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Welcome to the News Navigators 
with me, Jeremy Deacon. 

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And me, Jonathan Starling. 
Jonathan in hot sweaty Bermuda, 

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me in absolutely freezing UK. 
Here at the moment it's was 13°C

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on my phone when I poor thing. 
That's awful mate, that's awful.

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I I've been, I've been wearing 
sort of protective trousers to 

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walk around undergarments that 
go down to my knees because it's

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been so cold. 
I turned off my bedroom fan last

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night. 
That's how cool. 

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You're trying to get a bit of 1 
upmanship on the weather. 

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I tell you, it's been blowing 
gales, pouring with rain, 

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absolutely freezing. 
I was quite enjoying wearing 

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long trousers, which I think I 
said before, but I've had enough

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now, the weather's getting to 
me. 

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I mean, I would urge you to 
still wear trousers though. 

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I I do occasionally, yeah, yeah,
especially when I go outside. 

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Yeah. 
Anyway, it's been a busy week I 

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or a busy few weeks and I think 
Jonathan, we both talked before 

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and we thought that the one of 
the biggest issues was the whole

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education reform and what is 
happening there seems to be, I 

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don't know what you think, an 
enormous amount of confusion 

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about whether there is going to 
be a three tier system in 

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education, A2 tier or a hybrid, 
don't know. 

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But I thought looking at this 
yesterday and today, I thought 

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it would be interesting and 
useful for our listeners and our

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viewers. 
Now, just to quickly recap on 

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education reform, I don't know 
what you think, Jonathan, but I 

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think to put it into context, 
this goes back to 2017, doesn't 

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it? 
Yeah, I mean, I'm confused by 

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the current situation, so I 
think a recap would be very 

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helpful for setting the context.
Well, I think the word confuse 

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sums it up. 
I think everybody is. 

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Anyway, if you look back, so in 
2017, the Minister of Education,

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it was Diallo Rabaine at the 
time introduced Plan 2022. 

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Now that was the strategic plan 
for public school education and 

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it was meant to be, it was set 
out to be a long term blueprint 

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which was going to transform the
education, public education 

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system in Bermuda apparently. 
And I remember at the time there

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was a lot of community input, 
including from parents, union 

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students, the education people, 
the unions, etcetera. 

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And it set goals to be 
implemented for the 

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infrastructure, the type of 
schools, what outcomes are 

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expected from students, 
etcetera, etcetera. 

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The idea was under that there 
was a commitment, and it was an 

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election commitment that the 
school system was going to move 

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from three tiers, primary, 
middle and senior, to two tiers,

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primary through to year 8 and 
then senior schools. 

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So a lot of middle schools were 
going to be, all the middle 

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schools will be phased out. 
There were going to be signature

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learning programs, which you've 
seen at Cedar Bridge and 

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Barkley. 
Clearwater was meant to be an 

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environmental signature learning
school, wasn't it? 

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And before I left, I didn't see 
anything happening at 

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Clearwater's. 
I don't know what's happened 

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with that. 
The parish primary schools, 

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they're going to be expanded 
years 1 to 8 and well, we're 

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still waiting to see what's 
happened. 

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So that's that's a little bit of
context about it. 

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Now we know earlier this month 
that there was there were 

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meetings at Francis Patton 
Primary School in Dalwood. 

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And there it seemed to be 
revealed that Plan 2022 was 

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going to do a bit of AU turn and
it was going to be like a 

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different plan all together in 
that middle schools were 

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probably going to continue or 
they were going to be termed 

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lower secondary satellite 
schools. 

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Parish primary schools would 
revert back to P1 to P6 rather 

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than expand to Year 8. 
And some closures may be 

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reversed or delayed. 
Now, of course, that completely 

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contradicted what Plan 2022 was 
originally about. 

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So the reaction has been quite 
something. 

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The parents, not surprisingly, 
have expressed complete 

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confusion, the word we used at 
the beginning of all this, and 

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not a not a little bit of anger,
which can't really blame them 

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because it does appear on the 
face of it to be a rather sudden

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change of direction. 
Now that also, of course, 

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culminated in in action by a 
demo by pupils, if you remember,

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who said we are not experiments 
and there were pupils at 

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France's pattern. 
The union said that the 

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statements coming out of those 
meetings did not align with what

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the teachers have been told and 
they were worried about the 

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disruption and the uncertainty. 
And they accused the government 

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at the time of failing to engage
in proper consultation contrary 

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to agreements. 
Now at this stage I remember 

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commenting, Jonathan, that the 
Minister of Education, Crystal 

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Caesar had needed to come out 
and start communicating because 

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there was an utter balls up in 
the communication here and this 

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would all comes down to the 
communication. 

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So she came out and acknowledged
concerns but insisted that no 

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final decisions had been made, 
which you know, OK. 

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And she said that there was an 
active feedback gathering phase 

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that quite all that means when 
they were consulting with 

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internal, external stakeholders.
Now to me, I wasn't clear about 

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what that feedback gathering 
phase was. 

