1 00:00:09,500 --> 00:00:12,500 We a tree speech strive to bring you insightful stories about 2 00:00:12,500 --> 00:00:14,500 trees and those who engage with them. 3 00:00:14,900 --> 00:00:18,200 As we continue growing we ask for your support. 4 00:00:18,300 --> 00:00:21,600 We now have a patreon and every dollar helps us continue to 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:25,000 produce this podcast. Find the link in our show notes 6 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:29,200 or a tree speech.com, every contribution supports our 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:31,200 production. And we'll be giving gifts of 8 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:35,600 gratitude, including an invitation to Treehouse our new 9 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,700 virtual community for patrons of all levels. 10 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:42,800 Please also consider passing the word to tree-loving, folks, and 11 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,100 rate, and review us on Apple podcasts. 12 00:00:45,300 --> 00:01:06,800 Every kind word helps. I'm feeling unsettled and 13 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,100 uncertain. My emotions are strained by the 14 00:01:10,100 --> 00:01:14,000 Discord, and separation in our communities and world. 15 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:18,800 At a time when it seems crucial to be able to work together to 16 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,900 help solve the challenges of our present life. 17 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,200 Never before have. We been so interconnected 18 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,100 through technology yet seemingly? 19 00:01:30,100 --> 00:01:33,900 So distant from one. Another the precious 20 00:01:33,900 --> 00:01:38,900 interconnectedness of all life can so easily be lost amid. 21 00:01:38,900 --> 00:01:42,700 The hustle of The Daily Grind and the weight of continuous 22 00:01:42,700 --> 00:01:47,000 tragic events. Intuitively. 23 00:01:47,300 --> 00:01:52,100 I look to the wisdom within trees for answers trees as a key 24 00:01:52,100 --> 00:01:57,100 to the ailments of our world. Probably sounds nonsensical or 25 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:01,900 hopefully optimistic. But what if there was a guidance 26 00:02:01,900 --> 00:02:05,900 system of sorts that use the themes of Nature and the unity 27 00:02:05,900 --> 00:02:09,900 of all things to create Equitable peaceful and just 28 00:02:09,900 --> 00:02:16,400 ecosystems. I'm Robinson. 29 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:19,600 And this is tree speech. A podcast where we practice 30 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:21,600 hearing the forest through the trees. 31 00:02:22,100 --> 00:02:26,300 This week's episode was written and recorded in Massachusetts on 32 00:02:26,300 --> 00:02:29,900 the native lands of the wabanaki Confederacy, Penacook 33 00:02:30,100 --> 00:02:33,700 massachusett and Pawtucket people in New York on the lands 34 00:02:33,700 --> 00:02:37,200 of the Lenape tribes as well as the lands of Edinburgh. 35 00:02:38,100 --> 00:02:41,300 Tree speech is co-written and produced by Jonathan's out, Nur 36 00:02:41,300 --> 00:02:44,600 and Delight theater guilt this season. 37 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,800 We have been examining in ways that people commune with and 38 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:52,700 find answers from trees in our quest, to uncover solutions, to 39 00:02:52,700 --> 00:02:56,800 the problems that we Face both personally and as a collective 40 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:01,500 whole, today's guest John Philip Newell is an internationally 41 00:03:01,500 --> 00:03:05,300 acclaimed Celtic speaker, teacher and spiritually minded 42 00:03:05,300 --> 00:03:09,200 author of several books including his latest sacred 43 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:13,600 Earth, sacred soul in, which he utilizes the Celtic spiritual 44 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:18,000 tradition to call on the During World to reawaken to the 45 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:22,300 sacredness of Earth, and every human being to heal ourselves 46 00:03:22,500 --> 00:03:27,700 and our modern world Newell speaks of himself as a Wandering 47 00:03:27,700 --> 00:03:31,200 teacher following the ancient path of many lone teachers 48 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:35,100 before him in the Celtic World, seeking the well-being of the 49 00:03:35,100 --> 00:03:39,400 world, he has been described as having the heart of a Celtic 50 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:43,400 Bard, and the mind of a Celtic scholar combining in his 51 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:45,500 teachings, the poetic and the intellectual. 52 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:49,600 Boil the head, as well as the heart and spiritual awareness as 53 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,300 well as political and ecological concern. 54 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:57,600 His writings including 15 books have been translated into seven 55 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:02,100 languages in 2016. He began the school of Earth and 56 00:04:02,100 --> 00:04:06,500 soul and teaches in the United States and Canada as well as 57 00:04:06,500 --> 00:04:10,800 leading international pilgrimage weeks in Iona in The Western 58 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:15,000 Isles of Scotland. When we spoke he was in his 59 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,500 office and bra. Surrounded by books and wearing 60 00:04:18,500 --> 00:04:22,000 a turquoise and indigo scarf, which accentuated his Bright 61 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,900 Eyes. Even more striking was his 62 00:04:24,900 --> 00:04:30,100 grounded presence soon. My own harried Pace, slowed down 63 00:04:30,300 --> 00:04:33,000 to match, the steadiness of his deep breaths. 