1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:05,280 Welcome to a special edition of The News Navigators with me, 2 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:07,880 Jeremy Deacon. And me, Jonathan Sterling, I'm. 3 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:12,800 Going to introduce our guests in a minute, but this is the second 4 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:18,480 podcast we've done on social media and screen time. 5 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:22,720 We did one a few weeks ago where we had four people on board 6 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:27,720 giving their opinions and then subsequently came across Una 7 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:32,840 Walsh Taylor and Mike Walsh, who have had a bit of publicity for 8 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:37,080 their group that they founded, Smartphone Free Childhood 9 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,080 Bermuda. Thank you very much, both of you 10 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:41,960 for joining us today. Hopefully it'll be an 11 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:45,000 enlightening conversation. Thank you so much for having us. 12 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:46,520 Yeah. Glad to be here. 13 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,480 Thanks very much. I mean, it's a fascinating 14 00:00:49,480 --> 00:00:51,800 conversation. I, I was in the UK for three 15 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,720 months recently and this was top of the agenda on the news or 16 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:57,720 the, or the talk shows almost every day. 17 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:01,800 I mean. So why did you found Smartphone 18 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:06,120 Free Childhood Bermudrin and what do you hope to get from it? 19 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:13,120 What's your aim? So I basically saw the UK 20 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:17,280 movement, I think it started almost two years ago at this 21 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:19,320 point. And around the same time as a 22 00:01:19,320 --> 00:01:21,480 book came out called The Anxious Generation. 23 00:01:22,320 --> 00:01:27,000 And I saw that it went from a WhatsApp group between two mums 24 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:33,280 and over a weekend became almost a viral sensation and insane. 25 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,440 Yeah, like it's a full global movement. 26 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,400 And, and so I kind of put feelers out within my daughter's 27 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:41,240 class. So I just have one daughter and 28 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,760 she's 7 going on 8. And at that time they were 5 29 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:46,320 going on 6. So a lot of the parents were 30 00:01:46,320 --> 00:01:48,560 like, this is not something we need to think about right now. 31 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,360 That I was coming from a viewpoint of this is something 32 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,480 we need to think about for the future rather than sleepwalking 33 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,080 into getting our kids phones at some point. 34 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:03,360 So this year, really, we got off the ground because I set up the 35 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,040 website, we had a few meetings with other interested parents, 36 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:12,000 Mike came on board and yeah, then we got some, I guess 37 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,040 traction and we're in the media and stuff. 38 00:02:15,640 --> 00:02:19,640 And I have to say, selfishly, I set it up for my daughter, 39 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:24,080 right? But I would hope this will be an 40 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,720 island wide community where people help each other out and 41 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:31,400 see that they're not alone in wanting to keep phones away from 42 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,240 their kids for a little bit longer than kind of has become 43 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,160 the norm. Is that, is that the aim of your 44 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:38,840 group then just to try and delay? 45 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:40,960 People call it a ban? It's not a ban, it's. 46 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,200 A It's not absolutely not a ban. We're not anti tech. 47 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:49,240 It's not a ban. It's the mission basically is to 48 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:53,760 delay smartphones until at least age 14 and social media until 49 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,920 16. And it's a shared symbolic 50 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:00,240 parent pact. So parents go on our website, 51 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,400 they sign a pact, It's not legally binding. 52 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,880 They can pull out at any point. They can change their mind. 53 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:11,800 So it's more of a community kind of grassroots type thing among 54 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,600 parents. And I think just to just to add 55 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,840 to that then, so like, you know, I'm a I'm a father, I'm a 56 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:19,640 parent. We're not related by the way, 57 00:03:19,640 --> 00:03:22,000 our surnames are similar, but that's just coincidence. 58 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,000 So I'm the father of a 10 year old son and a eight-year old 59 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,000 daughter. And I became interested in this 60 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,320 after reading that book that Una Una mentioned by Jonathan Haidt, 61 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:32,320 who's an American social psychologist. 62 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:36,000 And the book goes into a lot of data in terms of the impact that 63 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:39,080 smartphones and social media have on children in a number of 64 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,080 ways, which I think we'll touch upon in a moment. 65 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,840 And, and it really opened my mind in terms of, you know, what 66 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:46,040 I need to be thinking about as a parent. 67 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:48,880 And so when I heard what Una was doing with this group, I, I, I 68 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:52,280 wanted to get involved. And I think really just to add 69 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:54,560 to what Una said, you know, the group's been established to 70 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,720 address a real concern that many parents have and which is 71 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,600 supported by data and that's that smartphones and social 72 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,520 media are having negative impacts on children. 73 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:05,320 And the three things I've just called out right off the bat, 74 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,320 and then we can go into more detail later, is firstly, 75 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,360 academic performance. So studies have shown that 76 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:15,760 concentration, memory and various other things, sleep as 77 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,279 well, which is important for academic performance, are all 78 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,560 being impacted by smartphones and social media. 