1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:03,800 The News Navigators with me, Jeremy Deacon. 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:08,640 And me, Jonathan Sterling. Jonathan, I don't know about you 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,920 mate, but I'm having problems keeping up with the news. 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,680 Not only is it doom and gloom, it really has, hasn't it a long, 5 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,440 short year. I mean, I wanted to post the 6 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:21,080 other day. I saw a list of headlines on the 7 00:00:21,080 --> 00:00:23,400 Guardian, which was so depressing. 8 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:25,880 It was Trump, it was war, it was famine. 9 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,880 But then every time something happens, Trump does something 10 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:34,680 else and Trump Trump's it all, you know? 11 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,480 And it's so difficult to keep pace with him. 12 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:41,000 I. Have to be honest, I'm I'm 13 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,960 exhausted by it all. This is very tiring. 14 00:00:44,480 --> 00:00:48,160 It's very tiring and it, you know, it sounds a bit flimsy in 15 00:00:48,160 --> 00:00:50,880 a way, but it's kind of emotionally quite stressful. 16 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,160 You know, it's something that's bad all the time, something that 17 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:59,000 doesn't make sense all the time, only sense to people like you 18 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:00,920 and me. If you're on the MAGA, right, it 19 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,800 probably makes perfect sense, but I find it difficult to take 20 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,080 in. I find it very concerning, you 21 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:09,200 know, what's happening with Greenland and Europe. 22 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,960 I find it very concerning about my kids future. 23 00:01:12,960 --> 00:01:17,800 I've got two kids who are turning 23 and 20 this year, and 24 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:19,480 I wonder what's going to be like for them. 25 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:24,320 I worry about imperialism. I worry about Trump's attitude, 26 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:29,280 giving power to Putin and China, you know, because that's what 27 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:31,040 it's about. This is about imperialism. 28 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:35,200 The dates, 1984 keep coming back to me. 29 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:38,320 We talked about this last time, but it keeps coming back to me. 30 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:40,280 You know, I'm going to have to go and reread it. 31 00:01:41,320 --> 00:01:42,800 And it's not a nice place at the moment. 32 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,680 The world. No, it's, it's very difficult. 33 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,520 I mean, I'm, I'm always optimistic in the long term, but 34 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:52,400 I have to admit I'm quite pessimistic in the short term at 35 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,000 the moment. It does seem, I mean, of course 36 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,960 the world is always changing, but it does seem like the, the 37 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:02,560 kind of order that we grew up in the post World War 2 order is 38 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,240 it's having a, a qualitative change. 39 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,720 Well, international law seems to have gone out the window. 40 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:15,400 NATO, the UN seems to be heading the same way depending on what 41 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,200 happens with Greenland, but it does seem to be going the same 42 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:23,640 way, which is quite, you know, disconcerting because for all 43 00:02:23,640 --> 00:02:28,080 its faults, those institutions that have kept Europe largely at 44 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:32,040 peace, well, at peace since 1945, apart from what's happened 45 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:34,960 in Ukraine. And partly you could argue that 46 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:39,080 NATO and UN weren't strong enough, but it has lot mostly 47 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,000 kept Europe at peace. Yeah, I mean, I'm certainly 48 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,200 critical of the United Nations in terms of the Security Council 49 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,320 and the veto process. But I also recognize the United 50 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,160 Nations has done a lot of good things for the world and it's 51 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:55,800 the best option we have. International law is the best 52 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,160 option we have. Otherwise it's just, you know, 53 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,240 barbarism. It's the rule of might, might, 54 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,560 makes right. And that's, I mean, I've always 55 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,840 argued that that's what America's mostly done, but 56 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,800 they've usually put a fig leaf on and pretended that they're 57 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:15,200 doing things for democracy or for human rights or for the 58 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,200 rules based order. I mean, I've been critical of 59 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:19,800 that. But now they've taken off the 60 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:21,280 fig leaf. The mask is gone. 61 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:23,760 It's it's no longer the quiet American, it's the ugly 62 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,120 American. And again, I have no qualms with 63 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,040 the American people. They are different from the 64 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,280 American government. But the fact that a lot of the 65 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,000 American people did elect this government and are still 66 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:39,200 supporting it is problematic. I agree. 67 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:40,920 I agree. And I feel, you know, I feel I 68 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,840 feel deeply for those Americans who don't support Trump. 69 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:45,520 They must be feeling awful right now. 70 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:50,000 Anyway, I think that little intro, I think what what led us 71 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:54,120 to talk about that is a recent article that quoted A gentleman 72 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:58,040 called Klaus Dodds, who's an interim faculty Dean at 73 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:01,920 Middlesex University. And he had posed the idea in the 74 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,600 Royal Gazette and in a previous article he wrote that if you can 75 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:08,440 go for Greenland, why not Bermuda? 