1 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:25,440 Music. Thank you for joining the 2 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,040 Judaism Demystified podcast. We're honored to have Doctor 3 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,880 Roslyn Weiss with us. Can you give us a a little bit 4 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:37,040 of a brief overview on the Rishon Haste Crescas we are 5 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:38,800 doing this series? This is the second episode in 6 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,880 the series of getting to know the Rishonim. 7 00:00:42,160 --> 00:00:44,760 And before you even get into that, we would like to know a 8 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:46,800 little bit about you and your book. 9 00:00:47,160 --> 00:00:51,640 So please take it away. OK. 10 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:53,520 Thank you very much for having me. 11 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:58,120 I feel quite honored to be here. I've looked at the list of 12 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,200 distinguished guests you've had and I, I feel very flattered to 13 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:03,320 be among them. Our pleasure. 14 00:01:05,519 --> 00:01:08,880 Thank you. So I'll tell you a little bit 15 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:13,600 about myself. I'm have have a Modern Orthodox 16 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:18,080 background. I'm going to Yeshiva Flatbush 17 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,440 High School. That's where I learned my Hebrew 18 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:24,880 that I still rely on today. I could never have translated 19 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,920 this light of the Lord had I not gone to Yeshiva Flatbush High 20 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:30,120 School. That's all I can say. 21 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:34,240 That was also my first introduction to Jewish 22 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:38,480 philosophy. So I I have yet another debt to 23 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,960 Yeshiva Flatbush and Doctor Joel Wallowski, who was my math 24 00:01:41,960 --> 00:01:45,800 teacher but nevertheless also taught Jewish philosophy. 25 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:49,680 I I went to Brooklyn College as an undergraduate. 26 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:52,600 My parents wouldn't let me leave home. 27 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:58,280 So I went to Brooklyn College as an undergraduate and after after 28 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:02,600 college, I went to Columbia, got my PhD at Columbia. 29 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:08,000 My field was Plato and for most of my career I wrote about 30 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,680 Plato. I have four books on Plato. 1/5 31 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:12,520 coming out in July. We. 32 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,680 Might have to have you on for. That though I'm a big I'm. 33 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:21,000 A big Plato fan. Yeah, Plato, right. 34 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:23,840 I will check those out. Yeah, if I couldn't, if I 35 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:28,400 couldn't do Jewish studies, which is just not a field when I 36 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:33,680 was an undergraduate, you know, I'm just glad that I ended up 37 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:35,840 doing Plato. He's just, he's been a 38 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:41,640 wonderful, a wonderful companion my whole life also. 39 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,920 And I think the only really interesting thing about my 40 00:02:44,920 --> 00:02:49,880 biography is that after I got a PHDI went back to school and sat 41 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:54,120 on the other end of the teacher's desk and got a 42 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,160 master's in Jewish studies from Baltimore, Hebron University. 43 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:03,280 And that gave me some sense of, of Jewish philosophy in greater 44 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,440 depth. And I began teaching Jewish 45 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,400 philosophy and writing about Jewish philosophy alongside my 46 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:12,560 interest in Plato. OK, so I think that's enough 47 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,040 about me. So I would go on and tell you a 48 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:19,840 little bit about Crescas. He had a very important life, 49 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,680 very, very important contributions. 50 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:29,000 He was born in 1340 in Barcelona to a a very distinguished family 51 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:35,240 of rabbis and merchants, and he attended a a kind of modern 52 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:41,120 yeshiva where he studied not only the typical Tanakh and and 53 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,720 Talmud, but he also studied science and philosophy and 54 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:50,240 Kabbalah. He this his, his, it was the 55 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:56,640 Shiva of the run and his good friends were Ribos and Rashbots, 56 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:58,120 you know. So he had very distinguished 57 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,960 friends and he was the teacher of the very famous Halachus 58 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:08,640 Joseph Albo. He had a, an interesting life. 59 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:13,280 He was arrested at one point with with his friends and it was 60 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:15,920 a trumped up charge. I read somewhere that it was the 61 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:21,000 Jewish community that that started it but I'm not sure and 62 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:23,600 it was eventually. He was eventually released with 63 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:28,400 his friends. After the death of Pedro the 4th 64 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:34,760 and the ascent of Juan the first of Aragon, he was invited to 65 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:40,920 move to Saragosa and he was appointed Chief Rabbi by by this 66 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:45,280 Juan the 1st and his his wife violent debar. 67 00:04:45,280 --> 00:04:51,280 They were supporters of culture of, of the arts sciences and 68 00:04:51,280 --> 00:04:55,120 they revered him and they, they appointed him to this very 69 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:59,640 important position and he lived there the rest of his life in 70 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:04,240 Zaragoza. He had a hard life in in that he 71 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:10,360 experienced the the horrific program of 1391 and he wrote 72 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:12,560 about it. So among the things that he 73 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:17,520 wrote was a letter to the Jews of Avignon right after the 74 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,080 horrible pogrom. And it's very important 75 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:24,040 document. It documents all the cities that 76 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,400 were affected by the pogrom. It documents how many people 77 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:32,880 converted, how many people were were killed Al Qedushashim were 78 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,520 were martyred for the sake of of God's name. 79 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:41,120 He tells us that it was the intellectuals who were the first 80 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:46,160 to convert rather than die, to choose conversion over death 81 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:50,720 because they believe that the way to God is through the 82 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,400 intellect. So how important could it be of 83 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:57,520 which religion you adhere to? So that that was a a kind of 84 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:01,840 shocking and and frightening thing that that I read in that 85 00:06:01,840 --> 00:06:05,320 letter. He also tells about the the 86 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:10,120 giants of Talmud, the the great Rabbis, the Cedars of Lebanon, 87 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:14,400 as he called them, who adhere to the faith and and met their 88 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,920 death. Women in particular were were 89 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,960 martyred, chose to die rather than to convert in several of 90 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:26,120 the cities. And tragically, he lost his only 91 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:30,440 son. His his patrons, the Juan the 92 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:34,400 1st and the Alante bar were able to protect the Jews of Saragosa, 93 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,240 but they were not able to protect the Jews of other 94 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,520 cities. And his son who lived in 95 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:41,600 Barcelona at the time he was killed. 96 00:06:41,840 --> 00:06:44,000 So this was a tragic event of his life. 97 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,000 So that was the first thing that he wrote was, was this this 98 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,280 letter to the the Jews of Avignon telling them about 99 00:06:51,280 --> 00:06:56,840 chronicling really this horrific pogrom. 100 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:01,880 It was a terrible time. They had those who converted to 101 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,880 Christianity were vicious in in their anti-Semitism. 102 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:12,320 There was a horrible Christian preacher named Ferran Martinez, 103 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,960 who was like the father Cochran of our of the 1930s. 104 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:19,800 I mean, just somebody vicious and it was a terrible time. 105 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,680 What can I say? So after after that and and the 106 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:27,960 death of his son, he wrote several other books. 107 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:29,360 Well, actually three other books. 108 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:36,080 One was in 1398, he wrote a book called A Refutation of the 109 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,040 Christian Principles. That's an interesting book 110 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,520 because it was the only thing he wrote in Catalan instead of in 111 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,280 Hebrew. And it seems therefore, that he 112 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,720 was addressing people whose Hebrew was weak or non existent, 113 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:54,080 probably those who converted rather than rather than dying in 114 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,240 the pogrom. And he was trying to bring them 115 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:57,960 back. And he wrote in Catalan. 116 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:03,680 It was translated into Hebrew not long after, but the person 117 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,440 who translated also put a lot of his own thoughts into it. 118 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,360 So we're not exactly sure how much of it is is actually 119 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:13,400 Crescas and how much is this Joseph Ibincento's work. 120 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,680 The next thing that he wrote is something that we didn't even 121 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:24,400 know was his until the 1980s. It's it's we, we call it the 122 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:28,640 Passover sermon, though it it doesn't have a title per SE, and 123 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,760 it's the only halachic work we have of crescas. 124 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,799 It's about Pesach. It's about the beginning of the 125 00:08:36,799 --> 00:08:42,159 book of the beginning of this work is about miracles. 126 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,400 How persuasive are miracles, what kinds of miracles, the 127 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,120 relationship between Pesach and Shavuot. 128 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:49,960 It's a very, very interesting book. 129 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,040 And the second part of it is the halachic part. 130 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,840 And Crescas believed that before you talk about halacha, you have 131 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,480 to you have to talk about theory. 132 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:04,080 There has to be understanding that precedes, precedes the 133 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,680 action. So, so it's a very nice book. 134 00:09:06,680 --> 00:09:09,840 It's in two parts. And we know that he was a great 135 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,760 halachist and that he answered response, you know, he wrote 136 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,880 responsa to the Jews of Spain at least. 137 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,520 But we don't have any of that surviving. 138 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,160 We know from Joseph Alba who talks about things that he had 139 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:31,640 learned from Crescas who was his teacher and his his major work 140 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,560 is of course, Light of the Lord, which he wrote towards the end 141 00:09:34,560 --> 00:09:38,760 of his life. He died in 1410 or 1411 and he 142 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,200 wrote it over many years. There are changes that you can 143 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:44,920 detect as you read the book. You know, this was written later 144 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,600 or earlier. It's a little bit out of order 145 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:52,400 possibly. And it's it's just an incredible 146 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,400 book. It was meant to be the first 147 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:01,160 part of A2 volume work, but the second volume was never written. 148 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:05,880 And the second volume was supposed to be an improvement on 149 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:07,840 on the Rambam's mission of Torah. 