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Welcome to Grounded Wellness. 
I'm your host Bethany McDaniel, 

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founder of Primarily Pure, mom 
of Three, and biohacking 

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enthusiast. 
We created this podcast to bring

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you practical advice to live a 
more vibrant and intentional 

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life rooted in long lasting 
health. 

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We record right here on our 
regenerative farm, grounded with

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our feet in the soil, exploring 
bold truths, overlooked wisdom, 

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and holistic tools that support 
true well-being. 

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These conversations will 
challenge everything you know 

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about health and Wellness. 
Today's guest is someone whose 

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expertise and perspective is 
exactly what all of us need to 

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hear right now, especially as we
rethink the way we protect our 

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skin and honor our connection to
the sun. 

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Dr. Te'o Soleimani is a Stanford
trained double board certified 

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dermatologist and skin cancer 
surgeon who operates on some of 

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the most complex and high risk 
cases of skin cancer. 

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Known as the anti Dermatologist,
Dermatologist, Doctor Te'o 

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believes in a more simple, 
ancestral way of caring for the 

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skin. 
His philosophy bridges cutting 

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edge science with an intuitive 
understanding of how diet, light

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and lifestyle impact the skin 
and overall health. 

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He's here to literally shed 
light about why fear around sun 

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exposure may be misplaced, how 
chemical sunscreens may be doing

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more harm than good, and what 
true holistic skin health really

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looks like. 
Get ready for a conversation 

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that might challenge a lot of 
what you thought you knew about 

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the skin, sun, and health. 
Let's dig in, Doctor Te'o. 

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Thank you so much for being 
here. 

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I am so confused right now 
because you're a dermatologist 

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and we are outside in the middle
of a sunny pasture. 

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You're not wearing UPF clothing,
you're not wearing a hat. 

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You told me earlier you don't 
have sunscreen on. 

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I feel like I'm living in an 
alternate universe. 

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What is going on? 
Well, thank you for having me. 

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I'm really happy to be here and 
a lot of what we may talk about 

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may not be status quo for my 
specialty. 

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But I will tell you the evidence
based stuff and I will tell you 

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my opinions because I think 
there's a lot of misconception 

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in my field. 
You're right, I'm not wearing 

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UPF clothing and I am not 
wearing sunscreen right now, am 

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I? 
In midday, bright sunlight 

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directly overhead, Not that 
much, right? 

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And we bring up a bunch of 
things. 

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And what you're touching upon is
the sun. 

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And should we fear it or should 
we embrace it? 

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And I think, I think we should 
do both. 

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And why I bring that up is, like
with everything in life, too 

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much of a good thing can be a 
bad thing. 

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But the sun for the majority of 
what we use it for and our 

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well-being both physically and 
mentally is a good thing. 

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I think me being a little bit 
more olive skin and a little bit

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more baseline tan, I know my 
skin's risk, right? 

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I know how much sun my skin can 
tolerate before it burns. 

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So I am fine and comfortable as 
both a dermatologist and a skin 

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cancer surgeon to be outside 
unprotected before I hit that 

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threshold. 
So do I think I need UPF 

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clothing? 
Maybe. 

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Do I think I need it right now? 
No. 

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Do I think I need sunscreen 
right now? 

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No. 
But I will make that decision 

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based on my own personal skin 
health and my own understanding 

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of its benefits. 
I love everything you just said 

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and I just heard a lot of common
sense, but that unfortunately 

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doesn't seem to be the norm in 
in the field of dermatology. 

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What do your colleagues say? 
How do they react when you make 

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a statement like that, which 
feels very, like I said, common 

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sense to I think most people, 
but would seem to be blasphemous

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among the field of dermatology? 
Well, I'll tell you it's 

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controversial, but you have to 
look at evidence and you know, 

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I, I trained in some really 
amazing institutions and 

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evidence based medicine is what 
I practice in my practice and 

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what I've been taught to provide
patients. 

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We know from just a skin cancer 
risk that there is an entire 

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subset of skin cancers that are 
not related to the sun. 

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In fact, our most life 
threatening skin cancers, 

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particularly in younger 
patients, don't have what we 

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call AUV signature or UV 
mutation signature. 

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So this misconception of you 
have to fear the sign you got to

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protect yourself from from birth
to adulthood and beyond, I think

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is overkill. 
I think it's been overdone. 

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Now, why do we do that? 
Why do we as dermatologists make

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a big stink about the sun? 
Because I can't control your 

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genetic predisposition. 
So I can't control what your 

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family's genetic pool has 
provided you. 

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So what I can control is 
environmental injury or insults 

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that I can protect against. 
So my goal as a dermatologist 

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and both as a skin cancer 
surgeon is to keep you safe, 

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keep your skin safe and keep you
away from things that can kill 

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you from a skin cancer 
standpoint. 

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But I think the sun provides a 
lot of benefits that we tend to 

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ignore. 
And in fact, in fearing the sun,

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it doesn't reduce the likelihood
of dying from a certain skin 

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cancers. 
So I don't think we should fear 

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it. 
I think we should respect it 

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because, you know, try to sit 
outside for a week in the sun 

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and you'll burn, right? 
And the sunburns, never a good 

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thing. 
It's your skin dying from excess

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UV exposure. 
But I think sunlight makes us 

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feel better. 
It provides some benefits. 

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Vitamin D synthesis, it actually
modulates our skin's immune 

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system. 
We'll go into that in a little 

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bit, but there's a lot of things
the sun provides. 

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I go out every single day. 
I get 20 or 30 minutes every 

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single day, whether it's in the 
morning or in the afternoon 

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playing with my kids, and I feel
completely fine telling my 

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patients to do the same. 
So skin cancer is the number one

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cancer in the United States. 
But here's where it gets 

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confusing. 
We've been told for decades to 

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slather on sunscreen every 
single day, but the rates of 

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skin cancer continue to rise. 
Why is that? 

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So there's a few important 
factors. 

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There's some variables we've got
to take into consideration. 

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So skin cancer is the number one
cancer in the world, and in the 

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United States, one in four 
Americans will develop it. 

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Well. 
Interestingly, the most common 

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causes of skin cancer Death are 
not preventable from sun 

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protection. 
So Melanoma historically has 

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been our deadliest form of skin 
cancer and it's been. 

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It's the number 2 cause of 
cancer death in young women ages

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like 25 to 35. 
Those skin cancers tend to arise

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from mutations in our skin's 
genetics that we can't control 

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for. 
What is important to know is 

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that the sun will contribute too
much UV exposure will contribute

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to certain garden variety skin 
cancers that may or may not play

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a significant role in your 
longevity in your well-being. 

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But surely we don't want those 
and. 

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What would you consider a garden
variety skin cancer? 

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Yeah. 
So things like early squamous 

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cell carcinomas in elderly 
patients, certain early basal 

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cell carcinomas. 
And interestingly enough, 

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there's been several really big 
sunscreen studies, a large one 

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in 1999. 
We, it was like our gold 

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standard published in The Lancet
that looked at really strict sun

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protection with sunscreen versus
no sun protection with 

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sunscreen. 
And the incidence of basal cell 

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carcinomas, which is our most 
common skin cancer didn't 

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change. 
And in fact, although there was 

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a slight decrease in certain 
squamous cell of the Melanoma, 

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there was no change in Melanoma 
specific deaths. 

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So we've become a sun fear 
mongering society. 

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I think it's I think its 
intentions were originally good 

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to keep people protected, but 
we've gone kind of way out the 

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deep end and I think kind of 
coming back to normal common 

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sense is much is a much better 
idea. 

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Can you give a breakdown of the 
different types of skin cancers 

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and which ones are sun related 
and which ones are not? 

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Totally. 
So there's a lot of forms, but 

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the three big ones we talked 
about, which is the predominant 

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forms in the US and the world 
are Melanoma. 

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Most deadly. 
Exactly. 

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OR historically has been the 
most deadly squamous cell 

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carcinoma and basal cell 
carcinoma, and these make up 

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essentially 90% to 99% of our 
skin cancers. 

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Melanoma historically was our 
deadliest form of skin cancer. 

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A lot has changed in the last 
five years. 

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It's no longer a death sentence.
You know, famously our former 

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president Jimmy Carter had it in
his brain and now he's been 

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alive. 
We've saved him for from dying 

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from Melanoma for with, with 
certain medications. 

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But it's the one we take the 
most serious because of its 

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ability to spread throughout the
body. 

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What people don't understand is 
that the vast majority of life 

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threatening melanomas, 
particularly in young patients, 

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are not sun driven. 
They occur in areas of sun, 

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Naive skin backs, abdomen, upper
legs, young men and women. 

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In fact, it's the second most 
common cause of death in young 

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women. 
But those melanomas don't have 

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AUV signature. 
So we make this big stink about 

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avoid the sun, avoid the sun. 
But of our most lethal form of 

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skin cancer, it makes an 
insignificant difference. 

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Now, this doesn't mean go 
outside and burn all the time, 

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Doc said. 
Doctor Teo said go do whatever. 

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But we have to be pragmatic 
here, right? 

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Squamous cell carcinomas are 
second most common form. 

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And now, unfortunately, it's 
become the number one cause of 

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cancer death, skin cancer death 
in the US that tends to be a 

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little bit more linear in terms 
of chronic excess sun damage. 

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We see farmers, coal miners, 
people who live at the beach, 

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you know, deserts with aged, 
wrinkly, rough skin. 

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Over time those developed the 
what I call garden variety skin 

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cancers. 
Interestingly, squamous cells 

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that go on to to kill patients 
don't have AUV signature. 

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The majority of them don't have 
the UV signature that we see in 

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sun damaged skin. 
So it can cause or it's it can 

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be related to squamous cell 
cancer, but not the most deadly.

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Yeah. 
And we're just understanding 

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this interplay between sun, our 
immune system, the skin cancer 

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biology. 
There's a really cool study that

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came out several years ago that 
looked at cosmetic surgery 

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patients and they took when we 
did eyelid lifts. 

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When we do an eyelid lift, we 
normally discard the extra loose

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skin that we take out. 
Well, we studied the genetics of

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those of that skin and we saw 
the same mutations in the skin 

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that we see in skin cancers. 
But those eyelid skins were 

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normal. 
They didn't have any cancers. 

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So we're just now understanding,
well, what does this all mean? 

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What this means is 1. 
There's a lot, lot more to it 

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than just you get sun, you're 
going to get skin cancer, which 

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is why I don't want people to 
fear the sun. 

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What I want them to understand 
is if you start to burn all the 

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time and too much of it, well, 
you're not doing your skin a 

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favor. 
The other important thing is to 

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understand our immune system and
how it plays a role in 

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protecting us. 
We know that as our immune 

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system gets weaker, skin cancers
increase. 

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In fact, patients who have 
autoimmune illnesses, patients 

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who have are on medications to 
weaken their immune system and 

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older patients have the highest 
risk of skin cancer regardless 

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of sun exposure. 
Just because their immune 

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function isn't where it should. 
Be the immune systems are the 

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police of our body. 
So things grow and our immune 

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system takes care of it. 
As that weekends things like 

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weeds grow that we can't control
for and they they become a 

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problem. 
And as you're talking about 

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this, I'm thinking about vitamin
D. 

