1 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:10,560 This is lead to Serve with Ed Taylor, a leadership podcast. 2 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:16,680 Hey, welcome again to a brand new season of the Lead to Serve 3 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:18,760 podcast. My name is Ed Taylor. 4 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:23,880 I'm the pastor here at Calvary Church in Aurora, Co. 5 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:28,640 I am the host of this podcast, and we have been doing it now 6 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:34,360 for six seasons. We're on season #7 We're so 7 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,480 grateful for you, our audience. It continues to grow as you guys 8 00:00:38,480 --> 00:00:43,120 are listening, sharing radio stations are putting the podcast 9 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:46,440 on the air and we're talking about ministry together. 10 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:51,760 Remember, as you're as you're joining us on the podcast, it is 11 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:56,600 like you are in our office and we're talking ministry together. 12 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,360 We've got a topic, we've got some ideas and we're bouncing 13 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:03,080 them off one another or in some episodes out. 14 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:07,320 It'll just be me. But right now, as of this 15 00:01:07,320 --> 00:01:14,680 moment, today's season 7 episode one, joining me is Pastor Bob 16 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:16,040 Klay Camp. Welcome, Bob. 17 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,280 Yeah, it's great to be here. Bob, you've been on the podcast 18 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:21,360 for a few seasons now. What do you think about 19 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,000 podcasting and talking out loud about ministry? 20 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:29,280 Well, you know, it, it is just a normal conversation. 21 00:01:29,960 --> 00:01:37,160 And these are topics that you, you're not only hear about, but 22 00:01:37,320 --> 00:01:41,800 you interact with people and these same topics come up and in 23 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:45,920 their own life situation. And so you have an opportunity 24 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:52,480 to, you know, begin to listen first of all, and then pray 25 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:56,640 through how to start. And then you draw upon the 26 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:00,720 scriptures that the Holy Spirit brings to your mind, as well as 27 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:04,680 looking for not just the symptoms, but the core issues 28 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,640 that are going on in the person's life, and then drawing 29 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,160 upon your own life experience as well. 30 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,880 Yeah, what the Lord's doing in our lives as spiritual leaders, 31 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,080 and that could be spiritual leaders in the church. 32 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:18,840 And I want to welcome everyone. I just want to give a shout out 33 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:23,320 because I know a lot of ministry groups, a lot of churches will 34 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:28,680 use this podcast as a discussion starter for staff meetings, for 35 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,120 leadership gathering. So I just want to give you a 36 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:33,480 shout out. If you're listening to this as a 37 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:38,760 way to spur on love and good works, to stir up your ideas, we 38 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:42,640 want to welcome you. We're grateful that we can speak 39 00:02:42,640 --> 00:02:46,040 into your life and ministry. But it's not just ministry and 40 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,600 church, and it's certainly not just a pastor podcast. 41 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,640 It's a leadership podcast. Whether you're leading at home, 42 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,440 leading at church, leading at work, leading even in the 43 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,520 context of serving, it's not even necessarily a major place 44 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,840 of leadership. But I've always had that view. 45 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,800 I've always held to the position that as Christians, we're always 46 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:06,680 leaders. We're one step ahead. 47 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,960 We're leading people to Christ, lead him to the cross, leading 48 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,240 him to help. So before we jump in to today's 49 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:15,480 topic real quick, I want to introduce Pastor Bob. 50 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:19,040 He has 50 plus years of ministry experience. 51 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:23,720 He's all started out living in a Christian communal home, which 52 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:27,480 I'm sure we could probably do a whole season of podcasts of the 53 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:31,000 Life and Times of Bob Clay Camp and all the things that he has 54 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:33,640 experienced. He shares them with us in our 55 00:03:33,640 --> 00:03:36,160 staff meetings. And although like always 56 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,000 something new, there's always some new story, which is very 57 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,000 interesting. He's lived a very interesting 58 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,280 life in the Lord. He's been in a band. 59 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:46,960 I'm. Did you start that band? 60 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:49,280 No. OK, so he was in a band and. 61 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:53,480 BC Days. OK, we we'll start just in the 62 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:57,320 after Christ days, but living in a Christian communal home. 63 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:01,520 He was the founding and senior pastor Calvary Chapel in North 64 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:05,320 Phoenix and he was a missionary in Exeter, England, which is 65 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:10,080 actually How I Met him and to now the brand new ministry 66 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:15,200 endeavor that he is involved in. He is the leader of the Mission 67 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:19,640 Assist Ministries, which helps churches around the world. 68 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:24,600 So Bob is joining me. He's got a lot of experience and 69 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:26,880 I've had the privilege of serving the Lord for a few 70 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:28,800 years. And we're going to jump into the 71 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,560 topic. The topic today is, I guess you 72 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:36,200 could say, what do we do when we're accused and, and maybe 73 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:40,160 even falsely accused of something? 