Hello and welcome to an episode of The Full Point.
This is where we tend to sit down with someone to have a more
in depth, kind of get to know you conversation.
And today I'm delighted to be joined by Jason Hayward, the
Minister of Labour and Economy. But more importantly, I, at
least for me for the purposes of this episode, someone who's
declared himself as a candidate for the leadership of the
Progressive Labour Party and therefore, by extension, the
Premier of Bermuda. Minister, welcome.
Jeremy, thanks. Just one quick apology in
advance. It's I'm having to do this in my
kitchen and it's quite possible that a 20 year old, very bleary
eyed son, if he actually gets, might appear behind me
desperately searching for the coffee.
So apologies if that happens. Maybe I'll get him to ask you a
question. He's studying politics and
history of the Americas, so it might be interesting to see what
he has to say. Definitely.
Let's, let's get straight to the point.
Why? Why do you want to be leader of
the PLP and as I said, by extension, the premier of the
country? And so I done an assessment as
it pertains to the work that is required to move the country
forward, and I've determined that I'm capable and willing to
do that job. But that decision wasn't made
independently. What I would have done was speak
with a number of my colleagues, receive their feedback on the
qualities that they would like to see in a leader, as bad as
whether or not they believed I possessed those qualities.
And the feedback was overwhelmingly positive.
And so based off of me doing an assessment of my capabilities,
what I know is required to move the country forward, as bad as
the reassurance for my colleagues, I believe that that
gave me the boost to move forward with putting my name
forward as a candidate. So is this, is this ego, is it
ambition, or is it a genuine kind of desire to lead the
country of your birth? I think it is a willingness to
ensure that Bermuda has the best leadership and the best
representation moving forward and ensuring that we continue to
do back on behalf of the people. And so it's driven by a need to
ensure that we progress Bermuda on behalf of the people of
Bermuda. And what those people you
canvassed, what capabilities were they looking for in you?
And So what they appreciate most about me over the last few years
is my work ethic. They know that I'm also
authentic. They understand that I have a
ability to execute in meetings. They can clearly see that I'm a
strategic thinker, I'm a problem solver.
And so those are these type of skill sets in which they admire.
They want somebody that can get things done, and they know that
I'm capable of getting things done, but not just getting
things done in a really needy manner.
One that does a reasonable assessment of what is required
and then successfully executes. Are you nervous about actually
winning? No, not being leader.
There must be a certain little bit of doubt in the back of your
mind. It's a serious responsibility,
but I'm very much prepared to take one.
That responsibility, Nervousness, I wouldn't say that
I'm, I'm nervous. I would say that when I look at
my journey and my my trajectory, it has led me to this particular
point. So I'm very much prepared to
take one the opportunity that presents itself.
Was I dreaming or did you once say relatively recently, maybe
12 to 18 months ago, that you were not interested in the top
job? I think it was a point in a
period of time where I was determined in battle and not I
remain in politics in the long term.
It is a very stressful and toxic environment and you go through
peaks and valleys. But with the support of my
colleagues and me also knowing what I believe to be best in the
best interest of Bermuda moving forward with this particular
journey. Well, I had had two of my
colleagues at one point in time that I wasn't going to run for
another term. And I went home and I couldn't
sleep for three, three nights. And the challenge was that it
didn't sit well with my own personal constitution.
Notwithstanding, I know that it it is a very demanding job.
The cool part of me says that this is the job that you are
designed to do. Were you a bit taken aback when
Zane de Silva was quick out of the blocks on on this podcast
last year to declare that he was going for the leadership?
Not necessarily taken aback. It is a democratic process and
so anybody can put their name forward as leader.
What I was more pleased about is sitting down this day and having
a one-on-one conversation as to how we move forward collectively
and getting the support. And so that should a level of
maturity, but it also should a level of trust in my ability as
well. And I'm pleased that we've been
able to, we've been able to work together now rather than, you
know, create an environment of adversarial or adversity.
So it's interesting you, you obviously before you came out
and declared your leadership candidacy, you sat down with
Zain and, and you if you like, you work it out a deal.
You worked out that this would be the ticket going forward, you
and Zain running for deputy. So I don't believe that it's
necessarily correct. I don't believe that Zain has
declared that he is going to continue to run for deputy.
So it's it's no ticket. What happened is we had a
conversation rather than about his endorsement for my
leadership, but he also has some reasons that factored into his
decision. But you are running together.
