But sometimes it's the smallest sort of tweak or change or
product that can just make you so happy and alleviate some of
the stress that you may be feeling.
Hi everyone. I'm Ronnie.
And I'm Jessica. And you're listening to Clean
with me. The podcast where we walk you
through cleaning your house. Thanks for joining us.
We have a special guest on today's episode and he's known
on Instagram as Tidy Dad. Well, thank you all for having
me. I love the title of your
podcast, Clean with Me because I feel like every day I sort of
invite watchers on Instagram to sort of come into my house.
We might I share a small apartment with my wife and three
daughters in New York via like time lapse that just can inspire
and motivate people. So by day, I'm a New York City
teacher. I teach 5th grade.
I teach at the same school where my daughters attend.
So I know full well the struggles that sometimes come
with working outside of the home and then also balancing
everything that has to happen inside the home.
And I also know full well what it's like to live with little
walking tornadoes. That's the little joke that I
call my daughters because it's almost like they're tornadoes.
You turn your back for one minute and then it seems like
everything is in a tizzy. But they certainly give me a lot
of things to clean. And then, as my daughters get
older, I'm also beginning to involve them in the process,
too. Right, I have daughters too, so
definitely can relate to that. Definitely tornadoes.
So how so you do live in New York City, so that you mentioned
there's probably a lot of storage things going on.
So how do you maximize storage in your apartment?
Yeah. So I feel like our apartment is
this constantly evolving sort of puzzle.
And years ago, you know, my wife and I, we really wrestled with,
is our apartment gonna be home for the long term?
Are we gonna make life in this small space work?
And so we've really had to think about how to maximize space
really for efficiency, but also for accessibility because we
have 3 little girls, we want them to have access to the
things that we want them to have access to and then also have the
other things that are up and away that they can't get their
little hands into. And so over the years, we've
really had to think strategically about what to do
in each of our spaces. We also share one small bathroom
for the five of us. So for many listeners, they may
be able to either identify with or they may scream and say, are
you kidding me? It's five people sharing that
one bathroom. You know, So we've really had to
think one about decluttering it. You know, it's constantly sort
of evaluating what comes in, what goes out.
Because I do feel like when you're thinking about any sort
of mess, you cannot clean if things don't have a home or if
you feel like you're just staring at piles of clutter.
And often times when people ask me about cleaning, they're like,
what are the tips for being efficient?
You know, how can I feel like I'm not spending these hours and
hours cleaning? And I do feel like it goes back
to that initial point that you made.
It goes back to organizing, when everything has a place, when
you're able to tidy and put things away, that then makes
cleaning so much more efficient. And so in my book, Tidy Up Your
Life, I have a whole chapter on the order of things, which
really breaks down the relationship between organizing
and tidying and cleaning. Because I often find that if
cleaning feels like this overwhelming headache, often
times the root cause of that can be in the clutter that may be
sitting around, or in the routines that are in place for
putting things back after they've been used.
Right. Yeah, I, I'm coming from a very
small apartment with one bathroom and moved into a bigger
duplex. But I had to, I wasn't as
creative with organization and stuff.
And we really just downsized and went down to the bare bones.
So I really wish I would have looked into more storage spaces
and stuff like that because I want people to know that, like
you, you don't have to just go down to bare bones and just
completely be a minimalist to exist in that kind of space.
Yeah. And I think that that's a really
important point that I try to also talk about in Chapter 2 of
the book, which is about establishing this idea of what
is just enough that for many people, minimalism can be
something that's like inspirational or motivational
for them. But as a parent with three young
kids, I felt like that pursuit of the bare minimum, it actually
felt very defeating because there's nothing like birthdays
or the change of a new season or holiday times to come.
And you realize that there's always going to be this cycle of
new things coming in and then things going out.
And so we've tried to establish this philosophy of what is just
enough. And it's that idea of being able
to name is just enough in any given particular category for
this season of life. And so for right now, you know,
we have allocated space for dress up clothes in the
bathroom. We have the little, you know,
makeup kits. And they love their little like,
fake nail press ONS that I was cleaning the bathtub yesterday
and I found a nail in the bottom of the bathtub after my youngest
daughter had just taken a bath. And I'm like, who is washing
themselves with those fake nails on, You know?
So right now we're in this really busy sort of hectic
season. But I do feel like the things
that I am in control of or like my own wardrobe, my own things
that I bring in and out, like I can pare down quite a bit of my
own sort of material possessions in the real estate that I take
up in our home. And that's in service of these
little girls who are growing and changing and need many different
things in this current season. And so I do feel like that's an
interesting point that you bring up because it's not just about
sometimes editing, editing, editing down to the bare, you
know, minimum. As parents, we all have enough
to deal with. You know, we can't go through
just this idea of editing, editing, editing all the time.
But there is this way that we can sort of rethink our
approach. And I do feel like establishing
if it's just enough mindset can help.
