Welcome to another episode of The News Navigators with me,
Jeremy Deakin. And me, Jonathan Starr.
We're going to talk today about Rd. safety.
We've been talking about whether we should discuss this for some
time and I think the turning point was probably the the news
of the very tragic death of a 19 year old boy this week.
My son is 19. I really can't imagine the pain
that the family's going through. And I know, Jonathan, I'm sure
you're with me on this, that we we send our deepest sympathies
to his family. Yeah, of course.
I can't even imagine. No, no, I like to say.
My son's 19 and I can't imagine losing him, let alone in
horrible circumstances like that.
Nonetheless, I, I still think that even given that we should
talk about Rd. safety, it does bring it to the fore again.
This, this was the second fatal accident already this year
running on what, February the 4th?
Also, it was kind of prompted, I think by Gina Spence, who's the
founder of the Gina Spence program, who's holding the
second annual Grief and loss awareness Day.
And according to an article in the RG about this, there was a
quote we've said in the small island community, like Bermuda,
the ripple effect is enormous. When someone is killed in our
rows, it touches classrooms, workplaces, churches, friendship
circles and entire neighborhoods.
The grief doesn't stay contained.
It spreads quietly and deeply. And I totally agree with that.
It affects every facet of this of of society.
I think you know where there was a a seat in the classroom that's
now empty, a Pew in a church that's now empty, the empty seat
at the dinner table. It just takes its toll awfully.
Now, I've been known to talk a lot about Rd. safety when you
and I are blogs, Jonathan. Many, many, many years ago, I
was a regular writer on road safety and I kind of get a bit
upset. What I see is a real lack of
action on what if it was an epidemic we'd be throwing money
at as we did with COVID. And if you just look at some of
the stats, so in 2022, for instance, there were 11 Rd.
deaths, 2313 Rd. deaths. You're averaging between 1997
and 2017, just every 11 Rd. deaths a year.
You know that that's just some of the stats.
But you can see that over the last decade really we're seeing
between 10 and 15 deaths on the road a year.
And that doesn't include the many injuries.
And that's another thing all together.
So if you look at the injuries, so in for instance, in 20/19/94
Rd. crash victims needed hospital treatment, that is
astonishing number, an absolutely astonishing number.
You know, in 20, 2016 people admitted to intensive care
assuming they survive, but that's again an astonishing
number. So you to me, you kind of look
at all that and then you look at well, what's been done to help.
And there's the Bermuda Rd. Safety Council.
Now there's a phrase in the UK, Jonathan, you're probably
familiar with it, about as useful as a chocolate fire
guard, right? Or a chocolate kettle, some
people say as well. And with respect to the Road
Safety Council, that's my view of them.
You know, when I was a journalist at The Gazette, they
had a monthly campaign. It would be, Please remember to
put your lights on or something to that effect.
Just useless. I mean, what kind of teeth do
they have to affect things or? Well, I was going to come on to
that. I think they have very little
teeth. I think they have very little
teeth. And I think that's one of the
problems as well. I think, I think their budget is
in the region of 25 grand a year.
So it's meaningless, you know, so they they really do have
their hands tied and I was going to make that caveat later on.
You've made me do it now. I think we've had, we had
Operation Vega, you remember it was a police thing that was.
A couple of years back now. That was a couple of years back
now, I think, yeah. But in the end, you know, there
was a story in The Gazette and I'll read you the first
paragraph, it said. A police campaign launched more
than three years ago to crack down on poor driving habits has
had some successes but failed overall to reduce the number of
crashes and fatalities on Bermuda's roads.
So it didn't work. Obviously the RG had his own
drive for change which went on for about a year.
But there's no kind of apart from Operation Vega, there's no
that I could see coordinated multi year if you like statutory
plan to deliver a message about safer driving on the roads.
And this isn't just bike riders, this is cars, this is lorries.
I mean, you take the bus and I think you're very sensible.
When I get behind the wheel, I drive defensively.
So my old man always used to say treat everybody on the road like
an idiot and you'll be fine. So I treat everybody on the road
in Bermuda like an idiot. So I anticipate what's going on,
but I'm not sure that kind of that kind of approach goes
across the board. And obviously we've got
speeding, we've got drink driving, inattention, unsafe
practices as causes. Although Jonathan, again, sorry,
this is turning to a Jeremy Deacon run.