74 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:43,960 You know that we've been we've been discipled, Bob, we've been 75 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,720 discipled that not to defend ourselves. 76 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:48,160 That's actually how we've been taught. 77 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:52,120 Don't defend yourself. God will be your defense. 78 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:59,280 And that absolute statement is not something I subscribe to. 79 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:04,760 I don't believe that there are times I don't believe that we 80 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:10,040 should never defend ourselves. There are times where in prayer 81 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:14,840 and seeking the Lord, you may have to give an answer. 82 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,920 You may have to answer some some false wild accusation. 83 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,840 However, I have to say and it served me well in the ministry 84 00:05:22,840 --> 00:05:27,040 over the years where living a life above approach to the best 85 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:32,800 of your ability, just living a life honoring the Lord you, you 86 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,720 will have whatever people say, whatever rumor mill those around 87 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:39,760 and just knowing you know, I'm not even going to answer that 88 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,480 the Lord's going to take care of it and that has served me well. 89 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:48,760 I do believe, however, there are times when we need to speak up 90 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,320 or give an answer of some sort, which I'm sure we'll talk about 91 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,720 in a minute. But how about we start with you 92 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,680 need to expect that you're going to have rumors people talking 93 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:02,520 about you false accusations. I I I was thinking on the way in 94 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,920 today to the studio that the devil is the accuser of the 95 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,400 brethren. So we shouldn't, Yeah, we 96 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:11,160 shouldn't be surprised. So what do you think? 97 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:16,360 What are your thoughts on that? Well, it's hard when you first 98 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:21,440 received the accusation because there's a reaction, There is an 99 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,400 emotional reaction. And if you're kind of an 100 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:28,600 emotional person, then it will just ramp you up and get you 101 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,440 wound up. And that's when sometimes you 102 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:35,680 just got to wait 24 hours, take a nap or something, settle down, 103 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:41,840 and then you have to go. First of all, how does the Lord 104 00:06:41,840 --> 00:06:45,320 see things? It has to go back to him and not 105 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,200 to you. God doesn't receive rumors 106 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:53,080 because He's a God of truth, which is really comforting 107 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,440 because that's why one of the 10 commandments is you should not 108 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,800 bear false witness because He knows the truth, right? 109 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,480 And it's so easy to jump on the bandwagon and you hear an 110 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:07,720 accusation of, let's say somebody important or a leader, 111 00:07:08,280 --> 00:07:11,360 and then you immediately go to the negative and saying, well, I 112 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:15,480 thought something was going on. And and instead of you just got 113 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:20,960 to like pull that horse back and go to the Lord and regarding you 114 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:25,040 and you go, OK, Lord, you know the truth about me. 115 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,480 And if there are things that need to be changed, you have the 116 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,760 ability to do it through your nature. 117 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:39,000 Kindness, graciousness, being merciful, being God of truth. 118 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:43,320 You know how I process my world and you can reason with me to 119 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:45,160 know where. Where do I start? 120 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:50,480 But I can't just do knee jerk reactions and start defending 121 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:54,440 myself right away. I would even say that as we 122 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:59,040 enter into some to an the arena of ministry and ministering to 123 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:01,520 other people, serving other people, having other people in 124 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,880 our lives. This goes the context of course, 125 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,520 that we're talking about is here in the church, but at work. 126 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,080 This happens at work. This happens in our families 127 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:15,240 like this. This is a common presence of 128 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:19,840 attack in our lives that we first of all have to enter in 129 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:25,920 very perfectly and carefully. And if we become defensive of 130 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,360 something because we have to step back and go, wait a minute, 131 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,920 is there anything true? Yeah. 132 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:36,400 If we're walking in humility, which we must prayerfully, 133 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:40,360 carefully, we're living a life of transparency and we know 134 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,520 things are going to come. We can't. 135 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:47,440 We have to train ourselves not to become defensive, to build a 136 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:51,800 wall right away as our first, which is normal. 