1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,640 Welcome to the News Navigators with me, Jeremy Deacon. 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:07,320 And me, Jonathan Starling. Don't forget you can find us on 3 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:10,640 Spotify, Apple and Amazon. And of course, you can follow us 4 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:12,400 on LinkedIn, Facebook and Blue Sky. 5 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:15,360 If you want to send us questions, e-mail us at the News 6 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:20,720 and navs@gmail.com. Today is the eve of the 2025 7 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,280 election and it's my great pleasure to welcome the Premier 8 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:28,120 and PRP Leader, David Burt. David, thank you for joining us. 9 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,920 Good evening to you, Mr. Zeke, and good evening to you, Mr. 10 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:33,920 Sarlin. Can I, can I just say something 11 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:35,120 first? Let's get rid of the 12 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:37,120 formalities. I'm Jeremy, and that's Jonathan. 13 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:39,880 Oh well, I can't get rid of the formalities on this one. 14 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:42,360 One of the lessons I was learning when I came to the shop 15 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:44,800 is that that's the way it is. But go ahead, what you got? 16 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:46,920 Are you tired? You must be exhausted. 17 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:47,840 I am. That's OK. 18 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:48,520 That's what. Are you doing? 19 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:50,240 What are you doing tonight? You got anything else tonight? 20 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:51,160 You're going to put your feet up. 21 00:00:51,160 --> 00:00:52,680 And I do have another interview tonight. 22 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:57,520 I have some constituents that I still need to visit and then 23 00:00:57,560 --> 00:00:59,760 hopefully try to get some rest because I didn't get very much 24 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:01,320 last night. But I'm surprised you've been 25 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:03,440 very busy. Campaigns are busy. 26 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,320 But it's not just campaigns, it's family. 27 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:07,880 Yeah. And other responsibilities. 28 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:11,520 I was worship leader at Saint Paul's AME, Saint Paul AME Men's 29 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:14,120 Day yesterday. So was that in addition to other 30 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,480 family commitments? And, you know, my children have 31 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,040 activities and, you know, Valentine's Day and all the 32 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:20,440 rest. So it's not just all 33 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:22,400 campaigning. So campaigning has to fit around 34 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:26,280 the family stuff. And I also still am the premier 35 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,800 and Minister of Finance, so there's that stuff as. 36 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,680 And presumably you're still got a budget to prepare if you'd get 37 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:34,600 a government. That would be for the next 38 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,800 government should make no assumptions as the Minister of 39 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,960 Finance who are may not be on. Well, it on Wednesday after, 40 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,560 yeah, yeah, indeed. It's something that we've 41 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,520 touched on on the podcast before and I want to touch on it with 42 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,200 you because if it's only really fair, but we talked about the 43 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,720 possibility of you being a bit of a lame duck premier in that 44 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,520 you've made it very plain that you'll step down as PLP leader 45 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,480 and therefore premier. I think it's at the annual 46 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:01,400 delegates conference in October next year. 47 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:04,720 October 2020, Sixth correct. Which only gives you around 18 48 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:08,320 months to be the premier. So my question that I posed in 49 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:10,840 the podcast is which premier are we voting for? 50 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,200 Are we voting for you or the people have been made of voting 51 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:16,000 for you? And a lot of it is about voting 52 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,880 for the leader, the personality, or we're voting for somebody 53 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,240 else. It's in a strange position, 54 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:22,080 Aren't you? I I no. 55 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,240 I don't think so. And I think that's a misguided 56 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,160 interpretation of the way that the Progressive Labour Party 57 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:28,840 approaches its style of governance. 58 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,640 We have a platform that has been put together by our membership 59 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:35,520 and that is not something that comes from the leader, the 60 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:37,560 cabinet or the candidates. That's something that comes from 61 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,520 the members of our party, that is given to our members, that is 62 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:44,200 carried out and executed, that is put before the country wide 63 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,600 and detailed and any government will carry it out or sorry, not 64 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,120 any government, but any leader of the Progressive Leader Party 65 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,520 is bound to carry out the platform which is voted by the 66 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:54,080 Central Committee. I mean, so that's what's 67 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,280 carrying. Forward, I kind of thought knew 68 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:00,160 that you would say that and you it's from the bottom up. 69 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:04,600 But nowadays being a politician, being the leader of the party, 70 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,200 being the premier is very much about that person. 71 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:09,360 You see it all over the all over the world. 72 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:11,840 Well, I think that there's some leaders who they want a lot of. 73 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:16,000 Them are going to vote for you because of your personality, 74 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,280 your record. That's that's what you may say. 75 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,640 I take a different view, but we can agree to disagree. 76 00:03:20,640 --> 00:03:23,720 And so on that particular measure, we have 36 candidates, 77 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:26,160 there's 36 separate elections which are happening throughout 78 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,360 the country. Candidates are inside of about 79 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,080 living rooms, on doorsteps, inside of communities, sharing 80 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,440 the message, sharing what it is that we've done, sharing what 81 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:36,520 our plans are going forward. So I take a different. 82 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:37,880 View. You don't think it makes any 83 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,280 difference on the doorstep? You don't think that's? 84 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:42,800 Going to I think that I think that those things are a factor, 85 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:45,640 but I don't necessarily think that when you do the research 86 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:47,600 etcetera, I don't think that's the biggest factor. 87 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,680 People are talking about the party, people are talking about 88 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:51,760 the platforms and other people are talking about the persons 89 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:54,400 and individual constituencies. They're not necessarily so much 90 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,160 worried about it's on who's the leader of the party. 91 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:00,440 Fair enough. One thing that struck me 92 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:02,280 actually, because of course we're starting to see, we will 93 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:04,320 start to see the effects of the Corporate Incomes Act. 94 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:06,760 So I think you mentioned. First payments will come in 95 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:11,560 August of 2020. Five, August of 2025, yes, OK. 96 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:15,480 Five months from now. So you will have as a government 97 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,240 10s or hundreds of millions of dollars to spend. 98 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,200 In theory, this could be the utopia of the Atlantic. 99 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:26,320 Doesn't that tempt you to stay on because half all that money 100 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,440 at your disposal you could leave quite the legacy? 101 00:04:29,840 --> 00:04:33,040 So here's the thing, first of all, I think that it's important 102 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:37,200 to recognize that we have laid out a very detailed and long 103 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:40,240 term plan which was covered in our pre budget report over the 104 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,400 responsible use of corporate income tax revenue. 105 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,240 We want to start there. The second thing is in regards 106 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:46,880 to my time, it's a joke that I have. 107 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:52,680 I think I even joked about it at the rally this Saturday where I 108 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:56,280 says, you know, seniors say and I tell my wife, you know, I've 109 00:04:56,280 --> 00:04:58,240 been spending the last seven years, you know, basically 110 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,320 scratching what we don't itch because looking for funds to 111 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,360 try, you know, and claw through a pandemic, try to make sure we 112 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:06,600 can provide relief, make sure that we deal with matters 113 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,680 related to infrastructure and others. 