Welcome to Judaism demystified a podcast for the perplexed.
We are joined by Rabbi Amin Levy.
I believe he is a practiced educator Rabbi author and
academic administrator. He has devoted his career to
teaching and preserving Sephardic, culture, law and
philosophical worldview. He is the founder and director
of The maimonides Heritage Center based in TV area, Israel
and new Ork, he authored four books, the most recent of which
is titled the mysticism of Andalusia exploring her embalms
mystical tradition, he edited two books and published numerous
articles in Jewish law, biblical exegesis and Sephardic
philosophy and Jewish mysticism without further Ado, Rabbi Amin
Levy, thank you for joining the Judaism demystified podcasts.
We have the pleasure of having Rabbi Amin levy on the podcast.
And we want to talk about your new book, The mysticism of
Andalusia, and we wanted to know what, what it is that made?
You want to write this book and also what is the book about?
Okay, good. Thank you.
Thank you for having me on your podcast.
I appreciate it. The title of the book is the
mysticism of Andalusia exploring Haram, bombs mystical tradition
and to answer your question, what led me to publish it?
To write this book? It's 30 years of teaching, her
rambam and primarily the guide of the perplexed and what's
always been most perplexing to me, is, How?
The guide has just been miss understood by so many very smart
people. That's the real truth.
How rambam himself States loud and clear that the purpose of
his more, a Honey bohème La lat Al.
Hi Reena is to teach mysticism to Each explain my sibber, a
sheet and my similar Cava he doesn't get more clear than
that. Look at his introduction to the
guy. Look at the introduction to
kralik three of the Guide chapter section to chapter 17 or
18. He says it explicitly.
He begins his mishneh Torah with four chapters.
The first two, explaining my simmer cover, and the next tube
explaining my cimber a sheet. Now, having said Said that and
and of course the world of Academia knows that the first
four chapters of the mishneh Torah are massive.
My calves and my saber, a sheet and yet they insist on this idea
that it's just natural sciences. That's what the rambam wants us
to know. and, I'm getting old and I said to myself, I have to
put this in writing now, I do want to say before I tell you
what, the thesis of the book is that, I'm an orphan.
That's the real truth. I'm an orphan because among my
rabbinic colleagues, I'm a provocateur and on the fringes
of religion and among my academic colleagues, I'm just
the rabbi, try to be a rabbi, you didn't say.
So the thesis, the primary Theses of my book and this is
what I've been teaching since my eyes were really open.
To what the guide is about that. I'm grateful to my teachers.
Qasim, you're safe for hours with Colonel Ibaka, Professor
David Blumenthal from Emory University as well as Professor
a rabbi is the door twerski of Harvard University.
And I do have to, you know, Express words of gratitude to
Robert Joseph, Sullivan, chick of Yeshiva, University who had
while not as explicit as the way I put it in my book, but
certainly understood how rambam, as you know, work of great,
great profound spiritual worth. So the Theses of my book are
threefold thesis number One, which is very important.
Aarambam was not an innovator. My good friend Micah Goodman in
Israel. Wrote a book called the book
that changed Judaism. Yeah, we're ready.
He's very upset with me because I take him to task all the time.
He's wrong flat and plain he's wrong.
The Marais and they became did not change Judaism.
The marina for him is an expression of a judaism's about
How rambam was a transmitter of the rabbinic and gonna kick
tradition of Judaism? There is no Source.
I'm sorry. This get so passionate but there
is no source. In the early to late medieval.
Great Scholars. That is more authentic and a
better representation of what Judaism rabbinic Judaism is
about. There's no doubt with regards to
what I'm saying so how rambam was a transmitter?
And I have a new book that's coming out Biz right that shame
it's called the fathers of Andalusia and I'm tracing Rabbi
said. Yeah go on through.
Somali been T-Bone. Now it's a direct link of
tradition. Of a Judaism that is both.
Profoundly mystical. discipline philosophically and rational
Csis. Number two.
Is that Haram bum, maimonides? Ruby Moshe Ben me mon Was a
great Mystic. And I know the academic world
wants to, you know, put me out in the fringes and follower in
the fringes. All these are just rabbis
talking, of course, they want to make him a Mystic.
He was an eel Aristotelian, that's what, how they want to
frame her rambam. Of course, aarambam, studied
philosophy that he had access to in the Middle.
Ages, there's no question. We do that, too.
