1 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:31,520 Music. Thank you for joining the 2 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,960 Judaism Demystified podcast. Once again, it's an honor to 3 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,280 have ABBA Shmuel Phillips on for the second time. 4 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,720 The first time we had you on, we were promoting your book Judaism 5 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,720 Reclaimed. And now thank God, we have 6 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,000 another book to discuss, which is Tom Would Reclaimed. 7 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,200 We're very excited to have this conversation. 8 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:52,600 Before we get into the questions, can you tell us a 9 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:56,320 little bit about the book? What inspired you to write it? 10 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:00,560 A little bit about the book. Yeah, well, first of all, thank 11 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,040 you very much for having me back on your podcast. 12 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,160 Very much enjoyed the previous time and I'm sure we're going to 13 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:10,520 enjoy this as well. So if Talmud reclaims or what is 14 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:11,720 it? What is being reclaimed? 15 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,840 How is it being reclaimed? Well, the the truth is that 16 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:18,720 there are many people I find even those who've spent years in 17 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,480 the yeshiva wild in the Ecolo system. 18 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,840 And there are certain questions they have where really, I think 19 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,800 which anyone has when they start studying Talmud, basic 20 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,800 structural question, which you'd have with with with any law 21 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,440 students, how does something become law? 22 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:38,440 How does the law change? What is the legal authority? 23 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,800 These are these are basic questions which they don't 24 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:44,880 really deal with very much in the Ishibas. 25 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,040 And I mean, that was just the first Shabbat lunch yesterday 26 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,360 and someone sort of mentioned I'd written a book and there 27 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:53,080 were two Yeshiba guys there. And they, they're basically 28 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:55,280 turned to each other and said we were up half of last night 29 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:56,760 discussing this, these questions. 30 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,360 And OK, how, how there aren't any books that really address 31 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:01,880 them properly in English. So, yeah. 32 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,400 So I, I tried to go through some of the, the basic questions that 33 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,840 the first section of the book discusses. 34 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:10,880 First of all, I mean, if you take the the Talmud and the 35 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,800 second of Gemara, how much of that is understood to come from 36 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:16,960 Sinai? How much of that came directly 37 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:21,560 from God Vinosha and it's been passed through the generations 38 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:26,080 and how much of that has been legislated by the Sanhedrin or 39 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,960 the Sages via the Sanhedrin through the generations? 40 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,720 How much of that can be changed and how much of those fixed can 41 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:34,240 you send hedrins that's up tomorrow? 42 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,400 Which laws can they revisit and which things are considered to 43 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:39,480 be off limits? Surely there are red line things 44 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:44,400 they can't change and, and many things that they can and 45 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,040 connected to that comes the question of the Dirac shot. 46 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:52,400 The the the all of the, the legal hermeneutical processes 47 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,720 that the that take up so much of the Talmud and extracting 48 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,840 apparently laws from the vases just to say to add this law and 49 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,640 that law. How much are we trying to mine 50 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,960 the hidden intent of the Torah to, to legislate new details of 51 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:13,320 laws and how much are we, or how much are the sages creating or 52 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,600 applying old laws and just finding places for that within 53 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,480 the Torah's text? So there's discussion about that 54 00:03:19,920 --> 00:03:22,800 and there's A and there's a matter of how to tell one part 55 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:24,520 from the other. What, what, which parts of the 56 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:29,840 Gemara are part of the, the, the core transmitted elements of the 57 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,640 oral tradition and how much are the, the, the, the legislative 58 00:03:33,640 --> 00:03:35,520 details? That's the first section. 59 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,920 And the second section moves into the, the post of the era, 60 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:40,280 an era. We don't have a sun headroom. 61 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,120 We don't have a judicial authority which is authorized to 62 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,400 create new law. So how does law change, if at 63 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,160 all, in the post Talmudic era? And there are different 64 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:53,920 traditions on how flexible law can be in the in this era. 65 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,320 We discussed the different styles of Talmud study, how that 66 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,120 has evolved over the years, and also the big question of 67 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:04,800 academic Talmud study, how they study Talmud in the universities 68 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,520 as opposed to how they studied in the Shivots, and how each 69 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:10,400 could perhaps learn from the other or not. 70 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:12,960 So these are some of the some of the big questions, as well as 71 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:15,480 the historical matters of how the Talmud came to be written, 72 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:17,519 how it came to be considered authoritative. 73 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:20,279 So yeah, many, many big questions are dealt with. 74 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,600 It really is like probably the only book out there that you 75 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:26,880 said is that really addresses all these issues. 76 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:31,000 So to anyone you know who's tuning in right now, I highly, 77 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,920 we both highly recommend reading this book. 78 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,040 We're not going to be able to cover all the topics in this one 79 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,680 podcast, so we we really recommend it. 80 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,280 So you touched on this topic. So I guess we'll start with 81 00:04:43,280 --> 00:04:45,520 this. In the opening chapter, we 82 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:49,160 discuss the state of halacha today and how we have 83 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:53,360 subconsciously come to Revere the halachic status quo so much 84 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,960 that we're almost uncomfortable thinking about or suggesting how 85 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:01,440 to reclaim and employ in the future the original legislative 86 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,360 power of the Sanhedrin. Can you discuss some of the key 87 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:08,240 points that make the Sanhedrin so unique and central to the 88 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:12,000 halachic system, and why without the Sanhedrin, the modern world 89 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,880 is stuck in what you call a quote UN quote halachic exile? 90 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:19,040 Right. These these a big topic. 91 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,760 I mean, the first point as an introductory point is just to 92 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:27,120 understand what halacha is. Halacha is a is a national legal 93 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:31,800 system for the Jewish people and any legal system has to have 94 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:36,480 certain has to have some kind of judicial body to interpret and 95 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,160 to determine the details, address new scenarios. 96 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,840 We have it in the Torah tells us our Piatarache Arouka that we 97 00:05:42,840 --> 00:05:47,480 keep the laws of the Torah in accordance with how the judges 98 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,440 present them to us. So we're told we have a judicial 99 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:55,000 body. And before we go into the unique 100 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:59,080 aspects of the Sanhedrin, the Jewish judicial body, just to 101 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:03,160 appreciate how any legal system requires a judicial body to 102 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,760 interpret the laws for us, for even very seemingly simple laws 103 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:10,440 that do not kill. Sounds like a very simple, easy 104 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,800 to to apply or you can't go and kill other people. 105 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,120 Well, no. We know how much debate there is 106 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:18,080 in America now about what's what's considered a living 107 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,600 being, What is the what, what is considered life? 108 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:24,840 At what stage, if at all, is a fetus considered fully alive and 109 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,960 being forbidden to kill a fetus, the end of life? 110 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,960 We have a similar debate with the organ donation. 111 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,560 At what stage is someone considered no longer to be 112 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:36,280 alive? You can take the organs out of 113 00:06:36,280 --> 00:06:38,200 the body without worrying about killing them. 114 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:41,240 So these are new questions somewhat that didn't really 115 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:43,640 exist at the time with the mission and the Gemara, which we 116 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,360 would need the Sun Hedrin to come and define for us. 117 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,840 What about self defence? There's a big question in Israel 118 00:06:49,840 --> 00:06:51,800 now. Under what circumstances, at 119 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:56,680 what level of risk can you go? And when you believe someone's 120 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:00,800 attacking you go and shoot them. So these are big, big questions 121 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,400 which are seemingly simple law do not kill will bring up. 122 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,960 And we have complex laws about not doing mullahat on Shabbat. 123 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,680 And many of the scenarios, many of the debates we have now about 124 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,840 electricity communications, These are things which is very 125 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:19,160 hard for us to know with any definitive certainty what the 126 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:22,120 law is today. We have to go back to to ancient 127 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:26,560 agricultural examples and a Mishnah and the Gemara to try 128 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:30,000 and work out how things like electricity fit into these, to 129 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,320 these, to this system. Every new technology is a 130 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,760 question. So when we talk about why are we 131 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,520 missing us on hedren, why, why Jewish law seems to be frozen? 132 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,720 We haven't had a, an authoritative body since, well, 133 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,880 at least the last 1500 years, which can tell us with any 134 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:51,120 certainty how details of Jewish law, how new technologies can be 135 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,720 addressed. Why is that? 136 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,720 That is because we had, we had this principle, the end of the, 137 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,120 the Gemara of Ravina, Ravashi Sofharah. 138 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,680 There was a Sanhedrin that was sitting through the, the, the 139 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,240 1st, the 2nd Macdush period. I go through the, the historical 140 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:09,400 aspect of it in the book. Then we have the, the, the 141 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:13,120 Mishnah of Raviol Donasi, which which sits down and fixes many 142 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:15,720 of the, the laws and in the details of the laws, you know, 143 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,760 in an authoritative way. And then we have Ravina and 144 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:23,840 Ravashi who were Sharira gone in his famous letter describes how 145 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:28,120 their Academy in Barvel was considered authoritative. 146 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:32,640 The other rival academies recognising Ravashi's greatness 147 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:37,159 subordinated themselves too Ravashi and said, look, we, we 148 00:08:37,159 --> 00:08:40,039 are going to accept his, his, all his rulings. 149 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:44,320 And at that stage in history, these other academies between 150 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,880 them, they represented all or the vast majority of, of Jewish 151 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:50,400 scholarship. And we have this, this, this 152 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:54,440 state, this state of Jewish scholarship where one Academy 153 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,520 that was really accepted by the, the entire Jewish people, which 154 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,440 gave it, according to to many of the commentators, some kind of 155 00:09:00,680 --> 00:09:03,040 Sanhedrin like data. So we haven't had anything since 156 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:04,960 then. So Rabina Ravashi, the end of 157 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:09,000 the Gomorrah, they, they finalized the, the, the, the 158 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:14,040 halachic rulings of the Gomorrah and the rulings that we have in 159 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,920 the Gomorrah are considered Saif hara, the end of innovative 160 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,360 legal rulings. And the problem is that was 1500 161 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:25,280 years ago. So in terms of defining, sorry, 162 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:29,720 in terms of defining details of Jewish law, any new law that 163 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,720 comes up now a question of how to how, whether a certain new 164 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,560 appliance is prohibited on Shabbat, at what stage a person 165 00:09:37,560 --> 00:09:40,520 is considered to no longer to be alive, in terms of organ 166 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:42,520 donation. All these questions we have to 167 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:47,560 go back to these ancient sources and try and debate to be and, 168 00:09:47,560 --> 00:09:51,760 and compare and, and, and contrast different matters to 169 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,520 see, to see if they're, they're similar. 170 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,440 So that's a matter of the halakha being in exile instead 171 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:00,720 of having a Sanhedrin today, we're able to address and define 172 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,120 with clarity. Some of these issues will end up 173 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:07,840 going back to making parallels and arguments over from really 174 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,800 ancient agricultural cases. That's that's one dimension of 175 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:15,360 it. The other thing I would say is 176 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,680 that Jewish law, the Jewish Sanhedrin, goes further than 177 00:10:18,680 --> 00:10:19,960 this. That's everything I've said so 178 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,200 far would be relevant to a regular legal system. 179 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:28,320 Any judicial body needs to address and apply laws to new 180 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,760 scenarios. But Jewish law goes further. 181 00:10:31,680 --> 00:10:34,720 And that is because we're told that the Meshachmat talks about 182 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,160 this, the Malaki, there is other sources. 