114 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,920 And then, you know, on my way out, whoever may suck see me 115 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,760 will not have those worries. But just so we're clear, there 116 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:17,320 is no changing my. Mind no, no. 117 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,520 No, no, this is not about me. This is about my family. 118 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:24,720 I think that people do not understand the intense stress 119 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,560 that a job like this puts on your family. 120 00:05:27,840 --> 00:05:31,560 My son was 16 months the day that I was sworn in his 121 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,520 premiere. My children cries when I go 122 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:35,920 traveling and different things like that. 123 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,480 So no, this is not about I'm. I am fully committed to doing 124 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,720 this job and then but I'm not stepping away from politics. 125 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,080 I'm going to continue to represent my constituents and 126 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,480 I'm looking forward to becoming an MP. 127 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:50,760 And as I've said to other persons, I do not seek a job, 128 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,560 you know, assuming we're in the election, I do not seek a job in 129 00:05:53,840 --> 00:05:56,800 a future PLP cabinet. But just as I would expect any 130 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:00,000 Progressive Labour Party MP to give due consideration if I was 131 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:04,320 to ask them to serve in cabinet, I will do the same if the leader 132 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,200 who comes after me and wants me to serve. 133 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:08,200 So you're going to be a backbench MP but you're going to 134 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,440 stay quiet when the new premier or the finance minister says 135 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:14,400 something you don't agree with? I see where you're going. 136 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,120 I mean, from from this perspective, I think that 137 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,600 there's many examples have been followed, but I I actually 138 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:24,320 looking forward to being an MP. You have to remember I've always 139 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:28,200 been on the front bench. Yeah, since I've been inside in 140 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,280 the Senate. I was junior Minister of Finance 141 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:33,680 when I was elected to the House of Assembly. 142 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,120 I was shadow Minister of Finance, shadow Minister of 143 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,840 Finance, of course is you have to prepare budget reply, but 144 00:06:38,840 --> 00:06:41,480 unlike a budget statement, you don't have a massive team to 145 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,000 write and put those things together. 146 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,320 And then of course in government is serving as Premier Minister 147 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:49,440 of Finance, the premier and then back to premier Minister of 148 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,400 Finance. So I'm looking forward to 149 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,480 reconnecting with my constituents and enjoying 150 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:56,480 constituency work because it's something that I miss. 151 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:00,560 So the the deputy leader, he's not running in this election, 152 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,480 Minister Alter Rabin. So obviously the PLP is going to 153 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,400 be minus the deputy leader position as of tomorrow, 154 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,400 midnight. So I'm assuming there's going to 155 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,400 be a special delegates conference to elect a new 156 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:14,720 leader? Absolutely. 157 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:20,760 Our Constitution does states that in the event of an absence 158 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,080 of the position of leader of the party or deputy leader of the 159 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,480 party there or vacancy, not an absence of course, but a vacancy 160 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,000 election is held within 30 days, right. 161 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,120 And so the party will proceed upon that process and meeting 162 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:36,200 with the party leadership on Wednesday, which is normal after 163 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:38,640 a general election to plan what our next. 164 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:44,080 Steps may or may not be OK and my understanding is the deputy 165 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,560 leader has to be an MP so we'll know absolutely who is in the 166 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,920 running after tomorrow. Yep, our constitution does 167 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,040 require deputy Leader to be a member of the House of Assembly. 168 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:54,400 Right. Thank you. 169 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,280 Ron looking I mean, it's it's fun times. 170 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:59,960 I mean, it's interesting times, but that's the thing. 171 00:07:59,960 --> 00:08:04,120 I mean, service takes a lot out of you and it's people, you 172 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,040 know, sometimes we forget, like even I speaking to my 173 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,480 constituents a few days ago, we even forget some of the things 174 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,720 that we've done because there's been so many things that have 175 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,360 been, you know, accomplished and done over the years. 176 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,040 But you know, whether it's the work that Colonel has put in 177 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,240 over the many years, the work that Walters put in, you know, 178 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:23,240 they deserve their retirement and I wish them well in the 179 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,160 future. So I'd like to segue onto some 180 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,600 platform questions, if that's OK, we have a good. 181 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,840 Discussion about this actually. You know I enjoy talking about 182 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,159 my platform. We enjoy talking about your 183 00:08:33,159 --> 00:08:34,520 platform. But you want to know what's 184 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,440 important, you know how the PLP's platform come is made, 185 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:38,960 right? Yeah, yes, we don't do. 186 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,480 There are things inside of this platform, just like the last 187 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,800 platform, that are not things that I would naturally say that 188 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:46,400 this is what we want. Well, that's what we were going 189 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,360 to come on to go right on ahead the station, Jonathan. 190 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,040 In in the PLP platform, it talks about engaging in a public 191 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:56,280 consultation of additional options for electoral reform, 192 00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:00,200 including a reduction in parliamentary seats and campaign 193 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:05,520 financing rules and transparency Now campaign financing that was 194 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,440 in, I believe, at least the 2017 election that was not in 20. 195 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:11,240 2020 to 2017. What work has been done on that? 196 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,960 To be honest, not very much work has been done on that and it's 197 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,280 not for a lack of wanting. I think that one of the things 198 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:20,920 that is important to recognize, especially in this day and age, 199 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,040 it is important to have those type of rules. 200 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:27,160 And this isn't necessarily just on the basis of, I want to say 201 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:29,960 transparency. It is we live in a space where 202 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,880 there is matters like the Bribery Act, etcetera, different 203 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:34,760 things. And it's important that persons 204 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:38,280 who want to support political parties and support advocacy, 205 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:41,440 support public policy, education can do it under a framework 206 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:43,280 where they don't feel as though could there be negative 207 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:46,760 repercussions. That was not advanced in 2017. 208 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:50,320 It was something that I did assign to the former attorney 209 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:52,120 general. It did not press forward. 210 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:54,640 It's unfortunate, but it is something that I'm committed to 211 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:58,200 and it's something I actually want to see through prior to my 212 00:09:58,200 --> 00:09:59,840 time leaving. I think that it's important. 213 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:03,800 It's something that was in the 2017 election manifesto and 214 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:05,760 something that we really need to complete and get done, 215 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:07,920 especially in this modern day and age. 216 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:09,040 Cool. Thank you. 217 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,440 It's interesting actually 'cause I think I've seen a few Facebook 218 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:17,920 posts by anonymous groups, independent, somebody supporting 219 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:18,800 independence. I can't. 220 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,880 And there's no idea who they are, no idea who's getting their 221 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:23,880 money from, you know, So I think. 222 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,320 These things I don't, I don't think it's a tenable situation. 223 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,840 The reality is that Bermuda has been the wild world W when it 224 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,240 comes to campaign financing and that's what it is. 225 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,600 It's one of the things that, you know, one likes to do as being, 226 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,720 you know, leader of the party in so far as, you know, raising 227 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:38,960 money and doing those type of things. 