137 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:56,200 Yeah, I don't know how healthy it is, but it's normal because 138 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,840 nobody likes to be cute. Nobody likes to be confronted 139 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,320 that nobody likes. In the day and age now where you 140 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:06,280 have social media, it isn't. It isn't the days. 141 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:11,680 It isn't the days where you know you have to play the phone tag 142 00:09:11,680 --> 00:09:14,400 game and you call so and so call and so and so before you know 143 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:15,720 it. After a couple weeks, it's 144 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,360 finally like social media that goes around the world in a 145 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:22,080 millisecond and whoever's reading it and whoever sees it, 146 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,400 whoever wants to receive it and it gets back to you. 147 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:32,400 We have to stop and ask the question to ourselves first and 148 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,400 foremost. Is there anything true in this? 149 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:41,080 Do I have any kind of ownership? Is is this a misunderstanding? 150 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:45,040 I mean, I even, I guess if you step back thinking out loud, do 151 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:49,400 I even know the person? Because the, the day used to be 152 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,440 where you'd get an anonymous letter. 153 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,800 You'd get a, a little envelope on your desk, anonymous. 154 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:57,880 No sign. You, you'd look, you immediately 155 00:09:57,880 --> 00:09:59,760 open up the envelope, look to the end. 156 00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:02,800 There's no signature and you just shred it because there's no 157 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:04,280 relationship. There's no. 158 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:05,760 There's no accountability either. 159 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:07,040 Right. You don't even know who it is. 160 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,040 You can't even work it out. According to the Scriptures, 161 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,280 Matthew 18, Matthew 6, you, you, you don't even have any 162 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:18,040 opportunity to work it out. And and so if in the realm of 163 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:22,520 social media, in the, in the realm of the reality of way 164 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,160 rumors and things get spread today, you're looking for 165 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:28,200 relationship. But I just know, I just know if 166 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,680 I become hyper defensive, then the Holy Spirit is definitely 167 00:10:31,680 --> 00:10:34,600 touching something in my life. Definitely touching it. 168 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:38,320 It it may not be the the whole situation may not be what it 169 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,080 what it is, what it appears, you know, in its fullness. 170 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,880 But like, if I'm getting hyper defensive about it, then there 171 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:46,760 may be something I need to take to the Lord. 172 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:48,960 Sure. That's absolutely right. 173 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:52,640 You look at the Psalms and how many Psalms that David wrote. 174 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,240 He had to get it out to the Lord and he was brutally honest and 175 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:59,640 maybe not so much theologically correct. 176 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,640 I mean, when he says how long you going to forsake me Lord 177 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,080 forever, I mean, that's not the correct. 178 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:09,120 And but he had to get it out. And usually by the end of the 179 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:13,680 Psalm, he's praising the Lord and he's confident for a moment, 180 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:19,840 you know, because for David, it was like relentless and unfair 181 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,200 and unjust and all the rest of it. 182 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:28,920 And as I mentioned earlier about getting wound up quickly, that 183 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:33,400 that's when you have to just stop because sometimes being 184 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:38,960 overly defensive almost works against you, will always works 185 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,840 against you and almost validates the accusation. 186 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:47,320 You know, the, the reality of of defensiveness too, is we don't 187 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:51,840 give room for the Holy Spirit to work between us because I'm 188 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:55,040 offended or I'm hurt and it does hurt. 189 00:11:55,680 --> 00:11:58,800 So you guys listening in right now, I do want to, I do want to 190 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:04,720 affirm that criticism, rumors, accusations, anything that would 191 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,640 put you in a defensive mode, it does hurt. 192 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:11,640 And I would even say some of you listening to to us right now, 193 00:12:11,680 --> 00:12:14,600 you're hurting and you're listening to us and trying to 194 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,520 process what we're saying, trying to think it through, but 195 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:19,600 you're thinking it through the hurt and the pain. 196 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:24,560 It is a very painful thing to see relationships and to see 197 00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:28,560 friendships and to see people you've poured your life into. 198 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,160 You have sacrificed. And I don't want to. 199 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:33,360 I'm not trying to be overly dramatic here. 200 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:37,600 I'm just trying to lay out a lifestyle of serving Jesus and 201 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:42,280 pouring into lives only to see at the end that they've turned 202 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:44,640 on you. I, I think of it could be as 203 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:51,080 brutal as Judas. It could be the, the betrayal or 204 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:55,760 the personal hurt that Paul felt when Demas forsook him, whatever 205 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:59,560 that looks like. Just the very simple fact that 206 00:12:59,560 --> 00:13:02,600 Dimas didn't want to serve with him anymore or abandoned him. 207 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:06,080 Or, and we we can see Paul had an issue with this because he 208 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:07,560 dealt with this with John Mark too. 209 00:13:07,560 --> 00:13:11,360 When John Mark left, that wounded him and he got upset 210 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:13,520 about it. Dimas left the later on in his 211 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,000 ministry. He still has that wound that 212 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,400 that wound of abandonment or people not partnering with him 213 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,160 or maybe not having the same commitment. 