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Was that on what the apparent an
apparent U-turn on Plan 2022 or 

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was it continuation of 
consultation on Plan 2022? 

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And as I mentioned before, 
there's been plenty of 

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consultation. 
And she also promised a better 

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update, a clearer update mid 
February next month. 

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So that was a potted history. 
And I hope I explained that is a

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lot to explain. 
If you look back at 20179 years 

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worth of explaining to do to me,
there's, you know, a couple of 

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things that come out of here. 
And then what are the issues 

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raised from the last few weeks 
are what they say and what the 

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bigger picture is. 
And the question of trust I 

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think is really important here. 
The I think longer term, short, 

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medium, long term, there's 
betrayal of trust or a lack of 

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trust now in what government 
actually wants to do. 

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I'm going to continue here, 
Jonathan, because I'm on a roll.

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At least I think I'm on a roll. 
Our listeners and viewers maybe 

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is switched off already. 
Is it a policy retreat? 

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So, you know, this is one of the
issues raised from what's 

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happened in the last few weeks. 
Is it a policy retreat? 

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Is it AU turn? 
We don't know. 

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And that's not being made clear.
I think the minister's statement

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probably confused things even 
more. 

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As I mentioned earlier on, 
there's been a massive 

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communications failure here. 
I mean, this is textbook, If 

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you're in PR or comms of what 
not to do, it's absolutely 

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textbook as far as I'm 
concerned. 

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And you know, you're looking at 
these mixed messages. 

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You're looking what appears to 
be an abrupt shift. 

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And as I said, they've helped to
undermine public trust. 

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When the minister finally came 
out to me, her comments were 

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reactive and they were made 
because of the backlash rather 

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than kind of pre emptively 
ensuring alignment and clarity. 

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I don't know whether she was 
taken by surprise at the 

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messages coming out, those 
public meetings at the schools 

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or whether those giving the 
briefings got it wrong, though 

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it's hard to imagine that they 
got it totally wrong because 

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presumably they were the 
education officials. 

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And I think it suggests that, 
well, responsibility for 

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decision making. 
Where is that? 

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Where is that at the moment? 
Who is making the decisions 

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here? 
And then there's a little matter

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of course of the somewhat 8 and 
a half million that we spent on 

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those education consultants from
Australia. 

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Now if we really are doing AU 
turn U-turn on plan 2022, we 

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spent millions to get back to 
square 1. 

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And I think what was really 
interesting when I read the 

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story in The Gazette, which 
originally broke, broke this 

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issue, is that it's been 
described as, well, we're now 

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calling a dog a cat. 
Well. 

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That's. 
In relation to the middle 

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schools, right? 
Basically, yeah. 

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But I mean, that was a central 
plank, wasn't it, to get rid of 

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the middle schools. 
It was a central plank to get 

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rid of them. 
So I don't know, John Jonathan, 

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that's that's my thoughts. 
I've got bigger questions that 

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it raises, but I don't know what
your thoughts are so far. 

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I can come back to the bigger 
questions later on. 

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Well, I mean, it's been said 
before, I forget who first kind 

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of coined it, but they said it 
probably around 2010 or 

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something that the Education 
Ministry is a bit of a poisoned 

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chalice. 
It's a, it's a big, it's a big 

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issue. 
And for quite some time the 

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reform of the education system 
has been kind of kicked out, the

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cans being kicked down the road 
a bit. 

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So when the PLP started, when 
they got re elected in 2017, 

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they, they were really ambitious
with their plans for the reform.

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So on the one hand it was good 
that they were, that it was 

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finally being addressed and no 
longer kicked down the road. 

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The whole process has not been 
ideal since. 

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Was it 2022 when the whole thing
really got off the ground after 

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COVID? 
Yeah, it hasn't been ideal, but 

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I think there's been a lot of 
question marks over the the 

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amount of money available for 
school reorganization and stuff 

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like that. 
And you know, I mentioned 

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Clearwater that was going to be 
down for an environment place, 

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but nothing's happened. 
I mean, I would say personally, 

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I never fully understood or 
agreed with the concept of 

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signature schools. 
And the reason I say that is 

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because I think kids are too 
young to really be deciding on 

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what they want as a future 
career. 

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Especially men. 
Especially boys. 

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Yeah, our our brains do develop 
a bit slower. 

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It comes down to a philosophy of
education. 

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For me, education should be 
about creating a rounded 

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individual with a good general 
knowledge and a good kind of 

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critical thinking. 
And of course, if any student 

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displays a particular aptitude 
for this or that, then I would 

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have hoped that the education 
authorities would encourage them

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and provide them with the 
resources to support them with 

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that. 
But that's why I was kind of 

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critical of the signature 
schools per SE. 

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To me that was saying that 
education is about choosing what

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kind of worker you want to be 
for the rest of your life, 

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whereas to me education was 
about making you a very rounded 

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whole human, if that makes 
sense. 

