1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,000 What's happening on the ground in Gaza now is the future of a 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:07,640 humanity and like the use of AI, the drones. 3 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:12,160 So the drone got in my room and I everyone was leaving and I in 4 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,520 this moment, I I bought the blanket and myself like this. 5 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:19,680 It just couldn't shut you and like I was saying like I can't 6 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:21,480 imagine how the drone come in my room. 7 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:25,880 Besides using the drones, the use of AI is very dangerous and 8 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:28,000 now we see it that it's not just about Gaza. 9 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,840 Now in the UK as well, it's being used with Palantir. 10 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,800 AI if you have a message for the British people, knowing that the 11 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:37,320 same technology that killed us in Razan, the genocide that even 12 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:42,680 before is now working and managing the NHS. 13 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,360 Baby, stop talking about the weather and go stop. 14 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:50,120 This is people before they before they come to the UK and 15 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:52,320 you're not going to be able to talk about the weather. 16 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,720 I'm hello, Hanina, and welcome to Palestine Deep Dive. 17 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:01,680 Today I'm joined by two extraordinary guests. 18 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:06,480 Hi, I'm Hamad and Dan Abseso, 2 genocide survivors from Gaza, 19 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:10,360 now living in London. Tomorrow, May 15th, marks Nakba 20 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:15,280 Day, commemorating the mass expulsion of more than 750,000 21 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:19,160 Palestinians in 1948 at the hands of Zahn settler 22 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:21,880 colonialism. But for Palestinians, the Nakba 23 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:23,920 never ended. From the ongoing genocide in 24 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:27,680 Gaza to the continued colonization of the West Bank, 25 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,440 we're witnessing that catastrophe continuing to unfold 26 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:34,680 in real time today that. Obsesso is a Palestinian law 27 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,440 student specializing in public international law, a writer with 28 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:42,160 We Are Not Numbers and part of leading Universities Picturing 29 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,280 Scholasticide project documenting the educational 30 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,400 genocide in Gaza. Hai Muhammad is a Palestinian 31 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,640 poet and artist whose work explores memory, survival and 32 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,240 displacement. Her first collection, The Age of 33 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,800 Olive Trees, traces years of longing, witness and resistance 34 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,320 through poetry and art. We send our regards to Ahmed. 35 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:04,080 Today. He's on special trip to 36 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,520 Slovenia, advocating on behalf of his people who will be back 37 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:11,160 with us next week, inshallah. So thank you so much, Dana and 38 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,440 Taya, for joining us today. Thank you for having us. 39 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:15,320 Yeah, for sure. It's our pleasure. 40 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:21,240 So you know, today is the 78th anniversary of the Israeli 41 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,600 catastrophe in Nakba and displacement of the Palestinians 42 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:29,160 in 1948 that even started way before. 43 00:02:29,640 --> 00:02:33,200 So as Palestinians, all of us had like multi generational 44 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:37,920 trauma and multi generational experiences of of Nakba and each 45 00:02:37,920 --> 00:02:41,120 of us has their own stories. So could you share with us 46 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:46,920 what's your story of Nakba? I think the Nakba kind of 47 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:51,160 informed who we are because it started in 1948, but as you 48 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:55,240 said, it started way before that and throughout living throughout 49 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,240 our entire life. Like, for example, I was born 50 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:02,360 after the the second Intifada, but that kind of shaped who I 51 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,800 was. And if it wasn't for the Nakba, 52 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,240 we wouldn't have been who we are today and our stories wouldn't 53 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:11,520 have fold unfolded in the way that we they are unfolding now 54 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:14,040 and the neck, but is still ongoing. 55 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:18,480 The occupation is still ongoing even now more so than before. 56 00:03:18,920 --> 00:03:21,000 And it's just part of who we are. 57 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:25,240 And I think it is like definitive of our identity at a 58 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,360 certain point. Yeah, So what about you hire? 59 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:37,080 Neck but for me is US and where we are now because like we all 60 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,320 come here in a scholarship to study Why? 61 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:46,280 Because our university is bombed, our city bombed so we 62 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,400 don't have a choice. We forced to be here today. 63 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:56,720 So it's a start from my grandfather when he displaced 64 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:01,520 and then my dad and then me now here in London because I don't 65 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,720 have university, I don't have city more. 66 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:11,360 And it's the neckpa when it start from my grandfather and I 67 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:15,960 am the third generation now and it's I still affected where I am 68 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,680 now because the neckpa start and I don't know the genocide in 69 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:21,680 Gaza. How many generation will go 70 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:26,920 through it starting from now to the next generations? 71 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:32,000 And MacBook also for me is you know, you, it's like you'll 72 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:37,120 never have the feeling and the place of home again because I'm 73 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:41,520 here in London, my brother in Germany, my family in Gaza. 74 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,360 I don't know when I'm going to like it's not allowed to me to 75 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:49,440 go back to Gaza. And I'm don't know when I me and 76 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:53,680 my sisters and my brothers going to sit in one table and having 77 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,040 one dinner if this is going to happen in our life or not. 78 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,480 It's all mysterious. This is the Nakba you, you don't 79 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,600 have the feeling of home more in your life. 80 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:08,240 And it's going not in just one generation, it's going through 81 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:12,560 all the generations and that's it. 82 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,040 Yeah, it's very difficult. I remember when I was speaking 83 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:20,480 with my, with my family when I was young and, you know, we're 84 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:24,560 Palestinians, but being born a Palestinian does not immediately 85 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,880 make you understand the context, the politics, the, the reality 86 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,640 of the situation. So the first time I got to know 87 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,880 Nakba was it through the stories of my parents, grandparents. 88 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:38,320 And they were always telling me like, and when I grow up, like, 89 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,960 I thought it again, but they were always telling me the 90 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,680 stories of what they left in 1948. 91 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:49,760 And I remember my grandmother, like my mother's sides, she was 92 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:51,560 very young at that, at that time. 93 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:55,960 And they were living in Iraq, Sweden, somewhere like New York. 94 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,320 And at that time, because the Israeli soldiers were not 95 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,400 soldiers at that time, they were like that. 96 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:07,200 That is really zealous. Gangs were like around Iraq, 97 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,520 Sweden, and they were already massacred multiple villages and 98 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,080 cities around. So they had to go around and 99 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,480 then go back to. So they went a little bit of 100 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,960 north, a little bit of east and then down to to Wazza. 101 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:25,080 And her mother was pregnant in the nine months and and she had 102 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:27,720 to walk towards like the winter. It was very cold and they they 103 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,920 had to walk the whole the old way while she was like pregnant 104 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,040 and very tired. And through the way she she 105 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,400 delivered, she couldn't like she couldn't hold it. 106 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:40,840 And they had to like spend a few days for her to be able to walk 107 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,520 with with a baby. And they built like makeshift 108 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:45,640 and something just to stay and spend the night. 109 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:50,240 And after a few nights from staying there, they woke up on 110 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:54,400 one day with a tent collapsed and also the baby had frozen to 111 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:58,240 death. And they always like I, I heard 112 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,400 the story from her like multiple times. 113 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,880 It was her younger brother who was supposed to be born at that 114 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:09,240 time, Abdul Rahman. And and he was like killed as a 115 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:13,800 baby and as a child. I was always thinking how, how 116 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,800 would a baby be killed of, of cold it, it did not make any 117 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:21,640 sense to my imagination when I was young and even when I grow 118 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:25,080 up older. So what the circumstances that 119 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:30,200 caused this and then the Nakba, the things that we once I wasn't 120 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,200 able to imagine, once I wasn't able to, to, to live in my 121 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:37,040 memory or in my imagination. I've seen now happening and 122 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:44,120 growing upon people in Gaza. So what is the moment in your 123 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,560 life that you felt that you're exposed to the reality of us as 124 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:52,520 Palestinians, the political reality, the Nakba, all of that? 125 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,760 I think like continuation of what you were saying, like, yes, 126 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,400 we grew up hearing, for example, about the Yasin massacre, Sabra 127 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,200 and Shatila, the Tantoria. You heard all of these stories, 128 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,400 but you never would have like imagined that you would 129 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,960 experience thing experience them like this generation and this 130 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,680 time. So I think my first memory of 131 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,960 like the thing of like what is going on, what is happening? 132 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,640 I was six years old during the first Israeli aggression on Gaza 133 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,520 in 2000 and eight, 2009. And I like at the at the 134 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:25,920 beginning, I like I was like, what is happening? 135 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:27,880 What do you mean? Like the schools just stopped. 136 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:29,680 Bombings were happening everywhere. 137 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:31,920 We were being displaced from our house. 138 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,600 We had to go to my aunt's house. What is happening? 139 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:39,679 Like, I was so young, but, and I remember during that time, of 140 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,840 course, there was no electricity during the Israeli aggression. 141 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:47,080 And I was going to like a room with my cousin. 142 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:52,240 And then like a very close by bombing happened and like a 143 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,400 glass was shattered and it was like it entered into the house. 144 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:59,080 And because of like the shock, I, like my cousin and I were 145 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:01,440 just like completely silent. We couldn't talk, we couldn't 146 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:02,960 say anything. And you were six. 147 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,480 I was six years old. And I remember this very vividly 148 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,200 because I think this defines of who we are. 149 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:12,000 And then like my mom was like screaming like, where is that 150 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:13,880 and where is that? And I just, I couldn't talk 151 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,760 until like, I don't know, like after a couple of minutes, like 152 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,840 my cousin was like, we're here. She was like 10 years older than 153 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:23,120 I was. So like they were like so scared 154 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:25,560 and they thought like we were killed or like we got killed by 155 00:09:25,560 --> 00:09:27,920 the bombing and everything that happened. 156 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,480 And I think after that it just kind of like your mind 157 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,600 immediately starts to wake up to everything that is going on 158 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,400 around you. Yes, I was 6, but like I saw 159 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:41,640 like how everything changed. My, our school was bombed. 160 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,840 Places that we used to go to the streets were like not in the 161 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:47,480 same condition as they used to be. 162 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,360 Like, of course, we were young and like some memories you could 163 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,320 not really remember, but you remember the places that you go 164 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,360 to. And then exactly. 165 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,760 And each each year that you grew up, you see how things are still 166 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:03,320 unfolding in like a way way in a very bad way. 167 00:10:03,680 --> 00:10:08,200 And then like I remember in the 2021 ingression when like there 168 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:10,640 were massacres happening, the alcoholic massacre and then 169 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,160 entire family was removed from the civil registry. 170 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:17,560 And like you start to wake up that it wasn't just in the 1948. 171 00:10:17,560 --> 00:10:21,800 This is still happening, it's continued and no one's stopping 172 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:23,320 it. What the hell is going on in 173 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:24,760 this world? What about you? 174 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,680 What was that? The moment, the revelation. 175 00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:31,600 And when you realize that it's, it's Nakba, it's Israelis like 176 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,480 colonialism, we're living this. I'm like you. 177 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,960 I felt like I was. I'm hearing the first time like 178 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,680 there's some people like me in Gaza because all the time I was 179 00:10:42,680 --> 00:10:47,000 hearing the stories from my grandfather, from my dad, from 180 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:53,080 my uncle, but I never like I believed in 100, but I like 181 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,760 something inside me. I can't process it. 182 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,480 Like I believe you guys, but I can't process what you're 183 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:02,040 saying. Like it's like more like fancy, 184 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,200 like fantasy. Fantasy. 185 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:08,920 Yeah, more like fantasy because I can't imagine this is kind of 186 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:12,840 having this world. But then when I when the 187 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:18,960 genocide come to Gaza and like we displace we live in tents, we 188 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:24,960 cooking in the fire, we wishing in our hands like like we I'm 189 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:30,000 not like I inherited the Akbar I I'm not just here about it and 190 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:35,880 now I live it with all my body and a whole city live it now. 191 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:41,080 So we I feel like we inherit it and but it's the most crazy 192 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:48,960 thing Napa was before 100 years ago and it's now in the 26 and 193 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,600 this is still going where all the world is modern. 194 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:58,280 It's like it's the whole like how, how in where, when the 195 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:03,320 world is like this is how this is disgusting thing can happen 196 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:08,640 and and it's OK. I am now in London and Gaza now 197 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,800 they they it's pond. It's they are still strong. 198 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:22,120 Is they still starving? They they going like more than 199 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,000 before the beginning of the genocide. 200 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:29,200 Now the situation is more worst and it's OK, Everyone here, it's 201 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:34,000 OK. Yeah, like I like, it's more 202 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:38,920 silent and and I meet some people and I like, I talk to 203 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:41,840 them. And then like the most choke 204 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:46,800 moment when when I come here and I I was buying something and 205 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:51,440 then she told me the seller told me where are you from? 206 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,200 I said I'm from Palestine. She said, where's the Palestine? 207 00:12:55,560 --> 00:12:59,600 And I I felt literally someone slabbing punish me in my face. 208 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:05,720 Like like if if I lived through all this is and you have no 209 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,760 information about not what I lived about my country. 