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The sun is probably the best 
source of vitamin DI mean people

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can supplement as well. 
But perhaps the best natural 

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source of vitamin D is from the 
sun, which plays such a critical

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role in immune function, which 
protects US against skin cancer.

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So how does vitamin D factor 
into the equation? 

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Totally. 
And before I touch into that, I 

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forgot to mention the most 
common form of skin cancer, 

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which is basal cell carcinoma. 
And that one doesn't have the 

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ability to hurt you in terms of 
a threat to your life. 

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It doesn't have the ability to 
spread inside the body, but it 

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is functionally or cosmetically 
destructive. 

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That is even less understood 
because in all of our sunscreen 

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studies, and we touched about 
this earlier, but patients who 

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00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:00,800
used diligent sunscreen versus 
those who didn't, there was no 

230
00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:04,040
significant difference between 
the rates of basal cell 

231
00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,240
carcinoma formation. 
So we're still scratching our 

232
00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,480
head saying what the heck is 
what's the player here? 

233
00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,360
Yeah. 
Is it like another ray that 

234
00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:13,200
sunscreen doesn't protect? 
Again, it's it's. 

235
00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,480
Family history, genetic 
predisposition, immune 

236
00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,240
dysfunction, too much UV 
altogether. 

237
00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,720
Yeah, if it was truly UV 
related, that rates of basal 

238
00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:26,040
cell in Equatorial countries 
should be higher than northern 

239
00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:27,880
European descent. 
And we don't see that. 

240
00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:30,800
That's where family and genetics
play a big role. 

241
00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,560
So you touched about vitamin D 
and vitamin D is a really 

242
00:13:33,560 --> 00:13:36,880
interesting vitamin, which is a 
fat soluble vitamin that's been 

243
00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:41,040
studied almost at nauseam. 
Now about its effects on overall

244
00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:44,440
health, certain skin diseases, 
certain internal diseases, you 

245
00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:48,320
know, all sorts of things. 
And you're right, I agree with 

246
00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:50,040
you. 
Vitamin D, the best source in my

247
00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:53,160
opinion is skin is getting it 
from the skin synthesized 

248
00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,360
naturally. 
But my my medical counterparts 

249
00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:59,720
will argue that we've looked at 
patients in heavy sun exposed 

250
00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:03,600
areas, surfers, people in 
Ecuador, Panama, Hawaii, 

251
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,320
Colombia and we found that they 
are vitamin D deficiency as 

252
00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,920
well. 
My argument to that is I don't 

253
00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:15,120
think our current testing models
represent biologic activity. 

254
00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,640
I think just because a level is 
beyond a certain marker doesn't 

255
00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:24,040
suggest whether even that that 
messenger or that chemical is 

256
00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:27,200
doing its job or not. 
It can't be that everybody in 

257
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:28,800
the world is vitamin D 
deficiency. 

258
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,120
That's silly. 
And I also don't like 

259
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:36,080
supplementation from a vitamin D
perspective for several reasons.

260
00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,000
I see a lot of vitamin D 
toxicity. 

261
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,120
Patients come in with a lot of 
problems from toxicity. 

262
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:42,360
Yeah. 
I thought that was a pretty rare

263
00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,240
thing, but. 
No, because everybody thinks 

264
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,440
that they can self medicate and 
if we're going to treat this as 

265
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,360
medicine, it should be treated 
in a controlled fashion. 

266
00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,280
I still think getting getting 
vitamin D from the sun is the 

267
00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:57,080
best source. 
What we do know is that 

268
00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,240
deficiency in vitamin D over 
long periods of time have been 

269
00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:05,760
shown to be a problem in 
autoimmune diseases, certain 

270
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,480
cancers. 
In fact, there was a really 

271
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:12,960
interesting study that looked at
women in Sweden who avoided the 

272
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:18,360
sun for fear of Melanoma, and 
they looked at those who avoided

273
00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:23,120
the sun and they had the same 
rate of cardiovascular mortality

274
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:27,320
as pack a day smokers. 
And the thought was that their 

275
00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:31,040
immune dysregulation, partly due
to low vitamin D, partly due to 

276
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,720
sun avoidance and probably other
habits that they were doing in 

277
00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:39,120
fear of Melanoma, resulted in 
the same immune dysregulation 

278
00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,120
that pack a day smokers had. 
Nobody talks about that study. 

279
00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,360
And it's it was over 20,000 
women in Sweden. 

280
00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:47,800
It was a very good study. 
Really big group. 

281
00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:50,880
Now, I'm not saying if you get a
bunch of sun you're never going 

282
00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:52,400
to have a heart attack, or if 
you get a bunch of sun, you're 

283
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,480
never going to get skin cancer. 
That's not the purpose of this. 

284
00:15:55,480 --> 00:16:00,520
But I think being outside 
produces some natural synthesis 

285
00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,560
of vitamin D that we need and a 
component of Wellness that I 

286
00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,360
can't measure in a test tube. 
You feel better outside. 

287
00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,480
When I was training on the East 
Coast, I had, you know what, 

288
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,360
what they call in medicine a 
seasonal affective disorder. 

289
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:16,360
I call it just being sad because
it was cloudy, you know, And 

290
00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:18,840
when the sun would come out, I 
would feel better and I would 

291
00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:20,960
perform better. 
I was better at my job. 

292
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:25,040
I was happier. 
And I don't have a test tube 

293
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,720
measurement for that, but I know
when I felt better I was 

294
00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:30,680
healthier. 
And it it it translates. 

295
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,760
Yeah, I don't think science has 
fully caught up with all of the 

296
00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:37,840
healing benefits, for sure, that
sunlight and that everything on 

297
00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:40,400
the earth has to offer yet. 
But like you said, it's 

298
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,880
something that we can all feel 
and that we've all experienced 

299
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,160
when we're outside, when we get 
natural sunlight, not too much, 

300
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,600
but the right amount, it feels 
really good. 

301
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:49,880
You can't deny that. 
I agree. 

302
00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,840
I remember in like the 90s and 
early 2000s when I grew up, 

303
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:57,600
there was a lot of talk about 
how the ozone layer is 

304
00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,560
diminishing and therefore we all
need to be more vigilant about 

305
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:06,280
sunscreen use. 
How much of that was real and 

306
00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:10,560
how much of it was just 
marketing for us to start using 

307
00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:14,240
more sunscreen as a society? 
So the depletion of the ozone 

308
00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:18,880
layer was real for certain, and 
it did provide the ability of 

309
00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:24,160
certain rays of sun, 
particularly X-rays, gamma rays,

310
00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:29,400
UVAB&C to penetrate. 
However, common sunscreens only 

311
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:33,600
protect for UVB and UVA. 
All the other stuff that got 

312
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,080
through the holes in the ozone, 
we're not blocked by the common 

313
00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:41,040
sunscreens we use anyway. 
So if we were to think, you 

314
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,880
know, there's a hole in the 
ozone, which means there's some 

315
00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:47,760
mutagenic rays coming through, 
what are other ways we can take 

316
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,240
protection? 
And I tend to say shade, 

317
00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,720
shelter, supplement, sunscreen, 
in that order. 

318
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:55,760
So the ozone's changing now for 
the better. 

319
00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,200
People have gotten smarter about
the stuff we're doing to the 

320
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,000
environment, and we're allowing 
the Earth to rebuild. 

321
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:03,640
The ozone layer that was 
depleted is closing. 

322
00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:06,920
That still doesn't mean that we 
shouldn't take some form of 

323
00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:08,640
protection. 
But the sunscreens we put on 

324
00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:10,960
barely blocked UVB back in the 
90s. 

325
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,520
So it didn't even do anything 
for the stuff that was getting 

326
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,200
through to begin with. 
And how would you say sunscreens

327
00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:21,360
work now to prevent both UVA and
UVB adequately? 

328
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,800
Something such a controversial 
topic and I recommend it for my 

329
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,440
patients. 
I think common sense things are 

330
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,880
if you have a reason to shield 
yourself from too much UV 

331
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,120
exposure and I don't like to 
like to use the term sun. 

332
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:38,720
I don't even think it's sun. 
It should be against 

333
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:44,000
specifically UV, right? 
I like the old school zinc and 

334
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,680
titanium based sunscreens. 
The stuff in the 1980s and 1990s

335
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:51,320
that you saw the lifeguard with 
the white nose at the beach or 

336
00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:54,240
at the pool. 
Those are time tested. 

337
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,960
They're the broadest spectrum. 
They cover UVA and UVB very 

338
00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,840
adequately, and they're safe. 
For all intents and purposes. 

339
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:07,680
What's happened in the last 
20-30 years is the Cosmos utical

340
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:13,800
industry has found that the old 
sunscreens had a chalkier feel, 

341
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:17,240
so people wouldn't be able to 
put it on under their makeup 

342
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,600
very comfortably without 
residue, greediness of their 

343
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,240
skin or this kind of pasty 
feeling that they didn't like. 

344
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:28,320
So out came the chemical 
sunscreens as a need or desire 

345
00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,160
to have something that felt more
elegant on their skin, in which 

346
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,880
you can cover with makeup. 
The problem is that the chemical

347
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,040
sunscreens in reality have a 
whole slew of questionable 

348
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,200
concerns. 
And I'm in the camp that there 

349
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,840
are some problems, some 
significant problems with the 

350
00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:46,640
chemical sunscreens available in
the US. 

351
00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:49,400
Let's talk about that. 
What are some of the biggest 

352
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:55,160
issues with chemical sunscreens?
So one thing people don't know 

353
00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,040
or understand is actually how 
chemical sunscreens work. 

354
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:02,240
So chemical sunscreens work by 
absorbing UV light. 

355
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,480
Undergoing A mutation or a 
change, a chemical reaction in 

356
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,720
your skin and releasing that 
chemical reaction energy as 

357
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,200
heat. 
So they're actively undergoing a

358
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,920
chemical reaction on your skin. 
The problem with that is these 

359
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:22,080
are chemicals we are putting on 
our skin that were made or 

360
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:26,400
synthesized in a lab. 
And we didn't know at the time 

361
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,760
when these products were being 
developed in the late 90s and 

362
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,320
2000s what their breakdown 
products meant. 

363
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:37,800
We just knew that the active 
ingredient would absorb UVA and 

364
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:41,160
B, undergo a shift, release that
energy as heat. 

365
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,920
But the degradation product we 
found are actually carcinogens 

366
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,000
in a lot of the chemical 
sunscreens. 

367
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,320
There's some notorious ones that
have been banned in Europe and 

368
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,320
Australia because of how 
carcinogenic their metabolites 

369
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,440
are. 
We still have them in the US, 

370
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,120
which is a big problem. 
And then the other thing that we

371
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,480
didn't know, or maybe we didn't 
know and we didn't talk about 

372
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,920
it, I'm not sure, is that a lot 
of these chemical sunscreens are

373
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:12,040
organic phenol derivatives. 
So they're molecules that mimic 

374
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,840
the structure and shape of our 
natural hormone chemical 

375
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:20,440
messaging signals in our body. 
So one problem with sunscreens 

376
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:24,560
is we tell patients, or at least
collectively as dermatologists, 

377
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:29,600
we tell patients, put the stuff 
on your skin from six months old

378
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,120
to 80 years old. 
We're talking decades of 

379
00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:36,760
application. 
Any common sense you would 

380
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,760
think, wait a second. 
I'm putting something on every 

381
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,880
single day of every single week 
of every single month of every 

382
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:45,760
single year, compounded over 
years. 

