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Welcome to another episode of 
The News Navigators with me, 

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Jeremy Deacon. 
And me, Jonathan Sterling. 

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We're we're recording this on 
Thursday, February the 19th, 

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tomorrow, Friday is the budget. 
So we're just going to have a 

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little fun speculating about 
what might be in the budget and 

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who is going to please and who 
isn't. 

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It's going to please. 
And there was a very interesting

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report released recently, the 
annual report of the Bermuda 

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Judiciary, which raised quite a 
few issues, not least about the 

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independence of the judiciary 
via their pay. 

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And it's a fascinating thought. 
I think first of all, Jonathan, 

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we, we both talked about this 
and I think it's only right and 

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proper that we should pay a 
short tribute or a tribute to 

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Ciola Wilson. 
I didn't work with Ciola a huge 

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amount, but I certainly came 
across her a lot and to me she 

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was a spiky character and I mean
that in the nicest possible way.

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I used to sit back at press 
conferences when she was there 

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and let her do the heavy lifting
because she was not afraid of 

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asking the tough questions. 
She was not afraid of saying 

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taking no for an answer. 
And I just love the way she made

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them squirm ministers and she 
wouldn't back down. 

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And, and to me, that is such an 
important part of being a 

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journalist. 
We need more people like her who

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won't take no for an answer, who
will say often on live TV or 

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live radio, that's not good 
enough. 

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And I and I think, you know, she
was brilliant at that kind of 

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thing. 
Sheila was a good reporter. 

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And I do wonder sometimes how 
far she may have gone and 

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whether there was. 
Well, there would have been a 

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good chance, I think you know, 
of her being the black, first 

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black female editor and I think 
that's long overdue in Bermuda. 

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Royal Gazette, you mean? 
Of of any newspapers such as 

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Sarah now, but of the Royal 
Gazette now. 

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It's long overdue. 
But yeah, she'll be best. 

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She'll be greatly amazed and I 
know a lot of ministers will be 

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sighing a sigh of relief. 
She was certainly formidable. 

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I always celebrated her 
confidence. 

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As you say, she was willing to 
ask questions and she wouldn't 

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be fobbed off by by kind of 
misdirection questions. 

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She was laser focused. 
So yeah, it was very sad to hear

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for passing the other day. 
It was, and I hope she's 

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somewhere up there giving Saint 
Peter the Pearly Gates a hard 

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time. 
I'm sure she would. 

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I'm. 
Sure she would. 

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Yeah. 
Rest in peace, Deola and our our

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huge condolences to to her 
family. 

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Like I said, tomorrow's the 
budget eventually. 

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David Burt's last as finance 
minister. 

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I say that because I, I don't 
know about you, Jonathan, 

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keeping rumours that he wants to
stay on as finance minister when

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he steps down as premier. 
So this is the first budget 

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where he'll have significantly 
more money to play with because.

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The. 
Corporate income tax will have 

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been collected and reports are 
suggesting an extra 600 million 

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or so in revenue on top of the 
usual revenue from taxes 

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etcetera. 
Now we had the pre budget report

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last year. 
So I don't think there's going 

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to be too many surprises. 
We know that he's going to 

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follow the tax Reform Commission
recommendations partially or 

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completely, he said, which among
those were cutting the employer 

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payroll tax portion, eliminating
duty on the production, supply 

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and delivery of electricity. 
It cost a living tax there. 

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Also looking at relieving health
insurance costs for the 

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underinsured and the elderly. 
So I think we can see more money

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into the health insurance 
system. 

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And also importantly, he said, 
I'm going to quote this, the 

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debt over assets rule over a 
rolling period of of three years

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of at least three years, at 
least 70% of net corporate 

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income tax revenues should be 
diverted to paying debt interest

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and reducing that debt or 
accumulating that financial 

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assets. 
So I think we know that we know 

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roughly what's going to happen. 
This is we all know the devil's 

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in the detail. 
The Tax Reform Commission did 

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bring out its waterfall system 
for corporate income tax and 

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very quickly running through it 
did say Stability fund 100 

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million a year debt sinking fund
200 million Senior healthcare 

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support 30 mil during short 
healthcare 12 million employer 

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payroll tax reduction 68. 
Low income healthcare subsidy 

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18,000,000. 
Utility tax relief 8 million BE 

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payroll tax reduction 
24,000,000. 

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Employer health insurance 
subsidy 19,000,000 and the 

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elimination of the foreign 
foreign currency purchase tax is

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31 million. 
As I said, a lot of those have 

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been indicated that are actually
going to happen tomorrow. 

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How much in terms of money will 
be interesting. 

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What are your predictions, 
Jonathan? 

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Yeah. 
I mean, as you say, the CIT is a

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bit of a, the corporate income 
tax is a bit of a game changer. 

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And this is the the first budget
where that's happening. 

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And it's also, as you mentioned,
the last budget that the Premier

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is going to be giving as 
Premier. 

