1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:04,440 Welcome to another edition of The News Navigators with me, 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:07,160 Jeremy Deacon. And me, Jonathan Starling. 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:13,800 We're back with a podcast special because the Oba saga 4 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,320 shows no signs of slowing down, so we thought it was worth 5 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,680 having another chat. This is on the back of the 6 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:23,880 caucus meeting last night. That's Friday. 7 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:27,120 We were recording this on Saturday where there was quite a 8 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:31,480 substantial majority in favour of electing Ben Smith. 9 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:33,880 There's a leader of the party and the leader of the 10 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:38,120 Opposition, which means now that Robert King is neither. 11 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,120 Thoughts Jonathan? Tea leaves, What are they saying 12 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:46,080 to you? From the Oba members, the lay 13 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:50,080 members that I have spoken to, a lot of them are still very upset 14 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:54,640 about the situation. They they think that it is a 15 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:58,160 counterproductive move by the OBAMPS. 16 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:02,000 They don't understand what their issues were with Mr. King. 17 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:04,760 No one's really articulated. They're like, what leadership 18 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:06,200 issues? He was doing a good job. 19 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,880 We wanted him to be more out there, but we understand he was 20 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,240 having his hand tied by the other M PS That's just what I'm 21 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:17,200 hearing from Oba members. There's a general upsetness and 22 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,320 anger about what has happened. They feel that their vote has 23 00:01:20,320 --> 00:01:26,840 been ripped up by the OBAMPS and they feel that they are being 24 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,200 denied a say in how this is going. 25 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,520 That someone caught it a stitch up to me when I was talking to 26 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,320 them this morning, they said this whole thing is a stitch up. 27 00:01:35,320 --> 00:01:40,000 We've been denied our voice. And I think that narrative is 28 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:46,160 being fed a lot by a lack of information coming from Ben 29 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:47,920 Smith, in particular, the new leader. 30 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,000 If you look at the the answers that he gave in a press 31 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,200 conference last night, which I think must have been after the 32 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,040 caucus meeting, he was saying that it was up to Robert King 33 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:02,360 for him to come in and heal things. 34 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:07,520 He did those things. He says caucus members did not 35 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:12,560 appreciate that. It wasn't the behaviour that we 36 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,960 wanted. But throughout that press 37 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:20,760 conference, he didn't elaborate on what those issues were. 38 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,200 What does he have to heal? He did those things. 39 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:26,200 We don't know what those things were. 40 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,560 We don't appreciate it. Well, why not? 41 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:34,280 And I think the problem with it that their lack of candor, their 42 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:38,440 lack of honesty, and I'm going to come on to Bo. 43 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:42,280 What I mean about that is fuelling all this speculation. 44 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,080 Now, what I mean by honesty is I'm sitting, as people know by 45 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:49,640 now, I'm in the UK and Keir Starmer, UK Prime Minister, has 46 00:02:49,640 --> 00:02:52,440 been put through the mill over the Mandelson affair. 47 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,880 And I was listening to a radio interview with a former advisor 48 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,720 of Tony Blair, former UK Prime Minister, and he would say a 49 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:03,280 comms advisor and he would say, look, you should be honest as 50 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:08,560 far as you can be. There seems to be a lack of 51 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,320 honesty in terms of coming out with a full story. 52 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,720 If they came out with a full story and the message would 53 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,200 write, they would help to put this to bed. 54 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:22,040 Their answers aren't good enough, so it fuels constant 55 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:27,120 speculation. Yeah, I mean, when I heard those 56 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:33,720 Ben Smith's comments after the the caucus last night, my 57 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,920 interpretation was he was talking about the interviews 58 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:41,520 that Robert King had given earlier prior to the caucus to 59 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,240 both the Royal Gazette and to Bermuda Broadcasting. 60 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,560 That's only one. Reception. 61 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,240 Wanting that. There were two interviews and I 62 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:53,200 think they happened yesterday morning or yesterday afternoon. 63 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,600 That's Friday afternoon before the caucus. 64 00:03:55,800 --> 00:04:00,280 My my reading of what Ben Switzer was saying that this was 65 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,560 ongoing issues. Well, I mean, this comes down to 66 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:05,520 our what? You were just saying we don't 67 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,440 know what they're referring to. It's a lack of clarity and it 68 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:12,320 fuels the story and it fuels the unrest. 69 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:16,760 I think of those people, those friends of yours who are UBP 70 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:21,560 members because they don't know. I mean, one thing that struck me 71 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:23,880 is, you know, obviously we're all human, right? 72 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,880 We have human emotions. Robert King, when he was giving 73 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:30,240 his interview, especially to the Royal Gazette, you could you 74 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:35,160 could see the emotions flowing through him as he was processing 75 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:38,320 what has happened to him. It was a big shock to his 76 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:39,840 system. He was a bit more composed for 77 00:04:39,840 --> 00:04:42,680 the Bermuda broadcasting one, I think 'cause he already got the 78 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:47,360 IT out of his system. But at the same time, you can 79 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,920 see Ben Smith and even Scott Pearman when after the swearing 80 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,360 in the Government House and they spoke outside, well, not 81 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,200 Government House, the acting Government House. 