383
00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:47,760
Is this stuff getting in my 
system? 

384
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,040
Am I absorbing this? 
Am I inhaling this? 

385
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,800
Like, what does this mean? 
And only now are we finding out 

386
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,280
after 20 or 30 years of data. 
Like, wait a second, this can 

387
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,680
interfere interfere with natural
hormone messaging signals. 

388
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,880
They mimic the same molecules in
our body, or at least some of 

389
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,400
them do, and they're not as 
inert as we think. 

390
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,480
Actually, a big study that came 
out in Jam a couple years ago 

391
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:15,000
showed that one application of a
chemical sunscreen on our skin 

392
00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:20,400
was detected in a blood test at 
nearly 200 to 500 levels above 

393
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:21,960
what we considered safe and 
normal. 

394
00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:25,640
So only now are we figuring out,
wait a second, the stuff we said

395
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,120
in the 90s and 2000s that's 
great and became widely flooded 

396
00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:34,400
on the market is probably not as
safe and harmless as we thought.

397
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:35,720
Yeah. 
And if you think about, I mean, 

398
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,440
that's just one application. 
If you think about every 

399
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:42,160
application over the course of 
one day in the sun and then a 

400
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,040
week in the sun, a lifetime, I 
mean. 

401
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:48,080
Our babies, our kids, elderly 
patients, patients with, you 

402
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,000
know, different types of skin 
that, you know, maybe they have 

403
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,680
more sensitive absorb. 
You know, kids have a skin type 

404
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:58,080
that's behaves more like mucous 
membranes, especially when 

405
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,840
they're young, especially before
a year or six months. 

406
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,120
They absorb everything. 
You know, we're telling people 

407
00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:04,600
to put this stuff on every 
single day. 

408
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,560
And you know, that brings up a 
really important fact that 

409
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,680
people often overlook. 
The American Academy of 

410
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,880
Dermatology and the American 
Academy of Pediatrics recommends

411
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:19,440
against using chemical 
sunscreens for for infants 6 

412
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,000
months and younger. 
Why? 

413
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,320
Because we know that stuff is 
absorbed. 

414
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,240
We know those chemicals may not 
be safe, and it's been like that

415
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,400
for years, but nobody talks 
about it. 

416
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,680
So you assume if we knew 
something was wrong or if we 

417
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,280
knew something was questionable,
why are we telling everybody 

418
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:36,960
else to put it on? 
But not for babies. 

419
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,720
Right, right, right. 
Man, there's so much to unpack 

420
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,520
here. 
So, so these chemicals, a lot of

421
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:46,800
them are endocrine disruptors. 
They are actually causing a 

422
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:52,320
chemical reaction to happen on 
our skin which has carcinogenic 

423
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,720
or cancer causing byproducts. 
So is it safe to say that the 

424
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,360
products that we've been told to
use to protect ourselves from 

425
00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:04,160
skin cancer may actually be 
contributing to skin cancer? 

426
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,880
Maybe, maybe, I don't know if 
they're directly contributing to

427
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:14,200
skin cancer, but they may be 
contributing to other other 

428
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:18,600
cancers, lymphomas, leukemia, 
certain other issues that we're 

429
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,840
noticing. 
In fact, one of the most 

430
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,840
commonly available chemical 
sunscreens, octachrylene, 

431
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,480
undergoes a chemical reaction in
our skin. 

432
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,160
And the breakdown product is a 
product called benzophenone, 

433
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,760
well known carcinogen, like very
well documented in the 

434
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,560
literature. 
But for some reason we still 

435
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,520
have it in the United States. 
Now, am I saying avoid all 

436
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,720
sunscreens at all costs? 
No, of course not. 

437
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,960
You know, people burn, they get 
blistering sunburns. 

438
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:47,640
We know the consequences of 
that. 

439
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:52,240
But if you were to ask me, 
there's a there's a group of 

440
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,080
sunscreens that doesn't really 
have any data suggesting it's 

441
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,240
harmful besides the fact that it
goes on your skin kind of 

442
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,040
chalky. 
And then there's a group of 

443
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,280
chemicals that have a bunch of 
publications, whether it's in 

444
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,360
lab studies, animal studies, or 
in humans that have questionable

445
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,480
properties. 
Which one would you pick? 

446
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,120
Yeah, it's a common sense thing.
Pick the safer 1. 

447
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,320
Right, which is the physical? 
Which is the physical zinc and 

448
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:16,440
mineral? 
Yeah, exactly. 

449
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,720
Zinc, titanium. 
In my practice, I don't 

450
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,160
recommend chemical sunscreens. 
That's my personal preference 

451
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,640
and opinion. 
If I'm going to have somebody 

452
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:29,680
apply sunscreen, it's because I,
as a physician, want to protect 

453
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,600
their skin. 
I treat it as a medicine. 

454
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,200
I don't treat it as makeup. 
I treat it as medicine. 

455
00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:36,840
Which it technically. 
Is it? 

456
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:38,840
Is the FDA regulates it as a 
drug? 

457
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,480
It is. 
It's an FDA defines sunscreen as

458
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:46,000
an over the counter drug, same 
as Tylenol, same as Advil. 

459
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:50,400
So if I'm going to treat it as 
such, I and maybe my patients 

460
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,320
don't think the same, but I 
don't really care if it's 

461
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,800
chalky, if it's doing its job 
and it's safe. 

462
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,320
I've done my job. 
Now, in my opinion, there are 

463
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,960
even better ways to protect your
skin than sunscreen. 

464
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,480
I probably put that as third or 
fourth best. 

465
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,880
I like shade and shelter. 
I like clothing. 

466
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,560
You know, there are, and those 
have never been question to 

467
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,160
cause any sort of chemical 
reaction on your skin unless 

468
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,640
you're like, I don't know, 
jumping in on that full of 

469
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,440
benzene with your clothes on. 
But those are, you know, you'll,

470
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,200
you will never burn in shade. 
It's literally impossible. 

471
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,560
You can sit at the beach for 30 
days in a row under shade and 

472
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,720
you'll do fine. 
Try sitting at the beach for 30 

473
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,840
days with sunscreen on. 
You will burn. 

474
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,200
So that's that's like my common 
sense approach to sun 

475
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,080
protection. 
I agree, I think about it in the

476
00:26:36,120 --> 00:26:39,080
same way. 
It's like finding shade, I think

477
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,800
is the best, the best thing to 
do if you had a long day in the 

478
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,400
sun and like you're, you can 
feel it, you know, you can feel 

479
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,360
when it's been when it's a 
little too much and then finding

480
00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:52,560
shade or like wearing a hat, 
wearing clothing. 

481
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,040
What about what's the deal with 
UPF clothing? 

482
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,840
Is does that really protect you?
Because I have never burned 

483
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,800
under any clothing, garment, UPF
or not. 

484
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,920
Very good question. 
So part marketing, part 

485
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,480
marketing, part not. 
The defining features of what 

486
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:13,920
makes clothing a certain UPF 
number is the weave of the 

487
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,800
fabric and the material of the 
textile. 

488
00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:21,040
So some materials are more 
reflective of light sources, 

489
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,120
some materials are less 
reflective. 

490
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,920
So all clothing has some 
component of UV protection. 

491
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,960
You're right. 
I've never burned with, even AT 

492
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,960
shirt on, whereas my arms that 
were exposed have gotten 

493
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,560
sunburns before, or at least 
I've gotten a tan now. 

494
00:27:36,120 --> 00:27:40,960
Everybody's what I call minimal 
erythema dose or sun sensitivity

495
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:45,280
or UV sensitivity is different. 
Some patients are very sensitive

496
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,280
to UV. 
They may have skin conditions 

497
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:48,960
that make them very sensitive to
UV. 

498
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:53,800
Think of things like lupus or 
melasma, or you know, what we 

499
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,680
call spring eruption or 
polymorphic light eruption. 

500
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,200
Some people have a history of a 
lot of skin cancers that are sun

501
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,640
related, so they may need a 
little bit higher protection 

502
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:09,960
than say, you or I. 
But part of the UPF popularity 

503
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,440
is marketing, because all 
clothing will have some 

504
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,600
component of sun protection. 
Some of it is true. 

505
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,880
When you go up into the 50s 
range, really it's a much 

506
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,400
tighter weave of product and 
it's a textile that tends to be 

507
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,560
a lot more reflective than 
natural cotton. 

508
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:26,680
OK, interesting. 
Yeah. 

509
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:31,680
What about spray sunscreen? 
What is your take on spray 

510
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:32,640
sunscreen? 
That stuff. 

511
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:34,520
Me too. 
Take that stuff. 2 reasons. 

512
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,160
Every time I've had a sunburn as
a kid, it's been with spray 

513
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,280
sunscreens. 
Every time I've had an uneven, 

514
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,880
you know, tan or uneven burn, 
it's from spray sunscreens. 

515
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,320
And now we're finding out that 
the majority of the propellants 

516
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,240
that get the sunscreen product 
out or some sort of benzene 

517
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,800
derivative. 
So you're spraying this all over

518
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,120
your body, you're inhaling it 
every time you apply this. 

519
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,720
And we know obviously anything 
in the benzene family tends to 

520
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,920
be a carcinogen. 
We tend not to recommend this. 

521
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,000
If we're going to treat 
sunscreen as a medicine, then we

522
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,640
should make sure most of it, if 
not all of it, is safe. 

523
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,800
Now people will come back and 
say, well, the amount of benzene

524
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,880
is not a lot and the amount, but
we're treating this to diagnose,

525
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:16,840
treat or prevent something, 
right? 

526
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,600
People make the argument while 
you're getting more inhalational

527
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,920
benzene when you go pump gas. 
Possibly, though I don't agree 

528
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:25,920
all the time, but assuming 
that's. 

529
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,240
Especially with children. 100% 
they're not trying. 

530
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,480
To avoid it, yeah. 
Oh, they're not like holding 

531
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,360
their breath while their mom is 
100% covering them in this cloud

532
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,560
of benzene. 
Every day, yes, every day. 

533
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,760
And you're spraying it on areas 
where like if I'm at the like, 

534
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:41,680
let's say that argument's true, 
right? 

535
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,280
I'm not at the gas station 
sniffing the the nozzle that I 

536
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,400
put in my gas tank, right? 
But we're spraying this on their

537
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,040
face, shoulders back. 
So that's number one. 

538
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:55,200
Smell that stuff from like 20 
yards away 100% It is so 

539
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,000
offensive. 
It is like my #1 pet peeve 100% 

540
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,480
at the pool when all of I know 
right away I'm like OK, who's 

541
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:02,880
who's spraying the sun? 
The. 

542
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,600
Salizes and goes far, Yeah. 
So that's number one. 

543
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,520
The propellant, that's a huge 
problem #2 most of them are 

544
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,520
chemical sunscreens. 
Most of them are chemical 

545
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,400
sunscreens with a bad 
degradation product #3 the 

546
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,960
application, the amount you need
to apply to get the actual SPF 

547
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,240
number on. 
There is a shot glass worth. 