183 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,640 The part of the function of Sanhedrin is that they are 184 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:44,360 supposed to be sensitive to the needs of each generation, and 185 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:48,360 they are supposed to legislate the details of Torah law in 186 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:52,800 order to maximize this relevance to the generation in question. 187 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:55,720 And to ask this seems like such a foreign concept because we we 188 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:57,480 haven't had a stunt hedge for so many years. 189 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,560 And especially with the, the, all the various pushbacks we've 190 00:11:01,560 --> 00:11:05,800 had over Conservative and Reform Judaism, who are, who are, who 191 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,920 are very much advanced. The idea that even now we can, 192 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:13,800 we can change aspects of Torah law, Orthodox duties in Germany 193 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,560 seems to say that we need a, a already formulated sun hedren in 194 00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:19,000 order to do that. They're not getting into too 195 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,680 many details, but because there's been a sort of pushback, 196 00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:24,600 we, when we say Revere the status quo, we've come to very 197 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,720 much think of the laws which were passed in the mission. 198 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,840 And then the Gemara is being sort of sacrosanct and the ideal 199 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:35,080 state of Judaism and the idea that we are supposed in an ideal 200 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,920 state of the Jewish system to have a, an active body of sun 201 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:42,640 Hedren to change and apply laws, details of laws, again, not the 202 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,040 core aspects of you admit. So that details of laws in order 203 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,040 to maximize their relevance is something which seems very 204 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,280 foreign to us. So these, these are some of the, 205 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,680 these are some of the reasons I, I can, I can give an example to, 206 00:11:53,680 --> 00:11:59,120 if you want to the sort of the, the sort of changes that Hedren 207 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:01,480 can make. There's a mission at the end of 208 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:05,360 the first chapter of Kuritut which talks about it. 209 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:09,280 It's a, it seems like a fairly technical debate because there's 210 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:13,160 a law though, a woman who has given birth, who has had, who's 211 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:21,000 had a miscarriage has to bring certain sacrifices to birds to, 212 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,800 to complete her purification process so that she can now 213 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:26,720 enter the Beta Mcdash or eat carb or not. 214 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,200 And very typically at that time, the second Beta Mcdash, not 215 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:32,160 everyone lived very close to Beta Mcdash. 216 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:34,600 So people would come once every few years, once every five 217 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,320 years, once every 10 years. And so the question comes up, 218 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:42,240 what happens if a woman comes to the base of Mcdash and she's had 219 00:12:42,680 --> 00:12:46,120 several childbirths or miscarriages between her last 220 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:47,840 visit? She's got to bring 3-4 lots of 221 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:51,280 carpal knots. So does she offer one set of? 222 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,640 Birds, or several, one for each miscarriage, one for each birth. 223 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,000 And the rabbis argue about it one way or the other. 224 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:01,360 They they they compare precedents and the Hedren rules 225 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,480 more stringently that she has to bring a set of birds for each 226 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:06,840 obligation. Rob Schumerman Gamliel who's in 227 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,200 the sea goes out and sees that the the market prices has has 228 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,800 raised up the the traders taking advantage of this ruling and he 229 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:15,720 says this isn't going to do they're they're they're they're 230 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,400 they're ripping off people. They're the the the market's 231 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,080 taking advantage of people aren't going to be able to 232 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,320 afford their car by not he says no, it's not going to do. 233 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,840 He goes back into the Sanhedrin and they re sit upon the case 234 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:28,480 and they say no, we can't do this anymore. 235 00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:32,360 And they they rule according to the other set of Sanayim, it was 236 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:36,200 Rebi Akiva that said that one carbon can fulfil all of the the 237 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:40,160 obligations. That's just one example as to 238 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,400 this idea that Sanhedrin is supposed to as again, this is 239 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,200 not, it's not their exclusive role, but they're supposed to be 240 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,800 taking into account the facts on the ground that these things 241 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,600 sensitive to the needs of the generation when they're 242 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:54,560 legislating. And the Mesha Khokma talks about 243 00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:59,040 this in his in his commentary to Bukokai when he's talking about 244 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,640 the rebuke. The part of the part of what 245 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,520 we're missing, which we don't even realize, he says is we're 246 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:09,720 not having a sun headrin to because we exile from the land. 247 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:13,040 We don't have a sun Headrin, therefore we're not able to have 248 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:14,960 a Torah which appeals to a youngster. 249 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:16,600 He's talking about 1920s Germany. 250 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,400 He had Malachi writes this and it's it's also you find the 251 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:23,760 Mystics writing about this Dego Machiner Fryin, who's a it was a 252 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,520 rabbi wrote about how from from his perspective as Sanhedrin is 253 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,280 supposed to. I think the way he puts it, each 254 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,160 generation has a different shy Shyama and the Sanhedrin has to 255 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,440 be sensitive to it and legislate in accordance with the spiritual 256 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:38,960 needs of the generation. So it's something which is which 257 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:43,000 is recognized from all different routes, but partly because of 258 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,920 political and you know, you form conservative Orthodox part of 259 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:48,640 the past. Some of the the battles between 260 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:52,760 them, we, we view an idea of halachic change in a very 261 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,640 negative way. And that's part of this idea 262 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:58,160 that you mentioned, halacha being in exile, the Sanhedrin 263 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,640 being in exile, and that's not being used to how halacha is 264 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:06,160 supposed to work. Where does the modern day OSEC 265 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:13,080 come into this? So the modern day Possec, well, 266 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,280 that gets into a different question of when there is no 267 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,320 judicial body, when there is no authoritative judicial body. 268 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,280 We said to Ravina Ravashi Sofhara that the end of the 269 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:26,880 Gemara is considered some sort of sealing of of innovative 270 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,560 ruling. So how much flexibility is there 271 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:31,160 for a modern Possec to change things? 272 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,440 And that is, I mean, that is the whole section B of the book, 273 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,440 that's there are different groups of Rishanian that 274 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,720 approaches differently, but the the rumbam, the rift, the 275 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:45,440 Ghanaian, who are generally much stricter in terms of how to 276 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,960 apply comedic law to the modern era. 277 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:50,840 So when questions come up, they're much more likely to say, 278 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,640 well, that is the law as expressed in the Talmud, even 279 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,840 though it doesn't seem so relevant to us nowadays what 280 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:00,560 that they were authorized to legislate, We are not. 281 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,920 So even though, for example, my mahranim doesn't doesn't seem to 282 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:06,120 be so necessary for us, we can still do it. 283 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,240 We can't change it. Even though we're not going to 284 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:11,480 make instruments on or fix instruments on Shabbat by 285 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,560 clapping and dancing. If that state is the law, then 286 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,360 we will keep it regardless. Whereas by the ballet toss of 287 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,640 art and other issue them are more likely to to try and say, 288 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:24,040 well it was legislated in the mission on the Gomorrah, but 289 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,320 that was under a certain set of circumstances which isn't 290 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:28,760 relevant now. Therefore, inbuilt within that 291 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:32,320 ruling, is there some kind of ability to be flexible and more 292 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,160 powers delegated to the modern day Parsec. 293 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:38,040 So that opens up a whole new question, which essentially is 294 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:41,880 is a battle between, I guess you call it the the old safari, the 295 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:46,600 classic safari, the Rishonim who applied this more strictly and 296 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,440 the ballet toss on the other end of the other end of the extreme, 297 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:55,160 who are who are much freer in in understanding their rights, the 298 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:59,120 authority to interpret and to contextualize some of the 299 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,480 rulings. And we're probably probably the 300 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:03,280 modern day posse is somewhere in between those two. 301 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:07,720 It's. Briefly, before we get into the 302 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:13,319 second point regarding Harambam's two tiered system, I 303 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,760 wanted to ask you if you can just briefly go into what gave 304 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,000 the Talmud it's binding authority. 305 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,319 I think this is a very important point that a lot of people have 306 00:17:23,319 --> 00:17:27,599 never considered. It's something which it's 307 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,440 there's a measure of debate about this. 308 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,680 The interview tell the truth because Alpia Torah, Shayarukha, 309 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,880 the Torah, it gives authority to a Sanhedrin. 310 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,360 I mean, if you take it very literally, it's a Sanhedrin. 311 00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:45,960 It's a judicial body made-up of Konim, maybe exclusively or 312 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,400 primarily of Konim. We're sitting in their chambers 313 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,600 next to Bethan Mcdash. That is the recognized 314 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,200 authorized body in the Torah, in the written text of the Torah. 315 00:17:56,120 --> 00:18:00,760 And but, but, but we know historically that authority has 316 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:04,000 been wielded by courts, by a Sanhedrin even who are, who are 317 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,560 not made-up exclusively of Khanim and who are not sitting 318 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,760 in these chambers. So there's a number of 319 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:13,880 commentaries and rebel Khan and Wasserman is 1. 320 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,160 Hamfauer is another. It seems to others they they 321 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:21,680 understand that the Sanhedrin represents the national rabbinic 322 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,560 authority, so to speak. When you have a recognised 323 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:29,640 rabbinic authority which is accepted by all the majority 324 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,920 that exactly how you define it, but it is seen as the recognised 325 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:36,840 authority among the Jewish people, then that can have the 326 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:40,520 same level of authority as a Sanhedrin to interpret things. 327 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:44,440 We saw there was a bed in in Yevnet in various other places 328 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:48,240 after the destruction which which was which was seen as 329 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:50,920 authoritative. It wasn't made-up fully of of 330 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:52,560 Kanim. So we see there's some level of 331 00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:56,440 but yes, the Torah sets out certain conditions of what an 332 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,400 authoritative court is, but it's not exclusively that Riguer 333 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,120 dynasty was in the north of Israel. 334 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,360 He created a mission now that seemed to have that was accepted 335 00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:09,000 as having a binding authority. But then after rigid dynasty, 336 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,640 there was the there was the general movement over towards 337 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:13,600 Baval. For a while, though, the the 338 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,440 Jewish people split between Baval and the land of Israel, 339 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:21,960 and there was no there was certainly no unified the 340 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,560 acceptance of Jewish authority until we get to this time of 341 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:27,680 Rabina Ravashi and their Catherine Sura. 342 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:31,480 And this is an important point for those who have read the the 343 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:35,680 letter of Shiva Ragon, the Garrett Shiragon, which is a 344 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,760 which is a really, really important work that people 345 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:42,200 should read as an introduction to the Talmud alongside the 346 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:43,680 Rambam's introduction to the Talmud. 347 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:49,480 And he, he goes through to explaining how each of the, of 348 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:54,640 the rival academies in Babel, you had to have Pumbadisa, you 349 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,320 had Surah, you had to these various academies, how they 350 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,600 recognised the, the greatness of Ravashi. 351 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,800 And then he, he brings tombotic sources to show how these 352 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:09,400 academies therefore subordinated themselves, their, their legal, 353 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,400 their, their legal rulings to Ravashi. 354 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,280 By that stage, by the way, there'd been a high level of 355 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:17,840 persecution in the land of Israel. 