Welcome to Judaism Demystified, a podcast for the perplexed.
Join us as we explore some of the most fascinating Jewish and
Torah related topics with our esteemed guests.
By tackling some of the biggest questions you likely won't find
addressed elsewhere, we aim to shed light on important issues
and inspire a return to the fundamentals.
Enjoy the show. Thank you, Jaquan Faur for
joining us once again on the Judaism Demystified podcast.
This is your third appearance and I apologize for last time.
I didn't properly plug you. I wanted to tell everyone where
they can find you, which is on Turat and the Loose, which is on
YouTube. So that's how they can find you.
And is there anything else you would like to plug before we
start the podcast? No, that's Torah.
Tandelus on YouTube is where I teach Torah, and I have too many
Torah classes both in IBR and in English.
And on Instagram Rabbi ATV is where I have more political
content for those who like hearing about politics.
I try to keep it separate. All right, it's very good.
So in the previous podcast we spoke to you about Limo Torah
and how there's no mitzvah to learn Torah all day, nor is this
the point of the mitzvah. So with that being the case,
what exactly for audience? What exactly is the mitzvah of
Limu Torah and how are we to implement it in our daily lives?
So it's it's an interesting question that was actually
discussed in the Gemara. So there's a Gemara in my second
bed, I thought where Rabishi Mumbai and there will be Ishmael
to Great Naim. They each offer a different
perspective on the following question.
One has to work, we have to make a living.
We need to go out to the field, we need to plow the field.
We need to to see the field. We need to to to eventually
harvest the bounty. So will it be Shimomo?
Your high says no, that doesn't make sense.
So if we're always working in the field, when are we going to
study? We won't be able to study.
So he says one should study Tara all the time.
That's his opinion and that's what he did, by the way, with
his son Libia Azad. They were studying Tara all the
time in the Maada and he was in the opinion that that's what you
need to do. Now, before we even continue, I
want to tell you what the Bishop Montvanerhai does not say,
because many people bring the opinion of the Bishop
Montvanerhai as a suppose it's support for the Kole lifestyle,
where the Kole lifestyle says all I'm going to do is tell it
all the time, I'm not going to work.
And here you see the Bishim on Badyohai is the model for that.
So it's. They bring him as the ideal.
Exactly, he's the ideal,
correct? So I I just want to before we
even continue. The Bishim on Badyohai did not
receive a monthly stipend from anyone, nor does he suggest that
one should do so. Meaning the Bishop on your
highest point does not live off the public dole and, you know,
beg people for money and then, you know, come to from Israel to
New York on LL flights and, you know, try to collect money for
different synagogues and then go back to Israel and study.
That's incorrect. Meaning that is not what the
Bishop moment your high said. He never said that.
What the Gamala says is this is in the in massacre Shabbat in
Dafle Medima that a Bishop warned about your high was in
The Cave and a miracle of sorts happen.
He lived off a carrot tree and he ate carabs all day.
He drunk water. There was a well and that was
that. That's how we live, right?
So, so the notion I want to I want to make sure that everybody
understands we're not talking about the Kohler lifestyle.
The question that it be Shimon by your high addresses is should
one work or should one rely on miracles essentially or live a
life of poverty and rely on miracles and everything will be
fine. And he says no one should live a
love life of poverty or or he doesn't say that actually, but
he says essentially rely on a miracle, OK, a miracle happened
for him indeed. You know, he was happy.
He had the carrot tree and he was happy and he ate that and he
didn't need anything else And that was great.
The beach melon, The Gemara says no, he says no one has to work.
And if it's time to harvest the field, harvest the field.
And if it's time to see the field, see the field and do what
you need to do to make up on NASA and study Torah and combine
the two. Now, very interesting.
Usually the Gemara, it has many, many disputes, but it doesn't
always conduct an experiment for the purpose of resolving the
disputes. This is one of the interesting
cases in the Gemara where they say, you know what, we want to
do an experiment, let's do an experiment.
Let's see who's correct. And the Gemara says that I'm
going to read it for you. It's in Masehat Tera hota
lamidar amoud bed. And I'm just give me a moment
just to find it. Masehat Tera hot.
I'm on safari you now and I'm just going to, you know, would
it be OK if, would it make sense or would it be useful for me to
share? OK, so let me see if I can share
it. Give me a moment.
Share. OK.
I just just give you access to share so.
Thank you. And this is share.
OK, now I'm sharing now the mission I thought up, but that's
not what I want to share. I just switched.
Do you see the camera now or do you still see the mission I
thought up? No.
We see the camera. We see the camera.
OK, perfect. So look what it says.
It says I'm I'm pointing it Amar Abayez Abayez several
generations of course, after the B Ishmael and rabishim on Barrio
High and he says he was the Rosa Shiva from Bedita and he says as
follows are there as who could be Ishmael be Aleta be a then
get a bishim on Barrio High and many people did follow the model
of the Ishmael and it worked. Now when it says the Ali Tabi
Adam, what is it going to be Ali Tabi Adam?
It means the Torah they studied was a successful Torah and the
bishim on your hide, many people did what he did.
Now, when the bishim on by your hide did it, he was successful.
It worked. He had a special zahu.
I'm not sure what it was special.
I don't know. Knowledge, kedusha, whatever you
want to attribute it to. When the bishim on by your hide
did it himself, it worked. But when other people tried to
follow him as a model, it didn't work.
What does it mean it didn't work?
It means the Torah didn't work. Meaning when you have an
unlimited amount of time to study number one and #2 you have
no financial responsibilities and you think you're going to
fill it up and do nothing but study Torah all day.
It didn't work right now. Furthermore, Amalihura ABBA was
also the, he was a, he was a contemporary of Avaya, and he
was also the, the Roshi Shiva of Fumbedita.
And he says the following Bematuta Minaiku, please, I'm
asking you, do me a favor. Do me a favor.
The Omeni son of Yometti Shreye Latit Hazukamai.
I'm asking. He's talking to the Talmudim in
the yeshiva. Please don't appear in the
yeshiva in the month of Nissan. Don't appear in the yeshiva in
the month of Tishre Latif Hazakama.
Don't be in my presence. You're kicked out because during
these seasons agricultural work was very important.
And if you come to the yeshiva instead of working, you're going
to be the whole year. You're going to be worried about
panasa. I don't want to worry about
Padmasa. You can't study tada properly if
you're worried about Padmasa. So this is the third
consideration, meaning I spoke about consideration #1 when you
have all day to do nothing and all you have to do is study and
you have no financial responsibilities in terms of
work obligations. Not the ideal situation.
It doesn't stimulate the mind. But also the other consideration
is when a person lives in poverty, I can't study.
He has I have to pay the electric bill.
I have to pay the the rent. I have to buy food for my
children. So that's why Havas says I don't
want you coming to the yeshiva on the months that you have to
work because otherwise it would affect your partner.
NASA. I want you out of the Yeshiva,
right. And and finally, and I want to
read to you this statement. I'm not about Barbara Hannah,
I'm not about to be or Hannah. Be sure to be with other to be I
but would look how. Unfortunately the latter
generations are not meeting the standards set forth by the
earlier generations. How
the earlier generations, they made the Torah, the keva.
I'm going to explain what keva means in a moment.
Keva means something permanent. M lahtam adai.
Adai means something less permanent.