76 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,280 He a couple of quotes after Greenland. 77 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,480 Could Bermuda be next? That's the question. 78 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:18,320 The Role Gazette reported that was raised by Auk analyst in a 79 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,320 striking new article. They said it might sound like 80 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,400 Satya satire, but what if it's not Doctor Dodds? 81 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,640 He was quoted as saying, I wasn't being flippant. 82 00:04:26,840 --> 00:04:30,160 Is it so preposterous to think that someone in that 83 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,200 administration might say, Mr. President, there's an island 84 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,160 called Bermuda located in the Atlantic of the US. 85 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,840 We don't like what the Russians and the Chinese are doing. 86 00:04:38,840 --> 00:04:41,520 This is me quoting. I'm not quoting him. 87 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:43,840 Now, Bermuda could make great base. 88 00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:45,640 We're worried about the security of Greenland. 89 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:47,640 We're worried about the security of the East Coast. 90 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,600 How about Bermuda? And it's like, you know, we 91 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:52,280 would we would touch on this a little bit. 92 00:04:53,280 --> 00:04:57,520 This is this is part, this was made possible, this train of 93 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:02,560 thought because this is Trump, Trump's move to get a kind of a 94 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,240 Western hemispheric dominance. That's what we're seeing in 95 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,760 Venezuela. That's what we're seeing in in 96 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,920 Greenland. MAGA is not isolationist as we 97 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:16,160 thought he once was. It is imperialistic colonial 98 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,280 style empire making. Could Bermuda be next? 99 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:21,680 You've talked about this for a while, Jonathan, haven't you? 100 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,800 I have, yeah. Especially after the the 101 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:29,280 national security strategy came out was that November last year 102 00:05:29,280 --> 00:05:32,440 and then after their attack on Venezuela, I did, I did raise 103 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:34,960 these exact issues. I was like, if they can do this 104 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:38,600 to Maduro, they could do it to me and Motley and Barbados. 105 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,360 They could do it to to Bermuda. They could take out bird if they 106 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:43,920 wanted. I mean, what's the UK going to 107 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:45,760 do, you know? Is it? 108 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:47,240 It? Might as well wait till October. 109 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:54,480 Yeah, yeah. But I mean, look, in All in all 110 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,120 seriousness, Jonathan, is it a serious threat? 111 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:02,320 I would say it's still unlikely, but it's no longer as far 112 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:06,280 fetched or as unlikely as it was even a month ago. 113 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:08,960 This, this is the problem, isn't it? 114 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:11,920 This is the problem, his unpredictability. 115 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,440 Yeah. And also, I mean, we've seen 116 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,640 we've seen Europe use the politics of appeasement for the 117 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:20,840 last year. They've kind of rolled over and 118 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,600 given in to Trump. And every time you do that with 119 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,440 a bully, it just encourages the bully to do more. 120 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:28,880 There hasn't really been anyone that has stood up. 121 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,520 I mean, the only people that did stand up really was Iran and 122 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:34,680 Venezuela. And we saw what happened to 123 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,920 them. I I've got a certain sympathy 124 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:42,320 with with Europe because they had to appease because they 125 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:46,960 needed American might to fight Putin in Ukraine. 126 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,920 What I'm seeing now is that seems to have been put aside and 127 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,320 there are red lines being drawn. There are some very strong words 128 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:58,080 I think I read from the Belgian Prime Minister today that he had 129 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:02,080 said this is a red line as opposed in the talking about 130 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,200 Greenland. So they are showing a pair of 131 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,440 balls at last and and the appeasement seems to be getting 132 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,200 a little bit out of the window. Well, they're talking to talk, 133 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,920 but I'm not convinced yet that they're going to walk the walk. 134 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:17,120 Often I see the Europeans react and then they kind of try to 135 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,760 stall for time and then they eventually kind of negotiate a 136 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:26,120 not as bad situation as initial. Yeah, it was. 137 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:28,480 I read it. I can't remember which American 138 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,440 official it was, They said, he said it was dripping sarcasm. 139 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,120 Oh, they'll probably form that dreaded European working group. 140 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,640 Think that was Stephen Besent, who is? 141 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,000 A yes, it was actually a treasury sex. 142 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:41,080 Yeah, you're right. Thank you. 143 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,760 Which which, yeah, it was dripping with sarcasm that but 144 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,640 it come back to Bermuda. I mean, is there a reason to, to 145 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,960 want to try and take, if you like, never mind buy Bermuda. 