1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:05,560 Welcome to Judaism Demystified, a podcast for the perplexed. 2 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:09,320 Join us as we explore some of the most fascinating Jewish and 3 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:12,200 Torah related topics with our esteemed guests. 4 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,560 By tackling some of the biggest questions you likely won't find 5 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:19,000 addressed elsewhere, we aim to shed light on important issues 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,600 and inspire a return to the fundamentals. 7 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:32,880 Enjoy the show. Thank you Professor Rosenbaum 8 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:34,760 for joining the Judaism Demystified podcast. 9 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:38,400 Before we begin, I'd like to 1st give a thank you to our friend 10 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:40,360 Dave Chaverti, who introduced us to you. 11 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,760 It's an honor to have you on and by first. 12 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,120 Like with most of our guests, we always we usually ask if you 13 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,200 could tell us a little bit about yourself before you begin. 14 00:00:50,480 --> 00:00:53,200 Well, Ben and Benzie, thanks for including me tonight's 15 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:57,000 broadcast. You have a really great podcast. 16 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,920 You had some great guests and I'm happy to be part of the 17 00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:02,960 roster. My name is Dane Rosenbaum. 18 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,880 I am a novelist and a law professor. 19 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,200 I was born in New York City. My parents were Holocaust 20 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,920 survivors. They moved to Miami Beach, FL, 21 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:18,360 where I was largely raised. I have lived in New York for 22 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:19,880 many years. I was a Wall Street lawyer. 23 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:22,480 I've been a law professor for 35 years. 24 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:27,600 I've published 5 literary novels that have post Holocaust themes 25 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,360 to them. So it, my career is sort of, you 26 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:35,280 know, not common because I'm, yes, I'm a law professor. 27 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,720 But even my non fiction books, like the one I think we're going 28 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,720 to discuss today, beyond proportionality, they're written 29 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:43,080 for people. They're not written for 30 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,120 academics. I don't write for academics. 31 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:49,320 I have a weekly essay that comes out in the Jewish Journal of Los 32 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:51,360 Angeles. It's usually picked up in the 33 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,320 Jewish News Syndicate. It comes out every Sunday and 34 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,040 again, I write for people and all the non fiction books that 35 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:00,920 I've written. Also five are not scholarships 36 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:06,040 scholarly works. So I sort of somewhere between 37 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,000 although I've been affiliated with universities and I'm now a 38 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,640 distinguished university professor at Turo University, 39 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:14,400 but I had been in at NYU law school. 40 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,360 I've been at Fordham Law school. I'm I'm old, I've been around. 41 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,360 So I have a, you know, a career that is a little different 42 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,920 because I, I people say, you know, yes, I'm a professor, but 43 00:02:24,920 --> 00:02:27,840 I think of myself as a public intellectual because I don't, 44 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:32,280 I'm really here for the public, not for scholarship, although 45 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:33,800 I've been a teacher for many years. 46 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,640 You know, the fact that I, you know, that I write novels. 47 00:02:37,640 --> 00:02:41,440 I have a nonprofit, the Forum on Life, Culture and Society, which 48 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,040 is called folks.org. And it's a talk show. 49 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:47,000 And then it's just a talk show for, you know it and all kinds 50 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:51,080 of topic topics, including culture and most everything that 51 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:52,800 I've done. You can find it on 52 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:56,120 famerosenbaum.com my my website. Yeah. 53 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:57,720 And you've interviewed, for those who don't know, you've 54 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,240 interviewed the, you know, some of the biggest names in the 55 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,440 world. This is true. 56 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:03,920 I appreciate the way you describe it. 57 00:03:03,920 --> 00:03:06,520 Yes. Nobel Prize winners, Tony 58 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,880 winners, Oscar winners, Golden Globe winners, Pulitzer Prize 59 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,960 winners, National Book Award winners, Supreme Court justices, 60 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:19,400 President Clinton, governors, US Senators and again and, and 61 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:21,960 people in the cultural world so and, and in books. 62 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:23,920 So yes, thank you for pointing that out. 63 00:03:23,920 --> 00:03:27,960 There amazing, amazing. So I want to begin by asking if 64 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,560 you can walk us through your experience publishing and 65 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,280 promoting your book Beyond Proportionality and how it 66 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,240 relates to the current anti Zionist sentiment. 67 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:42,960 Well, I it it you, this starts earlier than the 2023 war. 68 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:47,440 It's actually starts the genesis of it started in the last Gaza 69 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:57,360 war back in 2014, because it was in that time that I wrote an 70 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:01,480 op-ed for the Wall Street Journal and talked about the the 71 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,720 way Palestinians, Gazans were being spoken of as innocent 72 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:06,760 civilians. And I wrote as the law 73 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:08,840 professor, I said, look why? They could be civilians, but 74 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,440 they're not necessarily innocent civilians. 75 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,840 And, and I said the Geneva Convention had never imagined 76 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:19,920 Gazans who would not evacuate homes, who would be prepared to 77 00:04:19,959 --> 00:04:22,240 sacrifice their children as human Shields. 78 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,440 This is not how the Geneva Convention understood the 79 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:27,920 behavior, the psychology of civilians. 80 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,880 So, you know, you can be a civilian, but you can also be 81 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:35,640 an, a complicit civilian. You know, So I that essay got an 82 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,800 enormous amount of attention, all negative for the most part. 83 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:43,640 And but it was an honest essay, but it got it was picked up 84 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:46,600 around the world because, you know, you're not supposed to 85 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,280 question how Palestinians die if they die. 86 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:53,680 And the only people who seem to get killed in Gaza are children. 87 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,480 They don't seem Israel can't seem to kill anyone else but 88 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:58,240 children. It's just so preposterous. 89 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:02,440 So that I wrote an honest essay that that got an enormous amount 90 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:06,480 of negative attention. So shortly after the 2023 war 91 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:10,760 started, literally within weeks, I got a call from an editor who 92 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:12,840 said I saw, I remember that essay you wrote. 93 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,120 This is going to get much worse. He predicted. 94 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,600 It's going to be much worse. The anti Zionist crusade is 95 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,080 going to be much worse. He had no idea the war would go 96 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,040 that long, but he just predicted. 97 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,000 He said, I think we should do a book. 98 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:29,560 And I, I balked for a number of reasons at first. 99 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:31,320 First of my family didn't want me to do it. 100 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,080 I already get death threats as it is. 101 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,000 For years, my family didn't want me to do it. 102 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,800 My agent refused to represent the books. 103 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,040 I had to fire her. I ended up deciding to do the 104 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:45,320 book. My agent for 30 years, she 105 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:47,160 published, we published 10 books together. 106 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:49,680 She refused. She's Jewish, but literally 107 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:51,600 refused to be part of the process. 108 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,040 So I fired her. I, I spoke at her husband's 109 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,080 funeral. That's how ridiculous this is. 110 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:58,640 You know, I spoke at her husband's funeral. 111 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:02,000 I took him to his surgeries when he had this, this is the 112 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:03,680 relationship. So I fired her. 113 00:06:03,840 --> 00:06:05,240 I'm and I'm thrilled that I fired. 114 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:11,080 This is the, this is the I was told before the book came out 115 00:06:11,280 --> 00:06:13,120 that no bookstore would carry the book. 116 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:17,000 You can only get it online, Amazon or barnesandnoble.com or 117 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,640 ingram.com. But no bookstore would hold 118 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,280 carry it because their employees would quit. 119 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,240 So this is this is what I was told even before the book came 120 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:31,280 out. And many events that were 121 00:06:31,280 --> 00:06:35,320 scheduled were canceled. So when, you know, there wasn't 122 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,200 a thought of a book tour, but there were many even events, you 123 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:42,640 know, that were public events were flat out cancelled by some 124 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:46,240 instances of Jewish institutions that just did not like the 125 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:47,920 threats that they were receiving. 126 00:06:48,280 --> 00:06:50,280 And so I was getting calls constantly. 127 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,400 And even the events that I did, there was no promotion of it 128 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,480 online. So I did events that normally 129 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:02,040 would be promoted online, but instead became more intimate 130 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:05,040 gatherings like in a synagogue that would normally promote it 131 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,960 decided not to promote it because they didn't want the the 132 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:12,160 response, the backlash. So, you know, the book, it's, 133 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:14,800 it's gotten, you know, really good reviews. 134 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,920 And I I know that Ben See read it and seems to. 135 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:23,440 Appreciate it, fantastic book. Well, thank you, but the book 136 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:28,920 was already sabotaged early on that the idea was to not call 137 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,320 attention to it. And I was telling you before we 138 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,640 got online, I, I, you know, a very, a good friend of mine was 139 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,520 a very famous actress and I won't mention her name. 140 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,200 She wouldn't, she refused to even have me send it to her. 141 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,000 She doesn't want to have it in her house. 142 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:46,440 And this is an intelligent person. 143 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:48,480 And I said, I don't, I don't understand what you're talking 144 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:49,480 about. I want to send it to you. 145 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:50,640 You could read it. We can discuss. 146 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,880 I don't want it. And that it to me represents 147 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,520 really the theme of what's happened since October 7th, 148 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,520 which is we have an opportunity to hate Jews now. 149 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,040 This is a golden opportunity. We're not going to have it 150 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,280 anymore. This is an opportunity that we 151 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:09,840 can blame it on Jews because we are social justice warriors and 152 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,880 crusaders. We are human rights activists. 153 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:17,040 And so we have the moral authority to now hate Jews. 154 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:21,360 And because of what Israel's done, and we don't want to hear 155 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:23,960 anyone. We don't want to hear a rational 156 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,440 as you know, Ben C for having read beyond proportionality. 157 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,760 It's calm, it's measured. It just takes you through the 158 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:32,559 history, the anecdotes, as you know. 159 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:37,400 I even talk about movies. You know, you know I Ben Hur 160 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,679 Exodus. Patriot, I believe. 161 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:45,520 The Patriot. Yeah, I'm trying to remember 162 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:47,080 that other film with Peter O'Toole. 163 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:50,720 It'll come to me. But anyway, it is it is is. 164 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:52,600 That Lawrence of Arabia. Yeah, Lawrence of Arabia. 165 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:55,000 I talk about Lawrence of Arabia the book. 166 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,880 As I said, you know, my writings are really for people. 167 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,960 They're not for academics. And if a person read this book, 168 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,920 if any of your listeners read it over a weekend, you will, you 169 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:08,960 will be shocked at how little you'll never hear this stuff. 