Welcome to the Rockers Skating Podcast.
We have another interview for you today because it is the week
of pre world interviews and we have Caroline Green, Michael
Parsons here with me, the 2022 Ford Contents Champions and the
2026 Ford Contents Silver medalists.
How are you all doing? We're doing pretty well, just
finished long day of training. Yeah, a long day of training and
a long season, right? Yeah.
But I mean, this is, this is the week, this is the final week of
preparation. So that's crazy.
That was the last Monday of prep before we go.
Tomorrow will be the last Tuesday.
When do you when do you head out?
On Sunday. Sunday night.
OK, yeah. So you'll, you'll have a, you'll
have a whole week in Prague, which will be, I'll be.
I'm looking forward to yeah, yeah.
Well, especially there are worse places to be.
I know. Well, I mean, Michael, you and I
were just talking about the weather over there where you are
and driving through blizzards. The weather's been.
Nowhere too. Interesting, hasn't it?
It was like 70° yesterday. And snowing today.
So that's March in Michigan. Well, it's been kind of like
that in New York City as well, so.
Yeah, you're getting crazier weather than us from from
everything that I've seen that my cousin sent me.
I've got a cousin in in Midtown. Oh, nice.
Yeah, I know. It's it's been a little nuts.
All right, well, let's talk about the season.
It's been as we were, as we were just talking about.
It's been a long season. It's you know, it's one of those
where you feel like you have to be on from the very beginning.
And you know, you all were very prepared early this season, but
then had a very unfortunate fluke fall in the in the in cup
of China and the rhythm dance for you, Michael.
How was that in hindsight? And and and how, how is your hip
now after after a few months of recovery?
Luckily the the hip is fine now and I guess in hindsight, like
the good thing is everything is fine, but still like obviously I
wish it didn't happen right, but there's nothing to do about it
now. So luckily we had great care
there. So I got to experience not only
the the US Figure skating medical team, but the the
Chinese Federation's medical team, who are also awesome.
And the the week that we had in between that event and NHKI did
enough work that we were able to skate there and and do the best
we could. So I honestly don't feel like we
missed that much. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, you had a very short recovery period in between Grand
Prixs and a lot of people were like, are they going to be, you
know, ready for the second one? And, and you were so and, and
you skated very well there. So kind of.
There are some stiff days on the ice that week in between.
I think that was just like evidence of our preparation
going into the Grand Prix in general.
I think we just felt like really solid in our material and our
training and I mean stuff happens I slippery.
So I think we're really lucky to have like our support staff with
us in China and kind of giving us guidance for that week in
between. We had the ability to stay in
Japan the week in between. So just like that load off from
the back and forth travel and the time adjustment, I think
really helped us just stay like super laser focused and take a
deep breath and reset. So I was really glad that we
just trusted each other and our team to help us get through the
week at NHK and have the skates that we did because we're really
proud of those. And I do think those experiences
to make certain competitions feel so much better and more
impactful, like because of how well we skated and how hard we
we tried to like get back into competition shape in that week.
And that that NHK that we did this year is probably my
favorite competitions we've done over our career just because of
how we pulled together and how we came back and and skated our
best in an amazing arena. And I mean it.
I think it's hard not to have a great experience at an NHK
anyway. Yeah, you're all rock stars over
there. Everybody loves you.
So the, the, the element that you fell on was, was the, was
the twizzles in the, in the rhythm dance.
I, I continue to say you are first of all, like one of the
few, few, few teams who tried to do that rhythm dance twizzle all
on one foot. And, and there was a whole thing
earlier in the season with the levels being called and stuff.
Take me back to that. And, and sort of like, it's been
a weird season of, of calls in general, especially during the
fall. What, what, how did you kind of
think about the, the, the feedback that you're getting
from the panels? I guess that's like a perfect
example of of how you build through the season with feedback
from not only judges and coaches, but also from
competitions like we, we entered our first competition with a
completely different transition, transition between the twizzles
thinking that it would work and very.
Quickly ambitious thinking, how much twizzles can we do on one?
Yeah, we're like. Oh, and.