I really like that that just enough.
That's that's exactly how my I feel about it too, because
getting rid of stuff is still important for living in any size
house, but you still don't want to get rid of things that you
use day-to-day and stuff that brings you joy.
But the just enough is perfect. I love that.
Yeah, it's definitely a balanced approach and I've, I've always
found it challenging. I've lived in a lot of different
houses and with the smaller ones, the storage is always an
issue with kids. And I'm not an extreme
minimalist either. I, I like that on, on your
Instagram, I saw that your kids do have like their little
kitchen and little toys and so they've got all that stuff, but
you're just keeping it contained.
Basically and, and you know, in our apartment, so our apartment
was built in 1914. So that was before the time of
any sort of closets. And it's interesting because now
in most American homes, you can't actually count a bedroom.
It has to have a couple things that needs to have a window and
it needs to have a built in closet.
Well, whoever built our apartment building, we do have
the windows, but we don't have any of the closets.
So we've had to really think strategically about what to do.
And so we've had to design and bring in different wardrobe
systems and really thinking about how to use the vertical
space in our, you know, we have really tall ceilings.
And so we have wardrobes that are over 100 inches tall, which
amounts to between like 8 to 9 feet.
And so we've had to think strategically about then how to
allocate real estate within those wardrobes.
And I think sometimes, you know, we see a space, it inherently
feels overwhelming because we don't feel like we have the
adequate closet space or we don't have the adequate cabinets
that are built in. And so I'd encourage people that
you really do have to think, you know, sort of flexibly about how
are you going to use the space? What are the different furniture
pieces that you can bring in? Because we've even found in New
York City that not all square footage is treated equally.
And you may have what you feel like is this 800,000 square foot
place, but the rooms are all really small or you feel like
the layout is just completely off.
I mean, in New York City, we're dealing with radiator poles and
windows that open into the shaft that we share with the next
building. And like the bedroom that my
wife and I share, we actually have the smallest bedroom in our
apartment. We've given the girls the larger
bedroom because they needed the square footage.
We didn't, but we're in a railroad style, which means that
you walk through every room is essentially a glorified hallway.
So like our bedroom, the bedroom that my wife and I share, it's
actually the hallway that leads from our playroom into our
daughter's room. And so it's important for
listeners to know because I think sometimes when you know
one, when you write a book, there are these assumptions
that, OK, here's another person who has this perfectly put
together life who isn't dealing with some of the limitations or
constraints that I might have. I'm here to let everybody know
that we are in the thick of it in terms of dealing with
logistical challenges, space issues.
We're constantly sort of evolving, but I do feel like the
puzzle is sort of fun. You know, it's fun to figure out
what can I do with this wardrobe?
What can I do with this tiny corner?
The girls are now taller. What can I do in order to
maximize a bit more vertical space?
So that puzzle, it's sort of fun.
And so as I'm cleaning, I'm always sort of thinking and
dreaming up how else we could use the space.
I love that I did. I noticed that in one of your
videos where you said your kids were growing so your your
storage spaces and stuff that they have access to are also
getting taller. Yeah.
And I I do completely agree with you, you got to work with what
you have because like you said, every house, every situation is
different and specific to the person.
And so often people are like, well, why don't you just move?
And I'm like, well, why don't you ask me a questions that
that's that's actually helpful? Because that question isn't very
helpful because like in New York City and in many places, we're
like, what are you going to do with that one bathroom?
Why don't you go get a second one?
And I'm like, OK, the price that I would have to pay for my
apartment would literally be double in order to get that
second bathroom. And then what would be the
actual cost to us as a family? How would that inherently
change, you know, hours at work, things that we're able to do,
adventures that we go on in order to have that second
bathroom when we can really just works, work on maximizing the
space and also just sort of ruthlessly editing at times in
order to make it work? I love that you constantly
evolve and change and every season of life is different as
your kids grow, as your stuff changes.
Like you said, you're constantly bringing stuff in and out with
birthdays and whatnot, so involving is a big key in
staying organized and decluttered.
I completely agree with you there.
What are some must haves do you think in having a small space?
What are some things that you think you can't live without?
So I think in terms of small space, what I often say is that
inches, millimeters and centimeters really matter.
So before we ever go to the store, before we go to the
online shopping, before we go to Amazon, we always pull out our
tape measure because, for example, even our bathroom
cabinet over the summer, we've been trying to get our landlord
for the past 10 years to give us a new vanity.
And what made it work was last spring, I had a huge sort of
cleaning disaster because. And I think that listeners can
relate to this. It was we were about to leave
for school. You know, the toilet became
clogged. My daughter's didn't know what
to do. It then started to overflow.
It overflowed and it started to leak into our downstairs
neighbors bathroom. They called me all really mad
and upset. So I took down my wet dry vac,
which is one of my number one why I didn't have one from the
start. And I know that the technology
is just getting better and better and better.
