1 00:00:05,700 --> 00:00:09,600 Calvary Church, presents lead to serve a leadership podcast with 2 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,300 Ed Taylor. Hey, welcome again. 3 00:00:12,300 --> 00:00:16,300 To another episode of the lead to serve podcast, we are 4 00:00:16,300 --> 00:00:21,200 actually in season number, for my name is Ed Taylor. 5 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,300 I'm the pastor here at Calvary Church in Aurora, been here 6 00:00:24,300 --> 00:00:28,900 since 1999 Aurora is in Colorado. 7 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,200 We're Grateful to serve the community here, all throughout 8 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,700 the, what they call the Denver metro area, but then beyond the 9 00:00:36,700 --> 00:00:39,100 walls of the church and Beyond the state. 10 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,200 And part of that, is this podcast where we talk about 11 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:44,300 Ministry together, we talk about. 12 00:00:44,300 --> 00:00:49,900 What's right now, I guess season for we've been discussing topics 13 00:00:49,900 --> 00:00:54,100 but under the banner of the post pandemic type environment. 14 00:00:54,300 --> 00:00:57,500 Last time, we talked about leading with a limp and I hope 15 00:00:57,500 --> 00:01:03,000 that was helpful for you because The reality of of serving and 16 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:08,400 leading is that we all have a limp but that limp is a, is 17 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,700 really a place where God uses really a tool that God uses to 18 00:01:12,700 --> 00:01:17,400 form us and fashion us to develop our character to remind 19 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:22,600 us of our true identity. That every time that pain is 20 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,700 pricked or that memory is brought back at reminds us of 21 00:01:25,700 --> 00:01:29,400 who we are in Christ. The work that he's doing us, not 22 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,300 just The work but the transformative work is where 23 00:01:32,300 --> 00:01:36,800 conformed into the very image of Christ. 24 00:01:36,900 --> 00:01:41,500 And as we have on previous episodes with me, I would say in 25 00:01:41,500 --> 00:01:45,500 studio, but he's not in studio because he's up in the Northern 26 00:01:45,500 --> 00:01:49,000 Colorado, serving a church with pointman Ministries. 27 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,200 But Pastor Bob Clay Camp is on the phone with me. 28 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:55,700 Welcome again. Bob, it's great to be with you 29 00:01:55,700 --> 00:01:57,500 again. Is there still snow on the 30 00:01:57,500 --> 00:01:59,600 ground around you Bob? Just on the North? 31 00:01:59,700 --> 00:02:04,700 Side of houses and told me that I wasn't supposed to buy a house 32 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,199 that pays North, because you can never get rid of the snow. 33 00:02:08,199 --> 00:02:10,699 Until May, how many times do you wake up in the morning? 34 00:02:10,699 --> 00:02:13,400 Bob, and say, you know, we're not in Arizona anymore. 35 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,200 Oh yeah. Oh yeah. 35 years in Arizona. 36 00:02:16,300 --> 00:02:18,000 Not so much. No Downtown Phoenix. 37 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:24,900 Well, today's topic with Bob is serving and supporting your 38 00:02:24,900 --> 00:02:29,400 pastors and leaders or the emphasis on a word that we 39 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,100 value. You around here, and that's 40 00:02:31,100 --> 00:02:35,400 like-mindedness. How important it is to serve 41 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,900 with like-mindedness. And we call this the lead to 42 00:02:38,900 --> 00:02:43,900 serve podcast because they're intertwined Jesus called us to 43 00:02:43,900 --> 00:02:48,000 be great servants. He himself is the example, Mark 44 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,900 chapter 10 and verse 45. He came not to be served but to 45 00:02:51,900 --> 00:02:55,700 serve and give his life a ransom for others. 46 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,000 And at the same time in our service were also leading by 47 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,900 example. Well, we might be an Overseer in 48 00:03:01,900 --> 00:03:04,300 church. We might lead a small group, a 49 00:03:04,300 --> 00:03:09,700 pastor, an elder, maybe you have a place of leadership at work 50 00:03:10,100 --> 00:03:14,200 supervisor, but it doesn't matter if it's any place that 51 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:18,000 you have is a position of leadership from the, from the 52 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:22,700 posture of servanthood, as a mom or dad at home, even as a kid. 53 00:03:22,700 --> 00:03:24,400 Oh, you know, submitting to Mom and Dad. 54 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,000 That's a position of servanthood, which also is a 55 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:32,400 position of leadership now. Is a truth Bob then, I think in 56 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:37,800 our modern day culture is hard for some to grasp and it's this 57 00:03:38,300 --> 00:03:43,400 God has appointed spiritual leadership in the local 58 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,000 congregation. What do you thoughts about that? 59 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,000 That's right. It's clear in the word 60 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,200 especially in the New Testament as we're looking at. 61 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:56,700 Since the book of Acts started, you've got leaders baptized with 62 00:03:56,700 --> 00:03:59,300 the Holy Spirit drawing upon the spirits. 63 00:03:59,700 --> 00:04:05,400 Lead and anointing. And there are times when leaders 64 00:04:05,900 --> 00:04:08,600 make wrong decisions. I mean, when Peter went up to 65 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:12,100 Antioch and the whole thing happened, as Paul wrote about 66 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,900 Paul had to confront Peter, even though Peter was one of the 67 00:04:16,100 --> 00:04:23,900 first 12 Apostles. And but he was had this group 68 00:04:23,900 --> 00:04:29,000 duplicity of affecting others by his choice. 