210 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:16,600 Like how how you can't be uneducated for this is the key 211 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:23,040 for this is point and I was like I I needed 5 minutes to hold 212 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:28,440 myself because I felt she she finished me like. 213 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,280 Shocking how some people are living in their own world like I 214 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:33,960 feel they're like. Their own bubble. 215 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:38,680 Yeah, it's so, so weird because it was live streamed on TV and 216 00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:42,000 like if you just scroll on any social media, you'll find it. 217 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:47,920 It requires someone intentional decision to ignore it, to not 218 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:48,880 see it. Yeah. 219 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,800 Otherwise there is no way to not be able to see it. 220 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,720 True. I feel also it's, it's what 221 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,160 happened. It's not just about Palestine 222 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,040 and the land. It's like about the humanity. 223 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:04,280 Are you not human? I was in the British book award. 224 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:11,240 It's 2 days ago and I was it's the same conversation but in 225 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:15,400 another style. So I was like, she's one of the 226 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:20,080 writers and I she asking me, did you get a ticket to come here? 227 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:22,960 I said I was talking to you all the time. 228 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,760 I'm getting schoolish here. We got we went and campaigned to 229 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:29,960 come here biometrics, Jordan, Gaza and you then you are you 230 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,400 hearing me? And then and then she said to 231 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,080 me, did you get a ticket to come here direct? 232 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,640 And then I, I just, I stopped talking. 233 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,880 And then, and then Anthony was with me, my publisher, he said 234 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,240 to her. We can see the the photo now of 235 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,600 you at the ceremony here. Oh. 236 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,880 Yeah, yeah, he he told her like he was angry. 237 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,920 He told her yeah, she never left Gaza. 238 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,080 It's it's the first time in her in a plan. 239 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:58,760 It's not allowed to her to leave. 240 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,960 Yeah, she came here and. Combined, it was like his face 241 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:03,080 like. Yeah. 242 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:07,320 Like someone punished her. I was more angry than me. 243 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,600 But I stay silent because I couldn't like explain to these 244 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,960 people like where's Palestine did you take to get a ticket? 245 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,280 Some woman in the train, she told me, are you spending the 246 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:22,280 summer with you in the homeland? This is summer or you're not 247 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:26,160 able to go back? Like what kind of this question? 248 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,800 She she know about Palestine, the woman in the train because 249 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:34,080 she was talking. But but they I think they just I 250 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:35,280 don't know how they're seeing us. 251 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:40,640 Honestly, I can't but like, are you going this homeland to the 252 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,440 homeland this summer? Is this something I can't do 253 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,400 yet? I wish I can. 254 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,600 But honestly, I like, I think, yeah, some people might be still 255 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,640 living in their own bubble not knowing anything about 256 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,480 Palestine. But if you compare the situation 257 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,400 now with like 10 years ago. Exactly. 258 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,040 If you like 10 years ago you said to anyone you're from 259 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,440 Palestine, all that they will ask you was like Pakistan. 260 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,480 But like today when you say Palestine, some do. 261 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:09,000 But like like on the general, no, a lot of people now know 262 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:10,800 about Palestine. Like especially if you say like 263 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:12,800 from Gaza, like I always get that reaction. 264 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:13,800 Like where are you from Palestine? 265 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:15,360 Oh, where? Where in Palestine? 266 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:18,240 Gaza. Oh, so like it's like a another 267 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,920 case unfolding when once you say it's Gaza and like the 268 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,160 solidarity that's been going on since the genocide. 269 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,400 Exactly. Maybe now it's a bit more silent 270 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,480 because of after the ceasefire. The spotlight is not. 271 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:33,840 Ceasefire. So-called ceasefire as you're 272 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,400 saying, maybe like it's a bit more silent. 273 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:39,200 We're now more on the silent killing. 274 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,640 We're getting killed, named, displaced, but no one really 275 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,640 knows the details because the attention many, like 276 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:47,720 journalists, were murdered during the genocide. 277 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,800 So the focus is not as much as it used to be, but the 278 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:53,960 solidarity is growing. And I think that's something 279 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:57,040 that's really amazing and really powerful in the world. 280 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,640 And one of the amazing stuff is that London and the UK are still 281 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:04,319 having the national marches and the marches around the UK for 282 00:17:04,319 --> 00:17:07,560 now three years. So this Saturday there is the 283 00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:10,960 national March in in London commemorating the the Nakba. 284 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,359 And this is important like not to have it. 285 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,000 To have it is good. It's not enough, but it's good. 286 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,480 And the continuation of it is, is very important. 287 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,520 But going back to speak like you've both left the genocide 288 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:27,839 and you've both have been there, and you also were displaced 289 00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:31,120 inside the genocide. So could you share with us more 290 00:17:31,120 --> 00:17:32,760 about your experience living in there? 291 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:36,000 I know it's very difficult, it's a lot, it's very traumatic, and 292 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,200 I'm so sorry about that. But whatever you feel like 293 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,920 sharing. OK, it's very traumatic, but if 294 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:46,520 I'm smiling or laughing, that's a defense mechanism, so don't 295 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:50,680 mind. The laugh, the smile, all of 296 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:55,520 that is our defense mechanism. It's the way how we how we deal 297 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:57,360 with the trauma. It's the way how we hold our 298 00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:00,200 tears back and how as you said it, yeah. 299 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:01,680 Resilience. Yeah. 300 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:05,480 And the resilience and smooth and to make sure that we're not 301 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:10,120 making our family exactly in a more stressful position by 302 00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:16,560 seeing how difficult we are. Honestly, with the genocide, I I 303 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:20,360 was displaced on like the third day, like since October 10th and 304 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,200 until today, I've never, I didn't go back home. 305 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,400 Oh my God. We were displaced first from my 306 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:30,240 house because phosphorus bombs were dropped in the, in the area 307 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,040 and it was very dangerous to stay in there. 308 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:38,040 And there were like no Internet connections, no cellular Wi-Fi 309 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,520 or cellular data or anything. So we're completely cut off. 310 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,280 And the, the situation in the area that I was living in was 311 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,200 really, really dangerous. So we left, we went to another 312 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:52,120 area in Gaza City and it was my aunt's house. 313 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:59,080 And on the second day there, it was like around sunset and we 314 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:05,400 were like sitting in the in in the salon and then a bombing 315 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:10,000 happened right outside the door of the building of my aunts and 316 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,480 uncles house. And it was very dangerous 317 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:15,640 because my cousins were downstairs. 318 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,840 We were in the house so we didn't know what happened. 319 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,080 My aunt starts screaming like where are my children? 320 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,960 It was very horrific. And we opened the door, everyone 321 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,360 was running down the stairs. And then then another bombing 322 00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:31,680 happened in the same spot. And it was just like complete 323 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,000 terror. And everyone was running down 324 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,840 the stairs. And I was, I think I, I had like 325 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:39,960 a panic attack at that moment. Like I was running down the 326 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,680 stairs like barely able to breathe, not knowing what is 327 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:44,840 happening. Just like praying to God that 328 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:50,120 like we, we, we survived this. And I remember going down the 329 00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:55,000 stairs, I think one of the people that got like he like he 330 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,240 was injured with a shrapnel from the bombing. 331 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,360 He, I think he didn't realize and would like the adrenaline of 332 00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:04,320 that moment. He would try to like rush up, up 333 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,480 the stairs. And he died on, on that stairs. 334 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,280 Oh my God. And I think they took him down 335 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,840 because like, when like the ambulance, it was really close 336 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,400 to the hospital. So like the ambulance really 337 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:19,920 came fast. And so like we walking down the, 338 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,720 the, the, the stairs and there was blood. 339 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:27,400 No, he passed away. He was killed and there was like 340 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:32,080 blood all over the place. And then two of my cousins were 341 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,720 injured and they were immediately transported to Shifa 342 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:37,840 Hospital. And then my other cousin came to 343 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,240 take us and he was like, we have to leave like now because we 344 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,400 don't know what's happening. We have to go take shelter in a 345 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:44,960 hospital. And The thing is, hospital 346 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,600 itself was not safe. Yeah, nowhere in Gaza. 347 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:48,640 Was safe. Was everyone? 348 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,880 Exactly. Was evacuating my family? 349 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:53,280 Yes. Also live in Talihawa. 350 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,560 And that night there were so many bombings around the 351 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,440 building before our own home was bombed. 352 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:01,680 Yeah. And then. 353 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,320 And then they had also to evacuate in the hospital. 354 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:05,880 It wasn't safe. Exactly. 355 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:06,640 It wasn't. Safe. 356 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,720 It was full of people. Yes, and injured it was, it was 357 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,240 the things, the things that you saw in the hospital. 358 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:16,680 It was that I saw in the hospital were like really, 359 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,040 really hard. And we had to stay like all 360 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:21,760 night there. And it was like fully packed. 361 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,120 Everyone was there and it was like nearly sunset. 362 00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:26,920 So like you have to sunset. So I had to wait until like the 363 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,400 next day until sunrise. And then we were like able to go 364 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:34,880 back to my aunt's house. And on that day, at night, the 365 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,800 evacuation orders to go to the South of Gaza were issued. 366 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,520 And like we barely woke up and then immediately left to the 367 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,440 South and we were displaced in refugee camp. 368 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,800 Yeah, the on the so-called safe. Zone exactly. 369 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,520 We have killed multiple people on the way and also in the safe. 370 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:59,160 So it wasn't, it wasn't the the best experience, obviously, but 371 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,360 yeah. And I remember like on our way 372 00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:04,600 to the South, it was really dangerous because like they 373 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,680 issued the evacuation orders. They wanted people to leave. 374 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,840 But at the same time they were bombing people while they were 375 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,040 leaving on the corridors and on the way. 376 00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:16,880 So it was really dangerous. And I remember I was driving, I 377 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:18,520 was holding the steering wheel in my hand. 378 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,440 I was driving. I was driving and my hands were 379 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,320 like, we're like completely shaking and I was like holding 380 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:27,120 it like you. Have the car with you. 381 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,160 That's a huge responsibility. I know it was like my mom, my 382 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,280 sister and my aunt because my father passed away years ago. 383 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,160 So it was really hard and like I was like, I was just like 384 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,200 praying to God the entire world just like please make us like 385 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,160 get wherever we're supposed to go safe. 386 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:43,760 And we didn't know where we were going. 387 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,080 And after we got there, we stayed with our in laws and we 388 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,640 were displaced to different places we did. 389 00:22:52,120 --> 00:22:56,200 UK should give free lessons. Because he survived the 390 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:58,160 genocide. Driving, yeah. 391 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,880 And yeah, it wasn't the best. And I like until we left, I left 392 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,400 to Egypt. It was, it was very horrific. 393 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,880 Like I left. I was, I was considered like one 394 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,800 of the few privileged and lucky people who left in like almost 395 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,120 the beginnings. I like, I lived four or five 396 00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:18,400 months of the genocide, which is a lot. 397 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,640 It is a lot. But I think that's the point 398 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,560 that sometimes we forget that 4-5 months is a lot because 399 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,120 people have been living that for two and a plus years. 400 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,480 Exactly. So it's it, it is really 401 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,200 horrific. And I remember even on our way 402 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,040 to the crossing border, we were like, I was praying to God not 403 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,440 to travel. I was displaced, I was starved, 404 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,360 I was sick. I had severe pneumonia at that 405 00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:46,520 time. And I was like in a really bad 406 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:48,680 shape. And the famine had already 407 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:50,400 started from the beginning of the genocide. 408 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:55,440 So we were already like starved. And I had lost a lot of of my 409 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,680 weight and everything. But I still didn't want to leave 410 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:02,440 because somehow being in Sairat was also being close to home. 411 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,400 And if there's a possibility of going back to Gaza City, I 412 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,880 wanted that. And actually, I wrote a story 413 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,960 about that. And we are not numbers called a 414 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:12,440 trip of grief. Yeah. 415 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,240 So it like, it captures the grief of how like it moved from 416 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:21,960 14 kilometers in Sairat to 373 kilometers when I was in Cairo 417 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,280 from my house. Oh my God. 418 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,160 And yeah, I was in Egypt for the last year. 419 00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:30,120 We'll go back to this. I'm talking about the survival 420 00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:32,560 guilt and feelings coming with that. 421 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,600 But with you, Haya Haya, you actually left it throughout the 422 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,400 genocide. You only left less than 14 days 423 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,120 from the so-called against ceasefire on Ghaza. 