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Welcome back to Mike and 
Maurice's might Escape. 

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Let us help you escape your 
mind. 

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All right, folks. 
Welcome back to Mike and 

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Maurice's mind, Escape. 
We have episode number 275 

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tonight. 
This is going to be the first 

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part of an ongoing series that 
we're going to do. 

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We are going to call it 
psychedelic, gnosis with 

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encyclopédie Newman, is it 
encyclopedia encyclopedia 

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something like that? 
With our buddy PD Newman and 

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also Joan? 
Co-host, Leah's back. 

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You can check out PD stuff down 
below. 

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At the bottom, I have all of his
links to his books, his Facebook

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group, and all that kind of 
wonderful stuff. 

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He has a new book coming out 
called theurgy in practice. 

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Correct, drg theory and practice
theory, theurgy theory and 

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practice. 
It's a real tongue twister, and 

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that'll be out through inner 
Traditions. 

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Shout out to Inner traditions, 
we love inner traditions. 

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And yeah, it's going to be 
looking forward to that. 

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When, I know, he's been reading 
up on it, I see him reading on 

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all the ancient, Greek, stuff, 
and Rome and stuff. 

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And I think you're probably 
going to have a real good real 

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good take. 
So I look forward to that, check

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out Leah stuff as well. 
I have her website down below. 

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She does a YouTube channel 
called The Invisible night 

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school where they talk about the
UFO phenomenon as well as other 

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things. 
And she's got a great sub stack,

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check that out and You know, 
we're mind Escape. 

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So we've got tons of other stuff
going on, but you can check out 

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all of our links down below. 
I'm not going to go too deep 

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into it. 
We do have a patreon episode 

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that we released with PD. 
He was actually on only two 

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episodes ago. 
Our last episode we did with dr.

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Andrew Gallimore. 
Great. 

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Episode and DMT and DMT entities
and the mechanisms behind. 

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How these things work? 
What we know. 

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But yeah, so let's get to it 
again. 

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If you want to support any one 
of the things that, We do, you 

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can click on the link down below
at the end of the episode, I 

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will be playing the trailer to 
our documentary that gets 

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released March 10th through 
12th. 

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The Roswell, UFO Expo, shout out
to Toby, shout out to Shane. 

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Shout out to Maurice, who's 
diligently editing this 

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documentary for us right now. 
So, again, all the links are 

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down below. 
We love everybody, let's get 

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this thing rocking. 
So, I asked you what you wanted 

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to talk about for the first 
episode or first installment of 

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this and use Said Native 
American psychedelic use for 

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entheogens. 
Maybe New World antigen 

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something along those lines. 
What what has you most 

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fascinated about that aspect of 
psychedelics? 

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Or at least right now? 
What you're studying? 

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Well, primarily, when most 
people think about Native 

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American entheogen use, they 
immediately go to peyote, the 

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probably the most visual excuse 
me, visible example, but and I 

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had no idea outside of peyote 
and tobacco that there were 

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other examples. 
But once I started digging in, 

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it was actually at in Yorkshire,
I was talking about my theurgy 

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book and I was talking about the
fact that in there, the theory 

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of theology, there are these two
portals in the sky one through 

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which you incarnate and one 
through its you x-coordinate. 

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And Graham Hancock and Dennis 
McKenna weren't in the 

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conversation, but they overheard
me and both of them turned 

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around at the same time. 
And they said, oh are you 

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talking about the path of Souls 
and I was sad. 

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I don't know what that is. 
And they told me to check out 

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Greg's book Greg, Littles book 
path of Souls and I was 

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absolutely floored by the 
similarities. 

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The fact that they virtually 
every step in this process. 

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Is represented in this Native 
American model, but the only 

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difference was that in this, 
theurgy model there are very 

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clear examples of entheogen, use
to induce these death States 

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while you're alive at the, the 
What's called the right of 

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elevation, the major Central 
ritual of theurgy is a death 

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ritual where you died and your 
resurrected afterwards and 

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during that death, you travel 
through this portal and go get 

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on the Milky Way. 
Way. 

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And that's exactly what we were 
seeing in this Native American 

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model. 
So I thought, well, if it's not 

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just a death journey in Greece, 
if it's an initiatory process 

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meant to put somebody through 
death, nominally in a ritual 

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setting is that the case with 
the Native American model? 

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Are they using this after death 
model for some? 

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Some kind of a ritual eyes. 
Setting to put a Person through 

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a ceremony. 
And once I started digging at, 

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that's absolutely the case. 
And the entheogens that they 

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were using that they were 
mastering Absolutely blew my 

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mind because it's it includes 
datura. 

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It includes morning, glory 
seeds, which is a erga teen 

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mimics LSD, but not quite as 
potent, similar to LSD. 

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They were using Nicotiana, 
Rustica obviously, a very strong

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tobacco, but the most surprising
and this isn't in the 

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literature. 
You won't find anybody saying 

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they were using these. 
These other plants, but I found 

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evidence that they were using 
and Ayahuasca analog for those 

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of you who aren't familiar with 
Ayahuasca, it's a South American

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tea made with plants containing 
both DMT and some Form of a 

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monoamine, oxidase inhibitor, 
like harming or are Moline to 

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induce something. 
Very similar to mushrooms. 

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Mushrooms, psilocybin is for 
phosphorus lock CNN DMT. 

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So it's Nature's orally active 
form of DMT. 

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That doesn't necessitate that 
MAOI addition but they're using 

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this MAOI addition. 
So, When I started looking at 

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the Native American usage, I'm 
trying. 

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I'm trying to find all the 
plants they're using, so I ended

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up contacting the local 
University here and I lied to 

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them. 
I told them I was a doctor of 

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archaeology and that I was 
traveling through and that I 

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wanted to use their Professor 
Newman. 

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I presume I want this. 
You can add a monocle onto. 

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Yeah. 
Yeah. 

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But I just said, you know, I'm 
traveling through, I'd love to 

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stop and take a look mainly 
because of this mound called Owl

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Creek Mound, that is in, the 
Mounds are positioned in the 

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exact places as the, what they 
call the Chiefs hand, what we 

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recognize as Orion, but they, 
they're in the position of Orion

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and the lady who had excavated 
it. 

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She's passed away now, but I 
found out that she was with 

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this. 
School. 

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So I'm trying to find her papers
specifically. 

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But once I got to digging in 
there, I found several 

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unpublished feces doctoral 
Theses that discussed Botanical,

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assemblages that were recovered 
from these sites. 

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So they, they gave a complete 
list of all of these different 

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plants they were using now, 
they're obviously separated into

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categories, like food. 
Stuffs, you know, things for 

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textiles for building. 
But then there's this this x 

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category of drugs and that 
includes these other note. 

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Since I've started digging into 
this, I found published examples

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that I can actually cite at 
least five or six different 

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reports on Botanical 
assemblages, all of them have 

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the same plants in them. 
The main thing we We see is the 

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nicotiana Rustica. 
Then we see the the Morning 

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Glory the datura, something 
called ilex vomitoria, which is 

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North America's only native 
source of caffeine. 

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It's a lot like yerba mate. 
It's, I think it's in the same 

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family as yerba mate. 
But what surprised me was report

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after report after report 
included, glad I did see a tree 

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acanthus and passiflora 
incarnata. 

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And this is what I call my 
missus swastika hypothesis. 

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It's a major part of the book 
I'm writing right now. 

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The inner Traditions is also 
picked up but the book isn't 

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finished. 
So I don't know when it will be 

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published, but I remember as 
soon as I saw the good did see a

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tree, can't those I thought 
Where do where do I know this 

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from? 
Why do I know that name and 

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that? 
And it dawned on me a couple of 

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days later it's in Trout's book 
tryouts, he wrote a book called 

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some simple tryptamines, where 
he bioassay did a number of 

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different plants that were in 
The Acacia and Mimosa family to 

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try and determine if they were 
psychoactive like Mimosa 

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hostilities or like like Acacia 
melodica. 

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And this plan in particular, 
Before it was classified as 

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Glenn did see, a tree can't, 
those was called, Acacia 

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Americana and actually the tree 
acanthosis that I can is the 

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same root as Acacia. 
Acacia means thorned and these 

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things are covered in gnarly 
Thorns but That's where it's and

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it's the only source. 
I think there's there are no 

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academic sources that talk about
the DMT content of this tree, 

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only trowel. 
So shout out to Trout for being 

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the the Trailblazer and in this 
regard. 

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But and every report there's 
glad that see a tree account 

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those and right next to it is 
passiflora incarnata passion 

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flower, which is not every 
passion flower has monoamine, 

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oxidase Inhibitors in it but The
ones that grow here, the in 

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Karnataka species. 
Do they have harming in them? 

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And we put it to the test. 
We took a small amount first and

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definitely notice something. 
So then we upped the dose we 

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eventually found out that 
roughly 10 grams of glue. 

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Did see a tree account those 
with 25 grams of the passiflora 

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incarnata is enough to elicit an
experience that I can't 

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distinguish from Ayahuasca and 
it's in all of these Length 

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assemblages. 
So you did though. 

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You tried this this combination?
Yeah, yes, yes. 

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I mean, every everything I write
about, I try it because I want 

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to make sure I want to 
understand like right now, I'm 

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working on the chapter on. 
That's good to know. 

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You're not sitting back like 
that. 

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Let's see what happens when they
try this. 

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Yeah. 
I'm like the housing housing. 

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He was a medical doctor, but he 
wouldn't give it any of his 

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patients, a drug, unless he had 
taken it him. 

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Self. 
So I kind of I'm inspired by 

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haldane to say, well, if you 
want to talk about it you need 

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to be sure what you're talking 
about. 

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And it absolutely is entheogenic
and if those plants were found 

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alone, I probably wouldn't bat 
an eye at it because you could 

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argue that the good that see a 
tree. 

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Can't those was being used for 
firewood or for building. 

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Even though they didn't build 
with it they tended to build 

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with cedar because Cedar, was 
there this the sacred tree to 

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them? 
But the good did see a tree. 

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Can't those shows up in all 
these potential assemblages next

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to passion flower but like I 
said, I wouldn't bat an eye at 

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those if it weren't for the fact
that they're listed alongside 

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things like black Nightshade 
datura and morning glory seeds. 

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So once I started really 
unpacking this, this stuff and 

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reading everything I could find.
I finally stumbled upon a report

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by a woman named Judith night 
who's also So passed away on the

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reverence for this moth, this 
particular moth species, that 

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shows up in all of this 
different Mississippian, heart, 

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it shows up in Moundville. 
It even shows up in Southwestern

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art, in the Zuni art and bowls 
from. 

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Where does that mound called 
Pottery Mound? 

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I think it's called, but this 
moth was identified by and 

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Entomologist as men dukkha 
sexta, which is tobacco moth, 

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and it only lays its eggs and 
feeds on Tobacco and debt Tira. 

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So they see this as kind of a 
Divine figure. 

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It can eat, it can consume this 
stuff and it and they the 

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transformation into the moth 
from. 

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The larvae was also significant 
to them. 

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There are shell gorgets 
courgettes are these He's 

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necklace kind of like pendants 
that they would wear and there 

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are examples of shamans emerging
from a cocoon. 

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That's very much like these 
cocoons that are made. 

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These Crystal has crystal eye 
that are made by these these 

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caterpillars. 
These, they call them hornworms 

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tobacco hornworms and I even 
found ethnological reports of a 

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myth or talking about a myth and
it's the Sun. 

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God is trying to determine if 
these two boys are his kids or 

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claiming to be his kids and 
these, they're the hero twins 

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that show up in virtually every 
Mississippian culture. 

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So, he says, handle the world 
cultures, right? 

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00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:15,600
I mean, you have, yeah, it's the
Roman is it I'm drawing a blank 

225
00:15:15,900 --> 00:15:18,400
Romulus and Romulus. 
Yeah, exactly. 

226
00:15:18,500 --> 00:15:21,600
Yeah. 
Yeah, this hero twins, Motif. 

227
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,600
And it shows up in Central 
America, it shows up in South 

228
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,700
America. 
But it shows up here, to, and 

229
00:15:28,700 --> 00:15:33,900
virtually every Mississippian 
culture, and he gives them a 

230
00:15:33,908 --> 00:15:38,900
test and this test becomes 
what's called a charter for a 

231
00:15:38,900 --> 00:15:43,800
rite of passage for young boys, 
a myth, they use myths to 

232
00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:46,100
Explain why they do certain 
things. 

233
00:15:46,100 --> 00:15:48,700
Once they use it that way, 
archaeologists called it a 

234
00:15:48,700 --> 00:15:52,100
charter. 
So it becomes a charter for this

235
00:15:52,100 --> 00:15:56,900
rite of passage for boys where 
he tells them, you see that. 

236
00:15:56,900 --> 00:15:58,700
You see that caterpillar right 
there. 

237
00:15:58,700 --> 00:16:05,100
That worm, he pukes blue stuff. 
If you watch him and they tell 

238
00:16:05,100 --> 00:16:07,300
the boys to take that 
caterpillar and put it in their 

239
00:16:07,300 --> 00:16:09,100
mouth. 
Don't chew it up, but just put 

240
00:16:09,100 --> 00:16:11,800
it in their mouth and then spit 
the juice out like they do 

241
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,900
tobacco well. 
This horn worm. 

242
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,900
Unlike other insects is, 
unaffected by nicotine, nicotine

243
00:16:18,900 --> 00:16:22,800
is toxic to most insects and 
kills them, but this hornworm 

244
00:16:22,900 --> 00:16:26,600
can not only not be affected by 
it, but it can hold it in its 

245
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:31,000
body as long as it wants. 
And it can eject at will, as a 

246
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,300
defense mechanism. 
So they've got these boys 

247
00:16:34,300 --> 00:16:38,100
holding this worm in their 
mouth, so it can spit in their 

248
00:16:38,100 --> 00:16:40,900
mouths. 
Now, I don't know if the spit 

249
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:47,100
that if the caterpillar somehow.
Metabolizes the substance and 

250
00:16:47,100 --> 00:16:51,200
makes it different somehow or or
easier to deal with. 

251
00:16:51,900 --> 00:16:56,200
But when they pass, this test 
takes a Calumet Off the Wall, 

252
00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,500
which a peace pipe and he packs 
it with something. 

253
00:16:59,500 --> 00:17:04,300
He calls the tobacco that kills,
and he said okay, and if they 

254
00:17:04,300 --> 00:17:07,400
can smoke it and survive, then 
he knows their Supernaturals in 

255
00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:11,900
their his children. 
So within the, the 

256
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,700
archaeological reports that In a
logical reports they're all 

257
00:17:15,700 --> 00:17:19,300
these overwhelming examples of 
entheogen. 

258
00:17:19,300 --> 00:17:24,099
Use among the mississippians. 
The most obvious are these 

259
00:17:24,099 --> 00:17:27,400
shells that they drink out of 
and they would these shells come

260
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:32,700
from, from the Gulf, they are. 
What's called a lightning Welk 

261
00:17:32,700 --> 00:17:34,600
Show. 
This is that the Blackwater, 

262
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,500
right? 
Black drink that her black trim 

263
00:17:37,500 --> 00:17:40,400
cast. 
A Cena is what they called it. 

264
00:17:41,700 --> 00:17:43,800
At least the Florida natives 
called it Cocina. 

265
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:49,300
And the this, this drink it's 
made from that ilex vomitoria 

266
00:17:49,300 --> 00:17:53,000
that caffeine Source. 
Well, when the Spanish and the 

267
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,900
French show up and they observe 
these natives doing this ritual,

268
00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,400
they've got this black drink 
they've boiled up with the 

269
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,100
Cocina and the shells. 
They're not little shells, 

270
00:18:02,100 --> 00:18:04,500
they're huge. 
They fill them with this stuff 

271
00:18:04,500 --> 00:18:07,400
and they drink it conch, shells 
or like what what are we talking

272
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:12,600
here? 
Yeah, like I've got a small one 

273
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:17,800
here. 
This is a small example but it's

274
00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:19,400
one of these. 
Okay. 

275
00:18:20,900 --> 00:18:26,600
And this is the same species 
because they only wanted them to

276
00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:30,700
spiral to the left. 
You see the Spiral goes this 

277
00:18:30,700 --> 00:18:34,300
way, whereas, other species 
virtually, every other species, 

278
00:18:34,300 --> 00:18:38,600
spirals to the right. 
So they wanted these in 

279
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:45,100
particular but the Lemoine for 
example, made these woodcuts of 

280
00:18:45,100 --> 00:18:48,200
the ritual where they're sitting
around drinking it and vomiting 

281
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,500
over and over, they drink it and
they vomit. 

282
00:18:51,100 --> 00:18:55,900
And it was this observation that
led botanist to classify it as 

283
00:18:55,900 --> 00:19:01,000
vomitoria and thought for years 
that this was in a medic. 

284
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,700
Well it only grows in certain 
areas, one of the area's is in 

285
00:19:05,700 --> 00:19:08,000
North Mississippi. 
So of course I was like, well, 

286
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,300
I'm gonna go get some and I'm 
going to make some and we'll see

287
00:19:10,300 --> 00:19:12,800
if we vomit and then we'll know 
if it makes you vomit. 

288
00:19:12,900 --> 00:19:16,600
It does not make you vomit. 
I've, I've drink lots of this 

289
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:20,000
stuff. 
It'll make you speed, but it 

290
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:21,200
won't make you vomit. 
It. 

291
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:27,300
So why are they vomiting? 
I think, the reason they're 

292
00:19:27,300 --> 00:19:31,300
vomiting is probably because of 
this Ayahuasca analog that they 

293
00:19:31,300 --> 00:19:35,100
were mixing with it. 
So, in the literature, it says 

294
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:40,900
that the base is this Cocina, 
this ilex vomitoria, but there 

295
00:19:40,900 --> 00:19:43,600
were a number of different 
secretive plants. 

296
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,800
They would add to it for 
different purposes. 

297
00:19:47,700 --> 00:19:52,200
One of those plants we know was 
datura because Was something 

298
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:59,900
like, 90% of the shell cups that
remain come from Spiro, Oklahoma

299
00:20:00,300 --> 00:20:03,900
and a group of scientists got 
together and they tested the 

300
00:20:03,900 --> 00:20:08,000
residues of these cups and they 
tested positive for debt Tara. 

301
00:20:08,100 --> 00:20:15,400
And for Theobroma caffeine 
related things from the Hilux, 

302
00:20:15,900 --> 00:20:19,200
so we know they were drinking 
the debtor away with it. 

303
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:23,600
We I don't know if they were 
looking for something like a 

304
00:20:23,608 --> 00:20:28,600
DMT, or if it would be if you'd 
be able to find it after that 

305
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:32,400
many years, 1000 years. 
But you know what? 

306
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,900
So, the dating on the black 
drink for like the 

307
00:20:35,900 --> 00:20:39,500
archaeological record has ten. 
Fifty a d--, is that kind of 

308
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:42,600
Where you fell? 
That's when the Mississippian 

309
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:47,000
culture started, right? 
But those butts, there's same 

310
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:53,600
shell Cups have been discovered 
in the graves of people from the

311
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:55,800
Hopewell. 
That's why I'm asking because I 

312
00:20:55,808 --> 00:20:59,100
don't believe a lot of these 
dates seem. 

313
00:20:59,100 --> 00:21:02,500
So, relatively new, it's like, 
if this stuff was going on, then

314
00:21:02,500 --> 00:21:04,300
then then it was going on a lot 
longer than they. 

315
00:21:04,300 --> 00:21:06,800
Just don't have evidence 
physical evidence for it. 

316
00:21:07,700 --> 00:21:09,400
It was definitely going on and a
good agree. 

317
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:13,000
We know it was because the Rick 
the ritual they're going through

318
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:18,400
even they're trying to say goes 
back no further than 910 50-ish 

319
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:23,000
that. 
But there's a study that was 

320
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,300
done on a particular Mound 
complex, that matches this 

321
00:21:26,300 --> 00:21:30,700
ritual to a tee where they're 
doing what they're explaining is

322
00:21:30,700 --> 00:21:34,800
this actual place that goes back
to Hopewell times. 

323
00:21:35,500 --> 00:21:40,100
So the ritual is at least that 
old Old and it involves bear Mah

324
00:21:40,100 --> 00:21:42,700
kwahm and Nico has his name in a
jeep. 

325
00:21:42,700 --> 00:21:45,700
When he's who brought the me to 
we went, which is known as the 

326
00:21:45,700 --> 00:21:49,400
grand medicine Society to the 
natives and me to. 

327
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,400
We went has like this secret 
society of shamans that's 

328
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:57,600
particularly focus on plants and
how to use plants for healing. 

329
00:22:00,100 --> 00:22:06,500
Well, one of the names for this 
bear is the left-handed one. 

330
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,300
And Say this. 
There's the charter for this. 

331
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:16,100
Is this story about a man who he
comes home and he realizes his 

332
00:22:16,300 --> 00:22:19,000
mother. 
Or his wife has been murdered 

333
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,100
and he thinks it's a bear, 
that's done it and he goes out 

334
00:22:22,100 --> 00:22:25,100
to The Bear Village and he 
starts a launching arrows at the

335
00:22:25,100 --> 00:22:26,900
Bears and he kills several of 
them. 

336
00:22:27,500 --> 00:22:31,100
And one of these Bears sees him 
coming and he puts his moccasins

337
00:22:31,100 --> 00:22:34,500
on so he can run away but he 
puts them on the wrong feet 

338
00:22:34,500 --> 00:22:38,700
because he's in such a hurry and
they say that That this is why 

339
00:22:38,700 --> 00:22:43,300
bearpaws their tracks are moved 
outward instead of inward like a

340
00:22:43,300 --> 00:22:47,200
man's tracks because his 
moccasins are on the wrong feet 

341
00:22:47,700 --> 00:22:50,400
in festivals from Aqua or 
forbear. 

342
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:56,000
The eat the things that bear 
likes to eat like honey maple 

343
00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:00,300
sugar, berries, and they only 
use their left hand as an 

344
00:23:00,300 --> 00:23:03,200
indication of that. 
It's like saying at the end of 

345
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,300
his right arm as a left hand. 
So when they want to do 

346
00:23:06,300 --> 00:23:09,500
something to Revere, R him or 
honor him, they use their left 

347
00:23:09,500 --> 00:23:12,100
hand and that's what I suspect 
is. 

348
00:23:12,100 --> 00:23:16,600
The real meaning behind the 
left-handed shells that spiral 

349
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,200
to the left there. 
It's the it's evidence that this

350
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:25,400
drink goes back to at least as 
far as this this bear ritual. 

351
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,600
That that is the charter for the
meter we win. 

352
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:36,100
And the meter we win. 
They they have these powders his

353
00:23:36,100 --> 00:23:39,700
magic powders, they carry and 
they carry them and animal sacs 

354
00:23:39,700 --> 00:23:43,500
called media way on and they'll 
usually make them from the skin 

355
00:23:43,500 --> 00:23:48,000
of the animal that's related to 
the degree that they belong to. 

356
00:23:48,100 --> 00:23:52,000
So it's a four degree system, 
later became eight degrees 

357
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,200
system. 
But in the original original 

358
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,700
model, it's a 4 degree system. 
And in each degree, is ruled by 

359
00:23:58,700 --> 00:24:02,800
a different Manito, which is a 
supernatural and these are in 

360
00:24:02,900 --> 00:24:08,600
Envisaged as being animals. 
So 1 degree is ruled by otter. 

361
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,300
One degree is ruled by bear, one
is ruled by Owl. 

362
00:24:12,700 --> 00:24:16,100
And for each of these degrees, 
they have these magic pouch has 

363
00:24:16,100 --> 00:24:21,400
almost like a gris-gris bag and 
who do or a packet Congo and 

364
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:25,100
Voodoo. 
And they put in these, these 

365
00:24:25,100 --> 00:24:28,700
pouches these magic herbs, they 
use and they're constantly 

366
00:24:28,700 --> 00:24:31,700
referencing Hunters medicine 
that they described as being a 

367
00:24:31,700 --> 00:24:35,900
Vermilion colored. 
Powder which was just stunning 

368
00:24:35,900 --> 00:24:41,600
to me having spent the last 20 
years, investigating Alchemy in 

369
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:47,600
this red powder problem. 
And at one point, they even 

370
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:52,500
named the fucking plant. 
And one of the charters, 

371
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,300
remember there, they have these 
Rites of Passage one of them to 

372
00:24:56,300 --> 00:25:02,000
determine whether or not. 
The boy is actually the son of a

373
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,600
supernatural. 
And they have him lay on a bed 

374
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,100
of Honey Locust Thorns, honey 
locust is good at see a tree at 

375
00:25:09,100 --> 00:25:12,000
Kent. 
Those while he's laying on them,

376
00:25:12,100 --> 00:25:17,100
he gets put in a pot and boiled 
so he's boiled with the honey 

377
00:25:17,100 --> 00:25:21,800
locust in this pot and this is 
the tree that they say, they get

378
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,400
their Hunters medicine from, 
they even describe it as 

379
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:30,900
Vermilion colored and another 
Charter at from a different 

380
00:25:30,900 --> 00:25:33,800
meeting. 
We went group has Sick girl, 

381
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,400
there are two girls instead of 
two boys, one of them is deathly

382
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,900
ill. 
Her body is basically rotting 

383
00:25:40,900 --> 00:25:44,700
and she smells awful and the 
other daughter says, I can't 

384
00:25:44,700 --> 00:25:47,800
stand the way she smells, you 
know, can we do something about 

385
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:49,400
it? 
And she overhears her and she's 

386
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,500
so she runs away and she goes to
sleep beneath. 

387
00:25:52,500 --> 00:25:56,900
This tree that it says has sharp
bows sharp bowels. 

388
00:25:56,900 --> 00:26:02,000
Excuse me, though, the overhang 
of the tree and has thorns in it

389
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,200
basically. 
And eventually, they dig the 

390
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:10,400
roots up of this tree and I kid 
you not it says they recover a 

391
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:15,800
stone from the route that they 
get red powder from and that's 

392
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:20,600
Hunters medicine. 
That's, that's stunning to me. 

393
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:26,300
I just absolutely staggering to 
me but that's what I thought. 

394
00:26:26,300 --> 00:26:29,500
That's what I'm calling them. 
This missive osca hypothesis is 

395
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,200
this overwhelming evidence that 
there Using DMT. 