82 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:00,560 Yeah, yeah, yeah. They, you could see the motions 83 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,400 with them as well. But they're very defensive and 84 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:05,560 almost aggressively defensive. Agree. 85 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:07,120 We're not going to take questions. 86 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:11,240 We did this for democracy. Now an Oba member said to me 87 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,600 that they found these comments highly ironic, saying that you 88 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,360 did this for democracy by ripping up democracy. 89 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,320 Exactly by stating honesty. And transparency and discipline 90 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,720 when they themselves did the exact opposite of. 91 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,440 It that was hugely ironic, Yeah. Yeah. 92 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:30,480 Nobody really picked up on that, I think. 93 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,480 But you're right, it was heavy with irony. 94 00:05:32,840 --> 00:05:35,320 East Asia Palace coup which is not democratic. 95 00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:42,120 Not, not good discipline. And I mean, I mean, we, we had 96 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:46,880 Robert King on the podcast last year around November. 97 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,040 And at that time, one reason why we had him on was because we 98 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:55,000 were aware of resistance he was facing within the party 99 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,520 following his. Yeah, it was quite clear at that 100 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:00,440 time there were factions. Yeah. 101 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,360 And our interpretation of the time was there was an attempted 102 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:08,080 kind of palace coup at that moment, but for whatever reason, 103 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:13,400 they were able to broker like a a temporary peace, which 104 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:18,640 obviously didn't last for for much longer after that. 105 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:21,400 Well, they should have got Donald Trump in that. 106 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,360 They should break her a piece. Yeah, being sarcastic. 107 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,880 Being sarcastic, Sorry. But the reason I mentioned that 108 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:31,560 is because Robert King in his interviews with the RG and 109 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,840 Bermuda Broadcasting yesterday, he didn't speak directly, but he 110 00:06:35,840 --> 00:06:39,640 was asked if he was facing resistance of people who were 111 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:43,400 not answering his phone calls or not responding to emails. 112 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,800 And he didn't say yes clearly, but he he gave a strong 113 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:48,320 indication that that was the case it. 114 00:06:48,840 --> 00:06:53,040 It was clearly a yes, yeah, in a roundabout way. 115 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:55,480 And this, this, this fuels what we've heard, hasn't it, that 116 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:59,480 people were not taking his phone calls or replying to his emails 117 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:01,840 almost from day one after the election? 118 00:07:02,280 --> 00:07:08,040 And so from my opinion, he his hands were tied almost from the 119 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:09,760 his election. Yeah. 120 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:14,240 Every time he tried to be leadership or to do what his job 121 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:17,720 was supposed to be, he faced resistance and wasn't able to do 122 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,400 that. Whether his ideas were good and 123 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,200 it was a good idea to resist it, I don't know. 124 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,040 I don't. I can't say neither of you nor 125 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:28,160 has. Been made public. 126 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:28,920 Has he? We don't know. 127 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:33,600 Yeah, From the outside it just looks like people were upset 128 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:37,760 that they didn't win and kind of picked up the ball and went home 129 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:41,640 in a sense. Whether that's the case, I don't 130 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:43,440 know. That's just how it looks from 131 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,960 the outside. Well, again, it comes back to my 132 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,040 point that they're not releasing the information that would put 133 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:52,920 this story to bed, so it's going to carry on looking like that. 134 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,560 Now, you've heard, and it was reporting The Gazette as well, 135 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,080 that the leadership election was decided by 17 votes. 136 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,720 Now that's fine, it looks close, but we don't know how many 137 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,520 people voted. Yeah, I was trying to figure 138 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:09,760 that out because the way the Oba voting system works as I 139 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:13,320 understand their constitution is they have A1 member one vote 140 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:17,720 system. So I don't know how many members 141 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:21,920 the OBAF per. Who were present at the meeting? 142 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,480 Right. And we've heard that the the 143 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:28,400 election where Robert King was elected on September the 6th was 144 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:32,919 a large turn out, Whistler's turn out 105 hundred. 145 00:08:32,919 --> 00:08:34,080 I have no idea. You don't know. 146 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:39,600 So I don't know if 17 doesn't sound like a big margin, but it 147 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,360 might be. I don't know because 100 votes 148 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,480 has a. 100 votes in the 17 becomes a big margin. 149 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,560 Yeah, exactly. So I don't. 150 00:08:49,560 --> 00:08:51,680 Know. If that even if that's the case 151 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:58,040 and a win is still a win, mean exactly Mr. Smith is in sports. 152 00:08:58,680 --> 00:08:59,960 He's our national swimming coach. 153 00:08:59,960 --> 00:09:02,880 I believe he understands a win is a win. 154 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:07,520 And. I I raise that because Mr. Smith 155 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:12,840 made a big song and dance in his election campaign for leadership 156 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:14,560 that he was a, you know, a good sportsmanship. 157 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:18,440 So I'm just raising that because I'm like, OK, you made a song 158 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:22,880 and dance about that, but have you demonstrated that I wouldn't 159 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,680 even bring it up? And he's probably never going to 160 00:09:25,680 --> 00:09:27,280 come on our podcast now because I said that. 161 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:30,000 No, no. But it's like, it's like one of 162 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,720 his swimmers losing by 17 seconds and saying that wasn't a 163 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,920 fair result. I mean the the sportsmanship 164 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,560 response is to be like, OK, I lost. 165 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,480 I will learn from this and I will work hard and train and do 166 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:49,600 better and in the meantime I will be a good team player and 167 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,480 help my team help the winner be the best leader he can be. 168 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:58,560 Yes, that's the way I would have interpreted that. 169 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,840 I I agree 100%. And this is also what I've been 170 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:06,720 hearing from a lot of Oba members. 