79 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:25,440 The second one is mental health. You know, rates of anxiety, 80 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,680 depression, self harm and suicide have all gone up 81 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,840 significantly since 2010. And I know that's been covered 82 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,600 in some of your other podcasts with the likes of Dan Kavanagh 83 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,480 and and Sandy De Silva. And then and the third one then 84 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,920 is exposure to harmful content. There's some pretty shocking 85 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,000 data out there in terms of what children, teenagers in 86 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,720 particular, have been exposed to through their smartphones and 87 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,440 social media. And it's not the sort of thing 88 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:53,400 that I think any parent would want their want their children 89 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:54,560 seeing. So when you, when you think 90 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,520 about all of these things and then the opportunity cost as 91 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,480 well, which is that the time that children are spending on 92 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,520 smartphones and social media is time that they're not spending 93 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:07,000 with their friends playing outdoors, reading, you know, 94 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:08,600 that opportunity cost is real as well. 95 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:10,280 So we add that all together. There's there's quite a 96 00:05:10,280 --> 00:05:14,480 significant impact on children. My, my children are grown up 97 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,640 there, 23 and 20. And, and I'm very glad that they 98 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:23,200 missed, I pretty much missed the, the smartphone social media 99 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:27,160 sort of thing. But what we found was 100 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:31,360 smartphones in particular was almost the children's currency. 101 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:33,480 You know, that's what they value. 102 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,680 That's how they communicated with each other. 103 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:41,120 And we caved because of that reason more than anything else. 104 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,920 And just to play devil's advocate, there's part of me 105 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:48,920 that thinks that denying children's smartphones and 106 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:51,720 social media, or at least limiting screen time, actually 107 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:53,480 takes them away from their friends. 108 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,200 And it has. It has a significant impact that 109 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,200 way as well. Yeah. 110 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:03,840 So I think that's that's definitely been the case in the 111 00:06:03,840 --> 00:06:05,400 past. And I think what we, what we 112 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:09,000 know now wasn't known sort of 15 years ago when smartphones were 113 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,720 first introduced. And it's taken some time for the 114 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:15,240 data to come through. But I think if, if what Una and 115 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,960 the group are trying to achieve is successful, then that 116 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,560 currency piece will start to fall away for younger children 117 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,040 at least, because social pressure won't be there. 118 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,640 Because if enough families have signed up to the pledge and 119 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,760 agreed to delay, not not completely banned, but delay 120 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:30,720 giving their children smartphones and they won't have 121 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,800 their friends saying to them, well, why? 122 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:35,880 Why you yield one out not having one here. 123 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,840 And actually, whilst it might seem on the face of it that by 124 00:06:39,840 --> 00:06:41,960 not giving them a smartphone, we're depriving them or 125 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,680 something, actually what we would say is we're actually 126 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,040 giving them something. We're giving them that time and 127 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:51,200 space to to learn and grow free from the algorithmic content, 128 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,000 the addictive content that's out there, the chance to spend more 129 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,320 time with their friends in person and develop real world 130 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:58,800 relationships and real world skills that help them transition 131 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:00,440 into adulthood. Yeah, yeah. 132 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,760 So it's interesting. I remember like probably just 10 133 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:08,520 years ago when smartphones are really, I mean, I first got my 134 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,480 first smartphone in 2008, but they really kind of took off 135 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,040 about 10 years ago. And like for kids. 136 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:19,640 And I remember at the time, some of the teachers and education 137 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:23,440 proponents were saying we need to embrace the cell phones, 138 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:25,720 smartphones in our education system. 139 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:27,960 And now we've kind of come full circle. 140 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,320 I mean, obviously we didn't have the full data at the time. 141 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,320 But yeah, I just, I just thought that was interesting. 142 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:39,000 They, I think they, I think all technology is neutral in a 143 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:40,680 sense. It's how it's used. 144 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:45,480 And I definitely think that a lot of the smartphones and Mike, 145 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:47,720 you mentioned it, the algorithms, they're, they're 146 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:53,160 designed to be addictive. And I see when when I kind of 147 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,360 took my phone away from like my 3 year old niece who 148 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:00,280 automatically knows how to operate a phone, blows my mind. 149 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:02,280 She's like downloading games. I'm like, what? 150 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,520 And I take it away and she's it's like an addict with 151 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:07,240 withdrawal having a full tantrum. 152 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,080 Well, we had a court case, didn't we, in America where it 153 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,360 was the jury found that the the Facebook algorithm, the 154 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:18,040 notification, everything were addictive and it cost them a lot 155 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:20,840 of money. There was another case in, was 156 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,120 it in Mexico? I can't remember now, or 157 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,280 southern US as well, where I think they were fine, something 158 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,720 like 300 million. I mean, it is, I think it is a 159 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:31,520 statement of fact now that they're addictive, Yeah. 160 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,280 Yeah, our kids are sorry. Come on, how are you now? 161 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,320 Sorry, no. Our kids are up against teams of 162 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:42,679 engineers and psychologists in Silicon Valley who are making 163 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,880 these things as addictive as possible for adults. 