But to say that he was just, you know, spitting out, you know,
Greek philosophy is nonsense and silly.
Absolutely silly what her rambam did do and my good friend
Professor Menachem calendar agrees with me on this is that
he utilized the language of philosophy to better explicate
Judaism. And that's what we do today.
A good Rabbi a good teacher of Judaism.
Today, we'll use contemporary modern language, that explains
and and makes clear. Ideas that are ancient and that
our own are that are our own? Does it mean that I'm buying
into you know the culture that created these Concepts or ideas
or refine these Concepts or ideas the opposite?
There I'm utilizing them appropriately and responsibly
and that's exactly what a Haram bomb did.
And the third piece is in this book.
And and trust me when I tell you It was very hard.
To finally decide to include Those portions in my book.
They're very provocative and they're so contrary to the kind
of Judaism, we're living today. This idea that There is a
Judaism that is authentic and deeply spiritual and mystical.
That is not kabbalistic and is not superstitious and is not
third giuk, and is not magical, and is not full of charms, and,
and ideas that Are not rooted in Judaism and I urge your readers
or listeners to read the chapter.
I wrote on good magic, and bad Magic.
Those that I have read the book telling you that that is the
most one of the most important chapters in the book.
Because two days Judaism is full of magic.
There will be a vote all the magic that happened in the bit
that make Dash correct that there was never a fly around the
meat, and on deemed through FEMA mushtaq Ravine River him, they
would stand all crowded. But then when they would bow,
there was plenty of Miracles happening Day and Night Magic.
And so why not other kinds of magic?
And what I show in my book is that the popular English
translations of the talmud I don't want to mention names.
You. I think you all know what I'm
talking about. Misread misunderstand.
Basic, get my robot to this fact, basic basic, get marooned.
And there's one text one time, you like text that I discussed
there, that is completely misinterpreted, and
mistranslated by the famous, popular helmet translators of
Our Generation. And so, those are the three
Theses, I don't. And I say in mind, Traduction.
I don't mean to divide at all, my goal really is to unify but I
want to create a movement of those who are like-minded, who
want to bring at our alyoshina to bring back Judaism, to what
it originally was and what it's about, That really resonates
with us because we feel like we're trying to do the same
thing. And I think what you're doing is
amazing, very courageous, because obviously, you can get
yourself in hot water. These days, we know ourselves
when you talk about these topics but actually want to go kind of
one by owner. Start from the first point that
you made about rambam being the transmitter and of tradition and
not a dot. Yeah.
He'd so I understand why his detractors or maybe The from the
capitalistic side would want to say that.
He is like an original thinker and he's a rebel and all that.
But why is it that even some my monody ins like make a Goodman
are presenting it this way you want to add to that?
I do want to add to that. Also, that you also mentioned
the transmission. But when it comes to the Rumba
thumbs mysticism and the doctrine of the third Relic, he
actually He says that what he says was not a matter of
tradition and that he is on, he is basically trying to
understand mrs. Chisholm to the best of his own
ability, okay? So let me I have to answer that
very important point where yeah, that's that's, that's, that's
unfortunate and, you know, you need a teacher to understand
when you're reading these texts in the guide.
So I want, I want, I want to explain that.
If you mind, then you let me start with that point.
Yeah, sure. All right.
This is very important and and you're absolutely right then see
on that. Her rambam says this at the end
towards the end of Kayla Kimmo but her rambam also Begins.
The marina never came with a letter to his student.
It's people don't even realize it's there.
The there is a preamble to his introduction of the guide and
it's a short 450 word letter to a student-run.
Student. And he says, to the student, I
found that you are worthy, we studied together and you're so
passionate about wanting to learn the secrets of the profits
and you're very good in logic and Mathematics and the sciences
and we've parted ways and being that we've parted ways.
I decided I'm going to put this in writing and he says the last
line of that letter is and each chapter will reach you wherever
you may be. And so, in my book, I asked the
question and I learned this from camphor.
And it actually appears also, you know, similar development in
his book, homo mysticus, what's this letter doing here?
Now, the academics like to, you know, talk about how the mesh
nine my second hockey, God says, you're only allowed to teach the
secrets of Judaism to one person at a time.
You know I'm saying my sibber, a sheet and my sin make about one
or two students at a time. So here Harem bomb is finding
like this, you know, strategy. I wrote this book for one
student so I'm not violating any Jewish law or any Mission a
clock. Please her and Bob knew he was
publishing this book. It was gonna be read by
thousands of people. What is Haram bomb doing in this
letter is very, very important. Aarambam tells us Fancy on that.
