1 00:00:05,700 --> 00:00:09,500 Calvary Church, presents lead to serve a leadership, podcast with 2 00:00:09,500 --> 00:00:14,500 Ed Taylor. Welcome to a special edition of 3 00:00:14,500 --> 00:00:18,000 the lead to serve podcast, actually the beginning of a few 4 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,300 special editions. My name is Ed Taylor and I have 5 00:00:21,300 --> 00:00:25,000 the privilege of pastoring here at Calvary Church in Aurora, 6 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:28,300 Colorado. I also hosts a daily live 7 00:00:28,300 --> 00:00:31,700 call-in show on radio stations across the country where we 8 00:00:31,700 --> 00:00:36,300 talked about life, as it relates to God's will for our lives with 9 00:00:36,300 --> 00:00:38,300 all the racial tensions around us. 10 00:00:38,700 --> 00:00:42,300 I've invited personal friends to join me on my radio show to have 11 00:00:42,300 --> 00:00:47,000 real raw discussions on racism and how the Gospel of Jesus 12 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,000 Christ applies. We vetted him down for this 13 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:54,300 podcast and will be airing them successively here in the coming 14 00:00:54,300 --> 00:00:56,600 days. I hope the Lord helps you to 15 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:01,000 lead even more effectively in this time of deep deep pain 16 00:01:01,300 --> 00:01:07,500 sorrow and difficulty as you look to him, I know he will. 17 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,900 Let's jump in to today's podcast. 18 00:01:12,100 --> 00:01:15,300 Good afternoon everyone and welcome to today's edition of 19 00:01:15,300 --> 00:01:18,900 Calvary live. My name is Ed Taylor, taking 20 00:01:18,900 --> 00:01:25,500 your calls and your questions today. 30 3690 3000, 30 3690 21 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:34,300 3000 is the number will be taking your calls and your 22 00:01:34,300 --> 00:01:39,300 questions today. It's been a very eventful. 23 00:01:40,900 --> 00:01:44,100 Three, four months. It's been a very eventful, three 24 00:01:44,100 --> 00:01:50,600 or four weeks and we want to open up the dialogue and the 25 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:57,900 opportunities for us to come together and be a part of what 26 00:01:57,900 --> 00:02:02,100 God is doing and how he is operating in our culture, how 27 00:02:02,100 --> 00:02:08,400 he's operating in our lives. And so we are glad that you have 28 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:13,700 come to join us on. The radio, and we're going to 29 00:02:13,700 --> 00:02:16,600 have a special guest in studio here in just a few moments. 30 00:02:18,100 --> 00:02:23,800 As we continue our conversation, surrounding the racial tensions 31 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,700 that are going on. Yeah, you're right. 32 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:31,200 We have been dedicating some programs to this topic and 33 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:36,800 they're very important. They're very important to to 34 00:02:36,900 --> 00:02:42,800 frame within the context of our understanding of the scriptures 35 00:02:43,300 --> 00:02:48,300 and our responsibility as Believers in the The world that 36 00:02:48,300 --> 00:02:54,200 we have and so give me a call 3036, 90 3000. 37 00:02:54,500 --> 00:02:56,000 Kevin, could you come and help him? 38 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:02,900 30 3690 3000 is the number. We have a special guest. 39 00:03:02,900 --> 00:03:06,700 So what we're going to get them all set up first as our producer 40 00:03:06,700 --> 00:03:11,400 comes in and fixes all of the all of his wires, make sure he's 41 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:18,100 all good to go. So today's guest is A pastor on 42 00:03:18,100 --> 00:03:23,300 our team here is name is a vent Ramsey and Avon we're going to 43 00:03:23,300 --> 00:03:26,300 have you talk right up into the microphone about this close so 44 00:03:26,300 --> 00:03:31,400 you can move it close to you, no problem and a vent. 45 00:03:31,700 --> 00:03:35,900 I've got a some information on a van that we have a van is 46 00:03:35,900 --> 00:03:41,300 married to Barbara for how many years event. 38, 38 years, and 47 00:03:41,300 --> 00:03:46,300 he has two kids event. And Michael, it says you began 48 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,100 attending in 2008. But I have a feeling it's 49 00:03:49,100 --> 00:03:52,800 earlier than that, because we weren't in the school in 2008. 50 00:03:53,300 --> 00:03:56,900 So I'm thinking we left the school in 2006. 51 00:03:58,700 --> 00:04:00,600 And you were there before we left the school. 52 00:04:00,700 --> 00:04:03,900 Yes, I was. So you've been with us for a 53 00:04:03,908 --> 00:04:05,600 while? 14, 15 years. 54 00:04:06,100 --> 00:04:11,700 You've been on our team since 2007. 18, you you how many years 55 00:04:11,700 --> 00:04:18,600 did you devote to UPS 30 years? I never asked you, this just to 56 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:23,900 start out on something lighter. Have you ever estimated all the 57 00:04:23,900 --> 00:04:25,800 years? You served at UPS how many 58 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:30,200 packages that you possibly may be delivered. 59 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,000 There was a time. I believed that statistic was 60 00:04:33,100 --> 00:04:37,100 given to us and well over a million package and that would 61 00:04:37,100 --> 00:04:38,300 be you individually. Yes. 62 00:04:38,500 --> 00:04:43,500 A million packages. And so, very faithful in driving 63 00:04:43,500 --> 00:04:49,000 around on Town, even though I'll event could could say he grew. 64 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,000 Although a vent could say he grew up in the church, he would 65 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,300 also add that, he knew of Jesus, but didn't have a personal 66 00:04:55,300 --> 00:04:58,800 relationship with Christ of any kind, so, it hung out with 67 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:00,200 Believers. He hung out with those, that 68 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,500 didn't believe, but he remembers coming home from a basketball 69 00:05:03,500 --> 00:05:07,500 game, a Christian league and felt the weariness of running 70 00:05:07,500 --> 00:05:09,900 from the Lord. And he knew many of his friends 71 00:05:09,900 --> 00:05:11,900 have been praying for him and a vat. 72 00:05:11,900 --> 00:05:14,800 Remembers looking into the rearview mirror of his car, 73 00:05:15,100 --> 00:05:19,300 noticing his eyes, and he began to plead with God to change him 74 00:05:19,500 --> 00:05:23,000 and he had to stop running from the Lord and God answered his 75 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:24,100 cry. Wow. 76 00:05:25,500 --> 00:05:29,800 I'm think we got that off the website and how powerful it is. 77 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,100 Powerful, it brings back memories, doesn't it? 78 00:05:32,900 --> 00:05:35,800 And so with all that in mind, welcome to the program event. 79 00:05:35,900 --> 00:05:38,200 Thank you sir. I'm grateful that you. 80 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,500 Had joined me. And with all that's been going 81 00:05:41,500 --> 00:05:45,400 on in the last couple weeks with the racial tension, the riots, 82 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,800 the concerns. I always want to start out by 83 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:50,700 asking, how are you doing personally? 84 00:05:53,300 --> 00:05:57,900 Well, let's go back to our. Let's go back to our staff 85 00:05:57,900 --> 00:06:03,800 meeting today and we begin to book The third option and Pastor 86 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:09,700 Keegan begin the discussion for the first two chapters and I 87 00:06:09,700 --> 00:06:14,200 didn't make a comment at all, as a matter of fact, I admitted to 88 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:20,200 the staff in its entirety. That I had just couldn't 89 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:24,300 contribute because of the heaviness on my heart of what 90 00:06:24,300 --> 00:06:27,600 has been happening in our country, in our city. 91 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:32,900 And, and in my heart, I was noticing, I was sitting on the 92 00:06:32,900 --> 00:06:35,700 other side of the room, you were closer to the Whiteboard. 93 00:06:35,700 --> 00:06:37,100 I was on the other side of the room. 94 00:06:37,300 --> 00:06:40,800 And for some reason, your we're all facing each other but the 95 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:44,900 table that you and Kevin said in were facing us you know somehow 96 00:06:44,900 --> 00:06:46,200 facing. I don't know how they set that 97 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,700 up, but I could, I had a straight shot, you know, 98 00:06:48,700 --> 00:06:51,800 whiteboard and then your right to the left of where Keegan was 99 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:56,700 and and I could tell something was was going on and I didn't 100 00:06:56,700 --> 00:07:00,100 want to guess I wouldn't have known what it was but what what 101 00:07:00,100 --> 00:07:03,100 happened? What happened this morning was 102 00:07:03,100 --> 00:07:08,300 that we we began as a staff to go through a book study 103 00:07:08,300 --> 00:07:11,800 together. We were going through the book 104 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,700 on being a servant of God. Most of our discipleship is a 105 00:07:15,707 --> 00:07:20,000 staff is how to be better servants, how to how to be 106 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:24,300 better. Christian servants, staff 107 00:07:24,300 --> 00:07:27,900 members just learning how to serve and we were right in the 108 00:07:27,907 --> 00:07:31,000 middle of that book. All this went down and I was Has 109 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,500 reminded of Pastor miles McPherson. 110 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,900 A video actually a teaching at a conference couple years ago. 111 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,200 Our yeah, maybe two years ago I brought that video back then. 112 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,200 I brought that book. I think it was last year, 113 00:07:44,300 --> 00:07:47,000 brought that book back. It became a book of the month, 114 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,100 but we never went through it. We never studied it. 115 00:07:50,900 --> 00:07:55,200 There was no, I don't think anyone really, I know I didn't 116 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,300 have an urgency, I don't remember an urgency on our team 117 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:00,700 and, you know, became a book of the month. 118 00:08:00,900 --> 00:08:03,600 It's in the bookstore. We encouraged it. 119 00:08:03,700 --> 00:08:06,600 I read half of it back then I didn't finish it. 120 00:08:07,500 --> 00:08:11,800 I felt it was an important word. I had never heard it frame that 121 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,900 way, even his introductory remarks, it was great. 