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Welcome to Grounded Wellness, 
your go to podcast for 

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simplified and trusted 
information on how to live a 

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more non-toxic and holistic 
life. 

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We're your hosts. 
I'm Bethany McDaniel, founder of

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primarily pure biohacking 
enthusiast and mom of three. 

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And I'm Courtney O'Connor, 
holistic esthetician with over 

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15 years experience in the 
healing power of touch and 

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holistic skin care rituals. 
I am so excited to welcome 

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today's guest, Ashley Van 
Houten. 

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Ashley is a passionate an 
advocate for health and 

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nutrition, known for her 
expertise in organ meats, animal

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based protein, and building 
muscle. 

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As a certified health coach, 
author and speaker, Ashley has 

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dedicated her career to 
educating others about the 

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benefits of nutrient dense foods
and the power of strength 

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training. 
This conversation is full of 

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insights into nourishing our 
bodies and redefining our 

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relationship with food. 
Let's dig in. 

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Ashley, thank you so much for 
traveling all the way from 

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Canada to be here at the farm 
today. 

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I'm so, so excited to have you 
here. 

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It is my pleasure and it's long 
overdue. 

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I've been to come for a long 
time, so I'm very happy to be 

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here. 
Thank you. 

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We have been in touch for so 
many years and I was just 

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telling my team like you have 
been such an amazing supporter 

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of Primary Pure since like the 
very early days. 

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Yeah, Thank you. 
I appreciate it. 

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I mean, everything that you're 
doing is, is so in line with the

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stuff that I'm passionate about 
and the stuff that I'm doing 

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too. 
And congratulations, by the way,

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just on the growth and even on 
doing the podcast, which I know 

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personally is a ton of work, but
I love what you're doing and I, 

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yeah, I've just been super happy
to be a part of it. 

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Thank you and likewise love 
everything that you're doing and

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the message that you are putting
out there into the mainstream 

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that I think is slowly getting 
more and more adopted by the 

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masses. 
You've been, you've been 

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shouting this message tirelessly
for so long. 

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So cannot wait for our audience 
to hear your expertise on organ 

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meats and strength training and 
animal based protein and all the

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things. 
Let's go ahead and kick this off

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with a 2 minute elevator pitch 
on why more people need to adopt

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organ meats in their diets. 
I'm not very good at 2 minute 

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any. 
If you go a little over, that's 

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time. 
You, you can cut me off anytime 

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you want. 
I, you know, I'm not somebody 

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I've learned through my career. 
I'm not somebody who's trying to

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really convince anybody of 
anything. 

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I think when people are ready, 
they're going to come to you. 

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So I'm not the person who's 
going to try to get, you know, 

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your vegan friend to eat liver. 
I think that's a bridge too far.

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But I will say that the vast 
majority of us still eat animal 

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products, and we recognize that 
it's an important and healthy 

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part of our diet. 
And so if you are one of those 

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people wherever on the spectrum 
you are, maybe you love to eat 

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meat, maybe you're trying to eat
less, but you just recognize 

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that it's an important part of 
your diet. 

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I believe that the best way to 
to really embody that is to eat 

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meat in a way that is as 
sustainable and ethical and 

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thoughtful and mindful and then 
healthy as possible. 

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And the truth of the matter is 
organ meats are the most 

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nutrient dense foods on the 
planet. 

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They're the most bio 
bioavailable for human beings. 

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And so if you're going to eat 
meat, and I think most of us 

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should, you should be 
incorporating organ meats 

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because it's good for you. 
Why do you think there's so much

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resistance around this idea of 
eating organ meats, even for 

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people who are aware of the 
health benefits and the 

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nutrition I have? 
So many thoughts about that. 

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I could go in so many different 
directions, but I mean, there's 

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there's a real historical reason
why they've fallen out of favor 

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and I can get into detail about 
that if you want. 

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I think that as a culture in 
North America, certainly we are 

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very used to our food being 
hyper palatable, which is a 

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problem in itself. 
You know, food is meant to be 

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enjoyed and it should taste 
good, but there's a difference 

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between delicious, nourishing 
food and really, really hyper 

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palatable food that makes you 
just kind of eat mindlessly. 

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And that's been artificially 
programmed for that purpose. 

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Exactly. 
It doesn't taste like anything 

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that you'd ever eat in the 
history of humanity. 

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So we're very used to food 
tasting too good in essence, in 

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some cases. 
So that's a bit of a problem. 

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And that's, that's sort of at 
worst, but at best, we're also 

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even those of us who are trying 
our best to eat healthy, we're 

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very used to food tasting also 
quite bland and, and 

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homogeneous. 
So, you know, those of us who 

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are eating our our lean chicken 
breasts and our salmon with the 

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skin off and just with the side 
of vegetables, you know, we want

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the food to taste really kind of
basic and really kind of simple.

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And so anything that tastes 
unlike that, I think, and maybe 

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there's an instinctive 
biological component to where 

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things that are different you 
see as being scary. 

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So this is something unfamiliar,
it's something new. 

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It has a stronger taste. 
That's bad. 

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I think our culture in 
particular too loves these these

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more bland foods. 
Like if you think about other 

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cultures and the foods. 
That they eat there's. 

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They do so many unique things 
with the seasonings, the spices,

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like there's, there's so much 
more flavor there. 

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But for whatever reason, in 
America, there's this guy. 

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We're not a. 
Boring here and that's one thing

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that's come out when I wrote the
first book it takes guts is so 

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many people from other cultures 
and even Americans who just grew

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up eating maybe their their 
families cuisine or cultural 

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cuisine are like this is not new
to me. 

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This is not weird to me. 
This is what we do. 

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So really we're kind of in the 
minority to not eat these types 

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of foods. 
But you know, in my practice 

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working with, with women, 
coaching and helping to, to 

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helping people to find their 
ideal diet, I still have a lot 

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of women who will eat meat, but 
they don't want to eat meat on 

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the bone. 
They don't want to eat meat with

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skin on it. 
They don't want to eat dark meat

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because they've been told all of
these things about how it's 

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unhealthy and it's, it's 
heartbreaking because you're 

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missing, you're missing so much,
not only taste wise, but also 

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health wise. 
So yeah, I mean, I could, I 

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could go on. 
Talk to me about the historical 

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component that you touched on. 
Yeah. 

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So I think one of the sort of 
biggest pieces and why organ 

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meats have fallen out of favor 
is, I mean, it really started 

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like with the Industrial 
revolution. 

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It started with modern 
agricultural practices and these

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sort of large scale 
slaughterhouses and mass 

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production of and, and then 
harvesting of animals. 

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When that switch started 
happening from, you know, local 

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farmers and smaller butcher 
shops and, and the kind of, you 

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know, just sort of smaller, more
intimate connection to our food,

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it was happening on such a 
larger scale that it was easier 

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to get the sort of the muscle 
meats, the basic cuts that we're

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we're used to. 
And the reality is organ meats 

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are more sensitive. 
So if we're talking about liver,

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brain sweetbreads, all these 
delicious things that we can get

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into later, they tend to be 
harder to transport, harder to 

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store. 
They're just a little bit more 

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delicate. 
So it became more of a hassle to

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kind of get these. 
Like they go bad more quickly. 

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Potentially, but it's, it's even
literally just the tissue, like 

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if you think we're probably 
going to get a little maybe 

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graphic on this podcast, but if 
you think about what a brain is 

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versus like a, a hunk of, of 
steak, it's literally a more 

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delicate cut. 
So it just takes a little bit 

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more care and effort and work 
to. 

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And again, if you're you're 
putting them on a truck and 

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transporting them across the 
country instead of maybe getting

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it at the farm next door, it 
just became sort of more work. 

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And so less producers or 
manufacturers were offering it. 

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It became cheaper to offer this 
really kind of easily 

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standardized muscle meat option.
And so people were then going to

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get grocery stores and just 
buying slabs of meat from from 

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grocery store instead of maybe 
going to their local farm, their

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local butcher, establishing 
relationships, understanding the

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different cuts of meat and how 
to prepare them. 

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So not only did it become less 
available, but people just kind 

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of knew less about them and that
and then it becomes 

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intimidating. 
And that was a process for me 

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writing this book. 
I had to figure out how to 

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source some of this stuff, how 
to cook it, how to understand 

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it, ask questions. 
And it can be intimidating 

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because it's it's stuff you're 
not used to. 

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Yeah. 
Yeah, you're touching on this 

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concept of being so disconnected
from our food and from where it 

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comes from. 
And as you were saying that, I 

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was thinking about these chicken
processing workshops that we 

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used to do at Primal Pastures in
the beginning, like before we 

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had a facility to process the 
chickens out. 

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We were doing this all by hand, 
like my family and I in the 

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backyard. 
And it, this was very new for 

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me. 
Like I did not grow up with, you

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know, with a farm or any type of
farming background. 

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And so it was so it, it was 
weird in the beginning, like 

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being a part of the processing 
process of these chickens. 

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But then once I did it, it gave 
me this whole new appreciation 

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for the animals, for the process
and just for the ability to eat 

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meat in general. 
And so it, we noticed that we 

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were getting so much out of 
being, of, of having this deeper

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connection to our food. 
And we started offering these 

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processing workshops to the 
community And people would come 

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out and be a part of processing 
their chickens. 

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And they would, they would go 
through every step in the, in 

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the process from slitting the 
neck, which is actually the most

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humane way to kill a chicken, to
the de feathering process to 

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pulling out the organs. 
And then they would go home with

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this, this bird that they they 
processed themselves most. 

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That's not the norm, obviously, 
like most people kind of want to

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ignore that part and just the 
whole process of like a live 

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animal becoming food on your 
plate in our society today. 

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Don't really want to think about
how that happens. 

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Everything that happens from 
point A to point B and same with

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a lot of different foods. 
I think it we're just really 

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disconnected. 
And so when we think about the 

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realities of it, for most people
who aren't used to doing that, 

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it can feel really intimidating,
comfortable or uncomfortable. 

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Yeah. 
Yeah, I think, I think we have 

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to allow space for things to be 
intimidating and uncomfortable 

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and still OK and good and the 
right thing to do in a lot of 

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cases. 
I don't think there are too many

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people who love the idea of 
killing animals to eat them. 

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Like in their hearts, they're 
not pumped about the idea, not 

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death of fighting. 
Yeah, great. 

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And you know, one of the things 
in, in writing this book about 

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organ meats, I really, I, I 
spoke with a lot of farmers. 

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I also connected with a lot of 
hunters, which ended up being 

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quite a audience for me because 
they're individuals who are very

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connected to the food that they 
are sourcing and providing for, 

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for their families. 
And they also are already deeply

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bought into the idea of making 
use of the entire animal. 

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And they tend to be some of the 
most obviously respectful and 

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understanding of the process 
because they understand how 

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difficult and unpleasant and 
uncomfortable it can be. 

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And I think again, because of 
modern times and technology and 

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how we can be so connected to so
many of the processes that make 

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our life run, that we are just 
increasingly uncomfortable with 

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facing anything that is 
unpleasant, right? 

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And it's lovely and wonderful 
that we live in a modern time 

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where we can be so comfortable. 
A lot of the time. 

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It's a luxury, but it's only a 
luxury for so long until we run 

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into some of the problems that 
we're facing with the sort of 

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modern food industry. 
It's becoming increasingly a 

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problem. 
And if we continue to turn away 

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from it and say, you know, 
modern factory farming is bad, 

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so let's never eat animals again
and let's go buy Beyond Meat, 

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it's not an answer. 
It's not a well thought through 

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00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:49,240
answer and it doesn't fix the 
problems. 