424 00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:45,240 So we've been through a lot. I don't know how much of that 425 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:50,480 you could speak about. Yeah, I think there is a moment 426 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:56,400 like it's stuck me in my mind. I can't forget it like like the 427 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:01,240 shouting of the women's in the morning when I was displaced in 428 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:05,840 my brother home. I woke up they said the first 429 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,480 thing they bombed and he placed just near next to my brother 430 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:15,520 home and I can't I can't forget the women they were shouting 431 00:25:16,120 --> 00:25:21,040 about the children that called and her husband and her voice is 432 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:28,840 still in my in my head. It's like it's feel like it's a 433 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,640 movie. Even if I when I think now when 434 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,760 I'm in London, I think about the things that I lived in Gaza. 435 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:41,480 I said to myself how, how, how did I live there? 436 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,240 Did I really live there? Like I can't imagine myself that 437 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:51,280 I live, I live it like I, I just say 6-7 months and I'm saying 438 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,240 no, I did like I can't imagine my life in Gaza, but the life in 439 00:25:55,240 --> 00:26:00,560 Gaza I lived is like 2020 years there and six months here. 440 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,960 It's nothing converting, but I feel like sometimes I feel this 441 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:09,800 is life is not existing and the the things that I lived is not 442 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,840 existing. Like I think no, I didn't live 443 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,400 that. Yeah, this is like this is 444 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,400 voices. If this is women, I can't get 445 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,400 them out of my head and the the other things that. 446 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,520 Take us to the beginning. So when was your first 447 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:29,400 displacement? Yeah, I it's like 3 or 4 days 448 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:36,560 when after 7th of October, Yeah and my brother come to to he's 449 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,960 married so he have another home. Yeah, so he come and you live in 450 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,120 Hanunes. Yep, yeah, South of yeah. 451 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:48,720 So he come to to my home where I lived with my mum and my sister 452 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:53,880 and he said you have this displaced to my home because 453 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:58,640 this is not safe. And we said no, if we're going 454 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,920 to die, we're going to die here. We don't want to move from our 455 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,000 home. And then my mom said let's go, 456 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,440 let's go. And we said no. 457 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:12,840 And then the next morning when we when we woke up, my mother 458 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,840 was picking everything our clothes and important like the 459 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:21,840 humans. And she said to us, she's more 460 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:26,560 stubborn than us. She said to us, if you if you 461 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,520 didn't move now with me to your brother home, I'm not going to 462 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,360 talk to you all my life. So in this moment no one said 463 00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:35,520 no. So we have just to leave with 464 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,800 her. So we left to my brother home 465 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,960 just four days after 7th October. 466 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:47,640 And then the next day they not just from being one building, 467 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:53,000 but they the whole building around my building, my family 468 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:57,480 home place is bombed. The mother's gut, she felt it. 469 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:02,680 And and I was the most one should be like I was I supposed 470 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,880 to be died because if I was in my it's because where I am 471 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:12,280 sleeping the bed, there was a column of cement. 472 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,840 It's just in my bed. Oh my God. 473 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,680 And my my whole room is outside in the street. 474 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,040 My office is outside in the street. 475 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:27,080 So and my I wrote that about that in my book. 476 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:32,000 I said that my family start calling me the alive matrix 477 00:28:32,120 --> 00:28:35,960 murder, murder. So my family later they call me 478 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:40,000 the alive mate murder. Oh my God, and. 479 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:44,800 That's a very difficult way to to describe it and live with it. 480 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:46,120 Go on. Sorry. 481 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:52,400 It's OK, but then the other home was also like this destruction, 482 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,440 but my roommate was the most one. 483 00:28:54,520 --> 00:29:01,160 It's like completely damaged so and then we displaced from this 484 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,800 to my brother inside Hanyunis. So we the first stage in the 485 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:10,320 genocide, you displaced inside, but from you my home to my 486 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:14,200 brother to my auntie and then we got went outside. 487 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:20,240 Whereas in Morassi now and my family now is displaced nearly 488 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,640 two years in Al Mawasi. You know, in Mawasi it's not 489 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,280 area that people lived in before the genocide. 490 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,080 So now they're living there for nearly two years. 491 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,480 Yeah, I was talking about the people from Hanyu and I send the 492 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,280 people from Rafah because all of Rafah now is evacuated. 493 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:42,160 Yeah, I remember like so. There's a roof there in the in, 494 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,720 in Mawasi. I remember like I'm me and my 495 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:50,200 sister loving to look to this sea from the roof and sing the 496 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:54,400 sunset and part. It was tragic all the time 497 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,680 because when you are on the roof, you sing the people. 498 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:58,960 Because my home is near the street. 499 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,560 They displace the way some people walk, some people with 500 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,400 cars, some children's holding things. 501 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:11,080 And it was all the time because in manasing it's like this and 502 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:15,720 people from Kanyunis, from Rafa come to Al Mawasi and people 503 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,720 from Kanyunis come El Mawasi, people from Gaza to El Mawasi. 504 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,480 And it's like this. And it's like and pull of the 505 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,360 people. And it's tragic because you see 506 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:32,760 all these things and, and at the same moment I was saying the 507 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:37,800 people outside and I was in my social media living, it's OK, 508 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:42,120 like was saying like how like there's people here literally 509 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:46,880 dying from displacement, from Hungary, from, from the 510 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:48,640 situation. From the cold. 511 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:55,760 From the cold and people outside living OK, I said how people can 512 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,320 you do that? Like how can they process it and 513 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,880 live it? It's OK, but time is going. 514 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:08,760 And then I'm like, like I opened my social media and I said to my 515 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:13,880 friend, this is telling my Instagram that I am not managing 516 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,400 this space. My friend do that because at 517 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,840 this time I said to her, I'm not going to go more with this. 518 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,280 I can't, I can't see the people outside living life, people out 519 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,160 inside dying and I can't like acting normal with them. 520 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,600 So I'm I'm not going to be in social media more. 521 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,880 And then she managed this space well. 522 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:37,240 Now when I am here, like it's, it's different. 523 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:43,360 Like I am here now and my family is there and I have to live with 524 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,240 this people. I can't turn my phone off. 525 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,800 And I say to my friend, please. To connect with them. 526 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,840 Please manage my page. It's not page, it's not it's my 527 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:59,240 life now and I I struggle to to live a normal life When, when my 528 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:05,600 family like one week ago I was doing my essay, my mum called me 529 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:12,880 like you know, the situation in Gaza about everyone have this is 530 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,680 sport things and this is what is called. 531 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,520 Eczema, some of it scabies, but some of yeah, scabies and this 532 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:25,480 pictures and skin diseases that. Yeah, all the skin diseases, 533 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:31,040 it's like my nieces was having it in hold her body and I and my 534 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:36,200 sister and they're showing me these things and I just I just 535 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:41,560 like the deadline is tomorrow and and I just saw that and I 536 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,720 can't do something for them. I can't send them medicine now. 537 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:49,280 There's no medicine and it's she's baby, she was crying and 538 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:53,920 she can't do anything and her body's just scratching and I 539 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:59,960 just like. Now the treatment to get into. 540 00:32:59,960 --> 00:33:03,920 And then I have to hold myself like I have, I said to my mum, 541 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,200 OK, my mum, I, I need to go now. I'll call you later. 542 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,520 But I didn't have to go because I, I just, I have to cry. 543 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,720 But I didn't want to show her that I'm crying. 544 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:14,800 So I said I'm OK, I'm going to call you later. 545 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,720 Bye bye. But then I, I get down And then 546 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:23,680 I told myself, I said I'm here for, for, for Mishi Shin. 547 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,960 I can't say it's Mishi Shin and I'm going to do it. 548 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,640 I'm going to study, I'm going to success, I'm going to do it. 549 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,520 Whatever is the reason. So I hold myself completing my 550 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:38,000 essay and then I I get raised. I owe in my Instagram. 551 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,840 I saw another video for child killing girls and I said like 552 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:47,680 stop it like how can I stop it? And then I get down and then but 553 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,800 I have to commit this EC today. It's like then I said to myself, 554 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:56,920 like how people can convert, like people from Gaza that are 555 00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,000 having a normal life even in London. 556 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,640 Then I said I thought I have a normal life when I come here, 557 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:07,120 but I think I'm I'll never have a normal life in this situation. 558 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:12,159 It's not about it's nice you are unsafe here, but when you're 559 00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:16,520 seeing this thing in Gaza, I was with them and this was I live 560 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,800 what they living. But I'm here now and I have to 561 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,920 see them struggling and I have to process it and complete my 562 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,000 essay and I have to be normal with other people. 563 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,760 If someone call me if someone needs some have to be normal 564 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,560 between. Tools, one of them. 565 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,560 Everything is normal and you have to act and abide by the 566 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,199 selected lines and normal stuff. But at the same time most of 567 00:34:38,199 --> 00:34:42,199 your emotions, body and heart and mentality are back home with 568 00:34:42,199 --> 00:34:44,280 your family, with the struggles, with the genocide. 569 00:34:44,679 --> 00:34:50,239 It's insane. Like it's too much for and I was 570 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,520 thinking about other students because I'm not alone and I was 571 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,199 sure they processing what I'm processing now. 572 00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:03,040 And it's like it's I think we will never have a normal life 573 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:08,120 because our body in Gaza for our heart. 574 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,520 Like I said to my friend, like I love London. 575 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,400 I love it. Like I felt like when I come 576 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,680 here, it's safe and I felt it's really, really nice. 577 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,960 And I felt like, OK, my body pawned in Gaza, but my heart 578 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,960 pawned in London because it's the first time I'm seeing the 579 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,920 safety. I'm living the life, the normal 580 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:34,680 life, like having the rights. Because in Gaza, when I was 581 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:39,040 there, it's like 1 sky. I was in under the one sky from 582 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,000 this place to this place. But there's not safe. 583 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,360 There is not. You are not treated as a human. 584 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,600 You don't get there is not they not they take the food from your 585 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,800 table, the drink and everything. You don't have the right to 586 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,760 live, to eat, to do anything. But when I come here, they give 587 00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:00,320 me food, they give me water, they give me education and I am 588 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,480 under the same sky. This is horrible. 589 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:12,320 Yeah, but like, but the safety make you feel like, why my 590 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,920 people can't have it and I can't have it here. 591 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,800 Yeah, exactly. And it's as how you described 592 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:23,000 it, it's the same sky, but each of you are living a different, a 593 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,240 totally different life. Yeah. 594 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,560 And you, you lived through it around 2 years. 595 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,400 So it's insane. But there's something that you 596 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:36,360 mentioned on the the roof that you were looking at the sky, 597 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,640 sunset or sunrise. Yeah, Sunset. 598 00:36:38,720 --> 00:36:40,520 Yeah. When you mentioned that I 599 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:45,120 remembered in 2021, Israeli aggression over Gaza, that in 600 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,720 each aggression, I don't sleep at night and most people don't 601 00:36:47,720 --> 00:36:51,400 sleep because you like the bombardments and everything is 602 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:55,120 more cruel and violent. So I stay all the night to sink 603 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:59,160 to, to news, but smiling. So my family will not know that 604 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,320 I'm listening to the to the radio and that I'm worried or 605 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:08,080 afraid or sad or anything. So and I remember at each day. 606 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:13,800 So I was living in in Barcelona. So Barcelona Park is just 607 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,720 opposite to where I live. So each time with the sun dries, 608 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,560 I'll be looking from the window. Just add the sky and the sun and 609 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,880 imagine that this gonna be a piece and this will end. 610 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:31,000 And that like the moment that like few moments of if every day 611 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,720 helped me to go through the the rest of the day in in a way. 612 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:39,680 So I I wonder if when you spoke about the, the sea, the the sky 613 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:43,320 and the sun, if you had such moments within the genocide and 614 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:47,480 the cruelty of it. Honestly, the sunset, especially 615 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:51,480 the sunset in my life, it's made my whole life because since I am 616 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:57,600 kid like I having I start how I start writing is just one hour 617 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,320 before the sunset. It's just for me and my book, 618 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,840 the sunset and writing about my day, journaling anything I want. 619 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:10,320 So like every day in my hour, in my day, I have one hour to the 620 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:16,480 sunset and just relaxing, hot tea, some drink and then the 621 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:20,040 genocide come. And then I have this place. 622 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:24,520 And when I have this roof in Morassi, I was looking at the 623 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:28,360 face in the sky. But it was scary because all the 624 00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:31,800 time, the drones, the bombing, it's strayed. 625 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:37,480 So it's like make me, I don't have this connection more with 626 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:43,520 the sky and with the sunset because it's make me, it's 627 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,760 changed my whole life. It's make me like, I don't like 628 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:51,080 to the to look into the sky more, even when I all my whole 629 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,320 life connected with the sky. So when I was going up to the 630 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,080 roof, I'm going with my sister. I'm not going alone because I 631 00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:01,720 scared to do it alone. And when I come here to London, 632 00:39:01,720 --> 00:39:03,600 it's safe. There's no drones here, there's 633 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:09,080 no bombing, there's no red sky. But I notice that all the time I 634 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,760 was saying I'm not, I don't have time with the sky. 635 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,720 And when I sit with myself, I saying why? 636 00:39:14,720 --> 00:39:19,280 I'm telling myself that I'm busy so I don't have to to time to 637 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,600 sit and look to the sky. But I notice when I'm with my 638 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,560 friends, like to be well, I feel really safe with them. 639 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,760 I look to the sky and I say to them, look, the sky is nice 640 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:30,160 today. It's really nice. 641 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:35,160 But when I'm with myself, it's impossible to do that, said my I 642 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:39,240 noticed that my connection with my sky is no more like before. 