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Whether he is reappointed as a 
Minister of Finance in the 

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future, we don't know. 
The reason we say that, 

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listeners, is because the 
Premier has already said he's 

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not contesting the 
constitutional leadership 

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election for the PLP's 
leadership in this coming 

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October. 
And whoever becomes the new 

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leader of the PLP, and thus the 
new Premier, has the right to 

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appoint. 
There are ministers, and there's

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no guarantee that David Burt 
will be made a Minister of 

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Finance. 
You might want to take a little 

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break. 
Yeah. 

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But at the same time, you know, 
with this being his last budget,

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his last no one budget, you 
never know what's going to 

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happen in the future. 
He's going to want to go out 

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with a legacy. 
And I think his emphasis is 

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going to be on trying to get 
that, you know, that look, the 

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PLP has reined in government 
debt and we are now creating a 

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budget surplus going forward and
an end to austerity. 

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I think it's going to try to go 
out with a bang, but like a 

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responsible bang, if that makes 
sense. 

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Yeah, a responsible bang. 
I think that does make sense. 

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I kind of, I think we know the 
cost of living is a massive 

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issue. 
Yeah. 

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And I'm sure there'll be a big 
emphasis on the cost of living, 

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whether that's through, you 
know, reducing fees on the 

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utilities, whether that's 
through a tax reduction for 

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employees and employers for 
their payroll, we'll see. 

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But that's the major issue. 
We had the reports about 

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inflation edging up last 
September, massively out of 

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date. 
But among that was a big rise in

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food and among that also was a 
big rise in health insurance 

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costs. 
And, you know, those are huge 

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drivers of cost of living, so I 
wouldn't be surprised if we see 

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an awful lot of emphasis on 
that. 

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And there's also. 
A lot of on infrastructure as 

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well. 
Yeah, I was about to say there's

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a lot of capital infrastructure 
which is coming to the end of 

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its lifetime and we need to re 
replace them. 

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Meantime's Bay is a massive 1. 
There's been long term, long 

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running talks since Hurricane 
Fabian about the the the swing 

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bridge, you know, Saint George 
and Saint David's type thing. 

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Well, the plans have been drawn 
up for that, haven't they? 

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But I think it was a 20 million 
price tag. 

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Yeah, and so FCIC. 
Well, but don't be surprised. 

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Don't be surprised. 
And there's also the, the 

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agricultural, I forget his 
proper name right now, but the 

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agricultural centre up by Cedar 
Bridge by prospect that's been 

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in dire need of economic 
investments and there's been 

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plans to build a new the 
agricultural centre there that 

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that's very important for local 
agriculture in terms of having 

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storage for their their crops 
going. 

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Well, that was if you remember 
the planning permission or 

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permission for that was given 
just before the 2025 election. 

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Yeah. 
And so I expect. 

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This. 
I mean, part of that was in the 

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in the last election, farmers 
and fishers were protesting. 

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Yeah. 
It was. 

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That was a huge piece of 
electioneering and actually I 

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think that was announced after 
the election was called and 

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probably should not have been 
announced. 

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Well, I mean there have been 
plans going back a couple years 

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to about replacing the 
agricultural centre, but I agree

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it should not have necessarily 
been announced after Parliament 

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is provoked. 
Once the rate is dropped, 

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everything is supposed to go 
into kind of hibernation, No new

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yeah. 
There's no policy announcements 

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allowed. 
Yeah. 

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Anyway I. 
Would expect that to be one of 

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the capital infrastructure. 
Things. 

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Yeah, yeah. 
I was going to say that 

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education infrastructure was 
going to be raised, but the 

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whole education reform system is
in a bit of a hiatus. 

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I know we're going to talk about
that more. 

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That's a polite way of saying 
for it, yeah. 

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The education reform system is 
somewhat paused at the moment 

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while they do a rethink. 
We're going to look at that 

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more, I think next week. 
Just to put that in, just to put

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that in context, Crystal Caesar 
announced that there is a pause 

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and you can stay in middle, you 
can stay in middle school, or 

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you can stay in primary school. 
And it looks like the two 

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systems are going to run side by
side. 

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So your parish and and middle 
school are run side by side. 

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Instead of getting rid of middle
schools, they're going to stay. 

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It's all incredibly confusing it
it really is. 

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But if Jonathan was saying that,
we are going to have a deep dive

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on that next week because it's 
going to take us a week to 

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actually research it and get. 
Out of it, another big factor is

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of course, you know, government 
debts. 

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I believe there's a huge, huge 
loan that has to be repaid in 

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January 2027. 
I want to say around $600 

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million. 
It's around 600 mil. 

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Yeah, right. 
And I, I seem to recall there 

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was $500 million set aside for 
that. 

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Right. 
Well, I expect that to be in the

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budget tomorrow. 
I think you raised the question 

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whether they pay the whole thing
off. 

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No, I what I want to see is how 
much they put aside for debt 

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repayment tomorrow. 
I mean, no matter how much they 

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put in, there's always going to 
be someone saying that all of 

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that it's not enough and all of 
the CIT goes to into it. 