164 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,920 But now the kids are getting phones, so for kids as well, 165 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,400 right? It's a tricky 1, isn't it? 166 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:55,320 I mean, part of me. I mean, my wife used to go away 167 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,120 on business and I'll, I'll be quite honest, when I was a 168 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,280 single, single dad with two young kids, I was pretty 169 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:02,800 grateful for a bit of screen time. 170 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,200 I'm not going to lie. You'll help you do the cooking 171 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,080 and the washing and getting them to bed. 172 00:09:08,560 --> 00:09:10,800 You can't really blame parents if they do that, can you? 173 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,320 A. 100%, we're not judging anyone. 174 00:09:13,560 --> 00:09:18,600 We're not, you know, here to sow division amongst people and we 175 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:22,440 understand everyone has their own like, you know, their own 176 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:24,160 balance that they're trying to create. 177 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,320 You know, some people have two households, one child moving 178 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:29,280 between them. Maybe they have a court ordered 179 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:31,720 device. Some people are working shift 180 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,800 work, couple of jobs. The kids are going home, letting 181 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:36,840 themselves in and they're going on their devices. 182 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:42,960 There's absolutely no judgement. And our our kind of thing is the 183 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:47,400 more of us who sign the pledge, the less it becomes the norm 184 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,600 that all the kids have the smartphone or the social media. 185 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:54,320 And so it's just, it's kind of bringing down the peer pressure 186 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,760 amongst the kids themselves. And those of us that are signing 187 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,440 up are LED, are kind of communicating with our kids 188 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:03,520 about why we're doing this. No, it's not just no, you're not 189 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:05,360 allowed this full stop. It's my rule. 190 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,600 We're kind of letting them know this is knock of your brain, 191 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,920 your brain's still developing. He's got the, you know, the tech 192 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,720 pros have their engineers out to get you. 193 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:20,520 I mean, I don't make it that, you know, baddie against goodies 194 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,640 or whatever with my child, but I do try and let her know, despite 195 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,360 her just being seven, that this is not good for her. 196 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,520 And I think, sorry, go ahead, you know. 197 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:33,800 She's 7. She's 7. 198 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:36,240 How does she? React. 199 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:40,440 Oh, sorry. You know, she has seen me do a 200 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,280 lot of work on this. She's seen me set up the 201 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,360 website. And so for now, she's fully on 202 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:51,960 board and she, we have Jonathan Hyde, who wrote The Anxious 203 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,840 Generation, actually brought out another book with Catherine 204 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,720 Price and it's for kids called The Amazing Generation. 205 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,680 And it's, there's, you know, some graphic novel parts to it. 206 00:11:02,680 --> 00:11:06,480 And it's why you don't need a phone and what you're missing 207 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:07,800 out on when you don't have a phone. 208 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:09,800 And so she reads that now and again, she'll pick it up and 209 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:13,840 look at it. And so for now she's on board. 210 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:17,080 But like I say, she's going on 8 when she's 12/13/14. 211 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:18,880 It's going to be a very different conversation. 212 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:23,040 I think as well, it's worth keeping in mind that Steve Jobs 213 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:26,480 famously said that he wouldn't allow an iPad in his home, let 214 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,960 alone his kids to have one. So, you know, he clearly 215 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,080 understood the negative impact these devices that he had helped 216 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:36,560 create could have on children. I mean, it's, it's, it's 217 00:11:36,560 --> 00:11:39,040 interesting. I mean, I'm, I'm aging myself 218 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:40,520 here. We're all probably roughly the 219 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:43,400 same age. I think I'm a little bit older 220 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,000 than everybody here, frankly. I was being diplomatic. 221 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,000 Thank you very much. But I mean, I, I didn't grow up 222 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,800 with cell phones. I mean, to me, my free time was 223 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:55,240 reading books or going outside, running around the neighborhood 224 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,240 and fishing. But you know, the current 225 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:02,680 generation is a whole different lifestyle now and I think. 226 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:04,880 I think it affects them socially, doesn't it? 227 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,880 As well. These things are very one way, 228 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,120 so there's very little interaction. 229 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:14,080 So you know, it must affect your vocabulary skills, your speaking 230 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,120 skills, your social skills. It must do. 231 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:21,160 There there's an American and former teacher who's now a, a 232 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:24,440 psychologist who I, I saw talk very recently on, on YouTube, 233 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,280 ironically. But I saw him talk very recently 234 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,040 and he was presenting to a government committee in the US. 235 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:32,000 And he was saying that the data that they gather in the US that 236 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:36,560 have been gathering since 1962 on academic performance is 237 00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:40,240 showing that on many measures, whether it's literacy, numeracy, 238 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,520 abstract thinking, the current generation that's coming through 239 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:46,840 is the first generation in modern times that is scoring 240 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:48,640 lower than the previous generation. 