I will explain that. Zuba zuna time abedam.
They were successful at work. They were successful in Torah.
The latter generations, for them, the main thing in life was
the work. The main thing was work, the
Torah time adai. The secondary thing was Torah.
And they didn't succeed neither in work nor in nor intera.
So, so that's what that's what the Gemana says.
So the Gemana discusses this the, the matter.
And basically what you see here, I'm just going to do stop,
share, OK. What you see in that latter
discussion was everybody worked, right?
Meaning the dolota is surely worked.
The dolota I don't even work. The question is whether the work
is Keva and the malacha, the malacha, which is work, whether
the malacha is keva and the Torah is arai, or is it Torah
keva and the Melaka Arai. So my father, Alaba Shalom, he
explained to me, what does it mean that the work is keva and
the Torah is Arai or vice versa. So he said when you study Torah,
what's the main thing you want to accomplish that day?
You want to study Torah. That's the main thing.
Meaning you feel if, if, if, if, if there was Labor Day and you
didn't work, you don't say, Oh my gosh, what a waste of a day.
You don't say that, right? But if you didn't study Torah
that day, meaning usually you study Torah 2-3 hours and you
didn't study Torah, I said, Oh my gosh, I feel like I didn't do
what I'm supposed to do today. Meaning that the Torah is Keva.
If in your mind you're saying this is what I must do, there's
no way I'm not studying Torah today.
I am studying Torah today. Come hell or high water, I'm
studying Torah because if I don't study Torah, I had a waste
of a day. You don't say that at that work.
You're OK. I got a day off.
This is amazing. Let's go to the beach, right?
You understand? So that's what it means.
Keva versus versus Ally. I want to read to you.
And actually, I want to have a conversation with you.
Let me. Let me, let me talk to you about
this. I think there's a psychological
element here. The psychological element is
when a person has responsibilities, he needs to
think about what he's going to do to make a living.
He has children who he needs to feed, he has a wife, he has a
house, he has responsibilities. These responsibilities, they
help the individual mature, become serious and be more
focused. When a person has nothing to do
all day. And I remember I used to see
this, I used to go to the the the Kolel.
I used to study in the Kolel. I didn't get paid, but the
people around me did. It's OK.
I'm not in Godfred. I'm not criticizing the people I
studied with, but that's the way it was.
OK? So they they, they, they got
their monthly stipend and, and, and that's fine.
But I noticed I was between college and law school.
I had one year to study. OK, in that one year, I did what
usually takes four years. Not because I'm a genius,
because I'm brilliant. I knew I just have one year to
study, right? I better, really.
So I used to come into the place like they'd be kind of like
they'd be a tetna Emma newspaper or banana yogurt.
OK, well, they want to eat breakfast again.
I'm not saying this to to be disrespectful.
I'd come into the place and I'd literally be like focused on the
text because this is the time I have to study Torah and I knew
it and I finished a whole lot of Banu with all of the tests for
that are Banu that normally take four years.
I did it in one year. So I think the idea of working
and studying Torah is not only, it's that it's not a detriment,
it's not something I think it's a very good thing.
I think people who work and study Torah, they do better at
work and they do better with the Torah.
And that's what the Gemala said. That's what the Gemala says.
I want to finish just with reading with you, with your
permission when Adam Baum writes on the topic.
And then I will let you, I will let you ask any follow up
questions. So let's do share, OK.
And where is Adam Bam? Here it is.
I'm going to read it for you here.
I'm not coming. No, no.
Here it is. This is a hotel Mutura peregy
man, Alec Aleve Maala Gedola. He let me show me Panespi
Masiata. This is a great thing.
It's a tremendous maala. That's what he says and he
didn't make this up. This is from the guy we read the
game about our last week, I think, right.
And also the right, this is the, this is the real Hasid.
You want to know. You want to know what a Hasid
is. Hasid is a person who works
hard. And even though he works hard,
he also studies last week. So the idea that work is
something negative is anti Torah.
The Christians, they used to believe that that's true.
In Christianity, work was something negative because it
belonged to this world. So you had the you had the
monasteries and the people in the monasteries, they didn't
work. And but in Judaism, at least I'm
talking about, we're talking about Judaism here.
From the perspective of Judaism, work is a good thing.
There's nothing nicer than an honest and hard day of work.
And then at the end of the day of work, you, you, you, you, you
study Torah, or the beginning of the day or the middle of the day
whenever you call the AI team, make those permanent times for
Tammu Torah. That's how you make the misfah
of Tammu Torah it. Makes a lot of sense because
what work does for a person is that it gives them discipline.
That's in order to, in order to work properly, work correctly,
you have to have discipline and purpose in with your time, and
that carries over. When you're going to learn
Torah, that's exactly what's going to carry over and what's
going to make your learning Torah successful.
And also that allows you to apply, you know, the everything
you study with Torah, you you can apply it to, to, to work
vice versa, right? So it it really feeds off of
each other. The work brings the experience
of the Torah into action. Yeah.
Yeah, and by the way, we say in the Tefila every day in Ahava
Kalama Avatano, when we talk about Tamu Torah, Ishmor Lasso,
the Kayem is called the verte mutarate hava.
The goal of the Torah is to be able to implement the Torah in
our daily lives. Now, if a person who does
nothing but study and, and, and he doesn't go out into the, into
the world and he interacts with, interact with people and, and,
and, and contribute to the society by working or by doing
other things. So that person is missing out on
the ability to implement the Torah in his daily life.
So part of Talmud Torah is the study Torah so that you can
fulfill the Torah in the real world.
So when you go outside, you say, better hold, you see people,
you're kind with people, right? You try to bring some good to
the world. That's part of Talmud Torah,
right? So Talmud Torah is a foundation
for proper behavior. So, but you need to go out to
the world and interact in order to have that proper behavior.
When did this start? This whole the whole coal
mindset or implementation? When?
How did we get here? I don't know, but I know two
things. I know that in the days of Adam
Baum, there were some people who used to do that apparently
because he writes about it in a very, very he he's usually not
ferocious when he writes things. In this case, he's ferocious.
He says these people that they accept money to study Torah,
they're extinguishing Mekhabeim or Haddad literally
extinguishing the light of our law, right?
Meaning the Torah is brings light to the world and these
people, they extinguish life. He's really ferocious.
I've never seen Adam bomb almost, you know, maybe there's
other cases where he's so ferocious, but this?
Isn't because he have no share in the world to come also?
Yeah, I mean, he sent me a mere estimate to video, right?
Of course. Correct.
Now, I also think that, well, I
don't want to get into the details of this, but let's say
just as follows, I think there was some assimilation here.
My own opinion. I'm not going to support that
opinion other than to say that in Judaism, in the Gemara, we
didn't have it. And in the Middle Ages, when we
were exposed to Christian society, we did have it.
Can I prove it? No, I admit I can't prove it,
but that's my own. That's that's my own instinct.
But nevertheless, we are here now and we know what the Torah
expects of us and we know the Torah expects us to work.
And it's great if you can work and have a good job and make
good money and and bring blessing to your family through
your hard work. What a tremendous it is as a Jew
to do so. Absolutely.
Thank you for that. Thank you for that.