396
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:41,300
And now, in some cases, There 
isn't passion flower, there will

397
00:26:41,300 --> 00:26:43,400
be tree account. 
Those the glad that see a tree, 

398
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,700
can't those but passiflora 
incarnata doesn't show up in 

399
00:26:46,700 --> 00:26:49,500
about two or three different 
reports where the tree does. 

400
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:52,400
So I thought well how does it 
work? 

401
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:58,900
The more I started digging 
nicotiana, Rustica works as a 

402
00:26:58,900 --> 00:27:03,200
monoamine, oxidase inhibitor. 
I didn't know that tobacco 

403
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,300
certain tobacco strains were 
maois. 

404
00:27:05,300 --> 00:27:10,200
But this one is. 
And and when I looked even 

405
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,500
further and started investing in
the chemistry of this, ilex 

406
00:27:13,500 --> 00:27:17,500
vomitoria, the Yaupon Holly that
they make the black drink from. 

407
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:19,900
It's a monoamine. 
Oxidase inhibitor. 

408
00:27:19,900 --> 00:27:22,100
Just like yerba mate is a 
monoamine. 

409
00:27:22,100 --> 00:27:28,800
Oxidase inhibitor. so, it's 
overwhelming evidence that 

410
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,500
they're using a DMT and 
Ayahuasca analog, but even if 

411
00:27:32,500 --> 00:27:36,200
they're not, they are using 
datura, they are using morning 

412
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,200
glory seeds. 
They are using black Nightshade.

413
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:48,700
So it's a pretty evolved complex
system of medicine that they've,

414
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,800
they've arrived at, and it's all
but lost at this point. 

415
00:27:53,500 --> 00:27:56,700
I brought this thesis to the 
attention of a chair Chief who 

416
00:27:56,700 --> 00:27:58,700
is also a Mason and a 
rosicrucian. 

417
00:27:59,100 --> 00:28:00,800
So we get along. 
We've known each other for a 

418
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:06,100
while, and frankly, he was 
offended by everything. 

419
00:28:06,100 --> 00:28:13,100
I was saying that I would even 
insinuate this later, he sent me

420
00:28:13,100 --> 00:28:17,700
an article called Altered States
of America from an archaeology 

421
00:28:17,700 --> 00:28:21,600
magazine by Gail Keck as the 
author. 

422
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,600
It confirms everything I'm 
saying. 

423
00:28:24,900 --> 00:28:29,400
So, I took that to mean, you 
know, I can't tell you what this

424
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,800
is but here that talks about it 
here, that's so mi. 

425
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,700
So hee was in offended at the 
fact that you were talking about

426
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,700
possibly some of their sacred 
secret rituals. 

427
00:28:40,700 --> 00:28:44,100
Something you probably should 
know, or he was more offended 

428
00:28:44,100 --> 00:28:46,900
that you were insinuating that 
they used entheogens or like, 

429
00:28:46,900 --> 00:28:52,300
what was the both both? 
He admitted to me that they used

430
00:28:52,300 --> 00:28:57,000
something, they use datura. 
But he said it's not like you 

431
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,400
think and I said, well what do 
you think? 

432
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:03,500
I think you know, hey said what 
we're not using it to trip. 

433
00:29:03,700 --> 00:29:05,900
It's a medicine and I said, 
well, of course, it's a 

434
00:29:05,908 --> 00:29:08,400
medicine, that's what every 
indigenous culture calls this 

435
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,000
stuff. 
It's a medicine, you know, but 

436
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,100
it, but you're using it and that
was pretty much where the 

437
00:29:14,300 --> 00:29:17,400
conversation ended. 
But and I don't know if someone 

438
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,800
else was present, this was over 
the phone. 

439
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,400
So I don't know if someone else 
was present and overheard him 

440
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,400
talking to me about, Isn't he 
thought? 

441
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,600
You know, I need to shut this 
down, you know, pretty quick or 

442
00:29:29,608 --> 00:29:31,400
not. 
But this is a man who's been 

443
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:35,700
doing peyote since he was seven 
and payroll rights. 

444
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,700
So I already thought why would 
you be offended by it? 

445
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,800
Where would you be bashful about
this? 

446
00:29:42,500 --> 00:29:48,100
Yeah yeah he's a Cherokee Chief 
out of Oklahoma and very 

447
00:29:48,100 --> 00:29:54,100
knowledgeable. 
He gave a lecture on how Masonic

448
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,200
Ritual actually influence the 
way peyote is used in the half 

449
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,900
moon, ceremony, the Quanah 
Parker created, I didn't realize

450
00:30:02,900 --> 00:30:06,900
this, but a lot of natives 
became Freemasons right off the 

451
00:30:06,908 --> 00:30:09,300
bat were immediately attracted 
to it. 

452
00:30:09,300 --> 00:30:13,100
And after investigating the me 
to we win, it makes sense 

453
00:30:13,100 --> 00:30:17,000
because they already have this 
graded degree structure, where 

454
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:22,100
Mysteries are dulled out, you 
know, slowly at a time and and 

455
00:30:22,100 --> 00:30:26,200
The Acacia correlation. 
They blew my mind like you got 

456
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,000
to remember it. 
It's Acacia Americana. 

457
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:34,300
Also, we found evidence of the 
case, you use all over the place

458
00:30:34,300 --> 00:30:37,800
in an entheogen of context and 
America. 

459
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,200
It looks like is right there in 
the middle of it. 

460
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:45,500
North America, we know in South 
America, there's an atom Thera 

461
00:30:45,500 --> 00:30:47,800
call you Brina, and an add-in in
therapy. 

462
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:52,400
Peregrina, which is where we get
yo, popo or a penis snuff that 

463
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:57,400
they make from the Saudis. 
He's with the Rustica with the 

464
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:02,000
DMT containing and áanotherá 
that would be enough to launch 

465
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,600
off. 
Yep. 

466
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,400
Absolutely. 
Would so snuff that's probably 

467
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:07,900
what they were doing with the 
snuff. 

468
00:31:08,500 --> 00:31:12,200
Yeah, there's there's evidence 
of snuffs the fact that it was a

469
00:31:12,300 --> 00:31:15,500
red powder leads me to believe 
that it was probably a snuff. 

470
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:22,300
Yeah, you're spot-on. 
Yeah, I like I said I went back 

471
00:31:22,300 --> 00:31:28,700
to that episode and re-watched. 
It the Jonathan well. 

472
00:31:28,700 --> 00:31:30,700
It was a Hamilton's 
pharmacopoeia episode where he 

473
00:31:30,700 --> 00:31:35,000
was trying to recreate Jonathan 
dots journey to Argentina where 

474
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,600
there's a specific and áanotherá
tree there. 

475
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,600
That they do this specific 
ceremony and stuff like that. 

476
00:31:42,700 --> 00:31:50,000
So yeah, the guy, he's one of 
the few legit shamans. 

477
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,800
Seen on a television show. 
I couldn't believe I was 

478
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:57,300
watching that, but that guy that
he meant that that gave him that

479
00:31:57,300 --> 00:32:00,900
snuff, you're looking at a real 
Shaman when you're looking at 

480
00:32:00,900 --> 00:32:05,200
that. 
I believe hearing you talk about

481
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:09,600
this reminds me of hopping I 
think that's how you say it, 

482
00:32:10,500 --> 00:32:12,100
right? 
Same kind of thing, right? 

483
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,500
Yep. 
It's a that's just a tobacco 

484
00:32:16,700 --> 00:32:23,000
snuff but you do have people now
adding things like cocoa to it 

485
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:29,400
just kind of synergize it, but I
think it is pronounced wrap a 

486
00:32:29,700 --> 00:32:35,900
but the Rope AP the rapey 
pronunciation led us here to try

487
00:32:35,900 --> 00:32:42,700
and say it differently but the 
Taisha that I know that uses 

488
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:44,800
right. 
Fire to Ayahuasca ceremonies. 

489
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:51,500
He calls it rapping Yeah, that's
that's, that's pretty much the 

490
00:32:51,500 --> 00:32:57,300
same, the same stuff. 
I don't, I think the so down in 

491
00:32:57,300 --> 00:33:00,700
South America, and Central 
America, they're also using 

492
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:05,800
Rustica. 
It's only in, and the Southwest 

493
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,600
they don't have Rustica, they 
have nicotiana obtuse, a Folia. 

494
00:33:09,900 --> 00:33:16,100
Now, this is interesting too. 
So I went to Arizona with Jamie 

495
00:33:16,100 --> 00:33:22,100
Paul lamb, shout out to Jamie. 
Astrologer and brother Mason and

496
00:33:22,100 --> 00:33:28,100
he took me to. 
It's called dear dear. 

497
00:33:28,100 --> 00:33:31,700
I don't think it's Deer Park but
it's dear something Petroglyph 

498
00:33:31,700 --> 00:33:38,600
Park and we walked all around. 
It must have been the entire 

499
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,800
area was probably 11 or 12 acres
all the way up there. 

500
00:33:44,100 --> 00:33:46,400
I didn't see any plants. 
I mean, it's the desert. 

501
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,200
I didn't see hardly anything 
growing except for like 

502
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:56,800
Sagebrush when we got to the 
petroglyphs, which are Are 

503
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:01,100
already strange-looking because 
they're enormous Boulders that 

504
00:34:01,300 --> 00:34:05,600
no one could move and it would 
take a group of men to move them

505
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,900
and they look stacked. 
It doesn't look, it's not a 

506
00:34:08,900 --> 00:34:13,000
mountain, it's a bunch of rocks 
stacked in a pile just like we 

507
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:17,400
see in Alabama with the The 
Rockpile Mounds but they're 

508
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,100
bigger and all over. 
These stones are these 

509
00:34:21,100 --> 00:34:25,800
petroglyphs that are At the time
were puzzling. 

510
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,300
I couldn't figure out what I was
looking at now. 

511
00:34:27,300 --> 00:34:31,100
I know that at least two of 
those symbols were that moth The

512
00:34:31,100 --> 00:34:34,199
Moth that we were talking about 
earlier, manduca sexta. 

513
00:34:35,100 --> 00:34:38,000
But once I see there's a rope, 
you know, and you're not 

514
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,900
supposed to go past that rope, 
of course, I mean I jump the 

515
00:34:40,900 --> 00:34:44,300
rope and and I will because I 
saw some plants growing 

516
00:34:44,300 --> 00:34:48,500
underneath each of the 
petroglyphs almost like directly

517
00:34:48,500 --> 00:34:52,300
under every Petroglyph. 
When I got close enough to see 

518
00:34:52,300 --> 00:34:54,000
what they were, they were 
datura. 

519
00:34:54,100 --> 00:34:59,900
Mattel and nicotiana obtuse of 
Folia datya and desert tobacco 

520
00:35:01,300 --> 00:35:05,200
under every Petroglyph. 
So I thought well these must 

521
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,200
just be native here. 
I guess so. 

522
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:12,900
Jamie and I walked the whole 
area we couldn't find a single 

523
00:35:13,100 --> 00:35:17,600
specimen anywhere else in this 
desert where we were able to go 

524
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:23,800
only under these petroglyphs. 
So I asked a botanist, a friend 

525
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,500
In about it is so cool. 
You know what are the chances 

526
00:35:27,500 --> 00:35:31,400
that this grows only there and 
he said, well, those two plants 

527
00:35:31,900 --> 00:35:34,000
where they drop their seeds, 
they grow. 

528
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,800
And I said well, for how long 
for potentially a thousand years

529
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,700
or more, if the weathers right, 
if the climate's, right? 

530
00:35:41,300 --> 00:35:43,900
And so I said, what are the 
chances that those plants were 

531
00:35:43,900 --> 00:35:48,100
planted under the pastor? 
And he said, well I can't answer

532
00:35:48,100 --> 00:35:50,600
that but if you didn't find them
anywhere else in the desert the 

533
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:52,400
chances are probably pretty 
good. 

534
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:58,800
Well, Fast forward like two 
weeks and I run across this 

535
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,000
article of these archaeologists 
that were studying the 

536
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:06,100
petroglyphs on this 24, Mile 
Stretch and New Mexico. 

537
00:36:06,900 --> 00:36:11,500
And every time they saw one 
particular glyph, which is a 

538
00:36:11,900 --> 00:36:16,400
triangular, a jagged looking 
glyph. 

539
00:36:16,700 --> 00:36:21,400
They found either nicotiana 
obtuse a folio or detriment ill 

540
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,800
and the, so her there Oh 
thinking this symbol for them is

541
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,000
like this is writing, this is 
language and it need cakes, 

542
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,600
these plants. 
Well that right jack is 

543
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:37,500
conveying information people. 
You're right and that for a 

544
00:36:37,500 --> 00:36:42,800
preliterate society, it's saying
we see this on the jars to that 

545
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,800
saying, this is what the 
contents of this jar are. 

546
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:56,900
But those Jagged Motif shows up 
in pottery and Zuni, pottery and

547
00:36:56,900 --> 00:37:02,400
it's the jagged Motif on the 
wing of manduca, sexta, the same

548
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,500
exact movement and motion. 
Ocean a downward, kind of 

549
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,900
movement and the Mississippian 
culture before it becomes the 

550
00:37:10,900 --> 00:37:13,500
Mississippian culture. 
The first real picture we get of

551
00:37:13,500 --> 00:37:17,600
it is in a place called picture 
cave and it's this private cave 

552
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,800
that was recently auctioned off 
for like a million dollars. 

553
00:37:21,100 --> 00:37:23,200
So somebody owns and it's on 
private land. 

554
00:37:25,100 --> 00:37:31,800
But in it is that same Jagged 
pattern along with several other

555
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:36,700
images that we associate with 
the mississippians like the 

556
00:37:36,700 --> 00:37:41,900
Birdman red horn. 
There's also known as morning 

557
00:37:41,900 --> 00:37:46,100
star with the long nose mask 
gets four earrings. 

558
00:37:46,300 --> 00:37:50,000
One of his name's is he who 
wears human heads on his ears 

559
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,300
and those long nose mess gets 
those are those twins. 

560
00:37:53,300 --> 00:37:56,700
He's their father. 
That shows up there for the 

561
00:37:56,707 --> 00:38:01,000
first time in this is eighth 
Century. 

562
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:05,100
Ninth Century right before the 
mississippians happen, but that 

563
00:38:05,100 --> 00:38:10,700
same Jagged pattern is on the 
wall and there. so, absolutely 

564
00:38:10,700 --> 00:38:16,600
just Mind-boggling to me. 
I'm so in meshed in this and 

565
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:21,700
here for this right now that I 
can I can barely keep my mind on

566
00:38:21,700 --> 00:38:23,200
anything else. 
You're doing? 

567
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,900
Me a favor by letting me talk. 
Oh, dude, I love this shit. 

568
00:38:26,900 --> 00:38:29,800
I love learning things. 
I people get mad at me. 

569
00:38:29,900 --> 00:38:33,500
Yeah, I'm like dying here. 
I'm so wrapped up in this, it's 

570
00:38:33,500 --> 00:38:36,500
so cool. 
I people give me a lot of shit. 

571
00:38:36,500 --> 00:38:40,100
They're like because, you know, 
I say I want people to blow my 

572
00:38:40,100 --> 00:38:43,200
mind you know, like, there's not
enough If people out there that 

573
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:48,000
are doing like enough research 
or so, it's like some of these 

574
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:49,900
Fringe communities. 
I'll say like, who's blowing 

575
00:38:49,900 --> 00:38:52,100
your mind? 
And, you know, almost take it 

576
00:38:52,100 --> 00:38:54,400
down a Socratic method. 
Road, while ask them a bunch of 

577
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,600
questions and then the result is
them answering in. 

578
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:01,000
Like, oh, well, there's this 
person or there's that person 

579
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,200
but that person, blah, blah, 
blah, blah. 

580
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,200
And you realize, like a lot of 
these people don't know shit. 

581
00:39:06,300 --> 00:39:10,600
You know? 
So it's like, so when I listen 

582
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,000
to you talk, first of all, Can 
look up everything you're saying

583
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,200
and cross-reference and it's 
everything you're sayings 

584
00:39:17,300 --> 00:39:20,600
accurate. 
You know, obviously aside from 

585
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:24,400
your personal research where you
lay that out within your 

586
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,600
hypothesis and your book and 
everything like that. 

587
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:30,800
But the dating the the 
timelines, all that kind of 

588
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,000
wonderful stuff. 
It's not like what you're 

589
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,900
sayings, crazy. 
But like a lot of people don't 

590
00:39:35,900 --> 00:39:38,600
take it to the level you do. 
So I, you know, I love the 

591
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,000
passion. 
That's why we're doing this 

592
00:39:41,100 --> 00:39:44,100
series because Cuz I want to 
learn stuff. 

593
00:39:44,100 --> 00:39:46,800
You know, I don't really and I'm
not saying this to be like cocky

594
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,000
or anything, but I don't really 
talk to that many people where 

595
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,700
I'm like, learning like a ton of
new stuff from the most of the 

596
00:39:51,700 --> 00:39:55,300
stuff I learned is from reading 
books, reading old books, 

597
00:39:55,300 --> 00:39:59,300
reading dense books, you know, 
that kind of reading, you know, 

598
00:39:59,300 --> 00:40:02,900
you and me are kind of similar, 
like, we read a lot of classical

599
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:07,000
philosophy stuff, stuff about 
Plato stuff about, you know, 

600
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,900
Parmenides all that kind of 
theurgy, all that kind of stuff.

601
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,500
So, it's like, Again I want to 
learn. 

602
00:40:13,500 --> 00:40:15,900
So if there's nobody bringing 
anything really new to the 

603
00:40:15,900 --> 00:40:18,300
table, it's like woah, bro. 
You know, like we just smoked 

604
00:40:18,300 --> 00:40:22,400
like TNT dog, you know, you know
it's like stuff like that's like

605
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,800
no I'm good on that. 
I want to know the cultural 

606
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,500
aspects of it. 
I want to know the secret 

607
00:40:28,500 --> 00:40:32,000
society aspects of that. 
I want to know about the 

608
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,200
pharmacology. 
You know, I want to know about 

609
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,300
all that kind of stuff. 
So it's just like the Bro 

610
00:40:36,300 --> 00:40:39,200
Science stuff. 
I'm way beyond that. 

611
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:43,900
So one of the one of the The 
things that's so compelling PD 

612
00:40:43,900 --> 00:40:47,100
and hearing you talk. 
First of all is I'm a big fan of

613
00:40:47,100 --> 00:40:50,700
this kind of Rogue scientist 
approach you know the things 

614
00:40:50,700 --> 00:40:53,200
that we saw with. 
Whether Timothy Leary or 

615
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:58,600
Alexander shulgin or John Lilly,
right, this willingness and very

616
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,200
internalized sense of curiosity 
and openness to the varieties of

617
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,400
experience, that's as a capital 
R romantic like hearing you work

618
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,100
out. 
This is very, very appealing to 

619
00:41:08,100 --> 00:41:12,800
me because I have such a curious
mind and I A big fan of 

620
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:18,000
experimentation but also, you 
know, just philosophically 

621
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,200
speaking. 
What's really compelling to me 

622
00:41:20,300 --> 00:41:26,000
is I think when we were talking 
about science, in any sense it 

623
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:30,200
tends to be this very 
prepositional kind of knowledge,

624
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,000
and modernity, this idea that 
it's something to be read and 

625
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,300
learned about, but knock, not 
actually participated in and 

626
00:41:36,300 --> 00:41:40,300
there is as you were saying this
participatory knowledge or 

627
00:41:40,300 --> 00:41:43,800
gnosis, that's it. 
Viewed by actually participating

628
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,300
in these experiences and 
ceremonies that far, outstrips 

629
00:41:47,300 --> 00:41:50,000
kind of the material assessment 
of what's going on. 

630
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,700
And I think that when we're 
talking about these expensive 

631
00:41:52,700 --> 00:41:56,600
experiences or psychedelics or 
meditation or breathwork or 

632
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:05,600
whatever else there, you can 
only kind of obliquely get at 

633
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:08,800
the heart of these experiences 
through like literal 

634
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,700
documentation. 
There is this sort of 

635
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,500
Participatory knowledge and 
gnosticism at the heart of it, 

636
00:42:15,500 --> 00:42:18,700
that can only really be 
conferred by experiencing it. 

637
00:42:19,300 --> 00:42:21,600
Hmm. 
I think that's a pivotal notion 

638
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:26,600
to and in genuine 
spiritualities. 

639
00:42:26,900 --> 00:42:31,300
That I don't think you can get 
it unless you dive in a little 

640
00:42:31,300 --> 00:42:35,100
bit and do it and take it at 
face value and listen to what 

641
00:42:35,100 --> 00:42:39,000
they're saying and and try a 
good example. 

642
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:44,100
As Palo mayombe, another thing 
I'm really Get into right now. 

643
00:42:44,100 --> 00:42:49,400
I'm taking it my initiation into
Paulo next month and in Paulo 

644
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:55,800
eautiful, you're asked to kind 
of accept a world view that for 

645
00:42:55,900 --> 00:42:59,200
modern westerners is very 
difficult because everything is 

646
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:03,800
centered around the dead. 
There's, there's this notion 

647
00:43:03,900 --> 00:43:07,000
that you're only alive to the 
degree that the dead flow 

648
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:13,100
through you, your porous. 
And what animates is Early your 

649
00:43:13,100 --> 00:43:15,400
ancestors which they call 
Colunga. 

650
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,000
It's the word that you will 
antic ocean but it means this 

651
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:24,200
massive, the anonymous a dead 
that moves through you and makes

652
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:30,500
you makes you animate. 
And when I first encountered 

653
00:43:30,500 --> 00:43:35,500
that I thought am I going to be 
okay if afterwards if I accept 

654
00:43:35,500 --> 00:43:40,400
this worldview, am I going to be
able to keep functioning If I 

655
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:44,700
think that way but those are the
leaps that have to be made. 

656
00:43:44,700 --> 00:43:48,900
I really believe that if we want
to understand anything about it.

657
00:43:49,700 --> 00:43:54,200
And with this, this territory, 
this Native American territory, 

658
00:43:54,900 --> 00:43:58,200
like Mike said about the 
cultural side of it, not just 

659
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:00,300
the drugs are using but the 
cultural side. 

660
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,500
Well what they're doing with it 
is dying. 

661
00:44:04,900 --> 00:44:09,200
This they're dying traveling. 
There mean of course it's 

662
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,100
ritual. 
Wised, they're putting on a 

663
00:44:11,107 --> 00:44:15,400
ritual that you're going through
nominally, what you would go 

664
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:19,600
through, really? 
If you were dead and it's to 

665
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:24,100
teach you what to do when you 
die, it's practical to say 

666
00:44:24,100 --> 00:44:27,700
because if you don't know, you 
don't know where to go, you 

667
00:44:27,707 --> 00:44:31,600
don't know how to do it. 
And for them, it Fascinate this 

668
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:34,900
fascinates me to that knowledge 
isn't for everyone. 

669
00:44:34,900 --> 00:44:37,600
Not everyone gets to know what 
you do when you die. 

670
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:41,700
That's initiated knowledge. 
Is a special place you too, but 

671
00:44:41,700 --> 00:44:45,300
not everybody can get their. 
You know, that's that's very 

672
00:44:45,300 --> 00:44:48,600
fascinating to me because it 
this modern culture that, you 

673
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:52,100
know, this this notion that 
everything should be free to 

674
00:44:52,100 --> 00:44:55,200
everybody. 
And there should be no secrets 

675
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:59,100
and all the door should be open.
I don't think that way at all. 

676
00:44:59,100 --> 00:45:03,700
I think that right that wisdom 
and is, is granted, you're not 

677
00:45:03,700 --> 00:45:07,000
give you my take on that. 
And I know you could, you have a

678
00:45:07,008 --> 00:45:10,400
different take as your in some 
of these organizations and 

679
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,600
stuff. 
An epiphany that I came to was 

680
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,900
that it's not that this 
knowledge is being withheld from

681
00:45:16,900 --> 00:45:21,700
people from these secret 
organizations, or Societies, or 

682
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:26,300
clubs or whatever it is mentors,
whatever. 

683
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:31,200
Its you have to seek it out 
yourself and through seeking, 

684
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,300
you know, you can't. 
How am I trying to? 

685
00:45:36,300 --> 00:45:42,600
It's not about People being kept
kept from knowing it's about. 

686
00:45:43,500 --> 00:45:46,300
Like you said it's kind of its 
kind of a hybrid of what I'm 

687
00:45:46,300 --> 00:45:50,500
saying and what you're saying? 
You're saying not everybody 

688
00:45:50,500 --> 00:45:52,900
supposed to have that and I 
agree but I think that that 

689
00:45:52,900 --> 00:45:55,800
comes with what I'm saying which
is you have to seek that 

690
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,400
knowledge out yourself. 
You cannot just be given that 

691
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:00,000
knowledge. 
It means nothing to you. 

692
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,900
If you've done nothing to gain 
that knowledge. 

693
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,300
So when we have a world full of 
people right now that want 

694
00:46:06,300 --> 00:46:10,800
everything just handed to them 
or put down on Google or Wiki or

695
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:14,600
whatever, we're in a place now. 
Now, where it should just be 

696
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:16,700
easy in the minds of most 
people. 

697
00:46:16,700 --> 00:46:20,800
But in reality, these topics, 
whether it be psychedelics the 

698
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:24,500
Mind death, what happens when we
die metaphysics, these are very 

699
00:46:24,500 --> 00:46:29,500
complicated topics. 
So we're not putting in the 

700
00:46:29,500 --> 00:46:33,200
work, as a society and that's 
what we're witnessing is. 

701
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,300
Kind of like, what you're 
talking about, I again, but I 

702
00:46:35,300 --> 00:46:38,000
don't think it's Gatekeepers 
keeping people out. 

703
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,500
I think it's people keeping 
themselves out by just not being

704
00:46:40,500 --> 00:46:43,000
interested in the mysteries of 
life. 

705
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:44,200
Kind of a thing. 
Yep. 

706
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:48,700
Part. 
And part of it is for, for the 

707
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:55,500
protection of the uninitiated. 
It's not my place explode. 

708
00:46:55,500 --> 00:46:59,300
Someone's worldview. 
That's, that's violent. 