146 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,200 I mean, geopolitically it's in a good place, isn't it? 147 00:07:56,240 --> 00:08:01,240 Like I said, if there's problems with Russia or China getting 148 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:04,000 close to the US East Coast, this is a perfect place for it. 149 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,000 You know, you know, from your history of World War Two, it was 150 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,640 used to that, to that effect then, wasn't it? 151 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:15,280 I, I can kind of see that. But other than that, there's no 152 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,080 precious metals, there's no oil, no gas. 153 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:24,080 Well, there is a lot of wear metals down on the sea floor 154 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:26,160 we're. Led to believe there's been no 155 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:27,400 exploration yet though, has there? 156 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:30,560 No. And I, I mean, I personally am 157 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:36,840 opposed to to deep sea mining. I think it's an ecologically not 158 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:40,559 a great idea, but I do know that the Americans are exploring 159 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:42,320 those not in Bermuda but elsewhere. 160 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:46,080 So that could be an appeal. I think their appeal for Bermuda 161 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,680 would be more well, partly, I think Trump would just like to 162 00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:55,240 have the golf courses. Yeah, there is that. 163 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,160 From a military strategic point of view, we are still a 164 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:03,760 strategic asset, especially if the US and Europe is going into 165 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:09,200 kind of a Cold War system. We are kind of the guard the the 166 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,000 doormat to the US East Coast. I mean that's why we were the 167 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:17,800 Gibraltar of the West. Of course, that increases our 168 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,800 strategic value for the for especially the UK. 169 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:24,560 If there is a formal break, I would imagine the UK would want 170 00:09:24,560 --> 00:09:26,880 to rebuild some of their fortifications here. 171 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,600 But of course then America would see that as a threat and they 172 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:32,560 might want to take us out. I mean, we're all talking 173 00:09:32,560 --> 00:09:36,240 hypotheticals here, but. Hypotheticals are great to talk 174 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,920 about. Yeah, in in many ways we are 175 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:42,200 already an American colony. We are British colony by name. 176 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:46,360 But culturally and everything, I think we are very much under the 177 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:50,640 American influence. What 80 to 90% of our food are 178 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,120 on imports come from from the US. 179 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,080 They could just put a blockade on us and we'd have to 180 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:00,880 capitulate in two weeks. I get that we're under, under 181 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:02,920 that influence, yeah. Culturally we're not, I don't 182 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,280 think. Yeah, I mean economic. 183 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,880 Caribbean British influence, but we are still have a lot of 184 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,320 American influence here. No, absolutely. 185 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:13,480 Yeah. I wonder, you know, it kind of. 186 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:16,880 I want to help the view to how people in the government will 187 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:22,480 react if the US tried to exert more control. 188 00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:26,640 Do you think if that happened, and obviously as you said, this 189 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,800 is purely hypothetical, that could actually drive Bermuda to 190 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,400 independence? Well, I mean, as you know, I. 191 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,640 They might, they might, they might just say look we don't 192 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:38,600 want the UK, we don't want the States give us independence. 193 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,240 Rather like Greenland is exerting its self governing 194 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,560 authority. I mean, I'm, I'm a strong 195 00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:47,040 supporter for independence. I believe in an independent 196 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:49,800 Bermuda. I also believe in an independent 197 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:51,800 Caribbean. And I would like to be an 198 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,280 independent Bermuda within an independent Caribbean. 199 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:59,360 But we're also seeing the Caribbean adopting a strategy of 200 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:01,880 submission and capitulating to the US. 201 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:07,040 Ever since the January 3rd attack on Venezuela, you've seen 202 00:11:07,560 --> 00:11:12,200 Saint Kitts, Antigua and I think Dominica have all agreed to 203 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,240 house concentration camps for the Americans. 204 00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:19,440 You know, the Americans are outsourcing their immigration 205 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,840 immigrants to these countries. They're third party immigrants, 206 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,920 so they're not like Saint Kitts citizens being deported back to 207 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,040 Saint Kitts. They're people that America 208 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:32,520 can't deport for whatever reason to their home country. 209 00:11:32,680 --> 00:11:35,400 They're going to be set up in a concentration camp in these 210 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,840 countries, just like the UK was trying to do with Rwanda a 211 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:42,000 couple years back. So we're seeing the Caribbean 212 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:46,000 are just capitulating. So yes, I still believe in an 213 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:51,120 independent Bermuda joining a strong CARICOM at the moment. 214 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,280 I can certainly see why people would prefer us to be under the 215 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:58,520 UK because the UK is more likely to be able to defend us, 216 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:02,000 although I would I see that with a lot of suspicion. 217 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:08,000 We saw just Prime Minister Starmer just the other day gave 218 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,320 a speech and saying why he can't break with the US because they 219 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,520 control our nuclear weapons, which is our main deterrent. 