171 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:10,240 So it's like, it's me saying this, I happen to agree with the 172 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,160 Oba members on this, but I'm hearing this from people on the 173 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:17,080 street. So it's it's interesting. 174 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:19,840 It's interesting. Sorry. 175 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:25,200 What I'm hearing a lot is people are asking me or indirectly 176 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:29,440 asking me, what did he do? People say what did he do? 177 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,840 He won when he shouldn't. He won when he shouldn't have. 178 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,200 Yeah, Yeah. That's basically the answer I'm 179 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,640 giving. I say, well, as far as me and 180 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:43,160 Jonathan are aware, it's didn't like his leadership and people 181 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:44,520 are going. Is that it? 182 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,080 They were thinking, well, he must have stolen from the Oba. 183 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,320 He must have done something egregious against the Oba. 184 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:54,360 Now, I hasten to add, there is absolutely no evidence of that 185 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,120 happening whatsoever. So you got this. 186 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:02,320 Also, you got this situation now where his reputation is actually 187 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,920 suffering because they honestly, people were thinking he must 188 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,200 have done something really bad. And when he told them, well, I 189 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,840 think it was just leadership, they're going, what is that it, 190 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,840 you know, and these are serious people in business. 191 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:16,840 And you? Know who are bosses they don't 192 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:18,160 get on with or whatever you know I. 193 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,920 Mean, I, I can't necessarily speak to Mr. King's leadership 194 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,000 ethos. I don't know whether, I mean, 195 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:27,480 we've all had, you know, bad bosses. 196 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,240 Yeah, we've all experienced bad leadership. 197 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,680 But whether that was true with regards to Mr. King, I don't 198 00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:36,200 know. The one thing I will say is yes, 199 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:40,560 he was relatively green in the sense of being new to 200 00:11:40,560 --> 00:11:46,200 Parliament, but that doesn't you can still be new department and 201 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,880 have a lot of experiences of leadership or even be a natural. 202 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,800 So. So I really don't know if his 203 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:58,440 leadership was actually bad enough to warrant this coup or 204 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,720 if it was more, you know, sour grapes. 205 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,800 We don't know because they haven't been upfront about it. 206 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:08,040 Mr. King in his interviews yesterday was like, look, I knew 207 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,560 there was resistance, but no one would come and talk to me and 208 00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:12,920 say what the problems was. I welcomed constructive 209 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,080 criticism and he was like, this kind of came out of the blue. 210 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,880 I'm a bit surprised that it came out of the blue because we all 211 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,600 knew there was a resistance going back months. 212 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:24,360 Well, what came out of the blue was a vote that went to the 213 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:25,440 governor. I think that came. 214 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,600 Out and you know, I get his point. 215 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:34,400 If if people have an issue with someone, they should be willing 216 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:38,120 to be assertive enough and say these are the issues I have and 217 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:39,400 try to work well. Maybe they did. 218 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:40,520 Maybe they. Did they? 219 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,480 Did We don't. Know again, we don't know, which 220 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:47,400 is very frustrating not knowing at least some of the story. 221 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:52,000 And again, as I said in my intro this or earlier on, it just 222 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,240 feeds the speculation and it it it will carry on feeding that 223 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,720 speculation. But what's the nature pours a 224 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,400 vacuum, and in the. So when there's a vacuum of 225 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,480 actual information, it gets filled by speculation. 226 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:10,040 Just segwaying into that, I'm taking over your Segways here, 227 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,440 Jonathan. I'll have a couple. 228 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,360 Of Spin did say there was not going to be a special meeting in 229 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:19,000 the Oba to hold a vote. It's going to wait until 230 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:23,040 September. Now, is that a good or a bad 231 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,600 thing? Well, there's definitely pros 232 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,920 and cons and, and just for our listeners, just so that they 233 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,480 understand, I have the Oba constitution here. 234 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,600 So they do have a regular general conference in September, 235 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:40,680 just like the PLP as a regular annual delegates conference, 236 00:13:40,680 --> 00:13:44,560 usually in October. Yeah, but both the PLP and the 237 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:49,080 Oba have the ability to trigger special conferences. 238 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,040 Now in the PLPI don't have their constitution in front of me, but 239 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,960 it can be triggered by a vote of the Central Committee. 240 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,400 They can be triggered by a certain number of branches 241 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:02,000 calling for it in the OBA's constitution. 242 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,840 It's interesting. It's section 3.6 and you know, 243 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,080 maybe we'll get an Oba member who knows their constitution 244 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:13,400 better who will correct me. But my reading of 3.6 says that 245 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:18,200 the special conference can only be called for specific purposes. 246 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,160 It can include any, you know, a vote for leadership. 