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Welcome to another episode of 
The News Navigators with me, 

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Jeremy Deakin. 
And me, Jonathan Starr. 

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We're going to talk today about 
Rd. safety. 

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We've been talking about whether
we should discuss this for some 

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time and I think the turning 
point was probably the the news 

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of the very tragic death of a 19
year old boy this week. 

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My son is 19. 
I really can't imagine the pain 

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that the family's going through.
And I know, Jonathan, I'm sure 

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you're with me on this, that we 
we send our deepest sympathies 

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to his family. 
Yeah, of course. 

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I can't even imagine. 
No, no, I like to say. 

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My son's 19 and I can't imagine 
losing him, let alone in 

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horrible circumstances like 
that. 

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Nonetheless, I, I still think 
that even given that we should 

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talk about Rd. safety, it does 
bring it to the fore again. 

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This, this was the second fatal 
accident already this year 

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running on what, February the 
4th? 

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Also, it was kind of prompted, I
think by Gina Spence, who's the 

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founder of the Gina Spence 
program, who's holding the 

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second annual Grief and loss 
awareness Day. 

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And according to an article in 
the RG about this, there was a 

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quote we've said in the small 
island community, like Bermuda, 

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the ripple effect is enormous. 
When someone is killed in our 

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rows, it touches classrooms, 
workplaces, churches, friendship

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circles and entire 
neighborhoods. 

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The grief doesn't stay 
contained. 

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It spreads quietly and deeply. 
And I totally agree with that. 

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It affects every facet of this 
of of society. 

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I think you know where there was
a a seat in the classroom that's

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now empty, a Pew in a church 
that's now empty, the empty seat

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at the dinner table. 
It just takes its toll awfully. 

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Now, I've been known to talk a 
lot about Rd. safety when you 

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and I are blogs, Jonathan. 
Many, many, many years ago, I 

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was a regular writer on road 
safety and I kind of get a bit 

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upset. 
What I see is a real lack of 

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action on what if it was an 
epidemic we'd be throwing money 

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at as we did with COVID. 
And if you just look at some of 

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the stats, so in 2022, for 
instance, there were 11 Rd. 

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deaths, 2313 Rd. deaths. 
You're averaging between 1997 

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and 2017, just every 11 Rd. 
deaths a year. 

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You know that that's just some 
of the stats. 

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But you can see that over the 
last decade really we're seeing 

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between 10 and 15 deaths on the 
road a year. 

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And that doesn't include the 
many injuries. 

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And that's another thing all 
together. 

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So if you look at the injuries, 
so in for instance, in 20/19/94 

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Rd. crash victims needed 
hospital treatment, that is 

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astonishing number, an 
absolutely astonishing number. 

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You know, in 20, 2016 people 
admitted to intensive care 

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assuming they survive, but 
that's again an astonishing 

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number. 
So you to me, you kind of look 

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at all that and then you look at
well, what's been done to help. 

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And there's the Bermuda Rd. 
Safety Council. 

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Now there's a phrase in the UK, 
Jonathan, you're probably 

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familiar with it, about as 
useful as a chocolate fire 

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guard, right? 
Or a chocolate kettle, some 

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people say as well. 
And with respect to the Road 

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Safety Council, that's my view 
of them. 

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You know, when I was a 
journalist at The Gazette, they 

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had a monthly campaign. 
It would be, Please remember to 

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put your lights on or something 
to that effect. 

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Just useless. 
I mean, what kind of teeth do 

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they have to affect things or? 
Well, I was going to come on to 

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that. 
I think they have very little 

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teeth. 
I think they have very little 

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teeth. 
And I think that's one of the 

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problems as well. 
I think, I think their budget is

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in the region of 25 grand a 
year. 

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So it's meaningless, you know, 
so they they really do have 

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their hands tied and I was going
to make that caveat later on. 

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You've made me do it now. 
I think we've had, we had 

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Operation Vega, you remember it 
was a police thing that was. 

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A couple of years back now. 
That was a couple of years back 

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now, I think, yeah. 
But in the end, you know, there 

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was a story in The Gazette and 
I'll read you the first 

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paragraph, it said. 
A police campaign launched more 

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than three years ago to crack 
down on poor driving habits has 

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had some successes but failed 
overall to reduce the number of 

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crashes and fatalities on 
Bermuda's roads. 

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So it didn't work. 
Obviously the RG had his own 

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drive for change which went on 
for about a year. 

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But there's no kind of apart 
from Operation Vega, there's no 

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that I could see coordinated 
multi year if you like statutory

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plan to deliver a message about 
safer driving on the roads. 