356 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,120 The Yorushalmi had finished being being written in Jerusalem 357 00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:24,800 Talmud and the primary scholarship of the Land of 358 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:31,360 Israel had either migrated or been communicated to Bavel, 359 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,200 which is so So the scholarship of the Land of Israel you find 360 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,320 within the Baveli, it incorporates a lot of the 361 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:40,520 scholarship of Israel. So it's not just Bavel's 362 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,240 academies which are subordinating sort of Ashi, the 363 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,840 Babylonian scholarship of the stage includes it encompasses 364 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,520 the Palestinian, we call it to the land of Israel. 365 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,520 But then I can I use that phrase the, the, the Israeli, the, the, 366 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,880 the Jerusalem Talmud. There's so many Sikyats the the 367 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,560 the missionaries brought and the first voices we hear are Amar so 368 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:05,120 and so Amar of your Khanan, who's the who's the one of the 369 00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:10,040 main figures in the Oshami or Kiata Rabin or so on. 370 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,800 He he brought with the message of Jochenan and Rove Jochenan is 371 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:18,120 so revered within the bubbly that that that his rulings are 372 00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:21,000 adhered to overrun who was the primary Babylonian MRR. 373 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,760 So, so that you've got the, all the scholarship from the land of 374 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:30,600 Israel plus all of the academies within Bovael and Ravshira shows 375 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,400 that they were all subordinating themselves to Ravina Ravashi to 376 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:39,280 the extent that you now have a Torah Gudula Bamaka Mehrad, you 377 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:43,920 have this unified authority in the yeshiva Surah for I think 378 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:47,640 it's at 70 or 80 years. And, and Ravashi, according to 379 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,760 this Ravindra Ravashi, they held the same sort of status as 380 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,200 Jubila Dhanasi. They were seen as the unified 381 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:58,960 halakhic authority and that gave them some kind of quasi 382 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:03,680 Sanhedrin status, national rabbinic authority status, which 383 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:07,240 is why the Gomorrah says what they made in Surah was not going 384 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,600 to be easily undone. And and that's we said about 385 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,800 them, Rabina Rashi, Sokharah, because at the I think it was 386 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:18,280 the year 499 in Surah, there was there was a big pogrom with a 387 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,440 big exile. Jews were scattered all over the 388 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,600 even further out again. And from now time onwards, we 389 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,520 haven't had the unified, any sort of unified system. 390 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,120 So that was really the last time we had some kind of recognized 391 00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:35,200 central rabbinic authority that could be seen as in the place of 392 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,240 the Sanhedrin. That is, that is what gives the 393 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,560 yeshiva in Surah this this unique status. 394 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,240 I'm wondering. I'm wondering theoretically 395 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:51,480 speaking, since today with communication is so much easier 396 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:57,600 than then, I wonder if if we were to have a unified system 397 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,200 today, you don't even necessarily need to have 398 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,840 everybody in one place like back then, because communication is 399 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:11,640 is not necessarily it's it's it's doable to to have a 400 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,640 central, a central unified system. 401 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,000 Even, you know, people from America and from wherever 402 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:22,560 because it's just we're not we're not at the same our our 403 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:26,000 level of communication makes it plausible. 404 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,480 Now I'm just wondering theoretic, just a point to raise 405 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:29,800 you're. Saying you could have a say a 406 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,520 Sanhedrin type body who are all on some kind of Zoom forum and 407 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:38,320 they can debate and come to some kind of decision that way. 408 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:44,320 Communication is communication. Is is is the easiest thing to 409 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,640 achieve today, so you could have not. 410 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,000 Again, not a full sun hedron, which with all its, all its 411 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,120 powers, but some kind of rabbinic authority. 412 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:53,520 It could. I mean, the problem we have 413 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,600 today is that people have there've been so much 414 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:59,160 fragmentation and stitching into different groups and rabbis in 415 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:03,760 each group are so used to being able to a full political 416 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,680 authority over their followers, over their subgroups, that, that 417 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,280 no one's in a hurry to give that up and to and to what do you 418 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,440 call it? The, the flexibility or the 419 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,000 humility or whatever you want to call it to stay. 420 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,440 Look, we're all part of Kali's trail. 421 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,920 We're not. So just our group and therefore 422 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,240 we're going to look together and find the 70 greatest ages or how 423 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,480 many it is and come to legal rulings together. 424 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,040 So I I don't see it happening in a in a hurry in our generation, 425 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,520 but yeah, please, God, yeah, we definitely, we definitely do 426 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,560 need it, as I, as I discuss in the book for sure. 427 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,160 OK. And we wanted to know if you can 428 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,960 get into Hambam's two tiered system. 429 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:47,160 You bring up a very, very, to me at least, it was a fidouche. 430 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:51,920 I never, I never realized what you, what you uncovered when you 431 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:58,160 looked into the mourn of Wuhrman with, with regarding the general 432 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,440 laws versus the details. And you have a very interesting 433 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,120 fidouche, if I may call it that, and wanted to know if you can 434 00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:07,480 get into that. You also brought up Christina 435 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:13,200 Hayes, a very poignant point critique of her. 436 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:14,960 We wanted to know if you could talk about this stuff. 437 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:17,800 Right. So this is, yeah, it's another, 438 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,120 it's another big topic, a big question. 439 00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:24,360 So at the start of Rambam's introduction to the missioner, 440 00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:25,720 and this is again, this is something which is so 441 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,160 fundamental that Rambam puts it at the start of his introduction 442 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,560 to the missioner, meaning this something you have to have clear 443 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,120 and internalize before you really learn the missioner, the 444 00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:40,280 Gemara, anything. He's talking about the system of 445 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,400 transmission and revelation of the Torah. 446 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,200 And he talks about how each mitzvah that Masha received in 447 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,640 the desert, he didn't just receive the, the few words of 448 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,320 the written text of the Torah that in which this mitzvah is 449 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,680 expressed. Every mitzvah is received with 450 00:25:54,680 --> 00:26:01,200 Perusha with its explanation. This explanation encompasses 451 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,800 the, the, the, the core aspects which without which is mitzvah 452 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,960 doesn't make sense if you are told to dwell in a sucker for 453 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,600 seven days and you don't have no idea what a sucker means. 454 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:13,760 So that's a bit of a meaningless commandment. 455 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,360 So you have to have a basic understanding of the of the, the 456 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:20,000 basic structure of the mitzvah. And then there are the finer 457 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:25,360 details of the of the of the mitzvah, which can which can be 458 00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:26,560 determined, which can be discussed. 459 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,320 And I'm going to I'm going to quote a passage here because in 460 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:33,080 his own words call Mashikiba MI Moscher who are commensicanium 461 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:37,640 in a double or love anything which was received directly from 462 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,200 Moscher that can be or the prophets. 463 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,440 It's really from Moscher. There can be no discussion about 464 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,280 not enough Obama clocket. There can be no debates. 465 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,120 There could be no disputes, it could be no change, anything 466 00:26:50,120 --> 00:26:52,880 that was received, any of this Karishma Kabal, which represents 467 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,240 the core aspect of the commandments, that is beyond 468 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,320 debate, Mashallah. Shama. 469 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,320 By Paris Rupee and Nabi Allah Bashallah, but it was not heard 470 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:07,400 explicitly from Marshall Abenu Mihanim Hamistariki mayhem from 471 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,280 the. Matters which branch. 472 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,800 Off from them. So if we can think of a mitzvah 473 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,880 as some kind of tree, you have a central trunk and, and the and 474 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,320 primary branches of the tree, which represents the main 475 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,480 structure of the mitzvah, which hold it together, which which 476 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:30,560 define its basic function. That was that was transmitted 477 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,800 from Usher Abeinu. And then it's beyond astute, 478 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,080 beyond discussion. The finer branches, the small 479 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,560 bit the the the the finer twigs and branches the the leaves 480 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,600 that. Was left open. 481 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,280 And undefined. Now Henhopty didn't this far us. 482 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,960 Some of these were legislated subsequently by the stages by 483 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:55,360 the courts through logic, commodic logic, but may not have 484 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,720 to deny to address his bond through the hermeneutical laws. 485 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,160 And as he goes on to say, among these finer details, there are 486 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:08,480 things which fell into disputes and were debated and discussed. 487 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,800 And that's how Mark Lockett and that's how we have so much 488 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:15,840 dispute in the Talmud in the second mitzvot, his introduction 489 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:17,880 to Shara Shin, to the second mitzvot, the Rambam seems to say 490 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,640 that the majority of the majority of Talmudic law or 491 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:26,960 Torah law falls into the second category of not of things which 492 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,920 were not communicated directly by Moschet to the people. 493 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:35,680 The things which were left open and undefined to be discussed, 494 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:41,440 debated, legislated by future stages in Sanhedrin through 495 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,480 application of a divinely ordained system, the the, the 496 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,880 sort of Talmudic logic and the droshak, the hermeneutical 497 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:52,960 system and these things, these finer details that often 498 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:54,360 referred to as the race suffering. 499 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:55,960 The race suffering means rabbinic law. 500 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,960 Which is which? Is because even though they're 501 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,680 fully. They're fully they're, they are 502 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:06,960 Torah law, but they are defined and legislated by the, by 503 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,640 rabbis, really by the courts. And among the second. 504 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:16,800 Category the the the courts can revisit these details and 505 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,720 redefine them and come up with different drasha different on 506 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:25,640 the Utica ways of defining these details each generation. 507 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:28,600 But the thing that you're referring to in terms of the 508 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:34,280 moron of Wuhim is that this this two tier system of having a, a 509 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,240 the core aspect of every mitzvah, which are almost 510 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:43,400 untouchable, and then the finer details which are open to being 511 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,680 revisited. We legislated at the flexibility 512 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,080 there. I noticed this. 513 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:52,040 This parallels a different discussion within the moral of 514 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,600 Wukim, the third section of the Guide to perplex, where Rahman 515 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,400 gives his reasons for the mitzvah, the tamer mitzvah. 516 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:02,680 And he again there distinguishes between the core aspects of 517 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,720 every mitzvah which he says have reasons for them which we can 518 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,360 propose and understand and appreciate. 519 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,120 And then the finer details of every mitzvah about which we 520 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:17,000 don't necessarily look to understand why these reasons 521 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,760 were legislated. And it occurred to me that maybe 522 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,240 there's, there's some kind of crossover between these, between 523 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:29,400 these two different systems of core call functions of the 524 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,720 mitzvah and find the details. And this is during my during the 525 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,560 corona lockdown when I sort of shut up in my in my room with my 526 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,840 books for a few weeks. So I said, well, let's go 527 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,600 through these 1520 chapters of guide perplex. 528 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:45,000 And I wrote down every single detail of a law which the Rumbam 529 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:49,440 draws upon when he is suggesting reasons for the mitzvah and 530 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:50,800 said, well, let, let's have a look at them. 531 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:52,720 It it people think that he doesn't draw on any details. 532 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,080 That's all. He brings in quite a lot of 533 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,920 details. But when you look up these 534 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,440 details in the mission of Torah and other places, you notice 535 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,400 that he does not really. He doesn't bring any detail 536 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,680 which arises from a drashar, which arises from a 537 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,760 hermeneutical, what we call the very soft rim, a finer detail of 538 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,480 a mitzar which was legislated by the courts, which which was 539 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,080 flexible, which could be changed. 