227
00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:53,160
So I think we just need to maybe
be a little bit more more 

228
00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:57,760
comfortable incrementally with 
facing the challenges that are 

229
00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,040
inevitable with the system. 
Yeah, it's like getting 

230
00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,680
comfortable facing these 
uncomfortable realities. 

231
00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,720
I always think of that phrase. 
I don't know where it comes 

232
00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,840
from, but like civilized beyond 
common sense. 

233
00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:11,520
I like it. 
I like it. 

234
00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:12,800
I don't know where that came 
from, but I. 

235
00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:14,560
Like it. 
I think that that's true on a 

236
00:12:14,560 --> 00:12:17,280
lot of levels for our world 
today. 

237
00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,680
Let's back up a little bit. 
How did you get involved in the 

238
00:12:20,680 --> 00:12:25,840
world of health and Wellness? 
Yeah, So I mean, I I've always 

239
00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,880
from a young age and maybe this 
is just, I've had brothers and I

240
00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,960
was a kid in the 90s and I think
that there was like a real 

241
00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:37,120
cultural thing at that time with
like that was the that was the 

242
00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,600
era of like Arnold 
Schwarzenegger and like American

243
00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,040
Gladiators and just like muscles
and overt strength. 

244
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,320
And for some reason I just 
bought into it at a really early

245
00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,080
age. 
I was always really fascinated 

246
00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:56,080
with human capacity to be strong
and to really physically express

247
00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,040
themselves. 
I, you know, not being much of 

248
00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,960
an athlete growing up, I was 
always so interested in 

249
00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,600
athletics and like what the 
human body was capable of. 

250
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,320
So I always was just into 
muscles. 

251
00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,520
That was never, that was never 
something that I had to get my 

252
00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,320
head around. 
As a woman, I've always liked 

253
00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:14,600
muscles on other people and I 
like muscles on myself. 

254
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,480
And so I was always in the gym. 
You know, as soon as I kind of 

255
00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,400
became a teenager, I was 
figuring these things out and it

256
00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:24,520
really was kind of this like 
parallel progression of as I was

257
00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:28,320
exploring my own kind of 
physical interests and nutrition

258
00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,920
and all that stuff, I was kind 
of trying to learn about it in a

259
00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:33,880
professional sense and sort of 
marry the 2. 

260
00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,920
So eventually I did get into, 
you know, editorial and 

261
00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,040
publishing and, and writing for 
some health magazines and things

262
00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,440
like that. 
And I was really getting exposed

263
00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,120
to a lot of different 
nutritional methodologies and 

264
00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:50,160
training methodologies. 
And so and I, you know, dabbled 

265
00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:52,080
in a lot of things, like I 
consider myself a little bit 

266
00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:56,040
more of a generalist than sort 
of a specific expert in anything

267
00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,360
except maybe organ needs. 
Yeah, I would say you're an 

268
00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,120
expert in organ needs just 
because there's not too. 

269
00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,360
Many of us really. 
But you know, and I, I got into 

270
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,440
like, I was into competitive 
bodybuilding for a while. 

271
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:10,040
I found CrossFit when that was 
really in its heyday and that 

272
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:13,600
was kind of a moment for me 
because it really showed me what

273
00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:16,880
like quote, UN quote, normal 
women could accomplish. 

274
00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,160
Because, you know, we're not 
that old. 

275
00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,800
But when I was younger, people 
weren't talking about women 

276
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,120
being super strong or, or even 
being interested in that kind of

277
00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:27,800
stuff. 
It was really very niche. 

278
00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,400
Much less so now if you're in 
the fitness world, you see a lot

279
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:33,480
of very strong women doing 
really impressive things. 

280
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:37,360
But that's really recent. 
And so I just kind of always 

281
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:38,760
loved it. 
And so as I was learning for 

282
00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:42,360
myself and trying to just kind 
of explore that for my own 

283
00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:47,000
interests, I was on hosting a 
number of podcasts and then 

284
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,240
eventually finding my own and 
writing for magazines, and then 

285
00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,680
I was coaching and then writing 
cookbooks. 

286
00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:56,520
It's all just been this sort of 
I'm trying to make a living 

287
00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,600
doing the stuff that I like 
would be doing for free. 

288
00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:01,560
So it's pretty awesome. 
That's amazing, yeah. 

289
00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,200
And what inspired you to write 
your first cookbook? 

290
00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:07,600
Yeah, so the cookbooks, the 
first cookbook it takes Scots is

291
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,320
the the Nose to tail Oregon me 
Cookbook and how much? 

292
00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,600
Cookbooks out there are there 
like that focus on this organ 

293
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:16,440
needs. 
Interestingly enough, so I was 

294
00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,480
doing some research obviously 
before I wrote this book and 

295
00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:22,040
thinking like, does this exist? 
And then what capacity? 

296
00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:28,400
There's not a ton and most of 
them tend to be older, so like 

297
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:32,840
that really kind of old. 
School like, Ancestral even more

298
00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:36,040
like. 
Classic French or like Italian 

299
00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:37,800
cooking. 
So, but it's hilarious because I

300
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:39,920
have a bunch of these at home 
and you know, they'll be like 

301
00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:42,800
these tiny little hardbound 
books that are absolutely out of

302
00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,240
print now. 
But the recipe will just be like

303
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:50,680
acquire a rabbit brain and then 
put it and then Sue V like it's 

304
00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,600
just so odd. 
The average person is gonna kind

305
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,160
of feel to get us. 
Out of reach, Yeah. 

306
00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,600
And so I'm like, OK, so that's 
not really accessible for most 

307
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:00,400
people. 
And then, yeah, there were a 

308
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:02,520
couple more modern ones. 
Some of the bigger names have 

309
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,320
written a couple, but they're, 
they again, tend to be from 

310
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,280
really accomplished professional
chefs. 

311
00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,600
And they, I think that they 
speak more to people who are 

312
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:13,520
already really comfortable in 
that world. 

313
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,360
And what I wanted to do was 
write something that was really 

314
00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:23,000
accessible to the average and 
novice, you know, home chef, 

315
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,000
just myself. 
I have no background in this 

316
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:26,600
stuff whatsoever. 
And I didn't grow up eating 

317
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:28,800
organ meats, by the way. 
So we can talk about that too. 

318
00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:34,080
But a large part of the book is 
really kind of hand holding and 

319
00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:39,560
really trying to do this in as 
unintimidating a way as 

320
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,200
possible. 
So I do talk a lot about history

321
00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,440
and the cultural aspects of 
organ needs. 

322
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,320
All the different, you know, 
people all over the world who 

323
00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,400
have always made use of the 
entire animal and why that's 

324
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:55,520
important and how they do it. 
I break down every organ and the

325
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:59,960
best sort of ways to prep it, 
the most popular ways to prepare

326
00:16:59,960 --> 00:17:02,160
and cook it, the health benefits
of each. 

327
00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:06,720
So I really want people to just 
sort of feel educated and feel 

328
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,040
like they kind of understand it 
before they dip their toe in. 

329
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:13,880
And then almost all the recipes,
I have a couple guest chefs and,

330
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,079
and some recipes that were 
submitted that are from more 

331
00:17:16,079 --> 00:17:19,000
accomplished people and myself. 
But generally, it's really that 

332
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,720
cliche thing of if I can do it, 
you can do it. 

333
00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:23,800
Because I really, I mean, I was 
learning as I went. 

334
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:25,880
Yeah. 
I can only imagine the amount of

335
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,200
trial and error that must have 
gone into this there. 

336
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,960
Was a fair bit. 
Was there anything that was just

337
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,640
a total flop, total disaster as 
you were going along? 

338
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:36,760
I got it. 
I mean, absolutely. 

339
00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:38,920
Maybe I've just blocked them 
from my mind, but I, I mostly 

340
00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,040
have funny stories of like, I 
did have to establish some 

341
00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,040
really cool relationships with 
butcher shops because again, 

342
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,160
some of this stuff, some of the 
stuff you'd be surprised you can

343
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,920
find at your, your local grocery
store and, and at a typical 

344
00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,440
grocery store anywhere around 
the country. 

345
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,280
And most of us just kind of like
our eyes just glance right off 

346
00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:58,800
it because we're not used to 
looking for it. 

347
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,040
However, some of the ingredients
are definitely more exotic and 

348
00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:03,400
definitely take a little bit 
more work. 

349
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,160
And so I really started like 
kind of branching out to the, 

350
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:08,920
the butcher shops and asking 
questions. 

351
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,320
And some of these people, they 
eventually warmed up to me and 

352
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,720
we're like, OK, this, this 
woman's, you know, interesting. 

353
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,600
But at first they're like, why 
is this woman coming in and 

354
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,840
asking for blood? 
Like what, what are you? 

355
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,880
What do you want? 
And asking for brain and asking 

356
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:24,880
for interesting things. 
And I have like vivid memories 

357
00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:28,200
of like there's a butcher shot 
truly like a 5 minute walk from 

358
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:33,040
my house and walking home with a
bag of brains and thinking like,

359
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:34,520
this is going to make a good 
story someday. 

360
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,280
Like this is kind of crazy. 
How did you even? 

361
00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,080
Know where to begin with a 
brain. 

362
00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:41,920
Well, I mean, the, the 
information exists, like if you 

363
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:46,080
do your research, you can find, 
you can find existing recipes, 

364
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,040
you can find information and you
can talk to again, farmers, 

365
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:53,760
hunters, butchers, there are 
people who know this stuff less 

366
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:55,320
and less. 
So again, and sort of North 

367
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,960
American culture. 
But and you know, I have friends

368
00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:02,280
who, you know, their families 
are not from North America. 

369
00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,160
I have friends who are from 
Africa and Asia and South 

370
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,920
America and places with like, 
oh, my grandmother has a has a 

371
00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,080
Stew recipe. 
Of course, there's, there's no, 

372
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,040
you know, amounts you're going 
to have to figure it out. 

373
00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,080
But I can give you some 
information like pass along. 

374
00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:18,760
So there was some, you know, 
some sharing happening. 

375
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,520
But it really is just a 
willingness, I think, to 

376
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:25,240
experiment and a willingness to 
mess up a willingness to try and

377
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:29,720
for it not to work out. 
I think that food and cooking is

378
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:34,960
such a low risk way to broaden 
your horizons and like try 

379
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:38,760
something new and experiment. 
If you try something that 

380
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:40,440
doesn't work, you're right back 
where you started. 

381
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,120
If you try something you don't 
like the taste of it, you 

382
00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:46,600
literally have lost nothing. 
But if you try it and you do 

383
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,400
like it and you do enjoy it, 
you've potentially just opened 

384
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:53,640
up like an entirely new world 
really both like in the kitchen 

385
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:54,880
and also for your health 
potentially. 

386
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:56,000
And we're talking about organ 
meats. 

387
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,840
So I really encourage people. 
I just, I feel like there is a 

388
00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,440
lot of fear around the unknown 
and the new and the different. 

389
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:06,920
I really just encourage people 
to think of food just in in that

390
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:11,720
way, just exploration and fun 
and like this low risk kind of 

391
00:20:12,120 --> 00:20:14,440
just try something new. 
Yeah, think of it as an 

392
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:15,440
adventure. 
Exactly. 

393
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:16,840
But you're, you're absolutely 
right. 

394
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:20,880
I mean, I can think of so many 
people who I know who probably 

395
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,280
eat a total of like 10 different
foods in rotation that that 

396
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,720
maybe hasn't changed in the last
20 years. 