Jewish mysticism is lost. There is no such thing as the
written record of Jewish mysticism.
You can And why can't you because there is no language
that is appropriate to express a mystical experience.
The closest we have is shear has she ream which would be a Kiva
called kodesh qodeshim. Why?
Because she has Shirin is Poetic and a poetic attempt at
describing a profoundly deep mystical experience, Union with
the Divine, that's what she or has.
She Rheem is when it's studied correctly.
And if you guys want to studied with me one day, I'll blow your
minds terms of what she Reshiram is.
But you have to be prepared to go into a deep meditation and
really Extract the experiential element of what Shearer has
Shirin. As I know I'm going a little bit
far out for your listeners but I apologize for not at all.
How rambam is very clear language?
Cannot describe? Mysticism is a discipline that
is lost. So how do we access it number
one, every student who embarks on this process Has an
independent venue access point and so on how rambam tells his
student. At the end of that letter, these
chapters will reach you wherever you are.
He's not talking about a geographic location.
He's talking about. Each chapter will reach you at
your appropriate stage in the trajectory of Spiritual
Development, wherever you are. Be beshear, who sham where you
are at in your Spiritual Development.
And I experienced this all the time.
I could read chapters over and over again chapters that I read
five years ago or two years ago, a year ago and I experience it
differently. Completely very true.
That's what he means. now, what he's saying at the end of the
guide Is that you have to access the spiritual, the mystical
experience individually? He saying there is II can't
write a book. Like, I mean, have not provided
us with Books on what the mystical expansion but it is
accessible. And if you ask me the right
questions, I'll go bring you to that but it is accessible.
You induce the experience. And I, you know, where my good
friend. I don't know if you read the
back of, you know, Professor Menachem calendars.
Endorsement of my book. He says and, and my friends,
everybody said to me, you know, he had so many other good
endorsements. Why did you put this one?
I said, because I'm honest, he disagrees with a fundamental
point of mine. The point he disagrees with is
that there's such a thing is Union with the divine There is
and it in my money didn't in Haram bombs economy of ideas.
The ribono Shel, Olam is transcendent which means distant
but also imminent very imminent. And can be fully experience.
So how could these two contradictions exist they do.
And all one has to do is look into the world of quantum,
physics, contradictions, and quantum physics exists all the
time. We all learned that in school
is, is light particles or waves. How could it be both?
It is both in Judaism. In the world of the spirit, we
have the same thing. Hashem is both Transcendent and
imminent at the same time. We have to access those points
and it's not in my quote but it's something I teach on a
regular basis and if you go to the Cobra, I gave a class.
I only allowed them to post one of my classes on mysticism.
My other classes I felt was just too far out, but for me the
point, Mysticism, is that point where we recognize?
How infinitesimally small we are in the scheme of the grand
universe. That I could just borrow who
created, but at the same time, how magnificently Grand human
consciousness is an incredible Miracle of human consciousness.
It's that point where these two meet We're mysticism in the
mystical experience takes place. I'm talking too much.
Ask me another. I hope I answered your question.
Hi, I'm Angie. What was your question?
We can go back to my original question later because now we're
on our way.
Um, world is still built into the structure of our physical
universe. So the physical universe is not
God the physically, right? I just want to clear that up for
people that I think the clear, you're absolutely right.
So let me clarify, right? Let me clarify.
The atomic Universe, which began.
And I'm not a physicist. I just wanted to put that out
there again, 14 billion years ago, with the big bang right?
Is Masa Beret sheet. My similar Cava is going beyond
the atomic Universe. It's accessing something that's
beyond time and space now. Aarambam repeatedly says. the
first stage to knowing Hashem and accessing, imminence with
Hashem is knowing knowing in order to induce this is very
important knowing in order to induce a sense of profound love,
and all of God, That's what it's about.
And so it's certainly not God. Absolutely not.
But it's the access point. You heard of c.s.
Lewis the author of the writer. Yes, yes.
So see if Louis has this fantastic little image where he
says, when you're training your dog, to fetch a stick, right?
So you throw your stick out into the field and you point to it.
And the dog sniffs your finger, the dog things up, you know, you
want him to sniff your finger. He thinks that's what's
important and you're trying to tell him know my fingers
pointing at something more important.
It's that stick. I want you to get.
