in the closet and 
give them to you. 

556
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:26,080
And I think that that prayer has
the opportunity to unlock 

557
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:32,120
certain aspects because we are a
partner with Hashem in creation.

558
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,880
And it's not enough. 
When I said I started off and I 

559
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,160
said, if, if the world's so 
perfect, if Valvesham's 

560
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,480
decisions are so perfect, then 
why, why are we davening? 

561
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,360
And I want to go back to the the
different. 

562
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,280
There are a few examples. 
There's no slow flat in the 

563
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,520
Torah. 
And there is Pesach Cheney in 

564
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:53,640
the Torah. 
And I feel like there's one more

565
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,400
example, but I can't remember it
offhand where, where if people 

566
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,440
were not were had an idea or 
they can Pesach Cheney when they

567
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:06,080
were when they were upset at you
know, Hashem said, if you 

568
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,920
ordinarily, if you're if you're 
Tommy, it's Pesa and it's for 

569
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,160
monopatrey. 
So OK, you don't do Corbin Pesa.

570
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,480
But these people are upset and 
they went over and they said, we

571
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,200
don't think it's fair. 
We don't think it's right. 

572
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,400
So Moshe asked Hashem and Hashem
said, you know what Pesach 

573
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,960
Shaney it came from? 
It almost was a response to, to 

574
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,920
if someone has an idea and the 
idea fits in and it's, and it's 

575
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,560
new and no one has thought about
it and you can, there's room, 

576
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,760
there's a whole closet back 
there and you have no idea what 

577
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,600
your potential is and what 
opportunities there are. 

578
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,000
If you go through life thinking 
about how you sort of have an 

579
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:47,680
eye out for what, what can I do?
What do I want? 

580
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,800
What does Hashem ask of me? 
What are the types of ideas that

581
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,000
I have and things that I need, 
things that I want, things that 

582
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,440
I think I can do to help the 
world, to help myself to, you 

583
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:01,560
know, there's just so much 
creativity that is possible, I 

584
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:02,600
think. 
I think that's another thing. 

585
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,800
I don't think people are 
sufficiently creative and 

586
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,960
dominating. 
People go, they say things three

587
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,440
times a day, they're bored, 
they're bored. 

588
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,240
And it's, it's almost a crazy 
thing to me to be bored because 

589
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,960
every morning now look, 
obviously some days and some 

590
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,360
years and some months, I have 
way more difficult things going 

591
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,720
on. 
And you know, if, if a day's 

592
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,200
ever something where I don't 
have a, a specific need, then 

593
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,400
it's a great day, 'cause I get 
to have a gratitude dominating 

594
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,200
day where I just thank Hashem 
for all the things that I'm not 

595
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:33,960
worrying about right now. 
But in terms of when you have 

596
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,200
worries, there are so many 
different approaches to worries.

597
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,960
And when I think about all the I
think about the the different 

598
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,280
dominings that I did that that 
Hashem answered, and I think 

599
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,520
about the ones that the answer 
was no. 

600
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,600
And let's say there were certain
things that were going on, went 

601
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,680
on for months situations and, 
and the answer ultimately was 

602
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,720
no. 
But every day, yeah, you always 

603
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,120
address it slightly differently 
depending on your mood, 

604
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,520
depending on your strategy, 
depending on your, your heat 

605
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,920
parallel experience, your, your 
evaluation of yourself and what 

606
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,480
your choices are and what your 
options are and how you 

607
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,520
understand the problem. 
And as you develop over the 

608
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,880
course of months, how you 
understand the problem, how you 

609
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,200
understand yourself, how you 
understand whatever, like even 

610
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,320
like we were saying before, you 
know you're going to, if you 

611
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,440
find a new Doctor, you find a 
better doctor. 

612
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,520
So the tequila changes and it 
shifts. 

613
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,920
Let this doctor help me, help me
find the doctor. 

614
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,280
There are so many different, 
different ways of dominating for

615
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,000
the same thing. 
And if you look at yourself over

616
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,520
the course of dominating, for 
one thing, and the very, there's

617
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:38,600
so many different angles and how
so some of it I, I, I like a, a 

618
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:43,600
combination between planned and 
spontaneity, because I like to, 

619
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,280
you know, I, I, you want to be, 
you want to be respectful. 

620
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,160
You're going before Aveeno 
volcano is, is you want to be 

621
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:50,760
respectful. 
You're going before the king and

622
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,520
you want to have it planned out 
and you want to, you want to be.

623
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:58,280
I, I thought about this and I'm 
respectful, but there is a 

624
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:03,240
certain amount of you don't. 
It's always very, very ironic to

625
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:04,560
me. 
Hashem knows everything's going 

626
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,880
to come out of my mouth. 
I'm always very aware of that, 

627
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:08,679
but I don't know what's going to
come out of my mouth. 