69 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,800 That wasn't By the spirit but was confusing. 70 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:37,200 And, and contrary to the grace of God on the Gentiles, the 71 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:41,600 appointment of spiritual leadership is and, you know, you 72 00:04:41,700 --> 00:04:45,500 you said something that took me off track and I think we'll just 73 00:04:45,500 --> 00:04:48,200 skip to it, right away, right at the beginning. 74 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:52,200 I think it's it's a it's very good for us to talk about 75 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:54,400 spiritual leaders will make mistakes. 76 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,000 Why do you think, yes? Why do you think that there's an 77 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:02,400 expectation or Maybe they have some thoughts on why there is 78 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:06,000 such a great expectation that leaders won't make mistakes and 79 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:10,100 that it's so shocking to people. When we do well, I think some of 80 00:05:10,100 --> 00:05:16,600 it is we want heroes in our life and and we put expectations 81 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:22,200 because if I link myself with a hero then I'm empowered in that 82 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:28,600 same way and suddenly it's partly our fault. 83 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,900 Bye. Putting unrealistic expectations 84 00:05:31,900 --> 00:05:35,600 upon leaders. Taking a Truth where I'm just 85 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:40,100 submit myself to those over you in the Lord, for the sake, of 86 00:05:40,100 --> 00:05:44,200 accountability, and all. But Paul says follow me as I 87 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:51,500 follow Christ and so that that reality that God has ordained 88 00:05:52,300 --> 00:06:01,100 leadership and for the sake of Accountability for the sake of, 89 00:06:02,700 --> 00:06:06,300 making sure everything is taken care of order. 90 00:06:06,300 --> 00:06:10,900 But yet it's still, you know, it's sheep following sheets. 91 00:06:10,900 --> 00:06:14,200 Really, we're under Shepherds, but we're all sheep. 92 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:18,400 And so there's going to be, there's going to be times when 93 00:06:19,700 --> 00:06:24,300 you may not agree with the method that that leader puts in 94 00:06:24,300 --> 00:06:27,000 place. It's not a doctrinal issue. 95 00:06:27,100 --> 00:06:31,500 It's a method issue and so it's against your method and your and 96 00:06:31,500 --> 00:06:35,900 you have elevated your method to be the one that is Anointed even 97 00:06:35,900 --> 00:06:40,600 by the Apostle Paul or something because he spoke King James, I 98 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:46,200 mean, there's all kinds of stupid ideas but but you know, 99 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:51,500 at the end of the day, There's so many different ways something 100 00:06:51,500 --> 00:06:52,800 can be carried out. Yeah. 101 00:06:53,300 --> 00:06:57,600 And so if God has put you under a leader, an elder, a pastor 102 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,100 then serve, and just follow the method. 103 00:07:01,100 --> 00:07:06,300 Unless the method leads you into sin and then then you've got to 104 00:07:06,300 --> 00:07:08,900 make an appeal and try to reason. 105 00:07:09,300 --> 00:07:12,700 But at the end of the day, you need to follow God, rather than 106 00:07:12,700 --> 00:07:16,500 man but still it doesn't throw out the whole thing of 107 00:07:16,500 --> 00:07:20,800 submitting to leaders. Even though, They're weak 108 00:07:20,900 --> 00:07:23,400 because they're not Jesus, it's sheep. 109 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,300 Bleating sheep. I like that phrase, without, 110 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:29,300 that's the important concept of understanding that we have roles 111 00:07:29,300 --> 00:07:32,100 and responsibilities that are different. 112 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,900 Some have more responsibility than others, which would be that 113 00:07:35,900 --> 00:07:39,400 God appointed leadership. However, were sheep. 114 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,400 Following sheep were sheep serving with sheep. 115 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:46,600 There's an equality Among Us that we all stand equal at the 116 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,300 Cross of Christ, the difference with us. 117 00:07:49,500 --> 00:07:51,700 This is the authority that we might be. 118 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:55,500 We might have been given by God or the position that we might 119 00:07:55,500 --> 00:07:58,800 have been given by God, I think of I think of the term Elder 120 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,100 that's used in Scripture that we used synonymously with Pastor. 121 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,300 You know, Paul would tell Timothy that Elders rule, well, 122 00:08:05,300 --> 00:08:07,200 they should be counted worthy of double honor. 123 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:12,200 Peter said it in First Peter five submit yourself to your 124 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:13,500 elders. So, there's a place of 125 00:08:13,500 --> 00:08:17,000 leadership and then a place of submission, I think the author 126 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,300 to Hebrews was Paul at even though that's debatable. 