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The FDA wanted you to lie to 
your consumers. 

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They're a warpath to get rid of 
raw milk. 

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And you guys are the only raw 
cheese brand that's actually 

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raw. 
The FDA told us we're the last 

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ones. 
Damn right we're not changing 

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it. 
It's fraud to do otherwise. 

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Mark McAfee is back for another 
conversation on Grounded 

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Wellness. 
Today, Mark is the founder of 

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Raw Farm USA, the largest raw 
dairy farm in the world. 

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Today's conversation is 
different. 

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Raw Farm has found itself at the
center of a major battle 

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involving the FDA. 
Well, you're asking us to 

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destroy thousands and thousands 
of dollars in product it. 

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Was $2,000,000. 
Mark takes us behind the scenes 

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of what actually happened. 
They refused to answer questions

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that we proposed to them. 
And why raw milk is facing a 

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level of food scrutiny that most
foods never receive. 

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We will not lie, we will not 
commit fraud, we will not be 

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misleading. 
And I don't serve the FDAI serve

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people. 
Excuse me for being emotional, 

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but it's it's not deep. 
Let's dig in really quick before

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we dive in. 
We love getting your feedback. 

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So please take a second to leave
a comment and tell us that your 

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favorite topics that we've 
covered or guess that you want 

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to see on the show in the 
future. 

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Also, by reviewing, liking and 
subscribing, you'll never miss a

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single episode and we get to 
keep providing you with this ad 

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free podcast. 
OK, without further ado, let's 

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get back into it. 
Mark McAfee, welcome back to 

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Grounded Wellness. 
You've been here before. 

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You're one of our few repeat 
guests that we've had on the 

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show, and your first episode was
a huge hit. 

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I definitely recommend that 
anyone listening go back and 

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listen to that one. 
If you haven't seen it yet, it 

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was episode 19. 
And in that one, we talked a lot

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about what raw milk is, what the
benefits of raw milk are, the 

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difference between raw and 
pasteurized covered a lot of 

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ground. 
And we'll talk about some of 

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that today. 
But what I really want to talk 

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to you about is this whole 
debacle going on right now with 

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the FDA and Raw Farm, 
specifically in relation to your

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raw cheese products. 
So I first became aware of this 

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when I saw a video that your son
Aaron posted on the Raw Farm 

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Instagram. 
Your son is the president of the

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company. 
He said President, OK. 

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00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:18,480
And he posted a video and shared
that the FDA had alleged that 

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there was E coli in RAW Farm 
cheese that was associated with 

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a multi state outbreak. 
He stated that the allegations 

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were false and that Raw Farm 
would not be issuing A voluntary

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00:02:31,640 --> 00:02:34,800
recall as you guys have always 
done in the past. 

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And then two weeks later, Raw 
Farm issued a statement letting 

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people know that you guys would 
in fact be moving forward with 

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the recall. 
What happened in between that 

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00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,880
initial video and the recall 
statement that later followed? 

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When we issued the voluntary 
recall, he said under protest. 

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I saw that. 
That really, really didn't land 

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00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,520
well with the FDA. 
A lot of dialogue going on, a 

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lot of Zoom calls going back and
forth. 

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By the way, they wouldn't turn 
on their Zoom video. 

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They didn't want to be seen who 
they were. 

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It's just they wanted their 
voices to be heard, but their 

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faces not to be recognized. 
They did not recognize and 

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realize that we had the data and
they didn't have the data. 

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Now, what do I mean by data? 
Well, we have a pathogen lab on 

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farm. 
This didn't come out of the 

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news. 
It's coming out of your news 

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today. 
But we had 14,000 tests of our 

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cheese, butter, cream, milk, all
of our products from September 

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through February, 14,000 tests, 
about 8090 tests a day on our 

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products and all of them were 
negative for E coli O157-HM. 

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So we had the data. 
We had the data that's called 

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called causation. 
When you can link somebody from 

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your product to their illness, 
that's called causation. 

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What they had was 
epidemiological evidence. 

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Now, what is that? 
Well, it's not admissible in 

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court. 
And #2 it comes from fecal 

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samples collected by Pulse Net 
across the United States. 

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And what they do is whole genome
sequencing. 

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And they have questionnaires 
that they ask patients that they

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came I'll from whatever source. 
What they consumed. 

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Well, what they consume is a 
broad range of things. 

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Raw cheese from our farm, raw 
cheese from somebody else's 

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farm, raw milk from unbranded 
sources. 

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And some people weren't even 
classified, Those two that 

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weren't even classified with 
whole genome sequence related, 

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but had consumed raw dairy. 
So what they do is they take 

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this massive amount of data. 
I mean, you think about this for

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a second, 900 people every day 
have this data come through with

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the whole genome sequencing and 
pull stent 900 every day. 

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So from all sources of E coli in
America, it's a massive thing 

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that happens every day. 
Well, they wanted to look at 

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these 9 / 6 months and we said 
we've got the data showing we're

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not connected to these people 
and we want to see the 

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questionnaires that these people
fulfilled that were asked of 

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them to find out what the data 
was before we do any kind of 

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recall. 
They refused to give us their 

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questionnaires. 
They said you're asking too many

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questions. 
I said we don't run any emotion.

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We run on hard data. 
We want to see the information. 

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We're scientists here. 
We want to see the data. 

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We had the data. 
We had the test data and they 

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didn't have any because all the 
tests they'd performed were 

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negative and they hadn't done 
any tests on our products. 

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So they asked their state 
partners in Texas and Florida. 

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If they hadn't done any tests, 
what tests were negative? 

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If they hadn't done testing on 
your products. 

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The tests that had come through 
were all negative. 

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00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,280
OK. 
So state of Texas did some 

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testing, State of Florida did 
testing, California did testing,

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all of them completely negative 
and we still have 14,000. 

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We said we have 14,000 more 
tests, they're all negative. 

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Yes, because this is the testing
that you guys are doing before 

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anything even leaves your 
facility. 

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Correct SO. 
And you have records of all of 

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that we. 
By batch so we know what's in 

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the food before it ever gets 
consumed. 

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It's on the farm test. 
And it's not like anything's 

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going to change, right? 
Like if it doesn't have E coli 

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when you test it, it's not going
to like later develop. 

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It the secure cap on the label 
there on the, you can't take it 

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00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:02,800
off and spin it, right? 
Yeah. 

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00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,600
So we know what's in there and 
it's secured as an individual 

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unit. 
Well, the state of California 

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had no problem with our product.
We're all good. 

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They've done the testing. 
We know the data. 

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It was all good. 
It was the FDA, not state of 

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California. 
You notice there was no 

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disruption in California. 
It was all pretty good. 

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It was Interstate commerce of 
raw cheese in other states, 

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Texas and Florida. 
And so we asked them to please 

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do testing on the cheese, and 
they did. 

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And all the tests came back 
completely negative. 

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Who said yeah, that's because we
know what was in that cheese 

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before it ever left. 
This is a very unusual place the

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FDA has never found themselves 
in. 

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Was it someplace that had a 
pioneering vision and actually 

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implemented an on farm pathogen 
testing program with PCR? 

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00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:50,600
And PCR is extremely sensitive 
down to 50 logs. 50 logs is a 

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number with 50 zeros on it. 
OK. 

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00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,200
It's so big, I don't think my, 
my grandkids call it Google 

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00:06:56,200 --> 00:07:01,880
numbers that after 18 hours of, 
of culture, broth and culturing 

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and you do your, your, your 
quant 5 studio PCR, it's not 

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there. 
It's not there. 

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So we had that data and the FDA 
did not know what to do with it.

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So when they came to you with 
saying that there was a a 

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possible link and they wanted 
you to do the recall, you then 

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said well, we have all of our 
data and then they did 

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additional testing. 
All of that was negative. 

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So. 
The first thing we said was, is 

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there anyone sick in the 
hospital? 

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How are they said no, there's 
nobody sick in the hospital? 

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Well, where were the illnesses 
four to six months ago? 

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Oh, the illnesses themselves 
were not even no. 

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There's nobody sick today. 
Like even even that, was it even

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that serious? 
Do you know the the severity of 

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the illnesses? 
Only two people actually were 

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seen at a hospital, the rest 
recovered at home. 

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OK. 
That we are aware of. 

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So this was basic E coli, Got 
it. 

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Nobody wants to have that. 
But we asked them are there 

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anybody sick in the hospital? 
They said no. 

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This happened in September, 
October, November, 6 months ago.

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So there's no acute illnesses 
today? 