241 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:53,080 And you know, he goes on to say that the use of technology in 242 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:57,000 schools extensively is being shown to have a negative impact. 243 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,120 Social media is being shown to have a negative impact. 244 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,440 And apparently, according to what he was saying, you can look 245 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,720 at data by States and you can see at what point did they 246 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,000 increase a lot more use of technology in their schools. 247 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,560 It's at that point that the data starts to deteriorate. 248 00:13:10,560 --> 00:13:13,360 So, so to your point, Jeremy, absolutely it's, it's, it is 249 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,400 having an impact on their capabilities. 250 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,000 I think where I always start thinking is, you know, there's 251 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,400 always a moral panic when there's a new technology. 252 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,920 I mean, back in the 80s and 90s, I know the concern was video 253 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:28,960 games and television and that was rotting the brains of youth. 254 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,200 And I, I think there's good evidence that it does do that. 255 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,360 I, I certainly grew up on a lot of TV and video games and look 256 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:41,320 at me now. But, but I, I just kind of, 257 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,040 there's a skit, a comedy skit set in the medieval era when 258 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,800 books come out and people like, oh, these young kids reading 259 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,000 books, they're not living life and working in the field. 260 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,200 And I, I just sometimes wonder too much degree. 261 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,680 Is it a moral panic? And how much of it is a real 262 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,800 concern? I mean, the technology is useful 263 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,680 especially for people of different needs, you know, 264 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:06,680 physically disabled people in particular who cannot otherwise 265 00:14:06,680 --> 00:14:10,400 socially connect. But yeah, it is also this other 266 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:12,200 issue. There's a class issue. 267 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,880 It used to be, well, only the rich could afford video games 268 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,240 and TV. But now it's only the rich can 269 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,120 afford to go out to do extracurricular activities and 270 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,480 have a, I don't know, a cycle or something. 271 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,200 Yeah. And it's also a case of now the 272 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:31,080 rich or, you know, have the privilege of saying, no, you 273 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:35,120 can't have a phone because I have time to bring you places or 274 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,120 to watch you. You know, I'm not offered 275 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,920 another job. So it is. 276 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:44,080 It's a very nuanced subject. Yeah. 277 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,960 What kind of level of support has your group got so far? 278 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:51,040 How many how many parents have signed up to the pledge so far? 279 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:57,280 So far 326 families have signed the pledge and then support 280 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,720 wise, we've got support within the mental health community. 281 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:05,800 Sandy de Silva, who I know you're familiar with, is very 282 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:10,320 much on board. And then we've met with Minister 283 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,480 Robin and we've met with Minister Ferbert. 284 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:18,040 So I think because, particularly because excuse me, of Dan 285 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,440 Kavanagh's research and then the big Up Yourself conference, I 286 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,400 think the Government are very aware that there is an issue 287 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,400 with screen time amongst kids in Bermuda. 288 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:34,480 And so they are, they're supportive of parents doing 289 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:39,320 something about it for a start. And then Minister Rabaine is 290 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,280 going to bring back the Cyber Tips program. 291 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,920 I think it was in effect and maybe it had trailed off a 292 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,320 little bit and now they're bringing it back on a full Wham. 293 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,920 So there'll be education for parents and kids in schools as 294 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,400 well as to how to have healthy online habits. 295 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,480 I know they've they've kind of banned phone use in schools 296 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,120 during school hours. Of course, that doesn't help 297 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,080 teach boundaries outside of the school hours. 298 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,560 But yeah. Somewhat helpful I guess. 299 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,000 Yeah, I think so. Just want to remind our 300 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,880 audience, Dan Kavanaugh did a very extensive and very 301 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:18,040 extensive research into mental health among young people, which 302 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:19,560 had some pretty shocking results. 303 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:25,120 And quick plug here, we did do a series with him and all four 304 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:31,360 episodes are available on the website www.thenewsnets.com, I 305 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,480 think. One, sorry, Jeremy, I was going 306 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,000 to say one more thing. I was just going to say one. 307 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:38,640 One thing. I know when I was growing up in 308 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,320 the 80s and 90s, there were a lot more community clubs and 309 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,480 community centers. You know, they were like 310 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,000 homework clubs. You would go after school before 311 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,280 your parents finished work and you did your homework type 312 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:52,080 thing. And those just don't exist 313 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:53,720 anymore. I mean, there used to be an 314 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,000 arcade. I mean, I could think there is 315 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,600 an arcade now up in Frog and Onion and Dockyard, but it's not 316 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:01,760 the same. There's not that many free 317 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:03,880 public spaces, apart from maybe the library. 