122 00:08:14,900 --> 00:08:19,000 And then all this went down and then urgency struck in my heart 123 00:08:19,500 --> 00:08:23,300 and a need to not only reintroduce, it to our radio 124 00:08:23,300 --> 00:08:26,000 audience reintroduce, it to our church, but like we stopped 125 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,900 everything, watch the video last week and then assigned the book 126 00:08:30,100 --> 00:08:34,200 and the first First three chapters of the book were 127 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:35,799 challenging. Yes, it was. 128 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,400 They were challenging very challenging and, you know, I 129 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,900 just listening to the comment and keep in mind that our staff 130 00:08:43,900 --> 00:08:49,600 is pretty diverse but we come from different parts of the 131 00:08:49,608 --> 00:08:54,600 country and we were raised differently and I might myself 132 00:08:54,700 --> 00:08:58,600 grew up in Chicago. My dad passed away, early my 133 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:00,700 mother raised. Five children we go. 134 00:09:00,900 --> 00:09:06,100 Up in what is considered the bricks the projects and we were 135 00:09:06,100 --> 00:09:11,200 raised to do right? We were raised by a mother that 136 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:16,400 was Christian and she wouldn't take she wouldn't she wouldn't 137 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:21,200 put up with any mess and so she was my disciplinarian and she 138 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:27,400 taught me to respect all people and so I doing a discussion I 139 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:32,100 just kind of went back and remember At her and just two 140 00:09:32,100 --> 00:09:37,300 people who were in my life, that just kept me on, on this road. 141 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:43,500 Keep in mind that I saw the riots in the 60s, as a little 142 00:09:43,500 --> 00:09:50,900 boy, when MLK and Kennedy were assassinated and as a result and 143 00:09:50,900 --> 00:09:53,200 growing up to be a man and a father right now. 144 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:59,500 And a retired person I never thought that we would have to 145 00:09:59,500 --> 00:10:04,800 visit anything. Regarding race right now. 146 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,400 I always thought that things would get better and better, but 147 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:12,000 now in 2020, we find ourselves with a reed discussion and 148 00:10:12,900 --> 00:10:17,000 reviewing what happened, 25 30, 40 years ago. 149 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,300 So this morning is we're going through your, you obviously, 150 00:10:20,300 --> 00:10:26,000 read ahead you're prepared for our time where you were, you 151 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,400 were you nervous knowing that we were going to go over these 152 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:31,600 chapters? Did you anticipate was there a 153 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,100 nervousness about Out today or did. 154 00:10:34,100 --> 00:10:37,600 Was it spontaneous where you just like, you don't want, I 155 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:39,600 don't what? Tell me how you felt. 156 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,200 Like, I don't think I know you. So, I don't think I'm not, I 157 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,100 don't want to put words in your thought, in your mouth. 158 00:10:46,100 --> 00:10:49,000 That says, I didn't want to participate, because I know that 159 00:10:49,100 --> 00:10:52,700 you do want to participate and you did participate, but at the 160 00:10:52,700 --> 00:10:56,200 end, you gave us a summary, and then you shared exhortation and 161 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,800 encouragement with us. But during that time, like, did 162 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:01,100 you come nervous? Did you come concern? 163 00:11:01,100 --> 00:11:04,100 You saw the questions that were Sent out by Keegan. 164 00:11:04,100 --> 00:11:07,500 Yes. How did you prepare to come to 165 00:11:07,500 --> 00:11:09,200 know that? You're going to be in a room 166 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,100 predominantly of non-black people? 167 00:11:11,100 --> 00:11:13,100 I mean, there's there's four right know? 168 00:11:13,100 --> 00:11:17,600 There's there's three in the room Keegan LED Morgan. 169 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:22,000 You, I'll take you into in, in person. 170 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,300 If we broaden it to ya. Personal color, non-white, 171 00:11:25,300 --> 00:11:28,100 there's Hispanics in there. There's Mexican like so. 172 00:11:28,300 --> 00:11:31,700 So how did you anticipate? Did you have any anticipation of 173 00:11:31,700 --> 00:11:33,100 walking into to think? Got it? 174 00:11:33,100 --> 00:11:36,400 I didn't think about it. I had a very good time of prayer 175 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:42,800 and and devotion of this morning and I usually take off for a 176 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,800 ride on my bike before I come to staff meetings on Wednesday but 177 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:50,700 for some reason, I was compelled to just stay and complete my 178 00:11:50,700 --> 00:11:55,700 time of devotions and prayer. And so when I walked into, The 179 00:11:55,700 --> 00:12:01,000 room with everyone else. I felt great until we started 180 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,700 discussing the subject at hand chapters 1 and 2. 181 00:12:05,700 --> 00:12:13,500 And kicking did a great job II just felt torn because I felt 182 00:12:13,500 --> 00:12:19,300 that there were people among the staff that were interesting. 183 00:12:19,700 --> 00:12:25,500 They were interested in the topic but I felt that They 184 00:12:25,500 --> 00:12:29,600 didn't really know my heart and I wondered if they knew Keegan's 185 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:35,300 hard and him explaining about his mom being white, is that 186 00:12:35,300 --> 00:12:38,500 being black and me been in an interracial relationship and 187 00:12:38,500 --> 00:12:44,000 raising two sons from a mom who was writing me being 188 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:48,900 African-American. I wanted my brothers and sisters 189 00:12:48,900 --> 00:12:50,800 in the room to come into my life. 190 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:56,100 And I was a little leery that the topics in I'm to be just 191 00:12:56,300 --> 00:12:59,500 frosting on the cake. That makes sense. 192 00:13:00,100 --> 00:13:02,400 Tell me what frosting on the cake means like, light out. 193 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,200 Like we didn't go deep. Well, some did some people. 194 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:06,800 Some people went deep. Yeah. 195 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,800 But it seemed like that. People were afraid to ask 196 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:14,800 questions and so my my encouragement was is to in order 197 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,600 to get to the problem. That alcohol sin. 198 00:13:19,500 --> 00:13:25,200 Yeah, such as what is happening right now, you need to know my 199 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,700 heart and I need to know your heart and there's going to be 200 00:13:27,700 --> 00:13:32,600 some tea. Yes, because there's Pain still, 201 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:39,100 from hundreds of years, of lack of reconciliation Solomon. 202 00:13:39,100 --> 00:13:41,700 I'm, I want to have a couple of things on my mind, I want to 203 00:13:41,708 --> 00:13:46,000 talk with you about, but I want to stick on this because this 204 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:50,800 idea that their pain, still of hundreds of years of racism. 205 00:13:51,700 --> 00:13:55,500 You're not 100 years old, right? So you didn't experience it in 206 00:13:55,500 --> 00:13:58,200 the hundreds of years. So I've been receiving. 207 00:13:59,100 --> 00:14:03,900 A few emails that say or even people tell me personally, that 208 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,000 there is no such thing as systemic racism. 209 00:14:08,900 --> 00:14:13,000 There is no such thing as why would we could be concerned 210 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,800 about 100 years ago? And that's what, that's what, 211 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:17,700 triggered it. Because somebody actually, you 212 00:14:17,700 --> 00:14:21,600 know, this idea of hundreds of years of racism doesn't exist, 213 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:26,400 and that's what they say and, and, you know it it frustrates 214 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:30,900 me but it has In emotional response, you have an emotional 215 00:14:30,900 --> 00:14:35,500 response because you you associate the pain, not of 216 00:14:35,500 --> 00:14:37,900 hundreds of years but your own personal pain. 217 00:14:38,700 --> 00:14:41,600 You was that a statement that you were sharing that this, this 218 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,200 is your own personal pain in the room, the context was in the 219 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:46,900 room this morning. Yes. 220 00:14:47,100 --> 00:14:50,700 And and so speak to that. Like so somebody's, we're not 221 00:14:50,700 --> 00:14:53,400 going to take that call but it says somebody wanted to call and 222 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,200 say, I don't believe there's there's hundreds of years of 223 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:58,300 racism. What, how would you respond? 224 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:04,600 And in the context of your life. I I thought of a story when I 225 00:15:04,608 --> 00:15:07,600 was in college and I was very militant. 226 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,400 And called myself a Christian. I learned. 227 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:17,000 I'm not going to say that. I hate it, white people, but I 228 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:21,000 never knew it was only a few people that have reached out to 229 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,000 me in my life. So if my my world was completely 230 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:31,000 dark skin that people, but I remember trying to pry into the 231 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,500 history of my grandmother, who's gone on to be with the Lord 232 00:15:34,500 --> 00:15:39,100 who's a Christian lady. And she would never share any 233 00:15:39,100 --> 00:15:41,700 stories with me. But one day finally, she sailed 234 00:15:41,700 --> 00:15:45,100 a story with me that I'm, she was in the state of Mississippi 235 00:15:45,100 --> 00:15:51,000 and they were children early 1900s and they were, they were 236 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:58,100 sharecroppers at that time and there were four or five kids out 237 00:15:58,100 --> 00:16:03,200 in the yards and they were playing and the man who who 238 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,600 owned the land was in the vicinity. 