548
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,400
That's like the simple 
description. 

549
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,960
Nobody's ever spraying a shot 
glass worth of product on their 

550
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,280
body. 
They're maybe getting like a 

551
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,320
whiff of it, which is why they, 
you know, most patients burn 

552
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,760
with spray sunscreens. 
It's just it's become this 

553
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,840
marketing thing because it's 
easy to use and you can grab it 

554
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:40,600
and go and think you get some 
protection. 

555
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,800
Do you remember back when we 
were growing up? 

556
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:46,920
Because we're the same age, we 
figured this out before we 

557
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:48,240
started recording. 
A lot older. 

558
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,520
No, you don't. 
We're like, we're like within a 

559
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:52,160
month of each other. 
Unbelievable, unbelievable. 

560
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,000
But OK. 
When we were growing up, do you 

561
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,000
remember seeing those 
commercials for like the the 

562
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,640
purple tinted sunscreens? 
Yes. 

563
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,560
And you would like go to the 
beach and see like purple and 

564
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,720
blue kids running around. 
And I think they did this so 

565
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,520
that parents would know like 
when the sunscreen has worn off.

566
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:15,960
But now there's so much 
awareness about synthetic dyes 

567
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,440
and the negative effects of 
those. 100%. 

568
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,200
So I'm like, this is so crazy 
that this was a thing and that 

569
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,320
everyone just went with it and 
didn't question it. 

570
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,280
And it just goes to show that 
not everything that is sold to 

571
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:32,760
us is actually safe to use. 
What million percent? 

572
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,160
The intentions were good. 
They wanted their the intention 

573
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,600
was to make some sort of 
identifiable product where you 

574
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,360
can say, OK, my kids covered or 
not, and if it's wearing off, 

575
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,280
they need to reapply. 
The problem is the stuff we used

576
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,680
to do that was worse than the 
product or concept itself. 

577
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,400
You touch upon a really 
important thing, the original 

578
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,280
FDA manuscript. 
So the FDA control sunscreens 

579
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,800
the way they control medicines. 
We talked about that. 

580
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:03,480
It's an over the counter 
regulated drug. 

581
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,440
So the original manuscript came 
out in 1999 that defined the 

582
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:11,200
most commonly used acceptable 
chemicals to be used and defined

583
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,760
as sunblock or sunscreen in the 
US And the terminology changed a

584
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,280
little bit, but back then it 
used to be called sunblock. 

585
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,600
And in order for you to be 
determined to sunblock, you had 

586
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,000
to protect the skin against so 
much redness or burn. 

587
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:30,720
The FDA hadn't updated their 
manuscript until two years ago 

588
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,040
where they made a statement. 
They haven't even updated it 

589
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:39,120
yet, but they made a an update 
letter or an update statement 

590
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:43,320
looking and re examining after 
20 or 30 years worth of data 

591
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,400
whether those original chemicals
were safe. 

592
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:51,560
And 19 of those most readily 
used stuff that was originally 

593
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,000
deemed grace, generally 
recognized as safe and effective

594
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,920
are no longer deemed GRACE. 
So the stuff that we were 

595
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,600
readily accepting, you're on 
vacation, you pick it up from 

596
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,800
the convenience store in the 
hotel lobby or wherever or your 

597
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,800
your local pharmacy. 
The stuff that was widely 

598
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:12,400
accepted is now saying, the FDA 
itself is saying, I'm not sure 

599
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,360
this is just as safe as we 
thought it was. 

600
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,120
Let's look into it. 
In fact, they pulled a few 

601
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,720
things off the shelf, a few 
older chemical sunscreens 

602
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,800
because they provide no benefit 
and they had some consequence in

603
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,520
the studies looking at 
interference with health. 

604
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,720
But it's always, especially in 
the US, it's always 2 steps 

605
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:32,240
forward and then a half a step 
sideways or back, you know? 

606
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,360
It's like 10 years after 
something has been used by 

607
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,960
millions of people, everyone, 
they then realize that it isn't 

608
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:41,840
safe. 
And so they they've come out 

609
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,400
with this statement and they've 
pulled a few of these chemicals,

610
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,120
but many of them are still being
used. 

611
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:48,000
Yeah. 
Because there's. 

612
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,640
So lobbying in the United States
is really, really, really strong

613
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,560
and unfortunately everything is 
still a business. 

614
00:33:55,680 --> 00:34:00,120
So the big players that benefit 
widely from keeping certain 

615
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,600
things on market have a have 
deep pockets. 

616
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:08,360
So you can convince governing 
bodies to do or not do certain 

617
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,520
things based on whose financial 
interest it is, right. 

618
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,280
So a lot of these things that 
are a problem everywhere else in

619
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,719
the world, which have been 
pulled from many other 

620
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,719
countries, are still widely 
available here. 

621
00:34:20,159 --> 00:34:24,159
And in fact, there are certain 
chemical sunscreens available in

622
00:34:24,159 --> 00:34:28,440
places like Canada and Europe 
that are much safer, that don't 

623
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,800
have the degradation products. 
But we still can't get them in 

624
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:36,639
the USI still I've heard about. 
These these like new UVUV. 

625
00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:41,159
They're filters, Yeah, I still 
I'm skeptical. 

626
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,159
I like the old mineral, mind it 
from the. 

627
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,400
Earth. 
Pride and true because it's 

628
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,480
like. 
Blocker, might we possibly find 

629
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:49,880
out about those? 
I agree, yeah. 

630
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:54,440
Whereas physical blockers 
essentially function like 

631
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,840
clothing where they sit on the 
surface of the skin and they 

632
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,560
shield from UV. 
So if you're going to pick 

633
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:03,200
something, pick the old time 
tested, you know mine from the 

634
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,320
Earth ingredients. 
I'm glad you mentioned that. 

635
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:10,600
I feel like we have very similar
approaches to sun exposure, like

636
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,520
finding shade is important after
being in the sun for a long 

637
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:15,840
time. 
Like you said, you will never 

638
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,720
burn in the shade, wearing 
protective clothing, wearing 

639
00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:21,320
hats. 
But then for the times that I 

640
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,760
may be like in the water or just
in the sun for extended periods 

641
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:30,560
of times, I will opt for a 
physical barrier sunscreen. 

642
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:35,000
Non nano zinc and we actually 
are launching one soon, a 

643
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,240
sunscreen of our own. 
Amazing. 

644
00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:38,680
Congratulations. 
Thank you. 

645
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,120
Thank you for something that's 
been in the works for so long. 

646
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:42,440
Amazing. 
Because like we talked about, 

647
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,600
it's considered a drug by the 
FDA. 

648
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,000
So the processes for testing and
whatnot totally take forever. 

649
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:52,480
But yeah, you wanna take a look?
That's awesome, love the 

650
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:53,880
packaging. 
Thanks. 

651
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,520
Let's see. 
So right off the bat, it has a 

652
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:01,560
really high zinc concentration, 
which I like because oftentimes 

653
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:05,880
we don't get enough sunscreen 
product on our skin or active 

654
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,200
ingredient on our skin. 
So the lower concentrations of 

655
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,080
minerals tend to not be as 
protective as the label 

656
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,520
suggests. 
I love the inactives. 

657
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:17,640
There's very few of them. 
All of these my kids can 

658
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,880
pronounce. 
I'm just going to feel this. 

659
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:24,400
Yeah, it has a bit of a white 
cast, but not quite as bad as a 

660
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,400
lot of other zinc based 
sunscreens. 

661
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:30,480
This is awesome. 
Particle size is really uniform,

662
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,520
the zinc particle size. 
So it's still non nano, it'll 

663
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,320
still sit on the surface of the 
skin, but the white cast is I. 

664
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:40,440
Love the feel, love the smell. 
I would put this on my kids. 

665
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,520
Yay for sure. 
Great product. 

666
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,600
Yeah, yeah, totally awesome. 
Congratulations. 

667
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:46,120
Thank you. 
Thanks so much. 

668
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,040
I think it's nice to go back to 
fundamentals. 

669
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,840
I love the that's probably the 
highest concentration of zinc 

670
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,240
I've seen in a very long time. 
It's great. 

671
00:36:54,240 --> 00:36:56,360
The inactives are very 
straightforward. 

672
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,280
They're biologic, they're 
organic. 

673
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,360
I would I would put this on my 
family for sure. 

674
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:02,960
Amazing. 
Yeah, let's transition to 

675
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:04,880
internal sun protection. 
Sure. 

676
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,680
Are there certain nutrients or 
foods that people should be 

677
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,640
aware of in terms of giving your
body the best defense possible 

678
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,360
from an internal perspective? 
Yeah, I love that. 

679
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:21,160
So something that's not commonly
known about is things that you 

680
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,200
can consume that will protect 
your skin from the inside out. 

681
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,440
Whereas in many other countries,
particularly in South America, 

682
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,880
this is a well known phenomenon.
There's several ingredients. 

683
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,920
There's actually a plant that I 
love and recommend for all my 

684
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,920
patients called polypodium, and 
it's from a Fern in the Amazon 

685
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:44,800
rainforest. 
And this Fern was found when we 

686
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,920
studied a group of indigenous 
people in the Amazon that would 

687
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,320
consume this Fern before they 
went out on fishing expeditions 

688
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,120
on the Amazon. 
And if they knew they were going

689
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,040
to be out for, you know, several
days, they would take this Fern 

690
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,840
and they would eat it, and it 
would protect them from burning.

691
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,840
So it's essentially like an 
internal sunscreen or an 

692
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,080
internal sunshield. 
So that was identified to be 

693
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,960
polypodium. 
And I recommend that literally 

694
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,320
for everyone, for anybody who 
wants another form of sun 

695
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,200
protection, if you're going to 
be outside, if you have sun 

696
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,600
sensitive skin conditions. 
I know I see a lot of young 

697
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,360
women with melasma. 
We used to call that the mask of

698
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,640
pregnancy. 
And it's this discoloration 

699
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:25,920
that's so sensitive to sunlight.
It's extremely sensitive to not 

700
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:30,440
only UV, but also visible light.
And sunscreens don't do a great 

701
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,080
job shielding the visible 
component of light, whereas 

702
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,160
polypodium does. 
So there's a lot of things that 

703
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:40,400
we can consume or take orally 
that will actually improve the 

704
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,480
Wellness and and vitality of our
skin. 

705
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:45,600
And there's a lot of science 
behind this. 

706
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:47,840
It's not just assumption or 
opinion. 

707
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,600
There's a lot of published data 
behind all of these ingredients.

708
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,560
I help formulate a product 
called Sunpowder, which is what 

709
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:59,080
I recommend for my patients. 
It's it's a daily drinkable skin

710
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:00,760
supplement. 
It's the first of its kind in 

711
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,320
the market that has all of these
ingredients at the clinical dose

712
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,160
needed where you just mix into 
water and drink once a day. 

713
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,640
And the premise behind this is 
if we're doing stuff to our skin

714
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,240
from the outside, if we're 
protecting it for shielding it 

715
00:39:13,240 --> 00:39:15,640
and sheltering it, at least 
let's give it a fighting chance 

716
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:19,600
from the inside with evidence 
based ingredients to help reduce

717
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:24,040
sun damage, sunburn risk, skin 
cancer risk and premature aging.

