What they're trying to to portray Palestinian men as is
that every Palestinian man is a terrorist because they know in
Gaza and we all know that the political wings or the armed
resistance doesn't recruit women or children.
So they find a way to say that every man is a terrorist.
Even the children, the male children, they would say that
those are terrorists in the making.
And even in the news today, in the news of the Western media
outlets, we say that like mostly children, women, women and
children being starved, but also men are being starved.
That's the point. But this is how the West
portrayed us and unfortunately the Western audiences and the
Western people took that and they would never talk about men
as being sufferers of this genocide, of this Holocaust.
What I'm trying to say is that Israel is the sole problem here.
If Israel doesn't exist as a colonial, For me, it's a
terrorist project that has been unleashed in the Holocaust in
Gaza for the past three years, that has been torturing
Palestinians inside Gaza and in the West Bank and across
Palestine, occupied Palestine for many, many years, for the
last 75 years and more. If this like if they were not
here in the 1st place, all what we are talking about wouldn't be
here. So this is what we need to focus
on. Welcome to Palestinia.
Today we're joined by Abu Baker, a Palestinian journalist from
Gaza who has been documenting from inside Gaza for the last 18
months. Four months ago, Abu Baker left
Gaza as one of the few journalists were able to leave
Gaza within the genocide in a time where Israel is
deliberately targeting journalists.
Since the beginning of the Israeli genocide over Gaza,
since October 2023, Israel have murdered more than 238
journalists. And this number is very huge to
the level that the Watson Institution Cost of War Project
have said that this is the littlest murder of journalists
that they have ever documented. The number of journalists killed
in Gaza in less than two years is more than those killed in the
US civil war, in the World War One and World War 2 and
Yugoslavia war, Korean War, Vietnam War, Cambodia war,
Afghanistan war, and Ukraine war.
So today we're talking about dehumanization of Palestinians
and dehumanization of men specifically in Gaza and
Palestine. So, Abu Baker, could you tell us
more about yourself? Who are you?
How was your life before the beginning of the genocide?
And what changes happened after the beginning of the genocide?
First, thanks for having me the forks over the 7th.
Life has always been miserable in Gaza, even forks over the 7th
and people were suffering from a lot of things, including the
unemployed, unemployment and including the different and
various escalations alongside the the different wars that
happened because folk to the 7th.
There were four wars that really occurred in Gaza in which more
than 4000 or 500 people have been killed, including more than
1500 children. So live in Gaza with folk to the
7th for many people across the globe of sorry for many people
inside the territory, it was always miserable and people
couldn't even find a proper dwelling to to set him to live
in. And a lot of people could not
even provide themselves with everyday meal.
And people were working every single day for many hours.
But unfortunately couldn't even find a way to live under the
ongoing blockade that has been imposed not three months ago.
Not this gender and this genocide, but since 2006.
So for all, for more than 20 years, Gaza since 2006 has been
under this very crippling and stifling siege that has caused
numerous deaths inside Gaza. When I mean this, when I talk
about this, I talk about the different number of people, the,
the huge number of people who died in Gaza because they were
denied entry, denied exit outside Gaza to receive treat,
medical treatment for their cancer.
And a lot of other people, students particularly, they were
denied a permit to travel outside to continue their
education, to pursue their dreams.
And at the same time, a lot of the business businessmen and
businesswomen as well, they were also restricted by his way, to
move outside and broker some deals that would really improve
the situation in Gaza. So Israel was always controlling
the number of calories in Gaza. It was just deciding to always
decided the food items that should have been allowed in the
electronics, every other thing, the building materials as well.
So that's why Gaza has always been suffering, not since
October the 7th, but before that.
But I understand the point right now.
And I can tell you that I share this feeling as well that a lot
of people in Gaza say that we miss Gaza before October the 7th
because they people had something to to enjoy.
Even it was better and it was like it was kind of not the best
and now they have nothing. They've lost everything.
So they wish they could have that thing there to where kind
of complain, not complaining about, but that kind of thing
that they once had better than nothing, which is happening at
the moment. So for me, the same because I'm
a younger student. I was a student, my education
was interrupted because of the genocide.
I should have graduated in 2024 for the genocide and interrupted
my education. My university was reduced
trouble. The same that happened.
I I was obsessed with sports, with football in particular.
I was stuff for football reporting and football
commentating. That's what I was doing and
something I wish I could do the way I really wanted.
And that's my dream, essentially.
But unfortunately the genocide broke out and then everything
had to change. And I knew that point when the
genocide began, that I have a voice, I know how to address the
Western audiences, in particular the English speaking audiences.
So I just had to pick up my pencil, my pen, and utter the
words to defend my home. Thank you so much.