247 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:27,880 But it can only be called by the executive of the Oba voting to 248 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,680 trigger it. So there's no real mechanism for 249 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:36,000 the Oba membership as I can, as as far as I can tell from their 250 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:37,440 constitution, to trigger anything. 251 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,600 I mean, they could yell and harass members of the executive 252 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,960 until they do trigger it, but there's no actual formal 253 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:49,160 constitutional mechanism for your average Oba member to say 254 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,560 we want a voice, we want to vote on this issue. 255 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,440 Yeah, yeah. And we saw the executive voted 256 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:59,040 last night. I think it was some like 24 to 257 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:00,840 19 or something, I can't remember. 258 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,280 The 24 to 9, it was pretty overwhelming actually. 259 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:08,000 I was quite surprised. To to kind of rubber stamp the 260 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,440 the coup. At that point, it was a fait 261 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:12,840 accompli and I think they were just trying to work out the best 262 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:17,280 way to move forward. Now, as you mentioned, is it a 263 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,520 good idea to wait till the September conference? 264 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,320 Right now, their membership is angry and I think if they did 265 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,880 hold a membership vote right now, a lot of members would 266 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:36,080 probably vote not for Mr. Smith. However, to be put to have your 267 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:40,800 name put forward for as a leadership candidate for the 268 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:45,680 Oba, you have to be an Oba MP and you have to have the 269 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:52,480 signatures of three OBAMPS. And we saw so Oba currently has 270 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:57,440 11 M PS and we saw that what, nine of them supported this 271 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:00,120 coup. Yeah, it was originally 7, then 272 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:01,720 turned to 9. Right. 273 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,800 And it's not clear to me if if the one of those 3 signatories 274 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,600 can also be the candidate put their name for it or it's damn 275 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,560 plus three, I don't know. But either way, there's not 276 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:17,840 enough M PS at the moment who would seem to be willing to 277 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:22,840 support an alternate candidate, And in that situation, as I read 278 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,360 their constitution, that means that there's only one candidate 279 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:31,480 and it's a vote by acclamation, which if I was an Oba member, I 280 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:37,320 would be rather upset about. But if I was, if indeed, But if 281 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:44,640 I was perhaps advising them, I would probably say let's get 282 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:49,040 this over with now. You know, you call a special 283 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:54,120 meeting, you're you're voted in by acclamation, you have the 284 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:58,320 discussion behind closed doors at the at the special meeting 285 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:00,400 and it's done and dusted quickly. 286 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:07,280 I think the problem with delaying this until September is 287 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:11,400 that from a journalistic point of view, if nothing else, keeps 288 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:16,440 the story going, keeps the story going, it brings everything back 289 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:20,079 up in September. Now that is not a good timing 290 00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:22,599 given we know that David Bird is stepping down in October. 291 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,680 So this whole thing is going to be front and centre in September 292 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,760 all over page one, all at the top of the TV news, etcetera, 293 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,640 etcetera. Theoretically, it also gives 294 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:40,480 somebody else time to perhaps get those 3 signatures, which 295 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:44,000 there won't be time now. And so if it does open the door 296 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:49,160 to a challenge, it's if Ben Smith does not perform well. 297 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,400 Yeah, he might this time. Maybe a rope to hang himself 298 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:55,360 with? It could well be. 299 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:58,000 So why not just get it out of the way? 300 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,320 You know, if you do it now, you're going to get voted in by 301 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:03,520 acclamation. They'll get everything out of 302 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,160 the way. You've got a clear run in then 303 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:12,040 to focus on when David Burt leaves as PLP leader and premier 304 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:16,600 to focus on getting your act together, the party's act 305 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:21,360 together with no distractions for what will probably be a 306 00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:28,240 fairly an election fairly soon. I mean, personally, I suspect 307 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,680 that that a lot of the Oba members who are unhappy with 308 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:35,800 this action, probably half of them, not all, some are just 309 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,440 going to stay with the Oba through thick and thin, but 310 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:42,360 they'll voice to, but a good chunk are going to just leave 311 00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:44,760 the party. And so they won't even be there 312 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:49,920 in September to have a vote. The OBA's risk is that those 313 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:53,360 members take their human capital, their knowledge to 314 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,840 either the Free Democratic movement or to the People's 315 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,800 Independent campaign movement or create a whole new party. 316 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:04,400 You could have to bring you to Democratic Alliance Reborn or 317 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:09,880 some other iteration of that. You have at least one MP who did 318 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:14,960 not participate in the coup who abstained either formally or 319 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,280 said I wasn't going to participate and legitimize it. 320 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,200 We don't know if they formally abstain or just wash their hands 321 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,720 of the whole thing. You have Robert King, who is 322 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,680 obviously going to be unhappy, and it sounds like he's going to 323 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:31,440 be facing disciplinary action. Well, that depends if he if he 324 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,600 comes forward doesn't it and help heals it himself, whatever 325 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,280 it is. But my my point is that there's 326 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:44,120 at least two OBAMPS in the house who may not necessarily have an 327 00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:48,560 incentive to toe the party line. They may even decide to do what 328 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:54,320 happened with the UVP and the BDA when there was a Hunter, and 329 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,600 they may be able to take a lot of the the membership with them 330 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,240 and build a momentum between now and the next. 331 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:02,400 Election. I agree. 