628
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,400
I'm not so self aware of myself 
as Hashem is aware of me. 

629
00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:16,080
So the actual act of dominating 
and saying things. 

630
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,719
So I could plan, I could plan 
that I'm going to have Fela. 

631
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,360
I could even write it out. 
I could have general approach 

632
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,960
of, of certain things that I'm 
going to put into shmakolenu or 

633
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:26,880
in whatever paragraph it fits 
into. 

634
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,440
But sometimes the things that 
come out of my mouth that are 

635
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,920
very surprising, you have to, 
you have to open your heart. 

636
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,239
You have to open your heart and 
you have to, you have to really 

637
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:39,040
ask, you have to beg, you have 
to, you have to be vulnerable. 

638
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,480
And, and it's funny because 
you're being vulnerable to the 

639
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,639
one who already knows. 
You almost have to be vulnerable

640
00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:46,920
to yourself. 
You have to let yourself know 

641
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,760
what's going on. 
And then after that, after you 

642
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,920
asked Hashem for help, like 
let's take a very basic example.

643
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,400
When I had toddlers or young 
children and I was losing my 

644
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,560
temper and I, I wanted help. 
Just, I don't want to, I don't 

645
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,960
want to destroy my child. 
I want to, I want to be nice. 

646
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,800
So, you know, 5-6 o'clock in the
evening, you're tired, you want 

647
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,320
to be nice to your children. 
So I'd ask Hashem for help. 

648
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,160
I want to be nice to my 
children. 

649
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:10,920
I don't want to, I don't want to
get too frazzled. 

650
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,080
So just ask them for something 
like that. 

651
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,760
And there's different approaches
and different, different ways 

652
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:18,800
that I'm taking different things
that I need help with. 

653
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:23,680
And then once you dive in that 
in the morning, it's almost, it 

654
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,040
becomes much harder just using 
the laws of nature. 

655
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:28,720
Let's even say Hashem, I don't 
know. 

656
00:35:28,720 --> 00:35:30,240
Hashem answers me, Hashem 
doesn't answer me. 

657
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,560
But once I asked Hashem for 
that, I have a different 

658
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:35,640
perspective. 
The whole rest of the day I'm 

659
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:37,840
walking through, I asked that of
Hashem. 

660
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:43,240
So I have to do my part in this.
I have to do my efforts and try 

661
00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:46,200
my stuff if I'm asking Hashem 
for help with my stuff. 

662
00:35:46,720 --> 00:35:50,800
So, so it sort of helps you with
your own hissalas and your own 

663
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,200
efforts because you, you made 
the ask. 

664
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,400
So there's just so many things 
going on with Avani. 

665
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:57,480
Yeah. 
So I think like, like the 

666
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,640
traditionalists will have a hard
time with the creativity 

667
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:05,080
because, you know, Hazal 
formulated the prayers so that 

668
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,440
maybe we don't go outside the 
lines. 

669
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,840
We don't, you know, we, we stick
to kind of the script. 

670
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,800
So other maybe people feel a 
little bit insecure about how do

671
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:16,480
I, I want to say my own word 
session. 

672
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:18,240
What do I do? 
How do I pray? 

673
00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:20,920
I think that's something that 
some people may struggle with as

674
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,960
well. 
But I love what you said about, 

675
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,240
about, you know, this 
partnership that we have with 

676
00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:32,080
Hashem, this covenant, because 
it reminds me of this agadah of,

677
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:38,040
of Rabbi Akiva with the Roman 
soldier who basically says to 

678
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,320
him, he, he wants to trap him in
a philosophical challenge. 

679
00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:46,600
And he tells him about the, you 
know, he, he says like whose 

680
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,000
creation is greater man's or 
gods? 

681
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,480
And he's ready for him to say 
God's creation. 

682
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,960
But he actually surprises him 
and he says men's, he says, how 

683
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:58,520
can you say that? 
Because he's like, I was going 

684
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:02,640
to say that if, if God's 
creation is better and in a 

685
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:04,920
higher level, then why do you do
obit Milah? 

686
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:06,280
Why do you do circumcision 
right? 

687
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,560
If God's creation is perfect, 
why do you add, Why do you 

688
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:11,840
basically mess with the 
creation? 

689
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,360
And Rebbe Akiva explained, he 
says that, you know, this is, 

690
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,320
this is exactly what our 
tradition is, is that we, we 

691
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,680
Hashem gave us basically, like 
you mentioned, the farmer, he 

692
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,120
gave us the opportunity to 
elevate the creation, which is 

693
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:30,800
why when we, we say hagephen on,
on wine, which we take from 

694
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,760
grapes, which are natural, came 
from the earth, but we elevated 

695
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:35,080
and it became a higher level, 
right. 