And that's very important. You know, since the beginning of
the genocide or even way before, since the establishing of Israel
and even before Israel have been always dehumanising the
Palestinians, but on another layer, but a serial men have
been way more dehumanized. So I remember at the beginning
of the genocide and even before people were saying, when looking
at men kissing their daughters or saying goodbye for them or
grieving for grandchildren or even for their wives, people
were shocked that our men have feelings.
They can cry, they can't care, they can love because this is
not the stereotypic image that they were raised on or they were
aware of. So what do you think about this
dehumanisation and why is it used to the against the
Palestinians? How it's helpful for Israel to
dehumanise us. Because, well, what they're
trying to to portray Palestinian men as is that every Palestinian
man is a terrorist because they know in Gaza and we all know
that the political ranks or the armed resistance doesn't recruit
women or children. So they find a way to say that
every man is a terrorist. Even the children, the male
children, they would say that those are terrorists in the
making. We've seen that.
And even in the news today, in the news of the Western media
outlets, we say that like mostly children, women, women and
children being starved, but also men are being starved.
That's the point. But this is how the West
portrayed us and unfortunately the Western audiences and the
Western people took that and they would never took about men
as being sufferers of this genocide, of this Holocaust.
And that would go for Israel as an excuse our pretext to bomb
everywhere. We're main, we're main goal.
And that's what we've seen over the past two years, almost two
years, that we're seeing two men carrying a tent side the street
walking unarmed peacefully, just they want to have been displaced
and then an Israeli drone would attack them, would bombed them
in the street. But it even reached a level way
worse than that when we saw the little child girl's child who
was killed and bombed when Israel had drone carrying a
gallon of a gallon of water. That is the parapourism of
Israel. But the dehumanisation of
Palestinian men hasn't been like, as you said, has been for
so long, for literally so long, because that's how they want to
find excuses to bomb and annihilate society.
And of course, in Gaza, men constitute a huge part of the
society. So if we can, as they say,
eliminate or murder as many men as we can, then we have a, an
orphan, the child, we have an, we have a widow, a widow to
women. And that we can by that
destroying entire families and by destroying more families in
through killing men, then you have that kind of annihilation
process that Israel has been seeking out for many years.
But people Israel wouldn't have done this without the help,
without the help of Western media outlets and without the
help of the politicians. Because when we are looking
right now at the statements, and I say the new corn statements
that are being produced or said by the Western politicians and
the European politicians, they say that like the suffering in
Gaza has reached unimaginable levels.
Children, women are suffering. So there's no mention of women
of women. So they take what Israel says as
men are terrorists in Gaza. They're all Hamas.
There's no way that's how they think it because Israel kind of
enforces this narrative into their minds.
And that's the meaning of occupation, that those Western
politicians, they're not, they're physically free, but
mentally they're occupied. They just say what Israel wants
from them, what the Western Empire wants from them.
What are you as British Empire wants from them?
So they're kneeling to the empire.
And that, for me, is the opposite meaning of freedom of
dignity. They have no dignity.
They have no freedom. And they are just being
robotized by this empire to say what Israel wants them to say.
And they are indeed, by their statements, they're not helping
us, but they are kind of finding an execution reason for Israel
to kill men and to obliterate the entire Society of 2 million
people who haven't been suffering since COVID the 7th,
but for many, many, many years. So this narrative and this kind
of agenda that has unfortunately that has been instilled into the
hearts of Gaza, into the hearts of Gaza has been taken wild
wide. And that's what's causing us the
suffering at the moment and agony and the relentless grief.
That is true. They have been doing a very hard
job making Palestinian men Nazi and making Palestinian men
silenced and also seen as terrorists as you have
described. And this is part of something
they've done. In 2009, AUS based Israel lobic
group called the Israeli Project have released a global language
dictionary which is described as a guide for leaders on the front
line of fighting the media war for Israel.
And in that they said, and I quote from chapter 4 that was
pushing Hamas as fundamental to any discussion on Palestine.
And I quote from them, you must isolate Hamas as a critical
cause of the delay in achieving A2 state solution, the biggest
source of harm to Palestinian people and the reason why Israel
must defend its people from living in terror.
So this is what was written in 2009, not not new.
And for sure they have been using that narrative and
implementing it way before then the book was written.
So why do you think, What does that tell us?
They just want an excuse, as I told you, and they want anything
to take to do whatever they want inside Gaza, and that's
unfortunately what they have been successful in.
What I'm trying to say is that Israel is the sole problem here.
If Israel doesn't exist as a colonial, for me, it's a
terrorist project that has been a Malaysian Holocaust in Gaza
for the past three years. And there has been torturing
Palestinians inside Gaza and in the West Bank and across
Palestine, occupied Palestine for many, many years, for the
last seven to five years and more.
If this, like if they were not here in the 1st place, all what
we are talking about wouldn't be here.
So this is what we need to focus on.