He is. I thought he was running for
deputy. I thought, when was it?
I can't remember when he both announced it earlier this year.
Is that wrong? He's not running for deputy.
At this point, he hasn't made it clear that he will run for
deputy. Oh, OK, I thought he had.
OK, well, I'll go back and ask him, see if he'll come on the
show again. Let us know.
There's always, there always seems to be 1 shadow, I suppose
when when a leader, when a leader declares.
And I suppose in this instance is Curtis Dickinson.
He's tried once. Would you expect him, would you
welcome him to challenge Curtis? Obviously being a former finance
minister and still PLPMP. Anyone's free to challenge and
so I want to sit down and and with a sense of arrogance and
say I welcome everybody to challenge.
But certainly it's a democratic process and anybody can put
their name forward as leader of the party right now if it's a
unique circumstance because you don't have an incumbent
remaining. And so the Premier has indicated
that he will not run moving forward, and as a result, he's
opened it up for anybody in the party to put their name forward
and is actually welcomed. But what we want to do is ensure
that this process is not used to turn on the party and create
great levels of division, but that we can move forward in a
unified manner. And I respect the visions of the
delegates. And so if they determine that
I'm not the individual for the job, I'm still very much
committed to the party. And I expect anybody else who
puts their name forward, if not if they're not successful, to be
committed to the advancement of the aims and objectives of the
party. Do you think you you talked
earlier about the stresses involved of being a politician
or minister and he mentioned that you were not going to seek
another term If you are not successful, is that the end of
your political career? Definitely not.
I'm Stanley, got a lot of energy left in me and I've already
made-up my mind that I'll continue to serve the people of
Bermuda in whatever capacity that I'm required to.
Where, where are you on the political spectrum?
I mean, I'm going to say this and obviously you'll correct me
as a Union Leader, generous, generally seen as being quite
left wing, were you that are you now very left wing, are you left
of centre or are you going to be more of a political pragmatist?
No, I think that my core is sent to laugh.
I wouldn't consider myself a pure leftist, but I do support
the principles of social democracy.
I do support social justice. I do support freedom.
I do support collectivism. I recognise that we need a
strong economy and the market has to function effectively in
order for us to provide the social protection status
required for the development of the rest of society.
Are you prepared to be a bit of a pragmatist there?
Because I'd imagine as the leader of the country you have
to be. Sometimes you put aside your
political beliefs. I think that you have to be
flexible when you do it. The world is evolving.
The you can't remain in a static position.
You have to ensure that you have the ability to assess a
situation and move forward with what is in the best interest
based off of that period of time and based off the knowledge that
you do actually have. And I think that is a strong
part of my ability. You will see that I started out
as the Minister of Labour but then evolved into the Minister
of Economy and Labour. And having that portfolio, you
understand that you want to have strong levels of economic growth
and business development, but you also want to have an
inclusive economy where the people of Bermuda actually
benefit from that. And there are trade-offs that
you have to make as a pertains to ensuring that you progress
and advance business interests while still serving the people
of Bermuda. Those those trade-offs are quite
interesting, aren't they? I mean, being a former union
man, the leader of the BPSU, if you come up against the unions,
are you going to stand up to them?
I don't think if that's a trade off that's needed.
I think that you create an environment that doesn't exist.
What we want to do is progress harmonious industrial relations.
I'm not directly involved with employee matters that will have
direct interventions with the union.
I actually involve the union in tripartite conversations on a
ongoing basis. Rather it be the labor Advisory
Council, rather it be the workforce Development Board,
rather they sit on the immigration board.
And so I value the contributions of the labor movement and as a
result I involve them in the decision making process.
There will be items that we may disagree on, but it's how we
solve those disagreements. We've had, I guess, 1
disagreement in my entire 6th year as a, as a minister, but
we've had our ability to work together thereafter.
And so you, you, you have to be in a position where you get to
understand and appreciate the differences of opinion which
exist in society and understand what is the basis of that
decision. In fact, that into the funded
decision as pertains to how we move.
Forward will you have red lines though the line in the sand if
you're premier? I don't know what issues force
you to create a line in the sand.
And so you have barometer checks.