So this question is going to touch upon the major work of
your father. I love a Shalom horizontal
society. We're going to ask it in context
of the concept of of da Torah and Ghidulim, which has which
has pretty much become the norm in Haredi Judaism Today I'll
read the question. The influence of Haredi leaders
often hinges on the concepts of Ghidulim and Da Torah, the idea
that Torah scholars have the ultimate authority in all
matters, even beyond. Do you believe these concepts
are consistent with Torah values?
What are your thoughts on the role and interpretation of these
ideas within the Haredi community?
And if you could also tie this in with the with the major idea
and work of your father horizontal society, which is
really goes hand in hand with this question.
Yeah. Let me start with the first part
of the question. In Judaism, the ultimate source
of authority as a Jew, as Jews, we know that Musharra Benou was
the Shalia of Hakados, Peru. He was God's representative to
the Jewish people and he was the representative of the Jewish
people to God. And we know that God spoke the
Torah to Moshella Bennu. We know this not because
somebody told us. We know this not because we we
we made some sort of inductive or deductive reasoning.
We know this because when a kadosh who spoke to Moshella
Bennu, we experienced that speech right.
The pasuk says in the Anoki BA E lecha de AAB he anan BA Abu ish
maharam. This is the ultimate, ultimate
pasuk in defining the source of authority, says God to Musharra
Beno. I am now going to appear to you
in the thick fog or cloud. Of course, the Shakina doesn't
just appear. So there's there's an Anand,
right? The Ahmud Anani, the Bel Alam we
know other Nadeem have. There's a hoot where the Shakina
descended and it came in the form of an Anand because you
can't see the Shakina in that sense.
Why am I doing this by Abu Ishmael Ambedaberima?
I want the Jewish people to hear when I speak with you.
I want them to experience me speaking with you and, and, and
why they run the high because when they experience this, they
would have had a direct experience of God speaking to
Moshe and therefore they have no doubt, we have no doubt the
nation as a nation experience God speaking to Moshe Lebanon.
So the ultimate source of authority is Moshe.
Only Moshe and no one else but Moshe has the right to speak in
the name of God and say these are the tally yag Missvault.
These are the 613 Missvault. You may never subtract and you
may never add and you may never modify the Missvault as a
representative of God, meaning of God.
You can't say, oh, you know, until now we were praying once a
day. God told me that from now on we
have to be praying the rice today.
You can't do that. You cannot modify the Torah
because the Torah was given to Moshe Albanu.
We experience God speaking to Moshe Albanu and any the Oraital
law comes exclusively and solely from Moshe Albanu.
This is the foundation of all of Judaism.
So any authority other than Moscherabenu is a secondary
authority. What does that mean by secondary
authority? We mean as follows.
That one Moscherabenu gave us the oraital laws, right?
Hananbam refers to this as the Usul in Arabic uses the word
usul like the it's like you have a tree and the tree has it's the
the trunk, it's a stable. It never changes, but the trunk
has many branches. That's called the furrow.
The furrow is like the the, the offshoots of the tree.
So the the soul comes from Moshe Abedo.
That never changes. And nobody can give us another
soul. Nobody can come and say, you
know what? God spoke to me.
I had a dream. I'm an Avi.
An Angel spoke to me. We don't care, we don't get, I
mean, it's nice if somebody has a dream.
It's great. I have dreams all the time.
And I mean, I don't mean that facetiously.
I have dreams of Tala all the time.
As much as I love these dreams and I'm very enamored of myself
having these dreams, I, I recognize that this is not a
source of law, right? Meaning I'm not going to wake up
in the morning and tell my wife, honey, you have to pray four
times a day. I just saw that in the dream.
Well, it's, it's, it's meaningless from the perspective
of authority, of meaning, me becoming an authority as to what
the Torah says or doesn't say, my dreams, you know, my
intuition, my greatness or somebody else's dreams or
somebody else's greatness is not relevant to the question of
authority. So there was primaries.
Primary authority lies with Moshe Rodeno, secondary
authority that lies with the judicial and legislative body of
the Jewish people, which is known as the Sanhedrin or the
Bettina Gadol. We don't always have a sunny
dream of 71. That was in the Lishkatta Gazeet
in the Beta Mikdash. Later on the Beta Mikdash was
destroyed, so we had a Bettina Gadol.
And this authority is a secondary authority.
It is created by the Torah in Parachatra Petim, explicitly not
assuming. So they have authority, but that
authority derives from the 613 Mesotha Musharraf.
Then who gave us, right? So nobody reaches the level of
Moshe Raven. Now, if the Sun Hadrian or the
Bettina Gadol makes a pesa calaja, they can make a gezera,
a decree, a takana. They can make minhag.
They can. There's many things that Bettina
Gadol can do. Of course, they cannot undo
anything that Moshe Raven gave us.
But, but, but in the furu, in the branches, they can make new
rules. I'll give you an example.
I'll give you an example just so you see where I'm coming from.
The Moschella Benaltova Zahole Thomas about the cut the show.
OK, Remember the Shabbat or or declare usually Zahollan in in
Jewish thinking is to say something, right?
To make a declaration about a past event, right.
So make a declaration Al Khameem, say Dohrejo Alayan.
They can do that. They have the authority.
They have the authority to interpret the whole that was
given to us by Musharra Banu. Musharra Banu didn't give us too
much, too many details as to how we make that declaration.
The hakami said we want to explain this.
That's called the Dean Mufla. You're going to be making that
declaration on a cup of wine. OK, they can do that.
You understand? Now, as far as individuals, do
individuals have any authority as such?
The answer is an individual has authority to the extent that
he's telling you what the Allah is, meaning no individual has
the right to make up laws. No individual can say, you know
the Allah Isaac did because I said so, because I'm greater
than you, because I'm smarter than you.
That's not the way Judaism works.
We love smart people. We love great people.
Of course, Needless to say, but the Jewish system works as
follows. You either are founded on the
primary authority of Moshe Abedne, with the secondary
authority of the Sunny Dream, acting as a legislative and
judicial body of the Jewish people.
But there's no authority. So, for example, in my opinion,
we shouldn't have we shouldn't have fish and and chips.
I think fish and chips shouldn't go together. 1 is negative
energy, the other is positive energy.
The fish is fried in oil and the chips is fried in oil.
OK, it's a nice idea that we have mixed the negative and the
positive and you destroy the world.
OK, maybe I'm right. Maybe the world will get
destroyed. But I have no authority as an
individual to create a law that wasn't given to us either by the
Sunny Dream or by Michelle Abeno, Right.
So and even if I'm great, even if I'm the greatest person
alive, I'm the smartest person, the greatest person alive.
I can stick a needle through the town load.
And I'll tell you exactly stop the needle.
OK? You know the word Imam now?
And you open it up and there it is right there, the word Imam.
That's what the needle stop. That's very impressive.
But that's not the basis for authority, you understand?
So this is this is an important point.
I think I don't need to say more on that particular topic unless
you want me to address it. There's there's a other second
part of the question. Before I get to the second part
of the question, I just want to see whether you have any
follow-ups. Of course what?
People will say today is that like you mentioned the
individual, but what people will say is, well, the majority today
think a certain way and the majority rules is no longer
applicable. So, so I think that's something
that needs to be kind of clarified.
Meaning if the entire if if the entire religious Jewish world
have embraced this way of of of hierarchy or way of doing
things. The Das Torah.