So basically, when the universe Is pointing at is the access
point. It's pointing at something much
greater. There's another chapter in and I
mean I'm going to get back to you in a minute.
There's another chapter in the guide in the morning over cream.
It's section to chapter 14, I believe we're how rambam starts
talking about the dimensions of the universe.
You remember those chapters and he spends so much ink on telling
us that it's 800,000 Mill, this way, thousands of meal this way.
and I like to think to myself, imagine if her rambam had access
to the James Webb Telescope, if I run bomb, could really
understand what it means that see a star that is 13 billion
years away. So why did her rambam write
those chapters for his student, in order to induce the sense of
all awesomeness? That's where we have to be
inducing in ourselves, the arm of God.
So why don't you go ahead? And I can go on and on.
I hear your point and I actually think that when you say
Eminence, you know, sometimes people might maybe relate that
to the kabalistic version of eminence, but what you're really
trying to say is that there's no access point between man and God
literally it and what I just want to clear that up because
absolutely right. That think that's the, that's
the that's the word event is kind of a harem bomb in chapter
154, a chapter that if I when I teach the guys, I usually begin
with that chapter 154, he says that only music Arab a new Was
given that kind of access we're talking about.
But through hashem's attributes and actions.
We can induce and really come as close.
It's a trajectory of closeness. Everybody her album speaks of
flashes of lightning in a dark night and so the beginner
student gets a Flash and she's a little bit the more advanced
students have more access more flashes of light mascara Bane or
not Rama V new had full daylight all the time.
Which was a function also of the way they lived the Providence
that has got experience on an ongoing basis.
That's the way they went on their day-to-day.
He in his grave he bypassed the post rational imagination.
Basically, he got somewhere where no one else really ever
got. Okay good.
That's that's fellow Korean language.
Thank you. Yes, beautiful.
I saw that. So what I want to understand
actually now that we're on the topic of more in a bikini
because I think a lot of confusion is that we know that
mysticism wasn't written down, right?
Like you said, it was lost and there was only Russia preki not
lost. It could it can language that be
written, right? Yes.
There is no language that can exactly.
It can't be articulated, it can't be expressed and it can't
be written, right? So if that's the case, because I
think a lot of confusion is for a lot of people is that people
think that the marina became is actually massive, it's actually
the Moss and recover. But in reality it's just
pointing to its the chapter headings or mesh.
Yeah, shape hurricane. That's correct.
He says that her about that's what our mom says and that's how
you have to understand that. A letter to his student in
saying these are these are various chapters and points of
what word am I looking for of inspiration at certain points?
Your I'm saying it opens Gates, it opens venues.
And as we mature as we mature intellectually spiritually, We
Begin understanding these chapters, In different ways.
So, I actually had a conversation with, you know, you
mentioned in your book, actually, as Evie slabin for
David slave in from Sears, what wine for him in my book.
I promise that one was in contact with him, because he was
asking about the opinions and approaches, because I think a
lot of mistakes because I heard one of his presentations and he
mentioned Menachem Kellner and he was saying that and it's not
just him. There's a lot of like academics
who will say that Menachem Kellner Or denies that
maimonides in the Mystic, but when we had him on our podcast,
he cleared all that up. He said, of course, he is a
Mystic. It's just how you Define
mysticism that matters. So last night?
Yeah, go ahead. I want to hear what you have to
say about. Told me I shouldn't speak for
him, but You know, he regrets the title of his book.
People people coerced him into that title of he said that on
our podcast as we did say that I'm glad he's dead it good.
Because and I, you know, I was happy about that because there's
no doubt our rambam was a mistake, there's no doubt and
and there's no doubt that authentic Jewish mysticism is
grounded in. Rationalism, the first step.
In. Mystical Ambitions is to purge
the mind. Of the nonsense.
What? Yeah, her album talks about
this. He, I mean, he frames it as -
theology the, you know, the academics love that, you know,
the Greeks, came up with that - Theology, of course, who can
anybody, who's intelligent knows.
There's such a thing as negative theology because you can't, you
have to purge the mind. You have to clean, you have to,
you have to make your brain, tahor, the minute you start
introducing corporeality. Leti or, or any form of giving
God any form of emotions or physicality, you know, in Haram
bombs image of the palace you're facing the wrong direction.
You're not even facing the palace yet, you know, you're in
the opposite direction. And so, the process begins with
that. Now, there's an interesting
difference between Islam and Judaism.