643 00:39:39,240 --> 00:39:42,000 Because I'm scared. I still scared about it. 644 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,760 It's even when I see plan here things, I have to look like this 645 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,120 for one moment and I thought it's just me. 646 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:53,600 But when I was in Newcastle with other friends from Gaza and 647 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:58,360 research, there's a plan coming and then they all look like 648 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,680 this, all of them. Yeah, we have that. 649 00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:05,640 And, and in this movie, I, I knew that it's not just me, it's 650 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,240 all of us. Even the slam of a door. 651 00:40:08,240 --> 00:40:11,000 So it does make me safe. Like, yeah. 652 00:40:11,720 --> 00:40:14,800 It's made me feel comforted because I'm not alone doing it. 653 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,080 All of them have the same. And the same with the sky. 654 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:22,080 Like I love the skies, I love the stars, I love, I love starry 655 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,440 night. I love all of those things, but 656 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,400 in the genocide in each aggression, I also like feel I 657 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,720 lost the connection. Even with the beach. 658 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,960 I each aggression, I hate the beach and I hate like the I hate 659 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:39,840 like the the the sea, because I know that ships like military 660 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,480 ships comes from it. You know that evil and death 661 00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:44,720 comes from there. The same for the sky. 662 00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:50,360 I the moment I felt I hate the sky the most was in the genocide 663 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:56,280 because it was the first time I was out of faza in such occasion 664 00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,640 while my husband and my family were there so it was like the 665 00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:03,400 same sky. They are living hell apolloptic 666 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:08,360 while I can't join them and I am here in the UK living safety 667 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:12,760 under the same exact sky. So I hate it because I couldn't 668 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,560 switch to places. I couldn't be there around them. 669 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:20,440 So what about you, Dana? So you've been through long 670 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:25,120 months of the genocide. What helps you to to keep going 671 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:29,920 on? I don't know, I think what kept 672 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,760 me like going on like during the genocide or you mean after 673 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:35,320 leaving? During get at the beginning. 674 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,960 During, to be honest, I don't know, it was just like in the 675 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:43,480 beginning, I was really hopeful and I really thought that no, 676 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:47,400 this is going to end very soon. And, and I remember like, I 677 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,920 really believe that ceasefire is coming. 678 00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:52,240 Things are going to end. Exactly. 679 00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:57,040 And, and then in November 2024, when it was like supposed to be 680 00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,640 the day of the ceasefire. And then it turned out that it 681 00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:04,520 was just like a four day truce. I remember I received the news 682 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:11,280 of martyrdom of my friend Mohammad Hamu, and I was like, 683 00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:15,040 what is like, Oh my God, this is like we were supposed to be like 684 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,560 celebrating A ceasefire or something. 685 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,320 But at the same time, I didn't cry that day. 686 00:42:21,720 --> 00:42:23,920 Mohammad Hammo. He's also a contributor to 687 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:25,920 Palestine. Yes, and he was. 688 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,320 We are not numbers right there and he was a friend of every 689 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,240 person. He was an amazing person and 690 00:42:32,240 --> 00:42:36,400 Muhammad stayed in Gaza City. He didn't leave and he died in a 691 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:40,360 he like he was killed in a massacre with 100 members of his 692 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:43,840 family in Hasina massacre. Yes. 693 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,680 And it was really hard and receiving news was really hard. 694 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,640 But I kept pushing because I still like to remember until 695 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:55,600 like until like today, I keep reading his messages and he like 696 00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,680 how he used to joke and he was like, Oh, you left Gaza. 697 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,400 We stayed, we're like the original Gazans. 698 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,480 And he was always like very light hearted and even like, I 699 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:06,480 know the situation was really difficult. 700 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:09,920 And he lived where your family's house was near Barcelona. 701 00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,920 So it was really like difficult and it was really intense there. 702 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:17,760 And he they stayed there. And when we, when I lost him, I 703 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:19,960 was like, I, I couldn't believe it. 704 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:24,120 But then I was like, he wouldn't have wanted us to stop writing 705 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:28,320 or stop doing whatever we were doing because he knew like this 706 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,160 was coming. He knew that we would have lost, 707 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:31,800 that we would lose a lot of people. 708 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:36,080 Maybe he didn't know that we would lose him, but he needs to 709 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,640 continue to live within us. And I think losing Mohammed was 710 00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:42,800 one of the things that really drives me to keep on fighting. 711 00:43:43,240 --> 00:43:48,760 And by the end of December and early January before I left, I 712 00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,680 had like really bad pneumonia and there were like no, no 713 00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:56,480 medicine in the exactly nothing in the, in the in the Gaza 714 00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:58,520 Strip. So I was just living off of 715 00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,080 painkillers and I was like pushing each day by day. 716 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,320 I was writing whenever I had time, but I was like, I'm not 717 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,720 publishing anything because I'm not writing for anyone to know. 718 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,840 And at certain points I was like, because we didn't have, of 719 00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:13,800 course, Wi-Fi or anything for a long time before we got access 720 00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:18,120 to E Sims, which weren't like really efficient at many points. 721 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,240 And I was like, really wondering like if the world knows. 722 00:44:21,240 --> 00:44:23,920 And I was like, like, we just have to keep on going. 723 00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:28,920 And then I got to Egypt. And I remember like after I got 724 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:32,960 to Egypt, it's when like the flood of emotions came and I 725 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,720 weeped over Muhammad. I weeped over my house, over 726 00:44:35,720 --> 00:44:39,240 everything that I've lost. And like, I just, I couldn't 727 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:41,920 believe it, like what we were going through. 728 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:48,040 But after I got to Egypt and there was like the ICJ, like ICJ 729 00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,080 South Africa versus Israel about the case of the genocide. 730 00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:55,000 And I was like, oh, my God, like the international community is 731 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,840 actually doing something. So I was like glued to the 732 00:44:57,840 --> 00:44:59,760 television. I was know this is happening. 733 00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:01,560 Something as good as coming along the way. 734 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:06,640 And I was just like, so hung up on any news of a potential 735 00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:10,160 ceasefire coming along. And that was like since 2024. 736 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:11,760 And you keep living on that hope. 737 00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:16,720 But at the same time it's it's very difficult because like you 738 00:45:16,720 --> 00:45:20,800 have to check up every single day on everyone in Gaza because 739 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:26,080 as hard as it is to say, you have no idea if you might lose 740 00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,000 anyone at any moment. So you have to keep on like 741 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,240 asking about them. And sometimes it was mentally 742 00:45:31,240 --> 00:45:33,680 draining, but it felt like I have to do it. 743 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,200 It wasn't like an option going. To lose the chance. 744 00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:41,160 Exactly, exactly. And yeah, And I think I that's 745 00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,760 when I started like publishing things that I wrote, started 746 00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:48,320 writing more, started believing again that the international 747 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:52,360 community would do something. But then it kept on going and it 748 00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:56,040 was very prolonged. And yeah, it was, it was very 749 00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:58,840 hard to live through. And I called the 1 1/2 year of 750 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:06,360 in Egypt as the 1 1/2 years of guilt because I, as I said, you 751 00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:10,280 like your body was in, in somewhere, but your, your heart 752 00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:11,600 and your mind are in a different place. 753 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:15,280 So it was I was always, my mind was always in Gaza, even if I 754 00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:19,840 was physically safe in Egypt. Oh God this must have been very 755 00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,120 difficult. Like for me I wasn't in the 756 00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,960 genocide the last few days before and it's among the things 757 00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,920 I still regret the most. I left because of my visa 758 00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:33,280 conditions, so I can actually make the visa and come here to 759 00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,600 complete my PhD. But then it was the thing that I 760 00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,480 regretted the most. I contacted UNICEF, Oxfam and 761 00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,480 everyone that I worked with before and I asked them, I need 762 00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:44,400 to go back to, I must go back to US. 763 00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:47,160 And they were like, hello, you're Palestinian, you're from 764 00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,880 West, then you have the ID. So certainly if we can't get 765 00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:52,640 anyone inside, it's gonna, it's not gonna be you. 766 00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:59,560 So I do understand the feeling of I remember when I'm 767 00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,600 surrounded with people when I'm in trains going to event or 768 00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:06,680 demonstration from place to place in in in the UK and people 769 00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,920 are living and laughing and talking about diets. 770 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,400 Why our people? Are still all about the weather 771 00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:14,600 here? Yeah, All the composition is 772 00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:19,840 cold and hot, yes. I'm so honest, but this is the 773 00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,000 truth. Yes, and it's it's very 774 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,000 annoying. Like I feel like I'm I'm losing 775 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,320 my mind. I'm there, but I'm also here. 776 00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:31,720 Sometimes I'll say, man, there's people dying and you're talking 777 00:47:31,720 --> 00:47:32,880 about the weather. Yeah. 778 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,360 Do you don't like the weather? Get a jacket. 779 00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:39,120 But also the weather plays a very important factor here. 780 00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:40,880 You experience Four Seasons in a day. 781 00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:46,000 Yeah, this is a normal things like it's a normal conversation 782 00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,920 for the normal people. Yeah, but where we learned, 783 00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:52,400 where we went through, we we supposed to talk about the 784 00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:56,400 weather, but the things that bigger than us bombing and 785 00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,200 things that not normal make us not normal. 786 00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:03,000 I'm not talking about who's dying today, who's bombed. 787 00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,080 You can't today. Is it your home bombed? 788 00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:07,760 OK until now. Did you displace? 789 00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:09,520 Are you OK? Are you alive? 790 00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,360 This is our conversation. But this is not normal. 791 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:15,200 They are the normal. The weather is now talking about 792 00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:20,360 the the weather is normal. I'm not like they are the 793 00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,000 normal. We are not the normals. 794 00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:26,440 For sure would love to live in a world where Israelis it like 795 00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:30,840 colonialism does not exist, no occupation, no genocide. 796 00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:36,200 And what we think about is the weather, is our diets, is how to 797 00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:39,800 make the place look much beautiful, how to play with the 798 00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:41,400 landscape and all of those things. 799 00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:45,600 I'd love to reach that. But we can't do that for one 800 00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:51,040 reason, Israel. So yeah, we'd love to, we'd love 801 00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,200 to. But the feeling of, of being in 802 00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:56,360 two places at the same time is shuttering is, is very 803 00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:59,080 difficult. And it must have been like the 804 00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:00,800 most difficult to actually leave. 805 00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:04,680 So I did not leave. I, I, I was already outside. 806 00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,080 But to leave is very, very difficult. 807 00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:15,360 I think about there's one time here I get like, like collapsed. 808 00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:17,960 There's one time that I collapsed. 809 00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:23,160 I like a victory literally collapsed because I like I was 810 00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:28,320 shouting to my friend asking why like why I should live all this 811 00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:32,280 is life like why I should struggle like this, Why my 812 00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:36,000 family in Gaza and I am here, why they can't eat what I eat, 813 00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,440 why they can't drink what I drink, why they didn't have 814 00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:42,880 medicine, why they can't go out. Why, like, why, why, why, why? 815 00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:49,160 And like and like at this moment he's like, he couldn't do 816 00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:52,680 anything because he never lived something like this. 817 00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:59,920 And he like, he collapse with me because he like, because he 818 00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:06,680 didn't find any answer, any, any answer to me for in this, in 819 00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:11,960 this, in this moment. I felt like it's like so much 820 00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:15,960 pressure as a Palestinian to live as a Palestinian in this 821 00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:21,840 life is you need not to be hero. You need to be a sober hero to 822 00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:23,920 live it. But I don't want to be hero. 823 00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:27,160 I just want to have a normal life cause you like you. 824 00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:29,880 I want to have Sunday dinner with my family. 825 00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:33,120 I want to go to the beach, I want to go to the university 826 00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:35,400 around my friends. I don't want to talk English 827 00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:39,440 more in my life like. Yeah. 828 00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:42,000 That's it. I want to I want this normal 829 00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:43,800 life. I don't want to be sober hero 830 00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:48,600 and trying to do with my essay while my my family's struggle 831 00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:50,880 with somewhere while they bomb the house. 832 00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:54,880 I don't want to dislike. Resilient at the end or heroes? 833 00:50:55,200 --> 00:51:00,080 Which in a way of another dehumanizes us because we were 834 00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,840 like a lot of people do say that maybe resilient. 835 00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:07,360 We're resilient, yes, but we didn't have much choice in being 836 00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:09,680 resilient. We were forced to be resilient. 837 00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:13,520 But with that, being resilient mean that you dehumanize us 838 00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:16,400 because we're superheroes, so we're no longer human, so you 839 00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,800 shouldn't care about our feelings and our emotions. 840 00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:22,640 No, we still deserve to live like a normal life. 841 00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:25,600 We as I said, we deserve to talk about the weather, what we 842 00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:29,160 cooked for lunch or dinner. To worry about exams, to worry 843 00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:30,880 about normal things. Exactly. 844 00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:34,000 To worry about like having to separate the white from the rest 845 00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:35,320 of the clothes when doing laundry. 846 00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:38,680 Not just like that. We don't even have a means to do 847 00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:40,720 laundry anymore. Exactly. 