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I think I prefer more, more of 
the middle weight pay off as 

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much as we can, but also make 
sure that we're maintaining and 

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investing in the things that 
need to be done now. 

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I think that's very true. 
And I think, you know, the cost 

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of living is a really serious 
issue for Bermudians and 

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anything that can free up some 
cash or can subsidized the cost 

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of living in some ways really, 
really important. 

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We saw that cost of living 
report that came out last year 

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from under Minister Alexa 
Lightbourne and the Minister of 

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Home Affairs, and we had a 
podcast about it at the time. 

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And I think we noted that some 
of the plans were more like 

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concepts of a plan rather than 
actual plans. 

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So it will be interesting to see
how the budget plays into that 

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because then you can see what 
aspects of that cost of living 

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agenda is now being prioritized.
Well, I imagine if, if, if the 

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budget can only really focus on 
on finances. 

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So I imagine it'll be about 
putting more cash in people's 

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pockets. 
Through, yes, but you can see 

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what things are going to be 
financed. 

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Type thing it's going to be, 
yeah, it'll be interesting to 

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see. 
I think the main driver is going

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to be tax relief though, in 
terms of. 

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Yeah. 
I mean, there's the they're 

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reducing duty on a lot of staple
basket staples. 

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They did. 
Say they introduced they'd 

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increased that basket didn't 
they, of staples that were duty 

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free. 
They'll be interested to see 

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where there's a list of that. 
I agree. 

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Because I mean. 
I wonder if the capital projects

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might be things like, you know, 
better investment in solar. 

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Could be, I mean Colonel, when 
he was the Minister of Public 

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Works he was trying to really 
drive a lot of the government 

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owned buildings to have more 
solar on it. 

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The idea being to reduce their 
BELCO bill and then save the 

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public sector money. 
And that seems to have gone very

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quiet there, doesn't it? 
Yeah. 

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I mean, we have a new minister 
of the Public Works, Joshay 

229
00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:10,440
Hayward, and of course he's been
focused more on the roads in the

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00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:12,280
initial stage. 
Joshay. 

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00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:14,920
Adams mate, you're conflating 2 
ministers that. 

232
00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,600
What did I say? 
Joshay Hayward. 

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00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:21,520
My bad, I'm sorry. 
He's right. 

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00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:27,800
I should have had him another 
espresso, but that that actually

235
00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:32,920
raises a good point. 
Jason Hayward is many people I 

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hear are thinking he's a likely 
contender for the leadership 

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election coming up in October. 
You know, we we digress, but 

238
00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,600
it's worth it. 
I could have sworn at some stage

239
00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,120
he ruled himself out. 
But it's funny you say that 

240
00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:51,520
because a couple of people have 
contacted me to say that on 

241
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:55,640
overseas visits, when David Burt
and Jason Haywood are both 

242
00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:59,120
there, David Burt is basically 
introducing him as his 

243
00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:00,800
successor. 
Right. 

244
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:03,840
Well, the only reason I 
mentioned that is because with 

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the budget, we're going to kind 
of see me see the different 

246
00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,240
ministers and different 
contenders for the leadership 

247
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going to try to hog the 
limelight to, you know, raise 

248
00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:14,960
their profile. 
I mean, they're speaking more to

249
00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:19,240
PLP members who are members of 
the public as well, but trying 

250
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:23,160
to get their support for the 
upcoming leadership election. 

251
00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,480
So that's one thing that I am 
going to be keeping an eye on to

252
00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,680
see what the different 
leadership contenders are going 

253
00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,360
to be saying about their 
ministry and the budget. 

254
00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:34,680
And that's the reason I was 
thinking about Jason Hayward 

255
00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:36,960
there. 
We also know Zane De Silva, the 

256
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:41,240
deputy Premier and the Minister 
of Housing, he's already thrown 

257
00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:43,800
his hat in the ring and you 
know, housing is a big issue. 

258
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,400
So I'd expect housing will be 
also something to watch in the 

259
00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,720
budget. 
Well, they have a serious press 

260
00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:51,720
conferences aren't don't they, 
after the budget. 

261
00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,920
So next week we'll see different
ministers, we'll see which ones 

262
00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,560
stand up to the to the public 
and and the scrutiny and what 

263
00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:00,400
they say. 
It'll be very interesting to 

264
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:01,280
watch. 
I agree. 

265
00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:03,640
But I think yeah, we, we can 
talk about cost of living 

266
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reductions as a certainty, 
infrastructure. 

267
00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:11,840
I think also those things to try
and get job creation, increase 

268
00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,160
local spending perhaps and 
obviously the debt reduction. 

269
00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,520
There's a couple of things I 
personally haven't heard much 

270
00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:21,440
about and whether you have, 
Jonathan, I don't know. 

271
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,400
I've not seen an awful lot about
this stability fund. 