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And this isn't just bike riders,
this is cars, this is lorries. 

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I mean, you take the bus and I 
think you're very sensible. 

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When I get behind the wheel, I 
drive defensively. 

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So my old man always used to say
treat everybody on the road like

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an idiot and you'll be fine. 
So I treat everybody on the road

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in Bermuda like an idiot. 
So I anticipate what's going on,

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but I'm not sure that kind of 
that kind of approach goes 

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across the board. 
And obviously we've got 

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speeding, we've got drink 
driving, inattention, unsafe 

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practices as causes. 
Although Jonathan, again, sorry,

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this is turning to a Jeremy 
Deacon run. 

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I apologise again. 
When we come in down to the 

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causes and we've talked about 
this in the past, we don't have 

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inquests so we can't be 100% 
sure of the causes or at least 

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the causes aren't made public. 
So we don't know if there's one 

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bolt missing on a bike, for 
instance. 

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There probably isn't. 
But I did see that the the AG, 

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Kim Wilkinson, said they were 
going to start reviewing the 

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the. 
It's a review. 

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Corner inquiry. 
Person. 

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Yeah, it's a review. 
Yeah, it's a starting place, 

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right? 
It's a starting place, but it's 

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way, way overdue. 
Yeah. 

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You know, decades overdue, quite
why they were phased out. 

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It's beyond me, although I can 
only, I can only think that it's

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because of the, the problems the
courts are facing as well at the

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moment. 
As we know, there's, there's a, 

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a big backlog. 
So that to me, I try to put it 

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kind of in context quite 
quickly. 

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You know what the solutions are.
We can go on and on and on about

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this. 
I will say that drink driving 

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here in Bermuda is socially 
acceptable. 

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If you're in the UK and you 
drink drive, you're a pariah. 

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Isn't it a 0 zero blood alcohol 
tolerance in the UK? 

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Right, you can't. 
Even I remember, to be honest 

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it's very low anyway, but I, I 
remember a story and I'm not 

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going to name names here, but 
somebody was having a dinner 

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party and all his guests were 
drinking. 

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They all got their keys to go 
out to their cars and he took 

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all the keys off them because he
couldn't believe what they were 

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doing. 
And these were well educated, 

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professional people, right? 
So this is, it is socially 

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acceptable. 
Now there's been massive 

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campaigns in the UK which 
worked. 

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As I said, you're a pariah if 
you drink drive. 

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I can't think of anything like 
that happening in Bermuda. 

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I still see a lot of Rd. designs
are wrong. 

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You're aware of the camber 
effect where the side of the 

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road, the the road is, is kind 
of facing the wrong way if you 

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like, it's sliding down the 
wrong way. 

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So if you turn a corner, you're 
you're more likely to come off a

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bike. 
And I see a lot of those still 

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around. 
I see a lack of roundabouts. 

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I see a lack of traffic lights. 
I look at T St. and Middle Rd. 

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the junction there is notorious 
accident black spot. 

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What we got there, there is one 
tiny sign on the wall that says 

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accident black spot. 
There is nothing else to 

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actually help you help the 
driver avoid a crash or there's 

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nothing stopping the driver 
avoiding the crash. 

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You know, I drove, I drove home 
in the dark down Harbour Rd. and

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I saw a lot of lights out. 
I see proper Rd. markings 

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missing, often in the middle of 
the road. 

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There are no cat's eyes. 
There are no roadside markings. 

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And then we have community 
resignation to it. 

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We're immune to it. 
And I will say, and I have 

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spoken to a senior police 
officer about this in the past, 

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the police don't respect the 
speed limit. 

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They don't respect the law. 
A lot of them, not all of them. 

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Obviously, it goes without 
saying, and I'm talking about 

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the law in terms of speeding. 
I'll tell you a story, Jonathan,

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that I was driving down Kinley 
Field Rd. 

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Police car overtook me, right? 
I slowed down to 50 and KPH, he 

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overtook me. 
So he's breaking the law. 

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I happened to follow him, right?
Just so it happened that our 

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roots went the same way. 
He pulled over to the 

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supermarket to go and do his 
shopping. 

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But I saw him take overtaking me
when I was, you know, doing 50, 

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the unofficial speed limit. 
So I thought, well, how on earth

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can I respect the law when those
enforcing the law don't respect 

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it, You know, and there are so 
many things that are wrong that 

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absolutely need address it. 
Rant over. 

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I'll give you 2. 
I'll give you 2 minutes. 