But I took that wet dry vac downstairs and I cleaned their
bathroom for them and then I called my landlord and I was
like, we've really got to do something about this floor.
So over the summer they put down a brand new tile floor and they
also brought in a brand new vanity.
And when I tell you on each side of the vanity, they added 6
inches of storage space, which gave us a foot more storage
space underneath the sink with just transformed everything.
So we were able to bring in those like clear acrylic drawers
because drawers in a small space are like a precious commodity.
So we were able to stack them on top of one another.
Everybody has a drawer for the different things that they need.
We have a drawer also for some back stock items.
But when you're in a small space, you have to be strategic
about any sort of organization piece that you bring in and you
better measure because those inches, millimeters, those
centimeters really count. And so I do feel like, you know,
often times, whether you live in a small space or a large space,
you see a mess or you see clutter in your house.
And the first thing that you want to go and do is go and buy
that brand new thing that you think is going to solve all of
your problems. But actually what solves the
problem is sitting with the mess in the 1st place.
And I outline it in my book, you know, a process for
decluttering, which is this idea of you've got to clear the
space. You then need to sort
everything. You then need to assess what you
have and then make a plan for what you're going to keep and
what you move out. And so often people start with
purchasing that new item before they have cleared anything,
thinking that that's going to solve a problem.
And then it actually creates more problems because now they
have that item that they purchased that doesn't actually
solve the problem. And then it's this like
perpetual cycle. That's a really important point,
is that I love that there's an order of operations to things.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, you don't want to add to the clutter with another piece
of furniture without going through the stuff first.
That's very important. Now I.
Wanted to ask you so you are a man that has a huge cleaning
influence influencer account. I want to know how did that get
started and what kind of what you're all about.
Yeah, so as Tidy Dad, I started sharing back in 2019.
And my goal with sharing was actually because I'm a teacher
by day, but I thought that I was going to teach in our
neighborhood in New York City, like classes for parents and
kids on how do you organize and how do you clean?
And so I launched my Instagram as a way to promo those events.
I secured the space, I got all of my props.
And then I went to the space and I had like two people show up.
But then I went and looked back at my post and I was like, hey,
15 people liked that. So there's that's 13 more people
that saw the post than the people who actually came.
And so I thought maybe there's something to, especially for
busy families and parents and individuals or professionals,
like maybe there is something to just sharing some of these tips
online. And so I started mainly just
sharing, organizing and tidying things, you know, strategies
that worked in our space. But then I started to get
questions about what do you do with this around the house?
How do you clean this? And it really started to develop
based off of people's questions. And so, you know, I was a dad
with, at the time, two young kids, and I decided that I was
going to stop the marathon cleaning on Saturdays.
That was my background before I had kids.
I used to look forward to that marathon clean on Saturdays
because it was the way for me to like, process the stress of the
week. It felt really good to work from
one room to the next. But then I realized that once
you have kids, if you can do anything for a sustained period
of time, why in the world are you going to choose to clean
your house? And it's The Walking tornadoes
analogy. Like if I was cleaning for two
hours, that meant either my wife was watching the girls or they
were making messes all around me.
So I took that cleaning, that marathon clean, and I thought,
what might it look like to clean one area of the house each
weekday? So I thought, let's clean the
bathroom on Monday, the kitchen on Tuesday, the living room on
Wednesday, the bedrooms on Thursday, and then our play room
on Friday, and will that make a difference?
And then I thought, what if I set a timer and I set a timer
for like 15 to 20 minutes? Am I able to race against the
clock and really make my methods and my process as efficient as
possible? And so that's when Tidy Dad
really started to take off because I think people resonated
with, you know, be it a dad or a mom, like I'm a working parent.
We have all of these kids at home.
I'm balancing career with home life with trying to feel like a
human. And I do think that people can
relate to realistic, practical strategies and just naming for
them, you know, some of the struggles that I go through as a
teacher and just being able to speak from that vulnerable
place, I think it helped people to almost see themselves
reflected in what they saw on the screen.
And so that's when I really saw Tidy Dad start to take off
because I think that, you know, now it's 2024, it's been almost
six years, you know, since I started.
And I think that people really just want authenticity and
vulnerability, but also feel like they see people who are in
the thick of it that are in the struggle too.
And, you know, I'm someone that experience is sort of the highs
and lows of parenthood and work. I experienced my fair share of
messes, but I'm also somebody who really enjoys a solid rage
clean or, you know, just says in the morning, like on Monday
morning, there's nothing like working through the struggles
that I know about to go through by just scrubbing the bathtub or
cleaning the toilet. And it's nice to step away
knowing that if I've done, if I accomplished nothing else that
day, at least my toilet bowl was clean for a short period of
time. And then I'll clean it again the
next week. Yeah, I, I, I think that the
draw, the thing that draws the men on you is that you're a man
in the, in this space that there's not a lot of big
influencers that have a cleaning platform and then they stay
because of your relatability and how helpful you are.