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So that's. 
Why? 

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I no, it does make sense. 
I was actually really confused 

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by the issue of signature 
schools initially, and this 

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might be my mistake. 
I thought it was going to be the

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whole school, you know, or a 
large part of the school 

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dedicated to, to these subjects,
but it turned out that it was. 

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You can pick that subject if you
like, you know it wasn't going 

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to be the entire ethos of the 
school I. 

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Was quite surprised. 
Confused me further as well. 

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I mean again, that was just my 
general thought on signature 

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schools, but if they were going 
to do it then OK. 

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I don't have a kid in the 
schools at the moment. 

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I've got a godson and and a 
niece who are in the schools, 

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but I don't directly have any 
children in the school. 

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So I kind of took a back seat 
just to see how the education 

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was going to go. 
Any reform can be good or bad. 

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Even if I disagree with the 
idea, it doesn't mean it's a bad

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idea. 
It just means I was 

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philosophically not convinced by
it. 

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But I will say that the the 
whole process has been rocky 

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throughout. 
I mean, we saw how, what was it?

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West End Primary and there was 
another school as well, St. 

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George's Wrap, I want to say. 
One it was Saint Davies wasn't 

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It was a big U-turn on Saint 
David. 

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'S right. 
So there were issues raised 

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throughout that honestly, I 
think really understood it 

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because me, I don't really have 
much of an emotional connection 

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with my armor matter with my, my
old school, especially not my 

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primary school, but there's 
different histories in different

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sections of the community. 
I had this from primary all the 

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way to seniors. 
So just to put that out there as

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a qualifier. 
So I, I, I didn't fully 

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understand that emotional 
connection, but I do understand 

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the history, especially with 
segregation. 

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Some schools were the white 
schools, some schools were the 

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black schools. 
The white schools obviously got 

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the better location and the 
better infrastructure, you know,

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so there's that history. 
There's a lot of history. 

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I I understand the emotional 
part of it, having covered many,

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many stories where where parents
are being protested at their 

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00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,440
school closure, partly because 
it's, you know, part of the 

229
00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:19,680
community. 
It's a central part of the 

230
00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,480
community and they don't want to
see it go. 

231
00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,640
It's the start of the 
degradation of that community. 

232
00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:26,840
It's like you lose your school, 
you lose your post office, you 

233
00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,520
lose your local pub. 
But it would be that case in the

234
00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:31,560
UK. 
So I totally get the emotional 

235
00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:32,920
attachment. 
To it, I get it. 

236
00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:34,880
Intellectually, I'll put. 
It there, Yeah. 

237
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:38,080
Yeah, sure. 
Yeah, No, I do get that. 

238
00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:42,600
And I having covered dozens of 
school protests about closures, 

239
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:44,400
I kind of understand what 
they're coming from. 

240
00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:51,280
So so they did the consultations
and part of it was a matrix to 

241
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,600
decide on the infrastructure, 
which schools were best to keep 

242
00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:57,080
type thing. 
I do think they should have 

243
00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,320
included more of the cultural 
aspect, which they did go back 

244
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,280
and revive. 
I did go back, yeah. 

245
00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:06,280
However, it wasn't clear if they
went and rescored every school 

246
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:08,560
or just the schools where people
were protesting. 

247
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,080
Correct, which added another 
layer of confusion over the 

248
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,280
whole process. 
And I, and you know, there are 

249
00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:16,080
other schools could have kicked 
up and said, well, if you're 

250
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,320
rescoring, you should rescore 
all of us. 

251
00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,440
I was actually surprised that 
other schools didn't protest 

252
00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,200
after that. 
And, and maybe they did, maybe 

253
00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,640
they did rescore everyone. 
It just wasn't clear to me. 

254
00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:33,720
And I, I think it's important to
note that there are, as I 

255
00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:39,360
understand it, there's the 
ministry is not a monolith. 

256
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,920
It's not a monolith. 
You have a communication 

257
00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,960
strategy for the Ministry of 
Education, but there was also a 

258
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,320
separate communication strategy 
for education reform. 

259
00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:53,040
So you have two different 
communication narratives or 

260
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:57,320
strategies going on and. 
I almost 3, almost 3 actually. 

261
00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,880
If you talk about the 
consultants as well, what you've

262
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,880
looked at is what you've 
identified is something I was 

263
00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:06,520
going to come on to. 
There were three different sects

264
00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:10,400
of people here, a reform unit, 
the consultants and the 

265
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:14,160
ministry. 
Now, I've, I talked to a lot of 

266
00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:18,200
people involved about this and, 
and I I can never write a story 

267
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,280
on it because I could never get 
enough information. 

268
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:26,520
So with that proviso before I 
say this, but there seem to be a

269
00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:30,400
lot of antipathy between the 
three groups and they wouldn't 

270
00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,080
talk to each other. 
You know, you're laughing. 

271
00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:34,920
You, you probably heard the same
thing. 