540 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,280 All of the details he brings are things about what he says. 541 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,880 This was, this was a tradition which was transmitted from 542 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,160 Ashraab or, or some equivalent phrase, which is fascinating 543 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,000 because what you see really is there's some kind of, there's 544 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,440 some sort of crossover here and it makes a lot of sense. 545 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,920 Why is that? Because if there's as. 546 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,480 As we said before, the core aspect of every mitzvah 547 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,720 represents its primary function. So if we're going to look for a 548 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,200 detail of a mitzvah, it makes a lot of sense to say we're going 549 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,840 to look at the primary aspect of that mitzvah, not the finer 550 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:48,880 details. But these finer details were not 551 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:50,200 defined. They were not transmitted by 552 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,040 Moshe. They were not just transmitted 553 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,880 through prophecy. And they're open to be changed. 554 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,840 They could be disputed. One time I could say, I saw one 555 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,840 could say Mutzar and the San Hedrick could vote one way and 556 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:04,480 one generation and revisit that and and vote a different way in 557 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,920 another, in another generation. So how can you look at these 558 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:11,880 flexible, non transmitted laws and say, oh, that now in view of 559 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,080 that law, I can understand the function of this mitzvah. 560 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,520 It can't. It's flexible and it wasn't 561 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:22,000 received from from Rochelle. So that is why we we see this, 562 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,840 this, this overall, this overall system. 563 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,600 Makes a lot of sense. That's really we have this two 564 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,000 tiered system which the core aspects are are directly 565 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:36,320 revealed, perfectly transmitted, no change, no dispute, and they 566 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:40,600 embody the the core part, the function that that that God's 567 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,280 will, as we could call it, behind the law and then define 568 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,480 the details which are defined and legislated by the sages, 569 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,800 violence and hedren. They can and must be revisited 570 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,720 based on the needs of the generation, based on the logic. 571 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,000 And we do not, we say they do not necessarily reflect the 572 00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,120 divine will. They're part of it, some sort of 573 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:03,600 broader system. So you, when you mentioned 574 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,760 Christina Hayes, she has a project that the, the book What 575 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,400 is what is Divine about divine law, I think it's called. 576 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:14,720 And she is contrasting the Jewish philosophy of law with 577 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:16,640 that of the Christians and the Hellenists. 578 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,440 And she has an overall theory she's trying to, she's trying to 579 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,040 reach, which is that the the Jewish approach to law is very 580 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,040 different. It doesn't see law as 581 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:29,040 untouchable and divine as opposed to, to the Hellenist 582 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,920 view of, of, of divine laws being universal and untouchable. 583 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,760 But all of the the examples she brings to show that Jewish law 584 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,480 is flexible and can be changed and isn't seen as divine. 585 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,840 They all relate to these finer details of law. 586 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,080 As I show in my book. There are many examples where 587 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:50,120 one Tana will propose or say, well, let's, let's, let's change 588 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,800 this law. I've got a Karva Khama and says, 589 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:55,120 you could do that. I'll put you in a harem. 590 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,520 I, I excommunicate you because that is the true. 591 00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,200 That's a received tradition. That's part of it. 592 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,480 We we have discussions between between the Tanae and there's a 593 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:07,600 missionary Vermont where they're discussing about a certain sort 594 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,600 of person can convert and Shinbayokhai proposes a Carl 595 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,120 Mohammed just to to go to the law to be one way and if they 596 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:15,920 just turn around. And say to. 597 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,880 Him and say, if what you're saying is a received tradition, 598 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,199 we, we'll accept it because we can't challenge received 599 00:34:22,199 --> 00:34:24,920 tradition. And if you're just expressing a 600 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,280 received tradition as a Karl Bahama, fine, we stand back 601 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,560 because you because that came through the tradition. 602 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,520 But if you are proposing a new law by your through your logic, 603 00:34:34,679 --> 00:34:38,159 we have a, a account for Spara. We we think that we can rebut 604 00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:40,360 your suggestion. So we see that this is when 605 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,199 you're sensitive and you're aware. 606 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,239 This is why I say it. It's it's an introduction for 607 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:48,320 Talmud when you're sensitive and aware to this two tier system, 608 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,400 and we'll give some examples later on that it opens up, it 609 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,639 opens your eyes up to so much of the dynamic, the inner dynamic 610 00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:55,920 of the Talmud of what's going on there. 611 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,080 And it answers other questions as well. 612 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,840 There's a there's a long, long essay by Habot Yahir, by Yahir 613 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:07,360 Bakarach, who is really troubled by this idea of how can there be 614 00:35:07,720 --> 00:35:11,120 so much dispute and it within the Talmud. 615 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,120 How can our tradition have come down to us with so many 616 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,120 arguments? It open up the Talmud and every 617 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:20,320 every law seems to be disputed. He says well does this does this 618 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,120 undermine the transmission of the Torah? 619 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,960 How can it be? How do we know fulfilling God's 620 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,480 will or not? And he says well some well there 621 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,400 are some rabbis suggest that the Torah was was initially 622 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,880 transmitted in some pristine way and over the generations it's 623 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,160 been forgotten. But he says, well that can't be 624 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,920 because if you say so much of our law has been forgotten, How 625 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,120 can we have any trust in the tradition that's come down to us 626 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:47,040 at all. And furthermore, he says some of 627 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,760 the disputes are of a basic everyday laws, how you recite 628 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,080 the Shema and how you put on tfilin. 629 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,800 These are things which would have been carried out every day. 630 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,560 Brahat. How can people, and I understand 631 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,440 if it's a once in a year, once every few years or a rare, rare 632 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,040 alachar. Maybe people forgot it, but 633 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,320 something which was done every day, it doesn't make sense to 634 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,480 say that was forgotten. So he he's not happy with that. 635 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,720 He brings in one of the mystical approaches in the which was 636 00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:13,720 quoted in the name of the the rabbis from France. 637 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,640 That's that. I think the Rig Vah quotes it 638 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,560 the that for many of the laws, Moshe didn't just receive one 639 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:26,240 fixed Alakah, but he received multiple options, 49 ways of 640 00:36:26,240 --> 00:36:31,920 Somal, 49 ways of Tarah. He received different 641 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,120 possibilities to prohibit and to permit different. 642 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:39,840 And he says it's just this also makes a nonsense because does, 643 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,760 does God want me to eat this food or not? 644 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,320 And especially Europe and the Khalat is a is a it's a 645 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,880 capitalist. He's he's understanding that if 646 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,560 something is not coached, there's some hidden spiritual 647 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:55,680 clip out or the damaging force within it. 648 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,120 So he says, well, this just makes a nonsense of the Torah if 649 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:02,640 you take such an approach, because either there's something 650 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:04,880 damaging and and bad in that food or there isn't. 651 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,960 How can you say that both are options and the rabbis and Sahel 652 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:09,280 who can just choose between them. 653 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:10,960 What? What is the what is the function 654 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,760 of the Torah then? I mean the Rambam's two tiered 655 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:15,520 system explains this beautifully. 656 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:20,880 Because if we say that the primary divine will within each 657 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:25,800 mitzvah is the core aspect that says the Rambam was transmitted 658 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,760 perfectly, there was no in the Taberra of no dispute. 659 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,320 There can be no discussion, and only within the finer details 660 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:36,120 that any dispute can pretend. And those finer details were 661 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,360 left open and undefined and they could be disputed. 662 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,880 And that's not that the fact that the dispute does not 663 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,480 reflect any problem in the transmission of the of the 664 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,160 Torah. And it also means that you're 665 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:52,520 not worried about how it reflects God's will, because 666 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:57,120 God's will refers primarily to that core aspect which defines 667 00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,160 the main framework of the law. So that is, that is where the 668 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,480 tutored system comes in. Few points. 669 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:10,000 That I jotted down 1st regarding the mourn of Wukim Hridosh, that 670 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:15,520 you brought out to me the consistency that you see with 671 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:19,640 Arambam between all his writings, right? 672 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,800 Because you're learning his introduction to the Mishnah, 673 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,120 you're learning Mishnah Torah, and then all of a sudden you go 674 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,880 to Mourn of Wukim. And Mourn of Wukim is, is a 675 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:33,280 whole ball game on its own. And it's going into this talking 676 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,480 about prophecy and how to understand Tsukim and you know, 677 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:40,560 philosophy all. And yet you're able to see how 678 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:44,200 consistent he is that everything that he is. 679 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,560 And he wrote the introduction to the Michenel where he brings out 680 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:49,880 the points that you're mentioning when he was a young 681 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,360 boy. Mourn of Wuhim, he writes when 682 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:57,120 he was towards the latter part of his life, yet he is using 683 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,720 seamlessly with that meaning. If you wouldn't have brought 684 00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:03,440 this out, no one would have noticed, at least not to our 685 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:04,600 knowledge at least. Right. 686 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:09,000 But he's he's actually consistently taking all the 687 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,920 points he made in the introduction to the Mishnah and 688 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,320 fitting it in with with the Tamim mitzvot and more Novokhim 689 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,000 beautifully. It's like the consistency that 690 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:20,680 he has. You don't see that anywhere. 691 00:39:20,720 --> 00:39:23,520 Yeah, that's one thing which. Really appealed to me and Ali 692 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:27,040 Rumbaum is that before I started studying his work properly, I, I 693 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:29,920 said Judaism was like a, a big mishmash of, of different, 694 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,480 different, I think weird and wonderful teachings. 695 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:34,640 And you know, this teaching and that teaching. 696 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,320 No, it, it's all sort of a big mishmash floating around. 697 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,560 No idea how to structure it into any kind of system. 698 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,120 And the one thing that epically the Rumbaum's hacked, I marked 699 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:45,080 his introductions and some of his, some of his, his systems of 700 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:47,000 thought really structured Judaism for me. 701 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,520 And that's, that's, I think it's something I'm very grateful for. 702 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:50,720 It's amazing. And. 703 00:39:50,720 --> 00:39:53,960 Also, I wanted to mention regarding the Christina Hayes, 704 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,800 we love Christina Hayes when it comes to stuff like polemics and 705 00:39:58,080 --> 00:39:59,760 different things. She's she's absolutely 706 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,440 brilliant. But I think this kind of because 707 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,720 what struck me when I read with Christina Hayes is that her, her 708 00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:13,480 mistake was so fundamental here. It's so fundamental and you, 709 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,120 you, it kind of opens your eyes, the problem of trying to 710 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,320 sometimes read scholars into things like. 711 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:24,880 The fundamentals of Torah or the fundamentals of mesura, There's 712 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:28,160 there's things that are bound to be missed because they're 713 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:31,280 they're coming from the outside in it just there's, there's, I'd 714 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:33,080 say there are major. Scholars that aren't. 715 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:36,760 But yeah, it's definitely something. 716 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:38,480 I think she she the nuance she missed. 