239 00:16:07,100 --> 00:16:13,700 And then another man came up. Suddenly two of the kids that 240 00:16:13,700 --> 00:16:15,600 have been planned were taken away. 241 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:20,100 And that's when she told me that those two kids who were 242 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:30,500 relatives or hers were sold and so I she warned me not to get 243 00:16:30,500 --> 00:16:37,100 angry because God forgave that and that was the beginning of 244 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:42,100 see being planted in my heart. But that goes back into Like the 245 00:16:42,100 --> 00:16:43,500 1900s. Yes. 246 00:16:43,700 --> 00:16:47,100 And it gets it just continues. You know, when Bobby and I moved 247 00:16:47,100 --> 00:16:51,100 here as a young couple, I remember a gentleman, there's 248 00:16:51,100 --> 00:16:55,100 just kind of took us under his wing and he seen us as 249 00:16:55,100 --> 00:16:57,100 interracial couple young interracial couple. 250 00:16:57,100 --> 00:17:03,200 He shared that he and his wife had been together as well. 251 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:07,800 Interracial, couple back in the Midwest, and it got to a point 252 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,200 that he was harassed, so much that he carried his marriage. 253 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,500 License in the car with his driver's license to prove that 254 00:17:15,500 --> 00:17:19,099 this was his wife. And so he, he was just preparing 255 00:17:19,099 --> 00:17:23,000 me of the type of relationship that I may have. 256 00:17:23,700 --> 00:17:25,599 It never turned out to be like that. 257 00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:30,000 And just by God's grace, he always sheltered us from 258 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,700 anything like that, right there. Yeah, well, I've always 259 00:17:33,700 --> 00:17:36,800 appreciated you through the years, where when you do, when 260 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:40,100 you do give Insight on something, whatever the topic 261 00:17:40,100 --> 00:17:43,400 is, you're a storyteller. Our and I don't mean fictional, 262 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:47,600 I mean you have a real story to identify how you explain what 263 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:49,400 you're feeling, what you're going through at the time. 264 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,700 And and I had mentioned, you know, very carefully. 265 00:17:52,700 --> 00:17:56,900 Try to put my words in writing so that I could be careful of 266 00:17:56,900 --> 00:17:58,900 what I said. But I made this comment 267 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:04,000 regarding racism and I said, foremost, racism is not just a 268 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:09,200 term for them and it's not just a political construct, its pain. 269 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,000 It's the looks that they've received. 270 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,900 It's Ben, how they've treated it, opens up Old Wounds and 271 00:18:14,900 --> 00:18:19,400 fears and real-life stings. And now learning from you today, 272 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:24,400 I could also write to that and then a generational actions that 273 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,300 have happened throughout the generations, when you speak of 274 00:18:27,300 --> 00:18:29,300 your grandmother or your great-grandmother. 275 00:18:29,500 --> 00:18:33,700 Like this is an abstract, you're not reading from a and as 276 00:18:33,700 --> 00:18:36,500 cyclopedia or Google, this is your family. 277 00:18:36,700 --> 00:18:41,300 This is your bloodline that is carried to what you, you you. 278 00:18:41,500 --> 00:18:44,700 Hear that story is if we were all there with you and none of 279 00:18:44,700 --> 00:18:47,400 us were there we get it? Firsthand. 280 00:18:47,700 --> 00:18:50,100 Yes. Can I share a story from the 281 00:18:50,100 --> 00:18:52,400 first time? We had a real meaningful talk in 282 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,800 the school because I've learned a lot from, from a vent. 283 00:18:55,900 --> 00:18:58,900 I mean, I think that God brings people into your life that you 284 00:18:59,100 --> 00:19:01,500 can learn from that you can grow from. 285 00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:04,900 And when I moved here from California, you know, I think 286 00:19:04,900 --> 00:19:08,300 it's important in the, in the line of these conversations to 287 00:19:08,700 --> 00:19:10,100 that. I haven't mentioned this yet, 288 00:19:10,100 --> 00:19:14,700 but before I was Was born again. I was extremely racist, toward 289 00:19:14,700 --> 00:19:19,400 anybody, except me. And there was no real reason for 290 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,400 that, my parents weren't like that. 291 00:19:21,500 --> 00:19:25,900 I wasn't raised that way. I don't know how to pin it. 292 00:19:25,900 --> 00:19:31,300 Except that this sense of superiority or this sense of 293 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,100 just like wanting to be a notch above people and it didn't 294 00:19:36,100 --> 00:19:39,000 matter. And what what people group it 295 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:43,100 was I'm a day. I made a conscious decision 296 00:19:43,100 --> 00:19:45,700 throughout my whole life just to think I was better than people, 297 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:47,900 which is like, you had mentioned this morning. 298 00:19:47,900 --> 00:19:52,400 It's like Pride, there's this essence of Pride, and I grew up 299 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:57,700 in a predominantly Hispanic Community, Mexican all around. 300 00:19:58,300 --> 00:20:02,800 And, and the irony of that is that God would allow me to fall 301 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:07,400 in love with a Mexican girl to have children with her end up 302 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,700 being married to her and being born again. 303 00:20:10,700 --> 00:20:15,200 So that If God would show me from the inside out, the value 304 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:18,900 of a human soul and and and be able to Value people for who 305 00:20:18,900 --> 00:20:21,200 they are. So I come to Colorado, I don't 306 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,300 know how to sew. I'm a rookie as a pastor. 307 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:25,300 Don't know anything about pastoring. 308 00:20:25,300 --> 00:20:28,400 And and don't really, I didn't come to Colorado. 309 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:32,700 Intending to plant, a white church, black church and Mexican 310 00:20:32,700 --> 00:20:36,600 church. Any kind of race, I didn't have 311 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,500 that on my mind at all. I just wanted to come and 312 00:20:39,500 --> 00:20:41,200 hopefully people would come and here. 313 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,300 Me, teach a Bible study and I didn't have that in the radar, 314 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:49,500 but God brought us to Aurora and Aurora is a town, very similar, 315 00:20:49,500 --> 00:20:52,600 where I grew up very diverse, it's much more diverse. 316 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:57,800 Now 20 years ago than 15 when I first moved here and it reminded 317 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,400 me a lot of home. It was a bigger city, a lot of 318 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:05,300 different languages and looks it was it was great but I didn't 319 00:21:05,300 --> 00:21:09,700 have still, I didn't have any of that on my mind and then then 320 00:21:09,700 --> 00:21:13,000 you came through. You came to visit at the school 321 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,500 and I don't and I don't remember exactly how we ended up talking, 322 00:21:17,300 --> 00:21:19,100 but I do remember talking to you. 323 00:21:19,100 --> 00:21:23,600 And I remember this story, like it was yesterday and you had 324 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:27,000 described to me how you were thinking about, not coming back, 325 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:28,500 you don't want to come back to the church. 326 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,700 And and I said why? Because in my mind, they're only 327 00:21:32,700 --> 00:21:36,000 a couple reasons. One its, a dirty school and who 328 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:40,600 wants to come and sit on these chairs, the music, maybe that 329 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,800 was too low. Loud because we the room, maybe 330 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,200 the teaching. But that's about it. 331 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:50,200 That was my, my threshold at that time, like, well, if you 332 00:21:50,208 --> 00:21:52,000 don't want to come back to the church, you don't like to teach, 333 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:53,900 you know, like the music. You don't like the room. 334 00:21:54,500 --> 00:21:56,600 I don't, I can't think of him really anything else. 335 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,000 And and you offered something to me, that I'd never heard before 336 00:22:00,300 --> 00:22:02,800 and you said something along these lines, and you can correct 337 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,100 me if I'm wrong. But you said something along 338 00:22:05,100 --> 00:22:10,100 these lines, Pastor, Ed, I walked in, I looked around, I 339 00:22:10,100 --> 00:22:11,800 didn't see anybody. Like me. 340 00:22:12,300 --> 00:22:15,500 And I decided that this is probably not the church for me 341 00:22:15,900 --> 00:22:18,500 and I asked you, what does that mean? 342 00:22:18,500 --> 00:22:22,100 And he said, I looked around and I didn't see any black people in 343 00:22:22,100 --> 00:22:27,200 this room and that was something that was a Brand New Concept to 344 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,100 me. And then I asked you a, why is 345 00:22:29,100 --> 00:22:31,100 that important to you? So I want to ask you that for 346 00:22:31,100 --> 00:22:35,500 people listening in you coming into a room and assessing that 347 00:22:35,500 --> 00:22:36,400 room. You're a Believer. 348 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:37,800 You love. Jesus Christ. 