228 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:40,840 But I think that Bermuda can benefit from it. 229 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,080 And then from my perspective, it's something that I'm firmly 230 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,520 committed to because I think that, you know, if you want to 231 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:48,680 talk about things regarding legacy, the things that was 232 00:10:48,680 --> 00:10:51,760 inside of our 2017 platform were very forward-looking. 233 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:53,600 A number of those things were done. 234 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,360 Some of them were not done, like I'm still this, it was a sage 235 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,160 conversion recommendation about parliamentary oversight 236 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:01,840 committee and those things that ain't done. 237 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:04,040 We changed House standing orders, but those things have 238 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,640 not been put in place by the Speaker, even though me as 239 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:08,120 Minister of Finance is given funding. 240 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:11,560 And I think that it is a disservice to the accountability 241 00:11:11,560 --> 00:11:15,440 matrix of the legislature to hold the legislature to account. 242 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:17,160 So I hope we can press forward on those. 243 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,560 Things I was intrigued by you saying that actually, because I 244 00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:23,360 remember on a previous podcast I went through what I would like 245 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:25,720 to see from an MP if they were full time. 246 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:29,200 And then you came up in this, what the PLP came up in this 247 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,240 about reducing the number of seats. 248 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:34,960 I mean, have you any? I mean, you can't commit to I 249 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,520 suppose, but hey, can you give an idea of how many you've? 250 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,280 I don't, I don't have an idea what I think is important. 251 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:42,360 So let's put it in a broad context. 252 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:45,440 When I have the conversation with international business, I 253 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,240 think what is important to recognize is that Bermuda is an 254 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:52,360 extremely sophisticated international finance centre. 255 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,880 And the reality is that it is difficult to attract persons 256 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,360 into political service. And when we go over debates 257 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:01,680 around, you know, compensation and different things like that, 258 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:03,920 one of the arguments that is made is that I think it's 259 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,520 something that's broader in a conversation is that, you know, 260 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:08,320 there may be more appetite for that if there were a lower 261 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,040 number of MPs. But I also think exactly. 262 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,400 But I also think that there is. I also think that when we're 263 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,480 talking about, and I want to read it, additional options for 264 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,040 electoral reform because absolute balloting has never 265 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,400 been promised by the Progressive Labour Party in an election 266 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:23,880 manifesto. I just want to be clear about 267 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:25,560 that. But this time is the first time 268 00:12:25,560 --> 00:12:27,080 that it's appeared in our manifesto. 269 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,640 But we haven't amended the Parliamentary Election Act since 270 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,280 1978. And so from that particular 271 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:34,920 aspect, I think those are all the types of things we should 272 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,640 look at if we're going to be a leader in digital services. 273 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:39,760 Do we need to have more digital voting? 274 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,120 There's something in here that is that came from our members 275 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:44,800 about participatory budgeting. When we're talking about third 276 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,240 sector, you know, often times people like why are they getting 277 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:48,400 money? Why are they not getting money? 278 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,880 There are things that we can start to devolve to people 279 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,320 through technology and that's what this platform is looking 280 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:55,080 at. It's more of a forward-looking 281 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,520 view that came from our members. I think fewer MPs personally. 282 00:12:58,640 --> 00:12:59,840 It's great. You know, I've said this before, 283 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:01,920 I'm not working if anybody in that park myself so I can have 284 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,000 an opinion, but I think fewer MPs is a really good idea 285 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,040 because you know, I would like to see more oversight 286 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,080 committees. You know, I'd like to see JSC 287 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:13,280 meeting more often, meeting the pH parliamentary account. 288 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:16,240 Is it pH that currently stands for now meet those kind of 289 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,520 committees meeting more often and and more scrutiny of 290 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:21,600 legislation, it seems to be really important. 291 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,960 It, it is and if there's something that is a challenge is 292 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,440 that the I guess I don't want to say the part time nature because 293 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,560 I don't think that all people ask me full time, But I do 294 00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:35,200 believe that there is more strength that is needed for the 295 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,440 legislative branch because a lot of people don't understand the 296 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,640 way that this functions. The legislative branch's job is 297 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:43,600 to scrutinize the work of the executive. 298 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:45,960 When we committed to setting up parliamentary oversight 299 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:49,640 committees in 2017, we had a House standing orders changed in 300 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,000 2018. Those overnight site committees 301 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,920 have not actually ever met. They've been named once or twice 302 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,480 and it's a challenge and of course that is not something 303 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:00,760 that me as premier can direct. That is something that is in the 304 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,120 hands of the Speaker of the House and it's not for me to 305 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,840 level criticism. But it will work better if the 306 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,320 Legislature is actually doing that oversight work to help 307 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,360 enhance people's. Understanding the government has 308 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,080 helped their feet held to the fire by those kind of things. 309 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,920 Last time the constitution was amended was 2003 I think to make 310 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:20,920 the single seat constituencies major amendment. 311 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,320 Yeah, and I believe the UK at the time said they wouldn't 312 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,720 entertain any further changes outside of independence. 313 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:30,880 Do you think they would be more amenable now? 314 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,800 That position has changed. the United Kingdom has extended to 315 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:38,400 the overseas territories, you know, to state, you know, what 316 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,600 particular changes that you welcome to the Constitution. 317 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:44,120 And so that's not the case. I think there was actually a 318 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,240 subsequent constitutional amendment when it came, I think 319 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:49,360 afterwards, I don't remember what it was where there was 320 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:51,520 ombudsman or something else. I'm not sure if that's actually 321 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:55,720 inside the Constitution, but on the these matters, the United 322 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:57,800 Kingdom is laid it out. The view from the government is 323 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:02,000 that we welcome a clear and transparent process for that 324 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:04,200 because there are changes, whether it's these type of 325 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,720 things, there's modernization, changes in the in the terms of 326 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:09,680 reference for the Tax Reform Commission. 327 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,360 And I've made it clear in statements to Parliament that I 328 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,120 want to consider changes to our foundational documents being in 329 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,240 the constitution around protections to ensure that we 330 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,560 have, you know, almost balanced budget provisions so that the 331 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,160 money that can come from the corporate income tax, though it 332 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,880 may not be here forever, it can be saved and invested for future 333 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:27,360 uses. So I mean, there's upgrades that 334 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:29,760 can be done. We haven't really done a whole 335 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,920 lot of work in the constitution. Is that going to be a focus of 336 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,120 my next 18 months? I'm going to return to office? 