Welcome back to Mike and Maurice's might Escape.
Let us help you escape your mind.
All right, folks. Welcome back to Mike and
Maurice's mind Escape. We have episode number 273
tonight. We're going to be discussing
ancient and esoteric, psychedelic, use with our buddy
PD Newman, AKA Danny Newman and he's been on the show a couple
times before. After we're done, I'll add the
links to the previous episodes down below.
We did the first episode on his book, alchemically Stone, which
will discuss a little bit. It and then I think, like, last
year we did an episode on his book that came out called angels
and Vermillion, which I have right here and I don't know what
else you sent me something else to.
I don't know what this is. I haven't even read it yet.
By the way, either, to be honest with you, that's the the tool
Journal of the American rosicrucian society and I sent
it to you because I've got a couple of papers in there, one
of them on the role of entheogenic mushrooms and early
rosicrucian Practice. Okay.
Yeah. So I'm looking forward to
checking this out, then I still I just found it when I was going
through. And after I read I have a whole
stack of books on my shelf here next to me, you can't see I'm
like oh what's this little thing?
And say a little pamphlet, I got to go through there and read
that but I forgot you sent it. But yeah.
So we're going to talk about all that you can check out PD's
books. I have the link down below at
the bottom. I've also let's see here.
What else do we have? Or PD.
He's got a Facebook group. Yeah.
All the links are there down below.
Just click on them and yeah you can follow Shane on Twitter at
Old vet Symposium. You can follow Danny on Twitter
as well and yeah, just we're gonna have an awesome show
tonight. If you want to support mind
Escape. All you have to do is click the
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There's a bunch of cool stuff already in there.
We're also working on getting a new logo, kick in, and check out
the trailer for our documentary. That's coming out in March,
it'll be premiering March 10 through 12 at the Roswell, UFO
Expo, shout out to Toby. And yeah, it's called as within.
So without from UFOs to DMT and I'll Premier, I'll play the
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We appreciate it. So without further Ado, welcome
back on the show, Danny how are Now, I'm great.
Thanks, thanks for having me again.
I always love talking to you guys.
Oh, of course, of course. So yeah, I think last time we
discussed angels and Vermillion about John D and the
Philosopher's Stone and all that stuff.
But why don't you give people a little bit of your background
that haven't seen you on the show before you're the author of
alchemically stoned and you also are a Freemason Just give, you
know, give us a little bit of a background, or a summary of how
you got into this, what you're all about that kind of a thing.
Sure. Yeah.
My my entry to, you know, esoteric a cult topics that
whole domain was really through, psychedelics through taking
mushrooms LSD. I started at a pretty young age.
I think the first the first time I took LSD, I was 11 and it was
a love affair. Then on.
And it was due to actually mushroom trips that we were
taking as teenagers when our dose is started, increasing, we
started experimenting more with 20 and 30, G Doses.
And we started having experiences where I had.
I mean, as a Westerner raised Southern Baptist and you know,
Tennessee and Mississippi. I had absolutely no frame of
reference for what we're experiencing and that's Stuff
aside for a little while and said that I was going to pursue
a legitimate system of initiation and in the faith that
somebody knew what was going on with.
If not with mushrooms, at least with the territories, we were
encroaching upon by taking. Those mushrooms, said 2030.
Is that dried grams or is that what dried G?
Yeah, well, that's a yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's steadily. And it wasn't all of the sudden
that we would just, we were like, we're going to take yeah,
20 G most I've done like 10 or 11 and I'm like that's that's
insane. I don't know what I'd be gone
forever. There's a caveat you got to keep
in mind. These are filled cabs that we're
picking our self and nature which are not as potent as
something like penis envy. So Two grams of penis envy, you
would get to that place with more like four grams of what I'm
taking. So it's not as much as it sounds
like but that's what that's the way we were taking numb.
And it was I mean, I think the first time I took 30 grams was
with my wife and college wasn't my wife yet, but I snuck her
into my dorm room and we had picked all these mushrooms and
dry them out in the oven. And Just the, our rule was
basically eat them to you, don't want to eat them and then keep
eating them. And I remember, she would eat
them with between chips, like a little sandwich, a mushroom
between chips. I could never do it that way.
It's a, the flavor is, I've never been fond of that flavor.
Oh, dude. That that smell in that taste.
I mean, you can smell like the silicide.
I don't know. I is it the psilocybin.
I don't know what you can smell that smell.
And especially, I mean, look, the The more in the past when
I've masticated and just chewed on them, let them dissolve in my
cheeks, those have been the best ones but it's such a brutal
thing to leave them in there. It's like, oh yeah, I have to
say that there hasn't been a time that I've taken my shrooms
that I have not vomited until I found I read somewhere that if
you grind them up in and in drink orange juice with them
lemon there. Yeah.
Man juice. And that's what I did.
That's the only way I can not vomit every time.
I vomit every time I do to I'm a puker, I get that rocks in the
belly feeling, once I exceed 10, grams and it's, I'm gonna puke
every time I try to hold it down long enough to get it in my
system, but you end up puking up, they go down, you know,
brown gray. And they come up blue.
Like like you're an alien. Alien or something.
But it was from those experiences that I decided to
try and get involved with something.
And what I turn to was Freemasonry mainly because it's
visible here in the South and it was in the Master Mason degree
where I encountered, the famous sprig of Acacia.
So humble that we this placed at the head of the, the grave of
the candidate. Whose symbolically killed in
this ritual. And we had just, you know, a
couple of years earlier extracted, our first batch, of
DNT from Acacia. So I had all these bells going
off and whistles and thinking, you know, this is impossible.
There's no this has nothing to do with your DMT experiences.
This is just put it out of your head and and I did tried to, but
I couldn't shake that intuition, that there's something more to
it. And so I just started reading
every different version of the Masonic degrees I could find.
There's not just one version, you know, there's they change
over time, they change by state their different rights that have
their own varieties of these rituals.
So I read everything and nothing seemed to give me any any, any
kind of leeway in the end, what was going on or if there was
anything going on with this. But finally, One winter.
I think it was in the winter of 2012.
We were, I was, I was reading count cagliostro's Egyptian,
right? It's called the Masonic
magician, the life and death of count cagliostro and his
Egyptian Rite of Freemasonry And then there was the first time it
was over, spelled out that says they know that they're drinking
Acacia in this, in this Elixir and the effect, which he says
should result from it is. And this is 18th centuries.
They have to keep in mind the language they have access to,
how would they would Express this?
But he says, so that it will raise your Consciousness to
understand what he's going to say.
So he's literally saying something about expansion of
consciousness. and, And that was it, once I found that I said, I
said there's got to be more out there that I can find.
And, and it was at first, you know, I only had the cagliostro
reference, but when I brought that reference that's two grand
archivist and Grand historian of the Scottish Rite, a man named
Arturo de Hoyos? Absolutely brilliant researcher.
And I said art, man. I think I think they were
tripping on DMT at least in cagliostro's, right?
You know, but I can't tell if this was going on in regular
masonry and at first he was kind of, yeah, that's not what was
going on. And it was only a coincidence
that he was in the process of translating a masonic.
Right? From Russia called the right of
Nella. See?
No, my Latino was actually cagliostro's contact when he
went to Russia. So they knew one another and in
this ritual he Is basically the same thing that the acacia is
the Prima Materia or Primal matter of alchemy.
And from it, you can produce this Philosopher's Stone that
causes visions and he Compares it to the burning coal in the
book of Isaiah, which is, when Angel places this coal to his
lips, like, as if he's smoking and and he said, look, I think I
found something. That corroborates what you're
saying? So I think you're onto something
and I said, well, then I'm going to publish and he gave me
permission to publish the bit from the middle C.
Know, right. Which had been published yet, it
was eventually published by the What's called the Grand College
of Rights, a Masonic organization that publishes
defunct, Masonic rites and rituals.
And that's about the time I published Alchemically stoned
now and now chemically stoned. I couldn't do any more than
point a finger at the Moon. I couldn't do any more than just
say these guys were doing. DMT, I couldn't say how they
came to do it, how The Acacia got in Freemasonry, or what
happened after them, and it wasn't until a couple of years
later. I kind of exhausted the Masonic
domain, and these terms and I had to take a step back and look
at it as an alchemical problem. Now, The Masonic problem because
these two people who are you, even though they're Masons and
they're writing these Masonic rituals their Alchemists and
they're describing it in alchemical turns.
So there was a huge learning curve there.
I had to buy a bought everything, that's some print,
every alchemical texts manuscript commentary and that's
when it finally clicked that how it found its way in there.
And that's what this is. What it angels in Vermillion is
about how How this was actually something that the Royal Society
was preoccupied with, they were on this mad search for drugs
because they they wanted to talk to angels is as strange as that
sounds was a member of the Royal Society.
Who this man named a sigh Coulier who became the third
Grand Master of the Premier Grand Lodge in London and he's
one who rewrote the Master Mason degree in but that sprig of
Acacia in their prior to that acacia.
Mentioned anywhere in masonry it was they mentioned something
called cassia and its significance isn't.
But that it Cynthia genic back then it was that Cassie has an
ingredient that is used in embalming and in mummification.
So it was part of that death symbolism that went along with
what was happening to the candidate and that Master Mason
degree, wasn't the future. Something else before like
wasn't it like an olive branch or something.
And then it became, it was half Sia, Yep.
And now Pike and and his commentary he does.
Say that the Myrtle branch is is of the same as it's a different
type of the same symbol. It's he says it's a symbol of
the immortality of the soul and that's what they say in the
degree. They also say it's a symbol of
innocence and they get that from a false etymology of Acacia.
Acacia means Means Thorn. And it's it's a name that dies
Cortese is Greek physician gave to the tree because it's most
defining characteristic are these gnarly Thorns.
But the progenitors of masonic ritual, they didn't know it
meant that they tried to interpret it on according to a
false etymology a cocky owes or not evil or innocent.
So that's where the Innocence comes from.
But they also proportional Art that it's a symbol of the
immortality of the Soul, which I found to be extremely
fascinating because it's consistent with this
interpretation. This, this drug that causes what
has many times been described as an out-of-body experience.
Yeah, no super interesting. So with I guess my question is
there's so many different types of Acacia with the.
I know there's a lot of acacia trees and plants near.
I know people bring up like Egypt and that area I was told
and I don't know if this is true that the acacia trees and near
Egypt by like the Giza plateau and stuff do not contain DMT.
I don't know if that's true or not.
No, it's not. Okay.
Mean that claim is not true. They.
Okay. And that was from an academic.
Yeah. That was from an academic by the
way. So I just that's why I was talk.
I want to talk to you about that because I feel like you have a
little bit more of an in-depth take on that.
So the the first, the first time we hear the word, alchemy read.
The word. Alchemy is with this men names,
all Samosa. Pena Palace, who was a?
He was a made statues for Rituals what we would call
animated statues. I don't mean mechanical.
Contrivance has, I mean, they were instilled with anima or
Soul. They were alive, and that was
his job, but he was in possession of this secret that
he called out kamiya, that he claimed to have learned from a
woman named Maria Prophet Isa maor.
Maria, the prophetess He specifically says, it's Acacia
that will first, I'll back up, he's got a student named Theo
Sabia. And Theo Sabia is learning
astrology. From the Egyptian priesthood,
she will, she brings them offerings that they give to
their gods. And in return, they, they're
teaching her astrology. And he says that this Egyptian
priesthood, number one, they're not worshiping God's, they're
worshiping fallen angels, and he's got to keep in mind is also
most Has and Gnostic Christian. So, he's got this idea of fallen
angels and he tells her that when they give these offerings,
they're actually giving them to the angels.
And furthermore, he says, astrology is the the mechanism,
by which these Fallen Angels trap, man's Soul into the
Fetters of matter. And get us stuck here.
It's a mechanism of Fate. So she says, well, I think
you're wrong because they're teaching me She calls propitious
astrology, meaning how to do elections for the proper time to
do certain actions and he says, elections are not if you use
astrology and follow follow, what it tells you to do, you're
just a meshing yourself further and fate.
But he says, I have this technique of extracting, the
soul from matter of separating it from matter, and it claims,
that's what Alchemy is. So, she says she says, I'll I'll
bite. I'll take you.
Up on it. I'll go and learn from you and
see what you have to offer and he starts teaching her about
Cinnabar. Cinnabar is already in.
China is an alchemical symbol. They used it to teach cosmology,
how Cinnabar is composed of sulfur and Mercury.
So they would put it through a process and extract the sulfur
and mercury, and show how you get to from one.
They're showing how we get from one God from the Monet, Add to
all of this stuff here. And on this plane, we don't know
where he encountered this or how, but he must have because
he's using the almost identical terminology and he's talking
about this Cinnabar saying that from it.
He can extract a certain substance and that with this
substance is this this Philosopher's Stone, you know.
And he says things like LED from Cinnabar.
He says lead from copper and copper is the same situation.
That's what he's doing is choosing something red because
the roots the occasion, he was working with is this Rich
Vermillion color. So he's choosing something that
is symbol is similar to it. And even says this in the letter
when he she finally says, I don't understand what Cinnabar,
what these metals have to do with freeing my soul.
And he says, well, It's not Cinnabar, it's actually Acacia.
And he tells her that we hide this science under the language
of Metallurgy because the the processes the techniques of
Metallurgy are very similar to the techniques that we're
smelting is very similar to do. What we're about to do to
extract this Stone from this acacia.
And The Acacia he's working with he he he learned from this Maria
Prophet Isa mama and she she didn't leave any writings but he
quotes some things from her and she says to Mary gum with gum
and this is how you get the Philosopher's Stone, the the
sought-after substance. And she says that this, these
gums come from the white plant that grows on the mountain in
that region and the mountains. And Jerusalem, especially which
is where she was allegedly from. They call hearse Maria, the
jewess is another name and it was thought that that name was
given to her because she was confused with Moses and sister,
but that confusion is part of the reason.