349 00:22:37,900 --> 00:22:41,900 You didn't come with your wife. It was just you and And, and so, 350 00:22:41,900 --> 00:22:46,300 you were looking around and assessing the group and and I 351 00:22:46,300 --> 00:22:48,800 didn't view it as judgmental. At all, you were looking for a 352 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,500 place for home, you heard me on the radio, heard the teaching on 353 00:22:51,500 --> 00:22:55,600 the radio and now you're coming to see well, I don't know, 354 00:22:55,900 --> 00:22:58,400 doesn't sound like the radio, but can you help people 355 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,200 understand what it was like? And what it is like for someone 356 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,300 to walk in and assess the room and see that? 357 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,600 Yeah, back in the day, back in the days of the school, I had 358 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,700 belong to a diverse church that I was very comfortable. 359 00:23:10,700 --> 00:23:13,700 When I Serving but mullet things that brought me to Calvary 360 00:23:13,700 --> 00:23:18,900 Church Cavalry at the time was passed away, its teaching, and I 361 00:23:18,900 --> 00:23:22,100 just fell in love with expository teaching verse by 362 00:23:22,100 --> 00:23:26,100 verse and it was a place that I needed to be. 363 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,900 I was apprehensive about Fellowship in the in a 364 00:23:29,900 --> 00:23:34,900 congregation that was majority II. 365 00:23:34,900 --> 00:23:41,700 Hate to use the term white. It was majority Anglo I did not 366 00:23:41,700 --> 00:23:45,800 feel comfortable and and although there were people who 367 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:51,000 greeted me, I just didn't feel in my heart that I was welcome 368 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,400 unless it was one-on-one such as wood. 369 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:58,300 Pastor Ed or Ron Rempel, right? Just some of the guys that we 370 00:23:58,900 --> 00:24:00,800 that I met. When I first got here that 371 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:05,000 reached out to me, and I had to fight against that right there, 372 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:09,800 because if I was a Believer, right? 373 00:24:09,900 --> 00:24:14,700 And I stood by the And to love my brothers. 374 00:24:16,100 --> 00:24:19,400 All right, who I see every day, if I'm going to, if I'm going to 375 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,900 say that and said, I love God, who have never seen and hate my 376 00:24:23,900 --> 00:24:27,000 brothers, who I'm with, then something was wrong with my 377 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,100 heart. And so, I needed to have at hard 378 00:24:30,300 --> 00:24:34,000 change as well. And so, as you were, when you 379 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:38,000 before you met anyone before they had the greeting, what was 380 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:39,400 it? Why was, why would it be 381 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:43,500 important for you from walking in that other black people would 382 00:24:43,500 --> 00:24:44,700 be in the church? Why would it be? 383 00:24:44,700 --> 00:24:47,000 Why was it, why? Is it important? 384 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,300 I mean, it's still important. Yes, you're still important 385 00:24:50,300 --> 00:24:54,600 because I believe that God's house should be the first. 386 00:24:54,700 --> 00:24:58,900 Yeah, it's true. And we've heard it before. 387 00:24:58,900 --> 00:25:02,100 I've heard it from Pastor that I've heard from Pastor, Al 388 00:25:02,100 --> 00:25:06,700 Pittman that the most segregated always Sunday and that was 389 00:25:06,700 --> 00:25:10,800 something that growing up and even being a part of Calvary 390 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,400 Church that has always been on my heart that this church would 391 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,200 be a church. Church for all people. 392 00:25:17,300 --> 00:25:18,800 And I still feel like that today. 393 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,800 Yes. And and so looking around was 394 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:26,900 there was Their Fear was their apprehension that I'd be 395 00:25:26,900 --> 00:25:31,700 accepted judge because I have a white, my have a white wife, 396 00:25:31,700 --> 00:25:34,600 it's interracial marriage where any of those things on your mind 397 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,600 or is those afterthoughts? I have two dogs. 398 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:43,200 Yeah, after dogs, I had I had lived in Montana, play, 399 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:47,800 basketball, and Montana, and, you know, just running away from 400 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,600 The dangers of the city had a scholarship to play ball. 401 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,400 So I was used to being in an environment. 402 00:25:54,408 --> 00:25:58,400 But after leaving their, I didn't want to be an environment 403 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,400 such as that anymore. I just wanted to be in a healthy 404 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,000 environment and when I went to church, I wanted to be in a 405 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:10,400 healthy spiritual Sanctuary where there was all people and 406 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:16,000 mind you that when I would come into settings like that, you 407 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:20,500 could feel the eyes that would Would settle on you. 408 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,900 That wasn't Eyes Of Love if I could say that. 409 00:26:23,900 --> 00:26:27,900 Yeah. And you I don't know that I've 410 00:26:27,900 --> 00:26:31,800 ever recognized that in my if in somebody doing that toward me 411 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,500 but you feel that. Oh yeah you can feel that. 412 00:26:34,700 --> 00:26:36,600 Yeah. Have you ever have the Lord ever 413 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,700 LED? You to have a conversation with 414 00:26:38,900 --> 00:26:41,600 with someone that might you might have made eye contact with 415 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,100 and there or or do you just let that go? 416 00:26:44,900 --> 00:26:47,900 I learned to let it go. How does that affect you? 417 00:26:48,100 --> 00:26:52,500 Like the so I expected that answer from you and knowing your 418 00:26:52,500 --> 00:26:54,800 personality, you're going to take it to the Lord, you're 419 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:56,900 going to pray, but that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. 420 00:26:56,900 --> 00:26:59,100 Like how does it? How does that affect you? 421 00:27:00,100 --> 00:27:04,500 It affected me this morning. You know, that was part of what 422 00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:07,700 we're talking about years ago that came out. 423 00:27:07,700 --> 00:27:11,800 Yeah. Today it's kind of snuck up on 424 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:16,000 me and appeared out of nowhere and here I am with my my 425 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,100 brothers and sisters in Christ in the room and all of a sudden. 426 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:24,200 I revisit that that time. And in here, here's a van again, 427 00:27:24,500 --> 00:27:29,400 discussing something that that was painful, that was hurtful 428 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,300 something that in the beginning, when I talked about my 429 00:27:33,300 --> 00:27:37,700 grandmother and yes, all of that, which I thought would be 430 00:27:37,700 --> 00:27:39,600 over and that be a time of healing. 431 00:27:40,300 --> 00:27:43,200 The wound was still open. Did we're going to come up on 432 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,300 our first break? That's how fast this show goes. 433 00:27:46,300 --> 00:27:51,700 And so with before we get to the break though, I think Do you do 434 00:27:51,700 --> 00:27:54,800 you think we should be talking about these things? 435 00:27:55,400 --> 00:28:00,500 I certainly do, I certainly do it because it needs to be 436 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,800 brought out in the open and keep in mind guys, it's from a 437 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:10,200 Christian perspective, but I believe that We should be 438 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,600 leaders and seeking healing for what is happening right now. 439 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,100 So I'm sorry. I walk into that room today and 440 00:28:17,100 --> 00:28:19,800 I say, okay? And we'll wait till the second 441 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,200 half to two to go over question, and number two, the Keegan gave 442 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,500 us today. Wow, but I go walk into the room 443 00:28:26,500 --> 00:28:29,400 today thinking. I've got a lot to learn and I'm 444 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:30,700 ready. I'm ready to listen. 445 00:28:30,700 --> 00:28:34,200 I'm ready to hear and I think you walk into but you have 446 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,000 something else you like like I don't know that I would have 447 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,500 anticipated that this. This that this morning would 448 00:28:39,508 --> 00:28:45,300 hope I saw this morning as a leader and asking all of us to 449 00:28:45,300 --> 00:28:47,300 cooperate in all of us to go through this. 450 00:28:47,300 --> 00:28:50,100 And all the on come, I anticipated a very positive. 451 00:28:50,100 --> 00:28:53,900 I did not in any way. Think that it would open Old 452 00:28:53,900 --> 00:28:56,700 Wounds for people. It didn't cross my mind at all. 453 00:28:56,900 --> 00:29:00,800 So that's something we're going to talk about that because you 454 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:05,700 hear the music, we're coming up on our only break in studios 455 00:29:05,700 --> 00:29:08,600 Pastor. Ay vant Ramsey, he is a part of 456 00:29:08,608 --> 00:29:12,000 Of the team here we are talking racial tensions and we are 457 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,900 learning together and I'm glad that you joined us. 458 00:29:14,900 --> 00:29:16,900 We'll be right back on Calvary life. 459 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,300 Hey, welcome back to the second half of today's program. 460 00:29:24,300 --> 00:29:26,500 It is Calvary live. My name is Ed Taylor. 