150 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,440 The way this was this first part, Light of the Lord was 151 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:15,120 supposed to be an improvement on the Maimonides Guide. 152 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,440 So yes. So he, but he. 153 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,800 Set out to write a law code. Yes. 154 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:23,640 Wow. Yeah. 155 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:28,800 So he set out, he, he wanted to write, he had many objections to 156 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:33,240 the Mishnah Torah. He, he thought Maimonides should 157 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:37,520 have cited his sources, that he should have also cited the 158 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:41,320 disagreements between the, the, his, the authorities, the, the 159 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:43,800 sages in the Tomlin, which he didn't do. 160 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,840 And most importantly, he didn't give us principles. 161 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:53,400 He gave us a sock, but he didn't give us the principle behind 162 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,360 them sock. So one doesn't know in a new 163 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,320 case what to do. One only knows what to do in 164 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:02,200 this particular case. And from Crescas's point of 165 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:06,960 view, the the mission Toro is finite, yet the details of 166 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,880 halacha are infinite. So what we need is principles 167 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:13,960 and not up sock right which? He wouldn't have considered, he 168 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,880 wouldn't have considered the shirashim of the Seifa mitzvot 169 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:22,080 as a sort of principles. No, but he's, he's was looking 170 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,880 for halachic principles and his principles that you could apply 171 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,320 to new halachic cases that arise. 172 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,120 Specifically with new halacha. Right, So we, we didn't get his 173 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:35,200 reasoning wasn't clear like, so we, we don't know how to think 174 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,760 about the case, a new case that would arise. 175 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,600 And if someone would disagree with him, we wouldn't know on 176 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,520 what basis to choose what he said over what somebody else 177 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,600 said, because we, we didn't understand what was going on 178 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,880 behind it. So unfortunately, he, he never 179 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,120 got to write that second part of, of his book. 180 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,920 He, he died after finishing the light of the Lord. 181 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:05,000 So that that's an unfortunate occurrence, but light of the 182 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:09,680 Lord is is just a a masterpiece. I don't think anyone who's 183 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:13,480 studied it could say anything less about it than that it's a 184 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,440 masterpiece. The English speaking world is 185 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:20,400 indebted to you greatly because you, you know, took on this big 186 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,400 project and, you know, we, we, we really want to, you know, 187 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,920 revive interest in these important figures who kind of 188 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,800 been lost in history. I'm just curious what initial 189 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:36,480 what initially drew you to light of the Lord and what challenges 190 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:40,320 did you face in capturing the philosophical nuances in 191 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:42,760 English? Right. 192 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:46,640 So this is, you know, one of these stories where you kind of 193 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:51,000 fall into something without really having thought it through 194 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:55,160 adequately. I I when I was a a professor, 195 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:59,640 when I was teaching, I often took a court courses from other 196 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:05,080 professors, both to improve my own teaching and just to see how 197 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,800 how else something else the same thing I teach might be taught 198 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:13,800 and also to learn new things. I took a course with a professor 199 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:21,480 Daniel Reinhold from from Yu. It was a course on free will and 200 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:25,240 Jewish thought so sound like a very interesting course. 201 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:30,040 And I I enjoy taking courses from other people, even as I was 202 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:37,280 myself. And in that course we came upon 203 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,840 him. But I didn't know much about 204 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,000 him. And this was my first serious 205 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:49,920 exposure to Hasta Crescas. And what I read about his view 206 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:54,160 of free will was so astonishing that I thought, wow, you know, I 207 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,600 would really like to teach Kasai Kreskas in my Jewish philosophy 208 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,320 class. So I thought, if, if what he 209 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:02,280 says about free will is so interesting, he must have 210 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:04,480 interesting things to say about many other things. 211 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:10,240 So I tried to find an English translation of Light of the 212 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:14,720 Lord, and I found out that there is no English translation of 213 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,280 Light of the Lord. There are only bits and pieces 214 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:22,920 that had been translated. And I check to see if anyone was 215 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:24,920 working on it. And I found out no one was 216 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:29,760 working on it, so I foolishly decided that, well, it had to be 217 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:33,480 done, so I would do it. I say foolishly because I had no 218 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:35,560 idea what I was getting into. None. 219 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,320 None. I tell you, I had no idea. 220 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,840 I thought, well, I can read my Farsham, no, So what could be 221 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,760 the big deal? And I found out to my chagrin 222 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:54,960 that that wasn't sufficient. So, so all I can say is, you 223 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,520 know, as far as rendering this into English, that was the least 224 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,840 of my problems. I really every sentence, every 225 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:06,840 word was challenging for me. And, but I was determined to do 226 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:11,360 it and to determine, determined to do it quickly because it had 227 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,560 to be out there, You know, there needed to be a translation of 228 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:16,760 this work. So I just decided I was going to 229 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,240 do it. I spent only a year, I got it 230 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,560 out. It has errors because I, I 231 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:25,000 rushed. So if, if anyone is interested 232 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,120 in buying it, I would advise buying the paperback, which is 233 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,000 at least a little bit better than than the original. 234 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:37,400 And then when when it came out again in the edited volume that 235 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:41,760 I did of all Crescas works, there are more corrections in 236 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,720 that in that volume. So that might be even better. 237 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,400 When you talk about the difficulty in the translation, 238 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:52,360 are you, you're not, you're, you're not referring to just 239 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:57,280 straight up translating words as much as being able to capture 240 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:04,320 what he's trying to say and and kind of put that in in English 241 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,160 terminology. Right. 242 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,320 So actually there are two problems. 243 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,040 One is figuring out what the heck he's trying to say. 244 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:13,440 You know which, which wasn't easy. 245 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:18,200 First of all, you know, medieval philosophical Hebrew vocabulary 246 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:22,040 is a whole, a whole thing. You think you know what this 247 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:24,280 word means 'cause you're familiar with the word, but it 248 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,400 means something completely different in medieval 249 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,040 philosophies. So when you're reading it, you 250 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,160 say, well, I know what this means, but this can't be what 251 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,640 it's saying. And then you have to figure out 252 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:38,440 what this word means meant then, which is different. 253 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,160 Just a, a simple example. This, this really tripped me up. 254 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:48,000 The word yadua, which we would say isn't means known means 255 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,880 certain, a certain something, a certain something. 256 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,360 That's what yadua means. Well, I didn't know that, so I'm 257 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:56,240 translating. No, known doesn't make any 258 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,920 sense. So, you know, it involved going 259 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,280 back and then trying to learn really a whole new language. 260 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:07,000 And once you, you get the words right, then you have to figure 261 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,520 out what, what Crescas is trying to say. 262 00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:15,599 He, he wrote very laconically, very fair, very hard to figure 263 00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:18,079 out. And it was important to me 264 00:17:18,079 --> 00:17:20,079 because I thought he was such a brilliant thinker. 265 00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:22,400 It was important to me to understand what he was saying 266 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:24,640 and then to render it into English. 267 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,079 And I'm still working on it. It's, you know, it's still not 268 00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:30,560 perfect. Well, we appreciate that you're 269 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,600 putting in so much effort into getting this, like, perfect, 270 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:38,080 which is amazing. How does his life and historical 271 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,840 context of his work influence the way we should interpret the 272 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:48,080 light of the Lord? So I think a major a major 273 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,560 influence on his life was the loss of his son. 274 00:17:52,200 --> 00:18:02,040 And I think the the fact that he lost his son caused him to 275 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:07,280 identify very strongly with Avraham and the Al Qaeda. 276 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:16,440 And he actually refers to his son as the the, the unblemished 277 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:20,080 lamb that I sacrificed as a burnt offering. 278 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:25,160 That's how he refers to his son. So he identifies very strongly 279 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:29,640 with Avraham. And I think what's very 280 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:36,320 important to understand is that he thinks that as a result of 281 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:42,320 the AL Qaida trial, that Abraham's devotion to God, his 282 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:47,560 love of God, his attachment to God, was enhanced rather than 283 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:51,400 diminished. And what one feels when one 284 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,680 reads light of the Lord is that this is exactly what happened to 285 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:58,560 Crescas. The loss of his son, instead of 286 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:02,560 diminishing his attachment to God, actually increased it. 287 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:10,560 And that's because the way he understood trials was that 288 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:19,120 trials are a way in which God brings you closer to him by 289 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:25,520 putting you through something that has that effect. 