170 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:12,160 No one covers it. No one tells you any of the 171 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:17,600 things that I point out, the history, you know of that area, 172 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:22,800 the laws of war, the Internet, laws of humanitarian 173 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:27,760 international law, the laws of armed conflict, the laws of war 174 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,160 manual. You know the things, the sense 175 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:33,760 of what international law and how people should understand 176 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,600 Israel's just war in Gaza. And instead of what you would 177 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:41,240 get out of my book, you only hear one word, genocide, which 178 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,800 is just utterly preposterous because it's the only time that 179 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,920 the word has been used in the context of a war. 180 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:52,320 In no other case, even the Bosnian genocide, the world 181 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,760 recognized it was largely a civil war. 182 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:59,600 And only this, the one incident of Sabrensia is considered 183 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:03,880 genocidal in Bosnia because everyone recognizes if you're in 184 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:08,080 a war, you're not in a you're not in, you're not in in a 185 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,440 genocidal environment. And the death, the very 186 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:16,160 definition of genocide just right off the bat like this is 187 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,120 if a person, if you want to shut up, a stupid person who's 188 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,160 screaming in your face. If there's a lot of people who 189 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,480 are very stupid, ignorant, they haven't read anything, they 190 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,080 don't know anything and they're just screaming the word 191 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:30,120 genocide. The the, the definition of 192 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,600 genocide that was passed by all the world's nations through the 193 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,480 Convention on the Punishment and Prevention of Genocide, which 194 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,920 was through the United Nations, means that you have to have a 195 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:44,480 specific intent to eliminate a people in whole or in part. 196 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:46,920 You have to have the intent to do that. 197 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:50,400 So if you're in a war, your intent is not to eliminate 198 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:52,360 people in whole or in part. You're fighting a war. 199 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,400 And the minute, in Israel's case, the moment you had 200 00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:01,840 evacuation warnings and humanitarian corridors, 201 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:06,720 evacuation warnings and humanitarian corners, it's ball 202 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:08,240 game. It's over, right? 203 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,720 It's over because the minute Israel's saying, look, we're 204 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:13,000 fighting a war against terrorists that attacked us on 205 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:17,360 October 7th and we're creating humanitarian corridors for 206 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:21,440 civilians to go and we're warning them in advance, we're 207 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,840 doing something no army would do, which is telling Hamas this 208 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:26,160 is what we're going to do tomorrow. 209 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:29,720 We're giving you our playbook. No army actually predicts, 210 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:31,720 telegraphs what they're about to do. 211 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:33,960 Israel's saying this is what we're going to do tomorrow. 212 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,320 And we are going to show, we're going to send messages to all 213 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:42,520 the civilians by way of so many methods, leaflets, cell phones, 214 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:47,160 text messages. They send down broadcast signals 215 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:52,000 on parachutes in Arabic, essentially telling people in, 216 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,560 in Arabic, it comes down from the sky. 217 00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:57,800 And it says if you live in such and such a building tomorrow at 218 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,880 4:00, it'll be eliminated. Your specific humanitarian 219 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,240 corridor is located over there, right? 220 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:08,280 These steps, again, evacuation warnings and humanitarian 221 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:12,200 corridor in the context of war means it cannot be called the 222 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,480 genocide. It cannot because the the actual 223 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,080 definition. And let me just say, genocide 224 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,920 scholars know this, international lawyers know this. 225 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:24,320 They don't care. This is not rocket scientist. 226 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,160 I'm just giving you something that's pretty basic. 227 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:29,520 Everyone knows this. So they've decided to change the 228 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:32,720 definition of genocide in order to hate Jews. 229 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,160 So before we get into more of that, because I think it's very 230 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:39,280 important people understand the whole proportionality argument. 231 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,240 That's very important. And also besides, besides the 232 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:46,120 term genocide, there's also ethnic cleansing is thrown 233 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:47,720 around. But before we get into that, I 234 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,720 actually want to understand more about, you know, the Jewish 235 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,640 friends of yours that you kind of, you know, they kind of 236 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:57,520 turned your back, their backs on you and the psychology behind 237 00:12:57,520 --> 00:12:59,760 that. Because I understand how someone 238 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,280 who is an outsider could be captured when propaganda is 239 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:05,520 everywhere on social media and you don't know what to believe. 240 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,960 And, and it's just like, you see, you know, kids on campuses 241 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:10,600 and you, you get riled up. I get that. 242 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,960 But what I don't understand is how is it that these, what, what 243 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,520 is the psychology behind these Jews who are like, I don't even 244 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:18,400 want to read your book. I don't even want to hear the 245 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,520 arguments. What, what do you think this 246 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:22,200 comes from? Is this just fear of them 247 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:23,760 getting cancelled or is it actual? 248 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:27,120 Have they been convinced as well that that we've been the the 249 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:31,120 Israelis are evil and so on? I look, I think Jews by and 250 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,680 large have very low self esteem. I think it's a problem in the 251 00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:39,360 people they want most Jews want to sit at the cool kids table in 252 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,760 high school, and they're not invited to do it. 253 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:46,160 And so they will do. They will do and say anything to 254 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,960 be accepted by their neighbors and friends and their roommates. 255 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,680 And this is just what I call moral narcissism. 256 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:57,360 Look at me, Look at me. I'm a Jewish person, but I hate 257 00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,840 myself. I hate my people. 258 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:02,640 I hate Israel. Look at me, Look at me. 259 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:06,680 I planted a tree in Israel when I was 10 and now I can't love 260 00:14:06,680 --> 00:14:08,480 Israel anymore. Look at me. 261 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:12,920 What a good person I am. They do this in order to sell 262 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:16,320 themselves, to promote themselves to their communities. 263 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,240 I don't believe. Yes, there are some people, you 264 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,280 know, who are, yes, progressives. 265 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:26,240 The Donald Trump factor has a lot to do with it because many 266 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:30,800 Jews who are Democrats, like Democrats, hate Donald Trump 267 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:32,320 more than anything else they can think of. 268 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:34,240 It's the most important thing. They don't. 269 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:36,360 It's the most important thing in their identity. 270 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:40,080 And, and so because they hate him so much, they can't focus on 271 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,240 anything else. So it's shocking to me, Like I 272 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,880 run into people all the time and they're like you, they're always 273 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,680 very either critical of me or, you know, they, they see my 274 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:54,160 essays or the book as as a racist book because you can't 275 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,440 possibly defend Israel. You'd be in a terrible person in 276 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,920 order to do that. And I often times say to them, 277 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,640 but I don't know with you guys. I say, look, I if I know them, I 278 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:07,280 say, but you have two daughters and they look at me like they 279 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,080 don't understand. I'm saying, I said, do you 280 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,200 understand what would have happened to your two daughters? 281 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:15,920 I said, I have children who who went on gap years, one of whom 282 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:17,120 definitely would have been there. 283 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,800 Now, how is it that you don't understand that what happened on 284 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,640 October 7th? This is not like the attack on 285 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:27,720 Pearl Harbor when you're knocking out military vessels 286 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:32,400 and aircraft, you the level of barbarism that took place. 287 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:39,520 Gang raping teenage girls, mutilating their genitalia, you 288 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:44,200 know, torching and burning alive babies, right? 289 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,360 This is not how wars normally start. 290 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,280 Everything about it is just utter barbarism, right? 291 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:52,920 The taking of hostages, everyone who was killed was largely A 292 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,960 civilian, either elderly. So you know when you think of 293 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,600 wars and how war starts, they don't start like this. 294 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:02,080 And that's what's really so shocking about this. 295 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:06,120 You would think that after what happened on October 7th, young 296 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:10,640 people around the world would said they were in a music 297 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:14,520 concert and this happened to people our age. 298 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,680 And boyfriends were were required to watch their 299 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,080 girlfriends gang raped and then they were killed after they 300 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,760 watched their girlfriends being gang gang raped and babies were 301 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:29,000 being burned alive and Grant and grandmothers were being, you 302 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:32,560 know, taken hostage. We are outraged by this. 303 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,680 We are gonna fly right now to Egypt and to insist that we 304 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:38,400 fight Hamas. We're not. 305 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:42,120 This could have been us. Nobody was willing to identify 306 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:43,600 with the young Jews that scanned. 307 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,880 They were all civilians. And so that's why you saw very 308 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:51,560 early on the tearing down of the posters as if to say we will not 309 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:55,120 show any sympathy to you. We won't even look at the photos 310 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,600 of who the hostages are. We're going to deny the rapes 311 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,920 because really real only interested if you kill a brown 312 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,520 skinned person who's a Muslim. We're only going to get 313 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:06,400 interested. We are not interested in what 314 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:10,119 happened on October 7th because as they said, you don't get to 315 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:14,240 decide how we resist or those are the terms of art or what's 316 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,200 the other one. By any means necessary. 317 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,400 By any means necessary is used as a sentence, as a phrase to 318 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,640 say, of course we needed to gain rape Jewish girls, of course, 319 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,440 because that would that means was necessary. 320 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,240 Of course we needed to cut off their breasts. 321 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:31,640 Of course. Violence is resistance as. 322 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,080 Violence is resistance. These terms were created in 323 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,720 order to justify the barbarism. They they knew they had a little 324 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:42,640 problem there. You know, even on yon Sinwar, ya 325 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:46,320 ya Sinwar was surprised at the level of barbarism. 326 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:48,960 He even was surprised because what people don't remember is 327 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:53,400 6000 people invaded southern Israel on October 7th, right? 328 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:55,840 But 2000 of the 600 were civilians. 329 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,560 So stop talking about innocent civilians. 330 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,200 This is nonsense. There really aren't any real 331 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,720 innocent civilians in Gaza. I think I think one of the most 332 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,720 glaring and eye opening things, and I think part of it has to do 333 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,400 with the fact that I don't think Israel has done a great job 334 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,080 with, you know, getting their message across to the world. 335 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,280 I think focusing on, on it's a separate topic really, But I 336 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,240 think what, what is really glaring about what happened is 337 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,880 that, you know, you hear in, in in Germany or you know what, 338 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:27,320 during the Holocaust, you heard, you always heard that there were 339 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,320 these non Jews who hid Jews and, and, you know, in their 340 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:31,960 basements and so on in their attics. 341 00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:35,880 And you know, they were, there were some great people who 342 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,720 risked their lives and and protected Jews and try to help 343 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:40,600 them. And you, you don't, you didn't 344 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,520 hear one story. You have all these, all these 345 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,080 witnesses, you have all these hostages who said that they, 346 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,440 they treated us so horribly and not one person tried to help. 347 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,440 And I think that's. Right. 