And will we see that into European Alchemy where Moses
himself becomes an alchemist for example in the turbo
philosophorum, the oldest out, chemical text that made it to
Europe. So this with the white plant The
Acacia that grows there is called a case shall be de
meaning, white Acacia and it's covered in these these long
flowers tube kind of like cylinder flowers that are white.
And when they when it's In Bloom it looks like it's covered in
snow. That's all you see.
Is this white? But it's active.
It has. It has an Indian tea in the
roots and that's what Are working with, he's constantly
talking about the root of this substance and later in European
Alchemy. We have a man, pop-up, who was a
student of Edward Kelly. Whom we talked about in a
previous episode. Yeah, his name is Jaime Coon
wrath. Well, Kelly was just so people
know, it was Dee's partner. Right.
He's decent personal scryer and he was using this red powder in
order to see and communicate with angels.
Well, he had a student that came and stayed with him for a little
while that was also, I believe he was for a Time learned under
paracelsus or they learn, they, they, I think he learned under
paracelsus. It's, um, Some University but he
eventually went to stay with Kelly and even when Kelly
eventually became Rudolph's of Rudolf of Prague word off the
second, some his personal Alchemist as they called it the
projector he was there. Projector ever, watched
kellyanne episode, I did on the Codex gigas and psychedelics.
No I didn't. Okay so I I took the image the
first ever known image of the devil, which looks an awful lot
like DMT entities and I compared them to the heyoka personal,
like art of people that have done DMT, you know, report and
stuff like that. And there's a lot of crossover.
So, yeah, I made that guy. Did that whole episode.
Actually, I found a lot of connections between all that
stuff. Check it out.
I'm fascinated by that manuscript.
But anyways, I want to sing cause you brought up Rudolph.
He was said to have been so enamored by the Codex gigas that
he wore that one page out with the the devil.
Like he was fascinated with that.
So obviously you know you're talking about these people being
familiar with DMT at that time. Well, maybe that's why he was so
enamored by it because maybe he had experienced something
similar in one of these realms. This or something like that.
That's fascinating. Yeah, I didn't.
I didn't know about that relationship with the gigas.
That's that's interesting because it does kind of have
that theory, anthropomorphic, kind of man.
Beast thing that that you see in Barrett's the Magus.
It's what it reminded me of the first time I saw it or those
demons in the maggots, if you've seen those.
Yeah, there's supposedly, you know, there's a lot of other
stuff like that or the The guy, the hermit, supposedly wrote it,
I forget his name, something, the hermit, I can't remember his
name anyways, supposedly he had written it in one night, but I'm
thinking, I mean, and actually the calligraphy and all the
stuff that they've matched up, it would take like a lot of
years for, well, somebody's whole life.
But supposedly, he wrote this one night.
My thought, is he, maybe wrote it before and then offered it up
in something, like, just watch the episode.
I make a lot of connections. Has to stuff.
But yeah, I mean that that's kind of it's weird because it's
kind of going along with kind of the stuff you're saying right
now. So yeah, that's really
fascinating. He so he became the court
projector. And when Kelly was arrested,
Coon wrath took his place as this as The Hired Hand of
Rudolph. So he, it's very probable that
he knew the secret of this red powder.
This Acacia powder and he names Acacia also by name.
He says that You gotta remember, Maria said that.
There's one plant that to gums come from a red gum and a white
gum. And he says that the white gum
is Arabic gum, which is gum Acacia.
He and then he says, and it's the red gum, that is the
transformative substance. And like I said, Maria says
these gums come from one white tree as with a white plant so
it's very likely that he got this from Kelly.
And the there, there's another Acacia in that region.
It'll come to me in a minute but it's got DMT and the aerial
Parts, but it doesn't seem like he's talking about that.
It seems like zasa most from Saw cymose on, they seem to be
referring to a variety of that's active in the roots and I think
melodicas were active in The Roots.
That's the famous Egyptian. Acacia, that tends to be
depicted in art and different mythological scenes.
Means you see bastet chasing a pep into that Acacia.
There's one great image of an acacia tree with arms.
Holding a platter and a picture. And there are two Egyptian
worshippers hold their hands out.
Drinking the water being poured from this Acacia and there's a
dzasta MOS. He was eventually confused with
a Christian. Hermit.
So it is also most The Hermit assist is confused with is also
mus The Hermit ends awesome. It was from this confusion, that
one story about dzasta. Moses was preserved, we probably
wouldn't have it. If they didn't mistake it for
this guy, but he talks about how he went into this cave with an
angel. Took him into a cave and they
sat down at a tree and they drink water from its roots and
talked about how sweet that water was.
And how was the food of angels and this idea of the food of
angels is Central to this Kelley claimed that the manuscript that
he got all this from, is this what he called?
The book of Dunstan named after the Archbishop of Canterbury, he
was a blacksmith and an alchemist and subject to visions
and he claimed it had been taken from his grave and there's one
text attributed to done. The survives we don't, he
probably didn't write it. But in it, he's constantly
calling he's talking about this substance, he calls Angels food,
and this Angels food. He says allows you to see into
the future, it allows do to see incredible distances.
He said it allows you to understand the language of the
birds which as you probably know.
That's that's a old alchemical idea.
Alchemy is written in the language of the birds they I say
also known as the green language of the birds.
What about? So actually we have a question
here but give me one second. I won't get to your question.
I'll let Shane ask it. But I used to follow actually an
account on Twitter called zou samosas Annapolis.
And this, I don't know if it was obviously it was somebody in the
Alchemy and stuff like that. But yeah, it's kind of a Rare
that you even hear anybody talk about those mous Central to
Alchemy. He if he's, where we got the
word and you have plenty of people Alchemists, and people
interested in alchemy will say that there's not one solution.
There are different schools of alchemy and that's true.
But in the beginning, there weren't there was his school of
alchemy and he was working with Acacia.
So from the beginning, this is in entheogenic.
Titian. So as far so just to clarify
though there are DMT Rich Acacia strands in Egypt and really,
okay? So like I said, I was I forget
who I was talking, I think it was Matthew Clark who wrote
Botanical ecstasies, you know, the Ayahuasca analog manuscript
on for Soma Like for me, you have those two competing ideas
of Chris Bennett, who's all about?
Cannabis we've had him on. We did it.
What was so much part 1 with them or is Clark is he's his
claim. Is that an Indian variety of
Acacia, right? Was something like like
Ayahuasca? Yeah.
And I'm say, I was asking about the Egyptian because like,
here's the thing, the, the story of Osiris the mythology is very
shamanic being taken to the underworld.
Being disassembled then be put back together, very archetypal,
shamanic. Something.
You might even see like South America and stuff like that.
So I would just say number one is very shamanic.
Yeah. Even the, even the motif of
being chopped up and thrown in the Nile, that's almost like
instructions for what you have to do to extract the root bark.
Remember the god, he's trapped in the tree.
And so, the tree is chopped up and put in water.
And you see this on a lot? Lots of alchemical manuscript so
where they're standing at this tree and there will be a crown
at the roots. One of them, the whole bottom is
covered in water and either standing in water.
So this the roots are submerged and it seems like there's
something to that. It's not just accidental, you
know, if it's possible. That is also, most was just
taking this symbol and saying we could use this, of course,
Acacia was already present in religion and mythology and
Egypt, but it I mean it's entirely possible that this was
encoded in it from the beginning.
I mean, we know that they, you know, had blue lotus cannabis
opium, you know, probably even some tro pains even if they were
taking mushrooms even mushrooms. I found that glyph from the
Temple of hathor on the outside where they're holding the little
thing with the mushrooms hanging off at the little clusters there
their pots, they're growing mushrooms.
Um did so they they've got, you know, they've got some kind of
end and there's no denying the way those mushrooms are drawn.
There are only a few mushrooms that grow like that, that have
that that's very particular psilocybin.
Kind of angle to them. That all from one point, they
look very much like a psychedelic mushroom now.
I mean, lots of people think that's what it is, but Just as
many people who think, that's not what it is.
They're mushrooms, but it doesn't mean their psychedelic,
their vote door Hannah graph. He and went supposedly, though,
they would only let the Pharaohs.
Eat mushrooms. It was like a, not like a
delicacy, but it was like almost like a special occasion that you
would eat mushrooms. I haven't heard that, I didn't
hear that, I know, and like, in the laws of Manu, you weren't
allowed to touch mushrooms, they were, they're awful.
Emmett, so anything that's taboo.
It's, there's a good chance that there's something to it.
Yeah, the pharaohs. Like I.
Hey, this technology. I'm only one touching this
technology, you know, right. And they pharaohs in the
beginning. They were the only ones who
were, who got to go through the duat, an end, to become a knock,
and go into the with the plate in this eventually called The
noetic Realm, the realm of the fixed Stars, where they became a
star, like a constellation, kind of But they were the only ones
that could do that. It was very private eventually
they it started being extended to the Pharaohs family and then
later to nobility and at first, they would but it would be read
aloud to the to the deceased as they were being mummified.
But eventually it started being carved in the pyramids were like
with the Pyramid of una's, the directions are carved on the
walls and if you if you're reading them and you Oh them at
leads. You out up into this, this
angular chamber to and the direction of the sky where
they're this portal is to get on the what they call the street of
stars which is the Milky Way. But once that tomb was raided
and people were able to see that and read it they wrote it down
of course so they could do it and then it started being it was
still secret. They weren't supposed to do it
so they would paint it on the inside of coffins.
And that's when the pyramid texts become the coffin texts.
And there are stairs variations in these coffin taxes.
Anything has very variations over time, but eventually these
get codified into what we know as the Egyptian Book of the Dead
like the Papyrus of ani, but it starts with just the Pharaohs,
being able to do this. Interesting Shane.
I know you're the question. Go ahead.
How did the principles of alchemy and Freemasonry shape
each other as they interacted? That's a good question.
So in the beginning masonry was a builder's.
Guild, What that means is, they were building houses.
They were building Cathedrals and it was very, it was still
initiatory because everything, in ancient times, there were
rights of Passage to enter you into something because you're
leaving your old life behind and taking on this new life.
And so, there were already initiations in place for people
becoming Masons and they had these moral teachings, about
what the working tools, symbolize how to use them in
your character and things. But people started claiming they
were Masons and they'd say I can build, I'll build this Cathedral
for you cheaper than that guy. And then the cathedral would
collapse on the inhabitants. Because of this happening, they
may and masonry. These people are called Cowan's
and eavesdroppers. But because this started
happening King James, who was a mason.
Gave the Masons the Masonic fraternity to the right to meet
in secret. At that time, the only people
who could meet in secret where the church and the king.
So, the Masons now have this, right?
And that made the Masonic Lodge, become a hotbed for ideas that
you couldn't necessarily say out loud in public and some of those
ideas were things about esoteric teachings, occult teachings, and
we know that the Like, even once once masonry became speculative,
it was no longer operative. They started letting in people
who had nothing to do with building.
Like Elias a schmoll who was an antiquary.
They let in. I believe Sir Robert Murray, I
believe he got into, he's an alchemist with with the Royal
Society. He was the court projector at
Whitehall, but they started letting in these hermetic types.
And this is when Alchemy starts creeping in now, or not.
In and around the same time, there was something written
called the Shah statutes kind of like a code for Mason's to it to
live by. An analysis was performed of
this Shaw statutes with the rules for, for rosicrucians, for
how they should behave in. I believe it's in Sigmund.
Richter's true and perfect, preparation.
It's there are very nearly identical.
Clearly one was copying off the other and the one that predates,
it is the rules for the rosicrucians.
And, of course, rosicrucians have always been into Alchemy
been predefined, predisposed to Alchemy.
So it came in that way for sure. Now, when when psychedelic
Alchemy started getting into masonry, if you read my book
angels in Vermillion you'll see a Schmo Liz is involved with
this red powder. He didn't call it a psychedelic,
but he's involved with this red powder, trying to talk to angels
Robert Boyle, the first chemist who invented Boyle's Law.
I mean, he's looking for this red powder.
We got to remember. Isaac Newton as a member this
time, probably the smartest man to ever live is a member at this
time and they're all preoccupied with drugs if because because of
this red powder and Sir Isaac Newton's.
Research assistant was this de ceglie, a who became the third
Grand Master of the Premier Grand Lodge in London.
He was also in charge of demonstrations alchemical,
demonstrated, how chemical scientific demonstrations at the
Royal Society. And so he was a practicing
Alchemist and he rewrote that Master Mason degree to make it
very reflective of the Osiris myth, a my opinion, and the
opinion of a lot of different Scholars.
And from there Alchemy Changed it.
I mean, it the way it looked changed the penalties, for
example, and masonry. When we take our, our Oaths were
given penalties that are gruesome.
And of course, they're not taken seriously, because you're not
saying that it's going to happen to you, it's more like you're
inviting this thing upon yourself, should you betray your
obligation, but Timothy Hogan. He was the first person I know
to to decode those penalties and show that step by step, it is a
process for alchemical extraction and those those
penalties seem To today some of this out chemical activities.
So they they influenced one another after de Segovia, got
into the lodge, but gradually Alchemy became something
different became, you know, people looking for a way to
transmute base Metals into gold. Now, that that Trope had been
there very early on, but for them, and I believe this for
them, it was a metaphor for transmitting Baseline.
Consciousness into illuminated consciousness Us or the way they
would have said it, making a man a God, but that that that's how
how it got there. It was a very honest process.
It. Organic process.
Interesting. When we're talking about all
these the symbolism and esoteric stuff.
So like now we know through science, they can take metals
and transmute them on very tiny scale into gold like because
that's what most people think of when they think of Philosopher's
Stone. Oh, it's there's some
ingredients or some sort of compound that will turn anything
into gold or whatever. For now we can do that with
science on like a very tiny scale, right?