I apologise again. When we come in down to the
causes and we've talked about this in the past, we don't have
inquests so we can't be 100% sure of the causes or at least
the causes aren't made public. So we don't know if there's one
bolt missing on a bike, for instance.
There probably isn't. But I did see that the the AG,
Kim Wilkinson, said they were going to start reviewing the
the. It's a review.
Corner inquiry. Person.
Yeah, it's a review. Yeah, it's a starting place,
right? It's a starting place, but it's
way, way overdue. Yeah.
You know, decades overdue, quite why they were phased out.
It's beyond me, although I can only, I can only think that it's
because of the, the problems the courts are facing as well at the
moment. As we know, there's, there's a,
a big backlog. So that to me, I try to put it
kind of in context quite quickly.
You know what the solutions are. We can go on and on and on about
this. I will say that drink driving
here in Bermuda is socially acceptable.
If you're in the UK and you drink drive, you're a pariah.
Isn't it a 0 zero blood alcohol tolerance in the UK?
Right, you can't. Even I remember, to be honest
it's very low anyway, but I, I remember a story and I'm not
going to name names here, but somebody was having a dinner
party and all his guests were drinking.
They all got their keys to go out to their cars and he took
all the keys off them because he couldn't believe what they were
doing. And these were well educated,
professional people, right? So this is, it is socially
acceptable. Now there's been massive
campaigns in the UK which worked.
As I said, you're a pariah if you drink drive.
I can't think of anything like that happening in Bermuda.
I still see a lot of Rd. designs are wrong.
You're aware of the camber effect where the side of the
road, the the road is, is kind of facing the wrong way if you
like, it's sliding down the wrong way.
So if you turn a corner, you're you're more likely to come off a
bike. And I see a lot of those still
around. I see a lack of roundabouts.
I see a lack of traffic lights. I look at T St. and Middle Rd.
the junction there is notorious accident black spot.
What we got there, there is one tiny sign on the wall that says
accident black spot. There is nothing else to
actually help you help the driver avoid a crash or there's
nothing stopping the driver avoiding the crash.
You know, I drove, I drove home in the dark down Harbour Rd. and
I saw a lot of lights out. I see proper Rd. markings
missing, often in the middle of the road.
There are no cat's eyes. There are no roadside markings.
And then we have community resignation to it.
We're immune to it. And I will say, and I have
spoken to a senior police officer about this in the past,
the police don't respect the speed limit.
They don't respect the law. A lot of them, not all of them.
Obviously, it goes without saying, and I'm talking about
the law in terms of speeding. I'll tell you a story, Jonathan,
that I was driving down Kinley Field Rd.
Police car overtook me, right? I slowed down to 50 and KPH, he
overtook me. So he's breaking the law.
I happened to follow him, right? Just so it happened that our
roots went the same way. He pulled over to the
supermarket to go and do his shopping.
But I saw him take overtaking me when I was, you know, doing 50,
the unofficial speed limit. So I thought, well, how on earth
can I respect the law when those enforcing the law don't respect
it, You know, and there are so many things that are wrong that
absolutely need address it. Rant over.
I'll give you 2. I'll give you 2 minutes.
No, I, I feel there's a, there's a lot to unpack there.
I mean, as you said, I, I tend to use the bus mostly.
I just personally, I can't, it's not economical or ethical for me
as a single person to have a car, you know, in terms of the
carbon footprint and the actual cost off the vehicle, even for a
bike. I live on a main bus route, so
it's fine. But even on the, the bus, I
mean, just the other day I was on the bus, the number 10 or 11
going along North Shore. And, you know, just after
Jennings land in Smith's, there's that kind of this very
bendy part of the road. And, you know, this guy on a
motorbike zipped right through us, overtook the bus.
Even though there was oncoming traffic, the bus had to hit the
brake. And of course, you know,
everyone was all, like, whiplashed a little.
So I mean, yeah, I mean, I've been on the bus when there's
been a crash as a result of that.
And it's traumatic for the bus driver and for the passengers.