397
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,400
It's such an interesting things 
in this culture. 

398
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:31,560
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

399
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,080
And you mentioned that you did 
not grow up eating this way. 

400
00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:36,040
Tell me, like how you grew up 
eating? 

401
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,800
Yeah, so I think I was pretty 
standard American diet, 

402
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,840
honestly, like I. 
Standard Canadian diet. 

403
00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:44,360
I mean, it's all the same. 
And I actually have American 

404
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,120
parents, so I like a more 
typical, probably American 

405
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,160
upbringing in Canada than a lot 
of people. 

406
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,320
But you know, I ate, I remember 
a lot of skim milk. 

407
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,920
I remember white bread. 
I remember we did. 

408
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,320
We always ate meat. 
Like I remember steaks and pork 

409
00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:58,760
chops. 
And I grew up on the East Coast,

410
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,400
so I was eating seafood. 
So there was good and bad. 

411
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,280
There was certainly less 
conversation and less awareness 

412
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,000
around like processed foods and,
and what maybe they can do, 

413
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,400
especially to, to children. 
So probably eating a bunch of 

414
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,680
craft, but I was also eating, 
you know, unprocessed fruits and

415
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,040
vegetables and, and meat and 
things like that. 

416
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,560
I will say, you know, again, as 
a kid, I wasn't the most 

417
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,560
adventurous eater. 
There wasn't really opportunity,

418
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:27,240
but I think there was always 
something in there because as 

419
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,920
soon as I became an adult and, 
you know, I graduated university

420
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,840
and I moved away and I lived in 
a couple different countries and

421
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,280
I lived in some big cities. 
And whenever I had the 

422
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:39,400
opportunity, I would, I would, 
you know, try new cuisines, go 

423
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,760
to new restaurants. 
And I always wanted to get the 

424
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,360
thing on the menu that I didn't 
know what it was like. 

425
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:46,480
And if other people were like, 
oh man, what is that? 

426
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,040
I don't know what that is. 
And I'll get that. 

427
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,040
So I always did kind of approach
it like this adventure. 

428
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:52,160
I'm like, why don't you just try
it? 

429
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:53,840
What's? 
Yeah, especially if you're in a 

430
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:57,000
new place and like the 
opportunity to try something 

431
00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,360
that you may never have access 
to again. 

432
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,880
I was the same way in in 
college. 

433
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,280
I was in I went to Africa for 
two months and I was so excited 

434
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,760
to try everything. 
I actually we visited the Maasai

435
00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:09,080
tribe get. 
Some blood. 

436
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,280
No, I asked for it actually, 
because they, For anyone who's 

437
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:16,480
unfamiliar, the Maasai tribe is 
a tribe in Africa and they are a

438
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:18,920
not a hunter gatherer tried. 
They're a what? 

439
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:20,360
What would you call that? 
Pastoral. 

440
00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:21,480
Yeah. 
I would say yeah. 

441
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:25,720
Shepherding, yeah. 
But their main, I think their 

442
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:30,040
main food source is raw cow's 
milk mixed with blood mixed with

443
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:30,840
cow's blood. 
Yep. 

444
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:35,160
And so I did ask them if I could
try that and they would not let 

445
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:39,440
me try it. 
Which it may have been a good 

446
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,040
thing, I don't know. 
I mean, talk about sustainable 

447
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,120
because they're able to do this 
and keeping their cattle alive. 

448
00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:46,720
I mean, it's pretty incredible. 
Yeah. 

449
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,520
And and you know, they're, 
they've done studies on these 

450
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,880
tribes too, about how their 
their cholesterol and fat intake

451
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,000
is really high because they're 
eating their blood and and milk.

452
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,520
But they're, of course, slimmer.
They have virtually no heart 

453
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:01,000
disease. 
Yeah. 

454
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:05,360
Can you speak to the cholesterol
myth or misconception? 

455
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,440
Yeah, there's with meats I I 
think. 

456
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:14,560
I think one of the sort of the 
main issues around people kind 

457
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:19,000
of equating red meat with heart 
disease has come from some 

458
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,400
flawed studies. 
And as we know, there are 

459
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,160
there's a lot of instances of 
flawed studies in the health and

460
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,800
nutrition community where 
something comes out, It has a 

461
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:31,840
really provocative headline like
HRT for women is bad or red meat

462
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,280
will give you heart disease. 
And it's really easy to hang on 

463
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:36,600
to that. 
It's like a sound bite that 

464
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:41,080
people remember, even when those
studies are later debunked, new 

465
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:42,920
studies come out, new 
information comes out. 

466
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:47,800
And I think with some of that, 
that study, it was really truly 

467
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,840
like study design that just kind
of it was so limited and it 

468
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:53,520
caused a lot of issues. 
Like at one point they were 

469
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:58,080
comparing essentially people who
ate a standard American diet 

470
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:03,200
with meat to like strict 
vegetarians, which is not a one 

471
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,480
to one comparison at all. 
As we know, the standard 

472
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,160
American diet has a number of 
issues and meat being the least 

473
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,800
of them. 
And so there's, you know, the 

474
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,120
new studies that come out that 
show, you know, when they're 

475
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:17,960
trying to acquaint. 
And it's really tough to do this

476
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,640
because you don't know what 
other lifestyle factors are 

477
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:25,040
going into the, the health 
outcomes of, of individuals, but

478
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,560
you know, meat eaters who are 
eating well-rounded, healthy, 

479
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,040
unprocessed diets compared to 
vegetarians who are doing the 

480
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:34,720
same. 
The heart disease issue 

481
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,160
basically goes away. 
And then there's also the idea 

482
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,800
of cholesterol again, being a 
bad word and being this like 

483
00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:45,520
uniformly kind of scary thing. 
We need cholesterol. 

484
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:47,320
We need dietary cholesterol. 
Our. 

485
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,640
Brain. 
Brain, our brains are made-up of

486
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:54,040
cholesterol, so we do need it. 
And I, I do know like a lot of 

487
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,600
people who eat higher animal 
protein tend to have Navy, 

488
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:02,280
higher LVL and some higher 
cholesterol readings. 

489
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:06,680
And it's something to consider 
and be aware of in the context 

490
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,560
of the rest of your life. 
It's one marker that may or may 

491
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,320
not be indicative of something 
else, but I know tons of people 

492
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,640
who are like, yeah, my, every 
time I go to the doctor, my LDL 

493
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,400
is like slightly elevated, but 
every other health marker is 

494
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,080
good. 
My weight is good. 

495
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,480
My, my fitness is good. 
My every other thing that I do 

496
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,760
is good. 
Yeah, there's so much nuance in 

497
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,880
the cholesterol conversation. 
And even even I've heard that 

498
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,560
I'm, I'm by no means like an 
expert in speaking on this, but 

499
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,680
something about like the 
particle size of the cholesterol

500
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,000
also matters. 
And there's just a lot more to 

501
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,760
it than we've been told. 
And I, the narrative has changed

502
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,640
so much over the years too. 
I'm thinking like that Time 

503
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,800
magazine cover when they 
initially told us that to stop 

504
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,080
eating butter and eggs because 
of the saturated fat. 

505
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,720
And then just, I think five 
years ago or so, they published 

506
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,520
another one with a like, a thing
of butter on the counter saying 

507
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,440
like, eat butter, it's OK now. 
Don't forget what we told you, 

508
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:03,480
you know, 15 years ago now. 
It's fine. 

509
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,400
Yep. 
So yeah, that's always kind of 

510
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,200
evolving the the mainstream 
messages on that stuff. 

511
00:26:10,360 --> 00:26:12,960
And I think, you know, one thing
I think we were going to talk 

512
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:19,000
about at some point is the idea 
that there there is no one 

513
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,520
prescriptive diet that is going 
to be perfect for everybody. 

514
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:27,200
And anybody listening, even what
I'm saying, you, you need to 

515
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:28,440
take it with a bit of a grain of
salt. 

516
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,400
I think anybody who is dogmatic,
anybody you see on the Internet 

517
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,400
who says you have to eat 
carnivore, you have to eat this 

518
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,400
specific way, you have to be a 
vegan because that's the optimal

519
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,400
human diet. 
It's short sighted and they're 

520
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,880
probably either trying to be 
provocative or try to sell you 

521
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,560
something there. 
There is a basic foundational 

522
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,440
template that is best for most 
human beings and it's a really 

523
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,760
great starting point for most 
people. 

524
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:58,680
And then from there, individuals
need to do the hard work and the

525
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:03,280
fun and and empowering work of 
tweaking and figuring out 

526
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:07,320
exactly what works for you based
on maybe where you live, what 

527
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,440
your personal preferences are, 
what your goals are. 

528
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,040
Are you pregnant like yours 
truly, or are you trying to 

529
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:17,720
build muscle or are you going 
through menopause or are you 15?

530
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,760
You know, like we all have to 
kind of make the adjustments. 

531
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:26,360
So I really, I really caution 
people to not fall victim to 

532
00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:30,400
somebody who is maybe popular 
and attention getting and looks 

533
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,320
good as their their main 
platform. 

534
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:36,040
I think that it really should be
more about the education 

535
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,320
component. 
What feels right to you learning

536
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,560
how to actually listen to your 
body And that's not, again, a 

537
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,240
sound bite. 
That's like a real thing people 

538
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,320
need to learn how to do. 
And especially women, we have a 

539
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,040
hard time with that. 
But yeah, there are some 

540
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,080
universal truths and some things
that we can we can jump off 

541
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:50,920
from. 
But. 

542
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,600
What does that basic template 
look like? 

543
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,120
I believe. 
I believe in my work and 

544
00:27:58,120 --> 00:28:03,680
experience. 
I believe that a paleo ish 

545
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,480
approach is a really really 
common sense. 

546
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,160
Great starting point for for 
most people. 

547
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,240
I feel the exact same way about 
the paleo diet. 

548
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,280
And I say paleo diet, but I 
don't think of it as a diet. 

549
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:20,120
I think of it as a way of eating
because like you said, it is not

550
00:28:20,120 --> 00:28:22,960
overly restrictive and it's 
really just going back to the 

551
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,960
basics of eating real food. 
At least that's how I see it. 

552
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:30,600
So I love eating paleo with an 
emphasis on animal based 

553
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:31,760
protein. 
That's kind of where I've 

554
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:33,520
landed. 
Yeah, I love that. 

555
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,320
That's, I mean, that's literally
the second book. 

556
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:39,080
So it's called carnivore ish 
because you got to have a snappy

557
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,360
name. 
But I'm not necessarily a 

558
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,640
proponent of like strict 
carnivore, especially long term.

559
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,360
It's just that if you go to, you
know, the healthy eating section

560
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,320
of a bookstore, it's all plant 
based, right? 

561
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:55,360
The entire thing is vegan plant 
based. 

562
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,640
Pictures of salads. 
And all I wanted was to show 

563
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:04,720
that you can eat a a 
well-rounded diet that has both 

564
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:09,760
animal and plant products in 
every meal that can be focused 

565
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,520
around animal protein and it is 
healthy and good for you, It's 

566
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,000
good for your family. 
There's nothing extreme or crazy

567
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,440
or aggressive about it. 
And you know, just the the 

568
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:24,400
marketing job that's been done 
recently to equate plant based 

569
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,720
health is really actually 
impressive. 

