Welcome to the News Navigators with me, Jeremy Deacon.
And me, Jonathan Starling. Don't forget you can find us on
Spotify, Apple and Amazon. And of course, you can follow us
on LinkedIn, Facebook and Blue Sky.
If you want to send us questions, e-mail us at the News
and navs@gmail.com. Today is the eve of the 2025
election and it's my great pleasure to welcome the Premier
and PRP Leader, David Burt. David, thank you for joining us.
Good evening to you, Mr. Zeke, and good evening to you, Mr.
Sarlin. Can I, can I just say something
first? Let's get rid of the
formalities. I'm Jeremy, and that's Jonathan.
Oh well, I can't get rid of the formalities on this one.
One of the lessons I was learning when I came to the shop
is that that's the way it is. But go ahead, what you got?
Are you tired? You must be exhausted.
I am. That's OK.
That's what. Are you doing?
What are you doing tonight? You got anything else tonight?
You're going to put your feet up.
And I do have another interview tonight.
I have some constituents that I still need to visit and then
hopefully try to get some rest because I didn't get very much
last night. But I'm surprised you've been
very busy. Campaigns are busy.
But it's not just campaigns, it's family.
Yeah. And other responsibilities.
I was worship leader at Saint Paul's AME, Saint Paul AME Men's
Day yesterday. So was that in addition to other
family commitments? And, you know, my children have
activities and, you know, Valentine's Day and all the
rest. So it's not just all
campaigning. So campaigning has to fit around
the family stuff. And I also still am the premier
and Minister of Finance, so there's that stuff as.
And presumably you're still got a budget to prepare if you'd get
a government. That would be for the next
government should make no assumptions as the Minister of
Finance who are may not be on. Well, it on Wednesday after,
yeah, yeah, indeed. It's something that we've
touched on on the podcast before and I want to touch on it with
you because if it's only really fair, but we talked about the
possibility of you being a bit of a lame duck premier in that
you've made it very plain that you'll step down as PLP leader
and therefore premier. I think it's at the annual
delegates conference in October next year.
October 2020, Sixth correct. Which only gives you around 18
months to be the premier. So my question that I posed in
the podcast is which premier are we voting for?
Are we voting for you or the people have been made of voting
for you? And a lot of it is about voting
for the leader, the personality, or we're voting for somebody
else. It's in a strange position,
Aren't you? I I no.
I don't think so. And I think that's a misguided
interpretation of the way that the Progressive Labour Party
approaches its style of governance.
We have a platform that has been put together by our membership
and that is not something that comes from the leader, the
cabinet or the candidates. That's something that comes from
the members of our party, that is given to our members, that is
carried out and executed, that is put before the country wide
and detailed and any government will carry it out or sorry, not
any government, but any leader of the Progressive Leader Party
is bound to carry out the platform which is voted by the
Central Committee. I mean, so that's what's
carrying. Forward, I kind of thought knew
that you would say that and you it's from the bottom up.
But nowadays being a politician, being the leader of the party,
being the premier is very much about that person.
You see it all over the all over the world.
Well, I think that there's some leaders who they want a lot of.
Them are going to vote for you because of your personality,
your record. That's that's what you may say.
I take a different view, but we can agree to disagree.
And so on that particular measure, we have 36 candidates,
there's 36 separate elections which are happening throughout
the country. Candidates are inside of about
living rooms, on doorsteps, inside of communities, sharing
the message, sharing what it is that we've done, sharing what
our plans are going forward. So I take a different.
View. You don't think it makes any
difference on the doorstep? You don't think that's?
Going to I think that I think that those things are a factor,
but I don't necessarily think that when you do the research
etcetera, I don't think that's the biggest factor.
People are talking about the party, people are talking about
the platforms and other people are talking about the persons
and individual constituencies. They're not necessarily so much
worried about it's on who's the leader of the party.
Fair enough. One thing that struck me
actually, because of course we're starting to see, we will
start to see the effects of the Corporate Incomes Act.
So I think you mentioned. First payments will come in
August of 2020. Five, August of 2025, yes, OK.
Five months from now. So you will have as a government
10s or hundreds of millions of dollars to spend.
In theory, this could be the utopia of the Atlantic.
Doesn't that tempt you to stay on because half all that money
at your disposal you could leave quite the legacy?
So here's the thing, first of all, I think that it's important
to recognize that we have laid out a very detailed and long
term plan which was covered in our pre budget report over the
responsible use of corporate income tax revenue.
We want to start there. The second thing is in regards
to my time, it's a joke that I have.