That's the truth that people are deliberately turning a blind eye
to and they're trying to take us, embroil us into their own
zone. Because in the West Bank, and as
it's not that more settlements, we have more and more
settlements, more people are being detained, more farmers are
being shifted. And we've seen that recently and
more people, more children are being impressed and subjugated
and suffocated. The number of settlements that
have been that has been built since October, the 7th is now
way bigger, the 4th of the 7th, although there's not a single
Hamas member in the West Bank. OK.
And another point, because we've seen the Hamas Protestant Israel
has regurgitating this propaganda over the past years
for the Western audiences who have taken this book of Aganda
for granted and have believed it.
We've seen a number of protests in Gaza that were against
Thomas. What have they done for those
people? Have they provided them with
sanctuary? No.
Have they improved their own situation?
No. But I know some of them, some of
those who have protested against Hamas.
And we can't blame anyone in Gaza.
Everyone in Gaza has a right to say whatever they want.
But although they did this to satisfy Israel's claims, nothing
happened. But some of them who may not
have been killed by Israel. So Israel does just say it's
Hamas. But Israel, what it wants, is it
clear? We want Gaza to be occupied and
that's what they are. And had what even the
Palestinian Authority at the moment, which we know helps
Israel in in in detaining Palestinians and in killing them
and in even finding their places.
And they have kind of submitted to Israel's demands.
What have they done? They haven't done anything.
Literally nothing has been achieved but just more
settlements, more subjugation, more suffocation and more
restrictions in demolishing of houses.
Last time we saw the video in one of the Palestinian homes in
the occupied Palestinian territories of a man being
forced to destroy his own house, which was built like after many
years, years after 10s of years of work and, and, and every and
exhaustion everything. This is not psychological
terrorism. And they've totally ignored this
case. This is story when it comes to
Palestinian hostages, the Palestinian men who are detained
now they're a bunch of murderers and Israeli officials, when they
go on social media or when they are platformed, because they are
consistently platformed by Western media, what they say is
basically that these Palestinian men who many of them, many of
them I've met, many of them, they haven't take it like they
have been detained from inside cars without any charges,
without any trials. And one of them told me one time
that he was just with his family, he separated the Israeli
soldiers, separated the family. He took the man, detained him,
and then left the family alone. So it's been deliberate, that
has been deliberate to the humanized Palestinian men.
And whatever suffering we've seen or we will see in the next
days, hopefully it will end to towards those Palestinian men.
There will be no coverage of it. Just focus on the children,
focus on the women, ignore the men.
But in fact, he's really man is tortured or whatever.
Then the Western media will read and write and that can tell you
the level of supermacism, white supermacism and racism those
Westerners have had for many, many years.
But we have been fooled by that. That's true.
And in the Western media, they always talk about Israeli
soldiers who have been either killed or like came from Gaza,
calling them teenagers. But when it comes for like
Palestinian boys or girls, the the children, they call them
women, ladies or. Minors.
So it's just like a, a, a play between them and Israel to the
humanized Palestinian, specifically Palestinian men,
but also when we're talking about the creating, overseeing
that Israel is always doing. We remember 2 weeks ago when
Israel have bombarded Shifa Hospital, bombarded not just a
hospital but a journalist tent where sex journalists were doing
their work and they killed the sex journalist Jazeera crew,
Alastair Sharif and his colleagues, Mohammed Kareka,
Ibrahim Zaheer, Mohammed Nofal, Musab Sharif and also Mohammed
Khalti. So this is all part of this,
like creating the scene with killing journalists and others.
Have you ever met Anna Sharif or any of his?
I haven't Anna Sharif, but I just want to to say this, and
probably I haven't even talked about it before, but I know
Muhammad Al Khalde, one of those who were killed, who was killed
in this air strike. And I've sat like I've sat with
him multiple times during the genocide.
He was working alongside me at Lox Montes Hospital because he
was in durable during the genocide before the ceasefire,
but then he had to relocate when the ceasefire was was
implemented. Mohammed Al Khaldeh told me when
I was sitting with him that he was interrogated by Hamas.
OK. And then Israel said that this
is a terrorist cell. It's a Hamas cell.
So just tell me someone who has been interrogated by Hamas,
someone who would literally like doesn't have anything to do with
Hamas. Why did you hate him?
And in war crimes committed against Palestinians, that's not
a war crime. OK, that's good.
That could be a mistake or an error as Israel claims.
And that they would take this and that we, we, we oblige
Israel or we ask Israel, we demand from Israel to
investigate itself, to do a further investigation.
That kind of narrative that has been going on for many years.
That's the thing. That we have and that we need to
challenge them that we need to eradicate because other than
that, this won't go on. So if Anna Sharif had any
political affiliation and by the way, he had a photo with
Ehsanwar, OK, the leader of Hamas and that photo was used to
murder him. The same habit with Hassan
Slayer, the famous renowned journalist and demanded him,
because it's like a part of the Geneva Convention is that those
even if they are fighters, OK, even if they are soldiers, they
are wanted to receive a treatment.
