1 00:00:16,309 --> 00:00:21,310 Welcome to Mind Escape. Are you ready? 2 00:00:24,550 --> 00:00:28,470 Are you ready to escape your mind? 3 00:00:48,290 --> 00:00:51,690 Hello Mind Escapees, if you have not already, please go check out 4 00:00:51,690 --> 00:00:54,210 my other channel Masters of Rhetoric. 5 00:00:54,210 --> 00:00:56,690 I will have the link down below. It's also part of the Mind 6 00:00:56,690 --> 00:00:59,970 escape link tree link. It's something I'm very 7 00:00:59,970 --> 00:01:04,650 passionate about where I dissect the origins of Western thought 8 00:01:04,650 --> 00:01:08,760 through the pre Socratic thinkers all the way to 9 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:10,520 Aristotle. And I'm probably going to go 10 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:12,280 beyond that as well at some point. 11 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,880 But right now I'm focused on the Ionian physicist all the way to 12 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,560 Aristotle. So please support Masters of 13 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:22,240 Rhetoric. Go check out our YouTube channel 14 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:24,320 and subscribe. There's tons of shorts on there 15 00:01:24,320 --> 00:01:27,640 already as well as episodes, and there's a bunch of episodes 16 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:30,520 lined up. I'm on all audio platforms with 17 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:32,160 it. And if you're on TikTok, 18 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:35,760 Instagram, Axe, or any of the social media platforms, please 19 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:37,560 go check out our page on there as well. 20 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:39,920 I'd really appreciate it. Thank you. 21 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:44,760 Tonight we have an amazing episode with friend of the show 22 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:48,520 and author Matthew Palomeri. If you don't know who Matthew 23 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,000 is, please go check out her previous episodes. 24 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:55,360 We have some on our YouTube channel and our audio platforms 25 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:59,560 as well as some vaulted in our Patreon, so please go check 26 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,520 those out. Matthew is a wealth of knowledge 27 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:07,080 when it comes to everything psychedelic, psychedelia, 28 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:10,000 ayahuasca. He's also an amazing writer who 29 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:14,200 writes non fiction and fiction and his fictional works are very 30 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,600 interesting and I highly recommend them. 31 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:21,440 He has a new book coming out called Drug Wars, A New Dope 32 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:27,280 which releases on November 12th. He's just a really all around 33 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,920 great guy to talk to and he's always got interesting insights 34 00:02:30,920 --> 00:02:33,760 into things. And this is a conversation that 35 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:37,520 I always love having when I know he's going to come on because I 36 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:41,120 can just pick his brain on the creative process and being a 37 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,840 writer and how that kind of plays into the whole psychedelic 38 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,000 experience thing and how descriptive detail plays into 39 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,240 it. So please go check out his 40 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:51,880 books. I have the link down below all 41 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,920 the way at the bottom. He's got, let's see here how 42 00:02:54,920 --> 00:02:57,840 many books he's got. He's working on his 23rd book. 43 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,800 So this is not somebody that does this in their spare time. 44 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:05,200 He is a professional writer, so please support him and I hope 45 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,520 you enjoy the show. All right, Matthew, welcome back 46 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:10,920 on the show. It's been a little bit, but 47 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,920 you've probably been on the show more than most people. 48 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:17,760 I want to say. You're probably near the top of 49 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,360 people we've had on the most, and it's always a great 50 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:24,240 conversation. You're always in the midst of 51 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,520 writing some new awesome books. So welcome back. 52 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:30,920 Thanks for having me. I, I hope I haven't bored 53 00:03:30,920 --> 00:03:34,000 anybody yet and I hope I'm not going to overexpose myself 54 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,280 'cause you know, you can get arrested for that, right? 55 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:44,720 Last time we spoke, we were talking about, you know, your, 56 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:49,160 your new book, I believe it was The Hummingbird Whisperer. 57 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,480 And now you're, we just were talking off air a little bit and 58 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:57,840 you get you're working on a new book on the history of ayahuasca 59 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:02,360 and the the connection to the tribes and everything like that. 60 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,520 Can you give us a little bit of maybe a little taste of what's 61 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,240 to come with that? Yeah, thanks. 62 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:10,720 Thanks for having me on, by the way. 63 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,360 I always love being here and good intelligent conversation. 64 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:19,480 So I researched ayahuasca for 10 years before I found it. 65 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:25,000 And since then, I've also been working directly with it for 25 66 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,240 years. I've been to the jungle tons of 67 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,480 times. I've done. 68 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,920 I'm losing track. I think I've done 1410 day 69 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:40,200 ayahuasca dietes, plant diets. I've been eating ceremonies for 70 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:41,560 years. I've worked in different 71 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:43,360 traditions. At the peak of it, I was doing 72 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:48,080 it 30 * a year. Now a lot of my mentors have 73 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,400 passed away and all that, and I'm carrying the torch. 74 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,240 And I realized that all this research and study I've done, 75 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:57,880 much of which people don't really I'm not aware of, that 76 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:01,840 was time for me to write the definitive book about ayahuasca 77 00:05:01,840 --> 00:05:04,800 based on all of my research and my personal knowledge and 78 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:09,960 experience up with it, because I want people to go into it with 79 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,920 their eyes wide open. You know, there's all, there's, 80 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:14,920 there's the woo woo stories. And you hear every once in 81 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:19,000 awhile somebody died because of something, you know, and it's, 82 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,160 it's not for everybody, but if you're going to do it, you 83 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,400 should have your eyes wide open and be fully aware of 84 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:26,120 everything. So I really want to bring all 85 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,600 that to the forefront. It's one of the reasons I do so 86 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,160 many interviews because I want people to be go into your, blow 87 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,280 your brains out if you want, but have your eyes open and know 88 00:05:35,280 --> 00:05:39,080 what you're doing as opposed to going in ignorant and, and 89 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,800 ending up not coming back, you know, and and losing your life. 90 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:50,480 So I'm going all the way back to prehistory and prehistory 91 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:52,600 because it's prehistoric. Nobody knows how long it's been 92 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:57,080 around for. But prehistory begins with with 93 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,960 mythologies. You start because that's how far 94 00:05:59,960 --> 00:06:03,400 back it goes. You know, whether Jesus did this 95 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,520 or that or Jesus is a lie or wasn't in coming back and all 96 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:12,200 that stuff as its basis in myth because that's how far back it 97 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,600 goes. And, you know, we don't really 98 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:15,920 know. And, you know, you know, a lot 99 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,160 of times one culture will pick up the other culture's myth and 100 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:24,880 kind of slap a new coat of paint on it, you know, and send it out 101 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:26,880 again. You know, it's like, like a lot 102 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,000 of the Egyptians did, you know, the the kings would come and the 103 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,960 new guy would come in and he'd wipe out all the stuff from the 104 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,680 first guy and then put his name on it and take credit, you know, 105 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:41,120 like that. Anyway, I want people to be 106 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:44,880 aware. So I go from all that and then I 107 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:49,360 go into the first Westerners who were involved, which we, we were 108 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,200 talking about, you know, Richard Spruce from England originally 109 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,720 and then Richard Evans, Schulte's and Schulte said, Wade 110 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:59,840 Davis and Mark Plotkin among other people as proteges. 111 00:06:59,840 --> 00:07:03,240 And then that got into the whole Ginsburg and boroughs, the Yahoo 112 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,160 letters, if anybody knows about that history. 113 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,200 Anyway, I go bring all that up and then I get into the 114 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,200 beginnings of the first churches because originally there were no 115 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,280 churches. It was like tribes out in the 116 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:16,080 jungle doing it and that was their thing. 117 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:20,520 So I am have all of the history of the churches and how they 118 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:24,640 evolved in the beginning up to present day and the legalities 119 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:26,200 of it. And then now what's going on 120 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,040 with this big outburst of ayahuasca churches, They're 121 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:33,480 everywhere now setting the precedent of, of freedom of 122 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:37,680 religion over Drug Enforcement. You know, that that whole thing. 123 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,280 And then I, and then I bring it even up more to modern times. 124 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,280 So I, I have a long questionnaire that people can 125 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:49,960 take to realize all the things about ayahuasca, the diet and 126 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,720 that this is dangerous. And that's dangerous if with the 127 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,920 Mao inhibitors and if you're mixing it with other things, 128 00:07:55,920 --> 00:08:02,480 particularly antidepressants, SSR is you're pre loading your 129 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:05,920 synapsis, whatever with serotonin and then you're taking 130 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,880 more and you can go into convulsions and you can die. 131 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:13,160 I mean, that's a we've. Talked about two like toe or 132 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:17,840 Brugmancia, the adding in the datura into the mixture. 133 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:22,000 I mean, I datura on its own is pretty, you know, nightmarish. 134 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,720 So I can't imagine adding that into the mix. 135 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:32,400 We did it for a couple of years, some years back, but we only put 136 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:38,280 like two or three leaves in like a big brew and I could feel the 137 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:42,880 energy and have the sense of it, if that makes any sense. 138 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,640 But after that little bit of time of experimenting, the 139 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:51,520 shaman said we don't need that. We got chacruna, Chacruna for 140 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,120 plenty of colors and we just don't need the extra stuff. 141 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,280 But it was a worthwhile experiment. 142 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:02,520 It's like, you know, I may be done, I may be done ayahuasca 143 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:04,320 during the day like a dozen times. 144 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,960 I prefer it at night, but it's worthwhile experience to do it 145 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:14,040 during the day. Just like one time way back, I 146 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,880 went to a weekend of ceremonies and I didn't take, I was a 147 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,480 sitter and took care of everybody and I wanted to learn 148 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:20,960 that side of it too. You know what I mean? 149 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:24,520 So I'm going to go through all that and bring it up to present 150 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:29,560 day and then sort of safe practices and I'm probably going 151 00:09:29,560 --> 00:09:31,720 to do a little section on each of the plants. 152 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:35,920 When you do the 10 day dieto, you work with another plant or 153 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,640 plants. So I'm going to do like, you 154 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:44,360 know, Bo bin sana chuchuwasi ushbawasha, una de gato waiusa 155 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:48,440 chitik tsenango, all those plants I'm going to do I'm going 156 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:50,200 to do almost like what Sasha Shogun did. 157 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:53,560 I'm going to do a thing on the plants. 158 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:58,600 This is what the plan is. Genus species, not overdone. 159 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:03,800 But here's a scientific, here's what they call it, and then 160 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,800 here's my experience with it. You know, Sasha did that, and P 161 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:12,520 Col. and T Col. One of the interesting things 162 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:23,080 about ayahuasca is that all of the knowledge you get is purely 163 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:27,040 subjective. You can read all the books in 164 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:29,840 the world written by everybody in all the galaxies about 165 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,080 ayahuasca and you're still not going to know what it's like 166 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:38,720 until you do it right. So it, by its very nature, it 167 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,920 makes the, the book itself subjective. 168 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:47,200 So there's a little bit of personal aspect to it as opposed 169 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,480 to being like strict, I'm the authority, I'm the teacher, I'm 170 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,920 the professor. And you know, A = B, you know, 171 00:10:54,560 --> 00:10:58,520 no, this is in my head. So, you know, I mean, maybe it's 172 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:02,320 subject to misinterpretation, but here's, here's my 35 years 173 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:04,280 of research and experience for what it's worth. 174 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,400 And you know, as I mentioned, I've been leading ceremonies for 175 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:12,320 close to 20 years. So I've seen almost everything. 176 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,200 And I want people to be educated and open and aware of what it 177 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:17,600 really is. What can it really do? 178 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:22,280 What what can it not really do you know, where does it come 179 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:24,320 from? Like you said, That's always 180 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,560 fascinating me. How the hell you go in the 181 00:11:26,560 --> 00:11:27,840 jungle, everything looks the same. 182 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:31,320 I mean, it's all green, you know, And how do they know of 183 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:35,480 these two plants? So I, you know, I got a couple 184 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:41,240 of quirky old mythology stories from some of the tribes. 185 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:48,600 But there, there are numerous combinations of plants that they 186 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:50,480 use down there aside from the Ayahuasca. 187 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,800 And there are numerous variations of the ayahuasca 188 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:59,080 brew. The standard one is, is 189 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:04,600 ayahuasca vine with Shakruna psychotrioveridis and 190 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:10,120 Ayahuasca's Banisteriopsis copy. And that mixture. 191 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:18,240 And ayahuasca is the power and Shakruna is the light. 192 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:22,320 That's what they say. Yeah, because the power 193 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:27,720 potentuates the light to come. Because without the without the 194 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:31,040 vine, you don't get the visions anyway. 195 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,400 No, no. I I'm psyched for that book to 196 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:35,880 come out. Like I said, we were talking 197 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,080 offline. I mentioned Andrew Gallmore's 198 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:40,760 book Death by Astonishment. You know, he's the first few 199 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:43,720 chapters are about, you know, the history a little bit, you 200 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:46,560 know, the Richard Spruce, the William Burroughs, the, yeah. 201 00:12:46,560 --> 00:12:49,640 Hey, letters, all that. But I, I, you know, I would like 202 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,440 to know more from like the indigenous side of things too, 203 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,240 you know, like where, where did they come up with it? 204 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,080 What is their myths or their history say about it? 205 00:12:58,080 --> 00:12:59,840 That's what I'm gonna. Have. 206 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:02,520 Yeah. No, I'm, I'm super pumped for 207 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:05,480 that and obviously we'll have you back on when that. 208 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,160 Oh, yeah, yeah, When that one pops because it's, you know, 209 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,800 like I'm a writer. But in many respects, ayahuasca 210 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:19,040 has become my life's work. Certainly my passion for alter 211 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,000 states go back as far as I can remember. 212 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,840 Even then, can get myself dizzy as a little kid until I almost 213 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:28,800 puked, right? All of that and all that 214 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,040 experience has come to bear. And the other thing that's come 215 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:34,840 to bear on a lot of the shamanic stuff and energy is the fact 216 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,240 that I have a background in computers and electronics. 217 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:43,800 Electronics is the study of energy and shamanism is about 218 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:49,760 mastering energy and drinking ayahuasca is about mastering the 219 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:54,000 energies of your thoughts and your, you know, getting your 220 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,960 psyche turned on its head and figuring out how to navigate it 221 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,680 and make sense out of it. And what what can it show you 222 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:04,480 from seeing things. And, you know, such a radically 223 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:07,160 altered perspective from what we consider to be baseline. 224 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,000 So I want people to be aware. You know, it drives me nuts when 225 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:15,480 I see some of the Hollywood crap with all the how they make 226 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,480 Ayahuasca look. And, you know, God, I saw this 227 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:24,800 one show and this guy's sitting with a guru and he's got a 228 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:28,600 freaking a hookah pipe and he's talking to his friend. 229 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:30,880 You know, I'm doing an Iowa's concession with my guru. 230 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:35,280 And I'm like, oh God, you know, those people don't know. 231 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:39,000 So I want people to be aware, you know, awaken aware. 232 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,560 I think it's powerful medicine. I think it's needed now more 233 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:47,160 than ever and also has great potential for abuse if you don't 234 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:49,440 pay attention to what you're doing and who you're working 235 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:53,360 with. And, you know, there have been 236 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,000 some of the deaths that have come or, or from people working 237 00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:02,840 too much with tobacco, you know, in terms of ayahuasca because I 238 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:04,320 worked with a tobacco shaman once. 239 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,920 So likes likes tobacco, snuff or what? 240 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,160 No, so I've been doing this or not, but they use nicotine in, 241 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:16,800 in bug poison. And if you take high doses of 242 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,400 nicotine, the effect it has, what it does in the bugs and 243 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:22,480 what it does to you is it fills your lungs with fluid and you 244 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:24,840 and you, you basically kind of drown. 