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No. 
All right, then, can you take 

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two or three days and give us 
some data so we can actually 

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understand why we would need to 
do a recall? 

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Because here's all the evidence 
why we wouldn't 14,000 tests. 

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And we'd like to see the 
questionnaires that these 

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consumers filled out which they 
didn't want to give to us. 

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So it was very much a non 
transparent kind of thing where 

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they're just trying to bully us 
into doing a recall. 

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They didn't have any evidence. 
Yeah, I mean, there's just so 

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many flaws, like one, no 
evidence, 2 anything that even 

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if there was evidence of 
something, that milk would not 

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still be on shelves today. 
These are new batches of milk 

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now. 
Let's let's do this. 

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It was not milk. 
Oh, cheese, right? 

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00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,680
Cheese, Yeah. 
It quickly became a discussion 

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about milk because that was 
convenient to talk about, but 

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00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:52,200
milk was not implicated. 
Yeah. 

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00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,320
What's interesting about this is
the same milk that we had 

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consumed throughout state of 
California cause 0 illness, 0 

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00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,600
illnesses in California have 
been tested extensively by us 

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00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,080
and state of California was made
into the cheese. 

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00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,880
And the cheese is arguably more 
safe than milk because it's aged

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00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,600
60 days with salt and it's low 
moisture with a low pH. 

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00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:15,000
So given the absurdity of all of
this, your response when they 

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00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,680
came to you was, no, we don't 
agree, we're not doing this. 

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00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:22,920
What changed then two weeks 
later for you guys to issue the 

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00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:27,240
voluntary recall under protest? 
Well, we said no, but 

191
00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:29,880
conditionally we said we need to
see more information. 

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00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,480
What is causing you to be 
considering this a crisis? 

193
00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:35,520
Can you tell us more? 
And they wouldn't. 

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00:09:35,680 --> 00:09:37,720
They said we have 
epidemiological evidence. 

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00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,200
Well, show us that evidence. 
And when they did, it was 

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00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:42,000
incomplete. 
They wouldn't 'cause they 

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00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,120
wouldn't give us any causation, 
which is show us a pathogen that

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00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,160
matches a consumer. 
They couldn't and they wouldn't.

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00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,280
They refused to do that. 
So what happened 2 weeks later? 

200
00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:52,880
Well, they said this could take 
months. 

201
00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,800
So what's the fastest way to get
this behind us? 

202
00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,160
We'll do a voluntary recall and 
just recall those batches we're 

203
00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,800
concerned about. 
I said, you mean recall batches 

204
00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,800
that are pathogen free. 
They said yes, there were a lot 

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00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,560
of pounds, 10s of thousands of 
pounds of cheese destroyed. 

206
00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,280
They were completely negative 
for E coli O 15787. 

207
00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,360
We did that because that was the
fastest way for them to conclude

208
00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:16,720
their investigation was to get 
rid of those batches they were 

209
00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,000
concerned about. 
Even though the state of Texas, 

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00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:22,040
Florida, California had already 
done testing on batches of 

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00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:23,720
cheese and all of them 
completely negative for 

212
00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:27,280
pathogens, just like we said 
they were because we had the 

213
00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:30,120
tests already. 
So that was the fastest way to 

214
00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:35,400
get through this FDA thing was 
to declare a recall, do it under

215
00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:39,840
protest, because we had data 
saying shoot first, ask 

216
00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:41,880
questions later seems to be 
their policy at this point. 

217
00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,080
You don't do an investigation to
figure out who's guilty first. 

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00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,360
You just shoot first. 
Don't worry about the answers. 

219
00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:49,440
And you mentioned they were 
upset at that language that you 

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00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,840
had added in there? 
I didn't care for their upset. 

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00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:53,360
I wanted to tell the truth. 
Yeah. 

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00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:54,880
What was their response to it? 
Where? 

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00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:55,640
What did they say? 
They. 

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00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:57,640
Didn't really have jurisdiction 
over how we were going to 

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00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:01,000
conduct our voluntary recall 
because here's the interesting 

226
00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,200
thing, they couldn't conduct A 
mandatory recall. 

227
00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:09,120
Do you know why the Food Safety 
Modernization Act requires you 

228
00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,880
have causation and they didn't 
have causation, so you have to 

229
00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,680
have a cause to actually do a 
mandatory recall. 

230
00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,200
They didn't have cause so. 
Which makes sense. 

231
00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:20,640
It's what the Food Safety 
Modernization Act says. 

232
00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,160
It's like if you have a pathogen
to the product, you find it, 

233
00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:25,720
yes, you should recall. 
And by the way, the FDA can make

234
00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:27,680
you do it. 
I agree with that. 

235
00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,520
Bottom line was they had none of
that, so they couldn't do a 

236
00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:32,840
mandatory recall. 
They relied on us to do a 

237
00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,760
voluntary recall, which was 
associated with all kinds of 

238
00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:39,960
brand condemning things like DPH
here at California said thou 

239
00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,440
shalt not ever drink any raw 
dairy ever and have nothing with

240
00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:44,880
raw dairy had to do with raw 
cheese. 

241
00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,440
So there was all kinds of really
brand assassinating terrible 

242
00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,880
things that they did associated 
with their releases that came 

243
00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:53,560
out. 
I'm curious, do you feel like 

244
00:11:53,560 --> 00:11:58,360
any of that had an impact on 
customer base or sales or did 

245
00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,280
people just like rally around 
you guys even more when all of 

246
00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:03,240
this was going on? 
I mean, I'm sure obviously there

247
00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:07,520
was an impact monetary impact of
getting rid of all those batches

248
00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,880
of cheese. 
But just in terms of customer 

249
00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:11,840
support, how did how did that 
land with people? 

250
00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:19,360
Our brand and the movement has 
evolved now over the many years 

251
00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:23,960
we've been working hard at this 
where it's become kind of an 

252
00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:28,280
interesting dynamic where if the
FDA passionately says something,

253
00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:29,680
run the other way and do the 
opposite. 

254
00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:31,920
And so I think. 
A lot of people are feeling like

255
00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:33,760
that. 
Core consumer feel that way. 

256
00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,280
I'm sure probably some of the 
new people like I'm concerned 

257
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,360
because they trust the FDA, 
which we should. 

258
00:12:39,560 --> 00:12:42,280
They should have integrity and 
and not be saying things that 

259
00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:44,920
are not true and they should 
have facts behind their 

260
00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:46,800
statements. 
If they have facts behind their 

261
00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,560
statements, I'd be the first one
to agree they don't then I 

262
00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:51,360
won't. 
I am questioning, I'm wanting 

263
00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:55,000
data. 
So I think at this point the 

264
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,360
consumers have consolidated 
around the fact that they trust 

265
00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,640
their farmer more than more than
the FDA because we ethically 

266
00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:02,960
really, really take 
responsibility for our products 

267
00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:05,400
and we have the pathogen test 
and we're doing the right 

268
00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,720
things, the right conditions, 
the right all the things we do 

269
00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:09,040
with our cows. 
You can come see it. 

270
00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:13,040
And they feel that in their 
heart and in their gut 

271
00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,600
themselves and the experience 
they expense themselves. 

272
00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:20,000
The biggest damage was to our 
big store partners that said, 

273
00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:22,920
FDA said it, we're going to drop
your products for a little while

274
00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:26,840
until they say, OK, so drop, you
know, drop cheese in 13 states 

275
00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,320
because of that. 
And that was a pretty big hit to

276
00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:31,960
us. 
So there is a damage. 

277
00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,120
Unfortunately, we can't collect 
that back from the FDA when they

278
00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,360
could find no evidence at all 
because of the sovereign 

279
00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:40,960
immunity that the government 
has. 

280
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:47,080
Sovereign immunity prevents 
collection from the FDA because 

281
00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,480
they have immunity as a 
government entity and they are 

282
00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,920
supposed to work on our behalf. 
And I can, I can understand 

283
00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:54,080
that. 
But if they're working on behalf

284
00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:57,040
and not using fax and now 
they're using appropriate 

285
00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,320
information, they're not, 
they're not working on our 

286
00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:02,320
behalf at that point. 
Remember this, the FDA 

287
00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:06,280
absolutely hates raw milk, 
cannot stand it. 

288
00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,280
They don't like raw cheese. 
They don't like anything raw 

289
00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:11,840
because their standards say it's
filthy. 

290
00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:13,960
And I have to agree with their 
standards because their 

291
00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,640
standards excuse filth. 
Everything gets pasteurized and 

292
00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:20,480
they refused to meet with us to 
talk about clean standards. 