214 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:26,120 It is painful, but I was thinking of Psalm 35 with David 215 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,040 because it's not just that God will be our defense. 216 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:32,720 There are times when we need to speak up and the 1st place we 217 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:38,560 need to speak up is to the Lord. Psalm 35, David responds, you 218 00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:41,560 know, it's like contend, O Lord, with those who contend with me, 219 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,040 fight against those who fight against me, take up the shield 220 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,960 in the buckler and arise and come to my aid there. 221 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:53,040 There is a there is a response, a healthy response where you can 222 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:57,360 acknowledge the criticism, you can acknowledge the the 223 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,280 statements that were made that are false, completely false, 224 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:04,280 partially false, that get under your skin because sometimes it 225 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:09,440 it is received on a bad day. Well, yeah, if it's. 226 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:11,560 The animals. Behind it, yes. 227 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,800 Because he knows about you having a bad day, he probably 228 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,080 set it up you. Know yes yeah the the bad day 229 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:25,120 even exhaust exacerbates that. And you know the you're right, 230 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:27,480 God doesn't I as you said earlier God doesn't receive 231 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:29,880 rumors about us, but other people do. 232 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,960 And so it can you think of a time where somebody believed a 233 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:35,600 lie about you and it hurt you deeply. 234 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,800 Well, sure. I mean, somebody comes into your 235 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:46,800 office and this happened in in down in Phoenix and accused me 236 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,960 of being a Pharisee and accused me of this, accused me of that 237 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:54,400 and was taking people away from the church and spreading rumors 238 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:58,400 and and that was it made me upset. 239 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,920 It wasn't right. And you know, I can be, I can 240 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,600 have, I have to watch my emotions because I'm, I think 241 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:12,520 I'm more of a musician kind of feeler person and and I can get 242 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:16,200 wound up pretty quickly without slowing down and thinking it 243 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:20,520 through. And the Holy Spirit is really 244 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:25,240 good at those times to say, watch it, bless those who curse 245 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:29,760 you, do good to those who do evil, Pray for those who 246 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,040 despitefully use you and persecute you. 247 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:39,720 And I think in that process of purposing to pray for you are 248 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:43,440 allowing the Holy Spirit to come right behind it and do a level 249 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:48,240 of healing may not be 100% because God is working on your 250 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:50,240 heart because there are deeper issues. 251 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:59,920 We always have to be careful to not get legalistic and to hear 252 00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:03,880 people's heart. But at the end of the day, you 253 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:08,920 it took a while, it took a few weeks of prayer before I was 254 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,640 able to actually invite the guy back to my office so that we 255 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:15,880 could just at least pray. And I can ask for God's blessing 256 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:20,160 on him as he as he goes, because he left the church and took some 257 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:24,560 people with him and. If you make a lot of decisions 258 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:28,400 as leaders would, or you're overseeing a ministry, 259 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,280 overseeing something in, the more decisions you make, the 260 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,400 more open you are to be misunderstood. 261 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,840 And how a person processes their misunderstanding of you could 262 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,720 either lead to coming to you for clarity or accusing you or 263 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,600 making up something in their minds that you're doing. 264 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:50,040 I, I remember, I, I, I get a lot of this over the years, 25 years 265 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,000 of ministry, you get double of it because you've been in 266 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,520 ministry 50 plus years. But the, I remember when we 267 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,080 stepped in and we were just taking a step of faith, it was a 268 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,600 very public step of faith here in this church in purchasing a 269 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:03,640 radio station. It was very expensive, 270 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:08,319 especially in relationship to our church budget and all of 271 00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:10,680 that. It was super expensive, millions 272 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,520 of dollars to buy radio station, but I and the leaders of the 273 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,680 church, the elders of this church, we're convinced this was 274 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,400 from the Lord. We were convinced that he opened 275 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,440 the door. It was an amazing miraculous 276 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:25,040 door to open. It was a step of faith. 277 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,160 It was not even a personal decision that would affect 278 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,280 people personally. Like I didn't make a mistake 279 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,520 with someone. I didn't say something wrong. 