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Welcome back to Mike and 
Maurice's might Escape. 

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Let us help you escape your 
mind. 

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All right folks. 
Welcome back to Mike Maurices 

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mind Escape. 
We have episode number 270 for 

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tonight. 
We have a special episode. 

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We are joined by our buddy. 
Dr. Andrew Gallimore. 

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His new book is out. 
It's called reality, switch 

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Technologies copy right here, 
just finished reading it about a

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month ago and if you haven't 
checked out as first book, I 

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highly recommend it alien 
information Theory. 

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Nice hard book. 
These books are Actually not 

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just well written but they are, 
they have tons and tons of cool.

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You know, there's artwork, 
there's dialogue your there's a 

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diagrams, there's all sorts of 
interesting stuff. 

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So check them out. 
I highly recommend it. 

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You can go to Andrews website at
the bottom alien insect.com and 

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you can buy the book there, you 
can go on Amazon but yeah I 

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highly recommend checking those 
out. 

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We have done a few episodes with
Andrew previously you can check 

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Those episodes down below. 
We've also done a patreon, a 

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couple patreon segments with 
Andrews well, so you can check 

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out our patreon. 
It's just two dollars a month. 

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The link tree link is down 
below. 

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I want to give a special 
shout-out to Aubrey who created 

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us a new logo. 
As soon as we're done, I will 

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add the link to his stuff. 
He is a graphic designer and he 

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does all sorts of animation and 
stuff like that. 

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So show Aubrey some love. 
And if you need anything done in

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that realm, check them out. 
What else do we have here? 

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Yeah, Leah's joining us tonight.
Check out at Lea Prime on 

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Twitter. 
She also has a sub stack and 

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also check out Andrews sub 
stack. 

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I forgot. 
Please check out. 

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Andrew sub stack. 
I have the link down below as 

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well. 
Follow Shane on Twitter and all 

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the links are down below. 
If you want to support mind, 

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Escape we have a link tree. 
Our other podcasts the Roswell 

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UFO. 
Symposium, there's a link tree 

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and yeah, everything's done 
below. 

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So, but without further Do 
welcome back on the show. 

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Andrew, how are you? 
Thanks for having me again. 

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I'm pretty decent. 
Thank you very much, can't 

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complain. 
Yeah, so we were trying to set 

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this up about a month ago and 
then the holidays happen and 

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everything, but glad to have you
back on and we're less than a 

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month away from the release of 
our documentary, which you are 

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actually a large part, in which,
our documentary is called, as 

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within. 
So, without from UFOs, to DMT 

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the link to the trailers down 
below. 

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Oh, it will be premiering at the
Roswell, UFO Expo and March, as 

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well as it will be featured at 
the Roswell incident film 

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festival in July. 
But the reason why I got you 

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involved with that, is because I
wanted to do something that had 

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a little bit of a crossover 
between the whole DMT 

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psychedelic, entity thing, and 
aliens and UFOs. 

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And I think that, obviously, 
your first book alien 

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information theory is a Great 
speculative guide on how we 

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would make contact with some 
sort of alien intelligence and 

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the mechanisms that would lead 
to that, right? 

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So but I want to talk about your
first or your second book that 

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just came out reality switch 
Technologies which I actually 

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liked even more because it was a
little bit more diverse, you 

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kind of go into more of the 
different compounds and the 

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mechanisms and everything like 
that was that the goal is to 

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just expound off of everything 
you already did with DMT or what

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was the Background behind that. 
Yeah, I think well, I mean I've 

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read a lot of books on 
psychedelics over the years as 

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you can imagine. 
But and I've also developed, you

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know, for myself, at least over 
the last 20 years, I developed 

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kind of a deep kind of a deep 
kind of understanding of what's 

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going on in the brain. 
This is kind of important to me 

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is trying to not just focus on 
the experience, the 

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phenomenology, which a lot of 
people try to just focus on 

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that. 
You know what, what actually 

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happens to you, which of course 
is amazing. 

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Right? 
With with DMT but I'm really 

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interested in trying to get it 
get in deep into the brain and 

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actually work out what's 
actually going on when this 

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simply simple molecules interact
with your nervous system. 

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Stem and they interact with 
these receptors in the brain. 

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How does that? 
That simple molecule protein 

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interaction, translate and 
elicit, these remarkable change 

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in Consciousness. 
So how do you bridge that gap 

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between molecule receptor 
interactions and changes in the 

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structure and dynamics of your 
world. 

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And and can we develop kind of a
unified? 

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I love how that all works in the
brain and I think there's been 

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so much research over the last 
really, of the last decade and 

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built upon research. 
That's been going on for many 

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decades before that. 
But nobody had really put it all

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together, so to speak in a way 
that a non-scientist could 

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understand. 
I mean, you can pour over 

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literature and kind of piece it 
together yourself. 

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But it took me, A decade or two 
to kind of achieve that. 

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So I wanted a book that I knew 
there was kind of a gap in the 

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market. 
This book didn't exist, you 

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know, that's why I wrote it. 
But that you could read and 

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develop a really deep 
understanding for what's 

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actually how these molecules 
actually work, you know, 

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everyone knows they interact 
with the 5-ht to a receptor, 

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right? 
But very few, people can tell 

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you why. 
When you stimulate that 

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particular receptor subtype, you
get these dramatic changes in. 

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Structure and dynamics of Your 
World model of your, of your 

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consciousness of your experience
of self and of the world, that's

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a difficult connection to make. 
And it involves several levels 

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of organization. 
You have to think about the 

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fundamental interactions going 
on at the receptor level. 

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You also need to think about how
does this affect the way that 

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neurons behave, right? 
How the, how does it change the 

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way that neurons communicate 
with each other? 

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The way that they share 
information, how does that then 

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relate to the behavior of these 
large? 

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Networks of neurons from which 
your world model, your ex, your 

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own personal subjective? 
World is constructed. 

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So so yeah. 
So that's basically what I try 

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to do with the book is look at 
first of all, develop this 

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overall model of how your world 
is constructed. 

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So taking you through all of the
fundamental neuroscience You 

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need to understand what's going 
on, just in your normal waking 

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world. 
You know, when you're not under 

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the influence of a psychedelic, 
and once you've kind of 

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established, that neurological 
underpinning, that foundational 

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level of understanding, then you
can ask questions. 

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Like, what happens? 
We perturb this system using 

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this type of molecule, and this 
particular pathway, how does 

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your world mobile change? 
So this takes us to the classic 

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psychedelics, for example, 
you're stimulating your 

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perturbing Is this systems World
building machinery as I refer to

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it in a particular way and it 
leads to particular types of 

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effects and then we can also 
bring in other molecules like 

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ketamine or the tropane 
alkaloids and we can we can 

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perturb or Salvia noren. 
Yes! 

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This world-shattering molecule 
reality shattering astonishingly

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psychedelic powerful World 
switching agent. 

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All of these molecules are 
unified in that they they all. 

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Perturb, this world building 
machinery in the brain, but each

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in their own distinct way. 
They approach from a different 

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mechanism and she's why they 
have kind of distinct effects. 

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But we could all we can bring 
them all together as being kind 

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of psychedelic, which is a kind 
of Define as a molecule that 

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alters the structure and 
dynamics of your world and self 

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model if you like. 
So that's basically the idea of 

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book is to bring all of that, 
that whole Together. 

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So if you read the book, you 
will I think and read it slowly 

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it's not an easy read. 
As I'm sure you're aware but it 

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is it doesn't require you to be 
a scientist long. 

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As you've got kind of high 
school biology or if you willing

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to spend a couple of hours, 
Googling a few basic fundamental

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ideas in biology than you can, 
you can understand the book and 

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you will come away from it. 
I think with a really good deep 

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satisfying hope. 
Fully understanding of what 

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psyckadeli molecules do and why 
they do what they do and why 

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we're so fascinated by what they
do. 

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Yeah. 
You you said you know, you wrote

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it for the average person. 
I'm just thinking to myself. 

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There's a I mean it is you know,
you can get through it but I 

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think it took me being 
interested in like, okay, how 

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does the 5-ht to a receptors 
work in this process of 

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psychedelics and you know, the 
whole All serotonergic aspect of

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it, you know, like it took me a 
while to get into that because 

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but once you are in on 
psychedelics I think if you're a

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curious person, I think you do 
start to gravitate towards, well

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what's happening biologically 
and then also, what what does 

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this mean in terms of like the 
nature of reality, right? 

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So I think that that's the big. 
The the main thing about your 

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book is you try and marry those 
two things together which would 

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B, I mean you're not you're not 
out there preaching some Theory 

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of Everything, But in the book 
like I said, you try and tie in 

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together. 
Okay. 

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You know, we know these 
compounds are some of them are 

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produced in our body. 
We know how these receptors 

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work, however, this, you know, 
this idea of mind and experience

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and everything is very weird and
bizarre does not align with our 

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standard model of physics as a 
material thing. 

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So yeah, that's probably what I 
enjoy most about this. 

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This is also like the diagrams 
and, you know, I think the new 

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one you go more into like the, 
the Gaba opioid and all of those

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different receptors you 
mentioned Salvadoran. 

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And I think last time you were 
on, we went into a whole part 

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about the tro, pains and how you
think tro pains might induce 

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more of visions of things that 
aren't there as opposed to a 

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tryptamine which is almost just 
plain off of what we already 

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see. 
So the tropane thing might be a 

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little different in the sense 
you might actually be. 

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Seeing things that aren't there,
which we can talk. 

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Yeah, propane's, they tend to 
elicit, what's called true 

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hallucinations, which are kind 
of indistinguishable. 

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So with with sup with trip, to 
mean induced Visions 

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hallucinations probably isn't 
even the right word, they're 

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normally you're normally very 
much aware that. 

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What you're seeing isn't not 
necessarily not real, but isn't 

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normal so to speak. 
You are you have you maintained 

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in sight? 
To use psychiatric parlance in 

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New York, you're fully aware 
that. 

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What you're seeing is not what 
you normally expect to see when 

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you when you're awake. 
The the the Visions kind of 

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announce themselves as no one's 
going to smoked DMT and think 

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not realize that they're having 
a psychedelic experience, right?

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But with the tro pains, the tro 
pains are kind of a little bit 

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Sinister. 
They creep up on you, you lose 

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you lose that Insight, you enter
a kind of a dream Like State, 

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that's disconnected from the 
environment. 

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In some ways like you're in a 
waking dreams. 

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Are you see things? 
You can actually the Visions are

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much more stable and often 
seemed perfectly lifelike and 

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perfectly. 
Real, you can find yourself 

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partying with 50 people in your 
bedroom for an hour or two. 

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And then suddenly, you have a 
Moment of clarity and awareness 

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and you realize that none of 
that ever happened. 

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Make the distinction of the 
maybe tryptamines allow you to 

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see more of like a superposition
state or just something that's 

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more like the true nature of 
reality, versus let's say, 

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atropine as you're mentioning 
which could be like the 

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inspiration for people coming up
with the idea of like gods or 

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goddesses or metaphysical Realms
and things live. 

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Like that nature like things 
that aren't actually there as 

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opposed to like I said like a 
trip to be in which is 

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definitely playing off of what 
we are. 

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Like our pattern recognition and
everything like that? 

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Well, I what I try and do is I 
try and avoid getting into or 

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making ontological assertions 
about real, and not real. 

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In terms of the experience, I 
think this is a trap that many 

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people fall into, is to say 
that, the normal waking world is

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real and anything that diverges 
from that model of your that, 

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Version of reality is unreal but
that mistake for a number of 

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reasons. 
Firstly, the world that you 

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experience is, I always say the 
world. 

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You experience is always this 
this model that's being 

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constructed by your brain. 
So in a sense, all experienced 

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world's, whatever their nature, 
whether they are normal Waking 

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Life, kind of adaptive models of
the environment or not, they're 

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all made of the same stuff, 
they're all made fundamental. 

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They are constructed as patterns
of neural activity unified 

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patterns of neural activity 
which for reasons. 

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We don't really understand how 
this quality of subjectivity. 

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There's something it's like to 
experience something. 

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It's like to exist Within These 
world but these worlds are 

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always built by the brain. 
And when you take a psychedelic 

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what's happening is this world 
model that's being constructed 

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by your your cortex is changing.
The model is changing. 

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Being. 
That doesn't mean that the model

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is wrong or is untrue, or is 
more true or, you know, I always

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sidestep questions about whether
we're seeing true reality. 

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I don't think we really have 
access. 

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We don't really have access to 
the true nature of the the 

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external environment or whatever
that might be, whether there 

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really isn't any external 
environment in these are all 

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kind of deep philosophical. 
Optical questions but I think 

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00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,000
you can get. 
You can tie yourself in knots. 

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If you try and make a sharp 
distinction between the real 

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world or the true world and 
hallucinatory World, 

253
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hallucinations really are a non 
adaptive perceptions, they are 

254
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versions of Your World model 
that perhaps are not adaptive. 

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They don't possess immediate 
survival Advantage whereas the 

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normal waking world. 
Does it allows you to navigate 

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and to survive and to reproduce 
What, You Know, in whatever that

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00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,200
there is out there? 
You know, whatever the 

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environment really is. 
We don't really know what the 

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external world is truly. 
Like all we do is we have this 

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model that is somehow marked 
using sensory information to the

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environment and it works. 
It's a functional model. 

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00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,500
Yeah I was kind of just I was 
kind of just referencing almost 

264
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like Donald Hoffman's case 
against reality style, playing 

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in with the Psychedelic stuff. 
That's kind of just what I was 

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00:16:46,300 --> 00:16:47,700
going getting. 
Yeah, I know. 

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00:16:47,700 --> 00:16:50,100
I mean I'm a big fan of going 
Hoffman, I'm not, I've been 

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reading, I would say, I knew him
before he was famous. 

269
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,200
So to speak. 
I am reading is taken or yeah. 

270
00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,500
So it's kind of annoying. 
Everyone's everyone's into 

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Hoffman, never heard of, have 
you read Donald Hoffman's books?

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00:17:03,100 --> 00:17:05,300
Yeah, of course, I read his 
book, you know. 

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00:17:05,300 --> 00:17:08,800
So like decades ago, Go. 
When he when he was riding 

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00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:15,500
obscure papers when he's kind of
fermenting these ideas that have

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00:17:15,500 --> 00:17:18,900
become more mainstream. 
Now, it really struck me as 

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being a really powerful way of 
viewing. 

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The world in that, the model is 
not. 

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The brain has no yardstick by 
which to measure the measure, 

279
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,800
the truth of its model. 
And it might not even want to 

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build true models of the 
environment. 

281
00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,500
All it wants to do. 
It can do is build a model that 

282
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is functional, that is adaptive.
That's the only thing, you know,

283
00:17:43,508 --> 00:17:47,500
this is the select pressure is 
to build a model that works and 

284
00:17:47,500 --> 00:17:50,400
the Brain can never know whether
it's somehow an accurate or 

285
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,800
precise model of the 
environment. 

286
00:17:52,900 --> 00:17:55,700
So that's a really powerful way 
of thinking about psychedelics, 

287
00:17:55,700 --> 00:17:58,600
as well. 
Avoids, you having to really get

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00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:03,100
into these horrible. 
Kind of ontological questions of

289
00:18:03,100 --> 00:18:04,900
is it real? 
Or is it not real? 

290
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,900
Because then you have to start 
asking Well, what do you mean by

291
00:18:09,300 --> 00:18:12,000
real or not? 
Real. 

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00:18:12,100 --> 00:18:16,000
I mean, the experience is real, 
you know, when you are, you 

293
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,800
know, when you're at the peak of
the DMT trip, you are 

294
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:23,900
experiencing that, that is as 
real as it is. 

295
00:18:23,900 --> 00:18:26,400
When you're in the normal waking
world, it's built from the same 

296
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:28,700
stuff. 
It's an astonishingly different.

297
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:34,100
Remarkably different kind of 
experienced world, but it's 

298
00:18:34,100 --> 00:18:37,400
built from the same stuff as 
your normal waking world. 

299
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,900
So in, so in the book really, 
what I try to do is focus on 

300
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:42,800
that model. 
How is that model? 

301
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:44,900
Constructed house? 
That model changed? 

302
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,900
Whilst avoiding getting into 
questions about our the machine 

303
00:18:48,900 --> 00:18:54,600
elves conscious or do they 
continue to exist after the trip

304
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,100
ends? 
Were they there before waiting 

305
00:18:57,100 --> 00:18:59,600
for you? 
He's really cool questions and I

306
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,400
don't have definitive answers to
them. 

307
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:04,900
Unlike some people do. 
You know, as we have we've 

308
00:19:04,900 --> 00:19:08,000
learned in the last two weeks. 
Some people have very - they're 

309
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,500
very - the beef, that how line B
will get to this, to the beef? 

310
00:19:15,500 --> 00:19:19,500
Incredible Andrew. 
First of all, I'm so delighted 

311
00:19:19,500 --> 00:19:22,400
to speak with you, partly, 
because I've loved and very much

312
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,700
been inspired by your work and 
also let a reading group. 

313
00:19:25,700 --> 00:19:28,200
We just finished alien 
information Theory at the end of

314
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,300
January. 
One of the things I'm really 

315
00:19:31,300 --> 00:19:35,100
curious to hear your thoughts on
and I have read your sub stack 

316
00:19:35,100 --> 00:19:37,100
but love to hear them in real 
time as well. 

317
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,000
I'm ketamine. 
Now obviously ketamine has 

318
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,100
gotten an enormous amount of 
attention recently, particularly

319
00:19:43,100 --> 00:19:46,100
in America where it's 
increasingly being used and 

320
00:19:46,100 --> 00:19:49,800
provided and prescribed for 
off-label psychiatric use. 

321
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,600
This is the idea that it can 
assist with anxiety PTSD 

322
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,900
complex. 
Trauma, depression, Etc. 

323
00:19:57,100 --> 00:20:01,400
I'm very curious to hear your 
thoughts on the uptick in this 

324
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,000
use and then also, if you could 
talk a little bit about how it 

325
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,800
differs from the a classical 
psychedelics, like psilocybin or

326
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:17,000
LSD, Yeah, I mean I'm I'm a I'm 
kind of a big fan of ketamine. 

327
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,800
I think it's a very interesting 
molecule there is, I mean, there

328
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:29,600
is a queue. 
Yeah, it's it's complicated and 

329
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,000
that's what's kind of beautiful 
about ketamine is, it's not a 

330
00:20:32,008 --> 00:20:35,000
simple molecule. 
I mean structurally, it's not 

331
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,800
that complicated, but I mean, in
terms of its effect, it has a, 

332
00:20:39,900 --> 00:20:43,900
it seems to have these kind of 
Otto's of effects at low doses, 

333
00:20:43,900 --> 00:20:49,900
it tends to be more psychedelic.
Like I would call it an atypical

334
00:20:50,100 --> 00:20:52,900
dissociative psychedelic, 
something like that and maybe 

335
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:54,200
some people don't like to call 
it. 

336
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,600
Psychedelic people complains, 
it's not a psychedelic. 

337
00:20:59,100 --> 00:21:04,600
Well I think it is at low doses.
Certainly the, the changes in 

338
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:09,400
neural activity that you that 
are observed after someone takes

339
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,900
a low dose of ketamine. 
Women are very similar to what 

340
00:21:12,900 --> 00:21:15,100
you see with the classic 
psychedelics. 

341
00:21:15,100 --> 00:21:24,000
So you see this disrupt World 
model, the world model becomes 

342
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,200
more fluid and more Dynamic less
predictable. 

343
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,400
These are the kind of effects we
see with the classic 

344
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:34,300
psychedelics as well but but 
through an entirely different 

345
00:21:34,300 --> 00:21:37,800
mechanism to what you get with 
the classic psychedelics. 

346
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:39,600
So here you looking so classic 
psychedelics. 

347
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,900
Are these 5-ht to Organist, 
partial Agonist and they affect 

348
00:21:43,900 --> 00:21:47,700
the stimulating, certain deep 
layers of the cortex. 

349
00:21:47,700 --> 00:21:50,200
And this is how they kind of 
disrupt this world model. 

350
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:55,000
Whereas the the roads ketamine 
works by acting at the 

351
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:59,200
completely different receptor, 
type the glutamate nmda 

352
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:04,500
receptor, which he doesn't 
activate it, actually blocks and

353
00:22:04,700 --> 00:22:08,300
this leads to some quite complex
effects. 

354
00:22:08,300 --> 00:22:13,700
These nmda receptors are found 
In well, most types of neurons 

355
00:22:13,700 --> 00:22:19,000
really but they're found in 
populations of excitatory 

356
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,000
neurons. 
So these are the neurons that 

357
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,600
are kind of activating each 
other and stimulating activity 

358
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,900
in the cortex. 
But they're also found in 

359
00:22:27,900 --> 00:22:32,900
inhibitory neurons which are 
these dense networks of neurons 

360
00:22:32,900 --> 00:22:37,100
that sit between the excitatory 
neurons and kind of rain in 

361
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,200
neural activity. 
So you have this push-pull 

362
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:44,500
effect this balance Brain has to
maintain called the EI balance 

363
00:22:44,500 --> 00:22:47,900
the excitation inhibition 
balance and that's important to 

364
00:22:47,900 --> 00:22:52,400
maintain a kind of a good level 
to maintain control over your 

365
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,300
neural activity. 
And so ketamine is actually 

366
00:22:55,700 --> 00:22:59,400
affecting both of these. 
It's affecting nmda blocking 

367
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,600
nmda receptors on both 
excitatory and inhibitory 

368
00:23:04,100 --> 00:23:08,900
neurons now. 
So, so, so what happens it? 