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No, I, I feel there's a, there's
a lot to unpack there. 

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I mean, as you said, I, I tend 
to use the bus mostly. 

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I just personally, I can't, it's
not economical or ethical for me

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as a single person to have a 
car, you know, in terms of the 

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carbon footprint and the actual 
cost off the vehicle, even for a

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bike. 
I live on a main bus route, so 

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it's fine. 
But even on the, the bus, I 

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mean, just the other day I was 
on the bus, the number 10 or 11 

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going along North Shore. 
And, you know, just after 

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Jennings land in Smith's, 
there's that kind of this very 

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bendy part of the road. 
And, you know, this guy on a 

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motorbike zipped right through 
us, overtook the bus. 

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Even though there was oncoming 
traffic, the bus had to hit the 

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brake. 
And of course, you know, 

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everyone was all, like, 
whiplashed a little. 

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So I mean, yeah, I mean, I've 
been on the bus when there's 

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been a crash as a result of 
that. 

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And it's traumatic for the bus 
driver and for the passengers. 

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Well, this is it, isn't it? 
This is this is one of the 

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issues that it's not just the 
the people themselves, it's the 

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trauma that other people have. 
Yeah, and and. 

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That's not necessarily hit. 
That's not necessarily a 

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hospital thing. 
It might be a hidden thing where

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they go home or they take, you 
know, days off work because of 

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the trauma. 
Yeah, I mean, amongst my friend 

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group, this group, we we do go 
out and have drinks 

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occasionally. 
I will say my friends are at 

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least they seem to have, they 
have these little breathalyzers.

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I think you can buy them in 
Phoenix and after drinking they 

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all test their breath to see 
who's, you know, got an 

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acceptable blood alcohol limit 
to drive. 

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And if, if we don't have, if no 
one, if anyone is too high, they

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don't drive. 
If everyone is too, too high to 

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drive, then we just go for a 
walk around the neighborhood 

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until their blood levels are 
down. 

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But I recognize not everyone is 
that responsible. 

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That's probably. 
I've actually got an issue with 

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those actually go on. 
There was there was a lot of 

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discussion in the UK when they 
first came around. 

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I remember it and there was a 
feeling that OK, that's it 

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sounds great on the face of it 
and I'm not criticizing your 

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friends. 
I'm sure they're extremely 

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responsible. 
But a lot of people will say, 

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oh, I'm just below the limit, 
I'll have another one. 

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Right. 
You know, usually there's. 

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Around that in the UK. 
Yeah, it's whoever's got the 

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lowest level is the one that 
drives. 

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So even if they're all below the
level, whoever is the lowest 

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level is the one. 
Who will drive? 

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Like I said, I'm sure your 
friends are completely 

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responsible, but there are those
people and it was reported on 

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fully in the UK at the time when
they were just below the limit. 

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Oh, I can have another one. 
So they thought they were OK, 

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but I put them over the limit, 
but they didn't measure it. 

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So, you know, but I think to me,
Jonathan, this is, this is where

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we need a government that does, 
this is where we need a 

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00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:28,560
government that leads. 
If people aren't obeying the 

224
00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:33,680
law, if there are stuff like Rd.
safety infrastructure that can 

225
00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:38,880
be put in place to save lives 
and injuries, if there is a road

226
00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:43,000
safety that can be done, that's 
mandate Rd. safety education. 

227
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,080
I should say that's mandatory in
schools. 

228
00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:50,360
If you say let's raise the 
driving age for bikes to 18, 

229
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,960
These are the things that I 
think the government, whether 

230
00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:57,600
it's in the UK, Bermuda, 
whatever, should lead on and 

231
00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:59,800
impose. 
People have argued with me, 

232
00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,680
that's Big Brother. 
I don't care if it saves lives 

233
00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:09,040
and injuries, some of which are 
life changing and eventually 

234
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,040
costs. 
You know we talk about health 

235
00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,440
insurance. 
Well, if we can choose the 

236
00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:19,320
amount of health insurance paid 
on road accidents, maybe our 

237
00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,800
premiums will come down. 
Well, I mean, it raises the 

238
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,360
question and you've touched on a
few of the possible solutions is

239
00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,360
what can be done. 
Obviously, there's the 

240
00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,240
infrastructure issue. 
We know that there they're 

241
00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,440
getting a new asphalt plant soon
so that they should be able to 

242
00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:37,040
repair a lot more of the 
potholes. 