I think I even joked about it at the rally this Saturday where I
says, you know, seniors say and I tell my wife, you know, I've
been spending the last seven years, you know, basically
scratching what we don't itch because looking for funds to
try, you know, and claw through a pandemic, try to make sure we
can provide relief, make sure that we deal with matters
related to infrastructure and others.
And then, you know, on my way out, whoever may suck see me
will not have those worries. But just so we're clear, there
is no changing my. Mind no, no.
No, no, this is not about me. This is about my family.
I think that people do not understand the intense stress
that a job like this puts on your family.
My son was 16 months the day that I was sworn in his
premiere. My children cries when I go
traveling and different things like that.
So no, this is not about I'm. I am fully committed to doing
this job and then but I'm not stepping away from politics.
I'm going to continue to represent my constituents and
I'm looking forward to becoming an MP.
And as I've said to other persons, I do not seek a job,
you know, assuming we're in the election, I do not seek a job in
a future PLP cabinet. But just as I would expect any
Progressive Labour Party MP to give due consideration if I was
to ask them to serve in cabinet, I will do the same if the leader
who comes after me and wants me to serve.
So you're going to be a backbench MP but you're going to
stay quiet when the new premier or the finance minister says
something you don't agree with? I see where you're going.
I mean, from from this perspective, I think that
there's many examples have been followed, but I I actually
looking forward to being an MP. You have to remember I've always
been on the front bench. Yeah, since I've been inside in
the Senate. I was junior Minister of Finance
when I was elected to the House of Assembly.
I was shadow Minister of Finance, shadow Minister of
Finance, of course is you have to prepare budget reply, but
unlike a budget statement, you don't have a massive team to
write and put those things together.
And then of course in government is serving as Premier Minister
of Finance, the premier and then back to premier Minister of
Finance. So I'm looking forward to
reconnecting with my constituents and enjoying
constituency work because it's something that I miss.
So the the deputy leader, he's not running in this election,
Minister Alter Rabin. So obviously the PLP is going to
be minus the deputy leader position as of tomorrow,
midnight. So I'm assuming there's going to
be a special delegates conference to elect a new
leader? Absolutely.
Our Constitution does states that in the event of an absence
of the position of leader of the party or deputy leader of the
party there or vacancy, not an absence of course, but a vacancy
election is held within 30 days, right.
And so the party will proceed upon that process and meeting
with the party leadership on Wednesday, which is normal after
a general election to plan what our next.
Steps may or may not be OK and my understanding is the deputy
leader has to be an MP so we'll know absolutely who is in the
running after tomorrow. Yep, our constitution does
require deputy Leader to be a member of the House of Assembly.
Right. Thank you.
Ron looking I mean, it's it's fun times.
I mean, it's interesting times, but that's the thing.
I mean, service takes a lot out of you and it's people, you
know, sometimes we forget, like even I speaking to my
constituents a few days ago, we even forget some of the things
that we've done because there's been so many things that have
been, you know, accomplished and done over the years.
But you know, whether it's the work that Colonel has put in
over the many years, the work that Walters put in, you know,
they deserve their retirement and I wish them well in the
future. So I'd like to segue onto some
platform questions, if that's OK, we have a good.
Discussion about this actually. You know I enjoy talking about
my platform. We enjoy talking about your
platform. But you want to know what's
important, you know how the PLP's platform come is made,
right? Yeah, yes, we don't do.
There are things inside of this platform, just like the last
platform, that are not things that I would naturally say that
this is what we want. Well, that's what we were going
to come on to go right on ahead the station, Jonathan.
In in the PLP platform, it talks about engaging in a public
consultation of additional options for electoral reform,
including a reduction in parliamentary seats and campaign
financing rules and transparency Now campaign financing that was
in, I believe, at least the 2017 election that was not in 20.
2020 to 2017. What work has been done on that?
To be honest, not very much work has been done on that and it's
not for a lack of wanting. I think that one of the things
that is important to recognize, especially in this day and age,
it is important to have those type of rules.
And this isn't necessarily just on the basis of, I want to say
transparency. It is we live in a space where
there is matters like the Bribery Act, etcetera, different
things. And it's important that persons
who want to support political parties and support advocacy,
support public policy, education can do it under a framework
where they don't feel as though could there be negative
repercussions. That was not advanced in 2017.
It was something that I did assign to the former attorney
general. It did not press forward.
It's unfortunate, but it is something that I'm committed to
and it's something I actually want to see through prior to my
time leaving. I think that it's important.
It's something that was in the 2017 election manifesto and
something that we really need to complete and get done,
especially in this modern day and age.
Cool. Thank you.
It's interesting actually 'cause I think I've seen a few Facebook
posts by anonymous groups, independent, somebody supporting
independence. I can't.