332 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:06,760 We then comes back to my point. Get the painful bits out of the 333 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,840 way first. Move on, Build momentum. 334 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,840 Yeah, it's a. It's a strange strategy to me. 335 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:18,320 I can see both sides but I I if it was me I would get the 336 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:20,520 painful stuff out of the way quickly. 337 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,040 Get it done. So 1 interesting thing you 338 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:28,040 mentioned about a bad strategy. So one thing that came out in 339 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:32,680 the interviews with Mr. King yesterday, Friday, February the 340 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,600 6th, was that he was in this whole kind of coup actually 341 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,480 happened on the Wednesday. Yeah. 342 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:43,840 It only became into the public light on the Thursday when they 343 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,160 were able to go up to Government House and formally do the 344 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:47,640 swearing in. That's right. 345 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,880 So. Just me? 346 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,920 From being on the outside, it sounds like they may not have 347 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,480 crossed their TS and dotted their I's when they launched 348 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:00,520 their coup on Wednesday, because where was the governor on that 349 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,200 case? Did they not think ahead and how 350 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:04,360 to do that? I don't know. 351 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,680 It just seems like it was a very badly thought out strategy. 352 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:12,920 Yeah, overall is all I'm trying. To on that, yeah, no, I agree it 353 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,840 hasn't. I think a lot of this hasn't 354 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,800 been thought through to my point about, you know, having a 355 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,760 special conference to elect a new leader. 356 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:25,120 It seems to have been very, very sudden. 357 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:27,440 But again, you know, we don't know why. 358 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,680 And not knowing why, as I've said ad nauseam, fuels a 359 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,600 speculation, keeps the story on the front page, which is not a 360 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,720 good look for the Oba because it's always going to be on the 361 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:39,640 back foot. They're never going to be able 362 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:43,320 to enunciate their policies properly if they do, because 363 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:44,960 this is always going to be in the shadow. 364 00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:47,520 Always. People will go to Robert King 365 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:49,960 and say what do you think? As a former leader? 366 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,320 It's it's going to, it's going to hangover with him for a long 367 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:54,680 time. Now. 368 00:21:54,840 --> 00:22:00,920 Talking of Robert King, he said in the RG interview, in the ZBM 369 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:05,000 interview, I assume that he's going to stay within the Oba and 370 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:10,360 stay as an MP. Good or bad for the Oba? 371 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:16,240 Well, on that I'll say a day is a long time in politics, as is a 372 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,240 week. He was giving those interviews 373 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,360 prior to the caucus vote last night. 374 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:26,360 My interpretation of his interview, why he was doing it 375 00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:28,480 and again, there's pros and cons. 376 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:30,960 He might have been advised that it was probably a bad idea. 377 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,280 It might have been a good idea. My thinking was he was trying to 378 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:39,680 communicate, talk over the Oba and talk directly to the Oba 379 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,600 members to say this is what happened. 380 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:47,640 I think that the Oba members vote should be respected. 381 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:53,520 I told to me he was trying to talk directly to the members in 382 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,360 preparation, kind of put pressure on the caucus vote. 383 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:58,720 Now the caucus vote voted against him. 384 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:04,280 So now does he now go to the members that support him and 385 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:08,880 break away with this new party splinter, or does he suck it up 386 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,600 and go back to this place and caucus with a group of people 387 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,760 that have not treated him very well? 388 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:21,160 And you know, I don't know if I would want to go back in a room 389 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,160 of those people if. That, well, especially, 390 00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:28,160 especially as Ben Smith came out and said he's up to to Robert 391 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,680 King to heal whatever has happened if he comes back into 392 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:33,720 the room. I get the impression that Robert 393 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,680 King's a very proud man and may not want to do that. 394 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:42,600 Who lives on his principles and is principled enough to believe 395 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,160 that what he has been doing is the right thing. 396 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,360 I think this could cause quite a lot of problems. 397 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:53,320 Now, whether it'll come to the fact, come to the point where 398 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:57,120 the Oba will withdraw the whip, that could be really 399 00:23:57,120 --> 00:23:59,360 interesting. That's a disciplinary measure, 400 00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:01,840 isn't it? If Robert King does not come 401 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:06,880 back and try to heal whatever it is he has to heal, then you got 402 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,200 a loose cannon former leader, democratically elected by the 403 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:15,080 members, who is free to talk about what he wants to talk 404 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:16,280 about. And that could be a very 405 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:20,160 dangerous thing for the Oba, especially in especially in the 406 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,560 House where everything is privileged. 