290 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:32,240 OK, so to maybe to make this a little bit more clear, this the 291 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:38,720 purpose of commandments is also that it that through doing them 292 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:43,880 through serving God, through caring for God, doing what God 293 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:49,480 asks, you draw closer to him through a trial, through doing 294 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:53,160 what God asked, no matter how hard you grow closer to him. 295 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,800 And and this was this was Christmas's experience that he 296 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,560 grew closer to God. When he talks about the 297 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:05,280 Achaidas, it's really quite interesting that he he talks 298 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,880 about this Attayadati. Now I know that you are your Ray 299 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:10,640 Elohim, that you are God fearing. 300 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:16,280 When he talks about Attayadati, what he says is it's not that 301 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:21,520 God didn't know in advance that. Abraham would succeed. 302 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:25,280 The whole point of the trial was to get him to do this thing that 303 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:26,920 would then draw him closer to God. 304 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:28,520 That was the whole point of the trial. 305 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:33,840 Every trial is for that purpose. So what does it mean that he 306 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:37,440 says Attaya dati? I'm I now, now I know. 307 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:44,200 It's that the level of Urat Hashem, the level of God fearing 308 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:51,880 this that Abraham achieved as a result of the Al Qaeda was far 309 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:56,320 greater than the level of God fearing this that he achieved 310 00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:02,120 before. And since he had not achieved 311 00:21:02,120 --> 00:21:08,120 that level until this moment, God could not say, I now know 312 00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:12,960 because it wasn't yet true. OK, so, so at the moment that 313 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,280 that Avraham reached that level, then God could say, now I know 314 00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:21,280 because now it's true that you have reached a level of God 315 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,840 fearing this that you had not reached earlier. 316 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:32,120 I think, at least for me, the way Crescas feels about God as a 317 00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:37,600 result of this tragic loss that he experienced, it puts me in 318 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,960 mind of of people like Ravi Akiva, who was smiling as his 319 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,680 skin was being flayed by the Romans. 320 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,600 How is that possible? Nobody could understand it. 321 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:53,840 But he said, now I get to do to love God with all your soul, 322 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:54,880 right? He he could. 323 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:56,760 He said, I never was able to do that. 324 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,920 And here I think Kreskas is, is feeling that he's able to love 325 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,160 God in a new way that he wasn't able to love God before. 326 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,160 I also think of Socrates. Socrates was perfectly sanguine 327 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,320 at his at his own execution. How is that possible? 328 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,600 It's possible because what mattered to him was being a just 329 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:17,840 man. No one could take that from him. 330 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,040 No one had taken it from him, and he was happy. 331 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:25,600 And what we learned from this is that death is not the worst 332 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,120 thing that can happen to a person. 333 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,040 Death is is another chance to be close to God. 334 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:36,840 If you believe that after after you die, you and and you've been 335 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:42,000 exotic in your life, then you you bask in in the shrina. 336 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:43,600 You know what, what could be better? 337 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:51,120 And interestingly, in the letter to the Jews of Avignon, Crescas 338 00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:59,160 says, well, I I could quote it. He says ustiq alai hadeen I 339 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:05,800 accept the justice of of God's judgment, the Edna Haim latouf 340 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:15,120 helko ulanimat Goralo and I'm consoled by my sons for good 341 00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:21,440 fortune his his good fortune. So you know, Kresgas didn't 342 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,360 think that death was the worst thing. 343 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,720 He didn't think that that suffering was the worst thing. 344 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,120 The worst thing is distance from God. 345 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,880 And if no one has affected your distance from God, if in fact 346 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:37,280 your distance from God has been reduced, then things are good. 347 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,920 Wow. Yeah. 348 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,840 That is, that's. Crazy. 349 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:45,280 Yeah. He, he was just, he was really 350 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:50,000 in, in my view, really, truly, really, truly exotic, really a 351 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,880 righteous person. Wow, he was intense. 352 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,080 He was intense. He was intense, yes. 353 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,400 I mean, he was, he was able, you know, when he talked about 354 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,800 things like reward and punishment, he was able to say 355 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:08,160 that physical suffering is, is just an illusory bad thing. 356 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,520 You know the the really bad thing is is distance from God. 357 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,600 Incredible. Bensi, you want to take the next 358 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:24,880 questions? The next sections OK, so we want 359 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:29,360 to talk about the structure of the book, The Light of the Lord. 360 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,840 Can you elaborate on the organizational structure Crescus 361 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,640 chose for his work and how it serves the development of his 362 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:45,680 philosophical arguments? OK, so I think it's important to 363 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:51,680 note that Crescus was very, it mattered, that structure and 364 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,560 clarity mattered a great deal to him, which might be ironic 365 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:59,040 considering how difficult his work is, but it was clearly very 366 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,440 important to him. So the idea that I already 367 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:06,000 mentioned about theory preceding practice, you know, those were 368 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:11,000 important things to him. And one of the things that that 369 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:17,600 he always insisted on was that when somebody is writing, they 370 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,240 ought to aim at three things. One is that it'd be easy to 371 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:26,520 understand. Second, that it'd be easy to 372 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:32,920 remember and, and preserve. So, so those things, those 373 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,240 things were very important to him. 374 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:38,640 Very important that when somebody writes those things 375 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,680 happen and and those who are reading the work can benefit 376 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:47,480 from it. So, and this of course was one 377 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,640 of his complaints about Maimonides mission Torah, that 378 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,040 it wasn't well organized. That was one of the things that 379 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,640 troubled him about it. So he really did organize light 380 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,640 of the Lord very well. It was it's very clearly 381 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,440 structured just to give you a basic outline. 382 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,400 He begins with the most fundamental beliefs, beliefs 383 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,920 that are common to all believers in God, existence, unity, 384 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,320 existence of God, His unity and His incorporeality, right? 385 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,120 Those are kind of the basic things. 386 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:23,120 He goes on to what he calls P note he has 6P note 6 387 00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:28,920 cornerstones that are our Jewish beliefs, OK, and they are three 388 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,080 of them have to do with God, three of them have to do with 389 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:32,520 man. But such things as God's 390 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:37,120 knowledge, God's power, prophecy is one of them. 391 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,360 A choice, a free will is one of them. 392 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,440 So those are are very fundamental and he he has an 393 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,240 interesting way of characterizing them. 394 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,080 They are the truths without which there could be no Torah. 395 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,080 Then he goes on. So they're axioms. 396 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,360 They're axioms, right? They're axioms to the Torah, 397 00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,040 right? Without them, there could be no 398 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:04,440 Torah. He goes on to beliefs that are 399 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,600 true and that one must embrace, otherwise one is a heretic. 400 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,560 But they don't rise to the level of there could be no Torah 401 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,400 without them. OK. 402 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:20,120 And he's got a lot of those. And finally, he's got things 403 00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:23,960 that are a little doubtful where he tries to do his best to think 404 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,120 what the rabbis and, and our tradition would say about them, 405 00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:29,280 as well as what philosophy would say. 406 00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:34,000 In each of in each of these areas, he talks about what other 407 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,080 people say. He shows what's right and what's 408 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,960 wrong about them. And then he presents his own 409 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,760 view. It's very methodical and and 410 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:47,000 quite quite easy to follow. You know, when the first part 411 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,880 you were mentioning how he doesn't like how Maimonides 412 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,480 wasn't very structured in the writing of the Mora. 413 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,240 It is a little bit surprising to me. 414 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:02,320 I wonder because even in the introduction the Rambam kind of, 415 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,280 you know, shows his cards here that by design he's doing it 416 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,680 like that. Yeah, so I I'm sorry, maybe I 417 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,440 wasn't clear, but in the mission of Torah, he was complaining 418 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,360 about the mission of Torah and its structure. 419 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,560 I don't know, but but right now with or or a sham because in the 420 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,360 Mora you were saying how the ideas weren't was so you meant 421 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:27,520 you meant. No so so in his introduction to 422 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,200 Light of the Lord, he's the introduction is really the 423 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,400 introduction to the bigger work, the second volume of which he 424 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,600 didn't write and his complaints are about are about the mission. 425 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,040 Oh OK OK OK OK. I thought I heard more in a book 426 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,040 from the beginning so that a little bit surprised me. 427 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:48,480 OK sorry about that, my bad. OK so actually getting into more 428 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,840 and it will come now. What ways would you say that? 429 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:56,640 Chase Crescas caste Crescas's work deviates from other 430 00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,560 medieval philosophical works, such as, of course, Morine 431 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,040 Vuhim. And What significance do these 432 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,640 differences hold to their respective intended audiences? 433 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:16,680 So I would say that it's it's fair to say about the medievals 434 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:21,320 generally that truth is truth. There's only one truth. 