243
00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,080
I'm thinking when I say 
infrastructure, I'm thinking 

244
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,680
roundabouts, traffic lights, 
stuff like that, speed bumps. 

245
00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,480
I think the Rose issue is 
possibly a bit of a red herring 

246
00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:50,680
in terms of safety. 
I don't know. 

247
00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,160
We don't have inquests. 
I don't know. 

248
00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:57,720
But I'm looking at my own 
driving experience and seeing, 

249
00:14:57,760 --> 00:14:59,800
you know, places like the 
junction of T St. and Middle 

250
00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:03,440
Road and having this ridiculous 
tiny sign saying accident black 

251
00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,680
spot. 
I mean it all it is is a black 

252
00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:10,080
spot in a red triangle. 
Why not put a roundabout in 

253
00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:13,000
there? 
I mean, I'm not a road engineer,

254
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,760
I would have to look and see 
what's possible in each. 

255
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,360
There's many roundabouts all 
over the world. 

256
00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,680
Yeah, yeah, I agree. 
You know, and I, I just see a 

257
00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:26,240
lack of willingness. 
I really do. 

258
00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:33,720
I don't understand why there 
isn't more, just why there isn't

259
00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:37,560
more anger over this, why there 
isn't more get up and do over 

260
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,000
this to actually get a solution 
down there. 

261
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,320
I mean, it would be interesting 
to. 

262
00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:48,040
I'm putting on my economic hat 
here to for a cost, best cost 

263
00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,840
benefit analysis. 
Apart from the trauma, the 

264
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,440
emotional, the the deaths, apart
from all of that, you can kind 

265
00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,840
of monetize it to find out what 
the costs off all these. 

266
00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,360
Days off, health insurance, 
stuff like that, cost of damage 

267
00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,240
to buses or whatever. 
But what you can't, what you 

268
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:06,680
can't measure, is the grief. 
I agree. 

269
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:09,800
There is no measurement for 
that. 

270
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,520
And that kind of brings us back 
to, you know, what we what we 

271
00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:17,400
were talking about to start all 
this off really is what Gina 

272
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,640
Spence is doing, the grief and 
loss awareness day. 

273
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,480
And that is, I want to say March
the 6th at City Hall March. 

274
00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,480
The sixth, Yeah, yeah. 
And she wants people to wear 

275
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:28,640
orange, I believe. 
I think you're right. 

276
00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:29,880
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

277
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,760
But you can't measure that. 
No, I mean you can 

278
00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,120
qualitatively, but not 
quantitatively. 

279
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:38,920
No, but. 
And the consequences of that are

280
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,160
something else. 
It stays with you forever. 

281
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,280
And there's also a number of 
people who end up with a 

282
00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,320
disability as a result of these 
injuries as well, which has 

283
00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:49,960
added costs, healthcare as well 
as. 

284
00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:51,480
Exactly loss. 
Productivity. 

285
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:54,840
And also then of course, you've 
got carers that you need for 

286
00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:58,920
that person, and those carers 
don't really get any financial 

287
00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,800
aid where they're putting 
multiple hours every day, 

288
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,599
perhaps having to give up a job 
to care for people like that. 

289
00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,599
Which is that ripple effect you 
were talking about. 

290
00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,560
It's a massive ripple effect, 
which is why I just simply don't

291
00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,839
understand why there's not more 
progressive action on this. 

292
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,400
I think part of it is what 
you've already alluded to, that 

293
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,920
there's kind of a cultural 
acceptance or cultural 

294
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:28,079
resignation about it. 
So I think that needs a cultural

295
00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:30,040
change. 
I mean, we know that song 

296
00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:34,720
Permutings Love to Drink. 
It's a nice song, but you can 

297
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,000
see how that reinforces this 
cultural attitude, right? 

298
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:42,160
I totally agree, but I go back 
to what I said before that there

299
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,760
was a massive campaign in the UK
which successfully made drink 

300
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:49,680
drivers a pariah. 
You can change people's 

301
00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:53,040
mindsets. 
But I, I remember it now and I, 

302
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,680
and I hate to mention it to be 
honest, because it involved that

303
00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:01,960
disgusting sexual predator, 
Jimmy Savile, and at the time 

304
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:03,960
when he was a national hero and 
everything. 

305
00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:08,360
And I remember it to this day, 
the clunk click campaign. 

306
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,720
And it was like, I think the 
theme of it was that like 

307
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:17,000
something like 50% of accidents 
happened with 200 yards of 

308
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,120
getting home. 
Don't forget to clunk Click to 

309
00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:24,600
put your seat belt on. 
I remember it, you know, and we 

310
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:26,120
don't have that kind of 
campaign. 