Das Torah and then, then, then, who are we to come in now, you
know? Yeah, we're we're just the
minority opinions. How could we say how could you
say this? How?
How could the how could have not?
I'm not going to say a name, but let's say how can this Godola
not known what you're saying right now?
Right, OK, I mean, let's, let's let's unpack it in in a few
different directions. So first of all, on the fact
that everybody says something or everybody does something is
irrelevant. It's either conforms with the
halacha or it doesn't conform with halacha, the basis for
Jewish law and for Jewish behavior.
It's what Allah Khan says. It's not what everyone does.
There is no basis for the idea that because everybody says
something, we must do it. The Pasuka Harera Dimlehat talk
means very simply that when you have the son and dream, there
could be a disagreement in the son and they're going to have a
vote and they're going to do a majority vote.
It doesn't mean that if you have a lot of 35 ameha artists who
don't know that they all think that we have to turn the back to
the that we have to turn the back to the, I mean, that's just
ignorance, right? So I'll give you a great example
in halacha and Amban brings the following law and he brings the
law. This is a great example.
Actually, I like this example. So let's say the halacha is that
somebody has to leave power. This is actually pereshot Ki
Tessa, right? This this week's pereshot
brought the law power, OK? It brought the law power in the
case of actually trees, but OK, and pereshot Kiloshim.
It brings a law of pay as well in the context of the field.
So it says like this, the law of pay is every the anime go in and
they get to harvest a particular portion of the field.
That's the way it works. So if I'm a big guy and I'm
strong, I'd probably get more than that person over there.
Maybe he's small and he's weak, but that's the way the law
works. Now let's say there's A10 anime.
Obama was the following case. There's 10 poor people and none
of them say, you know what, guys, this isn't nice.
We're going to go into the field.
We're all going to be fighting. Everybody's going to be trying
to get more than the other. How about we have the following
idea. Let's all go in together.
We'll divide everything equally. Steven even.
And the one on, he says, no, that's not.
I don't want to do it that way. Who do we listen to, Donnie?
Don't we listen to that one, honey?
Because the pursuit says lottier Haderabim let out the same
pursuit that says, says lottier Haderabim let out.
You do not follow the mistaken view of the majority.
So this is the majority does something is, is a complete
irrelevancy. I mean, there is a, we're not a,
we're not a democracy. You know, you want to work.
Since when the Jewish law does not depend on the democratic
will of the people. I mean, with all due respect,
that that's nonsensical. With the Rob's permission, can I
can I just go a little bit more into that for a second if
possible? Yeah.
And I'm basing this off of discussions that I've had with
many people, people who want to serve God properly.
They mean well and they want to understand.
Of course my assumption is everybody does wants to do so I.
Agree. Yes, Yeah, I'm just, I'm just
saying if we're just for the for the audience.
Of course. I think that the problem that a
lot of people have is that to them, if the overwhelming or the
prevailing system of das rang dulim is basically the
prevailing system, to them, if this is a incorrect system, then
in their minds, what's going on? And I, and this is coming from a
little bit of a they think, well, how could have Hashem
allowed for such a grave error to essentially take over for
hundreds of years now where like to them, it's like, why would
Hashem steer us so wrong? I mean, all we're trying to do
is follow the great rabbis and, and so we can serve Hashem if
the system is, is incorrect and we've been LED astray, you know,
with not on purpose necessarily, but from, from just the
incorrect system, why would Hashem allow that?
Why would Hashem allow such a situation to exist?
From my conversations with people, some of them say it
outright, some of them don't say it outright.
But my feeling is that this is the this is really what's going
on inside them that that's giving them a hard time
understanding this. Yeah, I mean, let me let me say
the following The Messiah didn't come yet, did he?
No. So the the notion that there's
nothing we can do to improve ourselves, one might say it's a
bit arrogant. Since when did God said?
When did God tell Jeremiah, I know you're all making a
mistake, That's really my fault? I shouldn't be letting you do
that. Is that the way Judaism works?
I, I thought the way it works is we, we do a lot of bad things
and that's what God sends the Naveen.
We finally decided to kill off the Naveen and God said, you
know what, enough of that, right?
As long as we didn't kill them all, though, God kept sending
more and more and more naveen to try to like, tell us guys,
you're, you're doing this wrong. This isn't, this isn't what I
want, right? That's all God can do, right?
I mean, God doesn't the idea of the hit off of sheet, and this
is one of the foundations of Judaism, is that we choose and
we can choose to do bad things. And many times we do very bad
things. That's not going to interfere in
our lives, the consequences of what we do.
Yeah, he might punish us. I didn't say not going to punish
us or reward us, right. But the notion that somehow, you
know, why would God let us do something wrong?
God's not letting us do something wrong.
God gave us some small God gave us and all the great Hakamin who
are teaching us Torah and, and now we're going to blame God for
our fault. Why didn't God teach us?
He did teach us. So the problem and the problem
is, and really what this really stems from is from when, from
when people are in yeshiva early, early on, the concept
that is being drilled, especially when they're young
into their minds is Hashka pratit.
And when we say Ashka pratit and you Shiva, it's not Ashka
pratit. You know, with the mood Eun.
And what exactly that entails doesn't entail you, you read and
you don't have to go to the rum, but you don't have to go to
Haram Bam, you can go to all the Rishonim.
All the Rishonim have a hard time getting to the bottom of
Ashka pratit. It's not a simple concept, but
what's happening is, is that this concept is being thrown out
there. Oversimplification,
oversimplification, thank you. Oversimplification.
And it's being etched in their mind so that it's very difficult
for them to see anything outside of, well, if Hashem wanted to
happen, it happens. This is what's happened.
No, it's it's caval and I'm lamenting it, but it is what's
going on. They're putting the onus on God,
that's the problem. This is the root of the problem
that this this oversimplification and not a no
no rigor. In but here's here's here's I
think. He's important if I can.
If I can maybe get into a little bit more than that, I apologize.
I think, I think the issue that they, they're having in the, in
the Das Toro world is that they've put kind of, it's not
about putting the onus on God, but they kind of, I, I hate to
say it, but you know, kind of deification of the rabbis where
the rabbi cannot make a mistake. So if the rabbi is in the place
of, kind of like, if he's in a place of, he's a spokesperson
for God, how can we question whether or not like, who am I to
say anything? Are you, are you the Benny
Schrei? Are you the, you know, that's
always what they throw at you. And, and if you dare challenge
such a notion, you know, you're, you're ostracized.
So I think that's really I, I, I don't know.
Yeah, there is that notion. It it, it comes from
Christianity, of course, because in Judaism and and one of the
fundamental was what in Judaism is Taurasi Balano, Moshe
Morasaki, Latya club. We teach our children the Torah,
we teach them the Torah about that.
We teach them the Torah. We teach them how to read.
We teach them how to connect letters and part of being a Jew.
And every Jew has an obligation to study Torah and to understand
the laws in the Torah. This is not a law that applies
to the so-called Gadolim, right? Every individual has an
obligation to study. Now we have an entire massifet
in the gamma light called Massacre Torayo.
What happens if the holiest person in AMI Slayel, the Kohen
Gadol, makes a mistake? Did you just say the Kohen
Gadol? Isn't he the one who goes into
the college? College team war?
Who are you? Who are you to speak about the
Kohengadol? Well, I mean, if you make some
mistake, you made a mistake, right?