848 00:51:40,720 --> 00:51:45,240 I remember like when I come here every like because this is the 849 00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:47,680 normal thing. I'm not like complaining the 850 00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:50,680 other about the other people's here, but this was talking to me 851 00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:55,360 all the time. How was the culture shock and 852 00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:57,720 like you're? Asking someone being in genocide 853 00:51:57,720 --> 00:52:02,360 for two years and then after two years he's safe and having 854 00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:03,840 safety in the normal. Life. 855 00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,440 How is the culture shock? I don't care about the culture, 856 00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:08,080 man. I'm safe. 857 00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:11,080 That's like I care about. That's a shock. 858 00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:13,000 I'm saying this. Is not a shock. 859 00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:16,120 This is impressed. To me, Oh my God, yeah. 860 00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:23,880 So on that, on the genocide and the experience, we'll go now to 861 00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:28,240 a video from our correspondence correspondent Alice Cake talking 862 00:52:28,240 --> 00:52:30,160 about Nakba, talking about the genocide. 863 00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:35,720 And I feel right now. It's important. 864 00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:38,760 Hello, everyone. I am Alice Cake, a Palestinian 865 00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:43,240 writer from Gaza. So for us as Palestinians, our 866 00:52:43,240 --> 00:52:49,000 grandparents used to tell us stories about the tents of 1948, 867 00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:53,160 but we always thought those stories are the stories of the 868 00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:57,160 past, something we should remember not to relive again. 869 00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:04,360 But looking outside my window today, in 2026, those stories 870 00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:08,080 become our view. The tents are back, covering the 871 00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:12,080 heart of Gaza City. And this is the this is the 872 00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:16,440 catastrophe. It is not a history, but it is a 873 00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:20,960 process that never stopped. Here in the West of Gaza there 874 00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:23,880 are mini camps of worn out tents. 875 00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:28,520 One of those camps stand where the where the historical Jundi 876 00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:32,440 al Majrul park used to be. It was one of the most beautiful 877 00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:35,640 and one of the oldest parks in Gaza. 878 00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:39,680 Before the genocide. It was full of green trees. 879 00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:42,880 It was full of people talking and laughing with each other. 880 00:53:43,240 --> 00:53:46,520 It was full of the children playing with their peers all the 881 00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:49,440 time. But when the Israeli occupation 882 00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:54,720 forces invaded the area, they didn't just destroy the houses, 883 00:53:54,720 --> 00:53:59,160 but they also uprooted all these green trees with their tanks and 884 00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:02,800 pull dozers as they uprooted our people decades ago. 885 00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:06,440 And most of those people who are living in distance are basically 886 00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:10,080 disciplaced to from the lands that are located behind the 887 00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:12,960 airline in the north and east of Gaza. 888 00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:18,720 The Gaza Strip is 365 kilometers. 889 00:54:18,720 --> 00:54:23,320 It's a space and the airline occupies around 60% of it. 890 00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:28,680 So more than 2 million people are forcedly living in around 891 00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:35,400 170 kilometer only. And it is, it is not a big space 892 00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:39,280 for that, that number of people. This is this is what the NEPA 893 00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:42,160 means. This is a systematic effort to 894 00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:44,960 erase us and to erase our identity. 895 00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:50,240 And also these days the world speaks of a ceasefire, but the 896 00:54:50,240 --> 00:54:52,640 killing continues. According to the Iromid 897 00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:55,840 Minotaur, at least 4 Palestinians were killed every 898 00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:58,600 day since the beginning of this so-called ceasefire. 899 00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:03,440 And something we have to to realize is that those people are 900 00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:07,480 not are not numbers. They are humans. 901 00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:11,720 They are teachers, They are mothers, they are husbands, they 902 00:55:11,720 --> 00:55:14,600 are students. And many of them, they were 903 00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:17,560 killed while they were eating the lunch with their family. 904 00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:22,640 This is our land and we will not forget as our grandparents 905 00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:26,800 didn't forget. Thank you so much for having me, 906 00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:28,520 guys. Bye bye. 907 00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:36,560 So much, Ali, it's our pleasure to have you speaking about this 908 00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:38,960 from Gaza in a very eloquent way. 909 00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:42,960 So higher. You said something very painful 910 00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:45,960 while we were watching this. If you can't defeat it. 911 00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:48,280 I said I can't imagine that I lived there. 912 00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:52,480 Yeah. Even when I I lived my whole 913 00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:55,640 life there and I just lived here six months, but I can't imagine 914 00:55:55,920 --> 00:56:02,040 I lived my whole life there. I can't imagine that all this 915 00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:07,280 distractions and things like turn in one day, everything 916 00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:12,000 every bombed, every home bombed and everyone displaced to 917 00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:16,320 attend. I just inside me, you know, the 918 00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:20,720 same way I told you that how my father, my grandfather telling 919 00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:22,600 me about the Nakba and I believed him. 920 00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:24,400 But I can't process it inside me. 921 00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:27,640 It's the same way out. Since I am here, I can't imagine 922 00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:30,960 that I lived there. I can't believe the stories that 923 00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:36,280 I lived there is real because it just can't. 924 00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:41,960 Yeah, it's it's very shocking although so he was also speaking 925 00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:47,440 about the the yellow line and you know, the different areas of 926 00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:49,920 from Gaza that have been taken by Israel. 927 00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:53,840 We're talking about around 2/3 of Gaza now is not, we're not 928 00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:55,800 talking about occupation because it's really occupies all 929 00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:59,440 Palestine and all Gaza Strip. But we're talking about actual 930 00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:03,640 annexation of land that have been done it through the for 931 00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:07,280 wording of the yellow boxes through our land and literally 932 00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:12,080 massacring anyone who's going around or walking through those 933 00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:14,960 lines. And it doesn't get a lot of 934 00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:20,320 media attention. So for instance, my family 935 00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:23,360 house, like we live in different places also in Gaza because of 936 00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:27,640 everything but our main family. So when we were like in Nakba, 937 00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:30,520 so people came as internal displaced to Gaza. 938 00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:34,560 They left Indra for most of my family, both sides, mum and dad 939 00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:38,760 and my family built the house after working for more than 30 940 00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:41,560 years of their lives, a four story building. 941 00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:44,520 And this house has been attacked like multiple times. 942 00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:48,200 And each time I call my, my parents after attack of the 943 00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:51,680 house, I tell them, it's fine. Now it's spend a little bit. 944 00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:54,080 We can, we can like paint it, it's fine. 945 00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:59,000 We still have the concrete pillars in the building so we 946 00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:01,280 can rework it. We still have the 947 00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:03,800 infrastructure. And then when we saw that there 948 00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:06,960 is like some information that might be wiped off the whole 949 00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:10,160 block, I called them and I was like, no, where is we still have 950 00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:12,120 the land, it's fine. We can rebuild it. 951 00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:15,400 We've done it before and then because it's in Rafa and it's 952 00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:19,040 actually in Philadelphia area. So it's in the place where 953 00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:22,280 Israel have controlled long time ago and in Rafa that they have 954 00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:26,120 already taken over and the next for them. 955 00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:30,240 So and from Rafa, yes. So both of my family, yeah, 956 00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:33,360 yeah. So I called my family and I was 957 00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:37,560 like, what happened? And my father is is laughing. 958 00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:38,200 Yeah. Hello. 959 00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:41,320 What's your excuse now? How you're gonna make us feel 960 00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:44,120 fine about it. And I was like, OK, I'm done. 961 00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:46,520 There's no way to make you feel fine about it. 962 00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:50,640 It's gone the land and the home. So it's very difficult and 963 00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:54,320 people don't imagine like the immense of of being around it. 964 00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:57,840 So all of my family now, the multi generations of both sides 965 00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:00,960 rights who actually lived in Rafa, all of them now are in 966 00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:06,040 Mosi and none of them have home to go back to and have land and 967 00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:07,640 all of them are actually refugees. 968 00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:12,320 So this is happening for the second time and you've told me 969 00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:15,000 about where you live also and and I. 970 00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:18,000 Live in. Can you imagine? 971 00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:20,680 Like they reached to the center of the city? 972 00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:24,480 Like they now taking all of cars. 60%. 973 00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:28,040 Yeah, yes. With the last 11% orange line, 974 00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:31,320 yeah, more than 60%. If they reach to the to the 975 00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:34,520 central once they left. It's insane. 976 00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:37,640 They got the north, the South and all of the east. 977 00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:39,440 Yeah. So 2 million people are now 978 00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:41,040 living in. In where? 979 00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:44,200 We were saying all the time we will rebuild it. 980 00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:47,880 We will rebuild our home. Like, yeah, we will rebuild it 981 00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:50,360 like you bond it and we will rebuild it. 982 00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:54,800 It's not OK, but we will. But now like one week ago I was 983 00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:58,720 having calling with my mum and then she told me that our home 984 00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:04,200 in the yellow line. So now the the bombed home and 985 01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:10,640 the land inside with the the the inside the the yellow light 986 01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:13,600 wishing to the they control it now. 987 01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:17,320 So now we don't have home and we don't have land. 988 01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:20,840 So we lost everything, literally. 989 01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:24,520 Oh my God, that's very, very scary. 990 01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:32,240 In the video we watched, it's erimal what we call them of Gaza 991 01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:36,440 because it's the the place with a beautiful place, the green 992 01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:40,920 size, the the, the good shops, the fancy cafes and restaurants. 993 01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:44,280 Or how it was and before the the genocide. 994 01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:49,520 And I I live like in the video, like I can see where I live with 995 01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:54,800 my family for two years and in the like in the back of a bank 996 01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:57,320 like Palestine Bank. I also can see where I live with 997 01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:02,920 my husband and the area now is something that looks very 998 01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:07,160 different, like a Goss city. Yeah, it's so scary. 999 01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:10,760 Like I can't see anything that looks exactly as I imagine it. 1000 01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:15,040 So the memory itself is is attacked, is destroyed with 1001 01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:17,760 those with those images with a distraction. 1002 01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:22,600 So it's, it's very weird, but it's also very important to 1003 01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:28,400 remember while people watching other stuff as like beautiful 1004 01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:31,360 stuff also. And we're here to talk about 1005 01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:34,800 beautiful stuff because it's important to show also the 1006 01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:37,160 beauty of Gaza and the beauty of the people in Gaza. 1007 01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:41,680 And we'll share now a video of Marathon that has been done in 1008 01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:45,920 Gaza after 10 years of not doing it at the same time with 1009 01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:49,280 Marathon and Bethlehem. And we'll talk more about it 1010 01:01:49,280 --> 01:02:27,800 later. OK, so going back from that 1011 01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:32,520 beautiful video showing more than 2000 of our children, 1012 01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:38,560 elderly men and women running through the unfortunately ruins 1013 01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:43,160 of our homeland, but running after three years of Israeli 1014 01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:48,600 genocide, of continuation of it, of the salvation of the famine. 1015 01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:54,800 So looking at them and seeing them running give us some type 1016 01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:59,560 of of hope that they will continue living, they will 1017 01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:03,440 continue trying, they will continue striving for life, 1018 01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:06,920 although everything but. It's also like happiness coated 1019 01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:10,240 with with sadness coated with misery because we didn't see it 1020 01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:12,240 on the video, but a lot of people who were running were 1021 01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:13,440 actually amputees. Yeah. 1022 01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:16,880 And that was really, really sad because like, when you think 1023 01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:20,120 about like the percentage of amputees in Gaza, it's like the 1024 01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:23,880 highest percentage in the world. It's so heartbreaking, but I 1025 01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:27,680 love how our people still continue to be like so resilient 1026 01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:30,800 as we say, like we, we still like hang on to hope. 1027 01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:33,480 We want to live, we want to have a life. 1028 01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:37,040 We as like refuse the other thing we teach life, Sir, I 1029 01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:39,120 always say we don't want just to be teaching life. 1030 01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:41,200 We want to live it. We want to enjoy it. 1031 01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:45,760 So I think it's really beautiful how even despite all of the 1032 01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:47,600 ruins, we're, we're still trying. 1033 01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:51,320 We hang on to the hope. Yeah, which is the most perfect 1034 01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:54,600 thing that anyone could do. And it's very ironic that the 1035 01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:59,000 people who live the most amount of pain and cruelty are the most 1036 01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:00,120 seeking for life. Yes. 1037 01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:02,960 So even when I remember my friends have been killed in the 1038 01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:06,480 genocide, my cousins and all of that, they've been the most 1039 01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:10,280 people attached to life that I I knew in my life. 1040 01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:12,120 And it's shocking. Allah. 1041 01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:14,720 So yeah. Maybe all rest? 1042 01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:17,320 How do you see the marathon? You left it through the genocide 1043 01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:23,880 more than any of us. I think there's so many point in 1044 01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:27,440 that there's people who seeing that they say, Oh, this, they 1045 01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:30,720 are so how they starving and they're running and this is 1046 01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:34,200 disgusting, Mabel and there are the positively when they saying, 1047 01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:37,160 oh, they love the life they're doing marathon and this is the 1048 01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:40,920 truth. We not we starving yes, but we 1049 01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:43,440 love the life more than anything. 1050 01:04:43,640 --> 01:04:46,600 That's why we're running. We're scathing from our fears, 1051 01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:51,840 from our from the bombing, from what all we have to run. 1052 01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:55,560 So the the running and edge of the running let us everything 1053 01:04:55,720 --> 01:04:59,720 inside us and telling the world that we love the life as you 1054 01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:03,480 liked, as there's was a marathon here in London, as the people in 1055 01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:07,400 London like the marathon and running and enjoying the sun. 1056 01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:11,480 We were in Gaza the same or they are in another condition and 1057 01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:14,640 they choose to run. The irony about the marathon is 1058 01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:17,960 that it's supposed to connect the land of Palestine. 