Well, this is it, isn't it? This is this is one of the
issues that it's not just the the people themselves, it's the
trauma that other people have. Yeah, and and.
That's not necessarily hit. That's not necessarily a
hospital thing. It might be a hidden thing where
they go home or they take, you know, days off work because of
the trauma. Yeah, I mean, amongst my friend
group, this group, we we do go out and have drinks
occasionally. I will say my friends are at
least they seem to have, they have these little breathalyzers.
I think you can buy them in Phoenix and after drinking they
all test their breath to see who's, you know, got an
acceptable blood alcohol limit to drive.
And if, if we don't have, if no one, if anyone is too high, they
don't drive. If everyone is too, too high to
drive, then we just go for a walk around the neighborhood
until their blood levels are down.
But I recognize not everyone is that responsible.
That's probably. I've actually got an issue with
those actually go on. There was there was a lot of
discussion in the UK when they first came around.
I remember it and there was a feeling that OK, that's it
sounds great on the face of it and I'm not criticizing your
friends. I'm sure they're extremely
responsible. But a lot of people will say,
oh, I'm just below the limit, I'll have another one.
Right. You know, usually there's.
Around that in the UK. Yeah, it's whoever's got the
lowest level is the one that drives.
So even if they're all below the level, whoever is the lowest
level is the one. Who will drive?
Like I said, I'm sure your friends are completely
responsible, but there are those people and it was reported on
fully in the UK at the time when they were just below the limit.
Oh, I can have another one. So they thought they were OK,
but I put them over the limit, but they didn't measure it.
So, you know, but I think to me, Jonathan, this is, this is where
we need a government that does, this is where we need a
government that leads. If people aren't obeying the
law, if there are stuff like Rd. safety infrastructure that can
be put in place to save lives and injuries, if there is a road
safety that can be done, that's mandate Rd. safety education.
I should say that's mandatory in schools.
If you say let's raise the driving age for bikes to 18,
These are the things that I think the government, whether
it's in the UK, Bermuda, whatever, should lead on and
impose. People have argued with me,
that's Big Brother. I don't care if it saves lives
and injuries, some of which are life changing and eventually
costs. You know we talk about health
insurance. Well, if we can choose the
amount of health insurance paid on road accidents, maybe our
premiums will come down. Well, I mean, it raises the
question and you've touched on a few of the possible solutions is
what can be done. Obviously, there's the
infrastructure issue. We know that there they're
getting a new asphalt plant soon so that they should be able to
repair a lot more of the potholes.
I'm thinking when I say infrastructure, I'm thinking
roundabouts, traffic lights, stuff like that, speed bumps.
I think the Rose issue is possibly a bit of a red herring
in terms of safety. I don't know.
We don't have inquests. I don't know.
But I'm looking at my own driving experience and seeing,
you know, places like the junction of T St. and Middle
Road and having this ridiculous tiny sign saying accident black
spot. I mean it all it is is a black
spot in a red triangle. Why not put a roundabout in
there? I mean, I'm not a road engineer,
I would have to look and see what's possible in each.
There's many roundabouts all over the world.
Yeah, yeah, I agree. You know, and I, I just see a
lack of willingness. I really do.
I don't understand why there isn't more, just why there isn't
more anger over this, why there isn't more get up and do over
this to actually get a solution down there.
I mean, it would be interesting to.
I'm putting on my economic hat here to for a cost, best cost
benefit analysis. Apart from the trauma, the
emotional, the the deaths, apart from all of that, you can kind
of monetize it to find out what the costs off all these.
Days off, health insurance, stuff like that, cost of damage
to buses or whatever. But what you can't, what you
can't measure, is the grief. I agree.
There is no measurement for that.
And that kind of brings us back to, you know, what we what we
were talking about to start all this off really is what Gina
Spence is doing, the grief and loss awareness day.
And that is, I want to say March the 6th at City Hall March.
The sixth, Yeah, yeah. And she wants people to wear
orange, I believe. I think you're right.
Yeah. Yeah.
But you can't measure that. No, I mean you can
qualitatively, but not quantitatively.
No, but. And the consequences of that are
something else. It stays with you forever.
And there's also a number of people who end up with a
disability as a result of these injuries as well, which has
added costs, healthcare as well as.