So it's not just me as premier. You have a party caucus, you
have a central committee, you have cabinet, all which involve
democratic processes. And if you make a decision and
they go through those democratic processes, then most times
you'll come to the assessment that that decision is a sound
decision. So it'll be a lot of consensus
that you'll take the consensus of the party and the caucus.
I think that's what takes place now for the most part.
David Burke actually has said that a lot when I've interviewed
him before. Yeah.
And you'll continue that kind of style, will you?
Yeah, most definitely. I believe in collectivism, I
believe in inclusive leadership and so I'm not sitting up and
and trying to be the smartest man in the room at all times.
You have to utilise the skill sets and the value of the
individuals that are around you. I agree.
Sometimes leadership is involving people around you,
isn't it? Yeah, most definitely.
So, so given that is, can we expect, could we expect anything
to be meaningfully different about a Jason Heywood
premiership from the current administration?
And I'm not asking you to criticize a current
administration, you won't do that.
But anything you might like to modify?
Most definitely from my standpoint, I have a greater
need to develop social and economic policy that benefit the
people of Bermuda. And so we would have definitely
have a social development strategy.
So much issues that we're facing in society is as a result of
kind of social issues that are permeated rather it be in
healthcare rather it be in education rather it be
associated with all of them. We want to ensure that we have
education system that is high quality and that is benefiting
our youth. We want to ensure that we have
accessible and affordable healthcare and accessible and
affordable housing, but then we also want to ensure that we
empower persons so that they can take advantage of the
opportunities that exist in our society as well and where there
are gaps, to ensure that we have those necessary social
interventions, and I think that is fundamentally important.
I mean, with respect, those are the kind of mantras that we've
been hearing for quite a long time now from the PLP and the
PLP government and education in particular doesn't really seem
to get any better. Anyway, that's that's just a
comment. Yeah, but you you should access.
You should expect that any leader of the party has those
core values. True.
Yes, Fairpoint, Fairpoint, the, the, one of the drawbacks of
having the Internet and things like that is your background.
The things you've said in the past never really go away.
And there are a couple of things I want to ask.
And this is going back actually 10 years now when you were in
the BPSU leader and it was you wrote a column.
I just want to quote a little bit from it through my own
personal lens. Party politics in Bermuda has
primarily been centred on race, with the majority of residents
voting seemingly along racial lines rather than a party's
political ideology. As a result, we have people who
vote PLP or Oba, even though the party's political ideology is
fundamentally different from theirs.
For example, there are whites in Bermuda who support socialist
policies about Oba, and despite being capitalist, there are
blacks who vote PLP. Has that changed or how would
you change it? How would you be more inclusive?
So it hasn't changed as it pertains to the trends of
voting. I believe that the PLP is viewed
as a black party and Oba is viewed as the party for anybody
else that does not support the Progressive Labour Party.
But I would say that in order for us to progress as a society,
we need to ensure that the policy positions that we put
forward benefit all. And I think that's what we've
been clear on. The party is an inclusive party
and what you want to see, you want to see greater diversity in
ideas and do it. That's how we actually progress
society. And so if you looked at the
outreach that I've done from the billions of the Minister of
Economy and Labour, I've consulted with all of Bermuda, I
engage with all of Bermuda. Nobody's excluded from policy
development, nobody is excluded from providing feedback and
their ideas. And I actually value their, the
entire Bermuda's opinions because that's how we get to
more grounded policies, policies that serve the best interests of
the country. Can you under your premiership,
will you see more white people? Can you encourage more white
people to vote for the PLP? I think that in order for us to
continually win elections, we have to appeal to presidents
beyond what's considered to be our traditional base.
And what you will find is that white presidents do vote for the
Progressive Labour Party in Bermuda.
Do we want to ensure that we increase the participation in
elections? Yes.
Do we want to ensure that we build confidence outside of the
black community in Bermuda? Of course we do.
And so we must have policies in place that serve all of Bermuda.
Again, going back to my comment, it's easy to search what people
have said in the past and you once gave a speech in the House
where you said we need not ask anybody's assistance.
We have the capacity to deliver on behalf of our people and that
is why we are here. That at the time was widely
interpreted to say we don't need anybody's help, we don't need
the white person's help, we don't need the OB as help.
We're here and we can do it. And I think he was slightly
rebuked by the Premier at the time.
Do you regret saying that now? Absolutely not.
Tell me why. That was in the context of me
knocking on the door and somebody putting their setting
their doorbell. And that's when I, Diane said
that I'm not interested in someone's vote who want to put
the dog out on me. And then it it actually.