You know, even Cena and even rouged in these great you know
Islamic philosophers who were also purists in terms of
rationalism and philosophical Precision suggest.
Even Cena says that this is good for the educated men but the
women and children, okay? Let them have a little bit of
corporeality, let them have a little bit of that.
Her rambam. Baxter of Saadia gaon.
And I mean, this is traces back. Absolutely, not the children and
the women have to have pure of mind as well.
Have to cleanse their minds in their soul and their Spirit of
the again. I am sorry to use derivative
terms of the nonsense of that, which really fills the mind with
the, the, the yeast of of the fermented bread.
I'm saying we got in the eve of Passover.
You know, cleanse, the spirit of that I was So sad and I this
past week, you know, member member of our larger Community
called to tell me that his wife was diagnosed with cancer and
he's been getting so many phone calls from people change your
mezuzot, the house, you know, recite certain tehillim every
day and he says to me Rabbi Levy.
Well what do I make of that? And so how do you respond to
someone like his? He's heartbroken get him saying
to you, he's struggling, he's suffering.
And believe me, if I felt that changing his who thought would
help even a little bit? I would say, of course, go
change your mrs. Oh, but it doesn't.
That is what I call really the cancer of the Soul.
It, it makes you dumber it weakens, you spiritually.
If I'm saying to you guys again, I remember I know all about this
is it's a horrible, horrible that, you know, and I quote in
my book. How in Eastern Europe?
Whenever a plague would hit the Jewish Community, the rabbi's
would do this investigation of checking people's mezuzot and if
a mezuzah was wrong or false, they would blame that family for
the plague. Oh my God.
And this is historically documented and you say what kind
of Judaism is that? First of all, it's so foreign to
rabbinic Judaism. But how could you ethically?
Morally. Even introduce something like
that. I'm sorry.
I'm talking so much. Go ahead.
So I actually wanted to say just for our listeners, who don't
know what - theology is or apophatic knowledge.
It's basically the idea that you can't you can't say, well, God
is but only what God is not. That's that's the way to come to
understanding of the Divine. So for for the sake of the
conversation that we're having right now the nonsense that were
discussing is that people often project their own Own ideas of
what God ought to be unto God and say that God is this and God
is there and he functions in this way, which will actually be
a great segue to our the topic of Kabbalah, which does that
often. But I wanted to before we move
ahead, I wanted to go back to our original question to you so
that we don't forget about that and then we can move on to the
topic of Kabbalah which is which is why people like my mom and
Ians come to the conclusion. That rambam was a You know that
you're an innovator and you know he's kind of string from
tradition. Where does that come from?
That's a good question. It comes from a complete lack of
sensitivity to the historical process, you know saying you
know to history, that's the real truth.
And so let me explain after the destruction of the second beta
make Dash Jews moved. moved in various directions and in the
Early Middle Ages talking very early Middle Ages with the, you
know, with the with the birth of Islam throughout North Africa,
Central Asia, as far as you know, Iraq and Iran, and then
it's movement into Europe, southern Spain.
The Jewish people. Found a society.
That. Embraced, many of rabbinic
Judaism values. Primarily the value of Education
of knowledge of the pursuit of knowledge.
Of of how to read a text. I have a chapter in my book,
called literally reading, and reading, literally, And this was
an enlightened period in history.
Many of our Sciences mathematics were born.
You know, all of your bra is the etymology of the word algebra is
Arabic. Algorithm is Arabic the
etymology of the word algorithm while this was taking place.
Europe, was in the Dark Ages. It was run by the Catholic
church that denied people access to knowledge to thinking to
philosophy. and, If? Any culture changed Judaism.
And I say this with respect, Michael Goodman is my friend as
are many in that Haver in that group.
It's the ballet to Sephora. That's the Europeans who
introduced so many foreign ideas.
Into Judaism. Now again we're all one people.
I want to be clear and time and evolution of our religion and of
our culture has created a large, net around many different
Groups, and, and, and, and, and, and, and practitioners.
But her rambam opens, his mishneh Torah with a chain of
the mascara of the tradition and he does that For a very clear
purpose. He's not the first to do that.
Rough Saadia gaon did it, but hopefully gone did it all?
So this was very important to them to put out there.
You're going to read my Torah. I just want you to know.
I'm not inventing it. I'm the next Link in the chain
from You know, that preceded me the catalonian Spanish Community
culture tradition that came in after the rambam is time, which
was influenced by the franco-german, kind of schools.