570
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,080
If I it's, it's unfortunate 
because I don't agree with it, 

571
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,360
but it's really been an 
impressive marketing plan 

572
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,120
because. 
Then the dollar is behind that 

573
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:36,720
it. 
Truly is, I mean, and you can, 

574
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,400
you can look at like there's, 
there's candy bars now, which 

575
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,000
again, I'm not demonizing 
anything. 

576
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,880
I like a candy bar, but there 
are chocolate bars now that talk

577
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,440
about being plant based and they
put a little green leaf on the 

578
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,440
chocolate bar and we are 
immediately thinking, OK, so 

579
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,960
this makes it healthier. 
It's just, it's so bizarre. 

580
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,640
And then and then you know, the,
the meat based cookbooks are in 

581
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,440
the speciality section. 
It's just a it's a really 

582
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:04,680
strange time in food. 
How do you feed your son because

583
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:06,120
you have a three-year old son? 
Yes. 

584
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,680
What does his diet look like? 
Does he eat organ meats? 

585
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:13,200
Also, yeah, so it's been a 
really fun and I'm sure you can 

586
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,200
say the same thing too, because 
it it when you have kids that 

587
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,760
now isn't just about what you 
want to eat, it's about what 

588
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,120
what they should be eating, what
you want them to eat and then 

589
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,440
what they actually will eat, 
which don't always line up. 

590
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:28,920
I do believe that there is an 
element of obviously introducing

591
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,880
things early which helps, and I 
do believe that even introducing

592
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,720
things in the womb helps. 
So when I was pregnant the first

593
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,200
time and now again, spoiler 
alert, I'm five months pregnant 

594
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:44,120
again and I ate meats throughout
my entire pregnancy. 

595
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,480
I ate organ meats through my 
entire pregnancy. 

596
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,360
I and this could, maybe could go
down a rabbit hole if we wanted 

597
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,360
to, but you know, I didn't stop 
eating a lot of the things that 

598
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,280
conventional wisdom tells you to
stop eating in pregnancy. 

599
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:01,520
I mean, same runny eggs and 
unpasteurized cheese and raw 

600
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,440
liver, raw liver and all of 
those things. 

601
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:07,480
I eat all of them. 
And I you can't say for sure 

602
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,080
that that's going to help your 
kids like those tastes too. 

603
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,600
But there, there does seem to be
some research that they sort of 

604
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,520
recognize and maybe prefer 
flavors that they're used to 

605
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,320
taking in when they they were in
your body. 

606
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,320
And also via breast milk. 
I'm sure as well. 

607
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,240
Yeah, that's exactly right. 
So I was doing all of that to 

608
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,880
kind of prep him and then his 
first real foods that he ate. 

609
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,200
So he I breast fed for a year 
and a half until he said I'm 

610
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:37,000
done, which was easy for me. 
But when he started being 

611
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,000
interested in food, the first 
thing he put in his mouth was I 

612
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:41,920
think it was like a a beef rib 
bone. 

613
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:47,120
And after that I focused on I 
gave him some chicken liver was 

614
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,880
one of the first things. 
Bones were like a little bit of 

615
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:51,960
meat on the bone that he could 
kind of non. 

616
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:57,120
I gave him cod liver. 
He still loves cod liver. 

617
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:58,800
My kids are obsessed with cod 
liver. 

618
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:00,720
Delicious. 
Do you do smoked cod liver? 

619
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,760
I do the extra virgin cod liver 
from Rosita. 

620
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,080
It's so delicious. 
You smoked. 

621
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:07,840
I smoked. 
I've never got to try it. 

622
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,520
I should want some for you 
anyway. 

623
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,040
We'll talk about that later. 
But it's so good. 

624
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,000
And he prefers it. 
He wants to eat cod liver. 

625
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,640
And I think it's, you know, 
there is an element of OK. 

626
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,720
I do the oil, are you saying? 
Actual. 

627
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:23,960
The actual. 
OK, well I haven't tried that. 

628
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,200
I'm going to get you some. 
OK, so good. 

629
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,080
I, I and people give me the most
horrified looks. 

630
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,240
Most of my family even are like,
what are you doing? 

631
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,040
This is a lot even for you. 
I'm like, it's so delicious. 

632
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,800
You just have to give it a try. 
But he he doesn't know. 

633
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,680
And children don't know what's 
weird or extreme or gross. 

634
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:48,200
They don't know that, you know, 
liver is a a stranger cut to eat

635
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,600
than anything else. 
So you do have a, a lot of 

636
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,800
opportunity to introduce your 
kids to things when they're 

637
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:56,920
younger. 
And I know that there is a 

638
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,280
reality of kids do find the 
stage when they're in, you know,

639
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,920
toddlerhood where maybe they do 
get a little bit pickier and, 

640
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,560
and there's bio individuality 
there too. 

641
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,360
Some kids are just going to be 
pickier than others. 

642
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,560
And I will say, you know, my kid
doesn't love a lot of 

643
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,680
vegetables. 
And, you know, people listening 

644
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:16,960
might be like, well, duh, you're
the Oregon meat person. 

645
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,000
You're not really like pushing 
vegetables too much. 

646
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,760
And that's kind of true. 
But we do, we give it to him all

647
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:24,000
the time. 
We're always giving him 

648
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,920
different things to try. 
We're modeling, eating all of 

649
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,640
these things in front of him. 
And even, you know, my husband 

650
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,600
and I, this is a great example 
of how there is sort of a 

651
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,200
foundational principle that 
looks different to different 

652
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,680
people. 
So he is, you know, a much 

653
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,120
bigger, taller person than I am.
He tends to be really lean. 

654
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,760
He needs to eat a lot to 
maintain his weight. 

655
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,400
Like such a terrible thing for 
him anyway. 

656
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,680
He has to eat a lot. 
He is much more convinced about 

657
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:51,960
wanting to eat more vegetables 
than I am. 

658
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,400
So his plate is going to be a 
lot bigger than mine and it's 

659
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:55,640
going to have a lot more 
vegetables. 

660
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,080
Mine does not. 
I'm still eating vegetables. 

661
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:00,960
I'm still eating fruit. 
I'm still eating different 

662
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,280
things. 
And I'm showing my son that the 

663
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,600
stuff is delicious and it's fun 
to try new things. 

664
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,760
And then within that framework, 
he's going to eat what he wants 

665
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,520
to eat. 
But there is that that element 

666
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,639
too, of like, he's not going to 
eat the the junk food if there 

667
00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:18,719
is no junk food for him to eat. 
And there it comes, you know, 

668
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,440
like everyone will say, well, 
what about when he goes to a 

669
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:21,679
friend's house? 
What about when he goes to 

670
00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:24,040
school, when he gets older? 
There's time to navigate these 

671
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,320
things. 
But when they're toddlers, I I 

672
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,400
don't really feel. 
Again, I'm not a dogmatic 

673
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,040
person. 
I also don't feel a 2 year old 

674
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:31,960
needs to eat like straight 
sugar. 

675
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:33,920
I just don't think it's it's 
necessary. 

676
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,120
I feel the same way. 
Like we don't need to give them 

677
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:40,639
these, these fake foods just 
under the premise that like 

678
00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:42,920
they're missing out, like they 
they don't have like a Cheeto 

679
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:44,960
deficiency or a Coca-Cola 
deficiency. 

680
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:46,960
Yeah. 
And you can make healthier 

681
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:48,360
versions of these things that 
are delicious. 

682
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,320
Like every birthday, I make him 
his own cake. 

683
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,960
That is a cake. 
It's not made out of carrots. 

684
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,400
And, you know, sadness. 
It's it's a cake, but it's 

685
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:57,840
healthier. 
It's lower sugar. 

686
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,920
There's fewer ingredients. 
It probably has some added 

687
00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:03,600
protein in it. 
And you know, I know that these,

688
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,360
some of these really hyper 
palpable, really high sugar 

689
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,560
foods like they, they are drugs.
They're absolutely I'm, I fall 

690
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,800
victim to it too. 
If you put some, you know, 

691
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,160
peanut butter cups in front of 
me, I have a hard time not 

692
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,840
eating all of them. 
So you do this to a 2 year old 

693
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,000
or a three-year old, What do you
expect to happen? 

694
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,440
And when they've had a taste of 
that, how do you expect them to 

695
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:25,240
go back to the cod liver or the 
carrot sticks or, you know, 

696
00:35:25,240 --> 00:35:27,960
whatever. 
So anyway, so my son, he's 

697
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,120
definitely a protein kid and he 
eats. 

698
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,280
Which I think most kids are, if 
they're given that they tend to.

699
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,800
I mean, my kids all have been. 
I think there's something 

700
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,400
instinctual in all of us that 
wants protein. 

701
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,200
I think so. 
And especially for kids, it's 

702
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,920
like as they're growing, they 
need the building blocks to 

703
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:46,040
grow. 
Yep, Yep. 

704
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:50,320
And he needs a lot of dairy. 
He loves his butter, he loves 

705
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,240
his milk. 
He and he just, he loves his 

706
00:35:53,240 --> 00:35:55,080
coffee. 
Eats a lot of sardines straight 

707
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,320
from the can. 
Again, he just, like, horrifies.

708
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,240
It was one of the first things I
gave my kids. 

709
00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:04,280
We're just eating like full fish
from a can He he loves it and 

710
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,880
I'm never going to tell him that
it's a a weird, bizarre thing to

711
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:09,480
do. 
It's I think it's amazing and I 

712
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,960
think it helps his his health. 
And I, again, this is something 

713
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:17,320
that I can't say prescriptively 
is, you know, this caused this, 

714
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,120
but I, you know that putting him
in preschool and you know, all 

715
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,240
the sickness stuff that comes 
when you put your kid out into 

716
00:36:23,240 --> 00:36:25,760
the world and then he comes back
with all of his germs. 

717
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,240
I really think it's been 
minimized because of the cod 

718
00:36:29,240 --> 00:36:31,520
liver because when you think 
about like previous generations,

719
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,440
they'd give their kids like 
spoonful of cod liver every day.

720
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,600
It's like helps with your immune
system and he eats the actual 

721
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,760
liver every week. 
And I I think it's helped make 

722
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,000
him kind of more resilient and 
have a good immune system. 

723
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,840
I mean it seems to be working. 
Yeah, it's amazing. 

724
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:47,920
Yeah. 
I think there's this 

725
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,440
misconception that just because 
you're feeding your kids, like, 

726
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:54,920
different types of foods, that 
they're going to feel left out 

727
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,880
and that it's weird to live that
way and to eat these things. 

728
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:02,240
But I also want my kids to grow 
up believing that it's OK to do 

729
00:37:02,240 --> 00:37:04,720
things different than the 
general population. 

730
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:09,000
Like, yes, sometimes there may 
be a little bit of discomfort, 

731
00:37:09,720 --> 00:37:13,520
but also that's OK. 
Like it's OK not to follow what 

732
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,200
everyone else is doing in a lot 
of different areas of life. 

733
00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:19,880
And I think food is one way to 
kind of teach them that in an 

734
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,200
early age, Like, you know, 
everyone makes different 

735
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,160
choices. 
These kids may eat these things 

736
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,080
and that's what they do. 
And that's OK. 

737
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,840
We still, we still love them, 
but this is how our family eats 

738
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,920
and, and just kind of get them 
comfortable with, with making 

739
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,000
like different types of choices.
It's something that I, I try to 

740
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,200
do for them and model that for 
them as well. 

741
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,800
I love that. 
What about adults who are 

742
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,520
interested in the benefits of 
organ meats, but nervous to to 

743
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:49,800
dabble into it and start eating 
organ meats? 