64 00:04:34,100 --> 00:04:37,500 Much of what we spoke about. Involve the concept of what is 65 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,100 sacred. The word sacred can be 66 00:04:40,100 --> 00:04:44,300 translated as hallowed. Revered or made Holy by 67 00:04:44,300 --> 00:04:48,500 association with divinity or Divine things by religious 68 00:04:48,500 --> 00:04:52,900 ceremony or sanction. I always considered sacred to be 69 00:04:52,900 --> 00:04:56,800 distant and lofty. Yet, John Phillips perspective 70 00:04:56,900 --> 00:05:00,800 allowed me to engage with the word sacred in a new way as 71 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:05,000 something, which feels close to home to the self and most of all 72 00:05:05,100 --> 00:05:08,800 to the Earth, Here is our interview with John Philip 73 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:24,300 Newell. Well, first of all, thank you so 74 00:05:24,300 --> 00:05:26,900 much for joining us today. Thank you, Dory. 75 00:05:26,900 --> 00:05:29,900 It's great to be with you. And Jonathan, thank you for the 76 00:05:29,900 --> 00:05:36,600 invitation, our pleasure Celtic wisdom is intuitively available 77 00:05:36,900 --> 00:05:39,700 to everyone yet as a global Society. 78 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:44,200 Society we have largely Fallen away from what it offers. 79 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,300 How do you find your own connection to Celtic wisdom? 80 00:05:48,300 --> 00:05:52,400 Where did that start for you? Yeah, looking back on it. 81 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:54,600 You know what? At the sort of conscious of 82 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:59,100 intellectual level? It was something that I became 83 00:05:59,100 --> 00:06:03,200 aware of during the time of my university studies. 84 00:06:03,900 --> 00:06:09,400 And I remember first hearing a great Celtic teacher speak in 85 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:11,900 public. He was by that stage, she was 80 86 00:06:12,300 --> 00:06:17,800 years of age and I was about 20, and to hear this Celtic 87 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:22,500 Christian teacher, speak about the sacredness of Earth, and to 88 00:06:22,500 --> 00:06:25,900 speak about the way of non-violence, is the way of true 89 00:06:26,100 --> 00:06:28,600 relationship and interrelationship. 90 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:33,100 I realized, I was hearing what my soul was was longing for, and 91 00:06:33,100 --> 00:06:36,700 I did, I hadn't even quite known that I was so longing for it. 92 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,100 So I think that's that's when things Began to sort of happen 93 00:06:41,100 --> 00:06:44,900 after more, conscious level, looking back over my life, I 94 00:06:44,900 --> 00:06:50,900 think that much of this stream of wisdom, it was conveyed to 95 00:06:50,900 --> 00:06:56,500 make it quite naturally and, and much more in daily life, through 96 00:06:56,500 --> 00:07:01,600 through my Scottish, grandmother who lived with us for a while 97 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,400 when I was a boy. So, I came very close to her. 98 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:10,500 And I think she communicated with me much of the Central 99 00:07:11,300 --> 00:07:15,300 vision and spirit of this tradition without even being 100 00:07:15,300 --> 00:07:19,100 aware herself, that she was necessarily conveying, a 101 00:07:19,100 --> 00:07:23,300 tradition that had a lineage and a particular paths and 102 00:07:23,300 --> 00:07:27,100 particular, writings and teachers are associated with the 103 00:07:27,100 --> 00:07:29,600 day. So I think I was breathing in 104 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,700 some of that quite naturally through her. 105 00:07:33,100 --> 00:07:39,200 I think the other thing I'd want to say is that I think part of 106 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:44,800 the Grace of this tradition and not just this tradition, but by 107 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,400 many other great spiritual Traditions, that pay attention 108 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:53,300 to our innate knowing of sacredness of Earth. 109 00:07:53,300 --> 00:07:57,600 And sacredness of every human being, I think these these 110 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:04,400 Traditions set free or give some language to, to a type of 111 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,600 knowing that I think is ours in childhood. 112 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:12,900 But But often it's attack of knowing that the desire either 113 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:19,800 suppressed, or denied or covered over when, when other sort of 114 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:25,200 cultural National Religious themes, find that sort of 115 00:08:25,500 --> 00:08:29,500 instinctive knowing of the Sacred inconvenient to 116 00:08:29,500 --> 00:08:31,700 nationhood, or to religion or culture. 117 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:37,900 So I think that, that, that much of this way of narrowing in this 118 00:08:37,900 --> 00:08:42,400 is part of what I try to convey. Communicate in the new book is 119 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:47,200 about Awakening to what our soul already, at some level knows. 120 00:08:47,300 --> 00:08:53,600 So I would speak to that in terms of a tradition that 121 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:58,600 actually just gave me some articulation for what I and what 122 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:04,600 I believe we early on already know that actually leads 123 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:06,200 beautifully into my next question. 124 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:10,200 I was going to ask that say Earth. 125 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:14,000 Sacred soul is a book of Celtic. Wisdom for Reawakening to what 126 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:15,100 our souls? No. 127 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,100 Can you tell us? What has caused this need for 128 00:09:19,100 --> 00:09:22,300 Reawakening? Meaning how did we as a 129 00:09:22,300 --> 00:09:25,400 collective lose sight of these truth? 130 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,500 Yeah and I think one of the interesting things and we want 131 00:09:29,500 --> 00:09:34,100 one of the important characters in the new book is is the fifth 132 00:09:34,100 --> 00:09:38,000 century. Irish Saint Saint Brigid who's 133 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:42,000 very much at type of icon On of sacredness of the feminine and 134 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:46,200 sacredness of Earth. And these two, ICS Inseparable 135 00:09:46,900 --> 00:09:50,300 and tragically, what we've done to the feminine. 