272
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:41,320
And I think, yeah, and, and that
has probably helped to negate a 

273
00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,200
lot of work. 
He's probably stalled progress 

274
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,280
on things. 
Obviously, there's a bunch of 

275
00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:48,120
silos. 
Obviously, there are people 

276
00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:53,800
saying, no, my idea is right. 
Whether that's fed into what has

277
00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:55,520
happened in the last few weeks, 
I don't know. 

278
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,680
But all is not well, clearly, 
and hasn't been for a while 

279
00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,360
within education. 
So you're talking about a calm 

280
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,600
strategy, yes, but the three 
units can't agree. 

281
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,000
Yeah. 
So there wasn't any, as far as I

282
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,160
can tell from the outside 
looking in, there's no one 

283
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:13,720
unified communication strategy. 
And it's not clear to me that 

284
00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:17,280
even if there is communication 
strategy, if the official 

285
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:19,520
announcements are part of that, 
are they actually listening to 

286
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,040
the advice of the communication 
plan? 

287
00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,440
I don't know. 
I mean, you've worked in PR 

288
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,440
before, you've had cases where 
you've come up with a 

289
00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,680
communication strategy and then 
your client goes rogue, right? 

290
00:17:31,120 --> 00:17:32,720
Yeah, I'm not going to go into 
detail. 

291
00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:36,520
This brings back bad memories. 
So. 

292
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:37,920
Nights. 
Sleepless nights. 

293
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,760
So that that's why, just in case
the communications strategists 

294
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,600
are listening, I'm not 
necessarily throwing the blame 

295
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:45,600
on them. 
I don't. 

296
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,520
Know. 
I don't understand the 

297
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,520
situation. 
I'm, I'm not throwing the blame 

298
00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,840
on any of them because I think 
there needs to be leadership 

299
00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,160
from the top. 
Pull these all these people 

300
00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,040
together and you know, bang a 
few heads if needs be. 

301
00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:00,600
But I wonder, going back to 
that, Jonathan, I wonder if 

302
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,080
that's the root cause of what 
happened. 

303
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,680
The one con strategy says, yeah,
go and announce what's happening

304
00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,360
at these two meetings at Francis
Patton and Dalwood and it's all 

305
00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:12,280
good because this is what's 
going to happen. 

306
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,280
Then somebody else says, Oh my 
goodness me, no, we don't want 

307
00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:17,040
to release that. 
We shouldn't release that. 

308
00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,120
So let's have a different con 
strategy and put this out from 

309
00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:23,240
the minister saying it's still 
ongoing whichever way makes 

310
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:27,000
shambles. 
Yeah, I mean as I don't, I've 

311
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,960
read through the different 
reports, the press releases 

312
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,880
recently, I'm confused. 
I don't know what's going on. 

313
00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:35,520
So a. 
Real problem. 

314
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,440
And you and I are pretty. 
I mean, the whole point of the 

315
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:42,160
podcast is news navigators. 
We read the news and try to help

316
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:43,920
people navigate it. 
And we're confused. 

317
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,200
And you can imagine the average 
person on the streets even more 

318
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,480
confused here. 
Oh, Rudder is broken. 

319
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,120
We don't know where we're going.
Yeah, we can't really help you 

320
00:18:52,120 --> 00:18:56,080
navigate this one. 
But we can give a perspective. 

321
00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,400
Yeah, I mean. 
We can't explain the confusion, 

322
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:05,960
if nothing else. 
Yeah, and it didn't help that 

323
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:12,040
the premier, of course, was he 
was overseas at Davos last week,

324
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,720
so he couldn't even respond. 
I mean, he shouldn't have to. 

325
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,120
The minister is there. 
The Minister of Education is the

326
00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:22,320
one responsible for education. 
I'm looking forward to her 

327
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:24,800
coming out and helping to 
clarify this issue. 

328
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,400
She she give an interview on ZBM
and one to the RG. 

329
00:19:30,120 --> 00:19:34,560
To me neither of them went far 
enough to clarify what is 

330
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,600
actually happening. 
I think they were both fairly 

331
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:42,080
the usual type of political 
interview where the subject 

332
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,360
matter was steered away with non
answers. 

333
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,680
I mean, I will say I have. 
By the way, Jonathan, I have 

334
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,520
invited her personally. 
She follows the news navigators 

335
00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,640
Crystal Caesar on on LinkedIn. 
I've I've messaged her this 

336
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,720
morning and I did e-mail DCI. 
That's the Department of 

337
00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:58,920
Communications of Information 
asking for an interview. 

338
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,720
I've not heard back yet though. 
I am not actually going to hold 

339
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:03,680
my breath. 
No, I mean, I quite like 

340
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,960
minister of Caesar and I do hope
that she takes this opportunity 

341
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,680
to come and help us, help us 
understand and help our 

342
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,080
listeners understand. 
I mean, the, the most optimistic

343
00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,520
scenario, or I don't want to 
call it spin because it's not my

344
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:20,920
job to do the spin, but my most 
optimistic interpretation of 

345
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:25,000
what's going on is that they 
realize that maybe their 

346
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:30,920
ambitions or aspirations for the
reform were too, too, too 

347
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,960
optimistic compared to the 
reality on the ground. 