And sometimes it like, like you said, the timing thing, I mean,
that's a big one with me, the timing, your cleans and stuff
like that. And I'm sure that you've helped
so many people. With your with your videos,
because cleaning is a big issue for a lot of people and if you
don't have a plan and you don't have a good routine and stuff,
it really can affect your day-to-day, your mental health
and everything like that. So.
Yeah, I totally agree. And it's what I've enjoyed about
writing the book was because so often people were like, where
can I go for all of the different tips that you
mentioned? And now it's like, well, here is
a resource. Now your children or the people
you live with are going to come up with lots of different
messes. There are all of these
calamities of, you know, issues that people go through.
But that was one of the fun things about the book.
The second-half of the book, tidy up your space.
We work room by room, and so I outline The Dirty dozen of each
space because The Dirty dozen that you experience in your
bedroom is a little bit different than The Dirty dozen
you might experience in the kitchen or in the bathroom.
But one of the things that I love is just telling people like
these are the things that you really need to care about in
each of your spaces. And the kitchen, for example,
people are like, but I don't think my kitchen sink is that
dirty. Like that's where I always wash
the dishes. And it's like if you do research
or if you talk to the scientist, they will tell you that that
kitchen sink is one of the dirtiest places in your kitchen
when people are like, so do I really need to move my stove,
you know, and like clean underneath?
And I'm like, absolutely. Have you noticed a little gaps
that are between the counter and do you know the stove?
And so that's what's fun is because I feel like, you know,
people just need to be shown or told what to do and then people
will sort of like try it out and do it.
Even something like checking your filters that like knowing
how the appliances in your homework is so important.
Even you know, because we also have a cottage in Pennsylvania.
So we have our apartment in New York City.
We own our cottage. We run it out as an Airbnb.
So we have lots of different people coming in and out of our
space. For years, my wife and I were
the primary cleaners. So that's where some of my
cleaning expertise comes from because when you manage whole
house flips after, you know, renters and all of them coming
into the space and all of the stains and spills and again,
fake eyelashes, fake fingernails, dog food that you
find even when it's a dog free rental, you know, you have to
figure out what do you do in order to get the different
stains out. And so I do feel like that
expertise and I'll bring with me to the book because it's so
important to know what to do, especially when things go wrong.
You would definitely have a really unique perspective and
you have insight that most people maybe don't have because
of the Airbnb. And that's really interesting to
think about because you're not even just thinking about your
specific families, cleaning issues.
You have everybody's pretty much.
Yeah. And it's like I learned the
power, as you all probably know of like dish soap, cold water
and a brush to get out almost any stain between chocolate or
blood or even sometimes like grass.
And like, it's just been interesting to sort of treat the
house like an experiment. It's sort of like my laboratory.
And it's like, what can I use in order to get the things out?
But I do feel proud of myself. And I think that it's something
that, you know, people can learn to do because one of the things
that I talked about in the book, and we touched on this a little
bit earlier, it's this idea of a man cleaning, you know, in
2024-2025 still stops people in their tracks.
And I get questions all the time about from followers who are
like, why are you the one cleaning?
Why isn't your wife cleaning? And I'm like, first of all, do
you not understand how much work goes into raising 3 little
children, managing a home, both of us managing our careers?
Like, why people are still asking that question to me is
just sort of shocking but also revealing because I think that a
lot of times the pressure gets placed on women for the
aesthetics of a home, managing our home, You know, there are so
many societal norms. And as a dad of three daughters,
I'm really proud of the fact that when there's a mess, they
ask me what to do to clean it up.
Or in the mornings when they discover me, they find me.
Like, scrubbing out the toilet like that is something that they
can go into their future. You know, when someone says,
hey, you need to clean that toilet, they can then say in
return, what's stopping you? You know, So I am mindful of
that. And it's one of the things that
we write, I write about in the book, this idea of distributing
work and how we manage sort of like the mental load that we all
carry. And I do think that it's
important to talk with the people that you live with, you
know, about how are you going to balance roles and
responsibility? Is there somebody that really
just enjoys cleaning and somebody else who finds it a
complete chore? But also, if no one in your
house enjoys cleaning, that doesn't mean that you just can't
live in a clean space. Like you've got to figure out
the mechanics of how do you clean?
When are you going to clean? Who's going to clean?
Having those conversations is so important.
Yeah, and I think that's why it's you're so important as an
individual because people have something to look at that's not
the societal norm even in today's day and age.
Like you said that people don't see that a whole lot.
And it's important that people know that from from just
watching your videos. They'll gather that, you know,
everybody needs to contribute to the household and it's not
always black and white. Yeah, totally.
