Welcome to Judaism Demystified, a podcast for the perplexed.
Join us as we explore some of the most fascinating Jewish and
Torah related topics with our esteemed guests.
By tackling some of the biggest questions you likely won't find
addressed elsewhere, we aim to shed light on important issues
and inspire a return to the fundamentals.
Enjoy the show. Thank you for joining the
Judaism Demystified podcast. We are joined by Ramosha
Lichtman. Thank you so much for joining.
Welcome. Thank you for having me.
And before we begin, we usually ask our guests if you could just
tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got to
translating the book we're going to be discussing today.
OK, in a nutshell, I was born and bred in Elizabeth, NJ Went
to the JC. That's the, you know, local
yeshiva there. And I would say a typical modern
Orthodox kid, basketball was my life in high school, you know,
that kind of thing, you know, and then I went for my year in
Israel and that's where my life changed.
Like, like I would say most kids today, their lives change when
they come to the year in Israel. Mind changed in an interesting
way. I did get a little bit into the
learning, but it was more that I got into Eretz Israel.
I literally fell in love with Israel from, I wouldn't say from
the very beginning, but at a certain point in the year I, I
said, this is it. This is where I'm living and
that changed my whole trajectory of life.
This is my goal. My goal is to get back to
Israel. And it, you know, it, it, it is
why I went into hinoch as opposed to I was going to be a
doctor and then a dentist. I decided to go into Hino, stay
in Israel. You know, to make a Long story
short, I was back in America for a little bit.
I finished college and I did college NYU and and then I spent
four years learning in Israel in different, different Shivot and
had to go back to America and find my wife Bharat Hashem found
her right away. We were back within two years,
we were back in Israel. And really, I guess my, my
career as a translator slash writer started there, started
in, when, when we came back and officially made aliyah, which
now is 35 years ago. I, I, I learned in a Colo called
the merits Colo and Mevaceretzione.
I mean, that's where also there's a, there's an American
yeshiva there called Yeshiva Shari Nevaceretzione.
And I worked there for a few years.
It's interesting. We're getting, we're coming up
to shovel out, right? So I remember the shovel out
before we made aliyah, you know, and shovel out night.
It's hard to keep it, to stay awake.
You have to find something that's interesting, that's
exciting. So I remember my year in Israel.
You know, there's this thing in Israel, it's book week in June,
June time around. Now there's a book week where
they set up a book stands all over the country.
And then all the bookstores have discounts.
And I remember going and I was told someone pointed to a book,
a blue and white book called Emma Banim Smeha.
And I was told, I was told you gotta get, you gotta buy that
book. You know, I'm a Zionist, so you
have to buy that book. Funny thing is, I also bought
another book there, which I also ended up translating one day.
So at some point over the years before this, I tried to read
Emma Banim Smeha and it was, it did not go well.
It was hard because I started with the introduction, not his
introduction, the publishers introduction, which is not easy.
It's very Israeli Hebrew. So I had a hard time with it.
I put it down and then this shovel world comes and I say,
you know what, I got to learn something.
I want something exciting. Let me start, Let me try the
book again. And I said this time I'm going
to skip the introduction, go straight to the book.
And then that was life changing. I mean, if you've ever learned
everybody, I mean, usually I get interviewed about that book.
It is the one of the most powerful books ever written.
The whole story about this Gullah B Israel who was anti
Zionistic and he changed his mind during the Holocaust.
Without going into too much detail.
So I get I get to Israel and I finished the book while cause
not just a few months later we made aliyah and I finished the
book when I was in Israel. And I noticed in the
introduction that it thanked A Rav Uri Cohen.
And my Roche Kolel in the Vassar was of Uri Cohen.
Does this have anything to do with you?
He said, yeah, my son is the publisher.
So I go to his son, who lives across the street, and I say
this book has to be translated into English.
He says, yeah, I know Bharu Hashem, we have somebody.
It's already been translated. We're just, we're just editing
it. I have a few guys working on the
editing. And then I, I said to him, you
know what, if you don't mind, I'll just take a look at it.
I'm, I had no intention of being a translator.
I just wanted to see it. I wanted, I was so excited that
it's going to be in English. He showed it to me and it was
worse than awful. It was such a bad translation.
I said to him immediately, stop. I said I've never done this
before, but I will try my best to edit the existing translation
after one chapter. After one chapter, I realized
that I have to start from scratch and that really started
my whole translating career. I came up with that book.
I worked on it for about 3 years and came out with it.
I then did a book on Ruff Cook's life.
It's called Malachin Kivna Adam in English, it's called An Angel
among Men, the beautiful, beautiful biography.
I'm Ruff Cook with beautiful stories and also his philosophy.
And then we're getting to our book, right, A Question of
redemption. Then the next book on my list to
do was a book called Ayalata Shakar by Raviako Philber.
I don't know if you're familiar with that book.
So it's a classic, classic, classic and religious Zionist
philosophy. Ayalata Shakar, he's a student
of Ruf kuk, Ruf Tuihuda. He's one of the greatest experts
in Ruf Kuk, the father's writings and it's really a
beautiful safer goes through the various different topics related
to the whole religious Zionist issue.
And I even contacted the author and said I want to translate.
He said great. And then in the big Midrash
shows up a book. That's the way they sell books a
lot. A lot of authors, you know, who
don't have publishers and don't have the money to to really
invest. They they publish it self
publish, get somebody to bring it to all the different Yoshi
vote and they distribute it that way.
You pay 20 shackle for the book, a few a few dollars and then you
get a book. So there was a book called
Hamadi nahi Udith. Actually, you probably never saw
it in Hebrew. This is the this is the original
Hebrew one, Hamadi nahi udit. OK, you know that that's the
name of Herzl's book, right? Judenstat, right, Hamidi nahi
udit. But of course he's looking at it
from a much different perspective.
So anyway, that book was for sale.
I said sure, you know, I, I always buy books that have to do
with that. I mean, the night Israel, I
wrote Israel, I read it and I said forget about Ayela de
Shakar for now or Philber's book, End of the story is that
15 years later I did Ayala Shakar.
That was my most recent book. A few years ago I came out with
that also. But it was so great.
This Medina you Hadid was so on the ball, so perfect the
answering the questions that everyone was asking.
I said I have to translate this right away.
This has got to be my next project.
And, and then that's, that's basically what I did.
And that, that is a question of redemption.
It became my third translation. And since then I've done others.
Maybe as we go on, we'll talk about some of the other books
that I've written. But you know, this one really,
really caught my eye And, you know, it sold out right away.
The, the, the Hebrew edition, like it was very, very popular
cause, you know, there's a lot of sperm out there, but he
really puts everything together into, into logical, you know,
topics, subtopics, and he answers the questions with such
precision and, you know, shorten to the point it's Mamash and
it's really a great book. So by the way, by the way,
before you, I want to just thank you guys for, for being the
catalyst to make me review the book.
It's been I don't know how many years.
And I look at the thing, it was put out of 5764.
That's 22 years ago. I translated it.
I'm not saying I have read parts of it since then, but I
literally the last few weeks I've been reading it from from
beginning to end. And that's thanks to you because
I wanted to make sure that I was on the ball and I remembered, I
remembered everything. So yeah.
Absolutely. And I so, so we came across, I
came across the book. So my niece, my niece Odelia was
married to Josh Aziz, who you know, shout out to them for,
for, for, for recommending you and the book.
And exactly the way you said it is the way I felt it as I was
reading the book. It, I loved how it was not so
much philosophy. It wasn't like, you know,
overly, you know it. It was to the point, very
straightforward within, within the text Tana Gemara, like, you
know, just here you go. And it was just, there was a,
there was a powerful, it was, it felt very powerful When you read
it, a lot of times people like, you know, you'll, you'll read a
book and it goes into like heavy philosophy and it starts, you
know, going. And this was like, OK, here's
the question. And it's a, and it's a real
question. It's an important question.
It's something we have to deal with.
Let's go see what actually it says in Tana.
Let's go see what it says in the Gemara.
Let's go. And and it was just is the eye
opener going through it. So, so we're, we're happy and
excited to to go through the book right now.
Gosh. OK, So just for for the first
question, since we brought up Theodore Herzl, there's a common
misconception regarding Zionism that it started, it all started
with Theodore Herzl. And you point out in your
introduction that it actually started 64 years before Herzl in
the form of a stimulated ideological debate.
Who are some of the rabbis who were for Zionism?
And what was the primary motive of those who opposed it?
And are those motives still pervasive today?
Obviously, today we know Zionism is a big topic of conversation.
It's extremely relevant, more than ever before because many
Jews are maybe indifferent to the idea, or maybe they don't
see the connection, you know, as as some type of a biblical
prophecy coming to life. So I think it's extremely
important to have this conversation now more than ever.
So without further ado. Sure.
So it's interesting. I know he, I know the author
wrote, you know, started 64 years before and he said
Zionism, but Zionism actually really didn't.
The Zionism, that actual term really, really does start with
Herzl. The ones who started the
movement to come back to Eretzi surreal were mostly religious
Jews, mostly big rabbis, who I'll give the names in a second.
And their movement was more called the Kovavetzion, like the
lovers of Zion, right? And, you know, the political
Zionism started more or less with Herzl.
So, you know, I forget who said it.