696
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,920
So this idea of us being 
partners in creation is really 

697
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,560
to me is such an amazing thing 
because it, it really goes with 

698
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,200
everything that you're saying. 
It's that we have the 

699
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:51,440
opportunity to change our 
destiny through our own efforts.

700
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,040
We don't, we, we don't wait for 
miracles. 

701
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,440
We, we make it happen and we try
our best. 

702
00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:00,800
And sometimes the answer is no. 
And I think that the beauty of 

703
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,640
what you explained is that when 
the answer is no, if you've 

704
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,720
every single day prayed and try 
different ways and try to, you 

705
00:38:08,720 --> 00:38:12,960
know, re evaluate yourself, then
when you finally get that no and

706
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,840
you see that there's no, there's
no way out of this, you can kind

707
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,040
of cope a lot better because, 
you know, you did your best, you

708
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,720
tried every angle and you've, 
you've meditated on it and 

709
00:38:21,720 --> 00:38:24,400
you've understood that, OK, it's
this is the answer. 

710
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,680
So I think that what you're 
saying is very powerful. 

711
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,320
Yeah, thank you. 
I do want to just say I think 

712
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:32,880
it's in the Shilkhana. 
I would have looked it up in 

713
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,600
advance and I known that this 
was going to be a topic of of 

714
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,200
dissension. 
But the Hawaha I think is pretty

715
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:41,880
clear that you are permitted to 
say things in Shmakolenu. 

716
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,080
And there's other aspects that 
that say that you are even 

717
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,680
permitted to say things 
obviously in Rifa Enu and really

718
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,840
in any. 
I once went to a shir and I had 

719
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,680
I knew about the Rifa Enu and I 
knew about the Shmakolenu but 

720
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,160
the shir that I heard and I and 
I think it's also from the 

721
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:58,880
Shilkhana but I would have to 
look up the sources. 

722
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:04,960
I hate to say anything without a
source, but I think that in in 

723
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,920
go elenu is where you had to 
have ask for emotional help with

724
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,200
things. 
Obviously in Baref elenu is 

725
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,960
where you ask for pranasa help. 
Encompasses everything. 

726
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:20,080
In every, in every category, if 
you have a particular struggle 

727
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:24,120
in that area, then there is a 
spot in there before you do the 

728
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:28,240
key Cal Shamaya, whatever key 
Cal whatever, do whatever before

729
00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:33,000
you do the because you you add 
in your personal request. 

730
00:39:33,240 --> 00:39:37,240
And so I think that makes Tila 
very, very creative because you 

731
00:39:37,240 --> 00:39:40,880
have to everyday make this 
evaluation before you start 

732
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,000
DOBing. 
What are the struggles that I'm 

733
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,960
having with at the moment and 
how do I want to approach Hashem

734
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:51,080
about these struggles? 
So that's that's you're planning

735
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,520
your strategy. 
And the Gamar itself, I think 

736
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,400
the the Khasidim ushonim used to
used to meditate an hour before 

737
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,680
prayer. 
No, Yeah, sort of what you're 

738
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:00,800
saying. 
Kind. 

739
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,880
Of strategize the yeah, Yep, 
Yep, OK. 

740
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:06,600
So this is going to lead into 
the next half because Speaking 

741
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:10,800
of spontaneous prayer, obviously
we have the famous case of Hana 

742
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:15,120
and her her prayer being like 
shocking, like almost like, what

743
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:16,320
is this? 
Who what is she doing? 

744
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:21,320
And you know, so we have in in 
your book you discuss Leia and 

745
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:26,520
Rafael, their sibling rivalry 
and Hana's prayers and emotions 

746
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,200
seem to play a very critical 
role in fertility. 

747
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,080
So what are these stories in 
particular reveal about the 

748
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,040
connection between emotions, 
prayer and transformation? 

749
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,320
And how can couples struggling 
with infertility apply these 

750
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,920
lessons? 
I think the first thing that was

751
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,440
most probably inspiring to me 
was that the reason why the 

752
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:49,920
stories of the matriarch says 
there is that because they're 

753
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,160
really not doing this for 
personal reasons. 

754
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,400
And when we start, when we have 
a need from Hashem, usually it 

755
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,760
starts off very personal and 
very it's just what I want. 