136 00:09:50,300 --> 00:09:54,500 We've often done to the Earth in terms of subordination or abuse. 137 00:09:54,500 --> 00:09:58,600 So one of one of the features of Bridget that I find. 138 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:04,900 So so interesting and related to your question, is that Bridget 139 00:10:04,900 --> 00:10:08,600 is sort of rising in people's Consciousness, all over the 140 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,500 place I miss her. Been in the Celtic world. 141 00:10:12,100 --> 00:10:15,200 And why is she rising in our Consciousness now? 142 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,300 And I think she's rising in our Consciousness because we need 143 00:10:19,300 --> 00:10:23,900 her, we need to sort of wisdom that she embodies. 144 00:10:24,500 --> 00:10:28,100 So, I think that in times of need and especially in times of 145 00:10:28,100 --> 00:10:32,900 urgent, need and we are in such a time in our relationship with 146 00:10:32,900 --> 00:10:36,300 Earth and my relationship with the feminine at that voices. 147 00:10:36,500 --> 00:10:43,000 Do emerge in a time of Urgent, need for those with ears to 148 00:10:43,008 --> 00:10:47,800 hear, and I think many of us are are eager to hear wisdom that 149 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,100 has been neglected or lost. So I think the urgency of the 150 00:10:51,108 --> 00:10:56,000 moment is part of why we're hearing these themes Rise Again 151 00:10:56,500 --> 00:10:59,900 within us and Among Us and, and is never just a matter of 152 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,900 regurgitating or repeating wisdom from the past. 153 00:11:04,900 --> 00:11:09,000 I think it's always were always being called to hear ancient 154 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:13,600 wisdom and new Ways how I love, what the the Jewish Mystics 155 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:18,400 speak of when they speak of new ancient words because it's never 156 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:20,900 just a matter of recovering. Ancient wisdom. 157 00:11:20,900 --> 00:11:27,600 It's matter them finding new expression, new application, and 158 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:33,400 new Enlightenment for now. So, I think that's very much to 159 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:37,500 do with why, why this is rising, in our Consciousness, and a new 160 00:11:37,500 --> 00:11:43,700 way part of What I explore in the book is more to do with also 161 00:11:43,700 --> 00:11:50,400 with well, why was this wisdom tradition suppressed and I 162 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:55,600 explore that quite a bit in relation to what was happening 163 00:11:55,600 --> 00:12:02,000 in the fourth century. When Christianity overnight 164 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:06,700 almost got into bed with Empire move from being Quite A 165 00:12:06,700 --> 00:12:12,400 persecuted minority within the Roman, Prior to almost overnight 166 00:12:12,700 --> 00:12:17,900 occupying, a place of great Prestige and power and privilege 167 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:23,800 and that didn't come with how to Christ and the the price that 168 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:28,700 Empire required and the price that Empire always requires. 169 00:12:28,700 --> 00:12:32,000 And you know I'm not just speaking about the Roman Empire. 170 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:36,300 Speaking about how the British Empire has behaved, historically 171 00:12:36,300 --> 00:12:39,000 or about how the American Empire behaves? 172 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:44,300 Any nation that tries to dominate the world or to exploit 173 00:12:44,300 --> 00:12:46,900 the world's for its own well-being. 174 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:51,700 Rather than for the well-being of all five, often finds ways of 175 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:57,600 hijacking, religion and and making it convenient to Empire. 176 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,600 So we need to be very suspicious. 177 00:13:01,700 --> 00:13:06,000 We need to be asking lots of questions but what on Earth was 178 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:11,600 happening in the 4th century and Any of the doctrines that were 179 00:13:12,300 --> 00:13:18,700 put forward when Christianity became Imperial religion were 180 00:13:18,700 --> 00:13:23,500 doctrines that were highly convenient to Empire and one of 181 00:13:23,500 --> 00:13:27,900 them was a doctrine that formerly was called the doctrine 182 00:13:27,900 --> 00:13:31,300 of creation ex nihilo creation out of nothing. 183 00:13:32,100 --> 00:13:37,500 In which the Imperial church was I think Under Pressure to teach 184 00:13:38,300 --> 00:13:43,800 that matter. The universe Earth was created 185 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:50,000 by God out of nothing because if one neutralizers matter in a 186 00:13:50,008 --> 00:13:53,500 sense by saying, well, it was created out of nothing, then we 187 00:13:53,500 --> 00:13:56,700 can do whatever we want to it. Instead of seeing that this 188 00:13:56,700 --> 00:14:01,100 stuff, the stuff of the human body is sacred, how we handle 189 00:14:01,100 --> 00:14:04,800 one, another and relationship, how we care for the most 190 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,100 physical needs of those who are hungry and homeless and seeking 191 00:14:08,100 --> 00:14:11,900 sanctuary and our nation's. These Are Holy Martyrs and how 192 00:14:11,900 --> 00:14:14,600 we handled. The matter of the body of birth 193 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:19,300 is is a holy matter. So the Celtic teachers at that 194 00:14:19,300 --> 00:14:25,100 stage were increasingly seen as inconvenient to Empire and they 195 00:14:25,100 --> 00:14:29,000 paid the price by being excommunicated by being judged, 196 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,400 by being condemned, by being written all, because what the 197 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:37,300 Celtic teachers at that stage in in the Celtic world were 198 00:14:37,300 --> 00:14:41,200 teaching is creation. Was not made out of nothing. 199 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,900 And they were instead speaking about creation coming out of the 200 00:14:44,900 --> 00:14:50,300 very substance of the Divine, which is still somewhat shocking 201 00:14:50,300 --> 00:14:55,100 to our dualistic, Western ears, you know, with divided Spirit 202 00:14:55,100 --> 00:14:58,000 from matter, Heaven from Earth, to Divine from the human. 