I think maybe it must have been a rough cuckoo said, you know,
you know, Zionism has become a bad word, unfortunately, in many
circles. But if you really think about
it, God is a Zionist because it says Ki bachar hashembicion IVA
le MO shavlou. I mean, we there's a bumper
sticker. Someone saw that someone wrote
that on it. God is a religious Zionist,
right? You know, it's God chose Zion.
He's the one who chose it. He's the one who desires it.
We say it every day in the Avenue Ivano Shavlou.
He desires it to be his dwelling place.
So these rabbis just I mean, what caused it?
Probably a lot of different factors caused this idea to be
to be woken up in their in their minds, probably.
I mean, maybe we'll touch on this a little later, but you
know, probably divinely inspired to a certain degree that, you
know, why all of a sudden, you know, for thousands of years
Jews have been persecuted. It's not that the the Holocaust
or the the anti-Semitism that started prior to the Holocaust.
You know, it was nothing new. It was, you know, it was like
that all throughout history. So why was it that never before
did the Jews say, you know what, enough with this.
Let's just pick up and let's go back to Israel and, you know,
reconquer our country or, you know, however we do it
politically, you know, by by asking, begging them to give us
back the land, etcetera. However we do it.
Why didn't that that ever happened before?
Because God didn't want it to happen before.
He's the one who who brought this idea up in the Jewish
collective mind to think about the possibility of, you know,
what anti-Semitism is just getting to the point where you
know, there's no future for us here.
So therefore many great rabbis and like he discusses in the
beginning, Rev Sihersh Kalischer, Ravihuda Alkali,
Ravilio Guttmacher, very famous. You know, Jouavetzione, right?
Zionists is like whether they were Zionists, they probably
were Zionists also, but not in the negative sense, obviously
not in the secular Zionist sense.
Similar to like with RAF Takhtal, the name of my name is
Mekhas. So people say he became a
Zionist. He did not become a Zionist, he
became a a lover of Zion. And well, I guess all true Tami
Dekh Hamim have to be a lover of Zion.
But you know, in a practical sense, he believed that it
became something that we have to do.
So you know, these great rabbis that I've mentioned that he
mentions in the introduction, but there are so many others,
so, so many others, I mean mentioned in various different
Svarim quoted, you know, there's a safer, I don't know if you
know this safer. It's called chivaccion.
I actually have a copy of it here.
For a long time it was out of print.
It was far to get safer called chivaccion.
OK, people have told me I have to translate it into English.
Well, I'm not so sure. It's a little.
This is the problem of living in America, but besides the problem
of not being in LTSO, we also don't get access to this Sony
amazing swarim. Right, right.
So this is a safe error by an Abraham Yakov Slutsky.
He lived. Let's see if it says when
exactly. Oh, it was first printed in
Warsaw in Tough Reish Nunbet. Somebody do the math for me?
Tough Reish Nunbet Toughshenko, 130, No 100 and yeah, about 130
years ago, something like that, 150 years ago.
And that was when the whole question was becoming, you know,
a big issue of go back to Israel or not, you know, Zionism or
not. And he decided to write letters
to all the condolence of the generation and ask their opinion
on the issue. And there are just letter after
letter after letter that he got back from some of the biggest
names that you've that we all know of and also some people who
we're not so familiar with. But judging by the ones whose
name we do know, I assume the other ones are pretty big of
them. Also.
He wasn't just writing it to, you know, Joe Schmoe's.
He was writing it to big, big Rebunion.
And I mean, some of the rebunion are, you know, the Nitsieve
Remeer Simhov Devinsk right there, or Samayak Mesha Hochma,
Rabi Oshua Kuttner, who was a big postsaic of the time, Rabi
Yitzko Hunt, Inspector Reitz. And Yu is named after him, which
I never really understood why, but but I do know, I do know
that he was literally the biggest postsaic in Europe.
Like he was #1 everyone would go to him for the biggest
questions. And of course, the Malbim.
The Malbim also wrote a letter here, a beautiful letter and,
and, and others like Rep Schmo Alivar, who was known to be, you
know, one of the biggest religious Zionists ever.
So, so there are many, many Gadolin who were pro, which
we'll maybe get to a touch upon a little bit more later on.
But you know, you asked what the, you know, what the, what
were the reasons why they were opponents?
Why did the opponents oppose it? So, you know, mainly I think it
was because they saw redemption as being a totally divinely
inspired, sort of like Mila Mala Mila Mata, you know, from heaven
to here, not, not something that we have to take part in, you
know, and to tell you the truth, that is really probably the most
plausible way it could have happened.
If you think about it, before the state of Israel, before the
whole Zionist and provocation, you would have asked, am I,
what's the most plausible way of Mashiach coming?
They'll say, well, from the heavens, like, you know,
miraculously, they'll say that we're going to we're going to
start a political movement and get control of our land from the
Turks or whoever They would say, are you out of your mind?
It's more, it's more possible that it's going to happen by
miracles than it's going to happen in other ways.
So therefore they, they were like, and that's the way Jews
thought for hundreds of years, not thousands of years.
So therefore they were just against the whole idea of, you
know, we have to go and do something about it.
No, we have to sit back and we have to just pray and do Torah
mitzvot and the rest we leave up to God.
It's sort of it's. Sort of like a reflection of how
out of reach the concept and the idea was for them.
It just seemed so absurd that such a thing can happen that it
just like got relegated into, you know, let let ashram take
care of it type of situation. I understand.
Well, that is interesting because I understand what you're
saying. However, Fast forward, Fast
forward of roughly 50 years after that, that that book or
something like that, We did manage to re establish Art
Israel yet and even today that same type of thinking is still
being employed. Right.
Correct, correct. You know, you want my opinion on
it. I think it's like hiding your
head, your head in the sand. I mean, we'll probably get to
the issues, but you know, it's because it was done by secular
Jews and. We're going.
To get it can't, right? We'll get into that.
It's like, it can't be like if it was done by, by, from Jews
by, by the Dolehatdoor, I assume 99% of the Jewish world would be
on board. But since it wasn't, and so
that's a, you know, it's two things.
Number one, that it was done by our own, you know, our own
hands. We, we were the ones who, who
made it happen seemingly, right? And which, which again is, is
sin number one, according to some people.
And #2 that it was done by secular Jews.
Like, come on, how could that possibly be?
But there were other issues. There were, you know, practical
issues of like, you know why? And, and it's connected to what
we just said. Like, why put this crazy idea in
people's minds when it's never gonna happen, it's never gonna
come to fruition. And you're gonna take all of
these resources that we have and money donations and you're going
to, you know, send it towards that, which is not practical.
Let's worry about our communities in in the diaspora
and not, you know, get us all excited about something that's
never going to happen. I mean, you know, there are
other issues, but you know, those were the main, I think the
main issues that caused people to be against.
Fair enough, Fair enough. OK, so let's let's get into the
second question as it touches upon what we actually just
brought up right now. So a common argument of those
who oppose religious Zionism is that the founders of Zionism and
the state of Israel are people who did not fulfill God's
commandments in their eyes. How can the ultimate redemption
begin with those who are not beholden to Allah?
It seems incomprehensible. Your book, the book begins with
the book begins with this question, as well as the
question of what value can there be in establishing the land
without to Hamid's vote and the idea that the redemption can be
brought about by secular Jews. We wanted to ask you to share
your insights into these matters.
OK so first we have to understand this is what he does
in the 1st chapter is it's not like this is a big finish.
It's not like this has never happened before in Jewish
history. There are plenty of precedents
where redemption came about even though the Jewish people were
not worthy, even though we were not on the proper level.
I mean, the, the 1st and most obvious example is, is is
Yitzhak Mitzrayim. I mean, we left Egypt, we were
on the 49th level of Tuma. How, how did God redeem us?
The answer is what? Because God promised that he
would. He said you're going to be in
Egypt for 400 years. And, and when that time came, we
have to be redeemed whether we deserve it or not.
So, you know, the famous Rashi brings that Hashem gave us 2
mitzvot, Dam Mila and Dam Corbin Pesach, something that we could
show that we're doing something, you know, good something, some
kind of mitzvah for Hashem to give us some credit so we can
deserve it. So yeah.
So, so you know, that's that's number one.
And again, a precedent if we really actually even go before
that. No, no, I'm sorry, not before
Egypt, but but another issue and that is that we find that
throughout the whole redemptive process, things happen in ways
that I guess most people would not have expected it to happen,
right? The the Davidic dynasty, which
is of course, the ultimate, you know, Kingdom of, of AMI Israel,
the Mesiach will eventually be a descendant of David had a lot of
problems, a lot of problems to say the very least.
And you start with and his the incest with his daughters that
created Moab and Amoan, of course.
And then from Moab came Root. And then on David's side, on the
on the Jewish side, you had Hudan Tamar, very problematic
story. And then from them came Peretz
eventually came Boaz. And now Boaz marries this root,
who's a descendant of getting to shovel out, right.
This is an important, you know, topic to talk about before
shovel out. And, you know, no one in their
right mind would have thought that such a holy the, the the
holy Messianic king is going to come from all these problematic
relationships. And nonetheless, who has his own
reasoning. We'll get to that in this in a
second. Why?