369
00:23:08,900 --> 00:23:13,700
Low doses is it? 
Mainly affect these inhibitory 

370
00:23:14,100 --> 00:23:18,700
interneurons. 
So it stops these inhibitory 

371
00:23:18,700 --> 00:23:21,600
neurons from working properly. 
So it stops the inhibitory 

372
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,800
neurons inhibiting. 
The excitatory neurons you get 

373
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,300
an increase in neural activity. 
It's like a two negatives 

374
00:23:29,300 --> 00:23:31,300
equals. 
A positive is a good way to 

375
00:23:31,700 --> 00:23:33,600
yeah. 
Your it's disinhibition. 

376
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,700
So when you give someone a low 
dose of ketamine, you see an 

377
00:23:38,700 --> 00:23:40,900
increase in neural activity? 
You see? 

378
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,900
See, you see very similar kind 
of behavior in the brain that 

379
00:23:43,900 --> 00:23:45,500
you see. 
With, with the classic 

380
00:23:45,500 --> 00:23:50,300
psychedelics, you get a more 
flexible and dynamic and less 

381
00:23:50,300 --> 00:23:53,400
predictable World model. 
And you also get an increase in 

382
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,300
sensitivity to sensory 
information can as well. 

383
00:23:56,300 --> 00:24:02,100
So this is kind of like 
psychedelic so I would call it a

384
00:24:02,108 --> 00:24:07,300
kind of a psychedelic. 
However, what's More complex 

385
00:24:07,300 --> 00:24:10,700
about ketamine is when you start
to push to the higher doses. 

386
00:24:10,900 --> 00:24:16,000
So once you slip past the kind 
of psychedelic levels, you 

387
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:23,000
actually start to inhibit these 
excitatory neurons themselves by

388
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,200
inhibiting. 
The nmda receptors on those 

389
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,600
neurons. 
So then you get this strange 

390
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,300
kind of cortical activity, where
you have the inhibitory neurons 

391
00:24:31,300 --> 00:24:35,600
are being inhibited and I took 
three new being inhibited. 

392
00:24:35,700 --> 00:24:38,600
B 2. 
And you get this strange kind of

393
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:43,800
emergent activity of the cortex 
where it it shift kind of 

394
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:50,400
pulses, back and forth between a
very inhibited anesthetized 

395
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:55,000
almost state where you are. 
Basically, from the earth, this 

396
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,500
would be what you would call a 
dissociative state or 

397
00:24:58,500 --> 00:25:04,100
dissociative anesthetic state 
but then it flips back every few

398
00:25:04,100 --> 00:25:10,600
seconds to a very high Activity 
States High complexity state, 

399
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,900
which is similar to a 
psychedelic state. 

400
00:25:13,900 --> 00:25:17,400
So it's kind of you kind of 
doing this, come forth back and 

401
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,300
forth. 
And then you type of neural 

402
00:25:20,300 --> 00:25:25,400
activity, kind of unique pattern
type of emergent neural 

403
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:29,100
activity, which is probably 
responsible for the kind of a 

404
00:25:29,100 --> 00:25:31,800
k-hole effect. 
When you go kind of a little bit

405
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,900
too deep, it seems to be quite a
narrow threshold between The 

406
00:25:35,900 --> 00:25:40,200
Psychedelic effects and these 
more dissociative and nice the 

407
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,900
ties defect. 
So so yeah. 

408
00:25:42,900 --> 00:25:45,200
So ketamine is it's in many 
ways. 

409
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:49,600
It's kind of messy in that. 
It does have these plateaus That

410
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:54,000
You Don't See with, with the, 
with the classic psychedelics. 

411
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:56,700
Yeah. 
Does that answer your question? 

412
00:26:00,100 --> 00:26:02,800
Yep, that was a wonderful 
thorough question. 

413
00:26:03,300 --> 00:26:07,800
The second part was more of a 
personal inquiry into your views

414
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:15,500
on the uptick in its application
for psychiatric purposes. yeah, 

415
00:26:15,500 --> 00:26:22,800
I mean, I don't You can occur in
my work, my research, I don't 

416
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,700
Focus too much on the clinical 
side of things but what the good

417
00:26:26,700 --> 00:26:30,800
thing about ketamine is we know 
that it is, it's fairly short 

418
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:36,900
acting. 
So you can, it's not like with 

419
00:26:36,900 --> 00:26:40,300
if you give somebody psilocybin 
or LSD where you have to deal 

420
00:26:40,300 --> 00:26:46,300
with this for for several hours,
has its own benefits and being 

421
00:26:46,300 --> 00:26:49,200
being able to go kind of deep 
with ketamine. 

422
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,600
When you have, you have much 
more control over that, it seems

423
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:57,400
to be, you know, you can control
the levels of the experience 

424
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,500
much better than you can with 
with the classic psychedelics. 

425
00:27:02,300 --> 00:27:08,700
It's also has a gain similar 
academic. 

426
00:27:08,700 --> 00:27:12,800
There is good evidence for neuro
plasticity effects, positive, 

427
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:14,700
neuroplasticity effects, as 
well. 

428
00:27:14,700 --> 00:27:19,300
So it might actually be changing
the fundamental Connections in 

429
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:25,400
Brain with use in terms of the, 
the antidepressant effects of 

430
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,500
ketamine. 
That's it. 

431
00:27:27,500 --> 00:27:32,200
That's definitely real rapid 
antidepressant, effect, much 

432
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:37,600
quicker than you get with kind 
of classic, antidepressant 

433
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,800
drugs, such as the, the ssris, 
like Prozac for example, where 

434
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:46,500
you have this delay of, you 
know, two to three weeks before 

435
00:27:46,500 --> 00:27:49,200
you start to or even longer 
before. 

436
00:27:49,300 --> 00:27:51,700
You actually start to see the 
benefit with ketamine. 

437
00:27:51,700 --> 00:27:55,600
It seems to be very fast-acting 
that I don't think that's 

438
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:59,600
actually well understood and 
actually to, to the point. 

439
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:05,600
So, ssris, if you if you're 
taking ssris, people can still 

440
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:07,800
do ketamine therapy because 
there's no interaction there. 

441
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,000
Correct. 
That's good point. 

442
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,300
Yeah. 
So with with ssris what seems to

443
00:28:13,300 --> 00:28:16,800
be happening? 
I remember, maybe a few months 

444
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:21,600
ago, there was a paper. 
A lot of attention about the 

445
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,900
serotonin hypothesis of 
depression, I think? 

446
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,000
Yeah. 
And I think a lot of people 

447
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:32,100
misunderstood or a lot of people
misunderstand the serotonin 

448
00:28:32,100 --> 00:28:36,700
hypothesis or understand once 
ssris are actually supposed to 

449
00:28:36,708 --> 00:28:39,100
be doing. 
People thought that the idea was

450
00:28:39,100 --> 00:28:42,000
that they are raising your 
serotonin levels, right? 

451
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,100
That the reason you're 
depressed, because your 

452
00:28:44,100 --> 00:28:48,600
serotonin levels are too low, 
that is, he's probably not 

453
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,900
correct. 
And if that were the cause of 

454
00:28:51,900 --> 00:28:56,400
your depression, then you should
act reasonably your depression 

455
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:03,200
to be ameliorated and levels of 
depression reduced, just a few 

456
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,800
hours after taking the drug, 
right as the levels of 

457
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,900
Serotonin, actually rise very 
quickly, but the antidepressant 

458
00:29:08,900 --> 00:29:11,000
effect takes longer to 
materialize. 

459
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:17,900
And that's because it requires a
change in that the expression of

460
00:29:17,900 --> 00:29:21,400
certain receptors. 
So over time by increasing 

461
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:26,500
levels of Serotonin, your brain 
kind of adjusts and changes, the

462
00:29:26,500 --> 00:29:29,800
expression of various receptors.
And that is probably what's 

463
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:34,000
responsible for the 
antidepressant effects of ssris.

464
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,200
It's not that it's just 
increasing serotonin. 

465
00:29:37,300 --> 00:29:41,600
I mean, I've taken them before 
for my OCD, they definitely had 

466
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,500
a positive effect. 
It's not like, they don't work, 

467
00:29:45,500 --> 00:29:47,200
you know, like there's this 
idea. 

468
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,400
Like you mentioned this myth 
that's like, oh, just And 

469
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,500
abandon that for this or they 
were wrong the whole time. 

470
00:29:51,500 --> 00:29:54,400
Like I don't necessarily think 
that's the case, but it's like 

471
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,600
for like OCD specifically. 
Yeah, I don't think it's a 

472
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,000
chemical imbalance thing. 
It's more of like a yeah, 

473
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:06,300
thought Loops that get embedded 
over time that you. 

474
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,900
They're just bad. 
Bad thinking habits. 

475
00:30:08,900 --> 00:30:11,700
If you will or or I don't know 
how to explain it. 

476
00:30:11,700 --> 00:30:14,100
I've written, I've written this 
out before when I had these 

477
00:30:14,100 --> 00:30:18,700
moments or like epiphanies and 
Altered States of what's 

478
00:30:18,700 --> 00:30:20,200
actually going on. 
Of my own head. 

479
00:30:20,500 --> 00:30:24,200
But yeah, it seems to be these 
thought patterns or thought 

480
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:28,000
Loops that become kind of on a, 
you know, turn around and they 

481
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:29,400
just keep playing over and over 
and over. 

482
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,700
And it's up to you the person 
who has the OCD or the 

483
00:30:32,700 --> 00:30:35,800
compulsive thinking or whatever 
to break out of that. 

484
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,600
It's not it's not about for my 
understanding. 

485
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,000
And like I said doing my own 
research and looking in my own 

486
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:47,400
mind, I don't believe it's it's 
a chemical thing and I'm not 

487
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,300
saying that impression thing is 
in But yeah, I think that that 

488
00:30:50,300 --> 00:30:53,300
was the myth for a long time. 
It's like when I remember when I

489
00:30:53,308 --> 00:30:55,500
first found out, I had it in my 
mid-20s. 

490
00:30:55,500 --> 00:30:58,800
So we're talking 15 years ago. 
Oh, take this, this will make 

491
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,700
you feel better and then I ended
up taking eight different ssris 

492
00:31:01,700 --> 00:31:03,500
and none of them worked. 
And we're still trying to figure

493
00:31:03,500 --> 00:31:05,600
out like, what's going on. 
Well, it wasn't about the 

494
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,700
medicine, it's about the CBT, 
the therapy, the ability to get 

495
00:31:09,700 --> 00:31:12,500
outside of yourself. 
So, yeah, I mean, I would, I 

496
00:31:12,500 --> 00:31:15,200
would agree with you two on what
you're saying about the ssris 

497
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:20,300
because they do have a positive 
effect but I mean to what level?

498
00:31:20,300 --> 00:31:23,400
I don't know. 
Yeah, I think you know the brain

499
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,900
is very it's a plastic in that 
it can it can change. 

500
00:31:28,300 --> 00:31:33,500
You can certain patterns of 
neural activity can become 

501
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,500
almost like habitual in that 
they are strength. 

502
00:31:36,500 --> 00:31:41,200
The more that certain pathways 
are used the more the stronger 

503
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:45,400
they become so this applies to 
learning to play the piano right

504
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,700
eventually over time those 
neural Pathways that control 

505
00:31:48,700 --> 00:31:55,000
these complex muscular Motor 
patterns become more embedded 

506
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:56,300
in. 
You can play the piano very 

507
00:31:56,300 --> 00:32:01,600
quickly, almost unconsciously 
and unfortunately, that can also

508
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:06,000
apply to ways of thinking ways 
of thinking about yourself 

509
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,600
perception. 
And if you get yourself into a, 

510
00:32:10,500 --> 00:32:16,000
this negative thinking these 
Loops of negative thoughts about

511
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,600
yourself and of your life, and 
that can become kind of 

512
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,900
ingrained if you like I think a 
ball of yarn is actually a good 

513
00:32:22,900 --> 00:32:24,300
analogy. 
That's what I've written down 

514
00:32:24,300 --> 00:32:26,300
before, like a bug, like, it 
just kidding. 

515
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,700
If it gets down towards the 
middle of that ball of yarn, 

516
00:32:28,700 --> 00:32:31,000
that's going to be a tough time,
getting that thing, untangled, 

517
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,600
you know, exactly. 
And so, this is what we think. 

518
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,200
Anyway, well them kind of the 
prevailing hypothesis about what

519
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,100
psychedelics are doing, is 
they're loosening up. 

520
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,900
They are kind of the make it's 
light. 

521
00:32:42,900 --> 00:32:46,500
It's like, if you've got a piece
of glass, right? 

522
00:32:46,500 --> 00:32:50,400
And it's in a very, very rigid 
and it's in a particular shape, 

523
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,300
but if you heat that That glass 
up. 

524
00:32:52,300 --> 00:32:55,900
It becomes kind of more kind of 
plastic and fluid. 

525
00:32:55,900 --> 00:32:59,600
And then you can kind of 
readjust it into a new shape and

526
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,200
then as it cools, it will set 
into that new shape. 

527
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,600
So, the idea is you're, you're 
bringing the brain, the cortex 

528
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,700
into this kind of hot state 
where it's much more fluid and 

529
00:33:09,700 --> 00:33:12,600
much more Dynamic, these 
ingrained patterns of 

530
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,400
connectivity become loosened, 
and you can start to establish 

531
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,800
new patterns of more positive 
patterns of connectivity. 

532
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,600
So, this is why. 
The psychotherapeutic side of it

533
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:29,600
in the the psychotherapeutic 
support that comes with the 

534
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:31,700
Psychedelic therapy is, is 
important. 

535
00:33:31,700 --> 00:33:35,500
The allows you to establish more
positive to break out of the old

536
00:33:35,500 --> 00:33:39,500
ways of thinking loosened up by 
psychedelics and then establish 

537
00:33:39,500 --> 00:33:42,400
more positive patterns. 
And then as the Psychedelic 

538
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,700
wears off, hopefully those more 
positive patterns will become 

539
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,600
ingrained. 
So that's kind of the prevailing

540
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,100
wisdom. 
Their house have had the class 

541
00:33:51,300 --> 00:33:54,600
Asik psychedelics work. 
Now, with ketamine, I think it's

542
00:33:55,100 --> 00:33:58,000
you can imagine something 
similar, but there seems to be 

543
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:02,600
much more rapid clinical effect 
in just with intranasal ketamine

544
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:07,900
without undergoing. 
A full-blown psychedelic or 

545
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,699
dissociative? 
And Isa ties experience, you can

546
00:34:10,699 --> 00:34:12,800
get these very rapid 
antidepressant effects of 

547
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:17,000
ketamine, so there's still a 
lot, we don't understand, you 

548
00:34:17,007 --> 00:34:20,600
know, I'm by far from an expert 
on the, the etiology of 

549
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,300
depression. 
It's certainly true that there's

550
00:34:23,300 --> 00:34:26,900
a lot, we don't understand about
the mechanisms of depression 

551
00:34:26,900 --> 00:34:28,699
there. 
It's almost certainly it's 

552
00:34:28,699 --> 00:34:31,300
multifactorial. 
There's a lot of things going on

553
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,600
in the brain that causes 
depression and there's certainly

554
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,600
a number of ways that you can 
you can you can manipulate that 

555
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:41,800
system and kind of break it out 
of those those negative patterns

556
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,199
and kind of rearrange your 
brain. 

557
00:34:44,199 --> 00:34:47,900
So to speak rearrange, those 
patterns of thought so I think 

558
00:34:47,900 --> 00:34:51,100
yeah ketamine is just another 
tool alongside. 

559
00:34:51,300 --> 00:34:55,800
By the classic psychedelics you 
know a very safe fast-acting 

560
00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:59,900
tool. 
That doesn't need to be taken 

561
00:35:00,500 --> 00:35:02,600
every day for the rest of your 
life. 

562
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,900
Please seems to somehow get at 
the root cause I think the 

563
00:35:07,900 --> 00:35:11,000
problem with a lot of 
psychiatric medication is that 

564
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,400
they are treating the symptoms. 
They're making, you feel better 

565
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,700
than might be. 
Elevating your mood temporarily,

566
00:35:16,700 --> 00:35:19,000
but whether or not they're 
actually dealing with the 

567
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,900
fundamental issue deep down. 
Down in those that complex 

568
00:35:22,900 --> 00:35:26,200
pattern of neural connectivity 
is it is a different question 

569
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,600
entirely and I think 
psychedelics are probably the 

570
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:36,500
closest we've got in this or 
last century really to a tool 

571
00:35:36,500 --> 00:35:43,000
that can actually start to deal 
with the fundamental cause the 

572
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,300
fundamental source of 
depression. 

573
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:52,600
Yeah no I good point actually 
save my actually my daughter 

574
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,000
actually works at a clinic that 
does ketamine therapy as well to

575
00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:01,700
my wife would murder me if I 
didn't say that and actually I 

576
00:36:01,700 --> 00:36:04,100
had a question to no, go ahead, 
go ahead. 

577
00:36:04,100 --> 00:36:05,800
Okay, I don't know a lot about 
this stuff. 

578
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,400
I'm new to it and it's important
to me because I'm a combat 

579
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:13,400
veteran PTSD. 
So my question is actually, what

580
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,600
importance do you think ketamine
therapy is for people with like 

581
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,600
Trauma related, mental health 
issues. 

582
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:20,800
Is it disassociation of 
important? 

583
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,100
Part of that? 
That's a good question but I 

584
00:36:24,100 --> 00:36:27,100
can't give you a definitive 
answer that but you can imagine 

585
00:36:27,100 --> 00:36:31,000
with with post-traumatic stress.
You've got a similar, it's a 

586
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:35,100
different type of ingrained 
neural activity. 

587
00:36:35,100 --> 00:36:37,500
Right with depression. 
It's about you know - thinking 

588
00:36:37,500 --> 00:36:41,400
about yourself whatever right. 
Whereas with PTSD can imagine 

589
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:46,200
that as being a different it's 
directed somewhere else. 

590
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:50,000
It's Due to the trauma, you 
know, reliving the trauma and, 

591
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:55,900
and experiencing the, the, the, 
the negative emotional response 

592
00:36:55,900 --> 00:36:58,900
to that trauma. 
But again, you can think about 

593
00:36:58,900 --> 00:37:03,000
this is an ingrained pattern. 
The brain learns things. 

594
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:09,800
Very, very well remembers things
and attaches emotional effect to

595
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,000
experiences. 
So, you know, that's obviously 

596
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:18,100
very important in our evolution.
Is that we associate I ate the 

597
00:37:18,100 --> 00:37:20,700
bad things that happen to us, 
all good things, but 

598
00:37:20,700 --> 00:37:23,700
particularly bad things that 
happen to us, the brain will 

599
00:37:23,700 --> 00:37:30,600
attach emotions to them, which 
is obviously important in the 

600
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:32,400
future. 
Then if you encounter that same 

601
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,700
kind of situation again, you can
remember how bad it was and how 

602
00:37:35,700 --> 00:37:37,800
he you need to avoid it. 
And that's obviously very, very 

603
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,000
useful. 
If you want to avoid Predators 

604
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:44,200
for example, or you want to 
avoid the same kind of 

605
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,700
situations that got you in 
trouble, a lot Fine, it's good 

606
00:37:47,700 --> 00:37:49,800
to attach a negative emotion to 
that. 

607
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,800
Do you think that about ESD 
though because he was in the 

608
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:56,300
war? 
Do you think that living every 

609
00:37:56,300 --> 00:38:01,300
day through like shellings? 
And that that that anxiety and 

610
00:38:01,300 --> 00:38:07,000
fear every single day you're 
like creating that - Pathak or 

611
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,800
pathway or whatever we're 
talking about and then when they

612
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,500
come when when veterans come 
home they're so used to being 

613
00:38:13,500 --> 00:38:15,900
that. 
I'm that alert awareness level, 

614
00:38:15,900 --> 00:38:18,600
maybe they're a big tool has 
gone crazy or maybe something 

615
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:23,200
else but you know something like
yeah, yeah, precisely and I'm 

616
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:27,100
the brain will also there also 
be kind of adaptive responses to

617
00:38:27,100 --> 00:38:30,500
that that the brain will up, you
know, attempt to reset if you 

618
00:38:30,500 --> 00:38:34,600
like or readjust its level, so 
to speak. 

619
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:38,600
So there's I think there's a lot
of very complicated neural 

620
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:44,500
Behavior going on deep in the 
brain and so trying to get at 

621
00:38:44,500 --> 00:38:48,400
that and and deal with it. 
And kind of reset the brain and 

622
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:54,800
bring it back to a more stable 
and well-adjusted state. 

623
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,200
I think is is very difficult 
particularly because these 

624
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,200
patterns can become so 
ingrained. 

625
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,400
So what's great about 
psychedelics? 

626
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,800
As you can kind of loosen the 
whole system up, make it much 

627
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,000
more plastic and fluid. 
So, you can actually start to 

628
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,800
work with it more. 
Just like eating a piece of 

629
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:12,900
glass. 
You can then start to, as I 

630
00:39:12,900 --> 00:39:16,900
said, adjust it. 
So I think there's it's not Not 

631
00:39:16,900 --> 00:39:18,500
easy. 
There's no, it's not. 