461 00:29:26,900 --> 00:29:29,400 If you have any questions for us, you've been with us. 462 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,500 I invite you to give us a call. We are taking questions and, and 463 00:29:33,500 --> 00:29:34,700 what we're not doing. We're not going to take 464 00:29:34,700 --> 00:29:37,300 questions to argue or we're not taking those sky. 465 00:29:37,300 --> 00:29:40,300 But if you have a real genuine question for our guest today, 466 00:29:40,300 --> 00:29:46,200 Pastor event Ramsey, I want you to call us at 30 3690 3000, you 467 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,100 know, we kind of get caught up in The in the conversation and 468 00:29:50,100 --> 00:29:54,600 the time goes by and and we met you know we get caught up in 469 00:29:54,600 --> 00:30:00,900 everything that we're talking about but when if you have a 470 00:30:00,900 --> 00:30:04,400 question we would love to hear it. 471 00:30:04,500 --> 00:30:08,500 I'm gonna I have a quick texting question. 472 00:30:08,500 --> 00:30:12,300 Maybe I missed it in the intro but can you give a definition of 473 00:30:12,300 --> 00:30:15,900 systemic racism? Yeah, I would, I would say and 474 00:30:15,900 --> 00:30:20,100 not a non-professional. A definition that systemic 475 00:30:20,100 --> 00:30:26,800 racism is a pattern of racism over time, that becomes 476 00:30:26,900 --> 00:30:32,100 repetitive and obvious. And so, that's a general. 477 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,000 Have you ever thought Avon? I know, it's kind of a on the 478 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,200 spot question, but have you ever thought of when you hear the 479 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,500 phrase systemic racism, what it means to you. 480 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:48,000 I know to be honest with, you know I because it because racism 481 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:49,800 is enough for you. Yeah you don't need the worst. 482 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:51,600 Systemic would that be fair to say? 483 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:57,100 I don't I don't it's like you know how things happen like like 484 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:03,000 c19, you know, it's just a new phrase of something that is 485 00:31:03,100 --> 00:31:05,700 another tool of the enemy. Yeah. 486 00:31:05,700 --> 00:31:09,200 Division. And yeah and subjugation but I 487 00:31:09,208 --> 00:31:11,600 think that there are other definitions that We could get 488 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,000 caught up in the in the political sociological view of 489 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,200 it. But the reality is that over 490 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:24,200 time a program programmatic system, you know, a repetitive 491 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:30,900 action of racism would be how I would Define it and you know we 492 00:31:30,900 --> 00:31:33,800 with social media and everything you can talk about these things. 493 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,800 Even on radio could talk about these things but over the last 494 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:42,600 few weeks, I've literally been in the room with Or on the phone 495 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:51,100 with men that experience a regular ongoing racism in their 496 00:31:51,100 --> 00:31:55,200 life because of the color of their skin and that what 497 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,900 weather, whatever kind of debates and you'd be interested 498 00:31:57,900 --> 00:32:00,100 in all the emails. I've been getting, but whatever 499 00:32:00,100 --> 00:32:03,800 you want to debate you. It's impossible to sit across 500 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,400 the table from someone and say that. 501 00:32:07,300 --> 00:32:10,600 No, you have an experience that it's like, how could you 502 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,100 possibly Do that and I think that's the important thing for 503 00:32:14,100 --> 00:32:16,300 us and eight. Pastor Avon already is mentioned 504 00:32:16,300 --> 00:32:17,700 it. Like we've got a weird the 505 00:32:17,700 --> 00:32:20,100 Church of Jesus Christ. We've got to take this from a 506 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:26,000 Biblical spiritual approach and Keegan this morning shared out 507 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,600 of First Corinthians 9 from the New Living Translation. 508 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:34,600 We usually memorized it from the new King James where we you know 509 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,900 Paul says I become all things to all men that I might win some 510 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,700 but when you read it from the New Living Translation, It I 511 00:32:42,700 --> 00:32:46,400 thought man. They absolutely nailed this one. 512 00:32:47,100 --> 00:32:51,100 When they say let me get to it here. 513 00:32:51,100 --> 00:32:55,000 Its first Corinthians 9, none of these things. 514 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,400 And let me get here, I'm still in the new King James that's why 515 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,700 I can't find it. Let me click the ER I'm sorry be 516 00:33:02,700 --> 00:33:08,100 patient with me. He says when I am its first 517 00:33:08,100 --> 00:33:12,600 Corinthians 9 22, when I am with those who Our week, I share 518 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:17,100 their weakness for, I want to bring the week to Christ and 519 00:33:17,100 --> 00:33:23,300 yes, I try to find common ground with everyone doing everything. 520 00:33:23,300 --> 00:33:26,900 I can to save some. I do everything to spread the 521 00:33:26,900 --> 00:33:29,000 good news and share its blessings. 522 00:33:29,300 --> 00:33:32,600 I like that phrase. I try to find common ground with 523 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,700 everyone and I would imagine that. 524 00:33:35,700 --> 00:33:39,400 It's even more painful for someone that has experienced 525 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:43,600 racism to have it dismissed. And just as if, you know what 526 00:33:44,900 --> 00:33:47,900 I've experienced it to, you know, that's a big response I've 527 00:33:47,900 --> 00:33:50,900 experienced it too. Well, then that would make you 528 00:33:50,900 --> 00:33:55,200 even more careful to step into another person's shoes if you've 529 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,600 experienced it too, in a different category, a different, 530 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,900 you know, I've, I've been discriminated against to well 531 00:34:01,900 --> 00:34:06,100 that if that's truly, if that's accurate, then that would make 532 00:34:06,100 --> 00:34:11,000 you even more equipped to step into a Vance life to step in 533 00:34:11,199 --> 00:34:14,100 John's life to step into someone's life that experienced 534 00:34:14,300 --> 00:34:19,500 regular ongoing different treatment partiality. 535 00:34:19,500 --> 00:34:22,199 As we, we talked a lot of passages of scripture this 536 00:34:22,199 --> 00:34:25,900 morning showing preference partiality, giving preference to 537 00:34:25,900 --> 00:34:30,600 the rich into the poor. Giving preference to some people 538 00:34:30,699 --> 00:34:32,300 while treating other people poorly. 539 00:34:34,100 --> 00:34:38,000 And so let's go back a vamp. Yes, let's go back to this 540 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,600 morning. Your I'm in this Were in the 541 00:34:41,607 --> 00:34:43,100 conversation so it's just me and you. 542 00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:46,600 Yes, I'm walking in and and I'm like, okay, this is going to be 543 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:48,100 different. We haven't done anything like 544 00:34:48,100 --> 00:34:53,300 this before. We haven't tackled a topic like 545 00:34:53,300 --> 00:34:56,600 racism before and then allowed another author to walk us 546 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,200 through. So I'm anticipating I'm, I've 547 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,200 read the, I've read those chapters, I'm ready, I've looked 548 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,900 at the questions and I'm walking in pretty eager. 549 00:35:05,100 --> 00:35:08,600 I'm pretty eager to see and then and then how we set it up where 550 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,800 I'm not the one doing this. As I playing all the pastor's 551 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:12,400 were all doing it together. Yes. 552 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,000 And so I'm just, I'm encouraged. This is a new. 553 00:35:15,100 --> 00:35:17,500 This is a first for us. Twenty years as a church. 554 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,400 We're tackling this, we're going to step into it. 555 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,700 We're going to learn and I'm eager to learn. 556 00:35:21,900 --> 00:35:26,400 You had great DeVos, everything was well, you walked in, and you 557 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:31,300 walked in a positive, ready in your own shoes, in your own 558 00:35:31,300 --> 00:35:33,900 skin, you're ready and then something happened. 559 00:35:34,300 --> 00:35:37,400 Do you remember, what, what the tide turned that? 560 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:40,400 I don't even wear, you discouraged. 561 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,200 Like what? And I think, I think I felt 562 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:49,900 discouraged. It's, I don't know. 563 00:35:49,900 --> 00:35:55,700 I Revisiting revisiting his hard-on, right? 564 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,700 As I was talking to you during the break, I wanted to share a 565 00:35:59,700 --> 00:36:02,900 story with you Kay. That happened last year. 566 00:36:02,900 --> 00:36:08,300 I was at our home, I live in Denver, my wife and I and I was 567 00:36:08,300 --> 00:36:12,400 cleaning out, cleaning a window to put an air conditioner in the 568 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,700 window. And a gentleman that was 569 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,700 delivering Community. Newspapers was walking by as I 570 00:36:19,700 --> 00:36:23,300 was cleaning windows and and I noticed them out corner of my 571 00:36:23,300 --> 00:36:26,500 eye, but I didn't take any, I didn't think anything of it and 572 00:36:27,100 --> 00:36:29,700 he picked up his phone and made a phone call. 573 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:35,800 And, and just kind of stayed looking at me while I'm cleaning 574 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,700 the window and was talking to someone. 