But we, so we find that these kind of things happen in the, in
the redemptive process, getting back to historical precedents.
So we have Egypt and we have also within Egypt, by the way,
the 4/5 of the Jewish people died, 4/5 were not even
deserving to, to come out of Egypt, which definitely shows
that we were not on the level that we deserved redemption.
And of course, Biocheni is the best example in general.
I mean, the, the similarities between what happened in the
time of the Second Commonwealth and what's happening today are,
are uncanny. Like really, if you really think
about it, there's Cyrus's declaration, there's the Balfour
declaration, there's the fact that Ezra, you know, calls Jews
to come back. And many, many, many of them,
vast majority don't come back. Only 42,360 Jews follow Ezra.
Ezra was the God of adore. I mean, the the elder Kumaran
Sanhedra, I think it is, says that had the Torah not been
given to Moshe Arbena, would it would have been given to Ezra.
Ezra's calling the Jews to come back.
The 70 years of Golu was up. We knew, everyone knew After the
first temple was destroyed, the prophet said explicitly, it's
going to be 70 years. And then when that 70 years
came, it was like everything made sense.
Cyrus is saying, OK, Jews come back.
Ezra is calling the Jews to come back and rebuild the temple.
And most of the Jews don't listen to him.
Who comes up with Ezra? The, the lowlifes, the ones who
are intermarried, the ones who are Mahalo Shabbos, the ones who
are, you know, doing all types of different sins.
And Ezra just accepts them. He just takes them with him.
And they are the ones who eventually built the Second
Temple. And the whole, you know, the
whole link, the lineage of, of Torah Shabalpad, the whole, you
know, handing down of Torah Shabalpad, the Mesura, right, is
through these people 'cause they eventually Ezra was able to
bring them back to Torah. But it's all, it's very similar.
I mean, today we had a declaration.
The nations of the world said you can come back.
And the people who came back were not the firmest.
It's, there's so many similarities.
But anyway, the point being here that that that didn't stop God
from redeeming the Jewish people and, and, and allowing them to
build the Second Temple, even though they were not the firmest
people. And in fact, I think, you know,
if you read the book, remember I have one quote which I think is
like so beautiful from the Nitsivami Valajan, which is
actually this is from that book that I was telling you about
before. The Shivat Sion is a bunch of
letters, bunch of letters from the Nitsivami Valajan.
And this is one of them. He says we must not speculate
that this great matter, meaning the resettlement of Eretic
shall, should have occurred differently as people visualize
in their mind's eye. Indeed, one must not express his
opinion to God. Who are you to tell God how he
should do things? That's not up to us.
As the prophet Yeshio says, My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Your ways are not my ways, says Hashem.
You can't understand me. We must not be overly wise and
say that it has to happen in a different way.
And then he says about the Second Temple.
Ezra the scribe gathered a few thousand Jews in Babylonia, all
types of people. Some of them were great Torah
scholars, God fearing individuals, and also men who
had foreign wives, people who regularly violated the Sabbath,
and those who had no Torah knowledge whatsoever.
These people work together and prepare the land for settlement
until it was eventually filled with its children.
We too says that it's Eve. This is the whole of a teal,
right? We must awaken to the sound of
God's desire, which resonates from one end of the earth to the
other, et cetera, et cetera. In other words, we've, you know,
we've, we've been through this before.
It's not a new idea. That's number one.
Number two, I would I would also point out, I mean, he in the 2nd
chapter talks about also the fact that the leaders can be
not, you know, can be sinners. We know that from Omri.
We know that from Yerevan the second and so many other
examples. Someone who?
Huh? Yeah, Menasha was probably the
worst, you know, 55. Years, right, right, right.
And and all these people had certain, you know, situations
where Hashem helped them and Hashem brought salvation to the
Jewish people. And one of my favorite examples
is the whole story. Wasn't so long ago we read the
Haftorah of Parsha Tasri and Mitsorah where the four lepers,
right with the whole story with Elisha.
And then there was a famine. And he said tomorrow they'll be
enough grain that it'll be the prices will drop drastically.
And and who is the one who actually discovered all that
grain in the in the camp of Aram that was, you know, fighting
against us? It was the four lepers.
And who were the four lepers? It was Gekhazi and his three
sons. Gekhazi.
He was considered a rush. He's one of the people doesn't
have a Heinleich and Olamba, but Hashem sometimes brings Ghula
through those who are capable and willing and able at the
time. Hashem doesn't look at a
person's, you know, sitkus necessarily when he wants to
redeem the Jewish people. When the time comes, it's it's
time and Hashem will do it. However, however it's possible.
So that's, that's that I, I don't know if you want to get
into the whole question of why you know, that's, that's the, if
it's possible. Clearly it's possible.
It's happened so many times in history that redemption can come
through secular or even anti religious shoes.
We can get into the right? If you have thoughts about the
why, we'd love to hear. Yeah, so I, I don't know if you
remember chapter 6, but chapter 6 is like the most beautiful
chapter of the whole book where he gives 10 explanations from
various different acronium where he explains why Hashem would do
it this way. But the most important part of
Chapter 6 is the introduction where he basically says to the
reader, what hutzpah to even ask such a question.
What hutzpah like again, like we just said, the native quote,
Lomax, you're going to tell me I don't believe this is the gula
because it's not happening the way I thought it should happen.
We have to look at is the facts, the facts, and hopefully we'll
get that a little later. The facts are that there's no
question that we are in very deep into the the gula process.
But to ask and to deny it because it doesn't fit our way
of thinking well, we expected our expectations is like such
unbelievable hotspot. But then he goes on to say that
nonetheless, people are curious and people want to know and,
but, but he says, he says, really, you could skip this
chapter because this is really not necessary to to for the main
point of the book, which is to prove that, as it says on the
cover, can the modern state of Israel be the beginning of
redemption? The answer is, it certainly can
based on sources. Why would Hashem do it this way
as opposed to another way? That's that's a, that's a
theological question that we really shouldn't be asking
against God. But nonetheless, since you know,
many Gadolin throughout the generations have given answers.
So he he shares a few now there, there are 10 answers here.
I'm certainly not going to go through them all.
I'll just pick you really like pick one that you.
Really like two or three quick. I'll, I'll do it quickly.
But first of all, it's really what we said before that
sometimes Hashem at a time of trouble, Hashem will redeem the
Jewish people with whoever is available at the time.
By the way, the first 3 answers are given by the cite Eliezer.
So the cite Eliezer, you know, the Ezer Waldenberg was no, you
know, keep us through God wearing the Jew.
He was not America's robnik. He lived in Maisha and he was
one of the biggest postgame of of the previous generation and
he has a beautiful Chuvo all about there.
It's Israel the not the Israel issues and like the first answer
he gives is we find especially the story of Eurovam.
The second, the second Eurovam who there was a terrible Jews
were in terrible trouble and Hashem, it says explicitly
Hashem save them through Eurovam.
And then the, the, the Sicilia goes to say that it's very
possible that after the Holocaust, the Jews desperately
needed salvation. And Hashem said, I love my
people and I'm going to save them.
Now let me look around to see who's, who's capable of doing
this, who's capable of, you know, establishing a state.
And he looks in the religious sector cause of course he'd
rather do it through religious Jews.
But there's no one there. There's no one even, you know,
even close because they've been, you know, staying far away ever
since, you know, Herzl and the irreligious got involved.
So it's like, OK, who's available right now?
It's the secular Jews. I'm going to do it through them.
I think one of my favourite answers, also given by the Sis
Eliezer, is that he did it that way to make sure we understand
that it's a miracle. We understand that it's Hashem
bringing about the redemption. I know it sounds.
It's flipping it on its head. It's flipping it on its head.
Flipping it on its head because of follows.
Because let's say that it would have been done through totally
religious means, like all the Gadolin would have said.
Let's all everyone should come back there and see, Sir.
Oh, we should. No one would necessarily have
thought that this is Hashem bringing about the redemption.
Maybe they'd say, you know, from Jews always knew that Eritrea is
where the Jewish people belong, is where we can reach our
fullest potential. And they want us to come back to
Eritrea, not not related to any kind of redemption.
And then no one would have thought would have seen it as as
abnormal. But now that secular Jews who
have almost totally lost, especially Herzl, he literally
was the most assimilated person you can imagine.
And those type of people all of a sudden are going to become
excited about this idea to rebuild a Jewish state in the
whole in inheritance Israel, and not for religious reasons at
all. I mean, that just shows that it
obviously came from Hashem. Who else?
How else can you explain why a secular Jew would want to do
that? He would want to just, you know,
live it up and have a good time and forget about Judaism.
So there's those and many other many other answers.
I'll, I'll, I'll say it this way.
Whoever wants to you should read the book and it's.
There are eight other beautiful answers that are given here.
Yeah, I mean, I think it it's, I think we can look at the famous
idea that that Mashiach could come riding a chariot from the
heavens or riding on a donkey. And this could be potentially
like the the birth pangs of Mashiach happened through this
process. But I actually want to get into,
if you don't mind the the anti Zionist argument from the
Kharedim, let's say, who oppose Zionism.
And they they're not just it's not just about, you know, the
them opposing, you know, secular Jews who built the land, But
they're they're actually relying on sources that they feel are
like, for example, the three oaths and and I got like the
bedtime industrial come from the heavens.