It depends on what's going on in your specific household and
situation for sure. Yeah, people often assume that
we do all the cleaning at our houses just because we have a
cleaning podcast. But Jessica knows this as my
daughter. My husband does a lot of
cleaning, too, and it's a ton of work, especially the larger your
family is. I've got three kids still living
at home, so the five of us all have different tasks and it is
partly based on who enjoys what. I definitely try to, you know,
distribute that, you know, distribute the OR divide the
chores that way. Yeah.
And you know, one of the questions I get from parents
with kids is they're like, well, what if my child is resistant to
it? Or like, what if, what if
someone doesn't want to help out with the tidying or the
cleaning? And I think that Frank
conversation that we've had to have with our daughters is
really this idea of like family and how do we want to spend
time. And, you know, on the weekends,
we live in New York City, one of the greatest cities in the
world, and we want to get out and enjoy and do things.
When we're at our place in Pennsylvania, we want to be able
to go swim and hike and spend time outdoors in nature.
And so we've really had to talk about how do we work effectively
as a family? How do we all contribute in ways
and that, you know, fair isn't always equal because we've had
to talk about that with my girls.
My oldest is 9, my youngest is 4.
And like what we ask of my 4 year old does look very
different from my 9 year old. And I had an A question on
Instagram last spring. You know, I was disinfecting the
girls baby dolls because those baby dolls go with us
everywhere. And I was cleaning and someone
was like, why are you still doing that?
Why are your daughters not cleaning?
And I'm like, you know, there are certain things that I still
don't want my daughters to handle when we're talking about
cleaning. There are lots of different
products. There are different things that
they use. You know, wiping down the table
is something that I feel is age appropriate, you know, but I'm
not giving them just full reign of my whole, you know, sort of
stock of cleaners. But yet them being able to tidy
their baby dolls, them being able to sort their laundry and
then fold it and put it away. Them knowing when I walk in from
school, I put my shoes in the shoe tray.
I hang up my backpack. I put my fold.
I, you know, I pull out from my folder important papers that I
need mom and dad to have. I put them on the table.
All of those are different examples of tabs, tasks that
really do help us achieve our overall goal as a family, which
is like creating more space for what's important.
And I love cleaning, but when we're ranking like values in our
life, we wouldn't put cleaning over time with others
experiencing new things, feeling like we have time to be a human.
You know, cleaning is a necessity, but we need to be
able to work together in order to make space for those other
things that are really important.
Yeah. And I like you said, I think
that just as important as giving them little tasks and stuff like
that is your attitude towards cleaning.
It really impacts them and frames what they're going to
believe about cleaning and how they think about it for the rest
of their lives. Like my mom was saying about my
dad, my husband is somebody that's very into cleaning as
well. And that's probably because.
So yeah, I think that showing your kids that it's not a dirty
word, cleaning isn't a dirty word or whatever, that it's not
always and it's very, very needed and necessary and it's
just a part of life and it could be a positive part of life is
important, too, for them to be good cleaners.
Yeah. And I do feel like, you know,
talking about your dad and also your husband that like, it isn't
just that they may necessarily love cleaning, but there may be
other values, you know, values around space and time and
appreciation. Like, all of those are values
that are beneath this idea of recognizing, you know, what
cleaning gives you. And I feel like, you know, we
see it so often. There's this pervasive sort of
like culture where spouses are made fun of, of like, yeah,
there goes my husband again. Like, you should see his side of
the bed. Stuff is just out everywhere.
But look at my side of the bed. It's pristine.
And I do feel like some of those stereotypes and also the jokes
that can be made are actually really, there's something much
deeper there, which is this fundamental.
Sometimes this either like I don't know if it's disrespect,
but just this not showing care for others that I do feel like
is so very important. So I can see why you would look
for that quality and you know of a spouse in your husband because
it goes back to both your mom and dad and values that they
showed you growing up because you're busy, you have interest,
you have hobbies. But it shouldn't just be on you
to clean everything. And it's not your job to clean
up after someone who is fully capable of being able to clean
up after themselves. Right.
That's an important value. And like you said, I'm sure it
had an impact on many other things besides just my attitude
on cleaning. And the same thing for the
future generations. Our kids, we want to show them
that if something's not working, we need to just evolve the
system like you said. And I think that's why I love
your book and really relate to it because the step by step is
definitely what our podcast is all about.
And just talking about these ideas as well as just actual
cleaning hacks as well is. Yeah.
And, you know, tidying to me, you know, there are the two
parts. There's the like, tidying up
your mind and also tidying up your space.
And I do feel like, you know, we were talking about those seasons
of life where you really sort of enjoy cleaning.
And part of my own story is I had a, you know, I had my issues
with mental health and especially when I became, you
know, a new dad that there were all of I write in the book about
how my head and my heart was rewired in ways that I couldn't
really have imagined. And as so often happens, you
know, I had upsized the size of my family.
I had also upsized my career. I had been a teacher for a long
time. But then I felt pressure to move
into administration because that's where you earn more
money, you take on more positional power, which then
deems you as more successful to other people.