203 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:03,100 So that's that's part of what I traced in the book and it's it's 204 00:15:03,100 --> 00:15:07,400 important that we do some critiquing of what happened in 205 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:11,700 the journey that has led us. To follow that relationship with 206 00:15:11,700 --> 00:15:16,600 her truly is, you are already alluding to this but there have 207 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,800 been so many terrible things that have happened, even just in 208 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,900 the last few weeks in the news and in our world. 209 00:15:23,100 --> 00:15:27,300 And in your most recent book you say that the crisis that we are 210 00:15:27,300 --> 00:15:31,000 in the midst of today. Whether ecological, political or 211 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:35,000 societal stem from the fact that we treat the Earth and one 212 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:39,200 another as less than sacred, how can people start to see 213 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:41,700 themselves? Selves and the Earth is sacred, 214 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:45,300 especially given that so many people see themselves as 215 00:15:45,300 --> 00:15:49,700 separate from the earth and the environment session important 216 00:15:49,700 --> 00:15:56,600 question and, you know, over my years of teaching and leading 217 00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:00,600 Retreats and is it for me? It's never it's never just a 218 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:06,500 matter of teaching I always try to accompany teaching with 219 00:16:06,500 --> 00:16:10,300 spiritual practice and meditation so that, Not just a 220 00:16:10,300 --> 00:16:16,200 matter of becoming conscious up here, but it's trying to pay her 221 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,700 tensioner to deeper level as well. 222 00:16:19,300 --> 00:16:23,700 So, you know, when I'm teaching, I just never agree to go 223 00:16:23,700 --> 00:16:26,400 straight from teaching into discussion. 224 00:16:27,100 --> 00:16:32,400 I always either myself or with colleague lead us into Times of 225 00:16:32,900 --> 00:16:38,900 time of meditation, sometimes. Very simple walking meditations 226 00:16:38,900 --> 00:16:42,200 outside. I mean, if I'm on my favorite 227 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,100 island in the world, the island of Iona out, in The Western 228 00:16:45,100 --> 00:16:50,500 Isles, you know, I immediately put aside for a while to pay 229 00:16:50,500 --> 00:16:54,800 attention within, but all should pay attention to the wisdom that 230 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,100 the Earth is forever, trying to speak to us. 231 00:16:57,700 --> 00:17:01,900 And then out of that time of Silence, meditative practice, I 232 00:17:01,900 --> 00:17:07,000 believe we we approach a deeper place of knowing which is which 233 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,500 is more of a balance between head and heart. 234 00:17:09,700 --> 00:17:14,300 Two type of equipoise between head and heart and I think 235 00:17:14,300 --> 00:17:20,200 that's a deeper place of knowing and experiencing the sacred. 236 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,300 So that is not just a matter of hearing about it. 237 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,500 I mean, I think a lot of our religious tradition has been 238 00:17:26,500 --> 00:17:32,700 based on statements about the sacred rather than an experience 239 00:17:32,700 --> 00:17:36,600 of the Sacred or opening ourselves to an encounter with 240 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,800 the sacred within us and within one another other and within the 241 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:46,200 Earth. And I think that one of the main 242 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:51,300 challenges are around knowing sacredness and one another. 243 00:17:51,900 --> 00:17:57,700 And in Earth is that many of us have been sort of paralyzed by 244 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,700 doubting the sacredness of our own being. 245 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:07,100 So, one of the one of the meditative trance, I have worked 246 00:18:07,100 --> 00:18:09,500 on in collaboration with the musician. 247 00:18:09,700 --> 00:18:15,100 Except two words from the Quran. And the words are whichever way 248 00:18:15,100 --> 00:18:18,500 you turn. There is the face of God. 249 00:18:19,300 --> 00:18:22,300 So sometimes when we're using that, you know, I encourage 250 00:18:22,300 --> 00:18:26,600 people to look into the eyes of the person next to them to see 251 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,800 this light that comes from from within. 252 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:33,800 But at the end of that exercise, our practice, I always say now, 253 00:18:34,100 --> 00:18:38,200 the most challenging thing now is to go, go back to your room 254 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,800 and look in the mirror. And get in touch with the 255 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:45,500 sacredness that you are that is at the very heart of your being. 256 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:50,600 Because I think one of the one of the obstacles to knowing, and 257 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,000 being receptive and being attentive to sacredness and one, 258 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:58,200 another is, they're often filled with doubt about about the 259 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:03,000 sacredness that we bear the heart of our own being, that's 260 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:07,600 an important aspect in in Reawakening to what is within 261 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,800 us. Personally, As well as one 262 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:16,500 another and that's why these personal spiritual practices are 263 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:21,200 very much part of the way, the way forward collectively as 264 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,200 well. One of the things that I love to 265 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:30,000 remember, from John Muir, who, in many ways, is the greatest 266 00:19:30,700 --> 00:19:33,800 prophet of ecological Consciousness and in the modern 267 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,000 world at one of the things he says, is keep, you know, keep 268 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,400 returning to the mountain, have a key. 269 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,200 Keep going. Keep going back into the wild 270 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:48,000 back into the, the Untamed sacredness of Earth. 