293
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:22,800
Yeah, yeah. 
And we talked about this a lot 

294
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,840
last time. 
Like the milk that is sold in 

295
00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:30,840
stores, it actually does need to
be pasteurized because it is so 

296
00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,040
filthy, because the cows are 
raised in such filthy conditions

297
00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,560
and the milk is extracted in 
such filthy conditions. 

298
00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:41,760
It is nasty milk with a lot of 
bad bacteria in it that requires

299
00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,880
pasteurization, but what you're 
doing is so much different than 

300
00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,560
that. 
There's a series called Do Dairy

301
00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:52,160
Different and Do Dairy Different
is something that my my daughter

302
00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:56,160
Kaylee's working on that's going
to explain all the things around

303
00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,200
doing dairy different for people
versus a processor. 

304
00:14:59,960 --> 00:15:03,280
And there's a incredible amount 
of work that we do that the 

305
00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:05,360
other farmers wouldn't do, don't
need to do. 

306
00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:06,920
Yeah. 
Can you share just a little bit 

307
00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,040
of that kind of give us a 
glimpse of the extra procedures 

308
00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:13,840
and measures that you guys take 
to make sure that your milk is 

309
00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,680
is super clean? 
It's a grass to glass 

310
00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,600
comprehensive approach to all 
the risks for production of raw 

311
00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:22,360
milk. 
The conditions when the cows lay

312
00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:26,040
down sunshine grass. 
The water is tested, make sure 

313
00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,120
that they have good mineral 
supplementation to make sure 

314
00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,680
they're very healthy and energy 
levels nutritionist and what 

315
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,840
they eat to make sure they have 
good a good ration. 

316
00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,880
How the Otter is cleaned. 
There's no manure on any of our 

317
00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:40,640
others. 
Completely impeccable otters. 

318
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,520
How we put the machines on, how 
we collect the milk, how rapidly

319
00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:47,600
we chill the milk. 
If you do milk for 

320
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:51,480
pasteurization, they allow up to
two hours or even longer to get 

321
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,640
them up below 50°F. 
Now that milk comes out of the 

322
00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,080
cow at 99 to 100°. 
That's mammalian milk. 

323
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,080
We get the milk to 36° in one 
minute. 

324
00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,280
Wow. 
So 2 1/2 hours below 5036° in 

325
00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:06,680
one minute. 
Massive change. 

326
00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,680
We store the milk in a bulk tank
for 18 hours to collect a 

327
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,320
sample, to take it to our 
pathogen lab to assure that it 

328
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,440
has no pathogens. 
Listeria, E coli, Campylobacter,

329
00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:20,440
Salmonella are 0, none. 
And then the the call from 

330
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:22,680
counts are less than 10, which 
is the same number you achieve 

331
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:24,720
by pasteurization. 
But we don't pasteurize, we do 

332
00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:26,600
it by being clean. 
But that tells you how 

333
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:30,120
absolutely filthy milk that goes
to be pasteurized will be before

334
00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:31,680
it gets pasteurized, before it's
deadened. 

335
00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:34,520
And by the way, pasteurization 
does not remove the bacteria for

336
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:36,480
the milk. 
It just kills it, leaves it in 

337
00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:38,200
place. 
It's one of the reasons why it's

338
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:39,600
so allogenic. 
Interesting. 

339
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,040
Bacteria is not something your 
body wants in in its body. 

340
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,400
So just an incredible amount of 
of different things we do, 

341
00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:50,360
including milk only from our 
dairy, going to our Creamery 

342
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,320
into our bottles. 
That milk comes from the our 

343
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,720
dairies, our two dairies, not 50
different dairies combined 

344
00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:56,560
together. 
OK. 

345
00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:58,880
And that's the norm in the dairy
world. 

346
00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:00,520
Could be 100 dairies. 
Wow. 

347
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,760
Yeah, it's it's everybody in the
area that has a contract with 

348
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,640
that Creamery gets dumped into 
what big tank to be pasteurized.

349
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:08,079
And it must be. 
It should be. 

350
00:17:08,839 --> 00:17:10,440
So that's where the FDA is, 
right. 

351
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,599
But what they're wrong is 
they're failing to recognize the

352
00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:19,160
consumer desire and demand for 
ramen, for human consumption and

353
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,880
understand the technology and 
the standards to produce that 

354
00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:25,040
which is done differently. 
They refuse to talk about it. 

355
00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:26,480
They absolutely refuse to talk 
about it. 

356
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,520
So when you did the voluntary 
recall, it was kind of to get 

357
00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:33,920
them off your case and just it 
was like a way forward. 

358
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:35,480
It was a way to get through the 
process. 

359
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:37,480
Correct, Yeah. 
And so where do things stand 

360
00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,880
now? 
I know you mentioned that you 

361
00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,840
are no longer able to sell raw, 
all raw dairy or just raw cheese

362
00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,200
across state lines. 
All products are approved across

363
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:47,360
state lines everywhere right 
now. 

364
00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:49,960
Oh, OK, we're back to normal. 
So everything's everything's 

365
00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,040
normal. 
The only thing that's not normal

366
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:57,240
is that we are going to take the
FDA to federal court and make 

367
00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,440
them answer the questions they 
refuse to answer during the 

368
00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:01,240
recall. 
We asked them a bunch of 

369
00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:02,520
questions. 
They said you have too many 

370
00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,320
questions, said well, we have 
some answers we need. 

371
00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:10,000
Well, you're asking us to just 
destroy like a lot of, I'm sure 

372
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,240
like thousands and thousands of 
dollars in product. 

373
00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:13,880
And so I. 
It was $2,000,000. 

374
00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:15,200
Wow. 
Yeah, wow. 

375
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,760
I mean, that's very significant.
And definitely I would think 

376
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:20,480
that you would have the right to
ask questions about that. 

377
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:22,200
Correct. 
And they refused to answer 

378
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,000
answer questions that we 
proposed to them. 

379
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,280
So we have several questions we 
want from them. 

380
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:33,240
Like why did you demand that we 
should pasteurize our cheese and

381
00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:35,880
label it as raw like everybody 
else does? 

382
00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:37,240
Yeah, I really want to talk 
about. 

383
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,920
This that came out of that came 
out of Jane Choi's mouth and 

384
00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,160
she's an inspector from the FDA 
on our premises, witnessed by 

385
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,280
people, they demanded that we 
pasteurize our cheese and then 

386
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:49,840
label it as raw. 
And that's what's happening with

387
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,240
most, quote, raw cheese in 
grocery stores today. 

388
00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:57,320
People may be confused because 
we've had this Organic Valley 

389
00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:02,240
quote raw cheese on on our 
little table here next to Raw 

390
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,520
Farm Milk. 
Obviously different brand, but 

391
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,560
there's a reason it's here. 
Can you tell everyone what the 

392
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,520
deal is with Organic Valley Raw?
Cheese, raw cheddar, which I 

393
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,920
would think means has been 
processed or pasteurized or 

394
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,200
heated and it still contains its
bio actives which people want 

395
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,480
like a French cheese, the French
paradox, health building things.

396
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,120
The bio actives is the wonderful
thing. 

397
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,840
Do a chat to EBT and find out 
all the bio actives and 

398
00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:27,160
unprocessed milk. 
It's amazing. 

399
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,360
There's fifty of them. 
Incredibly powerful health 

400
00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:32,720
bringing product elements. 
This says raw cheddar cheese on 

401
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,360
the back. 
It says to achieve optimal 

402
00:19:36,360 --> 00:19:40,720
flavour we heat the milk to 
158°, which is pastorization. 

403
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:42,680
Yep. 
And by the way, let's not just 

404
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,280
pick on Organic Valley. 
Everybody else is doing it too 

405
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,400
in retail. 
And you guys are the only raw 

406
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:49,960
cheese brand that's actually 
raw. 

407
00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:55,120
The FDA told us we're the last 
ones, and we told them damn 

408
00:19:55,120 --> 00:19:57,640
right we're not changing because
it's fraud to do otherwise. 

409
00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:03,760
Our consumers understand. 
And would feel very betrayed and

410
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,360
misled if they were given a raw 
cheese that actually been 

411
00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:09,440
pasteurized. 
There's raw and there's 

412
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,800
pasteurized and raw that's truly
raw, has not been heated above 

413
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,560
body temperature and retains all
its bio actives which are so 

414
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,960
health giving so. 
Yeah, I mean, looking at this, 

415
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,120
it is so small. 
This. 