280 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,480 I didn't make a joke that hit wrong or hurt someone's 281 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,120 feelings, which would not then be criticism. 282 00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:41,600 It would just be add you need to be, you need to watch your 283 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:43,720 mouth. And I'm like, yes, Lord, I do 284 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:45,200 need, I need you to guard my mouth. 285 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,120 But it was, it was a step of faith. 286 00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:49,480 And I, the reason this story comes to mind is I want you to 287 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:53,760 know you guys, they're listening that this stuff happens even 288 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:57,760 when you don't make any mistakes like you're, you're and you have 289 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:02,920 the accountability, you have the support, you have the life above 290 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:04,520 reproach. And we're just taking a step of 291 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:06,960 faith. And the accusations came in and 292 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:09,120 they weren't many, but there were a few. 293 00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:12,200 So it was more than one that this stirred up in people. 294 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:14,920 Well, you know, Ed, you're wasting church money. 295 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,320 We could do and whatever else they had in mind instead of 296 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:21,640 getting a radio station. And the one that stung the most, 297 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,000 and I, I, I mean, it's obviously still in my mind, but it's stung 298 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:29,080 was you're doing this for yourself and you're trying to 299 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,440 make a name for yourself. And, and it was just boom, like 300 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:36,080 it hit like, and, and I, I stopped and, you know, it was 301 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,240 out. These, these were folks coming 302 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,800 up to me after service. I just talked about the study 303 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:42,600 and they're wanting to express me. 304 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,960 I, I made the announcement and, and for the next few weeks, I 305 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,920 had a few of these conversations that they don't really want to 306 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:50,680 sit down with me. They just want to tell me that 307 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,320 we're leaving the church because of their accusations. 308 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:59,760 But I did I do remember it stung and I really had to sit down and 309 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:04,240 go, OK, God am I really like is I mean, it's not with beyond the 310 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:09,880 realm of possibility that I would somehow have some selfish 311 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:11,640 thought and make it a church thought I could. 312 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,800 So like, I wouldn't want that. I don't, I don't want that. 313 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:20,880 But I remember the Lord was very quick to revive the truth inside 314 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:21,760 of me. The truth. 315 00:19:22,360 --> 00:19:24,800 This was a long process. It it wasn't just an 316 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:29,080 announcement, a 45 second two-minute announcement at a 317 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,280 church service. We have been praying, knocking 318 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:36,800 and seeking and asking for years for this because there were 319 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,880 other things behind the scenes that even when you explain them, 320 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,280 they, they, the folks didn't, they wanted to believe what they 321 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,680 believed. And we did end up doing, We did 322 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,600 end up following through and pressing through those 323 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:51,880 accusations. We sorted them out, took them to 324 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:56,240 the elders, make sure we're all on the same page because there 325 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:01,000 was a greater vision that God had given us that others just 326 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,320 didn't resonate with. Right away. 327 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,960 And they may or may not have resonated since then. 328 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,720 I hope they have, because it God has shown himself faithful in 329 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,320 this step of faith, that this is what he wanted us to do. 330 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,560 And this realm of stepping out in faith may not be fully 331 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:19,560 understood. Sometimes accusations and things 332 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,600 just come from a misunderstanding. 333 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,000 Yeah. And you get a chance, I hope, to 334 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,640 explain yourself if that's really why someone's speaking 335 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:31,120 up. So that all along we're going to 336 00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:35,160 grow in our maturity, in our relationship with God. 337 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,360 But the underlying thing that's important, I believe the 338 00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:45,680 foundational pillars is honesty, transparency, accountability, 339 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:50,400 that we have those pillars around us that when accusations 340 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:55,360 come, we can stand in the truth, not become defensive, process it 341 00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:58,280 in such a way of God. What do you have for me? 342 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,200 Why did you allow this? I know it's an I know often 343 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,880 false accusations always are from the accuser of the 344 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,640 brethren. But if there's a if there's 345 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:10,600 truth in it, if there's some truth and it was the delivery if 346 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:14,240 it was the person maybe said the right thing the wrong way, 347 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,720 possibly that we step back and go, OK, you wanting me to grow 348 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,600 God, you're wanting me to humble myself. 