348 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,240 Well, that's an as you, as you said, Ben, to me, that is a, you 349 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:58,040 know, exhibit A indictment of the Gazan people, right, that 350 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:01,760 there are nobody who would have hit and Frank nobody, not a 351 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,000 single person. If anything, they're saying we 352 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,200 have we're civilians, but we're happy to take us hostage and 353 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,440 sexually assault a hostage. If you we're happy to keep them 354 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:12,800 in luck. You know, we're happy to not 355 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,000 feed them. We're happy to be part of this 356 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,040 in any way. And we're not we have you know, 357 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,400 we're all gonna either. We're not even bystanders. 358 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,920 We're we want to be accomplices, which is why I'm saying that 359 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,000 when you think about the complicity and the what, what 360 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,720 you know under the laws of war, if you are assisting in 361 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,840 providing material aid and comfort, you've what the term of 362 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:35,200 art is. You've joined the fight. 363 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,680 You don't have to have an official card that says Hamas. 364 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:43,600 If you are providing material aid and comfort, if you are 365 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:48,000 assisting in the ways that Gazan people did, not just in keeping 366 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:52,040 hostages, but you know, when the Israelis were going through 367 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:56,320 Gaza, they couldn't find almost any apartment that didn't have 368 00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:00,520 guns hidden underneath the floorboards, some cases of the 369 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:02,320 floorboards of the children's rooms. 370 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:06,520 Every house was set up that Hamas could end up coming into 371 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:10,920 it and could reload, rearm. Everyone was involved in some 372 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:12,920 way. If your apartment or your house 373 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,480 is used as a communication or command center, you've joined 374 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,120 the fight. And if your house is blown up, 375 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:20,800 you have to understand why that happened. 376 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,920 And you don't seem to care because you don't, You seem to 377 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,840 think that being a martyr is more important than saving your 378 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,520 children's lives. But the problem is, which is the 379 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,440 problem with my agent, most people are just ignorant. 380 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,960 They don't know and #1 and #2 they don't want to know. 381 00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:39,160 They want to believe that everyone that's their neighbor 382 00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:44,360 on Park Ave. or in Brentwood, CA or wherever they are, that 383 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,520 they're the all people are the same, right? 384 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,560 I don't know anybody who would martyr their children. 385 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,560 Well, their argument will be not that everyone is the same, but 386 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,640 given the same opportunity. Like, for example, just playing 387 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:57,840 devil's advocate, but they're there. 388 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,440 They would say that, you know, they've been raised these 389 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,720 children and mostly young people, you know, teenagers 390 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,960 fighting in Gaza. You know, they were raised by, 391 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:08,040 by Hamas. So they don't have. 392 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:09,600 We didn't really have a choice in the matter. 393 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,760 And there's all these excuses. But like at the same time no. 394 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:13,160 But they were raised by their parents. 395 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:14,720 They weren't. Raised and that's what I wanted 396 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:16,400 to say they. Were raised by parents who 397 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,840 supported Hamas. Hamas after October 7th was had 398 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,680 never been more popular. So it's not like the Gazans said 399 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:29,520 holy crap I can't believe what Hamas and some civilians just 400 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:31,360 did. We don't want this under our 401 00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:33,680 name. This will be a stain on our 402 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,320 people for eternity. No one said that they had never 403 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,000 received. Remember when the hostages were 404 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,040 brought in, people were spitting on them. 405 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,160 Corpses were being dragged in the streets. 406 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,320 On camera. On camera. 407 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,640 On camera, dragged through the streets, corpses. 408 00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:55,760 One of the anecdotes in the book that is the most horrific 1 is 409 00:21:55,760 --> 00:22:00,680 that a man who owned an ice cream parlor in Gaza City kept 410 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:06,280 the head of a, of an Israeli frozen in the ice cream because 411 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,440 he wanted to sell the head for $10,000, right? 412 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,520 Who does? Who does this? 413 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,760 So yes, my, my agent again, who's ignorant and doesn't read 414 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,600 anything and believes that everybody is the same. 415 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,400 I don't know anybody in my building in Park Ave. who would 416 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,360 do this. So then therefore it must be the 417 00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:25,600 case. She, she had a trouble within 418 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,880 the book. I said, you know, it says 419 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,760 Israelis value life more than Palestinians. 420 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,680 And she said, I can't be part of something like that. 421 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,520 And I said, you said that and I said I didn't say that. 422 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,920 They say that's what they're saying. 423 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,040 You just don't want to believe them because you don't let it's 424 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,960 very unflattering to the Palestinians and you don't want 425 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,600 to accept the possibility that that's exactly how they feel. 426 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,120 And because this makes you uncomfortable, you distance 427 00:22:52,120 --> 00:22:54,880 yourself from it. So again, people really weren't 428 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,960 looking at look taking an honest look at the Gazan people, an 429 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,480 honest look, an honest look what happened on October 7th and 430 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,920 said, I mean, I say in the book, and I take you through all 431 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,560 again, laws of international humanitarian law, laws of armed 432 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,440 conflict, Geneva Convention. When you look at the barbarism, 433 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:18,080 the rocket fire that continued even after the barbarism, the 434 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:22,320 rocket fire was headed where to Israeli civilian population 435 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,560 centers. The promise repeatedly by many 436 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:29,680 in Hamas, not not the day after, but for months. 437 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,000 We are going to do October 7th again and again and again. 438 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,160 They use the words again and again and again. 439 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,680 The complicity of the people, the taking of the hostages, the 440 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:44,080 fact that the Red Cross was not permitted to see the hostages. 441 00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:47,520 The fact that there was no talk of ceasefire or surrender or 442 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,560 laying down weapons. Under the laws of war, Israel 443 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,680 could do almost anything it wanted to, to fight back 444 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:58,240 anything they wanted to right. And I take you through the laws 445 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,960 of war, the law, what's called just war theory, and show you 446 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,720 how Israel conducted itself. And in my view, they conducted 447 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,600 itself way more morally and honorably than they needed to 448 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,280 because, as I said, if. You, I think you, I think you 449 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,320 even. I think you even mentioned that 450 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,920 you thought that they were too soft like to fault that they 451 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:16,920 were acting morally. Absolutely. 452 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:18,520 Yeah, I remember. This in the book. 453 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,280 No, I I just said if you look at what happened on October 7th and 454 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,560 look what was continually said after that, Hamas is still 455 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,120 recruiting people, right? They're not done. 456 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,320 So Israel may have vanquished them, but not really the the, 457 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:35,160 the under, under the laws of war, Israel has no 458 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:39,360 responsibility to leave Gaza until the threat is removed and 459 00:24:39,360 --> 00:24:41,560 established and established deterrence. 460 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,920 And if Hamas is still recruiting terrorists, we have not 461 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,560 established the Terrance. And I, I, I, I for one, was 462 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,680 critical. I do not think Israel should 463 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,560 have withdrawn from Gaza. I think there were still 464 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,160 terrorists that needed to be killed. 465 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:59,880 And let me just say this, if you were a civilian who gang raped 466 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:03,960 an Israeli girl, you must be made dead, right? 467 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,840 This is you are part of this. This is well, you don't get a 468 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,600 pass because you were. There's no justice. 469 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,400 Right. So I, I, I, I have been very 470 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,400 clear. If you gang raped or beheaded a, 471 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:19,480 a baby and your, your, your excuse is that you're not Hamas, 472 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,040 you must be made dead. And this war cannot be made over 473 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,760 until you are made dead. And so that so, so as I said, 474 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:31,920 Israel conducted itself under the laws of war to a tee. 475 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,680 But I would also stand. We can go through that if you 476 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:36,760 want. But I can say that given what 477 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,480 happened and what continued to happen and what is still 478 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:45,240 happening, the idea that Israel was required to a ceasefire is 479 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,440 nonsense under an international law. 480 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:52,240 Nonsense and also again, under laws of international 481 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,000 humanitarian law. Israel, you know, when they 482 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,840 responded, they were always looking, they have lawyers in 483 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:03,080 the room for each time rockets were fired, missiles were fired, 484 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:07,600 drone strikes. They were using the what was 485 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,040 called the precision weaponry. They had to pick the right 486 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,960 weapon for the right target, right? 487 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,120 And it, they had to judge it on the basis of military necessity. 488 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,720 This is not like Israel had gone, you know, did whatever 489 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,320 they wanted. No, they, they followed the laws 490 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,960 of proportionality and they were looking at the basic standards 491 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,520 of international law. Do we have verifiable 492 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,720 intelligence that what we're firing at is a target that has 493 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,320 significant military value, Right. 494 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,120 What does, what do we have? Again, Hamas didn't care. 495 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,040 They were just beheading babies and gang raping girls and they 496 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,120 fired rockets and civilians. Israel didn't do that. 497 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,040 Israel was saying, do we have intelligence that what we're 498 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,000 firing at? The question is always for under 499 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,640 international law, what are you aiming at? 500 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,800 What are you aiming at? Because if it has military 501 00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,320 value, if there's a military necessity, it doesn't matter 502 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:01,680 that civilians are going to be killed. 503 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,000 You may not like the way that sounds, but under under laws of 504 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,000 armed conflict, the only reason civilians are there, that's the 505 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:12,360 other thing. You know, 30% of the civilians 506 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,600 are friends and family of the terrorists and half of the 507 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,400 people that were killed were terrorists. 508 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,480 So that means 80% of the people that were killed in Gaza are 509 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,200 either terrorists or their friends and family. 510 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,480 And the friends and family, we're not going to humanitarian 511 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,680 corridors. So yes, they were killed, but 512 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,440 that doesn't violate international law. 513 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,920 Why? Because the targets were had 514 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,040 high significant military value and necessity. 515 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,840 And that's the question then becomes do we have the 516 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,320 verifiable intelligence? We know where we're shooting at, 517 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:46,520 firing at, and are we using the right weapon, And Israel has 518 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,520 lawyers that play that role to make sure that the rate, the 519 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,560 blast radius of the weapon is appropriate for the size of the 520 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,160 military target and the possibility of collateral 521 00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,000 damage. There was all this propaganda 522 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,520 that they were dropping, Israel dropping like these dumb bombs. 523 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,320 And they said, look, they showed these images of Gaza being 524 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,400 destroyed and like 70% of the buildings were destroyed. 