717 00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:40,720 Yeah, huge. I mean, it's fundamental that 718 00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:45,320 that's that's the problem there. I wanted to ask you, you touched 719 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,160 upon it with the Hibatiya ear. I think he brought because when 720 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:55,200 he brings the opinion that that well, I don't know if it's 721 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:59,600 necessarily this one, but the the the if I'm not mistaken in 722 00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:03,520 even though it brings the reasoning from a Chlok ET 723 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:09,960 because Loshim Shu ET Raban something they didn't they, they 724 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,440 didn't do a good job of receiving it right. 725 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,080 I believe it's quoting Gamara somewhere. 726 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,200 If I'm not mistaken, the Rambam kind of. 727 00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:21,080 Understands that Gamara. Differently. 728 00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,920 I think he touches upon it in his introduction to the Mishnah. 729 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,920 I don't remember offhand how he understands that Gamara, but he 730 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,040 says that Gamara doesn't mean that right in the introduction 731 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:31,080 to the Mishnah. Right. 732 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,720 The question is. Why they didn't, Why they 733 00:41:33,720 --> 00:41:38,200 weren't Misha Mish, Why they didn't learn sufficiently from 734 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:42,080 the say, I mean Russia, the Rambam, many people discuss it 735 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,400 and the hills of Mamarim. Also there's, there's if you 736 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,800 look at the historical context, what was going on at the time, 737 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,360 the time of Hillel and Shami, It was there was, I think it was, 738 00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,280 it was Yami and Herod. There was there was a huge 739 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,800 persecution of Torres scholars. They were sent into exile. 740 00:41:58,080 --> 00:41:59,520 They had a bunch of them were killed. 741 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:03,760 There was, there was, it was very hard to convene any kind of 742 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,840 Sanhedrin, any kind of proper yeshiva. 743 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:12,480 And therefore dispute arose and and because it wasn't resolved 744 00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:17,320 in one generation, it kept perpetuating until you ended up 745 00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,080 with many, many unresolved, unresolved cases. 746 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:24,120 So it's not, there's an aspect of it that yes, they, perhaps 747 00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,040 they weren't intellectually attunes what their teachers were 748 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:31,200 saying, but part of it very much is the historical context that 749 00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:33,120 there wasn't the rum. It's the big point of the rum 750 00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,360 bum that in order to have, to succeed intellectually, you have 751 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:40,920 to have the correct setting. And when you have huge civil 752 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:45,000 wars and you have kings who are chasing down and pursuing Torah 753 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,320 scholars to, to kill them and sending them into exile, that's 754 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,920 not, it's not going to be very easy for students to sit calmly 755 00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,680 and understand everything that their teachers are telling them. 756 00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,320 So that's the sort of time where you have the dispute 757 00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,280 proliferating. Uh huh. 758 00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:00,920 OK. So yeah, I was just wondering if 759 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:08,440 if Aarambam can can be, can it fit with with even though it's 760 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:12,480 reasoning does that do they work together or it was 761 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:17,120 forgetfulness? Yeah, it, it could be. 762 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:17,840 I don't know. I don't know. 763 00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:19,200 I don't know. I don't want to get too into 764 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:21,440 that because I didn't I didn't go through even though it 765 00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,480 properly to. No worries, no worries. 766 00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,600 One last thing I wanted to ask you before we move on to the the 767 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:35,840 next question is can you, can you get a little into Dini 768 00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:40,880 Muflaim? And how that how that? 769 00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:45,040 Goes with the two tier system. Is it a third or is it part of 770 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:50,960 the two tier So Dini? Muflaim this is This is taken 771 00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,040 from. It's a phrase that the Rambam 772 00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:55,080 writes in his introductions, Commissioner Torah. 773 00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:58,560 So this very much the the second section of the two tiered 774 00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:00,480 system. These are the laws which are 775 00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:04,600 left undefined by marsh and the deserts. 776 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,160 And we'll we'll give some examples of this a bit perhaps 777 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:08,520 later on. I've got the example, yeah. 778 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,400 And I'm trying to get. So this, so the second tier 779 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,280 you're defining in inflam is everything in that second tier. 780 00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:20,920 Yes, anything which was not heard explicitly from Muscher. 781 00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:22,760 It was not part of the written torrent and it was not part of 782 00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:27,160 the people of the parish Muqabal the the received and transmitted 783 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,480 explanation from Muscher. Those things are fixed and can't 784 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,480 change and anything else was left open and it was 785 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,360 deliberately left and left open for courts and sages to discuss 786 00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:39,120 and dispute. Does the legislate this in the 787 00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:43,400 future and to be revisited. So these are in his in his 788 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:45,480 instructions permission. He calls he calls on the Inani 789 00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,960 Nami Staragim in different works. 790 00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,240 He's got different the introduction to Misha Tari, who 791 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:54,600 personally been in humble flying these these mostly exactly how 792 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:56,520 to translate that. But the laws they're basically 793 00:44:56,520 --> 00:45:00,480 these laws which are left open and undefined specifically so 794 00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,200 that different generations and different courts could to 795 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,840 address them how they still fit. OK, so let's. 796 00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:09,440 Get into the third question. Having established that the 797 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,680 finer details of Torah law are left to the sages to derive and 798 00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:16,200 develop as you were just discussing, the listener is 799 00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:20,200 bound to be troubled by this. Can aspects of Torah law, which 800 00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,760 are derived from a close reading of the Torah's text using a 801 00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,680 system that is understood to originate from Sinai, really be 802 00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,280 viewed as independent from God's will? 803 00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:34,680 If the details that they produce do not advance the purpose of 804 00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:38,080 the commandment as you described, why then is there 805 00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:42,560 precise formulation the subject of such fierce and intricate 806 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,560 debate and extense extensive Talmudic focus? 807 00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:49,880 This is a good question, because if, like you just mentioned, 808 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:56,040 these are not necessarily part of the Divine will from the 809 00:45:56,040 --> 00:46:00,080 standpoint of how the details come out, why are they fiercely 810 00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:04,840 arguing over these so vehemently in all over the Talmud? 811 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:07,000 Right, it's. A difficult question. 812 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:11,760 It's something which which I think draws some criticism from 813 00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:15,840 from other Marao and others who don't like the Rahash somebody 814 00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,440 don't like Rahman's second tier system. 815 00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,320 And if it gets too far, they they critique this point. 816 00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:25,640 But on the other hand, it's it does explain many, many things. 817 00:46:26,240 --> 00:46:29,120 But the first point we'll say is what do we mean when something 818 00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:31,960 is God's will and not God's will? 819 00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:36,960 So I'm going to start off with a teaching for the Mesha Hokhmat 820 00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:41,120 and with Mayor Simcha Devinsk in his, in his Mesha Hokhmat at the 821 00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:46,000 start of Shafatim, I think it is, he talks about how there are 822 00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:50,720 many, a number of things we find in the Torah which can be 823 00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:54,160 considered God's will, but not directly God's will. 824 00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:59,600 For example, we have a law that we have to obey a a king, a king 825 00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:01,920 of Israel fully. David Amelath is there. 826 00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,360 There's a law that you have to follow what the king says. 827 00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:10,280 Does that mean that every tax, every every piece of landlord or 828 00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:13,200 every piece of legislation the king brings reflects God's will? 829 00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:16,080 Not necessarily. God may think that that tax 830 00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:19,520 bracket is too real, too aggressive, but the God wants 831 00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,760 you to obey the king, and therefore that becomes biblical 832 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:24,280 law. You can't rebel against the 833 00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:26,400 king. He says a similar thing when it 834 00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,000 comes to up here, Tarasha Yaruka. 835 00:47:29,720 --> 00:47:31,080 It may be a. Rabbinic law. 836 00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:34,200 The rabbis may make a certain piece of legislation, and the 837 00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,320 Torah wants the youth to obey the rabbis. 838 00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:41,000 Does that mean that God thinks necessarily that this detail of 839 00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:44,920 rabbinic law is correct? Which would God necessarily have 840 00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:47,240 wanted? That you can't necessarily state 841 00:47:47,240 --> 00:47:50,560 that God set up a system by which he wanted the King's 842 00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,960 authority to be obeyed and a system by which we wanted 843 00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:57,120 rabbinic authority to be obeyed. And we find that the famous 844 00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:00,480 Agatha with the the oven of achani, This this, this is 845 00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:02,800 reflected very strongly. And I think that is actually 846 00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:07,040 biblical law, that the case involved whether a certain oven 847 00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:12,120 which has been put together, whether this oven can become 848 00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:16,040 richly impure or not. And it's quite a complicated, 849 00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:19,720 it's definitely a detail of law. It's it's a very detailed 850 00:48:19,720 --> 00:48:23,200 discussion of a certain type of oven which can be put together 851 00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:30,560 in a certain way and Rebel Aza. And then hulkeness. 852 00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:34,200 And the rabbis are arguing back and forth and the ways they're 853 00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:36,880 pitching their garrita. Is that God's side? 854 00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:41,480 God thinks that Rebel Aza Ben Hulkeness is correct. 855 00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:45,480 And these miraculous signs seem to endorse the view of Rebel 856 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,760 Aza, but doesn't matter. Everybody has that. 857 00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:51,120 It doesn't matter that the God endorses him because the 858 00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:52,440 majority of rabbis go the other way. 859 00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:54,560 And God says it's Kulibana, you've defeated me. 860 00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:58,120 Why? That's making the point that 861 00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,840 God's general will is that the rabbis be obeyed. 862 00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:06,920 Majority of rabbis the Sanhedrin the king be obeyed the system 863 00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:11,600 that he set up be followed regardless of whether each 864 00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,720 individual law necessarily is seen to be according with his 865 00:49:14,720 --> 00:49:16,320 will. That's the starting point. 866 00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,240 And by the way, that makes a lot of sense of this concept of aid 867 00:49:19,240 --> 00:49:22,760 of aid of a like him. We say about disputes and Torah 868 00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:24,400 law. The reason they are the words of 869 00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,880 the living God. Well, if God says that if God 870 00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:32,480 wants this piece of food considers it to be non kosher 871 00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:37,320 and the rabbis have voted that it's kosher, how can both sides 872 00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:40,280 be the words that are being God? Whereas if you say God has set 873 00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:44,080 up a system and God has endorsed the system and given over the 874 00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:47,720 keys to the system, that the the forms of logic, the. 875 00:49:48,240 --> 00:49:51,600 Hermeneutical laws he's given. Over the keys to us and said you 876 00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:56,560 go ahead and as long as you are seriously pursuing in accordance 877 00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:58,360 with the system. I've given you everything you 878 00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:02,120 say in terms again in terms of these details of Torah law in 879 00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:05,120 terms of the primary core aspects in terms of the details. 880 00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:09,320 All of that can be received to reflect God's will and therefore 881 00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:12,600 we have a dispute between that's a Rabbi Shimano Rabbihuda that 882 00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:16,640 many aspects of Shabbat. Rabbi Shiman says it's permitted 883 00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:19,880 and because it's not permitted. So we'll say what according to 884 00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:21,960 one. The other one was Shabbat every 885 00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:24,560 week. No, they were both following a 886 00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:28,040 system which go which God has divinely endorsed. 887 00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:30,760 But that doesn't fully answer your question because the 888 00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:32,840 question why, why was it set up this way? 889 00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:38,240 Why do we have these these many details of the law which are so 890 00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:40,480 discussed? And if they don't really 891 00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:43,760 directly reflect God's will and the purpose of the commandments, 892 00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:47,440 and they can be changed and re legislated by, by a court, as 893 00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:50,000 Ramon says at the, I think the beginning of the second chapter 894 00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:54,280 of Philco's Marmarin, any law which a son Hedrin who rules 895 00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:58,240 upon on the basis of a drusha can be revisited and ruled the 896 00:50:58,240 --> 00:51:00,000 opposite the following generation. 