Welcome to Judaism Demystified, a podcast for the perplexed.
We are joined by Frank Mink. Frank Mink is probably one of
the most interesting people I've ever met in my life and truly an
inspiration. I don't want to give away too
much in the intro. You're going to find out
everything you need to know about his life, but it's really
the ultimate redemption story and so inspiring.
You're really going to enjoy it. He is a.
Former Neo Nazi gang member who spent time in prison and
basically discovered his Jewish roots.
I'm not going to give it away right now, but many believe his
story influenced Edward Norton's character in American History X
and I really think you guys will appreciate this episode.
It's a little different than what we usually do, but
sometimes you just need a good story.
Without further ado, Frank Mink, thank you for joining the
Judaism Demystified podcast. We are honored to have Frank
Mink, who is a ex Skinhead and his story is unbelievable.
So before we get into it, I just wanna I wanted to thank you.
You've personally inspired me a lot.
I've watched your story on a few channels and I'm like, I gotta
have this guy on. So if you can just tell the
audience just how everything started with you, your whole
beginning of your journey. Yeah.
Well, thank you. Thank you for having me on and
thank you for asking me. I'm honored.
I'm always honored to to get a chance to to talk and share my
story and share what I'm up to today, so.
Because I obviously I. Have a purpose and I'm doing
things for a purpose. So the start off with my story
is I wasn't raised Jewish at all.
In fact didn't even know I was Jewish.
Was raised in an Irish Catholic neighborhood.
Was raised believing I was just Irish and Italian which was for
South Philly. That's kind of the perfect mix
in where I grew up. My mom and my my my mom rebelled
from her Irish Catholic family and later went and got with an
Italian guy who was like a Rocky Balboa in the 70s.
So you know, Rocky Balboa. My dad was kind of like a Rocky
Balboa superstar, guy of the neighborhood, tough fighter, all
that good stuff, you know, sell drugs and my mom like the bad
boy. And that's how I came to be.
Those two didn't last very long. Not at all.
In fact, you know, I my mom probably moved out from him, his
house and where they his neighborhood probably when I was
about 2:00-ish, maybe three. And we moved in with my
grandparents back in the Irish Catholic neighborhood.
And anyway, my mom, me and my mom wound up moving in on our
own and my mom struggled at times.
I remember being on food stamps as a child.
I remember having food stamps, like literally being on welfare
and having food stamps and being knowing that that was like, for
the poor people. Like as a kid.
I mean, that's my thought. You know, it's for the poor
people. And I was embarrassed, you know,
I wasn't ashamed of my mom, but I was just kind of embarrassed
of our situation sometimes. And I knew that she was doing
the best she could. Like even back then I knew she
was doing the best she could. And so we struggled.
And so my mom wound up getting remarried to a man who was not a
good man to me. You know, he, he did not like
that I was Italian. He didn't like anything about
me. I mean, moved in my mom's house.
He's now taking over the house. And here's this little scrappy
young guy. I was maybe 9 going on 10 when
he moved in my home and just not not a nice man to me.
And I basically lived in a house with a bully who liked to bully
me around and and punish me and beat me and just not wasn't
good. That's all I could say.
I don't want to, you know, can't really give his side of the
story. But I was a child and I hated
going home every day. I hated going home so badly that
I wish sometimes I would get hit by a car like that when I would
come home from school and I only had two blocks from my school to
my house. You know, it's in South Philly
little, you know, little neighborhoods and stuff.
But my school was only two blocks away, man.
And I wish some days it was 2 miles away.
So I'd just hate nothing to walk straight home to school, I mean
from a school right home. And I would try to get hit by
cars because I was like, if I didn't want to die, you know, I
was a kid, I didn't want to die. I just wanted to get hit by a
car so I can go to a hospital for the day instead of going
home like I thought that would be nicer.
And. I'd be kinder.
And everyone in South Philly gets hit by a car.
Like that's just the thing to do.
You live in a little small and narrow streets.
Everyone's zooming around, everyone's related.
So you're always getting run over by a family member or a
cousin can't sue anybody. You know what I mean?
You just get hit by a car and you shut your mouth and and I'm
the one kid that wants to get hit by a car and it just doesn't
happen. And anyway, eventually I got in
trouble at school. I was 13 and I walked home from
school and my step dad was waiting for me and beat the
living crap out of me. And while he was beating the
crap out of me, he told me to pack my stuff.
I was going to move with my dad and my dad lived in a rough
neighborhood even way more rougher neighborhood than my
mom's. But it was rough.
And I just remember I was happy. Like I was happy.
I was at least not going to go home to him anymore.
I knew I was going to go to a rougher neighborhood and I knew
things were not going to be easy.
But I was like, so long as I ain't got to see that man
anymore, I'm cool and so. But I was sad, you know what I
mean? My mom gave me up, man.
She gave me up for this guy. Like she wanted this
relationship with him, this work so bad.
She was willing to to throw me away.
And. And that's what I knew.
So anyway, that was he also abusing the mom?
No, no, no. My mom's a tough cookie, man.
My mom was a my mom was a drinker and a brawler.
You, you, she she she she would hit him sometimes.
Not about me, just about, you know, whatever.
My mom, he didn't abuse my mom. My mom, my mom was a tough
little cookie. So he minded his PS and QS with
her in in a way. And they were both into drinking
and drugs really bad. But I I never seen him hit my
mom ever. And I I actually see my mom hit
him a few times when she was lit up pretty good.
So, you know, so yeah, she he he just like taking it out on me.
That's just the way it was. So anyway, that's that year and
middle of the school year I had to go move to my dad's
neighborhood. My dad lives up in southwest
West Philly. Some of you guys, if you ever
seen the show, Fresh Prince of Bel Air.
Will Smith thinks about West Philly, born and raised on a
playground where I spent most of my days.
That's my dad's neighborhood. So my white butt moved into that
neighborhood that he moved out of.
And so I had to go to an all black school.
My dad had a little bar, like a little Tavern that he basically
lived at all the time. I never seen the guy.
And I just went to the school in this black neighborhood and the
black school and and as a new white kid in the middle of the
school year, all along I was kind of a little skateboarder,
punk rocker, athlete. I'm a, you know, born and bred
athlete and I've always played sports.
Even I was like a little punk rock kid always succeeded in
sports, always set records, whatever, you know, not talking
ego stuff, just the truth. I was a really, really good
athlete. It's in my, it's in my dad's
family's blood. They're All Star athletes and it
was in me too. So anyway, I get to this new
school man, where I'm, you know, start fist fighting with black
kids all the time. My other school I went to before
this, my mom's neighborhood, like it was a very diverse
school. And we all kind of got along for
the most part because it's black.
It was white, it was it's Irish, it was Italian, it was
Cambodian, it was Puerto Rican. Now I move and it's 20 white
kids and not 20%. There was just twenty of us that
went to that school and it was tough.
And I would come home from school and I could have a black
eye or I can have a trophy in my hand.
And my parents, neither my parents or my step parents are
gonna say, huh, how'd you get that son?
It's just, it wasn't wasn't parenting, parenting style.
And anyway, I start cutting school.
Tell you a real quick funny story about that is I started
cutting school every day and it was Philadelphia.
So I would take the train down in the Center City, Philly.
And when I would go down to Center City, I would always like
sneak in the museums and you know, there's a lot of.
Historical stuff, you know I. Mean we have the most famous
crack in all the world, crack in the Liberty Bell.
So everyone comes from all over the world to see our crack.
But anyway, I loved the city of Philly and I loved the
historical part of it and I used to go sneak into Ben Franklin's
house every day like I used to go down there almost every day
and I would he was one of the main exhibits, I would always
sneak him and cause all the school kids that were there for
school class trips, they would be coming out of there and
they'd come out the back door. And you know a big long line of
them, 'cause they were went through there as a class trip.
And I wait until the door open. I pop in, I'd run in there and
go hang out all day and do all the exhibits and learn
everything about Ben Franklin. Fast forward before I'm going to
tell you, is when I get into this group.
But the next year I went back to school for a very brief moment.
And The funny thing was I went back to school for a very brief
moment. Then following year and when I
was there, the school goes, hey, we're going to Ben Franklin's
house for a class trip. And I'm telling everyone in my
class, I'm like, man, I sneak in that place.
I'll tell you it's all about it. I'll show you all the exhibits.
I'll show you how this works. That works.
I'm, you know, bragging. I'm kidding.
You know, just did this for a year, you know, a couple of
months I snuck in this guy's house.
So anyhow, they we. What happened was we go down for
the class trip, and as we go into the class trip, pull up in
the front door. Now again, I'm bragging,
everybody. Hey, I sneak in here.
I sneak in here. Well, soon you pull up in the
front door. I've never been through the
front door. There's a big sign.
We get off the school bus. There's a big sign says free
emissions. So, and I'll tell you this, I
mean, I just tell you that story just to tell you what's wrong
with my brain. Because when I was stealing the
knowledge, I could tell you everything about Ben Franklin.
As soon as I found out it was free, I would.
They're stupid, you know what I mean?
Like just crazy, you know, so that's that's that was my life
in an eggshell right there. Well, let's go back now.
So what happens is that summer I got to get out of the city, my
uncle who moved up to the Lancaster, PA area, not
Lancaster, PA, but the Lancaster, PA area.
And if any of you guys have ever been through that area or know
that area, it's all Amish people.
So my aunt and uncle, they moved from the from South Philly
civilians and they moved up in that area and they brought their
kids with them. And my cousins hated it when
they first moved up there. They hated living up there.