127 00:08:19,300 --> 00:08:21,600 But Even in Hebrews. Remember this is a heavy one. 128 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,700 Many people do not like this statement, but in Hebrews 13 129 00:08:25,700 --> 00:08:29,400 verse 17. It says obey those who rule over 130 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:33,000 you and be submissive these are keys. 131 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:39,400 This this is important as we're we're serving in a culture like 132 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,600 it's never been before at least for Our Generation post. 133 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:46,900 Pandemic issues the divisiveness that still exist that we need to 134 00:08:46,908 --> 00:08:49,300 keep at the Forefront of our serving that work. 135 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:51,400 Code laboring together. Work. 136 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,700 Oh, laboring together. Yeah, we all have a place and, 137 00:08:54,700 --> 00:08:58,300 and words like partnership teamwork. 138 00:08:58,900 --> 00:09:02,600 Collaborating, which is really col, a boring, but collaborating 139 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,400 in serving together. And again, I think most of this 140 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:08,400 conversation will be in the context of the church. 141 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:16,300 But the reality is, is that we must share in like-mindedness as 142 00:09:16,300 --> 00:09:18,300 sheep. Following sheep sheep serving 143 00:09:18,300 --> 00:09:20,600 with sheep. Otherwise, the enemy will take 144 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,700 advantage, there will be chaos, they'll be confusion, they'll be 145 00:09:23,700 --> 00:09:29,700 division will be clamoring for power and things that just God 146 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:34,000 doesn't bless if we would learn to do the things God, blesses, 147 00:09:34,300 --> 00:09:38,800 the following the pattern of Jesus and avoid and even 148 00:09:39,300 --> 00:09:41,800 condemned the things that God doesn't bless. 149 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,700 I think we'd see a lot more progress in in the church. 150 00:09:45,700 --> 00:09:49,100 So with that, tell me what you think before I give the biblical 151 00:09:49,100 --> 00:09:51,000 day. Venetian of like, - what comes 152 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:55,300 to mind when you hear the word like-minded, actually what comes 153 00:09:55,300 --> 00:10:01,300 to mind is a troop in the armed forces where you've got. 154 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:07,100 You've got a mission and everybody on the team has each 155 00:10:07,100 --> 00:10:10,700 other's back. It's like you have my six, it's 156 00:10:10,700 --> 00:10:14,900 a big statement and without that it was going to be friendly 157 00:10:14,900 --> 00:10:17,500 fire. I mean, you're going to shoot, 158 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:19,100 you're going to shoot your wounded. 159 00:10:20,300 --> 00:10:25,300 You've got to trust the Lord that he has put that structure 160 00:10:25,300 --> 00:10:29,100 in place and the Holy Spirit wants to use that structure. 161 00:10:29,700 --> 00:10:34,000 Unless the leader goes in a way that sinful against God, that 162 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:40,200 there's blatant sin that they're wanting you to carry out and 163 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,800 that that's a whole nother issue, but you just can't make 164 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,900 that your name thing. You've got to understand that 165 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,300 that God is working with you as a team. 166 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:55,000 Team and that team concept has to be continued and even though 167 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:58,200 like we mentioned earlier, the method might be different than 168 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,200 you would do it. Just trust the Lord, unless the 169 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,100 Lord builds the house, they labor in vain who build it. 170 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:08,800 And so, just let the Lord, you know, use you as a team, be 171 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,900 like-minded and say, you know what, let's just see what the 172 00:11:11,900 --> 00:11:14,700 Lord will do. Kind of a Minds me of Jonathan's 173 00:11:14,700 --> 00:11:17,300 armor bear when Jonathan wanted to go up in the hill. 174 00:11:17,300 --> 00:11:23,400 And and just You know defeat the enemy in a method that's all 175 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,300 wouldn't abused. I love the team picture. 176 00:11:26,300 --> 00:11:29,400 I will use baseball as the example because that's my 177 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:31,700 favorite sport. Everyone has a place on the 178 00:11:31,700 --> 00:11:34,400 field. Everyone has a responsibility, 179 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,000 each and individual, but collaboratively there the team, 180 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,300 nobody wins a game in baseball alone. 181 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:45,800 No one hit, no one catch. No one pitch, no one managerial 182 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:49,300 decision wins the game. It's a, it's a compilation. 183 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:53,600 Ocean of all of that throughout the game in response even to 184 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,500 what's happening on the other side of the, the, the opponent, 185 00:11:56,500 --> 00:11:58,400 you know, what happens to what the opponent does. 186 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:05,500 But no one person wins everyone works together but if you don't, 187 00:12:05,500 --> 00:12:09,200 if you don't fulfill the role that you have that and you want 188 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:11,900 to be another role, let's say you're the catcher. 189 00:12:11,900 --> 00:12:14,300 But you want to be the pitcher and you run to the mound. 190 00:12:14,300 --> 00:12:16,600 Now you have two pictures who's going to catch and who's going 191 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:18,500 to hold. There's only one ball and 192 00:12:18,500 --> 00:12:22,100 there's a general. Rules that we follow, we're 193 00:12:22,100 --> 00:12:24,100 playing the game, baseball not football. 194 00:12:24,100 --> 00:12:26,700 So, there's the right equipment. I mean, it's a beautiful, I 195 00:12:26,708 --> 00:12:30,100 guess you could do a whole bible study on that, but I want to get 196 00:12:30,100 --> 00:12:34,600 into the biblical example. I just taught on this recently 197 00:12:35,100 --> 00:12:37,900 here at the church. It's part of our servants class. 