245 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,520 So there have been a few cases of people who are working with 246 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:34,240 tobacco who I remember one in particular I was following some 247 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:38,200 few years back and I was a younger woman and, and, but she 248 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:42,560 was like very thin. She weighed like 98 lbs. 249 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,480 And So what they gave her for the dosage for the tobacco 250 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,720 overwhelmed her. You know, I had another friend I 251 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:55,760 was studying shamanic stuff with and he did one of their tobacco 252 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,760 faster cleanser dietas and his kidneys got infected. 253 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:06,040 So there's been a lot of mischiefs. 254 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,600 You know, the other thing that drives me crazy is I see 255 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:12,800 sometimes come to us for our shamanic spiritual weekend. 256 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,880 We're going to do 5 meo on Friday night in ayahuasca on 257 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:20,120 Saturday, and then we're going to do mushrooms on Sunday and 258 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,520 you know, maybe we'll smoke some more toad on Monday. 259 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:24,280 I mean, I don't think it's right. 260 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:27,480 It's not the way. It's overkill. 261 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:31,960 Do one thing, stick with it. Stick with the old ways that are 262 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,160 tried and true through millennia. 263 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:38,080 You know, all this stuff like, you know, you might as well go 264 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,280 to a drug store. Hey man, what do you want back 265 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,480 in the day, What do you want? Uppers, Downers, coke, smack, 266 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:45,480 acid. What do you want? 267 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:47,840 We got it right here, you know, step right up, right? 268 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,360 It's too much. It's too, it's like, it's like, 269 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:54,400 oh, this is good. I guess if I take a bunch of 270 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,240 more, everything else, it's going to be better. 271 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,200 I'm going to be enlightened because I took so much shit, 272 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:03,440 right? Yeah, I think, I think the 273 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:10,839 macros always the way to go if you have truly like a real 274 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:15,560 transcended experience or something awe inspiring or, you 275 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:17,920 know, an experience like that on a macro dose, whether it's 276 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:21,359 psilocybin or ayahuasca, whatever, you don't want to do 277 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,880 it again for a while. Like they're like you want to 278 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:26,720 sin on it, you want to marinate on it. 279 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:28,840 You want to yeah, you want to integrate it. 280 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,000 Yeah, you want to integrate it into your life. 281 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:35,600 But you know, there is people that take things too far and 282 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,080 they do, you know, one time isn't enough or it's, and it's 283 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,960 not even like they're physically, you know, the 284 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:43,520 compounds are physically addictive. 285 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,760 It's just that they're, you know, I don't know they're. 286 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:51,440 They're greedy. I've seen people die because of 287 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,400 that. You know, it's something that 288 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,880 really needs to be respected. I never thought first, Jesus, I 289 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,840 went, I did everything when I was younger and then in my early 290 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:06,680 20s, I took a break. I was a vegetarian for 23 years 291 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:09,360 and I went totally baseline for 13 years. 292 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:11,480 I wouldn't even take an aspirin if I had a headache. 293 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:17,280 I thought, I want to clear the decks and see things clear. 294 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,520 You know, listen to me. I'm being redone it. 295 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:25,440 Anyway, when I first read Terence Mckenna's Food of the 296 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:30,680 Gods, and I thought spirituality and altered states, are you 297 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,400 shitting me? And then I went and I got his 298 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,880 the book that him and Dennis wrote, the Austin Orrick, the 299 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:43,440 mushroom one and undercover. No, the other one. 300 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:46,560 Mushroom Growers guide by Awesome. 301 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:48,920 That's what. They said but it was those guys 302 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:54,320 I spent 1000 bucks this is back in the mid 90s and I bought all 303 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,880 the shit and it took me three tries and fails. 304 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:01,680 So I finally grew my own mushrooms and started taking 305 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:07,600 them with, with a spiritual intention as opposed to I'm 306 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:09,800 going to get fucked up. What's this going to do to me, 307 00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:15,640 you know, with that intention and started having some kind of 308 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,920 magical experiences. And then once I started doing 309 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:23,920 that, eventually I won't go into the whole story unless you want 310 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:28,080 me to offer an attention. But I found out about the Antio 311 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:32,680 Botany seminars and I went. The first one was in San 312 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:38,560 Francisco in 96. And I went and I met the tribe 313 00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:46,280 and I met Anna and Sasha Shogun. And at the time Sasha was 314 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:48,840 getting hassled by the government for publishing PCAL 315 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,000 and TCAL. And I don't have any money, but 316 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:55,240 I gave Anne like 5-10 bucks, maybe 20. 317 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:56,520 I don't have any, but I just dare. 318 00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,520 She wrote me a two page letter, handwritten, thanking me. 319 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:03,760 And then from then I started going more and more and more and 320 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,080 more. And got into the whole thing, 321 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,520 you know, and then and then I was already fascinated with 322 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:14,440 shamanism, altered state, spirituality, shamanism. 323 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:15,760 You mean it could not be the same thing. 324 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:17,520 You shouldn't be. Wow. 325 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,040 I'm in heaven, right? And you know, I was taking 326 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:25,880 anthropology courses and you you talked about the Indians point 327 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,640 of view, my historical novel, my first published novel. 328 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,120 And without evil, it's about first contact between the 329 00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:34,160 Jesuits and the Indians in South America. 330 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:35,760 But it's told from the Indians point of view. 331 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,640 You know, that's the stuff that's always drawing me. 332 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,720 The indigenous, like you said, the the indigenous knowledge 333 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:46,800 that where it comes from. What do they know? 334 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,480 How do they know? You know, how do they know so 335 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,560 much about neurochemistry and Physiology? 336 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:57,200 You know, and you have all now this, you know, modern day 337 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,680 quantum physics, right? Shaman's like, well, you guys 338 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:04,520 been the past two millennia. I mean, come on, get real, 339 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:10,040 right? So it's all fascinating. 340 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:14,640 And I think that the need for it is more intense now more than 341 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:16,080 ever. You know, we're all, we're cut 342 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:20,560 off with technology and, you know, the cell phones and AI and 343 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,320 all that stuff that takes us away from just being outside 344 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:28,760 and, you know, walking barefoot in the grass and hanging out 345 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:30,240 with the tree. You know what I mean? 346 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:35,520 We're culturally so far removed from that, even Bitcoin and all 347 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:39,640 that, you know? Yeah. 348 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:44,840 I think, well, I think, you know, this new frontier around 349 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:49,560 with technology, I think it'll be you'll be getting ahead if 350 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:53,520 you're able to integrate all of it, if you're able to stay 351 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:57,920 grounded in nature, but also understand the advantages of 352 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,280 using these powerful tools as well. 353 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,720 You know, just like a bat, like anything else, balance 354 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,280 everything in moderation, everything in balance. 355 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,760 You know, I don't think we need to say no technology, no this or 356 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:11,600 no no. That's impossible. 357 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,960 No, and I, and I know people there, I, there are people that 358 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,480 are like that, that think that like, oh, this is going to be 359 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:18,960 the end of, you know, everything. 360 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,720 And, you know, who knows what the future will bring? 361 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:26,400 But I, I will say, I think when you look at this paradigm that 362 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,720 we're in, that's shifting, I think it's important, like you 363 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,440 said, though, to stay kind of grounded in what got us here 364 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:38,080 and, and based on our Physiology and our biology and all that. 365 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:42,720 So yeah, I think it's, it's these things are powerful tools 366 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,840 and to understand them in the history of them and, and, you 367 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,040 know, give them proper reverence, that's, that's 368 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:50,720 definitely the way to go in my opinion. 369 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,000 Yeah, I mean, it's not, you know, one of the reasons I wrote 370 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,040 that historical novel is because I saw their culture basically 371 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:01,000 disappearing. So I did tons of research. 372 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,120 I researched that book for 2 1/2 years. 373 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,600 And I like to think that I saved the culture, at least in print, 374 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,320 you know, so people know that hey there, there was this way of 375 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:12,960 being in the world and looking at the world. 376 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:18,280 That's not anymore, you know, because there's always something 377 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,160 to learn. You know, history does repeat 378 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:25,440 itself over and over again. But you know, it's interesting, 379 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,880 too. I said a little while ago, you 380 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:30,960 know, one of the keys to ayahuasca is learning to 381 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:36,480 navigate, for lack of better words, extreme psychological 382 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:41,480 states, right? And almost almost more important 383 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,800 or maybe even more important is integrating those things back 384 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,880 into your normal everyday life, right? 385 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:53,440 So with the way technology is shifting and changing and 386 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,640 accelerating right now, it ties in with what you you, you were 387 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:02,520 also just saying that it's about navigating it, learning to 388 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:07,680 survive in a world with AI. And you know, to me, AI is 389 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:09,240 eating the world. That's a whole nother story. 390 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:13,120 Don't get me going on that. No, I mean just here's, here's 391 00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:16,040 an example real quick. So for since I've been, I've 392 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,000 been doing mind escape now for over 8 years. 393 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:19,520 I used to do with my cousin Maurice. 394 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,280 He got busy, he's got his own business, you know, he has 395 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,960 enough time for this and, and I respect that. 396 00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:30,440 And then I started seeking out like, you know, putting feelers 397 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,120 out. Does anybody want to help out or 398 00:24:32,120 --> 00:24:35,440 be a producer or help me with this or that or whatever? 399 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,200 And there's been a few people along the way, but nobody 400 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:42,800 actually offering any, you know, I'm kind of like a, you know, I 401 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:47,760 have OCDA very particular, very detail oriented and things like. 402 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,800 That you have refined taste. You're not OCD, you have refined 403 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,800 taste. I I really do have OCD though, 404 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,800 for real. But yeah, this in terms of 405 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,240 taste, yes, I would say refined taste as well. 406 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:01,760 But so chat GPTI think, you know, in gronks for some, some 407 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:06,320 things they offer like assistance from some, you know, 408 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,520 like they provide. I I, I'm not using them to ask 409 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,040 questions. I mean, helping, you know, that 410 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,200 I'm using them to help organize my own thoughts and my own 411 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:18,320 things so I can keep on track with certain things and not get 412 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,840 completely like lost in my own research and my own thoughts and 413 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:24,640 things like that. So I do think that there is 414 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,600 something powerful to it. I think if you're just asking it 415 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,040 questions all day long, yeah, you're not really using your own 416 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:31,320 brain power. There might be something 417 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,680 negative about that. But if you're using it to help, 418 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,080 you know, you're integrating it into a creative endeavor. 419 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,360 You're integrating it into and not making it do all the work, 420 00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:44,480 but just helping, you know, use it as a tool to help you. 421 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,600 I think they're going to be something powerful to that. 422 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:52,560 It has its uses by my. This is my personal perspective 423 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:58,400 as a creator. To me, I've been cultivating my 424 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:03,880 craft all my life and I'm going, I've just been going through it 425 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,760 with this book. I go through it with every book. 426 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,960 You find a problem that you need to solve and you wrestle with it 427 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:16,040 and you're miserable with it and you go to bed and plug it into 428 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:20,480 your brain and you wake up and you sometimes I could spend, I 429 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:25,040 could spend 4 days trying to figure out a paragraph, but I'll 430 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:29,720 tell you what, when that subconscious delivers, there 431 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,160 ain't nothing like that magical what? 432 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:33,960 And Oh my God. And then it's like, holy Jesus, 433 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:35,360 that's brilliant. Where did that come from? 434 00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:37,840 Right, right. And you're really dialed in and 435 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:42,240 you're like channeling and you, because the whole idea of the 436 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,360 process is learning to work and program your subconscious. 437 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:52,920 So for me, that struggle and it always it, it's a miserable 438 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:57,880 struggle and it always delivers and it always delivers in a big 439 00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:58,920 way. It's, you know, it's like 440 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:00,280 bidding your head against the wall, right? 441 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,360 It feels so good when you stop, right when it comes and, and 442 00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:05,800 sometimes it's just one word or the tweak of one sentence. 443 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,960 It solves this whole big problem and it's so rewarding because 444 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:10,680 all this other stuff comes out behind it. 445 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,240 And for me, the AI stuff takes that away. 446 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,560 I'd rather suffer. I look at myself as like, 447 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:23,600 instead of all the stuff that the AI and all that, I'm like an 448 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,440 old school Craftsman with hand tools. 449 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,080 I got a hammer and a chisel and I got a sandpaper. 450 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,480 And I'm not going to use power tools. 451 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:33,680 Yeah, you're a. Wordsmith. 452 00:27:34,360 --> 00:27:36,960 Yeah, I'm a wordsmith, so. And I don't want to hear what 453 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:38,920 you have to say, how you think it should sound. 454 00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:41,200 I could give a shit. I wanted to sound this way. 455 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,280 And and you keep telling me you're going to help me. 456 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,440 You're a pain in the ass. Get out of my way. 457 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,440 You're distracting me. I got work to do. 458 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:48,320 Get out of here. Right? 459 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:50,440 So that's my way. But like. 460 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,320 We have people use people use AI to write scripts and books and. 461 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:56,360 Things, that's what I was going to. 462 00:27:56,360 --> 00:27:59,080 Say that's, that's what I, I mean, I'm, I'm a kind of against 463 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:00,640 that. Like so to your point, but like 464 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,960 I said, like, you know, making lists or organizing thoughts, I 465 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:05,880 think that's different. But what you're talking about I 466 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:07,880 agree with. I don't if you're having to do 467 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,760 creative work for you, I think that that you're missing the 468 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,920 point to your point. Yeah, exactly. 469 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,000 But like, like I was reading one thing they did with the AI, they 470 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:21,520 found out I'm making, I'm paraphrasing here, but there was 471 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:27,520 a certain kind of cotton, cotton plant disease, no soybeans. 472 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,640 I think it was soybean disease that came and they plugged all 473 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,360 that stuff in there. And they can go to go to the 474 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:39,240 chat GP or any one of them and say they have my soy plants, 475 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,040 they have this, this and this and come back out with the exact 476 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:43,680 answer. It's this disease. 477 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,120 You need to give it this. No, it solves all the problems 478 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,280 because they can program them all in. 479 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:55,360 But to me though, it's human nature. 