718
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,720
Yeah, absolutely. 
It's creating resiliency from 

719
00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:28,960
the inside out. 
Yeah, we actually have a 

720
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:32,120
clinical trial that I am 
conducting now at our practice 

721
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,040
that looks at patients who 
consume this before and after UV

722
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,120
exposure. 
So it's not just, you know, 

723
00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:40,200
there's good evidence and 
science behind it. 

724
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,400
It's not like a marketing 
gimmick or ploy, but there's 

725
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,200
many things that we can learn 
from other realms, the Wellness 

726
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,480
realm, you know, nutrition, 
other societies. 

727
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,200
We found polypodium in the 
Amazon. 

728
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:52,640
You know that's. 
Fascinating. 

729
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:57,240
How close to the sun exposure 
did they consume this to get the

730
00:39:57,240 --> 00:39:58,920
protection? 
So if you know you're going to 

731
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,840
be out for a long period of time
or like let's say you're going 

732
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:06,080
on vacation for a week, we found
that it builds up tolerance when

733
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,960
take it a week before. 
But say you don't know and 

734
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:13,040
you're going to be out hiking 2 
hours before you can consume 

735
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:14,680
this, and I'll give you some sun
protection. 

736
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,720
It double S the time that you 
can spend outside before your 

737
00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:19,040
skin burns. 
Wow. 

738
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:20,760
It's not. 
You've tested this. 

739
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:22,160
Oh, yeah. 
There's a lot of data. 

740
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:23,600
There's ten years worth of data 
behind. 

741
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,200
Yeah, it's it's awesome. 
And it's not a replacement for 

742
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,080
sunscreen. 
Sunscreen has its role in 

743
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:30,960
protecting your skin from the 
outside in. 

744
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,680
Shade and shelter protect your 
skin from the outside in. 

745
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,080
But this is a way to increase 
your skin's resilience to UV 

746
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:39,000
exposure. 
I remember seeing something like

747
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:40,800
that on the website. 
There was some bold claim. 

748
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,080
I think that was it. 
Yeah, it increased double S the 

749
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:44,360
amount of time. 
Yeah, double s the amount of 

750
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,840
time, yeah, that's why. 
And especially if you, if you 

751
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,800
know you're going to have like a
event coming up or a trip or a 

752
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,480
hiking, you know, or a fishing 
trip or what have you. 

753
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,280
Yeah. 
Can starting in a week before 

754
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,640
increases your skin's UV 
tolerance even more. 

755
00:40:57,880 --> 00:40:58,520
Wow. 
Yeah, it's. 

756
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,600
I love that it has astaxanthin. 
Yeah, that's an ingredient we 

757
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:05,040
use in a lot of our topical skin
care products and our plumping 

758
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:09,200
serum, our Antioxidant bomb. 
It's just an amazing antioxidant

759
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:10,840
for the skin. 
And it's not well known in the 

760
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,720
skin care space. 
So for some reason it's it's 

761
00:41:13,720 --> 00:41:16,920
like overlooked but well known 
more in the Wellness, health, 

762
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:20,360
nutrition category. 
There's several really good 

763
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:24,360
studies that looked at actual 
objective changes in skin health

764
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:28,800
and appearance with astaxanthin 
dosing anywhere from 2 to 12 

765
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,040
milligrams and you saw 
improvement in tone, texture, 

766
00:41:32,240 --> 00:41:35,440
elasticity, firmness and 
collagen production. 

767
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:37,440
By taking it internally. 
By taking it internally. 

768
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:39,560
So we added a full clinical dose
of that. 

769
00:41:39,720 --> 00:41:41,160
Amazing. 
It's it's an amazing 

770
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:42,560
antioxidant. 
Nobody talks. 

771
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,880
About right, right. 
And we have it here, actually, 

772
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:46,000
yeah. 
Let me try it. 

773
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:47,200
Cheers. 
Cheers. 

774
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,200
Sorry I didn't make a liver 
smoothie for you next time. 

775
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,880
Next time. 
This is Yeah, this is our first 

776
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:54,920
year of flavor. 
Yeah. 

777
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,000
I figured if my kids will like 
it and anybody can like it. 

778
00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:58,720
Yeah. 
Thanks. 

779
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,000
So. 
If someone's taking taking like 

780
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:05,200
a multivitamin will anything, 
well, is it OK to take this at 

781
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,440
the same time? 
So everything is water soluble. 

782
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:13,400
Everything is at the right 
clinical dose but doesn't 

783
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,320
interact with any medications 
that we know of. 

784
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:19,160
There's also bio active collagen
in there, there's hyaluronic 

785
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:21,600
acid in there, vitamin C, 
glutathione, a few other 

786
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,160
goodies, but doesn't interact 
with anything you take. 

787
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,400
What about foods to avoid? 
Is there anything that you would

788
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:32,320
recommend people not consume if 
they want to increase their 

789
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,520
resilience to the sun on an 
internal level? 

790
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:40,480
So that's, that's a tough 
question because we haven't 

791
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:44,960
identified foods yet that will 
necessarily increase your 

792
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,480
susceptibility to sunburns or 
sun damage. 

793
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:53,280
But we do know foods that will 
weaken your skin's immune system

794
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,400
and make your skin health worse.
And what do I mean by this? 

795
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,640
So we've known for many, many 
years, and I practice this in my

796
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:05,160
practice, that certain diets, 
certain foods will improve skin 

797
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,040
disease. 
We can improve eczema, we can 

798
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,320
improve psoriasis, we can 
improve acne. 

799
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,840
These are quintessential skin 
problems with diet. 

800
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:17,280
Will they cure them? 
Not necessarily per SE, but will

801
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,080
they improve them? 
By far. 

802
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:21,040
I've never heard a dermatologist
say that. 

803
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,200
Oh, it's really. 
And I struggled with acne in 

804
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,280
junior high high school. 
I remember point blank asking my

805
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,400
dermatologist, is there anything
I can change about my diet or 

806
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:34,680
lifestyle that will help this? 
And she said no, it is purely 

807
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:36,240
genetic. 
There's nothing you can do. 

808
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,720
Just keep taking these 
antibiotics on and off. 

809
00:43:38,720 --> 00:43:40,480
No, no. 
For years and years and years 

810
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:42,360
and putting these creams on your
face. 

811
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:47,840
No, SO I'm sorry about that 
because we we do know and that 

812
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,960
evidence has gotten better and 
better over the last several 

813
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,760
years. 
And fortunately I trained up at 

814
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,720
Stanford, they were very forward
thinking and not just medicine, 

815
00:43:56,720 --> 00:44:00,640
but also identifying other 
causes that can improve skin 

816
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:02,560
health. 
That's not just give a drug. 

817
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:04,960
So we learned this during 
training and there was great 

818
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,200
evidence behind it as we as we 
got better in understanding skin

819
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,360
disease. 
But we know for certain high 

820
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:18,640
glycemic index foods, high 
inflammatory foods and non fat 

821
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,880
or skim dairy products will 
worsen skin disease. 

822
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:23,600
Now everybody's scratching their
head. 

823
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,240
They've heard dairy or the 
controversy behind dairy. 

824
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:31,240
But a really nice study came out
of a very good university in in 

825
00:44:31,240 --> 00:44:36,360
Pittsburgh that showed that 
actually it's not dairy itself, 

826
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:42,120
but it's the emulsifiers that we
put in non fat or skim dairy 

827
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:46,120
products to give it the mouth 
feel of full fat that triggers 

828
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:50,040
the worsening of acne. 
Whole fat, whole whole milk 

829
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:53,720
dairy products didn't. 
Non fat and skim dairy products 

830
00:44:53,720 --> 00:44:55,520
did. 
And you can replicate this in 

831
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:57,800
clinic. 
You can tell patients I wouldn't

832
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,320
recommend to do this but you can
tell patients if you go on a non

833
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:03,160
fat dairy product watch your 
skin will get worse and they do.

834
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:06,120
But when they go on a full fat, 
or what you know my parents call

835
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:10,960
is natural or normal, they go on
a full fat dairy diet, their 

836
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,520
skin disease improves. 
Interesting. 

837
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:15,040
Yeah. 
Do you do you think there's a 

838
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:20,160
difference even in the category 
of whole fat between raw versus 

839
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,400
pasteurized? 
Good question. 

840
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,360
I don't know if there's evidence
to it yet. 

841
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:31,160
I think I would presume the live
version would tend to be more 

842
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:34,560
beneficial and we're that's 
touching upon a very interesting

843
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:37,480
topic and that's the gut 
microbiome, the skin microbiome,

844
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:39,440
the immune homeostasis between 
them. 

845
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:43,640
But I would presume that the raw
version would be a little bit 

846
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:48,040
better. 
Now, there's an asterisk to that

847
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:52,760
because pasteurization has been 
a problem, but it's also been a 

848
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:58,640
benefit in, in many settings 
across the world, the quality of

849
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,600
food and food services is not 
uniform. 

850
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:07,600
So for for me to say, you know, 
raw is great, maybe great in 

851
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:11,840
places where we have good, you 
know, farming quality, good 

852
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:15,560
animal hygiene, you know, good 
techniques to get raw dairy 

853
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:19,200
products. 
Perhaps in other parts of the 

854
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:22,400
country or other parts of the 
world, the quality is not the 

855
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:23,920
same. 
That's where some illnesses come

856
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:26,480
into play. 
But I don't know yet. 

857
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:28,840
I think give it 10 years. 
And if somebody studies that, I 

858
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,040
would bet that the raw version 
would be better than the 

859
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:34,600
pasteurized version. 
But for sure we know high 

860
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:36,120
glycemic index. 
What does that mean? 

861
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:38,760
Sugary foods? 
You know, my mom always told me 

862
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:40,440
don't eat that candy. 
And I was like, as a kid, I'm 

863
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:41,400
like, mom, what are you talking 
about? 

864
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,360
And I'm like, don't eat that 
candy to my very own kid because

865
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:47,240
we know not only does it it's 
not good for you, but you 

866
00:46:47,240 --> 00:46:49,200
actually see skin disease get 
worse. 

867
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:51,960
And the other thing is we talked
about inflammatory foods. 

868
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:56,560
So what are inflammatory foods 
like what this definition of 

869
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:58,960
anti-inflammatory versus 
inflammatory? 

870
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,800
Inflammatory foods tend to be 
ultra processed, tend to be 

871
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:07,200
heavy processed grain based 
diets and they tend to be full 

872
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:11,760
of oils or fats that were that 
are not what I call biologic, 

873
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:15,320
meaning seed oil, heavy 
preservative heavy foods. 

874
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,960
These tend to be more 
inflammatory. 

875
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:23,560
What and why inflammatory foods 
are a problem is, and we have to

876
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:28,160
understand our gut is a whole 
other ecosystem that we're just 

877
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:31,320
starting to understand. 
You know, and there's amazing 

878
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:33,640
labs that are just looking at 
what the gut does. 

879
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:37,840
And the gut itself plays an 
incredible role in our skin 

880
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,000
health. 
And that's because the 

881
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:43,320
microorganisms that we have in 
our gut metabolize our food. 