525 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,320 But if less than 5% of the population were killed and 70% 526 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,040 of the buildings were destroyed, that means that Israel's really 527 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:16,120 doing its job and getting people to safety and, and not, you 528 00:28:16,120 --> 00:28:18,880 know, just haphazardly knocking down buildings while people are 529 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,360 inside. I think, I think the especially 530 00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:24,560 now with the people are buying the numbers by the Gaza Ministry 531 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,680 of Health, which is Hamas now. We're slowly starting to see 532 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,480 that the truth is coming out and you know, the numbers are much 533 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,760 lower in terms of civilian casualties and the ratio of 534 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,640 civilian to combatant is is is very low. 535 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:43,080 So The thing is, we live in the age of information and the news 536 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,280 comes out so fast. And but nobody verified those, 537 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,600 No one verifies, right. So none of the major mainstream 538 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:50,520 media, unlike they didn't do their jobs. 539 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,640 They took whatever the Gaza Health Ministry said. 540 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,960 Now, when the Henry Jackson's Think Tank Society, their think 541 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,400 tank took a look at Gaza's own numbers, right? 542 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,160 This is not outside verification. 543 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,200 This is the numbers reported by the Gaza Health Ministry. 544 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:11,200 They discovered that 11,000 of the victim of the casualties 545 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,320 were unidentifiable. That we didn't, you know, they 546 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:18,600 had the numbers themselves, didn't have the right IDs, 547 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:24,920 birthday names, women named Muhammad were listed as women 548 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,880 being killed. Children that were named, that 549 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,760 were people that were military age, they were given instead. 550 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,840 So someone who was 50 years old was all of a sudden a child, 551 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,160 5000 of the of the people that were killed died of natural 552 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,280 causes. A woman who is being treated for 553 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:48,400 cancer in a hospital in Gaza was treated as killed by Israelis. 554 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:50,280 She was being treated for cancer. 555 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,760 She's still alive, but the gods and health ministry listed her 556 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:55,840 as dead. So yes, the numbers were 557 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,440 preposterous. But this is not the first time 558 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,400 this has happened with the gods and health and ministry. 559 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,880 It happened in 2014 and it happened in 2009. 560 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,360 Everyone immediately publishes the numbers Hamas gives. 561 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,040 And then later, when everything calms down a little, we 562 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,360 discovered the numbers have been falsified. 563 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:18,440 So, you know, the, the very fact that children were being that 564 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,760 were listed as children were actually males, women were being 565 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:24,960 listed as dead who were actually males. 566 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,480 And there were 11,000 people that we, there was no 567 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,640 identification for them at all. They could have been anybody. 568 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,240 And is that and as I said, Israel continues to insist that 569 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,600 at least 50% they they're not saying 50%. 570 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,240 At some point when they said that the numbers are 40,000, 571 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,440 Israel said our numbers are that we've killed 20,000 terrorists. 572 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,320 It's possible that the numbers are actually much higher than 573 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,200 50%. But again, it wouldn't make a 574 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:53,720 difference because under the Law of war manual, the party that 575 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,760 places civilians near the fighting assumes responsibility 576 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,120 for their injury or death. If you put the civilians there, 577 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,040 Israel doesn't put them there. Israel's telling the civilians 578 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,840 to leave. So under the under international 579 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,320 law, under the law of war, Emmanuel, whoever's placing 580 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,000 civilians near the fighting assumes responsible for their 581 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,760 injury, injury. So blaming Israel for civilian 582 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:20,080 casualties in Gaza, again, it is is is inconsistent with 583 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,640 international law, but you won't hear anyone tell you that. 584 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,160 I think the, the sorry, just one, one last thing before 585 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,520 Betsy, you take it away. But one thing that's very 586 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,400 disturbing that people just ignore is like, I want to go 587 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,840 back to right after October 7th. You see these grandmothers in 588 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:37,680 the street giving out candy. It's kind of like what happened 589 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:42,720 after 911 and you see them elated like so some, some 590 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,760 mothers so happy that they're she's saying, I want my other 591 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,440 sons to be, you know, martyrs like that. 592 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,320 The it's such a different culture that it's almost sounds 593 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,800 unbelievable to people that, and it's crazy because, you know, 594 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,880 people would rather believe some conspiracy theory about, you 595 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,520 know, what is it that conspiracy after 911, the dancing Israelis 596 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:05,200 that was totally debunked. And they'll just hone in on that 597 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,800 instead of actually seeing like, how did, how did you know 598 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,840 Palestinians behave after that? And again, I, I do believe that 599 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,280 there's good people everywhere. There's that's not the point. 600 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,880 The point that you're making is that everyone is blowing this 601 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,800 whole thing out of proportion in terms of, you know, the civilian 602 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,360 casualties, because they are part of many of them are 603 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,080 actually part of this war and, and are very much involved and, 604 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,920 and want to keep doing this. And Israel, for whatever reason, 605 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,800 cannot get this message across. I don't know if it's just a lack 606 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,320 of good, you know, Hazbara or if you want to call it, but I feel 607 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,200 like it's really failing in this in this area. 608 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,280 And I'm wondering what you think could be done to change people's 609 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:46,880 minds. Is there? 610 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,720 Is it even worth trying? No, there's nothing that can be 611 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,800 done because we saw what happened very early on. 612 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,760 Everyone said this is about Israelis policy or Israel's 613 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,800 conduct of the war. But you know, restaurants were 614 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,240 being attacked in the United States, synagogues were being 615 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,360 attacked. There's no one who was asking 616 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,680 any of the Jews who they were attacking. 617 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,400 How you feel about the war? They were attacking Jews that 618 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,160 have no connection at all to what's going on in Israel. 619 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,440 For instance, one of the things that I talk about in the book, 620 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:21,320 there are 1,000,000 Muslims, they're called Uyghurs in China 621 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,040 who have been subject to concentration camps, false 622 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:29,360 sterilization, forced abortion. 1,000,000, right? 623 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:35,680 Not 10s of thousands but a million Chinese ethnic Muslims 624 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:41,640 are being tormented, persecuted and killed in China. 625 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:46,120 Has anyone attacked a Chinese restaurant in New York in or 626 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,040 anywhere in the American? Has anyone reached out and said 627 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,800 are you from China? Are you Chinese born and 628 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,800 attacked them on the streets because of what's happened to 629 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,800 the Uyghurs in China. That's why not. 630 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,240 You know, this is not this has nothing to do with Israel. 631 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:05,440 This is an excuse to be able to a license to hate Jews because 632 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,719 you know, most of the people that are being attacked, if 633 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,080 they're in, they're not there. They're not there in any Israeli 634 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,600 capacity. They just happen to be Jews 635 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,520 acting as Jews. Going to synagogue, attending, 636 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:21,080 going to a restaurant, going to a restaurant does not mean that 637 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,760 you have any position against Palestinians or that you believe 638 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:26,639 the war is being conducted properly. 639 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,880 And so, you know, that argument has lost itself. 640 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,600 It's lost all meaning because if you identify the people that are 641 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,360 being attacked, no one is attacking people based on their 642 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,600 views of the war. They're being attacked as 643 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:40,920 they're wearing a Yamaha. They're being attacked because 644 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,320 they know that they're Jewish or that they're being required as 645 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:49,040 Jews to public publicly disavow Israel, Chinese American that 646 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,840 you have to disavow mainland China or unless we won't let you 647 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,600 go to class, we won't let you go into this building. 648 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,320 So this is clearly based on anti-Semitism. 649 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,760 I don't think anything Israel could have done differently. 650 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,280 You know, I just think that yes, everyone always talks about has 651 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:06,920 bravo, but they're not factoring. 652 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,240 This is the world's oldest prejudice. 653 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:14,920 Anti-Semitism has been around older than any other hatred, and 654 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,720 when it resurfaces, it comes back in a vengeance. 655 00:35:17,720 --> 00:35:20,520 And we're living through that time now, especially if you 656 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:24,080 looked at global Jewry, you know, the United States is only 657 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:28,400 waking up to what French Jews, British Jews, Belgian Jews, 658 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:33,120 Swedish Jews and and Italian and Spanish Jews have known for 15 659 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,640 years. You know, where there have been 660 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,720 violence against Jews by Muslims and governments throughout 661 00:35:39,720 --> 00:35:42,440 Europe were refused to protect their Jews. 662 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,320 Why? Because the Muslims are violent 663 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,160 and there are a large number of the population now in Europe and 664 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,520 politicians were afraid to take them on. 665 00:35:51,720 --> 00:35:53,680 That's why there are no go zones. 666 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:58,560 That's why there are sections of, of, of, of these major 667 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,960 metropolitan areas of Europe that have Sharia law courts, 668 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:03,960 right? These are supposed to be, you 669 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,760 know, Western democracies, but they're living in fear of 670 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,720 Islamic violence. And so I don't know, I, I'm not 671 00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:13,520 sure what Israel could have done differently. 672 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,760 The first question you asked is just pathetic that Jews can't 673 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,760 stand up for themselves, that they're, they're interesting, 674 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,920 want to show the world that they're more righteous and more 675 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,880 virtuous and more moral than everyone else. 676 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,520 And the best way to show that is to say, look at me, I'm a Jew 677 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,000 and I hate my people and I will not defend them. 678 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:35,400 And the last thing is what you said before. 679 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,280 I mean, I think that, and I use that example with my agent. 680 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,680 There are people that simply live a very sheltered life and 681 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,840 they have no comprehension that there are mothers that are 682 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,680 prepared to make their children martyrs for some demented 683 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,520 Palestinian cause. It's incomprehensible. 684 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,560 That's why it's. It's it's inconceivable. 685 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,880 So it's so inconceivable that you just blame it. 686 00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:58,200 You got to blame Israel. Why? 687 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,080 Because I can't blame these Palestinian mothers, because I 688 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:02,800 refuse to believe that they would do that. 689 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,760 So it must be the Israeli mothers that are responsible. 690 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,240 It's their fault. Yeah. 691 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,600 So we touched upon. Actually, we, we kind of 692 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,680 discussed a lot of things in the next two questions that we 693 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,840 wanted to ask. But I will ask you to reframe 694 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,840 something you guys touched upon it. 695 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,160 But I think it's worth it to to give it its own segment as well. 696 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:32,320 Because in the 1st chapter you convey what is, in your 697 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,360 estimation, the chief reason why propaganda against Jews and four 698 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,520 Palestinian people work so well in the West. 699 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:40,960 Why does it? Why does it seem to be so 700 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:46,320 effective, the propaganda that works for the Palestinian people 701 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,880 and against Jewish people? Well, look, the world doesn't 702 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:51,400 care. When Muslims kill Muslims, 703 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,040 Muslims kill Muslims all the time. 704 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:57,120 The life of a Muslim is very cheap in that part of the world. 