756
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,280
And we're going in Tila from a 
situation of what I want to try 

757
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:07,040
to understand a broader picture 
here and to try to see how I fit

758
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,080
into the broader picture. 
Like I have once and I want to 

759
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,040
have a child. 
I want children because I have a

760
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,520
maternal instinct. 
But what what Rachel and Leah 

761
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,640
were doing, what Rachel was 
doing was she wanted to be part 

762
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,520
of Koi style. 
She wanted to make make the 

763
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:26,320
nation and even Hana also when 
she the thing that sort of sent 

764
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:30,320
it to the next level was her 
saying, I will, I will donate 

765
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,280
this child. 
This child is going to be 

766
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:33,960
Shmuel. 
This child is going to be the 

767
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:37,720
Nuvi who helps, who goes around 
and and is the judge for 

768
00:41:37,720 --> 00:41:39,920
everybody. 
She she wanted to make a 

769
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:41,680
contribution to the Jewish 
people. 

770
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,040
So so when I think about when I 
was thinking about this whole 

771
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,920
thing, obviously like I'm not, I
wasn't trying to have children 

772
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:53,400
hoping that they're going to be 
great. 

773
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,720
Sadiqam, you know, as if you're 
trying to raise children, hoping

774
00:41:56,720 --> 00:41:59,440
that they'll be from on a basic 
level is its own challenge. 

775
00:41:59,720 --> 00:42:06,080
But I think that for me 
realizing that I'm not just an 

776
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,040
individual who just wants things
to go the way I want, but I'm 

777
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,440
really, and I think being part 
of the Jewish community like 

778
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,160
there is there is a big, I 
wouldn't call it a pressure to 

779
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:16,240
have children, but it's a big 
part of the culture. 

780
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,520
And I think one of the reasons 
it's a big part of the culture, 

781
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,280
and we were just talking about 
this, it's a big part of the 

782
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:25,240
culture because we believe that 
the Torah has something 

783
00:42:25,240 --> 00:42:27,640
beautiful and valuable to share 
with the world. 

784
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:32,360
And that being the Jewish nation
and being an oar lagoon, being a

785
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:37,360
community that shares ideas of 
wisdom of ethics and morals and 

786
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:42,320
truth to the world is, is a gift
that that we want to participate

787
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,160
in. 
And we want to pass on that 

788
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,240
system from generation to 
generation. 

789
00:42:46,240 --> 00:42:49,200
And, and, and again, make be 
partners with Hashem. 

790
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:51,920
He made us the nation. 
We want to teach our children. 

791
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,360
We want to have children. 
We want to pass that on and pass

792
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,000
that on either whether you have 
your own children or whether you

793
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,840
you teach or whether you just 
are a Jew who's keeping the 

794
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:04,840
Torah, any of those types of 
ways that that we're trying to, 

795
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:08,080
to do that. 
So to get out of my personal 

796
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:13,240
situation and desires and to 
look at myself as part of a 

797
00:43:13,240 --> 00:43:17,280
larger community, part of 
humanity, part of what what is, 

798
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,360
what does it mean to be a human 
being? 

799
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,920
That is really what I was 
looking at what they were doing.

800
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:27,320
And, and that gave me sort of a 
direction in my own Fila. 

801
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:34,680
And in terms of the emotional 
piece, I think, I think with 

802
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:38,440
Moshe Rabenu, I would say he's 
more like the, the strategic 

803
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,600
approach that he's always 
arguing with Hashem. 

804
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,680
But I found with Hannah, I think
that was really that I, I wrote 

805
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:48,680
about that, that that really 
puzzled me and my child that I 

806
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:51,400
was when I ended up after the, 
the culmination of my 

807
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,600
exploration of the, of the 
couple of years of infertility 

808
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,880
that I was going through, my, my
daughter ended up being named 

809
00:43:57,880 --> 00:43:59,760
for Hannah. 
And if it was a boy, I would 

810
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:03,120
have named Shmuel, whatever. 
But so because of it was Rosh 

811
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:05,640
Hashanah. 
It was Rosh Hashanah and I had 

812
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,560
just, I wouldn't say failed the 
cycle. 

813
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:09,760
I think I wrote about it in the 
book. 

814
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:15,360
I, I had done a cycle and the 
doctor said he was so confident 

815
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:19,080
that for sure I was going to get
pregnant and I got pregnant and 

816
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:22,280
I miscarried it immediately. 
It was like within, within a day

817
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,600
it was I, I had a positive test 
and, and bleeding already. 

818
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:30,760
So when I went in and they said 
to me, do you want to, do you 

819
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:33,480
want to just go on birth control
or so you can start the next 

820
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,080
cycle very quickly. 
And, and with my husband and I 

821
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:38,680
looked at each other like, all 
right, let's just, let's just 

822
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:41,080
take a beat because this is 
very, it's hard on the body. 