435 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,320 They're not relativistic. They don't think you have your 436 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,720 truth and I have my truth. They think truth is true. 437 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:33,200 So certainly for the Jewish philosophers, the Torah and 438 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:37,880 philosophy had to be saying the same thing, because if the 439 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,720 philosophy is true and the Torah is true, they have to be saying 440 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:44,920 the same thing. So the question then arises, 441 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,480 well, which kind of yields to which, OK. 442 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,880 That is, do we read the Torah in light of philosophy or do we 443 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:53,800 read philosophy in light of the Torah? 444 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:58,360 And this is where I think the the main difference between the 445 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:03,400 Rambam and Kreskas comes in, because I think that the Rambam 446 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:11,800 really reads the Torah in light of philosophy and his his 447 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:17,040 recourse to metaphorical readings of the Torah that has 448 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,120 to do with that he prioritizes philosophy. 449 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:28,080 He certainly is is a great advocate of Torah, but only in 450 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:33,840 so far as Torah can can be made to conform to philosophical 451 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,080 truth. And I think Crescas is the other 452 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:41,000 way around. I think Crescas thinks that 453 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:47,600 philosophy has to yield to Torah, that philosophy, since 454 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,400 Torah is telling us the truth, philosophy will say the same 455 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,720 thing. Speculation will get us to the 456 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,960 same place. But he would take, he would give 457 00:30:55,960 --> 00:31:00,080 pride of place to Torah over over philosophy. 458 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,560 At least that's my take on on the difference between them. 459 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,720 Maimonides tells us in the Guide who his audience is. 460 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,040 His audience is the perplexed. It's those people who have been 461 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:19,000 steeped in Torah and in Judaism and then come across philosophy, 462 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:23,040 and all of a sudden the Torah isn't looking so good and 463 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,840 they're perplexed. And my monies give them a way 464 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:31,840 out, gives them a way to continue to embrace Torah while 465 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:38,080 they accept philosophy. OK. 466 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,320 But you know, I don't know if you hear in that, but I hear in 467 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,840 that. But it's almost as if we, we 468 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:49,960 really need to redo Torah so that it, it doesn't sound 469 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:54,440 foolish to people who have embraced philosophy or have have 470 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:59,640 come in contact with philosophy. He tries to to make Torah sound 471 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:06,160 more like philosophy so that it's appealing to those who who 472 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:11,480 are fans of philosophy, who have come to appreciate philosophy 473 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:16,960 and maybe are a little bit embarrassed about at least the 474 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:21,840 literal Torah. And so he he introduces a 475 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:25,680 figurative Torah and makes it conform to his philosophical 476 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,680 ideas. Prescott I think if you ask me 477 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:34,200 who his audience is, I would say his audience is those who have 478 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:39,600 been seduced by Maimonides. They're the people he is trying 479 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:44,320 to bring back. He sees Maimonides as having 480 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:49,360 been seduced by Aristotle and he sees Maimonides followers as 481 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,360 having been seduced by Maimonides. 482 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,000 And he's, he's concerned about that. 483 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:58,160 He's concerned. He, he says, he says that 484 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,880 Maimonides, he says, he says things that are astonishing. 485 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,680 Duvarin must be him astonishing things. 486 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:11,560 And he he says something that is that echoes something that 487 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,160 Plato's Socrates says in the Republic about Homer. 488 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:20,200 And then Aristotle says in in the Nicomachean Ethics about the 489 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:25,720 adherence of the Forms. You know, Socrates says, you 490 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,680 know, Homer is beloved to us, but the truth is more beloved. 491 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:35,520 And Aristotle says the same thing about the adherents of the 492 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,920 Forms, that that they are beloved, but the truth is more 493 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,560 beloved. And then Crescas says the same 494 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,480 thing about Maimonides, that he is beloved, his works are 495 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,320 beloved, even his secular works are beloved, but the truth is 496 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,680 more beloved. And then as if that isn't 497 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,480 enough, he then quotes the Talmud. 498 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,640 Talmud says this in several places, that wherever there is 499 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:06,200 Hilo Hashem, wherever there is desecration of the name, one may 500 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,320 not accord reverence to the Roth. 501 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:16,840 He says it straight out in his in his introduction that I mean, 502 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,320 you don't really have to read between the lines. 503 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:23,840 He's worried that Maimonides has said things that at least cause 504 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:28,000 Afil Hashem, even if Maimonides himself was not was not 505 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:34,800 intending for that to happen. They cause Afil Hashem and one 506 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:39,159 has to set the record straight. So I think that's his audience, 507 00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:40,840 and I think that drives his book. 508 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,760 Yeah, that makes for a fascinating, fascinating almost 509 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,840 confrontation between between Kreskas and Maimonides. 510 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:53,320 It is worth it is worth noting for for the audience that there 511 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,960 are other ways to understand Maimonides in general. 512 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,720 Kreskas for sure believed exactly as you're saying, just 513 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:05,360 there. There are different ways of 514 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:10,560 understanding Maimonides, and of course Kreskas's understanding 515 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:15,480 puts him squarely, squarely opposed to Maimonides. 516 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,640 I think it's it's fair to say that he's opposed to Aristotle. 517 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,880 And to the extent that Maimonides embraced Aristotle, 518 00:35:23,240 --> 00:35:27,440 he was he he was disappointed. It was a, it was a, it was a no 519 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,880 fly zone. Yeah, yeah. 520 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:38,800 So I want to get into the metaphysics and physics he 521 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,200 challenges, as you mentioned, Aristotle. 522 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,240 He challenges Aristotelian physics and metaphysics 523 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:50,440 extensively, and I'd like to know why was he so critical of 524 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:58,440 this. I would say that Aristotle 525 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,480 believed and, and certainly Kreskas thought Aristotle 526 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:07,400 believed and, and Kreskas thought Maimonides believed that 527 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:12,120 Aristotle believed that the way to metaphysics, that is the way 528 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:18,360 to know about the divine, what is beyond our physical universe 529 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:24,120 is through physics, that physics, once you understand the 530 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,600 universe, you will know what God must be. 531 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,880 And the only way to know what God must be is to study the laws 532 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,880 of physics. And that's what Aristotle 533 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:41,600 dedicated his life to. And, and I, I guess I would say 534 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:46,320 that the only way for Aristotle or Maimonides as Crescas 535 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:51,240 understood him to under to know the truth about God is to get 536 00:36:51,240 --> 00:36:55,240 your physics right. I think this is something that 537 00:36:55,240 --> 00:36:58,000 Crescas found wholly objectionable. 538 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:03,880 I think first of all, he wasn't such a fan of Aristotelian 539 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,440 physics. He thought Aristotelian physics 540 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:12,600 was full of question begging full of assumptions that were 541 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,880 not proved that were I don't know, perhaps struck him as 542 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,960 commonsensical, but very often Crescas as well. 543 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,360 We don't know if that's true. OK, so he he was always accusing 544 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,640 him of question begging. So if if his physics is bad, we 545 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:31,040 certainly don't want to to have our view of God depend on 546 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:37,080 Ricetulian physics and that whole approach troubled him. 547 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,400 It's interesting in in book four of light of the Lord. 548 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:45,280 One of the issues that he raises is whether we could say that 549 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:50,440 masabre sheet is what we, what we call what we translate as the 550 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:55,360 account of creation is physics and massim Merkava the account 551 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,240 of the chariot. If that is metaphysics, that is 552 00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:03,440 what Maimonides maintains. Crescas discusses that in book 553 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,760 four and he says no way, no way is that true. 554 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:13,920 Massimbraicid is the account of creation and the Massim Merkava 555 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:19,640 is the account of the higher things and they're not related 556 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,520 to one another. And he quotes a very interesting 557 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,160 passage. I think it's in it's, it's in 558 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,400 the Tomlin, I think in the Hagiga. 559 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:36,480 It's a very interesting passage, an anecdote about two sages. 560 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:41,880 One was an expert on the account of creation, the other was an 561 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:47,160 expert on the account of of the chariot, and they were going to 562 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,320 teach each other the one they didn't know. 563 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,360 So the first thing to notice, even though Kreskas hasn't 564 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:57,080 pointed out it's, it's super obvious the person who knew the 565 00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:00,400 account of the chariot and didn't know the account of 566 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:05,600 creation was obviously someone who got to let's say metaphysics 567 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:09,880 without going through physics. So right away we see from that 568 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:15,160 that Talmudic story that physics is not the way to metaphysics, 569 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:19,320 and that's not what's meant by creation and and the chariot. 570 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:25,360 And so the the one who knew creation taught creation to the 571 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,120 one who knew the chariot. And then when the chariot's turn 572 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:32,800 came to teach the other one about the chariot, the other one 573 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:34,480 said, I'm sorry, I'm not old enough. 574 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:39,280 So he clearly didn't think that one could go from physics to 575 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,000 metaphysics. This is not what was going on 576 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,680 there. And Kriskuss is very insistent 577 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,640 that these are not what these what these terms mean. 578 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,760 And the way to know about God is through Torah. 