407 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:27,920 So you can say pretty much what you like and what you say can be 408 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,920 reported on because it is does carry what's called absolute 409 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,400 privilege. And it's not just King, as I 410 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,960 said, there's another MP that kind of washed their hands in 411 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:38,960 this. I don't know who that MP is. 412 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:40,320 Well. We do because he's being named. 413 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,480 It's Mike Faye, right? He came out and he was reported 414 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,360 in The Royal Gazette. Was it OK? 415 00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:46,440 I must have, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was 416 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,280 reported. OK, so you've got 22 MPs, one of 417 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:56,240 them a particularly big name 2 may or may not have any 418 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,440 incentives to play ball anymore with the Oba, but. 419 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,360 That's and that's a really big problem for them. 420 00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:06,440 You know, Mike Fays, my friend, I've, I've always said this all 421 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:07,600 along. He's a friend of mine. 422 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,720 So take what I say with a pinch of salt and I forget this wrong. 423 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,960 I'll get a phone call in a couple of hours. 424 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:15,400 But he's a lightning rod, isn't he? 425 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,640 So he says. Something for good or bad. 426 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,440 For good or bad, he's a light. I've told him that he knows, but 427 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:26,720 he's a lightning rod and if he feels free, could be pretty 428 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,320 tough for the FBA. You know it would be. 429 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:34,200 No, I I have to say I want to qualify this, but I don't know 430 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,080 what he's doing, right? He's a friend, but I've no idea 431 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:37,760 what he's doing. Yeah. 432 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,600 I just had a funny picture of what happens if King and Faye 433 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,800 defect to the PLP. What would the PLP do with that? 434 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,520 Oh, Jonathan, you're going to kill me by joking with that one, 435 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:51,800 can you? Imagine I don't know what the 436 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:53,520 PLP membership will think about that. 437 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:59,720 They're like what? Oh my Lord, what if I'm going to 438 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,120 make sure Mike Faye listens to this that we proposed. 439 00:26:02,360 --> 00:26:05,160 Thought sorry, I could have barely get it out. 440 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,440 He crosses the floor to the PLP. Well, I think Faye's got some 441 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,600 Irish ancestry to him, so Green will look good on him, right? 442 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:19,240 I'm going to message him after this. 443 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:20,520 You've got to listen to this one. 444 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:25,680 But yeah, there we are. Sorry, Jonathan. 445 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,080 Sorry, but here we are. Here we are talking about the 446 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,480 absurdities of all this anyway. Yeah. 447 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,600 Well, you mentioned discipline. So the Oba does have a section, 448 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,560 Section 12 on their constitution that talks about the 449 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,920 disciplinary committee. One interesting bit is Section 450 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:51,560 12.5 which reads that the Oba leader and the Oba whip will 451 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,440 have disciplinary discretion over parliamentarians and their 452 00:26:55,440 --> 00:27:00,040 decision will be final as it relates to parliamentary duties. 453 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,440 They can they can also refer that the member, the NMP to the 454 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,400 disciplinary committee, but the Oba leader has the final say on 455 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:13,160 on that. Another interesting thing is of 456 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:17,040 course the Oba leader or the Opposition leader technically 457 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:21,080 under the Bermuda Constitution order, is the one who sets the 458 00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:26,320 shadow cabinet and also appoints the opposition opposition 459 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:31,560 senators. So it was interesting, if you 460 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,360 look at the Wednesday press conference outside of the of the 461 00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:40,920 Acting Government House, there were two former Oba senators who 462 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,120 were there in the shot. Yep. 463 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,360 They're not centers right now, but, well, at least one of them 464 00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:52,200 was a cent of Marcus Jones. The other one was John Seymour. 465 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:53,960 I can't remember if he was ever a senator. 466 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:55,080 I can't. Remember, but I don't think he 467 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:56,440 was a. Senator, he was a candidate for 468 00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,360 sure, though. So, you know, maybe they're 469 00:28:00,360 --> 00:28:05,560 angling for for a Senate seat. Both of them are somewhat 470 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:10,640 controversial, but you know, that's I'm just saying we're 471 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,320 going to have a new Senate appointment likely they may wait 472 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,520 till after the the budget which is coming up on February. 473 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,520 I want to say the 20th which is also. 474 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,120 Around about that time. Yeah, and that's also the first 475 00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:28,080 sitting of the house from this debacle. 476 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,320 So it's going to be interesting to see how the PLP plays this. 477 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,240 Well, the PLPS, David Burke's going to stand up and say, will 478 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,640 the real leader of the Oba please stand up? 479 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,640 I'm going to play some M&M and some shady with that, but. 480 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,400 That's what I would do. I mean, you know, you got one 481 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,360 Democratic democratically elected and one not 482 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,560 democratically elected. So that's an interesting thing. 483 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,800 What the Oba has done here is now set a precedent. 