823
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:42,960
It's hard emotionally. 
So then it was Rosh Hashanah 

824
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:47,400
time. 
And I think so Rosh Hashanah, 

825
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:51,920
I'm sitting in shul and I'm 
reading of Torah Khanna and I'm 

826
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,720
reading about her domining and 
I'm looking at it. 

827
00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:58,240
Of course, I'm, I'm so I, I call
it, you know, I'm like selfish 

828
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,320
and I see something in Torah. 
I'm like, great, how can I use 

829
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:01,480
this? 
What is this going to teach me? 

830
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:05,080
How can I, how can I get this? 
And again, I, I advocate, you 

831
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:06,400
know, be selfish with your 
Torah. 

832
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,600
You, you want, you want the 
Torah is there to give you 

833
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,520
information and to give you 
wisdom and to give you insight. 

834
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,840
So if you have a need and you 
don't understand something and, 

835
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:17,200
and there's a story in the 
Torah. 

836
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,080
So you, yeah, I grab that and 
get on to that and try to learn 

837
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,200
it and see if anyone can teach 
you about it, if you can learn 

838
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:23,560
it yourself. 
What's going on? 

839
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:24,960
What is this? 
What does this story have to 

840
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,560
teach me? 
So of course, I started reading 

841
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,160
it on Rosh Hashanah and I was, I
was really, really immersed in 

842
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:31,840
the story. 
What did Hannah do? 

843
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:35,240
How did she end up achieving 
what she what she did? 

844
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:39,800
How did what she, how did her TE
feel like get the child? 

845
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:45,480
And of course, then I went into 
the Gaza about that and the 

846
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:47,440
Madras. 
There's so much great stuff like

847
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,360
there's, it says Hashem Sakos. 
One of the things that I love 

848
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:53,920
also, I know this is this, this 
you can't have much creativity. 

849
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:57,840
And, and, and I, if I ever do 
write my book on Tila and 

850
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,360
Tanakh, which I hope to do, I 
hope like to look back in five 

851
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,960
years and say I wrote this book 
after talking to you guys. 

852
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,880
I, I wrote the book. 
So one of the things that I want

853
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,840
to look at in Tila and Tanakh is
the Shah. 

854
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:12,680
So every Tila has Shiva, Bakasha
and Odaiya that has the, the 

855
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:17,440
praise of Hashem, the, the 
actual request and the, and the 

856
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:22,840
thanks after the, the praise 
that is chosen in Tanakh is 

857
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:27,640
very, very specific to the 
request that you're making. 

858
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:29,840
And we do not have that 
creativity because we have our 

859
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:33,000
set office set up for us by 
Khazal in, in the first 3 

860
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:35,520
Brahos. 
And but it's very, it probably 

861
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:39,160
encompasses all of it, but I 
just find it so fascinating, 

862
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:43,320
like Kel Narafan Allah. 
So Kel is the praise there in 

863
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,480
Korath. 
It's Hashem El OK ruhos. 

864
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:52,280
So the Hashem who who knows who 
knows everything, you know, how 

865
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:56,200
could you, how could you kill 
everyone for Korra's mistake? 

866
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,240
So Hashem LLK ruhas like, you 
know, you know, you know what 

867
00:46:59,240 --> 00:47:01,560
everyone is thinking. 
So that's the praise. 

868
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:03,680
The praise itself is part of the
argument. 

869
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,960
It's brilliant. 
But now what was I going with 

870
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:07,360
this? 
Oh, yeah. 

871
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:13,000
So and then Hana Hashem swapos 
so Hashem spakos has so many 

872
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:16,240
midrashem about it. 
There are so many arguments that

873
00:47:16,240 --> 00:47:19,760
she makes with Hashem Spakos 
that was so fascinating to me 

874
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:24,200
and her and she has sarcasm and 
she has anger and and then of 

875
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:28,640
course the final crazy thing and
is that she threatens Hashem and

876
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:31,800
she threatens to become a sota 
and and I remember thinking. 

877
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:35,240
That. 
OK, so the approach that the 

878
00:47:35,240 --> 00:47:38,320
Torah is telling me is that if 
Hashem doesn't give me what I 

879
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,720
want, I should threaten to break
the Torah. 

880
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:45,080
OK, I'm like, how, how does it, 
what am I doing here? 

881
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:48,000
What is this? 
How can I use this, you know, in

882
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:50,920
a practical way without, am I 
supposed to be a Soto? 

883
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:52,680
Like that's not so practical 
nowadays. 

884
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:55,320
And like, what, what can I do? 
What is this trying to do? 