579 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,600 It's not through Aristotelian physics. 580 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:58,920 And, and, and you know that all the fuss that Maimonides made 581 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:03,360 about we shouldn't tell these things to people, you know, we 582 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,160 should tell them Aristotelian physics and metaphysics. 583 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:08,840 Christ, I said, what's the big deal? 584 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,240 So we tell them about God's necessary existence. 585 00:40:11,240 --> 00:40:13,040 We could tell women and children about that. 586 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,920 What is the big secret? The secrets that he thought 587 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,920 there were were really the mysteries of the higher realm, 588 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:25,520 which we were not going to know through physics, so. 589 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:29,640 What's really interesting to me is that he singles out 590 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,360 Maimonides with physics and metaphysics. 591 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,080 He was not the only reason to believe that. 592 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:39,400 I by chance I was going through the run. 593 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,800 You know the run. Ron was his teacher. 594 00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:45,280 Who's who's teacher? What's Chris cast his teacher. 595 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:52,600 But doesn't the run hold that Massa Bershida, Massa Merkava is 596 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:56,440 physics and metaphysics? I, I I don't know the answer to 597 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,680 that so. That's so interesting because I 598 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:04,200 I was actually reading what the Drashota run and I could be 599 00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,200 mistaken, so I guess I shouldn't say it on air if I'm not 100% 600 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,680 sure. I'll check it out again, but I'm 601 00:41:09,720 --> 00:41:12,920 almost positive that I remember seeing that the run understood 602 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,800 it as physics and metaphysics, so that makes it so interesting. 603 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,520 Yeah, this, this was something that that troubled him very 604 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:24,080 much, that that people were were embracing this idea when he 605 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:25,920 thought it was totally not Jewish. 606 00:41:26,240 --> 00:41:28,360 You know that there was something not Jewish about that, 607 00:41:28,720 --> 00:41:31,680 that we don't learn about God from studying the universe. 608 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:36,600 In fact, you know, I guess I, I guess I could talk about this 609 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:42,480 now. He quotes at the end of of book 610 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:47,360 one, he quotes another, another passage. 611 00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:53,240 This one is is the famous one about Avraham being compared to 612 00:41:53,240 --> 00:41:57,320 a traveller on the road. And the traveller sees an 613 00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:01,440 illumined palace and he says, could it be that there's no 614 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:06,280 manager, no, no master of this palace, you know, asking it 615 00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,760 rhetorically. Obviously if it's lit up, 616 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:13,200 obviously there's a master. And then the master shows up and 617 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,160 says I am the master of this palace. 618 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:21,640 The way Kreskas understands that story is that Abraham used his 619 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:25,920 speculation, used his philosophical reasoning to 620 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:30,640 imagine or to to conclude, I should say, to conclude that 621 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,600 there is indeed a master of the universe. 622 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:38,520 But he wasn't sure he was inclined in that direction. 623 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:43,400 And it wasn't until the master announced himself, that is until 624 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,560 there was a prophetic revelation, that he could really 625 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,680 be sure. And Crespus is trying to tell us 626 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:55,760 philosophy can give us an inclination, it can give us good 627 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,680 reasons to believe, but ultimately the Torah is our 628 00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,200 source. It's the experience, the 629 00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,600 experience. Experience or or you know, or or 630 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:10,160 the Torah itself For him was was very reliable. 631 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:15,240 Going back to Maimonides, I think it's clear that he, when 632 00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,640 it, when it comes to Aristotelian physics and 633 00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,960 metaphysics, I don't think he felt like the matters were all 634 00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:23,840 settled. I, I believe from my 635 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,840 understanding is that even my monies makes a astonishing 636 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,760 statement that if Aristotle were, you know, Aristotle, he 637 00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:36,920 disagreed with Aristotle on, on the eternality of the universe, 638 00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:38,280 right? There had to be a beginning 639 00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,040 because he relied on the Torah on for that. 640 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,560 And he says, if Aristotle is proven to be, you know, right 641 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,320 without a shadow of a doubt, then we might have to know, we 642 00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,800 will have to look at Bereshit as as as a metaphor. 643 00:43:51,240 --> 00:43:53,160 But the fact is he sides with the Torah. 644 00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:56,280 So I don't know if it's so fair to say that he was like, you 645 00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,960 know, Aristotelian, you know, to the extreme. 646 00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:01,600 But I I also for. Sure, I. 647 00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:08,480 Just sorry. Just say that. 648 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,000 I think, I think the round one believed the world was eternal. 649 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:13,160 I think that was that was the cover, yeah. 650 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:16,360 Wow. Yeah, I I had no doubt about it. 651 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:18,400 Just. You guys cut out for a second, 652 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,680 so could you? Yeah, I, I said that in my in my 653 00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:25,280 understanding of my manatees. That was a cover that he, I 654 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:29,160 don't, he protests too often, but I don't believe that. 655 00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:30,640 But I don't believe that, but he does. 656 00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:32,400 He he believes the world is eternal. 657 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:35,720 I don't see any other way. So when you say you don't see 658 00:44:35,720 --> 00:44:37,640 any other way, I'm just curious to pick your brain. 659 00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:39,560 What do you mean by that? How do you see that? 660 00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:45,680 Well, I mean, you know, I, I give you this, you know, just a, 661 00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:50,080 a quick, a quick analysis. I think Maimonides thinks there 662 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,600 are two possibilities. Either the world is completely 663 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,480 natural or the world is miraculous. 664 00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,200 And I think he rejects the latter. 665 00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:00,240 So if the world's completely natural, he would understand it 666 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:04,360 as not having creation cause creation is miraculous. 667 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,080 He would understand the Torah is completely natural, which I 668 00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:11,760 think he does. He understands prophecy is 669 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:16,280 completely natural, that that's the way it seems to me. 670 00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:19,200 So. The natural, the natural, the 671 00:45:19,240 --> 00:45:25,080 the naturalism that runs through the more F in for for you. 672 00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,520 It leads you to conclude that OK, I understand. 673 00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:30,560 OK. Yeah, that that that's a very, 674 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:32,480 you know, common understanding of Rhumba. 675 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,600 Everybody has their kind of take on because they speaking 676 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:39,520 different audiences and you know that that for for the purposes 677 00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:43,640 of this podcast, you know, we we want to understand what the 678 00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:46,120 other viewpoints were at the time as well, like, because 679 00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,840 obviously Rambam was not the only person to think a certain 680 00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:50,520 way. We want to know what, you know, 681 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:54,000 Crescas thought and the contemporaries of Crescas. 682 00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:57,680 So let's get to them because what did what was their view on 683 00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:02,840 metaphysics and physics Jewish non Jewish at the time and also 684 00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:07,400 their the views of God by other medieval thinkers. 685 00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:12,040 OK, so I, I, you know, I, I want to focus on Crescas. 686 00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:16,080 So I, I will talk kind of in general terms about the others, 687 00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:18,280 you know, instead of, instead of speaking about them 688 00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:26,560 individually. I think Crescas's main criticism 689 00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:36,640 of these thinkers was that in their embrace of the idea of 690 00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:40,280 God's oneness, which they understood as internal 691 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:45,200 simplicity, I think God is not divided in any way. 692 00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:49,760 They sacrificed a whole lot of things that we would want to say 693 00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:53,200 about God. So I think this was his biggest 694 00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:58,320 complaint that for example, the knowledge of particulars, you 695 00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:02,640 know, those kinds of things that they deny to God because, you 696 00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,720 know, he can't have many pieces of knowledge 'cause he's one, 697 00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,080 right? So that those kinds of things, 698 00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,440 those are the things that he thought we really got tripped up 699 00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:19,720 on by embracing certain certain philosophical ideas that that 700 00:47:20,240 --> 00:47:25,120 aren't, aren't established. So, you know, we we say 701 00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,240 Schmeisser, OK, no schema had what does the had mean? 702 00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:30,800 So it could mean God is the only God. 703 00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:34,360 It could mean God is unique, but the philosophers tended to 704 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,680 understand it as God is undivided that he's completely 705 00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:41,280 simple. And from from Kris Kuss's point 706 00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:45,760 of view, that was that was the death knell, OK, of of the God 707 00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:52,560 that we know and love. What Kris Kuss did instead was 708 00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:57,000 to just simply say that God is infinite. 709 00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:01,880 He's infinite in every way, like your local handyman. 710 00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,920 No job too big or too small. OK, so you know, he could know. 711 00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:08,280 He can know everything. He can know the future. 712 00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:11,440 He can know everything. No particulars. 713 00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:14,400 Once you can know particulars, you can have real prophecy. 714 00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,120 You can have real miracles, all of these things that really are 715 00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:20,480 difficult to explain. Once you deny God any kind of 716 00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:24,360 knowledge of particulars, you can have prophecy you can have, 717 00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:31,280 you can have, and this is especially interesting, I think 718 00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:35,320 you can have an anteriorly that is at the, at the outset, 719 00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:38,920 eternal world. Because God is so powerful, He's 720 00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:45,240 so infinitely powerful that he creates out of nothing forever. 721 00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:49,960 So he, he, he has been, how could he not be created? 