480 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,960 It's just, it's getting abused. You have these now, chat GP or 481 00:28:59,960 --> 00:29:05,360 not, whatever, AI suicides and all the, the slop they say and 482 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,360 it gives you wrong answers. Somebody plugged me into it and 483 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,920 it said I was a renowned writing teacher from Schenectady, NY. 484 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,160 I'm from Boston, right? So there was a lot of. 485 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,960 So it'll tell you what you want basically. 486 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,320 But I do agree there are uses for it that are practical in 487 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:30,000 terms of organizational type skills, but get it out of the 488 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:31,280 eye. So I was going to mention 489 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:34,520 Lorenzo from the Psychedelic Salon. 490 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:37,880 He's he and I real time. Obviously, I'm going to help 491 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,360 help him start that podcast. He's writing books and he's 492 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:45,040 using the AI to figure out where he's going to go with his plot. 493 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,840 I can't do that. I had the whole process and the 494 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,360 struggle and this amazing, the surprise of what comes out. 495 00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:58,600 Nothing beats that. I'd live for that. 496 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,720 That's the whole thing, as Stephen King used to call it. 497 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,000 He probably still does cause it falling into the page. 498 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,000 You know, you're staring at a blank page and then the words 499 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,920 start to come and then next thing you know you look up in 500 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,280 like 4 hours of passing. You got like 4 good pages, 501 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,640 right? And you're just, you're in that 502 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,360 writing's my favorite authored state. 503 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,400 No, I, I think you're on the money with, you know, your take 504 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,000 on it. I agree with everything you just 505 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:29,320 said. And I, you know, I look like I 506 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:33,520 said, I've tried implementing other people into this podcast 507 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,920 and having them help in different ways and stuff like 508 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:37,760 that. And nobody could ever really 509 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,880 help in any meaningful way that I needed. 510 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,480 But ChatGPT can. So like, you know, and, and 511 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,040 they're not writing scripts for me. 512 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,920 They're not doing anything other than organizing, creating SEO 513 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,120 descriptions and things like that. 514 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,480 And you know, things that it can, you know, if you can look 515 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,040 up keywords and tag words and like, that's, that's what I'm 516 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,320 talking about, using it as a tool to look up other online 517 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,600 things, not create, you know, like I'm a musician. 518 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,040 We were talking offline. I'm all about analog, like all 519 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,920 my guitars and amps and pedals and everything's analog. 520 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,920 The music at the intro, that's all analog, you know, like that. 521 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:19,960 That's, that's, that's I'm all about that. 522 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:24,000 But I do think that there can be some integration with it 523 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,920 depending on what it is. So IA 100% agree with you. 524 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:31,600 If don't use it for, if you're a creative person, don't use it to 525 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,080 create. Maybe use it if, when it comes 526 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,520 time to publish or whatever you know, or something along those 527 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,680 lines where it's, you know, helping you figure out stuff or 528 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,080 maybe a bibliography or whatever the case or something like that. 529 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,800 I one of my fans turned me on to this book. 530 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,160 I don't know if you can see this or not. 531 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,680 Yeah, I can see it. I'll just hold it up for a 532 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:03,440 second. I'll read from it it's Ways of 533 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:09,440 being by a guy, James Bridal, and it says it's animals, 534 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,800 plants, machines to search for a planetary intelligence. 535 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,400 It's brilliant. It gets into the whole AI thing 536 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,520 and then the AI of the OR just being aware of intelligences of 537 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,320 other things. Like just because plants don't 538 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,360 act like us doesn't mean they're not intelligent. 539 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,160 They're just intelligent in different ways. 540 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:37,520 So it gets into all that and AI as we know it and then other 541 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:43,960 intelligences and how we're all sharing the same space, so to 542 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:45,400 speak. It's really brilliant book. 543 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,240 It's it's a wonderful perspective. 544 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,040 Check it out. That was a big book too. 545 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,520 How many pages is that thing? Yeah, it's only 300. 546 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:59,600 I don't not counting the the appendix and bibliography and 547 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:04,200 all that, it's like 312 pages. But I mean, it's really, really 548 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:08,240 well done. Yeah, no, I'll have to check 549 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,920 that out for sure. And it'll be interesting to see 550 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,200 where all this goes. Look, you know, you have to 551 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,160 understand the, you know, this is kind of what I am into, what 552 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,960 I do, technology and you know, things I'm, you know, when I'm 553 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:26,080 not being a podcaster and you have to understand what AI is 554 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,040 capable of and what it is. It's just a, a large language 555 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,320 model and it's just aggregating information that's already out 556 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,560 there. So yeah, to, to come up with 557 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,400 some breakthrough thing or whatever. 558 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,480 It's just, it's just putting pieces together. 559 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,760 It's not actually discovering things or actually giving you 560 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,080 the full answer. It's giving you the best answer 561 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,280 that some other human had already put down on paper. 562 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:53,040 Yeah, our unique respect. But it's it's also, what's the 563 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:57,120 word I'm looking for? Sorry, it just slipped away. 564 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:04,000 It'll come in just a second. Yeah, it'll come to me. 565 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,040 It'll come to me. It'll pop in here in a second. 566 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:11,159 OK. But it's the way it how can I 567 00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:14,679 put it, the way it works? It's not. 568 00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:19,520 It's not so much AI, it's so much as in and of itself. 569 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,920 Is it how it's used that's the real problem? 570 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:26,719 Cause humans are going to mess things up. 571 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:29,840 You know, well, as you already mentioned it, it will give you 572 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,040 wrong answers. And if you're just assuming that 573 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,679 everything it gives you is right, then yeah, you're you're 574 00:34:34,679 --> 00:34:37,800 already. Yeah, the, yeah, the AI, you 575 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,159 know, the AI suicides and the AI chatbot love affairs. 576 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,000 I just read an interesting story today, earlier today or 577 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,679 yesterday about a, a guy who was involved with the AI and came up 578 00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:52,880 with a mathematical theory. And you heard about that one, 579 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:58,600 The AI encouraged he he came up with this mathematical theory 580 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,480 and the AI encouraged him and said he was brilliant and it was 581 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,280 all men, like the best thing in the world. 582 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,320 You're right. You solved this massive 583 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,520 mathematical problem. And I found out it was total 584 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,200 bullshit. And it was. 585 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,440 I have heard like AI psychosis, like, you know, like you like 586 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,600 like like kind of reaffirming people's delusional beliefs or 587 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:22,560 things like that. Exactly what I'm talking about. 588 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:27,520 Yeah. So one of the things we, it's a 589 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,280 human nature, but one of the things that we mess up with is 590 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,600 we get a technology and we go balls out with it before you 591 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:38,840 even knowing what it really is. And you know, I've for me, you 592 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,640 may have heard me say this before, but I started off in the 593 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:44,440 Air Force working on tube equipment. 594 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,520 I went from tubes to solid-state to integrated circuits to 595 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:54,400 microprocessor to mini computers to PCs to mainframes to PCs to 596 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,000 networks. That was my, my last big job was 597 00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,200 IT manager, right? So I've lived through all that 598 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,720 technology and been part of it. The, the company I used to work 599 00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:04,800 for was the ones that handed her all the URLs. 600 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,840 We, we own Network Solutions at the time, that was the one place 601 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,960 where you could get your URLs. And I worked on cutting edge 602 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:13,960 lasers and this and that. So I was part of all that. 603 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:15,640 I made my living in the middle of all that. 604 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,800 But I've noticed that we do stuff, we get something and we 605 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,800 think this is cool and then we're off and running before we 606 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,880 even know. And I think that AI has a huge, 607 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:31,760 huge double edged sword and we're going to benefit from it, 608 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:32,760 but we're going to suffer from it. 609 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,280 We already are. You don't. 610 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,400 Even know that you could say that about the Internet right 611 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:38,440 now in general. Too. 612 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,880 Yeah, even even, Yeah, even technology overall, if you think 613 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:46,440 about it, it's like it gets ahead of us. 614 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,560 And one of the interesting things I've noticed is, you 615 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,400 know, the expression state-of-the-art. 616 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:59,480 Well, that's where the evolution of technology is, is at anyone 617 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,800 moment. I don't know that it's that way 618 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,520 anymore. But for years and years and 619 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,880 years in the industry, there was Moore's Law. 620 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,440 And basically they would take the amount of place, the amount 621 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,200 of space it takes for a number of circuits. 622 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:15,840 And they were having it every year. 623 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,240 So what would happen is they'd have like for argument's sake 624 00:37:21,240 --> 00:37:25,600 and PCs and all that you'd have, you'd have a 286 and you might 625 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:27,200 have that for a year or two or whatever. 626 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,880 And then they, they got this new improvement, 386 comes out. 627 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:37,040 Well, so a suddenly all the 286 prices drop and then you have, 628 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:41,360 you know, 386SX and then 486, right? 629 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,440 And then every time and then the evolution of the technology is 630 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,440 moving at a particular speed. So whatever speed it moves at, 631 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,000 it comes out with a new version. Suddenly all the old versions 632 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,200 drop. So it, it drives, it drives it 633 00:37:55,200 --> 00:38:00,160 financially, economically, it drives it and it's just going 634 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:04,080 and headlong forward without any real knowledge of where it's 635 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:05,800 going. And we're we're discovering more 636 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,760 every day, right? I mean, even all the AI stuff, a 637 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,880 lot of it's been based around like the NVIDIA chips, which 638 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,280 were like the ultimate probably still are the ultimate video 639 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,160 processors. Right, Yeah. 640 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:22,160 I mean, if I had to guess, though, I would say with the 641 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:26,920 invention of quantum computing, the in, in most, I, I don't 642 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,600 think most people are even realize they think that quantum 643 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,480 competing is just faster. But I think that no, it's more 644 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,840 based on physics and understanding physics and things 645 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,800 like that. So if you can, if you can, if 646 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,760 you can implement some sort of advanced AI that's not in the 647 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:48,400 stage that it's in now, like a more intelligent and integrated 648 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:52,440 to that we might be able to open up understanding of physics in 649 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,680 our own universe in a way that we never have before. 650 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,880 So that would be an application that I would be all on board 651 00:38:57,880 --> 00:38:59,800 for. Now that might bring up other 652 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,760 problems, and I'm sure somebody would try and weaponize some 653 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,440 aspect of it, but. It's going to be all of that. 654 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,200 It's going to be all of that. Yeah. 655 00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:11,760 You know, quantum to say quantum computers faster is like 656 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,480 comparing speed with Infinity. I mean, the whole thing is 657 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:19,200 fucking exponential and sprawling and just it's, it's, 658 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:23,040 it's it's, it's like a bottomless, hungry, freaking 659 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,240 ravenous monster. Yeah, they're talking about 660 00:39:25,240 --> 00:39:30,960 creating, you know, nuclear plants just to power these 661 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:31,640 things. Yeah. 662 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,440 Yeah, yeah, No, I just read a thing this morning about how a 663 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,160 lot of people's electric bills are going up because it's 664 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:41,480 consuming so much power. And if you think about it in a 665 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:47,280 way like sort of in terms of a metaphor, right, you have this 666 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,920 thing consuming the earth, consuming power, and it's 667 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,680 supporting what's contrary to the natural world. 668 00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:00,680 You know, it's, it's, and that's just like one perspective. 669 00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:02,800 It's not all about that, but it's interesting to see that 670 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:08,720 sort of dichotomy arise. Yeah, I think, I think look, 671 00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:12,760 with all this stuff, I think we're entering everything's ex, 672 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,840 ex, you know, expanding exponentially. 673 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:23,160 But also we're also still humans, we're still flawed. 674 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,840 We're still, you know, we're not perfect ourselves. 675 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:31,160 So this idea that we're going to make something perfect, it's 676 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,240 almost like we're trying to make God or a God or something. 677 00:40:34,240 --> 00:40:38,200 We're playing. God, but we're, I don't, I don't 678 00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:41,360 know how if we're not able to achieve that ourselves, how are 679 00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:45,120 we able to build something of that nature that I guess that 680 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,040 would be the philosophical question. 681 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,520 I would have you know, to the people that are pushing that. 682 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,240 Yeah, so here's a little story for you. 683 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:59,000 Years ago, I work with this young girl, younger girl, and 684 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:03,200 she was studying to be a therapist and her whole life was 685 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,800 whacked. Everything was wrong. 686 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:10,320 And I sat down with her one day and I said, and I was mean, I'm 687 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,040 trying to be mean or nothing. I said, don't you think you 688 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,480 should figure out your own life before you're going to try to 689 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,360 solve everybody else's? So you just broke down and 690 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,800 started bawling. I wasn't trying to be mean, but 691 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,840 that was my observation, Right? And then you realize. 692 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:26,240 Yeah. How can you help somebody else 693 00:41:26,240 --> 00:41:28,960 if you can't even help yourself? Yeah, you got to start. 694 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:33,520 That's the whole concept of shaman is the wounded healer. 695 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,720 They they figure out their own stuff and heal themselves, and 696 00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:40,800 then they can go heal others by what they've learned about 697 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:46,000 themselves, you know? But a lot of people who get into 698 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:49,080 psychiatry and psychology and therapy are whack themselves. 699 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,040 It's part of their search for trying to figure out what's 700 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:56,120 wrong with them. This girl, yeah, this girl was 701 00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:57,080 pretty blatant. Didn't. 702 00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:01,000 Trust me, dude, I've, I've been to enough CBT and therapies for 703 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:05,200 my OCD. And, you know, I always wondered 704 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,880 like if I ever came across a therapist that actually had OCD, 705 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:11,800 they could probably help me more than anybody, you know, like, so 706 00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:16,400 that never happened. But oddly enough, the best 707 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:18,040 therapist I ever had was like a converter. 708 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:22,960 He used to be a priest and then he became like a therapist and 709 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,080 we would talk like he was I, you know, I would talk about like, 710 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,720 you know, altered States and psychedelics and like bring. 711 00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:34,200 And he was open, you know, to those ideas of helping, you 712 00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:39,520 know, and things like that. So yeah, I think that, yeah, 713 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,960 we're just like these, like perfectly imperfect beings that 714 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,080 I don't know, it's going to be interesting. 