349 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,840 You're wanting me to you're wanting to show me something 350 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,840 that I don't see in the delivery mechanism was just wrong. 351 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:31,320 But this back to the beginning, I want to hear your thoughts 352 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,000 because I've come to a conclusion, but I want to hear 353 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,840 your thoughts. Do you still subscribe to the 354 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,000 way because we were discipled similarly by basically the same 355 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:43,720 man in his pastor Chuck Smith in the streams of various men that 356 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,800 we served under. But do you subscribe to never 357 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:51,360 defend yourself, Never speak up? No, no, I think God being our 358 00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:54,960 defense is foundational no matter what's happening. 359 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,600 I mean, Romans 828, all things were together for good to those 360 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,240 who love God, to those who are the called according to his 361 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,120 purpose. And then the next verse has to 362 00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:06,480 do with being conformed into the image of Christ. 363 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:10,080 And so God uses all things because he already knows what's 364 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,800 coming. Even the devil's accusations and 365 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,440 and attacks have to go through the Lord for his permission. 366 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,600 And so how does God want to use this? 367 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:28,000 I think that when an accusation comes against you, you have to 368 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,680 discern, is this person even wanting to hear the back story? 369 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,480 Because if they don't even want to hear the back story, it's 370 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,480 just an attack, you know, and hurting people hurt people. 371 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:42,600 I mean, there are times when it's just they had a bad day and 372 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,920 what you said or what you did caught them off guard and, and 373 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:50,240 they're in attack mode. I mean, I'm it happens at home. 374 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,480 In any real relationship. Yeah, absolutely. 375 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,200 In the closest relationship of marriage, you know, you're 376 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,840 opening yourself up to your spouse in a way that you don't 377 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:04,960 open up yourself to anybody else. 378 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:09,560 And so because you become that vulnerable when there's an 379 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:15,080 accusation of your motive, then there's an there's a response. 380 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:20,360 And that's when you have to stop and say what, just like you were 381 00:23:20,360 --> 00:23:25,440 talking about what part of it might be true regarding me, not 382 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:30,480 because you can escalate that that thing and all of a sudden, 383 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,400 you know, you're in a tornado in in the house and. 384 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:37,560 And you're consumed with pride. You're consumed with pride where 385 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,080 I am right and everyone else is wrong. 386 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,440 This, this really is the beginning of the downfall of any 387 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:47,360 spiritual leader, any marriage, any relationship, a hardened 388 00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:51,960 heart where the condition of the overall church today where we 389 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,720 see pastors falling or abusiveness or it starts much 390 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,200 smaller. It doesn't start at the top, it 391 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:02,960 starts much smaller and it even it can begin with this little 392 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:04,760 area where there's self protection. 393 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,280 You're, I have to say, the more you serve, the more people you 394 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:09,640 serve. And it's not the size of the 395 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,160 church that matters here. It's not the size of the church 396 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,840 where you're might be a pastor listening in. 397 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:17,200 Well, I have a really small church. 398 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,080 Well, yeah. Well, one. 399 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:24,640 One hit in a small church could be just as devastating as one 400 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,680 hit in a large church because it's a person well. 401 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,080 Yeah, and the relationships are much deeper in a smaller church. 402 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:34,360 They really are in many ways and the and and so I'm not 403 00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:36,960 advocating and I wouldn't I I wouldn't encourage. 404 00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:39,760 It's a case by case. Of course, it's a case by case 405 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,120 because there were times where according to prophetic, 406 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,440 according to prophecy, Jesus, he goes without a word. 407 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:47,960 He goes without a word. He's heading to the cross 408 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,240 without a word. However, in John chapter 8, he 409 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,680 had a word. He said you belong to your 410 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,760 father, the devil and you want to carry out your father's 411 00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:02,080 desire like you like, like he, he stood firm at sometimes and 412 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,240 he was even strong with strong words. 413 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,320 And I, I remember an episode with strong words that I, I 414 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,160 didn't use these kind of words, but I remember God, there was a 415 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,400 situation, there were all witnesses in my office. 416 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:14,760 We're trying to work something out. 417 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,240 A brother had brought accusations about something I 418 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,880 did in ministry, not personally, but like as a leader. 