272
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,480
And I think that's absolutely 
crucial because CI corporate 

273
00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:32,240
income tax revenue can be very 
volatile or will be very 

274
00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,320
volatile. 
I've not seen anything about 

275
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,720
that. 
I may have missed it in terms of

276
00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,440
maybe they named it something 
else, maybe they went into the 

277
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:44,200
sinking fund and I missed it. 
But I think that's going to be 

278
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:48,000
absolutely crucial. 
But I wonder also, you know, 

279
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,920
that I'm, I'm taking this isn't 
an original thought by any means

280
00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:57,200
because I, I saw it on a comment
on, on one of the RG stories who

281
00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,760
said that basically there's, 
there's the budget won't include

282
00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:02,920
long term planning. 
David Burt has said it will 

283
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:07,560
include long term planning and 
there is an opportunity there. 

284
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,880
I just wonder in what form 
because normally kind of budgets

285
00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,880
are in that for the next year, 
aren't they or two years often 

286
00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,320
to please the electorate. 
And I'm I'm not necessarily long

287
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:21,400
term, but I'm really intrigued 
as to what could be long term. 

288
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:25,360
I mean, obviously the debt 
reduction is long term, but what

289
00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,080
else could we be looking at? 
Hey, I'm kind of. 

290
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,200
Well, infrastructure's kind of a
long term thing. 

291
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,400
It's got a long shelf life, so I
would imagine that would be part

292
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:34,920
of it. 
We don't have a national 

293
00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,680
infrastructure plan to identify 
what needs to be done and the 

294
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,280
priority, you know, to triage 
it. 

295
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:43,640
That's something I think we 
should do because you're right, 

296
00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,800
budgets are often just one year 
term and that makes it hard for 

297
00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,000
you to plan longer term 
projects. 

298
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,160
There's no guarantee that you're
going to get the the support you

299
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:54,960
need for multi years. 
So yeah, I could see an argument

300
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,600
for even multi year budgets for 
some things. 

301
00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,400
Well, David by the Premier did 
suggest a budget every two 

302
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,000
years, didn't they? 
And that's partly because of the

303
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,119
planning issues of, you know, 
having to plan every year 

304
00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:08,800
instead of every two years. 
But I'm just wondering, you 

305
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,880
know, we whether we can see a 
substantial amount of money 

306
00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,359
perhaps being put in some sort 
of some sort of sovereign fund. 

307
00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:19,240
Right. 
For future projects or whether 

308
00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:23,960
we're going to see a long term 
plan funded over multiple years 

309
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,640
by corporate income tax. 
And really interesting to see if

310
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:31,720
he elaborates more on this issue
of long term planning. 

311
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,520
I mean, it could just be 
universal healthcare, of course,

312
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,600
which has been a long time 
talked about and nothing's 

313
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:40,560
really happened yet. 
I mean, I do expect the next 

314
00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:44,600
couple years to be a very 
volatile economically, globally 

315
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:45,880
speaking. 
And that's of course going to 

316
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,480
have an impact on Bermuda. 
I think tourism is probably 

317
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:54,280
going to see a bit of a decline 
this year, especially from the 

318
00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:56,960
American visitors who we are 
largely dependent on. 

319
00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:01,280
Except we will see the reopening
of the Southampton Princess in 

320
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,880
the summer, which will have a 
massive impact. 

321
00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:06,760
But here where you're coming 
from and it wasn't, it was last 

322
00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:08,880
week, wasn't it? 
The Straits of Hormuz were 

323
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,560
closed for a few hours by. 
Iran, Yeah. 

324
00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:15,480
I mean, by the time this this 
podcast goes live, there might 

325
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,200
be another war going on, right? 
Somewhat. 

326
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,440
Yeah, but just economically like
America, I can see the American 

327
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:29,040
people going to have a lot less 
liquid cash to to go for 

328
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,080
tourism. 
Their economy seems to doing 

329
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:36,080
quite well, bizarrely. 
I'm not convinced that that is 

330
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,000
like it is at the moment, but 
I'm not convinced that that is 

331
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,880
indicative of what's going to 
happen over the next 12 months. 

332
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:46,680
I think it's a bit of a bit of a
bubble going on on a few areas. 

333
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:51,400
So all the more reason then to 
have some clarity, certainty 

334
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,600
over this stability fund, yeah, 
which is going to be absolutely 

335
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,240
massive, I think. 
It's also going to be 

336
00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,760
interesting how the opposition 
plays out with this because of 

337
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:02,240
course they've got a new 
leadership. 

338
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,920
There's still a little 
instability over in the 

339
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,520
opposition camp at the moment. 
They haven't done a cabinet 

340
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:10,400
shuffle. 
We came to the idea. 

341
00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:13,800
I think you were saying that you
would expect the cabinet shuffle

342
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:17,960
to be post budget just to make 
sure that no one's not having to

343
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:23,200
learn a new brief overnight in. 
He got Doctor Keto and what is 

344
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:27,120
this, his second budget now? 
Think so. 

345
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,480
That's the shadow finance. 
So he's reasonably seasoned. 

346
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,280
He understands how it all works.
I actually I'd imagine he would 

347
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:38,640
still probably be the finance 
minister, shadow finance under 

348
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,600
any shuffle. 
But you know, it's going to be, 

349
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:43,960
I'm really intrigued by the 
budget. 