Exactly loss. Productivity.
And also then of course, you've got carers that you need for
that person, and those carers don't really get any financial
aid where they're putting multiple hours every day,
perhaps having to give up a job to care for people like that.
Which is that ripple effect you were talking about.
It's a massive ripple effect, which is why I just simply don't
understand why there's not more progressive action on this.
I think part of it is what you've already alluded to, that
there's kind of a cultural acceptance or cultural
resignation about it. So I think that needs a cultural
change. I mean, we know that song
Permutings Love to Drink. It's a nice song, but you can
see how that reinforces this cultural attitude, right?
I totally agree, but I go back to what I said before that there
was a massive campaign in the UK which successfully made drink
drivers a pariah. You can change people's
mindsets. But I, I remember it now and I,
and I hate to mention it to be honest, because it involved that
disgusting sexual predator, Jimmy Savile, and at the time
when he was a national hero and everything.
And I remember it to this day, the clunk click campaign.
And it was like, I think the theme of it was that like
something like 50% of accidents happened with 200 yards of
getting home. Don't forget to clunk Click to
put your seat belt on. I remember it, you know, and we
don't have that kind of campaign.
Obviously it's different now because you've got social media
and stuff like that, but I don't see that kind of thing
happening. We did have something similar in
the the 90s when they changed the rules so that we had to wear
seatbelts. So we did do a massive campaign
on that and now it's kind of everyone just puts their seat
belt on. So it did work on that way.
Well, what about, OK, good point.
But what about things like using your cell phone?
That's illegal? Where's the campaign stop that I
see when I'm driving in Bermuda? I see people doing it all over
the place. I've seen police officers doing
it. That that goes back to my point,
Jonathan. How can people expect to respect
the law if those and enforcing the law don't respect it?
I, I, I did speak to his senior police officers a couple of
years ago about it. And he just was pulling his hair
out over this. He said, look, you've got to go
out on the road. You're the ambassadors on the
road. You've got to respect the law.
Doesn't happen. And again, that's a cultural
thing, but you can change that. One thing that was good, which I
I believe is no longer operating, or maybe it only
operates in the summer, but they was, I think it was called the
drunk bus and it operated from town and went one went E 1 went
W. It didn't go like directly to
your house, but it went along the main road and close enough
to wherever you needed to go that you could walk.
Because you know, the buses, they stop running at 11:45.
And if you're still on the pub drinking and how are you going
to get home? If you kind of, I mean, getting
a taxi is a whole other issue. Has a whole other podcast.
I. Was about to go there, yeah.
Yeah, but then your choice is to sleep somewhere on the street,
walk several miles in the dark, or got on your bike, which are
all not great options. So it would be good if there
were more bus operations. Or you go out with your friends
and have a delegated driver. Yep, designated driver
designated. Driver, sorry, not delegated.
Same thing. But again, that's a cultural
thing, isn't it? It's an education thing.
I went out with my, I went out with my mates and one of us was
a designated driver but it had been drummed into us that you
don't drink and drive. I I'm showing my age here, but
when I turned 18 and I of all 16 to get a bike, I we just had to
pass a multiple choice thing at TCDI always remember, the
question is what do you do when you're overtaking a horse, you
know? Do you beep?
Do you slap the horse on his
butt? Do you drive slowly?
You know, it was those kind of questions.
Then you had to show that you could drive between these cones
kind of thing, and that was about it.
I mean, there is now things like I want to say it's called
Project Ride, but they're not mandatory.
Project ride is fine, my daughter went on it the
disadvantage which has been corrected but I don't think it
started yet was it was never on the roads.
It was in TCD car park but I think they've amended that and I
I can't quite understand why it's only just happened.
The kids have been taught on the roads now.
Why? Why just now there's no
explanation to me is why it's taken so long to do that.
When when I was living in Scotland, I saw how they were
training people to ride motorbikes there.
I don't think it's mandatory, but they had this, they had the
instructor, he had a helmet and the helmet's got a two way radio
communication in it with the the the other, the learners, the
students following behind. And I did see that operating
once in Bermuda. I don't know how common it is,
but. I I believe there was a charity
that did that. Right, but none of it is going
to be mandatory of course. So maybe there's the need for
more mandatory yes, driving training.