337 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,760 I'm not going to say it is, but I think that and it is important 338 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,240 that that process be done, but I think it's vital because people 339 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,240 like all of this chatter around, you know, independent candidates 340 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,800 and there's not people in and all the rest and people don't 341 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,600 get to, you know, have a say. I think that it's really around 342 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,160 having a better functioning legislative branch that does 343 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,200 have those activities, that can get into this work, that can 344 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,080 form those committees so that people can actually know and 345 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,000 understand and actually come up with policies that can be 346 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,160 debated, that can be advanced by the executive. 347 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,440 So I feel that sometimes political parties have a 348 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,800 responsibility to be kind of thought leaders in our society 349 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,360 and sometimes to push the envelope. 350 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,160 I think it's called the Overton Window and UK dialogue. 351 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,960 And I see that in the PLP Constant platform, you have a 352 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,640 few pretty progressive things. One of them is going to be 353 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:31,640 modernizing abortion, for example, and that I imagine 354 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,360 there's a large socially conservative church contingent 355 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:39,440 within the Bermuda voting base. Do you how do you feel this is 356 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,160 going to play out? Well, I don't think it's a 357 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:42,240 question. It's going to play out. 358 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,960 I think that the platform is very clear. 359 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,320 It just basically says removing abortion from the Criminal Code. 360 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,480 I think that's kind of, I don't want to say Victorian, but I 361 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:53,760 think it's backwards and we'll find out what's replace it, 362 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:57,800 which balances all types of which balances, you know, the 363 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,320 needs and desires of the community, community. 364 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:01,800 But I think it's a clear statement. 365 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,520 It's something that's come from our members, something a lot of 366 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:06,440 people don't even know that it's contained the Criminal Code. 367 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,760 People go to it and say, you know, it's a matter for the 368 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:10,280 Minister of Health, for the Minister of Health, you know, 369 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:11,760 said actually it's not a matter for me. 370 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,359 It's actually a matter for the attorney general who is a 371 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:15,880 minister response for the Criminal Code. 372 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:20,480 So it's all about making sure. And so we have a act given 373 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,520 vibrant party, we have a research and platform committee 374 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,400 that has met on numerous times going over these things. 375 00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:29,040 And yes, I think it's important for thought leadership, but I 376 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,320 also think that it's important to push back against the silly 377 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,560 criticism that we get that these are just promises that aren't 378 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:37,960 ever put into place because that is not true. 379 00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:40,880 We can look back to 2017, the matters that were advanced to 380 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,840 the 2017 platform. We can look back to 2020 and see 381 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,040 the matters that were advanced to the 2020 platform. 382 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,320 It was everything completed? No, but a lot of those things 383 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:51,280 are still in train. Perfect example when we talk 384 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:53,480 about landlord tenant reform, people like, well, landlord 385 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:55,480 tenant reform is simple. It's almost as though people 386 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,760 think that changing legislation is a magic wand. 387 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:03,160 Landlord tenant reform will basically amend every single 388 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,040 lease that exists in the country. 389 00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:07,440 That is not something that you can just do in three or four 390 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:08,960 weeks. It is something that you have to 391 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,960 research and take into account. And so I think that it is 392 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,720 important that, you know, in some cases we've seen the 393 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,040 repercussions of sometimes rushing legislative processes as 394 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:19,080 well. And I think that's something 395 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:20,560 that the. To bring legislation back. 396 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,080 To and I think that's something that the one of the independent 397 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,280 candidates, Lorne Francis used to be parliamentary drafter was 398 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:27,240 raised. So I think it's important that 399 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:31,760 we discuss these issues as well. So next one I Jonathan, I was 400 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,960 going to jump in here. The other quite controversial 1 401 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,280 reviewing and amending consent legislation to equalise the age 402 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:40,040 of consent regardless of sex or gender. 403 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:41,960 It doesn't say that's up or down. 404 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:44,720 I mean, again, is Bermuda ready for that? 405 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,880 I. Tend, as Jonathan said, tend to 406 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:49,800 be socially. Concerned also I can, I, I mean, 407 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,120 I can't tell you to be completely honest. 408 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:54,760 No, I, I don't necessarily have that many thoughts. 409 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:58,280 And I say that from the perspective that this is the 410 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,720 platform that is given from us and that is what we need to 411 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:03,960 carry out. That is the way this platform 412 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,640 came to our central committee. Our central committee approved 413 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:07,920 this platform. It's going to be carried 414 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,120 forward. I do know that members of the 415 00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:14,840 LGBTQ population in Bermuda, they are somewhat unhappy about 416 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:18,040 the separate but equal approach to marriage equality with the 417 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:22,840 Civil Civil Partnership Act. Is that a settled issue for the 418 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,080 party as far as you're? Concerned, given that there's no 419 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:27,720 changes to what we have inside of our platform, then it's 420 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:31,760 settled for now, absolutely. Just one other thing before we 421 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,120 move on to other subjects, one other thing in the platform 422 00:19:34,120 --> 00:19:37,840 which I noticed policies to promote greater pay equity 423 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,520 between Bermudians and expats, including requiring businesses 424 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,800 to report detailed categorized renumeration data such as 425 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:46,520 housing allowances and other benefits. 426 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:49,480 Nothing wrong with that at all. Absolutely nothing wrong. 427 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,560 But of course, my guess is that that really effects 428 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:54,880 international business, especially when it comes to 429 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,160 things like housing allowance. And there's been a lot of chat 430 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,760 in the run up to the CIT and I'm still going on now about the 431 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,880 need to make sure Bermuda remains and increases its 432 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:11,800 competitiveness. Doesn't this denude that 433 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:15,000 competitiveness somewhat? Well, I don't agree and I think 434 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:16,680 that's not the best way of looking at it. 435 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,080 I think that our research and platform committee is 436 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:25,400 channelling the views of our membership to make sure that 437 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:27,520 there is fairness. I mean, I think that's what it 438 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,560 is. And in, in these are global 439 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:33,480 companies, they probably have to report these statistics where 440 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,920 they operate in the United States or operate in the United 441 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:37,240 Kingdom. So why should it be any 442 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,360 different? I agree, but the the the the the 443 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,080 feeling is that you want to equalize the pay, which is 444 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,160 saying nothing wrong with. Hold a second that it's not what 445 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:45,440 it says. Actually it seems to me. 446 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,920 OK, Well, no, I, I don't think that you should go further than 447 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,240 what the platform has said. And that is I do not go further 448 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,760 than what the platform has said. The platform has asked for this 449 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,280 and I think that it is important information on trying to find 450 00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,800 the page because I think it's it's vital that we make sure 451 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:01,760 that we put these things in context. 