350
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:48,280
Is it David Burt's last hurrah? 
Is he going to do a, you know, a

351
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:52,000
legacy budget for him? 
Is he going to be sensible long 

352
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,640
term planning millions upon 
millions in the stability fund? 

353
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,040
He's got to answer the cost of 
living crisis the best he can. 

354
00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:01,760
It's all around quite 
interesting. 

355
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,760
I know I don't because they've 
never had so much money to play 

356
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,120
with. 
I mean, you've got an extra 600 

357
00:20:08,120 --> 00:20:13,320
million at your disposal. 
Yeah, I mean hopefully, but. 

358
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:18,720
The temptation, Just go and 
blast it all. 

359
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,320
Well, I don't know red or black,
you know. 

360
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:28,000
I certainly would like to invest
it in things that increase our 

361
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,760
self-sufficiency. 
So renewable energy to reduce 

362
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:35,440
our dependence on imports, 
agriculture, there's no way 

363
00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,200
we're ever going to produce 
enough food to supply all our 

364
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:40,360
needs. 
But I think there's a good 

365
00:20:40,360 --> 00:20:45,760
argument to increase our 
agricultural production or at 

366
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,480
least to reduce wastage, to 
increase our self-sufficiency. 

367
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,400
All of that gives us more sort 
of autonomy. 

368
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,120
And we're seeing going ahead 
right now with the way America's

369
00:20:57,120 --> 00:21:00,360
national security agenda is 
going there. 

370
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,000
You don't want to be too 
dependent on them. 

371
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:04,720
You don't have all your eggs in 
one basket. 

372
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,600
So I do think we should start 
investing in things that 

373
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,600
diversify our ability so that we
can be more autonomous. 

374
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,120
I agree. 
And I think in particular 

375
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,360
renewable energy, what's wrong? 
Somebody breaking in? 

376
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:21,360
I don't know. 
Yeah, you heard the dog. 

377
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,280
No, it was a dog, was it? 
Yeah, it was barking, so I was 

378
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:25,600
trying to find out what was 
going on. 

379
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:31,360
It was right by my ear. 
When he's when he record these 

380
00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:33,240
things, well, thank goodness we 
are recording them. 

381
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:37,000
Thing is, I can't edit them out.
I think renewables is is 

382
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:38,760
crucial. 
We hear a lot of talk about 

383
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:40,520
renewables and nothing really 
ever happens. 

384
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,200
Bringing me. 
I was thinking about what we're 

385
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,160
seeing, what's happening in Cuba
at the moment. 

386
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:47,160
They've got this massive 
stranglehold. 

387
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,720
It's really a crime of against 
humanity. 

388
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:50,600
It might. 
Be I agree. 

389
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,680
I agree. 
And Cuba is trying to massively 

390
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,760
increase their amount of 
renewable energy capacity. 

391
00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,560
China's sending them ship loads 
of solar panels right now just 

392
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,600
to try to function. 
And it's really distressing to 

393
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:09,480
me to see how CARICOM is just 
kind of not doing anything to 

394
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:13,920
support Cuba in this. 
Mexico's being strong arms. 

395
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,040
Venezuela's being taken over as 
an American colony already. 

396
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,560
Just the last week we had, well,
just a couple days ago, the 

397
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:27,400
Americans bombed the ship within
the national waters of I think 

398
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,480
Saint Vincent, not international
waters anymore, but actually 

399
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,840
within Saint Vincent waters. 
You know, they're just 

400
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,320
steamrolling over our 
sovereignty from the Caribbean. 

401
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,600
So that's why I was thinking 
about the need to increase 

402
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,440
Bermuda's self-sufficiency. 
Well, I think we should do 

403
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:45,160
anyway and wean ourself off oil 
because, you know, we I 

404
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,160
mentioned that Strait of almost 
was closed only for a couple of 

405
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:49,280
hours. 
You just need to close it for a 

406
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,400
month and the oil prices are 
going to go through the roof. 

407
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,120
It would be good to see kind of 
investment there. 

408
00:22:55,720 --> 00:23:01,920
I don't know, what do you think?
Listeners, viewers, I we would 

409
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:06,160
love to get your reaction to the
budget once you've listened to 

410
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:07,760
it. 
Or Reddit. 

411
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:13,080
If you e-mail the news now, 
visit gmail.com or WhatsApp 

412
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,760
5342205. 
If you don't want your name read

413
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,520
out, that's fine, just make sure
you say so. 

414
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,960
But we'd love to hear your 
opinions. 

415
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,400
Hopefully we're all going to be 
a lot richer at the end of it. 

416
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,440
The the other thing you 
mentioned earlier, Jeremy, was 

417
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,880
the judicial report and that's 
always quite interesting. 

418
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,400
It comes about this time of 
year, each year and it's always 

419
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,160
very interesting reading. 
I don't think it gets enough 

420
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,080
coverage in in other media. 
It didn't. 

421
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,160
That's one of the reasons I 
wanted to pick it up, because 

422
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,840
some extremely interesting take 
outs here, yeah. 