311
00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:28,720
Obviously it's different now 
because you've got social media 

312
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,160
and stuff like that, but I don't
see that kind of thing 

313
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,800
happening. 
We did have something similar in

314
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,200
the the 90s when they changed 
the rules so that we had to wear

315
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,040
seatbelts. 
So we did do a massive campaign 

316
00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,880
on that and now it's kind of 
everyone just puts their seat 

317
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,880
belt on. 
So it did work on that way. 

318
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:47,920
Well, what about, OK, good 
point. 

319
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,000
But what about things like using
your cell phone? 

320
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,760
That's illegal? 
Where's the campaign stop that I

321
00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,880
see when I'm driving in Bermuda?
I see people doing it all over 

322
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:57,600
the place. 
I've seen police officers doing 

323
00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:59,960
it. 
That that goes back to my point,

324
00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:02,720
Jonathan. 
How can people expect to respect

325
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,440
the law if those and enforcing 
the law don't respect it? 

326
00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,640
I, I, I did speak to his senior 
police officers a couple of 

327
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,560
years ago about it. 
And he just was pulling his hair

328
00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:15,320
out over this. 
He said, look, you've got to go 

329
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,560
out on the road. 
You're the ambassadors on the 

330
00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:19,240
road. 
You've got to respect the law. 

331
00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:22,320
Doesn't happen. 
And again, that's a cultural 

332
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:26,080
thing, but you can change that. 
One thing that was good, which I

333
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:30,440
I believe is no longer 
operating, or maybe it only 

334
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,360
operates in the summer, but they
was, I think it was called the 

335
00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:38,600
drunk bus and it operated from 
town and went one went E 1 went 

336
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:40,520
W. 
It didn't go like directly to 

337
00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,360
your house, but it went along 
the main road and close enough 

338
00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:46,040
to wherever you needed to go 
that you could walk. 

339
00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:50,160
Because you know, the buses, 
they stop running at 11:45. 

340
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,920
And if you're still on the pub 
drinking and how are you going 

341
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,000
to get home? 
If you kind of, I mean, getting 

342
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,040
a taxi is a whole other issue. 
Has a whole other podcast. 

343
00:19:58,080 --> 00:19:59,440
I. 
Was about to go there, yeah. 

344
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:05,200
Yeah, but then your choice is to
sleep somewhere on the street, 

345
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:11,880
walk several miles in the dark, 
or got on your bike, which are 

346
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,720
all not great options. 
So it would be good if there 

347
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:18,640
were more bus operations. 
Or you go out with your friends 

348
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,160
and have a delegated driver. 
Yep, designated driver 

349
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:24,840
designated. 
Driver, sorry, not delegated. 

350
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,240
Same thing. 
But again, that's a cultural 

351
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:32,160
thing, isn't it? 
It's an education thing. 

352
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,840
I went out with my, I went out 
with my mates and one of us was 

353
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:40,200
a designated driver but it had 
been drummed into us that you 

354
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:44,520
don't drink and drive. 
I I'm showing my age here, but 

355
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:49,800
when I turned 18 and I of all 16
to get a bike, I we just had to 

356
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,400
pass a multiple choice thing at 
TCDI always remember, the 

357
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,200
question is what do you do when 
you're overtaking a horse, you 

358
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:56,840
know? 
Do you beep? 

359
00:20:57,760 --> 00:20:59,680
Do you beep? 
Do you slap the horse on his 

360
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:01,400
butt? 
Do you drive slowly? 

361
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:03,640
You know, it was those kind of 
questions. 

362
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,800
Then you had to show that you 
could drive between these cones 

363
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,080
kind of thing, and that was 
about it. 

364
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,520
I mean, there is now things like
I want to say it's called 

365
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:16,440
Project Ride, but they're not 
mandatory. 

366
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,560
Project ride is fine, my 
daughter went on it the 

367
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,760
disadvantage which has been 
corrected but I don't think it 

368
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,440
started yet was it was never on 
the roads. 

369
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:32,400
It was in TCD car park but I 
think they've amended that and I

370
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,200
I can't quite understand why 
it's only just happened. 

371
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,240
The kids have been taught on the
roads now. 

372
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,040
Why? 
Why just now there's no 

373
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,920
explanation to me is why it's 
taken so long to do that. 

374
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:48,320
When when I was living in 
Scotland, I saw how they were 

375
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,280
training people to ride 
motorbikes there. 