All these ideas that they believe in.
How do you address those kind of questions that they have?
Most, most of the sources, I, I put it this, I think they, they
choose certain sources and everyone know, like you said,
the three oaths and there's the, you have the Gamara, the not
even Gamara, the, the Rashi and Tosa that say that it's going to
come from the heavens, all those kind of things.
They focus on a few sources that seem to indicate, you know, that
it can't happen any other way but.
What it's selective? Selective, it's selective.
It's also it's like, you know, the whole thing with the three
oaths was barely came up before the Sama Rebbe.
I mean, he's the one who, you know, really, really made it
popular, so to say. And I mean, the answers to it
are so much better than the question, you know?
Do you know the? Well, I, I think, I think the
third oath is the easiest one. It's so obvious that the nations
will oppress us so much. And then so like, that's it.
They broke they broke their deal that we.
Clearly that happened so. You know, right, Right.
No. So I don't know if you know, Rev
Avinir put it out. You know, Rev Vinir, Rev
Shalvir, of course. So he put out a pamphlet called
Shaloya Lubahoma, which is the first in the main, the main oath
that the Sotmer quote. And he has 13 answers to it.
And each answer is based on sources and he goes into detail
to explain them all. I think you, you, you pointed
out that one, that answer, but the real answer is that Rashi
says very clearly, Yahad Biyarhazaka, that the, the
definition of Bahoma is that we're going to go up forcibly
and conquer the land. No one went up forcibly to
conquer the land. We got permission from first the
British Mandate, who was in control of the land at the time.
Then we got permission from the League of Nations, right, 'cause
the League of Nations ratified the Balfour Declaration into,
into official international law. I mean, it was, it's very nice
that the British said that. But, you know, when the League
of Nations was established in 1920, they had the big
conference in San Remo. They said, yes, we agree.
That's, you know, this is gonna be the, a Jewish state.
And then, of course, in the 1947, you know, vote in the, in
the United Nations, which took over for the League of Nations
right in in every one of these cases, they gave us permission.
They gave it to us. The nations of the world gave it
to us. You know, there's a famous
statement of Rep Salvage who says, you know, I don't believe.
I believe that. There is almost nothing you can
point to that the United Nations has done significantly besides
the recognition of, you know, the state of Israel.
And he says, and he says he believes that that's the whole
purpose of its creation was for it to give the Jewish people,
the land of Israel back after so many years.
And, you know, that's not what the Gemara was against.
The Gemara was against in the middle of let's say in in the
1200s, we're sick of anti-Semitism.
So all the Jews get together and say let's let's rent or buy
boats and let's buy, you know, swords and bows and arrows and
we're going to go and we're going to take over the land of
Israel. That was probably not not
allowed according to this Gemara, right?
But we didn't do that now after the fact.
That we received it, then the fighting.
We received it and then they'd start attacking us and we were
that's self-defense. And you know what I realized
just the other day, I realized this.
We said before how there's so many parallels between the
Second Temple, Ezra, etcetera, and what's happening today that
also, you know, Cyrus gave them permission to come back to Eretz
Israel and then he, he rescinded it, but it was too late.
We didn't say, oh, they didn't allow us anymore.
We have to go back to Bavel. No, they said we're here
already. We're ready.
In the middle of the start is we started building the temple.
All of that's it. You can't you can't take it
back. And then we started right there.
The Tanakh says that they were with one hand, you know,
building and the other hand having a sword in their hand to
protect. I mean, that's just the nature
of the beast. That's the way it works.
The nations of the world, for some reason, they had this
divine inspiration to allow us to have our land back and then
they retracted it. But that's maybe God's, you
know, God's plan and he wants us to sacrifice for it.
Who knows why? But that's that doesn't mean we
can't do it. Even even the first conquest of
the land of the Yoshio bin Noon, like we had a whole generation
before who were not, they were kind of regretting, you know,
leaving Egypt and not wanting to go in.
And God, right, he, he, he wants them to have faith and fight,
but it's not like God is fighting the battles for them.
He said there's no miracle that, you know, there's no temple
falling from the heavens. They actually had to fight.
They had to scout the terrain, you know, of, of Yuriko and see
like how they could like it's they're using, you know,
military strategy. It wasn't just walking in there
and God's going to do all the work.
All right, all right. So.
So why do we think it's going to be different in the end of days?
I mean, really, we all know the famous Gemara in Sanhedrin.
Correct me if I'm wrong. I think it's Sadie bad.
It might be it's somewhere in the Saudis there.
OK, where the Gemara says that brings a stereo between the
same, actually within the same pasukuni shayo, the parekh
parekh samak B ITA akhishena, right?
The parekh ends with B ITA akhishena in it's time, I will
hasten it. And the Gemara views that as a
internal contradiction. Hashem, we're talking about
Google, all right. He says B ITA in it's time, I
will hasten it. Those are two different things.
In it's time means it's a set time, I will hasten it means
I'll bring it earlier. And then the Gemara asks the
same question about that, that that mashiach will come like the
clouds of heaven. And on the other hand, it'll be,
it'll come riding on a donkey, right?
A neither a poor man riding on a donkey, which you know, clouds
of heaven are fast, are quick and and the riding a donkey is
very slow. So the Gemara answers both of
those contradictions with the same answer.
Zahu Akrishana, if we deserve it, it'll come quicker.
Then it'll be in its time. And that's what we said before
also, you know, at the end of the 400 years, whenever that 400
years started, you know, it was time for us to be redeemed.
We were redeemed whether we deserved it or not, if we don't
deserve it. So it's going to be painful and
it's going to be a slow process. And the same thing happened the
second temple in the same thing is happening now.
Especially when you would consider that the, as you say,
why is now in its time? Well, first of all, because
obviously things are just happening.
That shows that obviously this is God's time.
But besides the fact history is running out, the famous Gemara,
that the world as we know it will exist for 6000 years,
People mistakenly think that that means that in the year
5999, Meshiach's going to come. That's BE TA, that's his time.
That can't possibly be because it has to be a whole tufa, a
whole era of Mashiach, A messianic era where all the
prophecies are going to come true.
Because don't forget the Gemara thinking Bracho says that that
all the prophecies are all about you, Mashiach.
But Olomaba, I am Laura Tazulati Leukem, right?
No one has ever seen, you know, the prophets don't even talk
about Olomaba. That's like beyond, we don't
even, we can't even describe it. But all the prophecies, the good
prophecies are about the, the, the era of Mashiach.
That means there's got to be a significant amount of time
beforehand that we're going to have a messianic king and
there's going to be World Peace, Loya Segoeil, Goycherev, Loya
Muduod Milhama. So it just makes sense that, you
know, 250 years approximately before, you know, the end of
time, things started moving because that's the bita, that's
it's time. So getting back to our question,
there's no question that yes, gula can happen miraculously,
but I think we'd have to be quite foolish to believe that
really that's the way it's gonna happen, unfortunately.
Look though, we'll look at the, the standing of world jewelry
today. We're so far from Tora mitzvot
and we're still so far from Akhtus and so many other things
that Hashem has to redeem us, and he will, because the Itai
has come, but that it's gonna be miraculous.
It's very hard to believe there. Also also, it's how you define
what a miracle is, because I would say even the miracles that
always occurred were always happening through nature.
You know, like the man, the man growing except for me trying.
But even that there are people who can interpret that to be
through the like nothing. The unicorns weren't flying from
the heavens and and things weren't happening.
It's all within the natural order of things and it's even
the splitting of you. You have documentaries on The
History Channel explaining how these things could happen in the
natural manner. It's not so insane to say, you
know, like these. It is, I would say like the Iron
Dome is miraculous. You know, like to me, like the,
the, it's, it's so obvious. But I actually wanted to bring
up another thing. I think one of the arguments you
hear from people is that, you know, OK, you can, you can make
the, we can make the case that Hanukkah is a holiday that, you
know, the, the Hashmana aim didn't accept the reality of
losing sovereignty and they fought back and they took back
the land. But they would argue, the
opponents would argue and say, well, there's still, you know,
Sanhedrin and they're still like, there's a, there's a Navi,
whatever. They can make an excuse.
But what about Rabi Akiva? Rabi Akiva is already Barkholo
rebel. He ended up being wrong about
him, but barn occupiers were ruling the land and he decided
that we're going to fight and we're going to take it back.
What on what authority? Who's where's the Navi at the
time? So the fact is, and he ended up
being wrong about our cocoa. But the point is, is that there
is a precedent for this even from that religious standpoint
that we don't need to wait for a new Navid to come and tell us to
fulfill a prophecy that Moshe already gave us the prophecy.
I don't need a new prophet, right?
Right, right, right. So so I, I don't know if we're
getting into that question now if you want me to, but but
that's that is so I'll tell you 33 ideas.
Number 1 is a story. Have you ever heard of a Rav
Benny Eisner? You ever heard of a Betty Eisner
in all yours? OK, He was a Rebbe in BMT, you
know, back when that was one of the famous, one of the first the
American yeshivot. He was my Rebbe and he was many
people's Rebbies. And he was really, really very
influential. He was a student of RT who to
cook. So anyway, the story goes like
this. He was very friendly with my
wife's family. So when my brother-in-law got
married, he came in from Israel to for the for the wedding.