722 00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:54,320 He's all powerful. So he's creating for all time 723 00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,000 out of nothing. So he, you know, Kreskas 724 00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,720 preserves the, you know, creation of nothing. 725 00:48:59,720 --> 00:49:02,720 Yeshmayan. And he also says there's no 726 00:49:02,720 --> 00:49:04,760 problem with saying the universe is eternal. 727 00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,680 There's no problem with that because God is constantly 728 00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:10,840 active. God, God is completely powerful. 729 00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:13,080 He can do what he can do all the time. 730 00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:17,040 And so, you know, if you say, well, what you know, what about 731 00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,840 Grati, you know, he says, yes, this current world, this, this 732 00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:24,480 is one of God's worlds. And he, he finds Talmudic 733 00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:28,000 sources that will support the idea that God makes worlds and 734 00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,320 destroys them, makes worlds and destroys them, you know, these 735 00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:32,840 kinds of things. He always finds some kind of 736 00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:37,840 Talmudic a source. Was he? 737 00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:42,920 Was he a literalist with Agadot? I would say he was not a 738 00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:46,400 literalist about really about any about it. 739 00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:50,280 He wasn't wedded to literal interpretation of anything. 740 00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,160 He was not as simplistic interpreter, some of his 741 00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:56,680 interpretations of Mahomash just astonishing. 742 00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:04,160 But but he was a traditionalist. I mean, he, he, you know, the 743 00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,880 tradition, what the rabbi said meant a lot to him. 744 00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:11,320 What, what the sitter says, you know, all of those things. 745 00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:14,000 He, he, he talked a lot about what the sitter says, what the 746 00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:17,920 rabbi said, and it mattered a great deal to him that he not 747 00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:20,400 strayed from traditional points of view. 748 00:50:22,240 --> 00:50:26,120 The main, the main difference between Chris Coss's view of God 749 00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:31,240 and everyone else's is for him God's essence is love, infinite 750 00:50:31,240 --> 00:50:35,920 love, not intellect, infinite love. 751 00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:39,160 It's, it's totally different from what you, what you read, 752 00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,080 you know, in the other, in the other philosophers. 753 00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:46,840 Everything that he says has to do with God's love. 754 00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:49,280 Everything comes back to that idea. 755 00:50:49,720 --> 00:50:51,960 Punishment. Punishment is out only out of 756 00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:53,840 love. God doesn't even punish you 757 00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:56,280 because you deserve it. He punishes you like your daddy 758 00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:57,720 would. You know, to make make you 759 00:50:57,720 --> 00:51:00,760 better. You can see that, you can see 760 00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:03,720 the psychology behind his thinking because it's almost as 761 00:51:03,720 --> 00:51:08,080 if he's projecting in a way what he that the world ought to be 762 00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:11,040 because that's what he suffered. You know, his son died. 763 00:51:11,240 --> 00:51:13,960 He needs that to be the truth. That's true. 764 00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:17,200 But you know, this is this is his understanding of God and you 765 00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:20,640 know, it's not far from the Taurus, the Taurus view of God. 766 00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:29,680 He, he, he says about God that his, his love is infinite. 767 00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:36,480 It's not like any other love, he says, he says the word Ahava 768 00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:39,680 love is used for how people feel about God. 769 00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,880 But the word phasic, a kind of more ardent, more passionate 770 00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:46,640 love. It's the kind of love that God 771 00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:50,840 has for for the Jewish people and, and in particular for the 772 00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:54,760 forefathers and he, you know, they're up Sookin that use the 773 00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:59,560 word phasic that show that God had this passionate love for 774 00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:01,200 people. And of course, because his love 775 00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:03,880 is infinite, of course it's going to be stronger than any 776 00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:09,440 love that we could have for him. Avraham is called Avraham Ohavi, 777 00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:12,880 you know, the one who loves me. But the word kaishak is a word 778 00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:16,400 that is used for God and he says something that I love. 779 00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:21,800 He says the Jewish God is a jealous God. 780 00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:23,680 Well, of course he's a jealous God. 781 00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:28,720 Anybody who loves passionately is jealous if if his beloved is 782 00:52:28,720 --> 00:52:32,880 stepping out on him. And this is exactly you know it. 783 00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:36,880 It's not contradictory to talk about a a a God of love and a 784 00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:38,920 God of jealousy. They're two sides of the same 785 00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,640 coin. Amazing. 786 00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,080 That is fascinating. That is fascinating. 787 00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:47,720 What are what are the implications of oh, OK, what are 788 00:52:47,720 --> 00:52:50,920 the implications of Kresgoth's views on free will for the 789 00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:54,200 concept of moral responsibility in Jewish thought? 790 00:52:54,640 --> 00:53:00,000 OK, so this, this is really quite, quite where he's an 791 00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,040 outlier. This is the first thing my first 792 00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:04,400 contact with him was, was his view of free will. 793 00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:05,880 And I thought, what the heck is this? 794 00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:11,000 He's, he believes that there's causal necessity that given, 795 00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:15,080 given the causes, there will be certain effects and it can't go 796 00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:17,400 any other way. The stronger 'cause will cause 797 00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:21,920 the effect. And he he really doesn't deviate 798 00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:26,440 from that. So the question is, so where 799 00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:30,600 does free will come in? And it can't not come in, OK, 800 00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:34,360 for the simple reason that it's one of the P note, it's a 801 00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:38,400 fundamental. So it has to come in. 802 00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:43,280 So you know, it, it took a little digging to to try to 803 00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:46,760 figure out what he was saying. He doesn't really back down from 804 00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:51,480 the idea of causal necessity that of course, you know, if 805 00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:54,480 something happens, there were things that caused it, and if 806 00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:57,120 other things would have caused it, where other causes would 807 00:53:57,120 --> 00:53:59,040 have been there, other things would have happened. 808 00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:02,000 In fact, the very basis of commandments is that their 809 00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:05,880 causes, their causes. And if if there were no 810 00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:08,080 connection between cause and effect, we wouldn't have 811 00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:09,880 commandments, God wouldn't bother with it. 812 00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:14,120 So, so where does, where does free will come in? 813 00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:17,520 And I think there are really two areas where where Cresccus 814 00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:21,920 identifies free will. But what we would mean by free 815 00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:24,040 will, we're really, we're not caused. 816 00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:29,600 One is our attitude. Do we love something or are we 817 00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:34,080 disgusted or do we hate it? And the other is effort. 818 00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:38,400 If we put effort into something, I think it, it may not make so 819 00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:40,400 much sense. I'm not sure it makes perfect 820 00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:42,600 sense. But this is what he seems to 821 00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:48,840 think that what what you do is caused, but how you feel about 822 00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:52,880 it is not caused. Are you are you happy doing the 823 00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:55,240 mitzvot or are you unhappy doing the mitzvot? 824 00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:59,040 Do you resent believing in God or not believing in God? 825 00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:01,600 You know those are things that are within your control. 826 00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:08,360 And also do you participate? Do you do you want to encourage 827 00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:14,480 what what is happening anyway? He, he talk about how I don't 828 00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:19,280 want to get too much into this, but Yaakov was promised certain 829 00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:23,240 things and nevertheless he did, he did things that would, would 830 00:55:23,240 --> 00:55:26,560 bring, it would, would cause this, this thing to happen. 831 00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:29,760 Well, he was, he was participating. 832 00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:32,680 He knew it was going to happen, but he wanted to be part of it. 833 00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:37,680 So he participated in it. So also interestingly for 834 00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:41,760 Crescas, we have no control over our beliefs either. 835 00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:45,680 Our beliefs are totally outside of our will. 836 00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:48,640 Otherwise we could believe that 2 + 2 = 5, but we can't. 837 00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:51,760 OK, so the things we believe we are also caused. 838 00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:54,600 But how do we feel about what we believe? 839 00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:57,800 How much do we want to understand? 840 00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:00,560 How much do effort do we put into investigating what we 841 00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:02,640 believe? We can't change what we believe, 842 00:56:02,720 --> 00:56:07,080 but we can love it, we can hate it, we can resent it. 843 00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:09,920 All those things are possible for us and that's that's where 844 00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:11,680 our moral responsibility comes in. 845 00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:15,480 And he quotes, you know, the famous thoughts of transgression 846 00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:17,440 are worse than transgression, OK. 847 00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:20,280 Because thoughts of transgression, that is how you 848 00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:23,760 feel about your transgression that is within your control. 849 00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:29,760 So there's an element over here that even our service of God is 850 00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:33,200 not in our control. It does seem that way. 851 00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:37,600 Whether we are joyful about it or resentful about it, that's 852 00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:40,400 within our control and that's what we're held responsible for. 853 00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:43,480 This this reminds me a lot of ishbits. 854 00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:44,920 Are you familiar with? Ishbits. 855 00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,400 Yeah, he was in that course as well. 856 00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:49,840 He was in that course. That I took with President 857 00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:51,920 Vinyl. That was my introduction to him 858 00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:55,080 as well. Yeah, I remember, I learned, I 859 00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:57,960 learned, you know, there's there's elements of that also 860 00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:02,200 with the way you react. I kind of I think if I'm not 861 00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:05,680 mistaken, if Dessler adopts some of that, some of that into his 862 00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:07,440 not completely, but a little bit of it. 863 00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:14,080 And what you're saying about, you know, the train is moving, 864 00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:17,760 if you want to kind of join the train or not, meaning your 865 00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:20,720 effort that you're to to help the cause or not. 866 00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:24,720 Yes. So that kind of reminds me of 867 00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:28,200 the Ramchal's understanding a little bit of how you know 868 00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:30,400 everything is, is leading to certain places. 