But I think it's clear for anybody that studies like
Alchemy and these mystery schools and spirituality and
stuff like that that most likely what was happening is they were
transmuting via like you're saying like a psychedelic
experience, you know, it's that's really, you know, being
able to know that there's something more to life, I think
is far more. Valuable than just gold, right,
right, right. And, you know, that's a, that's
a classic technique with initiatory Traditions to dangle,
the carrot, you know, that gold is the carrot that that would
bring in the lowest scoundrel. And and possibly transmute him
into something more. I think that's part of the gold
thing is 222, a lure people to it in the first place.
And then once you get involved, you know, young thought it was
just about projection for psychological projection that
the because this, there's a Trope and alchemy that along
with, you know, it's a laboratory process and along
with the Perfection and creation of the Philosopher's Stone.
The Alchemist himself is perfected, like they happen at
the same time. Well, it's a lab process because
they're making drugs and it happens at the same time because
they get to use the drug when they're done.
They put it in their body, but young thought it was simply
psychological projection that these changes are happening in
them by watching, something happen in nature.
There's no doubt that projection is absolutely a thing, but I
don't think that's what's going on with Alchemy.
I think Young's interpretation as much as I love you.
Young and think he's verges on a prophet.
I don't think he did Alchemy and incredible service outside of
collating, a bunch of references and quotes that you really can't
find. He did the same thing with UFOs.
I mean, I love his book on UFOs, but he didn't come to a
conclusion, like their physical or non-physical.
They're just a manifestation of everything that was else that
was going on in the world and kind of like a mirror of our own
anxiety, but he doesn't actually say these are physical things or
not. Physical things or, you know,
anything like that. So, it's kind of similar to what
you're saying. If you've seen a UFO, it's
pretty freaking up. Close, you know, if you've seen
one within 50 to 100 yards away, it's pretty obvious.
It's a thing. It's not a hallucination for
anyone, who's hallucinated as regularly as I have, you know,
and I'm not saying I see UFOs all the time but I've had one
experience that was absolutely inexplicable and It was an it
was an object, you know, I didn't I didn't see anybody in
it. Like there were windows.
I didn't see any, you know, quote, unquote aliens.
But there was a thing that was absolutely unexplainable.
You know, and Young's mind because it's a saucer because it
is Ram, it's a symbol of the self because the circle is in
his system is the indicative of the self archetype which is the
when you have Incorporated, all of your projections and kind of
Not identified with any one of them, but sort of transcended,
all of them into this round. Consciousness, but he completely
ignores. The, the early ones were
cylindrical. Like the one I saw was
cylindrical. Looks like a long metal hot dog
or something. Like a Tic Tac no longer longer
than a Tic. Tac couple.
Tic Tacs. Yeah, the whole thing about
young to is that I take, I take it a little, I take what he
wrote and said, and I've applied it to my own philosophies.
I think there's a good possibility that What we're
seeing when we see these things. They are symbols or symbolic and
our perceptions are just not evolved or our Consciousness is
not evolved to understand whatever that actually is.
So we assign a value to it as of something.
Yeah, as opposed to what he's saying, which is he doesn't, it
could be, there could be not there, you know, like, I think
we take it a step further and say, Obviously people are seeing
these things do. Now, is that thing?
You know, maybe it's, maybe if we're talking dimensional thing,
maybe we're only seeing a sliver, maybe that's why they
look different and there's different shapes and stuff like
that. We're seeing different aspects
of different crafts from different dimensions.
Things like that. But just the, the idea that
we're assigning symbols to things that people have been
experiencing for a long time, I think just makes sense to me.
I'll take it a step further. There's nothing gonna go ahead.
I'll say that UFOs. Are assigning the symbols to us
there. They're the ones doing that.
Now this is a topic that I like an overlay talks about that.
You have the lady talks about that that like fairies all these
different symbols throughout history that were key to getting
their being assigned to I mean they know what we like.
So when we see I'm just like my actually brings me to my
question intersection between Freemasonry ancient knowledge
and possible. Like mac.
I should say ancient knowledge from non-human intelligences.
Have you ever heard or read anything about that?
You mean like like the sitchin hypothesis and that kind of
thing. I don't know what that is, but
go with that. Yeah, I think Shane's just
saying is there any evidence and kind of like what you've
researched for UFOs? UAP, is that correct?
Is that what you're saying? They've come across Knowledge
from something that we would call abnormal along the line,
not necessarily UFOs and we can apply that to anything.
I'm saying paranormal in any way like they have you ever come
across anything like that? Like you would say almost a
religious experience per se. You know what I mean?
I'm not sure I follow something in.
The past that that is comparable to a UFO like a problem.
As you research, have you come across anything.
That's kind of, you know, with the ancient knowledge that with
Freemasonry comes across, you know, there's a lot of that in
there. Is there anything ever about
that? They've got this knowledge from
other places? That maybe if you're the normal,
do you need what I mean? Not a masonry.
Now, you know, you'll get people who will lock in on like the Ark
of the Covenant that shows up in the Royal Arch degree.
And but no, no, it's the, the anything and masonry is pretty
predicated upon. It came from God, basically.
You know, it's a masonry purports to go back all the way
to Adam and he was the first Mason with the Fig Leaf was the
first Masonic apron that Anything that being said, okay,
let me get a little bit more in depth on it then because for me,
those are the two same things God, that whatever.
So let me ask this, are there any in Freemasonry symbols
things that you talked about do related to that?
That aren't in the judeo, Christian Bible per se like
experiences with a angel you know, because I understand what
you're saying. It's a Christian thing, right?
So I'm asking our anything that's outside yesterday receive
knowledge. He actually your aren't you?
Not a Loud to be Catholic or Christian if you're a Freemason.
Is that true? No, that's your.
If you're Catholic, you can't be a Freemason, right?
You'll get excommunicated but right masonry is open to Men of
but they want you to believe in a higher power, right?
Like it's nice you yeah, the Ulster, the grand architect of
the universe or something along those lines.
Your you have to profess a belief in a Supreme Being what
you think or say that Supreme Being is Masonry.
Care less. Are you allowed to tell us?
Why not? Why are you not allowed to be
Catholic? Is that?
Or is that like a secret? You can be Catholic and be a
Freemason, can't be a Freemason to be Catholic Church.
Will indicate you got you got you.
All right with there's no religion rejected in know you
masonry accepts Buddhist which it's arguable especially
theravada Buddhism that it's largely atheistic, but but it
still Do you know why the Catholic Church doesn't allow is
because it's they think it's like a heresy or something.
There's a there's a, there's an official edict, you can read
that. The pope wrote against
Freemasonry, I can get you a copy, the Scottish Rite has
pamphlets of it just so we can educate ourselves on what their
claims are. But it looks like that
Freemasonry was lumped in with Alchemy and the Alchemy, the
pope spoke out. Alchemy to you.
Can't be an alchemist to be Catholic and it was largely
because of the crimes of coining Edward.
Kelly had his ears cropped for this crime of coining, which is
passing off adulterated Metals, as pure Metals being able to
make something look like it's gold when it's really not.
And this was the, this problem goes way back to our committees.
This getting in the bath water, didn't seem the displacement
over reasoning. It was that was a big deal.
That Eureka thing was a big deal was because they couldn't figure
out if this gold was real or not.
So that's a problem that goes goes way back and that was
wrapped up with this. Now Shane to answer your
question about masonry. No I don't think masonry has
what you're looking for, but in the rosicrucian society, that's
another story and the rosicrucian society.
There are direct references to what they call the holy ones.
Us and talking about about being able to initiate communication
with them, things like that. I can write that down.
Thank you very much. That's you answer my question.
That's something I want to look up.
It's it's fascinating the rituals.
I don't know if the find them published anywhere.
I can't tell you what's in the rituals themselves, but I can
tell you that, I mean, there's a there's a prayer that's that I
can say for certain where it's you're praying for the
possibility that you'll get to communicate with the The holy
ones. Sounds sounds like Shane's got a
little project here. Actually, I just looked it up.
I'm going to enjoy this if you're if you're in here
watching right now, you need to look this up.
You like UFOs. So yeah, this whole thing is
absolutely fascinating because I mean for a long time I've
believed that psychedelic use and Altered States Of
Consciousness. Consciousness are at the root of
all metaphysics. Like, I don't know how people
would have come. Up with metaphysical ideas
without the help of an altered state.
Because if you think about it walking around in your
day-to-day Consciousness, you're not really on that level, right?
Yeah, you can meditate but that's an altered state of
consciousness. Yeah, you can dream.
That's an altered state of consciousness.
You know what I'm saying? So it's like for me, it just
makes sense that all these things, whether it's
metaphysical stories from the Bible or esoteric works or
you're talking about Freemasonry and all the The the symbolism
and stuff like that, I think it just really all just makes
sense. I don't know to go back to
yelling a little bit. Mids meds aren't created by men
who say I'm going to sit down and write a religion.
If they do that, it's not going to work the way they think.
It's going to work mids, thrust themselves upon, man.
We don't possess them. They possess us when a myth
emerges, It's all, it's all that.
Can be true. That makes sense.
Even though, even the Christ myth, the Christ's teachings,
what would what most people would call a myth?
For the people who participated in that when that was emerging
it wasn't like oh maybe this is true.
Oh maybe I could believe this it thrust itself upon them to such
a degree that they couldn't deny it and all real mids work that
way and I think, you know, to call to call UFOs.
A modern myth, I think is problematic because number one
More than one person sees UFOs at a time they're filmed.
We have yet to catch a myth on film, you know, there's
something else going on with those.
I I just I have difficulty putting them in the same bracket
you know? Yeah.
I mean it's definitely a whole different thing and I think
that's why it's so fascinating and why we're all kind of waking
up to all these different things.
From trying to understand what Consciousness is to try to
understand the Psychedelic experience to try and understand
the UFO. UAP experience.
You know, these are all are you know, you say modern myth, but
they're more modern Mysteries. Those are the things right now
that we are like on the precipice of trying to figure
out that will catapult us into the next.
Paradigm time period where we maybe get more information and
live with these ideas and save them a little bit more and that
kind of figure out what the next batch is after that.
So this this coming, you know, coming from the sky is a fairly
new idea is especially like in Greek culture, nobody was going
up. Everybody was going down into
the underworld at that time. The gods lived on Mount Olympus
man, lived in the middle and the spirits of the Dead lived in the
Underworld. You the kabiri.
You have there. Those are dead to rights and
It's, it's a mystery tradition, but but the they were underworld
figures like they came out of stones and out of caves, right?
But you know you look at Parmenides, you look at
Pythagoras empedocles all these early pre-socratic free
Play-Doh. People are going to the
underworld, it isn't until Plato comes and allegorize.
Has that trip to the underworld and says no, We actually fall
from up there and that fall that we have fallen to Hades.
This is Hades. There's no further going down.
We're at the bottom. So the only way to go is up,
that's a platonic idea in the west before that everybody was
going into the underworld. And that's true.
Even in Native American. But so that's why you have the
with the Lusitania Mysteries and Demeter, and Persephone.
That's why that's pre Plato. So, that's why you have them
descending into the underworld with, you know, right.
The Agrarian colds and the symbolism and every goes back to
Ishtar and ancient Babylon Ishtar.
She's the planet Venus and Venus because it's, it's an internal
Planet. Like Mercury, it doesn't have a
regular orbit like the other planets to where they rise in.
The east, go over the ecliptic and set in the west, Venus rises
in the East, and then dips down and disappears in the Underworld
and then rises in the west and dips down.
So she creates these horns, which is the the bull horns,
which is one of our symbols but Ishtar is the myth of this.
She descends into the underworld in order to use trying to take
the throne from her sister, a reached a gal she fails
miserably but she gets back out and that's the Nobody gets back
out. That's why you have to have a
psychopomp to get in and out there, which is the role of babo
Hecate e and the Ellison, Ian Mysteries.
She's the one who can get Persephone out of the
underworld. But yeah, everybody's going down
in the Native American traditions.
There's only a couple of tribes that I know of that claimed to
have come from the stars, the skies, I think the Ojibwe, or
None of them but the rest of them all emerged from the middle
of the Earth. They came out of caves here in
Mississippi, there's not any way a cave, which is where the
creek, the Choctaw, the Chickasaw, they claim to have
them when they emerge, they came out of this cave and I find that
more fascinating than the than the tension motifs.
Going going down. The they would represent this
trip white by what we would recognize as swastikas these
file thought crosses her up all over Mississippi and iconography
and the they represent whirlpools the way to go down.
And when they tested these, these vessels with mass spec
tompa, spekt spective homages spectrometers Spectrometry.
When they when they did those tests, they tested positive for
debt Tura. Probably one of the most potent
underworld drugs, its associated with the Moon.
It looks like the moon, they bloom under the moon and for
ancient Americans, North Americans, particularly in the
Southeast, they had this idea that the sky turns like the
whole thing turns. So, Oh, Underground, when it's
day time, all of the stars are under us and the moon as under
us. But when nighttime happens, they
flip and the underworld comes on top.
So anything at night is the underworld emerged come out And
that's what they were using. This stuff for the same, the
same descent purposes there. These two hero twins that show
up a lot and they same hero twins show up in the popol vuh
and, and Mexicans, and Central American religion.
But they, they're their father is the god of the above World,
kind of like Zeus. And he goes to battle with these
underworld. Basically, the Titans and the
Titans win, the there's version, the Titans beat him cut his head
off and bury his head. Beneath this, this ball court.
It's not a kind of like the Mayan ball game, but it's not a
ball, they used and North America.
It was kind of, it's something called a disco Idol.
It's a disc Stone disc that they would roll like a wheel and
throw spear Rosetta called chunky sticks.
But his head was buried beneath this.
And you'll see lots of images of people carrying, severed, heads,
and in the iconography of the mississippians, there's this
man, Birdman one of the, the prime figures you see from
Cahokia shows up in Etowah, but it's this bird man with a beak
and he's holding a severed head. Well, archaeologists are finding
these these head pots. These head human head, Effigy
pots. And when they tested the, this
one recently that I just read about, I think it was found in
the central Arkansas Valley, I think it tested positive for
d'etre. So it's like that head in the
ground and the underworld, putting your head in the
Underworld with this debt Tura, very prevalent and the book I
have I've got I've got two books coming out with inner
Traditions. The second one is on this
Native, American Shamanism, particularly in the Mississippi
Valley. You're familiar with burial
mounds. Yeah.