So it was the Shabbos ofraf, and we're diving in the shul that
my, my, my inlaws went to. And in that shul they say the
prayer for MIDI na Israel, but they skip the words Rashid
Smihagu Latino. They say, you know, I'm sorry.
So we go, hello, but Rekhet Midihad Israel, I get a letter
back. They don't say Rashid Smihagu
Latino. So Benny Eisner is not the type
to just be silent when he sees something that he doesn't agree
with. So he waved.
Thank God, he waited till after davening.
He went over to the rabbi and the rabbi is a very famous
rabbi. I won't say who it is.
He said to rabbi, I don't understand why don't why doesn't
Joshua say Rasheed Smihad do Latino?
So the rabbi said we don't have profits today to tell us that
this is the the beginning of the redemption without skipping a
beat of Benny, Eisner said, last I checked, Yeshayo Yermi, Yahoo,
Yezkel, Amos, Hoshea, blah, blah, blah, blah, we're all
naveen. They already told us what it's
going to be like and all their words are coming to to to
fruition in our own days. Why do we need a Navi today to
tell us what the naveen already told us?
They already told us it's partial.
Exactly. That's, that's number one.
And, and, and it's, it's extremely important because I, I
really believe it's, it's more of a, it's an excuse.
It's like, oh, we don't have anything in today where who says
we need a nuvi? Where does it ever say we're
certainly going to need a nuvi for certain things like, you
know, how to build a maiden Mcdosh?
Exactly. OK, we're not talking about,
we're talking about the Ithalta, the Gula, the beginning of the
process. There's no question.
You know, I never counted, but I once read somewhere there's
close to 40 prophecies about the in gathering of the Exiles.
If anybody could look at what's happening today in terms of
Kibbutz Galiot and not understand that we are
witnessing Kibbutz Galiot and there's something seriously,
seriously problematic. They're just simply so blinded
by their opposition and by their one or two Gamaras again that
say, you know, we cannot let it come back forcibly.
And therefore, it can't possibly be that this is the real
redemption because we did it against, you know, God's will.
OK, So what are you gonna do about the facts that are on the
ground, the things that are happening that are clearly
fulfillments of prophecy? I mean, just a few numbers.
I mean, keep what's just in terms of keep what's there.
There's so many other issues, but I, this is the one I really
like talking about most because it's the one that's most
undeniable In we talked about the Balfour Declaration, right?
So there's a statistic that I read that at the time of the
Balfour Declaration there was 56,000 Jews in Israel.
By the way, if you go back to late 1800s when the whole thing
just started, I would assume that means there were maybe
10,000 Jews in Israel, maybe 56,000 in 1917 when the Balfour
Declaration happened. And then by 48 there was already
600,000. By 671967 there were two and a
half million. Today we're at 7.5 million Jews
living in Eric Israel. I mean, that's like, in my
opinion, that's like end of discussion.
There's nothing more to talk about.
How can you deny that this is kibbutzgalia?
What else could it possibly be? Give me some other explanation.
Are we're going to be gathered and we're going to be kicked out
again? Doesn't say anywhere in the FEMA
that's going to ever happen. Never do we find a prophecy that
half the Jewish people are going to come back to Israel.
They're going to be destroyed again.
They're going to be. An excellent point.
That's an. Excellent point.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that seems. Significant enough that if it
were to actually be there would be some sort of prophecy to to
to point to that because that that that's a very significant,
you know, 7.5 million Jews in Israel, you know out and back in
like it that that just it's it's.
Way too many. I always give a following.
Mushal. OK, this is mine.
It's not. It's not in the book.
But I really hope by this I'm gonna describe for you an
animal. OK?
And I want you at the end to tell me what animal I'm
describing. It's extremely large, weighing
several tons. It has a very rough Gray,
grayish color skin. It has four legs that are like
tree trunks. Each one it has a long nose that
it uses to pick things up etcetera, etcetera, and it has
small little ears. What did I just describe?
An. Elephant.
Well, the elephant doesn't have small ears.
It doesn't answer, you're right. I don't know.
Use your your intuition. It's an elephant.
It might be a deformed elephant, but to call it anything but an
elephant because it has one 5% of it is not elephant.
Like shows that you're, you're being ridiculous.
Like let's say those ears are very, very similar to monkey
ears. And then someone would say
that's a monkey. Why 'cause 5% of it is, is
monkey ears. That's the most ridiculous thing
ever. So when you look at the
prophecies, when you look at the prophets, when you look at the
signs of redemption that have come true, it is, it is 95% of
it. It's like the main aspects of
ghulah have already come to fruition.
I agree. It's a little bit of a strange,
a little bit of a deformed elephant, because why did it
have my way of secular Jews? Why is it not miraculous?
Why, you know, a million different questions, but that's
such a small amount when you talk about the big picture of
the fulfillment of so many different prophecies.
We didn't get into the fact that every Tisarel is rejuvenated
with Jabara Saudi. Imagine Salihad on the bed.
Rabi Alva, right? Ain't look like Kate Smegulemi's
there. There's no clearer sign of the
end than when Erezischal starts giving forth his fruits once
again, right? I mean, the clearest signs of
Gulen, the nearest clearest 1. So like, how could you deny all
that? And then not I'll I'll give you
another, I'll give you another examples because it just
happened, right? We just, we just had Yomi
Ushalayim. So I I give this year on Yomi
Ushalim that happened to have given it last week like 4 times
in different, different institutions where I where I
show the Sama Rebbe what he wrote about the six day war,
right? He wrote a whole book about it
and it was all Masa SATA and there was no miracles According
to him, you know, Kidarco Bakodesh.
And then there was another safer of Menachem and Lukash or
Hatkufa Hagdola, the great era that came out also right after
the six day war where he says the exact opposite.
There's so many miracles, etcetera.
Excuse me. So I, I gave that to you.
I didn't even realize that someone recorded it and put it
up on Wyutora. The next day I get a, I get a,
an e-mail from this guy who clearly is in the summer camp
and he gives me this whole explanation about how come there
was not a single, no miracles whatsoever.
Everyone knew that Israel was going to win, win the war in 67.
There was nothing, absolutely nothing and whatever went on and
on and on and on. OK.
And honestly, I was, it was, it was painful.
It, it really hurt me because he was giving, he was really
bringing proofs. He said, you know, the, it
wasn't just, you know, made-up stuff.
It was the, you know, Egypt knew that it wasn't going to win.
They were just they were just flexing their muscles.
They weren't really going to attack.
And Israel attacked like all these things.
OK. So I turned to one of my Rabaim
who was here in the Six Day War. And I remembered that and and I
said to him, what what do I, how do you answer this?
And he said something so beautiful.
He said the very nature of a nistar is that it depends on a
muna. It's based on a muna.
You have to have a belief, you have to believe it.
It's not provable. You can't prove it either way.
So and then he said, but don't worry, you know, you're
certainly in the right because all of the gadolin, he wrote in
big letters all. And by the way, he's very, he's
more on the haredi side, but he's also somewhat, you know,
Zionist. He said all of the Gadolin of
the generation here that were here in Eretz he saw all the
time saw it as clear miracles from a Kurdish Baruchu.
So it's well, I'm bringing this up because those who it goes
against their their philosophy, they will do anything in the
world to to explain things in other ways in order to deny
Hashem has to deny Hashem's miracles and deny the
fulfillment of so many of the different of the different
prophecies that are being fulfilled in our very in our
very days. So it's it's illogical.
In my humble opinion, it's illogical.
It's the same thing. See what you want to see?
Yeah, see what you want to see. It's the it's the same thing
that, you know, they do with like they lean on an obscure
agada over clear explicit prophecy in Tanakh.
And the Agada could be interpreted many ways aside from
the fact that agador, we have a long tradition that agadora are
not literal things that we have to, you know, it's, it's, it's,
it's it. There's many reasons we can get
into over there, but that's not the point.
But I wanted to point out that, you know, much of the prophecies
that we see are a call to action in the Torah where they says
like if, if you if you do XYZ, if you fulfill the means, well
then you will get this right. So why would it be any different
with this like the the the redemption should also be a call
to action. Hashem is telling us to come to
the land again, right to we have to I'll take care of it.
We have yes, exactly. We have to actually do the our
part and then Hashem will be our partner.
And I think that that's one of those things that our people
don't pay attention to. On the on the point of not being
able to see the miracles, it just reminded me I think.
I don't have the I don't know the quote off the top of my
head, but I know that says that that they did not believe that
that it was not because of the miracles that they believed in
Mushebenu because miracles a person can you know, you can,
you can explain things away, right.
So it's just when you were saying that it, it just came to
my head that that in reality, people see what they want to
see. And so if you're going to ground
something on a miracle, a miracle is always can be
disputed, right. Of course, if we're talking
about like, like you would like like the example of a Unicorn
flying around, of course. OK, the but, but in terms of
miracles, in terms of the realistic way of being able to
see God's hand in what is happening, right?
And to see that things are beyond just, you know, a regular
pattern, right? People see what they want to
see. So it just, it just goes to to.
I just wanted to support what you were saying with that.
Right, right. Just one thing I remembered is
that the the very fact that Hazal have so much to say about
these signs, they give us signs. If they didn't expect us to do
anything with those signs, why would they tell it to us?