220 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,880 I mean, how is it a deterrent to maintain your sovereignty if you 221 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,680 have to submit to another country to use it in the first 222 00:12:20,680 --> 00:12:23,280 place? Well, different times, different 223 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:24,920 people. I mean it's. 224 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:28,200 Just choosing who who you want to be your master, Moscow or 225 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,080 DCI. Think that might change. 226 00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:34,040 I think that might change a lot. I mean, it would be interesting, 227 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:38,240 wasn't it? I mean, the Trump was having a 228 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:43,400 real go at Keir Starmer today about the Diego Garcia deal in 229 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:45,960 the Mauritius saying it's the worst deal ever. 230 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,960 You know, that's why we have to go to Greenland because you do 231 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:51,440 this kind of deal. What are you going to do with 232 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,360 Greenland? That's why we have to do it. 233 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:59,240 Is there AI mean if he really wants to turn the screw on Keir 234 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:03,160 Starmer in the UK, he really could trump this is point his 235 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,760 finger at the colonies, couldn't he at the dependent territories? 236 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:10,280 It would leave the UK in quite a bind because Bermuda, as you 237 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:12,920 know, he's not a country. You can't call Bermuda a 238 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,000 country. He's part of the UK. 239 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,480 How say. We're country, but we're not an 240 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:19,640 independent nation. A nation. 241 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:20,920 You're right. I do beg your pardon. 242 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:22,720 You're a. Country like Scotland and Wales 243 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,280 are countries, but they're within the United Kingdom. 244 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:27,160 You're absolutely. Right, that's just my Scottish 245 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,800 nationalism kicking it. No, you're quite right. 246 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:32,720 Thanks for correcting me. But, you know, if he targeted, 247 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,240 if he targeted countries like Bermuda, which is not a nation, 248 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,640 it is part of the UK, that would actually put Keir Starmer in 249 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:42,440 quite a bind, wouldn't it? Because it would be de facto an 250 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:46,240 attack on, not a literal, you know, not a literal attack, but 251 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,760 an attack on the UK. Yeah, it would be like the 252 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:52,320 Falklands. Argentina was a little bit 253 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,120 smaller than the United States in terms of military power. 254 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,960 Yeah, yeah, it would be. That would be quite interesting, 255 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,560 a battle for Bermuda. I mean, I, I don't think our 256 00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:04,360 regimen won't be able to defend us. 257 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:06,880 All we could do was try to play for time and then go to like 258 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,200 again, this is hypotheticals. The regimen would play for time 259 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,360 and then we would go into like a guerrilla war type thing, but 260 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:14,960 mostly. We I don't think your last mate 261 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,280 mate last long. We we blow up the Causeway and 262 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:18,600 settling St. Davis. 263 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,640 And we would hope that the British would be able to get 264 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:23,960 their troops here. But we're so close to America. 265 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,720 I mean, America's Got such a massive military. 266 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,880 Only hope would be that other countries come to our aid and 267 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,720 American can't fight everyone everywhere at the same time. 268 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,600 I mean, they're they're on the verge of and this might sound 269 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,720 hyperbolic, but they are almost on the verge of civil war in the 270 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,520 United States. We see in Minnesota, the 271 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:46,160 National Guard is being embodied by the Minnesota government. 272 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:51,440 We see that the Americans have ordered battalions from Alaska 273 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:56,400 to fly to Minnesota. We're seeing a direct clash 274 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,640 going on there, which could be the spark of the civil war. 275 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:01,040 I'm not saying it's going to happen. 276 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:03,200 I know people are going to say, oh, Jonathan's speaking 277 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,600 hyperbole, hyperbole, but it's there. 278 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,680 It's all happening right now. I think there's a couple of 279 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,440 interesting points that actually that I read up a story about a 280 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,080 poll couple of months ago in America where there was 281 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:20,560 increasing fear of the Civil War, still relatively low 282 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,960 numbers, but it was increasing in numbers about the Civil War. 283 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:29,120 I don't know. I think this is, I think we're 284 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:30,960 going too far with this, frankly. 285 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:35,040 I don't see that ever happening. I think if Trump decided that he 286 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:40,080 wanted to take over, move it, it would be more economic pressure. 287 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,320 Anything else. You could see how he might 288 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,120 penalize countries here. You could see how he could 289 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,560 possibly have tariffs. I don't know how they work 290 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:55,000 exactly, but a lot of our GDP for our balance of payments is 291 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:57,920 totally reliant really on international business. 292 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,440 You start screening that around and we're in a lot of trouble. 