715 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:49,920 We're not grown up enough for the toys we have. 716 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:51,760 That's true. That's very true. 717 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:53,880 A. Big part of the acceleration, 718 00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:57,640 we're talking technological acceleration the biggest one of 719 00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:59,920 the biggest things is the Internet because it connects us 720 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:04,920 immediately. You know, I can have a physics 721 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:07,800 equation I'm trying to analyze and hit boom. 722 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:11,760 And 2 seconds later some guy in Russia was reading it going, Oh 723 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,360 yeah, I know that that subtractor constant, blah, blah, 724 00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,880 whatever. You know, here's the answer. 725 00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:19,440 And that kind of instantaneous communication. 726 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:21,960 I mean, even I'm writing this book and I'm coming across 727 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:23,840 little things and I want to get a refresher. 728 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:26,200 I just take the term and Google it. 729 00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,600 I'll pop the definition. I'm like, all right, there it 730 00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:34,440 is. Right back in the day, you know, 731 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:39,680 like when I was researching Land Without Evil man, I'd go to the 732 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:47,000 UCSD first. I would log on, dial up pre 733 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:51,480 Internet. I could dial up the UCUCSD 734 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:57,200 library and then I'd download all the stuff I want and print 735 00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:01,000 them out. Then I'd go to the library and 736 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:04,320 I'd spend 30 bucks on a copy card and I'd find all the 737 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:08,200 articles from Schultz and, and all those guys and I'd go and, 738 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,160 and I'd walk out with a thick stack of papers, right? 739 00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:14,320 And then I had to sit home and read through it all and then put 740 00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:18,600 it all into the key, you know. But then I had tons of books. 741 00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,280 I'd have all the books out. I still got them all out now for 742 00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,400 my last bit of research. They're all there when you find 743 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:27,680 out. Exhausting that Dewey Decimal 744 00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,760 system there. Oh yeah, I, I was, I grew up 745 00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:33,480 with that. But if I find it online and I'm 746 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,880 working on the document, oh, there it is. 747 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:40,000 I do a cut and paste, pop it into my document, edit it, you 748 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:45,120 know, put it where it fits. It's all done in seconds. 749 00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:49,960 What used to take days. Even the whole cut and paste 750 00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,240 function, they used to literally cut and paste when they edited, 751 00:44:52,240 --> 00:44:53,560 right? Probably. 752 00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,360 Looks like a serial killer's note or something. 753 00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:57,720 It's exactly what it looked like. 754 00:44:58,600 --> 00:44:59,720 Yeah, exactly what it looked like. 755 00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:01,480 They would really cut and paste like that. 756 00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:04,960 I, I, I just, I would just rewrite it. 757 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,040 I'd look at it and rewrite it. I think that's better process. 758 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:13,760 But you know what works is. We went on this like whole AI 759 00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,920 tangent, which I loved by the way. 760 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,640 That was fantastic. I do want to kind of get to some 761 00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,360 of your writing though, and like your process because I too, 762 00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:26,200 because I don't, you know, like we always talk about like 763 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,800 ayahuasca and psychedelics and I love all that stuff, the history 764 00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:32,840 and your connections with all these, you know, big shots and, 765 00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,440 and great minds throughout psychedelic history. 766 00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:39,760 But I kind of wanted to ask you, your takes, 'cause I know that 767 00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:43,120 you're, you're really ingrained in the writing community too. 768 00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:49,440 And you, you do non fiction and fiction and you have all these 769 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:54,080 great stories, your fiction and non fiction, often, you know, 770 00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:57,840 they weave these psychedelic experiences into narrative. 771 00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:04,240 How do you balance that poetic creativity with like, accurate 772 00:46:04,240 --> 00:46:06,880 representation of those states, if you will? 773 00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:11,200 Yeah, that's a good question. That's been my lifetime struggle 774 00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:16,840 I've had. Let me think about this. 775 00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:22,440 Stan Crippner, who I mentioned, Lorenzo from the psychedelic 776 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,080 salon. Big psychedelic guys say they've 777 00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:28,680 never seen it. I've never seen anybody describe 778 00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:32,880 it as well as I do, and I appreciate that. 779 00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:37,360 And I take that as a compliment because I've struggled all my 780 00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:45,280 life to try to get what is beyond words and paint a picture 781 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:50,800 to put it into somebody's mind that defies words, basically. 782 00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,400 So one of the things I discovered in the key, one of 783 00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:59,480 the big keys, is metaphor. You know, basically better for, 784 00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:06,160 you know, black as coal. You know, all those references. 785 00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,520 So you find something. Metaphor is one thing that 786 00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:11,400 represents another. And if you put it the right way 787 00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:17,400 into somebody, they can get it. Now for me, the process of 788 00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:27,080 writing the mind is the canvas and the words are the brushes, 789 00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:30,840 the strokes of the brush. Except you're not painting a 790 00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,400 static picture, you're painting a dynamic picture. 791 00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:39,720 So you want to pick elements that stand out, that somebody 792 00:47:39,720 --> 00:47:44,400 can totally relate to, that makes it real for them. 793 00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:52,760 And then you choose that and you do your best to put that 794 00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,520 representation of what you've experienced or know or you're 795 00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,920 trying to describe in their mind, but using a lot of 796 00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:02,360 metaphor and colors. And, you know, they used to make 797 00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:07,960 jokes about HP Lovecraft. Oh, it was the ultimate horror. 798 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,520 It was so horrible. I'm paraphrasing, but it was so 799 00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:15,000 horrible, I can't write it, you know, basically like that. 800 00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:20,600 So when you understand the elements that are important, one 801 00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,400 of the things about ayahuasca experience and psychedelics in 802 00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:26,760 general, but especially with ayahuasca, is you can have 803 00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:33,720 emotional, auditory, visual things all confused into one. 804 00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:41,480 One of the keys to dream retrieval, for argument's sake 805 00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:45,360 and dreamer interpretation, is to follow the feeling that the 806 00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:49,200 dream gave you. Follow that and try to figure 807 00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:51,560 out where that came from when you'll discover more than trying 808 00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:54,760 to just do logically make sense out of it. 809 00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:03,400 So you pick out things also that have have what we we call 810 00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:08,400 significant details that put you there, that put the reader 811 00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:11,160 there. Whenever somebody reads, they're 812 00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:14,680 really becoming the narrator. Especially in fiction, we all 813 00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:18,120 want to be the hero when we watch the heroes, you know, 814 00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:25,440 everybody wants to be Spider Man or, or you know, whoever their 815 00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:30,000 favorite is, Superman, Batman. And, and even in the thriller 816 00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:35,560 novels and spy novels, you're living vicariously through the 817 00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:37,400 characters. You're seeing things through the 818 00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:39,280 character's eyes. You really, if you're doing a 819 00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,240 good job, you identify and you sort of become the character in 820 00:49:42,240 --> 00:49:44,120 your mind. You're having that fantasy of 821 00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:49,280 being a super spy or whatever. So when you put yourself in that 822 00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:53,560 place of perspective and then you pick significant details 823 00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:59,400 that put the reader there with you, you know, it's a cliche, 824 00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:05,160 but you could say cold as ice. It's a cliche, but nonetheless, 825 00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:08,360 everybody knows what a site could be called as ice, right? 826 00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,680 You know, you can get creative and say, you know, the, the, the 827 00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:17,800 side of the corpse felt like a rattlesnake Slytherin down his 828 00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:20,120 spine. And, you know, icy drops of cold 829 00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:22,160 sweat ran in his butt crack and whatever. 830 00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:28,000 When you bring in visceral things, that makes it real 831 00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,600 because that's something everybody can relate to, right? 832 00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,880 It was so disgusting. I started gagging and smelling 833 00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:37,160 and then this thing, you know, I was fucking blowing lunch, 834 00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:41,240 right? I mean, those are things 835 00:50:41,240 --> 00:50:42,320 everybody can relate to. Yeah. 836 00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:47,160 So I'm sure, especially the butt crack part. 837 00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:51,400 Yeah, yeah, I was getting carried away, but. 838 00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:54,320 No, no, that was that was great. But people. 839 00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:57,440 Have told me over the years that I really have a knack and I 840 00:50:57,440 --> 00:50:59,600 worked on it for years to develop it of putting people 841 00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:03,240 there. Yeah, I mean, I've never done 842 00:51:03,240 --> 00:51:10,200 ayahuasca, but you definitely have got the psychedelic feeling 843 00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,320 and some visuals. And obviously you don't just 844 00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,040 write about, you know, ayahuasca, but you definitely 845 00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:20,240 have you have that down. I would say just like I've seen 846 00:51:20,240 --> 00:51:25,760 a couple people recreate videos online that kind of resemble the 847 00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:28,480 visuals of the experience. I think that you've got that 848 00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:31,800 from like a writing perspective, which is a great thing to have. 849 00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:36,240 It's, you know, just look, one thing when I was getting into 850 00:51:36,240 --> 00:51:39,960 reading these kinds of books, like in high school, freshman 851 00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:43,080 year, my cousin Maurice, who used to be my my Co host, we 852 00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:47,040 read electric kool-aid, acid test, on the road, Dharma Bums. 853 00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:50,880 What else did we read? You know, like a Jerry Garcia 854 00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:52,840 biography, Like we were reading all sorts of stuff, 855 00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,400 counterculture stuff, Hunter S Thompson. 856 00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:00,240 And one of the things that struck me the most was all the 857 00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:04,080 those great writers had the ability to use descriptive 858 00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:08,320 detail in a way that, like you said, kind of puts you there. 859 00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:11,200 And I think that you do that very well, as you mentioned. 860 00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:13,840 And I think that that's an important thing to have, 861 00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:16,240 especially when you're discussing these kinds of 862 00:52:16,240 --> 00:52:20,080 experiences. Yeah, it's authenticity. 863 00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:23,280 It's why I decided to write a memoir. 864 00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:26,680 How many people got to do what I've done and and you know, the 865 00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:29,640 crazy path I took to end up in the jungle. 866 00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:33,200 And they have such profound experiences and to be able to 867 00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:38,320 make sense out of them, you know, sometimes I feel like 868 00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:48,280 myself and others are like, I'm like a, I'm a scout and I've no 869 00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:50,480 turn on stoned. I've hit every branch so I could 870 00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:54,880 find with anything I could find and been through some really 871 00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:57,600 crazy things that I've learned to make sense of and navigate. 872 00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:03,920 So now it's important for me to take that when people I hear it 873 00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:07,600 all the time. If I, if I lead a group and I 874 00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:11,560 take them on a journey, they feel very, very, very, very safe 875 00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:15,600 with me. And I always tell them I'll go 876 00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:18,280 absolutely anywhere in the dark with you. 877 00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:22,200 No problem. I'm here and it makes a big 878 00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:25,440 difference for them because they feel safe and protected. 879 00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:30,200 And for me, it's part of embracing being freaking and 880 00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:34,080 psychedelic elder or old guy, 'cause all my mentors are gone 881 00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:36,520 just about anyway. Well, it's my turn to carry the 882 00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:39,080 torch. And I think it's important to 883 00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:42,520 pass on everything I've learned and maybe some of the nutty 884 00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:44,760 stuff I've gone through, people can read about it and go, OK, I 885 00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,320 don't need to do that, you know, like that. 886 00:53:50,240 --> 00:53:53,000 But it's my time and place to do this so. 887 00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:59,440 To that point, do you see your writing itself is like a 888 00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,800 psychedelic process that maybe you're channeling something 889 00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:07,200 larger than yourself for other people or the general public? 890 00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:07,520 Yeah. Oh. 891 00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:09,440 Absolutely. That's when I when I talk about 892 00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:11,440 falling into the page and when it's flowing. 893 00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:15,880 Years ago I was, I used to read write my stuff and I'd wait a 894 00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:18,000 few weeks, then I'd go read it in a writing workshop. 895 00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:22,320 And I remember years ago, one of the first times I was reading my 896 00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:24,360 stuff, I hadn't looked at for a couple of months and I was like, 897 00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:29,240 shit, this is really good. Who wrote this, right? 898 00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:33,840 Like, this is brilliant. I'm not that good, right? 899 00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:41,160 And, and now my best stuff, I trust in the process and it 900 00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:42,720 comes through. It's the same thing when I play 901 00:54:42,720 --> 00:54:46,440 drums. I'm known for, for playing the 902 00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:49,840 floor also. I also play hand pan. 903 00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:51,040 You know what hand pan is, right? 904 00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:56,080 I play hand pan and when I'm doing that in an ayahuasca 905 00:54:56,080 --> 00:55:02,960 ceremony and I and it starts to come, I just close my eyes and, 906 00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:07,840 and it just takes me and I just go and it takes me places. 907 00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:09,400 I'm like, wow. And of course, everybody who's 908 00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:11,280 with me, who's listening, they're, they're, they're, 909 00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:16,320 they're, they're on the journey with me and I take them all 910 00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:19,000 these different places rhythmically and tonally. 911 00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:20,720 I mean, you know, you're you're a musician, right? 912 00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:23,240 But when you're doing the ceremony and they're really 913 00:55:23,240 --> 00:55:25,120 receptive and open to it and you're doing it with the 914 00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:30,160 intention of guiding them along. Yeah. 915 00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:32,480 You may have heard me say this before, but in the lore of the 916 00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:38,440 jungle, they say that ayahuasca is the river and the notes and 917 00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:41,960 the ikaros, the songs and the notes of the music or what carry 918 00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:43,640 or the boats that carry you along the river. 919 00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:48,360 So when I hit that and I have that feeling, I just let go and 920 00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:51,720 man, and it's a beautiful thing. And when I get to that point, 921 00:55:51,720 --> 00:55:54,720 like I said, Stephen King called it falling into the page where 922 00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:57,800 I'm staring at a page and that's, you know, 3 hours have 923 00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:00,920 gone by and, and I got 4 good pages and like, wow. 924 00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:04,920 And then the other thing is, is when you go through successive 925 00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:09,480 edits, it's like a different party who was looking at it each 926 00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:13,000 time. So like, I'll finish the first 927 00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:16,120 draft of this thing, I'll set it aside for a month and forget 928 00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:19,120 about it. Then I'll print it out. 929 00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:24,200 Then I'll go through it with a red pen and I'll line edit it. 930 00:56:25,240 --> 00:56:28,880 Now, having it in print with a red pen, I see it in a totally 931 00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:30,520 different way. It's like another person looking 932 00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,120 at it than the one who first wrote it, right? 933 00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:37,360 And then when I take those red lines, and then I integrate them 934 00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:40,120 into Word as a wall back and forth, that's another edit. 935 00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:47,720 So each successive time a different part of me contributes 936 00:56:47,720 --> 00:56:50,920 something. Sometimes some I could be 3 or 4 937 00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:52,840 drafts in and something really good will come. 938 00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:55,600 I'll go fuck, I got to get that in there, man, right here. 939 00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:57,080 Let's cut that over here and move that down. 940 00:56:57,080 --> 00:56:58,960 We'll get rid of that sentence. Put that in there. 941 00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:01,560 You know, it's, it's like working with woods, sending it 942 00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:04,040 over, polishing it, you know, getting, you know, looking for 943 00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:08,120 typos, all that stuff. But it's a, it really is a 944 00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:10,880 magical process. And it's, and it's, it's beyond 945 00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:13,240 me. To me, good art. 946 00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:20,600 And that includes music and writing transcends bad. 947 00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:24,960 You really sort of surrender yourself to it. 948 00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:28,840 I put shit into my subconscious. I have no idea what it's going 949 00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:30,400 to do. I put it in and I forget about 950 00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:32,360 it because I know it's going to come back out in some cool way. 951 00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:36,280 And it's a very wonderful, mysterious process that I've 952 00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:40,880 cultivated now for 40 years or so. 953 00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:46,000 And it's freaking magic. And the stuff that comes out, I 954 00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:48,560 mean, God, this is brilliant. Who the fuck like this? 955 00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:50,880 It wasn't me. I ain't that good, you know? 956 00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:52,680 And there it comes. And then when you hear other 957 00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:54,280 people say it, you know, I've got something. 