348
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,240
And so there's nothing wrong 
with saying we're going to take 

349
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,240
a pause, we're going to step 
back. 

350
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,400
We're not going to be able to do
the reform in the time frame we 

351
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,360
have previously communicated. 
And there's always going to be 

352
00:20:44,360 --> 00:20:46,400
that case where you got to RIP 
off the Band-Aid and it's going 

353
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,920
to cause pain no matter what. 
That's the most optimistic 

354
00:20:50,360 --> 00:20:52,200
interpretation I could put 
forward. 

355
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,480
But if you're going to do that, 
you need a clear communication 

356
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,560
strategy where you anticipate 
the questions that are going to 

357
00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:00,400
come from this and the 
reactions. 

358
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,280
And I just feel that that has 
not occurred in this case. 

359
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:08,680
For whatever reason it just 
doesn't seem to have happened 

360
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:10,600
and I don't. 
Know it hasn't and I think 

361
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,120
statements that I've seen that 
muddied the waters because 

362
00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:15,360
talking about further 
consultation with all 

363
00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:19,840
stakeholders consultation on 
what because we've had all the 

364
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:23,360
consultation you need on the 
original plan 2022. 

365
00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:27,120
We saw that because it was 
started to be implemented the 

366
00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:31,040
minister when she came in after 
the election put everything on 

367
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:35,680
pause started again. 
So what is it being what is 

368
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:39,640
being consulted on? 
I don't know. 

369
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:43,920
And I think, you know, we, we 
could, I do think that because, 

370
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:49,720
because education as we know in 
Bermuda is so important and 

371
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,600
because in the past that the 
education ministry was a real 

372
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,760
revolving door. 
I remember being at The Gazette 

373
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,440
and I think they've been 
something like 11 ministers in 

374
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:02,280
10 years or something. 
This was going back ten years or

375
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:04,160
so. 
It's been such a revolving door 

376
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:08,520
that I honestly think 
government, government generally

377
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,280
has lost a lot of credibility 
over this because it's been a 

378
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,800
cock up. 
Well, I, I will say that, you 

379
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,840
know, when the PLP came into 
power, I think the former 

380
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:20,520
Minister of Education, Minister 
Diallo Rabain, he was the 

381
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:25,600
minister pretty much since 2017 
until 2025. 

382
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,920
So there were, sorry. 25 
election. 

383
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,960
Yeah, well, there were, they're 
absolutely, I totally agree and 

384
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,360
credit to them. 
And the Oba was just as bad. 

385
00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:36,840
Don't get me wrong, I think they
had four different ministers in 

386
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:37,600
their time. 
They did? 

387
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,600
Yeah, a year. 
Yeah, it really was actually. 

388
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,120
Yeah, I think so. 
And the last minister there, I 

389
00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:47,120
think, and he served a couple of
months before they lost the 

390
00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:50,440
election. 
So at least for better or worse,

391
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:55,360
they're worse at least 
consistency with having a single

392
00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:57,880
minister for a long period of 
time. 

393
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,160
And it was a good idea. 
Yeah, and they. 

394
00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:02,560
Moved. 
Actually, I don't know if he 

395
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,840
asked to be moved or was moved. 
I was quite surprised because I 

396
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,640
thought he would be wanting to 
see through this. 

397
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,360
Is Diallo Rabain wanted to see 
through the Plan 2022? 

398
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,880
You know, I'd have to, we'd have
to get his, his thoughts on it. 

399
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,200
But he may not want his comment.
I think we might get steered 

400
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,360
away from the proper answer now.
I'm going, my personal view of 

401
00:23:22,360 --> 00:23:28,400
that was because he was so, so 
much the face of the education 

402
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,200
reform and the rocky period that
they had with the protests, 

403
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,960
especially from West End. 
I think that maybe for political

404
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:42,480
purposes, it was good to get a 
new face to kind of take the the

405
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,960
heat out of the education reform
process. 

406
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,800
But of course, now all of that 
heat is now directed to Minister

407
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,080
Caesar. 
And she's made it worse, or it's

408
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,920
been made worse for her. 
Yeah, I mean, I said I I still 

409
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,240
don't understand what's going on
even with the potted history you

410
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,520
gave. 
I'm still confused about the 

411
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:09,000
decisions that were made and the
the communication strategy in 

412
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:13,560
question. 
Yeah, I'm I think to me sounds 

413
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,640
like the original plan 2022 is 
being completely or will be 

414
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:22,320
completely hollowed out actually
and be end up as being a bit of 

415
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,960
a ghost framework. 
And you can understand. 

416
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,960
That in a way a shame, because 
at least on the Plan 2222 there 

417
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,960
was a direction. 
Yeah, I've had months. 