And we have a Torah. The Torah is a very you know,
it's an equal standard to all, right?
It applies the same to the Kohengadol as it applies to a
simple pauper, a harvesting field in the in the wheat.
I'm sorry, harvesting wheat in the field, right.
It doesn't matter who it is now also deals with another
situation. What if the political authority
makes a mistake because there's people who have ideological
concepts about the leader or whether it's the head of the
Communist Party or whether. Well, I don't want to talk about
contemporary politics, but I think you all know what I was
about to say. Doesn't matter.
The point is people, they have an irrational feeling about
leaders who can't make mistakes. So are you saying the king can
make a mistake? Well, yes, According to my
Secretary Royote, he can. It's a right.
OK, but what about the dailing? Oh, my Secretary Royote also
deals with the greatest doyline with the Jewish people.
They're sitting in the sunny dream, right?
These doyline. What happens if they make a
mistake? How can we say that?
So how can we say this? The answer is we're not
Christians. That's all very simple.
You wanted a question epistemology and say, yes, we
are. We are we, we have Saints.
We have, you know, we can't make a mistake.
No problem. I mean, you know, fair, fair
enough. Choose your religion and then go
accordingly. You want Christianity?
You have Saints, you have, you want Judaism, you have people or
human beings will be Akiva supported by Kukva.
It looks like he might have been wrong about that.
I mean, I think the 90% of the Jewish population of Judea that
was massacred by the Romans might say that the be Akiva, who
by the way, I've considered it to be maybe one of the greatest
Talaim ever, simply one of the great like it's was.
If it wasn't for it to be Akiba, I don't know where we would be
today because he's the one who started this whole organization
of the Tarasaba Alpet that eventually was completed by the
Benoit Kadosh put that on the side.
I think the 90% of the Jews that were massacred by the Romans
pursuant to the 90% of the Jews in Judea that were massacred by
the Romans pursuant to the Barucha Revolution might think
that he made a mistake in supporting Barucha.
So this whole notion is completely questioned and far
into Judaism. I mean, you don't see anything
like this in the Gemara. You don't see this in the Sifra,
the Sifred, the Makita. Did you ever hear anybody say
anything like who are you and where do you see that?
I think that's the most beautiful thing about the the
Tanakh is that it's just a recording.
All of our mistakes, our leaders, our, our holy ones, us,
everybody, we're just even Moshe, even Davi, they're,
they're constantly making mistakes.
And, and that's the whole point. The, the whole point of it is
that like we are allowed to make mistakes.
We're expected to make mistakes. And all of a sudden today
there's a different, it's a different structure.
It's like a, it's like a dynastic leadership.
You know, a father passes away and his son becomes the leader.
And that, that wasn't the way it was.
So like this, this is what we're dealing with today.
It's very difficult to have these kinds of conversations
because you can kind of get quote UN quote cancelled.
And I, and I want to make clear because it's a sensitive topic
and this is not about in any way to demean or to, you know, it's
not about that. It's, it's a, it's a problem
which which we want to contribute towards getting to a
healthier place overall for the redeem for ourselves, for
everyone. It's not about putting anyone
down. It's not about disrespecting
Khastra Khalila. It's not, it's, it's about
identifying a problem and seeing how we can go about and and
fixing it. That's all it is right now.
Yeah, of course I I agree. I think the people are
misinformed. I think we discussed in the last
podcast, because we live in a Western society, Western norms
are more attractive to us. And therefore I speak about
Christianity, the idea that we somehow live in Christian
countries and we wouldn't get affected by them.
I mean, well, you know, my father, that's one of the things
he discusses in the Shadow of History.
He shows a clear relationship between some of the trends in
some parts of Spain and some parts of Germany and some parts
of France and Christian trends that were taking place and that
which which eventually led to the Athena against Halam bomb,
right in Barcelona and other places.
So why would we think that we are immune from mental
assimilation to Christian values where we see that we're actually
imitating the Christians in their view of sainthood?
I mean, it's, it's very obvious what's happening.
But this is far into Judaism. This is foreign to the Torah.
Again, we have an entire Maseta based on the end of parasha by
Ikla Ashel Nasiya Haita, and that's a king.
The e-mail Ineha Kahala established Gaga.
If they made a mistake, the sunny dream, the greatest
doyline ever. What happens if they made a
mistake? So right there in the Torah
given to us by Moshe. Amazing.
And for Part 2, because your father's book, Horizontal
Society, it's impossible to put it in a in a few minutes, but
we're going to ask you to try anyway.
If you could talk about the book, it it does apply to what
we've been talking now with Gadolin, but also in general, if
you can talk about horizontal society.
OK, Chapter 5, in the middle of the chapter, it has a list of
things, 10 things that were created.
Dana Shimashot, Asara devarim Nivreu, the idol of Shabbat,
Dana Shimashot. 10 things were created, Meaning after God
finished the creation there was an additional thing, 10 things
that were created during the twilight, right?
And then it has a list, miraculous things, Pihadis, the
earth that opened up and swallowed Korah, Piabe Air, the
water that followed the Jewish people 40 years through the
desert, and other things. Pihaton the Atom speaks
beautifully, right? Lamaze, Kitani, other things.
Then towards the end of the list, it has the following
towards Hakitav Behemoth. Usually the word khetab,
Milashon nikhdov, it's interpreted to mean the letters
meaning and writing. It's not clear that what does
that mean? Letters in writing?
What's the distinction between letters?
The writing? It's not, it's not entirely
this. This concept hasn't been fully
developed. He says the following.
He associates the Khetab like the standard explanation with
the actual letters. But then he says the Mikhailov
is the ability to connect the letters and create words.
Or if I may put it in more scientific terms, there is a
mental faculty that allows a person to look at letters and
join the letters and recognize words which have specific
meanings. So I want to look at this a
little more deeply. And right, this is my father.
This is all from my father in horizontal society.
OK, so obviously I can credit what credit is due, Needless to
say. So Ketab is the it's not just
letters, it's the ability to create a visual system of signs.
The signs are letters, but these signs, they stand for phonetic
sounds. It's very interesting.
For example, in Egyptian hieroglyphics, the signs stand
for a particular thing out there in the world, right?
So maybe something looks like a cow.
A picture of a cow represents the cow in the actual world.
But what's amazing here is that you have this Kitab system and
the Kitab system it's letters. And they stand for phonetics.
OK, But there's something even deeper here in the Hebrew
language, because an American in, in, in, in English, rather,
the letters have vowels. So when you look at a word, CA
is a vowel T. So it's you put the letters
together, right, the ketav, and you have the word cat.
What's interesting is that in Jewish writing, the letters
stand for consonants, right? So what you have in Jewish
writing is an unpronounceable phonetic sound.
That's crazy, right? So we have this system, what we
call the Aleph bet, which are actually unpronounceable sounds,
right? So when you have a text and you
open up the Torah and you want to read the Torah, what you have
is an unpronounceable sequence of letters, each one of these
letters standing, but each one of these letters a different
consonant standing for a different phonetic sound.
The now you understand the mishap system.
The mishap system is the mental process and the apparatus
through which these unpronounceable, the consonants
are synthesized by adding vowels and then join together to make
readable words. So that's the Kitab system and
the Mitab system. It's it's, it's, it's really
what when, when when the Hakamine said, I said it gives
you all these miracles. And then you see Kitab and
Miktabi say what's so miraculous about Kitab and Miktab?