423
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,760
I mean, I remember even last 
year's one was fascinating to 

424
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,840
read, and this one as well, It's
interesting. 

425
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,800
You you, you'll have a different
opinion, but I, I got 3 take 

426
00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:01,680
outs. 1 was the increase, 
continuing increase they say in 

427
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,440
litigation between citizens and 
the government. 

428
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,280
Unfortunately it doesn't list 
what they are. 

429
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,640
There's been a few that I can 
remember rather reporting on or,

430
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,360
or reading about, but I'm really
intrigued in that. 

431
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,520
Which then actually leads on 
very nicely to the issue they've

432
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,880
got with judicial pay. 
Yeah, that's one thing I had 

433
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:25,560
never really thought about too 
much. 

434
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,040
So it was very interesting to 
see how the system works. 

435
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,800
So right now they're tied to the
civil service. 

436
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:32,720
They're. 
Tied to the civil service, yes, 

437
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:37,240
They don't have an independent 
body that sets their pay, so 

438
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,680
they, the judges and Co, have 
been asked to rule on cases 

439
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:46,240
involving the government. 
But they're paid by government, 

440
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:50,040
so it raises this spectre of a 
lack of independence. 

441
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:51,560
Yeah. 
I mean, I don't think there's 

442
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,440
any actual indication that they 
are being influenced by their 

443
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,320
decisions. 
But there's the optics as you 

444
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,680
say, which is is key. 
It's the optics. 

445
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:04,280
Yeah, and it's that extra. 
Firewall going forward. 

446
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,280
Yeah, but it puts an extra 
firewall there, doesn't it? 

447
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:08,600
Yeah. 
And like you said, there is, 

448
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,240
there is no indication that's 
happening. 

449
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,480
I must stress that. 
But it is like you said, the 

450
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,840
optics and that there is 
potential there. 

451
00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:17,800
Sorry Judge, you're not going to
get your pay your eyes unless 

452
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:19,840
you rule for me. 
Yeah. 

453
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,760
It it could happen. 
I mean it hasn't and I don't 

454
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:24,440
think it would. 
But like you say, it's the 

455
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,800
optics. 
My only question is then who 

456
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,120
does determine their pay? 
I mean you don't want the you 

457
00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:33,080
don't want necessarily to let 
let the wolf in charge of the 

458
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,000
hen house either, right? 
Not not that I'm saying judges 

459
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,360
and wolves in case I'm ever in 
before court. 

460
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,960
Careful what you say. 
I'm going to get hold before the

461
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:43,680
judge. 
Jonathan. 

462
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,440
I want to get back into the 
island please. 

463
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,560
OK. 
But I'm just saying, sure, how 

464
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:55,160
do we make sure that they their 
pay is not self-serving either? 

465
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,760
Separate body, independent 
separate body. 

466
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:06,280
Whether that separate body gets 
money, whether he gets his own 

467
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,160
revenue, whether he gets his own
finance, I don't know. 

468
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,560
I mean, it's still public. 
Money is no matter what. 

469
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,000
It is I, I think there's that 
has to be sorted out. 

470
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,040
But I, I've been quite 
intrigued. 

471
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,640
I've never thought about it 
before that there does probably 

472
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:25,400
need to be a separation there 
and then we can go back on these

473
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,760
in more detail. 
But I wanted to the the third 

474
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:34,600
take out was Justice Wolf, who 
did the criminal division report

475
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:39,160
1 Wolf. 
And he's calling this 20 years 

476
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,200
of young men who have been 
charged and convicted of 

477
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,920
violence for offences is calling
it epidemic proportions and 

478
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,680
urging that it should be treated
as a public health issue. 

479
00:26:49,120 --> 00:26:50,920
Very, very strong words from the
judge. 

480
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,120
Normally, you know, they don't 
get involved in things like that

481
00:26:54,120 --> 00:26:56,520
too much, don't get a bit 
political. 

482
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:58,160
But I think this is pretty 
political. 

483
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:02,160
There's only one organization 
that can treat it as a public 

484
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:03,480
health issue, and that is 
government. 

485
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,240
I mean, Justice Wolf has been 
kind of on the forefront of this

486
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,080
from the judiciary for some 
years. 

487
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:14,520
My I've always been quite 
impressed by his comments on 

488
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,680
various matters. 
I have. 

489
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,200
I've only met him a couple of 
times and that was to do with 

490
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,840
Home, the homeless charity who's
helping up with an draft 

491
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,000
legislation. 
But he's an extremely committed 

492
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,680
person, really is. 
But yeah, I mean, going back, 

493
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,040
you know, continued increase in 
litigation between citizen and 

494
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,080
the government. 
Now, why is that? 

495
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,600
Is this because poorly drafted 
legislation? 

496
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,520
And there have been examples of 
this. 

497
00:27:42,360 --> 00:27:45,560
Well, I mean, I'm not entirely 
sure which ones. 

498
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,160
I'm not sure which ones they 
involve. 