418
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:32,560
Along the way, but there was a 
direction. 

419
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,400
I completely understand the 
frustration of, you know, the 

420
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,600
parents and the educators 
because even if they didn't 

421
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,160
necessarily agree with the plan,
at least they had that plan. 

422
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,920
As you said, the direction 
everyone was working with this 

423
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,400
expectation that next year was 
going to be XY and Z and now 

424
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,840
it's AB and C. 
So a bit of a whiplash for 

425
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:56,840
parents and the educators, the 
principals to to get their head 

426
00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,640
around because now everything 
has changed or paused and no one

427
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,760
knows. 
Well, we're not quite sure. 

428
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:07,800
We think it's paused, but which 
communication plan was 

429
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,000
communicating that we we so 
frustrating. 

430
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,760
Yeah, I mean, Minister Caesar, 
if you're listening, we do hope 

431
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,720
that you come on. 
I would love to have you here to

432
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:22,200
kind of clear the air and help 
us make sense what's going on. 

433
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,280
Maybe there's very good reasons 
and we're just getting, you 

434
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,680
know, you know, the the, what's 
that game? 

435
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,840
Chinese whispers. 
Yeah. 

436
00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:35,040
Maybe that's what's happening, I
don't know, but we we're happy 

437
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,000
to help you clarify if you want 
to. 

438
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,320
Come on. 
And we'll ask you very easy 

439
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:45,960
questions. 
No, no hardball questions 

440
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:46,880
whatsoever. 
Ever. 

441
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:48,920
Tall. 
Sure. 

442
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,520
Well, on that note, fingers 
crossed. 

443
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:59,600
I mean, on, on another note 
about something that caught me 

444
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:04,720
off by surprise was while the 
premiere was at Davos, the World

445
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:09,200
Economic Forum last week and he 
gave a presentation, I think it 

446
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,280
was one of those kind of side 
presentations that happened away

447
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,600
from the mainstage. 
Yeah, it was, yeah. 

448
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,480
And he was talking about Bermuda
has ambitions to become the 

449
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:23,400
world's first fully on chain 
economy and. 

450
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:25,960
Please explain, Jonathan, please
explain. 

451
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,360
I was going to ask you to 
explain because I don't fully 

452
00:26:28,360 --> 00:26:31,240
understand what on chain economy
is. 

453
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,800
I don't. 
The best that I can understand 

454
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,120
is on chain is related to 
blockchain, which is the 

455
00:26:37,120 --> 00:26:43,440
technology which allows you to 
properly trace ownership or 

456
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,440
identification over time. 
So it's it's harder to. 

457
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,720
Glorify but very good accounting
system to speed things up. 

458
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:51,200
Right. 
So it it will. 

459
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,640
Speed that's and it will reduce 
costs. 

460
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:56,360
The idea will help to reduce 
costs. 

461
00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:59,480
As well, Yeah, by making things 
more digital so you can like I 

462
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,760
think they gave the example of 
TCD, you can go in you yeah, 

463
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,880
can't do things more online in a
sense. 

464
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,200
You you, you can get your 
blockchain out of your wallet 

465
00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:13,040
and pay and hand over a Bitcoin.
Yeah, they were talking about a 

466
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:14,680
statement. 
No, I'm being facetious. 

467
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,880
Now, I don't fully understand 
all of that technology. 

468
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,240
I'm I'm not a, I'm not an old 
fogey. 

469
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:29,160
I'm not as old as Jeremy here, 
but I'm not a techie person, 

470
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,720
I'll put it that way. 
I just figured out to set up a 

471
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,120
DVD player when they stop 
issuing them if that helps. 

472
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,760
So look, OK, I'm not going to 
lie here, right? 

473
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,480
I actually use my friend 
ChatGPT. 

474
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:47,320
See, I don't even use that. 
Well, I'm getting used to using 

475
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,280
it. 
And so I had to, I had to get 

476
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:51,720
ChatGPT. 
I thought it was quite 

477
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,680
appropriate, being a modern 
technology to ask what the hell 

478
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,680
this meant. 
So he says the world's the 

479
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,760
intention is to be the world's 
first fully on chain national 

480
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,280
economy. 
So according to Chat, this means

481
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,680
that everyday financial 
activity, payments, transfers, 

482
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,400
business transactions would be 
recorded and processed on 

483
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,240
blockchain technology. 
No, I think blockchain 

484
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,640
technology has actually been 
around for quite a long time 

485
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,320
now. 
And as I said, I think it's a 

486
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,920
glorified accounting system that
helps to speed things up. 

487
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,440
So you're getting around things 
like the banks doesn't do the 

488
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,040
banks. 
So you're getting around all 

489
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:31,840
those kind of fees that you 
would get with the bank. 

490
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,080
If you do a transaction on a 
credit card, you get charged a 

491
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:35,600
percentage, don't you? 
And stuff like that. 