But the fact that our mind can create this ketab system, or
maybe that that was given doesn't matter.
Either way, Armand got it right. This is an amazing thing.
Why would anybody? I couldn't understand why you
make hieroglyphics. OK, I want to make.
I'm going to sell my cow. I'm going to make a picture of a
cow. Cow.
You know, I give it to you. Whatever, right?
What is this thing about letters, right?
And unpronounceable letters because no vowels in Hebrew.
In the writing right now, I wanted to say this.
One of the great differences between the Torah and the Quran,
for example, is that, as I said, the Torah has no vowels.
The reader needs to supply the vowels.
The Quran has a vocalized text. It's called the Harakat, right?
On the other hand, is separate, which has vowels.
Now a Sephora Torah which has vowels is Pasu.
You can't read from it in public, right?
So what we see here is that in order to generate meaning, in
order to transform this series of non pronounceable phonetic
symbols into something readable with meaning, there has to be an
interaction between the reader and the text, right?
So when God communicates to the Jewish people, he communicates
to the Jewish people through the system either the written text.
But when he speaks, the pasuk says the whole Haram wrote in
ETA Kolot. You saw the sounds.
Now these sounds are the unpronounceable phonetic, let's
call it aleph, bed, e-mail, No, no, no vowels, right?
So God is speaking to the a people, to a nation who are
alphabetic and who can take the colot and they can hear Anokhi,
Adonai, Eloheja, Asher, Ponsetika, Maeres, Mesrine, the
dead, Abaddim, no ELEC, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
God is speaking to an alphabetic people.
That's almost miraculous, by the way, that we have the ability to
to do that, right? So that's one type of
intelligence. Hebrew intelligence is
alphabetic intelligence. And we spoke last week a little
about Greek where everything is visual.
There's these things, shapes and, and, and Hebrew we're
hearing and we connect things, right?
So let's look at the other world.
Let's look at what my father refers to as an alphabetic
speech, right? So an, an alphabetic speech and
most people, this is most Gentiles, most Jews as well.
Unfortunately, there is an an alphabetic aspect to speech
which predominates a lot of discourse today.
Where there was a there was a certain phonetic contour towards
and this phonetic contour represents the actual thing,
right? This is this is related to
metaphysics, where in metaphysics you have objective
truths. So the purpose of speech is to
conjure up that truth. Let me read to you.
Let me see if I can find this. Let me read to you what Ernst
Cassiar says. He was a prominent figure in the
Neocampian movement, and he explored some of these ideas of
an alphabetic. And if you just give me a
moment, I think I did this before.
Yes, here it is the notion that the name meaning the word and
essence meaning what the word signifies.
There are necessary and internal relation to each other that the
name does not merely denote, but actually is the essence of its
object. This is magical thinking.
So abracadabra is from the Hebrew word Evra abra Evra
cadabra as I speak, because in an alphabetic speech the word
contains the essence of the thing.
Now let me ask you a question. So if there was a truth out
there that is independent of text, let's say, and this truth
just exists out there, and then the word somehow capture this
truth, who can tell us what that truth is?
Now in Jewish alphabetic thinking, truth derives from
text because the text was spoken to the Jewish people and we have
alphabetic minds and we generate meaning by interacting with the
text. So the ultimate frame of
reference for any system from any truth is the Torah, right?
There's two books, actually. We have the Torah and we have
the cosmological book, the creation of the universe.
But let me ask you, in the case of metaphysics, in the case of
an alphabetic thinking, who's going to tell me what the truth
out there is? What do you think?
How can I know? Maybe I'm a simple person.
So. So the answer is you need what's
called, and I'm probably mispronouncing, mispronouncing
this word, but you need what's called the your patient
mentioned to, which basically is analogous to the idea of the
God, though the Europe agent mentioned, Tombs is an
individual who has some sort of access to the infinite because
he's a philosopher and he's been versed in the philosophies and
this person will guide us to the truth.
I'm a simple person. I never studied philosophy.
I never opened up the book of Aristotle.
I once tried to open up Plato's Republic, but I fell asleep
after about 15 seconds. So I need a Europe page.
You're a patient mention tombs to tell me the truth, right?
Does that sound familiar to to anybody here?
So why am I saying well this? So you have these two systems of
truth. One is metaphysical where you
need a Europe patient mention tomb like a God go, and the
other is textual, alphabetic. Those are the two systems of
truth in the world. As a Jew, I feel that it's our
responsibility to study the text of the Torah and to use the text
of the Torah as the ultimate source for truth.
And it doesn't mean that I exclude other people, Of course
not. But the ultimate criteria for
truth will be determined by the Torah and the authorities that
the Torah establishes. That's in stark contrast to the
vertical society. So in a horizontal society, my
parents taught me how to read my father, I love a Shalom brought
Micky Carey. I love a Shalom to my house.
I know how to read the Torah. I know how to read the whole
Torah from the book of Bereshi to the book of the video.
I mean, I know the rules of reading.
I know the I mean for each book I read perfectly.
Baruch Hashem, my father taught me right.
I read, I know what the I know what the words say.
And furthermore, I studied the Torah, Shabar Alphet.
My father taught me Torah right. And I studied Torah every single
day of my life. There's nothing special about
me. It's not that I have an IQ of
200, because I had an IQ of 200. I can tell you something.
No, I just followed the path that the Torah tells us all to
follow. Study Torah.
Learn how to read. You have to read properly with
Tamim and study Torah and study every single day of your life.
Take studying seriously. And that's the path.
So my truth is based on the Torah.
It's an alphabetic truth. Now, I know that in some
yeshivot they deemphasize the importance of studying Tanakh.
And unfortunately I've been in yeshivot where people don't know
how to read Tanakh and they don't know how to read
Persecute. That's a lot.
But they're studying in Mara. So that tells you that their
system of truth is a more metaphysical system of truth.
And they would say, so I don't think that there's, there's
there's much dispute as to they make a different content to the
metaphysics that they study, but they still have these
metaphysical notions, right? And that's why for them they
need a gun though. So there's a horizontal world
where we're all equal before the Torah and the Torah stands above
all of us equally, and we study the Torah and the Torah is the
source for everything. I need people to tell me
something. There's something that I know in
the Torah. I'll go to the hakam.
Hakam. Can you tell me what the Allah
has in this case? I don't know what it is.
Now. He cannot make up things on his
mind. He has to tell me.
The Torah says this misnet Torah.
They'll call this this says this and this and this.
That's all. OK, So that's that's a source.
That's a source. Or you have a vertical society.
In a vertical society, you're antiphabetic.
You need somebody to tell you what the truth is.
And that's why in these societies you have das Torah and
Doylin, because you don't have the right and don't have the
ability. Who are the doylin?
We'll tell you what the Doylin are.
You'll you'll know because we're going to call, we're going to
have you eat. We have a newspaper called, They
have Ted Nehman. We're going to say this person
is a God, though I, I want to say just one thing.
It used to be in the days of Aravo de ourself that there was
Maran, the Shukhana Ruth. He used to refer to the Shukhana
Rukhas Maran properly. So because we accepted or or in
the land of Israel, they accepted this would abusef Karo
as the authority and they used refer to him as Maran because he
had that special title. Then after Aravoday Assef passed
away, he used to refer to Shukhana Rukhas Maran.