709
00:46:59,300 --> 00:47:04,600
And it's mean, and a large 
percentage of the secrecy, 

710
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:10,300
especially in these societies, 
is for the protection of of the 

711
00:47:10,300 --> 00:47:17,500
person, but what you are saying,
I think is valid to because When

712
00:47:17,500 --> 00:47:21,200
you allow a purse, like let's 
take music. 

713
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:29,100
For example, your big music fan 
like I am, if if If I show my 

714
00:47:29,100 --> 00:47:32,300
brother, I love my brother to 
death, but if I show him 

715
00:47:32,300 --> 00:47:35,800
anything music or something, 
he's not going to listen to it. 

716
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:40,300
He, but if he finds it himself, 
he'll be like, oh, man. 

717
00:47:40,300 --> 00:47:42,600
If you heard this, I'll say 
yeah, fucking showed you that 

718
00:47:42,700 --> 00:47:46,500
like two years ago, it did I 
know exactly. 

719
00:47:46,500 --> 00:47:48,400
I know exactly what you're 
talking about. 

720
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,600
Yeah, because it's too. 
It's too easy. 

721
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:54,600
And I remember showing Maurice, 
unfreeze McGee, and weaned, and 

722
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,000
same thing with my cousin Rob. 
And they're both. 

723
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:01,200
Like what the fuck is this? 
And then later I'm like dude 

724
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,700
have you checked out Quebec? 
Or have you checked out this 

725
00:48:03,700 --> 00:48:06,700
new? 
I'm like, but but I, but I don't

726
00:48:06,700 --> 00:48:07,700
give him too much. 
You like my cousin. 

727
00:48:07,700 --> 00:48:10,200
Rob got me into fish which is 
like my favorite band now. 

728
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,400
So it's like you know, it's a 
little bit of a back-and-forth 

729
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,500
with all that but I completely 
agree with what you're saying. 

730
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,800
On the other hand, to I also 
used to give guitar lessons and 

731
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,700
the kids that learned and 
learned quickly where the kids 

732
00:48:22,700 --> 00:48:25,500
that wanted to play the guitar. 
Not the kids, whose parents made

733
00:48:25,500 --> 00:48:26,900
them play the guitar, that was 
okay. 

734
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:34,300
I took away from that experience
was the kids that wanted to 

735
00:48:34,300 --> 00:48:36,600
learn like they would come be 
excited. 

736
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:39,100
Oh, guitar lesson and I want to 
learn this song and that song 

737
00:48:39,100 --> 00:48:41,000
and I want to do this. 
And those were the kids that 

738
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,500
actually walked away with 
something and in the kids who 

739
00:48:43,500 --> 00:48:46,500
were just forced to do it was 
just like it was brutal, you 

740
00:48:46,500 --> 00:48:48,200
know? 
So yeah. 

741
00:48:48,300 --> 00:48:51,700
And you think about the way 
Alchemists work and how chemical

742
00:48:51,700 --> 00:48:57,600
manuscripts, they give you half 
truths and and Giving you a 

743
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:01,000
half, truth is the biggest gift.
It's much more valuable than 

744
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:04,800
giving you the whole truth, 
because it's an invitation to 

745
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:08,500
discover yourself to get 
involved and figure it out. 

746
00:49:08,500 --> 00:49:11,300
If there's not a riddle, we 
don't feel like we've 

747
00:49:11,300 --> 00:49:13,800
accomplished anything by being 
handed something. 

748
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:18,700
We just set it back down on our 
Shelf, we make a spot for it and

749
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:22,300
a pretty little box. 
And we say, yeah, I know that, 

750
00:49:22,300 --> 00:49:28,000
you know, but you don't, you 
don't until you are in, Almost 

751
00:49:28,100 --> 00:49:33,600
impelled to to figure that out 
for yourself and then it means 

752
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:37,200
something. 
Yeah I agree. 

753
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:41,600
Yeah I've been you can you can 
take that philosophy and apply 

754
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:44,800
at all the stuff. 
But yeah, I mean, I agree with 

755
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,400
partly what you're saying and I 
obviously there's a reason why 

756
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:53,500
those whether it be Freemasons 
or rosicrucians or Any of these 

757
00:49:53,700 --> 00:49:58,000
organizations or Societies or 
whatever they're trying to 

758
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:03,000
preserve and maybe there's a 
secrecy aspect to to preserve 

759
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:07,100
those Traditions, just to not 
let anybody come in and alter or

760
00:50:08,500 --> 00:50:11,200
change or becomes game of 
telephone or something like 

761
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:12,900
that. 
Which I'm sure it's happened to 

762
00:50:12,900 --> 00:50:16,400
some extent. 
Anyways, given time with masonry

763
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:21,200
with masonry, the secrecy is, is
there's a difference in secrets 

764
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:24,800
and Mysteries. 
These secrets are just modes of 

765
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:29,600
recognition. 
The handshakes the passwords, 

766
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:33,200
the steps, the things that would
get you in a lodge. 

767
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:37,800
Anything else we can talk about 
because those are Mysteries 

768
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:41,300
which are said in masonry they 
say are ineffable. 

769
00:50:41,700 --> 00:50:45,800
Meaning I can't, I can't. 
If you don't have a frame of 

770
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,600
reference for it it's not going 
to mean anything to you. 

771
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:52,000
If I tell you the whole thing it
wouldn't matter. 

772
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:56,500
Because those are Mysteries 
different from Secrets. 

773
00:50:57,100 --> 00:51:01,100
Yeah, I think percent what 
percentage, what percentage of 

774
00:51:01,100 --> 00:51:05,100
Mason's would you say are in to 
not necessarily psychedelics but

775
00:51:05,100 --> 00:51:10,300
just these like more 
metaphysical elements of these 

776
00:51:10,300 --> 00:51:13,100
traditions because I've talked 
to a couple people that made it 

777
00:51:13,107 --> 00:51:17,300
just seemed like it was more 
like a beer-drinking networking 

778
00:51:17,300 --> 00:51:19,200
kind of a thing. 
Social fraternity. 

779
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:20,800
Social fraternity. 
Thank you. 

780
00:51:21,500 --> 00:51:25,700
It's social for sure, but the 
way masonry Worx number one, 

781
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:32,000
masonry is a microcosm. 
The ratio of assholes is the 

782
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:38,000
same inside as outside. 
Now, the second point is that, 

783
00:51:38,300 --> 00:51:44,200
when, As Above So Below, Yep. 
That's exactly the same. 

784
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:48,200
The ratio of people who could 
get it is the same inside as 

785
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:51,600
outside so don't think you're 
going to come into a lodge and 

786
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:55,400
everybody is going to be talking
about Kabbalah and Alchemy and 

787
00:51:55,400 --> 00:52:00,000
Taro and Sufism. 
They're not is their lodges that

788
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:03,600
are just subtle do contain like,
mostly those types of people are

789
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:08,200
known as that not exist. 
Yes, there are lodges that that 

790
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:13,100
Put you through hell to get 
into, make sure that you're the 

791
00:52:13,100 --> 00:52:17,300
right person they want. 
And then they have a club 

792
00:52:17,300 --> 00:52:21,800
setting of people of like mind 
but that's not really what 

793
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:25,400
masonries about masonry is 
supposed to be about people that

794
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:30,600
aren't of like mind being able 
to sit next to one another as a 

795
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:34,000
Brotherhood under a fatherhood 
of God kind of thing. 

796
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:42,600
But but this, the the Yeah, it's
the same, really? 

797
00:52:42,700 --> 00:52:48,700
I mean, I don't I don't I've 
never been to a lodge where just

798
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:54,500
everyone was in tune but I don't
think they're supposed to be 

799
00:52:55,200 --> 00:53:00,100
masonry is a science of man and 
there are so many facets of 

800
00:53:00,900 --> 00:53:05,000
Manliness that. 
I think there's plenty of room 

801
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:07,900
for people who could care less 
about any of that other stuff. 

802
00:53:08,500 --> 00:53:12,600
But the the other point I was 
going to make is that masonry is

803
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:17,800
like an invitation to a banquet.
Not everybody is going to eat 

804
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,400
and those who do eat aren't 
going to take a bite of 

805
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:25,100
everything. 
You're you're invited to explore

806
00:53:25,100 --> 00:53:26,300
what? 
They're offering you but you're 

807
00:53:26,300 --> 00:53:33,700
not made to What You're Made to 
do is give this mouth to ear 

808
00:53:33,700 --> 00:53:38,400
word-for-word transmission. 
So that a like you said, we know

809
00:53:38,500 --> 00:53:40,800
it's going to be the same 
throughout the years, the 

810
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:45,800
telephone game won't screw it up
and be we at least can Be sure 

811
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:52,000
that the the individual Mason 
has internalized, the work to 

812
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:55,700
some degree because he's 
memorized it masonry works on 

813
00:53:55,700 --> 00:53:58,000
catechisms. 
So after you take your first 

814
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,600
degree before, you can take the 
second degree. 

815
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:04,400
There are 56 questions and 
answers that you have to know 

816
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:08,000
word for word. 
If you miss a single word, you 

817
00:54:08,008 --> 00:54:12,500
don't pass and you have to do it
again and that's not written 

818
00:54:12,500 --> 00:54:14,800
down. 
You have to meet some old dude. 

819
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:19,300
Dude at the lodge on his day off
and tells you stuff. 

820
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:21,700
Yeah, I told you. 
I remember when we had Randall 

821
00:54:21,700 --> 00:54:23,300
Carlson on, I think it might 
have been. 

822
00:54:23,700 --> 00:54:24,900
We've had them on like three 
times. 

823
00:54:24,900 --> 00:54:27,700
I might have been the second 
episode where he was talking 

824
00:54:27,700 --> 00:54:30,900
about, how going through the 
rights actually improved his 

825
00:54:30,900 --> 00:54:34,500
memory because of all the 
memorization and everything like

826
00:54:34,500 --> 00:54:35,800
that. 
And through that process is 

827
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:38,000
actually made him like a better 
researcher to. 

828
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:40,700
Absolutely. 
I had no idea. 

829
00:54:41,700 --> 00:54:43,300
I could fit all that stuff in 
there. 

830
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:46,200
I mean I really doubted and that
was possible. 

831
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:50,700
But after going through masonry,
I there's no limit to what I can

832
00:54:50,700 --> 00:54:53,800
fit in there and be confident 
that I can recall. 

833
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:58,300
It that masonry also made me 
more confident and addressing 

834
00:54:58,700 --> 00:55:03,200
people public speaking. 
You know, because you're forced 

835
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:07,100
to get up and give answers in 
front of sometimes, you know, 

836
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:12,300
200 men that you don't know. 
But you you have to get to a 

837
00:55:12,300 --> 00:55:16,900
place where you're comfortable. 
With your opinions, whether 

838
00:55:17,300 --> 00:55:19,300
you're, you're going to piss 
somebody off. 

839
00:55:19,300 --> 00:55:23,000
No matter what you say. 
So figure out, just figure out 

840
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:26,200
how to articulate it. 
Don't worry about the responses,

841
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:28,900
but it's helped me a lot, I 
think. 

842
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:33,200
But earlier you, when you 
mention the cultural aspect of 

843
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:38,700
these uses Freemasonry, is this 
death and Resurrection ritual, 

844
00:55:38,700 --> 00:55:41,600
just like we see in, theurgy 
this death and Resurrection 

845
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:45,100
ritual. 
The way that these natives were 

846
00:55:45,100 --> 00:55:51,200
using, these entheogens were in 
the same context and they would 

847
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:56,800
drink different drugs. 
For each part of this degree 

848
00:55:56,800 --> 00:56:03,200
structure for each segment. 
This idea comes from first time 

849
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:06,300
I read it was this guy named 
Jeff Kent, Riley, the third, 

850
00:56:06,700 --> 00:56:10,500
absolutely brilliant. 
Researcher who holds an annual 

851
00:56:10,500 --> 00:56:13,200
or biannual conference at Texas 
University. 

852
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:18,300
T of different archaeologists 
and ethnologist and natives 

853
00:56:18,500 --> 00:56:21,500
trying to just make sense of all
of this Miss. 

854
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:28,100
What did Kevin Reilly do? 
He wrote about he was making the

855
00:56:28,100 --> 00:56:32,000
point that these are preliterate
people never mind that because 

856
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:34,800
you said f can't Riley, I said 
what did get look. 

857
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:36,500
Never mind. 
It was a stupid joke. 

858
00:56:36,500 --> 00:56:37,900
It was a dad joke. 
I'm a dad. 

859
00:56:37,900 --> 00:56:41,600
Now, what can I say you are? 
That's, that is a bad joke. 

860
00:56:43,500 --> 00:56:47,300
But he said, these are like 
prescription bottles. 

861
00:56:47,300 --> 00:56:50,000
The prescription bottle tells 
you what's in the, what's in the

862
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:54,000
bottle, and these different 
pots. 

863
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:57,300
Have different symbols on them. 
One will be a winged snake. 

864
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:02,400
That's one specific drug one 
will be a hand with an. 

865
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:04,600
I what looks like an i and the 
Palm. 

866
00:57:04,900 --> 00:57:07,800
It's not an i it's it's more 
like a vagina. 

867
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:11,000
It's or vulva. 
It's called a noogie, which is 

868
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:18,100
an old. 
It's a old English term for for 

869
00:57:18,100 --> 00:57:22,100
furniture that has curves on it.
But if you put the two together,

870
00:57:22,100 --> 00:57:26,800
you get the vesica piscis shape 
that reminds us of an eyeball on

871
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:27,600
my. 
Yeah. 

872
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:32,700
So somebody posted something a 
couple weeks ago about the 

873
00:57:32,700 --> 00:57:38,300
petroglyphs that show the Oggy 
And The American South and they 

874
00:57:38,300 --> 00:57:43,400
were saying that it looks very 
Celtic because there's that The 

875
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:46,000
hand with the eyes part of the 
Celtic. 

876
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:49,300
Do you think there's any chance?
Yeah, yeah. 

877
00:57:49,700 --> 00:57:53,400
So, it was all right and 
actually shout out we should 

878
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:54,800
have done this earlier but 
shout-out to dr. 

879
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:58,200
Greg Little, we've had them on 
the podcast five or six times. 

880
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:01,600
He's a wealth of knowledge. 
We've talked about Native 

881
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:03,500
American Mounds. 
We did a whole slide show up. 

882
00:58:03,500 --> 00:58:07,800
I sewed with them and a patreon.
We've done episode on Edgar 

883
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:12,300
Cayce episode on UFOs episode on
Atlantis episode, he knows so 

884
00:58:12,300 --> 00:58:15,500
much about So many different 
things pharmacology and 

885
00:58:15,500 --> 00:58:19,200
psychedelics you name it, but I 
know you've been content, you 

886
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:22,900
know, you've been in Cotton, you
know, then going back and forth 

887
00:58:22,900 --> 00:58:24,300
with him about a lot of this 
stuff. 

888
00:58:24,300 --> 00:58:27,300
And if you're on Twitter, yeah, 
exactly. 

889
00:58:27,300 --> 00:58:31,300
Pharmacology was this the last 
copy of his drug boat? 

890
00:58:31,700 --> 00:58:34,500
He if you're on Twitter, follow 
them on Twitter. 

891
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:39,400
Dr. Gregory little and he's just
posting Native American Mounds 

892
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:42,100
pretty much all day long so if 
you like that kind of stuff. 

893
00:58:42,900 --> 00:58:46,200
Highly recommend it, but yeah. 
So back to the Oogie. 

894
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:49,400
So you think it's just a 
universal symbol, but where do 

895
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:51,200
you think? 
I don't know. 

896
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:53,300
You don't. 
Okay then, let's sorry. 

897
00:58:53,500 --> 00:58:56,500
I didn't know. 
That's what. 

898
00:58:56,800 --> 00:59:01,000
So in Greg's book, when he's 
talking about that symbol. 

899
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:04,200
He says everybody, he asked, 
they would say, oh, the hand and

900
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:07,200
the eye, that's universal 
symbol, you know, he'd say, but 

901
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:09,500
what does it mean? 
And they'd say, oh, it's a 

902
00:59:09,500 --> 00:59:11,800
universal symbol, it shows up 
everywhere. 

903
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:17,200
As as though, that That tells 
you what it means but it was F 

904
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:20,500
can't Riley's group, that 
determined that finally figured 

905
00:59:20,500 --> 00:59:24,700
out what it means. 
And what it is is, remember I 

906
00:59:24,700 --> 00:59:28,400
said in theurgy, they have these
two portals in the sky. 

907
00:59:29,100 --> 00:59:35,700
One of those portals is as near 
the constellation of Orion, what

908
00:59:35,700 --> 00:59:39,600
the Greeks recognized as Orion 
but of course that's a great 

909
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:42,600
conception the natives. 
Don't see Orion when they look 

910
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:45,700
at the The sky. 
But they do see pictures. 

911
00:59:45,700 --> 00:59:51,800
They do see mids in the stars. 
And what they see at what those 

912
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:55,200
Orion's Belt, they see as a 
wrist that's been cut. 

913
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:59,200
Off of a hand, a severed hand, 
they call it the Chiefs hand. 

914
00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:01,000
That's right. 
That's right now, I remember. 

915
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:03,000
And that's what is hanging 
there. 

916
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:11,300
And and this in this native 
model once you die First off 

917
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:16,500
that, there's this serpent, the 
that rules, the sky during the 

918
01:00:16,500 --> 01:00:21,700
summer, he's this horned winged 
serpent that if he if you try to

919
01:00:21,700 --> 01:00:24,500
enter this portal during the 
summer, he will snatch you up 

920
01:00:24,500 --> 01:00:29,900
and take you to the underworld. 
So they don't even tell stories 

921
01:00:29,900 --> 01:00:34,100
about this serpent during the 
summer because he'll hear you, 

922
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:38,600
but during the winter in the 
serpent, is Scorpio they they 

923
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:41,900
see what What the Greeks saw as 
a scorpion, they see as this 

924
01:00:41,900 --> 01:00:47,400
winged snake, but in the winter,
it never comes above the Horizon

925
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:50,900
at night so you never see 
Scorpio during the winter. 

926
01:00:51,700 --> 01:00:54,700
So this is the time that they 
would do their funeral rites, 

927
01:00:54,700 --> 01:00:59,200
they would deflesh the bodies 
and store the bones until the 

928
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:04,400
right time, which was this 
winter solstice .8 and they'd 

929
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:08,800
take these bones up. 
We're going to talk about this 

930
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:15,900
after the There's some this is a
synchronicity, the only orb 

931
01:01:16,300 --> 01:01:19,200
thing I've seen in the sky 
actually took place within 

932
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:23,200
Scorpio. 
At the end of October, which was

933
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:25,600
kind of weird. 
You're saying what you're saying

934
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:27,600
right now? 
Because right now, right on the 

935
01:01:27,607 --> 01:01:29,100
horizon. 
But we'll talk about that later.

936
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:30,900
Sorry. 
Go ahead. 

937
01:01:31,100 --> 01:01:36,300
The funeral rites winter 
solstice So they do this funeral

938
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:40,300
in the winter. 
In this funeral is what they're 

939
01:01:40,300 --> 01:01:43,400
tall. 
If they are initiated, if they 

940
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:46,800
haven't been through it, they 
can do what's called a ghost 

941
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:50,500
Lodge and meet at. 
We went where somebody can fill 

942
01:01:50,500 --> 01:01:55,000
in for you and do it. 
So, they become psycho pumps. 

943
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:58,500
Basically, that guides the soul 
through this journey. 

944
01:01:58,900 --> 01:02:01,200
Cool. 
And there are at least two or 

945
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:05,200
three different Charters, where 
they're talking about how the 

946
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:08,800
soul has to be launched, like an
arrow shot. 

947
01:02:08,900 --> 01:02:14,600
Like an arrow, towards the 
Chiefs hand, and into the Oogie,

948
01:02:15,500 --> 01:02:20,500
or OG you'll see it pronounce 
different both ways once you get

949
01:02:20,500 --> 01:02:26,300
through there. 
That's how you get on the Milky 

950
01:02:26,300 --> 01:02:27,700
Way. 
The Milky Way is what they call 

951
01:02:27,700 --> 01:02:32,100
the path of souls. 
This is exactly what happens and

952
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:37,200
theurgy and there are different 
explanations for it, but in 

953
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:43,600
Plato, Plato talks about how the
ecliptic that will say, this is 

954
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:47,300
the ecliptic, the, which is 
where this planets, and the Sun 

955
01:02:47,300 --> 01:02:50,700
rises in the east and set in the
west, make their circle around 

956
01:02:50,700 --> 01:02:52,600
the earth, which would be here 
in the center. 

957
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:58,400
Well, Crossing that is the Milky
Way and it makes what Plato 

958
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:00,900
calls in X. 
Because if you see it from the 

959
01:03:00,900 --> 01:03:05,800
side, it's a big X. 
But as the Milky Way, is wrapped

960
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:08,600
around the ecliptic. 
Of course, there are two points 

961
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:13,200
for they connect those two 
points are those portals and 

962
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:16,200
porphyry calls them the gates of
the moon and the gates of 

963
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:20,700
Saturn, because he's 
Hellenistic, he's using tropical

964
01:03:20,700 --> 01:03:26,400
astrology, and he fixes things 
and just like, tropical 

965
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:32,400
astrology uses fixed positions. 
So he fixes them, and they're 

966
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:34,400
actually in the Wrong places and
porphyry. 

967
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:38,500
Manila is correct him and says, 
you know, where they actually 

968
01:03:38,500 --> 01:03:40,700
are and manila's? 
Is he? 

969
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:43,700
What the explanation? 
He gives is identical to the one

970
01:03:43,700 --> 01:03:48,200
you read in Egyptian Book of the
Dead and the coffin texts and 

971
01:03:48,300 --> 01:03:52,200
the pyramid texts as well as in 
Babylonian systems. 

972
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:56,800
One gate is near Taurus. 
One gate is near Scorpio, 

973
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:01,800
there's a great monograph by a 
researcher named, George latura 

974
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:08,300
Becky, Called visible Gates. 
And Pagan Skies order that if 

975
01:04:08,300 --> 01:04:10,900
you don't have it, it's super 
cheap. 

976
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:15,300
It has everything. 
But the Native American model, 

977
01:04:15,300 --> 01:04:17,500
because I don't think he was 
aware of it, but it goes through

978
01:04:17,500 --> 01:04:23,700
the Greek Egyptian and 
Babylonian models and shows how 

979
01:04:24,100 --> 01:04:27,300
they're all about getting into 
this gate and onto the Milky 

980
01:04:27,300 --> 01:04:30,500
Way. 
But that's what they're doing 

981
01:04:30,500 --> 01:04:33,900
with this. 
So it's the natives, they're 

982
01:04:33,900 --> 01:04:37,900
waiting until winter and then 
they perform this ritual and 

983
01:04:37,900 --> 01:04:45,000
they face West and right before 
Sunrise, Orion the Chiefs hand 

984
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:50,700
becomes to the Horizon. 
And it's almost like the way the

985
01:04:50,700 --> 01:04:56,000
Egyptians put it is Osiris. 
The Orion is Osiris for them, 

986
01:04:56,000 --> 01:05:01,300
Osiris is standing on the Earth.
The Earth and that's when you 

987
01:05:01,300 --> 01:05:06,300
assume the form of Orion of 
Osiris, and then you can enter 

988
01:05:06,300 --> 01:05:10,500
the underworld with him. 
Assuming the form is like, if 

989
01:05:10,500 --> 01:05:12,900
you're familiar with the Golden 
Dawn, they have Assumption of 

990
01:05:12,900 --> 01:05:16,200
God forms, which is basically 
you imagining, right? 

991
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:19,700
That you are this deity sitting 
in positions like him. 

992
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:25,000
So they're becoming this way, 
natives are shooting themselves 

993
01:05:25,300 --> 01:05:29,600
into it and that's interesting. 
And for another reason because 

994
01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:34,400
like in Cahokia, they would bury
the dead with these tiny little 

995
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:38,400
arrow points that are impossible
to shoot their they're less than

996
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:44,400
an inch long but they're carved 
in the shapes of morning. 

997
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:47,500
Glory and debt to relieves I'm 
not making this up. 

998
01:05:47,900 --> 01:05:52,800
This is from Timothy pocket. 
Etz new book because I don't 

999
01:05:52,800 --> 01:06:01,300
believe you, bro. 
I get that a lot but pocket tet.

1000
01:06:01,300 --> 01:06:05,800
He he just wrote this book 
called gods of thunder and shows

1001
01:06:07,300 --> 01:06:12,300
side by side these points with 
these leaves, the souls are 

1002
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:16,800
represented by these arrowheads 
and the arrowheads represent 

1003
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:21,600
psychedelic plants. 
Cool, they shoot it. 

1004
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:27,200
The soul is to be shot like an 
arrow into that, constellation 

1005
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:30,600
into the hole. 
Once it goes through, there it 

1006
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:35,000
goes down, a little ways because
the way the way the Milky Way 

1007
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:38,500
moves isn't, it's not like a 
perfect cross this way, it's an 

1008
01:06:38,500 --> 01:06:40,200
angle. 
So you got to go down a little 

1009
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:43,500
ways and then you jump off, you 
take an exit and get on the 

1010
01:06:43,500 --> 01:06:48,400
Milky Way and it takes you all 
the way around to the ecliptic 

1011
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:51,300
where the sun rises. 
So you're you're entering the 

1012
01:06:51,300 --> 01:06:55,100
West riding the Milky Way Around
coming up with the sun and the 

1013
01:06:55,100 --> 01:07:00,000
ecliptic where you meet this 
This bird figure at the top of 

1014
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:02,400
the heavens, which is the cygnus
constellation. 

1015
01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:07,200
This is mainly what Greg Littles
book is about. 

1016
01:07:09,100 --> 01:07:12,100
This process. 
Each of these figures were 

1017
01:07:12,100 --> 01:07:15,600
talking about the hand with the 
eye, the Birdman symbol. 

1018
01:07:15,700 --> 01:07:19,200
All of these are on different 
cups, symbols on different cups,

1019
01:07:19,500 --> 01:07:22,500
according to Riley, different 
drugs. 