This would be fun. Yeah, so quickly found out that
that does not. That's illegal, yeah.
That does not work. So.
Which is really crazy that it doesn't.
Well, I guess it makes sense from a calling standpoint.
It's like, all right, you did one twizzle, now you're doing
another. So I need to call it something.
But we thought because it was still going the same direction
that it. Would be, yeah, where it kind of
got a little bit iffy was just there was, I believe the call
was that there was too much of A pause in between.
So it was in an eruption. So it wasn't a continuation of
the Twizzle. It was a different set traveling
the same direction, which is not OK.
So I think for Peace of Mind for us and to make the judge's job
really easy, we made the change and I think still got to keep
that one foot feature, which I think is still impressive in its
own right. So I think, yeah.
We'll see you next week. Kind of love that it's, it's,
it's been a thing. As you've gone through the
season, what kinds of adjustments and changes have you
made to either or both of your programs that you felt much more
comfortable with? I, I mean for these programs
compared to previous seasons, we haven't changed a lot.
And I think that's just a testament to how hard we worked
in sort of the construction and choreography phase and coming up
with really interesting elements where it felt like we've, you
know, add some of our best material right out of the gate.
It was honestly with the freelance, we had to adopt some
chorea elements to make them a little bit easier just for the
sake of a full program, which is kind of the opposite of what
we've done in years past where we start with a little bit of a
easier construction and then develop things and work on them
more to increase the difficulty. So it, I, I think at the start
of the season, we really just wanted to challenge ourselves as
much as possible because last season being so focused on
Michael's recovery and just taking things easy or not easy,
just just being mindful of like where our physical capacity was
at. I think we got super excited at
the chance to have more time to play around and experiment.
And we like to push ourselves very hard, which I think.
The Freeze definitely the hardest program like content
wise I think I've ever had this year's free, which is it's a
good thing, but it's also like you have to train for it so.
Yeah, those, some of those choral elements are, are a
little bit nuts. So and, and and you see you see
the effort that you've put into those programs and it's it, it
very much shows second year. I think you all are working with
Sean Luke Baker. How has that influenced your
style? And also the two of you are
known to have a lot of say and a lot of input into your programs
and and kind of the the creation of them.
I'd love to hear about a little bit more about that process.
That's, I think working with Jean Luc is so helpful for us
too, because we gel so well in this state where she kind of
like opens us up to create more things.
And so it really is this collaborative process where
we're all creating and working together.
And I think every team will find a choreographer that when they
work with them, they really feel like they can like show true
pieces of themselves. And I think for us, that's
definitely Jean Luc. He can really like pull our
feelings into whatever steps, whatever transition, whatever
element we're creating. And we found that out pretty
immediately the first year we worked with him.
So obviously at the end of last season we're like, yes, run it
back, let's do it again. Yeah, I, I think it's, it's his
openness like Michael talked about, and just his ability to
read people in general I think is very evident in the way that
he works with skaters. And I think it's really
interesting to see his work with other skaters in our camp too,
and how he's able to create such different pieces with every
single one of us. It's not like he has his
choreographic stamp and he's molding us into the skaters that
he wants to see. Like he really needs us where
we're at. And I think is a team who really
likes to be heavily involved in that creative process and have a
say. And just being a team who gets
so excited about being involved in that.
I think it's just been a really good math.
Now he no, the the two of you and Michael especially it were
like contemporaries of Jean Luc and Caitlin, you know, when they
were competing. How did did it feel A little bit
kind of weird is the word, but a a a little bit different right,
to work with him as a choreographer.
And how did that actually come about?
I, I know exactly where you're coming from with that, but
honestly, it just felt good. Like from the very first day
that we started working together.
And yeah, I've known Jean Luc since we competed in juvenile
and junior nationals. So it's been, it's been a very
long time that we've competed against each other and known
each other with, with different partners, with new partners.
And now just seeing like where he is in life is, is so cool
too. I'm super proud of him, yeah.
But yeah, from that very first now.
You got him on the rink side talking about you and practice
commentary, Yeah. I think I'm looking like every
possible he hasn't judged us yet, he has to become a judge
and like that would be the following.