Like what's so, so irrelevant? You know this is going to happen
and therefore, you know this is going to happen before Mashiach,
right? So what obviously Hazal are
telling us this so that we should know.
If we see that, we should, like you said, spring into action and
realize that the time has now come and like the best answer,
By the way, the best best best answer to the Shalo Shavuot is
what's the passok, the three time repeated passok in
Shirashirim that those 3 oaths is based on, right?
Hizhbati of trem Binotji rushalayim Imtahiru.
One second I skip the part I have made you swear by the by
the deer in the Hinds of the field Imtahiru that you will not
awaken the Imtahuuru you will not also awaken is another way
of saying awaken. ETA Ahava, the love.
You're not allowed to awaken the love before it's time.
I check techpots until it desires.
Meaning everyone agrees that there's going to be an end to
that isser of, you know, of, of getting involved in trying to
bring the Gula. And that is the time of tekpats.
What Hashem wants it. So there are people out there
who are just waiting for Hashem to officially, you know, call
them on the phone and say, OK, it is officially time now It's
tekpat now I want it. So now you can get up.
What do you think has been happening in the last 150 years?
Who, who else has been bringing the Jewish people back to the
land? Who else has been allowing the
land to flourish after so many Millennium of desolation, right?
It's the famous muscle of the guy drowning, right?
And he prays to God to save him and the boat passes by, right?
And he says, no, no, God's gonna save me.
And in a helicopter, right? And he dies, he goes up to
Hashem and he says, why didn't you save me?
He said, who do you think sent the boat in the in the
helicopter? You know, Hashem doesn't do
things like that. If you're waiting for Hashem to
knock on your door and or call you and say it's time, then
you're gonna be waiting a long time.
That's what Hashem has been doing.
The Acha tech parts already happened, just think otherwise
is absolutely ridiculous. Beautiful.
Well said. Do we have time for so?
So we wanted to get into the contention that the Zionists are
guilty of causing thousands of Jews to abandon their faith.
So how can we call this a state of redemption to the point where
many say Hallel over the founding of the state?
This question really gets to me also like this is a question
that that that that's hard to it's, it's hard to discuss in a
way, it's tough. Right.
It is tough. It is tough there.
There's no one that's gonna that's gonna deny that some
Zionist leaders did some terrible things.
No one's gonna deny that. But first of all, what he says
here in the book is and, and very correctly is, it's not
Zionism is not the cause of Jews going off the Derek.
It was the Enlightenment that happened way before Zionism.
These Jews were already enlightened, were already
secularized, and if anything, Zionism kept them in the fold,
kept them somewhat Jewish. How many, how many people went
to The Who didn't get involved in Zionism just you know, or
forgotten? They're not part of the Jewish
people anymore. They're descendants are all non
Jews. These people, if anything, got
involved in Zionism and that saved them.
Now that doesn't change the fact that some of them were so anti
religious that they wanted to make everyone else anti not
religious. And then when the Tamanim came
over to to Israel, they cut off their pay oath and there's no
question about it. And that's a terrible, terrible
thing. But if you really think about
it, whose fault is that? Whose fault is that?
Obviously it's the people who did it, but isn't it Also, can't
we say that the religious community has to really be
honest about itself? And they say that we can't just
wash our hands and say because there were many Gadolin before
Zionism that called for a return to Eretz Israel and everyone
ignored it. Most religious Jews totally
ignored it. Had we been in power, had
hundreds of thousands, if not, you know, more Jews come,
religious Jews come to Eretz Israel.
So we would have been in charge. It's the same question as today.
You have all the complaints you want about the the government of
Israel. You know, I'm not gonna get into
the whole army thing. But like, let's say you're
against the fact that they're forcing the Lum de Torre to, to
go into the army. So therefore, what are you gonna
do with the answer? Stay in Khotzlarz if you really
believe that's such an important thing.
So come to our answer, Israel, increase the number of religious
Jews here and therefore vote, vote in a government that will,
you know, will do things the way you think things should be done.
So. How did the religious come at
the time in large numbers this those things never would have
happened. That's a fantastic point.
You can't negate. You can't, you can't negate the
idea of the state of Israel and then complain that the state of
Israel is lacking in religiosity.
It's, it's just, it's a ridiculous point.
It's like, you know, we don't let, we don't want a religious
presence in this state of Israel.
How can there be a state of Israel when there's no religious
presence? It's like you're you're causing
your own. Playing both sides of there.
Exactly they do. That right, so, so that's a
that's a very important point. We're talking about this and and
in terms of, you know, how can we say hollow?
There's so much bad. It's true.
There's a lot of bad, but I don't know anybody who, when he
says hollow on Yomatsmoud or Yomi Urshalayim, is thinking
about, thank you Hashem, that the secular Zionists cut off the
payout of the Tamani. No, we're thinking Hashem that
we have our own country. We're thinking Hashem that it's
been a, you know, a, a haven for Jews throughout the world, that
we ourselves can, you know, serve you better here in
Aritiza. One of my Sheeran that I give on
Yomat's mood is called Simhashel mitzvah.
But the real reason we're supposed that we are happy on
Yomat's mood is because once again, we are able to fulfill
first of all, the mitzvah of Yusuvaritz Israel, which was out
of reach for thousands of years besides a small handful of Jews.
Now millions can come back. And that mitzvah, it is one of
the greatest mitzvah in the Torah, one of one of the seven
that has, I'll say are equal to all the rest.
I have a student who who went to Bar Ilan after learning in
yeshiva and he, he was involved in trying to get different
speakers to come and speak to the Heva there.
So we got rid of Usherweis to speak there once you know where
Usher Weis, Yes, yes, yes. Musher Weis is another one of
the Gadolia Dorna, so he got him to speak there, and he started
this year as follows. Today we are going to speak
about the most important mitzvah in the Torah, the most, not one
of the most important myths in the Torah.
And the whole show was about Yushuvarati Sarah.
That's Ravashi Weiss, who was a Hasidic Haredi rabbi.
OK, we have the opportunity to fulfill the mitzvah of
Yushuvarati Sarah and all of our mitzvah are not such a higher
level when when kept in Eretz Israel.
I mean, I have another book, another book that I wrote is
called The Drop in the Ocean, 365 sources on the importance of
living in Israel, a daily dose. It's called a daily dose of
Eretz Israel. So I have a whole chapter about
there's so many sources, about 30 sources on the fact that our
mitzvah are meant to be kept in Eretz Israel.
So every mitzvah that a Jew does in Eretz Israel is so much
greater. So that's what I'm saying hollow
for when I come to you know, when I say hollow on Yeoman
smooth, it's not for the bad things.
There's a time to mourn the bad and that's called Tish above.
And there are other times, but there's also a time to say thank
you. And he brings here a very
beautiful idea that you know, when a when a person die, when a
person's father dies and he was extremely rich and therefore
with his death, you the, the son gets a tremendous Gurusha right
inheritance. So the halacha says, the halacha
says you have to say 2 Brahas, say Barotha and Ahmed because
his father died and he's like Hatovami thief or a chef Yanu,
depending on who, you know, what kind of who's getting benefit
from the money that he's going to get.
He said, well, how could that be?
How could that be two things at the same time?
And the answer is yes. That's, that's the nature of,
of, of the world. There's happy things and there's
good things and there's bad things.
And we have to say, Diana, I meant I'm the bad and, and thank
gosh, I'm for the good. So obviously we're thinking
Hashem for the good when we're talking about the Saint Haala
and Yeomat's vote and and Yeomi Rushai, knowing that there's bad
and trying our best to try to fix it and do whatever we can to
make things better. Yep, 100%.
And regarding this is OK. So regarding the idea that most,
most of the Gidolim or most of most of the, the, the, the, the,
the rabbis oppose Zionism, right.
And the fact that, you know, roof cook kind of has this image
of being standing alone in this in, in the matter, which is, you
know, it's, it's an argument that it's an argument that, that
it's hard for people to, to get across that argument.
What would you say for it? First of all, it's a very it.
It's a very unprovable point to say that most gadolin are
against it for many reasons. First of all, who has actually
gotten up and counted the gadolin and said to get these
amount of these gadolin say one way and the other gadolin say
another way? First we have to know who is a
gadol. Who are we including?
But isn't that sort of subjective as well?
Right. It's very subjective.
So then it's very just really picking in.
The whole idea, the whole idea of Akharira Bhimlatot is only in
the Sanhedrin. You have a Sanhedrin of 70s
sitting together and discussing an issue and then voting.
So you have to go by the majority.
But if you have camps that each one won't even look at the
other, won't even, certainly won't discuss the issues with
the other. So then you don't go by
majority. There's no such thing as going
by majority. You go by who's you're ready.
By the way, is that what I like a lot about this safe area is
that he says it's in the beginning.
He's not trying to convince Khraitum to become Dhati Lumi.
He's if anything, trying to show people in our world of that
ilumi world, in the religious Zionist world, that we have a,
a, a quite a leg to stand on. Don't feel, you know, don't feel
you're rude. How do you say it?
Don't, don't feel, you know, less hush over, you know, that
we have less of a, of a, of a of a leg to stand on than the other
side. He shows through sources that we
have just as much to to rely on. And we have Rabin, we have
Gadolin who agreed with us and continue to agree with us.