And there's no idea who they are, no idea who's getting their
money from, you know, So I think.
These things I don't, I don't think it's a tenable situation.
The reality is that Bermuda has been the wild world W when it
comes to campaign financing and that's what it is.
It's one of the things that, you know, one likes to do as being,
you know, leader of the party in so far as, you know, raising
money and doing those type of things.
But I think that Bermuda can benefit from it.
And then from my perspective, it's something that I'm firmly
committed to because I think that, you know, if you want to
talk about things regarding legacy, the things that was
inside of our 2017 platform were very forward-looking.
A number of those things were done.
Some of them were not done, like I'm still this, it was a sage
conversion recommendation about parliamentary oversight
committee and those things that ain't done.
We changed House standing orders, but those things have
not been put in place by the Speaker, even though me as
Minister of Finance is given funding.
And I think that it is a disservice to the accountability
matrix of the legislature to hold the legislature to account.
So I hope we can press forward on those.
Things I was intrigued by you saying that actually, because I
remember on a previous podcast I went through what I would like
to see from an MP if they were full time.
And then you came up in this, what the PLP came up in this
about reducing the number of seats.
I mean, have you any? I mean, you can't commit to I
suppose, but hey, can you give an idea of how many you've?
I don't, I don't have an idea what I think is important.
So let's put it in a broad context.
When I have the conversation with international business, I
think what is important to recognize is that Bermuda is an
extremely sophisticated international finance centre.
And the reality is that it is difficult to attract persons
into political service. And when we go over debates
around, you know, compensation and different things like that,
one of the arguments that is made is that I think it's
something that's broader in a conversation is that, you know,
there may be more appetite for that if there were a lower
number of MPs. But I also think exactly.
But I also think that there is. I also think that when we're
talking about, and I want to read it, additional options for
electoral reform because absolute balloting has never
been promised by the Progressive Labour Party in an election
manifesto. I just want to be clear about
that. But this time is the first time
that it's appeared in our manifesto.
But we haven't amended the Parliamentary Election Act since
1978. And so from that particular
aspect, I think those are all the types of things we should
look at if we're going to be a leader in digital services.
Do we need to have more digital voting?
There's something in here that is that came from our members
about participatory budgeting. When we're talking about third
sector, you know, often times people like why are they getting
money? Why are they not getting money?
There are things that we can start to devolve to people
through technology and that's what this platform is looking
at. It's more of a forward-looking
view that came from our members. I think fewer MPs personally.
It's great. You know, I've said this before,
I'm not working if anybody in that park myself so I can have
an opinion, but I think fewer MPs is a really good idea
because you know, I would like to see more oversight
committees. You know, I'd like to see JSC
meeting more often, meeting the pH parliamentary account.
Is it pH that currently stands for now meet those kind of
committees meeting more often and and more scrutiny of
legislation, it seems to be really important.
It, it is and if there's something that is a challenge is
that the I guess I don't want to say the part time nature because
I don't think that all people ask me full time, But I do
believe that there is more strength that is needed for the
legislative branch because a lot of people don't understand the
way that this functions. The legislative branch's job is
to scrutinize the work of the executive.
When we committed to setting up parliamentary oversight
committees in 2017, we had a House standing orders changed in
2018. Those overnight site committees
have not actually ever met. They've been named once or twice
and it's a challenge and of course that is not something
that me as premier can direct. That is something that is in the
hands of the Speaker of the House and it's not for me to
level criticism. But it will work better if the
Legislature is actually doing that oversight work to help
enhance people's. Understanding the government has
helped their feet held to the fire by those kind of things.
Last time the constitution was amended was 2003 I think to make
the single seat constituencies major amendment.
Yeah, and I believe the UK at the time said they wouldn't
entertain any further changes outside of independence.
Do you think they would be more amenable now?
That position has changed. the United Kingdom has extended to
the overseas territories, you know, to state, you know, what
particular changes that you welcome to the Constitution.
And so that's not the case. I think there was actually a
subsequent constitutional amendment when it came, I think
afterwards, I don't remember what it was where there was
ombudsman or something else. I'm not sure if that's actually
inside the Constitution, but on the these matters, the United
Kingdom is laid it out. The view from the government is
that we welcome a clear and transparent process for that
because there are changes, whether it's these type of
things, there's modernization, changes in the in the terms of
reference for the Tax Reform Commission.
And I've made it clear in statements to Parliament that I
want to consider changes to our foundational documents being in
the constitution around protections to ensure that we
have, you know, almost balanced budget provisions so that the
money that can come from the corporate income tax, though it
may not be here forever, it can be saved and invested for future
uses. So I mean, there's upgrades that
can be done. We haven't really done a whole
lot of work in the constitution. Is that going to be a focus of
my next 18 months? I'm going to return to office?