416
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:24,840
On the back of the label. 
I would never read this. 

417
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:29,800
I mean, I, I look at ingredients
and sometimes nutrition facts 

418
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,680
and that's kind of it. 
You would never, no one would 

419
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:33,640
ever notice this. 
It's not. 

420
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,040
Required that they actually say 
that statement on the back so 

421
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,520
they could have that's actually 
ethical that they did that. 

422
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:40,400
Thank you Organic Valley for 
saying that. 

423
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,400
But it's the same it is a 
contrasting conflict within its 

424
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:45,880
own label that in fact it's raw 
but pasteurized. 

425
00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:47,760
So it's it's very much a 
conflict. 

426
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,160
There are other producers that 
don't say that on the back, 

427
00:20:50,360 --> 00:20:52,240
which obviously would be more 
more misleading. 

428
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,160
But the bottom line is under the
federal code, the word raw is 

429
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:58,640
not defined. 
Pasteurized is, but not raw. 

430
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,160
And if you're not holding a 
pasteurizer's license with a 

431
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,200
permit and actually effectively 
pasteurizing, you can do 

432
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,440
whatever you want with the milk,
heat it up to whatever 

433
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:08,600
temperature you want. 
And it's not pasteurized because

434
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,160
it's not gone through that 
specific thing. 

435
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,800
So you can have raw meaning all 
kinds of things truly raw like 

436
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:15,960
ours or. 
Fake RAW. 

437
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,680
There's two kinds of raw milk 
here, one for humans, one for 

438
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:21,760
people, one for the pasteurizer.
You don't want to confuse the 

439
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,960
two. 
And in the skin care industry, 

440
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,520
it's kind of similar. 
There are these buzzwords like 

441
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:31,200
natural or non-toxic. 
No one is regulating that. 

442
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,560
No one's checking on that. 
You can have the most toxic 

443
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:38,040
products ever being marketed as 
completely safe and non-toxic, 

444
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:42,480
and it's completely legal. 
And we refuse to lie to our 

445
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,960
consumers. 
We are ethical, moral people and

446
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,760
we know what's in cheese. 
We know the bio actors are so 

447
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:50,960
important and they're all 
destroyed by pasteurization and 

448
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,000
heat. 
Those people are looking for 

449
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,160
unprocessed, whole natural foods
that have their bio actives in 

450
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,640
the raw dairy. 
That would not be a source of 

451
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,160
it. 
And there's absolutely no 

452
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,520
difference between this and 
regular cheese. 

453
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,280
Not that I'm aware of. 
That is aged 60 days, which is 

454
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,040
something you would do on the 
raw side, but the pasteurization

455
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,240
side, the 158° is definitely 
pasteurization. 

456
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,200
Any time you hit 145° you 
started to pasteurize. 

457
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,840
So what the FDA wanted, 
essentially, was for you to lie 

458
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:23,480
to your consumers and pasteurize
your cheese and label it as raw.

459
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,040
We will not do that. 
We will not lie. 

460
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,200
We will not commit fraud. 
We will not be misleading to our

461
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,320
consumers that we care for 
dearly, dearly. 

462
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:35,640
So clearly the FDA is not 
connected to consumers and I 

463
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,800
don't serve the FDAI serve 
people not not the processor. 

464
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,800
And how did they respond when 
you said that's not something 

465
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,080
we're interested in doing? 
They kind of had to back off 

466
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:49,160
because what we're doing is 100%
legal and appropriate by code, 

467
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,520
and their bullying wasn't going 
to work at raw farm. 

468
00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:57,920
What was that whole process like
internally for, for you, for 

469
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,960
both of your kids who work have 
important roles at Roth Farm and

470
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:03,440
just for for everyone in the 
company? 

471
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:04,840
What was that? 
What was it like going through? 

472
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:06,160
That you want the true back 
story. 

473
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,720
I would love it. 
I was in Portugal. 

474
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,800
I was in Portugal for three 
weeks with my wife. 

475
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,640
We'd planned I wasn't going to 
cancel this time with my wife in

476
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,120
Europe and so. 
Because this isn't like the 

477
00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:19,680
first time something like this 
has happened to you guys. 

478
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,160
You're not a stranger to dealing
with the FDA and having the FDA 

479
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,000
come after you. 
It's pretty rare that the state,

480
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,040
California does something. 
And when they do something, they

481
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,960
probably have something. 
And we've gotten kind of beyond 

482
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,720
that because of our testing. 
But the FDA, they're on a 

483
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,640
continuous warpath. 
They see us as a major threat 

484
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,280
because instead of killing, we 
test and kill. 

485
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,840
We have a live step, not a not a
kill step. 

486
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,000
And they absolutely cannot. 
They detest that concept. 

487
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:51,160
And I think that it's a tribute 
to our team how well it was 

488
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,680
handled because I was able to 
get an update every hour, every 

489
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:59,160
day or so for my son, 8 hours 
off because I was in Portugal. 

490
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,760
But the the credit goes to our 
team who handled it with extreme

491
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,680
professionalism because we knew 
who we served and we had the 

492
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,960
data and we asked the hard 
questions of the FDA that could 

493
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,560
not and would not respond to 
those questions, which really 

494
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:20,760
exposed the level of concern 
they had for their own position.

495
00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:23,720
They really, really aren't thin 
ice. 

496
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,560
And so they were trying to bully
us, trying to get us to do 

497
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,040
something from fear versus 
staying calm and asking for the 

498
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,040
data and they refused to respond
to us. 

499
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,840
So I think the professional 
response really saved the day 

500
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:37,560
because they weren't able to 
bully us. 

501
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,160
Yeah, because you guys brought 
it to the public. 

502
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:41,800
We know how to speak their 
language. 

503
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,040
We know the science probably 
better than some, but they're 

504
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,960
pretty good at this stuff. 
We had the test data, we had the

505
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,440
evidence, and we weren't. 
We weren't willing to capitulate

506
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,560
to their demands because we knew
the evidence very, very 

507
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:56,880
strongly. 
I want to give people some 

508
00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,560
context on just some food safety
information I have. 

509
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:05,160
So in 2025 alone, over 
20,000,000 lbs of blueberries 

510
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,360
were recalled across multiple 
states due to E coli, 

511
00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:11,960
Salmonella, and listeria. 
Yet culturally, no one seems to 

512
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,160
question blueberries in the same
way people question raw dairy. 

513
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:20,400
Why do you think that is? 
Today, CDI has uncounted 

514
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,320
hundreds of thousands of pounds 
of dried powdered milk. 

515
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,040
What's CDI? 
California Dairy Inc, it's a big

516
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,920
dairy processor in California. 
I have Dutch friends that are 

517
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,960
part of that product. 
Co-op are recalling massive 

518
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,040
amounts of dried powdered milk 
with salmonella in it. 

519
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,600
Do you see that in the news? 
Nope, it doesn't make news when 

520
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,840
it's pasteurized. 
So the bottom line is there's a 

521
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,120
cultural sensitivity to raw milk
that distinguishes it and 

522
00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:47,840
differentiates it from all other
foods. 

523
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,560
And it's they're on a warpath to
get rid of raw milk, even though

524
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,400
the trend lines are down for 
illnesses on raw milk, even 

525
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,440
though consumption is up. 
There's pub Med on that showing 

526
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,760
that the data on that. 
So they are infuriated by the 

527
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,680
fact that the public will not 
follow their commands and 

528
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,800
directions and thinking for 
themselves that food is medicine

529
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:15,160
and that trust your farmer and 
become educated and everybody 

530
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:16,800
you know. 
The FDA wants everybody to 

531
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,880
follow them blindly. 
When people are saying Nope, not

532
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,480
so much, I want the evidence, 
please show it to me and they 

533
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,040
won't give it to you. 
Do you think media coverage 

534
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,760
plays a role in the mass panic 
over raw milk? 

535
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:33,280
There's no question MSN has 
continuous scrolling every day 

536
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:35,600
of anti raw milk stuff. 
Every day. 

537
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,200
Every day thou shalt not drink 
raw milk. 

538
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,120
Geez. 
Women's Health Magazine, This, 

539
00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:44,400
that, and the other thing, all 
the experts who've never called 

540
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:45,960
me to talk about raw milk. 
Mm hmm. 

541
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,080
Who've never contacted Raw Milk 
Institute to look at the common 

542
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,920
standards we vetted 20 years ago
with the city of California. 

543
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,240
How did that CNN feature come 
out a few years ago? 