And so that really did 'cause this sort of like crisis for me
because I was like, on the one hand, I know that I want to
provide well for my family, but on the other hand, I feel like
all of these additional responsibilities are actually
taking time away from the people and the things that I really
want. And it's when something, and I
know that it sounds, it can sound silly, but there's
something like cleaning in the early morning time, which is
normally when I was cleaning, that would just give me a little
bit of clarity on life. And I feel like sometimes with
cleaning, you're able to exercise a little bit of
control. And we've all gotten into fights
with our grout or with some sort of like grease stain that's
underneath the hood of our stove.
But it's like in that fight, in that struggle, sometimes it can
reveal something else about ourselves or just give us a
little bit of mental space to just sort of process.
And so that's what I do feel like cleaning, you know, in
addition to other sort of like mental health strategies.
It has always given me sort of like a safe space.
And even now, you know, I've tidied up aspects of my life.
I've returned back to the classroom and teaching.
I feel like that then gave me more time and space for the
things that really matter. But I'm still in the thick of it
between parent teacher conferences or observation
seasons or lessons that go wrong or just now dealing with like
babies are hard. But now older children in some
ways are even harder. The like mental puzzle of
figuring out what to do that often times if you know, I know
if I didn't have that early morning cleaning, I don't know
when I would have the alone time to like process and think.
And when I say alone time, I mean, I still set my alarm to go
off before my daughter's. So I'm up cleaning every day
between 4:45 and 5:00 AM. But I instinctively know I start
and brew that cup of coffee and then I have my little cleaning
checklist. I grab my supplies and I just
start working through. But I know that I have that 15
minutes to sort of ground and center myself.
And so I know for listeners that they may listen to your podcast,
they may listen to audio video books, they may just enjoy the
silence of the morning. But I do feel like cleaning can
give you that sort of like cathartic sort of break and also
exert a little bit of control on things as stubborn as grout.
Yeah, that's that's a really important point is because I
think a lot of times even in the podcast, I focus more on how the
the impact of having a clean house has on your mental health.
But actually using your cleaning time and your active cleaning
and also making it a time where you can reflect on yourself and
be alone with your thoughts and stuff like you said, and use
that as well will give you more of a positive look outlook on
cleaning. I love that.
And if you're cleaning against a timer, it's almost like an
aerobic workout. Yeah.
You know, that, Like, it is something that can act.
You know, I just feel like it has so many benefits, mental and
also physical that like, I don't know when people are like, are
you just a dad who's obsessed with cleaning?
I'm like, well, a little like I do want my daughter, you know, I
want my family to have a clean space.
But also, I don't know, I just feel like there are so many
benefits to the actual act of cleaning just for your mental
health, your physical well-being, and so many aspects
of life. I love that.
I hope that our listeners hear this and they know that they
really learn to love cleaning and fall in love with cleaning
and use it to help them, like you said, mentally and also
physically. And it'll just it.
It's good to keep up with it for a plethora of reasons, and I
think that'll be outlined in your book.
A lot of our listeners kind of struggle with the cleaning
duties in the kitchen, keeping up on dishes and things like
that. What are your best tips in the
kitchen? Yeah, well, Speaking of dishes,
you know, our apartment was built in 1914, so you're looking
at the dishwasher because it is me or my wife.
So every single dish has to be hand washed in our apartment.
So, you know, I've become very strategic about, you know, just
not allowing things to pile up. And I think that the the dishes
is like a metaphor for other things.
You know in your home that it's very easy, you know, after you
have finished breakfast to just put those dishes in the empty
sink and just allow things to pile up as they go throughout
your day. But then snack time will come,
lunchtime will come, then dinner, which comes with all of
the prep dishes, all of the actual serving dishes.
And so that's when you know, little bitty habits can actually
then lead to something that feels completely overwhelming.
So, you know, with dishes, you know, we've really had to think
strategically during the day about who's washing dishes, when
is it happening? But what we always try to do is
wash immediately after, you know, sort of the meal, which
then allows things to dry and then get put away in preparation
for the next meal to come. But also when you're thinking
about dinner, you know, this is going back to the timer analogy.
And I do think for some people, timers are really motivational.
For other people, it just may not work.
But when I'm cooking dinner, I also am sort of constantly sort
of like cooking and prepping while also cleaning at the same
time because my goal is to have all of the prep dishes washed
and dry so that while we're eating, once everything is
finished, we can then put the dishes away and then wash those
new things to come. And so again, I love that you
brought up washing dishes because I do feel like that is
one of those routines that can have an impact on so many other
aspects of life. And if you can start to think
about like what does the dishwashing routine teach me?
How can I apply what I've just learned here to other things?
Like you can apply that to laundry and the pile of, of
laundry just piling up literally.
Or maybe you're really good at washing and putting things into
the dryer. But then once the things are in
the dryer, they're just sitting there again, which then causes
this like backlog. Like we all have those things
that we're sort of like working on.