882
00:47:43,720 --> 00:47:46,280
We consume our food and the 
nutrients are pulled by the 

883
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:48,880
microorganisms that reside 
naturally in our gut. 

884
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:52,920
Those microorganisms have 
preferences as what they can 

885
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,120
metabolize and what they cannot 
metabolize. 

886
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:59,320
So when you feed your body 
things that aren't meant to be 

887
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:03,440
digested regularly or that our 
ancestral bacteria can't digest 

888
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:08,360
naturally, the metabolic waste 
products that they produce tend 

889
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,680
to be inflammatory. 
They trigger an immune response 

890
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:14,680
that wouldn't be triggered. 
So we see that the first place 

891
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:18,280
we see that is in our skin. 
Psoriasis gets worse, eczema 

892
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:20,360
gets worse, your acne gets 
worse. 

893
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:22,040
And then you see it in other 
things too. 

894
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:26,640
You know, patients who have 
joint disease are arthritis, you

895
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:28,560
know, osteoarthritis, rheumatoid
arthritis. 

896
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:31,400
They'll say their joints hurt 
more when they have a pizza, 

897
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:36,280
beer and you know, donut diet as
opposed to animal proteins, 

898
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:38,560
fruits and vegetables. 
You know, farm to table style. 

899
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:41,760
Yeah, I love that. 
I mean, you just touched on so 

900
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:46,120
many important things like the 
skin, it's a part of our body. 

901
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:49,840
And it just makes sense that 
when these things show up, we 

902
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:54,200
should view them as warning 
signs 100% and opportunities to 

903
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:57,680
tune in and think, OK, what what
needs to be corrected here 

904
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:01,800
versus the more traditional 
Western model of just masking 

905
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,360
everything. 
And it's really refreshing to 

906
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:08,120
hear you say to say that as a 
dermatologist and to hear that 

907
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,320
hopefully things are maybe 
starting to shift within the 

908
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:14,840
field of dermatology for sure 
into looking at things more on 

909
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:18,040
an internal level versus just 
covering up symptoms with like 

910
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,000
steroid creams and antibiotics 
and all those. 

911
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,040
For sure there's a time and 
place for everything. 

912
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:25,840
I think with severe disease of 
any kind, you can't replace 

913
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:28,960
certain medicines with lifestyle
changes. 

914
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:33,440
But to ignore lifestyle changes 
and negate them and not playing 

915
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:36,280
a role in our health is 
craziness. 

916
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,280
One of the things that drove me 
into dermatology and one of the 

917
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:43,000
things I love about our skin is 
you can see right away the 

918
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,520
status of your health. 
Very rarely. 

919
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:49,640
How often has somebody come up 
to you and say, how's your liver

920
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,200
doing, you know, or how is your 
heart health? 

921
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:55,480
We, we don't really see that 
day-to-day, but I can see just 

922
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:57,480
looking at your skin, how you're
doing. 

923
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:01,560
I can see whether you're I'll, I
can see whether you're, you're 

924
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:03,240
glowing, you're healthy and 
vibrant. 

925
00:50:03,240 --> 00:50:06,280
I can see if your hair and nails
are growing, you're probably 

926
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,320
doing well internally. 
If you're sick, there's changes.

927
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:13,600
I can see if you're in, if you 
have immune dysregulation, I can

928
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:15,960
see it in your skin. 
If you're inflamed, I can see it

929
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,760
in your skin. 
So listening to our like 

930
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:23,000
biosensor, which is our skin, is
an easy way to say, hey, let me 

931
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,080
tweak this. 
Or maybe maybe I need to go 

932
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:27,920
outside, or maybe I need to 
change my diet a little bit. 

933
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:29,200
Maybe having doughnuts for 
breakfast. 

934
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:30,600
Probably not the smartest idea 
though. 

935
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:32,960
I'd love me a doughnut. 
I try to minimize it, you know. 

936
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:37,720
Going back to sunlight, our 
philosophy is that there are so 

937
00:50:37,720 --> 00:50:41,280
many benefits of getting 
adequate natural sunlight. 

938
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,560
What are some of those benefits 
that the Sun provides for us? 

939
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:50,120
So completely agree. 
Light in particular is medicine 

940
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:53,400
and we we use light every single
day in dermatology. 

941
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:57,400
Sunlight itself is like the most
original ancestral form of light

942
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,720
that we have. 
There's a component of physical 

943
00:51:00,720 --> 00:51:04,840
Wellness that we get and a 
component of Wellness and mental

944
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,280
health that we get that may be 
less measurable. 

945
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:10,280
But right off the bat, the 
discussion about vitamin D is 

946
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:13,360
really important. 
We get vitamin D from sun 

947
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:16,080
exposure or supplements. 
I tend to find sun exposure to 

948
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:18,680
be more natural form and I tend 
to recommend it for everybody. 

949
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,960
That being said, I would, you 
know, listen to whatever your 

950
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:24,840
doctor suggests in terms of what
you need medically. 

951
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:28,920
But I love being outside 20-30 
minutes a day, morning or 

952
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:32,080
afternoon, just enough to 
stimulate my skin's ability to 

953
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:34,280
produce some vitamin D. 
That's right off the bat. 

954
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:39,520
We know that sunlight, 
particularly certain wavelengths

955
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:43,560
of sunlight, can modulate our 
skin's immune system, and we've 

956
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:46,360
harnessed that to actually treat
skin disease. 

957
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:49,800
So when patients come into my 
office and many other practices 

958
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:54,960
and they have psoriasis or they 
have eczema that isn't 

959
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:58,160
controlled, or they want a 
natural source, I actually use 

960
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:01,400
phototherapy. 
And phototherapy is a very 

961
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:07,360
precise wavelength of light that
we learned from many, many, 

962
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:10,760
many, many years ago where 
patients would sit and bathe in 

963
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:15,400
mud and get sunlight to treat 
their skin disease. 

964
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:18,400
And we would see this, you know,
in the Middle East very 

965
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:19,880
frequently. 
We would see this in other 

966
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:24,520
countries where patients were 
instructed to go lay in the Dead

967
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:28,360
Sea mud, rub it all over their 
skin and lay outside in the sun 

968
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:32,000
to improve skin disease. 
When we studied that we we found

969
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:35,800
that actually light will 
modulate our skin's immune 

970
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:37,640
system. 
It will actually calm it down. 

971
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:42,000
So I have many patients who, you
know, self medicate by going 

972
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,520
outside and getting some sun and
their skin disease gets better. 

973
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:49,480
So even in the office, we 
utilize light to treat a variety

974
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,800
of conditions, you know, even 
things like vitiligo where 

975
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:56,520
patients lose skin color because
of an autoimmune condition. 

976
00:52:56,720 --> 00:53:00,840
We utilize UV light, very 
specific wavelengths of UV light

977
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:05,040
to treat their skin without the 
need for medicine or pills or 

978
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:08,160
certain drugs. 
So light itself is totally 

979
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:11,280
medicine. 
I myself have psoriasis and 

980
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:13,520
during the summer, my psoriasis 
gets better. 

981
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:16,240
I'm outside longer, I'm getting 
more UV on my skin. 

982
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:20,440
Now I'm not burning. 
So I know my skin's tolerance 

983
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:23,080
and how much I can get. 
And everybody should know that, 

984
00:53:23,240 --> 00:53:26,960
for example, I can be outside 
for an hour before my skin turns

985
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:29,440
red or burns. 
So I'll be outside just before 

986
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,680
that. 
If you, you know, you tell me I 

987
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:35,120
can go outside for 20 minutes 
and then my skin turns red. 

988
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:38,200
I would say go out and for 15 
minutes and you'll be fine. 

989
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:41,520
So I love, I love, love, love 
sunlight. 

990
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:44,000
I love light. 
We utilize light for many 

991
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:46,080
different things. 
And in fact, being in Los 

992
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:49,960
Angeles, being in the 21st 
century, cosmetics is very big. 

993
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:54,400
And we utilize light sources for
cosmetic treatments as well. 

994
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:58,480
All of the lasers that we use in
skin come from understanding how

995
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:03,520
light modulates our skin. 
We call it photobiomodulation so

996
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:06,280
we can harness specific 
wavelengths of light to treat 

997
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:09,360
certain parts of the skin. 
Now I brought this up being on a

998
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:13,240
farm, you know, too much of a 
good thing can be a bad thing. 

999
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:17,200
You know, leave some animal hide
outside in the sun for 30 days 

1000
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:19,000
and it starts to turn into 
leather. 

1001
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:22,960
So I'm not saying go outside 
indefinitely and don't do the 

1002
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:26,040
stuff that's trending now on 
social media, like the peroneal 

1003
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:28,840
tanning and the people laying 
outside with, you know, the legs

1004
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:29,920
up in the air. 
I don't think that's the 

1005
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:32,400
smartest idea, but I think 
getting sun is great. 

1006
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:34,960
Yeah, I do think it's important 
to have a healthy respect for 

1007
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:40,200
the sun and recognize that it 
can cause damage in excess. 

1008
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:42,920
Yeah. 
And that's why recently I had a 

1009
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:45,400
screening, a full body screening
for moles. 

1010
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:47,680
Like I, I'm a Molly person. 
I have a lot of moles and I 

1011
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:49,160
hadn't had one in a really long 
time. 

1012
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:52,040
We're launching an SPFI was 
like, I feel like I should just 

1013
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:54,000
do this for sure. 
And it was. 

1014
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:58,160
I was actually really surprised.
It was really quick and easy and

1015
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:00,520
everything came back good. 
Excellent. 

1016
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:02,840
But what are your thoughts on 
the importance of like regular 

1017
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:04,240
screening? 
Love it, love it. 

1018
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:06,360
I'm biased. 
I am a dermatologist and a skin 

1019
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:08,480
cancer surgeon. 
So for me, catching things 

1020
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:12,680
earlier, and this is, this is 
true across all of medicine, but

1021
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:15,520
catching things earlier results 
in better outcomes. 

1022
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:18,840
Skin screenings are so easy to 
do. 

1023
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:21,760
You mentioned it. 
It's not invasive like getting a

1024
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:25,720
colonoscopy or ACT scan of your 
lungs or something. 

1025
00:55:25,720 --> 00:55:31,200
It's quick, it's painless. 
There's no added medicine that 

1026
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:32,720
you need. 
There's no added procedure. 

1027
00:55:32,720 --> 00:55:34,280
You don't need to go to the 
hospital for this. 

1028
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:36,200
You don't need any anesthesia 
for this. 

1029
00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:40,240
And any good dermatologist 
should be looking at your skin 

1030
00:55:40,240 --> 00:55:42,960
from the top of your scalp to 
the bottom of your torus and 

1031
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:46,360
every square inch because in 
essence, you can develop 

1032
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:48,520
something anywhere. 
You know, I talk about this all 

1033
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:52,560
the time, but Bob Marley died of
a Melanoma on his toenail, and 

1034
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:54,600
he would have never thought that
he was susceptible to that. 

1035
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:56,760
Actually, he thought it was a 
soccer injury and a bruise. 

1036
00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:59,240
So any, every square inch should
be examined. 