376
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,280
I don't think it's mandatory, 
but they had this, they had the 

377
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,680
instructor, he had a helmet and 
the helmet's got a two way radio

378
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:02,560
communication in it with the the
the other, the learners, the 

379
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,880
students following behind. 
And I did see that operating 

380
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,360
once in Bermuda. 
I don't know how common it is, 

381
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,360
but. 
I I believe there was a charity 

382
00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:14,440
that did that. 
Right, but none of it is going 

383
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,880
to be mandatory of course. 
So maybe there's the need for 

384
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,360
more mandatory yes, driving 
training. 

385
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,000
I think in America in school, 
don't they teach you how to 

386
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,600
drive a car? 
There's like a driving class or 

387
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,080
something I. 
Honestly don't know but it 

388
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,080
should be mandatory yeah to go 
on the roads. 

389
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:33,480
For like motorbikes and stuff we
also have, although we have a 

390
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:37,640
lower population, we now we 
still have the same amount if 

391
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,920
not more vehicles operating on 
the roads, which is interesting 

392
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,800
as well. 
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. 

393
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,320
And driving habits all over have
got worse, it seems. 

394
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:49,120
The police have said that as 
well. 

395
00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:53,600
Since COVID, they've noticed a 
decrease in driving habits 

396
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,360
getting worse. 
I wonder why that is. 

397
00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:57,640
Do you think people just didn't 
get a lot of practice when they 

398
00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:59,240
were during the pandemic or 
something? 

399
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,880
I don't know. 
Don't know, pent up frustration.

400
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,400
I don't know, seems to have 
carried on. 

401
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,880
It's really weird. 
But you know, I was, I was 

402
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,080
walking around the hole where 
I'm staying at the moment and we

403
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,800
talk about motorbike training. 
There was a bunch of kids, about

404
00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:16,600
10 of them I think, who were on 
their push bikes being trained 

405
00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:20,880
right on the road. 
You know, it starts that early 

406
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:26,240
now, I think I don't remember 
Misha Fubler, I think tweeted 

407
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:27,720
once. 
One of the reasons we have a 

408
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,920
problem is that kids don't get 
on their push bikes in Bermuda. 

409
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,640
And I responded straight away. 
So there's no way I'd ever put 

410
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,520
my kids out on a push bike on 
the roads in Bermuda. 

411
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,360
But the point being, they were 
being trained very early, very 

412
00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:43,320
early in life about recognizing.
I think you're frozen there, 

413
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:51,080
Jeremy. 
Oh dear, I think my Co host is 

414
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,160
frozen. 
So I don't know if the entire 

415
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,120
thing is. 
Frozen or just me? 

416
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:02,360
We might have to come back to 
this discussion, see if he comes

417
00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:05,120
back to me or not. 
Nope. 

418
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,400
The wonders of modern Technology
8 when you're doing it from 

419
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:15,680
Bermuda to the UK. 
Well, I'm very sorry about that.

420
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:25,640
Technology. 
Don't you just love it? 

421
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,400
Oh, he's back. 
Hello, Jonathan, Are you back? 

422
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,560
Good. 
Yeah, I thought you were the one

423
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,120
that were frozen at first, so I 
was talking to stall until you 

424
00:24:34,120 --> 00:24:37,160
reconnected, but it turns out it
was me that was frozen. 

425
00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:40,680
Sorry listeners, viewers, 
technology. 

426
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,600
You were talking about push 
bikes and you're right, you 

427
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,000
don't see a lot of kids on push 
bikes anymore. 

428
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,680
In my neighborhood is pretty big
and there's a lot of speed 

429
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,040
bumps, so I do still see kids on
push bikes, but it's very 

430
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,800
infrequently. 
A lot of them are on the 

431
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,880
electric bikes and they kind of 
joyride and do the puppy 

432
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:02,480
wheelies along the stretch 
around by my house. 

433
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,120
That's an interesting 1, 
Jonathan as well. 

434
00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:07,320
There's a lot of those electric 
bikes and I see them, they go 

435
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,120
almost as quick or as quick as 
ordinary bikes. 

436
00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:13,280
And I probably need to bring 
some legislation in for that 

437
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:14,480
fairly soon. 
Yeah. 

438
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:21,960
Anyway, I mean, I would love to 
know, we would love to know your

439
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,160
thoughts on road safety. 
We'd like to hear your horror 

440
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,640
stories, actually. 
I know that sounds terrible but 

441
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,960
we've all got a story to tell 
about roads on 

442
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:38,480
bermudaletusknowemailthenewsnavs@gmail.com
or on all the social media 

443
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,840
platforms. 
So leave us a message and give 

444
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,840
us your ideas as well on what we
can do on this. 