You have no authority, you have no right to bomb them.
They bumped them first time and they mounted them inside the
hospital ward. That's how far Israel has gone.
So when it comes to anaesthesia, Sharif, give me one photo of him
holding a gun. He never held a gun in my life,
in his life. And even in one of his times he
was calling for a ceasefire and he was saying he was going on
the Hamas negotiating team to accept a ceasefire.
He never shared a statement by Hamas as a sheriff or any of
those with him. He never said what Hamas went to
like was saying over the past two years, he's a journalist,
he's working, he has been working 20.
He had been working 24 hours a day.
He's been posting on social. He had been posting on social
media 24 hours a day. He was reporting relentlessly.
He had been reporting. He never stopped.
He literally never stopped. So when did he have the time to
do secret terrorism? When did he have the time to
join an armed resistance group to attack Israeli soldiers?
When did he have the time? Or give me one post of Vanessa
Sharif regurgitating what or what Hamas has said or even
talked about it like I was a journalist.
Hamas never came to me and said to me, said to me what I did.
I was there at the hospital. I reported it from every single
part of this trip, from the north, from the South, from the
middle area, from central Gaza. Never, not a single time it
happened. Did it happen when Hamas coming
to me and telling me what to say.
So all what Israel is saying is literally nonsense.
Hamas or journalists in Gaza are working under duress and the
dehumanization of Palestinian journalists that they are not
trustworthy and they need honest unfiltered reporting in Gaza.
That is nonsense. Western journalists, they went
to Occupy Palestine when it was hit by the Iranian strikes and
they were literally parroting Israel's lies.
Literally the same. They never talked about, sorry,
military infrastructure embedded between civilians.
They never talked about Israel using their own people as human
chills after the military's infrastructure that was seen
clearly in the footage of the destruction inside occupied
Palestine. And then they never talked about
the military personnel in Israel, whether they are police
or they're not police, because in Gaza the equation is used and
it hasn't been upended that the police in Gaza are Hamas,
because Hamas is the government. Of course, then the Likud party
is the government. So everyone working in the good
government and the good government and the good party,
including doctors, nurses, are legitimate targets if we talk
about this logic. So, but people will not talk
about this. So it's a Hamas run health
ministry, but it's not a Likud run health ministry.
That's how they are depicting the situation in Gaza, which is
really infuriating. So we're not going to judge
people by stand their political affiliations.
This is the deliberate dehumanization of people.
And that's why people in the West are living in humiliation,
because they can't, they can't fight back against this mental
occupation of capitalism, of individualism, of individualism
and capitalism, capitalism, because that's how they want
people to want them to get distracted to work every single
day. And that's what I've witnessed,
like this was what I've observed over the past four months since
I've left Gaza, that people don't have the time to talk
about their own feelings and what they believe in.
And when you can't criticize someone, then you are simply
occupied. Why do you think the West is
choosing to abide by the Israeli narrative?
Why they're choosing to fall for the debate?
You know, you talked about Israeli bombarding of hospital
killing journalists inside both the protected groups.
They shouldn't be bombarded or killed at all according to
Geneva international law and all of that.
But they were bombarded and killed.
And the West chooses to fall into the debate of whether they
are affiliated with Hamas or not rather than condemning Israeli
atrocity crimes and the war crimes they have been
committing. So why do you think the West is
choosing to to fall into this trap?
Because Israel is a product of the empire of the Western
Empire, of the British US Empire, and everyone wants to
serve this product. It's the heart of the empire and
this empire like which is compromised by which is made-up
of or sorry, which which constitutes different parties in
different countries like the US and the and in Britain, they
know if Israel is dismantled, then disempower would be
dismantled. So they're trying to support it
with every way they can and they are controlling these cheap sell
outs from politicians and journalists and media works in
the West to regurgitate what they want them to say or they
threaten them. So they threaten them that there
was just could be docked to threaten them that their lives
would be ended would be arrested, whatever.
And people are ready to sell their humanity for a few EUR for
a few pounds. That's for them nothing.
So this is how sequently this is how people think of it, that
Israel is the heart of the empire.
And for one has to know that Israel is the heart of the
empire of the specifically the Britain US empire, and that if
this empire is dismantled and Palestine is a free, then those
empires will collapse. And that's what is making them
afraid. That's why they have been
distinguished allies of Israel, supporting them financially,
militarily and in every way possible to dismantle a group of
fighters are having to authentic seat 40,000 fighters.
You've been fighting them, you've been using the most
developed and modern weaponry in the world from bombs,
quadcopters or planes, tanks and everything, guns and machinery,
whatever, and you haven't achieved anything literally
because you simply cannot beat indigenous and as people to the
land, you simply cannot destroy the belief inside people.
If you want to annihilate a society, you have to obliterate
their beliefs. You have to obliterate their
creed, but but you can't do that.