958 00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:56,080 I lost track. I've got something like 42 959 00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:58,720 writing awards, all kinds of stuff. 960 00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:04,360 For me, I like it because it's validation, because you don't 961 00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:06,240 know, you could think a lot of what you do with shit. 962 00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:11,400 But then I get a sense that when it comes out, it's going to 963 00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:14,480 happen. And one of the reasons, among a 964 00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:16,880 million others, when I started writing is I was reading a lot 965 00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:17,880 of shit. And I'm like, if they're 966 00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:19,920 publishing this shit, I could do better than that at least, 967 00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:22,720 right? And then, of course, I got 968 00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:24,240 really swallowed up in the craft. 969 00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:28,440 And I was lucky and blessed to, to run into, you know, Ray 970 00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:32,840 Bradbury and be mentored by him and other big people who really 971 00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:37,160 saw me as one of them and took me under their wing. 972 00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:42,720 And, you know, I, I never intended on being a writing 973 00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:45,560 teacher. I got hundreds of students. 974 00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:48,600 Some of my top students are now teaching with me at the writers 975 00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:49,760 conference. They're, they're, they're 976 00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:52,240 getting to be big name writing teachers themselves. 977 00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:54,040 So I get the proud daddy syndrome, you know. 978 00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:58,080 Yeah, that's awesome. In your teaching, though, you 979 00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:01,600 know, you emphasize discipline. How does discipline though 980 00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:08,360 coexist with the chaos or the the craziness of these visionary 981 00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:13,040 experiences which are pretty much not discipline at all? 982 00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:15,800 Well, I keep them separate for one thing. 983 00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:19,080 Like I've known writers who do down in the jungle doing a 984 00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:21,120 theatre and like I'm working on my book and I'm like, you're 985 00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:23,600 fucking nuts. It's not. 986 00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:25,360 This is definitely what you're not supposed to be doing. 987 00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:26,840 I have one guy, I won't mention his name. 988 00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:28,440 He was begging me to read his manuscript. 989 00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:33,400 I almost took a swing at him. I was like, get out of here. 990 00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:35,600 That's the last thing I want. I'm not here to write. 991 00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:38,920 I'm not write. Tell me off air I'm interested. 992 00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:41,080 Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. 993 00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:45,160 Remind me anyway. We'll add it to the Patreon. 994 00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:48,320 No, I'm. Joking now, one of the things 995 00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:52,360 Ray Bradbury said, which is great among among another 996 00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:56,600 gazillion brilliant things, is if you show up in the same place 997 00:59:56,600 --> 01:00:00,680 at the same time every day to write, your body will adapt to 998 01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:05,080 the rhythm. Your our bodies, we're made of 999 01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:06,080 rhythms. We breathe them. 1000 01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:09,040 We breathe out our heart beats, our pulse goes our, our brain 1001 01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:11,640 waves. We're all about rhythm. 1002 01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,000 Rhythm is life. You know that as a musician, 1003 01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:18,160 it's why music is so popular, because it's rhythm, you know, 1004 01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:21,040 one of the most best things I've ever heard, you know, Pink 1005 01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:23,400 Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon and the heartbeat. 1006 01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:25,000 Boom. Damn. 1007 01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:26,680 I mean that this like takes me over. 1008 01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:29,000 That intro is just transcendent. I remember. 1009 01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:35,280 Yeah, being a freshman, blazing up, going to lay down, throw my 1010 01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:39,320 head, my big headphones on and just lose myself in the dark 1011 01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:40,800 side of the moon. That was like the first. 1012 01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:43,840 That was like my first before I really got into, like, 1013 01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:45,960 psychedelia. Yeah. 1014 01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:49,760 I was, yeah. I won't even, I'll tell you one 1015 01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:53,400 thing really quick and getting back on track, but I've taken 1016 01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:56,200 hundreds and hundreds of people on their first acid trips. 1017 01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:00,000 And one of the things I always do as part of the initiation is 1018 01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:01,840 I have them sit through Dark Side of the Moon. 1019 01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:06,600 It's like the thing. I think that's the way to go 1020 01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:09,720 'cause I'll tell you one thing, I've experienced that on the 1021 01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:12,880 wall and those two do not go together at. 1022 01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:16,520 All well, Dark Side of the moon is is it for me as far as I'm 1023 01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:19,720 concerned. The war the war aspects of the 1024 01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:23,680 wall mixed with LSD are not two things that. 1025 01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:26,280 No, it's the energy of it. It's so dark. 1026 01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:28,000 It's so. Yeah, yeah. 1027 01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:34,680 Yeah, so the key is the rhythm. So now I got a great rhythm. 1028 01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:39,200 I'm hitting the gym five days a week and then I write. 1029 01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:43,320 So I'm very physically active and then I write and I'm showing 1030 01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:47,280 up the same time every day and it flows and it picks up and 1031 01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:50,600 your body knows even like, like I'm one of those Hemingway was 1032 01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:52,720 like a coffee shop bar room writer. 1033 01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:56,600 I can be like that. I love going to funky old coffee 1034 01:01:56,600 --> 01:01:59,080 shops where you smoke coffee and cute little chickies are running 1035 01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:01,880 around and I'm working on my stuff and it's just enough. 1036 01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:05,080 Like I get stuck and I can look over and look at some little 1037 01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:10,400 cute chick and kind of momentary distraction, you know, and the 1038 01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:12,280 whole vibe and coffee and then, oh, that's it. 1039 01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:15,680 And then I go back and, you know, work on it again, right? 1040 01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:17,600 It's that thing. It's the rhythm. 1041 01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:26,160 So with the gym and the writing, it's like a pendulum. 1042 01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:29,760 Even back in the day when I was working out, I remember I was 1043 01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:32,320 reading books and I would read a book and I would, so I would do, 1044 01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:37,600 you know, 10 reps read 2 chapters, 10 reps read 2, right? 1045 01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:39,920 And I'd like to finish books and get good workouts. 1046 01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:44,040 And because I was playing the energies off of each other, so I 1047 01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:47,880 use that kind of an energy to go. 1048 01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:54,720 And I hate to say it, but cannabis really helps me. 1049 01:02:56,120 --> 01:03:01,240 But typically I have my coffee in the morning and I'll make 1050 01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:06,960 myself wait till 4:20. By then, you know, the caffeine, 1051 01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:09,000 you get a little brittle and it's just not doing it and all 1052 01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:10,080 that. I'm going to take a couple hits 1053 01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:13,280 of some good weed, man. I'll get another 3 or 4 pages. 1054 01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:15,480 Good ones. It's like a second stage, like, 1055 01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:18,280 Oh yeah, OK. You don't have to twist my arm 1056 01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:19,960 about it bro, I'm all. Yeah, yeah. 1057 01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:22,600 No, no, I'm always. There, if you're an artist, 1058 01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:26,400 there's very few things that I do think are super helpful and 1059 01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:30,240 yeah, that could be one of them. Now I was telling my brother, 1060 01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:37,040 you know, my my happy place. Is it caffeine, coffee, a little 1061 01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:40,640 bit of weed? And I'm writing, I'm in heaven. 1062 01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:44,400 I'm serving my purpose, I'm being and stuff's coming out. 1063 01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:46,720 And like I said, it comes out and I look at it, I go, wow. 1064 01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:49,600 And then when I've had some of it, I've entered in some 1065 01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:54,120 contests and I win for his prize, honorable mention or in 1066 01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:57,040 first place I go, yeah, I guess you can write. 1067 01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:00,040 You're not blowing sunshine up your ass. 1068 01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:01,800 You're not worthless. These people who don't give a 1069 01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:06,720 shit who you are, you're just looking at the jury work affect 1070 01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:08,800 them or, you know, is it powerful? 1071 01:04:10,120 --> 01:04:13,560 And to get that, you know, my, my second year at the Santa 1072 01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:17,320 Barbara Writers Conference, I won a fiction award about a guy 1073 01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:20,760 who got some psychedelics from a shaman and didn't do what he was 1074 01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:23,400 told and ends up losing his mind and killing his girlfriend and 1075 01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:24,880 getting taken away in a straitjacket. 1076 01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:27,920 But it was a psychedelic short story. 1077 01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:31,680 It was like my first one. And I was at this writers 1078 01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:33,800 conference with all these older people and this and that. 1079 01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:36,840 And then they freaking gave me a fiction award for it. 1080 01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:42,640 So I thought, wow, I can write, you know, and now I know. 1081 01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:48,200 Not just a lot of people, even bigger name people who have a 1082 01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:50,240 lot of respect. Stan Krypenn, I said, is a big 1083 01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:53,960 fan of mine, my buddy Mick. Mick. 1084 01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:57,520 Mick was from Mick. He won't mind me saying it. 1085 01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:00,240 Mick Mashbeer. He was Alice Cooper's lead 1086 01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:02,480 guitar for a Billion Dollar Babies album and tour. 1087 01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:03,440 He's a really good friend of mine. 1088 01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:07,720 He loves my work. I I sent him all the audio books 1089 01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:10,920 for free now. Yeah, but we get together at 1090 01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:12,080 least once a year, and I'm up there. 1091 01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:15,120 He's in Santa Barbara. But I've had people who I highly 1092 01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:17,080 respect. Jim Fadiman's another one. 1093 01:05:17,080 --> 01:05:19,360 I told you, Jim Fadiman came to my writing workshop, right? 1094 01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:22,040 Yeah, I think you mentioned a couple. 1095 01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:23,320 Episodes. He was my writing student. 1096 01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:26,520 I didn't even know who he was, and he was like my teacher's pet 1097 01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:28,320 because he was good. He was writing these cool little 1098 01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:31,480 short stories. Yeah, he's written some. 1099 01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:34,600 I think his last couple books have been non fiction on micro 1100 01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:36,560 dosing. Yeah, that's why I want to get 1101 01:05:36,560 --> 01:05:38,080 him on the ayahuasca one because. 1102 01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:44,320 But I I got to know him because his uncle Clifton was a big deal 1103 01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:46,560 in the literary world and that's how he was involved with the 1104 01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:50,160 conference. And when the conference was was 1105 01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:53,680 over, after spending a week with me and I didn't know who he was, 1106 01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:57,640 and Jim comes up to me and hands me his book, as it's called, The 1107 01:05:57,640 --> 01:06:03,520 Other Side of Hate HAIGHT. It's a great novel about this, 1108 01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:10,360 the summer of love, and what you might call it, the government 1109 01:06:10,680 --> 01:06:12,440 program. Yeah, I'm K Ultra. 1110 01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:13,800 Thank you. I'm K Ultra. 1111 01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:15,160 Yeah, Yeah, that was really that. 1112 01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:20,280 I looked at it and I looked at him and I said, you're one of 1113 01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:22,800 us, aren't you? And he goes, oh, yeah. 1114 01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:24,880 And then I found out who he really was. 1115 01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:28,480 You know, I was freaked out and then when he came out with his 1116 01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:31,080 micro dosing book, I, I interviewed him on the 1117 01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:37,240 psychedelic salon for the book. And then I did, I did the Santa 1118 01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:41,160 Barbara Writers Conference scrapbook about the 1st 30 years 1119 01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:47,600 of the conference big book. We did a documentary film and I 1120 01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:50,560 sent Jim some clips, stuff I found about his uncle. 1121 01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:54,320 So he really appreciated that. So we're we're, we're, we're, 1122 01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:56,320 we're good friends like that. So I think he might he. 1123 01:06:56,320 --> 01:06:58,600 Still got an open invitation. I reached out in the past. 1124 01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:01,920 There was no response that that happens too. 1125 01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:04,600 And you know, like I'm always open to have these conversations 1126 01:07:04,600 --> 01:07:06,840 if, you know, ends up coming around. 1127 01:07:06,840 --> 01:07:09,040 That's happened a couple times where I try to get a hold of 1128 01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:11,760 somebody didn't work out. And then later on down the line 1129 01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:15,000 you, you know, you connect. And I mentioned off air, though, 1130 01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:18,840 I became familiar with, I mean, obviously the microdosing stuff 1131 01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:22,160 now, but the, you know, an electric kool-aid acid test. 1132 01:07:22,840 --> 01:07:28,000 There's a part where Jim and his wife Bale Kesey and the Merry 1133 01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:30,960 Pranksters out of jail, if I recall. 1134 01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:35,040 Yeah, the beginning part that's. When I first read it, I didn't 1135 01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:36,160 know him. Yeah. 1136 01:07:37,200 --> 01:07:40,360 I read it way back. Yeah, yeah, that book is. 1137 01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:43,760 You're talking about descriptive detail, Tom Wolf. 1138 01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:44,840 What? What a oh he. 1139 01:07:44,840 --> 01:07:47,560 Was a brilliant writer. What a he puts you there. 1140 01:07:47,720 --> 01:07:51,160 Yeah. Yeah, I saw a great documentary 1141 01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:56,440 about him a while back. Yeah, he, there's, there's very 1142 01:07:56,440 --> 01:08:00,520 few, you know, you know, and it wasn't obviously just the 1143 01:08:00,520 --> 01:08:03,040 psychedelic stuff either. You know, he kind of crossed 1144 01:08:03,040 --> 01:08:07,360 different genre. But yeah, I mean, that's what 1145 01:08:07,360 --> 01:08:08,960 you've got, man. You've got the descriptive 1146 01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:10,600 detail. I've, I've read, you know, a 1147 01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:15,000 handful of yearbooks and the one I always think about too, 1148 01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:17,720 because I do think about, you know, metaphysics and death a 1149 01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:20,200 lot. Is, is it death a love story? 1150 01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:21,040 Is that the name of? It. 1151 01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:22,960 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 1152 01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:25,840 That's gotten some really interesting responses. 1153 01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:27,439 I knew it would. Yeah. 1154 01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:30,319 A lot of people mistake the cover. 1155 01:08:31,760 --> 01:08:33,319 With the Grim. With the Grim Reaper. 1156 01:08:33,840 --> 01:08:36,880 Yeah, And, you know, I wanted it to be like death is giving you 1157 01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:41,680 a, a, a cheesy Hallmark card, you know, because the voice in 1158 01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:47,600 it was sort of, for lack of better words, kind of light and 1159 01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:51,479 I won't say quite snarky, but, you know, hey, wait, do you see 1160 01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:53,040 this? You know, I kind of like that. 1161 01:08:53,720 --> 01:08:57,479 And that was a fun experiment in in voice. 1162 01:08:58,760 --> 01:09:00,680 You know, you have a particular voice when you're writing 1163 01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:08,319 particular stories. It's essentially that the tone 1164 01:09:08,319 --> 01:09:11,279 and the voice of the narrator or the storyteller or the main 1165 01:09:11,279 --> 01:09:15,600 character. So that voice was different than 1166 01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:19,040 say, the voice when I did my land without evil about, you 1167 01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:23,160 know, historical right. And with death, I was really I 1168 01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:25,640 that that that really got caught up in that whole idea of the 1169 01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:30,800 voice of death. You know, if that if death is 1170 01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:34,720 just talking to you when I want on conversation, what's he going 1171 01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:35,880 to say and what's it going to be like? 1172 01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:39,920 And then you can go off and have throw a little humor in there 1173 01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:44,120 and had a lot of fun and I got some really amazing reviews on 1174 01:09:44,120 --> 01:09:47,640 it. So that was fun. 1175 01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:50,399 And I need to classify that book fiction or non fiction. 1176 01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:53,160 I mean, the other thing too is we all die. 1177 01:09:53,279 --> 01:09:56,320 We all think about it, but we all pretend. 1178 01:09:56,320 --> 01:10:00,040 We all, you know, pacify ourselves. 1179 01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:03,920 Yeah, it's, it's always, you know, it's always this like, 1180 01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:06,840 obscure thing in the back of our mind until we think about it. 1181 01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:08,600 And then it's like, oh, let me push it back there because I 1182 01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:11,400 don't want to think about it. No, but I thought that that was 1183 01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:13,120 a great book. I think anybody interested 1184 01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:17,720 should check that out. I was going to ask you in Spirit 1185 01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:21,880 Matters, you described the spiritual dimension of reality. 1186 01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:28,520 How has your understanding of metaphysics kind of shifted or 1187 01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:32,440 changed through the years since you've written that or hasn't? 1188 01:10:32,440 --> 01:10:33,920 That's a great. Yeah, that's a great question, 1189 01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:38,000 bro. Here's the thing, you get 1190 01:10:39,480 --> 01:10:43,160 impressed by certain things at a particular point in life where 1191 01:10:43,160 --> 01:10:45,520 you're at a certain stage where you have so much knowledge. 