544
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,120
Because they called me around 
the same time a little shortly 

545
00:26:58,120 --> 00:27:03,160
after they contacted you. 
They totally like twisted and 

546
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,480
made me look really bad and 
uneducated. 

547
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:07,960
Just took, you know, cherry 
picked what I was saying but I'm

548
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,360
curious how yours went. 
We are fringe people to them, 

549
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,160
unfortunately, and even though 
we will tell them this is the 

550
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,720
science we use to understand the
gut microbiome, understand the 

551
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,520
immune system, understand the 
milk globule, the butter fat 

552
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:22,960
globule, which is such an 
incredible thing. 

553
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,200
It carries all the bio, carries 
60% of bio actors in the 

554
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,000
butterfat globule, 
unpasteurized. 

555
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,080
I have provided the science to 
them from their own databases, 

556
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,200
their own archives at the 
National Institutes of Health, 

557
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:38,760
the CDC, Pub Med. 
I've provided that to him. 50-60

558
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,480
studies you never hear about in 
the news. 

559
00:27:42,360 --> 00:27:46,160
You never hear about bio actives
destroyed by pasteurization. 

560
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,360
The Cornell study done in 2021, 
funded by the National Dairy 

561
00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:51,960
Council, they don't even want to
look at that science, which was 

562
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,640
not funded by by rawderry, it 
was funded by the pasteurized 

563
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,960
people. 
So science doesn't seem to 

564
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,360
matter. 
This is an issue about money, 

565
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,920
politics and pressure to fall in
line along with the rest of the 

566
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,080
herd and do what everybody else 
does. 

567
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,960
And that is not something we do 
as pioneers. 

568
00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:13,440
You try to find out what it is 
for people, consumers, humanity,

569
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,600
what's good for them and makes 
our product very, very unique. 

570
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,880
And other producers of raw milk 
too, that are trying to do the 

571
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,840
same thing, that are thriving, 
but under pressure from the FDA.

572
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,360
And I think a lot of people know
about the influence that the 

573
00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:29,760
Pharmaceutical industry has on 
the FDA, but can you also talk 

574
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:34,680
about the revolving door between
the dairy industry and the FDA 

575
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,600
and how these two are so closely
intertwined? 

576
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:43,400
Fundamentally, the Food, Drug 
and Cosmetic Act, the FDCA says 

577
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,760
you can make no claims on any 
food as medicine. 

578
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,880
If you do, you created a new 
drug and that's illegal. 

579
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,680
You only can do approved claims 
with the FDA and it cost 10s of 

580
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,680
millions of dollars in 10 or 15 
years to get an approval from 

581
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,360
the FDA. 
So you can't get an approval on 

582
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,160
a non patented food. 
It just doesn't happen. 

583
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,280
So food as medicine is a pretty 
radical thought because it 

584
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,360
doesn't make more money for 
pharmaceuticals. 

585
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,080
Now, on its face, it's like, oh,
you're talking about corruption 

586
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,960
and backdoor dealing. 
But there's a revolving door 

587
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,760
between the FDA that regulates 
pharmaceuticals and those that 

588
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,880
work in the FDA back and forth, 
back and forth, send the best 

589
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:22,800
from pharmaceuticals over the 
FDA to regulate the 

590
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,400
pharmaceuticals and keep the 
competition at Bay, the FDA. 

591
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,000
Makes sense because ultimately 
what they care about is profits,

592
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,160
and so they want to influence 
regulations in a way that 

593
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,240
benefits what what they're 
doing. 

594
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,880
It's profits over people. 
Bottom line is as a retired 

595
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,280
paramedic and seeing so many 
people that failing immune 

596
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,560
systems and sickness and stuff, 
I'm dedicated people, not not 

597
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,480
profits and and pharmaceuticals.
Now we need good 

598
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,560
pharmaceuticals. 
I'm not against that, but it 

599
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,120
should not be the fundamental 
thing we're doing to make people

600
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:54,760
healthy in America. 
Yeah. 

601
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,000
And so it makes sense to me that
that revolving door would also 

602
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:02,360
exist between the conventional 
dairy operations and the FDA. 

603
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,720
It does. 
The processors very much are 

604
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,120
very, very closely aligned with 
the FDA. 

605
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,640
I know because I went to the 
NCIMS conference in 2007 in 

606
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,240
Florida. 
And at that dairy conference is 

607
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,120
the National Conference of 
Interstate Milk shipments. 

608
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,600
The FDA sits in charge of the 
whole thing, but it's all the 

609
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,800
processors there. 
You said Denone there and 

610
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,480
Organic Valley and all the big 
processors are sitting there in 

611
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,640
the room deciding what they're 
going to do going forward. 

612
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,120
And that is the place where they
decide policy for pasteurized 

613
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,760
milk. 
And I, I actually made a speech 

614
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:35,800
there. 
I made a speech. 

615
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,320
How did that go? 
Raw milk. 

616
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,920
You could have heard a pin drop.
They didn't want to hear it. 

617
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:47,840
I was told by one of the people 
attending and said it was like 

618
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:52,680
being at the Vatican and 
screaming there is no God. 

619
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:57,400
Wow. 
That's how profound what I was 

620
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,920
saying impacted the people in 
the room. 

621
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,040
I say this is exactly what God 
made. 

622
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,680
And it's a very interesting 
thing how excuse for filth has 

623
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,840
dominated our culture where in 
the 1890s, we all know there was

624
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:14,960
a lot of people who died from 
raw milk, the filthy raw milk in

625
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,840
the 1800s. 
And at the same time, there was 

626
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:19,960
some high standards created by 
the American Association of 

627
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,240
Medical Milk Commissions, Dr. 
Coyte, and that was the 

628
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,600
certified raw milk, which 
Altadena was the last certified 

629
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,680
raw milk in California in 1999 
when I picked up after that. 

630
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:32,240
But the pasteurization was the 
end all be all to take care of 

631
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,640
filth. 
It's very clear that the culture

632
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,280
is so deeply entrenched in 
America and they're excusing of 

633
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:45,200
filth as part of the standards 
that it's almost, well, it is 

634
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:46,960
embarrassing for them to talk 
about the fact that you're 

635
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,280
excusing filth. 
And by the way, the side effect 

636
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,960
of that is losing 4 dairies a 
day in America because the 

637
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,440
prices are so low that they 
can't pay their bills. 

638
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:01,120
What's interesting is as a 
scientist, there are 

639
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,880
technologies to do better than 
pasteurization called HPP. 

640
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,520
Cold press actually saves about 
60 to 70% of these bio actives 

641
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,360
that are so important. 
And it's very effective if you 

642
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,600
pay the farmer better to do a 
cleaner job because it'll get 

643
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:16,640
rid of pathogens, but it won't 
get rid of dirt. 

644
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,280
So pasteurization does does 
that. 

645
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:20,720
So you actually have to pay the 
farmers more. 

646
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,400
The processors know this. 
The California Milk Advisory 

647
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,240
Board got milk. 
People know this. 

648
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,440
We've had long talks about 
innovating to do better for 

649
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,000
pasteurization and their 
farmers, they drag their feet. 

650
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,360
They say they want to do it. 
God bless them for doing that, 

651
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,040
but they're not doing it. 
There's other technologies come 

652
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,720
out of Europe, UV, there's 
ultrasound. 

653
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,520
There's all kinds of ultrasound 
plus electricity that actually 

654
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,640
keep pathogens. 
They check pathogens, but they 

655
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:51,400
keep these bio actives intact. 
So their failure to innovate is 

656
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:55,120
also at their feet. 
The pasteurization is an 18th 

657
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,080
century solution to an 18th 
century problem. 

658
00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:58,920
Doctor Bruce German. 
Not not. 

659
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,040
That's not me saying that that's
exactly what it is. 

660
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,200
We could do better. 
We put men on the moon and we 

661
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,520
know about clean water. 
We know about healthy cows. 

662
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,440
We can have the technology to 
test and know that stuff. 

663
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,760
So the bottom line is I put it 
to their feet, failure to 

664
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,920
innovate for them. 
Talk to us about the epidemic of

665
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,880
pasteurization intolerance. 
A lot of people call it lactose 

666
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,720
intolerance, but I know you've 
referred to it as pasteurization

667
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,360
intolerance. 
Can you explain what you mean by

668
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,520
that? 
We have a very interesting 

669
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:31,160
survey we're doing and we even 
came up with AQR code, which is 

670
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:35,880
pretty cool. 
And we had all of our raw milk 

671
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,760
consumers take that survey and 
it's done by the Raw Milk 

672
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,880
Institute. 
And what it's doing is it 

673
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,240
actually is drawing data from 
people and their experience 

674
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:51,920
consuming raw milk. 
What we found is raw milk is non

675
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,520
allergenic. 
Raw milk is generally very easy 

676
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,800
to consume for most everybody, 
including black people and Asian

677
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:02,640
people, which are generally been
the non lactase persistence gene

678
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,160
people, they have no problem. 
So raw milk is good for 

679
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,880
everybody, just like breast milk
is good for all babies. 