318 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,720 Yeah. And I'm not sure. 319 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,319 So Jonathan Height writes in his book that a lot of it is parents 320 00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:14,599 became very protective of their kids. 321 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,200 And so kids nowadays are not as independent as we were. 322 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,280 Like, you spoke to how you were out riding your bike. 323 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,880 Most kids are down at National Stadium with their helmet on and 324 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:25,680 their parent following them, right. 325 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,520 Not as many people. Sure, I do see kids out and 326 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:32,280 about on bikes, but certainly not like it was in our day. 327 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,400 Like, I hate to be that person, but you know, parenting has 328 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,160 changed a lot. You know what? 329 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,120 How much is that due to the content on things like social 330 00:17:41,120 --> 00:17:43,120 media? I wonder because everything so 331 00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:44,880 much more immediate now, isn't it? 332 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,640 And he gets so much misinformation and no fact 333 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,640 checking and suddenly you can create fear in the community. 334 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,440 I think that's that's definitely contributed. 335 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,640 But the the slide was already under way in the early 90s, at 336 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,440 least in, in parts of the world. And again, Jonathan Haidt talks 337 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,960 about that in, in his book, the fact that there was a lot more 338 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:10,160 adverts on TV and quite extreme articles in newspapers about 339 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,840 stranger danger and the risk of children getting abducted. 340 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,040 And then there was this change, that change that started then. 341 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:19,400 But I think social media has definitely amplified that 342 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,680 through these negative stories. Yeah, what was interesting. 343 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,360 Somebody attacked A paediatrician thinking they were 344 00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:29,680 a paedophile. What 1 interesting thing I find 345 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,480 is, you know, growing up in Bermuda in the 80s and the 90s, 346 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,560 we only had like 2, maybe 3 TV channels. 347 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:39,320 Everyone watched the same shows. We had a common thing we could 348 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,360 talk about. We all kind of read the same 349 00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:43,000 books. We all went to the ACT show. 350 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:47,840 Now I talked to, I don't know, different people and they're 351 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:49,600 totally watching totally different things. 352 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:51,920 Netflix is all personalized to them. 353 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,840 We don't have any really common things to talk about as much as 354 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,440 we used to. And that goes to what you guys 355 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:00,160 were just talking about, the echo chambers that the 356 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:04,080 algorithms can create. Which are very harmful and and 357 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,640 the and the content that you get fed as well. 358 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,120 Well, what was that a manosphere thing that it was? 359 00:19:11,120 --> 00:19:14,080 It was a Netflix show. Pull through, we through. 360 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:16,280 Was that? Right. 361 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:20,440 Yeah, where that kid he, you know, the father was like, oh, I 362 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:21,840 thought he was fine up in his room. 363 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,080 His adolescence, yeah. Adolescence. 364 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:27,400 Right. Yeah, that that scene will stay 365 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,680 with me forever because it resonated, you know, just just 366 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,400 the audience knows he's right at the end. 367 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,600 The spoiler alert, if you haven't seen it, I'm sorry. 368 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:39,600 Where the kid was guilty, pleaded guilty to murder. 369 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,960 And his father just thought he was safe in his room on his 370 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,120 computer. But that's where it all started. 371 00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:48,640 That's where he got the abuse. And that's, you know, how the 372 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,320 whole murder came around. And that that resonated with me 373 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:57,080 so much because, excuse me, my son, you know, was sitting 374 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,640 upstairs in his bedroom. As far as I know, he's playing 375 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,040 football manager. And he was genuinely, but I 376 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:03,680 might not have known. Yeah. 377 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,880 Really resonated with. Me but the whole manosphere 378 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,760 thing is really scary I mean I know a lot of women teachers who 379 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:15,760 are being kind of verbally assaulted using this kind of 380 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,960 Andrew Tate manosphere things that they're learning on their 381 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,240 on social media it's really really disturbing I. 382 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:24,080 Think there's worse things than that. 383 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:28,040 When I was in the UK, it's a great program where I think it 384 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,760 was called the 786 Club or something like that, where young 385 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:36,720 members, young men were target women, young girls they could 386 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:41,000 see were vulnerable and they'd defend them and before long they 387 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,680 were blackmailing them and they led to suicides. 388 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,480 It was absolutely awful. All this was through social 389 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,320 media. And The thing is as, as, as they 390 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,320 as children see more of this content, it just becomes 391 00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:54,880 normalised to them, they become desensitised to it. 392 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,120 So, so some, some of the days that Una and I came across as we 393 00:20:58,120 --> 00:21:01,840 were preparing for presentations recently as part of the group 394 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,280 were it was pretty shocking and I alluded to it earlier. 395 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:08,240 So some studies that have been undertaken in the UK, if you 396 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:13,280 look at 11 to 13 year olds, over half of them have watched 397 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,160 hardcore pornography on their devices. 398 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,960 So not just regular pornography, hardcore pornography, but if you 399 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,200 pornography, violent pornography. 