452 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:04,480 That's exactly what they are. So you get all this data and 453 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,160 show there's a huge discrepancy between experts and the medians. 454 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:08,200 You're not going to do anything with it. 455 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,760 Well, I think that's when there's another decision made in 456 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:12,840 the conversation discussion on what is the way to go. 457 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,800 But let's take an example. Let's take an example of what 458 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,200 Minister Jason Hayward, who will most likely be the one who's 459 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,720 responsible for executing that particular aspect of the 460 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:22,640 platform. Minister Jason Hayward 461 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,560 identifies a problem, comes up with policy proposals, puts 462 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:28,720 those things out to consultation, gets wide 463 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,640 consultation and feedback and then comes back and then decides 464 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,760 the pause position, puts that policy position out and then 465 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,000 goes to the parliament, debates this particular matter. 466 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,480 And then the government has a policy position that is blessed 467 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,120 by the parliament. That is the way that this stuff 468 00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:43,440 should work. And so I don't believe that we 469 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:47,400 should read into what it may or may not be because the fact is 470 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,320 that I know that many companies don't actually discriminate 471 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,400 between housing allowances, between what's provided to 472 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,840 reviewed as a non Bermudians. And so that is more of a minutes 473 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,440 and Omer that it's all, you know, non Burgundians don't get 474 00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,760 things that Burgundians do because I think that persons 475 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,720 companies are recognizing that in order to be competitive, in 476 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,440 order to retain your staff, you need to give these type of 477 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,560 benefits as well. So I think it's important to 478 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:11,400 have the information rather than speculating on what it may or 479 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,120 may not be. Well, I'll be interested to see 480 00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:15,400 what happens when, if there is a big gap. 481 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:17,640 See what you come to, Jonathan you. 482 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,640 There is a big gap. I think that's didn't I say if I 483 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:22,280 thought I'd, yeah. You said when? 484 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,400 On page 32 of the platform. Thank you for helping you got 485 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,760 page. There's a bit there concerning 486 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,040 cannabis cannabis reform, going to read it out. 487 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,680 Reviewing and updating cannabis related guidance, regulations 488 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,560 and oversight to strike a balance between the lipnets of 489 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,720 the UK framework and safe, responsible adult cannabis use. 490 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,640 Now we did have some businesses that opened up in the last few 491 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,080 years selling cannabis related products or hemp products I 492 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,640 should say. And there seemed to be a change 493 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,520 in the policy which led to many of these businesses shutting 494 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,760 down, causing them a loss of massive investments in the 495 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:02,920 business. But no one has really clarified 496 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,640 what changed in the policy. No law changed so. 497 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:08,640 I don't think there was a change in the policy. 498 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,760 That's what they've said, that there was a change in the 499 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,240 policy. I think that when things are 500 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,320 challenged, they are analyzed and the law is very clear on 501 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,600 what is hemp and what is not hemp. 502 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:24,480 The law is clear that hemp is the actual flower, the that 503 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,880 product. So those things are the actual 504 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:28,560 product. The other challenge that we have 505 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,080 is, and this has come from a space and we have to look at 506 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,600 this in a broad base. We have to look at this from the 507 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,520 perspective that we understand the Progressive Labour Party's 508 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,480 position as identified in our 2020 election manifest. 509 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:44,400 So where we were blessed to go forward with a having a 510 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,120 regulated cannabis market in Bermuda. 511 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,960 That was the view in the perspective that was law was 512 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,360 passed twice. It was turned back by the United 513 00:23:52,360 --> 00:23:54,600 Trust, by the Senate, then secondly by the United Kingdom. 514 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,400 So what we hold a second, hold a second. 515 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,800 What I've said is that we are going to write, I said this 516 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,280 publicly, that now that there's a new foreign secretary, because 517 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,800 it was turned down in Liz Trust's last in office, we did 518 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,120 say that we are going to write to the foreign secretary to see 519 00:24:08,120 --> 00:24:11,360 if he wants to reconsider this. But in addition, on this 520 00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:14,360 particular matter, I think it's a recognition because I remember 521 00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:16,800 the conversations on this and our research and platform 522 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:18,720 committee was like, why hasn't this advanced? 523 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,120 And I explained to them the reasons. 524 00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:23,000 I said, hey, I mean, we pass it, the UK's turn it down. 525 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,760 And so they decided that we should have another go of it. 526 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:29,040 And they've said, you know, within the limits of the UK 527 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,160 framework and safe, responsible at all cannabis. 528 00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:33,920 On the issue which you're speaking about, again, going 529 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,600 back to it, there was not so much a change in policy. 530 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,000 I think it was when some persons were challenged on the policy, 531 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,560 it was like, oh, the chamber was like, well, this is actually how 532 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,080 it's supposed to be applied. And that has led to the 533 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:46,360 challenges of which we're facing. 534 00:24:46,360 --> 00:24:48,680 And it's been, it's been messy and it hasn't been good because 535 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,400 we understand the policy position of the government. 536 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,240 The policy position of the government is that cannabis use 537 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:58,000 should be discouraged. However, we do not believe that 538 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,240 it is the best approach to put significant criminal resource, 539 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:02,600 etcetera. I believe it should be treated 540 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,400 as a public health issue rather than a criminal issue. 541 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:06,760 I'm interviewing the new governor next week, so if you 542 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:08,360 want to send me some questions to ask him. 543 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:11,960 I'm sure the new governor will have a lot of fun over the last 544 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,640 few days. Going back to the question about 545 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:19,120 the party being a thought leader for the country, one of the key 546 00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:21,980 objectives in the PLP constitution is self 547 00:25:21,980 --> 00:25:26,560 determination and independence. For since 2020 you've had 30 548 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,280 seats in parliament and yet independence is being almost a 549 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,000 naughty word. Nothing is really being made 550 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:34,960 clear to advance that. Goal. 551 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,720 And that was the opportunity with such a majority, yeah. 552 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,680 So I think that that would not be factual. 553 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:47,160 Let's start in 2020. We created a Minister of Legal 554 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:52,360 Affairs and Constitutional reform, and no, it was not. 555 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,680 It was specifically around the issues of looking at our 556 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,360 constitutional relationship with the United Kingdom, examining 557 00:25:57,360 --> 00:25:59,800 what that constitutional ratio was and the options. 