1059 01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:22,120 So for years, almost a decade, we didn't have any marathon in 1060 01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:25,760 Gaza because the hope was that people would run from Bethlehem 1061 01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:28,000 to to Gaza and go around and all of that. 1062 01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:32,080 But it didn't happen and because of the ruins in Gaza that Israel 1063 01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:35,440 have taken more than 65% of the land. 1064 01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:39,040 Now there is not enough area to run like a full marathon at 10 1065 01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:40,960 kilometers. Yes, so people have to run only 1066 01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:43,080 55 kilometers. It's nothing. 1067 01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:47,760 It's some someone's walk or run every single day here in London. 1068 01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:51,120 It's not a big distance to for people to think that starving 1069 01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:52,480 people will not be able to do it. 1070 01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:55,160 No, and also only 2000 have done it. 1071 01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:58,720 It's not the 2 million. People who you are to say is 1072 01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:02,680 allow is not allow exactly are they starve and running who you 1073 01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:05,960 are you you stay they silent all the time and now when they see 1074 01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:09,280 them running, oh, they're running, they're not starving. 1075 01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:13,440 What the hell you are. Exactly to the person who 1076 01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:19,280 actually said that Julie on the screen speaking. 1077 01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:25,480 So Julia Harley Brewer has commented on this marathon, 1078 01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:30,520 saying so impressive that they can do this, what with all the 1079 01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:33,120 genocide and famine going on around them. 1080 01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:35,920 The struggle is real. So she's making. 1081 01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:37,280 Fun. So yeah. 1082 01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:41,600 We should be a victim. So you are you are agree about 1083 01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:45,880 us, so we're going to sit in the street and waiting you to made 1084 01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:49,160 make another comment. Yeah, but the beautiful thing is 1085 01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:52,360 Loki is saying, yes, we teach lifestyle the same thing that 1086 01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:55,600 you already have commented on, but on on Julia and other 1087 01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:59,480 journalists who have been silent through the genocide. 1088 01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:02,240 They have seen the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. 1089 01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:04,960 They have been the massacre side there, the massacre side, the 1090 01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:08,480 flowers massacres. And they've seen people running 1091 01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:12,240 for their lives and running for the aid for the flower and being 1092 01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:14,840 killed for that. And they haven't said anything, 1093 01:07:14,840 --> 01:07:17,680 a single word. And I remember, like I remember 1094 01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:20,840 in the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, my cousin Hamad Li 1095 01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:25,760 Mukhari, a 29 year old young man, beautiful man, brilliant 1096 01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:29,280 man, who's a Baker himself or used to be before the genocide. 1097 01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:34,200 He has nine siblings, orphans and some are married and they 1098 01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:37,280 have children, all of that and he went to bring flour for them 1099 01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:41,680 to feed them at the famine time and when he went around the dawn 1100 01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:46,160 so they can, you know, come on time for the Israelis that allow 1101 01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:49,160 them a short period of time and shooting around them. 1102 01:07:49,560 --> 01:07:55,760 He was shot by or like targeted by quadricopter and sharpened in 1103 01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:59,440 his head and abdomen everywhere and he unfortunately was killed 1104 01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:03,160 and he was returned to his family in a bag of flower like a 1105 01:08:03,240 --> 01:08:05,480 white bag. And I decided not to be angry 1106 01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:09,920 from these people, so I'm not going to get angry because. 1107 01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:14,560 It's just reflects like the double standards of this. 1108 01:08:14,560 --> 01:08:17,560 World exactly. She did not cover that exactly 1109 01:08:17,560 --> 01:08:21,240 and she now has the gut and so many other journalists to make 1110 01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:25,240 fun of 2000 Palestinians who lived literally every single 1111 01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:28,479 second of the genocide, not only the genocide, as we all know. 1112 01:08:28,479 --> 01:08:30,319 Exactly. And now they're trying to live 1113 01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:33,920 something out of that. I don't know how people can not 1114 01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:39,200 having a single amount of the humanity inside them. 1115 01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:43,800 Like I remember, I remember this is like the most hard time in 1116 01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:50,160 Gaza when when I was like we was literally dying, not from 1117 01:08:50,160 --> 01:08:54,560 bombing, but from starving. Like my family, we have one room 1118 01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:57,560 and one tent and they are just next to each other. 1119 01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:03,200 And when I was just walking like walking like are you like you 1120 01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:05,880 are inside the home working from 1:00 room to one room. 1121 01:09:06,279 --> 01:09:11,560 I was like like this exactly because there's nothing in my 1122 01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:15,200 body like I'm a 23 and I'm. Like even walking is starved. 1123 01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:19,240 Yeah, and the beach is like 4 minutes from me, but I can't 1124 01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:23,160 walk to the beach. And this I am 23 and we have I 1125 01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:28,640 have 3 nieces with us. I don't know at this feeling, 1126 01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:32,720 the feeling of like you are starving, but the baby with you 1127 01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:38,160 starving at least like OK, I'm like I can't breathe, but I 1128 01:09:38,160 --> 01:09:42,439 can't hold myself. I still like trying trying to 1129 01:09:42,439 --> 01:09:45,640 hold myself. But what the guilty of this is 1130 01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:50,000 baby to starving and at this moment my brother, he couldn't 1131 01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:54,200 he couldn't like he couldn't see us like this and sit down. 1132 01:09:54,880 --> 01:10:03,480 So he went to to this is a point without our knowing and he went 1133 01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:07,480 to it like this is, you know what's meaning going to this aid 1134 01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:12,760 like 99% you're going to be killed, 1% you're going to back 1135 01:10:13,360 --> 01:10:17,280 with a flower. And then this moment, then my 1136 01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:23,400 brother friend, he come and he was telling my mum like the 1137 01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:26,400 doctor Lavak. And then she said to him, 1138 01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:30,520 where's he is? And he like she was joked, he 1139 01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:35,160 said to her, he went to the aid and my mum like shut down. 1140 01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:40,840 She couldn't hold herself because we know it's who went. 1141 01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:43,640 He who was going never went back. 1142 01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:45,880 Yeah. Because drop points. 1143 01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:49,600 They were not for humanitarian. There were two massacre people 1144 01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:50,640 and me. Exactly. 1145 01:10:50,920 --> 01:10:56,120 All of us like was scared about him, but my mum was the most 1146 01:10:56,120 --> 01:11:01,240 person who was like she couldn't hold herself and then if in the 1147 01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:05,280 evening he. Back with A50 but kilo the 1148 01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:11,000 flower Oh God and like like it's like you know when someone 1149 01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:15,840 married and have celebration and everyone like he was like hero 1150 01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:20,960 but like but my mom said never go back again. 1151 01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:24,400 And then my we have in the same land my aunties and then 1152 01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:28,640 everyone having some flower and like it was in that night. 1153 01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:33,760 But everyone can't go to Pixar making some bakers and things, 1154 01:11:33,760 --> 01:11:39,440 and I'd like so. It's sad, yeah, because he's 20 1155 01:11:39,440 --> 01:11:44,960 and he have to to do that for us because he see his sisters and 1156 01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:48,200 nieces can't please from being starving. 1157 01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:52,040 He he shouldn't live in this his point. 1158 01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:54,800 I shouldn't live in this point. My mum shouldn't live it for 1159 01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:58,200 this point. And then after all of that 1160 01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:03,800 stupid calm and saying about this is this is comment and this 1161 01:12:03,800 --> 01:12:07,320 thing is like. A very racist and supremacist 1162 01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:09,440 way. To I feel like if you stay 1163 01:12:09,440 --> 01:12:11,720 silent all the time. Just stay silent. 1164 01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:14,440 Stay silent till the end. This is this is bitter. 1165 01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:19,240 We know that you are. Yeah, on that point, you told me 1166 01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:22,640 yesterday about your grandfather who lived through the Nakban, 1167 01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:26,680 also through the genocide. What did he say about both of 1168 01:12:26,680 --> 01:12:30,200 them? There was 1 moment also in the 1169 01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:34,280 starvation on my mountain, the Salvation, but there was 1 1170 01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:36,160 moment in the starvation, he said. 1171 01:12:37,400 --> 01:12:41,080 I was crying because there was nothing, literally nothing to 1172 01:12:41,080 --> 01:12:45,760 put in your mouth, nothing. You can say anything but there 1173 01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:50,840 was nothing. And I like I couldn't hold 1174 01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:56,000 myself in front of him. And then he, he, he said I lived 1175 01:12:56,040 --> 01:12:57,560 all my life. He's 90. 1176 01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:01,400 So he said I live all my life but I never lived like this is 2 1177 01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:05,680 years. He said he's like, this is 2 1178 01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:08,960 years about all the the years I lived before. 1179 01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:11,920 Oh my God, if you convert. It and this is Nakba before 1180 01:13:11,920 --> 01:13:14,120 Nakba. Who's older than Israel? 1181 01:13:14,280 --> 01:13:17,840 Next, Yeah, he's older than Israel and he lived to the 1182 01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:20,080 creation of this really calling in our land. 1183 01:13:20,080 --> 01:13:22,720 And he lived the Israeli aggressions decision. 1184 01:13:23,240 --> 01:13:25,480 Yeah. And for him, oh God. 1185 01:13:26,320 --> 01:13:30,040 But the genocide was nothing was like this genocide. 1186 01:13:30,600 --> 01:13:35,200 And I was asking myself when I said met with myself, like why 1187 01:13:35,200 --> 01:13:39,480 the Nakba haven't and this And then now the genocide happened 1188 01:13:39,480 --> 01:13:41,400 again, which is the second Nakba. 1189 01:13:41,760 --> 01:13:43,520 It's more than the first Nakba even. 1190 01:13:44,160 --> 01:13:50,920 Why Like why this is happening again in 2026 since 23, Why this 1191 01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:53,320 is happening? Because I think because the 1192 01:13:53,320 --> 01:13:55,400 people at this moment, they stay silent. 1193 01:13:56,280 --> 01:14:02,440 So it's it's now define the Israel found everyone silent so 1194 01:14:02,440 --> 01:14:06,320 they can do more and now they take why they take over more? 1195 01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:11,360 They take at first from Gaza like this and now they making 1196 01:14:11,360 --> 01:14:14,520 the yellow line more because people stay silent. 1197 01:14:14,880 --> 01:14:18,720 If they sit, if they someone took, if there's people move, 1198 01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:20,800 they're not going to be allowed to do that. 1199 01:14:21,520 --> 01:14:25,320 But because of the silence of the ward, they're doing more and 1200 01:14:25,320 --> 01:14:27,280 more. And it's not about Gaza now that 1201 01:14:27,280 --> 01:14:30,560 Gaza's finished now there's no building there is people is like 1202 01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:33,960 literally dying from Hungary and from the life is finished. 1203 01:14:34,960 --> 01:14:39,720 But it's going more than Gaza. And I say the saying that from 1204 01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:43,000 the beginning of the genocide, I was posting and saying it's more 1205 01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:45,520 this is Gab, it's going to be bigger and bigger. 1206 01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:48,000 If you didn't stop it in Gaza, it's going to be bigger. 1207 01:14:48,280 --> 01:14:52,480 And we see that now in Lebanon. We say, they say it's see it in 1208 01:14:52,480 --> 01:14:56,400 Sudan, we see it in Iran, in Congo. 1209 01:14:56,680 --> 01:15:03,640 They Trump is woke up one day. He he wants Canada, another day 1210 01:15:03,640 --> 01:15:08,280 he want another pieces. He's like, like, what the hell 1211 01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:09,400 is that? Yeah. 1212 01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:13,960 And at that point, our colleague here, Amir Aziz, always tell us 1213 01:15:13,960 --> 01:15:17,560 that what's happening on the ground in Gaza now is the future 1214 01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:18,840 of a humanity. Yes. 1215 01:15:19,320 --> 01:15:23,480 And like they was of AI, the drones that drones that speaks 1216 01:15:23,480 --> 01:15:27,080 with people, the drones that hover around us all the time 1217 01:15:27,080 --> 01:15:28,320 like. I don't want to remember. 1218 01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:32,840 Yeah, coming into house is getting inside. 1219 01:15:33,640 --> 01:15:38,040 My room when I was in Gaza and it's just, and I, I, it's come 1220 01:15:38,040 --> 01:15:41,920 in my in my room because the window was open and in this 1221 01:15:41,920 --> 01:15:44,720 moment everyone was sleeping. And I most of the time I don't 1222 01:15:44,720 --> 01:15:47,080 sleep. And most of the time was I'm 1223 01:15:47,080 --> 01:15:50,600 like having high temperature in my body. 1224 01:15:51,040 --> 01:15:54,800 Yeah, most of the time. Like, because I know when I'm 1225 01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:56,640 slim, they're going to bomb and I'm going like this. 1226 01:15:56,640 --> 01:16:01,080 And I don't want this to happen to me even now in in like in my 1227 01:16:01,080 --> 01:16:05,520 daily life here, I try not to make a big mission to me in the 1228 01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:07,800 morning. So I'm not thinking about it 1229 01:16:08,160 --> 01:16:11,400 because if I think about it, I have to woke up like this and 1230 01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:13,320 it's remind me what I lived before. 1231 01:16:13,720 --> 01:16:17,200 So I try to not do anything in the morning, especially in the 1232 01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:21,440 early morning because if I shake because I miss something I have, 1233 01:16:21,720 --> 01:16:23,640 it's make me in the same situation. 1234 01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:27,040 I can't get from my bed because my body didn't understand why 1235 01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:30,040 I'm shaking. And it's I'm saying to myself 1236 01:16:30,040 --> 01:16:34,760 it's shaking because of it's like, it's like I have deadline 1237 01:16:34,760 --> 01:16:36,720 or something or have to go to the place. 1238 01:16:36,720 --> 01:16:39,800 It's not shaking about bombing or something. 1239 01:16:39,800 --> 01:16:41,680 But my body didn't understand that. 1240 01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:46,400 It can differentiate as we. Yeah, so I if I shake, I noticed 1241 01:16:46,400 --> 01:16:48,600 that if I shake I can't get from my debate. 1242 01:16:48,960 --> 01:16:53,880 I have I have to like saying to myself for one hour like just 1243 01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:59,520 get 1 cup of of water just like slowly to get myself out of the 1244 01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:02,880 bed if I so I'm not doing anything just like. 1245 01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:05,800 Going back to the drone, the drone got into your room. 1246 01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:09,840 Yeah, so the drone got in my room and I everyone was leaving 1247 01:17:10,240 --> 01:17:14,160 and I in this moment, I I bought the blanket and myself like this 1248 01:17:14,320 --> 01:17:18,240 and I could like because she can't shout you if if it's see 1249 01:17:18,240 --> 01:17:22,640 you woke up, you're gonna go. Shoot you directly. 1250 01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:27,080 Yeah, it's couldn't shut you and like I was shaking in like I 1251 01:17:27,080 --> 01:17:31,040 can't imagine how the drone come in my room and it's killing so 1252 01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:32,560 many people. So I know the story. 1253 01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:35,760 It's going to kill me or can I kill one of my family? 1254 01:17:35,880 --> 01:17:39,080 It also feeds your teeth and. Yeah, but they was sending it at 1255 01:17:39,080 --> 01:17:42,960 the night to shake the the people and to get information 1256 01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:45,120 and think. But it was scary because I was 1257 01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:49,080 alone and I am the only one and I just the blanking can't can't 1258 01:17:49,160 --> 01:17:53,480 protect me. It's like it's so. 1259 01:17:53,480 --> 01:17:56,880 Scary and also like people were talking that it gets into their 1260 01:17:56,880 --> 01:18:01,040 tents, it gets into their their their open windows or cracked 1261 01:18:01,040 --> 01:18:04,160 windows because we invest that we can't close windows even in 1262 01:18:04,160 --> 01:18:07,880 the most the coldest weathers because if you close the window, 1263 01:18:07,880 --> 01:18:10,160 it will. Yeah, as well she. 1264 01:18:10,160 --> 01:18:12,600 Chattered with what, exactly? The explosions. 1265 01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:15,560 So you can't close them. It's safer to open them. 1266 01:18:15,760 --> 01:18:19,240 But also many houses have lost their windows so Israeli drones 1267 01:18:19,240 --> 01:18:21,720 were literally going wherever they want. 1268 01:18:21,720 --> 01:18:23,160 Plus. How they were always like 1269 01:18:23,160 --> 01:18:27,640 imitating the sounds of crying children and dogs or something 1270 01:18:27,640 --> 01:18:30,560 to trap people into going to where these sounds are and then 1271 01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:35,160 like shoot them. So it is really scary and I 1272 01:18:35,160 --> 01:18:40,120 think besides using the drones, the use of AI is very dangerous. 1273 01:18:40,240 --> 01:18:43,680 And now we see it that it's not just about Gaza now in the UK as 1274 01:18:43,680 --> 01:18:47,280 well, it's being used with Palantir AI being part of the 1275 01:18:47,280 --> 01:18:50,640 NHS and everything. So it's really dangerous and I 1276 01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:54,120 think it should be like a limit should be put on that or a 1277 01:18:54,120 --> 01:18:58,240 complete like. Prohibition will be on Palantir, 1278 01:18:58,240 --> 01:19:02,960 specifically that there were news that they was a vet will be 1279 01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:06,200 unrestricted, yes, on the information of people who are 1280 01:19:06,200 --> 01:19:08,600 registered to that. And it's just if we can pull the 1281 01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:15,160 yeah. So NHS England has granted 1282 01:19:15,200 --> 01:19:19,320 external stuff not just from Palantir but consultancy firms 1283 01:19:19,320 --> 01:19:24,160 working with them, unlimited access to identifiable patient 1284 01:19:24,160 --> 01:19:26,760 data as part of Federated data platform. 1285 01:19:27,160 --> 01:19:30,640 So is it true whatever have been tested in the Palestinians and 1286 01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:33,960 Gaza is now the. Other boss in the in the world. 1287 01:19:34,360 --> 01:19:37,960 And it's not like unidentified information. 