The burial made a whole slide show up, so with dr.
Gregory little, or he walked us through pretty much all the main
ones in the u.s. Yeah, that.
Well, the these burial, mounds and Effigy Mounds were built by
the earlier Hopewell and Edina, and Poverty Point cultures, but
they would be abandoned and then re-established by different
groups of people and eventually, what we call the Mississippian
culture came and Started turning them into something more.
They started turning them into these big platform.
Mounds that look like like truncated pyramids and they
really, are they have four sides to them flat top.
And the Monks Mound, it's called in in Cahokia, is actually the
same dimensions as the Great Pyramid of Giza, and its larger
than the than the pyramid t0t will con.
And Co, but they're basically these pyramid structures. and, I
got to I got so I got my hands on some archaeological reports.
Some of them weren't published and it was these unpublished
ones that really Blew my mind with this stuff, but they
recovered Botanical assemblages that when they broke them down
and started studying them. There's, of course, there's
plenty that are foods, you know, that they're eating, but there
are lots of plants that are drugs and these plants tend to
be all in the same locations. And these drugs are nicotiana
Rustica which is a very potent form of tobacco.
It's about 9 to 13 times more potent than a commercial.
Backhoe. They would have datura black
Nightshade which is solanum tyke Anthem which contains
Scopolamine just like datura and they would have morning, glory
seeds morning, glory seeds have LSA and they don't make it.
The plant doesn't produce it naturally.
There's this ancient symbiotic relationship between a clavis
Epps type fungus. And two strains of Morning.
Glory the Heavenly blue string in which is I put me a tricolor
and then the Quorum Bosa, Rivera Rivera, what the Mexicans
called. Oh Luke.
We Richard Evans Schultz, wrote a book on that and identified it
as this other species of psychedelic Morning Glory.
But they had these seeds of morning glory and there's at
least two different Scholars that believe, they were
combining all of them and to this one really psychedelic Brew
Ooh, because they find them together all the time.
But what one, one of the things that no archaeologist has noted,
and I think it's because they don't know this.
Is that they appear to be using an Ayahuasca analog.
Now Ayahuasca is of course, South American Beverage made
from two different plants, containing one contains DMT when
containing monoamine oxidase inhibitor to cause a very, very
intense, visually Rich psychedelic experience.
Well two of the plants that they keep recovering from these areas
are good. Did see a tree acanthus which is
also known as Acacia. Americana the acanthus that
akka. And there actually is a case.
It's a it's a conjugation of acacia tree acanthus.
So those are present and it's only.
There's only been one person to save this that I know of, it's a
keeper of the trout. Keeper trout and Keeper of the
child, you'll see people write it different, but he wrote a
book on. I think it's called some, yes,
some simple tryptamines where he has saved.
All these different plants trying to find out if they had
DMT in them or not in other drugs.
But this tree came up positive, and it was from reading that
that we started experimenting with that tree.
And sure, enough it is incredibly potent and alongside
it are assemblages of passion flower passiflora incarnata,
which is our native source of MAOI, you combine them.
And like I said, there's already two Scholars that think they are
combining all of them, but if you combine them, the result is
what I call Miss Alaska, I call it the Miss Ahoskie hypothesis
it. Incredible increasingly probable
that they were doing this and even if let's say they weren't
biting with passion, Which the past flowers there.
So they probably were, but they, they have this beverage that
drink called black drink, that's made from your pain, your pain
Holly, it's ilex vomitoria. When when desoto's people
arrived in Florida, they observed the natives every other
day or every two days they would have this ritual where the women
would Brew up, the leaves from a Yaupon tree into this thick.
Black tea that they would, then fill these massive lightning
whelk, shelves, with from the Gulf of Mexico and use this as a
ceremonial cup. The shill for them is a symbol
of the Underworld, the underworld God brought them
shells as a gift along with copper.
So they drink this out of these shells.
And vomit over and over. Drink it and vomit.
Well, that's so it was because
of this description that botanists.
Gave it the name ilex vomitoria, the ilex that makes you vomit.
We found specify the only grows in like one place in the whole
country and it's right here where I live.
And so we got the leaves, we roasted them.
And we were like, let's see. What's, what the deal is with
this. It got us so wired that we
couldn't believe how strong was it's full of caffeine.
It's the only native Source. What is this is passionflower.
The Nitto ilex vomitoria gone? Okay.
Y'all pain Holland. So the it's it's related to
Yerba mate in South America. Yeah, those that's what the
football or soccer whatever you want to call.
It players, drink they drink it, like during the middle of
matches, they have these little cups with, like, a little, like,
metal straw metal straw? Yeah.
Yep. Yesterday, these guys were
drinking it out of Welsh elk shells.
Well, we drank and drank and drank and we couldn't make
ourselves vomit. We were expecting.
We were ready and we had our buckets and nothing.
So I thought, man that well, they're wrong about this.
There's got to be something else that they're In there and of
course Ayahuasca is not one of its epithets is La purga, The
Purge because it makes you vomit over and over when you drink it
and it's noted in like two or three different ethnological
reports that there are secret plants that are unknown to white
men that they put in this black drink.
I think this is that. So secret plants.
I think it's this blend of or either individual datura.
Ha Nightshade morning, glory seeds, tobacco, and then this
missile fosca. Now even if like I said, even if
they weren't using the passion flower tobacco works as an MAOI.
A lot of people don't know that they'd be like, well, a cheetah
any tobacco or like wild tobacco?
Well, I don't know if commercial tobacco is strong enough as is.
I don't know if the compounds in it, that work is monoamine.
Oxidase inhibitors. Are concentrated enough and
Commercial tobacco as a somebody.
What about like, st. John's Wort to st.
John's Wort is not an MAOI. It's the see reports that say it
is. No, it's not and it cannot be
mixed with an MAOI. So if you're listening, don't
take those things together. Don't take passion flower and
st. John's Wort your brain, will
hate you for it, but they have the.
So, the tobacco works as a monoamine, oxidase inhibitor and
recent Publication showed that ilex vomitoria has monoamine
oxidase inhibitor. And so, if they were putting the
acacia Americana in this at all, which it looks like they were,
it's not a good wood to build with.
It's covered in Thorns, big patches that can hear I got
here. This is a this is just one Thorn
and they say this is one from. They stick out in clusters you
can barely touch the truth. He looks like you've really hurt
you. Yeah, the pot on it is a
passionflower positive. Just kind of where's the passion
flower indigenous to Here it goes all over it.
So every yeah, believe where the United States is it Different
species, grow all over. But okay, once we get here
growing, they're growing like every fence line out in the
country. Mississippi, Tennessee, Georgia,
Florida, the grow in Alabama. I was gonna ask you to what
about doing like an MAOI with psilocybin.
Would that do anything? Oh, yeah, oh yeah.
Oh yeah, but in my experience MAOI, at least triples the
effects of psilocybin. You can take 2 G and it will be
like, you took six or seven grams the caveat though, for me,
is that it's up for some reason, it cuts off the visuals, I don't
get I don't get visuals when I mix them, but I but my head
space is so much. 'And what I'm usually
comfortable with the first time I did peganum harmala with
psilocybin mushrooms, I was living in Tupelo, Mississippi in
an apartment. And I don't usually talk about
my experience as I don't, but I'll tell you this one, my
ceiling opened up and there were I couldn't see them but I knew
they were there. There were these twelve gods
made out of stone that were kind of leaned over.
They were looking at me and I knew in that moment that I was
being judged that they were trying to determine whether or
not I could be whether or not it would be a good idea to put me
in a position to where I could help other people as funny as
that sounds are. Like we don't know you got to
figure out if we can even use you and it was So overwhelming.
I was I couldn't move. I mean I was crushed under the
weight of these Gods but it's it, it definitely works.
The passion flower alone. Just like, just like peganum
harmala, it's active. If you take enough of it, my
wife and I was first experience with passion flower.
We read about it. Found out that it was a MAOI and
we were driving and saw it all over this fence post.
We're on our way. Go have dinner at this tire
restaurant. So I picked all these flowers
and stuffed them in my pockets and we went in there.
And we're sitting here waiting on our food and I pulled the
flowers out and we just were like, okay, let's try it.
So we started eating id-1 and cheating.
I didn't want you to go and I don't remember how many we ate,
but eventually, by the time, our food came, both of us were
asleep. The Harvest sleep on the table.
It was so dreamy. And just And that's with a
slight nausea, it's like kind of sickness to it but peganum,
harmala does that to me too. I think it's just the nature of
the harm lean alkaline. See, they do something rough on
your stomach but it's but the passion flower, you know, we
took to making Chango with it changa, they call it some
places. That's what my friend Kelly all
calls it. Shout out to Khalil and
Australia wearing your shirt. Khalil.
They call it changa, we in a sippy call it changa, but we
would make it with passion flower, and it's a great smoking
herb. And I think it's got a history
of being a smoking Herb in Mexico.
Yeah, no, that's, that's super fascinating.
Yeah, no, I was just curious. I've never mixed that I've mixed
obviously psilocybin with other psychoactive compounds, but I
was just curious of the effects. And to your point, though, you
know, what's weird is and the past?
I mean, I've done psilocybin a lot, especially when I was
younger. But the, when I would smoke
cannabis, or VAP, or whatever it would also take away my visuals,
but then sometimes it would like reignite.
Item 2. It's like a weird thing where it
could either help or hurt the situation.
But I'll tell you. One thing, alcohol will take
away the effects of psilocybin 100% that I have observed.
Yeah, yeah, I've noticed that to alcohol.
It doesn't seem to do anything to LSD, but mushrooms it
absolutely quills. The effect.
I've heard it does with peyote to you see, two different
factions. Of natives that use peyote.
One faction will say that that the Peyote Spirit loves alcohol
and it only works with us so long as we drink beer or liquor
because it's trying to get the beer and liquor.
That threw us. There's another faction that
says that's absolutely wrong. You do not mix.
The two, they are two different paths, you know, and I know I've
got a friend in North Carolina, that likes to mix MAOI with
mescaline and he claims it's it's one of the most incredibly
beautiful experiences. Interesting.
He makes his of a San Pedro. Yeah, yeah it's something I
definitely probably sometime in the future, give a whirl.
But yeah, so I mean as far as the Mao is you would have to
probably go with like a peganum harmala, or Syrian Rue or
passionflower we did. So we to when I make Miss of
laska Which I was making this before, I knew about the burial
mounds thing so that it just kind of Dove tailed.
But when we make it, we find that 10 to 12 grams of glad it,
see a tree account, those root bark and 25 to 30 grams of
passion, flower is, is right about The Sweet Spot.
Yeah, that's interesting. So did you ever do anything with
the thing? I sent you that paper about
because you remember the all the reports of like that Pompey
site, that was featured in mortality key than some of those
other sites. Had lizard tails and those Vats
with all those empty engines and I sent you that paper about how
lizard Tails have psychoactive compounds in them and you're
doing that whole thing with, is it heck Cot or Hecate or
whatever? Rickety, yeah I could see from.
So we were talking about animated statues earlier, one of
the most famous examples of statue animation is from the
neo-platonist pro class, who is able to animate a Hecate statue
that he made smile and torches light up behind her.
But remember these things happen in Visions, Visions not actually
happening and a good, she tells us this and that In the county
and oracle's, which is a kind of like a Bible for the
neo-platonist. It's a text that was received by
this father-son team called the Giuliani, and they claim to have
received it from the spirit of Plato.
So, Plato's Soul comes to them, dictates to them.
This message from Hecate e and from Apollo, I think, one claim
is an Apollo was involved, which these are the two main Gods of
Divination in ancient Greece. The very last fragment of the
Chaldean oracle's fragment to 24, I think is instruction on
how to animate a heck of t statue, and it's the very first
thing. It says, is you have to
construct the statue using Savage Rue now, Savage Rue goes
back to planning the elder. He calls The Savage rooooar,
while Drew and his natural history and he's commenting on.
The difference in common ruin Savage room.
Common roux is what we know Ruta graviola pne's it's what's used
it one point it was used to fling.
Holy water in the Catholic church it's a bit has a bit
addictive. Kind of are about it.
The Romans would add it to wine for two to increase the bouquet.
But he says that that Savage ruin common, we were the same
thing. The only difference is we've
cultivated it to this point, it's useful, but he says the
Savage Rue is even though it's used as a medicine and it helps
with Melancholy, he says, that it causes sweating opens the
pores and that if you take too much of it, it's a poison and
you'll die. And it's it's been agreed sense.
Since the 1615 1600s is, when they start saying that Savage
ruis Pagan from Allah, identifying it as peganum
harmala. And she's saying to construct
her statue using this and then she says to decorate the statue
with lizards that you find about the house.
Meaning, I guess house geckos. But there there's a report you
can find. Look up lizard, intoxication and
India and there's this report of a man who is addicted to these
10 to 20 lizards a day. He smokes and eats he catches
them, and he's an opiate addict. Claims it makes the Opium so
much stronger when he takes the lizards and the report is a
medical report they're saying they don't understand what's in
there. But whenever you're talking
about in and it's in Italy, where they discovered these.
Let's go doli. These big Vats of wine that were
in a temple of Persephone Hecate and Demeter.
IE andalus Indian style Temple. And when they tested the
residues, they found that it had opium and there.
And they found evidence of, I believe Pagan, mhm, Allah,
harmala alkaloids, but even if they had enough, they next to
the vet was this huge pile of lizard remains bones and from
these lizards that they apparently were adding to this
potion. Now, there's a king named,
Mithra, Oddities, and he was obsessed with these elixirs of
long life. And he had this one Elixir that
he took that, he was named after him, the pronunciation and the
spelling is escaping me at something, like me throughout at
a mm or something like that, but they found a recipe for this,
the ingredients and it called for Specifically said set
average Rue in it, which again would be peganum harmala now, we
know like the bufo, it's no longer bufo alvarius.