And like you said, Christianity, I didn't say that.
You said that, but oftentimes, yeah.
But that's that's obviously we were more influenced by Islamic
culture and they were more influenced by Christian culture,
And when I don't think they were influence, I think we found a a
cultural society that resonated with with our values or is
rabbinic values. The the one, the example I use
to make this point very clearly is the tragedy of Revenue
avraham Ibanez, ra He went North, he went to Christian
Spain, and he couldn't find the place.
He had to go from town to town, from City to City, because he
couldn't find a community that embraced his Andalusian
traditions. Well, that's his time.
I mean, the, the Ashkenazi jewry was extremely minimal, right?
It was like less than ten percent, I think of all World
jewelry at the time. I don't know those that this.
Yeah, there's he went from wherever he went.
So my question is this because the rambam has pointed out the
connection between, you know, the go Nick tradition and
delusion, which is, I think it was a remote Chicano, right?
And and and it kind of, you know, it kind of makes it
interesting from the catalonian kind of perspective.
What is their chain of Missoura, in terms of connecting to the
groaning, besides starting their works.
Like do they have a direct line and same.
Chin. I don't think I do.
Or is that too controversial to ask?
Yeah, it's not just controversial to ask.
I don't want to presume myself to be a historian to that
degree. I just, I don't see it.
I don't see a linkage, I don't see a connection, that's the
real truth. So, that it's the way.
And I point this out, in my book, the difference, in terms
of the way European jury, read text and the way the eundel
overseeing tradition or are Relationship to the text.
So radically different do, radically different II.
Yeah. Can we can we Circle back to
something that I want to get a little vacation on?
So the goal of mysticism, in end illusion and delusion thinking
is, you know, mystica, as you said, right?
I want to Define terms. What does that mean?
That there's a union with God?
What, what is the nature of that?
In, we Define the terms because I think that, when someone hears
that they can interpret that in many ways, a hundred ways, I
bought the big hoot, that's correct.
And so the truth of the matter is There's more than one way of
interpreting that there is no doubt about it.
And and, and, and, you know, I could leave it with that.
But I'll just say the following or at least within the
Andalusian. I kinda, I mean.
Yeah. According to her, rambam,
straight out Andalusia in Tradition.
Yes, prophecy is real. Prophecy exists.
And no apologetics here, I'm saying to you, call it prophecy
exist. There's a beautiful passuk in
the Democrat and a sharpness, all most Arab a new is.
Saurabh a new is, the mission is complete and the grammatical
structure of the word. Is.
That mascara, been you could hear.
By God is speaking to himself by dubbed by the bear.
A love Hashem in the. And the grammatical structure of
the word is that Andrea? She brings it out that God is
speaking to God self and most terrible news Hearing in on the
conversation. Uh-huh, I'm sure he's.
Okay, I'm saying to you. And so another element of
mystical Union is just being clued in to the knowledge and
wisdom. That is, I'm going to use again,
you know, new age, terms in the universe.
Mystical Union means when I become wiser, I live on a plane
of higher consciousness. Who's spiritually?
You know, the that. Is deepened.
And one it's transformative completely transformative.
And so yes, that term means many, many things.
And Depending on where one is in the trajectory of spiritual
growth. And so and so, you know, my
friend Rabbi Professor calendar says no, you know, there's no
such thing, you can't, you can't.
Have a union with the infinite and I'll argue that.
It means a lot of things. And I believe that you can, I
believe that you can and I've encountered people that have and
our tradition is based on the fact that there were such a
thing as profits in the VM who did.
I'm wondering if perhaps this, this difference between
Professor Kellner, and you is more semantic than actual could
be, might be because because it could be, that Professor
calendar is just stating an actual fact.
We cannot you cannot connect with God.
God is, you know, transcended that I do.
I don't think you would even deny that.
But I think you would say that even Though there is you know,
God's Transcendence and you know, we can't know, literally,
let's call it, you know, connect with God and like, you know, the
way like I connect to, you know, you another human being because
you can course not Jim and that I do.
But you're saying that there is such a thing as a mystical
experience, however, part of this to Define that, but there
is a way for men to elevate from within himself and which are
clear Consciousness and absolutely, I actually don't
think he would probably argue with that.
But yeah, I And I understand what you're saying.
Absolutely. I I put my book out there and I
continue teaching this and those who join me.