Yeah, he'd be a tough judge, I think.
Hear that. Or he'll just like vibe with you
while he's judging. Yeah, yeah, you, you notice that
sometimes when you're skating by a judge will like, you can tell
when they're a little bit more into the program versus like
maybe they're trying to hide it versus they really aren't into
the program. And I feel like she might be one
of the judges that you see the yeah, they're into it.
Like I'm I'm going to make more contact.
With that, that was one of my favorite parts about him doing
ringside at nationals is like there's so many moments,
especially when we were practicing the freelance in
particular, where I kind of, we would like lock eyes at this
moment, which was really funny. So I was like, OK, I kind of
want to go back and look up Jerry.
I feel like, I, I feel like I need to do ringside with him for
ice dance because that's gonna be a different, a whole
different thing because I, I do it with, with the single
skaters. And there tends to be like we,
we, we often see the skaters look to us like we're judges.
Yeah. Well, because here's the thing
on practice, you guys are really the only ones who are down at
that judges level. So I think it's like.
We're just we're searching for eye contact.
Right. Exactly.
They're so far away. You.
Guys are right there. See.
It's right there. The number of times I've we've
been like winked at, It's kind of hilarious.
You. Have to have like a like a wink
meter in the corner. Yeah, you could have like a
little wink counter. Oh my God, hilarious.
OK, get back to choreography. Your free dance is one of the
more interesting ones of the season.
Choreographically, intellectually, just kind of the
the overall package you of many of the different ice dance teams
love to go with a different mood, with a different kind of
Music Choice. But that was something that is
not often seen even if you're like with your rhythm dances
where you know, it's not like you're doing Ricky Martin or
Backstreet Boys, right? Like there's there's there's a
lot of that sort of like you want to be outside the box in
some ways. Take me through the choreography
of this free dance, which Caroline, as you were telling
me, has been the subject of different theories as to who
what you're actually portraying. So let's set the record
straight. Which I think kind of might be
our fault because at the beginning of the season we we
hinted it's very inspired by Greek mythology as because I
think a lot of our programs, we do like to thematically leave
them open-ended to allow people to come to their own
interpretations and feel what they want to feel while they
watch. This game, it's very art history
major of a you. Know like.
Like a oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna. I'm gonna.
Put some dissertation around the turtle.
She says this to. Me, yeah, but our coach Tanith
brought this piece of music the escalates RB.
She played the I believe it's a recording taken from a live
performance where it's supported by these really haunting
strings. And like from the first, like
low cello note that she played on the ice beer immediately,
like, whoa, what's going on here?
I'm intrigued because at that point in the process, we were
really just really felt like we were throwing different things
at the wall and nothing was quite sticking and we felt a
little bit stuck. So to kind of like there are
very few moments you get where you hear a piece of music in a
rink and feel like, wow, what am I listening to?
I'm moved by this for some reason.
And I think, yeah, just hearing how it really filled up the rink
was, like made us really intrigued by it.
And we started moving to it. And I think from there, like the
choreography started to evolve pretty organically.
But I think since in years past we've kind of gone with this
more contemporary lens, a little bit more ambiguous, we kind of
wanted to try pushing ourselves to see if like a narrative
element would help inform the program as a whole.
And I think that's where getting inspired by Greek mythology
really came into play. And she brought us the story of
Arrows and Psyche, where Psyche is this beautiful mortal who
basically is so beautiful and gorgeous.
Wait, that's Michael. That's Michael.
No, that's me. She she earns the jealousy of
deity I believe in. She sends her son, heiress to
basically. Oh.
Because she's like, I can't have anyone be more beautiful than
me. This doesn't work.
Aris pricks himself with the arrow and then falls in love
with her. That's what arrows do, Cupid.
Otherwise known as Cupid in Roman mythology.
And from there, because that doesn't work, Aphrodite
basically gives Psyche all of these trials that surely no
mortal could complete. Impossible tasks, impossible
tasks. And Psyche is basically able to
conquer these sets of impossible tasks and earns the distinction
of Goddess. So wow.