1020
01:07:22,500 --> 01:07:27,300
Go in each one of them. 
So, when you join this sodality,

1021
01:07:27,300 --> 01:07:30,800
this little, this medicine 
society, which is so it's only 

1022
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:36,600
the M we win for the Ojibwe, but
medicine, sodality is existed 

1023
01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:39,100
in. 
Lots of different cultures. 

1024
01:07:39,100 --> 01:07:44,000
And one of the main ones that 
that Georgie Lankford talks 

1025
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:48,400
about is the Moundville medicine
society and Moundville is where 

1026
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:51,100
all of these symbols show up and
it looks like they're using 

1027
01:07:51,300 --> 01:07:53,500
malmö malmö becomes a 
necropolis. 

1028
01:07:54,100 --> 01:07:58,000
It's a booming City like Cahokia
or Spiro, but eventually, they 

1029
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:02,200
stopped building people move 
away and they only meet their 

1030
01:08:02,300 --> 01:08:05,800
for funerals. 
The people doing the funerals 

1031
01:08:05,900 --> 01:08:11,100
are the secret, Piety that know 
how to get there, how to get to 

1032
01:08:11,100 --> 01:08:16,899
the lodge in the sky basically? 
But each of the pots. 

1033
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:20,800
So you take your first degree, 
you're going to, it's going to 

1034
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:23,500
have to do with the first step 
on that path. 

1035
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:26,800
The going the hand and the eye 
and that's on several of these 

1036
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:31,899
pots. 
You take the next step, it 

1037
01:08:31,899 --> 01:08:35,800
depends on the region, some of 
them have dogs that you have to 

1038
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:41,200
deal with in between and some of
them have snakes that you have 

1039
01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:46,700
to coax with magic words and to 
laying down and becoming a log 

1040
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:49,200
Bridge. 
So you could cross this River. 

1041
01:08:50,500 --> 01:08:54,600
But what we're seeing with these
pots with these images on them 

1042
01:08:54,700 --> 01:08:59,100
are literally descriptions of 
not only the Place. 

1043
01:08:59,100 --> 01:09:01,600
They're meant to propel you to 
the experience. 

1044
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:04,800
They're meant to induce, but 
also the drug they contain. 

1045
01:09:05,500 --> 01:09:10,000
So, when you talk about cultural
side of this, it's very rich in.

1046
01:09:10,100 --> 01:09:13,800
And it's a death culture, it's a
funeral culture, it's an 

1047
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:22,800
ancestral kind of culture. 
Yeah, it's fascinating Leah. 

1048
01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:24,600
I know you got to get out of 
here soon. 

1049
01:09:24,700 --> 01:09:28,600
Did you have any specific 
questions for PD before you 

1050
01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:32,100
bounce out? 
You know honestly I do it partly

1051
01:09:32,100 --> 01:09:34,500
because very candidly this is an
area. 

1052
01:09:35,300 --> 01:09:37,399
A much about. 
Although I'm loving the 

1053
01:09:37,399 --> 01:09:40,399
discussion about how some of 
this maps to Western esotericism

1054
01:09:40,399 --> 01:09:45,800
and very much a child of the 
rosicrucians at the AAA of Oto, 

1055
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:49,800
etcetera, Etc. 
So, that's really fascinating. 

1056
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:52,700
For me, I'm always extremely 
fascinated by the perennials 

1057
01:09:52,700 --> 01:09:56,100
nature of so, many of these 
things, and how this shows up, 

1058
01:09:56,100 --> 01:10:00,200
whether it's in everything from 
DNT and Ayahuasca experiences 

1059
01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:05,600
through deliberate practices. 
But I also, I did I want to 

1060
01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:09,600
personally say a couple things 
about something you talked about

1061
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:13,200
earlier, which is about the kind
of violence and cruelty 

1062
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:17,200
associated with non-consent, 
really disrupting people's 

1063
01:10:17,200 --> 01:10:21,200
ontology. 
And this is something as I've 

1064
01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:25,900
gotten deeper and deeper into my
own practices of both formal and

1065
01:10:25,900 --> 01:10:33,800
informal nature. 
These are insights and learnings

1066
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:39,600
or knowledge that unwind core 
parts of one's identity. 

1067
01:10:40,100 --> 01:10:44,800
It sort of reminds me of an ego 
death experience where Having 

1068
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:48,200
had them. 
I understand that now completely

1069
01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:50,800
how and why these ego death? 
Or you go into solution 

1070
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:54,600
experiences, or sort of 
ontological breakdowns, are 

1071
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:57,900
extraordinarily traumatic for 
people that are particularly 

1072
01:10:59,300 --> 01:11:03,100
wedded to materialist 
interpretations of reality or 

1073
01:11:03,100 --> 01:11:08,700
also are fundamentally. 
Unprepared for how Monumental 

1074
01:11:08,700 --> 01:11:12,000
these experiences can be. 
But I will also say, on the 

1075
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:13,900
other side of that, be good side
of that. 

1076
01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:16,700
Is that if you are ready for 
these experiences or you think 

1077
01:11:16,700 --> 01:11:21,100
you're ready, there are some of 
the most overwhelmingly 

1078
01:11:21,700 --> 01:11:27,500
incredible and ecstatic and 
numinous experiences available 

1079
01:11:27,500 --> 01:11:30,300
to The Human Experience. 
And I can say, pretty 

1080
01:11:30,300 --> 01:11:33,100
categorically, as someone, who 
was on that like atheist 

1081
01:11:33,100 --> 01:11:36,100
materialist, whatever, starting 
place all the way. 

1082
01:11:36,300 --> 01:11:39,800
You threw like deep blue like 
living probably 90% in that 

1083
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:45,900
universe and 10% in like the 
real world, it's a it makes you 

1084
01:11:45,900 --> 01:11:47,700
feel like you're seeing in color
for the first time. 

1085
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:52,200
It's completely worth it. 
So I just I just say all of that

1086
01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:54,100
to say that so much of what 
you're saying resonates. 

1087
01:11:54,100 --> 01:11:57,200
I feel like I'm learning so much
just from listening to you and I

1088
01:11:57,200 --> 01:11:59,600
genuinely hope that our paths 
cross in the future because I'd 

1089
01:11:59,600 --> 01:12:01,400
love to talk to you more about 
this work. 

1090
01:12:02,500 --> 01:12:04,200
Oh well, thank you like that 
one. 

1091
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:07,500
That that's that's what I do it 
for is, you know, like Lily's 

1092
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:10,800
Leary said, meet the others, 
find the others. 

1093
01:12:11,100 --> 01:12:15,900
Yeah you do I do this to find 
the others for a genuine sense 

1094
01:12:15,900 --> 01:12:22,200
of kinship and it is special. 
Yes, very, very special. 

1095
01:12:22,200 --> 01:12:25,000
Thank you so much for facility 
and you're afraid, you're 

1096
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:27,000
welcome. 
Every time we do one of these, 

1097
01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:29,800
you're welcome. 
I mean, whatever we can fit. 

1098
01:12:29,900 --> 01:12:34,100
Oh my people. 
I will certainly be back for the

1099
01:12:34,100 --> 01:12:36,700
next round. 
Both of you gentlemen, enjoy 

1100
01:12:36,700 --> 01:12:38,500
your evening. 
Thank you so much for having me.

1101
01:12:38,500 --> 01:12:41,500
Again, of course. 
So yeah. 

1102
01:12:41,500 --> 01:12:45,000
And if anybody's interested you 
can, please follow me on Twitter

1103
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:49,100
at Lea Prime I have her link to 
her website down below. 

1104
01:12:49,100 --> 01:12:51,900
She does an excellent series on 
her YouTube channel called The 

1105
01:12:51,900 --> 01:12:55,500
Invisible night school where 
they go through the UFO UAP 

1106
01:12:55,500 --> 01:12:59,600
phenomenon take you know they 
look at skeptical approaches on 

1107
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:02,300
top of you know some of the 
Believers and kind of see What's

1108
01:13:02,300 --> 01:13:05,100
going on? 
It's a really interesting format

1109
01:13:05,100 --> 01:13:08,500
and then also she does a sub 
stack that you should check out 

1110
01:13:08,500 --> 01:13:11,100
as well so but yeah, thank you 
so much again, Leah. 

1111
01:13:11,100 --> 01:13:14,500
And I'm sure the Mind Escape 
listeners will see you sooner 

1112
01:13:14,500 --> 01:13:17,200
than later. 
Take care gentlemen. 

1113
01:13:22,500 --> 01:13:27,300
So, yeah, so in terms of what we
were talking about, so we're 

1114
01:13:27,300 --> 01:13:28,900
talking about like path of 
souls. 

1115
01:13:30,500 --> 01:13:32,400
You know, you were talking about
the metaphysics. 

1116
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:36,500
And again, if you're looking for
visual of what PD was, 

1117
01:13:36,500 --> 01:13:40,100
describing, we actually we did a
slide show up. 

1118
01:13:40,100 --> 01:13:42,600
Sewed with dr. 
Greg Little a couple of years 

1119
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:47,200
ago but we did a patreon segment
specifically on the metaphysics 

1120
01:13:47,300 --> 01:13:50,200
of Native Americans specifically
kind of what he's talking about.

1121
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:55,600
And the Oggy and the hand and 
the underworld. 

1122
01:13:55,600 --> 01:13:58,700
And you know, there's actually 
some visual representation of 

1123
01:13:58,700 --> 01:14:00,000
that too. 
I think we so if you're 

1124
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:01,600
interested you can go check that
out. 

1125
01:14:02,700 --> 01:14:08,000
But yeah, I mean I think that 
for me the most interesting 

1126
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:10,100
aspect of all this is the 
crossover, right? 

1127
01:14:10,100 --> 01:14:15,300
Like obviously different 
cultures and tribes and peoples,

1128
01:14:15,300 --> 01:14:19,300
had groups have different takes 
on different things, but this 

1129
01:14:19,300 --> 01:14:23,800
missile osca Ideas interesting 
to me from the standpoint that 

1130
01:14:25,300 --> 01:14:28,800
so I mean I'm sure, you know, 
I'm fascinated with Soma, we've 

1131
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:31,200
been doing a series on it and I 
talked about it on a lot of 

1132
01:14:31,208 --> 01:14:33,800
episodes, as well as the 
loosening Mysteries and all that

1133
01:14:33,800 --> 01:14:38,100
kind of stuff. 
With the Soma stuff, you have a 

1134
01:14:38,100 --> 01:14:42,100
migration break off, which the 
indo-iranian break off, which 

1135
01:14:42,100 --> 01:14:45,900
some go to Northwest India, 
create the rig Veda, The Vedic, 

1136
01:14:45,900 --> 01:14:49,500
cultures, and create Soma, and 
then you have the other break 

1137
01:14:49,500 --> 01:14:52,500
off going towards Iran. 
And they end up creating the 

1138
01:14:52,500 --> 01:14:57,200
avesta and they have Houma, or 
how much now. 

1139
01:14:57,300 --> 01:15:00,100
Yeah. 
So when you have something like 

1140
01:15:00,100 --> 01:15:02,900
that, it's hard. 
Not to believe that that's not 

1141
01:15:02,900 --> 01:15:07,600
happening in other places in the
world with antigenic and 

1142
01:15:07,700 --> 01:15:10,400
traditions. 
Second you move or migrate to a 

1143
01:15:10,407 --> 01:15:14,100
new area or ecosystem or 
whatever you have different 

1144
01:15:14,100 --> 01:15:17,400
flora and fungi and different 
things available. 

1145
01:15:18,300 --> 01:15:22,900
So, is that do you think that 
Maybe these people migrated up 

1146
01:15:22,900 --> 01:15:25,300
through South America because I 
know from talking with dr. 

1147
01:15:25,300 --> 01:15:28,100
Greg, some of the Mounds in 
South America are way older than

1148
01:15:28,100 --> 01:15:31,600
the North American mounds. 
And in South America, we have 

1149
01:15:31,900 --> 01:15:36,600
clear evidence of San Pedro. 
Use going back. 3,000 years. 

1150
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:43,200
They found that fox snout pouch 
that had bufotenin and harmelin,

1151
01:15:43,200 --> 01:15:49,000
and coca leaves in the southwest
and particularly a place called 

1152
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:56,100
Choco Choco Canyon. 
They found an entire cache of 

1153
01:15:56,200 --> 01:15:59,000
these. 
Oh, by the way, there's a 

1154
01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:02,500
documentary on Netflix right now
called shots about Chaco Canyon,

1155
01:16:02,500 --> 01:16:04,200
if anybody had a flex check it 
out. 

1156
01:16:04,200 --> 01:16:06,500
It's fucking awesome. 
I remember in high school 

1157
01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:10,200
learning about the sun dagger, 
the way that they track the 

1158
01:16:10,200 --> 01:16:13,500
movements and the solstices and 
everything like the sun peeks in

1159
01:16:13,500 --> 01:16:15,600
this one little spot once a 
year. 

1160
01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:16,800
It's pretty fascinating. 
Anyway. 

1161
01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:18,800
Sorry Co-op. 
It's amazing. 

1162
01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:23,900
Amazing and Timothy Pocket at 
calls, it Cahokia as lunar twin 

1163
01:16:24,200 --> 01:16:29,800
because they based a lot of ther
building orientations on Lunesta

1164
01:16:29,800 --> 01:16:33,200
C's, which is like a solstice 
but it's the lunar version. 

1165
01:16:33,200 --> 01:16:38,800
It's a 18.6 year cycle that they
had figured out and kept up with

1166
01:16:38,800 --> 01:16:43,300
and it looks like they believe 
that cycle had something to do 

1167
01:16:43,300 --> 01:16:48,500
with rain cycles and their 
ability to grow Maize. 

1168
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:56,200
But They found a cache of 
cylinder jars at Chaco. 

1169
01:16:57,400 --> 01:17:00,400
When they tested them, they were
positive for Coco. 

1170
01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:04,900
Now Coco is Central, American, 
ultimately South Americans. 

1171
01:17:04,900 --> 01:17:08,400
Some point south Americans 
brought them up and planted them

1172
01:17:08,400 --> 01:17:11,300
and Central America and they 
were able to grow their butt. 

1173
01:17:12,600 --> 01:17:18,000
They found cylinder jars that 
were identical to the ones used 

1174
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:21,800
in South and Central America for
this cocoa ritual that they 

1175
01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:28,000
would do not only that they 
found mummified macaws McCall, 

1176
01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:31,100
birds South American and Central
American the red parrot. 

1177
01:17:31,100 --> 01:17:36,100
Looking birds they found there. 
So we know they were coming up 

1178
01:17:36,100 --> 01:17:43,200
from the South but through DNA 
evidence and through. 

1179
01:17:45,600 --> 01:17:48,900
Geological evidence. 
We also know they were coming in

1180
01:17:48,900 --> 01:17:54,000
through the north from Mongolia 
in Siberia, after the Bering 

1181
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:57,900
Strait and entering that way. 
So it's both, I mean, they're 

1182
01:17:57,900 --> 01:18:06,300
coming from both sides and when 
you compare, The metaphysics of 

1183
01:18:06,300 --> 01:18:09,200
all of these Southeastern 
Southwestern natives, they're 

1184
01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:13,200
remarkably similar, when you 
compare them to what was what's 

1185
01:18:13,200 --> 01:18:16,600
being described about what was 
happening in Siberia and 

1186
01:18:16,600 --> 01:18:20,600
Mongolia the tungus tribe, it is
overwhelming. 

1187
01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:27,900
There's even a book on it by 
ground, where he looks at Ojibwe

1188
01:18:27,900 --> 01:18:29,400
me. 
Did we win that ceremony? 

1189
01:18:29,400 --> 01:18:35,000
We were talking about in terms 
of Siberian, Shamanism /, 

1190
01:18:36,100 --> 01:18:39,100
Mercia, eliade, and even more 
recent. 

1191
01:18:39,900 --> 01:18:42,000
So what do you think about that?
What do you think about the 

1192
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:49,500
whole? 
Amanita muscaria, potentially 

1193
01:18:49,500 --> 01:18:56,800
being obviously the the Siberian
shamans supposedly used it is 

1194
01:18:56,800 --> 01:18:58,800
used. 
It's used in the Native American

1195
01:18:58,800 --> 01:19:01,900
systems also, right? 
So, so, but what do you think 

1196
01:19:01,900 --> 01:19:09,500
about that as a compound being 
Is being, you know, some 

1197
01:19:09,500 --> 01:19:12,600
obviously, some people point so 
much because of Wasson, I don't 

1198
01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:15,500
think that's the case, but stuff
like that. 

1199
01:19:15,500 --> 01:19:18,600
Like I've never had. 
I've tried Amanita twice. 

1200
01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:23,500
I try to Ting Catcher And I 
tried eating some dried caps 

1201
01:19:23,500 --> 01:19:26,000
because you have to 
decarboxylate it to convert the.

1202
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:28,800
I botanic acid in the musket 
ball or else you're doing 

1203
01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:36,100
yourself, a neurotoxic this 
pleasure you can't just eat 

1204
01:19:36,100 --> 01:19:38,100
them. 
You can Hand, but it's not gonna

1205
01:19:38,100 --> 01:19:42,000
be pleasant the way to the way 
to do it. 

1206
01:19:42,100 --> 01:19:46,000
And Clark Heinrich did the best 
job of describing how to use 

1207
01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:47,600
them. 
That I know of in his book, 

1208
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:51,900
magic mushrooms, and religion 
and Alchemy, he wrote the 

1209
01:19:51,900 --> 01:19:55,600
forward to my first book but he 
talks about how it's an 

1210
01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:57,800
alchemical process. 
They have to. 

1211
01:19:58,200 --> 01:20:03,100
Not only do you have to choose 
mature specimens because as they

1212
01:20:03,100 --> 01:20:06,800
age, they convert some of that I
bitonic acid. 

1213
01:20:06,900 --> 01:20:11,100
And to muscimol, they also have 
to be dried once they're dried. 

1214
01:20:11,100 --> 01:20:14,100
More is converted. 
Then they have to be heated. 

1215
01:20:14,200 --> 01:20:17,100
Yeah, like a cracker. 
Try to not like kind of dry. 

1216
01:20:17,100 --> 01:20:20,300
They have to be like Cracker dry
or School. 

1217
01:20:20,300 --> 01:20:23,800
Yep. 
Fired is what the way he says, 

1218
01:20:23,800 --> 01:20:26,800
they have to be fired. 
And then after that, then you 

1219
01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:31,300
make a tea with it, which helps 
convert even more. 

1220
01:20:31,300 --> 01:20:35,100
So the the name of the game is 
converting I bitonic acid to 

1221
01:20:35,100 --> 01:20:41,700
muscimol. 
And you know as far as the net 

1222
01:20:41,900 --> 01:20:46,800
the identification of Soma we'll
probably never know what Soma 

1223
01:20:46,800 --> 01:20:50,600
was but there have been a lot of
really great arguments, Watson 

1224
01:20:50,600 --> 01:20:53,100
has some great points. 
He has some really shitty 

1225
01:20:53,100 --> 01:20:55,900
points, Chris Bennett has some 
great points. 

1226
01:20:56,100 --> 01:21:01,500
He has some points that I'm 
like, not so much but Chris is 

1227
01:21:01,500 --> 01:21:05,200
book is brilliant. 
If you haven't read his book and

1228
01:21:05,200 --> 01:21:07,700
you're still on the fence about 
the something you have to read 

1229
01:21:07,700 --> 01:21:08,700
it. 
Yeah. 

1230
01:21:09,100 --> 01:21:13,200
But and there's another cannabis
in the Soma solution. 

1231
01:21:13,700 --> 01:21:15,700
And yeah, we had him on his 
part. 

1232
01:21:15,700 --> 01:21:19,900
One of these what was Soma 
series part two with Matthew 

1233
01:21:19,900 --> 01:21:24,300
Clark, who has the Ayahuasca 
analog hypothesis? 

1234
01:21:24,300 --> 01:21:27,900
He has. 
So and he, but he's the one that

1235
01:21:27,900 --> 01:21:31,900
told me, he didn't think that 
the in strands of Acacia didn't 

1236
01:21:31,900 --> 01:21:33,600
have DMT in them. 
So I don't know. 

1237
01:21:33,600 --> 01:21:37,400
I mean again, that's that what 
that's what makes your research,

1238
01:21:37,400 --> 01:21:39,800
that's much more appealing to me
is you're willing to actually 

1239
01:21:39,800 --> 01:21:43,000
try these compounds and 
concoctions, you know what I'm 

1240
01:21:43,008 --> 01:21:44,300
saying? 
Like if you wrote a book on the 

1241
01:21:44,300 --> 01:21:45,900
Lusitania Mysteries I have no 
doubt. 

1242
01:21:45,900 --> 01:21:48,100
You'd be out there trying to 
figure out how to get all the 

1243
01:21:48,100 --> 01:21:51,400
neurotoxic shit out of the our 
guy. 

1244
01:21:52,500 --> 01:21:55,900
So we've already been been 
slowly working with her gum 

1245
01:21:55,900 --> 01:22:00,400
blaring. 
I'm sure what to do, but he's at

1246
01:22:00,700 --> 01:22:03,800
Only wrong. 
I appreciate what you? 

1247
01:22:03,800 --> 01:22:07,900
What you doing, Matthew? 
But there are absolutely active,

1248
01:22:08,000 --> 01:22:10,900
Acacia species and a lotta is 
active. 

1249
01:22:12,300 --> 01:22:15,200
If you don't believe me, try 10 
grams with some pig. 

1250
01:22:15,200 --> 01:22:18,400
What about mama, and call from, 
from my own research on the, 

1251
01:22:18,400 --> 01:22:20,400
some of things I don't want to 
go too much into this because we

1252
01:22:20,400 --> 01:22:24,600
were focusing on other stuff, 
but my takeaway was so much just

1253
01:22:24,600 --> 01:22:29,000
meant psychedelic along with 
ceremony or ritual. 

1254
01:22:29,100 --> 01:22:33,400
Kind of like saying, it's like, 
Adela Theory, they might curly 

1255
01:22:33,400 --> 01:22:36,100
wrote secret drugs and Buddhism 
and he's got another book coming

1256
01:22:36,100 --> 01:22:37,800
out. 
I think old psychedelic Buddhism

1257
01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:42,100
but he doesn't, he's not talking
about Soma, he is but he ties it

1258
01:22:42,100 --> 01:22:47,000
into Amrita. 
And and, and his argument Amrita

1259
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:51,400
is any substance that will 
induce a numinous experience. 

1260
01:22:51,500 --> 01:22:53,800
Well, I take it back to I've 
read that book. 

1261
01:22:53,900 --> 01:22:56,100
I didn't get that take away 
from. 

1262
01:22:56,100 --> 01:22:58,100
I mean, I I'm not disagreeing 
with what you're saying. 

1263
01:22:58,100 --> 01:23:03,000
I'm just saying My point is 
though is like what I was saying

1264
01:23:03,000 --> 01:23:05,100
about Soma, how you have the 
brake off? 

1265
01:23:05,300 --> 01:23:09,200
Well, there's no way that the 
part of that those people landed

1266
01:23:09,200 --> 01:23:12,400
in, during the indo-iranian 
migrations the people that 

1267
01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:14,800
landed in Iran are not going to 
have the same floor as the 

1268
01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:16,400
people that landed Northwest 
India. 

1269
01:23:16,600 --> 01:23:18,500
So what you have to make do with
what? 

1270
01:23:18,800 --> 01:23:24,800
Yeah with eons of use and in 
dealing with nomadic cultures, 

1271
01:23:24,800 --> 01:23:28,900
spontaneously nomadic cultures 
and climate changes. 

1272
01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:32,500
It's not going to be the same 
drug. 

1273
01:23:32,500 --> 01:23:35,300
There are going to be what, Carl
rub called surrogates. 

1274
01:23:35,300 --> 01:23:38,400
They're going to find a 
surrogate for what they once had

1275
01:23:38,400 --> 01:23:43,300
but no longer do. 
So when it comes to Soma I truly

1276
01:23:43,300 --> 01:23:48,900
believe it's a number of things 
depending on which people which 

1277
01:23:48,900 --> 01:23:54,200
time you know which location 
they found that mural to those 

1278
01:23:54,200 --> 01:23:57,400
Russian archaeologists found 
that mural of two people holding

1279
01:23:57,400 --> 01:23:58,000
them. 
Yeah. 

1280
01:23:58,000 --> 01:24:00,200
The mushroom over the fire, 
whatever. 

1281
01:24:01,000 --> 01:24:03,500
Which in the Mongolian. 
That's right there, with this 

1282
01:24:03,800 --> 01:24:07,300
Siberian, kind of a movement. 
I don't know, if you've read 

1283
01:24:07,300 --> 01:24:11,200
Peter, kingsley's book a story 
waiting to pierce you read that.

1284
01:24:11,200 --> 01:24:16,000
If you haven't, it ties the 
whole Mongolian Siberian 

1285
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:19,600
shamanic thread into theurgy and
Precinct. 

1286
01:24:19,600 --> 01:24:23,900
Mainly pre-socratic, Greek 
philosophy Is that real to the 

1287
01:24:23,900 --> 01:24:26,600
fact that the Siberian shamans 
drink? 

1288
01:24:26,600 --> 01:24:29,300
The reindeer piss is that, or is
that a true at all? 

1289
01:24:29,800 --> 01:24:34,800
I've never been So I can, yeah, 
I don't, I take everything with 

1290
01:24:34,800 --> 01:24:39,300
with a Shaker of salt. 
Yeah, I mean that try it myself 

1291
01:24:39,300 --> 01:24:41,200
and I'm not about to drink some 
reindeer. 

1292
01:24:42,600 --> 01:24:47,400
I got some I harvest. 
Every year we get a Manny, the 

1293
01:24:47,900 --> 01:24:51,600
university, no insurance, which 
are our of, or what's the one 

1294
01:24:52,500 --> 01:24:56,300
stamets was talking about his? 
I think it was panthera and 

1295
01:24:56,300 --> 01:24:59,700
Medina. 
Oh yeah, Panther. 

1296
01:24:59,700 --> 01:25:01,700
Yeah. 
From when he was talking about 

1297
01:25:01,700 --> 01:25:06,600
but he hit that sounded like not
the most pleasant experience and

1298
01:25:06,600 --> 01:25:09,100
I don't work. 
If you're if you're if you're 

1299
01:25:09,100 --> 01:25:11,900
ready to commit suicide, because
life is so terrible. 