Then after he passed away, they started referring to Aravoday
Assef as Maran. Fair enough.
OK, I'm I'm not sure what that means anymore because Madonna
had a very specific meaning. I love Harvard, I said.
I study his works all the time. Please do not misinterpret what
I'm saying. God forbid.
I'm not speaking, God forbid against Harvard, I said.
Of course not. But then they started referring
to other rabbis as Manans. Every rabbi, every time I turn
on the radio on in, in his own, everybody's Maran.
I don't know anymore. Like words are.
So now we have a lot, a lot, a lot of many, many, many Darlene
who know what I don't, what we don't know.
And there's all these Marans up there who are going to be now
the new authorities for truth and and metaphysics, I suppose
as well. Right.
And then you really just summed it up really well.
I also wanted the audience to get a little bit more on the
point of being above, like nobody's above the law In, in
the context of of Tanakh, we see that if you violate, if a priest
violates his rule, the rules that he has to follow, he loses,
he loses his position. Same thing with the king.
And that should apply to everyone, even to a rabbi,
right? Nobody is above the law.
I think that's what what you were saying in a vertical
society, even the person who is on top of that food chain and
the hierarchy, he's basically he's he's not replacing God, but
he's kind of the mouthpiece of God.
So you can't really question that person, correct?
Is that where you're they're? Questioning that person because
that person, by virtue of having access to the infinite, he's
your patient. European mentioned Tombs because
he has access to the, to the infinite and you don't have
access to the infant and, and, and the way you know you don't
have access to the infinite that he does is because he told
yourself and many, many other people told yourself.
So yes, of course you, you can't question him.
Who are you? You don't have the mind.
You can't understand things that he, he wrote.
He read all of Plato's Republic when he was five years old.
So of course, who are you to question him?
Yeah, that's one that's always been one of the most frustrating
conversations you can have with people because when you finally
prove them wrong, they just say, well, you're you're nobody.
And that person is somebody. So therefore what you say
doesn't matter. Even if you're right, you're
wrong. That's the problem.
Yes, yes, correct. I mean, but again, I I like just
putting it. I, I don't like arguing, I just
like presenting. And I think when you realize
what happened in Europe with, with, with Husserl, which I
quoted and, and he has a book called The Crisis of European
Sciences in Transcendental Phenomenology.
It was published in 1936. And there he develops the
concept of European humanity, which is taught closely to the
scientific spirit that is in the heart of European intellectuals.
So in, in the Khalidi world, of course, it's the Ashkenazi
rabbis, the Zephalidi rabbis. One of the reasons Zephalidim
were, you know, Zephalidim, I mean, right, there's a lot of
racism against Sapaladi until today.
If you're a Sapaladi and you want to have your daughter go to
a holiday school, it's, it's, it's a problem, right?
So the point is, you see, you see the parallels, how they have
the same attitude. I mean, it's, it's, it's very
obvious what's happening, right? You don't have to be a brilliant
historian to understand what the model is for the governor.
And it's fine. Go for it.
I'm not against it, but just not what you're doing.
This is not Judaism. This is something else.
So, you know, when the mashiach doesn't come and you know,
people are wise and the mashiach my coming, I, you know, well,
you know, maybe, you know, maybe maybe we should choose a Jewish
model instead. I mean, just as a just as a
humble suggestion. And I just want to add, it's not
just the Haredi institutions, it's even I went to elementary
school of modern Orthodox, Ashkenazi elementary school.
And I, I and many other Sparta kids were there did experience,
you know, I guess you can call it racism, but it is, it is what
it is. It's something that exists.
And unfortunately it, it's there.
We have to do what we can to educate people.
And hopefully we're going to get past all that.
So we wanted to get into the last part, which is very
important to us and to, to you obviously about your father.
And it's the topic of the phenomenon is, is cancel culture
in society today? Your father experienced that he
dedicated his life to reviving and preserving the traditions of
Old Spharad, yet he faced significant challenges and
conflicts from the quote UN quote Black Hat community.
Can you share some personal insights into who your father
was, what he stood for, and some of the difficulties he
encountered in his pursuit for a genuine, pure understanding of
tradition? And with that in mind, are you
hopeful for the future of Judaism?
Let me just start by saying I'm very helpful for the future of
Judaism for the reason that I know that intelligence
eventually reigns supreme. So I I I I, I am hopeful as far
as my father. That would be interesting to to
maybe discuss separately than this podcast.
But I do want to give you just a just a little about a little
about my father of some of the experiences I had.
You know, there's, there's there's a Talmudic passage that
when one studies Torah in the presence of his teacher, he
should be shaking in a fear. You know, the only person I've
seen this with is my father. He used to take Tamu Torah so
seriously that like we, we would want to go to silly cloth in the
morning. So high fast summertime Silicoth
was I don't even know like what it was like.
I think my mind was, I don't know where it was and he would
wake me up, but he would make me wake me up an hour before silly
cloth. We'd study Torah and you know,
I'd better have been awake during the double Torah.
There was no like, you know, there was no lagging off.
So literally, he was the epitome of what a real Hakam is.
And I think if he spoke to some of my father's other Tami deem,
you know, if you came to the class and you weren't on your
top, if he used to teach Kamala privately, you weren't in your
top form. You didn't remember what he said
the last Gus, you didn't prepare properly.
You didn't know how to read. It really was very frightening.
I don't know why you say what's frightening.
You didn't hit anybody, but you just felt such kadusha and such
intensity in the study. I remember once I was a little
boy, like it was three in the morning, we're studying Talah.
He woke me up and we're studying talah and this isn't Haifa.
Again in my grandparents house and this wasp started flying
into the room and I'm a little kid.
I got really naturally scared, but I was like, I'm just keeping
my eye on the text and I'm studying and I'm reading and
everything was fine. Nothing happened to me, of
course, because my father was there and, you know, nothing
would happen when we would study Tara.
So it was very interesting being raised by my father.
There was nothing more important for my father than the Torah,
then Talmud Torah, and he took it so seriously and he was so
mukhpeed in the traditions of our Hakamim.
There was no such thing as we're having a Gemara class.
And I misread a word and OK, just keep going.
Like I want to explain to you what it says.
No, read it correctly. There was this, it was like 0
tolerance for any mistakes. So he was a very serious Hakam.
His knowledge was unbelievable. I just want to give you one
story. It's 11:30 at night.
I'm much I'm I'm now, you know, married with Hashem kids and I'm
studying till I'm in Israel. I'm in a synagogue by myself
late at night and I've come across the Suvian Maserati of
Amalt and is a very difficult. There are some chapters there
where you literally need these diagrams.
Have these books like all these diagrams, you know, 10 brothers
then whatever. OK, so I'm studying this really
difficult suja and I called my father and he answers the phone.
It's 11:30 at night. Just yes.
I said I'm look, I'm studying this suja and I give him the DAF
and the safety of AMALT and where it is.
And he stops me. He says, Oh yes, yes, you have
this, you're studying this and you have this and this problem.
Let me tell you the answer. And I'm like, I don't know.
Like how on earth did he know that?
Like I'm like, I'm like I was, I was in shock because I was like
sitting there studying for hours and I'm sweating and I'm trying
to understand the sugah. And you knew what I was.