I'm not going to say it is, but I think that and it is important
that that process be done, but I think it's vital because people
like all of this chatter around, you know, independent candidates
and there's not people in and all the rest and people don't
get to, you know, have a say. I think that it's really around
having a better functioning legislative branch that does
have those activities, that can get into this work, that can
form those committees so that people can actually know and
understand and actually come up with policies that can be
debated, that can be advanced by the executive.
So I feel that sometimes political parties have a
responsibility to be kind of thought leaders in our society
and sometimes to push the envelope.
I think it's called the Overton Window and UK dialogue.
And I see that in the PLP Constant platform, you have a
few pretty progressive things. One of them is going to be
modernizing abortion, for example, and that I imagine
there's a large socially conservative church contingent
within the Bermuda voting base. Do you how do you feel this is
going to play out? Well, I don't think it's a
question. It's going to play out.
I think that the platform is very clear.
It just basically says removing abortion from the Criminal Code.
I think that's kind of, I don't want to say Victorian, but I
think it's backwards and we'll find out what's replace it,
which balances all types of which balances, you know, the
needs and desires of the community, community.
But I think it's a clear statement.
It's something that's come from our members, something a lot of
people don't even know that it's contained the Criminal Code.
People go to it and say, you know, it's a matter for the
Minister of Health, for the Minister of Health, you know,
said actually it's not a matter for me.
It's actually a matter for the attorney general who is a
minister response for the Criminal Code.
So it's all about making sure. And so we have a act given
vibrant party, we have a research and platform committee
that has met on numerous times going over these things.
And yes, I think it's important for thought leadership, but I
also think that it's important to push back against the silly
criticism that we get that these are just promises that aren't
ever put into place because that is not true.
We can look back to 2017, the matters that were advanced to
the 2017 platform. We can look back to 2020 and see
the matters that were advanced to the 2020 platform.
It was everything completed? No, but a lot of those things
are still in train. Perfect example when we talk
about landlord tenant reform, people like, well, landlord
tenant reform is simple. It's almost as though people
think that changing legislation is a magic wand.
Landlord tenant reform will basically amend every single
lease that exists in the country.
That is not something that you can just do in three or four
weeks. It is something that you have to
research and take into account. And so I think that it is
important that, you know, in some cases we've seen the
repercussions of sometimes rushing legislative processes as
well. And I think that's something
that the. To bring legislation back.
To and I think that's something that the one of the independent
candidates, Lorne Francis used to be parliamentary drafter was
raised. So I think it's important that
we discuss these issues as well. So next one I Jonathan, I was
going to jump in here. The other quite controversial 1
reviewing and amending consent legislation to equalise the age
of consent regardless of sex or gender.
It doesn't say that's up or down.
I mean, again, is Bermuda ready for that?
I. Tend, as Jonathan said, tend to
be socially. Concerned also I can, I, I mean,
I can't tell you to be completely honest.
No, I, I don't necessarily have that many thoughts.
And I say that from the perspective that this is the
platform that is given from us and that is what we need to
carry out. That is the way this platform
came to our central committee. Our central committee approved
this platform. It's going to be carried
forward. I do know that members of the
LGBTQ population in Bermuda, they are somewhat unhappy about
the separate but equal approach to marriage equality with the
Civil Civil Partnership Act. Is that a settled issue for the
party as far as you're? Concerned, given that there's no
changes to what we have inside of our platform, then it's
settled for now, absolutely. Just one other thing before we
move on to other subjects, one other thing in the platform
which I noticed policies to promote greater pay equity
between Bermudians and expats, including requiring businesses
to report detailed categorized renumeration data such as
housing allowances and other benefits.
Nothing wrong with that at all. Absolutely nothing wrong.
But of course, my guess is that that really effects
international business, especially when it comes to
things like housing allowance. And there's been a lot of chat
in the run up to the CIT and I'm still going on now about the
need to make sure Bermuda remains and increases its
competitiveness. Doesn't this denude that
competitiveness somewhat? Well, I don't agree and I think
that's not the best way of looking at it.
I think that our research and platform committee is
channelling the views of our membership to make sure that
there is fairness. I mean, I think that's what it
is. And in, in these are global
companies, they probably have to report these statistics where
they operate in the United States or operate in the United
Kingdom. So why should it be any
different? I agree, but the the the the the
feeling is that you want to equalize the pay, which is
saying nothing wrong with. Hold a second that it's not what
it says. Actually it seems to me.