400 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:25,040 And then if you look at 15 year olds again in the UK, in this 401 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:29,680 particular study, 3/4 of them had been sent a video of a 402 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,120 beheading. Now I don't know if you've ever 403 00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:35,080 seen a video of beheading, but when I was about 20, someone 404 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:36,480 thought it'd be fun to send that to me. 405 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:38,200 I didn't know what it was and it was, it was horrific. 406 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,520 So I couldn't stop thinking about it for days. 407 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,840 So knowing that's how I felt at 20, I can only imagine how a 15 408 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:45,760 year old feels seeing that sort of content. 409 00:21:46,360 --> 00:21:48,600 And The thing is, even if our kids aren't searching for this 410 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:50,480 stuff, you know, going back to what you were saying earlier, 411 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,760 you know it will find them. The algorithm will serve it up 412 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,320 to them or their friends will send it to them on WhatsApp and 413 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,840 a research group in the UK earlier this year, they set up 414 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,680 fake accounts as if they were thirteen years old and they set 415 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,040 them up on TikTok, Snapchat, Instagram and YouTube. 416 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,040 What they found was that these 13 year old accounts that they'd 417 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,720 set up within minutes were being sent content that was related to 418 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,760 self harm, misogynistic. So going back to the manosphere 419 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,320 piece weapons and and and suicide. 420 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,760 So, you know, I mean, that's pretty much every parent's worst 421 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,120 nightmare to have their child looking at this content at at 422 00:22:24,120 --> 00:22:25,400 such a young age. Yeah. 423 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,960 We need to work on consent. Responsibility. 424 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,840 But whose responsibility is it? Everyone. 425 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:34,640 Well, I think, I think I think that's right. 426 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,160 I mean, you think about phrase it takes a village to to raise a 427 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:38,560 child. You know, I think it's a lot of 428 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,800 people have a role to play here. But Una, sorry, you're going to 429 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,480 say something. No, I, I literally was about to 430 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,480 say the same thing. I think it has to be a community 431 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,880 effort and like we said, parents are stressed and they're having 432 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,400 a hard time parenting as it is. However, I feel like they need 433 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:59,520 to have communication with their children and we need to educate 434 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:04,280 our kids on how to approach social media when they get 435 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,160 there. I think having a delay on us and 436 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,760 explaining why you have a delay on us and then slowly but surely 437 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,800 introducing it as they get older, at least you can mitigate 438 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,160 some of those circumstances, right? 439 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,760 And you can let them know, you know, if you do see something 440 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,400 bad online or if somebody shows you something bad online, you 441 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,560 can still come to me. We have an open line of 442 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,280 communication. We have a trustworthy 443 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,880 relationship. And I think that's really 444 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,560 important. And then I guess if cyber tips 445 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,400 are out in the schools, they're going to teach the kids, you 446 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:39,160 know, where their parents just are, don't have the capacity to 447 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,320 do it or the knowledge potentially. 448 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,920 And then I think we need to educate the parents as well. 449 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,240 What has your feedback been from teenagers? 450 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:54,800 Honestly, I haven't spoken to many of them yet and I would 451 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,120 love to. I actually I spoke to Dan 452 00:23:58,120 --> 00:24:02,000 Kavanagh recently and he said if the Youth Advisory Board are on 453 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:06,120 board then he would be on board. I'm eager to chat to them, but 454 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:10,880 you know, he comes from a place of the teenagers and the mental 455 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,680 health of the young people. And I mean, I'm definitely 456 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,560 aligned with that, so. Just just going back to the 457 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,840 previous point for a moment, in terms of where does 458 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,680 responsibility lie, I think it's interesting to think of 459 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:25,880 parallels. So take alcohol for example, you 460 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,040 know, which has been around for such a long time. 461 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,640 We've got parents hopefully educating their children on the 462 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,560 dangers of it at young age. We've got society looking out 463 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,320 for children, going to bars, etcetera, and we have government 464 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,120 putting laws in place. So I think I think that's a good 465 00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:44,280 analogy for how something is dangerous for a developing brain 466 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,440 like a child has. Then all of those different 467 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,680 parts of the community need to be working together to to look 468 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:55,000 out for those children. I think on those points there, 469 00:24:55,040 --> 00:25:00,320 there was a lot of publicity generated by governments around 470 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,680 the world to advertise the dangers associated with drinking 471 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,600 and also of course, smoking. It strikes. 472 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,600 And in in the UK when I was there, Kier Starmer, the Prime 473 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:17,680 Minister came out and announced guidelines that they were going 474 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,680 to give parents. And it strikes me that in this 475 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,040 case, this is where governments can play a bigger role. 476 00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:28,680 Some people were saying about the guidelines, So what didn't 477 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,880 matter? Other people made a very good 478 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:35,000 point there that a parent can say it's not our fault, this is 479 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:39,280 what the government says and it really helped to give them an 480 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,160 excuse and it really proved the government could lead. 481 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,520 It strikes me that we talk about the community, but somebody's 482 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,080 got to lead and think government maybe should leave. 