897 00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:04,160 So if these things are so flexible and they don't 898 00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:09,720 necessarily reflect God's absolute will, why are they so 899 00:51:09,720 --> 00:51:11,640 intensely debated and discussed? What? 900 00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,600 Why do we get so, so worked up about it? 901 00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:16,760 And we see that Gemara definitely does get very worked 902 00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,880 up about it. So we we can't do full. 903 00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:23,000 Justice to this, this is the whole chapter four of my book, 904 00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:25,200 which it gives us a lot of sources and discussion. 905 00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:29,480 But really it gets into the the question of what is the the 906 00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,680 function of Salmon's study altogether, which is a which is 907 00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:36,880 a big topic for the Rambam. So in the end of it, the 4th 908 00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:43,240 chapter of he talks about having the, the primary religious 909 00:51:44,720 --> 00:51:48,200 director for the Rambam is to, is to gain some kind of 910 00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:53,280 intellectual connection, knowledge of God. 911 00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,360 And that's and the and the highest form of that is called 912 00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:59,400 master ratios, master America var knowledge of the of the 913 00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:04,280 forms of creation and the of how of how God runs the world, so to 914 00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:07,560 speak, through the malachim, through the celestial bodies, 915 00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,800 whatever that whatever exactly that that's understood to mean. 916 00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:14,280 But the Rommel has. A has a strong warning there, he 917 00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,080 said. Before you even start pursuing 918 00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:21,600 all of this, before you get into the the Pirodes, before you try 919 00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:25,680 to enter the Pirodes, the the esoteric knowledge, you have to 920 00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:31,520 1st align your stomach with the have a yacht of Abayan Rava with 921 00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:36,640 the the Talmudic explorations and the intricate discussions of 922 00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:38,440 Abayan Rava. And if you look at the the 923 00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:42,120 Talmudic passages, Abayan Rava typically are discussing the 924 00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:44,440 very fine minutiae of Talmudic law. 925 00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:48,160 And as. Rather of Kapak understands it, 926 00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:52,440 this the run moment is in here in the moral book and talks 927 00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,800 about how before you go into esoteric knowledge, you have to 928 00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:59,200 train your mind in various disciplines. 929 00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:06,360 Your mind has to be set up correctly and the Talmudic logic 930 00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:10,480 and going through and debating and discussing and getting 931 00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:14,680 involved in Talmudic debates. Part of the function of that is 932 00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:18,480 that it fulfils the, the, the, the rational and the logical 933 00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:20,920 debates you go through. And I, I give many examples of 934 00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:22,680 how and why this is in in the book. 935 00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:25,480 I can't get to all the sources now, but those strength and 936 00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:29,600 train your mind to be able to then approach and try to 937 00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:33,960 understand the more esoteric aspects of Judaism from a from a 938 00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,880 simpler perspective. The the party sang from the 939 00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:40,720 Rambam here, but Soloveitchik in halachic man has a has a pretty 940 00:53:40,720 --> 00:53:43,120 similar idea. He talks about how halachic man 941 00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:47,280 looks at the world and sees everything in halachic 942 00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:50,520 categories and through Talmudic logic, sees a beautiful sunset 943 00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:53,680 and is calculating the time of Shakir sees a beautiful 944 00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:57,040 waterfall and it's calculating whether that's considered a 945 00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:00,240 which type of big there it's considered basically. 946 00:54:00,240 --> 00:54:03,880 And our engagement with halacha, with the details of halacha, 947 00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:06,760 it's constant. And in the ideal system, we 948 00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:09,080 don't have to look on our to pull off a shelf to look up at 949 00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:11,120 bottom line halacha as it's supposed to be. 950 00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:13,800 We go through life and there's so many meds, odds, and there's 951 00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:16,200 so many things we are instructed to do and not to do. 952 00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:18,280 Pretty much everything we're doing, whether it's business, 953 00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:21,480 whether it's walking in the street, whether it's eating food 954 00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:26,320 on Shabbat, especially phila, we're constantly confronted with 955 00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:28,600 halachic questions. And when we're confronted with 956 00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:31,160 halachic question, we're not just looking for a dry answer. 957 00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:34,160 We have to start thinking, well, what is the Talmudic law? 958 00:54:34,240 --> 00:54:35,440 How does it apply to my situation? 959 00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:37,600 Is it similar? Is it dissimilar? 960 00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:40,600 Is that you're constantly supposed to be engaging with 961 00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,040 Talmudic logic and it's basically on your mind the whole 962 00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:46,200 time. So this training, as Raph Kapak 963 00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:52,040 puts it, that it's Talmudic logic and and discussion which 964 00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:55,880 prepares your minds for for approaching gods and the 965 00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:58,160 esoteric knowledge. It's something which is supposed 966 00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:00,080 to be on your mind constantly as you go through the day. 967 00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:05,760 I just just to give a few examples of how some of the the 968 00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:08,000 Talmudic reality, the way it approaches laws. 969 00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:12,760 Very often we find things like they're not Freya, that's 970 00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:16,560 Talmudic law looks beyond the normal idea of time, that laws 971 00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:21,240 can apply retroactively. Space and time are much less 972 00:55:21,240 --> 00:55:22,760 fixed. And these are things when you 973 00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:27,080 look in the moment of looking to try and, and, and, and esoteric 974 00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:28,840 knowledge, esoteric forms of knowledge. 975 00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:31,360 Also we, we talk about God's being beyond time. 976 00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:34,480 So there are very many aspects of Talmudic wisdom, quantity and 977 00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:37,760 quality about whether something is in the same category and 978 00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:39,720 different. It it, it's hard to really go 979 00:55:39,720 --> 00:55:43,200 into go into details here, but there are many aspects of 980 00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:49,160 Talmudic wisdom which relate which parallel some of the forms 981 00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:53,560 of mental training you're supposed to undergo in order to 982 00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:56,840 enter the paradise. Esoteric knowledge and Talmudic 983 00:55:56,840 --> 00:56:00,000 wisdom and constant engagement them through these details of 984 00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:04,320 the commandments mean that you're constantly engaging with 985 00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:07,880 them and training your mind in these in this sort of way. 986 00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:12,840 So that is why I think these details of of of of the midst 987 00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:15,120 thought, even if we say they don't necessarily reflect the 988 00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:17,800 direct divine will, it's certainly the divine will that 989 00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:21,760 we are engaging with them. And training. 990 00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:25,000 Our mind to be able to, so to speak, know God and approach the 991 00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:27,040 satirics better. So you're. 992 00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:32,440 Saying that when the Tanayim and Amorayim were debating these 993 00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:37,840 things so intensely, they were aware of the fact that they were 994 00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:43,920 in a sense, they had a, they were cognizant that these, 995 00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:52,480 these, these debates and these, these, this process was going to 996 00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:59,320 also lead them into a sort of a, also a, if we can call it a, a 997 00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:02,200 mystical element it as well that they are setting. 998 00:57:02,240 --> 00:57:05,120 There's a bright side. That those Rambam so paraphrases 999 00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:08,000 that Deval Khatzan is the havayata Baba and Ravan Deval 1000 00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:10,800 Godal, right? Great, so there's. 1001 00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:12,680 No. Reason to assume there's a 1002 00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:15,760 tariff to assume that right. So then they would have also 1003 00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:19,640 understood that these these debates and debate means Russia 1004 00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:23,120 is really setting up for something greater, right? 1005 00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:24,920 I mean this is a. Parallel to all the mystical 1006 00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:27,720 literature we talk, when you learn Torah, the Shakina comes 1007 00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:32,120 down and you connect to it and you're spiritually because 1008 00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:34,080 you're finding your mind spiritually. 1009 00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:38,680 Halachic man talks about this. I think the rum, he phrases it 1010 00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:42,000 much more in terms of be the training your mind to the end of 1011 00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:46,120 the paradise, but the basic structure of the comedic logic, 1012 00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:50,360 refining your mind, improving your mind and enabling you to 1013 00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:53,680 connect upwards and get a more divine perspective, so to speak. 1014 00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:57,240 That is that we find throughout the Jewish literature, the 1015 00:57:57,240 --> 00:58:00,960 comedic literature, the philosophers, so. 1016 00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:08,400 How does that square with the general attitude of all Sepharad 1017 00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:12,960 and of the of the Haram bam that Talmudic law should be learned 1018 00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:16,240 to arrive at Talaka? Because what you're saying right 1019 00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:18,760 now is that it's not just about arriving at Talaka. 1020 00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:21,800 Right. Definitely. 1021 00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:24,160 It's, I think it that that's again, that's a big topic. 1022 00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:27,840 It's a whole other thing. I'd love to get in that it 1023 00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:31,200 requires. Both because the problem with it 1024 00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:33,280 really needs. It needs to be a balance. 1025 00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:37,200 I think if you look at most learning before the at end of 1026 00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:41,880 the, there was no distinction between Tamutarah and studying 1027 00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:44,560 halacha. It went together typically both 1028 00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:48,520 to Sabah and Ashkenaz. They, they generally studied in 1029 00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:50,560 order to reach halacha. The Gemara did it. 1030 00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:52,920 You know, you've got all these abaya, papaya and all these 1031 00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:56,000 intricate discussions, but it was always sort of alacha. 1032 00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:59,480 And when and when there's no apparent halacha, they'll ask my 1033 00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:01,840 enough can be enough. You're you're giving me this, 1034 00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:03,400 this question, but what was the difference? 1035 00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:05,880 And there's no halachic difference that what are we 1036 00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:09,080 discussing it for? But sometimes the lucky 1037 00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:13,240 difference is so it's so fine and so it's so unlikely. 1038 00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:15,920 But as long as it is a halachic difference will take into 1039 00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:19,040 account, for example, the the halacha, the Gemara will debate 1040 00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:22,840 whether it's Kilian, whether it's a forbidden mixture for 1041 00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:29,080 leading a for applying or for leaving a carriage with a with a 1042 00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:31,920 goat and a fish which have both been harnessed. 1043 00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:33,960 These are the questions that are impractical. 1044 00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:37,960 But as long as it is a halachic Mushkamina, we will look, we 1045 00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:40,920 will discuss it. So it's really, it's two 1046 00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:46,040 functions here because on the one hand, you want to make sure 1047 00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:49,960 that that starting Halaha is supposed to be not just finding 1048 00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:53,160 out what to do, but it's a constant process of training 1049 00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:55,560 your mind because again, things weren't codified in ideal 1050 00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:58,000 states. You, you have to go back to the 1051 00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:00,640 Gomorrah, so to speak, and try and work out how to apply it to 1052 01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:02,240 your situation. So it's automatic. 1053 01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:04,560 You're involved even in trying to find out the Halaha. 1054 01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:06,640 It wasn't just a matter of quickly look at the short Kanara 1055 01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:08,120 and I've got the answer if I move on. 1056 01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:11,120 The whole process, and there's a lot of opposition for 1057 01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:13,000 Shulkanarama, Maharaul, Maharshal. 1058 01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:15,360 Many rabbis are opposed to Shulkanarak particularly for 1059 01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:18,240 this reason, because you are supposed to be involved in some 1060 01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:19,840 of the wisdom. You're supposed to go back to 1061 01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:22,560 the Gemara and try and work out what alaka is, because the 1062 01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:25,840 Gemara is the ultimate authority and you should be codifying 1063 01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:31,280 things subsequently. But there's also an aspect that 1064 01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:36,160 without salaha, and this is what something which which which I 1065 01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:39,040 discussed in in Chapter 7, which which was the result of 1066 01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:42,920 Sukhonara because you have a lot of easily codified was tamatara 1067 01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:45,160 now. So you have this whole advent of 1068 01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:50,920 pill pull which, which which in which Tamatara the Torah study 1069 01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:56,320 became completely detached from any practical rulings that would 1070 01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:58,320 not be. Considered that would not be 1071 01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:01,200 considered Avayot the avayota the rava? 1072 01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:04,200 No, because it's been attached. And it becomes almost a goal in 1073 01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:07,280 its own rights to the extent this is again the quarter of 1074 01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:10,520 Solovacic and and halachic man. He says that the the rabbi is in 1075 01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:14,560 Brisk look down upon those who are issuing practical halachic 1076 01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:17,160 rulings. And the ideal was just to study 1077 01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:21,960 Torah, to clarify legal print, abstract legal principles 1078 01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:24,800 specifically not wanting to relate it to the practical. 