499
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,120
The ones that I can think of off
the top of my head is the was it

500
00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:54,040
mailboxes tried to sue Bermuda 
Post Office. 

501
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,280
It won as well. 
I mean that was a classic case 

502
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,360
wasn't it? 
Because the RFP had rules 

503
00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:03,640
haven't been followed properly. 
And the other one that I can 

504
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,920
think of, I'm not sure if this 
really counts as government 

505
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,760
because it's the regulatory 
authority which is autonomous 

506
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,520
independent was the, I want to 
say a lot of the telecoms 

507
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:18,320
carriers recently lodged a suit 
against the RA for price 

508
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:19,800
controls. 
I haven't followed that in 

509
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:21,120
detail. 
So I don't really know the 

510
00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:23,240
insurance and outs I. 
Think that's all good for the 

511
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,000
process, but yeah, it's one 
common. 

512
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,080
Digicel did that right. 
Yeah, but I mean. 

513
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,640
I remember the judge saying that
the telecoms companies have a 

514
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,640
good strong case, but I don't 
understand the. 

515
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,960
Things, there's probably 
negotiations going on behind the

516
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,480
scenes, mediations going on 
behind the scenes. 

517
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,320
Those are the examples I got as 
well. 

518
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,440
The others I got where sort of 
the AG versus the Information 

519
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,800
Commissioner, but I'm not sure 
that really counts corporate of 

520
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,240
Embleton I. 
Mean corporate. 

521
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:53,640
Government against the AG. 
That's not quite government 

522
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,080
against government, but they're 
both publicly funded bodies, 

523
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,600
right? 
This is they they specifically 

524
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,640
say citizen. 
Right. 

525
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,080
And I'm intrigued by that. 
And they continued increase 

526
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:08,880
potholes. 
I did a story once, they said it

527
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,160
wouldn't be impossible for 
people to sue government over 

528
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,280
potholes if they could prove the
damage was due to a pothole. 

529
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,720
Yeah. 
I don't know, but I was just 

530
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,920
intrigued to why that case And 
then like I said, we we talked 

531
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,200
about the pay. 
I think probably it's a good 

532
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:29,800
idea to get up a separate body. 
Yeah. 

533
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,640
And while you're talking about 
that epidemic of violence, I 

534
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,520
mean, we, we talk about that 
regularly. 

535
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:39,240
We, we had those really heinous 
murders last year. 

536
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,840
I fully expect us to see similar
murders this year and next year.

537
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,680
I don't see any, any end to it, 
in a sense. 

538
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,000
I know that sounds like I'm a 
bit numb or desensitized to it. 

539
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,280
I am. 
We've had all of these tragedies

540
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,320
and I don't really know how to 
solve. 

541
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,920
It well we've, we've had lots 
and lots and lots of panels, 

542
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,440
discussions groups, 
organisations, the gang group 

543
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,880
and the multi agency gang 
prevention team, the gang 

544
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,040
violence reduction team. 
We have other national violence 

545
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,240
reduction strategy goes on and 
on and on. 

546
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,600
But I mean, part of it is going 
to have to be, you know, part of

547
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,440
it is an austerity issue and 
that ties back into the budget. 

548
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:27,480
If we can increase investment 
into rehabilitation to reduce 

549
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,720
recidivism in in prisons, that's
great. 

550
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,800
If we can have greater 
restorative or restitutive 

551
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,040
justice instead of punitive 
justice, that's great. 

552
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:41,320
But we also need to invest in 
tackling economic inequalities. 

553
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,440
So that goes to the cost of 
living agenda. 

554
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,120
We need to invest in better 
education and other 

555
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:47,800
infrastructure. 
That's budget. 

556
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:49,440
We just talked about the 
education reform. 

557
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:55,080
It's, it's not a, there's no 
quick fix to any of this. 

558
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:59,720
It has to be multiple fronts if 
that makes sense. 

559
00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:02,800
Totally agree, everything comes 
into play in this. 

560
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,240
I totally agree. 
It's interesting the wolf is 

561
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:09,080
talking about extremely early 
intervention starting at the age

562
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,520
of five. 
Talking about life skills being 

563
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,200
taught in schools. 
I don't know if that happens 

564
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,800
now, but you know, really, 
really early intervention. 

565
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,560
I think that's probably a good 
idea if it doesn't happen now. 

566
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,600
He's also talking about 
introducing a full time 

567
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,040
psychiatric care in the in the 
prisons. 

568
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:31,640
Which in fact doesn't exist. 
I'm shocked that we don't have. 

569
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,360
What's that? 
I'm shocked that we don't have 

570
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,880
that at the moment. 
If he, I mean, I'm assuming the 

571
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,920
judge knows, therefore that's 
why he's put it, put it in 

572
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:43,640
there. 
And I'm shocked we don't have 

573
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,640
that. 
I mean, that ties him to the 

574
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:50,360
rehabilitation aspect, you know?
Exactly, exactly. 

575
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,080
But I, I like everybody knows 
now in the year again, I had a 

576
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:57,320
fascinating radio programme 
about how psychiatrist goes into

577
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,440
prisons and he has bottles of 
potions. 