558 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,560 But I also think that it's important, and this is something 559 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,640 that I hold dear. You don't spring things on the 560 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,040 electorate. You get what I'm saying. 561 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:08,720 You don't just say, hey, guess what? 562 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,400 All of a sudden we're going to do this before the election. 563 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,240 I made it very clear that independence is not part, and I 564 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,640 call it sovereignty, a part of our five year plan. 565 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,080 That was not, but I think it was important to discuss what are 566 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,480 our constitutional options because a lot of times these 567 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,880 things are held in uninformed debate where people just say, 568 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:28,640 oh, it's this, oh, it's that, oh, it's that. 569 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,520 And that is a particular challenge. 570 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,960 And so I don't accept the perspective that you get that 571 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,840 nothing was done. We did produce a report. 572 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:38,960 There was public discussion on that. 573 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,680 There was public consultation on people's views and thoughts 574 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,240 around that particular matter. Did those matters progress 575 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,760 further so we can actually have a further discussion in the 576 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:48,040 House to assemble on it? No. 577 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:49,880 Do I think that we should? Absolutely. 578 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,480 But I think that it's important that we hold faith with what we 579 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,720 put in front of the election. I mercilessly criticize the 1 580 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,280 Bermuda Alliance for doing exactly the opposite of what was 581 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,560 stated inside of their platform. When we go to our cabinet 582 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,960 meetings on Tuesday, the platform is in the center of the 583 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,320 table every week. It is our guiding document over 584 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,320 five years of governance and so it is not in keeping. 585 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,040 If someone wants to take a different tack than what is 586 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,160 inside of their manifesto, then it is right and proper for them 587 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,000 to go back to the people, say this is what I want to do and 588 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:25,480 ask the people to bless and endorse it. 589 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,800 So basically what I'm hearing is the PLP remains committed to 590 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:30,320 independence, but not at this time. 591 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,480 Well, I think it would say that it's in our, it's in our 592 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,080 sovereignty is in our platform, not in a platform. 593 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:38,520 Sovereignty is in our Constitution. 594 00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:43,680 Sovereignty is in our mission and vision statement. 595 00:27:44,120 --> 00:27:48,080 And the constitution of the party says that the Progressive 596 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,920 Labour Party will serve as a vehicle to move Bermuda towards 597 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,800 nationhood and developing the necessary items as a precursor 598 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,440 to that. And if you look at what we've 599 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,600 done over the years in so far as making sure one person, one man, 600 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,040 one vote of equal value, strengthening our system, I 601 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,920 think when you were in a position where you are now an 602 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,920 international financial center, might soon, you know, within 10 603 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,120 years have a sovereign wealth fund and also have a debt free 604 00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:15,520 country where it can have been a different position, a different 605 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,080 view. And we have to continue to press 606 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,000 along while also informing persons of why it's important. 607 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,920 You know, my feelings on sovereignty, my feelings on 608 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,160 sovereignty have never changed because I have lived the 609 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,400 experience of being the Premier and Minister of Finance and the 610 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,160 United Kingdom taking an absolutely opposite position to 611 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,000 what has been requested by the country and our international 612 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,080 business community. That happens often and anytime 613 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,680 meet with international business community, I remind them that 614 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,000 sovereignty isn't around all those boogeymen and all the rest 615 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,160 and that's why it is important to have the conversation, 616 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,000 discussion. I will say one other thing is 617 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,600 it's a rather topical issue. The Progressive Labour Party's 618 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,520 position has been clear since 2013 and it's something that I 619 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,120 think people should also consider around that the 620 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,440 Progressive Labour Party is against the granting of status 621 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:06,320 to persons until we can actually grant citizenship. 622 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,280 You're running out of time. You said you've got to get back 623 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,360 to see your constituents tonight and there are a couple of 624 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,120 questions. OK, well let's go for another 5 625 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:14,000 minutes. OK, cool. 626 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,400 You're very, very gracious. Record number of candidates, 627 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,800 huge number of independents. Under this electoral system. 628 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:23,680 Yeah, huge number of independents. 629 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:24,840 What did he put that down to? What? 630 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,400 Did I put it down? To yeah, I, well, I put in this 631 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,520 phrase right. I I asked that to Jerry and 632 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:31,800 Richardson, leader of the IBA. He said it showed the frailty of 633 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,880 the PLPI, counted it by saying hang on, it shows the frailty. 634 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,720 It's clearly the frailty main position. 635 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,480 I would say it's the frailty of both of all mainstream parties 636 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,320 that they want people want change. 637 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,040 Well, let me put it this way. I think that a lot of this is 638 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:49,280 manufactured because it is. Oh, come on, Jeremy, you used to 639 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,280 be a reporter. You know that people are out 640 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,920 there throwing money at people to put their names in to try to 641 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:55,960 achieve result. That's what's happening on the 642 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,120 doorstep. I got a report today about money 643 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,080 being thrown at people. All this type of stuff is people 644 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:07,520 have tried multiple ways to try to defeat the Progressive Labour 645 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:09,360 Party. We can go back to it. 646 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:13,640 We can go back to 2012, secret plans, dissolution, form back, 647 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,600 come back together again, all types of different different 648 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,600 ways and avenues and attempt to do so. 649 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,240 We need to get back to a space in this country where we are 650 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,600 debating policies, where we are actually looking at the 651 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,480 policies. There is no coherent policy 652 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:32,240 platform from independent candidates whatsoever. 653 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:33,680 Well, that's the nature of independence. 654 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,160 I've got it. But, but so so so we are now all 655 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,040 of a sudden talking about how we're going to discuss changing 656 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,080 a system or looking at something else. 657 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,280 It doesn't make sense. Premier, I want to go back to 658 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:44,720 that. Go ahead. 659 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,160 You say it's only because he's being bankrolled. 660 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,720 In many ways there are. Oh, come on. 661 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:51,720 So it wouldn't happen one of the. 662 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,040 Wealthiest person in the country is behind this. 663 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,360 We've got that. Everyone knows that. 664 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,160 I mean, it's something we don't speak about because he's a 665 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,160 national hero. But come on, let's be clear that 666 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:05,400 this is this type of stuff. And So what we see is that we do 667 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:09,160 not have debates on policies persons because the statutes 668 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:13,200 they hold are not questioned on the actual policy perspectives 669 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,240 and completely false information. 670 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,800 John Swan goes around and saying international business leaving 671 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,160 everything collapsing when his building is now fully rented for 672 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,680 the first time since its construction. 