705 00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:58,800 Muslims kill Muslims all the time. 706 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:03,320 They never think twice. 500,000 Syrians were killed. 707 00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:09,960 You know, we have Muslims killing in Africans, in Darfur, 708 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:17,600 in Ethiopia, the Tigrayans, you know, there's all kinds of mass 709 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,680 murder going on. Iran, let's not, let's not talk 710 00:38:19,720 --> 00:38:20,120 about. Iran. 711 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:21,960 Yes, Iran. Something that's dear. 712 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:26,360 To both of your hearts, but 300,000 Tigrayans in Ethiopia, 713 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:30,240 400,000 Sudanese. When we talk about starvation, 714 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,800 rather blaming Israel for starvation, the the the number 715 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:39,600 of trucks that entered into Gaza with Israel's blessing was able 716 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:44,360 to feed every Gazan with 3000 calories a day, right? 717 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:48,520 And there was only reports of 32 Gazans that died of starvation. 718 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:53,960 Do you know how many Nigerians died of, of starvation? 719 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:59,200 18,000,000 right? This is the level of starvation 720 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:04,880 throughout Africa in Islamist attacks, in places like Sudan 721 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:10,360 and Nigeria and Ethiopia. Those attacks, nobody's paying 722 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,520 attention to, you know, civil wars in Western Sahara, in 723 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:16,800 Yemen. Nobody pays attention to that. 724 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:21,080 So there must be a reason why the the thousands of 725 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,720 Palestinians who were killed largely because of their own 726 00:39:23,720 --> 00:39:27,400 complicity, their own participation in the war, has 727 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,040 been treated in this way as if Israel is an illegitimate 728 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,520 country. It has it really at its very 729 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:39,600 core is the is essentially a license to engage in 730 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,600 anti-Semitic violence because there's no other explanation for 731 00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:47,840 parts of the world that have much larger levels of casualties 732 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,600 and collateral damage and no one is interested in it. 733 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:54,320 All Muslims can kill Muslims and the world would watch and not 734 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:59,520 care if a Jew is responsible or is killing a Muslim all of a 735 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:03,320 sudden it's a war crime. So, so OK, so. 736 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:07,000 That's for the the ones that are active in this anti-Semitic 737 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,720 propaganda. But what about, you know, the 738 00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:14,400 average mom, you know, watching on TV and she's getting she, why 739 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,800 can't she understand this basic, the basic points that we laid 740 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,080 out? They can't, they can't, they 741 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,520 can't see the Palestinian people as complicit. 742 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,720 What's up with that? Well, some of that has to do 743 00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:28,840 with the. Woke world that we've lived in, 744 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:31,040 that's what I want to get at right the. 745 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:33,480 You know the the worst. Thing that you could be now is 746 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,040 the colonialist a white oppressor and you deal in these 747 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,640 binary categories that was created through 748 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:46,040 intersectionality and and and and the new social the morays of 749 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:49,360 social activism is that we're basically told the world is 750 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:53,840 divided into white oppressors and dark dark skinned victims 751 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:59,080 and and and and and and and and so Israel, even though 50% of 752 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:02,080 the population are people of color, no one wants to accept 753 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:06,280 that you know that's why things like land theft that Israel 754 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,600 stole land is so preposterous right and the same time that 755 00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,560 Americans like to talk about land acknowledgements that the 756 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,600 Indians were here first the Jews from the Old Testament were 757 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,880 clearly there first and there's no land acknowledgement about 758 00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:23,400 that with that it's only Jews came to Israel only recently 759 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,000 only, you know, post Holocaust era. 760 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,400 It's just preposterous. So I do think now we're living 761 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,880 in a time where it's very easy, very simple to call people 762 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,960 racist and Islamic folks. And so I think when you're 763 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:40,240 saying, what about the mother at home, they're just being told 764 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:44,960 that Israel is an oppressor, colonialist enterprise, and so 765 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,720 therefore they're wrong. And the mother, the woman 766 00:41:47,720 --> 00:41:49,720 doesn't read anything. She doesn't know anything. 767 00:41:49,720 --> 00:41:51,320 She's just sort of watching the news. 768 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:55,760 The mainstream media has latched on to this narrative and that's 769 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,800 what she knows, that these are white colonialists that have 770 00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,720 stolen the land of brown skinned people and brown skinned people 771 00:42:02,720 --> 00:42:05,960 are being killed through Israel's superior military 772 00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:08,320 force. What happened on October 7th 773 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,840 doesn't matter. The history of Palestinian 774 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:15,880 rejectionism of peace, land for peace, nobody knows that nobody 775 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,240 cares about that they don't want. 776 00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:19,720 They either don't know or don't care. 777 00:42:19,720 --> 00:42:23,600 The idea of blaming Israel, blaming Jews is too compelling 778 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:25,320 on its own. You know, but it's so 779 00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,920 interesting because. Israel Jews have been living in 780 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:34,120 America for a long time. How much crime rate did they see 781 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,760 out of Jews in America? Very little. 782 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:39,080 Jews have always been model citizens. 783 00:42:39,240 --> 00:42:41,800 You know, if you, I remember I even watched an interview, I 784 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:46,240 think it was Patrick and David was interviewing Nick Fuentes 785 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:50,120 and he asked him if you had to live in an Islamic neighborhood 786 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,600 in America or a like an Arab neighborhood or Jewish 787 00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:53,800 neighborhood, where would you want to go? 788 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:55,560 And he admitted, he said, I'd rather be in the Jewish 789 00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:57,000 neighborhood. Meaning meaning he's, he's 790 00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,880 acknowledging like, you know, Jews have been model citizens in 791 00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:03,480 America for a long time. How did we get to a point where 792 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:07,480 we became these like, like these monsters in everyone's eyes when 793 00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:09,640 they've lived side by side with us? 794 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,640 And, you know, what has Jews really done to anybody in 795 00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,120 America over the years that they can really come to such an 796 00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:19,400 extreme position regarding the people we've lived together with 797 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:21,280 for many years and never had any issue? 798 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,240 Well, success widely. Disproportionate to our numbers 799 00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:26,080 has a lot of has a lot to do with that. 800 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:31,280 You you're talking about a very small population of Jews that 801 00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:33,960 are over represented in every field. 802 00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,200 And it it builds on this idea of conspiracies. 803 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,120 You know, they're, they've, I think that there is an enormous 804 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:44,280 amount of resentment against Jews and that has that has 805 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,800 played a role in this. Look again, it is the world's 806 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:51,440 oldest prejudice. Even if when it's dormant, it's 807 00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:53,760 dormant, it doesn't disappear, right. 808 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,240 People thought, you know, after Schindler's List and the 809 00:43:56,240 --> 00:43:59,720 Holocaust Museum in Washington, DC, they naively said, oh, you 810 00:43:59,720 --> 00:44:01,600 know, anti-Semitism is over. No, it's not. 811 00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:05,800 It's never over because we're seeing how easily it was revived 812 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:10,040 and revitalized in this post October 7th era. 813 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,280 Things that were just would be shocking when you think about 814 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:18,840 what's being blamed on Jews. So, you know, it must be that in 815 00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,160 everybody. You know, it's not based on some 816 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,800 rational, you know what? I don't really think the Jews 817 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:26,680 have ever done anything to harm anybody. 818 00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,120 You know, In fact, they seemingly have been model 819 00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:32,160 citizens and have contributed to the growth of our, you know, 820 00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,240 civilization in many different ways. 821 00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:36,280 And I don't know why I hate them so much. 822 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,040 I don't know why I would automatically support 823 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:42,000 Palestinians when I have no idea about the history of that 824 00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,520 region. And what I do know is that 825 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:49,560 Palestinians are widely connected to global terrorism. 826 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,920 Why would I immediately after 911, why would I default to 827 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:58,200 blaming Israel? Wouldn't I saying Islamists are 828 00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:02,440 are the cause of 911? Global terror is only connected. 829 00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:05,400 There's no terrorist activities around the world that are not 830 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,400 Islamic, right? It's pretty straightforward, 831 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,240 right? You know, there's the Hasidic. 832 00:45:10,240 --> 00:45:13,200 Jews don't do this. Roman Catholics don't do this 833 00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:15,720 right. There's only one people on earth 834 00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:18,400 where you can get 10,000 people to come to a public square and 835 00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:22,360 scream death to Israel, death to America, death to the Pope, 836 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:24,960 death the British novelist, death, death, death. 837 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,240 Who talks like this? It's only Muslims. 838 00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:32,000 You don't see the Luxembourgian people screaming death to 839 00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,160 France, death to France. This is only Islamist. 840 00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,880 So why is there the the housewife that you're 841 00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:40,760 describing, Benzie? I don't know why she immediately 842 00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:42,120 said, well, this is Israel's fault. 843 00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,400 Why doesn't she say, you know, it does seem to be that Muslims 844 00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,720 and Islamists in particular are really violent around the world. 845 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:50,880 You know, they don't really like to have a conversation. 846 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,440 They like to blow shit up, you know, and that's pretty basic 847 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,520 observation. You don't have to be a genius to 848 00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,240 say it does seem like, you know, when it comes to global 849 00:45:59,240 --> 00:46:02,080 terrorism, it's Islamists and Muslims. 850 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,800 It's not anyone else, certainly not anymore. 851 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:09,240 And so why not, you know, people again, you know, you said 852 00:46:09,240 --> 00:46:13,680 something was at our doorstep. Yeah, literally in the part. 853 00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:15,880 Of new. York Here's something about 911 854 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:17,680 Benzie. That no one either remembers or 855 00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,280 wants to know. And CNN won't help. 856 00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:24,600 And this is this. Within the first hour of 911, 857 00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:29,080 when the towers came down, there was footage in Gaza and in the 858 00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:32,960 West Bank of Muslims, of Palestinians throwing candy in 859 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,120 celebration. And that was on. 860 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,160 CNN has the video. They have it. 861 00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:41,040 They won't show it because it's, it's very part of the, as I 862 00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:44,920 said, this kind of woke ideology of oppressor and oppressed. 863 00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:49,120 We do not like to point out on flattering things of people in 864 00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:52,320 color of color. The Palestinians cannot be shown 865 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,520 in a negative light. We cannot show them as 866 00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,040 terrorists. We can only show them as victims 867 00:46:57,240 --> 00:46:59,880 and, and only their children are victims, not terrorists. 868 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,920 And they don't have terrorists. Everybody, every life is this. 869 00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:06,720 They count terrorists as if they're civilians, right. 870 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:10,280 It's this is the only war in which the military of the other 871 00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:12,760 side is being counted as civilians. 872 00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:16,560 So clearly it's actually crazy. Yeah, it's only crazy now. 873 00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:21,320 No other war has the other side's military been counted, 874 00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,600 meshed in, integrated in with everyone else. 875 00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:28,560 So clearly someone is, you know, putting their finger on the 876 00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:31,440 scale and saying we really want to blame the Jews. 877 00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,360 We really want to blame Israel. We have a lot of evidence. 