That's why you were canvassing. Yeah, said continues.
Where because you are representative, persons feel as
though you have to do exactly what they say.
And you know what? As a leader, you are elected to
lead as well. And so you formulate your
policies based off of the data that you have, the inputs that
you actually have. You have a son team and you can
utilize their team. It's always this call for
bipartisan contributions to be made.
But when you reach out to the other side and ask for their
assistance, it's wanton. It's few and far in between.
And so we have to say we'll prepare to do, to learn, we're
prepared to execute on our agenda because we know this in
the best interests of the people of Bermuda.
Often times we send out these olive branches even after the
worst events, even after people say the most vile beings, we
turn back around, we offer olive branches.
And when you heard people talk, they always talk about how we
can collectively work together. But in practice that doesn't
take place. And so why stress ourselves?
We've tried to involve people in a in a process who never have
your best interests at heart. Yeah, it's very true.
A lot of it is politicking or politicking, isn't it?
And. And you see that and it, it
works both ways as well. Of course, when somebody else is
in power, they'll do the same thing.
But yeah, I hear what you're saying.
The the other thing, of course, and I the these things
potentially can live with you and create impressions of you
that might not be fair or true. But how does the Union Thug
T-shirt? How's that going to play out?
I know it was irony, I get it, but there's so many people won't
see that. You are going back a decade to a
T-shirt. Yeah, but these things will come
back. These are kind of things that
will be used against you. You know the Oba will see you in
the house and they'll bring these things up.
Those things have been used against me my entire in Korea
and notwithstanding that, I've demonstrated my ability to
execute. And so I've been the Minister of
the Economy and Labour for six years now.
And if you look at my accomplishments, there's
something I'm very proud of. It's my track racket, my ability
to execute. And every year the Ministry of
Economy and Labour has put out under your documents speaking
about all the accomplishments that we're able to achieve on
behalf of the people of Bermuda. And so if one wants to hop on AT
shirt that I wore that I got at a Canadian training school
because I didn't get the teaching T-shirt made.
It was given to me when I went to a Canadian trade union summer
school. And the women in the summer
school had on a pink union dog T-shirt and the man in the
summer school had on a black union dog T-shirt.
And we all wore our union dog T-shirts to class.
And so I am unapologetic about telling people that I represent
the union and if I am going to be a dog, I'm going to be a dog
on behalf of the people of Bermuda and ensuring that I
progress the rights of the people of Bermuda.
And so it's not because I was fighting for any nefarious
'cause I was fighting to advance the rights of people.
And I'll continue to fight to advance the rights of people in
my role as the Minister of Economy and Labour and as well
as if I move forward to become the leader of the progressive
Lip boy. I mean, I saw it as being
incredibly ironic, that T-shirt, but I, I don't know if any, any,
how many other people saw that. Easy question.
So you become leader of the PLP in October.
You take on the role as premier. Your first 12 months of premier,
what kind of measurable targets would you publish?
What kind of metrics, if you like, would you look to succeed
at? And so when you take over the
leader of political party, the first thing you want to do is
ensure that you have good governance structures in place
and those are the things that lead to sustainable
organization. And then you do a full
assessment of what are the aims, the objectives and the mission
and ensuring that we have a strategic plan that allows us to
achieve those things. But when we look from a country
standpoint, we do have a election manifesto that we ran
on and promised the people a permuted that we were going to
execute on. And part of the responsibility
will be ensuring that we close out all of those items that we
saw to advance in the last election.
And where there are gaps, ensure that we fill those gaps.
But then also talk about how we're going to be
transformational. I don't expect to be a status
quo leader. I will be focused on change.
I will be focused on ensuring that we have a new economy
strategy, as the current economic development strategy
will expire in 202027. We want to ensure that we have a
new economy strategy that would lead us forward for the next
five years or so. We want to ensure that we battle
support small and medium sized enterprises in Bermuda.
We want to ensure that we address some of the challenges
that we are having with our education system.
We want to advance healthcare reform in a meaningful way and
we need to ensure that we make meaningful progress on our
housing situation. Some very critical.
Issues, some extremely. Critical issues.
All and imagine top priorities for you and and the government.
David Bird as the premier primarily as has mentioned that
he intends to stay on as an MP. Would you be tempted to offer
him a seat in the Cabinet? Maybe as finance minister?