271 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,500 And he says, you know, when we go back, our ancient Mother, 272 00:19:52,500 --> 00:19:58,800 Love of Earth will rise again. And I've had that so important 273 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:03,300 because he's not saying, you know, we don't have to instill a 274 00:20:03,300 --> 00:20:07,900 love of Earth in one another, our role I think is just to 275 00:20:07,900 --> 00:20:11,200 awaken that what? Your calls that ancient mother 276 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:16,700 loved us is something were born with, we're of Earth, and our 277 00:20:16,700 --> 00:20:21,100 love of Earth is something deep within us, but it's often been 278 00:20:21,100 --> 00:20:25,100 ignored or covered over smothered and it's a better. 279 00:20:25,100 --> 00:20:29,700 It's about Reawakening it. So, how do we keep enabling 280 00:20:29,700 --> 00:20:33,800 ourselves to fall in love again with her? 281 00:20:34,100 --> 00:20:37,800 And I think this is so important in our in our ecological 282 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:42,000 activism and And such important movements for change. 283 00:20:42,008 --> 00:20:48,800 We sometimes undercount undermined the efficacy and 284 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:50,700 strength and passion of a movement. 285 00:20:50,700 --> 00:20:55,200 If we don't allow ourselves to keep falling in love because 286 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,700 love is the great fires, the great energy, it's the great 287 00:20:58,700 --> 00:21:02,900 Passion for for change. So let's let's keep making sure 288 00:21:02,900 --> 00:21:07,700 that we're being nourished and we're set on fire because that 289 00:21:07,700 --> 00:21:10,700 that's what holds the greatest. Shoot for change. 290 00:21:11,900 --> 00:21:15,400 That's an incredible thought that falling in love, is what we 291 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,300 need in order to bring about change and what we need in order 292 00:21:18,300 --> 00:21:22,100 to nourish ourselves. So you mentioned before, John, 293 00:21:22,100 --> 00:21:25,600 Muir and you mentioned that in your book, you walk through the 294 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,400 lives and teachings of John Muir. 295 00:21:28,700 --> 00:21:32,800 And we have been examining John Muir and all his complexity this 296 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,300 season. Can you expand a little on why 297 00:21:35,300 --> 00:21:39,400 you chose to include him in, sacred Earth, sacred soul, and 298 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:44,700 what is your connection to him? Yeah, well he was we claim him 299 00:21:44,700 --> 00:21:50,400 in Scotland here as Iris but I do, I am prepared to speak of 300 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,000 him as an American count. He was born just down the coast 301 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:58,500 from Edinburgh where I am. So he's much celebrated here 302 00:21:58,500 --> 00:22:02,300 and, and just over the top of the wall from our property. 303 00:22:02,300 --> 00:22:07,100 Here is the Edinburgh botanical gardens with the John Muir Grove 304 00:22:07,100 --> 00:22:11,700 of redwoods. And every year I'm in, In 305 00:22:11,700 --> 00:22:15,100 California and doing some teaching and when I'm there, I 306 00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:21,500 always visit the Muir Woods and my goodness, it's this natural 307 00:22:21,900 --> 00:22:27,400 Cathedral of the Divine and when I come back to the mirror Grove 308 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:32,500 here, I realize who these these red was, I'm in their 309 00:22:32,500 --> 00:22:38,700 adolescence compared to the Sequoia out and in the Muir 310 00:22:38,700 --> 00:22:41,400 Woods so-and-so mirrors, much celebrate. 311 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:45,400 Here. And, and interestingly, he is 312 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:49,700 one of these characters who has been rising and in our 313 00:22:49,700 --> 00:22:54,500 Consciousness, more precisely because we need his voice again. 314 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:59,100 But at, you know, as you say he is a person of considerable 315 00:22:59,100 --> 00:23:04,500 complexity especially early on. And, and part of what is 316 00:23:04,500 --> 00:23:10,500 rightfully been drawn to our attention is the racism that he 317 00:23:11,500 --> 00:23:15,100 Gave expression to an embodied as a young man. 318 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:20,100 And part of what I do in the book is trying to say two things 319 00:23:20,100 --> 00:23:25,600 in relation to that one, is that he was expressing a racism, that 320 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:31,700 was very typical of the Fairly narrow closed Society of 321 00:23:31,700 --> 00:23:38,000 Scotland in relation to not having much encounter with 322 00:23:38,300 --> 00:23:41,100 relationship with native peoples. 323 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,000 People of color. And so on that, the so-called 324 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:49,700 other was was sort of still quite strange to the narrow 325 00:23:49,700 --> 00:23:51,900 culture of Scotland at that stage. 326 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:57,400 So what he was evidencing was very typical of his generation 327 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:03,000 and his culture that in no sense excuses it but it's to place it 328 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:07,900 in context as a disgraceful feature of of 19th century 329 00:24:07,900 --> 00:24:11,700 Scotland at that stage, the other thing I point out, Out in 330 00:24:11,700 --> 00:24:17,400 the book is that he evolves. He he unfolds and thank God in 331 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:22,300 very beautiful ways in relation to his openness and closeness to 332 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,200 Native leaders, especially in Alaska. 