OK, Well, no, I, I don't think that you should go further than
what the platform has said. And that is I do not go further
than what the platform has said. The platform has asked for this
and I think that it is important information on trying to find
the page because I think it's it's vital that we make sure
that we put these things in context.
That's exactly what they are. So you get all this data and
show there's a huge discrepancy between experts and the medians.
You're not going to do anything with it.
Well, I think that's when there's another decision made in
the conversation discussion on what is the way to go.
But let's take an example. Let's take an example of what
Minister Jason Hayward, who will most likely be the one who's
responsible for executing that particular aspect of the
platform. Minister Jason Hayward
identifies a problem, comes up with policy proposals, puts
those things out to consultation, gets wide
consultation and feedback and then comes back and then decides
the pause position, puts that policy position out and then
goes to the parliament, debates this particular matter.
And then the government has a policy position that is blessed
by the parliament. That is the way that this stuff
should work. And so I don't believe that we
should read into what it may or may not be because the fact is
that I know that many companies don't actually discriminate
between housing allowances, between what's provided to
reviewed as a non Bermudians. And so that is more of a minutes
and Omer that it's all, you know, non Burgundians don't get
things that Burgundians do because I think that persons
companies are recognizing that in order to be competitive, in
order to retain your staff, you need to give these type of
benefits as well. So I think it's important to
have the information rather than speculating on what it may or
may not be. Well, I'll be interested to see
what happens when, if there is a big gap.
See what you come to, Jonathan you.
There is a big gap. I think that's didn't I say if I
thought I'd, yeah. You said when?
On page 32 of the platform. Thank you for helping you got
page. There's a bit there concerning
cannabis cannabis reform, going to read it out.
Reviewing and updating cannabis related guidance, regulations
and oversight to strike a balance between the lipnets of
the UK framework and safe, responsible adult cannabis use.
Now we did have some businesses that opened up in the last few
years selling cannabis related products or hemp products I
should say. And there seemed to be a change
in the policy which led to many of these businesses shutting
down, causing them a loss of massive investments in the
business. But no one has really clarified
what changed in the policy. No law changed so.
I don't think there was a change in the policy.
That's what they've said, that there was a change in the
policy. I think that when things are
challenged, they are analyzed and the law is very clear on
what is hemp and what is not hemp.
The law is clear that hemp is the actual flower, the that
product. So those things are the actual
product. The other challenge that we have
is, and this has come from a space and we have to look at
this in a broad base. We have to look at this from the
perspective that we understand the Progressive Labour Party's
position as identified in our 2020 election manifest.
So where we were blessed to go forward with a having a
regulated cannabis market in Bermuda.
That was the view in the perspective that was law was
passed twice. It was turned back by the United
Trust, by the Senate, then secondly by the United Kingdom.
So what we hold a second, hold a second.
What I've said is that we are going to write, I said this
publicly, that now that there's a new foreign secretary, because
it was turned down in Liz Trust's last in office, we did
say that we are going to write to the foreign secretary to see
if he wants to reconsider this. But in addition, on this
particular matter, I think it's a recognition because I remember
the conversations on this and our research and platform
committee was like, why hasn't this advanced?
And I explained to them the reasons.
I said, hey, I mean, we pass it, the UK's turn it down.
And so they decided that we should have another go of it.
And they've said, you know, within the limits of the UK
framework and safe, responsible at all cannabis.
On the issue which you're speaking about, again, going
back to it, there was not so much a change in policy.
I think it was when some persons were challenged on the policy,
it was like, oh, the chamber was like, well, this is actually how
it's supposed to be applied. And that has led to the
challenges of which we're facing.
And it's been, it's been messy and it hasn't been good because
we understand the policy position of the government.
The policy position of the government is that cannabis use
should be discouraged. However, we do not believe that
it is the best approach to put significant criminal resource,
etcetera. I believe it should be treated
as a public health issue rather than a criminal issue.
I'm interviewing the new governor next week, so if you
want to send me some questions to ask him.
I'm sure the new governor will have a lot of fun over the last
few days. Going back to the question about
the party being a thought leader for the country, one of the key
objectives in the PLP constitution is self
determination and independence. For since 2020 you've had 30
seats in parliament and yet independence is being almost a
naughty word. Nothing is really being made
clear to advance that. Goal.
And that was the opportunity with such a majority, yeah.
So I think that that would not be factual.
Let's start in 2020. We created a Minister of Legal
Affairs and Constitutional reform, and no, it was not.
It was specifically around the issues of looking at our
constitutional relationship with the United Kingdom, examining
what that constitutional ratio was and the options.