And it's not just Ruff Cook and Ruff Cook was not a loner at
all. The book that I translated on
his life. I mean, you see some, so many
unbelievable Gadolin that were that agreed with him, that were
on his side. You know, no one was on his
level and no one was able to, you know, go as deep as he was.
But you know, people still stayed with him and and and and
went along with him. Can it also be, can it also be
by the way, that some ghidolim might might privately agree, but
because of the politics of the situation, can't really say it
in a way A. 100% that's one of the, the points he makes that
there are so many Gadolin who are, you know, like you said,
like more like just sitting on the sidelines and they secretly
harbour, you know, good feelings towards the religious Zionists
and, and the whole, the whole, their whole philosophy.
But they're not going to come out and say anything about it.
I mean, one of the one of the great examples, First of all,
Somos Al Manorvac is the biggest example because he was, you
know, the Gadol adore in in the Haredi world.
But he was very, very positive to religious Zionist, you know,
philosophy. First of all, he himself learned
by Ruf Cook. You know, there's a there's a
story, there's actually two stories about him and Ruf Cook.
He his first book, right, MO Rea Ish, I think it's called his
first book that he wrote when he was 17 about hashmal and
Halacha. You know that.
Yeah, of course. Yeah.
Very important.
So so it got a Hashcama from Ruf Cook.
Oh wow. And later on, many, many, many
years after the Rav Cook had died, someone they have to
reprint and someone said, you know, maybe we should take that
husqvamma out. Ravsomozaman said, if you take
that husqva out, you take all the Husqvas out.
Absolutely not Like Rav Cook gave me a husk.
I'm not going to take it out. That's, that's story number one.
That's a well known story. Well known story.
Fact, fact. It's not like, you know, made-up
story #2HE used to go, oh, right.
He he he once said to his students, he said, I think it
might have been like towards the end of his life.
And he said to his students, he said, I am, I am really worried
that I'm not going to get Ola Mahaba and I'm not going to
really get a, a portion on Obama.
They said, what are you talking about, Rebbe?
You know, you're you're so great.
You're such a tonic. Like what does that mean?
He said, when I was younger, I used to go on Shala Shuttis.
I used to go to Ruff Cook's Yeshiva and I used to hear his
dress out at shala shutis. That was me in Ola Mabba, and
I'm not sure that I might have already gotten my own Mahaba in
this world by hearing Ruff Cook. Yeah, I think another another
point to make is that we have to also consider that some of the
opponents of of Zionism or religious Zionism, they they
could have been wrong. That's another thing, you know,
like Rabbi Akiva got it wrong with Robert Kochba.
So I think one of the signs that they were wrong was that you
mentioned that Emma Banim Simeka as an example of somebody who
realized as things were happening.
Within that. Context and then you have those
who told people no, it's OK, you could stay and and everything
will be fine and they ended up perishing and it happened a lot
a lot of them. So I think we have to also look
at it that way like yes, someone is that got told doesn't mean
they're infallible a. 100 percent, 100%.
And another point he also makes, I'm going to get back to that in
one second. Another point he also makes is,
you know, especially today, we are so free in using that word
God all like anybody who like, you know, give some shoe and you
know, knows a decent man. I tell right, he's already a
God. All he says history is when we
we really will know. In other words, as years go by
as as as Millennium or not. It's not Millennium, you know,
decades, decades go by after a person dies.
Then you know, whether he's really a lasting God all he's
somebody like he's one of those people in, you know, Jewish
history. He's the perfect exam.
He says the Rambam during his lifetime, they burnt his books.
Is anybody not going to deny that the Rambam today is one of
the doleag doleem right of all time just because somebody,
everyone looks up to them? You know, this Rabbi, you know,
he's the greatest. Maybe in his time he was he's
the greatest. And yeah, I definitely ask him
how Chiles. But because he's against doesn't
necessarily mean that that's, you know, that you when you're
counting the Dolem, you count him as one of those who was, you
know, naked. Not necessarily.
He was not necessarily on the same level as so many of the
others. The other point you made, I had
to get back to that. Oh, what was the point you made?
I'm sorry. Thank you too much.
We're talking about, well, we're talking about that they're,
they're not in foul. Oh, they're making mistakes.
Make mistakes. I'm sorry.
All right, If the Dolan can make mistakes, which is obvious,
right? But especially on the issue of
Eretz Israel, we know, you know, we just read by midbar this
Balotra Nassau Schlach. OK, my favorite partial Schlach
parsha Chlak is all about Kulama nashim Rasheb and Israel Hema 10
of the Gadola Adore made a major mistake about Eretz Israel.
Major mistake and it's not unheard of, especially on this
issue. Sometimes supposed you know
Gadolin make mistakes on this issue, especially this.
It's interesting that they made a mistake specifically regarding
the land as well in Karshakhtala.
So I'm talking. About yeah, yeah, if we go out.
Of the land, that's where the. Yeatsahara.
The Yeatsahara fights most about this issue because he knows once
we get into that's it, he knows once the Gula happens, he's
gone. Yeatsahara Satan, whatever you
want to call it is out of business.
So he tries his hardest. This by the way, the grud talks
about in his famous Colatur Colatur and and and others that
that this is something that I it's it's very hard for me to
say it and I know like when people hear this like, oh, who
are you chutzpah? How could you say such a thing?
I remember there was a another podcast, you know, not as famous
as yours, of course, but there's another podcast that had that
had this debate between an American rabbi and a guy here in
Israel who they called him a rabbi.
He's really not a rabbi. He's just a guy who who's very
gotten very interrogative. He's puts out these videos that,
you know, really bashing American jewelry for not making
aliyah, etcetera, etcetera. He does a very good job by the
way. He let a lot of it is come comes
from my books. He bought all my books and he
loves my books and he just used all the sources that have in my
books. So they had them Tiano on
together and they were debating, you know, why is American
jewelry not making aliyah? And they they brought back and
forth, you know, arguments back and forth until it finally came
to the point where this rabbi from America, who's also very
well known, he's very he's very articulate and he knows he knows
how to how to play the game. And he said, you know, but our
Gadolin to say that we don't have to pick up right now.
And you know, it's too dangerous in certain ways for the the
Neshamas of our kids. They're gonna go off the Derek,
you know, as if everyone in Israel is off the Derek.
But but whatever. And I like was sitting and and
my friend, the other guy was not he didn't answer well enough.
He didn't he really didn't. And, and I was thinking
afterwards how I would answer and I would have answered
Miraglim mamish, just because some Ghodolim are saying that we
shouldn't go back to Eriticia. Remember the partial of The
Mirage. I'm not saying hostage.
I'm not going to say that Rabbi is a mirage.
That rabbi is a mirage. I'm not going to say that, but
I'm just going to say it's, it's food for thought.
Keep in mind that the majority of Ghodolim at that time said we
shouldn't go into Eriticia. And they were wrong.
They were dead wrong. So we have to be very careful.
It's the Yates star, really, really works overtime to get us
to to not come back there. It's Israel.
Do we have time for one more? Do we have time for one more?
I I have a little time. Whatever, it's up to you.
I want it to be too long. No, no, no.
So, So I just wanted to, to get your take on like the, the
current state of Israel, is it a fulfillment of the words of the
prophets? How exactly can we be sure that
the messianic process has begun, meaning the, to align the, the,
the prophets with, with the current state And, and how can
we, how can we see those, the, the markings, the connections
and the markings being so? And I know you brought it up in
the beginning and I wanted to also come full circle and close
it over there. Right.
So we talked about before. It's funny.
I'm glad. I'm glad you got back to it
because I said I told the story of my, of my Rebbe or Rabini
that, you know, the prophets of old were the prophets and they
already told us what it's gonna be like.
But there were two other if you remember.
Then I said there's three, three things I wanna say and I forgot
the other two. So in the book here he quotes 2
beautiful ideas. Number one is from the mayor
Simchavdinsk, the OR Somach Mesha Hoffman, who says, first
of all, he said this is a famous letter where he wrote after the
San Remo conference in 1920, he wrote and since the fear of the
oaths has faded away and we now act with the permission of the
kings, the Mitsuvarez Israel, Yesuvarez Israel has returned to
its place. So that's number one.
That's quoted all the time against the Satmarshita that,
you know, the the oaths are, you know, so important.
Mayor Simcha here is even like to a certain degree, like making
fun of it like this. The fear of the oath is like a
fear people have that we have to be afraid of themselves, right?
But even if, even if you don't, even if he's saying it
seriously, which he probably was, but he's saying that that
doesn't exist anymore. Once the nations gave us
permission, that's gone. You don't have to worry about
that anymore. That's number one.
But then the next paragraph he says, granted at that time the
prophets encourage them with divine prophecy, Now they say
ah, but then they have prophecy. How about now we don't have
prophecy. How do we know?
But who knows? Perhaps just as the destruction
of the second temple took place without prophecy, so to the
cornerstone laying of the third temple will take place without
prophets. Its restoration being similar to
its removal means like a heckish.
If the second temple was destroyed without Naveen, then
the last Naveen were Hagai Sahari Malaki.
At the beginning of the second temple, the end, the second,
there was no nerval anymore. No one said, OK, the, the, the
temple's going to be destroyed. Like your meow at the end of the
first was telling them it's going to be destroyed.