293 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,120 Yeah. I mean, if he if America takes 294 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:05,360 over Bermuda, that pretty much undermines international 295 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,720 business because they would fall under U.S. tax codes, right? 296 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,400 I mean, maybe they'd do something like Delaware. 297 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:15,160 Maybe I don't know. That gets really complicated 298 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:19,040 because I know US has pulled out of the corporate income tax. 299 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,640 It doesn't do that. But like I say, places like 300 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:25,160 Delaware that that corporate tax rate, but I'm just saying if you 301 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,600 wanted to squeeze it, it wouldn't have to be militarily. 302 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,520 There are a lot of economic ways to do it. 303 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:34,960 And you know, squeezing the businesses here that would put a 304 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,880 lot of pressure on the worldwide system because of the 305 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,000 reinsurance. It would be very interesting. 306 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,080 Actually. A lot of reinsurance is done in 307 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,200 America. We pay for the wildfires and 308 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,520 stuff like that. How that would play out, it is 309 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,360 very hypothetical, but what I think is really interesting. 310 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,520 We are talking about this. We would never have talked about 311 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,440 this two years ago. Yeah, 10 years ago. 312 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,880 Absolutely not. This, this is something now that 313 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:03,680 has become there's a sense of realness that's nothing. 314 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,040 That's a word about it. Because he's what he's done to 315 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:10,119 Maduro, because he, what he wants to do to Greenland, his 316 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:15,640 imperialistic outlook, you know, his mega base, which like I 317 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:17,920 said, we thought as isolationist. 318 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,040 It is not. It is imperialistic to feed the 319 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,560 empire like the Brits did. And all these things suddenly 320 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,000 which were unthinkable are now very thinkable. 321 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,720 Yeah. I mean, I would, again, I would 322 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,400 agree that I think it's unlikely that the Americans are going to 323 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,000 take over Bermuda, but it's not impossible now. 324 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:40,080 But I do think that we should. Behind closed doors, our civil 325 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,920 servants should be trying to figure out a way to kind of 326 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:47,360 stall for time and diversify our economy so that we're less 327 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:51,520 vulnerable to American pressure. Well, hopefully that happened 328 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:56,320 when the tariffs were announced last year, we had that, we had 329 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:58,920 that cost of living report. I hope that was one of the 330 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,600 things that they looked at to diversify where we get our 331 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:04,080 imports from. There were lots of talks at a 332 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,520 time when they were about Canada and the Caribbean. 333 00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:11,360 Whether that's part of the CARICOM debate, I don't know. 334 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,720 How far that those talks or those that how far that has 335 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:16,320 gone, I don't know. But we should do. 336 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,440 We should do absolutely. Because the other thing about 337 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,720 here is, is JD Vance better than Trump or worse than Trump? 338 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:27,640 He's a front runner to takeover. He is a MAGA acolyte. 339 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:32,200 You know, his speech in the in Europe telling Europeans off for 340 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,040 so-called stopping freedom of speech when we were actually 341 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:40,360 talking about far right horrible people is he's actually worse. 342 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:42,800 Well, I mean, he's a bit of an opportunist. 343 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,600 I mean, you know, before he became Trump's running mate, he 344 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:48,720 was very anti Trump. He called Trump, he was 345 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:53,120 America's Hitler, but then he changed his clothes to to his 346 00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:55,320 benefit, which is why I say he's an opportunist. 347 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:59,280 He saw the opportunity and he completely did an about face. 348 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,760 Will he do another about face once Trump is gone? 349 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,760 I doubt it. I think the MAGA cult is too 350 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,360 strong. He would continue it. 351 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:17,040 It's something that we can't rely on, that he will turn and 352 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:18,960 that's where he goes. Back to your point, I hope we're 353 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,840 making plans because three years left for Trump could be another 354 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,040 4 to 8 years of JD Vance. We don't know. 355 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,240 And we have to prepare for that. We absolutely have to. 356 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,600 It's, it's a terrifying thought. You know, I'm sitting here doing 357 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:35,920 as, you know, recording this in the UK and my daughter's 358 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,840 visiting me. She turns 23 next month. 359 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:41,360 And I'm really thinking, you know, what does the future hold 360 00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:44,200 for her the next 6-8 years? Conscription. 361 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:49,000 I'm just kidding. She'll make a great soldier. 362 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,600 I mean, I will say you didn't mention an issue there about the 363 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:57,520 the European far right. And I do think that this current 364 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,480 move by Trump with Greenland, I think it is in the large way is 365 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,720 going to backfire in terms of his allies in Europe. 