It's been reclassified. But the Colorado, Colorado River
to River toe that produces 5 m, EO D Mt.
I mean, those things exist. They don't exist anywhere
outside of the Colorado River in that region, but that doesn't,
doesn't mean there wasn't one at one time.
You can bufo alvarius. Isn't is endangered right now.
Due to, you know, people say overharvesting it's not
overharvesting. It's due to us completely taking
over their habitat building roads and things like that.
And there were no, there's no shortage of roads in Rome.
So I mean if something like that can affect the population to a
point of Extinction I could see how there was probably some kind
of European toad or lizard that was possessed of.
What about pastas me? T.
What about the Act that lizard tails, you know, regrow, there
could be some sort of a biological thing that has
something new to tied to that mechanism.
How, you know, these things can reproduce that?
I mean, that there's obviously a lot of weird endogenous things
happening at that point that maybe some lizards have Scat
Cat, Catherine. I think it's called Kathy on the
same thing that's in in You needles.
Yeah, you were innocent lie. It's that that indeed guy.
I think I read that to the the, it was like a spiny lizard or
something. It was like a desert lizard.
It was the guy that your tiny tail, lizard.
Yeah. But there they'll find them in
the house. Okay.
It's okay. That's in the recipe.
It says, lizards found about the house and in the India report it
says spiny-tailed lizards that are common in the houses
people's houses. Yeah, it's fast.
So it's it's very fascinating, you know, I think there's
something to it. I wanted to bring and I wanted
to bring something to your attention.
So we were doing like a Twitter space, a while ago.
It was like a UFO, Twitter, space.
And this lady, she was from Greece and we were talking.
I was joking around. I'm like, oh, you know, you guys
know about psychedelics over there with the loose, any
Mysteries. And she's like, yeah, she's
like, we've been doing that forever and then we started
talking and I mean, she's she's, you know, she lives there, she's
from there. She knows all about it.
I said something like, oh, so do you think it was, you know, our
God or clavis up spur pay or whatever.
And she goes, no, she goes, it was mushrooms.
I go. What do you mean?
She goes, the the ancient Greek word for one grape or single
grape is the same as mushroom. I'm like, oh that's interesting.
I haven't really done too much research to follow up on that
but mushrooms grow everywhere. I don't see why that couldn't be
the case. Yeah.
Have you read Karl AP rux book? Sacred mushrooms of the Goddess.
Yeah, I've read rocks. I've read that, I've read road
to a lusus and the immortality, their different conclusions, you
know? Right.
Releases or guy conclusion, but in sacred mushrooms, he's
proposing that it was was probably Amanita muscaria or
some some psilocybin mushroom. And Matthew Clark thinks it's an
Ayahuasca and analog as well. Lucius.
Yeah, because I mean, peganum harmala is prevalent that whole
area. So bright.
I mean you're familiar with Benny.
Shannon's speculative hypothesis right biblical entheogens.
Oh yeah. Yeah that Rabbi guy, that's
researching, he's not a rabbi, he's always not professor of
psychology at Hebrew University in Israel.
Okay? Now I know you're totally yeah.
Who proposed? Yeah, there's peganum.
Harmala grows there and Against the earlier person's claims who
you said, said there were no active occations out there.
Acacia Senegal is out there and there's another one that's out
there that many should know mentions in the paper that are
active. And he's basically saying that
Moses could have combined these two things, but he doesn't have
any real proof. I'd first time, I read that
paper, I thought this is ridiculous.
I'm going to rebut this, but as soon as I started trying, I
realized he he doesn't He goes very, very light into it.
I don't know how deep he pursued his speculative hypothesis, but
when I started looking at it, Moses, his first experience with
the burning bush, and that's what he claims.
The Burning Bush was, it was some kind of either was a vision
from the psychedelics or this bush was the Psychedelic and
that's what he hints at. And so I started pursuing that
the the burning bush correlation Well, the word in the Hebrew
text. And obviously isn't burning
bush. It's labor, Sana.
And these two words appear nowhere else in the Bible.
They're unique to this one verse.
He saw labor. Sana, Leba means in sold.
Just like I said, animated it means like it's glowing from a
life inside of it. A light is inside of it.
Sana. There are two definitions for
Santa. One is a Keysha this is you can
look at Biblical Hebrew dictionaries.
Look up Santa it says it's Acacia.
The second definition is a Tamarisk, a rock Thorn which is
a thorny small plant that looks like a geisha but in miniature
form. So he saw an insult Acacia, I
thought well that that's very significant so I Start to a
rabbi and Memphis that that I'm friends with.
And that's what do you think about this?
And he said, well, the word Leba, you know, if we have this
problem, we go to the etymology of the word and try and see
where the end of the earlier, the root of the word shows up
and he says, the route of Labor is Lee Bob.
Which means? Thorn means a sharp point on
something like a thorn or a spear.
I thought, what you know, how is this possible that this he's
right? And he said in sent and Santa he
said that the that from ancient rabbinical tradition Senna is is
seen as a phonetic and a gram of Sinai.
They're not spelled the same but they're almost pronounced the
same. So he says the fire on the bush
is the same as the Fire on the Mountain.
That Moses viewed. So it's very possible.
You know, that this is what's being said in this kind of
encoded form. Now when Moses What up, on
Sinai? The children of Israel.
The first thing they did was said he's not coming back at
called his brother, Aaron. They said Aaron, he's not coming
back, he's been up there for days.
Do us a favor? Take all of our gold and melt it
down and form it into a bull for us.
Make us a calf. We can worship and he does this,
right? I already do this.
I mean, if he's already invested in what Moses is doing, but does
it? And when Moses comes back down
from the mountain and sees this, do you remember what happens at
this point? What he made them do with the
calf. Yeah, Dad.
I mean, he made them throw it away.
Mean they were all like debauchery heiress and didn't
they take? He made him destroy it or
something. He made them grind.
It into a powder. Mix it with water and drink it
interesting. He made them drink it yet.
As we said earlier, about animated statues, right?
Well, I was the same way with the whole burning bush thing.
I mean, I've talked to a few people, the idea of it burning
and then inhaling it or whatever and getting high off the DMT,
obviously is not. That's, there's no way.
There's it's not potent enough to create that kind of effect,
so it would have to be you already in that state seen a
bush burning, right? Like, that's the misconception
with that whole idea. I think you have, you know, like
Rogan and a couple other people talk about.
Out. You know, they were literally
like smoking the bush or the Bush was smoking or what you
know whatever. But it's actually they were
already. Yeah I think he got in that
state. Because he was Egyptian he grew
up in Egyptian circles he was close to royalty now and ancient
Egypt, like you said, a Cyrus gets reassembled at the Osiris
Festival. They would bake body parts like
bread and the shape of body parts these cakes and hide them
and people would really find them and reassemble them and
then eat it in a feast. But the priests they didn't
participate in this, they had their own form of bread, that
was in this in and send the exact shape of the hieroglyph
for Thorne. Says they look like triangles.
And they would keep it in this big box that in even in budge.
He says it's a box of some kind of Redwood.
Now, this box has poles that run on each side and during the
festival, they carry it around and say that God is in this box
that the we're parading around Osiris the deity.
That's the Ark of the Covenant. That's the same way.
The Ark of the Covenant is built.
There's even a, an image of the deity is on top of the box.
When Moses gives them the instruction about the Ark of the
Covenant. He says, you have to make it
from Acacia. You have to make the polls from
Acacia. That's the only way to do this,
then he says you have to house it out in the desert.
We got to make this cool place, we got a cool box.
Now we need a cool place to keep it and they keep create the
Tabernacle out there and it's made out of Acacia with
everything about it is made out of Acacia and then he says,
cover the acacia and gold remember that golden calf form.
And you don't pop a mean. He it says he heated it and then
powdered it grounded into a powder.
My suspicion is that these are solar signatures and Alchemy
have something called signatures wear.
Like, gold has the signature of the sun Acacia has the signature
of the Sun. The Thorns are the light, the
Rays coming off. What they're doing is making an
animated, statute is what I believe, the Golden Bull, the
golden calf, isn't they didn't just make this up, that's an
ancient Egyptian deity. It's a the apis bull.
It goes back to its the oldest deity.
Worshipped in Memphis whenever Osiris became the main deity
worshipped, he was still called apis Osiris.
Apis mean honey, bull, honey, honey bees, so it's a bull that
somehow a honey bee and that honey, that's that, that solar
signature. They do the same thing with the
acacia. They these the The Ark of the
Covenant, they code it and gold and then they hide within it
Mana. You know, I know of at least
three different interpretations of manna that are very, very
strong arguments that identified as something psychoactive, but I
think that's yes, it is. I think man I do you make the
connection of I've heard other people talk about like, man on
mushrooms. This idea that they're wandering
through the desert eating It says it grew grows in the ground
with the morning with the do, right?
With the hoarfrost. So they come in the morning and
the same way that Mushroom sprout, and if you don't pick
them in time, they breed worms and stink.
I mean, this classic mushroom description.
He says that they're the size of a coriander seed, which is a
good description of a pen. The when they first sprout, but
then there's another researcher that wrote The Mysteries of Mana
mystery of Mana. He passed away in 2016.
Daniel Merkur, Dan Merkur, brilliant scholar.
He argues that it's ergot and he makes some pretty good arguments
of one of the arguments I put in My first book, how chemically
Stone talking about the threshing floor, because the
Mason Temple is built on a threshing floor.
When I read that, I thought, why don't where do I know that from?
And I knew the threshing floor reference from road to a lusus
where there's the threshing floor of triptolemus where they
would ceremoniously separate the ergot from The Barley, according
to Ruck Wasson, mmm Hoffman's, hypothesis, which I think is
strong. Well, The.
King Solomon's Temple was meant to be on large-scale.
A reproduction of the Tabernacle, in the wilderness,
it says the specifically, in the first degree in Freemasonry, but
modern Scholars agree that the Tabernacle probably didn't exist
and it's a projection into the past of King Solomon's Temple.
And Merkur says, so it's very if it's an exact replica, like they
say that it's very possible that the, the Tabernacle was built on
a threshing floor. If you look at numbers, there's
something mercker calls, the drought or deal where these two
women are accused of adultery. And the priest take dust from
the floor of the Tabernacle, mix it with water, just like with
that bull and have the woman drink it, and they tell her that
if she's guilty, that she will be punished by God and that
punishment will be. That her belly will swell up and
the Hearth. I will rot off like finally
gangrene from Erica green, right?
And Merkur immediately, he said this is this is ergot poisoning
That they're talking about so blue.
So we have ergot, we have ergot all over the place.
We have proof from chalices from the elucidate Mysteries.
We have, you know, we had dental calculus of dense dentally on
the other night. She said, the first recorded
thing is from Germany in the 800s, I believe, 800 ad,
somewhere around there first like, recorded modern
experience. So we have all this her, got how
do we convert that or How is that converted?
Then I know there's a clip online of Terence McKenna.
Talking about the elusive need Mysteries and you know, he
thinks it's mushrooms because you have the ingredients and
it's like barley mint and something else and Waters on
there and he says, Waters and actually an auto gum.
It's not really water but you would replace that with, you
know, the ER, God or the, the fungus from the wheat, or The
Barley or whatever. But then, you know, he's talking
about You know, he again, he thinks it's mushrooms, but then
he's talking about how they would like since it's boiling
that maybe you sift off some of the top or maybe that would get
rid of some of the neuro toxic chemicals and some of the newer
editions of road to a looses. There's an appendix at the End
by. I think his name's Peter Webster
where he tries to reproduce this.
It's been so long since I read it, but I can't remember if he
was successful or not. That's one place to look.
I have. I have friends working with this
trying to get to the bottom of it, and the two methods that
they think are the most promising are a simple cold
water extraction because the others, the - the bad toxins are
water-soluble that there's evidence for that, they haven't
tried it yet. They're doing all the testing
first, but the other method that they mentioned was was oil,
soaking it in oil and and the possibility of the proper stuff,
not floating to the top knot. Something like that.
I'm not a, I'm not a chemist. Yeah.
But there are people right now working with this, trying to get
to the bottom of it, Amanda Fielding the Countess with
Beckley Foundation. Oh, I know Amanda feeling.
Who else would I got to meet her?
And we'll shoot trepan their own head.
All right, she's she's one of my heroes.
Hold on, let me pull up a bigger balls than any man on this
plane. Here we go.
This is from a lusus. Hold on.
On a second. Let me get these names off your
here. So here you have the wheat on
the left what do you think that that flower in the middle is
symbolizes? You know it just it would be
purely speculative. If I was to even offer
something, the top kind of resembles the nodes on the top
of a poppy pod and we do see the meter or Persephone one.
You see you see Scholars identify her?
It is both holding snakes poppies.
And wheat and of course poppies aren't going to induce an
experience. Like what we read in The Old
City Mysteries sweating and visions and Terror.
But the to the right of it does look kind of like a vat of right
which way looks like a dull, whether the Vats that they would
brew that wine like we talked about earlier, dolia Yes, look
like that and there's also something called the key stay in
the eleusinian Mysteries which is they at the culmination of
the right? They would open this box.
Take whatever is inside of it out.
And then put it back in and close it.
We don't know what nobody ever revealed, what that was.
So we don't know what was in the key stay but it's supposed to be
part and partial to whatever this mystery is now.
Just because you went through the loc ninh, Mysteries didn't
mean that you knew how to make the Kiki on.
That was the Priestly knowledge and know.
So that was something kept secret.
And the with the women made the clothes, the women made the
Khaki honor of correct. It had to be prepared by a woman
and that's the case. With most of these bruises,
like, with the black, drink with Native, Americans you ever touch
each other? Oh, yeah, what?
Oh, by the way, what was we just did the history of psychedelics
and that was the last one on the table.