I mean, they went from living right around the corner from all
of their cousins and literally we all lived right around the
corner from each other to now being up in farm lands with
Amish people. So my uncle used to come get us
younger cousins to come hang out with those cousin UPS there.
They're trying to, you know, ease it out a little bit, you
know what I mean? Police bring some of the home up
to them. And so my uncle used to always
come get me because I didn't have my, you know, always being
passing forth between my mom and dad.
I really kind of lost. And my uncle would always say,
and me and my cousins that lived up there were very, very good
friends. I mean, I loved hanging out with
my cousins up there, so. And it was for me, it was a
great, I loved it. They hated it.
I loved it. I mean seeing, you know, Amish
people and horse and buggies and seeing cows and pigs and
chickens and I don't know if you know it like Amish people like
really turn butter for like, they don't do it because they're
reacting, reacting it, you know, re enacting it.
They really just turn butter. And that stuff to me was like
fascinating. So I loved it up there.
And anyway, I go up there for the summer, this summer.
I spent the summer before up there, so I that's when I became
a skateboarder punk rock kid with that same cousin.
We got a reel in the punk rock, reel in the skateboarding.
So I go up that summer, this summer now, and he I walk into
his room and he's got like a swastika flag.
He's got like a Confederate flag.
He's got stuff about like neo Nazis on this wall, like
newspaper articles. Then my cousin comes home and
when he comes home they as they come home, he was Shay bald and
the year before, man, he was, you know, mohawked out and punk
rocked out. And now he's like Shay bald,
gets nicely cropped, pants on, nice jacket on and you know,
just looks different, looks cleaner, looks neater.
And we start talking about, you know, we start talking about
what he's into and he starts telling me about how he's into
this new thing, these Neo Nazi groups and how he's, you know,
they're for the white race. And I'm like, all right,
whatever. And how how old were you at the
time? 13 I'm 13, going on 14 years
old, right this summer. It's like, yeah, I I went up
there right in the beginning of May and I was turning about to
turn 14, so and I go up there. Why do they shave their heads?
It's an old English thing. It's from England.
It was the old working class English thing.
Skinheads ain't racist. They didn't start out neo Nazis.
They started out in England, you know, in the late 60s, early
70s, mid 60s, you know, into the 70s.
And they were English working style, you know, working class
kids. And that was just the kind of
the thing to do. They were like all English
working, working clothing and Doc Martins were like the
English working boots. So it's all about like the
working class style and some of you know, and some of the, if
you look at some of the old historical stuff, some of the
old Skinhead said because they're always fighting, even in
England, even though they weren't like, again, they
weren't like a racist group to start with.
They were like kind of political in a way.
And they were, you know, but they weren't.
There was black skinheads and white skinheads back then.
And Jim, they were very into like the Jamaican music.
And so it was a little different.
But a lot of them like to shave their head because you couldn't
pull their pull their hair in a fight because a lot of it's
about fighting. So yeah, so you can't.
And it takes one less weapon away from the people you're
fighting with. So that was, you know, one of
the rumors and I I kind of agree with that.
So. So all these other Neo Nazis
used to come over my cousin's house at night.
And when they would come over, you know, they, they were older
guys. They were, you know, 1617 year
olds. They had cars.
They sometimes would bring one or two girls over with them.
They always brought beer and to me, man, they were just totally
cool. They just were.
And they'd swastika tattoos and whatever, you know, I don't
know, I think it's cool. But when these guys start
sitting around, they start talking about multiracial
society don't work. Now they're talking amongst
themselves. You know, they're 16 and 17 year
olds and they start talking about like black people.
I can tell like these people ain't been around black people
before, you know what I mean? Like, they live in, they live in
the the farms, they live around Amish people, not black people.
So when they start talking about like multiracial society don't
work, I don't know what that means.
But once they start talking about blacks and whites not
getting along, I start kind of like, even my cousin would say,
yo, you just understand. Like, my cousin over here, like,
really lives in one of those neighborhoods you all talk
about. So I would, they would always
ask me, like, what's it like? What's it like being around
there? What's it like being around
black people? What's it like?
Is it really this rough? Is it really?
And for me, that was someone asking me, how's my day?
You know what I mean? Like, someone was asking me,
how's my life? Because my parents didn't ask
me. My parents never asked me.
How'd you get that black guy? How'd you get the.
They just didn't. I didn't.
They didn't have time for me. And that's just the truth.
And now here's these guys would sit around and drink and be
like, so what's it really like? And to me that was someone
going, yo, how's your day? How's your life Frank?
Are you OK? And I got to tell these guys
like, no. Like I'm it's hard where I live
it's really hard. So the crazy thing was when I
would go and I was trying to go in and hanging out with them and
they would go to nightclubs and they would go to like concerts
and punk rock shows and I would go with them and I still had my
little skater haircut, but they all were shade bald and they
were all together. And other Neo Nazis would show
up and they were shade bald and and they would all get together
and they were cool. And I what I noticed was when
they would stand outside at nightclubs, everyone was afraid
of them. You know what I mean?
Everyone was scared of them. Are they the teenagers?
A lot of them are teenagers or. Yeah, they're all teenagers.
They're all teenagers. They're all all teen, all 1617,
so maybe 18 at the most year old kids.
So sorry. So what happened was when I
noticed that people were scared. Of them.
I love that, you know, up until that point in my life, I can
look back on it now. I didn't know it then but I look
back on it now like you know I was a scared little boy and at
at 14 I was still a 14 year old kid.
But I was probably I probably stopped mentally growing from
when my step dad moved in so probably 8 or 9.
And I feared everything. I feared my parents, I feared my
step parents. I feared my school.
I feared if I was gonna have enough food to eat.
Some days now, people fear me. All right.
I like this. So let's.
So they asked me to shave my head.
And later on that night and I remember they shaved my head.
And you know there was something else that I had happened in my
neighborhood that I heard a lot. I would hear people always say
things like my uncles and cousins and different people in
the neighborhood. They'd always say if you picked
up a penny, what are you, a Jew? Everyone laughed.
Picked up a penny. Where if Johnny didn't bring you
back the right change. If Johnny didn't bring you give
you the right change of the story, the first thing you can
say is, well, you know, it's go to Johnny always trying to Jew
somebody. And everybody laughed.
It was just, and look, my neighborhood had ethnic jokes
for everybody, right? I mean, joked about the blacks,
you joked about the Latinos, you joked about the Italians.
And those all groups did the same thing about us, right?
I mean, it was just the nature of the beast of living in a, you
know, metro area like that. But I remember not, I remember
not getting why they would say these racist jokes and why that
was so funny, right. I would ask my uncle, like, why
is that funny? Like when you would say Johnny
Juju today and he goes to tell me one day when I was probably
about 10 years old, this was years before this was happening.
I said, why is that so funny When you say Johnny tried to Jew
you and he goes, well, see Frank, the Jews, they're
notorious for money. And you know what?
You'll get the joke when you're older.
It's a funny joke. You'll get it when you're older.
Well, I can tell you that when I went to my first Neo Nazi rally,
my first little get together or first little group where I was
going to go sit with these guys in there because I shaved my
head. I'm not part of this group.
I'm sitting in this as a Bible studies.
They taught how to hate through the Bible and it's his Bible
studies. And there's this man, the guy
who's in his, you know, manhood to me.
He's probably in his mid 20s. He's preaching to all of us and
he starts talking about that. He goes, you know the Jews
secretly funnel money from the Federal Reserve and they, you
know, distribute it throughout all the Jews in the world and in
Israel. And what happened to me while he
was saying this stuff? For one I'm 14 years old.
I don't know what the federal I'm 48.
I don't still don't know what the Federal Reserve does.
You know what I mean? It's always bad stuff, you know.
But now he's like the Federal Reserve is controlled by the
Jews. And what we call back then ZOG,
and that was the name of the the.
When they talk about the deep state, you hear people talk
about deep state today. Well, we actually had a name for
it wasn't just, it was called ZOG, Zionist Occupational
Government. And it's the secret Jewish
government that runs the world and runs America and runs out of
everything. And so they would say ZOG is
secretly taking money out of the Federal Reserve and da da, da,
da, da. And as he's explaining it, all I
remember as I sat in that meeting was I get my uncle's
joke. I get the joke.
I must be older. I must be older now.
I got the joke and my uncle said when I'm older I will get it.
I must be older and I want to be older.
I want to be adult. The adults in my life left me to
fend for myself. And so I want to know what they
know. So I was in man.
Like I I was like, wow, I'm gonna learn.
I'm learning the secrets of the world.
These guys are real. And that thing and that movement
became my life from that point on.
Can you can you explain just one thing you mentioned was that
they would teach hate through the Bible.
Oh yeah. So I'm assuming this means like
the verses in the New Testament that are like anti Jewish or
seemingly anti Jewish or. Oh, no, no, no, no, no.
No, you're gonna. Oh, the Torah.
Oh, yes. Yeah, you want to you already
want to hear a good story. Yeah, you're gonna you're gonna
love it. And and then I'm.
I'm gonna tell you the story and then I'm gonna show you how
factually this is what they really believed.
You know you're going to, it's going to blow your mind because
the stuff that you've probably heard before.