632
00:39:18,500 --> 00:39:21,900
Like you have a psychedelic 
experience, you're suddenly 

633
00:39:21,900 --> 00:39:26,900
going to be cured from PTSD, or 
from depression or anxiety or 

634
00:39:26,900 --> 00:39:31,000
whatever, but it brings you into
a kind of primed state it, 

635
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:36,400
Prime's your brain for these 
kind of adjustments, these kind 

636
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:40,600
of resetting mechanisms these 
valuable in that way. 

637
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:47,100
So you definitely need the the 
experienced clinicians There as 

638
00:39:47,100 --> 00:39:49,500
well. 
I think to really get the most 

639
00:39:49,500 --> 00:39:52,600
of psychedelics. 
Awesome. 

640
00:39:53,700 --> 00:39:57,500
We got a couple questions from 
people, one from our buddy. 

641
00:39:57,500 --> 00:39:59,900
Kevin churko who's also a fan of
yours. 

642
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,400
He said he wouldn't be able to 
check in live but he wanted to 

643
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:09,300
know regarding the audio that 
you know the obviously of a 

644
00:40:09,300 --> 00:40:12,800
visual component of the DMT 
experience but what about the 

645
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,600
audio component? 
And he's wondering what the 

646
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,600
hell's making those. 
If this is all part of the 

647
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,700
visual cortex. 
What's making all those sounds 

648
00:40:19,700 --> 00:40:24,800
and synth sounds and delays. 
And he wanted to know how can 

649
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:29,800
you download those? 
Yeah, yeah, I mean this is a so 

650
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:34,500
obviously, with, with things 
like DMT, it is the visual 

651
00:40:34,500 --> 00:40:37,700
aspect that people are most 
interested in in, right? 

652
00:40:37,700 --> 00:40:41,500
But but it definitely, there is 
particularly at the the 

653
00:40:41,500 --> 00:40:45,000
beginning of the trip before you
become overwhelmed with the 

654
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,600
visual, there's often a 
particular kind of its kind of 

655
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,400
can't describe it like the 
high-pitch, ringing. 

656
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:57,000
Yeah, yeah, that kind of thing. 
So so obviously whilst the the 

657
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,600
visual cortex is primarily 
affected here. 

658
00:41:01,100 --> 00:41:05,400
There you have, your visual 
cortex has kind of sitting at 

659
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:09,800
the back of your brain, your the
auditory cortices are kind of 

660
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:14,800
aside, and then at the top you 
will you have where a lot of 

661
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:20,500
these Sensations are kind of 
brought together and unified, so

662
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:26,800
So it's certainly not the case. 
That DMT is only affecting the 

663
00:41:26,900 --> 00:41:31,400
the the visual cortices. 
There's no reason why it 

664
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,800
wouldn't also affect the ordered
recourse is to some degree. 

665
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:39,700
And in fact a lot of what we 
don't understand is why why is 

666
00:41:39,700 --> 00:41:43,700
the DMT such a visual experience
for example? 

667
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:49,700
Whereas die, diisopropyl 
tryptamine, I think it is I 

668
00:41:49,700 --> 00:41:52,200
forget what was it? 
High-profile trip to me, but one

669
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,800
of them but very closely. 
Remote related molecule, is 

670
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:59,300
primarily auditory. 
So here you get the kind of a 

671
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:05,900
drop in the, like the your 
auditory system is drop down an 

672
00:42:05,900 --> 00:42:11,400
octave, everything becomes much 
lower and slower so it's an 

673
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:16,100
auditory hallucination. 
If you like some hallucinogens, 

674
00:42:16,100 --> 00:42:21,600
I think it's maybe mono. 
Methyl tryptamine This is like 

675
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,500
DMT, but with one of those 
methyl groups on the nitrogen 

676
00:42:25,500 --> 00:42:30,500
removed, this is kind of a 
facial hallucinogen so it's 

677
00:42:30,500 --> 00:42:33,300
visual but not in the normal. 
Not in that, you actually see 

678
00:42:33,300 --> 00:42:35,800
Visions. 
But your perception of space 

679
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,600
space is altered and we don't 
really understand why. 

680
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,600
That is the case. 
People have thought about it 

681
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:50,900
looked at the kind of the neural
activation signatures and how it

682
00:42:51,100 --> 00:42:53,900
Affects gene expression in 
different parts of the brain and

683
00:42:53,900 --> 00:42:55,300
that kind of thing. 
But I don't think there's a 

684
00:42:55,308 --> 00:42:57,700
clear answer actually. 
Yeah. 

685
00:42:57,700 --> 00:43:04,100
As to why the visual aspects are
much much more prominent than 

686
00:43:04,100 --> 00:43:08,100
the the auditory aspects and why
certain molecules might actually

687
00:43:08,100 --> 00:43:11,300
flip that and give it give a 
more auditory experience. 

688
00:43:11,300 --> 00:43:16,900
But you know the your experience
of a world is multi-sensory. 

689
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,900
You are you obviously experience
we are primarily visual 

690
00:43:21,100 --> 00:43:24,500
Teachers. 
So, the vision our vision is by 

691
00:43:24,500 --> 00:43:33,000
far, our most important sense, 
but of course, the experience 

692
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,500
the subjective World also has an
auditory component and this can 

693
00:43:36,500 --> 00:43:45,000
be affected by by psychedelics 
as well, but I think, I guess 

694
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,100
with DMT. 
You're so overwhelmed with the 

695
00:43:48,100 --> 00:43:50,900
the visual aspect. 
I don't think many people focus.

696
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,500
Focus that much on the auditory 
aspect. 

697
00:43:53,500 --> 00:43:58,600
When you read trip reports 
beginning of the experience, 

698
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:02,900
people often describe the stone 
but thanks to your into that. 

699
00:44:02,900 --> 00:44:06,000
Once you kind of breakthrough 
and you're into this bizarre 

700
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,400
hyperdimensional world. 
The people don't send tend to 

701
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,700
report so much on the auditory 
aspects. 

702
00:44:11,700 --> 00:44:15,800
I think what you need is a 
really good study that focused 

703
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:19,300
on the auditory aspect and says,
forget about what you saw, if 

704
00:44:19,300 --> 00:44:26,500
you can and try, Focus on what 
you hear because that I think 

705
00:44:26,500 --> 00:44:30,100
that that would be a. 
It's a largely unexplored Avenue

706
00:44:30,500 --> 00:44:34,000
of research is what's going on 
with the auditory and how the 

707
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,500
kind of language is that these 
machine elves might be speaking 

708
00:44:37,500 --> 00:44:42,200
and kind of thing, I think it's 
a cool thing to think about. 

709
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:46,700
I just don't think we have much 
understanding of the order of 

710
00:44:46,700 --> 00:44:50,900
few aspects of the Psychedelic 
experience to be honest just 

711
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:57,400
Soon we've got another question 
from fig you or figure who does 

712
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,400
your cause us? 
We grid Theory. 

713
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:09,100
Necessitate a first cause God or
an unmoved mover I'm not sure. 

714
00:45:09,100 --> 00:45:14,700
I can even pass that first calls
god. 

715
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,600
Well, I mean, he's talking about
what did he call it? 

716
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:18,800
What kind of grid did he call 
it? 

717
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:27,500
Cause us, we sui grid Theory. 
Okay, is this Latin? 

718
00:45:27,508 --> 00:45:30,800
Is it? 
Sounds like a philosopher. 

719
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,100
Yeah. 
Writing in these Latin terms 

720
00:45:34,100 --> 00:45:37,100
here. 
Well I mean in Alien information

721
00:45:37,100 --> 00:45:42,000
Theory I posit and again this is
not my world view, I don't 

722
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,200
believe this to be necessarily 
the case but I posit the idea of

723
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:52,400
some Advanced hyper intelligence
that constructed this code from 

724
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:56,500
which our lower dimensional, 
slice emerged. 

725
00:45:57,300 --> 00:46:00,700
So I think it It could go both 
ways. 

726
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:06,800
I don't think it requires 
necessarily, I mean, you your 

727
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:11,100
kind of faced with the same 
problem in explaining the DMT 

728
00:46:11,100 --> 00:46:13,400
worlds or with my model, the DMT
worlds. 

729
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:17,200
As you are, as any person is 
trying to make sense of our 

730
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:22,800
existence, it's easy to kind of 
hand the problem to an 

731
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:28,900
omniscient and omnipotent and 
omnipresent being that created. 

732
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,300
Tool. 
It's like panspermia you could 

733
00:46:31,300 --> 00:46:34,100
say panspermia is where we came 
from but it doesn't ultimately 

734
00:46:34,100 --> 00:46:36,400
answer the question. 
Where does life right? 

735
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,600
You just pushing it back. 
Yeah, we panspermia pushing it 

736
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,000
back to another. 
So what can we can't solve the 

737
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,300
problem of abiogenesis? 
You know, the construction of 

738
00:46:45,300 --> 00:46:48,600
biology or the emergence of 
biology from non biological 

739
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:50,300
system on Earth. 
So we'll just say that it came 

740
00:46:50,300 --> 00:46:54,200
from somewhere else but then you
faced with the same problem but 

741
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:56,700
you've pushed it away 
successfully to a different 

742
00:46:56,700 --> 00:47:00,400
planet, which might It might 
that might help you in some 

743
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:02,000
ways. 
It might help you by might buy 

744
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:05,000
you some time if you don't think
that life could have emerged on 

745
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:09,900
this Earth within the time, 
constraints, when life would 

746
00:47:09,900 --> 00:47:14,300
have been, if would have been 
habitable to living organisms, 

747
00:47:14,300 --> 00:47:17,300
that might help them, but it 
doesn't get you to the root of 

748
00:47:17,300 --> 00:47:22,400
the issue of where we're living 
organisms emerge from in the 

749
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:25,200
first place. 
And I think it's the same kind 

750
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:28,500
of thing that we're doing here. 
Is that we could say, okay. 

751
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:32,200
That was some God. 
We can call it God, we can call 

752
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:37,000
it some alien super intelligence
that existed long before our 

753
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:43,500
universe emerged. 
But I don't think we're any 

754
00:47:43,500 --> 00:47:45,300
happier. 
Having said that, the, I think 

755
00:47:45,300 --> 00:47:48,100
we're still faced with or where 
did that God come from, and what

756
00:47:48,100 --> 00:47:51,800
is our relationship to that? 
So I think these are really 

757
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:55,200
fascinating things to think 
about, I don't rule out the idea

758
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:58,800
that we might the owl Universe 
might. 

759
00:47:58,900 --> 00:48:02,800
It needs cool think it's also 
kind of terrifying, right? 

760
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:08,700
The idea that our universe 
emerged was programmed by some 

761
00:48:09,900 --> 00:48:15,900
astonishingly intelligent 
superpowers very, very old 

762
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:20,200
extremely Advanced beer GPT 
that's who created. 

763
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:23,800
Well there you go, right? 
I mean, we're getting hints at a

764
00:48:23,808 --> 00:48:26,200
kind of a kind of intelligence, 
right. 

765
00:48:26,300 --> 00:48:31,300
Role does mid-journey art. 
Well, that that's kind of it, 

766
00:48:31,700 --> 00:48:36,000
you know, Terrance McKenna did 
say, you know, we are embedded 

767
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:39,300
in some kind of work of art, 
that's what I quote in Alien 

768
00:48:39,300 --> 00:48:42,700
information Theory. 
And I think you get that sense. 

769
00:48:42,700 --> 00:48:47,800
When you, when you use DMT, you 
you you are confronted with what

770
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:52,800
appears to be in an undeniable 
intelligence of unrecognizable 

771
00:48:52,900 --> 00:48:55,400
power. 
That it is. 

772
00:48:55,500 --> 00:48:58,600
It's easy to say, okay, this 
must be God. 

773
00:48:58,700 --> 00:49:03,400
I don't think necessarily must 
be God, but there is a real 

774
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,600
sense that you're dealing with 
something that is so 

775
00:49:06,900 --> 00:49:08,800
intelligent. 
That is so Advanced. 

776
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:12,400
So there's so Way Beyond 
anything that we could conceive 

777
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:19,800
of existing anything you could 
have imagined of existing before

778
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:23,800
you, you smoke the drug before 
you take them, the medicine. 

779
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:32,400
So to speak that, that in itself
is is why DMT is so horrifying 

780
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:35,300
and appalling is that you are, 
you're confronted with something

781
00:49:35,300 --> 00:49:41,800
that is that just shakes your 
fundamental Aunt ontological 

782
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:46,600
foundations, right? 
That we exist that we are the 

783
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:50,700
highest intelligence at least 
within our corner of the Milky 

784
00:49:50,700 --> 00:49:55,100
Way and that we do sit at the 
Pinnacle of what intelligence 

785
00:49:55,100 --> 00:49:57,300
looks like. 
And then to be confronted with 

786
00:49:57,300 --> 00:50:02,400
an intelligence that is orders 
of magnitude Way Beyond anything

787
00:50:02,500 --> 00:50:07,600
that our little human brain 
could ever dream of is, is 

788
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:12,200
horrifying You know what to do 
with that intelligence? 

789
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:15,500
You could just cast it as a god 
figure, if you are you can say, 

790
00:50:15,500 --> 00:50:18,400
okay, this is the all loving 
Creator. 

791
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:22,200
Our Lord and savior or whatever 
that might make you feel better.

792
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:26,500
But I don't think there's any 
real reason to believe that. 

793
00:50:26,500 --> 00:50:30,700
I think it's just as likely that
we're taught that we're dealing 

794
00:50:30,700 --> 00:50:36,700
with an intelligence that 
emerged somewhere emerged, in 

795
00:50:36,700 --> 00:50:42,200
some other orthogonal dimension 
in some orthogonal reality in 

796
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:46,500
some other place that has the 
reasons. 

797
00:50:46,500 --> 00:50:49,800
We don't really understand has 
this deep connection to our 

798
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:54,200
reality that we are this very, 
very thin slice of this much 

799
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:58,000
larger and much richer, and much
more complex structure within 

800
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:02,600
which these much older and more 
advanced intelligences have 

801
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:04,700
emerged. 
I don't think there's anything 

802
00:51:05,900 --> 00:51:12,200
Whoo-wee or mystical or even 
that far out or wild about that 

803
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:17,600
idea that there are other places
within which much high levels of

804
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:20,600
intelligence could have emerged.
I mean, even if it was, who 

805
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,200
gives a shit? 
Because we don't even know why 

806
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:24,600
we're here, right? 
This is weird. 

807
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:27,100
We're having this conversation 
through technology. 

808
00:51:27,100 --> 00:51:28,400
Who are you? 
What am I? 

809
00:51:28,500 --> 00:51:31,500
You know, like the fact that 
people don't even think about 

810
00:51:31,500 --> 00:51:34,200
that on a day-to-day basis is 
the most bizarre thing of all to

811
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:39,000
me is that People go through 
life is a cog in the machine and

812
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,700
don't even think twice. 
And yet, you know, there's a 

813
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:45,800
small portion of society like us
you know whether we're nerds or 

814
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,700
scientists or whatever. 
We're all thinking about the 

815
00:51:48,700 --> 00:51:51,500
stuff constantly. 
So I you know to the people that

816
00:51:51,500 --> 00:51:55,700
think that weird or you know woo
or whatever. 

817
00:51:55,700 --> 00:51:58,600
Who cares back off and what I 
agree? 

818
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:03,500
I mean yeah I who cares at all 
and I certainly don't and yes we

819
00:52:03,500 --> 00:52:09,000
are we we become Exist within a 
little prosaic bubble and assume

820
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,800
that this is what this is what 
reality is, right? 

821
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:16,000
This is just our little but we 
everyone knows that we were just

822
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:23,100
us this small green blue dot in 
a very very small corner of a 

823
00:52:23,100 --> 00:52:28,400
vast universe that in itself 
makes us not insignificant 

824
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:32,600
necessarily but makes us very 
very, very very small part of 

825
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:35,500
the full picture. 
Then if you add on, On the 

826
00:52:35,500 --> 00:52:40,400
possibility of other places. 
Other universe is other 

827
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:43,200
dimensions of reality that we 
just have. 

828
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:48,500
No, we have no conception of 
what I described in one of my 

829
00:52:48,500 --> 00:52:50,900
lectures recently. 
It's like if you were a 

830
00:52:50,900 --> 00:52:57,900
character within a 1990s, 
computer game or something, 

831
00:52:57,900 --> 00:53:01,800
right? 
And that reality would be the 

832
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:07,800
way that reality is in laws of 
physics that we The rule in that

833
00:53:07,900 --> 00:53:12,000
would be the way that you 
assumed reality was, you would, 

834
00:53:12,700 --> 00:53:18,600
you would have no conception of 
the fact that you were being 

835
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:24,000
programmed with, you know, by 
you that you are being 

836
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:29,200
programmed by some inconceivable
intelligence outside of the 

837
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:33,900
game, that was controlling the 
physics yet to us, that seems 

838
00:53:33,900 --> 00:53:35,600
perfectly. 
Obvious, right? 

839
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,300
Yeah, you write some code and 
you can control. 

840
00:53:38,300 --> 00:53:40,700
You can build the simulated 
World in 2 hours. 

841
00:53:40,700 --> 00:53:45,600
It's kind of a relatively Simple
Thing, any particularly Savvy 

842
00:53:46,300 --> 00:53:50,200
fifteen-year-old now could 
probably, you know he's good 

843
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:55,300
with computers probably code. 
Some kind of simple game control

844
00:53:55,300 --> 00:53:58,900
the physic, you know, some kind 
of basic physics engine to as 

845
00:53:58,900 --> 00:54:03,300
it's not difficult. 
So if you try and imagine us as 

846
00:54:03,300 --> 00:54:07,400
being within that system, We are
part of them, quite a relic. 

847
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:11,500
What we appears to us, to be a 
kind of a complex game if you 

848
00:54:11,500 --> 00:54:17,300
like and we have no idea, we 
have no way of conceiving what 

849
00:54:17,300 --> 00:54:19,900
might be out there. 
What might actually be 

850
00:54:19,900 --> 00:54:23,500
influencing Us in the same way 
that we might need can change a 

851
00:54:23,500 --> 00:54:26,800
line of code and you can alter 
the fundamental physics of this 

852
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:31,200
little universe that you're 
running on your laptop. 

853
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:35,100
The the character in the game 
would have no way. 

854
00:54:35,100 --> 00:54:39,000
Way of conceiving, how that 
could possibly work? 

855
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:42,900
It would be on, it would be 
beyond their imagination, it 

856
00:54:42,900 --> 00:54:46,800
would be on the Stranger than 
they can suppose, right? 

857
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:50,700
So I think that's the way to 
think about it is imagine us 

858
00:54:50,700 --> 00:54:55,200
being within that, not, I'm not 
saying that this is a simulation

859
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:57,700
by the way. 
I'm not saying that, but it's 

860
00:54:57,700 --> 00:55:01,400
that kind of relationship. 
If you like in that we have we 

861
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:04,900
simply have no idea. 
It's what is going on. 

862
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:08,600
Side about little prosaic 
reality and we can't make any 

863
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:12,500
judgments about the relationship
between our reality. 

864
00:55:12,500 --> 00:55:16,500
And that reality, whether it is 
a programmer programmed, kind of

865
00:55:16,508 --> 00:55:19,000
relationship or something very 
different. 

866
00:55:19,100 --> 00:55:22,900
We simply don't know, which is 
why I always say when you are, 

867
00:55:22,908 --> 00:55:26,600
when you are, when you're 
confronted with an apparent and 

868
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:29,800
extensible alien hyper 
intelligence in the DMT space, 

869
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:33,400
you need to be very careful 
because they could, well be 

870
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:38,600
exactly who they say they are. 
They might not be, they might 

871
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:42,100
really just be wild Fabrications
of the cortex, but I think we 

872
00:55:42,100 --> 00:55:45,100
have to be very careful about 
dismissing these things. 

873
00:55:45,300 --> 00:55:51,000
As me, a hallucination when they
have qualities, that would argue

874
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:55,700
against that, I think we could 
really be dealing with something

875
00:55:55,700 --> 00:56:00,900
that is truly beyond our, our 
ability to conceive. 

876
00:56:00,900 --> 00:56:06,600
And I think that in itself is a 
almost That where we might be 

877
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:13,400
able to actually interface with 
such a profound Advanced and 

878
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:19,100
old, and astonishingly 
sophisticated intelligence like 

879
00:56:19,100 --> 00:56:21,500
that. 
So I think, yeah, we yeah, yeah,

880
00:56:21,500 --> 00:56:25,800
yeah, yeah, we act. 
We have, we have to be careful 

881
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:30,100
about just believing those that 
would say, oh, actually 

882
00:56:30,100 --> 00:56:33,500
Neuroscience tells you, it's 
just a loose ination, your brain

883
00:56:33,500 --> 00:56:35,100
is amazing. 
It can do amazing things. 

884
00:56:35,100 --> 00:56:38,900
Things, you know, this kind of 
promissory science of, you know,

885
00:56:38,908 --> 00:56:42,200
we can't really explain 
everything yet, but don't worry.