333 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,800 And I think there's there's been a bit of forgetting of that. 334 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:35,500 And I think that the overall Readiness to, to just announce 335 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:41,400 with without linking that also to a Thanksgiving that the 336 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:48,700 Became more than that, and that in his only pollution, he is a 337 00:24:48,700 --> 00:24:52,100 sign of hope. He's assigned of the evolution 338 00:24:52,100 --> 00:24:55,700 that we're all being invited into individually and 339 00:24:55,700 --> 00:25:00,600 collectively. So I think that that's one of 340 00:25:00,608 --> 00:25:04,200 the reasons why I was glad to include mirror in a book that 341 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:09,700 was coming out at this point in time that I could I could try to 342 00:25:09,700 --> 00:25:13,400 say two things. Because I think the to always 343 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:17,400 must be said and just the acknowledgement that people can 344 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,400 evolve and people can change is so important. 345 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,700 So do trees have a place within your practice and spirituality? 346 00:25:25,500 --> 00:25:29,200 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I've just mentioned the 347 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,700 potential Gardens just over the wall and they botanical gardens 348 00:25:33,700 --> 00:25:37,300 for so close here that I sort of see it as an extension of my own 349 00:25:37,300 --> 00:25:41,200 property. I'm sure it's a dangerous thing 350 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,500 to be. Enjoying the gardens without 351 00:25:45,500 --> 00:25:49,000 actually having much responsibility for them but I 352 00:25:49,300 --> 00:25:54,200 get em to the gardens almost every day that I'm at home here 353 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,900 in Denver. And and what a Grace it is to 354 00:25:56,900 --> 00:26:03,500 move among the trees and especially I go to the, John, 355 00:26:03,500 --> 00:26:12,000 Muir Grove of Giant Sequoia and that for me, is it is The day 356 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,400 after day, here it is. My place of sanctuary. 357 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:20,800 It is my place for prayers, my place of meditation to commune 358 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:28,100 amidst the trees and I mean I've had a journey in relation to my 359 00:26:28,100 --> 00:26:33,700 own religion of inheritance. Hi, I trained the illogically as 360 00:26:33,700 --> 00:26:36,000 young man. I became a minister of the 361 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:42,000 Church of Scotland and about two years ago I realized Need to 362 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:47,300 relinquish my ordination with the church of Scotland realizing 363 00:26:47,300 --> 00:26:53,200 that that what is most sacred to me which is what I'm most 364 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:59,500 passionate about my the Church of my inheritance does not speak 365 00:26:59,500 --> 00:27:04,400 this vision of Earth, sacredness and the sacredness of every 366 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,100 human being. So I think at this stage in my 367 00:27:08,100 --> 00:27:14,900 life I'm I'm even more. Attentive to aware of what the 368 00:27:14,900 --> 00:27:19,900 Cathedral of Earth, sea and sky including these, these great, 369 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,800 this great Redwood Grove is so close to me. 370 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,800 Again. I mean, looking back on my 371 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:29,100 journey, I think in many ways what I'm doing by going to the 372 00:27:29,100 --> 00:27:32,900 Grove every day for my prayer and meditation. 373 00:27:33,700 --> 00:27:36,900 I think I'm just sort of returning too much of what I 374 00:27:36,908 --> 00:27:45,100 knew as a child, I was Grew up in a context where we are on 375 00:27:45,100 --> 00:27:51,000 farmland and I know looking back that that's where I was 376 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,800 receiving much, my strength walking in the woods and in the 377 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,800 valley but my my religious tradition hadn't given me 378 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:07,300 language to be more conscious of that being an experience of 379 00:28:07,300 --> 00:28:12,100 communion with the sacred. So Absolutely. 380 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:18,000 And one of the features of the Celtic tradition that I draw 381 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,900 out, and the new book is that there's really a lot of radical 382 00:28:21,900 --> 00:28:27,200 continuity between the Celtic Christian mysticism and the 383 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:32,700 pre-christian, druidic wisdom, and, and the word drew, it just 384 00:28:32,700 --> 00:28:41,900 means Oak nor and so the the pre-christian context of Nature 385 00:28:41,900 --> 00:28:46,300 mysticism was happening, you know, again, and again an Oak 386 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,300 Grove's or in the presence of great. 387 00:28:49,300 --> 00:28:53,900 Oak trees. These massively strong trees. 388 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:59,200 Often upgrade edge with roots, reaching deep into the Earth, 389 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,900 and branches, reaching up to heaven very much. 390 00:29:02,900 --> 00:29:09,100 This, this important connection between the above and the below 391 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:11,900 of Heaven and Earth there. Very much. 392 00:29:11,900 --> 00:29:15,800 So, what advice do you have for anyone who is looking to 393 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:20,800 continue to reawaken to Celtic wisdom and to heal the world in 394 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,700 our environment? Where do you suggest a person? 395 00:29:23,700 --> 00:29:27,500 Begin. One of the important chapters in 396 00:29:27,508 --> 00:29:32,700 the book is the one on P are tired to Chardon. 