1300
01:25:12,200 --> 01:25:15,900
By all means eat some Panther 
Arena first, but I wouldn't do 

1301
01:25:15,900 --> 01:25:17,800
it unless it was something like 
that. 

1302
01:25:18,700 --> 01:25:21,700
But the pissed thing, you know, 
that even shows up in Native 

1303
01:25:21,700 --> 01:25:26,400
American teachings in the 
Ojibwe, there was an Ojibwe, an 

1304
01:25:26,400 --> 01:25:31,200
elder of the crane Clan of the 
Ojibwe named key, wady Of quay 

1305
01:25:31,500 --> 01:25:35,400
Pascal. 
She wrote a couple of books that

1306
01:25:35,400 --> 01:25:40,900
are extremely rare. 
They used copies sell for $1000.

1307
01:25:41,300 --> 01:25:43,900
But in this, she tells the story
of Miss Quade. 

1308
01:25:43,900 --> 01:25:46,100
Oh, and it's these, two brothers
ones. 

1309
01:25:46,100 --> 01:25:52,100
Depressed ones, not the one that
isn't disappears and comes back.

1310
01:25:52,100 --> 01:25:54,800
And it turns out that he's been 
eating these red mushrooms with 

1311
01:25:54,800 --> 01:25:59,500
white spots and he tells them 
that if they'll drink his urine,

1312
01:25:59,900 --> 01:26:03,200
it's been So long to read the 
actual story but it's says drink

1313
01:26:03,200 --> 01:26:05,900
the urine and you'll you'll be 
happy you won't be sad. 

1314
01:26:05,900 --> 01:26:07,200
You want me to press like you 
are. 

1315
01:26:07,200 --> 01:26:11,400
If you drink this urine, Watson 
quotes it at one point. 

1316
01:26:11,900 --> 01:26:13,900
I was totally dismissive of 
this. 

1317
01:26:13,900 --> 01:26:16,500
I thought who in the hell is 
this? 

1318
01:26:16,900 --> 01:26:20,500
You know, she, what she read 
Wasson and now she just wants to

1319
01:26:20,900 --> 01:26:22,800
claim this for the Native 
Americans. 

1320
01:26:23,200 --> 01:26:29,900
No, she's she's dead serious. 
I mean I haven't found other 

1321
01:26:29,900 --> 01:26:34,600
tellings of the mosquito story 
but I found other examples of 

1322
01:26:34,600 --> 01:26:40,200
Amanita muscaria use. 
There's one in this book. 

1323
01:26:40,400 --> 01:26:44,400
Both of these books here 
Chippewa Customs which the 

1324
01:26:44,400 --> 01:26:48,200
Chippewa Chippewa is the other 
pronunciation pronunciation of 

1325
01:26:48,200 --> 01:26:50,900
Ojibwa G block. 
Chip waffle. 

1326
01:26:51,000 --> 01:26:54,400
Is that the try? 
Think that's was my area to 

1327
01:26:54,400 --> 01:26:57,200
Michigan or what was that? 
Maybe they should get in Troy 

1328
01:26:57,300 --> 01:27:00,800
Michigan Minnesota. 
The, the Great Lakes region. 

1329
01:27:01,100 --> 01:27:05,600
Yeah. 
Yeah, but that's not because we 

1330
01:27:05,600 --> 01:27:07,700
have a lot of chips in Michigan.
There's a lot of Chippewa. 

1331
01:27:07,700 --> 01:27:09,400
A lot of schools are named 
Chippewa. 

1332
01:27:09,400 --> 01:27:17,200
There's a lot of Chippewa stuff.
I can see that I think my 

1333
01:27:17,200 --> 01:27:22,000
screens lagging a little bit, 
but this is Wisconsin chip 

1334
01:27:22,700 --> 01:27:28,100
sales, both of those books talk 
about the use of mnd, damask 

1335
01:27:28,100 --> 01:27:36,100
area, one for a love potion, 
another talks about the shaman 

1336
01:27:36,100 --> 01:27:39,900
who like to burn them and 
breathe the smoke. 

1337
01:27:40,500 --> 01:27:45,000
And then there's a third example
where, when they die, Die. 

1338
01:27:45,000 --> 01:27:49,200
They are taking the mushroom 
powdering, it and mixing it with

1339
01:27:49,200 --> 01:27:53,700
that same Vermillion Hunters 
powder and painting mushrooms on

1340
01:27:53,700 --> 01:27:56,300
their face. 
And this is allegedly how they 

1341
01:27:56,300 --> 01:28:01,600
paint all of their dead at this 
time, with, with pili, I the 

1342
01:28:01,600 --> 01:28:04,500
mushroom caps here and then 
stems going this way. 

1343
01:28:06,100 --> 01:28:09,400
So, that's it. 
That's three examples of Amanita

1344
01:28:09,400 --> 01:28:12,600
muscaria through four of them 
and need a mascara use within 

1345
01:28:12,600 --> 01:28:15,300
the Ojibwe. 
I do, when I go Camping is 

1346
01:28:15,300 --> 01:28:17,300
either Northern Michigan they're
everywhere. 

1347
01:28:17,300 --> 01:28:19,900
You can't walk through the woods
that's eating a ton of the 

1348
01:28:19,900 --> 01:28:26,400
Amanita but yeah I mean I'm just
trying to think my experience 

1349
01:28:26,400 --> 01:28:35,000
though does not Reconcile a lot 
of what I've read from like the 

1350
01:28:35,000 --> 01:28:36,800
rigveda. 
Like if you're saying that Soma 

1351
01:28:36,800 --> 01:28:40,800
was you know, Amanita, I don't 
buy. 

1352
01:28:40,800 --> 01:28:43,700
I don't really make that 
connection for many more months,

1353
01:28:44,400 --> 01:28:46,400
it bonds to Gaba receptor, 
right? 

1354
01:28:46,400 --> 01:28:51,500
That's the same alcohol bonds to
so, write any it's not that my 

1355
01:28:51,500 --> 01:28:54,100
experience was this, it wasn't 
even a Lucinda genic. 

1356
01:28:54,100 --> 01:28:57,900
It was made me very tired. 
Almost like a hypnotic and then 

1357
01:28:57,900 --> 01:29:00,500
maybe Hey sleepy. 
The only thing I could think 

1358
01:29:00,500 --> 01:29:04,800
that that my mind goes to is 
maybe this is because I had very

1359
01:29:04,800 --> 01:29:07,800
vivid dreams, I usually don't 
dream that much because my 

1360
01:29:07,800 --> 01:29:11,900
cannabis use is absolutely. 
Yeah, you have drink that 

1361
01:29:11,900 --> 01:29:14,600
doesn't cause visual that's, 
that's that was my computer. 

1362
01:29:14,600 --> 01:29:16,100
There's people telling me. 
No, no, no. 

1363
01:29:16,100 --> 01:29:17,800
You got to do it this. 
So you got your, you haven't 

1364
01:29:17,800 --> 01:29:19,900
done it, right? 
So, I keep hearing that and I'm 

1365
01:29:19,900 --> 01:29:22,100
trying to think, was there 
something wrong with me or my 

1366
01:29:22,100 --> 01:29:23,900
biochemist? 
There is something wrong with 

1367
01:29:23,900 --> 01:29:28,900
you. 
No. 

1368
01:29:28,900 --> 01:29:31,700
But so, but that was my thing. 
That was my takeaway is it had 

1369
01:29:31,800 --> 01:29:35,600
very vivid dreams, which were 
interesting, but not nothing 

1370
01:29:36,300 --> 01:29:39,100
prophetic or had epiphanies or 
anything. 

1371
01:29:39,100 --> 01:29:42,000
Like I do on other tryptamine 
based psychedelic. 

1372
01:29:42,200 --> 01:29:45,000
Not what Jung called a big 
dream, right? 

1373
01:29:45,600 --> 01:29:49,000
Yeah. 
Yeah, my experience with it is 

1374
01:29:49,000 --> 01:29:56,400
always been mild. 
But with someone like me who 

1375
01:29:56,400 --> 01:30:00,000
grew up taking, you know, 
drinking a third of a vial of 

1376
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:02,100
acid. 
When I, you know, and my teens 

1377
01:30:02,100 --> 01:30:06,000
and taking 20 and 30 grams of 
cubensis mushrooms. 

1378
01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:13,900
And teens and 20s, I'm not sure 
that I would, I'm not sure it 

1379
01:30:13,907 --> 01:30:17,200
would do that for me because my 
frame of reference is bigger, 

1380
01:30:17,300 --> 01:30:19,500
it's bigger. 
And you know, I know what's 

1381
01:30:19,500 --> 01:30:23,000
possible with those substances 
and and I'm skeptical that 

1382
01:30:23,000 --> 01:30:29,000
Amanita for someone with my 
history can ever meet that 

1383
01:30:29,300 --> 01:30:33,700
level. 
But I'm open, you know, I'm 

1384
01:30:33,700 --> 01:30:37,000
hoping obviously, I still pick 
them and I still prepare them. 

1385
01:30:37,000 --> 01:30:43,300
And my thing, what I like to do 
is Infuse them in wine and just 

1386
01:30:43,300 --> 01:30:45,500
sip on it. 
I read about a ritual. 

1387
01:30:45,500 --> 01:30:49,300
I think it was in ruk ruk and 
Hoffman where they were talking 

1388
01:30:49,300 --> 01:30:54,000
about, who are the peacock 
worshipers and Iran. 

1389
01:30:54,000 --> 01:31:01,600
The peacock God I can't, I'll 
remember the minute, but but 

1390
01:31:01,600 --> 01:31:04,900
that he claims, that they would 
go up on the roof of their 

1391
01:31:04,900 --> 01:31:10,300
house, every morning and take a 
sip of this wine that's been 

1392
01:31:10,300 --> 01:31:15,600
infused with these mushrooms. 
And I have a friend who is 

1393
01:31:15,600 --> 01:31:17,800
Siberian descends from 
Siberians. 

1394
01:31:18,400 --> 01:31:23,100
And he claimed that his 
grandfather would put the 

1395
01:31:23,100 --> 01:31:27,000
mushrooms in vodka, they were 
Russian but they descended from 

1396
01:31:27,000 --> 01:31:30,500
Siberians He claimed, they would
put them in vodka but he would 

1397
01:31:30,500 --> 01:31:34,700
only take a tiny amount and he 
would do this every night, but 

1398
01:31:34,700 --> 01:31:36,100
he didn't say it was a 
hallucinogen. 

1399
01:31:36,100 --> 01:31:40,600
He claimed it was a medicine and
that's actually how you saw it 

1400
01:31:40,600 --> 01:31:44,300
marketed and in Germany. 
Back in the 19th century, you 

1401
01:31:44,300 --> 01:31:48,900
could buy Amanita muscaria 
medicines, that are unheard of 

1402
01:31:48,900 --> 01:31:52,700
now, but they seem to have 
thought that it had some kind of

1403
01:31:52,700 --> 01:31:56,800
a medicinal value almost like 
with old folks here in the 

1404
01:31:56,808 --> 01:31:58,100
South. 
That would drink. 

1405
01:31:58,900 --> 01:32:03,000
Sassafras tea, you know, 
sassafras contains safrole, 

1406
01:32:03,000 --> 01:32:08,500
which is a precursor to MDMA and
it was outlawed. 

1407
01:32:08,600 --> 01:32:12,700
I think, for that reason. 
The reason that was that the 

1408
01:32:12,700 --> 01:32:16,500
peacock, I was a Malik that me 
Ellie killick. 

1409
01:32:17,200 --> 01:32:20,200
That's the God. 
But yeah, it's actually a foul 

1410
01:32:20,200 --> 01:32:23,800
goddamn elect house but the 
group, The, you see this says, 

1411
01:32:23,800 --> 01:32:26,700
it's a, yeah, this is Edie's. 
Is the, the I thought you were 

1412
01:32:26,700 --> 01:32:30,000
looking for the actually. 
The Malik and then it's called 

1413
01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:34,600
the peacock, angel of that. 
Peacock Angel. 

1414
01:32:35,000 --> 01:32:42,000
Melek taus is actually an owl 
but it's but it's confused with 

1415
01:32:42,000 --> 01:32:46,500
this peacock, if maybe I'm 
wrong, but I I'm pretty certain.

1416
01:32:46,500 --> 01:32:51,900
Melech Taos, is an owl deity. 
I know moloch is an owl deity. 

1417
01:32:51,900 --> 01:32:54,900
That's but I don't know if 
that's the same. 

1418
01:32:54,900 --> 01:32:55,900
I don't know. 
I haven't done enough. 

1419
01:32:55,900 --> 01:32:57,300
I didn't even know about this 
speak. 

1420
01:32:57,300 --> 01:33:01,200
I got to look into his room. 
Yeah, it's the same route but 

1421
01:33:01,200 --> 01:33:07,700
the melek taus This peacock, 
Angel is basically Lucifer. 

1422
01:33:07,800 --> 01:33:13,400
And anybody who's done DMT or 
high doses of psilocybin, 

1423
01:33:13,500 --> 01:33:16,400
immediately recognizes the 
peacocks tail. 

1424
01:33:17,100 --> 01:33:22,400
It's an Alchemy, it's called 
caught up of bonus and caught 

1425
01:33:22,400 --> 01:33:23,800
up. 
A bonus means, tail of the 

1426
01:33:23,800 --> 01:33:26,800
peacock. 
And if you see the tail of the 

1427
01:33:26,808 --> 01:33:31,600
peacock, in your Alchemy in your
work, you know, you've arrived. 

1428
01:33:31,600 --> 01:33:37,300
That's the last The last sign 
that you're about to break 

1429
01:33:37,300 --> 01:33:41,500
through and, and have success 
with your, with the stone. 

1430
01:33:41,900 --> 01:33:45,500
If you don't see the peacocks 
tail, you're not close. 

1431
01:33:46,000 --> 01:33:48,800
And just so anybody that smokes 
out and gets all weird. 

1432
01:33:48,800 --> 01:33:56,900
Lucifer, literally means, you 
know, Morningstar, you know, 

1433
01:33:57,200 --> 01:33:59,900
which is Native American deity 
also, right? 

1434
01:33:59,900 --> 01:34:02,900
So so before people, if you're 
religious, before you freak out,

1435
01:34:03,100 --> 01:34:07,100
Go look into the origins of 
Satan, Lucifer. 

1436
01:34:07,100 --> 01:34:12,300
They're all different and these 
are just anthropomorphize 

1437
01:34:12,300 --> 01:34:16,400
concepts of what people see as 
evil. 

1438
01:34:16,400 --> 01:34:18,400
However, their Origins are not 
evil at all. 

1439
01:34:18,407 --> 01:34:22,500
So it makes no sense. 
It's almost like it's crazy that

1440
01:34:22,500 --> 01:34:29,500
people abide by this stuff so, 
you know, dogmatically because 

1441
01:34:29,500 --> 01:34:32,600
apparently none of those people 
have done any of their homework.

1442
01:34:32,600 --> 01:34:38,700
So Go look into the origins, 
obviously shows up in the Bible.

1443
01:34:38,700 --> 01:34:42,600
I think, I think word is 
Lucifer, huge and Isaiah 

1444
01:34:43,100 --> 01:34:47,000
Lucifer, and but Lucifer has 
just kind of Taken on a life of 

1445
01:34:47,000 --> 01:34:49,300
its own, the whole thing's 
stupid. 

1446
01:34:49,300 --> 01:34:53,900
Like I said, I grew up Catholic 
went to Catholic schools Church 

1447
01:34:53,900 --> 01:34:55,600
twice a week. 
I'm a good person. 

1448
01:34:56,600 --> 01:35:00,600
However there's so many dogmatic
religious people. 

1449
01:35:00,600 --> 01:35:01,900
Yeah, exactly. 
Somebody put light-bearer 

1450
01:35:01,900 --> 01:35:04,800
exactly like bear. 
Dean bringer, Morningstar. 

1451
01:35:07,100 --> 01:35:11,500
You know, the thing about all of
that is again do your homework. 

1452
01:35:11,500 --> 01:35:16,500
If you want to really do great 
research, start at the root or 

1453
01:35:16,500 --> 01:35:21,000
going back to the earliest known
reference, whether it's a person

1454
01:35:21,300 --> 01:35:24,100
or a passage or whatever and 
work your way from there. 

1455
01:35:24,400 --> 01:35:27,000
Because then you're at least 
going back to the first known 

1456
01:35:27,000 --> 01:35:28,800
instance of this. 
So you can look at the 

1457
01:35:28,800 --> 01:35:31,800
progression and how its evolved 
and how it was used. 

1458
01:35:31,900 --> 01:35:33,900
That's doing great research. 
Search doing bad. 

1459
01:35:33,900 --> 01:35:37,900
Research is reading just the 
Bible or just watching a YouTube

1460
01:35:37,900 --> 01:35:41,700
video or just you know, watching
One documentary and thinking, 

1461
01:35:41,700 --> 01:35:44,800
you know, all about a subject or
something along those lines. 

1462
01:35:44,900 --> 01:35:47,500
Google is not your friend by the
way. 

1463
01:35:47,500 --> 01:35:49,400
If you want to be a Regal could 
be good. 

1464
01:35:49,400 --> 01:35:51,900
Google can be a resource but 
don't make that your primary 

1465
01:35:51,900 --> 01:35:56,400
resource now. 
Go ahead and get ready to get 

1466
01:35:56,400 --> 01:36:01,200
become poor and broke buying 
books, because the books that 

1467
01:36:01,200 --> 01:36:03,000
have anything that's worth 
reading. 

1468
01:36:03,100 --> 01:36:10,100
NG in them are going to cost, 
70, 150, $250, that's where it's

1469
01:36:10,100 --> 01:36:13,400
at right now. 
What if you can find it in 

1470
01:36:13,400 --> 01:36:17,500
Barnes & Noble, you don't want 
to fucking read it, there's 

1471
01:36:17,500 --> 01:36:20,700
nothing in every someone told me
this. 

1472
01:36:20,700 --> 01:36:24,300
Once that if you can buy it in a
store it's a beginner book and 

1473
01:36:24,300 --> 01:36:26,700
they're right. 
If it's in a store, it's for 

1474
01:36:26,700 --> 01:36:30,300
beginners. 
The the meaty texts that are 

1475
01:36:30,300 --> 01:36:32,100
going to have this kind of stuff
in it. 

1476
01:36:33,800 --> 01:36:37,600
Get ready to spend 100 to 150 
dollars and click on this. 

1477
01:36:37,900 --> 01:36:41,700
Go follow PD on Facebook right 
now and Instagram because he's 

1478
01:36:41,700 --> 01:36:44,600
constantly selling these books 
that he's already read these 

1479
01:36:44,600 --> 01:36:48,400
expensive as books. 
Have shirt and tie them and he's

1480
01:36:48,400 --> 01:36:51,000
charging less than what they're 
worth and they're worth a lot. 

1481
01:36:51,000 --> 01:36:57,100
So again, follow PD, yeah, 
follow me. 

1482
01:36:57,600 --> 01:37:02,700
I post mainly post about things 
that interest me and the Books. 

1483
01:37:02,700 --> 01:37:04,800
I'm selling there. 
If you're interested in buying 

1484
01:37:04,800 --> 01:37:08,100
books, definitely, definitely 
follow me because I sell 

1485
01:37:08,100 --> 01:37:12,300
hundreds every year. 
In cross-reference things if 

1486
01:37:12,308 --> 01:37:15,800
you're going to search something
on Google also go check other 

1487
01:37:15,800 --> 01:37:19,300
servers in check, you know, 
even, you know, I look, there's 

1488
01:37:19,300 --> 01:37:24,000
stuff wrong with, you know, Chad
GPT does isn't always accurate, 

1489
01:37:24,000 --> 01:37:27,100
especially, with opinion-based 
things, but I've type some 

1490
01:37:27,100 --> 01:37:30,100
things into it and it can pull 
up facts and factual 

1491
01:37:30,100 --> 01:37:33,400
information, and papers, and 
references and quotes, and 

1492
01:37:33,400 --> 01:37:36,200
things like that. 
So, again, try and get creative 

1493
01:37:36,200 --> 01:37:38,200
with your research. 
Spread it around, look at 

1494
01:37:38,300 --> 01:37:43,300
multiple looking to books. 
Into ancient texts. 

1495
01:37:43,700 --> 01:37:46,500
Look into if you look at ancient
texts, don't just look at it in 

1496
01:37:46,500 --> 01:37:49,500
context, but then read every 
translation you can get because 

1497
01:37:49,500 --> 01:37:52,200
there might be like. 
For instance, if you read 

1498
01:37:52,200 --> 01:37:56,800
Plato's dialogues, you know, 
whether it's transcribed from 

1499
01:37:56,800 --> 01:37:58,900
Latin, or ancient, Greek, or 
whatever. 

1500
01:37:59,100 --> 01:38:01,900
Some of the words have different
meanings, or might have other 

1501
01:38:01,900 --> 01:38:03,500
multiple meanings and things 
like that. 

1502
01:38:03,500 --> 01:38:07,900
So to actually really dive deep 
into it, they always suggest 

1503
01:38:07,900 --> 01:38:09,600
that you read. 
Multiple translations. 

1504
01:38:09,600 --> 01:38:12,300
So same time, Of a thing. 
You just cross referencing like 

1505
01:38:12,300 --> 01:38:15,500
a ton of things here. 
Yeah, the older. 

1506
01:38:15,700 --> 01:38:18,100
It is, the more translations you
want to read. 

1507
01:38:18,100 --> 01:38:21,000
I ran into this problem with my 
the book that's about to come 

1508
01:38:21,000 --> 01:38:24,800
out on theurgy because you can't
really talk about theurgy 

1509
01:38:24,800 --> 01:38:28,200
without talking about the 
pre-socratics because what the 

1510
01:38:28,200 --> 01:38:32,000
theory just did, was 
re-orientate the direction of 

1511
01:38:32,000 --> 01:38:36,100
travel prior to Plato, everybody
went to the underworld, traveled

1512
01:38:36,100 --> 01:38:40,500
to the underworld after Plato, 
because Plato allegorized And 

1513
01:38:40,500 --> 01:38:45,200
that underworld Journey as 
Incarnation as so as if to say 

1514
01:38:46,000 --> 01:38:50,400
when we fell from Divinity and 
became in a body that is going 

1515
01:38:50,400 --> 01:38:53,100
to hell. 
After that, there's nowhere else

1516
01:38:53,100 --> 01:38:55,900
to go. 
Or as far as we can go, the, the

1517
01:38:55,900 --> 01:38:59,300
orientation changes and 
everybody wants to go up. 

1518
01:39:00,100 --> 01:39:05,600
But in order to talk about that,
Intelligently. 

1519
01:39:05,900 --> 01:39:10,500
I couldn't just read one 
translation of Parmenides, I had

1520
01:39:10,500 --> 01:39:14,300
to read every translation of 
Parmenides and even that wasn't 

1521
01:39:14,300 --> 01:39:19,900
enough I had to get a Greek 
Lexicon and dictionary and then 

1522
01:39:19,900 --> 01:39:26,200
start translating it myself. 
You know the older it is spoil 

1523
01:39:26,200 --> 01:39:33,400
alert or thinks your senses lie 
to you Parliament Parmenides has

1524
01:39:33,400 --> 01:39:38,200
this You know, he is considered 
the father of logic. 

1525
01:39:39,500 --> 01:39:46,500
This is one thing that really 
fascinates me prior to his 

1526
01:39:46,500 --> 01:39:52,400
introduction of logic of logos. 
Everything turned on a pivot of 

1527
01:39:52,400 --> 01:39:57,000
Mythos. 
So we take Logic for granted. 

1528
01:39:57,200 --> 01:40:00,600
We say, we can look at someone 
in the street and what they're 

1529
01:40:00,600 --> 01:40:03,500
doing and we can just say 
without even doing any 

1530
01:40:03,500 --> 01:40:07,200
calculations we can say. 
Well, that's that behavior is or

1531
01:40:07,200 --> 01:40:12,200
is not logical. 
Before Parmenides, this wasn't a

1532
01:40:12,200 --> 01:40:15,800
thing. 
What determined the rightness or

1533
01:40:15,800 --> 01:40:20,500
wrongness of the behavior was 
how well it conformed to a 

1534
01:40:20,500 --> 01:40:24,500
pre-existing myth? 
What myth are you participating 

1535
01:40:24,500 --> 01:40:26,700
in? 
What myth are you embody? 

1536
01:40:27,200 --> 01:40:30,300
If you're wrong? 
It was because you weren't in 

1537
01:40:30,300 --> 01:40:36,100
line with a myth well, 
Parmenides claims to have gotten

1538
01:40:36,100 --> 01:40:41,100
this information from a goddess 
in the underworld after going 

1539
01:40:41,100 --> 01:40:45,500
into a trance and traveling to 
the underworld, I can't think of

1540
01:40:45,500 --> 01:40:51,200
any other scenario that would be
The direct opposite of logic 

1541
01:40:51,200 --> 01:40:55,000
that's not logical to go to the 
underworld and talk to a goddess

1542
01:40:55,600 --> 01:40:59,800
and get the laws. 
Peter Kingsley, famously said 

1543
01:40:59,800 --> 01:41:05,200
you know, Moses went to the top 
of Mount Sinai to bring back the

1544
01:41:05,200 --> 01:41:08,500
law, but Parmenides went to hell
to bring him back. 

1545
01:41:09,200 --> 01:41:14,100
But the law he brought back was 
a logic that completely rules 

1546
01:41:14,100 --> 01:41:17,200
out. 
Any trip to Hell any goddess, 

1547
01:41:17,200 --> 01:41:20,800
it's not logical, but And again,
we talked about this last time. 

1548
01:41:20,800 --> 01:41:24,900
I think the loosening Mysteries,
Osiris, all these people being 

1549
01:41:24,900 --> 01:41:27,600
taken to the underworld, this is
an allegory for shamanic 

1550
01:41:27,600 --> 01:41:34,700
experience and it plays out more
unveiled I guess in the new 

1551
01:41:34,700 --> 01:41:39,100
world or mesoamerica, right? 
It's not as like, like, like 

1552
01:41:39,100 --> 01:41:43,200
they tear, it became secretive 
to, but it became secretive. 