And that's certainly. Premature, but he has made every
intention to sit on the backbench and so that's what he
has expressed that he would like to sit on the backbench like.
He's worked extremely hard over the last nine years leading the
country. He's done an excellent job.
He's been an excellent steward of the country's finances.
He's put us in excellent fiscal position.
We now have the fiscal capacity to do a number of things that we
couldn't do in the past when we were operating a prayers of
austerity. And so he's done a commandable
job and if he's determined that he wants to.
Conclude his contribution. In the cabinet and sit in the
backbench then that is welcomed. You don't mind?
Having a former premier sitting over your shoulder, standing up
with the House of Assembly and maybe critiquing your work, No.
I don't mind having his. Expertise in the room at all?
Post October, if you're successful and you take up the
reins as the leader and premier, will you be tempted to call an
election fairly soon afterwards? Generally speaking, that is what
happens, certainly in the UK where we have a similar system.
Obviously the new Premier Prime Minister wants to have their own
mandate. Do you foresee calling an early
election because he will still have three years come October?
Weren't you 2 1/2 years? Yeah, and.
So you do an assessment and call an election man, it's the best
time to actually call one. I don't think that the
leadership change prompts election call.
And so we'll do an assessment as to where we currently sit, how
we've executed on the items that we've had in our manifesto and
then determined that would be the appropriate time to call an
election. OK, I.
Think that's all my questions on leadership.
I probably missed a lot. There are a couple of other
things Minister Wiley here that I would love to talk to you
about. The first one is Iran and the
situation in the Persian Gulf. Obviously, the whole world
pretty much is going through a pretty huge economic shock.
The consequences are seeing now, but they could last for quite a
lot longer. They're talking about repairs to
gas pipelines, liquid natural gas pipelines, etcetera, taking
years to fix until all this can start flowing again.
I as Minister of Economy, are you seeing it having an impact?
If not, do you expect it to have an impact?
And if so, and watch which way? Most definitely.
It will have an impact. Geopolitics impacts the world
and Bermuda is not immune from the shocks that will take place
in the rest of the world, even when we start to talk about
relationships. But there will be a number of
impacts. There will be an economic impact
because it's driving up the cost of fuel.
And so from air transport standpoint it would have an
impact from the cost of fuel for our cars.
From shipping point standpoint it would have an impact.
And so we should expect Bermuda's inflation rate to
actually progress. There are a number of caps that
we can put in place from a tax perspective to try to buffer as
fast as we possibly can. But we're not going to be able
to buffer airline tickets. We're not going to be able to
buffer the electricity cost at Bell Group because we've already
reduced the taxes to as low as we can actually reduce the
taxes. We can't buffer shipping cost.
And so the cost of goods inputted into Bermuda will
increase and then products that are by product of oil would
actually increase as well as they will do.
Pharmaceuticals fertilize definitely and so.
Across the board, we expect to see price increases and Bermuda
already having one of the higher cost of livings it is actually
concerned. But I would go ahead to stay
from a business standpoint in a world of uncertainty, Bermuda
can actually be a beacon of stability.
And so we can attract companies to come and operate in our
business ecosystem as a result of the stable environment that
we do here. On the flip side though.
We've seen this mentioned by quite a few insurers as CEOs is
the cost of living and you what everything you said is going to
put up the cost of living. There's very little, it sounds
like from what you're saying that the government can actually
do, and this could become a real problem.
So the. Cost of living has been a
challenge and that's why the Premier appointed the minister
responsible for the cost of living and looking at the cost
of living in a number of areas. We know it was a challenge
because when we done the immigration report and Acts
individuals why they were emigrating from Bermuda, they
indicated that the main drivers were the cost of living in
Bermuda. It's something that we need to
ensure that we get a handle on. The biggest input into the cost
of living obviously is the cost of housing.
And so if we are to expand the volume of public housing in
Bermuda, hopefully that creates some pressure in the market
where it can begin to draw down the prices of rent in Bermuda.
When we look at food, then we look at utilities, we look at
how we can provide targeted relief.
The government has done a good job as to cut in taxes on an
annual basis on the every citizen, everyday, everyday
citizen. And so we can increase the
partisan power that the citizens actually have to spend in
Bermuda. But it will be a challenge, it
will be a ongoing challenge and it'll be something that we have
to collectively grapple with. But I do think from a business
standpoint, business ecosystem and the benefits of our business
ecosystem all ranks the cost of doing business in Bermuda.