I think in America in school, don't they teach you how to
drive a car? There's like a driving class or
something I. Honestly don't know but it
should be mandatory yeah to go on the roads.
For like motorbikes and stuff we also have, although we have a
lower population, we now we still have the same amount if
not more vehicles operating on the roads, which is interesting
as well. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
And driving habits all over have got worse, it seems.
The police have said that as well.
Since COVID, they've noticed a decrease in driving habits
getting worse. I wonder why that is.
Do you think people just didn't get a lot of practice when they
were during the pandemic or something?
I don't know. Don't know, pent up frustration.
I don't know, seems to have carried on.
It's really weird. But you know, I was, I was
walking around the hole where I'm staying at the moment and we
talk about motorbike training. There was a bunch of kids, about
10 of them I think, who were on their push bikes being trained
right on the road. You know, it starts that early
now, I think I don't remember Misha Fubler, I think tweeted
once. One of the reasons we have a
problem is that kids don't get on their push bikes in Bermuda.
And I responded straight away. So there's no way I'd ever put
my kids out on a push bike on the roads in Bermuda.
But the point being, they were being trained very early, very
early in life about recognizing. I think you're frozen there,
Jeremy. Oh dear, I think my Co host is
frozen. So I don't know if the entire
thing is. Frozen or just me?
We might have to come back to this discussion, see if he comes
back to me or not. Nope.
The wonders of modern Technology 8 when you're doing it from
Bermuda to the UK. Well, I'm very sorry about that.
Technology. Don't you just love it?
Oh, he's back. Hello, Jonathan, Are you back?
Good. Yeah, I thought you were the one
that were frozen at first, so I was talking to stall until you
reconnected, but it turns out it was me that was frozen.
Sorry listeners, viewers, technology.
You were talking about push bikes and you're right, you
don't see a lot of kids on push bikes anymore.
In my neighborhood is pretty big and there's a lot of speed
bumps, so I do still see kids on push bikes, but it's very
infrequently. A lot of them are on the
electric bikes and they kind of joyride and do the puppy
wheelies along the stretch around by my house.
That's an interesting 1, Jonathan as well.
There's a lot of those electric bikes and I see them, they go
almost as quick or as quick as ordinary bikes.
And I probably need to bring some legislation in for that
fairly soon. Yeah.
Anyway, I mean, I would love to know, we would love to know your
thoughts on road safety. We'd like to hear your horror
stories, actually. I know that sounds terrible but
we've all got a story to tell about roads on
bermudaletusknowemailthenewsnavs@gmail.com or on all the social media
platforms. So leave us a message and give
us your ideas as well on what we can do on this.
You know, 11/12/13 deaths a year is is awful, is absolutely awful
for an island the size of Bermuda.
Jonathan, you wanted to talk very quickly about Admiralty
House, did you? Well, I just thought our, our,
our listeners should be aware that there's a public
consultation going on for redevelopment off the the
buildings there. I haven't been up to Amity House
for some time, but those buildings have always been kind
of ruined as far as I can remember going back to the 80s.
I think they were just kind of shut down in the late 70s and
just left to deteriorate. But yeah, there's public
consultation on. So if anyone is interested, it's
a very popular park and it would be really interesting to see
what those buildings can be used for for community purposes going
forward. It's got an interesting history,
hasn't it? 1816, apparently it was first
established and it is a relic of Bermuda's colonial past, which
is kind of interesting. And it was the official
residence, I believe, for the senior officer of the British
Royal Navy's North America and West Indies Station.
Yep. And very.
Popular for balls, ballroom dancing.
Very popular indeed and a lot of significant stuff down there.
The Dundonald Tunnel, connecting to Clarence Cove and all these
kind of things which are really, really interesting.
And it's a fantastic park, never mind a fascinating building.
And you know, to have it as some sort of Community Center or
something for the community along with that park could be a
major, major addition to that area.
Spanish Point, isn't it? Agree.
Fantastic. I was thinking I need to go over
there on the weekend just to walk around.