But I have become somewhat of a dishwashing expert because I
literally have to wash every single dish.
Definitely feel either. I'm in hand washing mode right
now myself so. But it's when.
It is kind of kind of cathartic I guess though.
But I don't know, you know, there's so many philosophies and
everybody has their favorite products.
But Speaking of dishwashing, like I just discovered that like
Cascade spray, that it's the spray dishwashing liquid that I
went to. You know, being in New York
City, I get invited to some cool places sometime and I went to
the Good Housekeeping Institute. You know, they give, they always
give their seals of approval. And so I got to walk through
with their resident cleaning expert and I, she sent me home
with that Cascade spray and wash stuff.
And I was like, I have seen this.
I don't know if I buy into the hype, but my goodness, I'm like,
I've been washed. I've been standing at this sink
and I've been washing dishes in this apartment for over 13 years
now. And so I've been using that even
as like the spray on the top of the stove sometimes on the
table, like after we've eaten spaghetti, I've just been
spraying it down. And it's such a simple sort of
like fix that again goes back to dishwashing, that sometimes it's
the smallest sort of tweak or change or product that can just
make you so happy and alleviate some of the stress that you may
be feeling. I'm like that too.
If I find like a new product, it makes me want to clean a lot
more because I'm like, oh, I want to use this new sponge I
got or whatever. Something else you mentioned
when you're talking about the dishwashing, and I think you had
a video on this on your Instagram or as you were talking
about like anchor routines and I was, you were talking about
dishwashing being, being an anchor chore to making dinner.
And that I like I clean out my refrigerator every time I'm
about to get groceries. So that's my anchor chore too.
So I think it's important to have these anchor routines and
chores and stuff to kind of build good habits and routines.
So I love that you mention that. Yeah.
And I think that for listeners, because I'm sure that there are
some people who are listening because they aspire to clean or
they want to feel less overwhelmed.
And, you know, an analogy that I draw in the book is that
routines are like layers. Like if you've ever painted
furniture, this is an analogy that I use.
Like when painting furniture, it's really important that you
first, like, strip the furniture.
You know, you have to make the surface ready for paint, but you
can't just slop these, you know, really thick coats of paint that
you have to put on, light coats with ample time to dry before
you then sometimes sand again and then apply the next coat.
And so for me, you know, those anchor routines, they are things
that I've gradually layered on, you know, over the course of
several years that you can't just go whole gung ho and say,
you know what, I'm going to start deep cleaning the house
every single Saturday. I'm going to do it.
I'm going to work from one room to the next.
If you do that, often times you're just setting yourself up
for failure that you have to identify like what is the entry
point? You know, is it that, you know
what, I'm going to try just cleaning the bathroom every
Monday and that's it. I'm just going to experiment
with that for right now and then see, could I begin to gradually
layer on whether it's the next day or some other related task?
And so I do think that, you know, for anyone who's
struggling or feels overwhelmed, it's like you have to figure out
what is your entry point and then gradually layer on those
new routines. And then like what you were
mentioning that idea of anchor routines, you know, when life
feels really chaotic or overwhelming, sometimes those
anchor routines are ones that you just hold onto that give you
a sense of like comfort or maybe a little bit of control that
just help you weather some of the wild, wacky storms.
And even for me, like in the intensity of the school year or
back to school season or even the holidays, it's like I'm
still up set my alarm to go off early to clean the bathroom on
Mondays because you know what? That gives me some sort of
semblance of, you know, peace and comfort even in the midst of
everything else sort of unfolding.
Yeah, and my kids too. I have one kid in particular.
My 6 year old is really and it really comforts her like you
said, not just me but for her having the anchor routines and
and things that are constant in her life.
The more routine. Even if kids don't necessarily
like it, they do benefit from it and they secretly do like it
because I've had both kinds of kids.
I have two stepdaughters and the ones that aren't really type A,
they'd still really like it better and are happier when
there's a routine going on to kind of anchor them.
Yeah, And you mentioning that, you know, I get a lot of
questions with this book of like, is this book just for two
parent households or that must be great.
You know, it's you and your wife sort of navigating all of these
things. But in my background, you know,
when I was in 8th grade, my parents divorced and I went from
one home now into two homes. And so I saw my parents go from,
you know, sharing responsibilities with us as a
family unit to now them taking on individual responsibilities.
I remembered what it was like to have to develop systems for
going back and forth between, you know, their homes.
I've also had followers who talk about, you know, when a spouse,
when a spouse passes away or they've just now taken on, you
know, the mental load of caring for an aging parent.
And I talked about in the book, you know, when my mom, she had
to her, her dad was rapidly deteriorating in health.
And her mom came to her and said, you know, Janice, I think
you need to help us move out of this, out of our house into an
assisted living place. Like, we've got to do something.