So they say that when Adam and Eve and Hava was going to, when
the serpent man comes to to Eve to to partake of this fruit of
knowledge and this this tree that that's not what really
happened. They say, come on now, you got
to read between the lines. Why wouldn't they be able to
take from one tree? The thing is that they never had
sex before. So what happens is the serpent
man comes to her and he gets to have some action with her and he
impregnates her with king. So what she does is once she
does this one deed, now she has this, this knowledge of this,
this deed. OK, so now she goes back and she
knows that she's pregnant. So she runs back to Adam.
That's why she tricks him and says, hey, you have to do this
with me. And it's not eating a piece of
fruit. It's not partaking of the fruit,
it's partaking of her And that now she's going to lie to him
and say the Kane, this first baby in her is his.
So now we got the first Maury Povich episode going on.
OK, right. But let me just get even gets
even more weirder. So now that Satan or the demons
and this demon snake person in the story, he since he
impregnates her with Cain. Cain later on kills Abel, Cain
is banished and Cain is the first real evil Jew on the
planet. So you will hear this.
Now, just so you know, when next time you ever look up or
research any of these groups, these Christian Identity, these
hardcore Christian conservative groups, and they and you look up
where they say things like the Jews are the seed of Satan.
I don't know if you've ever heard it's a saying the Jews are
the seed of Satan. It goes back to that story.
It's from that story. Or you you hear like lizard,
lizard or or or what is it called serpent.
You hear these kind of, yeah, they they they say these kind of
things. Yeah, yeah.
Reptilian, you know. Shapeshitter, you know.
Yeah, yeah. So, so that's that's, I mean,
and when and when I would hear that stuff now I was born and
raised again. I wasn't, you know, I didn't
know I was Jewish until later, much, much later on.
So what's funny is I was born and raised Irish Catholic.
And I had, you know, was just born and raised Catholic.
So I went to catechism. I went and I learned, you know,
that Bible. And I never heard Father Wassell
or Sister Mary Agnes, the nuns. They never taught me that story
that these guys were teaching me, you know, 'cause.
And so it was always again. It was always like unlocking
something. Something's new, something's
deeper. Something's this way.
So one second turn on the light here.
Sorry, guys. I'm gonna turn on the light.
That's OK. Yeah, that should run better.
Sorry. It might edit that out.
So I'm gonna try and leave these lights on.
So any so anyhow, you know, so that was just some of the
stories I mean. And then you know all people
other than the Jews who are from the Satan, all everyone else's
beasts of the fields. If you can't get blood in the
face. That's this this theory.
Even though that we know and I know now that Jewish people
blush everyone, a lot of people blush.
Even light skinned black people blush.
Even black people can blush. But there's even a a theory and
a saying called Blood in the face.
If they can't get Blood in the face, usually meaning European,
then you're not white and you're not.
You means you don't have a conscience and that only God
gave the people that blush A conscience.
Wow. Crazy.
Yeah. And now we need to pick up arms
because the in the in their New Testament and then you know at
one just one part, just one part JC said or Jesus says Jesus says
sell your cloak and buy a sword and to them that means arm
yourself to the gills with guns because of that one little part
in the book like they take that and they run with it like that's
why they stockpile weapons because one time this person in
that book said sell your sell your cloak and bias word and to
them that means ARS Mac. 10s. Whatever.
So just just so you know what you're dealing with here.
And that's what I'm running. Do you feel any like connection
to like the the Christianity or you were like a spiritual person
at that point? You're just being told you're
just being taught this stuff and you're not really like,
connecting to anything, are you? Yeah, no.
I mean, there was no, there was no peace.
There was no connection. There was no, you know, there
was nothing working on a relationship with with with
Hashem. There's no working of relation.
No, it's. I wanna bleed this stuff so I
can ram it down your throat and tell you that you're wrong in
them. I'm right.
That's it. That's all I learned it for.
I learned it's why ammunition in an argument, you know, so so
yeah, I mean and a lot of the groups.
That run in these neo Nazi worlds are are.
Religious like that. So now, guys, I just, I mean, I
fully get involved. I go back to the city of
Philadelphia because I can't live up in the farms the whole
summer. Obvious.
I mean, for the summer I did. Now I had to go back down.
And then I just started recruiting people.
It was very, very easy in my in my dad's neighborhood and in my
mom's neighborhood, because my dad's neighborhood had a little
alcove of white people. And in my mom's neighborhood,
obviously, was Irish. And there was.
Italian kids up on the other end and you know, it was very easy
because it was what you do, man. It's now I don't know that I'm
pulling the greatest bait and switch of all time on people.
I don't. Know that I think I'm really
doing what I'm supposed to be doing, and that is defending the
white race 'cause look at what the blacks are doing.
But the truth is, the greatest bait and switch ever pulled is
this. Someone says, man, I wouldn't be
proud of MyHeritage. How come whenever I say I'm
going to be proud to be white, then everyone screams I'm a
racist, but black people can say and this is real arguments guys,
I'm I'm using word for word arguments that people said so
they would say, but if I say I'm proud to be white, then I'm a
racist. But if they say they're proud to
be black, oh, that's OK And I say yeah, yeah, that's right.
And they say yeah, I have they had BET.
But we don't have, you know, white entertainment television,
not knowing at the time that all television to white Internet,
you know, there wasn't many black people and friends, you
know, I mean, you know, so let's be real.
Well, when I would hear guys like that say that, I would
always say, OK, well, so I want to believe that stuff too, man.
Like I I believe in our heritage.
So if you want to say you're proud to be white, man, come
join my group because that's what we're all about.
Well, when we would go and you would come to our meetings, we
never talked about being proud of our heritage.
We always talked about their heritage and how come they're
messing everything up and they're always treading and
they're bad. Like you never talked about our
heritage in a good way. We only talked about other
people. So the greatest baits and
switches, these people want to have pride in this race, but
when they come join our group, it's all about hate.
It's all about look at what they're doing.
They're destroying everything. So it's this.
Huge bait and switch, man. And and I participated in that
for years. And again, guys, just so you
know, 'cause you probably think like I I didn't think I was
evil. I didn't think I was bad.
I thought I was really trying to defend the white race of America
and that you know that other no one else in the world understood
what we understood. You know, like you're really, I
mean, you know it's a brainwashing in a way.
It's A and and it's, you know, it's very, very prevalent today.
It's huge today in this country. You know, it's just changed.
Forms a little bit. But it's still there.
It's the same thing. So anyway guys, as I was in the
movement, I just, you know, was very violent, very violent,
Kidman. And I mean 15/16/17, I'm I'm,
I'm making a name for myself in this movement.
I'm recruiting. I'm making big crews.
Everywhere. I'm I'm I'm harming people I'm
like torturing antifa's you guys have probably all heard of the
group Antifa and you know the anti fascist movement well that
was our biggest enemy that's our that's our enemy that's our
sworn enemy and so we'd fight with them and plot and scheme
against them and they plot and scheme against us and.
I used to. Kidnap them and hold them for
ransom and it was a ongoing war and so and I know with other
groups and and obviously spray painting a synagogue was nothing
that was a a Friday night. You know those weren't sought
out things. We just did them.
It was horrible and and that's just what we did guys.
I mean it's just the truth. I got to be honest.
So you people can get the truth about what these groups are
like. You were meeting at this point,
like the higher ups because you were moving up the ranks, kind
of, yeah. We reported people in the
movement. Yeah, no, I was.
I was considered. And I don't mean to sound
egotistical because it's not about my ego today, but yeah, I
mean, I was started running TV shows now.
It's so funny. Hopefully you take this the
right way. But what was funny is I even in
the movement, I was the guy who worked in television.
Again, I don't know I'm Jewish, but I'm acting pretty Jewish.
Like I'm working in TV in our movement, right.
So like, I have this whole thing going on and like, I'm like the
promoter. I'm like, I'm just the
recruiter. I'm, I'm working in television.
I'm the one getting the shows out there, you know, so very
active in that, very active in that.
And so I'm working with some of the high UPS all around the
country. David Duke, who, you know, David
Duke was one of the guys we worked with, Tom Metzger, you
know, just your name that we were, we were doing things with
those types of people. And you know, one of the things
that you know and this is what's, you know, kind of scary
is and the truth is. Is that a lot of?
Us in that movement were told like, 'cause I happened to get a
big swastik on my neck early on. When I was about 15, I got a big
swastika tattooed on my neck. And a lot of the older guys in
the the David Duke Ish. And not David Duke didn't say
this to me personally, but his type of people were saying to
me, like, dude, don't get those type of tattoos.
We need you guys to get in the military.
We need you guys to become cops. Like come home, become cops.
You know, that's where we're going to do the real damage to
these other communities. You know, the black community,
Latino community, this is where we'll do the most damage.
So don't be getting these type of tattoos.
Keep them covered up. Keep your, you know, keep your
beliefs low. And of course I was so far on
the other end where. I was like.
No, we're foot soldiers in a race war.
No way. So anyhow guys, I wound up like
kidnapping a guy in in out in Springfield, IL, an Antifa guy
and let him go and he eventually told the cops about the
torturing and the the beating and the the kidnapping.
And so I went to prison and I was in prison and and I was 17
years old. They charged me as an adult and
I wound up going to big boy prison.
Well, I was, I was in the same prison with John Wayne Gacy.
I don't know if you guys ever studied serial killers or
anything. I mean, I was in the same prison
with that guy. That's how phrasing my life was
at 717 years old. They charged me as an adult and
I deserved it. I'm not one of these people
that's about abolishing prisons or anything.