I didn't tell him what sugah was.
I just told him the Duff, right. You saw you're studying this
Sugah and here's your problem. And he gave me the answer.
So so it was it was quite something growing up with my
father and studying taught out with my father because of him.
I know what we'll tell me the hakami more.
You can't fool me. I just want to say that you
know, when you when you see when, when you experience a
real, you know, like one of the things that shocked me and I'm
just going to put it out here. Like when I used to be standing
under the Papa sometimes with my father and then it'd be Allah
with the Khaliyah, Shalom, another special, special.
So I remember I used to see him and my father discussing David a
Torah and this and you know, back and forth discussions,
Biki, oh tremendous Biki out on both sides.
Of course, I remember one of the things that shocked me is like
coming to America and seeing rabbis, meeting rabbis who
didn't have an interest in discussing David a Torah.
It really, it almost offended me.
I would be like in a wedding with the rabbi and I would kind
of want to share a idea in the Torah because it's what I was
used to. This is the world I was in.
Of course. What do you do when you're with
another hakami discussed? What do you got to look at your
phone? And I don't know what the, what
happened on Instagram, but I, I don't know what people.
I mean, OK, I know what people do.
But when you're with a Hakam Tamir Hakam, of course, you, you
discussed Torah. You want to hear the Torah from
the other side. You want to share your Torah.
What else is there? What can be more important than
that? Like you're standing under the
whole pond. They have like, oh, like the
Syrian weddings. They have like an hour, hour and
a half of like, you know, like different musics and the
marching and you're standing under the pop.
Of course, you discussed the pretora.
This is what I saw sound like. One of the things that shocked
me as like, rabbis that are not interested in Torah, That's
because they're like, it's not because they're not friendly.
It's just it doesn't interest them, you know, like, you know,
but not now, like, it's not. That's so important.
So, yeah, I was raised with my father.
I know what Torah is. I know what Hakam is, and I'll
say it a second time. You can't fool me, that's all.
Beautiful, beautiful. Well, may his memory be a
blessing. And I must say, you know, when
we were very pleased to discover very recently that, you know,
Ellie Shelby and Joey, if our put out this book with corn
publishing, which is like mainstream, you know, and that
that's such a great, amazing thing, though, if only your
father was able to see that, you know, amazing.
But this is really truly a big bracha.
And we, we are so excited that, you know, his, his, his
teachings are going to be, you know, in the mainstream, which
is unbelievable. Yes, yes, I was very happy.
Yeah. Yeah.
Joey, my son Joey. Joey Farour, Elisha will be a
friend of my son Joey. They spent a lot, a lot of time
editing the works. Yeah.
And thank God, Hashem, it is becoming mainstream.
And it's, it's, it's an alternative.
It's an alternative to a lot of the things we've been talking
about. Because, you know, when I say
alternative also, I don't mean God forbid that we somehow
compromise and all that. We're not lenient or strict, no,
we just want to follow the ways of the Torah, Haram bomb, the
Gemara, the Gionee, right? And people are trying other
things. They've been trying other things
for centuries. And it's not quite leading, you
know, not quite leading to anything good, I guess, right?
So I think my total, the total my father is really going to, is
going to be out there and it's going to be a very positive
development in ami sale. I see.
I see it happening. Without a doubt, without a
doubt. I mean, it definitely influenced
us and we're nowhere near where we should be.
But, you know, just, I think that his works definitely
trickled down to, you know, the little people like us and people
we know. It's, it's just like on a daily
basis and many chats that we're in, it's it's he's always coming
up in conversation. So he has a profound impact
already. I think I've in the last 10
years he's the most spoken about probably of all so.
I want to share with you one story and with this we can
finish. And my father was Paru Hashem.
He was so happy. He always felt that God was with
him and he would always say the Pasuka Elohim team tells
yourself before he passes away. God was always with me.
God was always guiding me. He really that's the Alcob.
I've even felt that my father used to say that all the time.
So I just want to share with you one Passu, which illustrates
this guy. Saw it so many times with my
father. And as you know, there's some
people who may not have wanted to read his works.
OK, put it that way. So he, he moved to Israel in the
mid 90s and he was, you know, he was an old already older, you
know, at the age where many professors are beginning to
retire. And yeah, he's, he's in Israel.
He wants he wants to work. So, so he goes to Bareillon
University. This is a story.
He just goes there. He has his resume, CV and he
goes in I'm looking for a job in the Talmud department.
So you know him and 5000 other people looking for a job in the
Talmud department in Barilan University.
I mean it's, it's impossible to get to get any professorship in
in Barilan, let alone in the Talmud department.
They have the best Talmud in the world of which my father was one
of them, but still he's older. So he goes in with his CV and
they he says I'm looking for a job in the Talmud department.
It's the month of September, so the term already started.
Just just so you understand. Now he has phobia tahan and
Hashem. He has phobia tahan and he knows
Hashem is with him. He knows it, right?
The same way you know I'm speaking with you.
Now he knows Hashem is with him, so it's September.
Doesn't matter. He knows Hashem is with him.
He's sitting. He says where do I apply for a
job? So they said sit down here.
He's sitting in the waiting room.
He has ACV, somebody comes out. Rabbi, what are you doing here?
My father looks at this person and he recognizes him.
My father used to get classes in Brooklyn.
He said hundreds of people come to the class, including many
Ashkenazim. This individual who says, Rabbi,
what are you doing here? That individual used to go to my
father's classes in Brooklyn. That individual became the head
of hiring in Bar Ilan University.
So he says, Rabbi, what are you doing here?
He says, I'm looking for a job as a Talmud professor.
He says just today one of our Talmud professors resigned and
it's the beginning of the term. We need somebody immediately.
Are you available immediately? Wow, Elohim, that was my father
felt that he believed that he experienced it.
He was a very happy with the constant presence of Torah and
of course the constant presence of the writer of the Torah,
Hakados Barucho. And even after his passing, you
see that Hashem is with him in that the work is starting to get
published in ways which are going to go into a lot of
people's homes. And you know, our podcast, we're
just trying to do our own small part, trying trying to bring
more influence. And of course, you as a son, as
you're doing your part and you're giving relentless, she'll
beam and interviews and instagrams and Youtubes and you
know, you're you know, and look, we really, really, really
appreciate your time. We know that the rough time is
is you take your time extremely seriously.
We appreciate the time that you took out to do this with us.
Honestly, I hope that this is not the last time.
I would love to do a podcast one time strictly on your father,
you know, just just to, you know, like a biography of sorts
and to go through because there's so much to learn and to
reflect on. His life is just it's it's a
life that needs that needs to be reflected on, needs to be spoken
about. Hopefully, maybe one day down
the road, but in the meantime, I think that the past two podcasts
that we did together was incredible.
I hope that the that the listener is enjoyed, reflect and
understand that everything we're doing over here, everything we
were doing together over here, because we want to see the best
for Claudia Sorel. That's it.
Yes, of course, of course. I love the Jewish people.
Nothing will make me happier than for Amisrel to get closer
to the Torah, closer to Akados Paruku.
And I absolutely know that once we do that, we will bring about
the gatewilla ourselves. The Gatewilla will come
automatically as a result of what we do to bring the
gatewilla. Amen.
Thank you so much. Thank.
You so much. Thank you.
For. The.