Everyone believes in this way in Gaza, that our land must be
free, must be liberated. That's the mentality, That's the
mentality. So you need to change the
mentality in whatever you want to achieve.
But that's not going to happen. 100% is not going to happen.
So the reason behind why everyone's following Israel is
because simply Israel is the product of the empire, is the
heart of the empire. If it is dismantled, then this
empire will collapse. And that's what they are afraid
of. And those politicians, leaders,
whatever will absolutely vanish, literally vanish.
So their enemy, their, their, their, their heart is Israel and
their enemy is free Palestine. So they will never humanize any
Palestinians, whatever it takes. And even as I said in their
statement, their Luke warm statements, you will never see
anything that would be a goodwill gesture that will never
happen. And they all agree.
You would see the Labour and the Conservative conflicting having
a clashing with each other here. You would see the Republican
Democratic Party having a clash together, but you would never
see them having a clash over supporting Israel.
That's that can tell you the story.
The whole story is simple that Israel's the heart of empire.
Israel can control everything. Israel is controlling the White
House, the Oval Office, the parliamentary house here in the
UK, and that's how it goes. The empire shouldn't fall.
They must support Israel. It's our heart in the Middle
East. It's our heart of terror, 100%.
They believe it's terror, but they don't want to say it
because of what they have been doing for many, many years,
especially since the genocide started.
So they will never back down from supporting Israel.
They will keep supporting. This argument and this idea
takes us to the same thing that you mentioned already, that the
Western people are already occupied mentally by those
narratives, by the Western narratives of and controlling
them and not leaving them any space to critically thinking of
anything that's happening around them because they're so busy
with their work and all of that. And that's reminds us with new
political party that's getting established here in the UK, it's
called your party as being led by Zara Sultana and also Jeremy
Corbyn. Zara Sultana have recently
tweeted saying and I quote the smears won't work this time.
I see it loudly and proudly. I'm anti Zionists so this might
be a shift for the political sphere here in the UK.
Zara have already said her opinion but Jeremy Corbyn didn't
say it yet. So do you think it's important
for Jeremy Corbyn to stand also as anti Zionist and also for
their for their party, the new party to stand openly and say
that they are anti Zionist and anti genocide for Palestinians
but also. For everyone else, well, I've
known Zara Sultan, Jeremy Corbyn.
I've known them during the genocide, of course, but the
kind of argument that you're bringing up here is that where
they stand? Well, both of them have been
extraordinary support Palestine over the past two, over the past
almost two years. And he has to because anti
Zionism is a humanity. If you're an anti Zionist, if
you're not an anti Zionist, then you're pro overthought, you're
pro genocide. It doesn't make any sense.
If you are like, I'm not going to say I'm an anti Zionist, but
but I'm, I guess genocide, it doesn't make any sense when you
are honest stance, then you'll have to bring everything that
supports this stance. But you cannot just say like,
like I'm against the genocide of Palestinians, but I can't say
I'm an anti stance. So it's very fundamentally
mentally fundamental for him to say this loudly and proudly, as
Sarah said, of course, but also I urged him because I haven't
seen this from them over the course of the past two years.
They haven't said anything about the resistance.
And because they I'm sure they understand the laws.
They know the international laws and large like armed resistance.
It's a legitimate tribe enshrined into the international
laws. If they believe in the in a
demilitarized Palestinian state in their comfort to the solution
because they believe that Palestine should be
demilitarized, but Israel should be militarized, then that
doesn't make any sense for me. And they're the sympathy and
their stances, not just me for science to be honest, but what
they have to focus on is being clearly, obviously, and without
any kind of without any kind of filtered language, they're anti
Zionists. They're against Zionism because
Zionism is the concept of the word, the Holocaust that that is
being perpetrated in Gaza is being perpetrated by the
Zionist. And the final point here is that
if you're not anti Zionist then you're not anti Nazi.
So if they were born or if they left the Holocaust of the Jews
and died by the Nazis, I think one day the question would be
would they be reluctant to say they were or they are anti Nazi?
Could you explain more what is anti Zionism for you as a
Palestinian journalist Youth from inside Raza?
What does it mean and how is it related to anti?
Palestine had always a place for Jews to live in.
Palestine has synagogues for Jews.
We never had a problem with the Jews themselves.
They have our utmost respect. They have, they can live freely.
The problem, the dilemma here is about Zionism and Zionist and
this belief that has been created recently by the Zionist
terrorist groups and fascist groups.
It is the movement that has caused and wrote all this
destruction and, and and wreaked all this havoc in Gaza and in
the West banking across Kiba, Palestine for the past years.