445
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:52,720
You know, 11/12/13 deaths a year
is is awful, is absolutely awful

446
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:54,640
for an island the size of 
Bermuda. 

447
00:25:58,120 --> 00:26:00,720
Jonathan, you wanted to talk 
very quickly about Admiralty 

448
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,520
House, did you? 
Well, I just thought our, our, 

449
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:05,840
our listeners should be aware 
that there's a public 

450
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,800
consultation going on for 
redevelopment off the the 

451
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,480
buildings there. 
I haven't been up to Amity House

452
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:16,160
for some time, but those 
buildings have always been kind 

453
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,760
of ruined as far as I can 
remember going back to the 80s. 

454
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,520
I think they were just kind of 
shut down in the late 70s and 

455
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,480
just left to deteriorate. 
But yeah, there's public 

456
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,200
consultation on. 
So if anyone is interested, it's

457
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,600
a very popular park and it would
be really interesting to see 

458
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,960
what those buildings can be used
for for community purposes going

459
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,720
forward. 
It's got an interesting history,

460
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:43,240
hasn't it? 
1816, apparently it was first 

461
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:49,000
established and it is a relic of
Bermuda's colonial past, which 

462
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,040
is kind of interesting. 
And it was the official 

463
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,640
residence, I believe, for the 
senior officer of the British 

464
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,920
Royal Navy's North America and 
West Indies Station. 

465
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:00,800
Yep. 
And very. 

466
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,040
Popular for balls, ballroom 
dancing. 

467
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:09,120
Very popular indeed and a lot of
significant stuff down there. 

468
00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:12,880
The Dundonald Tunnel, connecting
to Clarence Cove and all these 

469
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,760
kind of things which are really,
really interesting. 

470
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:20,560
And it's a fantastic park, never
mind a fascinating building. 

471
00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:26,000
And you know, to have it as some
sort of Community Center or 

472
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,560
something for the community 
along with that park could be a 

473
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,440
major, major addition to that 
area. 

474
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,320
Spanish Point, isn't it? 
Agree. 

475
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,520
Fantastic. 
I was thinking I need to go over

476
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,160
there on the weekend just to 
walk around. 

477
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,000
I haven't been up there for 
probably 10 years now, but it's 

478
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,880
a fantastic park. 
I haven't been up there since 

479
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,760
the kids were quite little. 
We used to go to the harbour 

480
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,600
down there and walk out on a 
split and jump in and it was 

481
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,720
fantastic. 
It was, it was a really, really 

482
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,600
nice place to go, very 
sheltered, very safe, really 

483
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,280
good fun. 
So if you could do something on 

484
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,920
that it'd be great. 
Do you know Jonathan going to 

485
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:04,760
put you on the spot here? 
Do you know where you people can

486
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,760
respond? 
To oh, you know, I did have it. 

487
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,360
I don't have give me a second to
find it. 

488
00:28:10,360 --> 00:28:17,880
I have it written down 
somewhere, I want to say it's at

489
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:23,800
forum.gov dot BM and the public 
consultation is open until end 

490
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:27,200
of day February 13th. 
OK, there we go. 

491
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,240
Have your say. 
It's a really, really nice, 

492
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,760
important, important part of 
Bermuda. 

493
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:39,360
I just said despite colonial 
past, I just want to say that if

494
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,520
you want to learn more about the
events that Gina Spence is 

495
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:50,680
organizing, you can e-mail 
info@gspcharity.com. 

496
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:58,800
It is on March the 6th from 
12:00 PM to 2:00 PM on the City 

497
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,760
Hall steps. 
And you're right, Jonathan, 

498
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,600
people have been asked to wear 
orange. 

499
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:09,480
Please attend. 
And I guess the the other big 

500
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:14,240
news just to prepare for it's 
not really out yet is we have 

501
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,480
budget coming up around February
the 20th is the budget debate. 

502
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,080
So that's something we'll be 
keeping an eye on. 

503
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:26,200
And around it around that same 
time, the joint Select 

504
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:30,000
Committee, the parliamentary 
committee that was set up to 

505
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:35,000
review the the ransom attack, 
the cyber attack on a Bermuda a 

506
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,160
couple years ago now, they said 
that they are looking to table 

507
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:44,240
their report on that cyber 
attack either just before or 

508
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,960
just after the Budget debate. 
So I think we're certainly going

509
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,240
to be looking forward to reading
over that report and trying to 

510
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,480
give a, a review of it for this.
Can I just? 