198 00:12:37,900 --> 00:12:41,100 It's actually a chapter in one of the books that I wrote as 199 00:12:41,100 --> 00:12:45,700 well called Ordinary Servant learning how to support like and 200 00:12:45,700 --> 00:12:49,400 the value that we have here in like - it's very important, Hunt 201 00:12:49,408 --> 00:12:53,100 for us like - the Greek. It comes to us from treat two, 202 00:12:53,100 --> 00:12:55,400 Greek words, meaning equal, and soul. 203 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:59,600 And you have the picture of unity Harmony and agreement 204 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:03,800 activated by the same motives to have similar character. 205 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:08,800 Jesus valued this, as he spent three years pouring in to the 206 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:10,400 men and women around him. Paul. 207 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,100 Absolutely valued this, as he poured in 2, Timothy and Titus 208 00:13:13,100 --> 00:13:17,900 and all those Peter valued it. It's a, it's an eternal 209 00:13:17,900 --> 00:13:19,800 principle. It's a new and Covenant 210 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:21,400 principle. Because God is the same 211 00:13:21,700 --> 00:13:25,500 yesterday today and forever. However, in our culture 212 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:32,200 like-mindedness is not valued very highly because I think it's 213 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:36,900 either a misinterpreted or be it's misused. 214 00:13:37,100 --> 00:13:42,500 And the way it's misused is that leaders have a heavy hand and 215 00:13:42,500 --> 00:13:49,200 force Conformity on people forced them to to do this or to 216 00:13:49,300 --> 00:13:54,700 Be this or tooth, even think this sign - and they call that 217 00:13:54,700 --> 00:13:56,400 like-mindedness. Because if I can get you to 218 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:00,300 agree, if I can get you to agree with me, then that's 219 00:14:00,300 --> 00:14:03,500 like-mindedness. But that's not like - at all. 220 00:14:03,500 --> 00:14:07,300 Like - is fostered in the environment of Freedom. 221 00:14:07,700 --> 00:14:11,600 It is a work of the holy spirit. It's something that that Paul 222 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:16,000 would tell the Ephesians that were to strive to maintain the 223 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:20,000 unity of the spirit in the bond of Peace. 224 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,900 It's not something you can make up your either. 225 00:14:23,100 --> 00:14:26,400 It's kind of like, it's kind of like being tall. 226 00:14:26,700 --> 00:14:29,800 You either are or you're not, you can't make it up. 227 00:14:30,700 --> 00:14:33,600 If you're tall, you are, if you're not, you're not. 228 00:14:33,700 --> 00:14:38,000 And if like my Nana's, you either are or you're not and 229 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:42,400 like my Nana's met and in not in a list of rules and regulations 230 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:46,400 to follow, but in a mutual admiration of Jesus, a 231 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,700 submission to the Holy Spirit and recognized Using. 232 00:14:49,700 --> 00:14:52,200 So, if you bring it down, there's a practical piece to 233 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,800 that. And that is recognizing the god 234 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:59,300 ordained roles that he has given to us in the church and 235 00:14:59,300 --> 00:15:03,700 operating in those roles in the spirit, in a spirit of love. 236 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,800 Yes, you know, there's a difference between 237 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:11,200 like-mindedness based in Freedom, and Grace, and 238 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:16,900 like-mindedness, based in fear and intimidation, and there are 239 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:22,600 like even in a family of five. They're can put his family in 240 00:15:22,700 --> 00:15:27,100 order because he threatens them if they get out of order and 241 00:15:27,100 --> 00:15:31,700 it's fear and intimidation and so outwardly, it looks like it's 242 00:15:31,700 --> 00:15:36,400 like minded but inwardly there's no relationship that's really 243 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,500 been fostered. But actually an unhealthy fear 244 00:15:39,500 --> 00:15:43,200 and intimidation which carries over to other authority figures 245 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:49,200 as the child gets older and it's abusive when when you rule by 246 00:15:49,300 --> 00:15:52,900 Intimidation and fear. And so it's not merely the 247 00:15:52,900 --> 00:15:57,400 outward like-mindedness but it's the like-mindedness of Soul. 248 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:02,000 Like you had pointed out where you, you say, you know what, I'm 249 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:06,200 I'm, I'm like-minded with the Lord, and I'm going with his 250 00:16:06,500 --> 00:16:10,600 order with his counsel with his instruction. 251 00:16:11,100 --> 00:16:13,500 And I'm going to do it from the heart. 252 00:16:13,500 --> 00:16:16,700 And not just because I'm afraid that if I step out of line, he's 253 00:16:16,700 --> 00:16:21,300 going to whack me if your fear is The wrong motivation, the 254 00:16:21,300 --> 00:16:24,500 fear of man as the wrong motivation both to be moved by. 255 00:16:24,500 --> 00:16:30,300 And to use I was looking up the word intimidation and it says to 256 00:16:30,300 --> 00:16:37,300 frighten an overall someone awwe to frighten and overall 257 00:16:37,300 --> 00:16:42,200 especially in order to make them do what one wants. 258 00:16:42,300 --> 00:16:48,400 Wow, and that making is not like - like - means that we generally 259 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,600 agree about the Same thing. It doesn't imply that we agree 260 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,700 about everything or we see everything. 