483 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:53,240 Personally, I'm not criticizing government, but I think there's 484 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:57,840 an opportunity there to lead. To and in many countries around 485 00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,520 the world they're starting to do that now. 486 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,680 And then just just yesterday in the UK, the minister was talking 487 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,760 about the fact that when a certain consultation period 488 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,200 finishes in late May, there will be action taken for under 489 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,160 sixteens. They haven't confirmed what that 490 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:12,520 action will be yet. And obviously there's been 491 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,760 Australia and there's, there's a list of over 20 countries that I 492 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,840 could find online that that are in the process of taking action, 493 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,120 Turkey, Spain and many others. And you know, as, as Una 494 00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:25,600 mentioned, we have spoken with Minister Ferbut and Minister 495 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,160 Rabaine who, who actually reached out to us, which was 496 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,480 great. And I know it's very much 497 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,240 something that Minister Ferbut's been raising in her 498 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,760 conversations as well, talking about some data from earlier in 499 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,840 the year, recognising that screen time usage in, in Bermuda 500 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,280 is very high. So I'm, so I'm with you, Jeremy. 501 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,760 I think government does have a role to play and hopefully it's 502 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:45,760 a matter of time for the government in Bermuda, but. 503 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:47,960 Like I say, it gives the parents an excuse. 504 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,120 Absolutely they're. Not the big bad parents, the big 505 00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:52,680 bad governments making them do it. 506 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:53,960 And they get away with it that way. 507 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:59,600 I certainly think we need more regulation from international 508 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,800 states levels. I don't think Bermuda regulating 509 00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:05,960 social media is going to have much effect on Facebook or X or 510 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,160 anything. But I know the EU is pushing a 511 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,480 lot of these things. There was that court case you 512 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,720 just mentioned. Of course the Americans are 513 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,320 threatening. Was it the the UK trade deal for 514 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,120 digital sales tax? They're threatening. 515 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:19,840 So we're limited in what we can do. 516 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,040 But I think it is moving in the right direction. 517 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,440 And I think just having conversations like this and 518 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,680 raising awareness helps. As I think Una, you mentioned it 519 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,520 is, it's very nuanced. You know, there are class 520 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,680 issues, there's different issues going on. 521 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:39,680 I, I can't blame a single mother working three jobs, you know, 522 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,720 without a social support network to look after and and assist. 523 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,000 I totally understand. Yeah, using the screen. 524 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:47,960 I get it. Yeah. 525 00:27:49,120 --> 00:27:53,200 Yeah, I, I totally sympathize. It's, you know, I don't think 526 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,000 you could cope otherwise. Yeah. 527 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,800 And then I think like you say about guidelines versus ban, at 528 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,240 least if they're governmental guidelines, like you say, it's a 529 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,280 fall back for parents to say this is what the government are 530 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,800 saying we should do. Whereas with a ban, then you 531 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,440 have kids that potentially need support online and potentially 532 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,120 online is the only place they'll find it. 533 00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:18,280 Yes. So like I say, it's it's it's 534 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:19,160 nuanced, right? Yeah, very. 535 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,240 Nuanced. Yeah, it's really difficult to 536 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:25,600 find the balance, but I think that's where our group can come 537 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:30,480 into play whereby parents are banding together to say we're 538 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,280 not letting you have these devices yet, we're going to talk 539 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,000 to you why, we're going to let you know why, and then we can 540 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,360 introduce it at a later date and. 541 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,160 I think what's what's something I've been thinking about is 542 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,440 actually how difficult it is to role model the right behaviour 543 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,520 with, with phones. So for example, when we were 544 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,520 children, we would see our parents reading the mail, we'd 545 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,800 see our parents reading the newspaper, we'd see our parents 546 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,240 reading a book potentially. Now all of that happens on your 547 00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:58,800 phone. You read emails, you read the 548 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,160 news on a website, you, you read a book on a Kindle app. 549 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,800 So actually children will just see us staring at a screen, not 550 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:06,240 necessarily knowing what we're doing. 