484 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,560 They've kind of broken the taboo and now it's going to be easier 485 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,800 going forward for any future palace coup. 486 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,640 So there is the risk of, you know, that saying if you live by 487 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,720 the sword, you die by the sword. Ben Smith might face a coup of 488 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:14,160 his own, you know, against him in like 6 months because now 489 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,680 it's, it's being done. That mental taboo is being 490 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,520 broken is going to be easier now. 491 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:26,880 The PLP had this in 2003. It was almost a bit of it when 492 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:31,680 the PLP was in opposition with Mark Bean as the opposition 493 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,480 leader, because there was tension between Mark Bean and 494 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,360 the rest of the PLP, as we've seen by his creation of the free 495 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,840 Democratic movement and the libertarian ideology. 496 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,800 In that, you see, Mark Bean's ideology was rather different 497 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:48,320 from the. General, it was totally 498 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:49,520 different. Yeah, yeah. 499 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,560 So you can understand why there was tension there? 500 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,320 Yeah, I think that was only avoided by the fact that Mark, 501 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,920 Mark Bean, he had, I forget the proper term, it was like a mild 502 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:00,000 stroke or something. He had he. 503 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:04,480 Did Yeah, he was taking. That to him having to, you know, 504 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:09,160 retire from opposition leadership Ness and so David 505 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,800 Barrett became the opposition leader kind of by. 506 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:13,760 Default. I think it would have been a 507 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,360 coup. I think things were probably 508 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,840 building up to that. I'm not sure, but that was 509 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,600 certainly my perception because every almost every every other 510 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,440 week during that period, you heard rumblings about problems 511 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,320 going on in Alaska Hall. So yeah, there was definitely 512 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,160 tension building up to that. But this is the first time where 513 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:39,080 it's actually happened. 2003 kind of happened, but not quite. 514 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,960 It was a fudge. This is the only time where the 515 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,240 actual party constitution and the Bermuda Constitution have 516 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,080 have clashed. And of course, the Bermuda 517 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,480 Constitution takes primacy. But Trump's? 518 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,920 Everything, yeah. Yeah, but this is the first time 519 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,480 it's actually really, it's been talked about before. 520 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:56,960 It's never been done. It's. 521 00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,520 A very good point. That's a very good point. 522 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:01,120 It does create a bit of a precedent, doesn't it? 523 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:02,920 And. Not just for the Oba, it it has 524 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:04,760 that same thing for the PLP now as well. 525 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,680 Any political party. So it is. 526 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:13,080 It's not a constitutional crisis, but it is like AI don't 527 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,840 know an Amber Alert. It is, but it's a party 528 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,320 constitutional crisis? Perhaps not. 529 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,360 A constitutional crisis? Yeah, and the two clashing like 530 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,000 that is really interesting. You raise a good point though, 531 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,960 Jonathan, that, you know, could Ben Smith face his own coup in 532 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,840 six months time? There is a lot of pressure on 533 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,560 him now. I mean, clearly he wanted the 534 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,480 leadership because he stood for the leader at the last Oba 535 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,680 general meeting. He clearly wanted it. 536 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,960 He's now got it, he's got to prove himself, hasn't he? 537 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,240 There's a lot of pressure, there's going to be a lot of 538 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:50,280 scrutiny and a lot of watching of his performance to see if he 539 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,880 really can do it. Well, he's, he's carrying a lot 540 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,040 of political baggage now. I mean he he was already 541 00:31:55,040 --> 00:32:00,360 carrying the the xenophobic anti Jamaican slur from which is the 542 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,840 20. 20 election which the PLP brought up. 543 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,680 Yep. And now he's going to be like, 544 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,480 how can you trust this man? PLP is going to bang that 545 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,760 narrative, and it's a narrative which is also being banged by a 546 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:18,520 lot of the Oba membership. So now he's in a relatively safe 547 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,920 seat. But is it still a safe seat in 548 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,320 this situation? I don't know. 549 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,840 Well. I mean, I'd imagine that the 550 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,440 gamble will be that this is quietened down by the time the 551 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,680 election comes around and it will be forgiven. 552 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,440 And as we said, a week is a long time in politics. 553 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:38,360 But there's going to be a scrutiny on him. 554 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,160 There's going to be scrutiny from internally. 555 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,760 He's got what he's wanted. Is he up to it now? 556 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,880 Yeah, no, I mean hopefully a lot. 557 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:53,120 Of pressure on him to perform. Hopefully we will get Ben Smith, 558 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:57,440 the opposition leader, on the podcast at some point in time. 559 00:32:58,040 --> 00:32:59,440 He may. Not want to right? 560 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:04,880 Now, especially after our kind of jokey comments, but you know, 561 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:06,360 the invitation is out there, right? 562 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,440 So. It is and I will and I've 563 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,080 emailed today and I will carry on and I'll approach them 564 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,640 personally to see if we can get them because I think. 565 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,560 Well, we want to hear from him, his own words and give his 566 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,760 rationale. And I would like to press him, 567 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:31,480 you know, on why, why we've not had specifics. 