So and designed as a means to be against the genocide, against
the blockade, against apartheid, against all these names, ethnic
cleansing and the expulsion of Palestinians and all these
genocidal ideas that have been circulating around by Israeli
officials. And no one has been challenging
them. No one has been even condemning
their their words. But if a Palestinian leader,
imagine a Palestinian leader, opening up on genocidal rhetoric
against Jews, saying that all Jews must be what must be
exterminated, that would be the news story everywhere, on the
top of every headline, the headline of every newspaper.
But because an Israeli official like Wengerfi, Ms. Modrich, has
been saying this, no one, and has been, they have been even
reiterating that for many, many, many, many times during the past
weeks and during the past months.
But no one has ever condemned them.
And even when the UK tried to prevent those officials from
coming to the UK and put sanctions on them, then the US
and Rubio said that this is a wrong decision and we condemn
the British government to do so. So imagine the level of fascism
the US is under at the moment. It's turned into a fascist,
sadistic country where people cannot even have the least of
the amendments that the US has bought for them.
They cannot have free speech. They cannot have free any, any
free rights at all. So the point about Zionism here
that we need to understand as a result of what we've been
talking about is you must be anti genocide against the
appetite, against the ethnic cleansing, against the suffering
and the blockade. And at the same time, you must
be with free someone's homeland, which has been stolen for for
the past more than 80 years. And you are with them returning
to their own rights. If you have these all then you
are an anti Zionist. An anti Zionism is a humanity is
believing that the indigenous people and the rightful owners
of a specific land, of a specific land, that they have
the full right and authority to get back to their own land and
live freely there enjoying their own lives as you, as any other
human being crossed the globe. So that is what we need from
people. This is the definition of anti
Zionism. Thank you so much.
Abubakar recently published that the BBC have contacted you for
an interview and you had a very strong stance over that.
And you published saying and accusing the BBC of being and I
quote a mouthpiece of Zionism with oceans of the blood of my
people in its hands. O what made you take this
position against but? I've taken it for a long time,
to be honest, Tala. I've taken it for a long time
and I can tell you because I appeared in the BBC in the early
days of the genocide, because I believe that I could have
changed something within the the teams themselves.
I can tell you from here, the producers and the journalists
that I was talking to, they know what they're doing is wrong, but
they are afraid they're occupied.
We go back to the same point. We are occupied and we cannot
shrug off this reality of people being afraid of speaking up
against their own governments and their their media
organizations where they work. And you cannot tell me they're
helpless because if they haven't been so vile and haven't kneeled
down, even if it is one we have. Sangita has originally resigned
from the LBC after challenging or has been fired after
challenging an Israeli official live on her.
And that was for Albacie, very anti-Semitic and that's why they
fired her. But she has been very stale on
her stance and she's been supportive of a palace and she's
been attacking the Israelis for what they have perpetrated
inside Gaza. Now for the other journalism
producers who have no justification of their silence
inside their media organizations, that includes
Glarus Award and CNN, that includes many Jones in the BBC.
And for the BBC, they would say, not publicly, but between them
privately, they would say like we are against what the BBC is
doing. And I can't remember one time I
had a call with one of the BBC producers and they told me
you're right, you're right on everything.
And I said you're a mouthpiece for Zionism.
You are justifying the Holocaust of our people.
You're justifying the killing. And she said literally to me,
you are right. So after trying to change them,
nothing has paid off. They are controlled by Zionists
100 percent, 100%. And the reason why is it this
because I wanted them to feel it.
What's the point of me going live when they're on the BBC
talking to people? A bunch of people have been
given consent for the Israelis to genocide on my people.
What's the reason? What, what am I going to get?
What am I going to get when I do an interview with a bunch of
so-called journalist or have given the Israelis the consent
and justified the killing of the children and the the murder, the
mass murder, dismemberment and disfiguring of Palestinian
children, women, women, even the wiping out and the arranger of
entire communities inside Gaza. This for me is unforgivable,
unforgettable. And that's why I said to them
that I'll raise a case against you.
I will continue doing this until I make sure those people are
tried at a place where they where they will pay for the
crimes they have committed. Because for me, there are a
accomplice to the genocide, to the Holocaust, and they have a
big role in what has been happening and transpiring in
Gaza. And if we have a just law,
because one they have done, we have a literary term called
categoriesis, which means the misuse of the language.
And they haven't misused the language, but they have been
deliberately misusing the language just to serve the
interest of the politicians and of their bosses and just to
dismantle and annihilate a Society of more than one million
children. Therefore, why should I talk to
them? These are the only time you
should talk to them. Must be in a court without held
accountable. Other than that, they are trying
by inviting me and other Palestinians to wash their hands
of their complicity. They are attempting to tell
people, look, we have we are now platforming Palestinians and we
are against the genes or whatever.
But even though there's really human rights are associations
have declared it's a genocide being committed under their
name. And even though all almost all
humanitarian organizations have shared the same feeling and the
same statements the BBC and was the media outlets you would see
them. It's a war in Gaza.
Even worse than that, RTE, which is an Irish media outlet and
Ireland says it's a genocide. The Irish government says it's a
genocide, although all this is an island.