575 00:36:39,100 --> 00:36:43,400 And so, I assumed that he was talking to someone about me 576 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,300 about 5 or 10 minutes later, the police stopped at my door and 577 00:36:49,700 --> 00:36:54,300 Someone had called. The police on me for being in my 578 00:36:54,300 --> 00:36:59,400 house because they thought it was a potential burglary that 579 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:03,800 had a profound effect upon my heart because I was hurt. 580 00:37:05,500 --> 00:37:11,700 I cried it was embarrassing that I had to show my license and 581 00:37:11,700 --> 00:37:15,100 mail to Ana police officer at my door. 582 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:20,500 But in that staff meeting this morning, I Revisited that 583 00:37:20,500 --> 00:37:26,600 feeling Again and I didn't care to and that feeling is real. 584 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,900 Yeah, this is not some abstract we talked about that during the 585 00:37:30,900 --> 00:37:33,600 break. This is not some abstract 586 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:38,500 thought of theory or thinking about what other people with 587 00:37:38,500 --> 00:37:43,100 this is where you live and we're thinking how many years ago did 588 00:37:43,100 --> 00:37:48,600 that happen last year last year? So 2019, you, you pay the 589 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,700 mortgage on that. I remember when we talked, Not 590 00:37:51,700 --> 00:37:54,100 only do you pay the mortgage, but you had to put that boiler 591 00:37:54,100 --> 00:37:58,200 in that wasn't cheap. Like this is your house, is your 592 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,300 neighborhood? I've been there, I've been at 593 00:38:00,300 --> 00:38:02,400 your house. I've been in that neighborhood 594 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:07,400 and and you have every right to clean your window and put an air 595 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,700 conditioning in but something with. 596 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:14,600 And and I want I'm going to, I'm going to think he didn't come to 597 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:18,300 ask, you know, he didn't come to engage you. 598 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,900 He made a snap judgment based upon On your color of your skin. 599 00:38:22,900 --> 00:38:24,400 Yes. And the fact that you were at a 600 00:38:24,408 --> 00:38:28,400 window and got hurt. Yeah, the flip side of that. 601 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,200 Is that I had to forgive that, man. 602 00:38:30,300 --> 00:38:37,000 Yeah, because I started out. My Flesh wanted to confront him 603 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:44,200 physically but my testimony until I wanted to hold 604 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:50,000 steadfast. Compelled me to forgive him. 605 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,400 Did he stick around to see if the cops showed up? 606 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:53,700 No? Okay, no. 607 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,800 But but while you were at the window, you saw him out of the 608 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,100 corner of your eye and you could see that that there was 609 00:39:01,100 --> 00:39:03,000 something going on with them and you. 610 00:39:03,100 --> 00:39:11,300 Yeah, you know it's like I share with you guys when I'm cautious 611 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:17,000 as a as a, I'm in my 60 guys and I don't feel that it's 612 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,900 necessary. To think that I'm a threat, a 613 00:39:20,900 --> 00:39:23,900 threat walking down the street of my neighborhoods or walking 614 00:39:23,900 --> 00:39:27,100 anywhere. And I still feel like that and 615 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:36,000 just being confronted at my age or or for any other man, because 616 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,900 of who he is and because of his color is something that that has 617 00:39:40,900 --> 00:39:43,500 to be dealt with. And I believe it has to come 618 00:39:43,500 --> 00:39:47,200 from our hearts as far as loving God. 619 00:39:47,900 --> 00:39:50,900 That's the The only way that we're going to confront this 620 00:39:50,900 --> 00:39:54,100 situation that we're talking about right here and are you 621 00:39:54,100 --> 00:39:57,500 willing to accept the gospel? Yeah, I think that part of the 622 00:39:57,500 --> 00:40:03,200 conversation this morning to was that we need to be willing to be 623 00:40:03,500 --> 00:40:06,600 on our not. We need to be careful, not to be 624 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:10,300 offended because at offense, then we become defensive. 625 00:40:10,300 --> 00:40:13,000 And then we, you know, when we, when we were offended by 626 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,900 something that's actually a fender bull, it takes us out of 627 00:40:15,900 --> 00:40:21,200 the spirit and into the flesh. And and it goes, It goes both 628 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,600 ways on this topic, you know where we we may instead of 629 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,900 stopping and listening and engaging in conversation, we 630 00:40:28,900 --> 00:40:32,100 come to snap judgments and we make decisions where I'm not 631 00:40:32,100 --> 00:40:36,400 even valuing you as. And I like this phrase, like as 632 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:37,900 an image-bearer. Yes. 633 00:40:38,500 --> 00:40:44,000 And and then I also like what kind of Shifting to it's it's 634 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,400 impossible for me to look at you a van and not see that your 635 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:50,300 block, right? So it's Not however, sometimes 636 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:52,800 they'll be that they'll be someone that say, you know, I'm 637 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,900 color blind and I don't see color and what is Miles 638 00:40:55,900 --> 00:40:58,600 McPherson saying his book? He says, look when you do that, 639 00:40:58,700 --> 00:41:02,800 then what you're saying and and although although it's probably 640 00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,200 shared in such a way that's intended to be positive, but the 641 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,500 way that can be interpreted as Mi Pastor miles says, is like, 642 00:41:09,500 --> 00:41:12,600 when you say, you don't see my color, what you're saying is, 643 00:41:12,700 --> 00:41:17,800 you don't see me and who I am and what I carry in my in the 644 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:22,100 The life that I've lived in, also my Generations. 645 00:41:22,100 --> 00:41:24,700 Yes. Also on during the break, I 646 00:41:24,707 --> 00:41:27,500 wanted to add this because Pastor a van and I have been to 647 00:41:27,500 --> 00:41:29,600 Israel together and we have the same. 648 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:33,900 We have the same guide is named Ash Raga and Ash Raga is a very 649 00:41:33,900 --> 00:41:40,800 strong vibrant loud. If you didn't it, if you met him 650 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:44,400 for the first time you would say he's confident strong doesn't 651 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:48,200 have a fear in the world and things change. 652 00:41:48,300 --> 00:41:52,100 JH somewhere along somewhere along the tour 10-day to, or 653 00:41:52,100 --> 00:41:55,000 which draaga something will change. 654 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,900 When the topic comes up about, either the military or the 655 00:41:58,900 --> 00:42:00,200 Holocaust. Yes. 656 00:42:00,900 --> 00:42:04,800 And the Holocaust, whenever the topic of the Holocaust comes up 657 00:42:04,900 --> 00:42:08,900 in shrug has presents its own, he will turn from. 658 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,300 Its I've seen this happen, it doesn't always happen, but I 659 00:42:12,300 --> 00:42:18,200 will see him turn from a joker. Loud, dancer, goofy to crying. 660 00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,600 Tears coming out of his this grown, man. 661 00:42:20,700 --> 00:42:25,000 He's in his 70s and tears coming by coming through and it went, 662 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:26,900 one of the things you shared about reminding me of that, 663 00:42:26,900 --> 00:42:31,200 because when you felt pain, it goes back to today. 664 00:42:31,300 --> 00:42:34,300 It went back to a story of your grandmother that goes back to 665 00:42:34,300 --> 00:42:38,200 her child to all the way back and it reminded me of Chicago 666 00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:41,800 when it comes to the Holocaust because he has his grandparents 667 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:46,000 died in the Holocaust, they both died and so immediately, he 668 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,300 doesn't think of it as a political He doesn't think of it 669 00:42:49,300 --> 00:42:53,200 as anything that it's become, he thinks of it, you know, my I 670 00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:56,800 lost my family there and the many others that that suffered, 671 00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,300 he hurts with everyone else. And I think it's important that 672 00:43:00,300 --> 00:43:06,500 we recognize that there's a lot of pain to go around and if we 673 00:43:06,500 --> 00:43:09,600 just dismiss the pain then we're not going to have the 674 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:14,700 opportunity to be heard because that's our as as as image, 675 00:43:14,700 --> 00:43:20,100 bearers of God and carriers are the Or and ministers of 676 00:43:20,100 --> 00:43:24,400 reconciliation. If we are not heard, then we're 677 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,500 unable to fulfill the call of God Upon Our Lives. 678 00:43:27,900 --> 00:43:32,600 And if if you don't trust me, then you won't listen to me. 679 00:43:32,900 --> 00:43:36,900 And so to dismiss someone's pain to dismiss someone's feelings 680 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:42,000 and to replace it with some opinions, some post, or I've 681 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,500 seen a lot of people, you know, when you hear systemic racism, 682 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:47,800 I've seen a lot of people as well. 683 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,200 Here are the Facts. Here's the statistics. 684 00:43:50,700 --> 00:43:54,600 Well you know I'm not I'm not in any way minimizing what 685 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:58,200 statistics might mean, but statistics don't always tell the 686 00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:02,300 whole story and how many people does it take? 687 00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,100 You know, so I say, well, I'll just give you the stats. 688 00:44:05,100 --> 00:44:08,400 You think there's systemic racism event here are the facts? 689 00:44:08,700 --> 00:44:12,000 Well, I've just lost a van, I might throw a thousand numbers 690 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,600 out of them, but I forgot that I'm talking to a van and I and 691 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,100 we can't, we can't forget that. We're talking to John. 692 00:44:18,300 --> 00:44:20,800 A vamp bill or anyone else in our lives. 