261 00:16:53,700 --> 00:16:56,700 I die, that's impossible. There isn't anyone on the 262 00:16:56,700 --> 00:16:58,400 planet? Sometimes, we even disagree with 263 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,400 ourselves, and how do we know that? 264 00:17:00,700 --> 00:17:04,300 Because we change our minds like, like, sometimes we don't 265 00:17:04,300 --> 00:17:08,400 even 100% agree with ourselves as we're growing and maturing 266 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,500 but serving together. I mean, the place of a servant 267 00:17:11,500 --> 00:17:12,700 doesn't. There's no fear and 268 00:17:12,700 --> 00:17:16,500 intimidation. There's Unity Harmony agreement 269 00:17:16,500 --> 00:17:21,700 and submission. Mission is a hard word but 270 00:17:21,700 --> 00:17:25,500 submission is required to maintain Unity especially when 271 00:17:25,500 --> 00:17:29,500 we don't see something, right? I we don't choose to fight under 272 00:17:29,500 --> 00:17:34,100 mine too. You know, somehow push our own 273 00:17:34,100 --> 00:17:38,900 agenda but rather to learn to submit and surrender ourselves 274 00:17:38,900 --> 00:17:43,200 to the Lord, and then the Bible teaches that Mutual submission 275 00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:45,000 Among Us. It's so beautiful. 276 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:49,100 So let's go with that. In mind to a familiar Passage. 277 00:17:49,300 --> 00:17:54,900 Zh in Exodus chapter 17 where they're attacked by the 278 00:17:54,900 --> 00:17:59,200 amalekites and things happen. Very, very rapidly here and let 279 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,000 me just say, for the sake of those that might be listening in 280 00:18:02,300 --> 00:18:06,000 that have a Calvary Chapel background, that that's the 281 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,200 family of churches were from the. 282 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:14,000 This sense of Moses model of leadership has been used as a 283 00:18:14,900 --> 00:18:21,600 weapon against many Pastor LED And when you hear the word Moses 284 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,400 motto, it's almost always a caricature of this passage of 285 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,300 scripture or the thought process that Pastor Chuck taught us now. 286 00:18:29,300 --> 00:18:32,500 He to be fair. He used the phrase Moses model 287 00:18:33,100 --> 00:18:37,300 and so now it's been co-opted and used against it but the true 288 00:18:37,500 --> 00:18:42,700 and this is my position that leadership can be misused and 289 00:18:42,700 --> 00:18:48,400 mishandled Moses, you know, using Moses as a example or 290 00:18:48,500 --> 00:18:52,000 Paul. Or Titus or Jesus or any other 291 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,100 senior leader that God has chosen throughout all of 292 00:18:55,100 --> 00:18:58,900 scriptures, misusing and leading in the flesh. 293 00:18:58,900 --> 00:19:00,500 At the, I don't doesn't matter what model it is. 294 00:19:00,500 --> 00:19:04,800 It's not the model of God. And, and because we're appealing 295 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:08,700 to Moses is not because what you can't come to and go, well, you 296 00:19:08,700 --> 00:19:12,600 know, this is an old Covenant example, what you can say that. 297 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,700 But at the same time, it is a universal. 298 00:19:15,700 --> 00:19:17,700 God is the same yesterday today and forever. 299 00:19:17,700 --> 00:19:22,700 So there's a universality This that we can draw out and let me 300 00:19:22,700 --> 00:19:25,900 be clear, whatever model of leadership is being used in your 301 00:19:25,900 --> 00:19:30,200 life, in your church, and buy you, it is never okay to hurt 302 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:31,200 people. It's never okay. 303 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:35,200 To abuse people. It's never okay, to say, I'm the 304 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:39,500 only one I'm as, as one person once said, and I'm sure you've 305 00:19:39,500 --> 00:19:43,700 heard this, it is never okay. In the church to have leadership 306 00:19:43,700 --> 00:19:47,500 that's perceived or even called this guy said this publicly 307 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,700 from, at a, at a conference, Hence from the microphone. 308 00:19:50,700 --> 00:19:53,300 That was recorded. It's probably somewhere on a 309 00:19:53,300 --> 00:19:57,200 recording but this pastor called his church, a benevolent 310 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:01,500 dictatorship. That's not biblical. 311 00:20:01,500 --> 00:20:05,400 Yeah, I don't care if a pastor taught it, it's not biblical. 312 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:10,000 It's the antithesis of servant leadership, but we've got about 313 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,000 we've got a few minutes left. In Exodus 17, I want to address 314 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,200 this because we see all these ingredients there. 315 00:20:17,700 --> 00:20:20,700 It's a seminal moment. In the leadership of Moses, 316 00:20:20,900 --> 00:20:24,100 there are attacked For the First Time The amalekites come against 317 00:20:24,100 --> 00:20:27,900 them. And in verse 8, he responds this 318 00:20:27,900 --> 00:20:32,000 is Exodus 17 Moses just said, hey Joshua go get some men and 319 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,600 fight and tomorrow I'm going to go up to the top of the hill. 320 00:20:36,500 --> 00:20:39,200 And so what you see is God had a word. 321 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:44,800 He gave it to Moses, Moses gave it to Joshua and Moses gave 322 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,200 Direction and he said Joshua gets some men go fight. 323 00:20:48,300 --> 00:20:50,700 I'm going up to To the top of the hill. 324 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:56,100 And here's leadership with a test for Joshua to submit and we 325 00:20:56,100 --> 00:20:57,900 can think of a lot of different responses. 326 00:20:57,900 --> 00:21:00,900 Joshua could have here. He could say, what do you mean 327 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,200 you're going to go up to the High Country in the safe place 328 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,100 and you're sending me down? Why don't you just come with me 329 00:21:06,100 --> 00:21:08,200 Moses? Why don't you go fight? 