419 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,680 And we had all the witnesses in there and we're all talking. 420 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,480 And I just had this in the Holy Spirit put in my heart that time 421 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,080 when Nehemiah, I looked down and said, you're making this up in 422 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,080 your own mind. And I, I just shared that I 423 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,440 said, Hey, we need to stop here because now you're you, you had 424 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,920 a original hurt. And that was it that, that, that 425 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:41,680 situation, I remember it was valid. 426 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,320 That situation itself was valid. And that's what we were trying 427 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,800 to work out. But by the end of his five 428 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,200 minute discussion, I just had to stop and go stop. 429 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,840 What what you're talking about now did not happen. 430 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,280 You are making that up in your mind. 431 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,480 We got to get back to what did happen and let's see if we can 432 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,720 work it out. Let's see if we can go back to 433 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,760 the the hurt, the pain, the offense. 434 00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:11,000 Because after talking about it for 5 minutes, or really we all 435 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,920 do this to some degree where we're talking about, thinking 436 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,720 about, processing about. And we have created a narrative 437 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:24,560 around an event that may or may not have truth to it. 438 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,960 Like we're just the event happened and then we're thinking 439 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:29,600 about it, thinking about it, thinking about it, thinking 440 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,960 about it, thinking about it, and then all those iterations of 441 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,120 thinking about it, It actually isn't what happened. 442 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,680 Yeah, right. We, we developed a whole 443 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:41,720 scenario, a whole play really, you know, Act 2 and then got the 444 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:47,880 whole story as unfolding because of assumptions and reconceived 445 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:54,280 notions, fears. I mean, all this comes in and in 446 00:26:54,280 --> 00:27:01,680 the home of what happens is when my wife says I don't, I don't 447 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,080 like what you did. I don't think it was the right 448 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:05,600 way. Does Jeannie really say that? 449 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:07,840 Yeah, she. Yeah. 450 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:15,080 She's she's a lady of truth. And then what I need to do at 451 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:19,840 that time, not that I always do it, but what I need to do is I'm 452 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:24,120 saying, and you give me 24 hours just to pray over this and let's 453 00:27:24,120 --> 00:27:29,160 talk about it again, OK? Because at least sometimes part 454 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,160 of it is that you're not even willing to listen, even 455 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,960 consider. Because when you start getting 456 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,680 defensive and it's the principle of the thing and not even the 457 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:43,760 issue, then you're just ramping it up and you're creating more 458 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,080 and more trouble. The principle of The thing is 459 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:52,880 really the I one of my favorite television shows is People's 460 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,720 Court. Liked it since I was a child. 461 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,280 It's not on anymore. Maybe in reruns in some places, 462 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:00,840 but probably. On YouTube. 463 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,840 The whole essence of the People's Court is they're suing 464 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,080 on principle. I mean, it's 20 bucks, 50 bucks, 465 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:12,640 $300.00. Judy, very similar show and the, 466 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:17,080 the, the principle of the thing where you're, you're just asking 467 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:21,680 and wanting someone to validate that you're right or wrong. 468 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,360 It's not even about the money, although money comes into play 469 00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:28,280 and it's the probably the motivating factor that puts you 470 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,920 over the edge. But we, I, we, we, we often live 471 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,000 our lives trying to prove principles rather than living in 472 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,160 the spirit and walking in the spirit. 473 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:42,080 Or I was thinking People's Court would not exist if the world 474 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:46,040 lived by the principle that Paul wrote to the Corinthians. 475 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,640 Why won't you rather just be wronged, Right? 476 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,240 And I'll tell you why, because it stings and it hurts. 477 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:58,880 And I don't want to be wronged. And I, I sometimes will factor 478 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,800 in other people's wrongs toward me, toward my motive. 479 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,760 My motive is I don't want to wrong anyone, even though I have 480 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:06,480 wronged people. I don't want to. 481 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:11,000 So I judge myself on my motives, but I judge you by your actions 482 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,720 and they never match. I need to do the same thing. 483 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,560 I need to give you some space. And that's what we're asking 484 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,760 for, for someone else as well. And we're coming up to the end 485 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,720 of our episode today, but we'll pick up a little bit of this in 486 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,960 the next episode because the topics are overlapping. 487 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:31,240 But I, I will never really match unless I judge you or approach 488 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:32,920 you in the same way I approach myself. 