878 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,720 You don't have to be a genius to see it does seem like Muslims 879 00:47:37,720 --> 00:47:39,760 are when it comes to death, death, death. 880 00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,640 It's really just Islamists and Muslims that do this. 881 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:47,520 There's no other people. 9/11 Islamists around the world. 882 00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:51,600 We see vast numbers of mass killings, Islamists in Africa, 883 00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:54,920 in the Persian Gulf, in, in, in in the Middle East. 884 00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,560 But instead what we're focusing on it a country that's fighting 885 00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:02,040 in self-defense against terror. And that's why, as I said 886 00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:07,480 earlier on, resistance is using words like resistance by any 887 00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:11,640 means necessary. The reasons for that is to take 888 00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:16,040 the criticism away from Palestinians, to not show them 889 00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:20,080 in a negative light, and to show that whatever they do to Israel 890 00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:23,520 is justified and whatever Israel does in self-defense is 891 00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,520 unjustified. I think maybe, you know, I think 892 00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:28,680 that. Oh yeah, go ahead, go ahead 893 00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:30,200 then. I was going to say we'd be 894 00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:32,120 remiss. Not to mention the phenomenon of 895 00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:35,280 the horseshoe theory that's happening at woke also exists on 896 00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,920 the right. And we, you know, people who are 897 00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:41,560 considered wholesome to those everyday mothers like a Candace 898 00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:44,480 Owens or Tucker Carlson are all of a sudden spewing things not 899 00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,600 just against Israel, but about demonic Jews and, you know, 900 00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,280 Francis and Sabatians and all these crazy things that they're 901 00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,920 talking about. You know, that's a that's a huge 902 00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:55,320 phenomenon that's occurring in right in front of our eyes. 903 00:48:55,720 --> 00:48:59,160 And I don't think it's getting enough play, unfortunately, from 904 00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:01,080 Jews. I mean, it is now recently, but 905 00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:02,760 in the for two years, I didn't hear much. 906 00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,480 Well, there was less of it. That's sure. 907 00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:10,120 It's it's become more, you know, robust more recently. 908 00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,600 But you know, I hear this horseshoe all the time. 909 00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:16,720 I'm not somebody who thinks they're equivalent in any way. 910 00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,920 The, the, the, the, the, the, the red green alliance on the 911 00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:23,440 left is really where the danger lies. 912 00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:28,080 It may be that in time, Tucker Carlson's audience will grow and 913 00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,160 there will be violence from the right. 914 00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:32,320 But the violence is all on the left. 915 00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:36,360 It's all on Islamists. And Islamists are are identified 916 00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:40,840 with the progressive Americans, socialists, left wing radical 917 00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:44,800 politics in the United States. The Islamists are not aligned 918 00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,600 with Nick Fuentes. So if you look at the violence, 919 00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:51,920 the public demonstrations, the killings, this is an alliance of 920 00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,480 red and green and that's number one. 921 00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,840 Number two, yeah, there's a horseshoe, but they're you know, 922 00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,040 they're they're the most important person they have is 923 00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:04,000 Tucker Carlson. He's you know, when you can't 924 00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:09,680 even compare the fact that the anti Zionist, anti-Semitic, post 925 00:50:10,240 --> 00:50:16,080 October 7th alliance dominates universities, mainstream media, 926 00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,640 publishing, museums, corporate boardrooms. 927 00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:23,600 That's not true on the right. It's just not what really the 928 00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:27,560 real the real energy and the real violence is coming from. 929 00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:31,240 Look, you know, when in Dearborn, MI, which is now a 930 00:50:31,240 --> 00:50:35,560 majority Muslim city, you know, it, it, it didn't get enough 931 00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:38,480 attention when you started to for the first time see the 932 00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,640 burning of American flags and death to America, right? 933 00:50:41,720 --> 00:50:45,000 That kind of violence is something that we as you see in 934 00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:49,040 Europe and that's now only recently coming to America. 935 00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:52,400 So yeah, you're right. There is a, a a new wave of 936 00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:56,240 anti-Semitism that has also been revived on the right. 937 00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:00,320 But the violent dimensions of it still are on the left. 938 00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:05,680 And it's this alliance between, you know, the radical far hard 939 00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:08,880 left and the radical Islamists. Yeah. 940 00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:12,440 But I also, I also think people. Are starting to, you know, see 941 00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:16,680 how influential Qatar is in in kind of changing that 942 00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:19,800 demographic on the right. And there is this alliance 943 00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:22,680 that's brewing that's growing slowly and it's not small 944 00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:24,240 anymore. It's no, no, no, I agree. 945 00:51:24,240 --> 00:51:27,280 I agree. But I, I, I, I have still not 946 00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:31,440 seen violence really associated with it in the same way that 947 00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:34,480 we've seen it on the left. And until I see that, you know, 948 00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:36,400 I'm not saying that this is not something Jews should be 949 00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:40,960 prepared to combat. But at this point, you know, 950 00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:45,760 when you realize how powerful the, you know, the the right 951 00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:48,800 really has no control over American institutions. 952 00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:53,560 The left runs the institutions. So when we talk about, you know, 953 00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,000 why is Israel being treated so badly in the media? 954 00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:58,840 That's not a right wing problem. That's a left wing problem. 955 00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:04,760 You know why it is that, you know, 97% of faculty members are 956 00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,920 anti-Semitic and hate Israel, even the Jewish ones. 957 00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:11,360 That is a left wing phenomenon. That is not a, there are no 958 00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:13,680 right wing professors on any campus. 959 00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,720 You know, they've done studies. It's, it's less than 5%. 960 00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:21,400 You know, 90 / 90% of people on university campuses are on the 961 00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,320 far left. So, you know, in terms of who's 962 00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:27,480 really running American institutions, it's not Jews, 963 00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:32,080 it's the hard left. And the hard left has a in now 964 00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:37,960 an alliance with Islam and and a real very openly vocal hatred of 965 00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:41,880 Israel and Jews. How do you how do you understand 966 00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:43,600 the nature? Of anti-Semitism, how do you 967 00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:47,400 understand the the reasoning, the cause, the dynamic? 968 00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,200 What what how do you understand anti-Semitism? 969 00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:53,640 Why is this? Why is there anti-Semitism? 970 00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,200 Well, remember. It's anti-Semitism has 971 00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:59,720 historically been very shape shifting, right? 972 00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:02,080 Right. Israel Jews were blamed for 973 00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:05,640 killing Christ. Jews were blamed for the bubonic 974 00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:08,960 plague. Jews were blamed for economic 975 00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:16,400 catastrophes. Jews were blamed for in creating 976 00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:19,080 impurity in Christian blood. Right? 977 00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:25,280 Nazis, Nazi style anti-Semitism and now you know, you know, Jews 978 00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:28,040 were using Christian children to make matzah. 979 00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:30,560 You know, now we have we see variations of it. 980 00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:37,080 There's a woman who teaches at Newark in in Newark at Rutgers. 981 00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:39,920 And she wrote a book called The Light, the Right to Maine. 982 00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:43,800 And she basically accused, without any evidence, accuses 983 00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:48,400 the IDF of deliberately harvesting the organs of 984 00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:52,640 Palestinians, deliberately poisoning the water supply in 985 00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:55,800 Gaza and the West Bank, and deliberately shooting at the 986 00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:58,160 legs of children. Right. 987 00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:01,160 She won a book award for this. She travels around the country 988 00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:04,640 and gets standing ovations. There's no sourcing in the book 989 00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:07,760 when she's confronted with, well, where's your sources? 990 00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:11,400 She said it may not be true, but it's essentially true, right? 991 00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:15,440 Is it to say, you know, she now she's these, she goes to 992 00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,560 universities, right? Universities are supposed to be 993 00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:22,440 places of science and data and, you know, to actually know 994 00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:25,520 knowledge. And when it comes to hating Jews 995 00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:29,080 and Israel, we don't care. This woman will get a book award 996 00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:31,080 because she came up with a really great idea. 997 00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:35,560 Blame Israel for harvesting the organs of Palestinians, Blame 998 00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:39,120 them for poisoning children. So what I would only say is 999 00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:44,480 you're talking about thousands of years, at least 2000 years of 1000 00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:48,800 or more of, of organized systematic hatred of Jews for 1001 00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:52,840 various reasons that are all, you know, baseless. 1002 00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:54,720 They're all baseless. Is there a root? 1003 00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:55,880 Is there a root? Is there? 1004 00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:58,760 Is there, you know, monster tastes? 1005 00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:01,440 Terrible on its own. It doesn't need Christian blood, 1006 00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:06,040 you know, Like, you know, And by the way, you know, that's an 1007 00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:08,920 interesting thing about how now we talk about the, you know, 1008 00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:11,840 the, the, the precious Palestinian children. 1009 00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:16,120 It's because we, we now know that it's harder to sell people 1010 00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:18,640 on making matzo out of blood, right? 1011 00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:21,200 More modern or audiences are not going to believe that. 1012 00:55:21,720 --> 00:55:25,560 So this is easier to believe poisoning children, you know, 1013 00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:28,480 deliberately targeting the legs of children, right? 1014 00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:33,480 You know, this to me is exactly akin to what we saw with the 1015 00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:36,840 blood libels of making matzo out of the the blood of children. 1016 00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:39,680 We're seeing it again, but in a different category. 1017 00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:42,920 Now it's Israel targeting children deliberately. 1018 00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,760 So all I could say is, you know, Israel has Jews have had this 1019 00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:49,960 problem for, you know, certainly over 2000 years. 1020 00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:54,800 And I do think that some of it is related to a few things. 1021 00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:57,800 One is success. You know that it's hard for 1022 00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:00,760 people to understand the disproportionate amount of 1023 00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:03,640 success for such a small population. 1024 00:56:04,720 --> 00:56:07,680 And also, you know, the fact that, you know, when you hear 1025 00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:11,520 words like globalization and cosmopolitans, those are 1026 00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:15,320 surrogates for Jews. When people are, you know, when 1027 00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:18,520 you refer to cosmopolitans, there's a lot of resentment 1028 00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:21,760 about Jewish intellectuals, about culture. 1029 00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:24,080 You know, American culture is Jewish culture. 1030 00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:27,320 You know, the fingerprint. I wrote this for Sapir magazine 1031 00:56:27,720 --> 00:56:31,280 on the the the the imprint of Jews on American culture, 1032 00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:37,480 fashion, food, music, you know, comedy, comedy. 1033 00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:39,280 Movies. Right. 1034 00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:42,920 Five of the first seven movie moguls were Jews born in Europe, 1035 00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:45,400 right. Without Jews, you know, there 1036 00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:48,760 really isn't American culture. Without Jews, there's no blue 1037 00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:51,040 jeans. There's, you know, so the, the, 1038 00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:54,960 the, the, the, the way in which Jews have sort of functioned, 1039 00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:58,440 you know, throughout society and been present and open. 1040 00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:01,280 You know, they don't. They're always very visible and 1041 00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:03,200 there's always a reason to resent them. 1042 00:57:04,240 --> 00:57:08,800 And, and, and people will accept these excuses, these biases and 1043 00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:11,240 prejudices. What they'll eat it up, give 1044 00:57:11,240 --> 00:57:13,000 them something that they can use. 1045 00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:17,600 And Israel has provided a lot of really good reasons, especially 1046 00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:20,600 when you're talking about most people are ignorant about that 1047 00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:22,520 region. You know, most people don't know 1048 00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:24,480 that there's never been a country named Palestine. 