886
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:44,700
We will here. 
And it's like, it's boring to, 

887
00:56:44,700 --> 00:56:47,600
like, to to anticipate. 
That science is just going to 

888
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:50,000
answer everything. 
At some point, is that's the 

889
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,100
bubbles bogus way out. 
And I hate that, and you'll see 

890
00:56:53,100 --> 00:56:56,100
a lot of that in a lot of the 
humanities. 

891
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:59,800
Because obviously with empirical
science, you have a better 

892
00:57:00,500 --> 00:57:05,100
understanding of the metaphysics
of those fields, you know, No. 

893
00:57:05,107 --> 00:57:08,500
But within the humanities it's a
lot more speculative and there's

894
00:57:08,500 --> 00:57:12,600
a lot less evidence so I know 
Leah maybe wanted to ask a 

895
00:57:12,607 --> 00:57:13,700
question. 
Go ahead Lee. 

896
00:57:14,700 --> 00:57:19,100
Yeah so my next question kind of
rides the coattails of what you 

897
00:57:19,100 --> 00:57:22,100
were just talking about around 
belief and I was wondering if 

898
00:57:22,100 --> 00:57:27,700
you could speak a little bit 
about how your beliefs on DMT 

899
00:57:27,700 --> 00:57:29,900
particularly may have changed 
over time. 

900
00:57:32,900 --> 00:57:38,500
I don't have the chance. 
I think they've matured That 

901
00:57:39,300 --> 00:57:44,100
they've matured in that good. 
I'm Les. 

902
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:52,400
I'm I'm still as confounded by 
DMT, as I was when I first 

903
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:57,900
smoked it, 20, 20 years ago. 
Maybe I still don't feel that. 

904
00:57:57,900 --> 00:57:59,900
We've gotten to the bottom of 
it. 

905
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:04,500
I think we're stuck with. 
We're kind of, we're still 

906
00:58:04,500 --> 00:58:09,400
scratching the surface. 
I think of what DMT means and I 

907
00:58:09,408 --> 00:58:15,600
think we're now there's no way 
yet whilst we understand a lot 

908
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:18,700
more about what's actually going
on in the brain. 

909
00:58:19,700 --> 00:58:23,800
That's what I kind of focused on
in the last decade or so is was 

910
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:29,000
actually going on in the brain. 
How is our world model changed 

911
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:32,600
when you when you smoked DMT 
think that's one Avenue of 

912
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:36,200
thinking. 
But in terms of the deontology, 

913
00:58:37,700 --> 00:58:41,500
These beings really are whether 
really we really are dealing 

914
00:58:41,500 --> 00:58:47,300
with intelligent conscious 
beings that exist from their own

915
00:58:47,300 --> 00:58:51,600
side, that are just as unable to
deny their existence as we are 

916
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:56,600
unable to deny hours. 
I don't wear in a position to 

917
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:59,700
make any kind of judgment. 
I try and keep this middle 

918
00:58:59,700 --> 00:59:01,400
ground. 
This agnostic. 

919
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:06,200
No I mean as I said an elf 
agnostic I think soon as you put

920
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:07,400
yourself. 
Whoa. 

921
00:59:07,900 --> 00:59:09,600
That's what got me in trouble, 
bro. 

922
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:12,900
That's what got you in trouble. 
Okay, agnostic. 

923
00:59:12,900 --> 00:59:17,500
Yeah, but with Terrence said, 
what would times K? 

924
00:59:17,500 --> 00:59:21,100
Well, I think Terrence well, 
despite what? 

925
00:59:21,100 --> 00:59:24,200
He might have said. 
I think he was also an elf 

926
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:26,700
agnostic actually from what he 
was talking about. 

927
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:29,100
He now it was never made 
ticular. 

928
00:59:29,100 --> 00:59:33,900
Assertions about what he 
speculated about what we could 

929
00:59:33,900 --> 00:59:38,200
be dealing with. 
But I think as soon as You place

930
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:40,500
yourself into one camp or 
another. 

931
00:59:40,500 --> 00:59:42,500
You say, okay? 
This is just a loser nation is 

932
00:59:42,500 --> 00:59:46,300
your brain, making it up. 
Bloody bloody blah or if you go 

933
00:59:46,300 --> 00:59:48,400
to the other day this is 
definitely. 

934
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:52,300
These are definitely demons or 
these are definitely plant 

935
00:59:52,300 --> 00:59:57,300
Spirits or these are definitely 
Jin's or I don't know, right? 

936
00:59:57,300 --> 01:00:01,100
What some of the creature of the
netherworlds. 

937
01:00:01,700 --> 01:00:06,900
Once you do that, once you place
yourself in either Camp, then 

938
01:00:06,900 --> 01:00:08,700
well, where do you go? 
From there, you've already made 

939
01:00:08,700 --> 01:00:10,700
it your mind, right? 
You already know the truth. 

940
01:00:11,700 --> 01:00:14,600
So what's the point in having a 
discussion? 

941
01:00:14,700 --> 01:00:19,800
I always try to tread that 
middle ground of agnosticism, 

942
01:00:20,100 --> 01:00:25,400
where I don't claim that we are 
dealing with, actual autonomous,

943
01:00:25,700 --> 01:00:28,200
conscious intelligences. 
And I certainly don't claim the 

944
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:32,500
opposite that we're not. 
And to me, that seems to be the 

945
01:00:32,508 --> 01:00:40,200
most responsible and rational 
Really position to take bearing 

946
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:42,700
in mind, what we actually 
understand and what we don't 

947
01:00:42,700 --> 01:00:47,500
understand and and ultimately I 
expect it will be the most 

948
01:00:47,500 --> 01:00:50,900
productive as well in the end. 
It might turn out that we can 

949
01:00:50,900 --> 01:00:54,600
explain absolutely everything 
about DMT without having to 

950
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:58,600
invoke autonomous intelligence 
has a, but it might turn out 

951
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:02,000
that we can't and that we might 
have to confront the 

952
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:05,100
unthinkable. 
Well, what for many people would

953
01:01:05,100 --> 01:01:07,400
be. 
Unthinkable, which is that not 

954
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:09,800
only, we not the only 
intelligence within this 

955
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:14,500
universe, but actually that we 
might be a very, very early on a

956
01:01:14,508 --> 01:01:19,400
very, very low level compared to
intelligences outside of our 

957
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:23,400
thin slice of reality with whom 
we can communicate, right? 

958
01:01:23,500 --> 01:01:28,600
I mean, can you imagine anything
more anything more profound than

959
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:31,700
that, the good. 
That would be the greatest 

960
01:01:31,700 --> 01:01:34,100
discovery in the history of 
humankind, right? 

961
01:01:34,100 --> 01:01:39,100
Mean, fuck the wheel. 
I mean, we're talking about, you

962
01:01:39,100 --> 01:01:43,100
know, that the discovery of I 
love Wheels, by the way, 

963
01:01:43,100 --> 01:01:47,500
four-wheel lovers. 
But, you know, you know, just, 

964
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:50,700
you know, the idea that they're 
not only are their intelligence 

965
01:01:50,700 --> 01:01:54,400
is outside of our universe, not 
just in our universe. 

966
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:57,400
And that would, I think most of 
us accept is almost a certainty,

967
01:01:58,100 --> 01:02:01,700
but not only are, their 
intelligence is outside of our 

968
01:02:01,700 --> 01:02:05,200
universe or somehow alongside, 
or our universe. 

969
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:08,500
So, my orthogonal to our 
universe, not only did they 

970
01:02:08,500 --> 01:02:14,200
exist that we actually have a 
very simple means of actually 

971
01:02:14,200 --> 01:02:18,700
communicating with them that 
doesn't require firing pulses of

972
01:02:18,700 --> 01:02:21,800
electromagnetic, radiation 
across the heavens, waiting for 

973
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:24,300
three-quarters of a million 
years for a reply. 

974
01:02:24,900 --> 01:02:28,700
But some that's a good that's a 
good point. 

975
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:31,600
I mean, this is actually what 
you're saying is actually very 

976
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:35,000
relevant right now in the u.s. 
we have, all these balloons or 

977
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:37,500
God God knows what that the 
other three things were. 

978
01:02:39,900 --> 01:02:42,400
People are looking to the skies 
are looking for the government 

979
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:43,100
to tell him. 
Yes! 

980
01:02:43,100 --> 01:02:46,400
No, Maybe. 
So when we have this thing that 

981
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:50,500
we all produce in our bodies, 
but you can also enjoy the 

982
01:02:50,500 --> 01:02:52,900
Exotic genus version of it, 
which will put you in 

983
01:02:52,900 --> 01:02:55,600
communication with something 
otherworldly. 

984
01:02:55,600 --> 01:03:00,600
Now, whether that comes from 
within or its external, nobody 

985
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:04,100
knows, but I think it's an 
important point to point out 

986
01:03:04,100 --> 01:03:07,400
her, it's important to point. 
Out that we're all looking to 

987
01:03:07,408 --> 01:03:10,600
the skies, when maybe we should 
be looking within or looking up,

988
01:03:11,100 --> 01:03:12,200
I agree. 
Yeah. 

989
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:17,200
Yeah. 
I mean, you know the fact is, is

990
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:20,700
that if there is intelligence 
elsewhere in the universe, which

991
01:03:20,700 --> 01:03:27,600
their own certainly is the, the,
the vast proportion of that is 

992
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:33,000
likely to be post biological 
the, the, the proportion of life

993
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:39,000
that exists in this, this Very 
brief technological wet bodied. 

994
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:43,600
Wet brained phase is likely to 
be very, very small. 

995
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:48,400
Because, once a, an intelligence
reaches, the stage where they 

996
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:54,300
can conceive of becoming, some 
kind of artificial intelligence 

997
01:03:54,300 --> 01:03:57,500
is where we are now, right? 
I mean, everyone's talking about

998
01:03:57,500 --> 01:04:01,000
artificial intelligence recent 
recently and everyone's familiar

999
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:04,500
with the idea that we might one 
day be able to kind of dispense 

1000
01:04:04,500 --> 01:04:08,400
with our Physical form and 
instantiate ourselves in some 

1001
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:12,400
way in a, some kind of 
artificial intelligence for 

1002
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:17,100
more, some kind of digital form.
Once you reach that stage where 

1003
01:04:17,100 --> 01:04:21,200
you can conceive of it, you're 
probably only a few hundred 

1004
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:23,200
years from actually achieving 
it. 

1005
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:26,200
You know, these things tend to 
happen, they accelerate, right? 

1006
01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:29,100
So we might be much closer than 
we imagine. 

1007
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:34,400
So, the chances of catching a 
man in discovering and 

1008
01:04:34,408 --> 01:04:38,000
intelligence, Since that are 
that is kind of in the still in 

1009
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:43,200
the that narrow technological 
face obviously before, then, 

1010
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:46,600
there's no way to communicate 
with them because they're going 

1011
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:48,400
to be trapped on that little 
planet. 

1012
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:51,700
Just like we are they're not 
going to be if they're in a pre 

1013
01:04:51,700 --> 01:04:53,200
technological phase. 
They're not going to be 

1014
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:54,700
communicating across the 
heavens. 

1015
01:04:54,700 --> 01:04:58,000
Right? 
So what but then you reach this 

1016
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:00,700
technological phase, where we 
are now which might only last a 

1017
01:05:00,707 --> 01:05:03,300
few hundred years where we can 
start thinking about 

1018
01:05:03,300 --> 01:05:06,600
communicating with the heavens. 
So So that's kind of what the 

1019
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:10,500
seti program is looking for. 
Its looking for those beings 

1020
01:05:10,500 --> 01:05:13,900
that happened to be within that 
very brief. 

1021
01:05:13,900 --> 01:05:17,800
Temporal window when they are 
when they can be communicated 

1022
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:21,800
with once. 
They transcend the biological 

1023
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:26,700
form and become post biological,
then they're going to be 

1024
01:05:26,700 --> 01:05:29,500
effectively completely 
transparent to the normal modes 

1025
01:05:29,500 --> 01:05:32,500
of communication. 
You're not going to be 

1026
01:05:32,500 --> 01:05:35,100
communicating with 
electromagnetic radiation. 

1027
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:38,100
Radiation that is extremely 
unlikely. 

1028
01:05:38,100 --> 01:05:40,900
Tell we need to know. 
We need to Despair and steady 

1029
01:05:40,900 --> 01:05:44,400
and invest all that money into 
DM TX that's my purse, right? 

1030
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:46,600
Exactly. 
So so the point size is what 

1031
01:05:47,300 --> 01:05:51,400
lets us? 
Let's let him finish his thought

1032
01:05:58,700 --> 01:06:01,400
and Beyond is likely to be post 
biological. 

1033
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:04,100
And so we need to think about. 
Well, what's the best way to 

1034
01:06:04,100 --> 01:06:06,600
communicate with the post? 
Logical intelligence. 

1035
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:12,300
And it's my position that 
psychedelics might be the way of

1036
01:06:12,300 --> 01:06:16,300
achieving that somehow gating 
the flow of information from 

1037
01:06:16,300 --> 01:06:19,900
these normally transparent and 
hidden. 

1038
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:25,500
And apparently non-existent 
beings that psychedelics might 

1039
01:06:25,500 --> 01:06:28,600
be the mode with which we 
communicate with them and much 

1040
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:32,000
quicker. 
Much more efficient than trying 

1041
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:33,500
to communicate across the 
cosmos. 

1042
01:06:33,500 --> 01:06:35,500
That was my final thought Not 
yet. 

1043
01:06:35,500 --> 01:06:40,200
Quantum entanglement or yeah 
sigh whatever you want to call 

1044
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:43,800
it. 
I'm on board with the especially

1045
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:48,400
since they were going to call 
Ayahuasca telepathy initially 

1046
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:51,600
because and I know our buddies, 
the dreaming Jaguars 

1047
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:55,200
participated in that experiment 
that David Luke was doing with 

1048
01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:58,700
to see if they could you know 
connect via. 

1049
01:06:58,700 --> 01:07:00,600
That's why I find all that or 
actress T. 

1050
01:07:01,100 --> 01:07:03,400
I don't know. 
I never saw the results, we had 

1051
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:06,600
them on right after I forgot. 
I think we were waiting this for

1052
01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:09,200
the paper to come out so I'd 
have to go back and check with 

1053
01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:11,400
them. 
But yeah, yeah. 

1054
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:14,500
Well I do want to talk about DMT
X. 

1055
01:07:14,500 --> 01:07:21,300
So we had we had Daniel McQueen 
on about a year ago, for his 

1056
01:07:21,300 --> 01:07:23,800
release of his book, 
psychedelic, cannabis, which I 

1057
01:07:23,808 --> 01:07:27,200
highly recommend if you like 
cannabis and Edibles and things 

1058
01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:31,400
like that, it's a great guide 
for that. 

1059
01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:33,600
But yeah. 
So so why don't you tell us a 

1060
01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:36,100
little bit about DMT X. 
Whereas, It going what's going 

1061
01:07:36,100 --> 01:07:40,200
on with it. 
That whole thing, Yes, I was a 

1062
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:44,700
call with Daniel Quinn just last
week, actually, and with Chris 

1063
01:07:44,700 --> 01:07:50,300
Timmerman, who's heading up the,
the DMT X program at Imperial 

1064
01:07:50,300 --> 01:07:54,000
College in London. 
They've just completed the, the 

1065
01:07:54,000 --> 01:08:01,500
first trial in humans, DMT X for
30 minutes. 

1066
01:08:03,700 --> 01:08:05,300
I think the paper will be 
published. 

1067
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:08,100
I think it's been submitted and 
accepted maybe so it should be 

1068
01:08:08,100 --> 01:08:11,000
out. 
Time this year, hopefully that 

1069
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:14,800
will give obviously the kind of 
the full, the full results. 

1070
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:19,200
One, what? 
Clear from what was originally? 

1071
01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:24,300
My aim going kind of back to the
original idea, back in 2015 and 

1072
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:29,100
the paper, I wrote with Rick 
Strassman, the idea was that you

1073
01:08:29,100 --> 01:08:35,800
can you can take this brief 
roller coaster, trip of DMT and 

1074
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:37,899
stabilize it. 
Bring someone in. 

1075
01:08:37,899 --> 01:08:42,000
Do Buddy into the DMT State, 
maintain a stable, brain 

1076
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:45,800
concentration over time 
basically hold them within the 

1077
01:08:45,808 --> 01:08:50,500
space with the with the ultimate
aim being that the state would 

1078
01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:56,000
stabilize to some extent over 
time as your brain adapts to 

1079
01:08:56,000 --> 01:09:01,100
constructing this altered World 
model and that that would then 

1080
01:09:01,100 --> 01:09:03,600
allow you to perform much more 
extensive. 

1081
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:08,899
Exploration and navigation and 
experimentation within the So 

1082
01:09:09,500 --> 01:09:12,500
you can imagine a whole new 
field of research would be 

1083
01:09:12,500 --> 01:09:18,600
opened up by that just like when
we learned how to deep sea dive 

1084
01:09:18,899 --> 01:09:22,399
or send those subs down to the 
bottom of the ocean, that allows

1085
01:09:22,399 --> 01:09:26,899
you then to opens up a whole new
field of research with so many 

1086
01:09:26,899 --> 01:09:30,700
things, new things to explore 
and test stand and that kind of 

1087
01:09:30,700 --> 01:09:32,700
thing. 
So that was the idea originally 

1088
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:38,399
and from what we know, I haven't
seen all of the results yet. 

1089
01:09:38,500 --> 01:09:42,300
Yet that seems to have been 
borne out in that what the 

1090
01:09:42,300 --> 01:09:46,100
Imperial team were able to do is
to bring somebody into the space

1091
01:09:46,200 --> 01:09:49,700
and actually maintain a 
consistent intensity of 

1092
01:09:49,700 --> 01:09:52,600
experience at several dose 
levels. 

1093
01:09:53,300 --> 01:09:56,100
So they can bring someone into a
more kind of shallow sub, 

1094
01:09:56,100 --> 01:09:59,200
breakthrough State and hold them
there, or they can push them all

1095
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:02,400
the way through into the full 
breakthrough, Visionary State 

1096
01:10:03,200 --> 01:10:06,600
and, and maintain that for about
30 minutes. 

1097
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:09,200
And there's no evidence that it 
would, you know, It couldn't be 

1098
01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:12,400
extended for an hour or two 
hours or three hours. 

1099
01:10:12,700 --> 01:10:15,200
So we now have this, this 
amazing technology. 

1100
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:20,100
I think that really opens up the
DMT space. 

1101
01:10:20,100 --> 01:10:23,800
Now we can start to think about 
those those questions about. 

1102
01:10:23,900 --> 01:10:27,800
Can we establish Tim you two way
communication with these machine

1103
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:29,600
elves, can we ask them 
questions? 

1104
01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:32,600
Can we can we get information 
from them? 

1105
01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:34,800
Can be perform experiments in 
the space. 

1106
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:37,200
All this kind of stuff. 
It's kind of exciting. 

1107
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:42,000
Do you do you still experiment 
your side? 

1108
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:46,700
I mean obviously you can say 
what you want or don't but do 

1109
01:10:46,700 --> 01:10:50,800
you still experiment and when 
you experiment do you steal? 

1110
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:57,800
You try to investigate these 
worlds still or well I mean 

1111
01:10:58,000 --> 01:11:01,800
personally I mean I've had many 
experiences I'll talk about the 

1112
01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:11,600
past rather than the present but
I I'm as I'm not a great 

1113
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:17,200
psychonaut in that. 
I haven't discovered some 

1114
01:11:17,200 --> 01:11:23,100
amazing technique to navigate 
the space or to explore the 

1115
01:11:23,100 --> 01:11:27,000
space or any any more than 
anyone else who uses DMT 

1116
01:11:27,300 --> 01:11:30,500
reasonably frequently or 
infrequently. 

1117
01:11:31,200 --> 01:11:35,900
I think there's a lot of what 
would you call it? 

1118
01:11:37,500 --> 01:11:40,900
Kind of underground science that
goes on around, which I think is

1119
01:11:40,900 --> 01:11:45,500
quite valuable Beyond side from 
the kind of the academic stuff, 

1120
01:11:45,500 --> 01:11:48,700
which I was involved in the DMT 
X stuff. 

1121
01:11:48,700 --> 01:11:51,900
I think the people are 
discovering now developing their

1122
01:11:51,900 --> 01:11:56,200
own techniques for for exploring
the space. 

1123
01:11:56,200 --> 01:12:01,600
You know, using these these vape
pens, these dab rigs think they 

1124
01:12:01,600 --> 01:12:04,700
call them or, you know, these 
e-liquids now which they 

1125
01:12:04,700 --> 01:12:06,900
dissolve the DMT in and, you 
know, yeah, I know. 

1126
01:12:07,100 --> 01:12:11,100
No, I've never done it but I 
know that the DMT pens actually 

1127
01:12:11,100 --> 01:12:15,100
preserve it. 
Longer from, from what I 

1128
01:12:15,100 --> 01:12:16,900
understand. 
Dick Khan who was a pretty 

1129
01:12:16,900 --> 01:12:21,500
intense psychonaut gave us the 
the DL on that. 

1130
01:12:21,500 --> 01:12:24,200
He said that, I don't know how 
much longer, but he said a lot 

1131
01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:27,500
longer. 
So I guess a yeah, preserves her

1132
01:12:27,500 --> 01:12:30,800
stuff so, Yeah, yeah. 
It's I think this is very 

1133
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:33,400
effective. 
I'm all for alternate modes of 

1134
01:12:33,400 --> 01:12:36,700
administration. 
I think we need to treat DMT as 

1135
01:12:36,700 --> 01:12:41,600
the technology that I think it 
is really and bring our best 

1136
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:44,600
technological tools to the table
here. 