673 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:25,760 Come on now. I mean. 674 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,440 This, this is this is just manufactured stuff. 675 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,680 When, when? So we're clear, no one is 676 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,680 actually talking about the policy differences that have 677 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:42,440 been put forward by the parties that have the chance to form a 678 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,120 government. And the reality is there are 679 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:49,960 only two come tomorrow or sorry, come Wednesday, there is either 680 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,440 going to be a Progressive Labour Party government, yeah, an Oba 681 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,880 or an Oba government. Those are the things now. 682 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,680 Coalition. People have to win enough seats 683 00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,760 for that and I do not believe that it is likely that 684 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:01,920 Independence Oregon other parts are going to breakthrough. 685 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,440 That is the view. It may change and if that's the 686 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:05,960 thing, then we can have a different conversation. 687 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:07,320 The kind of message you're getting back from your 688 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,320 influence. But but what? 689 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:14,000 But what I will say is what I said on Saturday at our rally, 690 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,560 what I said today in our press conference, that should the 691 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,160 Progressive Labour Party be successful and have the majority 692 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,560 of seats, I will happily reach out to some independent 693 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,240 candidates and also to the FDM because I actually believe that 694 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:31,400 some persons have put forward decent policy positions that 695 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:35,640 deserve examination. No party has monopoly on good 696 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:36,920 ideas. I happen to think that our 697 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,440 platform is excellent and has many good ideas that we can 698 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:42,560 carry forward. But there's other views and 699 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,200 suggestions that we've seen. And I think that it's important 700 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,000 because if there's one message that we're hearing from the 701 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,960 country is that they want unity. And so from our perspective, 702 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:52,360 we're going to make sure to advance that. 703 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,520 Now, you mentioned there's not been any debates. 704 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,480 A couple weeks ago, I believe you announced that you were up 705 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:02,240 for a debate and the Oba leader said he was up for it as well. 706 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,400 And here we are, the eve of the election, and it hasn't 707 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,080 happened. Are you willing to speak about 708 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:08,960 that? I mean, that's been a very long 709 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:10,840 and complex process. What I can say is that there's 710 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:15,560 been no shortage of many numerous candidate forums both 711 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,480 online and in person around the country about the thing. 712 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,240 Throughout numerous press conferences, numerous 713 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,960 engagements, canvassing, platform release, etcetera, 714 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,240 people have the opportunity to judge what is being put forward. 715 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,280 Am I disappointed that we didn't have the opportunity to go ahead 716 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,640 and combat the falsehoods in a live national audience? 717 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,760 Yes. But we've also been doing that 718 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,600 on the doorstep and making sure that it's clear we have come 719 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,640 through a very difficult time. It's like people forget that 720 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,240 four or five years ago, we're in the midst of global pandemic. 721 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,480 We have come through a very difficult time. 722 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,640 We have come into a space where we have balanced the budget. 723 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,640 We have come to a space where we are about to get significant 724 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,960 additional revenue, record number of Bermudians working in 725 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,800 international business, record employment in international 726 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,960 business, tourism that is recovering and with the fact 727 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,360 that we are beginning to make sure that we are having the 728 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,120 investments to build up our infrastructure for the future. 729 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,560 If you look at, but I'm saying if you look at other countries, 730 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,320 Jeremy, how many other countries can we can talk about that have 731 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,120 balanced budgets? Look at the United States, look 732 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,159 at Canada, they'll seriously look at the United Kingdom. 733 00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:21,199 Look, you have to be realistic. And so meanwhile, we have been 734 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:26,480 doing this while, while you've cut taxes for 86% of workers 735 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:28,760 while. This is this is a speech I can 736 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:30,360 repeat. But I understand, but, but this 737 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,719 is the reality because remember, this is a debate. 738 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,239 The 1 Bermuda Alliance says no, don't do that. 739 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,639 Companies will leave if you increase taxes on persons. 740 00:34:40,679 --> 00:34:43,199 But I've got it, let the work. But they were wrong. 741 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:48,880 That's important. We cut taxes for 86% of workers 742 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,400 in this country, increased it on the higher earners. 743 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,520 The companies did not leave, they hired more. 744 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,080 We've balanced the budget and we're pressing ahead. 745 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,760 So it's important to say that. OK, I've got one more question. 746 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:06,320 You go. One, maybe two OK elections 747 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:07,440 tomorrow. What's your prediction? 748 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,120 I have no prediction. I submit to the will of the 749 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:11,840 voters. That's a very political answer. 750 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:13,440 And it's the truth. I don't, I don't give 751 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:14,440 predictions. I can tell you. 752 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:16,280 I can tell you what I said the last time around. 753 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,560 Yeah, it's the last time around. When someone asked me at 754 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:23,720 headquarters, I said I would be disappointed if we didn't get 755 00:35:23,720 --> 00:35:25,760 28, but I'll be perfectly happy with 22. 756 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,200 And I will say the same thing. I'll be perfectly happy with 22 757 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:30,960 seats. Will you be happy with 21? 758 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:33,520 That's fine. I mean a witness, a win. 759 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:35,760 Win 19. No, A witness, a win. 760 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,880 I seem a little bit difficult. 19 doesn't seem like once ago, 761 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,840 but do I expect it will be that low? 762 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:41,560 No, but I'm not going to make a prediction. 763 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,120 I know that our candidates. Because he didn't know what. 764 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,840 I'm saying, but our candidates have worked incredibly hard 765 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,160 during this election campaign. We've made sure that we focus on 766 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,120 the issues that matter to the voters inside of this country, 767 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,400 and we've laid out realistic plans on how to address the 768 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,000 concerns that people are facing. And we're the only party that 769 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:06,760 has laid out realistic plans to address the challenges that are 770 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,840 being faced. And it is also important to 771 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:13,120 remember this is not about what any happened last week or what 772 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,640 may have happened last month. The government that is elected 773 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:16,960 is the government for five years. 774 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,120 And what we have shown is that when tested with international 775 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,240 crises, we are prepared to respond. 776 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,320 And we know that the world is uncertain and no one knows 777 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:26,400 what's going to the next five years. 778 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:27,560 Will. Break 11 more question. 779 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,280 And I've got to put it to you because it's only fair. 780 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,720 Actually, when I interviewed Jerry and Richardson of the 781 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:33,760 Yeah, he said he called you a showman. 782 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,520 And I looked at the definition of this as a person who produces 783 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,040 or present shows as a profession, especially the 784 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,960 proprietor, manager or an MC of a circus fair or other variety 785 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:44,480 show. So are you a showman? 