330 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:12,700 And I'll go up to the hill and I don't know about you Bob, but I 331 00:21:12,700 --> 00:21:15,700 have heard that mine. I mean, I've actually felt that 332 00:21:15,700 --> 00:21:19,000 way at times. So let's be honest in that. 333 00:21:19,300 --> 00:21:22,700 But I've also heard it a lot where, you know, Moses doesn't 334 00:21:22,700 --> 00:21:25,800 give have time to explain anything, he doesn't have time, 335 00:21:26,500 --> 00:21:28,800 we don't know the whole conversation that's not reserved 336 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,800 for us, but we do know what's been said and what's said is 337 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,900 very quick, go do this and I'm going to do that and and they're 338 00:21:34,900 --> 00:21:39,700 very opposite things and the only, the only acceptable 339 00:21:39,700 --> 00:21:43,900 response is verse 10. Joshua did, as Moses said to him 340 00:21:43,900 --> 00:21:46,600 and over that in your Bibles. You could write submission. 341 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:48,400 He did. Yeah. 342 00:21:48,500 --> 00:21:51,200 What he was told. Told to do, Moses told him to do 343 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:55,300 something and he did it. So it reminded me Bob and maybe 344 00:21:55,300 --> 00:21:58,600 you can comment on this. I shared with the church in. 345 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,500 This is an our servants class as well as share with the church. 346 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:06,400 Is that it's a very important as you serve God in the context of 347 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:10,900 teamwork and like-mindedness that you do, what you're asked 348 00:22:10,900 --> 00:22:16,200 to do and then secondly that you do what you're asked to do the 349 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:20,200 way you are asked to do it. Have any thoughts on that? 350 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,700 Well yeah, unless unless your leader says, you know, take care 351 00:22:24,700 --> 00:22:27,600 of this in the best way you can that's one thing. 352 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,700 But if he says, I want you to, I want you to take care of this 353 00:22:31,700 --> 00:22:33,600 and I want you to take these three steps. 354 00:22:34,500 --> 00:22:37,500 The problem that comes to mind is confidence and an Unfaithful 355 00:22:37,500 --> 00:22:41,000 man is like a broken tooth or a foot out of joint. 356 00:22:41,300 --> 00:22:47,800 So, you know, the leader wants to accomplish something and 357 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,800 maybe there's a particular Methadone his heart, for other 358 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:55,300 reasons beside the particular method because of maybe it's a 359 00:22:55,308 --> 00:22:57,300 word of knowledge. Maybe it's something that has to 360 00:22:57,300 --> 00:22:59,600 be addressed. That's going to happen during 361 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,400 those three steps of that particular method. 362 00:23:02,500 --> 00:23:06,300 And so, you just have to get the trust the Lord that, if the 363 00:23:06,300 --> 00:23:08,800 leaders given you, okay, I want you to deal with this, and I 364 00:23:08,808 --> 00:23:11,800 want you to take step one, step two, step two, step three in 365 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,300 this order, then then do it, even though you got, hey, I've 366 00:23:15,300 --> 00:23:17,200 got a great idea. I don't care what he said. 367 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,500 I think this is of the Lord and almost You're kind of 368 00:23:20,500 --> 00:23:23,800 undermining the overall plan of God that he wants to do. 369 00:23:23,900 --> 00:23:28,400 Yes. I think the reality of being 370 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,100 able to say most of the time when you're challenged in 371 00:23:32,100 --> 00:23:34,500 like-mindedness, the best, if it's not sense. 372 00:23:34,500 --> 00:23:38,300 So let's be clear. Anytime there's abusive 373 00:23:38,300 --> 00:23:41,400 leadership. Do not submit to it, anytime 374 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,500 they're sinful leadership. You're under no obligation to be 375 00:23:44,500 --> 00:23:47,700 in a place of abuse and hurt. So, let's be clear about that. 376 00:23:47,900 --> 00:23:52,500 Neither are you under? Any obligation whatsoever, 0 0 - 377 00:23:52,500 --> 00:23:55,400 0 whatever. We however I can emphasize this 378 00:23:55,500 --> 00:23:58,900 that if the direction is to do something sinful, the answer is 379 00:23:58,900 --> 00:24:01,300 always No period. Yeah. 380 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,100 Something compromising always know. 381 00:24:03,100 --> 00:24:06,000 So I think I made some assumptions in stating this 382 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,800 right from the get-go but there's no don't sit under any. 383 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,400 You're not you can't be like-minded in the Lord with bad 384 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,000 leadership or sinful leadership. So, let's clear that up. 385 00:24:16,300 --> 00:24:18,700 But generally with that exception, I think there's 386 00:24:18,700 --> 00:24:22,300 probably Other exceptions. If you're not given a lot, if 387 00:24:22,300 --> 00:24:25,600 you're given Direction like this, all I need you to get some 388 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,500 men and go fight, then the only natural response from Joshua's 389 00:24:29,500 --> 00:24:33,700 to go get some men and fight. And I think that although life 390 00:24:33,700 --> 00:24:36,900 and death is not what we're dealing with daily. 