So now, so at the end of the program, you're a goddess, of
course. Of course, of course.
Not that she doesn't start, but yes.
It's a goddess in training to start and then and then you and
then you end up being a goddess. It's like those K pop training
programs but but goddess. I'm going to have to go and
watch this program again because that's that it's, it's a, it's a
different kind of mindset, right, That you bring into it.
If you know the story, what about the costumes?
Because you, you started off the season with a different set of
costumes, right? And, and, and then you, you, you
as the season progressed, you actually had the the final
costumes if you're well made, so.
The, the costumes that we, we ended up with Grand Prix's
Nationals, we made a couple of adjustments more just like for
fit and like functionality rather than like design were the
original, like that was the intention.
Obviously early in the season. I think you see it with a lot of
teams just because our costumes can be so ornate and complex.
Just the development time and really figuring out and getting
those design components really settled and functional for the
ICE as well just takes a lot of time, so.
These were also they're the first costumes, at least to my
knowledge, that I've seen, that have 3D printed elements in
them, which definitely took some time to do.
They're very complex, so that involves in person fitting,
sending the costumes back and forth, discussing colors,
discussing. Both of your costumes have the
3D printed elements. Yeah, the yours is on the golden
right things on the front of her dress and the the one on my
back. Right, right, right.
It's actually 3D printed through the mesh, which I think is wow.
Yeah. OK.
That's interesting. I'm not even, we're not even
sure how the sausage gets made. Like, yeah, we get the end
result and get to go, wow, this is so amazing.
Thank you, Philippe. Thank you.
Yeah, Philippe Messe is your your costume designer.
Yeah, he's awesome. I mean, there's a reason why
Your costumes is absolutely one of the favourites from the
figure skating fandom, so. That's so nice to hear.
Works out very well. I like, I don't know how long I
spent on, like, Photoshop, just like changing the colours of the
dress to get it just right. At a certain point, the two had
to sit me down and be like, Caroline, there are only so many
colors of the rainbow. And you don't want a yellow
dress. You don't want an orange dress.
You don't want, like a brown dress.
Like there are only so many colors that can be.
You need to chill. So I'm glad that the end result
works really well on the ice and looks super effective.
And yeah. And this was this was actually a
subject of conversation, I think at nationals.
Is Caroline your love of barrettes in your hair?
OK, so these are actually not beret.
They're like, I think they're technically like bezels for like
jewelry making. They're all little individual
rings. I weave them one by one into my
hair with a crochet hook. It's ridiculous, but it looks
really cool it. Does.
Yeah, it does. I wish it was a breath.
They'll make my life so much. Easier now.
I remember the first time she showed up with them and everyone
was like, wow, that is amazing. So that's like the epic high of
how cool it is. And then the epic low is like
every time we're getting ready for for a day of training or
competition where she does that, I feel so bad like.
Five hours. This was a a nationalist when we
were in the Airbnb together. I think it was like one of the
first times Michael really like saw first hand the like getting
ready process for women in figure skating.
And it was a it was a very. Skated with my sister.
Yeah, I was like, I was like, you should have known it was
Rachel, right? But yeah, he he was really there
with me in the trenches of. The IT was a what would you like
for breakfast? I'll make breakfast.
You'd get ready and I'd like leave a little plate like on the
on the bedroom floor as she's in the bathroom.
Oh boy. Hey, as long as they don't fall
out, right, That's that's, that's an important.
Part and they don't because they're open into my head.
Oh boy. Well, this this conversation
went places that I didn't think it was going to go to.
So this is great. OK, so on to worlds.
You've had now a few weeks since Nationals and four continents
and it's been, you know, it's one of those seasons where you
really have to like measure yourself throughout this very
long season to make sure that you're peeking at the right
times and all that sort of stuff.
What's your preparation been like?
And you know what's the last month or so been like for you?
To we finished four continents and we were able to take a
couple days to just fully decompress, relax, and then from
then it was right back at the rink.
Of course, we didn't get any official notification until last
week, but we've been training since the week after 4
continents like we were going just assuming we're going better
to play it safe and like say Chuck and Bates decide to do
worlds like, Oh no, we're in really good shape like that.