And that's why we see Bermuda continuingly attracting
businesses year after year. I, I spent three months in the
UK. I only been back a couple of
weeks and obviously I tuned it a lot to what was happening in
politics there. And Keir Starmer, the British
Prime Minister and the Chancellor Exchequer, they were
continually kind of convening meetings with big business
leaders, with the banks, etcetera, to see how they could
ameliorate some of the effects of the Iran war.
Is that something you've done or something you will be doing here
as well? Most definitely.
Looking at where the PM points actually exist and then having
direct conversations as to how we can assist businesses.
And I think we already started that before we can reduce some
of the bureaucracy and reduce rare tape.
But part of ensuring that we have a song that's stable and
sustainable business ecosystem is reducing this cause
impediments within the business community.
The only way in which we're going to do that is work
collectively with industry to achieve those goals.
So what kind of meetings? Have you had so far or which
ones are you planning? I meet with CEOs.
On a ongoing basis, for example, the Economic Development
Department has been charged with meeting with the retail industry
to determine how we can battle support the retail industry.
We meet with the Chamber of Commerce on a regular basis.
We meet with what they consider to be the alphabet soup filter
aber abic on a ongoing basis. I do know that the Ministry Stir
of Housing meets with the construction industry as it
pertains to the imports associated with construction
course. And you see us prior to the
budget period meeting with industry to determine how we can
actually reduce taxes. And that's partly why the
employer's portion of payroll tax has been reduced across the
board to battle support employers in Bermuda.
The the. War in Iran is yet another
reminder of the instability in the world at the moment.
Obviously Ukraine, COVID, President Trump lot would argue
he's unstable. I'm not asking you to comment on
that Minister, I promise. Were we right to to push back
moves for renewables as was recently announced Renewable
energy sources, I think. That part of the economic
development strategy calls for progression in our blue and
green economy, which includes renewables.
But we have to be realistic about our targets as well.
And I think that is what it's actually been done, general
assessments of what is a realistic target to actually
achieve. But if the war has taught us one
thing, it is that we need to do 2 things.
Ensure that we do have a diversified economy and then
ensure that we have greater levels of economic
relationships. So for example, 70% of all our
goods import come from United States.
But if that relationship ever becomes.
Stressed I would. Say, you know, in a very polite
way, and it will create challenges for Bermuda.
And so part of my responsibility now is to work with the National
Economic Cooperation Committee. And what that committee seeks to
do is engage in Economic Cooperation with different
territories and countries throughout the world so that we
can build greater levels of economic capacity as well as
forge more meaningful partnerships when the world's
get, I mean you. Talk about.
Diversifying the economy and that's been the Holy Grail ever
since. I've been in Bermuda 20 or 30
years now. But we seem to have gone the
other way a little bit in the sense that IB as a catch all
phrase is the biggest contributor now to GDP, isn't
it? And payroll tax.
So. Certainly international business
is the biggest contributor to our economy.
Debt sector is roughly around 29% of all economic activity in
Bermuda. But what we do see is
diversification within international business.
So we're international business started with like Cactus and
then traditional PNC and all C diversification as to the lines
of business and which international business actually
right as well as expansion of long term insurers.
We want to ensure that we build our capacity back and fund
administration. You know that we have been
working on fintech as well and expanding that level of business
activity. But if you look at the economic
development strategy, if we will put considerate efforts forward
to ensure that we diversify other areas of our economy.
And so we will be running on national entrepreneurship
strategy and that will. Provide us with clarity as.
To how we better support the development of small and medium
sized enterprises within Bermuda.
We will be moving forward with legislation to greater promote
cooperatives as well because we want to see more cooperatives
formed in Bermuda as an alternative to the current
business models that exist within our community.
We will be moving forward with our digital economy strategy,
ensuring that the we have greater use of technology in our
economy, moving some of the technology from the fringes of
our society to more mainstream uses.
And that will speak to how we better enable and support the
private sector, how we transform government services so there are
more digitized and digital offerings of public services,
ensuring that we have the infrastructure for our society
in the future and ensuring that we continue to develop and
promote our human capabilities. For a number of years now,
Bermuda's really been courting the Middle East.