1553
01:41:43,200 --> 01:41:49,400
Once, the Colombians, the 
Europeans came and Started to 

1554
01:41:49,400 --> 01:41:51,000
colonize and all that kind of 
stuff. 

1555
01:41:51,000 --> 01:41:53,000
Spyro. 
Spyro Oklahoma. 

1556
01:41:53,000 --> 01:41:54,100
We mentioned it earlier. 
Yeah. 

1557
01:41:54,100 --> 01:41:58,600
You mentioned with the where 
those seashells are from Spyro, 

1558
01:42:00,200 --> 01:42:06,500
I believe is our lusus. 
That's where 90% of these shell 

1559
01:42:06,500 --> 01:42:11,600
cups show up that test positive 
for at least datura and Cocina. 

1560
01:42:11,700 --> 01:42:16,400
The ilex vomitoria. 
I'm certain more of them test 

1561
01:42:16,400 --> 01:42:19,200
positive for other plants. 
The same plants that we tried 

1562
01:42:19,200 --> 01:42:24,500
those two specifically together,
those two compounds, Yeah, yeah,

1563
01:42:24,900 --> 01:42:29,400
I go really wild datura. 
I try I think has very 

1564
01:42:29,400 --> 01:42:32,600
neurotoxic. 
I have a child. 

1565
01:42:33,100 --> 01:42:38,300
So, you know, before my son was 
born, my youngest son before he 

1566
01:42:38,300 --> 01:42:40,700
was born. 
I was pretty adventurous with 

1567
01:42:41,900 --> 01:42:48,900
what I did and how I did it. 
But with the datura, I'm very 

1568
01:42:48,900 --> 01:42:53,700
leery about ingesting it. 
I actually prefer Yeah, you 

1569
01:42:53,700 --> 01:42:56,000
showed us last time that white 
men or whatever. 

1570
01:42:57,000 --> 01:43:00,300
Appointments this is, if you're 
going to do datura in datura 

1571
01:43:00,600 --> 01:43:02,300
grows Everywhere. 
By the way, it's probably in 

1572
01:43:02,300 --> 01:43:04,600
your backyard. 
If you live in the midwest or 

1573
01:43:05,500 --> 01:43:12,500
out west, it's like Kobe 
Michaels blend but it's a common

1574
01:43:12,500 --> 01:43:15,500
weed that just grows all over 
the place in the United States. 

1575
01:43:16,800 --> 01:43:20,800
Yeah, yeah, there are different 
strains, it shares a lot of 

1576
01:43:20,800 --> 01:43:23,900
alkaloids with other night 
shades. 

1577
01:43:23,900 --> 01:43:27,400
Some of the alkaloids that are 
in datura are in nicotiana 

1578
01:43:27,400 --> 01:43:31,800
Rustica and obtuse, Folia some 
of the it shares, some with 

1579
01:43:33,300 --> 01:43:36,700
black Nightshade. 
Remember Leah, before we started

1580
01:43:36,700 --> 01:43:39,500
the show, we were talking about 
opium lettuce. 

1581
01:43:40,700 --> 01:43:44,400
Opium, lettuce has high Sky 
amine in it, which is one of the

1582
01:43:44,700 --> 01:43:47,500
things that makes. 
Tira active. 

1583
01:43:48,200 --> 01:43:53,700
So a lot of these share these 
alkaloids, but what I was 

1584
01:43:53,700 --> 01:43:58,400
getting at with Spyro, Spyro, I 
really believe is our lusus. 

1585
01:43:59,700 --> 01:44:05,700
So Cahokia was the first really 
big Mississippian City to appear

1586
01:44:05,800 --> 01:44:11,900
and it was able to appear 
because of climate change, the 

1587
01:44:11,900 --> 01:44:16,900
climate became such that corn 
could be grown and someone gave 

1588
01:44:16,900 --> 01:44:19,400
them a sacred bundle. 
This is how religions were 

1589
01:44:19,400 --> 01:44:22,300
passed around beliefs were 
passed around and what they 

1590
01:44:22,300 --> 01:44:29,000
called, sacred bundles, patatas.
And they received the the maze 

1591
01:44:29,000 --> 01:44:32,900
pitaka with the maze goddess in 
it, who is also known as evening

1592
01:44:32,900 --> 01:44:35,800
star and Earth, Mother May's 
mother. 

1593
01:44:37,900 --> 01:44:42,500
And this allows Cahokia to 
become the first major American 

1594
01:44:42,500 --> 01:44:46,300
city. 
Well, all of the sudden around, 

1595
01:44:46,500 --> 01:44:49,600
I don't know, I think 14th 
century. 

1596
01:44:51,900 --> 01:44:54,400
It's abandoned. 
They stopped building people 

1597
01:44:54,400 --> 01:44:59,300
disappear and they don't come 
back for a long time, but right 

1598
01:44:59,300 --> 01:45:03,300
around that time, that they 
disappear, Spyro starts 

1599
01:45:03,300 --> 01:45:05,800
happening. 
Moundville starts happening. 

1600
01:45:05,800 --> 01:45:10,300
These things further south now. 
Archaeologists know that this 

1601
01:45:10,300 --> 01:45:14,600
has to do with the little Ice 
Age, the little Ice Age, caused 

1602
01:45:14,700 --> 01:45:17,700
a major drought and because they
depended. 

1603
01:45:17,700 --> 01:45:21,000
So heavily on what they receive 
from that. 

1604
01:45:21,000 --> 01:45:24,000
At sacred bundle of this maze 
goddess. 

1605
01:45:24,100 --> 01:45:26,700
They depended on corn to 
survive. 

1606
01:45:27,300 --> 01:45:29,500
They didn't know what to do. 
They didn't know how to move 

1607
01:45:29,500 --> 01:45:32,200
forward. 
Well, the mississippians even 

1608
01:45:32,200 --> 01:45:35,600
though they were mound. 
Builders Mounds existed before 

1609
01:45:35,600 --> 01:45:38,900
them built by the Edina and 
Hopewell cultures. 

1610
01:45:39,600 --> 01:45:41,500
What they would do was Return 
to. 

1611
01:45:41,500 --> 01:45:45,800
These sites are already sacred 
and build on top of them, 

1612
01:45:45,900 --> 01:45:49,100
embellish them, and turn them 
into other things. 

1613
01:45:49,600 --> 01:45:57,200
This happened in Spyro Errol and
Spiro. the great Mound, there is

1614
01:45:57,200 --> 01:46:01,800
called Craig Mound, which is 
Before Spyros Discovery was 

1615
01:46:01,800 --> 01:46:07,200
surrounded with Paranormal 
Activity, one of the woman who 

1616
01:46:07,200 --> 01:46:09,100
lived there. 
Aunt, Rachel Brown. 

1617
01:46:09,300 --> 01:46:12,800
She claimed to have seen her 
noises that woke her from her 

1618
01:46:12,800 --> 01:46:15,400
sleep, and she looked out at the
mound and there were blue sheets

1619
01:46:15,400 --> 01:46:23,200
of Fire coming off of it. 
And these cats giant cats, 

1620
01:46:23,700 --> 01:46:29,600
pulling a chariot around in 
circles on the top strange 

1621
01:46:29,600 --> 01:46:30,200
stuff. 
Tough. 

1622
01:46:30,200 --> 01:46:32,800
They were they were seeing even 
before they knew what it was, 

1623
01:46:33,800 --> 01:46:39,900
but this was something before 
the mississippians got there. 

1624
01:46:40,900 --> 01:46:44,800
The Hopewell had already buried.
All of these Elite people there 

1625
01:46:44,900 --> 01:46:46,900
and they called that the great 
Mortuary. 

1626
01:46:48,400 --> 01:46:52,800
Well, when the mississippians 
arrived, they kind of flattened 

1627
01:46:52,800 --> 01:46:55,200
it out, and they built a floor 
with these. 

1628
01:46:55,600 --> 01:46:59,700
These polls that were faced 
North and South. 

1629
01:47:00,300 --> 01:47:03,500
Now with the Mississippian 
culture, North, and South means 

1630
01:47:03,500 --> 01:47:08,200
the realm of the Dead East and 
West is the realm of Life, the 

1631
01:47:08,200 --> 01:47:10,200
Milky Way. 
It's because the Milky Way the 

1632
01:47:10,200 --> 01:47:13,500
path of souls is on a 
north-south axis. 

1633
01:47:15,400 --> 01:47:18,600
So, they built this floor, and 
then on top of it, built 

1634
01:47:18,600 --> 01:47:22,300
something that's now called a 
spirit Lodge, and the spirit 

1635
01:47:22,300 --> 01:47:28,300
Lodge had these different pipes,
pipes, big pipes that were 

1636
01:47:28,300 --> 01:47:37,400
carved out of Flint out of clay 
flint, and they are Effigies of 

1637
01:47:37,400 --> 01:47:41,600
various Supernaturals, various 
deities in this tradition. 

1638
01:47:42,900 --> 01:47:46,700
Well, what they eventually 
realized after studying this 

1639
01:47:46,700 --> 01:47:48,400
Pawn? 
Nice kitty. 

1640
01:47:48,600 --> 01:47:53,800
It's called the ski D Sky Map. 
It's a like a turtle, looks like

1641
01:47:53,800 --> 01:47:58,200
a turtle shell with with spots 
all over the represent stars and

1642
01:47:58,200 --> 01:47:59,900
then it kind of a line moving 
through it. 

1643
01:47:59,900 --> 01:48:05,000
The represents the Milky Way 
James Brown not the fuck, not 

1644
01:48:05,000 --> 01:48:08,000
the singer, but famous 
archeologist, Mississippian 

1645
01:48:08,000 --> 01:48:12,900
archaeologist, James Brown after
studying the spirit law, Lodge 

1646
01:48:12,900 --> 01:48:16,000
in the placement of these items 
in there. 

1647
01:48:16,000 --> 01:48:19,700
He realized they're in the exact
placement of these 

1648
01:48:19,700 --> 01:48:26,300
constellations on this Palm, 
nice, kitty Sky Map, and it 

1649
01:48:26,300 --> 01:48:30,800
represents they were able to 
determine through through a 

1650
01:48:30,800 --> 01:48:34,800
computer program that that 
reverses the skies and how they 

1651
01:48:34,800 --> 01:48:40,600
looked through the generations 
that this was A picture of the 

1652
01:48:40,600 --> 01:48:44,200
sky at the moment of what they 
thought was, the moment of 

1653
01:48:44,200 --> 01:48:51,200
Creation in the, and I believe 
the 1600s and it was identical 

1654
01:48:51,200 --> 01:48:55,600
to this. 
So This Spirit Lodge Which is 

1655
01:48:55,600 --> 01:49:00,800
where they found, 90%, of the 
shell cups, that survive that 

1656
01:49:00,800 --> 01:49:06,700
have debt Tara and this other 
ilex vomitoria and I'm certain 

1657
01:49:06,900 --> 01:49:11,300
other compounds in them like 
Morning Glory black shade and 

1658
01:49:11,300 --> 01:49:16,500
missive osca. 
They found them there and Riley 

1659
01:49:16,500 --> 01:49:19,500
talks about how the great 
Mortuary represents the 

1660
01:49:19,500 --> 01:49:23,300
underworld and the spirit Lodge 
on top represents the heavens. 

1661
01:49:23,600 --> 01:49:25,600
That's why the deity's are 
placed there. 

1662
01:49:26,100 --> 01:49:31,900
He further says, that the drugs 
smoked through these pipes are 

1663
01:49:31,900 --> 01:49:36,300
meant to animate them. 
Just like with theurgy, we have 

1664
01:49:36,300 --> 01:49:39,900
animated statues. 
He says, the act of smoking, the

1665
01:49:39,900 --> 01:49:43,500
drug through the, through the 
God, because the pipes are made.

1666
01:49:43,700 --> 01:49:47,900
In the Effigy of these Gods, 
animates them and makes them 

1667
01:49:47,900 --> 01:49:49,700
present with you during the 
ritual. 

1668
01:49:50,100 --> 01:49:55,000
This is this is still persist 
today with peace pipes that will

1669
01:49:55,000 --> 01:49:58,700
be made of Eagle Effigies which 
are Thunderbirds or bear 

1670
01:49:58,700 --> 01:50:05,500
Effigies but Mircea. 
Eliade, for example, he talks 

1671
01:50:05,500 --> 01:50:12,100
about in illo tempore, which 
means in that time any ritual 

1672
01:50:13,100 --> 01:50:16,400
even in masonry and these 
rituals are meant to take us 

1673
01:50:16,400 --> 01:50:22,000
back to square, one to Ground 
Zero before the fall of Man, 

1674
01:50:22,000 --> 01:50:26,500
when everything was perfect even
in masonry, when we're 

1675
01:50:27,400 --> 01:50:32,100
Initiated. 
Genesis is recited before we're 

1676
01:50:32,100 --> 01:50:35,000
brought to light and the 
blindfold is taken off. 

1677
01:50:35,600 --> 01:50:38,600
Because that's the creates that 
were being recreated. 

1678
01:50:38,600 --> 01:50:42,000
That's the goal of the ritual. 
And that's what they think. 

1679
01:50:42,000 --> 01:50:45,700
The spirit Lodge was about its 
setting up, the spirit Lodge 

1680
01:50:45,700 --> 01:50:50,200
that represents ground zero for 
the entire world and they needed

1681
01:50:52,200 --> 01:50:55,400
they needed to do this because 
of this drought situation. 

1682
01:50:56,000 --> 01:51:01,100
Things had been terrible for 20 
or 30 years because of this 

1683
01:51:01,300 --> 01:51:04,900
little Ice Age trout. 
People were starving to death. 

1684
01:51:04,900 --> 01:51:08,600
They just weren't making it 
there. 

1685
01:51:08,600 --> 01:51:13,500
So they're their inclination 
was, let's restart time as how 

1686
01:51:13,500 --> 01:51:17,900
Eric Singleton puts it. 
He's, he's the curator at the 

1687
01:51:17,900 --> 01:51:21,800
national Cowboy & Western 
Heritage Museum. 

1688
01:51:22,100 --> 01:51:25,800
And Oklahoma. 
But he says they needed to 

1689
01:51:25,800 --> 01:51:31,300
restart time and this is where 
they find all these cups and 

1690
01:51:31,300 --> 01:51:35,600
these pipes. 
My suspicion is that sour 

1691
01:51:35,600 --> 01:51:37,500
looses. 
That's where people 

1692
01:51:37,700 --> 01:51:41,400
mississippians were coming from 
all over the country. 

1693
01:51:41,400 --> 01:51:45,200
We know they were because the 
things to positive, there aren't

1694
01:51:45,200 --> 01:51:47,900
from Spyro. 
None of them are the pipes are 

1695
01:51:47,900 --> 01:51:51,300
from Cahokia. 
The shells are from Florida, but

1696
01:51:51,300 --> 01:51:56,700
they're all coming to Spiro 
entering the spirit Lodge for an

1697
01:51:56,708 --> 01:52:04,200
experience of participation in 
Zero Mark, going back to square 

1698
01:52:04,200 --> 01:52:09,100
one to try and reverse the 
drought reverse, whatever. 

1699
01:52:09,100 --> 01:52:11,900
They did that. 
They and their minds that caused

1700
01:52:11,900 --> 01:52:15,000
this. 
But and that's that's what I'm, 

1701
01:52:15,000 --> 01:52:18,000
that's one of the main arguments
of my book is that? 

1702
01:52:18,100 --> 01:52:20,600
Yeah, I mean, it's Barbara. 
That's interesting, right. 

1703
01:52:20,600 --> 01:52:24,400
Because, you know, the placebo 
effect. 

1704
01:52:24,900 --> 01:52:29,000
We don't know much about likes. 
I even though you look at the 

1705
01:52:29,000 --> 01:52:31,100
weird stuff that they don't like
random number. 

1706
01:52:31,600 --> 01:52:33,700
Years. 
And you just wonder how much 

1707
01:52:33,700 --> 01:52:39,500
intention in belief played and I
think that there is like belief 

1708
01:52:39,500 --> 01:52:42,900
as in like you've done your 
homework, you've got a true 

1709
01:52:42,900 --> 01:52:46,500
heart and then belief that 
you're just using something as 

1710
01:52:46,800 --> 01:52:50,100
an excuse to be a certain way or
go about yourself in a certain 

1711
01:52:50,100 --> 01:52:53,200
way which is what you see most 
dogmatic religious people do. 

1712
01:52:53,500 --> 01:52:56,200
But I think, I think that 
there's a way to go about that. 

1713
01:52:56,300 --> 01:53:00,500
That is pure that does have pure
intentions and true. 

1714
01:53:01,500 --> 01:53:03,700
True of heart. 
But my question was actually, I 

1715
01:53:03,708 --> 01:53:06,100
was going to ask you before you 
went into the whole Effigy pipe 

1716
01:53:06,100 --> 01:53:07,000
thing. 
I was going to ask you about 

1717
01:53:07,000 --> 01:53:11,100
that because dr. 
Little's going on a run right 

1718
01:53:11,100 --> 01:53:13,200
now where he's just posting 
crazy amounts. 

1719
01:53:13,200 --> 01:53:18,500
Effigy pipes on Twitter, what 
exactly was being smoked out of 

1720
01:53:18,500 --> 01:53:24,200
it was a just tobacco or tobacco
Rustica was that cannabis was 

1721
01:53:24,200 --> 01:53:26,700
that ended áanotherá seeds like 
what was being smoked out of 

1722
01:53:26,708 --> 01:53:32,400
those. 
So the out of Arkansas There was

1723
01:53:32,500 --> 01:53:37,800
what they call smoking tubes, 
which we would call a Chillum 

1724
01:53:39,500 --> 01:53:44,200
when they tested those residues 
all they were able to detect was

1725
01:53:45,100 --> 01:53:49,100
tobacco and datura. 
So we know both of those were 

1726
01:53:49,100 --> 01:53:50,800
smoked. 
That's what was mentioned in the

1727
01:53:50,800 --> 01:53:53,400
ethnography. 
I talked about earlier so people

1728
01:53:53,400 --> 01:53:58,900
that so you want to dry out the 
datura and smoke it right. 

1729
01:53:59,000 --> 01:54:00,400
Right. 
They were because I know it's 

1730
01:54:00,400 --> 01:54:03,600
orally active and I've even 
heard anecdotal stories of 

1731
01:54:03,600 --> 01:54:06,200
people like cutting down large 
portions of in their backyard 

1732
01:54:06,200 --> 01:54:10,200
and getting seat seeped into 
their like cuts and things like 

1733
01:54:10,200 --> 01:54:13,700
that Lancia. 
So the first first time, my wife

1734
01:54:13,700 --> 01:54:18,200
and I we found a Bergman see a 
tree and it was in the the yard 

1735
01:54:18,200 --> 01:54:23,500
of this shoe store in Tupelo, 
Mississippi cold, Peggy's shoes.

1736
01:54:23,500 --> 01:54:27,700
They're not there anymore. 
But every year this old lady, 

1737
01:54:27,800 --> 01:54:30,800
sweet old lady. 
Would plant the, he's broke man.

1738
01:54:30,800 --> 01:54:31,900
See a tree. 
Trees. 

1739
01:54:31,900 --> 01:54:35,500
She had the brig Mansa Aria. 
She has, she had the pink, the 

1740
01:54:35,500 --> 01:54:42,100
white, the the yellow. 
Once we realized what those were

1741
01:54:42,500 --> 01:54:46,700
we went by and we just started 
picking flowers and leaves and 

1742
01:54:47,200 --> 01:54:51,200
you know our plan was to 
experiment and just see what it 

1743
01:54:51,200 --> 01:54:57,200
would do. 
I mean, we were probably picking

1744
01:54:57,200 --> 01:55:05,200
those things for five or ten 
minutes and it became very clear

1745
01:55:06,100 --> 01:55:10,000
very fast that I wasn't sure I 
could drive us home. 

1746
01:55:10,100 --> 01:55:15,700
I didn't eat anything and smoke 
anything just from picking them 

1747
01:55:15,700 --> 01:55:18,500
in those juices soaking in my 
hands. 

1748
01:55:19,100 --> 01:55:22,700
I felt like my head was going 
long and tall and long. 

1749
01:55:22,800 --> 01:55:25,800
Long and tall. 
Like I couldn't focus on 

1750
01:55:25,800 --> 01:55:30,900
anything but that's how, that's 
how that stuff is used. 

1751
01:55:31,000 --> 01:55:35,100
Anyway, as a what they call a 
flying ointment, which is 

1752
01:55:35,100 --> 01:55:40,300
ointments, which centers around 
the same plants henbane 

1753
01:55:40,400 --> 01:55:42,700
Mandrake, datura. 
Bergman. 

1754
01:55:42,700 --> 01:55:45,000
What's the one that looks like 
you posted? 

1755
01:55:45,000 --> 01:55:51,200
That was a James Joyce 
Finnegan's way. 

1756
01:55:51,200 --> 01:55:52,700
There's a man drink. 
Yeah. 

1757
01:55:52,800 --> 01:55:55,500
Yeah, that the Mandrake is 
always depicted as like a 

1758
01:55:55,500 --> 01:55:59,900
walking, almost like that. 
Yeah, like a stick figure, 

1759
01:55:59,900 --> 01:56:01,300
right? 
Yeah. 

1760
01:56:01,300 --> 01:56:04,100
It looks like a little the. 
So that's where we get our idea 

1761
01:56:04,100 --> 01:56:07,300
for an Alchemy. 
They call it a homunculus or 

1762
01:56:07,500 --> 01:56:16,500
homing. 
Que lo a tiny man in Yes. 

1763
01:56:16,500 --> 01:56:18,300
Supposedly we've got a 
homunculus. 

1764
01:56:18,300 --> 01:56:21,200
I a person or that used to be 
the thought that that's what it 

1765
01:56:21,200 --> 01:56:23,400
comes from, a person living up 
in him. 

1766
01:56:24,100 --> 01:56:29,700
When he read about the hand of 
glory and old witchcraft stuff, 

1767
01:56:29,700 --> 01:56:35,700
the hand of Glory is man drink. 
It's in the potato family. 

1768
01:56:35,900 --> 01:56:40,100
Nightshades is a broad family, 
it includes terrorism, 80's 

1769
01:56:40,700 --> 01:56:47,000
Tomatoes, May shade eggplant. 
Yeah, eggplant potatoes, and 

1770
01:56:47,000 --> 01:56:50,300
actually nightshades are not do.
Get your genetic testing done 

1771
01:56:50,300 --> 01:56:52,500
for things that you should eat 
or not. 

1772
01:56:52,500 --> 01:56:54,200
Because there's a lot of people 
that have issues with 

1773
01:56:54,200 --> 01:56:56,600
Nightshade. 
I know, Maurice went to the 

1774
01:56:56,600 --> 01:56:59,900
doctor and was because he had 
really bad psoriasis. 

1775
01:56:59,900 --> 01:57:03,600
Outbreaks, and they said, stay 
away from nightshades. 

1776
01:57:03,700 --> 01:57:06,400
Whatever reason. 
So, interesting. 

1777
01:57:06,600 --> 01:57:10,500
Yeah. 
Nightshades are powerful, and it

1778
01:57:10,500 --> 01:57:18,800
also shows up in pop. 
Its there's a tradition and And 

1779
01:57:18,800 --> 01:57:22,200
European. 
It's not an American American 

1780
01:57:22,200 --> 01:57:26,400
mandrake's aren't aren't really 
active, but they're completely 

1781
01:57:26,400 --> 01:57:29,100
different species. 
What about there's Hannah best 

1782
01:57:29,400 --> 01:57:34,100
was Cannabis used in any of 
these tribes or Native Americans

1783
01:57:34,100 --> 01:57:37,700
Native American. 
No, no, not that I know of no, 

1784
01:57:38,100 --> 01:57:42,600
there are things that are 
considered, cannabis, 

1785
01:57:42,600 --> 01:57:47,500
surrogates, like wild dagga, and
stuff that I've seen claims were

1786
01:57:47,500 --> 01:57:51,200
used. 
But I've not seen any proof of 

1787
01:57:51,200 --> 01:57:54,400
it. 
I I'm a big forager. 

1788
01:57:55,600 --> 01:57:59,600
Anything that grows out here. 
I'm out every season. 

1789
01:57:59,800 --> 01:58:04,800
Harvesting what's available? 
And I've never seen anything 

1790
01:58:04,800 --> 01:58:07,200
like that. 
You've never seen wild cannabis 

1791
01:58:07,200 --> 01:58:13,800
or I found wild tobacco makes 
you wonder 21 was that brought 

1792
01:58:13,800 --> 01:58:18,200
over here? 
You know, why don't we think was

1793
01:58:18,200 --> 01:58:20,400
it Native Americans was that 
Europeans? 

1794
01:58:20,400 --> 01:58:22,500
Like who brought the who brought
the Cannabis? 

1795
01:58:23,300 --> 01:58:29,100
The Cannabis goes back to 
Because I know the earliest F 

1796
01:58:29,100 --> 01:58:31,200
the earliest as it is. 
Yeah. 

1797
01:58:31,200 --> 01:58:33,900
The plains of Tibet there is an 
article written that says it 

1798
01:58:33,900 --> 01:58:36,400
could go back to. 
It might have even been 

1799
01:58:36,800 --> 01:58:40,300
domesticated as long ago as 
100,000 years ago. 

1800
01:58:40,300 --> 01:58:43,300
Maybe even by neanderthals. 
Yeah. 

1801
01:58:43,400 --> 01:58:48,000
So right, I believe, I believe 
it probably was because it's 

1802
01:58:48,000 --> 01:58:52,600
such a useful plant, even if 
you're not using it for its 

1803
01:58:52,600 --> 01:58:56,500
entheogenic properties. 
It's a food. 

1804
01:58:56,700 --> 01:59:02,500
The fibers make clothes. 
I mean it's just you know the 

1805
01:59:02,500 --> 01:59:06,800
the botanists argue that these 
plants produce these substances 

1806
01:59:07,000 --> 01:59:10,100
as a means to protect themselves
against use. 

1807
01:59:11,100 --> 01:59:14,300
But I find that completely a 
faulty. 