That's the downside, which isn't even a downside.
So we've been training hard. We feel ready, feeling really
good and like we started this, this interview.
It's the the last week of preparation which is always
exciting. It's just been so great that our
season has extended in the way that.
It. Has just because I think we
we've poured so much into these programs and I think I've had
really rewarding experiences performing them for audiences.
I think they really do work differently in arena, especially
in nationals. Like just having the crowd
reaction that we did to the rhythm dance was like one of my
favorite moments ever. Very rarely do you get to have
skates where like Michael turns around and he gives him the blue
steel and then like the entire arena laughs like.
That felt good. It's just really, it's just
really fun to like have those interactive moments.
So I think we're looking forward to getting another opportunity
to do that at Worlds. Yeah, we're, we're just excited.
I get a lot of people asking like it's such a long season,
but it really doesn't feel that way.
Like even even before we knew we were going for Worlds it, it
hasn't felt like that long a season.
I think because we've been so focused on the training and as
long as you're approaching it the right way, like you just
keep training, as long as you're taking care of your body and
your mind, like it's all good. And we've got the privilege to
to skate more, so I'm happy. Your your third world's coming
up. You're in your 7th I believe
season skating together. Some of the highlights for you
over the last seven years. I, I still think one of my
favorite competitions of my entire career, not even just the
the seven years that we've been training together, is World's
last year in Boston. Just the amount of pressure you
felt going into the rink. Like, it literally felt like
there was this invisible curtain that all the skaters felt as
soon as you get off that big cargo elevator to the the level
where you're getting ready to warm up.
I love it. And then to to get out there and
to see a completely full arena and to skate and hear people
going. Oh yeah.
Like every time you go by the wall and to finish your program
it. Was literally every quarter.
Yeah, it was, it was so great. But to yeah, to finish a program
in that scenario is the reason why we do this, that the whole
competition was like the perfect embodiment of that with the
amount of teams that were cut from the the rhythm dance or cut
between rhythm and free. I'd never been to a competition
where so many didn't make the free 2.
So just like all of that played into this like crazy like build
up of pressure that just explodes into an amazing time
when you finish. Yeah, I, I literally remember
sitting, I think was it? It wasn't like a green.
It was like some, because we were US athletes, I think we
like snuck into like one of the medical rooms or something.
And like just to kind of like there was a lot of space in the
backstage at Worlds last year. So I remember like sitting there
with my sweet green salad. And like usually I don't really
key into kind of where they're at in the competition or like
watch people. But it was on.
And I think I saw in passing like the cut off mark for where
it was. And I'm like sitting there with
my sweet green, like, Oh, OK, that's that's pretty high.
But like, I think then you get into the space where there's
just so much energy and it's infectious.
You're like, OK, this is such a great opportunity.
I get to perform and share my skating with all these people.
Like this is what I asked for. So you're able to kind of like
all the scores or where you need to be to qualify for free kind
of goes in the background and you just get to be really
present and share skating with people who want to see skating.
Well, you ended up in the top 10, so no, no problems with
that. But I mean almost 69 points to
get into the freelance. It's like, that's crazy.
It's pretty nuts. I think it was lower than that
at the Olympics this year. So there's your difference.
Well, Caroline, Michael, thank you for joining me today.
I've been I've been wanting to talk to you for a very long
time. I'm glad we got a chance to do
it And and I will see you next week in Prague.
So best of luck with the best training.
Yeah, I'll be there. That's.
Cool, that's exciting. Thank you.
You got to got to stay ringside and start the wink counter for.
I wish. Yeah.
No, no wingside. Ah, wingside, I need to text.
They they get the comically large cane and they pull me out.
Literally literally need to text John Luke right now and tell him
which. Half door opens up.
Wink side. Wink side, Yeah, No, no, no
practice commentary for Worlds. But, you know, we'll make it
happen at some point, hopefully so.
All right, well, best of luck with training this week and best
of luck with Worlds. Bye.
Thank you. Thank you and see you soon.
Thank you everybody.