366 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:09,800 Because I mean, reform in the UK for as she's very close to 367 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:14,840 Trump, how, how this going to impact their, their upcoming 368 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,040 local elections and the Scottish election and the Welsh election. 369 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,800 I can't imagine it would hurt reforms outcome and going 370 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,080 forward, what does that mean for reforming the general election 371 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,840 in a couple years time? You know, I'm not convinced 372 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,560 because being in the UK I'm listening to the radio a lot, 373 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:33,760 but I'm listening to the commentary, I'm listening to the 374 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,080 news. I think even now Reform is 375 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:42,520 polling around 30%, which is around 15% higher than the next 376 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:46,040 party and I think there's local elections coming in May. 377 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,680 I think Reform will do extremely well and probably decimate 378 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:55,360 Labour and the Tories and I'm not sure this is playing out in 379 00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:58,240 terms of the British electorate. This being Greenland, I don't 380 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,240 think he's playing. Out there, I mean, of course, I 381 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:05,480 listen more to the Scottish news ecosystem there and I will say 382 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:10,840 reform was in the running to be second place in the upcoming 383 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,480 general election in Scotland in May, which is the same time as 384 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:18,160 the local elections in England. From what I'm reading, in the 385 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:22,840 Scottish kind of news system, this whole Greenland thing is 386 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,360 actually hurting reform in Scotland. 387 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:29,720 Now, of course, in the English population, it's a different 388 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:33,200 political system, so maybe it won't have that same impact. 389 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:38,320 But now Labour is now coming up as the second place and 390 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,240 Scotland, which is amazing seeing how bad of a campaign 391 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:43,960 they've had so far. Right. 392 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,040 Is this all about independence, do you think? 393 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,160 Deep city Scottish angst over independence. 394 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,560 Well, it certainly increased the the demand for it because 395 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:56,040 they're seeing that the UK is not defending them. 396 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,200 It's showing that the Trident nuclear weapon, which is 397 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,240 unpopular in Scotland anyway, is not even under the, you know, 398 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,520 British control, which is what Scotland, Scottish voters have 399 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,760 been saying all the time anyway. Why are you poisoning our waters 400 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,240 with radiation which we can't even use? 401 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,520 We digress from Bermuda. Somewhere, yeah, sorry. 402 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:20,360 Well, I think it's still interesting whether our 403 00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:22,680 listeners have fallen asleep by now. 404 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:27,040 I mean, I do think that it just shows and this just kind of what 405 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,600 I'll just end on is that the world is changing. 406 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,760 It's a new world order. It's very uncomfortable because 407 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:38,000 we are all of us grew up used to the current order and now it's 408 00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:40,000 radically changing before our eyes. 409 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,480 There's a quote by Lennon that says that there are decades 410 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,000 where nothing happens and then weeks where decades happen. 411 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,280 Yes, I am quoting quoting Vladimir Lennon. 412 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,200 Good for you. There's a quote I read today and 413 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,080 I can't remember who it's from and I hope I can get it right. 414 00:22:55,520 --> 00:23:01,040 They say something like if the older child dies or something 415 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,280 like that and the younger child isn't born. 416 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,000 It means that's a quote from Antonio Gramsci. 417 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,480 We're just quoting Marxism all day today it was the old world 418 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,880 is dying and the new world is struggling to be born, and we 419 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,200 are now in the time of monsters. And I think that actually sums 420 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,360 up our time perfectly, because I think there will be a new world 421 00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:20,800 born. It's just taking his time to 422 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,920 happen. I think the old world is dying. 423 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,440 The old order is dying. Yeah, it was the Belgian Prime 424 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,040 Minister who quoted the Gramsci today and he said it's up to 425 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,160 it's up to Trump to decide if he wants to be a monster. 426 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,280 Yes, and I must admit, you know, good up for the Belgian Prime 427 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,120 Minister. You know, there's been some 428 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,320 decent hard rhetoric from the Europeans, but I think he was 429 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,560 the the best one I've read so far. 430 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,280 And you know, if there is a trade war, that is going to 431 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:49,920 impact Bermuda's economy as well of. 432 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:51,360 Course he will. Yeah. 433 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,640 I mean, we're, we're like a a sail. 434 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,280 We're we're a ship with sails in the in the middle of a storm. 