492
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,280
And you have to pay for the 
privilege of having a, for a, 

493
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,360
for a, for a credit card. 
So I I'm sure there's people out

494
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,800
there who are going to say this 
is complete bollocks, but I 

495
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:45,520
don't know. 
We'll see. 

496
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:50,040
I think that I think it can work
and I think you can save a lot 

497
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:54,440
of costs and make things a lot 
more frictionless, as I think 

498
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,160
it's phrased. 
But I do think it's going to 

499
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,200
need a lot of public education 
and people to get used to it. 

500
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,360
I understand that it's going to 
be voluntary initially. 

501
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:06,600
Yes. 
I don't really know how we're 

502
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,320
going to be a national one if 
it's voluntary, because given 

503
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,720
our demographics and I'm, I, you
know, and I'm and I'm getting 

504
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,560
there myself. 
And I said this with greatest 

505
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,320
respect to all those people my 
age or all older. 

506
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,880
But I imagine a lot of us are 
going to be quite resistant to 

507
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,240
this, mainly because of fear of 
not understanding it. 

508
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,640
I remember when the story came 
out on the RG and I posted a 

509
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,720
comment and I'm saying good 
grief please please I'm just 

510
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,720
hanging on by my fingernails 
now. 

511
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,920
With technology and I didn't 
have my children I would have 

512
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,720
fallen. 
I think it probably might cause 

513
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,960
a bit of distress or 
misunderstanding from older 

514
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:45,520
people. 
I. 

515
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,680
Mean, I think we're going to 
have to retain the older system 

516
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:52,880
for some time. 
So we're not going to 

517
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,520
necessarily see the saving cost 
because not everyone is going to

518
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,000
adopt it. 
But for the early adopters, I 

519
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,800
mean, over time, people are 
going to phase out and it's 

520
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,560
going to be more phased in, I'll
put it that way, as the 

521
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,560
demographics change. 
I'll be phased out mate, I'll 

522
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,800
tell you. 
But I don't, I mean, that's one 

523
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:14,400
side of it. 
I mean there is a serious side 

524
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,320
of it that you know, we've heard
a lot about fraud and security 

525
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,800
with blockchain stuff, you know,
cryptos, I suppose I don't 

526
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,560
that's the same kind of stuff. 
We've, we've heard a lot about 

527
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:30,160
those and like we said that you 
know, if you want these 

528
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:34,240
so-called digital wallets and 
stuff like that, well, you've 

529
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,680
got to understand it. 
We've kind of touched on that a 

530
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:41,160
little bit and we need to have a
very clear framework. 

531
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,280
Presumably the BMA, if it isn't 
already has to work on the 

532
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,200
regulations and oversight of how
this is going to happen. 

533
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,320
So to me, if it does happen, 
it's a voluntary thing. 

534
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,680
If it's going to get get some 
traction, there's a lot of 

535
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,760
things to do before it's going 
to get anywhere near being the 

536
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,040
national thing. 
I mean, I think it is 

537
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,120
potentially good. 
I mean, there's a lot of hype 

538
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,040
and stuff around blockchain and 
Bitcoin and all of that. 

539
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,400
It is a bit of a bubble, but 
there are valid uses to it. 

540
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,480
And I think that what is being 
proposed will benefit the 

541
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:17,040
country over time and, you know,
not just the public service, but

542
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,840
also the individual customers of
the public service, you know, 

543
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,040
the public. 
So it's just a matter of that 

544
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,760
education and getting used to 
it, I guess, and making. 

545
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:26,400
Sure. 
What's the? 

546
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,360
Best purpose? 
What's kind of interesting is 

547
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,240
that this has been hailed, it's 
been in partnership with 

548
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,760
Coinbase. 
And who are the other guys? 

549
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,160
Coinbase? 
Let me just go back to my notes 

550
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,320
'cause I can't remember. 
Is it Penrose? 

551
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,360
Coinbase and Circle, that's 
right, Circle set up an office 

552
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,840
here or the incorporated here 
some time ago. 

553
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:51,200
What's interesting to me is I've
not seen this kind of thing make

554
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:56,640
news anywhere else. 
Yeah, and it's already been a 

555
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,640
leader. 
But sometimes it's better 

556
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,760
following when he can see other 
people's mistakes. 

557
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,080
Yeah. 
I mean, at the same time, I, I 

558
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,320
do think it's worth taking the 
risk on some things at times 

559
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,800
from you to can be too 
conservative and won't adopt 

560
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,240
things early because they want 
to see how it plays out. 

561
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,080
And I get it. 
That does make sense for some 

562
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,800
things, but I'm not against this
also experimenting and trying 

563
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:24,360
new things either and being 
innovative. 

564
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:30,800
I will say I personally am going
to have to research it more and 

565
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:36,720
I hope that we, we've, we've had
people on talking about AI 

566
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:38,840
before and this is something I 
think we're going to need to 

567
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:40,040
get. 
An extra? 

568
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,840
I think so, yeah. 
Yeah, hopefully. 