I I deserve to be there and there's other men that deserve
to be there. I don't think our prison system
is run right and I think there's too many people in there that
don't need to be there. But anyway, that's a whole
another topic we can get into. But the truth is, I went in
there and I deserved to be in there while I was in there
because I was one of the youngest kids in a prison.
Before I got sent up to prison, I had to do time in the county
jail waiting for my trial. You know, that's how it works.
And while I was in there, I made some friends with some black
kids just because I had to wait like 5 months to get my trial,
you know, up. And I wound up taking a plea
bargain. But about five months up in the
county jail, there's a couple of black kids I was kind of cool
with, played cards with and watch TV with, played basketball
Wicks. We had a little bit.
They see they they would see your swastika that wouldn't like
kind of cause an issue over there or not really.
Yeah, you're in prison. A lot of them are part of the
Nation of Islam. A lot of them are part of black
gangs that, you know, done bad things to white people.
You know what I mean? So it's we're just kids and
they're trying to do time. You know what I mean?
They, they. And.
And if they've done any other prison time before this, you go
upstate prison, man. There's tons of Aryan gangs of
white racist gangs to them. I saw.
I was just one of those. I was just one of those gang
members. You know what I mean to them and
I you know, so. And when you're in the county
jail, man, you got to keep it cool because you're you're
coming up on trial. You know what I mean?
So you keep. You know, you might get a lot of
the times, man. You know, you always hear a lot
of people say, well, where'd you find God at?
Well, I found him in the county jail.
It's like, yeah, when you have a public defender, you need God.
So you know, everyone's being real cool.
In the county jail with each other.
And so we, you know, they were they were young kids.
I was young kids. We we played cards together.
They didn't care that swastik on my neck.
I mean there's, you know at least I was open about my
racism. You know, it's the other people
that aren't open about the racism they're worried about.
So, so now, so yeah, now I'm up in the state prison and I get
sent up state. And some of those kids from the
county jail, black kids, they wound up getting sent up state
too. And I wound up running back into
them. But while I was up in the state
prison, I'm running with my Aryan gangs.
I'm doing all the things I'm supposed to be doing.
You know, I do all my gang stuff and but when I play basketball
and football with some of the Aryan gangs, you know, these are
bikers from southern central Illinois.
Like they don't know how to dribble a basketball.
They don't. I'm not knocking them.
They can fix your transmission at two years old.
They're bikers, You know, they're Harley riders, and they
can fix your bike and your motorcycle and your car at a
young age. They don't practice dribbling a
basketball. They don't practice, you know,
prey doing a football the right way.
So I did. And so when I started playing
with those guys, they, they were horrible at sports.
Just, they just weren't. And basketball was a joke.
I mean, they would just pick up the ball and run.
They didn't dribble. And I just got tired of it, you
know? And so I've seen some of the
black kids I came up in the county jail with, who I played
basketball with in the county jail.
So they knew I was good. They knew I could dish the rock
off to anybody. I was a great passer.
I'm a little one of these little, great little white, you
know, point guards who can, you know, pass the ball between your
legs to another person. I mean, I was just one of those
guys. And so one day the black kids
asked me to play. Actually one of the first sports
I had me play was football because I was, and I was always
very, very, very well trained and good football player as a
kid growing up. So get a couple first in them,
kicks off, kick off returns, man.
And you're the only white kid on this, on the team.
And a lot on both teams and other teams, all black kids are
going to rip your head off. They're black guys.
They're going to rip your head off when they catch you.
And I'm doing a kick off return. You ain't catching me.
Like I'm that fast. You know what I mean?
I'm gone. I'm going to hit that hole.
I'm like 1. If you ever watch the NFL, I'm
like one of them little white football kick off return guys,
man, I just get that ball and I'm just gone.
And so a lot of the black kids seen, it was good.
And then they made me a wide receiver.
And then my nickname changed in the prison.
They used to call me Aryan Boy, Skinhead boy, Philly Boy,
because I had a really hard Philly accent.
I was in the Chicago prison system.
And then this all started calling me Steve for this guy
named Steve Largent. I don't know if you ever
remember, he was a little white wide receiver for the Seattle
Seahawks. And they all call me Steve all
the time. And that was just like my name.
It just stuck. Like, everyone call me Steve.
And I was like, whatever, I'm not going to correct them.
So I really didn't give a crap what you called me, you know, as
long as we're in starting trouble.
So guys, I'm in prison. I'm getting along with, again,
people like, well, didn't your Aryans care?
No. I was one of the most educated
racist they'd ever met. And I'm not joking.
And I'll give you a quick story. In prison are men that dress
like women. That's just the way they live
their life. So be it.
That's the way life is for them. I'm not judging.
But in there, then we call them the Queens.
Well, one day, this one queen was trying to talk to me.
For whatever reason, this black queen was trying to talk to me
about something, and I blew her off.
It's like, whatever, it's a man dressed like a woman, just to
give you the details of the story.
And so she walked on. Well, later on that night she
seen me again, but I was standing with all the Aryans who
were trying to introduce. Themselves to me.
Again, I'm the neo Nazi who had ATV show and kidnapped an
Antifa. I'm, I'm royalty.
I'm like considered royalty in there.
And the guys love taking care of me.
They knew that I knew all the literature.
I knew every, you know, I knew way more than any of the bikers
who just got into prison, 'cause they and, you know, and they got
in there and realized they're outnumbered and they better join
a gang. I'm guy that was on the outside
with a swastik on my neck, So they all liked me.
So when this one queen comes walking by me in front of all
these other Aryans and she's like, being rude, she's like,
hey, what's up? And she's like, waving to me.
What's up? I was looking at her, you know,
And I and I, she embarrassed me. It was embarrassing.
I mean, it just was. It was an embarrassing moment in
my life. And I'm standing in front of his
Ary and she's like, hey, what's going on?
And so you know what I mean? So it was just an embarrassing
moment. So one of the Aryans at the time
trying to show off to me, he goes, yo, Frank, how about that?
When that when the master race takes over, he's getting shot
twice, he's black and he's gay and everyone's like, yeah,
what's up, Duck? What's up?
And I was like, I turn around. I was like, Nah, man, I was
like, no, guys, if he's black and he's gay, he's not going to
be with a woman. He's not going to reproduce his
race. That's what we need.
And they were all like, yo, that's great.
That's deep, man. Oh my God.
Wow. Well, that's some deep stuff
right there. Like I was the most intelligent
racist they'd ever met. So when I went and played
football with black kids, they weren't like, oh, this guy's
changing and I didn't feel like I was changing.
I just won the competition. I really just, I was a 17 year
old kid who wanted to run, who's a very well trained and and
athletic kid. So I just wanted to run and and
and I did like showing off to the black kids, you know what I
mean? I I was good enough that I could
talk trash, get up, take hits, all that good stuff.
So. Anyhow.
I I'm getting released from prison guys and I'm kind of cool
with everybody and just them, I mean, and I'm not, not.
Being what? How long was it?
I did AI did a year, upstate the year.
So I get upstate, I do a year and I'm getting out and my
anniversary. Actually 30 years ago, a week
ago, I I got out of jail. 30 years and one week.
Ago. That's when I got.
Out. So that's how long ago this
story all happened, right? Well, what happens is I'm
getting released from prison and again, I'm.
I'm still in Neo Nazi. Is this an American instructor?
Like I change or there was a change in there like I didn't
change yet. So I get out from prison and I
go back to Philly and when I when I got from Illinois back to
Philly my crew back home is gigantic.
I started that crew. I mean literally the crew that
is going I started and and now it's gigantic.
And so when people are coming to hang out with me these are like
new guys and they're I'm like A and I'm I I I please hope that I
I'm I, know I'm it sounds egotistical but I'm just trying
to be for real. I was like a legend.
I just got home from prison for kidnapping an Antifa member, our
arch rival. Now I'm coming home and and then
I did big boy prison time. So I come home and my ego is
big. I have a big ego.
That's all I live off is my ego. At the time, of course.
And I don't know if you ever guys ever heard a saying, but
you know what ego means, right? Ego.
Ego stands for easing God out. So I had no God.
I just had all my ego. And now I'm home.
I'm trying to get this thing going.
I get back with my Neo Nazi crew and I'm hearing these new guys
come around and they're saying things like all black people are
like this, all black people are all Latino.
And I just had had enough experience in prison where I was
like cool enough with some people where I wasn't standing
up at a meeting of of of Neo Nazis and going come on guys,
not all that way. I mean, I didn't, I didn't feel,
I was just, but I felt it inside.
You know what I mean? Where I was and when they would
say these things, I just thought, man, that sounds so
stupid. And then I started thinking
about how I used to say exactly what he's saying back when I
first got in and I thought I sounded brilliant and funny and
I was like, did I sound that stupid?
Wow. So I'm starting to have this
little bit of change where I'm like, man, this is I was like,
you know what? On the I and I may I've, I'll
never forget this day. I'm taking the train up from
South Philly up to Northeast Philly and I'm on this train and
I'm on the train. I actually got talking to some
black dude for about something and I'm going to go meet up with
all my Neo Nazi friends and me and this black dude talk very
brief conversation But I remember I had a conversation
with a black dude about prisons we he gets off and he's like,
all right see you later. I shall only see you later.
And as I'm sitting on a train I'm about to get off pretty soon
I started thinking to myself I was like you know what man?
I'm not going to I'm not going to preach against black people
anymore or Latino people anymore.
Like I I I can admit that we're all equal.
Like, I got this. Like, I like, like we're kind of
all screwed here in this country in the way it's set up.