1808
01:59:15,100 --> 01:59:17,500
I don't agree. 
I don't think that's what it is.

1809
01:59:18,200 --> 01:59:20,900
A good example. 
Is. 

1810
01:59:25,400 --> 01:59:30,200
Well, let's take the cicadas. 
I'm sure you saw the, the 

1811
01:59:30,800 --> 01:59:35,600
psilocybin cicadas, right? 
That has psilocybin in it. 

1812
01:59:36,100 --> 01:59:40,600
They claim that psilocybin 
mushrooms produce psilocybin, 

1813
01:59:41,300 --> 01:59:44,400
because they're competing for 
the same food source with 

1814
01:59:44,400 --> 01:59:47,200
insects. 
They both want the feces. 

1815
01:59:47,200 --> 01:59:49,700
They're growing on cubensis 
anyway. 

1816
01:59:51,300 --> 01:59:56,500
And they produce this psilocybin
to get the bugs, intoxicated 

1817
01:59:56,500 --> 02:00:00,300
enough to not worry about eating
the poop. 

1818
02:00:00,300 --> 02:00:06,900
They want to live on, but here's
the problem with the cicadas and

1819
02:00:06,900 --> 02:00:09,600
there's evidence that it's not 
just with cicadas, but with 

1820
02:00:09,600 --> 02:00:13,600
skate, as we know this 
cordyceps, mushroom, that 

1821
02:00:13,600 --> 02:00:15,800
infects them. 
That contained psilocybin makes 

1822
02:00:15,800 --> 02:00:22,000
them sex-crazed to the degree 
that they will imitate. 8, the 

1823
02:00:22,000 --> 02:00:26,600
opposite sex that they are just 
to have sex with. 

1824
02:00:28,000 --> 02:00:31,600
Another of the same species you 
tell me. 

1825
02:00:33,900 --> 02:00:36,400
Is that to the advantage of the 
mushroom? 

1826
02:00:37,000 --> 02:00:41,000
If this thing gets sex-crazed 
and goes and produces more of 

1827
02:00:41,000 --> 02:00:47,300
itself and multiplies itself so 
that more of its things will 

1828
02:00:47,300 --> 02:00:49,900
come there and eat the same 
poop. 

1829
02:00:51,200 --> 02:00:54,500
That's I think, I think nature 
is more intelligent than that. 

1830
02:00:54,900 --> 02:01:01,200
And, and I've completely part 
ways with this modern botanist 

1831
02:01:01,200 --> 02:01:06,400
argument that It exists to 
deter. 

1832
02:01:07,700 --> 02:01:12,000
The insects, if it's going to 
make them sex-crazed inside, 

1833
02:01:12,000 --> 02:01:17,600
encourage I've talked about my 
trip report I took, I think like

1834
02:01:17,600 --> 02:01:23,700
four grams, silent darkness and 
meditated and it showed me. 

1835
02:01:23,900 --> 02:01:29,300
Yeah, you know, when I do that, 
I actually started doing that. 

1836
02:01:29,300 --> 02:01:32,500
Believe it or not. 
Before I found out about the 

1837
02:01:32,500 --> 02:01:36,500
heroic dose Terence McKenna even
though I bet I've been doing 

1838
02:01:36,500 --> 02:01:39,200
psychedelics for like 20 years, 
right? 

1839
02:01:39,700 --> 02:01:43,100
I've been doing psychedelics for
over 20 years and I just found 

1840
02:01:43,100 --> 02:01:46,000
out about Terence McKenna like 
four years ago or five years ago

1841
02:01:46,000 --> 02:01:47,400
when I started doing this 
podcast. 

1842
02:01:47,400 --> 02:01:52,300
So the first book I ever read 
the very first book now, when I 

1843
02:01:52,300 --> 02:01:55,600
was a little kid, I was into 
poetry. 

1844
02:01:55,600 --> 02:01:58,300
So I remember reading Edgar 
Allan Poe. 

1845
02:01:58,600 --> 02:02:01,500
The first book I checked out 
from the library was book of 

1846
02:02:01,500 --> 02:02:04,700
Paul Simon's poems. 
I think I was like six years. 

1847
02:02:04,800 --> 02:02:08,900
Old. 
But the first book I ever read 

1848
02:02:08,900 --> 02:02:13,100
from cover to cover was Terrence
McKenna and Dennis McKenna. 

1849
02:02:13,700 --> 02:02:16,400
I mean, and I told that to 
Dennis, he's doing this 

1850
02:02:16,400 --> 02:02:18,400
interviewed me. 
Not true hallucinations. 

1851
02:02:20,100 --> 02:02:23,200
Yep, it was true hallucination. 
Do Lodge Herrera, that that 

1852
02:02:23,200 --> 02:02:27,100
whole part about trying to 
recreate the sound from the 

1853
02:02:27,100 --> 02:02:28,700
Hamas room. 
That was the mushroom was 

1854
02:02:28,700 --> 02:02:31,700
created and trying to harmonize 
with the sound of the launch was

1855
02:02:31,700 --> 02:02:34,600
Sam. 
Yeah the buzz did the buzz and 

1856
02:02:34,800 --> 02:02:39,000
And then you know the wind 
blowing noise, you get the wind 

1857
02:02:39,000 --> 02:02:41,500
blowing noise that makes you 
squint and Ian like all the time

1858
02:02:41,500 --> 02:02:46,000
I get that like yawning is 
pretty rough, right? 

1859
02:02:46,500 --> 02:02:48,800
But with his insect, the buzz 
noise. 

1860
02:02:49,900 --> 02:02:59,000
So on bicycle day of 2000. 18. 
I think it was I was struck by 

1861
02:02:59,000 --> 02:03:06,000
lightning on DMT. 
I was, I was on LSD had taken 

1862
02:03:06,000 --> 02:03:08,300
three hits us. 
We love before we get going. 

1863
02:03:08,500 --> 02:03:11,600
You were on a bicycle on Alice t
on bicycle day. 

1864
02:03:12,000 --> 02:03:17,700
He got struck by lightning 
wasn't okay. 

1865
02:03:25,900 --> 02:03:29,200
LSD. 
And it was on bicycle day in my 

1866
02:03:29,200 --> 02:03:33,900
intention was that at midnight? 
I was going to smoked DMT 

1867
02:03:35,000 --> 02:03:41,800
because I find that if you 
smoked DMT from Baseline, it's 

1868
02:03:41,800 --> 02:03:44,800
so abrasive. 
It's not comfortable. 

1869
02:03:44,800 --> 02:03:48,400
It's unbearable for me. 
But if I smoke it, when I'm 

1870
02:03:48,400 --> 02:03:53,700
already on LSD, it's almost like
I'm just hopping on top of the 

1871
02:03:53,700 --> 02:03:55,600
mountain. 
I'm not being thrown. 

1872
02:03:55,700 --> 02:03:59,300
Grown up there. 
It's the the abrasiveness goes 

1873
02:03:59,300 --> 02:04:03,800
away. 
So when I, when I was doing DMT 

1874
02:04:03,800 --> 02:04:06,300
at that time, I would do it on 
LSD. 

1875
02:04:07,000 --> 02:04:14,300
And I had taken three hits and 
there was a thunderstorm 

1876
02:04:14,300 --> 02:04:18,800
happening in the lightning was 
magnificent. 

1877
02:04:18,900 --> 02:04:24,400
This magenta purple, kind of 
thing going on, and I was on the

1878
02:04:24,400 --> 02:04:28,700
second floor. 
Of my apartment and that we have

1879
02:04:28,700 --> 02:04:32,300
a balcony, had a balcony and I 
was out there trying to get a 

1880
02:04:32,300 --> 02:04:35,000
picture of that lightning and 
every time it was Flash. 

1881
02:04:35,000 --> 02:04:38,000
I have to take my picture but 
I'd never catch it. 

1882
02:04:38,300 --> 02:04:40,600
You know I would miss it every 
time. 

1883
02:04:42,400 --> 02:04:44,100
And so at one point I thought 
fuck it. 

1884
02:04:44,100 --> 02:04:46,800
I'm not gonna do this anymore. 
It's midnight. 

1885
02:04:46,800 --> 02:04:49,800
It's time to do the DMT and I 
walked inside and I already had 

1886
02:04:49,800 --> 02:04:54,000
my pipe ready, I picked it up 
and I took one hit. 

1887
02:04:54,500 --> 02:05:03,400
Usually when I do DMT, when I 
did DMT back, then made it a 

1888
02:05:03,400 --> 02:05:08,900
point to stay in the seat. 
Not not to get up and walk 

1889
02:05:08,900 --> 02:05:11,600
around. 
But for some reason I got up And

1890
02:05:11,600 --> 02:05:17,100
walked out on the balcony and 
put, I remember putting my hands

1891
02:05:17,100 --> 02:05:21,900
on my hips and just kind of 
looking out watching for a 

1892
02:05:21,900 --> 02:05:25,000
lightning Flash and I didn't see
it. 

1893
02:05:25,000 --> 02:05:29,200
My wife saw it, the lightning 
struck the tree in the courtyard

1894
02:05:29,200 --> 02:05:33,100
in front of me and I got hit 
with rebound lightning. 

1895
02:05:34,400 --> 02:05:40,400
And it didn't, it didn't hurt. 
All I remember is being 

1896
02:05:40,400 --> 02:05:43,100
paralyzed. 
I couldn't move my hands were 

1897
02:05:43,100 --> 02:05:45,700
stuck on my sides. 
I remember thinking in that 

1898
02:05:45,700 --> 02:05:47,600
moment. 
Did you get that shock feeling 

1899
02:05:47,600 --> 02:05:49,900
that you get like sometimes when
you plug something in and like, 

1900
02:05:49,900 --> 02:05:53,300
shocks, you can, yeah, I 
definitely felt the electricity 

1901
02:05:53,300 --> 02:05:57,000
but it didn't hurt. 
And I put, I had my hands on my 

1902
02:05:57,000 --> 02:06:00,800
hips and I remember thinking, I 
bet I look like Peter Pan with 

1903
02:06:00,800 --> 02:06:03,100
my like that. 
So, it was my fault at this 

1904
02:06:03,100 --> 02:06:07,000
moment. 
I bet I look Peter Pan and then 

1905
02:06:07,000 --> 02:06:10,600
I'm starting to leave Peter Pan 
worth a damn is the movie Hook 

1906
02:06:10,600 --> 02:06:12,100
bro. 
Get it right right now. 

1907
02:06:12,100 --> 02:06:16,300
Yo Rufio that's that's exactly 
what I'm talking about. 

1908
02:06:16,300 --> 02:06:20,300
Was yeah. 
That's yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1909
02:06:22,300 --> 02:06:25,800
But I'm standing there with my 
hands stuck to my hips. 

1910
02:06:25,800 --> 02:06:29,600
I'm paralyzed and I hear this 
noise coming. 

1911
02:06:30,800 --> 02:06:36,700
From like behind me somewhere 
that sounds like an insect at 

1912
02:06:36,700 --> 02:06:39,400
the time, I didn't think. 
Oh, this is like, what? 

1913
02:06:39,400 --> 02:06:44,000
Dennis was talking about. 
But I heard this noise and it 

1914
02:06:44,000 --> 02:06:47,100
was very unnerving. 
I thought, man, I wish that. 

1915
02:06:47,100 --> 02:06:49,500
I wish that would stop. 
I don't like that. 

1916
02:06:50,400 --> 02:06:53,100
My wife later told me it was 
coming from me. 

1917
02:06:53,200 --> 02:06:59,000
I was making that sound. 
This ungodly gurgling. 

1918
02:06:59,000 --> 02:07:03,800
Buzzing noise. 
You probably like I have no, I 

1919
02:07:04,200 --> 02:07:06,700
have no idea. 
I can't do this day. 

1920
02:07:06,700 --> 02:07:09,200
I can't remember what it sounded
like. 

1921
02:07:09,200 --> 02:07:13,600
I just remember not liking it, 
dude, that's crazy. 

1922
02:07:14,200 --> 02:07:18,000
It's a it's for real. 
Like I believe the newest wasn't

1923
02:07:18,000 --> 02:07:21,400
wasn't bullshitting. 
There is a, there's a sound you 

1924
02:07:21,400 --> 02:07:26,700
can make this is like almost 
like a cicada screaming. 

1925
02:07:26,800 --> 02:07:28,500
I don't know. 
I've tried it, bro. 

1926
02:07:28,500 --> 02:07:32,500
It's you can't. 
I couldn't I You know, I'm a 

1927
02:07:32,500 --> 02:07:35,500
musician, your musician, you can
match pitch. 

1928
02:07:35,600 --> 02:07:38,100
It's like a to me, it's like a 
pinch. 

1929
02:07:38,100 --> 02:07:43,600
Harmonic that's almost you're 
unable to recreate in a way. 

1930
02:07:43,600 --> 02:07:47,400
It's, I don't know how to 
explain it because it is a, it's

1931
02:07:47,400 --> 02:07:52,200
not one tone. 
I mean, it was it was like two 

1932
02:07:52,200 --> 02:07:58,000
tones, maybe three tones almost 
like like to Von throat singing 

1933
02:07:58,000 --> 02:08:00,500
or something. 
But but yeah, like the In 

1934
02:08:00,500 --> 02:08:05,500
throat, singers or whatever. 
Yep, but false said it was high 

1935
02:08:05,600 --> 02:08:09,400
wasn't a low sound, it was a 
Trill you know. 

1936
02:08:09,400 --> 02:08:12,100
Yeah. 
Why I was going to say about 

1937
02:08:12,100 --> 02:08:18,000
that trip report though in the 
silent Darkness I was kind of 

1938
02:08:18,000 --> 02:08:20,300
shown it was not like I don't 
know, people say download I hate

1939
02:08:20,300 --> 02:08:22,700
saying download I don't know 
what to call it but you feel 

1940
02:08:22,700 --> 02:08:25,100
like you're getting information 
from somewhere else outside of 

1941
02:08:25,100 --> 02:08:28,500
yourself, not that you're coming
up with it, but that it's coming

1942
02:08:28,500 --> 02:08:32,000
to you and I was this is what 
came to me, this was always the 

1943
02:08:32,000 --> 02:08:35,200
case. 
This was in 2000 with just here,

1944
02:08:35,208 --> 02:08:37,000
you're just aware of the 
process. 

1945
02:08:37,400 --> 02:08:40,200
This was from eleven Seventeen 
to twenty. 

1946
02:08:40,200 --> 02:08:43,400
I actually have a trip Journal. 
I started keeping actually found

1947
02:08:43,400 --> 02:08:45,600
ones from high school to a there
is a bunch of years. 

1948
02:08:45,600 --> 02:08:50,500
I forgot to do it, but this one 
set, this came to me that 

1949
02:08:50,500 --> 02:08:54,600
mushrooms might get out give off
psilocybin so that people have 

1950
02:08:54,600 --> 02:08:57,400
reverence for them. 
And we do not destroy them or 

1951
02:08:57,400 --> 02:09:01,600
the planet or anything predatory
to him and says, you know, 

1952
02:09:01,700 --> 02:09:03,100
eating them could Save the 
Planet. 

1953
02:09:03,100 --> 02:09:05,800
It is a technology and makes you
more empathetic. 

1954
02:09:05,800 --> 02:09:08,500
Now, that's not true for 
everybody. 

1955
02:09:08,500 --> 02:09:11,700
Obviously, we like you mentioned
earlier, people are assholes 

1956
02:09:11,700 --> 02:09:13,600
everywhere. 
It doesn't matter if you're into

1957
02:09:13,600 --> 02:09:17,100
psychedelics or you're a mason 
or this or that it, you know, 

1958
02:09:17,100 --> 02:09:18,600
assholes are assholes that are 
everywhere. 

1959
02:09:18,600 --> 02:09:21,900
Unfortunately. 
But that was the thing that I 

1960
02:09:21,900 --> 02:09:26,600
was pondering because I've was 
always under the assumption. 

1961
02:09:26,600 --> 02:09:27,900
Same thing. 
You said that like, maybe 

1962
02:09:27,900 --> 02:09:36,700
psilocybin was evolutionarily Ed
by fungi to put, you know, keep 

1963
02:09:36,700 --> 02:09:39,600
insects and what ants and 
whatever away. 

1964
02:09:40,300 --> 02:09:45,000
I don't believe that the power 
that it has, what it does to, we

1965
02:09:45,000 --> 02:09:47,100
evolved alongside of these 
things. 

1966
02:09:47,100 --> 02:09:50,800
And then we're actually 
evolutionarily closer to fungi 

1967
02:09:50,800 --> 02:09:53,700
that we are actually, the plant 
kingdom, believe it, or not, 

1968
02:09:54,800 --> 02:09:58,300
that's true. 
And actually fungi are closer. 

1969
02:09:58,600 --> 02:10:02,600
I should say that that way fungi
are closer to us evolution, 

1970
02:10:02,700 --> 02:10:08,700
Eerily than fungi is to plants, 
so I know it's the same thing, 

1971
02:10:08,700 --> 02:10:17,000
but but man's relationship with 
the mushroom, particularly the 

1972
02:10:17,000 --> 02:10:19,400
cubensis. 
Variety. 

1973
02:10:21,200 --> 02:10:26,100
You can't have cubensis without 
cattle and you can't have 

1974
02:10:26,100 --> 02:10:28,900
cubensis without cattle that are
fed corn. 

1975
02:10:32,400 --> 02:10:40,600
Man is the fourth part and that 
quadratic equation if you so I 

1976
02:10:40,600 --> 02:10:47,300
invite you to study the history 
of corn, just look at corn, wild

1977
02:10:47,300 --> 02:10:49,400
corn, doesn't look like the 
corn. 

1978
02:10:49,400 --> 02:10:54,100
We know, it'll have a few 
grains, a few kernels of corn on

1979
02:10:54,100 --> 02:10:57,300
it. 
In order for it to be full of a 

1980
02:10:57,900 --> 02:11:05,100
full corn cob, like what we're 
used to Fires an entire field of

1981
02:11:05,100 --> 02:11:09,600
these things growing because 
every single grain of pollen 

1982
02:11:09,900 --> 02:11:13,600
that gets caught on the 
statement of that other plant 

1983
02:11:13,800 --> 02:11:18,900
becomes a corn kernel. 
Every single kernel on the corn,

1984
02:11:18,900 --> 02:11:28,500
cob used to be a single grain of
pollen. it takes a man to till 

1985
02:11:28,500 --> 02:11:34,000
the field and to plant them to 
get those numbers that would 

1986
02:11:34,000 --> 02:11:43,000
provide What we call Corn now. 
Even traditional corn to like 

1987
02:11:43,000 --> 02:11:47,500
mac Mesoamerican Maize or 
whatever, has like half to a 

1988
02:11:47,500 --> 02:11:49,200
third of the amount of kernels 
on it. 

1989
02:11:49,200 --> 02:11:53,200
If you look at, that's right. 
The amount of kernels are 

1990
02:11:53,200 --> 02:11:56,800
determined by the pollen, 
available to the field, to the 

1991
02:11:56,808 --> 02:12:00,700
plans. 
Now, if you have cattle, we know

1992
02:12:00,700 --> 02:12:08,300
that psilocybin, be cubensis, 
mushrooms grow on the feces of 

1993
02:12:08,300 --> 02:12:15,500
bovines, But they won't grow on 
them unless you feed them corn. 

1994
02:12:15,500 --> 02:12:23,100
Grain fed cattle. 
Even, that's not enough. 

1995
02:12:23,500 --> 02:12:27,600
You have to build a fence around
them or tie a rope to them to a 

1996
02:12:27,600 --> 02:12:33,100
tree so that they'll shit in the
same place over and over. 

1997
02:12:34,400 --> 02:12:43,400
To make the soil able capable of
of maintaining, of supporting 

1998
02:12:43,800 --> 02:12:49,300
the mycelial network necessary 
to produce the fruiting bodies 

1999
02:12:49,600 --> 02:12:52,800
that we call mushrooms. 
And induce these experiences, 

2000
02:12:54,100 --> 02:13:00,700
this is a complex symbiotic, 
quadratic relationship between 

2001
02:13:00,700 --> 02:13:06,900
man corn. 
Mushrooms and cows. 

2002
02:13:06,900 --> 02:13:09,700
Both mean doesn't have to be 
cows and growing Ryan. 

2003
02:13:09,700 --> 02:13:12,600
Oh poop. 
And growing pig poop, you know. 

2004
02:13:12,600 --> 02:13:16,300
But he has do they grow on those
other poop? 

2005
02:13:16,300 --> 02:13:18,900
Yes, they absolutely. 
Yeah. 

2006
02:13:19,000 --> 02:13:23,900
John W, Allen, famous amateur 
Mycologist. 

2007
02:13:23,900 --> 02:13:25,200
I don't know. 
Maybe he's a professional 

2008
02:13:25,200 --> 02:13:27,400
Mycologist. 
I think he's an amateur 

2009
02:13:27,400 --> 02:13:33,100
Mycologist but he picked some on
elephant. 

2010
02:13:34,200 --> 02:13:39,100
Excuse me, rhino poop. 
And in Thailand, or somewhere 

2011
02:13:39,100 --> 02:13:42,700
wherever, wherever the hell he 
is, I'm not sure maybe it is 

2012
02:13:42,700 --> 02:13:45,200
elephant poop. 
I think grows on both as long as

2013
02:13:45,200 --> 02:13:49,900
their grain fed, but I'm not an 
expert in that area. 

2014
02:13:49,900 --> 02:13:51,800
I could be wrong. 
I know they grow on. 

2015
02:13:51,800 --> 02:13:56,800
You're not an expert on poops. 
Get out makes bird own cow poo. 

2016
02:13:57,200 --> 02:14:00,900
Yeah, when I was 15, I went to 
juvenile hall for picking, 

2017
02:14:00,900 --> 02:14:04,600
mushrooms out of a Out of a 
judge's field. 

2018
02:14:04,600 --> 02:14:08,700
I didn't know he was a judge 
rather never been in that field.

2019
02:14:08,700 --> 02:14:15,300
But yeah, I I get a long history
of cow field picking Yeah, I 

2020
02:14:15,300 --> 02:14:20,100
might never I've never done that
but I've bought enough mushrooms

2021
02:14:20,100 --> 02:14:22,400
on the fish and dead lots and 
jam band. 

2022
02:14:22,400 --> 02:14:26,600
Lots that I'm sure something 
I've eaten scum off some poop. 

2023
02:14:26,600 --> 02:14:31,900
Well I so my family lives on a 
cow field like it's from way 

2024
02:14:31,900 --> 02:14:35,300
before I was born. 
My parents were born and take 

2025
02:14:35,300 --> 02:14:40,900
County Mississippi and What is 
now a cow field? 

2026
02:14:40,900 --> 02:14:45,000
Where I pick? 
My mushrooms used to be a slave 

2027
02:14:45,000 --> 02:14:49,300
cemetery and when we go out 
there, we clean up the 

2028
02:14:49,300 --> 02:14:53,200
gravestones. 
We set them back up because I 

2029
02:14:53,200 --> 02:15:00,800
get knocked over by the cows. 
But I took some Spore prints and

2030
02:15:00,800 --> 02:15:07,200
sent them to folks, and Detroit 
when Detroit got decriminalized.

2031
02:15:09,600 --> 02:15:12,500
And they wanted a strain name, I
said, well there's their 

2032
02:15:12,500 --> 02:15:15,000
cubensis and they said know what
strain is it. 

2033
02:15:16,300 --> 02:15:20,400
So I didn't know what to say. 
I said they're Delta Blues from 

2034
02:15:20,400 --> 02:15:25,900
Mississippi is the delta blues 
and now that's like a that's 

2035
02:15:25,900 --> 02:15:30,600
kind of a household name, among 
Colorado. 

2036
02:15:31,300 --> 02:15:37,600
Yeah, psychedelic groups. 
But That's how available they 

2037
02:15:37,600 --> 02:15:40,800
are here. 
As long as those cows are fed 

2038
02:15:41,400 --> 02:15:46,800
grain corn, then it's only a 
matter of time before some 

2039
02:15:46,800 --> 02:15:54,800
spores, get in the field and we 
average I mean I haven't picked 

2040
02:15:54,800 --> 02:16:00,300
and five or six years and I've 
since my since my son was old 

2041
02:16:00,300 --> 02:16:03,900
enough to need me here with him 
every day, he's on the autism 

2042
02:16:03,900 --> 02:16:05,600
spectrum. 
I homeschool him. 

2043
02:16:06,600 --> 02:16:13,000
But prior to that we would 
average 10, 11 pounds dried 

2044
02:16:13,500 --> 02:16:21,000
every year out of that field now
that's it's it's a lot but it's 

2045
02:16:21,000 --> 02:16:23,700
not like penis envy. 
No, no. 

2046
02:16:23,700 --> 02:16:26,400
You like you said being I think 
you said last time you need like

2047
02:16:27,000 --> 02:16:30,000
two times the amount of normal 
dried or something like that. 

2048
02:16:30,000 --> 02:16:34,500
At least at least yeah. 
So if I take a, if I take 20 

2049
02:16:34,500 --> 02:16:37,600
grams of Of the mushrooms. 
I pick. 

2050
02:16:37,600 --> 02:16:44,400
It's closer to a quarter 10 
grams of something, like, penis 

2051
02:16:44,400 --> 02:16:47,700
envy. 
So I like to, I like to make 

2052
02:16:48,100 --> 02:16:50,400
that point. 
Because when people hear me say,

2053
02:16:50,799 --> 02:16:56,900
I take 20 and 30 grams, I'm not 
taking 20 and 30 grams of penis 

2054
02:16:56,900 --> 02:17:00,100
envy. 
If I had penis envy, I probably 

2055
02:17:00,100 --> 02:17:03,600
would not exceed a quarter. 
So obviously, I mean, there's a 

2056
02:17:03,608 --> 02:17:07,200
backstory to the penis envy ones
if anybody's Did Hamilton Morris

2057
02:17:07,200 --> 02:17:09,600
has a podcast where he talks to 
the sky. 

2058
02:17:09,600 --> 02:17:12,700
I think it seems like Richard 
Gutierrez or something. 