680
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,239
Raw milk is good for all adults 
and teenagers in every part of 

681
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,800
life. 
And that's because raw milk has 

682
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,560
all the elements in it to digest
itself. 

683
00:34:17,159 --> 00:34:20,880
If it gets warm, it falls apart.
It creates its own lactase, the 

684
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,440
presence of lactose, the the 
digestive enzymes are there. 

685
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,719
Bacteria that make the digestive
enzymes are there. 

686
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:32,400
It's a whole food. 
And so we call it pasteurization

687
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,199
intolerance, not lactose 
intolerance. 

688
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,719
Time and time and time again, 
pasteurization intolerance is 

689
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:39,880
shown to be true. 
And this study is actually going

690
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,280
to draw that forward. 
And we think that maybe Rutgers 

691
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,960
University is going to do the 
actual definitive investigation 

692
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,719
with their pH DS there. 
Doctor Joe Heckman's leading 

693
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,280
some of that work, but it's 
going to be a multi centre study

694
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,880
because our friends in Canada, 
they cannot study raw milk 

695
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:57,240
because raw milk's illegal 
there. 

696
00:34:57,240 --> 00:34:59,120
They will not let them do any 
university research. 

697
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,560
So we're doing this in 
collaboration with Canada and 

698
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,880
Kata CADA, which is a Canadian 
alliance of dairy that are 

699
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:07,440
trying to get raw milk legalized
in Canada. 

700
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,520
And they're basically saying so 
many of us cannot digest 

701
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:15,120
pasteurized milk and are highly 
allergenic to it, that we need 

702
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:16,520
raw milk. 
And here are the standards we 

703
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,560
want to use. 
Bethany, here's something that 

704
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,120
nobody's heard and I'll be the 
first one to say it. 

705
00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:25,760
Did you know that pasteurized 
milk is so allergenic that it 

706
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,520
causes death? 
What do you mean by that? 

707
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,200
The National Registry for 
Allergic Foods or National 

708
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,080
Allergy Registry be 15 people in
the last three to four years 

709
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:37,840
have died from allergies to 
pasteurized milk. 

710
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:40,480
Wow, it structurally has a 
problem. 

711
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,200
Like drink it. 
Drink it. 

712
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:45,560
It results in their death. 
Permix don't get there fast 

713
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,680
enough. 
Epinephrine you die severely 

714
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:50,800
allergic responses to 
pasteurized milk. 

715
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,720
Which anaphylactic kind of 
reaction? 

716
00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:55,000
Yes, severe anaphylaxis and 
septic shock. 

717
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,360
Wow. 
Allergic reactions which end up 

718
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,000
in death. 
I actually didn't know that was 

719
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:01,600
possible to have that severe 
over reaction. 

720
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,560
Look it up yourself, ChatGPT it.
Look at the national registry of

721
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,320
allergic reactions or allergic 
death. 15 people have died the 

722
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:10,520
last couple years. 
Geez. 

723
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,880
My whole point is it's not a 
secret at the FDA website. 

724
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,520
The most allergenic food in 
America is pasteurized milk, not

725
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,600
raw milk. 
Raw milk is not allergenic. 

726
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:19,760
Yeah, it's not even the same 
food. 

727
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,920
Nope. 
When you don't have bioactives, 

728
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,080
we don't have the raw whey 
protein which stabilizes mast 

729
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,240
cells, which keeps the histamine
responsible response. 

730
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,400
It doesn't have the same kind of
cytokine storing that happens 

731
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,880
and people that have Cerealia, 
it's just a different food. 

732
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:34,920
It's not allergenic. 
It tastes good and it's easy to 

733
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,480
digest. 
So we're looking at some of 

734
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,880
these first QR code responses 
were coming back. 

735
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,040
A lot of people said I'm 
allergic to pasteurized milk. 

736
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,520
A lot of people said I just 
can't drink pasteurized milk. 

737
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,520
It's so hard gas producing 
cramping pain. 

738
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,520
Although I'm not lactose 
intolerance, I have Mal 

739
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,320
digestion from these pasteurized
proteins. 

740
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,960
Yeah, because it's not milk. 
It's not milk anymore, no. 

741
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,400
So the science, we're trying to 
bring the science forward so 

742
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,760
that data can speak for the 
consumers directly, not Mark 

743
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,080
McAfee talking about how great 
raw milk is. 

744
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,680
We're letting the science 
actually do that study and do 

745
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,960
that testing and research is 
going to be very clear on that. 

746
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,280
For anyone who is super curious 
about trying raw milk, but maybe

747
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,280
they still have some 
reservations, can you give us 

748
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,040
your best sales pitch for why 
everybody should be drinking raw

749
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,800
milk? 
If you have a source of reliable

750
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,000
raw milk, you should be drinking
it. 

751
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,800
If you don't have a source, find
a source or get your source 

752
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:35,360
trained. 
But I would not suggest you go 

753
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,760
drinking raw milk intended for 
pasteurization because you could

754
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,360
get sick. 
So know your source. 

755
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:41,720
High standards, very, very 
important. 

756
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:43,840
Why would you want to consume 
raw milk? 

757
00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:46,880
Well, it's the first food of 
life. 

758
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,880
When you're born as a baby, you 
don't have a digestive tract 

759
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,320
that's mature. 
You don't have a microbiome 

760
00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:57,200
that's 80% of your immune system
that's been developed. 

761
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,320
What does raw milk, colostrum 
and colostrum and raw milk do? 

762
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,080
It seeds into the gut. 
It feeds the gut with lactose 

763
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:06,320
and does all those wonderful 
things to create the gut 

764
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,040
microbiome in the mucosal lining
that lines your intestines, 

765
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,080
which forms 80% of your immune 
system. 

766
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,840
Think about COVID. 
Those that were immune 

767
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:16,920
compromised got really sick or 
died. 

768
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,000
Do you want to be immune 
compromised? 

769
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,440
What's the one food that really 
builds back the immune system 

770
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,000
more than any other food? 
The food that built it the at 

771
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,440
the first place in life and 
that's been known for 12,000 

772
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,280
years for mankind, but it's been
suppressed for the last 100 

773
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,400
years. 
So people will recognize the 

774
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,680
ancient wisdom of raw milk and 
the bio actives and the whole 

775
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,560
fats and those things that are 
literally immune cells carrying 

776
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,560
the goodness from a cow to a 
human are there and present and 

777
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,240
acting are wanting and demanding
it. 

778
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:51,000
And so post COVID, it's been 
kind of an enlightenment period.

779
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:52,880
People have said, wait a minute,
wake up. 

780
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,680
I want some facts. 
Not so fast. 

781
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:57,840
Back off on all the shots and 
stuff. 

782
00:38:58,120 --> 00:38:59,880
Before I get a shot, I want to 
know more. 

783
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,640
And by the way, I want to know 
what I can do without that shot,

784
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,200
right? 
And what can I do to prepare 

785
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,280
myself for the next round of 
problems that are happening. 

786
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,120
People saying raw milk and whole
food nutrition are where it's at

787
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:13,720
in terms of building that gut 
microbiome. 

788
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,440
And I'm sure that you have a lot
of stories of customers over the

789
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,840
years, friends and family, 
people who have benefited from 

790
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:22,600
raw milk. 
Can you share some of those? 

791
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,200
I love the one that happened 
this morning at our local 

792
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,400
Organic Roots. 
OK, what happened? 

793
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,120
I was in there with Jamie and we
were going over the dairy case 

794
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:31,320
and we were looking for that 
cheese. 

795
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,200
It wasn't really raw cheese, but
they said it was. 

796
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,080
And we were talking to the dairy
case guy who didn't know. 

797
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,480
And the gal walked up to me and 
introduced myself from Raw Farm 

798
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,160
and she was wearing the organic 
roots. 

799
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:47,200
She goes, Oh my gosh, your mark 
from I said, yeah, you don't 

800
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:48,400
know what you've done for my 
son. 

801
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:52,600
He had severe asthma and now 
he's fine. 