You know, that's I'm like, if you're poor, whatever, it's not,
it's not, it doesn't work good for us.
So I'm like, I'm not going to talk about them anymore, but I'm
still going to. I have to stay part of this
group. I mean, this is my everything.
This is where I get clap. This is where I get all my
criminal activity. This is where everything comes
from for me. My ego is filled here.
So I'm just going to talk against Jews.
Like, I know I have all of the literature.
I have all of everything down. I mean just so you know and and
you you you treat here to this day.
It's the craziest thing when you're talking with someone
who's anti-Semitic and then you start proving them wrong with
facts and figures and you're like blah blah blah, blah, blah,
What's the one out? Every time they won out that's a
Jewish conspiracy and that's it. Argument's over.
That's it. They're done.
And so I always had that. Well, what happened is I am
going and I'm like, I'm just going to keep on preaching
against the Jews then and not to stay part of this thing.
Well, Hashem has total different plan for me.
I just don't know what the plan is yet.
No idea. So I'm looking for work, like
regular work. I'm trying to get a job.
I just got out of prison, I got a big swastika tattooed on my
neck and I got Skinhead written on my knuckles and aggravated
kidnapping already on my record for life.
Permanent felony. These ain't good people skills,
you know what I mean? Their HR departments aren't
like, oh, swastika management. Definitely swastika.
So ridiculous. So what happens is, man, a buddy
of mine comes to me and says, hey, I can, I can get you a job
doing antique furniture in the Cherry Hill, NJ mall just for
the weekend. He just needs weekend workers.
Would you be interested in doing that?
And I was like, yeah, I don't care, you know, take 100 bucks a
day for three days. I had no other work.
Options I was like. Let's do it.
So what he did was as soon as I said I'll take the job, my buddy
goes, you know the dude. I said I'll take the job.
Yeah, he goes, well, I got to tell you, the dude owns the
company. He's a Jew.
He still wants the job. And I was just like.
Man, I need to work, man. I don't care.
I was like, I don't have to talk to this guy, do I?
And he said, Nope, you don't got to talk to him.
And I said, did you tell him about me?
He said, Yep, I told him all about you.
I said, what, what did this Jewish guy say about me?
And he said he doesn't give a rat's butt what you believe,
just don't break his furniture. And I showed up and I worked for
this man and worked for him all weekend long and very decent
man, very nice man, huge Philadelphia Flyers fan.
I'm a huge Philadelphia Flyers fan.
So whenever we had them awkward moments around each other, you
know, working, I'd say, hey, how about them draft picks?
You know what I mean Almost like how about the weather type
scenario like how about them draft picks?
Yeah good draft picks. Flyers going to do good this
year Cup this year a cup this. You know we still never won the
cup by the way Flyers never won the cup since the day I was
born. So just so you know resentment,
I like keeping everything, you know.
Anyhow, we get done and he has to pay me my money.
And you know, we all do this not be anti-Semitic, but we all do
this no matter. Unless you're so spiritual,
you'll float right off the planet.
But we all do that thing where sometimes people at work might
bother you. So you drive into work and you
plan the argument out in your head.
You know what I mean? Where you're like, you know
what? So and so is going to say this
and I'm going to say that to him.
And I know he's a stupid Dallas Cowboys fan.
You plan out a whole big argument with somebody, You know
what I mean? We do it.
We all do it. Well, I did it with this man
thinking he's not going to pay me my money.
He's going to Jew me. He's not going to give me the
$300. He's going to tell you.
I know you made $600 in tips, so here's 100 bucks here you or you
should give me money for letting you work here.
You know, like I'm running through all the scenarios in my
head. Sorry and sorry guys.
The edit. That part.
There you go. So now this, this Jewish man is
is coming up to pay me and I'm, I'm sitting there and I'm so
angry. You know, I'm just like,
thinking he's not going to pay me.
And he comes up to me and he says I owe you money.
And I'm like, yeah, you do. How much do I owe you?
You know, And I'm like, you owe me.
You owe me $300.00. He's like, Oh yeah, I trade 100
bucks a day. Here you go.
He pulls out a lot of money. Did really well with the antique
show, so he had good money. So here's 1-2, here's 300 and
he's. Like, you know what?
Here's 100. Bucks.
You're extra 100 bucks, man, you're a good worker.
So now I got to get $1000 from the 400 plus the 600 and tips
and all I thought about in my head.
Was you son of a gun? You've ruined it.
I had a fight waiting for you. I had a argument waiting for
you. I set out landmines so you would
step on these arguments to go at it, You know, because that's how
I think, man, I want resentments again, I'm not right in the
head. If you're Neo Nazi, you're not
right in the head. I mean, just so you guys know,
also throughout my whole time with my Neo Nazi, they mention
us. I'm a full blown alcoholic.
Like I've been drinking. It's come up where I came up.
It's just part of who I was, part of my family, make up,
whatever. I'm a full blown alcohol and
Alcoholics like resentments. Well what happens is he gives me
a ride back to South Philly from from Cherry Hill, NJ and when he
gives me a ride back he says, hey, what do you do for a
living? I told him I don't do anything.
I have a swastika on my neck. I don't do anything.
And he said, well why don't you come work for me?
And I went and I worked for this man for about 6 months and he
was just one of the most kindest, nicest men to be in my
life. He said good things about me.
He I would say things like like a lot of kids that are messed up
like me, I would mess up or break something.
My first thing is, man, I'm so stupid.
I'm so stupid. And he one day gripped me up.
I broke something and he and I said, man, I'm so stupid.
Keith, I'm so sorry. And keep being this little
stocky Jewish dude, you know? And you say, hey, what do you,
what do you do with my brother? Why do you do that just like
that total up E Upper East Coast guy and he come over, man.
He grabbed me by the back of my neck and he said stop saying
you're stupid, you idiot. Clean it up and let's go.
And so I clean up my mess the one day and I'm driving in the
truck. We're coming from from upstate
New Jersey, you know, down the Turnpike, down the Jersey
Turnpike, then back in the Philly.
And man, he's just. Unloading on me.
He's like, I hate when you say you're stupid.
He's like I. I you're one of the smartest
guys I know. Why would you say you're stupid
and we're going back and forth And he's like, you remember when
you figured this out? And you remember when I was
telling you and I had this problem and you were like, well,
why don't you try this? Like, that's brilliant, Good
street, smart stuff, Frank. He's like, people can't pay for
the knowledge you got in your head.
Stop saying you're stupid. And as we're driving, he says,
And here's the other thing. And then and this is the life
lesson that that man taught me that I know to this day, which
keeps me moving in the the way that I move, the way that I
work, he said, Frank, smart people can fake being dumb, but
dumb people can't fake being smart.
You're just smart. Get over it.
And I just looked at this man and I'm now I'm shade, bald Leo,
Nazi boots on, swastika blazing at this guy.
And I'm just like, thank you for this man in my life.
My God. Like, thank you.
I should, you know, thank you. Like, wow, this is.
You know, he was just such a good.
Man to me, and he always said good things or he joked with the
right times. He never put me down.
And so he let me out. He drove me back in Philly.
He dropped me off. I walked back to my mom's house,
man, and as I was walking back to my mom's.
House I was just like. I ain't done.
I ain't done like I'm I'm, I'm beating my head against.
The wall now to believe this stuff.
And what I got tired of and this is so much of what you see in.
America, right now, this is so much what you.
See. And it's it's in every community
where you hear people say I hate all black people and and I can
substitute whatever words you want.
I hate all of those people except for the ones I know from
work and the ones that I'm cool with and the ones I went to
school with and the ones I talked with and the ones I'm
friends with on social media. They're good, they're OK.
But all the rest of them, you know, just to give it a a
strong, you know, I hate all black people except for Jamal
and Craig and Michael's. Michael's great, guy, man.
He works just like. Me, he's kids my age, man.
We're good peoples, but all the rest of them, they're all, you
know, that way. I hate all that, you know
people. They're all this way except for
Juan. Juan's like who?
And John. John's a great guy.
Oh, and and Carlos me and Carlos me.
You know, me and him like we spend time together.
His kids are the same age as my. You're a great guy, but all the
rest of them are this way. It's so stupid.
And that's the way I thought. And here for one more time,
God's putting someone in my life.
To be like. Who?
Are you the judge? Are you out of your mind like
you're I'm the worst dude I'm. Kidnapping people.
I'm selling stolen guns all around the country, promoting
hate. And now I'm gonna judge.
I'm judging people now. So anyhow, you're.
Curious about a friend who set you up with this Jewish guy?
Like like, is that something that happens?
Oh, I have a Jewish guy who I know, you know, you should work
for him. Like it seems like kind of goes
against what they believe he Was he as invested in the Nazi
movement as as you were, or was it just like a good?
Question. Yeah.
No, no, my friend was yeah, he was here.
Here's the other thing. Keith had hired other Neo Nazis
before. There were so many in our area
that he had hired other ones before like he just did.
He was like, I don't care. I don't care what you believe,
just don't break my friend. Just show up on time and be who
come to work. So Mike, the guy who offered me
the job for Keith? The one who offered me the job
was also a Neo Nazi at one time. So he just Keith.
Keith was Keith. His name's Keith Brookstein.
He's just this amazing guy who's like whatever, you know you, you
do you in the world. I'm just gonna keep doing me so.
And do you think he had an effect on those other people as
well, Keith? I think so.
I mean, I would hope so. I mean, I know that.