RTE says it's a Israel Hamas war.
That would tell you using these terms and using these phrases is
lethal. It's literally lethal.
And this propaganda, believe me, has killed thousands of people
in Gaza. And if Western journalists, if
Western journalists had done their job in the way, any human
journalist with an atom of moral clarity and humanity, this
genocide would have been ended a long, long, long time ago.
So the blood of my people is on their hands and you must pay for
it. That's why a case against them
must be erased. And we will never rest until
they're held accountable for what they have done for my to my
people. Thank you, that reminds me of
something the western media is always saying.
They always say that we don't know know the truth inside
Russia or what's actually happening or we can't verify
anything because we don't have international journalists
insight. It's not just part of the
dehumanization, but it's also what you've just described.
They are they are part of the propaganda of the genocide.
So why? Why do you think before the
murder of Anas few days before the senior have said that they
will let international journalists in Teresa.
Then they killed this like 6 journalists in one attack.
Why do you think they're doing that while at the same time
advertising for getting international journalists inside
ISA? Like because you mentioned that
the truth is not obvious obvious for western media outlets.
I just want to comment on this to elaborate in this bit more.
The first thing that we have to remind people is that the thing
or the story inside Gaza is not bureaucratic and the intrixes of
it are very simple, which is that we don't even say what.
We've seen a lot of the content, content that has been emerging
outside Gaza from outside, from inside Gaza.
It has been filmed. There is nothing.
It's live. It's a live stream genocide that
has been well documented for the past 22, for the last 22 months.
So why are you talking about? What do you want to verify?
It's a video that you can see. It has not edit.
So we don't edit anything. We just put the video of the
matter of children, women and men and if they wiped out of
entire families in front of you in the bombing of hospitals, we
don't edit anything. Literally, we give you the
footages. We've seen it on the ground and
that's what we have been doing inside Gaza.
So why do you want to verify? I don't think being objective
there is no, there's nothing called objectivity when you see
dismembered, disemboweled and disfigured to children in front
of your eyes. If these so-called journalists
get into Gaza and have a bit of time inside the wards of any
hospital inside Gaza, they would have trauma they would never
recover from and they would say and you can see that and they
prove to what I'm saying is see Doctor Victoria Rose, the
British doctor to Scenic Miniard, the British doctor and
see what they told you. They told you that we can't even
imagine the level of suffering inside the hospitals and the
number of children wandered and be dated.
Consequently, what do you do? What do they want to verify?
The western foreign people have got into Casa who are from their
own people and have literally the same had the same witnesses
to people of compared with to people with to people in Gaza.
Then what are they going to verify?
I can't understand it. Unedited unfiltered footage.
It's live streamed. It's live streamed.
This is the first and many times it happened with journalists,
including me, while we were reporting live in our state
would happen nearby and then we would see children mutilated and
ambulances rushing into the hospital to transport casualties
from the bombed out scenes. The other thing is that we are
saying what we are what we are living through.
Why, why why shouldn't it like do Palestinians?
What is the knee? Think about it like a one year
old brain could tell you this, that why any human being in the
world would go on or would go on live go to like in any interview
live could go live to say that they are suffering.
Do any human beings and doesn't human being in the world love to
be suffering, love to be deprived of food and basic
rights, love to be bumped? Why should we say that?
We should say that's like if we live happily, then we live
happily. Why should we be like
complaining as they say about anything?
Why should we are saying that we're growing from the pain?
We should say anything. So it's a simple equation.
You have an edited out footage. You have our voices, the
Palestinian voices, many of them, many of those are not
generous. They are just witnesses in the
genocide. They have nothing, their
children, most of them. And the third thing is that you
have your own people and you've sent into Gaza and they have
come up literally with the same feelings and sensations that
Palestinians do have, but they don't want to believe any.
And the idea that Israel is now advertising journalist, foreign
journalist to get into Gaza because they have done
everything, They've done everything.
So now after we've done everything, that's what Israel
is saying at the moment. After we've done everything, you
want to get in, get in. We don't care because they were
afraid. We're kind of afraid that those
within journalists, maybe one of them would have conscience,
would have some kind of morals to say what Israel was doing.
And then that would cause some kind of pressure on Israel to
stop annihilating and and and decimating Gaza's every sick
kind of a human sector. And that's what Israel wanted.
But believe me, even if now Israeli, oh sorry, Western
journalist get into Gaza, nothing would have changed.
They would regurgitate the same lies, do it repeat Israel's
propaganda and nothing would literally change in the ground.
And that happened in the Iran, Israel escalations and that
already had happened. The footage they took in Gaza
from the air trope or sorry, the air trope airplanes.
And they just said what we don't know.
I remember very well the Miss Sky News correspondent in Rafa
was who was on an embedded journalism mission inside Rafa.