551 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,360 And actually, perhaps a large part of what we're doing is 552 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,960 quite productive as opposed to just doing scrolling or, or 553 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,520 watching videos or on an infinite reel. 554 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,080 So that's something, again, I think we'll probably have to 555 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,560 just like talk to our children about what exactly are we doing 556 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,600 on our phones so they don't just assume that we're doing 557 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:22,800 something that they think is really fun. 558 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:28,080 So where do you go from here? Smartphone free Childhood 559 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:29,520 Bermuda? Where do you go from here? 560 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,600 So we're just trying to get more families to sign up. 561 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,640 Our main aim is just to get as many as we can. 562 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,120 And we have a chat coming up with a PTA at the end of the 563 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:42,000 month. And we've done some 564 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:47,680 presentations previously at BHS, not specifically for BHS, just 565 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,920 for the community, just so happened that we held them 566 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,240 there. And we're happy to chat to 567 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,960 people whenever, wherever, and just get the word out. 568 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:06,680 The website, by the way, is www.sfcbermuda.com and people 569 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,960 can find the info there. There's a WhatsApp group as 570 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,320 well. And as, as you know, sorry, 571 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,480 John, just to say, as you know, word of mouth is, is so 572 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,560 important in Bermuda. So right now we're, we're just 573 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,240 trying to get out there as much as possible and, and actually 574 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,680 just share the research because I think a lot of people probably 575 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,120 aren't aware of the research and it's becoming more well 576 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,120 understood now. But as I said, until I read this 577 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,320 book in the last couple of years, I wasn't completely aware 578 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,200 and was potentially just sleepwalking into just following 579 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,000 what everyone else did. And I think it's important to 580 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,680 just let everyone know that what data is now available that 581 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,400 wasn't available 10 years ago. I just wanted to ask that 582 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,280 website does it have like contact information people want 583 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,800 to join or get involved and notifications for upcoming 584 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,160 events and stuff? Yeah, it does. 585 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:56,160 It's just me taking care of it and so far, luckily, it hasn't 586 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,880 been insanely busy, but I do have a group of parents that are 587 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,040 very helpful as well and very supportive. 588 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,840 But yeah, events that are coming up will be on there. 589 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,000 There's an e-mail on there to get in touch with us, and then 590 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,400 there's AQR code for the WhatsApp group on there as well. 591 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:10,840 Awesome. Thank you. 592 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,480 Yeah. Well, I think that was very 593 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,160 enlightening. I hope our audience found it 594 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,560 fascinating. I don't think this is the last 595 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,560 time we're going to have this conversation, might not be in 596 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,680 this format with these people, but I'm sure this conversation 597 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,880 is going to go on and on and on and on, and it's going to be 598 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,160 interesting to see who or what action is taken. 599 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,120 I mean, next year it might be a wearable AI thing that we'll be 600 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,320 talking about instead, so. Here's the thing, isn't it? 601 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,480 We didn't even talk touched on AI and the effect. 602 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,240 That's going to have, Yeah, we kind of, we start our 603 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,440 presentations by saying we're not touching AI or Ed tech right 604 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,960 now just because let's just get on top of the phones first. 605 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,120 Yeah. But yeah, it's just all 606 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:56,120 snowballing on top of us, right? Great I got AI, got a new phone 607 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:57,760 and it was pre installed with Gemini. 608 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:02,720 Right, same. I mean, I am a Gemini so I 609 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,480 didn't mind it too much, but I'm just kidding. 610 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,160 I think once happy. Birthday to. 611 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,600 Them So talking about devices, one thing to mention actually is 612 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,600 that we're not necessarily children should not have a 613 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,880 phone. It is possible to get phones 614 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,800 that are not smartphones that even have inbuilt Google Maps so 615 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,720 that children can get around. And some of the volunteers in 616 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,320 the group are actually in discussions right now with the 617 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,520 likes of One Com Paradise Mobile and looking at what devices we 618 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,760 could have in Bermuda that fit with the spectrum here and which 619 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,040 then would allow parents to actually give their children a 620 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,600 phone for communication purposes without having the social media 621 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,640 aspects that we mentioned a moment ago. 622 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,640 I mean, there's not, there's not a lot of public pay phones left 623 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,160 anymore. So yeah, you kind of need a 624 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,840 phone in a sense. And I don't think many people 625 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:55,280 would know how to use them anyway, would they? 626 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:58,160 Well, our kids certainly would not, no. 627 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:00,240 It's all mine. Wouldn't have a clue. 628 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,360 Remember the Rotary phones were yet. 629 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,280 Yeah, I look like that. I want to test them one day. 630 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,840 I wouldn't be so cruel and. I'd. 631 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,600 Like to have a laugh. All right guys, on that note, 632 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,240 thank you very much for sparing some time. 633 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,960 I'm I'm sure this will be of great interest to the community. 634 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,440 Well, thank you very much. It's great to great to be here. 635 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:21,680 Thanks so much guys. Thanks a lot it. 636 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:23,160 Was a pleasure, thanks.