693 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,700 So that we might be heard with the gospel with the gospel. 694 00:44:24,700 --> 00:44:27,300 So let's go to Mark here in Aurora. 695 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:29,600 Hey Mark, welcome to the program. 696 00:44:32,300 --> 00:44:36,700 I wanted to say something to the white guys that are out there 697 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,300 who are thinking, you know what this is dumb, this doesn't 698 00:44:40,300 --> 00:44:42,200 happen. And you know what, that's where 699 00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,900 I was. I was in that that category 700 00:44:44,900 --> 00:44:50,300 because in my world, I didn't see any anything like that. 701 00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:55,600 Everything just looked normal to me until I finally had a chance. 702 00:44:55,600 --> 00:45:00,200 I had a good friend who was black and because of a promise 703 00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:04,300 Keepers have been about, Reconciliation, I've decided to 704 00:45:04,300 --> 00:45:06,800 ask him, what is it like to be black? 705 00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:14,200 He blow me away by there's a, I grew up out west, or I'm sorry 706 00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:19,000 out east a small little farming town called Columbus, right? 707 00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:22,400 Pasture Fields, farming, all that kind of stuff. 708 00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:27,000 I used to ride my bike down this road into Columbus hundreds of 709 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:32,400 times and never had an issue. He told me that when he he rode 710 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:37,200 his bike down that same road. He used pulled over by the 711 00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,400 police. The police would stop and ask 712 00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:41,100 him. What are you doing? 713 00:45:41,100 --> 00:45:46,600 And where you going? And I thought, you kidding me, I 714 00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,800 have never, I have never had that happen to me all the 715 00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,900 hundreds of times I've ever been down that road that has never 716 00:45:52,900 --> 00:45:56,100 happened to me as a kid, but you're saying that happens to 717 00:45:56,100 --> 00:46:00,400 you all the time he said. And then he shared something 718 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:05,300 else with me, I like to go to a car dealership when they're 719 00:46:05,300 --> 00:46:09,200 closed because I hate getting hit by all the dealers right. 720 00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:10,500 Right. So when the clothes I can 721 00:46:10,500 --> 00:46:14,300 actually walk around and look at cars I've done that hundred 722 00:46:14,300 --> 00:46:18,700 sometimes. He told me when he goes to a 723 00:46:18,700 --> 00:46:23,300 closed car, dealership never fails please. 724 00:46:23,300 --> 00:46:25,000 Pull up and ask him what he's doing. 725 00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:28,400 You know what? For the first time in my entire 726 00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:32,700 life, it hit me. Wow, this is real. 727 00:46:32,900 --> 00:46:36,900 I have never seen it. I just want to say to the white 728 00:46:36,900 --> 00:46:39,900 guys out there who are still questioning this. 729 00:46:40,300 --> 00:46:43,100 Talk to your black friends, man and ask Them. 730 00:46:43,300 --> 00:46:47,000 What it's like to be black and and I guarantee you'll be blown 731 00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,300 away. Thank you, Mark for sharing 732 00:46:50,300 --> 00:46:55,400 that. Thanks Mark, bye-bye, you know, 733 00:46:55,800 --> 00:47:05,900 I'm glad marks that one of the things when my boys were young, 734 00:47:07,300 --> 00:47:10,700 we would raise them to be cautious of the places that they 735 00:47:10,700 --> 00:47:15,700 went to always have something in the pocket to never go into 736 00:47:15,700 --> 00:47:19,400 department stores or any store without any money in their 737 00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:24,500 pocket because they were always looked upon as someone that was 738 00:47:24,500 --> 00:47:27,700 about to take something. And that starts with me as a 739 00:47:27,700 --> 00:47:31,000 young boy, and my boys did are now in their 30s. 740 00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:37,100 And and now when this evolved, when these incidents that That 741 00:47:37,100 --> 00:47:39,200 have happened in our country evolved. 742 00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:43,400 They were Christian men, that would call me up and would say, 743 00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:46,500 I had to have a long conversation with my teenage 744 00:47:46,500 --> 00:47:49,500 son. Even Pastor qian who has a 745 00:47:49,900 --> 00:47:57,200 two-year-old was concerned about preparing the Sun for instances 746 00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:01,300 such as what, Mark described of his of his friend who happened 747 00:48:01,300 --> 00:48:08,100 to be black. again I almost checked out I did check out in 748 00:48:08,100 --> 00:48:13,700 our meeting today because I Revisited that him today because 749 00:48:13,700 --> 00:48:19,400 it shouldn't be necessary but in 2020 we were still having to 750 00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:23,700 deal with the same issues guys and and and gyves this isn't 751 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:28,300 above God, but if God is in our heart, we need to be concerned 752 00:48:28,300 --> 00:48:32,800 about that because it's hurting People. 753 00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,100 It is, I want to address this really quickly, I'm glad it's a 754 00:48:36,100 --> 00:48:39,300 text question, but considering where we are. 755 00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:40,900 Here's something that just came in. 756 00:48:40,900 --> 00:48:44,000 I'll read it verbatim. I've wondered why the Bible 757 00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:46,500 doesn't seem to address the race issue. 758 00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:50,000 And then now we have a two thousand year history of racism, 759 00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:56,500 in the name of Christianity, the Bible, 1 million percent, 760 00:48:56,600 --> 00:49:02,600 addresses race, and race issues and division based upon 761 00:49:03,300 --> 00:49:08,300 ethnicities and languages and appearances and I'll just give 762 00:49:08,300 --> 00:49:12,300 you a few examples, and I'm going to just say because you 763 00:49:12,300 --> 00:49:16,200 put your name to it, that this is a genuine question because it 764 00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:20,000 could be perceived as a, not a genuine question to think that 765 00:49:20,300 --> 00:49:23,500 as a student of the Bible that you you would think that the 766 00:49:23,500 --> 00:49:27,500 Bible doesn't address address race, but you'll remember there 767 00:49:27,500 --> 00:49:31,400 was a great division between the Samaritans and the Jews based 768 00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:33,800 upon Race. You'll remember that. 769 00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:38,400 There was a great difficulty between Paul and Peter based 770 00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:43,200 upon race and partiality, you'll remember that there was a 771 00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:48,700 superiority by the religious rulers over everyone else and 772 00:49:48,700 --> 00:49:50,400 think about this division of race. 773 00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:54,400 It's the Jews and as the chosen people, which is a Biblical 774 00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:59,100 truth, but some rabbis taught that the Gentiles that means 775 00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:02,300 everyone else. It doesn't matter what, Country 776 00:50:02,300 --> 00:50:06,000 you're from everyone else that the Gentiles were there was 777 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:09,300 actually a rabbinic teaching that taught that the Gentiles 778 00:50:09,300 --> 00:50:15,000 were only made to fuel the fires of hell and and on a side note, 779 00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:20,200 alongside race would be the issues of demeaning women and 780 00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:25,200 the devaluing of women in the Biblical times and biblical 781 00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:29,300 culture. So I would say the Bible 782 00:50:29,300 --> 00:50:33,600 absolutely addresses race. The Bible does speak of there's 783 00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:38,300 neither Jew, nor Greek, neither slave nor free the Bible. 784 00:50:38,300 --> 00:50:42,000 Speaking about in Christ, we are brothers in the Lord, the Bible 785 00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:46,900 has to identify the man-made divisions in order to remind us 786 00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:50,700 that there's unity in Christ. And, and so, this is nothing 787 00:50:50,700 --> 00:50:54,200 new. This has been an issue from the 788 00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:58,200 very beginning, only jumped in from the New Testament, but 789 00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:04,100 there is no. There is no newness to it, it's 790 00:51:04,100 --> 00:51:07,500 always been the heart of man to divide the, you know, and then 791 00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:11,100 and the devil loves to divide. And so as you're listening to 792 00:51:11,100 --> 00:51:16,100 the program I want, I want to invite you into the lives of 793 00:51:16,100 --> 00:51:19,600 those, that we've had the chance to hear from invite you from. 794 00:51:19,700 --> 00:51:24,000 I mean, Avon Avon is, and all the men that I've had here are 795 00:51:24,300 --> 00:51:28,500 good friends of mine that I would trust them with my life. 796 00:51:28,500 --> 00:51:30,700 I would trust them with my A family. 