And he said, look at this neighborhood which is flattened
to the ground. We actually don't know if this
was military necessary or not. What should we expect from them?
Absolutely nothing. Like as I'm telling you those
everyone who has justified long going Israel's Israel Holocaust
must be persecuted. Last month, we've released a
video of you criticizing Egyptian football player Mosaleh
because of his silence over everything that's happening in
Gaza. And since that time, he has
spoken out specifically on after the Israeli killing of the
Palestinian footballers to lay my own bed.
What do you think about that? Is that enough that he spoke
right now? I think it's better than nothing
and he should continue. That's my opinion.
And you can see them part that Salah has made off this tweet
looking about one tweet that has that has reeled them over 112
million viewers, that has gained over 112 million viewers OK
views. And that has kind of brushed
into Weaver to bring 2 Palestinian refugee children
into the final thing with a Super Cup and between Tottenham
and Paris Saint German and even put a banner inside the stadium.
Save the Children stop killing them.
I don't remember the banner exactly.
So this is solace effect. So imagine, sorry, imagine if
Salah had been speaking since this genocide start.
Believe me, I'm not exaggerating, but that might
have been enough to stop the genocide.
But his silence, we cannot like him posting at the moment,
cannot justify and cannot give him an excuses to get away with
over his silence over the past two years.
It was disgraceful. It was unimaginable that he
could do this because look at the love he has inside Gaza.
I remember walking Gaza's suits during the genocide that would
see a photo of masala hung up on one of the walls.
You would see people, loads and loads of people wearing Salas
shirts and Salas shirts, new shirts and new jerseys are being
sold in the markets and on the makeshift stores.
So he has to know that he's very, very much loved in Gaza.
But people are disappointed by him because he hasn't spoken up
for them and he couldn't change. And I'm sure now he he has
realized that he could have changed a lot and he has nothing
to lose. He has achieved literally
everything in the foot. What is one of the best 3
footballers in across the globe? He has won every possible major
trophy for the individual collective trophy.
As a result, what he is, I'm just saying like what is he
afraid of losing? He has nothing to lose and he
can speak up and he can really play and take a very, very big
role in stopping what is happening.
I believe and I hope he will continue.
I hope so too. Look at the big picture of
what's happening in Raza now, the genocide and total
annihilation of people and also Raza as a as a strip.
What do you think? There's really mastery plan now
for Raza and could it be stopped?
I believe, as I told you, after all the images that and the
photos in the videos we've been observing over the course of the
past 1-2 months, I do want from people to stop their
government's, government's complicity and let Israel fight
its own war. That's first.
And I don't want people to believe in our right to
self-defense and legitimate armed resistance.
And that's the way how it can be stopped.
We need a military intervention to stop it.
And the Irish president, I've got his name, he's talked about
it, that we need a military intervention to stop it, to stop
the genocide and to intervene to secure safe humanitarian
corridors, to truck aid into Gaza and to the needy people, to
the very desperate people right now.
Because the scale, the false Pictron blockade has resulted in
an unbelievable scale of deprivation and and desperation.
To solve that, you need a military intervention.
Because unfortunately all the kind of political intervention,
the mere facade and platitudes that we've seen haven't paid
off. And that is really the only way
to stop it is power. If governments believe in human
beings, in the humans rights and basic rights, they should
literally and unequivocally intervene militarily to help
those need and to save their own humanity by intervening
militarily to stop Israel from starving an entire population,
half of which are children who have nothing to do with animals,
and many, many thousands of children.
Those children have been born prior to the genocide, a few
weeks and months prior to the genocide, and the rest have been
during the genocide and have lived here last year in the
genocide. Imagine a three-year old child,
2 year old child is 2 year old is 2 years old, but he's left it
all during the genocide. That is for me, inconceivable,
insurmountable, impenetrable, something that I can't really
put into words that this is the failure of the Internet, of the
human world. There is no humanity in this
world except for a few people who wanted to dream to do
something, but they're not allowed to do this thing because
the governments are are tyrannies.
That's how it is. But military intervention is
needed now more than ever before, and that would a
pressure and stop Israel from continuing with its Holocaust.
Thank you so much, Abu Baker, for being with us.
And I hope that the people would listen to you and they will be
able to push their governments an end for the genocide and also
for the Israeli occupation, because as long as the
occupation continues, colonization continue, the
genocides will be happening more and more.
So thank you for being with us. You're a witness of the
genocide. You're 1 of 2 million people in
Gaza have witnessed that. It's very important to
understand what you said, the dehumanization of men, and also
all the Israeli tactics to measure the Palestinians and get
excuses out of that so we can actually be able to mobilize and
stand in action and solidarity with the Palestinians until
Palestine is free. Thank you so much, Abu Baker,
lovely meeting you. Thank you.
Thank you so much, Diamond Smile.
If you are enjoying this podcast and if you enjoy listening to
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