578
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:06,160
They're all different smells and
he uses them and talks to the 

579
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,480
prisoners about where it takes 
them. 

580
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,640
And often it takes them back to 
their childhood or a happy place

581
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,640
when they get married or 
something like that. 

582
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,480
And it was such a good idea. 
It got them to reminisce about 

583
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:22,320
good times. 
You know, if we don't have that 

584
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,040
kind of thing. 
Not that specifically, but 

585
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,960
psychiatric care. 
I find that quite quite. 

586
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,560
Unbelievable. 
We've covered mental health 

587
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:33,240
issues. 
We did a whole series on 

588
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:38,720
adolescent mental health 
recently, so there's just so 

589
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,360
many things to that need worked 
on. 

590
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,160
It is, you know, as we said, the
budget's here. 

591
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,560
Maybe some of these things can 
be channelled with money by the 

592
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,840
budget. 
One thing I meant to look into 

593
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,200
in the judiciary report is I 
know last year they were talking

594
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,520
about even the infrastructure 
asked challenges that the courts

595
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,520
face, and I meant to look into 
this more recent report to see 

596
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:02,840
if any of that has been 
addressed. 

597
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:04,720
I didn't get a chance to see 
that. 

598
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:05,800
I don't know if you saw 
anything. 

599
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:07,040
I didn't say anything about 
that. 

600
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,800
I did see the age-old issue of 
facilities. 

601
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,840
Yeah, and that just leads to 
backlogs of cases as well. 

602
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,720
Well, actually one thing they 
did say the backlog had been 

603
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:17,600
addressed. 
There wasn't a backlog. 

604
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,840
There was one case going back to
2012 I think, right. 

605
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,840
And I think that was because 
they just found the person or 

606
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,920
something like that. 
But the, the, the backlog had 

607
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,280
been substantially tackled by 
the looks of things, but there 

608
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,320
was still complaints about space
and of course not in this 

609
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,760
report. 
There's been ongoing concerns 

610
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:39,960
over safety of judges and and 
prosecutors and defence as well.

611
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:41,960
That wasn't addressed in this 
report. 

612
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,040
But yeah, there are bigger 
issues going on the court, not 

613
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:49,760
just this, but yeah, but to call
it, you know, to call it an 

614
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,040
epidemic, judge, call it an 
epidemic. 

615
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,840
But you know what we we talk 
about an epidemic of violent 

616
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:58,440
crime. 
It's an epidemic of Rd. deaths 

617
00:33:58,440 --> 00:33:59,560
as well. 
Nobody. 

618
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,200
Well, I mean, since our our 
previous podcast when we talked 

619
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,560
about Rd. deaths has been 
another Rd. fatality. 15 years 

620
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:07,760
old girl. 
Yeah. 

621
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,840
How sad is that? 
You know, she'll try to like 

622
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:12,840
before her. 
Yeah, I. 

623
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:17,159
Can't imagine how the family and
it's I can't imagine. 

624
00:34:18,639 --> 00:34:21,040
No, I can't. 
I don't want to and I mean that,

625
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,400
I just don't want to because it 
would just be such a depressing 

626
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,159
thought. 
But again, you know, will we see

627
00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:27,880
that in the budget? 
Will we see the Road Safety 

628
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,199
Council's budget quadrupled? 
No. 

629
00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:32,760
Well, they were talking about 
introducing more speed cameras, 

630
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,159
right? 
So we'll have to see what's in 

631
00:34:35,159 --> 00:34:43,280
the budget for that too. 
Are the new cameras doing speed 

632
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,800
now? 
I don't know. 

633
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,440
I know they've talked about it. 
I am about, I'm kind of torn 

634
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,159
between it in terms of civil 
liberties. 

635
00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:55,880
But yeah, it's a. 
Tricky 1, isn't it? 

636
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,120
You've got to balance that life 
and death, and to me life and 

637
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:04,280
death Trump's civil liberties in
a way not to dismiss the civil 

638
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,840
liberties whatsoever. 
I would be very, very concerned 

639
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,760
if these cameras started using 
AI technology to try and 

640
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,680
identify people that would be 
serious concerning in terms of 

641
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,440
civil liberties. 
I don't know, maybe we're 

642
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:23,160
waffled enough. 
We're going to be back on 

643
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:27,600
tomorrow afternoon, Friday 
afternoon, give our thoughts on 

644
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,000
the budget. 
We'll do a podcast special and 

645
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:34,640
we'll try and highlight a few 
things to explain what they mean

646
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,320
to you or how they could affect 
you. 

647
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,640
Day tomorrow. 
It's going to be a busy day. 

648
00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:42,880
And will Debbie Burt leave a 
legacy? 

649
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:50,240
TuneIn tomorrow. 
All right, I will see you 

650
00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:52,360
tomorrow, Jonathan. 
Sounds good, man. 

651
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:54,000
Take care. 
See ya. 

652
00:35:54,240 --> 00:35:54,560
Bye.