1288 01:19:37,960 --> 01:19:41,680 No, it's identified information. They'll go, they'll get to know 1289 01:19:41,720 --> 01:19:43,600 everything. Yes, this was very. 1290 01:19:43,600 --> 01:19:47,600 Dangerous Gaza was only the beginning and if a stop is not 1291 01:19:47,600 --> 01:19:51,320 being put now, then this is going to affect everyone all 1292 01:19:51,320 --> 01:19:54,000 around the world. Yeah, the continuation of that 1293 01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:55,880 is very, very scary for everyone. 1294 01:19:55,880 --> 01:19:58,560 How the people in the UK can be silent about that? 1295 01:19:59,040 --> 01:20:01,520 They shouldn't. It's very scary and it's not 1296 01:20:01,520 --> 01:20:04,560 just volunteer but also consultancy firms. 1297 01:20:05,240 --> 01:20:07,760 I don't know specifically the NHS they have. 1298 01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:09,760 Scared about yourself? You must. 1299 01:20:09,760 --> 01:20:12,640 Scared about your children at least, and their future. 1300 01:20:13,000 --> 01:20:16,200 They're going to be another Gaza, another genocide in 1301 01:20:16,200 --> 01:20:19,440 another places. So if you have a message for the 1302 01:20:19,440 --> 01:20:22,840 British people, knowing that the same technology that killed us 1303 01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:27,920 in Gaza and the genocide that even before is now working and 1304 01:20:27,920 --> 01:20:32,720 managing the NHS that has a duty of care, what would you tell 1305 01:20:32,720 --> 01:20:36,480 them? It is now the time to act up. 1306 01:20:36,520 --> 01:20:40,040 It is now the time to take a stand and to say something, talk 1307 01:20:40,040 --> 01:20:44,320 to your MPs, do something that is effective because it's not 1308 01:20:44,320 --> 01:20:47,240 just about the Gazans or Gaza, This is about you, your own 1309 01:20:47,240 --> 01:20:50,000 safety. So if it doesn't stop now, it's 1310 01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:52,280 not just going to affect you today, it's going to affect your 1311 01:20:52,280 --> 01:20:54,800 children, the next generations, and it's going to affect the 1312 01:20:54,800 --> 01:20:56,880 entire world. True, very true. 1313 01:20:57,600 --> 01:21:01,120 Honestly, I'm going to say Habibi, stop talking about the 1314 01:21:01,120 --> 01:21:03,760 weather and go stop. This is people before they 1315 01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:07,480 before they come to the UK and you're not going to be able to 1316 01:21:07,480 --> 01:21:10,440 talk about the weather. So just stop a little bit about 1317 01:21:10,440 --> 01:21:12,440 the weather and move to this and stop it. 1318 01:21:12,560 --> 01:21:16,520 Yeah. And specifically from Gaza, we 1319 01:21:16,520 --> 01:21:19,680 know, yes, and we've seen it and we've experienced it 1320 01:21:19,680 --> 01:21:22,240 specifically both of you. And I think this also matches 1321 01:21:22,240 --> 01:21:26,560 how Meta now decided to stop the end to end encryption on 1322 01:21:26,560 --> 01:21:29,560 Instagram messages, which is also very dangerous because now 1323 01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:33,040 when your messages are not encrypted and they can be read 1324 01:21:33,040 --> 01:21:35,560 and they can be used, this will be used against you. 1325 01:21:35,560 --> 01:21:38,440 And if not today, tomorrow. And it's not just the like to 1326 01:21:38,440 --> 01:21:42,480 the Gazans, it wasn't that and then an encryption was removed. 1327 01:21:42,520 --> 01:21:45,200 It's the to the entire world. And everyone would be affected. 1328 01:21:45,200 --> 01:21:47,320 Exactly. No one's going to be safe. 1329 01:21:47,640 --> 01:21:50,360 No, there will be no right to privacy anymore. 1330 01:21:50,600 --> 01:21:53,280 And the only way to prevent all of that is not just to stop 1331 01:21:53,320 --> 01:21:56,520 what's happening in the UK right now, but actually to stop the 1332 01:21:56,520 --> 01:21:58,920 root causes. So to stop it from happening in 1333 01:21:58,920 --> 01:22:02,360 Gaza and Lebanon and Iran and Yemen and any other place where 1334 01:22:02,360 --> 01:22:05,840 those weapons are being manufactured and tested in our 1335 01:22:05,840 --> 01:22:09,240 lands. So hopefully the British people 1336 01:22:09,240 --> 01:22:11,360 and the global community. They are good people. 1337 01:22:11,760 --> 01:22:15,280 They are going to store it. Control we hope so that they'll 1338 01:22:15,320 --> 01:22:19,640 they'll realize it and start acting accordingly. 1339 01:22:21,800 --> 01:22:27,720 I keep, I keep remembering that Amir and the name of Amir, it 1340 01:22:27,720 --> 01:22:32,000 keeps coming back to my to my mind and remembering that maybe 1341 01:22:32,000 --> 01:22:35,080 the first time I met you, the story was about Amir. 1342 01:22:35,560 --> 01:22:39,680 So if you can tell us, who's Amir and what's his story? 1343 01:22:40,600 --> 01:22:47,720 Honestly do I promised him to tell the stories to to this 1344 01:22:47,720 --> 01:22:50,320 world if I survived. How old is he? 1345 01:22:50,440 --> 01:22:56,000 Four yeah See Amir is he's four years old and his family 1346 01:22:56,400 --> 01:23:00,640 displaced in my father land where I am displaced in Malasi 1347 01:23:01,720 --> 01:23:09,640 and a kind of relationship, a friendship having like I have it 1348 01:23:09,640 --> 01:23:13,680 with him because he loved the Nescafe something worried but 1349 01:23:14,560 --> 01:23:18,480 like because he was his family didn't his mum they didn't allow 1350 01:23:18,560 --> 01:23:21,680 him to drink the Nescafe. But I'm bad guy. 1351 01:23:22,120 --> 01:23:26,960 I was making it for him. I think he like it because I was 1352 01:23:26,960 --> 01:23:30,360 thinking why that child four years old like Nescafe? 1353 01:23:30,960 --> 01:23:34,760 But when I think about it at this time, there was no tea, 1354 01:23:34,800 --> 01:23:38,400 There's no melt, there's no hot chocolate. 1355 01:23:38,400 --> 01:23:41,000 So it was the only thing that's in the markets there. 1356 01:23:41,000 --> 01:23:44,440 That's why. Yeah, it has a taste that that's 1357 01:23:44,440 --> 01:23:50,120 why could child like it. And and this is one of the day 1358 01:23:50,120 --> 01:23:53,640 he come to me and he was running, holding a bucket of 1359 01:23:53,640 --> 01:23:56,800 Nescafe. He took it without his mum. 1360 01:23:56,800 --> 01:23:58,840 No. And I'm sure about that. 1361 01:23:59,800 --> 01:24:02,640 And they come to me and he said hi, can you make me Nescafe? 1362 01:24:03,320 --> 01:24:08,720 And I said OK, just just One Cup because his mind he want more 1363 01:24:08,720 --> 01:24:10,720 than One Cup. So just one. 1364 01:24:10,880 --> 01:24:14,320 He said it's OK. And then I take him. 1365 01:24:14,400 --> 01:24:18,760 We we got out the firewood and I lit the fire and boiled the 1366 01:24:18,760 --> 01:24:22,880 water for him. And then we sit beneath the 1367 01:24:22,880 --> 01:24:25,800 olive trees. It was sunny there at this time. 1368 01:24:26,520 --> 01:24:31,360 And he drinking this is Nescavy as as he having the whole world 1369 01:24:31,360 --> 01:24:36,720 honestly he enjoy it and his family. 1370 01:24:36,720 --> 01:24:39,560 I was hearing his family tint. It's just nice to us. 1371 01:24:40,040 --> 01:24:42,680 They was watching TV. We could hear the voices of the 1372 01:24:42,680 --> 01:24:51,200 TV and in one moment like in one second, honestly like hot push 1373 01:24:51,200 --> 01:24:55,080 me backwards me and him like with that. 1374 01:24:55,800 --> 01:24:58,320 We didn't know at this time what happened, honestly. 1375 01:24:59,640 --> 01:25:05,600 Because when you are like when you, when when you are inside 1376 01:25:05,600 --> 01:25:09,920 that place, when it's bombed, your air is closed so you don't 1377 01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:11,600 hear the voice. Yeah. 1378 01:25:11,840 --> 01:25:17,080 So all we always, we feel like the earth us push us backwards. 1379 01:25:17,640 --> 01:25:22,200 And this is moment. So in this moment, it was just 1380 01:25:22,200 --> 01:25:26,280 he the only survivor of his family, four years old 1381 01:25:26,280 --> 01:25:28,320 Deniskovae. It saved his life. 1382 01:25:28,720 --> 01:25:33,080 Oh my God. Hey, his so his family was in 1383 01:25:33,080 --> 01:25:37,240 the tent they was watching TV like this and they sitting in 1384 01:25:37,240 --> 01:25:43,320 circle and his he have so his dad is already called at the 1385 01:25:43,320 --> 01:25:46,640 beginning of the genocide and his mum is displaced where her 1386 01:25:46,800 --> 01:25:53,360 with her family and I told you they were sitting in circle and 1387 01:25:53,360 --> 01:25:58,520 the television like this and at the middle his sister bed. 1388 01:25:58,600 --> 01:26:03,000 She is 6 months. Oh my God, and this trick is in 1389 01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:08,000 in the rocket is exactly it just next to this bed to the baby 1390 01:26:08,000 --> 01:26:11,880 bed. Can you imagine charging a baby 1391 01:26:12,920 --> 01:26:20,040 and she's was she was full with blood and the whole family his 1392 01:26:20,040 --> 01:26:24,320 mum killed now and his sister. I told you his dad from the 1393 01:26:24,320 --> 01:26:30,000 beginning and his grandfather grandma was there, his uncle, he 1394 01:26:30,000 --> 01:26:36,240 was calling his uncle dad because he he lost his father at 1395 01:26:36,240 --> 01:26:38,760 the beginning and he child, he don't understand too much. 1396 01:26:39,200 --> 01:26:43,120 So he find his uncle around him. So he start calling him dad. 1397 01:26:43,920 --> 01:26:48,400 And then like, Can you imagine four years old, processed 1398 01:26:49,200 --> 01:26:55,080 genocide, starvation, displacement, and losing his dad 1399 01:26:55,240 --> 01:26:58,400 once and again and his whole family? 1400 01:26:59,960 --> 01:27:02,440 I can't imagine that. Oh my God. 1401 01:27:03,760 --> 01:27:08,480 He's only a four year old full. So would you show us the photo 1402 01:27:08,480 --> 01:27:12,240 of Amir? Yeah, this is this is the 1403 01:27:12,240 --> 01:27:15,880 picture where it's the same day when his family bombed. 1404 01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:20,920 Yeah. And he was choked like like you 1405 01:27:20,920 --> 01:27:23,560 can't see like he didn't have no reaction. 1406 01:27:24,000 --> 01:27:27,640 And he kept asking me all the day I want to go to my mom, I 1407 01:27:27,640 --> 01:27:30,480 want to go to the tent and I didn't allow him. 1408 01:27:31,160 --> 01:27:34,000 Like how can I allow him to go there? 1409 01:27:34,720 --> 01:27:38,480 And then all the day he kept saying like he OK coming to me 1410 01:27:38,480 --> 01:27:40,800 having his Nescafe but then he back to his mom. 1411 01:27:41,640 --> 01:27:44,760 And then at the end of the day I couldn't like he's his baby. 1412 01:27:45,080 --> 01:27:49,320 I couldn't stop him like he was four years, but I couldn't stop 1413 01:27:49,320 --> 01:27:51,560 him. He said I he said I want to go 1414 01:27:52,000 --> 01:27:57,000 like and then I hold his hand and we went and then when the 1415 01:27:57,000 --> 01:28:01,680 first moment he saw he was holding my finger like this and 1416 01:28:01,680 --> 01:28:07,080 the first moment he saw the tint he make like this and he said he 1417 01:28:07,080 --> 01:28:11,120 said tint broke him. He even though understand what's 1418 01:28:11,120 --> 01:28:19,680 been bombed and and at this moment, he like he kept walking 1419 01:28:19,800 --> 01:28:24,560 it through the the tent until they get out of the land to the 1420 01:28:24,560 --> 01:28:27,400 street where his uncle used to sit. 1421 01:28:27,640 --> 01:28:29,960 And he asked me, where's my uncle? 1422 01:28:31,520 --> 01:28:36,840 I didn't know what should I say? I hold him like this in my and 1423 01:28:36,840 --> 01:28:39,040 I, I was crying in the other side. 1424 01:28:39,240 --> 01:28:42,680 I don't want him to see me but he hold me. 1425 01:28:42,760 --> 01:28:47,600 He literally a four years old told me hold 23 girls crying in 1426 01:28:47,600 --> 01:28:53,200 his lap. It just and I don't know what I 1427 01:28:53,200 --> 01:28:56,520 told you the Palestinians will never have a normal life and why 1428 01:28:56,520 --> 01:29:02,520 we a child can go on. This is life and why I can't go 1429 01:29:02,520 --> 01:29:03,640 on. This is things. 1430 01:29:04,120 --> 01:29:08,560 And then someone in London say to me, where's Palestine? 1431 01:29:08,800 --> 01:29:11,480 Yeah. Like if I died there, they 1432 01:29:11,480 --> 01:29:13,320 killed me. It's better than someone asked 1433 01:29:13,320 --> 01:29:16,440 me where's Palestine? Not knowing about all of this 1434 01:29:16,920 --> 01:29:19,640 exactly like. You don't know about all of 1435 01:29:19,640 --> 01:29:21,440 this. That's you mean you don't know 1436 01:29:21,440 --> 01:29:26,480 about who I am and you don't know what I go went through and 1437 01:29:26,480 --> 01:29:31,240 you don't know about all of this is make me feel I am nothing and 1438 01:29:31,240 --> 01:29:34,440 my homeland is nothing and my people is nothing for this world 1439 01:29:35,600 --> 01:29:40,640 and it's finished me. It's so scary, but when I think 1440 01:29:40,640 --> 01:29:45,480 about Emir, A4 year old child going through all of this, I 1441 01:29:45,480 --> 01:29:49,560 can't stop myself from thinking of the first question I asked 1442 01:29:49,800 --> 01:29:55,280 here in the podcast, the first exposure of the reality of being 1443 01:29:55,280 --> 01:29:59,160 a Palestinian. So if I imagined this moment is 1444 01:29:59,160 --> 01:30:03,080 the first moment for Emir, if I mentioned the genocide is the 1445 01:30:03,080 --> 01:30:06,840 first moment for a 1,000,000 child in Gaza, half of the 1446 01:30:06,840 --> 01:30:12,120 population in Gaza for the reality of being a Palestinian 1447 01:30:12,280 --> 01:30:16,000 because under settler colonialism and genocide, what 1448 01:30:16,000 --> 01:30:19,160 type of what type of life they will have? 1449 01:30:19,320 --> 01:30:23,800 Like I'm my life, my identity, my my whole character is shaped 1450 01:30:23,800 --> 01:30:27,120 by stories at the beginning that I heard from my parents and 1451 01:30:27,120 --> 01:30:31,120 grandparents and some the reality stuff I left and then I 1452 01:30:31,120 --> 01:30:34,120 continued to grow through the different Israeli aggressions 1453 01:30:34,120 --> 01:30:36,160 and siege over has and all those things. 1454 01:30:36,520 --> 01:30:42,400 But they left the unimaginable, the most cruel experience and 1455 01:30:42,400 --> 01:30:45,680 the most sensitive time of their lives. 1456 01:30:45,960 --> 01:30:48,520 So how would that would shape their lives? 1457 01:30:48,760 --> 01:30:52,560 And above all of that, they still living it exactly. 1458 01:30:52,640 --> 01:30:57,960 And above all of that all, there's no UK now in Gaza. 1459 01:30:58,400 --> 01:31:02,640 Yeah, can Yanni now three years of the genocide. 1460 01:31:03,120 --> 01:31:08,720 There's some volunteers opening like a voluntary schools, but 1461 01:31:08,720 --> 01:31:11,160 there is no. Like sitting on the ground 1462 01:31:11,160 --> 01:31:15,360 without papers, there is no like proper, proper education. 1463 01:31:15,800 --> 01:31:20,000 And that's very crucial because I remember after each Israeli 1464 01:31:20,000 --> 01:31:22,360 aggression, and I used to be angry with that when I was 1465 01:31:22,360 --> 01:31:26,080 young, we would go back to school and the next exact day, 1466 01:31:26,360 --> 01:31:29,880 the university, the next exact day, if we had an exam, we'll 1467 01:31:29,880 --> 01:31:31,520 have it. So they don't. 1468 01:31:31,800 --> 01:31:34,640 We had one of the highest literacy rate in the world. 1469 01:31:34,720 --> 01:31:37,520 Exactly. And one of the reasons why we 1470 01:31:37,520 --> 01:31:40,400 were able to deal with everything that's we've been 1471 01:31:40,400 --> 01:31:44,560 through is the education is the going back to schools, is the 1472 01:31:44,680 --> 01:31:47,920 going back to our colleagues, crying with them, spending time 1473 01:31:48,120 --> 01:31:52,680 going to the break like the the breakfast time together crying 1474 01:31:52,680 --> 01:31:55,880 or playing or running. And yes, This Is Us, you know, 1475 01:31:56,080 --> 01:31:59,480 for the are not having this a chance. 1476 01:31:59,480 --> 01:32:01,200 They have another chance. Beta. 1477 01:32:01,600 --> 01:32:04,920 This is what the world need. Maybe they call it beta. 1478 01:32:05,680 --> 01:32:09,000 They now all the children know that just the way to get in line 1479 01:32:09,000 --> 01:32:12,560 for the food, water to get in line for the food to get 1480 01:32:12,560 --> 01:32:14,920 aligned. This is their life now. 1481 01:32:14,920 --> 01:32:19,800 They'd have no education, no places to play, no safety and 1482 01:32:19,800 --> 01:32:23,680 displacement. And maybe they lose, lose their 1483 01:32:23,680 --> 01:32:30,080 bears and family like Amir and I don't know. 1484 01:32:30,440 --> 01:32:33,720 Actually, this is, it's funny that you mentioned education 1485 01:32:33,720 --> 01:32:36,080 because this is actually what I'm working on with picturing 1486 01:32:36,080 --> 01:32:40,400 Scholasticide because like how the systematic destruction of 1487 01:32:40,440 --> 01:32:44,880 like schools, universities, killing of like scholars and, 1488 01:32:45,080 --> 01:32:48,640 and professors and teachers in Gaza, how that would affect the 1489 01:32:48,640 --> 01:32:51,200 next generations. Maybe now it's not very 1490 01:32:51,200 --> 01:32:55,080 apparent, but if these children don't go to school or like they 1491 01:32:55,080 --> 01:32:58,440 don't learn the which exactly and they're not going to. 1492 01:32:58,960 --> 01:33:03,200 So like if they don't do that, the, the illiteracy rates will 1493 01:33:03,360 --> 01:33:05,440 be very high in the upcoming years. 1494 01:33:05,680 --> 01:33:07,960 And I think this is what Israel does want. 1495 01:33:08,200 --> 01:33:11,040 They don't want us to be an educated population. 1496 01:33:11,040 --> 01:33:13,640 They want, they don't want us to know what are our rights Are 1497 01:33:13,640 --> 01:33:17,400 they want us to be running after a loaf of bread or, or water 1498 01:33:17,760 --> 01:33:21,400 exactly to focus only on surviving, not on being out 1499 01:33:21,400 --> 01:33:25,200 there and to speak on our rights on on our fundamental human 1500 01:33:25,200 --> 01:33:27,520 rights being violated and broken every day. 1501 01:33:28,120 --> 01:33:32,640 And it is very, very, very scary how like kids now they don't see 1502 01:33:32,640 --> 01:33:34,800 schools as the place they go to learn to. 1503 01:33:35,000 --> 01:33:37,520 It's the place where they have to go take shelter and get 1504 01:33:37,520 --> 01:33:39,680 bombed and and lose their families and. 1505 01:33:39,960 --> 01:33:43,240 Yeah, they can't imagine school is a place of education, that's 1506 01:33:43,240 --> 01:33:45,640 true. And also the types of games that 1507 01:33:45,640 --> 01:33:48,280 the children are playing now, those are not the games we 1508 01:33:48,280 --> 01:33:51,960 played when we were young. I was watching a video of little 1509 01:33:51,960 --> 01:33:53,760 children, maybe four or five year olds. 1510 01:33:53,960 --> 01:33:56,560 They're only playing a game of funeral. 1511 01:33:56,680 --> 01:34:02,120 Yes, carrying the you know, when we carry the murders and and a 1512 01:34:02,120 --> 01:34:07,000 wooden, a wooden like thing and we carry them together and we we 1513 01:34:07,000 --> 01:34:09,160 start marching and on. The morning. 1514 01:34:09,560 --> 01:34:10,640 Can I ask you? Why? 1515 01:34:11,280 --> 01:34:13,280 Because this is what they have seen. 1516 01:34:13,280 --> 01:34:16,480 Seen through. This is the years the only thing 1517 01:34:16,480 --> 01:34:20,000 they seeing in front of them. It's just the only thing like 1518 01:34:20,000 --> 01:34:23,320 this so it's coming in their games. 1519 01:34:23,600 --> 01:34:28,320 Can you imagine how it's horrible to child to play with 1520 01:34:28,320 --> 01:34:30,520 this? It's a lost childhood. 1521 01:34:30,520 --> 01:34:33,520 The death is game now or child children. 1522 01:34:33,640 --> 01:34:38,680 Yeah, exactly. And the most cruel thing is that 1523 01:34:38,680 --> 01:34:42,880 everything that Israel is creating and doing and violating 1524 01:34:42,880 --> 01:34:46,880 our lives with is getting into the most intimate aspects of our 1525 01:34:46,880 --> 01:34:48,920 life. Even children lives, their 1526 01:34:48,920 --> 01:34:51,720 games. Their games are things created 1527 01:34:51,720 --> 01:34:55,160 by their imagination. And their imagination now is 1528 01:34:55,160 --> 01:35:02,040 only death and cues and those sort of fearful and disgusting 1529 01:35:02,320 --> 01:35:05,760 reality and stuff. I remember when we were young, 1530 01:35:05,760 --> 01:35:08,160 children would would play like weddings. 1531 01:35:08,920 --> 01:35:11,240 That was funny. But this is something they used 1532 01:35:11,240 --> 01:35:14,960 to see and so they were like doing the same, mimicking it. 1533 01:35:14,960 --> 01:35:18,800 But now they're mimicking funerals, marches. 1534 01:35:18,960 --> 01:35:23,680 Israel is the reason. All of this is the reason and no 1535 01:35:23,680 --> 01:35:28,760 one can stop it. No one in this world but people 1536 01:35:28,760 --> 01:35:34,000 here, they give up when they see like be they see things in Gaza 1537 01:35:34,000 --> 01:35:36,920 and they can't do something. They give up and this is not 1538 01:35:36,920 --> 01:35:39,080 right. Like now people they got give 1539 01:35:39,080 --> 01:35:41,120 up. They can't say do something and 1540 01:35:41,120 --> 01:35:45,360 then they they do things more horrible that they stay silent 1541 01:35:45,600 --> 01:35:47,880 and things go more worse than Gaza. 1542 01:35:48,640 --> 01:35:52,320 But I think we would can help like people here all the time 1543 01:35:52,320 --> 01:35:56,120 that they think when they say this is things for the children 1544 01:35:56,120 --> 01:35:59,480 and things they got emotion and they feel it. 1545 01:35:59,880 --> 01:36:04,320 But then they said I can't do something for like you can. 1546 01:36:04,320 --> 01:36:08,960 I think people can two more that I can imagine the same way the 1547 01:36:08,960 --> 01:36:14,560 outspoken press helped me to to blame up for my scholarship to 1548 01:36:14,560 --> 01:36:20,520 publish my book to get here. It's like everyone can do 1549 01:36:20,520 --> 01:36:23,360 something. Some people can tutoring the 1550 01:36:23,360 --> 01:36:26,520 student in Gaza. Some people can help them to get 1551 01:36:26,520 --> 01:36:31,280 here because you saving education of whole generation. 1552 01:36:31,440 --> 01:36:35,760 Now, if you're doing these things, it's like you made the 1553 01:36:35,840 --> 01:36:38,840 like they made my entire life. Yeah. 1554 01:36:39,520 --> 01:36:43,040 So by continuing supporting the operations of education. 1555 01:36:43,840 --> 01:36:48,960 And there's like 1000 things to do and to help. 1556 01:36:48,960 --> 01:36:53,120 Exactly. Don't let this is yeah, it's 1557 01:36:53,600 --> 01:36:58,920 disappoint, disappointed but and disgusting. 1558 01:36:58,920 --> 01:37:01,600 But don't let these things let you down. 1559 01:37:02,560 --> 01:37:05,160 Make it distinct, push you to do more. 1560 01:37:05,320 --> 01:37:09,760 Yeah, exactly. On that note, on the note of 1561 01:37:10,080 --> 01:37:12,720 everything that's happening and genocide and all of that, it's 1562 01:37:12,720 --> 01:37:17,120 important to remember that the genocide itself, the murder of 1563 01:37:17,320 --> 01:37:20,640 our people, our journalists, our medics, and all of that is not 1564 01:37:20,640 --> 01:37:22,760 something in you. It's something that Israel have 1565 01:37:22,760 --> 01:37:27,200 been doing all over the the years and today commemorates the 1566 01:37:27,760 --> 01:37:32,240 4th anniversary of the murders, direct murders. 