1037
00:55:59,240 --> 00:56:02,240
But it's so easy to do, and I 
would recommend it because best 

1038
00:56:02,240 --> 00:56:05,560
case scenario, nothing shows up.
Worst case scenario, you find 

1039
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:07,280
something and you find it early 
and you can treat it. 

1040
00:56:07,720 --> 00:56:09,800
Yeah, she had like a little a 
little thing. 

1041
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:11,640
Yes, dermatoscope. 
I love that thing. 

1042
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:14,440
What does it do? 
It helps us identify features 

1043
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:19,560
under the microscope that will 
tell us, OK, is this harmless or

1044
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:21,160
is this something that needs to 
come off? 

1045
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:24,000
So it's just a little magnifier.
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's pattern 

1046
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:25,480
recognition. 
You learned this in training. 

1047
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:27,680
And it was like coming up with 
like a yes or no. 

1048
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:29,080
Oh no, we're. 
Almost there. 

1049
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:31,240
We're not there yet, but yeah, 
we're almost there. 

1050
00:56:31,240 --> 00:56:33,360
There's like that. 
And that's the realm of AI in 

1051
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:37,000
medicine and, and the interface 
between computers and humans. 

1052
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:40,320
But what we've learned in 
training is pattern recognition.

1053
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:43,480
So we look at look at this under
a lighted microscope. 

1054
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:46,480
We call it epiluminescence 
transmicroscopy, a fancy name 

1055
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:49,680
for a shiny microscope on your 
skin, and we can see certain 

1056
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:53,000
patterns or features that tell 
us with good confidence this 

1057
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,720
needs to come off or this is a 
harmless mole, or a pimple or a 

1058
00:56:55,720 --> 00:56:56,600
growth. 
OK. 

1059
00:56:56,600 --> 00:57:00,040
And if people wanted to do any 
sort of like self checking, are 

1060
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:02,960
there certain signs that people 
can look out for in their own 

1061
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:04,320
moles if they're just looking at
themselves? 

1062
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:06,080
Totally. 
So we talked about skin cancer 

1063
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:08,440
is the most common cancer in the
world and one in four Americans 

1064
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:10,760
will develop this at some point 
in their life. 

1065
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:13,680
So it is something to, you know,
pay attention to the the 

1066
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:18,720
earliest and most common sign is
a pimple or a bump that won't go

1067
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:21,440
away in a month. 
So if you think you have a 

1068
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:25,360
pimple or a bug bite, mosquito 
bite, ingrown hair, what have 

1069
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:27,360
you, they usually resolve within
a month. 

1070
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:30,920
If they're there longer than 
that, see your dermatologist. 

1071
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:34,160
If you're washing your face or 
rubbing your skin and you notice

1072
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:37,400
something bleed easily. 
That's the most common sign of a

1073
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:40,920
basal cell carcinoma and that is
something that can be easily 

1074
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:44,040
treated when caught early. 
See your dermatologist. 

1075
00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:48,120
In terms of moles, we look for 
the ugly duckling or something 

1076
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:51,680
that is new or changing. 
So if you have a lot of moles, 

1077
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:54,520
you've gotten a sense of your 
skin just every single day 

1078
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:57,600
showering and changing what your
normal pattern looks like. 

1079
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:00,400
And I don't expect anybody to to
make a diagnosis. 

1080
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:03,040
I don't expect anybody to tell 
me this is harmless, this is 

1081
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:06,160
malignant, etcetera. 
But you know, an ugly duckling, 

1082
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:08,200
when you see it, you're like, 
hey, this mole looks different. 

1083
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:10,360
This is catching my eye. 
You should see your 

1084
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:12,680
dermatologist. 
And something that's easy to do,

1085
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:17,000
and I recommend this for anybody
who has a lot of moles is mole 

1086
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:18,600
selfies. 
It's like literally what it 

1087
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:21,200
sounds like is have somebody or 
you can do it yourself. 

1088
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:24,200
Take a good resolution 
photograph either on a 

1089
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:27,080
smartphone or a tablet of areas 
that have a lot of moles. 

1090
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:30,360
And once a month or even once 
every other month, just match 

1091
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:32,960
them after the shower and you 
can say, hey, that mole's there,

1092
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:34,600
that mole's there. 
This is new. 

1093
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:37,080
This isn't in the photo. 
See your dermatologist. 

1094
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:40,920
I've heard you talk about how 
moles can shift and change with 

1095
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:44,960
hormone fluctuations, and I've 
noticed that pregnancy I've seen

1096
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:46,400
that. 
Is that something? 

1097
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:48,520
Is that like a red flag or is 
that just normal? 

1098
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:50,040
That's so. 
That's totally normal. 

1099
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:54,520
So moles are under progesterone 
response. 

1100
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:58,720
So you can see this in women who
are on birth control and women 

1101
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:01,960
who are pregnant in moles will 
get darker. 

1102
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:04,320
They can develop what's called 
the linea negra or dark streak 

1103
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:06,640
on their abdomen. 
And that's also the same reason 

1104
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:09,360
why melasma shows up against 
darker during pregnancy or when 

1105
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:12,920
you're on birth control. 
So our pigmented friends or our 

1106
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:15,240
freckles or moles can get darker
with pregnancy. 

1107
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:19,160
Now, that doesn't mean you get a
carte blanche to say, hey, 

1108
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:21,760
anything goes. 
Anything dark during pregnancy 

1109
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:24,920
is normal. 
If you notice a mole that's 

1110
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:27,680
changing faster. 
If you notice a new mole that 

1111
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:30,040
wasn't there, still see your 
dermatologist. 

1112
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:32,760
But definitely things can change
during pregnancy and they 

1113
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:36,560
regress after delivery or if you
stop birth control. 

1114
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:39,480
Anything that stops the 
progesterone response, the color

1115
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:41,000
will lighten over the coming 
months. 

1116
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:45,360
I love that you call yourself 
the anti dermatologist. 

1117
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:49,080
Dermatologist. 
I mean, I agree with that. 

1118
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:52,800
And I mentioned earlier a little
bit about my experience and 

1119
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:56,320
going to a dermatologist for my 
acne in junior high high school 

1120
00:59:56,520 --> 01:00:01,440
and was pretty much prescribed 
every Band-Aid under the planet,

1121
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:04,880
some of which helped for a 
little while, some of which I 

1122
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:09,240
think caused more damage than if
I had just done nothing to begin

1123
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:10,720
with. 
And I'm curious as a 

1124
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:13,880
dermatologist. 
What would you say most 

1125
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:17,920
dermatologists are getting 
wrong, whether it's a mindset or

1126
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:21,240
a practice? 
What's like the biggest thing 

1127
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:23,760
that you think dermatologists 
are thinking about in the wrong 

1128
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:26,560
way? 
I think this will apply to all 

1129
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:31,320
doctors is not listening to 
their patient because we're 

1130
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:36,680
trained to think that we know 
better and we may know disease 

1131
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:38,840
better. 
We may know maybe 

1132
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:41,880
pathophysiology better of how 
disease develops. 

1133
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:46,840
But you know your body way 
better than I will ever know it.

1134
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:51,240
So if you come in and tell me, 
hey, like my acne is flaring and

1135
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:53,840
I don't sit down and say, hey, 
like, what's your life like? 

1136
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:58,400
Oh, well, I started a new job or
I, I'm in finals week or you 

1137
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:01,520
know, I got into I, I was 
divorced or what have you and I 

1138
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:04,040
don't take into consideration, 
Oh, my diet is terrible. 

1139
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:07,600
I started a new medication. 
I don't listen to you and find 

1140
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:10,600
out what's going on in your life
besides saying acne is caused by

1141
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:12,080
this, therefore treated with 
this. 

1142
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:15,960
I've done you no service. 
So the the far and beyond the 

1143
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:20,120
simplest thing that we can fix 
is listen to the patient. 

1144
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:25,680
In addition to that, I think 
it's keeping an open mind to 

1145
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:28,920
alternatives that may have not 
been taught in strictly in 

1146
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:33,480
medical school that have been 
tried and true in other 

1147
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:37,640
societies, other cultures, and 
maybe even in our own population

1148
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:41,200
that isn't in medical textbooks,
but works right. 

1149
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:44,440
My, it's funny, the older I get,
the more I realized my 

1150
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:46,560
grandparents and parents were 
right about a lot of things that

1151
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:48,760
I like waved off during my 
training. 

1152
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:51,120
You know, you go through college
and you go through medical 

1153
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:55,080
school, very science oriented, 
very, not to say westernized, 

1154
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:57,120
but westernized. 
And then you come out, you 

1155
01:01:57,120 --> 01:01:59,480
practice a little bit, you see 
some bad things, you see some 

1156
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:01,200
good things and you're like, 
wait, fucking they were right 

1157
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:03,040
about this. 
I can't go out in the sun. 

1158
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:04,160
It'll make me feel a little 
better. 

1159
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:05,760
I shouldn't eat that. 
They're right. 

1160
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:07,480
This is bad for my skin, bad for
my health. 

1161
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:11,200
But because it wasn't in my 
textbook, I didn't know about 

1162
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:14,400
her or think it was true. 
So keeping an open approach or 

1163
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:18,040
an open eye, like I talk about 
the sun all the time, all the 

1164
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:19,440
time. 
I'm outside all the time. 

1165
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:21,520
I got 3 kids, I'm running around
outside all the time. 

1166
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:23,120
They play a lot of sports. 
We're outdoors. 

1167
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:27,040
I know the sun is safe within a 
reasonable amount. 

1168
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:31,920
I, I respect it, I love it. 
I don't abuse my sun exposure, 

1169
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:35,720
but it's almost blasphemy for me
to advocate sun exposure as a 

1170
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:37,080
dermatologist. 
But I don't think there's 

1171
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:40,360
anything wrong with it. 
So keeping an open, an open 

1172
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:43,160
perspective and an open 
viewpoint will change medicine 

1173
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:45,920
for the better. 
Before we wrap up, I have to ask

1174
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:50,800
you about spray tans. 
Yeah, because I recently, So I, 

1175
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:54,120
the last time I got a spray tan 
was maybe thing for my 

1176
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:55,800
Bachelorette party, so a long 
time ago. 

1177
01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:58,200
And I recently went on a trip 
with a good friend. 

1178
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:00,360
She had just gotten a spray tan.
It looked so good. 

1179
01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:04,760
So I had my assistant do some 
research in looking into what's 

1180
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:07,720
actually in a spray tan. 
And a lot of these places they 

1181
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:10,960
advertised to be organic spray 
tans. 

1182
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:13,880
I was like, what is that? 
What's what's in what are the 

1183
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:18,240
ingredients in these things? 
And she she came back to me with

1184
01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:22,520
several ingredient list and it 
was like full of petrochemical 

1185
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:26,120
red 40 yellow 5, like all the 
dyes. 

1186
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:29,280
I'm like, how are these things 
like quote organic? 

1187
01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:32,760
It's crazy. 
Is there such a thing as a 

1188
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:36,160
non-toxic or what you would 
consider to maybe be like less 

1189
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:40,360
toxic or safe spray tan? 
I if we're going to pick 

1190
01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:46,240
tanning, OK, And I don't think 
tans are a, are a bad thing per 

1191
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:48,640
SE. 
I think the problem is the 

1192
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:53,120
pursuit of a tan. 
I think I tan very easily. 