The chronological table and I knew it was Native American, but
what is black drink real quick before we can.
It's that y'all pain Holly. So they it's that black tea.
They would drink out of shells. It's loaded with caffeine but it
won't make you vomit like that. Now like I said they drink it
out of these shelves. Well, it's Spiro Oklahoma which
is one of the largest Mississippian cities.
They found hundreds of these shells buried in all of these
different areas. Sean Lambert, recently led a
team that did analysis of these and the residues were positive
for datura. So they were mixing know, the
other alkaloids that they're not as stable as the debtor
alkaloid. So the it's questionable, if
there would even be evidence of things, like, DMT or LSA, still
present in the cups, but the residue for d'etre absolutely
was present. So black drink It looks like the
ilex vomitoria. The y'all pain is a base.
It's the base that's used in all the different blends but
depending on what you want to do with it, you add different
ingredients and there's our there's fantastic scholar named
f--kin trolley the third. He so he says that each of these
different Cups. He's they have different images.
Carved on them different icons and each of these icons,
correspond to different places on the Milky Way which the
Anyway, just like in Egypt is the path called the path of
souls that the dead person has to walk to get to the afterlife.
And there are trials along the way these trials are represented
on these cups. So he proposes that each the cup
determined what was in it, what they were drinking out of it and
that, that there that these were like degrees.
So, you would go through the first degree, excuse me.
And you're basically going through the path of sold
nominally ritually. By drinking the substance that's
meant to propel you into the region where this deity exists,
this they don't call them deities the archaeology,
archaeologists like to call them.
Supernaturals are non-human entities, but he believes that,
it's a different substance for each one.
There's something similar in Spyro, we're in the grand
Mortuary, it's meant to set up. The arch is meant to be the
Milky Way and different Flint clay.
Pipes Stone Effigies of pipes of different.
Non-human entities are placed in this in the order that they
appear in the Milky Way and the same idea is true with this that
smoking through it. A animated, the piece, meaning
it brought the deity and in your presence by smoking, pulling
smoke through it and that there were different smokes for each
one. I think there's probably
something to that. They had very complex systems of
psychedelics. They weren't just using plants,
ethnological reports suggest that when we see them drinking
the Dutch hero, it's always associated with a moth.
This moth deity. They they call it Mothra after
the Godzilla scene, or they call it Mothman after the movie, but
that's what they call this, this figure and this moth has been
identified as what's called a tobacco moth.
Manduca sexta is the scientific classification.
It lays its eggs feeds, only on Tobacco, and datura.
So they Associated directly with these.
Now, nicotine is normally toxic for insects and animals, but for
the horn tobacco hornworm. When it's a centipede, not when
it's a caterpillar, Somehow it doesn't hurt it.
Not only that, it not only does it not kill him when he eats
nicotine, he has the ability to store it in his body and inject
it at will as a defense mechanism.
And there there's an ethnological report where
they're telling a legend about those two twins.
I was telling you about earlier the Sun, God is trying to
determine if they're actually his twins actually his kids and
so Not necessarily the sun. God, the god of the above world
will say. And as a as a test, he tells
them that they have to first. Go find this caterpillar and
they he says, you'll recognize him because he pukes out blue
stuff and he says you each need to take one of these and put it
in your mouth and don't swallow the Jews, but spit it out.
When it happens just like chewing tobacco.
They're letting these caterpillars spit up, naked,
straight, nicotine and their mouths.
And after they pass this test, he says, okay you've passed this
one. Now I'm going to give you the,
the tobacco that kills the tobacco, that kills being the
other plant, that this small fee, it's on the datura, and
they pack a huge pipe of d'etre and smoke it, and it doesn't
kill them. So, he determines these are
definitely my kids. So there's this idea of, if you
can survive, this, your divine I'm in a way but very complex
system of initiation systems of intoxication and the the one of
the pots that tested positive for doctoral.
It's a, it's got a design on it, that shows up in lots of
different places but it wasn't until they figured out that
about this relationship of what this small for was that they
realize the design on the pot is the proboscis of the Moss.
That it uses to drink the nectar from doTERRA or tobacco.
And there's images of chunky players that game.
We were talking about holding these malls, like big ones by
their proboscis, holding it up. Well when when well when a
monarch for example, as a caterpillar it feeds on
milkweed. Milkweed is toxic, it's not
toxic for them. And what it does is it makes
them toxic Two other things. Even by the time it becomes a
butterfly it retains those toxins and its Constitution.
It's possible that those mobs were psychoactive and that they
were maybe eating the malls. We don't know.
But I traveled to Arizona to see the deer glyph, Deer Hunter,
glyphs out there. The design on these mom's is
carved on these rocks. I mean, I'll send you the
pictures so you can see how close this is underneath every
single pictograph at Deer Park, we found growing either datura
or tobacco obtuse a Folia. Now, I thought, what are the
odds of this? I mean, it must be native.
It must just grew all over. So Jamie Paul lamb and I we
walked to the Some 11 acres around this property looking for
a single specimen of either plant, we couldn't find one.
Now I spoke with a botanist I said what are the chances that
these plants were planted there and just grow back every year
and he said, oh that's absolutely possible.
They drop their seeds and they grow in the same places over and
over and over. This is very possible.
They were planted there. Well, I started researching this
and I found an article written by these archaeologists who were
studying a stretch of petroglyphs in New Mexico and
underneath every it's a specific like Jagged tooth looking symbol
the same kind of jagged symbol that shows up on the moth wings
and their depictions in the Southeast they said under every
single Petroglyph like that. They Found d'etre or tobacco.
That I don't think it's a coincidence.
What about? I think we're all this in the
new book. Yeah.
What about just to go back to elusive first second.
This is so this is the plutonian caves found a lusus.
You know, looking at this, I had a psychedelic experience a few
years ago where I was taken back through like history and I was
kind of like a slideshow of like psychedelic interactions.
Deranged people. And I just had this vision of
Play-Doh participating in the greater Mysteries and then
walking over from the Telus Terry onto this plutonium cave
and then coming up with his allegory of the cave.
I don't know why they came to me, but it did and it just kind
of made sense. I don't know, I don't think urea
SLI things that come to you in those States or there's our
epiphanies, you know, it's not to say that.
Every every idea that comes to you in that state is going to be
scientifically verifiable or demonstrably.
But it is saying that there's meaning Meaning in it, you're
finding meaning in it and that's right I think that's more
important than scientific corroboration right and he's got
that famous quote from the phaedo that so yeah, I mean I
just let me see here. I think that's all the cool
pictures I have for that. I mean, I have, we did a whole
ancient psychedelic episode here.
Let's go back. Wheat up by somebody was asking
about that earlier, but let me pull up, I think I had one.
The book I have coming out. Oh yeah.
What do you think about this? The the optical.
Ooh, and you see the other wrist, they have those like
flower looking watch things, and then right, looks like the dude
holding a cola. Now everybody says pine cone but
from talking with like Chris Bennett The tree of life and all
that kind of stuff. It does look like a cannabis
plant. It could be yep.
You know everybody interprets what they're holding is a basket
or a bucket, right? And it would, that might even be
made out of hemp that little that little thing in his hand,
that little II handbag. I'm not certain it's a handbag.
What do you think it is? Look at Pillar 43.
It Gobekli Tepe here, I've got it, hold on.
I'll pull it up at the top of 43.
Are those what? Graham Hancock interprets.
Yeah. The top headlines.
He said things. These are the same handbags, but
at the top left, you can see. There's a hand holding that
edge. And it's holding it.
Down coming out of these as water.
This is rain happening, but they're demonstrating it the
same way. It's represented in my anak and
iconography where they're pouring, like a libation turning
it sideways. I think, in some cases, it's not
a basket. I think it's a handled picture
that they're pouring a libation out from.
And in this case, I think it's meant to indicate rain.
This pillar. This pillar is we find it?
See if it is one of the most m-43 is one of the most
important ones, mainly for the path of souls model.
Because it, it shows Scorpio sickness scorpion that you can't
really see them here but there's a scorpion under that line.
And that's what the most most of the alternative theories on this
is all correlated to some sort of comment or asteroid impact,
like during the younger dries or Ali.
Some sort of astronaut I do a lot of interpret it that way.
Yeah so you can you can really see the hands on this one to
holding those pictures turning them sideways.
Yes, somebody said though those are actually other and little
animals up there tight and I've looked closely, I forget who is
telling me, I can't really remember right now, but they're
saying that there's that's kind of cut off.
You can, if you look very intricately at the top, those
are actually other little animals like a little frog and
something else. I don't know.
There is a frog on there. I think what we're talking about
our hands. You can even see the fingers.
Yeah. I see.
I know what you're talking about, but I do think that
there's little animals up there, too, as well.
There are there animals. Over these things.
Yeah. But this is significant because
in the Native American death Journey that what they call the
path of souls. The soul has two and this is,
this is the main function of these platform Mounds.
They would wait until the right time of year to do these funeral
services. You couldn't do them just any
time because during the summer the Great Snake this giant snake
would snatch. Your soul out of the air and
take you into the underworld, that great snake is Scorpio.
They saw it as a snake and during the winter months,
Scorpio never arises at night, it never rises above the
Horizon. He stays in the Underworld.
So they thought, okay. This is the time to do funerals
because he can't get us so they would wait until the winter
solstice about around the winter solstice and they would face
West and the direction of the sunset and slightly South which
is where O'Reilly Ryan sets, Just Before Sunrise and They
didn't see it as a Ryan. Obviously, that's a Greek idea.
They saw it as what they call the Chiefs hand, or the hand
star. And what we recognize as Orion's
Belt, they saw as the wrist of this hand start.
And in the Palm is at what looks like an eyeball.
And I this is a major aspect of Mississippi and iconography, it
shows up all over the place and it even shows up in the Hopewell
stuff. So it goes back at least to
Hopewell. But the eye and the Palm is
actually not an i it's what they call a noogie or an OG.
Which is dr. Gregory post those a lot.
Those, it's meant to be like a vaginal vesica piscis like an
entry that you go into. Um now we know it's not, it's
it's actually it's a cowrie shell as what's in the hand.
In this cowrie shell is Central to some of these secret
societies and Native Americans like the media we won.
They shoot these calories into themselves and as a to show that
they're an initiate, they hold the cower in the center of their
open palm and show others in what they call the mean, a we
gon their Lodge. But what it is is that it's the
portal that gets you on to the path of Souls.
And we talked about that chunky game where they roll that disc,
and they have to throw the staff at it.
That's true. Name.
They're training them, how to do this.
Because remember, the sky falls at moves, once the sky falls and
Orion goes under, you can get crushed by the falling sky.
So you have to aim just right at the right time of the year and
they literally say you have to shoot your soul like an arrow
into the palm of that hand and that it will carry you through
the underworld safely. That leads you to the Milky Way.
You have to make this sharp, turn to get off the ecliptic and
onto the Milky Way where you travel around.
And once you travel around and come back up through the
ecliptic on the east side, like you're a rock.
Like, you're the sun rising. You get to the top of the sky,
which is where cygnus is, and cygnus for the m, is this, it's
a vulture and Gobekli, Tepe, cygnus is a swan.
On increase for the Native Americans.
It's a falcon but it's this Falcon figure called brain
Smasher. And he lives, right at the fork,
in the Milky Way, the Milky Way has what they call the dark rift
and it's in the direction of Sagittarius that dark rift is is
actually the black hole at the center of our galaxy, but it
causes a an opening to happen. It looks like an opening in the
Milky Way, well that Only one path keeps going.
The other paths. It's a dead end and blocking
that path. Is this is cygnus this vulture.
That means falcon If he judges you favorably, he opens the door
to the long path, and that leads you to the final resting place,
where your ancestors are, if they made it this far.
If he judges you unfavorably and you don't know, you just know
he's opened the road for you. If he does you unfavorable
favorably, he opens a door to the short path and that once you
go that way, you fall back down into the underworld in you
either are lost to Oblivion some traditions say you're reborn
reincarnated that kind of thing but that's that's what we're
seeing. I believe on the Gobekli Tepe
pillar and of course the first thing in any rational person's
mind is What why would you think that?
I mean ones in turkey and the others in North America.
It's because the model is identical for Egypt.
And for Babylon, the Babylonians, there's this great
book by George litter. Rebecca called visible, Gates,
and pagans Skies where he's describing the same exact thing
this portal and Orion that you go through to get on the Milky
Way and then it's in here. This first half of the book is
about Greece. The middle is about Egypt, and
the last half is about Babylon, nobody shows up, I mean, I've
never, I've never read the book you're talking about, but I know
the Egyptians. So that's like, why like Orion
was important or like different constellations, because they
figured when they die, that's where they would meet up in the
afterlife right, wherever their afternoon, Which Constellation,
right into and what time to get into it and then which direction
is to go once you've gotten into it.
Yeah, that's the secret initiatory wisdom of these
Traditions, how to get into the Afterlife.
That was originally the secret of the, of the Pharaohs, you
know? And for the Native Americans,
particularly in the Southeast, it was taught in what they
called medicine. So dalit, he's the me day, we
went or the grand medicine Society, they, they situate
their lodges east to west, but when someone dies Sighs.
They situated north to south so east to west is the ecliptic.
The sunrise, the planets move north to south is how the Milky
Way moves. So, they position their Lodge to
the Milky Way and then and then they, they have to be the
psychopomp. Then the initiated person is the
psychopomp that can guide, the dead person who has not been
initiated into the Afterlife, if they think they're worthy to do
that, but that's the secret. It's the secret wisdom in and
Plato and neoplatonism. If you read, poor free porphyry
wrote this commentary on Homer on the Cave of the nymphs.
It's called, but it's the same thing.
He says this cave, signifies our universe, and there are two
entrances in this cave. One for Mortals, and one for a
mortal's, the one for Mortals is the gate RI come in when we're
born, the one for immortalized. Is is the one we go out when
we've matured enough to this place to leave it.