1079 01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:27,080 Whereas if you look at the the mission of the Gemara, the 1080 01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:30,680 Rishanim, they were all they, they saw it as it was a 1081 01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:33,760 symbiotic process. The way I put it, the halacha 1082 01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:37,480 kept the Talmudic logic grounded. 1083 01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:40,200 You are discussing these, these strange printables don't seem to 1084 01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:43,400 have any practical enough Kamena, any practical 1085 01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:45,840 application. Whereas on the other hand, the 1086 01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:48,560 fact that halacha hadn't been codified meant that even when 1087 01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:52,440 you're discussing basic halacha. You're also necessarily. 1088 01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:55,080 Involving principles and that's the basic of Tamil Torah. 1089 01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:58,440 When you look at the the the end of the first chapter of Hill 1090 01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:03,400 called Tamil Torah, the Rambam, he says that at least a third of 1091 01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:06,800 your time of of the Torah study has to be involved in Gomorrah. 1092 01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:09,440 And part of what a Gomorrah is eventually the whole day, he 1093 01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:13,320 says, should be concentrated on all of all of your Torah time. 1094 01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:15,400 But part. He says, well, what? 1095 01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:18,960 Is what is Kamara involved Madame da Vada Dava? 1096 01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:21,960 It's the logical process, comparing the method to the 1097 01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:25,280 other, looking at comparisons, looking at fine distinctions, 1098 01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:28,040 tracing methods back to their sources, applying the 1099 01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:30,840 hermeneutical laws. These are all things which train 1100 01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:35,160 the mind, and these are. This is a necessary part of the 1101 01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:39,560 tombolic process. But once these are split into 1102 01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:43,960 halacha, just getting the basic halacha putting off the shelf 1103 01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:50,040 and then this ungrounded form of Tamil Torah where it just sort 1104 01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:52,240 of goes off and it's completely unconnected to practical 1105 01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:55,040 halacha, the two systems move off and neither one is working 1106 01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:57,280 in its ideal way. And when you when you find the 1107 01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:01,840 the winner of one of the rest of Kara, first there are, there 1108 01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:04,440 were great rabbinic authorities at the time who, who were not 1109 01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:06,680 happy with him for this reason. Again, there were, it was 1110 01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:09,080 necessary because of what was going on at the time, but that's 1111 01:03:09,080 --> 01:03:10,400 a different historical discussion. 1112 01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:11,280 A beautiful. Yeah. 1113 01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:14,920 So. So the this mental processing 1114 01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:20,320 that would lead to massimer Kava or or or. 1115 01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:25,320 Higher level. It still has to be within the 1116 01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:28,160 process that leads to Allah. It's the, it's the, it's the 1117 01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:31,560 principles and the processes and everything that goes into 1118 01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:35,640 arriving at Allaha. It's not that you just gained 1119 01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:40,800 Allaha that way, but you also gained a settling of the mind or 1120 01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:44,320 a a heightening of the mind towards something hopefully 1121 01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:46,280 greater, right? It's all about. 1122 01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:49,480 Torah and mas and well, that it's ideally, it's supposed to 1123 01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:51,520 all go together. There's no distinction. 1124 01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:53,600 You look at the stories that are up by, they're walking in the 1125 01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:55,800 marketplace and this question comes up. 1126 01:03:56,080 --> 01:03:57,680 It's all, it's all, it's all lived. 1127 01:03:57,680 --> 01:03:59,360 It's it's a part of their life they're going through. 1128 01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:01,840 One of them is working in a field at the time to create 1129 01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:03,600 Shama. But these are practical 1130 01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:05,720 questions that are coming up, but they're resolving it through 1131 01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:07,560 some of the wisdom that that is the ideal. 1132 01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:09,760 It's not supposed to be this bifurcation, the system of 1133 01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:13,280 someone sitting there making a list of hell of heart and 1134 01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:15,960 someone else sitting there writing out abstract legal 1135 01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:19,240 theories. It's it's all supposed to be 11 1136 01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:22,280 organic system which we live within our life, lives in our 1137 01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:24,200 life. Yeah, got You, Beautiful. 1138 01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:27,600 Beautiful, amazing, amazing. Segment that was great and. 1139 01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:30,600 The. Last question, if you can go 1140 01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:34,960 into detail about which laws could be potentially altered. 1141 01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:41,240 So how do we? Tell which details can be 1142 01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:45,240 changed, which details in a sugiya kumara can be changed, 1143 01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:49,280 can be open to Sanhedrin revisiting in the future, and 1144 01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:53,160 which have come down from a Shah as part of the tradition which 1145 01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:56,600 we understand have been transmitted faithfully, can 1146 01:04:56,600 --> 01:04:58,880 never be revisited, can never be disputed. 1147 01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:02,640 This is the $1,000,000 question really, when when we're learning 1148 01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:06,600 a sugiya, it's, it's really important to distinguish. 1149 01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:11,520 Yet we don't have an absolute rule to tell us which laws, 1150 01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:15,520 which details belong to which. And the critical question, of 1151 01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:20,160 course, is if a sun hedron sets up tomorrow, we have a new sun 1152 01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:23,360 hedron sitting, how to buy it or wherever it would be sitting, or 1153 01:05:23,720 --> 01:05:28,760 which laws can it change? Rabbinic laws, certainly Doraita 1154 01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:30,080 laws. Well, we know St. 1155 01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:31,960 Hedrin can change certain details. 1156 01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:35,440 They can make new drashot according to Parekh Bettah. 1157 01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:39,560 But there are some things which we know are out of bounds. 1158 01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:42,840 There's a Mishnah in Yuvamot where Rabbi Shimon presents a 1159 01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:45,120 kalba hammer. And the rabbi said back to him, 1160 01:05:45,560 --> 01:05:49,120 well, if you have this via tradition, then we can't dispute 1161 01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:50,200 it. We accept it. 1162 01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:53,760 If it's a new detail that you are proposing via Kalba Hammer 1163 01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:58,200 and it's your, it's your suggestion, you've created this, 1164 01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:01,520 this, this suggestion, so we can counter it. 1165 01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:05,640 We have a logical response. So again, there are no absolute 1166 01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:10,960 guidelines that we have to know with certainty how to categorize 1167 01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:12,600 each and every law within the Talmud. 1168 01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:16,320 But in chapter 5 of Talmud Reclaimed, I go through a number 1169 01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:19,960 of very helpful guidelines, the 1st as you. 1170 01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:23,760 Mentioned at the beginning. Is how central is this detail to 1171 01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:25,680 the mitzvah? Does it relate to the basic 1172 01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:29,440 function of the mitzvah? For example, if we don't know 1173 01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:35,080 what a sukkah is, then we cannot have meaningfully at all fulfill 1174 01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:37,360 the mitzvah dwelling in a sukkah for seven days. 1175 01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:41,480 Whereas if it's a law which relates to the details of under 1176 01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:44,560 what circumstances we are mitzvah air, we are we are 1177 01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:48,160 exempt from a sukkah because the the the weather conditions are 1178 01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:52,040 too are too difficult. Certain details about that or 1179 01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:54,000 exactly what the Sahaq can be made out of. 1180 01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:57,040 So certain details which don't relate to the main functions 1181 01:06:57,040 --> 01:07:01,160 Sukkar and those are more likely to be created by the Sanhedrin 1182 01:07:01,160 --> 01:07:04,080 and revisitable and can be amended by the Sanhedrin. 1183 01:07:05,080 --> 01:07:08,800 Whereas laws which relate to the core functioning and definition 1184 01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:12,840 of the mitzvah are unlikely to be revisitable, they are likely 1185 01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:16,880 to be part of the the core transmitted and undisputable 1186 01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:17,800 part. And we're going to go through 1187 01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:20,600 some details very soon. So, so we're going to go through 1188 01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:24,240 some examples very soon. The second guideline. 1189 01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:26,400 Is whether it's explicit in the Torres text. 1190 01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:30,680 Something which is explicit in the text is unlikely to be open. 1191 01:07:30,680 --> 01:07:32,040 To. Amendment. 1192 01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:35,920 The third. Is whether we find this is an 1193 01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:39,480 important one, whether we we define whether we find clear 1194 01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:45,120 disputes over this detail within the Camara with interceptor. 1195 01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:47,520 Because as the Run mum told us at the beginning, something 1196 01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:51,600 about which there is a dispute we know cannot be part of the 1197 01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:55,880 transmitted transmission. So if we find a missioner which 1198 01:07:55,880 --> 01:07:59,320 brings different opinions on it, then we can be pretty sure that 1199 01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:02,640 it is a detail which can be revisited by the Sun Hedring. 1200 01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:06,200 This is to be distinguished from a discussion over what the 1201 01:08:06,200 --> 01:08:10,080 source is for a law. Sometimes the Gemara can know a 1202 01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:12,360 law already. And the discussion? 1203 01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:15,760 Starts and the debate starts with what is the source for this 1204 01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:17,560 law and something different asmathdat. 1205 01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:21,000 Different potential hints in the text can be suggested, but the 1206 01:08:21,000 --> 01:08:25,479 Rambam says that doesn't mean it is a detail which is disputed, 1207 01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:29,080 that the the law may be undisputed part of the 1208 01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:32,920 transmission and the stage is just discussing where best to 1209 01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:35,760 find a hint to it in the text. So if it's a genuine dispute 1210 01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:40,080 over what a law is, that is indicative of the fact that it 1211 01:08:40,080 --> 01:08:42,000 is not part of the transmitted tradition. 1212 01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:44,680 It is something which was developed and legislated by a 1213 01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:47,800 Sanhedrin. Another. 1214 01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:52,399 Important guideline is whether it appears in the Tanakh and how 1215 01:08:52,399 --> 01:08:56,960 it appears in the Tanakh. For example, the mitzvah boom as 1216 01:08:56,960 --> 01:08:58,640 it came to us through the Mishnah. 1217 01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:02,560 It is specifically. A brother-in-law of the deceased 1218 01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:04,680 who could perform the mitzvah of Yubum with the wife of the 1219 01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:09,520 deceased or yubum or Khaliza. But if we look back in Tanakh, 1220 01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:14,200 we find episodes of Yuhuda and Tamar, we find episodes of bars 1221 01:09:14,200 --> 01:09:17,840 and roots. And there yubum is is relevant. 1222 01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:20,399 It's being performed or suggested to be performed by 1223 01:09:20,399 --> 01:09:22,560 father-in-law by more distant relatives. 1224 01:09:22,960 --> 01:09:26,880 So the Ramban and his commentary to to the relevant passage, 1225 01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:30,439 Nabaishlakh says, well, we can look at the, the Tarak, we can 1226 01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:33,200 look at the, the, the stories that have come to us these 1227 01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:35,279 episodes. And it's clear that that the 1228 01:09:35,279 --> 01:09:40,479 Kadamanim, the earliest sages, interpreted the Torah more 1229 01:09:40,479 --> 01:09:41,560 loosely. And they said, well, 1230 01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:47,479 brother-in-law is just one prime example, maybe the ideal example 1231 01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:49,040 of who should perform with Savi yabum. 1232 01:09:49,240 --> 01:09:51,160 But in the absence of a brother-in-law, it would seem 1233 01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:55,320 that other relatives can also perform yabum, that seems. 1234 01:09:55,320 --> 01:09:58,240 To be how the. Earliest stages interpreted this 1235 01:09:58,240 --> 01:10:02,040 nitzvah according to Ramban Nahmadis, whereas by the time we 1236 01:10:02,040 --> 01:10:05,560 get to the Mishnah that had been narrowed down and the law as it 1237 01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:07,800 came to us in a mission that is that specifically a 1238 01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:10,400 brother-in-law performs Yibim and no other relative. 1239 01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:14,360 And finally, there's this. Very interesting suggestion by 1240 01:10:14,360 --> 01:10:17,600 someone called Rabbi Gottlieb Fischer, who's quoted in the 1241 01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:20,320 collective writings of Ruparsh. I don't know a lot about this 1242 01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:24,720 Rabbi Fischer, but he suggests that when you have a law which 1243 01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:28,080 is counter intuitive, it, it doesn't seem logical to us in 1244 01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:30,400 any way. We don't understand why any 1245 01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:34,080 court, like any Sanhedrin would have instituted a law like this. 1246 01:10:34,360 --> 01:10:37,200 That could be indicative of the fact that it is a tradition 1247 01:10:37,200 --> 01:10:41,000 which came down from Moshe. It's something which maybe it's 1248 01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:42,480 a bit of a hog. We don't understand the exact 1249 01:10:42,480 --> 01:10:45,240 reason for it, but it's a it is a tradition that came to us from 1250 01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:48,360 Moshe because we just cannot imagine why a court would have 1251 01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:52,360 legislated this. And the example he gives is of 1252 01:10:52,360 --> 01:10:55,440 Molech. Molech is some. 1253 01:10:55,440 --> 01:10:59,520 Kind of idolatrous ceremony in which the a person passes a 1254 01:10:59,520 --> 01:11:02,200 child through fire. There's a dispute whether the 1255 01:11:02,320 --> 01:11:05,280 the child dies in the process or just passed through fire. 1256 01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:09,640 And the Torah takes this very seriously and legislates a death 1257 01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:13,880 sentence for a father who passes his children through this Molech 1258 01:11:14,760 --> 01:11:17,360 ceremony. Except there's a there's a 1259 01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:19,920 strange exception. The password says that someone 1260 01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:24,680 who passes a mizzara from his children to Molech and the 1261 01:11:25,200 --> 01:11:27,000 Gomorrah reads this very literally. 