489 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,480 And so if motives are very important to me for my actions, 490 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,080 then I also need to hear you and give you an opportunity to share 491 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,000 your heart. Because it could have just been 492 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,520 an accident. It could have just been a 493 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,280 mistake. It could have just been I did 494 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:48,880 it. I'm not saying I didn't do it. 495 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:53,680 I did it but but the motive wasn't for you to feel that way 496 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:59,320 or and and so looping back to accusation, I think today or or 497 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:04,520 rumor or offenses just as leaders as we start off our 498 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,760 season. We wanted to validate if you're 499 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:11,080 on the other end of of a situation like this, we're sorry 500 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:16,360 and you don't necessarily have to sit back and do nothing and 501 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,520 say, well, you know, God's my defender and carry that hurt. 502 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,400 Carry that pain. Let it let it stir up in you and 503 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:29,120 make you hard hearted. You can answer sometimes you can 504 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,120 defend the integrity of the situation. 505 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,600 Sometimes certainly Jesus did that, David did that the 506 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,120 disciples spoke up. This is not an unbiblical 507 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:45,360 concept to be able to speak up, to be able to obey Matthew 18 if 508 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,440 you have been offended, even as a leader, if you ever been 509 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,880 offended to call up and and share that offense. 510 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,840 And if your brother hears you, you have won your brother and 511 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,240 it's over. And the enemy doesn't get the 512 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:02,200 benefit of his accusation hitting the target and 513 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:06,720 destroying a life. And that is the whole essence of 514 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:11,920 this episode because we we have been taught and sometimes we 515 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,200 apply it. Just let it go, let it come, let 516 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:15,640 it come. They don't just get hit, hit, 517 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:17,560 hit, hit, hit and don't ever defend yourself. 518 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,720 And I say that there are times when you can't speak up. 519 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,120 It depends on where it came from and how don't don't jump in, 520 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,520 don't misunderstand me. Somebody shoots something on 521 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,560 social media and now you're going to answer them on social 522 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,880 media. Wrong platform. 523 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:36,400 Nothing good comes when you try to do that like because then you 524 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,440 got the watching world seen two Christians fight each other, you 525 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,400 know, so that's probably another discussion all together. 526 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,480 But I want to welcome you all to season 7. 527 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,320 We come to the end of episode 1. My name is Ed Taylor, I'm in 528 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:53,920 studio with Bob Klaykamp. We're pastors, We're we're also 529 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:58,000 men of God seeking to obey him and follow him and love him and 530 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,160 and lead, lead well. And we're grateful that you've 531 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:03,760 joined us. I know it's been a while since 532 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,040 seasons, but timing is everything. 533 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,560 So the Holy Spirit has the perfect timing. 534 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:13,520 We want you to contact us because most of the topics this 535 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:17,640 season were listener thoughts and questions because we asked 536 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,840 for you to do that. And you can text them at 537 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:27,640 720-608-0012. You can text that anytime or you 538 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:33,080 can e-mail, you can e-mail me at ed@edtaylor.org. 539 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,240 My website saidtaylor.org. Bob, you have a website Bob Clay 540 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,520 Camp dot dot com. So Bob klaycam.com we're 541 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,080 available to serve you. Pastor Bob has just launched 542 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:49,360 into a brand new season of ministry, ministering in Mission 543 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:55,520 assist I and he's doing a great work doing exactly what God has 544 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,880 called him to do in this latter season of his life. 545 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,960 So thanks again for being a part of the Lead to Serve podcast. 546 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:07,320 Season 7 Episode 1 is in the books and we'll see you next 547 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:11,280 time right here as these podcasts get posted. 548 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,080 God bless you guys. Thank you for joining us for 549 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,320 this episode of Lead to Serve with Pastor Ed Taylor, a 550 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,520 leadership podcast from Calvary Church in Aurora, Co. 551 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:22,880 If you have a leadership question you want to hear 552 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,240 answered on a future Lead to Serve podcast, please e-mail it 553 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,880 to Pastor Ed at Calvary Co dot church. 554 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,520 And if you like our podcast, please subscribe, rate or review 555 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,680 us on iTunes and share us with your friends on social media. 556 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,880 Thanks again for joining us, and we'll see you next time right 557 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,000 here on the Lead to Serve podcast.