869 00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:32,920 Just a matter if you want to, if you want to contribute to that 870 00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,280 or not, if you want to be part of it or not. 871 00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:39,720 Kind of seeing all these contemporary kind of voices. 872 00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:42,560 And now I'm kind of learning that they're all kind of getting 873 00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:46,200 it from. Yeah, I I think that's that's 874 00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:48,680 true. I mean, he quotes this, this 875 00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:54,920 other famous thing in in Shabbat about how you know this, but but 876 00:57:55,000 --> 00:58:06,960 at, at, at at harsh Sinai that, you know, God put, put the yeah, 877 00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:09,640 so you put the ha on them. OK. 878 00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:14,680 And, you know, and then the one of the rabbi's complaints, you 879 00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:16,240 know, well, then what choice did they have? 880 00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:17,640 You know, where's their free will? 881 00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:22,000 And the answer that's given in the Talmud in Shabbat is that 882 00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:27,040 this was all rectified in the time of Esther, when the Kimuva 883 00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:29,920 Kiblu, when they took it willingly, because the miracles 884 00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:32,160 they, they embraced their Judaism with joy. 885 00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:36,600 And that made-up for this coerced kind of acceptance of 886 00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:38,280 the Torah where they really had no choice. 887 00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:41,640 So the joyfulness that they experienced at the time of 888 00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:46,160 Mordechai and Esther, which of course we just experienced, that 889 00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:51,440 was their willing embrace of of what they embraced unwillingly 890 00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:55,720 for not completely willingly. The first thing that into the 891 00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:59,320 whole beautiful. OK, gotcha, gotcha. 892 00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:03,880 Really interesting, so I quickly want to go through books one 893 00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:09,600 through 4. Book one, Kresgas sets out to 894 00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:13,240 prove the existence of God. How does his approach to God 895 00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:17,560 differ from other medieval philosophers such as Maimonides 896 00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:22,440 and Aquinas? So I think just the simplest 897 00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:25,280 thing to say is that for him, no proof is decisive. 898 00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:30,720 There are better proofs and worse proofs, but no proof is 899 00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:33,720 decisive. The the true source, as I as I 900 00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:37,200 tried to indicate earlier, the true source for God's existence 901 00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:41,240 is the Torah is prophecy. Without that we are not certain. 902 00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:48,480 It's interesting though, that Spinoza mentions mentions 903 00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:52,480 Crescas by name in in one place in a letter that he wrote. 904 00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:57,480 And in that letter he says that Crescas was the only one who 905 00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:01,240 understood properly the proofs for God's existence of the 906 01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:04,680 ancients, and everyone else misunderstood their proofs. 907 01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:09,080 And I think probably this is the proof that Crescas thought was 908 01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:12,200 the most convincing of the proofs, though none of them is 909 01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:15,880 decisive. And that is that we don't prove 910 01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:19,800 God's existence. Because of the impossibility of 911 01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:24,600 an infinite causal chain, we can only prove God's existence 912 01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:28,520 because of the impossibility of there being only contingent 913 01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:32,080 beings. So that the the need for there 914 01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:38,360 to be at least one necessary being was was his proof. 915 01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:43,360 His proof for God's existence, but again, not a decisive proof. 916 01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:51,320 And jump into his next book focusing on the commandments and 917 01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:55,160 their underlying beliefs. How does Kreskas justify the 918 01:00:55,160 --> 01:01:01,160 commandments and what does he see as their role in Jewish life 919 01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:05,000 and thought? OK, so I think I, I already 920 01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:07,880 indicated, and I'll say it again, that commandments for him 921 01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:12,440 are causes. They are causes that will have 922 01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:15,880 the effect of bringing people closer to God. 923 01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:19,680 That is their point. Just like trials. 924 01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:21,480 That was the point of trials. That's the point of 925 01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:24,720 commandments. And they work as causes. 926 01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:27,880 Of course there are competing causes, but they are at least 927 01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:33,080 one set of causes that whose whose point is whose purpose is 928 01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:37,640 to bring people closer to God. And I think most certainly the 929 01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:41,280 way I understand it, so I don't want to speak too broadly, but 930 01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:46,040 the way I understand this is that when you serve someone, 931 01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:51,400 when you care, care for someone by doing things for them, things 932 01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:55,360 that they want, things that they ask, you grow closer. 933 01:01:55,560 --> 01:02:01,640 I think about taking care of of an elderly parent, for example, 934 01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:06,040 it increases the love. It's it's hard work, but the 935 01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:09,200 caring increases the love. Taking care of a young child, 936 01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:13,440 the more you do for someone, the greater the love. 937 01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:16,480 And I think the point of the commandments was to give us 938 01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:21,000 things to do for God, to increase our attachment to him, 939 01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:22,920 our devotion to him, our love for him. 940 01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:28,560 Crescas says that Avraham needed only one commandment to bring 941 01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:30,640 him close to God. That was circumcision. 942 01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:34,280 But we need many commandments. We need, we need to be 943 01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:40,200 constantly working for God in order to achieve that kind of 944 01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:45,200 level of closeness to him. I'm also reminded of, you know, 945 01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:49,720 what we say after each parrot of Kirkea vote in the summer? 946 01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:56,800 You know, we say, right? So God wanted, wanted what's 947 01:02:56,800 --> 01:03:00,320 best for us. And so he gave us many 948 01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:03,440 commandments, Torah and many commandments. 949 01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:07,480 So I think I think that's the idea of what's behind 950 01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:09,960 commandments. What would be his view of, let's 951 01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:12,680 say, the people who obviously there's many more people in the 952 01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:16,080 world besides Jews? What would be the purpose of, 953 01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:20,400 let's say someone who doesn't have the commandments? 954 01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:26,160 Yeah, so I I think they would have a harder time. 955 01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:30,840 I think you know when, when he says Shiloh Hasani Isha and 956 01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:36,000 Shiloh Hasani aved, the fact that women and slaves have fewer 957 01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,480 commandments makes it much harder for them to achieve the 958 01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:43,000 closest closest to God. And similarly it would be for 959 01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:46,960 for non Jews. I mean, he he's quite open about 960 01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:52,640 God's love being for all humanity, but especially for the 961 01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:56,720 Jewish people. So there is, there is that, 962 01:03:56,720 --> 01:04:01,480 there is that particularism that we are, we are his people and he 963 01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:04,040 loves us and that's why he's jealous when we go elsewhere 964 01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:06,880 there, there is that motif that runs through crescas. 965 01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:12,800 So not impossible to grow close to God, but you don't have these 966 01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:14,960 causes pushing you along, and you don't have. 967 01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:17,360 The head starts. Yeah, it makes it. 968 01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:21,200 It makes it much harder. So this is this is a case. 969 01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:23,160 This is a case. So, well, sorry Benji, you were 970 01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:24,720 saying? No, I was just going to say this 971 01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:27,320 is very beautiful thing that he says about Moshe. 972 01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:34,240 Why did Moshe begged God not to kill him and, and you know, to 973 01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:38,120 take the people to the to the land of Israel and the people 974 01:04:38,120 --> 01:04:39,920 were so irksome and so difficult. 975 01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:43,160 And he was, he was clearly getting irritated by the end. 976 01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:48,280 But when God wanted him, wanted him to die rather than crossover 977 01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:51,880 and and take care of these people, he begged to live. 978 01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:54,320 And Crescas says, why did he do that? 979 01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:56,280 Right. He could have he could have died 980 01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:59,680 and and basked in the Shrinath with all the other Sadiqam. 981 01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:03,160 Why? Why would he beg to to continue 982 01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:10,160 in this, in this hard job? And Crescas's answer was the 983 01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:14,520 most important thing for a human being is to serve God. 984 01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:18,400 He didn't want to give up the service of God, which is the way 985 01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:22,280 to get closer to God. And this is what what human 986 01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:25,160 happiness is about. It's about serving God. 987 01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:30,480 And he would rather have the happiness of serving God than of 988 01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:33,480 just sitting around and basking in the sunlight. 989 01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:40,520 Exactly an hour of good deeds in this world, In the entire world. 990 01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:45,880 Exactly. A fascinating kind of most of 991 01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:49,520 the things that Crescas advocates for seems to be seems 992 01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:53,360 to have been adopted by the mainstream religious culture 993 01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:56,640 today. But when you mentioned how you 994 01:05:56,640 --> 01:06:00,120 know, he admits when it comes to well, not admits but and 995 01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:03,760 according to his understanding of mitzvot, he must admit that 996 01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:06,320 for a woman, it's harder to come closer to God than a man. 997 01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:12,240 That is actually so funny in that for the most part, the way 998 01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:18,240 today women are generally educated in their teenage years 999 01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:20,800 in seminaries. You know, when they are, when 1000 01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:24,400 they're, it's usually that God. The what's, what's being told 1001 01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:27,760 is, you know, women have less mitzvah because they don't need 1002 01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:29,760 as much in order to get closer to God. 1003 01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:34,640 Right. That was yeah, he only needed 1004 01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:36,880 one. I know that's what we say, but 1005 01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:41,160 he says Shaloh hasani Gai shaloh Hasani avid Shaloh hasani Isha 1006 01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:45,360 that those are those are, you know, they make it harder. 