1192 01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:52,120 Often times you come back with it some years later and you see 1193 01:10:52,120 --> 01:10:57,320 all this other stuff you never saw before and it can be really 1194 01:10:59,880 --> 01:11:02,760 eye opening and mind blowing, like one of the things I 1195 01:11:02,760 --> 01:11:06,960 realized. So my first published book was 1196 01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:09,400 The Small Dark Room of the Soul and Other Stories. 1197 01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:16,120 And I realized a couple of years after I published it, that was 1198 01:11:16,120 --> 01:11:20,480 about the human shadow. And I wasn't even, I don't even 1199 01:11:20,480 --> 01:11:22,800 know what the shadow was at the point, but that's exactly what 1200 01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:25,840 it was about. And, you know, I was talking 1201 01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:30,520 about Anna and Sasha Shogun. I was with them at the Antheo 1202 01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:35,000 Bonnie seminars in Polanke. This is right around, you know, 1203 01:11:36,800 --> 01:11:41,360 99 two thousand and Anne encouraged me to to do more 1204 01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:43,800 work, research more into the shadow and incorporate it into 1205 01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:46,080 my writing. And she made a big difference to 1206 01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:48,720 me. And I looked back in a lot of my 1207 01:11:48,720 --> 01:11:51,920 work and I was already doing it, but I didn't know what it was 1208 01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:54,000 and I didn't define it, if that makes any sense. 1209 01:11:55,880 --> 01:11:57,920 So I look back at some of my earlier works and I'm going, 1210 01:11:57,920 --> 01:12:01,240 damn, you were like right on. And you didn't even know it, you 1211 01:12:01,240 --> 01:12:04,240 know, like that. So that's always really 1212 01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:07,080 brilliant. And sometimes I see things, some 1213 01:12:07,080 --> 01:12:09,720 books I'll read two or three times and see it in a whole 1214 01:12:09,720 --> 01:12:13,560 nother way because I've got more time and experience under my 1215 01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:16,880 belt. One of the great books I reread, 1216 01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:19,280 which was, which was challenging, but I loved it. 1217 01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:23,360 I just finished rereading it for the research for this one. 1218 01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:27,960 It's called The Antipodes of the Mind by Benny Shannon. 1219 01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:31,880 Have you ever heard of it? I have not, I'll have to check 1220 01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:34,480 it out. He's, he's a cognitive 1221 01:12:34,480 --> 01:12:39,520 psychologist and he writes about ayahuasca and his experiences 1222 01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:42,840 with it from the perspective of being a cognitive psychologist 1223 01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:46,680 as opposed to totally like spiritual or an anthropologist 1224 01:12:46,680 --> 01:12:50,360 or, or any of that from a cognitive psychologist. 1225 01:12:51,480 --> 01:12:56,960 So he really struggles to keep the scientific method in place 1226 01:12:56,960 --> 01:13:02,480 on something that defies it. And I thought it was a really 1227 01:13:02,480 --> 01:13:06,960 wonderful, both times I read it, perspective because you want to 1228 01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:09,360 look at stuff like especially ayahuasca. 1229 01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:11,360 I mean, ayahuasca is full of mystery no matter what. 1230 01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:14,280 That's one of the conclusions he came to at the end of. 1231 01:13:14,480 --> 01:13:16,440 And that's a big book that's pretty thick. 1232 01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:23,600 But the idea of somebody with that different perspective 1233 01:13:23,600 --> 01:13:28,440 looking at it that way, like for me, the definition of insight is 1234 01:13:28,440 --> 01:13:31,080 to look at something from this way and that way and that way. 1235 01:13:31,080 --> 01:13:32,720 Look at it. What does the anthropologist 1236 01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:33,840 say? What does the cognitive 1237 01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:36,840 psychologist say? What does the psychiatrist say? 1238 01:13:37,840 --> 01:13:39,840 You know, what does the archaeologist say? 1239 01:13:40,480 --> 01:13:43,600 And you look at all of those. And then it's like looking into 1240 01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:46,320 a room from like different windows and maybe through the 1241 01:13:46,320 --> 01:13:48,240 ceiling. That to me is how you really 1242 01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:53,160 gain insight into something. So for me, I'd read all this 1243 01:13:53,160 --> 01:13:55,600 stuff about ayahuasca before I ever did it. 1244 01:13:57,960 --> 01:14:01,960 And then I did tons of ayahuasca and then I went back and reread 1245 01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:03,960 whatever the first time I'm like, yeah, right on. 1246 01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:07,000 And oh, that's what he means. And Oh yeah, I get that, you 1247 01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:11,960 know, like that. So it's a constant process of, 1248 01:14:12,120 --> 01:14:15,120 of growing and, and being a writer. 1249 01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:19,120 And for me, I would, I, I guess I could say writer slash 1250 01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:22,040 lecturer. And the fact that I've done, you 1251 01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:24,360 know, I'm doing a great podcast with people like you and you 1252 01:14:24,360 --> 01:14:28,480 know, coast to coast, all those things where I do so well. 1253 01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:35,040 I'm a communicator and writing is the art of communicating. 1254 01:14:35,400 --> 01:14:40,000 And I've learned to, I spent my life refining the art of 1255 01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:42,240 communicating with the written word and otherwise. 1256 01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:48,600 And I'm always messing around with words in my head, turn them 1257 01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:50,760 around backwards and saying them backwards. 1258 01:14:50,760 --> 01:14:55,680 And you know, you got your birds all wicked up. 1259 01:14:57,040 --> 01:14:59,240 You know, Chuck, you Farley, whatever. 1260 01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:01,240 You know, I'm always going through my head. 1261 01:15:01,240 --> 01:15:03,160 And every once in awhile a funny pun will come up. 1262 01:15:03,800 --> 01:15:06,640 You know, one of the things I've been saying lately, I don't know 1263 01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:10,520 if it's original, but people will say to me, oh, yo, you 1264 01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:13,560 know, you're a good writer and you're a great teacher and 1265 01:15:13,560 --> 01:15:15,800 you're a very good, you know, you're a great writer and blah, 1266 01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:16,280 blah. That's it. 1267 01:15:16,280 --> 01:15:19,800 And I'll and I'll always say I'm a legend in my own mind. 1268 01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:22,520 That's as far as I go. The rest of it. 1269 01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:27,200 Thank you, nice to hear. But I'm not, I'm not doing it 1270 01:15:27,200 --> 01:15:30,400 for that. I'm doing it because I feel it's 1271 01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:33,560 important to communicate knowledge. 1272 01:15:34,360 --> 01:15:38,360 And I think ultimately if you continue in with this work, you 1273 01:15:38,360 --> 01:15:41,600 start just gaining more of, for lack of better words, more of a 1274 01:15:41,600 --> 01:15:46,680 cosmological perspective, bigger picture, and you see things. 1275 01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:50,920 I, I don't think when people say like dissolving your ego, I 1276 01:15:50,920 --> 01:15:53,960 think we've talked about this in the past too, like you need your 1277 01:15:53,960 --> 01:15:55,560 ego. It's all just about what you 1278 01:15:55,640 --> 01:15:59,080 feed your ego. Without your ego, how could you 1279 01:15:59,080 --> 01:16:01,640 become the best at anything? Because there's a certain level 1280 01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:09,120 of competitiveness or like drive to become, you know, known or 1281 01:16:09,120 --> 01:16:13,040 drive to get something that you feel super important out there 1282 01:16:13,040 --> 01:16:16,240 or something along those lines. So when people are like, oh man, 1283 01:16:16,240 --> 01:16:19,400 I totally dissolved my ego. And then, you know, a year 1284 01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:22,240 later, they're the biggest asshole you ever met again, you 1285 01:16:22,240 --> 01:16:26,000 know, so I think it's just about what you feed your ego, you 1286 01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:29,160 know, like I, you know, I, I have an ego, you have an ego. 1287 01:16:29,160 --> 01:16:32,560 Like everybody's got an ego. Even if you dissolve it for the 1288 01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:35,400 duration of an experience, it's going to come back. 1289 01:16:35,400 --> 01:16:39,640 So it's more about how you cultivate it than how you're, 1290 01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:43,600 you know, bolstering yourself up or whatever. 1291 01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:49,640 But I wanted to ask you, so you know, usually consciousness 1292 01:16:49,640 --> 01:16:54,760 studies, they split materialism and idealism. 1293 01:16:55,160 --> 01:16:56,520 Yeah. What? 1294 01:16:57,040 --> 01:16:59,760 What have you found through your own experiences? 1295 01:16:59,760 --> 01:17:03,400 Like where do you stand on that debate personally based on 1296 01:17:03,400 --> 01:17:07,200 everything you've experienced? Two things very quick. 1297 01:17:08,880 --> 01:17:12,560 I don't consider it's ego. I always like to say I'm a cast 1298 01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:18,000 of thousands. I'm a multi edit infinite Hydra 1299 01:17:19,240 --> 01:17:23,600 of psycho, some not so psycho sub personalities. 1300 01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:27,080 And one of my coaches told me years ago you don't kill your 1301 01:17:27,080 --> 01:17:32,160 egos, you give them a new job. So I like that anyway. 1302 01:17:32,320 --> 01:17:35,720 I had to get that out and then you were just asking about. 1303 01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:39,360 Yeah, like consciousness materialism. 1304 01:17:39,360 --> 01:17:40,720 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Idealism. 1305 01:17:41,360 --> 01:17:43,600 Yeah. I got into that a lot in my 1306 01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:47,040 other book, one of the longest book titles ever. 1307 01:17:48,120 --> 01:17:50,640 The center of the universe is right between your eyes, but 1308 01:17:50,640 --> 01:17:55,480 home is where the heart is. Because here's the thing, you 1309 01:17:55,480 --> 01:17:58,200 can't really change the outside world. 1310 01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:02,400 I can't change what's going on in freaking politics. 1311 01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:05,160 I can't personally can't really change what's going on in 1312 01:18:05,160 --> 01:18:07,800 Ukraine or Gaza and all that insanity. 1313 01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:13,600 I can't change any of that. But I'm in charge of my 1314 01:18:13,600 --> 01:18:18,200 conscious awareness and I can choose where I wanted to invest 1315 01:18:18,200 --> 01:18:23,400 my energy or not. So therefore I get the choice to 1316 01:18:23,400 --> 01:18:27,440 create my reality within my mind because I have. 1317 01:18:27,680 --> 01:18:31,800 We all have all these different perceptions and thoughts and 1318 01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:34,480 feelings and emotions and energies and microwaves and 1319 01:18:34,480 --> 01:18:40,040 convolution all is coming at us, but we get to choose what we 1320 01:18:40,040 --> 01:18:44,480 make of it. So I could see a guy walking 1321 01:18:44,480 --> 01:18:46,720 down the street and thinking he's going to shoot me or stab 1322 01:18:46,720 --> 01:18:49,440 me and be paranoid and have high blood pressure and maybe have a 1323 01:18:49,440 --> 01:18:52,040 heart attack because I'm all freaking out over something and 1324 01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:55,520 has no reality except some fear that I have that might be based 1325 01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:59,880 on a past experience. Or I can cruise on and say, hi, 1326 01:18:59,880 --> 01:19:04,320 how you doing? Or I can say I don't even care 1327 01:19:04,320 --> 01:19:08,800 about you don't even exist. I'm more focused on that we get 1328 01:19:08,800 --> 01:19:13,240 to choose where our conscious awareness of and that's the 1329 01:19:13,240 --> 01:19:15,920 whole concept of mindfulness and being in the moment. 1330 01:19:17,520 --> 01:19:21,600 So when the little monkey mind cycle monkey lunatics all pop up 1331 01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:23,920 in my head, which they're there all the time having a blast. 1332 01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:27,600 That old homunculi. Yeah, and I'm looking at them. 1333 01:19:27,600 --> 01:19:29,480 And if there's something really stupid, I'll go. 1334 01:19:29,560 --> 01:19:31,320 I do it in a loving way, but I'll go. 1335 01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:33,560 Look, you shut the fuck up and go to your room. 1336 01:19:33,560 --> 01:19:35,160 Daddy's home. I'm not listening to your shit. 1337 01:19:35,600 --> 01:19:36,920 So just go to your room. I hear you. 1338 01:19:37,040 --> 01:19:38,320 OK, now shut up and go to your room. 1339 01:19:39,080 --> 01:19:42,120 And I do it in a loving way, but I pay attention. 1340 01:19:43,400 --> 01:19:46,480 And you can watch people, if you observe people really closely. 1341 01:19:48,080 --> 01:19:50,840 And you can watch sometimes the expressions that go across their 1342 01:19:50,840 --> 01:19:53,800 face, sometimes a bunch of times, even in a minute. 1343 01:19:54,840 --> 01:19:57,520 To me, it's like you can see the little sub personalities popping 1344 01:19:57,560 --> 01:20:04,520 up and, and you know, they work together and they're very 1345 01:20:04,520 --> 01:20:09,880 insidious and they all do their little thing and they all have 1346 01:20:09,880 --> 01:20:13,040 agendas. But you got to acknowledge them, 1347 01:20:14,600 --> 01:20:17,400 sometimes even let them out to play. 1348 01:20:19,040 --> 01:20:21,280 But keep an eye. It's like having kids, right? 1349 01:20:21,280 --> 01:20:24,040 You got a kid, right? You watch your kid, you may let 1350 01:20:24,040 --> 01:20:25,680 them run to the edge of something of the snap, but 1351 01:20:25,680 --> 01:20:27,600 you're watching and you'll get them. 1352 01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:29,280 You'll let them go out as far as it's safe. 1353 01:20:29,280 --> 01:20:32,640 And then if you think there's a boundary that's not good, you 1354 01:20:32,680 --> 01:20:35,960 you're going to intervene and make sure they're safe. 1355 01:20:36,200 --> 01:20:38,360 But you want to give them a little bit of a leeway to run 1356 01:20:38,360 --> 01:20:41,000 around and start exploring those things. 1357 01:20:42,000 --> 01:20:46,280 Yeah, I'm, I'm way less, way less laid back than my wife, 1358 01:20:46,520 --> 01:20:49,800 which is, you know, I'm just, I'm just an overly cautious 1359 01:20:49,800 --> 01:20:52,200 person in general. So I kind of look to her because 1360 01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:56,160 she's more of a rational, yeah, you know, in that regard, but. 1361 01:20:56,560 --> 01:20:59,800 Yeah, it's what you do. You know, when kids are really 1362 01:20:59,800 --> 01:21:04,240 acting up and they're being a problem, they're looking for 1363 01:21:04,240 --> 01:21:08,480 where the boundaries are. And sometimes you got to step in 1364 01:21:08,480 --> 01:21:11,920 and be the bad guy and say no, you know, you don't do this or 1365 01:21:11,920 --> 01:21:13,680 that because you're going to hurt yourself or whatever. 1366 01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:16,680 And a lot of people don't like to do that. 1367 01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:18,880 But that's why the kids are acting up. 1368 01:21:18,880 --> 01:21:20,600 They want to know where the boundaries are so they know 1369 01:21:20,600 --> 01:21:23,880 where the safety is. You know once you mean. 1370 01:21:24,080 --> 01:21:25,440 How do you learn? I mean, that's how they're 1371 01:21:25,440 --> 01:21:27,760 getting. They got to get that first hand 1372 01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:29,480 knowledge. You know, it's like the old 1373 01:21:29,480 --> 01:21:34,400 thing, you know, I can tell you don't touch the stove, but most 1374 01:21:34,400 --> 01:21:36,600 people are going to still touch that stove and they're going to 1375 01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:39,840 have to find out from first hand experience, you know? 1376 01:21:39,840 --> 01:21:42,200 That is right. That's the best, best way to 1377 01:21:42,200 --> 01:21:45,360 learn. Exactly, exactly. 1378 01:21:45,360 --> 01:21:49,600 So, you know, that's that's the way to look at it. 1379 01:21:49,680 --> 01:21:55,600 There's a you ever hear of ifs? Well, it's called Internal 1380 01:21:55,600 --> 01:21:58,280 Family systems and somebody turned me on to it a while back. 1381 01:21:58,280 --> 01:22:00,320 And when I read it, I'm like, oh, that's what I've been doing 1382 01:22:00,320 --> 01:22:03,520 all along. And it basically says that we 1383 01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:05,880 all have a like I say a cast of thousands. 1384 01:22:05,880 --> 01:22:09,760 We all have a bunch of disparate, some personalities 1385 01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:12,680 inside of us with different agendas, some unified, some 1386 01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:16,400 conflicting. And the idea is, I like to say 1387 01:22:16,400 --> 01:22:18,800 the idea is to get the whole band to start singing the same 1388 01:22:18,800 --> 01:22:22,320 tune together. And then you're not worried 1389 01:22:22,320 --> 01:22:24,520 about what happened in the past or what might happen in the 1390 01:22:24,520 --> 01:22:27,440 future or all that. You're present and you're fully 1391 01:22:27,440 --> 01:22:28,960 present in the moment here and now. 1392 01:22:29,720 --> 01:22:32,280 So you're more focused on what's happening, and so you're more 1393 01:22:32,280 --> 01:22:34,760 aware. That is really the definition of 1394 01:22:34,760 --> 01:22:36,560 mindfulness. That's what meditation's all 1395 01:22:36,560 --> 01:22:39,040 about, is to try to cultivate that. 1396 01:22:39,720 --> 01:22:42,080 So you're paying attention because it's all about paying 1397 01:22:42,080 --> 01:22:43,920 attention and paying what is paying attention. 1398 01:22:44,200 --> 01:22:47,320 Paying attention is awareness, right? 1399 01:22:48,000 --> 01:22:49,760 The more you're paying attention, the more aware you 1400 01:22:49,800 --> 01:22:51,080 are. And isn't that the path to 1401 01:22:51,080 --> 01:22:53,000 higher consciousness, so to speak? 1402 01:22:53,000 --> 01:22:57,040 Right, Higher awareness. I think some people, I mean, 1403 01:22:57,040 --> 01:22:59,000 look, there's different types of meditation. 1404 01:22:59,760 --> 01:23:02,920 Yeah, sure. You know, there's, I think a lot 1405 01:23:02,920 --> 01:23:05,320 of people think that you're just supposed to completely clear 1406 01:23:05,320 --> 01:23:12,000 your mind. And I know that's kind of what a 1407 01:23:12,000 --> 01:23:16,960 lot of spiritual teachers teach too, you know, like this loss of 1408 01:23:16,960 --> 01:23:20,680 self or nothingness or something along the even though that's I 1409 01:23:20,680 --> 01:23:24,360 think that's still impossible to achieve because even if you 1410 01:23:24,360 --> 01:23:26,480 think of nothing, you're still thinking of something. 1411 01:23:26,520 --> 01:23:30,920 So, but it depends. I know people like I have for 1412 01:23:30,920 --> 01:23:35,800 me, I used to meditate and try and just block everything out 1413 01:23:35,800 --> 01:23:39,640 and just experience whatever these light forms and different 1414 01:23:39,640 --> 01:23:43,360 things and all this weirdness. And then there's also a 1415 01:23:43,360 --> 01:23:46,880 meditation I like to do. Maybe, you know, you take a 1416 01:23:46,880 --> 01:23:50,880 couple hits and you know, you're in close your eyes and you know, 1417 01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:54,320 it's more of like a a fact, not a fact. 1418 01:23:54,320 --> 01:23:58,720 Finding mission, inspiration, finding mission where you go on 1419 01:23:58,720 --> 01:24:01,360 a little journey in your own mind and find some sort of 1420 01:24:01,360 --> 01:24:04,640 inspiration for your creative process or something that'll 1421 01:24:04,640 --> 01:24:07,040 help you. Or so yeah, I think that there's 1422 01:24:07,040 --> 01:24:13,080 different aspects to that. So I was gonna ask you too, how 1423 01:24:13,080 --> 01:24:20,240 do you like, how do you reconcile mystical insight with 1424 01:24:20,560 --> 01:24:25,360 rational thought or philosophy? And can they coexist, or are 1425 01:24:25,360 --> 01:24:28,440 they just like fundamentally different languages? 1426 01:24:30,320 --> 01:24:34,640 The different languages that are trying to figure each other out. 1427 01:24:35,800 --> 01:24:39,480 So I you, you heard me say this before, but I think you might 1428 01:24:39,480 --> 01:24:42,480 find this interesting in context of this discussion here. 1429 01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:52,240 When you go to sleep at night, at some point, not everybody has 1430 01:24:52,240 --> 01:24:57,120 dream memory and all that, but at some point your logical brain 1431 01:24:58,520 --> 01:25:04,200 takes a rest and your other side comes out, your creative, 1432 01:25:04,440 --> 01:25:10,080 emotional, intuitional side as opposed to the logical side, the 1433 01:25:10,080 --> 01:25:15,440 feminine side, and it speaks in a language that's almost alien. 1434 01:25:17,520 --> 01:25:21,800 When you have a dream, that brain's talking, the other one's 1435 01:25:21,800 --> 01:25:25,840 kind of taking a rest right when you wake up. 1436 01:25:27,080 --> 01:25:30,760 The left logical side that's been trying to figure things 1437 01:25:30,760 --> 01:25:32,720 out, tries to make sense of the dream. 1438 01:25:33,560 --> 01:25:36,680 That's why dreams are so weird and dreams recalls weird 1439 01:25:36,680 --> 01:25:40,920 emotional symbolism and conceptual creative. 1440 01:25:40,920 --> 01:25:44,840 It's not linear, logical, word after word. 1441 01:25:45,200 --> 01:25:48,640 It's overwhelmingly and it has emotion tied in with it and it's 1442 01:25:48,640 --> 01:25:56,120 just it's alien. Now when you drink ayahuasca, 1443 01:25:58,320 --> 01:26:02,600 your right brain wakes up, but your left brain doesn't go to 1444 01:26:02,600 --> 01:26:06,440 sleep like in dreaming. So then you get the right brain 1445 01:26:06,440 --> 01:26:10,280 going off with its emotional, physical, visual, conceptual, 1446 01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:16,360 musical, rhythmic, all that non rational stops going like crazy 1447 01:26:16,960 --> 01:26:20,200 and it overwhelms the left side. It's too much, it's too much 1448 01:26:20,200 --> 01:26:25,440 parallel processing, too much intuition, it's overload and the 1449 01:26:25,440 --> 01:26:29,000 left more often than not can't make heads or tails out of it. 1450 01:26:30,760 --> 01:26:33,520 When you pass through that experience and you come back to 1451 01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:37,680 quote, UN quote baseline consciousness, that is exactly 1452 01:26:37,680 --> 01:26:42,360 what what integration is, is the left brain trying to figure out 1453 01:26:42,400 --> 01:26:44,320 everything that happened with the right brain which 1454 01:26:44,320 --> 01:26:46,320 overwhelmed it. Because it's a lot more powerful 1455 01:26:46,320 --> 01:26:48,800 in that way with with the emotions evolved and all that. 1456 01:26:50,280 --> 01:26:52,680 And it ties in with something you kind of referred to a little 1457 01:26:52,680 --> 01:26:59,520 while ago. You're trying to make sense of 1458 01:26:59,520 --> 01:27:05,160 that experience that defies logic, and yet it's very 1459 01:27:05,160 --> 01:27:10,280 powerful and very profound. So in many respects, and I tell 1460 01:27:10,280 --> 01:27:12,600 us to people all the time, in many respects, it's the time 1461 01:27:12,600 --> 01:27:15,080 outside of the ceremonies that are more important than the 1462 01:27:15,080 --> 01:27:17,360 ceremonies themselves. Because you can have all these 1463 01:27:17,360 --> 01:27:20,200 insights and all this stuff that happened in epiphanies and 1464 01:27:20,200 --> 01:27:22,520 stuff. But when you go in your 1465 01:27:22,520 --> 01:27:25,880 everyday, quote UN quote, waking consciousness, baseline life, 1466 01:27:26,360 --> 01:27:28,840 and you're challenged by all these things that you consider 1467 01:27:28,840 --> 01:27:32,560 to maybe even be absolute truths under a visionary state, and 1468 01:27:32,560 --> 01:27:34,120 then you're confronted in real life with it. 1469 01:27:34,840 --> 01:27:38,280 That's where the work is done. Then what are you going to do? 1470 01:27:38,680 --> 01:27:40,800 You're going to fall down the rabbit hole like you used to. 1471 01:27:40,800 --> 01:27:44,280 You're going to go, oh shit, now I've seen that from this side 1472 01:27:44,280 --> 01:27:45,920 that I never saw it that way before. 