1193
01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:55,280
That's what my skin's natural 
biology does. 

1194
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:58,600
In somebody who has blonde hair 
and blue eyed, their skin will 

1195
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:01,600
not naturally tan. 
So their pursuit of a tan 

1196
01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:04,720
creates a problem. 
If you're going to pick between 

1197
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:11,480
tanning, I think spray tans are 
safer than trying to get a tan 

1198
01:04:11,480 --> 01:04:13,280
in a tanning bed. 
By far. 

1199
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:15,760
I don't think anybody should tan
in a tanning bed. 

1200
01:04:15,960 --> 01:04:19,520
There's nothing beneficial that 
you'll get from concentrated UV 

1201
01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:23,200
exposure. 
If you get a tan inadvertently 

1202
01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:25,320
because you're outside in the 
sun, you're on vacation, you're 

1203
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:28,880
hiking, you're playing with your
kids, I think biologically that 

1204
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:33,000
tends to be better than chemical
spray tans or artificial tans. 

1205
01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:35,880
But for the most part, the way 
spray tans work is it's a 

1206
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:38,760
chemical that goes on your skin 
that undergoes an oxidative 

1207
01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:41,560
process, and in that oxidation, 
it changes the color. 

1208
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:47,560
It's essentially paint. 
You are for sure. 

1209
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:48,760
You are for sure. 
Do I? 

1210
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:51,120
Do I like it? 
No. 

1211
01:04:52,040 --> 01:04:56,240
Do I, if I had to pick the 
lesser of the two evils because 

1212
01:04:56,240 --> 01:04:59,320
I know, for example, I can't 
convince a group of women who 

1213
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:02,480
are about to have a great event 
or a wedding or a Bachelorette 

1214
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:04,240
party that they're going to do 
it anyway? 

1215
01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:06,720
Pick the spray tan, not the 
tanning bed. 

1216
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:10,920
I think we talked about this 
concept of organic and natural, 

1217
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:12,840
right? 
And I bring this, I bring 2 

1218
01:05:12,840 --> 01:05:15,680
important things up. 
Oil from the ground is natural. 

1219
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:18,880
We wouldn't drink it, right? 
But it's natural. 

1220
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:22,320
Poison oak is organic and all 
natural. 

1221
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:24,600
I wouldn't rub it on my skin, 
right. 

1222
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:30,680
So we've, we've learned to 
market certain terms to the 

1223
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:35,280
consumer to make them think it's
safe or completely harmless. 

1224
01:05:35,280 --> 01:05:38,200
And it's not, you know. 
Yeah, not everything that grows 

1225
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:41,720
from the earth is safe. 
Yeah, run into a, you know, run 

1226
01:05:41,720 --> 01:05:43,840
into some poison oak, you'll be 
scratching for dates. 

1227
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:46,960
Well, you know, if you avoid it,
is it any problem? 

1228
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:49,200
No, of course not. 
You know, but you have to be 

1229
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:51,920
very cognizant as to what you're
doing. 

1230
01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:54,920
Spray tan is not a natural 
thing. 

1231
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:57,720
You cannot farm this. 
You cannot grow this. 

1232
01:05:57,720 --> 01:05:59,480
So, you know, it's some chemical
derivative. 

1233
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:03,560
But I also tend to be pragmatic.
You know, people are going to do

1234
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:06,200
things and if I can at least 
guide them in the direction of 

1235
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:09,640
the least damage. 
If it's every once in a while, 

1236
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:11,560
it's OK. 
If it's a daily or monthly 

1237
01:06:11,560 --> 01:06:13,720
thing, now we're talking about 
inhalational hazards. 

1238
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:17,400
We're talking about certain 
chemicals that will be on your 

1239
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:19,400
skin and may be absorbed over 
time. 

1240
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:23,040
A lot of stuff that's just in 
the Gray area where FDA doesn't 

1241
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:25,040
really regulate. 
We don't know what we're doing, 

1242
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:30,040
so figuring out how often you're
doing it once in a while may be 

1243
01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:32,080
OK. 
If it's becoming a routine 

1244
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:36,280
thing, don't do it. 
Gel manicures are also getting a

1245
01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:38,240
lot of heat and questions right 
now. 

1246
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:41,160
Are these contributing to skin 
cancer? 

1247
01:06:41,640 --> 01:06:43,400
Great question. 
A lot of controversy, a lot of 

1248
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:47,400
virality and videos on social 
media and and even advisory 

1249
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:50,240
statements from dermatologists 
about gel manicures and why 

1250
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:54,360
that's a big deal is that often 
times gels have to be cured with

1251
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:57,240
AUV lamp where you stick your 
hands and get UV exposure to 

1252
01:06:57,240 --> 01:07:02,920
cure the gel onto the nail. 
We theorize or at least discuss 

1253
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:07,320
that probably getting UV on your
fingernails is not the greatest 

1254
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:09,760
idea. 
And we've thought, at least 

1255
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:12,640
dermatologists collectively have
thought that this increases the 

1256
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:15,560
susceptibility for certain skin 
cancers under the nail. 

1257
01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:19,280
Now my practice and myself, 
we've developed a reputation for

1258
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:23,440
doing the most nail surgeries 
and most of and probably all of 

1259
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:25,440
Los Angeles. 
So I see a lot of Melanoma and 

1260
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:27,880
squamous cell carcinoma of the 
fingernail. 

1261
01:07:28,680 --> 01:07:31,400
What I do know and what the 
evidence suggests is it's not 

1262
01:07:31,400 --> 01:07:34,920
exactly straightforward. 
The majority of squamous cells 

1263
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:38,440
on the fingernails actually 
arise from HPV, not gel 

1264
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:42,240
manicures. 
And melanomas that occur on the 

1265
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:47,920
nail or underneath the nail tend
to have a mutation profile that 

1266
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:50,440
is not directly UV exposure 
related. 

1267
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:56,440
So it may not increase your risk
directly, but what we do know is

1268
01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:59,960
that it ages your hand 
prematurely when you're sticking

1269
01:07:59,960 --> 01:08:03,000
it under that UV box. 
We know for certain that UV 

1270
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:06,960
exposure will wrinkle and 
pigment your skin faster than if

1271
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:09,160
you didn't. 
And one of the quickest places 

1272
01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:13,440
people see age is their hands. 
So if you're what a lot of my 

1273
01:08:13,440 --> 01:08:16,520
Durham colleagues do and what I 
recommend for, you know, friends

1274
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:20,800
and family if they like getting 
gel gel gel manicures done, is 

1275
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:24,680
wear a glove protective glove. 
Usually the gel itself is 

1276
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:27,319
protected from UV penetrating to
the nail bed. 

1277
01:08:27,359 --> 01:08:29,680
I'm not worried about that. 
And if you're worried about 

1278
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:32,279
aging or wrinkling, wear AUV 
Protective Glove. 

1279
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:37,319
I've never heard that HPV can 
cause cancer under the nail. 

1280
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:39,399
Where else can HPV cause? 
Cancer. 

1281
01:08:39,399 --> 01:08:41,319
Great question. 
It's the number one cause of 

1282
01:08:41,319 --> 01:08:43,960
throat, head and neck throat 
cancer in the United States. 

1283
01:08:44,319 --> 01:08:47,080
It's the number one cause of 
squamous cell carcinoma of the 

1284
01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:48,880
general region in both men and 
women. 

1285
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:52,960
Historically, it was the number 
one cause of cancer deaths in 

1286
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:57,319
young women ages 25 to 45 is 
cervical cancer. 

1287
01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:01,200
That's changed a lot over the 
last 10 years, partly due to 

1288
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:04,720
Gardasil, partly due to 
awareness, partly due to early 

1289
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:08,120
detection. 
But HPV is a nasty little virus.

1290
01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:12,479
It most commonly shows up as 
warts, warts and kids hands, 

1291
01:09:12,479 --> 01:09:16,960
feet, you know, and those are 
benign, but they come with an 

1292
01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:20,240
invisible sibling, which is the 
high risk strains, which can 

1293
01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:23,240
cause a lot of cancer. 
I do a lot of posting about this

1294
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:26,800
and bring awareness because 
people don't recognize that this

1295
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:29,800
is a source of skin cancer and 
they always blame the sun. 

1296
01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:33,880
And I, you know, I probably 
operate on half a dozen skin 

1297
01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:36,640
cancers in the general area and,
and on the hands and feet a 

1298
01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:39,319
month. 
And none of these are sun 

1299
01:09:39,319 --> 01:09:40,720
related. 
So you don't blame the sun? 

1300
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:43,479
By looking at the cancer, 
whether or not it's sun related.

1301
01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:46,479
Yeah. 
And you can, if you even wanted 

1302
01:09:46,479 --> 01:09:50,880
to, you can go further and test 
the the tissue for for certain 

1303
01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:54,240
features that suggest whether 
this is from the sun, HPV, 

1304
01:09:54,320 --> 01:09:56,960
etcetera, etcetera. 
Doctor Te'o, thank you so much 

1305
01:09:56,960 --> 01:09:59,040
for being here. 
The world needs more 

1306
01:09:59,040 --> 01:10:01,720
dermatologists like you and I 
think people are going to get. 

1307
01:10:01,720 --> 01:10:02,920
A lot out of this. 
Conversation. 

1308
01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:04,880
It was so enlightening. 
I had a blast. 

1309
01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:07,600
Thank you for having me as we 
talked about a lot of fun things

1310
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:11,240
and if I can be of any help to 
anybody, please don't hesitate 

1311
01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:13,280
to reach out. 
We have a small social media 

1312
01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:14,840
presence. 
You can message me, you can text

1313
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:17,320
me, you can e-mail me. 
Any which way I can help anybody

1314
01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:18,960
listening to this, happy to 
help. 

1315
01:10:19,240 --> 01:10:20,920
That's so generous. 
And where can people find your 

1316
01:10:20,920 --> 01:10:22,480
sunpowder? 
Oh, appreciate that. 

1317
01:10:22,480 --> 01:10:24,880
So it's on our web 
sitesunpowder.co. 

1318
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:27,600
All the science is there. 
All of our clinical trials are 

1319
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:29,120
there. 
The data is there. 

1320
01:10:29,120 --> 01:10:32,640
There is a small Instagram 
handle called Drink Sunpowder. 

1321
01:10:32,640 --> 01:10:34,080
You can find out more 
information. 

1322
01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:37,000
I have a small social media 
handle. 

1323
01:10:37,120 --> 01:10:38,720
It's just my name, last name, 
MD. 

1324
01:10:39,040 --> 01:10:42,040
If you want to see what we do, 
what we, what we provide in our 

1325
01:10:42,040 --> 01:10:45,920
practice, and honestly just skin
health information, I'm happy to

1326
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:47,120
help. 
Well, we'll have to have you 

1327
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:49,760
back sometime because there's so
much we didn't cover today. 

1328
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:53,600
We covered the sun, but there's 
so much more that I could. 

1329
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:55,800
Yeah, I can talk for hours. 
Yeah, we'll have to have you 

1330
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:56,240
back. 
Thank. 

1331
01:10:56,400 --> 01:10:57,240
You thank you, of course.