1007 01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:47,600 They don't make it impossible, but they make it harder. 1008 01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:51,160 Maybe they do need fewer, but from his point of view. 1009 01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:55,280 The fact that he said it about Avram, he said that about Avram, 1010 01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:56,680 right? The fact that he said it about 1011 01:06:56,680 --> 01:07:00,920 Avram, I'm surprised that he wouldn't simply adopt it into 1012 01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:04,600 into into saying it about like, you know, females like, you know 1013 01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:06,880 what I mean? Like it's interesting that he 1014 01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:10,520 actually chose not to go that direction where you kind of, you 1015 01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:12,720 even showed here look that from boom, like, you know what I 1016 01:07:12,720 --> 01:07:14,720 mean? Right, I think I think that the 1017 01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:17,400 problem with that is he would have to also say it about non 1018 01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:18,880 Jews to. Say it about the black. 1019 01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:23,960 OK, it's not so. Simple, although it's different 1020 01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:27,600 because Boeing, but you can say show that's. 1021 01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:29,960 That I think that would be the problem for him. 1022 01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:31,840 I gotcha. I I think he also. 1023 01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:36,720 I think also we have to understand, you know, people as 1024 01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:39,880 brilliant as they are, they, they, you know, they are 1025 01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:42,240 products of their time. And yeah. 1026 01:07:43,160 --> 01:07:45,800 It's makes me think of like the Balatanya, you might say 1027 01:07:45,800 --> 01:07:49,720 something disparaging or let's say consider a goy lesser. 1028 01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:54,040 Even though tradition, we don't really have so much most most of 1029 01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:56,680 the traditions that we follow today is all about, you know, 1030 01:07:56,680 --> 01:07:59,360 like Hashem loves all of his creations equally and we have 1031 01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:02,480 different roles. But you, you see something like 1032 01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:06,120 from the Balatania, for example, not, you know, you have to 1033 01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:08,240 understand where he's coming from because, or even in the 1034 01:08:08,240 --> 01:08:11,200 Talmud, there's some statements, let's say that that maybe we 1035 01:08:11,200 --> 01:08:14,000 might look at it, you know, sideways, because they were 1036 01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:18,520 dealing with brutal, vicious, you know, non Jews who were, who 1037 01:08:18,520 --> 01:08:20,600 were, let's say that comes Brahms in their time. 1038 01:08:20,840 --> 01:08:23,920 So obviously that that I would think that that influence. 1039 01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:28,520 That plays a role, yeah. Must play a role and, and I do 1040 01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:31,560 I, I do want to touch on the next thing, but I think the next 1041 01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:35,600 thing we kind of discussed, which is book 3, tradition 1042 01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:39,080 versus, you know, the balance between irrational inquiry and 1043 01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:43,520 adherence to tradition. I think you've kind of explained 1044 01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:45,840 that, but if you want to touch on that a little bit, I. 1045 01:08:45,960 --> 01:08:49,040 Just mentioned one thing in that connection that, you know, we, 1046 01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:53,960 we do find that if, if he found in the Talmud that the rabbis 1047 01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:57,439 believed in something, he would tend to believe in it. 1048 01:08:57,439 --> 01:09:01,279 So amulets, you know, the power of amulets or the power of or, 1049 01:09:01,279 --> 01:09:04,640 or the, the existence of demons, you know, these kinds of things 1050 01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:07,479 that we find in the Talmud. He said, well, you know, the 1051 01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:10,640 rabbis believed in it. So I'm, I'm accepting it as 1052 01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:13,399 well. So, you know, he, he was very 1053 01:09:13,399 --> 01:09:15,520 traditional in, in certain respects. 1054 01:09:16,200 --> 01:09:19,240 So the, the, you mentioned that, you know, Kabbalah was something 1055 01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:23,640 that he was also familiar with that obviously played a role as 1056 01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:28,080 well in his thinking, which is there, there were some obviously 1057 01:09:28,080 --> 01:09:32,000 who championed Rambam, some of the early capitalists and some 1058 01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:35,640 of them who did not. So I think that is also very 1059 01:09:35,640 --> 01:09:39,600 apparent here. Very, very interesting. 1060 01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:44,120 I, we're learning a lot about crescas, which we, I, I didn't 1061 01:09:44,120 --> 01:09:45,279 know a lot of this stuff about him. 1062 01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:49,040 And I wanted to, I'm just curious because you mentioned 1063 01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:52,560 that he was like, he wrote, he wrote something against a 1064 01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:54,320 Christianity or a Christian polemic. 1065 01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:58,880 So it's interesting because I would say the highlight of, of 1066 01:09:59,040 --> 01:10:02,520 Christianity is, let's say like God's love, right? 1067 01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:05,440 But they don't have the commandments or some would 1068 01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:06,920 actually observe the commandments still. 1069 01:10:06,920 --> 01:10:11,720 So I'm wondering how he kind of saw that, you know, dynamic. 1070 01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:16,240 Good question, SO. You have to understand that he 1071 01:10:16,240 --> 01:10:20,280 was facing a Jewish community that was decimated by conversion 1072 01:10:20,280 --> 01:10:30,400 to Christianity and fought very, very hard to bring people back. 1073 01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:38,560 The Lord, I think and certainly of this Bhitul E Carrera not 1074 01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:40,800 three in the reputation of Christian principles. 1075 01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:45,200 He he wrote a very straightforward book showing 1076 01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:47,200 that all these Christian doctrines are nonsense. 1077 01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:49,200 You know, that was that was the point of the book. 1078 01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:55,040 He thought the way Jesus was treated was unjust. 1079 01:10:55,120 --> 01:10:58,560 Why should he suffer for all mankind, You know, these kinds 1080 01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:02,320 of things. He, he was just adamant about 1081 01:11:02,320 --> 01:11:06,040 the superiority of the Jewish view to the Christian view of 1082 01:11:06,040 --> 01:11:10,720 God and, and everything else. And, you know, those were the 1083 01:11:10,720 --> 01:11:13,800 days of debates and, you know, forced debates and all these 1084 01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:16,800 kinds of things. And he he stood his ground and. 1085 01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:23,000 Yeah, well, there there is a natural appeal to this God of 1086 01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:26,280 love, right? Emphasis on love and an 1087 01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:30,800 intellect, which is which. I guess he was responding to the 1088 01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:33,560 the threat of Christianity and all the forced conversions and 1089 01:11:33,560 --> 01:11:36,960 everything or people being coerced into being Christian 1090 01:11:37,240 --> 01:11:41,280 that he almost had to. I'm, I'm, I'm just giving my own 1091 01:11:41,320 --> 01:11:43,080 ideas. I could be wrong, but it almost 1092 01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:46,400 seems like he's showing that, hey, Judaism has that too. 1093 01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:48,760 That's what the essence of Judaism is. 1094 01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:50,760 But we also have the mitzvot, so. 1095 01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:52,680 You don't have to look there, you can have it here. 1096 01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:59,680 Exactly right. I, I, I think that for him, our 1097 01:11:59,680 --> 01:12:02,920 God is the God of love. We don't need him to become a 1098 01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:08,320 human being in order in order to, to have his love. 1099 01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:12,040 So I think for him, you know, that was an important, an 1100 01:12:12,040 --> 01:12:16,920 important point. And I think one of the big 1101 01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:22,000 objections he would have to Maimonides slash Aristotle is 1102 01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:24,320 that their God can't love anybody. 1103 01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:29,240 So I think for me, the big difference between Maimonides 1104 01:12:29,240 --> 01:12:32,720 and Aristotle, it is that Maimonides loved God. 1105 01:12:32,720 --> 01:12:35,560 It was an intellectual kind of love, but it was a kind of love. 1106 01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:38,200 I don't think Aristotle had any love for God at all. 1107 01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:42,680 So I would say Maimonides was a religious person, Aristotle was 1108 01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:47,880 not, But neither of them could have a God who loved you back. 1109 01:12:48,760 --> 01:12:53,400 So I think Crescas really was pulling away from that notion of 1110 01:12:53,400 --> 01:12:55,960 goddess and intellect, intellecting himself. 1111 01:12:55,960 --> 01:12:59,480 And what else could he intellect, you know, And 1112 01:12:59,480 --> 01:13:04,480 substituting a more Jewish God, a God of love, a God of 1113 01:13:04,480 --> 01:13:08,520 relationships, of prophecy, of caring, all that. 1114 01:13:09,560 --> 01:13:14,080 My understanding, at least from Maimonides, is that even if a 1115 01:13:14,080 --> 01:13:18,480 person's not going to reach the supreme levels of prophecy or 1116 01:13:18,480 --> 01:13:24,320 whatnot, there is, there is, there is still something there 1117 01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:26,720 for every single person. It's a it's a longer discussion. 1118 01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:29,920 But I don't think what no, I agree with. 1119 01:13:29,960 --> 01:13:32,680 I agree with that. I mean that there's something 1120 01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:38,720 for everyone else but but the the end of of human existence, 1121 01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:42,880 the bonding with God that's reserved for a very tiny 1122 01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:44,280 minority. I mean this. 1123 01:13:44,440 --> 01:13:48,320 Is this is a podcast where we litigate, you know, different 1124 01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:51,880 perspectives on rumbum people. People have, you know, they say 1125 01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:56,000 my manatees, your manatees people are like Len Goodman and 1126 01:13:56,160 --> 01:13:57,280 kind of Seaskin. And. 1127 01:13:57,760 --> 01:14:02,600 Kellner and or different. There's different understandings 1128 01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:08,760 and I think that it's important for us to know that when we're 1129 01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:11,440 talking about the Rishonim that even though there's a lot of 1130 01:14:11,440 --> 01:14:13,680 common, there's a lot of commonality, There's also 1131 01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:16,000 differences of opinion. And there's the influence of 1132 01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:18,200 Kabbalah and there's the influence of, you know, the Jews 1133 01:14:18,200 --> 01:14:22,080 who lived in, in, in the Islamic parts of the world or they lived 1134 01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:23,720 in, in Christian parts of the world. 1135 01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:27,320 All of that plays into a lot of how people thought. 1136 01:14:28,160 --> 01:14:31,920 And I think that that's why this is a very relevant, this is the 1137 01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:37,360 last point we wanted to get into was why is this a relevant area 1138 01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:40,360 of study for the modern day reader? 1139 01:14:41,360 --> 01:14:44,600 I think the simple answer to that is that it's a deeply 1140 01:14:44,600 --> 01:14:49,680 philosophical book, and as long as philosophical questions are 1141 01:14:50,480 --> 01:14:55,800 relevant, this book is relevant. The big, the, the big reason 1142 01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:59,640 that the biggest reason that I would recommend reading Crescas 1143 01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:02,320 is because of how inspiring he is. 1144 01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:04,640 He's inspiring in the way Rabi Akiva was. 1145 01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:06,920 He's inspiring in the way Socrates was. 1146 01:15:07,560 --> 01:15:11,880 You, you get the sense of someone whose life really is 1147 01:15:11,880 --> 01:15:14,120 devoted to God and to the Jewish people. 1148 01:15:15,040 --> 01:15:21,680 Not the only one, of course, but someone who for whom that was so 1149 01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:24,560 important that really nothing else mattered. 1150 01:15:25,400 --> 01:15:29,920 And I I find that utterly inspiring and and completely 1151 01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:33,320 relevant. Absolutely, Absolutely. 1152 01:15:34,480 --> 01:15:38,560 Well, this was really a pleasure and we learned so much from you 1153 01:15:39,120 --> 01:15:39,800 and. Thank you. 1154 01:15:39,800 --> 01:15:42,560 It's my pleasure. We we hope to have you on to 1155 01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:44,720 discuss Plato whenever your book comes out. 1156 01:15:44,960 --> 01:15:48,320 I would love that. And this was really amazing, so 1157 01:15:48,320 --> 01:15:50,080 thank you so much. You're very welcome. 1158 01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:51,960 Thank you for having we. Appreciate everything, have a 1159 01:15:51,960 --> 01:15:53,800 great evening. Thank you to you. 1160 01:15:53,880 --> 01:15:54,040 Bye bye.