397 00:29:32,900 --> 00:29:38,200 The 20th century scientist, Mystic Jesuit, priest, who like 398 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,300 many of his Celtic teachers paid the price. 399 00:29:41,500 --> 00:29:45,500 For trying to speak truth from the human soul and was silenced 400 00:29:45,500 --> 00:29:50,300 for much of his life by the Vatican and then thank God, plus 401 00:29:50,300 --> 00:29:53,300 the end of his life. He agreed to an act of 402 00:29:53,300 --> 00:29:58,700 Disobedience and sometimes disobedience is the holy path. 403 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:03,100 I think to, to give voice to an attempt to suppress it. 404 00:30:04,100 --> 00:30:09,100 And so, he signed over his writings to his personal 405 00:30:09,100 --> 00:30:13,100 assistant in Paris madam I sell more ta, which meant that when 406 00:30:13,100 --> 00:30:16,800 he died, all of these writings that the Vatican had not allowed 407 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:21,000 to be published were hers, rather than the churches. 408 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:26,500 And she began to reduce them part of what tared writes about 409 00:30:26,500 --> 00:30:31,600 in in a work, called The Heart of the matter in which he says 410 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,700 that the deeper we move in in the matter of Earth. 411 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,400 The closer we come to the Divine, one of the things, one 412 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,300 of the transition points in his life. 413 00:30:41,500 --> 00:30:46,100 There was so important was when he realized that that he could 414 00:30:46,100 --> 00:30:51,600 not only sort of stand in front of a tree and love the essence 415 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,200 of the tree, love the life within the life of the tree. 416 00:30:55,300 --> 00:30:59,600 He realized that in standing before the tree he could 417 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:04,300 experience being loved by the life within the life of the 418 00:31:04,300 --> 00:31:07,500 tree. So he realized it was radically 419 00:31:07,500 --> 00:31:14,400 relational and that is that Radical relationality, they were 420 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:19,400 being invited into not only to love Earth but to allow 421 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:26,300 ourselves to know that we are loved our birth and to allow 422 00:31:26,300 --> 00:31:31,100 ourselves to know, not only the love of Earth, but the mercy of 423 00:31:31,100 --> 00:31:35,000 Earth. I believe that we can know that 424 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:41,800 the Earth will have mercy on us if we choose and seek to be To 425 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,600 her. That was one of the things that 426 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,500 John Muir said, Earth has no Sorrows that Earth cannot heal. 427 00:31:49,300 --> 00:31:53,500 So, let's allow ourselves to be in this sort of radical 428 00:31:53,900 --> 00:31:57,800 relationality with the planet and with everything that has 429 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,200 being. So, I think one of one of the 430 00:32:00,208 --> 00:32:04,700 things that I encourage again, in terms of spiritual practice, 431 00:32:04,700 --> 00:32:09,200 when I'm, when I'm teaching on Iona, pilgrimages or teaching at 432 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:15,000 the school of Earth and soul, is to encourage people to go out, 433 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,300 literally, understand, and before a tree, or to stand 434 00:32:18,300 --> 00:32:24,300 before some expression of life form and to, to have that 435 00:32:24,300 --> 00:32:29,500 two-way communication to to, not only allow our hearts to try to 436 00:32:29,500 --> 00:32:33,200 express what we're feeling towards the essence of the tree, 437 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:37,600 or the essence of that life-form and then, to move into listening 438 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:42,200 posture, and to allow ourselves to be addressed Because that, 439 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,100 you know, that's that's the nature of love. 440 00:32:44,100 --> 00:32:49,700 There's no to it's it's mutual and it's not just our speaking. 441 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:55,300 It is that it's about listening and to allow ourselves to be 442 00:32:55,300 --> 00:32:59,300 changed by what we hear. Of course, you know, that in a 443 00:32:59,300 --> 00:33:04,400 culture in a western world that had said of neutralized matter 444 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,900 and didn't allow any any sort of spiritual energy or presence, 445 00:33:08,900 --> 00:33:11,100 you know, that that just sounds Madness. 446 00:33:11,300 --> 00:33:17,800 To allow ourselves to listen. But I believe that is what we're 447 00:33:17,900 --> 00:33:21,000 being called to do. And we're living in the in the 448 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,800 tragedy of not having listened for hundreds of years and its 449 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,500 creators brought us the impasse that we're at now. 450 00:33:28,300 --> 00:33:32,100 But hopefully, we can with your wisdom and with the wisdom of 451 00:33:32,100 --> 00:33:34,900 the trees. Allow ourselves to be changed by 452 00:33:34,900 --> 00:33:38,600 what we hear and not allow ourselves a chance to listen. 453 00:33:39,300 --> 00:33:43,800 Yeah, even when things look dire, you've shown that there is 454 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,200 always hope always an intuitive guidance. 455 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:51,800 That leads us towards trusting our innate wisdom, a new way to 456 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:56,400 see things in our world, and to go deeper into the truths of our 457 00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,300 sacredness and the sacredness of everything around us. 458 00:34:00,700 --> 00:34:03,300 We are so honored to speak with you today. 459 00:34:03,300 --> 00:34:05,500 Thank you so much for this conversation. 460 00:34:06,300 --> 00:34:08,500 Thank you. Doris been so good to be with 461 00:34:08,500 --> 00:34:10,699 you and Jonathan, thank you so much. 462 00:34:11,300 --> 00:34:22,600 Blessings to you. The wisdom that is the heart of 463 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,000 John Phillips. Book comes from the Celts. 