1137
01:12:44,600 --> 01:12:50,100
I don't think we should get too 
attached to any particular mode 

1138
01:12:50,100 --> 01:12:53,500
of administration and I know 
some people have kind of bad 

1139
01:12:53,500 --> 01:12:58,900
feelings about injection or 
bringing in electronic 

1140
01:12:59,100 --> 01:13:01,700
equipment, trying to administer 
DMT. 

1141
01:13:01,700 --> 01:13:04,000
I don't see that as a problem at
all. 

1142
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:06,800
I think we should. 
It's I see that as being much 

1143
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:13,200
more respectful to the, to the 
DMT experience itself in that we

1144
01:13:13,200 --> 01:13:17,800
are trying our best to not just 
kind of burst into their realm 

1145
01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:20,400
for a few seconds and then you 
know, for a couple of minutes 

1146
01:13:20,700 --> 01:13:23,200
and look around wide-eyed. 
Say what the fuck man? 

1147
01:13:23,300 --> 01:13:28,900
This is cool and then bugger off
again, but actually to develop 

1148
01:13:29,100 --> 01:13:31,900
It as a technology and learn to 
use it. 

1149
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:35,800
I think that's all part of the 
process of developing DMT as a 

1150
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:37,800
technology. 
And I think we should embrace 

1151
01:13:38,100 --> 01:13:43,000
any new techniques that people 
discover for for navigating and 

1152
01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:46,700
maintaining our presence within 
the space for much longer 

1153
01:13:46,700 --> 01:13:50,400
periods of time. 
Whether it's using this infusion

1154
01:13:50,400 --> 01:13:54,400
technology which is not going to
be accessible for 99% of the 

1155
01:13:54,400 --> 01:13:57,700
population. 
But certainly these vape pens 

1156
01:13:57,700 --> 01:14:01,300
are And they're much safer as 
well and much. 

1157
01:14:01,300 --> 01:14:03,700
You have much better control, 
you're not burning it. 

1158
01:14:03,700 --> 01:14:08,500
You're not you don't have naked 
Flames to worry about, you can 

1159
01:14:08,500 --> 01:14:11,000
do it. 
You know, have this small device

1160
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:13,900
that is very safe. 
It's not going to blow up if 

1161
01:14:13,900 --> 01:14:17,700
it's a good quality one and you 
can you can read do sad 

1162
01:14:17,700 --> 01:14:22,000
intervals and Main kind of keep 
yourself within that within that

1163
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:24,100
within that level. 
So, I think, yeah, I'm all for 

1164
01:14:24,100 --> 01:14:27,500
DMT vape pens but you should 
make them yourself. 

1165
01:14:27,500 --> 01:14:30,400
I mean, if I do I think people 
should be buying them off the 

1166
01:14:30,400 --> 01:14:31,500
internet. 
I think. 

1167
01:14:31,500 --> 01:14:34,000
It's so if anything else, you 
know, test. 

1168
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:36,600
You should if, if you are 
getting it from. 

1169
01:14:36,900 --> 01:14:40,200
Yeah, if you're getting it from 
anything, that's, you know, like

1170
01:14:40,200 --> 01:14:44,400
obviously, cannabis mushrooms, 
if you're well-versed cycle. 

1171
01:14:44,400 --> 01:14:47,800
Now, those are pretty easy to 
investigate, but when it comes 

1172
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:51,800
to powders and things like that,
especially given the state of 

1173
01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:55,000
Fentanyl and people chop it up 
Fentanyl, and all sorts of 

1174
01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:56,700
things. 
Just test your shit. 

1175
01:14:56,800 --> 01:15:00,400
I've had friends die. 
I had friends of friends die. 

1176
01:15:00,400 --> 01:15:03,500
Lots of people. 
I know my community growing up 

1177
01:15:03,500 --> 01:15:08,100
so yeah, just chest your shit. 
But listen, Lee has got a bounce

1178
01:15:08,100 --> 01:15:09,300
out here. 
We're going to continue on for a

1179
01:15:09,308 --> 01:15:13,100
little bit but I just wanted to 
let Lee ago gracefully as she 

1180
01:15:13,100 --> 01:15:15,600
requested. 
Thank you and thank you so much 

1181
01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:18,800
Leah for joining us. 
I know she would have some good 

1182
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:22,100
questions for Andrew and I 
enjoyed being in Leah's book 

1183
01:15:22,100 --> 01:15:24,800
club where we read alien 
information Theory. 

1184
01:15:25,400 --> 01:15:28,500
So check out Leah online at at 
Lea Prime on Twitter. 

1185
01:15:29,100 --> 01:15:33,900
She is a sub stack and she also 
does a podcast on YouTube called

1186
01:15:33,900 --> 01:15:36,200
The Invisible night school 
weekly. 

1187
01:15:36,300 --> 01:15:41,900
Check that out as well thinking 
like Andrew, thank you so much. 

1188
01:15:41,900 --> 01:15:45,900
It was a pleasure, thank you, 
thank you, thank you, always 

1189
01:15:45,900 --> 01:15:48,800
good to see you. 
I'm having some back spasms. 

1190
01:15:48,800 --> 01:15:51,200
So that's why I'm kind of 
wiggling around your phone, I 

1191
01:15:51,208 --> 01:15:53,200
consider. 
So, I'm gonna bounce as well as 

1192
01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:54,600
great to meet you. 
Thank you for answering that 

1193
01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:57,000
question. 
You're welcome. 

1194
01:15:57,100 --> 01:15:58,900
Thank you. 
All right, Shane. 

1195
01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:00,800
You go get your back taken care 
of. 

1196
01:16:02,100 --> 01:16:07,200
All right, nerd time no I'm just
joking but I do want to get to. 

1197
01:16:08,300 --> 01:16:12,200
I do want to get to some of the 
other stuff that I mentioned 

1198
01:16:12,200 --> 01:16:15,700
earlier. 
So in terms of the whole machine

1199
01:16:15,700 --> 01:16:19,800
of thing so I don't know if you 
know people follow if everybody 

1200
01:16:19,800 --> 01:16:22,100
that follows us on Twitter, I'm 
sure they know I mentioned 

1201
01:16:22,100 --> 01:16:28,300
something kind of cryptically 
about it on my own feed but you 

1202
01:16:28,400 --> 01:16:31,500
somebody put out a video talking
about machine elves and how 

1203
01:16:31,500 --> 01:16:36,200
their Just in your head and it's
just a by-product or you know, 

1204
01:16:36,200 --> 01:16:40,700
who is Nations, you know, or 
your brain causing these 

1205
01:16:40,700 --> 01:16:43,100
hallucinations and you 
interacting with them Bubba. 

1206
01:16:43,100 --> 01:16:45,800
Bubba blah. 
You know, we don't have to name 

1207
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:49,000
this person or whatever. 
But so then you responded and 

1208
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:52,200
kind of just like a funny goofy 
way which you do to a lot of 

1209
01:16:52,200 --> 01:16:53,500
things. 
You do it to my place. 

1210
01:16:53,500 --> 01:16:55,000
I've seen you do it, a lot of 
people's posts. 

1211
01:16:55,000 --> 01:16:58,200
I just didn't I didn't see any 
harm in what you posted and all 

1212
01:16:58,200 --> 01:17:00,900
the sudden this dude goes on 
like a Warpath and starts like 

1213
01:17:00,900 --> 01:17:03,300
attacking you. 
You your books, your work 

1214
01:17:03,700 --> 01:17:05,800
calling your stuff, 
pseudoscience and your 

1215
01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:10,200
convincing people that there's 
these living breathing elves in 

1216
01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:13,000
these Realms and Bubba. 
And like, obviously this dude 

1217
01:17:13,000 --> 01:17:16,400
hasn't read your books now. 
Yeah, sadly. 

1218
01:17:16,400 --> 01:17:19,400
No didn't really have a 
philosophical bone in his body 

1219
01:17:19,400 --> 01:17:24,100
from what I saw. 
So yeah, I mean I thought you 

1220
01:17:24,100 --> 01:17:25,800
handled it really well. 
I mean you weren't mean or 

1221
01:17:25,808 --> 01:17:30,000
anything, even though he kept 
attacking you, what do you 

1222
01:17:30,008 --> 01:17:31,600
think's going on? 
There is there. 

1223
01:17:32,300 --> 01:17:34,600
Is there a certain set of 
Academia? 

1224
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:39,600
That's very dogmatic. 
That these are manifestations in

1225
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:41,800
the mind and maybe some of these
people are getting irritated 

1226
01:17:41,800 --> 01:17:45,900
because of some of the more 
speculative or metaphysical 

1227
01:17:45,900 --> 01:17:48,800
talks or met you know 
metaphysics or whatever. 

1228
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:50,200
I mean like what's going on 
there? 

1229
01:17:50,800 --> 01:17:53,700
Yeah I think the that's 
certainly an element that I 

1230
01:17:53,700 --> 01:17:58,800
think people like to be certain 
types of people any way they 

1231
01:17:58,800 --> 01:18:06,600
like to be right about things 
they like like to feel that they

1232
01:18:06,700 --> 01:18:12,300
have got kind of a handle on the
truth and they don't like anyone

1233
01:18:12,300 --> 01:18:16,500
questioning that and certainly 
when it comes to machine elves, 

1234
01:18:16,500 --> 01:18:19,000
we know what I mean. 
Basically, there's a bit of 

1235
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:23,100
background, he, he made a video 
that claimed that the machine 

1236
01:18:23,100 --> 01:18:26,500
elves are kind of a common 
argument, which is that they 

1237
01:18:26,500 --> 01:18:31,000
are, I am a canner affect. 
The people started seeing elves 

1238
01:18:31,000 --> 01:18:35,900
and elf like In the DMT State 
because they had heard Terence 

1239
01:18:35,900 --> 01:18:42,100
McKenna talking about elves. 
And that in fact, all it is is 

1240
01:18:42,100 --> 01:18:45,500
just your brain. 
Your brain, that old tired 

1241
01:18:45,500 --> 01:18:47,200
argument, that your brain is 
amazing. 

1242
01:18:47,200 --> 01:18:50,400
It can you no idea about the 
potential things that your brain

1243
01:18:50,400 --> 01:18:52,600
can create? 
We don't know half of it. 

1244
01:18:52,700 --> 01:18:55,200
That's where the machine else 
are, you know, in that little 

1245
01:18:55,200 --> 01:18:57,200
black box that we don't 
understand yet. 

1246
01:18:57,200 --> 01:19:01,400
But don't worry, we will at some
point in the future, that's not 

1247
01:19:01,400 --> 01:19:03,100
typically sad. 
Ice Factory to me. 

1248
01:19:03,100 --> 01:19:07,600
And I pointed that out that it's
not acceptable or not. 

1249
01:19:08,300 --> 01:19:10,800
Convincing for me when someone 
is says. 

1250
01:19:10,900 --> 01:19:13,600
Oh it's just your, you know, 
your brain is is more 

1251
01:19:13,600 --> 01:19:18,400
complicated than we can suppose.
You know that that gate its ass 

1252
01:19:18,400 --> 01:19:22,700
make, its throwing all of the 
things we don't know into this 

1253
01:19:22,700 --> 01:19:26,800
big box of promissory science 
that will eventually will kind 

1254
01:19:26,800 --> 01:19:32,700
of get to explaining so that 
I've never been Convinced by 

1255
01:19:32,700 --> 01:19:36,400
that approached, to what we 
can't explain and odor. 

1256
01:19:36,400 --> 01:19:40,300
And also his assertion that the,
it's a McKenna. 

1257
01:19:40,300 --> 01:19:43,400
Effect mean that's something 
I've dealt with several times in

1258
01:19:43,400 --> 01:19:47,000
the past. 
You know, I wrote a long essay 

1259
01:19:47,100 --> 01:19:51,400
that involved a discussion of 
this back in 2016 or something. 

1260
01:19:51,400 --> 01:19:55,400
So I'm not new to this argument,
you know, only what I found. 

1261
01:19:55,500 --> 01:19:58,700
I found I found the most 
interesting thing was he felt 

1262
01:19:58,700 --> 01:20:01,600
like you were attacking his 
research. 

1263
01:20:01,600 --> 01:20:05,100
He Said, but in reality, he was 
just taking a common Trope, 

1264
01:20:05,100 --> 01:20:09,800
which is that that came from 
McKenna, calling it as research 

1265
01:20:09,800 --> 01:20:12,600
and then being offended that you
opposed it which was just a 

1266
01:20:12,608 --> 01:20:14,700
bizarre. 
It was the whole thing, just 

1267
01:20:14,700 --> 01:20:17,200
started off as like a 
miscommunication on bizarre foot

1268
01:20:17,200 --> 01:20:21,100
and then you have a couple other
psychedelic academics chime in 

1269
01:20:21,100 --> 01:20:23,600
like hey I love both of you. 
Can we just figure this out by 

1270
01:20:23,600 --> 01:20:25,300
blah blah? 
Like that's all nice and 

1271
01:20:25,300 --> 01:20:27,700
wonderful but how about somebody
having your fucking back? 

1272
01:20:27,700 --> 01:20:31,900
Grow a fuck like Jesus like II 
put out. 

1273
01:20:32,100 --> 01:20:33,900
Cryptic Twigs. 
I don't want to drink bring more

1274
01:20:33,900 --> 01:20:36,300
attention to it, but I'm just 
waiting for somebody bigger to 

1275
01:20:36,300 --> 01:20:41,000
be like, hey, calm down, you 
know, this is, you know, this is

1276
01:20:41,000 --> 01:20:43,100
not how you do this. 
You have a, you either have a 

1277
01:20:43,100 --> 01:20:46,200
debate or you have. 
Look, I've seen you disagree 

1278
01:20:46,200 --> 01:20:47,000
with people. 
I heard. 

1279
01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:49,700
I saw you had a disagreement I 
think on psychedelics today with

1280
01:20:49,700 --> 01:20:53,800
Peter sure stat about your first
book and I don't know. 

1281
01:20:53,800 --> 01:20:57,300
Yeah, I don't think that that 
was like, malicious you guys 

1282
01:20:57,800 --> 01:20:59,800
disagree. 
I'm sure you still disagree, but

1283
01:20:59,800 --> 01:21:02,200
that doesn't change the fact 
that you could still have a Oil 

1284
01:21:02,900 --> 01:21:05,200
discussion or debate about it, 
right? 

1285
01:21:05,200 --> 01:21:09,800
I mean, I don't know why. 
Yeah, he's a friend of mine and 

1286
01:21:09,800 --> 01:21:13,600
we he's a comes from the 
philosophy side of things. 

1287
01:21:13,600 --> 01:21:15,900
So he has them kids that 
particular angle and I have a 

1288
01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:18,700
very different angle so it's 
where they meet and Clash. 

1289
01:21:18,700 --> 01:21:21,600
Sometimes. 
She's kind of cool so we can 

1290
01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:24,800
have long discussions about this
and I think we both learn from 

1291
01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:26,800
each other. 
So yeah, of course, discussions 

1292
01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:30,000
and debate and disagreement is 
all part of. 

1293
01:21:30,500 --> 01:21:33,900
No one will certainly Something 
like DMT know, we're not all 

1294
01:21:33,900 --> 01:21:40,700
going to agree on on different 
aspects of it, but when somebody

1295
01:21:40,700 --> 01:21:45,600
points out that well, elves have
been an elf-like beings have 

1296
01:21:45,600 --> 01:21:49,900
been reported in the the DMT 
report literature, going back to

1297
01:21:50,100 --> 01:21:55,600
the 1950s and through to the 
1960s and Beyond away before, 

1298
01:21:55,700 --> 01:21:59,000
you know, when Terrance McKenna 
was still, a little kid long 

1299
01:21:59,000 --> 01:22:00,700
before he was talking about 
machine. 

1300
01:22:00,700 --> 01:22:01,500
Al's, you know? 
Sure. 

1301
01:22:01,500 --> 01:22:05,700
He gave From that cute name that
everyone I mean but there's 

1302
01:22:05,700 --> 01:22:09,800
mythology to support there's the
FED a fairy people little 

1303
01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:11,700
people. 
I mean this is a common 

1304
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:15,700
archetypes and to imagine that 
those people weren't partaking 

1305
01:22:15,700 --> 01:22:18,400
is crazy because we know those 
people were partaking in 

1306
01:22:18,400 --> 01:22:21,400
psychedelic rituals. 
So right. 

1307
01:22:21,500 --> 01:22:23,000
Right. 
So so you know, these 

1308
01:22:23,000 --> 01:22:26,400
Lilliputian type little beings, 
they give them different names. 

1309
01:22:26,400 --> 01:22:29,800
They might take different forms 
but they seem to be unified in 

1310
01:22:29,800 --> 01:22:32,200
that character. 
You know, these little eyes Lee 

1311
01:22:32,200 --> 01:22:35,600
giggling, mischievous tricks 
tree, kind of beings. 

1312
01:22:36,300 --> 01:22:39,000
We're talking about whether you 
call them machine, of course, 

1313
01:22:39,000 --> 01:22:42,700
nobody called The Machine elves 
before McKenna because he gave 

1314
01:22:42,700 --> 01:22:46,400
them that name, but that's just 
his cute little name, you called

1315
01:22:46,400 --> 01:22:49,000
them Tykes, he called them, you 
know, and lots of different 

1316
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:51,800
little names for them. 
And I see that though to, I 

1317
01:22:51,800 --> 01:22:56,200
could see the machine aspect 
like coloring the experience or 

1318
01:22:56,500 --> 01:22:59,200
putting it in your subconscious.
So when you're in that space 

1319
01:22:59,200 --> 01:23:02,200
you're thinking like, Oh, I 
thought these were just Colors 

1320
01:23:02,200 --> 01:23:04,100
and patterns. 
But now I'm starting to see this

1321
01:23:04,100 --> 01:23:06,300
Michelle machine thing. 
Like I could see something like 

1322
01:23:06,300 --> 01:23:08,900
that. 
But yeah. 

1323
01:23:08,900 --> 01:23:11,700
Again, I just the whole way, it 
just went down. 

1324
01:23:11,700 --> 01:23:14,700
Like I said, I think there's a 
better way to especially coming 

1325
01:23:14,700 --> 01:23:17,400
from the Psychedelic community 
and people have used 

1326
01:23:17,400 --> 01:23:20,200
psychedelics, you would imagine 
that they'd have a better way to

1327
01:23:20,800 --> 01:23:23,000
handle these things. 
I don't know that's why I mean 

1328
01:23:23,100 --> 01:23:26,000
it happens like just because you
say it Alex doesn't make you a 

1329
01:23:26,008 --> 01:23:28,900
better person because it does 
and there's so many assholes in 

1330
01:23:28,900 --> 01:23:30,600
the Psychedelic Community. 
You know. 

1331
01:23:30,700 --> 01:23:35,700
So Yeah, I mean I think he's 
trying to get feeling is trying 

1332
01:23:35,700 --> 01:23:40,800
to establish himself as being 
the voice of the young hip 

1333
01:23:40,900 --> 01:23:46,500
psychedelic crowned and I into I
put a little spanner in the 

1334
01:23:46,500 --> 01:23:50,400
works. 
There and questioned question, 

1335
01:23:50,400 --> 01:23:53,000
hang on this subject and he 
didn't like it. 

1336
01:23:53,400 --> 01:23:57,400
I think he took offense also to 
the way that I Responded to one 

1337
01:23:57,400 --> 01:23:59,200
of his arguments. 
He didn't like the way I used a 

1338
01:23:59,208 --> 01:24:01,300
mixture of lowercase and 
uppercase. 

1339
01:24:02,400 --> 01:24:06,900
Yeah, I mean, but but, but 
here's the thing, I had to take 

1340
01:24:06,900 --> 01:24:10,000
my take on, it was just from 
looking at what was going on his

1341
01:24:10,000 --> 01:24:12,100
video. 
He's trying to establish himself

1342
01:24:12,100 --> 01:24:15,300
on YouTube. 
He's obviously doing the thing 

1343
01:24:15,300 --> 01:24:20,500
where you come for the top dog 
or somebody and you make noise 

1344
01:24:20,500 --> 01:24:23,000
and you're trying to get more 
YouTube followers and you knows 

1345
01:24:23,000 --> 01:24:24,400
laughs. 
I felt like it was a little bit 

1346
01:24:24,400 --> 01:24:27,000
more of that, like, take a shot 
at At, you know, one of the old 

1347
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:28,700
heads. 
Yeah. 

1348
01:24:28,700 --> 01:24:31,400
Kind of a thing, I don't know. 
Yeah, I don't think I'm one of 

1349
01:24:31,400 --> 01:24:33,400
the old heads, you know, I 
don't, I don't consider you 

1350
01:24:33,400 --> 01:24:36,100
that, but I'm just saying, like,
I don't know that that dude seem

1351
01:24:36,100 --> 01:24:40,200
kind of young, so I don't know. 
He sent me younger than me, he's

1352
01:24:40,200 --> 01:24:43,400
a piano. 
Yeah, for sure. 

1353
01:24:43,600 --> 01:24:46,200
So yeah again, I don't know. 
I don't have any ill will. 