I haven't been up there for probably 10 years now, but it's
a fantastic park. I haven't been up there since
the kids were quite little. We used to go to the harbour
down there and walk out on a split and jump in and it was
fantastic. It was, it was a really, really
nice place to go, very sheltered, very safe, really
good fun. So if you could do something on
that it'd be great. Do you know Jonathan going to
put you on the spot here? Do you know where you people can
respond? To oh, you know, I did have it.
I don't have give me a second to find it.
I have it written down somewhere, I want to say it's at
forum.gov dot BM and the public consultation is open until end
of day February 13th. OK, there we go.
Have your say. It's a really, really nice,
important, important part of Bermuda.
I just said despite colonial past, I just want to say that if
you want to learn more about the events that Gina Spence is
organizing, you can e-mail info@gspcharity.com.
It is on March the 6th from 12:00 PM to 2:00 PM on the City
Hall steps. And you're right, Jonathan,
people have been asked to wear orange.
Please attend. And I guess the the other big
news just to prepare for it's not really out yet is we have
budget coming up around February the 20th is the budget debate.
So that's something we'll be keeping an eye on.
And around it around that same time, the joint Select
Committee, the parliamentary committee that was set up to
review the the ransom attack, the cyber attack on a Bermuda a
couple years ago now, they said that they are looking to table
their report on that cyber attack either just before or
just after the Budget debate. So I think we're certainly going
to be looking forward to reading over that report and trying to
give a, a review of it for this. Can I just?
Clarify, Jonathan. Are they tabling it or are they
going to give it to the Speaker of the House?
So Lawrence Scott, who is the chair of the joint Select
Committee, he was saying that they are going to provide it to
the Speaker of the House around that time and I believe he said
it would be laid before before Parliament.
I need to go back and look at the exact wording, but the too
late before Parliament would mean it would be made public at
that point, although of course certain confidential aspects
might not be made public. You, you know this kind of thing
better than me and I just, I wondered if giving it to the
Speaker automatically meant that it would be tabled for the
public in the House of Assembly. I would say it does not mean it
automatically is tabled, but I I seem to recall him saying that
it would be laid before Parliament.
I'm just going to the article now to see if I can find.
No, I think you're right. I'm just intrigued because he
did say, because we interviewed him obviously last year about
this, if you remember. And he did say at the time he
gave us an update on his work and he was going into all the
details of what happened and why it happened, the ransom,
etcetera, etcetera. Now, these are all details that
the government has steadfastly refused to make public.
Yeah. And I can see the rationale for
that until they've done their the investigation itself.
And it is possible I would need to check my Robert's rows of
orders, but it is possible to do a closed session of Parliament,
I think, if they feel that the information to be discussed is
not for public consumption. So I think, you know, and I only
mean that in the case if they reveal information in it that
cyber hackers might be able to exploit going forward.
I mean, the joints of that committee made a point to say
that they've actually been doing this kind of old school using
typewriters and handwritten documents just to avoid hackers
having access to the information.
It would be quite interesting that if it was revealed how much
government did pay, if they paid for a ransomware, I can't
imagine that being made public because it would encourage
others to say, well, we'll ask for that as well.
You gave it to them. Exactly, which is why I do think
some of the report will definitely be made in be in the
public domain, but I expect that certain aspects will be under
like you know, a national security embargo.
It has to be, which is why I wondered the process, whether
the Speaker would say, can't table all this, we're going to
have to redact it or have a closed session of the House or
whatever before it was actually tabled in the House.
Yeah. I mean, my interpretation is
that some form of the report will be made publicly available.
Yeah. But Lawrence Scott told.
Us. I don't know.
But he didn't actually say how much.
I'm really intrigued given the secrecy around it all.
Some necessary, some you might argue not so necessary.
We will see. It'll be an interesting Newsday
that one. We might have to do a On the
Spot podcast. Looking forward to it until we
get half yourself ourselves, definitely.
Do it for the budget. Yeah.
Definitely. That'll be good fun.
We did that last year, didn't we, which is good fun.
OK, well, on that note, Jonathan, I am.
What time is it? It is 20 to 7 UK.
It is time for my supper. All right, well, pleasant
appetite listeners, look forward to seeing you next time.
All I can say is thank goodness for M&S food, pleasant appetite.
Take care. See you.
Bye.