You know, for, you know, serious Sephardic Jewish meditation are
beneficiaries of what I believe is a profound Jewish mystical
experience teachings. So we have about 10, 12 minutes
left. I want, I want one minute to
call you guys out on something. Tell me when I can do that.
We're going absolutely. Now now, okay, so you guys call
your program. Judaism demystify II, believe,
Judaism is completely justifies. The means we should.
We should we should clarify that demystified actually just means
making complex, matters simpler. That's really what it means.
Or in reality really is that what it's not that Judaism is
the, you're not trying to demystify Judaism but we, but I
knew when I, when I came up with this name, that it would be a
Something that will, you know, rattle people little bit.
Okay. Yeah, okay.
Good. Because you know, but I think
that I think a little bit more to the point is, is that really,
it's really Kabbalah that that is something that, you know, we
we try to demystify, you understand?
So we I don't think that Judaism demystified.
I don't think that was meant to mean that there is no such thing
as mysticism, but rather popular mysticism, right?
Popular mysticism demystified. I think that I've got a pretty,
but it was the average, you know, Orthodox Jew is not
familiar with the mice, a merkava, they understand
mysticism as Kabbalah. Yeah.
So that's so that actually is a great segue to the next part.
The last part, which is about your, Feast, the thesis in your
book about mysticism, being vastly different than Pebble.
Ah, so if you can give us, please a background about that,
okay? Jewish mysticism.
Has to be solely focused on God. Kabbalah, on the other hand is
focused on. The human being on the person.
On the individual. On the experience I had on on,
you know, how devotional I am and I show how do I show my
devotion by you know, if cause I eat of matzah is what the sahami
mask of Beyond, you know, a ten cuz I hate even saying because
it means that I'm going to have some impact on God or on the
universe and be able to twist God's arm and you know be in his
right. You know, being his good list.
People list and how rambam is so clear?
I mean to the point where He's so brave.
He says clearly if I can pull up my guide, I would read it to you
ten copies everywhere except on this desk how rambam says That.
You're closest to God through knowledge, and he explicitly
says not through prayers and fasting.
Now, he doesn't mean that he's against prayer, doesn't mean
that he's against fasting when it's appropriate.
But her rambam is teaching us, that the mystical experience is
my movement towards God, not God's movement towards me.
And this is where we part ways. Not to mention, not to mention,
the carelessness that beginning with the Zohar.
And through all the kabbalistic, writers, the This with
corporeality and God having emotions, and God having Mercy
or God being angry, or God, this or God.
It's again, I've had these conversations with cabalists
here and in Israel, of course, I don't believe God has a body.
So why are you using that language?
So there's this carelessness like it just it's okay doesn't
it doesn't matter, you know, this idea that you know, Chabad
loves her rambam. But they have big problems with
her rambam. Problem number one is aarambam
believes in being educated and while Chabad.
There are many educated Chabad but in there, yes, she vote.
They don't educate their kids except through the traditional
Chabad. Text problem.
Number two, they have is the soul.
You know, Chabad as well as European jury bought into this.
And I apologize for saying this Christian notion that depending
on who you are is depending the soul, you have.
So if you're the Monarch, you have a great Divine Soul, if
your nobility you have a lower Soul if you're a peasant, you
have a lesser soul and if you're a you know, just a slave, you
have no soul. And so what is Judaism say?
Add promote this notion that the Jewish people have an elevated
soul in the going, have an animal Soul.
How could you be? How could you walk a moral
ethical line by believing that? She doesn't make sense.
In Haram bombs economy of ideas. All human beings are equal
Jewish. Non Jewish religious, not
religious. Your relationship with God is a
dependent. Depends on your actions.
Not on the soul, your created with and then, the last problem
Chabad has with real pure Jewish mysticism, is that Meets vote
are some sort of reward, you know, I'm saying?
It's like some sort of checklist pending machine.
Yeah, exactly. Exactly in this idea of the
mezuzot, or about this, or about that.
That's just the way they operate and that's why they stand on
street corners and say, you put on tefillin for 30 seconds.
You, you know you've gotta check up in heaven.
The meets offensive. Honestly, it's offensive to
think that way. I'm offended for God.
I'm offended for Hashem. That's the real truth.
And so this whole movement is out there that calls itself.
Kabbalistic movement has nothing to do with rabbinic Judaism.
It's so far from the traditional hamim put forth for us which is
recorded in Haram bombs mishneh Torah and Haram bombs.