1354
01:24:46,200 --> 01:24:49,400
I just thought that that whole 
thing was just bizarre to me 

1355
01:24:49,400 --> 01:24:51,500
like the whole interaction. 
It was just like a Miss 

1356
01:24:51,700 --> 01:24:54,800
understanding and he should have
stopped when he people were 

1357
01:24:54,800 --> 01:24:58,900
telling him that and Whatever, 
but let's, so let's get to the 

1358
01:24:58,900 --> 01:25:03,200
meat of this thing are. 
Do you think these things are 

1359
01:25:03,200 --> 01:25:05,300
internal or do you think they're
external? 

1360
01:25:05,300 --> 01:25:09,400
Now, before you answer that I 
have never had DMT entity 

1361
01:25:09,400 --> 01:25:12,000
experiences. 
I have had entity experiences. 

1362
01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:16,000
One was hippie flipping. 
I took a large dose of 

1363
01:25:16,008 --> 01:25:20,700
psilocybin and MDMA had an 
entity experience on that 

1364
01:25:21,100 --> 01:25:25,300
another time, just MDMA, I had 
these sentient. 

1365
01:25:25,900 --> 01:25:29,500
Fish flowing around like 
conveying messages and shit very

1366
01:25:29,500 --> 01:25:31,100
bizarre. 
I didn't actually know, MDMA 

1367
01:25:31,100 --> 01:25:33,300
could do that. 
I took 300 milligrams which is 

1368
01:25:33,300 --> 01:25:38,700
kind of a large dose, I think go
but yeah so that I had to leave 

1369
01:25:38,700 --> 01:25:44,500
a fish fish, a fish, you know 
concert so I've had a few other 

1370
01:25:44,500 --> 01:25:48,000
ones I'm not going to mention 
them but anyways my point being 

1371
01:25:48,000 --> 01:25:51,000
that obviously this is not just 
subject to DMT. 

1372
01:25:52,700 --> 01:25:54,200
What do you think's happening 
there? 

1373
01:25:54,200 --> 01:25:59,900
Do you think that the DMT Entity
thing is a very specific version

1374
01:25:59,900 --> 01:26:01,700
of The Entity. 
Or do you think they're all just

1375
01:26:01,700 --> 01:26:04,000
kind of the same thing. 
It's just easier to tap into 

1376
01:26:04,000 --> 01:26:08,400
that via the deity of DMT. 
Yeah, I think I mean, certainly 

1377
01:26:08,400 --> 01:26:13,400
with Salvadoran as well, entity 
experiences are also very common

1378
01:26:14,300 --> 01:26:18,500
and with high-dose psilocybin, I
think what DMT does is it is it 

1379
01:26:18,500 --> 01:26:24,000
it's very efficient at breaking 
through into that that state 

1380
01:26:24,000 --> 01:26:25,800
where empty experiences are 
common. 

1381
01:26:25,900 --> 01:26:29,200
But other drugs can get that. 
But you know, with the mushrooms

1382
01:26:29,200 --> 01:26:32,100
you need quite high doses to 
kind of reach that same kind of 

1383
01:26:32,100 --> 01:26:36,700
level. 
So I don't think it's, you know,

1384
01:26:36,708 --> 01:26:40,200
100% DMT specific. 
I just think DMT is very good at

1385
01:26:40,200 --> 01:26:42,000
getting you into that that 
space. 

1386
01:26:42,400 --> 01:26:47,400
Now, in terms of the do I think 
they're all in your head or do I

1387
01:26:47,407 --> 01:26:51,400
think they exist somehow out of 
your head at the same time? 

1388
01:26:51,600 --> 01:26:57,500
I think the answer is a mixture 
of the two possibly Because even

1389
01:26:57,500 --> 01:27:01,800
if these, even if we are dealing
with an intelligence, that is 

1390
01:27:01,800 --> 01:27:05,000
from elsewhere that we're smart 
communicating with or gate, 

1391
01:27:05,300 --> 01:27:09,200
gaining access to your brain, 
still has to kind of build a 

1392
01:27:09,200 --> 01:27:13,200
model of that. 
Being, there's no reason to 

1393
01:27:13,200 --> 01:27:18,600
think that just because an 
entity appears as an elf or 

1394
01:27:18,600 --> 01:27:24,000
appears as a mantis or 
something, an insectoid creature

1395
01:27:24,500 --> 01:27:29,800
that that is there Are kind of 
True Form or their true nature. 

1396
01:27:30,200 --> 01:27:34,700
This is just the brain. 
Using these deeply embedded 

1397
01:27:35,200 --> 01:27:38,700
archetypal structures. 
You know, we all carry around 

1398
01:27:39,900 --> 01:27:43,000
this inherited, neural 
architecture. 

1399
01:27:43,200 --> 01:27:49,800
That has this propensity this 
inherent propensity to build 

1400
01:27:49,800 --> 01:27:55,800
certain kinds of structures. 
Be it, reptiles snakes. 

1401
01:27:56,100 --> 01:28:00,500
Spiders. 
Insects, and also, for some 

1402
01:28:00,500 --> 01:28:05,300
reason, these kind of small 
Lively, mischievous strict 

1403
01:28:05,300 --> 01:28:09,400
Street beings as the brain. 
We all inherit that kind of 

1404
01:28:09,400 --> 01:28:14,400
archetypal toolbox from which we
can construct images. 

1405
01:28:15,100 --> 01:28:19,000
And so, I think, but that 
doesn't mean that they're purely

1406
01:28:19,600 --> 01:28:26,000
that purely that we all carry 
have the idea that we all all 

1407
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:29,400
have this Collective unconscious
within which these beings are 

1408
01:28:29,400 --> 01:28:31,200
kind of swimming around an 
existing. 

1409
01:28:31,200 --> 01:28:33,800
That's not that's not really 
what? 

1410
01:28:34,400 --> 01:28:36,600
Going back to Young? 
What he was really saying that. 

1411
01:28:36,800 --> 01:28:41,300
It's just that we all we all 
inherit the same kind of brain. 

1412
01:28:41,700 --> 01:28:45,500
We all have markings of our 
evolutionary past. 

1413
01:28:45,900 --> 01:28:51,400
We all carry those, what often 
term neuro, Gnostic structures 

1414
01:28:51,400 --> 01:28:55,300
these basic patterns of 
inherited connectivity. 

1415
01:28:55,300 --> 01:29:01,000
That allow Was to build the kind
of the basic building blocks 

1416
01:29:01,000 --> 01:29:03,500
from which we construct. 
Our model of the world. 

1417
01:29:03,500 --> 01:29:08,000
And and these are kind of, these
are ingrained their inherited, 

1418
01:29:08,000 --> 01:29:10,100
we all have them. 
And I think what's happening 

1419
01:29:10,100 --> 01:29:15,500
with DMT, is that your brain is 
drawing upon these these tools. 

1420
01:29:15,500 --> 01:29:20,400
It's faced with this, the highly
unusual patterns of information 

1421
01:29:20,400 --> 01:29:24,800
from wherever, right? 
It could be from some other 

1422
01:29:24,800 --> 01:29:30,100
reality, it could. 
It'd be from somehow emerging 

1423
01:29:30,100 --> 01:29:35,400
within your cortex for other 
reasons, but your brain is faced

1424
01:29:35,400 --> 01:29:41,000
with dealing with these 
extremely extraordinary patterns

1425
01:29:41,000 --> 01:29:45,300
of information. 
And it is trying to find the 

1426
01:29:45,300 --> 01:29:48,700
best model that fits that that 
paddle in pattern of 

1427
01:29:48,700 --> 01:29:52,900
information. 
And sometimes that elf like 

1428
01:29:52,900 --> 01:29:55,700
being, you know, is the best way
to do that. 

1429
01:29:55,900 --> 01:29:59,600
If the information has those 
kind of qualities, then you 

1430
01:29:59,600 --> 01:30:05,300
might represent these beings as 
being elf-like, but they might 

1431
01:30:05,300 --> 01:30:09,800
differ in their form because 
archetypes are the basic 

1432
01:30:09,900 --> 01:30:12,800
propensity, the basic 
potentiality, the build certain 

1433
01:30:12,800 --> 01:30:16,700
types of images and symbols, but
they also colored by your 

1434
01:30:16,700 --> 01:30:18,900
experience in your culture and 
what you learn. 

1435
01:30:19,300 --> 01:30:24,300
So, if I asked you to draw an 
elf, you would draw a different 

1436
01:30:24,300 --> 01:30:27,800
picture than Be in Ireland or 
something. 

1437
01:30:27,800 --> 01:30:29,500
You know, they might draw a 
little green guy with a pointy 

1438
01:30:29,500 --> 01:30:31,700
hat. 
You might draw someone that look

1439
01:30:31,700 --> 01:30:33,800
more like Gollum or something. 
I don't know, right? 

1440
01:30:34,300 --> 01:30:38,400
We all the archetypes as they 
kind of manifest as they're 

1441
01:30:38,400 --> 01:30:42,700
drawn upon, they become colored 
and filled in by experience, by 

1442
01:30:42,700 --> 01:30:46,500
by culture on a very, very kind 
of individual basis. 

1443
01:30:46,700 --> 01:30:53,600
So jet, so to just because the 
elves have very different forms 

1444
01:30:53,600 --> 01:30:55,800
that doesn't necessarily mean 
that they are. 

1445
01:30:55,900 --> 01:30:58,100
Kind of different or that 
they're purely individual. 

1446
01:30:58,100 --> 01:31:01,500
It just simply means that your 
brain is kind of, is is building

1447
01:31:01,500 --> 01:31:05,300
its own version. 
If you like of the elf based 

1448
01:31:05,300 --> 01:31:09,200
upon that lowest level 
archetypal structure but also 

1449
01:31:09,500 --> 01:31:15,300
how it's been collared and 
informed and filled in by the 

1450
01:31:15,300 --> 01:31:20,500
individual level. 
So so this is really the problem

1451
01:31:20,500 --> 01:31:24,900
I think is that you can't get 
away from even if we are dealing

1452
01:31:24,900 --> 01:31:28,400
with And intelligence from 
elsewhere. 

1453
01:31:28,600 --> 01:31:34,500
We can't get away from the fact 
that it's always going to have a

1454
01:31:34,500 --> 01:31:38,100
personal aspect. 
It's always going to be your 

1455
01:31:38,100 --> 01:31:40,700
brain is all your brain is 
always going to have to draw 

1456
01:31:40,700 --> 01:31:43,900
upon what it can, what it knows 
the kind of patterns and models 

1457
01:31:43,900 --> 01:31:47,400
that it has to kind of, to 
create an image to create a 

1458
01:31:47,407 --> 01:31:52,700
model of these beings. 
And that's, that's why I always 

1459
01:31:52,700 --> 01:31:55,700
say. 
It's, it's a combination these 

1460
01:31:56,300 --> 01:31:59,300
These entities, even if they are
purely external, even if they 

1461
01:31:59,300 --> 01:32:02,600
exist, before you go into the 
DMT, stay. 

1462
01:32:02,600 --> 01:32:05,600
And for some reason, you are 
communicating with some kind of 

1463
01:32:05,608 --> 01:32:09,300
advanced intelligence. 
It's all what you actually see, 

1464
01:32:09,300 --> 01:32:13,400
what you actually experience the
form. 

1465
01:32:13,400 --> 01:32:18,600
The entities take always going 
to have a personal subjective 

1466
01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:21,000
component that you can't get 
away from. 

1467
01:32:22,200 --> 01:32:25,700
So so that's why it's so 
difficult to make. 

1468
01:32:25,800 --> 01:32:31,900
Make the draw a line between and
clearly kind of differentiate 

1469
01:32:31,900 --> 01:32:37,200
between a pure hallucination, a 
pure fabrication of the cortex 

1470
01:32:37,700 --> 01:32:41,900
and something else. 
Something more Unthinkable for 

1471
01:32:42,000 --> 01:32:48,500
something fast Ranger. 
Yeah, the But the first part of 

1472
01:32:48,508 --> 01:32:53,100
the would be, so like the tough 
part of answering that is, what 

1473
01:32:53,100 --> 01:32:57,200
is consciousness? 
Because you're answering it, as 

1474
01:32:57,200 --> 01:33:02,100
if though, Consciousness is a 
byproduct of our biology in 

1475
01:33:02,400 --> 01:33:05,300
resulting of the function of our
brain, right? 

1476
01:33:06,300 --> 01:33:08,800
When I'm not saying that you 
believe this, by the way. 

1477
01:33:08,800 --> 01:33:13,700
I'm just saying, how you just 
described in reality. 

1478
01:33:14,400 --> 01:33:17,000
We know that we don't know what 
consciousness. 

1479
01:33:17,200 --> 01:33:19,700
This is It's called The Hard 
problem of Consciousness for a 

1480
01:33:19,700 --> 01:33:22,800
reason. 
But let's just say 

1481
01:33:22,800 --> 01:33:26,900
hypothetically the brain is like
some sort of receiver and 

1482
01:33:26,900 --> 01:33:32,500
Consciousness is non-local like 
maybe we're just a instrument 

1483
01:33:33,300 --> 01:33:35,300
which kind of plays into kind of
what we're talking about. 

1484
01:33:35,300 --> 01:33:40,700
Because when you get into these 
Realms let's say again it's 

1485
01:33:40,700 --> 01:33:44,800
non-local our Consciousness and 
you were interacting with these 

1486
01:33:44,800 --> 01:33:48,500
things. 
Well then what does that say 

1487
01:33:48,500 --> 01:33:50,800
about the nature of reality at 
that point, right? 

1488
01:33:50,800 --> 01:33:55,600
Because This is the problem is 
is the hard problem. 

1489
01:33:57,500 --> 01:34:01,700
Yeah, I think the so what the 
position I always come from is 

1490
01:34:01,700 --> 01:34:06,700
that we don't understand what 
Consciousness is. 

1491
01:34:06,700 --> 01:34:09,300
We don't understand. 
Whether it we don't know whether

1492
01:34:09,300 --> 01:34:16,800
it is, some it, whether it 
emerges from neural activity, 

1493
01:34:16,800 --> 01:34:20,900
whether it's more fundamental 
weather is you suggest the brain

1494
01:34:20,900 --> 01:34:24,100
is more like a receiver of 
Consciousness, we don't know the

1495
01:34:24,100 --> 01:34:26,800
answer to that question, what we
know? 

1496
01:34:27,100 --> 01:34:30,100
Which is what I always focus on.
Is that Consciousness that 

1497
01:34:30,100 --> 01:34:35,800
subjective Consciousness has, it
has content and it has structure

1498
01:34:36,500 --> 01:34:38,900
and it's full of information. 
That's what I focus on. 

1499
01:34:38,900 --> 01:34:43,000
What is the information content 
of the experience and how is 

1500
01:34:43,000 --> 01:34:47,700
that patterned and constructed 
by the cortex. 

1501
01:34:47,700 --> 01:34:53,700
So I'm not saying that the the 
subjective nature of the world 

1502
01:34:53,700 --> 01:34:56,600
is is constructed by the brain, 
but it's shaped. 

1503
01:34:57,200 --> 01:35:00,500
The content and structure. 
The way that the the experience 

1504
01:35:00,500 --> 01:35:04,900
is patterned and informed is 
from neural activity. 

1505
01:35:05,000 --> 01:35:09,400
But it could well be that that's
all the brain is doing is it's 

1506
01:35:09,400 --> 01:35:12,200
shaping receiving certain 
patterns. 

1507
01:35:12,300 --> 01:35:18,100
So just like a TV in one of 
those old TVs had an aerial you,

1508
01:35:18,100 --> 01:35:25,200
it's receiving these patterns of
radio waves and then it has to 

1509
01:35:25,600 --> 01:35:28,900
use those the Of construct the 
image. 

1510
01:35:29,400 --> 01:35:36,700
You don't say that the TV is 
that the radio waves are 

1511
01:35:36,800 --> 01:35:39,000
emerging from the TV. 
It's quite the opposite. 

1512
01:35:39,000 --> 01:35:41,800
It's in the other direction and 
it could be something like that.

1513
01:35:41,800 --> 01:35:45,400
But we just, we don't know. 
Which is why I tend to avoid 

1514
01:35:46,500 --> 01:35:50,300
talking too much about what we 
don't know are making judgments.

1515
01:35:50,300 --> 01:35:54,700
So when people criticize being 
say that I am an emergentist or 

1516
01:35:54,700 --> 01:35:58,300
a reductionist or that, I am 
assuming Zooming that the brain 

1517
01:35:58,300 --> 01:36:02,000
can the brain is responsible for
the generation of Consciousness.

1518
01:36:02,000 --> 01:36:05,200
I'm really not. 
All I'm doing is taking what we 

1519
01:36:05,200 --> 01:36:08,800
know about subjective conscious 
experience, which is that it is 

1520
01:36:09,000 --> 01:36:11,100
full of content its 
information-rich. 

1521
01:36:11,100 --> 01:36:15,600
It has structure and that this 
structure is related to neural 

1522
01:36:15,600 --> 01:36:18,800
activity. 
We know that when that the we 

1523
01:36:18,800 --> 01:36:21,500
can explain at least the 
information or structure, the 

1524
01:36:21,500 --> 01:36:26,500
content of your subjective 
experience from neural activity 

1525
01:36:26,500 --> 01:36:29,400
that Doesn't mean that neural 
activity is generating 

1526
01:36:29,400 --> 01:36:31,900
Consciousness itself, that makes
sense. 

1527
01:36:34,200 --> 01:36:37,000
Yeah, let me ask you a question 
here. 

1528
01:36:37,000 --> 01:36:39,600
So I few years ago, I read a 
paper that was brought to my 

1529
01:36:39,600 --> 01:36:44,600
attention was a PubMed paper on 
the pineal gland and now we know

1530
01:36:44,600 --> 01:36:47,400
obviously, DMT is produced in 
the brain and cerebral spinal 

1531
01:36:47,400 --> 01:36:51,100
fluid, not just in a specific 
gland or part of the brain. 

1532
01:36:51,900 --> 01:36:56,200
But in this, it talks about 
these little crystals that form 

1533
01:36:56,200 --> 01:37:00,400
within the pineal, grunt gland 
hexagonal cylindrical. 

1534
01:37:00,400 --> 01:37:06,000
There's all sorts of different 
shapes And they produce upon 

1535
01:37:06,000 --> 01:37:09,600
crushing or whatever, they 
produce an ultraviolet. 

1536
01:37:09,800 --> 01:37:15,300
Like a fact I guess my question 
would be the paper talks about 

1537
01:37:15,300 --> 01:37:18,700
how it could could possibly work
in the same way. 

1538
01:37:18,700 --> 01:37:21,300
That like the small bones in 
your ear like out of Konya. 

1539
01:37:21,800 --> 01:37:23,400
I think that's how you pronounce
it. 

1540
01:37:23,900 --> 01:37:27,300
Pick up vibrations. 
Could that be some sort of 

1541
01:37:27,300 --> 01:37:30,300
mechanism for the brain? 
Could there be something in the 

1542
01:37:30,300 --> 01:37:34,100
brain that's picking up 
vibrations and Almost like a, 

1543
01:37:34,300 --> 01:37:37,700
you know, Piezo electric effect 
or something along those lines. 

1544
01:37:39,500 --> 01:37:43,900
I think you'd have a hard time 
making that argument because I 

1545
01:37:43,907 --> 01:37:48,900
mean the pineal gland obviously.
It's it's become saturated with 

1546
01:37:48,900 --> 01:37:54,600
mysticism that you can often 
lose sight of of what pineal 

1547
01:37:54,600 --> 01:37:56,900
gland. 
What we know the pineal gland is

1548
01:37:56,900 --> 01:38:00,500
doing mean right. 
It's a gland obviously it's 

1549
01:38:00,500 --> 01:38:04,800
producing this hormone melatonin
is very Very small side size of 

1550
01:38:04,800 --> 01:38:09,600
the end of your your little 
finger and it's not the way that

1551
01:38:09,600 --> 01:38:16,100
it's connected into your, your 
brain suggests that it's not the

1552
01:38:16,100 --> 01:38:19,800
seat of Consciousness. 
I would say, it's probably not 

1553
01:38:19,800 --> 01:38:22,100
big enough to producing large 
amounts of DMT. 

1554
01:38:22,700 --> 01:38:29,100
It is of course, sensitive to 
light indirectly in that. 

1555
01:38:29,100 --> 01:38:31,900
What about in like the books? 
I know that's what Rick was 

1556
01:38:31,900 --> 01:38:35,100
studying before. 
Actually started studying DMT. 

1557
01:38:35,100 --> 01:38:37,400
We've talked at amount of few 
times to talk about that. 

1558
01:38:37,900 --> 01:38:40,700
What if though, this my point 
was the pineal gland not that 

1559
01:38:40,700 --> 01:38:42,500
it's causing Consciousness in 
general. 

1560
01:38:42,500 --> 01:38:46,200
But what if it has placed some 
function in like let's say, 

1561
01:38:46,200 --> 01:38:48,200
dreaming, we always wonder like 
what's dreaming. 

1562
01:38:48,200 --> 01:38:52,500
What if it's picking up some 
sort of and in your in a sleep 

1563
01:38:52,500 --> 01:38:56,300
state or a meditative state that
that it's picking up something 

1564
01:38:56,300 --> 01:38:58,000
and what? 
That's what's causing the dreams

1565
01:38:58,000 --> 01:39:00,600
or something like that. 
Yeah, I know what you mean. 