797 00:51:31,300 --> 00:51:34,400 And yet, we're also crop. We're in the same room together, 798 00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:39,400 and, and I'm listening and a brother across the room is 799 00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:42,200 hurting. I mean, real hurt, they're not 800 00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:46,200 with, it's not contrived, it's not made-up, it's not, it's not 801 00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:50,600 pity, it's not feel sorry for me, it's not anything that we 802 00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,100 might want to make it. It's a brother that has a memory 803 00:51:53,100 --> 00:51:56,000 of having a sit-down with his son and say, look son. 804 00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:59,700 When you go into the market, make sure you have money in your 805 00:51:59,900 --> 00:52:02,100 Kit. Because if you're asked what 806 00:52:02,100 --> 00:52:05,100 you're here for, and you say I'm here to buy something for my mom 807 00:52:05,100 --> 00:52:08,100 for Mother's Day and you don't have any money in your pocket, 808 00:52:08,100 --> 00:52:10,900 you're immediately going to become a suspect, you're 809 00:52:10,900 --> 00:52:13,000 immediately going to be considered a liar. 810 00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,800 Even if you went in to say, you were just looking for things for 811 00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:20,800 your mom, there may be a tendency that they won't believe 812 00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:25,100 you because of the way you look. So put money in your pocket 813 00:52:25,100 --> 00:52:28,800 dollar bills have some money so that if they ask you, you'll 814 00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,600 have one more piece of Of evidence to prove to you. 815 00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:34,100 That you're an upstanding citizen and that's just the 816 00:52:34,100 --> 00:52:36,700 facts. We could respond to go. 817 00:52:36,700 --> 00:52:38,300 I don't know. It's never happened to me like 818 00:52:38,300 --> 00:52:41,200 like Mark said, but man, it's happened to a lot of our 819 00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:45,300 friends, and if we would just ask, I've never been, I've 820 00:52:45,300 --> 00:52:47,900 never, I've had the police called on me many times before I 821 00:52:47,900 --> 00:52:53,600 got saved because I deserved it. I haven't as a 50 year old man. 822 00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:57,800 I haven't had someone called the police on me for washing my 823 00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:02,200 windows in my Hood Ever or climbing the fence, you know, I 824 00:53:02,207 --> 00:53:06,500 hopped the fence on my in my neighborhood to get some more 825 00:53:06,500 --> 00:53:09,000 oil instead of walking around, I'll hop the fence. 826 00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:12,000 I've never had anybody call the police on me for hopping the 827 00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,400 fence in my neighborhood, or walking the park in my 828 00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:21,100 neighborhood or, and so the, the goal for us in these 829 00:53:21,100 --> 00:53:25,900 conversations Is for you just to hear another perspective. 830 00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,100 Yes. And and these are perspectives 831 00:53:28,100 --> 00:53:30,900 that need to be heard. Somebody asked me, you know, if 832 00:53:30,900 --> 00:53:34,000 he changed the show. Well yeah, yeah, I guess I have 833 00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:35,800 changed the show for a time being. 834 00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:40,100 We need to address like we need to walk into this and not allow 835 00:53:40,100 --> 00:53:44,300 the media to Define it for us. Not allow our preconceived ideas 836 00:53:44,300 --> 00:53:47,600 to Define it for us, but let's talk to people that are living 837 00:53:47,700 --> 00:53:51,500 in the 21st century in black skin. 838 00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:54,400 And let's just hear him. My brothers in the lord, they're 839 00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:58,900 my brothers. We Are One in Christ and and I'm 840 00:53:58,900 --> 00:54:01,400 I've been encouraged. I'm learning and growing so I 841 00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:03,000 could be more effective with the gospel. 842 00:54:04,100 --> 00:54:08,600 Did you have a scripture? I did, but I want to go back to 843 00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:12,300 what you just said, you know, when you asked me today, if I 844 00:54:12,300 --> 00:54:17,300 wanted to do this, I was apprehensive and then when you 845 00:54:17,300 --> 00:54:21,700 shared about some people are coming at my pastor. 846 00:54:22,300 --> 00:54:26,400 And and when I heard that, I didn't, I didn't want them to do 847 00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:31,600 this show, guys. I basically, you know, if people 848 00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:38,300 feel that way about this man who I love if they feel like that 849 00:54:38,300 --> 00:54:43,300 because of a show because of a conversation, didn't, I didn't 850 00:54:43,300 --> 00:54:47,600 want to do this show but He stood up and said we're going to 851 00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:53,700 do it. Just because and so I wanted to 852 00:54:53,700 --> 00:54:57,700 read the scripture in John, first, John. 853 00:54:58,700 --> 00:55:05,900 And in this has been my heart. whoever confesses that Jesus is 854 00:55:05,900 --> 00:55:13,300 Lord, is, Son of God, God abides in him and he in God, So we have 855 00:55:13,300 --> 00:55:16,800 come to know and to believe the love that God has had for us. 856 00:55:17,100 --> 00:55:20,800 God is love and whoever abides in love abides, in God, and God 857 00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:26,300 abides and God abides in him by this, by this is love perfected 858 00:55:26,300 --> 00:55:29,000 within us so that we may have confidence for the day of 859 00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:33,500 judgment because as he is. So also are we in the world? 860 00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:36,600 There's no fear in love, but perfect love, cast out, fear. 861 00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:40,200 So good. Yeah, well we're already at the 862 00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:42,500 end of the show event. You have any final thoughts 863 00:55:42,500 --> 00:55:45,300 besides that? Scripture that you got about a 864 00:55:45,300 --> 00:55:48,100 minute that you could share with the audience with share with me. 865 00:55:48,300 --> 00:55:52,300 Hey guys, I just want to say if I could say anything for what, I 866 00:55:52,300 --> 00:55:55,400 see, if it was my personal opinion, it would be. 867 00:55:56,500 --> 00:56:00,900 We get we should get back to the basics and go back to God's word 868 00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:04,400 and you are always welcome at any color. 869 00:56:04,900 --> 00:56:07,800 You're always welcome at Calvary Chapel Calvary. 870 00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:10,000 Church, Colorado. Whatever our name is, these 871 00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:11,900 days. We had like 20,000. 872 00:56:11,900 --> 00:56:14,400 I just wanted to know a pastor at. 873 00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:16,100 We love you. I love you. 874 00:56:16,100 --> 00:56:19,400 I thank you for allowing me to come into this studio and share 875 00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:22,800 time with you and very appreciative of you in our 876 00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,200 friendship. Well, I appreciate, I know this 877 00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:28,100 wasn't easy for you and I know you didn't come in thinking this 878 00:56:28,500 --> 00:56:33,800 but having what you shared with us as a team, as you do with 879 00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:37,400 from that place of maturity, I felt like, you know, I think 880 00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:40,400 this would be a A good addition to these conversations that 881 00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:44,100 we're having because as we've had this is our fifth one. 882 00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:48,100 There's so many different perspectives from very strong, 883 00:56:48,100 --> 00:56:51,700 Godly men and from your maturity, your experience. 884 00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:56,000 I'm sure that we could go on with episode after episode and 885 00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:59,100 how your thinking has changed. But I know that what you share 886 00:56:59,100 --> 00:57:00,700 today is what God wanted us to hear. 887 00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:05,200 It's what God wants to add to us so that we might be more 888 00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:07,300 effective. And and what God's brought me 889 00:57:07,300 --> 00:57:09,800 back to him. Simplicity is how Jesus summed 890 00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:12,800 up the law for us. You love the Lord God with all 891 00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:16,700 your heart, soul and mind and the practical application of 892 00:57:16,700 --> 00:57:18,800 that as we love our neighbor. Yes. 893 00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:22,400 And what did Mi say Mi said? We have a way of making sure 894 00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:25,200 that we label people. So they aren't our neighbors 895 00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:28,700 anymore and we don't have to love them and that's not the 896 00:57:28,700 --> 00:57:29,800 heart of God. No. 897 00:57:31,100 --> 00:57:33,900 Thank you for joining us for this episode of lead, to serve 898 00:57:33,900 --> 00:57:37,200 with Pastor Ed, Taylor, a leadership podcast from Calvary 899 00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:39,600 Church in Aurora. Colorado, if you have a 900 00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:42,400 leadership question, you want to hear answered on a future lead 901 00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:46,400 to serve podcast, please email it to Pastor Ed at Calvary Co 902 00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:50,300 dot church and if you like our podcasts Please Subscribe rate 903 00:57:50,300 --> 00:57:53,500 or review us on iTunes and share us with your friends on social 904 00:57:53,500 --> 00:57:55,800 media. Thanks again for joining us and 905 00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:58,500 we'll see you next time right here on the lead to serve 906 00:57:58,500 --> 00:57:32,300 podcast. Thank you for joining us for 907 00:57:32,300 --> 00:57:35,600 this episode of lead, to serve with Pastor Ed, Taylor, a 908 00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:38,100 leadership podcast from Calvary Church in Aurora. 909 00:57:38,100 --> 00:57:40,800 Colorado, if you have a leadership question, you want to 910 00:57:40,808 --> 00:57:44,400 hear answered on a future lead to serve podcast, please email 911 00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:48,100 it to Pastor Ed at Calvary Co dot church and if you like our 912 00:57:48,100 --> 00:57:52,100 podcasts Please Subscribe rate or review us on iTunes and share 913 00:57:52,100 --> 00:57:54,000 us with your friends on social media. 914 00:57:54,300 --> 00:57:57,100 Thanks again for joining us and we'll see you next time right 915 00:57:57,100 --> 00:57:59,300 here on the lead to serve podcast.