I know for a fact that they all. Enjoyed and liked Keith.
They would make fun of Keith a little bit 'cause he was a kind
of a high strung. I, my God, God, what are you
doing? You know that.
So they would make fun of that sometimes, you know?
But I know that he always treated them with love and
respect and always paid them on time and he never jewed anybody.
He always, you know, in fact, he would, you know, if you needed
extra money, he'd give you extra money.
You know, he was a good dude. So what's that?
You know, it's actually a commandment that you have to pay
the wages on time in the Torah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know that
now. Yeah, and it's it's it's just to
see how that interplay worked is just incredible in a way.
Yeah, and Keith wasn't religious at all.
Keith was not his. His father was very religious
and he came from a religious. Background and was not religious
at all. I mean he believed in God, but.
He didn't have any, you know. He didn't have any.
He didn't, you know, go to club. He didn't do anything.
He he just was him. He was just him.
But. But it's in the it's in the DNA
to do the right thing. I believe it's in the DNA as I
come to find out later on. So guys, look, I got out like I
just got out. People say how I just got out.
I stopped going around them. I stopped doing what they were
doing. I stopped doing all that stuff.
So I get out. And then the Oklahoma City
bombing happens. I'm so sorry to interrupt.
No, Greg. Was getting out a hard thing to
do? Like was there any threats?
Or, like you know, is it that simple to just get out?
No. Oh, no.
I lost all my friends. I lost every friend I had, every
support group, everything I had gone.
And there was people that were like, yeah, we find Frank, we're
gonna kill him. If we find Frank, we're.
Gonna do this to him. And they did.
They got they. Found me at a see I'm not one of
these type of people that are like hey.
Come get jumped out of the gang. Get out.
Got kidding me? You better catch me.
I ain't. I ain't walking to get my butt
beat from nobody. You know what I mean?
It wasn't going to fight back. But they jumped me at a funeral
one time, so yeah, I mean, there was.
Yeah, there was. And I mean, there's still
threats on my life to this day, which is crazy, you know what I
mean? I'm.
I'm still threats on my life to this day.
But whatever. I don't, you know, destroy the
plans of those who seek to do me harm.
They really defeat their aims and their purpose, You know what
I mean? I don't.
I don't worry about it at all.
So guys, that was in 1994. I got out.
That's how long ago, 1994. And I went to the Oklahoma City
after the Oklahoma City bombing, man.
I went to the FBI and I said, hey, here's my story, here's who
I am. And I told him, told the FBI
everything. Just told him everything.
And I didn't put no one in prison.
No one went to jail for anything I said.
I just told him everything about me.
And then they I went to the the ADL, the Anti Defamation League,
and they had me speak around some schools and with some
people. And I felt really good.
I felt like I was. Getting in my karma, I got a
karma score. You know I and now again I don't
know anything about my DNA breakdown and you know it was
just DNA was just kind of coming around with the OJ Simpson trial
that we even know of, but learning what your DNA was or
something in foreign. But anyhow, I just.
I felt like I had a. A really bad karma score and I
was going to try and replay. That score up.
And so by doing good, I was. Getting a good karma score and I
was, so I just. Did a lot of stuff.
I started like speaking and helping out, and I started doing
like interventions on neo Nazis, and I started a hockey program
where I got more black kids to play the game of hockey.
You know, that's. You know it's not.
Arguably, it is the greatest. Game on earth, and I got to
teach it to black kids. You know the this amazing game.
And so I started doing that and went on to go do it in Iowa.
For a long time. We still drink.
We still. Yeah.
I'm, I'm, I'm Yep, great a question.
I I'm by the 19861987198780. I'm sorry 19971998.
I start trying to get sober. I start, you know, having some,
you know, going in and out of the program, going in and out
of. Rehabs doing all those.
Type of things. So I'm around this sobriety
thing, but I'm not getting it. Like I I didn't get it yet.
Really struggled a lot with it, and I moved to Iowa trying to
stay sober there, get a job working in political talk radio.
Then I get a job in professional hockey again, Start working for
all these professional hockey teams that got maybe three or
four years sober. Did good, you know, build the
career. Then I relapsed again, Burned it
all down in front of everybody. Start a new civil rights
organization. Get two or three years relapse,
Burn it all down again in front of everybody.
Kept doing it, kept doing it. And what happened was, and
that's perfect. Read up is. 19 2014 You know,
I've had some rough years of my life.
I grew up being from being abused as a step kid, being
maximum security prisons. But I'll tell you 2014 started
the worst five years of my whole life.
My oldest son dies in a car accident.
Just a simple single car, you know.
No drugs, no alcohol, just lost control of his car.
Then my mom dies of a fentanyl overdose in 2016.
The best man in my wedding because I've been married now.
I got married and was my wife was married and I had kids and
living in Iowa with my best man in my wedding, who was my cousin
who was like my brother, He kills himself.
I mean, like we were tight. And then his older brother, who
was also like my older brother, he kills himself.
Then I had a colleague of one of the civil rights organization I
work at stole a bunch of my intellectual properties and went
and sold that. He did the work I did for.
I did the work for 15 years. This guy just started doing the
work and then went to a a production.
Company and ATV. Network and said, oh I've been
the guy doing all these interventions on the
interventions on neo Nazis which and he sold it and it looked
like he really was the one. It was just and there was other.
Then I got a divorce and then I broken no contact orders, you
know again. Now I now I'm back to drinking
and using again because I'm in this really dark, dark place and
by this time I find that I'm Jewish.
I found that I was Jewish from a habad rabbi.
Well, he was the first one to really bring it to my attention
in Des Moines, IA in 2014, right around the time that all this
stuff's going on. Before it started, he I was
doing a documentary with him about religion in Iowa, and he
was like, hey, you know, you're Jewish.
You should go check. It out.
And and because of my last name, which actually my last name it
Mink isn't my mom's maiden name. But it actually isn't Jewish.
It's but it makes me look deeper and I put something out on
social media. I took some of my family members
and my uncle who years ago when I first was becoming a Neo Nazi,
he's one of these really uncles that kind of just.
I never really got along with him kind of his uncle that
always just busted everyone's chops, you know he.
Just. Always from what I always
remember as a kid, he was always thought he was better than
everyone else or whatever. Just just giving you the example
of why I didn't believe when he came to me when I first became a
Neo Nazi, he goes, you know, we have Jewish in US and I just
really thought he was just lying to me just so I wouldn't be in
the like he would just say anything just to bust my chop.
So I was like whatever. So I knew he couldn't say I was
black, you know what I mean? So he'd just say, oh, we know
we're Jewish. And I was like, whatever,
whatever, whatever. So, so I find.
So I put out on social media after this rabbi comes to me and
says, yeah, you know, you're Jewish.
My uncle, that same uncle and a couple other aunts all chime in
on social media. And they're like, yeah, Frank,
like, you know, Grandma's grandma's mom's, mom's mom was.
100% Jewish. And she married this Irishman
in, like, you know, 1890 or something something like that.
And so they all started. Chiming in like, yeah, we're
all, we're all part Jewish. OK, I'm going to look into this.
And to tell you a crazy story was also in that time in about
2013, right when I was making the first I was making ATV show
in 2011 about doing interventions on Neo Nazis that
was going to be aired on AMC, the network.
And I was living in LA for a brief moment for three months
making this television show. And I used to.
I was in recovery and I was struggling in recovery, but I
was going to recovery. I was going to gatherings that
we're supposed to go to. And while I was at a gathering
of recovering people, this man came up to me and a little
Jewish guy came up to me at this meeting spot and he came up to
me and said. Huh.
A fellow heave at a meeting and I looked at him.
Because I knew this one guy that I was talking to and it doesn't
matter. This guy comes over to me and
says, huh, I felt he but a meeting.
And I was like, I'm not Jewish. I'm actually a former Neo Nazi.
I'm making a television show. I'm all arrogant.
I'm like, I'm making a television show right now on
doing interventions on neo Nazis.
I'm not even not. Jewish.
And he's like, well, you look like.
He to me and he just walked away.
And that man I'd stayed in touch with throughout the years, just
off and on. Just he lived in LA and when I
moved back to Iowa after my TV show got cancelled.
I just randomly would call this man.
Once a year. Hey, what's up?
You know what's up man? What's going on?
You know, whatever. So guys, I'm telling you that
the worst five years of my life is going on.
Me and my wife are getting a divorce.
Just my life and everything is burnt.
I was a hockey coach who had won twelve national championships.
I lost my hockey coaching career due to my divorce due to my my
using due to all my own. Actions not.
So guys, I was in that time. I found out I was Jewish like I
said. So now I'm trying to figure this
thing out. And in the midst of that, I met
this one Jewish girl in all of Des Moines, IA.
There's not many, but I met the one, and me and her started
dating during my divorce. And while I was dating her, I
was leaving her house and I was in the middle.
Of a relapse at the time, and I left their house to go back to
the house I was. Living at I couldn't go back to
my house where my wife and children were because we were in
the middle of a divorce and my life was spiraling out of
control. So as I was driving, this lump
came in my throat, like I couldn't breathe, You know, I I
wanted to scream and I wanted to cry and I just was so lost, so
and I just, and I'm driving and I and I just was like, and I I I
just wanted to cry so bad and my eyes were welling up and I
couldn't see the road because of my.
I was just about to cry again. So I just wanted to cry this
thing out of me. And I pulled over to the side of
the road, 'cause there was no way of me driving anymore.