1566
01:39:00,600 --> 01:39:05,900
I think again. 
It's You'd have to think about 

1567
01:39:05,900 --> 01:39:09,300
what's the mechanism here. 
So, even if the pineal gland 

1568
01:39:09,300 --> 01:39:12,500
these crystals within the pineal
gland were able to pick up 

1569
01:39:13,300 --> 01:39:18,400
information from some 
electromagnetic or other source.

1570
01:39:18,600 --> 01:39:21,500
How would that then feed into? 
How would that then, that 

1571
01:39:21,500 --> 01:39:26,600
information Connect into the 
rest of the cortex, right? 

1572
01:39:27,000 --> 01:39:30,700
You know, I don't know. 
The answer is the question mean 

1573
01:39:30,700 --> 01:39:34,600
it's something you could test? 
I mean, if someone really Leaves

1574
01:39:34,600 --> 01:39:37,500
that then I'm not testing no 
reason to let me test that I'm 

1575
01:39:37,508 --> 01:39:40,200
just walking to a lab. 
Hey I got these tiny little 

1576
01:39:40,200 --> 01:39:44,900
crystals, right? 
So I think a lot of it comes 

1577
01:39:44,900 --> 01:39:46,100
down. 
That's part of the problem. 

1578
01:39:46,100 --> 01:39:51,100
I guess is that people are very 
willing to suggest and people 

1579
01:39:51,100 --> 01:39:53,000
will often assert these things 
and they will talk about 

1580
01:39:53,000 --> 01:39:59,100
decalcifying your pineal and 
make a lot of rather bold claims

1581
01:39:59,100 --> 01:40:01,400
about what the pin. 
We owe a lot of that stuff's we 

1582
01:40:01,400 --> 01:40:03,200
will. 
That's yeah, yeah, a lot of 

1583
01:40:03,208 --> 01:40:06,400
that's nonsense. 
It's so I think there's nothing 

1584
01:40:06,400 --> 01:40:09,600
wrong with having kind of wild 
ideas, but you have to, at some 

1585
01:40:09,600 --> 01:40:14,200
point, bring them down to earth.
So to speak and say, okay, let's

1586
01:40:14,200 --> 01:40:16,800
think about how it first of all.
What's the hypothesis here? 

1587
01:40:17,000 --> 01:40:20,600
How we going to test it? 
And then let's test it, let's 

1588
01:40:20,600 --> 01:40:23,300
see what effect we expect to 
have. 

1589
01:40:23,300 --> 01:40:27,800
And, and a lot of people don't 
don't do that, or don't have the

1590
01:40:27,800 --> 01:40:30,700
ability to formulate the kind of
hypothesis or don't have that 

1591
01:40:30,700 --> 01:40:33,800
basic neuro scientific 
underpinning, that basic 

1592
01:40:33,800 --> 01:40:35,600
neuroscience. 
I think difficult the standing 

1593
01:40:35,600 --> 01:40:38,300
to know what kind of experiments
you should do with that. 

1594
01:40:38,700 --> 01:40:40,900
You know, you get the same thing
with people. 

1595
01:40:41,100 --> 01:40:45,900
Someone once wrote to me and 
said is it that DMT is affecting

1596
01:40:45,900 --> 01:40:50,200
the retina so that you can see 
other frequencies, right? 

1597
01:40:50,200 --> 01:40:53,800
That's a often claimed, right? 
That the DMT is allowing you to 

1598
01:40:53,800 --> 01:40:58,800
see outside of the narrow 
frequency range that our eyes 

1599
01:40:58,800 --> 01:41:01,200
can see. 
And my response to that is, 

1600
01:41:01,200 --> 01:41:04,000
well, if that's where these 
entities are, then we can pick 

1601
01:41:04,100 --> 01:41:06,500
Them up with UV detectors, 
right? 

1602
01:41:06,500 --> 01:41:09,200
The you know, other detectors, 
you know, we have equipped yeah.

1603
01:41:09,200 --> 01:41:10,900
Attacked outside the visual 
rain. 

1604
01:41:10,900 --> 01:41:15,000
So if these entities or beings 
or worlds were existing outside 

1605
01:41:15,000 --> 01:41:19,000
literally, outside of the visual
frequency range, we should be 

1606
01:41:19,000 --> 01:41:22,200
able to detect them using other 
equipment but we don't you don't

1607
01:41:22,200 --> 01:41:23,700
see. 
Yeah, I mean that's a lot of 

1608
01:41:23,700 --> 01:41:26,600
that would fall under like Psy 
research or something that like 

1609
01:41:26,600 --> 01:41:29,500
Dean radin or somebody like that
studies because there's really 

1610
01:41:29,500 --> 01:41:32,100
nobody studying that kind of 
stuff out there. 

1611
01:41:33,200 --> 01:41:35,600
I know I mentioned This weird 
thing that I get when I'm in 

1612
01:41:35,600 --> 01:41:38,300
meditation and I've talked to 
other people about it to these 

1613
01:41:38,300 --> 01:41:41,600
lights, these flow. 
I don't know, it's hard to 

1614
01:41:41,600 --> 01:41:44,700
explain and I asked Strassman 
about it. 

1615
01:41:44,700 --> 01:41:49,000
He said maybe phosphenes or 
something like that but I don't 

1616
01:41:49,000 --> 01:41:50,700
know, I don't know, I don't 
know. 

1617
01:41:50,700 --> 01:41:52,800
You know, I've talked to a lot 
of people that experience that's

1618
01:41:52,800 --> 01:41:54,800
maybe that is the case. 
I don't know enough about it. 

1619
01:41:54,800 --> 01:41:57,800
Yeah, I mean, you know, if you 
are if you're seeing light, your

1620
01:41:57,800 --> 01:42:00,900
brain, doesn't need physical 
actual light. 

1621
01:42:00,900 --> 01:42:03,500
Entering the eyes for you to 
see, like, obviously, when you 

1622
01:42:03,508 --> 01:42:07,400
spoke to you, Mt. 
It's a very very brightly lit 

1623
01:42:07,400 --> 01:42:10,400
space. 
But of course, there's no light 

1624
01:42:10,400 --> 01:42:12,600
entering the eyes. 
As but long, as you're 

1625
01:42:12,600 --> 01:42:15,100
activating, if you're activating
certain parts of the visual 

1626
01:42:15,100 --> 01:42:19,900
cortex, then you will be seeing 
light, you'll be seeing colors, 

1627
01:42:19,900 --> 01:42:24,700
and it will pee appear to be a 
very light field experience. 

1628
01:42:24,700 --> 01:42:27,100
You don't need in the brain is 
in a dark box. 

1629
01:42:28,000 --> 01:42:31,500
Never has direct access to light
only as access to those patterns

1630
01:42:31,500 --> 01:42:35,200
of electrical. 
Signals that are entering the 

1631
01:42:35,200 --> 01:42:40,100
brain from the retina, but so 
you don't need light to 

1632
01:42:40,100 --> 01:42:42,900
experience life. 
You just need to activate those 

1633
01:42:42,900 --> 01:42:45,200
certain parts of the visual 
cortex that will give you the 

1634
01:42:45,200 --> 01:42:51,700
experience of light. 
Another, woo question, what 

1635
01:42:51,700 --> 01:42:56,800
about this? 
Sort of like these light 

1636
01:42:56,800 --> 01:43:00,300
Retreats are not like complete 
darkness, Retreats where people 

1637
01:43:00,300 --> 01:43:03,100
are like locking themselves up 
for six days straight or 

1638
01:43:03,100 --> 01:43:05,900
whatever. 
There was some guy Why Montauk 

1639
01:43:05,900 --> 01:43:07,800
Chia? 
I forget the guys name you was 

1640
01:43:07,800 --> 01:43:11,400
on? 
Yeah, that's like I'm claiming 

1641
01:43:11,400 --> 01:43:13,600
that if you're in darkness long 
enough your body starts to 

1642
01:43:13,600 --> 01:43:17,100
naturally produce DMT in these 
crazy States. 

1643
01:43:17,100 --> 01:43:20,100
Is the reason why I asked that 
is, there's many accounts in the

1644
01:43:20,100 --> 01:43:24,800
ancient world and esoteric tax 
of people retreating to a cave. 

1645
01:43:24,800 --> 01:43:27,300
And then, you know, one 
specifically I can think of is 

1646
01:43:27,300 --> 01:43:30,200
Leonardo Da Vinci retreating to 
a cave and coming out some sort 

1647
01:43:30,200 --> 01:43:34,000
of ascended Master, not 
necessarily that they're being 

1648
01:43:34,100 --> 01:43:38,900
Given some special knowledge or 
whatever, but maybe inducing 

1649
01:43:38,900 --> 01:43:42,200
some sort of endogenous 
psychedelic experience and then 

1650
01:43:42,200 --> 01:43:44,800
coming away with that, you know,
I could see that giving you an 

1651
01:43:44,800 --> 01:43:48,700
upper hand or an advantage over 
other people back then or 

1652
01:43:48,700 --> 01:43:53,400
something along those lines. 
Yeah, I don't, I mean I've 

1653
01:43:53,400 --> 01:43:56,600
spoken before about the 
possibility that I mean so the 

1654
01:43:56,600 --> 01:44:01,700
pineal gland we could start 
there the pineal gland obviously

1655
01:44:01,700 --> 01:44:05,700
is activated by darkness in the 
That your pineal gland starts 

1656
01:44:05,700 --> 01:44:09,100
producing melatonin to go down, 
it becomes night, that's its 

1657
01:44:09,100 --> 01:44:14,900
kind of signal. 
So, if big, if the pineal was 

1658
01:44:14,900 --> 01:44:19,600
producing DMT, one might argue 
that extended periods in 

1659
01:44:19,600 --> 01:44:25,300
complete, darkness would Elevate
DMT levels in the brain, but 

1660
01:44:25,300 --> 01:44:28,100
you'd, I don't think you have to
necessarily invoke the pinney or

1661
01:44:28,100 --> 01:44:31,700
there might be other mechanisms.
You know, if your brain is in a 

1662
01:44:32,500 --> 01:44:36,800
sensory deprived, A brain 
doesn't like to be inactive. 

1663
01:44:36,800 --> 01:44:42,100
The brain is, this is why people
use sensory deprivation tanks 

1664
01:44:42,100 --> 01:44:45,600
and will often have quite 
Visionary experiences within 

1665
01:44:45,600 --> 01:44:47,400
them. 
When your brain is cut off from 

1666
01:44:47,700 --> 01:44:54,800
sensory information, then it can
still start to construct 

1667
01:44:54,800 --> 01:45:00,100
realities that are not mapped to
the normal waking world or not 

1668
01:45:00,100 --> 01:45:02,100
map, to the environment and the 
Norway. 

1669
01:45:02,800 --> 01:45:06,400
And so I'm I see I'm certainly 
open to the idea that extended 

1670
01:45:06,400 --> 01:45:09,100
periods in darkness. 
Might well, induce Visionary 

1671
01:45:09,100 --> 01:45:12,200
experiences that you couldn't 
experience easily. 

1672
01:45:12,800 --> 01:45:15,800
Certainly if you didn't have 
access to kind of exogenous 

1673
01:45:15,800 --> 01:45:20,200
molecules one. 
Can imagine, obviously, it's not

1674
01:45:20,200 --> 01:45:23,100
as efficient and takes a long 
time and to some extent quite 

1675
01:45:23,100 --> 01:45:26,200
dramatic. 
But, you know, going into a dark

1676
01:45:26,200 --> 01:45:30,700
cave for weeks on end and 
cutting yourself off from all 

1677
01:45:30,700 --> 01:45:34,900
sources of light, that would 
probably And do some kind of 

1678
01:45:34,907 --> 01:45:38,200
visually experience. 
And you know you can think about

1679
01:45:38,200 --> 01:45:42,600
cave art, ancient cave art. 
You know, I've often thought 

1680
01:45:42,600 --> 01:45:46,100
about whether the reason they 
were painted on these. 

1681
01:45:46,200 --> 01:45:51,000
These completely inaccessible 
hidden areas of the earth and 

1682
01:45:51,000 --> 01:45:53,500
not painted on the walls outside
in the open where people can 

1683
01:45:53,500 --> 01:45:55,500
look at them and see how 
beautiful they are for some 

1684
01:45:55,500 --> 01:45:57,400
reason. 
They were painting them deep 

1685
01:45:57,400 --> 01:45:59,200
deep down in the earth, and 
there might be no more 

1686
01:45:59,200 --> 01:46:02,000
explanations for that, you know,
and anthropological explanations

1687
01:46:02,000 --> 01:46:06,000
that, I don't know about that. 
It's also So possible that they 

1688
01:46:06,000 --> 01:46:10,100
were in there because it induced
this kind of vision restate in 

1689
01:46:10,100 --> 01:46:12,900
this, in this dark in pure 
Darkness. 

1690
01:46:12,900 --> 01:46:15,900
Well, they're telling they tell 
us in some of them the to seal 

1691
01:46:15,900 --> 01:46:21,500
as year the be Shaman Terence 
McKenna's, famous be Shaman from

1692
01:46:21,500 --> 01:46:25,700
Algeria from food of the Gods 
and then you have solve a puss. 

1693
01:46:25,700 --> 01:46:32,300
Koala Spain, 6000 BC roughly 
slow stubby. 

1694
01:46:32,300 --> 01:46:35,900
Hispanica clearly. 
Depicted next to a bowl. 

1695
01:46:36,100 --> 01:46:38,600
So while you know, they're 
showing you that they're taking 

1696
01:46:38,600 --> 01:46:41,900
these mushrooms, it's not 
necessarily endogenous we know 

1697
01:46:41,900 --> 01:46:43,700
that they're obviously trying to
tell you something. 

1698
01:46:43,700 --> 01:46:46,100
Hey, we know about this, you 
know, we know. 

1699
01:46:46,300 --> 01:46:52,300
Yeah, yeah, I think that using 
these molecules in combination 

1700
01:46:52,300 --> 01:46:54,700
with Darkness can be. 
Certainly be a very powerful 

1701
01:46:54,900 --> 01:46:59,500
technique if you want to really 
enhance and eliminate the 

1702
01:46:59,600 --> 01:47:03,200
external external sources of 
visual sensory information, then

1703
01:47:03,500 --> 01:47:06,700
going into to a dark place and 
taking mushrooms would be a very

1704
01:47:06,700 --> 01:47:08,400
good idea. 
It's a good way to a very 

1705
01:47:08,400 --> 01:47:12,300
profound experience, I think but
not recommended for beginning. 

1706
01:47:14,600 --> 01:47:19,700
Yes, I saw that Aubrey Marcus 
guy did some sort of Darkness 

1707
01:47:19,700 --> 01:47:23,800
Retreat and now he's got Aaron 
Rodgers, the quarterback doing 

1708
01:47:23,800 --> 01:47:25,000
it. 
Aaron Rodgers said, he's not 

1709
01:47:25,000 --> 01:47:28,300
going to, he's not going to you 
know, figure out his future 

1710
01:47:28,300 --> 01:47:33,000
until he does this, this 
Darkness Retreat. 

1711
01:47:33,000 --> 01:47:33,900
So I don't know. 
We'll see. 

1712
01:47:34,000 --> 01:47:38,000
We'll see if this dude flips out
or what but I remember in high 

1713
01:47:38,000 --> 01:47:42,100
school actually some weird kid 
we would to school with told 

1714
01:47:42,100 --> 01:47:45,700
Maurice. 
You want to really flip out? 

1715
01:47:45,800 --> 01:47:48,400
He's like your parents go away 
for the weekend, lock yourself 

1716
01:47:48,400 --> 01:47:50,800
in the car. 
He's like you'll really Fleet 

1717
01:47:50,800 --> 01:47:53,700
freaked out and this kid, 
parently locked himself in the 

1718
01:47:53,708 --> 01:47:58,200
car for a weekend and had a 
totally psychedelic experience. 

1719
01:47:58,700 --> 01:48:02,000
So, are you guys, hey, there's 
more than one way to skin a cat.

1720
01:48:04,100 --> 01:48:06,800
Before we wrap it up here, I did
want to ask you one more thing, 

1721
01:48:06,800 --> 01:48:12,500
which is if you heard of dr. 
Stephen Barker, I know this guy,

1722
01:48:12,500 --> 01:48:17,100
John Chavez, who runs DMT Quest,
channel did that documentary? 

1723
01:48:17,400 --> 01:48:20,500
The DMT Quest documentary and in
there they're talking about all 

1724
01:48:20,500 --> 01:48:24,100
the latest, you know, study rat,
studies of my studies, from U of

1725
01:48:24,100 --> 01:48:28,500
M and how they found DMT in the 
brain and cerebral spinal fluid,

1726
01:48:28,500 --> 01:48:30,900
all that kind of stuff. 
But then there was a study 

1727
01:48:30,900 --> 01:48:35,000
apparently at LSU by Stephen 
Barker Which indicates that 

1728
01:48:35,000 --> 01:48:39,900
maybe DMT is the precursor to 
all psychedelics and that all 

1729
01:48:39,900 --> 01:48:43,000
the different psychedelic. 
Whether it's certain urges, or 

1730
01:48:43,000 --> 01:48:49,200
whatever playoff of D, or the 
DMT enzymes, or whatever that 

1731
01:48:49,200 --> 01:48:52,400
that is actually. 
Let's say, it's psilocybin or 

1732
01:48:52,400 --> 01:48:54,500
whatever. 
It's all getting broken down 

1733
01:48:54,600 --> 01:48:57,500
funneled towards and I'm 
probably butchering his 

1734
01:48:57,500 --> 01:49:01,000
hypothesis a little bit here, 
but the idea that DMT is 

1735
01:49:01,000 --> 01:49:03,800
actually at the root of all of 
these compounds. 

1736
01:49:03,900 --> 01:49:08,300
And experiences, say saying 
that, when you take psilocybin, 

1737
01:49:08,300 --> 01:49:11,700
it's converted to DMT. 
Yeah, tryptamines are all broken

1738
01:49:11,700 --> 01:49:18,500
down into the same thing. 
Okay, I mean yeah, it depends on

1739
01:49:18,500 --> 01:49:23,800
the metabolic route. 
I mean, certainly DMT might have

1740
01:49:23,800 --> 01:49:27,000
an inactive metabolic product 
that is that is shared with 

1741
01:49:27,000 --> 01:49:34,500
psilocybin but that wouldn't 
necessarily mean that the DMT 

1742
01:49:34,500 --> 01:49:36,800
was responsible for the effects 
of psilocybin. 

1743
01:49:36,800 --> 01:49:41,600
However, if psilocybin was 
converted in Vivo inside the 

1744
01:49:41,600 --> 01:49:49,300
body to DMT, Then that would 
potentially be responsible for 

1745
01:49:49,300 --> 01:49:53,200
some of the effects, but I think
the biochemically I'd have to 

1746
01:49:53,200 --> 01:49:55,600
read the paper. 
I'm ashamed to say, I have not 

1747
01:49:55,600 --> 01:49:59,000
read that paper so I can't tell 
you exactly what he was getting 

1748
01:49:59,000 --> 01:50:01,400
at. 
I mean, he's an analytical, 

1749
01:50:01,400 --> 01:50:07,000
chemist Steven Barker, so he's 
very good with analyzing the 

1750
01:50:07,000 --> 01:50:11,300
concentrations and teasing apart
the molecular constituents of of

1751
01:50:11,300 --> 01:50:16,100
plants. 
It's and other kind of chemical 

1752
01:50:16,100 --> 01:50:17,600
mixtures. 
I'm not sure that he's a 

1753
01:50:17,608 --> 01:50:20,800
neuroscientist that such, but if
you interest in the kind of the 

1754
01:50:21,000 --> 01:50:24,300
metabolism of these molecules, 
he's certainly the one to ask. 

1755
01:50:24,300 --> 01:50:26,500
Say, he probably know better 
than I would, but I think 

1756
01:50:26,500 --> 01:50:30,400
converting psilocin, which is 
the active component of 

1757
01:50:30,400 --> 01:50:32,400
mushrooms. 
So psilocybin is converted 

1758
01:50:32,400 --> 01:50:34,100
dephosphorylated to see. 
Listen. 

1759
01:50:34,500 --> 01:50:38,700
So to get to DMT, then have to 
remove this oxygen is hydroxyl 

1760
01:50:38,700 --> 01:50:42,900
group from we as Lisa, listen, 
Saul Sons, one molecule away, 

1761
01:50:42,900 --> 01:50:44,400
right? 
All you have to do is As you 

1762
01:50:44,400 --> 01:50:48,200
just mentioned yes. 
So say listen to get themselves 

1763
01:50:48,200 --> 01:50:51,400
into DMT. 
It's so sillas in is for hydroxy

1764
01:50:51,700 --> 01:50:54,800
DMT. 
So to get from solisten to the 

1765
01:50:54,800 --> 01:50:59,200
Mt, need to remove that oxygen, 
which is not actually a normal 

1766
01:50:59,200 --> 01:51:01,800
process in the human body. 
Normally, what you would do is 

1767
01:51:02,300 --> 01:51:05,100
attach something else to the 
hydroxyl and make it more water 

1768
01:51:05,100 --> 01:51:08,400
soluble. 
So I'd be surprised very 

1769
01:51:08,400 --> 01:51:13,500
surprised if soliciting was 
being converted to DMT in the 

1770
01:51:13,500 --> 01:51:16,500
body and of Course that could 
never work with something LSD, 

1771
01:51:16,600 --> 01:51:21,500
which certainly has a much more 
complex ring structure. 