391 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,700 What we are dealing with daily is the spiritual life and death 392 00:24:39,700 --> 00:24:44,700 of people's lives, and the best response in serving generally 393 00:24:44,700 --> 00:24:46,700 within one. Another where you, whether 394 00:24:46,700 --> 00:24:48,700 you're at work and your supervisor tells you to do 395 00:24:48,700 --> 00:24:50,900 something. NG the right response is not to 396 00:24:50,900 --> 00:24:52,700 cop an attitude, it's just to do it. 397 00:24:52,700 --> 00:24:55,100 That's why you're there just submit to it but you don't 398 00:24:55,100 --> 00:24:57,100 understand. And I'm doing everybody's work 399 00:24:57,300 --> 00:24:59,800 right now. That's God's will for your life. 400 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,800 Do the best that you can with what you have and don't cop an 401 00:25:03,808 --> 00:25:06,800 attitude. It's not helpful in being used 402 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,800 of God, but since we're running out of time, let me go through 403 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,200 quickly here. Another thing I see in this 404 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,200 about like-mindedness, that we don't even see how it was 405 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,200 developed. But but but Moses goes up to the 406 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:22,100 hill, his Hands are up. It's obvious that when his hands 407 00:25:22,100 --> 00:25:23,900 are up, it says Israel prevailed. 408 00:25:23,900 --> 00:25:26,300 When his hands went down, amalek prevailed. 409 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,000 And then it says in verse 12, Moses hands, became heavy or 410 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:35,500 tired and then the very next thing is they Aaron and Hur took 411 00:25:35,500 --> 00:25:39,800 a stone put it under him Sat on it Aaron and Hur supported his 412 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,700 hands. One on the other side and there 413 00:25:41,700 --> 00:25:45,700 was Victory and one of the things I pulled I pulled out for 414 00:25:45,700 --> 00:25:49,200 our congregation was this that one of the best tools that You 415 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,500 and I have in serving is the the tool of observation. 416 00:25:54,500 --> 00:25:56,500 When you see something you can do something. 417 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,500 Yeah. If you don't pay attention, then 418 00:25:59,500 --> 00:26:01,900 you won't see things. And when you don't see things, 419 00:26:02,100 --> 00:26:05,700 you will do, far less for the kingdom, the more you see, just 420 00:26:05,700 --> 00:26:08,700 like Bible study, isn't it? The more you observe, the 421 00:26:08,700 --> 00:26:13,600 better, you will the faster in the more unique and the better, 422 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,700 you'll come to the conclusion, that one specific 423 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,000 interpretation, that God has. So you have The applications 424 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:25,500 like observations key so somehow they see this, they're watching 425 00:26:25,500 --> 00:26:28,100 it happen. They're attentive to Moses. 426 00:26:28,500 --> 00:26:31,800 Like we learn with diakon has to wait on tables. 427 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,700 There are ten paying attention. They see this. 428 00:26:35,100 --> 00:26:38,800 They take care of it. Without being asked, they have 429 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,500 such a caring concern. They don't say, give me the rod. 430 00:26:41,500 --> 00:26:45,400 Now, I'm much younger than you, Moses or thousand different 431 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,600 things. They see it. 432 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,600 They sit him down. And again, we use this this 433 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,000 picture we, if he's sitting on, in his arms are up. 434 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,500 I don't think they grabbed him by the wrist to keep his arms 435 00:26:57,500 --> 00:26:59,700 up. I think they took the position 436 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:04,500 even lower than that to get right up under his arm with some 437 00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:08,600 leverage right up in his armpit. Really, we call this the armpit 438 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,500 Ministry. We get right up in his armpits 439 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,700 and kept his arms up. And and by the way, his armpits 440 00:27:14,700 --> 00:27:18,000 would have been really bad because there's no showers same 441 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,100 robe, Dusty desert. And really bad and and 442 00:27:22,100 --> 00:27:24,000 like-mindedness would say, you know what? 443 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,300 I'm here to do whatever's needed to me, I want to make, I want to 444 00:27:27,300 --> 00:27:31,200 serve Moses, I want to take, he doesn't need to ask me, I can 445 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,000 take care of him. I can support him because it's 446 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,700 not about me, and it's actually not about Moses. 447 00:27:36,900 --> 00:27:40,400 It's about the Battle that's going on with Joshua and the 448 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,400 amalekites and we've got a couple minutes left. 449 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,600 What do you think Bob? Well, you know, as I'm thinking 450 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,200 about that one thing that stands out to me Is the first thing 451 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:57,200 they did is they had Moses sit down on a rock and to me what 452 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:03,600 that speaks of is rest because they don't hold him up standing 453 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,900 up but they put him on a rock and that rock. 454 00:28:08,900 --> 00:28:13,400 Just I can't help but think that that rock is Christ even though 455 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:17,900 that has to deal with another issue but still it's they're 456 00:28:17,900 --> 00:28:21,700 giving him rest. On the truth of God's word and 457 00:28:21,700 --> 00:28:24,800 then they hold up his arms. So there's two actions really 458 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,000 that are done besides that. The first action really is 459 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,800 observation. Like you had said, but the neck 460 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:35,400 but the very next one is to have him sit on a rock and he's 461 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,400 resting on Iraq and renal resting on Christ. 