802
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:55,320
Wow. 
Her son has completely 

803
00:39:55,320 --> 00:40:00,040
transformed himself by no longer
suffering asthma, which kills 13

804
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,240
people every day. 
Most of them are children in a 

805
00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:05,520
day In America, that's every two
hours a child dies in American. 

806
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:10,040
That's not ER, that's dead. 
But yet the European studies are

807
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,080
so profound that raw milk 
consumption decreases asthma 

808
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,200
dramatically, along with colds, 
flu, ear infections and fever. 

809
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:18,680
That's all immune stuff. 
So if you got a kid in a 

810
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:20,600
daycare, they better be on raw 
milk because they're the one 

811
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:21,880
that going to come home and not 
be sick. 

812
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,240
Or if they sick, they're really 
mildly sick and get over it 

813
00:40:24,240 --> 00:40:25,880
quick when everybody else is out
for a week. 

814
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,040
So raw milk changes the gut 
microbiome, which is 80% of the 

815
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,640
immune system, profoundly 
because the bio actives are 

816
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:33,560
there. 
That's a message I want 

817
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:35,080
everybody to hear loud and 
clear. 

818
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:38,640
That's incredible. 
That's, it's, it's powerful, 

819
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:40,640
it's profound. 
It's it's a gift from another 

820
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,640
nature, God himself, that this 
is an evolutionary thing, that 

821
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:48,080
it created this food that we can
thrive on that's being decimated

822
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,040
by pasteurization and 
industrialization. 

823
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:55,240
So those of us in California are
blessed that we can easily find 

824
00:40:55,240 --> 00:40:58,160
raw farm products in in most 
health stores. 

825
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:02,520
What do you suggest for people 
who live in a state where raw 

826
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,480
farm isn't available? 
What's a good way to try to find

827
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,800
a quality, trusted raw milk 
source and talk about which 

828
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:10,840
states which other states you 
can find your products to? 

829
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,720
Well, California's the only 
state you can find our raw dairy

830
00:41:13,720 --> 00:41:15,600
products. 
The raw cheese can be found 

831
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,920
through most of the southern 
states, Texas, Florida, New 

832
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:22,560
Mexico, all the sprout stores. 
That's the raw cheese, but not 

833
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,560
the fluid milk and stuff. 
What I would recommend is first 

834
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:29,920
go to therawmilkinstitute.org. 
Look for a listed farmer who 

835
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:31,760
uses practices much similar to 
ours. 

836
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:33,840
They report their data. 
You can actually see their food 

837
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,120
safety plan and see their 
bacteria counts from recent 

838
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,960
testing right now. 
So you can look through the 

839
00:41:39,240 --> 00:41:41,440
pretty roses and white picket 
fences and know what's going 

840
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:43,360
inside the cow and inside the 
milk because you see the 

841
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:46,720
bacteria counts. 
Those farmers are trained and 

842
00:41:46,720 --> 00:41:50,280
they actually submit their, 
their, their CCPs or SSO PS 

843
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,640
their whole food safety plan and
their bacteria counts every 

844
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,080
month and are certified by the 
Raw Milk Institute. 

845
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:57,760
That'd be my first way to go. 
Then I'm going to go to 

846
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,560
realmilk.com and look for the 
local raw milk producer that 

847
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:02,560
specializes in human 
consumption, raw milk. 

848
00:42:02,720 --> 00:42:04,800
And most of those people have 
their act act together, but I 

849
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:06,280
can't speak for them because I 
don't know them. 

850
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,120
And after that, then it's going 
to be kind of Wild West. 

851
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:12,840
It's kind of like you got to 
know your farmer and know a lot 

852
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,320
about raw milk. 
And if you want to know a lot 

853
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:19,200
about raw milk, I would say go 
to rawmilkinstitute.org and goes

854
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:20,960
to the Ramak Farmer training 
program. 

855
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,520
Takes 4 hours. 
There's a whole PowerPoint that 

856
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:27,000
talks about biofilms and, and 
tuberculosis and brucellosis. 

857
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,280
It talks about E coli, it talks 
about pathogens, it talks about 

858
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,400
pathogen load and hosts and all 
these kind of stuff. 

859
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,280
That's the training that we 
provide farmers for free. 

860
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,280
So become a trained consumer. 
If you if you don't have a 

861
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:40,080
trained farmer, you're going to 
have to become well informed 

862
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:44,720
yourself because the FDA is 
right when it comes to raw milk 

863
00:42:44,720 --> 00:42:48,320
intended for pasteurization. 
Their standards suck and they're

864
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,440
dirty and you got to watch your 
PS and QS because if you have a 

865
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,120
compromised immune system you 
can very easily get very sick. 

866
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:58,240
What would an ideal future look 
like for raw dairy in the US? 

867
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,840
Then it was acknowledged and the
standards were recognized and 

868
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:08,200
that there will be a little bit 
of investment at the FDACDC and 

869
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,760
NIH in raw milk and the research
behind it. 

870
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,080
And it's with safety systems. 
We could do phenomenal amount of

871
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:18,480
work for really cheap. 
But the NIH has blocked all 

872
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,040
funding to anything raw, any raw
dairy. 

873
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:22,920
We've been back. 
We've asked them, they said 

874
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,280
because the FDA does not 
acknowledge raw milk as a human 

875
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:27,120
consumption, food has to be 
pasteurized. 

876
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:31,320
So the NIH has blocked literally
$100 million of access we could 

877
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:35,000
have for food safety development
and research. 

878
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,160
And that is a crime, in my 
opinion, against our humanity 

879
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:45,640
and a complete endorsement of 
pasteurization, which creates 

880
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,680
very highly allergenic foods. 
It's hard to digest and also 

881
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:51,320
pharmaceuticals. 
And that's pretty sad. 

882
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:53,600
So we can do a whole lot better 
here in America. 

883
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,920
We can really do a lot better. 
And we can start off by leading.

884
00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:00,520
And I will say this, they may 
have the guns and the money, but

885
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:02,720
I got the truth And the moms, 
that's right. 

886
00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:08,200
And the bottom line is you build
a huge market and at at some 

887
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,720
point is a tilting and there's a
there's a tipping point at which

888
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,600
our voices and our dollar voting
is so much more powerful than 

889
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,360
what they're trying to yap at 
us. 

890
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,560
A cute little story may have 
told it earlier, but it's worth 

891
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,440
telling again. 
Last year, one of our trucks is 

892
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:26,600
going through a weigh station in
Santa Barbara and going through 

893
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:28,640
the weigh station, cleared the 
weigh station, kept on going, 

894
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,560
delivering milk to stores. 
And ACHP officer came screaming 

895
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:33,600
up behind with the lights and 
said stop, stop, stop. 

896
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:35,560
And then our guy said, oh, I got
a ticket. 

897
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,360
There's something going on here,
the officer said, is there any 

898
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:39,520
way you could sell me some raw 
milk? 

899
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,120
And they had a bunch of officers
at that weigh station that 

900
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:45,840
wanted a cheaper access. 
And now we have a weigh station 

901
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,640
with with an ice chest there. 
And I think it's a store, a 

902
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:52,320
little refrigeration area where 
there's a Visa card on for 

903
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:54,960
delivery of that milk every week
to this, the CHP office that 

904
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:58,240
work for us in California. 
So that's the kind of cool thing

905
00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:01,320
that's happening in terms of the
evolution of the brand to where 

906
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:05,040
our voices become so big and so 
loud and so profoundly true 

907
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,880
based on hard science, based on 
ethical farming practices and 

908
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:14,080
high standards, that the crying 
wolf from the FDA becomes a 

909
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,160
crying wolf. 
And it's already a lot of 

910
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:18,720
influencers are saying don't 
believe them, run the other way,

911
00:45:18,720 --> 00:45:21,000
it's safer. 
And unfortunately, it's becoming

912
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:22,200
true. 
It's really true. 

913
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:24,920
And they need to open their 
minds. 

914
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,120
They need to open their culture 
of belief and understand that 

915
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:31,000
clean raw milk, this low risk is
possible. 

916
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,400
They just to learn that need to 
go back to school to understand 

917
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,840
that. 
I totally agree and I have 

918
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,800
really seen people rally around 
you guys, especially in these 

919
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:42,320
last few months, which leads me 
to my last question. 

920
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:44,240
I want to hear about camping 
with the cows. 

921
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,000
You guys just had this 
incredible event with I think 

922
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,040
you said 1400 people, 1400 
people came out to your farm, 

923
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:53,440
spent the night. 
I saw like a concert there. 