And I just sat on the side of the road and I started screaming
up at God. I was like, please kill me.
Please. Put me out of my misery.
I can't take this anymore. Like, I can't take any of this
pain. I, you know, it's all I'm just
lost. And I'm screaming, please kill
me because I don't want to kill myself because my cousins all
just killed themselves. And I seen the devastation that
it does to people. I know that when you kill
someone, when you kill yourself, you don't take that pain with
you. You just pass it back down to
your children, you know? And I'm like, I don't want to do
that. And I was like, please, God, let
a Mack truck hit me. These are my exact words.
Please, God, let a Mack truck hit me or let a telephone call
fall on me. Please just Take Me Out of my
misery. I get it.
Why my cousins killed themselves.
If this is the pain they felt, I get it.
And as I'm screaming up at him, please kill me, my phone rings
and it's that girl that I've been dating.
And I pick up the phone in the midst of me screaming and crying
up to God. And I was like.
What? What do you want?
And she's screaming, crying on her phone and she's like, get
back to my house right now. Get back to my house.
And I was like, why? Why?
And she said, my, I just found out my sister just killed
herself. I need you here with me right
now. And I yeah.
And I just hung up the phone and and this is my story.
I don't, this is my story. This is just like it's my God,
you know, when I hung up the phone.
This little voice that just. Came to me inside the car and
said get to California. I have worked for you.
And I just remember I can picture this.
I think about this moment 20 times a day, sometimes 100 times
a day. I think about this moment
because it happened and I just looked at my dashboard where the
voice didn't come from. The the voice just came to me
and it was not in my own voice. That was the one thing.
It was the most weirdest thing. It wasn't my own voice.
It was something else that said it to me and I just said, OK,
I'll listen. And with that voice I'd get to
California. Made called that man who called
me a hebe because me and him had stayed in touch throughout the
years and he's this magical. I don't want to talk him up too
much, but he's a magical man who knows how to wrestle people's
egos out of them with love and walk them closer to God.
And he's very good at doing it and he and he does it.
You know he's he was born and raised Orthodox.
I don't want to tell too much of his story.
He was born and raised Orthodox but now he teaches men how to
find God through the program of recovery.
And he's and he he works with a lot of big people.
Whatever. And so like I said and he I had
talked to him throughout the years where he used to say,
Frank, I can help you. He's like you're insane.
But you have some gifts and I can help you.
But you know you have to be willing to really want to be
helped. And what you need for that
program to work in your life is you need God gift of desperation
that I knew I couldn't live another day with the way I was
living and the way I think. And so I called that man and
said, hey, after I heard that voice, after I got done helping
that girl with her sister's death, I was of service to her.
And then we kind of just broke up and went our separate ways in
a kind, gentler way. We I said, hey, I got to go to
California. I got to go work with this man
because I I can't do this thing. And I've been with that man now.
And now that when I stay with him, I just mean he's my
spiritual guide. He's my rabbi in recovery.
He's not a, say, rabbi. He's, you know, was born and
raised Orthodox, but he teaches men how to get this thing
through recovery and I still work with, I talked to him every
morning, said his day, it's been 4 1/2 years and in that time the
government and other people have come to me and now my life is in
shambles and now the government and everyone's coming to me
going. Hey, we heard you know about a
lot of neo Nazi cops and I said yeah.
And they said, will you come testify in front of the United
States Congress for us then when you testify to the names?
And you know when you tell the. Truth.
And I said absolutely. And so that happened about three
years ago, 3 1/2, No, almost four years ago.
And I went and I testified and my life has changed dramatically
from from that moment. And anyway I very active now.
I got and when I came here I got not just in recovery.
I got very active in Judaism in my Judaism and and and you know
became part of the temple go to tour studies three times a week.
You know keep a Shabbat in my life.
Stay kosher. Do the 100 blessings a day which
is one of my favorite things to do is 100 blessings a day.
Pray three times a day. And my activism and what I'm
what I believe my my God wants me to do is to.
He doesn't. He's not my servitude.
Says tells me that he's not very happy with mass incarceration.
He's not very happy with. And the imprisonment of the poor
that we do. And a lot of it goes back to
policing and traffic stops and pulling people out of cars for
every little thing. And then God's like, I'm going
to give you the. I'm going to give you some of
the answers and you're going to go out and you're going to talk
about it. And that's what I've been doing
for the last four years because, you know, when I read Proverbs,
and that's one of the great things I love about being Jewish
now, is that I don't go around and try to browbeat people with
the proverbs. I just try to live them to the
best of my ability and I try to educate myself on the situations
God wants me to go out and be of service to him for and just do
my best. And so that's that's where I am
today doing that work. So I'm curious to know about
that that voice that you heard in your head or whatever it was.
Do you Is that voice something that, like you're you kind of
used as an inspiration? Like when you pray, do you feel
like you want you're kind of trying to get that voice back?
Are you? Is that is that something that,
you know, obviously really impacted you, but did that your
whole outlook on prayer? Because you were praying, you
were shouting and crying out to God and then something happened
miraculously, almost. And now, as a Jew, as a
practicing Jew, do you feel like when you pray, like there's
there's actually something on the other side that's listening?
I, I, and I just had a yes, yes, I When people talk about God, if
Hashem is real, any of that, I I always go 1,000,000%.
I know he's real. I know he's real.
And because of that moment and because not even just because of
that exact moment, but because of me listening to the voice of
going to the man that was envisioned in my head to go to
that man, he's going to help you.
And the way that he has taught me to find and to practice and
to believe and not only that is to rely on to rely on him.
And so. So because of that moment, it
lets me know that it's real. Yes.
So you're right. It's just something is on the
other side. I love prayer meditation now.
I mean, I look for so every morning just.
You know you do you I do me. That's one thing that says love
the Lord your God, my God. I get to do what I want I every
morning, since I live out here on the West Coast now is I get.
I take an hour and a half walk every morning and I call it my
my God walk is what I call it. But.
In that walk what I do is. I I get to keep saying the word
stay, stay like, 'cause I, you know, when you're in an hour and
a half long God walk or a walk period, your mind starts to go,
oh, why didn't so and so text me back yesterday?
Go. They're all about myself.
Well, the voice that I have inside of me gets to go stay,
STAY, stop thinking about yourself and just think about
others. Think about all the people that
I I help in, in the program, in the, you know, I'm very, very
active in my recovery. Like I help a bunch of other men
find their way through recovery. So that doesn't have to be, you
know, so they're not Jewish or and some are.
Some, you know, 11 is now with all my other guys.
They're not. But I walk them just as I would
walk anyone else to a relationship with God by using
the, the tenants that are in this recovering lifestyle.
Again, you have to be anonymous about this stuff.
So I can't discover, hey, I'm part of this one group, you
know, that's very, very important that we don't do that.
So that's why I have to tread on this tradition very lightly.
But most people that know about the program will know this guy's
in recovery. So the reason why to say that
is, you know, that's a huge part of my, my, also my.
Service is to help other men get out of that life of hell.
And it is a life of hell by by working the the program.
So it's. A question.
Do you go by also a Hebrew name now?
Not yet. Not yet.
I'm. I want to.
I'm. One of the things that I've come
to to every every Shabbat. I usually do a lot with King.
I love King David, love King David.
Like that's my that's my guy. I just love my favorite my.
Favorite. I think he's everyone.
'S favorite character. Really is just, yeah, yeah, he
is he 'cause he's he's the the perfect.
Example of a human being who if you do the right to me, what it
says to me and I again, I don't ever preach I don't preach I.
Love. That's one of the greatest
things to do about us. We don't get.
I don't got to preach for my I know I have a personal
relationship and where I get my strength from.
But when I look at where, you know, when you when we do stuff
for ourselves, it's not so. I don't say God's against it.
It's just not blessed as much as when you're doing it for the
people. You're doing it for your tribe
or you're doing it for to make others, you know, be able to be
healthy and better. That's when it works better.
And it I see that a lot in in King David's life, you know, And
so I try to stick to that. And you know, and there's one
question I ask every rabbi I come across all the time, I
always go, why do you think no matter what?
Why did he grab 5 stones when he wants?
To go. Five.
Shoot. Sorry guys.
One of my biggest questions I always ask people is why did he
grab 5 stones when he should have just grabbed one?
He only needed one, you know, and he's loved those type of
deep thought thinking for me it's a very deep thinking thing
is. But the last thing I will say,
guys, or not the last thing, but what's very important to me here
is, Oh my. God.
Sorry, somebody keeps calling in.
Sorry about that. We don't.
We don't hear. You can keep going.
OK. Is that in America?
The truth is that in 50 years we're going to be 11.
Tribe is molding here. It's in 50 years.
Like that mixed race American. Is going to be something that is
going to be so prevalent and then 300 years.
Almost almost all of us are gonna be the same color.
Like that's just the truth. And then we're gonna be that
tribe for thousands of years, thousands of years from now,
we're gonna be all one color here.
So when we look back on things like mass incarceration, when we
look back on things where a certain community keeps saying,
yo, we're being abused by this one certain situation and
they're telling us we're being abused, you know, we're gonna
look back and go, oh, we should have listened, you know, And I
know that right now it's really hard for us to say those people
or these people are right because some right now, some
people are really turning their backs on us.
And I get it, man. I get it.
But the truth is, if you could go back to Martin Luther King,
you go back to Malcolm X, you go back to James Baldwin.
You go back. To all these Great American
black leaders, they've all talked about police brutality.