435 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,840 There's nothing you can do about it, you know, That's why, you 436 00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:02,960 know, we rewind a lot. People will know how cynical I 437 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,120 am about the cost of living Commission. 438 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,720 It's just so limited what you can actually do because as you 439 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,320 said repeatedly, we are price takers, not makers. 440 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,040 Yep. And that comes down to you 441 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,280 mentioned, you mentioned CARICOM earlier. 442 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:21,400 What does that mean for us? How, how should Bermuda react to 443 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,760 this new world? What does it mean? 444 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,000 But this is your, your, your segue haven't hasn't quite 445 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:29,960 worked this time. Jonathan, are you talking about 446 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,040 Michael Faye's op-ed? I was, I was alluding to that 447 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,680 good. I just had to help the listener 448 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,360 a little bit there. I think wasn't wasn't your best 449 00:24:40,360 --> 00:24:41,920 segue ever. You're losing your touch. 450 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,680 Yeah, sorry, I'm just tired from this whole unprecedented times. 451 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,080 I'm tired. At the same time I can't stop 452 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:50,640 reading the news. It's so frustrating. 453 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:55,280 Anyway, so, yeah, so Mike Fay, the who's a friend of mine, 454 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,680 let's get it out there, you know, conflict of interest and 455 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,640 all that. I I'm in the UK so I'm I can 456 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:04,000 escape his rough. And he was the original Co host 457 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,240 of this podcast. I am I am Faye's replacement. 458 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,920 I have a very good one too, I might add, Mr. Starling. 459 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:12,160 Thank you. Thank. 460 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,840 You a very good one, yeah. He can't bump me. 461 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,640 Can't bump into me in the street and, and shout at me. 462 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,160 But basically he, he seemed to suggest that because there's, 463 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:27,920 because Trump has downgraded the immigrant visa processing from 464 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:34,880 75 countries, I think including all but four or five of CARICOM 465 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,760 members. He's suggesting, therefore, that 466 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:42,480 it would be bad to join CARICOM because we might basically be 467 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:50,400 subsumed into that situation. I really disagree with him, if 468 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,000 I've summed up that article correctly. 469 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:56,200 Jonathan, hopefully I have. Yeah, I mean, we are already 470 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,120 members of CARICOM. We're associate members becoming 471 00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:00,560 full members. I don't think it's going to 472 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,480 change anything on our immigrant status. 473 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,760 And and the The thing is for immigrant visas, not for tourist 474 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,400 visas. You did say I'm just 475 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,400 highlighting that. I I don't really. 476 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,880 To me it's just caremongering. I think so. 477 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,240 This is a global policy that's being carried out by the Trump 478 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,440 administration. It's not local. 479 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:26,200 It's not particularly targeted. I mean, yes, he did. 480 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:32,160 He did excuse those countries in the Caribbean that supported his 481 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,040 actions, particularly in Venezuela. 482 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:40,280 But I don't think we should be making our policies on the basis 483 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:46,160 of a man. Also, what if we can't make our 484 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,960 policies on what if? Otherwise that's paralysis. 485 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,240 Well, it's also the politics of appeasement. 486 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,680 If you're saying we can't make this decision as a nation 487 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,320 because it might upset this other country that will then 488 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:00,960 punish us, that will collective punishment. 489 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,400 That's just appeasement and encouraging bullying in my 490 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,800 opinion. I totally agree, but personally 491 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,240 one of my one of my main points here is I do not think that 492 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:15,760 Trump is targeting CARICOM, its ideology or its. 493 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,560 Governance I I don't think he would make a distinguish. 494 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,440 He would distinguish between Bermuda and the Caribbean 495 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,280 anyway. Anyway, I mean we're. 496 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,400 All I won't say it because this is on air. 497 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,160 We're all S hole countries to him in a way. 498 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,120 No, let's say it. We're all bunch of shit old 499 00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:37,640 countries. Let's just say it. 500 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:44,440 Yeah, I know. The other thing is, excuse me, I 501 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:50,280 don't think that having CARICOM membership equates to diplomatic 502 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:56,160 alignment or shared immigration outcomes or policies. 503 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:58,160 Yeah. I mean, the shared immigration 504 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:02,520 is an option that Bermuda could then pursue, but it's not 505 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,120 mandatory on becoming a full member of CARICOM. 506 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:07,800 Does that make sense? There's a different kind of 507 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:09,320 treaty. Yeah, it does. 508 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,920 And I think also that the fact that Bermuda has not been 509 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:19,360 included in this latest round of immigration denials shows that 510 00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:21,080 it treats Bermuda differently anyway. 