But I also think that it's important, and this is something
that I hold dear. You don't spring things on the
electorate. You get what I'm saying.
You don't just say, hey, guess what?
All of a sudden we're going to do this before the election.
I made it very clear that independence is not part, and I
call it sovereignty, a part of our five year plan.
That was not, but I think it was important to discuss what are
our constitutional options because a lot of times these
things are held in uninformed debate where people just say,
oh, it's this, oh, it's that, oh, it's that.
And that is a particular challenge.
And so I don't accept the perspective that you get that
nothing was done. We did produce a report.
There was public discussion on that.
There was public consultation on people's views and thoughts
around that particular matter. Did those matters progress
further so we can actually have a further discussion in the
House to assemble on it? No.
Do I think that we should? Absolutely.
But I think that it's important that we hold faith with what we
put in front of the election. I mercilessly criticize the 1
Bermuda Alliance for doing exactly the opposite of what was
stated inside of their platform. When we go to our cabinet
meetings on Tuesday, the platform is in the center of the
table every week. It is our guiding document over
five years of governance and so it is not in keeping.
If someone wants to take a different tack than what is
inside of their manifesto, then it is right and proper for them
to go back to the people, say this is what I want to do and
ask the people to bless and endorse it.
So basically what I'm hearing is the PLP remains committed to
independence, but not at this time.
Well, I think it would say that it's in our, it's in our
sovereignty is in our platform, not in a platform.
Sovereignty is in our Constitution.
Sovereignty is in our mission and vision statement.
And the constitution of the party says that the Progressive
Labour Party will serve as a vehicle to move Bermuda towards
nationhood and developing the necessary items as a precursor
to that. And if you look at what we've
done over the years in so far as making sure one person, one man,
one vote of equal value, strengthening our system, I
think when you were in a position where you are now an
international financial center, might soon, you know, within 10
years have a sovereign wealth fund and also have a debt free
country where it can have been a different position, a different
view. And we have to continue to press
along while also informing persons of why it's important.
You know, my feelings on sovereignty, my feelings on
sovereignty have never changed because I have lived the
experience of being the Premier and Minister of Finance and the
United Kingdom taking an absolutely opposite position to
what has been requested by the country and our international
business community. That happens often and anytime
meet with international business community, I remind them that
sovereignty isn't around all those boogeymen and all the rest
and that's why it is important to have the conversation,
discussion. I will say one other thing is
it's a rather topical issue. The Progressive Labour Party's
position has been clear since 2013 and it's something that I
think people should also consider around that the
Progressive Labour Party is against the granting of status
to persons until we can actually grant citizenship.
You're running out of time. You said you've got to get back
to see your constituents tonight and there are a couple of
questions. OK, well let's go for another 5
minutes. OK, cool.
You're very, very gracious. Record number of candidates,
huge number of independents. Under this electoral system.
Yeah, huge number of independents.
What did he put that down to? What?
Did I put it down? To yeah, I, well, I put in this
phrase right. I I asked that to Jerry and
Richardson, leader of the IBA. He said it showed the frailty of
the PLPI, counted it by saying hang on, it shows the frailty.
It's clearly the frailty main position.
I would say it's the frailty of both of all mainstream parties
that they want people want change.
Well, let me put it this way. I think that a lot of this is
manufactured because it is. Oh, come on, Jeremy, you used to
be a reporter. You know that people are out
there throwing money at people to put their names in to try to
achieve result. That's what's happening on the
doorstep. I got a report today about money
being thrown at people. All this type of stuff is people
have tried multiple ways to try to defeat the Progressive Labour
Party. We can go back to it.
We can go back to 2012, secret plans, dissolution, form back,
come back together again, all types of different different
ways and avenues and attempt to do so.
We need to get back to a space in this country where we are
debating policies, where we are actually looking at the
policies. There is no coherent policy
platform from independent candidates whatsoever.
Well, that's the nature of independence.
I've got it. But, but so so so we are now all
of a sudden talking about how we're going to discuss changing
a system or looking at something else.
It doesn't make sense. Premier, I want to go back to
that. Go ahead.
You say it's only because he's being bankrolled.
In many ways there are. Oh, come on.
So it wouldn't happen one of the.
Wealthiest person in the country is behind this.
We've got that. Everyone knows that.
I mean, it's something we don't speak about because he's a
national hero. But come on, let's be clear that
this is this type of stuff. And So what we see is that we do
not have debates on policies persons because the statutes
they hold are not questioned on the actual policy perspectives
and completely false information.
John Swan goes around and saying international business leaving
everything collapsing when his building is now fully rented for
the first time since its construction.