You've had a, you've got a Middle East consultant, you've
been over there several times, a Premier, other other ministers
has had. But we've seen recently that
Saudi Arabia in particular has really been cutting back on
overseas investments. The Liv Golf tournament for
instance, they're not doing that.
Newcastle United, this massive glass building that they wanted
to build. Now it doesn't look like it's
going to be funding. How do you think the and?
The Iran war obviously is going to make it more difficult
because they're going to have to invest in their own economy
because of the damage being done.
How? Is the Iran war?
Affected the Bermuda kind of Middle East courting if you like
is it is it off now is it on off relationship and so if you look.
At the nation of nature of the relationship, it is capacity
building nature at this point in time.
And so we are using that relationship and leveraging that
partnership to build greater capacity for the delivery of
government services as well as capacity in our economy.
They have evolved digitally and we are on that particular
journey. And so there is expertise that
can be sure we have something as pertains to our regulation of
financial services and they are seeking to build capacity as it
pertains to the regulation of their financial services.
And so they are a economy that has had the ability to be
extremely ambitious and close this execution and ambition
gaps. And I think we can learn from
the work that they've actually done as it pertains to ensuring
that we progress our society in a meaningful way.
And from a digital standpoint, there is a lot of capacity and
know how and institutional knowledge that they have that
they can help permuter with developing how we move forward
as well as also creating relationships with other
countries within the GCC. And that will be also important
as it pertains to us moving forward with greater levels of
Economic Cooperation. There is this drive for Economic
Cooperation, of course, the entire what they consider to be
global S, which is the Middle East, Africa and South America
and ensuring that we continually work together to.
Diversify how? We actually do business and
where we actually get our investments from.
It kind of leads. Me on quite nicely to the next
area I wanted to discuss and I'm sure you're not surprised by
this is CARICOM are you a supporter personally of full
membership certainly that's. The story of us and So what I
would say, yes, we are have been a member of the Caribbean family
for years. We've never been detached from
the Caribbean. I believe what we have to have a
meaningful conversation about and around is what is the
benefits of moving from associate membership to full
membership and what are the risks associated with that.
So as I heard people as well as risk and I'm not sure if there's
risks are actually realistic or there's first, just because
there is a lack of knowledge. And where there is a lack of
knowledge, I think is believe it's the government's
responsibility to assist us with closing those knowledge gaps.
And so ask some point in questions as it pertains to what
does this mean for our economy? What does this mean from
immigration standpoint? What does this mean in terms of
of relationships with territories and trade
relationships and the expansion of trade relationships and how
we can build capacity from that relationship?
I think that's important to share with the people of Bermuda
the benefits associated with full manipulation.
Jonathan Starling and I on this podcast discussed the Green
Paper when it came out. Jonathan was quite enthusiastic
about it. I looked at it and I couldn't
see specifically how it would benefit Bermuda.
I, I didn't see examples, I didn't see any stats or anything
like that. That said, This is why it
benefits Bermuda. You said that's a bit of a gap.
Is that a gap that needs closing?
Do you think? Do you, were you a supporter of
the Green paper? Do you think it went far enough?
I think any gaps that. Exist in terms of questions that
people ask. It needs to be closed.
I think some people are looking for.
Kind of data points. That will convince them that
this is in our vast interests and other persons are saying
that there is no harm to greater economic partnerships, there is
no greater harm to greater bilateral relations.
We live in a world where countries all the time are
engaged in these relationships and then being part of economic
communities and CARICOM is a relationship that we've been in
for a number of years. And I believe that when we
assess whether or not it brings value, the answer will be yes.
I don't think that there are points made to say that the
relationship with CARICOM will take away or diminish anything
that Bermuda is trying to progress or it's not in our best
interest. What I would say is when Trump
made a determination that he was going to tax all Chinese ships
and that was going to have a very negative impact on trade to
Bermuda and the affordability of goods and trend Bermuda.
I know that the Caribbean community came together to lobby
the US government and that decision was ultimately first.
I know that when they are talking about matters on a
global stage, Bermuda sits as a subsidiary to the United
Kingdom. But if you can have Caribbean
countries that sit independently lobbying on your behalf who can
all who also have strong relationships with South
American countries and countries of the African Union, then you
go into a meeting with advocacy with greater levels of support.