744
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:51,960
Where would you recommend that 
someone starts out? 

745
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,160
Yeah, I have a lot of answers 
for you because this is of 

746
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,440
course a very common question. 
I have a lot of people coming to

747
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,720
me saying like I'm interested, 
but I didn't grow up eating this

748
00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:02,080
way. 
It's very intimidating. 

749
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,720
I don't really, I don't like the
taste of liver and I know you've

750
00:38:04,720 --> 00:38:07,120
said that on the podcast before,
so I have some advice. 

751
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:08,480
For you, I love to hear your 
advice. 

752
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,560
I have lots of fun because. 
I'm still like, this is an area 

753
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:13,720
that I also still need to grow 
in. 

754
00:38:13,720 --> 00:38:16,520
Like this is how I get my organ 
meats is the smoothie that we're

755
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,280
drinking. 
And I haven't ventured outside 

756
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:20,680
of that a whole lot. 
Yeah. 

757
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:22,280
And you challenged me in this 
area. 

758
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,840
And so I want to hear your 
challenges but but. 

759
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,600
You're good for you for finding 
the way that it works, right? 

760
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,760
You know, OK, so the the 1st and
easiest step I would say to 

761
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:36,200
anybody who's interested is go 
to a restaurant and order 

762
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,880
something off the menu and have 
a professional make something 

763
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,320
for you. 
Because you'd be surprised how 

764
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,960
many organ meats are on 
restaurant menus. 

765
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,600
Again, just train our eyes not 
to look for these things. 

766
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,200
But if you go to a Mexican 
restaurant, there's probably a 

767
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,640
tongue Taco. 
If you you know, maybe there's 

768
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:53,800
menudo, there's there's Stew 
with tripe. 

769
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,920
You can get pho at an Asian 
restaurant that has intestine in

770
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,280
it. 
Wow, heart does. 

771
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,560
Tongue have benefits outside of 
because I always think of tongue

772
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,960
as another muscle meat but. 
They all I mean this, this is 

773
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:08,840
this is the whole other we can. 
Dive into it. 

774
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:10,720
Just all. 
So many unique things for each 

775
00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:11,880
other. 
Let's get back to that because I

776
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:13,440
can tell you about tongue, 
because tongue is actually 

777
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:14,960
probably one of my favorite 
cuts. 

778
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:16,800
So I have and it's pretty mild. 
Right. 

779
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,160
It's delicious. 
It's so good. 

780
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:21,880
If you could, there's a learning
curve in the preparation because

781
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:23,680
it looks like a tongue and if 
you're getting like a cow 

782
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:27,360
tongue, it's like this big. 
So that's another I I have some,

783
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,440
some stories getting my head 
around, you know, prepping 

784
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,320
tongue, but it's delicious. 
But but going back to the 

785
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:37,160
restaurant thing again, it's 
such a low risk way to 

786
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:39,160
experiment. 
You don't have to go find the 

787
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,240
the organ meats. 
You don't have to prep them. 

788
00:39:41,240 --> 00:39:42,520
You don't have to have them in 
your home. 

789
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,240
You don't have to be intimidated
about trying to make them taste 

790
00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:48,760
good. 
You can experience how good they

791
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,240
can taste because professional 
is doing it for you. 

792
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,000
So you can just kind of 
experiment and dip your toe in 

793
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:55,240
that way. 
I think that's a really great 

794
00:39:55,240 --> 00:39:57,800
starting point. 
The next step is to do what 

795
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,600
you're doing and what parents 
have done for their children 

796
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:04,680
since the eating of time, which 
is hide it, hide healthy stuff 

797
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:05,920
in the foods that they already 
eat. 

798
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,240
So a lot of the recipes in my 
book are. 

799
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,840
Basically nutritionally boosting
foods that you already like, so 

800
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:18,360
burgers, sausages, meatballs, 
smoothies, things like that. 

801
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,800
That is such an easy, Yeah, like
we, we do that also. 

802
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,320
We get the ground, the ground 
beef with the heart and the 

803
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,000
liver mixed in and right. 
So easy. 

804
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:29,240
Yep, and you can do it and it 
you can do it so subtly in so 

805
00:40:29,240 --> 00:40:32,000
many other ways. 
I have a a blood pudding. 

806
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,880
I have a savory blood pudding 
and a sweet blood pudding, A 

807
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:38,160
chocolate blood pudding, just 
actually based off a really 

808
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:41,040
popular Italian blood, the 
pudding dish that was one of the

809
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,000
most popular desserts that I 
made. 

810
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,000
And there's blood in it, which 
is very intimidating to people. 

811
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:51,000
It's so delicious, but all it 
does is kind of thicken and 

812
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:52,880
enrich the flavor of the 
chocolate. 

813
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,760
You're not, it's not like you're
eating a blood pudding, you 

814
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,880
know, but hide it, hide it, make
it subtle, and then you're just 

815
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,520
eating the foods that you're 
already comfortable with, but 

816
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:03,440
it's more nutritious. 
There's nothing wrong with that.

817
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:07,280
You don't have to eat raw liver 
every day for to get the 

818
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,440
benefits. 
You can find ways to incorporate

819
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,720
it into your life, but makes 
sense and and it's pleasant for 

820
00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:15,600
you. 
Another practical tip I would 

821
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:19,120
say, if you are willing to come 
start sourcing and bring some 

822
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,720
stuff home and making it 
yourself is to start with 

823
00:41:21,720 --> 00:41:25,600
smaller animals. 
So start with, you know, 

824
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,640
poultry. 
Yeah, chicken liver is a lot 

825
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:30,600
more palatable than beef liver. 
Exactly. 

826
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:33,080
Chicken and chicken. 
Heart so. 

827
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,440
Easy Turkey. 
Even lamb. 

828
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:37,320
Lamb heart is another one of my 
favorite cuts. 

829
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,720
The smaller the animal, the 
milder it's going to taste. 

830
00:41:40,720 --> 00:41:44,160
And if you're just trying to get
comfortable with this, yeah, a 

831
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,080
chicken liver Pate is going to 
taste much milder than like a 

832
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,840
bison or a beef liver. 
Yeah, taste right. 

833
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:51,600
So starch. 
And that you can find at a lot 

834
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:52,320
of restaurants. 
Too. 

835
00:41:52,720 --> 00:41:55,400
Exactly. 
And they're inexpensive chicken 

836
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,520
and chicken liver, chicken 
hearts, things like that are 

837
00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:59,880
very easy to find and 
everywhere. 

838
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,120
So I would say that. 
And then one other thought that 

839
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:08,280
is probably my sassiest answer 
to this question is to just kind

840
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:12,680
of suck it up and eat it anyway 
because I love that. 

841
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,040
And it goes back to the 
conversation that we had earlier

842
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,320
where I think we're just so 
scared of things that are 

843
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,760
different that we don't even let
ourselves try. 

844
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:23,400
So again, liver potentially is 
something that it has a strong 

845
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,920
flavor and maybe intimidating, 
but a lot of organs are mild 

846
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,360
tasting and actually quite 
delicious and they still have a 

847
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,560
ton of nutritional value, but 
maybe they look intimidating or 

848
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,080
maybe just the concept of it 
sounds intimidating. 

849
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,080
And again, for the vast majority
of us who have come to accept 

850
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:43,640
and understand and tolerate that
an animal is dying to nourish 

851
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,520
us, it's quite arbitrary and 
quite silly. 

852
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,280
When you kind of step back and 
think like, I'm perfectly 

853
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,440
comfortable with eating this 
slice of this animal's muscle 

854
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:56,600
meat, but this other piece of 
the animal is this extreme and 

855
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,720
awful idea. 
It's like this animal has 

856
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,520
sacrificed its life for you. 
You're eating a part of it 

857
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,040
already. 
Here's another part that 

858
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,160
actually is more nutritious. 
So, and you know, again, our 

859
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:12,160
parents have been telling us for
generations and generations, eat

860
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,120
your broccoli, eat your 
vegetables. 

861
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:16,560
It doesn't matter if it doesn't 
taste good, it's good for you. 

862
00:43:16,720 --> 00:43:19,000
And sometimes we have to do 
things because it's good for us.

863
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:23,560
So suck it up and figure it out.
Find a way that tastes good. 

864
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:25,080
And there are so many ways to do
that. 

865
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,400
You don't have to, you don't 
have to choke it down, you don't

866
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,560
have to force it, but also just 
get outside your comfort zone 

867
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,880
and just do it anyway cuz it's 
really, really good for you. 

868
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,640
What is the most nutrient dense 
organ meat? 

869
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:37,080
Yeah. 
So it's liver. 

870
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,120
It is liver. 
There is a reason why everyone 

871
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:42,960
talks about liver. 
I will just kind of caveat and 

872
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:46,080
say that again, if you are 
somebody who is like I've given 

873
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,600
this a try, I've tried all the 
different kinds of liver. 

874
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:52,120
I've I've done it. 
I just cannot stomach it again. 

875
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,280
Don't shut yourself off from the
organ meats because there are a 

876
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,240
lot of other ones that are 
milder tasting that may not be 

877
00:43:58,240 --> 00:44:02,040
quite the level of nutritionally
dense as liver, but still are 

878
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,360
more nutritionally dense than a 
chicken breast or a steak. 

879
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,920
Because organ meats just tend to
have all the goodness that 

880
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,360
muscle meat has, but in more 
concentrated amounts. 

881
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:17,200
So if you can't do liver, try 
heart, try bone marrow, try 

882
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:19,480
sweet breads, try desserts, try 
some. 

883
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,200
Just keep trying things because 
you may find something that that

884
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:26,400
really is beneficial and 
delicious, but liver is the best

885
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:33,040
it has. 
I think it's 50 times the amount

886
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:37,640
of B12 as the equivalent amount 
of beef, which is in itself a 

887
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:42,240
nutritionally dense food. 
It has more folate than any 

888
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:46,200
other food on the planet. 
And folate, as you know, is a 

889
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,120
really, really important thing 
for pregnant women. 

890
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:50,880
Yeah. 
It's also something that we 

891
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:57,240
explicitly tell pregnant women 
not to eat, which I find crazy. 

892
00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:01,560
And that's something I feel I 
feel so strongly about because I

893
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:03,560
even had people tell me when I 
was pregnant the first time, 

894
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:05,880
Like, aren't you worried about, 
you know, you're eating liver 

895
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,880
and you're pregnant? 
And I'm like, it is literally 

896
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:12,760
nature's multivitamin. 
It has more vitamin A, It has 

897
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:17,640
more zinc, copper, iron, 
selenium, all of these trace 

898
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:21,680
minerals and vitamins that 
literally make our body run that

899
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,400
we don't think about at all 
until we start to feel sick. 

900
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:26,800
And then maybe we get some blood
work and it tells us our iron is

901
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:31,160
lower, our vitamin D is low. 
Liver has so much of it that you

902
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:34,760
can eat a couple oz once or 
twice a month and you're getting

903
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:37,960
significant nutritional. 
Benefit I thought you were going

904
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,800
to say once or twice a week, but
even as little as incorporating 

905
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:42,520
it a few times a month will make
a big difference. 

906
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:43,920
Absolutely. 
And this is the other thing that

907
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,920
I think people need to know 
because they think, OK, well to 

908
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:49,520
get because a lot of times the 
fine print of things like 

909
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,720
supplements or like greens 
powders and stuff like that is 

910
00:45:52,720 --> 00:45:55,800
like you have to be eating a ton
of this to really notice the 

911
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:57,800
benefits. 
And liver and organ meats are 

912
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,880
actually the opposite. 
So people who are trying to eat 

913
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,800
less meat, for example, organ 
meats are a great option because

914
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,680
you can eat a few ounces of 
liver and you are getting your 

915
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:10,960
daily or more allotment of a lot
of these vitamins and minerals. 