1473 01:27:46,120 --> 01:27:48,160 Look what's happening there. It is popping its head. 1474 01:27:48,320 --> 01:27:50,680 And I always love to say right about the time you got something 1475 01:27:50,680 --> 01:27:52,840 figured out is right when you're going to get your ass handed to 1476 01:27:52,840 --> 01:27:57,520 you without fail. So. 1477 01:27:58,400 --> 01:28:03,560 I mean it it to, to. So I do think that what you're 1478 01:28:03,560 --> 01:28:06,760 saying is 100% true. And actually to that point, I 1479 01:28:06,760 --> 01:28:12,160 actually started writing down these epiphanies and profound 1480 01:28:12,160 --> 01:28:16,080 things in these experiences because when you come out of 1481 01:28:16,080 --> 01:28:20,240 them, it's almost like a dream. Like you were like, oh, how was 1482 01:28:20,240 --> 01:28:24,640 I 'cause you're, you're in a different state of mind now and 1483 01:28:24,640 --> 01:28:29,080 you're not, your mind isn't able to make the connections or 1484 01:28:29,400 --> 01:28:32,640 contextualize what you were experiencing in that state. 1485 01:28:33,200 --> 01:28:35,240 That's right. Did you ever read any Carlos 1486 01:28:35,240 --> 01:28:38,160 Castaneda? I have not. 1487 01:28:38,160 --> 01:28:41,640 I look, I somebody kind of turned me off. 1488 01:28:41,640 --> 01:28:43,160 They said, oh, he's full of shit. 1489 01:28:43,160 --> 01:28:46,680 Not everything's a lie. And so I never read that's I 1490 01:28:46,680 --> 01:28:48,280 don't know anything about it. That's just what. 1491 01:28:48,960 --> 01:28:51,760 A couple people, I read a bunch of them and they were the thing, 1492 01:28:51,760 --> 01:28:53,240 especially when I when I was like 18. 1493 01:28:53,440 --> 01:28:55,480 So what do you think? Do you think there's legitimacy 1494 01:28:55,480 --> 01:28:59,320 to it, or do you think it was? It's a, it's a little bit of 1495 01:28:59,320 --> 01:29:03,520 both my, my anthropology professor went to UCLA with him 1496 01:29:05,200 --> 01:29:09,720 and he and he told me that the shaman Don Juan was actually 1497 01:29:09,720 --> 01:29:12,360 amalgam of a bunch of different people that he had met and 1498 01:29:12,360 --> 01:29:16,040 worked with. And some of it was made out, but 1499 01:29:16,040 --> 01:29:18,600 it was a, but it was a perspective and a philosophy. 1500 01:29:18,600 --> 01:29:21,120 So I got into an argument with a guy on the radio about this one 1501 01:29:21,120 --> 01:29:27,240 time. I shot him up years ago because 1502 01:29:27,240 --> 01:29:30,400 it doesn't matter if even the stories are a liar, it doesn't 1503 01:29:30,400 --> 01:29:32,320 mean they they can't contain truth. 1504 01:29:33,840 --> 01:29:37,160 Oh, absolutely. I just, I guess somebody maybe 1505 01:29:37,160 --> 01:29:41,680 kind of portrayed them as more of like like a trickster, like 1506 01:29:41,680 --> 01:29:44,080 maybe trying to pawn off things. He was. 1507 01:29:44,240 --> 01:29:47,200 Yeah, some degree he was. Yeah, some degree he was there. 1508 01:29:47,240 --> 01:29:49,440 Something but to your point though, maybe there there's 1509 01:29:49,440 --> 01:29:51,280 Nuggets in there. Obviously I'll I'll definitely 1510 01:29:51,280 --> 01:29:53,200 check it out. I just, I haven't heard that 1511 01:29:53,200 --> 01:29:55,560 name in a little bit so. Oh it's fine. 1512 01:29:55,560 --> 01:29:56,960 I read all the books like 3 times. 1513 01:29:57,000 --> 01:29:58,440 I read all the books critical of him. 1514 01:30:00,600 --> 01:30:02,640 Sure this holds in it. But you know, I always like to 1515 01:30:02,640 --> 01:30:05,880 say, and you may have heard me say this before, in this day and 1516 01:30:05,880 --> 01:30:11,120 age, journalism, which is supposed to be about truth, is 1517 01:30:11,120 --> 01:30:15,720 more often than not a lie. Fiction, by its very definition 1518 01:30:15,720 --> 01:30:18,840 being a lie, is more often than not about truth. 1519 01:30:20,320 --> 01:30:23,440 I mean, where do we get our best news from the fucking comedians, 1520 01:30:23,440 --> 01:30:27,240 right? I mean, so you got to listen to 1521 01:30:27,240 --> 01:30:30,760 all of it, even like mythologies, whether Jesus lived 1522 01:30:30,760 --> 01:30:32,520 or not or did these things or not. 1523 01:30:33,000 --> 01:30:36,280 Listen to the story, see what it's got to tell you. 1524 01:30:37,040 --> 01:30:39,680 Yeah, you could make that argue like I, I actually that's a good 1525 01:30:39,680 --> 01:30:42,160 analogy because you can make the argument like, doesn't matter if 1526 01:30:42,200 --> 01:30:45,560 Jesus rose from the dead, if he was this great person that did 1527 01:30:45,560 --> 01:30:50,080 these great things, he's still an amazing example of a human 1528 01:30:50,080 --> 01:30:53,560 being, you know, in a, in a time when people were terrible 1529 01:30:53,560 --> 01:30:55,840 people. Let's be real. 1530 01:30:56,640 --> 01:30:58,920 Story of the prodigal son and all that, right? 1531 01:30:58,920 --> 01:31:04,920 And listen to what's being said. Don't, don't shoot the messenger 1532 01:31:05,200 --> 01:31:07,160 or crucify him or whatever, right? 1533 01:31:08,480 --> 01:31:14,440 Like that, right. But it, it, it, it's interesting 1534 01:31:14,440 --> 01:31:17,160 when you think about it and getting touching back on myths 1535 01:31:17,160 --> 01:31:19,600 and stuff like that. And even in writing. 1536 01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:25,760 And I was talking about like significant details and putting 1537 01:31:25,760 --> 01:31:30,800 people there and all that. The more you type, the more you 1538 01:31:30,800 --> 01:31:37,800 lead toward archetypes, the more you are heading toward universal 1539 01:31:37,800 --> 01:31:43,280 truths, and the more you tap on the archetypes of universal 1540 01:31:43,280 --> 01:31:45,520 truths, the more people are going to relate because we can 1541 01:31:45,520 --> 01:31:49,840 all relate to archetypes because they're bigger concepts. 1542 01:31:51,000 --> 01:31:53,480 You know, I'm sure you know this, and you probably heard me 1543 01:31:53,480 --> 01:31:58,320 say this before, but you look at Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, 1544 01:31:58,320 --> 01:32:01,200 Star Wars, they all follow the hero's journey. 1545 01:32:02,600 --> 01:32:06,840 All phenomenal pieces of work. They're they're because they hit 1546 01:32:06,840 --> 01:32:10,480 the archetypes and that's why they're so universally loved and 1547 01:32:10,480 --> 01:32:12,920 known and accepted and embraced. Because they. 1548 01:32:12,960 --> 01:32:15,880 Joseph Campbell Little formulation there. 1549 01:32:16,360 --> 01:32:19,440 Yeah, Universal archetypes. The more you can hit those 1550 01:32:19,440 --> 01:32:22,560 things, the more people can relate, because that's what you 1551 01:32:22,560 --> 01:32:24,880 want to do when you want to communicate is you want to reach 1552 01:32:24,880 --> 01:32:27,800 your target audience and write it. 1553 01:32:28,000 --> 01:32:30,920 But you have to share in a way that makes it accessible to them 1554 01:32:30,920 --> 01:32:34,520 so they can make sense out of it hopefully, or just to get them 1555 01:32:34,520 --> 01:32:37,720 to even think differently or see things in a way they may not 1556 01:32:37,720 --> 01:32:41,000 have looked at before. Right, absolutely. 1557 01:32:41,800 --> 01:32:44,080 Listen, let's do this new segment. 1558 01:32:44,560 --> 01:32:48,680 I don't know if you're ready for it, but and then after we'll hit 1559 01:32:48,680 --> 01:32:50,760 a couple more things and then we'll wrap it up. 1560 01:32:51,160 --> 01:32:56,040 But Matthew Palomari, Are you ready for Mike's Mind Melters? 1561 01:32:57,720 --> 01:33:19,460 Melt me, baby. All right, Matthew, I'm going to 1562 01:33:19,460 --> 01:33:21,900 ask you 5 philosophical questions. 1563 01:33:22,980 --> 01:33:24,380 Just answer them the best you can. 1564 01:33:24,660 --> 01:33:29,460 Now I've been changing out the 5th question to just get this 1565 01:33:29,460 --> 01:33:32,080 formula correct. And I think I've, I said this 1566 01:33:32,080 --> 01:33:34,320 last time, but I really think that this is going to be the 1567 01:33:34,320 --> 01:33:38,160 final formulation cause the goal is to ask the same 5 questions 1568 01:33:38,160 --> 01:33:40,120 to everybody. But the 5th question's been kind 1569 01:33:40,120 --> 01:33:43,640 of evolving a little bit. So but here, here we go. 1570 01:33:44,440 --> 01:33:48,960 Number one, what is something you believe in that you know is 1571 01:33:48,960 --> 01:33:53,200 probably wrong or illogical, but you are just not being honest 1572 01:33:53,200 --> 01:34:04,920 with yourself? The government, I'm pretty 1573 01:34:04,920 --> 01:34:11,040 brutal with myself actually, and I'm always open to finding out. 1574 01:34:11,040 --> 01:34:15,200 If something doesn't fit my paradigm, then I'll let it go 1575 01:34:15,800 --> 01:34:19,800 and create something new. You know, when you, when you 1576 01:34:19,800 --> 01:34:24,280 create something like we probably talked at some point 1577 01:34:24,280 --> 01:34:28,920 about cymatics, where you send a particular wavelength, frequency 1578 01:34:28,920 --> 01:34:32,960 and amplitude and you get a pattern and if you increase it, 1579 01:34:32,960 --> 01:34:36,440 the pattern will dissolve into chaos and then it'll reform 1580 01:34:36,440 --> 01:34:40,680 again in a more complex pattern. And if you continue doing it, 1581 01:34:40,680 --> 01:34:43,240 it'll go through permutations of that, each one being more 1582 01:34:43,640 --> 01:34:45,400 complex and sophisticated than the other. 1583 01:34:45,720 --> 01:34:49,680 That's my model for the, for the evolution of consciousness. 1584 01:34:51,000 --> 01:34:54,720 So I have all my beliefs, so to speak, and I hold on to them. 1585 01:34:54,720 --> 01:34:57,640 But if I find something that's challenging, I'll explore it, 1586 01:34:58,800 --> 01:35:01,760 and if it happens to shatter it, I'm willing to let it all go and 1587 01:35:03,160 --> 01:35:06,880 see what comes. Reforms back with with the new 1588 01:35:06,880 --> 01:35:09,720 knowledge integrated somehow. It's kind of a roundabout 1589 01:35:09,720 --> 01:35:11,840 answer, but. No, that's great. 1590 01:35:11,840 --> 01:35:15,240 You just have an ever evolving philosophy, which I think most 1591 01:35:15,240 --> 01:35:17,880 people should have. But I mean we all have cognitive 1592 01:35:17,880 --> 01:35:20,240 biases and blind spots. So that's why I asked that 1593 01:35:20,240 --> 01:35:22,080 question. Some people aren't honest with 1594 01:35:22,080 --> 01:35:26,520 themselves and I think that that yeah, I think that can be 1595 01:35:26,520 --> 01:35:28,960 uncomfortable for some people. But I've. 1596 01:35:28,960 --> 01:35:32,000 Probably done a few things where I'm where I'm like I'm I think 1597 01:35:32,000 --> 01:35:34,800 I'm great and I'm really a Dick, but you know, I'm working at 1598 01:35:34,800 --> 01:35:40,680 trying to track them down all. Right, all right #2 do you think 1599 01:35:40,680 --> 01:35:45,000 there is an objective purpose for humanity, and if So, what? 1600 01:35:46,960 --> 01:35:50,160 Yeah, I think this will probably sound weird. 1601 01:35:50,160 --> 01:35:52,600 It might get me in trouble. But I think the objective 1602 01:35:52,600 --> 01:35:55,400 purpose of humanity is to discover that we're God. 1603 01:35:58,240 --> 01:36:02,840 I think I, I, I freaked out one of my grandnephews. 1604 01:36:04,080 --> 01:36:05,760 He said to me, this is a few years ago. 1605 01:36:05,760 --> 01:36:07,080 He said to me, do you believe in God? 1606 01:36:07,080 --> 01:36:09,720 And I said, I am God. And he was freaking out. 1607 01:36:10,000 --> 01:36:14,360 He was going to a church. So do you mean just just just to 1608 01:36:14,360 --> 01:36:18,600 parse that out, do you mean like we're all pieces of one greater 1609 01:36:18,600 --> 01:36:21,800 being like experiencing itself or something along those lines? 1610 01:36:21,800 --> 01:36:23,640 Yeah, yeah. I mean, what else? 1611 01:36:23,800 --> 01:36:25,440 If we weren't here to self reflect? 1612 01:36:25,960 --> 01:36:28,440 I always, I, I got atheist friends. 1613 01:36:28,440 --> 01:36:32,000 I always like to bust their chops when I can because I tell 1614 01:36:32,000 --> 01:36:34,320 somebody. If you tell me you're an 1615 01:36:34,320 --> 01:36:40,440 atheist, you're telling me you're God because you made the 1616 01:36:40,440 --> 01:36:42,960 ultimate decision whether God exists or not. 1617 01:36:43,040 --> 01:36:46,600 If you say God doesn't exist, then you've just blotted God out 1618 01:36:46,600 --> 01:36:51,240 of existence. That makes you God, and if you 1619 01:36:51,240 --> 01:36:54,640 cease to exist, then there's nothing. 1620 01:36:55,840 --> 01:36:59,160 If you truly cease to exist, then there's nothing. 1621 01:37:00,280 --> 01:37:02,600 So that makes you the God. I like to think that we're all 1622 01:37:02,600 --> 01:37:08,000 gods of our own universes and I think that everybody in our 1623 01:37:08,000 --> 01:37:13,760 lives is a reflection of some aspect of ourselves and those 1624 01:37:13,760 --> 01:37:15,880 people in our lives who totally drive us. 1625 01:37:15,880 --> 01:37:22,040 Bog fog, those are our shadows. And we have other aspects that 1626 01:37:22,040 --> 01:37:25,120 really relate to like you and I got a great mind. 1627 01:37:25,120 --> 01:37:30,240 Now we, we see eye to eye on most things because there's 1628 01:37:30,240 --> 01:37:32,880 parts of me that reflect parts of you and parts of you that 1629 01:37:33,000 --> 01:37:36,800 reflect me. You know, people say to me, are 1630 01:37:36,800 --> 01:37:38,720 you a writer? And I tell you, talk about OCD, 1631 01:37:38,720 --> 01:37:40,200 right? I say, no, I'm an obsessive 1632 01:37:40,200 --> 01:37:44,520 fool, right? And, and being a writer, wanting 1633 01:37:44,520 --> 01:37:47,080 to get things right and getting the, the words is the best you 1634 01:37:47,080 --> 01:37:50,000 can get them and polished and punctuated and all that, you 1635 01:37:50,000 --> 01:37:53,160 know, there's that aspect to it. So I see everybody as a 1636 01:37:53,160 --> 01:37:56,440 reflection of who we are. And when I see somebody and they 1637 01:37:56,440 --> 01:37:59,360 rub me the wrong way, it makes me take a harder look at myself. 1638 01:38:00,560 --> 01:38:04,760 And there's always tons of resistance, but more often than 1639 01:38:04,760 --> 01:38:06,560 I find something that's been hidden in there. 1640 01:38:07,840 --> 01:38:11,320 So yeah. And then I'll tell other people, 1641 01:38:11,320 --> 01:38:15,640 you know, you know, religious people or spiritual people. 1642 01:38:15,640 --> 01:38:19,040 I say, do you believe it's God? God is everywhere. 1643 01:38:19,400 --> 01:38:23,760 Yeah. Well, then you're inside of God. 1644 01:38:23,760 --> 01:38:26,760 You're part of God and you're looking out and you get to make 1645 01:38:26,760 --> 01:38:29,040 the choice of what's real or what you want to believe or how 1646 01:38:29,040 --> 01:38:30,960 you want to act by what comes into you. 1647 01:38:30,960 --> 01:38:34,560 Like I was saying earlier with cognition and perception. 1648 01:38:35,560 --> 01:38:38,840 So the last little piece I'll say, and I put this in my book 1649 01:38:38,840 --> 01:38:43,320 and I did a podcast with the guy one time talking about shamanism 1650 01:38:43,320 --> 01:38:45,720 and wannabes and guru Itis and all that. 1651 01:38:47,640 --> 01:38:52,160 And I ended and I said everybody's a shaman only most 1652 01:38:52,160 --> 01:38:57,120 of us don't know it. So it has to do with that 1653 01:38:57,120 --> 01:38:59,800 reflection. I'll stop there. 1654 01:39:00,080 --> 01:39:01,760 OK, that's a. Good, that's a good answer. 1655 01:39:02,000 --> 01:39:08,280 Yeah #3 do you think? Do you think humans are special 1656 01:39:08,280 --> 01:39:10,440 or separate from the rest of nature? 1657 01:39:10,600 --> 01:39:14,200 If your answer is yes, please give me your best example or 1658 01:39:14,200 --> 01:39:20,240 explanation of why. We are nature, and if people say 1659 01:39:20,240 --> 01:39:22,720 that they don't believe that they're God, then then suddenly 1660 01:39:22,720 --> 01:39:24,400 they're separating themselves from God. 1661 01:39:25,480 --> 01:39:27,680 But if God is everywhere, how can you separate from something 1662 01:39:27,680 --> 01:39:30,760 that we're within? Under the same token, in 1663 01:39:30,760 --> 01:39:35,520 perspective, ecologically speaking, we're the Nexus of 1664 01:39:35,520 --> 01:39:39,560 life on this planet. I don't know that we're the 1665 01:39:39,560 --> 01:39:42,440 smartest. I don't know that we're 1666 01:39:42,440 --> 01:39:48,000 necessarily at the top because like, plants were here before 1667 01:39:48,000 --> 01:39:52,280 us, just because they don't speak or communicate and 1668 01:39:52,280 --> 01:39:56,320 perceive in the ways that we do, it doesn't make them any better 1669 01:39:56,320 --> 01:40:00,040 or worse. Maybe better, maybe smarter, but 1670 01:40:00,040 --> 01:40:02,280 we're inextricably part of the environment. 1671 01:40:02,840 --> 01:40:04,800 You know, one of the great things about the jungle is you 1672 01:40:04,800 --> 01:40:11,400 watch the cycle of life. So you'll have the bugs. 1673 01:40:12,360 --> 01:40:15,880 Something eats the bugs. Namely, maybe a frog eats the 1674 01:40:15,880 --> 01:40:17,880 bugs. Maybe a bird eats the frog. 1675 01:40:18,800 --> 01:40:23,280 Maybe a Jaguar eats the bird, maybe the Jaguar dies and then 1676 01:40:23,280 --> 01:40:26,840 the bugs eat the Jaguar and and then the frogs eat the bugs and 1677 01:40:26,840 --> 01:40:31,280 the birds eat the frog. You know, it's and we're part of 1678 01:40:31,280 --> 01:40:33,640 it. We're an integral part of it. 1679 01:40:33,960 --> 01:40:36,720 And it's a huge Symphony, every part of it. 1680 01:40:36,720 --> 01:40:39,480 The sights, the sounds, the smells, the, the interaction of 1681 01:40:39,480 --> 01:40:43,760 life, the symbiosis, you know, plants, you know how 1682 01:40:43,760 --> 01:40:46,440 hummingbirds pollinate flowers and how their beaks are 1683 01:40:46,440 --> 01:40:49,240 developed to go into the flowers and they and they pollinate 1684 01:40:49,240 --> 01:40:51,240 particular species. We're all part of it. 1685 01:40:52,200 --> 01:40:55,120 And what, what one of our biggest problems is, is we think 1686 01:40:55,120 --> 01:40:57,160 that we're separate from it. We think we're separate from 1687 01:40:57,160 --> 01:40:58,520 God. We think we're separate from the 1688 01:40:58,520 --> 01:41:03,320 environment, but we're not. And one of the, the lack of 1689 01:41:03,320 --> 01:41:06,600 better words, well, you know, without beating a dead horse, 1690 01:41:06,600 --> 01:41:10,320 but one of the downsides of technology is that sense of 1691 01:41:10,320 --> 01:41:14,880 separation from life. And I mean life overall. 1692 01:41:15,720 --> 01:41:18,480 You know, the sun goes up, the sun goes down, the seasons go 1693 01:41:18,480 --> 01:41:22,280 through, the seed goes in the ground and you know, it sprouts, 1694 01:41:22,280 --> 01:41:24,400 it blossoms, it grows, it reproduces. 1695 01:41:24,640 --> 01:41:29,440 We come along, we eat the fruit. You know, it's all intertwined. 1696 01:41:29,440 --> 01:41:31,840 We can't, we're part and parcel of it. 1697 01:41:32,960 --> 01:41:35,480 I have my other book, the holographic Cosmic man. 1698 01:41:36,440 --> 01:41:44,400 If you look at look at Mother Earth as an entity, and 1699 01:41:44,400 --> 01:41:47,000 Gurdjieff and other ones have said that is the temple of 1700 01:41:47,000 --> 01:41:49,040 Anthropocosmic man in Egypt, and it's a map. 1701 01:41:49,120 --> 01:41:51,400 They say it's a map of the human body and the cosmos. 1702 01:41:51,760 --> 01:41:54,200 Yes, the Temple of Man. Yes. 1703 01:41:54,360 --> 01:41:58,320 So that's why, that's why I consider it to be if we're all 1704 01:41:58,320 --> 01:42:02,680 universes ourselves, then we're a holographic representation of 1705 01:42:02,680 --> 01:42:05,680 the universe. So we could be a holographic 1706 01:42:05,680 --> 01:42:07,800 representation of the Earth, which is a holographic 1707 01:42:07,800 --> 01:42:11,280 representation of the cosmos. It's all, that's why it's, it's 1708 01:42:11,760 --> 01:42:15,680 holographic cosmic man. And then the golden mean, 1709 01:42:16,960 --> 01:42:20,640 because the golden mean is the perfect mathematical 1710 01:42:20,640 --> 01:42:24,520 representation of a hologram. And we're all intertwined with 1711 01:42:24,520 --> 01:42:26,240 each other. If you take a hologram and break 1712 01:42:26,240 --> 01:42:29,000 it down into individual pieces, you'll see the hole in each 1713 01:42:29,000 --> 01:42:33,040 piece. So that's my perspective on 1714 01:42:33,040 --> 01:42:35,840 reality based on my experience. It's like I always like to say 1715 01:42:36,440 --> 01:42:39,400 this is my perspective and this is my universe, which makes it 1716 01:42:39,400 --> 01:42:43,080 the truth for me, doesn't have to be for anybody else. 1717 01:42:43,080 --> 01:42:45,880 No, that's good. And actually, I mean, you're the 1718 01:42:45,880 --> 01:42:48,560 way you explained it, and nature and we're all part of God. 1719 01:42:48,560 --> 01:42:51,200 It sounds like you have a very Spinoza. 1720 01:42:51,200 --> 01:42:55,360 And from a philosophical standpoint of God, which is 1721 01:42:55,360 --> 01:42:58,120 Spinoza pretty much, you know, nature is God. 1722 01:42:58,120 --> 01:43:02,440 And actually that was kind of what Albert Einstein adopted as, 1723 01:43:03,520 --> 01:43:06,800 you know, his spiritual side of things, if you will. 1724 01:43:07,760 --> 01:43:14,800 Yeah, but question #4? I love how you say that. 1725 01:43:15,640 --> 01:43:17,560 What do you think happens when we die? 1726 01:43:20,040 --> 01:43:26,640 You know, have you ever heard of the Hathor's Tom Kenyon? 1727 01:43:28,400 --> 01:43:34,280 I love their stuff. And they said there's a few 1728 01:43:34,280 --> 01:43:37,880 things. They they said that when you 1729 01:43:37,880 --> 01:43:45,640 die, you don't necessarily have to go to the light or all that 1730 01:43:45,640 --> 01:43:48,080 stuff. You don't necessarily have to 1731 01:43:48,080 --> 01:43:52,520 make any decisions. If you just wait there and stay 1732 01:43:52,520 --> 01:43:58,200 in that state of pure awareness, then they say unlimited 1733 01:43:58,200 --> 01:43:59,800 possibilities will open up to you. 1734 01:44:01,800 --> 01:44:08,560 I think based on our experience in this plan of existence, that 1735 01:44:08,560 --> 01:44:12,840 if you've explored your consciousness as much as 1736 01:44:12,840 --> 01:44:16,520 possible, that you'll have a lot more flexibility. 1737 01:44:17,200 --> 01:44:21,640 They also said that if you're, if you're a follower of a guru, 1738 01:44:21,640 --> 01:44:26,680 I'll just use Jesus as an example, not making one. 1739 01:44:26,760 --> 01:44:29,400 It could be anybody, it could be Buddha, it could be Krishna, 1740 01:44:29,400 --> 01:44:34,000 whatever, whatever. But if you follow a guru, they 1741 01:44:34,000 --> 01:44:40,040 said that when you pass your, your guru was sort of obligated 1742 01:44:40,040 --> 01:44:43,680 to be there for you and take you into their realm. 1743 01:44:45,200 --> 01:44:46,600 That's great, except that they're in there. 1744 01:44:46,600 --> 01:44:48,920 You're in their realm, so they have to follow their roles in 1745 01:44:48,920 --> 01:44:53,000 their realm. So I like to keep my mind open 1746 01:44:53,920 --> 01:44:59,320 to unlimited possibilities of what can happen. 1747 01:44:59,880 --> 01:45:01,760 Now, there's a little Side Story. 1748 01:45:04,400 --> 01:45:08,120 I got my friend Jacques who just died couple two or three months 1749 01:45:08,120 --> 01:45:08,960 ago. Poloko Le. 1750 01:45:08,960 --> 01:45:10,400 I have never talked about him or not. 1751 01:45:11,560 --> 01:45:13,640 His music opens up the psychedelic salon. 1752 01:45:15,120 --> 01:45:20,000 He's the guy I first did 5 meo with back in 90. 8 Is this the 1753 01:45:20,000 --> 01:45:25,120 story you told of the ukulele player in Hawaii that the DMT 1754 01:45:25,120 --> 01:45:28,120 he's or he said his near death experience was the exact same as 1755 01:45:28,120 --> 01:45:30,440 his five meo? Exactly. 1756 01:45:30,440 --> 01:45:33,560 Yeah, exactly. So I asked him after he died and 1757 01:45:33,560 --> 01:45:35,480 came back after busting his chops. 1758 01:45:35,720 --> 01:45:38,400 I was like, I mean, I said, you're such a loser, you don't 1759 01:45:38,400 --> 01:45:39,600 even know how to fucking die, right? 1760 01:45:40,000 --> 01:45:42,040 You know, you might as well just give up. 1761 01:45:42,880 --> 01:45:47,440 But I said, I got to know it's 5 meo that experience. 1762 01:45:47,440 --> 01:45:51,640 Is that a rehearsal for Diane? And he went, oh, yeah, 'cause he 1763 01:45:51,640 --> 01:45:54,400 was gone for like 6 to 10 minutes. 1764 01:45:56,320 --> 01:46:00,640 And he described being in that state of sort of pure awareness, 1765 01:46:01,600 --> 01:46:08,480 no sort of physical trauma, emotion, and just being awake 1766 01:46:08,480 --> 01:46:10,760 and aware. And that's a guy who died and 1767 01:46:10,760 --> 01:46:15,320 came back and then did a lot of five MEOI think he visited a 1768 01:46:15,320 --> 01:46:18,240 lot. So I like to think I've had tons 1769 01:46:18,240 --> 01:46:20,880 of death experiences on five meo in ayahuasca. 1770 01:46:22,200 --> 01:46:24,360 That's actually a common thing to people that have. 1771 01:46:24,360 --> 01:46:26,240 I mean, I've had my own near death experience. 1772 01:46:26,240 --> 01:46:30,160 My heart didn't stop, but I lost consciousness and lost a lot of 1773 01:46:30,160 --> 01:46:35,920 blood. I think, I think when your heart 1774 01:46:35,920 --> 01:46:40,080 stops, I think that it's kind of a different, a different animal 1775 01:46:40,080 --> 01:46:43,720 than when you're, you're still like your heart's, you know, 1776 01:46:44,120 --> 01:46:48,160 pumping, you still have a pulse. But when you lose the function, 1777 01:46:48,160 --> 01:46:52,440 I think you, you do go to some other thing, some other place. 1778 01:46:52,440 --> 01:46:55,480 My mom had one of those traditional near death 1779 01:46:55,480 --> 01:46:58,440 experiences giving birth to my younger sister. 1780 01:46:59,640 --> 01:47:02,640 And yeah, she went places and saw people. 1781 01:47:02,640 --> 01:47:06,080 And so, yeah, I think, I think that there's something to that. 1782 01:47:06,080 --> 01:47:09,840 But I think what a common theme is, this is what I was going to 1783 01:47:09,840 --> 01:47:14,520 get to is people that experienced that almost have 1784 01:47:14,520 --> 01:47:18,720 like they wanted to stay there. And when they come back, they're 1785 01:47:18,720 --> 01:47:23,400 like they, they long, they long for that to go back there 1786 01:47:23,400 --> 01:47:26,000 almost. He said that and then he said, 1787 01:47:26,040 --> 01:47:28,120 But then part of him said, no, it's not time yet. 1788 01:47:29,800 --> 01:47:33,120 And then he came back. And you know, for me, with all 1789 01:47:33,120 --> 01:47:38,600 this stuff I've been through, I'm not in any hurry to die, but 1790 01:47:38,600 --> 01:47:40,240 part of me is really looking forward to it. 1791 01:47:41,400 --> 01:47:43,560 You know what's up? It's a real love story. 