1049 00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:28,760 You know, people don't know. People don't know that at the 1050 00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:32,560 time that Gaza was occupied by Egypt and Jordan occupied the 1051 00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:35,620 West Bank, nobody was talking about Palestinian self 1052 00:57:35,620 --> 00:57:37,760 determination. Nobody even was talking about 1053 00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:39,920 Palestinians. Most people don't know that most 1054 00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:43,280 Palestinians that live in Gaza in the West Bank only came in 1055 00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:45,320 the 20th century. And you know why they came? 1056 00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:48,280 Because Israel started, Jews started to buy land in the late 1057 00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:51,480 19th century. And as it's true of most Jews, 1058 00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:56,320 when they started to buy land in in Palestine, in Ottoman 1059 00:57:56,480 --> 00:58:01,160 controlled Palestine, they made cities like Tel Aviv and Haifa 1060 00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:03,400 great. They created jobs and 1061 00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:05,920 opportunities. People flocked from southern 1062 00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:08,880 Syria and Iraq. The Palestinians that claim are 1063 00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:11,560 Palestinians, they're not from Palestine. 1064 00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:14,960 Most of the vast majority of them are from southern Syria and 1065 00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:17,000 Iraq. And they're only there because 1066 00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:20,240 when Jews started to buy land in the 19th century, they did what 1067 00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:21,880 all Jews seem to do wherever they go. 1068 00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:25,560 And I've said this before, Jews make places better. 1069 00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:29,040 They just make it better. You know, Europe is on its way 1070 00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:32,160 to being a shit hole because they're losing their Jews. 1071 00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:36,120 Good luck to France. You, you gave you you gave Jews 1072 00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:39,080 an excuse to make Allianz to move to other places and let's 1073 00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:41,280 see what life is going to be like for you there. 1074 00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:45,320 And so again, Jews made Palestine better and that's what 1075 00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:51,040 drew, quote, Arabs that not Arabs that eventually became 1076 00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:56,640 Palestinians. This is so informative. 1077 00:58:56,680 --> 00:59:00,560 And before we go, we want to ask you if you have anything you 1078 00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:04,200 want to plug up? Any upcoming projects? 1079 00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:06,920 Well, I'm a novelist. So my next book will probably be 1080 00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:10,280 a novel, but I really would like, you know, because of I 1081 00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:12,720 said the the the boycott of this book. 1082 00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:16,520 I would love your audience to go to amazonorbarnesandnoble.com 1083 00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:20,080 and buy Beyond Proportionality. Israel's just 4IN Gaza. 1084 00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:24,080 Buy a copy for yourself and buy one for your son or daughter 1085 00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:27,160 because they need it. People are Jews are walking 1086 00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:31,200 around and and well meaning non Jews who want to defend Israel 1087 00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:34,440 but don't know what to say. They hear the word international 1088 00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:36,040 law but they don't know what that means. 1089 00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:38,160 People use the word I've already said this. 1090 00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:41,200 Whenever someone says to you under international law Israel's 1091 00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:43,160 violating something you should say to them. 1092 00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:45,760 What law are you talking about? They don't know the answer to 1093 00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:47,000 that. They just know the word 1094 00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:49,520 international law. If you read my book, you'll say 1095 00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:52,400 here are the laws. I now know what they are, right? 1096 00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:55,720 So I'm not going to let someone stupidly tell me Israel 1097 00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:57,960 violating international law. The best answer you should 1098 00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,640 always say to them, you'll see their face will turn red. 1099 01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:03,040 Say to them what law specifically you're talking. 1100 01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:05,720 They'll start screaming at you. They'll scream genocide. 1101 01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:07,400 They'll start screaming because they don't know. 1102 01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:11,240 So you sit, spend the weekend calmly reading my book, you'll 1103 01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:14,520 feel better about being a Jew. You'll feel better about being a 1104 01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:17,720 supporter of Israel, because you'll know Israel's not in 1105 01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:21,640 violation of any laws. You know, let's put it this way. 1106 01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:25,600 The taking of hostages is a war crime and violates international 1107 01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:29,800 laws, and the using your own people as human Shields violates 1108 01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:31,960 international law, right? Those are. 1109 01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:35,440 That's for flat out fact. No one's talking about that. 1110 01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:39,400 The taking of Israeli hostages violated international law, and 1111 01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:42,160 using your own people as human Shields violates international 1112 01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:43,840 law. And people are using the word 1113 01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:48,240 international law against Israel when Israel's using evacuation 1114 01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:51,080 warnings and humanitarian corridors. 1115 01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:55,240 It's twisted, it's inverted, it's perverted, right? 1116 01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:59,080 The side that's so obviously and overtly is violating 1117 01:00:59,080 --> 01:01:02,840 international law. No one is talking about those 1118 01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:07,240 war crimes and the side that is is trying to avoid civilian 1119 01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:09,480 casualties. They're the ones in violation of 1120 01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:11,800 international laws. And I said when people say that 1121 01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:14,080 to you, you should say to them what law specifically you're 1122 01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:15,760 referring to 'cause they don't know. 1123 01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:17,680 And I'm not talking about just anyone. 1124 01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:20,160 Even people that are academics, they don't know. 1125 01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:22,280 They don't know. That's why you should read my 1126 01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:25,560 book because then you'll know. And the last thing I want to. 1127 01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:29,320 Ask you is what is your, what is your message to young Jews, 1128 01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:30,520 young American Jews cause in Israel? 1129 01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:32,360 Obviously Jews defend themselves. 1130 01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:34,320 They don't. They're not victims here. 1131 01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:36,440 We could just had a Super Bowl commercial portraying Jews as 1132 01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:37,960 victims. I didn't like it so much. 1133 01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:41,880 I, I think that, you know, the messaging for the youth is 1134 01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:43,840 really like, like you said, read my book. 1135 01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:45,160 You'll get a lot of answers there. 1136 01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:48,360 But what would you advise to, to young Jews besides that, 1137 01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:50,720 obviously, how can they, how can they be more proud of their 1138 01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:52,720 Jewishness and get in touch with it with their Jewishness and 1139 01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:54,920 also learn how to stand up for themselves. 1140 01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:58,000 Well, standing up for yourself. Right, that's the main. 1141 01:01:58,120 --> 01:01:59,760 I said this before, I know it sounds harsh. 1142 01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:02,680 Jews have very low self esteem. They want to be accepted. 1143 01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:06,840 And Jewish kids, especially kids in college, they see where the 1144 01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:08,760 Zike, they see where the movement is going. 1145 01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:10,560 They see what the professors are saying. 1146 01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:12,000 They're seeing what their colleagues are saying. 1147 01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:15,240 Their colleagues are saying, we will not, we will not be your 1148 01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:17,800 friend anymore. People now cancel their friends. 1149 01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:20,960 You know, unless you say you hate Israel, we're not going to 1150 01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:23,160 let you hang out with us. And so people say, OK, I hate 1151 01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:26,440 Israel, right? When I was at NYU, you know, 1152 01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:28,840 they have a very large Jewish population. 1153 01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:32,560 When I was at NYU, because of my writings, I had no friends 1154 01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:36,040 because Jewish professors and students kept their heads down 1155 01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:39,560 because they nobody wants they're Jews that would stand up 1156 01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:42,520 for Israel, but they're afraid. And so I'm saying have some 1157 01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:44,920 spine, you know, have some spine. 1158 01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:46,640 These are people that are not your friends. 1159 01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:48,640 You think they're your friends. They're not your friends. 1160 01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:51,360 What they're asking you to do is not what a friend would make you 1161 01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:53,920 do. To deny who you are, to deny 1162 01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:57,880 your people, to deny your ancestry, to deny your ancestral 1163 01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:02,400 homeland, to deny all of these things, and to ignore all of 1164 01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:05,920 these other true human rights abuses around the world and only 1165 01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:09,960 blame your own people. Why are you so accepting of 1166 01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:11,440 that? Does that make sense to you, 1167 01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:15,160 that no one seems to be interested in violations around 1168 01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:17,680 the world? There's only one country that's 1169 01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:19,120 illegitimate. Only one. 1170 01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:23,760 Not Iran, not North Korea. It's the Western democracy where 1171 01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:27,480 where homosexuals can live and women have you equal rights and 1172 01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:30,040 the rule of law is obeyed and you don't have to. 1173 01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:33,000 You can be an apostate. You know, that's the country you 1174 01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:36,960 want to get rid of. There are 22 failed Arab Muslim 1175 01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:41,400 states in the world, failed under any criteria of democracy, 1176 01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:45,440 human rights, the rule of law, freedom of speech, freedom of 1177 01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:49,480 religion. 22 failed state. You want to get rid of the one 1178 01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:52,960 Democratic state and replace it with another failed state. 1179 01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:56,960 You're sitting in a university and you with a straight face, 1180 01:03:57,040 --> 01:03:59,440 you're saying that you're saying, yes, let's get rid of 1181 01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:02,400 the Jewish state and let's replace it with a terrorist 1182 01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:04,760 state. We need another Muslim state, 1183 01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:07,240 and this one we know for fact they're only interested in 1184 01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:08,960 terrorism. We need that state. 1185 01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:11,840 And you're a Jewish student and you're not saying whoa, whoa, 1186 01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:14,920 whoa, this is nuts. And I'm not part of this. 1187 01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:17,160 And if you don't want to be my friend, I'm fine with that. 1188 01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:20,200 I don't need you. I am not going to pretend that 1189 01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:23,800 what you're saying is right. What you're doing is openly 1190 01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:27,320 finding an excuse to hate Jews. And I'm not going to assist you 1191 01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:28,920 in that. That's your problem. 1192 01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:31,600 You want to hate Jews, go ahead and do it, but I'm not going to 1193 01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:33,720 help you. But again, look, it's easy, you 1194 01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:37,640 know, I, I've been, I've been shunned for 30 years. 1195 01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:41,800 So it doesn't, you know, so I, it's easy for me to say, but I, 1196 01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:46,240 I see this with my own friends. I see this with, you know, left 1197 01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:49,360 wing Jews. They are so quick to blame that 1198 01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:51,800 themselves blame Jews and blame Israel. 1199 01:04:52,240 --> 01:04:55,440 And they simply have no interest in defending Jews or defending 1200 01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:58,280 Israel, not just because they don't know what to say. 1201 01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:01,440 Yeah, they should read my book, but they don't have the impulse 1202 01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:04,960 to do it because they are afraid that they might get a backlash. 1203 01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:07,720 They're afraid, you know. Here. 1204 01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:09,200 Here's an interesting little anecdote. 1205 01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:12,720 I write this essay once a week. It I posted. 1206 01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:15,080 I have 6000 people on my mailing list. 1207 01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:17,720 Comes on the Jewish Journal of Los Angeles, the Jewish News 1208 01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:19,840 Syndicate. It's on Facebook. 1209 01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:24,680 It's on every essay. Gets about 40 likes on Facebook. 1210 01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:28,840 That's it. 40 people on my birthday, 3000 people send me 1211 01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:31,720 happy birthday wishes. What? 1212 01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:35,440 Does that tell you? They're they're willing to read 1213 01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:38,760 the essay and they but not put the like, they're silently 1214 01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:42,680 cheering on the essay and they're saying we don't mind if 1215 01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:45,000 they hate Dane Rosenbaum. Let him be the one they hate. 1216 01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:48,080 But I don't want my son to see that I like this essay. 