But my grandma was like, but, you know, you can't let my
grandpa know that all of this is unfolding.
Like, we have to just sort of tiptoe around this.
And you talk about a wild sort of situation to navigate.
And that's what I call these like Sir Thrival seasons where
you're simultaneously trying to survive.
You're also like trying to thrive at the same time.
And your capacity, you're like mental load of what you're
carrying just feels like you are maxed out.
And so I want listeners to know that like I am speaking from
these different perspectives because all of our families look
different. And even what you're talking
about there, your 6 year old compared with, you know, your
two stepdaughters, that your two stepdaughters may be going back
and forth between different homes, different expectations,
different rules. But yet you still have to step
in and navigate what is this home going to look like?
How are we going to come to some sort of agreement?
How are you still, you know, going to share the
responsibilities? So I do think, you know, we all
have different seasons of life, we all have different things
that we're navigating. And there is a major difference
between sharing household responsibilities with two
spouses or being a single parent trying to navigate all of the
work yourselves. And so there is the chapter
called Stop Doing All the Work, which it really outlines 3
approaches like you can share responsibilities, you can also
outsource responsibilities, or you can eliminate
responsibilities. And the joke that I sort of make
in the book is like as a kid when my parents divorced, I
hated having to do yard work at both parents houses.
Like I hated mowing 1 yard, but now I was suddenly responsible
for mowing 2 yards. So when I became an adult, what
did I do? I moved to the largest city in
the United States, and now I don't have to worry about yard
work. You know, Central Park is our
yard. So that's just one sort of
example. My sister, she's not married.
She's happily single. You know, she's happily as an
aunt. And people keep asking her,
like, when are you going to buy a house?
When are you going to buy a house?
And she's like, you know what, I have to travel 2 weeks a month
for work. I don't have time to deal with
the house right now. I don't want the yard work.
I don't want the square footage. And when something goes wrong in
my kitchen, I really like being able to call the Super.
So she's sort of like, would you please just layoff me in this
season? I don't want a house.
And so I do feel like with Tidy Up Your Life, I'm also trying to
give people that freedom to say, you know what, for this season
of life, this is what is work working for me and that is OK.
I love that that really makes it just for everybody because like
you said, there's so many unique situations and you pretty much
give your perspective on how to navigate all of it based on your
specific life and needs. So I think they'll really like
that for sure. Yeah, Yeah.
It sounds like the book is for everybody.
We do have listeners who are single parents.
And I like how you talked about the different seasons because
some of our listeners are responsible for the lion's share
of the housework. And I've definitely gone through
a season like that where my husband was working outside in
the heat, long hours. And so I wasn't expecting him to
do anything at home, whereas now he's, you know, in a supervisory
role and, you know, he's indoors more.
So he's he's more involved in the housework during this
season. So some people can, you know,
solve the cleaning issues by delegating it.
But some people have to do it all on their own.
You know, it's just the way it is sometimes.
And if you do have to do it on your own, that's when thinking
about, as we mentioned, you know, at the start of this,
really thinking about the connection between organizing
and tidying and cleaning is really important.
Like regardless of who you live with, whether you have somebody
to help or whether you are, you know, taking on sort of the full
responsibility of cleaning, what is going to help is having less
clutter and having an organized space.
Because when people know or when you know where things go back,
you're not then wasting all of your cleaning time like
reorganizing at the same time, because that really is what
slows people down so much is just when all of that excess
clutter is there. And so I do feel like, you know,
that relates to eliminating the work sometimes when you
eliminate the number of physical possessions that you have in
your space, that can then inherently help alleviate some
of those burdens around the responsibilities that you may
have. I like that definitely that pre
cleaning or tidying is sometimes the biggest challenge, just
getting down to where you can quickly clean your surfaces.
And a lot of times going a little more minimal, little more
minimalist is the path to that lifestyle of being able to clean
a little bit each day or certain days of the week, however you do
it. So tell us, how can people get
their hands on your book? Yeah, so tidy up your life.
It is available wherever books are sold.
There's also an audio book. So for listeners, if you want to
clean with me literally as I'm reading to you, you can listen
to me. One of my jokes was the
publisher asked me if I wanted to record the audio book, and I
asked if Morgan Freeman or Viola Davis were available Because if
not, I would happily do the book just because I love their
little, sort of like, booming voices.
But I do think that people enjoy, you know, listening to
the book that's in the author's voice.
So I am excited by that. And then people can always find
me on Instagram at Tidydad. And then I also have a website,
thetidydad.com, which gives some more of these resources and tips
in order to make tidying and organizing and cleaning feel a
bit more manageable, again with the goal of helping people make
space for what's important. Thank you so much.
I think you really outlined the basics of what's going to be in
your book. Great.
And I think our listeners are going to be really receptive to
it and really like it. Yeah, well, thanks for having
me. It's great talking to you,
Tyler. Yeah, thanks.