916
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:14,160
Yeah, that's a big punch. 
And your body stores it and you 

917
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:18,120
know, and so I understand why 
people will say like, you know, 

918
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:22,840
liver has 200% of your, your 
iron or your vitamin A and 

919
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:26,800
that's the worry. 
But the other thing about like 

920
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,480
things like vitamin A or iron 
toxicity, which are the two that

921
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,360
you hear about a lot, and again,
I'm not a doctor, This is not 

922
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:34,600
prescriptive. 
You need to, you know, do your 

923
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,200
own personal sort of blood work 
and research on it. 

924
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:43,480
But it's really difficult to 
basically overdose on iron or 

925
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:46,160
vitamin D and things like that 
from real foods. 

926
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,280
It's much more likely that 
that's going to occur from 

927
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,800
supplementation. 
From synthetic forms that aren't

928
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:55,880
made in combination with these 
other nutrients that that kind 

929
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:57,720
of balance things out. 
Right, exactly right. 

930
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:03,680
And it's even harder to have too
much vitamin A or iron when 

931
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,640
you're eating liver, because no 
one's eating you won't be able 

932
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:08,200
to. 20 How? 
Much that amount, yeah. 

933
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:09,960
You're not going to eat your 
body. 

934
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,000
Will tell you like when enough 
is enough. 

935
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:13,400
I think we're. 
Absolutely right. 

936
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:18,240
So I just think that there are 
so many women who would benefit 

937
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:22,400
from eating liver compared to 
the very, very, very 

938
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:25,880
statistically tiny number of 
people who may experience 

939
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:28,160
problems. 
And I think it's such a 

940
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,120
disservice. 
And, you know, having been 

941
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:33,800
pregnant now twice, and I've 
done a ton of research on like 

942
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,120
sort of nutrition and 
supplementation and all of these

943
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:38,760
things. 
And there does seem to be 

944
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:42,840
anecdotally for me personally, 
some correlation between the 

945
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:47,000
friends of mine who are very 
scared of animal protein and, 

946
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:53,080
you know, the more nutrient 
dense foods and some pretty, I 

947
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:56,440
think, avoidable challenges and 
problems that they've had. 

948
00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:59,920
And I remember listening to, I 
just have to tell the story 

949
00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:02,080
because it just like, gets me so
fired up. 

950
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,360
But I remember the first time I 
was pregnant, I really like dove

951
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,480
deep into the stuff, like, I 
wanted to know everything and do

952
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,880
everything. 
And I was listening to a lot of 

953
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:14,600
podcasts about prenatal 
nutrition and I was listening to

954
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:16,400
1 where the nutritionists were 
plant based. 

955
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:18,120
Because I'm like, I'm going to 
be open minded and I'm going to 

956
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:20,160
listen to everything and I'm 
going to hear everybody. 

957
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:25,440
And I remember this woman saying
that, you know, when you are 

958
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,800
pregnant, if unless it's like a 
really, really strong, like 

959
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:33,120
moral or religious reason why 
you refuse to eat meat, you 

960
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:35,800
really should consider eating 
some animal protein when you're 

961
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:39,960
pregnant because it's just so 
beneficial and it's so nutrient 

962
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:43,560
dense and your body's going to 
really like accept it and it's 

963
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:45,200
going to be helpful for your 
grown baby. 

964
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:49,640
And I'm thinking, OK, so plant 
based people are saying when 

965
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:53,560
you're pregnant it's important 
to do the right thing and take 

966
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:57,200
care of that growing baby. 
When it's just you, whatever, 

967
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:01,240
just kind of try to get by, eat 
your plant based stuff because 

968
00:49:01,240 --> 00:49:03,480
it's the nicer, better thing to 
do. 

969
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:05,560
It was so telling. 
Yeah, but it's like when it 

970
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:09,480
really matters, eat the right 
stuff, but when it's just you. 

971
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:13,200
And that goes back to this whole
other conversation we can have 

972
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:18,000
about woman's health and fitness
and how little understanding and

973
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:22,960
regard we have for women's 
Physiology and how we react to 

974
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:26,480
different things and, and foods 
and our hormonal health and all 

975
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:28,120
of that stuff. 
It's just, it was so 

976
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:32,080
disappointing to hear like a, a 
woman nutritionist basically say

977
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,600
like, we don't really care about
your health. 

978
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:36,720
But when when you're pregnant, 
that's a different story. 

979
00:49:36,720 --> 00:49:38,800
You should do the right thing. 
Yeah, that's really interesting 

980
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:40,840
and I want to get into the 
conversation about women's 

981
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:44,360
fitness and an eating animal 
based protein and strength 

982
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:46,800
training at all of this. 
To round out the liver 

983
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:51,160
conversation, what would you say
to someone who's concerned about

984
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:54,600
eating the liver because of this
idea that the liver is a filter 

985
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:57,600
and therefore stores toxins? 
Yeah, that's a good question. 

986
00:49:57,600 --> 00:49:59,680
That's when I get a lot. 
And that's really just kind of a

987
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:05,040
Physiology thing. 
So the liver is a filter organ, 

988
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:07,840
but it's not a sponge. 
It doesn't store toxins. 

989
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:13,480
So basically toxins are 
methylated or detoxified in the 

990
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:17,040
liver and then they're sort of 
moved out to be excreted like 

991
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:19,200
they're it's, you know, it 
becomes urine in the kidneys or 

992
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:23,280
it becomes, you know, it's 
excreted through sweat or more 

993
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:26,480
commonly, it's stored in our 
fat. 

994
00:50:26,720 --> 00:50:29,360
So, and this is the same for 
human beings as well as animals.

995
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:33,480
So if you're eating a really, 
really healthy, well sourced 

996
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:36,760
animal and the the muscle eats 
healthy, the liver is going to 

997
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:38,360
be healthy. 
That's it just doesn't store 

998
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:39,960
toxins. 
It it filters them. 

999
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,920
What you do want to be concerned
about if you aren't able to 

1000
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:48,200
necessarily source the highest 
quality animal products, rather 

1001
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,320
than being particularly worried 
about maybe the organs, you want

1002
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:55,120
to be getting leaner cuts. 
So maybe fewer rib eyes And 

1003
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:58,160
like, I like to eat the fat. 
I like the fat on I like to eat,

1004
00:50:58,240 --> 00:50:59,880
you know, the skin with the fat 
underneath. 

1005
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:02,720
But like if you're if you're 
just a little more concerned 

1006
00:51:02,720 --> 00:51:07,160
about the the quality where your
meat's coming from, you just 

1007
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:09,920
you're better off kind of source
of leaner, leaner. 

1008
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:11,680
Cuts. 
Yeah, I always, all of our meat 

1009
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:13,600
comes from primal pastures and 
pasture birds. 

1010
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:17,800
So at home I eat, I eat fatty 
cuts of meat all the time. 

1011
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:21,120
But then going out, I'll order 
the lean stuff if I'm not sure 

1012
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:23,840
that the animal has been grass. 
Fed, That makes sense. 

1013
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:28,080
What is the importance of animal
based protein in a women's diet?

1014
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:32,480
Yeah, I mean, it's important in 
everyone's diet and I think it's

1015
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:35,480
just. 
And do organ meats have protein?

1016
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:41,240
Yes so generally speaking, most 
organs are going to have like a 

1017
00:51:41,240 --> 00:51:45,720
similar protein profile to like 
the the same amount like you 

1018
00:51:45,720 --> 00:51:48,680
know 4 ounces of this 4 ounces 
of muscle meat, it's going to be

1019
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:51,240
about the same. 
Some organs have higher protein 

1020
00:51:51,240 --> 00:51:54,240
content like I know Gizzard 
specifically for some reason are

1021
00:51:54,240 --> 00:51:56,480
really high protein and they're 
also delicious interesting. 

1022
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:00,800
But generally if if all you're 
worried about is protein and 

1023
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:04,760
amino acids, like the amino 
acids that the building blocks 

1024
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,400
of our muscles, you just want 
protein for like your games. 

1025
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,680
You can eat your chicken 
breasts, you can eat your, you 

1026
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:14,360
know, steak. 
But the real kind of winning 

1027
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:18,920
aspect to organ meats is that 
you're getting that protein and 

1028
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:21,640
you're getting all of the 
vitamins and minerals and 

1029
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:23,800
antioxidants. 
Like heart, for example, is 

1030
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:26,920
really high in Coq 10, which is 
a really powerful antioxidant 

1031
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,280
that people spend a lot of money
to supplement this. 

1032
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:33,920
And it's it's found in high 
doses in heart and other organs.

1033
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:37,280
Like what's I think it's liver 
is really, really high in 

1034
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:40,480
selenium, which is a trace 
mineral that helps reduce 

1035
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:43,640
oxidative stress and helps 
improve immune function. 

1036
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:49,160
So it's really the other stuff 
that makes or in meats so, so 

1037
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:52,200
helpful and so useful. 
But going back to the the women 

1038
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:54,600
question, the protein rich diet 
for women. 

1039
00:52:54,760 --> 00:53:00,120
Why it's why I focus more on 
women is because we as a group 

1040
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:05,480
have been caught and sort of 
brainwashed in a lot of cases to

1041
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,760
think it's unhealthy. 
And that doesn't seem to be as 

1042
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:12,280
much of A issue for men. 
We it just, it seems the fact 

1043
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:14,880
that there's sort of gendered 
messaging around food anyway, I 

1044
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:18,000
think is so ridiculous, like the
concept that some foods are 

1045
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:20,400
apparently more feminine that 
like a small. 

1046
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:24,240
It is a girl food and steaks is 
stock. 

1047
00:53:24,240 --> 00:53:27,200
Photos of women like smiling 
with low fat yogurt. 

1048
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:31,000
And I just, it's so it's so 
ridiculous, but it exists. 

1049
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:33,640
And you know, if you look up 
neat cookbooks, if you go on 

1050
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:37,560
Amazon and look it up, it's all 
like black lettering and like a 

1051
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:41,600
dude at a barbecue and you know,
a picture of a lion and like 

1052
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:42,400
stuff like that. 
It's like. 

1053
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:44,120
I feel like that's shifting now 
though. 

1054
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,520
It's like starting starting to 
become cool for like, like I'm 

1055
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:51,720
seeing videos on social media of
like these beautiful women just 

1056
00:53:51,720 --> 00:53:54,760
chowing down on a state. 
It's still pretty niche. 

1057
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:57,480
We're we're a little bit in 
about, yeah, you're probably 

1058
00:53:57,480 --> 00:53:59,200
right. 
The thing and the the challenge 

1059
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,480
with that, and I don't, again, 
I'm not knocking anybody for 

1060
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:06,240
their journey and their 
approach, but even that the 

1061
00:54:06,240 --> 00:54:10,880
beautiful woman, you know, 
eating a raw piece of meat, even

1062
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:16,240
that is it's not necessarily the
most effective way to 

1063
00:54:16,240 --> 00:54:19,640
communicate to the audience that
actually needs to see it. 

1064
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:22,400
Because the people who are gonna
see that and be like, yeah, 

1065
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:24,520
that's badass are probably 
people who are kind of already 

1066
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:26,560
bought into the idea that eating
meat is good. 