924
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:54,720
Like, tell us about it, what 
happened? 

925
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,040
The beauty of the bed head and 
the day after is awesome. 

926
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,440
I love it. 
True beauty comes forward, 1400 

927
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:01,680
people. 
It's the sixth time we've held 

928
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:02,600
this. 
It's 12 years. 

929
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:06,720
Every other year we had sixty, 
well, excuse me, 75 influencers,

930
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:09,680
which was before we had 6 or 7 
two years ago. 

931
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,480
And it was a celebration of a 
movement more than even a brand.

932
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,560
We had other people wanting to 
celebrate with us and affiliate 

933
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:18,680
with us and be connected with us
because of the goodness we're 

934
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,400
we're doing. 
And it was all positive. 

935
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:26,200
It was all human to human 
positive energy. 

936
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,000
When you've got 100 people 
around a big bonfire and just 

937
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:33,720
staring at the bonfire holding 
their children, it's powerful. 

938
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:38,560
That's amazing, yeah. 
Moon above us and stars above 

939
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:40,520
us. 
And it was really, really 

940
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:42,120
beautiful. 
Excuse me for being emotional, 

941
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:43,880
but it's it's not deep. 
Yeah, yeah. 

942
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,200
And this just happened like like
a week ago, I think. 

943
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:49,520
I hope to go sometime in the 
future. 

944
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:51,640
Well, you were always, you're 
our VIP. 

945
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,200
But it was a movement. 
And people came from England, 

946
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:57,920
Australia, Canada. 
Yeah, people from across the 

947
00:46:57,920 --> 00:46:59,360
United States. 
We had a band from Texas. 

948
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:02,680
My my credit goes, the credit 
goes to my daughter Kaylee, who 

949
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,160
coordinated it take her a year 
to put together my son Aaron, 

950
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:07,000
who coordinated and the rest of 
the team that put it all 

951
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,960
together. 
But it was basically the content

952
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,400
coming out of that was so 
powerful with all the human 

953
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,520
stories being created. 
It it it just moves me. 

954
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:20,920
You see my paramedic tears, but 
it's so true because. 

955
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,920
Well, it looked really special. 
I mean just as a bystander 

956
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:26,520
looking at photos and videos. 
Online you got me triggered on 

957
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:28,400
the last call. 
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to do 

958
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:29,400
that. 
That's OK, because. 

959
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:32,880
It's, but I I love that your 
passion came out because you are

960
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,920
a very passionate guy. 
You're the real deal. 

961
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:38,360
You truly believe in what you're
doing, and I think that's very 

962
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,480
evident in the work that you do.
See the impact and purpose on 

963
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,520
people. 
And I think there's to be no 

964
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:46,920
greater gift to a person's life 
and to see good impact and 

965
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:50,320
purpose on people, just as you 
have with your pastor bird and 

966
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:52,600
things you've done with your 
your chicken, which is eating 

967
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,600
the right stuff and sunshine and
bugs and all that stuff. 

968
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,800
I mean, we're on the same path 
together here with real food for

969
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,240
people who want to be healthy. 
Mark, you've been doing this a 

970
00:48:01,240 --> 00:48:03,960
long time now. 
You've been in this fight for a 

971
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:07,120
long time. 
And I think we're starting to 

972
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:11,760
see the tides change a bit in 
our country with health. 

973
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:16,600
And like you said, the voices 
that are wanting to go back to a

974
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,440
more ancestral way of living and
eating are getting louder and 

975
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:22,080
louder and becoming more and 
more difficult to ignore. 

976
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:28,200
What has it felt like to be in 
this battle for so many years 

977
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:32,000
and to kind of see these changes
that you're working towards 

978
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:35,720
start to come to fruition? 
So 27 years, that's a long time.

979
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:40,360
At first it was a niche, so we 
didn't threaten anybody because 

980
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,400
it was just a small group of 
people that wanted their raw 

981
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,440
milk at Altadena and you know, 
Westnet, Price and just the 

982
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,080
basics, right? 
Well, now we're a threat. 

983
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:53,720
When CHPCHP officers pull you 
over and want raw milk off your 

984
00:48:53,720 --> 00:48:55,920
truck, you know you've come 
someplace, right? 

985
00:48:56,240 --> 00:48:59,080
So my whole point is we're 
becoming mainstream, which means

986
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:00,640
you're measurable and you're a 
threat. 

987
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:03,880
You're taking dollar votes. 
And you have an important voice.

988
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,400
You have an important voice 
that's being heard, and it's 

989
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:08,000
grounded in some serious 
science. 

990
00:49:08,240 --> 00:49:12,800
The microbiome, which is really 
coming into its own now, they 

991
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:15,480
got microbiomes really coming 
along in terms of its 

992
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:17,000
understanding, its impact on 
health. 

993
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:24,080
What's it feel like? 
It feels like when what you're 

994
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:27,520
saying shakes your opposition, 
you're on the right path. 

995
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,920
Very famous person said that, 
and I'll say it instead. 

996
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:37,120
But the bottom line is that 
we're doing the right things for

997
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:41,440
the right people. 
And I don't really care what the

998
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,920
forces do because I've got the 
moms. 

999
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:49,000
And the truth that sustains me 
more than anything is to have a 

1000
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:53,480
mom from organic roots tell me 
that her son's asthma has gone 

1001
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:55,680
away. 
That's very powerful to me. 

1002
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:57,560
That's the greatest payment I 
can receive. 

1003
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:01,120
And I think that's a payment 
missing in dairymen across 

1004
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:04,920
America because you're bankrupt 
and you don't know your 

1005
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:07,080
customers. 
It's one of the highest suicide 

1006
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:10,240
rates going. 
But raw dairy get paid well 

1007
00:50:10,240 --> 00:50:12,680
because you set your own price 
and everybody's hugging and say 

1008
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:14,840
thank you, thank you for how 
great your raw milk is. 

1009
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:19,200
The opposite. 
So it will save the dairymen 

1010
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,760
that wants to embrace high 
standards and consumers 

1011
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:26,120
economically and socio 
economically. 

1012
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,840
So that's a beautiful thing for 
dairies, for the consumers, it's

1013
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:33,000
clear they want more and more 
because it does such great 

1014
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:38,160
things for them. 
So my feeling is it's a mountain

1015
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:40,880
to climb, it's a mountain to 
move, it's a mountain to die on 

1016
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:43,640
because of the purpose behind 
it. 

1017
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,640
And it's my passion comes from 
those paramedic calls and those 

1018
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:51,280
kids and the fact that this 
solves that question. 

1019
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:55,280
There's a major question about 
pasteurized milk in America as 

1020
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:58,000
seen by the decline in 
consumption across the board. 

1021
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:02,360
We provide a solution and we 
provide that solution 

1022
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:04,160
unselfishly to other farmers as 
well. 

1023
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:08,200
So we consider this a movement 
that's for humanity and people, 

1024
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:10,200
not a processor or 
pharmaceuticals. 

1025
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:14,680
They have a place. 
They have a place, but their 

1026
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:18,200
place is not in the preventative
food sector that we are, where 

1027
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:20,720
food is medicine, preventing 
disease, that people really, 

1028
00:51:20,720 --> 00:51:22,880
really thrive when consuming 
whole food nutrition. 

1029
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:28,080
Mic drop, that was awesome. 
So grateful for you Mark. 

1030
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:31,760
Where can people support Raw 
Farm and follow along with with 

1031
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:35,040
Raw Farm Online? 
Social platforms give us a big 

1032
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:37,640
heart. 
Come visit us, come do the tour.

1033
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:41,080
I would say the greatest thing 
you can do for us and other raw 

1034
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:46,520
farms, people doing raw and in 
need to raw dairy, that's the 

1035
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,560
greatest thing you can do is you
know somebody that's short of 

1036
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:51,800
breath. 
Do you know somebody that has 

1037
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:54,600
really bad eczema? 
Somebody's going through the 

1038
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:58,320
throes of Crohn's disease, 
celiac, They need to know about 

1039
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:03,760
kefir and whole food nutrition. 
Bring a friend to food, real 

1040
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,000
food. 
Bring a friend to real food. 

1041
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:08,520
I think that's the greatest 
thing you can do to support what

1042
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:11,520
we're doing because that sends 
the message the food is medicine

1043
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:13,080
and that's the place we need to 
go in the future. 

1044
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:15,440
Totally agree. 
Thanks so much, Mark. 

1045
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:17,240
You're welcome. 
Good job.