786 00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:51,000 I would say that I have been bless with the ability to 787 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,560 clearly communicate a message. You have that but but what I 788 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,560 would say is that anyone who knows me knows that I work 789 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,560 incredibly hard. I actually think that is an 790 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:00,640 offensive. Well, that's why no hold a 791 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:02,360 second. I think it's offensive and I 792 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,400 went to school with Jarian because I will when we're in 793 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,280 Parliament, Jarian isn't even read up on the items and I said 794 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:10,960 that's not correct here. Look at the law. 795 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:12,720 They ask questions. I'm like, how are you a 796 00:37:12,720 --> 00:37:16,840 legislature legislator and you do not know what the law says. 797 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,560 I spend my time reading legislation, I in my time 798 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,040 researching things and other things. 799 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,520 So yes, do I have the ability to communicate? 800 00:37:23,720 --> 00:37:25,960 Absolutely. But here is the reality. 801 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,920 We are communicating policies that have been formulated that 802 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,160 work and make sense when everyone in this country said or 803 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,400 when the international business community, when the 1 Bermuda 804 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,320 Alliance, when other person said John Swan as well, don't raise 805 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,600 taxes on high earners to cut taxes for working people in the 806 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:44,040 midst of a cost of living crisis. 807 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:48,520 We pressed ahead and we were vindicated because we have 808 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:53,080 increased number of jobs and we have a balanced budget due to 809 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,000 the fact that we rebalance this tax system. 810 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,680 Whereas working people, and I have to leave it here, it is 811 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,440 important. People who are making $48,000 a 812 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,600 year, this is like a cashier working at marketplace. 813 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:09,920 When we came into office, we're paying $2280 a year in taxes. 814 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,680 Today they're paying 240. That's $2000 more in that 815 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,720 individual's pockets. That is a real change. 816 00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:19,400 I've got one last question last time. 817 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,400 So the other weekend I I picked up the PLP platform. 818 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,680 I was reading it in preparation for the podcast and I was on the 819 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:31,040 bus and someone told me reading the PLP platform and they said 820 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,600 to me the PLP has not done anything for workers and they've 821 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,080 not done anything for black people in Bermuda. 822 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,920 Now, I think that's objectively mistaken if you look at the 823 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,840 statistics, but there's definitely a feeling of some 824 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:44,600 people that they've been left behind. 825 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:45,680 How do? You. 826 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:47,920 Sorry, just to add to that, yeah, I agree with that, 827 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:48,960 actually. Something I'm glad you were 828 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:50,800 reminded of it because he seemed to disconnect. 829 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,160 And I said this to Jason Haywood when I, when I interviewed him, 830 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,800 the people on the street, if you like, are not feeling the, the 831 00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:58,960 economic buzz, They're not feeling the economic growth. 832 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,880 You know, you, you can see complaints all the time about 833 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:03,720 the price of food and stuff like that. 834 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:05,640 It's this disconnect between what you're saying and what 835 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:07,960 people are saying on the street. I would say that it's not a 836 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,120 disconnect. It's not a disconnect. 837 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:14,200 We understand that people are hurting and it's a difficult. 838 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:15,680 We told me, we told me a showman. 839 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:20,120 I'm sorry, Jarian. No, Jarian, it is a difficult 840 00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:24,520 political message to communicate that if we didn't take the 841 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,800 actions of which we've taken, things would be more difficult. 842 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:32,240 But that's the reality. We do not have the ability to 843 00:39:32,240 --> 00:39:34,200 control everything that happens globally. 844 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,160 We can't control global oil prices. 845 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,680 We can't control global gas prices. 846 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,640 We can't. We cannot control or global fuel 847 00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,520 prices or sorry, global or food import prices. 848 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:52,560 But what we can do is use our tax code to try to bring relief 849 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:57,000 to the persons where we can. And so trust me, if you go into 850 00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:01,520 a grocery store, you will say I'm not feeling it and I get it. 851 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:05,240 But that's why our platform is very targeted. 852 00:40:05,240 --> 00:40:08,920 It starts on the matter, talking about affordability, talking 853 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,040 about housing. But right on the next page, when 854 00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,160 it goes into food, it says implementing fair pricing 855 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,160 control and transparency measures to ensure that the 856 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,800 benefits of government 0. Support duties on essential 857 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,040 goods are passed directly to consumers. 858 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,320 Those are the types of things. And so that's a major step when 859 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,880 you start talking about what is prayer, pricing control and 860 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:31,720 transparency mean, and persons will argue, well, why I didn't 861 00:40:31,720 --> 00:40:34,480 do that before, That is not something that you go in 862 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:36,600 lightly. You want the electorate to say 863 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,440 we want you to go ahead and do that because we want you to 864 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,520 respond to conditions. I'm just wondering if people 865 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,040 will see that as empty words. But why? 866 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:45,600 Because you're just not feeling it. 867 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,400 Look it under the grocery shop and it costs $400. 868 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:52,760 But, but so I can meet, so I can say something on this empty 869 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,920 words cannot be applied to what is being done in the future. 870 00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:01,800 So persons can state that if we are not delivering what we have 871 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,200 stated here, then it is empty words. 872 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,120 But what they cannot state is what we have pledged in our 873 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,280 previous platforms on these particular matters are empty 874 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,600 words because we've delivered many of them. 875 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,840 I think you've been very kind with your time. 876 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,680 Yes, I'm way over time. I am to keep talking so we 877 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:20,840 probably. Thank you very much for joining 878 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:22,960 us. I'm going to be doing a live 879 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:26,000 election like with Bernie's. Hope you'll be able to talk at 880 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,080 some stage, I don't know how. That maybe if you all send 881 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,640 someone to PLP headquarters, I think they're setting home media 882 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:32,120 tanks. We'll figure out, but hopefully 883 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,280 I'm I'm just exhausted. I bet, and I think on that note, 884 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,560 I will say thank you very much indeed and and. 885 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:39,760 By the way, congratulations on the podcast. 886 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:41,120 Thank you. Sorry that you lost your Co host 887 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:45,960 but welcome. Jonathan. 888 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,880 More than more than brilliant replacement. 889 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:53,040 As I mentioned, I will be on Bernie's tomorrow. 890 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:54,640 It's Tuesday for the election night special. 891 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,600 And on Wednesday, we're coming back with another podcast to 892 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:00,760 kind of have a look at the fallout from the election. 893 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,840 I think Curtis Dickinson and Mike Fahey will hopefully be 894 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,000 joining me on that day. After that, I am taking a break. 895 00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:10,040 So you'll hear from me about a week after that. 896 00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,840 So until then, goodbye. And have a great, great 897 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:14,160 election. Remember to vote tomorrow. 898 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,000 Yes, turn out. Vote.