1217 01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:50,480 I don't want to see my college roommate to see it. 1218 01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:54,920 I have a stupid half with a cousin that at Passover Seders 1219 01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:57,560 is always the stupidest one at the Seder table. 1220 01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:01,840 He really is the the the fourth child who doesn't know and he's 1221 01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:04,720 loud and stupid and I don't want to get in a fight with my 1222 01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:07,160 cousin. My my cousin hates Jews. 1223 01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:09,560 He hates Israel. And if he sees on Facebook that 1224 01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:12,160 I like a thing, Rosenman, I say it's going to cause a problem. 1225 01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:16,040 And I'm saying really, you're afraid of your cousin. 1226 01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:19,280 You're afraid. So I I don't know what it takes. 1227 01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:22,880 I just know it's not natural to me to be silent. 1228 01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:25,640 It seemed to me after for for a while. 1229 01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:28,800 Look, I was just last thing I could say. 1230 01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:32,720 For six years I was the literary editor for Tokud magazine, which 1231 01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:36,440 is to the left of the nation. I'm not an I'm not a 1232 01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:37,960 conservative, I'm an independent. 1233 01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:41,520 I'm a free thinker. But I know that we're not living 1234 01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:45,880 in a time that recognizes classic liberalism where people 1235 01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:50,320 are able to have different views and discuss views and not attack 1236 01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:53,040 each other. And what part of this is a 1237 01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:56,000 cultural problem that we're living in, a time where people 1238 01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:59,400 feel intimidated by expressing their actual opinion? 1239 01:06:59,680 --> 01:07:01,880 So when you say, you know, what should kids do? 1240 01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:03,320 Yeah, they should become better informed. 1241 01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:06,920 But it would be good for them to challenge their friends because 1242 01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:09,520 some of the things that their friends are saying are just 1243 01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:11,600 idiotic. And if you spend any time 1244 01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:14,040 thinking about it, it's easily contradicted. 1245 01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:16,640 It's easily rebutted. But you don't want to do it 1246 01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:18,000 because you don't want to be Oscarson. 1247 01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:20,560 And I want I want to just end by saying. 1248 01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:23,800 That to just to address what Benzie asked before about, you 1249 01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:26,360 know, how could this happen? Remodel citizens, just go, you 1250 01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:29,520 don't have to go so far back to the Dreyfus affair where 1251 01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:32,760 Theodore Herzl, you know, came, came up with the concept of 1252 01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:35,560 Zionism to begin with because he saw the the Jew who reached the 1253 01:07:35,560 --> 01:07:39,560 highest level of society, you know, and he couldn't imagine 1254 01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:42,400 someone like that, you know, be put, be put to death. 1255 01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:45,640 And the the fact of the matter is it's just repeating itself. 1256 01:07:45,640 --> 01:07:48,520 It's just constantly happening, Benzie. 1257 01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:49,920 Knows because he just finished the book. 1258 01:07:50,240 --> 01:07:52,560 I start the book on the Dreyfus affair. 1259 01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:56,320 The book starts. The very first paragraph is the 1260 01:07:56,320 --> 01:07:57,400 Dreyfus affair. Why? 1261 01:07:57,840 --> 01:08:00,280 Because the Dreyfus affair is exactly like this. 1262 01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:03,680 Why? It was fueled by artists and 1263 01:08:03,680 --> 01:08:06,080 university people, the intellectuals. 1264 01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:09,840 The higher levels of Society of France became anti-Semitic. 1265 01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:13,880 It wasn't on the right wing. It was really the very similar 1266 01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:18,720 artists and intellectuals drove it and everyone was very easily 1267 01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:21,279 convinced that the Jew is the traitor. 1268 01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:24,080 It doesn't take much. And I think that that's the 1269 01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:27,040 thing that it has in common. What I said before about, you 1270 01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:30,200 know, nobody checks the numbers from the Gaza Health Ministry. 1271 01:08:30,479 --> 01:08:34,319 It's amazing what people will be easily accept. 1272 01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:37,160 They'll without ever verification if it's against 1273 01:08:37,160 --> 01:08:39,479 Jews, they'll accept anything. You can say anything. 1274 01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:42,960 You could say that they'll make matzo out of blood of children. 1275 01:08:43,240 --> 01:08:46,120 They'll they'll, they're poisoning water their, their 1276 01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:48,800 cause, the bubonic plague. It's amazing what when you're 1277 01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:51,960 when you're blaming Jews, it's amazing how gullible, how 1278 01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:56,399 willing everyone is to accept anything, anything you say. 1279 01:08:56,800 --> 01:09:00,000 And that's what I think makes anti-Semitism different racism 1280 01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:03,399 because you know, you have to justify some of this when it 1281 01:09:03,399 --> 01:09:06,279 comes to hating Jews, people just jump on the bandwagon. 1282 01:09:06,279 --> 01:09:08,800 They could care less that what they're following makes no 1283 01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:12,359 sense. We owe you a debt of gratitude. 1284 01:09:13,720 --> 01:09:15,840 You know, you said in the beginning that you're a public, 1285 01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:18,160 public intellectual. We need more of you. 1286 01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:22,840 And we're indebted to you for for standing up for for us, for 1287 01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:26,520 us all together. We didn't get into the 1288 01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:30,200 particulars and the details of international law on this 1289 01:09:30,200 --> 01:09:36,160 podcast, but as you said, the goal of this podcast is that 1290 01:09:36,160 --> 01:09:39,120 everyone should buy your book and they will get and they'll be 1291 01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:41,000 armed with knowledge and confidence. 1292 01:09:41,399 --> 01:09:44,240 Let me just quickly say, let me. Just to give your audience, 1293 01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:45,840 because I may, you may not invite me back. 1294 01:09:45,840 --> 01:09:50,080 So let me just quickly say under under under just war theory. 1295 01:09:50,680 --> 01:09:52,680 How do you determine you're fighting a just war? 1296 01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:55,880 First of all, as I said before, genocide is based on specific 1297 01:09:55,880 --> 01:10:00,240 intent and so therefore if the if the Israel's specific intent 1298 01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:03,720 is to fight a war and not eliminate a people, right And 1299 01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:07,160 how do you know that evacuation warnings and humanitarian 1300 01:10:07,160 --> 01:10:10,240 corridor knocks out the word genocide just knocks it out. 1301 01:10:10,440 --> 01:10:13,480 They're clearly that's very simple easy to eliminate. 1302 01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:17,880 Don't let any bad faith actor, any imbecile convince you 1303 01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:20,480 otherwise. Just say to them this is under 1304 01:10:20,480 --> 01:10:23,200 the UN Convention on the punishment prevention agenda. 1305 01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:25,120 This is the definition of genocide. 1306 01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:28,960 So that's knocked out because clearly the intent here is a 1307 01:10:28,960 --> 01:10:33,040 war, but always the standard under under the laws of 1308 01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:36,640 international humanitarian law and the laws of armed conflict 1309 01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:38,800 is what are you aiming at? What are you? 1310 01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:41,240 Are you aiming at something that is military necessity? 1311 01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:44,000 If you're aiming at something that military necessity, you're 1312 01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:47,400 not, even if civilians are killed, you're not engaged in 1313 01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:49,760 genocide. Are you trying to make 1314 01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:52,920 distinctions between civilians and combats? 1315 01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:54,920 Yes. Israel's not only trying to do, 1316 01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:58,640 remember the Palestinians. Hamas doesn't wear uniforms, all 1317 01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:01,320 right, but they are telling civilians to go elsewhere. 1318 01:11:01,480 --> 01:11:03,040 They're trying to make distinctions. 1319 01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:05,520 They're not. They're not willingly, just 1320 01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:08,720 firing like what Hamas does, firing rockets at civilian 1321 01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:12,040 populations of Israel's, aiming at Hamas. 1322 01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:17,760 They're aiming at weapons caches, command centers, places 1323 01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:20,280 where weapons exist and terrorists exist. 1324 01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:24,480 Are you using the right weapon, right? 1325 01:11:24,520 --> 01:11:27,520 Are you using the appropriate weapon for that target? 1326 01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:32,000 And are you using verifiable intelligence to convince you 1327 01:11:32,360 --> 01:11:33,840 that you're firing at the right target? 1328 01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:38,320 If you're if you have those four things, you are fighting a just 1329 01:11:38,320 --> 01:11:40,560 war under international law, right? 1330 01:11:40,680 --> 01:11:42,400 Very simple. It's incredibly scary. 1331 01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:44,720 It's. Incredibly scary how how how 1332 01:11:44,720 --> 01:11:47,480 basic that should be and how much everything has become 1333 01:11:47,880 --> 01:11:50,920 stretched into into non I just I just gave everybody. 1334 01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:54,320 A very quick international law answer overview. 1335 01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:57,560 Yep, very full of those 4 levels are right. 1336 01:11:57,560 --> 01:11:59,560 What are they again? Military necessity? 1337 01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:01,720 What are you aiming at? Are you trying to make 1338 01:12:01,720 --> 01:12:04,680 distinctions between civilians? Oh, and the last point was 1339 01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:07,360 proportionality, right? Proportionality doesn't mean one 1340 01:12:07,360 --> 01:12:10,920 to one. It means if the if the target 1341 01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:15,000 has military value, if you know you're firing a terrorist or 1342 01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:17,880 weapons or command centers, if you're firing something that has 1343 01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:21,040 value, the question is, and you're using the right weapon, 1344 01:12:21,480 --> 01:12:25,800 right? Is the value of the target 1345 01:12:26,360 --> 01:12:30,440 valuable enough to accept the number of casualties you have? 1346 01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:34,640 We reck we accept casualties. People get killed in war. 1347 01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:39,160 What are casualties of war? That means the collateral 1348 01:12:39,160 --> 01:12:42,520 damage. What is collateral damage is the 1349 01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:44,920 damage that's collateral to the war. 1350 01:12:45,080 --> 01:12:47,920 It's not the war. It's collateral to the war, 1351 01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:51,480 meaning we accept civilians are going to die in war. 1352 01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:53,240 That's why they're called collateral. 1353 01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:56,440 They're collateral to the main aim, fighting a war. 1354 01:12:56,600 --> 01:12:59,800 So proportionality means are you using the right weapon, 1355 01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:04,400 recognizing that you're going to have casualties, but they're not 1356 01:13:04,400 --> 01:13:08,440 going to be disproportionate because the the target is rich. 1357 01:13:08,760 --> 01:13:12,640 If the military target has value, and in each instance 1358 01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:17,160 Israel's firing away at high level targets, then you accept 1359 01:13:17,160 --> 01:13:20,840 disproportionate, you accept, you know, if you're using, you 1360 01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:24,120 can accept the number of casualties because the target is 1361 01:13:24,120 --> 01:13:26,600 valuable and that's what proportionality means. 1362 01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:28,160 And you give plethora of examples. 1363 01:13:28,160 --> 01:13:32,920 In the book of of military, military actions throughout 1364 01:13:32,920 --> 01:13:36,480 history that have that have shown this exact pattern of 1365 01:13:36,480 --> 01:13:39,440 proportionality, military target value and you know it. 1366 01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:42,680 It's always been a part of war, this type of right. 1367 01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:44,160 But let me just end with one last. 1368 01:13:44,160 --> 01:13:45,880 Anecdote. Because, you know, the book is 1369 01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:50,120 filled with anecdotes. Winston Churchill, their bombing 1370 01:13:50,120 --> 01:13:53,680 campaign of Dresden and other German cities, Winston 1371 01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:57,600 Churchill, unlike Israel when I said before, what's the military 1372 01:13:57,600 --> 01:13:59,560 necessity? Is it a high value target? 1373 01:13:59,880 --> 01:14:02,560 Are you making distinctions between Palestinian, between 1374 01:14:02,720 --> 01:14:05,960 combatants and civilians? Winston Churchill at the end of 1375 01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:08,040 the war wasn't following those rules. 1376 01:14:08,840 --> 01:14:12,760 He literally said to his generals, go after civilian 1377 01:14:12,760 --> 01:14:17,000 population centers, punish the Germans for what they did by 1378 01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:21,040 allowing the Nazis to take over. He literally some of the count 1379 01:14:21,040 --> 01:14:25,720 cities in Germany that they were bombing did not have high level 1380 01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:31,040 military significance, right? So, you know, say what you want, 1381 01:14:31,240 --> 01:14:37,800 but you know, Nagasaki and Hiroshima did not have great 1382 01:14:37,800 --> 01:14:41,000 military significance. And the precision of the weapon 1383 01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:43,040 was way beyond what you needed, right? 1384 01:14:43,160 --> 01:14:45,720 You had an atomic bomb. You didn't need the atomic bomb. 1385 01:14:46,080 --> 01:14:50,560 So you can't even compare Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki 1386 01:14:50,760 --> 01:14:54,000 to what Israel's doing those wars really did. 1387 01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:56,880 You could make an argument that they violated some of the laws 1388 01:14:56,880 --> 01:14:59,640 of wars in those instances, not in an Israel's case. 1389 01:15:00,640 --> 01:15:05,160 And thank you so much and. We, we implore our listeners to 1390 01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:08,080 buy your book. We will be promoting it on our 1391 01:15:08,080 --> 01:15:10,560 website and our Instagram and everywhere. 1392 01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:14,760 And we hope that in a few weeks you'll get a a few 100 or a few 1393 01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:16,600 that would be great. And that'll be. 1394 01:15:16,600 --> 01:15:19,400 Great and thank you SO. Much for coming on anytime your 1395 01:15:19,760 --> 01:15:21,320 service to the Jewish. People, thank you. 1396 01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:23,000 Thank. You for everything and your. 1397 01:15:23,320 --> 01:15:26,520 Website is www.thanerosenbaum.com. 1398 01:15:26,520 --> 01:15:28,440 Yeah, thanerosenbaum.com. It's got everything. 1399 01:15:28,440 --> 01:15:29,480 On it. Thank you. 1400 01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:31,320 Absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. 1401 01:15:31,480 --> 01:15:49,200 Thank you so much. Music.