1567 01:37:32,240 --> 01:37:39,640 Shrina Barkley, the journalist from from the West Bank and I 1568 01:37:39,640 --> 01:37:44,120 believe all of us like she was killed on the 11th of May and an 1569 01:37:44,120 --> 01:37:49,680 investigation was opened in 2022 and in November and until now, 1570 01:37:50,120 --> 01:37:56,240 no results at all. But to know like it's a story, 1571 01:37:56,240 --> 01:37:59,200 it's, it's a very disgusting thing that investigations are 1572 01:37:59,200 --> 01:38:02,200 only open then there is no actual prosecution and 1573 01:38:02,200 --> 01:38:05,400 accountability for Israel on a side that is this is like very 1574 01:38:05,400 --> 01:38:08,600 disgusting. But at the same time, Shirin 1575 01:38:08,600 --> 01:38:13,200 Abakhla for us, like she, she highlighted our childhood for 1576 01:38:13,200 --> 01:38:15,520 me. She like started by Intifada 1577 01:38:15,760 --> 01:38:18,840 being a Jordan, not being a journalist, but being seen for 1578 01:38:18,840 --> 01:38:21,320 us. And I always remember like when 1579 01:38:21,320 --> 01:38:24,320 I was young, watching the TV with my family, so. 1580 01:38:24,360 --> 01:38:25,720 Cozy. Yes. 1581 01:38:25,720 --> 01:38:29,720 And repeating after her, Sheena Baklay, Al Jazeera, Ramallah, 1582 01:38:29,920 --> 01:38:32,360 Palestine. So this is something that we all 1583 01:38:32,360 --> 01:38:37,320 grew up with and we all memorize the the sentence by sentence 1584 01:38:37,480 --> 01:38:41,920 that she used to say to have her killed in front of cameras and 1585 01:38:41,920 --> 01:38:46,920 nothing happening after that is mental, yes. 1586 01:38:47,520 --> 01:38:51,240 Honestly about that, I was just reading Perfect Victims for 1587 01:38:51,240 --> 01:38:55,520 Muhammad Al Qurd and he has an entire chapter dedicated to 1588 01:38:55,520 --> 01:38:58,880 Shereen's passport. Shereen served the Palestinian 1589 01:38:59,040 --> 01:39:02,160 cause because she's Palestinian and like no one ever knew 1590 01:39:02,160 --> 01:39:04,560 anything about her nationality or anything. 1591 01:39:04,920 --> 01:39:10,200 But it was so ironic how after she was assassinated, she was 1592 01:39:10,200 --> 01:39:13,360 murdered. The only focus was that she's an 1593 01:39:13,480 --> 01:39:16,440 Palestinian American journalist, but she wasn't American. 1594 01:39:16,440 --> 01:39:18,200 It was just a passport that she has. 1595 01:39:18,560 --> 01:39:20,520 But she was Palestinian first and foremost. 1596 01:39:20,880 --> 01:39:23,800 And the question is that why is it that when it is she's a 1597 01:39:23,800 --> 01:39:28,400 Palestinian American, then her, then she matters as a human and 1598 01:39:28,400 --> 01:39:30,720 as a journalist. But if she's only a Palestinian 1599 01:39:30,720 --> 01:39:34,000 journalist, then I think that would have been brushed off 1600 01:39:34,560 --> 01:39:38,080 without being taking care and like, taken into consideration 1601 01:39:38,080 --> 01:39:41,960 without actually like opening an investigation, even if it came 1602 01:39:41,960 --> 01:39:44,280 with no results until now. Can I say something? 1603 01:39:44,600 --> 01:39:47,920 Yeah, yeah, still racism. Racism. 1604 01:39:47,920 --> 01:39:50,840 Yeah, yeah. And racial discrimination and 1605 01:39:50,840 --> 01:39:52,640 everything. Because. 1606 01:39:52,760 --> 01:39:58,920 Whose life is count, whose life is is meaningful, whose death is 1607 01:39:58,920 --> 01:40:02,280 accountable for and whose death is aggrievable. 1608 01:40:02,760 --> 01:40:06,920 And that could be seen exactly and the matter of Chenna 1609 01:40:06,920 --> 01:40:09,960 Barkley. The The interesting thing about 1610 01:40:09,960 --> 01:40:11,880 Chenna Barkley as a journalist is. 1611 01:40:12,760 --> 01:40:16,680 Is the eruption of the people journalists in in Gaza on the 1612 01:40:16,680 --> 01:40:20,400 ground within the genocide? So we know that more than 270 1613 01:40:20,400 --> 01:40:23,040 pristine journalists have been targeted by Israeli occupation 1614 01:40:23,040 --> 01:40:25,960 for only showing the truth. And she was killed while 1615 01:40:25,960 --> 01:40:29,360 covering on genie and camp invasion by Israel. 1616 01:40:29,560 --> 01:40:32,560 So she was killed because she was exposing the truth. 1617 01:40:32,920 --> 01:40:35,880 And for that reason so many people like me, for instance, 1618 01:40:35,880 --> 01:40:39,080 I'm a dentist first of all. And then I've done the PhD in 1619 01:40:39,080 --> 01:40:42,280 sociology and politics, and I have now to claim a position of 1620 01:40:42,280 --> 01:40:46,400 a journalist only to, in a way, commemorate, in a way to 1621 01:40:46,400 --> 01:40:51,240 continue the path that our brilliant journalists have 1622 01:40:51,240 --> 01:40:55,640 already paved for us. So it's a very difficult 1623 01:40:55,640 --> 01:40:59,400 situation that we all live in, but we have to continue. 1624 01:40:59,640 --> 01:41:00,640 Yeah. We have to continue. 1625 01:41:00,720 --> 01:41:02,400 The message Dentist or journalist? 1626 01:41:02,920 --> 01:41:06,920 Sorry, what's better dentist? Or journalist. 1627 01:41:07,160 --> 01:41:10,400 I don't know. It's a difficult question when 1628 01:41:10,400 --> 01:41:14,880 the journalist like because of my life in Gaza and how every 1629 01:41:14,880 --> 01:41:18,480 opportunity that I was able to secure was literally blocked 1630 01:41:18,480 --> 01:41:21,760 because of the Israeli occupation, siege or aggression. 1631 01:41:22,160 --> 01:41:25,560 So I thought I have to be in politics so I'll be able not 1632 01:41:25,560 --> 01:41:28,000 just to help myself. It's fine. 1633 01:41:28,160 --> 01:41:32,440 I'm not anymore going to be able to continue my speciality and 1634 01:41:32,760 --> 01:41:36,360 thing related to Medical Sciences, but for others to be 1635 01:41:36,360 --> 01:41:39,320 able to help others. And this is how I thought and 1636 01:41:39,320 --> 01:41:43,120 built my life through the years until the genocide started. 1637 01:41:43,600 --> 01:41:47,240 But then when the genocide started, I really thought that 1638 01:41:47,400 --> 01:41:52,120 because what I wanted to do is to practice reconstruction 1639 01:41:52,120 --> 01:41:55,560 surgery to complete specialization in that, and it 1640 01:41:55,560 --> 01:41:58,040 was mostly needed within the genocide. 1641 01:41:58,600 --> 01:42:05,560 So I I don't thinking what if I managed to secure the 1642 01:42:05,560 --> 01:42:09,600 opportunities that I had and was blocked by Israel, If I was now 1643 01:42:09,760 --> 01:42:13,560 a surgeon, would I have been helping him out so much than a 1644 01:42:13,560 --> 01:42:18,960 person who just speaks and God knows who listens to us to stop 1645 01:42:19,120 --> 01:42:21,360 the genocide. So it's a difficult question. 1646 01:42:22,160 --> 01:42:26,080 I don't have an immediate answer, but it's something I 1647 01:42:26,080 --> 01:42:29,320 always grapple with and think. Since I come here, I see all the 1648 01:42:29,320 --> 01:42:32,760 people here, all the Palestinian, they come, they 1649 01:42:32,760 --> 01:42:34,280 went. To the political. 1650 01:42:34,280 --> 01:42:37,320 Side, Yeah. In a way or another, it's in 1651 01:42:37,320 --> 01:42:38,840 with them. There they are. 1652 01:42:39,320 --> 01:42:42,880 Their background is different, but then they are in the 1653 01:42:42,880 --> 01:42:44,000 politicals. Yeah. 1654 01:42:44,320 --> 01:42:46,600 So I was thinking is this is my future? 1655 01:42:47,960 --> 01:42:51,000 We don't skirt. It's difficult because you try 1656 01:42:51,000 --> 01:42:55,400 to help and there is so little venues where we as Palestinians 1657 01:42:55,400 --> 01:42:59,320 can actually help in so. We'll see. 1658 01:42:59,320 --> 01:43:02,640 We'll. See, looking forward, the future 1659 01:43:02,800 --> 01:43:08,000 is just in front of us. So on the dehumanization point 1660 01:43:08,000 --> 01:43:11,800 that you were talking about, there was an image on a coffee 1661 01:43:11,800 --> 01:43:16,840 in Gaza, luxurious coffee that we need to to to see together. 1662 01:43:16,880 --> 01:43:19,560 Yeah, to see how they have described it. 1663 01:43:19,560 --> 01:43:25,240 So they described luxurious Gaza cafes, Pocket white, the hole in 1664 01:43:25,240 --> 01:43:28,920 the genocide narrative, like if it doesn't exist. 1665 01:43:29,480 --> 01:43:33,200 And this is the luxurious coffee that they are describing. 1666 01:43:33,600 --> 01:43:35,400 A makeshift. Yeah, you are. 1667 01:43:35,400 --> 01:43:39,880 And of wooden sticks people are coming here for to study 1668 01:43:39,880 --> 01:43:40,960 workspace. Yeah, yeah. 1669 01:43:41,040 --> 01:43:43,400 To study, to work to this luxury. 1670 01:43:45,960 --> 01:43:47,680 Yeah. They are describing it as 1671 01:43:47,680 --> 01:43:49,480 luxurious. And this is really. 1672 01:43:49,520 --> 01:43:51,840 Yeah. I think they are not white, so 1673 01:43:52,640 --> 01:43:56,840 this is too much less. For them exactly spot on. 1674 01:43:57,080 --> 01:43:59,320 You're right. They think this is luxurious 1675 01:43:59,320 --> 01:44:01,680 because it's Palestinians from who left. 1676 01:44:01,680 --> 01:44:05,840 The genocide that they claim and they're do is that they're not 1677 01:44:05,960 --> 01:44:10,080 not a real genocide. They yeah, they have so many 1678 01:44:10,080 --> 01:44:13,840 extras, say some, some I think some this. 1679 01:44:13,840 --> 01:44:15,360 Yeah, this is too much for them, man. 1680 01:44:15,360 --> 01:44:18,960 This is no longer than the Julia comment, that of about the 1681 01:44:18,960 --> 01:44:20,920 marathon. Coming from the same. 1682 01:44:21,920 --> 01:44:26,000 This is the Western media that doesn't want to see Gazans as a 1683 01:44:26,000 --> 01:44:28,120 human. That called Dendrajab a young 1684 01:44:28,120 --> 01:44:31,440 woman, which when she was like 3 years old, four years old. 1685 01:44:31,920 --> 01:44:35,920 So yeah, it's I don't know what to say. 1686 01:44:36,040 --> 01:44:39,400 I believe it's no comment. I think they're not used to see 1687 01:44:39,400 --> 01:44:43,400 this because New York, they was saying all the time just blood. 1688 01:44:43,400 --> 01:44:47,120 So this is people alive and having computers and sitting 1689 01:44:47,120 --> 01:44:48,200 down. This is too much. 1690 01:44:48,200 --> 01:44:48,560 Yeah. The. 1691 01:44:48,560 --> 01:44:51,760 Stereotype of Gaza just doesn't match this pictures. 1692 01:44:52,080 --> 01:44:55,920 Yeah, just report them to Israel to finish them so they can. 1693 01:44:56,400 --> 01:44:59,320 So this is maybe they gonna be satisfied for them. 1694 01:45:00,840 --> 01:45:04,360 It's a very disgusting world to see, the whole the whole thing, 1695 01:45:04,360 --> 01:45:07,640 the comment of it, rather than commenting on the reality that 1696 01:45:08,200 --> 01:45:10,400 it's a makeshift place, it doesn't have any, that it's 1697 01:45:10,400 --> 01:45:12,720 people. Trying to make a living, to 1698 01:45:12,720 --> 01:45:15,000 survive. What is going on? 1699 01:45:15,000 --> 01:45:18,280 Yes. But it's again a complicity of 1700 01:45:18,280 --> 01:45:20,640 the Western media. It's not that they don't see, 1701 01:45:20,920 --> 01:45:24,760 they're choosing not to see and to block the reality of the 1702 01:45:24,760 --> 01:45:29,600 situation. So on that and speaking on that 1703 01:45:29,840 --> 01:45:32,960 topic, exactly the dehumanization, the blocking of 1704 01:45:32,960 --> 01:45:36,280 narrative. We've seen Palestinians in Gaza, 1705 01:45:36,320 --> 01:45:40,000 West Bank, through the genocide and even before speaking about 1706 01:45:40,000 --> 01:45:44,400 Israeli settler colonial sexual violence against them at 1707 01:45:44,400 --> 01:45:48,520 detention camps, at invaded, like ground invaded areas in 1708 01:45:48,560 --> 01:45:52,960 Gaza and even in like invading of homes in the West Bank. 1709 01:45:52,960 --> 01:45:54,640 And Palestinians have been speaking about that. 1710 01:45:54,640 --> 01:45:57,920 And in the genocide, we've seen people going out in testimony 1711 01:45:57,920 --> 01:46:01,360 saying that they were raped by Israeli soldiers, female or 1712 01:46:01,360 --> 01:46:03,480 male. They were raped by metal sticks, 1713 01:46:03,480 --> 01:46:05,960 by dogs, trained dogs to rape them. 1714 01:46:06,480 --> 01:46:12,960 And people were like disbelieving, yeah, no, no way. 1715 01:46:12,960 --> 01:46:15,560 And everyone's silencing that and everything. 1716 01:46:15,560 --> 01:46:20,760 And a New York article was published about the rape of dogs 1717 01:46:21,200 --> 01:46:26,520 and and it's yeah, the title is the silence that means the rape 1718 01:46:26,520 --> 01:46:30,360 of Palestinians. So finally such media outlet is 1719 01:46:30,360 --> 01:46:33,400 talking about it. And we're hoping out of this 1720 01:46:33,480 --> 01:46:35,600 more people will be talking about it. 1721 01:46:35,800 --> 01:46:39,200 So what do you think about this the the coverage of the pre 1722 01:46:39,360 --> 01:46:41,240 Israeli rape for the Palestinians? 1723 01:46:41,520 --> 01:46:46,640 I think that it it's Yeni better late than never because like 1724 01:46:46,640 --> 01:46:50,200 we've been the reports about the rape had and like the sexual 1725 01:46:50,200 --> 01:46:52,800 violence have been reported for two years. 1726 01:46:53,200 --> 01:46:56,000 EU to medical human rights monitor have published so many 1727 01:46:56,240 --> 01:46:59,920 researches about this and when I first saw this yesterday I was 1728 01:46:59,920 --> 01:47:04,040 like finally well the world now believe and this is like like 1729 01:47:04,040 --> 01:47:08,920 the first idea that came to mind because people are getting raped 1730 01:47:09,200 --> 01:47:12,520 stories are coming out of Gaza every single day for two years. 1731 01:47:12,680 --> 01:47:15,440 Where was the Malia their? Faces the journalist. 1732 01:47:15,440 --> 01:47:19,160 I give it this to money like by himself standing that I was 1733 01:47:19,400 --> 01:47:21,360 raped by Israelis and no one believed. 1734 01:47:22,400 --> 01:47:24,840 But hope it's not about not believing. 1735 01:47:24,960 --> 01:47:27,120 But it's. I don't want to believe you. 1736 01:47:27,200 --> 01:47:29,000 Exactly. I hear you. 1737 01:47:29,000 --> 01:47:31,120 I see that. I don't want to believe you 1738 01:47:31,440 --> 01:47:36,240 because this is not my mother's. Yeah, They made me to me more 1739 01:47:36,240 --> 01:47:41,120 than to talk to you about that. So I have the money and I have a 1740 01:47:41,120 --> 01:47:46,320 vacation in New York or another place, like in the beach with my 1741 01:47:46,320 --> 01:47:50,360 wife and my kids is OK. And then the other wall is 1742 01:47:50,360 --> 01:47:51,440 burned. It's OK. 1743 01:47:53,320 --> 01:47:54,920 Such a shame. Well, such a shame. 1744 01:47:55,200 --> 01:47:59,280 But from that point, so you said human rights organisations, 1745 01:47:59,280 --> 01:48:05,760 human rights officers, we're talking about the UN bodies, 1746 01:48:05,760 --> 01:48:08,960 we're talking about so many Palestinian, pro Palestinian, 1747 01:48:08,960 --> 01:48:12,240 but also some Israeli articles and journalists. 1748 01:48:12,240 --> 01:48:15,760 We're talking about and documenting all of those crimes 1749 01:48:16,320 --> 01:48:19,120 and literally nothing is happening because we see the 1750 01:48:19,120 --> 01:48:22,080 continuation of the genocide on a silent mood now. 1751 01:48:22,680 --> 01:48:27,160 So do you actually still believe in international law as a lawyer 1752 01:48:27,160 --> 01:48:30,120 yourself? This is a very funny question. 1753 01:48:30,480 --> 01:48:34,320 Say be silent. Actually, yes. 1754 01:48:35,280 --> 01:48:38,200 And I know it's very surprising to say that, but yes, 1755 01:48:38,880 --> 01:48:42,000 questioning the legitimacy of international law and like, why 1756 01:48:42,000 --> 01:48:45,360 does it exist is as good as it's a tale, as good as all this 1757 01:48:45,360 --> 01:48:48,360 time. And like we have seen that and 1758 01:48:48,360 --> 01:48:53,160 like during the Cold War, during World War 2, during Iraq war and 1759 01:48:53,160 --> 01:48:55,760 everything. And every time it is being 1760 01:48:55,760 --> 01:48:59,480 questioned is every time that it proves why it is even more 1761 01:48:59,480 --> 01:49:03,920 necessary than before. And I think that by saying that 1762 01:49:03,920 --> 01:49:06,600 we don't believe in international law, then we are 1763 01:49:06,600 --> 01:49:10,360 giving a legitimate cause for the violations to continue to 1764 01:49:10,360 --> 01:49:14,600 happen without being addressed. Because if we we didn't have the 1765 01:49:14,600 --> 01:49:17,600 international law, OK, we wouldn't have been able to call 1766 01:49:17,600 --> 01:49:20,720 it a genocide. International law, International 1767 01:49:20,720 --> 01:49:24,040 Criminal law, the Rome Statute of the ICC is the reason why we 1768 01:49:24,040 --> 01:49:26,120 can call it a genocide, right or not. 1769 01:49:26,240 --> 01:49:30,720 It has the elements of the genocide, the ICJ and the South 1770 01:49:30,720 --> 01:49:34,280 Africa versus Israel, the ICC indictments for Netanyahu and 1771 01:49:34,280 --> 01:49:35,920 Gallant. That's all international law. 1772 01:49:36,080 --> 01:49:37,000 I. Agree with you. 1773 01:49:37,000 --> 01:49:40,560 Can I? Just finish my but I think. 1774 01:49:40,640 --> 01:49:43,960 That back to you. But I think that like being 1775 01:49:44,040 --> 01:49:45,760 saying that international law is not important. 1776 01:49:45,760 --> 01:49:49,400 It's just like how like for example, for domestic law, if we 1777 01:49:49,400 --> 01:49:52,240 didn't have the domestic law, people would go around killing 1778 01:49:52,240 --> 01:49:54,560 each other. Murder would be legitimate 1779 01:49:54,640 --> 01:49:56,360 there. It's not a violation, therefore 1780 01:49:56,360 --> 01:49:59,360 it's not punishable. Enforcement is the problem. 1781 01:49:59,360 --> 01:50:01,280 It's not the international law itself. 1782 01:50:01,760 --> 01:50:05,320 And enforcement of the law is a bit difficult because in the end 1783 01:50:05,320 --> 01:50:08,120 it depends on states, it depends on contributions. 1784 01:50:08,560 --> 01:50:12,480 But going forward, I think we will be able to see that it 1785 01:50:12,480 --> 01:50:15,200 started with the ICJ, South Africa versus Israel. 1786 01:50:15,200 --> 01:50:17,120 It started with Netanyahu's indictment. 1787 01:50:17,120 --> 01:50:21,360 Netanyahu is like the first Western country ally to ever be 1788 01:50:21,360 --> 01:50:24,080 indicted in the ICC. And that itself is a very big 1789 01:50:24,080 --> 01:50:27,040 improvement and that we should like take into consideration. 1790 01:50:27,720 --> 01:50:29,320 So I do believe in international law, OK. 1791 01:50:29,600 --> 01:50:32,840 So there is something to have hope on and celebrate about 1792 01:50:33,000 --> 01:50:35,480 until we hear from my aunt. What do you think I? 1793 01:50:36,280 --> 01:50:41,640 Am I'm so nice, but you're saying so nice and I, I want to 1794 01:50:41,640 --> 01:50:45,880 believe it from all my heart. The international law, the yeah, 1795 01:50:45,880 --> 01:50:49,200 they call it genocide. But if they call it, if they not 1796 01:50:49,200 --> 01:50:51,880 call it, what did they do to us? They do. 1797 01:50:51,960 --> 01:50:54,320 Did nothing. So again, the implementation, 1798 01:50:54,320 --> 01:50:58,320 the power to actually, but. You know how difficult it is to 1799 01:50:58,320 --> 01:51:01,280 be called a genocide? It's until today all many of 1800 01:51:01,320 --> 01:51:03,760 like the Western countries still fight the word genocide. 1801 01:51:04,400 --> 01:51:09,440 It's a very powerful thing to have like a state, like being 1802 01:51:09,440 --> 01:51:13,520 labeled as a genocidal state committing genocide against 1803 01:51:13,520 --> 01:51:16,040 people. So for us as Palestinians and 1804 01:51:16,040 --> 01:51:19,080 anyone who's under oppression, what we expected from the world 1805 01:51:19,080 --> 01:51:21,360 is not just to recognize it, but to stop it. 1806 01:51:21,960 --> 01:51:25,120 But the issues that international law is in a state 1807 01:51:25,800 --> 01:51:29,000 where they are very much. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1808 01:51:29,160 --> 01:51:34,720 But only calling it a genocide is progression, and that itself 1809 01:51:34,960 --> 01:51:38,400 is painful for us and for everyone else. 1810 01:51:38,760 --> 01:51:44,840 So before we end, if you can hire, tell us a little bit about 1811 01:51:44,960 --> 01:51:48,040 your book. It was shortlisted for the 1812 01:51:48,040 --> 01:51:50,320 British award. Congratulations. 1813 01:51:50,360 --> 01:51:55,840 Thank you so much, the only things make me comfort in this 1814 01:51:55,840 --> 01:51:59,240 is. Room make me speak comfortably 1815 01:51:59,240 --> 01:52:03,480 this is olive tree all the time I was looking for it it's hold 1816 01:52:03,480 --> 01:52:07,680 me up honestly because. It's remind me where I'm 1817 01:52:07,680 --> 01:52:10,000 displaced. Everything is start with me with 1818 01:52:10,040 --> 01:52:14,080 olive trees. Just remind me with when I was 1819 01:52:14,080 --> 01:52:18,240 woke up every morning in Mossery and the first thing with the 1820 01:52:18,240 --> 01:52:20,480 window when I open it is Olivet tree. 1821 01:52:21,400 --> 01:52:25,400 And this is Olivet trees is my fatherland is full with Olivet 1822 01:52:25,400 --> 01:52:30,800 trees that he planted it and I was like kids 10 years and my 1823 01:52:30,800 --> 01:52:35,120 youngest brother and sister, we were playing around him while he 1824 01:52:35,120 --> 01:52:38,000 had planted these trees. And then we grow. 1825 01:52:38,000 --> 01:52:44,760 Up and this place in this years and my dad passed away and and 1826 01:52:44,800 --> 01:52:47,960 it's like the olive tree is now like. 1827 01:52:48,120 --> 01:52:52,720 Huge, massive. And I'm like, it's when I was a 1828 01:52:52,720 --> 01:52:56,360 kid it was the same tool but now it's like more than me. 1829 01:52:57,360 --> 01:53:01,760 And this remind me with my dad and this remind me with my 1830 01:53:01,760 --> 01:53:04,760 grandfather and connected me with the land. 1831 01:53:05,520 --> 01:53:07,360 And also remind me with the tree every. 1832 01:53:07,360 --> 01:53:10,040 Day when I woke up, I say to the olive tree. 1833 01:53:10,040 --> 01:53:11,880 It's crazy. I say good morning olive tree. 1834 01:53:12,360 --> 01:53:16,080 I'm trying to hold myself in the genocide so I'm talking to 1835 01:53:16,160 --> 01:53:23,840 anything to give me help. And it's like like when I was 1836 01:53:23,840 --> 01:53:26,840 getting bad and like the situation is so bad. 1837 01:53:26,840 --> 01:53:29,840 I'm going like. Going around the olive trees and 1838 01:53:29,840 --> 01:53:34,680 remembering my dad and so in the genocide, it's hold me to my too 1839 01:53:34,680 --> 01:53:37,280 many times. And that's why I called my book 1840 01:53:37,320 --> 01:53:42,760 the age of olive trees because I feel it's my age, my father age 1841 01:53:43,520 --> 01:53:48,720 and it's like it's our land. The The oldest tree in Gaza is. 1842 01:53:48,720 --> 01:53:54,640 More older than the occupation age, so the olive tree speak 1843 01:53:54,640 --> 01:53:56,240 always. Nice. 1844 01:53:56,280 --> 01:53:58,360 Very powerful. Yeah. 1845 01:53:58,600 --> 01:53:59,880 Thank you so much. Hiya. 1846 01:54:00,200 --> 01:54:02,400 Thank you so much, Dana, for joining us today. 1847 01:54:02,400 --> 01:54:03,640 Thank you for having us. Hello. 1848 01:54:03,800 --> 01:54:10,520 For sure, it was a very painful, inspiring, traumatic, I wouldn't 1849 01:54:10,520 --> 01:54:12,200 say to me, but for sure for both of you. 1850 01:54:12,240 --> 01:54:16,080 And I'm so sorry for that. But yeah, very necessary for us 1851 01:54:16,160 --> 01:54:18,400 and also for everyone who's listening to us. 1852 01:54:19,080 --> 01:54:22,560 On that note, thank you so much for everyone who's been watching 1853 01:54:22,560 --> 01:54:25,320 until now. And see you on CHANNEL next 1854 01:54:25,320 --> 01:54:29,000 week, Wednesday 7. PM have a goodbye bye.