1772
01:51:21,500 --> 01:51:23,700
That's certainly not going to be
converted to DMT. 

1773
01:51:24,000 --> 01:51:27,200
So I don't think we can say that
the MTA who's responsible for 

1774
01:51:27,200 --> 01:51:30,600
the effects of LSD and, you 
know, all the other molecules I 

1775
01:51:30,608 --> 01:51:32,700
think they all have. 
Again, I'd have the Oreo. 

1776
01:51:33,900 --> 01:51:37,200
Yeah, they all work by the same 
mechanism, broadly in that, 

1777
01:51:37,200 --> 01:51:40,400
they're all binding to the same 
kind of receptor sites, but they

1778
01:51:40,400 --> 01:51:46,200
all they all work in a slide. 
All right. 

1779
01:51:46,200 --> 01:51:49,000
Well yeah, let's wrap it up 
here. 

1780
01:51:49,500 --> 01:51:52,800
I did want to ask you one more 
thing and I'm trying to think it

1781
01:51:52,800 --> 01:51:59,700
was just a basic. 
Maybe. 

1782
01:51:59,900 --> 01:52:04,400
Oh, I know what it was. 
Have you ever heard of an Osa? 

1783
01:52:04,400 --> 01:52:07,500
Be era. 
Grew grew assassins. 

1784
01:52:08,100 --> 01:52:12,400
Origination is maybe. 
Yeah, I'd also be originated 

1785
01:52:12,400 --> 01:52:15,200
students. 
I always love the it's a crazy 

1786
01:52:15,200 --> 01:52:20,600
word, right? 
Yeah of course yeah this is so 

1787
01:52:20,600 --> 01:52:23,300
this is one one of the mushrooms
that contains a very high 

1788
01:52:23,300 --> 01:52:29,900
concentrations of this 
origination Someone that people 

1789
01:52:29,900 --> 01:52:31,900
always tell me what it how it's 
pronounced, I always forget. 

1790
01:52:31,900 --> 01:52:35,500
But anyway, originated maybe 
which is this try methylated 

1791
01:52:35,500 --> 01:52:42,700
version of citizen of psilocybin
but it's probably doesn't get 

1792
01:52:42,700 --> 01:52:45,300
into the brain. 
I don't think with those three 

1793
01:52:45,300 --> 01:52:47,900
methyl group, it has a positive 
charge on the nitrogen. 

1794
01:52:48,100 --> 01:52:50,600
Your because the paper I read 
was talking about how it could 

1795
01:52:50,600 --> 01:52:57,700
be like the CBD to THC, but for 
the psilocybin realm, where it 

1796
01:52:57,700 --> 01:53:00,000
could enhance. 
We have an Entourage effect or 

1797
01:53:00,008 --> 01:53:01,900
something along those lines. 
Yeah. 

1798
01:53:01,900 --> 01:53:07,600
I mean I wrote a post on my sub,
stack three-part post articles 

1799
01:53:07,600 --> 01:53:10,800
on, on the so-called Entourage 
effect in mushrooms. 

1800
01:53:10,800 --> 01:53:16,600
And origination is it's probably
if there is a CBD type element, 

1801
01:53:16,600 --> 01:53:19,700
something that's more bodily, 
something that's more outside. 

1802
01:53:19,700 --> 01:53:22,600
The brain that has effect on the
nervous system, peripheral 

1803
01:53:22,600 --> 01:53:27,000
nervous system rather than the 
central nervous system. 

1804
01:53:27,100 --> 01:53:30,400
I think that originating Would 
be the molecule there, because 

1805
01:53:30,400 --> 01:53:34,100
it does seem to me looking at it
structure that it would have a 

1806
01:53:34,108 --> 01:53:37,300
very hard time getting into the 
brain working in the same way 

1807
01:53:37,300 --> 01:53:43,500
that soliciting or DMT does. 
So, yeah, I think I've never 

1808
01:53:43,500 --> 01:53:46,700
consume that particular variety 
of mushrooms, so I can't tell 

1809
01:53:46,700 --> 01:53:49,500
you what it feels like. 
Yeah, I'm interested. 

1810
01:53:49,500 --> 01:53:53,100
I want to try for sure. 
All right, well, let's write one

1811
01:53:53,100 --> 01:53:55,800
more question from a fan. 
We got one person hanging around

1812
01:53:56,000 --> 01:53:59,700
Donnie Brasco, he said, Let's 
see here. 

1813
01:54:00,100 --> 01:54:02,800
Have you heard of the new 
molecule, they discovered by 

1814
01:54:03,500 --> 01:54:07,000
adding Freebase DMT to magic 
mushrooms as they grow. 

1815
01:54:07,400 --> 01:54:12,300
It says, if you freed psilocybe,
mushrooms 5 m e0 DMT, or if you 

1816
01:54:12,300 --> 01:54:14,800
feed, I'm sorry, if you feed 
slow speed mushrooms, 5, m, EO, 

1817
01:54:14,800 --> 01:54:19,000
D Mt, they will convert to 5 h, 
o5 m EO D Mt. 

1818
01:54:19,000 --> 01:54:21,100
What about that? 
Yes, this is ya, Goin. 

1819
01:54:21,100 --> 01:54:23,400
I wrote a Twitter thread on 
this. 

1820
01:54:23,400 --> 01:54:25,800
So, this is Siloam with oxen is 
what they call it. 

1821
01:54:26,000 --> 01:54:31,600
So it's like it's like the 
molecular Ian of 5 m e0 with 

1822
01:54:31,800 --> 01:54:35,800
with solisten. 
So so 5 m, EO D Mt as a five 

1823
01:54:35,800 --> 01:54:40,900
methoxy group on the ring is a 
ring of the methoxy group on the

1824
01:54:40,900 --> 01:54:43,400
Fly position. 
Soliciting has a methoxy 

1825
01:54:43,700 --> 01:54:46,200
hydroxyl group on the 4 
position. 

1826
01:54:46,300 --> 01:54:47,900
Yeah. 
It's when you put them both 

1827
01:54:47,900 --> 01:54:53,500
together, you get for hydroxy 
five, methoxy DMT, which you can

1828
01:54:53,500 --> 01:54:58,100
get by feeding this, a DMV feed 
five neo2, these mushrooms, they

1829
01:54:58,100 --> 01:55:02,000
will, Not that hydroxyl group in
that for position, she's what 

1830
01:55:02,000 --> 01:55:03,700
they do, they have the enzymes 
for that. 

1831
01:55:03,700 --> 01:55:07,300
So then you get this Silo 
methoxy molecule which you know 

1832
01:55:07,300 --> 01:55:10,900
there's like a church of Siloam 
a fox in that's established 

1833
01:55:10,900 --> 01:55:13,600
themselves. 
And apparently they have a very 

1834
01:55:13,600 --> 01:55:17,000
wonderful experiences with it. 
I've never tried it. 

1835
01:55:17,600 --> 01:55:23,600
There is a small possible risk 
when you have these two oxygen 

1836
01:55:23,700 --> 01:55:26,200
bearing groups at that position 
on the ring. 

1837
01:55:26,200 --> 01:55:30,300
We know that. 
They can be near a toxic. 

1838
01:55:30,700 --> 01:55:37,300
So the 45 hydroxyl variant is 
known to be neurotoxic and is 

1839
01:55:37,300 --> 01:55:41,600
used to actually causes lesions 
in experimental animals brains. 

1840
01:55:42,400 --> 01:55:45,800
But there's no evidence that 
this side of my toxin has the 

1841
01:55:45,800 --> 01:55:49,900
same neurotoxicity because that 
has this methyl group has 

1842
01:55:49,900 --> 01:55:52,400
released five methoxy not five 
hydroxy. 

1843
01:55:52,700 --> 01:55:56,800
So it's probably fine. 
But we just don't know. 

1844
01:55:58,700 --> 01:56:01,100
Whether I'm Keen to try it. 
I'm not sure. 

1845
01:56:01,100 --> 01:56:03,000
I mean nature is prevent, oh, 
you're still. 

1846
01:56:03,000 --> 01:56:06,900
You're still down to try that 
cell phone or and be methoxy or 

1847
01:56:07,300 --> 01:56:11,200
methoxy ether whatever that is 
that extended state of God. 

1848
01:56:11,200 --> 01:56:16,100
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
She's probably right about that.

1849
01:56:16,100 --> 01:56:19,000
Might make a post on that. 
Yeah, that's really cool at last

1850
01:56:19,000 --> 01:56:23,700
like, like Salvadoran. 
But last four The hours that was

1851
01:56:23,700 --> 01:56:24,700
because we were talking about 
that. 

1852
01:56:24,700 --> 01:56:27,900
The last time you were on we 
were talking about smoking 

1853
01:56:27,900 --> 01:56:31,700
Salvia versus eater chewing the 
quids and how you were talking 

1854
01:56:31,700 --> 01:56:36,300
about how the lingual contact re
initiates the experience as 

1855
01:56:36,300 --> 01:56:38,700
opposed to smoking at once and 
flipping out. 

1856
01:56:38,800 --> 01:56:44,500
So yeah, we'll listen man, 
always fun. 

1857
01:56:44,500 --> 01:56:46,400
Having you on your wealth of 
knowledge. 

1858
01:56:46,400 --> 01:56:48,100
I love just asking you random 
questions. 

1859
01:56:48,100 --> 01:56:50,200
I've been wondering about 
because you actually study this 

1860
01:56:50,200 --> 01:56:53,400
stuff. 
So You are of course, welcome on

1861
01:56:53,400 --> 01:56:59,000
any time please. 
Please, please go by reality 

1862
01:56:59,000 --> 01:57:01,700
switch, Technologies. 
This thing's thick. 

1863
01:57:01,900 --> 01:57:05,400
It's juicy. 
It's it's an amazing. 

1864
01:57:05,500 --> 01:57:07,600
You know it's an amazing book. 
If you're curious on all the 

1865
01:57:07,600 --> 01:57:12,400
mechanisms and all the different
receptors and the way that you 

1866
01:57:12,400 --> 01:57:15,300
know, these things play off of 
our own Consciousness and how 

1867
01:57:15,300 --> 01:57:19,300
they could be used to, you know,
Deuce these states, check that 

1868
01:57:19,300 --> 01:57:22,400
out. 
Also this one alien In theory, 

1869
01:57:22,900 --> 01:57:25,100
again, you see all the stuff 
happening out there with 

1870
01:57:25,100 --> 01:57:27,600
balloons and UFOs and stuff like
that. 

1871
01:57:28,400 --> 01:57:31,600
Go make contact tonight folks 
read this book, you know. 

1872
01:57:33,100 --> 01:57:35,700
So yeah, you can check out all 
of Andrews. 

1873
01:57:35,700 --> 01:57:39,000
Links down below at alien 
insect.com, check out his sub 

1874
01:57:39,000 --> 01:57:42,600
stack. 
He's a wonderful follow on 

1875
01:57:42,600 --> 01:57:46,800
Twitter at a at alien insect. 
And I, again, I have all the 

1876
01:57:46,800 --> 01:57:49,900
links down below if you want to 
support mind Escape. 

1877
01:57:49,900 --> 01:57:51,400
All you have to do is click the 
link tree link. 

1878
01:57:51,500 --> 01:57:53,300
Down below. 
We have all of our stuff on 

1879
01:57:53,300 --> 01:57:55,700
their merch store. 
I have a new shirt where we're 

1880
01:57:55,700 --> 01:57:58,800
going to donate all the proceeds
to charity. 

1881
01:58:00,200 --> 01:58:02,400
Chris Wolford said something the
other day said, forget the 

1882
01:58:02,400 --> 01:58:04,500
balloons. 
So I put a forget, the balloons 

1883
01:58:04,500 --> 01:58:07,400
in quotation marks with a flying
saucer below it. 

1884
01:58:08,500 --> 01:58:12,600
And yeah, we've got our 
documentary coming out. 

1885
01:58:12,600 --> 01:58:14,900
It's going to be premiering at 
the Roswell, UFO Expo. 

1886
01:58:14,900 --> 01:58:18,500
You can buy tickets currently 
right now online at UFO 

1887
01:58:18,500 --> 01:58:21,600
Expo.com. 
We will Premiere in our The 

1888
01:58:21,608 --> 01:58:23,800
tenth. 
I think it's actually on the 

1889
01:58:23,900 --> 01:58:25,800
11th is one. 
We're premiering it, which is, 

1890
01:58:25,800 --> 01:58:28,800
it's Saturday. 
And Andrew, is actually a big 

1891
01:58:28,800 --> 01:58:31,300
part of the documentary. 
Our documentary is called as 

1892
01:58:31,300 --> 01:58:35,000
within. 
So, without from UFOs to DMT and

1893
01:58:35,100 --> 01:58:39,000
he will be a big portion of the 
DMT part, as well as some of the

1894
01:58:39,008 --> 01:58:41,600
crossover because let's face it.
There's a lot of weirdness 

1895
01:58:41,600 --> 01:58:45,800
happening in these Realms so 
anything else. 

1896
01:58:45,800 --> 01:58:47,200
Oh yeah, check out our other 
podcasts. 

1897
01:58:47,200 --> 01:58:50,200
The Roswell UFO Symposium, I do 
it with Shane. 

1898
01:58:50,200 --> 01:58:53,100
Who is on here earlier? 
And our other buddy Toby who's 

1899
01:58:53,100 --> 01:58:55,800
currently in the ER he got bit 
by some sort of weird bug or 

1900
01:58:55,800 --> 01:58:58,100
Scorpions. 
So hope you're feeling better 

1901
01:58:58,100 --> 01:59:02,200
out there Toby and yeah I'm just
trying to think if there's 

1902
01:59:02,200 --> 01:59:05,300
anything else here. 
Oh new logo, shout out to 

1903
01:59:05,300 --> 01:59:06,800
Aubrey. 
Thank you so much for the new 

1904
01:59:06,800 --> 01:59:09,900
logo. 
I love it and if anybody needs 

1905
01:59:09,900 --> 01:59:14,100
any sort of creative work, 
whether it be a logo or 

1906
01:59:14,400 --> 01:59:16,300
animation or anything like that.
Please. 

1907
01:59:16,300 --> 01:59:19,000
Check out Aubree's links. 
I will add it down below. 

1908
01:59:19,600 --> 01:59:21,400
And again, thank you so much 
Andrew. 

1909
01:59:21,500 --> 01:59:24,000
Drew. 
Yeah, I'm really looking forward

1910
01:59:24,000 --> 01:59:27,400
to what you put out next. 
And yeah, let us know if you 

1911
01:59:27,400 --> 01:59:29,100
need anything. 
You are always welcome on the 

1912
01:59:29,100 --> 01:59:32,400
show. 
Thank you very much, Mike. 

1913
01:59:32,900 --> 01:59:35,400
I'll see you again. 
Yeah, maybe Maurice will be back

1914
01:59:35,400 --> 01:59:37,100
next time. 
He's currently editing. 

1915
01:59:37,800 --> 01:59:39,700
I've got them in the worksheet. 
Talking about elves. 

1916
01:59:39,700 --> 01:59:43,200
I've got little Maurice in the 
works Workshop editing or 

1917
01:59:43,208 --> 01:59:46,900
documentary. 
So all right I'm gonna play our 

1918
01:59:46,900 --> 01:59:50,400
documentary trailer as we leave.
And again, we love everybody. 

1919
01:59:50,700 --> 01:59:52,900
Stay safe out there and we'll 
catch you next time. 

1920
01:59:53,000 --> 02:00:05,000
Peace. 
Is it real? 

1921
02:00:05,000 --> 02:00:07,000
Or is it not? 
That's what you're asking me. 

1922
02:00:09,300 --> 02:00:13,700
I still to this day can't find 
any rational explanation for 

1923
02:00:13,700 --> 02:00:18,100
what I saw. 
Extremely intelligent 

1924
02:00:18,100 --> 02:00:22,100
apparently, highly Advanced 
hyper technological. 

1925
02:00:22,100 --> 02:00:27,700
Be I think that we just don't 
look at the perception of 

1926
02:00:27,700 --> 02:00:34,400
reality in the right way. 
Yet I got very close to the 

1927
02:00:34,400 --> 02:00:39,400
point that I could see just one 
big light and then it stopped 

1928
02:00:39,500 --> 02:00:43,500
and then it shot up in the sky, 
you know, you know you're not 

1929
02:00:43,500 --> 02:00:48,200
dreaming but you wonder how real
any of it really is? 

1930
02:00:49,300 --> 02:00:53,500
It dawned on me it was real this
this took place but then I still

1931
02:00:53,500 --> 02:00:55,700
didn't do anything with it. 
Never said anything anyway. 

1932
02:00:57,100 --> 02:01:01,900
There is some mind-altering 
aspect to these UFO encounters. 

1933
02:01:02,500 --> 02:01:04,500
A lot of people get a sense of 
missing. 

1934
02:01:04,500 --> 02:01:08,300
Time I noticed that these three 
stars were kind of in a 

1935
02:01:08,300 --> 02:01:10,600
formation. 
It was a triangular formation 

1936
02:01:12,100 --> 02:01:16,500
condensed into entities or 
beings that you interact with 

1937
02:01:16,500 --> 02:01:22,300
who are sentient the chemicals 
which are going into our brain 

1938
02:01:22,700 --> 02:01:26,200
are making the unconscious 
archetypes Kamala. 

1939
02:01:26,300 --> 02:01:32,500
Like how things evolve from pure
energy to matter. 

1940
02:01:34,700 --> 02:01:39,200
Definitely was kind of a 
paradigm shifting moment. 

1941
02:01:41,200 --> 02:01:44,400
As we continue to evolve in our 
own Consciousness, we will 

1942
02:01:44,400 --> 02:01:47,600
perceive of new modes of 
interpretation, but that may be 

1943
02:01:47,600 --> 02:01:52,900
dependent upon how this supposed
phenomenon reveals itself to us.

1944
02:01:55,300 --> 02:01:59,400
And sure why we discredit The 
Human Experience. 

1945
02:01:59,400 --> 02:02:05,000
When it's not in alignment with 
our current belief system, it's 

1946
02:02:05,000 --> 02:02:10,000
important to consider that one. 
We don't really understand what 

1947
02:02:10,000 --> 02:02:12,300
I mines do. 
Under the influence of 

1948
02:02:12,300 --> 02:02:17,200
psychedelics, they all attached 
to the reality of some other 

1949
02:02:17,200 --> 02:02:19,600
realm we call it. 
The Paranormal, doesn't matter 

1950
02:02:19,600 --> 02:02:22,500
what you call it, spiritual 
realm, Supernatural, 

1951
02:02:22,500 --> 02:02:27,400
metaphysical, doesn't matter. 
The fact that we're essentially 

1952
02:02:27,400 --> 02:02:30,500
vibrating energy in a sentence 
and the when this experience is 

1953
02:02:30,500 --> 02:02:33,600
over, that, that particular 
energy transforms and doesn't 

1954
02:02:33,600 --> 02:02:37,100
buy because it can't buy fills 
me with a lot of comfort that 

1955
02:02:37,100 --> 02:02:39,600
there is something else after 
this so-called here. 

1956
02:02:39,600 --> 02:02:46,300
And now, they show you how much 
of your reality is subjective 

1957
02:02:46,300 --> 02:02:49,900
and fragile and capable of being
influenced by a psychedelic 

1958
02:02:49,900 --> 02:02:53,600
drug. 
It's only from a scientific 

1959
02:02:53,600 --> 02:02:57,200
background, you come up with 
some Asians that range from 

1960
02:02:57,400 --> 02:03:02,000
geomagnetic through atmosphere 
to something that's physical in 

1961
02:03:02,000 --> 02:03:05,000
nature. 
There's a lot more out there 

1962
02:03:05,000 --> 02:03:07,100
that we don't know than we do 
know. 

1963
02:03:08,900 --> 02:03:12,500
Is that the entire system the 
human body is effectively a 

1964
02:03:12,500 --> 02:03:17,900
stimulation response machine. 
I think something's here, I 

1965
02:03:17,900 --> 02:03:20,000
don't know what it is. 
I don't know where it's from. 

1966
02:03:20,100 --> 02:03:25,600
It could be extraterrestrial. 
I'll tell it made a full 

1967
02:03:25,600 --> 02:03:29,000
rotation and then it just hit an
insane speed and just shot up 

1968
02:03:29,000 --> 02:03:33,700
straight into the atmosphere. 
I think that there's compelling 

1969
02:03:33,700 --> 02:03:37,800
evidence that psychedelics have 
played a significant role in 

1970
02:03:37,800 --> 02:03:45,400
human evolution over a long 
period of time the owl view of 

1971
02:03:45,400 --> 02:03:47,800
reality. 
The reality we experience on a 

1972
02:03:47,808 --> 02:03:51,100
day-to-day basis, seems to be 
this very, very thin slice of 

1973
02:03:51,100 --> 02:03:54,000
something. 
All of stress and far more 

1974
02:04:04,600 --> 02:04:10,500
as within. 
So, without from UFOs to DMT.