Once you go out of it, those portals sit on the Milky Way
those that. So if we imagine the, the Zodiac
wheel to be one wheel and we imagine the Milky Way to be
another wheel, the two points at which they intersect are where
those two portals are. That's in Greece, that's in
Egypt, that's in Sumeria. And that's in freaking Native
America. It is a turret and I'm certain.
That's what pillar 43 is about in Turkey.
But it's a, it's overwhelming. I wouldn't even know about this
if it weren't for Greg Little, I mean, oh no.
I love dr. Greg, he's, he's a wealth of
knowledge. Obviously, he's got the book on
Native American Mounds encyclopedia and we just see.
We've had, I've had about like five times probably more than
most guests on our show. He's, he's very generous with
his time. He he turned me on to all this
stuff I had written my book. The book that's going to come up
before the Native American book is on theurgy, theurgy and
theory and practice. Yeah, dude, who have more books
now? All your posts are.
But I read a shitload by the way, I'm like where the hell is
this dude? Getting all these fucking books?
I've never even heard of half of these fucking books.
Its most of them are specialized tax that cost between 100 and
250 dollars. Its reality crazy.
Once once you get into this tier of literature, you're going to
go broke a promise. It's very hard.
I mean, now I've gotten to the point where, if I want to keep
going, I have to sell the books. I have.
Yeah, I see just to if anybody's interested follow PD on
Instagram or Facebook or whatever, he's always posted
books that he's trying to sell to get new books and further his
research. So yep.
Yep. Greg he I had read his book yet
the book I wrote on theurgy, theurgy.
This platonic system of ritual. That's designed to get your soul
into the regions, where the Pharaoh could get basically.
But out of all of the platonic and neoplatonic text, they
never, it's never Spilled Out. What the ritual is, what is this
theoretical ritual? It's right of elevation, they
call it. And I finally found one
description. It's and it and it it was in a
recently published translation of pro classes comment.
Terry on Plato's Republic and in it, he spells out the ritual and
that ritual is a funeral. He says that if we take the
funeral that that Achilles gives for patrol coalesce in Homer and
do that to a living person, that's theurgy and it's about
the same thing. It's about Getting these these
portals. This it's a ritual way to do.
What porphyry was describing. Excuse me about those chains.
Looking for portals. We got to hook this guy up the
portals there. So one, Greek author says, there
are three portals, most of them. Say there are two, the portals
exist and the signs of Taurus and Scorpio.
That's where the Milky Way touches on each side and those
signs now porphyry. He's Hellenistic his so he's
using tropical astrology meeting.
He doesn't care where the planets are out there.
It's always based at 0 degrees, Aries is on March, 20 on the
Spring Equinox. It doesn't move unlike sidereal
astrology which takes into account, the precession of the
equinoxes. The fact that every few hundred
years, it moves over a degree most backwards.
So He he puts this the, the gates and Cancer and Leo and
cause them, not excuse me, cancer and Capricorn, and calls
them, the gates of the sun, ask you, the Gate of the moon and
the Gate of Saturn, the moon rules cancer, Saturn rules rules
Capricorn, he's placed them there because 100%, because he's
a helenus and he doesn't care where they actually are every
other text says. No, it's not there ones and
Taurus ones in, Scorpio the to Rebecca shows, different
cylinders carved with the Scorpion, God's guarding one
gate and bull guards guarding, the other gate, and they lead to
this giant serpent that you have to get along that serpent is the
Milky Way. It's been this giant.
Serpent is represented in both some Egyptian imagery and in
Babylonian, as The Milky Way. So that's the portals.
The two portals one leads to remember the the split and the
Milky Way. Where the, where the yeah black
hole really is? Yeah, that's one portal.
You go. That way.
You don't come back. That's the road.
That is the dead end. You ain't getting nowhere.
If you go that way, the other portal is in the palm of that
hand. And and in the side of Orion,
this is the constellation of Orion, which is against the sign
of Taurus. There's something that I want to
show you here. Well, first off, here's that
image. Let me pull this up here, so
it's not my ugly mug over it. I can't.
So here you have on the left. You have blue lotus and then on
the right, you have the mushrooms.
That's what we were talking about earlier when we were
talking about, right? Temple of hathor and Hooter
Hunter graph. He wrote a great book recently
on Herman The Hermit ISM. If you get a chance to read it,
but he did a lecture for Harvard Divinity School.
When they were going through, you know, different spiritual
practices within the engines, and he focused on the mithras
Liturgy out of the Greek magical.
Papyri, I have a copy of here. I'll show you these.
Can everybody see this? so, the Greek magical papyri
this is One of the few surviving Egyptian spell books and it is
is something called the mithras Liturgy.
This is it extracted with alone commentaries.
That picture, was that a Scarab with horses face on it?
Yeah, yeah. That's so the Scarab is, he's
who moves the sun through underworld, like a dung beetle,
right roles it. But in The Matrix liturgy, it's
in. It's a ritual of a cent where
this woman comes through this, this priest figure and kind of,
like, as also most via Sophia Sophia Sabia situation, and he
gives gives her this ritual. That's called a ritual of a
pothana t cymose, which means immortalization.
Now, it's interesting because by immortalization.
They don't mean you're going to be immortal forever after you do
it. I mean when it's happening,
you're Immortal, you're in the place of the Gods and she just
sins and she's able to open the doors of heaven and see into the
doors of Heaven. Just the same way Parmenides
does with the giant doors, but it's the Underworld for him.
But in it, there's a scarab beetle that is added to an oil
along with a plant. We don't know what this plant is
Kendra rytas. Some people interpreted as
cannabis it's Bribed in the commentary here as having red
Roots, which with the acacia stuff, very significant, but
Hannah graph interprets, this scare of as code for something
else, possibly a mushroom, because they put it in the soil.
And then they take the oil and anoint the face.
And it's after this that she's able to ascend just like a
flying ointment. We see the the same thing in the
the earliest Christian rituals, you know, when the Christians
started they were a secret society.
We don't know what they were doing.
The first time it was revealed what they were doing was when
this anti-christian guy, Kelsey's wrote this book against
the Christians in it. He says what they do is they get
together and they anoint themselves and this what he
calls the white unguent of the Tree of Life.
And after they do this, they're able to leave their body and
Ascend through the levels of heaven.
So we know like all the stuff really are Aeneas all that kind
of stuff. That's how we know about like
gnosticism. It's all the opposition.
It's never we never have the actual down.
This is just Christian, right? He didn't say this is Gnostic,
this is Christian that would origin comes along.
Clement student here. Abuts this right.
So long rebuttal saying he's, you know, No, he's wrong.
These aren't Christians. These people are what we call
ophites their. Oh, fight gnostics, but when he
starts telling what's wrong with it, he doesn't say that they
don't do the ritual. He doesn't say that they don't
anoint themselves in the soil and Ascend to Heaven.
What he says is there, there Heavens are out of order.
He's mad because they're Heavens are in the wrong order which is
Again part of the secret wisdom like hat.
What? It actually looks like when you
get out there. Where to go, when you die.
So he almost corroborates the claim but he just combats the
particulars. The but generally, it looks like
the early Christians were doing the same thing.
There's another Christian Gnostic texts called The Book Of
Joy or the book of Jude j EU in it.
They have these series of baptisms where they place a
plant in their mouth while they're being, baptized the name
of this plant. See, no, cephalon me.
Ins dog-headed. It's anybody's.
Guess what that is it could be. That could mean Anubis you know
take you to the underworld psychopomp kind of thing.
I don't know but that's what they call the plant.
The only other time this plant shows up and literature is in
plenty of the Elder where he's saying it was used at one time
for necromancy and the soul of Homer was called from the
underworld using it during a ritual.
Strange stuff. But this, it looks like this
kind of thing is that the route like you said at the beginning,
like, it doesn't have to be psychedelics, but a Visionary
experience is at the beginning of every religion, it takes that
State of Consciousness for the, for the myth to thrust itself
upon you, like to see it firsthand and Know that that
must be true. The way I said that earlier.
Not guess or say Well it wouldn't be, wouldn't it be cool
if yeah. No absolutely.
Let's start to kind of wrap it up here.
Do you have you want to do like a like a 10 minute short patreon
on Saint Peter snow-clad dealership?
I did read that paper. You sent me so it starts right?
Yeah let's wrap it up here and then we'll do that.
We'll do a short patreon all upload it.
It later on. But I wanted to pull up.
One thing I found here, I was doing an episode on Easter
Island, you know, the different Cults.
The Motto motto of the Birdman called and the moai Builder
called. And I came across, you know,
there's a lot of like I obviously like psychedelic
iconography. Do you know anything about this
Acacia? Kevin.
This is new to me. Okay, so this is for this.
Is actually a tree found on Easter Island, its acacia tree,
we know that there's pre-columbian, South American
DNA found within, you know, the Rapa Nui.
People have that. So there's people going back and
forth. There's Polynesian people going
to Easter Island. Then you have also, people
coming probably from South America to Easter Island.
And even there's a Yahoo, which is the altar that the moai stand
on. There is Allah who that looks
exactly. Like some of the megalithic.
Thick stones from sex a woman and South America.
So, anyway, doesn't know Easter Island is off.
It's part of Chile. Now, like it's part of the
country of Chile, but it's off. That's like, it's one of the
most remote places on Earth. But, yeah, it's by like the
Marquesas islands, all that kind of stuff.
I'll definitely look into the, yeah.
So I wanted to pull this up. This is the slide from the
Easter Island episode. I did it because they What
happens is, there's these long years versus the short years
than the mythology, which signifies to anthropologists and
ethnographers, like Thor heyerdahl.
I don't know if, you know that is that it might have been the
South American people going against the Polynesian people.
And then later on, you have like cannibalism found on the island
and stuff like that. But so, obviously these people,
you know, what were they doing? What was all this stuff
happening? And I think that one of them,
you know you found they found that shamanic FOX NOW pouch and
Bolivia 1000 ad. Again we know the connections
between South America and Easter Island as well as it had.
It had yopo in it and which is yopo comes from an ad in in
therapy peregrina or call. Yeah.
So that's why I'm going to ask you to is like, that's an acacia
basically, right? I was going to ask you and
áanotherá. Obviously, a lot of Native
American tribes use it, that's part of like, you know, you can
make snuff out of it, would you get the same kind of effects
that you would get from like, smoking DMT?
Or is that not anywhere near that?
Oh, they so in South America, they found what they call
smoking tubes, which is basically a Chillum that shows
evidence of smoking and at Anantara seeds going way back.
Have you ever smoked yopo seeds? No, I still haven't even smoked
DMT, okay. Yo, put so yopo seeds are
absolutely active by themselves. You take the seeds and you gotta
if you heat them up in a skillet, that's how we did it
and they'll swell up. They'll get kind of fat.
Once they get fat like that, take them off the heat because
that the thing you can Hamilton Morris than episode, we went to
Argentina. That's the he did it with the
legit Shaman. That guy, he met.
Went out of all the episodes, Hamilton's done and meets these
people that claim to be this certain kind of thing.
That guy was the most legitimate Shaman of ever seen.
But he didn't have a real experience.
But who's the guy that they were talking about that wrote the
book on doing that, that lived with like those tribes for a
while? I forget, two dudes named.
I'm not, if it's not schulte's, I'm not sure.
It's that schulte's. And he's a more newer.
He's a little bit older but he's this was really bugging me.
Like, I didn't, I forgot to look.
His name. After last episode, he wrote a
book on the snuff and bufo, bufo bufo 13 is that Jesus would
pronounce it bouffant in the botany.
Yes, he wrote a book on the seeds and the snuff guy's name.
He's kind of like a recluse with the Psychedelic Community but
very revered and I forget his name Brett, who wretch Christian
Ranch? No, not Christian reg.
This dudes like a big name dude, I'm telling you you would If
pissing me off, I know what you're talking about and that
episode is is is is available. I think you can watch it in full
on YouTube. Yeah, many viewers want to
explore that, but it's a there's a very legitimate Shaman there.
But he creates a snuff out of it, I've never snuffed it, but
we would heat the seeds up and peel the outside.
Side off. They're covered in this brown
film and you can just smoke those seeds and you are
overwhelmed with every river done and I've had to lay down.
That's how strong it is. It's how potent it is.
You can just smoke it and get a DMT Flash.
Yeah, that's that's crazy. And that was used within, I know
some indigenous, Mexican tribes use the and áanotherá.
What about any of the American, the jewelry and the jewelry
province of Argentina evidence shows that it's been used for
4,000 years and whenever a sign and a lot of people don't know
this. Christopher Columbus was the
first person to document yopo use Yeah.
Wasn't his one of his priests or somebody on his team, they watch
them using it and described it and later a Von Humboldt the
Explorer went to the same region to try and find the the plant he
found it and called it Acacia Neo Pony Oppo after yopo.
So it was originally classified as an acacia and I think that's
one, one of the places that the Royal Society got that
information about The Acacia and there are Search for drugs
because one of their concerns was cartography and they had
Columbus's maps and a bunch of maps that and the other source
is probably the heart, lib papers heart, heart lived had a
circle of Alchemists. It's surrounded him but he
interpreted paracelsus has azoth as Acacia.
He basically switches out azoth for Acacia and quotes paracelsus
to it tea. shout out to Dean McGrath for bringing that to my
attention and that those papers were in the possession of the
Royal Society to Yeah, I think that Hamilton's do that.
Do they call it Hitachi or hi? Tha, that h8 e AJ.
Is that the one that's beyond my knowledge there.
Now, that was the one I think for the episode from Argentina
where they were doing the snuff, I think that's what they call
it, you know, I don't think Pinna and yopo or the yeah names
that I'm familiar with But yeah, I mean this all this stuff again
there's just so many connections to all this stuff and I know
we're like super nerds and nobody really gives a shit the
real world. Right?
Like nobody gives a shit about this.
But I mean, we're talking about the Royal Society on a rat rabid
Scramble for drugs and and we're the only one that's fucking
cares. Yeah.