568 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,840 I mean, you know, maybe they can't, but I mean, you can 569 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:39,600 intimate. You can intimate more. 570 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,520 Yeah. It's interesting times, 571 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:45,520 Jonathan. I think there's a lot more to 572 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:47,480 come out of this, which I said the other day as well. 573 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:52,560 This hasn't finished Shadow cabinet, you know, what is Mike 574 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,040 Faye going to get the one to abstain? 575 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:55,640 What is Robert King going to get? 576 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,600 They've only got 11 MPs. They've all got different shadow 577 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,840 cabinets at the moment. Are those two going to be frozen 578 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,320 out or other people? They're frozen. 579 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,680 Out cabinet ministries that they don't want and I don't think you 580 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:08,679 can force anyone to take a ministry up. 581 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,320 That's a good point actually. Can can those, can they say no, 582 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,199 we don't want it and just I think back. 583 00:34:17,199 --> 00:34:19,239 Then I mean, in that case they'll be referred to the 584 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:23,400 disciplinary committee, maybe have the whip torn, but that 585 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:28,080 might be even worse for the Oba to have two rogue MPs. 586 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,120 Exactly. But you're not going to reward 587 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,120 Robert King with a prime shadow ministry, are you? 588 00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:37,679 No. No, you're not. 589 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,320 I mean to to the victors go the spoils, right? 590 00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:43,400 Including the opposition leader's office. 591 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,800 I I imagine Mr. King has vacated that by now. 592 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,600 There's patronage. You can appoint your senators. 593 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,360 That's a paid. Job consultants. 594 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,560 You can hire a couple consultants in the office staff, 595 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:04,240 so patronage is there now we The same goes for the PLP. 596 00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:06,800 Of course, that's true for any political party. 597 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:08,680 We know that's. For the government and the 598 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,360 opposition. But those those appointments are 599 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:17,320 going to have particular interest, especially the shadow 600 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,680 cabinet appointments, that's going to have particular 601 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,080 interests because it's going to tell political watchers like us 602 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,800 a lot. I've actually been surprised we 603 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:32,720 haven't heard from the death the chair of the Oba, anyone from 604 00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:34,400 the executive who's only being the MPs. 605 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,400 The chair of the Oba is William Soars. 606 00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:39,520 William Soars, old school friend of yours. 607 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:44,640 Yeah, yeah, he's a good guy. He's interesting actually on 608 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,560 politics, but he's a good. Clear, clearly. 609 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:52,240 It's interesting actually that no leaks as far as I know. 610 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,440 Quite a tight ship. It didn't used to be like that, 611 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:58,760 the Oba. It was the leak use of ships. 612 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:06,280 Give it time, Give it time. I'm not going to hold my breath 613 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,520 for us, mate. Yeah, well, we'll see what 614 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,040 happens. Indeed. 615 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,640 Look, Jonathan, I'm going to drown my sorrows. 616 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:17,640 Man United beat Spurs. Bad news, Hull City lost at home 617 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,800 to Bristol. Mackey Wells, his old team. 618 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:25,320 The only silver lining is Wales. Wales got smashed by England, so 619 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,000 at least I can go and toast that. 620 00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:30,960 And I'm afraid to say that the country of your birth got 621 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,000 smashed by Italy in the Six Nations. 622 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,640 Well, yes. And I'll, I'll say what I said 623 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,520 to you before we started. It's because the incentives are 624 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,560 wrong when it comes to the Six Nations. 625 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,040 Go on. Because the losing team gets a 626 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,400 wooden spoon. That's like the joke. 627 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,960 Trophy Metaphorically. Metaphorically Scotland. 628 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,680 We eat a lot of porridge. We need wooden spoons for that. 629 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,560 You gotta make the wooden. Spoon the winning trophy. 630 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,600 Then Scotland would be like, yeah, let's do this right now. 631 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:02,000 We're like, let's win a wooden spoon. 632 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,040 So what you're saying is, Jonathan, you're still in the 633 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,320 Stone Age and use wood instead of steel? 634 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,880 Hey, we like our porridge. Why can I say it's good for? 635 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:14,360 You, yeah, but you use a wooden spoon. 636 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:16,880 Everybody else has kind of caught up that you can use a 637 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,400 nice steel spoon nowadays we believe in. 638 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:23,280 Sustainability and a low carbon. Not recently. 639 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:27,120 Scotland has the highest renewable energy of all of the 640 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:28,640 UK. There we go. 641 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:33,360 I'm not buying your argument. I'm actually going to go make 642 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,040 some porridge now so you know I'm out for breakfast, but I 643 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,720 haven't had lunch yet. So me neither, I haven't had 644 00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:42,960 breakfast, lunch or dinner and it is look my laptop which I'm 645 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,760 on is 3:38 PM which is why I got confused the other day. 646 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,920 So what is that 738? I'm hungry. 647 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:55,360 Well, pleasant appetite, and let's see if there's any more 648 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,720 breaking news between now and our regularly scheduled podcast. 649 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,320 I have a seeking suspicion the next couple of days will be 650 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,880 quite quiet until we see Senate and shadow cabinet minister 651 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,800 which will be sometime next week, which might necessitate 652 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,120 another podcast special. Indeed. 653 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,080 All right mate, on that note, au revoir. 654 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:14,200 Cool.