And so there is these factors and considerations that may have
not been placed in the report, but me working in this
particular space and understanding it, I do know and
appreciate oh meaningful it is to have strong relationships
with other countries you're you're talking to a.
Brit who was totally opposed to Brexit because I can see the
advantages of being part of a, of a, of a bigger economy and
you know, it's cost 3 or 4% of the UKSGDPI can see that.
But those are very clear benefits.
Can you give me one or two very clear benefits of joining
CARICOM when you mentioned a couple of others are they're
kind of not, they're not so tangible, tangible benefits of
joining CARICOM and so. When we, when we look at it, the
expansion of services of Bermuda farms into the Caribbean region
in a, in a meaningful way throughout the entire Caribbean,
that's a, that's certainly a benefit.
Then we start to look at free movement of capital and then we
start to look at free movement of, of services and the free
movement of goods. The other one not we can get
proper trade agreements with CARICOM Contras that actually
produce goods to reduce some of the cost of living in Bermuda.
That's extremely important if we are able to secure capital at a
more affordable rate. For if we have large industrial
projects, that is of benefit to Bermuda as well.
It provides us with greater levels of options when we are
seeking institutional financing for large infrastructure
projects, whether it be us building a new bridge or us
redeveloping times B. So if.
Financial services available to members of CARICOM through
international organisations and we're able to take advantage of
that. That is a plus and a benefit to
Bermuda. If we're able to have direct
trade with Caribbean countries such as Guyana for food
products, that's a positive as well.
And so when we look at it, we can look at our entire economy
and say where do we have gaps? We currently have more jobs in
permuted than naval body permutants.
Is there a gap as it pertains to the skilled labour that required
to power our society? If the answer is yes, can we
work with our Caribbean counterparts to fill some of our
labour needs and and the gaps that we have?
So the answer is, is yes to that as well.
So there are definitely benefits, but it's about an
evolution of a relationship. We started out over 2 decades
ago as associate members. Do we remain associate members
forever or do we make the progressive step to evolve the
relationship that we've already been in for a period of time?
I think it's just natural as a natural step in Bermuda's
evolution. There's been calls for a
referendum. Is it OK the MPs can decide this
in the House of Assembly or should there be a referendum in
your opinion? I think I think it's it's.
A decision that certainly Parliament has the ability to
decide upon. When we joined up as associate
members some years ago, there was a conversation here and then
we as a party made it clear that we wanted to move forward with
greater Caribbean relationships. I think when we look at all the
other Caribbean organizations that we're a part, a part of, it
is not done through referendum. All the technical associations,
all the trade associations, we have strong relationships with
the Caribbean community already. I think a referendum at the
time, it would have been a decision whether or not we
become associate members, But if we're talking about just
progressing the membership of an organization that you're already
associated with, I'm not sure if a referendum is actually
required. You've been very generous with
your time. There is so much more I could
talk to you about. We really haven't touched on.
Maybe we do another interview at another time.
But my last question, you've got a games day coming.
Tell me about it. Most definitely answer.
We've had a campaign committee and the team said, you know
what, it would be nice if we just got together in a social
environment and persons actually saw the lighter side of you.
And then you'll be able to engage and interact with people
one-on-one and answer whatever questions they may have.
And so they said we should have a games night.
And so they kind of evolved into an entire games day.
And so we've all seen the numbers and the entire community
to come and just have a day full of fun.
Tommy, Tommy just. Remind our our our audience when
and where it is so the games they will take.
Place on Sunday and that will be from 3:00 to 8:00 at Cedar
Bridge Academy and it's free. To enter, you just turn up.
Yeah, just turn up. And and enjoy the day it would
be, I might come down, there will be games being played,
camaraderie. And so it's just a welcoming
environment where person can come, they can ask questions
about the future of Bermuda, they can ask questions about my
decision making as pertains to moving forward with being the
leader of the Progressive Labour Party, get a better
understanding of where I stand on a number of issues and also
meet members of the team. Because again, this is not just
about one man as of what else working collectively together.
And you will see that there is a strong team within the
Progressive Labour Party that supports the notion of Jason
Abboud being the next leader. I might pop down on Sunday.
Afternoon myself, you're certainly welcome to do.
So thank you for sparing. So much time, it's greatly
appreciated. Maybe at the end of October you
can give me another interview as leader of the PLP and Premier.
I'll be delighted to. Do so.
All right. Thanks very much.
Have a good day.