I mean it's that it's the idea of all of our ideas of
metaphysical things and it's not to say that they don't exist.
But I think it's important. It's like, if you're going to be
in a religion, don't you think it's important?
You understand where that like religion comes from or those
ideas behind your philosophies, or spirituality come from?
You know, like it's just stuff like that where it's it just
makes me wonder. Yeah, it just makes me wonder, I
don't know, Rona. Let's say this one.
I give lectures and Masonic lodges because there's you know,
there's there's a lot of Mason's it don't like what I'm saying.
But its history. And when he laid out and just do
the show, cite your sources and show how this happened.
I mean, we should be big boys and be able to say, oh well,
that's that's interesting. You know, that this the the the
tendency to cover up or hide information that's embarrassing
or that you didn't expect we gotta get over that stuff.
You know, we got so much history that we were.
Just starting to scratch the surface on on what took place.
The next step is to, you know, accept it.
So what what are your two book? Can you tell us what your two
books are coming up here? What they're about?
Yeah, so the book that will come out first, I don't have dates on
any of them yet but they're both coming out with inner Traditions
Bearing Company. The first one is on the air G
and theory and practice and it looks at the neo-platonist
themselves they had this tendency when they talked about
theurgy to talk about it in homeric terms and so So what the
book does is it unpacks those homeric references, there's
claim, Theo platonic claims that homeric theurgy and takes them
at their word. And, and I'm trying to say,
let's let's see what they mean by this and in doing that I
can't I mean I came to after reading book after book after
book on theurgy and he'll platonism, I came to the the
conclusion that This is the only way to understand theurgy is to
take them at their word and go back and look at what Homer is
saying. So that's what the book does.
And The second book the title for it is tripping, the path of
souls Native American Shamanism, and the Mississippi Valley.
And it looks at what we've been talking about these Botanical,
assemblages that were recovered, how they use them, and this path
of souls model as steps along the afterlife, and then it looks
at the, my Miss Alaska hypothesis, which I think is a
very Important. If that's true then we have to
re-evaluate everything and I think it is true but the the
notion that then an Ayahuasca analog was being used in North
America by Native Americans native North Americans.
It's a game changer and and I'm really I'm not, I'm nervous
about this book. I've never been nervous about
even with the my DMT and masonry books, I wasn't nervous about
them. I had Jonathan Oz.
That's the dude. Sorry.
I just had a thought. Yeah, Jonathan, that's right.
That's who I was trying to think of that's that's that's
brilliant. Sorry.
No, it's fine. I'm glad you remembered because
I could remember either. Yeah, supposedly.
He's like a master at the The bufo bufo Janine, bouffant need,
excuse me before that need ceremonies with the and
áanotherá seeds and all that stuff.
So right he wrote a whole book on it, I think so.
Yeah, I didn't know that. I don't have that book.
I have most of the books. I have our Aunt with other
authors. See ya, dude.
I'm pumped, I love your work. I love dr.
Gregory stuff. I'm glad you guys are Consulting
and I select this. I can't not.
Yeah, yeah, so close. He's in her documentary as
within. So, without from UFOs to DMT,
I'll play the trailer at the end.
I asked PD to be in and we had some technical difficulties.
So he's going to, I'm going to have PD, write a little
something that will fit in the As well too.
So you can be a part of it. I'm glad to be a let's wrap it
up here and do a short patreon. Anybody can just go check out
PD's books, I'll chemically Stone and angels and Vermillion.
I have the links down below. I have the link to his Facebook
group. He is on Twitter, I believe,
what's your Twitter handle? It's PD or PID.
Underscore D, something like that.
I think. That's right.
P underscored the, something like that.
I'll add it all at the link at the thing.
But, yeah, file. So terrible, what do you should
use Twitter more? I think it's more psychedelic
friendly than any of the other em.
So yeah, there's a nice sucks. Psychedelic Community kick in
anytime I have posts. Yeah, you've got like lots of
people prevalent on there. You know, you've got your
andrew.galea Moors and people that are, you know, interacting
with people on there on a regular basis and stuff.
So I mean, I like it the best out of all of them, but I think
it would be. It's right up your alley for
what you're doing to. So do that.
Yep, let's see here. Yeah, so just follow PD on all
the stuff by his books. If you haven't already, shout
out to everybody that's been in the chat screen name.
I know PD, your Danny. Your brother is in there for a
while Kar to my eBay. It's, I don't know, I think
that's how you pronounce it, OE, B, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I
wouldn't know half the things I know if it wasn't for Michael,
he was my Partner in crime and he was my he's my younger
brother. 14 months younger than me.
So obviously he was my guinea pig for a lot of drugs and he
was the first one to do Salvia. You know.
I would give it to him and watch how he acted then I'd take it.
Have you ever masticated the leaves?
Or if you only just smoked it, I've only smoked it.
But I do have. So I was sitting back from
Australia with a psychedelic, a psychoactive meant that I don't
they call it a sage but he my host Khalil drink some of it and
he said that he got a entered, a very heady space.
It's not Salvia divinorum, but it's some kind of a something.
They're calling a Salvia that's in the mint family.
And it's psychoactive, that's weird that you say that I was
just going back and forth with Sandy who's a friend of the
show. She's been a guest as well and
that's her that's why she thinks she used just came back from a
loose Isis. Actually, she has tons of
pictures of her trip but she's talking about how the mint
that's on the ingredients list. She's talking the safety rules.
Yes. But she's saying that she thinks
that there could have been a strain or something, the kind of
like what you're saying right now, that something in the mint
family or Sage that has solved via like properties.
It's definitely possible. They're there.
So the ancient Greece they mention a psychoactive IV.
That we no longer have an IV. You can get Own.
They mentioned celery, a type of celery, you could get high on.
There's a great video Even though wild lettuce, can get you
to work. Well, yeah.
So there's a lots of different strains of wild lettuce, but the
one we get here, it's, they call it opium lettuce.
I'm trying to think of the lek. Touka virosa is the species, but
it contains high ask, I mean, which is also in d'etre and
black Nightshade. So it's in that family.
Do you like control? I paint.
I'm not a tropane guy. I just was nothing for me.
Yeah, I prefer to take them in comments.
Okay, this point is I'm having trouble.
There we go. You can see it.
Yeah, you I prefer it on the Comedown of other substances.
If I'm coming down from LSD or something, I'll put it on my
wrist, the back of my neck. But if you get enough of it to
have what we would call a real real psychedelic experience from
it, it's not pleasant, you know, you you get severe dry mouth.
If it's still one of them but like mix in with ayahuasca,
Brutal ends Brigade. See, AA room and see ya Mencia,
Aria Bergman there's several strange.
I heard those I Wasco. Like I've had a couple people on
the shoulder like dude, that's not something I would try again.
It's like bubble level Ayahuasca shit there.
I've had I've had it one time and I had a rough rough
experience with it. They call it toe a like put.
They'll just put, like, one flower or a couple of leaves.
And a whole batch and it completely changes it.
Well and this is for Erica, adding biologically not as safe
obviously is like tryptamines and stuff.
So right there, they will kill you if you take too much.
But that being said, they're, you know, we think about
hallucinogens is being tryptamines or arga teens,
right? And engines, for example, is
right, that that, which generates the God within we
think of, as those kinds of drugs, there's more evidence
It's that tropane plants were used as entheogen.
'S then any of the other ones? I mean, we know they were using
that stuff. But the problem is, you know,
half the time, you don't remember it, you have complete
Amnesia and regard to the experience.
If you eat enough, it can last up to, there's a report of one
of the first reports in America of of Soul, Spanish soldiers,
eating it and and he was intoxicated 411.
Days. So, that's scary too crazy.
Yeah, but my got three kids but two of them are grown.
What I got? Ya little kid.
You know, yeah, that I can't even imagine doing something
like that. Sounds like that persisting.
What's it called? HP p d-- uh, PPD.
But yeah, let's wrap it up here. Again, check out all of PD's
links. Follow me on social media buys
books, if you haven't already check, you know, also stay
tuned, he's obviously A couple books coming out here and we'll
have him back on. I mean he's welcome on any time.
You can come on as much or as little as you want.
So we definitely have you back on.
I know actually I was talking with Alec.
Maybe we can do one with both you and Alec to.
I think that would be kind of cool.
Oh yeah. That'd be fun Alec and I go way
back. But yeah, this was awesome.
There's obviously a million things that we didn't get to
that. We probably could have talked
about to so but yeah, we'll do a patriotism.
Yeah, st. Peter snow.
And yeah, love nerding out with You and I know a lot of our fans
who are well, read into these subjects, really appreciate you
and your research and a lot of great.
Yeah, look, I think that when people do their homework and
their research, the passion really comes through and I think
that's what people respond to through use like, you're not
just nerding out about this stuff, too like you know you're
not out there making millions and millions of dollars.
You're actually out there for this quest for this other thing.
And I think that that obviously is rare that again when people
do that. It's true and it's it's
passionate I think people really respond to that.
So, yeah. Well I appreciate it.
That's I have I have a lot of gratitude for all my fans and
readers. Awesome man, anything you want
to ask Shane? Before we wrap it up here, I
appreciate you coming. Like I said, a lot of this is me
learning and you answered a lot of my questions to some the
stuff that's pertinent to me. So thank you very much.
I just wanted to also, say you guys for watching, check this
out, check out one. A warrior.
They saved my life. I donate if you can.
I appreciate that. So, thank you very much.
Absolutely. Thank you, pleasure to meet you
pleasure to meet you. Thank you Shan for the super
chats. This guy's single-handedly
funding these episodes. No, but seriously, dude.
Love you appreciate. And I love when you come on,
shout out to like I said, everybody chat, K re B renamed.
Light Hammer, Michael steed. Let's see here.
Who else do we get it here? Earlier, Leah was in there for a
while, Alec, Alex Trent, Bob Marley.
I think it's the real Bob Marley.
I'm going to be honest, I don't know for a fact but I heard I
heard I heard we big engine, I heard we definitely called upon
the spirit through this the spirit of this conversation.
So but yeah that's it. We're gonna Wrap it up here.
We're going to do a short patreon segment with PDL upload
that probably later tonight or tomorrow.
And yeah, I just really appreciate what he's doing.
We do have to past episodes with them.
If you want to continue the listening Pleasures, we did one
on alchemically stoned and more recently.
We did on one on angels and Vermillion, which I'll also add
those links to the thing. If you want to support mind
Escape, all you have to do is click the link tree, link down
below. We do have a merch store which I
have Some psychedelic experience inspired, you know, designs in
there, some ancient, you know, knowledge type ones.
Just some really interesting ones in general.
So check that out. I also, yeah, if you want to
support the show, the best way to do, it's honestly just
leaving us a nice review on Spotify or apple or subscribing
to our YouTube channel and liking it.
We do all of our episodes live on YouTube and we are also on
all audio platforms including video episodes on.
If I and yeah, our documentary as within.
So, without from UFOs to DMT premieres, March 10 through 12
at the Roswell, UFO Expo, Shane, and Toby.
And I will all be speaking there as well as you can.
Check out our other podcasts, they do is chain.
It's called the Roswell UFO Symposium.
Maybe we can get PD on there and talk, straight straight UFOs.
That would be kind of fun. I think it's good that was,
don't forget, I'm also on witnessed Military Witnesses.
UAP my third podcast. So check that one out as well.
Check Shane out on there and actually we just interviewed
James Fox who directed and made the phenomenon.
If you've ever seen that UFO documentary.
I think it's the best one out there.
He just recently came out with a new one called moment of contact
on the Virginia, Brazilian case. So yeah, that's it.
I'm going to play the documentary trailer on the way
out and we love everybody. D, stay safe out there and we'll
catch you next time. Peace, thanks guys.
Is it real? Or is it not?
That's what you're asking me. I still to this day.
Can't find any rational explanation for what I saw
extremely intelligent. Highly Advanced hyper
technological. Be, I think that we just don't
look at the perception of reality in the right way, yet to
go very close to the point that I can see just one big light and
then it stopped and then it shot up in the sky, you know, you
know, you're not dreaming but you wonder how real any of it
really is. It dawned on me it was real.
This this took place but then I still didn't do anything with
it. Never said anything.
Anyway, there is some mind-altering aspect to these
UFO encounters. A lot of people get a sense of
missing. Time, I noticed that these three
stars were kind of in a formation.
It was a triangular formation condensed into entities or
beings that you interact with who are sentient.
The chemicals which are going into our brain are making the
unconscious archetypes cover, like how things evolve from pure
energy to matter. Definitely was kind of a
paradigm shifting moment. As we continue to evolve in our
own Consciousness, we will perceive of new modes of
interpretation, but that may be dependent upon how this supposed
phenomenon reveals itself to us, and sure why we discredit The
Human Experience. When it's not in alignment with
our current belief system, it's important to consider that one.
We don't really understand what I'm Mine's do under the
influence of psychedelics. They all attached to the reality
of some other realm. Call it the Paranormal, doesn't
matter what you call it, spiritual realm, Supernatural,
metaphysical, doesn't matter. The fact that we're essentially
vibrates and energy in a sentence and the when this
experience is over, the, that particular energy transforms and
doesn't die, because it can't die.
Fills me with. A lot of comfort that there is
something else after this so-called Here and Now, They
show you how much of your reality is subjective and
fragile and capable of being influenced by a psychedelic
drug. It's only from a scientific
background. You come up with some Asian is
that range from geomagnetic to Atmosphere to something that's
physical in nature. There's a lot more out there
that we don't know than we do know.
So the entire system the human body is effectively a
stimulation response machine, I think something's here, I don't
know what it is. I don't know where it's from.
It could be extraterrestrials Tell it made a full rotation and
then it just hit an insane speed and just shot up straight into
the atmosphere. I think that there's compelling
evidence that psychedelics have played a significant role in
human evolution over a long period of time.
The owl view of reality. The reality we experience on a
day-to-day basis seems to be this very, very thin slice of a
something far, larger is, and far more
as within. So, without From UFOs to DMT.