1067
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:30,840
There's a, a really big group 
still of people, and 

1068
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:35,160
specifically women who think 
that low fat is best, who think 

1069
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:37,760
that light meals is what they 
need to, to eat better. 

1070
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:40,040
They think they need to calorie 
restrict. 

1071
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:42,600
They think that high fat red 
meat is going to make them 

1072
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:44,600
unhealthy. 
Those people are going to see 

1073
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:48,160
that and think, see these meat 
eater people are extreme and 

1074
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:52,280
crazy, right? 
And so my, my approach, which is

1075
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:56,480
definitely less viral and less 
provocative, has really been to 

1076
00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:00,240
try to kind of meet people where
they are and just be, again, a 

1077
00:55:00,240 --> 00:55:03,200
little less dogmatic, a little 
less provocative, even if it 

1078
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:08,200
gets fewer eyes on me, because I
want to be accepting and 

1079
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:11,440
inclusive and welcoming to 
people who like I, I just had a 

1080
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:13,240
lot of people, individuals 
who've come to me through the 

1081
00:55:13,240 --> 00:55:15,600
podcast or even through 
coaching, who are like, I was 

1082
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:18,440
vegan for 10 years. 
I was a vegetarian until three 

1083
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:20,360
months ago. 
And I heard your podcast and 

1084
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:22,880
they don't feel intimidated to 
talk to me. 

1085
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:25,640
They don't feel like I'm going 
to try to like force something 

1086
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:28,520
extreme down their throats, no 
pun intended. 

1087
00:55:28,720 --> 00:55:33,280
So yes, that group is kind of 
growing and the understanding of

1088
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:37,840
it is growing, But I think that 
sometimes the extreme 

1089
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:41,160
presentation of it can actually 
hurt more than health. 

1090
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:43,120
And I think sometimes we lose 
sight of what we're really 

1091
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,880
trying to do. 
Like are we trying to provoke 

1092
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:48,920
people and shock people or are 
we trying to educate people and,

1093
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:51,000
and give them options to make 
them, you know? 

1094
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:55,040
Yeah, I can see how that someone
could just dismiss that because 

1095
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:57,560
of the shock factor alone. 
Yeah, that's just being kind of 

1096
00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:00,080
another tactic. 
Yeah, I mean, my hope with the 

1097
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:02,600
cookbook truly, and I've told 
people this is like you're 

1098
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:06,200
interested in in a meat based 
diet or eating more meat and you

1099
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:09,200
go on the Internet and you may 
see some shirtless guy in a 

1100
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:12,040
field eating raw liver and you 
think no, thank you. 

1101
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:15,240
And then maybe like, one or two 
steps down, you might find my 

1102
00:56:15,240 --> 00:56:19,120
book instead, because it's just 
the sort of more accessible, 

1103
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:22,320
realistic version of what 
they're also trying to do. 

1104
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:24,280
Yeah. 
I love that you bring up the 

1105
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:27,840
calorie restriction because I do
think that that was a big thing 

1106
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:30,320
several decades ago and it's 
still having an effect on 

1107
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:31,840
people. 
But I think there's such a 

1108
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:34,960
difference between calorie 
restriction and like trying to 

1109
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:37,200
either lose weight or manage 
your weight that way and like 

1110
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:40,760
truly nourishing your body and 
healing your metabolism. 

1111
00:56:41,240 --> 00:56:44,520
And, and I think there's this 
idea that like, you have to 

1112
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:47,720
restrict first in order to get 
to that place where where you're

1113
00:56:47,720 --> 00:56:50,480
healthy. 
But I would argue that you have 

1114
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:53,560
to like balance things first and
then that you're, you know, 

1115
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:56,280
getting healthier, losing the 
weight if you need to, whatever 

1116
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:58,400
will kind of be a natural result
of that. 

1117
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:00,640
What's your take? 
On I agree, I think it's it's 

1118
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:02,240
yeah, it's often kind of the 
opposite. 

1119
00:57:02,240 --> 00:57:05,600
People want to just like lose 
weight immediately 1st And and I

1120
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:09,000
think the big thing is really 
setting expectations when I work

1121
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:12,240
with clients that if you really 
want to do this the right way, 

1122
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:17,960
there's going to be some yeah, 
just just reframing of 

1123
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:19,120
expectations. 
It's a long game. 

1124
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:22,960
Yeah. 
And I think some of this goes to

1125
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:25,080
to there's the the cultural 
aspect. 

1126
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:30,200
The cultural side of it where so
many, the most common thing that

1127
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:33,680
that clients come to me that 
they want is they want to loose 

1128
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:35,800
that and build muscle and they 
want to do it at the same time. 

1129
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:39,120
And lots of people will tell you
that can be done. 

1130
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:43,760
And I will tell you that while 
it's possible, it is from 99% of

1131
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:47,680
people, not the fastest or most 
effective approach. 

1132
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:52,080
It's kind of like you're going 
to be doing two things in 1/2 

1133
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:56,360
hearted way, even if you don't 
intend to, instead of trying to 

1134
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:59,560
really do one thing properly 
with all of your focus and 

1135
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:03,360
attention and then sort of move 
into the next phase of what 

1136
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:05,720
you're trying to do. 
So what does that process look 

1137
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:09,000
like when you're training women 
and setting them up for for 

1138
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:11,520
success in that way? 
Is that which one comes first? 

1139
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:13,800
The building of the muscle, the 
losing of the fat. 

1140
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:17,120
Almost exclusively building 
muscle 1st and there's a couple 

1141
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:21,840
of reasons for it unless you 
have a a significant amount of 

1142
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:25,120
body fat to lose, maybe that's 
going to be more of a part of it

1143
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:28,040
initially, but the vast majority
of clients that's that's not the

1144
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:31,120
issue. 
First of all, building muscle 

1145
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:34,680
first is important because 
that's healthy skeletal muscle. 

1146
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:36,040
You've had Gabrielle on the 
podcast. 

1147
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:40,800
We know that this is important 
for our health to have skeletal 

1148
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:42,840
muscle. 
It's going to minimize injury. 

1149
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:45,160
It's going to minimize pain. 
It's going to help you live your

1150
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:48,160
life better. 
And for all of these women who 

1151
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:51,120
are coming to me and saying I 
want to look toned and look 

1152
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:55,960
better, what happens when they 
lose fat without gaining muscle?

1153
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:58,880
They get smaller, but they still
don't like the way they look 

1154
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:02,440
because in order for you to look
toned, you have to have muscle 

1155
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:04,440
first. 
And if you have spent your 

1156
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:08,960
entire life under eating and 
maybe chronic cardio and not 

1157
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:11,600
strength training and not 
focusing on building muscle, 

1158
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:13,800
you, there's no way on earth 
you're going to look toned. 

1159
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:16,480
You just, you just aren't. 
Some of it's semantics. 

1160
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:18,640
Some of it again, is like going 
back to understanding our 

1161
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:21,280
Physiology. 
And some of it is the language 

1162
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:23,960
that we that we speak and that 
with the way we talk about 

1163
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:26,400
ourselves and the way we talk 
about women and how they look. 

1164
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:30,320
And, you know, you never hear 
people describe men as toned. 

1165
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:33,960
You never hear people describe 
men as well. 

1166
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:38,600
These are good or bad words that
we ascribe only to women. 

1167
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:44,080
And it causes so much fear and 
uncertainty and, and you know, 

1168
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:47,160
so going back to the idea of 
like, build muscle first, lose 

1169
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:50,400
fat secondary. 
And often the fat loss will 

1170
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:53,160
happen as you're putting more 
muscle on your body. 

1171
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,360
Body fat is going to just sort 
of do its thing. 

1172
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:57,360
Yeah, the muscle actually. 
Helps you to lose. 

1173
00:59:57,400 --> 00:59:59,080
Fat. 
It can help you as an organ. 

1174
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:03,040
You also will look better at 
your current body fat level when

1175
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:05,160
you have some muscle on you 
because that is that sort of 

1176
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:07,880
universally. 
Appealing shape that everyone's 

1177
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:11,720
going for is kind of seeing the 
curves of muscles on your body. 

1178
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:15,440
And when you have muscle, how 
much fat you have starts to 

1179
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:18,720
matter a little bit less. 
But it also goes back to this, 

1180
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:21,320
this idea, and this is something
I talked about with my clients. 

1181
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:24,600
That is, you know, because they 
say I'm I'm worried about 

1182
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:25,880
getting bulky, right? 
That's a big. 

1183
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:28,520
Thing, yeah, talk to us about 
the the bulkiness concern that a

1184
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:30,680
lot of women have. 
So I have a lot of thoughts 

1185
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:33,280
about it, but one thing that's 
kind of coming up for me more 

1186
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:37,000
recently and that I I kind of 
pushed back with my clients is, 

1187
01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:42,080
is getting a little bit bigger. 
So horrible. 

1188
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:44,520
That's the worst thing you can 
imagine. 

1189
01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:47,800
Not losing your health, not 
losing your period because 

1190
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:51,840
you're not eating anything, not,
you know, losing your libido and

1191
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:55,120
and, you know, decreased 
fertility and all the stuff 

1192
01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:57,200
because you're under eating. 
People are doing that all day 

1193
01:00:57,200 --> 01:00:59,240
long. 
But the idea of potentially 

1194
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:02,960
eating a little bit more and 
building muscles that you maybe 

1195
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:06,040
have to buy a bigger pant size, 
there's nothing worse. 

1196
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:09,720
And that goes back to this 
really problematic fitness 

1197
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:15,600
culture that women inhabit, 
where it stops them from working

1198
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:17,240
hard enough to build the muscle 
that they want. 

1199
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:19,760
It stops them from eating the 
nourishing foods that can really

1200
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:23,240
improve their health. 
Because their number one fear is

1201
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:26,680
gaining weight, weighing more on
the scale, getting bigger. 

1202
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:28,760
And I just want to kind of 
challenge that. 

1203
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:31,800
I'm not telling anybody that 
they have to be bigger, bigger 

1204
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:35,280
bodies or that, you know, you 
shouldn't worry about being 

1205
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:37,720
overweight or whatever. 
I think everyone wants to look 

1206
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:41,120
good and everyone wants to be. 
Fit for anyone who's watching 

1207
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:44,640
right now or who's listening and
not watching like Ashley is not 

1208
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:47,160
a bulky like you're well get the
little bulk here these. 

1209
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:50,160
Days I'm not generally. 
A bulky person? 

1210
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:51,720
No, you're 5 months pregnant, 
but you're not. 

1211
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:55,640
But you're not like an overly 
like you're strong and you have 

1212
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:57,840
a body on your body. 
Over a decade. 

1213
01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:01,240
But you are not what I would 
call like a bulky. 

1214
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:04,880
It's very, it's very. 
And so it's really hard to 

1215
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:07,520
actually get like bulky. 
Well, that's the other thing I 

1216
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:12,320
would say is that again, anybody
who anybody who their main 

1217
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:15,560
concern is if I lift weights, I 
think I'll get bulky. 

1218
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:18,920
It kind of just shows that you 
probably don't know much about 

1219
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:22,320
strength training and weight 
lifting because even men have a 

1220
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:24,600
hard time getting bulky and 
that's usually what they're 

1221
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:26,760
trying to do. 
And it doesn't happen overnight.

1222
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:30,000
It's something we're like, it's 
weights for a month and all of a

1223
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:33,080
sudden, Oh no, you have too, too
much muscle already. 

1224
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:35,240
Like it's, it's absolutely going
to happen that way. 