Egret Haram bombs hockey demote and Haram bombs more anyhoo him.
I think I think a lot of the issues you see today is that,
you know, even there's there's also this product you know this
difference between let's say Jabara other Hasidic groups that
believe in reincarnation and rambam has very clear that
there's finality after death and to them you know it's it leaves
it opens up so many problems just to introduce the idea of
reincarnation especially because it's not rooted in Jewish
tradition. Yeah, it's that's a complicated
issue and that it was a complicated for her rambam.
And it's complicated for us and I'd rather leave that they're,
you know, I'm saying because we, we do believe in creating a
team. It's one of our, it's one of our
own bumps 13 principles of Faith, but exactly what that
means is that different story altogether.
I just, you know what? I try to do in my book and I
hope your listeners will. You know, at least take a peek
into the book. It's appearing it in many
libraries already, and if it's not in your local library, ask
the library didn't order it. Well, I try to address are many
of these hot points in the kabbalistic.
You know, popular kabbalistic literature.
What is the soul neshama? And nefesh, what is immortality
according to real, you know, according to a Mystical
tradition. What is, you know, this this
idea, this practice that I called do mia.
You know, it's this, it's this conscious silence that is
required of us by Dome aharon. His children had just died and
instead of screaming and yelling by domakr on it says, conscious
silence, The Preserves, you know, his His, you know, his
very being and and and in my mind, Indian thought, its likho
do mia tehila, the greatest Praise of God, is this conscious
silence, the ability to just to be inward as opposed to be
outward. And here's another difference,
you know, Cabela's. All about outwardness and Jewish
mysticism and Olson is about inwardness.
So much more much to talk about this.
I'm very excited to be able to start reading it.
This Shabbat and I think that this is an extremely important
thing. I think that rambam is usually
associated with, like, you said Aristotle, rationalism.
And there is Of that for sure but I think that there's not
enough people trying to translate rambam is mysticism
for today's today's world. So that books like yours start
the conversation, more on. Well what was the Run bombs
understanding of mysticism meditation our our achieving a
higher Consciousness. These conversations are not had
very much and so what you did by writing this book and by coming
on the Pod is extremely important and we hope to
continue that conversation and if you can plug, if you can plug
your book where we could find it and where people can reach you,
thank you. Okay, so people can reach me by
just Googling my name and there's many access points to
getting to me and I'm happy to connect with people.
That's just looking one of my MOS.
I respond to all emails because I love that that that you like
the guy spent good amount of time doing that.
My book, this book of mine is available on Amazon that's
called the mysticism of under Lucy.
Are you just put my name into Amazon and you could get it.
I also have I started a Blog recently in back.
What's it called? Stack substance that stack
right? And just a depository of place
where I can put my thoughts, my ideas, some articles.
You know, I you know, someone asked me an email, I got
recently is you know, was how was her, rambam really a Mystic.
And so I wrote him this long email and I now I put it into my
little blog here, it's just available for everybody to look
at, you know, just some thoughts on pesach that that I put out
there. It's, you know, it's young and
I'm just gonna try to, you know, just a place where I can put
dump material. You know I'm saying, Accessible
to whoever's interested. My really my hope is with you
guys help and with help of others like us, you know, the
Cobra movement and others, like us really to create a movement
that will bring back Judaism to, to its original Glory, you know,
to a nation of people that pursue New education and said,
said and thinking and God, that's really what it's about.
And that's really what it's about.
And try to really move away from the Mythology, and thought
program. So much that there's just no
redeeming quality to them at all.
I wish there was, I wish there was people tell me, it makes
people religious doesn't speak to me.
Honestly, that doesn't speak to me.
I think people should be religious but, you know, they
have to find the right vent Avenue.
You don't frighten them to religion or you don't lie to
them into religion. You have to tell them, you have
to show them what the beauty of religion is.
Amazing it. I met really this was a
wonderful talk and thank you hope to speak soon.
Be in touch and hopefully we'll get to join you for one of your
classes or more of a fantastic. I'd love your feedback on the
book. I know Ben you started reading
it eventually I'd love to get you know your input and I'm
going to email you. How many emails will discuss
something? Yeah and send me your email
anyway so I can put you onto my blog, you know, Work.
Short shorts. Wonderful gentleman.
Thank you. Shabbat shalom.
Hey guys, thanks so much for tuning in to the Judy's and
demystified podcast. We really appreciate all your
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