885
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,040
And I don't know that I 
personally came up with the 

886
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:01,800
answer, but I think what's so 
fascinating about it's, it's 

887
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:05,640
sort of a like a dialogue with, 
with yourself, with the Torah, 

888
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,040
with your learning. 
And, and I'm like, what am I, 

889
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,520
what am I trying to gain here? 
What am I understanding from 

890
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:13,360
this? 
And at the time, and you asked 

891
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:17,480
me, where is emotion in this? 
And I to me at that, at that 

892
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:22,440
moment in time, it seemed to me 
that Hannah was really throwing 

893
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:27,160
all of her rage and her anger 
and her bitterness because 

894
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:34,280
that's she said, honey, So she's
very bitter and, and to just 

895
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:39,800
stand before Hashem and express 
her sadness, her grief, her 

896
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:44,440
bitterness, her anger. 
And it seemed to me that I don't

897
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:47,160
know if she was actually 
planning to threaten Hashem. 

898
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,680
I mean, strategically, it's a 
very neat thing to do. 

899
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:52,440
It's very interesting. 
And again, we talked about the 

900
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,640
chutzpah that you have that, 
that, that Hashem, you know, 

901
00:48:55,640 --> 00:49:00,000
the, the Torah always promotes a
certain type of a chutzpah with,

902
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,520
with, you know, respect, but 
chutzpah. 

903
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:08,000
So it's both and, and, and Hanna
seemed to be saying, I just felt

904
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:12,440
like if I were trying to model a
Tfila and I was planning to 

905
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:17,520
actually engage in Tfila in a 
very calculated and planned 

906
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:20,120
manner. 
But it seemed to me that the 

907
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:26,000
Hanna approach is the plan 
should be that you go homemade 

908
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:27,840
with Hashem, you stand before 
Hashem. 

909
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:30,120
And when I say Hashem, it's like
knowing that Hashem knows 

910
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:32,360
everything about me, knowing 
that Hashem knows everything, 

911
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:33,760
knowing that Hashem is 
unchanging. 

912
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:38,520
And to stand before Hashem and 
to really open myself up 

913
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:43,800
vulnerably and to express the 
pain that I'm in and hope that 

914
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:49,520
that experience of, of realizing
that I am helpless in this 

915
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:54,080
situation, that I cannot do it, 
that I need the salvation to 

916
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:55,680
come from something that is not 
me. 

917
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:58,600
I am a human and I'm limited. 
That I hope that having that 

918
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:03,680
experience would change me and. 
It's a humbling experience. 

919
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:07,680
Yeah, and it's not enough to 
think about it to do it to. 

920
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:12,960
Yeah, and you, you also, you 
also let go in a way when you, 

921
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:16,720
when you have all that pressure 
on your shoulders and then you 

922
00:50:16,720 --> 00:50:18,920
finally just say, you know what,
it's not, I can't do anything 

923
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:21,000
about it. 
God, this is, this is on you at 

924
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:23,040
this point. 
Like, and that's actually 

925
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,640
happened to me before one of my,
it's a private situation, but at

926
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:29,760
one point in my life where I, I 
really cried out to Hashem and I

927
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:33,520
had a moment of like just under 
my pillow, under my blankets 

928
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:37,520
and, and whatever I, I needed 
that, like whatever I needed 

929
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:39,680
that day or the next day, it 
happened. 

930
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:44,080
It was an amazing experience. 
But the, the point is that that 

931
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:48,520
like, I at that point decided 
that I have no, I have 0 

932
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:50,040
control. 
This is all in your hands. 

933
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:53,240
And I felt so just from saying 
that and feeling that, I felt so

934
00:50:53,240 --> 00:50:56,200
much relief. 
Like, so even if it, the answer 

935
00:50:56,200 --> 00:51:00,400
was going to be no, I, I was 
content with whatever was going 

936
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:01,720
to happen because I, I let go of
it. 

937
00:51:01,720 --> 00:51:06,040
And I think that the emotion of 
it is like, you know, you're 

938
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:09,320
putting your burden on God 
versus holding on to yourself. 

939
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:12,160
Yeah. 
So I think that is a very 

940
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:14,520
emotional experience. 
And I think it's, I think it's 

941
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:17,120
strategic, I think it is 
rational, but I think it is an 

942
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:21,040
extremely emotional experience. 
Stila is an extremely emotional 

943
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:23,200
experience. 
For sure. 

944
00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:28,800
Beautiful. 
So you explore divine 

945
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:32,480
intervention and the idea that 
individuals can work on 

946
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:34,920
themselves to alter their quote 
UN quote, fate. 