All of them. And we have mass incarceration
on a scale that never has been seen before, and it's mostly off
of them. So what are we gonna do when
this tribe starts to more and more come together?
We're gonna look back on these times, just like when we look
back on cops singing dogs and shooting fire hoses and killing
them and we all look back now and go, oh why?
Didn't we see it? What?
But what is wrong with us? We're gonna do the same thing 20
years from now, 30 years from now.
We're gonna go. Oh yeah.
They used to just pull people over for any reason just so they
could rip them out of their car and structure cars.
That's insane. And we have mass incarceration
because we didn't stick to the Bill of Rights.
One of the great things about this country isn't the people.
Like we got to be real people don't come here because
Americans are great people. They they don't.
It's the truth. We have some.
Serious problems and issues. They come here because we have
an amazing Bill of Rights and the Bill of Rights isn't really
given to everybody. It's just not.
The 4th Amendment isn't respected on black people, or
people of color or poor whites. It's not Cops don't care.
Don't rip them out of their cars in front of their children.
Search them. And it's something that should
not be happening in this country.
Where we're supposed to? How prevalent is this?
You you you mentioned that you spoke to the FBI.
Like. And you spoke in Washington?
What? How how prevalent is this
problem with though? Like they're infiltrating, you
know, our different bodies of government and so on and
policing. Like how?
How bad do you think it is? It's not that.
There's like hard carrying neo Nazis anymore.
It's not that. It is that they're a lot of
their unions and their membership is very, and I I'm
not, I'm for conservatives. I'm for.
People that are conservatives I'm talking about.
Far right extremists are a lot in our policing.
A lot. It's it's part of the police
bubble. Just go look at their unions, Go
look at their a lot of what their unions do and say it's
it's it really is as bad as people have been saying it is.
So it's not just these white supremacists.
It's. Proud.
Boys, there's tons of Proud Boys that are police.
There's tons of Oath Keepers. These are all far right wing
extremist groups and they're become cops.
And there's a hundreds of them and like districts and and all
different places and so you know and and we're not asking and I I
the people that I work with the activists that I work with we're
not screaming defund we're not I'm not for defunding the.
Police at all like. Fund homicide divisions.
Fund them. Rape divisions.
Fund those special units. Fund them.
But stop funding these little tricks of of.
You know traffic stops and pulling people out of cars for
every little thing. And it's it's not it's not what
Imagine Ben Franklin, one of my my heroes, one of my biggest
heroes in this. If you imagine if he would have
came back right now and says hey how's this country how's that
freedom and liberty we left you. Oh well you know we have 34% of
the world's women's prison. Pop you.
I will say this again. We have 34% of the world's
women's prison population in a country that only has 5% of the
population of the world. Oh, our freedom of liberty isn't
what we thought it was. Like our founding fathers.
We horrified that we have mass incarceration on the scale we
have. And just for people that are
listening to this think, oh, this is some woke liberalism,
this we're not talking about upstate prisons anymore.
We're talking about the growth of the American county jails.
And that's where they hold again.
And I'm not at prison abolishness.
I don't. I, I there's people that do
belong in there. But I'm telling you that we're
we're going down the wrong track when they get to do civil
forfeitures to people. Like there's a lot.
There's a bunch of real real, real concrete police reforms
that we can do to stop what's happening to this country.
So and and that's my job. That's my job today.
That's the work that God said, hey I'm gonna give you, give the
work you're you're, I'm gonna give you the knowledge.
I'm gonna give you the information and you're gonna go
relay it to people and that's what I do.
Well, God bless you for everything you do.
I I personally, I always like years ago when you hear things
about neo Nazis in America, you know, we we don't really
experience it because also you know it's like right wing
extremism is not something that is culturally accepted.
For example an antifa member he's gonna get a pat on the
back. You know by by by the culture
because it's you know it's there's a lot of liberals in
this country and and we we we promote certain ideas but with
right wing extremism you don't really they they don't they're
kind of underground. So there's feeling there's
always this feeling like OK, but it's exaggerated it's not really
there And now ever since especially now since after
October 7th, you're starting to see like the Country Club anti
Semites with their bow tie coming on on the news.
You're like, oh, I thought they were on our side.
And. And and it's it's actually like
the liberals, a lot of them who are behind us.
And it's not I'm not saying, you know, I I don't have the
statistics but it feels you've been duped.
You know, like so, so for me, now that you're talking about
all this right wing anti-Semitism, you know, do you,
do you feel like we're heading in the right direction with that
or do you feel like we're just spiraling?
No. And I I don't like being
alarmist, but you know, you know, obviously far right wing
extremism in any shape or form, no matter where it comes from.
I'm not for it. But what I've watched because
now for the last 30 years I've been very active in the anti
extremist work. I mean I've been all over the
world. I've worked with different
organizations. I worked with former Jihadist, I
worked with former Mujaha Hamadid, I worked with tons of
these people for the last 30 years.
That's what I mean. For some reason Hashem has kept
me relevant in that world that when I finally had the spiritual
change and I've had the spiritual awakening to truly
doing this for other people. I'll tell you this when I've
watched now so many Americans and it's on both sides that are
blinded to the fact that they are standing behind and Iran
backed jihadist movement who like we're losing the marketing
game here and it's it's it's crazy that again we're standing
behind a group that is backed by Iran who literally call for the
extermination you know and the the genocide of us from the
river to the sea and it's and then they call around and say
that we're doing genocide like we're how how we're losing that
marketing war is is crazy but we are you know it.
Debunks it. Debunks this whole idea that
Jews run the media and all that. Because if we did, we're we're
terrible at it, right 'cause? We're terrible at run.
And let's let's be honest, before October 7th, even then we
were not good at even running Israel.
We were always, you know what I mean?
Like we're always arguing and protesting and you know.
Like. And and it just is what it is.
It's not I'm not judging anybody here.
Like we can't even run Israel, right?
Let alone run the world. And I'll tell you that one of
the other thing is when I was part of the Neo Nazi world and I
still hear to this day from some of the groups where I always go,
Oh yeah, it's 10 old Jewish men get together and they in a cabal
and they can roll the world. I'm like now that I know the
truth because I go to temple and I've been very active in my
community. You get 10 old Jewish men
together. That's thirty different opinions
on everything we're about to talk about.
What do you, You know what I mean?
Like, we can't even choose where we're going to go to lunch, let
alone where we're going to, you know, go run the world.
Are you out of your mind? Like, that's just real.
That's just facts. And they're just beautiful
children of God, you know? So.
What do you think from your unique perspective as somebody
who wasn't, you know, practicing Judaism and was anti Jewish?
From your point of view, where do you see like the root of
anti-Semitism in this country? Where does it come from?
Is it jealousy? Is it ignorance?
Combination. Yeah, it's good.
It's, it's it's both. Oh OK.
I'm about to my phone's about to go here but so sorry it it's a
little bit of both. We are and I'm so proud to say
we just so you know I'm so proud to say we we are a successful
minority who has throughout time been the activist for others and
we can go down the whole list of the whole civil rights movement
in 196364 was because two Jewish men and a black man were killed
in Mississippi and that's what catapulted the civil rights bill
into effect today or this weekend is is Saint Patrick's
Day where they eat corned beef and cabbage which they didn't
really eat that they ate bacon and cabbage when they could.
The Irish I'm talking about until they got close to us in
America and the Jew, Jewish butchers and bakery shops.
And then we started to supply them with a very, very cheap
meal to keep them alive. If the Irish were starving to
death. And that's corned beef.
And now they, it's it's an Irish tradition because we fed it to
them. We fed that to them.
And I think that's how my ancestors even met that, which
is a great story in itself. You know, everywhere we go, we
stand up for the others. When other people hated them,
like people hated the Irish, we stood up with them, people hated
the blacks, we stood up with them.
So we've always been the success and we've always been successful
because of the way we're basically trained to be.
And what I mean by trained to be is I've come to realize the
truth is that it's not that we're just the conspiracy, that
we're the high UPS in a lot of companies and in science and in
technology and you name it, you name it, we're high UPS in those
organizations. It's not a conspiracy, it's just
that we have a heritage of learning that we live.
Proverbs. You know what I mean?
We just, for 3000 years now, we've been studying and learning
'cause we're always on the move and we had to study and learn
when other cultures were stuck and stagnated.
It's just the truth. And so now we're really good at
that. And so wherever we go, we make
better. But until the people turn their
backs on us. And so, you know, it's funny, I
have. AI have a Hebrew name for you
that you want to maybe consider. Go ahead.
Natan, it means to give Natan. Think about that one.
Now think about it. And actually, connection.
He's the prophet who tells King David that you know the whole
story about how he's sin and he admits his, his, his, his wrong
ways, right. So actually that's a very good
name for for him, not. Talking to him, well, that's the
that's the the the farmer who stole the one who stole the the
one and loved that story and loved that.
Story. Amazing story.
Well, Frank, I know you said your phone's gonna die, but this
was really like a girl. Inspiration.
And we we hope to stay in touch and we really are.
So we're just blown away by your your life story and where you
are today. And we really wish you all the
best and your your inspiration. You really are.
We we feel like you're an Angel. So for us, you know, to be just
having the honor to speak to you and to spread your message, it's
just like it's an amazing opportunity for us.
So thank you so much. Thank you.
Thank you for having me. It's an honor.
Thank you. It's an honor for us, Shavuotov.
Shavuotov Bye guys. Hey guys, thanks so much for
tuning into the Judas and Demystified podcast.
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