Come on now. I mean.
This, this is this is just manufactured stuff.
When, when? So we're clear, no one is
actually talking about the policy differences that have
been put forward by the parties that have the chance to form a
government. And the reality is there are
only two come tomorrow or sorry, come Wednesday, there is either
going to be a Progressive Labour Party government, yeah, an Oba
or an Oba government. Those are the things now.
Coalition. People have to win enough seats
for that and I do not believe that it is likely that
Independence Oregon other parts are going to breakthrough.
That is the view. It may change and if that's the
thing, then we can have a different conversation.
The kind of message you're getting back from your
influence. But but what?
But what I will say is what I said on Saturday at our rally,
what I said today in our press conference, that should the
Progressive Labour Party be successful and have the majority
of seats, I will happily reach out to some independent
candidates and also to the FDM because I actually believe that
some persons have put forward decent policy positions that
deserve examination. No party has monopoly on good
ideas. I happen to think that our
platform is excellent and has many good ideas that we can
carry forward. But there's other views and
suggestions that we've seen. And I think that it's important
because if there's one message that we're hearing from the
country is that they want unity. And so from our perspective,
we're going to make sure to advance that.
Now, you mentioned there's not been any debates.
A couple weeks ago, I believe you announced that you were up
for a debate and the Oba leader said he was up for it as well.
And here we are, the eve of the election, and it hasn't
happened. Are you willing to speak about
that? I mean, that's been a very long
and complex process. What I can say is that there's
been no shortage of many numerous candidate forums both
online and in person around the country about the thing.
Throughout numerous press conferences, numerous
engagements, canvassing, platform release, etcetera,
people have the opportunity to judge what is being put forward.
Am I disappointed that we didn't have the opportunity to go ahead
and combat the falsehoods in a live national audience?
Yes. But we've also been doing that
on the doorstep and making sure that it's clear we have come
through a very difficult time. It's like people forget that
four or five years ago, we're in the midst of global pandemic.
We have come through a very difficult time.
We have come into a space where we have balanced the budget.
We have come to a space where we are about to get significant
additional revenue, record number of Bermudians working in
international business, record employment in international
business, tourism that is recovering and with the fact
that we are beginning to make sure that we are having the
investments to build up our infrastructure for the future.
If you look at, but I'm saying if you look at other countries,
Jeremy, how many other countries can we can talk about that have
balanced budgets? Look at the United States, look
at Canada, they'll seriously look at the United Kingdom.
Look, you have to be realistic. And so meanwhile, we have been
doing this while, while you've cut taxes for 86% of workers
while. This is this is a speech I can
repeat. But I understand, but, but this
is the reality because remember, this is a debate.
The 1 Bermuda Alliance says no, don't do that.
Companies will leave if you increase taxes on persons.
But I've got it, let the work. But they were wrong.
That's important. We cut taxes for 86% of workers
in this country, increased it on the higher earners.
The companies did not leave, they hired more.
We've balanced the budget and we're pressing ahead.
So it's important to say that. OK, I've got one more question.
You go. One, maybe two OK elections
tomorrow. What's your prediction?
I have no prediction. I submit to the will of the
voters. That's a very political answer.
And it's the truth. I don't, I don't give
predictions. I can tell you.
I can tell you what I said the last time around.
Yeah, it's the last time around. When someone asked me at
headquarters, I said I would be disappointed if we didn't get
28, but I'll be perfectly happy with 22.
And I will say the same thing. I'll be perfectly happy with 22
seats. Will you be happy with 21?
That's fine. I mean a witness, a win.
Win 19. No, A witness, a win.
I seem a little bit difficult. 19 doesn't seem like once ago,
but do I expect it will be that low?
No, but I'm not going to make a prediction.
I know that our candidates. Because he didn't know what.
I'm saying, but our candidates have worked incredibly hard
during this election campaign. We've made sure that we focus on
the issues that matter to the voters inside of this country,
and we've laid out realistic plans on how to address the
concerns that people are facing. And we're the only party that
has laid out realistic plans to address the challenges that are
being faced. And it is also important to
remember this is not about what any happened last week or what
may have happened last month. The government that is elected
is the government for five years.
And what we have shown is that when tested with international
crises, we are prepared to respond.
And we know that the world is uncertain and no one knows
what's going to the next five years.
Will. Break 11 more question.
And I've got to put it to you because it's only fair.
Actually, when I interviewed Jerry and Richardson of the
Yeah, he said he called you a showman.
And I looked at the definition of this as a person who produces
or present shows as a profession, especially the
proprietor, manager or an MC of a circus fair or other variety
show. So are you a showman?