1262 01:11:27,280 --> 01:11:31,800 And mizzara the local Zara. Only someone who passes some of 1263 01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:35,800 his children through Molech gets the death penalty, but not 1264 01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:40,160 someone who passes all of his children through Moloch. 1265 01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:43,760 And it's counter intuitive. If someone has passed some 1266 01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:46,400 children and they get the death penalty, so they thought even 1267 01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:49,920 more so if they pass all their children through Moloch, they 1268 01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:51,280 should certainly get the death penalty. 1269 01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:54,640 It's counter intuitive, yet it's the law. 1270 01:11:55,160 --> 01:11:57,880 So Rob Fischer says, well something like that, we can't 1271 01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:01,480 imagine why any Sun Hedren would have made such a legislation. 1272 01:12:01,480 --> 01:12:03,200 Therefore it is indicative of the fact that it is. 1273 01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:05,920 It's some kind of Sinaitic tradition which we've lost the 1274 01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:09,480 reason for. So take it or leave it. 1275 01:12:09,480 --> 01:12:11,440 That's that was an interesting suggestion. 1276 01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:15,120 So those are those are the the guidelines which I present and I 1277 01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:17,200 go through in more detail in the book. 1278 01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:22,680 Let's now conclude with a fascinating example of how to 1279 01:12:22,720 --> 01:12:26,520 apply these principles, these guidelines when looking at a 1280 01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:28,360 sugya. And we're going to take a 1281 01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:31,480 mitzvah of Kriyat Shama, which is something, the popular 1282 01:12:31,480 --> 01:12:34,000 mitzvah, I guess we do, we do it a couple of times a day. 1283 01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:37,920 And as we know, the halacha is the Kriyat. 1284 01:12:37,920 --> 01:12:41,320 Shamar is a Torah law. It is Doraita. 1285 01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:45,280 And that seems pretty. Straightforward, except when you 1286 01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:52,440 look at the Gamaran Sehat Brahat and Daf Allaf page 21, we find a 1287 01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:55,480 very confusing little discussion there. 1288 01:12:55,560 --> 01:13:00,640 Omar of you Hoda of you hoda teachers that if one is in doubt 1289 01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:04,200 as to whether one has performed the mitzvah, 1 does not go back 1290 01:13:04,200 --> 01:13:05,840 and do it again. Why? 1291 01:13:06,240 --> 01:13:11,120 Because it is a rabbinic law. What do you mean? 1292 01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:20,680 It's a rabbinic law? It's you have to recite these 1293 01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:23,880 words when you go to bed and when you wake up straight off. 1294 01:13:24,120 --> 01:13:27,880 What do you mean create Shama drop on on the Shakukhav 1295 01:13:27,880 --> 01:13:30,800 Kamerkha Kitiv? The Torah states that you must 1296 01:13:30,800 --> 01:13:34,320 recite these words in the evening when you go to bed and 1297 01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:37,800 in the morning when you get up. No abaya. 1298 01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:40,600 Responds. I hope it's very tortive. 1299 01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:44,920 That's requirement that kabalment is only discussing 1300 01:13:45,400 --> 01:13:47,680 general recitation of Torah passages. 1301 01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:50,640 It is not specific to create Shama. 1302 01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:54,600 So stop and and think about this for a minute. 1303 01:13:56,320 --> 01:13:59,120 According. To the the guidelines that 1304 01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:03,160 Rambam gave us, if there's a matter of dispute among the 1305 01:14:03,160 --> 01:14:06,320 sages, that is indicative of something which was not 1306 01:14:06,320 --> 01:14:09,880 transmitted through the generations from Sinai, but 1307 01:14:09,880 --> 01:14:13,520 something which was developed at some point by a Sanhedrin. 1308 01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:17,520 Which would imply. The mitzvah create Shema if 1309 01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:21,800 there can be a dispute as to whether it is rabbinic or Torah 1310 01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:24,080 law. The the the. 1311 01:14:24,080 --> 01:14:28,080 Mitzvah or some part of the mitzvah would not is is not 1312 01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:32,080 going to be transmitted through the through through the through 1313 01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:35,000 the airs. However, what we do? 1314 01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:37,920 Find is that everyone accepts that it's some kind of mitzvah 1315 01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:42,440 here of devetorocative. So there are different layers to 1316 01:14:42,440 --> 01:14:48,440 this mitzvah if you just go and read basic prashant in the pasuk 1317 01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:53,640 with the barter barman and you've got to discussing words 1318 01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:56,680 of Torah when you're sitting at home, when you're walking in the 1319 01:14:56,680 --> 01:14:59,400 streets in the morning, in the evening. 1320 01:15:00,840 --> 01:15:03,080 Basic. Is just telling you to be. 1321 01:15:03,080 --> 01:15:05,120 Involved with words of Torah the whole time. 1322 01:15:05,480 --> 01:15:09,880 Whenever you have free time, use it to be discussing or reciting 1323 01:15:09,880 --> 01:15:12,720 words of Torah. However. 1324 01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:15,920 It seems to be accepted by everyone within that discussion 1325 01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:18,560 in the Gomorrah that there is some kind of positive 1326 01:15:18,560 --> 01:15:22,000 commandment which relates specifically to the words of the 1327 01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:26,240 Shahbaka of Kamerha in the evening when you go, when you 1328 01:15:26,240 --> 01:15:28,680 lie down of Kamerha, and in the morning when you rise up. 1329 01:15:29,280 --> 01:15:33,600 So that would seem to be a Pirushma Kabal a a transmitted 1330 01:15:34,120 --> 01:15:37,920 law and interpretation from Moshe which is unanimously 1331 01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:40,280 accepted. There is some specific means 1332 01:15:40,280 --> 01:15:43,280 that I say Torah obligation to recite. 1333 01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:47,200 Some words of. Torah in the evening, in the 1334 01:15:47,200 --> 01:15:51,280 morning. But beyond that, the identity of 1335 01:15:51,320 --> 01:15:54,080 these words of Torah that you have to recite seems to be a 1336 01:15:54,080 --> 01:15:58,720 matter of dispute. I thought this was a little. 1337 01:15:58,720 --> 01:16:01,560 Bit radical when I first developed these ideas and I 1338 01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:05,120 looked up the the pinea Shoah and the Sugyan and Brahat and 1339 01:16:05,120 --> 01:16:08,960 the shagat Aria, the start of his his first Simon. 1340 01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:15,080 They all say similar things that initially there was a general a 1341 01:16:15,120 --> 01:16:18,720 requirement, biblical commandments just to recite some 1342 01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:21,240 words of Torah in the morning and in the evening. 1343 01:16:21,400 --> 01:16:24,240 It seems to be the basic function of this commandment as 1344 01:16:24,240 --> 01:16:27,880 it came from Ushah was just a bookend your day within Torah. 1345 01:16:28,120 --> 01:16:31,600 If the morning when you when you wake up, you're exciting words 1346 01:16:31,600 --> 01:16:35,040 of Torah, the evening before you go to bed you're exciting words 1347 01:16:35,040 --> 01:16:37,840 of Torah. Somehow encasing your day within 1348 01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:41,000 Torah influences everything else that goes on within, even if 1349 01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:42,800 you're having to spend time doing other things in the 1350 01:16:42,800 --> 01:16:45,360 interim. Everything is being influenced 1351 01:16:45,360 --> 01:16:48,160 and is bookended within words of Torah, and that seems to be the 1352 01:16:48,160 --> 01:16:51,600 basic function of the mitzvah as it came from Usher. 1353 01:16:51,640 --> 01:16:54,440 And that is undisputed. Everyone agrees there is such 1354 01:16:54,440 --> 01:16:58,680 some such a mitzvah to recite some words of Torah morning and 1355 01:16:58,680 --> 01:17:02,200 evening. However, that is not the mitzvah 1356 01:17:02,200 --> 01:17:05,400 as it came to us today, and it would seem that at some point, 1357 01:17:05,720 --> 01:17:08,720 perhaps it is seen during the second MC Dash era, as we'll 1358 01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:12,320 discuss in a moment. The Sanhedrin looked around and 1359 01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:16,840 they saw one minute. There's a bit of a weakening in 1360 01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:19,840 the Kabalat al Mahut Shamayim in the accepting the yoke of 1361 01:17:19,840 --> 01:17:21,920 heaven, in the recognizing the unity of God. 1362 01:17:22,240 --> 01:17:26,160 And we have to emphasize that. And therefore they use their 1363 01:17:26,440 --> 01:17:29,520 legislative power on a biblical level. 1364 01:17:30,880 --> 01:17:33,080 Recording for Al Ahad the. Creature managed to write out on 1365 01:17:33,080 --> 01:17:35,320 a biblical level. The sun had driven therefore 1366 01:17:35,320 --> 01:17:40,240 narrowed down the previously open mitzvah of the Shahbukhar 1367 01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:44,640 Kamerkhad, reciting words of Torah to require us to recite, 1368 01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:49,680 specifically the sukim of Shamayi Shamalakaya and the 1369 01:17:49,680 --> 01:17:53,280 subsequent paragraphs. So after. 1370 01:17:53,560 --> 01:17:58,200 That legislation was made. We can now no longer fulfill the 1371 01:17:58,200 --> 01:18:01,840 mitzvah of the Shah of Kamerkha by reciting any passage of 1372 01:18:01,840 --> 01:18:05,000 Torah, only those specific ones that Sanhedrin have required. 1373 01:18:05,480 --> 01:18:09,360 Not that this is a a transmitted tradition to recite Shamai 1374 01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:11,600 Sorrell. The transmitted tradition was to 1375 01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:14,440 recite words of Torah and the function was the Book, End of 1376 01:18:14,440 --> 01:18:17,680 day with Torah. The Sanhedrin, as we discussed 1377 01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:20,560 at the beginning of this session, recognizing the 1378 01:18:20,560 --> 01:18:24,840 spiritual needs of the generation, then narrowed down 1379 01:18:24,840 --> 01:18:29,280 the mitzvah and required specifically the sukim of OL 1380 01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:33,080 Mahut Shamaim. So and then. 1381 01:18:33,080 --> 01:18:37,680 We find in another generation in the famous passage in the 1382 01:18:37,680 --> 01:18:43,720 Haggadah, Rabbilazabenazaria says well, he wanted to add the 1383 01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:46,160 third paragraph of Shama to the Itziat Mitzraim. 1384 01:18:46,200 --> 01:18:50,560 He wanted that to be recited at night and he only managed to 1385 01:18:50,600 --> 01:18:53,360 succeed in having that instituted when Ben Zommar came 1386 01:18:53,360 --> 01:18:58,000 with his drashar Kolymer Kayeka. So again the created the mitzvah 1387 01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:00,280 of Shah Haq Mehra grew another time. 1388 01:19:01,120 --> 01:19:04,800 So what we see here is the where we see where the Mahloquet is 1389 01:19:04,800 --> 01:19:08,440 within the sugya Mahloquet is not whether there's a mitzvah 1390 01:19:08,440 --> 01:19:14,040 altogether, but whether but the identity, identity of the of the 1391 01:19:14,040 --> 01:19:16,400 mitzah of which passages have to be recited. 1392 01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:19,840 That is a matter of Mahloquet. And once you're aware of these 1393 01:19:19,960 --> 01:19:24,680 two different categories within DNA Doraita, within Toro law, 1394 01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:29,400 those those central core parts which have been transmitted 1395 01:19:29,680 --> 01:19:32,240 through the generations, which can never be disputed, never be 1396 01:19:32,240 --> 01:19:37,480 discussed and the finer details which can be subject to change 1397 01:19:37,480 --> 01:19:39,440 now. When we look. 1398 01:19:39,440 --> 01:19:42,000 Around Once we're aware of this, it opens up our eyes to many 1399 01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:45,400 things. For example, the bracha we say 1400 01:19:45,400 --> 01:19:49,720 over Kriadshama, it's not al mitzvat Kriyat Shamar, it's not 1401 01:19:49,720 --> 01:19:53,360 al al Kabarat, al Mohit Shamar or anything like that. 1402 01:19:53,360 --> 01:19:58,200 No, it's all to do with Tamil Torah, to the extent that in 1403 01:19:58,200 --> 01:20:01,680 some situations, if you haven't said the blessings of a Torah 1404 01:20:01,680 --> 01:20:05,280 study, but you have. Said that. 1405 01:20:05,400 --> 01:20:10,280 You don't go back and say the of of Barakatara again. 1406 01:20:10,280 --> 01:20:13,920 And if you look at the details, what do we say in the bracha 1407 01:20:13,920 --> 01:20:17,880 over Kriyaksima Arcana shaman arcane of Kameno? 1408 01:20:18,440 --> 01:20:25,440 It's all about Tamil Torah. And we understand. 1409 01:20:25,440 --> 01:20:28,760 These, these brachots, these blessings over Kriyaksima were 1410 01:20:28,760 --> 01:20:32,040 instituted by the Unshakenessen Agadola, the men of the Great 1411 01:20:32,040 --> 01:20:35,040 Assembly at the start of the 2nd Mikdash. 1412 01:20:35,080 --> 01:20:40,400 It would seem that that the the mitzvah was still undefined. 1413 01:20:40,400 --> 01:20:42,760 It was open to recite any passage of Torah. 1414 01:20:43,280 --> 01:20:47,000 The mitzvah was just to recite words of Torah morning and 1415 01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:49,240 evening, to bookend our day with Torah. 1416 01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:53,400 And that was fine. And the Brahar instituted by the 1417 01:20:53,400 --> 01:20:55,240 AL Sheikh Nisargadala reflected that. 1418 01:20:55,680 --> 01:20:58,560 And when at some stage, presumably in Bayat Cheney in 1419 01:20:58,560 --> 01:21:01,920 the Second Temple era, the Sun Hedron came and narrowed down 1420 01:21:02,480 --> 01:21:06,280 the law to refer to specifically to create Shamar, they didn't 1421 01:21:06,360 --> 01:21:09,280 want to go and change the the blessings which had been 1422 01:21:09,280 --> 01:21:10,800 instituted by the Anshek. And so the data. 1423 01:21:12,360 --> 01:21:14,880 So this is their prime example. Of. 1424 01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:21,360 How awareness and sensitivity to these principles is is really 1425 01:21:21,360 --> 01:21:23,840 opens up one's eyes. 11 learns the Sukhyat. 1426 01:21:24,040 --> 01:21:26,800 And again, it's going to be of prime importance one day. 1427 01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:29,440 Please God, when we have a Sanhedrin again and we want to 1428 01:21:29,440 --> 01:21:33,120 know well which details of Torah law can the Saint Hedrin 1429 01:21:33,120 --> 01:21:35,960 revisit? So we will know that, for 1430 01:21:35,960 --> 01:21:38,680 example, St. Hedrin can go and change the 1431 01:21:38,960 --> 01:21:44,120 details of which passages of Torah are cited to create 1432 01:21:44,120 --> 01:21:45,960 Shamar. They could say, well, we're 1433 01:21:45,960 --> 01:21:49,240 pretty good on all Mahatma now, but we're not very good on after 1434 01:21:49,240 --> 01:21:51,920 air hakamariko, so let's go recite some passages of Torah 1435 01:21:51,920 --> 01:21:54,280 relate to that. And if they redefine that, then 1436 01:21:54,280 --> 01:21:56,200 now on the Torah law, we would have to say those passages 1437 01:21:56,200 --> 01:21:59,600 instead all as well. But Sanhedrin could never come 1438 01:21:59,600 --> 01:22:02,640 on and say, well, the mitzvah of the Shah will have Kamerkhar. 1439 01:22:02,840 --> 01:22:04,400 We don't think that's that's relevant anymore. 1440 01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:09,080 We're we're going to instead have a mitzvah of because the 1441 01:22:09,080 --> 01:22:12,600 Shah will have Kamerkhar seems to be an undisputed soniatic 1442 01:22:12,600 --> 01:22:16,760 tradition which came down to us and therefore it could never be 1443 01:22:16,760 --> 01:22:18,440 changed and it can never. Be. 1444 01:22:18,640 --> 01:22:23,200 Debated, amended or disputed. Thank you so, so much for this 1445 01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:26,240 opportunity for having me on your podcast. 1446 01:22:26,400 --> 01:22:28,840 I've really enjoyed it and I've hope, I really hope that all the 1447 01:22:28,840 --> 01:22:30,680 listeners have as well. Thank you. 1448 01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:37,040 Absolutely incredible. You know, when we started this 1449 01:22:37,040 --> 01:22:39,560 podcast, we said that we want this podcast to be about 1450 01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:42,560 fundamentals. Your book personifies our 1451 01:22:42,560 --> 01:22:44,800 podcast because this is all about fundamentals. 1452 01:22:45,600 --> 01:22:50,480 Really and truly incredible. Thank you so much, wishing you 1453 01:22:50,480 --> 01:22:55,040 success in all your future endeavors and we hope to speak 1454 01:22:55,040 --> 01:22:59,440 to you about this book, hopefully maybe do a Part 2 1455 01:22:59,600 --> 01:23:03,640 covering some other parts which are extremely important, but 1456 01:23:03,680 --> 01:23:06,680 really and truly the fundamentals that you discussed 1457 01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:11,760 tonight are are are fundamental. Thank you very, very much. 1458 01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:13,080 Thank you for giving me the opportunity. 1459 01:23:13,080 --> 01:23:15,000 To to share. This with our listeners and I 1460 01:23:15,040 --> 01:23:17,160 look forward to further opportunities in the future.