You better, you better repent. That didn't happen at the time
of the second. So maybe it's the same thing's
going to happen when it's at least the cornerstone laying is
going to be also be done without profits.
That's point number one point #2HE quotes the netsieve, which
is even more more impressive then it see, it says we see that
the vine Providence has begun to populate the desolate areas of
the land with its children. He said that's the vine
Providence. You know, that doesn't just
happen that the Jewish people start returning to Aristotle and
repopulating the land since the, and then he said, since this
idea has stirred the Jewish people from from one end of the
earth to the other wherever they are scattered.
And so in other words, it's not like this crazy idea that, you
know, a bunch of small group of people got into, it's everyone
and Zionism took, took off like create like wildfire.
And again, it makes no sense. Makes no sense that all these
secular Jews would get so into this Zionistic idea.
They all want to come and build. I mean, the land was Desa.
The land was filled with swamps, malaria and everything, and
people came to build it. He says that shows that it's
true because it's throughout the, the, the people.
And then he says, and since the voice of the masses is like the
voice of the Almighty speaking through his prophets, we must
follow his voice and trust that Hashem will complete our work.
In other words, what do you mean there's no prophets?
What do you think when the Jewish people as a whole, as a
collective tried to come back there and that, that, that, that
feeling just just like bubbles up within them and they're just
itching to come back there? It's Israel.
Who do you think's doing that? That's Hashem's prophecy.
We're thinking that we're worthy of having a prophet, literally
having a prophet come and speak to us.
We're not worthy of that yet, but Hashem speaks to us through,
through our souls and He makes us want to come back.
I mentioned this before. You know, throughout history, we
never found that. The Jews just decided, let's
just pick up and come back there.
It's Israel. Why all of a sudden in the late
1800s did it happen 'cause that's prophecy.
That itself is prophecy and, and again, going through all the
different, the, the different prophecies that have been
fulfilled, it is so clear. I mean, there's Jewish
sovereignty over the land, right?
That's the Rambam says the number one, and it's also the
Gallara. The number one difference
between Galut and Gu lies when Eretz Israel is once again in
our hands. What is it ain't Bain the Shibud
Malfiot provided we're no longer Mishima Banten the malfiot.
We're no longer you know enslaved to the kings of the of
the world. We are independent and by the
way we're getting more and more dependent independent.
I'm sorry. It used to be to say yeah we're
still dependent on America. BB is Barack Hashan is
disengaging from America no longer dependence on the
American aid in in war. We're gonna, we're slowly but
truly getting closer and closer to really being independent.
And I would also say like people focus too much on how it started
with the secular Zionists, but nobody really saw the where
religious Zionism would become like so big and so influential
and also that, you know, yeah. But the but the level, the
amount of of Torah learning today that's going on in the
land of Israel, whether you're anti Zionist or Zionist, I think
is unprecedented. I think that we and.
The quality and. And not just that I would say
that I think I think the modern state of Israel is the longest,
you know, running Commonwealth, let's call it in history.
This is like the most successful iteration of of the land of
Israel. Maybe I'm wrong, but I see I
don't see that 2. And over 400 years.
No, but what, what I'm saying is that, that, that we, we have,
you know, we've, we had the first temple and then we lost
the temple. I'm saying that this, this
period that we had, whether even if it's not as long, I think we
had the longest span of, let's say, non corrupt and non evil
kings and the kind of things that they had, right?
You understand what I'm saying? I'm saying that this, this, this
period of success that we've had was not interfered by, you know,
some, some foreign leadership that came in or some Abu Dhazar
and all these things. I understand what you're saying.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's true. I mean, even though you know
some of the leaders, we're not the biggest.
Sadiq and I wasn't so happy when they won the elections.
Right. But they're not, they're not no
one into Yeah. No one comes close to Akhav and
Yeravam and Menasha and, you know, killing people in the
streets. I mean, you know, we complain
about about today's leaders, but, you know, thank God,
they're, they're not even close to that.
Exactly. Yes.
We should actually try to have someone.
Karata Tov. Seriously.
Yeah. Oh, that, that's the main thing,
you know? That's the main thing.
You know the famous vort. You know why we're called
Yudhim? Why not Yusrailim?
Why is a Jew called the Yudhim? Udi is Yuda is one of the 12
tribes. Why we called Yuda?
Because Why is Yuda called Yuda? Because Leia said apam odet
Hashem, I will give thanks to Hashem.
That's why you who is from the word hodaya.
That's what Judaism is all about.
We have to give thanks and, and, and there are people who going
back to this, you know, e-mail I got, there are people who will
do everything in their power to try to prove that there's
nothing to thank Hashem for. Nothing happened in the six day
war. Nothing has happened in, in the
United Israel. Nothing positive has happened
that we have any reason to say thank you to Hashem for.
It's, it's, it's terrible. It's really, it's, it's mind
boggling. It's, it's, I don't understand
it. It's sad, very sad.
Thank you so much. This was incredible.
I wanna you know the one take away not one there's many
takeaways, but the the the one take away that that that really
like. I feel if we could sum up one
thing that would that would help all Jews come to understand this
perspective in a much better way is really just to be more
mushrash in Tanakh. If Jews really learn Tanakh
properly and really like even the way the Tanak has learned,
especially in, in, in some of the, and I'm not saying this
derogatory, but but it's true. It's, it's almost like they read
Tanak Midrashiki. And so the the IT, it, it
doesn't, it doesn't Tanak itself doesn't really speak.
It's almost like like there's what's the word I'm looking.
For the reading it through a lens through through, let's say
even a Talmudic lens in many ways.
Talmudic lens, but it's basically, it's a, it's a, it's
a selective version of how to, how to, how to read instead of
really just reading Tanakh and just, and just letting it speak
to you, letting it, let it let the ideas and the history and
the, and the, and the, and the, the wisdom really just come in.
Because if you do and then you come and we go through all what
we went through today. It's very simple and very
intuitive. There's nothing, you know, we
ask questions and we go into Tanakh and we see the answers.
It's, it's not complicated. It shouldn't be complicated, but
it's become complicated. So really, you know, we all of
us, including myself, have to really, you know, be more
determined in in learning Tanakh.
And I think if that happens, then naturally all these things
will will will just kind of put put together by itself.
And I think that's why many Israelis do understand this,
because there was an emphasis of learning Tanakh as a, you know,
it's part of our collective memory.
It's our history. Even if they didn't believe in
it per SE, it became a part of the, you know, the culture,
building the culture. Of my father was that he learnt
in Tikhon in Israel and Tanakh is what he knew and when.
And if if I went to my dad right now and I'd ask him all these
questions, he would answer me this from the same points
because that that's what you know what I mean?
That's why I always point this out that you, you notice all
these, all these stories that a lot of them are coming out now
on all these beautiful podcasts of these converts to Judaism,
right? All these unbelievable stories.
And so many of them moved to Israel.
Why do converts move to Israel Like it's it's a double pursuit
to them. It's so obvious to them because
the last thing I say, because I I read Tanak, I read the Hamish.
It's like so obvious. It's like throughout the Hamish
and one of my books I didn't met one of the few I didn't mention
is Eritish on the parish. I have a book about literally
Eric Disrael is in every single parish in the Hamish.
And certainly when you go to Tanakh, there's no question
about it. So, but as opposed to somebody
who who was brought up from right, he already has all those,
you know, Hakmalogia to to get a get around it is saying no.
He's already preprogrammed to see it in a certain way and
then. They don't see those Kip chuto,
that's all. Like, you know, using their
thumbs. They're using too much, too much
swaras. Just read the text.
Too much pill pool. Tanakh is not a pill pool.
Tanakh is is is the word of God. You're supposed to read it and
it's supposed to speak to you. Naturally, that's what it is.
Right. And these commerce just read it
as Chuto and they don't have that background of pill pool.
So that's why they just see it and they say, of course we have
to move to Israel. There's no question about it.
This is, it's such an important topic and really thank you so
much for coming on because it's, it's foundational and, and we
hope that Bezrat Hashem, one day we will be dancing in Israel
together and, and just, you know, keep doing what you're
doing and. And before we go, can you tell
the audience where you they can find?
You in your books. So good, good.
Baruch Hashem, this is the first time I can actually finally say
my books are on Amazon. I worked like for a bunch of
months and I put it on, you know, print on demand.
So most of my books, most of my books are on Amazon.
That's Erzel and the parsha, this book question of
redemption. They, they, I yelled A shocker,
which I didn't get to, but you know, that's the one that I
eventually got back to or Philber's book.
It's called the Dawn of redemption.
I think you just look, you have to look up Moshe Lichtman on, on
Amazon and it'll give him the five books that are there.
And also everybody in Smake, although I don't sell it,
someone else sells it on Amazon. So just just get it that way.
That's the easiest way, unless you're in Israel, if you're in
Israel, so you can get it through me for cheaper.
All right, yeah, I also have a website where all my books are,
but I, I it's called Torad toradsione.com, Torad Zion
oneword.com. You can read all about the books
and then and then you can go to Amazon if you live in America
and buy it on Amazon. Tiscalumitzvot and thank you so
much. We really.
Appreciate it. Thank you for having me.