947
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,560
While we don't believe in fate 
or mazal in a deterministic 

948
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:42,520
sense, how does a Torah view 
Providence and what practical 

949
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,600
steps can someone take to bring 
about change? 

950
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:48,440
OK. 
So that I think is really the 

951
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:50,560
exploration that was really from
Sarah Imenu. 

952
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:53,400
That's Ula Ibana Mimena. 
That's where I learned that. 

953
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,920
And, and I think Rachel used the
same model, as I say, in my 

954
00:51:56,920 --> 00:52:00,080
book. 
So it's very interesting. 

955
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:04,760
I, I just am always very 
fascinated by how practical 

956
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:09,400
Judaism is and Torah is when it 
says ulai Banameena, when she, 

957
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:15,240
when she decides to give Hagar 
to Avram and Avram has this 

958
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:16,640
devoid that he's going to have a
child. 

959
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:20,040
And Sarah is postmenopausal. 
She's not going to have a child,

960
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:22,920
and there's no reason for her to
expect that she's going to have 

961
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:25,200
a child. 
And then Arun gets another 

962
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:26,920
navua, and Sarah says, you know 
what? 

963
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:28,600
That's it. 
We have to make this happen. 

964
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,120
We have to make this happen. 
And the way that we make this 

965
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:34,560
happen is that you have to use a
surrogate because I'm not having

966
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:37,760
a child. 
But then she says ulai, ibana 

967
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:40,560
mimena ulai, it's kind of an 
interesting. 

968
00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:43,800
It's like, why not ibana mimena?
I'm going to participate. 

969
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:47,760
I'm going to build cholesterol 
by, by participating by raising 

970
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:50,920
the child. 
But it this ulai that maybe I 

971
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,520
could build, I will be built up 
from this. 

972
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:58,760
And I'm trying to remember who 
says it, if this was Varnu or if

973
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:01,200
this is an idea. 
Khazal, I don't remember him, 

974
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:07,280
but the idea that that she 
thought that, yeah, I think it's

975
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:09,360
I think it's Farnu. 
He says it'll bring the Koach 

976
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:14,040
Aleppoel that giving a second 
wife, which is a very 

977
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:20,840
emotionally difficult experience
is going to force her into a 

978
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:26,840
certain either Chuva or a 
certain perspective or a certain

979
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:30,680
experience that is going to 
either make her work on her 

980
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,720
tequila more or just change her 
as a as a human being. 

981
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:39,480
And then maybe she will she will
be her merit will change. 

982
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:41,000
Maybe she will change her 
situation. 

983
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:46,440
So I learned from that that we 
really have an opportunity that 

984
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:50,200
there are situations, it seems 
that the Torah is telling us 

985
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:54,640
that if you are in a difficult 
situation, that working on 

986
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,280
yourself can possibly change 
your situation. 

987
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:00,920
You, I mean, I think that I 
think that's Fila and working on

988
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:02,480
yourself. 
They're kind of like twin paths 

989
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:06,360
that they're intertwined. 
So, so you could use one or 

990
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:09,800
both, or I like to use them 
together, obviously, but that 

991
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:12,360
it's really the same idea. 
We're back to the fire and what 

992
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:14,160
you're putting into the fire and
what you're getting out of the 

993
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:15,720
fire. 
So either you do that through 

994
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:19,760
Fila and that experience, or you
do it through chuva and you do 

995
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:22,520
that through working on yourself
in any of these types of a way. 

996
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:26,400
And what I love about Rachel, 
'cause that's where it really it

997
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:30,720
takes on the next level. 
Rachel was really 'cause she 

998
00:54:30,720 --> 00:54:33,520
says to Yaakov, you know, I want
you to dove in for me. 

999
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:37,720
And Yaakov says why I have 
children, which is like, whoa. 

1000
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:43,160
And so, but after that, after 
that, she decides she's going to

1001
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:45,800
use the Sarah model and she's 
going to use the surrogate. 

1002
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:50,720
And when she said done enough 
Tali, I love done enough Tali 

1003
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:54,760
because, and I mentioned this in
my book also that done is that 

1004
00:54:55,440 --> 00:55:00,080
Hashem Dhanani yelo Kim Haivani 
Dhanani yelo Kim Zahani that 

1005
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:03,600
Hashem judged me that I was not 
deserving children. 

1006
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:07,280
And then after I gave the 
surrogate, I got this child. 

1007
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:10,000
It's an, it's an adopted child. 
It's not her child biologically.

1008
00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:12,800
And then Hashem judged me 
favorably and I merited. 

1009
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:16,400
She did not get her Tefila 
answered that she herself will 

1010
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:19,640
have a biological child. 
She felt that Dunn was the 

1011
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:23,000
answer to her Tefila and it was 
a different route. 