569
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,880
I don't know if people at 
Coinbase or Circle listen to 

570
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,280
this, but if they do, please 
drop us a line because we'd love

571
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,280
to have you on and talk about it
a little bit more. 

572
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,280
We really would. 
In In the meantime, Jonathan, 

573
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:57,160
when I get back from the UKI 
look forward to seeing you get 

574
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,040
your digital wallet out and buy 
me a beer with a Bitcoin. 

575
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,240
All right, I don't have a 
digital wallet, but I'll need to

576
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,280
figure out how to get one. 
Well, you've got until the end 

577
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,360
of March mate to work it out and
I should be very impressed if 

578
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,480
you if you take me to the 
swizzle in and buy me a a beer 

579
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,880
with a digital wallet. 
Interestingly, there are there 

580
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,080
is some like uneven adoption of 
these kind of technologies. 

581
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,200
So take a Rock Island Cafe for 
example. 

582
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:27,840
It's a it's a cafe in on Reed 
St. in the middle of the city of

583
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,680
Hamilton. 
You can only pay with cash 

584
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:33,360
there. 
You can't pay with like a debit 

585
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,000
or a credit card. 
They don't accept that because 

586
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:41,440
of the cost of the pay the POS, 
the point of service payment 

587
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:45,920
system but and however pay with 
Bitcoin I believe there. 

588
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,440
Don't you really? 
Yeah, they they accept, I think 

589
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,160
it's Bitcoin, they might accept 
one of the other digital 

590
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,880
currencies and I'm saying that 
and I'll go there tomorrow and 

591
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:56,160
find out. 
I was wrong, but that's my 

592
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,440
understanding. 
I've heard people say that they 

593
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,400
can pay with Bitcoin there, but 
they can't pay with a debit 

594
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,720
card. 
So there are some places that 

595
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:10,880
are already accepting these kind
of cryptocurrencies, I guess. 

596
00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:15,679
I see. 
I could I go back to, you know, 

597
00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:19,320
I'm 63 in May and I just want to
carry on as I am. 

598
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,440
I don't want any more tech being
thrown in my face. 

599
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,480
Thank you. 
I hear you. 

600
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,239
I'm stuck in the mud. 
I guess a lot of our listeners 

601
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,040
probably are as well. 
I mean that in the nicest 

602
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,960
possible way. 
Well, I mean, you're, you're 

603
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,440
embracing AI pretty well and 
you're using it for the podcast.

604
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,000
So you know it's. 
Good I am. 

605
00:34:38,679 --> 00:34:43,679
I'm intrigued by how to teach AI
actually. 

606
00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:48,639
I spent a lot of time teaching 
it and feeding it information 

607
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:50,639
and what to do and what not to 
do. 

608
00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:54,000
The results are pretty good I 
have to say. 

609
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:58,160
Although I do find that there is
a need for constant reminders. 

610
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,280
I haven't seen it hallucinating.
It made a name up once, which is

611
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,720
rather bizarre. 
That's the only hallucination 

612
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:07,840
I've seen. 
But yeah, I'm actually, I'm 

613
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:08,960
actually quite impressed with 
it. 

614
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,640
It's OK. 
I use it quite minimally love 

615
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,120
for research. 
And even that I'm careful 

616
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:21,320
because I ask it to always cite 
its sources so I can go and it's

617
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,320
not some jackrabbit.com taking 
me down to Google rabbit hole, 

618
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,680
you know, and that it is a 
recognized source and I and I 

619
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,000
click on the link. 
So yeah, it's OK. 

620
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,000
It's OK. 
A lot more to come from it, I 

621
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:36,280
think. 
But that's we've done a little 

622
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,120
podcast on that. 
Maybe we should do it again 

623
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,080
because it's been so much 
progress since then. 

624
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:45,880
Really has anyway. 
So if you know about digital 

625
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,080
wallets and you've got an 
opinion about digital wallets 

626
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,560
and if you can correct 
everything that we've said 

627
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,120
that's wrong, we'd really like 
to know. 

628
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,040
You can get us on any social 
media. 

629
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:01,280
You can message us there or it's
thanheisnow@gmail.com. 

630
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,680
I think, Jonathan, I think we 
both exposed our ignorance, so 

631
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,880
maybe we should get out while 
we're still slightly ahead on 

632
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,520
blockchain and crypto and on 
chain technologies. 

633
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,800
What do you think? 
Yes, we will study and get back 

634
00:36:17,720 --> 00:36:19,720
and to help people navigate 
these things better. 

635
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,320
And you're going to buy me that 
pint. 

636
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,880
Sure. 
May the March the 3rd OK, I'll 

637
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:28,840
be over my jet lag and I'll meet
you with. 

638
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,000
Us I might give you a digital 
pint, a non fungible token of a 

639
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,160
pint. 
Sounds disgusting. 

640
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,480
All right mate. 
On that note, take care. 

641
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:43,680
All right, bye. 
See you. 

642
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:44,240
Bye.