1792 01:47:44,320 --> 01:47:47,160 Yeah, yeah. I mean, I, I, I'm dying to know. 1793 01:47:47,160 --> 01:47:50,600 And what, you know, I'm getting. I'm in good shape. 1794 01:47:50,600 --> 01:47:54,120 I'm in really good shape, but I'm still getting older, so I 1795 01:47:54,120 --> 01:47:56,120 have my aches and pains like we all do. 1796 01:47:57,200 --> 01:48:01,520 And you know, sometimes the good thing about going to bed at 1797 01:48:01,520 --> 01:48:03,800 night is just getting a break from all that stuff, right? 1798 01:48:05,120 --> 01:48:08,760 So part of me thinks that stepping out of 1799 01:48:08,760 --> 01:48:10,640 three-dimensional reality as we know it. 1800 01:48:12,160 --> 01:48:18,440 And so it's part of the great mystery and I'm anxious to see 1801 01:48:18,440 --> 01:48:21,480 what's waiting for me. You know, I think it's infinite 1802 01:48:21,480 --> 01:48:24,440 all. Right. 1803 01:48:24,960 --> 01:48:26,840 All bets are off. I like it. 1804 01:48:27,600 --> 01:48:30,520 Now this is the controversial last question that I've been 1805 01:48:30,840 --> 01:48:35,240 interchanging in and out, but I think I'll settle on this 'cause 1806 01:48:35,240 --> 01:48:38,040 I think that this is something that everybody thinks about. 1807 01:48:38,920 --> 01:48:41,640 This is a quote I love, probably one of my all time favorite 1808 01:48:41,640 --> 01:48:45,560 quotes from Arthur C Clarke. 2 possibilities exist. 1809 01:48:45,640 --> 01:48:48,240 Either we are alone in the universe or we are not. 1810 01:48:48,560 --> 01:48:52,720 Both are equally terrifying. Do you think there's life 1811 01:48:52,760 --> 01:48:56,160 elsewhere in the universe or do you think we are alone? 1812 01:48:58,640 --> 01:49:02,480 No question. Infinitely expansive and then 1813 01:49:02,480 --> 01:49:06,680 some. We're just, we're just in 1814 01:49:06,680 --> 01:49:09,200 microbes in the big picture. I mean, you look at all those 1815 01:49:09,200 --> 01:49:13,360 stars out there and galaxies and you know one of the things about 1816 01:49:13,360 --> 01:49:14,880 it because you know, I've written a fair amount of science 1817 01:49:14,880 --> 01:49:18,080 fiction too. One of the things I'd love to 1818 01:49:18,080 --> 01:49:20,120 speculate on. Then I may have even read it 1819 01:49:20,120 --> 01:49:24,480 somewhere. We know here on planet Earth we 1820 01:49:24,480 --> 01:49:30,200 exist with certain amount of oxygen and water and other 1821 01:49:30,200 --> 01:49:36,120 elements that we need to have a healthy environment to exist 1822 01:49:36,120 --> 01:49:41,240 with them and grow and all that. But in other places, maybe 1823 01:49:41,240 --> 01:49:47,120 there's another culture that breeds methane or, you know, 1824 01:49:47,160 --> 01:49:54,520 they live on ammonia or I mean, it's infinitely possible for 1825 01:49:55,000 --> 01:49:59,680 infinite permutations of intelligence and awareness. 1826 01:50:00,520 --> 01:50:04,480 When you look at the vastness, I mean, just our sun, we're just 1827 01:50:04,480 --> 01:50:07,720 part of its freaking little solar system in the Galaxy then 1828 01:50:07,760 --> 01:50:11,360 of of a gazillion galaxies. I mean, and then if you think 1829 01:50:11,360 --> 01:50:14,040 about it from the holographic perspective, it's even more 1830 01:50:14,040 --> 01:50:19,560 fascinating because as far in as it goes, as as far as it goes, 1831 01:50:20,400 --> 01:50:22,920 and it just keeps sort of, I like to think of it in that 1832 01:50:22,920 --> 01:50:29,600 multi faceted, infinitely holographic permutation of 1833 01:50:30,960 --> 01:50:33,080 ultimately mathematical perfection. 1834 01:50:34,440 --> 01:50:36,360 I mean, that's one of the reasons I love sacred geometry 1835 01:50:36,360 --> 01:50:37,960 so much. I mean, it's everywhere. 1836 01:50:38,520 --> 01:50:41,600 You can't deny it. You can't deny that it's in your 1837 01:50:41,600 --> 01:50:45,320 fingers and in your hands and in your body and you know, the 1838 01:50:45,320 --> 01:50:48,720 Fibonacci spirals and all of that. 1839 01:50:48,920 --> 01:50:50,320 And the way that the math works out. 1840 01:50:50,440 --> 01:50:54,560 I mean, it's just, it's a beautiful thing, you know, when 1841 01:50:54,560 --> 01:50:59,080 you look at, I can sit there all day and write about all the 1842 01:50:59,080 --> 01:51:03,360 visions I've had in ayahuasca. I still could never adequately 1843 01:51:03,360 --> 01:51:07,760 describe the colors I've seen. There's nothing that comes close 1844 01:51:07,760 --> 01:51:11,040 to. I can visualize them in my mind. 1845 01:51:11,040 --> 01:51:15,600 I can remember them. But that's something you can 1846 01:51:15,600 --> 01:51:22,720 only experience first hand because it's beyond normal 1847 01:51:22,720 --> 01:51:24,880 perception, whatever that is, right? 1848 01:51:26,360 --> 01:51:29,960 So I think that, yeah, I think everything is nothing and 1849 01:51:29,960 --> 01:51:33,280 nothing is everything. And it's all intertwined in a 1850 01:51:33,280 --> 01:51:40,160 big loop of Infinity. And it just goes on far, far, 1851 01:51:40,160 --> 01:51:43,920 far beyond any comprehension we think we might have. 1852 01:51:45,200 --> 01:51:47,720 We're just freaking fetuses. We're not even up for fetuses. 1853 01:51:47,720 --> 01:51:53,120 We're like microbes, man. I mean, it's so big and to 1854 01:51:53,120 --> 01:51:58,440 become, you know, to grow, spend your life working to grow your 1855 01:51:58,440 --> 01:52:00,800 awareness by exploring your consciousness. 1856 01:52:02,120 --> 01:52:05,120 How far can you go now? How many people never get that 1857 01:52:05,120 --> 01:52:08,520 far or never even get off on the right foot or they stay stuck at 1858 01:52:08,520 --> 01:52:10,920 being emotionally 3 years old their whole life. 1859 01:52:12,520 --> 01:52:14,880 You know, I've seen 90 year old people who are like 3 1860 01:52:15,880 --> 01:52:22,240 emotionally, you know, petty or whatever or bitter or not or all 1861 01:52:22,240 --> 01:52:27,920 of those things and you can't, you can't really define it, 1862 01:52:27,920 --> 01:52:29,640 which is one of the greatest beauties of it all. 1863 01:52:29,640 --> 01:52:33,000 I remember years ago walking into a spiritual bookstore in LA 1864 01:52:34,880 --> 01:52:37,280 and this Swami guru guy was talking. 1865 01:52:37,280 --> 01:52:38,560 I can't remember his name or nothing. 1866 01:52:38,560 --> 01:52:43,520 And I just walked in at the beginning of his talk and he 1867 01:52:43,520 --> 01:52:47,840 said, I'm paraphrasing here, but he said, you have asked me to 1868 01:52:47,840 --> 01:52:49,840 come here to speak to you of God. 1869 01:52:51,080 --> 01:52:56,920 But as soon as I open my mouth, I'm lying because I can't even 1870 01:52:56,920 --> 01:53:03,960 begin to define what's so vast and indefinable and infinite 1871 01:53:03,960 --> 01:53:09,320 that one utterance is a lie. And it is this whole talk like 1872 01:53:09,320 --> 01:53:13,920 that was really great. It was nice to hear he was. 1873 01:53:13,960 --> 01:53:19,480 His delivery was great. Anyway, it's all infinite. 1874 01:53:20,120 --> 01:53:23,000 I always tell people, you come across somebody and if they tell 1875 01:53:23,000 --> 01:53:29,280 you they're enlightened, run because they got stuck and they 1876 01:53:29,280 --> 01:53:33,400 got, they got caught and they're in some freaking kind of ego 1877 01:53:33,400 --> 01:53:34,560 trip. It never ends. 1878 01:53:34,880 --> 01:53:40,600 And the more, in my experience, the more I become aware of the 1879 01:53:40,600 --> 01:53:44,880 bigger the problems I have and the more responsibility I have 1880 01:53:44,880 --> 01:53:47,240 for screwing up, the greater consequences because I know 1881 01:53:47,240 --> 01:53:50,200 better. And that's sort of part of the 1882 01:53:50,200 --> 01:53:54,960 path if you're trying to expand yourself, you know, and become 1883 01:53:54,960 --> 01:53:57,720 more aware because in the end, it's about expanding awareness. 1884 01:53:58,120 --> 01:54:00,520 And expanding awareness is expanding consciousness. 1885 01:54:00,520 --> 01:54:02,280 And what do they say? Where? 1886 01:54:03,400 --> 01:54:05,400 Where your attention goes, where your energy goes. 1887 01:54:06,560 --> 01:54:08,880 Yeah. And to me, the whole path is 1888 01:54:09,040 --> 01:54:11,840 learning to master energy, period, Because in the end, 1889 01:54:11,960 --> 01:54:16,280 everything is energy. That's what you're saying. 1890 01:54:16,280 --> 01:54:17,840 You believe there's life out there. 1891 01:54:18,000 --> 01:54:19,800 I'm just joking. Yeah. 1892 01:54:19,800 --> 01:54:24,040 No, no. And to your point too, I think 1893 01:54:24,160 --> 01:54:28,640 early on in your answer you mentioned living on, you know, 1894 01:54:28,640 --> 01:54:33,160 an organisms and ammonia and methane and they've actually 1895 01:54:33,160 --> 01:54:35,200 found. So like I, I don't know, there 1896 01:54:35,200 --> 01:54:40,520 was a study or a paper like five years ago maybe where they found 1897 01:54:40,520 --> 01:54:46,040 phosphines on the clouds on Venus, which would indicate it's 1898 01:54:46,040 --> 01:54:48,560 like a something that only life produces. 1899 01:54:49,120 --> 01:54:52,120 So, you know, and I don't know if anything ever came of that. 1900 01:54:52,400 --> 01:54:54,720 And then recently, I don't know if you've been paying attention, 1901 01:54:54,720 --> 01:55:00,400 they found like super ancient trace, you know, evidence of 1902 01:55:00,400 --> 01:55:03,760 life on Mars. So I mean, you know, that's kind 1903 01:55:03,760 --> 01:55:09,160 of got lost in the lost in the news cycle, but what hasn't, 1904 01:55:09,160 --> 01:55:11,840 right? So but yeah, to your point, I 1905 01:55:11,840 --> 01:55:14,400 think that, you know, if you're talking about extremophiles, we 1906 01:55:14,400 --> 01:55:18,160 don't, we don't even fathom, you know, you even look at something 1907 01:55:18,160 --> 01:55:19,960 like a tardigrade or a water bear. 1908 01:55:19,960 --> 01:55:23,760 This thing can survive a nuclear blast and hibernate. 1909 01:55:23,760 --> 01:55:26,320 And then, you know, so yeah, there's all sorts of things. 1910 01:55:26,320 --> 01:55:29,440 And I definitely agree with you. There's got to be stuff out 1911 01:55:29,440 --> 01:55:30,080 there. So. 1912 01:55:30,400 --> 01:55:34,120 But listen, you answered all my questions. 1913 01:55:34,120 --> 01:55:37,760 I appreciate it. And consider your mind melted. 1914 01:55:38,480 --> 01:55:40,360 Oh good, I've been trying it all my life. 1915 01:55:44,000 --> 01:55:46,600 I just want to get a couple things in before we wrap it up. 1916 01:55:46,600 --> 01:55:52,480 I do want to talk about your new book, Drug Wars, a new Dope. 1917 01:55:52,480 --> 01:55:55,440 Can you maybe describe that a little bit, Tell us what it's 1918 01:55:55,440 --> 01:55:58,160 about? Yeah, it's my, it's my, it's my 1919 01:55:58,160 --> 01:56:03,280 first long term comedy. Some of my short stories have 1920 01:56:03,280 --> 01:56:06,560 weird little comedy twists here and there, but it's a comedy. 1921 01:56:06,560 --> 01:56:13,320 It's a Star Wars parody and it starts out a long time ago in a 1922 01:56:13,320 --> 01:56:20,760 cannabis field far, far away. And a there's a Rastafarian 1923 01:56:20,760 --> 01:56:26,360 looking guy standing next to a big waving field of great 1924 01:56:26,360 --> 01:56:29,360 cannabis. And he looks down and he sees a 1925 01:56:29,360 --> 01:56:34,000 mushroom and he picks up the mushroom and brushes it off and 1926 01:56:34,000 --> 01:56:36,800 he eats it. And this is all happening at 1927 01:56:36,800 --> 01:56:40,960 sunset and the cannabis starts kind of moving around the way 1928 01:56:40,960 --> 01:56:43,760 they do when mushies are happening. 1929 01:56:44,880 --> 01:56:47,880 And then he starts moving forward along with the sunset 1930 01:56:49,560 --> 01:56:51,760 and he goes across the field and up. 1931 01:56:51,760 --> 01:56:53,640 And then it goes into what they call it a Scroll down. 1932 01:56:53,640 --> 01:56:57,160 I think you know how the movie starts and it starts off without 1933 01:56:57,160 --> 01:57:05,240 with the story. And in the story, the corporate 1934 01:57:05,240 --> 01:57:10,960 empire are after the roster underground growers because 1935 01:57:10,960 --> 01:57:13,800 they're trying to rule cannabis production throughout the 1936 01:57:13,800 --> 01:57:19,880 Galaxy. And so the rebels, the star is 1937 01:57:19,880 --> 01:57:23,360 is a dude dope toker, and there's Doobie 1 Knubbie and 1938 01:57:23,360 --> 01:57:26,040 Hash Stoner, a Princess Sansa Mia, her hair looks like a big 1939 01:57:26,040 --> 01:57:30,080 cannabis bud and they're trying to crush the roster. 1940 01:57:30,080 --> 01:57:32,960 Underground grows. Underground growers. 1941 01:57:33,240 --> 01:57:34,960 Please tell me there's pictures too. 1942 01:57:35,840 --> 01:57:37,800 Well, it's a perfect graphic novel and I wrote the. 1943 01:57:37,880 --> 01:57:43,520 Spider, yeah. Yeah, so the the ultimate weapon 1944 01:57:43,520 --> 01:57:46,640 that the corporate empire has, by the way, it's Ronnie Ray Gun, 1945 01:57:46,640 --> 01:57:51,560 the dank Spliff Lord and the Empress Nancy. 1946 01:57:52,960 --> 01:57:55,680 And their weapon of destruction is the death bomb. 1947 01:57:56,480 --> 01:58:00,400 It looks like a huge penis and it shoots A paraquat ray that 1948 01:58:00,400 --> 01:58:07,000 blows up the planet Tryptamine. The the robots are 5 meo and two 1949 01:58:07,000 --> 01:58:13,000 CB. The ship is the the Pineapple 1950 01:58:13,000 --> 01:58:18,680 Express and and do dope toker has to use the buzz and it's the 1951 01:58:18,680 --> 01:58:27,000 red eye Knights and the inferior crack smokers and do dope toker 1952 01:58:27,000 --> 01:58:31,280 and all the vape. All the fighters are vape pens 1953 01:58:32,480 --> 01:58:34,760 and all the ships are like different kinds of pipes. 1954 01:58:36,720 --> 01:58:42,960 So do dope Toker has to learn how to use the buzz, and he has 1955 01:58:42,960 --> 01:58:51,040 to learn to fly his vape fighter up to the rectal port of the 1956 01:58:51,040 --> 01:58:53,040 death bong. And the rectal port is a 1957 01:58:53,040 --> 01:58:57,640 carburetor that a bong has. They call it the rectal port and 1958 01:58:57,640 --> 01:59:00,640 he asked the guy, this rape fighter using the buzz to fly 1959 01:59:00,640 --> 01:59:06,280 through the twin testicle towers to, to shoot the plasma into the 1960 01:59:06,280 --> 01:59:11,080 rectal port of the death bunk to blow it up and save the empire. 1961 01:59:12,080 --> 01:59:15,560 Classic. So yeah, this stuff like when 1962 01:59:15,560 --> 01:59:20,600 they have to sell his his weed speeder from the planet, they go 1963 01:59:20,600 --> 01:59:28,400 to Hoffman's used bicycle lot and the the bar room scene is 1964 01:59:28,400 --> 01:59:31,480 Leary's lounge and says turn on TuneIn and drop off. 1965 01:59:31,480 --> 01:59:33,160 There's all kinds of little inside jokes. 1966 01:59:34,240 --> 01:59:40,960 You know he hash donor says my ship has a record for getting to 1967 01:59:40,960 --> 01:59:45,640 the to the cannabis Galaxy and eight bong hits. 1968 01:59:47,160 --> 01:59:48,880 They don't shoot people, they smoke them. 1969 01:59:53,080 --> 01:59:58,400 The what you gonna call it the the swords, the Jedi lightsaber 1970 01:59:59,000 --> 02:00:03,880 lightsabers. They're pipe lighters and it's 1971 02:00:03,880 --> 02:00:12,440 tons of psychedelic stuff like the little 2 CB robot. 1972 02:00:13,000 --> 02:00:17,600 He also has like Roach clip extensions and like bong 1973 02:00:17,600 --> 02:00:20,520 extensions and. Are there elocks? 1974 02:00:22,320 --> 02:00:26,760 Yeah, those are the blunts. They call those the blunts and 1975 02:00:26,760 --> 02:00:29,360 they catch them so that when they when they're inferior crack 1976 02:00:29,360 --> 02:00:33,920 smokers, they smoke all the blunts, right. 1977 02:00:34,680 --> 02:00:37,080 And when they get put into the big crawler, the weed crawler, 1978 02:00:37,520 --> 02:00:40,640 when the the robots get captured, they're forced to be 1979 02:00:40,640 --> 02:00:41,960 trimmers. They're all trimmers. 1980 02:00:43,720 --> 02:00:46,560 So there's all kind of. I had so much fun with it, even 1981 02:00:46,560 --> 02:00:49,720 the squadrons. Some in depth satire, that's for 1982 02:00:49,720 --> 02:00:51,040 sure. Yeah, yeah, that. 1983 02:00:51,160 --> 02:00:53,560 You know the squadrons, when they're fighting, they're like 1984 02:00:53,560 --> 02:00:58,560 Blue Dream, Panama red. What about Jabba the Hutt? 1985 02:00:59,520 --> 02:01:02,320 What do I call him? Or Boba. 1986 02:01:02,320 --> 02:01:06,240 Fett. But what do I What did I call 1987 02:01:06,240 --> 02:01:09,520 him? Not Jabba the Hutt. 1988 02:01:13,480 --> 02:01:15,120 God, I can't think of it now. Bubba. 1989 02:01:15,200 --> 02:01:18,440 Bubba the Kush. He's Bubba the Kush. 1990 02:01:19,320 --> 02:01:23,480 Yeah. And then the Wookiee. 1991 02:01:25,680 --> 02:01:29,840 He's he's a he's OG Kush. So, you know, in the movie he 1992 02:01:29,840 --> 02:01:37,000 kept calling him, which we call it in the in the in the original 1993 02:01:37,000 --> 02:01:41,480 movie, The Wookiee. Chewie. 1994 02:01:42,400 --> 02:01:45,320 Yeah, I call him Chewy. So in this one it calls them OG 1995 02:01:46,800 --> 02:01:50,600 and the robot's MEO, and the other one's 2C and he does all, 1996 02:01:50,800 --> 02:01:52,440 all kind of crazy. I just had a lot of fun. 1997 02:01:52,760 --> 02:01:55,400 When does it come out? November. 1998 02:01:56,000 --> 02:01:58,400 OK. Yeah, it's it's available for 1999 02:01:58,400 --> 02:01:59,760 pre-order now. It's short. 2000 02:02:00,320 --> 02:02:02,680 I wrote the script and I actually entered the script in a 2001 02:02:02,680 --> 02:02:05,000 comedy competition. It was 1/4 finalist. 2002 02:02:06,240 --> 02:02:09,200 So I decided to adapt the script into a novel because I've done 2003 02:02:09,200 --> 02:02:11,760 novels into scripts, but I hadn't gone the other way. 2004 02:02:12,760 --> 02:02:15,440 So that was a great exercise and I had fun with it and I had fun 2005 02:02:15,440 --> 02:02:20,080 narrating it and getting it all done. 2006 02:02:20,080 --> 02:02:21,800 So it's all ready to. Yeah, I'll have to listen to 2007 02:02:21,800 --> 02:02:25,480 that one, that's for sure. Yeah, if you bug me, rattle me 2008 02:02:25,480 --> 02:02:28,080 up the road, I'll send you a. Yeah. 2009 02:02:28,520 --> 02:02:33,680 And then do you have a working date for the Ayahuasca book? 2010 02:02:33,680 --> 02:02:35,480 And do you have a working title too? 2011 02:02:36,920 --> 02:02:42,920 Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's going to be ayahuasca, the mother of 2012 02:02:42,920 --> 02:02:47,600 all the plants I've had different. 2013 02:02:47,800 --> 02:02:49,960 That's the working title. I've gone through a few of them. 2014 02:02:49,960 --> 02:02:55,320 But I said I want to include some of the plants or maybe 2015 02:02:55,320 --> 02:02:58,960 almost all of them that I've worked with and my experiences 2016 02:02:58,960 --> 02:03:02,440 with them as as well as the the taxonomic information and the, 2017 02:03:03,160 --> 02:03:06,520 you know, the proper naming and all that. 2018 02:03:07,600 --> 02:03:13,520 So I want to do that and the whole idea of mother and Mother 2019 02:03:13,520 --> 02:03:18,360 Nature and plants and plants as teachers and and bringing the 2020 02:03:19,320 --> 02:03:22,320 technical lack of better words, the technical knowledge and 2021 02:03:22,320 --> 02:03:24,360 history along with my personal experience. 2022 02:03:25,200 --> 02:03:31,680 Pachamama. Yeah, Pachamama, some of the 2023 02:03:31,680 --> 02:03:37,760 native names, you know, Yahe and different tribes have different 2024 02:03:37,760 --> 02:03:39,440 names for it. And I've included a couple of 2025 02:03:39,440 --> 02:03:42,400 the other plants. But I want to show that whole 2026 02:03:42,400 --> 02:03:47,320 relationship of plant helpers with ayahuasca being the mother, 2027 02:03:47,720 --> 02:03:49,520 which is what I was told years ago. 2028 02:03:50,640 --> 02:03:55,920 And some of the mythologies and, and even a lot of creation myths 2029 02:03:55,920 --> 02:03:58,480 of some of the indigenous tribes with their relationship. 2030 02:03:59,240 --> 02:04:03,040 They credit ayahuasca with sort of the beginnings of the world. 2031 02:04:03,040 --> 02:04:05,480 And, you know, it's always associated with like the 2032 02:04:05,480 --> 02:04:10,600 Anaconda, which is often seen in visions, and snakes, and snakes 2033 02:04:10,600 --> 02:04:12,960 are associated with the rivers, like the Amazon and all the 2034 02:04:12,960 --> 02:04:14,320 tributaries. Yeah. 2035 02:04:14,320 --> 02:04:19,000 I mean, snakes, the iconography throughout history, you know, 2036 02:04:19,000 --> 02:04:24,160 fertility and life. Yeah, there's a lot there, even 2037 02:04:24,160 --> 02:04:26,080 wisdom. Wisdom, Yeah. 2038 02:04:26,280 --> 02:04:28,560 You know the whole freaking Adam and Eve, right? 2039 02:04:29,280 --> 02:04:33,440 Well listen bro, it's been a pleasure as always. 2040 02:04:33,440 --> 02:04:35,760 Let's wrap it up here. We've been talking for a little 2041 02:04:35,760 --> 02:04:39,560 over 2 hours now and never feels that long. 2042 02:04:39,640 --> 02:04:42,240 If my ass wasn't asleep, I'd try and go maybe a little bit 2043 02:04:42,240 --> 02:04:43,560 longer, but yeah, we're. Good. 2044 02:04:44,080 --> 02:04:45,320 We don't want to burn people out. 2045 02:04:45,440 --> 02:04:49,320 Well, I was on hiatus. I got to get back in ass shape. 2046 02:04:49,320 --> 02:04:51,240 I call it. You know where you're sitting in 2047 02:04:51,240 --> 02:04:53,720 a chair talking for a few hours. But that's why I. 2048 02:04:54,160 --> 02:04:58,200 Go to the gym. I'm going to be using that 2049 02:04:58,200 --> 02:05:02,920 Theragun on this thing later, but yeah, man, I really 2050 02:05:02,920 --> 02:05:05,680 appreciate it. You're always a wealth of 2051 02:05:05,680 --> 02:05:09,480 knowledge and you've always got interesting insights into things 2052 02:05:09,480 --> 02:05:11,480 and different takes than a lot of people. 2053 02:05:11,480 --> 02:05:16,400 And I love picking your mind 'cause, you know, you are such a 2054 02:05:16,400 --> 02:05:20,560 creative person. And yeah, that's kind of losing 2055 02:05:20,560 --> 02:05:23,960 its, you know, we talked about AI and everything and, you know, 2056 02:05:23,960 --> 02:05:27,840 creativity is, is at a premium. You know, you look at what's out 2057 02:05:27,840 --> 02:05:33,320 there, you know, you're whether it's Netflix or Hulu or 2058 02:05:33,320 --> 02:05:37,880 whatever, a lot of stuff's recycled shit or, you know, like 2059 02:05:38,120 --> 02:05:42,240 the same takes on things. And just so when you, you know, 2060 02:05:42,240 --> 02:05:44,960 you write from personal experiences in these unique 2061 02:05:44,960 --> 02:05:48,800 places and relationships and things like that, I think it it 2062 02:05:48,800 --> 02:05:50,880 does matter. And we need more of that in the 2063 02:05:50,880 --> 02:05:54,280 world. And hopefully, you know, we can 2064 02:05:54,280 --> 02:06:00,720 find a way to maybe use AI or technology to do the the stuff 2065 02:06:00,720 --> 02:06:04,400 we don't want to do so we can fulfill our creative destinies, 2066 02:06:04,400 --> 02:06:06,440 if you will. That would be my ultimate 2067 02:06:06,440 --> 02:06:09,920 future. Yeah, use it all wisely if we 2068 02:06:09,920 --> 02:06:14,000 can. Well, all I can say is it's all 2069 02:06:14,000 --> 02:06:17,640 for you, and I wouldn't do it. If you weren't here and other 2070 02:06:17,640 --> 02:06:21,560 people weren't here to listen to my babbling, then I wouldn't 2071 02:06:21,560 --> 02:06:24,920 have any purpose. No bro, we love your babbling. 2072 02:06:24,920 --> 02:06:27,560 You got to keep babbling. But it's going to lead somewhere 2073 02:06:27,640 --> 02:06:29,680 and I'll try. To keep my head from getting 2074 02:06:29,680 --> 02:06:31,000 too. Good. 2075 02:06:31,000 --> 02:06:35,160 No, but seriously, I do. I'm looking forward to a new 2076 02:06:35,160 --> 02:06:39,120 dope and listening to that audio 'cause I don't think I've ever 2077 02:06:39,120 --> 02:06:41,120 listened to your audio books yet, so that should be 2078 02:06:41,120 --> 02:06:43,920 interesting. And then, yeah, I'm really 2079 02:06:43,920 --> 02:06:47,040 psyched for this ayahuasca one that you've got coming. 2080 02:06:47,040 --> 02:06:51,120 Yeah, I think it's going to be a good. 1. 2081 02:06:52,600 --> 02:06:55,600 All right, man, well, let's wrap it up the same way I wrap up all 2082 02:06:55,600 --> 02:07:00,360 episodes, which is we love everybody, stay safe out there 2083 02:07:00,680 --> 02:07:03,120 and we'll catch you next time. Peace. 2084 02:07:04,120 --> 02:07:06,760 If you would like to support mind escape, there's many ways 2085 02:07:06,760 --> 02:07:09,480 you can do it, but the best way to do it is to click the link 2086 02:07:09,480 --> 02:07:14,200 tree link down below. I have everything from merch to 2087 02:07:14,240 --> 02:07:18,800 our Patreon page, Our Patreon by the way, I archived a lot of the 2088 02:07:18,800 --> 02:07:21,160 Mind Escape 1.0 episodes on there. 2089 02:07:21,480 --> 02:07:24,640 There is still some available on our YouTube channel and our 2090 02:07:24,640 --> 02:07:28,360 Spotify and Apple podcast. However, like I said, if you're 2091 02:07:28,360 --> 02:07:31,200 looking for a specific older episode, it might be on our 2092 02:07:31,200 --> 02:07:35,000 Patreon, which has been archived and it's $2.00 a month and 2093 02:07:35,000 --> 02:07:37,920 there's also exclusive content on there as well that was never 2094 02:07:37,920 --> 02:07:41,680 released to any other platform. So please go check that out. 2095 02:07:41,680 --> 02:07:43,800 You can also check out our documentary that Maurice and I 2096 02:07:43,800 --> 02:07:47,720 made a few years ago called As Within So without from UFOs to 2097 02:07:47,720 --> 02:07:50,200 DMT, that is available on there as well. 2098 02:07:50,200 --> 02:07:53,240 There's also a director's cut. Please click the subscribe 2099 02:07:53,240 --> 02:07:55,920 button and follow us. And if you're listening on an 2100 02:07:55,920 --> 02:07:59,600 audio platform like Spotify, we do have video on Spotify as 2101 02:07:59,600 --> 02:08:01,680 well. And please leave us a nice 2102 02:08:01,680 --> 02:08:03,520 review. We would really appreciate that.