1012
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:25,200
It was a different route. 
And that's the same thing with 

1013
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:27,720
Naftali. 
Naftali means Tila and it also 

1014
00:55:27,720 --> 00:55:31,440
means twists, twists and turns. 
And you have to try different 

1015
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:33,080
approaches. 
And she tried a different 

1016
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:34,640
approach. 
The approach of trying for a 

1017
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:37,000
biological child was not the 
answer. 

1018
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:38,240
Of course, she doesn't stop 
trying. 

1019
00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:42,960
She's she's got those, the 
other, those, those flowers, but

1020
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:44,840
she's still and she's still 
dominating. 

1021
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:49,280
But at the time, Don and Aftali 
are the answers to her Tefila, 

1022
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,960
which is that I'm, I'm trying 
different ways. 

1023
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:55,920
I'm trying different ways to get
things to, to, to merit it. 

1024
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:59,840
And she considers that to be the
answer to her prayers that that 

1025
00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:03,520
these sons she got to help 
participate in building Klaus 

1026
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:06,960
well, by by that route. 
And it's a different route and 

1027
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:10,000
she was creative about it and 
she was, and, and she was also 

1028
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,200
working with, you know, that 
difficulty fighting kind of with

1029
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:16,240
Leia about it and, and the 
competition spurring them on. 

1030
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:19,080
So there, there's a lot of 
emotional things going on there.

1031
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:22,680
But but really the goal is to 
work on yourself and to try 

1032
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:26,200
different things. 
Beautiful, beautiful. 

1033
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:28,560
Wow, this was so awesome and 
you're awesome. 

1034
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:33,240
We're we're so happy that you 
came on the podcast and we hope 

1035
00:56:33,240 --> 00:56:36,200
to have you on again one day 
when your next book comes out. 

1036
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:41,480
We're going to celebrate when 
that comes out and Benji have 

1037
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:43,760
anything. 
You know, I just wanted to tell 

1038
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:47,520
you to go back to the Hana, the 
Hana model that you gave before 

1039
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:51,880
with the, the, the, you know, 
letting it out that you were 

1040
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:56,120
talking about. 
There was an, an interview we 

1041
00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:58,680
did, I believe it was with Frank
Meek. 

1042
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:00,520
Is his name Benji? 
Was it Frank Meek? 

1043
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:03,320
Frank Mink. 
Yeah, Mink. 

1044
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:08,480
My apologies, Frank Mink, that I
would I would I never do this, 

1045
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:12,920
but I think if you listen to 
that podcast of ours, he had he 

1046
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:16,800
the whole story is crazy, but 
towards the end of the podcast, 

1047
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:19,600
he was a Jewish guy didn't know 
he was Jewish. 

1048
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:21,520
You know he was. 
He was. 

1049
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:27,800
A neo Nazi neo Nazi crazy story.
Found out he was Jewish, did 

1050
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:31,480
chuva right? 
But even after he did chuva he 

1051
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:35,440
had problems with alcohol. 
He had a lot of issues and he 

1052
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:38,600
was telling us how he was 
basically sitting in his car and

1053
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:40,440
he basically decided he's going 
to commit suicide. 

1054
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:46,240
He, he was having a mental 
breakdown where he was about to 

1055
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:50,360
like just say no more. 
He decided in that in those 

1056
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:53,400
moments that turn that mental 
breakdown into a prayer. 

1057
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:55,520
And I don't want to give it 
away. 

1058
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:58,640
Really listen to that if you 
have a few minutes, because I 

1059
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:01,480
think that you were just talking
about the Hannah model and how 

1060
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:04,880
she kind of, she kind of has a 
mental meaning, mental breakdown

1061
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:05,880
in her, in her. 
Approach. 

1062
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:07,800
And doesn't she pray? 
I mean, he totally thinks. 

1063
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:10,120
She's she's totally thinks she's
drunk and she's like, you know, 

1064
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:13,680
I'm becoming a soda. 
So I, I just, when you said 

1065
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:17,480
that, I, I remembered that, that
that bit with the Frank Mink 

1066
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:19,960
episode. 
And I think I think you would, 

1067
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:23,920
you would, you would be, you 
would really be pleasantly 

1068
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:26,160
surprised with how that 
eventually turned out in that 

1069
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:28,880
moment for him. 
Thank you so much for this 

1070
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:30,080
podcast. 
It was amazing. 

1071
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:34,840
Learned a lot and God willing, 
much success in the upcoming 

1072
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:38,600
books and we appreciate it been.
A pleasure. 

1073
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:41,480
Thank you all. 
Right. 

1074
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:42,360
Awesome. 
Thank you.