511
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,160
Clarify, Jonathan. 
Are they tabling it or are they 

512
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,240
going to give it to the Speaker 
of the House? 

513
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:05,880
So Lawrence Scott, who is the 
chair of the joint Select 

514
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,840
Committee, he was saying that 
they are going to provide it to 

515
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:14,280
the Speaker of the House around 
that time and I believe he said 

516
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,640
it would be laid before before 
Parliament. 

517
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:23,560
I need to go back and look at 
the exact wording, but the too 

518
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,320
late before Parliament would 
mean it would be made public at 

519
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:30,040
that point, although of course 
certain confidential aspects 

520
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,760
might not be made public. 
You, you know this kind of thing

521
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,640
better than me and I just, I 
wondered if giving it to the 

522
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker automatically meant that
it would be tabled for the 

523
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,840
public in the House of Assembly.
I would say it does not mean it 

524
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:48,360
automatically is tabled, but I I
seem to recall him saying that 

525
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,560
it would be laid before 
Parliament. 

526
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,480
I'm just going to the article 
now to see if I can find. 

527
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:59,000
No, I think you're right. 
I'm just intrigued because he 

528
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,040
did say, because we interviewed 
him obviously last year about 

529
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,600
this, if you remember. 
And he did say at the time he 

530
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,160
gave us an update on his work 
and he was going into all the 

531
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,960
details of what happened and why
it happened, the ransom, 

532
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,720
etcetera, etcetera. 
Now, these are all details that 

533
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,880
the government has steadfastly 
refused to make public. 

534
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,840
Yeah. 
And I can see the rationale for 

535
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,160
that until they've done their 
the investigation itself. 

536
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,800
And it is possible I would need 
to check my Robert's rows of 

537
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,840
orders, but it is possible to do
a closed session of Parliament, 

538
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,960
I think, if they feel that the 
information to be discussed is 

539
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:43,560
not for public consumption. 
So I think, you know, and I only

540
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,240
mean that in the case if they 
reveal information in it that 

541
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,040
cyber hackers might be able to 
exploit going forward. 

542
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,360
I mean, the joints of that 
committee made a point to say 

543
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,080
that they've actually been doing
this kind of old school using 

544
00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:01,600
typewriters and handwritten 
documents just to avoid hackers 

545
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,000
having access to the 
information. 

546
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,440
It would be quite interesting 
that if it was revealed how much

547
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:11,520
government did pay, if they paid
for a ransomware, I can't 

548
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:13,720
imagine that being made public 
because it would encourage 

549
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,200
others to say, well, we'll ask 
for that as well. 

550
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,840
You gave it to them. 
Exactly, which is why I do think

551
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,560
some of the report will 
definitely be made in be in the 

552
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:26,880
public domain, but I expect that
certain aspects will be under 

553
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,200
like you know, a national 
security embargo. 

554
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,440
It has to be, which is why I 
wondered the process, whether 

555
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,120
the Speaker would say, can't 
table all this, we're going to 

556
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,840
have to redact it or have a 
closed session of the House or 

557
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,680
whatever before it was actually 
tabled in the House. 

558
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,760
Yeah. 
I mean, my interpretation is 

559
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,640
that some form of the report 
will be made publicly available.

560
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,800
Yeah. 
But Lawrence Scott told. 

561
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:55,360
Us. 
I don't know. 

562
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,360
But he didn't actually say how 
much. 

563
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,680
I'm really intrigued given the 
secrecy around it all. 

564
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,520
Some necessary, some you might 
argue not so necessary. 

565
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,640
We will see. 
It'll be an interesting Newsday 

566
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:10,440
that one. 
We might have to do a On the 

567
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,360
Spot podcast. 
Looking forward to it until we 

568
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,360
get half yourself ourselves, 
definitely. 

569
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,080
Do it for the budget. 
Yeah. 

570
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:20,360
Definitely. 
That'll be good fun. 

571
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,200
We did that last year, didn't 
we, which is good fun. 

572
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,840
OK, well, on that note, 
Jonathan, I am. 

573
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:33,000
What time is it? 
It is 20 to 7 UK. 

574
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,720
It is time for my supper. 
All right, well, pleasant 

575
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,400
appetite listeners, look forward
to seeing you next time. 

576
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:46,560
All I can say is thank goodness 
for M&S food, pleasant appetite.

577
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:47,920
Take care. 
See you. 

578
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:48,640
Bye.