511 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,200 Well, I don't think any of the UK colonies were included in all 512 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,160 independent countries. Exactly, which is another point. 513 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,440 It couldn't really do it because that's a direct attack on the 514 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,480 UK. Going back to what we said 515 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:38,840 previously, we're not a nation, nor is BVI, nor is Cayman, you 516 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,680 know, So I, I think, and I, I posted this comment as well, I 517 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,200 think Mike's got it wrong here. I, I, I really think he's got it 518 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,160 wrong. And I don't quite know, I don't 519 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,600 quite know what made him say it. Now, as we were talking off air 520 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,520 earlier on saying this is politicking. 521 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:57,880 Would the PLP have done the same? 522 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,280 Quite possibly. But I I I think this is way, way 523 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,840 off the mark. The membership of CARICOM makes 524 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:09,040 any difference to this one. We know the Oba is historically 525 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,720 not in favor of CARICOM. We saw when they were in power 526 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,360 that they kind of down downgraded relationships with 527 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,120 CARICOM. They didn't attend a lot, a lot 528 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,320 of the CARICOM meetings. We know that they've come out 529 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,080 critical of CARICOM. To me, this is just 530 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:29,240 scaremongering to add to their argument against CARICOM, you 531 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,320 know? I'm inclined to agree. 532 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:33,960 I'm inclined to agree. Having said that, on CARICOM, it 533 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:39,640 is about time that we had the letter from them outlining the 534 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,440 details of our proposed membership. 535 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,040 It is about time and it is about time the government got on with 536 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:48,720 his consultation a little bit more. 537 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,240 Yeah. I mean, as I said, I'm very pro 538 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,360 CARICOM. I'm critical of Caricom's stance 539 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:55,760 right now in response to America. 540 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,720 But I still think we would be stronger as a regional bloc 541 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:03,080 together. But I am surprised that the the 542 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,320 government has not really begun the consultation process. 543 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:08,880 Yeah. You know. 544 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,040 I'm very surprised and it they've had plenty of time. 545 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:14,720 Yeah. I mean, my guess is it just 546 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,840 hasn't been a priority. I don't know. 547 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,600 Or maybe it's been a priority and they're working on it and 548 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,680 they just haven't released it. But I do hope that they do start 549 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,760 that consultation because you can't say we're going to join 550 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,240 CARICOM without explaining the pros and cons and getting the 551 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,200 people with you. I agree on that. 552 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,040 I don't think there's a need for a referendum. 553 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,360 Mike Faye did did, did send me a very, very long e-mail today 554 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,560 which I sent on to you explaining the OB as response. 555 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,680 And we haven't got time today to do that, but we will do. 556 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,640 He explains why he believes that we were wrong and why there 557 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,000 needs to be a referendum. So we we will pick that up in 558 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,280 another episode to go into that in more detail. 559 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,200 In the meantime, let's enjoy being in Bermuda, man. 560 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:03,200 Let's enjoy being a colony before we become some tiny 561 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:09,560 county run by a mayor. AUS mayor with a with an 562 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,480 aircraft carrier fleet parked off the North Shore. 563 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:18,000 Airstrip One. Where would Trump stay? 564 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:19,840 Would he build a Trump Tower, do you think? 565 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:22,960 Well I'm pretty sure the Princess would probably be 566 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,840 renamed like Ivanka Princess or something. 567 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,400 Mid ocean will probably become Trump mansion or something I 568 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,480 don't know. Yeah, yeah, there'd be a, 569 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,760 there'd be a Trump Tower at Mid Ocean, wouldn't know through the 570 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,000 golf course. Government House is vacant at 571 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:38,720 the moment. So this is true. 572 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:40,400 We did. We'd have a lot of gold. 573 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,360 Yeah. On the island, yeah, absolutely. 574 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:49,000 I can't wait. On that note, I hope you found 575 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:53,320 this interesting. I, I have because the world is 576 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,120 changing before our eyes. It's so difficult to keep up 577 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,000 with, as we mentioned at the beginning of this. 578 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:04,120 And as usual, if you agree with us, if you disagree, even better 579 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:08,760 let us know. e-mail the news navs@gmail.com. 580 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:14,840 We will be doing another podcast shortly because there's just so 581 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:20,680 much to talk about. And until then, from me. 582 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,440 Goodbye, Jonathan. Yeah, goodbye from me as well. 583 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:24,720 Thanks. Take care. 584 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:25,560 Bye then.