I would say that I have been bless with the ability to
clearly communicate a message. You have that but but what I
would say is that anyone who knows me knows that I work
incredibly hard. I actually think that is an
offensive. Well, that's why no hold a
second. I think it's offensive and I
went to school with Jarian because I will when we're in
Parliament, Jarian isn't even read up on the items and I said
that's not correct here. Look at the law.
They ask questions. I'm like, how are you a
legislature legislator and you do not know what the law says.
I spend my time reading legislation, I in my time
researching things and other things.
So yes, do I have the ability to communicate?
Absolutely. But here is the reality.
We are communicating policies that have been formulated that
work and make sense when everyone in this country said or
when the international business community, when the 1 Bermuda
Alliance, when other person said John Swan as well, don't raise
taxes on high earners to cut taxes for working people in the
midst of a cost of living crisis.
We pressed ahead and we were vindicated because we have
increased number of jobs and we have a balanced budget due to
the fact that we rebalance this tax system.
Whereas working people, and I have to leave it here, it is
important. People who are making $48,000 a
year, this is like a cashier working at marketplace.
When we came into office, we're paying $2280 a year in taxes.
Today they're paying 240. That's $2000 more in that
individual's pockets. That is a real change.
I've got one last question last time.
So the other weekend I I picked up the PLP platform.
I was reading it in preparation for the podcast and I was on the
bus and someone told me reading the PLP platform and they said
to me the PLP has not done anything for workers and they've
not done anything for black people in Bermuda.
Now, I think that's objectively mistaken if you look at the
statistics, but there's definitely a feeling of some
people that they've been left behind.
How do? You.
Sorry, just to add to that, yeah, I agree with that,
actually. Something I'm glad you were
reminded of it because he seemed to disconnect.
And I said this to Jason Haywood when I, when I interviewed him,
the people on the street, if you like, are not feeling the, the
economic buzz, They're not feeling the economic growth.
You know, you, you can see complaints all the time about
the price of food and stuff like that.
It's this disconnect between what you're saying and what
people are saying on the street. I would say that it's not a
disconnect. It's not a disconnect.
We understand that people are hurting and it's a difficult.
We told me, we told me a showman.
I'm sorry, Jarian. No, Jarian, it is a difficult
political message to communicate that if we didn't take the
actions of which we've taken, things would be more difficult.
But that's the reality. We do not have the ability to
control everything that happens globally.
We can't control global oil prices.
We can't control global gas prices.
We can't. We cannot control or global fuel
prices or sorry, global or food import prices.
But what we can do is use our tax code to try to bring relief
to the persons where we can. And so trust me, if you go into
a grocery store, you will say I'm not feeling it and I get it.
But that's why our platform is very targeted.
It starts on the matter, talking about affordability, talking
about housing. But right on the next page, when
it goes into food, it says implementing fair pricing
control and transparency measures to ensure that the
benefits of government 0. Support duties on essential
goods are passed directly to consumers.
Those are the types of things. And so that's a major step when
you start talking about what is prayer, pricing control and
transparency mean, and persons will argue, well, why I didn't
do that before, That is not something that you go in
lightly. You want the electorate to say
we want you to go ahead and do that because we want you to
respond to conditions. I'm just wondering if people
will see that as empty words. But why?
Because you're just not feeling it.
Look it under the grocery shop and it costs $400.
But, but so I can meet, so I can say something on this empty
words cannot be applied to what is being done in the future.
So persons can state that if we are not delivering what we have
stated here, then it is empty words.
But what they cannot state is what we have pledged in our
previous platforms on these particular matters are empty
words because we've delivered many of them.
I think you've been very kind with your time.
Yes, I'm way over time. I am to keep talking so we
probably. Thank you very much for joining
us. I'm going to be doing a live
election like with Bernie's. Hope you'll be able to talk at
some stage, I don't know how. That maybe if you all send
someone to PLP headquarters, I think they're setting home media
tanks. We'll figure out, but hopefully
I'm I'm just exhausted. I bet, and I think on that note,
I will say thank you very much indeed and and.
By the way, congratulations on the podcast.
Thank you. Sorry that you lost your Co host
but welcome. Jonathan.
More than more than brilliant replacement.
As I mentioned, I will be on Bernie's tomorrow.
It's Tuesday for the election night special.
And on Wednesday, we're coming back with another podcast to
kind of have a look at the fallout from the election.
I think Curtis Dickinson and Mike Fahey will hopefully be
joining me on that day. After that, I am taking a break.
So you'll hear from me about a week after that.
So until then, goodbye. And have a great, great
election. Remember to vote tomorrow.
Yes, turn out. Vote.