464 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:29,300 Well, today we imagine Celtic land, as inhabiting Ireland, 465 00:34:29,300 --> 00:34:32,900 Scotland, Wales and Cornwall. When first referred to 466 00:34:32,900 --> 00:34:37,699 historically around 500 BCE, the Celts were actually a collection 467 00:34:37,699 --> 00:34:41,100 of tribes spanning the whole of middle Europe. 468 00:34:41,100 --> 00:34:45,800 Ranging from what is now turkey to the Atlantic Coastline of 469 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,600 present-day, Spain? In fact by the 1st Century ad, 470 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:55,600 Celtic territories had become part of the Roman Empire and by 471 00:34:55,699 --> 00:35:00,000 Circa, 500 Celtic culture had mostly become restricted to 472 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,500 Ireland, Western and Northern Britain and Brittany between the 473 00:35:04,500 --> 00:35:07,600 5th and 8th centuries. The Celtic speaking communities. 474 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:11,800 In these Atlantic regions emerged, as quite a cultural 475 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:16,900 entity with a common linguistic, religious, and artistic Heritage 476 00:35:16,900 --> 00:35:19,700 that distinguish them from surrounding cultures. 477 00:35:21,300 --> 00:35:24,900 The Celtic spiritual Traditions are rooted in peace. 478 00:35:25,300 --> 00:35:29,700 Aiming to facilitate three conditions and opening within 479 00:35:29,700 --> 00:35:33,700 the human heart, a Sheltering sense of Solace and the world. 480 00:35:33,700 --> 00:35:38,300 For those who struggle and an ongoing sensual celebration of 481 00:35:38,300 --> 00:35:42,300 the beauty of Life. The early Christian Celts were 482 00:35:42,300 --> 00:35:46,300 able to see a divine presence in nature, one that stressed 483 00:35:46,300 --> 00:35:50,200 humanity. And dignity for all one way in 484 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,000 which ancient I'll take practice, Incorporated nature, 485 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:57,500 is that rituals were all conducted outside near and Wiz 486 00:35:57,500 --> 00:36:01,300 sacred trees oak trees. Specifically called Mehmet. 487 00:36:01,300 --> 00:36:07,400 Ons, nemeton is a Celtic word and means holy Grove, nematodes 488 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,200 can be found across the Celtic world, including Spain, France, 489 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:16,100 Ireland, and Scotland, the Celts have long been a people who 490 00:36:16,100 --> 00:36:19,600 appreciate the mysterious nature of the space between where one 491 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,900 thing ends and another begins. Begins transitional periods of 492 00:36:23,900 --> 00:36:27,800 any sort are considered sacred because they provide a gap or 493 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:32,200 window into higher dimensions. And even include the time of 494 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,800 death dusk Dawn, the time between day and night are seen 495 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,800 as points of mystical power. Within the liminal places is 496 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,800 where we can most easily access. The wisdom of the spiritual 497 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,500 World. John Phillips. 498 00:36:46,500 --> 00:36:49,600 Strikes me as someone quite Brave to engage with these 499 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,000 liminal spaces. Studying and teaching with those 500 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:57,200 of various faiths challenging himself to work outside of the 501 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:01,000 designated Church structures and putting himself in places where 502 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:06,900 he can ask questions rather than simply sit with answers using 503 00:37:06,900 --> 00:37:11,100 this Celtic wisdom. John, Philip reminds us that it 504 00:37:11,100 --> 00:37:16,100 is each one of us who decides what is sacred and that sacred 505 00:37:16,100 --> 00:37:21,000 simply means to set apart for each of us to actively. 506 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:25,000 Fate that, which is truly special, from what might be 507 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,900 pedestrian or mundane. It was interesting that John 508 00:37:28,900 --> 00:37:32,600 Philip explain how certain voices speak to us and gained 509 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:34,900 prominence in times when they are needed. 510 00:37:34,900 --> 00:37:40,200 Most for example, John Muir as well as Saint Brigid the patron, 511 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:45,000 saint of many things including poetry learning, healing, 512 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:49,100 protection blacksmithing. Livestock and dairy production. 513 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,800 She is also celebrated for Generosity for the poor 514 00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,800 Bridget's. Feast day is February 1st which 515 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,600 was originally a pre-christian pagan Festival, marking the 516 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:05,700 beginning of Spring next year. 2023 for the very first time st. 517 00:38:05,700 --> 00:38:09,400 Brigid's day will be marked as a public holiday in the Republic 518 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,600 of Ireland. The first named after a woman, 519 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,700 it's remarkable that at a time when we need her words, the most 520 00:38:17,700 --> 00:38:20,600 she is celebrated by the entire nation. 521 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:25,100 They chose to honor her and her wisdom and to set that day apart 522 00:38:25,100 --> 00:38:28,700 from others. It seems difficult. 523 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,800 But to recognize something in this way is fairly simple. 524 00:38:33,700 --> 00:38:38,300 As British writer Stewart. Wild once wrote, how do you make 525 00:38:38,300 --> 00:38:43,900 something sacred? You say this is sacred and you 526 00:38:43,900 --> 00:38:51,900 treated that way. Thank you for joining tree 527 00:38:51,900 --> 00:38:52,900 speech today.