2059
02:17:13,200 --> 02:17:16,299
And what he did was he took the 
original Spore prints from the 

2060
02:17:16,299 --> 02:17:21,100
Amazonian celosia. 
Be that Terrence and Dennis 

2061
02:17:21,100 --> 02:17:25,500
brought back and the 70s from 
not sure era from latter era and

2062
02:17:25,500 --> 02:17:29,600
he took a lot of the went to 
watch a rarity to find kou. 

2063
02:17:29,600 --> 02:17:34,000
Hey, right DMT. 
But yeah, got that track by 

2064
02:17:34,000 --> 02:17:36,400
those mushrooms, right? 
And they got sidetracked by the 

2065
02:17:36,407 --> 02:17:38,299
mushroom because there's just 
fields of them and they're like,

2066
02:17:38,299 --> 02:17:40,100
oh well whatever what? 
Let's take a look at. 

2067
02:17:40,100 --> 02:17:42,700
So, anyways, they brought those 
back and kind of, you know, 

2068
02:17:42,700 --> 02:17:45,799
aside from wasps and going down 
and meeting with María. 

2069
02:17:45,799 --> 02:17:47,900
Sabina. 
I would say that that them 

2070
02:17:47,900 --> 02:17:50,700
coming back and bringing it back
and kind of started this whole 

2071
02:17:50,700 --> 02:17:55,299
mushroom Revolution, psychedelic
revolution in a way. 

2072
02:17:55,600 --> 02:18:00,200
Anyways, to bring my point 
around though, is that this guy 

2073
02:18:00,200 --> 02:18:06,200
took the Spore prints from those
and something happened, where I 

2074
02:18:06,200 --> 02:18:09,299
saw this abort that looked like 
really weird or something like 

2075
02:18:09,299 --> 02:18:12,100
that, so he started cultivating 
this abort. 

2076
02:18:12,100 --> 02:18:15,700
And actually penis. 
Envy is this abort of those 

2077
02:18:15,700 --> 02:18:18,799
amazonians and then they found 
out that they're like, super, 

2078
02:18:18,799 --> 02:18:22,900
super potent, so, penis, envy 
from what I understand in my own

2079
02:18:22,900 --> 02:18:26,799
experiences, taking lots of 
different types of psilocybin 

2080
02:18:26,799 --> 02:18:29,100
over the years and everything 
penis. 

2081
02:18:29,100 --> 02:18:31,900
And he's kind of the only one 
that's really distinguish or 

2082
02:18:31,900 --> 02:18:35,500
terms of like dosage. 
We're kind of what you're 

2083
02:18:35,500 --> 02:18:38,600
saying. 
Maybe golden teachers to but 

2084
02:18:38,799 --> 02:18:41,000
penis, envy is by far the 
strongest. 

2085
02:18:41,000 --> 02:18:44,100
You talk to anybody. 
It's not even a question is. 

2086
02:18:44,500 --> 02:18:48,700
Yeah. 
So, and when you say abort, it's

2087
02:18:48,700 --> 02:18:55,000
not like aborts on, on a cow pie
when you pick them up the abort 

2088
02:18:55,000 --> 02:19:00,299
sir, after it produces, its main
flush and you pick those, it'll 

2089
02:19:00,299 --> 02:19:03,500
produce some smaller ones that 
will get any bigger and die off.

2090
02:19:03,700 --> 02:19:07,600
That's and maybe I'm wrong. 
I don't think that's what he 

2091
02:19:07,600 --> 02:19:11,100
did. 
I think he was cultivating them 

2092
02:19:11,100 --> 02:19:16,500
on a gar. 
In the problem with mushroom 

2093
02:19:16,500 --> 02:19:20,400
spores that you pick in the wild
is they're not alone. 

2094
02:19:20,500 --> 02:19:24,200
They have other fungi. 
Yeah, this guy was a, this guy 

2095
02:19:24,200 --> 02:19:26,500
was a. 
I forget, I don't know if he was

2096
02:19:26,508 --> 02:19:29,500
a biologist, he was not doing. 
He was doing this in a lab, he 

2097
02:19:29,500 --> 02:19:30,900
was not doing this on cow. 
Pat? 

2098
02:19:30,900 --> 02:19:33,400
Yeah. 
So he that's what I'm saying. 

2099
02:19:33,900 --> 02:19:38,500
It's not that they were aborts 
aborts or technically the little

2100
02:19:38,500 --> 02:19:42,799
guys that you don't use because 
the mushroom decide. 

2101
02:19:42,900 --> 02:19:47,400
Ides all my energy as working 
here and I like this these these

2102
02:19:47,400 --> 02:19:51,000
little ones aren't necessary. 
Like McKenna said that the 

2103
02:19:51,000 --> 02:19:54,400
mushrooms aren't the 
hallucinogen there. 

2104
02:19:54,400 --> 02:19:57,500
The sex organs of the 
hallucinogen. 

2105
02:19:57,900 --> 02:20:02,500
So the abort sir, like flaccid 
penises that don't get to 

2106
02:20:02,500 --> 02:20:07,000
ejaculate what he was doing the 
gutti. 

2107
02:20:07,000 --> 02:20:09,800
I mean I don't know if that's 
his name I can't remember either

2108
02:20:11,100 --> 02:20:14,700
but what I'm looking it up I'm 
looking at Altuve, do I believe 

2109
02:20:14,700 --> 02:20:20,500
he was cultivating them on agar 
which allows spores to grow in 

2110
02:20:20,500 --> 02:20:24,900
sections like a map. 
So if you have one bacteria, it 

2111
02:20:24,900 --> 02:20:31,300
will be maybe to the Northwest 
Quadrant quadrant of your disc. 

2112
02:20:31,900 --> 02:20:36,500
But you can tell, what is the 
mycelial network of the 

2113
02:20:36,500 --> 02:20:39,800
cubensis? 
It looks hairy and it'll stand 

2114
02:20:39,800 --> 02:20:47,900
up taller and using ask Scalpel,
they'll cut that section out and

2115
02:20:47,900 --> 02:20:52,200
just grow that section on a new 
a car. 

2116
02:20:52,800 --> 02:20:57,400
And that's what allows what 
creates different strains. 

2117
02:20:57,900 --> 02:21:00,700
Now, you've got strains. 
Like, have you seen the blobs 

2118
02:21:03,300 --> 02:21:07,900
That look they're just monstrous
and yeah blah like fish fins. 

2119
02:21:07,900 --> 02:21:11,800
If you go on my buddy Lee zap 
DMT world, there's tons of 

2120
02:21:11,800 --> 02:21:14,000
people with all sorts of 
different, you know, I'm sure 

2121
02:21:14,000 --> 02:21:16,200
anybody that's if you're on, 
it's hard though, because they 

2122
02:21:16,208 --> 02:21:18,200
got rid of a lot of that stuff 
on my minute. 

2123
02:21:18,500 --> 02:21:21,100
A lot of the main social media 
is like, you can't do any that 

2124
02:21:21,100 --> 02:21:23,000
stuff up like Instagram or 
anything anymore. 

2125
02:21:23,000 --> 02:21:26,100
You have to go to some of these 
forums. 

2126
02:21:26,100 --> 02:21:29,000
There's, you know. 
What's it called? 

2127
02:21:29,000 --> 02:21:31,000
What's that mushroom form 
online? 

2128
02:21:31,200 --> 02:21:34,400
I forget the name of it. 
Murray sure Murray. 

2129
02:21:34,700 --> 02:21:38,300
Yep. 
But yeah you know I guess it's 

2130
02:21:38,300 --> 02:21:43,200
all over read it too but yeah 
they're cracking down on all 

2131
02:21:43,200 --> 02:21:46,500
that stuff online. 
You can't really well. 

2132
02:21:46,500 --> 02:21:49,600
I mean the other thing is I do 
get spammed, I get spammed with 

2133
02:21:49,600 --> 02:21:53,000
like tons of people trying to 
sell and Source shit online. 

2134
02:21:53,000 --> 02:21:57,700
It's like dude, get that shit 
off my Pate like ridiculous, you

2135
02:21:57,700 --> 02:22:01,100
know, like I can't come, I can't
comment on a YouTube video 

2136
02:22:01,100 --> 02:22:02,900
without it being followed us. 
And yeah. 

2137
02:22:03,000 --> 02:22:11,000
Yeah, no spores up here with it.
It's like we love we love these 

2138
02:22:11,000 --> 02:22:12,400
things. 
And obviously we're trying to 

2139
02:22:12,400 --> 02:22:15,100
push this thing forward, but 
that's not helping anybody. 

2140
02:22:15,100 --> 02:22:17,700
In fact, you know, who knows if 
they're cops or whatever the 

2141
02:22:17,700 --> 02:22:20,900
fuck's going on to. 
So like I said earlier, I don't 

2142
02:22:20,900 --> 02:22:23,800
I mean, I don't, this ain't free
energy. 

2143
02:22:23,800 --> 02:22:26,200
I mean, I don't believe it's for
everyone. 

2144
02:22:27,300 --> 02:22:33,300
It's it's it's it's a it's an 
initiated thing I mean not 

2145
02:22:33,300 --> 02:22:37,600
everyone will agree with me but 
I think very much like ancient 

2146
02:22:37,600 --> 02:22:43,000
indigenous people. 
You're not a man until other men

2147
02:22:43,000 --> 02:22:48,300
past you into manhood. 
That I feel like that's true. 

2148
02:22:48,300 --> 02:22:53,100
Also of psychedelic States, you 
can take them by yourself all 

2149
02:22:53,100 --> 02:22:57,400
you want, but there's an 
initiated mode of taking them 

2150
02:22:59,100 --> 02:23:03,600
that bypasses that need 20. 
Let's figure this out. 

2151
02:23:03,600 --> 02:23:06,200
Let's see what this does guess 
what? 

2152
02:23:06,200 --> 02:23:10,400
There are people who have been 
doing it for eons, and passing 

2153
02:23:10,400 --> 02:23:14,100
it down and have asked that 
question and it's no longer 

2154
02:23:14,100 --> 02:23:16,100
relevant. 
That's it. 

2155
02:23:16,300 --> 02:23:21,800
That's really how I think about.
These territories. 

2156
02:23:23,400 --> 02:23:27,500
Yeah, and it will, if I don't 
know if anybody's interested, it

2157
02:23:27,508 --> 02:23:28,800
doesn't say his name in the 
thing. 

2158
02:23:28,800 --> 02:23:30,900
I think it's Richard something. 
I don't know, it's called the 

2159
02:23:30,900 --> 02:23:33,100
true story of the penis, envy 
mushroom. 

2160
02:23:33,100 --> 02:23:36,400
It's on Hamilton's, pharmaco 
Hamilton, Morris podcast. 

2161
02:23:36,600 --> 02:23:41,800
It's on Spotify. 
You know, they go through the 

2162
02:23:41,800 --> 02:23:43,300
whole thing. 
Everything we were just talking 

2163
02:23:43,300 --> 02:23:46,200
about, even he talks about other
people trying to pass off his 

2164
02:23:46,200 --> 02:23:49,300
work, as their own, like some 
guy named mushroom, John, who I 

2165
02:23:49,308 --> 02:23:52,600
guess is prevalent. 
The psychedelic, mushroom 

2166
02:23:53,700 --> 02:23:57,300
Pantheon, who he who steals 
everybody else's ideas 

2167
02:23:57,300 --> 02:24:02,400
apparently? 
So yeah, I don't know, but yeah,

2168
02:24:02,400 --> 02:24:04,300
fascinating stuff. 
Let's wrap it up here, dude. 

2169
02:24:04,300 --> 02:24:05,800
We've been going for two and a 
half hours. 

2170
02:24:05,800 --> 02:24:08,500
I know you and I have to still 
attend to something else here 

2171
02:24:08,500 --> 02:24:11,900
for a few minutes. 
So we're going to keep doing 

2172
02:24:11,900 --> 02:24:18,400
this and yeah, I don't know. 
Once twice a month, whatever 

2173
02:24:18,500 --> 02:24:21,800
PD's down for obviously we do. -
Cape episodes wondered once or 

2174
02:24:21,800 --> 02:24:23,900
twice a week so whatever you 
want to do. 

2175
02:24:23,900 --> 02:24:26,700
But I feel like this was a great
first episode with all the 

2176
02:24:26,700 --> 02:24:30,100
Native American stuff and just 
putting it out there right now. 

2177
02:24:30,500 --> 02:24:33,800
Miss Alaska is PD. 
So if you hear anybody else 

2178
02:24:33,800 --> 02:24:37,400
talking about it, please reach 
out to me or him. 

2179
02:24:37,400 --> 02:24:39,700
Let us know because that's 
bullshit because I know he's 

2180
02:24:39,700 --> 02:24:41,200
been talking about this for a 
while. 

2181
02:24:41,800 --> 02:24:44,900
It's part of his research going 
forward, and I wanted to get 

2182
02:24:44,900 --> 02:24:46,800
this on record, it's on record 
here. 

2183
02:24:46,800 --> 02:24:49,200
So, if you again, if you hear 
anybody talking about it, please

2184
02:24:49,200 --> 02:24:52,500
let us know. 
Because this is groundbreaking 

2185
02:24:52,500 --> 02:24:56,700
stuff and he puts a lot of time 
into this to have the vultures 

2186
02:24:56,700 --> 02:25:01,000
come in and, you know, pick at 
stuff, like they tend to do so. 

2187
02:25:02,200 --> 02:25:04,400
Thank you, Mike. 
Yeah, of course. 

2188
02:25:06,100 --> 02:25:08,000
And yeah, that's it. 
Check out PD's books, 

2189
02:25:08,000 --> 02:25:10,900
alchemically, stoned and angels 
in Vermillion. 

2190
02:25:11,700 --> 02:25:16,100
The links are down below. 
PD has a Facebook group, which I

2191
02:25:16,100 --> 02:25:18,400
am a part of great stuff. 
Again, if you're interested in 

2192
02:25:18,400 --> 02:25:20,300
all those books and stuff, we 
were talking about earlier, 

2193
02:25:20,700 --> 02:25:26,900
follow PD on either Facebook, 
Instagram, Twitter, one of 

2194
02:25:26,900 --> 02:25:28,300
those. 
I'm sure you'll be able to find 

2195
02:25:28,300 --> 02:25:30,700
some of the stuff he's posting 
that he's recently read and 

2196
02:25:30,700 --> 02:25:37,200
trying to sell or Whatever. 
And yeah, I think, oh, please 

2197
02:25:37,200 --> 02:25:40,200
check out lie again. 
Leah was on the show earlier. 

2198
02:25:40,200 --> 02:25:44,300
She had to dip out. 
She's got to be up early for 

2199
02:25:44,400 --> 02:25:47,700
school. 
So, check out at Lea, Prime on 

2200
02:25:47,700 --> 02:25:51,200
Twitter. 
Also, she does have a podcast 

2201
02:25:51,200 --> 02:25:52,200
called The Invisible night 
school. 

2202
02:25:52,200 --> 02:25:54,000
She does on YouTube, check that 
out. 

2203
02:25:54,000 --> 02:25:57,500
But her websites down below. 
And the best way to support 

2204
02:25:57,500 --> 02:26:00,300
mind, Escape is to click on the 
link, tree, link down below. 

2205
02:26:00,500 --> 02:26:04,600
We have our documentary. 
Just premiering March 10 through

2206
02:26:04,600 --> 02:26:08,200
12 that the Roswell UFO Expo, 
that is coming up here in a 

2207
02:26:08,200 --> 02:26:12,400
couple weeks pumped for it. 
I will be speaking virtually, 

2208
02:26:12,400 --> 02:26:16,300
unfortunately, I'm a unable to 
make it but I will be speaking 

2209
02:26:16,300 --> 02:26:19,600
there virtually. 
And again, shout out to Toby and

2210
02:26:19,600 --> 02:26:23,700
Shane follow both of them. 
I've been links down below and 

2211
02:26:23,700 --> 02:26:25,300
what else? 
Oh, yeah. 

2212
02:26:25,300 --> 02:26:27,400
We did a patreon segment with 
PD. 

2213
02:26:27,600 --> 02:26:30,200
And he was on two episodes ago. 
So if you want to, you know, you

2214
02:26:30,200 --> 02:26:32,700
were interested in more of the 
esoteric, I can ancient stuff we

2215
02:26:32,700 --> 02:26:35,200
talked way more about that on 
that episode. 

2216
02:26:37,600 --> 02:26:39,400
Last episode, we had Andrew gal 
more on. 

2217
02:26:39,400 --> 02:26:43,000
That was a fantastic episode as 
well and I'm just trying to 

2218
02:26:43,000 --> 02:26:45,300
think, what else? 
Yeah. 

2219
02:26:45,300 --> 02:26:50,500
Cool merch and emerge store. 
Yeah, and check out the the 

2220
02:26:50,500 --> 02:26:51,800
trailer. 
I'm going to play the trailer 

2221
02:26:51,800 --> 02:26:57,200
actually as we exit out of here 
for the documentary and it's 

2222
02:26:57,200 --> 02:26:59,300
coming down to the wire it's 
coming together actually. 

2223
02:26:59,900 --> 02:27:03,500
So I'm very I needed to see how 
this thing turns out. 

2224
02:27:03,500 --> 02:27:06,000
See people's reactions to it. 
You never know when you put 

2225
02:27:06,000 --> 02:27:08,700
yourself out there and put these
ideas out there, how people are 

2226
02:27:08,700 --> 02:27:11,400
going to respond, but we wanted 
to do. 

2227
02:27:11,900 --> 02:27:14,800
We wanted to make a UFO 
psychedelic. 

2228
02:27:14,800 --> 02:27:19,200
Combat combo, that is for people
that are into that stuff. 

2229
02:27:19,200 --> 02:27:20,600
There's a lot of crossover 
there. 

2230
02:27:20,600 --> 02:27:22,900
So and we were just talking 
about true hallucinations. 

2231
02:27:22,900 --> 02:27:26,900
There's a quote, Terrence says 
in that book that somehow UFOs 

2232
02:27:26,900 --> 02:27:29,400
are tangled up into this 
psychedelic mystery. 

2233
02:27:29,400 --> 02:27:32,700
You know. 
So that was My inspiration for 

2234
02:27:32,700 --> 02:27:35,200
this is, you know, bringing this
is something we've been talking 

2235
02:27:35,200 --> 02:27:37,700
about since the beginning of 
this podcast is those two things

2236
02:27:37,700 --> 02:27:42,600
and how they cross over. 
So - yeah, shout out to Dennis. 

2237
02:27:42,600 --> 02:27:48,300
Shout out to our IP Terrence, 
you huge inspiration, and yeah. 

2238
02:27:48,300 --> 02:27:51,300
Oh check out, check out our 
other podcasts, the Roswell UFO.

2239
02:27:51,300 --> 02:27:54,500
Symposium we just did two great 
episodes on there with me. 

2240
02:27:54,500 --> 02:27:58,800
Toby and Shane we had John 
Burroughs who is one of the 

2241
02:27:58,800 --> 02:28:03,200
experiencers from the The 
rendlesham forest incident which

2242
02:28:03,200 --> 02:28:06,800
is one of the most famous UFO 
incidences and he had physical 

2243
02:28:08,200 --> 02:28:11,100
stuff, you know, that he John 
McCain actually had to 

2244
02:28:11,200 --> 02:28:14,300
declassify his medical records 
to get him help because he was 

2245
02:28:14,300 --> 02:28:18,200
in bad shape after that, whole 
thing, so crazy. 

2246
02:28:18,600 --> 02:28:21,700
And then we also had James Fox, 
who's the director of the 

2247
02:28:21,708 --> 02:28:24,700
phenomenon and most recently 
moment of contact. 

2248
02:28:24,700 --> 02:28:27,800
So go check out that stuff, the 
Roswell UFO symposium. 

2249
02:28:28,700 --> 02:28:31,400
Hey, and yeah, I think what 
we'll wrap it up here. 

2250
02:28:31,400 --> 02:28:33,200
Again, this will be an ongoing 
series. 

2251
02:28:33,200 --> 02:28:35,800
Will pick a different 
psychedelic topic next time. 

2252
02:28:35,800 --> 02:28:38,900
But I really appreciated, PD 
sharing, his missile mosca, 

2253
02:28:39,300 --> 02:28:44,000
hypothesis, and his different 
research, and theories into all 

2254
02:28:44,000 --> 02:28:45,800
this Native American Research 
that he's doing. 

2255
02:28:45,800 --> 02:28:47,900
Which is incredible. 
Shout-out to dr. 

2256
02:28:47,900 --> 02:28:51,800
Greg Little who's also in our 
documentary, oddly enough. 

2257
02:28:51,800 --> 02:28:55,900
And yeah, that's the things 
coming together here. 

2258
02:28:55,900 --> 02:29:01,800
So listen, we love everybody. 
Stay safe out there and we'll 

2259
02:29:01,800 --> 02:29:03,500
catch you next time. 
There you go. 

2260
02:29:15,200 --> 02:29:16,700
Is it real? 
Or is it gone? 

2261
02:29:16,700 --> 02:29:22,600
That's what you're asking me. 
I still to this day, can't find 

2262
02:29:22,600 --> 02:29:25,500
any rational explanation for 
what I saw. 

2263
02:29:26,900 --> 02:29:31,400
Extremely intelligent 
apparently, highly Advanced 

2264
02:29:31,400 --> 02:29:37,400
hyper technological be, I think 
that We just don't look at the 

2265
02:29:37,400 --> 02:29:40,900
perception of reality in the 
right way. 

2266
02:29:40,900 --> 02:29:47,400
Yet he got very close to the 
point that I can see just one 

2267
02:29:47,500 --> 02:29:52,600
big light and then it stopped 
and then it shot up in the sky, 

2268
02:29:53,600 --> 02:29:57,400
you know, you know you're not 
dreaming but you wonder how real

2269
02:29:57,400 --> 02:30:02,500
any of it really is? 
It dawned on me it was real this

2270
02:30:02,500 --> 02:30:05,300
this took place but then I still
didn't do anything with it. 

2271
02:30:05,300 --> 02:30:09,100
Never I said anything to 
anybody, there is some 

2272
02:30:09,100 --> 02:30:12,900
mind-altering aspect to these 
UFO encounters. 

2273
02:30:13,400 --> 02:30:15,400
A lot of people get a sense of 
missing. 

2274
02:30:15,400 --> 02:30:19,200
Time, I noticed that these three
stars were kind of in a 

2275
02:30:19,208 --> 02:30:21,500
formation. 
It was a triangular formation 

2276
02:30:23,100 --> 02:30:27,400
condensed into entities or 
beings that you interact with 

2277
02:30:27,500 --> 02:30:33,300
who are sentient the chemicals 
which are going into our brain 

2278
02:30:33,600 --> 02:30:40,500
are making the conscious 
archetypes cover like how things

2279
02:30:40,500 --> 02:30:43,500
evolve from pure energy to 
matter. 

2280
02:30:45,600 --> 02:30:50,100
Definitely was kind of a 
paradigm shifting moment. 

2281
02:30:50,900 --> 02:30:55,300
As we continue to evolve in our 
own Consciousness, we will 

2282
02:30:55,300 --> 02:30:58,400
perceive of new modes of 
interpretation, but that may be 

2283
02:30:58,400 --> 02:31:03,500
dependent upon how this supposed
phenomenon reveals itself to us,

2284
02:31:03,500 --> 02:31:10,000
and sure why we discredit The 
Human Experience. 

2285
02:31:10,000 --> 02:31:16,000
When it's not in alignment with 
our current belief system, it's 

2286
02:31:16,000 --> 02:31:20,200
important to consider that one. 
We don't really understand. 

2287
02:31:20,900 --> 02:31:26,200
Timelines do under the influence
of psychedelics, they all 

2288
02:31:26,200 --> 02:31:29,100
attached to the reality of some 
other realm we call it. 

2289
02:31:29,100 --> 02:31:32,100
The Paranormal, doesn't matter 
what you call it, spiritual 

2290
02:31:32,100 --> 02:31:34,800
realm, Supernatural, 
metaphysical, doesn't matter. 

2291
02:31:37,200 --> 02:31:39,800
The fact that we're essentially 
vibrates and energy in a sense 

2292
02:31:40,200 --> 02:31:43,000
and the when this experience is 
over that, that particular 

2293
02:31:43,000 --> 02:31:46,900
energy transforms and doesn't 
die because it can't buy fills 

2294
02:31:46,900 --> 02:31:49,800
me with a lot of comfort that 
there is something else after 

2295
02:31:49,800 --> 02:31:55,100
this so-called Here and Now, 
They show you how much of your 

2296
02:31:55,100 --> 02:31:59,400
reality is subjective and 
fragile and capable of being 

2297
02:31:59,400 --> 02:32:01,400
influenced by a psychedelic 
drug. 

2298
02:32:03,400 --> 02:32:06,500
It's only from a scientific 
background, you come up with 

2299
02:32:06,500 --> 02:32:10,900
some Asians that range from 
geomagnetic through atmosphere 

2300
02:32:11,100 --> 02:32:13,400
to something that's physical in 
nature. 

2301
02:32:14,800 --> 02:32:17,600
There's a lot more out there 
that we don't know than we do 

2302
02:32:17,600 --> 02:32:21,900
know. 
So the entire system the human 

2303
02:32:21,900 --> 02:32:27,100
body is effectively a 
stimulation response machine, I 

2304
02:32:27,100 --> 02:32:29,600
think something's here, I don't 
know what it is. 

2305
02:32:29,600 --> 02:32:32,800
I don't know where it's from. 
It could be extraterrestrials 

2306
02:32:35,700 --> 02:32:39,200
Tell it made a full rotation and
then it just hit an insane speed

2307
02:32:39,200 --> 02:32:41,000
and just shot up straight into 
the atmosphere. 

2308
02:32:43,000 --> 02:32:46,600
I think that there's compelling 
evidence that psychedelics have 

2309
02:32:46,600 --> 02:32:51,000
played a significant role in 
human evolution over a long 

2310
02:32:51,000 --> 02:32:57,100
period of time. 
The owl view of reality. 

2311
02:32:57,300 --> 02:33:00,200
The reality we experience with 
day-to-day basis, seems to be 

2312
02:33:00,200 --> 02:33:04,600
this very, very thin slice of a 
something far larger and far 

2313
02:33:04,600 --> 02:33:16,500
more 
as within. 

2314
02:33:16,800 --> 02:33:21,400
So, without From UFOs to DMT.