1225
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:37,160
And, and it is a subjective 
thing too, right? 

1226
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:40,360
Because some people, depending 
on what your personal preference

1227
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:43,560
is, one person's bulky, maybe 
another person's perfect and, 

1228
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:47,640
and whatever, but whatever it is
that you think looks really 

1229
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:51,640
good, it, you will be able to 
regulate before you get ready, 

1230
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:53,800
right? 
Or beyond that are too big or 

1231
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:55,480
whatever. 
I, you know, I've had, I've had 

1232
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:58,720
women when I was in my more like
fitness, muscle building phase 

1233
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:00,080
of life. 
I've had women come up to me in 

1234
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:02,360
the gym and say like, Hey, can 
you help me? 

1235
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:04,760
Can you tell me what to do? 
Because I, I really want to get 

1236
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:07,160
strong and I want to like look 
muscular like you, but I don't 

1237
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:09,560
want to get bulky. 
And I'm like, OK, so you don't 

1238
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:11,480
think I'm bulky, right? 
No, of course not. 

1239
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:15,880
And I'm like, I have been trying
so hard for so long to build as 

1240
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:18,040
much muscle as possible. 
And this is what I ended up 

1241
01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:19,920
with. 
So don't worry about it. 

1242
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:24,800
Just it's, it should be the 
last, the least of your concerns

1243
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:26,960
is getting both. 
There are so many other things 

1244
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:30,200
we have to do. 
Yeah, don't worry about getting 

1245
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:32,320
too big. 
Can you speak to the importance 

1246
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:35,520
of building muscle and then 
maintaining muscle, especially 

1247
01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:36,840
as we age? 
Yeah. 

1248
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:41,680
So another reason why it, it 
really is of maybe more specific

1249
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:45,200
concern for women is like 2 
parts. 

1250
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:49,080
One being that, again, we kind 
of live in a culture that does 

1251
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:53,280
not necessarily encourage or 
prize women who are actively 

1252
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:55,320
trying to build muscle. 
And again, that is changing. 

1253
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:58,520
But still, we we do live in a 
culture where women like you 

1254
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:00,920
have to look feminine and you 
should probably be smaller. 

1255
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:04,640
And, you know, that's just sort 
of a concern for a lot of women 

1256
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:07,920
growing up. 
So they maybe are less inclined 

1257
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:11,960
to do the actual kinds of 
physical work that it takes to 

1258
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:15,200
build real muscle. 
Lifting weights, lifting weights

1259
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:16,880
weight, weight bearing exercise 
and. 

1260
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:23,320
Again, I don't want to to sort 
of talk negatively about other 

1261
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:27,000
fitness methodologies. 
If you really like Pilates, if 

1262
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:28,760
you really like yoga, those have
benefits. 

1263
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:32,000
They're wonderful and they can 
help improve a lot of different 

1264
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:34,400
things from mobility to 
flexibility and even strength. 

1265
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:37,480
But at the end of the day, 
again, when you have a knowledge

1266
01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:42,800
of Physiology, what it takes to 
actually put muscle tissue on 

1267
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:48,040
your body is really hard work 
and it involves a high level of 

1268
01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:50,520
intensity and exertion. 
So it doesn't necessarily mean 

1269
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:52,520
heavyweight because again, 
that's subjective. 

1270
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:57,000
It means you for you personally 
have to work really hard and 

1271
01:04:57,000 --> 01:04:58,560
challenge your muscle 
appropriately. 

1272
01:04:59,160 --> 01:05:02,320
And we just aren't, we as a 
larger society are not 

1273
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:04,000
necessarily encouraging women to
do that. 

1274
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:05,120
So that can look. 
Different. 

1275
01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:08,960
That can be like high weight, 
low reps, it can be like low 

1276
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:11,960
weight, high reps, or any kind 
of variation of that. 

1277
01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:14,680
Basically, I mean, there, there 
are some nuance in terms of like

1278
01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:19,080
if you're really trying to focus
on, you know, strength over 

1279
01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:21,240
hypertrophy, which is muscle 
building, they're not the same 

1280
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:23,720
thing. 
There are some tweaks and things

1281
01:05:23,720 --> 01:05:27,400
you can make to kind of, you 
know, make some changes, but. 

1282
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:30,120
That's what working like you 
would come into play to really 

1283
01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:34,000
get specific with your goals. 
But yeah, I it's like don't get 

1284
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:36,920
caught up in the specifics. 
The specific is that you need to

1285
01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:41,160
challenge the muscle 
appropriately to an appropriate 

1286
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:43,760
level and then you need to 
recover properly and you need to

1287
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:47,120
eat appropriately to to be able 
to build that muscle. 

1288
01:05:47,120 --> 01:05:49,400
That's what's important. 
And then like the sets and reps 

1289
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:51,080
part of it is sort of just 
detailed. 

1290
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:55,080
So anyway, it's important for 
women to be encouraged to do 

1291
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:57,880
this for that reason. 
And also because we again, 

1292
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:00,440
physiologically just we don't 
have as much muscle. 

1293
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:03,440
The average man is going to walk
around with a lot more muscle 

1294
01:06:03,640 --> 01:06:06,480
than we are without really 
working as hard. 

1295
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:10,520
And as we know sort of every 
decade that we are fortunate to 

1296
01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:14,680
continue to get older, we are, 
if we aren't trying to maintain 

1297
01:06:14,680 --> 01:06:16,760
it, we are going to lose 
skeletal muscle. 

1298
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:20,840
And again, another part of the 
nutritional element for women, 

1299
01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:24,880
because we are not as likely to 
eat as much red meat and animal 

1300
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:29,360
protein and we are not as likely
to really focus on building 

1301
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:33,320
muscle, we are more at risk. 
And because of our our hormonal 

1302
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:36,400
profile and all of these things,
we are more at risk for things 

1303
01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:40,280
like osteoporosis, which is bone
density issues and then 

1304
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:41,920
sarcopenia, which is muscle 
wasting. 

1305
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:47,640
So we start out with less and we
are at more risk to lose it as 

1306
01:06:47,640 --> 01:06:51,960
we get older as compared to men.
So it sounds a little scary, but

1307
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:55,400
really what it means is that 
whatever age you're at now, 

1308
01:06:55,720 --> 01:06:58,360
let's try to build some muscle, 
let's try to maintain some 

1309
01:06:58,360 --> 01:06:59,960
muscle. 
You can do that at any age. 

1310
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:02,400
It's not like, oh, I didn't do 
it in my 20s and 30s. 

1311
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:05,080
So what's the point? 
You can absolutely gain muscle 

1312
01:07:05,080 --> 01:07:07,680
at any age and you can also 
maintain it. 

1313
01:07:07,680 --> 01:07:10,800
And it may get more challenging 
depending on what phase of life 

1314
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:13,800
you're in, but it's absolutely 
possible and it's absolutely 

1315
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:17,600
worthwhile and it is going to 
help your health. 

1316
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:20,760
And also the the idea of sort of
the health span versus lifespan 

1317
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:24,680
thing, because we all know that 
we can, because of technology, 

1318
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:28,040
we can live a long time and not 
be very healthy and not enjoy a 

1319
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:31,240
quality of life. 
Yeah, modern medicine is really 

1320
01:07:31,240 --> 01:07:34,680
good at keeping us alive and not
necessarily thriving. 

1321
01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:36,560
And enjoying our life. 
And I think, you know, there's a

1322
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:40,920
lot of, for lack of a better 
word, like the degradation of 

1323
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:43,440
our body as we get older that we
see as inevitable. 

1324
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:46,960
That is like everybody knows 
that an 80 year old is maybe 

1325
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:49,080
going to look and perform a 
little differently than a 30 

1326
01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:52,480
year old. 
But this idea that you are going

1327
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:56,600
to be full of aches and pains 
that you cannot, you know, enjoy

1328
01:07:56,600 --> 01:08:00,200
your life and do outdoor sports 
and move your body and, and do 

1329
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:01,800
the things you want to do as you
get older. 

1330
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:06,720
That's not true. 
If you continue and consistently

1331
01:08:06,840 --> 01:08:11,280
do the right things and work to 
maintain the the level of health

1332
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:14,680
that you want to enjoy. 
And it's really so much about 

1333
01:08:14,680 --> 01:08:18,600
just trying to do the right 
thing consistently most of the 

1334
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:21,560
time for the rest of your life. 
It's not about being perfect 

1335
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:24,200
today. 
It's not about never eating 

1336
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:28,319
something sweet or never making 
a day off or you know it. 

1337
01:08:28,319 --> 01:08:33,000
It's just about trying to do the
right thing for your body most 

1338
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:36,920
of the time, kind of forever, 
which you know, I love that it's

1339
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:38,240
not that scary. 
It really isn't. 

1340
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:40,439
I think that takes, I think that
takes some of the pressure off 

1341
01:08:40,439 --> 01:08:45,080
because one, one day of 
indulgence or relaxation or one 

1342
01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:48,040
week of going on vacation or 
whatever, that doesn't matter in

1343
01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:50,439
the grand scheme of things if 
you've committed to these 

1344
01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:52,760
lifestyle behaviours that you 
just, it's just your life. 

1345
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:55,560
It's just how you live. 
I could not agree more. 

1346
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:59,840
And for a topic that some people
may think of as as being kind of

1347
01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:02,120
extreme, obviously you and I 
would disagree with that. 

1348
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:05,680
But you know, organ meats and I 
think that in general, just your

1349
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:09,880
whole perspective is so balanced
and you have done such a good 

1350
01:09:09,880 --> 01:09:14,600
job with it takes guts and like 
finding these ancestral recipes 

1351
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:17,000
and practices and talking to all
of these different people and 

1352
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:20,479
then making it accessible and 
palatable, like literally 

1353
01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:23,479
palatable for people. 
I think so you've just done such

1354
01:09:23,479 --> 01:09:26,439
a great job with that. 
So thank you so much for for 

1355
01:09:26,439 --> 01:09:29,560
sharing your message today with 
the grounded Wellness audience. 

1356
01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:32,760
Where can people follow along 
with you and buy your amazing 

1357
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:34,240
books? 
Thank you so much. 

1358
01:09:34,279 --> 01:09:37,520
It's been so lovely being here 
and I, I really appreciate you 

1359
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:40,240
having me on. 
So this has been wonderful. 

1360
01:09:41,319 --> 01:09:43,720
You can, I mean, you can find 
anything you need to know on my 

1361
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:45,359
website. 
It's just my name, Ashley Van 

1362
01:09:45,359 --> 01:09:47,240
houten.com. 
My books are there. 

1363
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:50,279
All the information about my 
coaching, my strength training 

1364
01:09:50,279 --> 01:09:54,200
programs, it's all on there. 
I have my own podcast. 

1365
01:09:54,200 --> 01:09:56,720
It's called Muscle Science for 
Women and you can hear that 

1366
01:09:56,720 --> 01:10:00,160
anytime anywhere you listen to 
podcasts, the books or anywhere 

1367
01:10:00,160 --> 01:10:03,480
that you buy books. 
And you can say hi to me on 

1368
01:10:03,480 --> 01:10:05,560
Instagram. 
That's I'm a millennial, so I 

1369
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:08,320
really can't go anywhere else. 
I can't do tick tock I I'm stuck

1370
01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:12,120
on. 
So you can find me on Instagram 

1371
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:14,960
at the Muscle Maven and say hi 
to me there And that's. 

1372
01:10:15,480 --> 01:10:16,560
Amazing. 
Thanks, Ashley. 

1373
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:16,880
Thank you.