462 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,500 Let's just say that on the word of God. 463 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:46,000 And then there is that lifting up of the hands, which testifies 464 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:53,300 of the prayer holding up the Rod of God and and appealing to the 465 00:28:53,300 --> 00:28:56,100 throne of God for victory. That's so good. 466 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,800 And I resting upon Christ in the word. 467 00:29:01,700 --> 00:29:06,800 We find our place of strength and together, and I think this 468 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:08,900 is where we have to close as we're out of time now. 469 00:29:08,900 --> 00:29:11,700 But you've got Joshua doing what he needed to do. 470 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,300 Moses doing what he needed to do, Erin and her, doing what 471 00:29:15,300 --> 00:29:18,900 they needed to do and collaboratively, and as a team, 472 00:29:19,700 --> 00:29:23,400 Victory is won so much, so that God said, write it down. 473 00:29:23,700 --> 00:29:26,600 I want you to remember that my men, I'm your banner. 474 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:32,200 The Lord is our banner and the the need for us to be 475 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,200 like-minded and I know it's hard. 476 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,700 As you guys have stuck with us to the end, I know it's hard. 477 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,100 I know it's challenging, I know that you're facing things, 478 00:29:41,100 --> 00:29:44,400 you've never faced before, I know that it can be difficult, 479 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:48,300 even with people you're serving with but I know that in the Lord 480 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:53,400 resting on, His word arms up in prayer position of surrender. 481 00:29:53,700 --> 00:29:58,400 God will use that in your life. So we're at the end. 482 00:29:58,500 --> 00:30:00,900 Thank you guys. Again for tuning in. 483 00:30:00,900 --> 00:30:02,700 This is the lead to serve podcast. 484 00:30:02,700 --> 00:30:05,700 You can contact us Ed Taylor, dot-org. 485 00:30:05,700 --> 00:30:08,100 You can email me their through the website. 486 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:13,000 Ed Taylor dot, o--, r-- g-- or Church, website, is Calvary Co 487 00:30:13,300 --> 00:30:16,800 Church, download our app, that's the best way to get. 488 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:18,900 Go to go to your app store, put my name in there. 489 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,700 Ed Taylor download our app. That's the best way to stay in 490 00:30:22,700 --> 00:30:25,500 touch with this all of our relevant information is updated 491 00:30:25,500 --> 00:30:29,400 there, as well as the website and you can always text, only 492 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,800 text, don't call the number, we don't answer it, but we do 493 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:37,600 respond to the text 720. 608, 00, 12. 494 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:42,000 You can text any show ideas or feedback or anything like that. 495 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,300 Stick to the positive. Don't be negative and nasty, 496 00:30:45,700 --> 00:30:48,600 it's not from the lord. It's not going to be blessed of 497 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,000 the Lord. It and again we're enjoying the 498 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,700 season even though if we have to do it by phone we will I thank 499 00:30:54,700 --> 00:30:58,600 you for taking the time today. Bob and investing this time in 500 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,500 these conversations Super Rich. Thanks man you bet all right. 501 00:31:02,500 --> 00:31:04,900 God bless you guys. Until next time, you're 502 00:31:04,900 --> 00:31:07,800 listening to lead to serve, stay in touch with us, pray for us 503 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,500 and together. We'll see that what the Lord 504 00:31:10,500 --> 00:31:14,100 will do through us collaboratively as a team 505 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,300 working together. Striving together to maintain 506 00:31:17,300 --> 00:31:21,200 the unity of the spirit in the The piece, thank you for joining 507 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,900 us for this episode of lead, to serve with Pastor Ed, Taylor, a 508 00:31:24,900 --> 00:31:27,400 leadership podcast from Calvary Church in Aurora. 509 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,100 Colorado, if you have a leadership question, you want to 510 00:31:30,100 --> 00:31:33,700 hear answered on a future lead to serve podcast, please email 511 00:31:33,700 --> 00:31:37,400 it to Pastor Ed at Calvary Co dot church and if you like our 512 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:41,500 podcast Please Subscribe rate or review us on iTunes and share us 513 00:31:41,500 --> 00:31:43,300 with your friends on social media. 514 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,400 Thanks again for joining us and we'll see you next time right 515 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,600 here on the lead to serve podcast. 516 00:31:19,100 --> 00:31:22,700 The piece, thank you for joining us for this episode of lead, to 517 00:31:22,700 --> 00:31:26,500 serve with Pastor Ed, Taylor, a leadership podcast from Calvary 518 00:31:26,500 --> 00:31:28,900 Church in Aurora. Colorado, if you have a 519 00:31:28,900 --> 00:31:31,700 leadership question, you want to hear answered on a future lead 520 00:31:31,700 --> 00:31:35,600 to serve podcast, please email it to Pastor Ed at Calvary Co 521 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,700 dot church and if you like our podcast Please Subscribe rate or 522 00:31:39,700 --> 00:31:42,800 review us on iTunes and share us with your friends on social 523 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,100 media. Thanks again for joining us and 524 00:31:45,100 --> 00:31:47,800 we'll see you next time right here on the lead to serve 525 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:48,600 podcast.